BONUS 2: Humble Beginnings, Lavish Endings

Hey, dream listeners, there's now an ad-free version of the dream that you can subscribe to, the dream plus at thedream.supercast.com.

Five bucks a month gets you every single episode of this show with zero ads, which you love and I love.

And we're hoping that this will help us pay the bills.

And the main goal being that we can keep making this show.

Go to thedream.supercast.com and subscribe.

To make it easy, we have put the link in the show description.

Just look down underneath this episode.

It says thedream.supercast.com and just click on that easy peasy you're gonna get a lot of extra stuff too we're working on all that another thing you need to do please subscribe to our instagram it's the dream x the letter x jane marie see you over there

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees.

Just ask the Capital One bank guy.

It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way.

He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast, too.

Ah, really?

Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy.

What's in your wallet?

Terms apply.

See capital1.com slash bank, capital One NA member FDIC.

Ready to elevate your skincare?

Introducing Medicaid, a clinically proven dermatologist-recommended British skincare brand known for age-defying results.

You may have heard about growth factors as the must-have anti-aging ingredient, and that's why Medicaid is excited about their latest innovation, the Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum.

This serum harnesses the power of Growth Factor Miniprotein, a cutting-edge technology that mimics natural growth factors but goes deeper, delivering visible, transformative results.

Studies show immediate improvement in expression lines in just 10 minutes and a significant decrease in deep set wrinkles after eight weeks of use.

The Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum not only reduces wrinkles, but also gives gives a filler-like effect, smoothing out your skin's appearance dramatically.

Visit medicate.us.

That's M-E-D-I-K and the number 8.us.

Use code PODCAST20 for 20% off your purchase today.

Hey, it's Jane Marie.

We're releasing four bonus episodes from season one for the next couple of weeks.

They're about MLMs, again, some of your faves, the Ugly Banana Leggings Company for one, and another one that's sort of like a cult.

If you want to unlock all of the bonus episodes right now, you can go to stitcherpremium.com and sign up for a free trial with the code DREAM.

You'll get access to all four bonus episodes today and a free month of listening without ads in Stitcher.

And you'll also be supporting our show.

That's stitcherpremium.com and sign up with the code DREAM to listen to everything today.

Otherwise, you gotta wait over the next four weeks.

Thanks!

After talking to Haley, I was dying to know more about the founders of LulaRowe, because as you may remember from previous episodes, the people who start MLMs are typically odd characters.

So Haley pointed me to her colleague, Anya Kane, at Business Insider, who's looking into the cult of personality around the owners of Lula Rowe.

I've been researching a bit on the two founders, a married couple.

named Mark and Deanne Stidham, and they're pretty interesting.

Tell me all about them.

Tell me everything you know.

Oh, gosh.

Well, there's a lot.

I definitely know a lot more about Deanne.

Of course, she is the founder.

She's kind of has a pretty interesting origin story.

She was the 10th of 11 children.

She has a twin sister who's named Diane, who's younger than her.

Her parents, Elbert and Maureen Startup, were two devoted Mormon parents.

They ran a catering company actually.

Her last name is Startup?

Their last name is Startup.

Her maiden name is Startup.

So she's Deanne Startup Stiddam.

Wow.

Yeah.

Everything's very on the nose with this story.

Yeah.

But yeah, so they were raised in a big household.

The kids grew up actually helping the parents out with their catering business.

And Deanne also eventually got a job at her mother's bridal shop.

So it was kind of very entrepreneurial family.

One interesting thing about her mother, Maureen, is that Maureen had a bit of a side hustle trying to fight against the Equal Rights Amendment, which is happening in the 70s.

Yes.

Yes.

Well, she was the head of the California delegation of the STOP ERA committee.

She's interviewed in the Los Angeles Times in the 70s talking about how the amendment will cause women to be drafted.

and will hurt women in terms of child custody cases.

So this was pretty important to her.

I actually have a bit of an excerpt from a book she wrote with her husband on femininity.

Sorry, I'm like wrestling papers.

This is from The Secret Power of Femininity by Albert and Maureen Stardup.

So here we go.

Stand before a mirror in the privacy of your room and say to yourself, I am just a helpless woman at the mercy of you big, strong men.

Stand before a mirror and say to yourself, I expect you to pamper and humor me.

With this in mind, try a pretty pout, stick out your lower lip as much as to say, I thought you liked me.

Or stamp your feet daintily, saucily, and shake your curls as much as to say, I am furious, but what can a little girl like me do with a big, strong man like you?

Wait, is this like what?

Is it in the don'ts chapter?

Where is this from?

No, this is kind of, so her and um her Maureen and her husband Albert kind of had the thesis of demonstrating that you can, quote, kill your own snakes when you're a woman.

Kill your own snakes, meaning like solve your own problems, I suppose.

That's kind of a turnoff.

Yeah, kill your own snakes.

If you're a woman and you can kill your own snakes, men will not be attracted to you.

So you kind of want to be a little bit of a

little girl and show that, no, you need help.

You need help opening the pickle jar or you need to stand in front of a mirror and pout saucily and do all that kind of thing.

I'm going to stop on ya right now um

because i had to get my hands on this book and my hands are currently on this book the secret power of femininity the book uh opens with a nice family portrait that looks like my worst nightmare two old people with 10 children in front of them on a couch and two of those children are tiny babies and one of those tiny babies is deanne

anyways the book is all about how to basically how to get somebody to marry you.

And on top of what Anya read from, I'm going to read a little more of it.

Nature impels girls to progress unconsciously by the same principles and methods that the salesman and the preacher follow deliberately.

These girls, as nature's favored ones, follow feminine instincts, doing the right thing at the right time, and every man they pass is a girl watcher, recognizing them as whistlebait.

And then there's a lot of lists throughout the book.

This one is how to emphasize your own girlishness.

You are to make yourself somebody's pampered darling.

You are constantly to bring out and emphasize the contrast between your tenderness and the man's strength.

You are to imitate by action and word how much you as a frail woman must depend upon their power, bravery, and chivalry.

You are to observe the women wherever you find them who have the quality of femininity.

You are to practice every art of manner, voice, dress, and action which you have observed in these winsome women.

Now, they said something about voice, which I'm taking a little personally, but

don't worry.

They have a whole page on that.

Your voice can make or break you.

So these are the people who raised the woman who owns Lula Rowe.

That's correct.

And,

you know, they kind of went further than just

doing political activism and also writing this book.

As a couple, they would host femininity forums in the LA area where they would teach women these kind of tips on attracting men by

maybe being more submissive.

Go on.

Did you pay to go to them?

Were they like seminars?

What were they?

Yeah, you paid a, gosh, don't quote me on this because I'm not sure the exact amount, but it might have been 250 bucks a head.

It was, it was, I mean, and I think that got you multiple seminars.

So you're essentially almost paying for like a college course, but it's about, you know, shaking your curls and stamping your feet to get men.

Yeah.

Pretty.

Amazing.

Yeah.

It's, it's kind of, it's kind of wild.

So they kind of were able to monetize

this backlash against the rise of feminism in mainstream culture.

It wasn't just a political thing.

It was also a business.

So that is who raised Dean Stardup Siddhim, the founder of Lularo.

Fascinating.

I mean, they remind me of like literally every

owner of the MLMs that we covered in season one.

Like so much, like

mixing politics and these seminars and self-help and all of that stuff.

So, okay, that's her family.

What happened to them?

Did they win?

Just kidding.

Did they win the fight?

Oh, yes.

Interestingly enough,

Deanne and her sister Diane had a double wedding.

They married two cousins.

Those were their first husbands

in the Salt Lake City.

Mormon church.

Wait, this is not her first marriage then?

Yeah, Mark is her second husband.

We don't really know a ton about her first husband.

He remarried.

So yeah, they both then found someone else.

And yeah, that's kind of where Mark comes in the picture.

As far as who he was before Lu LaRowe, he really isn't the face of Lu LaRowe, even though he does hold the title of CEO.

So we don't really hear as much from Mark about where he came from.

One thing I was able to find out though from

public records is that he had a company called Chino Homes LLC that was real estate development.

It was in the real estate development in Chino, California, founded in 2000.

And the guy who's also listed as an officer of the company went to jail

for starting a Ponzi scheme that unraveled when the markets crashed in 2008.

So that was kind of interesting.

His name's Aldo Bacala.

Yeah.

It's Kamala Harris, the current presidential candidate,

sent him to jail, basically.

She was the prosecutor on that case.

Wow.

So we've got Mark Siddham, business partner to a guy who went to prison for a Ponzi scheme.

We've got Deanne Stardup.

whose parents were anti-feminist activists.

And yeah, together they founded LulaRow around 2012.

And Mark is the CEO.

Deanne, I guess, is the president technically.

And

they've grown it to what it is today.

Can you talk about their origin story for the company?

Back to school is a time when routines reset, and so does screen time.

With all the pickups, practices, and after-school logistics, kids need a way to stay connected.

But handing them a phone designed for adults with internet access and social media, that's where the real concern begins.

Teens already spend an average of nine hours a day on screens outside of school.

That's basically a full-time job just scrolling.

The U.S.

Surgeon General says that kids who spend more than three hours online daily are twice as likely to experience depression and anxiety.

And most of that time is spent on social media.

It's staggering.

Nearly half of teen girls and a third of boys say social media causes overwhelming stress.

A quarter of teens say it makes them feel worse about their own lives.

Here's the good news.

Gab is doing something no one else is doing.

Their approach, called Tech and Steps, offers safe, age-appropriate phones and watches with no social media, no internet browsers, and GPS tracking built in.

From young kids to teens, each device grows with the child and helps build healthy tech habits.

Bottom line, you don't have to give a kid an adult device.

This school year, give them Gab.

Safe connection, no distractions.

I can't recommend Gab enough.

Use our code to get the best deal on something that gives peace of mind.

whether you're a parent, a guardian, or just someone who cares.

Visit gab.com slash thedream and use the code the dream dream for a special back-to-school offer.

That's gab, g-a-b-b.

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees.

Just ask the Capital One Bank Guy.

It's pretty much all he talks about.

In a good way, he'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast, too.

Ah, really?

Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy.

What's in your wallet?

Terms apply.

See capital1.com/slash bank, capital One NA member FDIC.

Ready to elevate your skincare?

Introducing Medicaid, a clinically proven dermatologist-recommended British skincare brand known for age-defying results.

You may have heard about growth factors as the must-have anti-aging ingredient, and that's why Medicaid is excited about their latest innovation, the Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum.

This serum harnesses the power of Growth Factor Mini Protein, a cutting-edge technology that mimics natural growth factors but goes deeper, delivering visible, transformative results.

Studies show immediate improvement in expression lines in just 10 minutes and a significant decrease in deep-set wrinkles after eight weeks of use.

The Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum not only reduces wrinkles, but also gives a filler-like effect, smoothing out your skin's appearance dramatically.

Visit medicate.us.

That's M-E-D-I-K and the number 8.us.

Use code PODCAST20 for 20% off your purchase today.

Yeah, well, it's interesting.

Their origin story that the founders put out there is pretty well crafted, I would say.

Basically, Deanne talks a lot about being a single mom, raising seven children

and always

kind of trying to start up her own clothing business.

She talks about about her daughter requesting that she makes,

you know, makes her this long maxi dress that was the style at the time.

Actually, according to Deanne, it was a maxi skirt, not dress.

She makes it.

Her daughter wears it to school and posts a photo on Instagram and suddenly orders are pouring in, or so they say.

The way she kind of talks about it is that it didn't really click until she started adopting the house party model where she's bringing it to other women and encouraging them to sell.

So basically it didn't click until it became a multi-level marketing company.

Early on, Deanne amassed a huge following online and interacted a lot with fans and consultants.

She'd chat with people in the comments.

She even gave out her cell phone number.

And for a while, Deanne was a star.

She began acting like some stars do on Instagram and Facebook, you know, just showing off her wealth, her many tropical vacations, her horses, her private jet.

They do have a yep, and it's nice.

They've got snacks.

I've seen photos inside it.

It's pretty swanky.

It's like a G5 or a G6 or something, right?

Yes, it's a G5.

It's

pretty fancy.

That is registered to a LLC based in Delaware.

You know, social media giveth and social media taketh away, where it's a situation where the way that they were able to build up their following and their company through social media is also giving fuel to folks who really do want to, I believe, take them down in a certain way, or at least see them held accountable for what they say is.

a lot of financial malfeasance and you know potentially i mean that what what accusers are saying is that they're saying they're running a pyramid scheme and that they're hiding money in a bunch of shell companies at this point so it's it's kind of it's kind of very polarizing for them on social media right now i imagine

and and mark i think is more um he's not as public a figure as his wife um but when in one area he is quite public and that's the world of high-speed luxury cars.

They're called Konosegs.

I'm probably pronouncing that wrong.

I'm terrible, but it's this cool black and red-looking thing.

Its name is Ruthie, apparently.

And Mark.

His model name or his nickname for it?

Oh, no,

he named it Ruthie.

They all have these Norse mythology names.

You know, it's Thor, it's Ragnarok, it's, you know, Vader.

And they go, Mark, what's the name of your car?

I go, it doesn't have a name.

It's got to have a name.

I go, great, it's Ruthie.

So Ruthie broke the speed record for a model car

at some point.

And it was kind of an interesting way in which it did that.

Mark and his friends, who were also Koenigsegg owners and I guess had some connections, they got a bunch of the highway from in Nevada toward Las Vegas shut down for a day.

What?

Yeah.

And they were able to get a guy in a race car, you know, this professional race car driver to drive Ruthie down the road and break the record.

So how much should they have to pay to do that?

It must have been pretty sizable or

some favors were called in because that seems, I've never heard of that happening except for maybe like a movie or something.

But I mean, I just imagine there were some like random international tourists like sitting there in traffic being like, what on earth is going on?

Okay, so these cars, like he shows them off a lot and they're worth millions of dollars, some of them, yes?

Yes.

I think what drives a lot of Mark and Dean's social media postings, it seems, is they see it as kind of two people celebrating what hard work and ingenuity have earned them.

And

they want to, they see it as a motivator where they're like, wow, you know, a cruise and trips around the world and a private jet and a ranch with all these beautiful horses named Moana and like Misty.

And they want that.

And those are two of their horses' names, by the way.

People see that and they want that and they don't begrudge them for having it.

Even though they know that they owe a bunch of money to their manufacturer and that they, you know, don't fulfill orders sometimes and that they owe, you know, distributors a ton of money at this point.

Like, how do they set that aside?

Well, I think, I think one thing that I see a lot on social media when people are commenting about this or people are arguing with one another in the comments is that

these are just normal hiccups for a business.

You know, most businesses get sued.

Most businesses,

you know, mess

sometimes.

Most businesses get sued?

Is it what they're saying?

I mean, I don't think most businesses get accused of being a pyramid scheme, which is what the Washington Attorney General is saying about Lulero, but people kind of write it off as almost, you know, sometimes people are haters and, you know, they want to sue you.

And I, I think, I think, um,

how do I say this without sounding?

I guess.

You walk in tired and hungry, one bad dinner away from losing it.

You don't like to cook.

You don't want more takeout.

You just want something good.

That's why there's Dish by Blue Apron.

Pre-made meals with at least 20 grams of protein and no artificial flavors or colors from fridge to fork in five minutes or less.

Keep the flavor.

Ditch the subscription.

Get 20% off your first two orders with code APRAN20.

Terms and conditions apply.

Visit blueapron.com slash terms for more.

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees.

Just ask the Capital One Bank Guy.

It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way.

He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too.

Ah, really?

Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy.

What's in your wallet?

Terms apply.

See capital1.com slash bank, capital One NA member FDIC.

Ready to elevate your skincare?

Introducing Medicaid, a clinically proven dermatologist-recommended British skincare brand known for age-defying results.

You may have heard about growth factors as the must-have anti-aging ingredient, and that's why Medicaid is excited about their latest innovation, the Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum.

This serum harnesses the power of Growth Factor Miniprotein, a cutting-edge technology that mimics natural growth factors but goes deeper, delivering visible, transformative results.

Studies show immediate improvement in expression lines in just 10 minutes and a significant decrease in deep set wrinkles after eight weeks of use.

The Liquid Peptides advanced MP Face Serum not only reduces wrinkles, but also gives a filler-like effect, smoothing out your skin's appearance dramatically.

Visit medicate.us.

That's M-E-D-I-K and the number 8.us.

Use code PODCAST20 for 20% off your purchase today.

You know, sometimes when people see something that they really want to believe in,

there's a level of defensiveness towards any sort of perceived attack.

From what people have described to me about LuLaRow events where Mark and Deanne are present or just Deanne is present, there's really a lot of pomp and circumstance around them.

People are lining up to say hi to them on the cruise.

And I know this was one story I wrote about Deanne's 60th birthday party.

They had it at a very fancy California Mission Inn

and people were holding like cardboard cutouts of like a cartoon version of her face.

And what?

Yeah, it was pretty.

And like, you know, you could say, well, you know, it was her birthday party.

People were just getting nuts.

But I know a lot of people on social media were commenting on how strange that was.

One other kind of funny aspect of the company culture that one other employee told me was that she showed up for one of, I think she was only kind of a couple weeks into the job.

And she shows up in her kind of luxury Chanel outfit.

And, you know, she's kind of walking around the hallways, rocking it.

And she runs into Deanne,

who she says kind of looked at her really sternly and kind of gave her a once over and was like, that's not Lero.

She was like, no, it's Chanel.

And then Deanne essentially, you know, she claims made her come with her to the warehouse where they have all their product and change into Lu LaRowe.

Actually, if you're a fan of Chanel, you are not a fan of Lu LaRowe.

They're quite different brands.

Haley and I always have this kind of joke where we say like, if, you know, because we sometimes we're debating, is this, is this newsworthy,

this report on Lu LaRowe?

And then we think, At one point, this was a $2 billion business, or at least so they claimed.

If most $2 billion businesses had their CEOs going on social media telling people to protect them and to stop the haters and the trolls, that would definitely be news.

Like if Tim Cook was doing that, you know, stop the haters and trolls of the iPhone, you know, that would be pretty interesting.

Next time on the dream.

As the Nexium people would describe it, basically a way to save the world.

You're not just improving yourself.

You are going to help everyone on the planet live better and improve the whole world.

And one of the ways you do that is by controlling the assets of as much assets as you could possibly control.

The Dream is a production of Little Everywhere and Stitcher, written and reported by me, Jane Marie, and Dan Gallucci, with help from Lyra Smith.

We're edited by Peter Clowney.

Our executive producers are Chris Bannon, Dan Gallucci, and me.

We have a brand new season coming out in a few months, so don't forget to subscribe, and we also appreciate you rating and reviewing the podcast anywhere you listen.

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees.

Just ask the Capital One bank guy.

It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way.

He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast, too.

Ah, really?

Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy.

What's in your wallet?

Terms apply.

See capital1.com/slash bank, capital One NA member FDIC.

Ready to elevate your skincare?

Introducing Medicaid, a clinically proven dermatologist-recommended British skincare brand known for age-defying results.

You may have heard about growth factors as the must-have anti-aging ingredient, and that's that's why Medicaid is excited about their latest innovation, the Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum.

This serum harnesses the power of Growth Factor Miniprotein, a cutting-edge technology that mimics natural growth factors but goes deeper, delivering visible, transformative results.

Studies show immediate improvement in expression lines in just 10 minutes and a significant decrease in deep set wrinkles after eight weeks of use.

The Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum not only reduces wrinkles, but also gives a filler-like effect, smoothing out your skin's appearance dramatically.

Visit medicate.us.

That's M-E-D-I-K and the number 8.us.

Use code PODCAST20 for 20% off your purchase today.

Hey, everybody, it's Nicole Beyer here with some hot takes from Wayfair.

A cozy corduroy sectional from Wayfair?

Um yeah, that's a hot take.

Go on and add it to your cart and take it.

A pink glam nightstand from Wayfair scalding hot take.

Take it before I do.

A mid-century modern cabinet from Wayfair that doubles as a wine bar.

Do I have to say it?

It's a hot take.

Get it at Wayfair.com and enjoy that free shipping too.

Wayfair, every style, every home.

Hey, dream listeners, it's finally here.

The dream plus, where you can get every single episode of our show with no ads.

It's $5 a month.

It's the only tier.

No commercials.

Plus, bonus content.

This helps keep us independent.

And your contribution will help change the way every listener hears the dream.

We'll be able to take out the ads that we don't even know are getting put into this show, which is annoying to both you and us.

We're also going to have an amazing discussion board.

The interface has it cataloged under AMA, Ask Me Anything.

But I don't love rules.

So what I did is started a bunch of threads like ask Dan and I questions, general chit chat just to make friends and stuff.

And every time I've been in charge of a discussion board, I've made a tab called Women Be Shopping, and it's there.

And we're just going to talk about what we bought.

It'll be fun.

That's the dream.s-u-p-e-r-c-a-st-t dot com.

Supercast.

Please, please go subscribe.

It's five bucks.

It's less than a latte if you live in Los Angeles.

See you there.