Sunscreen And Vaseline

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I'm Jane Marie, and this is the dream.

The beauty industry is a scam.

That's That's our show.

Thanks for listening.

We'll see you here next week.

No, but really, kind of feels like a scam, doesn't it?

Like, you'll see ads online for some lotion that has COCLMAL and then their patented ingredient in it.

And they're like, 97% of the people who use this on their skin report reaching total enlightenment.

But right next to it, there's a product that's the exact same kind of product, but it's like, Seokonophylanamanal is gonna kill you and your children and your dog that's for my dog people

it's really hard to tell what's real and what's not what'll kill you and what won't what works to make you look and feel beautiful and what doesn't i don't know i find myself getting so confused and overwhelmed that i just ask for free samples of everything everywhere at every store and a lot of times they give them to you and that's a hot tip from me

but then i don't use them and then i just use vaseline and call it a day.

Back when I was a beauty reporter, I would get some samples, but they would be for anti-aging stuff.

And I'd think to myself, do I need to use this for 10 years and then write the article?

Doesn't make any sense.

Anyway, I've always wanted to talk to someone inside the industry about what's a scam and what isn't.

Which ingredients are actually good or bad or helpful or harmful?

And how much should I pay for them?

And do I actually need any of it?

Or can I save my money and let sunshine and stress do all the work?

Today's guest is that person.

I am Charlotte Palermino.

I live in New York City, Brooklyn, to be specific.

I co-founded a skincare company about five, six years ago, and we launched and we're now in 600 Sephoras, which is a crazy thing to say.

And in that journey, I know.

And in that journey, my co-founder, who's a cosmetic chemist with over a decade of experience, she completely changed my mind on what I thought I knew about beauty.

And this was after having worked in women's media for about a decade.

And so it's been a huge education launching a brand, but doing it transparently and actually following science versus marketing and trends that really do work for conversion into sales.

Whoa.

Okay, great.

And I'm an aesthetician and I'm an aesthetician.

So that's fun.

I like touching people's faces.

Tell me more about your background before you started your company.

So I worked at big publications like Hearst.

I worked at small blogging networks like Say Media.

You know, I was really solidly in publishing and I started in branded content, which then turned into growth hacking, which then turned into me actually doing editorial.

What in the hell is growth hacking?

I'm so sorry I was part of this movement.

Do you remember BuzzFeed and how their headlines would just go absolutely viral because they would play on people's emotions?

Yes.

So what we would do is that we would take a headline, we would see how it performed from like a data perspective, and then we would basically continue to iterate on, say, headline, image selects, clips, anything to get more clicks and views and time spent so that people could consume more advertising.

And I got really good at writing headlines and figuring out how to put words together to get people to engage on the internet.

That I then just started writing the articles.

And so that's how I got into editorial.

And then I launched Snapchat Discover at Cosmo.

And so then I actually worked at Snapchat for two and a half years.

I worked in 2016 on launching just purely political channels on Snapchat.

That really burned me out in 2016.

And so I realized I wanted to work in physical product because I saw where publishing was going.

Yeah.

So I didn't know what I wanted to make, but I knew that I did not want to make a digital product, aka content, which is ironic because now all I do is make digital content, but to sell physical products.

So here's the trap that literally everyone operating into today's society is in.

But I really wanted to create a product and a brand that would start to undo the harms that I was seeing happening real time, particularly around misinformation.

The beauty to anti-vaxxer pipeline is very strong.

And I think what's really interesting is what we see as very innocuous consumption habits, right?

Like, oh, I just don't want to eat seed oils or, oh, sunscreen is actually toxic because, you know, the FDA asked for more information, therefore it's evil, right?

Like you keep seeing these things that are actually based around consumption.

Typically, you know, especially when it comes to beauty, it's not really seen as impactful because, oh, it's just women's stuff, you know, it's not really important.

It's just vanity.

I just saw people start to become extremely radicalized, almost like how if you engage like a piece of Fox News content on Facebook, all of a sudden, like you can just find yourself becoming like a full-blown QAnoner.

And so because I worked in media for so long, I clocked it very early on.

And so I wanted to find a partner who was a cosmetic chemist or somebody with a deep science background because I don't have these.

I'm not, I'm not a woman in STEM.

I'd love to be,

but I wanted somebody who was in STEM so that they could help me navigate all of this, but also make incredible formulas and just show people what science can actually do for your skin.

Because at the end of the day, there is a limit to what skincare can do, but your skin is an organ and you absolutely can deliver ingredients to it on the surface of the skin to like literally manipulate it histologically.

Like you can definitely generate collagen, you can definitely moisturize, you can reverse hyperpigmentation, but there's a limit to what cosmetics are going to do.

Then there's drugs, then there's dermatological interventions, right?

But just helping people navigate all of that and not make them feel stupid because I fell for a lot of the non-toxic

beauty stuff when I was first starting out in the industry, particularly when I was working at women's media.

Tell me about what you fell for and when.

Like, how old were you when you first started getting interested in like what does this stuff actually do?

So my grandmother, my Memi,

she lives in France.

Starting kids early on skincare and avoiding the sun like the plague is really, you know, important.

So my grandmother, extremely fair, and she got sunburned once in her life and she was like, I'm allergic to the sun.

That's what a sunburn is.

She never went in the sun again.

And when I tell you, my grandmother has impeccable skin and she's never done anything other than use Nivea.

It's because of her habits.

She doesn't smoke.

She'll drink, but she'll always put an ice cube in it.

Like she is our health queen.

Just to water down the drink?

Yeah, but that's how she drinks water because she doesn't trust water because she says it rusts your insides.

Listen, she's also not a woman in STEM, but she

gets her water from ice cubes and water.

But she's just so common sense.

Yes, that's where she gets all of her water.

She thinks people drink too much water.

But the thing is that she's just very common sense about things, you know?

except it's like she's like except except for that well i mean my sister who's a veterinarian is like actually i'm like you know what all of you i can't listen to any of you i'm drinking water i'm thirsty

but it's a very common sense approach where she's like you just sleep you don't go in the sun and you just have habits that don't make you unhealthy therefore your skin isn't going to age as quickly because your skin is a large largely impacted by your genetics and so the first skincare product that i ever used was nivea i was nine My grandmother just told me to use it every single night because I have chronically dry skin.

Which is just a moisturizer, correct?

It's just a moisturizer.

And it's also, I feel like it has,

it's the best dupe from Le Mer, correct?

Exactly.

But the internet, the bloggers will tell you that it is the most toxic product out there because it has paraffin wax and petrolatum and fragrance and they're hiding ingredients from you in fragrance and like all this nonsensical stuff.

Slow down, slow down.

You know so much more about this than the average person.

So I want us to just make sure.

So I'll go back to the origin story.

So I was in university and I was using my Nivea and my friend comes into my bathroom and is like, I cannot believe you would be using gasoline on your face.

And I'm looking at her and I'm like, I'm pretty sure this is Nivea.

And she was like, no, it has this.

toxic ingredient called petrolatum and that's gasoline.

And so I freaked out.

I ended up buying Dr.

Haushka, which if anyone remembers that brand, it's like what Madonna was purported to use.

It's so expensive.

It's so expensive.

I was so not of the budget to be buying it.

Like I was like choosing meals in this cream and it had a ton of essential oils in it.

So I started developing a rash.

And when I went to like my friend and I was like, hey, this thing's giving me a rash.

She's like, no, no, it's your skin purging all of the toxins from the years of using that petrol atom.

And so I kept using it and using it and using it until I was hanging out at my friend's house and her mother is a dermatologist and she looks at me and she pulls me aside and she was like, you have a really bad case of perioral dermatitis.

You need to stop using everything with essential oils and fragrances.

You need to stop using anything rich and heavy.

You can't use any skincare, just use this prescription.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

What's perioral dermatitis?

It's actually becoming increasingly common.

It's I think I have it right now is why I'm asking you.

It's basically a muzzle rash is the best way i can say i call it my muzzle but it's like around your nose around your mouth and it's like weird it looks like a like the unholy baby of like rosacea and eczema it's like scaly can sometimes have little bumps but it's basically a lot of people like will say oh it's like retinol and you know exfoliants which are um they're called keratolytics they basically increase cell turnover but you know, there's a whole other side of the dermatology world that it's like, no, it's because you're using things that your skin doesn't like, like fragrances or essential oils, which are natural fragrances, but natural fragrances, the gag is because they have so many components in it, because plants are very complex, they actually cause more allergic reactions than synthetic fragrances.

So,

natural fragrances are actually far more irritating for your skin.

And like, half the time, they aren't even doing the proper testing to see if there's like heavy metals in it.

So, I could go on a full rant about essential oils.

And so, um, that was kind of my first foray into like non-toxic beauty and the idea of like dirty chemicals, you know, lingering in your products.

It was, you know, my Nivea cream to Dr.

Haushka to a dermatologist really sitting me down and basically telling me, do not fall for this.

Like, do not go down this path.

Cause I think she was starting to see it a lot in her practice.

And this was in like 2011.

And so now we're 2025, so 14 years later.

Yeah.

So you, you started thinking about your skincare differently

very differently and i was working with mormon mommy bloggers in 2012 and they were all talking about this the same thing that my friend was telling me oh the essential oils will purge the toxins out of your skin and i'm like oh my god all these people with rashes thinking that they're

toxins being purged by these poor people

So what was your next step?

Oh, I went straight.

So in terms of like my habits, I just completely ignored everything that influencers were saying.

And I went straight down the La Roche-Pose, boring French pharmacy skincare.

And my skin totally thrived.

And because I was working in women's media, I was seeing so much misinformation being published, right?

Like you would get a source, like a brand source to say something for an article, right?

Because when you get it, when you write an article, you typically have anywhere between three to five sources.

And there would usually be somebody from the industry.

And they would always be spouting misinformation, which would always be the headline instead of what like the dermatologist was saying.

If that was.

The headline would be, Nivea has gas in it.

Don't put it on my face or whatever.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And so as we saw more and more people just not getting past the headline, I'm like, oh, like we are red pilling people in the wrong direction.

If you wouldn't mind, could we go down a list of products that are not well understood by people people, or maybe

villainized.

Yeah.

From an ingredient standpoint, I would say that chemical sunscreens have been villainized.

Chemical sunscreens or organic filters are basically ingredients that, just like zinc, will absorb UV radiation, right?

So there's mineral sunscreens like zinc and titanium dioxide, and then you have chemical sunscreens like homo salate, octocryaline, avobenzone.

And there's been a lot of misinformation about these sunscreen filters where people say that, oh, mineral sunscreen is the only safe option, which just really is not true.

I heard just today on the House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing on how the FDA is going to run moving forward with all the job cuts that are happening, right?

So it's basically imploding is what the gist of it is.

Chemical sunscreens, even in that hearing, had so much misinformation being thrown around.

And so it's that's one example of things that are really misunderstood.

The percentage in which you should use these ingredients is what's up for debate, right?

Because, for example, a lot of people hear that Europe is like this paragon of safety.

Europe allows all of these chemical sunscreens.

None of them are banned.

They're just allowed to be used in different percentages, right?

So it's again, it's like instead of getting into the nuance, it's far more popular on the internet to just demonize something and to tell people that companies and the government are trying to kill you.

And so I have the solution, right?

It's a very similar sales pitch that you you see kind of across all of the different products.

So another example would be parabens.

Parabens are preservative systems that are used in cosmetics.

They have been very, very demonized by the industry, despite the fact that methylparaben is a natural preservative found in many berries, like blueberries.

You eat parabens every single day, yet we act like putting it in skincare is going to kill you.

And what's happened now in the U.S.

is that we have this ridiculous conversation where we're taking out parabens and we're replacing it with preservative systems that we actually don't even know are safe.

And so it's like this, this cycle that we go down where we keep taking out ingredients, because that's the real scam to me in a lot of these like non-toxic beauty movements is that it's all about taking things out of your skincare versus talking about like how to make your skincare better by putting something in there.

Right.

And so it's just, it's a, it's like, um, I did poli sci as one of my one of my minors in university.

And I was like, it feels like nuclear deterrence, where it's like an arms race of how many free from claims you can, you know, accumulate.

And so that's really how I feel about a lot of these ingredients.

It's a misunderstanding of the ingredient and the complexity of an ingredient.

You said the free from lists, but that's like on the back of a bottle of shampoo, right?

Where it's like paraben-free,

silicone-free.

Silicone-free, vegan.

I don't know, Jane.

There's now a lot of beef tallow out there and so you don't want some cow tallow what the hell is that about um again it is another like beauty to conservative pipeline it is wild to me so my mother actually used to use beef tallow it's actually a european thing i want to say um and just a little piece of history so european settlers when they came to the united states they used beef tallow on open wounds to help them heal and then they learned about what native americans were doing with petrolatum.

So the first recorded use in Western history of petrolatum is actually with Native American tribes in Pennsylvania.

And so you know where Vaseline was created.

Vaseline is petrolatum.

Exactly.

Vaseline is petrolatum.

But where did that brand get its idea from?

The oil fields in Pennsylvania.

Okay.

Because basically the workhands were using, it's called rod wax.

When you're extracting oil from the the ground, there's a waxy buildup that happens.

And so they would use that on their cuts and wounds.

And so it's just interesting that there's so much history from Native Americans to then the oil fields in the 1800s of using the byproducts of the fossil fuel industry for wound care.

And so for me, it's like with the beef tallow people, I'm like, it's just

irritating and it goes rancid much more quickly than vasoline.

It's just not,

I don't,

it's again, a miracle.

It's like selling you a miracle and at best it's a mid moisturizer right you know right it's like not the devil it's not evil it's not toxic it's not any of those things but i'm like it's so mid like i just don't i'll never understand

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I do want to say before we move on, I

grew up in a Vaseline household and I have a Vaseline household.

And Dan can attest to this that I am addicted to Vaseline, not addicted.

I just like it more than everything else.

Well, it's because it is the most effective, it's like literally the most effective

ingredient to slow transepidermal water loss, which when your skin is dry, it's because you have a lot of cracks in your skin and because your skin doesn't have a lot of oil on it.

So you're literally evaporating from your body.

And so petrolatum, it seals it.

It seals it at 99% because you still want that 1% breathability for wound repair.

You can completely seal it.

It suffocates it.

Yeah.

Okay, so silicones, dimethicone.

This is another one that people get very upset about because they're like, it's like putting plastic on your face.

But really, dimethicone is a very safe ingredient to use.

It's one of the best ingredients to use with acne.

But the thing is, is that because it's used in so many skincare products, some people do have a sensitivity to it.

So, you know, not everyone can use any ingredient.

And the other thing that people love to say about silicones is that it is terrible for the environment because it doesn't degrade.

But

it depends again, right?

Like silicones is like a category of like hundreds of different ingredients.

So there's maybe dimethicone, which is a D4.

It's like there's different categorizations for silicones.

So dimethicone, as an example, the European Union is like, this is a safe ingredient to use.

It is not bad for the environment because it breaks down organically.

So it's biodegradable.

And yet people still jump on it because there's other categories of silicones, which are called cyclic silicones, that do not break down in the environment.

And those are banned.

Those are going to be increasingly banned in Europe.

And so it's like in the United States, I just notice more so than in any other country

that we take a category and we demonize the whole thing.

And it's usually to sell you a more expensive alternative.

Right.

And so I get really wary.

Are silicones great for everyone in every situation?

No.

But does that mean that they're universally bad and that they should be banned and that the FDA doesn't care about us because they allow them in products also know, right?

It's like we're very black and white where when really it's it's just nuanced and it depends, but it depends is not a powerful marketing statement.

Exactly.

So

I would love to see that though on the back of a moisturizer bottle.

Well, it's actually on the back of Instant Angel.

We're like, listen, this isn't for everyone.

I love it.

That's one of your products.

Yes, yes.

We try nuance.

It's hard, though it's hard to compete in this attention economy when you're not using fear or shame which tend to be traditional levers in beauty what's that website where they tell parents to go to when when your babies are little kind of is it the is it the ew ewg yes can we talk about that for a little bit so yeah i mean the ewg is interesting i actually had a call with them last week environmental working group is that what it called yeah it stands for yes and it's really interesting because they actually seem to be really well intentioned They made a post the other two weeks ago about Jim Jones stepping down from,

was it the FDA?

And, you know, he had worked for years at the EPA, had so much research and, you know, had so much, you know, just experience and like, this is awful for the FDA.

And if you look at the comments, the EWG, they had this post and the comments were all like, you're part of the deep state.

You're trying to tell us that the FDA is good.

You've been telling us for decades that the FDA is not protecting us.

And they were just baffled.

They're like, no, we think there should be more regulation.

And I was like, well, here's the thing.

So when candidates run on change, right, you could have Bernie Sanders, which is very much so about more regulation, or you can get a Trump candidate where they're like, burn it all to the ground and replace it with nothing.

Either way, you're playing to people's fears and anger.

And so we got the Trump end of the stick.

And so now we are in this world where we're actually deregulating everything, which is going to make things so much more unsafe.

But it's going to be packaged as safer by Robert Kennedy.

Exactly.

And so the EWG was horrified, but I was trying to explain to them that when you tell them that things are toxic and that the FDA is not taking any action on it, and the reason the FDA is not taking action on parabens, for example, is because they're safe.

You know what I mean?

It's like you've created fears that aren't real.

And it's worth exploring.

I'm always want to say that.

It's like, oh, there's a concern.

Like the science changes, right?

Science is not something that's immobile.

If there's a safety concern, let's look into it.

But when something has been proven over and over and over again, it is just bad faith to then ask for more research.

It's exactly what's happening with vaccines and autism right now.

This has been debunked.

This has been debunked

for years.

And yet.

It is just such a bad faith argument.

What is happening now is that there's quote unquote more research being done by RFK so that he can prove out his thesis.

That's not science.

Science is having a hypothesis, not having your answer before you start the research.

And so I think that with the EWG, I'm hoping to see a lot of changes from them because they're quite a powerful organization.

But I think that they've been a huge destabilizing force in terms of miseducating people on what to actually focus on for more safe products.

I only looked into them for a hot second when I was pregnant.

I went to

this,

it was was a mommy group, like a,

but we sat around with birth coaches and doulas and midwives asking all the questions about how to, you know, make sure our babies are healthy.

And everyone was really into the environmental working groups app and looking everything up on there.

And I,

once we got into the area of like, you have to replace all of your garden hoses because they might have lead in them, I quit.

I was just like, I'm going to have a baby.

Do you think that that's not stressful enough?

Like, how am I supposed to, whatever?

It's actually how they get you.

It's, it's this kind of movement usually gets women in particular when they are pregnant because you're vulnerable, you're scared, you have a lot of pressure being put on you because anything you do might hurt the baby.

And so it's a really easy way to prey on women when there actually isn't that much data.

Like even if you want to look at retinol, retinol, vitamin A, it's a very well-studied ingredient that helps with collagen production, with actually compacting your stratum cornea.

It gives you this like very glossy, glass-like skin.

Retinol is a miracle ingredient.

It strengthens your skin on an incredible level.

And so what's fascinating is that that's an ingredient that has been demonized by platforms like the Environmental Working Group.

For what?

Because vitamin A toxicity and because it's not safe to use when pregnant.

But there's a big asterisk there because the only tests on pregnancy were done on oral isotretinoin.

So, actual ingested vitamin A, right?

So, the vitamin A that you're eating.

So, it's not a one-to-one for topical retinol application.

But as we're seeing from Texas right now, I don't know if you read, but all the children that are being rushed to the hospital with all the measle complications, they're also finding that they have liver damage from vitamin A toxicity because their parents are overdosing them on vitamin A.

So, for me, this is such a full circle moment into how these platforms actually just push you away from science.

And you're probably like, you'd be better off just slathering yourself head to toe when you're pregnant in retinol than overdosing your kid on a vitamin A supplement.

Right.

It's driving me crazy.

I'm like, the retinol thing is like, I will never let it go.

I was like, the crunchy mamas told you to stop using it.

And now they're overdosing their children on vitamin A instead of just getting the measles vaccine.

I've lost it.

So there's like a lot of different things.

It's like very hard to find skincare that works if you're not going with like the dermatology type brands

or if you're just using, just use simple skincare if you're confused, right?

Like that's my thing.

I'm like, don't get complicated because much easier to get scammed.

What's that cheapy shortcut version you're just talking about?

Can you just tell our audience?

Like K-Beauty, for example.

Like people talk about K-Beauty.

It's so amazing.

Korean beauty.

Yes, Korean beauty.

Why are they so into skincare, by the way?

I don't understand why that is the hub.

Crushingly high beauty standards.

Crushingly high beauty standards.

I,

the amount of plastic surgery ads I saw when I was there, I was like, do I get a facelift?

I was like, hmm.

What are you trying to tell me?

Like in Korea, they...

It's a very simple approach to skincare.

They're not big on, you know, complicated actives.

It's a lot of soothing ingredients.

It's really hard to fuck up a routine when you're doing Korean beauty or French beauty, for example.

French, it's boring beauty products, right?

They're simple, they're effective, but they aren't exciting.

Like the U.S.

has some spicy, good skincare, like amazing chemical peels,

a lot of moisturizers that have really great peptides in it that actually can firm the skin, right?

Like, there's a lot of spicier things in the United States, but for me, if you're just starting out, I would start with the basics, which would be French beauty or Korean beauty.

The one thing I would watch out for with Korean beauty is dusting, where you take a tiny bit of like Centella asiatica and you just sprinkle it in, and then all the marketing is around how this amazing soothing cream is like packed with this like ingredient.

And then I went to one of these contract manufacturers and I was like, oh, so how much do you put in there?

And they're like, oh, none.

It's for marketing.

None?

Just a sprinkling.

The tiniest, it's like the very bottom of the ingredient list.

I was like, wait, what?

And he's like, yeah, it's a very expensive ingredient.

We could never put it at a high enough amount and keep the product at this price.

And I'm like, cool.

So, what are the three things that you would like if someone was broke, but also wanted to have

improve their skin, what are the essentials?

I'll go with categories because

you love Vaseline, but it's not for everyone.

So I would start with a cleanser, especially if you live in a city because the air quality is disgusting and that does end up on your face and you want something gentle.

The next one would be an amazing sunscreen.

I love Korean sunscreens.

Those are excellent.

I also love French sunscreens, Spanish sunscreens, Australian sunscreens.

Even if you go to like Mexico, you can find fantastic sunscreens.

I would say just a sunscreen that you love and you can use every single day.

That's not going to break the bank.

And then the last thing I would say is a really great moisturizer, right?

So sunscreen during the day can replace your moisturizer.

And then at night, you can just use a different moisturizer.

So those would be the three things.

How do you feel about, so what I do is I kind of stack my sunscreen.

Like I have it, I make sure that there's SPF in every single thing I put on my face.

Yep.

Essentially.

is that a good idea or am I being stupid?

You're not being stupid, but it depends.

I'm like, it's literally the most, I am the most annoying person to answer these questions.

So it depends.

So if you are using chemical sunscreens with mineral sunscreens, you need to make sure that the zinc in the mineral sunscreen is coated because what can happen is that zinc can react with chemical filters and it can destabilize.

So

sunscreens are tough to stabilize.

And so you want to make sure that that zinc is coated and you're fine.

So how do I know?

You have to ask the brand and some brands won't tell you.

It's fucking annoying.

But it's also important to note that if you take an SPF 20 and then layer a 20 on top of it, you're not getting like SPF 40.

Right, right, right.

SPF 20.

Yeah, no, I just want to make sure it gets everywhere.

It's kind of my approach also to self-tanner is like, I do the spray and then I use the wipes and then I use the mitt.

Yeah.

Just so that I don't miss any spots.

But that's kind of what I'm thinking when I'm making sure it's in every.

That's a pro tip.

Oh, good.

Okay.

There you go, audience.

I'm not doing it to like double the strength.

I'm doing it to make sure that I hit all of the little spots that I got to.

Nooks and crannies.

Yeah, all the nooks and crannies.

So what's, oh, wait, what's my, what's my Korean sunscreen called?

It's the one on the white tube with the little, it's like black and white writing and it's very chic and beautiful and it blends in really well.

What the fuck is that brand called?

Beauty of Josun?

Yes, Beauty of Jo Sun.

Yep.

Do you like that one or no?

I adore that one.

I was actually just, I was with the founder the other day.

I love Beauty of Jo Sun.

Yes.

They're launching a U.S.

version.

The current one's not great.

They're trying to launch another one, but those

the great sunscreens from Beauty of Jo Sun, they are the ones that are with the international sunscreen filters.

So for those who don't know,

listening right now,

the last time an American sunscreen or a new sunscreen filter was approved in the United States was in the 1990s.

So we're about 30 years behind every other country.

And so the sunscreens that you find in Korea or in Japan or in Brazil or in France or Australia, they're all so much better.

Great.

And you make a sunscreen?

No?

Not yet.

No, we don't.

No, we're trying.

Okay.

Well, we're actually trying to lobby the government to approve these new filters, but because everything's just been like gutted, I we don't know what's happening.

It's crazy.

Oh, I know.

And I'm so sorry to inform you, but Biden passed, well, he put through the modernization of cosmetics regulation act.

So now it's going to be so much harder to get Korean sunscreens in the United States because they've been operating in technically an illegal market.

It's illegal to sell these sunscreens here.

And so, yes.

So I just am lucky that I found like the right shop in little Tokyo.

No, it's common in cities, but I just found out that my favorite gay gay beauty store, they are no longer going to be selling Beauty of Joe Suns soon.

So soon you're only going to be able to buy them online.

And that's until the FDA finds that and it'll probably close that loophole.

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Okay, a few dumb personal questions ready.

Le Mer.

Yes.

Why do I love it?

I mean, it's if you have money.

Why do I use it every single night?

Because it has, it has paraffin wax.

I don't know if the miracle, I don't know about that miracle broth.

I don't know how much they're using it, but the thing is, is like it's a well-formulated cream.

I think people get mad because of the price.

Like nobody gets mad about men buying like stupid cars.

A cream is much cheaper than a car.

I just don't understand the ire around it.

I don't either.

Well, I think the thing is like, well, you can find better moisturizers for less.

And I'm like, well, if you just like it, then you just like it.

Like, I don't really need to shit all over your cream, but do you need to buy it?

Are you missing out on something that will like, you know, is it a facelift?

No.

I got a free sample from, it wasn't even for me.

It was one of my coworkers got a free sample and she gave me the dregs.

And I, that was like 10 years ago.

And anytime I've tried to go off of it, I just, it doesn't, I don't feel good.

Like my skin feels really dry or I get broken out or whatever.

So I'm like, you know, small price to pay for like not having tons of acne.

And I just finally refilled.

I haven't been using it this past year.

And I finally got a refill like last week.

I gave Dan the gift with purchase collection.

He's, he's,

he's so excited about it.

But I, you know, once I get my night cream back, I'm just like, oh, yes, like it just feels, it feels better.

Exactly.

My skin feels better.

I'm not yucking people's yells.

Yeah.

It's a great, it's like, I'm sorry, but also paraffin wax, which is in there, it is

by far a better,

I guess you, you would call it an occlusive.

It's something that traps water in the skin.

It's far more effective than some of these like fancier ingredients, you know?

So I, I am not, I'm not a Le Mer hater.

I hate, I'm a Le Maire hater if you use it because you thought it was gonna like, you know, give you a facelift or if you felt like you had to buy it and you didn't pay your rent and you ought to have, that would be, that makes me, that makes me mad.

But like, like, if you like it, like, okay.

Yeah.

Some people buy expensive champagne.

Yeah.

Prosecco is also alcoholic.

I don't, why are we doing this?

Just because I like it.

Yeah.

So Dan's wondering,

is, is, um,

skincare genderless?

So yes and no, um, in the sense that there will be trends that you see with men.

Some people have a little bit oilier skin, right?

It's a little bit more common,

slightly thicker stratum corneum, which is the top layer of your skin, right?

You have your stratum corneum, then your dermis,

and then the subcutaneous fat layer, those three layers.

So there's like one layer that's like a little bit thicker.

But I would say that your melanation actually has a much larger bearing on how, what kind of skin products that you're going to want to be using and the issues that you are going to want to be addressing.

But there are, it's just the thing is, it's so variable by individual.

And so, do I think there needs to be a skincare line for just women and just men?

Like, not really.

It's really more about your concern.

So, if you have dry, like dry skin, for example, you're going to be reaching for a product that has a lot of like oils in it to replenish that dryness.

But if you have oily skin, you're going to be going for a lighter version of that.

And so, there doesn't, it's not you're going to be formulating it to specifically penetrate men's skin.

Dan, what was your next question?

Okay, so I have a couple more.

Okay.

The first one is: if you have oily skin,

are there certain ingredients to look out for to not use?

Okay, so fun fact: the skin types were invented by Helena Rubinstein, who basically made like one of the first beauty brands.

And so she is like a mother when it comes to beauty marketing.

Yes.

And so it's not actually based on dermatology.

But the thing is, great marketing is to contextualize what you should be buying.

Okay.

I have dry skin in New York and in parts of California.

I do not have dry skin in Louisiana.

I'm spending a lot of time there because my boyfriend's from New Orleans.

My skin is very

humidity.

It's the humidity.

You nailed it.

And so what I like to say is more like, what's your wardrobe?

Like, what are you going to wear for clothing is much more like it's going to help you kind of figure things out.

But if you have genetically oily skin, and some people do, right?

I go to New Orleans and my skin is fine.

It's just normal for once.

But if you have oily skin and you go to New Orleans, you are producing a lot of oil, right?

So what I would say is that, number one, think about the weather and the location on where you're going to be.

That's going to number one, determine what you're using.

But if you have very oily skin, right, where you're just like, feel like you're constantly wiping at your face,

for that, I would say like you probably don't want to be using things like Vaseline.

right you don't want to be using these heavy thick products that trap the oil exactly you're already producing enough.

Why are you, you're naturally making that.

You don't need store-bought oils.

You're naturally making them on your face.

Good for you.

Like, I wish I had oily skin because the investment in skincare would be less.

But I would say that there are certain ingredients that you should be looking for if you have really oily skin and you want to control it, right?

Like niacinamide is a great one.

It helps with oil production.

You can use certain exfoliants.

And then you can also use moisturizers that have like silicas in them to like mattify a little bit.

So there's tons of things that you can look for, but the only thing I would really avoid are things that tend to what you they call clog pores, but there's just like no, no need to add oil when you have naturally such an abundance.

Like what a beautiful thing.

Okay, so I just have one more question

because you're you're here and I'm oh Dan is just using you right now.

I know I feel that.

I feel that.

I'm sorry.

Tell me.

Tell me everything.

Is this a skin consult?

Do I turn?

Yes.

Do we turn the cameras on?

Yeah, no, turn your time around.

Turn your time around.

No, I shouldn't be asking.

No, you should.

Please, please.

You have to.

I must know.

Okay, okay.

So this is the beauty of Joe's

sunscreen.

Is if you like buy it on like Amazon or something.

Nope.

You don't buy anything on Amazon.

That's the one that you don't for sunscreen.

No, she does like that one.

Okay.

I do.

But I mean, you said

their current American formulation.

Okay.

So the Modernization of Cosmetic Regulation Act has made it so like that buying, if you buy an international sunscreen on Amazon, it's almost guaranteed that it is a fake.

And so the way that, you know, Walmart duped the Birken, we have so many companies that are duping Beauty of Joe Sun and then selling it as the same thing.

So I would be so careful, so, so careful buying any sunscreen that's international off of Amazon.

But if you go to the Beauty of Joe Sun verified store on Amazon, that's the American version.

But I don't even think...

And it's not as good.

Well, I don't even think you can buy it anymore because I think they're reformulating it because the reaction was not good to the sunscreen.

Okay.

I can get it for you, Dan, but I can't talk about how.

Yeah, we got to keep our sources secure.

Yeah, I'll get it on the blackboard.

Actually, actually, Dan, do you want to know where you can buy it online?

That's better.

Sure.

You can buy it from Yes Style.

You can buy it from Olive Young.

And you can buy it from Style Vanna.

For now, those all ship into the U.S.

And did I buy my favorite sunscreen right now is Isinox because it's water resistant.

But did I buy like 15 of these?

Yes, they are sitting in my closet.

I'm a stockpiler.

Not in the fridge.

Doomsday Prepper.

No, not in the fridge.

Doomsday Prepper for sunscreen.

Well, thank you so much for my beauty.

What else did you want to ask, Dan?

Seriously, you have a, you can.

No, that's pretty much it.

I was looking at something else.

I'm like looking at skincare products while we're talking about this because I'm.

I love it.

One of our first fights, one of our first fights regarding our kids.

So our kids are a year apart.

His daughter's a year older than mine.

And one of our first fights was when you wanted to put sunscreen on them at 4.30 p.m.

as the sun was going down.

Remember that?

I do not.

We were going to the park.

We were going to go to the playground.

And I was just like, oh, for fuck's sake.

I was so annoyed that you were like, whoop, everybody got to put your sunscreen on.

And it was like nighttime.

I love it.

Well, it was sunny.

Listen, the UV, UV index, there's an easy way to settle this.

Just look at the UV index at 430.

If it's above a three, slap it on.

Whoa.

Awesome.

Okay, now we know.

Yeah.

I do actually have one more, like, like, actual, not, not personal.

I love it.

Not a person.

I love it.

I love it.

But kind of personal because we could see that.

Oh, my gosh.

You want me to look at a mole?

You want me to look at a mole of yours?

The Gosh.

So my daughter's 13 and she's just starting to get into makeup and stuff.

And I don't really want to,

I don't know, I don't want to be overbearing about what she does and doesn't do because I'm, I don't know.

I just don't, I'm not trying to shame her for doing something or whatever.

So I can hear the discomfort in your voice and trying to articulate that.

Well, it's hard because she has like perfect skin and she was like wearing.

And they are trying to fuck it up.

Goldie's doing the same thing.

I caught her with concealer under her eyes the other day.

And I'm like, you are a porcelain doll.

Knock it off.

Literally.

So

my only question around that is

for adolescents

or

younger people, are there things in products?

Is it the same, like to look out for certain things and to look for other things?

Or is it different?

To add on to that question, Dan, so yeah, having like a preteen

daughter myself, you know,

it's very popular to get Hello Kitty's sheet masks at the moment.

And, you know, everyone's putting things in their stockings that are just like, I look at the ingredient list and I'm just like, what the fuck?

Like,

you do not need to be putting rubbing alcohol all over your perfect face.

Are there things that like younger folks should just, that they're doing in excess that they could just avoid?

I mean, honestly, it's like part of our philosophy as a brand is like you don't need to look at our brand until you hit your 30s

because there's just so little that you should be doing at these ages.

Um, I don't think there's anything necessarily dangerous, like you can get a rash, which isn't great.

Um, but the thing is that your skin has fully formed by that age, right?

There's a reason why with babies, you need to be very careful about what you put on their skin, but it's just because their skin hasn't fully formed as a barrier yet, right?

But by the time you're hitting puberty, you should have full oil production because oil actually protects your skin, right?

So having oily skin is great on many fronts.

But I would say it's like,

should a preteen be using retinol?

Not unless if a doctor is telling them to.

A lot of these creams might have some exfoliating ingredients in there or like vitamin C or like.

like you know retinol and it's just like that can actually sensitize their skin to the sun that's what i worry about

regularly i would really avoid I mean, like, foundation is pretty.

I mean, as speaking as a former 13-year-old, we all were former 13-year-olds.

I was doing stuff.

I was really into beauty when I was very young.

And what's funny is that I would go to Claire's and buy Claire's stuff.

And I don't know if you saw all the recalls recently from Claire's because of high, high amounts of lead contamination.

And so I'm laughing because I'm like, my mom should have taken me to CVS, but instead she made me get like contraband from Claire's.

And so I wouldn't say it's like bad, but I also would be careful because now they're doing the skinification of makeup where they're like hiding all these active ingredients and like blush and you're like, fuck.

Yeah.

Like just make, like, just make it simple.

So I would say you should be okay.

But I'm of the mindset of yours where I'm just like looking at these girls and I'm like, why are you doing?

a pore perfecting cream you you don't have pores yeah there are none

is are the pores are the pores in the room with us um dan do we have any more follow-up i was just gonna say say this is my favorite episode so far.

Is it because it just turned into a console?

Thank you so much, Dan.

Thank you, Charlotte.

The Dream is a production of Little Everywhere, and you can find Charlotte's products at do skin.com.

That's D-I-E, like dieuxskin.com.

This is not sponsored.

I just like her and want to make sure that you guys go buy stuff.

Okay.

See you next week.

Ready to elevate your skincare?

Introducing Medicaid, a clinically proven dermatologist-recommended British skincare brand known for age-defying results.

You may have heard about growth factors as the must-have anti-aging ingredient, and that's why Medicaid is excited about their latest innovation, the Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum.

This serum harnesses the power of Growth Factor Mini Protein, a cutting-edge technology that mimics natural growth factors but goes deeper, delivering visible, transformative results.

Studies show immediate improvement in expression lines in just 10 minutes and a significant decrease in deep set wrinkles after eight weeks of use.

The liquid peptides advanced MP Face Serum not only reduces wrinkles, but also gives a filler-like effect, smoothing out your skin's appearance dramatically.

Visit medicate.us.

That's M-E-D-I-K and the number 8.us.

Use code Podcast20 for 20% off your purchase today.

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