S1 E9: Leave a Message

Speaker 1 Hey dream listeners, there's now an ad-free version of the dream that you can subscribe to, the dream plus at thedream.supercast.com.

Speaker 3 Five bucks a month gets you every single episode of this show with zero ads, which you love and I love.

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Speaker 3 Just look down underneath this episode.

Speaker 7 It says thedream.supercast.com and just click on that easy peasy you're gonna get a lot of extra stuff too we're working on all that another thing you need to do please subscribe to our instagram it's the dream x the letter x jane marie see you over there

Speaker 8 if you thought goldenly breaded mcdonald's chicken couldn't get more golden thank golder because new sweet and smoky special edition gold sauce is here made for your chicken favorites at Participating McDonald's for a limited time.

Speaker 3 Hey, dream listeners.

Speaker 6 If you like this podcast, you're going to love the book.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I wrote a book.

Speaker 3 It's called Selling the Dream, and it's coming out March 12th, 2024 on Atria. It's about all of your favorite characters from MLMs and some that you've never even heard of, I hope.

Speaker 7 Check it out.

Speaker 4 Previously on The Dream, McKenzie started bawling.

Speaker 3 Remember that from last week?

Speaker 4 There's also, of course, been a lot of deep, depressing history from me and Dan. And then crying with my aunt and reminiscing with grandma and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 4 Today, we're letting you guys take over. For the past few weeks, we've been asking you, our listeners, to call in and leave us voicemails about your MLM experiences.

Speaker 4 And we're going to listen to some of those today. But first, I need to put some people on blast.

Speaker 4 A lot of you called in just to rat out your friends. You called and gave us your friends' actual phone numbers and asked me personally to call them up and tell them that they're being scammed

Speaker 4 or you asked me to do some recon on your behalf you know find out if they're lying about how much money they're making or whatever um her name is

Speaker 11 her number is fila

Speaker 12 and you're totally okay to you know inform her

Speaker 12 that i passed her info along um if you get in touch with her i'm just i'm so curious.

Speaker 13 All right.

Speaker 12 Love you guys. Bye.

Speaker 4 Look, I have enough calls to make for this show already, including one at the end of this episode to the woman who skipped her best friend's wedding to attend Limelight Palooza. Stick around for that.

Speaker 4 But before we get to her, let's listen to your stories. We're just going to let these roll.

Speaker 15 So I've never actually done an MLM myself, but one of my best friends, she's done everyone possible.

Speaker 17 In college, she filed for bankruptcy and she was one of my bridesmaids.

Speaker 16 I haven't actually talked to her in about four years

Speaker 18 because

Speaker 16 every time I talk to her, she tries to sell me something.

Speaker 18 This was her last text to me.

Speaker 17 Hey, how was your child's first day of school? My youngest has her meet the teacher night and it starts next Tuesday. She's really excited.

Speaker 17 I'm also wondering if you'd be interested in helping me out with something. Super close to earning a free cruise and leadership for her husband and I with Plexus.

Speaker 17 I'm curious to be willing to make a one-time purchase to help me earn this opportunity. I have a great sale for you to make the deal sweeter, but I really only desire to help people.

Speaker 17 If you think this would be a good fit for you, I want to help you out. What do you think?

Speaker 14 Again, it's been four years since I've had a conversation with her.

Speaker 21 A couple years ago, my marriage was on the rocks.

Speaker 21 I didn't really know why,

Speaker 21 but

Speaker 21 my wife at the time was wanting to divorce.

Speaker 21 And so I reached out to my father-in-law, who I had a pretty good relationship with, and asked him if he could maybe sit down and talk with me, because I knew that he had gone through something similar with his marriage, which made it work.

Speaker 21 The time came to sit down, talk to him, and he proceeded in basically dismantling me as a person and as a provider,

Speaker 21 telling me that my education wasn't good enough, my job wasn't good enough, which led to the question, what are you going to do? What will you do?

Speaker 21 And I was flabbergasted. I just sat there

Speaker 22 holding back tears, to be honest.

Speaker 22 And he said, I'll tell you what you can do.

Speaker 22 And his solution was melaluca.

Speaker 22 He

Speaker 21 obligated me to sit down and listen to his presentation about Bella Luca and explain how that was going to get me into

Speaker 21 financial freedom and how that would essentially win back the heart of his daughter, who is now my ex-wife. It was a moment in my life where I was devastated beyond belief

Speaker 21 and just reminded me why I have stayed away from direct sales, as we call it, my entire life.

Speaker 23 Thank you for the show that you're doing. It's important work.
My name is Jason,

Speaker 23 and I run an immigrant health clinic in Phoenix, Arizona.

Speaker 23 I've seen it again and again how a lot of our patients who are already financially struggling have gotten sucked into some of these MLM schemes, especially Herbalife, but others as well.

Speaker 23 And I think that what makes our patients especially vulnerable to this is that so many of them are highly intelligent, but because of America's broken immigration laws, they're sort of locked out of the dignified labor markets.

Speaker 23 And so they find themselves forced into these very menial and degrading jobs, you know, scrubbing other people's toilets and cleaning other people's offices. And

Speaker 23 they have such a desperation to have work with dignity that when somebody tells them they can run their own business and

Speaker 23 have control of their life,

Speaker 23 they understandably really want to fall for that. And I've just seen such an expansion of

Speaker 23 some of these scammy MLM businesses in the Spanish-speaking market. And it's frustrating to me because these are some of the people who are already preyed upon in so many different ways.

Speaker 23 And now I see them being taken advantage of.

Speaker 20 What's up?

Speaker 17 Please don't use my name on the show, but I'm going to tell you my name.

Speaker 17 I work as a youth minister.

Speaker 14 I went through like two years of moms at the church constantly approaching me about their MLMs because they thought that because I am a leader in my church and I work with all these kids and I work with all these moms, that I would be able to grow their downline so quickly that I would make them a lot of money.

Speaker 14 And I would be like, no, you idiots. This is not something.
Okay, I didn't call them idiots.

Speaker 17 It's not very pastoral.

Speaker 17 But they would would like make up reasons to talk to me and not tell me that it's MLM and they would be like oh my kid is you know struggling and I need to talk to you about my kid and I'd be like oh okay cool come on into my office and they'd come into the office and they'd be like talk about their kid for two minutes and then

Speaker 17 it would be like oh have you heard about isogenics

Speaker 17 or have you heard about MA and then it was like the other thing that like really frustrated me was that they knew that because I chose to do church work I don't make you know a ton of money so they would lie about their kids having problems just to get to me and then try to sell me on their so-called business anyway I just I just needed to rant

Speaker 25 I just wanted to share my experience

Speaker 25 As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, first I want to stress that the church has nothing to do with MLMs officially, but as you stated, Utah is the unofficial global capital of MLMs, and I believe this is because of the nature of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Speaker 25 Firstly,

Speaker 25 just like a lot of other churches, Latter-day Saints are generally trusting.

Speaker 25 You might say gullible. They're optimistic and sharing.

Speaker 25 And importantly, we have lots of friends and family.

Speaker 25 So when your uncle comes to you and says, I have this great life-changing opportunity, sometimes it sounds a lot like a message you would hear at church.

Speaker 25 Secondly, Latter-day Saints often believe that because they are good people, good things will happen to them.

Speaker 25 Of course, this is a false belief, but joining the latest MLM to come their way just has to work out because they say their prayers, go to church, help their neighbors, so forth.

Speaker 25 Another thing is that being self-sufficient is very, very strongly preached. And as you've discussed in your podcast, women are generally not supposed to work.

Speaker 25 And so being part of an MLM is a perfect fit because they feel like they can earn money for their family without officially having a job.

Speaker 25 My last point, Latter-day Saints are born and bred to be missionaries.

Speaker 25 A phrase you'll hear all the time at church is, every member is a missionary.

Speaker 25 And so preaching the gospel to friends often naturally flows to selling MLM products to their friends.

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Speaker 8 Hey, Jane, my name is Nick.

Speaker 27 I live out in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Speaker 27 So, my experience, I moved to Harrisburg about two years ago, right?

Speaker 28 And as I'm settling in, you know, you go to grocery stores, and

Speaker 27 first grocery store I'm in, I end up meeting this guy, and he started, you know, I think he started talking to me about sports.

Speaker 28 He said, oh, you look like you work out, which is weird, right?

Speaker 27 And, you know, we started talking and just real casual and about what we do and for work.

Speaker 27 And he tells me, yeah, I also do this thing on the side.

Speaker 22 It's in sports marketing.

Speaker 20 It's really neat.

Speaker 22 You know, it's a group of guys that are similar to yourself.

Speaker 28 We should get together and talk more about it.

Speaker 20 I'm like, okay, that

Speaker 26 sounds cool. I'm new to the area.

Speaker 27 I'd like to make some friends and let's do it.

Speaker 26 So this guy's like asking me if you can come over to my house or where we can meet and when we can meet.

Speaker 28 And I'm just like, you know, the more I think about it, it smells like an MLM. So I get him on the phone and I'm just like, hey,

Speaker 22 let me know what's the product?

Speaker 29 What am I selling?

Speaker 22 Oh, it's marketing.

Speaker 29 Okay, so there's no product.

Speaker 22 No, no product. Okay, then how does it work?

Speaker 26 Do you make money? How do you make money?

Speaker 28 And none of these questions, he could give concrete answers. And then he starts flipping the script, which I've heard of and I've seen this multiple times.

Speaker 22 They flip it and they say, well, I don't know if you'd be the right fit for us.

Speaker 28 We're looking for people that are like-minded.

Speaker 26 And then he, you know, tries to make you or me

Speaker 26 feel self-conscious.

Speaker 29 You start to wonder, well, am I the right fit?

Speaker 15 Like, what's wrong with me?

Speaker 26 You know, and I realized he was doing this, and I just kind of wrote him off, and that was that.

Speaker 29 But funny enough, I continue going to grocery stores because I need to buy food.

Speaker 29 And I see, this is like a month ago, and I see this guy, the same one that approached me the first time, and he's walking around. And I see him.
He's got this other dude cornered, and they're talking.

Speaker 29 And so this is so funny. So I leave the store, and I'm driving out.
I got my groceries and I see him leaving the store with no groceries.

Speaker 29 Hi, my name's Mimi.

Speaker 29 I was part of the Amway organization, but in like a sub

Speaker 15 categorized MLM within Amway. It was called Worldwide Group.

Speaker 30 And it was from the start so controlling from every aspect of my life, from how I spend my money and then who I would associate with.

Speaker 30 It was highly encouraged that if other people did not want to be a part of Worldwide Group, that you should, quote, sniff them out of your life.

Speaker 31 I'd rather not use my real name, so you can call me whatever you want.

Speaker 16 Amy, Lisa, whatever.

Speaker 18 I don't care. So here is what happened to me.

Speaker 31 In 2002, I was pregnant with my first child, and I was a virtual assistant, and I had a client in town who was starting a new business.

Speaker 31 She was a professional motivational speaker.

Speaker 16 So her sales pitch was bought on.

Speaker 33 She was super excited, and she talked me into

Speaker 31 being part of her, of course, amazing opportunity.

Speaker 32 She said she couldn't even explain it or she wouldn't. And I could be part of it for only $300.

Speaker 31 And she was going to, she was quite sure she was going to be making $20,000 a month before she knew it.

Speaker 14 And it was going to be so easy.

Speaker 32 So of course it sounded great to me.

Speaker 31 And I quickly signed on, not even understanding what I was signing on to do.

Speaker 18 Her website was literally swimmingincash.com. That was what her website was.

Speaker 34 Of course, it was just pictures of...

Speaker 11 her family and vacation places they'd gone to and no other information whatsoever except for 800 members that you could call for more info, which didn't really even give you anything.

Speaker 18 So within hours of spending my initial $300, I was on the phone with her and her supervisor. It turns out that what I'd done was to sign up to sell Herbalize.

Speaker 32 The phone call we'd had was to explain to me how I could go on to become a supervisor without even selling a thing.

Speaker 18 All I had to do was buy $5,000 worth of product and ended up me up to the next level.

Speaker 16 Their sales pitches were phenomenal. By the end of the call, I seriously couldn't wait to give them $5,000 so that I could, too, get in at the ground level.

Speaker 31 Of course, never mind, the Herbalife had been in business for years and there was no ground level left.

Speaker 24 Never once during the phone call did they mention sales or even the product.

Speaker 15 It was all about recruitment and building my team.

Speaker 32 When I during the call, when I raised objections to them that I didn't want to recruit any friends or family, they told me that I wouldn't have to, that they would teach me how to do it through classified ads in the newspaper, putting signs up, mailing out booklets.

Speaker 15 So at this point, I am now $5,300 in the hole.

Speaker 24 My business is up and running.

Speaker 24 That meant that for the next few months, I spent my time buying classified ads in target markets in newspapers, which in my case turned out to be Chicago.

Speaker 18 I was running ads in the newspapers that were anywhere from $700 to $900 a week.

Speaker 24 And then I was buying mailing lists that were similarly cost.

Speaker 11 And I was mailing out these booklets that literally had pictures of people in yachts and on vacations. And that was it.
There was no other information in it.

Speaker 24 By this time, I was about seven months pregnant, and I was also putting up signs around town.

Speaker 11 I was literally seven months pregnant and climbing ladders and trying to put my signs high enough so that other people wouldn't take them down saying, work from home, earn thousand a month

Speaker 11 never during any of this time it all told it was about four or five months never during any of this did I sell a single herbalized product or even really learn that much about the product I really had no idea what I was supposed to be doing and all I was supposed to be doing was listening to these motivational weekly and daily calls telling me how to sign new people up because the more supervisors that I signed up, the more money I would make.

Speaker 11 After having my son, I quickly realized this was not for me. I quit the business and was like $20,000 to $25,000 in the hole.

Speaker 26 I

Speaker 11 never, ever, ever have told my husband any of this. He has no idea.

Speaker 11 Hi, Jane Marie. My name's Amanda.

Speaker 10 I'm calling from Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada.

Speaker 35 I actually used to work in the customer service department of a multi-level marketing company here in BC.

Speaker 34 And let me tell you, it was an interesting couple of years.

Speaker 34 One of the things I had to do was stuff envelopes with commission checks. And so you would have a stack of checks as thick as your wrist, and they'd be going all over North America.

Speaker 35 And there was the same names that just kept coming up over and over and over again. And I started to recognize them.
There was maybe 20 or 30 names that would always be receiving checks.

Speaker 35 And we're talking hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars. And then there were other names that I didn't recognize.

Speaker 35 And they would be receiving checks for just the most insultingly minuscule amounts of money.

Speaker 34 We're talking 40 cents, you know, 10 bucks here, $15 there.

Speaker 16 And I didn't know why they were so low or what these people were doing or anything. And I just felt bad towards the end.

Speaker 36 My name is Billy Warren, and my experience with an MLM was a friend of mine called me with a great business opportunity, and I went to his house and sat down with him and several of his family and friends.

Speaker 36 And they started giving this spiel about this business where you convince people to change their

Speaker 36 phone service from one service to another and and Donald Trump backed this thing and then he showed a video with Donald Trump talking about this

Speaker 36 landline telephone that had a video screen on it how it was this great

Speaker 36 new technology and I'm thinking this is crazy they had these things in the 1960s at the World's Fair this is not big technology But I was just shocked at how gullible these people were.

Speaker 36 They were just eating this up because Donald Trump was putting his name on it. So when I got up to leave in the middle of this thing, my friend followed me to the door.

Speaker 36 He's like, well, why are you leaving? I'm like, you just need to snap out of it, man. You just

Speaker 20 Donald Trump would put his name on a turd if somebody paid him about it.

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Speaker 7 We do have one more call to play for you.

Speaker 4 It's an outgoing call. Remember, we promised to reach out to this lady?

Speaker 38 I'm really, really passionate about Limelight Palooza.

Speaker 4 Her name is Anjeti, and she's a Kardashian-adjacent-looking makeup artist from Philly.

Speaker 4 Last week, we played you a little bit of this YouTube video we found of her talking about the importance of Limelight Palooza, the annual convention that that makeup company puts on.

Speaker 1 Here's more of that.

Speaker 38 I almost didn't go to Limelight Palooza this year because one of my best friends is getting married that same Saturday. And I'm supposed to be a bridesmaid.

Speaker 38 And I remember crying when I found out that Limelight Palooza was that same weekend.

Speaker 38 And it was one of the hardest decisions I've had to make business-wise because, you know, my friendships are important and my business is very, very important to me as well.

Speaker 38 However, I made like a promise to myself that this year, no matter what, I was going to go. And so we both cried about it.

Speaker 38 She was crying, I was crying, but she's such a good friend that she was like, you need to go. So now I'm telling you guys what my friend told me.
You need to go.

Speaker 38 If you want to make some serious money in this business, you must go. I've researched this.
I study this. I've been in direct sales for a very long time.

Speaker 38 And I have failed in direct sales for a very long time

Speaker 38 because I never took conventions seriously. There's a pattern here.
I'm not going to conventions and I'm not succeeding. It's time to break that.

Speaker 38 Network marketing doesn't care about your past. It doesn't care about like how how broke you are right now.
It doesn't care if you're a single mom. It doesn't care if you've lived on welfare.

Speaker 38 It doesn't care if you finished high school. It does not discriminate.
Like success can happen to anyone in this business, but you have to invest your time and money in order to get it.

Speaker 38 Just get to convention.

Speaker 38 And I promise you, I promise you, you won't regret it.

Speaker 4 So we called Njetti to see if attending Limelight Palooza made all of her dreams come true. Is she rich beyond belief? You know, was missing her best friend's wedding really worth it?

Speaker 39 It's my biggest regret. I took her to dinner.
Like I was gonna break up with her.

Speaker 13 You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 This is not mentioned anywhere in the video, but it turns out that Njetti wasn't just any old beauty guide.

Speaker 4 No, she was a beauty ambassador, a special title for a handful of makeup artists/slash influencers who were recruited in the early days of Limelight to stump for the brand. She knows Jacob, you guys.

Speaker 4 Side note, we reached out again for his comment and he's just, he's so on all the time, even in his emails, so incredibly Jacob. It's almost enviable.

Speaker 4 It wasn't 100% clear, but we think he's listened to the show now, and he still has no interest in speaking with us. Maybe that'll change after he hears what M.
Jetty, his former colleague, has to say.

Speaker 39 So we, as ambassadors, we were required to go to the conference.

Speaker 7 Oh, you didn't say that in the video.

Speaker 39 Oh, I'm sorry.

Speaker 39 I'm sorry.

Speaker 13 Yeah, so

Speaker 13 we were,

Speaker 39 it was one of those things where it wasn't like written in paper, but the way they implied it was like,

Speaker 39 You are required to go, but if you're like, you don't go,

Speaker 39 it's going to be very frowned upon, and we're not going to know if we're going to be able to take you serious. And

Speaker 39 again, I wasn't just a beauty guy, I was an ambassador. I had relationships with the CEO and with corporate.
And so they were all expecting me to be there.

Speaker 39 And I look back at it now, and I think, oh my God, like, what were you thinking?

Speaker 7 What were you thinking? What were you thinking?

Speaker 39 I was just thinking that, like, if I did all these things,

Speaker 39 again, I was going to be,

Speaker 39 I was going to have all this success and I was going to have all this money and I was going to have all this admiration and

Speaker 39 I was going to be happy.

Speaker 4 So are you still with that company?

Speaker 39 No, I'm not.

Speaker 39 I was terminated. What?

Speaker 12 Say it again.

Speaker 39 I was terminated by them. Why? Corporate.
I was let go. So it came to a point where it was no longer fulfilling me.
It got pulled to a point where I was working so much, working around the clock.

Speaker 39 And I'm still young. So, I mean, I'm 29 now.
So at the time, I was about 27. So I still kind of wanted to live my life.
But some girls didn't see it that way.

Speaker 39 Some girls, they told corporate, you know,

Speaker 39 she's not doing what she's supposed to be doing as an upline. And I felt like I was, even though I wasn't happy, and I was starting to slowly pull away.

Speaker 39 Like at one point, I got, I told the girl that I was going to have business hours.

Speaker 39 It got to that because I said, I cannot be awake at 2 a.m. I mean, even your doctor has Google.

Speaker 7 Right.

Speaker 39 So after I got terminated, I went into a really bad depression

Speaker 39 and I developed pretty bad anxiety because I got terminated over an email. Never got a phone call from corporate.

Speaker 39 Despite having a very close, intimate relationship with the CEO,

Speaker 39 I never got a phone call.

Speaker 39 It was an email.

Speaker 4 So then what did you do next?

Speaker 39 So I did join another direct sales company. What?

Speaker 13 I know, I know.

Speaker 39 So one of my

Speaker 39 good friends in my downline, her mom was in Senegal's lipstick.

Speaker 15 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 15 And

Speaker 39 she's like, come on, Ann Daddy, like let's let's do it. And I'm like, all right, fine.

Speaker 21 So I did it, but after two months, I was like, you know what, this isn't for me.

Speaker 39 But then after that, she goes, all right, well, I just joined another company. And this company is going to create bonuses, and you're going to get these bonuses so quick.

Speaker 39 So we joined the name is Koove It, and they sell this keto, this ketosis drink, like a diet.

Speaker 7 Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 39 Which, by the way, it does work. And but again, I start seeing that same pattern where I'm giving it my all.

Speaker 39 I'm spending too much time on my phone. You know, and so then after that, I joined MCN.

Speaker 39 What?

Speaker 39 Yeah,

Speaker 39 Yeah.

Speaker 21 Yeah.

Speaker 21 I know.

Speaker 3 You're like a fascinating character to me because you really want it to be the answer.

Speaker 13 It seems like it's like it's like an addict.

Speaker 39 I'm like an addict.

Speaker 10 That's what it is.

Speaker 39 Like you're just like an addict. And like you got that taste of success.
You got the taste of the money and the potential and you see it and you know it, but you know it's not that good for you.

Speaker 39 Like you're gonna go after it anyways. So we're just gonna chase the neck high.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 39 Megan, if you're listening to this, I thank God you're such a special and understanding and forgiving, kind friend, because I think had that been done to me,

Speaker 39 I don't know if I would have been able to have been so accepting of it.

Speaker 4 Coming up on the last two episodes of this season of the dream.

Speaker 40 Well, thank you, Dick DeVos.

Speaker 40 Dick Johnson.

Speaker 40 Dick DeVos, thank you for that very warm and generous welcome.

Speaker 8 And what was enforcement like during the Bush era?

Speaker 9 Non-existent. A moratorium.

Speaker 40 And thank all of you for that welcome. You sure know how to make a fella feel a part of the Amway family.

Speaker 9 Clinton himself later publicized a video that was done for the Direct Selling Association, promoting it internationally.

Speaker 41 Three-quarters of you are women, trying to strengthen your families and raise strong children without the fear that a glass ceiling will hold you down.

Speaker 41 In a very real way, your work promotes our values all around the globe.

Speaker 9 They can look at the law and the judicial decisions, as I'm sure you have,

Speaker 9 from the last 35 years.

Speaker 41 I've followed your industry's growth for years now, and even I was amazed to learn that there are more than 100,000 direct salespeople in Russia and over 600,000 in China.

Speaker 9 I want to thank the leaders of Amway China

Speaker 9 for contributing to causes

Speaker 9 that make the communities in which you live a better place.

Speaker 9 Well, that's a loaded question, as I'm sure you know.

Speaker 7 I mean, I'm fine loading questions.

Speaker 3 I have no problem at this point in my research loading a question.

Speaker 9 And the trap is being skeptical of the business model only because it's a little bit foreign to you.

Speaker 1 It's not foreign to me.

Speaker 7 I've spent a year studying this.

Speaker 9 Well, you accused me once of lying, which I... I take great offense to.

Speaker 7 Back to your piece of- I'm not afraid of offending people. I'm a reporter.

Speaker 42 It's part of my job, you know.

Speaker 4 We offend people sometimes.

Speaker 42 I'm offended by a lot of what you're doing.

Speaker 9 If a person is purchasing $1,000 worth of toothpaste each month and suggesting that they are using it for personal use, on its face,

Speaker 9 that is clearly not doable.

Speaker 7 I'm not law enforcement, but in fact,

Speaker 7 when the lawies you represent tracking that are the companies you represent tracking that that's up to the companies to do it, that's up to you. You represent them.
No, no, no.

Speaker 7 You represent them for our government. You represent them for the people.
It is up to you.

Speaker 9 There's a presumption of innocence in our situation and our system of government, which I'm sure you understand.

Speaker 3 The Dream is a production of Little Everywhere and Stitcher, written and reported by me, Jane Marie, Dan Gallucci, Mackenzie Kassab, Lyra Smith, and help from Claire Rawlinson.

Speaker 6 We are edited by Peter Clowney.

Speaker 4 Our fact-checker is Michelle Harris.

Speaker 3 The Dream is executive produced by Laura Mayer, Chris Bannon, Dan Gallucci, and me.

Speaker 3 We appreciate you subscribing, rating, and reviewing the show wherever you listen.

Speaker 3 Hello, the dream listeners.

Speaker 1 Have you had a personal experience with MLMs? We want to hear from you.

Speaker 3 Leave us a voicemail at 715-600-0326 or send us an email at thisisthedreampodcast at gmail.com.

Speaker 1 Hey, dream listeners, it's finally here.

Speaker 3 The dream plus, where you can get every single episode of our show with no ads. It's $5 a month.
It's the only tier.

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Speaker 3 This helps keep us independent. And your contribution will help change the way every listener hears the dream.

Speaker 5 We'll be able to take out the ads that we don't even know are getting put into this show, which is annoying to both you and us.

Speaker 1 We're also going to have an amazing discussion board.

Speaker 3 The interface has it cataloged under AMA, Ask Me Anything. But I don't love rules.

Speaker 3 So, what I did is started a bunch of threads like ask Dan and I questions, general chit chat, just to make friends and stuff.

Speaker 3 And every time I've been in charge of a discussion board, I've made a tab called Women Be Shopping, and it's there.

Speaker 7 And we're just going to talk about what we bought.

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