#2248 - Michael Waddell

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day! What's going on, my man? Joe, good.
Is that Bigfoot on your shirt? That is. It is Bigfoot.
Non-vegan? Yeah! How do they know Bigfoot's not a vegan? See, I don't know. I mean, but I think he's got canines like us, so there's a good chance that he does eat meat.
I think hunters are the number one argument against Bigfoot being real. I've never met a hunter who's seen Bigfoot.
No, and especially some of your guests you've had on and on top of, I mean, even myself. And now you spend a lot of times in some pretty desolate places.
Yeah. And all the trail cameras.
We should have gotten one picture. Yeah.
Trail cameras throw a big monkey wrench at that Bigfoot thing. I agree.
And I'm always still, you know, the conspiracy that I'm still every time I check, especially when you get in those deep, dark places out west and all throughout the country and even the south. I'm thinking maybe just this time.
It would be fun. It would be fun.
But it's just it's's very unlikely do you mean there's only like two jaguars in the united states and they know exactly where they are well that's exactly right yeah i was thinking back and even listening you know like you've had ranella of course cam a lot a lot of my hunting buddies and people i look up to as well remy warren all those guys and you start thinking about the amount of time we in the woods, and we don't even see a mountain lion. You talk about the wolves.
All these wolves are starting to be reintroduced, and you still don't see them a lot of times. They're there.
But then again, you capture them on trail cameras in the middle of the night. But yet Yeti or Sasquatch, only Jack Link's beef jerky has seen him.
I saw him on a Super Bowl commercial. Yeah, they're in a lot of commercials.
They're in movies. I think they used to be real.
I think it used to be a real thing. I mean, they know there's a thing called the Gigantopithecus that lived somewhere around 100,000 years ago that was a bipedal hominid that was 8 to 10 feet tall.
Holy cow. In the orangutan family, I think they believe it was.
That'd be something to get Graham Hancock on.

We need to get him back to find that creature.

He's busy.

He's busy with a lot of other shit.

It's like just trying to sort out the past, trying to sort out human history.

That was some of the most intriguing.

I was dug deep into that and then went, because of hearing him on the podcast,

and went and watched, just finished season two, watched season one soon after I'd seen him here first. It's pretty compelling.
It's pretty amazingly compelling. Yeah.
Well, once you realize, first of all, that there's real physical evidence that something happened around 11,800 years ago, that the Earth was most likely pounded with asteroid debris. And it probably fucked civilization up pretty bad and it can happen again.
Makes complete sense. Yeah.
It's I mean, hearing his perspective on it and how he researched it. And it's from the standpoint there's, you know, as we know, politics and everything gets involved in everything,

you know, and it's just almost like he was a journalistic, really smart, intellectual guy who was intrigued. It's just a good approach to the way he studied it to me that made it even more compelling.
And then the findings he did find, I don't know, I just, I was very intrigued. You know how he really got into it? No.
He got into it researching the Ark of the Covenant. Really?

Yeah, because in Ethiopia, there's a specific church in Ethiopia that has always been rumored to be the place where the Ark of the Covenant is stored. And there's these guarders of this, these people that are guards of this area, and they all develop cataracts.
They all have like radiation poisoning, and they're guarding this one particular area. They won't let anybody look at it.
They won't let anybody talk about it. And Graham got fascinated by this.
And they started doing a deep dive into history and historical accounts of the covenant and the ark and all these bizarre stories that have lasted throughout history. And the real evidence that there was really sophisticated societies that lived thousands and thousands of years ago when we kind of assumed that people were hunters and gatherers.
You know, Egypt is a great example of that. Like whatever they were doing there was fucking insane.
Right. I mean, the structures that they made, still today we look at them and go, what the hell were you guys doing? Like, how was this made? Yeah.
And he believes that society had reached a very, very sophisticated level of technological achievement and then something happened. And now we're living in like a rebuild.
Even though we're very sophisticated, you know, in terms of technology, our technology has gone in a completely different direction than theirs did. And where did ever in his conclusion? In some of that about the covenant did he ever think that it's still there? I think it's still there.
Yeah So some people thought it might have burned up in Jerusalem. I think it was or see if you can find what where that is Jamie It's supposed to be in some church in Ethiopia.
Jamie's already got it I just had watched something on that because I'm intrigued by that kind of stuff. Well, you know, when you really start digging deep into it, it's very fascinating.
This one particular place has been protected for so long. And all these people that have supposedly seen it describe something that's, you know, Trump apparently has like a model of the Ark of the Covenant at Mar-a-Lago.
No way. Yeah, see if you can find that.
Yeah, he's got like a recreation of the Ark of the Covenant in Mar-a-Lago. And that whole covenant was pretty cool based on how, you know, God had said, look, you know, had an intervention saying this is how big it's got to be.
It was built out of a certain wood, inside and out, gold, the handles, everything was there to hold the commandments. But then I saw something to where, I don't know if Jamie and Mike would probably pull it up, but to where some people speculate it could be under the Catholic Church.
I heard that. Like in the Vatican or something? In the Vatican, yeah.
They got a lot of shit in the Vatican. Oh, my goodness.
Have you ever been there? No, I haven't. But I heard you talk about, you went and had the guide and said it was amazing.
It's incredible. They have so much.
They have billions of dollars in art. Like, where'd you guys steal all this from? It's back in the Roman days.
Look at this. This is Trump's replica of the Ark of the Covenant at Mar-a-Lago.
That's just like. Pretty fucking wild.
And it's almost exactly the replica of what it's assumed to have been looked like. Well, I mean, I think that's a recreation based on biblical accounts.
Absolutely. Very strange.
Well, maybe Trump can take us and show it to us, man. That'd be cool.
What did you say, Jamie? I was trying to figure out if, I mean, clearly it was there. It might've just been there temporarily.
It looks like that. This episode is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax.
One thing I've learned from doing this podcast is the value of having real experts around. Whether it's someone breaking down complex science, health, or even philosophy, having the right people makes all the difference.
That's exactly what TurboTax does for your taxes. Because now taxes is matching with a TurboTax live expert for your unique tax situation.
Your expert is backed by cutting edge technology that cross checks millions of data points for absolute accuracy. And while they work on your taxes, you can get real time updates on their progress and get the most money back all while you go about your day, which means less stress for you and the best possible outcome for your return.
It's 2025. It's time to file like it.
Now this is taxes. Intuit TurboTax.
Get an expert now at TurboTax.com. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter.
Sometimes speed is a huge asset, like in the ring or on the field, being quicker than your opponent could be the difference between winning and losing. In the world of business, it could be the difference between finding or missing out on your next great hire.
Luckily, you can speed up the hiring process with ZipRecruiter. Their new Zip Intro feature can help you meet several interested, qualified candidates at once, kind of like speed dating.
And right now, you can try ZipIntro for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. ZipIntro works fast to find the people you need.
You can literally post your job today and start talking to candidates in back-to-back calls tomorrow. It's that fast.
And best of all, this feature does a lot of the legwork for you. It finds you top talent for your role and schedules those calls.
All you need to do is pick a time. Enjoy the benefits of speed hiring with Zip Intro only from Zip Recruiter.
Rated the number one hiring site based on G2. Try Zip Intro for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan.
Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. Zip Intro.
Post jobs today. Talk to qualified candidates tomorrow.
Might be like on display in Israel or something. I don't know.
So it's a replica that travels around.

Is that what it is? Oh, I get you.

Temporarily.

Is that Mar-a-Lago?

I can't find like that it lives there, but there's definitely obviously people with pictures

of it.

Bro, if I had Trump money, I'd have one built.

Oh, why not?

Come on.

I would too.

I would too.

It's a cool thing to have on display.

I mean, I wonder what it was.

I mean, if these guys really are guarding it in Ethiopia, like what is is the radiation from? Like, why do they all get developing cataracts and radiation sickness? And we've all watched Harrison Ford try to find it. Exactly.
Exactly. It's so fun.
It is fun. All that ancient civilization stuff is so fun because it is really kind of a mystery, you know.
And it's fascinating when, and I'm sure you've been hunting before and you found arrowheads. Yes, a lot.
When you find one of those, you're picking up this piece of history. You've got to imagine some Native American was napping this flint on his knee, sitting there, who knows how many thousands of years ago.
They find 3,000, 4,000-year-old arrowheads. And you've just got to go, God, what was life like then, man? Oh, I can only imagine.
And, like, where I'm from in Georgia, and obviously you and I both love archery, but all the arrowheads I find are quartz. So we have very little flint.
And I'm not at all historically sound on understanding everything. I mean, I got friends.
Actually, Jeff Foxworthy is one of those guys. He lives right down the road he is obsessed with indian artifacts and has an amazing collection like goes across the country you know it's hard you can call jeff right now you probably can't get him to austin to come do this podcast but then all you got to do is tell him hey man i just plowed up a field and it rained and we just found two nice flint heads he'd probably be here tomorrow i mean he loves it he's eat up with it there's a dude i know who has a ranch out here and he finds them all the time it's comanche territory where his ranch is in the hill country yeah and he every day go to that guy's page uh whitworth jw whitworth jm whitworth jw whitworth i think it's jw but he's got incredible arrowheads that he he's like just obsessed with finding them on this.
And this ranch apparently was just overrun by the Comanche. It's very fertile and rich and soil is great and a lot of water habitat, a lot of deer.
And so they must have just camped there and lived there for a long time. It's JM, but it's also private.
Oh, it is? Oh, he's private now? That's probably because we blew him up. I think that's when he went private.
Because he didn't used to be private, but that's some of the things that he finds. See, that's amazingly beautiful stuff.
He sent me a couple of them. There's a company I found.
Actually, I was in Illinois at this. It was a beer and deer fest in Illinois.
And I went by this booth. See, that is absolutely gorgeous.
Yeah, Remy said that that was probably used for fishing. Very well could have been.
Because it's so large, you said it's probably used to shoot fish. It seems that a lot of the arrowheads or the ones that was actually attached to shoot with archery were a lot smaller.
Like, you know, some people might argue that I don't know enough about it. Like, is it a spearhead? I found some heads this i found like well that's a spearhead or that's this or that you find somebody like remy or i got a friend named ike rainey who's really big into artifacts and if you find something what you think it is it's kind of like the first time i hunted in africa i thought i'd shot a spring buck or a die i thought i shot a diker and it turned out it was a spring buck it's like

oh okay there's only 7 000 species of animals out here so i think airheads are the same way it's

it's amazing but to think you're right i mean think of somebody sat down thousands and thousands

years and nap that out and how many times did they not get it right you can say that's perfect

yeah they probably had to do a lot of them that a lot of them probably broke off wrong oh yeah

i mean it's probably not a very good success rate especially when you're working with flint

Thank you. That's perfect.
Yeah, they probably had to do a lot of them. A lot of them probably broke off wrong.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, it's probably not a very good success rate, especially when you're working with Flint.

Yeah. And you're chipping away at it.

But when they get good at it, it's such an art.

Yeah.

Like, when you pick one up, like a real Flint Arrowhead guy, there's a lot of guys that make them now, though, unfortunately.

So there's a lot of forgeries.

Correct.

Yeah.

Correct.

A lot of nerds.

A lot of archery nerds. They get real good at it and then just leave them scattered around places or pretend they found exactly you know you could do that just almost yeah you totally could do that but that that's a legit one that was actually pulled out of the ground it makes me less wine when when you know like if you're out in utah and you have success in elk woods and you're butchering an elk and trying to get them packed out when you're just having to resharpen your knives like this at least i can do is resharpen this knife right i mean these guys had to nap out ahead i mean how long did that take just to go hunting elk you know yeah they lived for thousands of years with no metal oh i know it i'll tell you something's interesting we hunted a place in montana where we it was on the milk river and they had what they called a buffalo drop on this property and and so if you went to where this buffalo drop was you could go to the base of it and you could find there's not there wasn't any much left now we used to hunt back in the day uh mostly in the uh i hadn't been since 2000 i think it was seven or 2010 was the last time i had went out there but at the base of that you could find all kind of bones you know bisonison bones you know you know buffalo and stuff but you would sometimes find these little tiny heads uh and and they didn't look like this which is interesting what remy brought up maybe that was for fishing or something i don't know but all the heads we would find would be tiny little almost like bird points is what i felt like i wanted to call them i heard them called before and supposedly what they did was is they didn't necessarily, weren't trying to kill the buffalo.
They would hurt them and they would just kind of pick them with the arrows and then they would run the buffalo off of this cliff. And so it basically died coming off the cliff.
And it was so cool across the valley. You could still see all those stone rings to where supposedly the ladies or the squaws would sit there and look back.
And soon as the men basically had, you know, whatever amount of buffalo, I guess, over the drop, they would come and butcher. And the man would go back and, you know, smoke the peace pipe and relax.
So times have changed a lot. So I thought that was interesting.
You were telling me about this one site where they had a buffalo drop, and the pile of buffalo was so large, and there was so much decay, that it actually created a fire. Holy cow.
It started on fire, because they're all just rotting and fermenting and some sort of combustion. And so the entire side of the cliff was black from these buffalo falling off of this place rotting and then created a fire yeah i mean i don't even know how that would work i don't either but i do know that those buffalo drops do exist and it's pretty fascinating and the place we're hunting is a uh you know private landowner he was a rancher had some cows and um he was very funny He did not want us to video on any of our episodes or anything to do.
And back then we were videoing, I was working with Bill Jordan and we had a show on TNN back in the day. And he's like, do not bring your cameras.
I don't want any TV cameras around here. He said, because they'll come and all of a sudden they'll set this up as a historical site.
So he was really funny about it.

So I didn't even take a lot of pictures of it because I was always like, hey, you know, this guy didn't want us to take any pictures and talk about it. But, man, every time I'd come back, you know, for morning hunt or we'd go scout, I'd come back and like, man, I want to go to Buffalo Drop.
Like, you know, it's like a little kid, like a little 10-year-old kid, Boy Scout. I'm like, look at this.
Here's a head or here's a buffalo horn or skull. And most of everything that would have been there had already been picked through because it's right off kind of a county road and so most of the locals knew about it and of course you know he's had kids and grandkids just kind of rummaged through it but it was pretty interesting but every time you'd go you'd find something so it's really interesting it just just really stretches your mind and your imagination to imagine living like that back then.

And that these people, while, you know, Rome was being built, the Colosseum, Europe, all these different places in the world, these people were living the same way people lived tens of thousands of years ago right here. It's crazy.
And now it seems like we're so far removed from it, but yet as as we talk about it, that romance hadn't left. And even getting a chance to chase a bull elk, there's still some amazing rural wild places out there that you can kind of revisit.
And that was the first thing I noticed is all the Native American pictures you had. I hunt a lot with Native Americans, a lot with the Navajo Nation.
I've become like family or they become like family to me. I go out there every year and the resources they have, you know, I know Cam hunts a lot, you know, as at Muscalero and different places.
And I don't know, man, and even sadly, even amongst the natives, some of that culture is being lost with them more. And so we even go out every year and do a hunt with their kids.
We take 15 to 20 Navajo youth hunting every year out there with the Navajo Game and Fish. And they have a lot of mentors, Gloria Tom, who she's just stepping down, but she was the kind of in charge out there.
And we would go and work with people like Jeff Cole and that whole Navajo Nation, the families, and we'd take just their kids, the kids of the Navajo Nation hunting. And sadly enough, they're like a lot of kids in America eating eating little debbies and playing xbox you know it's like man you got 17 million acres in your backyard come on bro you're supposed to be the damn eagle right you gotta you gotta fly and dip down when we got you know i'm even out here you know it's your your room and we me too i have all kind of native americans my heroes um American hunters, like Ishi, who taught Pope and Young how to bow hunt.
Oh, really? Yeah. Ishi out of California.
I think he come back, and he basically taught those guys who were doctors. He introduced them to bow hunting.
And then Pope and Young, as we kill an elk, we think, oh, is he big enough to go Pope and young right explain to people what pope and young is people don't know what we're talking about pope and young is um so basically pope and young were two guys that basically just kind of revolutionized archery as we know it a lot of times i mean obviously throwing around names you got to talk about fred bear stuff like that but prior to that there was an indian named ishi um out of a california tribe and I'm not good enough at remembering exactly what tribe that was. But there's a lot of cool information that you can read.
Obviously, if you ever get your hands on Saxton Pope and Arthur Young, any books, it's fascinating. Like my favorite book of all time is called The Adventurous Bowman.
A friend of mine, Jeff Johnson, who's a writer, gave it to me. And I read it all the time.
And even my kid, I read him that book at night, you know, and this talks about their first venture into Africa. And when they went there, when they hunted grizzly, when they hunted elk the first time.
And so these guys were kind of based on what I can assume seem to be pretty much city slickers who had basically a patient called Ishi who taught them how to hunt. And pictures of him, you can still see him.
He looks's dressed at a ted nugent concert in 1969 you know jumping off the amps and uh and so yeah and so now that's become similar to boone and crockett uh pope and young is an organization that's formed around you know celebrating certain animals that are trophy aspect and if you get a you know say a white-tailed deer that nets 125 on the Pope and Young scale, you can enter them into the Pope and Young record books. And every category of species, like elk, bear, caribou, moose, so on and so forth, has that.
And so it's just kind of to celebrate a lot of the heritage of archery. And so Pope and Young, a lot of people don't know it, but that basically is the basis of what it comes from.
But it starts back to, guess what? A Native American, these arrowheads, they passed it on. And so now we're kind of carrying on that same tradition.
And so as a student of the game, it's like it's so cool to talk about a – There they are. Oh, look at that.
Yeah. Wow.
Look at that. That's cool.
Is there any – can you find, Jamie, is that Ishii? That's Ishii and Saxton Pope right there. There's Ishii there.

Oh, wow.

Can you imagine?

Look at that.

You're learning from the source.

Yeah.

I mean, and there's so many amazing stories.

What year was this?

Man, I don't even know.

It had to have been in the, I don't know, was it 20s?

Or maybe 1900.

I know it was early.

You know what's fascinating when you think about what we enjoy. We enjoy archery.
1912. 1912.
So that guy, you know, that that is like he was alive in the 1800s. Absolutely.
So he was doing that like that's literally from the source. And there's another thing.
And it's crazy to think about this. Another thing I read and heard told, because obviously, you know, you travel around and it's always trying to figure out, you know, what's fact or fiction.
But I'd listen to Casey Means on this podcast. We're talking about our food.
Supposedly, Ishi, who come in, who was actually living very primitive, but come in and once he started hanging around and got westernized, quickly got fat because I don't know if Little Debbie's was around then. It was the only thing I hated about the whole Casey Meade, that whole podcast.
I was like, man, I used to love a good oatmeal pie. Now I'm sitting here like, I don't know that glass of milk.
Should I even partake? But I think he gained a lot of weight and started getting a lot sicker. And the food back then was so much better than the food we have now.
Yeah, just around a lot of people. And all of a sudden he was trying to fight probably viruses and diseases and getting an abundance of a certain food he wasn't used to.
And supposedly I think he got a little heavier and less healthy just being around. Probably a lot of grains and sugar.
Probably. I'm sure.
He was probably eating mostly meat before that. Probably so.
Just a fish out of the creek and backstrap out of a mule deer. The way everybody did for thousands of years.
It's just so interesting that if it wasn't for guys like Pope and Young and Fred Bear, I mean, how many people were evangelizing bow hunting back then? I mean, how many people were making it something that was, you know, because as soon as rifles came along, the way everybody looked at it was, oh, rifles are better. You can shoot something further.
It's easier to do. You hunt, you hunt with rifles.
But to make that choice, this decision that there's something more connected, more spiritual about archery and bow hunting, if it wasn't for those people that were promoting it, people like Fred Bear, who was so articulate in the way he would describe things and the way he would describe the benefits of just archery practice, about how archery just removes your cares. If you could just concentrate on that target and just practice archery, it cleans your mind.
And I find that today. I do, too.
It's almost like you go back in time every time, even though we pick up, you know, these new Hoyt bows, you're like, oh my God, look at the technology. It's a lot more accurate.
It is. It's so much more accurate.
And so, yeah, it's amazing. And you're just exactly right.
It is spiritual. And to think back of where it was to where it is, but then you think about the rifles and the technology we have there but keep in mind i'm sure uh you know in those people who are really hunting for substance absolutely if if we leave tomorrow and we can't go and get us a nice steak dinner or we can't go to the grocery store and buy us some chicken or ribeye whatever it is we decide to eat well absolutely if we're like hey joe your wife and my wife is wanting us to kill a few squirrels and we're going to have squirrels and gravy.
And my wife makes some good biscuits. It's like, why don't, you know, let's leave the Hoyts at home.
Let's take a 22

and a 410. Let's just go get us a mess of squirrel.
And so I think probably they looked

at it that way. And once that came about and then it slowly becomes somewhat of a,

I hate to even say it as a sport because I don't look at it as a sport. It's a culture.

It's a discipline it's a it's a discipline but i think to know that we're still going back and celebrating that and still talking about issue and pope and young and the fred bears and what they set forth and even people like chuck adams who was always one of my heroes um you know cam and i were talking a lot about that in texas just golly chuck adams was hunting these elk and always had that little green beanie shot those double x 78 arrows and man you wasn't nobody it's like you know all the kids and even me you know i was this little chubby white kid that thought if i bought air jordan's i could jump higher and michael lied to me you're a liar jordan i can't jump any faster i can't run any faster but you know chuck when I saw those arrows and I'd see that bow I'm like man I gotta have that I want to be like Chuck you know I want to be like Fred Bear and so uh it's just amazing to see and to see that we still are celebrating it so yeah well it has a very deep connection to the human mind there's something about archery that I think it's because as human beings evolved, you know, we developed the bow and arrow, they invented it. They, they refined it.
And that was how people hunted and got their food. I think there's a genetic memory of that.
That's inside of our heads because there's like, there's something eerily satisfying about hitting a target with an arrow. It's so much different than anything.
Like, I like practicing shooting rifles. I like, I've hunted with rifles.
I like it. I like it.
It's great. Same here.
It's not the same. It's not the same.
It's not the same. It's like a tenfold different.
Yeah, it really is amazing. It's like every time, if I go rifle hunting, I love it.
I I mean, absolutely love it. Still love the whole culture of it.
I grew up in Georgia where, I mean, people were on these leases. You know, it'd be a Meade property, which was Timberland or Georgia Power Lease.

There'd be 10 of us on 500 acres or sometimes more than that.

And so, you know, everybody took a 30-06 Remington semi-automatic, you know, scope on it with over and under sites.

And we'd meet up at uncle morgan's barn me and my dad and scott steiner my uncle tommy and uncle jeff and where are you going like hell i think i'm gonna go to the boat seat you know i'm going to holler one nobody talked about wind or nothing and it was just a bunch of old guys high-fiving and we would walk back there and hunt with a rifle and as soon as you heard a rifle shot like that was uncle tommy i bet you he's got a big one you know and so it was just so amazing that part of it so i still go back and do that from a culture standpoint to feel just that feeling and vibe of being standing there in a pair of k-mart boots with some old walls coveralls draped over with them old white long handles you know that we thought we could go to the Antarctica end in reality it was just some cotton as soon as it got wet she froze to death and uh and just the thought of that of being literally in my time 11 12 years old just being one of the men with a 30 alt 6 on my shoulder climbing up in a pine tree in a tree stand built out of leftover lumber from my dad's construction job that was the most unsafe thing in the world.

A lot of people got hurt falling out of those things.

And I remember we got our first bow.

My dad and I, my dad had an old browning bow,

and he had a couple old recurres when I was young,

and he pecked around with them.

And then I remember I was 13, and I was working with him on a job site.

And that's my summer job. My dad was a carpenter, and so I and so I'd go work and man he worked cornbread hell out of me too you know just to show me how to be accountable and just what it was like to work and he paid me two dollars an hour so he said you need to pick out something as a goal figure out what you need to save your money for you don't even blow it on something stupid and I said well I don't I don't know and um and at the time some of my buddies we were savingboards.
Well, at the time, we lived on a dirt road. So I'm like, what am I going to do with a skateboard? You know, I was like, I can't.
I got to go into the city to use a skateboard. So my buddy, Jackson Bishop, we called him Boo.
He lived in the city, and we hunted together. He said, I'm buying me.
He was working with my dad and I, too. And he ended up saving his money and bought him a really cool skateboard.
I remember he built it and went and had posters of it. Well, I ended up deciding that I need to get me a bow and arrow.
So I went and bought me a Martin Pro Eliminator bow from Big Buck Trading Post. Paid $200 for that sucker.
Was that a compound bow? It was a compound bow. What year did compound bows get invented? It would have had to been, I would say, in the 70s.
I mean, the first I remember was talking about Fred Bear, the old whitetail hunter. And then you had the whitetail hunter, too, and stuff like that.
And then I know Browning came on pretty soon in that. And then, obviously, you had Hoyt.
Did they even have sights back then? We had like a pin sight. It was like a bracket, and it had this kind of rudimentary sight that you could scroll in and out.
But there's no range finders, right? There were no range finders. Is that it right there? Look at that.
The original compound. Look at that.
Up to 50% more speed and penetration. Look at that.
That was 66. So I felt like this would have been in the 80s.
66. Because I feel like...
Wow, that's wild. Price so low, hunters can't afford to be without one.
The way they used to market things back then is so funny. I know.
I love to see those old Field and Stream and Outdoor Life magazines. Yeah.
I mean, it's a window into a different time. Look at that.
Can you imagine taking that to Utah to chase an elk in the mountains? Oh, my God. god you'd have to be so close this episode is brought to you by my friends at black rifle coffee that's all i drink folks if you see me drinking coffee in the studio it's black rifle coffee it's because my friend evan hafer who owns a company i love him to death and they make the best coffee in the world they put together the best energy drink in america made with 200 milligrams of naturally sourced caffeine, low calories, and absolutely zero sugar.
It's available in four new delicious flavors, Project Mango, Ranger Berry, Freedom Punch, and White Frost. Veteran founded and veteran led, each Black Rifle coffee purchase you make helps them give back to those who serve our nation.
Shop now at blackriflecoffee.com slash Joe Rogan with the code ROGAN for 30% off or visit your local grocery and convenience stores, Black Rifle Coffee, America's Coffee. Cameron wouldn't even have to tote out a buck on his shoulders.
He could just tote that around. Probably be as heavy as a whitetail.

How heavy is that thing? Look at all the metal. There's no telling.
All the components.

What kind of feet per second are you getting

out of that sucker? What is this?

Oh, look at this. 1926.

Arthur Young.

Bow hunting. It's a grizzly here.

Oh, wow. Look at him.
Super close.

Holy cow.

I've never seen this, Jamie.

Thanks for pulling this up.

This is so cool.

1926.

Holy smokes.

I bet they didn't even have to buy a license.

I bet they just went hunting, too.

Oh, yeah.

I bet there was no licenses back then.

I mean, when did they...

All right, he hit him somewhere.

Yeah, it follows it up here. I mean, to film this is even crazy because this is 1926 so right wow you had to be so close with that shitty bow no doubt and man any i tell you what man intriguing like those guys right there there are books that they wrote if you wrote, man, intriguing.
Like those guys right there, there are books that they wrote. If you wrote those same books now, like if you and I went on a hunt and we said, hey, you know, let's just write an article and present it to Outdoor Life and publish it just as we saw it.
Which is so cool about what we do here is having a chance of conversation and kind of air out anything and everything. And obviously culture has changed the world.
I mean, these podcasts. But back then, you back then you know you had articles well they'd write these books and and it would be so like i would read it sometimes the same page two or three times it'd be like you know saxton pope talking about arthur young time yes i found out i think it's too far 70 yards is too far to shoot at a cape buffalo i put three arrows in him he didn't seem hurt i got two in the rump one in the neck and you're like like they didn't edit this out it's almost like right right right it's almost like me and you hunting squirrel like man i'll tell you what i don't like him pellets it's just not yeah those pellets and that air rifle are not i just not knocking the squirrels down good enough like oh you wasn't supposed to put that can you edit that out right they were just like okay let's put this in a book and let's sell it well they were pioneers they were learning they were learning how to do it but you imagine how you you get crucified sometimes for the people to understand hunting even ethically hunting and making a good ethical shot whether it's a bow or an arrow or a rifle and back then they were like all right let's go try to hunt some african lines i don't know what it's going to take to kill them but we'll see they were just experimenting experimenting and they they took a boat over think about i mean i mean i want to go to i've been to africa quite a few times how long does it take to get to africa in a boat it was taking a month to get over there and they would they would take a whole ship and i think they i forget i don't want to say it because it could be inaccurate historically but i want to say they was taking 40 50 bows these recurves and like just tubs and tubs of arrows i mean just because they were just launching them it's like they had more freaking arrows than p diddy had baby oil.
I mean, it's almost like, it's like,

man,

how many hairs can you fit on this boat like well we got shit well they probably knew they weren't going to get any over there and they're probably making them themselves yeah i think it documents it talks about like look if our bows tear up or in this experimental process we might need a little stronger bows so you know i, very rarely I even do this. I'll go to pretty desolate places.
I'll take one bow. Very rarely I take two bows.
I used to think it'd be beneficial. But then I started realizing, man, these things are so dependable.
I don't need it. Maybe I take a bow press or an extra string or setup.
But, I mean, they just had to take everything and they really didn't know that's such

a commitment to adventure get on a boat with a bunch of bows and a tub of arrows i mean how do you tell your wife that too because they were married can you imagine i can't imagine now that you know joe and i plan a hunt trip here and you go home and say hey man just me and what i was talking and me him and cam are thinking about running to hunt hogs well how long are you gonna to be gone. You know, it's Christmas time.
It's like, well, two, and Cam were thinking about running to hunt hogs, well, how long are you going to be gone?

You know, it's Christmas time.

It's like, well, two days.

And we're just going to drive down or fly over here, do that.

Can you imagine, hey, baby, I think I'm going to Africa,

and we're going to try to hunt some lion.

We don't know what's going to happen. We'll be back in about six, seven months.

Yeah, I'll be back next year.

I'm going to go hunt lions with a pointy stick.

Exactly.

I should be back.

Not sure what it takes to kill one.

No internet.

Yeah.

Right.

I mean, nothing.

I'm not going what it takes to kill one. No internet.
Yeah. Right.
I mean, nothing. You couldn't research.
How are you learning form and technique? Yeah. You just have to practice and then eventually figure out, well, I held my elbow this way.
It seemed to be better than this way. Yes.
I'll just tweak it. And even the this i mean oh yeah you know i hear people talk about hunting and the dangers of potential rogue wildlife but i've never been that you know grew up real country so i never had any fear of any animals you know matter of fact if i was bear hunting and i thought you know somebody said hey man bears love pork chops you walk through alaska with a pork chop around your neck might get a better chance get a shot i'm like well well hell you reckon they'll come let's try it you know, somebody said, hey, man, bears love pork chops.
You walk through Alaska with a pork chop, Randy, Nick might get a better chance to get a shot. I'm like, well, hell, you reckon they'll come? Let's try it.
You know, I want a shot at one. But think of the civil unrest.
I've always been a, you know, I went to Zimbabwe one time, me and Nick Munt and several of my buddies. We went over there to Zimbabwe, and it just happened to be when Mugabe was rerunning.
And so he had a political opponent. And so just when we think people listen to this, that, you know, politics in America are crazy.
Well, guess what? Somebody was running against Mugabe. So did they debate it on a podcast or even talk about it on CNN? No, Mugabe just went and killed the guy he was running against.
Like, OK, I win. You know, so end of story.
And so the Internet was shut down. And so I remember being over there and like, man like man i'm kind of scared not of an elephant or a lion i'm like what is this i don't have a phone i don't have internet i have no way to talk to my family i don't have any um they and my money got stolen i was the idiot who went over there like with my backpack with cash and like you know a bank envelope everything that you read like okay I'm an idiot so I go to I go to um take some money to to uh we were talking about going fishing on the Zambezi river and uh so anyway I was like I'm gonna get a little money I'm gonna tip this guy if I go fishing like dude where's my money and it was all gone so I don't know if it was between where i landed in south africa somewhere in my room i don't know where but all of my money and uh and i think i had about seven thousand dollars cash which which for me that was a lot of money like i mean i was devastated not only i lose the money it's like i didn't have money to lose like that but now i'm like what am i going to do and so they take me over to botswana and i get some pulas from an atm because it's a little more westernized but i remember calling calling home it's like man we ain't in kansas no more this ain't a whitetail hunt and in my mind i'm so singled in on the adventure and thinking of saxton uh you know pope and young and all these guys and i forget like wait a minute there's people dying and starving over here and and i'm just over here trying to maybe find a kate buffalo or a gimsbuck or something and that's where i learn a lot in my young travel of of just what's out there in the world do you ever watch uh pedro uh and puro's videos no no uh jamie let me i'll send it to you he's a there in the world.
Do you ever watch Pedro Ampuro's videos? No, no.

Jamie, I'll send it to you.

He's a fascinating dude from Spain, and he travels everywhere to bow hunt.

Everywhere.

Oh, I can already tell I'd love that.

Oh, you'd love it.

He's great, too.

His hunting adventures are really interesting, but he goes all over the place.

I love that.

He goes to, like, Tajikistan and play holy cow there he is look at that and he's i mean you can tell look i mean just he's uh you know super super super dedicated bow hunter and you know travels to greenland he was in greenland with remy they were hunting together and and just his. His stuff, Pedro's videos are really, really well done.
He's such a likable guy that it's a good introduction to people that don't even understand why anybody would be interested in bow hunting. because you realize like this guy is, he's as much fascinated by the adventure of it all than as he is even the hunting aspect of it.

Like he really enjoys being in these very different cultures and very different parts of the world. Like he hunted elk in Mongolia.
Wow. Mongolia has a large elk population.
I didn't know that. Yeah.
But it's really funny because everybody who goes there to hunt, hunts with a rifle. And so all the guides who, you know, speak Mongolian.
Rightian, they're like, what the fuck is this guy doing with his bow? This is stupid. Go shoot it.
What are you doing, Pedro? He's like, I can't shoot it. It's 98 yards away.
We have to get closer. He's like, just shoot it.
Just shoot it. Shoot it.
Kill it. Let's get out of here.
We've been here for fucking three days. They're tired of it.
But this dude's got a really fucking great channel and a ton of videos. I mean, he's been doing this for like making these videos for like 10, 15 years.
I'm definitely going to subscribe to that. I don't even see the buffalo.
Where's the buffalo? Is that? Is he? Oh, it's a mouflon. Oh, that's a mouflon.
Mouflon sheep. Oh, you went to a different video.
Okay. Go to the to the Mongolia Elkhunt because it's so fascinating.

They stayed in a yurt.

So they stayed in one of those felt tents like Genghis Khan used to live in, and they traveled in the woods.

And it looks like you're in Wyoming.

It looks like you're in Idaho.

Them yurks, I always wonder if that's what Missy Elliott was rapping about.

You know, yurt paramedic around here.

I don't think so.

I don't think she has any knowledge of your...

I used to think that's what it said.

Yeah.

But if you scroll further ahead, you can see some of the footage.

Oh, this is Ibex in Mongolia.

Dude, that'd be a tough hunt, too, man.

Google, it's not that.

Search elk in Mongolia.

He's got, I mean, he's got tons and tons.

There it is right there.

See, world record elks right there.

Second row, that one, bam.

Yeah, that's in Mongolia.

See, that's, to me, so fascinating.

Isn't that crazy?

Like, look at that.

That looks like you could be in Utah.

Absolutely.

And they just totally didn't understand why he was using a bow.

Because his dad was there. His dad hunted with a rifle.
And he was successful. And he's close.
And those look like just your basic Rocky Mountain species. I don't even know how they got there.
I don't know if they were always there. I don't know if they were introduced.
I really don't know. There's a Uruk, yep.
Yeah. And that's what they're staying in.
Really interesting. I did not even know that there were elk in Mongolia.
Yeah, I didn't either until I saw this video. Nor would I have even known you could hunt there.
And I think that's what people don't realize living in America. Yeah.
We can hunt. I mean, go do that in China.
Get hungry in China and decide you want to go get you a mess of rabbit and squirrel. Well, there might not be none.
And you can't legally hunt. You can't legally hunt in China? Not in China.
Not at all. There's several states.
You can't even bow hunt in the UK. I know.
Isn't that crazy? I mean, I don't know if that goes back to Robin Longstripe or I think some of it does, a lot of the folklore, because that was a poaching tool. He hunted the king's property.
You could do it. You could poach with a bow and arrow.
Well, that's what people don't understand. The Robin Hood was not about stealing money.
It was about using the king's land to hunt animals. Correct.
Because people were starving, and the king had all these animals, and you weren't allowed to hunt them. You couldn't.
So Robin Hood was like, this is bullshit. Like, yeah, I'll take this bow and arrow.
Let's go eat. There's stag out here, man.
Yeah. And so I'm always, the more I travel, like seeing this that Pedro's done, I hadn't done that extensive of traveling.
And I've never, if it ends with i just stay out of it yeah i mean and these extra z's yeah man that's like i try to yeah but pedro goes everywhere his i can't recommend his show enough it's so good it's and i watch him all the time late night when i want to chill when i'm at home i come home from the comedy club i'll throw on some of his videos check out pedro chill out i out. Have you ever heard of this? What is that? I was looking at the initial books coming out of hunting trips to Africa.
Dingo neck? Multiple people said they saw this. One guy said he even shot one.
In Africa they saw it? Yeah. How long ago was this? 1907, I think.
What the fuck? Do they have a photo of it? It obviously might even be a real thing, but the descriptions of it were backed up by multiple people. Huh.
A carnivore that chose to hunt or devour nearly whatever it wants to save for elephants. Holy cow.
It had tusks? Dog-headed beast fish. What? I don't even think Jim Shockey's hunted one of them.
Where did you find this, Jamie? Literally. I'm looking at all these history books about different expeditions, and this was one from 1908.
They went to look for some certain things. They encountered this in Lake Victoria.
Huh. I mean, it's probably not real.
Look at this. But it seems like it is.
I want to believe. He encountered by Lake Victoria when asked Bronson's own hunting party provided nearly identical descriptions of the creature.
The title is referenced to the author having been given special permission to hunt the closed territory of Loida, Maasai, Kisi, and Sotik. Wow.
What the hell was that? Just looking it up. Very strange.
It looks different in a bunch of the drawings, though. Sure.
I mean, they don't have a picture, I guess. But remember when we were showing those ancient pictures of what a uh a whale looked like to people they'd never seen a whale before and it had like wings and a lion's head so i was fascinated on all that those paintings what it could be and engravings it it kind of some of it you can say like okay we still have some of those animals that look that way and then some kind of looks kind of mystical you haven't seen the ones that cave panties where it's like a stegosaurus yeah like how did you know what that looked like somebody exactly they didn't google it right did were there a few laying around i mean i wonder i'm so intrigued by that i think i'm more intrigued with it hunting and traveling and being in these places like we we went down i love the turkey hunt i love the turkey hunt matter of fact i'm i'm gonna do everything in my power and everybody listens to this ever even ever knew my name knows everybody's like dude you got to get cam and rogan to go turkey hunting i went turkey hunting once did you really runella he did you really runella dude he's yeah it was fun yeah he's fun i i love turkey hunting i just love it and that's how i kind of broke into the the industry it's definitely a superior turkey to eat whoo they are they're delicious they are delicious to eat and uh but anyway with that said we were down um right out of the yucatan peninsula hunting oscillated turkeys which is a different species you can hunt all these turkeys and get different slams yeah i think ranella's got the slam yeah ranella's done it and so i went down there with actually troy troy link of jack link's jerky and he's a big hunter so we all went down there kind of for the adventure and to say yeah we hunted the jungles and dude amazing you know you got all that mayan civilization and all this stuff that i saw even graham hancock but what people don't realize we're out in the middle of this jungle and i'm walking around and uh the guy i'm with he don't know english and i'm like and co-installing our producer he's standing there i was like dude this is a this is one of those pyramids like we're walking up and i'm i'm trying to figure out if i can hen call because nobody had ever figured out if you can hen call to these oscillated turkeys i get to looking around and so finally i'm tapping this guide on the shoulder and i'm like bro you know mayan he said oh see see and i'm like there's so many of those structures out there yeah and we're out there hunting turkeys they don't think nothing about it it's kind of like us walking around out in the middle of the woods in georgia and find an old whale you know we're intrigued right they're like oh yeah there's they're everywhere so i only knew about the ones that was on the postcards you know right that you go and yeah when you're out there having a corona on the beach and somebody kind of sell you engraving to your wife and some you know ring or something i'm like oh my god dude and and like i wanted so bad for a turkey to respond and to put my back against that and so i did a little video and i was like man this is insane but when would i have had a chance to see that had i not been a hunter yeah so that gets you down the rabbit hole of like well what was this and what is that calendar and i wonder what graham hancock is so when i'm seeing some of this i'm like dude i was in that area i didn't go to see that particular piece where he's talking to this authority but i did go you know 30 miles south of there or 100 miles and i had a chance to work a turkey around one that's not even been excavated and it was just blew my mind they find so many of those too the jungle just overrun all that civilization just overcame it and you just they find them with you know what lidar is i heard yes i saw well i didn't know about it until i watched that on the netflix show with graham and he's crazy showing how they're flying over in those rings see if you can find that pyramid they just unearthed in guatemala they just unearthed some huge pyramid in guatemala and that's we were we were south i think it was guatemala we were right there and kind of right on the southern tip of mexico just as you go into guatemala and uh i was just intrigued and we're in the jungle and stay in these little huts and i remember these little tents like almost a screen porch i was just i was blown away and the whole time i like thank you lord for allowing me to be the hunter to go see this to to experience this and i don't know it's just i'm overwhelmed i've never got bored with it and the more i do it the more humbling it becomes as soon as you start thinking like man i got a bunch of elk with my bow and arrow i got this figured out i'm about to run a rake through them i know where they're gonna be and then you go out there and they just kick your butt yeah there's no real figuring it out.
I mean, you certainly, you get to your level

or a level of Cam Haynes or

Remy Warren. You become

very proficient. You understand what to do.

Here it is. Find

lost city in Mexico, jungle by accident.

Holy cow. Yeah, this

is what it was. It wasn't Guatemala.

So archaeologists found pyramids, sports

fields, causeways, and connecting districts,

amphitheaters in the southern central state of Campeche. Campeche, yeah.
Campeche. They uncovered the hidden complex, which they have called Valeriana, using LIDAR, a type of laser survey that map structures buried under vegetation.
They believed it is second in density only to Calakmul, thought to be the largest Maya site in ancient Latin America. The team discovered three sites in total in a survey the size of Scotland's capital, Edinburgh, by accident when one of the archaeologists browsed data on the internet.
That's so crazy. They found it by accident.
See, that's amazing. And I i got the same vibe when i was down because we weren't too far out of campeachy when we was turkey hunting and so as we're going through there and there's thousands and thousands and thousands of acres i'm not even sure i set up i don't know if it's you know governmently owned in this case mexico or if it's village um but when i saw that even though we videoed it i asked later i come back and the main outfitter he's very fluid in english he said yeah we don't you know there's all kind of stuff out there we don't talk about it a lot because this is our hunting ground it's almost like the buffalo drop right they don't want people archaeologists they really don't want grand hancock down there with a team of filmmakers from California.
Like, they don't want it.

I see their point, but I don't.

Absolutely.

And they kind of, but I think that's what's fascinating about all that we're able to talk about and share now culturally.

Yeah.

As we realize, if you grow up hunting and fishing, well, I really assume everybody did.

Right.

I didn't think there was somebody that hadn't eaten squirrel. Right.
I did a walk. I didn't eat a squirrel until I was 45 years old.
That's what I'm saying. And I grew up to where, like, laying and eating with my papa, like, one day, damn it, I'm going to buy me some ribeyes.
You know, it's like you eat enough squirrel and rabbit. And it's great.
But it's almost like, man, I'm going to get that big family pack of chicken. Right.
And we ate plenty of of that but it was always a fallback to where you understood the good lord's renewable resources and yeah how to hunt them so taking an animal for table fair wasn't anything at all to even cheer about other than you know almost a in the blessing of blessing your food like thank you lord for giving us this opportunity to have a place to hunt so it would be a chance to go put a fish basket out i remember my papa would taught me so many things he made corn liquor and just country as a damn chicken and uh and i look back he passed away when i was 12 both of my granddads did and my dad eb and waddell same way i mean they taught me so much but i just assume this is what every man was And I figured this is what everybody knew. Because that's how you grew up.
Yeah. And I remember I started working in the hunting industry when I was young.
I remember, I tell this story, I just remember like going to a nice restaurant and people ordering appetizers. I'm like, what are we doing? What are we doing? What does that mean? He was like, bring us some ceviche and some calamari.
You guys like cheese sticks? Look, I know they're unhealthy. Anybody like cheese sticks? He's like, I like cheese sticks.
Then all of a sudden, we're sitting here chatting like we are, and everybody's having a cocktail. I'm like, man, I'm so happy.
This is the funnest. I'm loving this.
And I'm literally going back and at the end of the night calling my dad, like, you ain't gonna believe it. Everybody's eating before you eat.
Like we had, we getting shrimp cocktail and I'm over there. And it sounds crazy and almost like, it's exaggerated, but I was so overwhelmed.
I was so intrigued with the city and just people i would be the guy talking to everybody you know from the from the you know street people like what's up dog you know like you know they're you know like man what's it like out here you know like man you ever you ever ate a pigeon man a lot of these pigeons go get you a couple ketchup packets from mcdon a rock. Hell, people should hit you.
And so I was – it was almost like the exact opposite from some of now my city friends who have gotten just enthralled with hunting. They introduced me to so much of the city culture that, you know, I still get excited.
Everybody don't think I would, but I still love to get excited to go. I had a chance.
Joe Mantegna is somebody who's got a show on Outdoor Channel.

So he has this big cigar dinner every night, I mean, every year in Burbank.

And so all the Fuentes, you know, and all these different, you know, movie stars and stuff.

And so he's like, man, why don't you get a table?

Come out and join us.

I'm like, yes.

I took my wife.

We're all country.

I was so excited to just get dressed up and everybody think I wouldn't like it.

But I was like, man, this is cool. I'm out there having me a cigar there's the guy from rambo i forget his name but it's in karate kid the uh yeah sure uh and i'm like i'm meeting some of these people and i'm thinking it's amazing how culturally being so country and and how now i'm talking to some of these guys like man dude you're the hunting guy can you man why don't you take me hunting i'm intrigued with that yeah and so now having a chance i know you've had like jim brewer on which what a cool cat i love jim he is so fun i couldn't hardly hunt with him or theo for just constantly laughing i mean i i like to cut up and have a good time the first time i went hunting hunting, I went with Rinella, took me and Brian Callen.

And it's the same deal.

Brian Callen's fucking hilarious.

We were just crying, laughing in Montana, freezing our dicks off, having a good time.

My experience was the opposite.

Always lived in cities.

And then the first time I went hunting was with Rinella.

I had been camping before when I was a kid, but I had no real exposure to nature. Right.
And I remember just after that week doing it, I was like, I'm doing this for the rest of my life. This hit you.
Oh, 100%. I remember cooking the back straps over the fire.
It was me and Rinella and Callan and the crew, and we were just sprinkling some seasoned salt over these back straps and cooking them over the fire. And we're eating them with our hands.
And I was like, I'm doing this for the rest of my life. This is like one of the greatest moments I've ever had in my life.
One of the greatest experiences. I've felt so tuned into it.
I was like, this is something I've been missing. Like this is, and it's a whole new world.
I explained it. I was like, it's like you're in a different dimension.
The first time I shot a deer was on that show. So I had never hunted an animal before.
I'd only been fishing. And the first time I'm looking at that deer through the crosshairs of that rifle, and I'm just calming myself to squeeze a shot.
And I squeeze off the shot and the deer drops like a stone. And I was like my god i'm like this is what i'm doing forever yes and then once i started eating it i was like oh this is this is my new thing i'm like i'm obsessed i was obsessed obsessed and then obsessed with what i would all i had been missing just the experience of being in the woods is so different than anything the way way people think of hunting, unfortunately, we've been poisoned by movies where the hunters are the bad guys.
They're always douchebags. They're always like poaching animals and harassing people.
Hunters in movies, it's a trope that they've always been like cruel, evil people. Like there's Bambi.
Theambi the walt disney movies are the worst oh

they ruin people yeah they ruin this idea people who buy burgers from mcdonald's yeah will look

down on someone who hunts an animal in the woods and it's correct it's just we've been our brains

have been distorted our perceptions have been distorted by media and i realized that being in woods hunting i was like this first of all this is very difficult to do mule deer hunting in montana

you have been distorted by media. And I realized that being in the woods hunting, I was like, first of all, this is very difficult to do.
Mule deer hunting in Montana in October, freezing cold in the Missouri breaks. Fascinating.
Just the whole, the environment is so unforgiving and doesn't give a fuck about you. The quiet and the isolation out there, and a weird kind of loneliness.
Like not loneliness, but a realization of where your place really is in the natural world. You're not special.
You're not. There's nothing significant about you.
Crying in a salt. Yeah, you're just one of many living things trying to get along out here, trying to to get by and you have an advantage obviously because you have a rifle and you have binoculars and all that other good stuff but the reality of it is it's very very difficult to achieve success especially if you don't know what you're doing i was very lucky to have a guy like ranella show me around but once you do it once you're like oh god like this is incredible like and then eat that animal, completely different experience than any other meal I've ever had in my life.
Yeah. It's such a piece that comes with it.
And I try to explain that, but there's no way to explain it until you experience it. Right.
I was even trying to explain it to Theo. I don't know if I got that across.
We laughed. Theo is a unique dude.
Man, he's one of the most, I've met quite a few people, not as many as you, but Theo by far is one of the coolest, unique people I've met. And I remember we get out and we're going to Turkey Hut, you know, and I knew, first of all, I think I ruined his whole excitement of it when I said, all right, man, I'll wake y'all up.
We got about 4.35. You know, he's like, what'd you say,addell? I said, oh, man, I didn't sign up for this.
You know, I didn't say this in a brochure. And I was like, and so Caleb Presley, Barstool Sports, he was there.
And I was a big fan of those guys. So I was trying to make sure I gave them the best experience I could, you know, because I, you know, just like Rinella did with you, I knew the magnitude of, okay, these guys, I hope they want to do it again.
But we go out there, and Theo had not been around a gun a lot, and so I figured it'd be easy. I had a 20-gauge, well, I can't remember if it was a 20 or 12-gauge.
I had a couple, but I put red dot, those Bushnell red dot scopes on there to make it really easy. Not have them shoot the bee, just look through this optic and see the red dot, put it on the turkey's head the trigger so theo's looking through that thing so you want me to shoot now i said no theo i mean

just it's not even daylight good he's got sunglasses on and he says uh he's looking through this joke he's looking through this shotgun he said oh man he said i see that red dot he said when i pull the trigger it turn green and, Theo, and so there's clips of it. And I literally, he said, and then he looked at me and said, who's on the other team? There he is.
That's it. No, no, don't shoot.
Don't shoot. No.
Don't shoot. Don't keep your cue thing off the trigger.
Okay. All right.
Let's see what I'm saying. How you can see the red dot, the red dot are going to his head.
If you can get him in. All right.
And who's the other team? Who's the other team? I don't think I'm out of trouble. Look, did I say out of trouble? Bro, he lives in another dimension.
Theo lives in a neighboring dimension, and he just comes and visits us. Oh, God.
Theo and I went to the UFC two weekends ago. Last weekend? When was it? Two weekends ago? We were in Vegas, and then after the fights, we went to dinner.
And I swear to God, the dinner, it was an hour and a half of me and Theo crying, laughing. I mean, tears.
I'm wiping my eyes. I can't breathe.
I go, dude, this should have been a podcast. We should have filmed this.
Oh, God. I can only imagine.
We were crying. We were just crying.
He was saying the most ridiculous shit, and I was laughing so hard. It was so much fun.
He's so fun. He's so fun.
I had so much fun with that guy, man. And he said so much that I couldn't repeat.
That was so funny. And then they said so much that I could.
But I hadn't met anything quite like him. No.
He's so unique. He's a one of a kind.
He's a one of a kind. Such a big heart, too, man.
Oh, he's a sweetheart. Such a nice guy.
He's such a kind person and just a very unique talent. And that's the thing, too.
Caleb, on the other hand, he ended up did getting a turkey, Caleb. And he kind of took to it pretty quick.
Theo liked it, but I think his attention, if it is attention deficit, he definitely had it. He's got that.
And he was kind of cool. And anyway, and I realized Theo had more fun just kind of walking around, checking out the cows.
Yeah. I mean, dude, that would be a whole, you could do a special of Theo just walking around, maybe after a mushroom or something, just let him walk around and just describe what he's seeing I mean our producer come back and he I saw him way away I was tired man I've been hunting a lot and he said man we're gonna go take an adventure walk around the ranch you know farm it was down in South Florida and I come back our producer was laughing he said man I I can't even tell you all I heard and what Theo was saying he said i i've never laughed so hard and um i said i can only imagine i can only imagine but uh but yeah man i don't know it's just like that that part i think that's the most beautiful thing for me coming from where i come from and even you know seeing all the different people from all these cultures and there's so much and and i've completely understood this too there's so little that separate us all from the most rural country guy to the most urban city guy, no matter what race, ethnicity.
It's amazing how there's so much entertainment in things. If you just open your mind, not pretend to know it all, to want to learn, because there's so much you can teach me, so much I can teach you.
And it's just amazing. And it's definitely given me a whole lot better perspective um and and I don't know that that's been probably the coolest part of what I've had a chance to go on an adventure and a journey is to be able to you know meet somebody like Brewer who's like you know he didn't really was not intrigued with hunting it was more the conspiracy of what was going down and like dude I went to go get some chicken breast and some chicken wings to watch football you couldn't find any the government fauci is making me learn what he'll teach me how to kill a turkey you know on the other hand first morning out jim kills one and so you know you've hunted enough you and cam where you know you get an elk and it is a reverence it's not like you everybody reacts different so but if you know if you played a good era kind of the ted nugent the spirit of the era spirit of the wild and that era goes in there and you you've worked for it you practice and when it you know it's a good ethical shot and you know that you got and essentially put the tag on that bull it is almost like spike some people it's almost like spiking the football when you get a touchdown.
Yeah. So I was so excited that Jim Brewer had just got a turkey that me and, and I had Ira Dean, who used to be in that country group, Trick Pony, who is just a trip in itself.
He's good friends with Jim and they live somewhere close down there in Naples, Florida. And me and Ira are just grabbing him.
Look like you wrestling jujitsu. I got him in the head like, you got him, Jim.
You're like, you know, punching him like, you smoked him. You're not, you dude, right in the head.
You know, we high-fiving and Jim's just over like, like, like. Overwhelmed.
Like the woman in the shower on Psycho. Like, what did I just do? I just killed something.
And all of a sudden I forgot. This is a guy in the movies.
This is a comedian that I grew up as a kid watching on Saturday Night Live. He's never been there.
And so, and then we slowed down. And it wasn't even hardly any time after that.
You know, Jim's just sitting there. He takes the turkey, and he's holding it like a little puppy dog.
And he's holding it. And Ira, my buddy, gets it.
He grabs his beak and says, hello, Jim. And I think even Jim talks about it but i i just sat back and i'm like man what how cool is this yeah you know and then the same token you know jim's like hey man if you ever down here and want to come to one of my comedy shows and you know for my wife and friend to go do that or to to see something i've never seen yeah or go home and still tell my dad who's 71 like you're not you're not going to believe what I saw in Austin.
You're not going to believe what happened in, you know, wherever, Las Vegas, we're at the SHOT Show. It's, I don't know.
It's pretty amazing. That's the beauty of travel, right? Like, the more environments you could go into, the more completely different cultures you could explore.
You get just a wider sense of humans. Yeah.
And you realize, like, we have more in common than we do opposed to each other. We have much more that we share than we don't.
Correct. And what really is just, like, what environment did you grow up in? You grew up in the country.
I grew up in the city. Yeah.
But once you find common ground and once you experience it, like experiencing nature for the first time for people that are in the city, it's so overwhelming for them. It's so interesting to watch them just walk around the woods and just be confused and not knowing how to navigate, not knowing where they are and being exhausted, not knowing how much energy it takes going up hills.
Or how are we going to get back? Yeah. Where are we at? We're eight miles deep.
Yeah. Yeah, we've got to walk eight miles back.
When is that going to get us back? Well, probably 11 p.m. Yeah, it's going to be late.
Like, what? 11 p.m.? Yeah, we have headlights. Put on your headlamps.
Like, what? We're going to walk in the dark. Are there animals out here? There's a lot of animals out here.
And they know where you are before you know where they are. A hundred percent.
Yeah. It is so intriguing.
And to think about. Totally different world.
It is a completely different world. And for me, it was so cool.
I've, over the years, working for different, I call it more non-edemic. Like, obviously, when you think of Hoyt, you think of Realtree, you think of these different companies that are around the hunting culture.
But I remember one year I had a chance to work with Hormel Denny Moore Stew. Horm had denny more beef stew and so they did the sweepstakes and um it's like win a turkey hunt with michael waddell and so we did it and they run 30 second ads that was when uh you know everything was a bunch of 30 second ads and so the guy wins it him and his son and um well they get there and i realized they'd never hunted and and and it was my first time to experience guiding somebody that knew nothing i mean i'd guided a lot of rookies but i'm talking about when i say had no clue of nature never shot a gun never shot a gun i mean immediately you know had a big rambo knife tied on his side of his thing it's like okay and so i remember we walk And uh and i realized that okay this would be fun for me because from the basics of everything just the mount the streams to the tracks and so we're walking along and me and his son and him are talking and i say look here this is a coyote track right here look at this cool and you could see it in the sendero a perfect coyote track oh man that's man, that's cool.
And everything he would relate to would be to a cartoon, like the coyote on Bugs Bunny Roadrunner Show. I said, yeah, like Bugs Bunny Roadrunner, coyote, but this is a real coyote.
And I said, oh, this is cool. Check this out.
This is a bobcat track. Oh, man.
I said, look, here's a turkey track, but this is a hen track. This track is different.
I'm explaining to him the different things. I mean, we saw everything that day from hog, javelina tracks.
So finally we're walking. He's just so cool with these tracks, like taking pictures.
He said, hey, man, any Cheetos around here? And I said, what? And he said, you know, Cheetos. Cheetos? I said, are you talking about like Cheetos? Snacks? Snacks.
He said, oh, yeah. I mean, any of those animals? And I said, what? What? I swear.
I swear. Animals.
He, that just shows the disconnect. Cheetos, Chester the Cheetah, which I guess is from a true animal, a cheetah.
But Chester Cheeto, he was like a is any of those tracks? If you see one of those tracks, show me what a Chester Cheeto track looks like. I'm like, you know, we don't have cheetahs, but there is no Chester the cheetah.
But then it hit me. It's like he was talking about the movies.
Well, Bambi is so real to them. The fox and the hound.
I mean, it's so real. It's like, you know, somehow, you know, they think that you go to Antarctica or North Pole and these polar bears are sitting having a soda and high-fiving and talking about Christmas.
Eating Klondike bars. Yeah, eating Klondike bars.
Like, what's up, Waddell? Yeah. Come over here, man.
Right. Have a Coke with us.
You know, it's like, no, that's not. These animals will smell you and they come hunt you.
It's like, wait a minute, a seal that we got to wait days for him to come out of the hole and hunt them down? Or look, there's a dude that's been eating a lot of fried chicken and collard greens and cornbread. I bet that sucker, I bet he can't run fast.
Let's go eat him. And so it's just a disconnect of not knowing and thinking that everything is almost like going to the zoo.
And then when it becomes hard, you know, and you're two or three days in and you're not had opportunities like, dude, what is going on? Like, we're hunting. I mean, I've even had them like, dude, I thought you were good.
I mean, well, I'm trying. I'm trying.
It's just this animal, it does not want to get on your plate. It's not an easy thing to do.
No. And that's also the problem with hunting shows.
Yeah. Because a hunting show, if it's a half an hour show, it's 22 minutes of actual footage.
And so you're boiling down a 10-day hunt to 22 minutes. And the reality is that gives a distorted perception to the people at home.
Like, oh, it's easy. It's easy.
They just go there. They put the animal in their crosshair.
That's not fair. You hear that all the time.
That's not fair. Like, survival's not fair.
You think it's fair that the lion gets to kill the gazelle? It's not fair. No.
Of course it's not fair. There's nothing fair in nature.
Why are elephants big? Why are mice small? There's nothing fair. No.
Fair doesn't factor in. This is what you're trying to do.
You're trying to survive. Obviously, you can go to the store, but out here, there's no fucking stores.
So out here, if you want to survive, if we lived here forever, this is the only environment you're ever going to be here until your heart stops beating. Correct.
This is the only one way. You've got to figure out the wind.
You've got to figure out where they are. You've got to pattern them.
You've got to figure out how to sneak up on them. You've got to figure out how to execute a shot without getting buck fever.
You've got to do all these things. This is the only way.
It's so deep. You're right.
And it is difficult. You just can't boil it down to 10.
Pedro does a really good job of showing how difficult it is on these crazy adventure hunts that he does. But even still, it's an hour or an hour and a half.
Like, the reality is it's 10 fucking days, man. 10 days.
That's right. 10 to 12 miles a day, sweating your ass off, coming back exhausted, your feet hurt, your back's killing you, and you sleep so hard.
You sleep like a dead man. And then that alarm clock goes off at 4.30 in the morning.
Like, oh, you get some coffee in you with a jet boil, and you're freezing, and you're trying to to warm your hands up and then you're off again. Yep.
But it still almost feels like I always talk about hunting and opening a day. It's kind of like Christmas.
It's like, you know, when you finally do get to that September and I just use elk hunting as an example because I know you love elk hunting. It's almost like you are tired.
You've been grinding. You've had, you know, doing your daily gigs of whatever you're doing the responsibilities of everything in your life finally i'm in elk camp and you're already tired in that first morning you maybe don't sleep good because you're anxious and excited and then all of a sudden you finally fall in a deep sleep and all of a sudden like but then all of a sudden it's kind of like as a kid when you're waiting on santa claus it like, man, I'm not sleeping.
I'm listening for him. I left milk cookie for him.
But then you fell asleep deep, and all of a sudden you wake up like, Santa Claus. So you jump up, and you're still tired.
And so hunting to me is still that. That's amazing that it's still that after all these years.
I still get excited. That's the same with Cam.
I mean, he's been hunting his whole life. He still loves it more than anything.
I plan on it so hardcore that when Netflix gave me a comedy special, I had to make sure that it was the beginning of August. I was like, I need time to get ready.
Because I have a whole training routine and a shooting routine. And I want to make sure I'm shooting 100 hours a day, seven days a week.
I want to make sure my accuracy is fully dialed in. I have 100% confidence.
My cardio is on point. I got to be ready.
So I was like, it can't be any later than like August 5th. I'm like, I need like four hard weeks.
I mean, I'm training for it all year round, but four hard weeks, almost like you're getting ready for a fight. In some of those meetings still, do you still have maybe executives looking at you like, Oh yeah, they ask weird questions.
I don't understand that. Like, so September 12th through the 23rd.
I'm like, you're not going to find me. Yeah.
And to them, they don't understand like, you know, outside of people playing football, like you still see the Christmas games and the Christmas Eve or Thanksgiving. But for me, like Thanksgiving and Christmas, very rarely, you know, all of us kind of like i'm taking that day you know i'm taking that day and that's kind of like unfortunately now we get in these hobbies of hunting like okay i can't do anything the first week in april that's turkey season and september oh man that whole month's gone yeah and november oh man the deer are rutting i don't know that y'all got anything in july i've had big guests like important guests yeah that wanted to come in like september 10th i'm like that's not gonna work can't do it it's not gonna happen well it's the only time he's in america it's not gonna work sorry let me know if he come back yeah let me know if he come back i'm not missing that it's just it's my favorite time of the year there's nothing like it but i had a funny story it happened similar and you know people wonder like do you ever get tired of it um you really don't i mean i'm sure like you you know obviously say in the comedian world to kind of draw parallels that opportunity to go out for 30 minutes or an hour to make someone laugh and and they're digging on the stuff that you're performing it's got to be a a natural high that comes with it.
So there becomes an addictive quality to it. And it's not necessarily about the money.
It's just a certain situation that feels good. So you wonder, like, when do I want to step down for this? And it's kind of like, you know, Keith Richards playing a guitar.
Maybe never. It's like this is part of it.
And I think hunting becomes like that. And to the point with me, like the things I love love and I've been blessed that inevitably my financial opportunities have came from promoting hunting and working for different partners as is cams um and many of us Remy Steve a lot of us but uh I'm still so addicted to the point to where my wife she loves country music my wife Christy and so through people we meet we've got invited to some really cool things, you know, from get togethers to, to parties, to situations, awards, to ceremonies, to different clubs.
And so a lot of times we'll try to go. And it's actually a cool thing for me because I say, Hey man, I met this person.
Would you like to do this or that? And one thing in particular happened, um, my wife loves country music and there's a lot of those country music guys that I hunt with so i had gotten a text from a guy they was having the some award ceremony um around the country music i forget which one it was but when they had it at the dallas stadium and uh anyway i had got invited he said hey if you want to come out waddell look man we'd like to have you have you to you know man we'll we'll treat you like one of the singers you know and um so immediately i said oh dude what's the dates and they said it's april like it was a i forget what it was it was whatever it was it hit right in turkey season like right when i knew i hadn't even had anything planned this was time but i knew kind of like you know september so i said man i'm sorry thank you so much for the invite but i'm not gonna be able to make it, my wife and I don't have a relationship where we go in through each other's phones and stuff like that. But that particular, my phone was sitting, it was maybe a week later sitting there.
And that same gentleman had texted me on another matter. And so he had just texted me.
I said, Christy, get my phone. So she did.
And somehow that she just happened to look at that text. And all of a sudden I couldn't figure out was just kind of giving me the cold shoulder like the rest of the day I'm like what did I do and I couldn't figure out what I did you know so finally I was like look baby you know I figured out a lot of things about elk and turkey I ain't figured out a woman completely and so I know I done pissed you off some kind of way I don't know what I did but you know help me understand, help me understand.
She said, you know what? I do have a bone to pick with you. And I was like, oh, hey, well, let me have it.
You know, let me have it. And I'm already thinking, I ain't did shit.
You know, I don't think. She said, you know what? I know you like to hunt turkeys.
I'm like, okay. All right.
And I'm like, yeah, I love to hunt turkeys. She said, but you know what? We could take one night and go to a really cool ward ceremony.
Maybe we hang out with blake and have a drink and just chill and relax and luke was gonna be and i and i was like what are you talking about and then she said well i saw the text and we were invited to go to the awards and and you quickly just said no didn't even talk and i'm like i'm like and then i hit me like what a self I don't know how many turkeys I've seen shot or how many turkeys I've shot myself. But here it is.
I'm 50 years old. And I'm saying no, just like that, without hesitation.
Right. No, I mean, that would be fun.
In my mind, I'm thinking, dude, if that was June or July and I had your number, I'd be texting everybody. Dude, are y going you can we yeah can we have a drink hang out sure but it's like nope it wouldn't matter elvis presley it's gonna be the show i was like and then it hit me i'm like man i am a little selfish selfish yeah and it hit me there and i and i and i did i sincerely said i'm sorry because you're right i could have just got a We could have flew out there and spent a great evening, had a great date night and saw the awards and come back.

But in my mind, I'm thinking, why would anybody go to a big city in the middle of Turkey City?

I don't understand that. And I'm trying to still learn it, still learn it.

Well, the reality of it is if you haven't experienced hunting, you don't understand why people are so drawn to it and why it's the experience is so much more powerful than anything else you have in life. Other than the birth of your children, you know, being in love.
There's a bunch of experiences that are wonderful in the regular modern civilized life. But when you get that bug, you get that bug, you know, you get that bug.
When you hear the swat of that fucking arrow hitting the vitals and you see the spot right in the golden triangle, you see the blood dripping down and you see him stumbling forward, you're like, we got him, we got him. And every sense in your body is on 10 your your fucking goosebumps have goosebumps everything it's just there's nothing like it in the world you want to stand up yeah and tie that bandana like on rambo first blood like like it's just you just it i don't know it's crazy feeling and i hope more people get a chance to experience it But it is unbelievable.
It to do it's so hard especially like archery elk hunting or archery mule deer hunting probably even more difficult i agree it is so hard to do to get someone addicted to that boy you gotta you've gotta get a special kind of person that's willing to, like, the learning curve is so long.

And the physicality of that high desert mule deer.

Oh, yes.

Oh, it's brutal.

And also, those motherfuckers are smart.

Oh, yeah.

You think they're not?

They've been ducking mountain lions for five, six years, and they know any little snap of a branch,

any little, like, moving of a rock that sounds like it might have been a predator's paw.

Oh, yeah.

They're on a swivel. They're up, and they're bouncing.
Boing, boing, boing. See ya.
They're gone. And that's what other thing people don't realize.
You know, they think, oh, you hunters are going out there and, you know, getting these animals. And, you know, obviously the hunters have such a responsibility and the balance of a lot of things.
You know, and Mother Nature is, first of all, very brutal. And there's a lot to be learned through nature.
There's a lot of things we think we know, but then if you really dig deep and you're in the mountains, you realize, wait a minute, that was all human nature. This is nature.
There's a difference. So many examples that you can get into.
But at the end of the day, these deer also have coyotes. Now they reintroduce wolves in some of these places.
And they have done studies that in some cases they feel like an adult male mountain lion can kill up to 100

mule deer, one mountain lion. So you're talking 80 to 100 animals that they kill.
So when you

think about us, even if we're athletic. Is that a year? That's a year.
That's one. And they've

done all kinds of studies. I know the state utah has been really proactive um which is great and what i love about utah game and fish is what they're doing they're listening to a lot of these mountaineering type of guys who are not you know have a doctorate in biology or or balancing nature they're just ranchers they're outfitters they're hunters they're somebody that's immersed themselves and you know they might not can sit there and restart recite shakespeare but they can certainly tell you what they've seen they don't claim to know it all but they can tell you things that they are seeing out there there's different kinds of intelligence 100 yeah and a lot of and a lot of the game of fish uh sometimes we'll get at to say, well, what am I going to learn from a Joe? What am I going to learn from Michael Waddle? Remy Warren? Come on, dude.
Okay, you hunt a lot. But, you know, I got a doctorate in this.
Well, like California is a great example. Yeah.
A lot of their game and fish. I don't even think they call it game and fish.
I think they call it fish and wildlife. Correct.
Yeah, because they don't want the concept of game to be introduced, meaning hunted.

Their thought is they want to get it to the point where the predators and the prey balance each other out where there's no need for hunting.

And they would like to reintroduce wolves to help.

They do.

It's animal activists that have taken these positions that should be held by wildlife biologists who have an objective understanding of the populations and how to keep them healthy. And the way they're doing it in California is you've got mountain lions everywhere.
Yeah. In this one ranch that I hunt, they had a waterhole.
They had a pond and they had a trail cam. They found 18 different cats that visited this trail cam.
See that? 18 different mountain lions. That goes beyond what biologists will tell you.
As a matter of fact, a lot of times, a lot of the studies are now it's been changed and everything, the goalposts are being adjusted. But there was a time, I think it was 28 square mile radius that I know at least in the state of Utah.
So I'm not saying every game of fish department, you know, I call it a fishing game or fish and wildlife would say, but they had specifically, they said a male mountain lion basically controlled 28 miles diameter only to find that in Utah, I've got some friends and outfitters that went out there when they did have the quota tags. Now you can just buy a tag over the counter and you can get depredation.

You can hunt mountain lion all the time because they realize, look,

these mountain lions are killing a lot of elk, a lot of mule deer specifically.

On top of that, you don't know what the winter is going to be and what that's going to kill.

Then you've got wolves, you've got bears, you've got all this stuff.

This outfitter took a business card and he put it down.

He said, well, I know y'all think this, but I want to show y'all what I filled the quota. He said, I shot 10 mountain lions in this business card.
And he put it down. He said, well, I know y'all think this, but I want to show y'all what I filled the quota.
He said, I shot 10 mountain lions in this business card. He said three of them was here.
So your theory that one male mountain lion is in this 28 mile diameter is completely busted. This is not on anything I've studied.
I didn't go to Harvard. I didn't go to Auburn University in the wildlife department.
I don't have trail cameras out there i'm just telling you that with red bone hounds this is a true statistic here's the photos and so what has happened a lot of those people got together and what i love about utah they are listening and they're saying okay this old so hillbilly knows something let's listen to him and so they're adjusting and now the deer numbers are going up the hunting's getting better and uh and it's unfortunate that that really some of these people might be right that nature does have a great way of balancing itself very more way more brutal than what you and i would approach the management process but everything's changing i mean you know you talk about california you talk aboutintroduced the wolves, say, in Colorado. Well, all that was voted in in a very urban area, specifically Aspen.
All the ranchers, all that. I don't think it should be voted in at all.
It shouldn't be. Ballot biology, to me, is ridiculous.
It don't make sense. You should have to have an understanding about what you're voting on from a perspective of the people that are actually in the field.
Correct. And the reality of mountain lions is, like, you're not going to get an accurate assessment from someone who visits it once a month.
They think you can go out there and sell tourist tickets to watch the mountain lions. You can't find them.
I'll tell you this. They're there, and they know you're coming.
They smell you miles away. They're not going to be anywhere near you, and if you do see them, it's rare.
I heard Rinella, because Rinella spends a lot of time in desolate places and i didn't specifically talk to cam but kind of in perspective um i started working in the area of either guiding or working with an outfitter working with companies that were doing shows for at the time tnn that turned into espn now outdoor channel now youtube so on so, so as a young kid, you know, in rural Georgia, I finally had a chance to start going and seeing these places from Saskatchewan to all over Canada. I got to go to Africa, all over Mexico.
And now I'm hunting all across the western landscape, not just in Georgia, hunting whitetails and turkeys and squirrels there. I've only saw one mountain lion in the daylight, now i've spent tons i think ranella said he saw six in his lifetime in in the daylight so what you realize if you see a mountain lion in the daylight now i've seen a lot of mountain lions but they all have been in a tree behind a dog or running behind a dog i'm talking about just you and i glassing looking for nildear and like joe mountain lion right don't them.
You don't see them. And same with wolves.
I've seen two wolves in my life. One was in the Yukon, one was in Alaska in the daylight.
I've heard them countless times. We've been camping in spike tents and you hear the wolves.
I've heard them all across places where wolves exist, but you don't see them. Another perspective is even coyotes.
I have 500, a little over 500 acres I live on in Georgia. And so I noticed that I was finding all kinds of fawns and they did a bunch of studies from University of Georgia, Auburn University, talking about how many deer that coyotes eat, which can't blame them.
Why would you not eat a fawn in the fawning time of year and feed your pups? So I decided, actually actually of all people who got me into trapping it was blake shelton he was trapping in oklahoma loves it and um so i'm like my god if this country singer hosted the american you know or the voice can trap i i gotta get learn about this so i dug deep in 2019 and 20 man i just dug in and just learned a lot more about trapping instead of putting out dirt hole traps or leg hole, dirt hole traps and different things. And so I caught in 2021, I caught like 22 one year, 19 another year, just on 500 acres.
Wow. And if we go hunting tomorrow, now think about 20 dogs that are smaller than a German Shepherd, but a small, you know, canine dog that lives on your property.
Some are passing through. To think that in a four-week period, I could catch 22 coyotes.
That at times, you know, hunting a lot, I would see them time to time. Along that, I also caught seven fox and two bobcats, and I don't know how many coons and possums.
So for people to think that you see this all the time, you don't. I live there and when I'm home, every day I'm up and I'm riding, checking food plots, putting in food plots.
I got bulldozers. I got different things and tractors trying to make the wildlife habitat better to make sure I got better areas for my turkeys to brood, making sure I'm planting resources.
And I don't see these things. And this is all I've ever done.
So the people that live in Aspen are just out of L.A., you know, not trying to throw shade on them. But you don't know, man.
I don't I don't know how to hit a half pipe like Tony Hawk either. So I'm still learning.
And so for me to say that and to think that you can just spend nearly four point eight million, $5 million to reintroduce wolves and think you're going to get tourists to come out there and look at them. These wolves, if they could talk, they're like, these people don't have a clue.
You're never going to see me. Well, not only that, but they took wolves that were already depredating livestock.
Yeah. That's the ones that they captured.
And they moved them to Colorado where they're going to continue to do the same thing. I just read something the other day.
You see they're removing one of those herds?

They're trapping them and removing them because of all the depredation of killing livestock.

Yeah.

Guess what?

If a mountain lion kills 100 deer, one, and then he's, okay, God bless the fact that he

is nature and he's hunting a deer or an elk.

But guess what they do when that starts running low?

They're like, man, that dog looks good. Yeah.
As a cat? yeah we were talking about this yesterday that san francisco when they kill mountain lions in the bay area 50 of their diet is pets ain't that something and all as well all these pita members they're all fine long as it's your dog and your cat yeah you know and but all of a sudden you let a herd of deer come in and eat their forty thousand dollars worth of landscaping and a mountain lion kill their pet they're secretly calling me like hey uh hey bone collector i'm not gonna lie that's a little offensive but we need you so how quiet is your bow and arrow it's like oh yeah hypocrisy is this hypocrisy.com calling me it's like well it's uneducated it's uneducated they just don't know what they're talking about and they don't have any experience in it and again like we talked about the the idea the the mass media idea of a hunter is very negative it's very negative very negative it's it's sad because what you'll find too too, is some of the best people in society. Some of the best people.
I mean, they're really down to earth. I mean, sat around a campfire with somebody that grew up very rural.
Their excitement of talking about everything typically is pretty awesome. Also, their appreciation of hard work.
They very much appreciate. And I think even my dad man he's 71 and i said dad you ain't gonna believe it yeah joe rogan text me and invited me to come up on the show and he said man i like that rogan he said that dude it's funny anytime i talk about my dad i gotta you know go into that impersonation like that joe man he's st stout.
He's stout. He's stout.
Man, he work out a lot. And I'm thinking, how does my dad know the routine? He knows that I like him.
Of course, he loved that you had Trump on and that you had kind of bringing some light to that and give him an opportunity to talk. And so I find across the board board same conversation i had talking to some squirrel

hunters uh talking about cam haynes you know it's like cam is a beast you know he runs and he does this stuff and what brought me and cam back together to to even going out and talking on his podcast you know we grew up close to the same age same trajectory i'm the southern guy he's a guy he's a fitness guy you know i'm kind of a little debbie eater fried chicken collard green but we still figured out a way i always said somebody asked me what's the difference between you and cameron haynes i said cameron haynes runs quickly to the top of the mountain and i sat down and i call them off the mountain i gotta i'm gonna figure out how to communicate with them you know and i said there's a lot of different ways to there's a lot of different ways to skin the cat as they would say but at the end of the day uh i was talking to some squirrel hunters over in alabama and these guys prototypical what you'd pull up looked like billy coleman from where the red fern grows you know uh had had squirrel dogs and and one of the guys uh he had to be in his 60s and uh literally i had some chew in the back he said man you're friends with that cameron haynes and i said i am i said i i've known cameron a long time so man he seemed like a good dude and i don't know why he hit me like this guy i wouldn't expect to mention cameron and so quickly um i contacted cameron i said man has had a cool conversation and so he and i quickly kind of said man why why have we not even hunted together like we've've been at trade shows and stuff and done some stuff. And so that's been really cool for me, an old friend I've known a long time, to get back in camp.
And the conversations are so funny. We get to laughing and cutting up.
And I don't know, it's crazy. Well, I think one of the beautiful things about social media for hunting and podcasts for hunting is that people have an opportunity to hear a completely different perspective about what it is that wasn't available before that.
I got into hunting because I started watching Spirit of the Wild. Ted Nugent.
I love Ted. That's when I got fascinated with it.
And then I watched Ronella's original show, which, oh, God, I can't remember the name of it. He had a show.
He wasn't Meat Eater, though. No, no, no.
Before Meat Eater. Yeah.
God can't remember the name of it uh he had a show what meat eater though no no no before meat eater yeah god i forget the name of it but his show it didn't last very long but i thought it was really interesting and uh i knew helen cho because helen cho who worked with ranella on um that show she also worked with bourdain and so you know i I was friends with Bain and so i got introduced to them through that and helen got steve on the show he didn't even know what a podcast was he did he was like what are we doing here we went to we were filming out of the ice house in pasadena at that time the ice house the comedy club in pasadena and that's where we had our studio and so uh it was ranella sitting there he's like oh kind of a little dismissive of this like what is this nonsense yeah and then now he's got one of the biggest podcasts in the space he's done a phenomenal job man he's great he has i i was uh when ranella had reached out and i had a chance to be on his podcast you know and i i would say i'm a very secure person but at the same time i know i'm country you know i know i'm the you know for lack of better words the guy that you know i kill a lot of stuff you know i ain't no way to say it any better i could say harvest pluck take but at the end of the day you know i grew up where in georgia we could kill 10 deer legally a year so mostly with a bow and then alabama the neighboring state you know you could kill a buck and a doe a day for a long time in alabama and there was people that tried to do it it wasn't ever did you get you a good one this year like

yep 47 like what like yeah i you know and so a lot of food at first i was you know when i first

started meeting and hanging with ronella i thought man i hope you don't think i'm just this old red

neck crazy dude that you know and then once we've become friends it gets back to the whole

how everything is so much tighter that you realize and how we all have so much respect for each other in different lanes of bringing it and it's just like anything I mean you know you got different players on a team all playing for the same team but they all have a different skill set and so we all grow up a little different and so again I just assumed growing up in my small little area just out of Manchester Woodbury Georgia I really think the area I was from was called Booger Bottom Georgia and I just thought well I Booger Bottoms are everywhere well you find out there is a lot of different little names there are no lights there but I just really assumed everybody did and I was just completely devastated when I went to the city and you know and I'd tell somebody like man you know what do you do it's like man I work for a company we do hunting shows T&N you know I'm so proud thinking man I should be able to pass out a business card and meet a girl with this you know like oh my god you're a killer you kill Bambi and it just bro it just completely devastated because you had never been around people who were anti-hunting i'd never had i didn't know it existed i mean i was that naive i did not know how old were you when you first encountered people that were anti-hunting i was in my early 20s wow i was in my early 20s and how hard was it to wrap your head around that it blew me away and people that eat meat too by the way right yeah i was really weird. It really hit me when I started traveling.
I literally was like a kid that was just getting up every morning for Christmas. I was having a chance to work for Bill Jordan, and I had met him through winning a turkey calling contest.
And he asked me, him and David Blanton, I can't say enough great things about Bill and David. David Blanton believed in me when, I mean, he always believed in me so much.
And he much and he said hey man we'd love for you to help guide hunters and back then everything around hunting was media outdoor life field and stream so there wasn't any hunting shows but then about that same time tnn after these nascar races introduced an outdoor block which if you go back and look people like jackie bushman uh at the time what year was this one this would have been for me it'd been 90 it'd have been a 92 or three or four somewhere right in there did they even have range finders back then no range finders i bought the first one i'd ever seen it was a bush nail and i still work with bush now thing looked like a car battery literally you know i had safety straps i had like chains i like Strongest Man contest to hold this thing up. But you had the little ones you could roll, and it didn't even tell you when the temperature changes, it's going to give you an inaccurate, it's going to change with the weather.
But, no, it was, you know, just guessing. Was it a laser range fighter? It was.
The first ones was like a roller. You rolled two things.
I forget how exactly that worked, but it come and it gave you basically a rough estimate. It would be like 40 yards.
And then Bushnell, to my knowledge, come out with one. It was a bigger one.
It looked, like I said, it kind of looked like a small battery. It was big, and it had a laser on it, and you could range it, and it gave you the yardage.
And obviously it wasn't angle compensating. It didn't have any of the arc, the angle range compensation, had any of that.
And the first person I ever saw that even talked about that was Chuck Adams. I was videoing with him back in those TNN days.
We should explain to people, like, angle compensation is like an arrow is quicker going downhill. So if you're shooting uphill or downhill, the angle, you have to gauge how fast the arrow's going to go, the feet per second, based on the angle.
So if it might look like it's 50 yards as the crow flies, your rangefinder might say 42. Correct.
And you've got to put your sight at 42 yards, otherwise you'll shoot right over its back. And it works.
Yeah, it works really well. It's unbelievable.
And that, to me, I didn't know existed. Have you ever fucked around with those Garmin sights? No, I haven't.
I've always wanted to try one. It's great in theory and great when it works.
So when it works. Yeah, I've had a problem with it a couple of times and I gave up on them.
And I'm hoping they're going to get better. And then they they outlawed them in Utah I tried to bring it to Utah a couple years ago and they had passed a law maybe last year and the best thing about it though it's like a red dot you get that dot you have a clear sight picture no post see just that dot just that dot on the vitals it's amazing and the the fact that you could go to full draw and just press a button to range and then say maybe the animal moves 15 yards to the left just hit it again press it again and you get a range and you have a perfect shot but some people think that that's cheating that's but it's the same it's just taking a step out instead of picking your range finder off your bino pouch and checking it and then changing your site and then drawing back

with this you're doing it right from draw so from full draw you can just keep getting ranges and then you can also hit it once and then a second time and you'll get pins so you get 20 to 80 nice yeah so even if you so then all your pins will come up exactly based on that but if you just want an accurate range.

You get that one button

press and it'll give you exact range and you know it's based on everything is compensated into the sight itself so angle compensation is built into the sight itself you put in the speed of your arrow so if you're shooting 285 feet per second exactly exactly it's all factored into your Bo it's pretty incredible i liked that a lot because uh and i think i've heard you even mention this what i what i love about archery is obviously you got these windows everything ain't just sitting out in the yard where you're shooting right shooting through the wood especially if you're out there elk hunting you got these windows and um there was a site years ago that i remember and it worked in theory great but it was simple it wasn't like the range or the garmin but they had these fiber optics that were glued to the middle of a basically of a piece of glass that went into the site housing so you would buy this glass housing that okay if your bow was 280 feet per second or 290 or 300 320 and your pins were preset so you went and got your top pin dialed in so then you had all these but your sight viewing was good the problem was when it rained or if it got dirty foggy yeah and what i did like about that is uh is the fact that the reason i've always liked pins multiple pins is the fact that i could see my whole sight picture where my air is going from 20 all the way out to even if I'm shooting 80. In this case, most of my sights are set up from say 20 to 60 or 20 to 70.
I try to put as many pins on my sight as I can. A lot of people don't like it because they think it's cluttered, but once I've mentally got used to it, if I range a bull, say 65, when I pull back without having doing any other calculations, I put my 60-yard pin on that bull.
It's in the clear. And then quickly, now it's like a memory of going back.
And I quickly go back up to my 20-yard pin. And I'm looking all the way down through and estimating, is this arrow going to arc through? But basically, from 20 all the way out to my desired where I want to hit, I can see the arc of my arrow based on my pin set good so so you know if there's a gap in the tree i know the gap but i know if i know if i'm at 60 holding dead on that clear spot but i got a limb at 30 and my 30 yard pins in the middle of it i know like oh crap i'm gonna hit that so now i can just squat down so that's why i don't like as much a single pin technology and then quickly what i like about the pins it's clutter it's kind of old-fashioned but i do like that a lot from that standpoint of trajectory of of the ability to to kind of kill uh or to take and fill a tag and um cam and i talked a lot about those things we talked a lot about the release i definitely like uh that know, I like the handheld from a, if I really want to try to haunt in and be a little more disciplined and kind of the feel it go, not feel it go off and shoot with completely surprise.
I like that. But I don't think that traditionally works as great for hunting because of the fact I think you do have to know and to make that arrow go right now if you consistently have to even in Texas I mean we're shooting animals at you know 20 to 30 yards those deer and um sometimes the opportunity sometimes they walk in they're they're dogging a doe they're coming in every deer ain't coming in just to eat corn or eating a food plot they're coming in they got one thing on their mind and that's you know mama is ready and so they're coming in grunting so that deer runs he stops and you got to be at full draw know he's 27 come back and you got to send it right now you know what i describe it as the difference between practicing free throws and basketball 100 that's it stephan curry yeah it's not it it is i mean you don't get a chance to set up and have a surprise shot.
100%. That's a great way to make it.
Yeah, that's really what it is. I think practicing, sure.
But I think there's moments where you've got to make that sucker go off. But then.
Oh, man, yeah. There's great hunters like Levi Morgan who hunts with a hinge.
Oh, dude. I mean, just an animal.
Yeah. He's probably the most decorated archer that I know.
I mean, that dude. Maybe of all like ulmer gillingham all those guys are heroes of mine i mean like i very much look up to them and if i can ever pull them aside i just wear them out trying to learn you know right and uh but levi is right there dude far as winning and what he knows and he you know another thing about levi i got to give him credit that dude is a cold-blo, man.
He is a great hunter, too. Sometimes I don't translate.
I know some people that are great tournament. Right.
I mean, 3D tournament, ASA IBO winners. Right.
But it doesn't go over into the ability to just field tags. Well, it's free throws.
It's free throws. Free throws versus basketball.
No doubt. It really is.
It really is. You're standing weird.
One leg is down. One leg is up.
You're on the side of a hill. You've got to cant your bow a little bit.
You lean your bubble into the wind. There's a lot of shit going on.
A lot. A lot of shit going on.
And then you've got the nerves. You never get completely over that.
People ask me all the time, do you ever get nervous or get buck fever? Like, man, almost every time. I think that's when, if some of that, yes, you get good at kind of somewhat like stage fright i saw a clip of elvis press i thought it was so unique i saw a clip of elvis presley uh the other day on this youtube clip and he he was completely in panic and this was like right in the prime of his career and he was walking around and and it was a narrator saying yes elvis notoriously would get just afraid every a fray.
And I'm like, this is the king. Right.
But he was just pacing, and he was being short with a couple of people. And anyway, he walks out there, and I'm sure he crushes it.
But I think it's similar to probably how some of those football players running out on the field. There's no way you've got all this clicking in your head.
Like, oh, man, I've got to remember, Bill Lachek has told me that he's introduced this new offense. I not sure i don't know if i can read i'm gonna read this offense i think hunting similar is to where everything has to click but you still get that now is my opportunity yes and dude it still is overwhelming and then to control it and then when you fit that arrow through that window and then you can pick up the phone and call your family say baby doll don't buy no steak because i'm bringing it home it's uh it's it's it's again it's just an uh it's not like you want to disrespect the animal but you just achieve something grocery shopping in the wild is what you do yeah yeah i think it's something that's very difficult to do that you care a lot about and anytime there's something that's very difficult to do that you care a lot about.
And any time there's something that's very difficult to do that you care a lot about, you're going to get nervous. 100%.
And especially with hunting, there's one moment where you pull that trigger. This one moment.
Yeah. You have this one moment.
So you've been practicing. You've been preparing.
You've been packing your gear, getting ready, all for this millisecond in time. You release that arrow and you watch right in there.
And it's very difficult to master. I don't think you ever master it.
You become proficient at it. You become good at it.
But even the best hunters make bad shots sometimes. Absolutely.
Animal moves. The wind takes the arrow in a weird direction.
It hits a branch going in. You see it all the time.
It's not an easy thing to do. So, of course, you're going to have those nerves.
But that's part of the reward of being successful is that if you can get through that nervousness, and I think it helps you in everything you do in life. I think anytime you do something really hard, very difficult, I think that ability to overcome that difficult scenario helps you with everything in life.
100%. And when it comes to archery too, you're on that ragged line to where in your subconscious, you can go from, you can be the hero or you can be zero that quick.
All of that time, the money, the energy, the time that you did step away from the Netflix special in your case, because, hey, I'm elk hunting. You know, you got to somehow communicate with your buddies.
Oh, man, I missed. Or worse, I made a bad shot.
Let's let them lay. And so everything that you look forward to that whole year, you could let yourself down.
So it's a very individual, lonely feeling. Yeah.
And you can't think about that before you pull the trigger. You can never think, i hope i don't make a bad shot because you'll make a bad shot you can't and i'm always is you always are you always positively thinking when you're like i'm about to put it on him yeah are you thinking positive i have to i do too yeah i think you have to i was interested you know i was talking i mentioned chuck adams chuck me that he did that exact opposite.
He said sometimes I would say, hey, I'm going to do my best. I'll probably fail.
It's almost like Mr. Rogers neighborhood.
I said, you're kidding me. And to me, this guy's the beast.
And the only other person in history I've ever heard that there was a guy named Kenny Bartram is a motocross. He was the first guy to ever do a backflip on a motorcycle,

and he landed it. And so he went hunting with us one time in Texas, and I said, Kenny,

how, I mean, how much weed do you got to smoke to get on a bike and think you can do a flip

for the first time? He said, man, I just always thought I'd probably kill myself, but I'd try it.

I said, so you never thought you would land it? He said, no, every time I try a trick,

I think I'm about to wad it up. I said, god how do you how do you do that and i'm thinking about me and my buddy boo bishop building a bmx track and building a little something we jumped over and thinking i'd be scared they're like right i could do this just jump over a little ramp i never thought yeah jumping the ramp like i'm probably gonna crash i always would think i could and then when i crashed i'd be you know like surprised like i can't believe that that hurt you know so chuck and kenny was the only guys i've ever thought that thought that you know that's a weird psychology i don't think that's the best way to approach it me either i'm really good at it is there ever a comedian that walks out like hey i'm probably gonna bomb but i'm gonna do the best i can or i can.
I don't know. I just always thought that was true.
Sometimes people talk like that, but I think they're fishing for compliments. For their own self.
Yeah. I think, man, I hope this works well.
And then friends are like, come on, man, you're fucking hilarious. You're going to kill it.
They might be like fishing for compliments. Yeah.
Kind of like you're tired and it's third down and it's like, dude, come on, man. I'm going to be open.
Hit me. You muster through.
I know you're limping. Hit me.
I'll go. Yeah, okay.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you need a little of that sometimes.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think these experiences that we have that when we relate it to people, it's one of the only places, like in podcasts, the only places where you can hear it this way. And I think that's what we're battling against we're battling against the media representations of hunting which is almost entirely negative and these perceptions that people have that hunters are cruel and then then there's this term trophy yeah trophy like that that's the mule deer that i killed with ronnell that's the first day that's that's awesome i love that and you know you could say that this is not a trophy mule deer it's not a very big mule deer as far as mule deers go this is you know mature buck but he's not a big one oh he's but he's beautiful to me this is this is where it all started and this is a trophy this is not if you went to a trophy unit and you shot a deer like this people like what are you doing why you doing? Why did you shoot this? Why didn't you hold out for a big mature one? But the term trophy gets thrown around and unfortunately has a negative connotation.
It does. I think Ted puts it the best way, Ted Nugent.
Yep. He says, it's all the things.
It's food, it's trophy, it's sport. It's all those things together.
You know, I don't think of it as a sport like you said. I think the term sport, it's sports are awesome.
Don't get me wrong. But it's not significant enough.
I agree. For what hunting is.
100%. I agree with that.
You're taking a life. You're feeding yourself with that life.
It's more powerful than sport. And that's why I think when you call it this sport of hunting, I'm like, I don't like that term.
I agree with that, too. As a matter of fact, if there's any negative thing, I think the hunting industry and even TV shows that we produce can put a negative vibe potentially on trying to kill these big trophy animals.
Don't get me there's nothing wrong with it i mean you you're hunting utah in places we get a chance to hunt absolutely you're looking for in that case a seven to eight year old bull uh right you know sometimes they might score 320 to 370 at the end of the day the trophy is for sure a mature animal but you also got to keep in perspective especially if up where I did, where literally there's, you know, 10 guys shared a 300-acre property. They just want to deer hunt.
And they're trying to get away. Keep in mind, they're still managing a family.
They're still dealing with the economy. They're still dealing with everyday strife of, man, how am I going to get off work, still get my kid to soccer practice or football practice? My wife is pissed off.
I hadn't even took her to Applebee's in the last three months you know and it's like I didn't take the kids to you know Disney World and the only family picture we got in front of the Shoney's big boy so man what am I gonna do but in the back of my mind's like I sure would like to get off maybe Saturday I could spend a little time and go up to the hunt lease and hang out, maybe get a chance to shoot a deer. They're not necessarily thinking I got to kill a deer to put it in Pope and Young and Arboon and Crockett.
They're looking, it's more than just a hunt. It is a getaway.
It's a, I call it, it's a, it's a cheapest, you know, anti-depressant presence you can get on to where you can clear your mind. You can get away.
Hopefully you can turn your phone off, a tree stand or a saddle whatever it is whether you hunt public or private and we miss that in the hunting industry so many times and there's people that are literally busting their ass for their family it's not a sport to hunt but it's therapeutic they grew up doing it to be able to sit around a fire with other men and women sometimes and get away to to cleanse yourself of everything that's going on. And unfortunately, I think that's what drives people sometimes crazy, even in the city.
Sometimes I walked around Austin today early, had me a nice breakfast, and I just walked around and ended up running to this children's network that was trying to raise money where you can kind of adopt a kid and give them so much a month. So, man, I did.
everybody i just said hey man what y'all selling over here like oh man no only people don't come up and talk to us we have to sell them as a guy from europe and and a sweet girl that was you could tell that born and raised right around here anyway with that said i ended up you know i said man i want to pledge some money every month so i picked me out a kid kid in Guatemala. And so anyway, with that said, about that time, here comes a street person.
And he is cussing me and her. And that fell out.
I mean, the most vile words you could, I mean, cussing like a sailor, as they would say metaphorically. And I'm like, man, what's wrong with this guy? So I said, y'all get this a lot, you know.
And it was just before, not far from when I come over here. And the girl said, yeah yeah we do get that a lot and the guy with the british accent or the european accent said you know we get it quite a bit you know he said but i think there's a bad batch of something right now and i'm like oh really he said i you know he said man people have been really mean lately they've been yelling and cussing and screaming at us and well by the time a guy comes back MFers, I know everything, and everybody's retarded.
And I'm like, and he's right there, and I'm at the point to where, man, I ain't scared, and you can tell they experience it more than I do. And I'm sitting there watching this guy, and then all of a sudden, he's just yelling and screaming.
I said, hey, buddy. I said, just so you know, we on your side, man.
We love you, bro. I said, you're right.
You know a lot more than people realize. You know a hell of a lot more than people realize.
And I said, you cool. I'm on your team.
So are they. And he said, and it was crazy.
Joe, he looked at him and said, thank you. He left.
And it hit me. It was so weird.
I got a little off track when I was talking about hunting. But I thought i thought man the dude don't even really want to be understood he wants to be heard right and i thought how ironic that i'm going to speak with joe today and anyway the girl and the guy says i've never seen that happen like that just got diffused you treated him like a human yeah and i said and and sometimes it's almost like uh you know, you know, I've never figured out completely a lady, my wife.
Sometimes it's always a game. And I've learned that I don't know that I'll ever understand exactly what it is she wants, but I know she wants me to hear and pay attention.
And I think that's what society's doing, whether you're a hunter, whether you're from the city. but overall what I have found whether you live in the city or the country whether you get a chance to go to a rave or go to the mothership uh which i hope to go by there or not i just want to check out the joint you know and and and so anyway when it's all said and done there's something about the peace and tranquility that you can refuel out in the woods and it brings everything to a to a focal point and uh and you can be still and be quiet and it brings everything back.
And so in reality, it's not about people going to think of you different if you shoot the biggest, highest scoring animal that you can put into the Boe Pignon or the Boone and Crockett record books. I think those of us, once we learn to respect each other and love each other's goals, that yeah, if I know that your goal is to shoot, say, a three ninety bull that one day, you know, I'll get a call and you're going to be hyperventilate.
And you're like, I just did it. Like, what? Like, dude, I swear, you know, for people who don't understand why that's so interesting to us.
It's because they're the most difficult ones to get because the older, older wiser ones that's that's and also yeah when you look at it from a conservation standpoint those are the ones that you want to hunt because those are the ones who spread their genes and they're probably about to get taken out by nature anyway correct if you get an eight-year-old elk or a nine-year-old elk or a 10-year-old elk how many years do they have left i shot one 10-year-old his teeth were worn down almost nothing just an old tank how much time did he have left if not most likely he was going to either starve to death or freeze to death or get stabbed in a fight with another elk he'd get stabbed and wind up mountain lion jump on him mountain lion jump on him or freeze to death or you know a number of other very very cruel endings that i mean i shot that elk at 40 yards it was a perfect shot he was down at 15 seconds it was no tracking so it's like that elk died the best way yes he did possible yes he did he's not he's not they don't live forever and become angels and that is a very good death compared to a pack of wolves or mountain lions starting to eat on you sometimes before they're even deceased. It happens all the time.
There's so many videos of that. Especially bears.
Oh, bears are brutal, man. Bears are very brutal and selfish animals, man.
Isn't it crazy? Hunting bears is the thing you get the most hate for. Oh, everybody thinks they're cuddly.
I mean, I don't know if it's a Winnie the Pooh type of thing. 100%.
But it's like... Teddy bears and yogi and all that shit.
We're all distorted. Like when people say, you've hunt bears.
I go, I've eaten bears. I've eaten three bears.
They're delicious. Yeah.
Like what? You eat bears? I'm like, I'll make you some bear sausage and I'll tell you what, you will fucking love it. Especially if I don't tell you what it is you'll go what is this this is great it's like it seems like beef but different and then if they knew how a bear's personality was they want i mean you want to kill them oh they they'll kill their own kids oh yeah and eat to breed mama to eat them i mean it's just a it's a brutal world and i you know i there was things before i even had a chance to hunt that I recognized just domestically.
You know, I'm raising rabbits. You know, those rabbits would sometimes kill the little baby rabbits for the right and opportunity to breed again real quick with the female in the pen.
You know, and I realized my papa said, you've got to separate them. That buck rabbit killed that.
I'm like, man, I didn't know that. You know, I'm 10, 11 years old trying to figure out how to raise some rabbits or watching hogs you know uh pigs it ain't always had on a raised floor pin he'd had raise up a few hogs man them jokers are trying to kill each other mean you know who does it dolphins dolphins are they brutal like that dolphins we think of them sweet intelligent they commit infanticide all the time what dolphin females have to do is they have to breed with as many males as possible because when a female dolphin has babies, she has to take care of that baby for about six years.
So when the male dolphins recognize a female with babies and they don't know that female, those are not his babies, he'll kill those babies so that female dolphin will breed. So he wants to breed her.
So she will breed with everybody possible so nobody knows who the babies are. And so since they're intelligent, they understand that they've bred with that female before.
So that could be their babies so they don't kill them. So basically all the dolphins are hoes.
All hoes. Yeah, that's how they have to be.
Otherwise, their babies get killed. So they've adopted this polyamorous strategy to try to kill, to keep the male dolphins from killing the babies.
Well, that's amazing. I mean, you watch the breeding season during elk, like you was talking about, those elk fighting.
And ironically, they never, they never get things confused. Those males are looking for the females.
The females know that I'm going to breed with this dude and the strongest survive. And a lot of people say, oh, they're really not trying to kill each other.
No, you wasn't out there. I didn't watch this on Nat Geo.
They're trying to murder each other. Oh, I've seen some amazing, epic elk fights.
It's some of the greatest things to see in nature. These big 800-pound animals running at each other with swords growing out of their heads it's gonna crash it sounds like an old like some kind of scottish fight back in the 1400s like a sword fight almost it's like cracking baseball bats together against each other and you hear it loud you're like oh shit they're fighting and you go over there and watch it oh it's amazing it's it's crazy to watch the brutality of, you know, you'll find them occasionally dead.
Yeah. Because one of them has stabbed one.
We found one. I think I have video of it on my phone.
He had a, we were hunting him. He had a six-inch tine sticking out of his neck.
Holy cow. It was broken off, sticking out of his neck.
And he's still running his cows and bugling. I'm sure I have it.
i had we had the same similar thing in new mexico this year nick munt who's hunts with one of my best friends we hunt a lot together he shot a good bull like first morning i was calling it was classic man bull come in he shot it and we were caping him out there on the side of the hill and and all of a sudden look here man he had a he had a tine again about four inches and it was broke off just right, all pussed up. Yeah, nasty.
And this dude still come in. Yeah, I'm going to send Jamie this picture or the video because it's so crazy.
It's so cool, though, to see that and experience it. And I think it's sad that most people don't know.
And there's a lot of very smart people that, in some they think it might be a little beneath them to to understand what maybe hunting is truly about other than maybe what they see on a walt disney movie and uh i think that is definitely kind of fueled me to be able to help educate and talk about those things and i know ranella has done an amazing job of introducing that too and there's a lot of great ambassadors we got right now doing that yeah there it's a great time to be educated about this and it's a great time and there's a lot of people that have gotten really interested in hunting from those kind of conversations with ronnell and with cam no doubt and how did you eventually get started doing it because like that's every young guy's dream that has ever hunted like oh my god imagine like making a living doing that like that's what i would love to do oh man how did you how did you pull that off one of one of the coolest stories actually and only in america you don't hear the story in turkmenistan um but uh you know i i grew up obviously like i said rule i love to hunt and fish um very simple my dad was a contractor so i really thought that that i wanted to maybe work with my dad or do what he did hands on labor i knew i didn't want to be in office anyway i'll try to keep it short but basically what i ended up doing is just enthralled my mom passed away when i was young 16 and so my dad and i become more like brothers and my dad he had a ninth education, hardest working man I've ever been around. And and so anyway, we love to hunt and fish and become therapeutic.
And so we got I got a turkey calling and had won some contests and met some of, you know, my turkey calling heroes. And that's where I met Bill Jordan and David Blanton.
And I started guiding when I was probably 19. and then one thing led to another, started working full-time there at Realtree.
And just as a guide, as a camera guy, they had that show on TNN. And so I was just literally camera jockeying it from skinning deer, guiding turkey hunters.
And it was David Blanton who said, man, you know, there's a lot more you could do. And so I kind of, by default, Joe, how I got lucky too,

was when I hooked up with those guys, David Blanton and Bill,

I got to do some of the turkey calling tips because I had won some contests.

And so even back on TNN, I was this young kid, and they were like,

hey, we need a tip.

You know, the TNN tip of the week, you know, brought to you by field line packs,

you know, something like, hey, man, I'm Michael Waddy.

I want to talk to you about yelping at turkeys. I ain't know nothing about so it was never top of mind like one day right i'll be hunting on tv i was just thinking man i love this enough that maybe i can do that i can work for this company and i remember they paid me a hundred dollars a day to go guide somebody turkey hunting and i told my dad's man i'm about to get rich and listen to this they'll pay you this thing called mileage i had no beat-up toyota truck four-cylinder i said dad that them suckers will pay me a a mileage i forgot what it is but heck if i drive an hour i make money you know they pay you and then if you stop at a convenience store you keep your receipt and they'll pay for your snacks uh everything i couldn't believe that because i grew up with my dad working you know like oh timmy just fell off the roof like well call his let's call his wife tell him come get him and then my dad be like you all right no oh i think i broke my leg hell you know it's like oh dang well you're probably gonna be here tomorrow are you like you know i don't i doubt it i mean it was just rough almost cowboy shit you know and so i couldn't believe this you know and uh And so one one thing led to another and that was in the early 90s uh right out of high school and uh i'm 51 now and that was in the early 90s and in 1994 and 5 everything started heating up and in 96 david blanton offered me a full-time job to work in production slash guide so surreal it was able to make a living doing this thing that you love when no one even thought it was a job when you were a kid.
Yeah. It was not a thing you aspired to.
No. And my family took it hard.
My grandma and my uncles were like, I might as well just got on crack and been on the street. They're like, I'd went to heating and air school and got a degree and worked a year with Barringer's Heat and Cooling out of Zeblin, Georgia.
And I had me a truck, had my name on it, you know, Michael, you know, and had me my refrigeration tools. And every Christmas, my dad, boy, I got you another flaring kit.
I mean, just blue collar culture. And all of a sudden, you know, I'm coming in telling the family, like, hey, I don't know if I'm going to keep doing the heat and air deal.
You know, like, what? Like, you got a truck, son. You got your own uniform.
You know, you got benefits. I'm like, yeah, but there's this camouflage company want me to take Dale Earnhardt turkey hunting.
And my dad was the only one that got it. Everybody else is like it was an intervention.
Like I'd go to Christmas and like, hey, nephew, let me pull you aside. Now, you know, you can't make a living at this hunting and fishing thing.
You know, like, well, I don't know, but I'm young and man, this would be really cool. I love this more than anything.
But it was kind of that whole situation of. It wasn't a job before.
It wasn't a job. And I was trusting them, but i was sitting there thinking like i'm pretty sure bill jern's rich i mean he's i saw him with a mercedes he had a mercedes benz and uh matter of fact there's a real funny story about that mercedes benz uh but i i couldn't believe it and so my grandma was like son when you get tired of this just go have fun with it but come back to it almost no different than if you're a young kid like i'm going to nashville i want to play guitar and sing right maybe i can be the next luke bryan yeah and somebody in the family's like oh when it gets right he'll come back jump in the family business start putting these shingles on the roof yeah he'll get back into sheetrock and just give him a chance hell he was one of the best concrete guys i knew that kid would work he run a bull float like a son of a bitch, you know.
And so that was me.

And all of a sudden, they offered me a full-time job.

It wasn't a lot of money.

And I remember going back and saying, you know, hey, they got all these things, 401K.

They got benefits.

I got eye and dental.

And I get to go on all these epic trips.

And I met amazing people, hunting with people that I was just shell-shocked i remember i met leonard skyndard band in a nascar suite one time the maddest ever got at bill jordan maddest i ever got it of course you know ronnie was had passed on and half the members but it was uh johnny van zant and it was uh rossington and i'm sitting there a redneck kid i'm at lanta motor speedway like i can't believe it there's mark martin's wife and i'm like man i a redneck kid. I'm at Atlanta Motor Speedway.
Like, I can't believe it. There's Mark Martin's wife.
And I'm like, man, I have made it. And I'm over with chicken fingers.
And, bro, all of a sudden I look. The door opens.
And there was just people in there. And there is the Leonard Skinner band.
Looked just like, you know, like what I pictured. And I'm like, oh, my God.
You know, I'm freaking out. And Bill said, hey, ain't that your band? band i said that's not only a band that's leonard skinner and bill jordan said what are they saying i said i swear to god i ain't never hit my balls but i'm about to knock you out you know are you kidding me and i'll never forget i went over there and i i was just you know i chance to meet them.
But so many people I met, and I couldn't believe it. And one thing led to another, and really the biggest break I had was David Blanton, who was like a big brother, I mean, like a father.
And he was just such a good guy, good Christian guy, good hunter. Outdoor Channel was just coming on.
Outdoor Channel was really kind of coming on. But but at the time you know the the kind of beat your chest kind of pride was the fact that you could be on espn and our tnn and then tnn had been through a situation where i think it was viacom had some big merger that was part of the mtv thing and so they quickly uh through their kind of culturally said hey we need to kind of do away with this hunting thing these guys are killing stuff and it become the nashville it was the nashville network then it becomes the national network then it becomes spike tv and so everything moved over all the the big sunday night block move over to espn but you couldn't show impact well about that time they started the outdoor channel on cable tv they were looking for distribution and so it was david blanton he said michael we need to come up with a cool hook and we need to create a show over on outdoor channel and so getting back to meeting these people and what i found it was fascinating and it's just the same with these conversations you have these people that you just look up to yeah you meet some people that are interesting and weird, but for the most part, you're like, wow, these guys are super cool, super talented.
And that's what I was finding when I would run into a country singer. I remember Mark Chestnut sitting around and drinking whiskey and him playing the guitar and singing Hank Williams Jr.
song, running into Bo Cephas, running into, you know, to Leonard Skinner and all those guys. I'm like, man, these guys are so down to earth and cool.
And I realized that there was more to this hunting than just this staunch, you know, here we go with the Encinitas Ranch. Today we're hunting the mesquite flats of Encinol, you know.
Right, right. The coyotes abundant.
There's a big buck around the corner. The narrator.
Yeah, and it was just like, at the time, it was classic. It was so sanitized.
Everybody was starched. Yeah.
You go to a hunting to a hunting show everybody had on khakis i mean it's almost like it was a facade and um and i remember telling david blanton i said i think what we're missing is the the culture and the fun and everybody was very serious and you should be serious if you're going to go take a bow and arrow or rifle and take the life of a wild animal but the camp life was so amazing and we'd have different personalities different nfl athletes we would have comedians people like jeff foxworthy and i was just so pleased that these people that i adored and was big fans of was people that you could sit around and and have a glass of sweet tea or a cold beer and and just laugh and they were as real possibly more entertaining in person kind of you talk about theo people ask he's really funny well you should have should have been with us at this ufc fight we couldn't even watch the fight the guys you know cracking us up and so i told david i said i think most of these people if we could do a show kind of document and just the camp life and the reality of how much fun you have i think we could sell that fun and so david said do it he. He said, matter of fact, you host it.
And I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not coming in here to pitch you for me to host a show. Behind the scenes, I'll guide, I'll run camera, I'll help edit, produce.
He'd sent me to Maine to this International Film and Art School to learn how to edit on nonlinear, the first Avid. Oh, wow.
So I'm up there like, dude, I'm big. I mean, I got my business card.
Like, yeah, I work for Realtree, you know, on TNN, you know wow i'm up there like dude i'm big i mean i got my business card like yeah i work for real tree you know out on tnn you know i'm i'm over there and i found out that was where it really hit me that a lot of people didn't like hunting like oh my god you kill animals and i had all these beta tapes and i remember i had dale earnhardt killing a deer on there and i told the instructor i said i need to learn how to put this in the computer and build a hunt out of it because everything was a bB roll editing. And I knew how to do that pretty good.
I said, but I need to learn how to do it when it's nonlinear. He said, oh, my God, we never we struggle to get footage.
Y'all got these eighty thousand dollar cameras because Bill was one of the first people to buy these really high dollar beta cameras that was out videoing with and putting them in the wild. And so anyway, as that as I showed the footage, he said, man, can we use this and let the class use this footage as a project to build storylines because i had the cutaways you know back then you'd you'd shoot the animal you'd video that then you'd go back okay push your safety off like now like you pretend you'd pretend so it's like a reenactment now let's go back and build the pre-hunt you know and it'd be like dale Earnhardt walking through the forest with his gargoyles on or however, and he's camouflaged like, yeah, we're going down here to a ridge flat, a lot of acorns up there.
Well, the deer has been dead a long time ago, obviously, by the time we shot that. And so he loved that, the instructor, because it gave us a chance to put the storyline.
And I thought, man, I'm going to be the hero. You know, all these little girls up here in Maine, and I ain't never seen a lot of people with purple hair and stuff.
And I could tell it was kind of that cool hippie trend. And it was artsy.
But in my mind, I'm like, I'm just having a good time. And anyway, dude, immediately, Joe, it become a protest.
There was two or three people stood up in the class. Like, we're not using this.
We cannot. We will walk out.
These animals are getting dead. If you can prove these animals were not harmed.
And I like no they're all dead they ain't i mean they're dead i mean the and finally i had a like a little bit of a meltdown because that was one of the first times that it really hit me where i had a mass of people saying you know almost felt like the antichrist because i'm the guy killing deer and i thought it was gonna be the opposite i was ready to name drop like look i got dale earnhardt i videoed shoot it right i was ready to name drop and it just all you just had never experienced anti-hunting never and um so i learned that and then one thing led to another i remember went to the instructor i said man look i i'm a little bit bothered you know it is what it is but even if you have to teach me out of class i need to learn how to do this i i'm not doing i'm a student but i come up here my employer sent me up here i gotta learn how to do this so i came back pretty efficient as a non-linear editor all of it didn't have any desire to know that that's what i wanted to do but i was just wanting to you know sweep the warehouse you want me to edit you want me to take somebody hunting you need me to put up a fence skin a buck you know whatever and then when david gave me that opportunity to do real tree road trips back in the day it was in 2003 it aired we shot it in 2002 that's when everything for me because it was all about personality it was all about having fun and that's kind of we kind of come up with the tagline this is a different kind of hunting show well you were the first guy to bring fun and personality to hunting television. Oh, yeah.
We tried so hard. You know, we just wanted to be real.
It looked like you were having a good time with your friends. It wasn't this stuffy presentation of, like, hunting, like, here he goes in the wild of Montana.
He won't go far. Where grizzly bears abound.
Yeah. Hunting for the elusive mule deer.
Exactly. The Bollarius Whitetail uses secondary scrapes as he approaches his staging area.
Exactly. You were having a good time.
You were laughing and cutting up. And I think that's what made you famous in that world.
It's like you were representative of what people really liked. It's just someone having a good time and enjoying themselves, which is really what a lot of the hunting is.
It's a lot of bonding and camaraderie. Like the camp time is almost as fun as the hunting time, you know, and you're all just sort of winding down at the end of the day, having a good time together, relaxing and telling stories and laughing.
It was. And even to this day, it's kind of still where we kind of settle in.
And it's like, you know, honestly, I'm not really trying to out hunt anybody, but we'll try to out fun everybody. And so if you if you come to camp, you know, and this myself, big old T-bone, you know, he lost his leg.
So he's not hunting with us as much. He can't he can't get around to cancer.
He lost his leg. And then but Nick and I, I mean, we're going to have a good time.
And if you desire to get serious, which we do encourage, hey, it's time to buckle down. There's a time for fun.
There's a time to hone it in. But we just try our best to make it fun.
And I've learned that if you do that and you can make friends, that's the biggest form of the trophy you'll ever get. Yes, that's a trophy.
But the stories you got with sitting with Rinella and the people around the camp and that experience,

you meet people from all over the country, in our case, the world.

And the next thing you know, it's like even more special.

And so I know people, I say it a lot, I know people that's got some amazing trophy rooms,

but they're lonely, they dusty, and they really ain't made a lot of friends

because they were so beating their chest to kill the next biggest thing yeah that they forgot that the trophy is relationships and the adventure and yes inevitably this this deer that's hanging on the wall that your family has enjoyed over a period of sometimes a year sometimes it'll take you a year or two to eat elk right a full elk It's a lot of meat. But I don't know, man.
It's just an amazing journey. And I mean, I never felt like I was that talented other than the fact I just had a lot of good work ethic my dad put in me.
And I was really had a passion for it. And I didn't have really any weird opposition pulling me away from it.
It pulled me toward it. But growing up so rural and blue collar, I had to prove to my family that there was a livelihood here because they literally looked at it like, we need to get that boy drug tested.
I don't know. Listen to this.
He thinks he's going to video deer hunt. That's what he thinks.
And he's going to skin gonna skin a few he's gonna take a few celebrities

hunting and he's gonna get free camo but you can't eat that camo you know you yeah and i ain't gonna

buy the salisbury steak how you gonna go to bonanza well it's interesting because fun and

personality and camaraderie are infectious it's like people they're drawn to it but it's not

something you can manufacture you either have a great personality or you don't. But having a great personality is very marketable.
So it's kind of a weird sort of catch. Like you can't pretend you're that person because people won't buy it.
You have to actually. The reason why I work with you is because this is who you really are.
That's you. Right.
And so you didn't even know you had this thing that was marketable. No.
It was just you being a person. It's a great point because to this day, I'll go to, and aside, because I'm now, you know, when I, I know you love classic cars and I hear about the things you talk about and obviously I'm a big fan of of the podcast and so one thing that

draws me in is the fact that culturally we're into the same things you know Rubik's Cubes and 80s and I always my favorite car was a 70 super sport you know Chevelle and so I have one of those dude I black with white stripes oh my god I love it the same one like on John Wick basically yes That's a 70.

Yeah.

So anyway, I was just so just amazed by i don't know it's just all all of it and and uh and and even now when i meet people that's the first thing they'll say after we hang out and i just had it up at cactus jack with uh with cameron i had two or three of the guys like hey man and these are older guys like appreciate you waddle man you just like i thought you'd be kind of takes me back. It's not offensive, but I'm like, what was I supposed to be? And I guess I realize, and Cameron and I have talked a lot about that, about like it's odd that there is a thing that is fake, that people can't be transparent, that people can't just talk their feelings.
And everything we say don't mean our assessment is always correct, but at least it is something to be heard and told. And then the more you talk, I think that's what reshaped the politics this year.
When you look at Trump coming on, J.D., Harris passed. Well, it proves like, well, did you really have something to say? And could it be valid? And could you be real? And everybody, I think, appreciates real, even if they don't like the person that they see necessarily as as real and now everything's in question it's like you know it's like these rappers are they really as tough as they say right is was diddy gay I thought this dude I thought he had done shot more stuff than I have you know and it's like you know I don't know I don't know it's just like it's yeah well ask me all the time, like, oh, you met Jelly Roll.
What's he like? He's exactly like you. The same.
That's right. That's why he's popular.
That's a genuine, real human being. Like Luke Bryan.
Exactly. Just like you like.
Exactly. Goofy.
Exactly. Good, cool cat.
Yeah. Luke Combs.
Same thing. That's exactly who he is.
And that's what people are worried about, that someone not being like that. Like you see someone who's real fun on TV and they're real friendly and then you meet them in real life like, oh, that guy's an asshole.
He's mean to waitresses and he's shitty to the fucking valet driver. You want people to be what you hope them to be, but oftentimes you're prepared for them to not be that.
Yeah. You represent that too it's like i you know i remember going to utah and hunting and i was like hey man you know this before i ever knew i'd get a chance to meet you and talk with you and i said how's joe and he's like and then first thing i asked cameron is like dude he's unbelievable so you meet and you are that person and and a question for you i've often wondered do you think that's starting to affect hollywood a little where now, if you look at the most successful people, it is the realest people? You know, people might not even like, say, a Donald Trump, but people are gravitated because they think, hey, man, this is him.
This is real. I think the best thing for people in Hollywood that are entrenched in that world is to shut the fuck up.
Because as soon as they start talking, people like Robert De Niro starts talkingro starts talking i'm like jesus get that fucking microphone away from him so i can enjoy taxi driver yeah it's heartbreaking it's heartbreaking yeah i don't want to hear i love de niro i love those mob movies it's like i don't want to hear him that he's a moron i don't want to hear him talking about politics and about trump supporters and just shut the fuck up man yeah like you didn't think this through think this through. Like this is, and he's getting yelled at.
He's doing an outside press conference. Like Robert, you're 80 years old.
Don't ruin this thing. You've had this life where you were a fucking raging bull.
You know, you were, you were in the Godfather. Like stop, stop, stop doing this.
Don't do this. I'm terrified.
I'm terrified to meet some of those people I looked up to now. You should be.
I've met a few of them. It's actors in particular because their whole business is pretend.
Their whole business is pretend. One of the things about guys like Theo or comedians, you run into comedians, their business is the opposite of pretend.
It's real. Their business is just being a real person talking shit yeah they're

professional shit talkers yeah you know having fun being silly talking shit about things and

actors are not that they're weird people man and the one thing that's harming them in hollywood

is that they get exposed for being who they really are and a lot of these people that pretend to be

all you know clean cut and yeah find out they're in a freaky shit and you know it's like and

Thank you. being who they really are.
And a lot of these people that pretend to be all, you know, clean cut and you find out they're into freaky shit. And, you know, it's like.
And it's easier to expose stuff now because social media, I'm sure, like back in the day, I can only imagine the parties at Waylon Jennings and Merle Haggard. Some of these pictures on the wall in here, can you imagine some of the stuff? They didn't have to worry about nobody.
Right. I mean, there was really.
Rock stars. Leonard Skinner.
zeppelin all those people the party hendrix oh yeah jim marston crazy oh god craziness and no accountability nothing and all they got to do is like i was i was not there prove it yeah and now yeah now you can't go on elk cut and everybody knows you're there everybody's got a fucking camera in their pocket everybody everything is being filmed and so many people get exposed for who they really are it's it's weird but it's also probably good for humanity it's good for let's one of the things that i think is what the rise of podcasts is people get to see real people having real conversations and yeah some people can do it and some people can't and i think the harris thing was they were worried that she couldn't i think they i think they made a good assessment that she couldn't. I don't know, man.
I mean, I've seen her have fun with people. There's this one very funny conversation where she's talking about meeting her in-laws for the first time where her mother-in-law grabs her face.
And it's really funny. It's funny.
Listen to her saying she's laughing hard, but a real laugh this time. Maybe she could now, though maybe maybe maybe she's so if there is a machine because you know what is is fair to say uh even on harris i'll say this or kamala kamala and and that's what's amazing to me i didn't think she had a chance to win because i didn't even know i still don't know what her name is i mean i don't know what the hell is it kamala kamala i think it's kamala it's kamala well, I'm probably going to screw it up.
It's like, you know, and then CNN is going to be like, yeah, you hear Rogan didn't even call her name right. But at the end of the day, maybe now that she's under out of that whole situation, because, you know, you see, you know, and I think the world's changing, like where record producers and stuff are controlling music.
And, you know, if you're going to get on a radio station to where you know everybody walks a tightrope you have to you're working for this machine hollywood i'm sure the same way you got people that i can't i remember ted nugent tells a story um was it kurt russell he was one of his best friends was kurt russell and kurt likes to hunt uh and and this was ted just telling me in a hunting camp and i asked him i said man you know how is kurt you know i love his movies too i'm a big fan he said dude kurt is amazing he said but he had to to a degree during that time frame bow to that machine because he couldn't do these things so i think now it's like you don't know what's real because you don't know if they are trying to do this for a career or if they can be real and then at times okay i believe denaro in his case is finally his true colors and finally like i'm enough to where i can be real but the real you do see in him i'm like go back to being fake just go back to being fake i don't want to see this ass oh you really are no i don't want to hear someone lecturing me that i just oh it's so sad it's sad but I think real conversation like

celebrities were always

people that were

on a pedestal and you didn't think of them as real people. You know, you never got to see John Wayne having long form conversations where he explains his position on this or that.
You just never saw any of that. And I think more of that is being exposed now and i think it's probably good for all of us to not have these ridiculous perceptions of these people and think of them as being larger than life characters they're just humans they're just regular people they're all just human beings and some some of these regular human beings are really fucking good at playing bad guys but you meet them in real life and they're real super sweet they're really nice people they're just good at their job their job is pretending to be an asshole that's right you know and it's what we we the more conversations we have the more conversations that we're that we have access to the more we get to see the patterns of how human beings think and behave and the more we get to see what we like and generally what we like is nice people being real that i totally agree that's what people like and and that perspective you shine you know obviously you got a lot of respect for mike tyson i think he's the baddest boxer toughest i mean i idolized him as a boxer i didn't know much about him as a man or what he was going through at the time but like when it come time to watch a boxing bout tyson's on the card there was no one like him but what a sweetheart of a man i've listened to i listened to it and just the things he says he's so sweet that you know he says things that you don't even know if he's funny like he was talking about you know joe you're you know you ever get erect when you fight you know and they'll think i think you giggled and he's like no i'm serious you know and i'm like whoa you know whoa and all i'm sitting here thinking is like i feel you tyson i was hunting elk and you know new mexico and bull come bugling and i was kind of getting like five dollars worth of jawbreakers it was getting there because i was getting excited about this adrenaline of this elk so okay you're doing it fighting but in my mind i thought it was kind of a joke too but he's such a sweet deep thinker sweet guy but there's a there's a monster in there dude and he can hit that switch he's scary still scary oh he scared the shit out of me meeting him the first time like uh i think kevin hart was the first one to say it he said it was like it's like you're in the room with a lion it's like you're like okay you can probably tell this is the lion cool he's not gonna kill me okay you know it's like jesus but it was there's certain people that i meet that like you know i meet him like i can't believe i'm in the room with quentin tarantino like that is bizarre that was there's a few of those people that you meet him you know like trump's one of those people yeah i mean like yeah he's right there.
A presence is undeniable. That guy, unlike anybody else, can be himself.
Yes. That guy can be himself no matter what.
He can be himself at press conferences. He can be himself on a podcast.
That's a huge strength that he can be himself. You either like who he is or you dislike who he is, but you have to respect that guy can be himself.
He is. And guess what? the more you talk about somebody like donald trump like him or love him he has pretty much as now you know the sack at time he's going to be president he is accessible to the people in a weird way meaning i had a chance to even meet trump he talking about the hunting industry he came to las vegas we used to have this thing called a golden moose awards and i knew donald jr he was a big hunter and um anyway the word got out that hey trump this is prior to the uh election the 16 election he came to las vegas just say hey man there's there's 13 to 15 million hunters out there i need to see where they see what the situation is here i think they're good people and i hear this from my sons eric and donald so he he comes there and and i had a chance to meet him and same thing it was like wow this is before he's president but he's still donald trump and um and i remember i didn't know much if i could you know in my mind is this the guy i'm gonna vote for he was still in the primaries but i remember the first thing he said to me said uh his donald jr introduced me to him, said, Dad, you know, this is Michael Waddell.

He works in the hunting industry, does hunting shows.

He said, man, immediately, so nice.

But I remember the words he said that I knew he wasn't a politician was real.

He said, so you do a lot of hunting.

And I can't do the impression, but I said, yes, sir.

I love it.

That's all I love to do.

He said, I'm not good at it.

I don't have the patience.

My son, they're very efficient.

They're very efficient. They're very good.
They hunt all around the world. He said, but I love to do.
He said, I'm not good at it. I don't have the patience.
My son, they're very efficient. They're very efficient.

They're very good.

They hunt all around the world. He said, but I got a question.
These wolves, what's the deal with the wolves? They're killing a lot of shit. And I said, Mr.
Trump, it really is a problem. I got friends and ranchers out there.
These wolves, they reintroduced them. They spent millions of taxpayers' dollars out there.
And this is, in my mind, if I am playing this role of inferior or redneck or insecure, in my mind, I'm trying to talk humbly to kind of help him know what I know some friends out in Colorado have going through, from cattle to domestic problems to the elk population. He said, well, it's simple.
If they're causing a problem, we need to do something about the wolves. And I remember thinking, I'm voting for this dude.
I'm voting for this dude. I don't care what he's talking about grabbing because I'd been to a few little nonprofit, you know, in Washington, D.C.
with lobbyists and stuff where we're trying to get some money from a bill for the NWTF and Brood and Habitat or Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. And I found most of the politicians were decently fake.
Almost similar to a California, L.A. actor type.
Very similar. Where it's like, OK, if I need to be nice to this guy, I will be.
But I need to figure out who he is and if he's got credentials and what power he has. Yes.
And so for me, here I am feeling like I'm the lowest person in this room. All these other guys are heads of major, heads of major corporations within the hunting industry.
And I'm just this guy who likes to turkey hunt. He's got this show on the Outdoor Channel, and I'm getting a chance to shake his hand.
But he's just as real with me as he is the guy who maybe is maybe the richest guy in the room or possibly the most famous guy in the room. And I found that fascinating that he was that way.
On the other hand, I'm over there talking to a senator at Washington, dc at a party a lobbyist put together and it's like everything like good to meet you i i too like to hunt and so gratifying to see the sunrise and i'm like just a fake person just come yeah weird right yeah it's weird when you're around them because yeah what if you're capable of talking to people fake like this what are the things what are you capable of. Yeah.
Yeah. You're a strange human.
That's exactly right. when you're around them because if you're capable of talking to people fake like this, what are the things? What are you capable of?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're a strange human.

That's exactly right.

And your whole aspiration is to, like, stay fake and to make as much money possible while being fake. Exactly.
And the whole time, again, I never dug into politics. I'm talking to a guy that once I do go back and Google, he come into office.

He was making, you know, he's making as a senator, I don't know what, 50 to 100 grand a year. And now he's worth and it's all he's ever done.
Now he's worth 10 billion dollars, 10 million dollars. Like how? Like where did that come from? I don't think my grandmama would understand that either.
Nobody understands that. It's like so transparent and it's right in front of your face.
Like the Nancy Pelosi situation. She's never made more than 175 000 a year she's worth a hundred and something million dollars how does that happen it's like corruption corruption it only happens through corruption and it's transparent legal corruption it's very strange and it's on both sides it happens everywhere if you look at the stock trading and the red versus blue they're both right up there.
They all have inside information. And they put Martha Stewart in jail for it, didn't they? Yes.
Well, they actually put her in jail for lying. She lied to federal investigators.
That's what they— Ah, I gotcha. But it was Comey.
It was the same guy who went after Trump. It's real wild.
It's real wild when you see what it really is all about. And there's politics on both sides.
And it's not a right or a left thing. It's a power and corruption thing.
I feel like there is a little bit of momentum that feels like there's a little bit of a cleansing process. It's going to take a long time, I think, to get there.
But I think everything that's happening now, it feels through opportunities and outlets like this that people can talk and people can understand what's real and fiction or at least debate. Yeah.
It seems like everything from, I don't know, the political world to just everything about the truth about whether it's hunting and fishing, the truth about the cosmos, possibly some of the stuff about ancient civilization to people and people that love Jesus Christ. You can really dig deep and you can have good conversations.
And it's not just dictated by a certain machine. And I love that.
That's pretty amazing that all of us can come together and have a conversation. Yeah, it's a good time.
It's a crazy time to be alive, but I think it's a beautiful time. It's amazing, man.
I really do. And only in America, baby, I swear.
Only in America. Only in America.
I have more hope for this country right now after this election than I've had in a long, long time. In a long time.
I do too. It feels like with this crew of people, with J.D.
Vance and Elon Musk and RFK Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard and Vivek Ramaswamy, I think there's a real chance that things can change.
A real chance that we can expose some of the deep-seated corruption, some of the problems that we've had in this country, and move us on to a better path. I do, too.
And I find I still got friends that are diehard Democrats and pretty darn liberal, believe it or not, even me, that works in the hunting industry. And even them, I feel a sense of almost like, ah.
I was having a conversation with a friend of mine from New York about this, and he's liberal. But he was like, listen, everybody pretends that they're mad that Trump won, but there's a recognizable feeling of relaxation in New York.
Yeah. Like some sense of logic has prevailed.
No one really believed that she was going to be a great president. And they certainly didn't believe that Tim Walsh was going to be a great vice president.
That was crazy. That was crazy that that guy was supposed to be one heartbeat away from the fucking president.
And then they also knew that there was so much corruption involved.

Everybody knew what they were doing with the Twitter files and all that other shit.

There's so much that like, this is probably the right way.

I know.

I mean, and people were paying attention that have never been intrigued.

Yes.

And I think a lot of things happen there.

It's like, you know, most people, you know, somebody asked me, you know, how do you know when you're rich? And I said, well, when you don't know what a gallon of milk costs to me. Right.
Because I remember growing up in that same rural area and, you know, my grandmama and stuff. But when I could sit there and talk to my youngins, you know, my son Mason, I said, Mason, when you come down, run by and get us a gallon of milk.
And, you know, get us some cereal. We'll just have cereal.
And I got some sausage. But get us a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread.
Well, that never was the case when I was a kid. Grandma said, hey, run by.
Look, don't go to Big Star. It's 25 cent more over there.
Go over there to Giant Mark. They got a deal right now.
As a matter of fact, go buy me a couple packs of that ground round. They're running a special.
A gallon of milk. They knew.
They'd drive over here and knew where gas was the cheapest. And when you get to a place to where you know you're doing pretty well, it's like, I need some gas.
Pull over. Yeah.
You ain't worried about driving across town. Yeah.
Just save a quarter. My friend Brian has this thing, and I say it all the time.
He said, this is how rich you want to get. We can go to a restaurant and order whatever you want and not worry about it.
everything after that is bullshit and then look and say hey i want to tip 20 or 25 and you do the math just write it on there yeah that that's that's you are rich and you are blessed if you can do that everything else on top of that you don't really notice it it's kind of bullshit i 100 agree with that and i think that backfired on a little bit of the whole Harris thing when she said, no, everything's good. And she's telling that to people who know exactly where the cheapest milk is and they were going to vote for her.
And they're like, yes, no, it ain't. I'm struggling out here.
And then you're telling, you know, like we blessed to go to these hunting places, but they're not cheap places to hunt to to be able to technically trespass on these properties that are privately owned. And if you were to go on a public elk hunt, you know, the private public.
Well, look, go get us a yurt. If we did right now, me, you and Cam and Remy planned us a good DIY hunt.
It's like, well, Joe, you're going to get to yurt. I'll go get the mountain house.
Right. Cam's like, hey, man, I got plenty of mountain ops and whatever, and I'll bring some coffee.
Can you imagine putting a yurt out in the middle of Idaho? Can you imagine? But I promise you, if we just dutched it, dutched it, we still got three or four grand a piece. Yeah.
And we're going out there to go hunt. Yeah.
Just in supplies and setups. Oh, yeah, just in your bow and your arrows and your broadheads and your fucking range finder and your minos and your gear and your clothing and your boots the tires on your truck and gas and this and that and then tags and oh it's it's not cheap oh it's not cheap like i said uh you could either buy you a small farm farm in Kentucky or just get you a new bow.
I mean, that's what it feels like these days, you know. But I tell you, it's absolutely so amazing that we get a chance to even do it and even get back to hunting.
I tell people all the time, it's like, you know, I've always stood by the fact, I don't think you're a badass that you hunt. I think it's just badass that we can have that opportunity in America and that we can fall back on that.
And if times do get hard, there's a certain piece once you understand the craft of it, a little bit of that rule of living and knowing how to skin a deer, knowing the best parts. And yes, you can eat it all.
You can eat organs. You can eat real meat.
You can do all those things. But at the end of the day, there's a certain piece as a man, especially.
And I think overall, even though we're in a world to where, you know, we got these equality and women can do what men can do or supposedly. But at the end of the day, I've always looked at it that my job is to provide, you know, safety, some type of structure, food and care for my family.

And any man that's out there that knows nothing about. job is to provide you know safety uh some type of structure uh food and care for my family and

any man that's out there that knows nothing about nature that if these cities shut down

that would be a terrifying experience the mercedes won't start the wi-fi don't come on

you can't run down to starbucks and all of a sudden you can't go to the market or call uber

eats to deliver you sushi or your favorite pizza you And you've got to walk to where the animals are. Now you've got to walk.
And you have no skill set. Yes, I sometimes, but guess what? I've gotten pretty good at the cities.
I know how to work these apps. I can grab me an Uber.
I can go talk to somebody or I can Google it and say, man, I'm going to walk down here to this steakhouse. You can certainly navigate their world a whole lot better than they can navigate yours.
The world that me and you love the most is hard to navigate for some people. And I think they're starting to realize it.
And I really noticed it. It's a long learning curve.
It takes forever. And there's a piece.
I told somebody a while back, I said, man, I'm going to tell you when you become a hunter and you understand it and you become simple, all the financial situations you might gain, money's nice. I agree that it don't necessarily bring you happiness.
It is great to be able to have the money to do those things we talked about, just eating. Or maybe it is that 70 Chevelle that's like I've always wanted and you can buy it.
But at the end of the day, there's a peace comes to know that I could potentially lose it all. But if I got my wife and my kids and I got this bow and arrow, I might actually gain a little bit because now there's no, I got peace and tranquility.
I got a certain stillness that is more valuable than anything I could find at the rave or in the middle of the city. And so I've often told people, even if you love the city life, which what people might not realize, I love the city life.
It's so visit but that's just it i want to visit i'm ready to get back out like the thought of things i could do in austin there's a million things my mind's going wide open like man i'd love to go to the comedy club well i love man i heard the steakhouse was great i got they got this they got that this place got the best martinis and this cigar bar but once i do all that i'm ready to go back to the campfire hearing whippoorw wheels and coyotes howling like you ain't gonna believe and i'm puffing on me a fuente cigar like you ain't gonna believe this steakhouse that joe told me about it's heaven it's heaven well i think michael one of the things that people really enjoy about you and i've enjoyed talking to you is you have a genuine gratitude towards life you know it's it's infectious it's it's real and i think uh appreciation for this beautiful chaotic world that we live in is uh it's a it's a virtuous thing it's a very important thing well that means a lot and and to be able to to see that it means is more to me than anything because i do i mean i i don't even know how and why sometimes i ask myself and uh i mean like i said i've just been so blessed and it's been amazing the people i've met and learned so much um i mean it's just i don't know how it happened going back to that thought my grandmama's living room like what are you doing boy you know it's like you got a brand new flaring kit that's also one of the reasons why it's so cool yeah it worked out that way it wasn't like it was all easily planned out and a just a natural path for you to go down no did you have much of that joe like obviously growing up where you did and i mean you've i mean a same amazing opportunity you had so many cool things that's happened. Did you ever have any people like, what is what's Joe doing? Oh, yeah.
Everyone. My parents, for sure.
You can be a comedian. What the fuck are you doing? Like, you're not even funny.
They didn't want me to fight when I started fighting. They're like, you're going to get hurt.
They didn't want me to do comedy because I was good at fighting. Like, why don't you stick with that? It was just no matter what, there's always going to be people that doubt you, especially if you want to do something that's high risk, low probability of success.
You know, it made me dig deep because I think of that. And the reason I ask you that is because that experience I had with my family, it was kind of mind boggling because I thought they would see it as I did.
And I think there's a difference in perception or the way we perceive things and and the true reality possibly because you got to sometimes bring yourself out and look back in from their point of view and i learned it as i become a parent because now i got kids and they're wanting to do something i got a boy mason he just he moved to charleston south carolina and all of a sudden i become a grandmama in my mind i got hey when i get back christy we're gonna have some cornbread and collard greens and fried chicken i want to come back and tell you because he listens to every episode my son mccoy meyer all of them so in my mind i got him pictured living a little old house right there around the farm well he bups moves to charleston south carolina i'm like what are you doing are you on crack now you tell me are you what are you doing and um and it hit me it's like man i'm being my grandmama i'm being uncle tommy and the reason they was that way and say with your parents they love people love us so much that they don't want us to fail and i think inevitably we can fail people as felt the people we love the most because we want to keep them safe yes i don't want my you know i know it's a world where a wife or can go out there and cut wood. I want my damn wife cutting wood.
I'll cut the wood. Let me get the calluses.
I don't want my wife going to the door. You know, if a villain's at night, I'm not saying she couldn't shoot more better than me.
I don't know. But at the end of the day, I love her enough.
I don't want her hurt. I don't want my kids to fail.
But in reality, why not? Somebody's got to do these small percentiles. Somebody's got to be a Michael Jordan.
Yeah. How did Michael Jordan? What was his trajectory? Somebody say, you can't make a living.
You know, I'm sure somebody. And so I think we want to put everybody in a safe spot.
And if you think about it, if 80% or 90% of people can do these things, well, guess what? Go try the 10, 20%. If you fail, jump back into the 80, 90% and you can at least say say you tried yeah least say i tried to make somebody laugh on a stage at least say i tried to sell a hoyt bow and enough to make money and they'd give me a percentage of something or have my name on a bow i don't know you can at least try it i don't think it makes you arrogant or over zealously confident it's just why not well i think there's people that are afraid to try that will try to attack you for trying.
Yeah. There's that.
There's crabs in a bucket. You know, there's that.
There's people that don't want someone to take a risk and succeed because they never took a risk and they don't want to confront themselves with that thought. They don't want to be confronted with the reality of what they've done with their life.
Like maybe they did have a dream. Maybe they did want like luke bryant maybe they did want to be on stage singing maybe they did want to know yeah you know they wanted to do something extraordinary and they never really took the chance and so when they see you taking the chance they want to fill you with doubt they do it's a unnecessary and unfortunate aspect of human nature i see that and i feel that from time to time but it makes you appreciate the

people that encourage people it really does and and um i i texted several people all the time especially when i think about it people on the way who said hey hey buddy let me pull you back stay away from this stuff but you're you know you're special in this you go do this and keep doing this man people don't realize what that that means you know i think about that i street person. It's like just, I mean, literally, me in the right mood, especially with this young lady right there, I'd have wanted to hit him.
And I don't know mixed martial arts, but I know a goddamn haymaker, and he didn't see it coming. And, I mean, he was calling this girl all kind of names, and you MFers, and all it took was to say, hey, bro, I'm on side and immediately he was just like he just wanted to be heard and maybe that's it maybe you i don't know and and people just get tired of being outcasts you know people want community they really do they want friends they want it's like you were saying before that like the relationships you make in this life that's the real trophy it is and and that's thing, I guess, the last thing I'd want to leave about the hunting community.
And I think you felt it just from people you've seen or maybe researched. And like Cam had said, he said, man, you don't find a better student than Joe.
He said, he knows more about broadheads than the companies themselves. He researches this stuff.
He knows the geometry of bows and brace heights. He's so dig deep.
He said he just, he loves it. And it made me feel so good to know that you're that deep into it.
And but when you start looking at so many of these things that's out there for us, what I find about the hunting community, it is a community of people that welcomes all. It doesn't matter.
It really does. And they want you to learn, and they're so appreciative that you might would just take a look into this culture that sometimes can be criticized at some time be judged and think we're barbaric or we're hillbilly or uneducated or are just ruthless.
And and what you'll find is there is a part of that that with dipping into nature, mother nature, you have to kind of become an animal with that and be like the bear, like the predator. You are a killer.
You have to come to full draw to feed your family. But it's so welcoming.
And I've never seen anybody alienized. I've never seen anybody that I've thought that was a solid person within the industry and are just people around my house that wouldn't bring in, feed you and say, come on, let me show you what this is about, boy or young lady.
And I'm proud of that, and I'm confident, and I know that there's nobody. Even the people that might talk bad about them, they're going to treat them good.
And I remember one thing that was epic that happened, Joe, and it hit me pretty hard. My daughter, Addie, had asked me, she said, you know, Dad, what would what would what in a situation if we're at school and there's something bad happening?

You know, I was talking about some of the school shootings. I saw we just had one.
I'm like, what should I do?

And I was like, was there any kind of mandate of what you should do? And I said, well, they say do this, this and this.

Hide under your desk and sit there and wait and lock the doors. I said, well, I'm about to go against protocol, Addie.

I said, and I knew her school. They had these outside doors that went out and quickly there in harris county georgia it goes off into the wilderness you know matter of fact my farm is right across from the high school and um i said addy i'll tell you what i want you to do if something goes awry i said you know you've hunted with me a lot and you understand you know how to hide and slip around and stuff like that i said if something happens and you can see that exit door and you can get out and you can hit the woods i want you to go right then don't wait around i want you to go figure out the situation like if a bear is coming in the tent you get out the tent and get up the tree or what if you got to do and i said but here's what i want you to do i said you go and i ain't never told you to judge somebody because i don't believe in judging a book by the cover I don't I don't believe in that but I said but in this case in this adverse moment you go out and you find a beat-up old Chevrolet truck it's got an NRA sticker on it maybe a beat-up minivan with a mom riding around with some uh you know maybe it is that old 70 Chevelle because that guy appreciates good cars and you jump out and you stop him it's gonna be a complete stranger but I want you to pick out that person I said you know you and find out and I said if you find somebody with a four-wheel drive truck that you know it probably resembles your granddaddy or me or Nick Munt and all these guys you jump in there they're gonna have a little snack they definitely gonna have a gun in there and you them what happened.
They will protect you until they can find me. And when I thought about that, I was dead serious.
But then I thought, that goes beyond my daughter. Anybody, it wouldn't matter if you was Muslim, Christian, or goth, or whatever.
If you did that in the country, somebody's going to stop and say, hey, man, what's going on? They're going to quickly evaluate it. And I'm not saying everybody won't.
I think most people has that opportunity. But if you raise around that culture to where you're ready to help and you're ready to assist love is so deep and uh and and the nature and the human nature is to protect and to to make sure this person is doing good even if they don't align and thought process uh and so i'm proud to come from that and and and that's probably my biggest joy whether it's taking a jim brewer or Theo is when they see it that's that's always even if they don't get something they're like man this was cool this was fun there's some good folks a little scared of y'all a little scared of y'all and Theo and all of them said man something happens I'm coming to your house Waddell and Kayla Pressley was at this little funk he said Waddell my wife his fiancee I don't think he's married he said my wife said hey if something happens we're going to Michael Waddell's house he said you don't even know where he lives she said well I'm still going there and so anyway that's just that's just cool I'm proud of that and that ain't that ain't anything to do with me that's just it's a culture it's such an amazing opportunity to share that Michael I really michael i really enjoyed talking to you man thank you very much thanks for having it was a lot of fun thank you uh tell everybody what your social media is where they could find your your hunts online oh yeah um obviously uh bonecollector.com we're on instagram at official bone collector i think it is and then uh there's a michael waddell page there's there's a bone collector page and heck i'm on tiktok so yeah all right i'm dancing around over

there too so i'm on everything it's china spying on me too but anyway sure thank you joe thanks

brother i've been a fan a long time appreciate it it was a lot of fun thank you very much all right

bye everybody Thank you.