What Really Happened On January 6th

Speaker 1 Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Find Out podcast.
We have a great show for you today.

Speaker 1 We are actually joined by one of the Capitol Hill police officers that was there on the scene on January 6th and has been a true patriot his entire life. Harry Dunn is with us.
Harry, how are you?

Speaker 2 I look good to be with you all. Thank you all.

Speaker 2 I'm well. All things considered, right?

Speaker 1 Good, good. Yes.

Speaker 1 It's so funny. Anytime I ask somebody that, whether it's on the show or in person, because I live in New York City,

Speaker 1 it's the same.

Speaker 2 It's like, well, you know, considering.

Speaker 2 I know, right? We're standing, right? We've been

Speaker 2 grading life on a

Speaker 2 progressive curve since 2016 and then 2020. I'm like, I don't know, man, we're real low, but like relative to, I don't know, two weeks ago, like sure, I'm doing fine.

Speaker 2 Like, I mean, a day above ground is a good thing. It's kind of like, if you're not dead, right?

Speaker 2 Are you wheezing?

Speaker 2 I can't hear myself breathe. So that's a good sign.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, Harry, I want to get into your story and obviously talk about January 6th, but as I was doing research, I didn't realize that you were drafted into the Canadian Football League.

Speaker 2 Did I read that correctly? I signed as a free agent in the Canadian Football League. Yeah,

Speaker 2 the uh the montreal alouettes um a short stint up there had two different two different seasons up there where i played um injuries kind of brought that to yeah that career to an end and um you know here i am now life life life life comes at you fast yeah

Speaker 2 offensive tackle

Speaker 1 yeah that's awesome and i think that's actually important to what we're going to go into because you are not a small person and you are

Speaker 2 my playing size, I was 6'7, 335. Oh, my.
That was like the best shape of my life. I'm like a fat old man now.
I'm like,

Speaker 2 are we all? I mean, same, same.

Speaker 1 But I think it's important to set the table for people for what we're going to talk about because I, you know, obviously we're going to talk about a lot of things that have happened past January 6th, but I do think it's, you know, for our audience, you know,

Speaker 1 take us back.

Speaker 1 I know this is not a good day in history, obviously, but like, give me give us a rundown of like, you know, what you were what you were supposed to be doing on that day and when you got a sense of things starting to go wrong.

Speaker 2 You know, what's crazy? Like, you know, we're, we're almost five years in January. It'll be five years since the January 6th attack.
And the fact that we still have to talk about it, right?

Speaker 2 Because it's one of the darkest, biggest days in American history.

Speaker 2 But also, one of the reasons why I have find myself continuing to have to talk about it is because some individuals are attempting to rewrite what happened,

Speaker 2 erase what happened, tell everybody what they saw with their own eyes didn't really happen.

Speaker 2 So that's why it's kind of ironic, something five years later, we're still talking about front and center,

Speaker 2 but that's why. But going into the story, you know, I was a Capitol Police officer for 16 years before I left the department in 2023, 24, to pursue my political aspirations.
But

Speaker 2 people didn't know who the Capitol Police were on January 5th, 2021. They didn't know the Capitol Police had their own police force.

Speaker 2 They didn't know that January 6th happens every single election cycle. They didn't know that, but it always did happen.

Speaker 2 So this wasn't my first, my second, my third January 6th that happened where they certified the results of the election. It happens every single year.

Speaker 2 Capitol Police has their own unique police force.

Speaker 2 It's not security guards, although people may look and be like, oh, they're just checking x-ray machines and magnetometers when you walk through.

Speaker 2 I mean, we have canine officers, we have a SWAT team, we have officers that'll pull you over if you run a stop sign.

Speaker 2 We have all kinds of, we have intelligence sections, we have threats.

Speaker 2 There's a,

Speaker 2 hell, we operate a dignitary protection division, which is similar to Secret Service that escorts, that protects 24-7, 365 security for members of Congress, including, you know, leadership, the speaker, the minority whip, the lead, all that type of stuff.

Speaker 2 So, Capitol Police is not just like security guards. It's a very esteemed police force with a great group of men and women.

Speaker 2 And I would say over my career, I have overseen close to a thousand protests, maybe more.

Speaker 2 And when you see protests, I'm not talking about the extremism of January 6th or whatever.

Speaker 2 It could be three individuals out there reading a Bible in front of the Capitol to their members of Congress. That's protected free speech and considered a protest.

Speaker 2 From anything from that to the Million Man's March,

Speaker 2 the Black Lives Matter, to any,

Speaker 2 what's the big abortion right

Speaker 2 that they do every women's march or the

Speaker 2 one?

Speaker 2 The March for Life. March for Life, right, abortion, right to life, right to life,

Speaker 2 and everything in between. So

Speaker 2 conservatives, liberals,

Speaker 2 anarchists, I mean, hell, the KKK came up there protesting one day. So

Speaker 2 it's a life in the day of Capitol Police. All while doing that, our number one focus and our number one drive is to keep members

Speaker 2 safe so they can fulfill their constitutional obligations. That's our mission statement.

Speaker 2 So you weren't out there checking like parking tickets at the hospital parking garage. Is that what you're saying? This is not, that's not the job.
Well, no, we have people that can park it for you.

Speaker 2 So you better park where you're supposed to, especially in Capitol Hill. You will get a ticket.

Speaker 1 I can vouch for Harry because I have been pulled over by the Capitol Hill police in the past. I used to live in D.C.

Speaker 1 And I think it was in the mid-2000s. It was a few years after 9-11.
And there was a big no-no on driving box trucks up through

Speaker 1 on the house side and the senate side.

Speaker 2 There's two roads.

Speaker 1 I think it's independence and

Speaker 1 constitution on the other side. And, you know, me as like a, I think I was like 25 or no, I was 23, 24.
I'm drive, I'm moving, I'm moving to the hill, I'm driving my truck.

Speaker 1 And all of a sudden, the guys swore me and they're like, what the hell? And then I realized it and I was like, I'm an idiot. Yeah.
I will go all the way around.

Speaker 1 But anyways, they, they're, they're, they're, you know, if you live in DC, you see the presence, but generally speaking, you're right.

Speaker 1 Like, you don't see them and you don't, you know, think of all the things they do. Uh, but I think that's a good, so, so that's a good table setting for the next part, which is so on January 6th,

Speaker 1 you know, obviously there had been a ton of rhetoric. The president, President Trump at the time was still, was saying the election was stolen and raped.
Stop the steal.

Speaker 2 Stop the steal.

Speaker 1 Ted Cruz was getting up on cars and screaming, like, we're going to go to the Capitol the next day.

Speaker 1 Charlie Kirk bust hundreds of people on his own dime.

Speaker 2 You know, this guy that we're going to, you know, give memorials to,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 was doing all of this.

Speaker 1 So you're,

Speaker 2 so did you guys have any like advance notice that things might get rough was it a surprise or what how how did that unfold so you know going back and looking at all the social media posts you know based and seeing how things unfolded it's easy to see yeah maybe we should have but at the same time like i said we've over seen thousands thousands of protests um like i said the can't the clan was up there the people the second right amendment group have been up there before the million men march i mean inaugurations, where every demonstration, major demonstration, police are outnumbered.

Speaker 2 Like we just, we just rely on basic human humanity and decency that they're not going to attack police officers and storm the Capitol.

Speaker 2 I mean, if you look at that, that's the case across the whole country. Police numbers are outnumbered, but yet they're in control.
How? Because they got guns?

Speaker 2 No, because they believe in human decency. I mean, if every single armed individual in this country went against the police, the police wouldn't stand a chance.

Speaker 2 But we, we kind of, I mean, kind of like the military, too. I mean, it's like the same thing.
It's

Speaker 2 humans and civilians outnumber law enforcement. So looking back, yes, maybe

Speaker 2 there were signs there. Like I've seen things, I saw screenshots, hey, we're going to storm the Capitol.
Yeah, right, bro. Okay, cool.

Speaker 2 Talk a lot of shit.

Speaker 2 Right. Cool story.
Like, sure, good, good luck.

Speaker 2 But yeah, they weren't lying, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I was, I was one of the intelligence guys, like, infiltrating those extremist organizations, writing reports for the FBI, kind of like trying to, and my entire fucking field was, right?

Speaker 2 I wasn't alone in this.

Speaker 2 And, and we were more or less ignored. Like, it,

Speaker 2 I, I think that it's not just because the Trump administration effectively had everyone stand down.

Speaker 2 I do think that the threats that we were bringing forward sounded so unbelievable that people just simply dismissed them.

Speaker 2 And I think that was, that complacency was a big part of the problem of what happened that day and

Speaker 2 letting law enforcement not be prepared for what I

Speaker 2 knew in my,

Speaker 2 not in my heart, like I knew for a fact it was happening. Like I had, I had all the recordings, I had the videos, like all that shit.

Speaker 2 I saw like a screenshotted plan of action for they were going to occupy the capitol and surround it and they would have teams of snipers on buildings to take out law enforcement responding and you're thinking like shut the hell up no no way dude like you know but maybe it was their plan all along you know but

Speaker 2 I can tell you it was that was the plan

Speaker 2 right yeah I chalk it up to incompetence more so than a um yes it was a security failure clearly but I don't believe it was a setup as many people in some orbits have suggested.

Speaker 2 I think it was a total and absolute intelligence failure, but I don't believe it was set up by this orchestrated plot to make Donald Trump and his supporters look bad. Like, no, it wasn't that.

Speaker 2 Like, it wasn't like a secret Antifa member that was paid by the left.

Speaker 2 I mean, they've been saying that stuff.

Speaker 2 It's fucking ridiculous.

Speaker 2 One of the most recent reports that one extreme news group i'm not going to say their name has reported that a former capitol police officer was the pipe bomber like like like that's the

Speaker 2 listen i'm all for finding who out any bad players that did anything wrong bring their ass to justice i don't care if her last name is pelosi or their last name is trump i don't care if they're responsible for it but don't be out there just pushing this propaganda because it fits your narrative like give me a break well we've heard that it was a you know an fbi op

Speaker 1 all of these things, which it's like, well, Trump is president.

Speaker 2 Right. You know,

Speaker 2 if you told me, I don't know, 10 years ago that, that in 2025, the party that holds all of the government, every lever of power in government,

Speaker 2 was also the party that is systemically gaslighting police officers and intelligence agencies in order to protect criminals.

Speaker 2 And that they're also going to call themselves the party of law and order at the same time. And that people would vote for that.
I would have been like, what the fuck are you talking about?

Speaker 2 Like, that's that's a that's a dystopian, that's not even sci-fi, I would believe. Yeah, well, that's why we are.
Well, that's why the those talking points and reaching people where they are.

Speaker 2 And it's great, shout out to you all for the reach that y'all are doing because people hear stuff and they just believe it.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, Trump's for no, okay, let's pull the curtain back a little bit and show that he's only for people that are with him. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 If there was somebody out there that that loved guns and was anti-abortion and

Speaker 2 pro-tariffs, all that stuff, but they said, Donald Trump, you lost the election, then he would hate them. Yes.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Blind loyalty to one particular individual, not even topics. Right.

Speaker 1 Well, Harry, so at the start of everything, you were outside, correct?

Speaker 2 Yeah. At the beginning.

Speaker 1 So were you in one of those front-forward lines of officers when those barricades started to go?

Speaker 2 No, so my whole career, I worked on what's called the first responders responders unit, and it's always outside: hot, cold, rain, sunny, fair weather.

Speaker 2 Well, fair weather doesn't exist in DC, the humidity

Speaker 2 and 2000.

Speaker 2 Maybe like, yeah, we'll get about two weeks.

Speaker 2 Those weeks won't even be consecutive. It'll be like day, and then like three days later.

Speaker 2 But no, I worked outside first responders unit. And at that particular day,

Speaker 2 I was on a staircase, one of those upper, the upper steps

Speaker 2 with a rifle. I had an AR or Rock River AR rifle with me.
And it was just like an overwatch position. I wasn't on the front lines.

Speaker 2 Even most of that day, you know, we'll get into it, but I didn't suffer a lot of the physical injuries that a lot of my coworkers did.

Speaker 2 Because I was at a position of advantage

Speaker 2 with my rifle. And I didn't go into the crowd for fear that they would grab my and take my rifle.
Right. So I kind of just stayed back and just helped out with officers as much as I could.

Speaker 1 So, with all that going on, obviously, it becomes chaos pretty fast, right?

Speaker 1 Because I think they all kind of gathered and then they moved very quickly, which is why they put out this nonsense that, oh, we were actually, let's dispel this right now.

Speaker 1 A lot of them said, well, we were just allowed into the building by the police officers.

Speaker 2 What's your response to that? Listen, allowing somebody in and not being able to to stop them from getting in are two

Speaker 2 like if you got 500 people coming in one person two people are not going to be able to stop so they kind of made a a a business decision and said f that i am not getting trampled um

Speaker 1 so being let in is not the same as not being able to stop them let's be clear about that so so then when Obviously, the decision was made, which obviously, if you look at the footage, like there was really no other option other than to let them in because there were just not enough officers.

Speaker 1 So you see that happening.

Speaker 2 So is that when you start moving inside or what's the trigger to also real quick, though, back up, just the officers like falling back, it wasn't giving, it was a retreat to a position, a better position of advantage.

Speaker 2 You know, you're not just going to sit there. You're going to try to find a different area where you're more safe or you're surrounded by more officers.

Speaker 2 And there were more officers at the building, though, the wall of the building, the face of the building, and inside the building.

Speaker 2 So they were falling back to regroup with everybody else instead of just being out there in no man's land.

Speaker 2 But to answer your question, as far as like when I went in the building, so no, I, so Metro Police, um, we got it, I think to thank for Metropolitan Police showing up when they did because everybody talks about Capitol Police, Capitol Police, Metropolitan Police saved our ass.

Speaker 2 So, you know, you had, you had officers grabbing Metro buses, just coming.

Speaker 2 And while MPD was on the scene, the crowds just kept growing bigger and bigger and bigger. And they, Metropolitan, ended up being on the front line, mixed in with Capitol Police.
But we,

Speaker 2 a lot of the Capitol Police officers were in the building and on the building doors.

Speaker 2 Because the average Metropolitan Police doesn't know the Capitol landscape. They don't know the layout of it.

Speaker 2 So once the initial breach happened in the Capitol, officers were on the radio calling for, hey, we need help inside now. So I was like, all right, I know the building inside.

Speaker 2 Capitol Police know the building inside. DC Police doesn't really.
Hey, let's, the guys that I were around, hey, let's go inside because, hey, if they say, hey, I need somebody at H233,

Speaker 2 I know where that is, but nobody else is really going to know where that is. So I went inside.
That's where I, when I came, went inside the building. Okay.

Speaker 1 And then from there, did you go directly to Speaker Pelosi's office or how did that what when you went inside, were you seeing,

Speaker 1 I'm going to call them insurrectionists because that's what they were.

Speaker 2 You're not going to be able to see them. Did we see them?

Speaker 1 And like, what happens inside the building once you get there?

Speaker 2 So, where I came out is actually where the president usually walks out

Speaker 2 to take on the West Front on that big inaugural stage. And that was a staging area for where officers were, whether it was to refuel munitions, to get water, to get deconned, to get medical aid.

Speaker 2 A lot of vulnerable officers were there. Yeah, so officers are down there, and, you know, they're in a vulnerable state right there.

Speaker 2 Officers sometimes are incapacitated because they have been sprayed with bear mace.

Speaker 2 And also, thinking about bear mace, these individuals had raid and WD-40 that they were spraying. It wasn't just bear canisters and raid.
They were just... pelting officers with everything they had.

Speaker 2 So the officers were incapacitated in those states.

Speaker 2 Some of them had rifles also and they would set their ref white rifles down they would take their gun belts off so guns were in the hallway and obviously surrounded by officers within their possession but this was at this time a secure location so i run up the stairs to get towards where i hear shots fired um obviously that's you know fast forwarding a little bit where i hear and at the top of the staircase where these officers were um it was unguarded it was left wide open and there were rioters insurrectionists in the crypt of the building um just meddling around just they weren't doing anything but screaming and chanting and blah blah blah but at the i knew at the bottom of the those stairs those officers were vulnerable there were guns there there were munitions right and it would they would have been coming up from behind them so

Speaker 2 Also, another thing, the people that were in the building weren't screened. They had backpacks on them.
We don't know if they had weapons on them. We don't know if they had bombs on them.

Speaker 2 But from what I saw on the West Front where the most violence took place, officers were getting their ass whooped.

Speaker 2 So I assumed that anybody in the building was whooping officers' ass to get in the building.

Speaker 2 So I treated them as hostels. So I had a standoff right there guarding that staircase

Speaker 2 until

Speaker 2 other officers showed up. And then I ran into the speaker's lobby once officers came.

Speaker 2 I think that's the thing that's so important to call out:

Speaker 2 it's so easy to rewrite history once you know all of the information and say, Well, nobody even had weapons.

Speaker 2 You guys didn't have all of the, you didn't have the helicopter footage, you didn't have the crowd footage.

Speaker 2 Like, you guys are, you guys are people in a building, and there are thousands of people pouring into the building, like you point out, with like flagpoles and pepper spray and all the shit we know that they had, and then tasers in some cases, and then God knows whatever else in their backpack.

Speaker 2 And you're the only people standing between maybe those people and getting to actual elected officials. And you got to make decisions in that spot.

Speaker 2 You don't have all that information that, oh, well, these people are just peaceful or they're not.

Speaker 2 Let me

Speaker 2 step in here because

Speaker 2 not a lot of people know this, but there were a fuckload of insurrectionists who were carrying firearms who entered the building. Shocker.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I

Speaker 2 have

Speaker 2 researchers who were in the crowd who were standing next to them.

Speaker 2 Like like one would go to draw his weapon during a conflict and others would tell him no not yet not yet right yeah not not no not not yet get out of here but not yet

Speaker 2 right so so it's you know i i in the initial because i wasn't on the ground that day uh my initial emotional response was like why didn't the why didn't the law enforcement like open fucking fire when people started getting beat because in any other situation where cops are getting beat like that there there would I think, be an exchange for gunfire.

Speaker 2 But in that situation, it would have made things a thousand times a thousand times fucking worse. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 And there's no, there were not enough cops to stop all of the insurrectionists who had firearms. And also another thing, correct, and thanks for being there, Chris, also.

Speaker 2 But one of the other things is

Speaker 2 And law enforcement, and I've never had military training, but I assume, or, you know, you treat somebody like they have a gun until you prove that they don't.

Speaker 2 Like everybody's armed until you prove that they're not. The reason why people are able to walk around the Capitol without guns pointed to their head and because they go through security.
Right.

Speaker 2 Right. So we prove that they don't have weapons.
Nobody in the Capitol is armed under normal days.

Speaker 2 So when they talking about, hey, why is every when the officers weren't friendly? Like I got complaints filed against me because I was telling people to shut the fuck up and get the fuck fuck out.

Speaker 2 They're like, hey, hey, relax. We're peaceful protesters.
No, get the fuck out.

Speaker 2 No, the fuck, you're not.

Speaker 2 People like this, another, the right-wing web news,

Speaker 2 Officer Dunn was unhinged.

Speaker 2 He had to be surrounded by people. He had his, he had his firearm and his rifle trained, and they were worried that he was going to shoot them.
You should have been worried. Right, right.

Speaker 2 That is exactly what I'm saying. That's the point.
He crossed my brain.

Speaker 1 You shouldn't fucking be in there.

Speaker 2 You You should have been worried that I was going to shoot you. Because that's the thing.
These people were threats. Every single person in that building was a threat, period.

Speaker 2 Because not one person submitted to security screening and several of them trampled and beat officers to get in the building. Right.
So when they say, oh, well, we were let in the building.

Speaker 2 We were peaceful protesters. You could easily respond.
So you went through security then? Correct. Yeah.
And they go, uh,

Speaker 2 uh.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Because that's the only way you're let in the building.
What's your security? What miss me with that shit, man?

Speaker 1 It's like, look, you know, it's like what the Republicans have done with the woman who was shot and killed,

Speaker 1 trying to break into a secured location.

Speaker 1 And what I would say, like, you know, and I've been in the White House, I've been in the Capitol. Like, honestly, that's what you want the officers to do.

Speaker 1 Like, if there is an angry moment eventually, yeah. And they're screaming about, where is Mike Pence? Where is Nancy Pelosi?

Speaker 1 What do you think they would have done if they had gotten a hold of them, right?

Speaker 2 They were

Speaker 2 like a fucking gallows.

Speaker 1 They had a gallows out there. And some people were stabbing police officers with American flags.
I mean, the symbolism of that is just like insane.

Speaker 1 But I just like, and Trump has like talked about this woman, and I don't even want to say her name, like, but is like a martyr. And I'm like, no, she attempted a coup on the United States.

Speaker 2 Not even that. Not even that.
A lot of things, I don't, people that follow this know her family was awarded a $5 million fuckload of money department

Speaker 2 because, and what was, what were they awarded for? A wrongful death, right? All right. So, if it's a wrongful death, there should have been charges filed against that officer.

Speaker 2 There should have been, he was cleared by three different agencies multiple times that it was a good shoot. And let's be clear.
Let's be clear. Yes, she went through.

Speaker 2 That was the fifth or sixth police checkpoint that she breached. It wasn't like that was just her crossing the bike racks outside or going up the steps or then banging through the door.

Speaker 2 So three, four, going up the steps again to the speaker. That was like the fifth or sixth time she had bypassed security.
Right. And that would be final stop.
Now, listen,

Speaker 2 I'm sorry that somebody lost their life or whatever, but those are consequences when you do stupid things like that. Yeah, Ashley Babbitt

Speaker 2 was an American veteran. And she was a traitor to her country.
Yes. Yet the Trump administration, one of its priorities coming back into power, was giving her full military honors,

Speaker 2 which is

Speaker 2 which is wildly, wildly offensive to the hundreds of thousands of Americans who've died in the name of fucking freedom wearing a military uniform.

Speaker 2 She is

Speaker 2 and always will be a traitor. The military honors that she was given don't bestow honor on her, but they do bestow a shame on the entire veterans community.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
I agree 100% with them.

Speaker 1 Well, and it's sort of, to give people an example, it's like, you know, if you see, everybody could see the White House that there's the very long lawn, right? And surrounded by fences.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 1 would you like it if somebody jumped that fence, ran all the way to the White House, opened the door, and went outside?

Speaker 1 Or would you expect someone to have taken that person down about 10 feet before they crossed the same?

Speaker 1 I don't see how this is any different from that it's just they make it the first fence well they've there have been some jumpers they don't get

Speaker 2 the first fence but like yeah they don't you don't make it they don't get for they don't get very far i mean i like i like the fact that the capitol is open and accessible to people yeah i like that it should be it's the people's house you have the right to lobby your members of congress the people that work there work for you you're their bosses right so you should have access to them but you can't just have unfettered access just walking around like there are ways to go about and they know this like i'm not i'm not i'm not saying anything new or breaking they know this they know that there are ways to get in the capital and not one single person thought that that was okay

Speaker 1 reasonably thought that no one person thought that's why they were prosecuted that's why they were charged that's why they were convicted that's why they pled guilty right right so so i want to get to that oh go ahead luke go ahead well that's the interesting thing about a pardon you have to have done the fucking thing to get a pardon yep correct yep so so but let's i want to keep going through the day and i want want to come back to that because that is another disgrace that Trump has put on all of us.

Speaker 1 But so, so eventually, you end up in the speaker's chambers, right?

Speaker 2 Did you actually interact with the younger outside?

Speaker 1 Did you ever interact with her or the staff while you were there, or were you out front, like just basically making sure that nobody was getting in?

Speaker 2 So, I didn't know until afterwards, like a day or two later, after

Speaker 2 talking to people where you were, where you were, and this stuff, that while I was interacting with the group called the Oath Keepers, Keepers, which I testified in open court against on two different occasions,

Speaker 2 while I was interacting with them, I was also distracting them because

Speaker 2 a lot of her staff were barricaded in their office. I didn't know that at the time.
And they were actually being evacuated while I was distracting them, unknowingly distracting them.

Speaker 2 And it was, I didn't know that that was happening until, like I said, about two or three days later.

Speaker 2 And that's why I've um, Speaker Pelosi and her office and her staff have, and I have such a strong affinity for each other because you know, it was kind of like unintended consequences that I got them out safely without even knowing it, you know, right?

Speaker 2 Well, that's that, I mean, that's just effective mediation, right? Like,

Speaker 2 just de-escalation. I mean,

Speaker 2 you don't seem like an inherently violent person

Speaker 2 to do that.

Speaker 2 i see i told my

Speaker 2 like one of them the tweet bears man

Speaker 2 i told i told my wife this morning i'm not i'm grating until i'm not you know i told my wife this morning i was like we're interviewing um this guy uh who is a capital police officer and he's like six seven 330 pounds uh you know retired football player and she's like

Speaker 2 who the fuck would choose to attack somebody like that or choose to go for a bunch of sidewalks these guys these guys aren't the sharpest tool in the shed right yes

Speaker 2 so I believe in de-escalation too.

Speaker 2 Talk it out. I was a hostage negotiator.
I was a crisis intervention officer. We got trained by the FBI.
Like, that was my training. I was certified negotiate.
So I believe in de-escalation.

Speaker 2 I, man, when I go into scenes with people that are in crisis, I'm going in there without my gun, without, and this is what I do. But this wasn't.
that moment right there. Right.

Speaker 1 So, so Harry, you've mentioned before that there were, you did experience some physical altercations in some of these.

Speaker 1 Describe that because, again, I think it's really important. First of all, we're talking about like how ridiculous it is.

Speaker 1 We're talking about this five years after, but I do think it's important to remind people of basically the hand-to-hand combat that was happening on that day.

Speaker 1 So, could you just walk us through some of some of that?

Speaker 2 I was lucky. Like I said, I didn't experience a lot.
My hand-to-hand combat was a one-hitter quitter. Like, I knocked, punched a guy, a shove here and there,

Speaker 2 experiencing backs blowback and bear spray and mace and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 And I looked the next, after it was over, I noticed my hands were bloody. I had blood, but I don't remember where the hell it came from, but I do remember decking the guy pretty damn good.

Speaker 2 That's the extent of my hand-to-hand combat. Like, I'm not going to portray it like I was the one out there battling on the front low.
That was White House down or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 No, no, no. I wasn't fucking Jason Bourne out there.

Speaker 2 They all were in their heads. That's what they were thinking in their heads.
They're all the action stars. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 But what I did see and what I did do was officers that were out there getting their ass whooped. They were coming in.
And I was like, all right, find work. What can you do? These officers need aid.

Speaker 2 So whether it was applying bandages or tissues or to stop bleeding or finding band-aids,

Speaker 2 flushing out eyes and of chemical irritants so they can get back in the fight, whatever that was, that's what I was doing. But

Speaker 2 the extent of my, you know, like I said, because I had my rifle slung to me all day. So I tried to avoid people.

Speaker 2 So the extent of my hand-to-hand combat was a lot of just shoving, get back, and that one, one hitter, quitter.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, right, right.

Speaker 1 So, so the thing that probably a lot of people are, and I've wondered this too, is like, while this is going on, like,

Speaker 1 are you processing that this, like what is actually happening? Or do you just go into the like, I have to protect, I have a job to do, I'm in it. And then after the fact, you think about it?

Speaker 2 Or is like, what is that thought process like?

Speaker 2 I'm glad you brought that up because a lot of people credit these officers and me and my coworkers for saving democracy or, you know, like, that's a hell of a byproduct of what we did.

Speaker 2 Like, I'm glad that it came out and thankful for the accolades and the awards, but we were just trying to make it home to our families. That was it.

Speaker 2 Like, I just wanted to go home to my daughter, my, my coworkers.

Speaker 2 I wanted to make sure they went to their husbands and wives when they, at the end of the day, and I think all of us looking to the left and to the right of us, that's all we were thinking about.

Speaker 2 Keep each other safe and keep the members safe. Like, that's it.
Like, the election wasn't on my mind. And, you know, Donald Trump and Joe, that wasn't on my mind.
It's like, let's get home safely.

Speaker 2 It's hard for not to be on your mind because

Speaker 2 while they were there, the entire time, they were screaming, Donald Trump sent us.

Speaker 2 Donald Trump sent us. Okay, so just just to be clear

Speaker 2 yeah because i think this is a very important thing that people on the right still don't admit is that the the people that were there or a lot of them believe that donald trump sent them there listen to this man listen if the president of the united states tells you to do something Fuck it, you're going to do it.

Speaker 2 Listen, man,

Speaker 2 if my mom tells me to do something, I don't care what anybody says. I'm doing what mom said.
Like, I don't care what anybody says. Mom, what mom says goes period, point blank, period.

Speaker 2 However, if the president tells you to do something, you're not going to feel emboldened.

Speaker 2 Donald Trump told us to. It's on tape.
Go watch to save the country. The president told you what to do.
Right.

Speaker 2 Donald Trump convinced them that he was coming there to physically be present to back them up.

Speaker 2 They believed that they were paving the way for their fucking golden calf to come up the stairs and be fucking carted into that room and be sworn in as the next president.

Speaker 2 That is what they were there for. Now, like I said, right or wrong, like, well, wrong.
They know right or wrong. Wrong.
They were wrong. But also, like I said, Donald Trump told them to.

Speaker 2 So listen, I get them following orders, so to speak, but you're also a grown-ass man or woman who has to make a educated decision. Be like, wait a minute.
So I don't have sympathy for people.

Speaker 2 You know what? There were people there.

Speaker 2 And a lot of people use this as a defense in court we got caught up in the moment you know what you probably did you're you're right that is not an excuse though nope i grow up

Speaker 2 probably

Speaker 2 you have to be accountable for your actions yeah i mean i got caught up in the moment when i was eating that bag of doritos last night i mean i hate the whole thing but that you know i'm i still got to work off those calories it's not the same

Speaker 2 well i was

Speaker 2 i didn't storm the capital i was gonna say it's so caught up in the moment i was gonna say harry i guess you're suggesting that these guys around and then they found out correct they did right but it didn't last though it didn't last because now for like six months yeah now they're being celebrated as heroes and right they're running they're running for office they're getting appointments and administrations jesus christ yeah well and also being and also being rearrested too for other crimes

Speaker 2 or or or killed yeah one of them was just straight up shot

Speaker 2 at least one has gotten a second pardon so that did

Speaker 2 happen this weekend yep gave a double pardoned Pardoned a guy and a woman for threatening to kill the FBI that their pardon from January 6th did not cover.

Speaker 2 But Donald Trump repardoned them to include that. And it's just sickening.
I mean, you have the Proud Boys. They have a $100 million lawsuit pending.
I don't know where the status of that is.

Speaker 2 Now they filed 100 million. So they're being rewarded.
And meanwhile,

Speaker 2 I quit my job four years short of a pension, a full pension, you know, and officers are being forced to retire. And I mean, I had it great, you know, as an office.
I love it. But

Speaker 2 well, I want to talk about lost dudes left and right. I want to talk about this because I think it's important that

Speaker 1 people,

Speaker 1 you know, the right tends to say, well, the only person that died on 9, on January, I almost said 9-11. On January 6th, that's a whole other thing.
On January 6th was one of ours.

Speaker 2 But that's not really true, right?

Speaker 1 Like, there were, I mean, I think two or three officers who later took their lives,

Speaker 2 which the four or five total

Speaker 2 have died related to the

Speaker 2 five officer-related suicides. Um, and that's something that's been near and dear to me about mental health and everything like that.

Speaker 2 Like, people carry a lot of burdens and struggles with them, and people only seem to care after it's over. They'd be like, what the hell happened?

Speaker 2 Because I think, as society, and you know, not taking it as on a whole nother topic, but I think it's important. Society expects people to just be tough and strong.

Speaker 2 Especially, especially when with going through arguably the worst day of your life,

Speaker 2 people telling you that it didn't exist or you were responsible for it. So a lot of people carry a lot of heavy burdens about that.

Speaker 2 And it's not fair. But yes, Ashley Babbitt did die at the hands of law enforcement that day.

Speaker 2 Roseanne Boylan died that day. I think the medical examiner said she had like a heart attack.

Speaker 2 I don't know. She was trampled, a whole bunch of other things.

Speaker 2 But Brian Ticknick

Speaker 2 died. An officer, the Capitol Police, a Trump supporter, died.

Speaker 2 And he

Speaker 2 died from two, he had two strokes the night of January

Speaker 2 into the mornings, because a lot of people didn't leave to after midnight. So January 6th, technically January 7th, the day was still ongoing for us.

Speaker 2 But he had two strokes, and that's what the medical examiner concluded. The cause of his death.
Well, Brian was in tip-top shape. He was one of the bike officers.

Speaker 2 But also, deep in the bottom of that report, which I really disappointed the way the medical examiner wrote it, was that the events of January 6th contributed to the cause of his death.

Speaker 2 But I don't think that that's buried so damn down at the bottom of the report that MAGA only sees

Speaker 2 officer died from two strokes and natural causes.

Speaker 2 Well, it's like how they say, like, well, you get stabbed in the throat and the report says you died from blood loss. No, you died.

Speaker 2 You died from getting stabbed in the fucking throat.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 point blank,

Speaker 2 if those guys stayed home, if January 6th didn't happen, all of them would still be alive right now.

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 2 So, Harry, one of the things that people don't really talk about is the idea of moral injury. I think American culture has a pretty good understanding of what PTSD is, post-traumatic stress disorder.

Speaker 2 Something bad happens and you have difficulty adjusting to it, right? But moral injury is something that I think we don't talk about enough. I don't think enough people understand.

Speaker 2 And that is the concept

Speaker 2 of either witnessing or participating in or even hearing about something that violates your core values in a way that that

Speaker 2 shakes you. And that is something that I think many police officers, um,

Speaker 2 not just who were present that day, felt you know, they they saw all of the flags, the Blue Lives Matter stuff, the blue line in the American flags.

Speaker 2 They really believed that MAGA supported them, and then they saw Blue Lives Matter flags being used to beat their sisters and brothers, right? Yeah,

Speaker 2 and that uh, that like mind-breaking, belief-breaking incident can haunt somebody and it can result in things like self-harm.

Speaker 2 It does. It completely does.
I'm glad you brought up moral injury. My friend, Sergeant Akolino Ganel,

Speaker 2 talked about moral injury a lot, but also I think one of the biggest things outside of, you know, obviously the biggest thing is the loss of life, but creates this apathy where people just don't even give a shit anymore.

Speaker 2 It's just, and that's not even just officers, but every single American who watched it on national TV that day, everybody who watched, who gives a damn about democracy in this country and the peaceful transfer of power and the rule of law, everybody believes in that bullshit, right?

Speaker 2 Well, they call it, we call it bullshit now because this administration wiped their ass with it. It's kind of like they feel, what the fuck is the point?

Speaker 2 So I'm glad that, like I said, going back to giving you all your flowers, thank you for doing this because a lot of people that probably listening probably say, what the fuck is the point?

Speaker 2 I don't care.

Speaker 2 Why vote? It doesn't matter. Donald Trump's going to stay in the White House.
It creates this type of new rule and it crushes. It's kind of like when you find out that Santa Claus isn't real.

Speaker 2 It's like, yo, what the fuck, yo? Wait, what?

Speaker 2 I hadn't found that one out yet. Thanks for the spoiler.

Speaker 2 I probably said that

Speaker 2 my daughter's not here. Man, fuck.
Dude, I still believe in Santa Claus. I drive.

Speaker 2 The fuck's coming. Christmas Eve, Christmas Eve.
midnight, I start looking up in the sky like, I know. I'm like, there's this slate.

Speaker 2 I think there's this thing, there's this trajectory as a parent, right? Where like you're a kid and you believe all the magic, and then you're a teenager, a young adult, you don't believe the magic.

Speaker 2 And then when you're an adult, you're like, I got to make the fucking magic. Like, we got to have the magic because there's not a whole lot left.
Faith in humanity is broken.

Speaker 2 Faith in patriotism is broken. Faith in my career maybe is an issue.

Speaker 2 But man, at least there's, I like the Santa Claus and Easter bun, like wildly underrated.

Speaker 1 Well, Harry, there's a, there's another one. Now, so after all this happens, and we have, you know, the January 6th Commission, and you participated in all on the hearings and things like that.

Speaker 1 Were you surprised or not surprised that essentially no Republicans, I mean, I guess there were 10 that voted for impeachment, but that they

Speaker 1 basically put their tail between their legs and went and hid on this?

Speaker 2 Well, so I think this was like the awakening of my political

Speaker 2 rising or whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 2 I would always, as I grew, and in my book, I wrote about growing into the job.

Speaker 2 So, you know, all about law enforcement first, but now I'm curious about the votes that they're taking. I didn't care about Medicaid and Medicare when I'm 24 years old.
I don't give a damn.

Speaker 2 I got a great paycheck and I can buy a round of drinks for girls at the bar. Like, I didn't care.
Like, that's all I cared about. Like,

Speaker 2 I'm cool. But as you start to grow up and you get a little older, my parents are wondering about their health care.
And, hey, wait, I just bought a house. What do you mean?

Speaker 2 I got to pay extra taxes on it. So it started paying attention to shit that actually matters.
So I grew into the job. So I was always aware of the, became aware of the political culture.

Speaker 2 And then obviously when Donald Trump came around, he created this environment where it became cult-like more so than just doing what's best for the people and your constituents.

Speaker 2 So I started to pay, and I would expect the members of Congress, I did have higher hopes for them that I did have, especially because he was an outgoing president. Like, hey,

Speaker 2 outgoing, you know, break your ties from him and, you know, fight back and do better.

Speaker 2 And everybody was immediately after January 6th. I mean, you had Lindsey Graham, Donald Trump's biggest blow, well, I mean, supporter, whatever.

Speaker 2 You can go for it. His biggest supporter

Speaker 2 saying, I'm done with him. I'm through with him.
I'm wiping my, I can't, this is it. Kevin McCarthy, all of them said the things on the house floor.

Speaker 2 We're done with this guy, Mitch McCarthy, every single one, right but slowly after time it wasn't even really slowly like it was kind of like it lasted about like two three weeks and then all of a sudden it's like wait a minute what the fuck because they saw they they chose politics over country and we're over positive over right and wrong and because democrats were actually looking good because republicans looked bad they were like wait we have to take this back you know what if you know if y'all look bad to

Speaker 2 do better

Speaker 2 right Well,

Speaker 1 we had Adam Kinsinger on last week, I believe.

Speaker 2 Adam's not a normal Republican, man. No, I know, but he, but he, no, no, no, but he was talking about

Speaker 1 Kevin McCarthy originally blaming Dominal Trump and then backtracking on it and not even not voting for impeachment.

Speaker 1 Like these guys are just, and he went down to Mar-a-Lago and it's in the documentary that he was in.

Speaker 2 Like, Adam's a good friend of mine. Yes.
He's listening. What's up, Adam? He's a good dude.
We've gone out drinking a couple of times together. Me and Adam are good buddies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 But yeah, it's just, it's just insane. Uh, that I think, what, there were eight, eight Republicans that voted for impeachment in the Senate.

Speaker 2 Uh, yeah,

Speaker 2 something like that. It was like nothing.

Speaker 2 I thought, I thought at that moment, like, change is incremental, right? Because, you know, during the

Speaker 2 Ukraine-Russia thing, the phone call, like the impeachment with that, it was not. Oh, yeah.
It wasn't strong. But then we had this many come around and this many.

Speaker 2 I was like, all right, right, guys, we're kind of making the turn here. But then all of a sudden, then what?

Speaker 2 The ones that stood up to Donald in the House, I think it was 12 or 13 that voted for impeachment.

Speaker 2 And all of those, every single last one that voted is no longer in Congress anymore.

Speaker 2 I have emails from my members of Congress still from 2016.

Speaker 2 And Facebook posts are still out there saying, after the access Hollywood tapes, I can no longer endorse Donald Trump for presidency. This is in 2016.

Speaker 2 And those people are all still in Congress and they're all just doing his work. You know, after that, after January 6th, after the pardons, like

Speaker 2 the spinelessness of Republican Party,

Speaker 2 you know, it's. Listen, I get people.
I get that people need an off-ramp. I get it.
Like, you've committed to something for so long.

Speaker 2 How can you sit there and say, dude, I'm going to make a fool of myself? I supported this guy, but there have been so many obvious off-ramps that this is it.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, okay, tariffs, okay, maybe not. Okay, that's not Epstein files.
Epstein files.

Speaker 2 And, you know, January, everything, like all this, there have been so many off-ramps. I have zero sympathy for anybody now who throws their support behind Donald Trump and anything bad comes of it.

Speaker 2 Like, I can understand it

Speaker 2 in 2016, 2017. Right.
But after that, every single day, every single week, it's something new with this guy that he provides you an off-ramp. Right.
And y'all haven't taken it, so screw y'all.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Can we just cut us half? I think we're done.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, Harry,

Speaker 2 Harry, what does justice look like to you? I mean,

Speaker 2 a lot of the insurrection, all of the insurrectionists who had been prosecuted have been pardoned. Donald Trump was never charged with shit.

Speaker 2 What does justice look like to you? Do you think that justice is even possible? Like, what are you fighting for? So check this out.

Speaker 2 So when I spoke out on January 7th, I wanted accountability and justice. That's my reason for speaking out on January 7th, 2021 until whatever the hell today is in 2025.

Speaker 2 I wanted accountability and I wanted justice. Look, accountability provides two things.

Speaker 2 It provides some type of comfort and closure to victims of anybody who's aggrieved of any situation. And secondly, it provides a deterrent to keep people from doing it again.

Speaker 2 We were on our road to that. We were on our road to that.
And that was railroaded.

Speaker 2 Donald Trump was going to be held accountable and justice going to be served when the House of Representatives impeached him. And then it went to the Senate.

Speaker 2 And then we like, all right, that institution failed us. So there's no justice that route.
All right, the courts. Now, now the courts are involved.
So maybe there's justice here.

Speaker 2 When Jack Smith got appointed, I mean, the whole fucking country was rooting for this guy for Jack Smith. I mean, people had Jack Smith merch, like Mugs, fucking tattoos of Jack Smith.

Speaker 2 Like people were loving this guy. Everybody loved Jack Smith.
I was. I was in the courtroom rooting for him.
Let's go get this bastard.

Speaker 2 Supreme Court comes out and rules: you know, Donald Trump has immunity. He's a king.
He can do whatever the hell he wants. Well, fuck.
All right. There's no justice there.

Speaker 2 All right. No accountability there.
All right.

Speaker 2 November the 5th, we got an opportunity for the people to say, we're done with this dude.

Speaker 2 It was our chance now. It's our chance.
Who more than the people? And we, the people, failed that mission.

Speaker 2 We as Americans failed on November the 5th, not to just elect Kamala Harris, who I was crazy about. That's a whole different story.
But it was just to send a message to Donald Trump.

Speaker 2 We don't like you and our country deserves better.

Speaker 2 We had an opportunity for that. And you know what? We did it.
In fact, we said, you know what, Donald Trump, we like you.

Speaker 2 So maybe we as a country are a country that welcomes rapists, that potential, potential pedophiles,

Speaker 2 that likes felons, that supports people that want to grab women by the puss.

Speaker 2 We are a country that's okay with that. That is what America is.
And if we aren't, and people are saying, no, no, no, we're not. Then why the hell didn't we show that on November the 5th?

Speaker 2 So to go back to the ultimate question, what does justice look? I don't know anymore. I've asked myself the same question.

Speaker 2 I do know that I believe that although our country showed on November 5th, 2024, that we love Donald Trump, I think we deserve better as a country. I think we deserve better.

Speaker 2 I think my kid, my daughter deserves better. I think the future generations, I think you all's kids, you all's families deserve better than what we're experiencing right now.
We can be better.

Speaker 2 We have to be better. And accountability and justice now looks like making it better.
I was in Maine this past weekend. Yes.

Speaker 2 You were in Maine. I gave me a

Speaker 2 great lobster roll with heavy drawn butter on it. My God, my arteries are still hurting.
Yes. But it was so fucking good.
But I was up there, I had the opportunity to share the stage with J.B.

Speaker 2 Pritzker,

Speaker 2 governor of Illinois, Malcolm Kinada, the vice chair of the DNC, and just rallying people because I,

Speaker 2 them, like me, on November 5th, just felt this gut punch and said, dude, WTF, man.

Speaker 2 But, but instead of just sitting at home pouting around, all right, I'm an action-driven guy. We are at this inflection point now.
What do we do?

Speaker 2 So, like, initially, I ran for Congress and I was like, all right, let's fucking run for Congress. All right.
Didn't win. All right.
What now? What now can I do? What now can I do?

Speaker 2 So I'm out there speaking out now, trying to get the word out, elect good Democrats, because clearly the Republicans aren't

Speaker 2 care about nobody else but themselves and Donald Trump. So I know this is a long spiel about what justice and accountability looks like.

Speaker 2 And it looks like fighting, continuing to fight for a better country

Speaker 2 and not letting one man getting off the hook to find

Speaker 2 no accountability and no justice ever again.

Speaker 1 So, so Harry, we're just at about time, but I, well, one, I want to commend you for continuing to fight on this because I know it, you know, the easy thing would have been to have experienced this and basically gone away and been like, I don't know, get a cabin in the woods and not, you know, talk to anybody anymore.

Speaker 1 Move to Portugal. Move to Portugal.

Speaker 1 But, you know, Portugal is nice out here.

Speaker 2 It is nice. That's what I'm saying, man.
Very nice.

Speaker 2 Portugal.

Speaker 1 But how could, so how could people, like, what are you doing now? Like, how could people support you and follow you

Speaker 1 as we're moving forward to hopefully take back the house and set it next year in 2026?

Speaker 2 So I'm glad that you said that, Jim. That's one of the biggest things that we can do.
Like, Donald Trump isn't going to jail. Elon Musk isn't going to jail.

Speaker 2 Donald Trump's going to pardon any and everybody in this administration in the last of his four years. But how can we stop him right now by controlling one chamber in Congress?

Speaker 2 Now, the Senate is a lot tougher, math-wise, and map-wise, and everything, because only a third of the people in the Senate are up.

Speaker 2 But every single person in the House of Representatives is up for reelection this year, excuse me, in November of 2026.

Speaker 2 And we have to, we have to defeat them and give a Democratic controlled House because that way we can stop anything that Donald Trump wants to do through legislation.

Speaker 2 And that's the only way, like, we're going to put a band-aid on this bleeding. Now, we need surgery, but

Speaker 2 give me a band. If we're going to have a choice between a band-aid or nothing, give me a band-aid.
So I am out there.

Speaker 2 I started my PAC called Harry Dunn's Democracy Defenders, and it is hyper-focused on electing candidates that believe in democracy and also don't take money from super huge corporations, grassroots donors and everything like that, five, 10 bucks chip in.

Speaker 2 And it goes to all supporting and getting those candidates elected. But the number one thing people can do, be involved, be educated.
Be educated.

Speaker 2 Like that is the number one thing that you can do because educated people make educated decisions at the ballot box and don't usually do not have buyer's remorse at the ballot box which so many people in maga are having right now but also you can follow me on socials i have a sub stack called standing our ground i have a podcast called poison perspectives and i co-host another podcast called clean up on aisle 45 with my friend allison gill her name is muller she wrote on um oh yeah social medias um i do a podcast where but also i got a book out called standing my Ground,

Speaker 2 Capitol Police Officers Fight for Accountability and Good Trouble after January 6th. So that's my self-promotion right there.

Speaker 2 Harry, I just got to say, I mean, you're a black man in America and you serve for 15 years.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, with the cameras, you know, I'm just, I'm making an assumption here, but

Speaker 2 serve the country for 15 years.

Speaker 2 You know, you get, I'll just say betrayed and betrayed and betrayed, you know, betrayed at the, at the election booth, you know, you get betrayed in the Capitol by your own people, by the president.

Speaker 2 And yet, here you are doing good work, overcoming barriers,

Speaker 2 fighting the right fight.

Speaker 2 Three of us are girl dads on this call.

Speaker 2 You well, four of us now are girl dads on this call with you with you as a guest.

Speaker 2 How do you communicate to your daughter? Like, what do you, what do you, what do you say to your daughter about, you know, the future?

Speaker 2 Like, because all of this is coming through you right and that's like our that's like our one of our main jobs as a as a parent is to help shape our kids worldview keep them optimistic if possible how are how are you doing that oh man my daughter only cares about laboo boos and saying six seven man like you know

Speaker 2 six seven six seven you know no i mean listen i i kids are smart kids are very smart kids are are paying attention to that we don't think that they are they're watching us they're looking at our, over our shoulders on our phones when we're not.

Speaker 2 They're paying attention.

Speaker 2 But what I want to do above all is set a good example for, I believe,

Speaker 2 standing up for what is right is the number one thing to do, no matter what, even when it's hard. So

Speaker 2 we, you know, Donald Trump is a bad man in our house, you know, and people that don't don't

Speaker 2 support people's rights and let people want to live the way that they they want to those are bad people um

Speaker 2 but i just want to show her that daddy wasn't afraid to stand up daddy had a backbone daddy did what he thought was right and not even just to her to any and everybody out there you know listening that this what i january 6th to me hasn't been about you know liberalism and ban guns and legalize abort that wasn't has it that's not because you can have those discussions in the halls of congress under normal times you can talk about whether we spend too much on snap.

Speaker 2 We can have those discussions or tariffs right. You can have all those discussions.
We cannot discuss if January 6th should ever happen again, be allowed, be accepted. We cannot have that discussion.

Speaker 2 That is a 100% no deal breaker. And

Speaker 2 that's morally wrong.

Speaker 2 We cannot dispute. right and wrongs in this country.
Like I said, we can have money discussion about where we're spending our money and blah, blah, blah. We can have those discussions.

Speaker 2 But standing up for what is right, that's why I titled my book, Standing My Ground, because you have to stand up, especially when so many people around you are telling you that you're wrong and you're crazy.

Speaker 2 Believe in yourself, trust yourself, and always believe in yourself.

Speaker 1 Well, Harry, thank you very much for joining us. And also, just thank you for everything that you've done for this country.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 you and all of the officers on January 6th are true American patriots and heroes. And it is awful to hear the vocal minority

Speaker 1 knocking you guys, but I do truly believe that the majority of the country greatly appreciates everything that you and the officers are.

Speaker 2 Sam, can I ask you? I know you say we're about to wrap, but can I ask you a question then? Yeah, I hear that a lot. I hear that a lot.

Speaker 2 That so many people say, so many people, the majority of us, the majority of I, then why the fuck didn't we win the election, man?

Speaker 2 I'm not even like being like sarcastic.

Speaker 2 no

Speaker 2 question wakes me up at 5 a.m every day

Speaker 2 did we not have well fills me with rage it it is if most people support us then how the did they let him back in the white house i feel betrayed by this country this country betrayed me obviously with a lot of other people but you know and i know i asked you a question that could take a whole nother story

Speaker 2 you're gonna make me explain you're gonna make me explain maga uh no but

Speaker 1 no but i'll give you a short answer because i it's very fair and you have every right to feel that way.

Speaker 1 I think that Republicans and conservative media have created an ecosystem that is impenetrable to anybody else.

Speaker 1 And they have basically, over the past four, well, at that point, it would have been four years, lied about what happened on January 6th. And a lot of people are not getting good information.

Speaker 1 Mainstream media is not talking about it either.

Speaker 1 And I think on the left, this is partly why we are doing this show because we need to amplify the fact, like we talked about at the beginning, like the fact that we have to have this conversation almost five years after a violent insurrection or coup attempt, whichever way you want to call it, we have to remind people because no one's telling the story.

Speaker 1 And I think that is a failure both of mainstream media, which is becoming less and less useful or even noticed at this point.

Speaker 1 And when there isn't that, they have been filled with this right-wing ecosystem where billionaires have been paying.

Speaker 1 YouTubers and podcasters, and then you got Fox News, and everybody's been lying about this. And I think this is a signal to the left that we have to get serious about fighting back.

Speaker 1 I do believe that a lot of people, well, a lot of people just didn't vote because I think they thought, oh, well, I don't know who to believe because they don't pay attention like we do.

Speaker 1 I'm not excusing it, but I do think there's that.

Speaker 1 But I think if you took a, you know, that, that clip that the Jan 6 committee released of all of the violent insurrection and you showed the average American, I think they would be horrified by that.

Speaker 1 But I don't think many of them have seen it since that day. And so many people have told them that that didn't happen.

Speaker 1 Now, I don't think that's the total answer, but I think that I think that's a lot of what's going on is that we just don't,

Speaker 1 Democrats also don't fight back hard enough and be outraged enough. And there needed to be more penalties.

Speaker 1 And I do think that the Biden administration needed to move quicker on going after Donald Trump, which is why we are here.

Speaker 1 So I think, yes, I could talk about that all for eight hours and probably bore everyone to death. But like, I think those are the top reasons.

Speaker 2 And I think it's a multi-asset thing. You're missing one.
There's apathy.

Speaker 2 Like, and this, this is, I think what Harry went is going through is the lesson that I went through when I came home from Iraq. I came home from Iraq and realized nobody gave a shit.

Speaker 2 Nobody gave a shit about veterans. Nobody gave a shit about the soldiers.
My friends who were fighting and dying, nobody fucking gave a shit about anything.

Speaker 2 And that, that is, I think, the core character of America that we're really fighting. MAGA is a cancer, but the bigger problem is apathy.
And that's where I think we're making progress. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We're not going to convert MAGA, but I think we will get more people to care.

Speaker 1 Well, and I think also giving, you know, and I think when you build a larger left-wing media ecosystem, you can actually explain all of the amazing things that Kamala Harris wanted to do on affordability.

Speaker 1 Like she had this great thing about buying your first home.

Speaker 1 She had stuff for small businesses, things that would have actually helped Americans, but it got drowned out by the fact that Biden couldn't finish the primary, and then it was a circus, and then Trump just like did anti-trans stuff and talked about prices.

Speaker 2 I mean, we, yeah. So everything that's happening in

Speaker 2 Project 2025 is happening now. Right.
It's a shocker. It's a shocker.

Speaker 2 Someone should have told us.

Speaker 1 Someone should have said something about that. Well, the mainstream media is now like Barry Weiss is now in charge of CBS News.
Like she is a right-wing hack. You know, the Ellisons bought that.

Speaker 1 They're buying other things. And so it is a serious, serious problem.
And I'm glad you pushed me because, you know, it is true and we have to talk about these things.

Speaker 1 And I do think, you know, whether it's 50.1% or not, there are millions and millions of Americans who greatly appreciate what you have done and are outraged at how you all have been treated in the past.

Speaker 1 Because this, to me, was a no-brainer. You guys, you guys saved lives that day.
Like you did.

Speaker 1 Like if there had been a, like, if they had gotten into Pelosi's office, not only would have Pelosi's staff have been hurt, that the protesters would have been hurt as well. And you guys saved lives.

Speaker 1 You did protect democracy. I mean, I don't think that they would have overturned the, like, it would have just been a horrible, horrible mess.
Um, and people would have died.

Speaker 1 And I don't, and the fact this is actually the thing that

Speaker 1 enrages me is the most about MAGA is how they claim to be for veterans, they claim to be for police, and they're not.

Speaker 2 They're not.

Speaker 1 And they treat everybody like shit.

Speaker 1 Like, you, like, you should get a standing ovation wherever you go for the rest of your life for what you did on January. I know you're saying no, but I'm serious.

Speaker 2 Oh, I'll buy you a beer.

Speaker 1 You know, you like a little bourbon.

Speaker 2 I'll buy you all the beers.

Speaker 1 No, but seriously, and I, I, it, it enrages me that, and I do think Chris is right on the apathy thing. And I think a lot of Democrats, there's so much going on.

Speaker 1 It's like, oh, that was five years ago. But like, these guys' lives changed forever.

Speaker 2 Your life changed forever.

Speaker 1 We lost.

Speaker 2 officers.

Speaker 1 You know, the Republicans are supposed to be the back, the blue.

Speaker 2 It's fucking horseshit.

Speaker 1 They don't care at all.

Speaker 2 And I went from having my fucking private Instagram page to having a fucking Wikipedia page now. Like, what the fuck?

Speaker 2 I didn't even accept people on Instagram. Now I got a fucking Wikipedia.
It's fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 It's, yeah, this whole world is a little nutty. But like, look, like, I am so glad that we're in this fight with you.

Speaker 1 And I think that there is a bigger group of people that is finally waking up to this and realizing that this is a five-alarm fire.

Speaker 1 And like, if we don't take back the house next year, like, you you know, I don't know what 2028 looks like. And I'm not, I'm not one to be like, no elections and all this shit, but like, I'm serious.

Speaker 1 Like, and you know, you, what you said is exactly right.

Speaker 1 We need the house and be for oversight so that we can drag them in with subpoenas, but also so that we could just jam them up and they can't pass any more dangerous stuff.

Speaker 2 So, you know, I, I, I certainly like if I was the, if I, if I was in, if I was in Congress, I would pro I would, in the majority, I'd propose articles of impeachment every fucking week for the next yeah i mean congressman green did i think right didn't he there there are some i think yes but as in the minority i know so it's like yeah majority and make them every week for the next two years that's you want to be a lame duck that i if i ran for congress again i would

Speaker 1 i would impeach the son every week you know i know well and it would be warranted and he has done more impeachable things since he's been in office it's very obvious the corruption is just off the charts so yeah well, Harry, again, thank you.

Speaker 1 And I'm glad we had that last bit because I do think that's really important.

Speaker 1 We do believe that you are a hero and a true patriot, and we greatly appreciate all of your service. And we are so glad to be in this fight with you.
So, everybody, go support Harry.

Speaker 1 Go make some donations to Democrats because you're so angry about what happened on January 6th. And let's take the house back in 2028, 2026.

Speaker 1 All right. Thank you, Harry.

Speaker 2 We'll talk soon.

Speaker 2 Appreciate it. Thanks.