Ep 243 | NEW EVIDENCE: Shroud of Turin Shows Exact Moment of Resurrection?! | The Glenn Beck Podcast

Some days call for working up a sweat,

working on your passion,

and endless action.

Ditch the glitch with Liquid IV's new energy multiplier sugar-free, refreshing flavors like strawberry kiwi and blackberry lemonade.

Scientifically formulated to support physical energy, hydration, focus, mood, and social stamina.

Liquid IV's new energy multiplier sugar-free, hydrating energy.

Tap the banner to learn more

and now a blaze media podcast are you ready to see the face of Jesus because in 2025 you can

and thanks in part to my next guest you will see it scientific advancement and now artificial intelligence are working to prove a lot of things the validity of the gospels and the historic evidence for the resurrection of Jesus You might be skeptical.

So was my next guest until he was faced with too many facts to ignore.

He has studied what we are going to talk about today for years.

He is now one of the leading authorities.

He's going to talk about the death, the burial, and the resurrection of Christ.

What was it actually like?

And how the top scientific minds studying the ancient Shroud of Turin may have changed the world forever.

The Shroud of Turin.

It is an amazing piece of evidence that now has new science to back it up.

Welcome, distinguished New Testament scholar, pastor, author, and president of Christian Thinkers Society, Jeremiah J.

Johnston.

So we are all getting older, and I don't know about you, but I've felt the aches and pains that come along with that kind of thing.

And I used to be a sufferer of horrible pain in my hands.

You'll notice I said used to because I listened to my wife, and my wife told me you should try Relief Factor.

And it was something that was, you you know being offered on the blaze it was a sponsor on the blaze but i just dismissed it because i had already been to the greatest doctors in the world and they had they had given me all kinds of pharmaceuticals and none of them worked my wife said try this drug-free supplement you're advertising it on the blaze and i'm like i'm not because i've never tried it Then I tried it.

I took it for two weeks.

And at first, I dismissed the gains of health and not feeling so much pain.

And then I thought, oh, it's just me.

And I stopped taking it.

What a mistake that was.

Because all my pain came back.

It works.

Relief Factor.

Try their three-week quick start, 1995.

All you have to do is go to relieffactor.com, 800, the number four relief.

800, the number 4 relief, relieffactor.com.

This is a Bose moment.

You're 10 boring blocks from home until the beat drops in Bose clarity.

And the bass line transforms boring into maybe the best part of your day.

Your life deserves music.

Your music deserves Bose.

Shop Bose.com slash Spotify.

I have to start with this, that I grew up Catholic, so I know what the Shroud of Turin is.

But back in the day,

people that are evangelicals would say, that's just a Catholic relic.

It's not real.

And then dating happened in the late 80s, and they said, no, it's not from the right time period.

It's a hoax.

It's a forge.

But everything has changed now, right?

Correct.

So let's start with what is this?

Absolutely.

The shroud of Turin is thought to be the burial cloth of the historical Jesus of Nazareth, meaning that it's about 14.3, 14 feet 3 inches long by 3 feet 7 inches wide.

And it's thought that Joseph of Arimathea had purchased this for himself as his own pre-death planning, along with the new tomb.

And so even though Jesus is executed in an excruciating fashion as a criminal, he's buried as a king.

And the Shroud of Turin gives physical evidence of that fact.

When did we first see the Shroud of Turin appearance?

The Shroud of Turin first appears in John chapter 20.

We see this word Sinden used, the Nathonia in Greek, and we also see the Greek word pseudarion, which is the face cloth.

And then we know that John gives it to Thomas, and then the early church historian who was right there at the Council of Nicaea, Eusebius, begins to tell us about the Shroud of Turin.

Now, he doesn't use those words.

I'm glad.

I'm from Kansas City, okay?

So I'm a massive Chiefs fan.

But the Chiefs have not always been called the Kansas City Chiefs.

You know, right after you were born, they were called the Dallas Texans.

Same teams.

Very similar with the image of Edessa, the the mandolin, the face of Jesus.

It's been known by different names throughout antiquity.

It only came to be known as the Shroud of Turin in the 16th century when it finally goes to Turin.

Exactly.

Exactly.

This has been known from the beginning.

Exactly.

Historically.

We have a historical record both in the documents and also in art and in numismatics.

coins of the Shroud, which is fascinating.

It goes back much older than the Middle Ages.

Okay, so let's start with that.

Let's just start with the evidence that before it becomes what it is now, before it goes to Turin, let's start with some of the evidence that it existed.

Absolutely.

The coins, the art.

What do you mean?

Well, and I want to start originally with the best documents that we have, which are the canonical gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

All four of those make reference to the fact that Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus prepared Jesus' body for burial.

This is accurate based on Jewish burial traditions.

An atheist archaeologist at University of North Carolina, Jodi Magnus, says the gospels get it right when it comes to Jewish burial traditions based on archaeology.

And so Joseph of Arimathea has a very expensive, we know from the shroud, it has a herringbone weave.

Now, Glenn, the only reason I know what herringbone is is I had to buy that for a backsplash for my wife, and I just know it was the more expensive one.

Right, yeah, right.

So this was an expensive weave, but we have hundreds of shrouds from the land of Israel.

We have hundreds of shrouds from Jerusalem and the Qumran community.

Very few of them, if any, have the herringbone weave.

So this was a rich man's burial garment.

So it shows up there.

John 20 is a key passage because, and I, you know, it's amazing when you read the scripture, you read it so many times, but then it's like you read it for the very first time.

It speaks to you.

In John chapter 20, John outruns Peter to the tomb of Jesus, which we'll we'll discuss in a minute.

It's not until he looks in and it says he saw in Greek three times.

He saw, he saw, blepo,

he saw with understanding, theoretical understanding.

Then he saw with experience three times the Athonia, the Sinden, the burial shroud of Jesus, and the face garment, the pseudarian, which we have.

And then he believed.

So right there is where the shroud mystery begins.

And they would not have just shuffled these burial garments because it's not like it's shoved.

The body, as we'll talk about, emanates through the cloth in the resurrection moment, which we'll talk about.

And then Thomas, Eusebius, tells us that the disciple Thomas, who Eusebius is a respected church historian, okay?

I'm not doing Christian history right now.

I'm not losing my mind.

I'm not privileging this with some kind of Christian bias.

I'm looking at this and evaluating the evidence that you asked about.

It goes to Edessa, where a king is said to have actually been healed by it, and there it stays until the Muslim invasion of the sixth century when it then goes to Constantinople, and we read about it there, and then it eventually goes to France.

It's been in private hands, and so where you and I were raised thinking that, oh, this is like the three wise men.

You know, you can go see the three wise men

in a cathedral.

This is not a Catholic relic.

It did not come into be.

And to say it accurately, the Pope is custodial of the Turin Shroud.

It was given to him personally, but not until the 1980s, 1985, to be exact.

So

I was conditioned both from my background and from my education to think, oh, there's nothing scientific about that.

In this corner,

by where you see his feet on the back side,

there is a large section taken out.

What is that?

Very good eye, Glenn.

And so because the Shroud of Turin was held in private family hands, noble hands, the hands of a knight, it would be brought out at special occasions.

Like if you were having Glenn and Tanya over for dinner, you brought the Shroud of Turin out.

You wanted to impress your guests.

Or if your child was getting baptized, you would bring out the Shroud.

Be like, I can one-up you.

And we know, again, from the historical record that pieces of the shroud were given away to dignitaries as gifts or even as marriage dowries.

You would give them a piece of Jesus' burial cloth.

Isn't that fascinating?

And you can see that right here in our museum replica.

Okay, so

before we get to the, well, first, talk to me about the coins, the face of Christ, absolutely icon.

Yes.

And so when you look at the artwork, the skeptics will say that this is a medieval forgery based on the carbon 14 dating.

Again, we can't trust this.

This is the product of a forger.

Never mind, it cannot be duplicated.

One man has offered over a million British pounds to anyone who can duplicate what's in the Shroud of Turin.

And we see

these evidential breadcrumbs where we know that in the coins, numismatics, we see the exact same image of the face of Jesus in coins that corresponds with the face of Jesus on the Shroud of Turin.

And then if you go to Sinai and you begin to see the icons and art, you see that all of the earliest earliest art of Jesus that we have, he's bearded.

I want to correct people who think that Jesus didn't have a beard.

No, he would have taken the Nazarite vow and his beard probably would have grown 21 inches during his three and a half year ministry that we know from the synoptics and John's Gospels.

So he was a bearded man.

He was a physically fit man.

I'm a historical Jesus scholar, so I've given my life to study the historical Jesus.

Jesus probably walked somewhere around 15 to 20,000 miles in his lifetime.

If you add up all of his trips to Jerusalem, this is a strong man.

This is a man's man.

And we see all of that reflected in the iconography and the earliest Christian art.

We see that in the icon at Sinai.

What is the most famous icon painting of his face that's like split in half right now?

Yes, this is fascinating because I actually have a dear friend, Doug Powell, who's taken that icon and the image of the shroud and he's put it in mid-journey AI to produce what I think is the best, closest image of the face of Jesus.

And it is a Semitic man.

It is a man from the land of Israel.

It's not the effeminate Jesus of medieval Christian art.

The effeminate Jesus, the weak Jesus, the no-beard Jesus, all of the earliest coins, the earliest icon from Sinai, and many others.

And my slides when I teach students, I mean, you just, again, see this resemblance all emanating off of the source material.

And the source

material for the artist is that face right there that we see right here in your studio.

Okay.

So this is such an amazing,

let's just call it for now.

Let's just call it art.

Correct.

As an artist myself,

if I put myself back in time,

you know, even 150 years, I don't know what a negative is.

Exactly.

Okay.

So this requires somebody a thousand years ago,

at worst, okay, a thousand years,

perpetrating a fraud

with the face of Christ in something that no one understood, right?

A negative, right?

Right.

And we're just getting started.

We haven't even talked about the pollen.

We haven't talked about the blood type.

I mean, you, for this to be a work of a forger, the best modern scientist, and Glenn, I want to be clear when I say this: 500,000 interdisciplinary hours have been spent studying this object by 63 different academic disciplines.

63, I have one academic discipline as a historian, as a first century scholar.

63 different academic disciplines cannot explain how there is an image.

in the Shroud of Turin.

They cannot explain it.

So let me go to, in 88, they said this was a forgery.

Yes.

And it came from that corner, the opposite corner.

Yes.

Tell me what happened.

In that corner, in the top left, if you're looking at the shroud, this is the very infamous corner.

Three different labs received a piece of the Shroud about the size of our pinky, okay?

And they carbon dated that

source material.

And if you look at the original STERP team's finding, that's the Shroud of Trend research project, they explain exactly what happened.

Many of these men have published and women have published peer-reviewed journals, not in popularizers, but peer-reviewed journals interacting with the carbon-14 dating.

And what we can say, Glenn, unequivocally is the carbon-14 dating is totally erroneous.

And we know that because they took patches.

The shroud has survived at least three fires, but specifically in the 16th century, in the mid-1500s, the shroud survives a fire in Shambury, France.

And there the nuns not only sewed in these triangles, see all the triangles for the benefit of our audience as well, the fire almost took the shroud.

It was folded in a box.

And so those horizontal black lines, those are scorch marks, okay?

The 16 triangles are patches, but we also, the evidence tells us that the

nuns also patched the fraying edges of this 0.3 millimeter thick linen, fine linen shroud.

And they did a technique, and again, anyone can read this, okay?

All you have to do, we learn from everyone, but don't ever let anyone think for you.

You can see that there is cotton that is invisibly woven into the patchwork of the fibers of the linen shroud.

So let me be clear.

The data, it was a problem of sampling.

It was a problem of the sample that was taken.

They took literally a patch sample, and then the headline was, this is a medieval forgery.

It's from 1260 to 1380.

I talked to Schwartz, who was one of the lead scientists on that, an atheist.

Correct.

Who,

when he discovered

what happened and where the patch was taken from, he reversed himself.

Did he not?

He did.

Yeah, and he's he

became a great Christian.

And as an atheist, he's like, I'm telling you, that's real.

And not only an atheist, as you know from interviewing him, but a Jewish atheist, by the way, a Jewish and very much

skeptical.

It took him 17 years to believe in the authenticity authenticity of the Shroud.

And he is the documenting photographer.

And so what we have in your studios today is the photograph that Barry Schwartz took during the

five days, 120 hours that the scientists had access to the shroud.

The only time it's ever happened in history.

was that moment.

And this photograph is based on the shroud.

And it's actually printed on Linux.

That's right.

It's printed.

And we can actually go up and touch it.

We can feel it.

And what's phenomenal about it is when you hold up, and I love doing this with audiences and with students, when you invert your iPhone, or for those that have Androids, however, you do that, when you invert your phone and you look at the picture of the crucified man, you see it in the negative.

He's actually photopositive.

That's the fascinating thing.

This is actually the sepia tone, faint image that looks like a dirty sheet is actually the photo positive.

When we see the negative, we see the man in the positive.

And what we're seeing is the moment of resurrection.

If you were faking this back then,

you would not have made it this faint.

No.

Because honestly, I could look at that sheet and look at it for a long time and then wonder, am I seeing a face there?

Is that, you know, this is so unbelievably subtle.

Now, we've gone

back.

Technology has taken us back into the shroud and they have found.

seeds and

everything that originates from Jerusalem at that time, right?

That's right.

So Max Frey, a criminologist, spent five years of his life studying all of the pollen spores on the Shroud of Turin.

And you would think, okay, if this is a forgery, you're going to find pollen, you're going to find all kinds of things from plant life in Europe.

What does he find?

The majority of the pollen found blooms in Jerusalem, and it doesn't bloom year-round.

It only blooms around the springtime.

Wow.

Passover.

We know we can date, based on the historical record, Jesus' death by crucifixion, which is the best established fact of the ancient world.

He dies by Roman crucifixion April 3rd, AD 33, springtime.

And so there's two-thirds of all the pollen spores are from specifically Jerusalem.

And again, this is a criminologist, not a theologian.

Max Frey saying, I've given five years of my life to this.

How would you fake that if you were a forger?

How would you even know how to fake that?

Back then, you wouldn't.

That's the point.

And this is where I want to just share with you, Glenn, the Shroud of Turin is the most lied-about artifact from antiquity.

There's not a close second.

Scholars, Bible scholars, dismiss it.

I'm sitting in Keeble College, Oxford Faculty of Theology, where I would go to attend Faculty of Theology, led by Marcus Bachmule.

I have written a 93,000-word Überlief Rangs Geschichte of Resurrection, the tradition of resurrection belief in the Judeo-Christian motif.

It's published.

It's been written for dozens in the academic world who care about that.

And ask me how many times in faculty of theology or working in the Griffith Papyrology Lab where I studied codecology and ancient text.

Ask me how many times anyone ever brought up the Shroud of Turin to me studying the resurrection at the primary terminal level.

How many?

Zero.

It was laughed about.

So Bible scholars dismiss it.

Scientists suppress it.

The British Museum, which is tied into one of the three, I mentioned the three Oxford labs that did the carbon-14 dating.

You can look at the peer-reviewed journal.

For over 20 years, they suppressed the raw data.

And it took a French attorney who believed in the validity of the shroud as an authentic artifact to get them to finally release just the raw data.

So I can share what I'm sharing with you today: that, okay, the raw data shows

it was a poison sample, as it were.

It was a sample that was doctored.

Motivation?

The motivation is John chapter 11, Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead.

And people that don't want to believe in truth, no evidence is enough.

They refuse to believe that Jesus is who he says he is.

Even with Lazarus, who would begin to have an odor from after rigomortis, is raised before them.

So for some people, no evidence is enough.

When I was defending my thesis after three years of my life, the man who I'm defending it to has the power to pass me in my viva.

He says, do you actually believe the resurrection of Jesus happened, Jeremiah?

And that's a big, wonderful man, big British bow tie.

But he said, or is that just imaginative storytelling?

And I said, David Hume chooses probability, said wise men choose probabilities.

I believe Jesus physically rose from the grave.

That's the best explanation of the evidence.

He said, I don't see it that way.

And this is a Bible scholar going.

Oh, yeah, I know.

I know.

I spoke to Dominic Crossan one.

Yeah, you know who he is.

Oh, of course, Dominic.

And

he's a great guy.

Fun.

Yeah.

But he absolutely

didn't happen.

Right.

Didn't happen.

And so what's the motivation?

For those that turn their hearts from truth, no evidence is enough.

Yeah.

And so I want to be addicted to truth.

That's why I love your program.

That's why I love what you stand for.

Thanks.

Okay.

So we have the evidence that the carbon dating now we have done again and it's right.

So we have not carbon dated it.

We have actually other ways in which we have better.

This is breaking news.

We have something called waxis dating, wide-angle x-ray scattering.

And this is really fun.

You know how I mentioned that we have other burial shrouds of Jesus from the land of Israel?

So there's a lab in Italy that has a burial shroud that we know is from Masada.

And you've been to Israel.

You know all about Masada, the last stand against Titus.

So we have this.

We know the date is sound, 8070 or so, right?

And so they have that shroud sampling.

And then they took a sample, a correct sample of the shroud, and they compared that using wide angle X-ray scattering.

And they see that there has been 2,000 years of degradation in the shroud fibrils of this fine lemon garment, meaning it has been getting old for 2,000 years, not 700.

Think about that variation.

And some skeptics will say, well, Jeremiah and Glenn,

you know, this is a shroud.

This is like a linen.

I mean, I have linen.

Are you telling me

it will last 2,000 years?

Yes.

We actually have much older linen garments.

You can, again, look at the Tarkin dress, which is a beautiful blouse that's fine linen, and it's 3,000 years older than the Shroud of Turin, Glenn.

So it's a very stable material given the right circumstances.

Again, when Jesus rises from the dead, everything changes in the mind of the first Jews.

And so why would they discard this?

Okay, talk about the blood stains on it.

And this is so important with you as an artist.

How would you know how to forge this?

So Alan Adler and other hematologists who are, again, these are experts in the blood.

I've taken blood samples.

And if we had an ultraviolet light right now, that'd be a lot of fun, Glenn, because I could show you that the shroud, the number one substance on the shroud is blood.

There are pints and pints and pints of blood all over the shroud.

There's blood, there's there's 50 abrasions.

We'll get to the crown of thorns on the forehead.

372 lacerations from a Roman whip called a flagrum, the flagellation of Jesus.

So there's blood everywhere.

They test the blood.

And again, if you're a forger, you're just going to use animal blood, right?

And the blood comes back, human blood.

Guess what the blood type is?

Type AB.

Less than 3% of the world's population has type AB blood, and it is found primarily in the land of Israel.

And it's male blood.

They've tested the chromosome.

Some people are like, well, could we take the blood and clone Jesus?

No, we don't.

I don't recommend that every experiment anyway.

But it just shows, again, the scriptures say, fully God, fully man.

And we see that evidence in the blood.

Now, the interesting thing is when we were walking through it, the lance wound in the side is right there in the Shroud of Tern.

We'll talk about this in the way that Jesus died in an excruciating fashion.

When they look at that blood, that blood they tested, and that is post-mortem blood.

He was already dead.

That blood is tested differently than the blood on the rest of the shroud.

And that is consistent.

Pilate is shocked based on the historical record that Jesus had died so quickly.

Jesus dies in six hours, which shows you the particular brutality that he went through in the scourging and also beating in the house of Caiaphas, etc.

And yet we know based on the blood samples that this is post-mortem blood.

So, again, if you're going to fake the shroud, you've got to kill a guy.

His blood needs to be post-mortem blood, and then you need to slap that on the spear wound.

That's nuts, exactly.

It takes no one would have thought 700 years ago, right?

So, how do you explain, or can we explain?

I've always thought of the shroud because it's a negative

as

he is resurrected, it's just like a flash of light

energy

that just imprints on this.

Yes.

Is there another explanation for this?

Again, another scientist, another school has given five years to study this.

Just the amount of electromagnetic energy or even radiation it would take to produce an image on a shroud like this.

But the fascinating thing is the timing, because when they sample it, it takes a lot of time to get the image on the shroud, but then the shroud would burn up almost instantaneously.

So, we know the image of the shroud based on five years of study on light.

And again, you can read all this, it's fascinating.

We know that it happened in 1 40th of a billionth of a second.

Oh my gosh.

1/40th billionth of a second, and it took 34,000 trillion watts of energy emanating from the body in a flash of 1/40th of a billionth of a second to produce that image.

So, in other words, God took the first selfie.

Wow,

and

at that,

it left an imprint?

That is the moment

of Jesus' physical, bodily resurrection Sunday morning, April 5th, AD 33.

It's at that moment.

And then it's the fall-through theory that the sheet, essentially the body flashes alive, and the sheet falls through, and Jesus is up.

He's walking physically.

So

they have checked for all other kinds of paint and everything.

Piggyl.

And go ahead.

you would appreciate this as an artist.

When you look at the findings of the STERP team, after three years, they did their research over five days, 1978.

They took three years to publish their findings.

I mean, this was very well organized.

We'll talk about the 3D encoding in the image as well from the VP8 analyzer.

We'll talk about that.

That's fascinating.

But when the STERP team came out and they published their findings, they said, we cannot explain it.

And listen carefully.

No pigment, no dye, no paint, no oxidization from old paint, nothing.

Barry Schwartz and all of the, and again, these are not theologians, Glenn.

I can't make this more clear.

These are people from Sandia Labs, the Air Force Academy, physics professors.

They went in and were having drinks in the lobby joking about.

I remember it was John Jackson who said, give me 15 minutes with the shroud and the scientific method, and I'll prove it's a hoax.

And he died, he's become the great defender of the shroud in all of his publications.

And so, no pigment, no dye, no paint.

The best scientists from the jet propulsion labs cannot tell us how there's an image in that cloth.

And it's superficial.

This is the fascinating thing.

And it took me a while in my research to really, truly appreciate this.

The image is razor thin.

The blood, when we were walking through the shroud, we can see the blood everywhere.

The blood saturates the linen.

And there's around 70 to 150 fibers in a single linen thread, okay?

The image is only on two to three of those fibers superficially.

So it doesn't go all the way through.

The image doesn't go all the way through.

It's there superficially.

And it's inside two to three of these fibers that make up the single thread of the weave.

Wow.

And then the blood goes through all soaks through all of it.

So the blood came first.

We know that.

Jesus is there.

He's wrapped.

His body is bloodied.

And again, in Jewish burial traditions, when someone died, you buried them that day before nightfall.

Remember, they're wanting to bury him before Passover.

The Sabbath is coming.

They have to quickly bury him.

They quickly ask Pilate for the body of Jesus.

He's wrapped, and yet there's no decomposition on the body either.

And you ask, and here we have this beautiful replica of the crucified man of the shroud.

And you say, Jeremiah, why does it look like his knees are bent and his head is like on a pillow?

Well, his body is in a state of rigor mortis.

We know rigor mortis lasts 40 hours, some say longer.

Based on my scholarship, Jesus is in the tomb no more than 39 hours.

So

he is stiff, stiff, hard, and hard.

Yep.

And then the body starts to relax after 40 hours?

After 40 hours, but

not just to relax, that's when bodily fluids begin to relax.

You start to.

Yeah, okay.

So we know that his legs were up because you don't see the back of his knees.

Yep, you only see the right side more clearly than the left.

And again, not a single bone on his body is broken.

And again, that goes against Roman crucifixion.

Most of the time,

they would break the shins.

They would start there.

And we also notice when you look at this, that his body is in this shape.

His arms are elongated.

I don't know if you picked up on that with your artist's acumen, that his arms seem almost too long.

Do you know why, Glenn?

His shoulders have been dislocated.

He's asked to carry the petibulum.

That's the cross beam.

So I want to correct people.

He's not carrying the whole cross.

That would have been like 300 pounds.

He's asked to carry the petibulum, just the cross beam.

And he might have been chained to other criminals in this processional processional that goes outside of the city.

He falls, he collapses, and it leads to more abrasions on his shoulders.

And so, on the back, do you see all the abrasions?

Those are from when not just he falls and he drops the cross beam, that's when we believe that his shoulders were dislocated.

He hangs on the cross, his shoulders are dislocated, and that's why his arms are elongated and rigamortis.

Oh my gosh.

Let's talk about what we can learn about crucifixion from this.

Was it normal to be this brutalized?

No, this is fascinating.

And it's kind of odd to say that

I'm an expert in Roman crucifixion, but that's one of my areas of expertise.

And Jesus dies in a particularly demonic, shameful, heinous way.

He's brutalized as he goes to the cross.

And we've brought some crucifixion elements here.

Let's bring these up here.

So you have

the scourge, the spear, the nails, the crown of thorns, which is be careful because these are just horrifying.

These are actual Bethlehem thorns, and they're like nails.

So often, we'll start with the crown of thorns.

When we look at art, we believe that Jesus is wearing some kind of sweatband or wreath.

Yeah, right.

You know, a cutesy little crown of a little

laurel.

We know that he's being mocked.

We know that as he's led to the cross, he's completely naked.

But he's not totally naked because they fashion a crown of thorns, really though, a helmet of thorns, a dome, a cap of thorns, and that is pressed into his head.

And we know that there are 30 to 50 puncture wounds.

in the head of the crucified man.

We know of only one person from antiquity.

We have thousands of crucifixion victims explained, both in the the Roman annals, Tacitus, others, Suetonius.

We have no mention of a crown of thorns except in one particular case, the man who said, I am the king of the Jews.

And they fashion a crown of thorns, a helmet of thorns.

And one of the applications for me is we live in a time of such despair, such agony, so much anxiety.

And we often wonder if God really loves us.

When I think about the crown of thorns, when I stare at this glen and I think about it, I think about that passage that Saul of Tarsus wrote in Romans 5, 8, but God demonstrated his love for us and that while we were his enemies, we were his sinners, he sent Christ to die for us.

And that reminds me of the lengths that Jesus would go.

What we see in the crown of thorns is love in its most radical form.

And it gives us pause and we say, well, that should have been my head in that crown.

It should have been my hands in these nails.

It should have been my back with the philagrum.

I don't think people understand the crown of thorns until you see

the thorns that came from Jerusalem at the time.

Correct.

It is

horrifying.

Absolutely horrifying.

This is what was used against him.

Was it this short?

Were they that close?

Yes.

And these men were experts in execution.

They were men.

We know that there were at least, there were probably two whipping Jesus.

We have counted 372 wounds from scourge marks.

Now, you can see that has three cords on it and two lead balls.

Some have thought bone.

So with each lash, you're getting six lashes in when you count up the balls.

We know that he's lashed 372 times, but keep in mind, we don't have the lateral sides on the image.

This is a TD image.

Right.

So I estimate...

There's got to be, there's got to be more on the sides than there were in the

700 wounds that Jesus, the man of the shroud, endured for us from that phlagrum, the scourging.

And so that was particularly heinous.

And that happened on other crucifixions.

Absolutely.

It did.

It did happen.

Often crucifixion victims wouldn't even make it to the cross.

But again, it seemed that Jesus was brutalized under the reign of Pontius Pilate, who would ultimately get on the outs with Tiberius and die by suicide, interestingly enough.

And so that's the phlagrum.

Glenn, I want you to hold the nails.

nails we know a lot about nails from the archaeology

these are

just horrifying

and most people have the nails going through his palm but it would have ripped right through that weight would have ripped right through the lacerated right through so it was actually put perfectly wrist again this this wasn't the first rodeo as we say in texas of these executioners they know that jesus they knew exactly where to puncture at the exact angle through the wrists into the hands, and it would foist his body weight of around 170 to 180 pounds.

And they crushed his wrist when they did that, and they nail him to the cross.

Keep in mind, his shoulders are already separated.

The nails go through the wrists.

It's the same Greek word for you scripture scholars out there, hands and wrists in the Greek Bible.

And we see the nails are nine inches long.

Now, what's fascinating is crucifixion nails become something like a rabbit's foot then in Judaism of the late Second Temple period.

We actually have a Roman crucifixion victim under the reign of Pontius Pilate who is crucified and he's given proper burial.

Notice I said the word proper, not honorable.

So he's a crucified victim, the worst way to die ever in the ancient world, and yet he's still allowed to be buried.

And you can look this up.

It's the heel bone of Yehohanan because this heel bone still has the crucifixion nail in it.

He had to be buried before nightfall, and this is again in the 20s AD under the reign of Pontius Pilate.

How do we know his name?

Because of second burial.

A year after a Jewish man died, his bones would be collected and then oscillagium, a process of second burial, would take place.

So that's like when you go to the land of Israel where I know you've been and thank you for your support of Israel.

You see all the bone boxes.

Those are ossuaries.

Those ossuaries are where you would put the bones that were collected one year after the date of death, usually by the eldest son.

And so we have this great artifact where we see crucifixion nails in a crucified victim because the skeptical scholars will claim that crucified victims were not given proper burials.

So this isn't Jesus.

This is a hoax.

Well, wait, wait, wait.

But isn't that true to the fact, I mean, crucifixion was not only supposed to be horrifying for the person.

We always see the crosses as these big, tall things.

They were actually closer to the ground.

Yeah.

So when you're walking into the city, city, you're like, I don't want to do that.

Yes.

Right?

And

so, and they were left there for a while for the dogs to eat.

Correct.

Correct?

In some cases.

In some cases, but not all cases.

And again, remember, yeah, this is not a monolith.

The Romans were excellent politicians.

And what do we, again, everything I say is based on the evidence.

What do we know in non-wartime?

The only time that we have, we know that Philo, a Jewish historian in Alexandria, Josephus, we know the biblical records tell us.

So there's six amazing sources right there that Jews were allowed to bury their dead properly, even crucified victims.

The only time that we know of where Jews were not allowed to bury their dead was during the revolt of 66 to 70 AD.

My dear friend and colleague at Christian Thinkers Craig Evans has done phenomenal groundbreaking work on this, that only in only in wartime were Jews not allowed to bury the dead and the dead of their crucified victims.

Jesus dies in AD 33.

There's no war going on.

And the Jews were fine to give back the body.

They were politicians.

Yeah, go do that tradition.

We're still in power.

Right now, the average American is still finding it difficult to pay expenses every single month.

In more cases, there is nothing less to cover any extras that you might have.

Most aren't getting a big raise.

And with expenses being up so high, it can be very hard to manage without grabbing for credit cards.

And if you're somebody who's done that and you're a homeowner, I understand it.

You know, you're never going to get out from underneath that eight ball.

At least that's what it'll feel like.

But I want you to take 10 minutes and give a call to American Financing.

If you're constantly carrying a credit card balance each and every month with the interest rates in the 20s, some places even in the 30s, American Financing can show you how to put your hard-earned equity to work and get you out of debt.

Their salary-based mortgage consultants are saving their customers an average of $800 a month.

That could be you.

That's a $10,000 raise.

That'll help ease things.

I want you right now to know there's no upfront fees it won't cost you anything but you should call now you could be saving every month call american financing 800-906-2440 800-906-2440 or go to americanfinancing.net

Say hello to the next generation of Zendesk AI agents built to deliver resolutions for everyone.

Zendesk AI agents easily deploy in minutes, not months, to resolve 30% of customer and employee interactions on day one, quickly turning monotonous tasks into autonomous solutions.

Loved by over 10,000 companies, Zendesk AI makes service teams more efficient, businesses run better, and your customers happier.

That's the Zendesk AI effect.

Find out more at Zendesk.com.

So

they have nails in his wrists through his hands.

Correct.

His shoulders have been dislocated.

They nail his feet to the cross.

One nail both feet.

And the only way he can breathe is if he's pushing himself up, right?

Because everything's collapsing on him.

And he has no strength in his arms to pull himself up.

So the pain of pushing himself up must have been.

And can you imagine?

I wouldn't be able to speak.

I wouldn't be able to.

You fight for every breath.

Yes.

As a pastor, I've been with people when they are fighting for every breath at the end of their life.

And I think about Jesus.

And Jesus is able to utter certain words even from the cross.

And what is he quoting?

He's quoting that messianic psalm constantly, Psalm 22.

He's just quoting it verbatim.

Jesus loved the Psalms.

He quotes them often.

He quotes from Psalm 1:10.

He quotes from Daniel 7:13 and following.

In Mark 8:31, Mark 9:31, Mark 10, 33 and 34.

He constantly reminds his audience, even though they're confused, the Son of Man must die and rise again three days later.

He must do it.

Luke's gospel, the great historian Luke, the doctor who gives us his wonderful Luke Acts sequel in the scriptures.

He tells us that Jesus set his face like flint to the cross.

So this was no accident.

This was no mess up.

Jesus intended to go to the cross for us.

Didn't want to.

Didn't want to.

Ask the Father if it could be held back in any way, which again shows us that he can empathize with us even in our weaknesses.

So he's buried.

No, wait, so he dies.

Yes.

He dies on the cross.

That is to scale a Roman lance three and a half centimeters wide.

And remember, they're coming around, you know, the Jewish sensitivities, Sabbath, and Passover.

So this was a high holy day.

We got to make sure these dudes are dead.

So

they break the bones of the criminals onto the right and the left of Jesus of Nazareth, but they come and Jesus is already dead.

And just to make sure they penetrate, and again, these guys knew what they were doing.

They use this lance and they penetrate right between the fifth and sixth rib three and a half inches into the heart and the scriptures tell us that blood and water come out and again how would first they know this if they were making up forged documents but secondly what do we see as we have already suggested on the shroud we see that three and a half centimeter wound in the side of the man of the shroud.

It's just

above the patch

in the left there.

Do you see it there, Glenn?

And you see the very dark blood.

That is the lance wound post-mortem he was already dead

and I would like to mention if I may Glenn I want you to hold a temple tax coin this at this moment I think it's important to for you to handle this this is extremely rare that's one shekel 14 grams Tyrian silver that's authentic that is the currency that you had to pay for the temple tax at the Jewish temple and so there's a miracle in the Gospels where Jesus says to Peter, open that fish's mouth, and it's the temple tax is there in his mouth.

But even more so, Judas Iscariot has paid 30 of those to betray Jesus, the price of a slave.

That's authentic.

We know from the writing on it, it's from the 20s when Pilate is in power.

You can imagine what that must have felt like to Judas seeing this play out.

Yeah.

I have one of these next to my microphone.

Wow.

And I've had it for 20 years.

I went over to Jerusalem and I bought one just like this because I wanted something that Judas could have held.

Yes.

And it reminds me, don't sell out.

That's right.

Don't ever, ever, ever sell out.

And you don't.

You're amazing, Glenn.

Well, it's a

remarkable reminder.

I kind of feel bad for Judas, you know, because it had to happen.

Christ knew it was going to happen.

It had to happen.

Absolutely.

And,

you know, if you just look at him as a bad guy,

but

he knew as soon as he did it, I mean, he ends up killing himself.

That's right.

He knew.

That's right.

And except for God's grace, there go every one of us.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It would have been an interesting meeting of Christ on that

day.

Exactly.

So that's the Tyrian silver coin.

And Jesus then is asked, according to the Mishnah, which is a second century AD Jewish source of how to live out the Jewish law, Talmud, its late Second Temple Judaism, if the Sanhedrin condemned a Roman criminal, or excuse me, a criminal to death, even under Roman law,

it was on the Sanhedrin to bury the crucified criminal.

What do we see in the juridical procedure in the Gospels?

We see that Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea, two members of the Sanhedrin, take control of burying Jesus' body.

That is consistent with what the Mishnah says.

And so they don't have much time, and they take Jesus to a new tomb in a quarry, a rock-hewn tomb.

So this is not a tomb that has been used

before by a family.

It's a brand new tomb.

We have this 3D printed model right here.

This is fascinating.

This is so fun, too.

So, Glenn, I've had the opportunity to film at all the resurrection sites of Jesus and Lazarus in Jerusalem.

I've been in more tombs than probably anyone you've ever interviewed.

Most Jewish tombs look like our hand.

You walk into the tomb, and you usually walk down the steps.

It's usually just a meter square because not a lot of rich people got buried in the land of Israel.

And so when you see this large circular stone, circular stone,

that's a crucial key.

This is a rich person's tomb.

They've got a big stone because 80% of the tombs that we've discovered in the land of Israel are just a meter square.

They're small.

But when you would get in, inside your palm of your hand, that's where you would pray.

You would mourn the dead.

And then the finger slots are niches for the bodies to be buried.

So the Jewish family burial would would happen.

There's only one niche in this.

Right.

There would have been more originally.

Joseph would have had more.

I have stood, and I am convinced based on the archaeology, based on all of the evidence, and I write about this in my book, Body of Proof, at length, that the edicule inside of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is in fact the place where Joseph was buried.

My sticking point on this

is the mother of Constantine, who's like, Yes, that is the place.

Yeah, I mean, he picked out the church too at Bethlehem the church of the nativity so you know

what were her credentials absolutely so but you've I've been to both places I've been to the the garden tomb and to the the place that she says

and

I

I mean I have no idea right

tell me the evidence that that is the tomb this is really fascinating I want you to hold another coin okay because this will answer your question.

Okay.

Coins were like the social media of the first and second century.

They would tell you who was in power, what the name of the city is, and

what cultural sensitivities you needed to be aware of.

After three Jewish revolts in the first and early second century, Hadrian has had enough of the Jews.

And he demolishes Israel and, in particular, Jerusalem, after the third revolt, 132 to 135 AD, the Bar Kokhba, the Son of the Star revolt.

This is 60 years after the Temple's gone.

Exactly.

And Hadrian sees Christianity as just a Jewish sect.

He wants them all dead.

He renames the land of Israel Palestine.

It is the reason I never use the word Palestine when referring to the Holy Land, the Jewish people, their land.

Hadrian originates the term Palestine, and he does so very pejoratively.

I was actually flying in an airline.

This is anecdotal recently.

I fly with American Airlines, but I was on one of their one world world partners.

I'm flying over the land of Israel.

It doesn't say any Israel anywhere on the flight map.

It says Palestinian territories as an echo back to Hadrian.

So Hadrian demolishes Israel.

He renames Jerusalem Aliyah Capitolina.

And that bronze coin that you hold in your hand from the second century says it's stamped with Hadrian Eliyah Capitolina.

This is the new name for the city of Jerusalem.

When Hadrian demolishes and raises Jerusalem in the second century, he hears about this venerated site of this dying and rising God, and he absolutely demolishes it.

He puts in a temple to the god Venus, and then where Jesus is crucified, another venerated object to Jupiter, and Hadrian unwittingly becomes the protector of this sacred Christian site of Jesus' death by Roman crucifixion and his resurrection.

Because people didn't move around a lot, Glenn.

If you would have lived in the first and second century, you would have said, oh, you would have taken your kids there and said, hey, this is where he died.

You know, ignore the Venus thing.

It's like our liberals today who will demolish our history.

You know, this is where it happened.

This is where Gettysburg happens.

You know, we can call it whatever we want now, but this is where Jesus died.

This is where he was raised from the dead.

And so that's 200 years before Helena.

The archaeology is that good.

And then when you see in 2017, the tomb is open for a remodeling, really a refurbishment is what we should call it because it's falling apart.

And the limestone is all first century.

And so it's a rock quarry.

And I have filmed in the very edicule.

And I know that everything seems wrong about the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

It seems like it's outside the city.

Well, Agrippa expanded the city walls in 44.

When's Jesus crucified?

33.

So you're following with me, the archaeology.

And I love a word about the Garden Tomb.

I love it.

Anytime I lead tours, it's peaceful.

We take communion there.

It's fabulous.

But even the the director of the Garden Tomb knows that that's not the historical site.

Golgotha, place of the skull.

Yes.

That's another thing about the Garden Tomb.

It looks

like a skull right there above the bus stop.

It does.

Yeah.

But that's not.

That's not.

That's not where he was.

Yeah.

It's too far away.

It's too early.

The tomb, specifically, I should mention, the tomb is about 700 years earlier than the time of Jesus.

And so it's much too old to be Jesus' tomb.

We know that to be true based, again, on the archaeology.

I always, I've,

I think science and God go hand in hand.

God's got to be the greatest scientist and mathematician of all time.

Yes.

I mean, everything is math.

Everything is science, you know?

And I don't believe that he...

He works outside of that.

He can't or the whole thing would collapse.

You know what I mean?

He created the rules.

He plays within the rules.

if he's resurrecting and he and he there is energy that's coming in like that you would think that there would be the flash it would leave evidence yeah so this isn't a miracle as much as it is just a marker of god that's right doing something that's right scientifically right

exactly so this isn't This is not something that

God

did so we'd have faith.

This is just one piece of evidence that, yeah, it happened.

That's right.

But it's not.

Do you see this as a

faith thing or just

evidence that it happened?

That's such a great question.

I see this as a living gospel.

Faith is always defined by its object.

We don't have faith in faith.

We have faith based on evidence.

And so I see it as yet another evidential layer of the greatest event of human history, Jesus' death and resurrection on our behalf on the cross.

So I see it as just another layer of very important evidence.

It's the only historical evidence we have of the resurrection outside of the New Testament.

There are several places that have the cross.

Yeah.

We could build a forest of all those relics.

So truly, it's the only, and it doesn't, this is as close as your audience, and I'm so thankful to you doing this in your studio.

This is as close as any of us will ever get to the shroud today.

I've wanted to go to Turin my whole life.

Even this year in the Jubilee, we're not sure if it's even going to be on display.

Some youth locally, it's all up to the Archbishop of Turin.

But I mean, they have the technology to keep it safe.

Was this ever more vibrant than it is now?

We only can speculate.

We don't know that it was ever more vibrant, but we do know that it is degrading based on that waxis.

Okay.

We know that the fibers itself are degrading.

We don't know about the image.

The image has always been faint.

And again, Secondopia didn't even see this till 1898.

1898 is the point at which Secondo Pia, a lawyer, takes a photograph of the shroud and in the negative, he sees it and says, oh my god.

And that kicks off modern science.

But it was in the, it was in the church.

It was in the Turin church, correctly, in 1898.

But it was in a box.

It was on display and he had to build a

scaffolding to take, and it was one of the first photographs ever taken with a flash, with electricity.

The church had no electricity, by the way.

And so he takes it with a flash photography.

The exposure takes hours, literally.

You know, for the benefit of anyone under the age of 30, you know, our phones do not always take pictures.

Right, yeah, yeah.

I mean, he still had a phone, don't get me wrong, but he didn't have a camera.

He didn't take pictures, you had to use cameras, you had to go in the dark room.

He goes, and that kicks off.

So for 125 years now, we've enjoyed modern scientific study of the Shroud, and all of it smacks of authenticity, not forgery.

Glenn, if I'm putting up on your table table right now, all the evidence for and all the evidence against the Shroud of Turin scientifically, there's one shred of evidence against it, the erroneous 1988 carbon dating, and then a absolute deluge of evidence by scientists, not theologians, not pastors, hoping that it's hoping that it's not.

Most pastors and theologians

discredit this.

Right.

And I say to evangelicals who are watching, don't be conditioned as I was to think, oh, this is some Catholic relic.

Read it, study it, read from people like me and Glenn and others who actually look at the science, we look at the reports, we learn from everyone, but we don't let anyone think for us.

I'm a Christian thinker, and so I follow the evidence where it leads.

And, you know, too bad I was conditioned in England to not believe in it either.

I've now become

Catholics, I mean, I grew up Catholic.

I have nothing against Catholics at all.

I love them.

But

you're conditioned to think, oh, it's Catholic.

So

the one thing I was actually given permission to go into

the secret archives.

In the Vatican Library?

In the Vatican Library.

So I went in with the chief theologian and the head of the

archives.

I was in there for like three hours.

Wow.

It is, I mean, I don't know how I got.

the invite.

I honestly don't.

The theologian who is the one who consults with the Pope and says, okay, theologically, he was with me in the first room we were in.

I said, what is this room?

And he said, I don't know.

I've never been allowed to pass that door.

But the things that I saw, the things that they have,

you know, the Vatican Museum is just the surface of what they have.

I'm walking in a hallway and the head of the Vatican Archives says, oh, we passed something, you know, past this big box.

And he's like, oh, wait.

Turns around, goes back and says, you'll love this, opens the doors, and it is the parchment with all of the wax seals saying that King Henry VIII

should be, you know, they should be pardoned in, you know, his marriage annulled.

Wow.

And that was just in a hallway that they were like, ah.

At blinds.com, it's not just about window treatments.

It's about you, your style, your space, your way.

Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the confidence of knowing it's done right.

From free expert design help to our 100% satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is made to fit your life and your windows.

Because at blinds.com, the only thing we treat better than windows is you.

Visit blinds.com now for up to 50% off with minimum purchase plus a professional measure at no cost.

Rules and restrictions apply.

Just because they have,

just because they have it, doesn't make it Catholic.

Right.

You know what I mean?

And, but you've just explained one of the big pitfalls that many, many Christians who hear about the Shroud of Turin, they don't seem to care.

They think, oh, that's a relic, that's not science, that's not real, there's no evidence.

And when I have yet to be with someone and give all the evidence to where it doesn't immediately invite them into the mystery of the Shroud, because when you get beyond the mystery, you hear the message of the Shroud, which is God and His love for us in the most radical ways.

You, I mean, you gave me this statue of the crucified man

and

you now, AI, you've done it, and take that face and make it real.

Right.

We're in this place now where things are going to get really weird.

Yeah.

And now you can do that, but then you could put all of the words of Christ into a chat

and you can make that man speak to you,

which would be freaky.

What are your thoughts on

any of that?

Have you thought of that at all?

I have.

Where we get verified information from becomes crucial.

I wrote an op-ed a few years ago when AI was just coming on the scene, and the title of it was My Daughter Prayed to Alexis, because

it was just a slip.

We have Alexis in our house, and instead of saying, Dear Jesus, she said, Dear Alexis.

But I remember Googling white American couple at the time in this Fox News op-ed.

And

what the learning machine sent back to me was everything but a white American couple.

And this is what Google told me to look at.

And so ever since then, I've been saying to my students, to those where I speak, where I publish, we have to be so careful where we get verified information.

The great thing, why I'm not too concerned about it, is we have an embarrassment of riches of the earliest words of Christ as codified in the New Testament scriptures.

You can't change that.

And what I love about evidence is...

Well, you can if everything is digitized.

That's right.

But again, when we come back to these sources, this is where it's on us to be educated.

And this is why I'm a belay subscriber, Glenn.

This is why where I get information is paramount for me and my wife and our five children.

I want to not be conditioned by society.

I want to be able to understand what I believe and why I believe it based on evidence.

Because the same follow the science crowd has tried to suppress this science, which is ironic.

Yeah.

It It is interesting, you know, the Big Bang.

Yes.

That was originally a Christian

idea.

Christians were like, okay, well, I don't know exactly how he creates, but the Big Bang.

And the scientists originally were against that because they said, yeah, but what lit the match?

Yeah,

they thought the universe had always been in existence.

Correct.

And your show with Hugh Ross was excellent, by the way.

That's fantastic.

Phenomenal.

Thank you.

Yeah.

So where does this go now?

So Shroud of Turn research has never been taken more seriously by scholars.

And my prayer is that thanks to voices like yours joining in, we can make this where the world will have access to this information.

Because when I look deeply at the evidence of the shroud, I see God's plan for me.

I see that it really matters.

And what I want to talk about, Glenn, is let's say it's real.

What are the implications?

What are they?

What are the implications that we have the exact moment of Jesus' resurrection caught in the image of the man of the shroud.

It makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up because the Gospels don't tell us what happened at the moment of resurrection.

All the disciples are running scared.

Only John and the women, who are mentioned in Luke 8, stay behind to actually be with Jesus.

They know something weird is happening at the tomb because normally soldiers were not outside the tomb stationed there.

And yet we don't know what happens.

We know that there are second and third century writings that talk about what happened at the tomb.

Those are like Christian comics.

But when we see if this is indeed, and I believe it is, the shroud of Jesus, unequivocally based on the evidence, this tells me that this is God's answer to suffering.

This tells me

I have hope.

That Greek word in the New Testament scriptures, el-piece, used a hundred times.

We have a hope that never dies.

Peter says, I have a living hope based, not because I feel like being hopeful today, because, man, I didn't really feel like doing anything today.

I have a living hope because Jesus historically raised from the dead.

So when I see it, I see hope.

And I see God's answer to injustice and the suffering in our world.

There's something happening in the world

right now.

I mean, I think we're seeing evil like we haven't seen in a very long time.

And I honestly, I think we are going to see godlessness.

And the birth of a new God through AI.

Right.

Well said.

And

it's going to control

everything.

And

you can easily see how the book of Revelation,

its prophecies,

are possibly just over the horizon.

Possibly.

I remember reading when I was young going,

that will never happen.

And here it is.

And here it is.

But as darkness grows, Shadows can only grow darker if the light is stronger.

So there is something else that God is doing, and I think we are seeing that.

I think that there are things happening all over the world.

I mean, the stuff that's happening in Jerusalem now, where they've just found the temple, walk the road,

and the things that

I believe they're on the road of discovering

are

astonishing, right?

Astonishing.

And

will,

for a lot of people who need that kind of stuff,

it's going to be a choice.

Now,

now do you believe?

Now do you believe?

When is enough?

When, what is it?

Yeah.

And there will be those who will always reject it.

But are you seeing the same thing?

Are you feeling the same thing that there is a

There is a new and I think different and deeper kind of spiritual awakening than than maybe man has had.

Absolutely.

I wrote a book called Unimaginable because without Christianity, without God, we destroy ourselves.

It becomes law of the jungle.

And I think that we have so cannibalized ourselves through the godlessness that we see in the world, people are starting to seek God again.

And the scriptures promise in Romans chapter 1 that when you seek after God, he will reveal himself to you.

I have to share one thing with you about light.

You made me just remember it.

In the photographic negative of Jesus at the moment of resurrection, guess what color Jesus's hair is?

Yes, when that is now in its negative, but in the positive, his hair is white.

What does the book of Revelation say about Jesus when he returns?

His hair is white like wool.

So we're seeing Jesus at the moment of resurrection.

Remember when he transfigures himself in Mark 9, the disciples don't want to leave.

In fact, his body was likely still glistening after the fact.

They don't want to leave that moment.

There was something beautiful about seeing Jesus.

Remember, the Revelation explains that someday there'll be no need of the sun because light will emanate from Christ.

And so I think that's consistent with the 34,000 trillion watts that it took in 1 40th of a billionth of a second electromagnetic light.

to create this energy that created this impression.

But I thought you might like that.

That's a new finding that his hair is white like wool, just like in Revelation.

How did we know that?

Based on the, when you put the negative, when you look at the negative, you're seeing the man in the positive.

And his hair is white.

That's right.

Yes.

So when you look at the light shades, that's what you made me think of it when you said, oh, I'm not sure.

Oh, my gosh, you're right.

And I want to give credit to one of our students for that.

That's remarkable.

Well, when you take this on the road, I would love to help you.

I think this is something.

getting the, I know this is a copy of it, but it is an exact copy.

Exactly, it's the closest we'll ever get to.

Yeah.

And

as somebody who's always wanted to see it, and

I mean, I was hoping that maybe my wife and children would go with me to Turin this year,

but I feel like this is, I mean, I'll

never get this close.

Yeah, you'll never get this close to it.

And it is remarkable to see it.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Glenn.

You bet.

Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.