Ep 180 | Is Another ‘Jesus Revolution’ Upon Us? | Greg Laurie | The Glenn Beck Podcast

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In Matthew 16, 3, Christ tells the Pharisees, Today it's going to be stormy and the sky is red and overcast.

You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you can't interpret the signs of the times.

Today's guest knows how to read the signs of the times.

These days, he serves as a senior pastor at Harvest Christian Fellowship.

But before that, he played a crucial role in the biggest Christian revolution in American history, at least modern-day history.

A weird moment in the 1960s when the hippies gave up their LSD and joined hands with Jesus people, and they all became Jesus people.

It's about the people within the hippie generation who truly did want peace and love, and the old guard willing to be Christ-like.

His story is at the heart of the Jesus Revolution.

It is his story.

Great new movie.

Kelsey Grammer is in it.

Jonathan Rooney, the actor who plays Jesus and the Chosen, is unbelievable.

The Jesus Revolution, that's the movie.

It captures one of the most misunderstood realities of Christianity.

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Today, I think you're really going to enjoy Greg Laurie.

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Hi, Greg.

Glenn, good to be with you.

Good to be with you.

I wanted to do this podcast We're Easter week,

Good Friday.

I've asked my audience to join me on a fast in prayer for the nation because we are just, we're,

we are the tale of two cities.

It is the best of times and the worst of times.

The blessings that we have

just over the horizon,

game-changing for all of humanity.

And at the same time, we're just destroying ourselves.

And I was talking to Jonathan Kahn

today

about the ancient gods that we are worshiping.

So we have that going on, and that beats people down.

But we also have,

I think, I hope, the beginning of what some people would call the third great awakening in America.

And you've been through the last Jesus Revolution.

So I want to talk to you about that.

Your movie is fantastic.

The Irwin brothers did a great job with your story.

So

let's go through it.

First, just for anybody who hasn't seen the movie or haven't heard your story, because the movie is your story,

tell the story.

Well, it's the story of the last great spiritual awakening in America.

And it's interesting because the title of the film is Jesus Revolution.

In the day, we didn't call it that.

We called it the Jesus movement and we called ourselves Jesus people, which I kind of like, you know, because you hear the word Christian, people load a lot of meaning to that, depending on your view of Christians.

But Jesus people,

that's what it was about.

We were people that met Jesus, quite literally.

I think those are different than some Christians.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

And

sometimes,

I mean, I've thought about, you know, people say, what are you?

I'm a follower of Jesus Christ.

I'm a student of Jesus Christ.

There's too many people, just Christians, it means dirty things.

Even if it's 400 years ago, it means dirty things.

Yeah.

Well, the Christians never called themselves Christians.

They called themselves followers of Jesus, followers of the way, disciples.

Someone else called them Christians, and it happened in a city called Antioch.

And it wasn't necessarily meant as a compliment, but it was meant as a description.

Because a best definition of it is little Christ.

It's like these people are like little Christs walking around.

And so, of course, we have adapted it and we believe it.

And it's a biblical thing to call yourself a Christian.

But there's other ways you can define yourself.

But for us, You know, we were people who came into a relationship with Jesus.

I myself, you you know, my mother was married and divorced seven times.

She was a raging alcoholic.

I had to grow up fast because I had to literally take care of her even as a little boy.

And she would pass out almost every night from drinking.

She'd drive drunk.

I'd be in the car with her, you know, and I thought I was going to die.

And it was a really, really hard upbringing.

And she was a violent drunk.

She would get into fights with her husbands, and one of them knocked her unconscious one night with a wooden statue.

And she was laying on the floor in a pool of blood.

And I climbed out the window and went to a neighbor's house and she left that guy.

But so this was my upbringing.

And so I knew as a kid, I thought, what is the meaning of life?

Because I looked at this adult world I was exposed to and I didn't know a single adult that I was impressed by or admire.

So the 60s thing is happening.

It's mid-60s now and we're hearing messages like, you know, turn on, tune in, drop out, right?

And I was believing that.

It made sense to me.

They said, don't trust anyone over 30.

That resonated with me because everyone I knew over 30, I didn't trust.

So I started using drugs and for a couple of years.

And I realized this is a dead end street.

Even before I was a Christian, I knew this is not the answer to life.

How did you know that?

Because I saw what it did to me.

And we tried to show this in the film.

We tried to show that when I start, when my character played by Joe Courtney, goes down this road and meets Kathy, my girlfriend at the time, played by Anna Grace Barlow, we're trying to show it looking exciting in a whole new world.

And at first it was, but that's what sin is like.

You know, it's exciting at first.

It's sort of like, it seems like a great idea to have six Krispy Kreme donuts until about 20 minutes later and you go into a food coma, right?

So, but it's far worse than that.

I like Krispy Kreme donuts, fine.

But I'm just going to- No, I'm an alcoholic, and I was just talking to somebody, and we were talking about enabling people, and I said, you know, there would be days where the best thing you could do for me to help me through just that moment would be to hand me a drink.

Yeah.

But that would be the worst thing for me because it's a destroyer for people like me.

Right.

So.

So I came to Christ on my high school campus.

So what happened?

I'm walking across my high school campus.

I'm empty.

I'm disillusioned.

I'm searching.

And I came across a group of these these Christians.

We called them Jesus freaks.

And we thought they're nuts.

I want nothing to do with these people.

They carry Bibles to school.

They talk about God.

They're all crazy.

But I sat down one day out of curiosity because I thought, why would anyone believe this?

And I was very cynical at 17 because of all that I've been exposed to.

And I was looking at them.

And the problem was I knew a couple of them personally.

And I used to party with them.

And I knew they weren't crazy.

So I had to rethink it.

And as I watched them singing songs about God, I thought, you know, they look pretty happy.

And then I just tried this thought on first eyes.

What if they're right and it's all true?

That's ridiculous.

There's no way.

Then I thought came back to me.

What if it's true?

It can't be true.

I thought.

There's nothing like this that could be true.

You can't have this relationship with God.

Then a guy stands up and speaks.

Now, he's called, his name is Lonnie Frisbee in real life.

He's played by Jonathan Roomy.

Who plays Jesus in The Chosen?

Yeah.

And he.

the guy exudes Jesus.

He does.

Yeah.

So well.

And now this is a whole nother character, but he does so well in this character as well.

And he speaks, the real Lonnie speaks.

And I don't remember most of what he said, but one statement that resonated with me was, Jesus said, you're for me or against me.

I looked around at the Christians.

I thought, okay, they're definitely for him.

I'm not one of them.

Does that mean I'm against God?

And I thought, I've always believed God was there.

I always believed believed Jesus was out there somewhere.

I'd seen all of his movies, right?

That was the extent of my theological training.

I'd never been to church ever.

I went a few couple times with my grandparents as a very small boy.

So I'm like, this is all new to me.

And then he said, and if you want to accept Jesus Christ into your life right now, walk forward.

I'm thinking, it's a high school campus at lunchtime.

I can't do this.

And a couple of kids walked forward and I just hung my head and I thought, there's no way I could ever do that.

And Glenn, next thing I knew, I was up there praying this prayer.

And as soon as I was I was at a Billy Graham revival when I was 15, you did the same thing.

Wow, that's great.

I got to know Billy Graham quite well.

Me too.

He's sort of like my role model for evangelism.

He is my role model in just about everything.

Yeah.

I was saying to someone the other day who said they admired Billy, I said, I can tell you privately, he was more impressive than he was publicly.

You know, he was humble.

He was very down to earth.

And when you would sit at a table with Billy, the first thing he'd say is tell me about yourself yeah and he'd mean it and he'd listen because he really liked he loved people he loved the lord and he was the most humble man i've ever met and the most godly man i've ever met and a very famous man yeah but it did not go to his head

but anyway remarkable anyway so well i pray this prayer and i asked christ to come into my life and and so a couple days pass and some guy comes to me and says you need to come to church with me and i said oh i i don't really know that i want to go to church no you need to come.

I'm going to take you to this church called Calvary Chapel.

I said, no, that's okay.

And this guy was persistent.

He goes, you're coming.

Where do you live?

And he was persistent in the best way.

His name was Mark.

So he picks me up at my house.

And I go to this church called Calvary Chapel.

And I walk right into the middle.

of a spiritual awakening and I didn't know it.

A lot of times we don't know what something is until some time passes.

And now we look back in retrospect and we say that was a revival.

So it was Time magazine that dubbed it the Jesus Revolution.

And I think that was very insightful of them because we didn't think of it as a revolution, but in many ways it was.

Because, you know, we're talking about sexual revolution back in those days, political revolution, overthrow the government, and we had a revolution.

But a lot of people don't even know about it.

What year was this?

It would be approximately 1969 to around 1972 or so.

So, what's interesting is the Jesus Revolution

comes at the end of

this movement for a revolution.

You know,

why do you think that is?

What happened?

What made that go from drug sex and rock and roll to connecting to Jesus?

I think it was almost like a whole generation was experiencing what I was experiencing personally.

They saw the emptiness of it.

You know, our leaders were cut down before our eyes.

Earlier in the 60s, President Kennedy, of course.

But then later, you know, Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy.

And then the Watergate scandal, of course, you know, happening.

And

then all of our rock icons dying in short order, ironically, all at the age of 27.

Jim Morrison, lead singer of the doors, Janice Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Brian Jones of the Rolling Stones.

So all these people are dying.

And we're seeing how empty it is.

It's like we went to

psychedelic day glow colors to black and white.

And

it was

really a drug.

Here's another way to look at it.

From Woodstock to a concert called Altamont.

That was, you know, the security was done by Hell's Angels.

And the stones are playing there.

So it was like everyone was seeing the hippie dream was dead because the hippie dream was not a dream.

It was an illusion.

It was never real.

But it was pointing to something that was real.

There were some good things, love, brotherhood, acceptance, but it was not realized.

But in faith in Christ, it can be realized.

And so you go to church, and the way it's depicted, Kelsey Grammar is the pastor.

He does a great job.

He does.

It's a lot like I remember going to church with my grandparents.

Oh, nice.

Before it gets good.

With the people who are just

sodgy.

and

um and i remember those days as a kid because i'm i'm younger a bit younger than you and i remember those days and

my grandmother and grandfather looking at hippies yeah because they associated them not with jesus but with the drug sex and rock and roll and so that acceptance was hard right for you i would imagine yeah right well for me i was looking at

yeah 100%.

And I think to Chuck's credit is he left his comfort zone and was willing to open the doors to something that no one knew anything about.

We were experiencing this in real time.

Today, you go to a church, you see a worship band doing rock and roll.

Big deal.

It's everywhere.

Back in those days, there were no electric guitars.

There were no drum kits.

It wasn't lighting in churches.

You were lucky you had a Hammond B3.

Yeah, and there might be that trip, which is still a great instrument.

And the occasional acoustic guitar might show up for a little folk version of something, right?

Right.

Remember the singing nun?

Yeah.

But that's probably too old of a record.

No, I remember.

I also remember the flying nun.

Go ahead.

Sally Fields, yes.

But so this was a revolution.

A music, a music form was developed.

Originally it was called Jesus.

music.

Now it's an industry called contemporary Christian music.

Then it was an expression of faith that that was happening.

And so he was willing to open the doors and let it happen.

Chuck was like a really practical kind of a guy.

He was not what we would call a hipster.

He wasn't trying to be cool, but he was like a father figure that was welcoming.

And you know what we needed?

We needed a stable father figure, not some adult trying to, you know, relate to the kids.

We were looking for authenticity and he was that.

And then Lonnie was, Lonnie and Chuck were sort of like nitro meeting glycerin, peanut butter meeting jelly, Lennon meeting McCartney, you know, just sort of the power of the right two people coming together.

And Chuck restrained Lonnie in the best way from his impulses to go too far.

But Lonnie had that electricity that helped to bring kids in.

So it was like we came for Lonnie and we stayed for Chuck.

And so that was a spiritual awakening.

And it wasn't until later that I realized that.

So John Irwin, the director of the Jesus Revolution film, came to me with a copy of that Time magazine with that psychedelic image of Jesus on the cover.

And he said, someone told me you were around at this time, made me feel very old.

Yes, I remember that, the old West.

So he throws it in front of me and says, tell me about it.

So as we began to talk, John has been wanting to make this film forever.

He'd sort of build it around the storyline of my life.

Me as a young boy with my mother searching.

Then Chuck Smith is a pastor who, you know, his church isn't doing that well.

And he wants to reach younger people.

Delonnie Frisbee, this hippie evangelist.

And there's other storylines woven in as well.

And I think it connects to a lot of people on a bunch of different levels because I've had different people say, oh, I love the story of you and your mother.

I connected to that.

Someone else will say, well, I love the story of Kathy.

That's my wife and her father and how he felt about all of this.

And someone else will connect to a a different part of it.

But it's a human story and it shows us all as having flaws.

You know, we're all flawed people who met God and he changed our lives.

And that's what the movie is about.

And I believe, Glenn, we might be poised to see another spiritual awakening because I do think there's real parallels between the late 60s, early 70s, and the moment we're in in American history.

I just, I wrote down, as you're telling the story, I just wrote down a couple of things.

Drugs, dead end, people are dying.

That's happening like crazy right now.

People are committing suicide because there's nothing out there.

You said we were looking for a father figure.

We didn't want somebody who was trying to be cool and relate to us.

We looked for authenticity.

These are the same things that are going on right now.

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It's interesting to me because

the answer then was not found in the church.

Right.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And I feel like the answer is not going to be found again in the church.

Whenever we have these awakenings, the church is usually, I mean, besides the government, the last to get it.

You know what I mean?

It always comes from the outside.

And at least it seems that way.

I would say of all the awakenings we've had in America and historically, that's pretty much true.

Right.

I mean, there's still pastors and things like that, but they're not the popular ones.

They're not, they're what, they're usually on the outside fringes.

And

they're the ones that don't have a lot to lose.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

That's good insight.

So, you know,

there was this prayer meeting that went on forever up in Asbury, you know, that we've talked a lot about.

And then it spread.

And

you wonder, is this the beginning of something new?

Because even in this movie, Glenn, I've heard crazy stories, crazy in the best way, of people coming to faith watching this movie.

I heard one story of in the middle of the movie,

Just as my character is about to get baptized in the movie, the projector, whatever, it broke, the film stopped, and some young lady got up and said in the theater full of people, does anybody need prayer for anything?

And someone says, yes, I can use prayer for this.

I could use prayer for that.

Then she says, does everybody here know Jesus?

And she starts to share her faith.

And some people prayed and accepted Christ in a movie theater.

I thought, wait, this doesn't happen in movie theaters.

I heard another story of people that were so excited after they saw the film that they wanted to be baptized and they baptized them in the fountain in front of the theater.

And then Jack Graham, who's a pastor here in town, a good friend of mine, told me that some folks from his church were at a theater here in Texas.

And after the movie was over, they saw some young men like visibly moved with tears in their eyes.

So these Christians approached them and said, Are you guys okay?

And they said, We just want to know how we can have what's in this movie.

And so they prayed with them.

So I see this as these are really promising signs to me of something maybe maybe coming.

My family and I went to see it.

Yeah.

And after it was over, these two teenage girls stand up.

We just want to pray with anybody who wants to pray.

We'll be right outside.

Wow.

And so we walked out.

They were ahead of us.

We walked out.

And then I said to my wife, hang on for a second.

And I wanted to watch what happened.

And people were sheepishly kind of.

We walked over to them, these two teenage girls.

wow and we all just hugged each other and just prayed we stood there for maybe 10 minutes and my wife said as we were walking out

no movie i've been to results in that that's right so that says to me it's not about a movie now no it's about is god at work again yes and i love hearing young people this is exciting because the jesus movement was a movement of young people and the bible says simon peter said on the day of pentecost in the last days, I'll pour my spirit out on all flesh.

Your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your old men will dream dreams and your young men will see visions.

So when I first heard that verse, I was the young man seeing visions.

Now I guess I'm the old man dreaming dreams.

But my dream is I want to see this again in my lifetime.

And so it's sort of like when I go out walking with my wife, my wife has really thick, beautiful hair, and I'll say, it's raining.

She'll say, it's not raining.

She would know it's raining for maybe an hour.

I said, it's raining.

She says, it is.

And I said, Kathy, Baldman always know when it's raining first, right?

Because that's right.

So I see a drop of rain.

Oh, look at this thing that happened in Asbury that went up for weeks of young people praying.

Oh, look at these people coming to faith in movie theaters.

And look at this other thing that's happening over here.

So this to me,

we need a spiritual awakening in America so badly.

Things are so dark right now.

And it is a spiritual battle that we're engaged in.

And the most powerful weapon we have in our arsenal as Christians is the proclamation of the gospel and prayer.

And so there is a place, obviously, for registering, voting, making our voice heard, doing everything we can in that arena.

But having said that, the things that really are powerful that we often leave unused are: let's pray about this.

Like you're asking for people to pray tomorrow.

That's a great thing.

And there's power in prayer.

In Acts chapter 12, Simon Peter was in prison and they had already killed James.

And there's a great little verse that says, constant prayer was offered to God for him by the church.

So that, and the end of that story is Peter was sprung from prison and everything changed through prayer.

But I love it.

Constant prayer was offered to God by the church.

There's power when we pray together.

And then secondly, to just tell people how they can come to Jesus.

Look, when I was 17, I was a completely liberal person.

I would parrot all of the popular statements of kids that day.

I was against everything and I didn't even know why, but I just was because that's what I did.

That's what you do.

When I came to Christ, everything changed.

My worldview changed.

The way I think changed.

Everything changes.

So I think the best thing I can do is reach out and say, there's a God in heaven who loves you and has a plan for your life, and you can be forgiven of your sin, and you don't have to use drugs, and you don't have to think your life doesn't matter, and even contemplate taking your life.

God has a purpose and plan for you, and I want to tell you how to come into this relationship with the Lord.

So,

let me take you back to Lonnie.

Yeah.

Because in the movie, I mean, again, he's played by the guy who plays Jesus.

And so

you have this expectation because he's amazing.

And you have this

expectation, oh, things are going to end well.

And in the movie, it doesn't end great for him.

But in real life,

it was really tragic what happened to him.

Will you tell us about the real Lonnie?

Yes.

Yeah.

So

Lonnie

had a very troubled childhood.

His mother divorced and his stepfather was very harsh with him.

He was molested as a young boy.

And by his own admission, before he became a Christian, he was in San Francisco experimenting sexually in every way,

as well as with drugs.

And he came to faith and he married a woman named Connie.

And so this is around the time that he came to Calvary Chapel and he met Chuck.

So during this time that the movie covers, which is about a two-year period, Lonnie was walking with the Lord.

He is being used by God powerfully, but him and Chuck had disagreements into the direction that Lonnie wanted to go.

Chuck didn't throw Lonnie out.

Lonnie left of his own volition to go to Florida.

And so now fast forward a number of years,

Lonnie, by his own admission, wrote about it in his autobiography.

He fell away from the Lord.

He went back into drugs.

He went back into sexual promiscuity and he got the AIDS virus.

And actually, I went and saw him when he was in hospice care.

What year was this?

This would have been early 90s, like 91 or two.

Because I remember we were just starting our crusades and stadiums, and he was aware of that.

And I told him, you know, you played a role.

You led me to Christ.

And so now, you know, what I'm doing is connected to what you did.

And so Lonnie said, you know, wrote in his book, I've never identified as a gay man.

I believe homosexuality is a sin, as a matter of fact.

But he fell and he was sorry, and he knew he paid pretty much the ultimate price for that, getting AIDS, but was sorry for what he had done.

He was repentant.

And I remember we're sitting in a room that he was in.

It was all the lights were out.

There was a big fire in the fireplace and lighting his face up.

It was like a scene from a film.

And this emaciated Lonnie Frisbee, this tragic figure says, God's going to use me to preach to thousands of people in the future.

And my friend and I, who were sitting there, are both thinking, that's not going to happen.

And he died shortly after that.

But then someone brought to my attention the other day, did you ever stop and consider the fact that in this movie he's preaching to thousands of people?

You think God gave him a glimpse into his future?

I said, who knows?

So here's his story.

He was a flawed man.

who was used by God.

We could have made the movie without him.

We didn't have to put him in the movie.

But the reality is important.

Yeah, but the reality is he was a part of this spark between him and Chuck.

So we're not trying to hide anything.

We're saying in this time there was none of that going on later.

Yeah, it's a tragic end, but hey, man, read the Bible.

God's servants mess up.

I mean, Abraham lied and David committed adultery and then tried to cover it up, ultimately committing murder.

And Noah got drunk after the ark landed safely on the land.

Paul held the coats while people stoned

Stephen to death.

That's one of the most shocking.

Paul was not a good.

but that standing there.

Here, hold your coat.

Yeah.

Go ahead and stone him.

That's a bad guy.

He is a bad guy.

Bad guy.

But you know, God can draw a straight line with a crooked stick.

And if you look at the Bible, it seems like God goes out of his way to choose ordinary people to do extraordinary things.

That's the story of this.

Stop there.

Why?

Is it,

you know, I'm sure you know this.

Martin Luther King was chosen by men.

Yeah.

I can tell you, I would bet my life many were chosen by God who failed to stand.

He was just the, I think he was the eighth choice.

He just finally stood up and said, yeah, okay, I'll do it.

So

why does he use flawed people?

Is it because all of the really good people?

have too much to lose.

What do you suppose?

I think you actually touched on it earlier.

You were saying that when somebody doesn't have anything to lose, maybe they're more willing to take a risk.

But actually, the Bible addresses this topic.

And it says, God chooses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise.

So I think when you have a person who's obviously very talented, very educated, very, and God can use those people, and he does.

But sometimes the Lord will pick that unexpected person to do an unexpected work.

So when it's it's all said and done, we'll look and say, hmm, I don't think that person could have ever done that.

That must have been God.

So I think it gives hope for all of us because I'm about as ordinary as they come.

I can tell you that.

You just made me think of something.

You remember the movie Willy Wonka in the Chocolate Factory?

Yes.

So, you know.

Which version?

The real one.

Yeah, which Gene Wilde Wilder.

Jesus tells us, come to me as a child.

Yeah.

Willie Wonka is sitting in the

Wonka Vader or whatever it's called, and they're flying through the sky.

And he looks at Charlie and he says,

I knew if I picked an adult, they would want to do it their way.

Only a child would do it my way.

Wow.

And

I've never pieced those two together.

That's a great answer.

That's probably.

I might use that in those sermons then.

But

it's true.

And only the broken,

again, alcoholic.

My mom committed suicide when I was young.

She was addicted to drugs.

And once you're absolutely broken, then you'll do it his way.

Yeah, because you're like, I don't want to do it my way anymore.

My way doesn't work.

You know, God can take the mess of our life and turn it into a message the bible says he can bring beauty out of ashes and you know it's quite amazing when it happens to you yeah and it doesn't always happen because you can also become a bitter angry person no yeah but i mean if you allow if you accept the atonement yeah all of a sudden you're seeing all the things that you were afraid would destroy you the all the things you did wrong all the things that you hid right all of a sudden they're being used in ways that you could not have imagined.

That's right.

Yeah.

Like Joseph said, his brothers, he was, you know, sold by his brothers into slavery, and then he ascended to become the most powerful man in all of Egypt, next only to the Pharaoh.

He could have had his brothers all executed.

He said, you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good to save many people alive.

So I think, you know, as you look back in your life, Glenn, and I look back on mine,

you know, God has used these things.

Like 14 years ago, our oldest son, Christopher, died in an automobile accident.

And it was, you know, I looked at all of the pain of my childhood.

It was nothing compared to this.

And it's not something I would wish on anyone.

It's, it's a horrible tragedy.

It will always be a tragedy.

However, I can see that good has come despite this tragedy.

I don't feel like I need to say, oh, this happened, so that will happen.

I'll just say this happened.

It was a horrible event.

I wish it never happened, but it changed me and and i believe the events of life can make us better or better yep so we choose yeah you know and so i've chosen you know it broke me and and it you know and i feel like a part of me is in heaven right now so it gives me a different view of things it gives you sometimes a greater compassion for a person because you think i used to be that person so you're not so you know

above them all and you know oh you know what's wrong with you you go no i understand these struggles that people face and I care about them and and try to reach out to them and just have a heart for people because people are hurting they're searching they're lonely and I think we need to just tell them that there's hope in this crazy world we're living in.

And so God uses these events in our life and it's clear because God's made you the man you are and to do what you uniquely do.

That's different than anybody else out there.

And you have a certain way about what you do that really connects to people.

I think you put a lot of heart in what you do, as well as bringing great information.

And so God's in control of these things.

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So I want to talk to you a little bit about

the meaning of

life

because

there's not a lot of meaning in the world right now.

We have rejected,

we've put

so many idols in front of us that we're worshiping, you know, our handheld devices or whatever it is.

We spend so much time gazing onto those things that we are becoming.

And

it's leading to suicide.

And

I want you just to talk about that for a second.

I think there's people that either completely

lose hope because nothing they sing has meaning, just like you didn't believe in anybody over 30,

or they are trapped in

this world of,

no, you don't know what I did.

And they just think they can never be used.

They can never be forgiven.

Well, it's such a unique time in human history.

I mean, I said there's parallels between

early 70s, late 60s, and today, but then there's unique features of the time we're living in.

I mean, and social media has just created, it's almost this crazy Pandora's box.

It can be used for such good and such evil.

Like you said earlier, the best of times, the worst of times.

It's like so good and so bad simultaneously, depending on what you make it.

But all of us would probably admit to, you know, spending too much time looking at our phones.

I'll sometimes just scroll through the

Instagram feed.

They have these little videos, and

it's almost like a drug or something.

Oh, yeah, I know.

Because I'll go, wait, an hour just passed?

And, you know, and so

I think that

with all of this technology and now with the explosion of artificial intelligence, you know, and then all that's going on in the world, it reminds me so much of when I was a young man with the bomb drills.

It's like we see a bolder, more powerful China, you know, that's been emerging for a long time, but now militarily, economically, and,

you know, and all the other things happening in the world today, it's very frightening time.

And drugs today, like fentanyl, with I think 300 fentanyl deaths a day, and suicide up.

There was a report that was just done recently by the CDC talking about how young girls are so sad and lonely.

And I just read an article today about young boys taking taking their lives at an unprecedented rate.

And, you know, we've done all of this, all these social experiments, changing everything, and we're sowing the wind, and now we're reaping the whirlwind.

And so the solution is, it's very simple in a way.

And it's really something we have to do individually.

You have to go to God.

It's a relationship with God.

This is where everything starts.

Wall Street Journal had an article recently about how patriotism is down and church attendance is down.

Love of money is up.

Or

people think that that is a

what was it, a virtue or a pillar of to be an American.

Yeah.

Money.

Yeah.

When?

Yeah.

So all these things I think are interconnected.

And I think, I don't know, it was 1962 or three when it was illegal to read scripture or pray the Lord's Prayer out loud.

And then you fast forward to a 66 Time magazine cover, black with reversed out red letters, is God dead?

And then 1972 or so, the psychedelic image of Jesus, Jesus Revolution.

Is there cause and effect to these things?

And I believe there is.

So I believe that it's a relationship with God.

You know, Cultural Christianity is dead, and I'm not sorry about that.

And there was a cultural Christianity that did have some positive virtues when I was a child.

Even the shows we would watch on TV, Father Knows Best, Leave It to Beaver,

you know, the Donna Reed Show.

And in my day,

Little House on the Prairie.

Yeah, yeah.

So those are.

The Cosby show in the 90s.

Before he went back.

The Cosby show.

It was bad at the time, but before the show.

Yeah.

Before we knew it.

But it was a positive role model of a father.

Instead of making the father the buffoon and the brunt of jokes, father did have wisdom and it was father and mother were together and family matter.

But there was a sort of a cultural Christianity earlier in America and the 50s and the early 60s.

And I don't think we need cultural Christianity.

This is about a relationship with God.

We need to turn to God individually.

And I believe I see young people changing.

You just told a story of a young person in a theater.

See, God can change the course of that single young person.

And they're they're really searching this is what this is all about even the gender identity issues

they're they're they're not comfortable in their own body they think it's something else the something else is a someone else what they're really looking for and they just don't know it yet is they're looking for God because God-shaped hole it is and the Bible says he has placed eternity in our hearts this is unique of people God has made us in our image and there's something in us that's looking for this through our life.

I was as a young man.

People are still looking for him today, and the answer has not changed.

And God says, I'm here.

I'm ready to forgive you of your sin.

I'm ready to cleanse you and change you and give you a fresh start in life.

And that's kind of what I talk about.

Not kind of, that is what I talk about.

That's what I'll be talking about this Easter.

That's what I talk about pretty much every Sunday.

And even to people individually, I talk to them about their need for a relationship with the Lord through Christ.

Why?

You can probably tell by looking at me, I avoid exercise like the plague.

The Lord and I are,

I just have to understand why is it everything I like is bad for me and everything that is good for me, I really don't like.

I mean, getting me to do, you know, service

every time I'm driving, you know, to do something, I'm like, oh, yeah,

and then then afterwards, you're like, I should be doing this all the time.

That's right.

Why is it

that

that God-shaped hole

is

the last thing

that people will try?

You know what I mean?

Why is that, do you suppose?

That's a really good question.

I'm not sure if I know the answer to it.

It's kind of like, there it is right in front of you, but you feel like you want to try everything else.

And sometimes for some people, it has to be like a process of elimination.

Is it because it's

you think it's too hard?

Maybe you think it's too easy.

Maybe you think it can't be that.

It couldn't be that.

And, you know, and I think that that is maybe because you don't understand that.

You could say, oh, the religion, Jesus thing, that's what my parents or my grandparents did.

Well, maybe they did or maybe they didn't.

I don't know what their relationship with God was, but Jesus says, come unto me, all of you who are laboring and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

And so what I often say is, look, I'm sorry that there's hypocrites in the church, but Jesus didn't say, follow my people.

He said, follow me.

So this is it.

You need to come to God and say, I don't understand you.

I don't know that much about you.

But if you're real, make yourself real to me.

And God will hear and respond to a prayer like that.

And I think it really comes down to that encounter with God.

And we've seen a lot of bad examples and we've seen some good examples.

But ultimately, it's about you and God.

And one day we're all going to stand before God.

And it's going to be, the question is not going to be, did you live a good life?

Because some people think, a lot of people think, if I live a good life, God will let me into heaven.

There's no basis for that anywhere.

You know, we wouldn't even use the word heaven if we had not read it in the Bible.

So how can we take something that's clearly from the Bible and then redefine other things that the Bible clearly says about how we get to this place that it told us about in the first place?

It tells us there's a heaven, it tells us there's a God, it tells us there's a devil, it tells us we have a choice, it tells us how to come to him, it tells us what God did to make that possible through Jesus dying on the cross.

That's what we'll celebrate on Good Friday, and rising again from the dead, that's what we'll celebrate on Sunday.

It's all there.

And there's gates that you must pass.

He had to pass through them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He was in the Garden of Gethsemane sweating blood, basically.

And as he contemplated the horrors of what was ahead, bearing the sins of the world, you know, Jesus was God, which means he knew everything.

And it was bad enough to know that.

His beard would be ripped from his face and a crown of thorns would be pressed on his head and they'd strike him with their fists and pound spikes through his hands and his feet.

But the thing that that Jesus recoiled from, even more than that, was the horror of taking the sin of the world upon himself.

And that is why he said, Father, if it's possible, let this cup pass from me.

Nevertheless, not my will, but yours be done.

The cup was that, because Jesus, you know, he never even had a thought out of alignment with his father.

He never committed a single sin.

And now to take on all of your sin and my sin and all of our sin upon himself,

That's a beat worse than death.

But he did it, and that's

what Calvary is all about.

That's what the cross is all about, is Christ was absorbing the judgment of God that should have come upon me, upon himself, and he was dying, as you said, atoning for our sin.

You think that happened at Gethsemane, not on the cross?

What's that, atonement?

Yeah, his taking on that.

That's when he was sweating blood, because it was,

like you said,

it had to be uh it had to make the crucifix look almost like a picnic.

Well, and it he knew what that was.

I think it probably happened on the cross when he cried out.

There are seven statements Christ gave from the cross.

The first was, Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.

Imagine that.

And then he ultimately said, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

Eli, Eli, Lama, Sabachtoni.

It is believed by many scholars that that's the moment when the sin of the world was placed upon Christ, because after that, he says, it is finished.

One word, Tatalastai, it is completed.

It is done.

It is finished.

And then he says, into your hands, Father, I commit my spirit.

So he had done it.

This is what he came to do.

And then, of course, he rose again.

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You know, you talk about the

heaven, hell, devil.

we're seeing belief in God go down.

But it's shocking to me how many people

don't believe in evil when

it's hard to understand

the period in the 1930s and 40s in Germany

without an understanding of evil that just seemed to,

I don't know,

inhabit

the people.

And

you look at our society where we have gone from

safe, legal, and rare

to shout your abortion.

You should be proud of that

to

let's do these medical experiments on children.

And it's in our culture, Sweden, Finland, England, they're all turning away saying, no, no, no, no, no, no.

France.

It's us

when you're seeing the rise of

all in the name of compassion,

euthanasia of kids who are depressed in Canada.

Wow.

Can you talk a little bit about

evil as a force and the difference between fighting flesh and bone and

principalities?

Yeah, well, as surely as there is a God in heaven who loves us, there's a devil headed to hell who hates us.

He's a fallen angel known as Lucifer.

Now we call him Satan.

The Bible calls him the prince of the power of the air.

And so that speaks of a realm of demonic powers that are under him, which are fallen angels that do his bidding.

There's one devil.

He's not the equal of God.

God is all-knowing.

Satan is limited knowledge.

God is all-powerful.

Satan is limited power.

God is omnipresent, present everywhere.

Satan can only be in one place at one time.

But he has these demon forces.

And what's his agenda?

Jesus summed it up very clearly.

He says, a thief, speaking of Satan, comes only to steal, kill, and destroy.

But then he contrasted himself with that and said, But I have come, Jesus speaking, to give you life and that more abundantly.

So here's our choice, life or death.

God says in scripture, I set before you death and life, blessings and curses.

Choose life that you may live.

It's almost like a teacher in a classroom and they're giving the final exam and they're saying, you have to get this question right to pass the exam.

By the way, here's the answer to the question.

And God's saying, here's life.

It's before you.

Life, death, you choose.

By the way, I love how he puts in, choose life.

Like, I'm telling you, do this.

But it is our choice.

And so every day we have a choice to,

even as a Christian, to yield to Satan and his temptations and his enticements and our selfishness and our pride and all the things that we do, or to yield to God and to as a Christian, to open his word, to pray, to be humble before him.

You know, the funny thing you're talking about serving, the last thing you want to do is serve someone else, but the reality is the Bible teaches if you lose your life, you find your life.

That's what Jesus said.

And when you help others, they actually have a term for it.

It's called the helper's high.

It's a medical term that they use to describe the release of endorphins when you help somebody or do something for someone besides yourself.

So we think it's all about me.

Get everything I can and I'll be happy.

Bible teaches the opposite.

It's actually about others, giving out, but ultimately starting with receiving from God.

So there is a devil.

He's active.

And I believe it's Satan literally whispering in the ears of these young people today.

Take your life.

Nobody cares about you.

You don't matter.

I think it is the influence of Satan as well that is

the moving force behind so many things that are being said in

public, in compassion.

You know, the war in, we don't know anything about the war in heaven and the, you know, the fall of Satan, but we do know God chose

the plan of salvation with Jesus, Okay.

And not Satan's plan.

And Satan's plan was, I'll make all the decisions.

I'll make all the decisions.

I'll bring them all back.

Give me the glory.

That's right.

And I never understood how a third of the angels could be lost.

You're standing there.

You're looking at him.

You're looking at God.

You know.

Yeah.

The same arguments that we're having over and over again.

He wants you to be hurt.

He wants you to suffer.

I'll make sure no one suffers.

Yes.

And

we are,

everything starts to be cloaked in compassion.

And before you know it, you realize I'm in a cage.

Yeah.

Well, he's an angel of light.

If the devil were to appear, he wouldn't have red skin, horns, pointed ears, and the pitchfork.

He'd be an angel of light.

He would be very impressive.

And, you know, sin makes you stupid.

That's the bottom line.

And so why did the angels fall?

Explain that.

Sin makes you stupid.

Well, when you come under the power of sin, you don't think rationally.

And maybe it's the pleasure.

Even the Bible says there's pleasures in sin for a season, but afterwards comes death.

So the idea is there's a certain euphoria and excitement when you break the rules and cast off the restraints and run off and do what you want to do.

But then you face the repercussions of those bad decisions.

And so it's very appealing and enticing on the front end.

Go back to the Garden of Eden.

You know, Satan offers to Eve the forbidden fruit.

We always see an apple.

The Bible never says an apple.

I wouldn't have been tempted by an apple.

Apples are okay.

A nectarine, maybe.

I think it probably was a piece of fruit like we've never seen.

It probably pulsated with light, had its own theme song.

Who knows?

But whatever it was, it was like, wow.

And what was the appeal?

Go ahead and eat.

And in the day you eat thereof, you will be as a God, knowing good and evil.

Eve, you'll be a goddess.

Go for it.

And so that's still the enticement today that comes to us.

You know, you can be in control.

You can have everything.

And it's empty promises.

And they ate of the forbidden fruit and sin enters the human race.

But so we have to come to our senses.

There's a story that Jesus told.

And I love this story because Jesus shows us what God is like.

We wonder, what is God like?

Okay, here's what God is like, according to Jesus.

God is like a father who loves us.

And he tells the story of a father with two sons.

One of the sons goes astray, takes his portion of the inheritance, consorts with hookers,

drinking, ruins his life, finally comes to his senses and says, I will return home to my father and say, I don't even deserve to be a son.

Just make me, you know, hired hand.

But while, and this is Jesus speaking, while he was a great way off, the father saw him and ran to his son and threw his arms around him and kissed him and said, rejoice with me, this my son who is dead is alive again.

And he who was lost is found.

So what is God like?

God is like a father who misses his son, who misses his daughter, who longs for our return.

He allows us to make our own choices as the prodigal did.

But when we come to our senses and come back to him, he's not going to beat us.

He's going to forgive us of all of our sin and welcome us.

But then he changed the son.

So because sometimes people say, well, God loves me just the way that I am.

Yes, but he doesn't want to leave you that way.

So when you really come into a relationship with Jesus Christ, you need to, as the Bible says, repent of your sin.

You say, I'm not going to do that anymore.

The father said, put clean clothes on him and put a ring in his finger.

It's like, okay, son, you stink.

You've been hanging out with pigs.

Let's clean you up.

So you don't have to clean your life up and come to Christ.

But when you come to Christ, he'll clean your life up.

So you come with your addictions, you come with your problems, you come with your guilt.

You say, I'm sorry to God, and he can take everything and change it for you.

I've seen it happen in so many lives.

It is

remarkable.

But I think people

are convinced that that just

can't happen

for them.

You know, I said

went through a tough period here recently with my kids, and I had

a couple of them were suicidal, and another one had just gone off the beaten path.

And

I

was

just struggling one day, just trying to hold everything together.

And

I'm sitting at dinner with my family.

And I said,

you know what the problem is about

for parents, being a parent?

My kids went, no.

And I said,

you never stop loving your children.

Yeah.

And I think that's how God feels.

Like,

I just want my child to be happy.

I just want my child to be whole.

I just, I want them to know I love them and it doesn't have to be this way.

But

in the end, it's their choice.

And I will be there and I'm going to counsel them,

but I'm going to let them make their own choice.

And I have to stand there and just go, I'm anxious to see how that works out for you.

Yes.

And hopefully hopefully you'll come back, but

it's always

if

I wouldn't have a strong relationship with my kids,

they

would be afraid that I would judge them or I would look at them differently.

Yeah.

And

that's what that's that God's the perfect parent.

Yes.

My oldest son, Christopher, who I mentioned earlier, who died in an automobile accident 14 years ago, he went through a little, what I would call a prodigal phase.

And I always kept contact open with him.

And I would always reach out to him.

And he said to a friend of ours later, I found this out later.

He said, I always knew where I sort of stood with God by my relationship with my father.

When there wasn't really, you know, when I wasn't right with

God,

things were tense with my dad.

But he said, the thing that brought me back and Christopher returned to the Lord, he says, was I knew my father loved me unconditionally.

And I thought, okay, that's the greatest compliment that could be paid, that he knew I loved him unconditionally.

And then he returned to the Lord, and then he was called unexpectedly home to heaven.

I have another son named Jonathan, and he was struggling with drugs, Glenn.

So, and I wasn't even aware of his struggle at this time.

And he said to his older brother Christopher, who had made this recommitment to Christ, I'm struggling with this.

You've got to help me.

And Christopher turned to Jonathan and said, Jonathan, what's it going to take for you to get right with God?

And Jonathan determined the next day he wanted to talk to his brother more.

And that next day, July 24th is when Christopher went to be with the Lord.

This so

hit Jonathan that he threw all of his drugs out, made a commitment to follow Jesus, and now today is an associate pastor at our church.

And so, not only is he walking with the Lord, but he's actually teaching the Word of God and preaching the gospel.

And so, I say, you know, never give up on your kids.

Keep loving your kids.

We don't need to preach to them.

We need to be the sermon.

You don't want to give them the message, but then you live it.

And they see that and they know that.

And I think they need to always know that they can come home and we're there to love them.

And that's how God is toward us.

I think what you said is exactly right.

Let me ask you as a parent.

I see parents of families who they are exceptional families.

I mean, exceptional boys, you know, praying all the time, just so sweet and so kind.

And sometimes their family is perfect.

Other times, their family is a mess.

I've seen people

whose family is amazing and the parents are a mess.

I know as a parent, when something happens, your kids go awry,

it's just diabolical.

You think about, I should have done more of this.

I should have done this.

Speak to parents that

are...

struggling because I don't even know what to do as a parent.

It's so foreign to me and my childhood.

I don't even know.

Speak to parents who have really done their best, maybe not done everything right, but really did their best.

Yeah.

Well,

I think that

if you've made mistakes as a parent, it's okay to apologize to a child.

I think we feel, oh, I can't do that because...

That would somehow undermine my authority in their life.

No, they already know you screwed up.

Why don't you just admit it?

And they'll probably respect you more for it.

Say, you know what?

I haven't been the father I should have been.

And I want to apologize or the mother I should have been.

And I'm sorry for that.

And I want you to forgive me.

And I want to start over again and do the best that I can do.

That'll probably go a lot further than you think it would go.

But you need to show them.

You know, you can't take someone any further than you yourself have gone.

And I think the idea is you do need to model it.

for them.

I have a friend, Franklin Graham.

I know you know Franklin.

I mean, he was raised in the home of Billy and Ruth Graham, for pete's sake

and and i you know i i mentioned i got to know billy and ruth i spent time in their home they were the most wonderful couple they were down to earth they were fun they were godly they were what you would want a christian couple to be and yet franklin would crawl out on the roof in the middle of the night

and so you know he had this time of rebellion so you can be look if

If if a kid messing up meant that you had failed as a parent, then God is a bad parent, right?

Because how many of us mess up?

And we have a perfect heavenly father.

And God is not a bad parent.

The point is, we have a free will.

We have to sometimes learn things the hard way, unfortunately.

But as a parent, you want to model it for your kids.

You want to teach it to them.

And I've always found the best way to teach my children and now my grandchildren is I just weave it into everyday life.

You know, Moses said, teach these things to your children when you get up in the morning, when you walk in the way, when you go to sleep at night.

So it's just like, instead of saying, now I'm going to preach a sermon to you, or we're going to have a two-hour devotional time before you leave the house, you know, just weave it into life.

There's nothing wrong with setting time apart.

In fact, it's a good thing to open the Bible and pray with your children, but...

Look for those teaching moments with them and enter their lives and take an interest in what they're doing.

Listen to them.

Let them talk to you.

Ask them questions.

I think it's hard when you get older because you feel like you want to always be the one with the answers.

But you can learn a lot from younger people.

And because I like to find out what they're dealing with and thinking about so I can appropriately bring truth to them, but not beat them over the head with it, but try to explain, sometimes using my life as an illustration and mistakes I've made and things I've learned.

It's a hard job.

It's like

Mark Twain said,

loose paraphrase, you've probably heard this.

It's when your child reaches the age of like i think 14 he says put them in a barrel and put the lid down on tight and feed them through the open hole and then when they hit 16 plug up the hole right you know something to that effect and so juvenile delinquency and teenage rebellion is not unique to our time and i think we just do the best we can do pray for god's wisdom and his strength and his help and just keep loving our kids and and they see that and they know that And yeah, I think it will resonate.

And prayerfully and hopefully they'll come back.

Let me ask you one more question.

Yes.

Easter weekend.

Yes.

I go back and forth on Judas.

In the time

they were expecting a warrior.

Yeah.

Jesus was not the warrior that they were expecting.

Yes.

And it's kind of like Adam and Eve.

I mean, I could make a case that Eve was like,

we have to do this.

You know what I mean?

And Judas, he had to betray Christ.

What do you think

if he hadn't hung himself?

Yeah.

And he had a chance to talk to Christ, what do you think Christ would have said to him?

Well, I know what Christ said to him right before he hung himself when Jesus, he saw Judas in the Garden of Gethsemane, and Judas is not going to identify Jesus for the authorities.

He says, it's the one that I will kiss.

And

Jesus sees him and says, friend, what do you seek?

Jesus called him a friend.

I mean, a friend?

Don't forget when Jesus washed the disciples' feet in the upper room, that included Judas, and he knew he was washing the feet of the one who would shortly betray him.

I would have broken his feet, not washed them.

Friend, why have you come?

He asks.

So that was the last gesture of Christ toward Judas.

Like, I know what you're up to.

I've already called you out on it.

I know what's happening right now, but I'm saying, why have you come?

In other words, one last chance to repent.

Judas could have done it.

So, you know, you can contrast Simon Peter and Judas.

Both of them messed up.

Judas betrayed Christ.

Peter denied Christ.

And they both went and did their deed.

But Judas never repented of his, but Peter went out, the Bible says, and wept bitterly, and he was forgiven by God.

So, you know, Judas,

he came off as a super virtuous guy.

You know, it was Judas who said when a woman was pouring the expensive perfume on Christ, hey, this could have been sold and the money given to the poor.

And everyone's going, yeah, that's right, Judas.

But then John says, yeah, he said this because he was stealing money from the bag.

He was like the treasurer.

So he came off like like a guy who was virtuous, but in reality, he was evil.

Because it's interesting, there's a certain point where the Bible says Satan entered Judas' heart.

So it went beyond just a man, you know, making bad decisions.

The devil entered his heart, and now he was doing the work of Satan.

Now,

it was God's plan for Christ to be crucified.

It was God's plan for Jesus to bear the sins of the world.

And that's why it's so ridiculous for people to say, well, the Jewish people are responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus.

I'm responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus.

My sins put him on the cross.

And the Bible even says it pleased the Father to bruise him.

So God orchestrated it.

So it was a weird moment in history where the devil and the father were working toward the same goal, but with a different objective.

Jesus is going to die.

It is God making.

Unbelievable lemonade out of lemons.

Every time.

I mean, and I think Satan thinks thinks he's going to win.

It's like right now, I think he's like, oh, man, this is

my moment.

This time I win.

He is,

God just must shake his head like we shake our head.

Our children will go and you just don't get it with him after all these years.

You still don't get it.

Well, I read the last page of the Bible.

We win in the end, Glenn.

So we have to remember that there are setbacks, but ultimately the word of God is going to prevail.

And so we've got to just press on each and every day, put one foot in front of the other and do the best we can do.

But pray for our families, pray for our nation.

Give the good news of Jesus Christ out to people.

And let's see what God will do.

I think how you opened is just perfect.

It's the best of times and the worst of times.

Let's pray that we have a spiritual awakening and it changes the course of our country right now.

Amen.

Thank you.

Thank you.

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