Ep 72 | A Medal of Honor for a Grenade I Can’t Remember | Kyle Carpenter | The Glenn Beck Podcast

Speaker 1 I'm sitting here in the Mercury Studios, which were built as the Paramount lot here in Texas. And this stage has told many, many stories and many films.

Speaker 1 Now I've purchased the lot, and we tell stories in a different way. And the people that have sat on this stage to talk about what they have done are incredible.

Speaker 1 The podcasts really are a collection of people that are unique. And every day we're surrounded by great conversations, and I hear a ton of stories.

Speaker 1 Sad stories, stories that will leave you devastated, stories of hope, stories of tremendous humanity, hero stories, real-life heroes, people who accomplish the unthinkable.

Speaker 1 Today, I think the guest is all of those things. He is a walking lesson in empathy.
His story unbelievable. Without a doubt, a miracle that he's still alive.
I don't want to ruin the story for you.

Speaker 1 But when he was 21 years old, he went off to war, the most most dangerous war zone in the world. He endured the unimaginable, but did it in a heroic way.

Speaker 1 And people will say this one event changed his life, but I disagree with that. I don't think it had anything to do with that event.

Speaker 1 And that event, the excruciating consequences of that event impact him still today.

Speaker 1 This is one of those podcasts you're going to carry around with you for a while because my guest today has a ton to teach about just the simple art of being a good person.

Speaker 1 His story is of great empathy, motivate, and inspire you to, as his book says in the subtitle, build a life that's worth fighting for because you're worth it.

Speaker 1 His name is Kyle Carpenter, the youngest Medal of Honor recipient ever.

Speaker 1 So, I have a reason I want to start here.

Speaker 1 And you'll understand after you answer the first question. Just tell me about the minute

Speaker 1 that you jumped on the grenade.

Speaker 1 Let's start there.

Speaker 2 So, maybe

Speaker 2 one of the craziest parts of my journey is I do not remember that minute

Speaker 1 leading up to it?

Speaker 2 Leading up to it. I do not remember seeing the grenade, hearing it land, thinking about it.

Speaker 2 All I remember is physically

Speaker 2 how I felt after that grenade detonated and I was injured.

Speaker 1 So you remember laying on the ground after it detonated?

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 I was so disoriented.

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 2 felt like I was laying face down on the ground because the first thing that I tried to do was kind of push myself up and shake it off.

Speaker 2 But my first realization was I could not feel either one of my arms from the shoulders down.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 like I said,

Speaker 2 I was so disoriented

Speaker 2 that even though I didn't know what was going on,

Speaker 2 Not being able to feel my arms to trying to push myself up and shake it off

Speaker 2 planted

Speaker 2 first seed of initial panic.

Speaker 2 Following that,

Speaker 2 as I continued searching through the disoriented pieces to try to put some type of what happened together,

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 thought,

Speaker 2 Okay,

Speaker 2 the last thing I remember, I'm pretty sure I was in Afghanistan.

Speaker 2 I was on a roof.

Speaker 2 Maybe, and now that I'm talking about it, it's crazy that I can even recollect this much, but I thought maybe I got off of the roof, I went on a foot patrol, I stepped on an IED.

Speaker 2 And just the last thing that my brain can register or remember is being on that roof. Those thoughts were interrupted by, and this will allude to Maureen's humor,

Speaker 2 but those thoughts were interrupted by what I thought was someone pouring warm water all over me. I'm thinking, really, guys? In this banged up state, I'm in.

Speaker 2 You're pouring warm water on me right now. But

Speaker 2 that final piece allowed the other ones to fall into place.

Speaker 2 And it gave me the surreal and unfortunate realization that what I was feeling was not warm water, that it was blood, and I was profusely bleeding out. So with physically how I felt,

Speaker 2 accompanied by the medical training we get as Marines before deploying, and just unfortunately the casualties I had seen so far on that deployment, with all of those combined, I knew that my time was inevitably limited.

Speaker 2 And so In my final few moments, you know, what I thought were my final few moments on this earth, I thought about my family, specifically my mother, and how devastated that she was going to be that I did not survive to make it home.

Speaker 1 A

Speaker 2 tiredness that is still

Speaker 2 almost 10 years later impossible to recount or describe completely consumed every fiber of my being.

Speaker 2 And I

Speaker 2 said a quick prayer for forgiveness in anything I had done wrong in my life. And I faded from consciousness in the world

Speaker 2 on that hot, dusty rooftop. And I woke up roughly five weeks later with snow outside of my hospital room window on the other side of the world.

Speaker 2 And my first sight was slowly opening the only eye I had left to Christmas stockings that were hanging on my hospital room wall that my mom had hung while she, of course, was hopefully and lovingly preparing for me to wake up and have life again

Speaker 1 tell me what your friends what you found out what you did tell me what your friends and your

Speaker 1 uh your co-marines said you did

Speaker 2 the

Speaker 2 I guess the first moment that anything came up about what I did or my actions on the roof that day, I was still early on in the hospital. It was end of February, and I had spent from

Speaker 2 November 28th when I arrived at Walter Reed

Speaker 1 through

Speaker 2 that January. So a couple of months later.
And once I got...

Speaker 2 through the,

Speaker 2 you know, let's try to keep him breathing, the life-saving steps, I was a little bit more stable, I moved down to what's called a polytrauma unit to spend my final third inpatient month in the hospital down there.

Speaker 2 You know, I was off of my trait, the ventilator. Most of the tubes were out of me, and I was able to get up and start walking around, going to therapy, speech therapy, and things like that.

Speaker 2 More follow-on steps than the immediate care.

Speaker 2 And it was one of my last few days in the hospital, and I have no idea how I made a trip to the mall while I was in the hospital, but

Speaker 2 and it wasn't to go shopping, but I think it was more just to get out

Speaker 2 with my therapist and get some fresh air, start to think about, you know, that transition out of the hospital, even though I was going to be in the hospital for many years, but transition to more of the outpatient side of things and start regaining my life again.

Speaker 2 But I was about to leave Richmond, Virginia, that polytrauma unit, and I was sitting in the food court at the mall.

Speaker 2 And my good buddy Griffin Welch called me. And Griffin, a good old boy from Mississippi, did four combat deployments and got out before

Speaker 2 he could even enjoy his first legal beer at 21. And so

Speaker 2 it was both of our first combat deployments with each other. And he had had called me and I was sitting there all wrapped up and bandaged up in my sling.
He told me that

Speaker 2 the Marines saw and knew what I did and they loved me and they believed that

Speaker 2 at least from their just boots on the ground perspective, they are with me, that they believed that I... should be and that they were going to recommend me for the Medal of Honor.

Speaker 2 Now with that said, we hang up that phone call,

Speaker 2 and for years until I got any further calls, I did not think about it one more time for one more second.

Speaker 1 And you still didn't really know what you had done, what they claimed you had done, or did he tell you what

Speaker 1 they were saying you did?

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 2 it's so strange because

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 could not have recounted the pieces and parts, right?

Speaker 2 But in a way,

Speaker 2 and I've never really brought this up because it's so

Speaker 2 unofficial.

Speaker 2 There was no point.

Speaker 2 I mean, this cannot, what I'm about to say could not have been a factor in the very extensive and thorough two-year and over 250-page official investigation done by the Marine Corps military.

Speaker 2 But I do remember

Speaker 2 as if my body was a shell and I had no

Speaker 2 cognitive abilities. I do remember being on my knees and moving forward towards something.
Now, again, this

Speaker 2 just plays into the strangeness of it because I don't remember seeing the grenade or thinking about it. But I do remember this empty shell of me falling forward.
And I remember,

Speaker 2 if I had to guess, being,

Speaker 2 you know, just knowing my body and playing sports and rough housing my whole life with my brothers and friends, I felt like I was just a few inches from landing on my face on the ground, face first.

Speaker 2 And I remember having just those few inches before I got, before I felt like I got hit really hard in the face with something.

Speaker 2 And so in a way, I vaguely remember maybe going through the motions, but again, I don't remember thinking about it. And, you know, they told me that.
And

Speaker 2 we hung up the phone. I thanked them.
They told me they were proud of me. I told them that I appreciate it and that I would see them soon.

Speaker 2 And, you know, that was it. And I got on with my recovery and my life.

Speaker 1 Well, the truth is, is that you threw yourself on the grenade

Speaker 1 to save everyone else.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I wanted to start there because I think some people would say

Speaker 1 that was the defining moment of your life, but I don't think it is.

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 1 it's so unnatural for someone to do that that you had to have defining moments in your life way before that would make that just an automatic movement. Does that make sense to you?

Speaker 2 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 So I want to talk about the defining moment of your life that had to have happened before the grenade. What were they?

Speaker 1 What makes a man automatically do that?

Speaker 1 Have you

Speaker 2 found those points?

Speaker 2 I appreciate you bringing this up and that is

Speaker 2 compared to many other interviews and

Speaker 2 people's opinions, that's a very profound insight because you're exactly right. It's always about that moment and that moment defines it for me.
And there's not too much emphasis on the before

Speaker 2 or the things which I'm most proud of that I've done since.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But before,

Speaker 2 like I talk about in the book,

Speaker 2 my foundation,

Speaker 2 like many people's came from

Speaker 2 my family

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 the people that I chose to surround myself with growing up and the people that thankfully just happened to

Speaker 2 you know our paths crossed

Speaker 2 from coaches to teachers

Speaker 2 So the first part of it is my family.

Speaker 2 I think first and foremost, just always truly loving and supporting me.

Speaker 2 From being there every single second from the moment I was born,

Speaker 2 from every single second, from the moment that I woke up and in a way, you know, was born again into this bonus round that I'm living now.

Speaker 2 for them to always

Speaker 2 encourage me and my brothers to not only

Speaker 2 find out who we are in the way and time that we need to,

Speaker 2 but to not inhibit us in any way. And

Speaker 2 even if

Speaker 2 the goals or aspirations were seemingly unrealistic or unattainable at the time or altogether, to make us feel like we could accomplish those things and achieve whatever we wanted to as long as we were good people who worked hard and gave back to others.

Speaker 2 And so it starts there.

Speaker 2 But then you go to those other people that helped shape me.

Speaker 2 The football and baseball coaches, my teachers, my

Speaker 2 friends,

Speaker 2 and all these people that have loved and supported me my whole life. But with that said,

Speaker 2 and I was hesitant to write so much about my parents and my family in the book because I wanted this book

Speaker 2 to not only transcend all boundaries, but to allow everyone to pick it up, understand it, and be able to take from it. And I didn't want to turn anyone off from it.

Speaker 2 And I know that I'm very fortunate. And a lot of people are not born into

Speaker 2 the best home life or they don't have two loving parents that are at every baseball and football game. So I struggle with that.

Speaker 2 But I ended up going with it because,

Speaker 2 you know, for those people that don't get that, I wanted to give an example of the love, you know, that you can give as a parent and what you can make it through. But

Speaker 2 all of those other people, my friends and coaches and and all of those people you know in life

Speaker 2 every experience every person

Speaker 2 every interaction we have

Speaker 2 everything is an opportunity

Speaker 2 and even the bad things even the bad things you can learn just maybe more importantly exactly

Speaker 2 exactly you can learn just as much

Speaker 2 you know good and bad from people and so

Speaker 2 I wasn't aware of it. And I don't believe I realized it at the time.
But now looking back, I'm so thankful that

Speaker 2 with every person,

Speaker 2 friend that I made,

Speaker 2 every person I worked with through in the chicken plant, my bosses there.

Speaker 2 I always tried to, like you said, look at, okay,

Speaker 2 if this person isn't the way I want to act, you know, carry myself,

Speaker 2 lead people in the workplace,

Speaker 2 I chose to try to take something from everyone

Speaker 2 and build upon that and think about it.

Speaker 2 And so, you know, with my family's foundation and all of those incredible people and the people that taught me how I maybe didn't want to conduct myself in my life.

Speaker 1 That,

Speaker 2 along with the third and very important

Speaker 2 kind of factor into this, is

Speaker 2 as

Speaker 2 Marines,

Speaker 2 starting out as recruits, going to boot camp,

Speaker 2 from the moment you pull up in that van and that van door is ripped open by the scariest human being you've ever seen

Speaker 2 you you know no one's got their hair cuts yet no one's got their uniforms everybody's dressed differently but you get out of the van very quickly and you stand on those yellow footprints and from that moment for the next 13 weeks of boot camp

Speaker 2 And for the next four years of your career, or 30 years,

Speaker 2 during boot cam and as a Marine your leaders and your mentors and your chain of command and those drill instructors

Speaker 2 you are

Speaker 2 you know people think oh it's your training you know they're always throwing grenades fake grenades everywhere and you're having to jump on them and It's not like that.

Speaker 2 I really don't even remember ever doing that.

Speaker 2 What it is, is

Speaker 2 they teach you

Speaker 2 through your history and your legacy.

Speaker 2 When you're doing that final crucible event of boot camp to earn that Eagle Globe and anchor, it's a 54 culminating,

Speaker 2 54 hour culminating event of everything you've learned, trained to do.

Speaker 2 No sleep, little food. You're,

Speaker 2 as you always are in the Marine Corps, cold, wet, hungry and absolutely miserable

Speaker 2 but in those moments and you're going through all of these obstacles in the crucible and and when you're the most run down and when you need it the most your drill instructors stop you and every obstacle there's a plaque

Speaker 2 and it tells of

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 2 courageous and superhuman Marines that came before you. Those generations of Marines that

Speaker 2 at 17, 18, 19 years old, when no one made them,

Speaker 1 they

Speaker 2 not only raised their right hand, like every generation has so amazingly done,

Speaker 2 but raised their right hand. They got on those landing crafts.

Speaker 2 And we're told, you're probably not even going to make it to have a chance to get out of that landing craft. And if you do,

Speaker 2 there's just as low of a chance that you're going to make it onto the beach or past the beach.

Speaker 2 Those Marines that covered grenades for their fellow Marines in Vietnam, the Marines that

Speaker 2 died and froze to death fighting in Korea to try to give those people, like in Afghanistan, a better way of life to wake up one day and just taste peace, freedom, and hope.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 to hear these stories, I just remember sitting there and thinking,

Speaker 2 first of all, how?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 second of all,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 it just makes you realize the uniform that you have on.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 the legacy and the sacrifice and courage. And again, generations that have worn that uniform and came before you.

Speaker 2 So with all of that said, that day on the roof, even though I don't remember the moments leading up to it or thinking about it,

Speaker 2 I'm thankful and proud that I stepped up.

Speaker 1 Does it surprise you that you were of that mindset?

Speaker 2 That I...

Speaker 1 Does it looking...

Speaker 1 Not being able to recognize that you did that, not having no memory of that,

Speaker 1 Does it surprise you that you did that?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. And

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 2 the beautiful thing about it is

Speaker 2 and this is the way I end the book, but

Speaker 2 people tell me all the time,

Speaker 2 you know, I just don't think I could have done what you did.

Speaker 2 I don't think I could cover a grenade even for my closest loved ones. I just don't think I could bring myself to do that.

Speaker 2 And ironically, the last conversation I was having before we got hit with my buddy on the roof.

Speaker 2 is what happens because we have been getting attacked for nonstop the 24 hours leading up to this moment.

Speaker 2 But, you know, what happens when they throw a grenade up here?

Speaker 2 Half joking to lighten the mood because it had been eerily quiet for the four hours leading up to this attack.

Speaker 2 But he said, hey, I'm off the roof. And I said, I'm right behind you.

Speaker 2 But with that said, that is, and just this book as a whole,

Speaker 2 is a journey of the human spirit. And those moments on the roof show

Speaker 2 that the beauty in the human spirit is you never know how,

Speaker 2 when, or to what capacity you're going to step up for your fellow man, for your fellow human, and

Speaker 2 big or small, how you're going to be

Speaker 1 a

Speaker 2 savior and a hero to those around you.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I think some of the people who talk a big game and

Speaker 1 you would expect to be heroes. Some of them will not be.
Others that you would never expect to do this miraculous thing do.

Speaker 1 I brought my kids to Auschwitz years ago because I believe the world is heading towards just catastrophe and hatred and groups and all of this stuff.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I said to them,

Speaker 1 this is when people decide what they're going to do and who they're going to be. It's never in the moment.
It's never in the moment.

Speaker 1 You,

Speaker 1 it's not like you ever thought, am I going to jump on a grenade? But it was those things that you did to know

Speaker 1 who you really are,

Speaker 1 what you believe, who you, you know, who you fight for and

Speaker 1 And who your teammates are around you. And then it's just automatically kicks in.
Do you think that's true or not?

Speaker 2 I completely agree.

Speaker 2 I completely agree.

Speaker 1 Which is why you're surprised that you did it because it wasn't, you weren't thinking, you're not thinking, oh, geez, this will really, I might die. It just happens.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. I mean, you know, going off what you just said, I think

Speaker 2 you really take any aspect of life

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 very few things are ever in the moment.

Speaker 2 Very few things ever come up without the ability

Speaker 2 to

Speaker 2 have steps of preparation beforehand. And many times you might not know exactly where those steps will take you clearly.

Speaker 2 But I think you're exactly right. I think

Speaker 2 it's very rare, if ever, just strictly in the moment and only in the moment.

Speaker 1 That's what our moms were trying to say. I think when they say, show me your friends, I'll show you your future.

Speaker 1 It's not that they're going to drag you down there or anything else, but you're training yourself to think like that, to be like that, to accept that.

Speaker 1 And if that's how you're training yourself to be,

Speaker 1 that's generally who you will be. I was struck by

Speaker 1 You know, your name of your book is You Are Worth It.

Speaker 1 But building a life worth fighting for I don't think most people understand

Speaker 1 I think only those who have had real struggles

Speaker 1 understand that life and every bit of it is a choice and if you just let it happen to you

Speaker 1 You're probably going to not be very fulfilled and happy and you're probably going to end up a little bitter, you know, But if you understand,

Speaker 1 I am only a product of what I choose to build, life changes.

Speaker 1 Did you understand that

Speaker 1 before

Speaker 1 your grenade,

Speaker 1 or was that something you discovered

Speaker 1 after?

Speaker 1 That, okay,

Speaker 1 now I have this

Speaker 1 massive issue, and I'm going to have to rebuild.

Speaker 2 I think I understood it

Speaker 2 about

Speaker 1 as

Speaker 1 well

Speaker 2 I think I understood it

Speaker 2 just about as well as any

Speaker 2 teenager or kid growing up could.

Speaker 2 I saw that

Speaker 2 if I worked hard off the football field in the weight room,

Speaker 2 that translated to

Speaker 2 when the lights turned on.

Speaker 2 I studied ahead of time, which is always a struggle for most kids growing up.

Speaker 2 The grades correlate in the classroom.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 I think I understood it a little bit, but did I actually realize it and

Speaker 2 think about it? Maybe not, but after is where

Speaker 2 my insight and perspective,

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 you know, those trials and tribulations came, I got knocked down, and at times I was forced to search through the darkness for those silver linings, those faint glimmers of hope.

Speaker 2 But to answer your question, I think most, mostly after. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's interesting. You know, we were just talking about you don't know who you're going to be.

Speaker 1 You know, it appears to me you have two heroes in your life, at least two heroes in your life, your mom and dad. And

Speaker 1 in the book, you talk about how

Speaker 1 dad kind of fell apart when he first heard about it. Mom was strong.
Was it that way? No, it was mom fell apart and dad was strong.

Speaker 1 And then when they got to the hospital and they first saw you, dad fell apart. And and mom all of a sudden stepped to the plate.

Speaker 2 It was a good tag team effort.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 A very hard one, but a good one and it worked out.

Speaker 1 How did your parents help

Speaker 1 you through all of this?

Speaker 1 Did you have...

Speaker 1 What were you...

Speaker 1 What were you feeling about your life? Because a lot of people would go,

Speaker 1 my life is over.

Speaker 1 What were you feeling when you became really aware in the hospital of what you were facing?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so when I really started to wake up and become aware,

Speaker 2 it would be easy to think, and maybe a lot of people would think

Speaker 2 instantly

Speaker 2 negative, and

Speaker 2 this is so detrimental. Instant, no hope.

Speaker 2 But the more I woke up and became more and more lucid,

Speaker 2 every single

Speaker 2 realization or every single injury that I had

Speaker 2 just made me

Speaker 2 more and more thankful and surprised

Speaker 2 and really shocked that I was alive.

Speaker 1 So did you have a moment? I mean, where did the grenade go off? About here?

Speaker 2 In the upper right quadrant.

Speaker 1 How did you live

Speaker 2 yeah there's still there's even still a hole in the roof that you can find on Google Earth from and that was that was part of that two-year investigation along with the eyewitnesses

Speaker 2 they brought a post-blast analysis team an explosive ordnance disposal team to analyze forensically my gear and the roof. But one of the pieces in that investigation was

Speaker 2 things in life, blast forces take the path of least resistance.

Speaker 2 And my

Speaker 2 body armor, backed by my body weight, was stronger and more dense than the roof. So the grenade actually blew down through the roof.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 And so they found me face down, face first, in the crater. and with the seat of the blast where it exploded under me.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 you're a religious guy.

Speaker 2 I am.

Speaker 1 Were you religious before then?

Speaker 2 I was. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So there has to be something that goes on in your head with a guy who doesn't isn't prone to thinking poor me.

Speaker 1 There has to be

Speaker 1 what was I saved for?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 I,

Speaker 2 you know, after all of this, a lot of people think that, oh, you know,

Speaker 2 your

Speaker 2 faith and your religion must be stronger than ever and completely unshakable now.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I don't

Speaker 2 believe any less,

Speaker 2 but what I went through

Speaker 2 has

Speaker 2 unfortunately planted and given me more questions than I had before

Speaker 2 because when I

Speaker 2 when I closed my eyes for what I thought was the last time

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 the lights went out

Speaker 2 it was

Speaker 2 I can't even say darkness because I feel like to know darkness, you have to have a cognizant thought process.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I guess the only way I can, at least right now, accurately describe it is just nothing.

Speaker 1 Avoid. Avoid, exactly.

Speaker 2 And I...

Speaker 1 So you were aware of the void.

Speaker 2 After I woke up.

Speaker 1 Correct.

Speaker 2 And so, and you know, I was resuscitated three times when I got to the first combat combat trauma hospital. In my medical record on paper, it has PEA beside my name, pulseless electrical activity.

Speaker 2 And so, you know,

Speaker 2 I'm still working through that. I'm still thinking about that.

Speaker 2 And like with many of the daunting and...

Speaker 2 tough impossible questions of life.

Speaker 2 I think the way the reason they are those questions is because a lot of times no matter what we do, maybe just living and

Speaker 2 figuring out those answers as we continue on,

Speaker 2 they might come to us. But I think they are a lot of times the daunting and difficult questions because no matter what we do,

Speaker 2 we can't have an answer or we can't rush those answers.

Speaker 1 We have to find it ourselves.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 Faith is an important part. Exactly.

Speaker 1 But why has it bothered you? I mean, you don't remember doing it, what happened. You don't remember all of that.

Speaker 1 Why has this void bothered you?

Speaker 1 Why would you... I'm just trying to think.
You don't remember so much.

Speaker 1 Why do you just remember that so vividly and clearly?

Speaker 2 Well, I think like much of my journey, it's been

Speaker 2 an evolution mentally, physically, and emotionally.

Speaker 2 And so the first few years after everything happened, I was frustrated that I couldn't remember the actual moment.

Speaker 2 And that was probably

Speaker 2 amplified times 100 because, not because I was just organically frustrated. But the entire world, the military

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 teams of people out there

Speaker 1 were

Speaker 2 you know from the ground in Afghanistan to the Pentagon were looking into scrutinizing newspapers media

Speaker 2 everyone was looking into these few seconds of my life

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 2 as much as I wanted to I could not and probably

Speaker 2 was never going to be able to remember.

Speaker 2 And so,

Speaker 2 and it wasn't frustration that I was worried that one story might come out and then another story.

Speaker 2 And then I might seem like, even though I didn't really even have testimony or a word in all of this, that I just might seem illegitimate.

Speaker 2 But then I thought, you know, my Marines that were there with me, no matter what happens,

Speaker 2 they know who I am.

Speaker 2 person I am.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 just one day thinking about it, I finally, it just hit me and I realized how wrong of

Speaker 2 a mindset and a thought process this was, that I should just be so

Speaker 2 unbelievably grateful and thankful that I woke up to even be frustrated at this and that I'm alive.

Speaker 2 And so from that second that I had that realization on, I've never once got frustrated or been out of shape about not being able to remember those events again.

Speaker 1 So was part of that frustration because I think I'm hearing you say

Speaker 1 because you couldn't remember it, you were afraid this was a fraud.

Speaker 2 Well, no, it was just

Speaker 1 or you were unworthy.

Speaker 2 Well, you know, newspapers,

Speaker 2 articles came out and the titles were, did Lance Corporal Carpenter cover this grenade or not?

Speaker 2 So there was all of that talk going on. And then

Speaker 2 the Marine Corps and investigators had called me,

Speaker 1 were

Speaker 2 talking to everyone that was there. And there was just so much rhetoric going on just about

Speaker 2 moments in my life that I myself didn't have. So I think it was just a mix of everything.
And

Speaker 2 it wasn't so much the fraud thing. It was just that I guess I couldn't contribute to these moments in my own life.

Speaker 1 Do you feel like you deserve the Medal of Honor?

Speaker 1 I've never got asked that before.

Speaker 1 Feel worthy of it?

Speaker 2 I am.

Speaker 2 I'm proud of

Speaker 2 how I stepped up as a friend and marine when I needed to be.

Speaker 2 And as beautiful

Speaker 2 of a burden

Speaker 2 and heavy as the metal is

Speaker 2 and such responsibility,

Speaker 2 I am humbled that I have a platform

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 2 I can

Speaker 2 use to

Speaker 2 connect with,

Speaker 2 encourage, and help others, and also

Speaker 2 educate and bring to light

Speaker 2 so many stories that there wasn't Medal of Honors.

Speaker 2 Whether that was because no one around them survived to tell the tale,

Speaker 1 or

Speaker 2 somewhere in some crazy paperwork process,

Speaker 2 it maybe just didn't happen.

Speaker 1 So you realize that's the way somebody who's worthy of that medal would answer that question.

Speaker 2 Well, that's, I guess, another thinking point that I need to

Speaker 2 go to brainstorming on.

Speaker 1 Talk to me a little bit about

Speaker 1 In your recovery process, you talk about in the book how

Speaker 1 you're going to go on a mud run. You're talking about skydiving, and

Speaker 1 mom and dad are like, God, Lord,

Speaker 1 no, please, don't.

Speaker 1 And you get to this point to where you're like, I can't be afraid.

Speaker 1 Can you talk about that?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 first of all, I'm going to watch Jeff to do this to me. Mom already says that for the rest of her life, I should be funding her hair color treatment.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 2 but

Speaker 2 yes, and actually specifically speaking about the mud run

Speaker 2 and looking back, you know, now I

Speaker 2 it still makes me a little nervous thinking about some of those very high, slippery, muddy obstacles,

Speaker 2 you know, while I was doing those, how wrong that could have gone.

Speaker 2 But going into that mud run,

Speaker 2 and I was only maybe halfway through my three years of recovery.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 leading up to that mud run, I really

Speaker 2 sat down and I always try to

Speaker 2 think about things deeply and really self-reflect and

Speaker 2 not only on where I've been, but also where I'm going.

Speaker 2 And as I was thinking about that mud run,

Speaker 2 still surgeries left to go. I just thought,

Speaker 2 you know, if I don't do this,

Speaker 2 what else is that going to lead to?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 this is part of you building yourself back up. Right.

Speaker 1 Because you always had like a short thing, didn't you? Didn't you always kind of have an

Speaker 1 like I'm short and I'm a little guy and you know

Speaker 2 well I think that's just that's just obvious

Speaker 2 anyone that CZ, I don't ever think I had to make it known.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 1 so you but you had had to kind of do things to

Speaker 1 make sure that you were like, no, it doesn't stop me from doing anything. So you're now back at that place, except with different reasons for saying that.

Speaker 2 And you're right. Growing up on the football field and in the weight room and things like that,

Speaker 2 not that I ever just put it out there, hey, you know, I'm this small guy that's trying to prove something. But when I did prove something,

Speaker 2 it was, you know, nice rubbing it into the

Speaker 2 older and bigger guys, the guys that were above five foot five right uh

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 2 not only was I thinking okay

Speaker 2 if I don't do this what will that lead to but also if I do break my arm

Speaker 2 is that better than not doing it and living with that regret

Speaker 2 and so just working through thought thought process like that but you know I did it and I did not do another one but I'm very thankful I did and

Speaker 1 I,

Speaker 2 just like many

Speaker 2 parts of my journey,

Speaker 2 doing that challenge, pushing myself through that, especially during my time in the hospital and when I was still rediscovering myself and building this new life,

Speaker 2 it taught me. And it taught me that I can do more than I think I can right now.

Speaker 2 And I'm not,

Speaker 2 you know, just getting back to this new banged up person.

Speaker 2 I'm getting back to

Speaker 2 a new,

Speaker 2 potentially even

Speaker 2 bigger and better me and Kyle.

Speaker 1 So are you there? Are you a better,

Speaker 1 are you, this sounds so bad,

Speaker 1 but I understand

Speaker 1 my father taught me this when I was young after my mom had a suicide. You know, she committed suicide and alcoholic family, divorce, blah, blah, blah.
Everything was going.

Speaker 1 By the time I was 30, I was like, woohoo, poor me. And my father taught me that in a very clever way, that there is no bad.
It's what you do with it. And so

Speaker 1 I look at... all the tragedies, you know, and I think,

Speaker 1 well, I wouldn't want to go through that again and I wouldn't assign that to somebody. It made me who I am.
And I'm a better, stronger person because of my failures or because of whatever.

Speaker 1 Are you a better person today than you were?

Speaker 2 Absolutely. And I would not

Speaker 2 trade anything that I've been through, even that moment on the roof. Now, do I wish I could have taken the entire blast?

Speaker 2 And Nick could have walked away perfectly unharmed and completely fine. And even if I wouldn't have woken up in the hospital five weeks later, yes.

Speaker 1 Or even

Speaker 1 the grenade wasn't thrown on the roof.

Speaker 1 Um

Speaker 1 no, I uh

Speaker 2 you're grateful for the grenade? I am

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 I am

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 who I am now,

Speaker 2 you know, just in a in a selfish me sense

Speaker 1 you seem pretty selfish

Speaker 2 the experiences I've had

Speaker 2 the people I've met the journey I've had

Speaker 2 has you know

Speaker 2 been incredible

Speaker 1 so do you ever watch TV or listen to people

Speaker 1 that are constantly whining about how their

Speaker 1 life is so bad. And, you know, Greta Thurnberg, and I don't, I don't want to get you into names and stuff, but, you know, that 16-year-old kid, you stole my childhood.

Speaker 1 Do you ever just watch people on TV and go,

Speaker 1 are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 I went through this and I'm happy and I'm...

Speaker 1 I'm actually don't, I don't think I'd want my grenade, my life,

Speaker 1 to be gone. And you're bitching about your grenade?

Speaker 1 That's a good thing.

Speaker 1 Do you ever, are you always just very empathetic and kind?

Speaker 1 Both.

Speaker 2 Both. And it's a healthy amount of both.
But one thing I've realized through my journey is

Speaker 1 struggle

Speaker 2 is the last thing we should ever compare.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it's

Speaker 2 maybe natural too, because you can't not, when you hear other struggles, you obviously can't forget about your struggles.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 I think to compare struggle or who has it worse or who's been through more is a very dangerous

Speaker 2 thing

Speaker 2 and can lead to very unhealthy things and a very unhealthy mindset.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 maybe a story to kind of illustrate this is

Speaker 2 I did my three years at Walter Reed. I used my last six, eight months there, which was just a medical board paperwork process to allow me to medically retire.

Speaker 2 I completed all my surgeries and therapy and I used my time towards the end there to do two internships and

Speaker 2 start working on

Speaker 2 redoing my SAT and ACT test, writing college admissions, paperwork. I got a tutor to start coming to the hospital to help me do that.

Speaker 2 And so after three years in the hospital, right before that, I was toting machine guns through Afghanistan. Two weeks after I left the hospital, I

Speaker 2 was moving into

Speaker 2 my new apartment in Columbia, South Carolina, and walking to freshman classes.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 daily, if not daily, weekly,

Speaker 2 students came up to me and

Speaker 2 it just obviously was much more during my sophomore year after I received the medal.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 so many times they would run up and say, oh, you're the guy that won the Purple Heart.

Speaker 1 You're like,

Speaker 1 no,

Speaker 2 kind of, but I didn't enter the annual win of Purple Heart competition, you know.

Speaker 2 And also, I,

Speaker 2 you know, realized that probably by the way you're asking, you don't know the difference between the Medal of Honor and the Purple Heart.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 during those moments, I'm thankful that I realized. Because I had to take a deep breath a couple of times.

Speaker 2 And I had to realize that just like we said at the beginning, every

Speaker 2 encounter, every

Speaker 2 opportunity, every crossroads in life, good or bad, is a choice.

Speaker 2 And it presents you with the choice.

Speaker 2 And in that moment, I could have got frustrated,

Speaker 1 told them

Speaker 2 what I could have in a very marine, aggressive-like manner.

Speaker 2 But not only would that have probably

Speaker 2 turned them off from me, but it would have

Speaker 2 given them what they might think is an idea of how all Marines are.

Speaker 2 And they wouldn't have gotten properly educated on the difference between the Purple Heart and the Medal of Honor and the fact that we don't set out to win these medals.

Speaker 1 You know, it's interesting. It was FDR that changed the Purple Heart.
We didn't discover the Purple Heart that comes from the Badge of Merit from Washington in the Revolutionary War. It was the first

Speaker 1 award given to

Speaker 1 an enlisted man in the history of battle. And

Speaker 1 it was actually a Purple Heart, and it said on it, merit, and you would sew it to your uniform. Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1 And you were put into

Speaker 1 his, I think it was called the Book of Remembrance, because he believed that if we were going to win against England, we had to be people that were

Speaker 1 good and honorable and decent. And if you were caught doing something of merit, if you were doing something good,

Speaker 1 That's how you got the Purple Heart.

Speaker 1 We only rediscovered this

Speaker 1 turn of last century, There's only three Purple Hearts left from the Revolutionary War.

Speaker 1 And the book is gone.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 you did earn the Purple Heart.

Speaker 1 Not the way that

Speaker 1 the FDR from that point on

Speaker 1 says it.

Speaker 1 But you earned it the way Washington did. We didn't have a Medal of Honor back then.
It was the Purple Heart.

Speaker 1 So you deserve both of them for

Speaker 1 now and

Speaker 1 back then.

Speaker 1 You write in your book. I want to read a part.

Speaker 1 Not long ago, I'm walking down town in Columbia. I passed two homeless men talking on the street.
I just came from a meeting, was dressed up, and one of them said kindly, Looking sharp, brother.

Speaker 1 I thanked them, and I admit I waited for the follow-up question if I had any money. But as I continued walking, nothing else was said.
I reached my car, but I couldn't shake him from my mind.

Speaker 1 Half my brain was telling me to turn around and talk to him, and the other half was telling me just to forget about it and drive away.

Speaker 1 I stood there with the car door open, wrestling with myself what I should do. It seemed silly to walk all the way back there, but I couldn't get into my car.

Speaker 1 I didn't know what I was doing, but I thought to myself, what if this is the last time you you see this nice man?

Speaker 1 I think we as people have this thought

Speaker 1 all the time. All the time.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 we have that argument in our head all the time.

Speaker 1 And most of us ignore it.

Speaker 1 But it

Speaker 1 makes a difference if you act on that and exercise that muscle every time, doesn't it?

Speaker 2 Absolutely. And you never know what

Speaker 2 touching moments or

Speaker 1 impact.

Speaker 2 Impact and just

Speaker 1 powerful,

Speaker 2 for me, emotional. I mean, that story, shout out to my man Kenny, by the way.

Speaker 2 Emotional, I mean, that story still chokes me up because we go on to to talk and

Speaker 2 he asked me and I offered to go get him some snacks at the college mart up the street

Speaker 2 and he asked me hey can you get me some cigarettes and immediately pointed out that he doesn't smoke so of course I had to ask you know Kenny why do you need cigarettes if you don't smoke and he told me that

Speaker 2 cigarettes are like gold down at the homeless shelter that he can sell each one for two dollars

Speaker 2 and then that allows him to get more food you know for uh for the days ahead

Speaker 2 and so i'm so thankful i did and you're right i think we are presented with uh those dilemmas opportunities situations all the time and i'm just i'm proud of myself but i'm thankful that I didn't shut the car door and I turned around because it taught me a

Speaker 2 valuable life lesson and it just reminded me that you know life is

Speaker 2 life is

Speaker 2 not only choices but it's

Speaker 2 something that

Speaker 2 you choose the lenses you look through

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 1 you

Speaker 2 we always have to strive to continue to remind ourselves and to understand

Speaker 2 and empathize that

Speaker 2 there are so many people

Speaker 2 in this country around the world

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 2 wake up every day and

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 from

Speaker 2 not knowing what school is

Speaker 2 to not having shoes on their feet,

Speaker 2 to not knowing

Speaker 2 where their next meal is going to come from.

Speaker 2 And so, um,

Speaker 1 did you there's a difference between kindness,

Speaker 1 being gracious, um, being helpful,

Speaker 1 um,

Speaker 1 even being caring,

Speaker 1 and empathy.

Speaker 1 Empathy is,

Speaker 1 I've lived it. I know it.
I can feel your pain. Not just see it, but I can feel it.

Speaker 1 Do you think your

Speaker 1 journey has

Speaker 1 given that to you, or have you always had that empathetic side?

Speaker 2 I think I've always had it, but my journey has

Speaker 2 heightened it

Speaker 2 and continuously refines it, which might not be the perfect word.

Speaker 1 I think epithet, I think this is, I think it's like a muscle.

Speaker 1 The more you listen to that voice and you make the choice of don't get into the car, it gets stronger.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and maybe it really started when I was in high school. I went on a mission trip to the Dominican Republic.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 for a week there, we built a couple of schools and churches and just hung out with the local kids, played soccer. But

Speaker 2 it was so

Speaker 1 just

Speaker 2 so profound to me when we got there.

Speaker 2 And we were walking and making our way to this neighborhood where we were going to help and work.

Speaker 2 And as we got closer, we were working our way down into a landfill.

Speaker 2 We get to the bottom of this landfill, and there are shacks all over the place.

Speaker 2 And the people there,

Speaker 2 not only could they have not been happier, I mean, they are amazing,

Speaker 2 struggling every day of their lives, but so happy and just so thankful for us to bring a soccer ball to them.

Speaker 2 And so I think I've always been empathetic growing up, but when that happened, that really planted that seed of empathy. And I got to truly see

Speaker 2 not everywhere in the world is

Speaker 2 like the southeast of the United States growing up.

Speaker 2 And so I'm so, like many parts of my journey, I'm so thankful for that.

Speaker 2 That's very interesting. It is like a muscle.
I would agree with you.

Speaker 1 Last thing from your book for weeks afterward I would wake up wondering now what

Speaker 1 Every morning started with a question for which I didn't have an answer Except to do whatever the next thing was that day.

Speaker 1 I Develop Developed a daily mantra and I still say something similar to myself each morning.

Speaker 1 I don't know what I want to do or how I'm going to do it or where I might end up, but as long as I work hard, try to do the right thing, try to be a good person, and try to help people, I can't go wrong doing that.

Speaker 1 You kind of dismiss that as, you know, you say, that's not the profound piece of wisdom that, you know,

Speaker 1 has ever been uttered. But

Speaker 1 I think this is why your story is so important and impactful is.

Speaker 1 It's really back to basics. We've lost the basics.
I was raised believing that.

Speaker 1 A lot of people don't believe that anymore.

Speaker 1 But if you just work hard, try to do the right thing, be kind to people, things will work out and it'll be good.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 on top of that, I think

Speaker 2 it's important to remind people that you don't always have to have a perfect plan.

Speaker 2 One of the favorite lines in my book is, the smallest of steps eventually completes the grandest of journeys.

Speaker 2 And after

Speaker 2 that first initial three months of recovery at Walter Reed in Richmond, Virginia,

Speaker 2 at the time, instead of going back up to Walter Reed,

Speaker 2 Late 2010 through 2011, there were so many casualties coming in that at one point they started

Speaker 2 overflowing beds into the hallway. And every room had two patients in it.

Speaker 2 And so knowing that I had many years left for them to put Humpty Dumpty back together again,

Speaker 2 they allowed me, and also getting to know my family over those months, those initial months that I was there.

Speaker 2 knowing that my family was going to really look out and take care of me, and they allowed me to go home to recover from March until that September of 2011 when a new, very nice wounded warrior barracks building was going to open up on Walter Reed that they were currently under construction.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 so it was March, April timeframe.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it was around 10 o'clock at night, another long day of therapy.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 anyone listening to clarify, the agreement was that I could go home and recover, get mom's food, hang out with the dog, lay on the couch, as long as we agreed that mom would drive me back up to D.C.

Speaker 2 every two weeks to get another surgery. And I would do therapy at my local clinic in Lexington, South Carolina.

Speaker 2 And so I was at home again about 10 o'clock at night and I went

Speaker 2 to

Speaker 2 take on the daunting task of making myself a bowl of cereal.

Speaker 2 And at the time,

Speaker 2 I hadn't had the nerve surgeries to repair those

Speaker 2 what are now connections, but at the time were uh

Speaker 2 were breaks in my nerves. So my wrists hung really bad.
I was down on my weight, no muscle on my arms. The milk might as well have been a hundred-pound dumbbell.

Speaker 2 I got it out, I poured the cereal,

Speaker 2 but it was a struggle to hold the spoon.

Speaker 2 The grenade blew most of my teeth out, and I was still many facial and oral reconstructive surgeries away from having any sort of form or teeth in there.

Speaker 2 Because my face was damaged so badly, the nerves

Speaker 2 and my face were severed as well.

Speaker 2 And so I finally championed the task, mission accomplished. I made the bowl of cereal,

Speaker 2 but that was only half the battle. Now I had to try to eat it.
I'm sitting at the kitchen counter

Speaker 2 and I can't really feel it, but I know milk is going everywhere.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 in that moment, I completely broke.

Speaker 2 I mean, to my core.

Speaker 2 And I know it was because not only was I frustrated with the task at hand, but for the previous three or four months, I had been so strong,

Speaker 2 forcing myself to be so strong and positive, not show any pain, put a smile on my face every day

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 I'm the one that joined. I raised my right hand.
Now my parents are

Speaker 2 visibly suffering through this burden of recovery with me. And that has been by far the hardest part of my whole journey.
Seeing them on the other side of that hospital bed.

Speaker 2 And as a caretaker, wounded warrior or not, I think at times it's harder to be on the other side of that bed,

Speaker 2 to not be able to help with the pain.

Speaker 2 to see that person trying to breathe through that tube and straw in their neck for every breath to see the tears come because the pain is so great you can't even pretend to mask it.

Speaker 2 And so I had been so strong, but in that moment, it was also the first time,

Speaker 2 probably since I joined the Marine Corps, that I had been completely by myself

Speaker 2 in silence. with only me, my banged up body, and the thoughts that were in my head and the ringing in my ears.

Speaker 2 And so I completely broke. My mom ran in, she was in the other room, in the living room.
She rushed in, she thought I was in pain,

Speaker 2 asking me, you know, what happened, what's wrong.

Speaker 2 And through the sobs, I just choked out,

Speaker 2 Look at me, who's ever going to love me again?

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 in life,

Speaker 2 many times

Speaker 2 the most difficult of times teach us the most beautiful of lessons

Speaker 2 and so I'm so thankful that I decided to try to make that cereal and eat it and I'm so thankful that I broke in that moment

Speaker 2 because it gave me a lifelong lesson and realization that I still carry with me every single day

Speaker 2 and that I present to everyone, anyone I talk to, people that read the book.

Speaker 2 And this is going to be a tough pill to swallow for some people.

Speaker 2 But you have to realize

Speaker 2 that no matter what happens in life,

Speaker 2 no matter how hard you get knocked down or blown up,

Speaker 2 you cut out the noise

Speaker 2 and you truly only have

Speaker 1 two choices, two options.

Speaker 2 And that is,

Speaker 2 this is what I'm so thankful I realized,

Speaker 2 you can either get up

Speaker 2 and take that small step,

Speaker 2 or you're going to sit at that kitchen counter for the rest of your life. And again, you don't have to have a perfect plan.

Speaker 2 You You don't have to know exactly what you're doing, what the next day holds, what even the next hour of therapy in that session holds.

Speaker 2 All you have to know is again, the smallest of steps eventually completes the grandest of journeys. And you, you can,

Speaker 2 you might be physically, mentally, and emotionally different after getting knocked down.

Speaker 2 But even if you are, it's completely okay. We all have our own unique struggles.
We all heal in our own time.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 even

Speaker 2 after getting knocked down, if you're physically, mentally, emotionally different, you can still come back better and stronger than you were before.

Speaker 2 You might be missing an eye. You might have a lobster claw for a hand.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 You can come back and run a marathon.

Speaker 2 Jump out of a plane. run a mud run and drive your mom crazy.

Speaker 2 It's okay to struggle. It's okay to not be the same.

Speaker 2 And with that said, exactly what you're saying earlier, learn from those times that you get knocked down and those hard moments.

Speaker 1 Learn who you really are.

Speaker 2 Learn and know and realize that you can push yourself past any limits that you thought were your limits. You can

Speaker 2 always strive to become the best version of yourself.

Speaker 1 It's an honor to talk to you. Thank you very much.
It's an honor to meet you. And I can't wait to see what your life is like in 10 years or 15 years from now.
Your journey has just begun. God bless.

Speaker 2 I appreciate that, sir.

Speaker 1 Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.