Keeping the Blue Collar Spirit Alive with RJ Magee

Speaker 1 I think it starts with culture. Culture isn't pizza parties.
Culture is a group of people that come together for a shared vision.

Speaker 1 In that shared vision, there is a high level of accountability within the organization.

Speaker 2 Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields like marketing, sales, hiring, and leadership to find out what's really behind their success in business.

Speaker 2 Now, your host, the Home Service Millionaire, Tommy Mello. Before we get started, I wanted to share two important things with you.
First, I want you to implement what you learned today.

Speaker 2 To do that, you'll have to take a lot of notes, but I also want you to fully concentrate on the interview. So I asked the team to take notes for you.
Just text notes, N-O-T-E-S to 888-526-1299.

Speaker 2 That's 888-526-1299. And you'll receive a link to download the notes from today's episode.
Also, if you haven't got your copy of my newest book, Elevate, please go check it out.

Speaker 2 I'll share with you how I attracted and developed a winning team that helped me build a $200 million company in 22 states. Just go to elevateandwin.com forward slash podcast to get your copy.

Speaker 2 Now, let's go back into the interview. All right, guys, welcome back to the home service expert.
Today I got RJ McGee. He is a expert in operations, leadership, business development.

Speaker 2 He's actually based here in Vegas.

Speaker 2 He's the CEO at Sierra Group, a leading home service company based in Las Vegas, Nevada, with over 15 years of experience in operations, leadership, and business development.

Speaker 2 RJ has played a key role in scaling Sierra's success.

Speaker 2 A graduate of Texas Tech University with a degree in finance and an MBA from Syracuse University, he combines strategic vision and hands-on operational expertise.

Speaker 2 RJ is passionate about developing people, building sustainable growth, and redefining what excellent looks like in the trade.

Speaker 2 His leadership has positioned Sierra Group as one of the most respected names in the industry. Thanks for being here, brother.

Speaker 1 Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 Well, listen, man, let's just start out. You know, how do you got in the trades and what's gone well? What you're looking forward to.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 second generation in the trades. My dad was a new construction guy.
He started a company out here in Vegas, Sierra Air Conditioning. And I used to come out here, work the summers.

Speaker 1 I actually grew up in Texas, but I'd work every summer out here being a tech, been in sheet metal, doing all the grunt work, and then ended up going to college out in Lubbock. Met my wife.

Speaker 1 We moved out here in 2010 and then I got involved with the business and been doing it ever since.

Speaker 2 And what's going well? What are you looking forward to?

Speaker 2 So you're 15 years in the game.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's been a fun ride. We've partnered with private equity.
We've been able to build a really great company here. And we've got five other partners in other markets as well.

Speaker 1 It's been fun working with the other teams, learning about the other markets, helping them grow and develop those companies.

Speaker 1 2025 has been a challenging year with a lot of headwinds, but I think what's been exciting about it is the teams really figured out how to adapt and overcome and make the best out of a tough year.

Speaker 2 What is

Speaker 2 did you acquire those? Did you greenfield? How did you guys get involved in all the other markets?

Speaker 1 All of them have been acquisitions. A lot of them were former owners that were ready to retire.

Speaker 1 So we did, went in and partnered with the former owners, helped them kind of build out their succession team and their succession plan in those markets.

Speaker 1 And then we've then, you know, brought in some of our next star coaches or their former next star coaches. They work for us now.
They go in and really help, you know,

Speaker 1 redefine the or rebuild the operations and really focus on the like sales, marketing, all the all the key needle movers we know that help those businesses grow.

Speaker 2 Now, I told you previously, I kind of got out of Portland and there's nothing wrong with Portland. It's just a hard city to work in.
A lot of politics, a lot of makes it tough for business owners.

Speaker 2 Similar to California, you're in Seattle.

Speaker 2 What are some of the challenges in some of these markets?

Speaker 2 I'm pro-employee, 100 through and through, but when it makes it hard and lawsuits come through the yin-yang and it's hard to get labor, what are some of the challenges in a market like that?

Speaker 1 Well, I think one of the hardest things is really competing with some of the

Speaker 1 pay plans that are prevalent in those markets. We're very much a performance pay pay shop.
We believe in performance pay

Speaker 1 and getting, you know, getting the existing tech base to buy into performance pay plans and how they can make a big difference in their paycheck long term.

Speaker 1 That's, that's been a struggle, along with just, you know, a lot of these companies are used to doing things a certain way. So it's making sure that we're explaining to them like what makes sense,

Speaker 1 how to train their people, how to really build experiences in the home and whatnot.

Speaker 1 But I would say probably the number one thing is really just teaching them how to change up the pay plans and getting their people more motivated from the performance pay commission pay standpoint.

Speaker 2 Yeah, stake in the outcome changes everything.

Speaker 2 Every business you could go into when they got a stake, you know, I always say hourly people, not the best pay structures. No.

Speaker 2 No one's got an incentive to do the job the right way the first time, to build a client for life, to build a relationship.

Speaker 2 They don't see a reason to really, I mean, we, we take it all the way down to equity to the technicians and installers,

Speaker 2 which is hard to do.

Speaker 2 But then you get people that really, really try hard.

Speaker 2 And they still got to get five-star reviews. And it's crazy.

Speaker 2 The top 10% of the company in sales also gets the most five-star reviews, also shows up to the meetings on time, also has a big smile, also becomes a mentor to the other guys, also is recruiting, handing their cards out at gas stations.

Speaker 2 Is that what it is for you?

Speaker 1 Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 We want to motivate the and drive the behaviors we want through the pay pay structure. So we definitely build the pay structures around that.

Speaker 1 And then really just educating them to understand that like they have, you know, they have full control of their pay and their destiny. We don't believe in seniority.

Speaker 1 We don't believe that you have to work for us a certain amount of time before you can reach a certain pay level.

Speaker 1 We want you to come in and hit the ground running and you can grow as quickly or as slowly as you want within the organization.

Speaker 2 No tenure meritocracy.

Speaker 2 So what did you know? I got an MBA from University of Arizona, and I learned a couple of cool things, but hindsight, I'm like, it didn't really help.

Speaker 2 The relationships I built were probably the best thing.

Speaker 2 Do you think your MBA changed the way you look at business?

Speaker 1 No, I mean, it was a cool experience.

Speaker 1 To your point, you learn, you know, learn different ways to look at things. At the end of the day, I could have learned it elsewhere.

Speaker 1 I think college is great to teach you networking, teach you how to build relationships, how to meet new people. Outside of that, I looking back,

Speaker 1 I don't see the value of it

Speaker 1 that a lot of people put on college. I have three kids right now, and that's a conversation that my wife and I talk about a lot is like, do we think we should send our...

Speaker 2 How old are they?

Speaker 1 They are nine, five, and four.

Speaker 2 You got nine years to have that conversation with the first one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I can't imagine how much it's going to cost then. So we'll see.

Speaker 2 I don't know what this world. Bill Gates came out and said in seven years, you won't need a job.

Speaker 2 Which is a hard world to believe, but if you add up

Speaker 2 Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone, changed the game. And then IBM was one of the first people that created a computing, real computing power.
Then you've got the handheld cell phone.

Speaker 2 You had the Industrial Revolution.

Speaker 2 You add all those things together. Times it by 10, it doesn't even come close to what the world's going to be like with AI.

Speaker 1 No question. It's It's going to make a massive impact.

Speaker 2 And when you insert AI into machines, which Tesla's market cap right now is $5 trillion on autonomous cars. When the robots come out near the end of next year, $25 trillion.
This adds $20 trillion.

Speaker 2 And he was able to negotiate a really nice bonus for himself. Really nice.

Speaker 2 But he's got a Forex to company, which as a shareholder, I love giving him that because if you're not incentivizing the leadership team, they're not going to do it.

Speaker 2 But it's a new world that's coming. What do you think, AI?

Speaker 2 Machine learning, obviously, starts in the call center dispatch. Anything monotonous that happens over data entry could be HR related.
But what are the other things you

Speaker 1 anticipate with AI? Well, I think it's going to redefine everything. I mean, call center for sure, they won't exist pretty soon.

Speaker 1 Logistics dispatching, it'll replace that. I think accounting is another area, repeatable processes.
AI has got to come in and systemize all of that very, very soon.

Speaker 1 So I think it's going to eliminate a lot of positions, but I think just like any industry, it's going to create a lot of positions as well and a lot of opportunities for those people to go move into new careers and new sectors.

Speaker 2 I forget the stat, but it was an astounding amount back in the days when there was phones and they have to put in the

Speaker 2 and it was like a crazy number of women that had that career and then that went away. And

Speaker 2 they got another job. There was still a need.
They just got to learn how to train a new skill.

Speaker 1 I think humans are going to work really well with AI. Yeah.
I mean, I look at refrigeration. It's the same thing.
We used to sell ice to people. Right.
Then refrigeration came around.

Speaker 1 All those people lost their job, but then a whole new other industry was created.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Wagons went to automobiles.
There's a lot of examples of that.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 one of the ratios we're paying attention to to is the guys in the field versus all the indirect. And I'm indirect.
I'm not in the field collecting checks anymore.

Speaker 2 That ratio of technicians, installers, of people out there doing the work versus not, needs to start growing.

Speaker 2 There should be way more guys in the field and that number should go up dramatically with the help. So we're building our whole org chart and saying, what's the automation?

Speaker 2 It doesn't mean we're going to... get rid of everybody.
It means we're going to go on a freeze. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I think it's smart. I mean, I think your typical like next star, certain pass, they used to coach like three to one, four to one.
I think it's very quickly going to double your office to field ratio.

Speaker 1 You know, I think the way to not

Speaker 1 scare the staff and the team is to basically say, like, we're going to continue to grow, but we think we can grow without adding a lot of bodies. Yeah.

Speaker 1 We're going to use AI to help enhance your position within the company and make you more valuable than we are to just come in and eliminate it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you can make a lot more money if you work well with AI.

Speaker 2 And machine learning and AI are two different things. One of them is historical, grabbing data, making the best assumptions.
One of them is kind of looking outward.

Speaker 2 So you've been doing this for a while now. What are some of the pivotal things from project manager to CEO, looking back? What are the pivotal lessons you've learned?

Speaker 1 I think the most important thing is recognizing like your people are really important and you've got to put people first. You've got to be a servant leader.

Speaker 1 You've got to make make sure that you're, you're there to support them and give them the tools they need to be successful.

Speaker 1 Learning how to communicate and be patient. And we're all, we're all people.
We're all humans. We're messy.
Like all humans are messy.

Speaker 1 And so we have to make sure we understand that people are going to make mistakes.

Speaker 1 And our most important job in the organization is to be the chief repeating officer, not whatever other title you think it is.

Speaker 1 Like, I see where we don't have a lot of grace with our employees and we expect to to just tell them something one time and they're going to remember it.

Speaker 1 And like, I guarantee you, there's things right now that are happening that you're forgetting and that I'm forgetting.

Speaker 1 And yet we expect our team and our employees to be able to remember everything we've taught them.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's where manuals, standard, operated procedures and checklists come in and getting it and then having them initial each page. We go over in October

Speaker 2 how to request PTO because Thanksgiving Christmas is coming up. And like we recite it, we go over it, we go over it, we go over it.
And it's a constant thing because we're hiring so many people.

Speaker 2 It's just, you're right, we repeat.

Speaker 2 What is your leadership philosophy and how has it evolved over the years?

Speaker 1 Well, I think at first it was very much just like gritty and work hard.

Speaker 1 Like, I think just like anybody that's come up, you know, with an entrepreneurial background, it's like, I just have to work harder than everybody else. And I'm going to get where I need to be.

Speaker 1 And then as the company continued to grow, you start to learn that, okay, I can't do this all on my own. I've got to really start investing in people, investing and helping them grow.

Speaker 1 So that's where I think like being a servant leader comes in is that you have to be willing to put like your people first and give them the tools they need to succeed because it becomes less important about you succeeding and more important about them succeeding because you can do a lot more through people than you can just by yourself.

Speaker 2 Zig Ziglar, you could have anything you want if you're helping other people get what they want.

Speaker 2 How much percentage should we be spending of revenue on marketing?

Speaker 1 Across our portfolio, we average about 4.5%.

Speaker 2 So low. You're lucky.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're really lucky. We've got some really mature brands in some really mature markets.

Speaker 1 We have a new construction background, DNA that really helps us from a branding standpoint. We've got...
thermostats in every home with the sticker on the thermostat.

Speaker 1 So that drives down our marketing costs significantly. Just here in Vegas alone, we've installed over 220,000 homes here in the Vegas market.
All of those have Sierra stickers.

Speaker 1 They call us. That's the first place they go when their AC breaks down.
And then we're able to leverage that and lean in and cross-sell through plumbing as well.

Speaker 2 When did this market start for Sierra?

Speaker 1 1987. 1987.

Speaker 2 That's why.

Speaker 1 I love it.

Speaker 2 You know, Sierra has become a standout name in HVAC and plumbing, not just for growth, but not just growth, but consistency.

Speaker 2 What do you think has been the key to maintaining momentum while keeping your company culture intact?

Speaker 1 I go back to the new construction.

Speaker 1 One thing that new construction teaches you is process.

Speaker 1 You have to be really efficient. And we were able to take what we learned in new construction and build that into a home service model.

Speaker 1 You know, we used to go to conferences all the time and we were trying to learn how to be good at service. We have no clue.

Speaker 1 Like we spent years asking and asking, and people would be like, how are you good at new construction? And we were like, well, it's easy. Like, because we built out the systems and the processes.

Speaker 1 And so as we started to learn how home service works and the interactions and the experience, we really focused on process and efficiency.

Speaker 1 And I think that's really drove a lot of the success there.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 we've got home service freedom and we did a Q ⁇ A two days ago and there's all these $10 million companies asking tons of questions. It's hard for me to go back.

Speaker 2 So the question for you is, what's the difference between a $10 million revenue versus a $100 million revenue company?

Speaker 1 You know, the thing I tell all the GMs is the team I had at 10 million isn't the team I had at 20 million, isn't the team I had at 40 million and isn't the team we have at 100 million today.

Speaker 1 And so I think it's making sure that the people that you're surrounding yourself with are people who want to continue to grow and want to continue to raise their lid within the organization.

Speaker 1 We're big on John Maxwell, Law of the Lid.

Speaker 1 And so that's one thing is just at some point, some people just decide they can't grow anymore. And that's okay.

Speaker 1 It's okay. You know, those are tough conversations to have, but we still need to have them because we can't allow leaders to become what keeps us from growing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they're tough conversations, but it's only fair to cut them loose and say you're going to go do great somewhere else. And I've had to do that several times.

Speaker 2 It's never an easy conversation, but you've got a lot of families depending on you to make those decisions, other people within the company

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 i want to get back to marketing you were talking a lot about well you don't do a whole lot at four and a half percent but still it's a big number it's millions and millions of dollars where do you think the best investment is for a large company right now is it radio tv is it obviously we've talked about a little bit about llms in the studio

Speaker 2 where where some people just do straight ppc i don't know how they make money doing straight ppc but

Speaker 1 well i think mass media is obviously important i don't think you can say from a mass media standpoint, you should do this or that.

Speaker 1 You need to really pay attention to your, you know, your marketing pro through service site and figure out, you know, where your organic traffic is coming in. Is it coming in well?

Speaker 1 Okay, that means our mass media is working pretty well. If not, let's make sure we're paying attention to Google, Yelp.
I think if you're just starting, Google's where you have to live.

Speaker 1 SEO, PPC, LSA, those have to be the three that you're optimizing for right out of the gate.

Speaker 2 And the GVP. Yeah, absolutely.
24-7. It needs to stay 24-7

Speaker 2 instead of 9 to 5 Monday through Thursday.

Speaker 1 Really making sure you're getting the reviews, making sure you're getting reviews with pictures,

Speaker 1 anything that will help improve that GDP, help improve that LSA. That's where I think the most important place to live is.

Speaker 1 And then once you get those dialed in, that's when you start leaning into the Yelps of Thumbtacks.

Speaker 1 That's not where you should start though. I think I see a lot of people start with thumbtacks, start with ANG, start with Yelp.
They don't prioritize the reviews. They don't prioritize the pictures.

Speaker 1 And then all of a sudden,

Speaker 1 they're a slave to the lead aggregator.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's not a good place to be. I mean, I was just at a home improvement conference and these guys, it's all lead ag companies.
And if they decide,

Speaker 2 hopefully one day you could buy the lead ag company if they're doing that well.

Speaker 2 But if they decide to someone's going to pay more for lead, luckily, I've always said whoever could pay more per lead will always win.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's why private equity is doing so well right now.

Speaker 2 I was going to ask you about private equity. I mean,

Speaker 2 what are the good, bad, and the ugly?

Speaker 1 I think with anything, you know, for us, we have a small family office that we work with. They're very hands-off, which is...
very much can be a blessing, but also can be a curse.

Speaker 1 Sometimes there's a lack of direction and vision.

Speaker 1 It's good because it challenges us to step in and fill that role. So it helps us raise our lid.

Speaker 1 But I think also having, you know, a middle market PE or even a larger PE company, they come with a lot of resources, whether it's recruiting, whether it's

Speaker 1 marketing, whether it's HR resources, IT resources.

Speaker 1 Like PE does bring a lot to the table, you know, but as they bring a lot to the table, everyone has to recognize, you know, to those that are given much, much is expected.

Speaker 1 Like there's a level of accountability that comes with that. And they're going to ask questions that you've never been asked before.

Speaker 1 And they're going to challenge you and make you think in ways you haven't thought before. And that can be that can be overwhelming at times.

Speaker 1 And so, really making sure you vet the PE group, you reference check who you're going to be partnering with, I think is really important for anybody that's thinking about doing it.

Speaker 2 What are some of the mistakes you see people doing with acquisitions? Because everybody and their brother's like, I'm just going to go buy it like you do.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, we've grown mostly organically or greenfield.

Speaker 1 Well, I think the first thing is getting rid of the founder.

Speaker 2 Especially if they're under 5 million of EBITDA.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like um

Speaker 1 they'll they'll hold you up yeah we were looking at a company in in texas and it was a husband-wife shop and they had grown from zero to ten million in four years like really amazing growth but they wanted to walk and it was just them and that whole company would walk with them if they walked and i think pe sometimes just sees that's a really attractive ebita number oh you're saying keep the founders no i i i believe that for for a point in time you got to make sure that there's a really good succession plan in place i agree with that i think darius livers you familiar with darius i'm not familiar uh fh for

Speaker 2 he's like the first thing if you're buying a company under five million of ebita you got to figure out a transition plan because

Speaker 2 I look at it buying a company as a marketing source. Sometimes you get great people along with it.
A lot of times you do. Sometimes you don't.

Speaker 2 But you get the name, you get the brand, you get the stickers. There are a lot of things you get.
You get the GVPs with a bunch of reviews. I can make technicians.

Speaker 2 We've We've got a good leadership team that kind of sits on the head of everything. Integrations are harder than most people think.
Like we, we got the same price book in every market.

Speaker 2 We buy it from the same vendors in every market, same benefits in every market, same truck setup in every market, even if it's a different name of the company.

Speaker 2 Like we are holistically one CFO, one CEO, one COO,

Speaker 2 three VPs of different regions, but a lot of companies haven't done that. They have not properly integrated.

Speaker 1 No, and you're never going to be, you're never going to get the top multiple if you don't fully integrate the way you're doing it.

Speaker 2 Is that what you guys have done?

Speaker 1 We're still in process. I would say that we're getting a lot closer than we've ever been, but it's a grind.
And if the founders are still involved, it can become more challenging.

Speaker 2 They hate a product. They say, we'll never carry that.
They, you know, because 20 years ago, it was a bad product. And then obviously they.
Vendors could change.

Speaker 2 The OEM manufacturing could get better or worse.

Speaker 1 And that's where I think if you are going to have a founder that's staying on board, you got to really make sure that you're selling the vision and they understand the future direction of the company.

Speaker 1 Also, you want to make sure that they are staying on their

Speaker 1 rolling so that they have a stake in the game as well with you and they want to succeed just as much as you want to succeed.

Speaker 2 What's one leadership mistake or misconception that you see a lot of owners make?

Speaker 1 I think just again,

Speaker 1 expecting that you're, you know, your communication with your people, thinking that you only have to tell somebody how to do something one time. I think that we

Speaker 1 just have such high expectations for

Speaker 1 whether it's techs, frontline managers that come out of the field, we don't set them up with the right tools, the right training to be successful. We don't give them 30, 60, 90s.

Speaker 1 We don't give them job descriptions. We just say like, hey, you're a service manager now, you're an operations manager now.

Speaker 1 And then they stumble and they fail, not because they weren't ready for the position, because we didn't properly prepare them for the position.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the orientation, the onboarding process, the training that's got to continue to evolve. Training never ends, it's got to be something that's the DNA of the company.

Speaker 1 You got to give people a roadmap. You got to give them a vision.
You got to let them know where we're going, how we expect them to get there.

Speaker 1 And if we don't do that, then and they fail, it's not on them, it's on us as a leader.

Speaker 2 I like the idea of a roadmap.

Speaker 2 When you think about the team you've built, what do you look for in people beyond their skill set?

Speaker 1 For us, I mean, it's attitude.

Speaker 1 Attitude's really important.

Speaker 1 Of course, I want people that are smarter than me. Like, I want to be the dumbest person in the room all the time.
And so

Speaker 1 we target people that are really have been around, have been in the trades for a while, have worked for PE in the past, but still can maintain that

Speaker 1 connection with the operators. I think that's really important.
I see some of the other PE companies, they bring in outside resources, which are extremely smart.

Speaker 1 I do not discredit that at all, but I think they lose touch for what the plight of a GM is, what an operator is really going through, the grind, how to communicate with technicians, how to communicate with sales guys.

Speaker 1 And we lose a little bit of that blue-collar feel. And I think for the organization to stay successful, you've got to keep that blue-collar feel within it.

Speaker 2 The family feel.

Speaker 2 Like that's not massive corporation. What's changed the most about the customer or the industry in the past few years?

Speaker 1 Well, I think from a customer standpoint, they're not nearly as patient as they used to be. I think you take Amazon, you take all the technology, you take Uber Eats, DoorDash.

Speaker 1 We've created an instant gratification society. And so we have to make sure that we're adapting as an organization from a sales delivery.

Speaker 1 perspective.

Speaker 1 We should be either doing same-day installs or at minimum next-day installs on everything that we do.

Speaker 1 And that's so that we can continue to, you know, the millennials are coming up and they're becoming the largest part of the workforce. And those are the ones we need to be catering to the most.

Speaker 1 And they want things done right now. They want to make quick decisions and they want to move on with their life.

Speaker 2 Yeah. What's the miss?

Speaker 2 I love working around millennials, Gen X, Gen Z.

Speaker 2 I think they just want to be more involved and they want to see a path.

Speaker 2 They talk about work-life balance which uh baby boomers don't

Speaker 2 what's the difference between because your dad was in the business and he had partners

Speaker 2 what's the good and bad about that

Speaker 1 well like growing up like with my dad and his partners it was you didn't ask why you did what you were told. If you didn't do what you were told, something was getting thrown at you.

Speaker 1 It was a, you can ask questions when we say you can ask questions and we'll explain the why when we think that you're ready to know the why.

Speaker 1 So you just had to go and do it first, which I, it worked for a really long time. I was actually, I was talking with our COO about this this morning and that

Speaker 1 that reinforcement, that old school reinforcement of just like, do what I say right away, like that, that used to work really well. It doesn't work now with the like millennials, the Gen Zers.

Speaker 1 You can't just like yell at them. You can't scream at them.

Speaker 1 You have to really make sure that they understand what we're doing, why we're doing it, how we're doing it, why it impacts them, why it impacts the customer, how it's impacting the team.

Speaker 1 Like they need to know all of that and then they need to know the big picture of where we're going so that they like buy in and do what you want them to do.

Speaker 1 So I think the old school mentality of leading while was effective, it's just it cannot continue to be effective with the new workforce that we have.

Speaker 2 Hey there, it's Thanksgiving week and I have a quick feel-good story for you. It's about a guy named Lewis who drove over 14 hours to tour my shop about a year ago.

Speaker 2 His whatever it takes attitude really impressed me. So we made sure he got everything he came for and more.
A year later, he posted this. When I met Tommy, I only had one technician and one vehicle.

Speaker 2 Today, exactly one year later, we have three technicians, four work units, two secretaries, and our income has quadrupled. Here's the deal.

Speaker 2 You don't have to drive 14 hours to figure out how to scale your shop.

Speaker 2 On December 12th, Jim Leslie, my right-hand man, is doing a one-day boot camp in Dallas where he's teaching the same six systems we use to grow A1 to $250 million.

Speaker 2 If you're planning next year's goals, bring them. Jim will help you map out exactly what it'll take to hit $10 million, $50 million, or even $100 million.

Speaker 2 Check it out at home service expert.com forward slash boot camp. B-O-O-T-C-A-M-P.
That's homeservice expert.com forward slash boot camp. Enter Dallas at checkout for 50% off, only 90 spots.

Speaker 2 All right, back to the episode. What do you define success now that you might have thought differently when you were younger?

Speaker 1 Well, for me, like success used to be my own like personal growth, right? Like, how was I going to grow within the organization? How was I going to make more money?

Speaker 1 How was I going to support my family? Like, to me now, success is like helping others. Like, how do we, how do we help others grow? How do we help our technicians, you know, buy homes?

Speaker 1 How do we help them achieve their goals that they're setting? You know, we've got sales guys now that are buying rental properties, buying investment properties.

Speaker 1 We've got 20-something-year-olds that are being able to buy their home when they're seeing their counterparts that are still in college,

Speaker 1 can't buy a home, living with their parents. So I think that is where we really see success.
I love it when people say they want to go start their own company. Like we're all about that.

Speaker 1 Like, here, let me help you. Let me, I'll sign off on your contractor's board license.
Like, I want them to go and do it. I also warned them, like,

Speaker 1 It's not as easy as you think it is, but we, we don't, we, we celebrate other people succeeding and growing within the organization and that really like fulfills me

Speaker 2 It's it's hard just knowing what we've been through to say go do this because you're what one in 10 chances of succeeding you're gonna lose hair relationships.

Speaker 2 You're gonna lose your health not all the time.

Speaker 2 But technicians specifically tend to think, well, I know how to do the work, but do they understand what a

Speaker 2 balance sheet income statement is or how to recruit or understand accelerated depreciation or understand how to make the phone ring or understand understand what happens when someone doesn't come in or understand when,

Speaker 2 especially the lead gen side of it. And there's so much more understanding leases and workers' comp and the E-Mod score and the right type of insurance and benefits.

Speaker 2 The technicians are, I work for the technicians and the installers, but there's a lot of other things that happen in the background, even beyond my scope today.

Speaker 2 It's like, dude, I...

Speaker 2 I don't even know a return to work policy. I've never even heard of that.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, it's owning a business, it's, it's not for the faint heart.
That's for sure.

Speaker 2 Not a lot of people can pull it off. And when you do, it's a team that gets you there.
And I think bringing the team up with you.

Speaker 2 What's something you've learned about yourself as a leader that surprised you?

Speaker 1 I think just through my life,

Speaker 1 you know, I was, I've always been a very driven person. I've always been, you know, motivated by by success, motivated by, you know, growth of myself, you know, and doing better.

Speaker 1 I think, you know, I've had some life experiences. My wife and I, we lost one of our children in 2019.

Speaker 1 And that really like

Speaker 1 gave me a moment. Yeah.
But it really brought a lot of things into perspective of, you know, you only get one life. Right.
And you only get so much time to spend with your family.

Speaker 1 You only get so much time to spend with your kids, to be a dad, to be present. You know, a lot of people have asked me, like, well, why don't you just go start your own thing now?

Speaker 1 And it's like, well, I got young kids and I got a family and I've built a really amazing team.

Speaker 1 And, you know, it hasn't been without a grind, but you know, I used to want to be a billionaire and I used to want to have hundreds of millions of dollars.

Speaker 1 And now, like, don't get me wrong, I still want to make a lot of money over my lifetime, but it becomes less important, right? It becomes way more important.

Speaker 1 Are we showing up at home? Are we bringing our leftovers home? Or

Speaker 1 are we showing up as the dad and the husband that we need to show up as?

Speaker 1 And so I think that for me has been the biggest change from like a leadership growth perspective is not only recognizing myself, like, hey, what's really, and I have to remind myself all the time, like being a good dad, being a good husband is actually way harder for me than being a good leader in an organization.

Speaker 1 Like I can do that. I love business.
I love home service. I can do it all day, every day.
I could do it 18 hours a day and be the happiest person in the world. It's hard to be a good dad.

Speaker 1 It's hard to be a good husband. It's hard to prioritize that over your job and your people and your team.
So I think that perspective has been really, really good for me.

Speaker 2 Let me ask you this. You get $100 million.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 let me, let me just clarify. I have a lot of people going, man, I want to do what you did.
I want to get, you know, I'd love to have $100 million, $200 million. I'm like, why?

Speaker 2 Like, are you going to help out your parents? Are you trying to set your kids up? Like, what are you going to do with the money? And like, I don't know. It's just like, dude, it's a big goal.

Speaker 2 It's a B hag. I'm like, yeah.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 what would 100 do that 20 wouldn't? Like, what's the why, the Simon Sinek why behind it? So you get 100 million. What's the plan? What's the bucket list? What's happening with that money?

Speaker 1 For me, it'd be setting up generational wealth for the kids.

Speaker 1 We're in the process of, you know, setting up our own little like charity right now. We want to support like, we're big on like water safety now.
That's how our kid passed away.

Speaker 1 It was a drowning accident.

Speaker 1 So we're big on like infant swim rescue, sponsoring families who can't afford it and helping them be able to get their kids in there and, you know, educating people on just how important water safety is for their children.

Speaker 1 And so like for us, it's more about how we can use that to not only

Speaker 1 you know, better our family position, but also how can we help and influence others. We're really involved with our church.
You know, we'd want to help there wherever we can.

Speaker 1 So, those are the things that I think matter a lot more because at the end of the day, whether you have a hundred million, whether you have a billion, two billion, ten billion, you can't take it with you when you go, right?

Speaker 1 Like, and as far as I'm concerned, it's it's really not ours, anyways. Like, I think it's all a gift from God, and so it's our job to steward it in the way he wants us to steward it.

Speaker 1 And so, more importantly than the money, it's like how does God want us to really use that money to

Speaker 1 the way he wants us to use it, right? Because these businesses that we own,

Speaker 1 the money that we have, like, it's all just because he's allowed us to steward it right now.

Speaker 2 You know, I was with my dad. I took him to Idaho, and

Speaker 2 he's a big scripture guy. I mean, you name a scripture.
He'll tell you the story. He probably remembers the scripture.
And

Speaker 2 he's walking through this new house we're building in Idaho, and

Speaker 2 it's a pretty big house. It's a beautiful house.
And he goes, you know, something, Tommy? He goes, I don't think you know this, but Jesus and our God, he wants you to have this.

Speaker 2 He goes, you might not seem that way. And I said, what's on this conversation, Dad?

Speaker 2 He goes, well, some people think that God wants you to just give everything away, but you build relationships and you show up for people. And we talked about it for a while.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, dad, could we just kind of live in the moment for a second? Because he'll go straight Jesus on you for hours.

Speaker 2 And he's at that age where he's turning into my grandpa, where he's just, and it's great. And I love the time because you know what? Tomorrow's not promised.
He almost died in COVID.

Speaker 2 He's 72 years old. And I don't know.
I'm hoping I got 20 years. I'm hoping I got 50 years.
Who knows with modern medicine, but you don't know.

Speaker 2 How do you, you know, I've never been a father. I've been a son.

Speaker 2 How do you qualify time with your, your, I don't know, you haven't talked about mom much, but

Speaker 1 yeah, my, my wife?

Speaker 2 Or your, I guess your, uh, your dad.

Speaker 1 Oh, my dad. I mean, I didn't grow up with,

Speaker 1 I'm really blessed. Like, I grew up in Texas with my mom.
My mom and dad split when I was really young. She got remarried to my dad in Texas.
I call them both my dad.

Speaker 1 I got two dads, two moms, as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 1 I had a great dad in Texas that was there for me all the time, was at, you know, every sporting event, always just there to take care of me, help me through all of the stupid stuff we do when we're young.

Speaker 1 And then I didn't have the greatest relationship with my dad that was out here in Vegas.

Speaker 1 He was building a business and he was working really hard out here to build what he felt he was doing to support his family. Right.

Speaker 1 And so, you know, as I got older, I really started to develop my relationship with him later in my career or my life.

Speaker 1 And it's been amazing to have, you know, two dads that have been able to be there with me throughout different phases of my life and help really support me throughout those different phases of my life.

Speaker 1 And that's what I want to do for my kids is be there, be consistent,

Speaker 1 help them wherever it is. Like, you know, who knows, whatever they want to do, I just want to be there to help support them and guide them and keep them on the right track.

Speaker 1 I know they're going to do stupid stuff. We all do, right? Like

Speaker 2 fail forward, hopefully.

Speaker 1 So, but yeah, just being that good father that supports whatever their dreams and ambitions are.

Speaker 1 And also, if it's maybe not the best direction, help them guide them right in the back, the right direction.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you know, did you have any idea when you were wondering where your biological father was?

Speaker 2 And he was building the business out here in Vegas. Did you ever think when you got in the business, maybe three, five years in, like, now I get it?

Speaker 1 Oh, 100%. Like, it's, I think it maybe not, it was probably more when I really got into, because I started in like accounting.
I was bent in cheap metal.

Speaker 1 I wasn't dealing with the people the way he was dealing. He, they had companies in Sacramento.
They had companies in Reno. He was traveling all the time.

Speaker 1 He was, they had, at one point, they were about about 550 employees here in Vegas. Holy shit.
08 hit. They went from 550 to 70 in the matter of 90 days.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, the stress he was going through, everything he was building and doing, I totally got it. And I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 Like, it's what his sacrifice that he made early on is what's allowed me to be in the seat I'm in today. Right.

Speaker 1 And so, you know, it doesn't mean it wasn't without the, you know, trials and tribulations, but everything happens for a reason and you just got to kind of trust the process you know your uh

Speaker 1 your dad started in 1987 is that right that's when he started here in vegas he actually had a company in texas before that that didn't do do great so he moved back here and started sierra so i was four

Speaker 2 it's been around for a long time how old are you right now 38. 38 and um

Speaker 2 If you could go back

Speaker 2 to your very first year at Sierra, what advice would you give yourself? Be patient.

Speaker 2 People overestimate what they can do in one year, underestimate what they can do in 10.

Speaker 1 Delayed gratification, right? Like it's below your means. 100%.
Like, just

Speaker 1 when we came out here, I mean, I was making $32,000 a year. My wife was, she came out in 2010.
She wanted to be a realtor.

Speaker 1 Vegas's market wasn't great in 2010 to be a realtor.

Speaker 1 She didn't do a traditional sale for the first three years as a realtor. It was all short sales, bankruptcies.
And so we just, we were patient. We grinded it out.
We learned how to scrap.

Speaker 1 You know, there were days we were wondering if the debit card was going to pay for the McDonald's that day. And that's all right.
Like it taught us how to be scrappy. But I think like

Speaker 1 I got ahead of myself wanting more and getting a little impatient at times throughout that process.

Speaker 1 And I think I would just tell myself, like, enjoy this moment right now because you're going to, you're going to miss it. You're going to miss how simple times were.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I missed that probably in middle school when life was just like it felt like I'm like I can't wait to get older.

Speaker 1 I'm like man.

Speaker 2 I go walk around my old neighborhood of Michigan. I'm like those were the days man like I had to do a couple little homework assignments go hang out with my buddies.

Speaker 2 You know that we me and Bri have been talking this a lot my fiancé is like money of like

Speaker 2 My mom worked three jobs when my mom and dad got a divorce. And I just think back of like, I was like, I had to go shovel snow and mow lawns and get a dishwasher job when I was 12 under the table.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, that kind of created this DNA inside of me to just,

Speaker 2 I hustle, I grind.

Speaker 2 And I'm afraid that like, hey, go get the jet ready, Tommy Jr.

Speaker 1 Let's get that, you know, like,

Speaker 2 it's like,

Speaker 2 but also you don't want to make them suffer if they don't have to. So I don't know the best way to do it.
I'm curious for your advice.

Speaker 1 There are a lot of people out there in the world that probably had a much further head start than you did. And look at where you're at today.

Speaker 1 Right. And so, from a father's standpoint, I'm going to give my kids privilege and I'm going to give them a head start.

Speaker 1 But how I teach them to utilize that head start is what really matters.

Speaker 2 It's like Billy Madison had to rego through school.

Speaker 2 What's one business mistake that all entrepreneurs should avoid when scaling their business? And there's probably several. I got a lot.

Speaker 1 Hiring too fast. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Hiring too fast and scaling too fast. They're scaling revenue before profit.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Bringing people in just for the sake of bringing people in and not making sure you bring the right person in. The right person

Speaker 1 can offset three mediocre hires easily.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think sometimes we hire out of desperation.

Speaker 2 And you don't do the best interviews. You're like, I just, I'm drawn.
I just come in here and see what you could do. And that'll take a company very very quickly.

Speaker 2 That's probably some of the best advice is hire slow, like get the right people, learn how to interview better, maybe even get people for a three-month, pay them as a 1099.

Speaker 2 That's what Kevin O'Leary talked about.

Speaker 2 He's does subcontractors and says, look, I'll pay you more. You come on board.
We see that we both love each other. We do, we say what we're going to do with each other.

Speaker 2 And I think that's a big opportunity. What else do you think is there's so many mistakes?

Speaker 2 I know 10 times more mistakes than I know what went well

Speaker 1 a hundred percent i mean and i i had three great mentors that taught me a lot and i still make a ton of mistakes every day um i hire slow fire fast is is one that i always say to everyone um

Speaker 1 making sure that you're really systematizing everything you do within your business um

Speaker 1 don't just train for the sake of training you have to have a reinforcement plan for all of your training That's one mistake I've seen throughout our portfolio is, you know, we gotta, you know, know, I've been down to your shop, I've seen your training facility, it gave me a lot of inspiration,

Speaker 1 and so we built out a great training program. We forgot the most important part, though, which was making sure that we had reinforcement behind that training.

Speaker 1 To where, when our techs left the training, we had a way to one, measure the effectiveness of the training, and two, measure the manager's ability to reinforce that training once the training was done.

Speaker 2 I love that. Um,

Speaker 2 what's

Speaker 2 What or who has had the greatest influence on you

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 led you to help make the right decisions?

Speaker 1 There's been so many people along the way that I've been blessed to be mentored by.

Speaker 1 Some certain path coaches early on. Bill Weaver was huge.
Next star coach, Scott Brinkley, was huge and teaching me a lot about the business.

Speaker 1 My dad and his partners taught me the gritty side, the process side of the business.

Speaker 1 We work with a consulting company called MAP and our MAP

Speaker 1 is phenomenal. He sucks about him all.
Yeah. He just, he pushes us.
He's got, he's not from the industry. He's.
What's his name? Pepe. Pepe Charles.
Pepe. Pepe Charles.
Yep.

Speaker 1 And he's, he's from food distribution and he asks us questions that we've never even like. thought of asking before.
And I think that's really important.

Speaker 1 Like we all get so caught up in next our Certain Path, whatever industry best practice group is out there, which they're important. Everybody should join them.
I believe in that fullheartedly.

Speaker 1 But you also need to look outside the industry. You need to look for innovation that comes from different industries that you can bring into this industry to

Speaker 1 better your company and organization. Because if everyone just goes to Nextstar Certain Path, whatever the practice, whatever is out there, we're all just going to be doing the same thing.

Speaker 1 So you got to find ways to differentiate yourself.

Speaker 2 I got a few more questions. So you're, this has been great, by the way.
Your dad has had partners in the past.

Speaker 1 I had a partner.

Speaker 2 It's not easy.

Speaker 2 What lessons could you tell me? Partnerships, no partnerships. What are your thoughts?

Speaker 1 It's a marriage, man. Like it's, it's, you're with those partners more than you are with your wife, your kids a lot of time.

Speaker 1 The communication is so critical. Like vision is so critical.
I think most partners stop or start out of necessity because you need extra equity. Right.

Speaker 1 And so you say, hey, let's do this together so I can hedge my risk a little bit.

Speaker 1 And I think if you guys don't spend enough time really plotting out the vision of where you want to go, at some point in time, you're going to come into a roadblock.

Speaker 1 I think my dad and his partners were really lucky. They all brought different strengths to the group.
Somebody always kind of emerges as the alpha when there's partners.

Speaker 1 And I think where my dad and his partners did a good job is they recognized who the alpha was within the group and who was kind of the face and allowed them to lean into that.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, the other partners were able to complement where they needed to be complimented.

Speaker 1 So if you are going to have partners, make sure that they are complimenting you and not the exact same mold that you are.

Speaker 2 That's true. You know, right now I started building out my life at 45.
I'm 42. So I put a lot of things in there where I want to go.

Speaker 2 I'm starting to manifest, reverse engineer, make sure, because I'm not going to wake up and one day, oh, I'm 45. It's like, it's going to take time, effort, energy, and money to become that.

Speaker 2 What do you want by the time you're 45? Where do you want to go? What family trips? If you could have any car, where do you want to build another house?

Speaker 2 Like, what kind of things are you thinking about?

Speaker 1 You know, we're, we're, me and my wife, we're pretty simple people. We, uh, you know, we just want our kids to be happy.
We want to.

Speaker 1 Here's the thing. I want to make sure that whatever I'm doing, whenever the day comes where I got to meet my maker, that he's not disappointed, right? And I think that's what's most important.

Speaker 1 You know, I can have all the dreams and visions I want. I just got to make sure they align with what his dreams and visions are for me.

Speaker 1 So for me, it's really just making sure that whatever we are pushing for, because you got to have goals, right? Like, you know, my wife and I, we want to have $100 million,

Speaker 1 you know, at some point in time. We want to own rental properties.
We want to, you know, start a charity that can support people through the ISR stuff we were talking about.

Speaker 1 I think those goals goals are all important but i think more importantly like like i've got good plans but i god's got way better plans than i've got yeah give it up to him yep

Speaker 2 uh leadership in the trades often requires balance balancing empathy with accountability how do you hold people to the highest standards without burning them out i think it starts with culture um i think a lot of times people think that if you have a good culture, you can't have accountability.

Speaker 1 And I think it's the exact opposite. Like culture isn't, you know, pizza parties.
Culture isn't, you know, dinners.

Speaker 1 Culture is a group of people that come together for a shared vision. And in that shared vision,

Speaker 1 there is a high level of accountability within the organization. And we want to make sure that, you know, iron sharpens irons, that it's competitive, that we're pushing each other.

Speaker 1 And so I think that that's what's most important is that you breed that culture. But when everybody talks about culture, they know that one of the core values of that culture is accountability.

Speaker 2 What's the goal as a company? And I'll just kind of tell you my thoughts on this. A goal of any company other than a 501 3C, what should it be?

Speaker 2 What's the one underlying thing that every company should be focused on?

Speaker 1 EBITDA.

Speaker 2 Profit.

Speaker 2 So, and why is that?

Speaker 1 It's the most important

Speaker 1 metric we have. I mean, that's what creates growth.
That's what allows the organization to provide for the employees. Again, when we create abundance, we're able to share abundance.

Speaker 2 And that's why I think profit units, EIP equity incentive programs, enhancing benefits, newer vehicles, believe it or not, the questions we get are, do I get a new vehicle or is it used?

Speaker 2 That's one of the first questions. Another one is, do we pay weekly or bi-weekly? Now, bi-weekly was awesome because people could save money easier, but a lot of people want weekly.

Speaker 2 It's just crazy because

Speaker 2 never once has somebody been like, tell me about the the dental plan. Or like, you know what I mean? Or no, no one's ever like, man, I really need the best health insurance unless they got

Speaker 2 an underlying issue.

Speaker 2 Most of the people were hiring the average age of like 27. So we're not,

Speaker 2 health is not this massive thing. The benefits package are great, I think.
They could get better and they always can.

Speaker 2 My new HR gal, she's amazing, but she's like, we need to be, I'm like, dude, we're not Silicon Valley. Like, we're a garage store shop.
Like, like, look at this.

Speaker 2 She's like, well, I'm like, I want to have the best, but

Speaker 2 the best in home service, home improvement amongst my peers. I can't compete.
Like, OpenAI is given a $100 million sign-on bonus

Speaker 2 to one of like 20 people that would come on. But I'm like, you got to compare within the industries.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's hard for people to understand that from that don't come from the industry. And I'm like, well, listen, if you're willing to chip in 10% of your paycheck, we could probably do that.

Speaker 2 I'll chip in from mine.

Speaker 2 What are some books that have changed your lives or your life?

Speaker 1 Rockefeller's 38 Letters to His Son is a really, really good book. Like Rockefeller was ruthless, but also

Speaker 1 you can learn so much about business through reading his letters to his son. I think that was just a very,

Speaker 1 you know, when I first saw the book, I was like, who wants to read a bunch of letters? And then you start reading, I like couldn't put the book down. I was just fascinated by it.

Speaker 1 And I love studying like historical leaders.

Speaker 1 I think another one that I love is Off Balance on Purpose. Yeah.
I think that

Speaker 1 helping people determine

Speaker 1 people to understand that work-life balance is a bit of a pipe dream.

Speaker 2 No, you go all in on it at certain phases of your life.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's you're going to move a lot faster if you are intentional about where you're putting your time and your resources.

Speaker 1 I think like Rich Dad, Poor Dad, obviously everybody's read that. Automatic Millionaires, I think a book that every technician should read.

Speaker 2 Did you hear my latest podcast with him?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's so funny.

Speaker 2 David Bach was just on my podcast. Okay.
It hasn't even come out yet. That's so weird that you mentioned that.

Speaker 1 I think it's an amazing book. Pay yourself first.

Speaker 2 Let Compound Address do its work.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 Pay your mortgage a couple extra times a year. Just really simple concepts that can help people get ahead so quickly in life.

Speaker 2 Somebody wants to get a hold of you, RJ. What's the best way to reach out?

Speaker 1 Probably best way is my email, RJ McGee. That's M-A-G-E-E at CR Cools L V.com.

Speaker 2 You should open a bar called McGee's. That's all I'm saying.
The Irish pub.

Speaker 2 And finally, I'm just going to let you close us out. Whatever final thoughts, whatever you want the listeners to listen to.
I really appreciate our time.

Speaker 2 And there was a little bit of time and confusion, so thanks for hanging out for a bit.

Speaker 1 No, it's just great. I really appreciate it.
I think, you know, my thing is just remembering that, you know, not every day is promised, like you said.

Speaker 1 Be really intentional with your family. We're all really business operators.
We're really driven entrepreneurs and that's that's great.

Speaker 1 I think sometimes remembering that's the easy part of our lives and making sure we show up as good husbands, good fathers, and really investing in that future is a lot of times more important than maybe that extra phone call you want to take or that extra meeting you want to book that day

Speaker 2 well not being a father uh

Speaker 2 you know everybody's like get it out of the way early i'm like shit i was stupid i didn't have any money i don't know i mean it's fine but i'm like now i'm just going to be an old ass dad so it's all right all right jay this has been a blast brother thank you very much appreciate you Hey there, thanks for tuning into the podcast today.

Speaker 2 Before I let you go, I want to let everybody know that Elevate is out and ready to buy. I can share with you how I attracted a winning team of over 700 employees in over 20 states.

Speaker 2 The insights in this book are powerful and can be applied to any business or organization.

Speaker 2 It's a real game changer for anyone looking to build and develop a high-performing team like over here at A1 Garage Door Service.

Speaker 2 So, if you want to learn the secrets to help me transfer my team from stealing the toilet paper to a group of 700-plus employees rowing in the same direction, head over to elevateandwin.com forward slash podcast and grab a copy of the book.

Speaker 2 Thanks again for listening, and we'll catch up with you next time on the podcast.