How My Parents Raised an Expert Communicator

Speaker 1 This is Marshawn Beast Mode Lynch. Prize Pick is making sports season even more fun.
On Prize Picks, whether you're a football fan, a basketball fan, it always feels good to be right.

Speaker 1 And right now, new users get $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first $5. The app is simple to use.
Pick two or more players, pick more or less on their stat projections.

Speaker 1 Anything from touchdown to threes, and if you're right, you can win big. Mix and match players from any sport on PrizePicks, Prize America's number one daily fantasy sports app.

Speaker 1 PrizePicks is available in 40-plus states, including California, Texas, Florida, and Georgia. Most importantly, all the transactions on the app are fast, safe, and secure.

Speaker 3 Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Spotify to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code Spotify to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.

Speaker 3 PrizePicks, it's good to be right. Must be present in a certain sense.
Visit PrizePicks.com for restrictions and details.

Speaker 4 Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, where I'm on a mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything.

Speaker 4 If you enjoyed learning tools to improve your communication, I'm going to ask you to please follow this podcast. And if you would, leave a review.
My new book, The Next Conversation, is out to order.

Speaker 4 You can find the links there in the show notes, as well as my School of Communication and membership.

Speaker 4 Today, I am, I cannot be any more excited to be speaking and bringing to you some people that mean the absolute world to me, where it all started. And that would be my parents.

Speaker 2 Hey, mom. Hello.

Speaker 4 Hey, mama. Hey, dad.
How are y'all? I'm doing great. Awesome.
I want to, are y'all comfortable? You're all good?

Speaker 4 So for anybody listening, this is the very first time I've ever had a guest. And so I want to make sure that my first guest that I ever had was going to be y'all.

Speaker 4 And make sure that this was important to me and that y'all knew how much I loved y'all and how thankful I am for everything you've done done for me.

Speaker 4 This is the very first time I've had guests, so we're just gonna make it work. That anybody listening, they know how my style is, and they know that this is just

Speaker 4 a casual conversation. There's none of this that is pre-done or set up.
Y'all really don't have any idea.

Speaker 4 What I was gonna ask you,

Speaker 4 and mom, you look beautiful. I know you're worried about what y'all are gonna wear.
Y'all did, you did great.

Speaker 2 I wore whatever sheet tells you.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's a good idea yeah um so i want to make sure we're we're all good and comfortable and uh so i have some have some questions there's some that i i pulled from people that uh follow my content that i put out on social media and i

Speaker 4 i also had some of my own so i want to

Speaker 4 here's my my plan for this is for anybody listening we're going to talk a few things about Jefferson because I know there's some curiosity of how did this guy get so weird about communication and on this other end of making sure that we're giving very practical solutions and techniques of how y'all raised me and my siblings I'm the oldest of four for anybody that doesn't know how y'all

Speaker 4 kind of laid a strategy for how you wanted to be parents so I'm going to ask right at the outset is what was

Speaker 4 the main themes and thoughts and hopes and prayers before you had children, before you had me meet anybody out there that is hoping to have children, or they have very new kids.

Speaker 4 What were some of the things that was very important to y'all?

Speaker 2 Sherilyn, you go with that one.

Speaker 4 Yeah, this is my mama, Sherilyn.

Speaker 2 Sherilyn? Yeah, Sherilyn.

Speaker 4 I've always called her mama, so she

Speaker 2 always calls me mama. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, of course, you always want your children

Speaker 2 to love the Lord and

Speaker 2 to be respectful and kind.

Speaker 2 But I do remember praying for you that God would give you charisma.

Speaker 2 And I feel like he answered that in spades for you.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And what do you think it is about with charisma?

Speaker 4 How do you define that?

Speaker 2 Charisma to me is where somebody just.

Speaker 2 You're very likable and they like you. They don't even realize why they like you.

Speaker 2 But they just know they like you. Yeah.
That God would just give you favor wherever you went. And you always had lots of friends and

Speaker 2 your teachers loved you. Yeah.
So, you know, I feel like he answered that.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I feel like it's a

Speaker 4 the people that are charismatic tend to be very warm. Yes.

Speaker 2 It's just something about them that you're always very caring.

Speaker 4 Like to listen to them. Well, I feel like, I mean, you had when until Sarah, my sister, was born, it was just me and you

Speaker 2 Really for four years. Absolutely.
So how, I mean, that's a very pivotal time now that I've spent a lot of time with you one-on-one.

Speaker 4 How was that?

Speaker 2 You wore me out. You talked.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You talked 24-7

Speaker 2 from the time your eyes opened to the time they closed. You talked to me all day long.

Speaker 2 He was born talking. Yes, yes.
In fact, I remember when I put you in Mother's Day Out, I had to fill out on their form,

Speaker 2 when did your child first start talking? And I put as long as I can remember.

Speaker 2 And because I was serious, I was like, when did he,

Speaker 2 as long as I can remember? Yes.

Speaker 2 I'm sure by eight months, you were saying one words, you know.

Speaker 2 And then by a year, I had a whole list of 20-plus words you were saying. And by 15 months, you were saying sentences.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 I remember a mirror

Speaker 4 in the way the living room was set up, there was a mirror behind the couch.

Speaker 2 You drove me crazy, yes.

Speaker 4 And why?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 behind our couch was an entire mirror on the wall

Speaker 2 just to make your living room look larger. But it was your complete mirror.
You would get on the back of the couch on your knees, make faces, talk to yourself.

Speaker 4 And I never do that. I never talk to myself.

Speaker 4 I'm so glad I grew out of that.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, you would make faces.

Speaker 2 And so, if I were fussing at you on the couch, instead of looking at me, you're looking at yourself in the mirror to see how pitiful you look while you're crying or answering me. It was hilarious.

Speaker 2 And finally, I would say, David, you've got to take this mirror down. I'd come home from work.

Speaker 2 I'd come home from work. And she says, David, you've got to get this mirror off this wall.
It's driving me crazy. When he's crying, he looks in the mirror to see how much he can look pitiful.

Speaker 2 You got to get this. You got to get rid of it.
You You were very drama.

Speaker 4 Yeah, very drama.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you were.

Speaker 4 Well, it was, I mean, for four years, it was just me. So I was...

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, it was cute. It was cute.
But after a while, I got irritated because when I wanted you looking at me, you were looking at yourself in the mirror behind me.

Speaker 4 Right. I'm with you.
Dad, I want to make sure and ask, this is my dad, David.

Speaker 4 For you...

Speaker 4 I'm going to kind of post that same question. What were some of your goals before having

Speaker 4 kids and me coming into the world?

Speaker 4 for any

Speaker 2 not just because it was me but because any child you're you're now a father you know what were some of the main themes I can't think of any goals that I had before but I do remember specifically praying over you as as a child as an infant before we go to you go to bed and we'd always you know we'd tell stories and usually I'd put you in the story where you were the hero you know the Prince Jefferson was kind of come save Queen Sherilyn from the dragon you know so

Speaker 2 you loved oh you just giggle and laugh. You love those kind of stories.

Speaker 2 But the thing that I really remember and I believe has been a moving force in your life is I pray, so dear God, give Jefferson wisdom and always be his friend.

Speaker 2 And that's how we ended prayers.

Speaker 2 And he's done that.

Speaker 2 And I believe that. I think it's so important for parents to bless their children, say good things over them.
Speak good things over them.

Speaker 2 Don't, I've seen other parents, you know, where they say, oh, you're a little monster or you're a little meanie.

Speaker 2 No, no, just speak kindness over them. Speak encouraging words, things that build them up of what you want them to be.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I believe it happens. I really saw that in your life.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 And when

Speaker 4 I was,

Speaker 4 as long as I can remember, you've prayed that prayer. I mean, as long as I can remember,

Speaker 4 I truly credited

Speaker 4 y'all's prayers for for how I've turned out. I've had a little bit to do with it, but for the most part, I mean, a lot of what y'all put me in

Speaker 4 positioned me. And so this is really for the parents that are listening or people that are wanting to have kids or maybe you have nieces and nephews.

Speaker 4 It matters when you have... goals and themes and a focus of where your heart is and how it develops their character.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I can remember my mother doing the same thing to me. Oh, David, you're so smart to know how to do that.

Speaker 2 And it really builds a child up when you do that. And we do the same thing with you.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 you're so smart and you are so thoughtful. You speak kindness and you speak edifying words over your children.
And I believe they become that.

Speaker 2 Now, if you tell the kid he's a horrible person or you're such a bad kid or you're always doing something wrong, well, that's what they a lot of times become.

Speaker 4 Yeah, they kind kind of absorb what they see if you're always absolutely

Speaker 4 what they have.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Now, I am

Speaker 4 also curious. I'm going to ask this to mom, Mama, what do you, how did you see the dynamic between

Speaker 4 once, so I'm the oldest of four, there's Sarah, Jonathan, Jacob. Once Sarah was born, Jonathan, Jacob, you know, how did you see me being from

Speaker 4 a one child

Speaker 4 by myself to now kind of taking on this role as brother and how did you feel like you saw that develop in me and little things maybe you saw in communication and the reason why is I'm asking is so that anybody listening can spot some things of like how they saw

Speaker 4 the oldest child versus the youngest child and how you saw some of those dynamics change in our house

Speaker 2 well when i was pregnant with Sarah,

Speaker 2 I just didn't want you to feel left out. And I remember telling you when I was pregnant, this is going to be your baby sister.
She's going to be your baby sister.

Speaker 2 And you were so excited when she was born and very protective of her and

Speaker 2 very proud. I don't feel like you were ever jealous of her.
And I feel like with each one, you just kind of just enlarge your brother, big brother role. You were always very kind,

Speaker 2 very protective of them.

Speaker 2 And even with Sarah, she was kind of a late talker because you talked for her.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 She would point, and you'd go, Mama, she wants this.

Speaker 4 Yeah, and then when Jonathan

Speaker 2 for him. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 Jonathan, my younger brother, Jonathan, couldn't say his vowels very well. And so

Speaker 4 consonants thinking about it.

Speaker 2 We called him the vowel man. The first consonant of every word he dropped off.
Yeah. That's called him our vowel man.

Speaker 4 Yeah, and that's that was what he did. So I just kind of became that.

Speaker 2 I loved, I still love being Big Brother.

Speaker 4 There's a theme that I pick up on, and I'm sure anybody who's listening senses this from you, Mama, and is just the kindness. I don't know a single person or human that does not like mama.

Speaker 4 And so you've always radiated kindness. Thank you.
And yeah, of course.

Speaker 4 And I got to see a lot of that growing up because I can remember coming and saying that somebody had done something that made me upset. And I'd bring it to you to complain.

Speaker 4 And you'd say, well, were you kind?

Speaker 4 And I'd say, but, but mom, you don't understand. They got it.
And you didn't, you wouldn't have any of it. You'd just say, well, I think you should be kind.
I mean,

Speaker 2 that was the whole

Speaker 4 outlook from that. So how do you see kindness?

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 what does it mean to you?

Speaker 4 How do you like to put it out into the world? What's your secret?

Speaker 2 Oh, goodness. I don't know if there is a secret.
But kindness matters.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I just, you always had such a sweetheart. You had a very sweetheart.

Speaker 2 I think you were naturally kind.

Speaker 2 But I wouldn't let y'all be rude and ugly to each other. When y'all were fighting, I wouldn't let you name call or any of that.
I would say, no, y'all are going to be sweet to each other.

Speaker 2 Had a zero tolerance for unkindness among the siblings. You aren't going to do that.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 Well, I mean, you had a,

Speaker 4 I can remember there was, there was, it was very early on for people listening in the South, it's yes, ma'am, no, ma'am. That is a sign of respect and manners.
And

Speaker 4 if you said it, you expected that to be it.

Speaker 2 Yes. Like, I didn't really like a lot of arguing.
I'd just say, all I need to hear is just, ma'am. Yeah, that's, that's.
All I want to hear is just now.

Speaker 4 That's that's very true i think i just got i think i just had ptsd for a second

Speaker 2 here and all that uh yeah well i'm just if there's no sense in arguing about it you're talking about kindness and this the role that you stepped into is you you took ownership yes you felt that they were they really were yours

Speaker 2 your brothers and your sisters you know they'd call you and you'd and you would create a persona chef bubba yeah

Speaker 2 and you loved you loved, you asked really, can we quit having babysitters? Can I babysit?

Speaker 2 You know, you took that ownership and it was probably a lot of

Speaker 2 pressure.

Speaker 2 A lot of kids aren't asked to do things like that. You seemed to enjoy it and thrive with it.
And it really made you mature.

Speaker 2 Way, way early. You were kind of an old soul, even though you were a kid.

Speaker 2 And you were, in a way, almost like a second father. Because there was a little distance in time, but you did it because you enjoyed

Speaker 2 them. Yeah.
And you poured yourself into them.

Speaker 2 Y'all were talking a second ago about how your mother was kind. And so you were very defensive about that.
And I remember the story where that boy came up to you in day school and said, you're mean.

Speaker 2 And you came up and you pushed him down.

Speaker 2 You were only four. You pushed him down and said, My mama is not mean.

Speaker 2 And I was like, Jefferson, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 2 And so you just, you were defensive for your parents, too.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Very, very defensive.
I mean, it's one thing for you to say something about your mama, but somebody else says something about your mama.

Speaker 4 Those are fighting words

Speaker 4 every single time. I want to turn gears a little bit to specifically conflict and arguments.

Speaker 4 I remember in y'all's and growing up in our house,

Speaker 4 y'all really did not argue in front of us. I mean, there were just normal spats, but when it came to serious arguing, y'all did it in y'all's room because I can remember like keeping the kids away.

Speaker 4 I was like, mom and dad are talking. Y'all go down the hall.

Speaker 4 Let's, you know, go entertain them for whatever. And then,

Speaker 4 or

Speaker 4 if it was late at night, after the kids go to bed. And I was older, so it wasn't like,

Speaker 4 and it wasn't that big of a house. I mean, if y'all were talking seriously, you could hear voices.
I didn't know what y'all were saying.

Speaker 4 Outside of when we were in the car, we, of course, if you're late, late for church, everybody is just, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Taking off on vacation.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, on vacation for sure. Then you have to hear argument.
But

Speaker 4 I'm curious on y'all's take about

Speaker 4 for people who are just rethinking how they saw arguments happen in their life. I'm curious how you saw it with your parents and how that shaped

Speaker 4 how y'all did it with us, specifically conflict.

Speaker 2 I know with my parents, they didn't argue in front of us very often. They did the same thing back in the bedroom rule.
And I think that's a really good policy.

Speaker 2 And the truth is, because if you get into a heated argument in front of the kids, they almost always blame themselves.

Speaker 2 What did I do wrong?

Speaker 2 What did I do wrong? That's a good point. Oh, I should have done something.
And they internalize it. And so we really,

Speaker 2 we were friends for long before we got married. And we just,

Speaker 2 I think we both agreed we're not going to have that kind of argument in front of the children.

Speaker 2 Now, it's important for them to know that you disagree sometimes. And we would disagree.
And I would say that a marriage never has arguments.

Speaker 2 Because they need to see then after the argument, they need to see mom and daddy holding hands,

Speaker 2 mom and daddy hugging, mom and daddy kissing, to know that you can argue

Speaker 2 and still love each other.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that's just crucial. There's some people who keep the conflict so far away from the kids, the kids don't have any way to process it.

Speaker 2 And then there's some kids who they are in the middle of just horrible conflict.

Speaker 2 And neither of those extremes are really healthy for kids.

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 4 I totally agree because there's the flip side of you don't want to have zero conflict where you only have conflict in the bedroom.

Speaker 2 If you have conflict, something's wrong.

Speaker 4 Exactly. And so one thing y'all are so good at that I know I've applied to my marriage is y'all are very quick to forgive.
Y'all are very quick to say, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 I think that plays a big role in

Speaker 4 long the argument lasts. Because if you just, for people who withhold that apology, like they use it almost as a punishment in a way when they're withholding that.
But I absolutely agree that

Speaker 4 on the flip side, having knockdown drag out arguments is not healthy. At the same time, you want to see, you want the kids to see you come to resolution.

Speaker 2 Right, right.

Speaker 4 But I've had that too, where it is

Speaker 4 my son thinks that he did something wrong when we're arguing, or he'll say,

Speaker 4 or he'll mistake just banter and playful banter as argument, as conflict. And we kind of have to say, no, no, no, no, we're not, we're not arguing.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 And so, and I think some kids are very perceptive of that, more sensitive to that. Like my daughter could really care less.

Speaker 4 But son is

Speaker 4 especially in tune with what we're talking about. I mean, and you remember,

Speaker 4 I won't, I'm not going to say his name, but but I was, I grew up with a friend who lived not too far down the street. And his parents argued

Speaker 4 in front of us, like really did.

Speaker 4 And I remember looking like, is everything okay?

Speaker 4 And he just acted like nothing happened. I mean, just kept eating his cereal.

Speaker 2 I mean, never,

Speaker 4 never looked up, never, yeah. And I think so many people are now realizing.
in their own life how they handle conflict, you know, having, having that struggle to apologize, having those hard times.

Speaker 4 times, they don't, they're now seeing that reflected of how they grew up.

Speaker 4 So I'm curious, Mom,

Speaker 2 how did you grow up with conflict?

Speaker 2 No, my parents argued in front of us and I didn't feel like that was a good thing.

Speaker 4 So you saw the negative.

Speaker 2 It would escalate and

Speaker 2 you know, I saw the yelling knockdown dragouts. Yeah.
And it was not good. So I determined in my heart that I was never going to do that to my children.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And so I wasn't a yeller. I really wasn't.
That's true.

Speaker 4 I can attest to that.

Speaker 2 I really wasn't a yeller.

Speaker 2 Very rarely. Very rarely.

Speaker 2 But my level,

Speaker 2 because I maintained a really calm voice most of the time, like if I raised my voice because I was aggravated, let's say on a scale of one to ten, I raised it to a four,

Speaker 2 y'all would say, Mama, you don't need to yell. And I would be very offended because, in my mind, that was only a four.
Yeah. Because I was like, no, no, no, you don't understand.

Speaker 2 I used to hear 15 at my house. Right.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So, um, a little bit different. Yeah.
I would be highly offended because I was like, this is not yelling. This is just raising my voice.
Yeah. Because I'm aggravated.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You, you said one other thing.

Speaker 2 thing a little bit earlier I think it's really important is the willingness and the not the only the willingness but to do it to say I'm sorry yeah I was wrong in front of your kids. Yes.

Speaker 2 Now, whether it's

Speaker 2 say that to my wife, I was wrong. I'm sorry.
And, but to say it to your kids. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because sometimes we can misjudge what they did or why they did it. Or, you know, maybe one, they're picking on each other and one started it and you jump to a conclusion too quickly.

Speaker 2 And it's important to be able to say, I'm sorry, I was wrong. Right.
I was wrong. Will you forgive me? Yeah.
And I think that's really important for dads, especially.

Speaker 2 Because I know people who say, my dad never said he was sorry. Yeah.
And I just can't imagine that. I mean,

Speaker 2 we mess up regularly.

Speaker 2 You need to tell people, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
I was wrong.

Speaker 4 I think that's a crucial point. It's not just to apologize.
Not just so your kid hears you apologize to your spouse.

Speaker 4 But also that they hear, I am sorry.

Speaker 2 Sure, because you're not perfect either.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 2 And that's not a sign of weakness. Yeah.
That's a sign of strength.

Speaker 2 In my mind, that's a strength strength to say I'm secure enough about myself to admit that I was wrong. Yeah.

Speaker 2 What can we do to fix it?

Speaker 4 Yeah. Confidence is

Speaker 4 not all about only saying it when you're right.

Speaker 4 It's admitting when you're wrong. That's where the confidence is.

Speaker 2 I'm not secure people can't say I'm sorry and I was wrong. Yeah, that's very true.

Speaker 4 When you see

Speaker 4 now kind of where this whole thing is taken in my life, just the whole social media thing.

Speaker 4 I'm curious,

Speaker 4 this is aside from communication advice for a second, because I get this question of, you know, what do your parents think?

Speaker 4 Usually what Sierra thinks, what's the family thing, what do y'all think about all of this stuff when I first told y'all, like, hey, I'm having some people follow me

Speaker 4 on social media, and then you continue to see it grow. So, Mom, I'm curious how you've seen it from your end.

Speaker 2 I think it's crazy how it's

Speaker 2 your followers have just increased exponentially. Right.
But you being a good communicator does not surprise me. Right.
I guess just the social media aspect,

Speaker 2 I think your generation is more in tune with that and

Speaker 2 the Instagram and all the other social formats. But

Speaker 2 no, as far as you communicating well, that did not surprise me. You have communicated well ever since you were two and three and four.
You've been an excellent communicator. Yeah.

Speaker 2 In fact, I remember, and I guess because I talked to you all day long, and like you said, it was the two of us

Speaker 2 at home. I remember at church one day,

Speaker 2 a friend of mine coming and saying, hey, Sherilyn, I just asked Jefferson if he'd seen his mama, and he said, huh? She's in the auditorium. She goes, What three-year-old says auditorium? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I said, I don't know. I guess that's the way we talk to him at home.
But you were an excellent communicator. Yeah.

Speaker 4 He always would say.

Speaker 2 Talk, talk, talk.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that I talked a lot. And that was the thing, and I was quick-witted.
I think that was the

Speaker 4 pull from there. And I don't know who I got that from.
Probably a combination of you both. Because I grew up seeing dad

Speaker 4 very diplomatic. Dad's the peacemaker.
Everywhere he goes, he's definitely the peacemaker. Where we have other cousins and other family, they're not that way.
They're much more bull in a china closet.

Speaker 4 I mean,

Speaker 4 they'll rip you one side and down the other. But dad's always been the diplomatic.

Speaker 4 And then

Speaker 4 you, I feel like, have always had a sense of just warmth. You're very loving personality.

Speaker 4 Like you're not rough at all. So you're very easy to talk to.

Speaker 4 And I think the combination of that led to a lot of my philosophies and how I began to communicate early on. Dad, what do you think about this social media stuff?

Speaker 2 I think it's amazing. I think it's just wonderful.

Speaker 2 It's just a different generation of communicating. So I think God just put you in that niche just at the right time.
And it took off much farther than you ever anticipated. Right.
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 Good see. And I know that created a lot of anxiety.

Speaker 2 I've seen a lot of that calm down.

Speaker 2 I think it's been a wonderful platform for you. And I can't tell you how many friends that I've had from high school, college, and law school said, hey, man, was that Jefferson's?

Speaker 2 You know, is that your son? And I said, that's got to be your son. I saw that video, you know, and it looked like you're sounded like you're the kind of thing I know you would have said.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it's been really neat. What's really neat is to see friends of mine on Facebook who will tag you and share one of your posts to one of their kids.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 And when it first started to happen, I kind of sent them a private message. I said, you know, that's my son.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, I wondered if it was or not. That's funny.
It's been neat to have friends

Speaker 2 who have come across it. You know, people of our generation, our older generation,

Speaker 2 that's kind of the Facebook crowd. The Facebook crowds,

Speaker 2 the 50s through 80s,

Speaker 2 in age, but

Speaker 2 it's been a neat experience.

Speaker 2 It's been a neat experience. And

Speaker 2 what's rewarding to me is that we've done some things right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And to see the post and the comments from people

Speaker 2 because it's given you an opportunity really to minister to a lot of people. Yeah.
I've had friends tell me, oh, I used Jefferson's thing the other day, and they listened to one of your

Speaker 2 posts and they said, oh, telling that it really helped me. It worked.

Speaker 4 Yeah, well, that's good.

Speaker 2 That's a good. I'm glad it's helping.

Speaker 4 That's good.

Speaker 4 There's so much of it, of people asking, how did you get this way? Where do you get all this stuff?

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 I always tell them, like, what I share is not something you read. anywhere else.

Speaker 4 It's just part of my experience.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 4 And y'all have seen.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 4 I just wanted to make sure that we shared some things about communication advice, some things about me personally that people have just been curious about. And I'm just,

Speaker 4 I find that when I say it has to do a lot with my experience, major part of that is y'all, just

Speaker 4 my parents.

Speaker 4 If I had been born to two different people, it would have been a... totally different person.

Speaker 2 You know, when you were speaking earlier,

Speaker 2 it brought to my mind that one other thing I did pray for,

Speaker 2 I prayed, Lord, just help this child have the best of both of us.

Speaker 2 I did. I pray for you to have the best of both of us.
Yeah. And so I feel like he gave you that.

Speaker 2 I agree. I agree.

Speaker 4 And it's been

Speaker 4 such a cool experience. Like, I never thought we'd be doing a podcast and getting to interview my parents.
That's cool.

Speaker 4 And the whole thing has just been wild. Anybody who's followed me me and listening knows how left field this has come for me.
But that's kind of part of the authenticity of

Speaker 4 there's never been a motive. There's never been a,

Speaker 4 I want to do this with this. So it's just been fun to enjoy it.

Speaker 2 It's come a long way from the little I'm a lawyer ad. Yeah.

Speaker 2 A little discussion was that

Speaker 2 almost three years ago. Yeah, right about.
And boy, it's completely changed to something really, really productive.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it really, it really has

Speaker 4 been fun to be part of. I mean, I can't believe it's happening.

Speaker 2 Well, I'm very proud of you. And I just want to say that

Speaker 2 when people see your 30-second little post that you do,

Speaker 2 that's really who you are. That is not an act.
That is genuinely who you are. Yeah.
And we're so proud of you. Thank you very much.

Speaker 4 I appreciate that. I want to take a second right now and tell you about a sponsor of this podcast, and they're called Cozy Earth.

Speaker 4 The reason why I said yes to Cozy Earth is because their sheets sheets are on my bed right now. I've used them for months, if not years, and they're the best.
My wife loves their pajamas.

Speaker 4 I love their hoodies and their sweatshirts. So, if you want to be home and you're like me, you just want to be cozy and comfortable.

Speaker 4 You can go to cozyearth.com/slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off. That's cozyearth.com/slash Jefferson and use the code Jefferson for 40% off.

Speaker 4 So, one major question that I see a lot of people asking is

Speaker 4 how did you teach, I say me, but really all of us, all of my siblings, the balance between being assertive, meaning not being a wallflower and getting stepped over, how do you also balance kindness?

Speaker 4 You want to not be rude to somebody, but at the same time, you want to be very direct. I'm curious if y'all had any

Speaker 4 mindset or tools for how you thought or how you gave me advice about that. Like, for example, dad, you would tell me, if I came to complain about something, you'd say, don't make that your LMO.

Speaker 4 That's what you'd say. You'd say, don't make that your LMO.
In other words, don't be that, let that be the hill to die on.

Speaker 4 And there was this kind of sense of

Speaker 4 so,

Speaker 4 you know, I mean, the kind of the when Jonathan was upset that mom was all in his business and he's in mom just and you'd say so. I mean, there are just things about

Speaker 4 that I'm just curious what the balance was like for y'all what y'all saw

Speaker 2 you gonna go first you go ahead

Speaker 2 I don't remember you having a problem with assertiveness you were always very assertive you were never timid and you did it with a cheerful disposition so you had a very cheerful assertive disposition as a child

Speaker 2 and you were rarely disrespectful And because we had a zero tolerance for that, you quickly, quickly stopped.

Speaker 2 And so I don't remember us having to encourage you to be assertive. What I can remember doing is

Speaker 2 sitting down and

Speaker 2 explaining maybe how do you deal with disappointments or something that didn't go well. Just say, well, you know, don't worry about it.
Right. And be thankful.

Speaker 2 That was one thing y'all hated, you know, to say, well, give me 10 things that you're thankful for. Yeah.
And that's a good way to do it with a child.

Speaker 2 And, you know, when you start, well, I'm thankful for daddy and mama and,

Speaker 2 you know, Sarah and Jonathan. No, no, not family members.
What are some things you're thankful for?

Speaker 2 The downside was when I'd get upset, y'all would turn it on me and say, Daddy, there's 10 things you're thankful for.

Speaker 2 Turn about was fair play. But

Speaker 2 y'all really were. Y'all were sweet children.

Speaker 2 And I give that to your mama because

Speaker 2 she demanded

Speaker 2 respect, not only for herself and for the parents, but for y'all to respect each other. Yeah.
And to defend each other and to be kind to one another.

Speaker 2 I don't remember y'all ever coming to blows.

Speaker 4 No, no, that was never in the question.

Speaker 2 And, you know, every now and then y'all would nyan ya.

Speaker 2 But she really did a good job of saying

Speaker 2 that's enough. Yeah.

Speaker 4 How did you see that, mom? Maybe not with just assertiveness, but

Speaker 4 on top of how you,

Speaker 4 when we say zero tolerance policy, what was your mindset of

Speaker 4 how you would handle me or any of us when we said something that was disrespectful, which I'm sure was very few times, Mama.

Speaker 2 I can just, I just remember saying, you're not going to talk to me like that. That's not acceptable to me.

Speaker 2 You say yes, ma'am, no, ma'am. And sometimes it's not only what you say, but the tone.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, and I'd say you better watch your tone. Yes.

Speaker 2 Would you like to say that again? Yes. A little bit more respectfully.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Mama would always say, let me tell you something.

Speaker 2 Let me tell you something.

Speaker 2 I can say that a lot. I can remember you being just in your little infant stroller.
Yeah. You were a very strong-willed child.
Right. Not in a mean way, but you were very strong-willed.
You all were.

Speaker 2 And you'd go over and start, you know, knocking off the magazines. And,

Speaker 2 you know, even from a very young child, we'd, you know, just not hurting you, but spat your hand or say, no, don't do that.

Speaker 2 And then you'd go back and you'd do it again, and we'd have to discipline you then again and discipline you again and maybe do it four or five times at a row.

Speaker 2 And finally, that fourth or fifth time, you go up to it and look at it and look at us to see whether we're watching.

Speaker 2 And we'd just look at you and you'd pull the hand back and you'd scoot off and do something different. In his walker.
In your walker. I mean, that's when you were those little bitty walkers.

Speaker 2 And so I think that

Speaker 2 we were consistent. Yes, that's part of it right there.

Speaker 2 And that's what's so hard for parents is they'll do it a couple times or say, well, I'm going to count to three. No, no, we don't do that.
If I tell you... to stop, stop.

Speaker 2 And if you don't, then there's a little bit of, not being abusive in any way, but there's a repercussion.

Speaker 2 But you were a people pleaser in the sense that you wanted your parents to be happy to you.

Speaker 2 In fact, that's what you would say when you were a child. If we would discipline you, you'd say, please be happy to me.
Yeah. Be happy to me.
And you'd want to be held. And so you wanted to please us.

Speaker 2 And so it hurt your heart to know any displeasure. Right.
And so it's in, but it's important for children to know the boundaries. boundaries.

Speaker 2 And it's important to be consistent. Yeah, to be consistent.
And it's so hard for a parent to stay consistent. Yeah.
And they do it a couple of times and it's just worn you out.

Speaker 2 Kids are looking for boundaries

Speaker 2 and they're always going to push them. Yeah.
And you want them to do that. It means there's something, they've got a strong personality.
Which is good. Which is good.
You just got to mold it. Right.

Speaker 2 In a way that's

Speaker 2 helpful without breaking their spirit. And you can do it.

Speaker 2 You're not going to break their spirit by spatting their hand.

Speaker 2 You just want to.

Speaker 2 And it was barely. Just like, no, no.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah, no, it was not like a...

Speaker 4 Yeah, it was not like a bank in hard on that.

Speaker 2 It's amazing how smart children are.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 4 you would always,

Speaker 4 as I got to see,

Speaker 4 like we talked about, being kind of a second dad. with Sarah, Jonathan, Jacob, and seeing that.

Speaker 4 I found myself a lot of times in the role as the mediator very early on with that to where a lot of the problems didn't, I kind of took it as like a thing of, I didn't want the problems to hit y'all's plate.

Speaker 4 And not and not, but not in a bad way. It became like a thing that I enjoyed.

Speaker 4 I also know, I mean, just being reflective and open with my personality. And I can see that in my son, like I'm very, I was very perceptive of emotions, like how you were feeling.

Speaker 4 And so

Speaker 4 even now, like if I watch a movie and there's an awkward moment, I can't take it. If there's a conflict, even in the movie, like, ugh, like because I can feel it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 Jed has the same exact thing. And so I'm curious how you saw

Speaker 4 that transition

Speaker 4 with how I handled my emotions.

Speaker 4 And maybe there could be some nuggets in there of how we can teach some other people people to recognize that in their kids and what like emotional intelligence means to you.

Speaker 2 Well, I feel like you were always

Speaker 2 confident.

Speaker 2 You were confident

Speaker 2 and you were very kind and caring. And so if the siblings were fighting, you did want to mediate.
You did want them to, hey, hey, hey, what are y'all doing? You know,

Speaker 2 even without me telling you to do that. It's like I didn't expect you to be the mom.
And I remember one time saying, Jefferson, I'm the mama. Yeah, that did happen.

Speaker 2 You know, because I was like, no, no, no, I'm here. I'm the mama.

Speaker 2 So a lot of it you took on yourself

Speaker 2 to do that.

Speaker 2 But they adored you. Yeah.
They all just, and they still do.

Speaker 4 Yeah. We have a very close relationship with

Speaker 4 my siblings still. But yeah, that was definitely, I mean, you were always there.

Speaker 2 I was there. You were always there.
And sometimes you helped more than I wanted you to.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's no doubt, I'm sure.

Speaker 4 But yeah, I find that

Speaker 4 people who are really good at reading others' emotions, I mean, and we could even talk about this in like the legal space too, as we're both attorneys. And

Speaker 4 some of the most excellent communicators are those that can have high emotional intelligence and can read emotions in others' faces.

Speaker 2 Just have that intuition.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 they can know how to say things a certain way

Speaker 4 to produce a certain outcome based on what they know about those people's emotions.

Speaker 4 And so I've seen that even with

Speaker 4 our son. And when he wants to, let's say, play a video game, which we do not allow until maybe a Saturday afternoon for like an hour.

Speaker 4 And the way he asks the question, it's so funny, like every time he asks the question changes every week because he's like trying a different way to

Speaker 4 get in there. Now he's using his sister of using her as what she would want and like seeing if I would give more preference to her versus

Speaker 2 exactly. I remember taking with the dairy queen and he wanted to throw away a paper napkin.

Speaker 4 That's my son. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's your son. And he wanted to throw it away.
I said, no, not now. We're still eating ice cream.
He goes, well, it would make me very happy if I could go throw

Speaker 2 this piece of paper. First, he said, first, my mama lets me or my daddy lets me throw it away.
I said, said, Well, your mom and daddy aren't here. You're not going to do that.

Speaker 2 He says, Well, next, he then went to, it would make me very happy, very happy, Papa, to do that. I said, Well, I'm sorry, but we're not going to do that.
He stopped and ate some more ice cream.

Speaker 2 And then he said,

Speaker 2 It makes me very sad. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So he was, he was, yeah, he was trying to find

Speaker 4 a different angle.

Speaker 2 He was trying to find that hole in the fence. You did that too, though.
You did that,

Speaker 2 yeah. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, you did that too.

Speaker 4 Just trying to find a way to. I think that that really developed a lot of my

Speaker 4 how I come up with little phrases or metaphors or twists for things of how to say a, like I like wordsmithing.

Speaker 4 And so I think that helped develop that at a very early age.

Speaker 2 You had a knack for memorizing scripts like in Disney movies and dialogues.

Speaker 2 Very, very gifted with that. And then then knew how to use it.
Yeah. And it was neat.

Speaker 4 Yeah, and that's kind of developed

Speaker 4 what we're doing now. Well, I want to make sure and leave people with if there is any thoughts that you have as a parent, not of a parent of Jefferson, just a parent of any child.

Speaker 4 and what you find to be one of the biggest things that they can do to help give them confidence in how they communicate, maybe open them up.

Speaker 4 And we already talked about how it's great to apologize to them and let them see that. I think it's great that you encouraged me to

Speaker 4 not see problems as big as they needed to be. You'd say, is that going to be your alamo? Is that really going to be that important? And when you asked me that question, it was like, you know what?

Speaker 4 It's really not that important. But that became, I mean, I still remember it.
So it became so ingrained in me of seeing what was important. So

Speaker 4 what are some lasting thoughts that you might have for parents that are wanting to make sure that they put their kids on the right path?

Speaker 2 Don't allow your children to name-call each other.

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 that's detrimental to them in a way. I mean,

Speaker 2 I think it hurts them. I think if they just verbally let them, abuse each other.
Don't let your children do that to each other. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Start, even if they're a brother and and sister.

Speaker 2 If you bring their sister, say, no, we're not going to be name-calling. No, we're not doing that.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 I think it teaches them at an early age to use that as

Speaker 2 a weapon. Yes.

Speaker 4 And without understanding that.

Speaker 2 It could be very hurtful.

Speaker 2 Sure. So, and

Speaker 2 if they'll remember it, you know, from years down the road, you just, no, to me, just don't let them do that to each other. And to see value in other people.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Even if they do something wrong, see value in them. There's something something good about that person.

Speaker 2 And if they're having trouble with other kids at school,

Speaker 2 even if it's a bully or somebody, tell me something good about them.

Speaker 2 And you try to speak to and encourage that positive aspect of that other person instead of just focusing on their negative qualities.

Speaker 2 But as far as building

Speaker 2 influence in a child, I think the most important thing is just to hold them, just to touch them by the face and say, I want you to know I loved you.

Speaker 2 And there's not a thing you could do in this world that would keep me from loving you.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that's important.

Speaker 2 You've got, the world is ugly and nasty and mean.

Speaker 2 And I think we saw our role as parents is to give you the biggest shield, the biggest suit of armor that you could possibly have so that you could walk out there knowing I'm loved, I'm protected,

Speaker 2 and I always have a place, and I always have people I can go to

Speaker 2 who will love me and build me up. No matter who's shooting at me, no matter what people are saying, I am loved.
And when a child has that foundation,

Speaker 2 it just builds them up because they're going to get attacked out in the world,

Speaker 2 even as a child or as they grow into maturity. And if they don't have that foundation of knowing that they are loved by a parent like that,

Speaker 2 it's so much more difficult for them. Yeah.
And so a lot of times those are the ones who go looking for things, just trying to find love. Right.
Yeah. And that's where you see so much dysfunction.

Speaker 4 I

Speaker 4 can second that because I can remember both of you.

Speaker 4 Especially you, Dad, you would always, probably every day, I'm proud of you. I mean, you even made it a mission critical to say you were proud of me.
Now,

Speaker 4 I know being a kid, you know, I'm looking all over the room. I'm being goofy.

Speaker 4 I mean, it's, I try to talk to my kids and to get their attention, to look me in the eye and just say something that you feel is significant, very difficult because they're just, they're everywhere.

Speaker 4 And I might say something sweet and they go, you know, why does a pelican have a big beak? You know, it's just, did you even say it?

Speaker 4 And so, but I'm here to tell you that I did hear it and I remember it. And that

Speaker 2 and I'll still do that. Yeah.
Oh, you can do it. I'll still send text messages to all of my children

Speaker 2 on occasion. Not every day, but every now and then.

Speaker 2 I love you. Or I'm proud of you, son.
I'm proud of you, you know, to the daughter, you know, sweetie.

Speaker 2 And I think that's so important. But my father did that to me.
That's one thing that my father did.

Speaker 2 He regularly said, I love you. I'm proud of you.

Speaker 2 And that is so validating

Speaker 2 for children. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And I think even for parents who

Speaker 4 did not have that role modeled

Speaker 4 growing up, I think there's a message here, too, of that they can change that. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 I mean, that's just because they had a rough upbringing does not mean that's the same upbringing that their kid is going to have. Exactly.

Speaker 4 And even if they didn't have that model for them and they didn't feel that,

Speaker 4 they can set it right. I think it really just changes on the next generation.
Right.

Speaker 2 And I'm sure we made mistakes.

Speaker 2 I know we've made mistakes.

Speaker 2 And so you do your best to try to do better than we did.

Speaker 2 That's true. You always want your children to do better than you did.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And to learn and to grow. For sure.

Speaker 4 And I think, I mean, now

Speaker 4 there's so many podcasts on parenting and accounts, wonderful accounts and experts on parenting and things you should say, not say, what you do. I mean,

Speaker 4 and y'all just didn't have that. I mean, you just didn't have...
I didn't have cell phones. That's what I mean.
I mean,

Speaker 4 you didn't have nearly the... I mean, you can go to

Speaker 4 AI now and have like a whole plan, but I mean, you just didn't have that. So every generation is kind of trying to...

Speaker 4 See what's going to be the best.

Speaker 2 I just wanted to y'all to know that you were loved.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 um i was very affectionate with y'all i hugged yes oh yeah i hugged on y'all all the time um

Speaker 2 but to me if the child feels loved then to me it's a safe space for them to be able to communicate anything to you right they should feel safe to to speak their mind as long as it's respectful then they should be able to say anything to you yes no i that was um one thing that I always felt very vulnerable, or I could be very vulnerable with y'all.

Speaker 4 I could say just about anything. And I talk about being a safe space in communication for your kids.
And that is saying, thank you for coming to me with this.

Speaker 4 Instead of just getting so upset to where they don't want to come back and say things like,

Speaker 4 I can't imagine ever in a world where I am not my child's go-to. For when things go wrong,

Speaker 4 you want to be that. You don't want to be where they're trying to hide it from dad or mom and not

Speaker 4 do that. So it makes a big difference.

Speaker 2 And have fun, yeah, enjoy it. And

Speaker 2 one of my, I'll just keep getting this mental image of

Speaker 2 your mom and I were in our bedroom, you were very small, and all of a sudden we looked over and saw these little fingers underneath the door.

Speaker 2 So it was you outside, and so I said, Who's there? Yeah, and you go, He's Jefferson. I said, Jefferson, who?

Speaker 2 Jefferson Fisher.

Speaker 2 I said, What do you do, Jefferson Fisher?

Speaker 2 There was a pause. Pause.
Like 10 seconds pause.

Speaker 2 I play.

Speaker 2 You're probably like two and a half. I really enjoyed it.
And started laughing. And started laughing and thought, you know,

Speaker 2 what a special time that was.

Speaker 2 You know, you just wanted to play. Right.
And

Speaker 2 you wanted your parents to know where you were and check in on us with your fingers. And

Speaker 2 it was a joy. You were a joyful child and you're joyful.
Yes, you're a good job. 37-year-old guy.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I still do.
For sure.

Speaker 4 I could not be any more grateful that I want it on the record.

Speaker 4 I could not be any more grateful that y'all are my parents and that y'all have influenced my life forever and beyond. And I couldn't imagine ever having any other parents.

Speaker 4 So I want to let you both know I love you. very, very much.
And thank you for praying over me. Thank you for praying over me and

Speaker 4 just being who you are and a joy to anybody who gets to know you. So

Speaker 4 I love y'all. Thank you.

Speaker 2 Love you too. Love you too.

Speaker 5 The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft.

Speaker 5 But Life Lock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our U.S.-based restoration specialists will fix it guaranteed or your money back.

Speaker 5 Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans, or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with Life Lock.
Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com/slash podcast.

Speaker 5 Terms Apply.