Effective Customer Relationship Management Strategies to Scale Your Home Service Business

Speaker 1 That is so important to me. We actually put it into our scorecard for the KPIs for the way that the technicians get paid.

Speaker 1 There's three KPIs that we track: one is revenue, one is the number of reviews, and then a closing ratio. And the technicians can elevate their bonus rate by getting more reviews.

Speaker 1 And there's a certain threshold. We have a minimum that everybody has to get at least eight five-star reviews per month.

Speaker 1 And that is like to earn eight five-star reviews because we teach lots of people how to do WoW service, provide five-star service, and we want them to earn the reviews.

Speaker 1 That way, like when a customer reads and they're genuine, it doesn't seem like, you know, something got paid to give their review. You know, we want them to be real, actual, authentic reviews.

Speaker 1 And then the reviews are good feedback too when you mess up. So they're really important.

Speaker 2 Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields like marketing, sales, hiring, and leadership to find out what's really behind their success in business.

Speaker 2 Now, your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello.

Speaker 2 Before we get started, I wanted to share two important things with you. First, I want you to implement what you learned today.

Speaker 2 To do that, you'll have to take a lot of notes, but I also want you to fully concentrate on the internet. So, I asked my team to take the notes for you.
Just text notes, N-O-T-E-S, to 888-526-1299.

Speaker 2 That's 888-526-1299, And you will receive a link to download the notes from today's episode. Also, if you haven't got your copy of my newest book, Elevate, go check it out.

Speaker 2 I'm going to share with you how I attracted and developed a winning team that helped me build a $200 million company in 22 states. Just go to elevateandwin.com forward slash podcast to get your copy.

Speaker 2 Now, let's get into the interview.

Speaker 2 All right, guys, welcome back to the Home Service Expert. Today's going to be really fun because we got Anthony Cafania on here.

Speaker 2 He's an expert in plumbing, home service innovation, business management. He's located in Rancho, Kakamunga, and he started the business in 2009.

Speaker 2 And Anthony is the founder and CEO of All City Plumbing. He started the company in the Great Recession and successfully led his team through tough economic times.

Speaker 2 Today, All City Plumbing has approximately 90 employees, 80 bands, and generates over $20 million in annual revenue.

Speaker 2 The company has received the Angie's List Super Service Award for three years in a row. He kills it on the review game, Yelp five out of five, which is very difficult to do.

Speaker 2 In the last six months, he's expanded into Orange County. Four months ago, he went into LA County.
So he's done this primarily in one location. Anthony, it's a pleasure to have you on today.

Speaker 3 Oh, thanks so much, Tommy. I've been listening to you for the last four years.

Speaker 1 I really look forward every week to listening to your podcast.

Speaker 1 And it truly is an honor to be on your show. You've definitely helped inspire me and motivate me over the years.

Speaker 1 So I just want to say thank you no thank you man listen i put that out there it's just as much for me to learn the people i get on the podcast i'm always taking notes in fact before we got started i just sent a voice note to all my managers about some of the review game we were talking about but the way i like to get started is why don't you introduce yourself tell us what it was like in 2009 a little bit about the business what you learned throughout the years what were the biggest game changers and what the future looks like yeah so what it was like in 2009 was well prior to that i was working for a company that was really busy and we were just going call after call after call and then the great recession happened at this time i'm a 25 year old kid i don't have a clue what a recession is i didn't study that in high school or junior college so it was just happening and it slowed the company down by that time i had lots of friends community and other companies were slowed down so i had this great idea where it was like hey if i'm going to be broke i might as well be broke working working for myself.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I went and just got my license and got a van and just got it going. So that's pretty much what it was like.
It was a struggle. For the first five years, I definitely struggled.
I stayed the same.

Speaker 1 It was like Groundhog Day. And then, you know, I had that breaking point and things started changing for me.

Speaker 2 So.

Speaker 2 Tell me a little bit about 20 million. You know, a lot of people listen to this podcast and they're like, well, we don't want to talk about 200 million.
We don't want to talk about a billion.

Speaker 2 We need to understand the stuff that gets to 5 million and then 10 million. What were some of the mistakes and what were some of the aha moments?

Speaker 1 Yeah, so I definitely made so many mistakes. I mean, it would take more than one podcast to talk about that.

Speaker 1 But, you know, one of the things I was saying is success is going from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm.

Speaker 1 And I can say, once I started going, I definitely went a good five, five years straight, just going from one problem to the other and losing no enthusiasm, just going, going, going.

Speaker 1 And that was like for five years in a row. I was like more vans, vans, more trucks, more all this and that.
But I definitely hit a breaking point.

Speaker 1 And I ended up in the middle of two real major lawsuits. And that definitely shocked and broke my little world.
And I wasn't able to, you know, live that quote in real life.

Speaker 1 I definitely took a couple steps back and I was like, damn, this hurts.

Speaker 1 I don't know if I answered your question all the way, but

Speaker 4 well, yeah, there's lawsuits and that's in California.

Speaker 2 It's prevalent there. There's a lot of mistakes that happen, but what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right?

Speaker 2 So if you don't mind kind of putting more of an explanation, what were some of the things going on with the lawsuits?

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're still ongoing. I mean, if you were to lay down the top five lawsuits that you could possibly get into, two of the ones I'm in is still actively going on.

Speaker 1 As far as the doubling, that's why I love listening to these shows and that's why I listen to them and they helped me so much. One of the things that helped us double one year was joining Nexstar.

Speaker 1 There's just no way, that's one thing a recommendation when you're smaller, and we still are a baby company, but you know, when you're taking the baby steps, joining a best practice organization, you just have to do it.

Speaker 1 Cause how else are you going to learn accounting? Like before I joined Nextar, a P ⁇ L was something I did once a year that, you know, the accountant. the CPA did in cash accounting.

Speaker 1 And who cares about cash accounting when you're trying to run a business, right? You need accrual accounting.

Speaker 1 And, and I just think that joining a best practice group that's kind of like what's tried and true and joining that they'll show you hey here's your financials you need you know your p l by the 10th of every month here's your kpis

Speaker 1 here's how to build a price book here's your billable hour rate all that stuff i mean just joining a best practice group and wrapping your head around that boom you're gonna double when you're real small just

Speaker 1 hiring a competent digital marketing company and caring about reviews and pumping people up for reviews. So just reviews on a digital marketing company, boom, you're going to double, right.

Speaker 1 And then, um, when you're really small, I think it's tough when you're working out of your garage to have like the highest hiring standards.

Speaker 1 But as you get bigger and more momentum, you know, at least I did, I raised my hiring standards and then I built a better team. And just building a better team, having higher standards, you can double

Speaker 1 hiring a company like

Speaker 1 Service MVP.

Speaker 2 We did that.

Speaker 1 Joe Casera, we started enforcing giving three options. That was a game changer.
Our average ticket skyrocketed, you know, getting your average ticket way up there. Now you can afford more cool stuff.

Speaker 1 And one of the takeaways I'd say is that when you're a smaller contractor, which I still am, but when you're starting off, it doesn't take a whole lot to double, right?

Speaker 1 You know, you put these two or three things into place and then grind it out, pay the price, like work every day, because One thing I hear you say a lot, sweat equity, but like, I mean, come on, if you start a business with no money and no knowledge, like most of us do in the contracting world, it's called you need to work that Ass.

Speaker 1 You Need to Work Every Day, you know, like you started behind the eight ball, grow up and get to work.

Speaker 4 Well, another thing is delayed gratification, right?

Speaker 2 You don't go out the day the business starts making money, it tends to like, we deserve this, we deserve that, we need to buy this, we need to get this.

Speaker 2 And it's like, you have no patience with your business. Why not reinvest? Why not make it look beautiful? You couldn't afford new trucks.
Why not reward the company that got you everything?

Speaker 2 And reinvest in yourself. You've done it.
You're out there getting Joker Sara and Next Star, reading books. You listen to the home service expert.
And now you're on here.

Speaker 2 And you've got over 30,000 satisfied customers. The problem is for most people, there's no Nextstar network.

Speaker 2 And actually, one of the things that I'm excited about is I've got an amazing show coming up in November called Freedom.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it's homeservicefreedom.com. And it's going to be a game changer because...
The small guys, the small industries, which was garage doors, they don't have a chance. They don't have anything.

Speaker 2 Next are started in 1991 with Frank Blau.

Speaker 2 And they figured that out over 30 years ago. So I want to give back to the community.
And I think there's a way to have a win-win-win-win-win across the board and create a lot, a lot of millionaires.

Speaker 2 And I don't really talk about this a lot because it's still in process, but it's going to be the end-all be-all of getting your company to be extra profitable.

Speaker 2 accomplishing what you want, not only in your business, but what do you want out of your life? How do you want to be remembered? What kind of legacy do you want to live?

Speaker 2 What kind of parent do you want to be? What kind of child, you know, of your parents do you want to be to them? And I think it goes a lot deeper than just hitting KPIs.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of things that we're going to talk about in freedom that are just going to change things.

Speaker 2 What CRM are you using?

Speaker 3 Uh, right now we're using service titan. Oh, that's another thing.

Speaker 1 I have a friend that is a smaller contractor just starting off. He started about a year ago, and he's had tremendous growth throughout the last year.

Speaker 1 But uh, he showed me pictures of his CRM, and I'm like, dude, what am I looking at? And I just forgot how big of a disadvantage it is to be. I mean, you need a CRM, right?

Speaker 1 If you go from paper, if you go from paper to even the cheapest CRM, you'll get a big lift. So that was one of the things, too.

Speaker 1 I went from paper to a basic cheapie CRM, and then I got a big lift there. But then once I went from the cheapy one to service tightened, I was like, oh my God, all these call tracking numbers.

Speaker 1 I love you. Let's go more here.
Let's go less over here. You know, like once you get that, it's just, wow, you know.

Speaker 4 Well, I make sure to keep my relationship close to R.N.

Speaker 2 Vahe and Ed Moles, the CTO, and Tom Howard's over there. And I always tell them I want to be the beta and alpha of everything.
And I am. And we're helping them grow their business.

Speaker 2 And we've always have. And it's a win-win situation because they know I'll get the word out there.
They know I'll give them criticism. If it doesn't work properly, we'll make it work.

Speaker 2 And it's just a massive machine now. So we've actually had to really do a lot of work on the API.

Speaker 2 uh they came out with their v2 and it's still building before it used to work off of web hoax but i mean i'm pushing them probably harder than anybody else to grow i mean i there's not one week that's gone by in the last six months that i haven't been on the phone or text messaging eight of the people of service type because literally i think it's going to be very hard to catch up to a company like ours and i think with you embracing the technology and asking for more but it takes a lot of time it literally you need dedicated people because Once your KPIs are super dialed in and you could actually get them the next day and train on them.

Speaker 2 Like you get mad at a dog when he shits, like right after you spank him and like you might punish him or something, but you can't do it two months later.

Speaker 2 A lot of people aren't getting their stuff for like, they do their payroll, they count up their paper invoices. It's a month later when they look at it.

Speaker 2 And then they're trying to coach on a month ago. And there's great CRMs.
It's not only service titan. There's a lot of great CRMs out there.
But how do you keep up with it?

Speaker 2 Who would have thought of plumbing garage door HVAC companies on these sophisticated tools?

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, once you have something like Service Titan, you know, there may be some similar to them trying to come up right now, which I think competition is a great thing.

Speaker 1 I know that Sarah is breaking through there. I just saw a post on Facebook that Ken Getterich is an investor.
And I'm like, hell yeah. Because here's the thing.

Speaker 1 Service Titan right now is number one by a gazillion miles. Like they have like no competition, you know? And what's so great is like, I'm like, I don't know.
I haven't fully looked into Sarah.

Speaker 1 I just, you know, when you scroll through Facebook and stuff, and I hope that Sarah becomes like a real player, you know, that means Service Titan isn't going to have to step their game up, which is going to be great for me because I love Service Titan.

Speaker 1 I'm on Service Titan. So the better Service Titan gets, the better I'm going to get, you know.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you know, there's no doubt you got to have competition.

Speaker 2 Competition is amazing because with competition, it breeds innovation.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And there's no doubt that's a fact. And I like having options.
That's why Nextstar doesn't just say, it's not like they say you could only sell Goodman.

Speaker 2 You know, they got partnerships of like two or three choices for everything

Speaker 2 what systems do you have in place to ensure that there's customer satisfaction and you got a good reputation in the community we went through a little bit of this stuff but obviously reviews are important you it's one of the kpis you track on their scorecard you incentivize them to ask for reviews what else do you guys do to really make sure you've got the great reputation out there

Speaker 1 So, I mean, that's kind of like one of our core values is that we're a five-star company, you know, and that's one of the things that's really important to me.

Speaker 1 My reflect on on the team you know it's you know i obviously have a great team to have a good name you have to have a good team but that is so important to me we actually put it into our scorecard for the kpis for the way that the technicians get paid the three kpis that we track one is revenue one is number of reviews and then a closing ratio and the technicians can elevate their bonus rate by getting more reviews and there's a certain threshold we have a minimum that everybody has to get at least eight five-star reviews per month.

Speaker 1 And that is like to earn eight five star reviews because we teach lots of people how to do wow service, provide five star service, and we want them to earn the reviews.

Speaker 1 That way, like when a customer reads and they're genuine, it doesn't seem like, you know, something got paid to give their review. You know, we want them to be real, actual, authentic reviews.

Speaker 1 And then the reviews are good feedback too when you mess up. So they're really important.
But one of the things that that we do now, we kind of go over the top now.

Speaker 1 And we got hundreds and hundreds of reviews every month prior to this, but now we go a little over the top. We have company season tickets to three professional sports teams.

Speaker 1 And whoever gets the most reviews a prior week, they'll earn tickets to a game. Like this week, there was Angel Games.
The guys won club season tickets to Angel Games.

Speaker 1 They won tickets to the Anaheim Ducks. And then we also have tickets to the L.A.
Rams. You know, that's one thing that motivates everybody is to win tickets and they get, you know, great seats.

Speaker 1 And then we celebrate them. We're in a group chat.

Speaker 1 The second a review comes through, we're posting it and celebrating it and it just becomes part of the company culture like it just reviews matter doing a great job and it's just part of the the company dna

Speaker 2 that's absolutely phenomenal that you're able to don't just give money money's great and a lot of people are like reward reward reward give swag let them represent your company when they're at home take them out let them bond with each other let them become great friends sponsored on the company and it's the gift that keeps giving because then they stay, they're happier, they show up, they feel like they're important,

Speaker 2 they feel value, and then they can share. And then you say, take a few pictures.
I want to see what you got. And then it's a recruiting tool.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's a great thought just to do that, but it also is a great thought because you're getting great reviews. It becomes a recruiting tool.
It helps morale. It helps.

Speaker 2 not off-boarding a bunch of employees. There's so many great things that come out of that.
And I love that. Man, the plumbing industry is crazy.

Speaker 2 I mean, hvac i'd say really paved the way for me to be where i'm at today but plumbing's right there aaron gayner was at my house this weekend with eco plumbers

Speaker 2 and he comes in every other week he stays over we we play golden team we whiteboard we do fun stuff and uh i love the plumbing industry because there's a lot of money i mean l dv was part of uh zoom drains one of my biggest best mentors of all time.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 what's evolved over the years that you've seen in the plumbing industry?

Speaker 1 So I definitely think that the plumbing industry is working hard to catch up with the HVAC industry as far as working hard to get their average ticket up.

Speaker 1 And, you know, in my little world over here, there's all kinds of really huge HVAC companies that are now going into plumbing, which is great, you know, because

Speaker 1 When a successful HVAC company gets in the plumbing, that means that they're going to be priced right and they're going to pay right and they're just going to do everything right.

Speaker 1 They're going to pull permits and it's like, yay, you know, the more good competition, it just, it lifts all boats, right? So

Speaker 1 I'm just real thankful that there's a lot of HBOC companies that have been highly successful, you know, moving into

Speaker 1 plumbing.

Speaker 2 I mean, obviously service tighten. So the software, obviously performance pay, the marketing has shifted.
But this leads to my next question.

Speaker 2 You wrote an article, the highlights and strategies to attract Gen Z jobs in the plumbing industry. Why don't you you discuss that?

Speaker 2 Because a lot of people, especially the baby boomers, they're just like they're used to paying more and you work harder. You'll work weekends, you'll work nights, you'll do what I tell you to do.

Speaker 2 But their employees hate Mondays, and the average plumber is like 53 years old or something.

Speaker 2 And I will say, baby boomers probably were smarter as far as how to fix stuff. I mean, they could basically fix anything.
They could take apart something and put in like a washer and fix it. But

Speaker 2 Gen Z and millennials, we're great people.

Speaker 2 I'm right at that edge. And we want to know what's in it for us.
Like, how do we grow in the company? What's our future look like? How do we move up the ladder?

Speaker 2 Is there a chance to get out of the truck? But when you wrote that, what were some of the highlights?

Speaker 1 Well, I got to admit that I didn't write all of that. I have a PR company that helps me write things, you know, because that is written on a higher reading level than I'm able to, right?

Speaker 2 What's the PR company you use?

Speaker 1 So I use a Scorpion Digital Marketing, and they'll find articles to help me get links to the website. And they'll ghost write articles for me.

Speaker 1 They'll give me options like, hey, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? And then I'll pick that.

Speaker 1 And then they have like a million questions and then I answer all these questions. And then after I answer all the questions, they rewrite it for me in a way that makes me sound smarter.

Speaker 1 And then they publish it. I'm just being honest.

Speaker 2 No, it's good. Listen, one of the biggest things they talk about is recognizing your strengths and your weaknesses and double down on your strengths and hire people.

Speaker 2 And why not just 1099 and out to a specialist? You know, I think a lot of the mistakes I've made over the years are: I need a person for that. I need to hire another person for that.

Speaker 2 And when you've got a company that just focuses on one thing and they're the best at it, they've got all the right tools and the software subscriptions. So many times we want to in-house everything.

Speaker 2 And I've seen huge PE companies with three people on their marketing team because they outsource a lot of it. And they're massive.
And they get the best reporting. And they got specialists.

Speaker 2 And that's what's like the most amazing thing. So, do you remember any of the things in the uh Gen Z article that you answered?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, you know, one of the things that I would say is that I just think this is universal throughout the years is that people want to make money and they want to have fun, right?

Speaker 1 You know, people want to be happy, so you know, you want to make money, you want to have fun, and

Speaker 1 I just kind of think that over the years of just employing lots of people, you need to be able to set something up to where people can make a great living within 50 hours a week. I've seen lots of

Speaker 1 team members, you know, go through divorces and just being a technician for a million years, I've seen lots of people kind of go through divorces.

Speaker 1 And I just feel like, you know, making a good living and then working a certain amount of hours so you can somewhat balance out your life is really important.

Speaker 1 But, you know, on the flip side, for me, when you're a business owner, you just need to get it and work every single day. Like if you're, if you're breathing, you should be working.

Speaker 1 And, you know, that's what I think.

Speaker 2 You know, I don't think people know that when they sign up for it.

Speaker 2 And unfortunately, for most Americans that have a business they work to pay the bills and they hardly ever get ahead and i read a book and i recommend it to everybody it's called acres of diamonds and it's a quick read

Speaker 2 and it says you're allowed to make money and money is not the root of all evil it doesn't say that in the bible it says the love of money is the root of all evil right but there's nothing wrong with working your butt off And guess what?

Speaker 2 If anybody else talks shit about business owners that work their butts off, go go start a business and just figure out what's going to make the most amount of money in the least amount of time.

Speaker 2 What's going to change the outcome the most? Like the Dream 100.

Speaker 2 Find 100 clients that'll pay you $1 million a year. There's 100 million.
Earn their business. Work hard to make sure it's right.

Speaker 2 And don't go after the let's make a deal people like we all start out in.

Speaker 1 You do the cheap everything and then you just attract the cheapest customers. That's one thing that helped us, I think, over the years, maintain a good name.

Speaker 1 I did do that for a while, and I noticed a lot of my competitors are doing like the cheap drain thing, but even if you do drain cleaning for $59, you're still going to grab customers that complain about $59.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 $59, it's a lost leaders to get in there and do other things. Like, if I'm a plumber, I'm going in and looking at every single drain.
I'm looking at every single toilet.

Speaker 2 I'm looking at every single faucet. I'm looking at the hot water heater.
I'm giving options. I'm working.
If it were me, I'd be working with your,

Speaker 2 I know this because of my house.

Speaker 2 If I was working on larger houses of wealthy people, I would say, let me see your home warranty and your mortgage insurance because I could actually set an alarm to turn the water off on here.

Speaker 2 If there's a leak, you said you travel a lot. We could hook this up and it'll save you money on your bill.
You'll get the money back by installing this.

Speaker 2 The hot water heaters in Arizona last seven, eight, nine, 10 years. I'll get you a hot water heater that's going to last longer.
That's going to make the temperature better.

Speaker 2 It's going to be more efficient. You're going to save the money in your water bill.
I'm going to work on making sure that, like,

Speaker 2 I would go in there and just give options. Like we talked about, Joker Star says give six options, two of the economical, two mid-range, and two top tier.

Speaker 2 And you'll fall in the fifth one most of the time. And I believe in that.
And you got to be looking at everything and relationships, HOA presidents.

Speaker 2 whether it's home warranty companies or property managers, building the relationships. I think I could make money doing anything, even on those cheap jobs.
It becomes a lead generator

Speaker 2 on the home warranties, right? So there's always a way to do it.

Speaker 3 And I mean, all the jobs are an opportunity.

Speaker 1 No matter what plumbing call you go for, you're getting your foot in the door for bigger opportunities. You know, I just, I've noticed that a lot of people do the loss leader for the dreams.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I definitely understand that. And I implemented that for many years.
But like you said, you just, all the jobs are, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 Even if you're coming out for a drippy faucet, why is the faucet dripping? Is it because of water quality, because of water pressure?

Speaker 1 You know, like 30% of the pressure regulators that we go to on homes are blown out. Like you said, the age of water heaters in California.

Speaker 1 No one really builds a home with a water heater that has a drip pan that can protect the home from water damage. So I teach her texts, like, what do you believe in?

Speaker 1 Like, what's the average life of a water heater? Like, what do you believe in? And if the water heaters exceeded that life, then that's an option that you want to build into.

Speaker 1 So yeah, like it just any plumbing call can lead you into water pressure, water quality, doing the shutoffs, where if you spring a leak and it kills the water.

Speaker 1 Also,

Speaker 1 some of the leak monitoring systems tell you what your incoming water pressure is. There's endless, like any plumbing call can lead into so much because the plumbing systems is huge.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, I definitely agree with everything you said.

Speaker 2 When it comes to recruiting, is there any systems you have in place to help make sure you're getting the best, the best?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So one of the things that has helped us a lot for recruiting has been Facebook and Instagram and, you know, taking our emails and making a lookalike audience and all that good stuff has been important for us.

Speaker 1 And then all the portals, you know, we pay to

Speaker 1 have advertisement on all the portals as far as Indeed and Glassdoor and Monster and all that stuff. But for us, Indeed and Facebook has been the best.

Speaker 1 I kind of think that it's like two-sided, you know, it's like when someone's actually looking for a job, I feel like they go to Indeed a lot in our market.

Speaker 1 But when someone's like has a job, like the people that you'll see them more, you can pull them more through Facebook and Instagram. Like Facebook and Instagram is going to entice people.

Speaker 1 And it's your job to make the grass look a little greener so people look a little more, you know.

Speaker 4 I love it.

Speaker 2 You know, people go to Google and Yelp when they're a customer. People go to Indeed and Glassdoor when they're looking at your company.

Speaker 2 Do you help develop B and C players? Is that something where when you're working with somebody that has a strong will to survive, like to make it for you, that you'll work with them?

Speaker 2 Or what do you do to help bring a B player up to an A player level?

Speaker 1 Yeah, so for me, an A player is just someone that has a good worth ethic and a good attitude.

Speaker 1 So I'm not really thinking in terms of A, B, C, D, F, as far as grades are concerned. You know, it's like, hey, if you have a good attitude and a good worth ethic, you can do freaking anything.

Speaker 1 So what do you want to do?

Speaker 4 How do you motivate them?

Speaker 1 Obviously, you do some cool stuff but on a personal level what do the one-on-ones look like do you have regular one-on-ones are you coaching them do they understand is it like you find something they can work on and really set a goal or how do you handle that yeah so i mean as far as the goals concern we try to look at like what how much money people want to make each month as far as the goal is concerned and then we look at how break it down you know like okay you want to make this much per month you're going to get x amount per calls per day this is what your average ticket would have to look like.

Speaker 1 And then, like, how can we help you get there?

Speaker 1 And if it has to do with money, then I think we do a good job as far as we have weekly meetings and then we have weekly sales meetings. So there's two meetings a week as far as

Speaker 1 you know, going there and learning the sales process, learning from others. We break people up a lot as far as sales is concerned.
We break people up into table groups of five.

Speaker 1 The example you gave was really good. The water heat has exceeded the life expectancy.
You know, how do you present that? How do you sell that water heater?

Speaker 1 If the pressure regulator is blown, so we'll have table groups of five, and they'll go around and then they'll each try to sell the regulator.

Speaker 1 Hey, this thing went bad or this water heater has exceeded the average life and blah, blah, blah. Talked about that.
And they'll try to sell to each one.

Speaker 1 And then, as a table group, they'll pick who did the best job presenting that option and selling that service.

Speaker 1 And then the table group leader will step up and then they'll teach that to everybody else.

Speaker 1 And that's kind of like how everybody learns from each other. And that's that's one thing as far as just like making money is concerned.

Speaker 1 If that was a goal, obviously, people have you know team members that their goal is to get in really good shape.

Speaker 1 And one of the guys I just saw, I went a little while without seeing them, running into him.

Speaker 1 And, you know, he just got into great shape. And everybody has different goals.
You know, some people want to buy a house, some people want to make more money. Some people want to get all buffed up.

Speaker 1 Pretty girl summer ready.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, it's good stuff.

Speaker 2 It's important to help people accomplish their personal goals outside of work. That's what great coaches do is they look outside of just the game.

Speaker 2 And I think it's important for leaders in the home service industry to be doing the same. Do you have any advice that you'd give to business owners who also provide plumbing services?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, my number one advice would be, I mean, if you're

Speaker 1 not even starting a business yet, I would say join a best practice group or right when you start one.

Speaker 1 If you can't afford to start and to join a best practice group when you start you probably shouldn't start so whatever you have to do if you have to work six seven days a week at your current company grind out save money live below your means stack cash whatever you have to do but joining a best practice group is is just essential like you have to do it how else you can learn it like yeah you can go on facebook and dm me right and or i mean i'm not like on some guru group but like if you were to go on facebook and dm me I would look at your profile, check it out and see, okay, you know, like, let me help out this dude over here.

Speaker 1 I wish someone someone would help me but i'm not going to freaking teach you full-blown accounting and then like here's like how you set up your chart of accounts here's your kpis here's what your cost of goods sold you know i mean like maybe i'll go over that maybe not but it's going to be like hey join a best practice group because you'll if you join a best practice group you'll get a coach and

Speaker 1 dedicated to your success and then he'll show you hey you know like this is how you build a price book and this is how you make a profit.

Speaker 1 And so you just need to pay for the service and you you just need to do it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So you learn how to build a price book, how to give options, do service agreements.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, that's not something we've gotten into.

Speaker 2 So CRM setup. What else have you learned from a coach?

Speaker 1 Well, from the business coach that I got when I had,

Speaker 1 or I still am part of Nextstar, that was the first, you know, game changer. Like I said, I didn't understand accounting.

Speaker 1 I just thought, you know, you go to your CPA and then they do cash accounting and then you pay your taxes, right?

Speaker 1 But then once you get a business coach and they start like reshaping your mind, you're like, okay,

Speaker 1 you need to get a P ⁇ L by at least a 10th of every month. The P ⁇ L shouldn't be a surprise.
Like, here's things that you should be looking at prior to that.

Speaker 1 The P ⁇ L, it should just be like something that like to verify things you already know.

Speaker 1 And one of the good things about Nexar is that. Well, when I joined, they would just show you the financials of the top companies in there.

Speaker 1 But now, in order to see the financials of the top companies, you have to show them your financials, which is, I forgot what they call it, which is great.

Speaker 1 But once I joined, and they gave me the financial of the top company, I was like, oh my God, this is what the gross margin is supposed to be.

Speaker 1 Like, this is what my material is supposed to be as a percentage of revenue. I'm like, man, my stuff is all messed up.
You need to start looking at these top companies.

Speaker 1 Like, once you see other companies' PLs, once you see other companies' financials, and the next star has so many members, so it's like, here's what the top companies are doing.

Speaker 1 Now you have like a target. Okay, cool.
If my material is way higher, once you see what's possible, like, oh, that's my coach is a real life human being.

Speaker 1 He showed me the financials of another real company. They're actually doing this.
Okay, cool. We can do this.

Speaker 4 I love that.

Speaker 2 I think it's absolutely phenomenal. I'm going to ask you a few questions to close out a little bit, but I know you had some questions for me.
You wanted to interview me a little bit.

Speaker 2 So let's just do this live on the podcast. What information were you curious about?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so I wanted to say is the question that would really help me a lot for selfish reasons.

Speaker 1 If you can go back to the old Tommy Mellow when you're doing 20 million a year, if you were to like, I saw your Facebook thing with a back to the future, that was awesome.

Speaker 1 The little videos, if that car was real and you can go back to the future to Tommy Mellow at 20 million, like, what would you say? What would you tell Tommy Mellow at 20 million?

Speaker 2 First thing I'd say is make sure that you're only as strong as your weakest link. Make sure you've got the right CFO.

Speaker 2 Make sure your numbers are dead accurate and you understand how to read it. The second thing I would say is don't always hire people.
Try to get lean.

Speaker 2 Try to come up with systems and processes and find the right 1099 contractor.

Speaker 2 Like if it's content writing, find the best content writer possible and just make sure they stay busy and help them get more work and have them take care of you.

Speaker 2 Another big thing I'd say is do the equity incentive program. there's a strike price of whatever you're worth today

Speaker 2 get people vested into your company but use that to attract not a players but a plus plus plus players because you know if the company's at 20 million and you're at 20 it's 4 million let's say you're multiples 10 that's a 40 million dollar company so they come in at 40 million and you give them one percent and it gets to 100 million That 1% of 60 million is $600,000.

Speaker 2 Maybe you could give 2% at VESS. Maybe you do 20% equity incentive program to get everybody.
It not only helps you retain people, but it helps you get the right people in.

Speaker 2 The next thing I'd say is, is make sure you're talking to companies like I did, but at 20 million, I wasn't doing it enough is go visit companies outside of just crossroads, especially HVAC, because, you know, I had a guy come in here a few years ago and said, you don't sell service agreements sending out commissionable techs because they try to sell more.

Speaker 2 That's the only way they make money. You got to get hourly text with a little spiff if they sell something.

Speaker 2 But your goal is to build a fence around the customer, make sure they're taken care of because eventually the system gets old and you replace it. You're building future revenue.

Speaker 2 And I would start hanging out with PE companies and start looking at what they're doing because they're financial engineers.

Speaker 2 They understand how to borrow money better than anybody and they know how to leverage better than anything.

Speaker 2 I would just make sure that I'm around the right people, the right circle of people, and I make sure I have trusted advisors that I could call for anything and try to be the dumbest guy in the room all the time.

Speaker 2 I would invested at 20 million, I would have doubled down and scraped every penny I could to build the best state-of-the-art training center and make sure I've got the best of the best trainers.

Speaker 2 I would do more ride-along forms and I would try it before I buy it, make sure I'm personality profiling every technician.

Speaker 2 I'm actually, instead of recruiting for customers, I'd be recruiting for A-plus players that they're smiling all the time. They got the right attitude of abundance.
They want to win.

Speaker 2 They're younger and if you give them 10 more years they're probably going to be a billionaire somewhere you see this entrepreneurial spirit the people that and they're part of the business they can earn equity in the business like they realize there's what's in it for them i would start looking at how do i motivate people to win their goals and their dreams and make it so that and i would just whiteboard and say if they win and they buy this house and they were actually able to save 80 grand in a year, what does that mean for me?

Speaker 2 And make it so they win and then reverse engineer what I'd have to charge and how I would have to pay so that I have a win-win. Your whole paradigm shifts after a certain time.

Speaker 2 And then I would say probably slow down on the growth of other markets. Try to take serious market share per market rather than just have a popsicle stand in every location.

Speaker 2 And that comes from senior management. That comes from good one-on-ones.
That comes through leadership training. That comes from great storytelling.
That comes from finding people that care.

Speaker 2 and success leaves clues there's attributes within some leaders that i could recognize now that i didn't back then that i didn't know i just i would fill a role to fill a role because i was growing so fast and i didn't realize i needed to keep more of the money of the revenue i would say don't worry as much about revenue as i do about bottom line i probably tell myself try to hit 25 before you decide to grow Because if you can't hit 25%, there's no point of growing if you're at 7% in eight markets.

Speaker 2 You can do the same in a big market at 25%.

Speaker 2 That's some of the basics. I think making sure you've got call tracking numbers.
And I mean, I would tell myself a whole lot of stuff. I'd say, get super lean, buy new trucks.

Speaker 2 Don't use used trucks because, quite frankly, used trucks break down. There's no tax advantages.
It's not the image you want to portray to your clients when you pull up.

Speaker 2 If you got a cheap, broken down truck, they want a cheap job. That's the customers you're going to attract.

Speaker 2 I would say do more things outside of work.

Speaker 2 Have the people break bread with each other and become best friends and make it fun. Don't make it so it's dreadful.
Don't say, don't have this attitude of, if I don't do it, it won't get done right.

Speaker 2 Then you're not hiring the right people. If you don't like anybody's ideas, you probably don't have the right people.

Speaker 2 If somebody's ideas don't inspire you and motivate you and you don't get excited, then you don't have the right leadership staff. You didn't hire the right people probably because you're too cheap.

Speaker 2 You didn't do any equity. You don't have anything what's in it for them.
You don't really care enough. And I started thinking, thinking, I want a business that's going to win even when I'm not here.

Speaker 2 And that's Built to Last by Jim Collins. I would have read that book and I would have

Speaker 2 probably read more books,

Speaker 2 which was hard to do back then because it was a lot of firefighting.

Speaker 2 And there was a lot of people I kept on because I felt like I owed them, even though they really didn't respect me the way I respected them.

Speaker 2 And I enabled them to kind of act a certain way because they'd been here so long and I got comfortable and I was afraid to lose somebody.

Speaker 2 But every time I did and I pulled the trigger, we grew dramatically. And I just realized my comfort zone was the problem that we didn't make leaps and bounds growth.

Speaker 2 And I felt like I owed somebody to let them do things that were not helping the company grow and didn't have the same growth attitude I have.

Speaker 2 So those are some of the things that I could go on and on and on. But what questions do you have about that?

Speaker 1 Dude, that's good thankfully this is recorded i'm gonna have to play that a few times to fully digest everything that you said and i really appreciate that you know so i guess another question that i would have is i just finished reading um elevate well i read your first book amazing and then you know i just finished reading your second one when did you start thinking like that like it was a great read i love it and i and i definitely

Speaker 1 there's at least three things i wrote down i'm like dude we're taking massive action on this joint like three gems, like right away. And there was other good gems, but like, when did your brain start?

Speaker 1 Everybody needs to win. When did this happen?

Speaker 2 Well, the whole paradigm shift changed quite a bit through COVID. When people started volunteering to give their PTO and take pay deductions, we didn't have to use all that stuff.

Speaker 2 We were fortunate enough to make it through that standing on our feet. But I realized how expensive it was for turnover.
And I realized hiring a C player instead of an A player.

Speaker 2 and i started to look at just the the variance between a top guy and a bottom guy and looking at the attitude and paying more attention to like who these people are what do they do what inspires them

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 you start to realize that in your interviews and you start to realize success leaves clues and i've got a lot of data that i can look at now and really study it

Speaker 2 and instead of going and trying to low cut my vendors, I say, look, how can I help you? What markets are you struggling in?

Speaker 2 My product mix is some of the best, and they make their highest margins on the best products. So, I know there's a win-win, and I ask them what their three and five-year goal.

Speaker 2 I try to align myself to let them win too. And then I realize it's not only the CEO, it's there's managers, and you got to get everybody's buy-in, right?

Speaker 2 You got to go in there, and there's a lot of people that don't like change, so you need to convince them.

Speaker 2 And there's gatekeepers, and sometimes you can't get through to the right person, so you got to go through the gatekeeper and earn their trust. And you know, the mindset now is I'm pretty content.

Speaker 2 I've hit some really astronomical things for my life that I never thought were possible. And now I believe that I could do so much more.

Speaker 2 I'm still at an age where I've just, I feel like I'm in the fetal stages, but it seems so much easier now. And I wasn't comfortable on stage now.
It's very easy for me to get on stage.

Speaker 2 There were certain things I knew. I didn't want to hire somebody to speak for me.
They didn't make sense. So I knew I would have to grow.
And that's really what I took the time to do.

Speaker 2 And I just made myself, I got comfortable being uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 And as much as great things are going, I still got a lot of work to do. And the day that I say I've made it, I mean, the company's doing well, but I don't feel like I'm not even close to being done.

Speaker 2 And there's something that money just is not going to just do for me. I'm not going to go to Hawaii and just disappear forever.

Speaker 2 I feel like as I continue to sharpen and sharpen and sharpen the tools in my tool chest,

Speaker 2 I'm capable of doing anything and everything I put my mind to, but I can't do it alone. And I need an amazing team.

Speaker 2 And if they feel like they're part of it and they win, I know my dreams will come true if their dreams come true. And that was designed.

Speaker 1 Yeah. One of the things that, you know, I've followed you over the years and it's just been amazing what you've been able to accomplish.
And you've been like my North Star that has helped motivate me.

Speaker 1 I would say many years ago, I just accepted the fact that I'm never going to retire.

Speaker 1 Like I have some type of like DNA where I feel weird if I'm not working and i was just curious because you've accomplished so much and you can easily retire i'm sure if you want to where does that come from i mean what do you think about that you think you're always going to be grinding and pushing the envelope and going forward well i'll tell you this it gets easier the better people i get the it gets easier and i'm still having a lot of fun I put together on the airplane yesterday a plan what my life is going to look like in five years.

Speaker 2 I actually read this book. I read three books in the last two days and all of them were absolutely phenomenal.
And one of the books that I read was called Vivid Vision.

Speaker 2 And I read it years ago, but it's by Cameron Harold.

Speaker 2 And he talks about one of the later chapters. It's not only a vivid vision for your business and a plan and a budget and a growth strategy, but he talks about for yourself.

Speaker 2 So I got a... a document here

Speaker 2 and I called it what does life look like in four years what's my schedule? How much am I working? How much am I vacation? How much time am I focusing on?

Speaker 2 And last week, I had Andy Elliott on here, and he says, I took this out of Facebook and I posted this, or I put it into my Google Drive. As a man in my house, every day, I have five main goals.

Speaker 2 Number one, to grow every day as a godly man. Number two, to make my children proud of me.
I want to be their hero. Number three, to protect my family every second of the day.

Speaker 2 Number four, to provide for them and give them a dream life. Number five, to make my wife proud proud of me.
I want her to admire her man.

Speaker 2 And that's some of the stuff. Look, it's not only business.
I want to move people's lives. And I still get excited.
I'm not done yet. I haven't lost any passion.

Speaker 2 So my biggest goal is, yes, I want to start doing things eventually.

Speaker 2 You know, I love Elon Musk. He's helping people in third world countries.
He's helping them connect to the internet and learn more and get out of poverty. He's working on going to Mars.

Speaker 2 He's working on clean energy, you know, the solar stuff. He's got satellites.

Speaker 2 It's crazy, everything, the rockets that return to where they came from and just reloads them, which he's launching more satellites in the sky than all the countries combined. And

Speaker 2 I think there's a bigger purpose, but I'm still having fun in the home service niche. I don't think that's ever got, it's a piece of me now, but it doesn't define me.

Speaker 2 So I partnered with PE and I rolled a lot. I still own half of the company.
I'm the CEO and I've got a job to do that I signed up for and I'm still having fun doing it.

Speaker 2 And by the way, I'm learning a ton every day.

Speaker 2 And as I sharpen these tools and learn financial engineering and learn how to use other people's money and learn, you know, I still got to work on that document. I got to, I think I'm going to Idaho.

Speaker 2 We're going to be building a house out in Sand Point.

Speaker 2 It's got great fishing, great golf, great winter sports.

Speaker 2 But more importantly, it's going to be fun to bring some of the people I work with, some of my friends, some of my colleagues, some of my mentors and just spend time with them i i was with my family on easter we were playing a lot of euchre and having some fun and it's like i can't do that all day i'm not into work-life balance because i have fun at work but i like to fish i think what i'm going to do is just

Speaker 2 in four to five years life's going to look a lot different but i'm still going to be tommy the problem is with me is i'm going to continue to grow

Speaker 2 and a lot of people around me are going to say you've changed and i'm going to say you just didn't change. That's the problem.

Speaker 2 You stayed still. You didn't want to learn.
You didn't ask questions. You were the smartest guy in the room instead of the dumbest guy in the room.
That's not my fault.

Speaker 2 I'm still the same old Tommy, just more knowledgeable because I was the dumbest guy in the room.

Speaker 1 Tommy 5.0 or 6.0.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 That was a long answer.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm so happy that I'm on here. This is for my little journey.
This is definitely one of the highlights of my journey to come on your show.

Speaker 1 I've been listening to you, like I said, for many years. And honestly, I look up to you, and this is one of my proudest moments.

Speaker 1 So, I just thank you for everything you've done, especially now joining the, you started the best practice group. You're just going to help so many people.
And,

Speaker 1 you know, that's like I said, I said another one, my takeaway is join a best practice group. Yeah, I'm part of Nexstar.
There's lots of good ones.

Speaker 1 I'm actually a member of the home service HMS group, and I went through all that. It's amazing.
And

Speaker 1 just, you know, don't go at it alone. You're going to burn so many years trying to figure things out yourself.

Speaker 1 Like, why would you touch this thing and go, owie, hot, owie, hot, owie hot, like hot water burn baby, you know, just join the group and collapse time, you know?

Speaker 1 So just, it's amazing that you've started that group and done all that.

Speaker 2 Well, it's starting in November. And, you know, what's so cool is as I talk to garage drawer companies across the country.

Speaker 2 And if anybody knows any great garage drawer companies, I think this is very compelling because I'm able to get them on service time, and give them my price book and I'm able to get their chart of accounts dialed in and give them the best ways to pay and vendor discounts and get them on the same payroll systems.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 then I show them if they do this and they roll into the new company, how much it like they become millionaires overnight. And then they get multi-millions more.

Speaker 2 And then they can roll again and get multi-millions more. And it's like, they don't know it exists.

Speaker 2 I'm like pretty happy just knowing like it's almost like this hidden thing that people don't talk about because it hasn't been around for a long time because quite frankly the home service industry was frowned upon blue collar it was just us you know a garage shore guy a plumber and now it's like look i think we could create lots and lots and lots thousands of millionaires and i love the equity incentive program because This helps you win, retain, and find great talent.

Speaker 2 And, you know, a lot of people are so selfish. They would never do anything.
And I get it because they felt like they put all the risk, but there's still a lot of work to be done.

Speaker 2 You're putting a strike price. This is the bottom.
You're coming in at this price. And then you can reset that every three years, six months, however you design it.

Speaker 2 With someone else comes on, and it's not vested. It's vested over time.
And you can put certain thresholds on it. So you could do a double combo for an equity incentive print.

Speaker 2 You got to be here this amount of time. We've got to hit this number.
And now they're driving towards something and they deserve to win too.

Speaker 2 So as this new thing comes to light, there's going to be lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of millionaires. And yes, everybody gets to win.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's as simple as that.

Speaker 2 I mean, when I worked with Cowen,

Speaker 2 Eric Van Dam

Speaker 2 and Rob Park, these guys, they literally were teaching me for years on thresholds and why it makes sense and why 5 million of EBITDA and then 20 million of EBITDA, then 100 million of EBITDA, and then beyond that and how it all works and why it works that way.

Speaker 2 And I asked a lot of questions, man, and I asked questions for hours and hours, several times a month. And knowing this knowledge now, it's like I always say, it's not really fair.

Speaker 2 I try to share as much as I can, but I don't really have to hide anything.

Speaker 2 I don't ever look over my shoulder. I don't have any deep with anybody.
I don't talk shit behind people's backs. I tell it to their face if I'm unhappy.

Speaker 2 Of course, we have management meetings and we discuss certain things with certain employees. There's a resolution.

Speaker 2 But as far as just being out there, I just, I want people to know I'm the real deal and I care. And yes, I talk about sales, but so does the preacher.
So does the rabbi. So does the priest.

Speaker 2 Yes, I talk about building relationships, but if you're married, so did you. You figured that out.
So some people are like those used car salesman tricks. And I'm like, what?

Speaker 2 Eye contact, asking great questions, giving options, not in your head, because you believe in it. That's bad.

Speaker 2 Calling it promotions instead of financing because financing makes it sound like I'm on food stamps when it's actually probably something that makes sense for me.

Speaker 2 Zero percent financing, who wouldn't do that? That's what the rich do, and it raises your average ticket.

Speaker 2 Yes, you pay a dealer fee, but these are all things that I really do feel like I'm just getting started.

Speaker 2 I think because the business has evolved and I've had a different role kind of every year that I don't feel like I'm just stuck in this spot. I enjoy what I do, and if I didn't, I wouldn't be here.

Speaker 2 I'd like to ask a few questions, Anthony. Is there any books that change your life? Any books that really stand out to you?

Speaker 1 Oh yeah, I'm a huge reader.

Speaker 1 I've read hundreds and hundreds of books over the years.

Speaker 1 Well, one of the first books that changed my life was when I was stagnant for the first five years, the first book that I read was Mike Aguilero, The Secrets of Business Mastery.

Speaker 1 That book really helped pull my head out of my butt and showed me what was possible because

Speaker 1 I basically, you know, was a tech that started a business with no money, knew nothing about business. And I burnt the first five years, like Groundhog Day.

Speaker 1 And I read that book and he did the same thing. That guy was electrician.
And then basically he stayed stagnant for the first 10 years.

Speaker 1 Then he engaged in personal development and then boom, off to the races.

Speaker 1 So that book just helped me a lot just because I think when you're stuck somewhere, it really helps to read and understand a story where the person's kind of just like you.

Speaker 1 I mean, obviously, when you become more mature as a business owner, you know, like, hey, I can learn from everybody, business, business. It's just the widget and the KPIs.

Speaker 1 And this is what the financial, you know, like when you, you can learn from everybody. But I feel like when you're stuck, you want to try to go out there and look for someone that's similar to you.

Speaker 1 And he was one. And that was one of the books that really helped me a lot.
But now there's so many available podcasts. It's unbelievable.
Like the podcasts, I feel like help more now than books.

Speaker 1 Even though I'm an avid reader, I read books every month. The most recent book I read was Yours.
And then I read Alex Trimosi, Gym Launch, I think it was. Yeah, that book was crazy good.

Speaker 1 Like, you got to read that book and understand like his business mind. And you're like, no wonder this guy's a gazillionaire.

Speaker 1 You know, like, it's just incredible just to read a book of a business operator. You get to see how his mind thought about things and things he implemented.

Speaker 1 And it makes me want to go buy a gym and get that going.

Speaker 4 It's not easy.

Speaker 2 Listen, he does a great job. I like Alex Ramosi a lot.
He made this comment the other day

Speaker 2 that he says he's 32 and he pay all of his money back to be a busboy for it to get 10 years back.

Speaker 2 And Ken Gooders will tell you the same thing. He'd take it all away, his private plane and everything to be back in his youth.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 the takeaway of that is enjoy it. Live it to your best.
Be in the now.

Speaker 2 Don't have regrets.

Speaker 2 I think part of your brain needs to say enjoy today and part of it needs to say make sure we're set up for the future. But you need to have that good balance.

Speaker 2 Is there any other books? The third one,

Speaker 1 you know, one book only because I've listened to all your episodes. People bring up a million times Napoleon Hill Think and Grow Rich.

Speaker 1 And every time I hear that book, I'm like, hey man, Think and Grow Rich is to prime the pump.

Speaker 1 The ultimate book, like you're supposed to read Think and Grow Rich, just to kind of prime your mind to get your mind ready for his best work of art, which is The Law of Success in 16 Lessons.

Speaker 1 That's the book. And then, you know, people bring up Think and Grow Rich a lot, but it's really that's just to prime the pump.
Think of Ro Rich

Speaker 1 is a work of art. And then, you know.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 how does someone get a hold of you, Anthony?

Speaker 1 You can friend me on Facebook. You know, you can just hit me up.

Speaker 1 I'm putting out in the ether that one of the things I've done good reading books, listening to podcasts and joining best practice groups, internet things.

Speaker 1 But I'm really in the market for a mentor to help give me some shortcuts. So I'm just putting it out in the ether.

Speaker 1 If someone has a 50-plus million dollar business, I promise I'll be a good apprentice and I'll take massive action and I'll listen. I won't waste your time.

Speaker 2 So it's Anthony Cafana and it's C-A-F-A-G-N-A.

Speaker 2 Like him on Facebook, find him on Facebook, friend him and message him. And

Speaker 2 is there anything that we didn't cover that you think business owners should be thinking about right now?

Speaker 1 Yeah, definitely. So in my market, people are getting bought up left and right.
Like I can't go more than a a few weeks or a month without some big player getting bought by private equity.

Speaker 1 And I would say that for a long time in our industry, you know, we're kind of competing against like the unsophisticated dude that didn't know his numbers and didn't know KPIs, doesn't even know what KPIs is and all that.

Speaker 1 I would say now's the time definitely to join a best practice group and to engage in personal development and take massive action because it's different now.

Speaker 1 You're competing against sophisticated businesses that have tons of money, great data to take massive action on.

Speaker 1 So, and then they have a pool like some of the groups, it's like they have some of the best companies in the nation inside, and they're creating a mastermind.

Speaker 1 If you read any of the Napoleon Hill books, you know how powerful a mastermind is. So they got money and they're creating masterminds.

Speaker 1 So if you're a smaller contractor, now's the time to definitely take your life serious and step your game up.

Speaker 2 Well, I will say this, that all PE companies are created equal. A lot of PE companies have family offices.
They got family money.

Speaker 2 money they got investors coming in and they see easy money and i'll tell you this if you go with a pe company that doesn't understand and have a proven track record and just thinks they're going to do this game of arbitrage they got another thing coming

Speaker 2 and i've met dozens of companies that do pe

Speaker 2 and i say most of them don't know what they're doing They think if they buy enough companies and use enough leverage, and it works in today's economy, but it's not going to work.

Speaker 2 And I'm telling you, there's going to be something. And I don't know when, and I don't know exactly what,

Speaker 2 but this is not forever. This is not going to last.
This isn't like people think, man, I'm just going to get a little bit bigger. Man, you got everything you've got.

Speaker 2 And I'm not, look, I'm not pushing people to get this done now. I think one of my best books I've read is the private equity playbook by Adam Coffey.

Speaker 2 and a Kofi or whatever. And I'll tell you what, he told me years ago on the podcast, you should do something sooner than later.

Speaker 2 And And I waited for all the stars to align, and I'll tell you what they did. And I wouldn't have changed a thing I did.
And looking back four months ago, I'm just so happy I made the decisions I did.

Speaker 2 And you know what's nice is I always had money, but now it's like different.

Speaker 2 I'm doing the right things. I'm getting the haircut for my house now.
I'm getting more efficient. Everything I'm doing is finding the right coaches.

Speaker 2 And I'm not afraid to pay six figures a year to several coaches. It's crazy because it starts being exponential.
And even the supplements I'm taking and the tests I'm taking for my health.

Speaker 2 Before I wouldn't ever do it because it was like, I didn't want to spend the money, I guess. And I'm pretty frugal.
Now I'm like, look,

Speaker 2 you live one life, live your best one, and I've got the resources. So why not do it?

Speaker 2 So I'm like three and a half months into this thing, figuring out all the things I need for efficiency, the things I need for health, the things I need.

Speaker 2 I'm getting more personal assistant, executive assistant, the chef, the hairdresser, the special person that's helping with travel.

Speaker 2 It's like it does get easier and it gets more efficient and it gets more fun, I think. And that's just my point of view.
I'm not pushing for anybody to sell or take chips off the table.

Speaker 2 I don't care what you do. And it's not the right time for a lot of people, but I'm telling you, it's not going to last forever.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I promise you that things are going to change and there's going to be a lot of disruptors. And if you're not paying attention, it's going to blow right past you.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You know, my takeaway would be to just use it as a motivating factor, right? Like

Speaker 1 some people want to buy 10 million plus companies or 20 or whatever. Just let that be a motivating factor that, you know, heavy hitters are entering the market.
They're sophisticated.

Speaker 1 They're well funded. And make sure you get yours, you know, like get after it, get to work, let's go.
Because yeah, like the PE companies may own like a small percentage of the whole market.

Speaker 1 But the thing is, is like, let's just fast forward a handful of years from now. I'm sure all the PE companies that are back, they care about like reviews and building a brand.

Speaker 1 So if five years from now, like there's 10, 20 companies in this area that have thousands and thousands of reviews and they had the financial means to actually build a brand, meaning they had the money to spend X amount every month, every year with no return, right?

Speaker 1 Like when you're a smaller guy, it's like you're paying for clickly, click, clicks, right? Like, click my stuff, call me, give me money now. Click on my stuff, call me, give me money now.

Speaker 2 And play the long game, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Like the PE companies, they don't have to do that.

Speaker 2 Like they're going to build they do. They got LPs.

Speaker 2 Believe it or not, these companies have about 10 years to get the money back to the LPs and they got to hold for three years because of capital gains. So three to seven is their target.

Speaker 2 And they've got to go back. Believe it or not, they got to talk to their LPs and investors on a monthly basis.
And they need to tell them what's going on, what's happening, are they meeting budget?

Speaker 2 And they can't just say we're spending money to spend money with no goals. They got to say, this is what we're doing.
We're spending 25% on marketing.

Speaker 2 Here's the market share we're going for this year. This is a play to take market share.
And here's how we're doing it. And they got to report on those.

Speaker 2 You know, yes, in a test of time, they're not in a hurry, but they've got a plan. And don't let anybody fool you.

Speaker 2 They've got an amount of people to invest that are investors that they got to report to. I mean, listen, I invested in a PE company.
actually Core Tech in the new fund.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I get to know everything going on with every investment they make. I get to get monthly reporting.
I get to know what's going on. And they've got a lot of shit riding.

Speaker 2 I mean, literally, who's going to invest in it again if they lose money or if they don't make money the year? And guess what?

Speaker 2 If you don't make money as a PE company, if you're not increasing the bottom line, that reduces your leverage. Because right now, let's say they leverage 8X to get your business.

Speaker 2 Let's say you're $100 million.

Speaker 2 So they use the banks to leverage. If you're a $100 million company and you're at, let's just say, $10 million, they could actually borrow 80 and then come up with 20 million.

Speaker 2 It's complicated math how it works, but if you don't grow that $10 million

Speaker 2 to 20, they have no more leverage. They got to use the funds money, which is dilutive.

Speaker 2 And these are the things I'm learning about. I'm telling you, it's fascinating.
And I'm sucking it all in and going, holy shit.

Speaker 2 This is like, I thought I was pretty good and I wasn't even close. This is a whole new school.

Speaker 1 This is like a whole other ballgame.

Speaker 2 But Anthony, listen, I appreciate you very much. I'm glad you came on.
I'm very, very excited about your business.

Speaker 2 And it sounds like you're a student for life and you're adopting the things that are working. I appreciate you listening to the podcast even more for coming on.
And 20 million is amazing in a market.

Speaker 2 And you've got lots of trucks on the road. You're very humble.
And it's been an honor.

Speaker 3 Thank you so much, Tommy, for everything you do.

Speaker 1 I appreciate you having me on.

Speaker 2 Hey there, thanks for tuning into the podcast today. Before I let you go, I want to let everybody know that Elevate is out and ready to buy.

Speaker 2 I can share with you how I attracted a winning team of over 700 employees in over 20 states. The insights in this book are powerful and can be applied to any business or organization.

Speaker 2 It's a real game changer for anyone looking to build and develop a high-performing team like over here at A1 Garage Door Service.

Speaker 2 So if you want to learn the secrets to help me transfer my team from stealing the toilet paper to a group of 700 plus employees growing in the same direction, head over to elevateandwin.com forward slash podcast and grab a copy of the book.

Speaker 2 Thanks again for listening, and we'll catch up with you next time on the podcast.