Leading for Success: Strategies to Become a More Influential and Effective Leader

They'll be talking about revenue.

They'll talk about how many trucks they have on the road, because those are the two big measurements that have forever created the ego slap of the trades of business owners. And, you know, I mean, how many people that go out there and or this one, they find out somebody is, you know, a two million dollar shop when they're a 10 million dollar shop and they immediately lose interest in that person.
Right. Because they've just disqualified them as being someone that they would aspire to be.
And how often we'll spend time at a bar impressing people rather than being impressed by people? How much time we'll spend at that bar telling people what we know rather than being curious about what we don't know? And so these ongoing desires, whether it's the folks that have achieved what they have, we look immediately to somebody's credentials to decide if they're worth listening to, rather than listening to the message, to listen to it for what can I learn within this message? What is there that's of value? What is there that's interesting? What can I learn about this person? That's the thing, man, is that that premise of knowing, to know is the least productive state for learning. Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields like marketing, sales, hiring and leadership to find out what's really behind their success in business.
Now, your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello.

Before we get started, I wanted to share two important things with you. First, I want you to implement what you learned today.
To do that, you'll have to take a lot of notes, but I also want you to fully concentrate on the interview. So I asked the team to take notes for you.
Just text notes, N-O-T-E-S to 888-526-1299. That's 888-526-1299.
And you'll receive a link to download the notes from today's episode. Also, if you haven't got your copy of my newest book, Elevate, please go check it out.
I'll share with you how I attracted and developed a winning team that helped me build a $200 million company in 22 states.

Just go to elevateandwin.com forward slash podcast to get your copy.

Now let's go back into the interview.

All right, guys, welcome back to the Home Service Expert.

I'm in Dallas right now, so excuse the hotel.

But I'm really, really excited about my guest. You guys have have heard of this guy he's helping out a lot of companies he's really one of the best coaches out there keith mercurio you spoke at the lap the freedom events last year our uh vertical track and now you're speaking vertical track yeah at freedom and you're an expert in sales leadership, communication, training, and development.

You live in Wilmington, North Carolina.

You're the senior director of executive success at Service Titan.

And you run the Ethical Influence Global.

And you were the director of training at Nextstar.

And for more than seven years, he was the director of training at Nextstar Network, wherein he built and refined over 20 transformational training programs, oversaw the development of 15-person training staff, conducted over 120 events per year, and trained over 7,000 people annually. Keith is currently the Senior Director of Executive Success at Service Titan, and you are going to be speaking at Pantheon and at Freedom.
So this is exciting. Beautiful.
So what's going on in your world? Well, as you mentioned, we're in Wilmington, North Carolina. So I'm kind of watching a of watching a little bit of wind still blow from hurricane Adalia, tropical storm Adalia that just rolled through a little bit disappointing, Tommy.
I mean, obviously I'm not rooting for destruction, but a little bit more excitement would have, it was kind of fizzled out on us when it got here. You know, it's like you want the maximum like intensity with no damage or harm to anyone.
And you want to ride that line. And this turned out to be a pretty just a little bluster.
Nothing serious that rolled through here, but enjoying a beautiful morning of post tropical storm. And yeah, preparing for these upcoming events and some new content and and new conversations and obviously honored to be invited.
It still blows me away that people sign up to listen to me. It's just an amazing privilege that seemingly people still want to put me up there to listen to what I have to share with them.
Yeah, well, listen, you do a great job. I mean, I really, really enjoyed Simon Sinek and just that interview.
And now you're going to be on the stage doing a solo. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, keynoting. Yeah, I love I love the opportunity to keynote, but I conversation is my preference.
Like if I could always be in a conversation and interview podcast, whatever, that's what I love, because I exploring the, the space of a thoughtful conversation, but keynoting, you know, the thing I dig too,

is I come from an old Cindy Powski was my mentor as a speaker and trainer and facilitator.

And so she was, she was really adamant that in adult learning theory, you know, people only

have about eight minutes of maximum runtime for attention span. And so my keynotes are unique in that they engage the audience in ongoing conversation, individual exercises, that it's not a matter of just sitting and listening.
It's a participant-centered event. That's something I take a lot of pride in and try to still honor her great teaching.
So that's part of the joy of keynoting

for me is it's different than anything almost anyone's ever seen. Yeah, I really enjoyed your speech.
You had a lot of tears out there. It's interesting, Keith, because I'm seeing two different speaking coaches and man yesterday got my ass handed to me, but all good.
Lots of stuff I need to work on.

What'd you get your ass handed to you yesterday for?

Uh,

well,

I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. ass handed to me but uh all good lots of stuff i need to work on what'd you get your ass handed

to you yesterday for uh well just a lot of constructive criticism which i asked for i tend to talk really loud and not really change my voice inflections i tend to do run-on sentences I say and a lot.

And when I'm making a point, I don't stop.

I should really say it and then nod and then i'm learning a lot and just overall i never am going to hold a handhold mic again i'm going to buy a nice mic i love this for you yeah i love this for you for you. Whoever gave you that advice is spot on.
I've noticed that you always have a handheld every time I see you speaking from stage. I refer to handheld until I watch myself.
Yeah. We watched a whole hour-long speech.
And another thing is I don't say you enough. I say I, and what I did.
And

back when we did this, instead of saying, imagine you're in an office. And so what I noticed is I'm

trying to bring people with really, really great advice, make it about them instead of me.

So here's what I'll share with you on that and i think you're getting really good

coaching by the way whoever who's let's give a shout out to this coach who is it yeah scott

mccain and joel weldon joel weldon joel weldon scott mccain joel weldon both really really

successful speakers man like big big time yeah i think wait is scott mccain i think i know scott

McCain and that is like you're getting great

Thank you. Like big, big time.
Yeah, I think, wait, is Scott McCain, I think I know Scott McCain. And that is like, you're getting great advice here.
And the thing that I would say about the I and the you that I think is worth our audience hearing is I've learned over the years to use I when sharing from a place of limitations, vulnerabilities, mistakes that I've made, things that I'm currently learning, like active mistakes that I'm making. and when I share from a place of eye in that regard it demonstrative of the level of responsibility and vulnerability that I believe great coaches and leaders are capable of.
So, you know, the I the I piece, the way that I say this, Tommy, is that I find that people are far more interested in learning alongside me and far more resistant to being taught by me. Nobody wants to be told.
So when I find myself talking too much about my own success and then what you need to do, I create a lot of resistance. When I share with people the things that I'm challenged and struggling with and then how I'm attempting to overcome them or the things that I'm learning to try to over, you know, to overcome those challenges.
I see people really lean in and then want to learn alongside me. So that's my only addition to the idea of the eyes and the use.
Also, you got that great advice in there of the use of imagine and they've shared with you, no doubt that the mind is incapable of defending against imagine yeah it is yep yeah and so you know if i were to say like right like imagine that you know imagine that that painting were of a pink elephant behind you the mind has to for a brief moment go to that image and it can, I said, if I said it, don't imagine, don't imagine that that painting is of a pink elephant. You still can't help ourselves.
And we still go to that power. And this is maybe one of the most underutilized premises of personal development and growth is using the imagination.
Human beings are the only animal that can think a thought and create an emotion from that thought. And so like any parent who imagines or has had the experience of like turning around and losing track of their kid and the imagination immediately goes wild and the incredible experience that they have of the emotion behind it understands what this looks and feels like.
But very rarely do we intentionally evoke our imagination for seeing the things that we want to see in our lives, that we want to bring into our world, seeing ourselves the way we want to be, the reactions we want to create. And so there's a lot of power in evoking intentionality in imagination to start to create emotional responses.
And that's exactly what you're learning to do with your audience when you ask them to imagine something. You know, I'm learning a lot, but I think I got to spend a lot more time on my slides and I got a story based and I've always just kind of whipped it together for the audience.
And I'm going to spend a lot more time. I'm not a big fan necessarily because I speak in front of similar audiences that have seen me.
So I just don't always do the same keynote. And Scott said that's fine, but both of my coaches said, do not have 10 slides, have 50 slides, because people like to look at the slides as your talk.
If they make a point and keep you on track, but never have to look at the slides. And just, you know, I know there's different, there's some people that hate slide shows, and there's people that love them, but they said, for a guy like you, you've been successful in business, speaking's not your full-time job.
Use the slides as your advantage. Huh.
All right. I could buy that.
I could totally buy that. Cause that would be counter.
I don't really use slides. I use very few and mostly I count on the blank slide actually to bring attention back to the stage because whatever you put in front of somebody, expect them to read it.
And so it's very hard. Yeah.
They're pictures, they're stories,

they're things that invoke me to stay on task. Excellent.
Yeah, this is great. You're getting

great coaching. Not surprising, Tommy.
Good for you. Well, that's the deal is I'm a big fan of

coaching. You were a longtime coach.
You know how much I've spent on coaching? I'm always,

I got a trainer, which screwed me over and pinched a nerve in my back, but he's a great trainer.

I don't have been doing, I was doing upright rows and never pinched my nerve like this before, but it's one of those things you just get over it, but I can barely move and it's annoying as hell. So I'm going to have to figure out and it's not, the chiropractor couldn't do anything so it's something deep tissue muscle that i gotta figure out there are a few pains worse than than back pain and so i'm sorry a acknowledge that like that sucks and thanks for showing up even though you're hurting and b no i don't know how much you've spent on coaching because you've spent none of it with me so i how would i know that? Well, you know, you got a lot of guys I spent several hundred thousand dollars with, and it's some of the best investments I've ever done.
The point of saying that is, you know, people always say, you know, how did you figure all this stuff out? I didn't. I made a lot of mistakes, a lot of mistakes.
I think the president of our company, Dan Miller, calls me entrepreneurial. He's like, you move so fast, you make decisions and you go.
And he thinks it's somewhat of a flaw. And I say, well, you know, Dan, you have things on the roadmap for a year from now that never get done.
And you're used to a corporate environment where people sit around and drink coffee and make decisions in a month when things aren't perfect. And I said, I understand the hustle in me needed to die when I became a CEO.
And it does. The hustler needs to die.
The negotiator, the things that got me here are not the things that elevated me to the new level. And it's hard to swallow that, but to step up in a leadership role and be a coach and be a motivator and understand that I'm not going to do everything.
It's a very, very hard concept. I embraced it.
I learned to delegate. Am I looking at you? Cause there's like eight cameras on this thing.
You are not. It's really interesting that you ask that.
Hold which way there you go okay now am i looking at you well a little bit but you're because of course that camera is just above the i don't know where the camera is i well here's the thing am i looking at you you are looking are looking at me, but this is Bree's iPad. So the reason, and I'm very specific about using an iPad for this reason, because I am able to place you on the left-hand side of my screen, which creates the experience of me looking at you.
And I just got done about three minutes before our podcast. I was doing a training with our team in Armenia.
We had 140 people on the call. And one of the primary pieces I was sharing with them was their capacity to influence as it relates to the virtual world.
And among other things, what I shared with them, this is a lesson I learned from the incredible speaking coach, Renee Rodriguez, a good friend of mine. And he, he shared this, uh, when we went into the pandemic and I was trying to learn how to, to be more effective on camera.
And he said, I want you to remember Keith, that your hands command attention, right? So when your hands show up in the frame, they command attention and your eyes create connection. And so whatever it takes to formulate your screen so that the person to whom you're speaking is closest to the camera so that you're able to have what you were just telling me I've created here, which is I'm looking at you, but you're experiencing me looking at the camera.
So you're experiencing that connection of eye contact. It's powerful.
powerful it really is and it's one of those things where i really enjoy looking at the people on the podcast and you're over here and the camera's over here and i'm not going to figure this out so note to self yeah fair enough i think yeah on zoom all you have to do is touch the pane and slide it over to, yeah. Maybe that, okay, maybe that worked.
Yeah, here's the problem. You just screwed me over.
So they just flipped on my end. I can make this work.
You're delighted. Tell me, what are you speaking about at Pantheon? What gets you going in the morning? What do you love to really work with people on? God, this is my new favorite content, Tommy.
So I decided to bring new content to the stage at Pantheon. And it's been something that I've been working on for a while.
The name of the the talk is rewriting wrong. And the basic premise is this idea that, that the number one affliction that is costing us human beings, progress, success, happiness, quality of life, quality of work, quality of relationships is our need to be right and how completely and totally locked into rightness we are.
And, you know, this was part of our upbringing. It's part of how we've been groomed.
It's part of how we're designed to operate in a tribal capacity. But, you know, if you go back to school, the very first thing that we learned is that the more often you're right, the more value you have, right? The more successful you are.
I mean, we're graded in how often we're right, the percentage at which we're right, and then giving grades on that thing. And, you know, whether you were great at school or bad at school, you still derive some sense of value from the rate at which you were right.

So for some people, they found out that they weren't very right at school. So they went and found something else they could be right at.
And so then once we get locked in on being right about what we know, then we start to really look at that as like our area that we need to hold on to. And as a result, human beings will do nearly anything to continue to believe that they're right about what they think they're right about.
And my goal in this talk and in this world, frankly, is to help people see that the day that they should wake up and hope for is a day in which they found out that they were wrong about something that they previously believed to be true.

Because it's in finding out that we're wrong that we can make the most substantial progress and growth. Because if you go to bed tonight, write about everything that you woke up thinking, what changed? Not a whole lot.
And so this idea is I want people to start to celebrate their wrongness and to start looking for the areas in which they're wrong about their beliefs, about others, about their beliefs and what is, about the beliefs, about how the world works. I'm not saying everything needs to be turned upside down, but when we can explore those beliefs, particularly the limiting ones, the ones that don't honor and don't serve, and we can re-evaluate them from a new place of awareness and find out areas in which we're wrong or find out areas

in which we're ineffective, then we can start to really create remarkable periods of growth

in our life.

But it's hard work.

It goes against our wiring to do it.

And so what we have to learn is to understand that we're wired to want to be right and make others wrong. And that the only way that we can genuinely combat this is to realize that we all have that same bias, that confirmation bias wired within us, that we're programmed to confirm that we're right day in and day out, hour in and hour out.
You know, I was listening to a really old speaker. I don't even know his name, but he said, what happens when you squeeze an orange really, really hard? Is this a rhetorical or do i answer answer uh i suspect at some point

the skin breaks and the juice comes out the apple juice doesn't come out does it oh and you said an orange oh yeah but no apple juice does not come out no it's always orange Well, when people get squeezed, people might feel wrong.

And people are in a weird situation. If what comes out is negative, confrontation, just really, really negative attitudes.
It's inside of you. and to be able to say it's just interesting because what comes out of a lot of mature people that that learn is a whole new outlook and i think that that's important because so many people they get defensive and they say this is not the way i was told and they don't want to learn new things they're stuck in their And I thought that would kind of hit what you were talking about.
It's kind of on point because when I talk to people, I try to make it, and you know, I wrote the book Elevate. Instead of talking to people about what I want is understand their goals that are written down and what their bucket list is.
I will say it's really, really hard to figure out somebody's why because most people don't even know why they're doing it. And you got to dig.
If I say, Keith, why do you work? You say, well, I got to provide. I got a wife.
I got a house. And then I'd say, Keith, what's beyond that? Well, you got to keep going.
And it's so hard to figure out the people's real why. But when you get those like literally i went to the doctor and i got a blood test a saliva test a uh the urine test and i had five reasons that i wanted to push myself so i stopped drinking it's like 52 days at least for the near seats near foreseeable future i'm getting my body fat the plan is to go below 10%.
I'm getting 250 grams of protein a day. And the why was big.
I mean, he didn't find anything major. I had a leaky gut and a few other things.
But he said, you know, we want to get you healthy. And we want you to feel great about yourself.
And now when I'm looking in the mirror with my shirt off, I feel a lot better than I did, but I know where I'm going.

And I know that doesn't really hit the exact same, but figuring out people's why, what motivates them, how they like to receive is so important.

And not everybody's the same.

In fact, most people are not the same.

Like if I called you up to get on stage because you were number one in our company, you know, sales, you might love it. You might say, Tommy, this is the best gift I could ever receive.
Or you might quit. You might say, I had no idea you were going to do that.
I was embarrassed. I literally made a fool of myself, you know? So good.
So let's unpack there, as there always is with you, Tommy. And I want to back up because there's some really powerful stuff along the way that I think needs to be amplified.
The first thing I want to acknowledge, I think that what I've come to admire most about your leadership is the degree to which you have recognized that what drives you simply does not have anything to do with what drives anybody else. I've watched leader after leader after leader in my lifetime,

entrepreneurs who think that everybody in their business should care the same way they care about the same things they care about. And therefore, they get stuck in using the same methodologies to try to motivate people.

And you have consistently demonstrated.

It was one of the first things I learned about you

that I really admired,

was this idea that you interview people

when you first hire them,

and you explore what their goals are,

what they want to achieve,

and then simply show them a genuine roadmap

by which those things can become real and true for them.

So I think that's extraordinary.

I think the idea that people don't really understand

their why is also super powerful. I love Simon Sinek.
He's a hero of mine. My time on stage with him is one of the great moments of my career.
And I didn't find the what's your why a particularly compelling piece, because what I found is that most people don't like they kind of stop at the very premise of it, but don't do the necessary exploration deep down. And a lot of the reality for people's why is that they, you know, why do you do what you do? Well, they're trying to come up with an answer that sounds good to other people.
So only because I've done so much work on these, Tommy, if you ask me, what's my, why, why do I speak in front of audiences? And why do I coach people? I would tell you that at the most basic level, at the most honest depth of why I do that, it's because I am insecure and I seek affirmation and validation in my life. and coaching and speaking are two areas in which I've discovered that I can consistently find a sense of significance in my own self and my self-worth.
Wow. Now, years ago, I would have said, well, I love helping people and I just love having an impact.
And don't get me wrong. I love that shit.
I think that's an amazing. I'm really happy that my sense of finding my own significance and filling this absolutely bottomless pit of affirmation and, you know, adulation that I am, that I also tend to do something valuable in the world with it.
Like I found a way to do it,

but the truth is it feeds a need in me and it's not some super altruistic, beautiful need to

serve humanity. I feel a responsibility to do that, but the need is something that's like, uh,

an insecurity inside of me. And so I love the feeling I get

from knowing that I fucking matter and that what I'm doing, I'm good at. And what I'm doing seems

to have an impact in making others happier, which in turn makes me valuable. So that's the thing

about the why conversation is I don't think people really typically in my experience have the, the courage or have done the work to go find like,

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the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thing about the why conversation is I don't think people really typically in my experience have the

the courage or have done the work to go find like yeah but what's the real why like what are we

really up to as human beings that drives what we do well we're selfish I mean I would say my biggest

why and now that I really think deep about it and become vulnerable uh would be I definitely

I don't think, wow, I'm giving this person. I hated it.
Usually with my buddies, I say I got free miles. I got to use them up by this date.
I never say I'm paying for stuff. I'm not that.
I hate that. Oh, I did good, so I'm going to take you with me.
But when I can bring them selfishly, it it's really great for me. It's great for you.
And I would add something else to that, Tommy, if you're really willing to look down. What is it, you know, I mean, like, what is it you didn't get when you were growing up that now you're getting and feeding by being able to do that? No, I should just do a micro dose and we should just go.
Well, then you'd be on my level at this point. Well, I haven't gotten down that route, but you should be the guy with me.
Because I'd be happy to be on that journey with you. You uncover so much.
And I think for me, is there, there's a lot there. To be frank with you, I'm kind of scared of what's going to come out.
I'm a little bit, although I know it sets you free. I know these things need to be discussed.
They're buried deep down in a hole for a reason. Now, self-examining reflection, that's never been one of my strengths.
But like I said is I got to to new things if i'm gonna grow and i need to be willing to face my demons because they'll probably set me free everybody i've heard i was the guy that wanted all the attention in school i was a class clown i was a jock but what i love the most about what i do is when i teach i definitely feel like I have to be an expert. And as I'm teaching, it makes me a better person.
So fair. And I believe that same for me.
Like I'm at my best when I'm doing this work. I know that because it's actually the only time, ironically, that I don't constantly think about myself and what I'm getting.
and so even though my whole creation of this work was for me and to serve something in me, it's only in admitting that, that I actually free myself from that need for a moment and serve others. So I I'm completely with you there.
And I think what's super powerful, Tommy, look at that. You just unveiled the pattern in school.
You were the class clown. You were the jock.
And now you're at the front of the room and you're teaching and you're super successful. So what are you getting? You're getting attention and you're getting approval.
It's just the same pattern your whole life. You're just finding different ways.
And now you found more productive ways to do it that actually serve others along the way. Right now, back when you were a class clown, it was by making others laugh.
Or when you were a jock, it was by winning and making people cheer. And now you've taken that and you've brought it into your career and you're, you're developing, but man, there's one of the most powerful, uh, moments I ever had in this regard.
Her name is Kathy Elliott. She was a forum leader in a program that I went through, culty program.
I used to say I joined one cult per year and I would go all in on some sort of transformational self-development work to which, to your point, I can't tell you anything less fun than that deep work. I mean, you talk about confronting demons and facing like the ugliest parts of me, the things that I most wanted to pretend weren't true and have hidden from and all that, that this work is brutal.
And Kathy Elliott, you know, she was one of the first to just completely call me out on my bullshit and help me identify that I was completely inauthentic. And every time that I tried to say that I was doing this on behalf of these people, and I'm doing this because I really like to help and this because I really like to serve.
She said, Keith, the only time you're ever going to find authenticity is when you acknowledge how inauthentic you are. I was one of the most freeing and painful.
It took me days and days and days. And maybe, you know, I don't know that I've ever fully gotten there.
Every time I think I've gotten to some level of enlightenment, that's when the other shoe drops and I'm humbled again. So now I try to just acknowledge that I'm probably nowhere near where I think I am, but days and weeks and months of sitting with that and just exploring it and finally realizing like, yeah, I am.
When I get up on stage pretending that I'm there because I'm, it's an act of service to others. And that's why I'm doing it.
That's completely inauthentic. And when I finally admitted that, funny enough, that was the moment at which authenticity seemed to suddenly arrive, was when I stopped chasing it.
Let me ask you a question, Keith, because this is something that I've been really dwelling on a lot lately, is I heard Brad Lee the other day, and I was on his podcast a few months ago.

He's a great guy. And he said, entrepreneurs are always chasing something.
He said, usually when they start out, it's money. I want to get to a million dollars a year.
Then I want to get to a million dollars a month. And if I only made a million dollars a week, and we're talking revenue here, most people aren't that in profit but it seems like as an entrepreneur a lot of us and i'm really coming to terms with this because i'm living in the now i'm trying to make the most out of my schedule and live in the now because there's all these artificial things out there that if i just had that car and i don't go through this but i know know a lot of people do, or if I just hit this goal and then you find yourself hitting that goal and you're like, well, that all of a sudden the post moves dramatically and you're like, but this would make me happier.
If the kids, when the kids turn 18, we're going to finally enjoy our marriage because they'll be out of the house. Or when the mother-in-law, when she finally moves down, gets her own place, we'll finally be happy.
There's always that thing that you're waiting for. And it could be monetary.
It could be a lot of things. When we finally get to go to this trip to Hawaii, that's when we'll actually enjoy our lives.
Instead of living right now and saying tomorrow's not promised, this is the time. And I'm a big fan of building my own destiny.
And just I really spent a lot of time in my brain manifesting. And not everything when you hit a goal, it's a sense of dopamine and serotonin that gives you a good rush.
But then it goes away and it fizzles out and it's on to the next thing. And did you notice that with entrepreneurs? Short answer is yes.
The deeper answer, my challenge to Bradley and what he said, which by the way, Bradley, I'm going to take your word for it that he's a great guy because that's another one of those where I watch his social media. I unsubscribe from his social media because I just could not get on board with the way he comes across, but I keep hearing he's a guy so it's like that interesting disconnect which by the way he's an he's an actor he told me straight up he goes i need to put out great content all the time everybody that works for me is doing an audition they have acting contracts that's what they do i'm an entertainer we've got to be controversial we've got to oppose the viewpoints if you just kind of talk about things that are non-controversial, anybody who makes it on social media is an influencer.
They're always pushing the strings of controversy. And people don't like that because they have more haters.
But haters are following them more than the people that like them. Yeah, I mean, that was the old Howard Stern theory.
I guess my problem is if you're showing up as a coach or an influencer of success and so on, but then acting to create a following, where's the integrity and the message? And what's the responsibility of the followers that they're being given something to model that's true to the success, not true to the engagement and popularity? That's my challenge. And I don't, it's ingenuous, I think is what you're saying.
And yeah, that's fair. Yeah.
That's my concern. If somebody's coming out and saying, look, this is not, you know, this is for this reason, then so be it.
But anyway, I only say that because again, to that point, you know, one of the things I shared with you honestly was when you first invited me on your podcast, I had only known you through your social media and I didn't enjoy your social media presence, like the way that you came across. And then I met you and was completely talk about something that I was wrong about as far as who you were and where your heart was and the way that you operated.
And so I was, I mean, you're a great example of where I was wrong and how happy I am to have learned that I was wrong because of how much value you brought to my life. And so, you know, that's a perfect example.
And I mentioned that with Brad Lee, because that's, I'm sure same thing I'll take, I believe you, I'm sure he is a great guy. And two things can be true at once.
You can be a great guy and I can not like your social media presence, right? Like those are, those are possible truths. I just heard the other day, you know, my, my, one of my favorite follows Vin Jiang, amazing speaker.
And, uh, he, you know, he said that the most successful people he sees in this life are the people that can hold two things to be true at once. And we have such a need again, back to the right, wrong thing for this to be true.
And therefore that has to be false. Whereas two things can be true, you know? And so when we're talking about this idea with Bradley saying like entrepreneurs are chasing something, yes.
And I wonder how much that thing that they're chasing is more about what they're running away from. And with so many entrepreneurs, you know, I've shared this, whatever style you, you know, profile you want to use, I use color code and this would be the red color code personality or, you know, these drivers in disc profile and so on.
What I tend to see that's true about high performing entrepreneurs, drivers, people that, you know, are doing what you're doing, what so many folks out there are doing is that they end up finding their sense of self-worth in accomplishment. Now, that obviously creates incredible results.
And as such, they build businesses and have hugely successful and they make big bets and they gamble and go for big things and create visions and people follow them.

And without you all, I don't have a job. I don't get to be a coach to executives without these executives who are willing to live their lives that way.
But what I also see is that when you take away the job, like, for example, when I've watched some of these incredible leaders and they sell to private equity and they walk away from the business, suddenly they really struggle with who the fuck am I without what it is that I do and accomplish. And right about that.
You hear it. And that's the hardest part about acquisitions is trying to explain what life is going to be like and get them comfortable saying this is only your first rodeo this isn't the end well and to that point though you know you talk about like the ability to you know to be present if somebody were truly set in themselves totally

comfortable with who they are then you know there's a much more real possibility that they could be

then happy without, you know, on the other side of that moment. But to your point, it's like, well, now who am I now? What worth do I bring? And that's why I said, yeah, exactly.
Exactly. And it's an identity that's, that's formed in a lot of people from running from the sense of being insignificant, being inadequate, being unworthy, like all the fears that sit somewhere below the surface for us as human beings that we're blindly, and I say this because they're blind spots, blindly running from that tend to drive us.
And again, that brings us back to where that deep, honest, courageous self-reflection has to come from of what am I really up to? Like, what is there below the surface? And man, that's a tough lesson. And what I'm trying to learn is I don't have a great sense of self-worth without my work.
I mean, one of the things that I dread the most is just being alone with my damn thoughts. And it's because when I'm engaged in this work, I'm creating a sense of value and significance and meaning.
But when I'm just left with myself, like what I'm really trying to work on as a human being is that without the accomplishment, without the coaching, without anything else, that I still am worth a damn as a human being. And so I think there's a big sense of that.
So much of what drives us to do and has us chasing something isn't so much what we're chasing, which is why when we get there, by the way, we're unfulfilled, but it's actually what's chasing us, what we're running from. Yeah.
You know, we talk a lot about fear, uncertainty, and doubt, and there's nothing that moves people bigger and more than fear. We do things to protect our well-being.
And if you look back at mankind and just think about what we used to have to do to survive, we live in a good world right now where we don't.

And what is that expression? Easy times make weak people. Hard times make great people.
And you look at this and I was in a Uber last night and the guy said, man, I got a motorcycle accident. I'm barely making ends meet.
I used to be able to go to the grocery store, buy whatever I want. And the guy was young.
He's getting ready to go into the surgery. and I'm like man

it's so interesting what

people are going through grocery store, buy whatever I want. The guy was young.
He's getting ready to go into the surgery.

And I'm like, man, it's so interesting what people are going through out in this world right now. And just, I really loved the fact that I could say, I've got a lot, you know, and I'm very grateful and I'm very fortunate.
And when is enough enough? People always ask me, my mom asked I mean, when is enough enough?

And I go, it's not about the money at this point.

For me... unfortunate and when is enough enough people always ask me my mom asked me when is enough enough and i go it's not about the money at this point it for me is what would you like me to do would you like me to retire and mow the lawn and go meet the uh the amazon delivery guy but this is a big problem because i love still being the ceo of my company i i rolled 47 you know we did a deal in december and i love the guys i work with and ken goodrich are you familiar with ken goodrich i am he called me up he was on my board of advisors and he said hey tommy he said i know this is scary and fun at the same time in fact i lost some of my hair i got alopecia during the process.
I was a nervous wreck. There was a lot of anxiety and stress.
You know, they're doing background checks. They're asking, what did you spend this money on? What happened with these reviews? You know, when you're spending half a billion dollars on something, you're going to go deep and make sure it's a good investment for your LPs.
But Ken said, when you get to learn what these guys know, the financial engineering behind it, the way they use debt, the way they raise their funds. He's like, I really think you love to learn, Tommy.
He goes, you're really, he goes, you just turned 40. You are going to love this.
And I got to tell you, I'm enjoying the ride, but I look at the guys that just completely exit the business. You know, they're 60s the wife's on their butt this has been a lot of anxiety and stress they want that money that comfort but also they they've done this for 30 years they're used to the every going in on monday morning and dealing with the fires and most of the companies that we're partnering with are a million or two of ebda so they they're still, they're not used to delegating.
They're used to going in and being like, I do the inventory. I'm the one that handles HR.
I do the hiring. And I'm watching people.
It's very hard to relieve to not have to do that. And my answer is, did you enjoy, do you want to be a CSR? Because I can put you in a dispatch position.
We could have you do do inventory if you'd like but there's this sense of if i don't do it it won't be done right so tommy what's so powerful about what you're sharing here is that this comes back to this idea of like the thing that i'm good at and the thing that i i know how to do well and it's another of being right. And if we're deriving our self-worth from like, I've been this successful, then we're going to continue to want to hold on to the things that gave us our sense of self and self-worth and what's crazy.
Like, so this is why, you know, I'm excited to give this talk at Pantheon on, on rewriting wrong, because like. Because just think about it right now.
When you go to these events, there's going to be, what, 2,500 contractors there. How many people are going to be at Freedom? Shooting for around 800 to 1,000.
Okay. So you're going to have 800 to 1,000 people there.
How many of them do you think are going to spend their time at the bar asking questions of the people around them so they can learn what they're wrong about versus telling stories to people about what they're right about? Yeah, I mean, 90% will be, you know, and they'll be talking a lot about revenue, not profit. They'll be talking about revenue.
They'll talk about how many trucks they have on the road, because those are the two big measurements that have forever created the ego slap of the trades of business owners. And, you know, I mean, how many people that go out there and, or this one, they find out somebody is, you know, a $2 million shop when they're a $10 million shop and they immediately lose interest in that person, right? Because they've just disqualified them as being someone that they would aspire to be.
And how often we'll spend time at a bar impressing people rather than being impressed by people? How much time we'll spend at that bar telling people what we know rather than being curious about what we don't know. And so these ongoing desires, whether it's the folks that have achieved what they have, we look immediately to somebody's credentials to decide if they're worth listening to.
Rather than listening to the message, to listen to it for what can I learn within this message? What is there that's of value? What is there that's interesting? What can I learn about this that's the thing man is that that premise of knowing you know to know is the least productive state for learning right the moment that we know something we tell the non-conscious mind to shut off all curiosity and learning i already know how to do that i know what to do here. Hell, even this one, you know, I know what to do.
It's just a matter of doing it. If that's true, then you don't know what to do.
Because there's something in between what it is that you know you need to do and what it is that you actually need to figure out you need to learn to do in order to do the thing you know to do. It's implementation.
This is where everybody struggles. Information's free.
And the smartest people, the speakers in the world, they give out the information. They sell the implementation because implementation is really, really difficult.
You think you know exactly the path, but you get distracted. And there's a million things going on and it's prioritization.
I know I'm supposed to get my manuals done. I've got to get service-type dialed in with the KPIs.
They've got this AI dispatcher I've got to implement. But right now I've got to hire an employee, and now I've got a customer pissed off that I've got to go solve the problem.
And if I don't do it, it won't get done right. And I think part of my success, Keith, is the fact that I don't do any of this stuff, and a lot of mistakes happen.
And I had to be okay with that. And it's almost the first day I found out a lot of stuff wasn't going right.
I can remember the day. And to not fix it took the most self-discipline and to allow people to make mistakes and learn on their own.
And you know you can fix it. You've been through this scenario before.
And it's the hardest thing you'll ever do as a business owner is to allow mistakes to happen. But you're allowing people to grow.
You know, I'm just learning something in myself. Because you just said a couple of things.
You said, like, the smartest people give away the information and they sell the implementation, which is funny because fundamentally I sell the information, right? As a speaker. And that's probably because I'm so bad at the implementation side.
That's super that you just kind of woke me up to my own moment right here, which I appreciate. And then, you know, I finally, finally hired a social media team to start producing, taking my content, repurposing and putting it out on Instagram and LinkedIn and everything else, which I've been terrified to do because I was so afraid of, you know, not being liked, not being popular, being seen, especially by my friends.
I was afraid my friends were going to think I was being a total dick putting this stuff out on the internet. But the other thing that came with it is they've made, and they're doing an incredible job.
I mean, like really, really impressive, but they've made a lot of mistakes that I would never have been okay with. And I am just like learning to live with them.
And it's so painful for me, Tommy, like the first cut is blurry or, you know, the language in the caption doesn't quite sound like the way I would say it or I would write it. And there's a degree to which I have to hold true to my standards because that's my brand is being impeccable with language.
But also like if it was up to me and I was the final one to implement this, nothing would ever get done. Nothing would ever be posted.
Nothing would ever get shared because I would be chasing, it would take me a month to create one post because I'd be so obsessed with the perfection of it every single time. And so you're really just striking a lot of chords for me in my own development and business and where I struggle.
Well, Keith, here's a tip and just hear this for what it's worth. I remember I've gone through four executive assistants.
I'm hiring a personal assistant and I got so angry one day at the airline. I had a connection flight.
I didn't have my pre-check. I had to find my number and I'm sitting there really angry.
I was very frustrated. I said, what in the hell is this common sense? And then I realized to look in the mirror and say, this is completely my fault.
So then what I proceeded to do was book four tickets and have it on a Zoom recording. And I said, the first thing I look for, I don't like Southwest, but I'll fly Southwest if I have to.
And I said, this is the order of operations I go through. Here's where I enter my pre-check.
I always check for this. I always do this before I head there to make sure the flight didn't change because I've showed up to the wrong terminal and missed my flight.
They don't know this. So when I built exactly what I wanted, what my brain was going through as I'm moving the mouse and thinking through things, it gave an insight of how I wanted things done.
I hated the housekeeper, the way she put the boxers and the way she put the shirts the wrong facing way and didn't put everything in order. So I said, let me show you the way that I really appreciate this being done.
And here's why I do it this way. Here's the why behind it.
And here's what makes sense to me. And until I was able to really give an example and let them see what I was going through in my thought process, and maybe they had a better way and I was open to that.
But to be able to have somebody extract from me exactly what I want is almost impossible without giving them an example. That's why the top people at A1 Roger's service, the president, the COO, they all don't have executive assistants or personal assistants.
In fact, two of them tried and they said they can't do anything right. Look at these people.
They screw up the easiest things. You know, I don't look at my mail.
I don't look at my email. And I'm not bragging because there's a lot of things that go wrong.
But I'm okay with that. I signed up for that.
But I always have an opportunity to look in the mirror and say, I need to be a better coach. I need to help them understand.
I need to let them make the mistakes. And that's how people grow.
And it's hard because there's 800 people I work with. And there's shit that goes wrong all the time.
There was two car accidents last week. We've got the cameras.
We do the driver's training. We check the DMV records.
And it's hard because you're going, now mistakes happen. And it's something we have to live with because now with almost 400 technicians, let's just pretend, Keith, that a technician will do 75% of what I can do because I'm talking to the HOA president when I'm there.
I'm putting a yard sign. I'm getting four reviews.
I'm getting a video testimonial. I'm talking to the neighbors.
I'm signing up a service agreement. I don't know if I'm the best, but let's just say I was.
And every single technician is 75% of what I can do.

With 400 technicians, I'm operating at 3,000% of what I could ever do.

And that's what I think it's a very hard lesson to swallow.

$234,000. Sorry, but I had to interrupt this interview to share the good news with you.
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Now let's get back to this interview. That was incredible advice.
And, you know, I'm seeing so much of my blind spots in what you just shared. It's always great because it's like, you know, I have this amazing experience these days where I have my coaching call with my coach every two weeks.
And it happens right after a coaching call that I coach an executive on. And this like really beautiful, just hilariously laughable symbiotic event has been occurring where she has been giving me almost the exact same coaching verbatim that I had just concluded giving to somebody on a call.
And I'm sitting there going, you've got to be fucking kidding me, Keith. Like, how are you not seeing this? And this is why this, these to your previous point, why the coaching is so invaluable, right? But as I'm listening to you describe this, this is coaching that I give people.
What's one activity that if you took the time to do, it would create a multiplying effect in the business or in others and what is the multiplying effect and so your example if i pause and take five minutes to record this video once i have the impact of you know what 50 flights a year 25 flights a year that i know will now be handled differently for. And that's going to make this impact.
And then looking at the business the same way, what I find so many of our business leaders are troubleshooting and fixing a problem without realizing that if that same problem is occurring two or three times, that that means that there's a systematic break in there. And that doesn't mean, by the way, it's so important that we don't immediately go to, oh, I need to create a process to fix that.
I know, God bless him. I know Al Levy would write another page in his book for a process to fix the thing.
He's amazing at building processes, but sometimes it can be, do we have clarity on the values? Do we have clarity on beliefs? And do we have absolute clarity on what our identity is as a business and we're operating from a place of a shared culture and identity? So there's a lot of different ways to look at it, but I digress there. I really, I just want to thank you for what you just shared with me.
That was excellent advice. I see some real opportunities.
You know, there's a book called 10 X is better than two X. And in this book, it shares, what is your superpower? What is something that you can do that no one else can do? And I really thought a lot about this and I've got five major core things that I focus on and I'll go through them very, very quickly.
And I'd love to hear what you have to say about it because you've got a lot of insight on these things. I didn't pick one superpower

because my strengths come from hiring people that are stronger and better than me. At least

I like to be well-rounded, but I focus on a lot of things. I focus on what I'm best at.
So

I'm never going to be near the CFO Adrian is. I can never do what Dan could do or Luke could do.
If you look at every catalyst, including Al Levy and Service Titan and Adam Cronenberg and Dan Miller, the people I bring up. So I'm always a talent scout looking for amazing people that bring value, that align with my values.
Number two is I always got to focus on the customer journey and getting the right clients in because one client, the right relationship is just, it can be so much fruit. The third thing is I'm here in Dallas looking at a potential partnership.
And I, what I've realized is nobody has the passion. I won't say nobody has the passion, but they want to talk to me.
They don't want to talk to the VP of corporate development. So I'm here doing that.
And then the motivation. People look at me sometimes for approval.
They want to hear from me. They want to know they're on track.
They send me their, they just got done with a job. I got this, this guy died.
He had a heart attack winding a spring. And I got a text message yesterday of a lady that just bawled.
We did it for free. And the guy sent me this.
He said, I started crying too with the lady. He wanted to share that with me.
And I want to be there for my team to share those moments. And the last thing is, if the culture doesn't get built, it builds itself.
So I got to be cognizant of that and make sure that there's a good communication loop. Because you take the smartest people, you take guys like Vahe, who are very, very intelligent.
And I've seen he's a lot more than that. So this isn't about him.
But you take the smartest people, put them in one company, the highest IQs. And you have another one of average IQs that communicate perfectly and it's not siloed.
They'll whoop the ass of the other company. And I find that companies, when they grow, get very siloed.
People care more about their department than they do about the whole of the vision, of the mission of the company. So those are the things I focus on.
And I really, really learned to say, no,

I'm not going to be in there in the brainstorming session.

You're going to do it.

I'm going to trust you.

We'll talk about some key things I want,

but this is all you.

And if it doesn't go right, I'm not going to get mad.

It's a learning experience.

If we lose a million dollars,

you got a lot of expensive trading. What's the, that's a beautiful way to look at it, by the way.
A lot of expensive training. So I was trying to capture the five, passion, motivation, building culture.
Well, it's really what I am is a recruiter for clients, for acquisitions, and for talent. I mean, that's really what I like.
I like marketing, and I like talking to people, and I like hearing their story. Yeah.
And I'm okay at it. I could be better.
There's 8 billion people. There's millions of people that are better than me.
And I try to get myself in those circles to learn from them. But I don't spend a lot of time, Keith, trying to get good at things that I'm not, if I'm not passionate about them.
People say I have ADHD, but I'll sit here and focus with you for 10 hours because you intrigue me and you stimulate my brain. But if it's boring, you want to see ADHD, put me in a room that I don't want to hear anything about.
I could go to Never Neverland for

the rest of the day. You'll never even know that I was in that room.
Well, fair enough. I mean, I think that my understanding of ADHD is exactly that, that it's distractibility or intense hyperfocus.
And so fair. And I'll also point out that I have absolutely watched me lose your attention on countless occasions when I've been talking with you.

So I'm not always intriguing. And I'll also point out that I have absolutely watched me lose your attention on countless occasions when I've been talking with you.

So I'm not always intriguing to you.

There's definitely chinks in that armor as well. Well, you know, it's your superpower.
If you had to pick, if I said, Keith, if you only had to pick one thing that you enjoy, you're passionate about, and you excel at,

that really a lot of people would not be able to fill this void, what would that be? I have to say, I think the thing I do better than nearly anyone else is the way I listen. and I listen to people's language so intently because what I'm discovering is that language reveals people's relationship with their reality.
And so the superpower, like for sure, you know, it's obvious, like I know I'm a good speaker and I can command an audience, but where I really do something, I'm not the best at that. The thing that I think I do better than nearly anyone I've met is listen and listen below the surface to find out what's really driving and motivating people and what's really like beneath the surface of the non-conscious as far as what's operating and what are we really up to.
And in doing so, you know, that's where we, where I'm able to do really powerful work very quickly

with people.

And, you know, I'll give you an example.

I was I was coaching, coaching an incredibly successful young executive, like, you know,

super successful beyond beyond his years.

He's just gone through an experience with where there are some role shifts and an integration

and everything else.

And he said to me, it's hard to show up enthusiastically when you don't know if your job is safe. And so what I shared with them, I said, I want you to just now I want to just play back what you just said.
And it's this idea that you don't know if your job is safe. And I asked him to just consider the reality.
I said, you just revealed this idea that you're seeing your job as an actual tangible thing

that is to be protected.

And what's really clear is that you've made your enthusiasm and how you show up dependent

upon somebody else's expression of an element of safety.

And so in this one statement, though very understandable, I think anyone could understand

and agree with the fact that it's hard to show up enthusiastically if you're worried about, you know, your employment,

your job being safe. What this sentence revealed was an extraordinary relationship context that he was having with his reality.
And what I shared, I said, first of all, a job is a made up fucking thing. I mean, what is a job? It's a series of agreements that do a business and a person enter into about some things you're going to perform and some money that's going to be received.

What's a fucking job?

It's made up.

If anyone knows the jobs are made up, it's me, Keith Mercurio, who's completely made up my entire career.

I mean, so this idea that a job deserves to be safe just alone is a really like that's a piece of contextual shifting paradigm shifting that should occur for everybody. There's no such thing as a safe job.
It's ridiculous to believe that there should be. Why should a job be safe? People are worried about jobs being shipped here, shipped there.
Well, of course they're going to be like, of course they're going to be. And so we have to come to grips with, we're fighting with reality to think that this made up thing, a job is supposed to be protected and safe.
You have tenure and you're an instructor, but go ahead. Yeah.
And even then, but think about what that breeds. I mean, that fundamentally tenure as a professor breeds all types of complacency, all types of, right.
I guess good for them maybe, but I don't know,

maybe, maybe not if they have a sense of wanting to continue to grow as human beings and contribute. I don't know that it's even good for them.
So I shared that with them and I said, instead, imagine if instead the language shifted that your relationship with this problem shifted and said, I need to figure out how to demonstrate value in my role every day. Imagine if we went from my enthusiasm is dependent on knowing my job is safe to I'm going to enthusiastically figure out how to demonstrate value in what I do every day.
And I said to my go, dude, I'm a coach. I'm an executive coach with no credentials, by the way, a college dropout, a plumber.
Like, you know, I don't have a degree in anything. I've got no credentials in this work.

Literally the only way that my job is safe is if every single time I'm on a podcast, in a coaching session, or I'm on stage, that every minute is the experience of some value that they cannot get somewhere else. If I'm focused on anything else about what I'm getting or what they're not giving me or anything else, I'm focused in the wrong place.
The only thing I can focus on is how can I be of such extraordinary value every single minute, every single hour when I'm doing what I do, that this person can't imagine life without me. So I listen to hear what their language is revealing about their relationship with their reality.
And then in that, that's the opportunity to help reframe. And I think I listen better than damn near anyone.
And that's where I'm able to deliver the most value. And Tommy, it's funny because in all the years, everybody that's ever asked me to coach them or teach them or train them in anything, not one person has ever requested coaching, training, or teaching and how to be a better listener? Yeah.
Well, you bring up something so interesting because I got a question for you. And listening is how to win friends and influence people is my shrine.
It's amazing what you can do when you walk in a room and ask questions. It's amazing what you could do with a client's perception when you could genuinely make eye contact and say, wait a minute, how old is your dog? And they're excited because that's what their joy is.
If you could peel back the onion. And it's such a powerful skill.
The most powerful skill of any is listening and it's active listening. I was on a call a couple of weeks ago and I'm actually talking to a speech.
I'm opening up with this at Pantheon is one of my guys service to sales, right? Whether it's you're selling a hot water heater, you go to service and you sell a new hot water heater. We call that an A1 gross close rate.
And we've got a guy at 40%. So four out of 10 houses he goes to on a service call, he sells a new door.
And the guy said, I believe in new doors. I just, why would I slap lipstick on this pig? He's like, it's a beautiful door.
They wanted it. It's 40% of their curve up pill.
It's the best ROI. And I said, Roger, would you be willing to share your phone number? Because you are just so excited.
You're so passionate. You're so successful.
You just bought a house. It seems like you're living your best life.
I think other people would want to engage you. Would you be open to that? And he said, I would love to share and learn where people are coming from and help them see through my lens on some of this stuff.
And I said, okay, here, I'm going to put your cell phone on this. It was an interview.
I do two interviews a week and we broadcast it to the entire company. And guess how many people called him? Zero.
And as a leader, I'm sitting here going, how could I be? I don't want to jam it down their throats. I genuinely want them to want his smile, the way that he's excited, the way that his wife is engaged, his kids know what he's doing.
He's got accountability at home. He's got accountability at work.
He's got a brotherhood and a sisterhood. He's got the love at home.
And I want that for everybody. And I'm thinking, man, I failed.
But my point of that story on stage is going to be, I'm going to give you guys some things that I've learned through trial and error, whether that's how I got branded. You know, we spent $30,000 on a brand, which was a fart in the wind for what it did for us.
But how many of you guys are really willing to make that phone call to Roger? How many of you guys are really, this is real. But I think I'm looking at myself going, what could I have done to help them take action? Other than force it down their throat and say, you have to call Roger.
We set a time on your calendar. But then they're not engaged.
They're like, I got to be here because they said I had to be. So I think this is a beautiful kind of space to really bring our conversation together today.
I've discovered that mandatory coaching is the least effective version of coaching that I've ever been a part of. I won't even engage in it.
I was just sharing this the other day. It's taken me two and a half years to get on a regular coaching cadence with half of the executive team at Service Titan.
The reality is that it was one conversation at a time in which I was able to demonstrate value to eventually where people started seemingly wanting to share that information with each other, share what it was and build a reputation. And that's just the reality of what it was.
And I didn't like it. I didn't enjoy it.
It drove me crazy because most organizations that bring me in are clamoring for my coaching. And here I found myself brought in, but then having to prove my coaching just the way that the culture was at the time that I got introduced my track record, whatever it was, I had to prove myself.
There's realities in that. So I think that that's something to keep in mind when it relates to your conundrum here, you know, like people have to to want it it is true that people have to want it

the other thing though is watch when you're on stage you're gonna see this back to our desire to be right when do people nod their heads when you're speaking and they're in the audience when do you see people nod their they agree with you when they fucking agree with you right and so what What are they doing?

They're confirming through you

that the thing that they already think is right the thing that they're already doing is right and so i know when i'm speaking and when i'm it's not that i don't want people to nod and to acknowledge like oh yeah that's true but I want to make sure that those nods and acknowledgements about something being true are in something that they're learning, not that they already know. Because the more people are sitting there nodding their heads going, oh yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that.
Yep. That's absolutely.
Oh, I do that. Then the less effective my talk was all it did was create confirmation bias.
The things I already believe and think he's saying, therefore I like this guy. And so that's where, you know, to the previous point about Bradley, like, yeah, you do have to be fucking controversial, but you don't have to do it for controversy sake.
You do it because you're willing to challenge, I believe, and who am I? I've you know 1500 people that follow me on instagram i think he has like you know 500 000 or whatever so he's got he's got stats i've got beliefs i don't know which one's going to be more effective in the end well you believe a lot of things keith i would say you believe a lot of things controversial i bet you if I asked you right now how you feel about four Trump indictments, you'd probably say, well, that's not my expertise, but here's the way I feel. You'd probably say men are not created the same as women.
I'd guess that if you were to call a babysitter right now, you wouldn't call the first 16-year-old guy. You'd probably call a gal.
And those are things that people don't talk about that are controversial. You're damn right.
And I, and every one of them, I think, I suspect I would have nuance in them that would be controversial to both sides of whatever the current, both sides see the argument as too. And cause I love to live in that area of examining everything for what it is.
And so I've got these beliefs and they're controversial because I want to challenge people in what their current beliefs are. Because if a belief doesn't shift, nothing changed.
Beliefs are what drive our actions. People know what to do in order to create the results that they want.
It's the fact that they don't have a genuine belief under the surface that's generating their actions. That's why they don't do it.
And so back to this idea of, of this amazing team member and, you know, the idea like of giving out Roger's number and how many people are going to call him. And the reality is that those people would have been calling him to find out what they don't know and what they're doing wrong.
And nobody wants to do that because we're not wired to do that. And so this guy's performing at this level most people this is what most people do they make up stories to disqualify him oh he's not ethical he's selling people something they don't need he's probably getting better leads oh he lives in a different part of the country we don't have that same budget and they'll create right on right there and so they'll they'll create and they create every story imaginable why because they want to make him wrong because that makes them right you need to use that you probably already done everything on stage but that literally hits home so much for contractors is the dispatcher doesn't like me enough.
I'm in a bad area. It's Christmas time.
Biodynamics, inflation, Russia, China, whatever it is, it's scapegoating. Scapegoating is a powerful consideration.
Scapegoating is this idea of creating a sacrificial offering, right? That's where that comes from, from the idea of sacrificing a goat. That's where that term was born.
I believe, I think I'm spot on on that. And it was like this medieval, you know, idea of like, we're going to sacrifice this goat to take away what's happening to us.
And that's exactly what this premise is, but it's a protection. It's a way of protecting ourselves because if I can make those things true, then I don't have to look at what it is that I don't know or where it was that I was wrong.
And you opened with this beautiful analogy that if you squeeze an orange, you get orange juice. And that if you squeeze somebody, you're going to get their truth that comes out of them.
And that's their beliefs. And I have a phrase that I think I picked up along the way.
I forget who shared. It might've been Brad Caseby or somebody, but we talked about this.
When people have a disproportionate reaction to something that I say or do, or something that somebody says or does, that means that they just got poked in the beliefs. And when we get poked in the beliefs, what we tend to do, because now we're upset, we'll look outside of ourselves at what it was that they did or the way that they did it and how they did it wrong.
And that wasn't it. It shouldn't have been done that way because that's goes against, and they disrespected me.
And then we create all these stories around it, thinking that whatever it was that they did is what caused you to react that the way that you did, instead of looking inside of yourself, I'll say it this way, instead of looking inside of myself to say, what is it in me that that person just poked? What is it that's old in me, that's unresolved in me, that that person just saying that thing caused me to have an emotional reaction? What is it that that person just said that caused me to give them so much power that they can control how I feel? But we don't want to take that look inside, so we make it about them and we make them wrong or that wrong or those circumstances. The reason we sacrifice that goat.
So we never have to look at the real reason why. And I think that's almost the beautiful analogy and scapegoating, because now if you think about it, it is mystical bunch of bullshit.
The hard work is to look inside and go, what is it that I'm wrong

about? What is it in my belief system that's causing me to feel this way, react this way, and give away my power? Where is it that I just got poked in ways that I feel uncomfortable with? And if we had the ability consistently to do that work, we would grow at exponential rates. Fuck 10x.
Yeah, you could grow unimaginable.

I think from my perspective, as wanting to become a more influential, persuasive, effective persuader and leader. It's the way that, you know, I've been studying comedians.
And the way that they do things, the best of the best, they're just very effective, because they use real life. It's funny.
It's real life. Really trying to think, what could I have said that gets people on board? That's not my direction, but it's better for them.
I could be more effective in my communication. And I could have said something along the lines of, and I don't know if this would be effective, but I didn't know most of the answers.
And so I had to learn from people that are successful, more successful than me. You look at what I've spent time with Ken Haynes.
I spent time with Leland, Ken Goodrich, Keegan. I've been around the country studying HVAC, plumbing, searching for the answers,

being the dumbest guy in the room. And all I'd ask you to do is have an open mind.
But I don't know if that's effective. This is what I'm working on, is getting people to take the action that will help them for what their goals are.
Yeah. So here's what I would say.
what I hear you doing when you share that, right?

And again, people aren't even necessarily consciously having this experience. But what I hear you doing is you're convincing people why they should listen to you.

Or Roger.

Right? Or Roger. Right? We're trying to convince.
And anytime we're trying to convince somebody, we're usually in a pretty unsuccessful space. right? When we're trying to convince people to think differently or do something differently, it typically doesn't work.
And even at its best, I mean, the effort to say, look, I was in this spot and now I'm here. So the problem with that is it still already elevates you to a superior space.
And so, I mean, I guess the way that I would say it is instead of, you know, trying to convince people from what you've learned, right? Again, this goes back to now I'm going to teach you, even if it is your own journey and you humble yourself in the story by saying I was the dumbest guy in the room and all this stuff. You're still wildly fucking successful, Tommy.
And so now you're teaching. Now, I think you should continue to do that because you're damn good at it and you have learned a lot and i think because of just your status alone a lot of people are willing to listen but if you want to start to capture the group that's not willing to listen that's what i want then what you need to do i believe differently is start to share what you don't know, what you're currently struggling with and where you find yourself consistently challenged from a place of genuine vulnerability, not trying to demonstrate vulnerability, but actually sharing the parts of life that scare the fuck out of you.
The parts of yourself that scare the bejesus out of you. The most powerful thing I heard you say in this podcast today was, I know I should probably do that work, but I'm scared to do it.
And for me, that moment was the most authentic version of you I got to get because you showed me something that didn't make you look good and wasn't a story of your success, but a story of your fear that currently exists, meaning you haven't conquered it yet. No, I want to continue to learn from you all the things you've conquered because it's incredible.
But what I'm most excited about is what it is that you're currently working to conquer and where you're challenged. And make myself vulnerable.
And I'm going to do that. I'm going to really, really let this digest.
You know, Keith, I bought the same jacket from Minnesota, the one that you wore on stage. And I wore it on stage last week with a thousand people.
And I just want to say this to you. I want to open up your mind a little bit and I know you probably got to get going here.
So Scott McCain said I would never ever wear that color jacket again on stage. But yet most people came and asked me where I got that jacket.
And what I've learned from this,

and the reason I'm mentioning this, is I promise you, no matter what, you're not going to make everybody happy. There's not every single mind you could open up, their souls, their hearts, their emotions.
And I believe I want to do the best I can and have, if anything, learn from myself as well and get my message across and make it effective because hopefully it helps people. I mean, ultimately, the best thing I could ever receive is when somebody says, I'm closer than my wife than ever.
I'm at my daughter's soccer games. I'm a better father.
And I show up for my people. That's better than $100,000 at this point in my career.
So, but I'm learning now that I'm not going to make everybody happy. And I'm going to continue to wear that jacket because I really, really like that jacket.
You know, does that make sense? I just know I can't please everybody. And I agree with you though, coming from a point of vulnerability and letting them know that I'm human and letting them know that we all go through things different just because we're where we're at doesn't mean there's not a lot of issues and there's not coping with a lot all the time i love that story i love the connection and i'm halfway to the takeaway with you but i find myself in in a disagreement okay but I think it's because both things can be true at the same time.
So first of all, on a very vain note, you got to make sure you got a good bronze going to wear that jacket. Your tan has to be popping.
All right. You can't wear a light brown on stage if your tan isn't popping.
All right. So just keep that in mind.
Now, with that said, and that's a little reminder that context matters too. Like the details matter, but I believe the saying came from a rabbi,

even where this one is stored so deeply in my mind and heart because it resonated so dearly

with me, but it was something along the lines. It was a movie that I saw and he said,

you'd be a fool to believe you could change the world and a coward to not try.

When I hear you share with me that you're not going to make everybody happy, that you're not going to make like, yeah, I get that.

You're not going to capture every mind in the room.

I fucking get that.

I get that as I'm not a fool to believe I can do that. But I think I'd be a coward to not try.
Makes sense. And I agree with that.
You don't go into it and say, there are times that I find myself doing that, Keith. I say, listen, this message isn't for everybody.
There's only a few people in here that are going to take action. In fact, when I talk to the group, you know, my coworkers, I say, this message isn't for everybody.
One of you guys are going to break through a glass ceiling today. And I know some of you guys say, I repeat myself, we talk about the same things.
But someone, last week, a guy on my interview that's playing today said, dude, I got so sick of you saying write down your goals. I fucking started doing it.
He goes, I just every week, every mojo call, every day, where are you writing down goals? Who have you showed them to? He goes, I finally did it. And he goes, I want to do 85,000 indoor sales this month.
I'm at 92. And that doesn't excuse anything, but I agree with you.
I should not go into this saying, you guys are, most of you won't pay attention. Because it's kind of condescending to walk in and say, keep this message.
But it's kind of antagonistic. It's kind of like, fuck you, I'm going to listen.
Part of me says that maybe getting controversial or getting you know antagonizing people will get them to maybe pay attention but i'm not robert ke or robert chadini i wish i was because he probably have a more effective way to do it than i do he does and you're referencing influence and it's funny i was thinking the same thing that you just were and you know i mean, I mean, I think that's where we do have the opportunity, but just, just hearing you say that, look, I realized that, I mean, recognizing that this message may not be for you right now is, is I, I, I can get that. And I can get behind that.
And I certainly wouldn't walk in a room and say one thing or the other necessarily out loud so much as I would speak from that place. And, you know, this is

the part that I guess I just, I would share

and this will be

my conclusion. I feel like I gave you three

fucking killer conclusions to end on and we kept

going. I was trying to give you your perfect wrap

up story.

I can do this all day

with you because it's fascinating.

This is just a conversation.

And the fact is that you're an enjoyable conversation. and it doesn't feel like it's been 15 minutes and that's a superpower of yours.
Thank you. Dude, that means so much to me.
And I love that. I would do the same.
I'm already late for a meeting that I'm not going to not be too much later for at this point, which is its own piece. But, you know, I think this is the thing that I would say, like, if you know anything about

my story, you know, you know, the role my dad plays in it.

And my dad was a was an English teacher for 35 years in Arlington, Massachusetts.

And he was a public school, seventh grade English teacher.

And when I was in high school, I got picked up by the Arlington Legion baseball team,

which meant that I ended up playing with a whole bunch of his former students.

One of the players on that team, our third baseman, Tommy Walsh, who'd gone to play Harvard

hockey, incredible athlete, great kid. He was dating a girl named Eileen Leahy at the time.

It was a fantastic high school couple. We were about three games into the season,

and Eileen Leahy said to Tommy, hey, what do you think of that new kid, Keith Mercurio?

And Tommy said, I really, I like him.

He's a good guy.

And she said, yeah, I think he's a good guy too.

And Tommy paused.

He told me this story later.

He paused and he looked at her and he said, have you even met him?

And she said, no, but he's Mr. Mercurio's son.

So he must be a great guy.

And see, this is the legacy my dad had has as a teacher and this man i mean tommy for 35 years he taught seventh grade 13 year old public school students these are the worst fucking people on earth. All right.
And for 35 years, my dad never complained about a student. And see, this is the thing.
I would continue to meet students who told me that my dad was their favorite teacher that they ever had. Right.
And they got C's in his class. One of them even got a D in his class and still declared he was the greatest teacher they ever had.
Here's why. My dad didn't raise and lower his standards for anyone.
The English language was a standard to be upheld in and of itself. But what he also did is that he saw people for all that they could possibly be.
He saw them in unlimited possibility. He saw them as big.
And because he saw them as big and held them to a consistent standard, people got to experience themselves as big regardless of how they graded. And, you know, this is the genius of my dad because he didn't even, along the way realized when he was correcting papers, he didn't want to correct people in red ink anymore because red made them feel that they were wrong.
And so he started using blue ink or black ink in contrast to whatever ink they used to show them what they could have done better or differently. so you know this is this is a man who mastered and was the greatest teacher I've ever known.
And now, you know, he is riddled with Alzheimer's and can barely formulate a sentence or a thought in the language he mastered. You guys got him in a good spot, though, to you and your sister.
Yeah, and he hates it. Tells us every day how much he hates it.
I used to tell the story about how he never complains about anything, but he went and fucked up that ending of my keynote because he complains about everything now. But he does still continue to be the greatest teacher I've ever known because each day I realize that if I see him for all of his possibility, I find levels of grace and patience I never knew I had.
Well, listen, I'll tell you this. He sounds like an amazing guy.
And the fact that you got to spend time and get to know your father and see him for everything he is is an amazing accomplishment within itself so fair beautifully said yeah thank you for that he is he's still a great guy still a great guy he's still in there and i think that's you know that's what he reminds me is just you got to keep seeing what's truly inside of people and listening for what's truly inside of them and if we can unlock that then we get to unlock all of the possibility that you you want to see in others but it doesn't happen by convincing them happens by seeing it powerful and you know i'm meeting at all end here is we're meeting all the management in flagstaff and i have a lot of things my main thing I'm going to be discussing is I can take a really good canvas and make it into something special. I'm a talent scout.
If I like somebody and I'm having a great conversation, I don't care if they're a dishwasher. They'll get a job working with us.
And people say, I can't find anybody. Great.
They don't apply. But you're looking in the unemployment line.
It's all around us. There's acres of diamonds all along the path.
And I find that in people. And I don't want to train you exactly how to relate to people.
I like people that have those innate traits already. So, you know, you're going to be at the Freedom Event.
We're going to see you at Pantheon, Keith. You're helping a lot of people.
You are with some of the most powerful executives. I mean, Aura and Vahe.
I was just on the phone with Vahe the other day. I was on the phone with Aunt Anmol.
I love service type. I mean, I love service type.
They look out for me. They really do.
I feel like they really, really cherish our relationship. And it's with the people, not the company.
And the people are who I'm attracted to. They're the ones that keep me coming back.
They're the ones that they take my phone call. I talked to animal at nine 30 Pacific time the other night and he took my phone call and we talked for half an hour and that's what means the world to me.
So whatever you're doing over there is working. Well, I'll just say, thank you.
Thank you. Those are extraordinary people.
The three people you just mentioned, extraordinary people. That executive team, extraordinary.
And the degree to which they are, I mean, the values which they lead are so clear.

It's an honor to get to witness the conversations that go on behind the scenes of all of them.

And I'm very proud to get to be a part of it.

So thank you, Tommy.

I can't wait to see you, brother.

I'll be in touch with you.

Get your meeting.

And thank you for taking the time today.

I got a lot out of this.

Love you, my homie.

Love you too, buddy.

Take it easy. Have a great day.
Bye. See ya.
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