The SCARIEST Haunted House and Why It SHOULDN’T Be Banned | Guests: Russ McKamey, Bill O’Reilly, & Megan Phelps-Roper | 11/1/19

It is a story that

I actually bought from him to make a movie out of,

probably 2008, and held his story and just couldn't get it made and couldn't find the time and yada, yada, yada, and finally gave him the story back to publish a book

because I think it's one of the most incredible stories you've ever, ever heard.

So make sure you don't miss, don't miss tomorrow's podcast.

It's incredible.

This guy, what he has gone through and endured, and he beats himself up still today.

He's still healing.

But when you hear this story, it will blow your mind.

Blow your mind.

All right.

We have, we have, what is it, the McCamey

Manor?

We have a guy who runs the scariest haunted house in the world.

In fact, he'll give you twenty thousand dollars if you can complete it.

It lasts 10 hours.

It's a three to four hour waiver.

It takes you three to four hours to sit and go over the waiver before you go in.

It's a crazy story.

Next.

The fusion of entertainment and enlightenment.

All right, so there are

there are haunted houses

and then there's McCamey Manor.

McCamey Manor

has been a, if I can call it this, a haunted house at different locations for over 30 years.

It has,

it's called the scariest haunted house in the world, but it's not really a haunted house.

You go in one at a time.

The waiver

takes you three to four hours to go over and complete.

And if you complete the haunted house,

The owner, the guy who runs it, will give you $20,000.

Again, it's been running for 30 years.

No one has ever collected.

Russ McCamey, the owner of the manor,

joins us next.

This is the Glenbeck program.

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McCamey Manor, not your standard haunted house.

It's an audience participation event in which you, as an individual, will live your own horror movie.

You have to be in great health.

You have to be drug-free.

You have to have a doctor's slip, I believe.

You go through all kinds of

things that you must complete, including a three- to four-hour release form.

And

of all things, you also cannot swear.

This is the craziest thing ever.

Russ McCainy is the owner.

He's been doing it for about 30 years.

And there is actually a petition now to get him to stop doing it.

Nobody's hurt by it.

It's not any kind of sexual gratification kind of thing.

This guy used to be in the military

and

knows how to get to people.

And he is a fascinating individual.

Russ, how are you?

Do we have Russ on the?

I see him there.

We have him.

For some reason, we can't get him on the phone.

All right, can you call him back, please?

For some reason, our phones aren't working.

This is really going to piss me off.

There he is.

Ross, how are you?

I'm here.

Yeah.

Where are you guys at?

Oh, we're here.

We're just your worst nightmare.

No, actually,

I can't, I really cannot understand what's happening here because everything I've heard about you is that you are a really good, normal, nice guy.

And yet you

bring everybody's worst nightmare to reality.

Yeah, they get kind of hysterical about this whole thing.

And I don't know what the deal is.

I mean, it happens every year around this time of the year.

You know, the whole shut McCamey banner down.

But no, I don't get it either.

It's just that, well, I do get it.

So I make these crazy movies.

I make these wild YouTube films.

And they look scary because they're supposed to look scary.

I mean,

I'm a filmmaker, so I'm trying to make it look as scary as possible.

And people just get really upset, blow things way out of proportion, and now they're doing anything and everything to shut me down.

And I don't know if it's going to happen.

I mean, this is America.

This is, you know.

Look, Russi, here's the thing.

I am so intrigued by you.

You're a fan of the show, are you not?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, okay.

So you're, I mean, a lot of people on the left would say that shows how sick you are, but I'm fascinated by you because you are a, you,

you are a,

you don't seem to be doing this just for hype or for kicks.

You've never hurt anybody, right?

No.

Okay.

No, it's it's not that.

No one gets hurt.

It's very safe.

It just seems frightening when you're going through it.

It's all just a big, a big show, big illusion.

But I definitely have a few people kind of fooled into thinking it's something other than it is, I suspect.

right?

But you have been

seen a video where you've buried a person except for their open mouth.

You gotta put a cage over somebody's face and then bury them alive,

obviously.

I mean,

who hasn't done that before?

Right, right, right.

So, I'm wondering, let's just start here.

Why do people do this?

They're just major adrenaline junkies.

These are people who have lived and they've done all the bungee jumping and skydiving and then all the exciting things out there, and nothing really affects them anymore.

So they come to me like, oh, I really want to feel this again.

I want to feel what it was like when I rolled my first roller coaster or saw my first scary movie.

Help me out, Ruff, help me out.

I'm like, okay, I can help you out.

That's bizarre.

So it's not a, it's definitely not some sort of

sexual thing.

There's none of that going on.

No, in fact,

there's three very

big rules in the matter.

There's nothing sexual, there's nothing inappropriate, and there's nothing religious.

So we keep it.

There's nothing satanic or

there's nothing like that in there whatsoever.

It never has been.

It's very PG-13.

It's just like an Indiana Jones ride on steroids, kind of, you know, and like you mentioned, there's no cussing.

I mean, how scary can it be?

There's no cussing.

Well, there's no cussing.

You are, you find you everybody starts with 20 grand.

And then I understand that if you cuss, you're docked $500.

So

there might be cussing, but they're penalized for it.

That's right, that's right.

Okay.

You learn real fast.

Well, I won't say that anymore.

And so, yeah.

So now each of these are

custom to each person because aren't you just doing

really enhanced interrogations?

Basically, yes.

And it's customized for that one individual, our two folks that go through per week.

It's funny, you know, we talk to their parents or talk to their family and friends or the co-workers,

and they're more than willing to throw them under the bus.

They're more than willing to give us all the dirt about what really scares them.

And so we do a lot of investigative work to find out what's going to make a good show of that individual before anything starts.

So there's a lot to it.

It's not just showing up and going, okay, I'm here, Russ, torture me now.

You know, and I hate that word because no one's tortured anyways.

But, you know, that's what the audience seems to think.

And that's why that petition has gained so much speed, but it's just incredible.

It's like 80,000 plus

signatures now, maybe more than that.

It's over a haunted house, over somebody just doing a hobby.

It's not even a business.

It's just

a little hobby.

People pay you in dog food.

Right.

Dog food.

Yes.

One big bag of dog food helps towards rescue animals.

And yeah, so that's payment right there.

It is.

It's crazy.

Okay.

All right.

Let me just add it.

Is there...

I mean, if you go through enhanced interrogation,

I know Navy SEALs and I know people in the military who have gone through it for real, and it does psychologically scar you.

Well, hopefully we're not scarring anybody.

It's not as intense as if you went to like Sears School, which is search and rescue and survival school, that type of thing, and our Buds training, you know, which is SEAL training.

It's not like that, but I definitely do take aspects.

of what I learned in the military after 23 years.

And it's just a lot of common sense.

I mean, you know, I do hypnosis, which everybody knows I do that.

And I'm not hiding it from the audience.

When they first

come here, one of the first things on the contract is saying, you know, that I'm going to try to hypnotize you.

Now, I may not hypnotize everybody, but I'm going to give it my old college try here.

Because if I can do that, then they're like putty in my hands at that point in the game.

And so there is mind control techniques,

but in a fun kind of way, not in fun.

That's what's so crazy about this is you I've seen videos where this woman is just she looks like, and I know it's not, but she looks like she has blood all over her face.

She looks like she's in hysterics, and she's got something in her mouth that's keeping her mouth open, and you're and you're like, okay, it's about to get intense.

And you're like, what?

Are you okay with that?

Are you okay?

You seem like Santa

that is bringing somebody through hell.

Maybe a little bit.

I'm always checking on people.

I'm always stopping the show to ask if they're mentally and physically okay to go on.

And that's what a lot of people don't see.

If you saw that little tidbit, and that's probably a mistake in editing, but who knows?

I'm sure it's out there.

But I'm always trying to make sure that people know and that

the person going through knows that they're safe.

And they have total control.

They can stop the show anytime they want to.

This deal of not having a safe word, that ended several years ago because there was a time, I have to admit, that we didn't offer a safe phrase and they signed up to go as long as we wanted them to go.

So

rather than entertaining.

Wow.

But now but now, yeah, there's absolutely a safe phrase.

So you would be fine, Glenn.

I think you might want to try this just as a

what's the longest anybody's gone since you've had the safe phrase, Russ?

How long is because you say the show can last up to 10 hours, right?

Right, right.

So the way it works is that you have to start the clock.

You have to do an event, grab a key, open a door, do something to start the clock.

Once you start the clock, then your 10-hour meter is on, but nobody has even started the clock yet.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, but that's not to say that.

Wait,

wait, wow.

Wait.

You've buried people with their mouth open.

That's not on the clock.

You have to get to a certain point of being buried.

You have to have a certain depth, so to speak.

And once you get to a certain point, now the clock starts.

Now, I must say, there is one woman who's actually coming back here again in November.

She's been through it nine times.

And she's this solid, upstanding individual, you know, who works in Washington, D.C.

and a big high player, and she just loves the stuff.

But we counted up how much time she spent inside the actual manor, and she's been inside 45 hours of actually doing activities, 45 hours of doing different things.

So

is it Elizabeth Warren?

There's a lot to see in

Elizabeth Warren, Nancy Pelosi.

Yeah.

Have you ever Have you ever had like a Navy SEAL or Delta Force try this?

I have.

You have.

I have.

And they have not made it through, huh?

They have not.

They have not.

And I get a lot of military folks.

In fact, military folks are my favorite because they have their head on a swivel.

They know how to overcome and adapt.

They know how to, you know, they're not knuckleheads.

And this is definitely a non-knucklehead zone.

And, you know, we don't want the crazy ones.

We don't want the ones who are just trying to come here just for the money.

Because if you're coming here for the money, you're going to be really upset when you leave here because you're not going to walk away with anything because the manner is always going to win.

But in a fun way.

It really is fun.

And that's why the testament to that is why people come back time and time again.

No, it doesn't sound fun.

No, it doesn't sound fun.

It just doesn't.

I'm telling you, you've got to try it.

No,

I'm not a candidate for this.

Let me hypnotize you.

All all right hang on just a second we'll continue with russ mccamey from the mccamey manor uh you follow it and find it at mccame manor.com it is wild netflix just

just did the movie uh on it it's it's pretty intense now

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We pause for 10 seconds.

All right.

So, Russ McCamey from

McCamey Manor, you're in Tennessee, a place called Summertown, which I believe the heat miser had to give it to his brother so it could snow there one Christmas.

But you are,

you are,

how does the town react to you?

Oh, they went crazy over me, and they still do.

In a good way or a bad way?

In a bad way.

At least the leadership.

You know, the leadership, when I first got here, they put out a community alert saying, get this guy out of town.

This is where he lives.

Go get him.

You don't want him here.

You go tell him you don't want him here.

Basically, I had a target on my back for quite a while and then and then the townfolk they started kind of coming around to my way they started meeting me and thought this guy's okay yeah he's not like what we thought he was and but but the leadership's a whole different ballgame because they kind of put their neck out there saying we're going to get him out of town no matter what and that hasn't happened so they're still looking for ways to to get me out of town.

Is that what happened to you in San Diego or did you just move?

No, no, no, that's a rumor.

That's a rumor that's a rumor that

probably I started because I like to start a lot of stories.

I love a guy who says I probably started.

Can't confirm nor deny.

Right.

Yeah.

Right.

Okay, so now let me give you some things.

The petition claims that you hire employees with violent histories and you make people ingest pills that cause hallucinations.

Right.

Well, first off, there are no employees because it's just little old roughs.

So you come to the manor, there is nobody here except me against the contestant.

That's it.

My noggin against their noggin.

And their job is just not to let me get in their head.

So

that's not true.

In San Diego, we had some actors, but as far as what their backgrounds were, I have no idea.

Never heard about violent histories or whatever.

So that's a nice little story.

the the pill situation again here's here's where people have to put on their logic caps and I know it's hard to do sometimes for certain folks all those ones who signed that silly petition but if I was really really doing things that were illegal and giving medication to people and torturing people and doing this and that that would be illegal I don't care where you're at that's not allowed so there must be something more to the situation and that's where the hypnosis comes into play because Because if I hypnotize you, like I was saying earlier, I can make you believe whatever I want.

And that's the magic of the manner.

Without giving too much away, just kind of add two and two together and realize that if that, if all this stuff is going on that's in the petition, I wouldn't be here right now.

I'd be locked away in the Bird Cage Theater someplace.

I'd be gone.

The petition says this: you're literally running, literally, I'm quoting, a kidnapping and torture house.

Some people have had to seek professional psychiatric help and medical care for extensive injuries.

Geez.

I know.

Sounds amazing.

It's good PR, but that's about all it is.

But they can write.

It just goes to show you they can write whatever they want.

And what they're doing is they're just taking their own thoughts based upon movies that are five, six, seven years old that I made back in San Diego.

They're not basing anything upon the reality of what it really is.

And in fact, every show, before every show, I call the police.

I let them know what I'm doing.

I volunteer for them to come down and watch the show anytime they want to.

Law enforcement, the district attorney, anybody can come here unannounced anytime they want to with cameras in hand, film everything they want, but no one ever does.

So no one's ever taken me up on my offer to actually see what I do.

Instead, they do things like the petition.

All right.

So

if you wouldn't mind hanging on just a couple of more minutes,

I want to talk to you about

how you design these things,

you know, some of the weirder things that you've had to do to freak people out and get them to not win the 20 grand.

Also, the four-hour waiver process, what that's all about.

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So we have Russ McCamey on.

He is the owner of McCamey Manor, McCameManor.com.

You might have seen an episode on Netflix of Dark Tourist

that is really quite frightening.

And you'll see, you know, you'll see military guys go through and they won't make it an hour with Russ.

And they're tough guys.

It is, it's truly a frightening haunted house, if you will.

He's on with us now.

You know,

waterboarding is considered torture, right?

Right, right, right.

Actual, real waterboarding is torture, correct.

You do a form of waterboarding, though, don't you?

Well, I mean, there is a lot of water at the haunt.

It is a water ride, for sure.

Water ride.

So it's like going to the water park, it's all.

And because water is

a great way to

motivate people.

Now,

we've done waterboarding here at the studio.

Pat and I waterboarded Stew.

Insure.

Yeah, we used Insure, but it was too chocolatey.

He couldn't handle it.

He couldn't handle it.

He thought he could handle it with the chocolate opposed to water, but it was just too chocolatey for him.

We have a guy on staff who is trained in enhanced interrogation techniques.

And he said, A,

that

when I told him you were on this morning, he said, oh, I'd never go because you're never going to win.

You can't.

There's no way to win.

Everyone breaks.

True?

Right.

Yeah.

True, absolutely.

He says he knows because

he will neither confirm nor deny,

but

I know some.

You remember the hairy back guy from

Al-Qaeda that we got years and years ago?

Mohamed?

Yeah.

He was at least around the area when they were talking to that guy.

And I'd like to send him with a bag of dog food just because I'm a good employer

and put him through your course to see how long he lasts.

Sure, we can do that.

All right.

Absolutely.

All right.

Now,

let me ask you this, Russ.

You had really tough guys.

What is the what's the shortest amount of time somebody has lasted

in the manor who was a tough guy or thought he was a a tough guy.

Oh, that's easy.

I'd say half the people quit during the contract, so they don't even get inside the manor.

So these rough and tumble guys, once they read what's coming down the pike for them, they're like, no, I don't think so.

I'm done.

Okay, so

is that part of it?

Is the release form?

Is that part of the psychological workup?

Absolutely.

And that's also where I do all the hypnosis, too, because

I'm not so good that I can hypnotize somebody in five seconds like some people can.

I need several hours with them.

I need to really get inside their noggin.

I need to do all the repetitive words.

I need to do all the things, all the tricks that it takes to hypnotize somebody.

I need that time.

So I'm not so good that I can just click my fingers and you're hypnotized.

So time is important.

Time is on my side.

And

that's why when you first get there in the morning, you're there at, you know, like 10 a.m.

and you're there until sunset.

And then when the sun goes down, the fun begins.

So

this is also wearing people down.

So by the time they hit the manor, you've already worn them out.

Absolutely.

Because we do a lot of physical activities during the daytime.

I call it kind of a mini boot camp.

And

this way it's important.

I need to know what type of physical activities they can do and what they can't do.

So I'll have them hold their breath underwater, you know, in a nice way, not in a violent way, but I'll just say, well, how long can you hold your breath?

Because these are things I need to know because there is breath holding inside, you know, whether it be dirt or whether it be water you're going to deal with.

I need to know these things.

So during the daytime portions, that's when I'm finding out what their limitations are.

And then I'll work around that because the last thing we want to do is have anyone get hurt.

So I really need to know where they stand physically before they roll inside the real show.

What is the most common fear and

what is the fear that you thought, wow,

I'm going to have to work on that one for a minute?

The most common fear is definitely water.

Water is a great equalizer for sure.

And because there's so much of it being used, it's always on you.

You're either cold or, but, you know, if it's hot outside, you're glad the water is on you.

But you're either getting cold or you're just, you're just wet and uncomfortable.

It's not always in your face, but you're always wet.

And it just drains you.

It drains your body after hours and hours of having a big, heavy onesie on because everybody has to wear these crazy onesies, like a bunny rabbit or a cow or something.

You got to be something silly when you're inside the haunt.

It just looks so goofy on film.

But there's also a reason why you do it because it weighs you you down.

You get those big old suits all full of water and it's hard to move.

It's just another means of tiring you out.

Absolutely.

And what is the what have you have you met with anybody that you thought this one's going to be hard to crack or this person's fear is unusual?

I did.

A few weeks ago, we had a war veteran who lost both his legs, a double amputee.

And I thought, how in the world am I going to put this guy through the show?

But he's a really motivated young man who's a rock climber, one of those really athletic guys.

You know, he weighs 170 pounds, solid as a rock, but he's got no legs.

And I thought, should I even do this?

And I thought, you know what?

He's so motivated and it's so inspirational that I was like, I couldn't say no to him.

And this guy just kicked it.

This guy was great.

He did everything we needed him to do.

I didn't need to dumb down the show whatsoever.

Eventually, I think the water and just fatigue is what got to him.

But he held in there just as long as the big rough tough guys with all their extremities.

It was incredible.

I mean, really inspirational.

I've never seen anything like it.

Men break slower than women?

No, no.

Women are much stronger.

Oh, no.

Because

it's mainly psychological, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah, the women have a much, have a much higher tolerance to my little shenanigans than the guys do.

Why is that?

Why is that?

You know,

I just think women are tougher overall, right?

We all have women in our lives, and they're just tough.

Come on, we have to admit, guys, women are tougher than we are.

We know that.

So

for being honest with ourselves, they go through some really amazing ordeals in their life and things that a lot of guys would say, no, I don't think so.

And I think that there's a lot, I think there's something to girls, I've had girls, I've had boys

raising them, girls are mean.

Girls are mean to each other when they're in

their teen years.

They go through some really nasty things.

uh in school years

yeah i agree they're and they're very competitive i mean they're much more competitive than the guys are.

The guys are like, hey, this is fun.

But the women are like, no, this is serious, Russ.

Bring it on.

Bring it on, Russ.

We're doing this right now.

And

do you use animals?

I do.

Lots of spiders and snakes and scorpions and rats and

rats?

A lot of bugs.

A lot of yeah, rats.

But they're field mice.

But field mice, field mice are worse because they're smaller, they're quicker, and they love to get inside your clothes.

Oh, so as you're, you know, and then they stay in there, and so now you're walking, you're walking around the rest of the day with field mice in your little outfit, and they're just you know,

yeah, yeah, that's what I say.

Oh, my God.

Could you make it through, do you think?

Could you make it through your own show?

Yeah, because I because I know how it works.

Yeah, but if I didn't know how it, I didn't know how it worked, then no,

no.

So no one's going to make it through, you know, just be really clear with that.

And that's why when people come here, they need to come here for the right reason because they want to

push themselves and they're coming here just because it's entertainment.

And it really is fun.

And it tested.

No, it doesn't sound fun.

It doesn't.

You know what it sounds fun for, you know, honestly?

If you watch like Mission Impossible and you see, and you know, I don't know, I don't imagine that there are very many people, if any, people like this, where

you know,

he's rock climbing without any rope or anything,

and he gets his thrills doing that because his life is so crazy.

If those people really exist, I could see those people saying, Oh, I want to go through this.

They're out there.

I mean, they fly in from all around the world to take on this little challenge.

It's amazing.

It's not a local thing, but the locals don't go.

The locals have sparked up like, no way, I'm not doing that.

But all these folks that fly in from around the world, you know, across the pond, and it's amazing.

They spend all this money to to get here.

They spend their vacation time to get here.

So

I kind of am hard-pressed.

I have to give them a good show because this means a lot to them.

Do they sell the dog food at the airport?

Because that's what I would do.

I would set up a little dog food stand there at the airport.

Get your dog food here.

Russ,

has there ever been a person you thought was going to make it

that you thought, okay, maybe they can go the distance?

Never?

No.

Wow.

Never.

How many people do you turn away?

Oh my gosh.

I turn away

thousands and thousands because the waiting list is,

I can't even comprehend what it is anymore.

In fact, it's so big right now, we have to go to a lot, a lotto to win a ticket here,

especially since all this craziness.

You know, that's one thing that these petition people don't get.

All they did was just gain more attention to the manor

and made it more popular.

I just hope that nothing crazy does go on because, because, you know, it is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

And this is just a hobby.

It's like saying, you know, Glenn, you like flying remote control airplanes.

Well, you're no longer allowed to do that, Glenn, because we don't like what you're doing.

And it's the same thing.

Nobody is getting hurt.

It's not what the petition says whatsoever.

So it is frustrating because I have people coming out of the woodwork.

You know, this weekend I have an inspector coming out now.

They have to inspect for fire safety now.

And there's no fire safety codes, but they're just doing whatever they can do to kind of harass at this point in point in time.

So it is kind of frustrating.

You only charge dog food for doing this.

This is something that, you know, you're doing it part-time.

Are you really actually a wedding singer as your full-time job?

Well, kind of as a part-time gig, yeah.

Like if you, there's a movie on Netflix called Haunters, the Art of the Scared.

That's a really good movie.

That's a feature documentary, and it

stars me.

And there's also the dark tourist one, but Haunters is a feature film, and it's got me doing the wedding stuff out there.

Yeah,

if you go to djparty.org, you'll see me in all my glory out there entertaining folks and stuff.

So, how scary can I be?

I'm a wedding singer.

Come on now.

It's bizarre.

It's just bizarre.

Russ, it's really good talking to you, and best of luck.

And I'm, you know,

there's there is a part of me that uh says you know i i don't know if we should be doing this but that part of me is the

that big government part that i hate uh i you know as long as everybody is a consenting adult and you're not hurting anybody and and and and they know what's going on I don't see why there's a problem, Pat.

Oh, no.

It's an impersonal freedom thing.

Yeah, it's a freedom thing.

You have the right to do as long as nobody's getting hurt.

I don't know whose business this is, except between you and the person going through it.

Russ, thank you so much.

God bless.

Thank you.

You bet.

Bye-bye.

I think we send Jason.

If he's serious, I think we send Jason in a cameraman.

Is he willing?

Jason!

He's willing.

Absolutely.

He said earlier he wouldn't, but I bet we could convince him to do it.

All right.

You have $57,000 to spare.

How about spending your vacation time from

work in jail?

If these

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And if you do that, it's going to cost you about $57,000.

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Well, now this seems ridiculous.

Well, it ended yesterday.

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You're listening to Glenn Beck.

So we have Jason in with us, our chief researcher.

Jason,

you want to go?

I'll do it because I hate the big government aspect of this as well.

And I want to help him prove that, you know, about this because I know everything involved and what he's going to do.

I know that I won't make it and I'll break it and I'll break.

But I'll do it only if we can send one of our

crew along with it to help him prove this case.

Yeah, okay.

All right, we'll do that.

Now, what do we get if you don't last an hour

besides your eternal shame and humiliation?

How dare you, sir.

How dare you, sir.

Uh, yeah, so let's get him back on the phone, you know, off air and see if we could arrange that.

And we'll send one of our cameramen out with

you.

Uh, because it's not, it's not right, I think.

I mean, this is pursuit of happiness, and you may not like it, and it may make you uncomfortable, but intellectually, emotionally, I could say, oh, yeah, we, you know, that's not right.

But intellectually,

no,

the guy is seemingly a really good, decent human being.

He doesn't allow people to swear around.

So,

yeah, we'll see if he can get that lined up and we'll send you out.

All right.

Yeah.

Merry Christmas.

Bill O'Reilly.

I wonder if he makes people listen to Bill O'Reilly.

Oh, no.

We're going to do the audiobook.

Bill O'Reilly's audio constitutional.

No, I can't take it.

Bill O'Reilly is up next.

This is the Glenbeck program.

Thank you so much.

That is a Do Not Miss podcast.

Do not miss.

All right, Bill O'Reilly's coming up in a second.

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Man, we have a lot to discuss with Bill O'Reilly.

John Bolton is about to testify.

The impeachment was passed yesterday in Congress.

A lot to cover with him.

The fusion of entertainment and enlightenment.

All right, so we have yet another person coming out and saying, and this is a medical examiner, Jeffrey Epstein.

This looks like it was murder, not a suicide.

And Oblasio now has come out and said something doesn't fit, something's not right with Jeffrey Epstein's death.

Also, Adam Schiff on the lack of witnesses who say that Trump committed a crime.

Not just like there's not a lot of them, there's none of them.

None of them are saying he committed a crime.

The Pope says it's an honor to be attacked by American conservatives.

We know who the whistleblower is.

There is just so much to talk to the one and only Bill O'Reilly in 60 seconds.

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Mr.

Bill O'Reilly from BillO'Reilly.com and the author of the new book,

a new book called

The United States of America, According to Trump.

Welcome, Bill O'Reilly.

I want to start with this.

You've done an updated message of the day, which is 10 ways the impeachment process is hurting every single American.

Let's start there.

All right, it's the United States of Trump Beck.

I know it's a complicated thing.

It is.

I didn't read it.

I haven't seen it.

You read it and confer with Pat, and Pat will tell you.

You see, if I were,

I want your listeners to know before we get into the heavy-duty stuff, if I were advertising on Beck, the United States of Trump, paying him money,

he would know the title, and he could tell you the title backward.

Nope.

He'd be sitting in the...

You're the one that still wrote the book.

Wait, you're the one that still wrote the book?

I wrote the United States of Trump right now.

But I mean,

in this scenario where I'm doing advertising, you're paying me to do it, and you are the author of the book.

Yes.

And I am still

the one that you would not boot

in the middle of the book

if you were being paid.

You are wrong, Mr.

O'Reilly.

But

let's get to the 10 things on how the impeachment is actually hurting the average American.

Yes.

There's nothing good about this, number one.

And if you see

other people celebrating impeachment, you need to just pull them aside and say, do you understand

that we all are in this together in this country, that we have to have a functioning federal government trying to solve vexing problems, that we must have a robust economy to support 330 million people, most of whom want to improve themselves?

Do you understand that destroying the office of the presidency, not just the president, but the office of it, is counterproductive to freedom?

Do you understand any of that?

And you'll get silence because this isn't the way impeachment is being presented.

This is awful.

You know, I said earlier this week, Bill, that this impeachment,

all of the so-called evidence that they're presenting on TV is not evidence.

And this is really reminiscent of the glove in O.J.

Simpson's case.

African Americans wanted O.J.

Simpson to be innocent.

So it would be a win for them because of history of blacks getting crushed by the system.

They wanted this guy to beat the system.

And so the glove was, it didn't have really anything to do with the evidence.

They had bloodstains and drops in his car.

They had DNA evidence, everything else.

But the glove gave them permission to say, yep, he's innocent.

And the same thing.

Certainly a jury thought that.

Right.

But the same thing is happening here with this.

This phone call is giving permission to people who want Donald Trump to be out.

It's giving them an easy way of, even though it's not based on any fact, of, yep, we win, he's out.

Sure, that's what it's all about, the destruction of Donald Trump.

And whether it's Russian collusion or impeachment or whatever they'll come up with next, abuse of power, it is a game now.

It's a game.

All right.

So someone's going to have an actual board game, like Monopoly, and then you roll a dice, and then you'll stop on a square, and the square will say, Trump did this.

Okay.

It's ridiculous.

Now, I'm not in the business of defending Donald Trump, even though I wrote a book on him, a fair book.

It's not a pro-Trump book.

But I'm in the business.

By the way, if you're looking for a great book to read, Bill wrote that book called The Country According to the President.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

The Little Red Book by Mao Zingo.

There you go.

So

I'm in the business of trying to improve America.

And I've always been in that business.

And that's why I'm successful.

So whether it's books or commentary or radio, whatever it may be, and I'm seeing this as, number one,

a division in the country now based on hatred of one individual.

Now, there is a system attached to the individual.

I understand that.

But when you've got a guy like Adam Schiff, by the way, I am counting my trick-or-treats.

I went as Adam Schiff last night, and it was not easy getting a shirt three sizes too big.

Not easy.

You're right.

Well, get it.

Yeah, good for you.

I scared every urchin.

Urchins were screaming blood.

That is crazy.

So, did you see the news that we know, we think we know who the whistleblower is now?

I reported last night.

We know.

Yeah.

It's a 33-year-old Yale guy who's a hate Trump guy who worked in the deep state and still is in Langling, Virginia,

who was associated with Biden and with other people and has two best friends working for Adam Schiff.

And so it's a total con.

It's a total con.

We haven't heard anything about him for three weeks.

Yeah.

You know what's interesting.

You know what's interesting, Bill, is

he is connected with with Chalupa, who's a main figure on our chalkboard.

And

we did the chalkboard about a month ago.

I think it was five days later is when they said, yeah, don't worry about that.

We've got another whistleblower.

And as we find out now,

this guy...

Whistleblowers, right?

Yeah, this guy is connected directly to the storyline of our chalkboard.

He is evidence that it's true.

If this were a criminal case, case, it would have been thrown out.

Yeah, easily.

It would have been thrown out.

Everything's gone because the original complaint is a fraud.

So it's gone.

What does it say to you that yesterday, not a single Republican voted for this?

Big time for a win for Trump.

And the reason is that there are senators like Romney and Murkowski who hate Trump, hate him, and would vote to remove.

Now they can't.

Because if they do, they'll be blackballed by their own party.

Nothing would make me happier.

Yeah, okay.

I mean, look, politics is politics.

But I was surprised.

I thought there would be a couple of Republican congressmen to vote for the inquiry.

Remember, this was a vote to continue the inquiry, to continue compiling evidence of a possible misdemeanor and high crime.

Not one person,

not one witness has said that it is a crime.

Not one.

So that has emboldened Donald Trump.

So let me give you some insight in, folks, because you know, I know him pretty well.

I'm very good sources.

So there was a big meeting after the vote in the White House.

And, well, I shouldn't say big because there aren't a lot of advisors in there.

Anyone who doesn't trust Mulvaney.

Mulvaney is going to be gone in, you know, a matter of very short time.

Mulvaney's out.

So there's a meeting about five or six people he trusts.

And they basically sat around and they said, look,

now let's let this go forward because we have Nunez.

And this is a big key that every American should know.

Nunez is stronger than Schiff.

So Nunez is the minority guy on the House Intel Committee.

Devin Nunez from California.

He's stronger than Schiff.

So it's him and Schiff that will direct the questioning, Nunez and Schiff.

And then in the summaries and the leaking to the press, it's Nunez and Schiff.

Nunez will be on Fox News every second of every day.

And so they believe that Nunez is going to kick Schiff's butt all over the place.

And this is going to directly lead to the reelection of Donald Trump.

So they're happy.

This is the first time that the President's been relieved.

I mean, last time we talked, last week, I said I was worried about him personally

because it was taking its emotional toll on him.

Now he's almost buoyant in the sense that he believes this whole thing has turned after yesterday's vote.

I would agree.

I think this week was a turning point in this,

and I think it's going to get worse and worse for the Democrats.

With one exception,

what do you think is going to happen with John Bolton?

Very interesting.

Yeah,

they keep holding him out like, oh,

he's going to be the death knell for O'Reilly.

No,

I don't know the ambassador that well.

I never used him on the O'Reilly factor, not once.

And the reason I didn't use him,

very smart guy.

Very smart.

Was because

I knew what he was going to say.

I knew it.

I mean,

it was never a surprise, never a nuance.

Yeah, but

he was not a guy who was parroting a lot of other people.

He had

hard right view of foreign policy.

Correct.

All right.

And

I didn't use any hard left people either.

I never did.

So here's the dilemma for John Bolton.

Bolton, you can't assume that he has any regard for Donald Trump.

We can't assume that.

I mean, he doesn't like him because it didn't end well in the White House for him.

But if he goes in and crushes Trump, and he could,

he could, he's dangerous,

in the sense that he knows a lot of things,

he will alienate himself from his entire ideological structure.

He will be a pariah in this country.

I think he's on that road already.

But he knows that.

There's not going to be anywhere for him to speak, speaking engagements.

No book audience for him, no comeback on Fox News, none of that.

So he cuts himself off.

Now, the Trump administration has anticipated the worst.

They don't know, nobody knows what Bolton is going to say.

So

the counter to Bolton is Pompeo.

And you saw that this week as well, where Pompeo came out and said, look, I was on the call.

And we didn't deviate out from what our policy for the Trump administration is.

So they'll put Pompeo up against Bolton.

And Pompeo is strong.

Remember, ex-CIA chief.

All right.

He's strong.

Does this boil down, Bill, really to

an extreme disagreement in the policy of the State Department and the State Department just saying, we don't work for Donald Trump, even though they do.

We don't work for Donald Trump and Donald Trump's not going to get involved.

And the State Department engaging in some really nasty stuff over in the Ukraine.

Well, the State Department now is very sympathetic with President Trump.

I mean, because Pompeo is a Secretary of State.

They're buds.

Yeah, no.

Yeah,

I mean those long-term players, for instance, that.

They don't have any access other than

leaking whatever.

There are two people that Donald Trump deals with every day: Vice President Pence and Pompeo.

Those are the only two.

And they're both very loyal to him.

And as long as they stay there, as long as he has them, he can use them to go out and negate a bullet.

Now, as for your question about the State Department and the Justice Department and everybody else, they all hate Trump.

They've hated him from day one.

All right?

And that's why you saw the whistleblower.

Yes.

This guy was working to undermine Trump from the very beginning.

Oh, he's the guy who said that

Putin and Trump,

you know, Putin told Donald Trump to fire Comey.

He's the guy who started all of that.

This guy is an activist.

He's an activist.

Very bad.

Very bad.

But

Schiff is in trouble because he went to Schiff, because his two best friends work for Schiff.

I mean, it's really bad.

Okay, more with Bill O'Reilly, the author of Me Write Book About President Guy.

Showing up in just a second.

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We break for 10 seconds, station ID.

It's the Glenbeck program with Pat Gray sitting in for Mr.

Stubergeer, who is out in Disneyland.

I want to see Star Wars.

I want to see Star Wars.

So he's out.

Welcome, Bill.

How are you?

I'm the same, and I wish I were with Stu.

And Stu may never come back.

Yeah.

Hey, can I just quickly get your thoughts on Congress

going up and finally making a statement about the Armenian genocide?

Except for a couple of people, including Elon Omar, who said, I can't comment on this when we're dealing with what Americans did to Native Americans and the slave trade.

What are your thoughts on this?

Well, I have to confess, I don't know much about the Armenian slaughter,

so I can't really bring anything

due to the discussion, but I can tell you that, you know, the radical left in America is the conservative movement's best friend because these people are so loopy,

so insane, that even

the

people who don't subscribe to information, like they say, I don't want any information.

I don't want to know anything.

I'll never watch or read any news.

Even they go, you know, these people are stupid.

Did you catch Barack Obama criticizing the woke movement?

Oh, I couldn't take it.

Did you catch that?

I couldn't take it.

You know, I'm telling you, you're too tough on Obama.

Obama, there's something about him, and I know him pretty well, that can't stand this phony garbage.

And I'm glad he did what he did yesterday.

I am too, but he's the guy who started it.

Oh, I don't believe that for a second.

Oh, come on.

He wasn't involved with the cultural woke movement.

He wasn't doing that.

He wasn't doing that.

His whole shtick, Beck, was wholly.

His whole shtick was...

His whole shtick was, you know, that's the way white people will do you.

His whole shtick was, well, the police act stupidly.

That's not what woke is.

No, that's

that you're not allowed to say anything.

You're not allowed to offend anyone.

You got to have 15 bathrooms

for different ethnicities.

I mean, that's what woke is.

Obama is a,

I think he's a socialist guy.

I think he is, but if he isn't, he's very close.

That was his whole thing.

That was it.

Get money to the people who don't have any.

And that's why the economy tanked.

Man, I just don't understand.

No, I'm just thinking.

I just.

He wasn't a cultural left-wing.

That's all he was.

No, no.

His wife on the campaign.

That's not him.

That's not him.

Michelle, all right.

I'll give you Michelle.

Everything's about race.

I got it.

But for him, it wasn't quite that way.

He did have Michelle Obama on the campaign trail

because Barack knows.

Barack knows.

Listen to this.

This is when she was taken off of the campaign trail.

Listen.

And Barack knows that we are going to have to make sacrifices.

We are going to have to change our conversation.

We're going to have to change our traditions, our history.

We're going to have to move into a different place.

That's what wokeness is.

It's talking about our history and our traditions.

In the context of race.

Well, I'm trying to figure out

what we're going through right now because I know it wasn't happening that way

a few years ago

before he got in.

It wasn't this diametrically opposed on race and everything else

and history.

Can you turn your computer off?

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We're joined by Secretary Hillary Rodham Clinton and Chelsea Clinton, who co-wrote the book of Gutsy Women.

Hillary, I have to ask you a question that has been plaguing me for a while.

How did you kill Jeffrey Epstein?

Because

you're not in power,

but you have all the power.

I really need to understand how you do what you do.

Because you seem to be behind everything nefarious, and yet you do not use it to become president.

What is the game plan?

Well, Trevor.

But honestly, though, what does it feel like being the boogeyman of the rights?

Well,

it's a constant surprise to me

because the things they say, and now of course it's on steroids with being online, are so ridiculous beyond any imagination that I could have.

And yet they are so persistent in putting forth these crazy ideas and theories.

Honestly, I don't know what I ever did to get them so upset.

oh my gosh just like stop we could we could we could clear clarify that for her if she wanted uh bill the likelihood that hillary clinton did off jeffrey epstein with her own hands

uh

the likelihood of that yeah yeah yeah

1%

okay okay I forgot we were on the air okay

so wait a minute I do want to ask you a serious question on this

Dr.

Michael Baden

said that it's more likely that he died of a homicide than a suicide.

He's not the first to say, but he's the one who examined now.

The New York chief medical examiner said it was definitely suicide.

But this guy says, and he's respected, no, there's three bones in there that are usually not broken by hanging yourself.

It's very common with homicide.

Look, I'm not a doctor.

I know this guy likes publicity.

I don't believe a word of it.

I know people in the Bureau of Prisons.

It's inconceivable that this would happen, but you know, people like batting that stuff around.

You're no fun.

Yeah, I'm not a lot of fun.

I'll tell you that.

But here's an astute observation from me:

Who has more in common with Donald Trump than any other politician in the country?

Hillary Clinton.

Because they're both maligned to the point of caricature.

And

Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, and remember,

remember, I sat behind Hillary and Bill Clinton at Marla Maples Donald Trump's wedding.

I sat behind them.

All right?

And they couldn't have been more buddy-buddy.

And this is in the United States of Trump, the book you so love.

It's in there.

And now,

if there's one soulmate in the political arena for Donald Trump, it's her.

Isn't that ironic?

It is.

And

it is a good part of the book: You, Me, the President, and a Dog Named Boo

by Bill O'Reilly.

Bill,

let me ask you this.

I saw a story.

I have never seen any

religious person say anything like this before.

Pope Francis, quote, it's an honor to be attacked by American conservatives.

I didn't see that.

Can you give me the context of it?

He said on Wednesday, it was an honor to be attacked by the U.S.

Church conservatives and their Catholic media allies who have criticized him on issues from theology to climate change and even called for his resignation.

Yeah.

Well, there's a movie coming out about the two popes, I think the name of it is.

It'll be out before Christmas.

And Anthony Hopkins plays one of the popes, and somebody famous plays the other.

And it's about the handoff from Pope Benedict, a conservative German pope, to

Pope Francis, a liberal Argentinian.

I like Pope Francis.

I watched him up close,

and

he

is a good man but he is a very liberal theologian very liberal and that makes conservative Catholics crazy crazy

and so I understand the ire toward Pope Francis but as a Catholic I think Pope Francis is a good man

even though I don't just I don't agree with his liberal theology in the sense that

we have to have borders, we have to have

the question: is the Pope Catholic?

And not everybody could answer that question.

Yeah, he's Catholic.

He's just

he said that Jesus, if you believe in the Trinity, he said Jesus wasn't God for

while he was here on earth for 33 years.

Now, if you believe in the Trinity,

did we not have God for 33 years?

Where did God go?

Hiatus.

Okay.

Look, all of this is out of context.

It's like the New Testament.

Most of the New Testament is a parable.

He's not

saying

this.

And this is what Francis does.

So, look, I don't want to get into Catholic theology, but there's a difference between what the Pope does and what the religion is.

All right.

We have had popes throughout history that have been so corrupt.

They had 18 wives.

I mean, just look at them.

Started wars, looted countries.

I mean, there's a theology, and the theology, I believe, is very, very strong.

But then there's an institution, and the institution is not.

All right.

Let me, you and I, boy,

I mean, we're shaking apart here.

We're shaking apart.

Our friendship friendship is shaking apart here.

No, bad.

Oh, no.

No, it's great.

You're a Christian man.

You have to forgive me.

Okay, so, Bill, last one, Elizabeth Warren.

Oh, I love her, don't you?

Oh, she's great.

She's great.

You know what?

I think I've uncovered a videotape of Elizabeth Warren on American Bandspen.

It looks just like her.

Dick Clark is interviewing her about the dog named Buu Song that you're really really

came out and said,

what is it, 56 or 54?

52.

53.

53 million.

Trillion.

Yeah, but

trillion.

What difference does it make?

Yeah, that's right.

It really doesn't matter.

So, but what people don't know is Bernie and

Elizabeth to pay for Medicare for all are willing to sell California to China.

And that's

too late.

That's already been done.

They sold the coastlines too late.

But they're so simpatico now that it's not even, you know,

just come in, pay the 50 trillion for it, and everybody's happy.

Okay, so today, as they stand today, who's going to be the nominee?

Biden.

Still really?

If Biden, okay, if they can wake him up, all right, he sleeps late,

he'll get it because they know the socialists are going to lose, they being the power brokers within the Democratic Party.

So I don't understand.

They know this,

but yet they are standing on it.

They're doing everything.

They're standing on it every day.

They don't reject it.

They embrace it until they have to actually get Americans to vote.

What is their strategy?

Here's the strategy.

They believe by pandering to these far, far left people, these socialist people, they're getting younger people engaged than the Democratic Party.

That's number one.

All the younger people want to be socialists, don't want to work, just want to get everything handed to them.

They're going to be committed Democrats.

They also believe, and this is a mistake, that minorities like this.

They don't.

I don't believe that Hispanic Americans and African Americans are socialists.

Younger Americans, yes, I do believe that.

Absolutely.

So, and also the media love socialism.

They love it.

Until socialism comes to their door, then they don't like it so much.

And so the Democratic Party, they're playing this game.

They're going, okay, we can recruit using this stuff.

We can do this.

But then when it comes crunch time at the convention, they're going to wheel out Joe, and I think literally wheel him out.

All right?

And he'll be waving one hand.

He can't do two at once.

And he'll be there with that big grin.

And Hunter will be Secretary of State.

It's going to work out.

It's going to be great.

It's going to work out.

All right.

Go ahead and plug the

pamphlets.

United States of Trump and Gangbusters.

I actually am running commercials where Glenn Beck says it's the greatest book that he's ever read with the exception of

Celebrity Voice Impersonated.

Yes.

And billo Reilly.com.

We're opening it up for everybody this weekend, so you don't have to pay to see my impeachment coverage yesterday, which I think was one of the best things I've ever done.

Wow.

So go to billorilly.com.

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You know, don't waste your time this weekend on foolish football.

Get knowledge.

All right.

Bill O'Reilly, thank you so much.

Free weekend at Bill O'Reilly.

Good talking to him.

Have a good week.

Weekend.

All right.

Conventional wisdom says that you should either sell or buy a house in the spring or summer, but that actually is not true anymore.

You know,

it's great to take care of the outside stuff.

The kids are out of school, blah, blah, blah.

But there's a lot more that goes into buying and selling a home.

And the truth of the matter is some of the best times to buy and sell in homes are not when people traditionally think.

We have changed as a nation.

Surprisingly, January is the best best time to buy a home because the prices tend to be lower, and November is the best time to sell a home because there are usually fewer homes on the market, which of course means that someone is more apt to see your home.

And why is this?

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Go to realestate agentsitrust.com.

That's realestate agentsitrust.com.

This is the Glenbeck program.

There's a couple of things I want to play some audio.

Here is Adam Schiff

in audio.

How he feels about impeaching Donald Trump.

Just listen to this.

We take no joy in having to move down this road and proceed with the impeachment inquiry,

but neither do we shrink from it.

Yeah, I don't think anybody believes that.

I don't think your wife, your mother, no one believes that way.

No way.

Here is a state lawmaker talking about miscarriage.

This is Representative Wendy Ullman of Pennsylvania.

Listen to this.

It refers specifically to the product of conception after fertilization, which covers an awful lot of territory.

I think we all understand the concept of the loss of a fetus, but we're also talking about a woman who comes into

a facility and is having cramps and the

not to be

not to be

concrete.

An early miscarriage is just some mess on a napkin.

and I'm not sure people would agree that this is something that we want to take to the point of ritual

either cremation or internment

oh wow wow is that despicable evil miscarriage

is just a mess on a napkin I cannot believe that a woman said that.

I know.

That is

that's a woman who obviously doesn't know any other women that have had miscarriages.

Right.

I mean, sounds like a woman who's never been pregnant.

Oh, my gosh.

To say that, yeah, you lost a fetus.

No, no, I didn't lose a fetus.

Lost a baby that was growing in the womb.

Wow, that's pretty despicable.

But that's how far they've come.

I know.

I can't imagine that woman being re-elected.

But then, again, today, maybe.

Maybe.

Maybe

Yeah, maybe people don't feel this way anymore.

I don't have any idea.

One last.

Do we have a minute 30 here that we could play the

judicial pick of Lawrence Van Dyke in the Senate hearing

when one of the senators is questioning him about his political letter from the American Bar Association that accuses him of ineptitude and also discrimination against LGBT?

Listen.

Did you say that you wouldn't be fair to members of the LGBT community?

Senator,

that was the part of the letter.

I did not say that.

Look at what look at what people are doing to people.

I apologize.

I'm sorry.

No, I did not say that.

I do not believe that.

It is a fundamental belief of mine that all people are created in the image of God

and they should all be treated with dignity

and respect.

Senator.

Can you commit today to this committee that you will treat, if confirmed, that you would treat every litigant who came before you with respect and with dignity?

Absolutely, Senator.

I would not have allowed myself to be nominated for this position if I did not think I could do that.

Including members of the LGBT community and any other community that has been historically disadvantaged in this country?

Absolutely, Senator.

Wow.

What an insulting question.

And this is just coming because of politics.

Look at what we are

doing to people.

How are you ever going to get anyone decent

to go through

this process

to be able to lead us?

How are you ever going to do it?

It's got to stop.

You're listening to Glenn Beck.

Thank you so much, Hillary.

I want to talk to you about real estate agents that you trust or

dot-com?

Yes, real estate agents I trust.com.

Okay.

All right, because if it's the ones you don't trust,

I can't recommend them.

Really?

Yeah, can't recommend them.

I don't know.

I've been thinking about, you know, they've been asking me this group of real estate agents, hey, Glenn, we know you got the ones that you trust.

How about real estate agents you don't trust?

And I said, what will you do for people?

And they say, we'll screw up your paperwork.

We won't sell your house.

We'll just have open houses every weekend.

So you keep your house immaculate.

And then we'll call when there's somebody that wants a showing.

We'll call like 20 minutes before.

Perfect.

But it'll be on like a Saturday night.

Yeah.

And then we won't call you and tell you what the people said.

We'll just string you along.

That's realestateagents I don't trust.com.

But the real estate agents I do trust.com do the opposite of that.

Oh, wow.

And that's why I trust them.

And you can too.

Just let us know.

If you're trying to buy or sell a house, we'll find the right real estate agent in your area.

It's realestate agents I trust.com.

Thank you for that, Pat.

Yeah, I'm happy to help.

No, no, no.

You are a helper.

Just wanted to clarify.

You are a helper.

You are a helper.

By the way, daylight savings time this weekend fall back this time 25 hours.

You fall back 25 hours.

The fusion of entertainment and enlightenment.

I was just telling Pat, and he said a lot of people don't know that that daylight savings time is happening uh this year this weekend uh-huh usually you just fall back an hour right uh this time 25 hours you fall a day and an hour back wow so you get a whole day and one more hour one more hour wow yeah so it's a special year set your calendar back uh it's daylight savings time uh weekend all right i want to talk to you about what we're doing as a society because it ain't working

Nobody's convincing anything to anybody.

Nobody is changing the hearts and minds of anybody.

Maybe we should change tactics.

There's somebody who really truly understands this and lived it,

got kind of in reverse, was taught.

It was probably, you know, probably one of the bigger problems in our country at one point and had a change of heart, saw the the light.

How do we change tactics and actually move forward?

That in one minute?

This is the Glenbag program.

Oh, Pat.

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All right, when you say

at least 15 years ago,

hey, can you name a really horrible, divisive group?

You could probably say, yeah, Westboro Baptist Church.

Oh, yeah.

But now we are all kind of

turning into that.

We see that everywhere now.

We see people screaming these things at each other.

America has become an online version in many cases of the Westboro Baptist Church, not necessarily screaming the same things, but being just as vile and mean and

awful.

Well, Megan Phelps,

she's a writer and an activist and a former member of the Phelps family, member of the Westboro Baptist Church, and she joins us now.

She has a new book called Unfollow.

Welcome, Megan.

How are you?

I am wonderful.

What about you?

I'm good.

Good to have you on the program again.

First of all, can I ask you,

you kept the name Phelps, your Megan Phelps Roper.

And Phelps is one of those words, you know, like we say, your name is Mudd around here.

That's because the guy who is helping John Wilkes Booth, his name was Mudd.

The doctor was mud.

Phelps is kind of one of those names.

Why'd you keep it?

I kept it because I wanted to reform it.

You know, my name,

Megan Phelps Roper, for a very long time, it meant, as my family would say, God hates bags.

And I didn't want it to mean that anymore.

I wanted to change.

I wanted to take it back.

And, you know,

my husband recently, we've been talking about, you know, we want to start a nonprofit at some point.

And he had the idea of calling it the Westboro Foundation.

Because I want people when they hear Westboro to not think of people who celebrate tragedies and deaths, but people who are there when tragedies happen to help people who are suffering.

I mean, in some ways, it's what Chip and Joanna did for Waco, Texas, but it was ⁇ I mean,

that wasn't personally them.

And you have a ⁇ I mean,

you were there on the front lines.

Tell the audience, I know who you were, but tell the audience who you were and how you changed.

So Westboro Baptist Church was started by my grandfather, and it's almost entirely my extended family.

So my mother was the de facto spokesperson for a very long time and I was right there.

I grew up right at her elbow.

I'm the third of 11 children.

I'm her oldest daughter.

So she called me her right hand and I was right there in the middle of it.

I was a hardcore believer, a zealous believer in everything that Westboro taught and I defended them in the media.

I was the one who took our message to social media initially

and helped with all of the logistical work, orchestrating the protests.

So

I was not, as I put it, I said I was all in.

That's how I felt.

And then the...

Before you change, before you talk about how you changed,

was there ever any discussion like,

hey, guys, I don't think this is working.

This approach is not working.

Was there ever any discussion like that?

No, because for Westboro, you know, they do not use conversion numbers as a metric of their success.

They don't believe that, you know, changing hearts and minds is in their power because they believe in predestination.

So only God can change someone's heart.

And so we basically saw our, you know, we measured our success as the amount of publicity that we were getting because all we were trying to do was publish this message that we thought was the word of God.

So

from that perspective, we were very successful.

We were all, I mean, you know, pop culture phenomenons, you know, True Blood, that, you know, really popular series on HBO, the opening credits included, you know, God Hates Fangs, you know,

which is part of our, you know, just a play on our God Hates Gays message.

But so it, it's, you know, for them, they just, that's, they weren't trying to change people's minds.

And that's why

to change the idea of changing tactics didn't even occur to them.

And when people would insist that they should, that it was biblical for them to change tactics, for us to change tactics,

we basically just dismiss them out of hand.

So

Megan,

when you

are away from this now and your eyes have been opened and you

know what you are part of and your family is part of, and you know

what's true and what's not.

How difficult is it for you to look at our society today and to see what people are doing online, on air, everything,

and not just cry out, you fools, what are you doing?

Well, I can't say you fools because I was exactly where so many people are now.

I know how seductive that way of seeing things is.

the appeal of absolute certainty.

You know,

my grandfather used to say that it was there's was something wonderfully liberating in the idea, in the notion, the knowledge that you are 100% right.

And he believed that.

He believed that we were 100% right with no possibility of error because we, again, we had the Word of God.

And so when I see this, you know, this spirit, kind of, the same spirit taking over, you know, the Westboroization of politics and American culture generally,

I know why people are drawn to it, and I understand the group dynamics that lead people to it, but I also know how incredibly destructive it is to see the world that way, and how ineffective it is to try to change hearts and minds to

come to collective to compromise, how difficult that is to do when you have completely demonized anyone who doesn't agree with you on everything, anyone who steps outside of the party line

on any notion.

It's not good.

It's interesting because I wrote in one of my books, I think it was my last one, where I said the only thing I am now certain of is that I am not certain of anything.

It is our certainty that is dividing us.

And

it feels different than what you went through because

you see and you claim what's happening over here is evil.

And I know the difference between good and evil and

this is just this movement is evil but that's what you guys thought

yeah and that's the thing it's if you are only looking at things from your perspective you know you're you're you are looking at at

current events in light of your your own experiences and if you cut yourself off from trying to understand why other people have come to different conclusions if you just attribute it to you know this person is evil they are ill-intentioned,

you are immediately cutting yourself off from really understanding that person and what has led them to those conclusions.

Right.

And it doesn't mean that you are going to change your point of view or

that you're not necessarily on the right track, but you don't understand that you are limiting

yourself by not listening to how other people got there or viewed it because they are going to teach you something.

And if you close yourself off to that, you end up alone, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

And

there is this instinct that I think is very human.

When we encounter people that we believe are doing and believing destructive things, the instinct that we have is to isolate ourselves from them.

We don't want to endorse them.

We don't want to have any part with what they're involved in.

And again, I think that's a very human response.

You're trying to shame them into changing.

The problem is that when the divide is as great as it is now in so many different spheres, you know, I was talking to an anthropologist last year, and she explained the feeling of shame as the feeling that we get when we know that we have violated the norms of our community.

And so, you know, for me, Westboro was my community, and I didn't have any community outside of that.

I felt completely alienated from the rest of the world.

It was this very us-them mentality.

And so when other people, outsiders, attempted to shame me, I felt pride.

I was happy that they thought I was wrong because I thought they were evil.

So clearly, it just reinforces your sense of righteousness.

What's the difference between this and moral relativity?

I think

I don't believe that you have to

have no opinions about things.

I don't think that you have to say, well, I can't.

When you said certainty is the root of this, for me,

I totally agree.

This toxic sense of certainty in your own righteousness.

It's not that you don't have opinions or that you don't have strong values and strong beliefs.

It's that you hold them a bit more loosely because you understand that there is information and experiences outside of your own, which are necessarily limited,

that can and should change the way you see things.

We have to be willing to listen because, not because we are trying to say that, okay, white supremacy is okay or

whatever the specific issue is.

It's that

what is in this that I can learn from?

And how can we build a bridge from where they are to where I am?

So show us how

we need to change our behavior.

You know, your book is called Unfollow,

and you're not necessarily saying disengage from social media

because, at least I don't think, because

that's what changed you was somebody using social media in the right way.

So what's the right way to approach this?

Or another way?

Yeah, so

I gave a TED talk a couple of years ago about this.

This was, I think, the last time I was on.

It was basically detailing these strategies that

people used with me.

So the first was to don't assume bad intent because, again, you need to understand what is actually motivating this person.

I think very few people are actually deliberately trying to do things that they know are evil or wrong.

They have somehow become convinced that this is the right way.

And so you need to understand where they're coming from if you're going to actually reach them.

The second is to ask questions, partly, again, to help you understand where they are, where they're coming from, but also partly as a signal to them that they're being heard.

And so, you know, there's this reciprocal thing that happens where, you know, somebody, you ask them questions and they go through their whole position, they explain it all to you, and then they get to the end and there's this natural sense of reciprocation often where they want to know what you think.

Where are you coming from?

And how is it?

It's not asking questions.

It's asking honest questions.

It's asking questions of, I want to know, not questions that will get them to change their mind.

Because I'm going to have a, I know the answer to this one.

Right, yes.

Okay.

And then the third is to stay calm, which is, you know, as you see in conversations on social media, on television, all over the place, it's really difficult, it seems like, right now, to be able to stay calm in these discussions because

these are conversations about deeply held values and disagreements that we cannot fathom how somebody has come to a different place.

And so if we can be very intentional and deliberate about keeping...

you know, keeping the hostility level as low as possible, trying to acknowledge that the other person is coming from a place of genuine disagreement and to be able to tolerate that.

Like this is, you know, embodying the value of tolerance, I think it's really important.

So that's the third step.

And then the fourth is to make your argument.

You know, and again, this is one of those things that sounds very obvious, but when we have these deeply held values, there is this, you know, this sense that anybody that is a decent person would have already come to the same conclusions that I have.

And so we end up not actually articulating the defenses and the arguments for our position.

So we actually need to do that.

And then, you know, I think I mentioned this last time too, the fifth point that I would say

that was not in my TED Talk because I ran out of time, but it would be to be patient because people don't change these kinds of deeply held values overnight, like in a moment.

Even though I can look back in my own experience to how my mind changed over time, I can point to several moments where I absolutely became aware that there was a contradiction in what I believed.

And what it caused me to do was kind of to shut down momentarily, right?

And that's what happens to human beings as we, you know, this cognitive dissonance, like to finally come to the place where we understand, wow, maybe there is something wrong with my position.

Maybe I need to reconsider this.

And if you push that, you know, if you try to use that as a gotcha moment, that's people react very negatively to that.

It tends to push us exactly.

It pushes you deeper into your position.

Megan, I think you're a remarkable, remarkable woman.

And your message is so powerful and right on the money and right for this time.

I urge everybody in the audience to read this and share this with people.

What she lays out is, look, what we're doing isn't working.

We have to change tactics.

And I think she has a remarkable message.

The name of the book is Unfollow, Megan Phelps Roper.

Unfollow.

It's available wherever you buy books currently.

Thank you so much, Megan.

God bless.

Thank you, thank you.

You bet.

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Station ID.

All right.

Welcome to the program.

David Malor

is a guy who you've never really heard of,

most likely, but you know his work.

And I have a podcast with him this weekend that I so strongly urge you to look into.

We'll talk about it here in just a second.

So, Pat, looking at the list of the things that she

just

put down,

let's just look at this with impeachment.

Why are people going after, why is the DNC, besides politics, why is the DNC pushing this and why is this working with

Democrats?

I think it's hatred.

I think they just absolutely hate Donald Trump.

I think if you phrase it the way she just did, they assume bad intent.

You just assume bad intent.

And have they done that from the start with Frank?

From the very start.

From the very start.

They're not listening to,

well, what are the questions?

Wait,

what are we really talking about here?

Let's listen and ask him questions on

what are you doing?

Or you can't really ask him, but see, like, for instance, the chalkboard and open your eyes to a different perspective.

Stay calm

and yet make your stand and make your argument.

We are violating all of these as a society every single day.

And when is it that the group of us are all going to wake up and go, hmm, maybe we should try something different?

You notice that, and I meant to ask her before she left, if her family is still doing this, because you'd never hear about them anymore.

The Westboro Baptist Church, because everybody's like the Westboro Baptist Church now.

Every time you see a protest,

it's like those people.

And so it's not even uncommon.

They're not even, I don't think they even raise any interest in the media anymore because we see that every weekend, everywhere.

It's amazing.

Especially, you're right.

I wish I would have asked that question of her because especially if they are still active,

you don't ever hear about it.

Never.

Not for you.

And I hear you're right.

It is, we've all become.

Yeah.

We're all that.

In one way or another, we're all calling each other horrible names, especially in the virtual world.

All right, back in a minute.

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I've got to stop.

And so she started working out, and now she's thin and beautiful.

And hopefully, the authorities are.

Is there

in jail?

I was going to say, hopefully, the authorities have put that kid away.

Because if he's fat-shaming.

If he ever fat-shames again,

you can't have that.

Yeah.

You can't have it.

Fireside chat on live television.

Trump says he wants to read the Ukraine cult transcript to the American people.

Now, it's interesting because this is what I said

after we did the chalkboard about a month ago.

I said, president should do a fireside chat

he should now i also added

he needs to really be prepared for that and he needs to just take people through it and i think i also then said he's probably not the guy to do it because i don't know if he's that disciplined but

we'll we'll see is there uh was there a date attached to that he hasn't he just said he wants to do it uh sometime soon uh at some point i'm I'm going to sit down, perhaps as a fireside chat on live television, and I'll read the transcript of the call because people have to hear it.

When you read it, it's a straight call.

It's a perfect call.

I love the perfect call thing.

All right.

A Brooklyn pimp named Sugar Bear.

Wow.

Is that the Sugar Bear?

that saved my life tonight with Elton John?

No.

Uh-uh.

Okay, this is a different Sugar Bear.

Different sugar bear.

This sugar bear is a Brooklyn pimp that's on trial for killing his prostitute girlfriend, but he said, I didn't kill her.

I just chopped her up and put her head in my freezer.

For what reason?

He didn't want to be blamed.

Oh, well, that makes sense.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

this is another sugar bear.

This is one that didn't save her life, but didn't kill her either.

No.

He didn't kill her.

He just chopped her up.

This one chopped up my life.

My life tonight.

tonight.

Sure.

Sure.

Well, okay, so if somebody finds your girlfriend's head in your freezer, they're certainly not going to suspect that you killed her, right?

No.

They just.

Well, why did you, but you chopped her up.

You just wanted to stash her there.

I wanted to keep her.

Close.

I wanted to keep her close.

And,

you know,

I'm in the freezer for ice cream a lot.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

It really makes sense.

So

Julie Clark told the Brooklyn jury he didn't want to go to jail.

He didn't want to be blamed.

He had no motive to kill his main moneymaker, but he did cut her body up.

She then conceded, this is the attorney, she then conceded, look, he's not a nice man.

He's not someone you want with your daughter.

But you don't have to like his lifestyle.

That's very true.

I don't want him dating my daughters.

That's very, very true.

Yeah.

Police closed in on Moses after finding the body parts at a Bronx waste transfer station, tracing them to his apartment where they alleged were found blood splatters

and

frozen appendages.

They were found under a pile of frozen foods and meats

in his freezer.

He was charged with concealing the body parts for 10 days after the slaying.

But again, he said, hey,

I only chopped her up.

I didn't kill her.

Does he have any ideas on who did kill her?

O.J.

Simpson.

Okay.

O.J.

Simpson.

But O.J.

swears he was on the golf course.

This weekend,

something that the farmers always get blamed for.

Not true.

It was actually

to be more environmentally friendly and not burn as much coal.

It's daylight savings time this weekend.

Finally.

They pushed that back.

Has it been, what, a month or six weeks?

I think it's a month on both ends, right?

Isn't that what they did?

I don't, I'm not, I haven't.

I'm not following the.

You're not following the

saga of the daylight savings time?

And it's actually, we're both saying it wrong.

It's daylight savings time.

Savings Yes.

There's no S in savings.

Leave the S off.

For savings.

For savings.

Savings.

Savings.

I hate daylight saving time.

I want it to go away completely.

I just want to be on standard time the whole year.

I think it's time.

Okay.

No, I disagree with you.

I like it this one weekend.

I hate it in the spring.

Very much so.

But I don't know why we don't just fall back in the spring and the summer just keep falling back an hour both times yeah an hour both time just fall back an hour or if you you know you're like well then the days would be screwed up okay then fall back a few fall back 24 hours or 23 hours in the spring

then we all win

We're always getting extra time that way.

I'm not sure it works like that.

Well, I don't don't know why it doesn't.

We can make it.

We can make it so.

If we can have health care for all, we can certainly fall back 23 hours.

Oh, yeah.

Absolutely.

Let me take you here.

Tomorrow,

I have a podcast that comes out every Saturday.

We have a really fascinating podcast.

This is one of my favorite stories.

This is the story

about a man who has had

an incredible life.

He grew up wanting to be a pitcher for the Boston Red Sox,

and that's all he wanted to do.

And he worked so hard his whole life and he got a scholarship to go to college.

He just graduates from high school.

And he has a scholarship to

go to school.

And he's going to be on the baseball team.

And he's a pitcher, and he's a good one.

And he's walking in a parking lot one night, and he realizes I've left my wallet in the car, and they were headed towards McDonald's.

I've got to go back out in the parking lot and get my wallet.

You stay here.

I'll be right back.

Listen to how he describes the day that changed his life.

So you were on your way.

You may not have been a pitcher for the Red Sox, but you were on your way to some sort of career in baseball, you thought.

Yes, sir.

You're 18.

Yes, sir.

What happens?

Well, a month after I got out of high school, we had qualified for a state tournament, and my coach said, before you sign

scholarship, why don't you wait till we go to the state tournament?

And if you do well, you're going to get more offers.

I said, that sounds great.

And so about 10 days before that tournament, I had gone to see a movie with one of my buddies, and we got out of the movie, and it was a beautiful sunset,

and there's a saying, red sky at night, sailors delight.

I'm really superstitious, and so I thought, that's a great sign of things to come.

And so we're driving, and he says, how about if we stop and get a bite to eat?

And so we saw a McDonald's, and so we pulled into the parking lot and parked on the side of the right side of the entrance across from the door.

And we got out and started walking across the parking lot.

And I realized I forgot my wallet.

And so he says, hey, I'm going to go ahead and go in.

And I went back to the car to get my wallet and picked my wallet up and closed the door and started taking a few steps toward the door.

And I heard a car come off the street quickly and stop suddenly.

I looked up and the two people in the car, the driver and the passenger, had opened their doors and were changing positions

to the other person who was going to drive.

So I stopped and waited for them to get in.

And when they got in and shut the doors, I motioned for them to go ahead and

drive through to get to the drive-thru.

And they motioned for me to start walking and go ahead and go.

And so I started walking, and I heard them rev their engine and squeal their tires.

And I had enough time to turn, and I lifted my left leg and put both my hands up.

And the car was speeding right at me, and I didn't have time to move anywhere else.

And the car hit me, threw me 20 feet in the air, and I slammed into the door, the brick wall, right where the corner of the door jutted out.

And luckily, I landed right in the corner.

I slammed into the brick wall, landed in a pile at the base of the corner of the wall.

And when I looked up, the car was coming at a higher rate of speed.

And the car hit the metal handrail, sparks flew, and the car's metal bumper pinned the handrail in the car's bumper against my knee against the wall.

And

I, you know, the engine is

revving and the car exhaust is, you know, I'm having a hard time breathing.

And I can see the lady just staring at me over the steering wheel.

And I'm screaming at her to please stop, please stop.

He goes on, he has multiple surgeries.

He has nightmares.

He has PTSD, but this is before anybody was diagnosing PTSD.

And he gets married.

He has all kinds of problems because he cannot sleep at night.

Do we know why this happened to him?

This was a woman who just freaked out and stepped on the gas instead of the brake all of a sudden and just was freaking out.

Yeah, I know.

Then years go by.

He learns to walk again.

He can't even walk.

Wow.

He goes through therapy.

He has a doctor that screws it up and his leg just snaps after surgery.

So he's got all these problems.

He finally gets a job as a groundskeeper because he wants to, you know, he wants to play baseball, but he can't.

So maybe I can just be a groundskeeper.

So he goes up and he's working for the Milwaukee Brewers, and they're doing

a whole new field for them.

And so they have everybody off, and the doors, the gates to the field are open one Saturday as they're redoing this field.

And this woman, another woman in a car,

a different woman in a different city, years later,

guns it, comes through the gate, and starts doing,

you know, wheelies

around the diamond she's just going around the diamond he starts running for the fence line and he hears in the background he hears that she is coming again

uh towards him now and he looks behind and here she is and she runs him down on purpose on purpose so she hasn't freaked out she has no she is crazy This woman's crazy.

Okay.

So he's unbelievable.

He's hit again twice.

Right.

It's crazy.

Gosh.

You don't know this guy by name, but you know his work because he finally got a job at the Boston Red Sox, and he's the guy.

He's the first guy to cut the pattern of like the flag or the logo in the grass.

He's the first guy to do that.

And his story is amazing.

It's an actual story that I purchased his life story probably 10 years ago.

I wanted to play it and wanted to do a book and a movie on it.

Could never get it done.

And I felt so bad because it's such a great story.

I just gave him the rights back.

He's got a new book out.

It's called One Bass at a Time.

Listen to this podcast.

You've never heard anybody like David before.

Such a good guy.

Such a great, inspiring story.

And one

story of a guy who just suffered in silence and nobody knew what he was going through.

Don't miss it on tomorrow's Glenbeck podcast.

Okay, I want to tell you about our sponsor, MyPillow.

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This is the Glenbeck program.

We're just talking about

We're just talking about one base at a time new book out of the Groundskeeper of Boston Red Sox.

And

his story is just absolutely remarkable.

Run over twice by freaky women.

Yeah.

Really weird.

Yeah, really weird.

Really weird.

Years and years apart in two different cities.

Yeah.

The coincidence in his life is just...

It's remarkable.

Were you

nervous when you walked off the set with him that there was going to be a car that burst through through the walls?

Well, no, he was actually more concerned because Mr.

Kool-Aid used to do that to me all the time.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, he'd just break through my wall and then he'd body slam me.

He's not.

That son of a bitch is not a nice guy.

He's not a nice guy.

I know a lot of people are like, oh, Mr.

Kool-Aid's here.

No.

Yeah.

He's a psycho.

Well, I mean, how many gigantic containers of Kool-Aid do you know

smashed through people's walls where they could go right through the gate or door?

If the guy would just use his power for good as opposed to evil, you know,

imagine how popular Kool-Aid would be if he wasn't breaking into people's houses and pinning the children against the walls.

So,

we didn't even talk about his car stuff.

We kind of got focused on the

Mr.

Kool-Aid

tragedy that I've carried around for years.

This is actually a podcast that you will enjoy.

But if you know somebody that is suffering and thinks that they're alone, holy cow, listen to this life-changing podcast.

Wherever you get your podcast, it comes out tomorrow, the Glenn Beck Program Podcast.

Tomorrow, iTunes and wherever else you get them.

You're listening to Glenn Beck.