Scaling a $4B Real Estate Empire from Behind the Scenes | Julia Spillman | EP 77

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What's up, the Entrepreneur DNA family?

The guest I have here today is very special.

She is incredibly smart, beautiful, but knows how to organize some crazy entrepreneurs like myself.

She is the CEO of the Eklund Gomez Group.

You might know these individuals from Million Dollar Listing Manhattan as well as Million Dollar Listing LA.

We have Julia Spillman here.

How are you?

Great.

Excited to have you.

Yeah, nice to be here.

Thanks for hosting me today.

Yeah.

You are dynamic.

You are the backbone of what most people see of the glitz and glamours on TV, but it is you who makes the whole ship go round.

I want to dive right into that.

Okay.

What does it take to be a CEO of the glitz and glamour of a high-profile business organization?

I mean, that's such a great question.

I mean, I think, one, it's a little deceiving because I definitely don't look like this every day.

I don't unfortunately wake up totally like this,

but, you know, get the benefit, especially in Miami, of having a great hair and makeup team,

you know, and a lot of great shopping down here.

But I think, you know, the big thing is, is it's just a lot of damn hard work.

And, you know, I think one of the things that we're always the proudest of is, you know, they announced this year, we're the number one team at Douglas Ellaman for the last decade.

And, you know, we really spent some time reflecting on that.

And I think at the end of the day, what sets us apart is I really really believe no one can outwork us.

And I think just because

just because you're number one, I think it actually makes it harder year over year because you know everybody's coming for you.

So how do we almost have to reinvent ourselves every year?

Like we've got to stay on the top of the marketing, on the business strategy, on the development world, on what we're offering our clients.

And I think that, you know, one of the many things that Frederick has taught me, I think one of the things we've benefited the most from is how do we personally make ourselves better each year?

Because otherwise, how are we going to do it in the business?

I think the thing I just recently heard, and I think The Rock is who said it, right?

He's what you were basically saying in a different version.

When you kind of reach to the top of the mountaintop, there's no more mountain necessarily.

And so I heard The Rock saying, when I got to the top of the mountaintop, all I knew how to do is build more mountains.

Right.

And I thought that was brilliant.

You're saying it in a different way is like, if you're at the top, everyone's chasing you.

Everyone's biting your heels.

But in theory, there's nowhere to go.

So you got to go reinnovate.

You got to go remake what you've done and do a new version of that.

So you have more mountain to climb.

Yeah.

And you've got younger, smarter hustlers out there that, you know, are using you and using your business as a case example.

And, you know, and sometimes they can.

do it better and they can do it smarter and they're, you know, they're savvier.

They're, you know, much more techie.

You know, they're all over the AI.

So I think that like we wake up knowing that again,

we can't stop running.

And I think that also, again, the reinvention of ourselves personally, also too, like.

we're getting older, you know, so like, what is, you know, if it's something within, and I'm seeing my doctor actually this week, she's down here for a biohacking conference on Friday.

And so I'm going to spend some time with her Thursday.

Like, how do we as people

keep getting healthier?

The anti-aging, you know, all the stuff.

Absolutely.

You know, so I think there's really like no area that you can kind of let down in,

which is a lot of pressure, but it's also super exciting.

Yeah.

How do you, you know, you've been a part of the whole journey with Eklund Gomes and most people have seen them on TV at one point or another.

Million dollar listing has been around for a very long time.

They've reached the pinnacle.

What have you seen kind of in the background for that journey?

What it takes?

Because I'm really leaning into helping people understand the personal brand side of things Absolutely right.

They are a personal brand you yourself are a personal brand What do you see in the background of that journey over 15 or whatever years has been on TV?

So I've been with them for a decade.

I started out, you know doing one of

One of their new developments in New York

So that was almost 10 years ago as crazy as that sounds then we almost didn't really know what to do with me.

I was a single agent at that time, but we worked so well together.

So we were like, okay, let's just like figure this out.

So I started running their new developments in New York, then ultimately became the COO.

And then, you know, really at that time, you know, a lot of people, there's a lot of like mystery around our business, like what it is.

And back in the day, you know, 10 years ago, it really was New York new development.

So I really pitched to them starting a resale business as crazy as it sounds.

Because everybody.

It's really crazy.

Like you you pitched that idea.

Yeah.

And, you know, John Gomes, who, you know, is known more for doing some of those bigger, you know, really big resales, loved it.

Fred, I remember at the time, was like, if you're so bored, I feel sorry for you.

And, you know, I'll let you do this.

And we laugh about it because he's like, it's one of the few things that he's probably ever been wrong on.

Yeah.

And, you know, now it represents over 50% of our business.

Of course.

And it's very much a feeder system to each other.

So that's what allowed us to really expand across the U.S.

and build all of these agents, you know, with us.

So, you know, I think it's just such like, you know, it's just such a journey is really like looking at the business.

And again, you know, I see it more as like a diversified portfolio.

And I think where agents get themselves in a little bit of trouble is like they're so hyper focused on, you know, I'm going to do south of fifth rentals or I'm going to do south of fifth high rises.

Well, once that movement shifts away from that, the business is impacted so greatly that then it becomes very hard to keep those numbers up yeah so we really tried to figure out how to like juggle the business where something is always hitting in season so like now you know miami's had quite a run obviously we're starting to slow down obviously us here live from miami it's a little nasty out yeah um but now new york is on fire were you guys doing a lot in miami yep miami was a really really great season for us um you know again our folks when you say season what does that mean is that a year-long season or is is it a two or like, so I know Miami's been great since COVID, right?

For obvious reasons.

New York's coming down here.

California is coming over here.

All the different things for political, right?

Well, the high is really on Miami and as you're saying, and every facet.

That's right.

You know, so I think the traditional season really was almost like Thanksgiving holidays to before F1.

F1 then extended that season kind of mid-May.

I mean, we had a really great last couple of weeks, but because so much focus is on the new development space, you know, our projects like The Shore Club,

Ritz, South Beach,

Paragon, like they've been incredibly, incredibly busy, you know, even as lately as of this week, which we're, you know, really proud to say.

Yeah.

So, you know, I think now, of course, the focus is shifting a bit.

LA is a bit more on the board.

New York's a bit more of a focus.

But for us as a broker, brokers thinking this more as like a business, because again, I think that so many agents think of it as an individual cell.

Yeah.

And it's kind of like, okay, I'm going to do this and I'm going to run to the next, but how do you really kind of create a pipeline?

How do you create a diversified portfolio?

And that is branching out.

You know, again, not every agent is going to have a national expansion like us.

Right.

Again, in hindsight, and I just got my Botox done by my amazing plastic surgeon.

So I don't look as stressed as I usually am with it.

But I mean, it took a lot out of us.

And I think because we were the first team to do it, we didn't know what to expect.

Yeah.

We definitely didn't have anybody warning us that we were completely insane in doing it.

And in hindsight, we probably wouldn't do it again.

But now we have this juggernaut of an amazing machine.

Let's talk about growth.

You know, being the CEO, you're the operational side to what I would call, because of the popularity on TV, the glitz and the glamour.

Not saying they don't work, just like that's what they're more known for.

You're going to be behind the scenes making it all put together, right?

They stir up a lot of dust.

You corral the dust.

When you go in for a new venture and it's a bigger venture and you're, you know, like, okay, let's go go national.

Let's go build this out.

What kind of like, I think people need to understand the financial undertaking that takes, the commitment for the personnel.

Like you got to be fully committed to make project work.

You have to be fully committed.

Talk to us about expansion or growth or putting up a new venture.

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No.

Right.

Well, as always, you know, you got to spend money to make money.

Amen, girl.

And it's very difficult to, you know, put a lot of money behind something that there's no proven track history of.

Then you got to talk about opportunity loss

so if we're you know the number one team in new york and now we're focused on la

we actually really struggled with we lost several big agents because they were like guys we love you and you're family to us but like you're on a plane like we we're not seeing you like we do believe in what you're building but we don't really want to be there during the construction

and it's interesting um almost all of those agents have now returned to us.

And for me, again, as the CEO and kind of again, like a bit of like the mother figure, it was probably one of my more proud moments because to me, it was the ultimate test of like, we did it and what we were saying that we were going to do worked.

Yeah.

You know, because I think also too, like when you're nurturing like younger agents and you're growing up with them, and again, a lot of them, you know, I wasn't.

this agent 10 years ago.

You know, I was a very young agent in the business without a lot of experience.

So we all kind of grew up a bit together in Eklin Gomes.

And I think to see them like leave us was really hard on me.

So now to have a lot of them back, you know, because they're like, wow, it really worked and you guys did it.

And, you know, we want to be part of it because we started it with you guys.

And that really honestly was like very touching.

Of course.

You know, on a, on a personal level, but also on a professional in the sense of like, wow, this crazy thing did work.

And, you know, we learned.

So I was on a call with a friend this morning and he was like, well, I wish so-and-so would approach just the way you do.

And I said, well, it's not that I'm like so great at it.

I've just done it so many times that statistically I can kind of figure out how this is going to play out.

So I do think when people say,

you know, it is about experience, it really is, because I had no business running Joan and Fred's business 10 years ago.

Now I feel incredibly confident.

You guys were like, they weren't who they are today.

Right.

So it was a journey that it was a combined journey of that growth.

Yeah.

Right.

You know, and they, you know, I have to give them a lot of credit.

They took a very big risk on me.

I, at that time, never sold anything over, I mean, $7 million,

you know, and these guys are known for selling 20, 40, 90, now $100 million plus properties.

You know, I had worked on a lot of condo conversions, but hadn't done, you know, the five-star brands and things that they were known for.

So I had a lot to learn.

I think that's why when people use the term fake it till they make it, they think me of all people are going to be like almost like annoyed by that term.

And I'm like, no, I am the definition yeah of that term you know i think we all are to some extent i mean right to to the extent they are too yeah you know they were able to talk about who they were going to be to the point of now they are those individuals right um

i wanted to highlight the branding of what the tv show can do yes there's a lot of like negative connotation around that too and i think sometimes for me as a woman you know like i was i was actually thinking about you know some of the stuff we're going to probably talk about and like

you obviously, I have respect for everybody in this industry.

Everybody's got a different way of getting to ultimately where they want to be.

And I'm not going to knock that hustle as long as it's ethical.

And I think one of the interesting things, it's like, like you look at selling Sunset.

And I know a lot of those women, you know, obviously are more actresses.

Obviously, you know, the brothers have an amazing business and, you know, we adore them.

They're great people.

But it is sometimes hard to see, you know, six girls in mini skirts and six inch hills, you know, laughing in a walk-in walk-in closet.

You know, I have never done that,

you know, in the 14 years I've been in this business.

So I think sometimes where it's really hard and, you know, to give you a little backstory, you know, because again, everybody sees who I am now sitting in the seat.

I'm a girl from Kentucky.

I mean, we didn't in the five, I mean, I'm stretching using the word town, the little like villages that we lived in, we still to this day don't even have a stoplight.

We have two, actually it was corrected, we have two flashing caution lights you know in the whole county yeah so we didn't even have a private school that you could go to anywhere within you know hours of where you know we grew up so i think for me it's like it's such a change of like how i grew up but i think you know those have been incredible vehicles and if you look at you know, Frederick and what he has done on those shows, but most importantly, we took that as a marketing opportunity and packaged it and made it into a billion dollar business.

Do you have much to do on that side of his world or are you just strictly the real estate, strictly the brokerage?

I mean, anything that he's involved in,

I'm involved in.

But, you know, I would never want to take any credit away from him because he was doing all of this when I got in the mix.

So it really was like, you know, I look at the two of them and I'm like, the amount of raw talent between the two of them was just amazing.

They just didn't have the business back end built of them.

And I always use this as an example.

When I started the Seaport project with them, they gave me a list of, I'll never forget, it was like 321 names and, you know, to call, to start scheduling appointments with.

Many of them didn't have brokers.

And we went through all of it.

And I had done a lot of condo conversions in that area.

And that's why ultimately I, you know, I got the job with them.

So I knew a lot of those individuals and stuff.

And I said, okay, guys, we've said all these appointments.

We've sold a huge part of the business.

What do you want me to do with this list?

Because I wasn't on their team technically at that time.

And Fred would always tease me.

He's like, what's your obsession with this Excel list?

And I said, do you know how many top brokers have built their entire business off of lists that are one 100th of the quality of this?

And I said, wait, you guys really aren't working any part of that.

And then, you know, and again, that's how the resale conversation came is like, we have, because of our access to new development, you know, access to so many buyers.

And, you know, again, we've been so great with selling, you know, all of these new developments, but there's so many people, as you know, like they get so excited about a new project and they walk in, they're like, oh, wait, we need something this fall.

You know, so we were able to service so many people by virtue of our access to these new developments across the country.

So it really was, again, how do we start thinking of this as a business instead of one building?

And then with the building, I always say with the listing, you should sell that listing and at least three others, you know, and it's like, it's really, again, it's, it's stopped thinking of anything as a singular thing and thinking of it is how does it force, force, multiply within your business.

Do you and they still do personal production?

I do not.

I haven't, I always joke, I haven't shown a home.

Oh my gosh, in probably like six, seven years.

Yeah.

Now I'm super involved with all of our developers and obviously I'm super involved every day with all of our agents, but I, you know, I think

where I wanted to go is now they still do the production because at some level, they have to have the brand trust and whatever.

But the CEO, you know, we talk about a hustler to CEO.

They can kind of remain in a hustler.

I'm still the name, the brand.

I need to take the listing.

But they have a CEO running it for them.

Absolutely.

So when they get the

signed paper, they say, hey, Julia, here, we got the listing.

And I doubt that they're sitting in on each one of these houses, on every single open house.

Well, most importantly, again, I think my job, I always like relate my job to like the talent manager.

And I need to make sure that like their time is used in the most effective, productive way.

And honestly, like, you know, because a lot of people will be like, well, like, that's Frederick and John and like your organization is different.

It's not at all.

It's just we're 90 plus people doing exactly the same thing as every other agent is trying to do out there.

And it's like, as I always say, like, yes, our production numbers are in the billions and luckily in the, you know, in the four billions the last several years, but it's because we have a huge army of people working with us and helping us do all of the pieces.

But my biggest focus is how do I make them the most efficient every single day?

And again, that is completely relatable to someone who just started in the business doing rentals in Ohio.

It's you've got to figure out what is the highest and best use of your time.

And I want all the agents to obviously be able to be supported, whether whether it's marketing, transaction coordinators, assistants.

We're actually trialing, beta testing, a really exciting AI component that hopefully I'll be talking about soon.

That again is to make our agents more efficient.

Because at the end of the day, to get these crazy numbers, everybody has to be contributing and everybody has to be growing.

So I always say to my agents, because they're like, well, you're so busy and you've got so many people.

And I'm like, I have a vested interest in every single person because to get to the numbers, those crazy numbers that Fred loves to throw out every year that we're gonna do

I have to have everybody contributing to that so there's no agent that's going to get lost in the shuffle because I need you're a professional web creator who needs a platform that works as hard as you do Wix Studio is built for you whether you're a designer developer or marketer ready to amplify your impact build intuitively with advanced design features and AI powered tools manage your clients and projects efficiently from one workspace Scale with dynamic systems and fully managed infrastructure.

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Every single one of them.

What's the dynamic between Fred and John?

How do they play their roles?

And then how do you sit in the middle to make sure that they play in their sandbox?

This is kind of the running joke.

They are like twin brothers that just fight all day in like the best way possible.

And as we always joke, because you know, a couple of years ago, they asked me to you know be partners who i do own part of eklund gomes with them which you know is super super exciting but we were like okay well what do we do and i'm like guys i'm already represented in it there's the eklund the slash and the gomes and i'm the slash in all ways i as i joke i keep them together and i separate them as well so you know we that that's really the running you know joke with that but i think it's been so interesting to me because we run an organization that however you feel you can really say.

And I think it's, it's the definition of a safe place.

I mean, some of the times the things I say, I'm like, okay, guys, like, like now we're just oversharing, but I love because, you know, I was Merrill Lynch in HSBC before, so I was very corporate.

And they really got me to be one, a lot more vulnerable,

which is not my strong suit.

but also really have this amazing blend between the corporate world and more like the creative and look at things a little bit structured, but also organically and be a lot more nimble, especially than like the traditional brokerages out there.

But I mean, they're a riot.

I mean, we've got these text chains.

And again, it's, you know, Fred's an amazing, like we joke, like he's pretty much like a stockbroker in his free time.

So it's like stock tips, kid photos, hilarious memes.

all the business, the financials, it's everything on there.

And I think like they've really created, you know, again, most of my families in Kentucky, a really like family away from home for so many people, not just myself.

And I think that a lot of us have really found that in common that, you know, we are far away from home.

A lot of us, you know, Fred's from Sweden, like a lot of us don't have our families here with us, but like we are our own family.

So I know like a lot of times like people, when we talk about like the family aspect of it, you know, it does sound kind of cheesy, but it's very real because, you know, we're traveling nonstop at this point.

And, you know, we really enjoy being with each other.

And it's not just, again, me, John and Fred.

I mean, our COO, Susie, just had a baby and it was like, you know, like, again, we all like felt like we were like involved in that whole process.

I mean, she's been with us for 10 years.

I mean, she was like, like literally a kid when she started with us.

What happens when?

Let's talk about the content and the ability to grow a brand through not everyone's going to get the opportunity to do TV.

Okay.

Granted.

But talk about how the growth of content can really expand their brand, what it's done for them, but also the reality of what it is.

It is a job.

If you want to get out and you want to be a name and you want to be known and you want to build client base, you got to hustle in the content.

Well, honestly, I have so much respect for, you know, like again, let's use Deanna as an example down here.

I mean, she, those videos,

I mean, she,

it's a full-time job.

Yeah.

I can't even imagine.

I mean, she's obviously doing insane numbers as a single agent.

And then she's essentially like on location shooting non-stop, but it's part of the package of selling.

And I think if you can find an authentic way to really showcase who you are, because it's interesting, we did the last couple of years, we did more agent videos versus listing videos because I do think.

Someone's got to tell the story.

Now, one of the many benefits, you know, I'm very pro team.

I've always been on the team.

I can't imagine an agent not either having a team or being part of it because I also think real estate's a lonely business.

So why not do it and at least like have some fun in it, doing it together?

But I think it's really like this concept of like,

how do you tell your story?

Because everybody has such an interesting story.

Like, how did they get into real estate?

You know, now we're seeing a lot of people that are coming out of college.

I do think one of the many benefits of the show has been you have a generation of people that are like wow like i want to graduate college and become a real estate agent yeah nobody ever no no one ever no one ever that's right you know so it was almost looked down upon i'm 44 so like i went to ucla i literally called friends thinking i was going to get into real estate and start a real estate brokerage like yeah but you you don't even need a degree for that it was almost like yeah but you're dumb if this didn't work out maybe this will and you know again i came from merrill lynch so people were kind of like wait of course Are you confused?

Like, what, you know, like, what's going on?

And again, I try to look at everything as like the opportunity zone.

And I think, you know, 14 years ago, when I moved from, you know, more of the real estate banking side to here,

there was so much opportunity because there wasn't that kind of like, you know, again, I'm from Kentucky, so I wouldn't call myself super educated, but there wasn't that kind of like corporate level.

And it's interesting, a lot of our shop is former Wall Street kids that really wanted.

Now, again, I always say the joke's on us.

We wanted flexibility.

I mean, I've worked more than I ever worked now.

But again, it's like, I feel like I have some like odd flexibility in it.

So it's like, you know, I think just not eating breakfast, lunch, and dinner in the office was like a big win for us, you know, but I think the more that you can tell people like who you are, what you stand for, and I think add in like the layers of personal.

It's interesting because on Frederick's Instagram, he gets, you'll see on his grid is more family stuff and in his stories is more real estate.

And he gets the most engagement when he's really showing who he is.

Family.

You know, I say the same thing is, is people need to know who you are.

Yeah.

Because otherwise,

they're just not going to transact in the same way as you, right?

To some extent, when you become a name, you wear a name.

So everyone knows Eklund.

But if they don't really know who you are, the buy-in is less.

Does that make sense?

And I think, you know, the dimension of the family, the kids, you know, his amazing husband, Derek's like art.

And, you know, I think there's, it makes him, I think, especially too, once you cross the lines of like being a celebrity or brand, like,

are you a real person?

You know, and it's like, what, you know, like, who, who is this person actually?

And I think people really enjoy.

You know, again, there's nobody that works harder than him.

I can attest to that.

And it's interesting, you know, to see that again, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, Fred's always on vacation.

And I'm like, I don't know if I'd use the word vacation because one, he's on 13 Zooms and we're a different time zone.

But, you know, for us, like, I think one of the big differences that has really set our brand apart is instead of waiting for people to show up at the open houses or, I mean, nobody reads listing e-blast anymore.

It's like, I.

I've like unsubscribed from so many, so I can just get through emails alone, put them in a folder, and then somebody will look through them.

But I think for us, it's like, we're taking these properties and our new developments on the road.

And if you're not putting this in front of consumers,

they can't consume everything that's out there.

Do you guys track as a CEO?

Do you track metrics, obviously?

Do you track metrics on anything that was sold through social media posting?

You do.

I mean, you know, again, I think with real estate, it's all about touch points.

And I think statistically, it's like four or five touch points before you actually get something from it.

So we're aware, though, that that's a major consumption point.

And we used to think that it was only the younger generation and that's definitely not the case.

You know, one of our biggest clients was actually sourced through social media.

And it's, you know, again, someone you would one not think that was on social and would definitely never interact in a business capacity through social.

But again, I think that that's where the connection was made and solidified to like, who are we as individuals?

You know, because I think people want to be doing business with good people, especially in this day and age.

And I think, unfortunately, as much as Miami's amazing, it is known for kind of having a little more sketchiness.

And that's been a very hard change for Fred and I down here personally, because we've never interacted with that in New York.

New York is

very transaction-based and it's very vetted.

So it's not like you're going out and socializing with individuals for a long time and then maybe doing a transaction.

It's about the transaction.

They don't need to do

black and white.

Just get it done.

But that's the northeast.

So Miami, I've heard, is a very sunny place with very shady people.

And I got here and someone told me that when I first moved here, I moved here in 2021.

And I laughed just like, I'm like, that's really good.

Yeah.

That's really good.

Right.

And so, and I haven't done a lot.

I live here now, but I live here because I married.

My wife was from here.

She's Cuban.

We had kids, et cetera.

So I've had the fortunate lifestyle to be able to do that and live in a very expensive area.

But,

you know, I'm not anywhere near Eklund Gomes in terms of fame and what they've been able to build.

But I will tell you, business owners understanding the value of

strategic content.

So this podcast has done very, very well.

Our mutual friend Aaron is, this is why he said you need to have Julie on.

I was so excited, pressed to be because of this, is I have an opportunity because what I've done for years without the limelight, now I've caught traction.

Now I have the

market and it literally is, I just kept going.

Yeah.

And I kind of want to dive into that whole concept is this podcast put me on a platform now where people are excited to be on my podcast that I would never be able to get on a podcast before, right?

But it's because I kept going.

I kept faking it.

It's going to be big.

This is going to happen, right?

Talk to us about that concept, specifically being a female.

Yep.

I think it's a conversation people try to avoid, but I'm just going to hit it head on because the reality is

you are a boss of a multi-billion dollar organization and you are a female.

And what does it take?

And what do you go against?

And what kind of discriminatory stuff do you deal with?

And what kind of like, I want to use the word hate, but like, I'm sure there's people that think it could be or should be a man's job to run that type of organization.

You know, it's so interesting because, and as a man, you know, I'm so appreciative of you even bringing it up because I think it, it's so interesting because I think it's like one of the greatest things is being a woman in this industry.

And I think about, you know, I think about so much like the dynamics of stuff, the things that I think that billionaire especially would not allow maybe a straight single man to say to him, a woman definitely can.

And with developers, you know, like, I think we have the ability to

say things and to do things and our ability to multitask that maybe a man wouldn't be able to push as much as we can.

I think there's, if done correctly, a grace and a tasteful way to deliver anything that again, the ego never interacts with us.

So where maybe again, if, you know, I'm just using a straight man said something in a more, you know, direct, pushy way to a billionaire, he would be like, well, what do you know?

And they're not going to say that to a woman.

And I think that there's so many now amazing, amazing women in this industry who have paved the roads for women like myself from the absolute middle of nowhere.

With, and I've been having some voice problems, but I typically have a little more twangy accent.

Um, you know, that can get in there.

And I also think, too, it's a very different time where you can still be a sweetheart.

You know, I always say people are always shocked about like how approachable and easy.

I'm like, okay, guys, I'm just a

girlfriend can touch.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, and I still sometimes like, it's interesting because kind kind of like the group of individuals that mentored me i would always call myself kid sister because i think one of the biggest stepping stones to this job was learning a little bit about everybody's job you know because people are like how do you have the skill set to do this and to know everything and it's like i always say the number one thing was i was curious and i would ask people out to coffee i would say can i shadow you in an open house can i just observe this can i listen in on this call i promise i won't say anything i just want to learn And I never ask any of them for anything.

I really just wanted the knowledge piece of it.

And it's the biggest asset that I have because I have this like interesting knowledge of like, you know, to a typical agent, they'd be like, what would you do with that?

And it's like, well, you've run a huge organization with it.

But I think, again, as a woman, it's.

it's also taking ownership of stuff.

I think I used to be, you know, we all have our insecurities.

Well, one thing, because I am from Kentucky and don't have a fancy education, my grammar is like a disaster.

I always joke down here because people are like, oh, do you speak Spanish?

I'm like, guys, I'm still working on English.

So let's like not get ahead of ourselves.

So I used to be very self-conscious about saying the wrong word or like, you know, my crafting of emails.

I mean, now we have ChatGPT of different things.

Thank God.

You know, we're just never at that level of someone that, you know, was producing at this rate.

So I started like just owning it.

Yeah.

So instead of being like, oh, gosh, they're going to think that I'm like so uneducated in these emails or something I say, I always joke like, okay,

we can, I can win the spelling B or I can be the top of sales.

So it's like sales are spelling.

And the second I took ownership of it and put it out there, like, I mean, I'll have developers be like, oh, yeah, you're, you're pretty bad on emails.

And I was like, yeah, but we sold that penthouse, right?

And they're like, yeah.

But the job got done.

Yeah.

So, and it's interesting because I think sometimes with like.

women, there's this like thing in their head that we've got to be like this.

And I think it's one, it's about being authentic and being real.

You know, I really struggled with with some health stuff that we purposely kept hidden during the expansion because I was worried that people might think like, well, can I do it?

You know, should we really kind of like rally behind her?

And then, of course, as we got on the other side of the expansion and thank goodness health-wise, I turned the corner, I became much more open about it.

And it was in, it was really like interesting to me how people were like, oh my gosh, you're a real person.

And it's like, oh my gosh, I've got all kinds of realness in me.

And, but I think it's something that, you know as a woman you you've got to make yourself comfortable in a room and i've sat in way too many rooms that was all men but i made sure that i felt you know and manifested that it was my place to be in that room but most importantly i made sure and opened doors so that more women could sit at the table how did you show up to those meeting you walk into a boardroom and you got i'm making up 10 dudes

10 men in suits and power and blah and the role whatever.

Again, and you show up.

Fake it till you make it.

Why am I not in that room?

Did you overprepare?

Did you study?

Did you, do you go like excessively, like no one is going to get shit on me in this room?

Well, I always say, you know, I never,

I never want to be in a position where I'm caught off guard.

Yeah.

And if I'm going to say something, I'm going to say it in a place of authority or I'm going to say, I'm going to get back to you, this and that.

So I always went into these rooms knowing that, again, the whole fake it till you make it.

And now, obviously, I very much want to do it.

You own it, by the way.

Yes, we're clear.

You run a $4 billion a year organization.

So I think that you made it yourself.

You still have to have that mindset.

Like, I never want to get cocky and think that, again, that I don't have to reinvent myself, that I don't have to prove that, not in a way that I'm a woman.

It's more in the sense of like respect for everybody in there.

And I think that one of my biggest things, because I had a lot of great mentors in the business.

I had a great mentor at Merrill Lynch that was a a woman, but I never had a woman mentor since.

And I'm very sensitive to that.

So if you look at the organization, my COO is a woman who, you know, has grown in the business with me, our CMO, you know, I

really want to be able to open doors that I feel like other women unfortunately didn't open for me.

And I think that if this group you know, this generation of women leaders do that and do it from a very authentic place, we're going to be in a much different situation.

Because I think, unfortunately, sometimes women could be the ones that push other women down.

So speak to the younger generation.

Speak to the

22, 23-year-old woman getting out of college, maybe a little lost.

The world's different these days.

We're all at that age.

But what do you pour into them for a second?

Take an opportunity to like say, hey, here are some...

points that I would maybe lead you and direct, you know, what would you say to that woman who maybe wants something bigger?

I mean, I think the biggest thing is curiosity like if you come from an authentic place and you want to learn from everyone i mean again you know this industry like we all love to talk about ourselves oh yeah we're like the best subject to talk about so if you take someone a coffee and just say tell me about yourself like it's just like just start and just take notes and i think enough people don't take advantage of that and it's very

rare that if someone asks for like a meeting or a call or something with me that I don't give them something or at least like I'll send them a bunch of podcasts and say, like, you know, here's some things where I gave some great advice on XYZ, because like we've all been there.

We've all started out at zero and still trying to get to the top or stay at the top.

And I think that it's a business that is very open and welcoming and that we all need layers of help.

So I think it's being curious.

I mean, I hate to say this.

I think that, you know, you can be beautiful in this business, but you can also be professional.

And I think sometimes Miami and LA may get a little confused on it.

It's interesting because I probably,

you know, dress less my age now than I, I dress like when I was in my 30s and even like late 20s, I was always very conservative.

You know, so I don't, I don't think that sometimes,

you know, I think you've got to think about what do you want to leave this person as their experience with, you know, and I think there is a way to still be very beautiful and dress conservative and, you know, be able to really showcase, you know, the education that you have in this business and what you can bring.

Now, going back to the team component, I think being on a team

is the best move you can make in real estate, especially for someone new, because there's so much that every team, including ours, needs.

So it's like, okay, do you want to be an intern, an assistant, a showing agent?

You know, and it's like, we've had so many people in our organization, myself, even being one of them, that's like, just give me a shot.

Let me start here and let me prove to you to grow to here.

And I always say, though, but you can't go in like asking what's in this for me.

That's right.

Because you got to bet on yourself that you're going to be able to prove that.

Show it.

Show it.

In 10 years, I never once have made $1 a salary from John and Fred.

Mine was.

Say that again for everyone.

I want everyone.

God, that is so meaningful to me.

Not $1.

My first development I did with them, even though we sold it at every single record, full ask, like hardly any concessions, I never got paid for it because the building never got done.

So, I mean, it did all that work.

All that work.

But it got me the seat.

That's right.

You know, so for me, it's an investment.

And I think that the younger generation may get a little confused on the investment and most importantly, the return on that investment.

Do you feel like the younger generation, I can go off on this, by the way, so we got to be careful on time.

Us millennials.

Oh, man.

So I'm like the last year millennial.

I'm pretty close there.

So I, um,

do you feel the generation, and I don't even know what it's called, like a little bit of this entitlement?

Because that's where I think what you're talking about is they feel like the entitlement to like, hey, if I'm here to join your team, well, I deserve what's in it for me.

How do I get to the CEO?

What is me, me, me?

And

us as the millennials, I guess,

it's kind of like, just, just earn it.

Like, don't worry about it.

It's there.

You have an opportunity.

Just earn the opportunity.

I had no, I mean, for 10 years, literally not a dollar of salary, because for me, my statement was, I'm betting on myself.

And if you benefit from it, I'm going to benefit from it.

And if you really look at, you know, how us as entrepreneurs and CEOs think of business, would you rather be in the profit or the loss category of a P ⁇ L?

And for me, if I was always,

as they were making more money, I was making more money.

There's never going to be a conversation of like, well, I'm never going to be a cost.

I'm never going to be a negative.

I'm never going to be in the loss column.

I'm always going to be participating in the profits, you know.

And I think that that's where people get

really confused in the structure.

Now, again, I know that's much easier said than done because, like, you do have to exist.

Yeah.

You know, and none of these cities, unfortunately, are cheap and are just getting more expensive.

But

if you bet on yourself and you do the work, you will get rewarded for it.

And I 100% think or 110% know that my decisions to bet on myself has made me so much more money than they, anyone would have ever paid me, even now, you know?

And I think that that's a big confusion.

And I'm a big tester.

So for me, if I'm going to sit across from the table, even like, for example, if you get an interview from me, I'm going to say to you, I know I'm giving out all my secrets so people know, but I'll say, hey, I'm traveling because I definitely am.

Reach out to me Friday morning and I'll get you on the calendar.

And if you reach out to me Friday morning, you will 100% get on my calendar.

The amount of people that don't, and then they'll follow up on Monday and I'm like, guys, no.

Insane to me, right?

You've literally, it happens all the time in the interviewing spot.

I am.

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Shocked.

So I have all these tests.

Another test is you...

You know, and I love to be on time.

And obviously, as you can tell, I was like stressing this morning because I was like four minutes late here.

um

so do they arrive on time and then i leave them in the waiting room and have someone kind of monitor what they do how do they how do they handle the if they're going to be rude to an assistant or a receptionist they will not work in my own business

you know because again the doors that have been opened for me have been from a lot of you know other CEO and chairman's assistants, not the actual CEO or chairman.

So it's like, you've got to think of every angle.

And I'm very big on how people treat others because I also think it's karma.

And I don't want somebody in my organization that's a bad eck.

That's right.

You know, because again, they're going to poison the well eventually.

So I always say, like, how they treat someone will eventually be you.

You know, so we're very, very big on how you treat others.

That and also I want to see like, how are they going to treat a client?

of ours.

Right.

If the client says to them, hey, I'm traveling, get back to me on Friday.

I want to discuss that next property, and they never reach out, that costs us money.

So I think that there is different ways to really test someone to see if like, again, they should even get in front of you because obviously our time is valuable, but it's really important to me to like, you know, because I'm such a product of, you know, people cheering me on and helping me out.

I do think, again, as a woman with, you know, like a story of mine and the fact that I really think that I've stayed, you know, someone said to me the other day, and it was probably one of the biggest compliments, they're like, you're the same person just with a really big job title.

And I don't know, it really, I, it made me really proud.

Yeah.

Because I think people want to know that it hasn't changed you, you know, and I think it's, this is an industry that is a little hard in that, especially again, when it's like the outfits, the hair and makeup.

And, you know, we always joke, one of my favorite photos with John and Frederick had this beautiful dress that, of course, was like loaned to us.

I definitely didn't buy it.

And I was was really sick at the time and I was really kind of like struggling with weight and water retention and all kinds of issues.

And so I was super nervous about this photo.

And it's when Douglas Ellman gave us the Icon Award.

And

I always joke, I really wish we had a behind the scenes because the dress didn't fit me.

I was like a nervous wreck.

So we would take the photo.

I'd have to literally not breathe, zip the dress up and we'd have to like pin it, take the photo.

And then everybody would have to like rush to like unzip me so I could breathe.

And I always joke because when I see that picture, it just stands for like all the crazy stuff that like we've done and tried to kind of like, again, especially as a woman, make it all look like, oh, this is like super easy.

You got to make it look easy.

Yeah.

You know, and people again, like look at my Instagram and like outfits and they're like, oh my gosh, it's so glamorous.

And I'm like, this is my least favorite part of the job.

Like that's.

I could sit in front of 10 billionaires and 15 developers and wouldn't be nervous because I am very confident in my business ability.

But when it comes to the photo shoots, you know, and I really struggled with that.

And it was interesting.

I kind of like chuckled when I put this dress on because, you know, I have so much respect for John and Fred and their vision for myself and definitely their daughters.

So long before I really should be standing as an equal to them, you know, they really wanted these photos to stand for the future of our industry.

You know, obviously John,

you know, John is a half-black gay man.

Fred is an immigrant gay man.

I'm obviously a woman from the middle of nowhere south.

And, you know, they said to me, these photos are going to represent a lot of like what the future can be for the industry.

And it's, it's really important kind of talking about that, like, you know,

the male-female component of it.

And we're going to go to the bottom.

We'll layer in the,

you know.

gay component too on top of it all.

Oh,

we've got it all.

Two gay men, different ethnicities.

You have a female CEO.

I mean, you guys have like the eclecticness

at the top.

Talk.

We don't have a lot of time, but I want people to understand there's no one size fits all.

No.

There's no recipe that says, this is how you're going to go be a billion dollar company.

And most our company is a great example of kind of like,

you know, wait a second.

It's, it's being done so different.

But even like something as little as like.

John Gomes was like, you know, I love when you wear like shoulder pads because he's like, it from like the optic standpoint, it represents that like you visually are an equal of us because you are.

And, you know, and I always like, I've always loved that like, that's how they've seen things.

And I think sometimes like I do have my Eklin Gomes glasses on, but I'm like, I do like the way that like those lenses

we see out of.

But yeah, I think it's, I think our organization represents a little bit of like the chips on the shoulders, the, you know, we didn't start on first base.

You know,

it's, I think that we always are kind of rooting for the underdog because it's hard.

I know, like, when people are like looking at us now to think, like, well, you guys were never the underdog.

We totally were.

Yeah.

All three of us.

Yeah.

You know, in every single way.

And I think that, you know, it's a little bit of like, yes, it's a overnight success story for me, 10 years in the making, you know, so people see, see this, but I always like say to our agents that are newer, I really wish you knew me when I was an agent doing condo conversion and rentals in the financial district.

Because like, that really is what defined me versus, you know, yes, I'm so proud to be who I am now, but I'm so grateful for kind of like all the bumps along the way that really have allowed me to lead this organization by knowing what to do because they, you know, because of making a lot of bad decisions.

This same old, like I say it like this, you have to give yourself enough runway to do the work

to become your version of you, or in my case, the version I am today.

I've done this for 12 years.

I didn't didn't have the status i have in the podcast space and content space until recently but you had to give yourself the runway and if you do that and believe in it you can end up being julia or justin or fred or dancing the big thing that you and i know you don't have in common is the discipline yeah and i think that that's the biggest thing that people aren't willing to invest in because you can create all these disciplines that allow you to be what we are now long before you ever are that people don't want to do they don't have the stamina to keep doing it.

Yeah.

Right.

They'll create the discipline.

Get all fired up because they heard Julio, they heard Justin.

They're all fired up.

I just met this incredible CEO.

She's amazing.

And then a year and a half from then, like, are you still disciplined enough to have

the discipline to keep going and do it and have the stamina to keep going, even though you don't see the results?

Well, here's a great example.

You know, Aaron Keith, our common denominator, you know, I still to this day, you know, I've been working with him on and off for about 10 years.

If you look at my calendar, it's set up exactly the way that we trained.

I have the time blocking.

I'm going to call him and check that.

Yeah.

Oh, he'll tell you.

I mean, you can look at my phone.

It's crazy.

I mean, people think that I'm an actual psychopath.

Like it literally says in there what time I'm picking up my packages and sending out returns.

I love that.

So for me, you got to use your calendar.

Oh, it is.

I'm actually a victim.

I'm bad at my calendar.

Oh,

I'll call Aaron.

There's an actual like place that I probably have to go get therapy one day for this calendar.

Like they joke that it's like my actual love language.

Yeah.

But for me, it's it's how you create efficiency.

You know, I am, I am known for my ability to multitask, but that calendar is the cornerstone of why I can multitask.

Like I, I think the biggest thing that if, you know, advice-wise, you've got to get up each morning because this business is a very reactive business.

So the more you can be proactive, the more you're already winning the day.

But agents have the tendency to kind of just like wake up and then, of course, just walk right into a disaster.

So there's not a lot of proactiveness to

the business because people are thinking again of an individual transaction versus thinking it as a business.

You know, and I think it's those, it's those small disciplines that, especially as the business gets so big, that makes all the difference in the world.

I should put you together a side combo, but I've been talking to a lot of EXP agents for the same thing.

They treat it transactionally.

They don't treat it as a business.

And they're they're exp agents and they are not eklin gums but again as i say every agent is just doing it at a smaller scale exactly what we're doing yeah or should be you know because there's there's nothing how do they get to this big scale you know i lean into and this is kind of where i was going with the content and the tv show because in my heart of hearts and and i haven't had the chance to talk to fred or john hopefully i will but like

Could they be where they're at today if they didn't have the opportunity to lean into the brand of them through TV?

Maybe.

I think, you know, again, we would probably be a smaller scale of the same because I think it's really also too, like one of the biggest misconceptions, I think, is everybody thinks our business is $100 million deals and buildings.

But if you look at the average transaction, I think for last year, we did about 2,000 transactions.

The average transaction is about 2.5, 2.7 million.

Like that's in an average means that's the hundred million and less to average out of 2.5 or seven or whatever.

So that's a big misconception is, you know, we have so many agents that are like, I just want to sell 20, 30, 40 million dollars.

I'm like, you're missing the whole business.

Again, if you want to do two transactions a year and you can somehow live off of that, it's fine.

But it's like, yes, the press is going to pick up the developments, the $100 million deals, the $50 million deals.

But what ultimately is building your book of business, because you should think of it, in my opinion, as building, you know, like a financial planner's business.

You want to start with them at the 401k rollover, and then you want to be with them when they sell the business and invest.

That's right.

And, but people get so caught up in trying to get to when they sell the business.

They've met so many agents and they've had so much positive experience and probably built a real loyalty with someone

buying a million dollar place, then renting something, then buying a Hampton's house, then getting their LA.

Like by the time they get to that $100 million transaction, they don't need you.

They've already got their guy or girl.

And I think that if you really focus on, especially as a new agent, going back to that,

being the best rental agent, being the best million-dollar agent.

So, you know, I used to do open houses non-stop and I would spend my entire summers instead of going to the Hamptons with everybody, I would spend most of the summers doing open houses in studios and in one bedrooms.

Yeah.

Because I knew those people would be clients of mine forever.

And most of those still do business with us.

You know, so I think, again, it's readjusting like the mindset to just do the damn work.

Girl, this has been amazing.

If you aren't yet following this girl, you need to.

I don't mean to call her a girl.

She is a woman.

She is a pop.

She is a CEO of a $4 billion annual company, the Ekling Gomes

Empire, but it should be Ekling Gomes Spillman.

Like I said,

I'm the line in between.

I keep them together and I keep them apart.

If this was good, if you think there's one or two people that need to hear her and her message and what she brought, make sure you share this episode.

I appreciate you guys.

Thanks for showing up.

Thanks for this morning.

Great chatting with you.

You too.

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