#2278 - Chase Hughes

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Showing by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day! We're debuting these mugs.
My friend Turkey Merc on Instagram sent me these Cheshire Cat mugs. Isn't that badass? Yeah, that's really good.
I thought it would be good for you because we're talking about mind fucks.

Cheshire Cat's a little bit of a mind fuck.

In the simulation.

Yeah, for sure.

So you were just telling me that you had a brain disease.

And what did you do to fix it?

So I...

What was it, first of all?

It's temporal epilepsy with mesial temporal sclerosis. And when did you develop this? We don't know, but, uh, I started having seizures like a few years ago and everybody in my family knows I'm a neuroscientist.
I'd say with a lowercase n, not a PhD neuroscientist, but, uh,. Yeah.
I had postgrad at Harvard and Duke. But they assumed, you know, Chase has studied all this stuff.
He's going to know if he's having seizures. But these seizures come with amnesia.
So I didn't remember that I was having any of them. And this was like three years ago.
I'd retired from the military and then started having these seizures. So then I found a neurologist, the drug that they gave me, the number one side effect was seizures from this pharmaceutical company.
So I kind of looked around and I found this guy's a functional medicine guy and he got me on a methylene blue to start off and i know mel gibson was on here talking about it and that instantly stopped everything and some other stuff it was a fabric dye right yeah in 1890 how weird and it who the fuck drank it first what is that guy make blue jeans out of that

huh

what do I

what it tastes

like

yeah Who the fuck drank it first? Who's that guy? Make blue jeans out of that? Huh. What would it taste like? Yeah.
What if I drink it every day if it affects my health? It tastes like chewing an aspirin. I'd take it.
Okay. Yeah.
I'd take it every day as well. Yeah, RFK Jr.
told me about it. Yeah, man, it's fantastic.
And so this guy's injecting, in 1890, injects these rats with it and then does an autopsy on these things. And their brain, the brainstem, every single nerve is blue.
So he discovered this methylene blue has an affinity for neuronal tissue. So he says, well, it's sucking into neurons.
What's it doing? So we could talk about if you want to, but how it's working and working in the body. So we started putting it in humans and we found out it's an MAOI, which is just...
Monoamine oxide inhibitor. Yeah.
Yeah. Which helps with depression and anxiety and all kinds of life stress and stuff.
Does it cause side effects if you're taking any drug that you shouldn't take with an MAOI?

There are some studies that have been recalled that said you can't take it with SSRIs because you could develop serotonin syndrome.

Right.

But they did recall the study as far as I'm aware.

And it is so incredible that it acts as an electron donor to mitochondria, especially your neuronal mitochondria. So it helps you produce more ATP, and it helps you get rid of this stuff called reactive oxygen species.
So you have an oxygen molecule that should have two hydrogens on it. And, like, your body's job is to convert stuff into water so you can pee it out.
So if you get an oxygen molecule, it's got four, five, one. It's a reactive oxygen, which we call free radicals.
So methylene blue goes in there and balances a lot of those things out in your brain and your nervous system. So it is a miracle, and it's been proven for 100 years.
It's one of the most well-proven drugs out there. What's the side effects of it? Are there any? Not a bunch.
I would imagine if you're taking an MAOI, there's wild shit going on there. Yeah.
Like if you mix it with anything that has metyramine in it, like aged cheeses, red wine, you're not supposed to mix it. If you're on a high dose though, but you're probably taking one milligram per kilogram and you weigh probably 75 kilograms.
What's that weight? What's 75 kilograms? You're probably 189, 190? Close. Yeah, pretty close.
A little heavier than that. Okay.
And so you take maybe 40 milligrams a day to 80 milligrams a day. And you put it in water? Is that what you do? No, I have these little trokes.
It's like the consistency of a starburst. Oh, okay.
And you just cut them up and they're 40 milligrams each. You obviously got to swallow them really quick or your teeth are going to be blue for an entire day.
Yeah. Yeah, it's a pretty potent dye.
I see it in my pee. Yeah.
Well, I had to change the toilets in my house to black toilets because my kids take it. My wife takes it.
Jesus. Everybody takes it.
But like if you go to a party and you forget to flush, everybody just thinks that there's stuff in there. It's one of those supplements that I take.
I'm like, are you sure? Like every time I take it, I'm like, are you fucking sure? Like I drink it in water. I take a little eyedropper and I squirt it in water and drink it., Gary Brecca told me about it.
I should correct that. He told me to take it with red light therapy.
That's what it was about. Did he tell you why? Why it all works? He probably did, but I probably forgot.
Why does it work for red light therapy? So anything that's blue means that it absorbs red and reflects blue light. So if you're in a red light therapy machine, all your neurons are soaking up way more red light than they otherwise would without methylene.
So it's fantastic. It's like 600x the effectiveness of red light therapy.
Really? I'm making that up, but it is a significant – Sounds good. Yeah.
It's a significant increase. How weird is it to be essentially a brain expert and get a brain disease? It was horrifying because I know where this is going to go.
At the end of the day, your hippocampus, your memory center of your brain is eating itself. And during a seizure, you can lose up to about a million neurons a second.
And the seizures were like a minute and a half long. And they're not like shaking on the floor.
A temporal lobe seizure, you're just kind of like, you're just out. Like you're unconscious.
You seize up like Mitch McConnell. Yeah.
Like you turn into a little zombie, your head falls down. And at the end of the day, I tried so many different things to fix it and stop these seizures.
I was at a point of nine seizures a day. Jesus.
And I was desperate. And you think this is because of the medication that they gave you that caused the seizures? Or is this just a...
I never took it. Oh, okay.
So you had seizures, but the medication... Why would they give you something that has a side effect of seizures?

I don't know.

If you're getting seizures.

And I don't know why they're, I mean, you hear so much about these medical schools getting paid off by companies and stuff that don't really have our best interests at heart.

And I think that methylene blue, you shouldn't have to tell a doctor about methylene blue.

I think everybody should know about it. And you can get it on Amazon.
I get mine from this company called Mitozen. And it's fantastic.
And it's changed my life. I would have been gone by now.
What's the root cause of this disease? Do they know? Do they know what's going on? So there's one, there's two factors. You have a genetic predisposition.
So you have this thing in your genes called the APOE4 allel. Okay.
That's the same thing that causes you to get CTE. Yeah, Alzheimer's.
Yeah. And if you have that – I shouldn't say causes you, but it's one of those ones where if you get hit in the head a lot, it's not a good thing to have.
Right. And then I did 20 years in the military.
So being around explosions and all kinds of gunfire and all that kind of stuff, they said this probably caused some kind of concussive syndrome. Yeah, that's a real issue, right? People think of concussions only as like you getting hit, but it's not.
It's any kind of jolting to your body. My friend Mark Gordon works with a lot of soldiers and people with traumatic brain injuries.
And he says you can get it from jet skiing, which is really crazy. Wow.
Just the bounce? Mm-hmm. Hard bouncing, the jostling.
If you like people who really love jet skiing and do it all the time, they start getting a little bit of CTE. That makes sense.
Our brain is floating. It's neutrally buoyant inside of liquid.
So that makes sense. It's smashing around inside your skull.
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Check it out. So how did you get involved in, I mean, your space is like you wrote this book, Behavior O and you're you've got a lot of stuff online like how to motivate yourself and discipline yourself and that's how I found out about you some of the different videos that I thought were really insightful about how to sort of schedule progress in whatever you're trying to accomplish in your life, how to

set things out?

How'd you get involved in all this kind of stuff?

It's a story.

I mean, I was 19 years old, stationed in Pearl Harbor.

I got turned down by a girl one night and I went home and I typed in how to tell when

girls like you on the internet.

I printed out like a two foot stack of shit just to read through because I didn't want to be rejected again. That's hilarious.
I got into this body language stuff, and then it was just behavior. And the more I could kind of see somebody's insecurities and when somebody was stressed and the little fears that are hiding behind behaviors, like it made them human to me.
So I think I had some social anxiety. and me being able to kind of see behind that mask, I wasn't judging anybody, but it was like, wow, they're, they're messed up too.
So I kind of got addicted to that. And I just rode this line down this behavior path.
And I got obsessed with studying all this behavior. And a friend of mine was killed on USS Cole during the terrorist attack in 2001.
September 11th, the Cole got attacked in the Gulf of Yemen. And I was like reading these intelligence reports afterward that said there's failures on the ground.
We didn't develop assets in the country. We didn't take the actions that we needed to take to get this intelligence.
And I was like, man, they need this behavior stuff. So I got more and more obsessed with it, and I started training people in the government probably around the age of 30 or so.
And that was like just a few years before I retired at 38. And the novelty still hasn't worn off for me.
I'm still obsessed with that field of study. So were you trained to train people? Like how did you go about starting to train people? What was it based on? It was me.
I, the first group of people I trained was a car dealership just to see if I could do it. I said, I'm going to go in there and do it for free.
And then I started training people in the military and these are U.S. Navy and other, other branches.
And I'm training them in like these. I got obsessed with this interrogation stuff and how the brain works.
And I mostly got obsessed with if I'm an intelligence officer, my job is to convince somebody to do something that's not in their best interest. Like I need to convince you to spy for your own country and give us intelligence.
Or if I'm an interrogator, I need to convince you to confess to a crime. So I spent time hanging out with people that do cult recruiting out in California.
There's like official people, like human resources for cult recruiting. Yeah.
What do you mean? Like how do, do cults hire them? No, I think they join the cult and the cult says, oh, this guy's really charismatic.

Or he was, I think half of these dudes were like ex-club promoters.

That makes sense.

They got that vibe, you know, like, what should come by tonight?

Right.

And I spent time in San Bernardino with a couple of people, three or four people, three people, that talked people, women, into doing adult films, like young girls that were 19, 20 years old, just starting college. And I talked and I asked them, what are the methods that you use? What are the steps that you follow? And I've watched several of these interactions and then spent time with interrogators and people who do like timeshare sales and stuff like that, which I don't know if you've ever been at a timeshare sales.
No, I have not. They're hardcore.
So I spent time with all these people, and I wanted to figure out what are the elements that make somebody willing to do something that is maybe not in their best interest. And that transformed everything for me.
And then I said we could use all of this stuff from Manchurian candidates, which we can get into if you want to, to whatever, to help people instead of to do the opposite. So I could use the same technique to help a person instead of get them to confess to a crime because it's just a brain.
I'm not learning about interrogation or cult recruiting or anything. I'm just learning where are these little loopholes in the brain? Does that make sense? Yeah.
So what cults were these people recruiting people for? I can't talk about it. You can't say the name of the cults? I can't say the name.
How many different people did you talk to that were cult recruiters? Six. Six? So there's more than six.
How many cults are there active right now? It was two. There were two cults.
Two cults, six recruiters. Yep.
I call them, I would call them cults. I call a lot of things cults, so throw that word around freely.
Let's do it. And these guys were just, they had that little Bill Clinton energy.
You know what I mean? They just kind of captivated the person they were talking to in this little bubble. They were you they're really interested in you and i heard tom cruise is awesome at that oh yeah i heard when you talk to him you're like the only person in the room yeah and it's just that that's yeah tell me more tell me more tell me about your mom and you get that they all had that quality to them but one of the things that all of them the one trait that I think all of those guys had was they could get you to deviate off of your baseline really quick.
And so if they can get you to curse, that's step one. They get you to say something that's a little bit outside of a social norm, they would all do that as step one.
Every single time. Huh.
So what, like in the cult, how would they do that? What would they try to get you to deviate from? What would they try to get you to do? So in the, their goal was to get you to agree to join the cult. So if I can get you to do something that's outside of your norm, so I use something called elicitation.
So instead of me asking questions, let's say we get into the back of an Uber and I want to ask the Uber driver to complain about his job. Instead of using questions, which are weird, right? So like, I'm like, hey, do you like your job? Right.
That's weird. Weird.
It's like saying, hey, how much do you guys make? You say, hey, I just read this article the other day. It said Uber drivers are the most highest respected people out there,

and they love their job.

They have the highest job satisfaction rating.

That's incredible.

And the guy turns around like, what?

So you bullshitted him.

Right.

So that's called triggering a need to correct the record.

It's one of the methods.

But I very quickly get your brain to associate a mental script of friend mode. Because he doesn't talk about that with other writers.
He bitches about his job to his friends. Right.
So I'm getting your brain to start shifting into this. I'm behaving as if I'm with a friend.
Right. So I start getting that behavior out of a person very quickly.
So we're just activating a script in that person's mind that goes from I'm with a client to I'm with a friend. And that's that first level deviation of behavior right there.
Okay. And once you get the script activated, you can start leading them in other directions.
So the second step usually, and this goes into Manchurian candidate stuff, and if you want to talk about Sirhan Sirhan and all that kind of stuff, we can. Sure.
But to get them to start making a little bit of an identity agreement, are you this type of person? So in reality, if I wanted you to, let's say, join a cult, like, are you the type of person? And I'll just have an A, B question. Okay.
So, you know, in my life I've discovered there's two types of people. There's people that take action when they know something's right, and there's people that wait and wait and wait.
And I'm sure you know people that wait and wait and wait. But I've got you to agree that you're type one.
Okay. Because I said, I'm sure you know people, and even your head nodded.
Right. Right? Right.
So I've got this little agreement of identity. I am a type of person who blank.
Right. So you're influencing a person to sort of go along with whatever narrative you've already created about them.
Right. Yes.
Okay. And the moment you get to identity, then you're guaranteeing that you can predict future behavior.
And this goes really deep. We can get into hypnosis and all that stuff if you want to.
And once I get identity agreement, this is the same thing with politics. You see the exact same thing.
The identity gets hijacked and then I can do anything I want because your identity is involved here. It's not you're agreeing with my ideas.
You're agreeing because that's who you are. Right.
But doesn't the person have to sort of respect you first in order to go along with this sort of social change? They have to have some sort of an appreciation of you. You have to be impressive.
At the very beginning, yes. But the moment your identity is involved, they can lead it further and further and further.
And then, so one of the third steps, there's a million, but there's an experiment, if Jamie could pull it up, called the Lines Experiment with Dr. Solomon Ash.
Lion, like the animal, or L-I-N-E? Line. Lines? Line, L-I-N-E.
So where this guy was at a table kind of like this, but you're a volunteer at an experiment. There's like 15 people in the room.

Everybody else but you is in on the experiment.

You're the only volunteer in the room.

So they show you these lines that are three lines on one page, and they show one page that has one line on it.

So which line on this page is equal to this line over here?

Okay. So obviously, over here on the target line you're gonna pick C.
Right. Right? I mean that's glaringly obvious.
So in this experiment Dr. Ash is doing this conformity experiment.
So these other people in the room are all go before you and everybody in the room one at a time says A, A, A, A, A, A. And it gets around to the person.
And this was almost 100%. 100% of people in the experiment would say A.
And it's right in front of their face. The truth is right in front of their face.
And they would go with the group because because the group did it the group is telling them what to choose but it's not even this episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog we all want to do the best for our dogs but there's a lot of mixed messaging out there especially around dog food take kibble for example you'd have to do a lot of digging to learn that kibble is actually ultra processed. They put the words like premium on their bag next to pictures of real ingredients, but food doesn't end up as burnt down pellets without extreme processing.
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Like the difference is so glaringly obvious. It's kind of amazing.
How did they pre-pick the people that were going to be the test subjects like did they have any specific things they were looking for because i think there's a lot of people that even if you got 13 people to say a they would go what are you guys talking about it's c like was there anything about them that they picked like Were these people people pre-selected for being no no and they ran the experiment do you ever think about yourself in that room what would you do yeah and i worry what do you do you no i think in in reality we everybody that's listening right now would say not me a hundred percent of people would say i wouldn't do that well i think it kind of depends on your station in life yeah you know where you're at when i was young i might have just said a because everybody was saying a yeah you know because i didn't want to be an idiot so that's one of the things they did they replicated the experiment on college campuses whereas people are highly suggestible they're young they're still trying to figure out who they are. And it's a lot more suggestible.
And this is if you think of the way that social media manipulates our brain, it falsifies tribal agreement. And it makes us say A.
Right. So we're willing to ignore everything that we see because we're seeing a tribe say that something else is happening.
Okay.

So it'll override our brain.

And if there's one thing, like if you just, one thing that matters a lot is that our brains are not capable of overcoming this technology.

We don't have a firewall.

And technology has outpaced our brain's ability to adapt to it.

So I can falsify a tribe around you that says, oh, this is all happening right now. And Dr.
Phil, you and I both are friends with Dr. Phil, calls this the tyranny of the fringe, where this fringe pretends to be a group of a million people.
When it's just a small group that gets over a lot of attention, it's really inflated. So it looks like it's more popular than it actually is.
And if your identity is already there, then that automatically makes sense and we'll ignore just basic facts. And it's not about the right or the left.
It's both of those sides have been doing this stuff for a long time. But if I can get you to think that most of your tribal members agree to X, then most people, like 90% of people will say, okay, X is true.
Well, especially with social media, right? Because obviously it'd be about something about something that's a little bit more complex than the size of a line, but you're so easily manipulated because it's not really just people that are responding it's a lot of bots yeah and you're seeing that more and more lately I was watching this video today and somebody pointed out after the video look how many bots have retweeted this video and was astounding so it's like oh there's a narrative that someone's trying to push because of this selectively edited video. Yeah.
Like, wow. Well, you're a dragon believer.
I saw that. I love that so much, man.
That's just the view ladies. They're crazy.
They're the gift that keeps giving. That's that poor lady Joy Reade or not Joy Reade, Joy Behar.
Yeah. Said you believe in dragons.
Yeah. It's hilarious.
And the next day I think I checked your Twitter and it just said Joe Rogan dragon belief. Yeah.
I said I have to change it now. It's perfect.
It's so beautiful. For someone like me, that's like – that's a gift.
And what you were doing is not just – I mean it was funny. It was really funny.
But it helped to shine a light on the absurdity, the absurdity that some of these people will go to to just give people misinformation, like the most obvious misinformation.

Well, not only that, but it was after she was talking about The View being a great source of information because they're a part of ABC News. So they check things, unlike me, who believes in dragons.
So it's like it was so perfect. It's like fucking, did you even watch the video? And then she said she double checked it.
Did you double check that? Like, oh, yeah, I did. I've checked it.
That was wonderful. It made my day.
I was happy all day that day. I was like, what a great day.
It made my day to see you change your Twitter. Well, it's funny when people are so – their approach is so simplistic.
It's so obvious to anyone else that it becomes fun. It doesn't work at all.
Not only does it not slander you. Not only does it not disparage people's opinions of you.
It creates fun. It becomes it doesn't work at all.
Not only does it not slander you Not only does it not disparage people's opinions you it creates fun comedy. Yeah, it creates comedy It's like it's so ridiculous, but this is the problem Not just with bots and social media influence but also with echo chambers right echo chambers that people create where they get a bunch of people that only agree with them and everybody disagrees with them instead of Looking at them and you see that on that show all the time instead of looking at someone else's perspective and going okay So tell me how you came to this conclusion like why do you think this yeah, and like letting them fully expressive instead? Everything is interrupt II everything is shout II I disagree with everything you have said in the audience.
Claps. And they're going to stand up for this or for that.
Instead of having an actual conversation about opinions and ideas and how you formulate them and how your mind works and how you think about things and why you think about things. Instead of that, it's just ideological battles every day.
Exactly. And it's identity instead of ideas.
Yes. Is what it is.
Yeah, it's tribal. It's super.
Well, it's a bunch of people that are afraid to be alone and are afraid to be on the outside. And so whatever the group agrees to, they find some sort of mental gymnastics they can apply to these ideas that make them

relevant.

And it will reverse rationalize a lot of those decisions.

Yeah.

So they're emotionally made and logically rationalized in our head.

But we think that it's a logical decision.

It's so easy to weaponize a human being from a Manchurian candidate to just to getting someone

to like something on Twitter because it makes them feel morally or intellectually superior because they shared it. It also makes them feel like they're a part of a team, which people love.
I mean, we are tribal animals. We do not like to be alone outcast.
We like to be a part of a team, which is why you see audience capture is a big thing that happens to people online. They find people that agree with them and then they sort of lean into it.
Big time. Yeah.
They lean maybe a little too hard. Yeah, a lot of people do.
A lot of people, they kind of lose who they are. And people love to accuse everybody of that.
It's interesting because everyone's kind of aware of it now that it's a thing, which is good. You know, it keeps people on their toes.
But bringing it back to the cults. So they would try to get you to do something and deviate from your normal patterns yeah and then are most of these most cults are like sex cults right like pretty much all of them right they're just started by really sex obsessed dudes like you know what i need a bunch of 20 year olds here.
There's a few cults that have been started by ladies, right?

Very few.

Yeah, a few.

And then there was that Wild Wild Country one, Osho's one, where the lady ran it.

And he was kind of like sort of just this very odd eccentric guru, and she was an assassin.

I didn't know this.

Oh, you didn't watch that?

No.

Netflix documentary?

No.

Oh, it's fantastic.

It's so good.

Because like all cult documentaries, it starts out starts out like oh these people have it nailed it starts out so good they're they're cooking together and laughing and dancing and doing yoga and having a good old time and chanting and it seems like they're having a wonderful time but eventually they take over this town in was it uh oregon is it oregon right i think so um somewhere in the Pacific Northwest, I believe it was Oregon. So they take over this town in – was it Oregon? Is it Oregon, right?

I think so, yeah.

I think so.

Somewhere in the Pacific Northwest.

I believe it was Oregon.

So they take over a town and they actually bus in homeless people so that they can pump up their numbers and vote to take over the town.

Oh, yeah. Essentially what some people were accusing the Biden administration of doing with leaving the borders open for illegals and then allowing them to vote.

Same sort of deal.

So they took over this town and they poisoned a bunch of people. It's like really crazy.
It's a crazy documentary. And then eventually it falls apart.
Isn't that most cults? Like you look at it from the outside, you're like, wow, they're barefoot walking on grass. They're eating natural stuff, organic stuff.

Having a good time.

They sing together.

They're having this good time.

And then they take you into the room.

Yeah.

And they say, you know what, Joe?

You've reached the level.

Aliens live in your butthole.

We got to get them out. Yeah.

Yeah.

Something along those lines.

Something crazy.

A lot of them are sex cults.

If they're not sex cults, they're like money cults or power cults or know or ideological cults which i think progressivism is i think it's an ideological cult and i think that um people uh they enjoy being around people that are very confident that they're correct yeah when someone like if most of us like don what is life all about so many questions and if you come across someone who has all the answers and they're so confident about it, it's very attractive. Yeah.
This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog. We all want to do the best for our dogs, but there's a lot of mixed messaging out there, especially around dog food.
Take kibble, for example. You'd have to do a lot of digging to learn that kibble is actually ultra processed.
They put the words like premium on their bag next to pictures of real ingredients, but food doesn't end up as burnt down pellets without extreme processing. For decades, it was the default dog food, but not anymore.
The farmer's dog is healthy food made with real meat and vegetables by people who care about what goes into your dog's body. The recipes are developed by board-certified nutritionists to be complete and balanced, and their food is made to the same safety standards as human food.
It's lightly cooked to retain vital nutrients, and then it's pre-portioned to suit your dog's needs. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of healthy, freshly made food plus free shipping.

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And I think for people that are asking questions, which may be the type of people that are joining these cults.

They're questioning things in their life. Yeah.
Our brains are naturally attracted to certainty and authority. And we can talk about men.
Authority is what we really probably should talk about. But we're attracted to that.
And our brains, the mammalian part of our brain, will simply follow somebody that is easily followed. Like, what is the clearest signal? It's not the smartest person in the room, not the best idea.
What's the clearest signal that's pointing in a direction that I can follow? And our brains will just default to once we trust that authority figure, we're automatically going to assign good traits to them. We're going to think that they're a good person.
We're a good person because we're aligning with this person just because they were followable. Okay.
So it's a clear message. And so these guys who were recruiting people for cults, were they open with you about this stuff or did you kind of like figure it out by talking to them? I signed a ridiculous nondisclosure agreement with each one of them individually.
The cults have NDAs?DAs? No, no, no. The individuals too.
The main organization did not know I was there. Oh, I see.
I see. And it was mostly they would go around the mall.
They spend time around these shopping mall areas and talk to people. Yeah.
And it was like, it was all kind of very basic at the beginning. So cult indoctrination is a longer process.
It's not like, hey, let me talk to you for five minutes. And you're like, yeah, I'll join your cults and we'll worship aliens and stuff together.
It's a long process. We're like, the deviation escalation continues to increase over time.
And it's the exact same way if you're programming some Manchurian candidate, or if you're a hypnotist and you're seeing a client, you want to get them to deviate from their normal behaviors, right? To fix their behavior. So it's not all bad.
So we can use a lot of those same techniques to help somebody instead of hurt them. That's what I started discovering over the years.
And I've studied how to access every loophole in the human brain. And the fastest way to do that is through novelty and authority, number one.
And there is nothing faster in the human brain. And the fastest way to do that is through novelty and authority, number one.
And

there is nothing faster in the human brain that will give you that kind of access. Novelty and authority.
Like, give me some examples of that. So let's say you and I are living 10,000 years ago, 15,000 years ago.
The average tribe of people It was like 150, 120.

And let's say your job and my job was to go and collect fish in a bag and fish and then kind of bring it back to the tribe at the end of the day. And every day we went to the same spot.
It's a great spot. We walked by this bush, this big ass bush.
And one day we're going back and talking about the fish we got. And you hear a stick snap behind that bush that we haven't heard before.

So it's an unexpected deviation from your mental script of what's going to happen.

Does this make sense so far?

So we're walking by the bush.

The stick snaps.

Now what's generated in that moment is a tremendous amount of focus.

Like there could be a threat.

It could be a rabbit that we can eat.

Right?

So a threat or a value is how our brain responds to something new and something unexpected. Is it a threat? Is it valuable socially or otherwise valuable? So the stick breaks.
We're not thinking about our kids. We're not thinking about how many fish are in the bag.
We're only thinking about this novel new thing that interrupted my brain's script of what I thought was going to happen. Okay.
You with me so far? Yeah. So in our life, when we see something that's unexpected, something that we – I guess we're not expecting.
So we're driving a car, blue lights in your rearview mirror is tremendous amount of novelty, threat, value, right? So our brain says this is how I tie my shoes. This is how I go to work.
This is how I run the cash register at Starbucks. Whatever it is, we develop these apps in our head.
And when something interrupts one of those programs, our brain automatically says this is different. This is not expected.
I need all of my focus down on this one thing. And that's how novelty starts to trigger our brain.
Make sense so far? Yes. And authority is the second piece.
So what would be an example that someone would use as like novelty to get like novelty and authority? If you want to get someone to follow you, like what would be novelty that you would apply? Give me any scenario and I'll tell you. Okay.
You're trying to get someone to join a cult. Yeah.
So the novelty right away is I'm going to approach you and say something or ask you a question that you've never been asked before. And there's no possible way that your brain could have gotten ready for that scenario.
And it could be something ridiculously stupid. It'd be like, hey, did you see these guys fighting outside here last week? Or you're walking up and you say, hey, I'm going to ask you three questions, but you only have 12 seconds to answer.
No one's ever said something like that. Okay.
So you're just getting them out of their comfort zone, getting them into like, whoa, what's going on? Yeah. We're breaking a pattern.
So we're all running on patterns all the time. The moment a pattern is broken, we have tremendous focus.
So focus is the first step to hacking the mammalian brain. Authority is next.
And authority is like, if you look at the Milgram experiment, have you heard of this? Oh my God. Have you, are you, have you gone deep on it? Not really.
I mean, but explain it to people so they know what you're talking about. Jamie, can we bring up a picture of the box? The shocking box from this experiment is just...
Essentially they told people that they had to keep shocking people, and then they did it to the point where they thought the person on the other side was actually dead, and they kept shocking. Yeah.
What year was this? 1962, at Yale University. This is a variation of the experiment, but just go to the third one right there.
So that's Stanley Milgram standing over that machine right there.

So you'll notice on the bottom right, it says danger, severe shock right there.

So you're essentially told you're going to, the guy's on the other side of a drywall wall.

He's in another room, but you can hear him yelling every time you shock.

And every time you're asking him these questions and he gets the answer wrong, he's like a,

he's acting like a dumbass. He's obviously in on the experiment.
But these people think they're shocking this guy. And in real life, man, I had that in airplane mode.
In real life, this guy is just, he's running a script. He's a participant in the experiment.
He's in on it. But as the person's getting shocked, you hear him scream.
You hear him say, I want to get out of here. I don't want to do this anymore.
I have a heart condition. He's banging around.
And then at around 300 bolts, and it goes up to 450 on this machine, 300 volts, no more sound. He stops answering questions.
And these people are sitting there at the machine kind of turning around this guy in the lab lab coat that's running this experiment. And the guy in the lab coat is saying, well, it's important that you continue.
The experiment requires that you continue. And they keep going.
They keep delivering electric shocks to this guy that was screaming before and is now silent. He's not even answering these questions on the test anymore.
Did everybody do it? So before the experiment started, these bunch of psychologists got together and they said, all right, who's going to go all the way through? Who's going to do everything? And they thought 0.4%, something like that. It would have to be a psychopath.
It would have to be somebody that was malicious or wanted to hurt people. And after the experiment was conducted, 67% of people went all the way.

And this is – so what we're really dealing with here is not an experiment.

It's a person being talked into murder in less than an hour.

A regular normal human being talked into murder.

67% of them. 67%.
And 250 volts is enough to kill you would you agree if you have the right amps i don't know but i believe you yeah a hundred percent went to 250 jeez a hundred percent so yeah so that could kill you a hundred percent at least attempted murder yeah and i train sales train sales teams all the time. They're like, oh, we have – it's hard to sell this product or this thing.
And I'm like – I show them this thing. And like where's the sales script these guys use at Yale University? There wasn't a script.
It's not like, oh, let me get the perfect words on the phone for this telemarketing company. Right.
There's no There's no hypnosis. There's no, like, NLP stuff going on where I have to say these little magic words.
And I kind of view that aspect of persuasion like the guys that are obsessed with sales scripts. It's like Harry Potter.
Like, there's no magic words that are going to make someone take action. We take action based on the mammalian brain.
And what was present there at Yale University, if you're the volunteer there, you respond to an ad in the paper you've never responded to before, novelty. At a university you've never been to, at a building you've never been in, with two people you've never met, in a room you've never been in, sitting in front of a machine that's absolutely foreign to you.
It's alien. Every single step of the way was novelty.
And then the guy in the lab coat, they made him like – I think he was 6'7". And he's running the experiment.
And we have this stuff called white coat syndrome where we respond to doctors. And there's even research where people were given diagnoses for things they didn't have.
And they developed the symptoms because a doctor has told them this.

And that's how powerful novelty plus authority is.

There are people talked into murder in under an hour.

And there's no magic recipe to do it.

It's authority and novelty.

And authority has five components if you want to just go into them.

So that's confidence. Obviously, somebody's got to be really confident to be an authority figure.
And this is just a conviction in my belief and a generalized belief in my head that everything's going to be fine. Everything's going to be okay.
Discipline is number two. And discipline, I don't say discipline is part of authority because like if everybody – like when you were younger, you ever like go to a party and like put a really nice suit on and all that stuff and like you're – you had a seven-foot pile of laundry back at home like shit all over your bathroom counter.

Like you were not put together.

I was there.

But like there's a part of our brain that reminds us that we don't have everything together.

So when we go out, we're not – other people aren't saying, oh, this guy is not disciplined. No one's saying that, but they are getting a gut feeling that something's off because there's something disharmonic.
There's something incongruent about our behavior because we know there's a part of our brain that says, you know, I'm faking this right now. I'm not this put together.
So having discipline off camera when nobody's looking makes gut feelings in people. It was one of those things where we have this ancient brain that's judging whether or not everything's congruent.
So confidence, discipline, leadership. And leadership just means if I brought you back a thousand years, could you still – would people still follow you? Like your behavior is confident and certain enough and all of that that people would follow you, not language and all that.
Do you say the right things and do you give people compliments? That's not – what I mean is tribal leadership from the mammalian perspective, not human. So confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude, and enjoyment are the final two.

Gratitude, just not saying like I'm keeping this gratitude journal every day or anything like that.

Just I'm a grateful person.

And I have perspective in

gratitude. So I'm able to zoom out and think of like the larger picture when I'm thinking of

gratitude, not just like, oh, I'm thankful for my health today, but I'm thankful like

we didn't have a nuclear war yesterday. We didn't have all this stuff happen.

And the reason these things are effective is because they produce, having them when nobody's looking produces the precise gut feelings in another person that make them say, that's an authority figure. So when you have authority, you can get away with anything you want.
And I go to these companies. I train companies and people all over in how to increase sales and all that.
And they're all like, well, we have a good script. We've got this piece of paper right here that's really great.
We spent $10 million developing the sales script. I'm like, give the script to somebody out here with social anxiety and have them get on the phone.
They're going to bomb. They'd be the worst freaking salesman out there.
Because the script is meaningless. But everybody puts so much value in these words.
It's who you are first, then what you say. And people just ignore the first part.
I mean if you think of – if I go off on a small rant here, I could tell a question bubbling in your head. No, go ahead.
There's too many times people obsess over symptoms instead of causes. So you go on LinkedIn or whatever, and it says how to be confident.
Here are the 15 ways to be confident. Here's the 12 things that confident people do.
They have great posture. They make good eye contact.
It's a firm handshake. They use your name.
They pat you on the shoulder, all this kind of shit. Those are symptoms of being confident.
It's not confidence. So our culture today is obsessed with symptoms of things.
Let me get symptoms of wealth. I'm going to get this Porsche.
I'm going to get this yacht. I'm going to get this plane, post it all over Instagram and show people that I have these symptoms.
So what we're really looking at is like when I'm trying to, somebody's trying to learn sales, let me teach you the symptoms of what a good salesperson has instead of the cause of what makes them a good salesperson. That makes sense.
So in order for someone to truly be confident, they have to take all those steps to make, do you want some coffee? No, actually, yeah. Okay.
You want it in the crazy cup or a regular one? I'll take the crazy cup. Crazy cup's a little hard to drink out of.
Is it? Yeah. I'll switch.
I don't want to dirty that one up. No, don't worry about it.
So they have to have all those ducks in a row. If they don't, people are going to sense it.
They're going to know. Even if they exhibit all the behavior characteristics of someone who's confident, there's going to be something off.
Because we have some way, some ancient way of detecting bullshit in ourselves. Yeah.
We get those gut feelings. Yeah.
We know when something's off. Someone's a little full of it.
Someone's faking it. Yeah.
And we've, we've all had that experience. Like everything looked right on the surface.
Anybody who's watching it from a distance is like, wow, that guy's really confident. But in your gut, you're like, something's off.
Well, particularly if you have all those bases covered. If you have all those bases covered, I think it makes it far easier to see in other people when they don't.
Yeah. mean if you have confidence that means i'm living in front of my eyes right i'm not just stuck back here the whole time so if you're going to teach people how to be confident essentially you have to teach them how to get their shit together yeah unequivocally like undoubtedly you know undebatably like you have like you have to have your shit together clearly.

Absolutely.

Otherwise, you're not going to really be confident.

You're always – it's always the back of your head.

It's always going to be fucking with you.

Yeah.

And there's five areas of your life that I've identified.

These are not – this is not some self-help program or anything.

But there's five areas of your life that create gut feelings in other people.

And that's your environment, how you handle all these things, your environment, your time, your appearance, your social skills, and your financial life. It's like if I've got unpaid bills, I've got creditors knocking on my door all the time, and then I go out and try to look like I've got my shit together, I'm going to send those signals that something's not right.
To people that are aware, not to people that are willing to join cults. Right.
Correct. That's the problem is that there's not really an operating manual for life or for the human mind.
And we're dealing with these very complicated systems, complicated systems of work and social life and hobbies and all the different things that people do. It's very, very complicated.
And a lot of people are just kind of like stumbling through it, learning along the way, hopefully every time they fuck up. Yeah, yeah.
And a lot of that is, even with these cult recruiters, these people have an unconscious knack to spot suggestible people. So your level of suggestibility is how much will you think a person is an authority figure even if they're faking confidence? That's basically what that is.
Will you accept a suggestion and act on it? And we've got guys like Sirhan Sirhan who killed RFK in San Francisco. This is 60s.
I think it's Los Angeles. I think think it's Los Angeles I think it's Los Angeles because I was at the actual hotel where they did it okay film fear factor there okay see that's true I don't doubt you at all I'm pretty sure pretty sure it's Los Angeles and there's also some debate as to whether or not he did it oh I did a whole video on this on my channel yeah what did I don know enough about it, but I know that there's some people that, you know, obviously, there's some people that think that, like, JFK's driver shot him.
There's some, like, kooky conspiracies. Yeah, Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles shortly after Kennedy had finished.
Yeah. So, that hotel, we filmed Fear Factor there once.
That's the only reason why I know. And we were in the kitchen where Sir Hans-Saron.

It happened in the kitchen. Yeah.
We were in the spot. Oh, man.
This is crazy that we could film this stupid fucking show in a place where a presidential candidate got murdered. Yeah.
Was that the reason they filmed there? I think a lot of stuff filmed in that hotel. I think the hotel had been defunct.
and a lot of, there's like abandoned buildings and things in Los Angeles that they use for filming stuff. Okay.
Because it's a big filming industry. Like they're filmed films and TV shows and stuff there.
It's like a cool environment. And it was like spooky, run down old hotel.
I don't even remember the show, the episode, but I just remember us being in that room going, weird feeling. Yeah.
So the Sirhan Sirhan thing is like that people believe that's part of MKUltra, that he was some sort of mind controlled person. I do.
Yeah. I mean, I may be the number one guy in the country on the mind control stuff.
I think I probably am. And I I definitely believe that was influenced by a guy named Dr.
Joy Lynn West. Jolly West.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And it's not about skill.
It's something like if you're doing something like this, it's not much about skill level. It's can you find a good target that's highly suggestible? And almost you have some basic skills in this.
I give you like three or four days worth of training in how to do covert hypnosis and all of this other stuff and how to create amnesia in a person, so where you can just tell them to forget something and they'll willingly forget it. It's, I could train you in three days how to do something like that.
It's terrifying how our brains do not have a firewall. And the moment that our conscious filter, that filters like, is this information good for me? Should I accept this information? If I can bypass that filter, which is very easy to do, you can kind of just jam in whatever you want into somebody's head.

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So what evidence do we have that Sirhan Sirhan was working with Jolly West? There's not a lot. It's a lot of anecdotal stuff.
But he met with this guy regularly. And I'm not an expert on the case.
I wouldn't consider myself an expert. But he met with this guy at the shooting range on a regular basis.
And this guy would talk to him privately, whisper in his ear in the shooting range. We all know this is from testimony.
And later when he was arrested after the shooting happened, he said, I thought I was at the shooting range. I thought I was shooting at a target, at a paper target.
And he was on record saying this. And he has no memory of that actual event happening.
To this day, he went up for parole I think a year or two ago. And man, all they did was ask him to kind of admit what you did and just say what you did.
And he said, I still have no memory of this event. And he had to stay in prison.
And RFK believes it too. Wow.
And you've had RFK on. Uh-huh.
So Sirhan Sirhan is meeting with this guy. Who is this guy? Nobody really knows.
Nobody fully knows. But the guy was involved and connected to Joylon and they called him Radio Man.
That's the only name that people have used to identify this guy. And he met Sirhan at a range and expressed like we're both interested in shortwave radio stuff and all that kind of ham radio.
And they connected over that initially. And then this guy somehow looped him into the situation he was in.
So the MK Ultra stuff, a lot of it was experimental, right? They didn't necessarily have proof that a lot of what they were trying to do was effective. They knew that they could experiment with LSD on people.
That was Operation Midnight Climax, where they took over the brothels, which is so wild. For people that don't know what this is, they took over brothels, and they essentially had the prostitutes serve these Johns LSD without their knowledge.
And then they observed them through two-way mirrors and filmed them. Yeah.
And filmed how they would act. Yeah.
So the CIA was running whorehouses. I don't even know if they had sex because they probably dosed these guys up with so much acid.
They probably didn't want to. But they observed them and they did it for years.
They also ran the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic, which is wild. And until like I think fairly recently.
And there was a lot of hubbub about it after Tom O'Neill's book Chaos came out. And I think it was right after that they closed the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic.
Yeah. But the CIA was essentially a part of the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic in the 1960s.
And that's where the Manson family came out of. Yeah.
And there's a lot of people. I'm not a researcher on this topic.
I'm a researcher on the techniques. But there's guys like Sidney Gottlieb was crazy.
He was running the CIA. It was called OSS back then, Office of Special Services.
And it was crazy. They called him a cowboy, but they brought in all this LSD.
In Canada, they were running – I think this was – I think it was in Montreal. No, it was in Toronto.
Montauk Institute. Is that right? Yeah.
They were doing things called psychic driving. They would keep people awake and it was like clockwork orange.
And they would hold their eyes open and just play these videos to kind of like entrain them and really just drive their brains. And these were people that checked into the hospital with like postpartum depression.
And they started doing this shit on them. They just started experimenting on them.
Yeah. And I mean, the Canadian government admitted it so much that they paid these people for damages.
So just one woman's case that I can remember, I don't remember her name, but she went in for postpartum, I think. And she did the psychic driving.
When she came out, she had no real memories anymore. She wet herself.
She had to relearn how to walk and communicate socially. She had to relearn how to hold her pee in.
How long was she there for? I think it was like a month and a half. Unbelievable.
I think back then they were trying to find a bunch of different methods of mind control, right? Like there's a very famous video from the 1950s of soldiers in the UK where they dose them up with acid and you see them wandering around the woods laughing and giggling and falling down. And we had just got the videos from the Korean War where the Korean prisoners were making these videos like, I realize now that America is a horrible country.
I renounce everything. I hate America.
These are all the bad things they've done. And the guys in the United States are watching this shit going, holy shit.
They've got some secret technology and we're behind. So it was like a psychological arms race.
They just went berserk on this stuff. So they figured out or they figured that there's some kind of secret chemical or secret technique or recipe that these people are using that we haven't figured out yet.
And it was a madhouse race to figure out what was going on with these prisoners in North Korea. What was going on? What were they doing with the prisoners?

Depriving them of sleep.

It was super basic stuff.

They were depriving them of sleep, treating them really well.

They're using these interrogation techniques that were developed by this German guy named Hans Scharf.

And every interrogation system nowadays that's taught is a derivative of Hans Scharf's work.

And funny enough, he's the most famous interrogator in history. And he was like the first guy that said, hey, what if we're not assholes? What if we're not just total assholes to these people and take them out on walks, maybe give them a sandwich every once in a while.
And the whole time pretend like we, every piece of intelligence they give us, we pretend like we already knew it. And that was kind of his premise, like, let's not be a dick.
And he got famous for that. So everything is based on his work now.
And funny enough, you ever been to Disneyland? Sure. You know the huge mosaic that you walk through? It's a huge, like, tile mosaic thing at the very entrance of Disneyland.
I don't recall it. I probably wasn't paying attention.
Hans Scharf made that. Oh, really? By hand.
Yeah. Whoa.
Weird. How much time did that take? I don't know.
How big is this thing? It's huge. See if you can find it, Jamie.
How big is it? He made it by hand? Yeah. Is he on acid? It had to be.
That thing. Wow.
It left a permanent mark on Disney. A former Nazi interrogator.
Fuck. Like as if Disney doesn't have enough problems with Walt Disney being linked to anti-Semitism.
The fact that they actually have a Nazi artist. If there was a competition where I said, Joe, give me a million dollars if you can figure out what this Nazi interrogator did on the side.
Not a chance I'd come up with that. That's crazy.

And it's almost –

Yeah, it's like a DMT kind of visual going on.

Well, that's just weird in and of itself that he was working with these people.

Like how was Walt Disney connected to that guy?

No idea.

No clue.

That's not good. That doesn't do a lot to quell the rumors.
I know. Yeah.
So I think it was Paperclip. Oh, Operation Paperclip.
So these people that are – is there documentation that shows the effectiveness of certain techniques? Like do we have any of their work? Like the Jolly West, did he publish any things or did he make – like leave behind documents explaining what worked and what didn't work? Yeah, some. But, you know, this guy named – I don't remember his first name.
Church got really pissed off about all the CIA stuff.

The church committee.

Church committee. Yeah.

He said we're going to get it all.

And then the CIA launched a destruction order and said we need to destroy – it was like Enron at the CIA then.

The paper is getting shredded and all this stuff.

And some of the documents survived the destruction order because they were in a dude's attic.

Yeah.

This guy's name – he was a professor in New York at Colgate University.

And his name was Dr. George Estabrooks.

And not many people talk about him.

But he was big into it.

And him and Edgar Hoover had a plan to hypnotize a German submarine captain, split his personality, which is not hard to do, and send him back home and have him torpedo his entire fleet inside of his own harbor. And I have all of those documents.
So these professors and these scientists were working with the CIA while they were developing MKUltra. So they probably thought they were doing it for national security purposes.
Yeah. And so they were probably saying, look, North Korea is doing this.
Germany is doing it. All these countries are doing this.
We need to do this as well. Yeah.
I mean, they were at the bottom of Maslow's Pyramid. You'll do anything.
Right. Our country is going to go down.
Did you read Chaos, the Tom O'Neill book? No. It's about the Manson family, how they did it with the Manson family.
It's essentially, I mean, he lays out a very compelling case for the CIA not only training Manson but supplying him with LSD and then getting him out of jail every time he got caught. And that it was done to change the perception of the anti-war movement like the hippies were peace love and psychedelic music and you know people were dropping out of society and instead the narrative now became no they're murderers and psychopaths and they're going to kill beautiful actresses and people in hollywood so they thought he would be like the vaccine for Timothy Leary and all.
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah. That's a good way to put it.
Yeah. That they took this guy who was a con man and had sort of a proclivity towards, you know, influencing people and being charismatic.
And you ever heard his music? No. I didn't know he did music.
Yeah. I mean's he actually recorded with Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys and I think Brian Wilson and him there was like a real problem because his career didn't take off and like he threatened him he became very like very problematic his relationship with Brian Wilson but you get there's a so can find the song.
You can listen to it a little bit.

The man said, can we play this?

Does someone own this?

How does that work?

That was something I've had.

We hadn't talked.

Guns N' Roses covered one of his songs.

Did you know that?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, we talked about that.

I think we did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But he recorded some songs.

And, you know, they're not that bad.

Is that him singing? Yeah. That's not bad.
It's not bad. Yeah, it's decent.
It's not bad. It's like it's an OK, shitty song from the 60s.
Yeah. You know, it's not something you want to put on your Spotify playlist.
but it's not bad yeah it's decent it's not bad it's like it's an okay shitty song from the 60s yeah you know it's not something you want to put on your spotify playlist but it's not it's not bad it's better than a third of guys that play at the bar yeah yeah it's better than a third of the guys on sixth street in austin texas it's not bad i mean he was a charismatic person right and that's what you need to a cult, and that's what you need to be a good rock star. And a lot of psychedelics.
Yeah. And he apparently wouldn't take them.
He would give them to people and pretend to take them. And then he would use these methods to manipulate them while they were under.
So, like, he's sober, and he's going through this CIA textbook of how to manipulate and control these people. And then he gets these people like Tex Watson and, you know, Squeaky Fromm and all these fucking psychopaths.
And he threw this sort of indoctrination and bringing them into the family. And they're staying with him.
And then he's committing murders and crimes. And he keeps getting out.
He gets arrested and they let him out. And the sheriffs that let him out, they all have the same explanation.
I was told it was above my pay grade, and they just let him out. So the guy's violating parole, and he's getting out, like, multiple times.
My God. I didn't know this.
Yeah, and there's a real compelling case for Jolly West. First of all, there's anecd it jolly jolly west visited him in jail um and they think that that's when it all started wow yeah i don't doubt any of that makes sense because like that's a really successful cult like as far as like uh the historical footprint you know like everybody knows about the manson family i mean like that worked that scared the shit out of everybody It was weird like oh my god, what if your children join the Manson family? Oh my god, my kids are vulnerable What if they want to be peace love and flower children they get wrapped up in the family and That's it just sort of changed the tone in society With people and it was also at the same time when they passed that sweeping Schedule I psychedelics act where they made everything illegal.
It was all around the same time. And art goes to zero.
Yeah, art goes into the toilet. Starts disappearing.
Architecture. A lot of things went south.
Yeah, car design. But the fact that there's real compelling evidence that this was the government and that this was the government's response to this immense cultural change that took place between 1950 and 1960.
And it's not like just guessing. It's like there's real programs that they were involved in that were absolutely doing that kind of work.
100 percent. Yeah.
And that's really crazy to think of. And I – and it gets deeper.
Like there are step-by-step programs they have for creating a Manchurian candidate. Okay.
What's step one? How do you know when you can get a guy to be a Manchurian candidate? Can you do anybody or do you have to get a vulnerable guy? I don't want to say everything. I think some of this could be misused.
Well, I don't know if you know about Grok, but Grok's out there misusing information. So.
All right. Yeah, I'll just put it out there.
He can get anything from that. So like you're a very social guy.
OK. And you've got lines in your forehead here from raising your eyebrows a lot.
There's people that are your age that are not very socially connected to people that have smooth foreheads. Oh, interesting.
So if you're smiling a lot your whole life, you're going to develop these little crow's feet, and you'll do it by the age of 19. If you're a social, happy person, you'll see the crow's feet.
If you're angry all the time, you're going to see this little muscle right here, the glabella. I got that thing.
Yeah, but yours is not that pronounced. But whatever emotion we experience on a very, very regular basis etches itself onto the face as a rule of thumb.
Saying that this is science, it's not. This is my observation.
There's no study that I can send you. But we can see that.
I mean you can see somebody who's lived a super happy life. They have these little smile lines around their eyes.
Somebody who's raising their eyebrows a lot. This is our social – our forehead is a social billboard.
Right. So you're going to see those lines start coming on the face but what if i told you make a skeptical facial expression what would you do if you ask me to be skeptical yeah this is my skeptical face okay so like somebody's trying to feed you something most people will kind of these lower eyelids are going to tighten up i might do that too yeah i might do that so you're like most of the time though i'm like what yeah it's my what bitch face what bitch yeah what if i have somebody who's been who is not skeptical ever in their life they have the smoothest lower eyelids in the world huh so to test this out and this is not this is anecdotal okay but i gave it to five guys who are stage hypnotists they're out of these comedy clubs every night knocking people out and all that stuff and i told them test this theory over the course of five years they all said it's a hundred percent accurate because you know like bring they bring people up and some guy doesn't go all the way in his hands are stuck together he's like all right sir thanks thanks for coming go back to your seat we should explain what we're talking about there's um comedy hypnotists and um if you don't know and if you haven't seen it you would think it's bullshit but uh i was very fortunate when i was 21 when i worked in boston there was a guy who was really good at it he was an actual hypnotist his.
His name was Frank Santos. And he did this show, this comedy hypnotism show.
I think it was every Monday night at Stitch's Comedy Club. And it was insane.
He would have people go on stage. They thought they were having sex with Madonna.
They thought they were in a rowboat. And the rowboat was going to tip over.
They had a dance. You know, they had a dance.
And if they danced the best, they thought they were going to win a million dollars. And and it was weird Yeah, it was weird to watch because and he could tell when someone was under and someone wasn't under and It was weird.
It was weird to watch because he it was I Never believed in that I was like well I guess you have to be a dope like maybe you just have to be a dope and that's the kind of people that he picks He just finds the dumb people but a lot a lot of the people I talked to afterwards, I was like, what happened? And they're like, I don't know. It's just like he's snapping his fingers and next thing you know, I'm fucking dancing.
It was the weirdest thing I've ever experienced in my life. So I'm a hypnotist, certified hypnotist.
And I've learned it just because of my brain obsession. And I didn't believe in it either.
I had zero belief that it was real.

And I went to my first comedy hypnosis show like five years ago.

This guy's name is Rich Guzzi.

And it's real.

Like I saw this.

I'm like, oh, my God.

These people aren't just like performing. No, it's definitely real.

And so if – damn, what were we talking about?

Hypnosis.

Yeah.

We were talking about –

So the suggestible.

Yeah, suggestible people.

Like how do you pick someone to be a Manchurian candidate?

Can you pick anybody?

Yeah.

Or does it have to be a person that has like something off about them?

They would – I don't think they have to have something that's off.

You can pick a totally healthy person that's very highly suggestible. So I have a TV show coming out that's fiction.
Fiction. And the bad guy in the book gets access to some of these techniques and he doesn't know how to – they're not working.
So he goes to these comedy hypnosis shows and he just picks people that were called up on stage. And he wrecks their lives.
Pre-select. Yeah.
So he gets someone else to figure out who's suggesting. Oh, that's smart.
So, and those people are highly suggestible and they're always more open to fun. They're always better.
You know, they live in front of their eyes a lot more. And so suggestibility doesn't mean stupid.
It means that you're just more open to the things that are around you. Right.
And they're typically happier people. More suggestible people are typically happier people.
That's interesting. Because they're just blissfully unaware? Yeah.
I mean it depends on if they're suggestible and addicted to like Instagram, horrifying stuff on Instagram. They're watching it all the time.
Oh. So they can get programmed easily for all these things.
So this guy, George Estabrooks, makes this formula to split the personality of an army officer and they called him Smith. And they're going to split this guy, give his alter ego a bunch of secrets to take across enemy lines and then deliver these secrets that are in his head to this person that's on the other side of this thing.

And in this paper, it's a hypothetical.

It's written as a hypothetical.

So they're going to split this guy with the goal being he gets captured.

Somebody tortures him.

They put a drill in his knee or something.

This other personality won't come out because there's a secret word and an anchor. Like they'll squeeze his arm and say moonlight or something like that and it'll turn this other guy on.
Is that really possible to have like a partition in your brain where you keep other memories? Absolutely. Really? Yeah.
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Talk to qualified candidates tomorrow. It's not a partition.
I mean, there's no physical modification. Of course.
It's happening. But I mean, like a partition.
Like there's something, there's another you in there. Yeah.
And I'll tell you something scary when it comes to multiple personality stuff. If a slightly suggestible, not even high, slightly suggestible person goes to a psychiatrist and let's say I wanted to split somebody.
I could make up a piece of paper that's got 10 questions on it. It's like, do you ever feel like you're at war with yourself? Like one person wants to eat cake and the other one wants to eat broccoli.
That's 100%. That's everybody.
And then the next one is, do you ever feel like you're arguing with yourself about whether or not you should relax or worry about something? That's everybody. But it has a lot of these questions that talked about you having different parts.
And then the psychiatrist takes this exam and he says, you know what? I'm looking at all these numbers and you scored in the 99th percentile from multiple personality disorder. Have you ever felt like you're at war with a part of yourself? That's everybody.
But now he says, like, well, what does that part want? If I could just talk to that part directly.

So now he starts having a conversation with this part. And then he says, well, it's not really nice for us to do that.
Why don't we make a name for this part? They're almost done. That's almost the full creation.
So that's called – they researched this in the 70s. It's called iatrogenic creation of dissociative identities.
So if they wanted to do this and create a Manchurian candidate, there has to be like some proof that this is effective, right? So how would they, before they send someone out to do some assassination or something, how would they know that they got this guy on the program? Well, they tested it with hundreds of people first, and they would all use colors. So like Mrs.
White was a subject or Mrs. Red, whatever.
And they would hypnotize a woman while she's, and then split all this personality stuff and develop that partition. And then with her eyes open in one personality, she witnesses what she thinks is a real bomb getting put into a briefcase with a little timer thing on it, like an old movie dynamite thing that

you'd see in a cartoon or something, like put into a briefcase, zip that thing up, and

she's holding it, and they're telling her it's going to explode, and then they change

her personality to the other one, and she's on heart rate monitors and all this other

stuff, and this is a CIA document they released, And she's called Mrs. White in this document.
There's many, many more. But the other personality's job is to not look in the briefcase because that personality doesn't know what's in it and sit in this waiting room with this briefcase beside you.
Heart rate doesn't go up. And then another time, give somebody what they watch a gun being loaded.
They split the personality and like do some kind of sleight of hand to unload the firearm. And then they're told to like pull this firearm out and go shoot this person in the face.
And when the trigger is given to you, like a guy tapping his pencil or something and they do it. And this is just hypnosis that caused them? They're not using any psychedelic drugs or psychotropic medicine? You don't need it.
Nothing? Yeah. Wow.
It's easier than you think. For some people, right? High authority on one end of the person doing the program and high suggestibility on the other, then your skills don't need to be that good.

You don't need to manufacture suggestibility.

If they say, here's this guy, I need to split this guy, and he's not very suggestible,

then your skills have to be high.

But if I have high suggestibility in the target, high authority in the person doing the programming,

I have ultimate results.

And it's not just this.

If I'm a psychiatrist and I have high authority and I have a highly suggestible client, I can change their life for the better with the exact same things. So it's not just Manchurian stuff.
It's anybody trying to change another person needs that level of authority. And I need to, my goal as a doctor, psychiatrist, coach, whatever, is to raise that person's suggestibility so that my suggestions can change their life.

Will you then let them be aware of what you did and how you did it and what the pathway is?

If I'm helping someone?

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

That's got to be a mind fuck for them.

You know Roy Jones?

Junior?

The boxer?

Yeah.

Of course.

He's a friend of mine.

Oh, I love that dude.

Yeah, me too.

And, man, he's been through a rough year.

I don that dude.

Yeah, me too.

And, man, he's been through a rough year.

I don't know if you've heard or anything.

No.

He's been through a lot this year.

What happened?

He lost his son.

Oh, I didn't know that at all. Yeah, I think he was 21.

Oh, that's terrible.

But Roy called me one day.

I went down there to train Roy at Roy's house.

And he called me one day and he's like, hey, man, can you do this split personality thing on a fighter? And I was like, oh, yeah. And as I'm telling him, yeah, I was like, I've never done this.
I didn't know if I could. But I was like, yeah, I'll get it done.
He's like, I've got this guy going into a fight in two days. It's in Vegas.
Can you fly out and do your work on this guy? So I essentially give him an alter ego. But it's not like created through massive trauma or anything like that.
It's kind of a fabricated. We use a little bit of like a little bit of simulated trauma to make this thing happen.
The dissociation part where I kind of separate from myself. And this guy had like the best fight of his life.
And this alter ego, you can ask Roy. I told him not to get gassed out where you're not going to get gassed out or run out of air.
It's like, you're going to always feel like you're satiated. Even if you're not, you're going to stay up and keep going.
And the second is you're not going to feel any pain and you're going to be pure aggression and strategy and all this roy gave me this list of stuff so this guy this is a young fighter he's like 28 i programmed him it took me for 48 hours total um not with him but like two days over the course of two days i programmed and then he goes up what's the thing where that they take a picture looking at each other whatever that's called yeah so they So they go to do that and his wife is off camera and somehow this being near the opponent turned on this thing. And he just looks over at his wife like just like a glance at his wife.
And she picked their kid up like there was a murderer in their house. And they moved to another hotel temporarily.
She's like, that's not my husband. But we we fix it to where we can turn it on and off anytime.
But it scared her because it's like that little altar part of that guy came on and looked at his wife and she did not recognize. You know, Roy Jones Jr.
had an alter ego. Really? Yeah.
He didn't tell me about it. Call himself RJ.
He had Roy Jones. Oh, yeah.
And then RJ. RJ is when there's real problems.
When RJ's out, you got real problems. Yeah.
And when he fought Montel Griffin, you know, he had his first fight with Montel Griffin. And Montel won by disqualification.
Do you know that fight? No. So something happened.
I think it was a late punch or something happened. He might have been swinging when he went down and he hit him while he's going down or while he was down already.
I don't remember exactly what happened, but I remember it was a disqualification and then Roy Jones was like,'s coming out Wow and then in the second fight it was just an obliteration he just destroyed him quickly yeah and when you would see Roy Jones you know like in his very best he was like first of all he's probably the fastest super middleweight in the history of sport and even light heavyweight. He was so fast.
It didn't even make sense. There's some one twos that he threw that you watch to this day and you swear they're sped up.
Yeah. You're like, no one moves that fast.
He didn't even have a jab. He would throw a left hook off the lead hand.
He did everything different. He fucked everybody up because you didn't know what to do with it.
Yeah, everything was off. It was just different and he can move faster than everybody.
Yeah, but I remember him showing me because I'm ignorant about the fighting world and all that. But he showed me how those punches look from a receiving end.
Those like that one, two and then a couple more after that. It terrifying oh yeah they're horrifying you can't move quick enough you know like you're it's done especially if you don't know what's happening like if your your mind has to your body has to be conditioned to movements like you see a movement you react you know like if he's doing this a punch is coming that way i'm turning this way i'm turning that way if something's coming that way if he throws the left the right is coming behind it i'm ducking under if you don't know what those patterns are and and then even if you do roy would move so fast it would fuck up your whole understanding of distance and timing everything would be off he is yeah he was special it makes so much sense i see in his prime he was like unstoppable he was he was like every fight was an execution he played a fucking full basketball game one day and then defended his title played a basketball game and then after the basketball game running around the court played played well and then defended his title just because he was like he was having fun he was playing with his food yeah he's a machine he was truly he was so good and one of the one of the nicest people uh i've ever met great guy such a great guy great guy great guy and great commentator as well it's very good at boxing commentary but um yeah he had a split personality do you know the mike tyson story no so mike tyson when he was 13 so Mike Tyson had a terrible childhood, you know, Bedford Stuyvesant in Brooklyn.
It was just like horrible neighborhood crime and, you know, in and out of detention centers. He gets adopted when he's 13 by this guy, Customato, who is one of the greatest trainers of all time, but also a hypnotist.
So Customato starts hypnotizing Mike Tyson when he's 13 years old. Oh, my gosh.
And when he talks to him about fighting, he's like, you don't exist. Only the task.
So all of the things like, what? Maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe I'm not.
Maybe I'm this. Maybe I'm that.
Maybe I'm a fraud. You don't exist.
It's only the task, and you are going to be the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. That is such a great— And if Cuss didn't die, he had an unbelievable, spectacular career.
But you can tell the difference when Cuss is gone. He doesn't have that mentor anymore.
He doesn't have that leadership. And eventually it kind of falls apart for him.
He wins the title when Cuss had already been dead, but then defends the title. He was just unstoppable.
He was so much better than everybody else. But slowly but surely up until the Buster Douglas fight, you see this deterioration of his discipline, and he's sort of just resting on his laurels and fear.

Everyone was so terrified of him.

By the time they got into the ring, they were already beaten.

Yeah.

You'd see the look in their eye when he was staring at you.

They'd be like, oh, fuck.

And so if Cuss was still alive, who knows what he would have accomplished?

Who knows?

He probably would have never lost.

If Cuss stayed alive, if Cuss was like slightly younger and was able to make it with him deep into his career who knows yeah but hypnotized him when he was 13 and that's early i mean you're still getting your formative identity and beliefs about the world also you've all of a sudden have love in your life all of a sudden you have respect all of a sudden you have people appreciate you for what you do and so you really like dig into this thing so Jim Jacobs was his manager and Jim Jacobs is also an archivist archivist he he has the greatest archive of boxing films in the world that's what at the time so he's got all the old fighters Stanley Ketchel and Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey.

And so Mike Tyson, when he's not training, is watching the greatest boxers of all time on film, which nobody has access to.

Most boxers, you are as good as the gym you train in.

If you're training in a gym with Tommy Hearns, like, damn, he is so good.

And you learn by being around him and you see what he does and you try to emulate it. But the level of the best guys in the gym, it's always very top down.
The best gyms always have some fucking assassins at the very top. World champions, top of the food chain guys, and everybody else sort of like follows their beat.
And you absorb. Well, Mike Dyson was absorbing from everybody.
He was absorbing fromwis and sugar a robinson he was watching everybody archie moore he was watching all the greats just hours and hours and hours and hours of studying films so it was proximity so it was everything he got proximity and like exposure to all that and nobody else and genetics he was when he was 13 years old he was 190 pounds i had no idea yeah yeah teddy atlas used to take him to what they call smokers smokers are like these amateur sort of unregulated fights and uh they would say how old is he and you'd say 13 like bullshit and you're like how old do you think he is he's like 16 so they put him in with 16 year olds and he knocked them out oh my god he was knocking everybody out he was just a genetic freak on top of being very intelligent but never really applied to anything other than boxing fully absorbed with boxing has a trainer who's one of the greatest trainers of all time trained foyd patterson jose torres i mean custom auto was a legendary world champion trainer and then on top of that he's a hypnotist so he's like deeply involved in the psyche of his fighters and he's a mentor figure to this kid and so you have that combination of things and you have that guy the greatest mike tyson at 79 at the age of 13 that's him at 13 oh my gosh fuck look at the size of his biceps bro look at his biceps look at his fucking right bice him at 13. Oh my gosh.
Fuck. Look at the size of his biceps.
Bro, look at his biceps. Look at his fucking right bicep at 13.
That is insane. I know Muhammad Ali above that is 12 years old and Tyson's 13 and built like a tank.
That is so crazy. He's a monster.
Oh, he was everything was perfect. It was the perfect storm.
Intelligence, genetics, training, proximity.

And he was around great fighters as well.

He was in gyms in the Catskills with some of the best fighters of his era.

Does he credit psychedelics for this transformation that he's made?

He does talk about it.

Yeah, he does talk about it.

I'm sure it had an impact on him, that and marijuana. Both of those things had an impact on him.
I mean, he's got to be, not, I mean, just fighting for that long, your brain's going through so much and you've got to, you've got to, you've got to come back to earth. It's like a dude coming off a five-year deployment or something over the Middle East, like you've got to reestablish yourself back to a normal.

Yes.

And I've heard him just talk about it once where he talked about – I think it was just psilocybin.

But that is – that saved me from a lot of really crazy stuff as well.

But I think he is just a guy who knows – I would be terrified.

Like if I was a cop and pulled him over and he said, go ahead and get back in your car, I'd be like, okay. Yeah.
When I first met him, well, I met him before this, but when he first did the podcast, he was not working out at all and he was smoking weed all day long and he was like silly and peaceful and relaxed. And he said he didn't want to to work out because if he did he would reignite his ego and he didn't want to do that and then the second time i saw him was when he was preparing for the roy jones fight and he had lost like 100 pounds he was shredded and like all his muscles were just fucking big and thick and puffed up and he looked terrifying it was like and jamie and i were like a totally different person.
Wow. From the first episode he did to the second episode, completely different person because he was Mike Tyson again.
He was getting ready to fight again and he was fucking terrifying. And this is Mike Tyson again at 50, right? So imagine what Mike Tyson at 22 was like.
I mean it had to be fucking fucking terrifying I bet he won so many fights just psychologically oh yeah standing across the ring looking at that guy even if I was a good fighter yeah I'm like man yeah everybody was terrified of him you're standing like why am I doing this episode is brought to you by call of duty all right call of duty war fans, it's happening. The moment we've been waiting for, Verdansk is back on April 3rd.
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Uh-huh. Yeah, he had an aura.
And all the greats have auras like that. Roy Jones had that aura in his prime, too, where you knew the fighter that he was facing was fucked.
And it, you know, eventually catches up with you. And it did with Mike with Buster Douglas and then Evander Holyfield and some of the other fights after that.
But, you know, when a fighter has that aura, it takes a very special, confident person to overcome that. And that's why winning a title is so difficult.
It's so difficult to beat a champion. There's the psychological, especially if you've never had a championship fight and you're fighting someone like, you know, Anderson Silva in his prime who had just been dominating his division.

This is your first world title fight.

And you're fighting a guy who's been there, done that eight times, destroyed everybody in his path.

And he's looking at you at the weigh-ins.

He's not even remotely nervous about you. And he's like smiling at you and he thinks he's just going to tear you apart.

Yeah.

And it takes a person of very special psychological – you have to have a fortitude. Your mind has to be so fucking strong to be able to handle that moment because it's not just the physical fight of skills.
It's also the moment. And the moment is overwhelming.
It's so different than everything else. You want to talk about novelty, the novelty of a world title fight.
I mean, just imagine someone backstage at the UFC. There's four fights before you get on.
And you're watching people get knocked out and head kicked. You're in the green room and you're in the locker rooms, rather, and you're warming up.
You're practicing. You're hitting mitts.
And you're thinking, what the fuck am I getting myself into like what am i doing and then you see anderson silva warming up you're like oh jesus christ what am i doing like you have to have a very special mind to be able to overcome that and i think it's one of the reasons why a lot of fighters today are seeking out mental coaches it's's very common. And I first found about it

through my friend Vinny Shorman, who has worked with a lot of MMA fighters and a lot of world championship kickboxers as well and helped a lot of people with that. But there's quite a few different fighters now that utilize mental coaches and some sort of visualization coaching and then where they have very specific goals in terms of how they want to walk out what they want they want to see the whole thing there's guys like john jones would famously like walk out before the fight and he would move around the octagon he would like soak it all up empty empty yeah when no one was there before everything and we would get footage of it sometimes of him just moving around you know he'd move around with his coaches he just wanted to feel the floor under his feet he wanted to see the cage he wanted to get himself in that mindset and you know John is if not the greatest one of the absolute greatest of all time and you know he was meticulous and still is meticulous about his preparation, meticulous about watching tape and footage and understanding who he's fighting, what their moves are, what they do, what their tells, what the mistakes they make, and then visualizing success.
I think the visualization is so powerful. Yeah.
Because he's winning 50, 100 times. He's winning that fight before it starts.
And he's winning it so many times. And just going in the ring, you're programming that mammalian brain with the smells and the sounds and just the feel of everything.
And it's such a great practice to establish for anybody. Yeah.
As many bases as you can cover, right? Like the physical skills of fighting are so difficult to master and you get to a certain level of ability where you do have confidence. You know, you do think you are the man and you could just dominate everybody.
But the problem is when you're facing someone else who's also the man, like he thinks he's the man too. And then you start questioning, maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe what's happened to my opponents is now going to happen to me. Maybe I'm going to get mine now.

Fuck. And you know, the doubts start creeping into your mind.
And unless you have some sort

of a system of how to organize your mind and how to mitigate all this anxiety and stress and how

to think about things and concentrate only on the positive things, only on what you are going to do and not all that bullshit. And I think that's it.
It's about rehearsal. And it's the way that top CEOs do it and everybody is they're rehearsing all of the good things happening in their head all the time.
They have just this general belief that things are going to be great. And the guy that's psyching himself out before a fight, he's, maybe it only takes a second, but he's rehearsing a loss.
He's rehearsing these little bad things happening. And the brain, the mammalian brain, doesn't speak English at all.
So it's saying, okay, this is, like we were preparing for this. I'm going to try to make this happen.
It's the same thing when you're like searching for a car on the internet and you finally go buy it after a month and you see it all over the place. You're telling your brain what to search for and seek out.
It's so true. And that's our reticular formation inside of our brain.
So with these fighters, if I'm rehearsing on purpose, then I'm more likely to win. If I'm rehearsing on accident by worrying, worrying is rehearsal.
And that's one of the things I talked to Roy about with his guys that he trains. If I worry once, that's rehearsal.
That's one rehearsal practice checked off the box. And I got to do one more to cancel that out.
That's mental rehearsal. Rehearsal.
That's interesting. Yeah.
And just you have to also be aware of things that can go wrong if you do drop your hands, can go wrong if you do not move your head off the center line. If there's something that you do that's a mistake, there's real consequences.
So you probably – a little bit of fear is very good for you. Like one of the things that fighters talk about is having flat performances because they came in too confident and then they start getting beat up and they can't shift gears.
Like they can't get to the fear part because the fear is kind of over once you start fighting. Like when I was competing, I was always terrified up until the fight.
But when the fight is happening, you're not scared at all. You're just reacting.
You're moving and you just, I mean, you probably get scared if you're getting hurt if you're getting battered you know and you're you're against the ropes and you're getting fucked up but for the most part you're not scared you're just you're in this zen state you're in this state of just letting your training do the work but the lead up to it the lead up to it is where everybody freaks out that's that's where the real fear comes And it's just mitigating that until you can get in there. And then once you get in there, you're really not scared.
That makes perfect sense. It's the same thing in the military.
Like if you're getting into a gunfight or something, there's fear before and not during. And that's the same thing.
I would imagine there would be fear during as well, though, no? I mean, I don't want to speak for myself. I've talked to a lot of dudes that just kind of everything goes quiet.
It's a mental stillness because we go through a lot of training that gets you ready for a lot of those scenarios. Man, I could show you a video after this.
That will be fun. But they have this program where like they put a black bag over your head and there's a bunch of dudes that are mostly like retired operators, dudes.
And every few minutes, this black bag that you can't see through, and it's not like a plastic bag, it's just like a hood. And you're sitting there just holding your gun and they rip this bag off your head.
There's a circle on the ground. It's like five feet wide and you can't step out of it.
You can't take a knee. Those are the only rules.
And for these, there's a scenario playing out in front of you every time the bag comes off. And these guys are wearing like Arabic style clothes and the Middle Eastern style clothes.
They're blaring crazy music and explosions in your head while the hood is on. The hood gets ripped off.
It's like 40 seconds long. You don't know what to expect.
You have no idea what's going to happen. And these guys, they're wearing little masks and you have simulated ammunition.
Some will try to kill you. Some might run up to you really fast and ask for directions.
And you never know what's going to happen. And for these dudes to go down, they're all going to try to shoot you first.
If they shoot you first, you start the day over. And it's like 11 hours.
It's a grueling process. Huh.
So they keep – This is – what is the purpose of this? Like what are they trying to achieve? There's a few things. Your aim, like I need to get better at target acquisition.
So like I do something here and I know something over here and I'm going to rotate over to this next thing that I have to deal with. And after days and days and days of this, you get very good.
Like it's nowhere near that level, but you walk out of there feeling like, I'm John'm John Wick now. But they get you to a level.
And the instructors don't go down unless you hit them twice in the base of the nose. So like you can shoot them in the chest and they'll slow down or they'll take a knee.
But what happened? My headphones stopped working. Really? Yeah, They're good now.
Okay. So they'll slow down, but you hit them twice in the base of the nose and they go down.
They'll drop. And that's like the brain stem.
You have to sever the brain stem. And it's days and days and days of this.
And you can't step out of the circle. What is the simulated ammunition? What are they using? It's a real bullet inside of a real gun.

So it's like the Beretta I deployed with.

But you take the barrel out and you put in this smaller barrel.

And it's a real bullet, but the tip of it's like wax.

And it's filled with like hot pink laundry detergent, essentially.

Like a little paintball, but it's inside of a bullet.

Inside of a real bullet. You're going to have a problem with that fucking watch.
I know. It's on airplane mode.
I had one of those once. I wore it for one day, and it was buzzing during a podcast.
I was like, all right, fuck this thing. Now it's going to go off over there, and you're going to have to reach for it.
So these are the bullets that they use? Paintball training bullets.

And so –

Look at that, Joe.

Yeah, airplane mode.

Maybe it's someone important calling you.

Isn't there like people on your list?

Nope.

No?

Yeah, that's it.

So those things, they just splatter on your face?

Is that what it is?

Yeah.

I mean the guys are wearing masks and stuff like that.

Right.

But if it hits that area, then you go down.

Yeah.

Or you're done.

And then it's a lot of critical judgment and decision making.

There might be a guy that walks up to you and he's holding an axe over his shoulder, but it's just like a farmer.

Because maybe the younger guys are like, oh, there's a dude.

There's a weapon.

He needs to die.

Right.

But he has no intent. Right? So you can't just shoot people because they have a weapon over there.
So it's a really good training for judgment and just that fast decision making. OK.
And so this is just to sort of condition them so that when a battle takes place, it'll be sort of automatic to fall into these patterns that they've learned. Yeah.
And they may say this in other parts of the world, but they say you're going to default to the lowest level of your training. The lowest level that you've repeated thousands of times.
Right. And that'll be your default.
So it's interesting that you worked with one fighter. Have you worked with any fighters since then?

Two other guys I've worked with just through Roy. I mostly work with CEOs that need a break from a bunch of limiting crap that's holding them back or business people.

But two other fighters that I've worked with.

And you can watch this guy's fight.

He's not gassed out.

He's sitting in the corner and the other guy is just heaving and his chest is still.

And you can see the announcers even say it in the fight that he's not making any facial expressions. Man, I can't remember.
Hold on. I'll find it.
OK. But it's on YouTube.
The fight is on YouTube. I'll bring it up.
Bryant Perella. Bryant Perella is his name name jamie will find it and the announcers are even saying he's not making facial expressions when he's getting hit it's like terminator his face was just completely straight there's a guy that uh was one of the greatest heavyweights of all time out of russia his name is fedor milionenko and he fought in pride which was this enormous organization in Japan in the early 2000s.
And he was famous for having a completely stoic expression no matter what happened. That'd be terrifying to me.
Oh, he was the most terrifying. Because he was so skillful as well.
But I wonder what they taught him in terms of how to keep your mind in check in the middle of chaos. Because, I mean, he'd be in these fucking wars, and just his facial expression never changed.
There's this famous fight with him and Kevin Randleman. Kevin Randleman was this elite American wrestler, and he suplexes Fedor on his head, like on his neck and on his head, and his expression never changes.
In the middle of getting thrown through the air slammed onto the ground then moments later he catches kevin in an arm bar wow yeah it was crazy just like never change never change his face just calm you know he might be having a cup of coffee at a local cafe i bet it was was what you were talking about earlier. You don't exist.

You don't exist.

And it was what I'm teaching to these fighters and what I'm programming these fighters to

do is essentially the same thing.

You don't exist.

There's another part of you that's going to take over for this entire experience.

And this part of you is more than capable.

So did you talk to Roy about like what fighters experience, like to work on yeah so what did roy tell you roy said that the three most important things are i don't want him to to get gassed out too fast which is like when maybe that's a common term a lot of it yeah a lot of his anxiety adrenaline dump yeah yeah and feeling like you're running out of air. Yeah.
And I want him

to be immune to pain, which is obviously not not completely possible. We can get close like to him

feeling as so confident that the pain doesn't matter. And he wanted him to be completely

hell bent on destroying this other guy. Those are like Roy's three things.
And he said, you add in whatever you want. So I added in some because a couple of those things are symptoms.
So I wanted to figure out what's the root cause of this. Like if I'm just hell-bent on taking this guy out, the root cause of that might be anger and just being extremely mad and angry at somebody.
Generally speaking, they tell you that that's not a good emotion to take inside the ring. Because anger is an emotion and emotions will cause you to, like Yuri Prohaska says, go into another line.
So instead of doing what you should be doing in the flow, you might push things. So you might be a little too aggressive and open yourself up to counters.
You might not be defensively responsible because you're really only thinking about offense, whereas you have to kind of be in the zone of both things at the same time and knowing when to attack and when not to attack. That makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, a lot of people don't think, but then there's fighters that fight angry. And they're very successful.
If you know a guy, I'll do it for you. It'd be interesting.
Anybody you want. Well, there's a lot of UFC fighters probably listening to this right now.
Like, me. I'm sure you'll get people that are interested in it.
Because everyone knows that there's a huge psychological aspect to fighting. Everyone knows that.
No one denies that. No one thinks you could just be skillful and just be, you know, and everyone knows there's a psychological aspect of it that's very, very, very important.
And if you could do something that would strengthen that the same way you do something that strengthens your cardio or strengthens your power, you would think that that would be very beneficial. Huge advantage.
Tiger Woods had an on-call. Did he? Hypnotist.
Yeah. Really? Yeah.
An on-call hypnotist? Yeah. Like a guy that I think traveled with them many, many times.
So he had a regular hypnotist that he saw. And I think it's a tremendous advantage.
And if you can get it to a point, so like I had been training all these CEOs, a couple of politicians that I've worked with that needed this breakthrough of confidence and authority and all this other stuff. So I always had this way to like turn this thing on.
It was like an on switch to activate this little alter ego thing. And for all the fighters, I had to figure out something else because they couldn't use their hands.
Their hands are all gloved up and taped up and all that kind of stuff.

But I figured out with the fighter, like, there was so much.

It was almost like a little psychopath when this thing came on.

And you can see it in Bryant's face on this fight.

You got footage of him, Jamie?

I'm sorry.

I was looking at Tigers.

I got lost into that.

I found the guy. Oh, you found who it was?ay brunza is his name jay brunza's it was when he was younger he also he caddied for him so he was around with him all the time oh tiger woods you're talking about we were talking about roy jones jr's fighter that's like having your corner man your hypnotist that is kind of crazy every time in the corner all right and sleep so he traveled around with him all the time.
Well, I would imagine, look, if you're doing something like golf where there's millions of dollars on the line and that is clearly a very, very much a mental game. Yeah.
There's a lot of thinking and calculating and being in the zone in golf. That totally makes sense.
That would be effective. And it's so different.
It's so similar, though, to fighting where it's a very mental game like can i stay here can i can i be present can i figure out what's going on and keep in mind i know nothing about fighting but right i know a whole lot about the brain and how and how people work you know it's interesting because what you're saying kind of applies to stand-up comedy too because i have we've talked about this a bunch of times in the green room of the club um i think stand-up comedy is hypnosis i think it's kind of a mass hypnosis because i feel hypnotized when someone's really good when someone i'm just as not even as a person who's who does it but as an audience member when someone's really good i'm allowing them to kind of think for me you know i'm i'm going with the way they think about things. When someone's really funny and I really enjoy watching them, I'm in their mind.
They're taking me on a journey. They're like holding my hand and telling me where we're going.
Yeah. And if someone's really good, you let them.
I've never thought about that before, but that's it. You're bypassing your own critical factor where I'm not criticizing this information because it's funny.
Right. I want to hear it.
I want to accept it. That's why jokes work when you know the person doesn't really believe that.
They don't want to – they're saying crazy shit. But you're laughing anyway because you know what they're doing.
They're just taking you on a fun ride. It's like a fun ride through jokes.
And when you're doing it, there's this moment that you want to achieve where you're essentially a passenger. You're not even really the driver.
As the comedian. Yeah.
You're kind of the passenger. And the set sort of takes over and you are just going with where it wants to go and when the subjects come up if you're not completely invested in what that subject is the audience knows you can say the words the right way with the right timing and they won't work there's like something about it but if you're locked in the audience gets locked in with you and it's the difference between someone who can't figure it out and someone who becomes successful it's like realizing that you can't talk about something while you're not thinking about it you have to be thinking about that thing and you have to be invested in it it has to be real to you it to be something you're really interested in.
And then the audience gets interested in it as well. Yeah.
That is so true. Yeah.
It's a form of hypnosis, I think. And the second, I mean, one big part of hypnosis is something called fractionation.
Are you familiar with this? No. So it's, fractionation is where like I would put you into a trance and that would bring you almost all the way out to where your eyes are kind of opening again

and then send you back down again and you go deeper.

So in comedy and in conversations,

you can do this to people where it's like a super fun thing,

then really depressing or scary thing,

fun thing, scary thing.

Scroll through your social media feed.

It's fractionation as well.

But it increases suggestibility.

And one of the only,

one of the best guys I've seen is like Mitch Hedberg could pull people in. Oh, yeah.
Man, he was such an awesome dude when it came to that stuff. You know why he could pull people in, though? It's because people knew what to expect when you went to see Mitch Hedberg.
Mitch Hedberg's struggle was the early days when people didn't know who he was and if you schedule the show badly like say if you have like a an opening act that's high energy and then a middle act the worst is like of a middle act does like singing and songs and stuff and then he's very non-sequitur deadpan one funny line after another absurdities it's all absurd. And sometimes it didn't catch on.
He had to become famous and then people wanted to go see him knowing what they were going to go see. Yeah.
That makes so much sense. Yeah.
Because he's kind of like a Stephen Wright guy. Yes.
Very similar. Non sequiturs and wacky observations.
Yeah. Wow.
I would have never considered that. So people have to have a degree of expectancy.

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Terms and conditions may apply. Like if, like I said, if someone goes on before and it's a rowdy crowd and they're singing and they do some fucking backflips or something crazy and you get used to that person like this big reaction from the audience.
And then you got a guy there with sunglasses on. Someone asked me if I want a frozen banana.
I said no, but I want a regular banana later. So yes.
It's like, what the fuck are you talking about? You have to be a Mitch Hedberg fan or know what he's doing to appreciate that. Yeah.
But once he became famous, then it was awesome because then he was free. So then he could just be himself.
He didn't have to worry about, like they were coming to see him. So then he could just like really like excel.
Yeah. So what I teach, I want to see if you can relate this to comedy somehow.
I teach, you know, we talked about what influences the mammalian brain, focus, authority, tribe, and emotion, those four things. And no language involved whatsoever.
And then the human brain has six things. And it seems like expectancy is one of those things.
So it's focus, openness, connection, suggestibility, compliance, and expectancy. And I think you only need three.
If you get three, you can get compliance from anybody. Like the Milgram experiment, there's no openness, there's no connection, and there's no expectancy.
They don't know what to expect is next. So the Milgram experiment only got three and made people murderers.
Only three. So as a comic, if you're on stage, you have to generate that focus.
You want to create some level of openness with the people in the crowd so they're open to receiving. And suggestibility, I guess, would have to be in there, right? And connection would be a huge one.
Yeah, there's a lot of things going on. But there's so much that goes into planning a show that I never thought about until just when you said that.
Like you have to keep the energy level at the right balance.

You also have to have the right mindset before you go on stage.

Like the worst thing that can happen is before you go on stage, something happens that throws you off.

Like you get a phone call from a loved one.

Like something goes wrong at your house.

Like you're in a car accident.

Like something happens before you go on stage and you're fucked up.

That's a bad one. Yeah.
yeah yeah that happened to me yesterday what happened because maybe you've got the biggest show i think in the world biggest podcast in the world and i for the first time in a year and a half i had seizures yesterday oh my god just yesterday you think it's because of this show the show put you into a seizure i went i forgot to take methy blue for three days. Oh.
And the seizures came back. Wow.
How bad was it? They were like a minute and a half. But one of them, we were on the way to a restaurant, and I was like holding our daughter, who's like 13 months old.
Oh, Jesus. And it was just, but it's not like a crazy seizure.
It's just like your head falls down. But I thought like, yeah, I'm going to have a seizure on Rogan.
Oh, no. Like if it happened, I would beg you to keep it in.
Have there been studies on methylene blue and seizures where are doctors recommending this stuff? Absolutely. I've published papers on it.
So doctors are backing it up. There's tons and tons of studies.
And these are major universities. It's not like Jimbo's College down in Mexico City or something.
These are major universities, neurodegenerative disorders like Parkinson's, myasthenia gravis, ALS, and epileptic disorders. So anybody that's got epilepsy, this is neuroprotective.
And then it's also neurogenerative. It helps you to get to a point where you can make new neurons.
And it helps your

mitochondria so much, your neuron mitochondria. Wow.
And like mitochondria make up 6% of your

body weight. It's like we got a lot.
Really? Yeah. We have a ton.
And they don't have human DNA.

I thought you might like that.

What does mitochondria have?

It's its own DNA.

They think it was like original from bacteria and then formed a relationship with single-celled organisms and then became human or became animals, mammals.

And mitochondria do not share DNA with humans. Whoa.
And they power our cells. It's pretty cool.
And methylene blue helps them. Yes.
There's a whole lot. And the reason red light is effective is because of this chemical called cytochrome C oxidase.
And it's absorbing so much of that red light to where there's photons going down into the mitochondria helping to generate ATP. It is – I'm not like saying click the link down below or anything like that.
It saved my life. Is there anything that people should be worried about with that stuff? Like other than taking SSRIs, is there – what happens if you take too much of it? I'm not a doctor, but taking too much of it can be toxic.
But I mean, taking too much aspirin will do the same thing. So it's hormesis is what they call this, where I'm like, at the right amount, it's helpful.
So that's a hormetic effect. And what's the effective dose again per body weight? My dose, I can't tell anybody what to do um but the dose i take is about one to two milligrams per kilogram per day and then i'll take one day off like once a week maybe sometimes i'll just keep going so if i'm 70 kilograms and i'm taking two milligram or two milligrams per kilogram i'm gonna take 140 milligrams per day all at one time, usually just in the morning.
And it is so cool. I've heard people say that they feel a cognitive benefit from it as well.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
I think it's just generating a lot more energy in your brain because there's ATP just going out everywhere. This sounds like one of those things, though, where we're talking about this.
I'm like, man, one day this is going to bite everybody in the ass. Like this sounds like one of those ones where it's almost too good to be true.
I know. It's backed by 120 years of research.
I was just Googling the weight of them. This is the best I could find.
Okay. It says, due to their tiny size, individual mitochondria weigh an incredibly small amount, particularly negligible, but collectively in the human body, total weight of all mitochondria would be to estimate the range of a few milligrams.
However, the exact rate can be dependent on factors like body mass and cell type. Well, that doesn't sound like 6% of your body.
I don't think that's correct. But that's AI overview.
It can't oh that's right sorry um interesting where did you hear this from a professor of mine so maybe maybe he's dealing with old information might be a few milligrams definitely definitely not i think it's a lot more than that okay but either way it's a part of your body And it's like the most important thing in our bodies is mitochondria.

So we get inflammation and we have all these disorders.

It starts with some kind of dysfunction with mitochondria most of the time, as I understand it.

So the doctor that got me on this mitochondrial health regimen, which is methylene blue plus high-dose melatonin.

And this is like 200 milligrams.

And do you take it during the day?

Oh, yeah. health regimen, which is methylene blue plus high-dose melatonin.
And this is like 200 milligrams.

And do you take during the day?

Oh, no.

Melatonin at night?

Right around sunset where my body's kind of naturally wanting to get some.

I've heard people talk about the side effects of melatonin and that taking exogenous melatonin

might not be the best idea.

Melatonin doesn't have a rebound effect. It doesn't? No.
No? So it doesn't have an effect on your body's ability to produce it either? No. No? No.
So there's no negative side effects? Well, people think there's negative side effects of everything, right? There could be. That's one of the problems with the muddy, murky waters of health and nutrition.
It's hard to know who's correct because there's a bunch of air

quote experts on both sides.

Yeah.

What I'm saying is it's correct for me because it's solving the problem of me.

Like when my daughter was born, my daughter was born Christmas Eve, 2023.

When I was driving my wife to the hospital at that time, I didn't know who she was.

Really? Yeah. So you had seized up? No, I mean— Something was wrong.
My hippocampus was like eating itself at that time. I knew that she was a friend.
I knew that she was important to me. What? You literally didn't know she was your wife? Didn't know she was my wife.
I took selfies with her going into the hospital. She's pregnant, going into labor and delivery.
But I knew that if I could fake it for 10 or 15 minutes when this thing like wears off, because I'd have these like weird phases that my brain went through. If I could fake it for 10 or 15 minutes, then it'll come back to me.
Wow. What a mind fuck.
It's terrifying in that like, you won't like you're losing everything. You lose everything without losing your life well also you're wondering what if this is permanent what if i am like what is that movie memento remember that movie oh yeah the dude had to write everything down on his arms tattoos across his chest because he didn't know what the fuck was going on yeah yeah and he had that polaroid camera that he carried around yeah it's a good movie great movie but Great movie.
But it's scary in that, like, you're not there. It's kind of like an Alzheimer's thing.
Yeah. But it was different in that, like, I spent, with this hippocampal problem, sclerosis, and this temporal epilepsy, I thought my dog was fake.
Fake. Jesus.
Like, I saw somebody, like, planted this animal here, and it's not a real thing. Were you paranoid like someone did this? Not at all.
Were you like, why is this fake dog here? There is paranoia. Like we were, before a temporal lobe seizure happens, there's so much deja vu that it feels like you're going down a roller coaster.
Like you're falling off a building, that kind of pit of your stomach feeling. So you look around and you're like, there's no way that all of this is not set up.
Someone set this up. So there is paranoia there, like right as a seizure starts because everything starts looking like I've seen every single detail right here before.
Someone's setting me up. And then boom, seizure starts.
Jesus. It's horrible, man.
But mine stopped. If I stopped taking methylene, then seizures start.
Now, I'm not saying anybody's got to go to the same website as me. You can get it on Amazon.
It's nice and cheap. Is there anything else that affects it, like your diet, drinking? Is there anything that – Yeah.
If I eat a lot of carbs, definitely. So like a low-carb keto diet is what they recommend for Alzheimer's and all kinds of brain disorders.
Cancer as well. Yeah.
Yeah. It's so helpful for your body.
So I have a low-carb, super low-carb diet and try to remember that methylene blue every day. And I do red light therapy at home.
I have a huge helmet thing that goes down.

It's a red light laser system that's supposed to penetrate your skull and your body like four inches.

So I do that about once a day for about 20 minutes.

Jesus.

It's badass.

It's cool.

It looks like one of those hair dryers from like an old hair salon.

It sounds cool, but I always think like

how much electricity around your brain is a good thing? Because people are telling you not to have earbuds in anymore. Have you had Jack Cruz? Have you heard of him? No.
Yeah, I know he is. I've heard so much of what he said.
I've stopped using... Have you ever heard him break down SV40? Horrifying.
That yeah very interesting i would love virus that's connected to some vaccines i hope someone looks into it yeah i talked to brett weinstein about it and he explained it to me it's crazy like they they used monkey kidney cells yeah as the basis for certain vaccines not knowing that they were going to infect these vaccines with this SV40 and it causes cancer. Awful.
Yeah. And it's just like, I'm not educated on medicine.
So I don't know, is that a common thing? Have they done it with a whole bunch of other stuff? And we're just looking at this one thing. I don't think I'm educated enough on that to know a lot about it.
But hearing Jack describe that was terrifying, just terrifying. And there's so many other things that are coming out just one after the other with this stuff that was going on with the vaccines and all that.
If I can even say that word. Well, you can now that Robert F.
Kennedy Jr. is the head of HHS.
Yeah. It's going to be interesting to see what he uncovers.
Can we do a pee break? Yeah, take a pee break. Okay.
We'll be right back. So what are you saying about what you teach to governments? So we teach the government guys, like psyops guys, a lot.
And we teach them a system called neurocognitive intelligence. It's essentially how do I identify in a population or one person some behavioral patterns.
And if I can identify behavioral patterns, then I can predict future behavior. And if I can predict it, I can influence it to another direction.
And it's pretty easy if you could kind of get these basics down. And the first thing that we teach is this thing called the childhood triangle.
And this is, what did I do around the age of eight for safety, friends, and rewards? So what did I do to feel safe? What did I do to make or keep friends? And what did I do to get some kind of reward? For some kids, a reward was like their parents complimenting them. Some kids, a reward was like water or food, depending on your life, how you were brought up.
But if you look at adult behavior, when you see these patterns of how adults deal with conflict, you're seeing most of the time how they dealt with conflict as a kid, because we're carrying all these childhood patterns into adulthood all the time. It is so common.
So when we have a habit of dealing with conflict, even in a relationship, not even a work thing, we're spotting these little childhood patterns of safety, friends, and rewards almost all the time. And if I can spot that, that's like step one of developing a pretty deep behavior profile of a human being.
Does that make any sense? Yeah, it does. Okay.
And then step two is identify social needs. And this is like, what do we need from other people? And there's six of these.
And this is like significance, acceptance, approval, intelligence, pity, and strength. And, of course, that's not all human needs.
But those are the six that you can spot pretty easily and that you can leverage pretty easily when it's persuasion and influence. If I'm training an intelligence guy to go recruit somebody overseas, right, he's got to be able to spot these things because he's responding what this person needs.
So if I'm in a conversation and somebody says, well, I've been a CEO for 20 years. I managed 9,000 people at this company.
There's a significance statement, right? So we hear these statements in conversation all the time, but we hear them just kind of passively instead of understanding what's being revealed in a conversation. So if I hear a person speak, you'll hear one of those six in almost every conversation.
Even if it's a two-minute conversation with an Uber driver, you're going to hear some of these statements come out. And the acceptance would be like, I need to be part of groups.
I need to be, I'm a member of things. They use a lot of words like, we did this, we did that.
And the approval people are like, well, you know, I'm going on, I've got this thing tomorrow. I got to speak on stage.
I never do a good job. And I need you to tell me like, no, Chase, you're great.
You're going to be okay. You're going to do a great job.
Those are the approval seeking, the intelligence seeking people. We're talking about the universities they went to, the grades that they got there.
They'll display their intellect in all these ways. And pity, pity people is people is pretty obvious like and the way that we deal that the pity person is essentially asking to other people realize how bad i've had it or what i've been through and if i can spot that then i can start recognizing that and making this person see me as their type of person because now i'm not just a person or a friend they're getting neuropeptides from.
So I'm kind of a drug dealer. If I can spot which of these six this person is and these behavioral patterns.
So this is like in the first two minutes of an interaction. You can spot these things.
In the strength and power person, there's one that's leader and one that's like I need to – if I bark loud enough, if I act tough enough, then nobody is going to hurt me. So there's one that's kind of the natural leader and there's one that's like the chihuahua.
Right, the defensive. Yeah.
Yeah. And when you say you work with PSYOPs people, what do you mean by that? I've trained many times, U.S.
Army PSYOPs branch and how to do these. Do they have a name? Is it just called PSYOPs branch? It's just called PSYOPs.
We put up that video. What's that, Jamie? We put up that video the other day.
Which one? That crazy, like, trailer. We ended the podcast with it.
It was, like, on the PSYOP YouTube channel. It's their commercial.
Oh, right. That video is crazy.
It was cool. It was cool.
They're very they're very cool but it's crazy yeah and it's it's like we play that again do they let us play it or they give us shit YouTube has a lot of wanted to go around I would imagine yeah they would want that to go around we're trying to help you fucking brainwash people we're on your side we're America you know whoays is? I know the name. He was the guy who he invented like public brainwashing, large scale brainwashing.
And he was the guy who changed the Department of War to the Department of Defense. He was the guy who invented the Torches of Freedom campaign to get women to smoke Virginia Slims.
He's the guy dyed margar in yellow. Ghost of the Machine is what it is.
Yeah, that's it. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him.
Pretend to be weak that he may grow arrogant. Sun Tzu, the art of war.
I kill Bill. This is such a wild video.
Have you ever wondered? So good. Whoever made this.
Way to go. Unnamed.
Of course. Who's pulling the strings? Who is unnamed? Who did this? If you're looking for purpose in your life, born from the ashes, and this video comes on, this could get you to sign up of a world at war.
Dun, dun, dun. Almost makes me want to sign up now.
You'll find us in the shadows. Right? You to be these guys Sneaking in with the guns, right? At the tip of the spear Marching in an impressive manner A threat rises in the east Oh no The music helps a lot Oh yeah It really does Warfare Look at that Back Mongols.
This is crazy. And then they shift from that to modern military.
Antifa. Scrolling.
All the world's a stage. There is another very important phase of warfare.
It has as its target not the body but the mind of the enemy.

The target

psychological warfare.

Anybody wanting

to be in control of stuff?

Yeah.

This would be just

so like, okay.

Oh, yeah.

I'm going to go be in charge

of everything.

Intoxicating.

Anything we touch

is a weapon.

Ta-ta-ta.

We can deceive. Persuade.
Change. I wonder if they can now with Doge.
I wonder if USA getting crippled will have an impact on that. I bet it will.
Probably. I bet it will.
I don't know if that's good or bad. So these, if you know how to speak to a person and you can get them into an identity agreement early on in that conversation, you can do anything.
And if you just look at Milgram, all they use, so remember we talked about those six things that influence a person? look at that Milgram experiment there's only three if you look at that

the lines experiment, a person guessing which line is the longer or which line matches, there's only a few in there. And you get absolute compliance from that.
So if you can do that and then get somebody to make an identity agreement, like what kind of person are you? So just to put this in practical terms, like I'm training a real estate person one-on-one. They're like, well, how do I get these clients to behave like this at the end? So you get them to agree at the beginning.
And like, so one of these lines would be like, you know, when I first started learning real estate, they told me that I'm only ever going to deal with three types of clients. They're going to be like, the first ones are the doubters.
And these are the people that doubt everything because maybe they had a hard childhood or they got screwed over so many times that they doubt just everything, which leads them to never taking action. The next ones are the delayers.
These people just push everything off in their life and blah, blah, blah. And then we have the deciders.
And these people get all the information that they possibly need and they make a decision. So without me even – if I'm the real estate person, without me even telling you or you agreeing or saying what you are, I've got you to subconsciously or to privately make an agreement in your head that you're probably in category three.
And that's within the first like 10 minutes of meeting somebody. So I've started to compromise identity in just a few minutes.
And if I also know that you have these behavioral patterns and I also know that you seek significance, right before I say that, I might say, you know, Joe, it's obvious you make a tremendous difference around here. I know a lot of these people really look up to you.
And I looked up to my mentor who taught me this stuff, real estate, and he said there's only three types of clients. So now I've got your dopamine levels up.
I've got your neurotransmitter levels up as a little verbal drug dealer to get you kind of addicted to what's going on here. Then I pull you into this identity trap.
That's like 45 seconds where I've got you into – I've got you hooked into identity.

And it's just a small piece, but I've got you hooked in to begin with. And I've got you to agree that you are a certain type of person.
That's the key. Am I the type of person who blank? Did you see a lot of the characteristics of this kind of psyop interaction with the public during the COVID pandemic? In my head, I was going, please don't talk.
Please don't bring your COVID. Because it seems like – I'm going to send this to Jamie because this to me was one of the darkest moments of the propaganda yeah of the uh the whole thing was the the the complete lack of empathy for um the unvaccinated and not just lack of empathy but disdain and contempt contempt yeah but this was in the la times and uh i saved it because i knew we were going to talk today.
And I remember seeing this going, God, to put yourself into a place where you could even write this and then put it in the New York Times, his column, mocking anti-vaxxers COVID death is ghoulish, yes, but may be necessary. I remember when I read that, I remember when I saw that, I I was thinking Jesus Christ this seems like this is so on the nose George Orwell yeah it's so it's such a mind fight no one should ever mock someone's death that's just a citizen that got infected with what now we know was a genetically engineered virus.
Yeah. A gain of function virus from a weapons lab that got out to it.
No one should, no one should mock an innocent person for not trusting the government and not wanting to get vaccinated. That is so crazy to

mock someone's death from a disease where they did nothing wrong. If you want to mock the death of a murderer or a rapist or some horrible criminal, that's a different thing, right? You want to mock Osama bin Laden's death.
We're talking about a different thing. This is crazy.
This is crazy to say this to grandmas and obese people that wind up dying from COVID. It's crazy to put that in the Los Angeles Times.
But that was one of those things. It would let everybody else know this is how they think about you if you don't follow along.
Yeah. And the tribe will get you.
Yeah. Especially that artificially simulated tribe where there's millions of people that are going to be angry with you.

People you don't even know.

And a lot of them are bots.

So the first time I ever went on Dr. Phil, he was a great guy.

He came to my wedding.

He's a close friend now, but I've never met him before.

I'm some ex-military guy.

It's like a tobacco-chewing dude in the military.

And now I'm going on Dr. Phil.

And I'm like, man, what if I – like how do I act?

What do I do if I'm nervous?

And he's like, man, you have a horrible disease.

And this is what Phil said.

Chase, you've got a horrible disease.

You have a need for love from strangers. Whoa.
And that changed me, man. That's some harsh truth.
Yeah. And I think that got me over that.
But if you look at all of this, everything that was going on, what we talked about manipulating the mammalian brain, it's Cesar Millan. It's every step that Cesar Millan does.
Does with dogs. Focus, authority, tribe, and emotion.
Uh-huh. So if I hack your focus using novelty, if you remember, we talked about like something breaks our expectation.
I'm not expecting to see mocking and all that kind of stuff. Mocking anti-vaxxers.
Focus. Authority is just LA Times.
Right. Tribe.
People must agree with this because it's published and it's up there. And then the emotion.
Mocking the deaths might be ghoulish. So make me feel a little bit of emotion.
That helps me feel like a good person maybe. Maybe necessary to be ghoulish.
But might be necessary. So it's focus, authority, tribe, and emotion.
How much of that do you think was engineered? How much of this do you think was planned out, this response? Do you think that someone sat in a room and that people discussed the best ways to get people to comply? Yes. Oh, yes.
I would bet my career because it was executed following textbook protocol. And there are these – I made a YouTube video on my channel of like how to spot psyops and there's like 20 different little things.
You only need one. One thing and you can spot whether or not you're standing in the middle of a psyop.
That one thing is if the opinion that's coming out needs people to be silenced, it's a PSYOP. There are psychological operations in play.
Wow. So if you can't question it, if you're supposed to just go along, it's a PSYOP.
Yeah. And if people have to be silenced or publicly shamed because of their information and they're not telling people the sky is falling.
They're not saying crazy shit. They're just saying basic stuff and they need to be silenced.
That is a psyop. No matter what, you can go back in any time in history during a psyop of our country.
And if people needed to be silenced or shamed publicly, which is like the tribe, right? That's why public speaking is our number one fear for humans. It's not a fear of speaking.
It's a fear of judgment. Right.
So I'm just putting the threat of judgment out there. That is a psyop.
So if people have to be silenced, and there were Harvard doctors kicked off of the Internet or kicked off of Twitter for this stuff. Yeah.
That's Stanford, Stanford, MIT. That's all you need.
The Great Barrington Declaration. People didn't agree with exactly how the government was handling everything and they were silenced.
And they were treated like fringe quacks instead of respected physicians. And it was openly discussed in emails.
That's what's really crazy. They talked about the strategy of silencing these people.
And then you had the actual government itself contacting Twitter trying to get people removed, which is wild. Didn't you have Mark Zuckerberg on? He talked about it.
Yeah. He talked about Facebook doing it, about the FBI contacting them.

It's crazy to believe. But my hope is that people have learned from this past four years and that this is an eye opener.
Yeah. And one thing I could say, like if if you want to know whether or not you have been lied to.

If you can't see anything wrong with the side you agree with and you can't see anything right with the side that you disagree with, you have been manipulated.

Or you're very rigid in the way you look at things, right?

Yeah.

Or I mean this –

You're assuming someone's objective, right?

Because some people are just not objective.

Right.

But that lack of objectivity can come from manipulation a lot. Right.
So I'm deleting your objectivity through psyops. That's what I want to do.
That's what psyops typically aim to do. With some people, again, as you were talking about with suggestibility, some people are more vulnerable to that sort of groupthink.

Yeah.

Way more.

Way more.

Yeah. And that's like if you think of back to that childhood triangle again, friends, safety, and rewards.
What did I do to get friends? I listened to them and I agreed with them. What did I do to feel safe because my dad was a dickhead or an alcoholic or something? I just went along with everything they said.
I'm just going to go along with it. So you may – and I'm not saying that's the recipe for suggestibility.

But that may be the reason someone grows up that way.

That's just how I lived as a child.

Those were my little scripts to survive as a kid, as an innocent little kid.

And there's so many psyops that are happening all the time. Some of them, when you say psyops, a really, really infomercial is a PSYOP.
Right. So what we're talking about is a large scale.
Right. One of the things that I thought was fascinating about the PSYOP of the whole pandemic was that there were people that weren't even benefiting from being a part of it that were working for the psyop.

And you saw people that were, they were making videos mocking people that were unvaccinated or calling. One of my favorite was Keith Olbermann.
You ever see the Keith Olbermann one? No. That guy was a great sportscaster.
I don't know what the fuck happened to him, but he has this one video where he gets vaccinated and shows you his card and tells you that everybody who's not getting the vaccine are scared. Vaccine hesitancy.
You're scared. And he's like yelling, you're scared.
And he's like on his balcony in Manhattan. It's like so out of touch because he obviously lives in this really nice place, beautiful view behind him.
And he's talking about how these people are scared because they're not getting the vaccine. Like scared of what? Like what are you scared of? Is there something to be scared of? Yeah.
You're scared of side effects from a fucking new medicine. Experimental.
There's been so many times in the past where we've seen they launch a new medicine and there's a host of side effects that the fucking pharmaceutical drug companies probably knew about and didn't tell everybody. but you're scared you're scared see if you can find it it's wonderful because it's so kooky you just watch him yelling and screaming it's like this is so ineffective but and this dude this is how everything is like we oh yeah they drugged everybody with lsd oh yeah we gave indians smallpox or we Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we did that for this year and this decade and this decade and this decade and it continued on, but not now.
Not now. We don't do that anymore.
Come on, Chase. Why do we do that now? This is America, Joe.
This is not how we operate today. We are moral.
We are the leaders of the free world. Yeah.
Have you found it? I think this is it, right? Yeah, this is it. Give me some volume.

So he's getting his shot with his stupid mask on.

He's got his shot.

He's got it accomplished.

And it is.

It is time to stop coddling them.

The ones who won't get the damn shot already.

And our first step, you and I, is symbols.

The language we use.

We call these people vaccine hesitant. Vaccine skeptics, anti-vax.
We say they're protesting mandates and passports. They're making a personal choice.
They're waiting for more information. They're making a medical decision.
Bullshit. They're afraid.
They're afraid to get vaccinated. Correct.
Stop feeding their egos about what they're doing.

Stop legitimizing it.

Vaccine hesitant.

They're afraid.

Vaccine skeptics.

They're afraid.

Anti-vax.

They're afraid.

They're protesting mandates in passports.

They're afraid.

The little bit of spittle in his upper lip makes it extra good.

They're waiting for more information. Afraid.
They're making a medical decision to be afraid. The snowflakes are afraid.
Okay, you can stop. We get it.
Oh, my God. We get it.
Isn't it wonderful? Wow. But he's doing this for social credit.
He's doing this to virtue signal. He's doing this to show everybody.
He's holding up his card. I'm compliant.
And he thinks it's going to benefit him somewhere. There's a payoff.
Socially, he feels like he is on the side of the intelligent people who trust the science. Yeah.
I wonder if someone asked him to do the video. I doubt it.
Maybe. Maybe.
Possibly. I know that they definitely did encourage people to post things on social media.
Yeah. So it was encouraged enough to the point where you got a little reward emotionally.
Good job, Keith. But they're leveraging that authority and the tribe.
Yeah. Like I'm not going to – nobody celebrity is going to talk like that on TV unless lots

of people agree.

Yeah.

He's got to have a lot of backing.

Plenty of people agree with him.

But the thing about it is like afraid of what?

Like you're not saying what they're afraid of.

They're afraid of what everyone's experiencing right now, Keith.

Yeah.

Massive side effects.

Yeah.

Look at the amount of people that have myocarditis.

Look at the rises and all of these autoimmune disorders and all these different things

Thank you. keith yeah massive side effects yeah look at the amount of people that have myocarditis look at the the rises and all these autoimmune disorders and all these different things that people neurological conditions that people are dealing with that are vaccine injured i've got a friend of mine that was kicked out of the military uh for not getting it and it broke my heart he was in for 19 years he was about to retire and get pension and all that kind of stuff now the trump administration apparently is going to bring those people back if they want to come back with back pay.
Yes. Is that happening to him? Yes.
That's great. He's going back in.
And he was a commander. That's fucking great.
Well, good for him, first of all, for sticking to his guns. And if he knows anybody that's been injured or died from it, I bet he probably feels pretty good about his decision.
And I tell you what, man, at 19 years, I probably would have done it. I think I would have done it.
Because that's like, that's pay for the rest of your life. And kids are covered with medical insurance.
But by then, you know, people had already known that there were side effects. And I've talked about it before, but my situation was, I was not hesitant at all initially.
The UFC had allocated a bunch of the vaccines for their employees. And we were doing shows during the pandemic.
And we were doing them in Vegas. So they were at this place called the Apex Center, which is a smaller arena.
The UFC had fights in during the pandemic. Everybody had to be tested.
You have to be tested before you get there. You have to be tested at home before you fly.
The whole deal. You get there.
And then once you get there, they told me that they had vaccines for all the employees. So I called the doctor and I said, hey, can I do it while I'm here? I was going to do it the day of the fight.
I thought I was like the flu shot. Like, whatever.
I didn't know. Most people did.
I had no fear of vaccines at all before this point. I had no, I'd never read any books about vaccines.

I thought anybody who was anti-vaxxer was a kook.

Vaccines are the reason why we don't have polio and smallpox and all these different things, right? So they tell me that I would have to come back on Monday. I can't come back on Monday or I'd have to go to the clinic on Monday.
They have to do it there. They can't do it at the arena.
I say I can't but I'll be back in two weeks for the next fights. I'll do it then.
In between the time I was supposed to be there and come back, it gets pulled from the market. So they had the Johnson and Johnson.
It gets pulled for blood clots. Then two people I knew got strokes.
And I was like, what the fuck is going on? Because like so many people were getting vaccinated. And, you know, if you have millions of of people getting vaccinated you're going to have some serious side effects occasionally and i was around quite a few and i started getting really nervous and then when it came back my do i have to take this thing because then they had pulled the johnson johnson they're saying well you still get the fives or the modern i'm like whoa whoa whoa like what's going on here's going on? And then a bunch of people that I knew had it and got over it really quick.
They got COVID. And then my family got it.
And when my family got it, I was like, let me see if I can get it. Because like, I didn't do anything different.
I hugged my kids. I slept with my wife.
Like we hung out together. They were like, you're going to get sick.
Everybody was sick in the house, but me. I was like, hmm.
This is, I had is i had two days where i when i was working out i felt kind of weak maybe that's because of your horse paste could be i wasn't even taking horse paste at the time um i was taking nothing i was just vitamins i was constantly doing vitamins and nutrients i do i've i was doing iv vitamins at the time once a week with nad i was very i'm healthy i work out a lot but it was this narrative that if you are around it, you're definitely going to get it. And I was like, okay, well, that's not true.
Yeah. Because I was fucking around it.
And this was back then when everybody had it in my family. There was no vaccine.
So I was like, okay, let me see what happens. And I didn't get it.
And I was like, they all got over it. And then a bunch of my friends got it jamie got it everybody got over it i was like this is not what everyone's saying everyone's saying it's a death sentence like this is fucking weird this whole thing is weird and then um i eventually got sick because i was touring and i was doing arenas and i was like traveling around and it wasn't that bad it was like one day i felt real sick.
It's like a cold. And then two days later I made that video and CNN turned my face green.
I saw that hitting. It was nuts.
So that to me was fascinating. To be the subject of a psyop was fascinating.
The day that I saw – I was on Twitter or something and I saw someone did a side-by-side original versus aired version

when you were

like greened.

Listen, man,

if I was really sick,

I would tell everybody,

hey, man,

this is for real.

I'm really fucking sick.

Like,

this is really scary

because I'm very healthy.

I very rarely get sick

and I'm fucking real sick.

Like,

do your best.

Get vaccinated.

Do whatever you got to do.

But I was like,

this is weird

because this is not

what everybody said

it was going to be.

This is not

this death sentence.

in three weeks. real sick like do your best get vaccinated do whatever you got to do but i was like this is weird because this is not what everybody said it was going to be this is not this death sentence three days later six days later i'm working out with 100 energy i had no problems at all i did 10 rounds in the bag six days later just to see i was like let's see i feel great like let's see how i feel like endurance wise it It was 100%.
I felt totally normal six days later.

It's like, this is what we shut the fucking world down for and didn't tell anybody to get healthier?

Didn't tell anybody about vitamin D? I was very fortunate that I had a very good doctor who is very into nutrition, very into supplementation.

And he was prescribing me quercetin and zinc.

And you want to be really up on all your vitamin C and D and D3 and make sure that you take it with K2 and magnesium. Like he was on the ball.
So I was on the ball and I was like, okay, why don't we tell people this? And how come everyone's mad at me? Why are you mad at me for getting healthy? This is crazy. It was fascinating to watch that psyop.
That was the thing, to watch it turned on me. Yeah.
You became the medium that they used for the PSYOP. Yeah.
And I can't imagine how that feels. It was weird.
It was weird. But I was also getting a lot of support, too.
It wasn't all people mad at me. There was a lot of people mad at me, but I just stayed off social media.

But there was also a lot of people that were supporting me.

Like, hey, what about, why is he healthy?

Like, why is he okay?

How come, you know, this 54-year-old guy didn't just drop dead like you said everybody was going to?

Yeah.

Why is he making a video three days later?

It feels great.

What the fuck's going on?

I will tell you, man, I have a YouTube video on my channel that is anti-psyops, like how to spot psyops in action. And I copied that video that they made.
I made a very, very similar intro. But the moment that I saw one doctor on YouTube had to not use – this was at the very beginning.
He had to not use that word. He couldn't say certain words on YouTube like vaccine and all this stuff.
I was like 100 percent. This is insane.
Well, all the algorithms were searching for it. So people would spell Vax like V and then they would use like a dash and then an X.
They would do something to try to skirt around the algorithm. Yeah.
And that's the one thing. Is someone credible being suppressed? Is a credible person being suppressed? And then when you see it tenfold, a hundred people, all of these people that are being suppressed, if your idea is good, nobody has to be quiet.
It's- It's going to catch on its own. Also, the counter to that is if your idea is bad, you can't just force it through.
People are going to figure it out eventually. They're going to realize eventually, if you keep calling this stuff horse-paced, veterinary medicine, and people are going to find out, oh, wait a minute.
It actually won the Nobel Prize, the inventor of it, for humans, for use in humans. Actually, it's on the World Health Organization list of essential medicines.
Actually, it's been prescribed billions, not millions, billions of times. Like, what the fuck is going on where you're saying this is horse-paced? 50 plus, 100 years.
It's been around quite a long time, and it has an incredible safety profile, which was the wildest thing about them going all in and calling it horse pace. Because you are doing this at the expense of your credibility for people who just want short-term profits and you're killing your business.
Your business is people want to believe you when you're talking about the news and now they don't. Yeah.
They don't over stupid well you could have just ignored me you didn't have to do that you could have just ignored me yeah it probably would have had very little effect but then my video probably would have had very little effect people probably wouldn't have believed me oh yeah bet he feels like shit and he's lying that would have been fine yeah but instead they went all in and too many people were paying attention to it and by that time too, too many people had already had COVID and gotten over it and going, what the fuck is going on?

And then there was the whole thing where they were saying you had to get vaccinated, even if you had suffered from COVID and recovered, where you had natural immunity that was proven to be seven times stronger. It was a pure psyop.
Yeah. And the big thing there was when I can make fun of Joe Rogan and like I can shame Joe Rogan, if I could do that to you, one of the more popular guys in the country, especially when it comes to media, then I can just make that a trickle down compliance effect.
Yeah. I can get millions of people to comply because if they're going to do that to Rogan, that might happen to me.
Well, I'm sure it worked. I'm sure it worked.
I'm sure a lot of people complied after they saw that. They saw those attacks.
And I met a lot of people that would accuse me of spreading misinformation. I'm like, what did I say? Tell me what I said.
What was misinformation? What was wrong? And they can't even tell you. They didn't even know.
They were just like saying something because you were there. Like they felt like they had to say that.
It was a fascinating time. And what's interesting is coming out of that now, you know, the country coming out of that now, I think people are way more skeptical, way more skeptical believing the media and way more skeptical believing the government, way more skeptical.
i think that was a huge mistake for short-term profits i think they still would have made a ton of money a lot of people are scared they would have taken it anyway they lied about all the fucking studies anyway they they were doing well they but they sacrificed their ability to do this in the future yeah they gave their hand i don't know who said this quote, man, but I think it's the best quote about society. It's like a society that grows is when men, and it's an old quote, but men plant trees whose shade they will never enjoy.
Thinking about the future and not this one little spike in profit. And that's when a society flourishes and when we're doing that kind of stuff.
Well, I think it's essentially a symptom of a system that's been captured, right? It's the media works for them because they support the media financially. You know, Callie Means has talked about this, that the reason why they sponsor so many television shows is not that they want to sell more drugs.
It's to keep those shows from criticizing them. That's terrifying.
It is terrifying. It's terrifying that it's effective and it works and that we're one of only two countries on earth that allows them to advertise pharmaceutical drugs.
Yeah. Because we know that commercials are psyops.
I mean, when you see that lady and she's dancing with her daughter in the field and they're spinning around in circles and now she's happy and everything's great, but you're fucking depressed and you're at home, you're like, oh, I want the music to play. I want to be dancing in the field.
I want to be at the cookout with all the fellas having a good old time. That looks like fun.
I can't do that with my psoriasis. Yeah, I can't do that with whatever I'm on, whatever's wrong with me.
Give me what you got and get me into that commercial. Yeah.
And it's effective. It's very effective.
They've been doing this for a long time and they've got a playbook written by Edward Bernays, of all people, wrote this book. And the book's called Crystallizing Public Opinion.
And you can see it in every one of these operations. And it's a short book.
You can read it in like two hours. Every one of these things follows that playbook of PSYOPs.
Which makes sense why he would change the name of the Department of War to the Department of Defense. Yeah.
Like it's way more palatable.

Yeah.

He's also the reason that Bacon became part of American Breakfast. Well, kudos to him for that because that was a good move.
Yeah. Bacon's pretty solid.
Funny, he was Sigmund Freud's nephew. Whoa.
Yeah. What if they did coke together? The father of propaganda is Sigmund Freud's relative, nephew.
That's crazy. Sigmund Freud helped him raise this guy.
So did you read his book? Oh, yeah. What does it say in there? So essentially it's capturing mass public attention and making the desired outcome about identity, belonging, and being

part of a tribe.

So to give you an example, Virginia Slims hired him to say like, hey, it's just men

that are smoking our cigarettes.

And he's like, yeah, well, women need to smoke.

You want women to smoke?

I'm like, yeah, let's do it.

So he launches this thing called Torches of Freedom.

Are you familiar with this?

Yeah, you were telling me about it. Oh, my God.
Just bring a photo of this if you can, because I'm getting excited about this. Just these people were compromised in such a crazy way.
So he says women are told not to smoke. So he goes against all of this stuff at the beginning.
Women are told not to smoke. Everybody tells you you can't smoke in public.
This is about women's rights. It has nothing to do with cigarettes.
So he organized this massive women's right movement. An ancient prejudice has been removed.
Isn't it? Look at the fucking chain. American intelligence.
Look at that. The chain says American intelligence around the wrist.
Lucky strike cigarettes. That's so weird.
I'm sorry. Yeah, it wasn't just Virginia Slums.
It was big tobacco. Wow.
There's a picture of the Torches of Freedom. Clicking that one with a lady right there by your cursor? Keep a slender figure.
That one. Believe in yourself.
That's an updated meme. I don't know what that is.
Oh, is it? Is it fake? It seems like it. The font's totally different.
Meme font. Don't test one brand alone.
Compare them all. Yeah.
They can't advertise cigarettes anymore, right? Isn't that the rule? Not on TV. I don't know about magazines.
Can they do it in magazines? But I don't know about it. Can they still have...
Remember the Marlboro Man? Didn't he die of cancer? I don't know about his magazines anymore. Remember the Marlboro Man? Yeah.
Fucking everybody wanted to be that dude. Yeah.
He was like the original John Dutton. Denim jacket.
Yeah. Out there on the range, looking all rugged.
I wish I was him. You know? Cigarette ads are restricted in magazines in the United States, but are still present in some magazines.

So, like, federal law limits tobacco advertising in magazines and on billboards.

However, tobacco companies can advertise in magazines that have at least 85% adult readers.

Oh, so porn.

So it's like Playboy, right?

It's mostly adults.

Mostly adults. U.S.
cigarette, Joe. Sorry, you want me to read that? Yeah, what does it say? U.S.
Cigarette Giant starts advertising again in magazines. Millions of young readers.
Oh. 2013.
Oh, that's Britain. Yeah.
So, I mean, do you think advertising should be legal? It's a weird thing, right? I think about sometimes when I read my Spotify ads, which is why I say no to a lot of things that want to advertise. Like some things come across and we're like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, what is that? What is that? Is that real? Is that legit? Is this funky? Is that a good product? Is this anything? This sounds like bullshit.
So I want to make sure, is this something that I would use? Is this something legitimate? Because advertising is kind of creepy. It is.
But it's not if it's cool. Like if you're doing an ad for a Corvette ZR1, I could do an ad for a ZR1.
I'll tell you that fucking thing's this shit. It's amazing.
Like you should know that if you get in one of those things and drive, it be fucking incredible that's real like it's a solid product it's a real thing like i could feel good about that ad because i know that's a real awesome piece of engineering and and technology that they've created yeah but if it's not like if you're trying to convince people some shady shit. Yeah.
It's tricky. And that's the thing.
Like everybody wants to regulate or deregulate things. Like let's make this diet illegal.
But you're not – you can't regulate health any more than you can regulate morality. It's like when they made alcohol illegal.
Everybody just went into – Right. So instead of making – you have to inform the public instead of restrict them.
Like you're not going to regulate morality and good decisions and it just won't happen. You have to get – like we have to stand on freedom and then educate.
Like maybe there needs to be a cigarette warning label on like whatever is put in these dye and stuff like – which I'm not educated on. But all this like chemicals and stuff in the foods may need a label instead of a regulation right so maybe that's that's the ticket i don't think there's a right answer it's like so many of these issues it's there's no right answer about everything i mean did the ads on cigarettes where they show like may cause cancer may cause a little birth did that even put a dent in the amount of people that smoke cigarettes no but it made a it may have, but it made a better informed public.
Like, at least you knew it. Yeah.
You're doing, you're willingly now taking the poison. Right.
Right. And you should be able to, just like you should be able to eat junk food.
Like, when people talk about, like, getting rid of Doritos or making them change the thing, like, hey, hold up. Doritos, as just don't eat them every day stupid you should eat them like knowing this is just mouth pleasure I'm gonna just have some fucking delicious cool ranch Doritos they're not good for you they don't pretend to be good for you you're not supposed to eat it for nutrition dumbass this is like mouth recreation that's what that is yeah it's not really food are you gonna feel like shit afterwards yeah if you eat the whole bag are you gonna get sick well if you eat them every day all day you'll get sick don't do that have them every now and then you're watching a movie open up a bag of doritos what's the big fucking deal not a big deal the only thing that's gonna happen if you make it illegal is they'll just slap a label on it says for external use only but it's just one of those things was like i don't think you should tell people they can't have things that aren't healthy for them because there's a lot of things like cookies and cake and shit it's just not fucking healthy for you are you gonna kill the baking industry like that's dumb that doesn't make any sense to me like you should just know what you're doing you're doing.
You should, and unfortunately, a lot of people don't. A lot of people aren't very educated as far as food.
Give your throat a vacation. Oh, my God.
Smoke a fresh cigarette. Unfiltered camels.
They're fucking, they're the worst. Oh, my God.
Did you see that second paragraph of that? No, what did it say? It said there's a peppery stuff in other tobaccos that stays in your throat. Oh, it's the peppery dust left in tobacco by inefficient cleaning methods that makes you cough.
They're actually advertising the cellophane on the pack. It's keeping it more fresh.
Of course it is, Jamie. The humidor pack.
There's no stale, crumbly, parched tobaccos.

The fine, Turkish, and mild domestic tobaccos of which camels are blended

come to you in prime, factory-fresh condition thanks to the humidor pack.

Read that last sentence.

The last one.

Give your throat a vacation.

Switch to camels for just one day.

Then leave them if you can.

Sounds like Frito-Lays.

Yeah, you can't eat just one. Popsyingles? I mean, that's both of them.
A lot of them, but you can't eat just one. Yeah, they're good.
Don't eat them every day, stupid. But if they take fucking potato chips off the shelf, if they take ruffles off the shelf, I'm going to be pissed, RFK.
Alright? Leave all that garbage up there leave coca-cola up there let them have it you can't regulate good decisions no but you just know what you're doing but if you know what you're doing you take care of yourself it's not bad to have cake every now and then yeah a little bit of cake i completely agree um but there's a lot of value in what you're teaching and what you're explaining to people. And I think if more people understand how psychological manipulation is used, they'll be less vulnerable to it.
And I think one of the things that the first things that we teach people is called the firewall illusion. So, like, if you went to Best Buy today and, like, picked up a laptop and I was like, Joe, you should get the antiviral or whatever software there.
And he's like, no, I don't believe in viruses. I'm immune to it.
That is, that's a problem. So if you believe you can't be persuaded by these things, if you believe that social media can't persuade me.
It doesn't work on me, bro.

You are the suggestible person.

Yeah. Like your brain versus a $1 trillion computer, you're going to lose.

I'm going to lose.

And I can spot all of the things and I'm still going to lose.

What do you think is the biggest impact in terms of social media on the way people think?

Rephrase that.

Like social media obviously is having some sort of psychological manipulation on people.

Yeah.

What do you think the biggest impact it's having on people other than the theft of your time? Tribal confusion. So I get to automatically, I don't have to hack your brain.
I don't have to convince you of anything. All I have to do is tell you a whole shitload of people believe this one thing.
And all that is, it may not get you to keel over right away, but it gets you to say, wow, it's starting to become a pretty popular idea. I'm going to start to entertain, might start entertaining that.
So technology has outpaced our brain's ability to adapt, period. We cannot adapt.
Our brains haven't changed in 200,000 years. If I can trick the mammal part of your brain that doesn't even speak English, not even English.
So all I have to do is get the human part of your brain to translate what I'm seeing, what you're seeing on the phone, into an image in your mammalian brain and think that there is. It's brand new something weird that you haven't seen before.
Does that sound familiar on social media? Sure. Weird, unusual.
Oh, yeah. Novelty generates focus.
Then there's an authority because you're thinking a lot. This thing has 97,000 likes in the last hour or whatever authority.
Tribe. Tribe is there.
It's built into the likes. And then a lot of bots in the comments that agree with it.
Yeah. Chime in.
Yeah. Can't believe he's doing this.
What a narcissist. All that kind of stuff.
I've got a hold. I've put a leash around your mammalian brain.
And people don't realize how fast it happens, how fast that stuff can happen. What do you think? Like if I'm having you on social media for 16 hours a day, which is like I think 11 hours is like a common number for people, kids especially.
If I've got you for 16 hours with advanced algorithms and technology designed to manipulate you specifically, and in 1972 they could talk someone into murder in 45 minutes.

If you just imagine what's possible. And know that governments are utilizing that.
That that's a, it's not just people's opinions and it's not just groups of people that are trying to convince other people to think the way they think. It's actual governments that are involved in trying to manipulate narratives.
Yeah. Yeah.
And if you're thinking it's a left and a right issue, that's also, you may be a victim.

Yeah.

That's a big one.

It's not.

This us versus them shit is nonsense.

Most people aren't even left or right.

Most people just have a conglomeration of opinions that they've sort of accepted as

their own.

Yeah.

And I mean, JFK got killed for saying stuff like that.

Like, it's not left.

It's not right.

Let's bring this together.

Let's end corruption.

All of these plans.

We're going to release all these files, all these documents.

I'm not, you probably, you've had experts on here about that stuff.

Well, I don't know what's going on and we won't know really until these files actually

get released and what's going to be in them.

What the fuck are they, what is it going to say? We did it. When is that going to happen? Do you know? I don't know.
Cash and what's gonna be in them what the fuck are they what is it gonna say we did it when is that gonna happen do you know I don't know cash Patel's in you know so you gonna do it we'll see he apparently wants to I mean I think there's probably a lot of sorting through to figure out what to say and how to say it and what to release I feel like they should just release it all let the internet hounds go at it let them figure out they're the best at it anyway and they're the most psychotic don't They'll be working 16 hours a day until they figure it all and let the internet hounds go at it let them figure out they're the best at it anyway

and they're the most psychotic they'll fucking they'll be working 16 hours a day until they figure it all out yeah you know so let me tell you when it when it comes to all these beliefs formation i'll tell you the formula for hypnosis okay and this and i don't think anybody's ever said this i've never said it out loud not even in my training it's enhanced a level of focus and then micro-compliances.

So like if I'm a – have you seen the street performers that would hypnotize somebody in a bar or like, you know, like to do something silly or maybe they're helping them. So the first step is like if I'm hypnotizing you and it's in a social setting, the first couple of steps are, all right, come over here.
Now stand to the left. Now move your legs just a little bit further.

Now spread them further apart so you have some balance.

All right, just make sure you have some range of motion.

Go ahead and put your arms out.

None of those are meaningful.

Right.

They're all meaningless.

All I'm doing is get you to comply, comply, comply, comply.

And that's just the first like 30 seconds.

I've got you to comply with me 15 times.

We haven't even started the hypnosis thing yet.

And so it's just you're not aware that you're becoming compliant. You just think I'm going through some motions.
It's just hijacking the mammal brain. Yeah.
So it's compliance, compliance, compliance. And then it's just like go ahead and stare over there.
I want you to look at that light up there. I want you to just focus on that light up there and just let everything go.
So it's just a lot of focus, right? And I'll say something like, I can already tell. I've been doing this for 20 years.
You're going to be really good at this and everything's going to be just fine. You'll be able to hear my voice the whole time.
It's not a coma. You'll be able to stand and maintain perfect balance.
You'll be completely okay. Authority.
Yeah. And no matter what happens, you're going to walk out of this a better person.
Everybody's going to respect you more. And I'll frame it as like us hypnotists call the ability to go into hypnosis unconscious intelligence.
But I'll only say that if you're an intelligence person. So if you're a significance driven person, I'll say we call this unconscious power, this ability to go into hypnosis.
So I'll make it about your identity right away. Yeah.
And then there's an increase in dissociation. Like there's one part of you doing this, one part of you doing that.
So that's like the induction where they're saying, oh, all the way down, that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah.
But that's – if you look at social media, the final step of hypnosis is fractionation. Slightly out of trance, back in.
And every time you go back down into that trance, you go deeper. If you put an EEG on someone's head, and I think you've had Dr.
David Spiegel on here before. Or you've at least had Darren Brown.
Yeah, I've had Darren Brown on. They've done studies on this.
Like this fractionation process increases the amount of theta waves that are going on in your brain, which is the theta waves of hypnosis.

So from the ages of 1 to 8, give or take, your brain is in theta like 80 percent of the day. That's why we learn so fast and we can do all that stuff.
So up and down, up and down. And if you go back the next time, for anybody watching this, the next time you start scrolling through social media, I want you to watch how it's going to peak a positive experience for two or three videos in a row, and it's going to start going downhill.
And it's going to go back up, and it's going to go downhill. And every ad that you see, the algorithm doesn't do this on purpose.
The algorithm does it because it's effective. Every time you see an ad, it's going to be at one of those down troughs.
They're not going to spike you up and have you feel good, like with that guy putting on the color glasses that was colorblind, and he can see, and he's crying and all that. They're not going to show you an ad after that.
They'll show you an ad at the bottom. It's every time.
And I don't think that's programmed into the algorithm. I think the algorithm adapted because that is the effective way to do it.
Jesus. Listen, here's your book, Behavior Ops.
This is a fat book, dude. There's a lot going on in here.
It's all indexed. Is this available everywhere? Yeah, Amazon and my website.
What is the website? nci.university.

All right.

Well, thank you, man.

It was very interesting.

Fun conversation.

Appreciate it.

All right.

Bye, everybody.