Dirty Dirty John

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It's thedream X, the letter X, Jane Marie.

See you over there.

I need verbal confirmation from you that you understand this is being recorded for potential use in the Dream podcast.

I am aware that this is being recorded.

I'm Jane Marie, and this is The Dream, a podcast that used to come out on Mondays, but now we're releasing on Thursdays.

My name is Tara Newell.

I am best known for being the survivor of Dirty John Mehan.

I fought against him and took his life in self-defense.

I now have started my own podcast, worked with survivors, and I also started a little side baking business recently too, because, you know, you just can never never do enough things well you need money i mean everyone has five jobs wait what's this baking business

um so i started to do like cakes and i'm not the greatest at it quite yet but i'm working and my cake pops are cool they look great like they're sellable but my cakes like the piping i'm still working on the piping a little bit

I met Tara at a party about a year ago and we were chatting it up and just talking about how we're both into podcasting.

Yeah, so I was a part of the Dirty John podcast.

I was, well, part of it.

I was the survivor who took him down in self-defense.

For those who aren't super into true crime, Dirty John was a wildly successful podcast about Tara's stepdad and how he conned her mom and attacked her.

So successful, it became a TV show starring Eric Banna and Connie Britton.

And then Roberta, our friend, was like, I have a friend that works on the podcast or didn't work on the podcast, but has a connection to the podcast.

And I was like, wait, what?

And then she said, you need to meet her.

We'll discuss in person.

So at that party in person, our mutual friend let me know who Tara was.

And after I gave my condolences, I somehow awkwardly managed to congratulate Tara.

And she was like, for what?

And I said,

uh,

for the success of the podcast and the TV show and the spin-off and the merch and probably what's going to be a movie or something someday and the whole legend of the Dirty John thing and just how you see it everywhere and the billboards and all that stuff.

And that's when she told me,

I had nothing to do with that.

I wasn't even aware there was going to be a podcast.

And I wasn't part of the TV production, really.

And that's when I basically started foaming at the mouth.

So the story is that Little Everywhere, our company was pitched

producing that podcast.

the Dirty John podcast six months or so before it became a thing.

Six months.

And I bet.

Yeah.

Oh, my goodness.

And we read over the materials and came back with an analysis of the story and said that the story is actually about you and your mom and not about this guy.

Like that you were the more interesting characters to us and that the story of

Forgive me if I say anything that offends you in this, okay?

No worries.

But like I have read through all the materials and stuff and listened to the show.

But we really thought it was a story about the women and kind of some generational trauma that happened in your family and those sorts of things.

And eventually we ended up like walking away from the

negotiations

and someone else made it, which is fine.

But

so I wanted to talk to you about how that show got made and how it, you know, became so popular and what your role is in that.

Is that okay?

Yeah, of course.

So talk to me about how it started.

So it started with I was attacked and then

little news outlets covered it, but they didn't mention my name at all.

And we had lawyers on everything.

And so like if anything came out with my name, like we were notified, but nothing did.

And so it was.

So you were remaining anonymous in this story?

Yes, because.

The stories that were out there were like knife welding man

stabs a girl, he dies, or

not even he dies because I don't even think he was like officially dead yet.

And just like

these crazy stories and little, little stories, but I just didn't like local Southern California newspapers or blogs or whatever.

Like the Orange County Register,

like another local news.

And

so it was weird to see that.

And I just didn't know if I wanted my story to be out there because it's a lot of trauma.

It's family trauma in a sense.

And then we were approached by the LA Times.

I believe it was Hannah Frye who wrote an article about it, but

it got back to Christopher Gothor.

And he is a news reporter for the LA Times,

not a news reporter.

He's he's a journalist for the LA Times.

And he reports on these bigger stories and then kind of turns them into series in a sense.

And it's kind of crazy that you say six months because I swear that we were approached probably like six months.

And so

to me, it had already been decided, or what?

Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, it just was decided that,

like, as soon as we said yes, we'll share and talk

that it was already being pitched for a podcast and

we were being told that it was a series of articles.

Well, when you let me know that, I was like, oh, God, I, but yeah, say more about that.

So it was supposed to be written articles.

Yeah, no, Christopher Gofford actually did a series of articles about this case where this, like about the pta or something

and uh this i'm like butchering the story but this was just like a given example of like what was to be done with ours and i checked it out a little bit i looked at okay like this is what it is it's a series of articles this is what they're gonna do we were also told by people too that the LA Times is going bankrupt, that the LA Times isn't doing good.

There was even like weird talk about would this article even come out and stuff

and because print is dying and so really minimizing what impact it might have on your life?

Yeah, and I mean Christopher Gofford he told me that people would probably reach out to me like the walking dead.

So that's what I was really hoping for is the walking dead to reach out to me.

But I wasn't expecting

this media.

Like he told me that people would probably reach out to me like maybe the walking dead would even reach out to me and basically like thank me or like

want to have me on the show or something

I need to provide a little more context here Tara is an actress doing mostly background work or being an extra that gets a little camera time.

She is from Southern California after all.

Okay, so when I defended myself against my stepdad, I killed him as if he were a zombie.

Like, I literally stabbed him in the eye, and that, like, to because I watched so much Walking Dead.

And so that was

he told me that, like, so people from the Walking Dead might reach out to me.

And I mean, a few actors

did, but they were, they they weren't the main characters.

It would have been really nice if Norman Ritas reached out to me, but that would have been great.

But part of his selling point, I just snorted laughed, part of the selling point for like participating in the interview process was, hey, maybe you'll get.

He didn't say this part.

This was like a few days before.

the podcast even came out.

Oh my God.

So that's the part that just shocked me that you didn't know

that you were participating participating in a podcast no

so let's back up a little and tell me the mechanics of that like how did that

like

how did you get on tape

so i remember meeting him first

at

houston's

the restaurant where John and my mom met for their first date.

I don't know

why, but I really just wanted to meet everyone at Houston's.

I really like Houston's.

I do too.

I'm a huge fan.

If they want to sponsor this podcast, come on, Houston's.

I love that.

Yeah, no, there's like a Houston's right by me.

And we went there, and that was where they had their first dates.

And it was just like an aesthetic.

I feel like I have all my important meetings there.

I like this.

Yes.

And then it was funny too, because Houston's, it's loud, it's a restaurant, there's stuff going on.

And we sit down to record.

I'm hyper-vigilant because it's not too far along from my trauma.

I also flew into

California because I was living in Austin at the time because I had to go to Austin just to get away and try to heal a little bit.

And that was even when we were approached.

He called my mom, asked my mom.

And I believe it's funny to me because I swear they use the same exact like phone call that they do in the TV show, the scripted TV show at the end where it's like Christopher Gofford.

And it's funny because he gets a cameo, but I was really fighting for a cameo.

And they gave me a background role, which I've done background.

many, many times.

And so that to me was just like, wait, what?

When the series came out, like he gets, and I like him as a person but I think now talking out loud this is really kind of shady and

well that's what struck me yeah when we talked about it a year ago is I thought wait a minute these aren't the rules of journalism

yes you know so okay so he approaches you and you're or the the newspaper approaches you and your mother and then you

have meetings with goffered and what happens next

so at the restaurant he decides to pull out a recorder and it's either a recorder like his phone because i

i want to just say it's a recorder because i want to say like old school journalism you always pull out that recorder but it's a mini mini cassette

thing yeah yes it may have just been his phone um my

memory is kind of blurry on that because I was also in such a hyper vigilant state and especially being in the restaurant, hearing things go off at the restaurant and then talking about the worst day of my life.

So

we're talking about it and he tells me that he just wants to record this so that he just like has everything for, you know, keepsakes basically and for record.

Right.

Which is typical of a print journalist to record something in audio.

Like that's normal.

Right.

Yeah.

And, you know, I've seen it with many many tv shows that's like a common thing so i'm not thinking anything wrong with this and then as time goes on there's many many phone calls with christopher he even goes with me to uh indio because i had a ticket actually because

after

the incident, I went out to stagecoach and I had John's handicat pass and I don't know know why but in my head I thought oh I could use it because now I'm kind of considered handicap

for you

things but I try to use it and I get a ticket for using it and so I have to go to Indio to take care of that and Chris is in the car with me on the way to Indio and he's just in the car with me talking and recording at the same time.

So it's funny to me too, because of how we even do podcasts now, of how that podcast was even made.

It was all recorded like on the phone or on handhelds.

And it wasn't like a Zoom recorder, I don't think.

And

now

like we have the Rode mics or you have like the Sher mic and

it's just different.

And I even like going back to podcasting, starting out on Blue Yetis too, like those are a thing of the past too.

Yeah.

I know.

But I mean, like

you would never assume.

And it makes you wonder if it's like, oh, this was the whole setup was we're just going to pretend we're not recording for

but it's not noticeable that it's for a podcast.

Not at all.

Like we found out maybe a week or two beforehand that it was going to be turned into a podcast.

And he was telling my mom and I this.

And I just remember thinking, oh, oh, like a church sermon.

Okay, like how they put these sermons out onto Apple.

Yep.

Because that's what it was.

I was just thinking, oh, it goes out onto Apple and then it goes out to, I guess, some people.

And I'm thinking maybe a thousand.

Right.

And you're like, it's a companion to the printed.

story that you've agreed to participate in.

Yes.

And I don't know if you read the printed version and then you listened to the audio, but it was basically the same exact thing too.

Including the flim flam artist, which is like, I'll never forget that phrase.

Wait, what is that phrase?

When Christopher said that John was a flim flam artist, like I turned the radio off of me.

I was just like, this is so.

Like it felt like an old-timey radio play from the 1930s, you know, like, and he was a flim flam artist.

Like that kind of, I don't know, like the microphones dropped down from the ceiling, you know what I mean?

I don't know.

It just felt very, very old timey, but.

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Okay, so you do this recording that seems surreptitious in a lot of ways.

And then, how did you,

when did the article get published?

And then when did you find out that it was going to be a podcast?

Can we just go through that timeline?

Yeah, so I need to Google when it came out.

Sure.

The story.

Dan's looking it up.

October 1st, 2017,

part one of the article came out.

Okay.

Oh my gosh.

Okay, yes.

That was when the first part came out.

How did you get alerted that there would be an audio version of this?

So Christopher did tell us that, you know, a podcast would come out.

And

then

he, I believe he sent it to us the day that it came out or someone else sent it to us because everyone that we knew was also listening to it and then sending it to us.

Oh, did you listen to your podcast yet?

You know, and just kind of,

it was weird too, because I just remember listening to it and getting ready.

and just processing everything.

And then my mom didn't want to listen to it because she was very upset that her marriages were being mentioned so many times sure i mean did she have any awareness about it being put out that way

um

so

she has said on multiple interviews that she didn't want that in there that's the only thing she told Christopher Gofford that she didn't want in there was her marriages.

And then that was the first thing that he kind of started with cool

yeah and then how he ended it too i'm not a fan of that style too because it literally has her looking at a photo of john being like don't we look so happy and instead of explaining that

your body is still craving that attention that oxytocin that affection you know your body is still addicted to that love.

And so when you're processing this and

she hates him for what he did to me, but however, when you're looking at a picture of the two of you guys on a trip,

there is going to be emotions that come up.

And I think that how

that ended, and I know...

I know my mom just didn't choose to go look at a photo of John.

You know, it was probably like him being like, and this is assuming and, you know, making assumptions, but this is what I think happened.

I'm sure like how every producer, journalist always does it.

Hey, can you show me a photo of you guys?

Oh, can you tell me about this trip?

Can you tell me about this?

Oh, don't we look so happy together?

Doesn't that make sense?

It makes sense for an audio production where you hear Tara's voice and her mom's voice, and they are aware that their raw feelings will be broadcast to the world.

But it doesn't really make sense for a print piece for the newspaper.

In other words, all throughout the process, my feeling, me, Jane Marie,

I feel like it was unfair to capture these moments on tape for broadcast without that being made very, very clear.

Finding out there was a months-long process of vetting podcast production companies, including mine, months of producing a multi-episode show using you and your family's voices, and somehow you're the last to know.

I personally found that abhorrent.

Remember, we were approached to help create the podcast many months before it came out, and right around the time Tara began being interviewed.

I just want you to know that your instincts are correct, that this is not

how.

Yeah, thank you.

I don't even know how to say it.

Like, I'm so mad, yeah.

Well, like, as you're telling me some of this stuff, yeah, I knew, but I didn't know it was six months, you know.

So, I'm really processing this also in real time with you right now.

Like, the math ain't math.

And let me look at the email history.

Dan, do you have Hernan?

It was when Hernan was still there.

Do you have access to those old emails?

I just want to make sure.

And it took a while to get produced and put out so i'm like

june

we what yeah that it was literally when i think we got approached because

wow

Because I literally don't think I even met up with Christopher Gofford in person yet.

That's, it's.

This is where my trauma was so freaking fresh.

So horrible.

That makes me pissed too, because like I'm in the business of protecting survivors now and kind of, you know, helping them own their stories where they don't get bamboozled like this.

And I'm like, was I just so naive?

What were you doing in June of 2017?

where were you were you in the middle trying to heal i was living in austin texas doing emdr therapy

and i was just trying to just move past my trauma and then i was going to church like three days a week and

getting

just really spiritual.

And so when he approached me too, I was also like deep in that healing journey, but also

let me lean on

God

and a higher power for answers.

And I just like, I was told

in my brain or whatever, like I was just like told that

I feel that this would help other women.

And it has.

So let's not let go of that.

You know, that is a positive outcome.

I'm sure that it has.

I mean, we all know that it has.

This is such a huge cultural moment

that affected so many people.

So, you were right about that.

Dan and I are mouthing at each other through the door.

We're mouthing motherfuckers back and forth.

We're both like these last time.

Fucking motherfuckers.

What?

This would have ruined my career if I'd said yes.

This would rule.

I mean, in my own heart, this would have ruined my career.

This is like so

wrong.

Yeah, and then later, like, our Nan sells Wondery to Amazon for how much?

Oh my God.

So we got a heads up

like a couple weeks before about

the podcast.

And then it was funny too, because I saw that they were planning a live show.

What?

They planned a live show after the podcast came out.

To have you on stage or something?

No.

Not me.

Oh.

Christopher Gothard.

Oh, my God.

And then

like a few other people.

But then I was like, oh, I want to be involved in this live show.

Yeah.

And then my mom wanted to be involved and then Tanya wanted to be involved too.

And then they had us be a part of it.

And then they did donate a percent of the proceeds to domestic violence um to help women of domestic violence but it was funny that i had to kind of ask sure

and that was a for-profit project

yes yes yes

it's funny because just doing the stuff that i do now yeah that would be something you would a hundred percent get paid for yeah yeah because they're making ticket profits right yeah yes Yeah, and concessions.

And probably did they have, did you guys have merch?

Not merch yet.

Okay.

Wait, yet?

Wait, what do you mean?

There became merch?

There became merch for Bravo.

Oh my God.

Okay.

So moving forward.

So, okay.

So we've got, I'm sorry, Tiara, that I'm laughing so much about this, but it's like, this is.

extremely out of the ordinary.

It just doesn't, this doesn't, this isn't how things are supposed to work.

So I just keep getting flabbergasted.

So live show, podcast comes out.

Do you realize that there is this other company also helping the LA Times put this podcast out?

Like the Wondery was involved?

Or did you sign a release to like allow them to, did you give away your life rights for the story?

No, I didn't sign anything.

What?

No, they didn't have us sign anything.

Not even like a verbal consent.

I know you're recording this.

Yeah.

Nothing?

Nothing.

But how they got us later.

Tell me.

So

at this premiere to this live show,

I got to meet

Richard Suckle and then someone else from Atlas Entertainment.

And Christopher Gofford was talking to them.

He's like, Tara, can I introduce you?

And then, so they worked on Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman.

and I'm a huge DC fan especially I love Harley Quinn

and so I was just like fangirling a little bit because I'm like oh my gosh you make like my favorite movies

and then

we just chit chatted a little bit and

They were just like talking about Wonder Woman with me and like how Margo Robbie, this and that.

And I was just like, this is so rad I love Margo Robbie yeah yeah

you know and so we were just talking and then probably like a couple weeks after or a week after something like that then

the ball starts rolling about

talk about doing a scripted series or something along that lines

And then we start to do meetings with Richard Suckle and then Christopher Crawford.

We did a meeting at Hotcakes one day,

and then

we were talking.

Yes, it's a restaurant in Newport, like literally across the street from where I got.

So they didn't invite you to like the studio lot or anything.

No,

no,

all mine have been done at nice restaurants.

Okay.

Like the Ivy.

I yeah, I remember going out in Las Vegas with Richard to this one French restaurant at the Wynn

and it was like a Michelin star restaurant.

And then it won't, and then there was like, we went to this other fig and olive

floor,

right?

So I was like, okay, I like one thing about me is I like to go to restaurants.

Like

that is a way to win my affection and love.

Yeah, the way to win Tara's affection is through her stomach.

But this isn't about that.

Like this should, this is, these are, I don't know.

Anyways, okay, just knowing what happened, I just feel very like protective of you.

But

Dan just texted me a merch, a wine glass that's branded Dirty John.

Jesus Christ.

Okay, so you're having these meetings when you still haven't signed anything.

The podcast is out.

It's becoming incredibly popular, obviously.

And you're talking to Hollywood execs about optioning the podcast and your life story for a television show now.

So your life story has already been

taken for a podcast, right?

That's very, very, very popular, but you're not paid and you haven't signed away your life rights.

And now you're in meetings with Hollywood execs.

Yes.

And I'm not really understanding the layout too, because in my experience working in production, you usually get like an agent, you do like put together your project or a sizzle reel or something.

Can you talk about your experience?

Can I pause you just real quick?

What is your experience with Hollywood up until that point?

To that point, I worked in background and then I had a lot of friends in the industry.

And so I would go just like help them on projects and like indie projects here and there.

And then my ex's stepmom worked in background casting.

And so she would put me out on

background a lot and just be like, okay, I need a person.

Tara, can you do it?

Okay.

Great.

And so I would be used a lot.

And, but I would be one of the special people that knew everybody on set

essentially.

Well, not everybody, but knew a good amount of people on set.

And so I would get like the special treatment.

They'd be like, Tara, do you want to be used or do you want to just sit here?

You want to just sit at craft services.

Yeah.

And I'm like, I want to take a nap.

Can you do this without me?

Tara, do you want to be a featured actress today?

Okay.

And so, like, when the show came around too, and I like a background on that, I was also promised, but they told me they couldn't put this in contracts.

But I say put everything in contracts because it's just necessary.

They told me that I could have, because I asked for this because I knew that if I got this, I would actually get paid more and I would also be a part of the union.

Yes.

So I asked them if I could have one line in the TV show.

Yeah.

They said, I don't think that wouldn't be a problem, but we just can't put that in the contract.

I mean, okay, let's back up again.

So you're having these meetings with the execs.

I mean, again, you haven't signed a damn thing.

Yes.

So they're talking about money at this point.

Oh, they are talking about money.

Okay.

Yes.

But they offered some, like 20 grand for like me, my mom, and my sister.

I basically gave, I told them that that is a fuck you.

Yeah, it is.

That is, that is fuck you, Menny, in scripted television.

And I told, I basically went to some of my friends.

I asked around.

They said that they could get me an agent.

And I told them, I told the execs that basically,

what if I just got an agent and started shopping this around on my own?

Sure.

They said, well, it's already sold to Bravo for two seasons.

What?

Yes.

It's already green lit.

What?

Yes.

I'm sorry, Dan's yelling from the other room.

What's that, Dan?

It's already green lit.

So basically we could do this with or without you.

And I go and I go and I talk to a few people and it's kind of like a hard dilemma because I mean, I could fight with them, but how can I fight with a project that's already green lit?

Yeah.

I could sell my project and there's a chance that my project sits on the shelf.

Tell me about how you felt when you heard that it had already been sold in Greenlit and you were kind of out of the game.

I felt like I was pushed into a hard place.

It was

kind of coercive control a little bit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And what ways did they make you participate?

So I ended up signing a contract, but I got, I probably negotiated three times, like negotiated differently.

And I also

done.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And me, my mom, and my sister are three individual people.

So all our deals should be individual.

So that's what I told them.

And so they listened to that.

And it's actually kind of crazy because

I talked to so many survivors, and

so many survivors were not even involved in their stories.

So, at least, like, I hate to be this way, but I'm like, at least I get that.

What was your involvement?

So, I was basically a consult.

And I was paid for a, and okay, Richard did help me with my contract a little bit.

He did.

Is he the main producer or the director?

He's the one of the executive producers.

From Bravo or from what?

He worked for Atlas Entertainment, which was the people that made it.

And then it went out to Bravo for like a time period and then ended up on Netflix International first and then to Netflix US after the one-year deal ended with Bravo.

Okay.

So he's the EP from the production company that that

yes.

Oh my the amount amount of money that i'm imagining right now that ran around this with the three different giant companies but is like astronomical i'm sure people got very wealthy off of this project um

a hundred percent people sent their kids to college sure

yeah how did so you said so he helped you do what

he helped me kind of

uh

kind of carve things out of my contract.

He told me he was like, I honestly don't like this.

I don't like that.

You know, like

I would ask for this and I would ask for that.

And he helped me actually carve out that they own my story rights for a year.

Okay.

And so that was helpful.

And I tell every survivor to do this if they get into an agreement.

Like, it's only up to a year and nothing else.

I mean, six months is like

what I prefer, but a year, I I understand, you know.

I don't know.

I feel

you don't know.

I just feel so like you got so ripped off over and over and over again.

Like, I know that it should be shorter than that, but you would already been screwed.

Yeah,

yeah, but like, I got to meet with a director.

I kept on bugging them.

When can I come into set?

When can I come into set?

Because I'm also used to being background on set and just kind of going wherever I want.

Well, and then we get, they cast Connie Britton as my mom.

And then, so we got to meet her.

And then it's funny because my sister, Nicole, her best friend, is actually Connie Britton's makeup artist.

Okay.

So she got booked to work on this film as well.

Your night in just got legendary.

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So I ended up in this project ended up getting 100 grand

total for the podcast and the TV show and everything else.

Yes, even though I didn't really know the podcast was like lopped in there.

Yeah.

But because it was with the because we ended up signing our contracts through the LA Times to produce this.

So the LA Times kind of like

paid you?

Yes, technically.

What?

Okay, this is all.

Sorry.

Okay.

So was that just for you or for you and your mom and your sister?

The hundred grand?

Or was it it was like through

the production company.

I think production paid us, but like it was like, oh, the LA Times production.

I feel like at every turn, they're being like, oh, you know, don't expect too much because this is really kind of like a budget,

like a low-budget project or a newspaper that's going out of print or whatever, like is paying, like, they're trying to talk down, talk you down by using different excuses.

Like,

you can expect a failing newspaper to pay you, you know, like that kind of thing.

But

there was

millions and millions and millions of dollars exchanged, you know?

Yeah.

Um

so

okay, was that a hundred thousand split between the three of you or that was just you?

That was just me.

Good.

Okay.

I'm not, I'm glad you got something.

Yes.

But, you know, in California, it doesn't last that long.

No, no,

that's like a, you have a nice one-bedroom apartment.

For a year.

Yes.

Well, I have a two-bedroom, but like I have a friend that stays with me here and there.

And then I got a deal in COVID.

So I got

my apartment's probably like $1,000 cheaper than it would be online.

We should not even be talking about that.

You know what I mean?

Like you should be so wealthy that we're talking about your house in Malibu.

You know what I mean?

Like, so the show comes out, both the podcast and the television show come out, and they're huge hits.

How did you feel about that?

Well, it was crazy too, because I had a friend working on Will and Grace, and he was even telling me that a part of the storyline was like Dirty John storyline and how like my story is so huge and stuff.

And it seemed like NBC Universal was also just like using that one.

And I even the other day had a friend tell me that they're working on set and that in the script, it's they're talking about Dirty John.

And so it's just like it got made into a coin term.

And it's funny because people will argue with me sometimes and be like, that was a term before that, Tara.

And I'm like, no, it technically wasn't, but okay,

believe whatever you want to believe.

But I mean, there's there was called like dirty, um, dirty, uh, hairy.

Yeah.

Yeah, there was dirty Jane.

Not dirty John.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah, it wasn't like a coin term.

And

so it just is weird.

And then because I am in the entertainment industry and on a different aspect, I

am excited about all this at first because, yeah,

you know, you make scripts to get made into movies, and that is really hard.

That is so hard.

Knowing that your story is getting huge, knowing that there's maybe some upshot to like this terrible thing that happened to you, but that might have felt like, you know, some sort of

payback or, you know, currency at the time.

I can totally understand that.

Yeah.

But

I don't know.

I did get access to view all the episodes before they came out, but it was like, but I was only allowed to watch Dirty John, not even like the rest of the other shows out there that other people are allowed to view early.

Which, I mean, I guess, I guess.

You didn't have screeners.

You weren't like in the screener pool.

I was, but just for my show.

Oh, okay.

Huh.

It was like the NBC screeners, and then it only allowed me to see Dirty John.

Oh, my God.

I was like, oh, this looks cool.

Oh, you can't see that.

I'm I'm happy that we're kind of talking about the story about like the podcasting side of things.

And I'm working on something to put my story to a close because I, I mean, it was cathartic for a couple years talking about my story, but then now it comes to the point where it just continuously triggers me

and I live in it.

And

you know, I

it makes me sad that I had to take someone's life

it doesn't make me sad necessarily that they're dead yeah because

so many people that were his victims have reached out to me

and told me that they're not living in fear anymore

and that

like I mean I'm like I don't want to ever have to kill someone.

Sure.

But

if they're living not in fear anymore, then that makes me at least happy because I took away some of their pain for them.

And I'll take that pain and I'll carry it.

And

it's just, like, I just, you know, there's.

There's still work to do.

Like, I've healed a good amount.

I've healed a lot.

However, there's still moments like, you know, you saw me fresh out of a breakup and

like just got reactive during that breakup.

Like, I just, you know, I got reactive with him, even.

And like, my trauma, it amplifies things.

And like, I'm more inclined to tell someone to go fuck off opposed to like go to my homeostasis.

Right, right.

I mean, yeah, I can't imagine something harder than what you went through.

Not only did you have to do that, but it was someone your,

your mom loved, you know, like it's just, it's so

hard.

And I'm really sorry.

Um, thanks.

So sorry.

Well, my time's coming.

It is, it is, it is.

Anyway, I'm,

what do you make of it now?

Like that whole experience of being kind of cut out of your own story.

So I'm, I'm,

you know, I am,

it just sucks to say this because I am fortunate to have some involvement with it.

It was kind of like either get in or get out kind of vibe, but they did listen to me about how I wanted my attack.

And that how you wanted it represented, you mean?

Yes, and how it went down.

That was something that they actually wanted a lot of accuracy in.

And did you feel like it wasn't correct in the way it was portrayed in the podcast?

Well,

to be honest, I don't really remember that part of the podcast.

I blacked out.

But

in the show,

it just,

they wanted everything done how it went down, except for maybe like one or two parts because of filming.

Sure.

Like it looked better for filming, but they

made me very aware of that.

Um, but that was the director and the executive producer.

And they kept in touch with me.

I even talked to Damian Caro, who was the stunt coordinator for it.

And we even talked about how the stunt coordinator would go the stunt would go down and stuff yeah

and to be honest that was so important to me to have that say

and

because they did that like

i was

pleased to a certain extent you know what i mean yeah

yeah that you had any hand in it at all Yeah, so I just like was thankful that that's how they like actually

I actually consulted and I remember getting on the floor in the deli of this deli in Burbank

and just

showing them how I actually defended myself and they were like no no no we don't want you to re-traumatize yourself but I was like no it's so important to me that I actually show you

everything.

And then I talked to so many survivors like or so being listened to felt good,

yes.

And that was really like the first time I really felt listened to

with even everything.

I mean, I'm telling my story,

this is the one time where it was like

there was they wanted to you could tell they wanted to make me comfortable.

I feel like I have to be positive, otherwise, like I turn into a victim.

Right.

No, I hear that.

And, you know, it's just like

there's so many people that do have opinions about me.

And even listening to this podcast, everyone's going to form an opinion one way or another.

They're either going to be like, this is fucked up.

This is messed up.

Or, huh, she sounds a little naive.

I don't like the tone of her voice.

It hurts my ears.

Like, people are just always going to have opinions, you know?

But, you know, people didn't know this part of the story.

So I was shocked when you told me.

And I don't think people understand that this is how it can work, you know,

that this sort of thing is possible.

I don't, I think that you also are like desensitized in a way because this sort of thing has happened over and over and over again for the last seven years or whatever.

Yeah.

But But I think that the general public doesn't understand that this

you can just have your life stories put out there and a bunch of people make money off it, but not you, you know?

Yeah.

Well, I just think of like how many adaptations of O.J.

Simpson, this and that.

Nicole Brown has come out, and even like Kim Goldman, the Goldman family,

they've had to fight for justice in like different ways.

And, you know, even though they won case,

they haven't seen that money.

Right.

Exactly.

I know.

You know, maybe it seems futile, but

just to reiterate what I felt when we first got the pitch or the request,

you're the central character.

Like,

it's not him, you know?

And like, I don't, that's what I don't understand.

Like, I just have never understood that.

Thank you.

Well, like, there's so many things that get made.

And the difference that I see in my story opposed to other stories that are out there is that I ended up killing the guy and like I come out of it with like a few stab wounds, but completely unscathed.

Like that's a story that's kind of really just unheard of.

Totally unheard of.

And also

you just said that you had a couple stab wounds and you were completely unscathed.

Take that one to your therapist, okay?

Let's know that you just described yourself as unscathed with stab wounds.

Well, like, I have one in my forearm, and then the one in my chest was like barely anything.

And then, like, I was in the hospital for like a day or two.

Yeah, I'm just trying to get,

I'm probably trying to downplay it.

When reached for comment, Christopher Gofford sent us to the LA Times spokesperson who said,

When Christopher Gofford met with Tara Newell to record an interview for the podcast, he was using professional equipment, specifically a handheld TaskAm recorder and possibly a small boom mic.

The podcast was produced as editorial content for the Los Angeles Times, which means an appearance release was not needed.

The Dream is a production of Little Everywhere, produced

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