JRE MMA Show #168 with Khalil Rountree Jr.

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What's up?

What up?

How you feeling?

What's going on?

Oh, man.

Back from an amazing Thailand vacation.

Oh, really?

After that, after the

fight.

It just feels like I've been on just a great vacation journey.

Baku was amazing.

Let me start off there.

Please.

Let me start off with Baku, Azerbaijan.

Oh, my God.

What a place.

I heard it's amazing there.

Absolutely incredible.

Everybody who went there was raving about how great it is.

Absolutely incredible.

When we

got the news, like, okay, the fight's going to be postponed.

It's going to go into Baku.

I had never heard of the place in my life.

I agreed without even looking it up, you know, but in my mind, I was thinking, like, okay, this is a place I've never heard of.

You know, I started thinking, like, I don't know, it's probably going to be something similar to like Saudi, and it's probably just like a lot of desert, blah, blah, blah.

And I get there, and my mind was absolutely blown.

Amazing treatment from Baku City Circuit.

Welcome to us in.

The fans were

some of the best I've ever encountered, man.

They were so happy to have the UFC there.

Everyone in the streets, like people who weren't even fight fans, were just excited that the UFC was in Baku.

So like that added to the experience.

And then

it's just beautiful, man.

What is it like?

What is it like?

So where we were,

yeah, so that's Old Town.

So I did a tour through there.

Whoa.

I forgot.

So I forgot, but I know that 4,000 people still live in Old Town.

There's boutique hotels in there.

There's just so much history

as like when it was built,

kind of what they're known for.

I don't remember what that building is,

but the architecture there is one of the things that that's the

flame towers.

So at night, there's just projections and like it'll be like the flag or it'll just it'll actually be like flames

because Baku is

known for oil, like being one of the first oil countries.

This is the Carpet Museum, an amazing place full of carpets that are like century years old.

They built it to look like a carpet.

That fucking crazy thing.

It's crazy.

And all these carpets are handmade, like passed down generation after generation.

So like they tell you how deep the

culture and like the stories of these carpets and like how, oh my God.

And clean, clean, friendly people.

That was a bunch of people that went there and decided to stay for a few days.

I would, honestly, I wish that I I would have stayed longer.

I've already booked family trips.

I've told everybody we're going back to Baku.

Wow.

Man.

Is that cool?

Just thinking about it, I'm like, dude, this is a place that

I want to visit for the rest of my life.

I want to just keep going back to Baku, man.

That's dope.

Yeah.

And obviously you had an amazing result there, too.

Yeah,

I think that it really played into just my performance.

I was in a really good place.

Let me, okay.

I was in a good place, but I was also in kind of a fucked up state, like, not gonna lie.

Um,

I was just so happy to be

across the world doing what I love to do and to be, like, treated like we're actually appreciated for, you know, like for what we do.

And so that helped me get through all the other shit that happened.

What was the other shit?

What was going on?

Oh, man.

So

I knew that we were going to be jet lagged no matter what.

I knew it because we're traveling, you know, super far.

16-hour flight, right?

Yeah, super long flight.

So I knew we were going to be jet-lagged, so I made sure that we got there two weeks early to adjust.

It took about

six, almost about a week to like fully adjust.

And then, so during fight week, say second day, first day of fight week, I'm like,

thrown up and shit and

non-stop.

Oh, no.

I'm like, okay, this is great.

This is exactly what I want to be feeling right now.

You know, pressure's on.

I got to fight.

You know, like, I'm super motivated.

Yeah.

And I'm just like, I don't know what I'm, what am I going to do, man?

Like, what was it?

I don't even know.

Food poisoning?

I don't think so.

Because everybody, everybody that

I was with, we all ate the same thing.

You were the only one who got sick.

I was the only one, man.

I was the only one.

And you don't cut a ton of weight.

No.

So

I think what was...

What do you walk around at?

Right now, I'm in vacation mode.

I'm, you know, 228, 230, something.

Still, I don't compare to God.

I don't get over 230 on that.

I'm in Pereira.

Yeah.

You know, he cuts a ton.

Yeah, if I just do not let myself get over 230.

That's just like my...

That's my oath to myself.

And then in camp, what do you get down to?

20.

I'd say between 20 and 25 is where I like to balance.

220, 225.

And anytime in there, I'm good because I know that that's where I'm going to fight at.

So when I'm in camp, it's, you know.

And then when do you start your cut?

So the way that it happens is

the last kind of two weeks, I don't necessarily do too much of like a diet change.

It's just my, like, I'm always looking to peak on fight day, not like a peak plateau format that a lot of people go by.

So I'd say usually, let's say we weigh in on Friday.

That Tuesday, I'm around

214.

Oh, okay.

213, something like that.

Nice.

And then, you know, those last days is kind of like water load, proteins, and fat.

That's all nice cut.

I sit in the sauna no matter what, like

an hour, maybe.

Like my weight cut this time took, I hit mitts for an hour and a half.

I laid down in a sauna blanket and I was on weight.

Like, I, so it was like under two hours for me to be on weight.

So, you're not depleted?

Not at all.

Feel good.

And how long did it take for that cold to get out of your system or whatever it was?

I still felt it.

I still felt it a bit on flight day, but there was nothing that was going to like my mind

for like through this camp, through this fight, man, like I'm so happy for everything that I went through, honestly.

Like, there was nothing that was going to take away, like, like my shine or my joy or my feeling of like being ready being prepared

it was it was a battle with my mind and every day I had to make a choice to like

to just be better to be bigger to be to be happy to just you know to just like embrace everything this was all like everything's just been about embracing the obstacles that that this episode is brought to you by Squarespace have you ever been shopping online and the website just gave you the ick?

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So the last time we talked was before the Pereira fight.

Yeah.

And it was a great fight.

Thank you.

You had some great success.

It was a tough fight.

And then

what is it like after that fight?

So you face the best in the world and you know that you can hang with them.

You lost the fight, but you didn't gain a ton of experience.

You went five rounds with one of the greatest and what is it like after that?

I'd say

everything seems very different now.

I have been since the Pereira fight I've been to I'd say more than

six countries and every I've there's fans there everyone like knows who I am now and that is something that was a shock to me

especially coming off a loss and just knowing that like I gave my all in that fight and that's

I guess what the people wanted from me to get that type of like acknowledgement because I've been in the UFC for so long

but that fight I guess really showed people like who I am, and I got to show the world who I am

and against a guy like Alex.

So now I feel like I've at least kind of made my mark and been like, hey, I'm here, you know.

And so people are now like, okay, Khalil, I know this guy is.

You can say the name.

And now people kind of, you know, they're, they're familiar with who I am now.

Um,

but the other thing that it showed me was that

I now know who I am and what I'm capable of.

I spent

the majority of that fight just soaking in the moment and just like, oh, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here.

I was excited to be there.

I gave everything I had, but then going back and watching it, I'm like, ah, I saw a lot of the mistakes that I made.

What mistakes specifically?

The number one mistake that I think was made in that fight is that it was my first rounder

and

when I was going into the fourth because I took a lot of damage in the in the end of the like middle to end of the third so I was up one and two

the beginning of three I was starting to kind of

he started to kind of take over halfway through the round and once he started hitting me

I was like, oh shit, he's established his range, and now I'm feeling it.

So it wasn't necessarily like a cardio thing.

It was just like I started taking damage and everybody knows this guy hits hard.

So

I was taking the damage.

I was rocked.

I was dizzy.

Going into the fourth in the break, I remember John Wood saying, all right, man, like, you're doing great.

10 more minutes.

Like, you can do anything 10 minutes.

Just stick in there.

We got this.

And because I wasn't.

familiar with the five rounds, I took 10 minutes as sell out.

So in the fourth round, I came out like

ready to, you know, I wasn't thinking with the mindset of like, I'm up to, he just took the third.

Fourth round, I need to maybe

relax, you know, maybe not,

not get hit, you know, whatever.

Fourth round, I came out, I bit down, and I went to war.

I think that's what lost me the fight for me personally.

So you made a lot of adjustments in the Jamal Hill fight.

1,000%.

Yeah, you could see it.

You could see, first of all, what a performance.

thank you i mean he dominated a world champion i mean dominated him it was such a clear-cut victory and it was a victory where a lot of people thought that you were going to struggle with him and you know you just really

you really showed

a level above the pereira fight and i think maybe part of it is what you're talking about like choosing when to engage and when not to engage like there was moments in that fight where you were dominating the fight but there's moments where he was coming after you.

You just moved.

You just moved.

You moved away from him.

And I know it pissed him off, but it's like, hey, man, you know, you were way ahead.

You were way ahead, and you were dominating the exchanges.

Then when you chose to exchange with him, you were hurting him and dropping him.

It was very impressive, man.

Thank you.

And

that was

the product of, you know, really

reviewing.

mistakes.

You also do some wild shit, like standing hammer fists.

Is that how you practice?

Absolutely, man.

That's a crazy move.

Absolutely, man.

We're artists, you know.

I think that that's one thing that, you know, I try my best to always embody the artist in mixed martial arts.

I think it gets lost in the growth of the sport of MMA, you know.

But, you know, from this, the past conversations we have and you understanding kind of how I was before, like, man, I need some type of outlet for creativity, you know, and I that's what it is.

Standing hammer fists.

I mean, my mind, you know, just my essence is art.

So I'm like, how can I, you know, paint this picture of like expression, of, of combat?

You know what I mean?

Like, there's so many different, we got Salat, we got crap Magazine, we got all these things, and it's like,

let me paint, you know, like, what can I use to, you know, to, to, to, to, that's a bold thing to do, to use something very creative like that on a world champion, too.

Jamal Hill's a dangerous guy.

Yeah, he's dangerous, man.

standing hammer fist yeah i'm dangerous too you know like i try to yeah i try to like

i i i always try to

insert myself into you know into these things too because i think about it yeah alex hard hitter dangerous guy and i have to like yeah so am i let's do it you know alex or uh jamal same thing like i know he's got one punch power you know all these things i'm like let me insert myself let me take some chances let me be bold you know i think that's that's i think there's an advantage that you have also as a lighter guy in that division is that you move quicker.

And that was kind of evident in that fight.

You're like, you know, there's a range of light heavyweights, and you're on the smaller range.

Like, there's a lot of guys like Drickus, who's bigger than you, who's the middleweight champion.

He's fucking huge, man.

It's the opposite thing, right?

He's cutting a ton of weight.

I don't know what he cuts, but every time I interview him, I'm like, how?

How the fuck are you 185 pounds?

You're enormous.

He looks like a heavyweight.

And he is a heavyweight when he fights.

I mean, he's over 205 for sure.

Yeah, these guys, they blow up.

Blow up.

And you don't.

And I think because of that, you have this, you have speed, and not just speed of the strikes, but the way you move in and out.

You know, it's like when you close the distance on Jamal, you could see it was like there were some moments where I think he was surprised by the speed in which you were able to close the distance.

Yeah, I think so as well.

There were, yeah, there were some reactions in there that I was picking up on.

Um, I could see a bit of frustration, you know.

Um, I feel like I was able to read a lot of the things before they, you know, before they would come.

And

yeah,

I mean, I heard everything that his coaches were saying, and in my mind, I was just seeing him struggle with like not being able to react the way he wanted, and maybe that was because, you know, there was, there was the speed that they weren't necessarily dealing with.

The speed and also the leg kicks.

You fucked him up early with leg kicks.

Yeah.

And it really had a significant effect.

When you see him switching stances, and he doesn't like to stand orthodox, you know,

you saw a lot of changes.

Yeah, he did.

I can say that, you know, there were some improvements made.

I think that he probably spent some more time working on his footwork.

He was a lot less flat-footed than he usually is.

I could tell that, like, his a lot of the times his toes were pointed at me, and that wasn't wasn't what I studied.

You know what I mean?

So he made some changes.

He'd made some changes.

He landed some very good leg kicks, specifically in the first round.

Yeah, thank you.

I always do my best to try to channel my Muay Thai and

you're like one of the few, like, remember we talked about that, about the Eric Anders fight.

Like, when you came back from Thailand the first time, you were fighting like a Thai.

And me and DC were having a blast with it.

We're like, look at this.

Like, light on the front foot.

It was like a totally different approach.

Yeah.

But

he landed some very good leg kicks in the first round too.

It was a good exchange, but yours were doing a lot more damage.

Yeah, he started off with the leg kicks.

Like I think he threw maybe three or four calf kicks before I actually started answering back.

Yeah, he so he started it and I was just like, okay, cool.

If this is the game we're playing, like I love this game, you know, like I love this game.

So

yeah, it was it was it was a great fight, man.

Why did you start the beginning of the fight, like, with your hands down, just like walking towards him?

Because that's how I felt, Joe.

I mean, like,

I feel like

in that fight, so there was, there was not necessarily, like, beef between Jamal and I.

Like, we never really exchanged, you know, there wasn't any, like, heated discussions or anything.

But

we all have phones.

We all have social media.

We all, you know, I get Google alerts and stuff anytime I'm mentioned.

And so, like, I've seen things that were said, and I'm just like, okay, whatever.

I don't agree with it.

And I don't, you know, whatever.

If this guy looks at me as

however, that's just his opinion.

What was he saying?

Like, what was it?

Just like, I think it was like things again about like the Alex fight or just saying that like.

He's going to outskill me or, you know, I don't belong in the division.

Just, you know, things like that.

Like, don't take my exact word for it, but that's kind of how, like, that's the stuff that I kind of saw.

So

for me, there was no real reason to

show any like respect you know if we're in the same building if we're in the same room i just like whatever i wanted to just kind of block him out um

and then

during the weigh-ins so i had a i had a press conference and they were saying like hey in the alex fight you know you there was a lot of blood you got cut up

um can we expect the same thing from from you in this fight?

And I said, no, there's not going to be any blood on my face.

How you're interviewing me now is how you're going to interview me after the fight.

I'm going to look the same.

He didn't like that.

I didn't say his name, but he didn't like that.

And so at the weigh-ins, he comes like,

and mind you, we had

three days before the weigh-ins, and we'd seen each other in the hotel room and blah, blah, blah, or in the hotel, you know, there were many more opportunities for him to say what he said, but he chose to do it at the way-ins in front of Dana White.

And I thought that was like, Come on, what did he say?

He said, Oh, you're gonna bleed, you're gonna bleed.

You better believe that you're gonna bleed, like in my face, like, Oh, I'm gonna make you bleed, and I was just like, Okay, like,

sure,

you know, like that was just really like internally.

Like, I'm like, Okay, sure, yeah, whatever.

And why did you think that you wouldn't get cut?

Like, what made you think

I knew how I've been training and what I'm prepared for.

And I know the type of athlete and fighter and man that I am.

And I just knew that it wasn't going to happen.

I was just that confident in my abilities and the work that I put in that I just knew it wasn't going to happen.

It's pretty wild also considering you're coming off of a loss.

Like you had more confidence coming off of a loss.

100%.

Because the loss just showed me that there's more work to do.

You know, like people always say back to the drawing boards.

And like, it was more than the drawing boards boards for me.

It was like back to the dirt, back to the Vegas weather, back to the dying on the assault bike, back to challenging myself, back to going deeper.

Who am I really?

What am I really capable of?

And, you know, like that, that was it.

It was just like deep, deep internal digging to get out and to discover what I'm made of.

And so in that comes confidence.

In that comes like,

I know what I'm capable of, and I know what I can do.

And so that's how I felt.

You know,

so that's why I walked out like that.

Because I was just like.

Because it was kind of wild.

I was like, what is he doing?

But I was also prepared.

I didn't want to rush anything.

Like, nothing needed to be rushed.

Like, the cages closed and we got 25 minutes.

I'm going to run out, you know?

Right, right, right.

No, like, walk here.

I know that you're not going to do anything.

I wasn't threatened.

Like that, that statement in my face didn't like.

I was just like, God, here we go again.

You know what I mean?

Like another guy that wants to like get in my face.

Like, yeah.

And I did the job that needed to be done.

It was a very measured performance.

And some people didn't like that.

Some people, you know, the casuals.

I think there's casuals that.

They wanted to see blood.

They just want to see chaos.

They don't care about your health.

They don't care about me at the age of 50 with, you know what I mean?

When this is all over and I want my knees and my hands and my fingers and everything to work.

Yeah.

And I want to be able to speak sentences and go through the airport on both my feet and not in a wheelchair.

They don't care about that.

No.

And that's okay.

Yeah, it's okay.

I mean, you know, like.

The only time it bothers me is when referees react.

Like when referees separate people because of booing.

Like, don't do that.

Don't do that.

Yeah, you can't give in.

The referees can't be influenced by the crowd.

Don't give into the casuals.

He can't, man.

Because I thought it was a very smart performance.

Like, if you're going to fight a guy like Jamal, who's an awesome counter-striker, one-punch knockout power, got a series of bodies behind him.

He's knocked out a lot of dudes.

He knows how to do it.

You got to fight him smart.

For sure.

And that's what you did.

And I wasn't, yeah, just like to be clear, I know the things that I said can come off as like overly confident or whatever.

I wasn't sleeping on Jamal, you know?

Like, I knew what he was capable of and I trained hard for him.

I really did.

Every day was dedication.

Every day was you know strategy and planning.

When did you feel like everything was coming together in the fight?

Before the fight.

Really?

Yeah.

The win for me happened before the fight.

Like I said, I think

with

camp,

the training,

you know, my head trainer, like with John, with Lorenzo, Christian, just the guys who are in my circle and the work that we do, I just, that really helped me with, you know, a lot of confidence and a clear vision and a path to victory.

And I just stuck to it.

So I just had a feeling that

if I stick to the plan, I win this fight.

And you did.

Yeah, it was, it was very measured, very smart.

And I liked it.

I really enjoyed it.

Thank you.

I enjoyed it because I like when people fight smart.

I really do.

When people maximize the amount of damage that they put out, minimize the amount of damage they receive in return.

That's what you did.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, now we got the next one, Yuri Prohaska.

Yeah.

Did you see that news?

I did.

Just saw it yesterday.

Yeah.

So this is, man, I'm excited about this fight.

Yeah.

I really am.

Another guy who's, you know what I mean?

Like, former champion, very skilled, very dangerous.

Another guy who's gotten a lot better since the prayer fight he's gotten a lot better since the prayer fight he's dynamic he's you know he's strategic um he's awkward as fuck too yeah he can be awkward he's so weird um

he's the weirdest and it's in vegas so yeah this is great it's gonna be the first time since the Gokansaki fight that I've been able to fight in front of a crowd.

Oh, is that really?

My hometown.

No, can't.

That was the last fight I had.

That's crazy.

At T-Mobile Arena in front of the Las Vegas crowd.

I had not realized that.

Oh, wow.

So that's huge.

Don't have to fly.

Don't have to travel.

Don't have to fly.

Don't have to travel.

And then Las Vegas can come out and

support a local.

So that's cool because with the growth of Las Vegas, we're getting sports.

Got the Raiders, getting a baseball team.

you know women's basketball it's it's it the the local scene in vegas right now is i'm proud of it you know to come from there and to see that now we have something besides just gambling and you know all the debauchery.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's going to be nice.

And I'm very happy to represent that night.

So how do you train for a guy like Yuri?

Like, what do you do?

I mean, are you going to watch a lot of tape on him?

Like, how do you prepare for a guy like that?

That's very unusual.

Without giving away too much, I think that it just requires, you know, study, like passing any test.

You know what I mean?

Like, Like

it requires dedication and focus and, you know, doing the right study, making the right adjustments

and training.

You know, it's the rest, I think, is art.

You know, like how we go about

solving the problem is for everybody to enjoy.

But I think that, yeah,

it comes from study and

good training partners as well.

I think that that's a huge,

a huge thing in anybody's training camp.

Do you have anybody that could emulate that style?

Or will you even try?

You know what?

To emulate someone's style, I think,

it's helpful.

It is.

It is helpful.

But it's very hard because you can never really truly,

you know, be someone.

So someone can give you certain looks that maybe you'll see.

So I don't rely too heavily on

people emulating.

But I do appreciate

bodies and people that are around the same size, just so I can

get used to that body contact of maybe someone who's a bit taller and not training with guys who are maybe shorter.

If I had a short guy who can emulate my opponent.

It's not going to help against a taller guy.

You know, it doesn't help.

So if I have a taller guy who maybe can't emulate and I can do what I want to do against a taller body, then the rest is up to like my awareness and like making sure that you know a guy who maybe has this weird style, okay, I'm aware of that, but I know what I can do against someone of the same size.

Yuri's just, he's so unusual in that a lot of times his hands are down really low, his stance is very wide, and he moves back and forth like a cobra.

Like he hinges at the waist more than probably anybody.

He does a lot of unusual stuff that you could see guys like try to adjust to that when they're inside the cage with them.

It's like you have this weird moment where you have to think and consider these new possibilities.

Yeah, I think that,

you know, like I said, I just

returned from, you know, a reset.

And yeah, and now

as soon as I leave here, I'm, you know, I'm locked back into

samurai mode.

You know, what did you do in Thailand?

Were you just training?

Were you just vacation or did you do any training?

It was incredible, Joe.

So

my wife and I got invited to Thailand from the Thailand Tourism Authority.

Wow.

So they invited us to come.

They hosted us in Bangkok.

Amazing hotel, Dusit Tani Hotel.

You have to go.

If you ever go to Bangkok, Dusit Tani.

So they hosted us, they took us to like a small pro or the smallest province in Thailand called Samutsung Kram.

And in that province, they are known for having the best coconuts in all of Thailand.

So all like coconut water, coconut sugar, all that stuff most likely comes from Samutsung Kram.

Salt farm, a bee farm.

What's a salt farm?

Salt farm.

So

they

made these channels that come from

the nearest like body of water, and

they get the salt, they extract the salt from the sea, and then they create a bunch of different things from it, you know, bath salts.

Oh, so they do it with some kind of machinery?

No, it's like, yeah, there's a little bit, yeah, it looks like this, yeah, exactly.

Huh.

Oh, so they do it by hand, yeah, they do it by hand.

These people, dude, they're out there,

yeah, just this is their daily life.

And so we got to hang out with these people that are that like live in this province.

That's how they do it?

Yeah, man.

I would have never known.

So, how are they getting salt out of the water like that?

Like, what do you do to?

I honestly, like,

I was so excited to be there that I probably missed out on a lot of the details, but that's how it looked.

Like, there were these windmills, and I know the like,

yeah, the water evaporates, and then there's, like, salt left at the bottom, bottom and then

they rake it into a pile and then it goes through other processes.

But

it's really cool.

They're just experienced like they're very passionate about.

And there's different salts from everywhere.

Like that up there on the right is salt.

I don't know where it came from.

But that stuff that looks like dark like cereal?

Yeah, it's salt.

Does it look like cereal?

No, but like, yeah, cornflakes, toasted cornflakes.

That's salt.

But yeah, and so they had had different salts that came from everywhere.

And you can see

how it forms based off of

whatever ecosystem.

Yeah, so cool.

So that's Samut Sakan.

We were in Samut Song Kram.

Really cool, man.

So

we went there.

They took a bunch of, I guess, influencers from around the world and flew them into Thailand to welcome us and show us just different sites.

It's not always about the beaches and Phuket and all this stuff.

They took us and then spread us out.

So that's where we got to go.

And then

we went back to Bangkok and had this crazy cool gala.

Buokao was there.

Yeah, like all these

movie stars and the

people from just like the Thai government and stuff just showing people pretty much like the heart of Thailand.

So it was very welcoming.

It was a really cool way to kind of come back and

feel home again.

And then I ended up staying an extra week or two.

Same thing, Thailand tourism, you know,

made sure that we

just continue that experience.

So we stayed at some other hotels, did like the boat ride cruise down the river, you know, just had dinner, just really got to live it up and experience, you know.

So it was all basically vacationing, not training?

No training, because it was fresh out of the the fight.

So I flew, I was in Baku two weeks.

I flew from Baku to Vegas,

stayed in Vegas eight hours, and then flew from Vegas to Thailand.

So I like went around the world in like 24 hours.

So I was fresh out of the fight.

So there was no.

Then it would be closer to go from Baku to Thailand.

Yeah, but the trips were booked separately.

So like in order for that ticket to, you know, to actually work, I had to be in Vegas to fly out.

But I did it I thugged it out and yeah it was it was the best way to recover like this was a good recover recovery for me because I started the camp

for Jamal in February is when I heard about it but then it got postponed due to like one of his injuries and yeah

wow yeah and now I'm back and

when you get a big victory like that over a guy like Jamal what does it what does that feel like in your head when you know the work paid off

to just keep going um

and to just to just keep like keep digging you know like it's it's nice because i'm

before you know like when i went i i went on that five-fight win streak i was like coming back from thailand and like now i'm i'm fully in this you know i'm

i'm 100 in and with that i that means like i'm just i'm committed to digging this tunnel and so like a win

over jamal like that tunnel isn't open yet like i got to get the belt first you know like but i'm digging and i saw like oh maybe i got this like cool gemstone like okay cool put that in my bag but like now i'm you know i'm committed i'm still

I'm still in the mind, you know, and

eyes on the prize, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the prizes, it's very interesting now, right?

Because Pereira lost to Ankalayev, and they're going to rematch on that same card.

Same card.

Yeah, which is going to be wild.

Yeah.

That's the main event.

And then Komain is Murab and Corey Sanhagen, which is another awesome fight.

Yeah.

So it's going to be one of those cards.

I mean, right now,

busy night for John Wood.

He's got me and Murab the same thing.

Just those three fights.

That's an insane card.

Obviously, if it stays together, MMA is rough with that.

People get injured.

But if that card stays together the way it's pieced up right now, just with those three, I mean, whoo, what a card.

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that's better h e l p.com slash j r e from what i've seen so far and like just the the text that i've gotten yeah a lot of people are really excited about it which

hypes me up and makes me want to you know train smarter.

Well, you know, Yuri, who also beat Jamal in one of his last fights, looked fantastic in that fight.

And coming off of the Pereira fight, he also made some big changes and big improvements.

That's one of the things that makes your fight with him so much more interesting.

Yeah, because I'm sure from his last,

even a loss to Pereira, he

I knew him coming back, he mentioned it.

Like, he wants...

He wants to fight for the title again.

You know what I mean?

So he's hungry for the title again as well.

And so am I.

And yeah, we've both made the adjustments.

So I think it's...

The thing is, though, it's like he lost twice, you lost once.

So it's like it's a little tougher to sell his fight than it is to sell a rematch with you.

And I think you probably had more success, certainly than him in the second fight.

The second fight, he got kind of tuned up.

Yeah, I think second round.

Yeah, second round was a good thing.

Well, the first round, he got dropped hard.

Dropped hard and then came out second round and headkicked.

He was out of it going into the second and that left hook landed clean at the end of the fight.

It could have been the end of the fight right there.

Yeah.

No, those

Pereira's got a different power, man.

For sure.

Like, it's, it, it feels like a stone.

Does it, it feels remarkably different?

Remarkably.

Really?

Yeah.

Getting punched.

I've never been punched.

as hard as I did when I fought Pereira.

Like, ever.

And sparring,

there was just something

it's kind of crazy because, like, you just, I give credit where credit's due, you know, like, I don't want to gas him up too much, but there is just one thing, and it's like, I don't know.

I think that

it's real.

You know what I mean?

Well, it's obviously real.

Yeah, it's real.

The power of the strength is real.

It's not anything lucky.

It's calculated, but when it lands, it's like, yeah.

Now, he was a guy I talked up big time when he was in glory.

When I found out he was coming over to the UFC, I was like, buckle up because this is just different.

He just hits different.

And, you know, his frame's different, too.

It's a very, he's

moves different.

I remember when, like, during the weigh-ins

when we faced off and like he just bent his arms up like this.

And I was like, fuck, this is a big man.

You know, like, we weigh the same, but, like, you know, like, that, I was like, okay, this is a big guy.

Like, because he just bent his arms and, like, his, his hand was kind of right near my face.

So I could see just

the mask.

The mask.

So it's like, boom, and it was.

I was like, okay.

How the fuck did that guy weigh 185?

I don't know.

That's what I want to know.

Yeah, I don't know.

What kind of

dude was he doing?

Torture, man.

It must have been unbelievable.

Well, I think that's one of the things that contributed to it is Izzy knocking him out.

Other than the perfect punch, I mean, Izzy landed an absolutely perfect punch.

Yeah.

But I think, you know, it's well noted that when guys lose that much weight, they're a little bit more vulnerable to getting hit.

Yeah.

100%, man.

And

you watched the Poirier fight, I'm sure.

Oh, yeah, you were there, no?

No, I wasn't there.

You weren't there.

The last one.

You mean with Max?

Yeah, with Max.

Pretty sick, man.

Very good.

I was very happy.

And what a cool, like,

I don't know.

I like what the UFC is doing now with like the exits.

You know, like, Anthony Smith got a sick exit.

Like, Dustin's got a sick exit.

For me, I don't know.

That was kind of one of the highlights of that night for me.

Not only did I feel like they both put on a a really good fight i just thought like what a cool way to

to be able to just like do that much work and then like be appreciated for it like win or lose i think yeah maybe the tides are changing a little bit maybe

you know

what way what do you mean like

i felt like for a long time

and still to this day my it's still pretty like heavy but

To lose in MMA was almost kind of like the end of the world to the fans.

Because it is in boxing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In boxing, everybody wants to be undefeated.

Yeah, like undefeated.

And like, you know, sometimes like someone can be on a tier and then they, you know, they lose and then like you can just see the direction of the of the support like completely shift.

Like, ah, fluke and da da da, you know?

But

yeah, I think that it's, you know, when I see things like, you know, Dustin's exit and all this stuff.

Granted, he did a lot in the company and he's he's done a lot in his career.

But to see that kind of gave me hope, like, okay, maybe this will, you know, give the fans a little bit of different perspective.

And maybe it can start to shift towards like

appreciating people.

Appreciating the fighter, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, appreciating the fighter for what we do.

It's not, it's not the easiest job.

We don't get paid the most.

So like, yeah, like a little appreciation goes a long way, win or lose, for sure.

Yeah, I hope the tide is turning in that direction, too.

Man, I just people need to,

it's like, again, it's casuals.

It's like people love.

So one of the things that I really struggled with in the early days of commentary is that regular sports people were starting to do MMA commentary and they were talking about fighters the same way they would talk about like a football player who drops a pass or a basketball player who misses a shot very disrespectfully,

choked.

They were saying a lot of shit.

I was like, hey, hey, hey, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Like, this is the wrong sport to be coming over here and talking like that.

For sure.

And the early days in particular, there was a lot of that.

There was a lot of people that they wanted to get credit for their work by just being that arrogant.

You know, there's like a bunch of those people in the sports world that are just like insulting.

And then, you know, there's a long history of athletes meeting those people and fucking them up and slapping them.

It's super disrespectful.

And I don't know why,

but there's like a culture, particularly in America, that embraces that and that likes that because that's the kind of talk that like dumb-dums have when they're on the job.

And like, did you see him last night?

Fucking loser.

Yeah, yeah.

You missed that three-pointer.

You should have passed the ball.

Like, you know, shut the fuck up, man.

I hate that shit.

I hate that shit because I didn't do a lot of team sports.

I only was involved mostly in combat sports when I was a kid.

And so disrespect like that was like, God, you don't know what you're even talking about.

It's annoying, man.

You don't understand what this is.

These guys are risking their fucking life.

It's different than everything else you watch.

You miss a basketball, you miss it going into the hoop.

Okay, next day, you know, you get to shoot some more basketballs and practice, and then you'll be playing in a few days.

And you're back at it.

With fighting, it's your fucking soul.

It's everything.

100%.

Broken nose, something.

People bums.

It's like, shut your mouth.

Yeah, dude.

Stop.

Yeah.

It's super annoying.

And that also brings to thought, like, I went to the Espes, and that was really cool.

The first time

going to the Espes and seeing all these other athletes, you know, that we see on football, you know, just on television, being in the same room,

it was amazing.

And i remember seeing just like the opening

video

and uh i think there might have been maybe one clip of an mma fight

but i'm listening to all the like awards given out and you know best play and all this stuff and i was just thinking man like I know MMA is new and I'm obviously it's growing because we're here and you know they got John Jones in the crowd and they got Marab here you know so it's growing they're they're starting to acknowledge us but like i can't wait until the day where like

there's more fights on you know on in the esps yeah we're what

we're doing great things you know what i mean i feel like it's the most exciting sport on earth it's so exciting

and even like i had you know pro hockey players all these guys coming up like oh man watch your fight you know so like the even even the athletes that are playing the nfl nhl and and mlb all these things they're they're even watching what we're doing Oh, yeah, for sure.

I think it's, you know, I'm excited for the growth of the sport as well.

And I, you know, hopefully the next generation or even sooner will be able to know what it's like to be an MMA fighter and still get like an SB award.

I wonder what's going to happen if the UFC doesn't renew the ESPN contract.

Because there's this negotiation thing that's going on right now, and I don't know where they're going to land.

There's talk of Netflix, there's talk of other networks, there's a bunch of different talk.

And one of the things that we benefit from is ESPN not just as the host of the fights, but also covering the fights.

All the additional coverage, all the sports center talk, all the different shows that they have on ESPN Plus, the post-fight shows.

Those are all huge.

The breakdown, people love that shit.

No, they do.

They love the pre-fight breakdowns.

Pre-fight breakdowns,

Karen Bryant.

Yeah, I think it's great.

I would

stick around, man.

I hope so.

I love ESPN, and

I like

getting it that way off the app.

It's easy, you know.

And I think it helps us, too.

I mean, it definitely helped the sport grow, right?

And I think that people who...

I think it helped us as fighters gain those fans who are football fans.

Oh, yeah.

People who just have ESPN on all day.

Yep.

You know what I mean?

Or in a PT clinic, it's just like, okay, ESPN's on, you know, and to be able to, yeah, to be shown through that and I think it's been really helpful to us and and the thing is it's like you can get converted to a fan with one fight

all you need is one undercard banger one undercard banger you're like oh shit I mean that was me with the Alex fight it was honestly dude like these people came out of nowhere like one fight changed my life wow like one fight changed my life dude it's

It's well, you dropped him.

You had great moments in that fight.

Yeah.

You know?

Dude,

off topic.

What's it like to be Joe Rogan these days?

What do you mean?

What's it like?

I'm here.

Welcome to the Khalil Roundtree experience.

Today's guest, we have Joe Rogan joining us.

Joe, how are you doing, man?

It's pretty much the same for me.

Get to sit down, talk to cool people.

And I live my life pretty insulated.

So I don't deal with...

all the hoopla and chitter chatter.

I just keep it moving.

Okay.

That's the way to stay sane.

You got to just keep it moving.

My day is basically the same every day.

Get up early, write, shoot arrows, get in the cold plunge, lift weights, work out, do what I got to do, come here.

It's the same.

And then I go to the club, tell jokes, go home, go to bed, rinse, wash, repeat.

That's what I do.

Nice.

I don't do anything any different.

So as chaotic as it seems, it's the same for me.

I think what fucks people up is when they get caught up in other people talking about them and then they get involved in it and then they start reading things and they start thinking, is that who I am or is this who I am?

Who's right?

Am I a fucking loser?

Am I the coolest guy ever?

Who am I?

You know,

just keep working.

I love that.

Yeah, it's the only way.

The only way to not go crazy when you get really famous is to keep doing exactly what you've always been doing and make sure you

fucking burn yourself out.

You go hard all the time with everything you do.

Because if you don't, then you're going to just wonder, you know, am I slipping?

Is this, what's happening?

Is this all going to go away?

Like, that's one thing that people really do freak out about.

Like, once they start getting some success.

What if it goes away?

Yeah.

What if it goes away?

And then you get imposter syndrome.

You don't think you should be there.

And then if you read a bunch of comments, you know, most comments are negative.

Yeah.

People telling you over and over again, you're a fucking loser.

You start going, God damn, am I a loser?

You start reading things.

I've seen it happen to fighters.

I've seen it happen to many fighters where they get too caught up in reading comments and interacting with people in a negative way online.

And

it's just not good for you.

It's not smart.

It's not the way.

It's not, it's you're you're you're dealing with the crabs.

It's crabs in a bucket.

You know, there's a lot of people out there that don't think the only way for them to succeed is to pull you down.

It's a dumb

mindset, but of course, there's a lot of people that

they're not that aware of how much time they're wasting.

They're not aware of how much energy they're wasting thinking about other people, constantly dwelling on the hating and all the stupid shit.

And they don't realize that they're stealing from their own life.

They don't realize it.

They're just caught in this weird trap because we have this undefined new modality of communication, this social media modality, this new thing, this new

device that you have that interacts with your brain and oftentimes a very negative way.

And you're wasting hours and hours a day.

Like, how many people look at their screen time on their phone?

When you do, you go, whoa, six hours.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Six hours that I could have been doing other shit.

Obviously, it's like 10 minutes here, five minutes there, but it fucking adds up, man.

It adds up.

It's like a work shift.

Yeah.

And

it's really time.

It's really energy.

It's focus that's just being robbed from you and with no reward.

That's what they don't understand.

It's like you're getting robbed and you're not getting anything back.

There's nothing positive coming.

You're not growing.

You're not getting smarter.

You're not getting, you're not like contemplating.

You're not getting wiser.

No, you just fucking, it's just, you're just

yeah, just being like.

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Take it out of here.

Yes, yeah.

Wow, dude, that's no, that's, that's great.

And it's a good,

it's a good

reminder and refreshment for me to hear you say that because

how do I put it?

Like, let's say if I get asked question, like, how's Joe Rogan?

He's been on Joe Rogan podcast, but like, how is he?

And I'm always like, Joe's great.

Like, tell me about him.

Does he do this?

Is he that?

I'm like, dude,

I say this.

I can tell you, here, I'll just give you like four things.

Every time we talk, it's fucking good.

We hang out.

We talk.

I feel like he likes me.

I like him.

It's always a great time.

Two, there's a lot of books when I walk in there.

There's a bunch of books, all types of different books.

I think Joe's a curious guy.

I think he's a smart guy.

He's well-read.

A lot of cool things.

And it's always just based around like, yeah, when I think of you, I think just genuine dude, good vibes.

I feel the same way about you.

And it's always fun to just come here and just like chop it up with you.

That's why, like, I guess I just needed that own, like, I just wanted that for myself to just be like,

Joe, what's up how you doing and you tell me like cool I'm I'm doing the same thing I wake up I go to the gym I shoot my bows I you know I go to the club I get like that to me to know that just personally without being one of those people that are just like sucked into my phone or whatever to just hear it come from your mouth face to face that that's what you're up to that makes me feel I think it's the only way to live yeah I think getting I mean I've been sucked into my phone before for sure but now for the most part if I spend time on my phone phone at all, it's watching things.

I watch like YouTube videos, but it's always stuff on, like, it's either watching MMA, Muay Thai, kickboxing, boxing, or watching like YouTube videos on ancient history, the interesting things.

Yeah.

So I'm not interacting with opinions and people.

Yeah, and all that stuff.

Yeah.

The stuff that'll piss you off and take from you.

Do you ever watch like Fighters YouTube channels?

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Have you seen mine?

I have seen yours.

Oh, okay.

Cool.

You like it?

Yeah, it's great.

Okay.

It kind of

inspired by you a little bit.

I remember you saying in the past, like, oh, you should start a podcast.

I was like, maybe not yet, but how about a YouTube channel?

So,

well, people love behind-the-scenes stuff.

They really do.

They love to see people train, training in particular.

Yeah.

You know, I spent a lot of time watching Usuk training before this last Dubois fight.

Yeah.

Was it crazy?

I saw something the other day.

It was like Usik swimming five hours.

I was like, oh my God.

He's an animal, man.

I mean, he's so fucking good.

He's so good.

I mean, think about what that guy has done.

He beat AJ twice.

He beat Tyson Fury twice, and now he beat Dubois twice.

That's crazy.

No, it's incredible.

Those are two of the best, like, of this era.

I think he's one of the best of all time.

I really do.

I think he's one of the best heavyweights of all time.

And his movement is so different.

One of the things that was interesting

where they were talking about the fight, and AJ was,

Tony Bellows was talking about when he fought him.

And AJ was saying that when he fought him, it was the most exhausted he's ever been

because he's always moving.

There's no rest with him.

No rest with him.

There's like constant, there's constant twitching.

Under fire the whole time.

You're constantly thinking, when is this coming?

There's no silent agreements.

There's no relaxation.

there's no rounds off.

Everything is, he's putting it on you and moving constantly.

Like, I always say he's like a giant Lomachenko.

Got it.

They were both trained by the same guy.

Oh, were they?

Yeah, Lomachenko's father trained Usik as well.

Ah.

Yeah.

So there's something.

Yeah, there's something.

Obviously, gravity keeps him from moving the way Lomachenko does because Lomachenko is so small.

He can

dance around you

in footwork, just majestic footwork.

But Usik's footwork is like it's there's a bunch of breakdowns of the final combination that he hit daniel with and you know he steps off to the side and lands that fucking left hook from hell god it was good you could see daniel was already tired you could see it's like he's just dealing with there's got to be something like you know lomachenko's dad like some type of philosophy or something you know what i mean that these guys just

kind of tap into you know because like to be a big guy yeah there's footwork and all this stuff but but I think, man, shout out to the coach.

Like to the yeah, it's skill, man.

It's it's a skillful type of boxing.

It's like a, you know, there's, there's guys that are like heavy bangers and they rely on that.

And there's guys that have, you know, good defense and they rely on that.

But his thing is like this constant movement and constant feints and jabs.

And it's all with a purpose.

Everything is like setting you up.

Everything is reading what your reaction to this is and anticipating what your reaction to that is.

When's that right hand coming?

Duck under counter.

It's like constant.

The jab was going in an upward direction sometimes.

He was catching Daniel with this like upward jab.

Here's the, oh, okay, here's a breakdown.

Yeah, I've only seen highlights.

I'd actually did.

His fucking movement, man.

It's so good, man.

It's so good, the movement.

Do you know how?

What's his age?

Damn.

He's 38.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, that was a solid left.

He's old.

He's old for a boxer.

You know, and the fact that he was a cruiserweight champion, too.

And

that was the first drop.

But here's the big one.

The left hook that he knocks him out was extraordinary, man.

What are they showing here?

Okay, the counters.

This video is just about his weight transfer.

Yeah, no,

it's amazing.

I mean, he's one of the most skillful heavyweights of all time.

I think you have to go back to Cassius Clay, like before they took his title away, before they made him sit out for three years.

There's the final left hook.

Oh, my goodness.

Look at this counter.

Steps off to the left and then full weight into it.

Really long.

Like, you can tell that weight transfer was everything.

It's just constant footwork and movement.

And a lot of his training is that.

Yeah, you can see it.

He's never stationary.

Exactly.

Like, his feet are never in one place.

They're constantly moving.

Well, there's a lot of Russian fighters who fight that way.

You know, and obviously he's from Ukraine, but Bival, Bivol fights that way.

But there's a lot of these Eastern bloc fighters that have this movement style.

Like, there's a constant movement style.

And it's like, there's a lot of value in that, man.

Like, when you see flat-footed guys and you see guys who fight like that, you go, man, there's something in that.

That's extraordinary.

Yeah.

Flat-footed guys, I feel like...

A lot of them, that's where they generate their power, right?

Sure.

Kind of like relying on that, like a Deontay Wilder, you know, like

if his feet are planted and you're up against the ropes, like, bye-bye.

Yeah.

You know, like, or George Foreman in his day.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

It's heavy plotting, you know, like moving forward like this, covering up, just, but everything has just death on it.

Yeah.

You know, just looping them.

But a guy like Dubois, he can do that.

That's the thing.

That's how he fucked up AJ.

He has that crazy power.

But when you're not getting hit, and you're just moving away, and this guy's just whiffing these nuclear bombs by you over and over again.

And then after a while, he's like, he's like, headed into the third.

He's like, oh, Jesus Christ.

Yeah.

This guy is fucking not there.

And I'm exhausted.

And then you're dealing with him like sparks are flying every time he's hitting you.

And you don't know when these punches are coming because they're coming from these weird angles.

And every time you throw a punch, he's countering you.

And you're nervous that which one of these is going to really rock me.

Dude, to be in that situation during a fight is, ugh.

It's the worst.

I remember feeling like that in the Alex fight.

There was a few like jabs and stuff.

I was obviously just dizzy

and just dealing with like, okay, this guy's not slowing down and I'm hurting.

You know, like, yeah, around the fourth, he started getting that time.

When was the fight stopped?

Fourth round.

It was the fourth.

Fourth round, I think, like

probably

two and a half minutes in, something like that.

He started getting that rhythm where he was like moving away from stuff and then

coming back in.

Moving in.

Yeah.

It was unusual moving.

Obviously deceptive, but like my eye was shut.

It was, I was, I thought I was blind in my eye, but I was like, okay, whatever.

This is just...

I don't know what was what was going on with me at that fight.

I was so excited to be there.

And so

even, even in the fight, like not being able to see out of my right eye at all.

Like not blurred vision.

It was just like all I saw was white light.

Like, that's all I saw.

and in that moment I was like oh I'm blind fuck it wow yeah like literally so

I don't remember I don't know what it was like maybe

all I know is I just saw a light coming in couldn't see shadows when did that start happening that was sometime in the fourth round so you got hit with something I got hit something maybe like a jab boom and I just remember like my eye wasn't closed all the way yet, but like all I could see was just white light and I was like, oh shit, I think I went blind, but whatever.

like let's go like you know like internally like it was such this like light

positive voice going on the whole time in that fight how do you think you developed that

I don't know man it could be like a series of just like

life experiences and my

like

I don't know books that I read or just like things that I try to practice or some

enlightenment thing that I'm trying to get, or you know what I mean?

Like, I think, I think that it comes from that because I'm just,

I'm kind of always searching for the light and short, you know?

So, God, it's got to be so hard, though, in that situation, because generally speaking, there's a moment in fights where you see guys starting to get hit and tuned up, and you see hesitation, and you see panic.

And you didn't show any of that.

You were getting beat up, but you were firing back.

You were fighting at the best that you could it was very obvious to the very end yeah to the very end well you know what

so right before we went out or right before we got to the arena my coach lorenzo is like all right your nose is already cut so it's going to open up and he's like looking at me in my face you know like he's like face to face with me he's like your nose is already cut

accept it it's gonna open up first time you get hit it's gonna open up

all right that's out of the way he's like now expect that you're gonna get the shit beat out of you.

You're going to go to bloody fucking war.

He's like, you might break a hand.

You might break a leg.

You might get your jaw broken, but you don't give up.

You keep going.

We fucking come out of this fight victorious.

And he's like, you hear me?

And I'm like, yeah.

And he's like, so just fucking soak it in now.

You're about to go to fucking full-on war.

It's going, you're like, you know, like, you're about to go to hell.

Like, he's just like in my face, you know, and he's like, we're face to face.

And he's like, I need you to accept it now, son.

Cause he kind of looks at me like his son.

He treats me that way.

And I appreciate it.

He's like, you're, he's like, but we're fucking, we're fucking winning this fight, son, and you're going to fucking go to, you're going to fucking war.

And I was just,

swallowed that, walked into the arena, just kind of accepting it already.

You know what I mean?

Like, I wasn't like, oh, I was just like, okay.

Like, Lorenzo said it.

All right.

This is what it is.

This is what it is.

And so, like, in the locker room, you know, in my warm-ups and everything, I think subconsciously, I'm just like already programming myself for the worst of the worst.

Already,

but not in a way to where I'm like, oh, I'm gonna lose this fight, right?

Like, I'm like expanding, you know,

just like internally, like, okay, fuck, I'm ready for this.

All right, dude, boom, all right, my fucking hands are gonna get broken, my face is gonna get split up, all right.

And every fight's not like this, like, not every opponent, we have the same, you know what I mean, the same

thing because the strategy is always different for everybody, but some they he just had a feeling that this is the type of fight was going to be.

So, when it got down to that point, I think I had already accepted it.

So, the only thing I could do was just enjoy it, you know, because I was like, that's such a crazy thing to say.

I knew it was going to happen.

Like, I just knew it.

So, yeah, if I remember to do like the third round, fourth round, something in there, I'm just like,

Thank you.

Like, this is cool.

I'm fighting in five rounds.

I'm fighting for the world, you know,

the crowd.

I'm like, oh, my God.

Eyes closed.

Boom.

I think I'm blind.

I'm like, fuck, oh shit.

They're like, oh,

oh, he's not going back.

You know, and like, even to the last, I'm like, swinging, I can't see.

Boom, body shot hurts.

I'm like, oh,

backing up a bit.

But like, I just remember like the whole time, this, just, this very like positive feeling, man.

And that's why, like, those shorts are framed in, you know, like, I got the shorts framed, never washed them, you know, blood still on them, gloves, never wiped them off, and I just put it in a shadow box.

It's on my wall, you know, like that for me is

just, it was a, just a pivotal moment for me, just in my life as a person, as a human, you know, just,

yeah, that's like the beginning.

I think that was like, that's the beginning of the, wow, of the journey now.

So that's wild.

The world title fight is the beginning of the journey.

I thought, yeah, I thought, you know, like, oh, no, this is, like, that was the beginning because when I was there, I felt like I belonged.

Like, it wasn't foreign to me.

Like, you know,

final,

you know, main event, lights go dark.

It's just the spotlights.

You know, I've only ever watched it.

So,

yeah, I was like, okay, this is

different.

It felt like it was supposed to feel, if that makes sense.

Like, everything, I felt like that vision that i've had and it was like being there and i was just like

yeah feels about right like wow cool fucking pereira right in front of me hell yeah this feels right like this feels like yeah this is it right here um

and then obviously like you know the loss was

It took a little bit of an emotional toll on me because my focus was to win and that was my, you know, that was my intention.

But

I think, like, in hindsight, I look at it and it's like, no,

I was meant to be there to experience it and to learn from it because

the things that I did learn and experience from that fight have made me a better person, for sure.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

Well, it really showed it in the Jamal Hill fight because you you came in that fight.

It just looked like you were you had gone through something and come out of the other end.

That's what it looked like.

Because again, Jamal's world champion.

He's a dangerous, dangerous man.

And you looked supremely confident in that fight.

Yeah,

a lot of training, man.

Like,

I understand that there's a lot.

I'm a striker.

You know, like, that's just, I love to strike.

Don't stray away from a striking match.

But I think that,

like, lately, I've been training a lot with Buchecha, who just got signed to UFC.

Incredible guy.

Amazing,

like multiple time jiu-jitsu champion.

Rolling with guys like Luke, Rockhold.

I mean, being able to be like on a team with those guys and us train together has really helped me as well because

it's just given me more confidence in my abilities and my development.

as like a championship level fighter.

So yeah, I mean, like, even to, I, you know, I brought you those shorts today, the Santo Studio ones, man, we're, we're building an incredible team down there.

I think it's like the first time.

Are you familiar with what we're doing at all?

Okay, so like over at Santo Studio, Newport Beach, um, we've got Santo Studio, we've got Jackson, Jackson's like men's jewelry, um,

yeah, men's jewelry, but there's also like Jackson Media House.

And over there, we're trying to include

all of MMA fighters, extreme sports athletes, like give them like a platform to showcase, you know, their talents and build themselves.

But Santo Studio, the clothing brand, we have the sickest team.

So we've got like Buchetcha, we've got Arman, we've got, I mean, Dilla Shaw's behind it, we got Rockhold.

Man, the list goes on.

Gabriel Silva, Anderson Silva's son,

on just like the fighting side.

But then it's like Paul Rodriguez, skateboarder, Najah Houston, Ryan Sheckler, and then we got motocross riders like Jet and Hunter Lawrence.

And like, so there's all these kind of like extreme sports athletes under one umbrella, but like in one place in Newport Beach, and we all support each other under like the same type of brand.

And what is your role in this?

Ambassador fucking, I was a part of the vision before there was like the first t-shirt ever printed.

Like, Bear and I had a conversation.

He's like, hey, I got this vision.

and I'm like dude I'm behind you like I love how this sounds it's right up my alley sounds creative there's clothes involved there's training involved so

he's gone to just build this we got the Santo performance studio huge gym jujitsu mats

weightlifting

but also like shopping it dude it's it's it's unheard of but it's so cool and like it's put us all in the same place to be able to like train with each other collaborate with each other.

Like if it wasn't for Santo, I would have never been able to train with guys like Buchetcha and Bernardo and Leo Vera, you know, the Checkmat guy.

So like now there's a partnership with Check Matt, which makes me

like have access to training with these guys.

It's

I would have never been able to, you know what I mean, have that same like connection.

So we're just doing everything we can to just, you know, like support each other within this like MMA community, help each other grow

and and just like expand and also include the community

within right now Newport Beach but

I mean I'm sure that the vision is bigger than just that so this is something also that you can do once you retire this episode is brought to you by visible I want to let you in on something your current wireless Carrier does not want you to know about Visible because Visible is the ultimate wireless hack.

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I would love to, yeah.

I mean, right now, like, I think the understanding from Bear is that, like, I'm just focused on becoming a champion.

But I'm sure he knows that, like, I'm heavily interested in,

you know, doing something because I believe in the brand.

So, yeah, after this, maybe there's something.

but right now you know I have no distractions right you know what I mean like I have no distractions I'm you know I'm just making sure that

I'm fighting and that like my money's in the right place and places do you have a time

set in your head where you want to exit the game

um

How about this?

I can say that I would like for

my current contract to be my last contract.

Hmm.

How many fights do you have in your current contract?

Left

six or seven.

And that's it.

That's what you'd like.

In an ideal world.

Or like, maybe sometime not only there's like a renegotiation and it's not for as many fights, but like I think six or seven more fights would be nice and be able to like

look around and say like, okay

is this enough you know like

right is this okay for me to step away from and like am I secure is my you know is my family secure okay then

cool because time waits for no man yeah don't want to be 41 how old are you right now I turned 35 in February

so you're still in your prime still in my prime so they say

especially for a larger athlete Yeah, and I don't have music, 38.

Yeah, I don't have the wear and tear of a lot of the fighters.

Like, I didn't grow up wrestling and all that stuff.

So, 15 years into any type of

big factor.

Yeah, sports or athletics.

Football is a big factor.

Wrestling is a big factor.

Knees, back, neck.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But yeah, I mean, like, by the way that things are looking, it'd be nice.

Like,

October 4th, win over Yeari sets me up for a title fight against.

Here's an ideal situation.

Win over Yuri in October.

Alex beats Uncle Ayev.

Rematch for the belt against Alex sometime in the beginning, like the first half of next year.

Right?

Beat Alex in the rematch.

Get the belt.

I'm the champion all summer.

Then

somewhere in between summer and fall,

there's a child that comes into play.

My wife's not pregnant yet, but it'd be nice.

Oh, you got this idea.

It'd be nice.

You know what I mean?

Vision board.

I got a.

That's that's the like everyone says, like

all these guys, success.

No, no, no, no, no, you got to have a vision, man.

Like, like, you got to have a vision in life.

You do.

You know, like, if you don't have a vision or something to aim at, like, what are you doing?

You know, so, like, yeah, these are like, you know, these are

my vision, but there's like goals in between, you know, goal,

be eerie, goal,

get another shot at the title.

Vision,

start my family, finish my fight contract, be done with fighting,

live in Asia,

in Asia, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm moving back to Thailand, man.

Really?

Yeah.

100%.

1,000%.

Why?

Because that's where I want to be.

That's where I belong.

Really?

Yeah.

I belong in.

Right now, what my heart is telling me, I belong in three places.

Either Thailand, Hong Kong, or South Korea.

Why those places?

Obviously, Thailand, you know, you had amazing experiences there.

Hong Kong's amazing.

I love it there.

It's good.

I just came back from Hong Kong as well.

So in that Thailand trip, I went to Hong Kong.

I love how it's set set up.

I love the structure of the city.

I love that there's so much outdoor stuff involved.

So like when I imagine the rest of my life and how I want to live that after fighting, it's like, let's say I do have my family and there's a child in play.

Okay, cool.

If I live in Hong Kong,

I can just walk outside and take my child for a hike.

right outside the house and it's not be like i don't have to even own a car i can just

everything's walking.

It's, you know, I mean, it's like the way that this city's set up, it's set up for people to walk, to interact.

You know, it's very beautiful.

It's not,

you know,

I love it.

It's just for me when I'm there, I'm like, ah, this makes sense.

Like, especially with the vision of like who I want to be after fighting.

And why South Korea?

I like the culture in South Korea, man.

I really do.

Like, when I see that,

when I see just like the culture in South Korea, the people,

how I envision just like my family interacting with society and stuff, like to me, another thing that just makes sense.

And Thailand for me is, it just, it feels like home.

The language is very

easy for me to, you know, to speak and to like learn more of and to where I could be fluent.

I love the community there.

I love how people live their life there.

Amazing, a lot of growth happening in thailand um

it's also a lot less expensive a lot less expensive for sure um and to be able to like so like

let's say in thailand

i'm american right we're all kind of born like to live the american dream i can live the american dream anywhere i want

But for me, if I could live the American dream in Thailand, that would be

ideal.

if I could live the American dream in Hong Kong that'd be ideal you know but it's a lot more expensive in Hong Kong it's a lot more expensive do you think you say this because you live in Vegas because Vegas is kind of a crazy place in America uh not so much like I've been to many different places I mean I've been almost everywhere in the States when I was on tour and you know Austin's nice do I want to live in Austin no California absolutely not New York absolutely not Florida don't like it Shout out to my Florida fans.

Like you, I love you guys.

I'm not saying anything against,

don't hate me if I don't give you a place, if you, you know, whatever.

But

there's nowhere else in the world that I feel the way that I feel when I'm there.

That's interesting.

Has that always been the case?

Or is it just like, does it represent something to you in terms of like personal growth?

Or a vibe,

the relaxing vibe of it?

it's not so much like when I'm there, I'm relaxing, you know what I mean?

Like it's very busy.

Like there's a lot going on, but I just, I can, I realize how

I feel inside, you know, and how I'm interacting with people who I don't even know on a daily basis.

And when I think about like, I always, I'm constantly thinking about like

like my future or my vision, you know and when i think about and when i think about my vision my my future and my vision there's a child involved and

i try to think about like okay as a dad

how do i want to operate with the child or like how do how do i want you know our child to experience life

And there's just, you know, a lot of different questions and visions that come.

And the way that I've seen it or like the way that I envision it it's kind of like it makes more sense that way

you know like if I could

if I could let's say take away some of the like stress of raising a child

from my wife

by like let's say hiring help

or

you know, having instead of having a car,

having a driver to have us get through traffic so that we can still enjoy life and you know go on like a family you know dinner or take the kid here or whatever but i don't want to drive the damn car because there's too much traffic and not you know what i mean right

relax so i can relax but we can still have family time we can still do the things that families and kids do um

but it not cost me so much right

You know what I mean?

Like if I wanted to get a live-in helper here in the States to help my wife, it costs a fortune.

Yeah

It's almost impossible, but if I wanted to get a live-in helper, let's say in Hong Kong, it cost me a thousand or less dollars a month to have a full-time live-in helper, you know, and there's nothing wrong with it there.

That's just the culture.

Like in Hong Kong, you have just groups of women who are live-in helpers that like on their off day in the summer or on their off day, like on Sunday, you'll see them.

Everybody's just in the streets with tents

combing each other's hair, boom boxes out, sharing food.

It's just a part of it.

Like, that's not like literally tents in the streets everywhere.

Jamie, if you want to pull that up, you it's crazy, dude.

I don't know if you've ever seen it, but it's so cool because, like, they enjoy the life.

But, like, Hong Kong helpers

hang out or enjoying a day off or something.

It's it's just a way of life.

It's a lifestyle.

It's, it's just a new perspective that I've never seen, like that I didn't see here.

And I like it.

I just think like for me and my development and growth as just like a human being, that's just kind of where I,

it's just like a never-ending, like finding out what's next.

You know what I mean?

Like, I've constantly got to adapt and evolve.

Like, I'm American.

I have to learn a new language.

I've got to adapt to a new culture.

I've got to learn new rules and laws and all this stuff.

And like, cool, sign me up.

Like, cause that's just, I don't want my life to be like okay I know it all and I'm done and I'm just okay cool and I got the kid and I'm just you know like right I want to continue to like grow to grow right as well as you know showing someone else how to grow

um yeah see like they're not homeless they're just hanging out on their off day because they can't and they like they enjoy it no one's mad to be doing this.

Huh.

You know what I mean?

Like it's a totally safe environment for these people to be out here.

They're not interrupting anybody.

They're literally just, this is a day off.

Like, oh, what are you doing on your day off?

I'm going to go hang out with the other helpers around the city, and we're just

like, we're just chilling.

Interesting.

Because

to live there, like, the places are really small.

You know, like, if you have a thousand square foot apartment, you're most likely a multi-millionaire.

So most of the life, like, lifestyle is spent outdoors.

So for them to go outside like this and this is like a normal thing on a Sunday?

Normal.

Yeah.

On a Sunday or on a weekend?

Yeah, absolutely.

And Hong Kong, the city is supposed to be very safe, too, right?

Very safe, man.

Very, very safe.

Very safe, very clean.

Like, when I think about the stuff that I had to go through as a kid and just like the dangers and, you know,

I'm like, hmm,

how about like

my kid doesn't doesn't necessarily have to be worried about certain things, or you know what I mean?

Be worried about, like, getting shot at school, or like, like, just different things.

It's just kind of like, what can I take off?

Like, what mental load can I take off my offspring in the beginning?

I can take on whatever.

I'm a grown adult, like, whatever.

What do you think you're going to be doing with your time other than that when you're done fighting?

I have zero business experience

because I've just been so dedicated to fighting.

But

I do want to start to learn, man.

Like, I want to learn business, how to operate a business.

I, because I'm creative and I have ideas, but I don't have structure.

I don't have, you know, really like the right mentorship.

So, like,

yeah, like, I'd like to have multiple businesses.

Like, what kind of businesses?

What do you want to get into?

Something like.

Obviously, something where you can express your creativity.

Express creativity, but also like something that helps me and people, like health,

you know, health.

Health products.

Is this one of those things that you can't really think about right now?

I can't because it's just like I'm you know what I mean?

Like I'm locked in and I don't want to get too distracted.

But like, I think that's a giant, one of the signs that someone, when, when people spread themselves too thin, like, um, there's a, a bunch of fighters when things start going really well, they start getting movie offers, and then you see them on talk shows, you see a lot of this, a lot of that, you're like, uh-oh, yeah, you're getting outside of your lane and you're spreading yourself thin.

Yeah.

And there's just no way to really be locked into training while also doing that stuff.

So when you see someone preparing for a major fight and you see a lot of extracurricular activities, I'm always like, ooh, yeah.

Like Daniel Dubois had a fucking party the day of his fight.

Before the fight?

Yeah.

Oh, boy.

It's a big issue now.

People are talking about it.

There's like 90 people at his place partying the day

of the fight.

That's absurd.

Right?

That takes a lot of energy.

Just being around those people.

Yeah.

Even if you're just sitting in the party, like your energy is being zapped.

Right.

Yeah.

And obviously, if it's your fight night, everyone wants to talk to you.

Everybody has questions.

I just can't imagine why anybody would do that.

Or why there's videos of him hanging out, partying with everybody.

I mean, not drinking, not crazy, but obviously, like, hanging out, a lot of loud people talking, a lot of music, a lot of, you know,

a lot of communication.

Zaps the nervous system for sure.

Like, how do you expect to go fight Usik after your nervous system's been zapped from a party?

I understand it.

When I saw it after the fight was over, I was like,

look, he's probably going to lose anyway.

Yeah.

But

what is that?

No, it's tough, man.

I honestly, you know,

I agree with that.

I think this fight in Baku really got, like, it made me realize

how important,

like, being locked in is.

Because I was absolutely, I think that's why I got sick, to be honest, Joe.

I think that's why I got sick because I was just exhausted.

No, exhausted from the things that I had had to do, from my obligations.

Oh, so the week that I had your obligations?

So the week that I landed,

I had to do like four or five days of filming with DraftKings for this like online.

So it's like I just landed, but then like I didn't get time to adjust because the next day we got to wake up, you know, first

filming sessions at 9 a.m.

Oh, and then so we're like fight week?

No, the week before fight week.

The week before fight week.

Still.

You know, yeah, exactly.

So like I land and they came, they went to my house 2 a.m.

I'm not bitching about this because the guys were great, but this is just like my experience.

How much time did you have to spend doing that?

Oh, I mean, we spent,

you know, we spent a week of filming.

How much time each day?

Five, six hours.

What?

Yeah.

What?

That's crazy.

It wasn't every day that we filmed.

I don't remember.

But it was like we did a lot of filming that week

for this content piece or whatever for drafting.

And then, as soon as they left, then it was fight week, and then I had all the media stuff for fight week.

Oh, my God.

You know what I mean?

And I think by time, like with jet lag, with training involved, with the filming, with all of that, I think by time fight week came, like my body's like, fuck you.

Yeah.

That's exactly how it felt.

What were you doing that they needed you for five, six hours in a day?

Like,

you know, here's the thing: I'm grateful because I wouldn't have been able to experience Baku the way that I did had I not done this.

So it's like you made some extra money.

Yeah, so we go to the old town and then like get a tour through old town for three hours.

And the lady's like, this is this.

So I got information and they're filming me, you know, good information.

And then from the old town, then we go somewhere else.

And, you know, so where ideally you would be resting

or doing my own training.

Yeah.

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Resting or adjusting.

Yeah, but when you're forced to interact, like that's, I mean, you're dealing with something where you have this monumental moment that's coming up in 14 days.

And then you just.

Yeah, but I just, like, that's what I'm saying.

Like, my, my main thing was, like,

embrace it.

You know what I mean?

Like, just embrace it.

Take it all in.

Yeah, it's fucking hard.

But that mentality can only get you so far, right?

That's why, like, I really

feel like

I'm going to get fucking eaten alive for this.

Not if you don't read it.

I really feel like that was like Alex having so many fights last year

and obligations and travel and all that.

When he, I feel like that probably had a big,

played a big factor in why his performance was the way it was against Uncle Ive.

Well, supposedly he went into that fight with Norovirus and he had a fucked up hand.

I honestly, like,

I believe it.

It seemed like

he wasn't hitting the gas as much.

You know, it seemed like he was a little bit more.

Also, Uncle Iv is fucking good, man.

He's good.

That guy's really good.

I mean, he's, he's you're smiling.

I can't smile.

You can, but you smile like, come on, man.

I'm just smiling.

What is your opinion on Uncle Ive?

I don't have one.

You don't have any opinion at all?

No, not one.

No, because he's the champ.

Okay.

I get it.

Yeah.

Let's go back to Alex.

Yeah.

Noravirus.

Are you just not a fan of his?

I can say confidently, am I a fan?

Absolutely not.

As a human or a fighter?

Both.

Okay.

So have you had bad interactions with him as a human?

He just talks shit.

I hate people that talk shit.

Dude, I just don't like it.

I don't like people who talk shit for no reason.

If I didn't say anything to you, if I've never fucking mentioned your name,

then why are you talking shit to me or about me or disrespecting me?

Well, people talk shit because he gets some attention.

And I think a guy like Akolayov, there was a long period in his career where he didn't talk shit.

And he wasn't getting a lot of attention.

I mean, look, he had that fight with Jan Bohovich where it was for the title.

It went to a draw.

No one gets the title.

It was a crazy experience, right?

And a very good fight.

And people were mad at him.

And he had to sit on the shelf for a while.

It was kind of fucked up.

So that makes him talk shit about these.

I think he talks shit about everybody because you realize, look, this is what happened to Colby Covington.

There's a thing that happens.

Like if you talk shit, you will get more eyes, more attention, more money, and you'll get fights.

And if you do not talk shit, there's a possibility that you'll be cut.

I know.

It's not you.

It's not you.

Yeah.

Look, and here I am.

I appreciate it.

I'm still getting good fights and good money, and it's like...

As is Pereira, right?

Pereira just fights.

I mean, he doesn't even speak English, and he's beloved over here.

Yeah.

You know, but

you can get by with just your performance.

but some people they they think like man i gotta get people to fucking pay attention there's there's so many killers out there there's so many people that are popular i gotta do something yeah so fight better

i hear you i hear you that's that that's the only thing it's like it's just a shit talk i hate it dude like i fucking hate it like it it really hates because you're a martial artist and you feel like it doesn't have a place in my life i just hate it because it's fucking unnecessary.

And it's like, and

even as an adult, like I had to deal with this shit my whole life.

Right.

And it's a fucking toxic

way of fucking being and it's passing along through social media and kids are fucking getting beat up for it.

And we're fucking grown men on a large platform where people are looking up to us.

for many different things and they envision us as these fucking gladiators and this is what you're choosing to do as a fucking.

We have a responsibility.

I feel like as athletes, as champion, number fucking one, as champion, you have a responsibility.

You have a belt around your waist and all these eyes and microphone, and that's what you're going to choose to say: talk shit and degrade my name.

And I'm not even above you.

I'm not even challenging you for a fight.

And you want to mention me.

And like that, to me, is just like, dude, spend your time wisely.

So that it's in a way, it's motivation for me because I'm like,

I just won't do that.

Like, I think that there's so many different things that can be done when you have that belt.

Like that belt is an honor, like to have that.

There's a responsibility that comes with that.

There's things that you can do with that.

Like, it's not just about you.

Realize the responsibility that you have when you carry that title.

And so there's just,

I'm getting passionate about it because there's just, I want to say so many things, but I'm not going to.

I know what you're saying.

I feel you.

I feel you.

I feel like there's a couple of guys who kind of changed the game.

One of them was Chaleson and another one is Conor McGregor.

And part of the way they changed the game was talking mad shit and getting a lot of people to pay attention to them.

Yeah.

Which,

cool.

You know, like, it got them a lot of attention.

It got them a lot of money.

But, like.

And if that's what makes them happy, cool.

You know?

I think some people think it's a good business decision.

Like I said, I know nothing about business.

Maybe that's why I don't own a business.

I don't know.

It's good that you don't own a business.

You don't want to own a business while you're in the middle of this journey that you're on.

It's just like you, it wouldn't, it would just drain you.

It would take time from you.

It's not, you can only do so many things in this life, and especially when you're doing something that's all encompassing physically.

It's not like, you know, you have

a business and you have a side business project that's a passion project that you're working on.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

You're fighting.

Fighting, you have to be all in in fighting.

You really do.

You are all in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And while you're all in.

Look, I admire people that don't talk shit, but I also like a little shit talking.

I do.

Yeah.

Because it's fun.

And it gets people excited, and it does get a lot of eyes on the sport, and it makes for more pay-per-view buys.

Yeah.

Which is why I think the, you know, like the UFC encourages it.

Whether they encourage it or not, they use those things.

When Connor fought Khabib, they threw in the video of Connor throwing the fucking

dolly at the bus.

Remember that?

Which is crazy.

It's kind of almost encouraging that kind of behavior, which is crazy.

No, it's, I mean, like,

UFC, as real as it gets, right?

So you kind of get everything.

You get everything.

They don't say it anymore, though, do they?

As real as it gets.

I don't think that's a part of it.

Sometimes

early days, it's it's stuck in my brain, but yeah, there are different things, there are a lot of different, I guess, characters, personalities.

You know, yeah, Connor throwing the thing through, you know, the dolly through the window.

Is it gonna make people watch the fight?

Absolutely, you know what I mean?

Did he do it for that reason?

Don't think so.

I just think

he is who he is, right?

It's like we never know what's next with uh, with Connor and respect, you know, respect to him for everything.

But,

um,

I just,

yeah, I, uh,

I and I understand your perspective as well.

Like, a little shit talk, you know,

yeah, it's entertaining.

You know, you see two guys, like, oh, yeah, but I completely appreciate your perspective as well.

Yeah, and I certainly appreciate your perspective having grown up through all that stuff.

Like, why include it?

Especially when what you're doing is the ultimate test of who you are as a human.

Like, what was the ultimate test of who you are as a man?

The actual fight itself, which is going to happen no matter how much shit you talk.

Yeah, and whoever, like, whoever talks shit to me,

you know, from

not even from now on, but like, whoever talks shit to me, like, I back it up.

You know what I mean?

Like, I don't need to say anything in return.

Like, I'm just going to back it up.

I'm not, I don't want to give anybody any more attention or, you know, say people's names and stuff.

Connor and Khabib was the ultimate example of that, right?

Yeah.

When Khabib was on top of him, it's like, let's talk now.

And he kept punching him in the face.

Let's talk now.

Yeah.

I mean, I love Khabib for that.

Like, I, I, you know, a lot of people

I can relate to that, you know, like, I can relate to that, to that feeling of

a guy.

Yeah.

He had this really amazing conversation.

Someone was interviewing him, and they were talking about different addictions that fighters fall to and different things that sidetrack people.

And he's like, the best addiction is is discipline.

And he was talking about his discipline.

The best addiction is discipline.

You got to become addicted to discipline, addicted to hard training, addicted,

completely addicted to that.

That makes me feel like a scrub.

I mean, like, I'm dead, how fucking good he was, man.

That's discipline, but like, damn, addicted to it?

Yeah.

I mean, when he talks, see if you can find that, Jamie.

You got it?

Here, here, listen to this

every man addicted to something some smoke some drink some chase girls some whiskey but real man he addicted to discipline to early wakes to prayer to training to silence discipline no need motivation discipline move without feeling discipline say I go anyway even when tired even when lonely discipline is best addiction you want strong life discipline build it You want peace?

Discipline protected.

You want respect?

Discipline earned.

No shortcut, only work.

Be men with control, not men with excuse.

No cry, no blame.

You want better life?

Start with better habits.

Discipline every day until discipline become you.

I'm going to use that as my morning wake-up now.

Do you know that?

That's what I was just thinking in my mind.

I'm like, dude, where do I include this in my daily routine?

Like

when I wake up, that should be your alarm.

Or is it like,

you know, do I just sit and like listen to this before I fall asleep?

No, no, no.

You won't be able to sleep.

Why is it?

Dreams of Khabib just standing over here.

Well, not real.

No, you're not a real man.

It's interesting because Chael Sun and had a video recently.

So incredible, man.

Shout out to Khabib for that.

Shout out to Khabib.

I mean, that's why he is who he is.

Chaoson and I had a really interesting video the other day.

We were talking about how people say that Dagestan is the place where you should take your kids.

You know, you want to

take them to Dagestan two, three years and forget it.

There's like a fun line that like Cormier has said, he's taking his son to Dagestan.

And that's one of the things that Bilal Muhammad said.

If I could do my career over again, I would have went to Dagestan earlier.

Yeah.

And I would have stayed there for years.

And then Chal Sunnin had a very interesting point, which I think he's totally accurate.

And he's he's like, they're not doing anything any different.

He goes, but they don't have football.

They don't have basketball.

They don't have baseball.

So the best athletes go into MMA.

The best athletes go into wrestling.

The best athletes go into combat sports in Dagestan.

And so he's like, what you get is you have genetics, which is an ultimate requirement of the elite of the elite.

At the top of the game, it's like discipline and genetics.

Those are the two things that separate the men from the boys.

And

he's like, we have all those things in America.

It's just when you're dealing with the elite of the elite, it's like, what pool are you drawing from?

One thing that I think they do have there, though, is this.

The fact that they're all very religious.

And the fact that there's no drinking, there's no partying, there's no nothing.

There's no chasing girls.

There's no bullshit.

It's just prayer and training.

that's a, that's a major advantage.

But you could do that anywhere.

Yeah.

You could do anyone could live that way.

Yeah, anyone can live that way.

I'd imagine that, like, being in Dagestan because of, you know, just like the cultural differences.

Not to say that it would be easier, but you're dealing with less, right?

Like you can do it here, but like

you go outside, you're going to find a bar.

You're going to find something.

Yeah.

Like, you know, like the

you know, but you have to make conscious decisions not to have that in your life, yeah, which like doing it here would probably actually make you stronger, right?

Because you have to deal with more resistance because you have to deal with more resistance, yeah, you know what I mean.

Yeah, like if you go out away where there's nothing, like, yeah, cool, but then come back to the real world and try to do it, and it's gonna be like

right.

But isn't that why most I mean, from the beginning of time, fighters would take their camps away from life, yeah, like Marvin Hagler, he would he would go to the Cape.

He would go to Cape Cod and train in the winter.

Cassius Clay and Muhammad Ali, you know, they would go up into the mountains.

You know,

there's definitely Tyson with the cat skills.

There's something different about it, right?

Like there's some of Big Bear.

Everybody goes to Big Bear and trains up there.

Yeah, when I fought Alex, I was in Salt Lake or I was in

what's the mountain up there?

What's the.

In Utah?

Yeah.

Washatch?

No.

Above Salt Lake.

Everybody goes

skiing up there.

Damn it.

What's it called, dude?

Why am I...

Mount Nebo?

No.

Park City?

Park City.

Oh, okay.

I was out in Park City for like two or three weeks before

distractions in Park City, son.

But not where we were.

No?

No.

Like,

the cabin that I rented out there was like

there was nothing there.

How much time did you spend up there?

Like

17 days, 18 days, something like that.

So like the tail end of the camp, we were just like up there.

Did you have to acclimate to the

altitude?

How much time does that usually take?

Because that doesn't seem like enough.

17 days doesn't seem like enough.

We

I don't remember exactly how much time, but we

for two weeks before that were regularly going up to Mount Charleston and to running other mountains and stuff like outside of Vegas.

Right, because because there is quite a bit of elevation outside of Vegas.

And I think Vegas itself is...

Five?

I think it's no, I think it's 2,000 feet above sea level.

Something like that.

What's Vegas above sea level?

2,000 one feet above 12.

Yeah, so there's Vegas is 2,000 feet above sea level.

There's a road right up by where we train.

Like it's called Mount Podicy, and that's like seven,

no

6,000 something like that.

So it's like, and it's it's very short, like very short distance drive.

And you go train up there.

there.

We'd just drive there and then we'd just run out there, train out there, come back down home.

One of the things that I've heard,

there's different philosophies on how to handle training and altitude, but one of the things that I've heard is what you should do is you should train at sea level and then sleep and live at a high altitude.

So that way you get more output at sea level because you're getting more oxygen, so you can put in more work.

And then when you're at the higher altitude, your body is adapting and developing more red blood cells and all that stuff and more adaptation for oxygen.

Makes sense.

I've heard that as well.

I just haven't tried it.

That makes sense to me.

Yeah.

Because it's just that the idea, but then it's like there's a mental benefit of being able to put in the work at a higher altitude.

You know, and then knowing that, like, say if you train, like, I lived for a while outside of Boulder.

I lived at this place that was 8,500 feet above sea level.

Oh, my God.

It was, it was, working out there was rough.

Yeah.

It was crazy that when I would go to Boulder to train, I would go to Amal Easton's Jiu-Jitsu gym.

It felt easier because it was only 5,000 feet.

Because that's like Boulder's like 5,000 something.

And then one time

we had to go to Philadelphia for like a UFC event and I was working out in Philadelphia and I felt like a fucking juggernaut.

I was like, I have so much energy.

This is crazy.

It's because I was at sea level.

Yeah.

And I'm not used to being at sea level.

So when I was working out, I felt so good.

I was like, oh my god, I have so much fucking energy.

It's because I'm used to being oxygen deprived.

Have you seen that thing they have at the PI?

The ozone machine?

No.

What is it?

The one that takes your blood and recycles it?

No, that's like it's a

altitude simulator.

So I want to do it, but they're like, you got to commit to like a couple months of training to see like the real benefit of this.

Oh, so you have to be there for a few months.

You have to like...

Do you utilize that place?

Because you are a Vegas guy.

I love, like, they have, you know, amazing physical therapists.

Nutrition.

Yeah, nutrition.

It's very convenient, you know, especially like living there.

I just try to stay.

I don't try to get too involved because every fighter can go and it's just like you kind of run into other camps and blah, blah, blah.

A lot of shit talking there.

Yeah, a lot of shit talking.

Or just

energy.

Energy.

And everybody.

John Wood has such a great gym, too.

Oh, yeah.

Syndicate is.

Syndicate's so good.

John's such a great guy.

Yeah, man.

Great vibe.

So happy for everything right now with just like Murab and

him and I and what we're doing.

I love the fact that Murab, even, like, he's still tight with his old crew.

You know what I mean?

It's like, and the same thing, even when AJ was training down there, they're still tight

with Ray Longo and Matt Sarah and all those guys that got him to the dance.

And then you see those guys also in his corner.

It's a very collaborative thing where there's no, the egos don't get in the way.

No,

that's huge.

That's such a cool thing to respect.

So cool.

Like everybody around him.

Training partners, too.

Like

he just.

He's got a bunch of Georgian guys in it.

It's like.

Yeah.

If the guys at the top have a great vibe and they're all like collaborative and work together, you know, really...

you feel that vibe in the gym.

Yeah, it spreads.

His energy is definitely like infectious.

And one thing that's cool, too, is like

the way that John's organized training in Syndicate now when people have fights coming up and like you're doing your live cage rounds and the whole gym's watching.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Yeah, everybody's around the cage.

You know what I mean?

So you get used to that.

It's so cool.

It's so cool.

What is it like having a robot at training?

Is there a fucking guy that has a better gas tank than that motherfucker?

I haven't seen him.

Dude, my week, the fight week.

Actually, I had just

the day of my fight.

Okay.

Day of my fight.

Woke up.

Called John.

I'm like, hey, man, want to get a shakeout?

Just like, shake out some nerves.

Like, you know, just hit some pads.

He's like, okay, cool.

I'm down in the ballroom with Murab.

He's like, but you got to wait a few minutes.

Like, he's going some rounds.

I'm like, rounds?

And he's like, yeah, you just got, you got to come down here and see it.

So I'm like, I go downstairs in the elevator.

We can get to the room murab is doing live rounds on carpet hard floor in a fucking ballroom with some guy and they're they're sparring rounds bro the day of the fight of my fight so he didn't have a fight but it this was a week after his uh his second fight against o'mally

so they're doing live rounds on the carpet shingards everything but like takedowns

Jesus Christ.

On hard floor and carpet.

And he just doesn't stop.

It's like, it's like training never ends.

Well, that's how you get staff.

That's probably why you got staff.

Who knows, you know, but you like, like, they're just no one can stop the guy.

Like, he's just a big ball of energy.

He really is.

Like, whether it's running up and down mountains and all this stuff, like, John Wood actually has to have some type of like monitor on this guy.

He's like, remora, don't train today.

Okay, coach, okay, coach.

Next thing you know, he's on social media, like out in the mountains, you know, or in some river.

Like, it just, he's, yeah, having him, having him around is crazy.

Yeah, DC went to visit him the day after the O'Malley fight, the first fight, and he went to his house and he was running.

Yeah.

The day after he won the world title.

And DC goes to his house and he's like, look at my Rob's home gym.

He goes, you know where this motherfucker is?

He's out running.

He's out running.

The discipline.

That fucking community is talking about.

It's discipline.

He's addicted to discipline.

It never ends.

That's it.

I think he's just one of those guys.

I mean, I just, there's a lot of people that that are analyzing it they're like it has to be genetic and it

does it does it like is his head is his head bigger is his chest bigger like what's bigger it's all the same he's a normal size guy yeah there's nothing there's nothing extraordinary about his physicality other than the fact that he's very strong yeah which is there's a lot of strong guys but it's not it's the accumulation of time spent on the path

and he has not deviated yeah at all and i don't think he's anywhere close to

he's not even in his prime.

No.

I mean, I mean, he's in his prime, clearly, but I don't think he's reached his full potential because I think he was even better in the second O'Malley fight than he was the first fight.

And I think O'Malley was considerably better.

Yeah.

But Murab's that much better now.

And, you know, it's this thing that happens, and hopefully you'll get to experience this, when you win a title, you get better.

There's like, DC says it's like 10%.

It's like there's something that happens.

Some people say 30%, but there's something that happens to you where you realize, like, I am the fucking best in the world.

And you take that into your heart and your mind.

And then you carry that.

Like, now you have that title.

You see it.

It's sitting there on your table or you have it on your wall, whatever, wherever you put your belt.

And you're like, I am the fucking man now.

And now I will live this way.

And then you see them going into the fight.

You know who you see that with?

Pantosia.

Yeah.

That dude does not get the love that he deserves.

When that guy gets into the octagon, it's like a fucking leopard just just entered the room yeah it's wild man it's wild like he's got this feeling about him that you know champions have when when they're just fucking feeling it you know when that guy steps into the octagon you you see him across the ring from whoever the fuck he's fighting it's like that's a that's a cat man yeah

honestly yeah like a yeah yeah like a fucking jaguar or something jaguar or mountain yeah something like that

just some elite killer.

You can kind of sense that like a little instinct in it.

Like, oh, shit.

100%, man.

100%.

He's in it.

Like, he's for sure in it.

He's locked in.

I mean, and you see the, like, I think the perfect fight for him was seeing Kaikara France, they fought in the ultimate fighter, and it was a good fight.

And then you see this new fight where as he's the champion, Kaikara France is the contender.

He fucking ran through him, man.

Like, you see, it's a different human being.

He's a champion now.

When he's in trade?

He's ATT.

ATT.

I mean, I don't know if he spends

all of his time down there.

I don't know if he's there all the time or if he just goes there for camps.

I don't know how he does it.

I'm not sure if he's

a Florida resident or if he lives in Brazil and just goes there for camps.

I'm not sure.

Nah, but yeah,

whatever he's doing is definitely...

Yeah, but it's just a thing about being the flyweight champ where if that motherfucker was the middleweight champ he'd be a superstar he'd be the

superstar

and that to me that drives me nuts because like you just i like martial arts i like someone who represents the best of martial arts like and in my mind like that guy's as good as anybody alive like when when he's running over every fucking contender yeah and and choking them out or knocking them out or whatever the fuck he's doing like damn yeah it's tough man it's like, it's tough in this sport because of the weight, the weight classes.

Like, a lot of guys don't get.

What's crazy is 35 gets so much love.

Yeah, it's just 10 pounds difference.

10 pounds difference.

Isn't that nuts?

Yeah.

That's kind of nuts.

Yeah.

Because when you see Pantosia next to those guys, there's not much difference in size.

It's kind of the same.

That's why, like, I forgot.

Somebody not too long ago asked me, like,

my,

what would my MMA, like, Mount Rushmore be?

And I remember saying, like, Anderson Silva, GSP,

Demetrius Johnson, and Amanda Nunes.

And they were like, Demetrius Johnson like, oh,

why would you even hesitate?

Hesitate.

Why are you even asking me that question?

You know, if you weren't there during his prime,

you had to see him during his prime.

You know?

When he was...

Talk about martial arts

and just skill, angles, finesse, movement, speed, and

intelligence,

knowing exactly how to engage, and his ability to transfer between grappling and striking seamlessly.

Dude,

seamlessly.

Perfect word.

Seamlessly.

Oh.

In his prime.

In his prime, he was unstoppable.

Yeah.

But imagine Demetrius Johnson at light heavyweight.

There's

statues of this man.

Statue.

You know what I mean?

It'd be like the Rocky statue in Philadelphia.

Yeah, who knows where it would be, bro.

There would probably be multiple statues of this man all over the place.

What a great guy, too.

Oh, he's the best.

And just, again, just underappreciated for whatever reason.

And during his reign, it just like his pay-per-view numbers were not what they should have been.

But it's because he's small.

That's all it is.

It's like the casuals.

They don't.

Who gives a shit?

how big he is compared to you?

Just look at how he's the same size as the guy he's fighting, and look what he can can do to that guy.

We need to just, we need to have

this is a joke.

This isn't serious.

This is a joke, but like

smaller weight classes in a smaller cage.

Well, it would make them look bigger on television, and people will get what they, you know.

Now, they don't care.

People don't.

It's interesting because boxing has the same thing.

You know, I mean, when you get into the heavier weight, look, look, Usik made somewhere in the neighborhood of $132 million for that fight.

That sounds amazing.

Doesn't it?

Yeah.

I know.

It was me and Volkanovsky and Izzy were backstage at the UFC, we're at the weigh-ins, and I pulled up the numbers.

I go, Have you seen the fucking numbers?

There's a video of it on Stilebender's website or his YouTube page.

And I'd be like, check this out.

Because I had saved on my phone in case I ran into any fighters.

I'm like, look at this.

Look how crazy this is.

And Dubois made like $71 or $72 million.

And Usik made like $132 million.

I mean, like if I made that type of money I wouldn't have to I wouldn't be looking to like leave to live the UFC

for that to happen I mean does this do the Saudis have to buy the UFC I don't know because I don't understand like that's kind of what they're doing with boxing they're kind of buying boxing yeah I don't know man I don't know like I don't know what needs to change

but

I mean all I'm saying is like it would be really cool that's like a dream like to be able to make those kind of numbers.

I would really love that for fighters.

I mean, I love when I hear fighters are making millions.

It's great.

It's great.

Because I remember the early days of the UFC where people would make pennies.

Yeah.

When there was no money to be made.

I mean, I started working for them in 1997, the previous owners, you know, when it was before Zufa.

And nobody was making any money.

There was no money in MMA.

You know, it's like everybody was scratching and clawing, and they were just doing it out of the love of the game.

Yeah.

Or because they had, you know, had a career in wrestling, and then that wrestling, amateur wrestling career was over, and they're like, all right, I'm going to be a fighter.

Yeah, the money was in Japan, no.

There was money in Japan.

But even the money in Japan was not boxing money.

No, no, 10 grand.

Yeah.

15 grand.

You know, I'm sure they paid him well.

And at the time, it was a lot.

But I mean, like, Fedor's still fighting.

Is he fighting because he wants to?

Or is he fighting because he has to?

You know, which is crazy.

Yeah.

If one of the greatest of all time is fighting because he has to, it's not like Fedor is like living the craziest, flashiest lifestyle with like diamonds, like Floyd Mayweather.

Like, if Floyd Mayweather went broke, he'd be like, look at his Instagram.

How's he not going to go broke?

Yeah.

Meanwhile, he's not.

Meanwhile, he's still got tons of money.

But, you know, Floyd made hundreds of millions of dollars.

He probably made more money than any boxer that's ever lived.

Oh, man.

I, yeah, it's a dream.

Yeah.

It's a dream.

It'd be nice, but I'm not like,

I'm glad glad that it's improving.

It's improving.

It's improving.

It's definitely improving.

It's definitely, it's like, you know, fighters can get rich now.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah, we can actually plan retirement.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like that, that, that for now, like I'm saying, like, I'm grateful for it.

And one of the things that I really like about the UFC too is they give fighters a chance to have a career outside of that.

You know, like Paul Felder and DC do commentary.

Chel Sunnin does his stuff.

Yeah.

All those guys in the desk, Alan Joban, they all do their stuff.

Like Rashad does his stuff.

It's nice.

It's like there's, there's an opportunity to work outside of having to fight.

You asked me, you know, like before, like, oh, you know,

what would you do?

Or, like, have I thought about anything?

I honestly, I would love to work with the UFC, not as a commentator, because I don't really see myself like commentating or like being, you know, someone speaking, but I'd love to work for the UFC.

Why wouldn't you want to commentate or speak?

I don't know.

I personally, I think I've mentioned this to you before, like, I just don't know if I have so much like input, you know, when it comes to like other fighter skill or whatever.

Like, I'm not the most exciting person on a microphone.

You know, like,

you guys do what you're like, oh, fuck.

Like, you know, you guys have great reactions.

I'm kind of more like, hmm, interesting.

Like, the old grandpa, you know, right, right, right, right.

Rubbing my chin.

But maybe not as a commentator then.

Maybe as someone on the desk analyzing things.

Because you definitely have a very unique viewpoint yeah viewpoint i mean that that could work but i think something like i'd i don't know i'd rather be like

i guess behind behind the like on the other side of the camera what would you want to be doing i don't know something within the business they do that like the ufc is such a large company there's so many departments i am friends with

I try to make friends with everybody in every department because they're just great people that make that make this all happen.

The equipment team, you know, Ember, Stephanie, like, I've been testing the gloves for the UFC for the past year, making sure we get the right ones.

You know what I mean?

What is going on with the gloves?

Because you and Alex fought with the old the new old gloves.

The new old gloves.

Yeah.

Because they got rid of them.

Yeah.

They spent like a fucking year developing them.

Yeah.

And so I was a part of that entire process.

What happened?

What was wrong with those gloves?

The main thing was that, like, because of the leather,

the logos weren't sticking.

So the logos were peeling off, peeling off, peeling off.

That's it.

And we tried,

Joe, I'm telling you, we tried

hundreds of different ways to get

the UFC logo printed on the gloves so that they will not come off in the octagon.

From me testing it on the canvas, doing live situations, sparring, rubbing in the cage, blah, blah, blah.

I don't get it.

It just works.

Why does the old leather work better?

Because with

everything in the world, but especially like in the in the industry of like

like leather and suede and all this stuff, like you can't, if I had a pair of leather shoes from 1970, it's going to be different than a leather that's made today.

You get what I mean?

Like it just, it changes.

Both of them are made today.

The old gloves and the new old gloves.

It's a different type of leather.

So it's a softer leather?

It's just, it's,

it's just not the same.

Like, it's, it's, it's a little, it was a little softer, but

it's treated differently to be able to, you know, to

before, like while it's being processed or whatever that whole process looks like, it's just there's some type of, you know, chemical or something that's just different.

Because what I had heard was that there was less knockouts with the new old gloves, the gloves that they developed and then they abandoned recently.

There's less knockouts.

Because I'm just hearing straight from what

the equipment team is being yelling at.

So the equipment team is saying that's the issue, is that this leather.

It has nothing to do with

the knockouts.

It's that every time when the fighters come to return a pair of gloves or whatever, or even in the fight,

it's peeling off or chipping off, and that's a hazard if it gets in your eye.

Right.

You know what I mean?

It's more about the safety of the fighter, not like, we need more knockouts, change the gloves.

Interesting.

Because

the knockout thing didn't make any sense.

No, no, no.

It has nothing to do with the knockouts.

It's more that the logo wasn't adhering, and it doesn't look professional to have these guys fighting a championship fight, and then here's this guy raising his hand, and you don't even know that there's no UFC logo on the glove.

It all gets worn off.

It all gets worn off.

So

we've tried so many different...

That wouldn't work?

We can't sell a glove with magic marker on it.

Yeah, but we have to make an official glove, you know?

But the training gloves, you know, just have UFC somewhere else.

The training gloves.

What about the people who want to buy an official ufc glove yeah what are they doing with them if they're going to work out with them still got to be official i get it you know the best gloves are trevor whitman's he makes the best

the best mma gloves they're the best and the ufc was trying to get those for some

i don't i don't want to speak out of line here or out of turn i don't know exactly what went on but apparently trevor wanted more money than they were willing to give him but he makes the absolute best mma gloves.

They're the best.

That's a good glove.

They turn over like this, where it's not like this.

So you don't like the thing that people, the problem with the old gloves that are now the gloves that everybody uses is that everybody says that they kind of force your hand into an open position and you have to tighten up to make them close.

Do you feel that?

I agree with that, but I've I have found a solution to that.

What's the solution?

Just size up.

Oh, one size up?

Yeah.

They all weigh the same.

Interesting.

Yeah.

So, what size do you use?

This last fight, I used a double X.

And you usually use an X?

Yeah.

Interesting.

And I think it's like, you know, a lot of fighters, we don't like to stray from what we do.

You know what I mean?

And like, every little thing can fuck with us.

You know what I mean?

Some fighters.

Maybe I shouldn't have gone to XXL.

Yeah.

That's why I didn't knock them out.

You know what I mean?

But

yeah, if, like,

you just have to think.

It's like, okay, the glove weighs the same.

Whether it's an XL or an extra small, it weighs the same.

How do they manage that?

I don't know.

But it weighs the same.

That sounds suspicious.

I'm gonna get a fucking scale out.

That doesn't make any sense to me.

But we're all fighting and unless they make it with thinner pads.

I don't.

It would have to be.

Maybe.

It would have to be.

Oh, yeah, because then your hand can't fit in the yeah yeah like if I tried to get into an extra small it wouldn't work so yeah um

but like let's say the size between an XL and a double X they weigh the same okay

and

I have to consider okay I'm getting my hands wrapped as well right so yes this XL glove fits like a glove but what about when I wrap my hands right now I wrap my hands it's too tight

and then now my hands are like this and I'm like cutting off your circulation almost yeah so the idea is size up.

Even if it's two sizes up, you're not going to have an issue.

You know?

Or you go with a thinner wrap or no wrap.

You have that option.

Well, Joe Pfeiffer fights with no wrap.

Yeah.

Which is crazy.

I think it's savage.

I kind of want to do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would have fought with no wrap with the other glove.

The new glove.

The new old glove.

The new.

The new one that they abandoned.

The old, new glove.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I would have fought.

Those felt so much better to me with no wrap.

Man, if I was the UFC, and clearly I'm not a good businessman, but if I was,

I would say, listen, how about

you sell us the gloves, we'll promote your gloves, you sell them on your website, we don't make any profit off of it.

Just give us your gloves to use for the fights, and we'll blow your business up.

That's what I would do.

I would say, look, you want a lot of money for your gloves?

Good, sell them.

Everybody should buy them anyway.

He makes the best bag gloves, best barring gloves trevor's a fucking wizard man yeah that's what i've gathered from just like

very interesting guy very smart guy great trainer just great person but his gloves his mma gloves you put them on you're like oh why aren't they all like this yeah the padding is a much more sophisticated yeah and the boxing i remember i think one time he sent me a pair of boxing gloves um

like this was a couple of years ago and i saw like it came with this paper and you're supposed to put a a blow dryer in it first, and you turn the blow dryer on to warm up the padding in there, and specifically, like, for that, and then once it's heated up, then you put the glove on, and you wrap it up, and then you let the padding cool down, and then it molds to your hand.

I don't know if people remember that about the glove, but that's

that's the that's how you should wear those gloves.

Oh, that's interesting.

I didn't know that that makes sense.

Yeah, but he told, he was explaining to me the different kinds of foam that you can buy, and that people buy cheap foam, and it's it's not as high density, and it's not as good, doesn't protect you as well.

And his is like the most expensive, but the best.

But when his gloves, the design of his gloves, your hands are curled, like this, this position.

So it's an effort to do that.

But

I don't know, man.

I feel like we're

stagnant in innovation with glove development in the first place because I don't think this is necessary.

No.

I train with the old Ali mittens.

Oh, okay.

Those are my favorite gloves in the world to do MMA with.

Put a wrap on under it, you know, for padding or a pad, whatever.

And I can still grapple with it.

My fingers are just like this.

Of course, which is, but this is how you grapple anyway.

Yeah, exactly.

You never do this.

No.

You never interlace your fingers.

So why are the fingers even exposed?

Because eye pokes are a giant issue.

And if you let's say you could just eliminate finger pokes and all you have is thumb pokes.

You would take away 80-90% of all eye pokes.

Yeah.

And it would be obvious if someone did it on purpose.

And then Derek Lewis would be fucked.

How about that interview?

Like, I'll poke him in the eye, kick him in the nuts.

He's so crazy.

What a goose.

He's telling the truth about hitting someone in the nuts because he was tired.

Yeah, he's like, I was tired.

I needed five more minutes or some shit.

He's like, I'll poke him in the eye.

I cheat.

He was just like, I cheat.

I was like, dude, this, what the hell?

But he's also crazy enough to say that

he's like, oh, yeah, the UFC is scripted.

Oh, yeah, that was ridiculous.

I was like, dude, anybody, I was like, I know you're joking, but like.

The problem is that gets on the internet.

There's so many people that now believe you.

I knew it.

Yeah, like, there's so many people that believe you now.

Like, that's a funny joke, but damn it, dude.

Bro, there's no script.

When you see the way he knocked out Curtis Blades, there's no script for that, bro.

Yeah, you can't

script.

Derek has got some phenomenal, God-given power.

You cannot script what we do.

Yeah, no, of course you can't script it.

It's super obvious to anybody that watches.

That's the dumbest ever casual fan

comments.

It's a scripted fake.

He was supposed to win.

Yeah, like, oh,

stop, stop, shut up.

And then you have Tina White made him win that fight.

Oh, it's so crazy to say.

But that said, like, here's the thing.

You know, Aspinall is going to fight Cyril Gon.

Yeah.

I might,

if I was running things, I might set up the Derek Lewis fight with Aspinall.

I might say, forget Cyril Gone for now.

Like, Derek just has his big knockout win.

Who's more popular than Derek?

Who's more beloved by fans than Derek?

Yeah, I mean, that would be a great fight to set up.

Absolutely.

But I think that from, I guess, a business standpoint, it makes sense to use Cyril because of everything that he's doing in France.

Okay.

Yeah, that makes sense, right?

Movie star.

You know what I mean?

He's got the entire country behind him now.

So, like,

yeah, with the inner, with the UFC, you know, expanding internationally, it's like, you know, Aspinall is a,

you know, British icon.

Cyril's a French icon.

The whole Aspinall John Jones thing is so crazy.

The whole thing is so crazy.

Yeah, absolutely.

John doesn't seem to.

John marches to the beat of his own drummer, son.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, like, he's dead set in what he wants and how he views it.

Now he wants to fight for the title at the White House.

And Dana shit.

And Dana is like, nope, I can't trust John to not fuck something up, which is wild.

Yeah.

But also,

what are you going to say when John just recently got in more trouble?

I mean, it's...

It's tough.

I mean,

for Dana, you know, in his position,

it's too risky.

It is.

It's very risky.

Oh, yeah.

And it sucks because it's like, man, you've got so much talent and the most talent.

And such an incredible resume.

Yeah.

And

there's nothing that I can really do about it.

God, the story is old as time, though, isn't it?

Yeah.

The story is old as time.

Well, that's one of the things I appreciate about you.

Like, you're a very different kind of dude, you know, who's in the same business.

Yeah.

Same wild ass, chaotic business.

But you choose to put your sights on a different prize.

Like you're

about growth.

You're about your own mind and conquering these challenges.

And this is what it's about for you.

Yeah,

I'm grateful and blessed to be in the position that I'm in.

And like, I don't want to, I don't want to waste anything.

You know what I mean?

Like, I don't want to waste it.

I want to be able to look back when I'm older and know that I use my time,

you know, and in

a good way,

that I continue to grow and to learn and develop until it's over you know like I think John does that too

but also he just loves to party he just he gets crazy he just loves to get crazy and I think that like

we've seen that so many times like there's we've seen so many athletes and celebrities fall victim to fame and partying and what that comes with.

We're watching it with Connor.

And we've seen the same people who are addicted to discipline

who you admire.

And what they who do you who are you gonna listen to first thing in the morning?

You're gonna listen to Khabib.

Khabib.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean it's like if there is anybody

as a as a combat sports you know practitioner and fighter, if there's anybody who I would say like I'd want to be or like model myself after in my career, it'd be Muhammad Ali.

just

because of everything you know what I mean like humanitarian yeah like he was beloved by people from all around the world you know what I mean like just different medals from United Nation and like you know what I mean like just a cultural figure cultural figure and like not that like I'm not as outspoken as you know as he was but

For just like the things that he was also remembered for outside of the ring, I just look at that as like so admirable.

And he gave young men like me something to kind of like aim at and like model myself after, you know, like that to me, I feel like is very important, especially in this country.

And as a young man who maybe doesn't have a father figure or who doesn't know what to become.

And then you read the story about Lee and you're like, oh, that's similar to me.

I can become something.

I can be an Olympian.

I can be a champion.

Like, it just takes this.

You know what I mean?

Like,

I'm not different I'm actually there's actually people like like me out there and I like you know it just gives you something to kind of hope to become and so I try to I I try to just be authentically me so that

whoever out there does connect with me can see that you know yeah you can go through certain shit but like

There's so much stuff that is possible for you.

Like your life's not over.

Yeah, you're in a bad position now, but you can get yourself out of it.

There's tons of help out there, you know, mental health is a big thing, you know, it's not the end of the world, you know.

And if you feel like it is, there's support, you know, and if you actually have a disorder, there's support for that, too.

And there's also outlets like martial arts and you know, communities and things like that that will make you feel less alone in life.

And like martial arts is a big one, yeah, you know, that's a big one, and for people that feel outside, yeah, go to a martial arts studio, go to a gym where where you're going to find a whole lot of people just like you that are already on this path.

Yeah, and that are cool people to learn from.

I mean, that's what changed.

That's what I just put myself in a new environment.

And then I started learning how to eat and how to think.

You know what I mean?

And started to get courage and carry myself differently.

And weight started coming down and blah, blah, blah.

And then there you go.

You know,

my mental health stuff was a lot less.

You know, it's never gone away completely, you know, but it's a lot less than it was when I was 19 years old.

But I mean, does it ever go away completely?

No, it doesn't mean it's life.

You know what I mean?

Like it's life, but we don't, a lot of people, we don't have the tools, you know, or we don't have the people to listen to or whatever to be able to be like, okay, it's not just me, it's everyone.

So what can I do to deal with this?

You know what I mean?

Like,

I think that, yeah, that's, that's kind of my, my thing.

So I think about when I get on a microphone or when I go fight or whatever, like there's a sense of responsibility.

It's not just about me in this world, you know?

Like, and that's, it's, to be honest, it's a struggle.

It's hard to not, it's hard to think that way.

It's very easy to be selfish.

It's very easy to just think me, me, me, me, me, you know, my problems, my struggles, my this.

But like, to, to consider

millions of people and lives and children.

and youth and teenagers that are watching the sport and da da da, like, I have to be conscious of of the things that i do and how i live my life because i don't want to be the guy on the news

you know what i mean like i just don't want to be that guy i'm terrible i'm terrified of prison you know what i mean i'm fucking you know i'm trying to make friends with police officers you know what i mean like yeah i'm like i'm just like i'm just like okay like

trying to do the right thing not only for myself but for my family for my father you know so like there's just a lot of responsibility that comes with with this game and how we live our lives, man.

Well, that's very admirable.

And I'm glad there's people like you out there that do present a very positive role model because I know for a lot of young people, they turn towards really successful people in sports and particularly fighters.

Especially if you are a martial artist yourself and you look at someone who carries themselves a certain way and you admire it and you want to be like that person.

Like,

I aspire to be my own version of what that means to me, what this person means to me, what they represent to me, which is like a championship mindset.

Like someone who's like, there's a lot of people with championship mindset that never become a champion, but they

100% inspire people to live better lives.

Yeah, and that's the journey.

That's the path that I'm on for the rest of my life.

Beautiful.

Yeah.

This is the best way to end the podcast.

Yeah, absolutely.

Listen, brother, I appreciate you very much, and uh, I wish you all the best of luck, and I'm real excited to see this fight with Yuri Prohaska.

Thanks, it should be a banger.

Thanks for having me, my pleasure.

Congratulations on everything, and I look forward to congratulating you again.

Hell yeah, all right,

all right, bye, everybody.

Later,