FH Mini 139 - Tuboy Tube Talkin' (re)Turns!

Hey folks, Duart Wellington of the Flop House podcast here.

Now you're about to listen to a Flop House mini episode that was recorded after Jimmy Kimmel had been suspended, but before ABC had decided to reinstate him.

So some of the information may be a little out of date.

Now, though the immediate threat may be averted, we here at the Flophouse feel that the threat to freedom of speech continues on.

So much of the material we talk about will still be valid.

In any case, thank you for listening.

Bye.

Hey, everybody.

This is Stuart Wellington of the Flop House Podcast.

And this is another Flophouse mini episode.

And I'm joined by my two co-hosts.

Introduce yourselves.

All the way from Los Angeles, California, we have...

Dan McCoy and Elliot Kalen.

And I really hope that Alex was able to edit out the belch that happened right before he started saying hello to the audience.

I hope that he looped it.

Yeah, so they can make it their ringtone.

Yep.

Okay, so as now that I've established this is an episode of the Flop House and it's a Flophouse Mini.

Let's get the real intro.

This is a Flophouse Mini.

Yes.

Yes.

Let's get the real intro out of the way.

Alex, why don't you cue that theme music?

Because

we are.

Doing another Tube Boy talking tube to two dudes tonight.

That's right.

In this case, Two Boy refers to me, Stuart Wellington, aka two boy, and the two dudes I'm talking to are Dan and Elliott.

Tonight, because it's nighttime in New York, it's daytime where they're recording.

And it's right because that's where.

It's early evening where you are in New York.

Okay.

I didn't realize I was, I guess it's, that's wrong.

I just did, I was just, I won't want to get any Pinocchios on the podcast because you said 7-12 is nighttime.

Yeah.

This is all Pinocchios.

This is an all-pinocchio episode.

This is all goofs and sillies.

This is our whoops, all-goofs episode of Vlogmas.

Oh, if only.

If only

we had one of those in us.

But the thing is, our dedication to the truth and honesty overrules that.

So I am here in New York City, and I am recording this with my two co-hosts who are all the way in La La Land, the place where television comes from.

So I thought it'd be a great time for us to revisit a classic Stuart Wellington sub-mini premise, Two Boy Talk Television.

To just talk about television.

That's the premise.

Just talking about television.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So,

not the most elaborate premise.

I think everybody understands the premise.

I don't know that we need to keep burning stew on it.

I know.

I'm sorry.

No, it's okay.

Elliot's all whooped up.

I'm thrown off by having Dan next to me.

So I'm hurling the hostility I would normally hit him with at you.

Sorry.

Elliot's really nervous for Rosh Hashanah dinner tonight.

I guess.

Yeah, well, that's the thing is I know that I've got to build up some sins that I can atone for in a week and and a half.

Well, don't worry.

You'll have Dan there to hold your hand the whole time, right?

So that'll be fun.

Okay.

I guess.

Ooh, it feels nice.

Yeah.

Dan, your hands are so warm.

They're somehow gentle yet calloused, like a working man's hands.

So since we're talking about television.

So since we're talking about television and I'm talking with two television writers,

I think it's important that we address one of the biggest stories in television right now, a fellow named Jimmy Kimmel, who has lost his job because the president put his thumb on the scale.

Do you guys have opinions on this?

Yeah, I'm anti-American.

I think

it's a sign of not just

horrible authoritarian overreach on the part of the FCC and the federal government, but also cowardice and greed on the part of the corporations, which are the ones that ultimately took him away, because apparently every single fucking major media corporation in America is in the midst of merging with another media corporation and needs the FCC to approve it, which makes them

not only threatens the diversity of opinions and content that we could have, the diversity of material in entertainment,

that's go right off the bat, but also means that they are uniquely vulnerable to threats from the federal government to police the opinions and the types of statements and jokes that are made on their channels.

It's all very bad.

That's not the not-so-secret sub-issue to the clear,

you know, bullying by the government, which is that also we should be, we should have for years been more careful about the development of monopolies because shit likes this happened.

They're not all run by friendly rich uncle Penny bags who's just given $10 out whenever he wants to.

I mean, I don't think he's that friendly.

I mean, do you look at his face when he's judging that beauty contest?

No, that's insane.

He's very, he's, well, nobody wins the beauty contest.

That's the thing.

He doesn't judging it.

He wins second prize.

Yeah, I mean, he's pretty good looking.

I mean,

I will say it shows, it shows the corruption of the system that Rich Uncle Pennybags wins second place in the beauty contest.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I will say.

Maybe a mustache contest.

But it is true that for decades now, I think mergers in the entertainment, I mean, mergers in general have not been policed the way they should be.

And tech companies have monopolies over so many parts of our lives.

There's no real competition on them.

But for decades, entertainment mergers, I think, have been particularly not cared about because entertainment is not seen as a serious business.

It's seen as like a goofy, fake kind of like imaginary business that weirdos do and celebrities and there's and who cares.

And it's not treated as an industry where millions of people who are regular ordinary people, who are not celebrities and wealthy, make a living and have to live off of and use so many different kinds of skills.

And it's the kind of thing that, the kind of reason that we had a strike a couple of years ago.

But now because of these types of the fact that corporate work was not taken seriously as an issue, but now all sorts of local affiliates, including their news departments, are overseen by hyper-conservative mega-corporations.

So that's probably pretty good for speech, right?

Yeah.

So,

Stuart, but you were saying you want to take the opposite, that you actually were glad to see Kim get his

cracked out speech.

Yeah, I still have a chip on my shoulder since the man show, so I thought it was time.

Yeah.

The,

I think, I mean, so that makes the second late night show that's going away.

I think this highlights a very clear moment that this is not normal.

Right.

No, well, that unfortunately it highlights that this has become normal.

That if there's three, then that just becomes regular M.O.

is that if two, if a company is.

If a New York Times trend piece.

If what?

It becomes a New York Times trend piece.

It does become a New York Times trend piece.

Like

my favorite style trend piece ever, which was pot bellies are big in Brooklyn.

And it was like, no, the guys are just getting older.

But I think that fact that you've had twice this year companies that need approval for mergers throw throw away, cancel someone who is running afoul of the president.

Like that, it's the norm now, which sucks.

I don't like living in that world.

And they not only, they're, they're not only canceling the, the host and the people, but it's like the huge group of people.

Hundreds of people.

Just hundreds of people who are thrown out of work.

And they,

it's, that's not fair to them.

It's not good to them.

The point was made, you know, back at the, when Colbert, Colbert, this happened at Colbert, like there's a whole local economy, too, around these shows.

Like it brings money to the city that it's produced in over and above

the people who are employed.

Well,

I think there's been a, I mean, it's part of also a larger thing of like the government crowing about how it's fired so many people from the federal government.

The federal government employs a lot of people, and those are people.

Those are American citizens who pay taxes, have bills to pay, have families.

They're not this kind of like

subspecies that we want to throw away and shoot into the sun.

Or the movie subspecies.

If they were, that would be awesome.

That would be awesome.

It's this the idea that the government then kind of crows about, yeah, we're kicking people out of work, you know?

But I also think that

if the things they are saying about AI are true, which I don't know really that they are, where they're like, oh, yeah, this will eliminate 50% of white-collar jobs, then I think we all have a revolution on our hands and we'll have whole new issues to deal with.

So

once the middle class feels like it can no longer control its own life in any way or can't pay its bills, that's when historically they start to overthrow governments.

So they may be sowing their own.

You don't feel the

middle class is feeling that way.

I mean, I think the middle class is feeling that way, but not, it has not hit the point of, and there's something I can do about it.

At the moment, it feels like the middle class feels away and there's nothing I can do about it.

But you get pushed much like the, I mean, this is a bit much like

the reason we have the

programs from the New Deal that the Republican Party wants to destroy so badly is because things got so bad that people were like we either have to change or we're going to have a revolution on our hands and i think we're going to we're now at a place where the people in charge are like we don't want to change and we don't care and then you end up with um and then you end up with a revolution i'm not advocating a revolution because that's not good for families in general and i have one it's really good for like um i don't know young guys who like to shoot people which i'm not in favor of and so uh i'm not advocating that but i'm saying if you if you really make people feel like they cannot support themselves because you're eagerly throwing them out of work and making it impossible for them to pay their bills or feed their families, then it causes trouble.

It's trouble with a capital T, and that rhymes with P, and that stands for pool, pools of blood, Daniel, that will run down the streets.

So, the, in this specific

dark, thanks for bringing this up, Stu.

This is supposed to be a fun podcast.

That's why we're doing it up top.

We're eating our broccoli now, so we can have dessert later.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay,

now that we got the vegetables out of the way we're gonna go move on to the next uh our next segment guys recently i don't know if you pay attention to this sort of thing but there was a thing called the emmys

and at least one of the one of us watched the emmys ceremony can you guess which one it was dan dan watched i mean elliot probably can because it wasn't him i'm assuming from the way he looks uh so

what about

you know you just had an expression on your face like well it wasn't me so no i assumed it was dan yeah so yeah but you know yeah I'm like, I don't see Stuart really watching it.

I didn't, I know, I didn't.

I mean, Stuart,

he likes award shows, like we're playing

here, but instead of a werewolf, you do watch the Emmys.

As I like award shows for movies because I like having an excuse to get excited and talk about movies.

In general, I like award shows because I love glitz and glamour, baby.

Uh, but I did not catch the Emmys.

But let's talk about some of the winning programs.

And I think we're going to play a sub-game that I think will probably carry through most of today's mini-episode, which is, has Elliot seen this show?

I think without Elliot answering yet, Dan is going to have to chime in on all these.

I have an advantage on that.

And for me, it's more of a DOM game than a sub-game because I know the answers already.

So, Dan, I think

you're playing this solo today.

What?

Dan.

Solo.

That was when Dan signed on to that Star Freighter.

Yeah, that Star Freedom's name.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He was fighting the Zerg.

Okay.

So

one of the big winners, The Pit, won things like Best Drama, Best Actor, I think maybe Best Writing.

Best Writing for Dale Keown, the creator of The Pit.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

That was the thing.

I watched The Pilot and no fucking dude with crazy blade fingers showed up.

So I was like, fuck this.

Where's the little kid with the monster with the long hair?

What's going on?

Did any of you guys see the joke?

That's for 90s comics, kids.

Dan's not going to get that reference to Dale Keown's the Pit.

First off, Dan, has Elliot seen the pit?

I'm going to say Elliot has not seen the pit, definitively.

Judges, has Elliot seen the pit?

Bing Bing, Elliot has not seen the pit, Dan.

Okay, yeah.

I've only seen the, I only saw maybe 20 minutes of the first episode.

Dan, have you seen that?

Weirdly, I have seen all of the pit.

I say this as a person who

does not like medical shows.

The closest to a medical show I've watched in the past is House, which is actually a mystery show.

Yeah, that's a good idea.

So not really a medical show.

A medical mystery show.

But

our friend Linda Holmes was so positive about the pit, I wanted to check the pit out.

I started watching the pit.

And my fear was that as someone who

has a lot of medical anxiety,

that

the show would freak me out, whereas instead it comforted me.

It's kind of competency porn.

Like a lot of bad things happen, but it's a bunch of doctors who really care, damn it,

and are good at their jobs.

And so that

it was, you know, it was a lot of fun.

There's going to be a show about doctors screwing up constantly and leaving their keys inside people's kidneys and stuff like that.

You know, it's old-fashioned melodrama with a bunch of really good doctors who are good at their jobs.

Yeah.

Charlene and I started watching it, and I think we were watching it while eating something, and we're like, you know what?

This is not for us.

Yeah, we, both of us have issues.

I have issues in hospitals and she has issues in hospitals.

And for some reason, can't get those issues out of those hospitals.

Yeah, they're valuable.

Yeah, yeah.

Spider-Man number one?

Your action comics number one is at a hospital right now.

My Death of Superman foil cover that I have.

Tail Keels the Pit, number one.

Why is it at the hospital?

Thank you.

Because it's called the Pit.

So, Dan, would you say that this is a show that is worth the accolades?

Is it worth the hype?

I think it's great.

It's a very old-fashioned show in a lot of ways,

combined with sort of a newer.

New-fashioned morals.

They're all nude.

It's a nude hospital.

Wow.

You know, it clearly has a lot of

ER in its DNA to the degree that there was a lawsuit about it.

Well, because it was originally developed as an ER review or spin-off.

But it also is kind of a more modern show where like...

It's each each hour of the show is one hour in the same day, so it builds on itself that way.

But yeah, it's a very well-done version.

Are there 24 episodes?

Well, a whole shift is thankfully not 24 hours.

You don't usually want a doctor who's been awake for 24 hours.

It happens, though.

It does happen.

It does happen.

I will say, I haven't seen it.

I'm actually kind of more interested in watching it because everyone's like, it's old-fashioned.

It's a throwback.

I've been seeing for years now in pitches of shows that I've been pitching that there's a hunger for old-fashioned, more traditional types of television shows, that we've kind of gone as far as we need to at the moment in deconstructing what a television show is and making it more about, I don't know, artsy moments or whatever.

I love artsy moments, but like sometimes you just want to sit down and watch a show that tells you a story and you're like, oh, what a story.

Very satisfying.

Well, this is very artfully done, but it is.

But it's not like, it's not like, oh, now I've got to track the clues of this winding mystery or I've got to figure out what the secrets are.

And I think there's, I think it does not surprise me that in a world of instability, where, again, we're on probably the edge of a revolution someday, that people would hunger for something that is a traditional form of storytelling.

So, speaking of more,

let's say, aggressive storytelling,

the next couple of shows kind of touch on that.

Another big winner was The Studio, which won for Best Comedy, Writing, Directing, Acting for Mr.

Seth Rogan.

Have you guys, has Elliot watched The Studio?

Dan, have I watched The Studio?

I'm going to say that there is a chance that Elliot has seen like an episode of the studio, but I'm going to say no.

Judges,

Elliot has seen three episodes of the studio.

Wow, wow.

And it was at that point that I decided I've seen what this show can do.

Maybe I'll come back to it sometime.

Yeah.

You guys are both, you guys both, I would say, have strong opinions about comedy.

What do you feel?

I don't think so.

I don't have a book about it coming out this November from the University of Chicago Press, Joke Farming, Comedy and Other Nonsense.

Make it bigger.

Repeat it throughout the episode.

Bold.

This November.

Joke Farming by Elliot Kalen.

I think I may have seen three episodes.

Maybe I've actually seen less of the studio.

I might have just seen two.

I definitely saw the episode.

I think I saw up to the episode with Ron Howards.

That's either the third or fourth episode.

And I saw the Warner episode that everyone was talking about for a while.

Yeah.

You know, the problem with I am into the studio.

I would watch more of the studio.

The problem with me watching the studio is Audrey finds it so stressful.

It's built on such,

it's not awkward comedy, but it's comedy where you know everything's going to go wrong.

There's never, you're never wondering if Seth Rogan's going to, what's he going to do to save the day?

Yeah.

You know, he's just going to make it worse.

How's he going to fuck it up?

And she finds it very stressful.

And I'm like, you know, I could watch the studio alone.

She's like, no, I'll watch it.

The curse of the married man.

You can't watch the thing you want.

There's the eternal promise that you'll watch it, but never.

Yeah, I think I'm kind of the same way.

Like it is a little, at least for me, it's a little more like form over function.

And I just,

as much as I can watch it and be like, oh, this is clever, I don't, I don't particularly enjoy it.

I don't mean I think it's beautifully done.

I think it's funny.

Well, it looks great.

And there's stuff there's stuff in it that's that I do find it funny.

Like there's stuff in it that's funny.

Yeah.

But like I never find it as funny as I find Seinfeld, which I also have access to.

So I usually end up watching Seinfeld.

I feel like the structure of

my saying that the TV show Seinfeld is funny is in no way an endorsement of Seinfeld's man's views on the Palestinian situation.

So don't write me letters about that.

I'm opposed to him on his views of what Israel should be doing.

But Seinfeld, the sitcom, I still find hilarious.

Albite, often racist, but still hilarious.

Yeah.

I was just saying that I think that the studio is a thing where I like I appreciate how well made it is and how like I appreciate the structure and everything, but I don't have much of a, I don't feel very connected to it.

I don't really view them as like characters.

Well, I think that's the issue for me is I feel like Seth Rogan does a really, I think his comedy performance is really, is really funny, but that character, he doesn't like, I don't, maybe I need to watch more of it to find it, but I don't watch it and be like, oh, yeah, I love this character.

I want to see more of him.

Instead, I'm constantly like.

dude, like just what come on.

I watch him thinking just even more Catherine Hahn, please, and more outfits.

Catherine Hahn is really funny in it.

Yeah.

And

the Catherines in it are great.

It's got two of the best Catherines.

And especially because he's also on Platonic right now, which is not Emmy related.

But I think he at least is playing like a distinct character in that that feels like a human being with

a complete life,

which he's certainly capable of.

Like he's incredibly capable of it.

But he's playing more of a comic type in this show than he is playing a full character.

Yeah.

Okay.

So another.

But again, just I'm happy to see, but I'm happy to see Best Comedy go to a show with jokes in it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would argue I am not,

though I don't love it,

I'm like, okay, cool.

Yeah, I guess it's worth at least some of the hype.

Yeah, yeah, I'll say that.

Yeah.

Another show that is very structure focused that won a bunch of awards is Adolescence.

Dan, has Elliot seen Adolescence?

It's only four episodes.

Yeah, but I'm going to say, no, he has not seen Adolescence.

Ding, ding.

You're right, Dan.

I have not seen adolescence.

Everyone tells me it's really good.

I'll see it eventually, I guess.

I don't know.

It's not what I need in my life right now.

Yeah.

You mentioned Wanners.

The show's got some Wanners.

It's got lots of Wanners.

Is it an all-wonners?

I think it is an all woners.

That's what I've heard.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I've only seen part of the first episode.

I got like 10 minutes in, and then I was like, again, I'm like.

I don't know.

Maybe Audrey will want to see this.

It's like, you know, it's got British people in it.

She likes that.

Yeah.

Like, is there a mystery?

I've never watched it.

If there's a mystery, it certainly isn't cozy.

I, I do, I do feel like Charlene and I have watched it, and by the end of the fourth episode, Charlene's like, why did we watch this?

Just made you sad.

Yeah, I mean, well, it's kind of sad, and I feel like it doesn't necessarily like part of part of the strength of it.

And I don't, it doesn't feel like it's, it doesn't feel like resolved in any way.

Yeah, they gotta leave it up for season two.

Yeah, yeah, return, yeah, adulthood, I guess.

Yeah,

But so I guess of the people who have, I've seen all of it, I would say, yeah.

I mean, it's certainly like if the idea of watching something that is structurally very

interesting and complicated and it deals with some fairly heavy issues facing young people in our like modern world.

Yeah, I would say it's, it's, it's worth watching.

It's tough.

I mean, I've heard it's all about the pressures that young people are feeling.

And I feel like that's, as a parent, I can relate to it.

My son feels such pressure to catch them all.

People say he's got to catch them all.

And it's impossible to catch them all.

You know, you just can't.

In this modern world, you can't.

No, because that other team is always out trying to catch them.

And those guys are mean, you know?

Team Rocket?

Team Rocket.

Yeah, but they're like really hot.

But still it makes it harder to catch them all.

Yeah, I guess that's distracting.

Okay, so the next couple of shows we're going to talk about mainly won like maybe one award here or there, but I still think they're worth mentioning.

We got The penguin which won uh kristen milatti won for uh actress uh she's lovely amazing dan has elliot seen the penguin i'm gonna say uh almost with definite certainty that elliot has not seen the penguin You're right, Dan.

I have not seen the penguin.

I am on a, I think, Batman-related media moratorium.

Yeah.

Personally, I heard that the Batman was good, but I kind of Batman out for the moment.

I don't need more Batman right now.

I figured that was

Colin Farrell, Colin Farrell doing his like.

I love Colin Farrell.

I love Christy Milatti, but I don't know.

Is Batman in it or no?

He's not.

No.

Okay.

Maybe I'll watch it.

If Batman's not, again, maybe I'll watch it if I have any time in my life to watch it.

I figured that was your policy.

And like for me, the thing about the Penguin was like, well.

I'm Batman out on the one hand.

On the other hand, do I need to see like a gritty crime drama, but except it's in like Batman world if we don't see Batman?

Like, I was like, I don't know.

But then I kept hearing how good Colin Farrell was in it, how good everyone was in it.

And I watched it.

And sure enough, they are.

And Kristen

is.

When you put incredibly talented performers into your project, they will be really, you got to work hard to make them bad in it.

They'll be really good in it.

But I think that's the thing is it's like.

There's a limit, and maybe this is me being a snob, maybe this being Martin Scorsese or Francis Rococo or whatever.

I love comics.

I love superheroes.

I feel like there's a limit to the seriousness of the issues of the world that can be addressed

or the aspects of the human condition that can be addressed in a gritty crime drama about the penguin.

And maybe I'm wrong about this.

Maybe, does he use umbrellas in it or no?

No, I don't remember any umbrella stuff.

But I feel like there's a, if I want to see a crime thing.

He drive a purple car, though.

Yeah.

I mean, but real people do that sometimes.

Like, Prince did that.

He was a crime boss, right?

I think these, i think there's a batman adjacent there's a certain there's certain things that i get out of superhero stuff that i don't get elsewhere but gritty crime i can get elsewhere i want to say

one funny thing i find about the character of the penguin is like he is either like the dapperst little man you ever did see or a gross brute of a man.

Yeah.

Like there's like two ways you can go with the penguin and they're like fundamentally like on opposite ends.

I mean,

which is what's kind of amazing about Danny DeVito in Batman Returns.

He's kind of both.

He's kind of both, but he's kind of both.

But it's like, he can't do it where he is, has a little bit of style, and he's a little bit monstrous.

He's got to be extreme, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just think it's funny that they created this character and he's like, he's like, I don't know, Heisenberg Uncertainty, like particle, the big,

you have the pitch meeting where they're like, okay, he's the grossest little monster, but he's also the dapperist little gentleman.

He wears a tuxedo and tails all the time, but also he eats people's faces and he lives in the sewer.

I mean, now you've talked to me into wanting to watch it, if that's what happens in it.

But I think there's a,

and I don't want to, anyone who likes the Penguin the TV show, this is not me casting, throwing shade at you.

That's okay.

It is not what I'm looking for in my life at this moment.

Yeah.

I liked it quite a bit.

I think there's moments that like it could have been trimmed a little bit, but I feel like there's some really like cool stuff in there.

And I feel like for like a pulp story, I think it was, I think it, it came at a time where I was like, I needed something that was like just gritty enough, but mainly just like a fun pulp story to watch.

I mean, maybe, maybe I would enjoy it if I watched.

Right now, I'm at a point in my life where I do not know what I am looking for particularly.

And I'm like, literally, I was on looking at Tubi at what they have, and they have all of Babylon 5 on there.

And I'm like, I've never watched Babylon 5.

Is this the period in my life where I really get into Babylon 5?

Maybe I'll start joining conventions.

He won't tell us he's watching it, but there will be signs of him making Babylonia.

I was going to say, I'll be making references to da-da-da, but I don't know even any of the characters in Babylon 5.

I can't even fake a reference.

So maybe these are shows that I don't know that I want right now.

And I would realize if I started watching them, I don't know.

Okay, another show that won for writing was Andor.

Dan, has Elliot seen Andor?

I'm going to say no, because I believe he is also Star Wars out.

Dan, I watched much of the first season of Andor.

Okay.

Yeah.

And I think I'll probably also watch it again at some point.

Yeah.

I watched a couple episodes of the first season.

I liked it.

I just did not feel like I was in a place to devote the time to it.

But I did kind of have a similar attitude where I'm like, I don't know.

Do I need a gritty Star Wars?

Like,

Dan, have you watched Andor?

I watched all of the first season of Andor, and I am like,

I have been for months, like

three

episodes away from finishing it.

My problem with it was just like, yeah, I get it.

You know, I get where this is.

I mean, I've literally seen where this is going and something about

the second

series where they did this thing where they would do like paired episodes and then a time jump and then paired episodes and then a time jump.

Because they didn't want to spend years and years continuing the series, I think.

Yeah, well, they knew they wouldn't have that time.

Like, I think Disney made it clear to them that they weren't going to have that time.

I think that that's good in certain ways because I don't want to be stuck with something for more time than maybe it needs.

But I also found that it didn't have the sort of momentum that I wanted it to.

Like every time it felt like it was building up ahead of steam, it was like, and now we're in the future.

And I'm like, okay.

But it's a very well-done show.

It's like, you know, I felt like I was Star Wars out and it pulled me back in.

It is a well-made show.

I mean, it's another way.

I feel like it's similar to what I was talking about with Penguin Penguin, where I was like, it's a really well-made show.

It's really well done.

But it's like, I have other sources for this type of story that are not Star Wars.

I mean, maybe, again, this is me being a snob, but like anyone who has watched as much Eastern European cinema as I have, you see a lot of stories about the compromises you have to make when you live under an authoritarian system.

And I'm like,

I'd rather get it that way, where it feels like it's coming from the people who have lived it rather than in this kind of Star Wars world.

But we're all going to be living in that world pretty soon, you know?

Yeah.

So I'm I'm going to, we have a couple more Emmy winners I just want to mention real quick.

Right up top, I want to give an extra shout out to Jeff Hiller winning for Somebody Somewhere.

He gives a lovely performance.

He's always a great performer.

And

did you guys catch any of Somebody Somewhere?

I don't even know what that is.

I watched all of it.

I think it was like Audrey's favorite thing in the world, and I also enjoyed it quite a bit, although maybe not as much.

And, you know, he was a mainstay of the UCB theater.

I would see him improvising all the time.

It was good to see him successful.

Yep.

Also,

two other shows that won a fair amount of acting awards.

We have Hacks and Severance.

Has Elliott seen Hacks or Severance, Dan?

I'm going to say

he has not seen Hacks and maybe saw an episode of of Severance.

I have seen a handful of episodes of both of those series, Dan.

Okay, yeah.

Well, Elliot wanted to learn what it's like to be a comedy writer, so he watched Hacks.

And then

he wanted to learn what it's like to work in an office, so he watched Severance.

I assume accurate.

I've seen none of Hacks and all of Severance.

Oh, really?

I've watched all of both, partly because I love Gene Smart and I'll watch Gene Smart in almost anything.

And I think there's Severance.

And she's all over Severance.

She's crazy all over Severance.

Those are both good shows.

I mean, they're not, those are both good shows.

Like with Hacks, I think I just didn't keep up with it because it was hard for me to watch it being like, well, nitpicky about comedy and about the, not necessarily about the jokes on the show, but about just like that world.

Well, yeah.

Certainly as soon as she gets a late night show, I'm like, well, I guess I can't text with my friends about this.

And on Severance, there's the issue of like, I kept thinking, if this was a movie and it was two hours long, I think I would love this.

But to know that I'm going to spend 10 to 20 to who knows how many hours in this world, again, it was just like, I don't need this right now.

Like, this is not, this is not what I want to do.

I don't want to spend a lot of time in that world right now.

But if it was a movie, I think I would have loved it.

You know,

I think I'm with you.

To me, it's a beautiful show, and I think the performances are really interesting.

They're great in it.

They do a great, really good job making it.

Yeah.

There's a thing about the storytelling that feels like it's

giving me vibes of like Lost and other puzzle box shows that I just don't have the fucking patience for anymore.

Like give if at least in a movie, I'm like, I got two hours.

I'll enjoy this shit, then I'm done.

Yeah.

I'll watch it.

If they don't give me answers, I'll at least have a story, maybe.

But with TV, it's just spending a lot of time in that office.

Like, I don't want to spend a lot of time in that office.

Again, and all things, like, that may sound negative, but it really is.

I'm like, this is a show that I feel like is just kind of not for me.

I am glad it exists.

And if people get some enjoyment or some deeper meaning out of it, hey, that's awesome.

Enjoy that show.

It's a wonderful thing to feel like you live in an entertainment ecosystem where there are things for you and there are things for other people.

And everyone's got stuff they can enjoy and where you can feel safe saying like, this is not bad, but it's not what I want to watch, you know?

Yeah.

Without feeling, I feel like maybe just because people are.

tired of, I don't know, the need to have to keep up on stuff.

I feel like, at least in my life, I don't spend very very much time online, so maybe that's for the reason.

I feel like there's less of a sense of like, if you're not watching this thing, then you're insulting me for liking this thing.

And it's nice to live in a world where like different people have different things that they like, and we don't all have to watch the same thing.

You know, we're going to be going back into that world.

We'll all be watching the, you know, the same.

conservative show that airs 24 hours a day on every single network that just tells us uh you know um to say our prayers and and thank the god emperor for his for his you know divine protection.

But it's nice until we live there to be like, oh yeah, there are all these different shows.

They're all well-made.

I don't have to like all of them.

But not because they're bad, but because they're just not my taste.

And that's fine.

Yep.

Ambasser Lest Nash.

Welcome to the afterlife.

Oh, snap.

I have before me the record of all your worldly achievements.

The voice of Pampovion Archer.

I must say we're all big fans of yours up here.

Great.

Swing open those pearly gates, you big-winged son of a bitch.

That's a fact.

It says here that you've never hosted your own podcast.

I did some other cool stuff, but no, I never got around to making a podcast.

You are hereby sentenced to relive your entire life.

Only this time, host a damn podcast.

Okay.

That's why we should do an Archer Rewatch podcast.

We should call it Rephrasing.

And we could even do it with MaximumFun.org.

Let's just do the podcast for normal reasons.

Okay, Grandma.

The wizards answer eight by eight.

The cornclaves call to demonstrate their arcane gift, their single spell.

They number 64

until

a conflagration

63

and 62 they soon shall be, as one by one the wizards die,

till one remains to reign on high.

Join us for Taz Royale, an oops all-wizards battle royale season of the adventure zone every other Thursday on maximumfun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

And this podcast is brought to you in part by Factor.

Fall is kind of like a reset season, you know, like

all the travel and whatnot of the summer is ending.

If you got kids, you got back back to school you got to worry about, you've got busier routines.

I know that for whatever reason, October is the busiest month on the calendar for me.

And with shorter days, finding time to cook can be tough.

So why not get some of Factor's chef-prepped meals?

They're designed to make it easy to stay on track and enjoy something comforting and delicious, no matter how hectic your season gets.

You can choose from a wider selection of weekly meal options than ever before, including premium seafood choices like salmon and shrimp at no extra cost you could savor some global flavors for the first time try some Asian inspired meals with bold flavors influenced by China Thailand and more I know that I have enjoyed these factor meals in the past even though I am as I've said before a man who really likes to cook sometimes you're tired Sometimes you just don't want to.

You just don't want to.

That's where Factor comes in, because they've got delicious meals that are ready in minutes.

So why not eat smart at factormeals.com slash flop50off and use code flop50off to get 50% off your first box plus free breakfast for one year.

That's code flop50off at factormeals.com for 50% off your first box plus free breakfast for one year.

Get delicious.

ready to eat meals delivered with factor offer only valid for new factor customers with code and qualifying auto renewing subscription purchase okay wait before we get back to talking about tv i just want to tell people there's two ways to get the flop house in a totally different way than this podcast if you're in chicago on sunday november 16th we are performing at sleeping village our seven o'clock show is sold out but don't worry there's a late show that we added go to flophousepodcast.com slash events and you can buy tickets to that show if you are in chicago it is a night of jimbelushi movies so if you come to late show you'll hear us talk about canine the movie where Belushi is a cop with a dog.

Can you believe it?

If you can't get to Chicago.

I can't.

If you can't get to Chicago, then I pity you.

It's a great city.

We're going to have a great time there, but you can still watch the Flop House on your computer.

That's right.

Flop TV is back.

The first Saturday of every month at 9 p.m.

Eastern, 6 p.m.

Pacific.

We'll be doing our one-hour on-screen live broadcast of a flop house type show that we do.

It's got videos, it's got presentations, it's got animations, it's got us talking about movies.

It's the first Saturday of every month.

Go to theflophouse.simpletics.com for tickets.

If you can't make it when the show is airing live, don't worry.

Your ticket gets you access to the recording of the show.

Those recordings will be available through the end of February because this is running from September through February.

Six episodes.

Get a season pass.

It's six episodes with a cost of five.

Just go to theflophouse.simpletics.com.

Stuart, let's get back to talking tube with Two Boy tonight.

Oh, okay.

Let's go.

Okay, so welcome back to Two Boy boy talking tube to two dudes today

that's right we'll find out so uh we are on the back half and so we are kind of doing a bit of a lightning round here the first part is called top of the charts to you where we talk about some of the most popular shows currently on streaming platforms uh if you've seen it uh again dan you're gonna have to weigh in if elliot has seen this show you've not your coverage has not been great so far i think it's been pretty good it's pretty i've gotten

listeners right

now

Okay, so one of the number one shows from Netflix is a streaming show called Black Rabbit, starring Jason Bateman and Jude Law.

This is a new show, so there's a chance that even Dan hasn't seen this one.

Dan, have you seen any of this show?

I've not seen it, and there's absolutely no chance that Elliot has seen any of it.

What I saw of it was I saw that there was a New York Times article about it, and there was that where they do that little bit of video that runs ad nauseum.

I don't really read the Times much, but I check the headlines.

And so I've seen that little bit of footage of Jude Law and Jason Bateman clowning around New York.

You know, yes.

So I've, I watched the pilot of it.

And because I'm a sucker for anything that is set in New York, I mean, there's a fucking scene in the pilot where they're eating at Rollin' Roaster.

And I'm like, oh yeah.

But it is a show about a New York restaurateur that I feel does not capture that feeling very well.

And Jason Bateman, for all his character being like a dirtbag, it again doesn't feel 100% real.

Like a lot of things feel kind of false about this show.

So I think it's got like, I can't, I may watch more of it, but so far, I think it's kind of a stinker.

Also, like the idea of Jude Law being a successful restaurateur who, at least from what I can tell in the show,

does not have any experience working in restaurants.

And his restaurant is mainly just like a cool hangout place.

That doesn't feel right to me.

There's that scene.

I did see that scene where someone orders Faux Gras and he goes, never heard of it, which seems strange for a successful restaurateur that he's never even heard of.

Very strange.

Also,

can you get me a fork?

What's that?

Seems like if you were in the restaurant business, you know what a fork was.

Yeah.

And Judelaw looks like a man who knows his way around, a fork and foie grasp.

This is a guy who eats, people.

He is not dead.

So another show on the list is Task.

This is from the mayor of East Town Creator.

So it's in that heavy Pennsylvania accent zone.

Dan, has Elliot seen any of Task?

No, Elliot has not seen any of Task.

I have not even heard about Task.

You're right.

It's got Mark Ruffalo in it.

That's all about Mark.

It's about some sort of task force.

The guy is like a ruffled buffalo, yeah.

Uh-huh.

It's,

yeah, I started watching it.

I like it so far.

So there's Black Rabbits and there's Task, and you combine them to get Task Rabbit.

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Let's do a cross-dollar.

Yeah, I mean, I like it so far.

It's gritty.

I love watching actors go fucking ham on a Pennsylvania accent, which is like, as far as regional accents go, is like not that noticeable.

But like, apparently they're like, let's make a meal out of this fucking.

And Pennsylvania ham is delicious so

sure ham um pan okay

from uh and task is from uh is on hbo uh uh from amazon we have the summer i turned pretty dan has elliot seen the summer i turned pretty

you're right dan i've not watched the summer i turned pretty I feel like Charlene and I tried to watch a couple episodes because we're suckers for that kind of garbage.

But

it wasn't our speed.

But it is also a show that has like three or four seasons.

So I'm like, is the summer still fucking going on?

Like, is she still turning pretty?

You know, and the summer, man.

Yeah.

Looks like

how MASH lasted longer than the war, you know?

So, yeah.

Another, another hot show, Alien Earth.

Dan, has Elliot seen any of Alien Earth?

I'm going to say, no, Elliot has not seen any Alien Earth.

I've seen that wrong, Dan.

I've seen the first two episodes of Ali Earth.

Oh, wow.

More Alien Earth than I have.

I've seen one episode of Alien Earth.

I think I've seen like four or five.

Elliot, I absolutely want to hear your thoughts on Alien Earth.

I mean,

I guess I kind of like highlights.

I think I wish the alien looked less man in a suity.

It feels like the one place where the budget is falling down a little bit is the alien sometimes.

But I mean, the alien is always a man in a suit.

But I love all the weird other aliens.

These extra weird.

I like that gross cat dragging itself around with that eye alien in it.

The eyeball alien is king there.

I also, I got to say,

I didn't know if Timothy Oliphant could pull off playing Kirsch the weird.

No, no, he's doing great.

He's doing great.

He's killing it because I think he manages to mix.

It's like a perfect midpoint between his sleaze ball characters and

his stoic cowboy characters.

Yes, I agree.

I agree.

He comes off, it's such a strange feeling performance, but on purpose.

And I think he does it really well.

But what I've seen of it,

I think I'm like, it's one of those shows where I want to see more of it, but I don't find myself excited to like put it on, you know, necessarily.

But I think part of it might be that it feels like Noah Holly, and this is what he, he does this very well with other stuff too.

I mean, I've liked his previous shows, is it's like, I'm going to do an alien show.

I'm really more interested in this other thing, but I'll put enough alien in it so I can call it an alien show.

You know, he's really more interested, I think, in the idea of like, corporations and trying to extend life in artificial ways and the consequences of that.

And he's like, but I guess I'll throw an alien in there too.

So I don't know, but

I'm interested in it, you know?

I also, I think it's, I don't know why, like, I both appreciate the idea that like the episodes all end with like a 90s like hard rock song, but I'm also like, this feels weird and alien.

Like all of a sudden I'm like.

Hearing fucking Billy Corgan say the world's a vampire or some shit or like somebody starts blasting Dragula.

Well, it's a little bit like in

this first Star Trek remake movie where he's listening to sabotage, right, while he's driving.

And it's like, yeah, I guess 200 years in the future, this is still the sound of Young Rebellion is the Beastie Boys?

Yeah, sure.

Yeah,

I guess so.

I mean, like, that I like just as like a

joke, I assume, on William Shatner's pronunciation of sabotage.

Maybe.

I feel like that's a pretty, that's a pretty, that's a pretty deep-end joke.

Yeah, but

yeah.

No one,

certainly no sci-fi nerd would put a deep-end joke in something.

You're right, you're right.

But yeah, Dan, what do you think about Alien Earth of the one episode you've seen?

It was fine.

I haven't seen

more, so that says something about it.

I wasn't like, I have to immediately return to this, and perhaps now I'll never see anymore.

That's possible.

Yeah.

So

in addition to some of those hot shows that are top of the charts, what are you guys watching these days, either with your family, on your own?

Are you watching anything anything on the small screen

uh uh my wife and i have been watching we've been slowly going through the second season of poker face you know yeah um that's a fun show um

other than that

the only thing i've been watching that really counts as a tv show is uh the tv show version of the trip italy after i finished watching the tv version of the trip

um i have the issue where like i don't get a lot of time to sit down and watch tv with my family and the time the the little bit of as everyone knows who listens the little bit of time I do get to watch stuff is when I'm doing the dishes.

Otherwise, I don't really have time to watch things.

And I'd much rather watch a part of a movie.

Like, I just always rather watch a movie than a TV show.

If I'm by myself, I'm either watching a movie or I'm like painting models or I'm traveling the lands between an Elden Ring.

Yeah.

And I feel like I haven't found a show in a long time that hit me the way that like

that like the best of the like prestige early HBO shows, like the Sopranos or like Deadwood or stuff like that where I was like oh man I got every week I gotta watch it or like when Mad Man was on I was always like I gotta watch it but I haven't found a show like that in a long time and I think that has says more about me and where I am in life than about television because there's certainly a lot of great shows that are on but it's like yeah if I'm like uh seeing I was thinking about how Dan recommended the Robert Altman Buffalo Bill movie recently and I was like I want to watch those Robert Altman movies that I haven't seen before that are on criterion collection right now And I was much more excited about the prospect of watching like come back to the five and dime Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean, than I was about watching any of the shows that are on right now.

I think, again, it says more about me than it does about the shows, you know.

Yeah, I

have found less TV exciting lately.

And mostly it's because I just want something fun.

And that's always in.

a lower supply than it seems like it should be.

Like, it feels like that should be,

we, when we were young, TV was where you went for dumb fun and the movies were where you went for like serious stuff.

And it's totally flipped now, where the movies that they make are like superhero movies and horror movies and like they don't make a lot of, oh, I guess movies are dumb fun like weapons.

Yeah.

Well, that like serious movies don't get as much.

I feel like there's a smaller percentage.

They don't get as much wide release.

You know, serious movies are still being made.

But like TV is suddenly like, well, this is the new novel.

Like we don't go to TV for dumb.

Adult dramas are TV now.

Yes.

Like, unless you're going to, like, you can still go to the networks and watch, you know, like Tracker or something like that.

Yeah.

I'm trying, like, mostly when I'm alone, too.

I would rather watch.

Yeah, we're going to talk about.

I'd rather watch.

I mean, we haven't.

I can't believe it took us this long into Two Boy Talking Tube to Two Dudes Tonight to bring up fucking Tracker.

He tracks people.

These dudes.

The Adventures of Coulter Shaw.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Chet Tracker.

No, but I will watch movies alone.

And then,

you know, Audrey will be more keen on watching television, although it's mostly her British mysteries.

Like if we're watching something together,

we've, I don't know, we're just now finishing the last season of Shrinking.

We're watching Peacemaker

and we're going through

not a

sort of a compromise position, not a British mystery, but sort of elementary

watching all of the old episodes of that CBS show,

which I never watched at the time.

I do love hearing stories about from like James Gunn's perspective, where they're like, yeah, we really wanted to time the release of Peacemaker Season 2 along with the digital streaming release of the Superman movie.

And I'm like, the idea of being like, yeah, so a person is like.

oh, I saw this Superman movie in the theater.

It's so cool.

What's the next DC thing to watch?

Oh, the show where John Cena has an orgy in his house with a bald eagle.

Like,

I think it's great.

I just think, and like Michael Rose.

I mean, the bald

There, it's not really part of the order.

Yeah, Eagle is, yeah, yeah.

It is funny how that's the same way that Sam the Eagle is is technically at the Muppet Theater, but he's not taking part in the shenanigans.

I think it argues like it's,

I feel like Peacemaker might be the funniest comedy on TV right now, which is pretty funny.

But speaking of like lighter things, Charlene and I are always.

Dave Berg's the lighter side of it.

Yeah.

Charlen and I are always looking for kind of lighter material to watch to wind down at the end of the day when our lives are incredibly stressful running too many businesses.

And the two shows we've enjoyed lately, we finished, I'm guessing the second and final season of this Australian sitcom called Fisk about a

lawyer who is, if only,

a lawyer who wears very large suits and she

works in like probate law.

And I don't know, it's very dry And there's not, I guess there's jokes in it.

It's funny.

It's just very strange.

But we enjoy that quite a bit.

And then we like

the we just watched all of the new office spinoff paper.

Okay.

Where's that?

I think it is absolutely fine.

It is exactly like it serves up exactly kind of what you'd expect.

The one note,

the thing that I think elevates it, that gives it a little bit of extra juice juice, is that they realize that one of the,

I don't know if they realize this, but like one of the things about the original office is that like the British office is that Ricky Gervais' character, David Brent, is like a bad dude.

Yes.

Michael Scott is not a bad dude.

He's just dumb.

So they make a couple of the characters in the paper genuinely like kind of bad people.

And one of them is played by Sabrina.

I'm going to fuck this name up.

Sabrina M.

The teenage witch.

Tori.

Sabrina Teenage Witch.

The actress who played the hotel manager in the second season of The White Lotus, the Italian woman.

And she plays a very flamboyant Italian woman who works at a newspaper in Toledo, Ohio, which is very funny to me.

And there's a great performance from comic actor Eric Rahill or Rahill, who was

in, he's collaborated with Tim Robinson and was in that movie Rap World with Connor O'Malley.

And he just has a way of speaking.

He has like a cadence of like burnout Midwesterner that like is so immediately triggering for me.

Like it feels like I'm in a fucking house party back in Fort Wayne listening to some weird dude that was two years above me in high school.

So that's a thumbs up to the

situation you're familiar with.

Stewart says, run, don't walk to the paper.

Yeah.

I feel like I've kept you guys here long enough.

Elliot has a rush on a dinner.

I'm in in a rash Shana dinner.

Dan has to rush a home to the hotel.

Yeah, Daniel

in LA.

And I will say,

I think any negative things I've said about television or shows, take it with a grain of salt.

At this point in my life,

the thing that I am like enraptured by and I can't wait to get, I like have to keep running back to is Italo Calvino's book, The Castle of Cross Destinies.

So that's where I am right now.

So take it just as me being a snob who is into, who's into not that, you know?

So not, there's no way a criticism of television or the shows being made and take it as me uh finding no joy in the things that i used to enjoy because uh life is a bitter place oh i mean there's that too there's that let's not forget uh depression can can keep you from enjoying television shows also i feel like the fact that both of you guys are closer to the world of tv creation than oh your average person

if only i it were true but what i would i would say is that you're at one point closer and now that that distance causes an additional ache.

It's like a phantom limb.

It does.

I lost love.

It's hard to lose that feeling of like envy when you're watching a show that's successful, where it's like, it's like, well, you know, they, yeah, I guess this is good, but like, I could do good stuff too, blah, blah, blah.

And it's a thing that is a very human feeling that we have to push.

And coupled with the fact that it's easy to overlook the fact that your own, maybe your own struggles when working in the business, you forget that those people are probably going through the same fucking fucking shit.

Well, because that's, this is, this is the last thing we say, because we do have to get to our dinners, but there is a, the industry, the entertainment industry only reports success.

It only, in the variety of how we reporter, it only tells you when shows sell or when they're picked up or whatever, or in a movie script sells.

They do not cover this, this pitch failed.

This pitch didn't get picked up.

This pilot didn't, you know, rarely do they talk about failures.

And so it gives you the impression that There's a sea of success that you are standing on the shore of and you just cannot figure out how to jump in, which is a fake value.

And one of the, one of the things that I found very meaningful about the strike was finally writers were talking to each other about how failure is just a regular part of being a professional creative person.

Yeah, there's a sea of things not getting made in an island of success.

Exactly.

And so, uh, and so that's something for us to remember, you know, that everyone who is having a success now has probably failed and will fail again at some point, you know.

So no one's immune to it.

Okay.

Well, thank you so much for spending some time talking to me.

I always love talking to you guys.

Thanks for stepping into the dog house over here.

I'm Stu Dogg.

I guess I'm Dan Dogg.

Yes.

And that's E-Dog.

E-Dog.

I guess this is an interesting framing to suddenly introduce in the last minute for the podcast.

So

this podcast is part of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network.

Go there.

Check out some shows.

They're great.

This show has been produced by Alex Smith, who hopefully cleaned this up and made it sound extra crispy.

And

I'd like to thank my two co-hosts.

My name is Stuart Wellington, and they are Dan McCoy and e-dog Elliot Kalen.

Okay, bow, wow, wow.

See ya.

Maximum Fun, a worker-owned network of artists-owned shows.

Supported directly by you.