Ep 228 | Max Lucado’s End Times Survival Guide | The Glenn Beck Podcast

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Four out of ten Americans believe we are living in the end times.

Is their belief justified?

I'm one of those four.

Is there something extra unique about our time that warrants the extra attention being paid to ancient prophecies?

My next guest describes the days that we live in as the fourth quarter.

If he's right,

how do we prepare?

What happens next?

To answer these questions, I brought in one of my dear friends, the kindest, gentlest man I could find to guide us through the end of the world with love, truth, and maybe even something

to look forward to.

Welcome, best-selling author and pastor, Max Lucato.

Max, as always, good to have you.

Thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

Glenn, it's a great honor, and I hold you in such high regard.

Thanks for letting me be a part of this special conversation.

Yeah.

Now,

you are known as being a very positive guy, very happy.

I don't think

you have really

talked in depth about end of days.

And you just wrote a book on what's next.

And

it's all about end of days.

Why now?

You're right.

I have never tackled this topic,

but I have in the last two or three years for two big reasons.

Number one, I'm getting old.

And so I know that there's a lot more sand in the bottom of my hourglass than on the top.

And Glenn, I'm just genuinely curious about what's about to happen.

I'm about to turn 70.

I'm in good health, Lord willing.

I have a lot of years left, but I know the clock is ticking.

And

I just want to know.

I just want to know.

And I'm so excited about what I'm discovering.

And then number two, not only am I curious about the future.

I'm really concerned about the present.

These are really severe times in which we find ourselves.

We've got conflicts, almost too many to count, but major conflicts involving Israel and that's really a

key point for those of us who interpret the present through the scripture.

But then also we've got massive, a pandemic of anxiety and concern and just a sense of division and unsettledness.

Now I know we've seen that all through history and I know that people will quickly say, yeah, that's just been a part of time.

And yet, I hope we'll have the opportunity to discuss that there are certain things about this particular era in history that cause a person to perk up and look up and have hope.

But I'm still optimistic.

I'm still highly optimistic.

Right.

So, I think, Max, you and I are coming from the same time, by the way.

Read your book.

It's really fabulous.

I think we come from exactly the same place,

which is

I hope this isn't the time.

I don't want to go through what we have to go through.

And I don't want my kids to go through it, but it actually kind of gives me some hope because there's more certainty.

You know what I mean?

There's a clock.

There's more certainty.

And in the end, maybe we get to see Christ here, not just up there.

Absolutely.

In the the book, I unpack what I call heaven's timeline.

And I do not like the idea of living with a worldview that says there is no timeline, there's nobody in charge, no sovereign hand directing the flow of history.

And while we cannot know every detail about the future, and while scripture is very careful to instruct us that nobody knows the day that Christ will come, We are given specific seasons and signs.

We pay attention to those seasons.

We pay attention to those signs.

And like you, Glenn, I find assurance in the fact that we have a heavenly father who has promised to guide us through the timeline of history and also promised to establish an age in which everything will be set right.

Everything will be set right.

I do think we have to be careful.

Some people claim like they know even more than Christ does, but we can know what we can know know and find hope in that.

Yeah, it always puzzles me.

You know, I know nobody's going to know the date and the time.

However,

maybe

the generation that goes through it might know the general area on when it's coming, because why would he give us so many signs to look for?

You know?

You may not know the date, but you're going to know the general movement, are you not?

Absolutely.

And it seems to me that the most profound prophecy in all of the Bible, except for the one that Jesus would, he himself be raised from the dead, is that promise that God would regather the children of Israel to their homeland.

And that happened in May 1948.

And so I find myself agreeing with those scholars who say, you know, a page of prophetic history turned in May of 1948 because several of the prophecies have to,

Israel has to be returned to its homeland in order for those prophecies to be fulfilled.

And there are multiple prophecies in the Old Testament that say that God will regather his people to their homeland.

Now, I can imagine for nearly 2,000 years, serious students of the Bible would read those prophecies and say, well, that could never happen.

But then it did happen.

It did happen.

And so now that that has happened, that to me signals that we're in a unique season,

an era that should cause us to keep our eyes up, our Bibles open, our hearts open, and

our hope opened.

It's going to get crazy before the end, but we're getting close to the end.

So

what are the signs that

you say we should be looking for, or the ones that you

say,

I think

this one, this one, and this one are happening right now?

Yeah, well, the one we just mentioned is absolutely essential.

It's often called the super sign, and that is the regathering of the children of Israel to the land of Israel.

It's the only nation.

that has ever been banished from its homeland for nearly 2,000 years and then restored or regathered to its homeland.

And this prophecy is found multiple times in the Bible.

Specifically, I'm looking here in my notes from Ezekiel, 650 years before Christ.

God said to the Israelites, I will take you from the nations and I will gather you from all the lands and I will bring you into your own land.

And then here's a prophecy, 740 years before Christ.

He will raise up a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel.

He will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth.

That's through Isaiah.

Now, May 14th, 1948 saw that page turn in the calendar of prophetic history and circumstances

changed.

It's still happening.

People are still,

the gathering of Israel is still happening at a greater pace than any other time.

More than ever.

You're absolutely right.

And in fact, I read from the Jerusalem Post, it's been about several months, a quote that said that more people are returning to Israel now than in the history of Israel.

And then you overlay that with prophecies from the Old Testament that in the end days, Israel, now a regathered nation, would be surrounded, encircled by its enemies.

And that's a part of the news every day, how Israel is increasingly encircled by enemies.

In fact, I think it was the head of Hezbollah or Hamas that said, Our encirclement of Israel is almost complete in the last few weeks.

That was their exact language.

My goodness,

I didn't see that, but it's enough to cause us to really pay attention.

Right.

So

the

gathering happens.

We know that wars and rumors of war, and boy, oh boy, are we on the ⁇ we're in the rumor of war right now, but could we not see

a war of biblical proportions, biblical proportions?

It could happen in a heartbeat, Lynn.

I don't know what else we would need to convince us.

All we're waiting on is somebody to press the wrong red button on the wrong side of the border.

And things things are going to go sideways really, really quickly.

And that's why I think it's so important for us to be looking at this, not just from a geopolitical viewpoint, but a spiritual viewpoint, as the Bible gives us this timeline to help us understand how to interpret these difficult times in which we find ourselves.

So

you start with the biblical covenants.

So why don't we go over that?

Because you do a great job of covering all the covenants and why they matter.

Can you share the basic rundown?

I can.

Thank you again, Glenn, because most, many people, we have interviews and they have no clue what a covenant is.

I think those covenants are so essential, primarily because God governs history through covenants.

He governs history through covenants.

And he made a covenant with Adam and Eve.

Now, Adam and Eve did not keep that covenant, but that does not mean God has broken it.

The fancy term for this is the Edenic covenant or the Garden of Eden covenant in which God promised that Adam and Eve and all their children would reign and rule with him in a perfect paradise, in perfected bodies, in perfect relationships with each other and with him.

So that's a promise God has made.

Now, the fact that Adam and Eve did not keep it does not mean God has abandoned it.

That's why the book of Genesis is really the most prophetic book in the Bible.

It gives us a picture of our end.

God knows the end from the beginning.

So if you want to know the end, go to the beginning.

That's promised covenant number one.

Covenant number two is given to Abram.

Later, his name changed to Abraham.

And it's a covenant that includes seed and soil.

He would bless the seed.

of Abraham.

And boy, did he ever, thanks to the seed of Abraham, we have the Bible, we have Jesus, we have the church, we have faith.

And so he blessed the seed, and he'll continue to do so.

And then soil.

That's what we're talking about now.

He gave a chunk of land.

It's the only country to whom God has ever given land.

He gave soil to Israel.

And then there's a promise God made to David that the decision.

Wait, wait, wait.

Hold on just a second.

Before we leave Abraham, that one is unique, is it not?

Because that is unilateral.

That's God getting up and going, yo, this Abram guy, I really like him.

I'm going to do this.

So there's no performance on that because usually you've got to hold up your side with God.

Right.

Boy, are you nailing it, Glenn?

Absolutely.

In fact, the story of

God confirming this, ratifying this covenant.

by this peculiar practice that existed back in the day of slicing an animal in half and walking between that animal.

That was a way of saying, I will keep this promise.

And if I don't, may what has happened to this animal happen to me.

Now, Abram did not walk through the animal.

Only God did.

The flaming torch and the smoking pot.

It's a beautiful story.

And so God has made a unilateral covenant with Israel that he will keep this.

I may not get it.

I may not like it.

But it's there.

And I believe in the end of the end days and what we call the tribulation, that Israel will have a specific role.

They'll be their finest hour, but God will keep that covenant.

Okay, so now the David covenant.

The Davidic covenant God made to David, and that is a descendant of his, would sit on David's throne in Jerusalem and reign over Israel.

And the angel Gabriel referred to this covenant when he told Mary that she would give birth to the Messiah.

So we know exactly that this covenant will be fulfilled at some point through Jesus.

He will sit in Jerusalem, I believe a physical Jerusalem, and reign over the earth.

I believe that'll be fulfilled.

And what we see on the timeline is the

reign of Christ.

And then there's lastly a covenant with the children of Israel made two times, one through Jeremiah and one through Ezekiel, that the children children of Israel, the Jews themselves, would experience a spiritual revival, a revival in which would be so great they wouldn't even have to say to one another, hey, you need to know the Lord, for all shall know me, God says.

And so that's in the that's in the bank as well.

All of these, as you pointed out, are unilateral covenants that God has made, and he is guiding history according to these covenants.

So is the last one, do you think, fulfilled?

No, sir.

I don't think so, but I think it will be.

Forever as a believer, as a Christian, I would read that covenant and say, oh, God fulfilled that in me.

But then as a closer reading of those covenants, God is speaking to the Jewish people.

And so there is a Jewish revival.

I believe it will be a return to Christ.

in the last of the last days during the time of the tribulation.

Okay.

So

people who don't know tribulation don't know about the rapture, et cetera, et cetera.

Let's get there.

But tell me what we are to look for as signs before we get there.

Yeah,

before we get there.

And by the way, many people don't understand this language that we're using today.

And that's why I wrote this book.

I'm hoping it's an End Times 101.

If somebody wants just an overview of these important seasons,

this might be a go-to book for you.

The signs that will come, now that the super sign has happened, in the end times after the super sign or after Israel is restored to its land, there will be, according to Jesus, deception, there will be economic turmoil, there will be seismic activity.

There will be persecution of Christians.

More Christians right now are being martyred or persecuted for their faith in any time of history.

There will be complete political conflict.

There will be famines, pestilences, pandemics, ethnic conflicts, false prophets, fearful signs, wars, and rumors of wars.

Now, that's a collection of the teachings of Jesus in what's called the Olivet Discourse or the sermon he gave right before his crucifixion.

Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

When you compile all of those signs, it sounds like the daily news.

Yeah, I was going to say, it's also a combination of everything I read in the paper today.

Yes, sir.

But haven't we had, except for the super sign, haven't we had those same signs before?

I mean, I can't imagine fighting the Nazis not thinking that guy's the Antichrist.

Absolutely.

And I think that is a very, very valid point.

We have seen these signs since Jesus first gave the sermon.

That's why to go back to the super sign makes us say, okay, so we have truly entered into a season of turbulence.

Now, Jesus did say that in the end times, all these signs are the beginning of labor pains.

I've never had a labor pain, but I've watched my wife.

I've watched them.

Labor pains come with increasing intensity and frequency.

And so according to this prophecy, beginning in may 1948 we should see increasing frequency and intensity of these signs as we get closer and closer to the end i do not know the day i do not know the hour but i do think all of these signs are increasing in intensity and frequency we've never seen israel surrounded and and threatened in such a fashion like this as a nation.

It's unlike anything we've ever seen.

And I know people will want to dismiss it, but I'm thinking we've got to be very very careful and pay close attention to what's happening.

Yeah, we've also

seen this kind of evil.

You know,

when the darkness is so strong, when the shadows are so strong, it's only because the light is getting brighter.

And

I...

It's very, very dark what's going on in humanity.

And it's really old pagan rituals from the Bible.

The sacrifice of our children.

I mean, it's bad.

It's bad.

And the questions we're wrestling with, Glenn, I mean, our children are wrestling with gender issues that I never even crossed my mind.

The question of what bathroom, what pronoun to use, these are things that

were unthinkable just a couple of decades ago.

And it's almost like the speed of immorality is increasing.

And the consequence of this is devastating.

Did you know that 22% of teenagers in 2021 literally considered orchestrating their own departures, committing suicide?

22%.

If you see 10 teenagers, that means two out of 10 gave serious thought to just cashing out.

These are tragic times in which we live.

And I cannot help but think that a large reason is that people don't know what's about to happen.

They feel like all of life is what's on a YouTube or what's on their social media page, as opposed to the great and exciting future that God has in store for everybody who would call out to him.

You know,

I think Satan has been trying to win for a very long time, and every time he thinks he's going to win, he's thwarted it.

But it always starts with the killing of

the Jews.

You know, we look at the things and we think this is so unique with this transgender stuff.

It was happening in ancient times, but it also

is the reason why people in Germany started burning books.

And this is a real important point, especially for Christians, and I would love your comment on it.

Back in 1925, the first transgender surgery happened in the Weimar Republic in Berlin.

And they started a sexology university.

And it was all about transgenderism.

It was about gay, lesbian, all of this stuff.

And, you know, the Weimar Republic was very hedonistic, and it started to embrace some of this stuff.

And it was being taught in the schools.

The Christians were so concerned and didn't know what to do, so they reached out to some of the Nazis.

as they were just starting to form.

They knew they would get the books burned.

And so they encouraged them to go into the university to burn to stop this from being taught to their children.

What they didn't know is they gave them an opening.

And I'm so concerned about we don't know history.

We don't know what time we're living in.

And I'm very concerned that

Christians may not follow

Christ

in

these times.

They will want to swing back.

They will want to fight.

And I'm not sure the Lord,

if these are indeed the times,

we only elongate because it's innocent blood that has to be shed.

Correct?

Yes, sir.

Does that make sense to you?

Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense.

And I think the way you're describing it is absolutely accurate.

The transgender question is one that goes right at the

core of whether we trust a good God in the way that he made us.

Did God know what he was doing when he gave us the gender that he gave us?

And if I, at my heart, at my core, say, well, no, he didn't, then everything's up for greps.

But if I say, you know, I believe in a good God and the narrative, the worldview I have of life says that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and he made them male and female, then I'm going to trust him.

I'm going to trust him and I'm going to acknowledge that what he did was right.

So we're getting right at the core of whether we believe that there is a good God, a sovereign God, or not.

And the consequence is the narrative that we have about ourselves.

You know, the narrative is what we say to ourselves and the way we see ourselves.

And if we see ourselves as mistakes or accidents or just a, you know, surprising appearance of flotsome in the universe, no purpose, no plan, well, then we're going to

have a narrative that's so negative about ourselves that no wonder anxiety is off the charts.

But if I can have the narrative embrace the biblical worldview narrative that says there is a good God,

the world is in trouble, but he's still in control and he's going to set everything right and that he loves me, he knows me, he's coming for me.

Well, that's a game changer.

That turns the light off, right?

In the way I live and the way I treat other people.

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Can you talk about the prophecy of Daniel?

It talks about 490 years.

Can you break that down and explain why God stopped the clock at 483?

Boy,

that is a great question.

And I'm going to cheat.

I'm going to make sure that I have my manuscript open here because the book of Daniel is the backbone of Bible prophecy.

And understanding what God said through the angel Gabriel to Daniel as recorded in Daniel chapter 9 is really important.

He gives three promises.

First of all, that a Messiah is on the way.

That's in Daniel chapter 9 and verse 25.

He alludes to a period of time, an appointed leader who will come at the end of a total of 483 years.

These 483 years begin with the construction of Jerusalem during the days of Nehemiah.

So you flip your calendar, 483 years

from the beginning of the construction of the temple in the days of Nehemiah, and he landed the very day that Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the back of a donkey.

It's one of the most compelling prophecies in all of the Bible.

But seven years remain because Gabriel told Daniel that he's going to, at the end of 483 years, I'm sorry, at the end of a total of 483 years,

that there will be an

Antichrist or an evil person.

A tough time is coming, according to Daniel chapter 9 and verse 27.

This is an important prophecy because it alludes for the very first time to a period of seven years as well as an Antichrist or an evil person.

The events that have happened described in verse 29 have have not happened.

We have yet to see a moment in which sacrifices to the temple are disallowed.

There is no temple currently.

And we've yet to see

a seven years that will fulfill these final 490 years.

But I believe those days are coming.

And I believe those days, that seven years, will happen at the end of history.

It's something that's about to happen.

It's called the tribulation.

Was I confusing enough in trying to do that?

No, I thought it was, no,

I think it was great.

Now, on the tribulation, Max,

some people believe it, some people don't.

I personally don't, but I so want to

because that means you're not going through it.

I so want to believe.

So

convince me.

Well, can I zoom out for just a second?

Yes.

And get to the tribulation kind of through the back door.

To me, the big question is, will there really be a thousand-year reign of Christ?

One of the most disputed and discussed passages in all of the Bible is in Revelation chapter 20.

And this is the one in which the seer or the prophet John six times describes and alludes to a thousand-year period of peace and prosperity.

Now, some people read that and say, oh, that's just metaphorical.

That's symbolic of a time that we're in right now.

Others of us have come to believe, no, that's a literal time in which God will actually fulfill that covenant that he set up in the Garden of Eden, a perfect paradise, perfect people in perfect relationship.

Now, I've come to believe that that is a literal promise.

I believe, number one, because of the promises.

Number two, because Satan said, I'm sorry, John says that Satan will be overthrown.

He's not overthrown right now.

I believe in the word-for-word interpretation.

There's a thousand years referred to six times.

I believe those six times.

Curiously, the early church fathers for the first 300 years of the church believed in a literal millennium.

And then lastly, there are two resurrections referred to in Revelation chapter 20 verses 1 through 6.

One of those who die during the tribulation.

and one of the evil people who at the end of the thousand years will be resurrected to be judged.

So if you put a real thousand year reign on your timeline, then you back away from that and something happens that sets up that thousand year reign.

And that's the prior chapters in the book of Revelation, chapters 4 through 19.

And that is describing what I think is the darkest day in all of human history.

It's a time in which the Holy Spirit will lift the church, having raptured the church off the presence of the earth, and the earth will feel the full effect of judgment.

And society will fall into a time of chaos, moral chaos, economic chaos,

the culture, the

climate, everything will just spin out of control.

And the reason for that chaos is because of the rapture.

The church has been raptured, believers are gone.

And what happens to a world when millions, millions, maybe billions of tax-pearing, paying, God-fearing,

hard-working people suddenly disappear?

Well, the consequence will be that chaos, and that will open the door for some ruler, what the Bible calls or who the Bible calls the Antichrist, to step up onto the world stage to negotiate that seven-year peace treaty referred to in the book of Daniel.

Midway through, he will break the treaty, he'll demand to be worshipped, and then things will spiral even further out of control.

So, this is a time in which a person does not want to be on planet Earth.

As I point out in the book, you don't have to be.

You don't have to be.

When a person is a person of faith, God will rescue them, He will come for them, and He will rapture them from the earth before that time of tribulation happens.

So, what should we, how should we prepare?

I have some friends that believe deeply in the in the rapture and

I feel

I worry about it a little bit

because they're only preparing spiritually and this may not be the time or the rapture may not be true.

One of the two could happen

and

they're just now just like,

I'm just working on my relationship with the Lord.

That's good, but it may not be this time

uh so how does somebody prepare not just spiritually but

do you prepare are you prepared for this not being the time max

i i think that is a key and a core question number one i think nobody has it all figured out I have my best thinking hat on.

I've done my hardest work.

I've studied.

I've come to this conclusion.

But I could be missing it.

I could, because I've got a limited three-pound brain

and it has not the capacity that I need to understand all the questions.

So, yes, I am prepared, if need be, to go through the tribulation.

Or not even the tribulation.

I'm a bit of a prepper.

I've even got some food stored.

I've got some gold coins stored.

And if it happens, I'm very confident God is going to get me through it.

I'm very optimistic that I'll be raptured before it happens.

Now,

those of us who, regardless of your interpretation of the timeline, the sequence of events, those of us who believe in Christ, we need to be living with hope and compassion.

Hope, because we know that the greatest days lie ahead and these brief and momentary struggles are not worth comparing with the glory that far outweighs them all.

And then compassion.

Compassion on the world.

No wonder the world sinks.

No wonder people are in such turmoil.

They don't know what we know.

They need to have hope.

We need to be as generous as we can, as benevolent as we can.

Give as much life and love and hope and encouragement as we can.

This is the time for us to be the best Christ followers and hope givers that we can possibly be.

I tell you, I have a hard time

with

compassion at times.

I always come back to it.

But I know a lot of people who are like, you're crazy.

You can't have compassion.

They're my brothers and sisters.

And I know if God is my father and he's your father as well and everybody's father, I can't imagine my kids coming home and I say,

where's your sister and your other brother?

Ah, they were just too far gone, Dad.

We just left them.

I would be a little upset.

I want all of my children.

And if they choose not to in the end, but we have to show compassion all the way up to the end.

Do we not?

We have to.

And Christ within us will do so.

That's our assignment.

It's not my assignment to pick fights or to argue or to get in endless wrestling matches with people about things that are going to pass so quickly.

What matters so much is that I love people just the way God loves people.

And that is, he loves them to the very, very end.

And I'm praying that we can do better at that.

So the tribulation is, because a lot of people would say, if you don't really know the tribulation, some people would say, well, we're already in it, buddy, because these are bad times.

What are the signs that the tribulation is beginning?

Because it's a very specific clock, is it not?

Once we hit the tribulations, it's seven years, period.

At some point, again, my best understanding is at some point after the rapture, and the rapture could occur at any moment.

It could occur at any moment.

We're not waiting on any other events for that.

At that moment, then when the church is lifted from the earth, then I believe Satan, who does not know when the rapture will take place, will see that as his cue with the sheep gone.

He will step in to attack what remains of the people on the planet.

And he will embody the Antichrist, just like he embodied Judas just prior to the crucifixion.

He entered Judas.

And so Satan will enter the body of the Antichrist.

Every generation has had a candidate.

to be the Antichrist.

Since Satan does not know when the rapture will take place, he's just waiting on God's timetable.

And then at some point, and I do not know how long after the rapture, the tribulation will begin,

but it seems to me it won't be long.

I mean,

the world will be in freefall.

There will be such chaos on the planet as a result of the sudden disappearance, the vanishing of so many people.

that it will be a perfect opportunity for the Antichrist to step up onto the world stage.

But you know, Glenn, even during that time of tribulation, even during this darkest time on earth, the book of Revelation has the most interesting teaching, and that is 144,000 Jews who are sealed by Christ.

They are sealed by Christ.

This I find so fascinating.

So there will be during the time of tribulation 12,000 Jews from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, and they will declare their allegiance to Christ.

And this will be yet further fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that he would bless both the seed and the soil.

And these 144,000 Jews, according to Revelation 7, will evangelize.

They will go out.

And the result will be the greatest revival ever.

There will be people from every tongue, every tribe, every nation, and they will, at great personal risk, because of the threat of the Antichrist.

They will become followers of Christ.

Many will be martyred for their faith, but many will survive.

So even during those dark, dark times, there will be times of great hope and renewal.

And I believe that's the promise of that prophecy that God made through Ezekiel and Jeremiah: that in the end of the end days,

there will be a spiritual revival among the Jews.

Max,

I want to make it really clear.

I'm not saying this is the mark of the beast, but what I'm about to say is

at least a candidate, I believe, the technology that the beast will use.

And that is cryptocurrency of some sort, where you embed the chip either in your hand or on your forehead, which is already happening now in some areas.

When do you know it's the mark of the beast, or do you just never put something in your hand that you can purchase items with?

I believe that you're exactly right, Leon.

I believe that, excuse me, that the cryptocurrency or some type of embedded chip would be something if a person happened to be around during the tribulation.

And by the way, it could very well be that if those of us who believe in the rapture are correct, there are people who will someday pull this message and other messages from the past and listen to them again.

And they'll say, now, what were they talking about then?

Because I think it's happening.

And my urgent message to you then, if you're listening to this message someday in the future, is put your trust in Christ.

And whatever the Antichrist or whatever this evil world leader tells you to do, do just the opposite, even at risk of life and limb.

And one of those things might be to put some type of device under your skin because that is what they are telling you is necessary in order for you to buy and sell.

Another major concern, I don't quite understand

how AI

can be anything short of a powerful tool used during the

tribulation.

I mean, even my book that we're talking about today, somebody took, I just got an email this morning that somebody has created an AI counterfeit version of the book.

And it's, I believe, illegal.

I don't believe it's appropriate.

I believe it's certainly unethical.

But that's the kind of stuff that AI can do.

And this is all happening so fast, I can hardly keep up with it.

Oh, I know.

And it's just begun.

Between, if AI were around, you know,

IBM doesn't get enough credit for the Holocaust that they deserve.

They were the ones with a punch card system that knew exactly where the Jews lived and they could round them up in one night.

With AI, it is

way beyond that.

They can now really, without us even knowing,

change what we think is our free will.

They can convince you to make decisions that you wouldn't have made if it wasn't for

the manipulation of your world and your information.

Earlier in the program, you and I discussed that prophecy of Jesus that in the end times, it will be like the beginning of birth pains.

And again, signs coming with increasing intensity and frequency.

Who could have imagined 100 years ago what a Bitcoin was or what AI was?

10 years ago, most of us were not even conversant on these topics.

And some of us still feel like we're catching up, but it's all moving so quickly.

Now, I need to be very, very careful, though, Glenn.

It's never my desire to stir fear.

In fact, I believe the Lord tells us what's about to happen, not so we'll be scared, but just so we'll be prepared.

Be prepared.

Jesus said, during times when you see these signs, lift up your eyes for your redemption is near.

Your redemption is near.

So when we see signs, we don't freak out.

We say, oh, he told us this would happen.

And so we make sure our heart is right with God.

We've given him our eternal destiny.

And we do our best to serve our fellow man.

And we trust that he will make everything happen in the right time, in the right way.

Yeah,

I've had a really hard time, Max, with my job because, you know, I feel my job is to warn.

And,

you know, being the guy on the on the wall warning,

that can be construed as,

you know, instilling fear in people, but it's not.

It's not my intent.

Because I know fear doesn't come from the Lord ever.

And

it's hard to

warn and hard to alert.

when you're looking for the, if you will, the road signs, the exit signs as we pass them each on the highway,

you know, just saying, okay, well, you've got one more exit in front of you and then no gas for 48 miles or whatever it is.

And

it's difficult, but I get such great peace

out of

the signs.

Look for the signs.

If these things are happening, I am close.

Great.

Great.

It shows it.

It's to me, I always found when I was a kid, Book of Revelation, really frightening.

But I don't now.

I find it

giving me hope

that he knew all this.

This is all part of the plan.

We are lucky enough to serve at this time.

I mean, how lucky are we?

People have been waiting for thousands of years.

We're serving at this time.

All we have to do is not fear.

Do what he tells us to do.

And I mean, we're at the finish line.

We're at the finish line.

I could not say amen loudly enough to echo what you just said.

I believe it just makes all kinds of difference in the lives of people.

In the book, I tell kind of a funny story.

I served as a missionary back in my college days in Brazil, and I'd never ridden on a subway before.

And one of the missionaries gave me an assignment to deliver something to the other side of the city of Sao Paulo.

And he gave me a ticket to get on a subway.

And Glenn, when I got on the subway, I didn't know how to read the signs.

I didn't know what to do.

I knew just enough to pay the token, to get on the train, and then off we went.

I grew up in a small West Texas town.

We had no subways.

And

I panicked.

But I didn't speak the language either.

And gratefully, there was an English-speaking Brazilian who saw the anxiety on my face.

And he pointed to that list of that linear line that's at the top of the subway car that points out all the stations.

You know what I'm talking about, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he said, okay.

And he's speaking to me in English.

He says, now here's where you are.

And here's what's about to happen.

Here's where we'll stop.

And he pointed out one.

stop after the other.

And he said, when we reach this one, get off.

And all of a sudden, I could relax.

Right.

And I think that's what end times is all about.

We're doing our best to keep our eye on the timeline or the linear line that our Heavenly Father has provided.

None of us have it all figured out, but this makes sense.

I think I'm going to believe that.

What we all know, though, is that God is in control.

And it's up to us to be faithful between now and then.

And he'll get us off at the right time.

Who do you think the two witnesses are that are described

in Revelation?

Yeah,

that's a good one.

I think Enoch could be one of them.

I think Elijah could be one of them.

And those are people part of this evangelistic crusade.

Tell people what they do, why they're important.

Well, they're important because as they give witness to God in the city of Jerusalem during the time of the tribulation, They are slain,

but then they come back to life and they give testimony to the power of God, even in the middle of these dark, dark days.

And so they are a part of the ongoing declaration of the gospel that God gives in the time of the tribulation to those who will listen.

What do you say, Max, to people who are Jewish that say,

so I'm going to be left behind and I have to convert to Christianity otherwise what

what do you say

well I would say you don't have to you don't have to God is ever the gentleman

and he knocks on the door of our hearts he doesn't pound at the door of our hearts he invites us And I would also say that God bless you because you are a part of a chosen lineage of people that has played such an instrumental role.

You've been unfairly persecuted and judged and indeed massacred in ways that most of us cannot imagine.

And I would also remind you that the most famous Jew in the history of the world is Jesus Christ.

And that when he died on the cross, he died for all of our sins, every single person in all of history.

And he authenticated his act of sacrifice by stepping out of the tomb and proving that he indeed is the Son of God.

He's the Messiah.

He's the Messiah.

I believe that with all of my heart.

And I would hope and I would pray that you'd say yes to him.

Just say yes to him.

But if you don't and you find yourself here during that time of dark and terrible struggle, then you just stay faithful.

He who endures to the end, Jesus said, will be saved.

Turn your heart toward him now, and you won't pass through that time of tribulation.

But if you choose not to and find yourself in the time of tribulation, it's not too late.

Never too late.

Turn your heart toward him.

Let him pay the price for every sin that you've ever committed and know that your name will be written in the book of life.

You know, Glenn, there's one other final event that we've not mentioned yet.

I'll do so in 30 seconds.

And that's the great white throne judgment.

At the end of the millennium, which is that time in which God will set everything right,

there will be a time of reckoning, a time of reckoning.

And the Bible calls this the great white throne judgment.

This is not a time in which believers will stand before God to be judged.

We are judged not guilty because we put our faith in Christ.

But everyone who has rejected God throughout their lives will stand before God.

Because the rule is clear, if you spend your life telling Jesus to leave you alone, in the end, he will do just that.

And on that day two books will be open or a book and a set of books will be open the book is the book of life and the book of life is where the name is written of every person who is called out to Christ for salvation and the books the books are the deeds the works the actions of every person So when God opens the book, if a person's name is not found written in the book of life, then the books are open and all of their deeds will be declared.

And no one wants to stand before a holy God expecting to be saved according to their deeds.

I don't.

I don't, because my deeds are enough to convict me.

And that's why this message is so urgent.

When you say yes to Christ, he writes your name in that book of life.

Because the great white throne judgment is that moment in which those who have dismissed Christ will be dismissed forever from the presence of Christ.

The final moments with Max Lucato Lucato in just a minute.

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Let me talk about another section in your book,

Why Our World is Upside Down.

I wonder

as I watch what's happening in the world, for instance, the Olympics.

That was a nightmare opening and closing ceremony.

And

I think there are those who knew exactly what they were doing.

And I feel like

we are

experiencing people doing ancient rituals, even if they don't know they're doing ancient rituals.

You know,

the murder of their child, sacrifice.

It is,

it's,

it seems to be all around.

And we've gone from a

society that chased God out of our schools, out of, you know, our, you know, our town square, chased him out of our life,

to a society that is actually,

in a way, bringing him back to the town square so we can can mock and ridicule him.

And God will not be mocked.

Is there a way to

turn this around?

Let me ask you this way:

I could find 50 good men in America.

Is there a way to turn this judgment that we deserve around?

We can't, but God can.

God can.

I'm holding out hope that there will be a return, that there'll be a revival.

I agree with you.

There is such a mockery of God in the public square.

People

claim it as a right and inherit, inalienable right to destroy pre-born.

and really build the whole platform upon that one idea.

It's deeply, deeply concerning.

I'm holding out hope that there will still be a great revival that will call people back to a sense of reverence for God and respect for human life.

I do not have a secret sauce to make that happen, though Glenn.

If I did, I would have produced it a long time ago.

What does matter is that people of faith do their very best to keep praying, keep seeking.

Let's avoid cynicism.

Let's don't get bitter.

Let's don't give up.

Let's trust that the God who has brought about revival in the past.

Remember, we serve a God who rescued the Israelites out of Egyptian bondage.

We serve a God who destroyed the worshipers of Baal during the times of Elijah.

We serve a God who became a human being and walked on the earth.

We serve a God who activated a movement on the day of Pentecost.

We serve a great and powerful God of intervention and action.

Let's all join our hearts, keep our hopes high, and trust that he can do it again and that he will do it again.

I never thought this before until recently.

But we have taken

all of the blessings of our country.

We've turned them upside down.

We've become greedy, and we've really

sold our souls for things and stuff.

Do you think there's a chance, Max, that

we might be the

great whore of the earth?

Well, we're certainly having a hard time behaving, aren't we,

in accordance with the blessings that we have been given?

I mean, there are generations upon generations who would love to have the blessings that we have as a people.

Access to education, medical care, opportunity to study scripture without fear of reproach or martyrdom.

There are many cultures all around the world right now.

who would cherish what I think many of us just take for granted.

This is a time, however, in which we can become again people of great gratitude and people of deep faith and keep looking up to our Heavenly Father.

I suppose the best thing we can do is repent.

Just repent and say, Lord, we're sorry.

You've called your listeners.

You've called society to a time of repentance more than once.

And I think that's this posture that we have to take.

And that is the promise of Scripture.

If my people who are called by my name humble themselves and pray and repent of their sins, then I will come back and I will heal their land.

In that

thousand-year reign of Christ, Satan is bound.

He has no influence for a thousand years.

What are we going to be doing, and what will that be like?

I love talking about the millennium.

And again, what we're discussing when we say the millennium is a promise in Revelation 20 of a thousand years in which Satan will be bound and Christ will be crowned.

Satan will be dismissed.

He will have no influence on the earth and Christ will be crowned.

And we, as his children, will reign and rule with him for those thousand years.

We were made to reign and rule with Christ.

People often forget that in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were set over creation to tend and to care for it.

They were not second or below creation.

They were placed over creation.

We see Adam exercising his rightful role as a co-regent when he named the animals.

But Adam and Eve did not continue in their part of the covenant, but God never abandoned his.

And for that reason, I think we can be sure that there will be a thousand years of peace and prosperity in which you and I will have a role in which we're reigning and ruling with Christ during that time.

One of the great parables of Christ concludes with Jesus saying to a good landowner or to a good steward, well done, good and faithful servant.

You've been faithful over a few things.

I will now make you ruler over many.

Now, I'm not sure exactly what you're going to rule over, Glenn, what I'm going to rule over, but I'm honored at the thought that I will have a part in this thousand-year period in which God will have his garden just as he promised, way back as recorded in the earliest chapters of the Bible.

I don't know about ruling over, but I want to be the taste tester for the bakeries in that thousand years.

What is when the

thief on the cross

said,

surely you are innocent, will you

will you will you help me?

And Jesus said,

today you will be with me in paradise.

What's the difference, if there is, between paradise and heaven?

Yes, there is a difference.

On the timeline, as we lay it out,

we've already pointed out that the the next major event is the rapture but what happens if a person dies before the rapture what if today i take my final breath what will happen to me well according to the passage you just referred to when jesus said to the thief on the cross today you'll be with me in paradise we go immediately into paradise now john wesley famously said that paradise is almost

that he said paradise is the front porch of heaven in other words it's almost heaven, but not quite.

Paradise is a place where we enjoy conscious fellowship with the Father, conscious fellowship with one another, and yet we're still separated from our physical bodies.

At the rapture, that's when our physical body will be reunited with our spirits.

Our bodies will be glorified.

They will be healed once and forever.

And this, by the way, includes the healing of all those babies who never exited the womb.

It includes the healing of all those who did not have the mental capacity to make a decision for or against crimes.

It includes the healing of friends of yours and mine who spent all of their life in a wheelchair or unable to operate in a 100%

healthy body.

That healing is going to happen, but that healing will happen at the rapture.

In the meantime, we go to paradise and our spirit is in the presence of Christ.

And there we enjoy fellowship with God.

We enjoy fellowship with one another.

And to some degree, we comprise what the Bible calls that great cloud of witnesses.

In other words, there's a great cloud of witnesses rooting us on, cheering us on.

I do not believe that we pray to them, but I do believe in some way that they can see us and they're encouraging us.

And I find such great hope in this.

In the green room at the church

where I preach, we have a painting, and it's a painting of a preacher, just a good old-fashioned preacher standing behind a pulpit, holding an open Bible, wearing a coat and tie.

And he's surrounded by preachers who have gone before.

Elijah is there, Moses is there, Paul is there, Peter is there, and it's called the Great Cloud of Witnesses.

And whenever I'm about to preach, I always look at that painting, and I can just almost hear him saying, give them heaven, Max.

Go get them, you know.

And I take comfort in knowing that our loved ones who have preceded us in death are in that great cloud of witnesses.

Their emotions are healed, their souls are healed, their hearts are happy, and they're just waiting until that moment in which the new heaven and the new earth will happen.

And we will all enter that new Jerusalem in our perfected bodies to reign with Christ forever.

Let me ask you a

kind of an unrelated question, kind of.

You and I

have known one particular pastor for a very long time,

and

I think you were probably as surprised as I was when we found out that some things were happening, and now you're the interim pastor there.

How do you deal with

good people doing really bad things and then

having to,

I mean, what are you supposed to do with that information, I guess?

Yeah.

And

I find

instruction as I open the Bible and read the stories of King David.

who did amazing work,

led Israel to a time of amazing peace and prosperity, Wrote many of the psalms that we cherish.

And yet, one of those psalms is Psalm 51, in which he's begging the Lord for a renewed spirit because he's confessed to that horrible sin with Bathsheba.

By the way, a sin he kept covered up for well over a year until he was finally confronted.

Stories like David, stories like Peter, who denied Christ, stories like Paul, who persecuted the church.

I mean, scripture is,

how shall we say, littered

with the testimonies of men and women who could have done better, should have known better, but they didn't.

And yet, God used them anyway.

Yeah.

I'm disappointed when that happens.

It's heartbreaking.

It's really tough on the church.

But it's not new.

It's not new.

It's,

I feel kind of,

you know, it bothered me early on,

you know, in 2015, when people would look to Trump and say,

you know, he's God's anointed or whatever.

I don't look at it that way.

I look at it as,

you know, Martin Luther King was not the first guy they asked to lead that movement.

He was just the first to say yes, knowing what could happen to him.

And I think that's the same kind of thing with Trump.

There's been a lot of people who have stood up and said they would take it.

And I think the Lord could have used a man that is much closer to him, but maybe they didn't stand up.

And he did.

When you...

Sorry.

Go ahead.

No, go ahead.

I was just going to say in my devotional reading this morning, I was in the book of 2 Corinthians.

And the Apostle Paul wrote, We have this treasure in earthen vessels.

And I couldn't get beyond that.

We have a treasure.

What is that treasure?

Well, the treasure is what we're talking about, that this life is passing quickly, but the greatest life awaits us all.

That's a treasure.

It's the gospel.

But we have it in earthen vessels.

Here I am talking to you with COVID.

I've got a raw throat.

I've got a body that's getting old.

I have an earthen vessel.

And so God's message through that scripture to me is, even though your earthen vessel is just like a clay pot, I can still get the message out.

And so the power lies not so much in the earthen vessel, but in the message itself.

And I'm just going to trust that he's going to keep getting that message out through us who have earthen vessels.

When you saw the assassination attempt of Donald Trump and you saw how close that bullet came and he turned his head.

Stunning.

It gave a lot of people a lot of hope that maybe God's not done with us.

Do miracles like that happen, Max?

I think everything is under the sovereign hand of God and everything is intended to get our attention.

Now, we need to be very careful and remember that we exist to make a big deal out of God.

God does not exist to make a big deal out of us.

And that his ultimate goal is to establish a kingdom with which he's going to reign and rule forever, forever, with those who say yes to him.

Now, he may use the United States to accomplish that goal.

I believe he has.

I believe thanks to the United States, people like me have the opportunity to hear the greatest news in the history of the world.

But I do believe that the United States is simply a tool in his hand.

That he doesn't exist to make a big deal out of our country.

He exists to make a big deal out of this promise, this promise, that he wants every man and woman, every child to say yes to him.

And that these brief and momentary days are passing quickly.

And I know our fascination right now is on the election.

Well, it should be.

We should be prayerful and careful, but we need to be even more concerned about serving God

and

showing our ultimate allegiance to him.

I just love you so much, Max.

It's always a pleasure to talk to you.

Well, I know I stuck my foot in my mouth a few times, so forgive me in advance or in retrospect for what I did.

I love you too.

Not at all.

God bless you, Max.

Be together in person, maybe next time.

Yeah.

Yeah, we will.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, my friend.

Just a reminder: I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.