The Girlfriends S2/Bonus 2 - The Girlfriends’ Guide to: Tackling Intimate Partner Violence

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Hi, this is the Girlfriend's Guide, where I use expert interviews, real-life experiences, and research to show you how to fight crime and keep your girlfriends safe.

Today, we're heading back to the Pace Women's Justice Center, aka Gale's house, which we visited in season one.

We're going to learn how to tackle domestic violence in our own lives from the people who fight it every single day.

Just a warning: there are stories of domestic abuse and mentions of suicide coming up.

If you need any support or advice, please reach out to our charity partners, knowmore atnomore.org.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and from the teams at Novel and iHeart Podcasts, you're listening to The Girlfriend's Guide, episode 3, dealing with intimate partner violence.

I had met him as a sophomore in high school, so really it was my only relationship.

Everything was wonderful at first.

And then little incidents would happen

and

it escalated to the point of physical violence.

And I was told that these incidents happened because I failed.

I failed as a wife, as a girlfriend, as a mother,

as a daughter.

I failed and therefore it happened.

This is Debbie.

That's not her real name.

We actually met when I was reporting on Gail Katz's murder at the hands of her husband, Bob Bierenbaum.

I wanted to get a better understanding of the abuse that Gail experienced in their marriage.

Like in Gail's case, the abuse Debbie endured grew worse with time.

It started out as her husband being controlling, losing his temper, and then showering her with affection.

That's known as love bombing.

Sometimes all of those things would roll into one, like this one time when he became hell-bent on buying Debbie an expensive gift from overseas for her birthday.

It was turning into such a fuss to buy it that Debbie eventually suggested he just drop it and buy something else, because she didn't actually want it anyway.

This then turned into a raging row, with Debbie just managing to get away despite her husband's attempts to stop her.

She went to stay with a friend, but he wouldn't leave her alone.

It was an onslaught.

It was text messages.

It was phone calls every two seconds, like call ring five times before it goes to voicemail, hang up, call back again, hang up, leaving messages, sending voicemail, sending voice audio through the text.

She couldn't escape her husband at home or out of the house.

And by that time, I just had decided, I can't live like this.

And the only way out was for me to commit suicide.

Debbie then checked into a mental health facility for a week.

And within the first 24 hours of meeting the therapist, they pointed out to me, this isn't you, it's him.

He was calling the hospital.

He was harassing the nurses.

So he became banned from the hospital.

And they literally told him, if you show up here, we'll call security and you'll be arrested.

At one point, Debbie's husband decided to flip the narrative.

He told Debbie's therapist that she was abusive towards their child, an accusation that they are legally bound to escalate into an investigation.

The therapist heard what he said and she said, are you saying that she's not a good mother and that she puts your child in danger?

And he said, well, she's afraid of her.

So they separated us and they had to call their mandated reporters.

He was interviewed, my child was interviewed, and then the investigator came to interview me and he said to me, he happened to be a therapist as well.

And he said, I know what's going on.

I've spoken to your therapist here.

I spoke to them.

I know exactly what's going on here.

It's not you.

I'm actually going to not investigate you.

That therapist then pointed out to my husband at the time and to me and said, Do you hear what you're saying?

You're being abusive.

You're clearly exerting control over her.

You're clearly not even allowing her to answer questions.

But despite everyone acknowledging the emotional abuse Debbie was experiencing, it didn't result in an immediate arrest or a restraining order or even a police investigation.

She was surrounded by resources for victims of domestic abuse, but it felt like she couldn't access them because the abuse was never quote-unquote bad enough.

So when she left the hospital, she felt helpless and confused and without options.

I went back.

So there's some kind of national statistic or it might be even a global statistic that a victim of domestic violence, it takes him up to seven attempts on average to actually extricate yourself from the place.

Everything that happened during this argument that I mentioned that caused me to go to a hospital and have a breakdown, that wasn't rising to the level of a crime.

It was all psychological, emotional, mental abuse.

It was literally the perfect crime.

But for the first time in decades, Debbie had really challenged her husband by going to hospital.

She left and she told people what he'd been doing to her.

When she returned home, his emotional abuse and control worsened and soon it became physical.

The last 24 hours, it was a physical attack with hands around my neck.

And I was told that I needed to leave.

You need to pack your bags and leave the next day.

And I agreed to it because I said, this is great.

This is my way out.

He's asking me to leave.

No, I'm not leaving him.

And I had a sliding glass door behind me.

And I knew this wasn't going to end well.

Prior to that, he had told me he was going to kill me.

I slid the sliding gas door and I went out of it and he went around the desk to chase me.

There was a gate to the backyard there.

I opened the gate and he grabbed me and I held on to that post by two arms and wrapped myself around it as much as I could.

And he put me in a chokehold.

In a desperate attempt to break free, Debbie bit his arm until he let go.

And then I turned around and ran.

I only got about 10, 15 feet where he tackled me.

So I flailed and I screamed and I yelled.

And I had heard once that when you're attacked, that you should just make as much noise and be as big as you can.

So that's what I did.

And he got scared.

So he left.

He went inside.

I didn't have a wallet.

I didn't have my phone.

I didn't have my bag.

I didn't have car keys.

Looking battered and bruised, Debbie decided to make a break for it.

She walked to the supermarket and asked to borrow their phone, and that's where she called her friend to come and get her.

Finally, she was free, and now she had a crime to report against her husband that the police couldn't ignore.

Sadly, what happened to Debbie is far from unique.

So what can we do to stop it?

After the break, we'll hear from Cindy Canisher, the executive director of the Pace Women's Justice Centre, on what people like Debbie, victims of intimate partner violence, can do to break the cycle of abuse.

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I'm Cindy Canisher, the Executive Director of the Pace Women's Justice Center.

The Pace Women's Justice Center in Westchester, New York is close to our hearts here on the Girlfriends.

Gail's sister, Elaine Katz, has been heavily involved in their board and fundraising efforts for many years now.

They even renamed their building Gail's House and every single day they help women just like Gail to access life-saving advice and legal aid.

So Cindy is the perfect person to ask for advice on how to deal with domestic abuse.

And her first tip is a spade's a spade.

You've got to call it what it is.

You know there's not one definition of what domestic violence is, but really at the crux of when we talk about domestic violence and when I think about it, it's about power and control.

It could be as small as, you know, having to

tell your partner where you're going all the time.

And if you don't say, oh, I'm not coming home from work, I'm going out with my friends, or you have to ask permission to do that, right?

Maybe it's just that one little thing at the beginning.

But that's part of control, right?

Because there's that imbalance of power.

So there are so many different ways that that power and control can exist, even if it's not physical, right?

Very, very often it's more than physical abuse going on.

And sometimes even before the physical abuse, it's the psychological and emotional abuse.

And sometimes that's all there is, but that could be even more difficult for someone to deal with, right?

Because

it affects your sense of self and who you are.

Tip two.

Knowledge is power.

So to the extent that you can do so safely, find

a resource in your community to reach out to, even if someone's not ready to leave and you're not sure what you want to do, it's really important

to

know what your options are, right?

So legally, what can you do?

So many victims of domestic violence come to us and they've remained in the relationship for a long time because they were told that if they they left, their children would be taken away from them or their immigration status would be removed or something's been held over them that sort of involves their legal rights.

And it's not true.

And so it's really important to have the knowledge and power that you get from that so that you can make a decision about your options.

I want people to know that there are people out there that care and that will be there to support you and listen to you in whatever path you want to take.

Tip three.

If you suspect someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, offer them consistent support.

It could be a really uncomfortable conversation for someone who's living through abuse to be approached.

It could also be unsafe because oftentimes keeping the secret is what's keeping them safe and if the abuser finds out that someone else knows.

So you have to think about safety issues.

And it could just be saying, you know,

I'm here for you if you ever want to talk to me about anything.

Or I can help you get you numbers or whatever.

And know that

they may be met with, I don't know what you're talking about.

But it's important to say that you're there because at some point.

they'll know when they're ready to reach out that there's somebody there for them.

Just like out of curiosity, does there happen to be a kind of singular website that people can go to and they can find

the service in their postcode?

There's the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, NCADV, which is a national organization that probably has lists of different organizations across the country.

In New York, for example, there's the New York State Coalition Against Domestic Violence.

So they have a list, I know, of every DV organization in New York and where they're located and how to contact them so there are ways to find it.

Women's Aid have a useful resource called the Survivor's Handbook on their website.

We'll put the link in the description of this episode.

It's got loads of specific advice for each circumstance.

But a few things stood out that didn't come up in my chat with Cindy and this one felt important.

The number one tip is before leaving, make a safety plan.

And they had a useful checklist which I'm going to read out.

Number one, find times your partner is away from the house to leave.

Number two, pack all the important documents for yourself and your children.

Things like passports, birth certificates, medical records, that sort of thing.

Three, pack essentials, whatever you can take.

Remember the really important stuff like medication.

And four, have the phone numbers you need to hand.

That's your local domestic abuse service, police domestic violence unit, GP, social worker, children's school, solicitor.

The really important people who are your in case of emergency contacts.

5.

Teach your children how to dial emergency services.

911-999, teach them what to do and how to do it and in what circumstances they might have to make that call.

6.

If you have neighbours you can trust, tell them about your plan and when you want to leave.

Ask them to call the police if there's any signs of violence.

7.

Leave an emergency bag with someone you trust.

That could be the neighbour as well, or it could be a friend or a colleague.

8.

Keep money with you at all times for bus fares, taxis, and if you have a car, make sure that the tank's full of petrol.

9.

Scout out the safest place to go.

They might know that you're at your parents', for example.

So think about various options that could be safe for you.

10.

Along with all of this research and planning, do consider your digital safety.

A lot of abusive partners monitor their spouse's digital footprint, so be careful there.

And once you have left, change your passwords after you leave and add two-factor authentication to anything that supports it.

But really, the best solution to intimate partner violence is if none of this planning were ever necessary for anyone.

And instead, we stopped the violence at its source.

Which brings me to Cindy's fourth tip.

Educate early.

There's a lot of prevention work in schools about what it looks like to be in a healthy relationship, what's not a healthy relationship, you know, hopefully if they can identify it, then they'll be able to not continue on with the relationship at a younger age.

That's amazing.

You guys doing so much.

Yeah, we're like the little engine that could, you know, this,

you know, group of 34 just doing a lot of work and helping as many people as we can.

And, you know, we always keep a picture of Gail in our office.

And, you know, I walk by it and I think this this is why we're here because we don't, to the extent that we can stop it, we don't want that to ever happen again.

And providing all these services up front and support, hopefully, hopefully, is doing that.

And they really do.

They save the lives of people like Gail and Debbie.

After the break, we'll hear how Debbie rebuilt her life with the help of lots of therapy, domestic violence charities, and a little laughter.

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After the assault, Debbie's friend picked her up from the supermarket.

That day, they reported Debbie's husband to the police.

And then he was arrested.

This time around, he committed a crime.

He assaulted me.

He harassed me.

He tried to impede my breathing.

He completely had risen to the level of a crime.

And so the immediate court provided me with an order of protection, the criminal court.

But I did have to go to family court.

Debbie met with a domestic violence charity who provided some free legal support.

And they helped me with an additional order of protection from the family court.

And so he was immediately removed from the home.

But then Debbie had to start doing the hardest bit, unraveling decades of her life and trying to figure out who she was without her husband.

Once he was out, I had three types of counseling.

and I went religiously.

So I had domestic violence counseling.

I had a peer support group with other victims of domestic abuse.

And I had a therapist.

Many people end up in an abusive relationship again because they haven't had the opportunity to really heal.

Debbie started to want to help others like her.

So she got involved in grassroots initiatives and trained to help other victims of domestic violence.

And I volunteered doing that for sexual assault.

And then I trained as a divorce mediator because I wanted to understand the mechanics of the law and how all of that works so that I could speak not just from my experience, but from

a different level.

Debbie now works full-time in the domestic violence space, helping women just like her.

But like so many victims she encounters, she finds herself haunted by the same age-old question.

Why didn't you leave?

And it's a difficult question for anyone to answer.

But

people don't leave

because

abuse

is built on a thread and then interwoven into a relationship.

The longer the relationship, the more threads that are interwoven in there, the stronger the fabric of abuse.

And so

it becomes a tremendous challenge to unravel it.

I think it depends on the person,

the individual.

It depends on the universe.

So what can we as a community, as a world do, right?

I think just be there.

Is it really driving to talk about it?

Not any longer.

On the side, I actually do stand-up comedy for fun.

I've used it as therapy now, and it's actually been great.

actually did a whole bit on.

I was married to a real narcissist, not the kind of narcissist that is all too sexy for myself.

Too sexy for myself, too sexy.

No, not that kind of way.

Like when Hurricane Sandy was going to hit our area, damn, that's all I need-a hurricane.

Or when I had cancer,

I don't know how I'm going to survive this.

I thought chemo was toxic.

Try suffocating narcissism.

It's your truth.

You can say whatever you want about it.

In laughter, there's healing.

And if you can feel that pain, then you can find something to laugh about because you're now on that other side.

It's not as dark as, you know, it got worse and I stayed there.

I can't laugh about it.

But you can talk about your own experience and you feel the horribleness and pain.

You're out of it now.

You can look back at it.

It's definitely a way of healing.

And it also makes it a lot easier to discuss the ugly.

And the fact that I'm able to just say it, not script it, just have a conversation and talk about it, it takes these barriers away.

I love that Debbie has figured out how to laugh about some of those dark moments.

Standing on stage and poking fun at her abuser is not only very brave, but it's also an amazing way to take back control of her story.

It's a philosophy that's at the heart of the girlfriends.

I really do believe that women use laughter and gossip to take control of their narratives and support and protect each other.

It's a way of saying, I'm here, nothing's going to shock me.

In fact, I'll find a way to make you smile in the face of it, even if you don't know how to right now.

As Cindy said, sometimes the best thing you can do for a friend going through a hard thing is to simply, through actions and words, remind them that you'll always be there if they need you.

But every case is different, so if you suspect someone you love is experiencing domestic abuse, do reach out to an expert for advice.

There'll be local resources in your area or please feel free to contact our charity partner, KnowMore.

They offer global support to anyone who is worried about domestic abuse or sexual violence in their own or loved ones' lives.

We'll pop a link in the description.

Until next time, as always,

hold your girlfriends tight.

The Girlfriend's Guide is produced by Novel for iHeartRadio.

For more more from Novel, visit novel.audio.

This episode is produced and hosted by me, Anna Sinfield.

Our assistant producer is Madeline Parr, and we've had some fantastic additional production by Lee Meyer, Leona Hamid, and Zayana Yousaf.

Max O'Brien is our executive producer.

Production management from Cherie Houston and Charlotte Wolfe.

Sound design, mixing and scoring by Daniel Kempson and Nicholas Alexander.

Music supervision by me, Anna Sinfield, and Nicholas Alexander.

Original music composed and performed by Louisa Gerstein and produced by Louisa Gerstein, and you guessed it, Nicholas Alexander.

The series' artwork was designed by Christina Limcool.

Story development by me, Anna Sinfield.

Willard Foxton is creative director.

And our executive producers at iHeart are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Etor.

Special thanks to Ali Cantor, Carrie Lieberman, and Will Pearson at iHeart Podcasts, as well as Carly Frankel and the whole team at WME.

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Kevin and Rachel and Peanut MMs and an eight-hour road trip and Rachel's new favorite audiobook, The Cerulean Empress, Scoundrel's Inferno, and Florian, the reckless yet charming scoundrel from said audiobook, and his pecs glistened in the moonlight, and Kevin feeling weird because of all the talk about pecs, and Rachel handing him peanut MMs to keep him quiet.

Uh, Kevin, I can't hear.

Yellow, we're keeping it PG-13

MMs.

It's more fun together.

This is an iHeart podcast.