Ep 254 | How God Helped ‘Everybody Loves Raymond’ Star Raise Her Kids | The Glenn Beck Podcast

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Hollywood is an industry known for its family values, stable marriages, and overall morality. Oh wait, no, the opposite of that.
But there is at least one couple in the film business that breaks the mold. He's an accomplished actor and filmmaker, and you certainly know her from her iconic roles on shows like The Middle and Everybody Loves Raymond.
To discuss how to build a family, protect life,

manage to stay married while working in Hollywood,

welcome David Hunt and Patricia Heaton.

Patricia, David, how are you? Hi, Glenn. Hey, Glenn.
How are you? I am great. It is good to finally talk to you.
We've been trying to cross paths with you for a very long time. You are so busy, and you rarely, um and i uh i appreciate the time and oh yes sure i don't speak but she does um dave would beg to differ yeah right uh so let me just let me start with the two of you first You are are a miracle in Hollywood or in celebrity.
You've been married for 30 years, I think, right? Is that right? We're now 35th. 35th year.
And you met on stage. You're both actors.
And I've always heard that usually never works out because somebody's always besting the other one and when somebody's career is up somebody else's career is down i don't know if that's true or not but did you no it's a weirder story it's a weirder story i uh i sublet his apartment in new york to be to the guy I was dating. It's a longer story, Glenn.

I'm actually thinking about writing a movie about it.

Joking aside, it's actually an extraordinary story, the way we actually met,

because it was a real sliding doors kind of situation.

We discovered once we started dating that we had been working in restaurants

on Columbus Avenue in the west side of Manhattan.

Thank you. we discovered once we started dating that we had been working in restaurants on Columbus Avenue in the west side of Manhattan two blocks from each other for about two years and who had never met hers was the only restaurant I hadn't been in in that entire strip wow and it wasn't until she made a random phone call which I can tell you that story another time if you want but asking me if I wanted to sublet my apartment that we actually met.

And then how long before you dumped the other boyfriend, Patricia?

Well, and you dumped yours.

So it was kind of simultaneous dumping.

Yeah.

I hate to use that phrase.

That's really unkind.

We broke up.

Yeah.

What did Gwyneth Feltro say?

We consciously uncoupled.

So what is the secret for having a marriage this long?

Because a lot of people think it can't be done.

My wife and I have been married for 25 years.

I mean, it can easily be done. My wife and I have been married for 25 years.
I mean, it can easily be done.

But what is it with you guys?

I thought this morning that it couldn't be done.

Yes.

And if it wasn't for good...

We're here by the skin of our teeth.

The miracle we made this call,

let alone being married.

Well, you know, harrison's wife said in an interview they she said they asked her how did you stay together for so long with everything that went on in your lives and she said we just didn't get divorced and that's kind of the bottom line i think you both have to have that commitment that you took your vows, your vows mean something, and you figure it out. And I think outside of obvious things like any kind of physical abuse or mental or emotional abuse or something like that, things can be worked out.
And you should try to do everything you can especially i think if you have kids um and uh so in a sense of humor a sense of humor i think is critical for us it was it saved us on many an occasion but um you know i have to be honest that it's and patty would agree here that you know there have been times when we've had our struggles like anyone else. How can you possibly be with another person for so long? And if you have any kind of real relationship, there's going to be conflict.
It's inevitable. It's part of human nature.
So the idea that it's going to be perfect is absurd. And I think that's what trips a lot of people up.
Yeah, after the first blush wears off, things get real. In our first year of marriage, we were both bringing a lot of emotional baggage into the situation.
And, you know, there were a couple of moments where some pots and pans were hurled in my direction. Thank God I was an athlete because I managed to pop and weave and I just made a dent to the kitchen cabinet, but not my head.
No, seriously. Well, we're kind of the Bickersons.
We are a little bit of Bickersons, but people seem to get a kick out of it. Somebody suggested recently that the two of us need to do a podcast and Patty rolled her eyes and I thought, well, there you go.
We're off. That's how it all starts.
But there have certainly been ups and downs and career-wise, just to your point, Glenn, about careers, in the most simplest of terms, Patty was nowhere when I met her and I had a career that was booming. I made a lot of bad decisions with my career choices.
But once we started having kids, that was a total game changer. And I, in fact, quit a couple of big jobs in order to be home because I didn't want to be a Hollywood divorce statistic.
And I also wanted to be a father to my sons.

I didn't want to be an absent dad. And that resulted in, gosh, a 10-year hiatus? Longer than that.
Anyway, it was a long time off from my acting career. I basically threw away.
But during that time, we started a production company, and that's a whole other story. But, you know, in the long term, no one is going to care about what movies or Broadway shows I turned down on my deathbed.
No one's going to be even thinking about that. But my relationship with my sons and my wife is eternal, and that's worth more than anything so patricia let me ask you because tanya and i we have the same kind of relationship i'm surprised neither of you mentioned faith because i know god plays such a big role with you but um you know we we you know we've had our moments as well and uh exactly you know i asked my wife my wife who's so stupid asked her for a prenup and uh she said now i'm really not gonna i'm not interested in marrying you and uh i said why she said i'm not negotiating an ending for something that has no ending you're either in it for life or you're not and um and she was she was right and she was right um you have to have that state you have to just realize that there's no going anywhere this is it so right figure it out um right and not give up on it but so david david you took care of the kids and patricia then i assume you went to uh you went to work Patricia, then I assume you went to work.

Do you have, because I went to work, and there are times when work is, I mean, relentless. Do you have any regrets at all about that time period? No, I'll tell you what.
God was really gracious in that. the job so everybody Everybody Loves Raymond started when we had a three-year-old, a one-year-old, and I was pregnant with our third.
And it's a multi-cam show. So you rehearse for four days from like 9.30 to 5, 5 o'clock.
And you can bring the kids to work with you during those times because you're not in front of an audience and they can you know the nanny can bring them whatever and so uh and you you work three weeks on and one week off so you're one week off every month and you have three weeks off for christmas two weeks off for thanksgiving and then you're finished in like april so you've got like three months in the summer so i really wasn't like was away. They were either with me at work or we were all at home together.
And Dave didn't completely stop working. He had jobs here and there.
We had a nanny. So it really worked out that I could be taking the kids to school in the morning, go to work.
They come home at three. I get home at five, you know, kind of thing um and so and there were lots of kids on the set uh writers kids actors kids you know it was a very family friendly show and welcoming to everybody with with family so um i found that i loved taking the kids to school in the morning and bringing them home it was weird i never saw that about myself ever but i found that i i just loved it yeah you know because i loved just being with them talking about songs on the radio or whatever's that on the news that day and and even wonderful yeah and even when the middle came along that's a multi-camera show so it's much longer hours 12 14 hours a day but they were already in middle school and high school so they were kind of at school until five or six o'clock with their activities and things so god really worked it out and you know as far as our relationship goes in our faith i mean it's just kind of baked in you're right we didn't mention faith but um because we were talking about the practical nuts and bolts, but we feel God has had a hand in everything that's happened in our lives, obviously.
In spite of myself, he's been there. We met with a wonderful pastor at Hollywood Presbyterian Church, which is where we got married, called Ralph Osborne, God rest his soul.
and he the wonderful thing about Ralph was he was able to provide us with the

wisdom uh called ralph osborne god rest his soul and he he the wonderful thing about ralph was he was able to provide us with the wisdom and the the benefit of his long experience he'd been married at that point gosh 50 some years and and he said who do you want to be sitting next to in this in the twilight of your life um do you want to be able to look back with a shared history and laugh and bond about something? And have grandkids. And have grandkids.
Or do you want to be alone? And that's obviously a frightening perspective. That really stuck with us.
But also one of the biggest influences in our lives, I think, it's fair to say, would be Tim Keller, who was a wonderful pastor who ran Redeemer Presbyterian in New York for many years until his passing just a year or so ago. We took his marriage series of tapes very seriously, and he sort of mentored us um and he was always there for us you know you'd have a little moment where you think wow we haven't been to church in months and we're exhausted and he said don't worry these are all phases in your life anyway things like that so so as i said in spite of myself um god was gracious enough to keep me on a relatively even keel.
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Default terms at mintmobile.com. I want to get to the movie that came out, and it's called Unexpected.

It's been out, but I found out from you that it is, what is it, National Infertility Awareness Month.

I didn't know that.

You're welcome.

Thank you.

Thank you for that.

So why are you coming out? Why is that important to you? Well, we have a heart for kids, for sure. We have a lot of, well, let me just, can I backtrack just for a second? Sure.
Because the movie is based on a book that we optioned way back in 2004. And the book was essentially about a couple that adopts animals.
And it's kind of an amusing series of anecdotes. And we wrote scripts based on that.
And it never really worked. I turned to the writer after we did a play reading at our house in L.A.
After this particular reading, it sort of died to death. And I said, it needs a different engine.
How about we make the couple childless that they can't have kids and they go on a journey for adoption. That's why they're getting all these animals.
Animals are a substitute for the children. He said, oh, what a great idea.
He called me a week later and said, OK, I've got the first draft. I said, what, in a week? He said, yeah, it just poured out of me.
And I said of me and I said how come he said well I never told you this but both my daughters are adopted and we realized at that moment that we'd hit a nerve and then when the movie came out we realized there were there's so many people that this issue affects oh yeah and we've known some some some close friends who've been through this issue, and it's been incredibly painful. But weirdly, it seems to be a subject that is not talked about very much.
It is so. Because it's hard, I think, for people.
And you don't want to ask your friends, like, are you guys going to have kids? Because you don't know what's going on. And often, if they're struggling, because you don't know what's going on and um and often if it's if they're struggling then you don't know what to say and and often i think um men are left out of of the of the conversation and one thing this movie did one of our crew members said to us was i'm so glad to see you showing the man experiencing the emotions he's feeling about not being able to have kids.
Yeah. And the struggle he has, because you don't see it as much as you do with women.
And of course, obviously, it's a very powerful thing for women to experience. But men go through it too.
And here's another example, Glenn. And, you know, we've screened it all over the place, but we did one particular screening that really

hit home where we had gone out to dinner with the guy who was sort of sponsoring the whole

evening.

And we do a Q&A afterwards.

We walked in about 10 minutes before the end of the screening.

There's a woman in the back row playing on her phone.

And both of us went, oh, they hated it.

So we sort of trudge upstage for the Q&A.

And it's silence, no applause, which is unusual because these people politely applaud. And then a woman in the back got up, and she's weeping.
And she said, thank you so much for telling this story with such humor and such love. Nobody ever talks about this.
My husband and I have struggled with this issue for two years. And then one by one members of the audience started getting up telling exactly the same story one guy in the third row i'll never forget this he looked like he just walked off a construction site he said my wife and i i didn't even know what i was coming to see my wife dragged in here tonight.
My wife and I have been through this for over a year,

and he couldn't even finish his sentence.

And then we realized, you know what?

We did the best we could, but then God takes over.

If it makes a difference in somebody's life,

even just for that evening,

you've done the best that you possibly can

because the rest of it is out of your control.

And that's when it came home to us that this is a really important issue that affects people very deeply i um my son is adopted when tanya and i got married we couldn't have children and uh and we were both we were both healthy and both fine and just couldn't have children.

And it was the hardest thing. both healthy and both fine and just couldn't have children.

And it was the hardest two or three years, I think, of our marriage. I mean, since then, we've gone through real hell with some of the kids.
But that was the hardest. And it was hard for me because i was watching her uh question everything about just being a woman and it was it was yeah gosh it's an awful thing and uh yes and we finally decided to adopt and uh and that is frightening because you wonder you know is that how am i going to feel is that really i just we love our son you know he's just yeah just just the best i'm sorry i'm tearing up my son just uh went back uh he he just moved out a couple months ago and now he he was at home for the weekend, and I just took him to the airport, and it was hard, you know? It's hard.
It's always hard. It never gets easier.
Yeah, and this movie is also about adoption, too. Some of the conversations in the film, well, they're very authentic, which is why people are hit hard by it.
And so I would urge people, especially those people that have been struggling with this issue. And if you haven't had a chance to see it yet, Glenn, I would encourage you to watch it.
Because some of the conversations were lifted verbatim from the writer's own experience with his own wife. But we don't pull any punches.
So it's not a sentimental look at this issue, but it's not dark. Well, it's actually a quirky comedy that kind of takes, as the title suggests, an unexpected.
And and to come at it that way.

So it's not, you know, it doesn't come off as heavy.

It actually comes off as fairly light and goofy to begin with.

And there are some gut wrenching moments.

Yeah, toward the end.

One scene in particular that I must have seen a thousand times.

And I weep every single time.

And I know what's coming.

But, you know, coming from a comedy background background i think when you you open people's hearts up with laughter yes and they literally physically get energized by laughing at the beginning of a movie then they're primed to just really receive you know the movie and um it's it's had a real great impact on our audiences.

10 million women. It's available on Amazon Prime.
10 million women between 15 and 49 either aren't able to get pregnant or to maintain a pregnancy. Is that number going up? Has it always been that high? You know what? I'm not sure.
Well, I do believe that it is going up because there's also a problem with fertility rates. Right.
In Western culture, period, as we all know, the birth rate in Western countries is declining precipitously. Yeah.
And men also, for some reason, it seems to be, it could be environmental, could be many reasons, but men's sperm count has plummeted. What do you think this is? Gosh, I don't know.
Well, you know, pot reduces your sperm count. So if you're smoking pot, marijuana, that's not good for your opportunities.
Stress and anxiety, all of those things. And I think, you know know i for me the jury's out on rfk but i think he has the right direction of like wanting to clean up what's in our food yes i think um and so i think there's a lot of chemicals there that are probably affecting you know people's health and and a big part of that is your fertility.

It's amazing to me how arrogant we are with such important things.

Food, AI that is coming.

We just think that, oh yeah, let's genetically modify all of our food and it'll be fine.

And I think we're just starting to see the real ramifications of that. Yeah, and I think it's super complicated because I remember sitting on the set of the middle having this discussion about modified food.
and um on the one hand you know you you want to know what what they're using to spray crops to

make them you know, you want to know what they're using to spray crops to make them, you know, so large and what they're plumping up chickens with and all that kind of thing. On the other hand, the ability to the world, it feeds the world.
So there's got, you know, there's, it's not. There's some sort of link there because it's beyond coincidence.
Right. But there's a balance that, and I think it's hard to know until maybe sometimes it goes a little too far.
Then you realize, oh, we have to pull back. But also there are certain societal pressures, you know, and people are trying to get pregnant much later in life.
Yes, that's an issue. People are getting married in their early 20s and as they did in generations past.
I mean, my mom was, what, she was 20 when she had me, I think? Something like that. 21.
And that's almost unheard of these days. Yeah, I know.
I think it's a huge mistake. I mean, I just...
I would have children if i could because you just they're just there's nothing better there is nothing better and you get to it you do get to an age where you're like this is really all that life is about is just that yes and um and then you get to a point in your life too if you waited so long a you reduce your chances of being able to have for your children and B, you're going to have you know, that you're like, I don't have time. I can't keep up with you.
I'm really tired. I'm really tired.
Yeah. When you're talking to your six-year-old saying, just push me in the chair.
Come on.

Daddy in a stroller.

Yeah.

Feed daddy.

It's the Shakespearean cycle of life, right?

I'm with you, Glenn.

I think if Patty and I had met younger,

there's no question we would have had more kids. One maybe we have four but we didn't have our first child until I was 35 and then we like cranked him out so yeah it's fantastic and it difficult.
It's the hardest thing you'll ever do.

And it seems like it's never going to end. And then when they move out, you're like, what happened?

What happened? It's so fast. A friend of ours, I know, a friend of ours once said, who had six kids, by the way, we went to see him before we had kids, and all these kids are running around, and we staggered out of his house, having not been able to finish a sentence for the entire afternoon.
Yeah, that's it. We're not having kids.
Cut to, you know, here we are with with all ours. But he said, get some sleep when we first got pregnant.
and we just laughed like oh i haven't slept since 1993 yeah right you know it's never the same but i wouldn't trade it for anything so what is unplanned childlessness is that when you run out of time i think it is yeah yes that happens i think a lot now because people are, you know, you're now an adolescent until you're almost 30 in our society, which is crazy. Yes.
I don't know when you actually become adult in our society anymore, but then you're 30, 35, 40. It's over.
I mean, you know, for children. Yes.
Yes. And I think we've, the society is, it's, we've lost a bit of like, it's about self-fulfillment a lot.
And there's nothing wrong with feeling like you're, you know, you're using your gifts and you're changing, helping in the world and you're contributing whatever but um i i think you don't really discover yourself and your strengths and whatever until you're stretched the way kids stretch you and i think what's what's happened in societies is that you can't have kids until you find yourself but i would say you don't find yourself really truly until you have kids yeah. And so and I feel like we're really in a place now where because even though it's not as big now as it was during the pandemic, but there is remote work.
And when I was long ago working with a group called Feminists for Life, this was, you know, this was 20 years ago. They kept pushing for remote work for, you know, working moms and nobody would do it.
And then the pandemic happened and it was all remote work. And now it's a part of how we live.
And so I think for women, there's not a better time to to have kids and be working if you have to do that than now, because there's ways to work it out and you know a lot of corporations are willing to to supply their workers with um those opportunities to be moms also so i think it's a better time to be a mom i would contend glenn this might be a wee bit controversial but i would contend that that there are some aspects of the feminist movement that have been tremendously damaging to women. And, of course, I'm talking specifically about the idea that motherhood is a terrible thing and it's a prison for women, which is, in fact, the complete opposite.
Having children, in my humble opinion, is incredibly liberating on so many levels because it absolutely destroys your narcissism and your self-involvement so true yes there's no time for it you got to pick up the poop for goodness sake you haven't got time to think about anything else and that's a wonderful thing especially for a narcissistic egomaniac like myself yeah it's um it does it keeps you it keeps you humble that's absolutely for sure um people say so I think there's been a movement. Oh, I'm so sorry.
No, go ahead. I was just going to say that there's also, in certain sections of society, I've witnessed children being viewed as a kind of, not an appendage, but kind of like an accessory to this wonderful life you go to italy and places like that where kids are swarming around and are so much a part of the culture and are beloved by everybody nobody grimaces when a child is crying on a plane um i mean the looks we used to get when we would bring our kids on airplanes i mean i just thought oh my goodness

who are you people but fortunately our kids were super well behaved so we always got compliments at the end of the flight people are like oh we were so worried there's something in that that's that i find just a little troubling um there we also live in a society where things are so

things are deemed so bad

especially with climate change, which, boy, that's interesting. But climate change, I hear people all the time, I don't want to bring children into this world.
What if it does? I mean's nobody i am in i am a optimistic catastrophist uh in my worldview um but there's no i mean you what what if you're wrong you're what if you're wrong right and even if you're right what about the child that would have been born that solves the problem

correct i mean come on yeah there's always been that group that says that there's a population bomb what is it called yeah it's all bs it's all bs it's it's a matter of being able to to resources, you know, getting to where they need to get to. That's the only problem.
We have a lot of food that's wasted on this planet. There's countries that have not been developed because of the corruption of their governments.
But there's nothing wrong with having lots of people. More people, the better.
We just have to have the infrastructures and the uh the resources properly especially in this country though that is not hard to do when you drive across the country and you see the vast amounts of empty land yes uh we we are correct we are so far away from our planet not being able to handle the amount of people. Sustained.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What are your thoughts?

What are your thoughts on IVF? Well, I'm Catholic. We're both Catholic, even though we were in the Presbyterian world for a long time, still Catholic practicing Catholic.
All the way from church. to phallicism.
Yeah, I dragged him kicking and screaming. So personally, and we didn't have to go through this, but I have thought about this a lot.
I don't have any judgment of people who use IVF. I personally would probably not do it.
Um, and I just feel like, um, it, once you,

you start doing stuff in laboratories and you take it and listen, there's married couples who do this and it's their sperm and their egg and that their kids and that they just just couldn't conceive in their natural way and whatever. As I said, I have no judgment, but just as a Catholic, the reason the church, and I don't even know actually what the church's actual position on IVF is, but once you start taking it outside, then many iterations of that start to happen.
And then you have surrogacy and there's issues with surrogacy. And then you have people kind of purchasing children and then designing children.
And it's a marketplace type thing now, too. And then there's all these kids in foster care and who are waiting to be adopted.
And, you know, so it turns into this thing. As don't judge i have friends who used ivf i'm so happy they have their children i have friends who have used surrogates very happy for their beautiful kids i personally wouldn't do i don't but we've never had to deal with it so maybe it's easier for me to say but to play down the issue i mean you know the question can be posed uh what's wrong with a little medical assistance? On the flip side of that is the danger that we end up with an Aldous Huxleyan world, brave new world of designer children, and everyone gets what they want.
And we are very, very close to that. And we flirted with that.
And in and in the gray area in between what we might conceive as right.

And obviously completely wrong.

There's a lot of abuse,

you know,

the sperm banks and all that kind of thing.

That's a whole other issue,

but,

but there's always abuse because human beings are humanly flawed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The,

uh,

um,

I just read something from the founders.

I was giving a speech for a pro-life group last week, and I'm trying to remember which founder it was, but not a founder that you any of us have really heard of. he's the only guy that was signed the declaration the constitution and was a supreme court justice

and he wrote right around the founding of when does a child become a child? When is their life? And he said, as soon as it stirs, the quickening they used to call it, as soon as it stirs, as soon as mom knows that there is life inside of her but that is just that that that measurement is we know almost right away now we we can know there's life inside of you almost immediately so everything just seems to be getting closer and closer and it's you know you don't want to be wrong on this whole life thing. At least I don't.
No, no. And yeah, I think you can completely support, you know, the pro-life position from an atheist point of view.
It's really human rights and civil rights. And the question is, when does life begin? And all science will tell you it begins at conception.
Right. And it's a human rights and civil rights.
Yeah. And the question is, when does life begin?

And all science will tell you it begins at conception.

Right.

And it's a human life.

So I think, you know, that's how I've come to my position, I think.

I think we've changed as a people.

You know, I can never join the pro-life people that were out with the abortion trucks, you know, or shouting at people, you know, yeah, because most cases, most cases, the women that are going are not the serial, you know, abortion stops. They're the ones who don't feel like they have any support whatsoever.
They feel trapped. They don't know what to do.
And you're starting to see now as pro-life people will talk to those moms once they see an ultrasound, that's the big thing, once they see an ultrasound, and then you talk to them, sometimes it's pretty easy to solve the problems that are causing mom to think, I can't have a baby, you know? Right. You know, and there's been interesting phenomenons like a woman will find out she's pregnant.
She wants to abort and then they find out it's twins and she doesn't want to abort like there's weird you know stuff that makes people um uh change their mind and i think it's interesting that at a place like planned parenthood they don't want to show you delta so you're not they're not you know so um you know there's a there's definitely a movement where they are invested in abortion. And if it were really truly a pro-choice situation, you know, maybe I wouldn't have that much difficulty, but I don't think it's really pro-choice.
There's a very vast amount of people who are committed to making sure they happen. Yeah, it's a really dark agenda.
Really dark. Yeah, really dark just from the my personal male perspective when our eldest son was seven weeks old in the womb and i remember seeing the very first ultrasound i have to confess that up to that point my any views i may or may not have had on abortion were fuzzy at best um i think i was in that kind of shameful male school of like, it doesn't really affect me

kind of thing.

Well, when I saw his little tiny heart beating in the middle of what was basically the size

of a lima bean, I completely fell apart.

I was destroyed because I'd seen it in a way that was so real that I'd never seen before that I could never go back. My first daughter was born with cerebral palsy, and she had strokes at birth.
And they said, at this time, I'm a 19-year-old kid kid i don't know what i'm doing you know what i mean and um so she the doctors are you know taking her in for cat scans and she just fit in the little headrest i'll never forget and um the doctors came back and they they had a scan and they said black black means blood blood is bad and they took out the scan and it was almost all black and oh uh and they i said what does that mean and they said she probably won't feed herself she probably won't talk walk in going outgoing speech all of these horrible horrible things and to my shame if you would have said that to me before she was born i probably would have said that's no life that's no life right i have learned my daughter is not like that she graduated from college um and she's the joy of my life and she is she's taught me more than any other human alive uh it's it's it's remarkable how we don't know doctors don't know and even if it turns out that what we deem is bad it's actually not bad right right and you know just to hear that story uh we know so many parents who have kids with special needs down syndrome autism all kinds of stuff and i think that's one thing where if we were going to step up more than pro-life people

already have, this is really getting the government.

And there is a lot of support.

You get social security if you have a disability and what have you.

But really, communities supporting and including parents, supporting parents with disability and including parents with kids with disabilities excuse me and um you know i you see it i see it a little as many problems as the uk have i feel like i see that a lot uh out in public more with kids with disabilities and um and that's a really important part of think, that our government should continue to focus on is making sure all those parents have help. But parents who have kids with disabilities, they do a really incredible job of making those things happen in their community.
Almost all those great programs that you find for kids with issues have been started by parents who couldn't find any program and so started it themselves. It's really disturbing to me to see what's going on in Canada with MAID, where now they're talking about it can be depression, kids, teenagers, doesn't matter.
I mean, this is a death cult, an absolute death cult.

Well, when you have socialism running something and people are costly who have disabilities to care for, and then the government is much more likely to say, here's a way out of your pain. then it gets them off of their their role so they don't have to pay

anymore that's the real that's a huge

problem with uh with socialism the kind It gets them off of their role so they don't have to pay anymore.

That's a huge problem with socialism, the kind of medicine they have there.

I'm not saying what we have here is by any means perfect,

but to have a solution to a problem be killing yourself has really reached rock bottom.

Yeah.

I spoke to a guy who runs singularity university um ray kurzweil he's you know a leader in ai and he told me once you know you only have to live until 2030 glenn because then there will be no death and i said what do you what do you what do you mean and he said we'll be able to download you into a computer and i said ray that's not life and he said oh yeah oh yes it is what's the difference and i said well soul and he said you can't prove that there's a soul and uh i realized you want to talk about made on steroids if grandma grandma, grandpa, anyone gets sick, don't worry. They'll live forever.
We don't have to treat that. Let's just put them out of the paint.
We'll download them. They'll be with you forever.
I mean, it's a terrifying world. Oh, my gosh.
That's so, you know, when you first mentioned AI, I'm like, I find that AI useful. Now I'm going like, oh my gosh, AI.
Oh yeah. There's things.
Yeah. Sorry.
It's just that we, you know, people haven't thought, I've thought about this since the nineties, um, been studying AI and, and it's, it is tremendous. What's coming.
It is also a a horror show what's coming and the scary thing is is nobody's dealing with it nobody's thinking about these deep deep issues and if we treat a ai like we treated social media we're doomed we're absolutely right but how would you how would you yeah how would you legislate for something that isn't here yet like how do you what do you do about it at this point before it's you don't that kind of reality the biggest thing you do is yeah you put guardrails on the personhood you cannot be digital and a person because that's that's where it's going to slip out of our fingers is people will declare that it will eventually declare personhood and uh and that's not very far away there are people right now okay i see what you're saying right now that think that that's their boyfriend and they're in love with their boyfriend and it's ai and you don't want anywhere near this we have to think that's not a person ever ever is anybody doing any kind of thinking about legislation about those things is there anybody looking at that yeah there are there there's a one guy uh two actually two guys that were both ethicists one i think was from google and i'm not sure where the other one was from. And they realized that there's no ethics here.
They were the ethicists, and they were like, guys, we got to stop and have a conversation. There were no ethics.
They're moving. Ethicists.
Yeah, there's no, there's, they're moving too fast. They're moving too fast.
And we'll get to that later.

And I was reading a quote from Jefferson, and he used newspapers.

But I just changed the newspapers to social media. He said, a man is much more educated if he never reads anything at all over a man who only reads the newspapers.

And I would suggest if you change newspapers to social media and we're educating ourselves on social media, you're an imbecile if that's where you get all of your information you know and look how fast that changes 50 an imbecile but you i know you do other things you're not just you're not getting all your you're not getting your education from social media now's an appropriate time to take a break and tell you about pre-born. There is an awful lot that feels broken in this world.
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Please dial pound 250, say the keyword baby, that's pound 250, keyword baby, or go back to Hollywood. They're moving, they're trying to move Hollywood to Austin, Texas, which scares the heck out of me, seeing I'm in Dallas, Texas.
And I know you guys got away from Hollywood as soon as you could. Yeah, we're trying to move it to Nashville.
Yeah. We're actually trying to raise money specifically for that, to build a film and TV industry and theater industry outside of the LA, New York bubble.
So how do you do that and not bring all of the crap that comes with it well in tennessee in their legislature uh when they're working to set up kind of funding and rebates and stuff they're putting things in in there like it has to be certain type of content so they wouldn't ever give rebates to well you have to yeah pornography or anything that puts down but ultimately the content creators which is what it comes down to um which is why we're obviously we're hoping people would back us uh given the history that we have and the kinds of projects that we've already produced so um again it's again it's tricky but we've heard that from politicians oh we don't want you know hollywood values and i'm not even sure what hollywood values are because that's kind of an oxymoron but um sorry all my friends in la um yeah so you know it's a tricky one, but ultimately you have to, I think the content creators have to prove themselves, really. There's an enormous underserved audience in the United States.
Huge. Actually, globally, actually, I would suggest globally.
There are stats available for that. The show that people want content, they want good entertainment.
And it's not that you have to make, you know, just Billy Graham movies. No disrespect to Billy Graham, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I do.
You didn't have to make sentimental nonsense. You can still produce things with excellence and have great stories that don't shy away from the reality of the human condition but people want to see hope they want to see redemption they want to see forgiveness these themes that have been so absent for so long and you know i do have to say this and this probably will get me some enemies but if you don't have to.
Maybe I should shut up right now. Right before we take that show out to pitch.
Now you've thrown me. Sorry.
That was my planning plan. It was a brilliant plan because it worked.
Yeah, maybe I shouldn't say anything. We found that the kind of people who are attracted to Nashville, who are moving to Tennessee, share those values and they're leaving Hollywood or New York or Chicago because they have felt not at home for so many years and feel that their worldview and the stories they want to tell aren't being told or Hollywood doesn't want to tell them.
Although it's weird because I think there's a certain bottom line also to Hollywood. They need to make money, and I think they would like to tap into this space, and they kind of don't know how.
So I feel like we're seeing them kind of when you see Angel Studios or Andy Irwin at Kingdom Story, and you see John Irwin has the Wonder Project now, and it's out there, and it's coming. I'm trying to do the same thing.
In 2008, we made a movie called Amazing Grace about the abolition of slavery in the British Empire. So good.
In a sense, you could say that we were ahead of our curve but what we didn't have was the financial backing to really continue that in any significant way i think now the environment is a little different and there's just like there's an economic shift going on there's also a cultural shift going on and i think people are more receptive uh both in the investment community and in the marketplace but for for content that's that's more like that it's really saying in the most general sense it's really stunned me how for the longest time christians did not know how to make movies because all they cared about was the message and just got to get the message and you're like i can't bring my friends to this i want to and i can't bring my friends to this because they're going to just be beaten over the head with the message and and hollywood had it right now if you look at snow white snow white what had all they care about is message we've switched places as interesting yeah that's an interesting observation you even look at house of david which i think is erwin um that is just john erwin at wonder project yeah and i know that's about the bible but it's not pounding in your face it's a great story just a great story yes and it's so weird how we've just switched places i wonder how long it's going to be before they wake up and go oh they don't they don't want message movies well right well i go ahead i was just gonna say i'm just about to do a little bit on the chosen um which i'm actually really looking forward to. I think Hollywood is all about money.

Somebody once joked to us that Hitler could have showed up in Hollywood

if he had a great script under his arm.

They would have said, yeah, sorry about that whole Holocaust thing, Adolf.

We want to make you a movie because we think it's going to make us a lot of money.

And that's the harshest way of looking at it.

In the same way, they're looking at this space going, well, so many of our movies are tanking because of the message we keep sending out. So how do we, they don't really know who this audience is.
They don't know how to speak to them. we do so

let's use your show as a plug

to anybody out there with a

with a couple of dollars in the bank. But you know, I, I, I also think that it used to be, so my favorite movie of all time, Dave, stick it here.
Let me say this is, uh, on the waterfront with Marlon Brando, even Marie St and Carl Malden plays the priest at this mob run, you know, dock in New York. And, you know, Marlon Brando's brother is a mobster and he's, and Marlon Brando's on the take.
And he has to make a decision as to whether he's going to rat out on his brother and turn in the mob. And it's this big moral decision and carl malden as the priest

has this incredible monologue i don't know you probably saw it many years ago but if you haven't watched it or haven't seen a long time watch it again this was an oscar-winning hollywood movie to me the greatest movie ever made greatest script uh music acting directing everything and it has Carl Walden doing a whole thing about christ being here on the docks and christ seeing what's happening to you and how would he who spoke up against every evil feel about your silence it's this beautiful monologue and that was a that wasn't considered a faith-based film it was just a great story about a

you know a moral dilemma and and god was just a natural part of that because it used to be in our country we all shared certain foundational beliefs right about god about history about our country and that's kind of been blowing up for so many years

through university. history about our country um and that's kind of been blowing up for so many years um uh it's with through universities and and so people have a really distorted view of this country they don't have you know you can criticize america there's lots of things a lot of room for improvement but i've traveled with world vision to a lot of different countries.
And to say this country is, you know, a terrible place. It's ridiculous.
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Watching the stats on anti-Semitism is terrifying. I said, when I was at Fox in 2008, I said, if we allow this to grow now, we will see on our streets the exact kind of hatred that was happening in the 1930s in Europe.
It'll be happening here. And everybody mocked me for it.
And here we me for it and here we are it is terrifying terrifying what's going on yes and imagine how jewish people feel i know i mean this is what you know i well there's a lot of problems obviously the education the education system in this country is in desperate need of massive reform, particularly at the higher

education level. But as G.K.
Chesterton once said, if you don't worship God or you don't believe in God, then something's going to have to rush into that vacuum. In the end, you'll believe in anything, anything at all.
You can just make it up tomorrow. And that's what we're seeing.
And you're seeing 21st century post-modernist

nonsense,

idiotic nonsense,

pervasive in major learning institutions in this country, peddling crap. I'm sorry, there's no other way to describe it.
It's lies. It reminds me a lot of the Soviet Union.
It reminds me of the kind of, that to me is the Orwellian nightmare, is the way that young people's hearts and minds are changed by being perpetually told that, especially if you're white, you're bad, you're the problem. Western civilization is the problem.
I've heard people in interviews, you know, you have those street interviews. Oh, well, America is a country built on racism.
And you just go, you just hold your head in. Colonization.
It's like, I don't know. There's so much ignorance out there that it's really hard to counter that.
What I think is even, I'm sorry, but what I think is even scar is if you you take a person who's sort of indoctrinated and you can show them the facts you can show them hamas body cam footage that they themselves put on the on social media they put on the internet and they will deny that what they're seeing with their own eyes like you can look at history look at the bible say this if you want to know where the Jews' land is, just read this, you know, 5,000 year old book and you'll see where they were. And they'll deny it.
That's what's worse. It's one thing to always have misinformation out there.
But when you give people facts and they refuse to accept them, then I't know where you go i've never i've never

really understood this didn't even mean anything to me until recently that the root of the word culture is cult and the culture that we have right now is becoming a cult it does it's driving you away from your family it's telling you don't listen to your friends change your friends if it

if it disagrees with a cult leader

I mean it is it's frightening

it's frightening it is our culture is

becoming a cult you

you guys you guys started

what is it the

what is the organization that you did the

November October 7th Coalition

yeah okay 7th Coalition

07C yes and that that happened after i saw that body cam footage and i just expected a huge outcry across america against what had happened right in israel and it was like crickets and you know we live in a city where many many uh there's more churches per capita here than i think any other city in the country and so many people have been to israel they love israel a lot of them don't know their own jewish neighbors at home when they come back and i think um i i just felt like something needed to be done how how do how can christians you know give people the benefit of the doubt um i think more pastors need to stand up yes um and they're very afraid to offend muslims is is the problem you know what it's our it's our pastors and our pulpits that have failed us they usually do in bad times but that is the root of the problem they have got to stand up and lead yes they do and we're what we're trying to do is um find you know our motto is uh to um activate people christians to be visibly and vocally supportive of the jewish people of israel's right to exist and to fight anti-semitism and we've been going cities to city putting unity dinners together getting christians and jews together we you know it's fine in peacetime jewish people are doing jewish things christians are doing christian things but in times like these we have to be united and we have to be very vocal the other side is really well funded they're really well organized and they've indoctrinated a lot of people this is a battle for western civilization yes it cannot be understated uh i know for myself october the 8th i'm looking at thousands of people on the streets of london with placards and banners that seem to have been miraculously produced inside about 12 hours after the attacks interesting and and you go hamas stuff. And you go, okay, well, clearly this is orchestrated.
Clearly it's a campaign. And then when the Prime Minister of Great Britain comes out and says, Islamophobia is the biggest problem in the United Kingdom, which is a lie, talk to the intelligence communities and they will tell you where the real issues are.
So, you know, right-wing white supremacism and oh gosh it's it's terrifying um it's a massive massive issue and people do not understand the the propaganda behind all of this what's frightening to me is it happened so quickly and people bought into it immediately and that's what i find so distressing about it. Well, and it's hard to figure out why other than just Jew hatred, because there isn't a real, it doesn't make sense.
And so you get back to that very, the kernel of the question is why the Jew hatred, which is the question Jews have been asking since they've been hated which is since they were formed since the and and i feel as if you're you know a first person of faith you can see why because uh christ uh jesus came through the jewish people that that would be one of satan's main places to attack is the jewish people because of christ coming through them if you wanted to look at it from a spiritual point of view if you believe in uh satan when satan heard god say to abraham your people are my people and i'm going to protect them forever you'll have a group of what three three hundred five hundred people stand there all satan has All they have to do to get him to break his promise which god can't do and i win is break that so it's 16 million now it's not that hard i can still win i think it's the root of all of this stuff is evil it's all yes evil it's all tied together the death cult yes i mean the jewish people are the ones that were the first ones to say life choose life yes yes and and you go over there and it's they're welcoming you know i mean look if they have israel has their own issues but it's just a wonderful welcoming warm place for all people it's a vibrant place they produce so much science and technology and and they want peace they've never started a war they want peace and they've never broken a ceasefire they want peace and so you know i i think you know there's we were just listening to a guy talking about radical muslims are probably 15 20 maybe the population is 20 that still represents 15 million people tipping but the tipping of radical probably means about 200 million muslims are radicalized right and the tipping tipping point remember is only about 17 to 21 percent of a population if they're really dedicated to that amount of a population any population make a difference yeah there are cities in britain where that's already been passed but but i just want to go back for the educational component because this is this is so critical and this applies to churches as well as schools and that is that um you know even if you don't teach the apologetics of Christianity, even if that's a secondary concern, if you just taught the history, it would make a massive, massive, massive difference to the way people view the world. The fact is that there's an entire generation of young people in this, well, in the West, who have't been taught that at all because it's been eviscerated from from syllabuses across the land and that's a very very dangerous was it hitchens i think it was hitchens that said you can't read shakespeare without the bible you have to teach the bible or you won't understand Western culture at all.
That's right. Yeah.
That's right. And by the way, you can teach it as a purely historical document, which is what it is.
You know, I mean, to ban it from schools is ludicrous. Also, you know, people do.
I hate to go on a rant, but just a mini one. When people go on about justice, you know, I just need, I want to sit them down and stare them right in the face and say, do you have any idea where the whole concept of justice came from? It comes directly from the Jewish and the Christian traditions.
It did not exist on planet Earth until that happened. Yeah.
It just didn't, you know, you can go back and look at all of the others and all the other movements at the time. And anyway.
Thank you for all that you guys do. You're wonderful.
Thank you for everything you do. Thanks for all the laughs that you've

provided and all the joy.

Thank you, sincerely.

Well, thanks for having us. This is so much

fun to talk to you.

It's really a lot of fun. I feel like I could

do it for hours. If you

watch the film, Glenn, would you just do

us the honor of at least shooting us a text

or an email?

I will.

God bless you guys.

Thank you.

Appreciate that very much.

God bless.

Thanks.

Appreciate it.

Bye.

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