Ep.#456 - Captain America: Brave New World

On this episode, we discuss Captain America, Brave New World, Screenplay by Aldous Huxley.

Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Flop House.

I'm Dan McCoy.

Oh, hey, Dan McCoy.

It's me, Stuart Wellington.

Hey, Dan and Stuart.

It's Elliot Kalen.

Who's got the smoothest radio voice?

I don't know.

You're in trouble, Elliot.

I didn't know we were doing this.

Yeah, Dan's going to be.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a race to the bottom for me and Dan.

Bottom being the deepest voice.

Elliot, there's no way you can compete with T.

I don't know about it.

We got a real, yeah, we got a bridge troll just wandered in.

Which one of you, billy goats, is going to be my dinner?

Go ahead, trick him.

Give him some riddles to solve.

This is,

of course, a bridge troll podcast.

No, it's a podcast where we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

How do we define bad?

Well, a movie that was either rejected by audiences or critics or both.

This one.

Or Dan was at the bus stop and somebody was like, this movie stinks.

And you're like, Jay Sherman from The Critic is taking the same bus stop?

Yeah, this animated character from a canceled show from 20 years ago?

Or is it 30 years ago?

Okay, sir.

I will do the show you, the movie you want me to on my podcast if you stop harassing me.

I mean, he would have crushed as a podcast host.

Oh, for sure.

Well, I mean, all that unfettered negativity, sure.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

We try to be nice, even though we're a little bit

negative.

I think so.

I think we don't have to try, Ellie.

It comes naturally.

Yeah, I think we try not to be as mean as we could be.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

And in this

world, that means nice.

In this world, that's nice.

Yeah.

So if you don't actively kick a stranger as you pass by them, you're a nice man in this world.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We watched Captain America, Brave New World,

other than, at this point, Thunderbolts, the most recent Marvel cinematic universe.

There's another one coming out.

Yeah.

First Steps, Fantastic War, First Steps in a couple of weeks.

And probably, guys, I'm going to go out limb.

I think there's going to be another one after that.

Yeah, I think there's going to be at least one more, and it's going to have 400 actors in it.

Yeah.

It's bad when they're like, we've got to figure out how to promote the Marvel movies because the gas is kind of running out on them.

I know.

We'll just list the names of the thousand people who are in it.

It's like, I don't know if that's going to do it anymore, guys.

I don't know if just shoveling in mounds and mounds of actors into the movie, like coal into a train hopper, is going to is going to do it.

But maybe I'm wrong.

So, Captain America, uh, Brandon World, this is the 35th movie in the MCU.

35th.

Some would say that's more than they should have, but okay, but maybe not me.

I don't know.

Uh, but you guys, I want to, I had a question.

You're a, Elliot, you're a Marvel zombie, right?

You're familiar with the Marvel zombies.

I was a Marvel zombie.

When it comes to the comics, I am still a Marvel zombie, but I feel like my, whatever loyalty I had to the MCU as like a fan who's excited about things has, has, the Ember, it's just Embers now.

You know, it's Dan, you're a fan of graphics zombie, right?

Comics-wise, yes, I am a fan of graphics zombie.

But in terms of the MCU, I've stuck with it longer than Elliot.

Maybe because I didn't have

the runway of knowing these characters before, so it didn't tire me out.

Yeah, and Stuart, you're more of a Verotica zombie, right?

Like whatever Glenn is.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm like, I like to walk that thin line between horror and pleasure.

So, Dan, here's the question I have for you: exactly that.

So, I feel like, is it because I feel there's two kinds of Marvel zombie fans when it comes to the movies: the ones who are diehard, I love these characters, and I've got to support them no matter what.

And the ones like me who are like, Well, I kind of already have an outlet for this, which is comic books.

Yeah, Dan, since you're not as tied to the comics, how are you feeling about the Marvel cinematic universe at this stage?

Uh, it's definitely uh

my enthusiasm, which which was unflagging.

Uh, it was an enthusiasm for a long time.

Yeah, even during some of the, you know, like post

Infinity War

downtime,

like, I still was like, oh, yeah, but you know, these are still fun enough.

This one

was the one that really, between this and Quantum Mania, I think these are, they were the two ones that really tried my patience the most.

Yeah.

I mean, wait, are we going with our like least favorite Marvel movie so far?

Because you didn't mention my least favorite.

What's that?

Love and Thunder, thor loving thunder

so much I still haven't watched I had there was a I think I've talked about this on the podcast in the past that a couple years ago I was in a very deep depression and I was like what movie am I gonna watch while I do the dishes Thor Love and Thunder is on Disney Plus I guess I have to watch that and then I was like no wait I'm not gonna watch it I'm gonna watch this foreign movie that I've never heard of that I DVR'd just on a whim.

And that movie was amazing.

And I was like, and I'm like, I'm not looking back.

I'm never watching Love and Thunder.

I don't need it.

And Stuart, you're disliking that.

That foreign movie was what, like, Mr.

Bean's Thanksgiving or something?

Mr.

Bean's Thanksgiving.

What was your.

It was called El Sur.

It was a Spanish movie called El Sur.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We talked about that.

What was your, in a nutshell, your 11 Thunder issues?

Let's hash it out briefly.

Was it the Love and Thunder?

Yeah, which one was it?

I would say it.

Thor fans, write in it.

Let us know if you want us to cover Thor Love and Thunder.

But, Stuart, tell us.

Yeah.

Give us a preview.

I mean, I just, I feel like it, you know, there's, there's some bright spots.

I like Christian Bale you know uh but I feel like they it took the kind of like goofiness of some of the uh previous intro specifically the last taika waitini one and uh and it just kind of like dialed the goofiness up the I don't think the jokes worked as well it felt kind of lazy and thrown together very quickly which is

and or edited to pieces, which is part of the problem with this one.

And

it felt like a filmmaker who was stretched a little too thin, which is, I think, based on his body of work, true.

Just because Taiko Atiti had signed on to roughly seven dozen projects at that time.

And remember there was the interview that made Marvel fans mad where Taiko Atiti was like, oh yeah, I did the Thor movies for money.

I needed money at the time.

And people were like, what?

It wasn't for love of Thor?

I think

there's a...

One of the things that I still find hilarious that they still have to do is when the people making these movies have to pretend that they've always been fans of these characters and they think they're super cool.

Or like, oh, yeah, I read the comic books they're based on, and there's such, there's such amazing depth in the character of Sidewinder, you know.

But it's anyway, we'll get into that.

Dan, so Captain America, Brave New World, had you seen Falcon and Winter Soldier, the team?

I had seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

I have not seen it.

That's the show that should have been an email, right?

You know what?

I did not hate it as much as a lot of people did.

It's not my least favorite of those things either.

But what's your least favorite of those things?

Oh, God.

There's a a lot of us like vague booking here.

Yeah, yeah.

What is it?

I can't, you know, the one, look, I know that it was like more creative and, and thus I should be fond of it for its ambition, but I just couldn't make it through Moon Knight because I was like,

what the hell is happening here?

Like at a certain point.

Yeah, that's fair.

Yeah.

But

Because I didn't see Falcon Winter Soldier.

And so when Bucky Barnes, who I associate more with the fact that he, until recently, was a brainwashed Soviet assassin, when he showed up as a congressional candidate and another character was like, oh, future Congressman Buckruth J.

Barnes or whatever, I was like, what the fuck?

What is going on in the Marvel Universe?

The president's a bulk and Bucky's running for Congress.

Like, what is this?

What is kind of amazing about

Bucky as elder statesman of the Marvel Universe currently?

Like, I don't know.

It's

a lot of fun.

It works well in Thunderbolts.

It works very well in Thunderbolts.

I mean, it's the kind of thing that should happen kind of naturally and organically because Captain America is an elder statesman character.

Bucky is takes a pass on some of that.

He's been in a lot of the movies for a while.

I haven't seen Thunderbolts yet, so I don't know.

But the idea of him as a, it was more the idea of him as a congressman.

I know that really threw him.

That's the best thing.

As people have pointed out online, it should be like, wait, didn't you kill JFK?

Well, yeah, sure.

But I also helped unsnap a bunch of people.

So, you know.

He's got a metal arm, dude.

He does have a metal arm.

That was on his campaign posters.

I've got got a metal arm, dude.

And he's pointing to you.

Speaking of metal arms, I want you to look at my metal arm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And

it's drawn all super cool with a lot of lines on it, like Rob Layfield would draw it.

Oh, I imagine it's like he got he got Boris Vallejo to do it, and it's all shiny and

ripped.

Yeah.

And a couple of naked

women are.

He's going for the Manosphere vote.

Yeah, of course.

Okay, so Captain America, Brave New World.

Now, for some reason, I watched this on Disney Plus and I didn't see the opening, like traditional opening Marvel logo.

Did I just miss it?

Was it looking amazing?

To be honest, I hit that 10-second skip button through the production logos.

So I don't.

So I didn't recognize that.

But I figured Stewart Never Stays for the end credit scene.

I don't have to look at the production logos.

That's all right.

That's all right.

That's your cool new thing.

Okay.

So movie opens.

Thaddeus Ross.

Thaddeus, what?

Thunderbolt Ross?

Thunderbolt Ross

is now President of the United States of America.

He's looking a little different.

He was looking a little bit different.

The snap changed him.

Well, okay, so here, let's just pull the curtain back.

This is a different actor playing

passed away.

Yeah, William Hurt passed away and Harrison Ford took the role.

And I got to say, I like that more than if they had an AI CGI William Hurt, you know, walking around.

I mean, I honestly like...

This is a weird thing to say because I love Harrison Ford and I am usually very excited to see him and things, but I did miss William Hurt in this role.

I feel like William Hurt brings a different, it's a slightly different energy than I agree.

Well, I think Harrison Ford, you know, he's, I think he's by far the MVP of this movie, but I feel like he

does Tim Blake Nelson, dude.

I wish they'd just given Tim Blake Nelson more to do.

He just walks around and stares at the moment.

That's the problem with him.

So, and uh, but William Hurt brings a certain, yeah, a certain slight over-the-topness to his Thunderbolt Ross.

And I wish Harrison Ford doesn't really do that.

You know, Harrison Ford doesn't do that kind of like, um,

this, it's just a little bigger than it needs to be, you know.

But anyway, yeah, so he's the president of the United States now, the guy who, again,

I mean, never mind.

They elected him president even after he like destroyed part of an American city, but whatever.

It's a yeah, in today's world, that's yeah,

we should not be allowed to say anything predicting, like saying what can and can't get you elected because we've said things on the podcast before and we've been proven.

That's true.

That's very true.

Well, I think one of the weird things about this movie is that, and people at the time when it came out, they commented on this, that like it feels like a

movie from a slightly earlier political age where the message of we may disagree, but maybe we can't, but we have to figure out how to get along still seemed kind of like a valid way to live as opposed to now where it's like,

I don't really need to agree to disagree with the guy who's sending masked gunmen to pull citizens off the street and airlift them to foreign jails.

Like there's no, and the idea that

the,

and this, people said this in the, in their views, that like, oh, this, it's actually great if the president just broke some buildings in Washington, D.C.

and didn't do more.

Like, he's, he's a far less destructive president than the one who is a warmonger and a monster, but

he's not that bad.

Yeah,

we've had warmonder gone.

Warmonder gone.

I mean, warm undergone sounds like a great, a great fantasy character.

Yeah.

Just take the Hulk pills away from him and he'll be fine.

No, dude,

he has a vague heart condition that can only be sort of cured through Hulk pills.

Okay.

Okay, so he is the president.

Five months later.

Five months later, Captain America and his new Falcon sidekick, Joaquin Torres, right?

Yeah.

They are sent on a mission to Oaxaca to stop.

the sale of some classified material that was stolen by the the organization called serpent and their lead bad guy sidewinder are these comic book guys these are So here's the here's this was a this was a reshoot thing.

So Serpent is a nod to the Serpent Society, which is a group of Captain America villains that are all snake-themed.

And they all have snake costumes.

They all have different snake powers.

And during, I think it's...

Does it Cobra Sue about this?

They predate Cobra, I believe, Daniel.

But the idea behind them, I'm trying to...

I don't wait the health insurance.

Oh, no, they don't predate that.

Yeah.

I think they, I can't remember if they started during Mark Grunwald's run or not, but Mark Runwald, who wrote Captain America for 10 years, and his run is really fun.

It's got Cap Wolf in it when Captain America comes a werewolf.

It's like all the John Walker U.S.

agent stuff that Falcon of the Winter Soldier was about.

He's like, there's all these snake-based villains.

Let's get them into one group and they'll treat it like it's a labor union or a business syndicate for villains.

Like they each get a cut.

They get health insurance through it.

And Sidewinder is the guy who runs it, but they all wear their snake costumes all the time.

It's great.

And one of the things that's disappointing to me about this movie is that it feels like it, it feels a lot like it is the 90s direct-to-video sequel to a big budget action movie and part of that is that the characters are rarely in costume or doing costume things the villains instead of being colorful costumed characters are instead just kind of like randos in in body armor with guns and uh they originally i guess had the characters diamondback and another one these serpent society characters and then cut them entirely out of the movie that like they literally shot those scenes and then cut them out and i think they were trying to de maybe de-silify the serpent society but it's like why not why are we doing this why are we why are we trying to make these movies?

Why would you have loved to have been in a cool snake costume?

I think so.

And he would have done a great job with it.

And he could have looked like the snake man in that anti-drug ad from when I was a kid that was so scary, where the drug dealer turns into like a weird snake man at the end.

But it's one of those things where I think when the Marvel universe was at its best, it was like, let's take the things that happen in the comics and that they do in the comics that in earlier movies would have deemed too silly.

Let's just have them do them.

Like, let's just have them do it.

And here it feels like they're back in the old ways of running away from that.

You know, to the Serpent Society, have them dress up as snakes.

Give them snake powers.

Why not?

You know, where else can you get that?

Nowhere.

Well, I mean, one of the problems with this movie in particular is it has such a like dour and serious tone.

And I think they're trying to recapture the Winter Soldier tone of like, oh, this is really a political serious movie.

But part of what makes that fun is that you, in the middle of this serious thing, you have Captain America and Bucky running around and doing stuff.

Yeah, well, and then there's like some fun, like, they're not really like mismatched per se, but there's like some buddy comedy stuff with Captain America and Black Widow.

Like, I wonder whether.

And the introduction of Sam Wilson.

Some of it is like

a response to people getting mad about, like, oh, you know, like these movies got so quippy or whatever, but like,

it's still quippy, though.

Like,

character comedy is like the good stuff.

I, I, I, you don't have to run away from, like, I I don't know.

Let's also like the characters, part of the issue I had with this movie, this is a larger thing, and I know we haven't talked too much about it.

Sam Wilson and Joaquin Torres, they don't really have much personality.

Sam Wilson takes everything seriously and he feels a lot of pressure.

Joaquin Torres is like, he's the young guy who wants to, who like wants to be a hero and he's a little hotter, and Quippy, he's a hot dogger.

But other than that, they don't have much.

And it's not till the very end of the movie that.

Anthony Mackey gets to give that speech about when I'm wearing this, I feel the pressure of everybody else who worked so hard to get me to this place.

I can't let them down.

And I was like, that's the subtext running through it.

And I'm like, have him say that at the very beginning of the movie and then give him a little bit more personality.

But instead,

they play it so like serious, boilerplate kind of action movie guy that it, I feel like I was the whole time, I was like, I don't get, I don't know what Falcon's personality is.

Like, I don't know who he is as a character.

I've liked Mackie a lot in this part, but now that he's in the main

role rather than a supporting role, they haven't developed like the next level of character.

My favorite moments for him are when he, like, he,

where they give him a chance to, like, reveal that, like, yeah, he's just a regular dude, where he's like, man, I wish I fucking took that stupid super serve.

It was also, this is the most kind of stuff's funnier.

Does this movie set the limit, set the record for the number of times they say shit in a Marvel movie?

It felt like every other line was like, oh, shit.

Oh, shit.

Oh, that's bumble shit.

And it was like, I was like, listeners, right in.

Right in.

Somebody tally it up.

Send it.

I think you were watching the shit cut, Ellie.

Oh, that was sad.

you know i did i did look up the faculty did you guys see the scene where they were just rolling around and or was that name was that not the one that was i didn't see you know what now i didn't watch it on disney plus i watched it on on shitfetish.com instead of the problem

wow that's a very specific name yeah i did not try to obfuscate it at all i just i i googled captain america brave new world streaming and that's the first link that came up and it looks really cheap costumes to look on model poop world

you know what you did say did you mean captain america brave poop world?

And I said, I guess that's what it's called.

Yeah.

You got to make sure that the links you click aren't promoted, LA, because Google's just doing well.

Yeah, Google AI said, I think you'll want this.

And the whole time I was watching, I was like, I don't want this.

This isn't what I like.

But I guess I'll watch all four hours of it.

You guys, it was four hours long, right?

It was four hours of just poop play.

Yeah, okay.

So Captain America arrives.

So we're still starting here.

We don't even have to talk about how weird it is that our American heroes are operating on Mexican soil to deal with this issue.

And that,

so he arrives, he like beats up a bunch of baddies, he fights like a bigger baddie and beats him up.

Meanwhile, this bigger baddie, this was not fun and it was unimpressive and boring, right?

Yeah.

Like it was this, this is when you need a guy with a superpower, like a snake-based superpower for Falcon to go up against instead of a guy who's just slightly larger than Falcon.

Like he wasn't even that big a guy.

But

other than like being excited to be fighting him.

And by Falcon, you mean Captain America.

Oh, sorry, Captain America.

I apologize.

I will say

I continue to be disappointed at how much the like, I know this is the way of the future, everything, but like the way his wings and his mask like zip on and off digitally, like it just looks, it looks kind of lame.

What I read was that apparently Anthony Mackey had a lot of trouble with the mask he had to wear in Falcon the Winter Soldier.

And he was like, you got to give me, you can't put me in that again, which I understand.

I get it.

Yeah, that makes sense.

But I agree that like the digital wings and everything, they just kind of look, meh, you know, I don't know.

It's hard, it's hard to be excited about it.

Exactly.

I will say, I was less excited about this fight than I was about Carrie Elways fighting Andre the Giant in the Princess Bride, which is a great fight scene where a guy is up against a much bigger guy.

So, like, they needed to bring some of that into this scene, I feel like.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So, uh, you should have had him fight, what, like a human legend like Andre the Giant.

Yeah, if you can find another one, sure, yeah.

Yeah.

He's a human legend as if he was going to fight like a legendary dog.

A legendary crosser.

Cervis is going to be there.

And he's going to fight.

Cerberus.

Cerberus.

Not Cerberus.

Yeah.

He's an Aardvark.

He's a legendary.

He can fight.

He's a great fighter.

He's got some controversial opinions about women.

I know, Dan, you agree with him.

Okay.

So they succeed, but Sidewinder escapes.

They manage to get this material.

They head back.

He introduces Joaquin to his friend Isaiah Bradley, who is the original Captain America, who was a soldier in what, World War I or two?

No, World War II.

So it's World War II also, but this is a character where the idea, this is from a

comic called The Truth, I think it was, that Marvel did years ago, where the idea was...

much like the Tuskegee experiments and things like that, that before they used the super serum supercell digital on a white person, they would have tested it out on black soldiers.

And so there's this black Captain America, Isaiah Bradley, who received it first and because he was a black man,

was then mistreated by the government and things like that.

So I like that they're bringing this character in.

I guess maybe he was an older soldier, the TV show, also.

I don't know.

Yeah, he was.

And

he brings some interesting, like, he adds a perspective and a genuine distrust for the U.S.

government.

Yeah, the character and the actor are great.

In the movie, it's another place where the film feels like terribly wishy-washy in this like moment where it's like at the end where Captain America is like arguing why he still

puts on the suit and you know represents America.

I'm like, I don't know, man.

Like it seems like there's been a lot of mistreatment here that would be hard to forgive.

I don't know.

So they are invited to the White House, Captain America and Falcon, for their work in Oaxaca.

And he insists

that he insists that Isaiah come along with him.

And despite his initial reservations, Isaiah agrees to go along.

They get all dressed up.

They take a limo.

They talk about riding in a limo and being dressed dressed up.

They arrive at the White House for this, like.

They talk about it for a while.

Stewart makes it seem like that's just

Stewart's just bringing it up as a joke.

They spend a lot of time in that limo talking about, look at your suit, man.

Oh, hey, we're in a limo right now.

Yeah.

It's, I mean, it's a nice jacket.

So they arrive at the White House.

They're going to be able to the White House.

If you're going to style, you do.

I guess true.

That's a good point.

So they arrive at the White House.

There's initially some conversation that I thought was just, you know, like tossed off jokes where Isaiah is having trouble working his phone but it turns out that's a plot point uh captain meets with uh president ross who suggests that they put aside their past differences and captain america restart the avengers um and it's this like hey let's let's build bridges and move forward then the president gives an address where he's talking all about the uh giant uh dead eternal that appeared celestial sorry that appeared at the end of eternal it's my mistake you're like i thought that was never going to be mentioned again, but

I'm kind of excited to see that.

Because it's their way to get an even more important thing into the Marvel U Cinematic Universe.

And what is that miracle mineral?

Adam Mantium.

Adam Mantium.

And you know,

all the comic fans ejaculated when they heard that word because they know Wolverine is going to show up at some point.

Not in this movie, but

not in this movie.

Sometime.

He is too busy being in the highest-grossing R-rated comedy of all time

shortly after this.

Yeah.

Was that the Hangover 5?

Exactly.

No, it's the Music Man on Broadway, the film version of it.

Oh, wow.

That's R-rated.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Now I'm interested in seeing it.

Yeah, yeah.

They updated it for Modern Times.

So it's much grittier.

There's a lot more nudity, a lot more nudity.

Most shits you'll ever hear on Broadway.

You know what?

I might have been watching the Poozic Man, which is on the same website we were talking about earlier.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we got trouble.

That starts with a T and that

rhymes with P, and that stands for poop.

And then they're just, it's just shit play from that point on.

I'm going to put a child protection on your laptop, Elliot.

I think that's a good idea.

I'm not worried about you.

So we,

so in the middle of this, we also learned that the

thing that was recovered in Oaxaca that was up for sale, the classified material, was actually some of that adamantium that I believe belonged to the Japanese and was stolen by serpent.

So this movie is, it's trying to be mature and intelligent in making itself about international tension between America and Japan over the ownership of Adamantium and this treaty that will share Adamantium with all the worlds that the president has.

Because this

thing appeared in the Indian Ocean and all the nations that are nearby are trying to race so that they can exploit this,

what, giant alien corporation?

This is vibranium.

Yeah, and there's two things I want to bring up about this.

One is the movie, now the rest of the movie, Ross just keeps going, my treaty.

Oh, but my treaty.

We've got to sign this treaty.

And it's ridiculous.

How often he's always talking about this treaty.

And the other thing is, too,

clearly, this should be about tension between America and China.

But they do not want to insult the Chinese.

They want to make sure that this movie can play in Chinese theaters.

And so they make it Japan instead.

And the idea that America and Japan are racing for this thing in the Indian Ocean and China is just kicking back being like, I don't need it.

I don't need to extend my control over the oceans around my country.

No, you guys handle it is bonkers.

It's ridiculous.

You know,

it's similar to that Red Dawn remake we did years ago, where I think it was supposed to be China invading the United States.

And then they were like, oh, but we might want this to play in China because there's a lot of money there.

So they made it North Korea instead.

And the idea that North Korea could land an invasion army in the United States and start taking over the country is ludicrous.

So the, so it just was very, um, it felt very cynical and also kind of like uh does have hoes in different area codes.

North Korea.

Who does?

Ludicrous.

A ludicrous.

That's your,

But this was, it was one where it felt like, I think, I assume it was in order to not annoy the Chinese government so that they could keep sending movies to China.

But it meant that this movie was attempting to do like kind of a smart thing about international politics, but in a very kind of dumb, in a very dumb way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's it's dumb and it is is weird.

Okay.

So in the middle on the poster.

Yeah.

So in the middle of this

dot dot dot weird Stuart Wellington Plophouse.

And he ellipsed out and?

All right.

Yeah.

So they

they in the middle of the summit, we hear some strains of a strange song playing, and all of a sudden, Isaiah Bradley and two other men whip out guns and just start blasting.

The president luckily survives.

And Isaiah Bradley goes on the lamb.

He runs across, you know, the various parts of Washington, D.C.

before Sam convinces him to give up.

They're surrounded and Isaiah is taken into custody.

He is obviously confused as to what happened.

It's almost like he was brainwashed.

Almost.

So this movie is Mr.

Blue as performed by the Fleetwoods.

There's another blue-based song they could have used, guys.

Oh, yeah.

How's that go?

Is there a

dramatic reading of it?

It goes, I'm blue.

Dabou D, Dabudai.

Dabou Dabudai.

Dabou D.

Dabudai.

And I was very disappointed that they did it.

Is that the first chorus, or is that the chorus or the church?

That's pretty much so.

That's the chorus.

That's most of the song.

I mean, it does open with a spoken word intro about how this is a song about a blue guy who lives in a blue world and everything is blue.

I also want to say, like, obviously, Thunderbolt Ross is not the most level-headed and reasonable of men.

No.

But I do find it kind of odd that in this world where we know about the Winter Soldier, again, bringing him up again, and how he was triggered to do assassinations, that there is so much like confusion around the idea that like Isaiah might have had the same thing happen to him.

And so in a world of magic powers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, there's a, I would point you, Dan, there's a great issue of Astro City that's about a lawyer who gets his client a gangster off of charges because he's arguing, how do we know it wasn't a duplicate from another dimension?

How do we know it wasn't a clone in this superhero world we live in?

And it's a good, yeah, you should use that argument, Dan, when you're, when you're, when you're defending somebody's,

not?

Yeah, why did he not wear his magical amulet that grants him superhuman strength and powers?

That's my favorite line from the recent Daredevil show.

He's defending the vigilante.

Why doesn't he just eat Ross, the largest friend?

So it's around here.

So in the confusion, so obviously Isaiah Bradley at this point is sentenced to potentially, he might be on trial with the death penalty.

There's a death penalty for attempted assassination.

They keep keep saying he they are going for the death penalty can you get the death penalty for an attempted murder if you fail

i mean in today's america probably i don't know what it just kept sticking out to me i'm like i don't know if i ever heard the death penalty for someone who failed to kill somebody else like

this is it's around now where we're introduced to ross's head of security ruth bat saroff yeah a very tiny woman who was apparently trained in the red rooms with the black widows.

And so she is a character that,

from my understanding, was edited and cut down quite a bit.

Yes.

In the comic books, she is a character named Sabra, who is kind of the Israeli national superhero.

And when they first started putting this movie together,

I'm not sure why they chose her as a character to be in it, but there was a firestorm on both sides of the pro- and anti-Israeli, pro- and anti-Gaza thing.

And they stepped into a controversy of snow white proportions around it.

And I think their reaction to that was to, instead of making her an Israeli superhero, making her an Israeli-born employee of the United States government who just happens, who is a former black widow, as opposed to someone with strong ties to Israel.

But I always love the name Bat Seraph because it sounds like it's like,

if Batman was an angel.

I mean, the thing, I mean, like, as someone, you know, basically Azrael, right?

Yeah, I guess that is Azrael, yeah.

Outside of

the

outside of that world, I I was not like, my initial association with bat is not like, oh, yeah, this is like a Jewish name.

It is the bat.

It was only on Rewatch.

I'm like, oh, of course, yes, of course.

Right, right.

There's no bat element for this.

You can't wait for her to turn into a bat.

You're like, a falcon and a bat.

It makes perfect sense.

They're both flyers.

Yeah.

I mean, if she turned, like, morphed into a bat character, that would have been great.

Amazing.

It would have been fantastic.

Yeah.

Okay.

I mean, you know, she's a, what are you going to say, Dan?

Well, just know, I understand

why in this world

things were changed about this character.

Just as a matter of like the actress performing it, like, this is a fun character, I think, to me in this movie that doesn't have a lot of fun stuff.

She's already, this is Shira Haas is the actress who's who you may remember her from the show, Steitzel, which was my in-laws' favorite show for a while.

Can you tell us a little bit about Steizel?

It's an Israeli show about Jews.

it's like it's just about it's about like orthodox jews and my my in-laws really loved it they're watching all the time oh and she was that's right and she was in unorthodox

yeah yeah that's what i remember yeah yeah that's what you would know from it's from unorthodox another show about orthodox jews um but uh the uh what was i gonna say but they they kind of solve the problem by i she is a fun performer in this, but they also don't give her that much to do.

Like there's, there's not a lot of personality in this character aside from like, she seems like she's going to be tough as nails, but then she's got a sense of humor, you know?

Yeah, she's initially introduced as potentially a foil, but then she becomes an ally.

Okay, so

foil is an alloy,

depending on what it's made out of.

Sam goes to visit Isaiah in jail, and he continues his investigations.

While he's driving around, he gets ambushed by Sidewinder.

His car gets blown up, and then he beats up Sidewinder and wins because, I mean, it's Giancarlo Esposito, great actor.

I don't quite buy him as like as physically tough as Captain America.

I mean, at least in Electric State, they gave him a robot body to be working through.

But the idea that, yeah, even if Captain America doesn't have the Super Soldier serum, he's still got to be at least 15 years younger than Gian Carlo Esposito.

Like, right?

It feels weird to have an older gentleman as

the big physical one.

Now, if they put him in a snake suit.

Maybe, maybe, snake suit.

Of course, if he has snake powers, then yeah, of course.

Then it's a totally different story.

Now, what are snake powers?

Let's dig into this.

So, it's squeezing, mesmerizing, so yo, I mean, there's a lot of different kinds of snake powers.

So, uh, I think side this sidewinder, he could teleport.

I think.

Let's see.

That's a snake power.

Yeah.

I mean, that's a

terrified now.

It's going to be snakes.

Oh, yeah.

Snakes could just show up anywhere, Dan.

That's why you got to always check your shoes when you wake up in the morning.

But what other snake powers?

I mean, like, not all of them had snake snake powers because, like, Diamondback's powers were like.

There's a stricter, right?

Yeah, there's, there's, yeah, there's, um, which one is it?

Is it Is it King Cobra?

I think there's Black Mamba, King Cobra, Asp.

They all have different.

They can bite people.

They can squeeze people.

He can bite people, Elliot.

I forget if it's King.

He's squeezed people right now.

I forget if it's King Cobra, the one who has a snake body.

One of them has like a bionic from the waist down.

He's just a huge snake, you know?

Oh, yeah.

But like Diamondback, who became Captain America's girlfriend for a little bit, she just kind of throws diamonds and jumps around.

She's a real Black Widow Electra type character.

You know, we talk about all these body modifications, right?

Where like people are buying

calf extensions and things.

How come nobody's just turned their lower half of their body into a snake body?

Calf extensions.

There was a guy for longer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You got to be more like a trap.

There was a guy who was.

You're trying to see materialists yet, Dan.

There was a guy extensions?

Yeah.

For longer calves.

Well, to be taller.

Heightening surgery, yeah.

You didn't hear about this?

Yeah, yeah.

You can get like up to six inches.

So Anthony Magic

is 11 years younger than Giancarlo Esposito.

So that's not super crazy.

Yeah, I guess it's within the realm of possibility that they'd be evenly matched in a fight.

But even without the Super Soldier serum, I still believe that Anthony Mackey

is going to be, that Gian Carlo Espinoza is not the athletic match.

I mean, I think the main thing is that Giancarlo Esposito had some weapons, some guns.

He did have some weapons.

And they're like, here's my secret weapon, a big gun weapon.

Now, if his gun shot snakes.

Yeah, that well there.

And again, that would be so much better.

Or if he threw a grenade and a bunch of snakes jumped out at you, I mean, you know who knew?

You know who knew the the power of throwing a snake at somebody?

Moses.

It worked then, it would work now.

Throw a snake at somebody.

Throw some peanut butter at them and had the snakes burst out of that peanut bread.

Real snakes, though.

That thing, real snakes burst out of it.

Yeah.

Throw it.

It's like, here's a snack, Captain America.

Captain America's like, actually, I'm pretty high.

I could use some energy in the middle of this battle.

I appreciate it.

Ah, snakes.

Okay, so

they trace the last number that Sidewinder called called to a

US, like a CIA black site called Camp Echo One that's kind of in the middle of nowhere.

Cap immediately recognized this as a if you call West Virginia the middle of nowhere, which I would be, if I was a McElroy, I'd be pretty insulted still.

I mean, they try to play it up like the reason why he knows it is what it is because it's not near anything else.

So he and Joaquin head down to check this place out.

Meanwhile, Ross is

Ross is what, flying around.

He's talking to his

friends.

He's going back and forth between here and Japan, trying to get the Japanese prime minister to sign on to this treaty.

Because if Japan doesn't sign on, then India and France will not sign on, I think it is.

And he needs this treaty.

We've got this treaty.

We owe it to the world for this treaty.

The treaty that will say that they will all share the adamantium.

No country will

have a monopoly on adamantium.

Yeah.

He also places a call to the prison that we'll later learn is Camp Akai.

And he's talking to the warden about whether or not their prisoner is still contained.

And the warden's like, yes, of course.

I'm looking at him right now.

And it's revealed that he is just looking at a wall, that something fishy is going on.

Okay, so Captain America and Falcon investigate Campbec One.

They meet the real bad guy.

Really easy.

They break in very easily.

They notice that

they find a whole bunch of evidence.

It's like an evidence dungeon down there with a bunch of pictures on the wall.

And one of the bits of evidence ties what's going on to President Ross.

And there's some weird pills, the same pills that Ross has been chomping down like Tic Tacs.

So this bad guy is very sloppily organized because he's literally just left the president's medical files just out on the desk, and he doesn't need them at that moment.

This is a plan that's been going on for years.

He should have filed them at this point.

Especially because we learn that this is Samuel Stearns, the leader.

Is that the

comics?

He's the leader.

They never call him that in the movies, but they should.

Recall him from everyone's favorite MCU movie,

The Incredible Hulk.

Fallout of Buster Spruggs.

Everyone, you know, the character everyone remembers, the actor everyone remembers as the Hulk, Edward Norton,

Timblak Noss.

And

the actor everybody remembers from General Ross, William Hurt, doesn't even become the leader until the end of that movie.

The Abomination is the main villain in that.

So they're paying off something that was that was put in the first

years ago.

Yeah.

So that's that's just good.

That's just good filmmaking.

That's the I mean they planted that seed.

So yeah, so he's he's the they don't call him the leader, but his name, he is the leader.

And what's his powers in the comic book?

He's just super intelligent.

He has a gamma-infused brain.

Yeah, he's got a big old, big old dome.

And that's why he's the Hulks villain.

The Hulk gamma made him strong, but savage and dumb.

It made the leader incredibly brilliant and also scheming and cunning.

And so he's just super smart.

And in the comics, his head like expands like a kind of like a, in the old comics, his forehead just gets super tall.

He's just got a very tall head with a huge beach for it.

Around the time in the 80s when Todd McFarlane was drawing him in the Hulk, his head started expanding in all directions like a Jiffy Pop dome.

And he looks great.

He's got a mustache.

I love it.

And here, originally, I guess his look was more in keeping with the comics, but then I think people didn't like it.

So they changed it to, now he's got, it looks like his head is green and puffy.

He's got like a lumpy head, yeah.

Yeah, and his eyes are all weird and he doesn't have a mustache.

I want to address something you said just a moment ago about like him having these files just laid out.

Now,

I guess the idea for a lot of this is, you know, the leader, again, his power, extreme smartness.

He can predict like what's going to happen.

So here's, so they stole from a different Marvel character, the mad thinker.

The mad thinker is the one who's always like, there's a 95% chance that you will come through that door right now.

And then a trap is operated or whatever.

And so here they have him talking about probabilities and calculations.

That's a mad thinker thing.

That's okay.

They can give it to the leader.

That's fine.

But

I'm not mad about it, but the mad thinker is.

It's in his name.

I assume that part of the idea is that, like, these are all breadcrumbs.

This is

setting them up.

Yeah.

Plan,

which is a trope.

that I really have grown to dislike because it's just it.

If like 90% of your movie is like the bad guy being like, I knew exactly what you were going to do and like, I've led you here this whole time.

It makes it you've laid into my hands every step of the way, Captain Merrick.

Time to open the box, Brad Pitt.

It makes it feel like everything else has been worthless.

And also it makes it feel like, well, then how do you vanquish them at the end?

Like he's been right about everything, but somehow miraculously, you're right at the end.

But also like in seven, something like that works better because it's a shocking reveal.

You know, like normally I'm not in favor of shocking reveals.

I believe in like the hitchcock like, well, we want to know the things up front so we can like have information that the characters maybe don't that creates some suspense.

But I think if it's going to be like a mastermind like telling a hero pretty early on in the movie, like, oh, I'm masterminding everything.

then it takes the winds out of the movie's sales versus there is at least a little juice in like at the end of the movie the shock of being like, oh my god, I've played into your hands all along.

Like, I thought I was doing the right thing, but it was wrong, you know.

Well, I'd say there's two things I'll say to that, Dan.

One, which I agree with you.

Number one is Seven is just such a different type of movie that exists in a different world.

Like, there's no justice and there's no heroes in Seven, which I think is how it's a super bleak movie and how you can get away with it.

And it's not like we have to have to worry about the continuing adventures of Brad and Morgan, you know, in other movies.

So, the uh, but I think also

like a sequel sequel.

It's called Eight.

Oh, hell yeah.

He invented a new deadly sin, and now the killer is back from the dead.

We thought we figured out all the ways to sin.

Turned out that was there's another one, Doom Scroll.

That's really cool.

Cybercrime.

D Snyder's Seven Lands.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I was doing cybercrime.

The fucking beekeeper would show up and beat those shit out of John Doe.

Sure.

But I think also.

L.A., have you seen the beekeeper?

I have not seen the beekeeper yet.

Dude, LA, you got to watch the Keep those please.

I guess, you know what?

I'm in the middle of Sinners.

I guess I'll put a pause on that and I'll go watch the Beekeeper instead.

Well, you just got to time it right to a scene where they're looking at a television and then you imagine that the characters are watching Beekeeper.

Yeah, there's a lot of television scenes in Sinners.

Yeah.

So, Dan, but I think you're right that like if you're going to pull off, oh, you were, you were.

in my clutches the whole time and now you've got to figure out a way to escape it.

The stakes are so much higher for the filmmakers in that, in making it like a surprise and also devastating and then finding a way for the hero to do something the villain didn't expect.

But here they just don't do it.

They just kind of, the villain just kind of starts getting bored at a certain point.

But also he says, don't be boring to someone at one point, which is my favorite line in the movie.

But also,

it's also one of those times where he was like, I knew you'd invite Isaiah Bradley to the White House.

So I brainwashed him.

And it's like, dude, if you didn't brainwash Isaiah Bradley, Captain America probably wouldn't have investigated this.

You probably would have gotten away with it.

But he was like, but I wanted you to investigate to increase the pressure on the president.

It would have been easier if you just didn't.

It reminds me of in Speed 2 when we did our Speed 2 show, where it was like, where Willem Dafoe is getting away with the jewels or whatever, and then takes Sandra Bullock with him.

And I'm like, if you didn't do that, nobody would chase you.

You just go.

Like, why, why bother?

You know, there's literally the attention.

There's literally a part in this afternoon.

I'm always self-sabotaging.

He was the main character for a while, and he likes the spotlight.

Yeah.

There's an earlier part where Cap has beaten up Giancarlo Esposito and then the leader calls him to be like, good work or like whatever, just as I expected.

It's like, dude, you know where a manipulator usually lurks?

The shadows.

It works better that way.

Well, but I guess there is a feeling of like, if nobody knows, then what's the, there's another Astro City issue about this at that point, too, where this guy who's called the Toy Maker or Toy Box or something,

he pulls off the greatest heist.

And the problem is he's rich and he gets away away with it, but nobody knows he did it.

And so he goes back and deliberately gets caught so that people can know that he did it.

And then he escapes again.

But the idea that, like, how, how you want the notoriety, you want the reputation, which if they had built that into the leader, Samuel Stearns, I think it would have been great.

I've been in this hole for decades because of for years because of Ross.

I want people to know who I am.

I want people to know the name Samuel Stearns, but they don't do that.

I made him what he was.

I deserve credit for all that.

Exactly.

I'm the man who made Thunderbolt Ross, and I want people to know I'm the man who broke Thunderbolt Thunderbolt Ross.

So there's a little bit of a scene with Cap, Falcon, and the leader just yapping at each other.

They do a lot of talking.

And then a whole bunch of soldiers that have been brainwashed show up, and we get a little bit of a battle.

They try to, and in the carnage, the leader escapes.

Camp and Falcon link up with

Ruth Batsaroff, who initially is there to maybe take them into custody, but then she realized what's going on.

and they team up to beat up a bunch of soldiers.

She uses her Black Widow training.

Yeah.

How do you guys feel about the fights in this one?

Did you enjoy any of the fights in this?

I found them kind of like, meh.

Yeah, not really.

Yeah.

I mean, I thought the, I think this one was probably

the scene where they're fighting in the

lab.

I think the fight in the lab was kind of the most interesting because it felt like, it felt the most like, oh no, they might actually get fucked up in this one.

Yeah, they're being hit with taser batons and things like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Force batons.

Am I losing my taste for like fight scenes?

Is that what it is?

I feel like the last couple action movies we've seen where there's just kind of like fist fighting, I've been like, eh, I don't know.

And I already have lost my taste for gunfights to a certain extent.

Am I losing?

What's happening to me, guys?

Well,

I think a lot of them that are done these days are pretty uninspired.

I think that's a big part of it, especially like,

especially with like big blockbusters do it worse than smaller movies where, you know, the emphasis is on, you know, fight choreography and stunts.

Like, these are so,

I don't know.

It's just like, I will say, I did like the fights in Love Hurts more than the fights in this one.

And I did watch Police Story again not too long ago, and the fights in that are pretty amazing.

All right, maybe it's the movies.

Maybe it's not me.

Yeah.

Maybe it's the pictures that got small.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Pictures got small.

Okay.

So they, uh, the three of them go to a military base where the soldiers that we had met in the initial Oaxaca incident are holding Sidewinder.

There's also, I want to point out one of the characters in here that you don't get to see much of.

One of the soldiers, they just call him Dunphy.

And this is clearly Dennis Dunphy, the character of D-Man, one of my favorite D-list Marvel characters.

He is a guy with super strength who is always wants to be a hero.

He was one of Captain America's sidekicks for a while, and he's just kind of a lovable lunk.

And for a long time, was a homeless character, like a homeless superhero.

And I always wanted to write a D-Man series and i never got the chance to so just want to mention they bring

they don't do much with him but d-man is one of those characters that is talked about by like like deep cut fans who are like oh man i would love to do i feel like marvel was constantly getting pitches from like weirdos like weird comedy writers who are like

i got this great idea they're like another d-man idea i pitched them a d-man series one point where he was going to be traveling around america dealing with the the city going to the cities that other characters don't deal with and the idea was that um he goes each of these cities and he finds that the uh the small-time villains that are local to these areas are being pushed out by this kind of walmart of of bigger villains who realize if they hang around new york they're going to get beat up by thor but if they go to kansas city it's not going to be as big a problem and so he's got to deal with all these villains coming in and pushing out the local villains and it would have been really fun Yeah, that's a good idea.

Okay, so they while they're there, they interrogate Sidewinder, who kind of gives a little bit of background on why he stole this stuff and yada, yada, yada.

Meanwhile, are.

Once you capture somebody, they immediately will talk to you if you promise them something, which is what we're learning.

Once somebody is in a captive situation, they're happy to talk and just tell you stuff in this movie.

Especially with the sense of like, I'm going to tell you this, but I'm going to escape and then I'm going to kill you, Captain America.

Meanwhile, in the Indian Oceans, tensions have increased.

Japan is heading to the celestial, and the U.S.

is, including President Ross, are en route to intercept them.

They launch some fighters.

Those fighters are brainwashed by the leader who has snuck into a house and is calling people with the house phone.

Yeah, he's somehow able to figure out how to use a domestic phone to just kind of call fighter jets.

Fighter jets and like the earpiece the president has.

He's a genius.

He's a super genius.

I'll buy it.

I'll buy it.

Yeah.

So

I mean, I wish he had kind of a machine he hooked up to the phone that allowed him to do this, but instead he's just talking into a regular landline phone, but whatever.

Yeah, if he had like some weird invention he made, like, yeah, um, because he had plenty of time to make weird inventions that in E.T., Elliott makes a more interesting-looking invention out of his toys, you know, and a sawblade.

But, you know, that's ET.

That's also one of the greatest movies ever made.

So it's unfair to compare this to that.

You know, the brainwashed pilots attack the Japanese Navy.

Japan retaliates.

Cap and Falcon arrive and have to try and break this up.

They got there pretty fast with their little suits, right?

I feel like they got into the Indian Ocean.

They get from West Virginia to the Indian Ocean pretty quickly.

Yeah.

On what are essentially just like gliders.

That's one thing that bothered me more about these wings, where I'm like, he's doing a lot of like from the ground flying in a way that I'm like, I don't know how this

legacy grows.

There's propulsion in there.

There's some kind of propulsion.

What bothers me more is Red Wing, his sidekick, who is in the comics is an actual living bird.

And here is some kind of freaking robot that shoots lasers out.

I don't like that at all.

Yeah, it's not as cool.

No.

Okay, so they managed to stop the brainwashed pilots, they manage to shoot down uh the missiles that have all been blasted all over creation.

Japan stands down, but in the process, Joaquin Torres gets gravely injured, and they have to airlift him.

Is this the end of the new Falcon?

Oh, no, guys, will he survive?

And are they gonna kill Isaiah Bradley in the movie?

I'm in such suspense about what's gonna happen to these characters.

So, Captain goes to visit.

Uh, oh, yeah, meanwhile, during this whole debacle, uh, President Ross, while being yelled at by Stearns over his earpiece,

almost gives into his rage and his eyes become red.

This is one of those things that you're supposed to, I think, be intrigued and mystified by what's going to happen.

But all of the advertising was about the president turns into a Red Hulk and beats the shit out of Captain America.

So, yeah.

This is one of those things.

I mean, this is a thing where, like, if they had had enough other stuff in the movie to make it look interesting, they should have kept the Red Hulk stuff from the ads because that's way more interesting.

I think you're right.

I think they just didn't have an end.

Watching it, I was like, they should have had the Red Hulk stuff in the middle of the movie and then escalated it somehow from that because it's the most fun thing in the movie.

And that's why the advertising was all about it.

But the whole time you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

When's he going to turn into the Hulk?

When's he going to do that?

Well, if a bunch of snake guys showed up at the very end, it'd be like, haha, we got you.

If he was fighting Snake Man, I'd be like, I can wait for Red Hulk to show up.

He's fighting a guy whose body is a snake's body.

Well, especially because the rest of the movie is this like, we got to run from one place to the next place, to the next place, to unravel this like, not that interesting conspiracy.

Like

that type of movie, I was wondering, you know, like it works in Winter Soldier.

What is, what makes it boring here?

I think there's a couple reasons why.

One is in Winter Soldier, there's just, it's just made better.

Like it's just written and directed and it's, and there's more going on.

And it helps that camp is like a man out of time and it adds a little extra layer of interest for me.

And I think that they did.

I think if you didn't know the Winter Soldier story, then the reveal that Bucky's the Winter Soldier is a big, exciting reveal that they did not advertise ahead of time.

The character is cool enough as just a mysterious assassin that it was like, oh, Captain America's met his match.

I guess that's what this movie is about.

But also, I think because they did a better job of making the character personally invested in what's going on.

Captain America is the Chris Evans version of Captain America has such a strong personality.

And the idea of this character who is an optimist,

a guy who is flush with the ideals of FDR's America, that he's dealing with this kind of seamier stuff or these secrets is an interesting parallel and juxtaposition.

It gets to the heart of why that character is special, that he's not a part of these things.

And then when he finds out, oh, it's Bucky that's doing this.

There's a personal aspect to it.

Whereas here, all the personal stakes, I mean, that Captain America's, that the Sam Wilson Captain America is that his friend is in jail.

Like, that's something.

That his other friend gets hurt, but these are not, they don't really go to the heart of who he is.

And the real personal stakes are the president's, that he's doing all this because he doesn't want his daughter to keep thinking of him as a monster.

And so it was like,

this movie in a lot of ways is really about President Ross.

And Captain America and the Falcon are there to, I guess, push the story forward.

And it feels like it's the center of the movie is not in the right place, you know, for what we're being asked for.

And I think that's part of the, and also that the conspiracy is not.

that interesting.

In Winter Soldier, it's a lot about they're covering up this thing that happened, that's been going on for a long time.

And like, it feels like the ground is really dropping out of him because how long has this been going on?

Whereas here, it's like kind of a dumb plan.

It's a new thing that the whole thing is just to make the president look bad.

You know, it feels like the stakes are very, very low.

You know, I think that's my off-the-dome diagnosis.

You guys, now it's time for your rebuttal.

Tell me why I'm wrong.

You look dumb.

Oh, man.

You got me.

I do look dumb.

So,

Captain America confronts.

Another point for debating debating Dan McCoy.

Oh, now I feel bad.

You look great.

He confronts the president about his ties to Samuel Stearns.

He claims that the reason he takes these pills is

it has to do with some kind of heart condition that is unspecified.

It's the only heart condition that can only be saved by being a little bit of a Hulk.

Yeah.

While he's visiting Joaquin in the hospital, we see Bucky again, who is running for office.

We will later find out i believe he wins right he is a senator right by the uh thunderbolts yeah do we oh is he is he a senator or a representative i don't remember i mean it doesn't matter but he's in congress again the idea that he wins after decades being a soviet assassin is is silly but whatever i would i would buy that kind of thing again look at look at look at who's yeah that's true look at you well actually i think it would disqualify him that he has actual military service as opposed to many of the people in the government now but uh the some of them have military service.

They're just bad people.

But I think I would buy that silliness more if this movie was a little okay with snake villains.

I feel like if you had real snake villains, so much this movie feels different, looks different, is cooler.

I'm sure Bucky Barnes is running for Congress.

Why not?

There's fucking snake men running around.

Throw snake men in there.

And honestly, if you're going to have the leader in there, you're going to have Red Hulk and

General Ross.

You should have Bruce Banner in there at least a little bit.

Have the Hulk show up at some point or explain why the Hulk is not involved in this story.

I think they should have had Red Hulk, they should have the president become Red Hulk in the middle, and a lot of the rest of the movie should have been the chase after the Red Hulk.

They got to get him or stop him or something like that.

That feels like a more fun.

And the Serpent

to Japan.

And the Serpent

wants to turn him into Snake Hulk, and that's why they got to stop him.

It's not that it's super important, and there's probably been a struggle.

Joanne is coming out

in theater's now, Dan.

So that's super important.

Yeah.

Not that it.

You meant Captain Important.

Yeah.

Not that it's Captain Important, but

maybe it's been addressed in like a throwaway line.

Like, where is the Hulk right now?

Like, what's he up to?

I don't think they mention him at all in the movie.

Yeah.

It's like post

all the, I don't know, like post-Hulk.

What did he do in She-Hulk?

Because I didn't watch that either.

He kind of hung out and he talked to

his cousin a little bit.

You know, he was like, this is the deal with being a Hulk.

I'm your Hulk guide.

You know.

Joel, like, walk like a man.

Stomp like a Hulk.

Smash like a Hulk.

Yeah, exactly.

Man,

I like that she-Hulk show.

I liked it too.

That's what I'm talking about.

I should watch it sometime.

I never got around to it, but I should watch it.

I'm warning you, Elliot.

Like the comic book, it's a comedy.

Yeah.

What?

What?

Nerds on the internet were very angry to discover that.

I hate it when

nerds on the internet.

I hate it when nerds on the internet are like, can you believe they did this to this character?

And they're the idiots.

They're the ones who are unaware of how that character has functioned for the past 30 years.

Well, the idea, this is the craziest thing.

This is not what, I'm doing a mini in a couple of weeks, but this is not the mini that I want to do.

But the idea that they're like, now we're getting a woke Superman who's like an immigrant refugee and fights for the poorest among us.

And it's like, have you ever read a Superman comic?

Like, this is mixed in

1938.

Like, come on.

My father-in-law said that on Thursdays.

Like, I hear this Superman's woke now.

I'm like, I fucking hope so.

It's like Superman's earliest adventures were literally beating up landlords that were overcharging people.

Like, come on.

Like, this is

the idea that these, I mean, it's just, I mean, they don't care.

It's just, they make these complaints for money because it gets attention and things like that.

But the idea that, like, yeah, yeah, the character was created by the sons of Jewish immigrants who were poor in the 30s is woke is like, can we believe it?

What's going on here?

It's just so dumb.

Anyway.

So Samuel Stearns kills D-Man.

So that must have bummed you out, yeah.

I was almost as sad as when D-Man died in the real comics.

Yeah.

Maybe, Maybe this is the crucible in which D-Man is forged and comes back

and D-Man.

Yeah, I thought when he becomes Demolition Man, or Destroy, whatever his name is.

Okay.

And then

after a brief conversation with Captain America, Samuel Stearns is arrested by the police because this is all part of his plan, all part of his master plan.

Meanwhile,

the president is giving a press conference and people are actually like holding him accountable.

What's that like?

And of course,

everybody starts wrestling him and then he wrestles back and then he becomes Hulk.

This was one of the stranger that he's like, gets really mad and he's like,

and they start grappling with him.

And the Secret Service, it was weird.

As soon as he turns into the Hulk, before he even smashes anything, they immediately start shooting guns at him.

And I'm like, I don't know.

When you're a Secret Service agent, I feel like you shouldn't be shooting at the president even when he's a Hulk.

Like, maybe make him do something dangerous first.

But it was very, how quickly he went in their minds from president to Hulk seemed very unprofessional for the Secret Service.

And also, like, president president to, like, Hulk, like, guns wouldn't work on that guy either.

He's the Hulk.

That's true.

Yeah.

And also,

he doesn't get killed by guns.

I mean, I know the Hulk because,

you know, we all know Hulk Smash.

But the Hulk, the last time we saw him, did help, you know, save the world.

So I don't know.

But this Hulk is a red, Dan.

He's a red color fan.

Maybe this is a good Hulk who, when he Hulks out, his clothes burn off.

Yeah.

Does he see like his clothes burn off?

Yeah, he like caught fire.

The power of the rage inside of him burns off his clothes.

Okay, so except for the little bit around his tush and his penis.

Don't worry, that's not hot enough, you know, to get it to burn.

He's not 28 years later.

That's pretty hot to me.

So

the Hulk has a little bit of a rampage.

He destroys a bunch of stuff around there.

There's a podium in front of him.

The whole time I was like, when's he going to just wipe that skin?

Slap that podium away.

Oh, there he goes.

Okay, good.

And

Captain America messes with him.

He starts, he keeps throwing these like vibranium blades out of his wings.

And I'm like, those little blades have to be so expensive, right?

Yeah, like little bits of, is somebody going and picking them all up?

I mean, and they stole that from Archangel.

That's Archangel's thing.

That's Archangel's thing.

Are his wings vibranium or adamanteum?

You know what?

That's a good question.

I don't know.

There's some alien metal that Apocalypse uses.

So

they could be, who knows what they are.

I'll look it up.

You keep talking about this.

I'll look it up.

They're Adamanteum.

What are Archangel's wings made of?

Yeah, what's Warren Worthington III's wings made

So he

Captain America leads Hulk away from people.

Oh, okay.

So they're made out of some kind of techno-organic metal.

Oh, I'm an idiot.

Okay, so he leads the Red Hulk away.

They end up in a

Google,

sometimes it's described as Edmantium or a similar metal.

So

I think there's a controversy over what kind of metal it's made out of.

Yeah, or it could just be Google AI lying to us as it is wants to do.

That's also possible too.

So it could be Admantium.

Anyway, the point is those blades would be super expensive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

Hulk chases Captain America to a field of cherry blossoms where they battle for a little while.

And having been playing a lot of Elden Ring lately and some other souls-like games, this reminds me a lot of those souls-like fights where there's a lot of dodging this wing giant guy who's swinging and occasionally blocking.

I basically enjoyed this part.

This is what you were asking for earlier, Elliot.

A truly big guy going up against a guy without actual powers.

Yes, and I think this is, by far, this was for me the most fun part of the movie is when it's Captain America versus the Hulk and they're at the cherry blossom, the famous DC cherry blossoms, and it's like, great, this is a cool location.

It's a cool, these are cool characters.

I think they could have had, even if you're not going to ruin the excitement of Captain America fighting a really big guy, that guy in the beginning could have been a little bigger or had maybe snake powers, something to make him more than just like a dude.

Thank you.

But

I think that this is the best part of the movie for me.

This part actually lived up to a little bit of my hopes for it, where it's like Captain America versus this big red Hulk, you know.

So they have a function.

I found it very distracting that his Harrison Ford's face, though.

Did you guys find that, even though, knowing he's the Harris American?

Harry's face should have.

Even the Mark Ruffalo Hulk, like it looks a little bit like him, but not just like him.

This looked just like Harrison Ford to me.

So it felt strange.

Yeah, he's naturally.

I don't know.

It's like a lot of fan

art that I've done over the years.

So Harrison Ford,

like really strong and red.

And his feet are giant.

Yeah, really giant feet.

Yeah.

So they.

But in yours, he's usually making love to Sonic the Hedgehog.

That's right.

Uh-huh.

He's the one who called it.

That's what's crazy.

Because it really is.

I mean, the way he does it is very sensitive.

So the way you draw it is very sensual.

And the way you show Shrek watching them adds to the sensuality of it.

Yeah.

As Shrek holds hands with the green MM.

Yeah, it really adds to the sensuality of it.

Are they watching through a window or from the door?

No, no, they're sitting in, they're sitting in twin bathtubs.

They're sitting in twin bathtubs holding hands, watching this happen on a bed that's covered in cherry blossom petals.

Yeah.

Guys,

I don't need to reveal anything, but the green MM's

on my hall path list.

Well, I mean, I feel like that's a pretty safe one for Charlene.

I mean, I don't even know how you dig a penis into her.

She's got a candy shell.

I'll figure it out.

So,

she's Louise.

So, we.

I didn't think that the Captain America breaking the world episode would somehow be the filthiest flophouse episode in years, I think.

So,

we get the big moment where Captain America spears the Hulk with his super strong wing, and then it explodes with all the pent-up kinetic energy it's absorbed,

tossing them both aside.

We think maybe this has stopped the Hulk, but in fact, he is still going.

Sam gets up and he just approaches the Hulk and he convinces him that, remember, you keep talking about these cherry blossoms and how you want to take your daughter, Liv Tyler, to see them.

Let's just do this shit.

And he's like, you know what?

You're right.

And he melts and becomes Harrison 40.

He off-camera melts and becomes.

Yeah, we just see a shadow.

But yeah,

the president's whole motivation the entire movie is, I need to show my daughter who won't talk to me that I'm not a bad guy.

So that's why I'm creating a treaty.

That's why I'm trying to do good things, that kind of stuff.

So just get to it.

And, you you know, we don't really get into it much, which is odd because like this would be the sort of central irony of the whole thing.

She thinks he's a bad guy because he, you know, he chose, he chased the Hulk.

He like bedeviled the Hulk, who was

her boyfriend, you know, and the fact that then he turns into a Hulk himself, it seems like that would be, there'd be more hay made of that fact.

But I guess they figured, not wrong, that like, well, that happened a long time ago.

People aren't really this up foremost in the mcu fans mind i think i think they i think they're they're they're expecting the audiences to connect the dots on that one yeah i guess it's just

as nietzsche said if you go hunting hulks you risk becoming a hulk you know

so okay then we got we got some wrap-up here uh let's see uh nope that's not the card wrap up nope that's not the card okay it's one of those two that are just yeah so uh

captain america goes to talk to joaquin who's recovering in the hospital, and he basically extends an invitation to a formation of the Avengers.

Meanwhile,

Ross has been interred into the raft, the super prison out in the ocean.

He gets a visit from his daughter.

He gets a visit from Sam, and we learn that

there has been peace.

We don't know who's the new president.

Is it a Hulk?

Maybe.

Probably not.

You never know.

And then finally, in a post-credits scene, which I actually watched, guys, look, all of us can change.

Some of us become Hulks when they change.

Others of us become good podcasters.

He

it sounded like you said podcasters to me for a moment.

It just means that you're fishing in a pond.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

So

in the post-credits scene, Sam goes to the raft and visits the leader, who basically just talks about multiverses.

And this, of course, is when they're trying to bring up the idea of multiverses so that we remember the fact that that's all they've been talking about for the last however many movies, which is, I'm sure, this is Stewart's little

Stuart's little theory corner.

I'm sure that's what's going to happen in the Avengers Doomsday movie, is that Robert Downey Jr.

is coming back because in some other dimensions, Tony Stark, he is Dr.

Doom and not Iron Man.

I'm 100% sure of that.

If I'm wrong, I will be shocked.

No, I'm sure that's the case.

I mean, what he's particularly leading up to is, because I think the new Marvel stuff is based on the most recent Secret Wars thing, is this that Jonathan Hickman did, where I think what they're doing is what they did in the comics there, where not just are there multiverses, but the multiverses are starting to merge together in what are called incursions.

And so when two worlds are about to incur, one of them has to be destroyed.

And in that series, the secret Illuminati that's made up of a bunch of Marvel characters, they start destroying these other worlds.

They're not snakemen.

No, it's like Doctor Strange and Professor X and, you know, Naomi or whatever.

And they start, and Black Panther, they start destroying these other worlds before they can endanger our Earth.

And so I think you're right that it's going to be some alternate world where Tony Stark became Doctor Doom.

Very disappointing.

I want Dr.

Doom to have an Eastern European accent.

I want him to be the monarch of Liveria, but maybe he will be.

Maybe, I don't know.

Maybe he will be doing that, you know.

But I think

we can hope.

When he's like, when these threats come from other worlds, Captain America, like, I think that's what he's talking about, particularly, specifically.

Yep.

Okay.

And Doom said in the Secret Wars comics, eventually Doom like put a bunch of worlds together into its into Last Surviving World, and I bet that'll be what they do with it.

It was not a story that I loved particularly.

Let's sound like a very Jonathan Hickman story.

It's a very Jonathan Hickman story.

Yeah.

Let's do our final judgments on Caption America, Brave New World.

Is this a good

mad movie?

A good bad movie.

A bad, bad movie.

This movie's good and mad.

I mean, it's got a Red Hulk in it.

Or a movie we kind of liked.

Here's the thing.

I saw this

in the theater,

even though I had heard it was not that great.

But I

am that bought into

seeing these things that I went out, had a little movie pick me up, and knowing walking in that it was not going to be that great, I kind of liked it just because it was like, well, yeah, I'm seeing some of my old friends again.

They're doing stuff.

Rewatching it at home,

it was a real slog,

but I don't think any of us in this world,

other than bad movie podcasters, are going to make the choice to watch this movie twice.

So

I'll still, I have to go with my initial assessment that it's a movie I kind of liked, but it is.

near the floor of these movies for me.

Yeah,

I think that's right.

I mean, I think it, it doesn't kind of, it doesn't help that this is part of a number of movies that I've watched recently, like recent action movies where they have,

where the president is involved in some kind of action or something, whether the president is,

you know, like Viola Davis or the president is John Cena or the president is a Hulk.

In all these cases, I'm like, I would rather that president be my president.

And I, yeah, so, but yeah, I mean, I feel like of the Marvel movies, this is probably the one that has felt the least, like,

this one has felt the most joyless of all them, maybe.

I think partly, you know, it's, it obviously was edited to death, and it just doesn't feel like, it doesn't feel very fun.

And despite the fact there's a giant President Hulk running around, it doesn't feel like, it doesn't feel very special.

Like, there's no special moments.

And they ignore kind of one of the key tenets of

these these Marvel movies, which is one of the things that's been so successful is leaning into keying into what makes a character a certain amount of wish fulfillment for a person.

Like Thor is like a big, dumb, strong guy who gets to kind of do whatever he wants and have fun.

Tony Stark is the smartest man of the room all the time, that sort of thing.

Captain America is this guy who's out of time and is also like super strong, can like is super capable of doing things.

And I feel like Sam doesn't, they don't do enough stuff to make him

fun, like to make him the lead.

Um, and I think there's, I think there's space there.

I mean, we've talked about how, like, I think if they leaned more into the fact that he's just like effectively a regular guy in this crazy world and he's just doing his best, is that's a much more interesting take on the character that they could lean into, I think, more.

Um, but yeah, this is, I would, it's tough to say.

I guess this is a movie I kind of like because these things are all like fine, like the base level of quality is higher than a lot of the things we watch.

Um, and it wasn't quite as

it wasn't the like visual mess that Quantum Mania was.

So I guess it was fine, whatever.

Yeah.

I mean, I would say

I would call it bad, bad, but kind of for the same reasons.

I find it kind of bland and just kind of functional and kind of dull.

And it is the, I think the Marvel movie that made the least impression of me.

Say what you'll about Quantumania.

We did do a whole podcast about it.

It at least made an impression on me.

Whereas this one, it was like, all right, yeah,

they made this.

Yeah, like this happened.

And it feels like it is a almost even as they're making it, it feels like

they're not trying to make it more than unforgettable or more than forgettable.

It's the 35th one.

Like at a certain point, I feel like

this is the point where if I was a Marvel executive or a Disney executive, I would be like, okay, I think we're running out of special.

So let's like take five years off from making these and then we can come back with something special.

it's not, if you watch it, it's not like it's a, it's a terrible worst movie ever made or anything, but it's just kind of while you're watching it, you're like, all right, like, I don't really see the purpose for any of this other than to keep the brand going.

So I'm going to say bad, bad, but it's not, but I've seen worse bad, bad movies than this one.

I've seen worse Raves Elliott of the Fluffhouse.

Are you a celebrity?

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Hi, I'm Kamel Nanciani, actor, writer, and yes, a celebrity too.

And I've got four words for you.

Bullseye with Jesse Thorne.

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Do you want to connect with someone who gets your work and laugh with you a little?

Join me, Andre3000, Tom Hanks, Tina Faye, and many more and become a guest on Bullseye with Jesse Thorne from NPR and Maximum Fun.

Walking About is the podcast about walking.

It's a walkumentary series where I, Alan McLeod, and a fun, friendly guest go for a walkabout.

You'll learn about interesting people and places and have the kind of conversations you can only have on foot.

We've got guests like Lauren Lapkis.

I figured something out about this map.

Like how to read it.

Betsy Sedaro.

I had no key.

That's awesome and nuts.

John Gabris.

This is like great first date for like broke 20 something, you know?

And more.

Check out Walkin' About with Alan McLeod on Maximum Fun.

The Flophouse podcast is, of course,

mostly supported by listeners like you, who are members at maximumfun.org.

But Stuart, I believe you have a sponsor to tell us about this week.

Yeah, and to lead in, I'm going to mention that in addition to running three different bars here in Brooklyn, my wife is in the process of opening up a fitness studio called Jiggle Studio.

You can follow our progress

on Instagram, Jiggle Studio BK.

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But with the help of Squarespace, our sponsor, it can make your life a little bit easier.

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And the user interface is really easy, even if you do not have that kind of design background and you are a small business owner who's just trying to get your website up and running so that you can open your little gym.

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We've got a bit in the way of show news, but before I get into that, Ellie, do you have any personal plugs you want to do?

I've always got personal plugs.

You know about me, I love to plug things and I love to unplug them.

But today I'm going to plug them.

And it's the same stuff that you know I'm always talking about.

Go to your comic book store once a month and pick up Harley Quinn from DC Comics.

I've been writing it and I've been having a ball writing it.

Go to your podcast feed when you're done with this episode and maybe check out Clueless on the Smartless Network.

That's the puzzle podcast that I host.

And of course, there's my new children's book, Sadie Mouse Wrecks the House.

Go to your local independent bookstore and pick up a copy of that.

It's a great picture book for kids.

It's really fun.

Kids love it.

So those are a bunch of new things.

And I've got my, I've got a book coming out in November.

We'll talk about that more later in the year.

Until then, here are your assignments.

Go buy Sadie Mouse Rex the House.

Go pick up Harley Quinn in your comic book store.

Don't pick her up.

Just pick up the comic book that she's in and then take it to the register and then buy it and then read it.

And go listen to Clueless when you're done with this.

Dan, what about you?

What do you got to say?

Elliot, I, you know, your...

Your first trade paperback of Harley Quinn is going to be out towards the end of July.

I have it.

Oh, is it?

Oh, you know more about this than I do.

Thank you.

Well, it was because I've had it pre-ordered for quite some time because

I can never remember to go buy individual issues of comics.

It's really hard.

I've been recently doing it for both Elliott's comics and a friend of the podcast, Xander Cannon's new book, Sleep.

And it's tough for me to get back in the habit.

Yeah, that's hard.

And I don't like reading them digitally.

So I was just waiting for

a way to see

what I've been hearing about from Elliot all these low these many months.

And finally, I'm going to get to dig in.

you're right it comes out july 29th that's harley quinn volume one destructive comics uh and it collects what the first it's 152 pages according to this it collects the first uh six issues of my run um so you'll be introduced to harley's new world of throat cutter hill that's the neighborhood she's in and some of her new characters that she's uh dealing with there's a couple of new villains in there that are really silly are they snake men I've got to get a snake man in there.

That's what I should do next.

Yeah.

Yes, that comes out at the end of July.

Harley Quinn Volume 1 Destructive Comics and the issues come out once a month.

Yeah.

Well, enough about Elliot.

Now

I'm going to make a,

well, it's one third still about Elliot.

I want to mention that Flop TV season three is officially coming.

We've been talking about it.

Flop TV is back.

We're going to be streaming six episodes once a month

from September through February of next year.

First Saturday of the month, September through February.

And we'll be in our usual time slot, the first Saturday of the month at 9 p.m.

Eastern, 6 Pacific.

And this year, the Flophouse is going back in time.

Not literally, although, God knows, wouldn't that be nice?

No, this year, the theme is Flopsterpiece Theater.

And we'll be covering significant bad movies decade by decade, starting in the 2000s and working our way back to the 1950s.

Almost like a what if the flop house had existed when this movie had existed.

Yeah.

We're going to be going back.

What's on the menu menu?

In September, we'll discuss 2002's Mega Flop of the Adventures of Pluto Nash.

I'm genuinely very excited about talking about this one because I cannot believe this movie exists.

I've been thinking about it ever since it first came out.

I've never seen it.

I'm excited.

I've never seen it either.

In October, we'll discuss 1998's Jack Frost.

That's not the campy horror movie.

It's the one where Michael Keaton dies and becomes a snowman.

He's also a jazz musician.

In November, coming in just under the wire for the 80s, will be 1980s Xanadu, which is a spoiler alert, actually a pretty fun movie, a silly movie.

December's film will be a big movie in flophouse lore.

It's 1974's Zardaz.

This is going to be an interesting one for me because there's a lot in Zardaz that I like.

So get ready for it.

In January, we're going to discuss the movie that helped kill Old Hollywood.

1967's Dr.

Doolittle.

And in February, we're going to round everything out with one of the Mountain Rushmore bad movies, 1957's Plan 9 from Outer Space, directed by Ed Wood, the bad movie Auteur, who had a biopic made about him when Tommy Wizzo was still selling regular blue jeans.

Tickets will not be on sale until July 26th, but I'm going to put the link in your brain now so you can bookmark it, or maybe you're listening to this in the future.

But when you can get tickets, go to theflophouse.simpletics.com, and that's ticks TIX.

Just like last time,

show ticks for individual shows will be $7 or you can get a whole season pass for $35, which is the equivalent of getting one episode for free.

So

you mean we're giving away an episode if people buy the season pass?

What are we doing?

We're essentially

giving away an episode for money.

So come the sale date in late July.

That link again is theflophouse.simpletics.com.

We hope you'll join us.

And really quick, I also wanted to mention that some listeners have set up a flophouse Discord.

I've mentioned it briefly in passing before, but I want to try and shout it out more regularly.

If you're sick of some of the poisonous social media sites out there, but still want to connect with other podcast listeners, you can go to

http slash slash or colon slash slash, you know that part.

I don't need to say it.

You know, yeah, I think people are ready for it.

Lastnamewithheld.com.

LastNameWithheld.com.

And join up and chat with the lovely folks that hang out over there.

So that's that.

That's that.

Let's get on to

some letters from listeners.

And

just as soon as I open up the separate email that that stuff is in.

Okay, I've got it.

Dan, someday I want to introduce you to a new thing called tabs.

Tabs.

Is that multiple cans of tab cola or whatever?

That's exactly what it is.

It's keeping your energy up so you can open those emails faster by drinking multiple cans of tab.

So this must be by Tab Hunter.

This email.

Win a date with Tad Hamilton.

No, Tab Hamilton.

What did I say?

Well, it's Tad Hamilton.

No, but it should be Tab Hamilton.

Tab Tamilton?

Yeah, that's right.

Was he the one who must die, or was that somebody else who had must die?

John Tucker must die.

John Carter.

John Carter must die.

Yeah.

Get Carter must die.

Win a date with Michael Clayton.

Spencer last name withheld.

Gifts.

Write thus to say, Dear Peaches, I was digging in my garden, catching up with a heartbeats episode when suddenly I heard the three hosts talking about Tucson, Arizona.

Here's the thing.

My office in Ohio closed down recently and I lost my job.

So my wife and I had been discussing moving back to our hometown of Tucson, Arizona.

I had applied for dozens of jobs and had a few interviews, but hadn't heard back in weeks and was starting to feel discouraged.

And now there I was, shovel in hand, podcast in my ear, hearing Dan, Stewart, and Elliott literally say, go to Arizona.

Go to Tucson, Arizona.

Welcome to Tucson.

What a strange coincidence, I thought to myself.

I hope that's a sign.

And guys, I swear with Crom as my witness, not 20 minutes later, I got a phone call from HR offering me a job and a relocation package to help me move back to Tucson, Arizona.

So my question is,

when you guys are weaving the dark tapestry that decides my fate, are you aware of the decisions you're making and how it affects me?

Or am I just one thread in the cosmic forces that flow through you?

Are we the three spinners?

Either way.

Yeah.

Thanks.

Keep on flopping.

Spencer last name with Hope.

One spins, one measures, one cuts.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

No, no, you have to measure twice, cut once.

Oh, oh, oh, two of them measure and then one of them cuts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I

wonder if that's an exciting story.

I hope you have a lovely time in Tucson, Arizona.

I hope so, too.

There's a, you know, I wonder like what

other lives were affecting.

It's just like when a butterfly flaps its wings in Peru and suddenly

Japan goes for that adamantium island and gets in war with the United States or whatever.

Well, if you if your life has been affected by the flop house in a strange, mysterious, and perhaps diabolical way, please write in and tell us about it.

Yeah, and then we'll uh you know we'll submit it to unsolved mysteries

and say what it's been solved.

I don't understand

that show is so fucked up to watch now because you're like, Did they ever catch those fucking guys?

It's been like 30 years.

Are they behind me right now?

This is uh, this is a letter from Anne Maria.

Anne Marie's last name with health.

It sounded like I said Anne Maria briefly, so I had to say that.

I said Anne Marie.

Yeah, no, it's it's from Anne Marie, last name withheld.

Dear OPs,

I'm happily and unexpectedly pregnant after years of infertility.

Congratulations.

Yeah.

For whatever reason, I haven't been able to listen to anything except the flop house since I found out.

Relistening to old episodes, I heard a pre-parenthood Elliot say she assumed that regardless of how cool a parent he is, their kids would think they are a loser.

Has that prediction come true?

That prophecy has been fulfilled.

That was what I was going to say.

That was the next question.

Has that prediction turned out to be true?

She also asked, what movies should I watch to prepare for being a parent?

Most importantly, what the hell do I name a boy?

Thanks.

Love Anne Marie.

So

I mean, you can name a boy whatever you want.

That's the great thing about names is there's no laws in place.

Deathstalker,

Cyberman, Deathstalker 2.

Death Socker 2, Cyberman.

A Barbarian Queen.

Cyberworker 2.

All great names for boys or girls, to be honest.

I was thinking about the message.

Dan tipped me off, not about the letter, but about the question ahead of time.

And I've been thinking, what is a movie to watch to prepare you for parenting?

And honestly, there's only two I can think of.

And those movies are Gremlins and Gremlins 2, the new badge.

Like the sheer feeling of being overwhelmed in the chaos of a little thing demanding your attention and breaking stuff and making a mess.

But then you love them.

just like in gremlins uh so and they do funny things that are unexpected like in gremlins too and in the first gremlins to be honest.

So I would watch the gremlins movies to prepare for parenthood.

Yeah.

That's good advice.

Dan, do you have any parenting advice?

I've tried to avoid it mostly.

Mostly?

Do you like every now and then you do a day of parenting somewhere?

I've babysat people.

I don't know.

People?

Yeah, people.

I put that stuff on Craig's list.

Like us the devil.

Do people people want to be babysat by me?

Dan, I know a website you might want to go to.

Yeah.

Hey,

let's recommend some movies, movies that might be a better use of your time.

Why not?

I'm going to go out on a real limb here.

I'm going to recommend.

You're in shaky territory again.

I'm going to recommend an unknown.

tiny little movie called Jaws from 1975,

which I recommend because...

It's the 50th anniversary.

It's the 50th anniversary, but also just recently Audrey watched it for the first time

after

several times of me suggesting, hey, you want to see Jaws finally?

And

it's funny.

She's like told me that like multiple people have come up to her to be like, so how'd you like Jaws?

Because I had told them that she was finally watching Jaws.

It's just like, stop telling people that I finally watched Jaws.

But I was just so excited for someone to experience Jaws who had not seen it.

And

she loved it.

Like, you know,

seeing Star Wars late in life after having no particular knowledge of Star Wars and like being influenced by all the things that came after Star Wars, she was like, yeah, this is fine.

She didn't make a dent, but Jaws still has its power.

And

I don't know, like scene by scene, it's, you know, one of the most entertaining, if not the most entertaining, one of the

just in terms of like just fun storytelling, right up at the top of the mountain.

So, you know, if you haven't seen it in a while, watch Jaws.

Yeah.

If you like movies, watch that.

So I'm going to recommend a movie that is held in almost as high esteem.

And that is the second.

Gary Busey's Hider in the House.

And there's the punchline.

Dan, have you seen Hider in the House?

I don't think I've seen Hider in the House.

It's kind of like Parasite for Bad Movie Sickos,

where Gary Busey

plays a, uh, let's say, kind of weird dude.

Let's call him a hider

who finds a mansion that's being renovated and he climbs up into the attic and he makes himself a little hideaway in there.

Uh, and he sneaks out every once in a while and he tries to integrate himself in the family who are played by Mimi Rogers and Michael McKean.

Great cast.

This is a movie that I

feel like we I'm recommending it now partly so that I can put it on our radar so that we can do it for the podcast sometime because it is a blast.

Let's talk to Mill on both Tubi and YouTube in full.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Two thumbs up.

Mark of quality.

This was recommended to me by

Flophouse friend, Steve Kostansky, who

watched it while he was working on, I'm guessing, like heads exploding or something in his workshop.

I'm looking at, Stuart, now I'm excited about it.

I'm looking at in the Wikipedia entry, it says production that

they brought in a psychologist to make the Gary garybusey character as realistic as possible apparently it says after meeting with the psychologist garybuse was excited saying it was an a nar film he explained that nar meant no acting required gary said i am the character

it reads it reads on screen yeah uh i'm also gonna recommend an older movie no one's recommending new movies today which is great that's fine with me I haven't gotten to watch a lot of movies lately because I've been so busy and I had to watch Captain America, Brave New World for some reason.

You're watching, you're like halfway through Sinners, right?

I'm like a little bit less than halfway through Sinners.

I'm enjoying it so far.

It's amazing.

But my wife and I, we had some time together recently.

It was great.

And we got together and watched.

She said, I want to watch a black and white romantic comedy.

And I said,

let's see what's available right now.

And we watched Roman Holiday, which both of us had seen, but hadn't watched in a long time.

It's so great.

It's such a great movie.

It's so charming.

It feels so effortless and so fun.

And it's a movie that the stakes are incredibly low.

The stakes are, will this princess get caught for running away for a day to have fun in Rome?

Will the reporter be revealed as a reporter and not just some guy who's showing around Rome for the day?

But it's so effervescent, you know?

It's so fun to see them actually in Rome.

The comedy is funny.

The romance works really well.

The ending is, I love, like, and Audrey Hepburn is so magical in it.

Gregory Pack is great in it.

William Wyler.

William Wyler directed it, which was not a surprise because he's one of the all-time greats.

But it's just a, and the new version of it, at some point in the past, they updated the credits so that Dalton Trumbo, who had been blacklisted at the time, is now credited in the movie for writing it and coming up with the story.

So I'm happy to see him getting the credit he deserves for it.

But it's just a really fun movie.

It's so worth watching.

If you've never seen it and you want to see a romantic comedy that's just kind of like charming all the way through, then Roman Holiday is the one I will recommend to you.

Yeah, it's fun to see.

I can't even remember his name, Gregory Peck in a role like that.

Because like, I love Gregory Peck, but he has like this sort of like stiff energy, but it plays so beautifully off of like Audrey Hepburn's just total lightness.

It's yeah, it's it's one of these things where this, and this is, was Audrey Hepburn's first American movie.

I think she had been in, in, she had performed in other countries, but just like seeing the newness of her comes across so excitingly in the movie.

This movie is 72 years old, and when you're watching it, it still feels like someone new being brought into film in an exciting way.

So it's really good.

And yeah, Gregory Peck playing like kind of a, he's not a slimy character, but a less ethical character than you would usually see him in, other than like the boys from Brazil, where he's playing a Nazi, you know.

But in most of his movies, he's more of an upright character.

So it's just really fun.

Also, to see like how little Audrey Heffern is and how enormous Gregory Peck is, just the scale that their physical bodies are at.

It's, it's like, I don't know.

There's just something, there's so much fun in the movie.

So that's Roman Holiday.

Not to be confused with Roman Mars, my co-host on the 99% Visible Breakdown, The Powerbroker, still available.

You can still listen to it.

He got there before I could.

Well, thanks everyone for listening.

The Flothouse, of course, is part of the Maximum Fun podcast network.

Go over to maximumfun.org.

Check out all the other great podcasts on said network.

They've treated us.

Very well over the years.

Why don't you treat them well by checking out a new show?

Thank you to Alex Smith, our producer.

He goes by the name Howell Dotty.

That's H-O-W-E-L-L-D-A-W-D-Y.

And check out his music and his Twitch streams.

But for the flop house, I've been Dan McCoy.

I've been Stuart Wellington.

I'm Elliot Kalen.

Bye.

See ya.

Alex, I hope you enjoyed all the arguing.

What I love is Dan is the one who's like being sincere.

And the two of us are also like, poke, poke, poke, tease, tease, tease.

It's all facetious, but Dan gets real mad.

That's the way it works.

Okay.

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