Historical PROOF That Jesus Lived, Died & Rose Again | Guests: Rick Burgess & Gary Habermas | 3/29/24

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Speaker 1 Hey, Stu.

Speaker 1 Hi, Glenn. How are you? Have you had your rough greens yet? Good.
Have you had your rough greens yet? I have. I had my big bowl of rough greens.
I don't know that it's.

Speaker 1 You know, I don't know, Glenn. You keep recommending that I eat it.
And, you know, look, I know it has a lot of nutrients in it. No, keep just keep taking it.

Speaker 1 Have you mixed it into a shake yet? No, I just keep

Speaker 1 it right out of the bag.

Speaker 1 Really? Just the powder, just like.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's very dry. I mean, you know, like you ever had like a Thanksgiving turkey that comes out too dry.
It's like that. Too dry, yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, it's weird. You could just try mixing it in like a banana shake.
You'll love it.

Speaker 1 What Stu doesn't know is rough greens isn't a human food. In fact, it's not a dog food, but it's made to put on your dog's food.

Speaker 1 It has all the nutrients and everything else that your dog needs for a healthy and long life.

Speaker 1 Let's keep following this funny, funny story of Stu not knowing that rough greens isn't really for people. Roughgreens.com, they're going to get you your first bag free, roughgreens.com/slash back.

Speaker 1 No, seriously, a chocolate shake or a banana shake, and you just stir that in, Stew, and it sounds great.

Speaker 1 You're gonna be like a puppy again.

Speaker 1 Oh, oh, oh, stay the train

Speaker 1 and hold the line.

Speaker 1 It's a new day, a time to rain.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the fusion

Speaker 1 of entertainment

Speaker 1 and enlightenment.

Speaker 1 this is the Glen Beck program

Speaker 1 well hello America welcome to the Glenbeck program good news it is uh good Friday so we're gonna try to be good today I mean I don't mean in our performance we're never good but I mean as people we're gonna try to be good that may last about five minutes but we're gonna try and

Speaker 1 also some more good news because of Binomics,

Speaker 1 this beautiful system that is working, it's the most beautiful system ever.

Speaker 1 It's the third priciest Easter

Speaker 1 on record.

Speaker 1 You're gonna spend almost $200

Speaker 1 per person on food. That's the average cost of Easter.
I don't know what you're having, but...

Speaker 1 My house, I don't think we're having $200 per person, but we'll look at that on today's broadcast. It is Good Friday.
Buckle up. Here we go.

Speaker 1 First, let's talk about our sponsor this half hour. It's Tunnel to Towers Foundation.

Speaker 1 Did you know more first responders have died since 9-11 from related illnesses than actually died on that day almost 23 years ago?

Speaker 1 Yet there are only two states in the entire country that require that we teach kindergarten through 12th grade those kids about the darkest day in modern history, 9-11. They don't know.

Speaker 1 Tunnel to Towers 9-11 Institute is doing something about that. They're providing non-fiction resources to teachers to help educate kids.

Speaker 1 Their full curriculum units with scripted social studies lessons, activities, background information for the teachers, and their first-person accounts told through the videos.

Speaker 1 You know, I hope someday the progressives can take those first-person accounts and discredit those people, you know, as not really knowing what they were talking about, like they've done with all of our founders and everybody else that made any sense in history.

Speaker 1 Anyway, they also have a speakers bureau for classrooms, a mobile exhibit which tours with 9-11 artifacts. Never forgetting about 9-11 means providing education for future generations,

Speaker 1 and it requires funding from people like you. Let's help our nation keep its vow.
If you have any resources, would you be a part of this solution?

Speaker 1 $11 a month to tunnel to towers at tthe number two t.org. That's t2t.org.

Speaker 1 Well, stew, stew, stew, stew, stew.

Speaker 1 What is the big story to you?

Speaker 1 Wow, that is great. And what a, what a, you know how to tell a tale.
What a.

Speaker 1 You're not going to say anything now, are you?

Speaker 1 Go ahead.

Speaker 1 Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 Well, two can play at that game.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm pretty sure when I was going to say something, you were going to cut me off as you normally do and say how interesting my story was. So I figured maybe just silence would work better.

Speaker 1 I don't think this game is good for radio. No, probably not.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 How are you? How was your last night? I'm good. I'm good.
Thanks. That was an interesting story.
You told it so well. Thank you.
I appreciate that, Clay. Thank you.
I thank you. Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 So I have some, well, not so good of news.

Speaker 1 Apparently, the standard that comes out weekly, not to be confused with the weekly standard here in America, the standard in London has been looking into Nostradamus.

Speaker 1 And who hasn't thought to themselves, I wonder what Nostradamus says about our days? You know?

Speaker 1 I mean, if I could just ask him for a real answer to that question, because i would be included in that particular group

Speaker 1 you would be interested not not interested not at all not well i don't even understand it they just i feel like people just look at things that were recorded from this guy and then just like turn it into whatever's happening today they just well it's retrograde is not specific

Speaker 1 It's poetry. It's a quatrain.
Right. And it's not specific at all.
No. At all.
Okay.

Speaker 1 But apparently some of the things that he has predicted have now come true. And this is supposedly a busy year.
I mean, not for Nostradamus. He's been dead for a long time.

Speaker 1 He's not busy, but his predictions, a lot of them could happen this year. Now, it's weird because he never gives a date for any of it.
So I don't know how they're like, you know what?

Speaker 1 This is the year that he predicted.

Speaker 1 What? How do you know? He never said the date. Right? Am I misunderstanding it? Is there some way that they're actually like smart people who look at Nostradamus actually can figure this out?

Speaker 1 Or is it just basically like, hey, let's look at the five biggest news stories and say

Speaker 1 Nostradamus said they were going to happen? Like, that's what it feels like.

Speaker 1 I just can't get over the,

Speaker 1 are smart people looking at Nostradamus's predictions and figuring them out. No, you bring it up every year.

Speaker 1 It's a big negatory on that one. Okay, okay.
No, because I think they're fun because people do just, you know, they jam everything.

Speaker 1 It's like, you know, you read the horoscope and you're like, oh my gosh, that's exactly what's happening in my life.

Speaker 1 All right. So Nostradamus,

Speaker 1 apparently,

Speaker 1 some of the events that he apparently predicted, the Great Fire of London, and who can forget that? The French Revolution, the Rise of Napoleon, and Adolf Hitler.

Speaker 1 I remember that one because he does say something like Histler. in one of the, you know, the great monster, and it was Hisler.
I mean, so he got one letter wrong. I mean, that's pretty impressive.

Speaker 1 Both world wars, the nuclear destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But this year, expected to be a very big year.

Speaker 1 He has predicted now a war with China. Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 The dethroning of King Charles.

Speaker 1 and that the dry earth will grow more parched and there will be great floods when it is seen.

Speaker 1 So that's

Speaker 1 wait, it's going to be more parched, and there's going to be floods,

Speaker 1 of course.

Speaker 1 There's always parching and floods, they go together. So, basically, his prediction is the earth will be wet or dry,

Speaker 1 yes, but at different times, unless they happen at the same time,

Speaker 1 and it's going to get worse. The flooding and the parching.

Speaker 1 So, you have that. Also,

Speaker 1 now

Speaker 1 this is according to the standard.

Speaker 1 Also,

Speaker 1 we could see the death of Pope Francis this year. Wow.
That's. Now he's 86 and sick,

Speaker 1 but we could see. And if he does die this year.
No Stradamus. No Stradamus.
He saw it. Couldn't you say this about all human beings, that all human beings could die this year individually? Yes.

Speaker 1 We could see the death of Stubergir. Right.
It could happen.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. It could happen.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And won't it be weird when it does happen

Speaker 1 at some time this year that

Speaker 1 we're going to play this segment back and go, he didn't believe in the prophecies.

Speaker 1 It was Nostradamus who did it. Yeah, I like it.
Right.

Speaker 1 He also predicted the beginning of a third world war 79 years after the end of the second one,

Speaker 1 which would land in 2024.

Speaker 1 Bum bum bum.

Speaker 1 So there was, you're telling me there was a

Speaker 1 quadrain that basically says World War II will happen and then 79 years after that, World War III will begin.

Speaker 1 That was actually said in one of these poems, or was it something that they're just interpreting to? Well, I don't know. You know, it's weird because they don't include any of the actual

Speaker 1 quadrains. No quotes.
Or no quotes. No, they had the quote for the environmental one

Speaker 1 that one they had the quote from the quatrain the parts like the rest of them no no

Speaker 1 no they don't have that

Speaker 1 that's pretty specific and he did i know i i remember reading you know about nostradamus years ago 30 40 years ago and uh and reading about the you know prediction of world war one and world war ii and they did seem you know really pretty solid but 79 years later

Speaker 1 there's supposed to be a third one. I want to know, is this

Speaker 1 the name Nagasaki in a quatrain?

Speaker 1 No. No.
Right? No. No.
We know he came close to one name.

Speaker 1 Didn't get it right.

Speaker 1 Right. But I mean, come on.
400 years ago, you say a guy's going to rise that it's going to set the world on fire and his name is Histler. I give you, I cut you some slack.
I do cut you some slack.

Speaker 1 I suppose. But I also also suppose if you actually were able to predict these things, you'd just say the right name.
Right?

Speaker 1 I don't know. I mean, call me a little bit.
He was old. He was old.
He couldn't hear.

Speaker 1 You know, he was like, what? Hisler? What?

Speaker 1 Yeah, maybe the angel that's

Speaker 1 whispering him to him had kind of a speech impediment. He's like, and then, and then the second war is going to be

Speaker 1 Hitler is coming. And

Speaker 1 so he was like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 Histler is coming.

Speaker 1 No, I said Hitler.

Speaker 1 Hisler, that's what I wrote. Hitler.

Speaker 1 I don't know. We wouldn't all have been able to see it coming if not for the speech impediment.
Right. But

Speaker 1 wouldn't it, I mean, it would be weird. I mean, those.
I mean, those could happen, especially the Pope. He's sick.

Speaker 1 You know, the war with China, would you be surprised if we went to war with China? And then it would lead to the, you know, a global war? I mean, yeah,

Speaker 1 it seems like they would be tied together.

Speaker 1 They would have got to nail the other. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I got to give you, I'm only going to give you one point for that. Right.
Yeah. War with China, Third World War.
You get one point, not two. Right.

Speaker 1 Did they include any of his 2023 predictions? Do they review what happened in 2023? Like, what was this article in 2023? What did it predict?

Speaker 1 i don't think they did that last year they do it every year we do this segment every year and every year there's a bunch of crazy predictions and every year none of them come true

Speaker 1 no did the queen die last year yeah she did didn't she i think so apparently he predicted the death of queen elizabeth and

Speaker 1 the very short routine

Speaker 1 of

Speaker 1 What? Like the Pope. Pope Francis is like a teenager compared to her.

Speaker 1 Anyone could have predicted this. Well, you know, but he was, he did it 400 years ago.
He didn't know how old she was. She could have been 14.

Speaker 1 And at some point she was. Anyway.

Speaker 1 So this is how much I'm struggling for good news.

Speaker 1 Good news. You just predicted World War III.
What do you mean good news?

Speaker 1 It's good to, because do you believe Nostra Thomas? No, I don't. No.

Speaker 1 Okay. Do you think we're going to be sitting here at the end of the year going, man, he called it?

Speaker 1 And I just remember, I remember us always saying almost every day, I mean, stranger things have happened. I mean, why not?

Speaker 1 We might be at the end of the year going, geez, Nostradamus, he really hit the nail on the head. Dude nailed it, yeah.
Well, I will say, too, it's one of those things that's

Speaker 1 there's a small reward for it because if we're in the middle of World War III and being nuked by China, like I doubt we're going to be like, you know what?

Speaker 1 By the way, we should note that Nostradamus did mention this

Speaker 1 as an ICBM lands on your city. But let me ask you this.
Let me ask you this.

Speaker 1 I mean, all of those do sound feasible, don't you think? I mean, King Charles, how long is that guy going to last?

Speaker 1 He's not doing very well, apparently. He's not doing...
Oh, is he sick? Yeah, he's not doing well. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 I know she was sick. She has cancer or something.
Yeah. Not Bowles, but the other.

Speaker 1 Right. And he does too, right? Yeah.
Future queen, what's her name?

Speaker 1 Middleton. So I didn't know he was sick.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. What a shame he's sick.

Speaker 1 But anyway, I mean, that doesn't sound like that's all that. And China sounds pretty feasible.
We could be at war with China

Speaker 1 or areas that once were China. How about that one? So we go to Row War with Russia.
I'll bet you parts of Russia back then were China just saying he's right again.

Speaker 1 This is a strange thing. I'm a big.
It's a strange thing that we go through this. Like, there's definitely people who are just trying to make this one guy right 400 years later.

Speaker 1 Like, they spend a lot of time justifying things the guy wrote 400 years ago to try to predict that he was correct today. Like, what a weird pastime.

Speaker 1 Right, but I mean, what does it say about us

Speaker 1 that we want to believe that somebody has called this? And we want to, we want the foreknowledge of bad things, you know?

Speaker 1 I mean, if we didn't care as a species, if we didn't, you wouldn't go to psychics. You wouldn't, I mean, I don't go to psychics, but, you know, people wouldn't go to psychics.

Speaker 1 What is the deal where you are, you're so, we're such a strange.

Speaker 1 egotistical, you know,

Speaker 1 we're all created in the image of God. But if we say we have the creative force of the Creator that we think

Speaker 1 and it becomes,

Speaker 1 and you tie that at all to, well, that's the way our Creator does as well.

Speaker 1 They're like, oh my gosh, you are so sacrilegious. How dare you say that we have anything in common with the Creator? We have nothing.
We can't do anything.

Speaker 1 But this guy over here, he can predict the future.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Like, obviously, this has been something that has been around for a very long time,

Speaker 1 certainly back to Nostradamus and beyond. But like, I do think that, you know, to bring it back to Good Friday for a second here, it does seem like there is a,

Speaker 1 when you take away your higher power and you eliminate it and you no longer,

Speaker 1 you know, believe it and society abandons that situation, you start looking for crazy stuff to believe in. You're like, I don't know.
I got to find something else. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's what Nietzsche said. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, good. We've effectively killed God.
Be careful because man must have a God.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I prefer the one who's like, hey, some point, probably not in your lifetime, it's going to get really bad.

Speaker 1 But I love you.

Speaker 1 I mean, I like that one, you know, where it's kind of like a dad who reads a scary tale, you know, when you're old enough to handle it, reads you just a little scary book, like, you know, what is that?

Speaker 1 Goosebumps, you you know, he's like, and then

Speaker 1 this Antichrist comes and then you're like, but he's like, but don't worry, I'm here for you, and tucks you into bed. That's kind of like God.

Speaker 1 It seems. And then he leaves and you're like, please leave the light on.
Please leave the light on.

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Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 how about this for good news?

Speaker 1 Okay, how about this one? In Florida,

Speaker 1 Governor DeSantis

Speaker 1 has just passed this crazy legislation that says

Speaker 1 you can't take somebody's house just by sitting in it.

Speaker 1 I know, I know, it's nuts,

Speaker 1 but that's good news, at least in Florida.

Speaker 1 Now, I want to know when exactly this became okay.

Speaker 1 At what point in American history,

Speaker 1 who was the first squatter?

Speaker 1 They were like, you know, it works.

Speaker 1 Oh, I know, I know, man, I know. Oh, this is America.
It was the Pilgrims. They were the first squatters, man.

Speaker 1 But who was the first, really?

Speaker 1 Because I never grew up in a time, at least I didn't, maybe I just didn't hear about them, where people could just come into your house and just live there and then call the police on you.

Speaker 1 Hey, they're trying to kick me out of their house. I mean, it's not their house because I've been sitting here for a while.

Speaker 1 Yes, they have all the documentation and everything else, but power to the people, man. When did that happen? When did we lose our mind on that?

Speaker 1 I mean, it looks like it goes back to early Roman law and medieval England as well.

Speaker 1 Excuse me? What?

Speaker 1 It's part of the English common law system evolved to the doctrine of

Speaker 1 productive use of land.

Speaker 1 That was the idea way back in the day, I guess. It's where it comes from.
But like, that just seems completely insane to me. The fact that there are any, there's no squatters' rights.

Speaker 1 You're just stealing from someone. That's all.

Speaker 1 We also, going back even farther than that, would be that, I don't know, thou shalt not steal. And I think that we've had that ingrained in our society and civilization for a long time.

Speaker 1 And the fact that, like, I love with this DeSantis effort, 100% behind it, and I think it's important.

Speaker 1 He did a great job. But, like, to me, it seems like it's not even close to far enough.

Speaker 1 Like, all it basically says is, yeah, you know, if someone squats in your house, you can have law enforcement come and remove them. As if that's, like, not blatantly obvious.

Speaker 1 Like, these people should be going to prison for decades

Speaker 1 honestly if somebody comes up to you at a traffic light and takes your car and kicks you out that's carjacking if somebody gets into your car and you're asleep and it's in the driveway and they drive away with it that's grand theft auto

Speaker 1 How is this not grand theft house? Yeah, if not worse, I mean, it's a much more expensive thing you've stolen from someone.

Speaker 1 I don't get it at all. How this could even be accepted by anyone.
And now it's one of those things that even states like New York are supposedly going to move against.

Speaker 1 We'll see if they actually do it. They didn't move much against carjacking.

Speaker 1 Well, let me tell you this. Let me tell you this.
You know who saw this coming? No. Oh, no, he didn't.
No, Strada. Yes, he did.
Yes, he did.

Speaker 1 Glenn back.

Speaker 1 All right, you sick freak. It is Good Friday.
Easter is just around the corner. So let me tell you about the burn along.

Speaker 1 As I'm telling you about Christ, let me tell you about a way to take a man down.

Speaker 1 There you are, frozen in the moment, bad guy approaching you, you and your family. Things just got really real.
In that moment, you have a choice. Reach one hand and

Speaker 1 pull out your gun. Now, you don't shoot to wound.
You shoot to kill. You shoot to stop them.
And that is a huge responsibility.

Speaker 1 The other choice is reach the other direction and grab your Burna launcher. Sometimes you need a gun.
Sometimes you need a Burna launcher.

Speaker 1 You take one shot. You're within three, four, five feet of the person with a

Speaker 1 tear gas pellet. They're not going to move for about 40 minutes.
The Burna Launcher, non-lethal alternative to safeguarding your home home and your family. Proudly made in America.

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Speaker 1 Easter is all about forgiveness and practicing forgiveness.

Speaker 1 Stu, I want you to know I forgive you. Oh, thank you, Glenn.

Speaker 1 You're welcome.

Speaker 1 What are you forgiving me for exactly?

Speaker 1 Oh, my gosh. Well, see,

Speaker 1 this is good to point out. See, he's pretending he doesn't know his trespasses against me,

Speaker 1 but I forgive him of his trespasses. But he doesn't have to.
It doesn't change my forgiveness, do

Speaker 1 I still forgive you? All right. Oh, it's an important lesson on an important day.
Yeah, I got another important lesson. You're, let's say, put yourself in this scenario.
Okay. You're on the view.

Speaker 1 All right. Okay.
Yes. And you've been on the view, right? You've gone through this.
I have been on the view. I have.
I have.

Speaker 1 So you're on the view, and it's Easter Friday. You know, it's Good Friday.
What,

Speaker 1 you know, Joy says something to you. Your response is,

Speaker 1 shut up, Joy, you fat witch.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, that would not. No, it's, again, Good Friday.
So, okay. And whoopee, you too, you old hag.

Speaker 1 Okay, no, that's not the way to do it. No, we shouldn't do it that way on Good Friday.
That's what we're trying to tell people. We probably shouldn't do it on average Wednesday either.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? That's true. He probably shouldn't do that.
I will say my response was somewhat close to what you said when you were on the

Speaker 1 when you were actually on the table. I think I was completely.
No.

Speaker 1 Well, maybe in the aftermath.

Speaker 1 Wasn't I? Maybe that was. Yeah, in the aftermath.
I think I tried to be nice the whole time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Certainly often here I went in for that type of response at one point or another. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, I don't know about that. That would be wrong of me.
There was a guy, though, on the view that I think we should play that does demonstrate how people better than us actually respond.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is Coleman Hughes, who

Speaker 1 wrote a book recently, which is a great book. It's about basically in defense of colorblindness.

Speaker 1 Hey, maybe we shouldn't abandon the idea that colorblindness is the goal here, guys. Like, I can't believe you need to write even a book about this, but he did, and it's very good.

Speaker 1 And he went on the view. And, of course,

Speaker 1 they had to give him the ad hominem charlatan question, which is what you'd expect 100% from the view. When just praising the idea that we should be colorblind, this is the question he got.

Speaker 2 Your argument for colorblindness, I think, is something that the right has co-opted. And so many in the black community,

Speaker 2 if I'm being honest with you, because I want to be,

Speaker 2 believe that you are being used as a pawn by the right and that you're a charlatan of sorts.

Speaker 1 He's not a Republican. So how do you

Speaker 1 vote for the Republican?

Speaker 2 You've said that you're a conservative.

Speaker 1 No, you did.

Speaker 2 You actually said that in the podcast that you did two weeks ago.

Speaker 4 I said I was a conservative. He's not a private.

Speaker 1 He's not. Yes, you did.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 my question to you is, how do you respond to those critics? Those critics.

Speaker 1 Stop, stop, stop, stop right here.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Stop right there.

Speaker 1 Your shut up, you fat witch, does

Speaker 1 seem to be calling out to me for his response.

Speaker 1 And that wasn't even what I would be.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, no, no. But just buried deep inside of me, hearing that question phrased that way, shut up, you fat witch, does

Speaker 1 seem to be an option.

Speaker 1 And what we're trying to say on this day is that's the wrong option. That's not

Speaker 1 what you should do. It would feel like you're only human.
Yeah. Right, you're only human.
I don't think, even though Jesus was part human, I don't think that was an option that he felt.

Speaker 1 But you, me, probably would feel that way. But here's how he responded.

Speaker 4 I think it's very important. The quote that you just pointed out about doing something special for the Negro, that's from the book Why We Can't Wait that I just mentioned.
Yes.

Speaker 4 A couple paragraphs later, he lays out exactly what that something special was. And it was the Bill of Rights for the Disadvantaged, a broad class-based population.

Speaker 3 But Paul.

Speaker 2 He also says you must include race.

Speaker 4 No, he didn't. He says it's...
Yes, he does. Okay, well,

Speaker 4 everyone should go read the book Why We Can't Wait. Let's not get sidetracked by that.
Yeah, get ahead of it.

Speaker 4 I don't think I've been co-opted by anyone. I've only voted twice, both for Democrats.

Speaker 4 Although I'm an independent, I would vote for a Republican, probably a non-Trump Republican if they were compelling.

Speaker 4 I don't think there's any evidence I've been co-opted by anyone, and I think that that's That's an ad hominem tactic people use to not address really the important conversations we're having here.

Speaker 4 And I think it's better and it would be better for everyone if we stuck to the topics rather than make it about me with no evidence.

Speaker 2 I want to give you the opportunity to respond to the

Speaker 2 criticism.

Speaker 4 I appreciate it. There's no evidence that I've been co-opted by anyone.
I have an independent podcast. I work for CNN as an analyst.
I write for the free press.

Speaker 4 I'm independent in all of these endeavors, and no one is paying me to say what I'm saying. I'm saying it because I feel it.

Speaker 1 So, what he's saying there is, shut up, you fat witch.

Speaker 1 I think that's what I heard. I think that's what I heard.
Just in a very nice way. Yeah, you know, and it's like

Speaker 1 he's good at just

Speaker 1 dismantling it with reason, right? Like, there's no evidence that this guy has been co-opted by the right. These are arguments that we all used to agree on.

Speaker 1 They were, I mean, outside of the KKK, if you were not wearing a white hood, most people would say, hey, we shouldn't focus on skin color as much.

Speaker 1 And now, 50% of the population, or at least 50% of our major political parties, have embraced an idea that we should only focus on race and gender and other unreasonable segregates. Yeah, like

Speaker 1 it's it's it's horrific that that has happened under all of our watch.

Speaker 1 At least if you're on the left, you've let this happen and you should be on the side of Coleman Hughes and pushing back against it. And there are very few that are.

Speaker 1 You know, it's amazing to me that the Democrats get stuck in about 1968.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 It's like they just stopped

Speaker 1 seeing new things. You know what I mean? It's just like,

Speaker 1 yeah, well, you know what?

Speaker 1 That's why blacks should be able to go to school with whites. And you're like.

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay, we've believed that for now 40, 50 years. Maybe even longer.
We've been on that. Yeah, we've been on that train.

Speaker 1 You know, white people, again, there are still some Klan members out there that don't agree, but there's also Joy Reed. Yeah.
So. Yeah, but that's the thing.

Speaker 1 Like, they have decided when we, like, oh, in the 1960s, hey, blacks should be able to go to school with whites. The left has reversed that.
They now say they should have safe spaces away from whites.

Speaker 1 I know. They've legitimately gone the opposite way, and they're acting as if we're the crazy ones.
I know. I know.
And we learned that my generation, I am the last of the boomer generation last year.

Speaker 1 And I grew up in a time where I didn't see color. We didn't do that.

Speaker 1 You know, I mean, it's not,

Speaker 1 yes. There were people.
When you're in a bad section of town,

Speaker 1 bad section of town, you might look over your shoulder.

Speaker 1 Does that because it's black? Why? Because I said a bad section of town? You all of a sudden assume that it's a black neighborhood? Who's the racist here?

Speaker 1 Who's the racist here?

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 you just don't do that. We have gotten to a place, or we were at a place, to where we wanted to see people for the content of their character, thought that was right.

Speaker 1 And in many cases, that's the way we judged the world.

Speaker 1 And it's as if all of these radicals, as if 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000, 2000, well, 2008, I think was the end of that.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's like none of those years happened.

Speaker 1 Like all of the things, all the progress we made didn't happen. We're still in 1965.

Speaker 1 In what world?

Speaker 1 In what world? Yeah, no, it's true. And you see the way that these people retreated.
There was was another interview that happened. It was a speech, I think, happened recently.

Speaker 1 It was part of the free press, which Coleman Hughes also mentioned in that clip, where they interviewed a guy who did a study, an academic who did a study on police violence against blacks.

Speaker 1 And the study came out

Speaker 1 in an interesting way. Not the way the media would have believed it would come out.
Now, the man who's speaking is, I don't have his, I misplaced his name, but

Speaker 1 he's an African-American gentleman who is describing a study he did in academic circles to talk about violence against African Americans by the police. Listen.

Speaker 5 I collected a lot of data. We collected millions of observations on everyday use of force that wasn't lethal.
We collected thousands of observations on lethal force.

Speaker 5 And it was in this moment, 2016, that I realized

Speaker 5 people lose their minds when they don't like the result. So what my paper showed, you'll see tomorrow,

Speaker 5 like some of you,

Speaker 5 was that, yes, we saw some bias in the low-level uses of force every day pushing up against cars and things like that.

Speaker 5 People seem to like that result, but we didn't find any

Speaker 5 racial bias in police shootings. Now, that was really surprising to me because I expected to see it.
The little known fact is I had eight full-time RAs that it took to do this over nearly a year.

Speaker 5 When I found this surprising result, I hired eight fresh ones and redid it to make sure.

Speaker 5 They came up with the same exact answer, and I thought it was robust. And then I went to go give it, and my God, all hell broke loose.
It was a 104-page, dense

Speaker 5 academic economics paper with a 150-page appendix.

Speaker 1 Okay?

Speaker 1 Jeez.

Speaker 5 It was posted for four minutes when I got my first email. This is full of

Speaker 5 doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 And I wrote back, how'd you read it that fast?

Speaker 1 That's amazing. You are a genius.

Speaker 5 And I had colleagues take me into

Speaker 5 the side and say,

Speaker 5 don't publish this.

Speaker 5 You'll ruin your career.

Speaker 5 I say, what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 I said, what's wrong with it?

Speaker 5 Do you believe the first part? Yes.

Speaker 5 Do Do you believe the second part?

Speaker 5 Well,

Speaker 5 the issue is they just don't fit together.

Speaker 5 We like the first one, but you should publish the second one another time. I said, let me ask this.
If the second part about the police shootings, this is a literal conversation,

Speaker 5 I said to them, if the second part

Speaker 5 Showed bias, do you think I would should publish it then? And they said, yeah, then it would make sense.

Speaker 5 And I said, I guarantee you I'll publish it. We'll see what happens.

Speaker 5 So it was, it was, you know, I lived under

Speaker 5 police protection for about 30 or 40 days. I had a seven-day-old

Speaker 5 daughter at the time. I remember going and shopping for her because, you know, when you have a newborn, you think you have enough diapers, you don't.

Speaker 5 So I was going to the grocery store to get diapers with the armed guard. It was crazy.
It was really, truly crazy.

Speaker 1 For just saying the truth and saying, hey, maybe police aren't intentionally trying to commit a genocide on African Americans. Like something that I think everyone in their heart actually knows.

Speaker 1 But the evidence showed that it was true. And because he published actual evidence about actual things that go on in our country, he had to live under police protection for months.

Speaker 1 Let me just leave it at this.

Speaker 1 Shut up, you fat witch.

Speaker 1 All right. Inflation starts off as a subtle creeping thing.
You might not even really feel it at first, but then slowly you start to notice that your money isn't going that far.

Speaker 1 Shopping cart full of groceries costs two or three times what it used to. Do you see that the

Speaker 1 Easter meal, the

Speaker 1 average Easter meal is $200 per person?

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 My God, that's outrageous. The gas pump starting to look more and more like a hungry monster with jagged teeth.
Your dollar just isn't worth as much.

Speaker 1 And they're going to keep printing money, and it's going to become worth less and less until it's worthless.

Speaker 1 That's why you have to have some of your money. Please protect some of your money by putting it in precious metals.
I want you to call and find, do your own homework. Please don't take my word for it.

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Speaker 1 You're listening to the Glenn Beck program.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Glenn Beck program. My name is Glenn Beck, along with my executive producer, Mr.
Stu Brigier. And of course, the woman who orchestrates and what, how did she used to say that?

Speaker 1 Engineers and orchestrates.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Engineers and Orchestrates Our Music.

Speaker 1 I don't remember her name, but she's here as well. We're taking her down to the juicing room

Speaker 1 to,

Speaker 1 because she's, well, she's not turning violet violet. She's just turning kind of a tequila color, I think.

Speaker 1 You're not. So, Sarah, we'll get the, yeah,

Speaker 1 we'll just, we'll try to squeeze some of that out of you. It is Good Friday,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 we thought we would spend some time. I think Easter is the holiest day of the year.
It is, you know, we celebrate Christmas and we make a big deal out of the birth of Christ, but it's really

Speaker 1 the birth isn't as important as important as his life, what he did, and the choices he made, and the choice to

Speaker 1 die for all of us and rise again. That's Good Friday and Easter.

Speaker 1 You know, it's interesting to me. We've been

Speaker 1 It's kind of like we're looking for a president to solve all of our problems. We got to get this guy elected so he'll solve all our problems.
Our problems are still going to be there no matter who we

Speaker 1 you know who we elect.

Speaker 1 And I think we're missing the point, just as in Jesus' day, they expected a warrior that was going to conquer the Romans for him.

Speaker 1 No, that's not what he came to do.

Speaker 1 He came to do something bigger and more important, and he did set the world on fire, but he didn't fight the foe

Speaker 1 everybody thought was the biggest foe. It's not.

Speaker 1 It's not, and nothing has changed. So, welcome in the conqueror,

Speaker 1 the Christus,

Speaker 1 with love and humility this weekend. More in a minute:

Speaker 1 The Glenn Beck Program. These are difficult times for the Republic.
We're printing money literally

Speaker 1 like it's going out of style. We are borrowing and printing $1 trillion

Speaker 1 every 100 days.

Speaker 1 Who are we borrowing it from? The Fed.

Speaker 1 This is something that they swore to me 20 years ago. That will never happen.
You know what that would cause? Yeah, I do know what it would cause.

Speaker 1 how come you forgot the argument that you made to me of why you would never do it

Speaker 1 the answer here is put yourself on a different standard the gold standard and i'm not suggesting you put more than 10 or 20 percent of your your what you have

Speaker 1 uh for your retirement or anything else into physical gold or silver you may not want to put any in but do your own homework get your free wealth protection guide lear will also credit your account $250 toward the purchase of gold or silver.

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Speaker 7 Have no room

Speaker 7 to compromise.

Speaker 7 We gotta stay together.

Speaker 7 And if we're gonna survive,

Speaker 7 stay the straight

Speaker 7 and hold the line.

Speaker 7 It's a new day, a time to rise.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the fusion of entertainment

Speaker 1 and enlightenment.

Speaker 1 This is the Glenn Beck program.

Speaker 1 Hello, America. Welcome to Good Friday.

Speaker 1 So, do we even know what reality is even more?

Speaker 1 Do we know? I mean, honestly, it is like we have slipped through some sort of Marvel Universe wormhole and we're on Earth 36

Speaker 1 and most of us don't know how we got here what wait what what does that mean we don't even know what reality is well let's work on that in 60 seconds

Speaker 1 my pillow has been around you know for a long time I mean not since the you know men going out wilderness hunt mountain lion well actually

Speaker 1 it is happening here, but you know, that's a real man. Anyway,

Speaker 1 at home at night, warm in bed with comfortable sheets, that's about as manly as I really, you know, get. Well, I brought home the sheets and they're coffee.

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Speaker 1 Okay, you're standing in a bookstore and you're looking at the rack,

Speaker 1 and all kinds of titles are facing you, and one sticks out:

Speaker 1 The Story of Reality.

Speaker 1 How do you not pick that book up?

Speaker 1 The story of reality.

Speaker 1 It's written by Greg Kukul.

Speaker 1 Sorry, Kochal.

Speaker 1 It's a story

Speaker 1 of really what is meaningful, how we got here,

Speaker 1 how the world began, how it ends,

Speaker 1 and everything important that happened in between.

Speaker 1 It's author, the author of

Speaker 1 The Story of Reality, Greg Cochal, is with us now. Greg, how are you?

Speaker 6 Hey, Glenn. It is so great to talk with you today, especially this particular day on this particular particular topic.
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 You bet. So

Speaker 1 first, let's start with the story of reality.

Speaker 1 How does it start?

Speaker 6 Well, the subtitle is How the World Began,

Speaker 6 How It Ends, and Everything Important That Happens in Between. And as a follower of Jesus, I am looking at the way the world is laid out.

Speaker 6 As God describes it in Scripture, there is a beginning, there is an end, and there are things that happen in between that are really critical and they have to do with what happened with human beings in the beginning the whole problem of evil how god plans to solve that through his son jesus of nazareth and the ramifications that have for us at the end of the age you see this is a story uh what's really

Speaker 6 compelling about the story though and a lot of people don't realize this glenn they if they look at the bible or they think of christianity they have all these little bits and pieces that are like pieces to a puzzle, but the puzzle's never been assembled.

Speaker 6 And what I've tried to do here,

Speaker 6 and anybody can do this who goes through the account in the scripture, is to put that together piece by piece,

Speaker 6 following the plot line from beginning to end, so people can get a picture of the entire story. But the unique thing about this story, Glenn, is it doesn't start with the words once upon a time.

Speaker 6 It's not a fiction, it is the true story of reality.

Speaker 6 And what I've tried to do in this book is to show the elegance of the story, the greatness of the drama from the beginning to the end so people understand

Speaker 6 how the world actually works, what reality is really like, so they could live in tune with it, especially in tune with the author of reality, God himself, through his son, Jesus of Nazareth.

Speaker 1 You know, I have always been convinced that if, you know, the

Speaker 1 10 commandments were called, you know, today were just called

Speaker 1 Mo's 10 safety tips. Everybody would do them because

Speaker 1 it's all common sense. Reality is what it is.
And we have completely detached from universal truths. And that is God.
Everything is a pattern. It's math.
It's a universal truth.

Speaker 1 You do this and this will happen.

Speaker 1 There are things that you just cannot

Speaker 1 change, no matter how much you want to. And we reject it because it's Christianity or it's God or it's church or whatever.

Speaker 1 Do you see what I mean, Greg?

Speaker 6 I do.

Speaker 6 I think the biggest reason is, look, everybody wants to do their own thing, ultimately. What is the slogan of the age? You do you.

Speaker 6 And that means you don't bend your knee to anyone and certainly not God. And so people are going off doing their own thing.

Speaker 6 And of course, when you break the rules, when you don't live according to reality, things are going to go south on you because reality has a way of bumping into you and injuring you when you don't, right?

Speaker 6 When you don't take it seriously. One of the things that I've noticed, though, I've been a follower of Jesus for 50 years.

Speaker 6 And I'm a defender of Christianity. I'm an apologist by trade, okay?

Speaker 6 One of the things that I noticed about the story of reality, as it's described in scripture, is that so many points comport with common sense. And this is what you just mentioned a moment ago, Glenn.

Speaker 6 So many things that we see in scripture, if we're willing to acknowledge it, fit the world the way we actually experience the world, all right?

Speaker 6 Even the idea that human beings don't want to bend their knee. And by the way, that is the classic definition of truth.

Speaker 6 When you have a point of view or a belief or an idea that actually fits the way the world is, that means your view is true.

Speaker 6 And this is one of the things I'm totally convinced about the story of reality. It is true, and there are ramifications to getting it right.
And that's why I wrote the book, The Story of Reality.

Speaker 1 And isn't that what the whole message of the Bible is? Because it's really basically the same story over and over and over and over again.

Speaker 1 You read the stories and you're like, okay, different place, different people, but I'm seeing the same thing I saw three chapters before. I mean,

Speaker 1 how are we missing this? You know,

Speaker 1 people making the same mistakes.

Speaker 6 Time changes, human beings don't change. We learn from the very beginning something very special about human beings.

Speaker 6 God made human beings to be in friendship with him and he made them like him in a very important way. The story says we are made in the image of God.
And that's not our physical bodies.

Speaker 6 That's our invisible selves. Our souls bear his mark.
And Glenn, this is what informs every single moral obligation that we have towards other human beings.

Speaker 6 We don't have the same moral obligations to Fifi and Fido that we have to other human beings. Some people have that confused nowadays, but most of us get this.
But why is it like that?

Speaker 6 We realize that's the case, even without the Bible. Yet the story of reality, God's story, tells us why.
Because God made us to be in friendship with him. But you know what?

Speaker 6 God, man got himself in a heap of trouble, didn't he? He didn't want to bend his knee. He rebelled against God, and that is what caused all the problem.
People complain about the problem of evil.

Speaker 6 The story tells where that came from. That's in chapter 3.
And the next 66 books

Speaker 6 are meant to explain how God solved that problem. And he solved that problem by coming to earth in the person of Jesus of Nazareth to rescue us.

Speaker 6 And this weekend, of course, is one of the most important weekends in our calendar, reflecting on exactly what he did to accomplish that end.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 I'm struck now by

Speaker 1 the biggest problem that I think we have.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it's really simple. We will not recognize or bend our knee to truth.
We want it our way. We want to do it our way.

Speaker 1 And as a former, you know, a recovering alcoholic, I have to tell you, it doesn't end well. It never ends well.

Speaker 1 And this weekend is all about forgiveness, forgiving yourself, forgiving others, and humbling yourself just as Christ did. I mean,

Speaker 1 there was no more humiliating death at the time than being nailed to a cross.

Speaker 1 It was the most humiliating thing a man could go through in that culture at that time.

Speaker 1 He humbled himself.

Speaker 1 Our country would be fixed if we could humble ourselves, ask for forgiveness, make a list of all the things we in the country have done, and just say, you know what, we don't want to live like that anymore.

Speaker 1 Help us. We'll do it the way you want us to do it.
And our country would be fixed overnight. But people think that's too easy.

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 6 it's not too easy when you think about human nature, Glenn. And you're right.

Speaker 6 Jesus humbled himself. He came down from heaven.
That's an act of humility right there. And then he served human beings.
That's another act of humility.

Speaker 6 And then he died, as one translator puts it, Philippians chapter 2, where Paul's writing, the death of a common criminal. So Jesus is the model of humility, okay?

Speaker 6 And I think you're right.

Speaker 6 What happens with humility, though, is it doesn't happen on a national scale. It happens when individuals do it.
Now, when a lot of individuals do the same thing,

Speaker 6 then something happens nationally. That's what's called revival.

Speaker 6 But the humiliation that the humility that we're to observe is the precise thing that that is necessary before God, who's the first one we've offended.

Speaker 6 You know, in Psalm 51, David's great prayer of contrition, he said, God, against you and you only have I sinned. Now, of course, he sinned against Bathsheba.

Speaker 6 You know, he sinned against her husband Uriah, but he saw that the sin was against God.

Speaker 6 And when we individually come before God and beat our breast and we say, as Jesus described in the parable, Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Speaker 6 That's when it changes for every single one of us individually.

Speaker 6 And the more we do that as a community, the more that transforms the community, which like it did in the Mediterranean region, the whole known world at the time, when Christianity slowly began to take over that region as people did exactly what we're talking about.

Speaker 1 You know, I want to, one of my big fears now

Speaker 1 in our culture is, and I think most people feel this, is that there's a chance we would go to civil war, which is, I don't know about you, but I don't want to live like Haiti,

Speaker 1 a really bad idea.

Speaker 1 But people feel like, well, our back is up against the wall. What are we going to do? Well, vote for one.

Speaker 1 But one of the things that people have a hard time with is forgiving. somebody who is still constantly injuring you.

Speaker 1 And that gets your back up And you just want to go at them because you're sick and tired of the lies about you and about whatever it is.

Speaker 1 That's not the way to go. I want to talk to you about the role of forgiveness, and how do you even do that when we come back in 60 seconds standby?

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It is a lot of trouble. It is a lot of work.
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10 seconds, station ID.

Speaker 1 So there's conflict everywhere. We're in a politically intense election year.
We're constantly dealing with the cancel culture.

Speaker 1 And we are in a society now that just says there is no forgiveness. How do we forgive?

Speaker 6 Well, Clint, the hardest thing to do in our lives is to forgive other people. I can't imagine a more difficult thing, all right?

Speaker 6 And the reason it's hard for us to give is forgive, to forgive, is that forgiveness always comes at a price.

Speaker 6 We have to personally pay a price to forgive other people. Here's that price.
Forgiveness, in its simplest sense, is releasing a debt. Someone owes you, you let it go.

Speaker 6 You know, the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples, the Lord's Prayer, uses that language. Forgive us our debts, Or in some translations, forgive us our trespasses.

Speaker 6 And that last line is that last word, trespass. This is important because that's really what we're talking about.
Our trespass against God, Jesus is saying we should ask for forgiveness for.

Speaker 6 And he adds, as we forgive others, right?

Speaker 6 And so when we forgive others, a trespass against us, we have to let that go. That's the price.
We are saying, we're not going to take our pound of flesh out of you.

Speaker 6 We are not going to get our paybacks.

Speaker 6 We are going to let

Speaker 6 it go.

Speaker 6 Now, that's really hard to do. I'll tell you something, though.
It's a whole lot easier when we realize that

Speaker 6 as a follower of Jesus and trusting in him for our own forgiveness, so much has been forgiven us individually that we are then able to forgive others. And this is what Jesus made that comment.

Speaker 6 He had a parable about it. Paul says the same thing.
He says, be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving, forgiving each other just as God in Christ has forgiven you. Now,

Speaker 6 you know this. If people haven't forgiven other people, they are not going to be very, if people haven't been forgiven, they are not going to be very likely to forgive other people.

Speaker 6 That's the first step, getting straight with God.

Speaker 1 So, you know, a lot of people, when you say

Speaker 1 forgive others,

Speaker 1 and even those who are currently trespassing and doing it gleefully, it is really hard to forgive them. Why is it important to forgive them even if they're currently doing it?

Speaker 1 And doesn't that just make you weak?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 6 it didn't make Jesus weak. Jesus was the strongest man that ever existed, right?

Speaker 6 Because he knew who he was. He knew where he was going back to the Father.
And he was able then to be a servant and then forgive. And he knew the power of forgiveness.

Speaker 6 He was willing to pay that price on behalf of others. Now, like I said, this is one of the hardest things to do because it requires us, it costs us something.

Speaker 6 It requires us to pay a price, just just like it costs God to forgive us. That price was Jesus on the cross, which is appropriate to talk about today because it's Good Friday.
Okay. So

Speaker 6 God is asking us, what do we forgive to pay a price? But there is a payback for us too. And I'm talking now in kind of spiritual terms.

Speaker 6 We have been forgiven by God if we put our trust in the Savior, the rescuer, and that gives us a grounds to forgive others.

Speaker 6 But let's just say you have folks out there who say, I'm not having any of that. That's not my deal.
All right. I'll tell you what, unforgiveness corrupts your own soul.
All right? Think about this.

Speaker 6 Unforgiveness is a kind of revenge. If you have an attitude of anger and hostility towards other people who have hurt you, you are trying to get revenge on them.
I'm going to get back at you.

Speaker 6 I'm going to be angry. Take that.
All this hostility

Speaker 6 coming out, that rarely hurts the other person person we're trying to hurt. It hurts us.
It destroys our soul.

Speaker 6 And you probably heard of the old saying, you know, if you're out for revenge, you better dig two graves.

Speaker 6 Unforgiveness hurts us more than anything else. So even out of self-interest, even out of self-interest, people who are hurt by others need to work at forgiving and just letting that go.

Speaker 6 Now, that doesn't mean we say, oh, that did hurt. That wasn't a crime against me.
That wasn't vicious. That wasn't mean.

Speaker 6 No, God looks hard at our sin and he acknowledges the reality of that sin, which is why he had Jesus pay for it. However, the same thing with us.
We don't just say, no big deal. It is a big deal.

Speaker 6 But in light of it being a big deal, we are willing to say, I'm just going to let it go, even if that's just for our own soullish well-being.

Speaker 1 Greg Kochl, thank you so much. He is the stand of reason founder and president.
The book that he's talking about is The Story of Reality.

Speaker 1 If you're going to somebody's house for Easter, it would make a great, hey, thank you for dinner gift. The importance of forgiveness and the story of reality.

Speaker 1 Glenn Beck.

Speaker 1 Have you ever walked by your dog's food bowl, looked down at it, and thought, hmm, man, that looks really good?

Speaker 1 No?

Speaker 1 Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Because I'm guessing it's not really good, okay? Unfortunately for your dog, it's not particularly nutritious either.

Speaker 1 Do you know they bake all at a very high temperature? They cook everything that's really kind of good for the dog out of it. It has to stay on a shelf for two years.
What is good left in that?

Speaker 1 And it doesn't taste that good. They spray flavor on it.
It comes out of the, you know, the big, huge oven, and then they just spray flavor on it. That's what your dog is eating all the time.

Speaker 1 Look, put the nutrients and the vitamins, the minerals, all of the probiotics, everything that your dog needs back into his food bowl. They will gobble it.
At least mine does.

Speaker 1 And I've never heard another story of

Speaker 1 people saying, No, my dog just wouldn't eat it. It's not a dog food, it's a supplement you put on your dog's food.

Speaker 1 It not only makes it taste better for your dog, so they'll finish their whole meal, but also it has all the good stuff in it.

Speaker 1 Roughgreens.com/slash Beck, 833 Glenn33, 833 Glenn33, RoughGreens.com slash Beck.

Speaker 1 You are listening to

Speaker 1 the Hall of Fame broadcaster Glenn Beck. And let me tell you something.
The Hall of Fame being inducted in the Hall of Fame is a lot like a marriage. It's important.
You're in shape.

Speaker 1 You look the best you ever will look because after you're inducted into marriage or the Hall of Fame, you just don't care anymore and you let it all go. So welcome to the program.

Speaker 1 Please expect mediocrity and maybe someday you'll be surprised.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the program. We say hi to Rick Burgess, who is a good friend of ours and also does the Rick and Bubba show on Blaze and radio stations all across America.
Hi, Rick. How are you?

Speaker 3 So you're up in the Hall of Fame, man, are you?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 you can't tell. I don't care anymore.
I'm going to check that out. Yeah, I'm Glenn Beck.
I'm in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 3 Here's Rick.

Speaker 1 He does a show with us, but they're not in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 1 Which means your show is good because you're still striving for something.

Speaker 1 Rick Burgess

Speaker 1 is not only the co-host of Rick and Bubba, but he is also the Man Church founder. And I do want to know, the Man Church, does that include men who can have babies?

Speaker 1 It does not. You know,

Speaker 3 we don't apologize for God's standard. We kind of figure out since he created them male and female

Speaker 3 in the beginning. He went on record for his standard for marriage and gender.
And nowhere throughout scripture do we find him changing that standard. So we're going to stick with that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but he's all about forgiveness, really. And who understands forgiveness more than people that make mistakes? I mean, because that's what they're saying.

Speaker 1 God made some sort of mistake, and I'm neither male or female.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, again, you know,

Speaker 3 it's here's human beings as we've done since we've been created.

Speaker 3 You know, if you go back to the garden, and this is really where this began, what human beings were convinced of was that God said, here's everything you'll ever need. Okay, I'm asking you one thing.

Speaker 3 Let me decide what is right and wrong and trust that my barriers are blessings. And what human beings were convinced is, no, he's holding out on us.

Speaker 3 There's something we would like to decide what is right and wrong. We don't trust you to decide it.
And then came the downfall.

Speaker 3 And we keep making that mistake in our sin nature that somehow we know right and wrong better than God does.

Speaker 1 So, you know, I know you've written a book, Sin Always Matters.

Speaker 1 But I kind of

Speaker 1 look at creation just a little bit different.

Speaker 1 He wanted us to choose

Speaker 1 good over evil. He wants us, if he's his dad, he does not want blind faith.
Oh, everybody says you're great, dad. I don't have any questions about it.
He wants you to personally know him.

Speaker 1 And that's why we came here was for freedom of choice. And everything that is happening in our world today is

Speaker 1 going against that freedom of choice.

Speaker 3 Well, you look at this, I always use this analogy when it talks about God is sovereign. There's no doubt about that.
I'm not, and please don't hear me taking away that he is sovereign.

Speaker 3 He is all-knowing.

Speaker 1 He needs time. Yeah, he's above time.

Speaker 3 He sees the beginning and he sees the end all at the same time. We don't.

Speaker 3 But think about it. You have children.
I have children. And I always use this analogy.

Speaker 3 So you take your kids out when they were small and you want to go over to the Chick-fil-A at the mall and get them something to eat and you need them to sit at the table when they're still small enough that they could run around and you say hey guys sit here at the table dad's going to go get the food the reason why I want you to stay at this table is because if you wander around this mall there's people unfortunately that might grab you you might fall something might happen I might lose you so my barriers right now are a blessing I'm protecting you by you sitting at the table while dad walks over here and gets the food but what if you took out then a bike chain and you chained them to the chairs and you turn around and they're sitting there, but they really couldn't leave.

Speaker 3 So that doesn't really bring any glory to you. It doesn't even mean that they even trust that you're right.

Speaker 3 But what if they have the freedom to run anywhere they want to and they choose to sit there and look at you when you turn around with that tray of food, you look and you say, now that brings me glory.

Speaker 3 They trust me. They love me.
They believe that I'm right.

Speaker 1 And the only thing that makes them run around would be arrogance that they think they know better

Speaker 1 or just flat-out rebellion.

Speaker 1 And that is the weird thing about truth.

Speaker 1 We have destroyed truth and claim that there is no truth. There is no right, there is no wrong.

Speaker 1 And that's just us being in rebellion.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 the truth never changes. So the more you're in rebellion, the more you're going to fall and get hurt, or somebody bad at the mall is going to grab one of you.

Speaker 1 By denying the truth, sin,

Speaker 1 you are going to feel a consequence. And Dad is just the one who has been up there saying the whole time,

Speaker 1 don't do that.

Speaker 1 Don't do that. Don't do that.
You're going to leave him. Okay, well, you've done it.

Speaker 3 And we see God's barriers as him being a killjoy. We don't see his barriers as being a blessing.
He's actually looking out after us. And that's the reason why today on Good Friday,

Speaker 3 the devotional sin always matters. It's the cost of sin and the power of grace.
Here's how, and I've done this, I've been guilty of this, so this is not a self-righteous thing to say.

Speaker 3 I'm just reminding us. When we look to the cross today, because of our human nature and our arrogance, it's all, and this is not incorrect, but I want to walk this all the way out.

Speaker 3 We see the brutality and how horrible the price Jesus paid on the cross, the cross, the brutality of the cross. And our first thought is, what? Look how much God loves me.

Speaker 3 Which that's not wrong, so don't hear me saying that's wrong. Look how much God loves me.
But here's what this 31-day devotional wants to challenge us from the Word of God.

Speaker 3 We need to also look and say, wow, look how serious God takes sin. Wow, that's brutal.
So sin to a holy, holy God is really, really horrible, and he hates sin.

Speaker 3 And see, if we understand that, we'll never cheapen his grace.

Speaker 1 So tell me about the devotional. It's what, 31 days? Right?

Speaker 3 31 days. You know, and like I say, this is for men or women.

Speaker 3 Now, it is another resource we have from themanchurch.com, which that is a ministry that God called me to where we reach and disciple men because of the headship and the influence of men.

Speaker 3 You know, we see this all the time in every survey. So we said, why don't we spend our time? Because when you see men outside of the authority of Christ, we're always problematic.

Speaker 1 We cause the most damage,

Speaker 3 but how about this? If we're under the authority of Christ, we also,

Speaker 3 it resolves resolves a lot of problems in the family, in the church, and in society. And so we did this latest devotional.
It was 31 days. It takes us on a journey to see how God sees sin.

Speaker 3 Now, you're going to see his mercy and his grace in here, but right out of the gate, day one, God's attitude towards sin.

Speaker 3 And what you'll find is Scripture has always told us God actually hates sin, which is why we must repent.

Speaker 3 This attitude, this universalism that has crept in to our world right now, and that, hey, everybody's going to heaven. It doesn't really matter.
God loves you just like you are.

Speaker 3 No, God will meet us right where we are, but then he calls us to repentance. Jesus Christ hit the ground preaching repentance.

Speaker 3 Repent or perish. And that means to turn away from our sin, leave faith in ourself, put our faith in God and beg for his mercy and beg for his forgiveness.

Speaker 3 But what we've done, especially as men, we've taken a God who is the beginning and the end, who is holy, holy, holy, the great I am, and we call him the big man upstairs.

Speaker 3 Well, you know why we call him the big man upstairs? And I did it in my life. I did this because it makes him easier to sin against.

Speaker 3 I don't fear the big man upstairs. Now, I fear the great I am.
I fear the beginning and the end. I fear holy, holy, holy.

Speaker 3 So if I don't want to fear God, then I just dumb him down to something that's easier to sin against. But that is a lie from the pits of hell, and it's going to cost you if you don't correct it.

Speaker 1 So I always view God

Speaker 1 as the ultimate dad.

Speaker 1 And it helps me understand how

Speaker 1 why he hates sin. He hates sin because it's going to leave a mark on us.
And no dad wants his children scarred up and hurt and lost in the wilderness.

Speaker 1 So he's just saying, please, listen, this will leave a mark. This will be bad.
But the amazing thing that he has the power over that our dads don't is he can take all of the bad stuff that we've done.

Speaker 1 And when we ask for forgiveness and we work that forgiveness, he takes all of the bad things that we've done and somehow or another works them into just an unbelievable mosaic.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 3 he makes all things new. That's one of the most beautiful things you'll hear in scripture.
And Jesus says this in the Revelation when he has already paid the price.

Speaker 3 You know, right now we tend to think that Jesus is still that baby, and Jesus is still the suffering servant, and Jesus is still hanging on the cross. He is not.
He has returned to his glory.

Speaker 3 And let me assure you, when he does come back for his church or you die your earthly death, you're not going to be in front of the baby Jesus. You're going to be in front of the glorified Jesus

Speaker 3 that John sees in the Revelation. But here's the beauty of what you said, Glenn.
Jesus said, I paid the price, and I transform everyone who repents into something new. But

Speaker 3 what this devotional wants to remind us that that truth is all throughout this devotional, but it also reminds us not to be flippant about our sin. I think about it in my own life.

Speaker 3 I have been forgiven of much sin, Glenn, but there's also some earthly damage that my sin has done that I can't correct on this side of heaven. Now, one day it will all be resolved.

Speaker 3 You know, look at King David. I love when men, when they are like in ministry and they have this great moral failure.
Well, you know, I see myself a lot like David. First of all, I think, wow,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 what an arrogant statement.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 3 you have to also look at David's repercussions for his sin. David's life on earth because of his sin was an absolute mess.
I mean, his baby with Bathsheba, God killed the baby.

Speaker 3 It says that in scripture. God made the baby ill.
Absalom, one of his sons, tries to overthrow him and kill him.

Speaker 3 He's lying on his deathbed telling Solomon, hey,

Speaker 3 you need to kill Joab because he's now got a faction against you.

Speaker 3 His whole family was completely turned upside down. Was David forgiven? Yes.

Speaker 3 Is he a man after God's own heart? Yes. Why? Because he finally realized that his sin wasn't just against other people.
Uriah filled the blank, filling the blank. You know when he repented?

Speaker 3 When he realized his sin was against the holy God. And that's what we've got to do today.
We have to remember that part of it, too, or we'll never understand the cross.

Speaker 1 Rick, thank you so much. Thanks for everything.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 You guys are really the best.

Speaker 3 Hey, you are always so good and kind, speaking of grace and gracious to us, and we appreciate that. Love being on the Blaze team with you.

Speaker 3 And thank you so much for giving me access to your platform for people to have an opportunity maybe to study the Word of God. And as it has transformed me, it'll transform them too.

Speaker 1 What is mine is yours. Thanks, Rick.
God bless. Rick Burgess from the Rick and Bubba Show, also the founder of the Man Church.
You can find his devotional now at themanchurch.com, themanchurch.com.

Speaker 1 All right. Our sponsor this half hour is Patriot Mobile.

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Speaker 1 This is the Glenn Beck program.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Glen Beck Program.

Speaker 1 Returning from the Mountain West

Speaker 1 back home to Dallas on Monday, we've got a great week of shows set up for you next week.

Speaker 1 We've appreciated your time away as we've been able to keep the temperature at human temperature, or the studio at human temperatures for the past couple of weeks, which has been nice.

Speaker 1 You're out up in somewhat cold weather still.

Speaker 1 Yes, it's snowing. It's snowing again today.
Again. But it's beautiful.
I love it. It is beautiful.

Speaker 1 I love it. I love it.
Except for the... Well, the mountain lion has been kind of a scary thing.
I just heard that one of the people that worked the ranch

Speaker 1 said last night when I told him him that there have been reports of a mountain lion of unusual size reported on my ranch.

Speaker 1 And what, two days ago, I heard something scream, might have been a small child or a rabbit, I don't know, as a big kitty, kitty, kitty cat apparently ripped its throat out.

Speaker 1 scare the living daylight.

Speaker 1 And then I find out last night that somebody on the ranch actually had some hunters up here with dogs and they were on the property and they were like hey hey what are you doing and they're like we're just we're hunting this big cat that is is up here on this land and they turned him away and I'm like guys I don't care if it's a kitty cat go for it I don't want to no no that's my mountain lion no no I don't want it eating my children me grandchildren it's spooky to walk out here at night yeah that's like the ghostbusters Ghostbusters thing.

Speaker 1 If someone asks you if you're a god, you say yes. If someone says they're here to hunt a giant mountain lion on your property, you just say yes.
You say yes.

Speaker 1 I'm like,

Speaker 1 can I get you a drink? Can I get you a Coke? Anything? Do you need anything? No.

Speaker 1 Please, you're welcome. We've got a buffet set up.
What do you need? What do you need to make your stay more comfortable?

Speaker 1 Not fun, but it'll be great to be back in the studio with you

Speaker 1 and Sarah, which kind of is like a mountain lion a little bit, but that's why we give her booze to drink.

Speaker 1 That way she doesn't rip any of our throats out.

Speaker 1 Have you thought about just putting out little water dishes around, but just filling it with tequila and hoping maybe the mountain lion starts drinking it?

Speaker 1 The Glenn Beck Program.

Speaker 1 Got no room

Speaker 1 to compromise.

Speaker 1 We gotta stay together

Speaker 1 if we're gonna survive.

Speaker 1 Stand up straight

Speaker 1 and hold the line.

Speaker 1 It's a new day, I tell you right.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the fusion

Speaker 1 of entertainment and enlightenment.

Speaker 1 This is the Glenn Beck program.

Speaker 1 Just over 2,000 years ago, a simple man

Speaker 1 that the world really didn't know, some loved him, some hated him, most just went with the crowd,

Speaker 1 carried a cross after being beaten mercilessly

Speaker 1 and was nailed to the cross. It's not like it is in the movies.

Speaker 1 In fact, it's very little like it is in the movies. Why is this story important?

Speaker 1 Why is the resurrection important? And

Speaker 1 I really want to talk to Christians because there's so many Christians who are like, Yeah, well, I don't know, he really rose from the dead.

Speaker 1 Well, then, who are you?

Speaker 1 What are you doing?

Speaker 1 Why are you even going to church? Why are you following this? That is the whole point of the story.

Speaker 1 Starts at the birth, but it all leads up, he's only here for that one act of service and then the resurrection.

Speaker 1 We're going to talk to an expert on crucifixion

Speaker 1 and resurrection.

Speaker 1 In fact, he wrote the book, Did Jesus Rise from the Dead?

Speaker 1 His name is Gary

Speaker 1 Habermas, and he is with us. He is Liberty University Apologetics and Philosophy Professor.
Why

Speaker 1 is the resurrection important?

Speaker 1 It's Good Friday. We begin in 60 seconds.

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Speaker 1 Gary Habermas is with us, Liberty University Apologetics and Philosophy Professor. Gary, welcome to the program.

Speaker 3 Glad to be with you on such a wonderful day that deserves some celebration, as you've already noted.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you know, I mean, I don't, I guess today does as well because this is the atonement.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 Sunday is the real celebratory day. I don't think we take enough time on Good Friday to really understand what this man went through.

Speaker 3 Yeah, absolutely. He was,

Speaker 3 you know, the movie The Passion, people, it was called all kinds of things by people who didn't like it. Pornographic of violence was one of the phrases I remember.

Speaker 3 But there is a reference in ancient history to people being beaten for punishments.

Speaker 3 And the ancient source says that they whipped the men until their

Speaker 3 organs fell out.

Speaker 3 And that that even surpasses the passion. But all I'm saying is, and that was only the prequel to the crucifixion.
So this is a very serious event. And what we portray is not overdone.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 when they crucified people, they weren't on big tall crosses like we see.

Speaker 1 They were street level and almost eye level, so people coming into the town would know this is what happens to people if you do these things, right?

Speaker 3 Correct, because the men were talking to each other. And if you remember the scene at the end where Jesus is pierced with the spear, now he's already dead.

Speaker 3 And by the way, I'll just add, we have a Roman reference that says the same thing,

Speaker 3 that the centurion could allow the family to take the dead body of the crucified person. When they were taken down, they were dead, and they were given one last blow.

Speaker 3 And the Latin word that's used means, it's a military term for using an axe, a spear, or a sword.

Speaker 3 But anyway, my point is, if you're low enough that a person could stab you with a Roman short spear, yes, you're closer to the ground than a lot of the depictions.

Speaker 1 So I thought that it was unusual to take the body and bury it

Speaker 1 because from what I learned about crucifixion,

Speaker 1 part of it was the dogs would come and eat some of the flesh, and it just made it more grisly for visitors. Hey, come to our town.
Don't end up like this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and birds, too.

Speaker 3 But of course, your point about the dogs, that shows you how much closer they are to the ground.

Speaker 3 By the way, Romans often did leave victims on the cross. Thousands were crucified outside Jerusalem in the Jewish War, 66 to 70 A.D.

Speaker 3 However, Josephus, the Jewish historian, tells us that Jews had such

Speaker 3 respect for bodies that even crucifix victims, I mean criminals if they were, even criminals' bodies were taken down and buried. So

Speaker 3 Jewish tradition is an exception to the stain on the cross.

Speaker 1 Do you have any idea when they started crucifixion? How it started, when it started?

Speaker 3 Yeah, it goes way back before the Romans, back to the Assyrians, and even before that, and was practiced around the eastern end of the Mediterranean.

Speaker 3 But all the way up in Italy, you remember the story of Spartacus and the slaves and crucifying the people down

Speaker 3 the Appian Way

Speaker 3 near Rome.

Speaker 3 And they were talking about lighting people on fire and being,

Speaker 3 in particular, Nero,

Speaker 3 lighting them to be torches in the night. So that's just kind of how,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 it's not enough to be beaten up, it's not enough to be hung and then burned.

Speaker 3 So I can't think of a worse way to die.

Speaker 1 Is there anything in particular that you read in the scriptures about this day

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 you can really truly show the evidence in the scriptures and go, that

Speaker 1 we know is absolutely true because of X, Y, and Z?

Speaker 3 Yeah, there's actually a couple. I co-authored an article

Speaker 3 2021, four years ago, three years ago, with two other people, one a... a neurologist, MD, Ph.D., and another researcher.
And what we did was we didn't try to prove how Jesus died.

Speaker 3 We simply did a head count of medical views. And by far, the most common view, double all the other views put together, was that in crucifixion, the victims asphyxiate.

Speaker 3 And what happens is when you stretch out in that condition,

Speaker 3 and by the way, the closer your hands are to your head, the closer your arms are brought up, the faster you asphyxiate.

Speaker 1 And of course,

Speaker 3 when someone starts asphyxiating, you say, well, then how soon is it over? Well, believe it or not, medical doctors, even in Nazi Germany in the Middle East,

Speaker 3 crucifixion is still performed. And they did experiments where they didn't hurt the person.
They didn't use nails, but they did it.

Speaker 3 And the men at one experiment lost consciousness in a maximum of 12 minutes. They lost consciousness.
You say, well, then, how would it explain the three hours? It would be over fast.

Speaker 3 Well, the issue is you could push down on those nails in your feet. And when you push up, anti-gravity, but you had to push up to breathe.

Speaker 3 And that allows you to unfreeze the muscles, the intercostal pectoral deltoid muscles that you work out in a gym, the ones around your lungs, you can free them.

Speaker 3 And so you can stay alive on a cross for more than a day by pushing up, sinking down, pushing up, sinking down. And that relieves the asphyxiation process.

Speaker 1 That's really why they break their legs, right? When they want them to die, they just break their legs. You're exactly right.

Speaker 3 And that's not the only blow. And by the way, not just in the Gospels.

Speaker 3 I just wrote a huge, almost 1,100 pages, work on crucifixion and resurrection, and I assembled a number of secular examples of people all the way up into Rome and Italy where ankles were broken.

Speaker 3 Now, there's almost no reason to break an ankle. I mean, if you're going to beat the guy up, hit him with a board, shoot an ankle.

Speaker 3 One guy was threatened with an arrow, one guy had a skull crushed with a mallet. All kinds of things happen, but why break ankles?

Speaker 3 And of course it can cause shock, but it seems the main reason is to make the person go down low. We're done.

Speaker 1 We want to go back to the barracks and play cards or something.

Speaker 3 And they break the ankles and it's over. Now it's over quickly if the person can't push up.

Speaker 3 By the way, the other reason is the spear wound in the side that I already said, where the Roman source says, this guy is already dead we took him down we laid him on the ground his his family wanted the body and so we pierced him one more time and you go where in the thigh no Roman soldiers didn't have anatomy lessons but they knew where to stab a person to drop them the quickest in battle and it makes sense they would stab them in the chest

Speaker 3 you know you don't stab the skull you so where are you going to go probably in the heart lung region would be normal and that stabbing the chest of Jesus is there so you got the crucible you got asphyxiation as being a possible way of dying you got the broken ankles that you pointed out and is backed up on archaeology and you got the spirit wound there's there's three right there to make sure that Jesus was dead

Speaker 1 So there's also something else, the humiliation of it all.

Speaker 1 I mean, this is why I had a guest earlier this week that was saying, you know, if this is all made up, they were really bad at making this up because in the ancient world the worst thing that could happen to somebody and certainly not the messiah if you're telling a story and making it up is to nail them to a tree that is the most humiliating thing you can do

Speaker 1 and then they mocked him now and

Speaker 1 I'm sure the mocking

Speaker 1 was usual but the crown of thorns was unique to him Yes. Right? Yes, believed to be a criminal.

Speaker 3 He was crucified as a criminal. And I will add this.
This is not always true,

Speaker 3 but crucifixion victims were often crucified nude. So if you want to add to the humiliation, the point you're making there, that wasn't always done, but

Speaker 3 that was a common way to do it.

Speaker 1 Do we think that that's the way he was?

Speaker 1 We have no idea.

Speaker 3 There's an in-between view, you know, and that's what's often in the paintings. They would have a garment put put around their waist,

Speaker 3 almost like when you go to play football or something, you got too many clothes on, you take the sweatshirt off and you tie it around your waist.

Speaker 3 Jesus could have had one of those deals where they just tied a modesty cloth. We don't really know if that portion was done or not done, or how much he was.

Speaker 3 He wasn't clothed totally. I mean, he was either clothed with a modesty cloth or not clothed at all, most likely.

Speaker 1 When he was crucified, you know, we always see him up on Golgotha, and he's up at the top of a hill, and it's just the three of them. Is that

Speaker 1 likely to be that way, or was he with a whole bunch of other crosses all around him?

Speaker 3 No, it seems like the three is historical.

Speaker 3 I've done so much reading on this and studied it for decades,

Speaker 3 and I don't even see, let's put it this way, I don't think scholars even bring it up.

Speaker 3 I don't remember if I've ever seen the question of whether there were more than three crosses.

Speaker 3 And I think they generally think that just like the gospel said, it makes sense that two guys were thieves. Jesus was in the middle and they talked to each other.

Speaker 3 And one of them says, remember me when

Speaker 3 you come into your kingdom. And Jesus said, today you'll be with me in paradise.
I mean,

Speaker 3 that is good historical material.

Speaker 1 All right, back in just a second with Moran. I want to move from the resurrection to the actual evidence.
Is there any physical evidence of a resurrection and why that's important?

Speaker 1 In just a second, on Good Friday,

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Speaker 1 Rules and restrictions may apply. 10-second station ID.

Speaker 1 Say the name again.

Speaker 1 Habermas.

Speaker 1 Gary Habermas is with us. He is a Liberty University apologetics and philosophy professor.

Speaker 1 You know, there are Christians, many, I think, Christians, who

Speaker 1 don't really believe in the resurrection. And I kind of wonder,

Speaker 1 what is the point of Christ other than just a really good guy? What is the point of his story if it's not for the resurrection?

Speaker 1 Am I reading that right?

Speaker 1 Well, several things here.

Speaker 3 In the New Testament, whenever the nature of the gospel is defined, it's usually in Paul or in the book of Acts, but this is the earliest preaching that even atheist New Testament scholars believe went out immediately after the cross.

Speaker 3 and the

Speaker 3 Pentecost there. The preaching involved this gospel message, and

Speaker 3 it always pertained to the deity, death, and resurrection of Christ. It was there from the beginning.
So if somebody

Speaker 3 ignores that, I mean, it's between them and God, but that's the central thing to which the way I like to say it is believers say, I do.

Speaker 3 They make a commitment to that, and that's what makes them a Christian.

Speaker 3 If someone doesn't want to believe the resurrection, I suppose they do it for social reasons or maybe for ethical reasons because Jesus is often thought of as the most ethical guy who ever lived.

Speaker 3 If you only want to look on a religion's viewpoint, he is the only religious founder, if you want to look at it that way, that is revered in all the other religions.

Speaker 3 He's considered a guru or a prophet or he's not put down.

Speaker 3 In Islam, there's almost 100 verses on Jesus. They call him Isa in the text.
Almost 100 verses. He's called virgin-born.
He's called sinless. He's called the Messiah.

Speaker 3 It's very specific in all the religions. So people might believe it for other reasons, social or ethical is my guess.

Speaker 3 If they

Speaker 3 reject the resurrection, but they shouldn't.

Speaker 1 Any historic or other evidence for the resurrection? I mean, because

Speaker 1 the argument always is, well, that's a story we always tell ourselves. That's what happened with the Greek gods and everything else.
So what makes this different from mythology?

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, now that's a good question. I spent 150 pages on it in this big book I told you about, the mythology one.
There are stories.

Speaker 3 Well, I could talk about this one for your whole program.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 3 the dying and rising gods, most scholars.

Speaker 3 Most scholars think those do not have specific resurrections, and they do not predate Christianity.

Speaker 3 One One of the four major scholars, that's his number, who says he does think there are cases like that before Christ. By the way, the guy's a Christian.

Speaker 3 He just thinks there are stories like that that had nothing to do with the resurrection. But he says

Speaker 3 he's one of only four in the world. The majority of scholars have rejected that view,

Speaker 3 that this is a pattern of dying and rising gods.

Speaker 1 Often heard, but by people who don't study the data.

Speaker 3 As far as evidence,

Speaker 3 my own argument that I've developed over the years is what I call the minimal facts argument.

Speaker 3 And to say it real quickly, you can take the facts, a few of them, just a few, a handful, you can take the data on which those handful of facts are based.

Speaker 3 They're admitted by the large majority, very high percentage of atheist New Testament scholars, agnostic New Testament scholars, skeptical New Testament scholars, non-Christian.

Speaker 3 They might be other religions, but they may be New Testament scholars. They will grant these facts.
And my point is, these facts are enough to show that Jesus is raised from the dead.

Speaker 1 The facts they allow

Speaker 3 to show us resurrection.

Speaker 1 Gary, hold on just a second. Do you mind if we hold you just for a few more minutes? Because I would like to hear more about the myths

Speaker 1 and that

Speaker 1 that's not true. I'd never heard that before.
And I want to go over those few facts with you. Next.

Speaker 1 Glenn Beck.

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Speaker 1 Gary Habermas is probably the definitive source on crucifixion and the resurrection of Christ.

Speaker 1 He just wrote an article in the Washington Post, Five Reasons to Believe That Jesus Christ Rose from the Dead.

Speaker 1 And, you know, you go into the five different things. Most scholars agree Jesus' tomb was discovered empty shortly afterwards.
But what is the

Speaker 1 you know the source of these things, these claims, this is what they'll say, are all from the apostles and from the scriptures, and those were written years

Speaker 1 afterward.

Speaker 1 What makes us believe that they just didn't

Speaker 1 come back and remember things differently?

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 3 Well, if you go from the latest backwards, the Gospel of John is plus 65 years after Jesus' death. Matthew and Luke about plus 50.
Mark about plus 30 to 40.

Speaker 3 Paul's epistles are 20 to 30 years after the cross. Actually, the first book of Paul is only 20 years after the cross.
But this is

Speaker 3 not well known. But we have dozens of sources that

Speaker 3 they're copied in the New Testament, but they were preached immediately and backed by eyewitnesses. I don't mean just reading a text that someone says of the eyewitness.

Speaker 3 Backed by eyewitnesses that critics allow, and those were around within one to three years after the cross, we can get our historical sources back to one to three years.

Speaker 3 Now compare that with the Buddhist book I have on the shelf here in my library, not putting anybody down, but he says he's a Buddhist PhD, and he says my sources for Buddha in this book are 600 to 800 years after the man died, Alexander the Great, the two best-known biographies for Alexander the Great, secular example, 450 to 475 years after Alexander died.

Speaker 3 And all the list I just gave goes from 1 to 65 years later. Paul's epistles, who is

Speaker 3 the best accredited source by critics. Critics love the guy,

Speaker 1 seriously. Why?

Speaker 3 And his epistles started just plus 20.

Speaker 1 But these early sources

Speaker 3 Paul's sites are immediately after the cross.

Speaker 1 So they agree that his tomb was discovered empty shortly afterwards, right?

Speaker 3 Now, that's a majority view. I just did a survey of 250 critical scholars, and the number who admit the empty tomb is about 80%.

Speaker 3 But the other facts in the list, that Jesus died by crucifixion, that the disciples thought they saw the risen Jesus, that they turned the world upside down, that these early sources date from the the 30s, that is much higher than 80%.

Speaker 3 So the tomb actually, empty tomb is good at 80%. We take a lot of things at less than 80%, like driving home during a storm might be less than 80%.

Speaker 3 But these other things are up in the 90s as far as what critical scholars allow. We just have a lot more data than critics admit.

Speaker 3 And people who don't study the sources, they'll say, oh, yeah, but it comes from a Christian book, and if a Christian book is prejudiced, none of it counts.

Speaker 3 Okay, you tell that to the atheist New Testament scholars, the agnostic New Testament scholars, the Jewish New Testament scholars who don't believe in Jesus and they allow all of this.

Speaker 3 So you either going to believe the eyewitnesses are you going to believe the people who sit in their homes and pontificate and haven't done any studying.

Speaker 1 And that's where

Speaker 1 they're the ones that speak the loudest.

Speaker 1 It's kind of like with our founders. You know, there are eyewitness reports of George Washington and his faith and how he lived his life, etc.

Speaker 1 And scholars today will tell you that what did that wasn't well it was written right after his death with eyewitnesses so

Speaker 1 your only choice is just to choose to believe that all of the eyewitnesses were lying for some reason. Right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, no one says that about the disciples. In the case of Jesus,

Speaker 3 I don't think there is, let's put it this way, there's not a well-known scholar who's taken the view that the disciples have been lying.

Speaker 3 There's not a well-known scholar who's taken that view for well over a hundred years. They don't go with it because they believe these guys were at least convinced personally.

Speaker 3 Whatever happened, they were convinced.

Speaker 3 And when people who are convinced go out and do things that put them in a place where they could be killed, you don't do that when you know that it's a lie and there's no truth to it.

Speaker 3 So, I mean, nobody pushes that button, not the scholars.

Speaker 1 I will tell you, I talked to a scholar years ago, Dominic Crossan,

Speaker 1 who's a friend of mine. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and he, but at least when I spoke to him, he didn't believe in the resurrection.

Speaker 3 No, he doesn't believe that. He believes the disciples thought they saw.
He believed just what I said. He will grant that Jesus died on the cross.

Speaker 3 In fact, he said the crucifixion is the surest thing we could know in the ancient world.

Speaker 3 And he believes the disciples thought they saw Jesus. He believes they preached the method.
The same facts I just gave.

Speaker 1 The disciples preached it immediately.

Speaker 3 But get this: I've got this four volumes set for the resurrection coming out, death and resurrection. Each volume is one's over a thousand pages.
The other ones are almost a thousand pages.

Speaker 3 Dom Crossman wrote a recommendation for me in the front of the book.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 He's a friend.

Speaker 3 He said, you know, we don't agree on a lot of these things, but he said, we have enough here that I can write a nice recommendation for you. And he did it.

Speaker 1 It's in the book.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 the testimonies are always, I was with him, but I didn't recognize him.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, you get some of those afterwards.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 I'd ask anybody a question.

Speaker 3 If you and I are best friends, and I haven't seen you for 30 years,

Speaker 3 I just had an experience just recently. Somebody looked at me and said, are you Gary Habermas? And we didn't recognize each other after 30 years.
We say, well, this wasn't 30 years.

Speaker 3 This was three days. Okay.
But if a person is raised in a body that was beaten up and even a much better body, the one that walked around Palestine for three years, Jesus was in good shape.

Speaker 3 I mean, he was different. How many changes does it have to take before you say,

Speaker 3 is this you?

Speaker 3 And further, a psychological problem. They didn't expect anybody to rise from the dead.
So to say, are you Jesus, is is like saying, am I seeing a ghost?

Speaker 3 So a psychological reason, but especially a physical reason, I think,

Speaker 3 well, Paul tells us that the resurrection body, it changes. You're going to change.
And I think if 30 years can do it, if 10 years can make it say, is that really you,

Speaker 3 a few days, if you have a new body, you're going to make people wonder and just ask. I don't want to be stupid, but is that you?

Speaker 3 So I think it's explainable by the fact that Paul said said he had his same body, but it was revivified, changed, resurrection body, and he's a little different looking.

Speaker 3 If he had a mole on his left cheek, would he still have a mole in resurrection?

Speaker 3 I don't know, but if it didn't, changes like that make you do a double take.

Speaker 1 When you are

Speaker 1 when you're looking at the way the apostles

Speaker 1 behaved and what happened,

Speaker 1 they also didn't really

Speaker 1 believe Jesus or understand Jesus with the resurrection, right?

Speaker 1 They were defeated at the cross because that doesn't happen to the Messiah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're exactly right. The view at that time was that, and it's part of the Christian view, but it's only part.

Speaker 3 The view at that time was that the Messiah in the Old Testament, they emphasized the verses that said he was going to be a ruler.

Speaker 3 He was going to wipe out God's enemies and the Jews and then later Christians, who also, the first few thousand were Jews,

Speaker 3 they were going to live scot-free and no more problems.

Speaker 3 So when Jesus didn't wipe out the Romans, when he, now he was a great debater, and these people went away defeated in debates, Pharisees and others, but he didn't wipe anybody out.

Speaker 3 And I think they're wondering,

Speaker 3 remember James and John? Hey, when you come into your kingdom, can we sit on their right hand and your left hand? You know, in the throne room. They thought he was going to be a major ruler.

Speaker 3 And when he wasn't, that's some disappointment. And then when he was crucified, Friday night and Saturday,

Speaker 3 we celebrate tomorrow,

Speaker 3 was a dark day for them. Remember when the women went to the tomb, it said the men did not go for

Speaker 3 for fear of the Jews for fear of the Romans

Speaker 1 you know they let the women they're going because they're they're part of they're they're now perceived as part of a revolutionary group and the leader is dead so right we have no leader anymore let's get I don't want to be seen at the at the tomb right right right now I mentioned that just a second ago the hiding for fear of the Jews remember it was the Romans who killed them the Jews had no authority to do that.

Speaker 3 So they turned them over to Pilate. Romans did the dirty work, and that's scarier because the guys know how to kill people.
They know how to kill people.

Speaker 3 So they let the women go alone to the tomb where the guys are hiding.

Speaker 1 I'm thinking, wow.

Speaker 3 Come on, guys. That's a bad Saturday and a bad Sunday morning.
And then, of course, if Saturday was the worst day in their life, Sunday was the best day in their whole life.

Speaker 1 Gary, you're fascinating.

Speaker 1 I'm going to be buying your three-volume set on the resurrection and the crucifixion of Christ. When does that come out?

Speaker 1 The first volume had just came out in January 15th.

Speaker 3 If you send me an email address off the air,

Speaker 3 I can definitely have a volume sent to you.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 3 it was selling for $80.

Speaker 3 And they had thousands of copies, first press run. It sold out in a week and a half when the book was selling for $80.

Speaker 3 So I'm not saying the book is great or anything. I'm just saying there's a lot of scholarly interest in this.
And you can't listen to the folks who speak the loudest. The ones that really get me.

Speaker 3 You know, the first response to that WAPO article, Washington Post, that you're the first couple responses were like this.

Speaker 3 They said,

Speaker 3 I'll tell you what's wrong with your argument. You took it from the New Testament's a prejudice book.

Speaker 3 Okay, you're the guy that sits in this house and doesn't read and hates the message, so you're going to pontificate. Okay, read the scholars.
My shelves are full of

Speaker 3 atheist and agnostic New Testament scholars who grant all the material I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much, Gary. God bless you.

Speaker 1 Have a blessed weekend. Thank you.
Yes, yes, yes. Glad to be back.

Speaker 3 Thank you so much. It was a great interview.
Thank you for the good questions. Thank you.

Speaker 1 You bet. Bye-bye, Gary.
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Speaker 1 This is the Glenn Beck Program.

Speaker 1 Program. We're glad you're here.

Speaker 1 Hello, Stu. Hey, Glenn, how are you doing?

Speaker 1 Good, good, good. We're kind of in that Easter mode, you know, before a holiday, where we checked out a long time ago, like maybe on Monday of this week.

Speaker 1 And so we're just kind of coasting, and all the wheels have come off, and we're just kind of right, just sitting there right at the finish line line in our little soapbox derby car that we made.

Speaker 1 And we've directed it right at a bridge abutment. And there's going to be some

Speaker 1 collision at some point. Thankfully, the show's almost over because the off-air conversation today would not lend itself well to us having a show on Monday.
Right. So,

Speaker 1 let me just talk to you. One last message here.
Obviously, if you've been listening this week, we've done a lot about Jesus and Christianity and faith and redemption, and I've done it for a reason.

Speaker 1 He's the only reason I'm alive today.

Speaker 1 Forgiveness is real. Redemption is real.

Speaker 1 And the redemption that we need for our country begins with you and me.

Speaker 1 We need to humble ourselves.

Speaker 1 We need to begin to see that what he did, you know, there's a, I want you to direct you to Glennbeck.com.

Speaker 1 There is an article,

Speaker 1 one that was written by me and one from Katerina, who works at Glenbeck.com, explaining

Speaker 1 some of the art, because

Speaker 1 I have painted three, four different, very different images of Christ.

Speaker 1 And it bothers me trying to paint the face of Christ, but I did it for a reason. One is the Shroud of Turin.

Speaker 1 One is the moment that he he wakes up and you see just the beginning of the flash that would imprint on the

Speaker 1 Shroud of Turin.

Speaker 1 But then there is the Jesus in Auschwitz and the Jesus that is being told to deny

Speaker 1 his

Speaker 1 parentage

Speaker 1 on trial in Mao's communist

Speaker 1 revolution.

Speaker 1 I don't know if they're controversial,

Speaker 1 but read about them because there's a reason I painted Christ in these ways

Speaker 1 because he is always where

Speaker 1 trouble is. He is always the one standing quietly trying to help.
And we need to be those people.

Speaker 1 And Easter weekend is a great time to make that commitment to yourself, to your family, to your country. But it all begins with today,

Speaker 1 why he died, and why he rose again.

Speaker 1 We'll see you Monday. The Glenn Beck Program.