#2246 - James Fox

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A lot has been going on. This is, you know, I had, I know you ran into him.
I had Ryan Graves on yesterday. Oh my God, I'll tell you the funny story about how I ran into him.
You ran into him in the lobby of the hotel, right? So the lobby told me, they were all, don't use this one elevator. It's really rickety.
And it makes a lot of noise. And it's just, it's not very reliable.
And just don't use it. So I didn't.
And then I was leaving 24 hours later to come down and get some coffee. And I was like, ah, fuck it.
Let me take the rickety elevator. I was like, they told me not to take it, but I'm going to take it anyway.
So I push the button. I'm standing there.
I hear this. The door's open.
I look. I see this shadowy figure in the corner.
I'm like, Ryan Graves? What are you doing? He goes, I don't know. What are you doing? I was like, are you doing what I think you're doing? He goes, yeah.
Did he tell you that? Did he tell you that? Yes, he did. He told me he ran into you.
He didn't tell me the whole story about the rickety-along. Yeah, yeah.
And he was like this shadowy figure up against the corner, like, kind of just, you know, looking at him. He's looking at me.
It was really funny. We had a lot of—we talked a lot of nonsense about aliens.
But we also talked about the technology that he knows is state-of-the-art when it comes to drones. Yes.
And that some of these ones in New Jersey, they're doing things that you can't really do yet. Yes.
Yeah, which is really fascinating. Yes.
Because it's like, okay. And they're the size of SUVs.
Right. So is it ours? And we somehow or another have some stuff that the mainstream drone manufacturers at the highest level aren't aware of yet? Is it ours? Is it like some crazy military stuff? Because if it's not and it's coming from the ocean, like, what do you mean it's coming? What the fuck do you? 50 of them.
What do you mean? What do you mean? 50 suburban sized UFOs are coming out of the ocean. This is really funny.
I've been working with this guy. We've been communicating on the signal for a long time Actually, he was through Proton.
He was emailing me stuff about Virginia the UFO crash in Virginia and but he was anonymous One day I was like he's really knowledgeable and he was sending me stuff that was really helpful Like you should track down this flight it happened. It was gonna have this airport go to this base And I was like funny one day.
I was like, who are you? And how do you know what you know? He goes I'm a retired United States Air Force colonel. It was going to have this airport, go to this base.
And I was like, finally one day I was like, who are you?

And how do you know what you know?

He goes, I'm a retired United States Air Force colonel. I was like, oh.
And he goes, and I'm also an experiencer. I had an experience back in 1980, blah, blah, blah.
Oh, what happened to him? He had a UFO encounter. It's in the movie towards the end.
But anyway, he texted me yesterday. And he goes, James, I really want you to explain to me how the hell you orchestrated a UAP invasion right around the time your film's coming out.
I was like, I'd really like to know how you did that. I was like, I know I couldn't.
Do you know what kind of a budget you would have to have to have drones running in the sky all over? How many different cities are reporting it now? Like, what's the numbers? It's exploding all over the place, and it's getting better. I've heard California.
I've heard Europe now, bases in England, New York, New Jersey. I've heard San Diego.
Wasn't there something in Ohio, right? Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, they had to shut that place down. Yeah.
That's Ohio. So I've heard New Jersey.
I think Florida, right? that was the one that ryan graves showed us a photo of that was from florida so like who fucking what's going on who fucking knows i was super busy you know i had the release of the film going on and so i was like trying to focus on that and getting everything lined up and it was a huge push and all these text messages from all around the world are pouring in like what the hell's going on with these drones and I was like ah it's probably something conventional I'm not going to worry about it right now I'm just going to keep on focusing what I got it what I got at hand here and then I started getting more information coming in more information then a buddy of mine called me and he actually went to Brazil with me a couple years ago and he's like bro I live here I'm seeing these things in the sky I've seen them seven times now they're the size of an SUV I well, what do they look like? What do they behave like? He's like, well, they're making noise. I was like, oh, okay.
Well, that quickly kind of eliminates, you know, something non-conventional in terms of propulsion. But then I got reports of objects that didn't make any noise and that would go silent.
Did you say what kind of noise it was making? Like a propeller's drones would make, but loud. Yeah, and they have a loiter, but they're big, and they have a loiter time of hours.
The average drone, like I fly drones for my films, is like, you're lucky to get 25 minutes. These things are there for hours.
Yeah, five hours at a time. They go dark when they're approached by other objects.
They're not getting picked up on FLIR at times. And then some of them have no noise there I've heard crescent shaped and then I heard about the ones that really got me because I contacted Christopher Mellon I was like Chris what is going on buddy I really rely on him for good information and he's like I really don't know man it's a real shit show and the US government seems to be clueless right now he goes some of them are conventional some of them are misidentified crap, but there are other ones coming in off the ocean that are up to 50.
The Coast Guard and Police Department are reporting that truly remain a mystery. And then you had Schumer at a press conference, just like it was yesterday.
And then he's going, and he's like, we don't know what they are. We don't know what they are.
And the guy goes, yeah, so it's a UAP. He goes, well, the drones.
He goes, well, you wrote the legislation. It's a UAP.
It's unidentified anomalous phenomenon. Why don't you just use UAP? I think they're using the word drone because UAP is almost too scary.
Like some kind of invasions happening. That's what UAP is unidentified anomalous phenomenon.
Yeah. Couldn't that be kind of anything? It doesn't even mean flying.
Well, that's the thing because it used to be unidentified aerial. Well, it was UFO, unidentified then it was uap unidentified aerial phenomenon but then they're coming out of the water right i feel like this is so they said anomalous why don't they just keep using ufo because it has because people associate ufo with otherworldly and they wanted to take that remove that baggage and make it a little less scary that's my personal opinion i kind of get, but also it's just an unidentified flying object.
If we find out what it is, then it becomes an identified flying object. It doesn't necessarily mean it's alien.
True. Right? Like, think of the stealth bomber.
People were probably jumping out of their windows right now if they said UFOs are invading the East Coast. You remember World of Worlds? Right.
That's true. People were, like, jumping out of their windows.
That's a good point. That's actually a very good point.
So I think they toned it out. I think they're using the word drone even though they're unidentified just because of the fear factor.
I think the fear factor is real. Yeah.
I can't help but cringe when I hear that word. Oh, sorry.
The fear element. It's so funny.
Sorry. It was too much of a part of my life.
Too close to home. So when did they start? Like, when was it acknowledged that this was an issue that was reoccurring recently? Like, you know, obviously there's always been something in the sky.
People have always seen things. Who knows what they are, whether or not they're, you know, a lot of people see Starlink and they think it's UFOs, right? Yeah, yeah, of course.
But when did this drone thing that we're currently experiencing basically every day, when did it start?

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A couple weeks ago? Just a few weeks ago. Maybe a month ago.
That's when I started really hearing about it. But Jamie, is there like, I have any sort of official answer to that? I have something that 20th, 19th, something like that is mid November, mid November.
I have something that this is about an air base in Vandenberg Air Force Base in 2003. And this is not an anonymous, but this is about incursions over, listen to this, I promised this individual that I met at Seoul Conference, he's a witness, he's a military guy.
My name is Jeffrey Nusatelli. I served 16 years in the United States Air Force as a technical sergeant and a military police officer.
In October 2003, my coworkers and I witnessed a series of extraordinary UAP incursions at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The initial event is known as the Vandenberg Red Square, and it was first mentioned during the historic UAP hearing held in 2023.

The case involved Boeing contractors who witnessed a huge red square-shaped object roughly the size of a football field hovering over a missile defense system.

The object was silent and had no visible means of propulsion.

The contractors watched in amazement as the massive object slowly drifted east and vanished over the hills. I retained official Air Force records of the event, including the blotter form entry, which includes the names and contact information of all the witnesses and provided it to select members of Congress, ARO, and the FBI.
ARO is a new UAP task force, all domain anomalous resolution office. After the initial event, several other UAP incursions took place at Vandenberg.
I was on duty during many of the encounters, and I investigated the incidents as they unfolded. Now remember, this is not anonymous reporting here.
They include a football field-sized craft that terrified security guards as it silently hovered over a bunch, a launch facility before flying off at an unbelievable rate of speed, a brightly illuminated silent object that landed on the base flight line before accelerating instantaneously and disappearing into space, a huge triangle shape craft larger than larger than a C-130, that hovered 50 feet over a police officer before it drifted slowly over the base. A blue-white liquid orb, roughly the size of his house, that hovered over his house on the base.
The objects made no sound and had zero obvious means of propulsion. And he says, My experiences with UAP were awe-inspiring, exciting, and terrifying.
I don't know why UAP are flying over our bases and our neighborhoods, but I do know the UAP phenomenon is of the utmost importance to all of humanity. I currently have five other military witnesses to the Vandenberg incursions that are all willing to testify tomorrow under oath that these statements are true.
We need answers to this mystery and better government transparency. Thank you for the opportunity to share my story, former United States Air Force Technical Sergeant and Witness Jeff Nusitelli.
Whoa. Crazy, right? I mean, we're talking objects the size of a football field? That's bananas.

And then they take off insanely fast, just like the Tic Tac.

Straight up into space.

So this was it.

What was the exact date of this?

This was 2003.

There was a number of incursions during that year,

up all the way into 2005.

And he has the names, and they submitted it to the new head of Arrow.

That's interesting, because that coincides with the Tic Tac. It does coincide with the Tic Tac.
I wonder if there's like, you know, vacation season. You know? It's like every few years.
Let's go check out what those guys are up to. You know what I mean? Maybe it's like a real pain in the ass to get here.
Maybe it's one of those things like you can go to Australia, but it's a pain in the ass. It's 16 fucking hours on a plane.
It's a long flight. Oh my gosh..
I went to South Africa one time, and that was like 22 hours. I was like, the plane's going to run out of gas.
That's exactly what I'm saying. It's like one of those things.
It's like you can do it, but it's a pain in the ass. So maybe they only travel to Earth every now and again.
How could these incursions have been taking place, and like, here we are 20 years later, and we're only now really starting to talk about them them i think the reason being is if you don't understand it and you can't protect people from it because it's so beyond our capabilities that if just describing it accurately removes all confidence that our government has everything under control that's one one reason why and also if you have no answers you don't know what the hell it is like it's a very good point if you don't know what the hell it is what are you even going to say hey there's something that came we don't know what the hell it is. That's a very good point, yes.
If you don't know what the hell it is, what are you even going to say? Hey, there's something that came. We don't know what the fuck it is.
It's as big as a football field. Shot off into the sky.
We have no idea. They'd be like, what do you mean we have no idea? Hire someone who understands this.
And then they'd be like, fire him. Get him out of office.
I remember, like 20 years ago, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, totally naive, still naive, but I was meeting with a general. And I said, God, it would be so amazing.
You know, this story is like so unifying. And we had this kumbaya moment.
And we discovered that, you know, we're not alone in the universe. And wouldn't that be amazing? And blah, blah, blah, the implications for all of humanity.
And he sat there almost chuckling at me. And he goes, looked at me and he goes, you got it all wrong, man.
You know, you got to see this through our lens. I was like, through your lens? He goes, yeah, the military's perspective.
I was like, okay, tell me. And I never thought about this before.
You just mentioned it. He goes, okay, imagine this scenario.
We sit there and we say, you know, my fellow Americans, it has been brought to our attention that there are craft of unknown origin whizzing around with impunity in our airspace. They exhibit a technology that's light years advanced from anything that we have.
We don't know who they are, where they come from, what they want. Shall they turn to be hostile? We have no visible means of defense against them.
Thank you and good night. You're fired.
You're fired. You're fired.
And someone like Trump will come come along I'll make a deal with the aliens yeah but you see that predicament like people always go why the secrecy duh yeah you have to have secrecy because you got to imagine the job of a politician in general right like you have to pretend that you're gonna be able to handle situations that you well know you're not gonna be able able to handle. Yeah.
You know, if you're running for president, you know that you're not going to fix this economy. All right? Stop.
Just stop. Everything's going to be, I'm going to wave the magic wand and it's all going to be taken care of.
You know you're not going to implement electric cars over the, stop. Stop.
Shut the fuck up. There's not enough batteries.
So if you're lying about all that, you're probably going to lie about whether or not you can handle the alien threat.

I will unite us. I will unite us as a planet so we can deal together with the aliens.

Yes!

All you have to do is just say some bullshit like that. And then someone probably bends his ear when he gets into office and is like, yeah.

A good speaker.

About that disclosure.

J.D. Vance, like a guy like that.

Very bright, young, energetic speaker.

He can convince people he can talk to the aliens.

He can convince people that he can unite us all.

Have you seen the program?

No, I have not.

Okay, so there is...

Explain it to everybody.

Okay, so the program, basically, it's funny because the last time I was on the show,

we were talking about an alleged crash retrieval case that took place in Virginia, Brazil in 1996.

And you're documenting... Basically, it's funny because the last time I was on the show, we were talking about an alleged crash retrieval case that took place in Virginia, Brazil in 1996.
And your documentary on it. Yeah, Moment of Contact.
Amazing. Amazing documentary.
So we're talking about that, and I came off the heels of doing The Phenomenon, which touched a little bit on a potential crash retrieval program, but then it was the crash retrieval over in Virginia, Brazil. And then I got hyper focused on that.
And then I had sort of was a personal journey for me was, okay, the elected officials, what do they know? And when did they know it? Do we have a crash retrieval program? that's what I set out to do and then three months after I was on your show in April of 2023, the highest level intel officer, David Grush, testifies under oath that there is a crash retrieval program and that the government does have definitive proof that we're not alone. So he kind of opened the door for me.
And a lot had happened since the release of the phenomenon and moment of contact. There was all this legislation.
There was the first congressional hearing. There was behind closed doors meetings with a number of of intel officers and witnesses.
And and then you had the second congressional hearing, which was David Grush, which was absolutely phenomenal. I'm sure you saw that.
Yeah. Right.
And then just recently, just a couple of months ago, we had the third congressional hearing, which I actually, funny enough, got to attend.

It was the first time in my 30 years investigating.

I was actually sitting behind people while they were testifying under oath about legitimacy of the phenomenon as well as there's a crash retrieval program.

I mean, people have to understand that feel like maybe these things aren't happening fast enough.

Just a couple of years ago, they didn't even admit that the phenomenon is real now there's people testifying under oath that we have a crash retrieval program so drip drip drip things are happening they're not putting the genie back in the bottle do you wonder at all that you're being mind fucked do you wonder at all this is a massive psyop and this is all just to cover up some very advanced American weapons technology? I think it's a very good question. And here's why I don't believe that.
Because I have done 30 years of field research, right? So I've gone to China, I've been to Russia, I've been to Australia and Africa, South America, Canada, Alaska, all across Europe, United States. And I've investigated close Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
And I'm going to ask your audience, don't take it from me, but the United States Air Force investigated and categorized Close Encounters of the First, Second, and Third Kind, right? During their official capacity, Project Sign, Project Grudge, Project Blue Book. Great fucking movie, by the way, if you haven't seen it, folks.
Close Encounters the Third Time. Probably the best alien invasion movie of all time.
Dr. Hynek has a cameo appearance in that film.
Did you know that? I had heard that. I don't remember who he was, though, but wasn't the French guy? Yeah, Jacques Vallée.
He's supposed to be Jacques Vallée. Jacques Vallée has a cameo.
Well, there's a guy acting his part, but actually Dr. Jalen Hynek, who's a scientific advisor to Project Blue Book all those years for the Air Force actually has a cameo appearance smoking a cigar during the encounter and that's right that's right smoking a pipe smoking a pipe and he a lot of the cases right down to Richard Dreyfuss's face being burned by the UFO those came directly out of project blue book files even the description of whatters.
Again, Close Encounters of the Third Kind. This is the United States Air Force documenting this stuff.
Yeah. And he took it directly out of Project Blue Book files and made a movie out of it.
And as a little wink, wink, nudge, nudge, he has Dr. Hynek have a cameo appearance in the movie.
You know what? Most people don't know that. It's a fantastic movie, too.
It's a a great movie because it's a movie that's filled with it's not like standard ufos land like there's some play going on there's some weirdness to the way they interact with us that sort of is much more realistic in terms of like the things that people experience yeah they experience interactions very strange interactions and when they had those little orblike things that were flying around in the movie, that's all straight out of like... Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Oh, 100%.
I remember I had a buddy of mine who was a pilot over Europe in the 70s, and he used to come for family dinners, and he was always talking about it, and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. And then later, we're all in the life.
Foo Fighters. When I started getting an interest in UFOs, I was like, Michael, tell me about that UFO and kind of you had, that red orb, because it was just just like it was in the close accounts of the third kind, Steven Spielberg's movie.
And I was like, ah, they took those files directly out of Project Blue Blue Files and right onto the big screen. That's what the Foo Fighters were, right? Yeah, Foo Fighters too.
They had little orbs. Yeah.
Yeah, little orbs. Fighter pilots are flying around.
They're seeing these things with them. Well, let me ask you, and this is why that I don't think it's a PSYOP thing.
I don't think it's a PSYOP either. Well, the reason why I don't is because, okay, I don't just believe Grush because he testified under oath and he's a high level intelligence officer.
That's very impressive. I believe Grush because his claims align with my personal research in the field.
Remember, I've investigated crash retrieval programs, crash retrieval cases, right? And so I was, I mean, when I put out Moment of Contact, well, actually, when I went in to put out Moment of Contact, people were going, James, you just dropped one of the biggest, most successful UFO films in terms of transcending the UFO community and penetrating a much broader, more mainstream audience. Are you sure you want to put out a documentary that deals with an alleged crash and live aliens walking around the town of Virginia, Brazil? Like, seriously, that's what you want to put out there? You've got access to, like, Harry Reid and all these intel insiders, and now you want to do that? You're going to tarnish your reputation.
It's a bad... Who gave you that advice? A lot of people did were i wish you called me well like james you can handle you probably heard about moment of contact and then you thought oh this sounds too crazy that you watched it no i thought um well i always think a crash and contact sounds crazy i know and it does i always think that but i would have never told you not to do it oh okay i would never told you not to do it not to do it.
You're really good at this. You're really good at explaining the UFO phenomena.

But you look at half the town talking about it, including the mayor.

Well, that's an incredible story.

It's an incredible story.

It's a phenomenal story.

It's one of those stories where you're like, if everybody's in on this, this is crazy.

If everybody's telling it.

And no one, there's not one contrarian that comes out and goes, they all told me to lie.

I'm not fucking lying.

This is stupid.

They're doing it for tourism.

Oh, yeah.

Not one person. Come on.
There's always some hater. There's always some hater who wants to ruin your lie.
I'm not fucking lying. This is stupid.
They're doing it for tourism. Oh, yeah.
Not one person?

Come on.

There's always some hater.

There's always some hater

who wants to ruin your gag.

I remember.

You know what I mean?

Oh, yeah, no, I totally do.

I remember when I was making

Moment of Contact

and I wasn't done with it yet,

Lou Elizondo was like,

he's like, James,

he called me up.

He goes, I need a copy.

I was like, the film's not done.

I don't care.

I need a copy.

Give me a rough cut.

I don't care.

I was like, okay, okay.

What's the urgency?

And he's like, you don't understand who's watching this right now. So I was like, okay.
So I'm giving him copies. And I had absolutely no idea ever in 100 million years that I think we're going to be having, months after the release of Moment of Contact, a congressional hearing under oath that was a crash retrieval program.
What year did Moment of Contact come out?

It came out at the end of 2022.

Do you think Biden watched it?

Do you think he sat down with Biden?

That would have been wild.

He's been so dismissive of it all.

You know, Obama has said a lot more about it.

You know why?

Because he's already in space.

He's in space right now.

He's like, go talk to Obama.

He's in orbit right now around Saturn. I was like, really? That's the best you can do? He's like Dr.
Manhattan, he's on the moon in a glass house Okay, let's see, if Biden, if you're listening right now You have nothing to lose You're the president of the United States, sir, release the hounds He's never running ever again Exactly He's not running for a second term Come on, we're done He's already pardoned more human beings than any president ever, other than Carter. To the advice at the end of the program by Senator Harry Reid, who's now the late Senator Harry Reid.
And I said to him, what advice would you give the president? It could have been any president at the time. And he said, don't be afraid of tarnishing your legacy by addressing this issue head on.
And I hope that Biden gets to see that. And I really hope that President-elect Donald Trump gets to see that.
People are ready for the truth. They've had enough of the line.
I think we're way beyond that at this point. I agree with you.
However, when I confronted Mr. Trump, he was very cagey.
Was he really? Very cagey. I've seen some things.
They told me some things He didn't tell me shit. He basically it was I basically like neither could for confirmed nor denied No, there was no eyes.
I don't do that shit, especially to a pro like Donald Trump Like you're not yeah, yeah, you're gonna do it to an actor so shut up You know what they think Daniel Day-Lewis told you that he ate a baby. You'd fucking believe him.
You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Like this idea that what did his eyes tell you? What did his eyes tell you? It depends on the person. Depends on the person.
If it's your regular crackpot and they tell you a lie, like something's up. But there's people that can hide things.
They can hide things behind their eyes. I think he knows something.
I don't think he's that interested. I think he's more interested.
I think he's a sort of a no-nonsense type of guy. This is why.
You kind of have to be to be managing multiple businesses simultaneously, right? He's always done that his whole career, right? Managed being on The Apprentice while running these golf courses, while having these buildings, apartment buildings, hotels. He's constantly doing something, right? So while he's doing all that, and he's playing golf, while he's doing all that, there's no time for fucking aliens, man.
There's no time for nonsense. There's no time for sitting around with your buddies, you know, smoking a cigar going, what do you think, man? I mean, if they fucking, if I was them, man, I would do what they're doing.
You know, there's no time for that nonsense talk. That guy's got businesses.
But we got objects of unknown origin flying over residential areas, flying over military bases, flying over nuclear silos. Well, now I think he's much more interested because.
That's a matter of national security. I mean, people are freaking out.
Like, what the hell are we seeing? And they're going, we don't know what they are, but everything's fine. Well, he's totally safe.
There's no national security issue here. we don't know what they are but everything's fine well he's totally safe there's no there's no national security issue here we don't know what they are but you're fine don't worry about you remember um what was the steven spielberg movie with the shark the great white shark yeah jaws jaws yeah everything's fine mayor people are like keep swimming keep swimming the water's fine everyone's saying people are getting bitten half way That's the perfect analogy.
Dude, that is the perfect analogy. That is it.
Everything's fine. Go about your lives.
They're definitely not nuke-sniffing drones. Come on.
Nuke-sniffing drones. So what if some nuclear material was just stolen off a cargo ship? Whatever, whatever.
Guys. All the online conspiracy stuff is crazy, and I get a lot of it because obviously what I do.
Of course. And people send me all kinds of stuff.
I was like, well, hang on a second. I wish I could put boots on the ground.
But no, there's something really weird going on. And the fact that they don't know or they're claiming that they don't know what it is.
And here's another really funny thing. I actually, in the program that I did now, and I hope you get a chance to watch it because it's crazy, it's got...
Tell people what it is. Okay, so basically I was talking to you about earlier...
Tell people the title the whole thing. It's called The Program.
It's going to be on... It just came out.
It's at number one right now. It's on Amazon.
When did it come out? Yesterday. Oh, beautiful.
I know. So it came out yesterday.
It's on Amazon. It's on Apple TV.
And you can Google the, because the algorithms are just starting to catch up with it on Google right now. Because everyone's like, I can't find it.
Look up the program and then Google James Fox UFO documentary, the program. You will 100% find it.
It's being also made available internationally.

They're working as fast as they can to get it up.

It just went up yesterday.

It's the most independent film from start to finish that I've ever made. And it covers what happened because everybody thinks the government suddenly had this epiphany to decide to be more transparent with the general public.
That's not what happened. What happened is there were a couple of Intel insiders in the Pentagon reviewing some of this classified data or so-called classified data and resigned in protest of excessive secrecy.
They found a loophole. This is Lou, probably Jay Stratton.
I don't know for sure. Definitely Chris Mellon.
And they walked these evidence tapes out of the Pentagon through this loophole. They bent the rules a little bit and onto the front page of the New York Times.
Right. So that happened.
And it got it was just it was exploded. You remember that.
And since then, there has been this unprecedented push by a bipartisan group of lawmakers to find out what the intelligence agencies know and when they knew it. And so that started happening behind the scenes, right? So it was 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021.
And then in 2022, they were like, we're having a congressional hearing. Congressman Andre Carson, I think he's of Wisconsin, but I'm not positive.
He put on, he spearheaded the first open congressional hearing, public open congressional hearing. And in that congressional hearing.
Congressman Andre Carson, I think he's of Wisconsin, but I'm not positive, he put on, he spearheaded the first open congressional hearing, public open congressional hearing. And in that congressional hearing, they acknowledged the fact that the phenomenon was real.
It was slowly introduced that we were not getting told the facts. There was a document that came out called the Wilson Davis Memo, and that was about the discovery by a former DIA guy, Admiral Wilson, of the crash retrieval program that was like maybe 20, 20 plus years ago.
And none of the names or anything in that document were redacted. I cover that memo in the film.
And then 2023, another congressional hearing. This time it was David Grush talking about the crash retrieval program.
It's been a steady progression. And so a lot has gone on between 2017 and 2024.
And that is what this film does is it covers behind the scenes effort, bipartisan group of lawmakers effort to find out what the intelligence agencies really know. Yeah.
And people that were, you know, and in one of one of them, it's, there's an encounter. And I think I remember you hearing about it because you wanted to get ahold of David Grush.
And so you contacted me and I actually had a, I actually had a drone up in the air in England. And I was like, I know.
And I had, I had my phone attached to my drone thing because that's what it was using as a controller for the screen. And I'm flying the drone and there was a huge wind windmill, and I saw this windmill, and I was like, that's going to make a beautiful shot for the movie, and it is in the movie.
So I'm up there flying it, and the wind, the turbines are going right. This episode is brought to you by my friends at Black Rifle Coffee.
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Round and round. And I can't quite tell how close my drone is to him.
Oh, no. So I'm paying really good attention and I'm getting close to these big turbines and all of a sudden my phone's ringing and it's you.
I'm like, oh my God, I can't not answer this. I got to answer.
So I answered it while my drone was up there. Oh, no.
And we talked briefly, and you said, hey, can you get me in touch with David Grush? I said, yeah, I got a guy that I can put you in touch with. That was Jason Sands.
And I guess you and Jason Sands talked about this alleged encounter in 1994 with this entity, alien, whatever you want to call him, in the desert. Yes.
So that was a crazy story. Crazy story.
But in any case, so when you watch the movie movie in the program you'll see the drone flying dangerously close to these and that's funny a little inside thing so it didn't crash didn't crash but i was on the phone with you when it happened but when you watch the footage it's like wow that's really close is that guy public with that story he well so because otherwise i would discuss it yeah yeah uh because it sounded so nutty. No, no, yeah.
Okay, so here's what happened. This is funny because when I was in Washington, D.C.
with Mellon and this gentleman, Jason Sands, I'm using his name now. Mellon looked at me and he goes, this guy's story is pretty wild.
I was like, what do you mean? He goes, really wild. And we're sitting down having dinner and Chris Mellon orders, he orders a, he orders a drink.
He had a tequila, so whatever. Anyway, and we were all having dinner and Jason Sands starts telling the story about this alleged encounter in 1994 and it's one of the craziest stories and I've been doing this for 30 years and this story is nuts, okay? You remember.
Oh yeah. So, Yeah, I went like this to my phone.
He was telling it to me like this one. Yeah, me too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Me too.
It was one of those, wait, wait, what the fuck did you just say? Insane. Tell everybody what he said.
I will. I'll get to that in one second.
This is the reason why I can discuss it publicly. I know.
The reason why I can discuss it publicly is because he was going to appear anonymously in the movie. And I was debating on exactly how to go about doing this because I was torn because you got a statement from an individual.
You don't have his identity. But I was in D.C.
I put the whole thing down and I said, look, he was worried about his security. He was a whistleblower.
He'd already testified to a number of Senate Intel communities, Senate Armed Service Committee. All about the UFO phenomenon? Yeah, about the UFO phenomenon.
Part of the UOP task force, they found him, and he was giving them information and reporting on things. And so he goes, I'm really fearful.
I don't know if this witness protection program is going to be that helpful. I'm just, I'm worried.
I said, look, if you're concerned about the story getting out or not getting out, if you want, I'm here. You can come to our studio.
We could film you on camera. And if anything happens to you, it could be released.
And it could be a little insurance policy for yourself. He goes, that sounds great.
Let's do it. So I did a whole film about it.
And then I'm periodically posting clips or just still frames and updates on the movie as I'm making it, as I do on social media. And I posted this one scene and it had a clipboard on in the scene.
And on that clipboard, if you zoomed right in, it had his name. So I posted the by accident.
I posted the damn thing. And my phone starts blowing up 10 minutes later.
You just reveal this guy. What are you doing? Take it down.
Take it down. Take it out.
Too late, too late. So it was out there and he's getting all kinds of heat.
So as a result of it, I'm giving the truncated version. He basically had to go through the Dobson process, which is basically pre-publication of authorization of what you can and cannot say.
Excuse me. So he basically could talk about a number of cases that were in the film.
We had to blurb out one particular word, which in the movie, it's blurred out. We had to do that.
That was that was Dobbser. So it was the winter of 1994.
There was a unidentified flying object that was picked up on the base. Old school UFO.
Oh, yes, sir. It was a UFO.
It was picked up on the base. Old school UFO.
Yes, sir. It was a UFO.
It was picked up on the base and it was recorded by sensory data and it was picked up on camera. It had camera footage of it from different locations.
What did it look like? It looked like a weird shape. It was an unusual shape and there's people talking about it.
It's in the movie. The film is in the movie? The film footage that leaked from the base is in the movie.
So you can see what it looks like flying around? Kind of, yeah. It's kind of blurry in some spots and yeah, you'll see it.
It's in the program. It's in the program, yeah.
And then you hear all the voices. I actually had the voices cleaned up.
You can hear people talking about, what the hell is it? Is there a clip we could see online? Just so I could show people what it looks like? Damn. I'm sorry.
Could you maybe just say the actual name of the incident? Maybe Jamie can find it. Yeah, try and find it.
It's Nellist Test Range UFO 1994. See if you can find it.
People put stuff up so quick. It's long and it's really bad.
Yeah, true. Good point.
Because it's on Amazon right now. People put clips up so fast.
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, and there's other things on there.
So in any case, so that video. Bam, there it is.
Oh, that's terrible. There's much better footage of it.
Yeah, there's much better footage of it. It's in my movie.
I had it cleaned up. But yeah, that's it, basically.
Can I see it again? So that's what it looked like? Wait, the footage I have is way better than this yeah sometimes it's so Jesus Christ you know what that looks like Jamie? It's a very weird shape Jamie you know what that looks like? it looks like Terrence Howard's creation doesn't it? it's weird what does he call But it was those things that lock together. Those, you know, the flying drone thing that he created.
Linchpins. Linchpins.
Yeah. Terrence Howard created this fascinating concept for like a drone where it's like propellers going all these different directions and they they sync up and they link together.
And it looks like that. Oh, yeah.
So it's – anyway, so it's footage, people talking about it. What is it? We don't know.
It's not identified. And it flies around the base, and that leaked.
And the names of the witnesses leaked. Three days later – Can you explain – sorry to keep cutting you off, but can you just say what it did, like how it moved? It just...
It was like... It didn't have any visible means of propulsion.
It didn't have any wings. It didn't have propellers.
It just looked like an object, a round sort of object, weird shape, almost like a helmet or something with things coming off of it. And it was just moving around the base.
How fast? Nobody... Slowly at times...
Oh, this. That's exactly it.
It's definitely not a big balloon? No, you hear everybody talking about it. The audio that goes along with it, and I had it cleaned up, they're all talking.
Nobody knows what it is. So this is Zoom? Is this why it's moving around like that? They're trying to keep it in focus, and're zooming on it? It's all, Mr.
Sands explains all of that in the film, the program. He talks about it.
So anyway, so this leaks. People's names, the witnesses leaks.
And three days later, he's in a convoy. Gesundheit.
He's in a convoy, and it's early in the morning, and there's three Jeeps, trucks, Jeeps, in convoy on a dirt road heading out Nellis Test Range. And they see what looks like maybe somebody was involved in a plane crash, somebody that was struggling out in the middle of the desert.
It was early in the morning, wintertime, and they're looking at this individual like, oh, my God, is that a person? That individual needs some help. That individual looks like they need some help.
They look cold. Their skin had a slight blue tint to it.
And they're looking at this gentleman, and they're like, hey, stop the convoy. This person needs help, medical attention.
Maybe they had a plane crash, and so we're going to help this person out. And they pull the convoy over, and this individual comes up to the car.

Jason Sands gets out the right side of the door, and as he's getting out, somebody in the truck screams,

he's got no effing ears.

And Jason says, he turns around and he looks at this guy,

and he had the same kind of uniform that they had had on,

but the uniform was just immaculate.

Like, there wasn't any dust on it, no dust on the boots. And he was thinking to myself, well, that's weird.
This guy's got no ears. Is this guy some kind of mutant? And he looks at him and he said his eyes were a lot bigger.
It's all illustrated in the movie. And then he starts talking like he said it was like a snake bite.
I mean, he was just paralyzed with fear. It was really scary.
What am I looking at? Is this a human? Is this a mutant? Is this an alien? What is this? And he starts talking to him in gibberish, but he said he started to understand like telepathically everything this person or an entity, being, creature, alien, whatever you want to call it, was saying to him and he was looking for some kind of metal. And he didn't know tantillium.
And Jason's head is like, you know, I don't know. I don't have any.
You mean titanium? He's like, no, tantillium or something. And this conversation goes on for a bit.
And then the guy just wanders back off and gets into that little craft that looked very similar to what you just saw there and flies away and he sort of stair-stepped away and everybody sort of came out of this comatose state and off and off they went and um we have the names of the other military witnesses that were on duty during the encounter the alleged encounter people are going to criticize me because i'm reporting on a close encounter of the third kind. But this, Jason Sands says he's willing to do a lie detector test like public.
He's willing to testify under oath that everything he's saying is true. We have a date, we have a location, and we have the names of the other on-duty officers.
So what I'm hoping is, despite the level of criticism I'm going to receive for reporting on this, is that other individuals that have more information on this are going to be inclined to come forward. I also met with people in the Senate Armed Service Committee, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, sorry, in the House, and they said Jason Sands is who he says he is.
He checks out. He's named previously classified or classified programs.
He's identified. The guy's legit.
His credentials check out. And so I opted to go ahead and report on it with the hope that more information will come out on it.
Listen, man, there's nothing wrong with reporting on a story like that. There's been a bunch of them.
It's not a small number of these things where people have experienced these things. And imagine if it's true.
If it's true, yeah. not all liars.
I can't believe they're all liars. But imagine being that person who had that experience and not have anybody believe you.
Not only that, but it could actually ruin your reputation and your career to talk about this experience, which is the reality of it. And it's one of the things that stifled discourse on this until I think the New York Times really broke the ice I think in 2017 when they published that all of a sudden serious people who were unwilling to talk about UFOs before just for the ridicule Yeah, now you you've got the gimbal video the go fast video.
You've got fighter pilots commander David Fravor You've got these people discussing these things openly and like okay This seems like something that a serious person can discuss now and so then it's open but actually meeting one and talking to it's like the varginia story like when i told people the the the cop picked it up and carried in the car and the cop died and handled it some horrible bacterial infection that they couldn't cure he was rubbing himself down with rubbing alcohol according, according to his family. He was like, this is greasy stuff on my skin.
And he was rubbing himself down, and he had to stench, smell, grease. Yeah.
And then I interviewed the doctors. There's a couple of, I'm actually going back to Brazil next month.
There are a couple of forensic pathologists that are willing to come forward that we're going to cover, kind of update the movie and re-release. So it's an ongoing investigation.
Wouldn't that be the best protection from an alien planet's bacteria if you had the most vicious bacteria on the surface of your skin? Right? Like imagine, like if you go to another planet and the way to mitigate the effects of viruses and bacteria on that planet is to have skin fluid that's like unbelievably toxic. Anything that comes near you just gets cooked yeah like a skunk right have you ever had a skunk oh yeah i had a skunk got my dog once i i check out this guy's garbage one time and he's like hey it's in my it's in my garage flipped up the thing and drop it in there so i like i was like kind of hung over i was we had a party the night before and i went out to the garbage can and i kind of heard like some rustling in the garbage can, but I didn't really think anything of it, and I lifted up the thing, and then I heard some rustling again.
So I reached out, and I put my head down inside, and the skunk just turned and got me right in the face. Now, I held my breath, and I closed my eyes at the last second, and it went right through me.
It penetrated my molecules. It was so powerful that it was paralyzing.
Absolutely paralyzing. Can you imagine? Just a smell.
That's their way of defense. It's just this stench that just goes through your body and just paralyzes you.
That's crazy. Anyway.
You got it in the mug, huh? I got it right in the face. Wow.
How long did it take before you didn't stink? Because you smell normal now. Probably two weeks.

How long did that wait? It was several weeks.

Yeah, and I tried the tomato and I tried the baking soda.

I think they have special soap now just for skunks.

But when my dog got zapped, she got zapped in like 1980.

I think it was 1980 because I was living in Jamaica Plain.

And she went out in the backyard and I think she thought that it was our cat because we had a cat that was black and white and she just ran right up to that skunk and it took her right in the side of her body. She tried to turn away but it got her all over her body.
She was wet with skunk spade. It was so nasty.
I had to. I had to take her inside, and I had to do it, because she was my dog.

Even though I was 13,

I had to cover her with tomato

juice and wash her down, and she still

stunk. The whole house stunk.

It's so funny, because I was getting ready

for a road trip, this is a couple years ago,

and

I looked over, and I was like,

did we walk Duke? It was like 9 o'clock at night. We were exhausted.
We packed everything up. We had the car ready to go for the next morning.
It's like, did we walk Duke?

It was like 9 o'clock at night.

We were exhausted.

We packed everything up.

We had the car ready to go for the next morning.

It's like, did we walk Duke?

Did you walk Duke?

Take Duke, our dog.

So we died.

I was like, ah, it's 9 o'clock.

I ought to slide him outside.

And I hear him like,

no.

And then he goes,

and I thought, oh my God, he just got eaten.

Somebody just ate him.

I was like, oh my gosh.

I ran out there to look for him and he comes in, and he jumps in bed covered in skunk.

The whole house.

Like, it was so, so strong.

It's unbelievable.

That smell is just like.

It's so incredible.

And the way someone explains this to me, you know, like animals, like bloodhounds and bears.

They have an insane sense of smell.

Oh, God, like 100,000 times stronger than ours, right?

Right.

But they can pick up parts per million the way we pick up skunk.

I'll be right back. like bloodhounds and bears.
They have an insane sense of smell. Oh, God, like 100,000 times stronger than ours, right? Right, but they can pick up parts per million the way we pick up skunk.
Really? Yes. Oh, my God.
So think about that. So if a skunk gets hit by a car like a mile away, you can smell it.
Have you ever driven in your car? I don't know if it's a mile. I can drive over it and then my car smells like it.
Yeah, but if you're in the neighborhood where a skunk got something, you could smell it. Yeah.

For some strange reason.

It permeates.

It carries more than any other smell.

With dogs, that's how they smell everything.

They're like, oh, Roscoe's home.

They can smell things that you can't even imagine they could smell, especially like a bloodhound.

And then a bear can smell like, what is a bear's ability to smell above a bloodhound it's something something crazy my friend was uh sharks in the in the ocean can sense blood from miles away miles miles incredible insane miles away they could smell blood miles away guys something i remember look at this 300 times look at this this is crazy bears are sent the best sense of smell of any animal on earth. For example, average dog's sense of smell is 100 times better than a human's.
A bloodhound's is 300 times better. A bear's sense of smell is 7 times than a bloodhound's, or 2,100 times better than a human's.
Unbelievable. That's why they say when you go camping, put your food up in a tree or something, right? Oh, 100 have to.
Yeah, you can't have it in a tent at all. Oh, when I was a kid, we went camping and the bear broke open our cooler.
Wow. Yeah, people just had regular coolers back there.
You'd have like a little cookie in your pocket and be in bed in your tent. Oh, yeah.
You're going to have an issue. Oh, 100%.
Yeah. Wow.
100%. I remember when I was a kid, I went camping and they were like, don't have any food.
I was like, yeah, whatever.. Like, no, no, no, put that stuff.
They were really adamant. I was like, why are these guys making such a funk? The bear's not going to smell a cookie in my pocket.
Of course they will. They'll look at that like a wonton.
Like, look at that soft outer layer, and there's meat inside of it. They're going to look at that tent.
Like, look, it's trapped in there. Oh, my gosh.
The meat is trapped in the tent. This is crazy.
What was that one movie called where they got the grizzly man or something? Yeah, grizzly man. That's what it's called.
And they came and got him. He thought he became one with the grizzlies and then he got eaten.
That's a very complicated movie. That's a Werner Herzog film.
Yeah, Werner Herzog. Yes.
It's a really funny movie. And the camera was rolling.
And they played it. Sort of.
The camera was rolling, but the lens cap was on, so there was an audio.

So it's just audio.

Yeah.

That's even worse.

The audio, by the way, folks, the audio you hear on the internet, that's fake.

Oh, it is. That's not the real one.

The real audio, Werner Herzog told the lady to destroy it.

Destroy it.

No one should hear this.

So he heard it.

Yeah, he heard it.

It's long.

You know, because bears don't kill you, they eat you.

You know, like a salmon.

They don't kill salmon. They just put their paw down and start pulling chunks off of it.
That's what they do with people, too. That's terrifying.
Well, they don't have any predators, so they don't have to kill things and then, you know, worry about someone taking it from them. You're not taking shit from a bear.
Oh, my God, it's terrifying. Especially a grizzly bear.
You're not taking shit from a bear unless you're a bigger bear. So, like, all the other animals have to worry.
Like, mountain lions kill quick because wolves will steal from mountain lions. And apparently in the areas where wolves have been introduced, it's actually become a problem because mountain lions are killing much more than they normally do.
Because mountain lions will kill, like, a deer, two deer a week, something like that. And eat two deer a week.
That's a lot of meat. Well, they're big.
Wow. A big mountain lion is 150 pounds.
Wow. And it's a big cat.
Their cats are just, they're obligate predators. All they eat is meat.
Bears will eat a little berries. They'll eat a bunch of shit, not cats.
So the cats are killing more because the wolves scare the cats off of the kill. So if the cats on a kill and a bunch of wolves show up the cat will just get the fuck out of there Like fuck because he feels he didn't want to defend himself against the wolves exactly because wolves hunt in packs So there might be 13 14 wolves and one cat the cat will just get the fuck out of there cats run from dogs Right like they have a fear of, like, canines.

And I think it's from wolves stealing their food.

So, like, that's how they hunt cats.

The way they hunt them, you have to tree them.

Because otherwise, you're not going to find them.

If you find a mountain lion-

What do you mean by tree them?

You have to get the dogs to bark them up a tree.

Oh, wow.

So they run up a tree and then they shoot them when they're in a tree.

Oh, shit.

Yeah.

And it sounds cruel.

Wow.

But listen, they have to do that to manage the populations. If they don't, they start eating dogs.
That's what you get in San Francisco. California still kills mountain lions.
They kill as many mountain lions as they would if they gave tags out to people to kill them. Because you have to kill certain numbers of them for depredation.
Because they'll start killing livestock, they'll start killing dogs. In the Bay Area, the problem cats that they wound up killing in San Francisco, half their diet was pets.
Really? Half their diet. Half their diet was house cats.
People's cats. Dogs and cats.
That's half their diet. Half of their diet.
So you manage a hundred plus pound cat and he's running around just eating dogs You leave your dog in your backyard gone Happens all the time. Wow.
It happened to my dog. Really? Yeah, my dog in Colorado got eaten by a mountain lion It happens.
Oh god. I feel so bad for my little guy.
It's terrible. Not there to protect my little fella You know one time I was I was hiking up this mountain and i had my son with me at the time and he was in that little pouch you know that little pouch that you put in the front like he was like probably like maybe two two and a half and i was hiking this mountain pretty daily it's funny actually because when i went up there without him i was like well this is why people hike with weights on this feels amazing i could run up this mountain but anyway i was going to the mountain and I had my dog, my little, little Duke, and I had my, my son walking up this mountain and, uh, I come around this, like go to left hand.
It's a, it's a pretty exposed, not too many trees, some bushes, and it's a hot, sunny day. And I see this leg of a deer, like just fresh kill with blood on the ground.
I was like, God damn, what the hell? The hell looked, wow, that's fresh. I was like, huh.
I kind of keep going and come around the corner and there's a long straightaway. The hill goes up like this.
And I see what looks like a big, like greyhound dog, kind of like brown, kind of walking kind of back and forth like this with a tail and I was like man who the hell's greyhound is doing out here like what the hell is that's a mountain lion i was like holy shit and the mountain lion turns around and looked at me and i had my kid i was like shit i so i grabbed my dog and i turned around and i started running and i knew that i shouldn't be running so i'm running going i shouldn't be running i shouldn't be running. I know I shouldn't be running but I wanted to get around the corner and get out of his line of sight.
And then I go well if he comes up on me I'm going to have to throw my dog. I was like I looked at Duke and if it comes down to it Duke you're going to have to take one for the team.
Oh my god. That's a horrible choice.
It was horrible choice, but I had my son. Of course.
I get it. But I remember looking at him, and I was looking at my dog going, oh, man, this is a horrible decision I have to make.
But if it comes down to it, I'm going to have to sacrifice you, buddy. I love you.
But it didn't come down to it. But I remember running going, you're an idiot, James.
Why are you running? You're not supposed to be running. You can't run.
Well, that's the problem with mountain bikers. They get got because when they pass by a cat, it's almost like rolling a ball of yarn past a kitten.
They're predators. And they'll catch bikes, huh? Oh, yeah.
They get people on bikes. Yeah, that's happened a few times.
They get people on bikes. They get joggers, people on bikes.
They think you're running away from them. Could you imagine what it was like to be running for your life, having something like that chase you? Yeah, I can.
I mean, it hasn't happened to me, but I've seen them. I've seen three of them in my lifetime.
Only one of them that scared the shit out of me. I saw one in Colorado.
I saw one in Montecito, like the Santa Barbara area. It was small.
Those are small ones. They were like 50, 60 pounds.
And then I saw one with a buddy of mine, my friend Colton and I. We spotted one under a tree that was 30 yards away.
And we were in a truck and it made me shit my pants. Wow.
It was so big. It was so big.
This one was really big. This was a mature male with a big pumpkin head and huge forearms like a fucking bodybuilder.
It was freaky. It was freaky to see because, you know, it was, first of all, it was dusk.
So the sun was going down and the lights of the truck, even though it wasn't quite dark yet, the lights of the truck were making his eyes glow. Oh my God.
And you can see him with the naked eye, but then I put my binoculars on. And so I've got these 10 power binoculars and I'm zoomed in on this thing's face.
I'm like, holy shit. Looks like he belongs in Africa.
Well, he belonged right where he was, man. We didn't belong there.
Let me tell you a really cool story that's a UFO, the best UFO picture I think has ever taken. Do you have it? Can I look at it or are you going to tease me? No, no, no.
We're going to look for it. Okay, so can you find the program trailer on here at all? Yeah, for sure.
All right, find the program trailer.

I'm going to tell you about this.

Is this the trailer?

Yeah, this is the trailer.

Let's just watch the trailer.

All right, let's watch it.

It's a story exposing a secret government program

investigating UFOs.

That story was kind of a catalyst

for a lot of things that have happened since.

Members of Congress started to ask questions.

Instruments report there is something there.

There are flight characteristics that we can't explain. UAPs are unexplained.
It's true. They need to be investigated.
Here we are having a hearing where just a few years ago, we didn't even acknowledge that these things were real. Do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs? Absolutely, based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years.
You're telling me people have come forward claiming first-hand knowledge of craft of non-human origin. That's correct.
We have sources who have asserted not only that there have been crashes, but there have been crash retrievals. Do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft? Biologics came with some of these recoveries.
Were they human or non-human? Non-human. I'm sitting here today because the American people are being lied to.
We are the American government and we are open and we're going to be open about this. What has been revealed, non-human intelligence exists, non-human intelligence has been interacting with humanity, is only part of the story.
The pressure's on. The Pentagon and the CIA are going to have to answer the mail.
Some are risking everything. Have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life? Yes, personally.
To uncover the rest. What is being done to verify the assertion that the U.S.
government has spaceships of non-human intelligence in their possession? That kind of revelation unearths people's beliefs. How do we go to jail to say things that I've been exposed to in the program? Bro, was that Mick Jagger? Was that other guy Mick Jagger? Isn't he amazing? That's Hal Puthoff.
Hal Puthoff? Oh, yeah, I know. Mick Jagger's in there.
That doesn't look like Mick Jagger. That's not Mick Jagger? That's Gary McKinnon.
He's the biggest computer hacker in history. Let me see what he looks like.
He almost went to jail for life because he was like, I'm going to find out what the government knows about UFOs. So he hacked into the systems NSA, CIA, DIA, like...
Where is he? Yeah, you want to see that really cool picture? No, in the film. Oh yeah, yeah.
Towards the end. He looks exactly like Mick Jagger.
That's really funny you should say that because I saw it and I'm like, wait a minute. That does look like a rock star.
He is a rock star in the UFO community. It's coming up.
You'll have to pause it quickly when it hits. But Gary McKinnon took it upon himself, a computer hacker, to find out if the government had proof of alien visitation.
And he spent a couple years hacking systems and he got pay dirt. There he is.
That was it.'s that's mick jagger that doesn't look like mick jagger mick jaggers in the ufos you should just like only show that clip you know like they do in horror movies where the mask is not that good it's real quick yeah but so well i was going to tell you there's a photograph of a jet circulating can i can i go into a little bit of detail because everyone's always worried about like where's the good evidence where's the good photograph show me that photograph again so So it's, yeah, there's a photograph of a jet circulating. Can I go into a little bit of detail? Yes, please, please.
Because everyone's always worried about, like, where's the good evidence? Where's the good photograph? Show me that photograph again. So it's, yeah, there we go.
This was a lost photograph that was recovered, correct? Yeah, yeah. You know about this? Yeah, I know about this.
Okay, so I heard about this in the late 90s. Tell everybody about it.
Okay, so there was a guy, Nick Pope, who investigated, he was part of the UFO desk at the Ministry of Defense of England in the late 90s. Mid to late 90s.
Maybe in as late as early 2000s. But in any case, and I was interviewing him for a number of my films.
I did a film called Out of the Blue, I Know What I Saw, before I did The Phenomenon. And I asked him, like, hey man, you were part of the UFO desk at the MOT.
What was the best case you ever saw? And he goes, oh, man, 1990. He didn't give me the town.
It was Calvine. But he said, Scotland, there were two poachers.
They called them hikers, but they were actually poaching. And so it made me think about this when we were talking about animals earlier.
And he said it was late in the afternoon. They were in a place.
I now know it's called Calvine. And they came upon in this relatively remote area.
I know because I hiked out to the exact spot, and it's in the movie. And they came upon this diamond-shaped or disc-shaped object that was quite large that was hovering silently really close.
I mean close. And they they were scared to death and they were kind of hiding out underneath this tree.
And they're looking at this thing. What the are we looking at? And they're looking at this thing as it's silently hovering.
Remember, this is 1990. And one of them had a camera.
And just as he was considering taking his camera out, a military jet came in. Turns out it was one of those Harrier jet.
They think it was a Harrier jet. And it came out into the scene and it flew all the way around the disc.
And as it did so, the guy mustered up the courage, came out from under the tree, and he snapped five or six photographs of this object suspended in the air and it went so the disc is here and the plane is flying around it's click click click click click click click and the reason why i know this is because the individual who kept one of the prints thank you very much craig lindsey raf press officer and thank you, David Clark, for uncovering this because it's the most amazing picture ever. And the two hotel workers in just outside the town of Calvine, Scotland, came back and they were like telling their co-workers, oh my God, we encountered this thing.
We don't know what it was. So they go to the local newspaper and they were like, hey man, we just filmed something in the the sky we got six prints of it they it was i was it was 35 millimeter film footage right and uh and they're going to go public with their story two witnesses broad daylight a ufo points of reference with a military jet flying around five or six prints that's pretty solid evidence right so uh the local newspaper was like uh they're about to go public with it print print the story and they were like well we need a statement from the RAF so they contact the press officer Craig Lindsay and they were like hey what do you make of this UFO these guys took and the guy Craig Lindsay goes I don't know what you're talking about I I haven't seen the picture you haven haven't seen it? Well, let me send you a print.
This is the newspaper. Sends him a print, big print like this, the one you see today.
And he's like, holy shit, the hell is this? He's an RAF press officer, Craig Lindsay. So he starts getting in touch with the MOD, and he goes out and he investigates this, go talk to the witnesses, talk to the witnesses, and they were telling they were telling him and he goes well they tell him what happened and he goes well what kind of noise did it make and they say it didn't make any noise no he goes no noise that's impossible you know an object that can hover like that in the sky for that period of time we're talking 34 years ago didn't make any noise and uh the witness said no so he was like, holy, this is crazy.
So he takes a color Xeroxing machine and he sends it to the MOD in London. And he says, hey, there's a case that you might want to check, you know, you might want to look into.
And here's a Xerox, which is really crappy. It's just a, it's just a scanned Xerox, like a fax machine over to MOD.
He said he went from the office where the Xerox machine was, and before he can get back to his office, his phone was ringing off the hook. MOD.
And the MOD basically stepped in, took over the investigation. They said, you can step down to Craig Lindsay.
He steps down. He keeps the print, right? He steps down.
They take over. Witnesses gone.
Five or six prints gone story killed right so 30 and we'd rumored about it because nick pope had talked about this case in a book he wrote called uh open skies closed minds and then i talked to him about it in late late 90s then i talked to him about it again in the early 2000s and i was like nick especially in 2007 i was like tell me about this photograph he's like oh it was incredible we had a big poster of it on the wall the mod and i was like well where is it he goes well i don't know i stepped down i'm no longer at the ufo desk and i said well they didn't just throw that away once you get in touch with the people that were there and find out he's like oh you know james i can't just make those inqu just make those inquiries. We killed the story.
It was like, you know, so I was incredibly frustrated. So discreetly for over a 20 year period, I was making inquiries because I don't like letting things go, right? It was like, this picture exists and bloody hell, let's get this one out there.
But the story went dark. So David Clark found Craig Lindsay and the way he found Craig Lindsay, the guy that kept one of the prints, is that he got a declassified government document out of the MOD's office that had redactions on it.
And one of the things it said was, it was 1990, and they said, RAF press officer in Scotland, blacked out, you know, said that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, huh, who was the RAF press officer in 1990 in Scotland? Craig Lindsay.
Boom. Contacts Craig Lindsay.
They started communication going. And then after like.
So much for redactions. Yeah.
So much for redactions. Right.
And so this whole dialogue starts going and there's, you know, developing a, and, and then, um, he goes, well, gosh, I, I might, I guess I might have one. It turns out he ended up keeping one of those prints which he had and that story broke probably two years ago.
David Clark, again, I can't thank you enough. You deserve accolades for this.
And so I flew to England. I met with David Clark and his crew, the people that did the analysis work.
Then I went up to Scotland. I met with Craig Lindsay, the RF press officer, gave me the first and only on-camera interview about it, what astonished him about it, the analysis work they did on it, what the witnesses said.
But we didn't have the witnesses, the people that took the photograph. We didn't have them, but I was going to report on this anyway just because, wow, this is the picture that we've all been waiting for.
This picture is phenomenal. But if you don't have provenance and you don't have the background story on it, it could be AI, it could be right, it could be a hoax.
Some people call it a reflection. Not a reflection, not a hoax.
So I'm ending production of the program and I get a text from David Clark and he goes, something big is about to happen. And I said, what? He goes, just sit tight.
I can't go public right now, but something big is going to happen. There's a new development.
And this is just... I hate teases.
Well, I'm coming out with that, I promise. But he teased you.
I hate it. He did tease me.
But I was like, well, I'm almost done with the movie. And if this is something I can include in the movie about the case, please let me know.
So long story short, this guy, Richard Greaves, who was one of the hotel cooks, worked in the kitchen with the photographers, with the two witnesses that took the photograph. and Richard Greaves who was one of the hotel cooks worked in the kitchen with the photographers with the two witnesses that took the photograph and Richard Greaves came forward on print but I contacted David Clark I was like hey can you get me an interview with this guy so he kept putting it off putting it off putting it off and then finally I was like I didn't want to be I wanted to persistent, but I didn't want to annoy the guy to the point where he's going like, Hey, you know what? Like you, like you're, you're, you're being annoying, you know? But I got it right up to that point.
Right. When I was like, I was wrapping the movie, the movie's done and I want to get this movie out because all the people that participated wanted it out.
And then I finally sent him one final text and I was like, look, I'm really sorry to pastor you. And I know you're probably really really busy and I really appreciate the fact that you even said that you'll meet with me but that you'll give me an interview and then probably about 10 o'clock that night I'm in the edit room buttoning the film up and all of a sudden I get a phone call and he's like I've just come out the pub I'm ready to go I was like okay grab a camera roll it let's record this and he reveals that he knew the witnesses.

He worked with them in the kitchen. He gave all the specifics.
He provided their names. And then he said that two or three nights after, two or three nights, four nights after they took that photograph, they were all on a cigarette break at the hotel early evening, pissing rain.
He said a car rolled up. There were three guys in it, a driver and two men in suits in the back.
They roll up. They come out.
They say cigarette breaks over. They pull the two witnesses aside, and they grill him.
And you've got to hear it directly from the horse's mouth. Richard Greaves said that when they were all, the people that were not involved with the incident were told to go back inside the hotel, which they did, but they looked through the window and they saw in the pissing rain, he said they were out there for 10 or 15 minutes in the pissing rain, and that these guys, they came back inside and they were white as a, he literally goes, they came back inside, they were white as a fucking ghost! Which we all get a good laugh out of.

And then they started drinking heavily,

and within a couple of weeks, they vanished without

a trace, and they've been gone ever since.

So we report on this.

That's a replica.

It's way too clear.

That's a replica from Nick Pope

that he did it for some series, talking about it.

And that was before

the real photograph was found and printed. Let's see the real photograph.
Yeah, show the real photograph again. I got it in, there it is.
Yep. Okay, so what was he doing? Show the fake one one more time.
Yeah, that's a recreation before it leaked out. So was he just recreating what he remembered? Yes.
Can we see the real one again? It's pretty damn good, isn't it, that he remembered that. Not bad.
Not bad. Missed the barbed wire fence, but not mad.
Put in a bunch of bullshit background. I went to the exact location.
What all the bullshit he put in there? Put in beautiful hills. I know.
And that fence is still there. Go back to the real one? Yeah, that fence is still there.
I took an actual, I took a modern day. So what is that jet in the background? A Harrier jet is what I'm told.
They're 99% sure. And was that Harrier jet trying to figure out what this was? Well, like I said, in the other prints, according to Craig Lindsay, the RAF press officer, he said the other six prints or five prints had that Harrier jet in a different position.
So he said it was as if the Harrier jet flew around checking that out. Now, where are those other prints? We have other M.O.D.
just ever gone. They killed

the story. I mean, the guy at the M.O.D.
who worked

there, Nick Pope, told me that they did

everything they could to squash it because... Don't you think

they probably have it filed away somewhere?

Of course they do. Of course they didn't throw those pictures

away. They killed the story.
Can you zoom in on this, Jeremy, please?

Yeah, that's a really crap copy. You're

looking at a really bad prank, you guys.

Can you zoom in? I've got a much better...

I've got a much better version of it.

You got it on your phone? Yeah, I do. Text it to a

homie. This image

to just... at a really bad break.
I've got a much better version of it. You got it on your phone? I do.
Text it to a homie. This image is weird.
Yeah. Because it's hard to see what you're looking at, you know? It's, yeah.
Well, let me show you a much better copy of it. Hang on.
Let me just scroll up here because I've got a really good... I got the original print of this copy.
But, you know, people talk about

the more compelling

data and the lengths. So this is

the photograph that

I took at the site.

You can get an idea of that. Okay.

See how similar?

Yeah, it looks exactly the same.

And then here is...

Here's the print. And I could text that to you guys if you want yeah text that to me i'll text it i'll text it to you guys send both of them this is it's very interesting very interesting case i mean it's again i think it's one of the best photographic cases because you're not dealing with just a ufo you've got a military jet in the background and if you have a date and a location guess what that pilot's still out there That pilot can probably got it on radar and probably got gun cam for it He's still alive if well he would have been probably Young right pilots are young sure he would have been his 30s or maybe early 40s and that was 34 years ago So chances are he's still alive.
They're pretty fit, right? Yeah, maybe he's in the 70s. Okay, I'm going to text this to you right now.
Here we go. Boom.
You should have that. Did I get you all? Did I get all of them to you? And here is a picture of Craig Lindsay.
This is great. You're going to love this.
Okay, this is the guy that kept it.

I didn't get it yet.

You didn't?

No.

I wonder if it's because I have my phone on airplane mode.

Yeah, take it off airplane mode, bro.

I told you to do that. Okay.

Oh, you did?

I was trying to explain to you.

Oh, sorry.

Okay, it's off now.

I'm sorry.

Otherwise, it won't actually send it.

Oh, it won't.

Okay.

All right.

Here we go.

Here we go.

It's like dealing with my dad.

I know.

I'm so bad.

I know.

You were telling me how to do it.

I was like, I haven't done that before.

It's funny.

People don't understand how to use their phones. Tell me if that goes through.
Okay. I'm waiting bad.
I know. You were telling me how to do it.
I was like, I haven't done that before. It's funny.
People don't understand how to use their phones.

Tell me if that goes through.

Okay. I'm waiting on it still.
Okay. Great, great shot.
You need me to send it? Here, you do it. Here, there's that one, and there's flip left to right on it.
But, you know, it just goes to show the lengths that the Intel community, the Ministry of Defense, the DOD go to hide the more compelling photographic data because it's so easy to complain like, oh, well, if they were real, there would be good... Well, there are some really good prints.
You got Joe Exotic in your phone. Go on, dude.
You guys are looking at other stuff. I found drones that you can...
I don't know that they're commercially available necessarily. Did you get all the ones you wanted? But you can have a drone up for 24 plus hours.
That didn't send it to me either. Are you serious? Yeah.
So weird. Am I sending it to the wrong telephone number? Let me just check.
Let me see the number you have. You might have my old phone.
Well, I definitely have it on signal. Here, you do it.
Here, fuck it. You take over.
You drive. Let me see.
Because I'm clearly failing at this one. I'm just going to check to see what I sent it to because I changed my number because people get weird.
Oh, I can totally imagine that would be the case. I found some drones that these companies say that you can take off anywhere.
They're showing them taking off from small platforms in the ocean. They can stay up in the air for 14-plus hours.
They're small, and they do have propellers. I will say that.
Yeah. And like I said, it's not the question is, are all these drones explainable by aliens? And the answer obviously is no.
The question is, are any of these bona fide UAP? And there's definitely some evidence to suggest that's the case. But again, there's always misidentification of more conventional stuff, right? Right.
And there's always, and then there's a stubborn core percent. Like, I'll give you an example.
This is something that I've discussed a little bit recently. Did you find it okay? Yes.
Okay, good. Finally, we got that enigma worked out.
Yeah, it's just your 5G is very slow. Oh, really? Yeah, you're using AT&T.
What are you using? Oh, I'm using Verizon. Verizon.
I use Verizon, too. Really? Yeah, it's just real slow.
Do I have, whatchamacalliton? I accidentally sent myself these other ones of the guy holding it up, too. Oh, cool.
Yeah, that's cool. That's Craig Lindsay.
So I'll send this to you you Jamie. So let me tell you a little a little story.
It's pretty cool Which I never thought that this would happen. I There's a guy Kirk McConnell who's Senate Armed Service Committee and he participated the very last minute in my in my film He's in the trailer and he in an official capacity with a high-level clearance He had been investigating UFOs ever since the New York Times article in 2017 so he was behind the scenes 2017 2018 tail end of 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 22 23 24 and then he stepped down and he came through some Intel folks we got in touch and I said hey man my done.
If you want, I could squeeze in one final interview. He decided to participate.
Up he went. We became friends.
We've been talking. And he said, hey, I could probably arrange a meeting because there's some mutual interest in some UFO cases and evidence that I've been going after as a civilian.
But he goes, hey, on the inside, if you want, I can hook you up with the heads of Arrow, the new heads of Arrow, John Koskowski, and this other guy, Ryan, who was Air Force Office Special Investigations. This is just a couple weeks ago.
So I went to the congressional hearings, which was incredible. And people say, oh, it was a big nothing burger.
But you know what? It was very exciting. Seeing people testify under oath that there's a crash for evil program, seeing a rear admiral, Tim Gallaudetet saying that they're under the water i mean it's pretty fascinating stuff yeah so um i had to i had to apply for a security background on me which was about 48 hours and then i got approval for that and then i showed up at a wing across the street from the pentagon and i had to go through the metal detector and then there there are these, kind of exciting for me, because I had never had this kind of experience before, where there were these glass tube-type things that were lined up, like, in a row.
And only one person can go in at a time. The doors open, just like in Star Trek, and you walk in, and that door closes, and another one opens, and you go through the other side.
Then I had to get rid of my phone and everything and leave it outside. And then I'd go into a SCIF, which is a sensitive compartmented, uh, information facility.
A SCIF is all super top secret, whatever. And, uh, and I got to meet with the new head of Arrow, John Koskowski.
I was like, I can't believe I'm in the belly of the beast. This is crazy.
Like I, how, how could I, I'm a civilian. I don't, I don't belong here.
But we started talking, just very nonchalantly. You know, I said, hey, you guys got to throw us a bone.
I said, you know, we're not going away. This story is not going away.
And I said, and you know what we're ultimately dealing with. I mean, obviously the vast majority of UAP or UFOs can be and have been explained away in down-to-earth conventional terms, right? But there's a stubborn core 15%, 20% that really defy conventional explanation, not because of a lack of data, because they truly can't explain what these things do.
And you know well, you've had many people on. These objects exhibit a technology that's just light years advanced from anything that we have.
And it's been well documented since the 1940 1940s and possibly some people would say way before that, but modern day UFO wave, no question.

So there's two, you know, two stories.

One is someone's been in possession of this revolutionary technology for 85 plus years

and kept it secret or two, we're not alone.

Right.

Right.

NHI.

So I said, I said to the gentleman very candidly, you know, we're probably dealing with a small percentage of NHI. And what's the plan to tell the general public? And this is just a couple of weeks ago.
And he looked at me and he goes, James, I can't part my hair without approval from the DOD. And you can quote me on that.
And that was him, in my opinion, telling me, hey, this is structured in a way

that my hands are tied. I can uncover all the things in the world, but I can't tell the general

public or even Congress without the DOD approving it first. So that's what's kind of happening right

now. And one of the reasons why we were so fortunate to get the number of, I say, whistleblowers or

potential whistleblowers or people to come forward in the program is because they were super frustrated with the previous head of Arrow, which is a guy named Sean Kirkpatrick, which basically just kind of blanket, you know, denied pretty much almost everything. And people were extremely disappointed with that.
Just like Blue Book. Yeah, kind of like Blue Book, yeah.
They've always done that, right? Yeah, but, yeah. But again, it brings us back.
But not everybody's doing it. Not everybody's doing it.
Right. There's a bunch of, well, I think now also with the internet, there's ways to get information out that's much quicker and cleaner.
No question. Than trusting a reporter.
Yeah. You know, and then your life's in danger.
Yeah. And the reporter gets threatened.
Yeah. Yeah, now things just kind of get out.
So, well, I've thought about this. Like, you know, I'm going back to brazil and i thought you know i'm obviously going after you know additional eyewitness testimony i'm going out to the photographic stuff and those of you out there that are like tired of hearing about it well i spent 20 plus years in search of the photograph that i featured just now that one with the background story on it provenance that sort of thing jamie go look at the one that i sent you it's a better version yeah and and so i just because you've you know you can't after a year or two haven't successfully obtained stuff so this is a better yeah it's a better version that you can see the granular of the film footage weird it's almost looks like there's something in the back it does look a little bit like that propeller or something likeller or something, like a Jetsons type thing.
But let's just say. And that thing was silent, supposedly? Silent.
According to the witnesses, it didn't make any sound. It hovered there for an extended period of time.
And when it took off, it took off straight vertical like this. Straight up.
Fast? It started going fast, faster, faster, faster, and then it was gone. Yep, that was Craig Lindsay who interviewed the witnesses who told me that and it's so weird though according to richard greaves in scotland the americans got involved of course we get involved in everything yep they showed up and they intimidated the shit out of the witnesses and i i know people can criticize me for reporting on these alleged men in black but it's not me saying it it's the witnesses that are saying it and i did it full bore for the first time full bore for the first time in moment of contact because i remember hearing these stories for decades and i finally was like everyone's gonna think i'm crazy if i report on this but this lady who was the mother of the two daughters that saw that had these visits and the intimidation and i was like screw it i'm just gonna report on this and i'll just take the criticism you know and then I wasn't expecting this for the to be the case with this photograph but lo and behold it was but um anyway uh it's it's a huge story it in my opinion they can't put the genie back in the bottle it's coming out and it's drip drip drip but I have to audience, people that are feeling impatient, that we've had three open congressional hearings in the last three years.
Yeah. We hadn't had any in over 50 years prior to that.
It's definitely, even though it's still difficult to get information and figure out what's actually going on, there's way more open mainstream discussion of it. And it's frustrating at times.
I get it. You know, people are like, oh, well, why are all these people? Why can't they just say, why can't David Grush just tell us? You know, well, I can remind people that the DOD has stripped David Grush of his clearances and won't allow him to get into a skiff.

This is one of the things that I talked to this guy, Brian Benner, who appears in the movie Politico, and he goes, if Congress finds out about it, one thing we know on the Hill is that you're going to find out about it.

They can't keep a secret.

It's going to leak.

So they've been doing everything they can, I imagine it's the DOD to prevent Grush from going into a skip with members of Congress to release and reveal the classified details necessary to verify his claims. If you've been keeping this under wraps for 60 plus years or whatever they've been doing.
Would you really tell AOC?

Would you really pull her aside and tell her?

Well, I mean, any members of Congress with the proper clearances and feel like they want to have that information, I mean, you've got Mace. Nothing wrong with her.

I'm not even saying her.

I'm just saying pick a young one.

You're going to give them all that information?

Exactly.

They don't want them to have that information.

There's no question about it.

That's what I would imagine. That's probably why they won't let Rush get into a skimp.
So here's another thing I'd like to mention is that David Grush claims that he gave even a street address to the ICIG, which is Thomas Monheim. That's the Intelligence Community Inspector General.
So I'm asking members of Congress to support all their efforts. You know, Burchett, who's been amazing, regardless of what your politics, the guy's a's phenomenon he's been really pushing for transparency super solid guy you got mace you got must muskowski what's this from from Florida Garcia from California AOC New York Luna and then of course you got the Senate side got Rubio, who totally knows where this stuff is, Rounds, Schumer, and if you look at the NDAA, you can see the language in plain sight.
I mean, it's phenomenal what's going on, and I think that our elected officials that are really pushing for transparency need to hear from us, need to hear from the citizens and know that we support their efforts and that we have their backs and continuing to push for transparency, to push to find out what the hell is going on. I mean, imagine if it's true.
Imagine if we have spaceships and we have biologics bodies. Okay.
That is not just implications for the United States. That's global implications.
I mean, the impacts, the ripple effect that would have around the world for that confirmation to happen. No doubt.
It would be huge. Well, the human race deserves to know.
It shouldn't be unelected officials and Defense Department people that know about this stuff. That's crazy.
I totally agree. Unless, unless, this is what I had a conversation with Ryan Graves yesterday the way I would argue it if I was a military person I would say this is a national security interest and we are trying to back engineer this stuff we're not successful if China steals our data if Russia can back engineer one before if Iran gets one before us we're fucked fucked.
Because these things are insanely sophisticated.

We would obviously weaponize the technology.

That's obvious.

Of course.

Yeah, duh.

Duh.

It's like 101, right?

Yeah, why would we not?

The basics.

I mean, if you could put a nuke on one of those things, I mean, the exhibited technology that people say,

people that have witnessed this stuff say it goes from a standstill to out of sight in the blink of an eye.

I mean, these objects, what was it?

David Fravor said it went from space.

50,000 feet above sea level to sea level.

In one second.

In one second.

Yeah.

That's insane.

It's insane.

We talked about it yesterday.

Oh, you did?

Yeah.

It's an insane amount of speed.

And the way Ryan explained it in terms of like the amount of force you would need is equivalent to how many nuclear bombs did he say something insane like the entire nuclear arsenal has to be to generate that kind of power whatever it is it's if if these stories are true it's doing something that we don't understand so if it's ours i kind of get why they wouldn't want to spill the beans. My thought once was, what if this is not weaponizable with our current technology? Like, what if these things are our drones, but they don't know how to put a weapon on it yet? Like, because whatever you do, it moves at a speed.
I have a problem with that theory. And the problem I have is that the United States government has documented close encounters of a third kind.
That's beings connected. That's their own files, right? That's not me saying it.
So it's not just these objects exhibiting revolutionary technology for at least 80 years, right? No wings, no tail, no visible means of propulsion, the ability to hover, accelerate, out of sight in the blink of an eye, right angle turns at eye speed, no wake, no sonic boom, that kind of stuff. But you also have reports, credible reports of beings connected to some of the craft.
And that's documented all around the world. So that eliminates, right? If it's true.
Well, yeah. The whole thing, like just because something's written down somewhere doesn't mean that someone didn't write it down as a psyop sudden dump someone to write down to discredit other people with a ridiculous story.

One way to discredit a credible story is to attach it to a bunch of ridiculous stories. Right.
So if I was going to hide some sort of technology, one thing I would do is connect it to a bunch of kooky stuff, a bunch of psychic stuff and remote viewing, just a bunch of things that people like very easily dismiss UFO abductions, UFO encounters, encounters with an actual being, right? But put a bunch of stuff in there that like makes people go, what is this real? And just enough, just enough so that you can hide the real stuff in there. Well, I think, and again, I'm not, no i totally hear you yeah and i and again i i've said this earlier in the show and i'll say it again is like the reason why i believe david grush who testified not just i believe david but david doesn't have firsthand experience i just talked about but the reason i know i know but the reason why i believe him is because it aligns with my research in the field.
Remember, I spent over 12 years investigating on and off with my buddy Marco Leal in Virginia, Brazil, that UFO crash case. And only found out last minute, the last time I was there, that the Americans were involved.
So I was like, oh, my God. The rumors are true.
You know, the Americans really are. Do you see, like, I obviously looked into Roswell for years.
I went to Roswell the 50th anniversary. This is how the deal works, bro.
You want the aid? We get the UFOs. We give you the aid.
But if a crash UFO, you fucking call us. Stay out of there.
Don't be carrying that dude to the hospital. Leave it to us.
And then we'll just scoop that up and shut the fuck up. do you think about that that the one of the craziest stories is that there's a building somewhere that's an enormous building that was actually around the UFO because the UFO was too big to move have you heard this story yeah it was reported on news news nation with Ross Colhart it's gotta be real and I well Ross Colhart is a credible he's got a nice.
He's got a great accent. It's got an

Not quite British we believe you

But it's close more credible

There's something about a British accent that just adds credibility to anything. It was some guy from New York

So we got this fucking car right for sorry, we put it over here huge

This spaceship so fucking big

Yeah, build a building around it, but they talked about it now now here's what is this building and where is it supposed to be i i don't know oh you're holding him back no no i really don't know nope oh i have a little bit but i don't have the same connections on that but i but i'll tell you a case that i do think needs to get looked into oh you see you're gonna you're gonna move us around yeah yeah because yeah. Because this is one of the...
Well, this is... No, but this is a craft.
A recovery craft. He's a big government agent, this guy.
He's trying to... So there's a memo in the program that was, through the Dobster process, was released.
Unfortunately, some of the names are redacted. Christopher Mellon obtained it.
It was from a correspondence he had with a high-level government official back in 2020. It just got approved for release, I don't know, maybe a year ago.
It's featured in the doc. And in it, it has the names of not just the gatekeeper, but other people that names who found the gatekeeper to the crash retrieval program.
I'm told that unredacted versions of that have been handed to select members of Congress and people that are investigated in an official capacity for the government.

But in it, they specifically mentioned a case, not crash, a landed case that happened in 1953 at Kingman, Arizona.

So I had made some inquiries with aerospace folks that I've been meeting with quietly.

And I'm like, what's this case that you guys keep talking about with the Kingman, Arizona?

They're like, oh, it was like they just landed and left. I was like, well, how do you know they landed? What do you mean landed and left? And they're like, well, the doors were open and nobody home, and they walked off.
I said, you mean somebody just flew this thing down. It landed on the ground in the desert and came in Arizona in 1953, and they left the doors open and left, and they were like were like yep that's pretty much what happened so so they left the craft there somebody just they flew it down and left a craft on the ground I was told that and I I wouldn't be repeating this if I didn't think there was some serious credibility to it but apparently it was and well it does not align with how Diana Pasolka and Gary Nolan have started describing these things as donations? Well, the individual that I talked to was so funny because this individual was like, not a scratch.
And I go, not a scratch. What? Not a scratch.
Not a scratch on the... No, it was perfect.
Didn't have a scratch. I was like, oh my gosh, this sounds like somebody who's more than just heard about this.

But one of the aspects of it didn't have a scratch on it.

So I think that's a case that I think that people should definitely be looking into.

So the first-hand witness said it didn't have a scratch?

I don't know if it was the way they described it.

This is the problem.

This is the problem I have with all this stuff.

But here's the thing.

If you were Travis Walton.

Yes.

Okay.

Love that guy.

I love that guy too. Fascinating story.
I really enjoy it. We got a bobblehead.
That's a Travis Walton bobblehead. Oh, no way.
Yes way. Oh, my gosh.
I got it from Travis. That's him staring at the sky.
Oh, my gosh. When he was a young man.
I went to the location. That's a remote spot.
So that is, I'm interested in that because that's a firsthand witness. Yes.
Right? That's a guy. Yes.
He's explaining his bizarre experience. He's told the same story's told the same story no question for whatever 50 60 years whatever the hell it's been 1975 whatever it was since he got abducted 50 almost 50 years so this guy was there that was his story that i'm interested in that when i hear a guy told a guy that this is what happened and this is how he described it i'm like super frustrating so frustrating.
So talking to Jay Sands. Yes.
First hand. Again, first hand was like, what the fuck are you saying? Face to face.
Yes. Tell me what it was doing.
What it looked like. Yeah.
He said he thought it was an adolescent too. He didn't think that it was a full grown one.
He thought it was young. Well, he's got an illustration of it in the documentary.
And I tell you, it's, it's one of the crazy. I remember after you imagine? I know.
I was like, if this is true? I was like, this is crazy. Do you imagine being that person? This is something that we didn't reveal in the documentary that was really funny.
He thought that this individual was suffering from frostbite or... What's that when you get really cold? Hypothermia.
Skin had a blue tint to it. So he took his jacket off and he very insistently put the jacket on this individual because he was thinking this person's really really cold it's been out in the desert probably had a plane crash or whatever right and so he's putting his dad and the person was kind of resistant but jason said i insisted i took one layer of my jacket and i put around this individual and that individual left with the jacket on so we jokingly i jokingly say where do you think your jacket is now he's like probably out there at elms atari or god only knows or right here yeah yeah or yeah or this is the thing that gets me right here logistically yes okay if these things are coming from the ocean just logistically you'd have to have a large ship so we were talking about this with ryan yesterday and i was saying like if they had ahip, we'd be able to see that, right? Like 100%.
He said, so it would have to be a submarine. So I'm like, Jesus Christ, what if there really is some sort of a civilization underwater that has existed, coexisted with us forever? Did you hear about the testimony by Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet just recently in Congress? Is this the one where the thing's moving underwater at 500 knots? Yes.
He's reporting. Explain to people what he said.
I don't have all that you can look at. Just what you can remember.
Yeah, what I can remember basically is confirming that we have objects that are exhibiting a technology underwater that defies any conventional explanation. that are just virtually impossible like so much faster than the fastest submarine or anything like that just and they're really big yeah it's moving as if there's no resistance underwater yeah and then they moving like a fighter jet would in the air it's moving like that oh yeah they call it trans medium or something they can yeah but there but confirmation I mean that's and I actually spoke to to Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet on a couple of occasions recently.
And I thanked him for coming forward and testifying. And he said, you know, I felt an obligation to do so because a lot of my men, the pilots, were coming forward and I wanted to back them up.
And so that's why he stepped forward and testified. If, if you're coming here from somewhere else and you wanted to hide in plain sight, you would hide in the ocean, especially if you have the technology to completely negate any of the effects of the water and the pressure.
At least explore this place on Earth. Yeah, we can't get to it.
We don't have the technology to get. They know we don't.
They know it's really hard to get a submarine out to wherever the fuck they would be. What's his name? Went to the bottom of the Mariana Trench.
Cameron. Cameron.
By himself. He's a wild boy.
I would never do that. He's a wild boy.
Isn't that like 35,000 feet down? How far is it? It's something bizarre like that. I mean, that's those poor folks.
Would you go down in a submarine by yourself? Fuck, no. Definitely not a homemade one like the one those people died in.
Yeah. But there's another that case when the people went down in that submarine.
Apparently, I guess it's the Navy, has some sort of very sophisticated underwater audio sensors. And they heard the implosion and they knew about it immediately.
And didn't report on it. Well, I mean, I think the problem with reporting on on is that you have to report on your technology now I don't even know if this has been confirmed but this is what I had heard methods and means or well it's also it's got to be top-secret like it's got to be one of those things where if you're gonna reveal that you heard that you have to have clearance to do it you probably have to run it up the ladder one of the reasons why we know about overhead satellite imagery of UAP is because of Ratcliffe who was former head of ODNI and he came forward and I remember it's funny actually it was classified and Christopher Mellon participated in this latest production with me because of Ratcliffe revealing it on Fox News and Ratcliffe basically yeah, we have overhead collection satellite data of UAP that are pretty fucking far out.
And that, yeah, that happens. So they're talking about this.
But getting back to your point, because I know you said you were frustrated. You're like, oh, yeah, it's just another anecdotal piece of evidence, a piece of testimony, third party, not firsthand.
I'm not saying I'm frustrated. No, no, no.
No, what I'm saying is I totally agree with you. I'm frustrated.
As somebody who's been chasing this story for 30 years, I too want access to the better, more compelling data. That's why I chased after that photograph I just shared with you earlier on for as long as I did because I hear about something and I go after it.
But I want to remind your audience, you can't go after something without knowing that it exists. So you get the leads.
We're learning more about the programs. We're learning how these programs are hidden.
These WUSAPs, they're waived, unacknowledged, special access programs, probably hidden somewhere in the DO. I know, it sounds crazy.
But at least giving some guidance to where are these things and how these things are hidden, where they might be found. We reveal there's a gentleman in the film called Navy X, and people are like, ah, it's just another person testifying anonymously.
Well, yes, true, but he gives us specifics on telling members of Congress where to look to find specifics. J-Wix, what is it? And this is where to find the more compelling data.
I'm going to read this because it's important that people know that. He's saying, look, I've seen it, and this is where it is.
It's called the official UAP data is kept either in SIPR, secret internet protocol router network, or JWICS, Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communication System, that's used by the DOD and only available in a SCIF. And a SCIF is a sensitive compartmented information facility.
So is it frustrating to hear that? And people criticize, oh, it's just another person. But he's saying, I've seen it.
It's phenomenal. He gives descriptions of some of the stuff he saw and he's telling members of Congress, if you have the clearances, this is where it's being kept.
So those are very good specifics. And again, I remind you guys like, okay, just just be patient this is not a hundred yard dash we're running a marathon right now we need to be patient we are we're trying to get back to what i was talking about earlier logistically logistically if you're letting something go from the ocean yes if you're flying it out of the ocean logistically you would have to have some sort of a large craft out there that's going to house these things or it's going to launch from, right? If it is actually coming from the ocean.
Oh, I see. The drones you're talking about right now.
Right. Yes.
So either they're ours, and if there are ours, how do they hide the fact that there's a battleship out there? Is that possible? And if it's from a submarine, how do they develop a submarine that can launch 50 car-sized or SUV-sized drones from? Yeah, that's one of the things that Christopher Mellon said to me this morning. He goes, that's the one element or aspect that really is a head-scratcher.
Because 50 of these things coming in off the ocean, that's just confirmed. Right, right.
No one's denying that. But here's the question.
Yes. Is it possible to classify the location of a U.S.
battleship that's capable of having these things? So big. How could you like...
How big would it have to be to launch 50 drones? God, you're not talking... You're talking...
I don't know, man. But that's a lot of drones, especially the size they're reporting.
They're talking about drones the size of an SUV. Right.
With super long loiter time. Let's imagine you, so when you take a ferry, how many cars can a ferry fit on it? I take a ferry all the time in Vermont.
Like a big one, like a legit one, like a European 50 cars? I put, well, the one that's medium legit, I put 25, 30, maybe 40, 25 to 40. Yeah.
More than you think. So couldn't you do that with drones? And couldn't you have something that's a little larger than the average ferry? So you wouldn't need a battleship.
Why would they do that? Why would they do that over residential areas? do that in residential areas why would they have everybody scratching their heads all these press conferences you're talking about the head of the gang of eight okay uh but if they're if they need to you're gonna do that you're not gonna tell them if they are really looking for a nuke okay let's imagine that this story about uh you know a ukrainian nuke from the time when they they disarmed them there's one that's unaccounted for this is one of the stories that's been on the internet i don't know if it's true yeah that it's unaccounted for and that they think it's headed to the united states if you were trying to find that thing like a dirty bomb yeah or like a just a regular nuke that if you're looking for gamma rays, you could devise a drone that could search for that and you'd fly it over an area and you wouldn't care whether people freaked out because it's more important to find this goddamn thing. So if you have this technology, some skunk works technology.
You can't do it from space? No, I don't think so. I think you have to be there.
Certain proximity within. I think.
To pick up whatever. Did you bring this up with Ryan Graves? Yes.
What did he say? I mean, he doesn't know either. He doesn't know.
He doesn't think so. Everybody that I trust.
He doesn't think that's the issue. People in the FBI, people that I communicate with often, I'm like, what is going on? It almost seems too sexy that the United States has that kind of ability and they're just flying

these things around and that they're doing it

for that specific reason to find a nuke.

It's like that we have this kind of technology

that none of us are aware

of. That we have these drones that

can shut off when you come close to them. The lights

shut off. They disappear.

They avoid tracking the RF

signal. It doesn't show up.

They're cool. They have some sort of cooling mechanism in them, so it's difficult to see with infrared.
I don't understand any of that. He was saying that's above what we can do right now.
But they're not moving in a way necessarily. That's not possible with drone technology that is mainstream.
But there's some aspects of the way they move and what they're doing that doesn't lead them to believe that this is current state-of-the-art technology as far as we know it. Yeah, even I had some people tell me, like, even if it's conventional, it's highly advanced conventional.
Right, but let's look at China. Like, China has highly advanced drones.
Yeah. We were talking about this as well, that the bottleneck in america was the afaa the faa put a lot of restrictions on the manufacturer of drones and how you can do them what you can do china doesn't have any of that so they're full steam ahead with innovation if you look at what drone manufacturers in the united states have been able to do and then imagine untethered if they weren't fucked over by all these regulations that got in the way of innovation who just come obviously you have to have one because if you have some commercial drone that someone can buy that can move 500 miles an hour and fly through the air and stay up there for six hours at a time and film video of everything and anything well and you you can't control it you can't block the the radar screen you can't find it with infrared that's pretty nuts so I would imagine that would not be a thing they would want in the hands of the average American person but why did it just start happening fairly recently when I say this I'm saying if it's Chinese if it's Chinese if they if they're unburdened by our regulations and that not only do they have the help of the government, they have financing behind them.
They have an imperative. They're told what to do.
They're flying it over Langley. They're flying it over.
Wouldn't you do that? Just to fuck with these people? What's the golf course that Trump has? Yeah, his golf course. What's that called? I don't know.
Westminster? Yeah, something like Bedminster. They're flying over that? Yeah.
The president-elect... Langley Air Force Base did experience incursions of unauthorized, unbanned aerial systems in last year, December 2023, says Sabrina Singh, Pentagon spokeswoman.
The number of those UAS incursions did fluctuate, but they didn't appear to exhibit any hostile intent. It's something that we have kept our eye on.
Well, thank God you're keeping your eye on it. Yeah, and we have no idea what they are, but they're fine, nothing to worry about.
Brian told us yesterday this has been happening. This is the third year in a row this has been happening right around Christmas time.
Well, that's one of the reasons why I wanted you guys to hear that account by the guy at Vandenberg Air Force Base. This is not anonymous reporting.
The guy's giving his name, and he's talking about objects that are the size of a football field, hovering over a silo, launch control area. That's also the Phoenix Lights.
They described them are the size of a football field. Yeah.
Hovering over a silo, launch control area. That's also the Phoenix lights.
They describe them as size of a football field or larger. Oh, yeah.
I interviewed a guy. There was a case that happened right here in Texas, Stephenville.
Ricky Sorrell is one of the best witnesses. I love the guy.
He was a hunter. And he's like, James, you could have landed an airplane on this.
I said, you've got to be kidding me. He goes, no, man.
He goes, I stood under this thing. He goes, it was so big, I was standing under it, and he had his rifle.
And he's standing under it, and he's looking up, and he's looking to the left. He's looking to the left, right, back, forward.
Can't see the edge of it in any direction. So he grabs his hunting rifle because he was hunting.
Dear, this is 2008. He grabs his hunting rifle.
Please don't tell me he shot it. any direction so he grabs his hunting rifle as he was he was hunting dear this is 2008 grabs his honey please don't tell me he shot it no well so he holds his hunting right his rifle up and he's looking through the scope and he goes jans i'm a metal worker i work with metal i know what metal looks like and he's looking through the scope and he goes man there's no rivets there's no seams there's no weld marks he's like there are these on the belly of it there were these reverse like uhed cones.
It's like bigger, and then they got smaller as it went up into the belly of the craft. He's looking up at it, and his finger's on the trigger, and he's like, man, I wonder, wasn't that how you go? I wonder what would happen if I just pulled the trigger here, and I bet it would ricochet off or hit the belly or something.
So he's looking at it, and he's just about to pull the trigger to check it out out and he goes, hmm, maybe this isn't such a good idea. I interviewed him in 2008 when this was going down and then about a year later I was doing some follow-up interviews for a film I did, I Know What I Saw and I had this gentleman walk up to me and I was filming in the downtown square in Stephenville or it might have been Dublin and this gentleman looks at me at me and he goes you mr fox yes and he pulls out a badge and he shows me his badge and uh he's like can i talk to you for a minute i'm officer of so-and-so and i was like jesus christ what the hell did i do and i say yeah sure and we walk off to a cafe and he goes he's looking at he had his back he had his back to the wall in the cafe so he could see everybody coming in he was really paranoid and he says you know ricky sorrows i said yeah he goes that guy's telling the truth i said how do you know he goes because the whole police department saw it i can't remember if it was dublin police department or stephenville i think it was dublin steven uh police department he goes yeah man we he said we uh we were sitting over their patrol cars and this object was like a floating department store.
I mean, it was absolutely colossal like a city. Took out my radar gun, pointed at it, and it was doing 22 miles an hour.
And then he said it drifted off, and one of the officers, I don't remember the name of the gentleman, took his dash cam, and he flipped it up, and he filmed it. And apparently one of the biggest mistakes this individual made, this police officer made, was that he didn't make a copy of it because the local Air Force base requested that film footage and got it.
And so I've been telling people to go after that stuff exists. But my point is this object was so big, people claimed the witnesses, the firsthand witnesses, that you could have landed an airplane on it.
Yeah yeah i mean what is what is that those are the cases you see that that's the thing like if you see that do you even tell people you sound like a kook yeah like if i saw it if i was outside in the desert yeah and i was just chilling and something so big that i couldn't see the edges of it yeah flew overhead i don't know what i'd say he when it took off, it was like this. He goes, James.
And Ricky didn't want to give me an on-camera interview for the longest time. He said, I'm not coming forward.
I'm not going to do it. I'm not going public.
I worked on him for eight months. Finally, I got the green light.
I flew back out to Texas, got him on camera, put him in the movie. But he said when it took off, it went from this, a complete standstill, and it went straight up, like at a slight angle, but straight up and gone.
He goes, James, I said, describe the acceleration. He goes, hell, I'll tell you, the best way I can describe it is that had I blinked, I would have missed it.
That's how fast it took off. So it went from here, like that.
He had helicopters hovering over his, I know this sounds crazy, people are going to be like, oh, this big, you know, But he had helicopters hovering over his i know this sounds crazy people are gonna be like oh this big you know but he had helicopters flying over his property for a while right around the time that i was trying to get him to go on camera he came out in his underwear and his shotgun late at night with his helicopter spotlighting him up and he ended up calling the local air force base and said stop flying over my house at night and they said we suggest you stop talking about what you saw. And so he was kind of spooked.
And about eight months later, he finally decided that he was going to go public with the story. But, you know, everything to lose, nothing to gain.
You get this countless reports of these cases, you know, and they're around the world, right? It's not just the United States. I've demonstrated that time and time again.
But there's more of them in the United States than anywhere else, right? Well, I mean, one of my favorite cases, Ruiz and Bobway, that's an amazing case. But there's more sightings in the United States than anywhere else, right? There seems to be an attraction, almost like a moth to a flame with nukes.
Somehow they're interested in our nuclear capabilities. And I remember interviewing Robert Salas, who was a launch control officer, who described this whole event at Malstrom Air Force Base in the 60s, where these UFOs were witnessed on the base, and then all their Minutemen missiles started getting shut down.
And I remember saying to him, like, well, what's your take on that? Like, what kind of, you know, he goes, and I realized why this individual was a launch control officer because he was so measured and so calm and so cool. And he goes, well, James, the message I got was kind of clear.
It's almost like taking matches out of the hands of a baby about the nukes. So, you know, with the phenomenon, you look at what they do, right? And that says some things.
They've done some pretty brazen events, right, over the decades. But you also look at what they don't do.
Because if the phenomenon wanted to end this, like, you know, secrecy once and for all, all they'd have to do is hover over the Macy's Day Parade or the next big Super Bowl and it's game over. They don't do that.
They've done some pretty brazen things, right? I mean, case in point, March 13th, 97, over the state of Arizona, including the governor, Fife Simon, witnessed that massive, there were a number of UFOs witnessed, but that the main one, you know, was this big boomerang shaped craft. And even the governor said it must have been at least a mile across from wingtip to wingtip that floated.
And I actually interviewed people that worked at Luke Air Force Base at the time. And they said that they scrambled jets to intercept this thing.
And I interviewed a number of people that saw that craft. I mean, that stood on their, that light down on their lawns and watched it float over the top of them.
And apparently, according to this individual that I met in the late 90s at Luke Air Force Base, they scrambled a military jet to intercept this thing. He came up on it, could have landed on the damn thing.
It was so big. And it went from moving very, very slowly to accelerating like warp drive.
Boom, just gone. When the jet came back to the base, Luke Air Force Base, they had to carry him out of the plane, I'm told, because he was so shaken by what he saw.
Yeah, I can imagine you wouldn't handle that well. Can you imagine having to keep that secret? No.
Can you imagine, like, could you imagine taking the ultimate? Well, the governor had to lie, right? The governor had to, like, a guy in a... Dressed in an alien suit.
Yeah, an alien costume. Yeah, and a five-seventh-day costume.
Yeah. I hammered him on that one.
Well, then afterwards, once he left office, then he talked about it. Yes.
And he talked about seeing it. Yes.
Yeah, yeah. I wonder why he had to do that, though.
I got... Oh, well, so I interviewed him.
I was the one that got him to break his silence after 10 years. And he told me, and I don't necessarily know that I fully believe it, but he told me, because initially when it happened in March, and now remember the vast majority of people were out under the night sky to get a glimpse of the Hellbob Comet.
So it was witnessed all the way across the state of Arizona and even in Nevada, southern Nevada. And, yeah, there he is.
Fife told me that it was growing hysteria. But initially he had set out and he said, we're going to find out.
I'm contacting Luke Air Force Base. We talked to the Pentagon and all these various services.
And we're going to get to the bottom of it. And then, I don't know how much longer it was.
Was it later that day or was it the next day? He held an unscheduled press conference, and that's when he had his aides dressed up in an alien suit and made a mockery of it all. And I can assure you, pissed the hell off his constituents and the witnesses all across the state of Arizona.
They were furious. And I confronted him on that 10 years after the fact because I was pissed off.
I was investigating that case when it happened in the 90s. And I interviewed a lot of really good witnesses, really good witnesses.
And he said the reason why he did it was because of growing hysteria, that he wanted to quiet, calm down the hysteria. But did he get a phone call to saying, hey, kill this story? I lean in that direction, but even when we're having cocktails together, he's never confessed that that happened.
But it was awfully suspicious the way it all went down. It's a little weird, especially considering he actually saw it.
That could have been a turning point in the UFO phenomenon reporting era, right? Like suddenly you get this massive sighting, which would happen today. We would have been covered by everybody's phones and whatever.
But if the governor had come forward and said, yeah, we need to figure out what that thing is. I'm a former captain in the Air Force.
I'm a pilot. And I saw it.
I don't know what the hell that thing was. Is there any footage of the actual thing, the triangle boomerang-looking thing? There's some footage floating around, and I featured some, and I know what I saw.
You got an object in the night sky with lights that—at the time, in 2009, I did some kind of enhancement. I'm sure the software is a lot better nowadays.
It looks like a big—I can draw it. Like a boomerang.
Yeah, but more angular. It was like this.
Like this. And my drawings are terrible.
Like that? Look up at the screen? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kind of like that, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Yep. And so that image in the far left, but's but that's.
Yeah. And that's it right.
So. Yeah.
And here's something that kind of throws off the trail here, because excuse me, the object came down of the state of Arizona. It went from north to south.
Is that legit on the right there? Yeah. Honestly, I can't say.

I'd have to really do a deep dive into it,

but let me tell you what happened because this is brilliant.

So what happened was you got this massive object from around 5.30 at night in the southern Nevada,

and then it drifts down very slowly from north to south

across the entire state of Arizona,

and right around 7.30, 8, 8.30, the Berry-Goldwater Mountain Range, which is the direction it was heading in, the military decides to drop a bunch of flares. And so people were like, oh, there it is.
And a bunch of people filmed the flares. So in my opinion, it was a diversionary tactic that was brilliantly done, because why the military suddenly decided to drop flares in the shape of somewhat of the shape.
So I think that some of the footage that you've seen out there is military flares. But there's, and there was an effort, I don't know if you want to get into it right now, but there was, there was an effort by the so-called M&B, which the MIB, these men in black or whatever unknown government agency they come from, that took some footage that I was learning about during my investigations in the 90s.
And I know you're looking at me like I'm crazy. No, no.
So the first time I really heard a really credible report of the MIB and I decided not to report on it was when I was in touch with a woman who was councilwoman, Francis Barwood, who was one of the few officials in Phoenix area that was saying, hey, let's investigate what these people are claiming they have seen. She's not saying aliens have landed.
All she's saying is, hey, these people have a right to know what's going on. Let's launch an investigation.
She was lambasted over the media, made fun of, ridiculed. But as a result of her inquiry, public inquiry, and putting it out there, one of these individuals reached out to her.
And I know this because I know her, Francis Barber, and I heard the whole story. And he was a Vietnam vet, and he was on the roof of his house with a tripod and a camera, and he was trying to film the L-Bob comment.
and he had walkie-talkies and he was on the roof of his house with a tripod and a camera and he was trying to get a glimpse he was trying to film the hell bob comet and he had walkie-talkies and he was monitoring the truck drivers driving up interstate 10 from Tucson to Phoenix and so he's monitoring this and he hears these truckers talking about a massive ufo and he's like shit that's heading right towards my house he was like I'll film it so he had a camera all ready to go and the object went right over over his house, according to him, and he filmed the whole thing.

And he goes, yeah, I filmed the whole thing. It's pretty spectacular.
And I know that you're launching an investigation, Frances Barrawe. Would you like to see it? And she said, yeah.
So they made arrangements where he was going to drop it off at her office. Either later that day or first thing the next morning, two representatives, and it was July at this point.
It was very hot. Two men in dark suits showed up at his house

and they said, hey, he was apparently relieved

that's all they wanted.

He said they were quite menacing looking,

didn't really say a lot.

They said, we're from Francis Barwood's office.

We're here to pick up that footage.

So he gives them the footage.

He said, the only question they ask him is,

did they make any copies?

And he said, no.

And so they take the footage, off they go.

He doesn't hear it from Francis Barwood. He's like, what the hell what the hell so a couple days go by i think possibly up to a week he calls her up and he says uh and francis will tell you this she'll she'll validate what i'm telling you he says uh hey what do you think of the footage she goes well what do you mean when i think of the footage i never got it you were going to drop it off at my office and you didn't show up he goes well i didn't have to You had two men from your office show up and pick it up.
She goes, I didn't send anybody around to your office. And I know at the time in the late nineties, I'd heard a couple of stories prior to that.
I thought this is too out there. This is too outlandish.
No one's going to believe this. I have no proof of this other than her testimony.
Screw it. And I didn't report on it.
But hearing those cases over and over and over, it's like, there we go. Once again, the so-called evidence that could prove or disprove one way or the other that something truly extraordinary took place in the skies over Phoenix back in 1997 vanished.
But there is some that slip between the cracks that's out there. You just have to do due diligence.
And I don't have the time to sip through all of it. But those images that we're looking at, they look too clean.
Yeah, I don't know what's AI generated or whatever. Or what could have been in a documentary, like a recreation.
I know what I saw features some of the footage. I covered that case extensively.
So if anyone's interested in the Phoenix Lights case, that, but I can tell you. How many people saw it? Oh, thousands.
Yeah. Thousands.
I talked to another woman, Stacy Rhodes, and her daughter Emily, and they said they were driving on Interstate 10 and she goes look james i'm gonna tell you how big this thing was i said how big she goes first of all there were people stopped on the freeway just like stopped as this thing it was like close encounters floating over the she goes i could have held up a newspaper like this and look to the left look to the right look to that and she said i couldn't block this couldn't block this thing out. That's how big it was.
And it didn't make a sound. It was gunmetal black.
It was witnessed by a lot of people. That's why I say there's some events that have happened over the decades that are pretty brazen.
That's one of them. Hudson Valley is pretty brazen as well.
I just wish I knew if it was true. Well, when you get thousands of people seeing the same thing.
If you see thousands of people saying the same thing, including the governor.

I know.

The governor.

You get so invested in it and you go, what happened?

The governor.

Yeah.

The governor.

The same guy who came out with a fucking guy dressed up like an alien.

Yeah, I know, but I got him to come clean 10 years later.

Yeah, but so.

He's already not credible.

He already bullshits.

He does.

He bullshits.

He definitely bullshits.

He definitely bullshits.

You're right.

You're right.

So when someone bullshits about that, they might bullshit about anything. Well, true.
Yeah. Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate.
No, I hear you. I hear what you're saying.
He hasn't been in the limelight a while. It's a good thing to talk about now.
There's no smoke without fire. There is so much evidence in terms of eyewitness testimony and radar, some photographic, not as much as we'd like, that something truly inexplicable is taking place in our aerospace, right? For sure.
Something that, after careful examination, something that, not because of a lack of data in some instances, but that after careful analysis and research, investigation, that comes out the other end and says, I can't explain this, this is going to have to be one of those unknowns, or falls into that 15% category of cannot provide a terrestrial or conventional explanation for. And those are the cases that I've so desperately have been going after for a long time.
So is all this disclosure and those discussions on television now and all these meetings and hearings, does it, so you think we're on an accelerated path? Do you think this is like, this is all good, right? I'm convinced of it, yes. But do you think that there's a real possibility, like within the next few years, that they just completely drop all the bullshit and come clean about this stuff?

Or would it take some sort of extraordinary event where they had to admit it?

Something much bigger than this drone thing?

Well, in some respects, there has been – I remember I interviewed this guy Nick Pope at the MOD years ago.

And I was like, this is a time when we were pushing for transparency there france was was releasing previously classified documents on ufos les ovnis as they'd say uh the mod followed suit they were releasing previously classified documents slowly putting it out there and at the time was rather exciting i just did a big event at the national press club with leslie kane and and it was like this whole movement it was like oh my god it's happening right but uh it it it kind of petered out a little bit and I remember asking this guy that used to work the UFO desk at the MOD Nick Pope and I said Nick do you anticipate this any type of disclosure this is like 2009 or something 2008 2009 and he goes James no he goes it's going to be disclosure with a small d not a big d it's It's going to trickle out slowly. Condition people, get people prepared, test the waters.
You know, one of the things that we explore in the program, and I'd never done that, is the politics of disclosure. It's a far more complex, let's just suspend judgment for a moment and assume that it's real, okay, that there really is an NHI, or non-human intelligence, aspect to the phenomenon, right? Let's just suggest that's real.
Now, how do you disclose that to the general public? What about the impacts on organized religion? What about the impacts on financial institutions? What about the fact that we'd have to confess that we don't have full control over this? I mean, those are real considerations, and it's not just the United States, right? This involves the planet. This involves all the humanity.
I wanted to ask you about this. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah.
Oh, I do. I totally understand.
It's more complex than you think. Oh, I totally get that.
How does Russia handle these things? How does China handle these things? Well, there was a case in China that happened in 1994, right around the time of Rua, Zimbabwe, also in 1994, called Meng Zhaogua and it happened in the Black

Mountains and it was a landing alleged contact close to kind of the third kind

it's funny because it happened right in the same time of Africa similar message

that was conveyed I went to China I met with an active general in uniform talked

openly about the UFO phenomenon they were pretty open I went to Russia in the late 90s, and that was right before Putin. It was right around the time when Putin was coming in, and that was a period of openness, and I went to Star City, Russia.
I interviewed a cosmonaut, Pavel Popovich, a number of generals, and they were very open about it. In fact, they said to me at the time, if you're here to discuss whether or not the UFO phenomenon is real the doors right over there we're here to create an international coalition an international exchange of information and to talk about the implications of the phenomenon which I thought was amazing this is like 25 years ago right so now I don't know things have changed since Putin's been in office but that was back in the late 90s I mean.
I mean, there have been congressional hearings in Brazil. There's been an effort.
I mean, shit, they had hearings back in 1978 at United Nations that Lee Spiegel put on. So there's been an ongoing effort for this stuff to come out.
I just think it's different this time. To me, it feels like they're not going to – there's too much momentum behind it at this point.
And there's so much legislation that's written. It's too much that's come out.
And it's too important. Look, whether you believe it or you don't believe it, if you can just imagine for a moment, if it is true, and if the U.S.
government does in fact have irrefutable evidence that we're not alone in the universe, that's so significant that we all have a right to that information

and that we should continue to support this unprecedented push for transparency

with our elected officials and get to the fucking bottom of it.

Why not?

Everybody agrees.

Right?

Yeah, I think everybody agrees.

I think the general public, no one's going to disagree with you about that.

Yeah, and the new administration's coming in.

There's Ratcliffe and Rubio.

I'm telling you, Rubio knows a lot.

I know that.

How do you know he knows? Because I've talked to people that have debriefed him and been in the room with him during first you haven't talked to him no I have not no I have not but I talked to people that were in the room when he was being briefed from first handers I'm told that there were I'm going to say right around 12 first hand people that have that have had behind closed doors meetings,

first-hand people that are concerned about their secrecy, concerned about their safety,

concerned about the implications of them coming forward and going public,

that they don't quite have, and this comes from a very good source of information,

that the Witness Protection Program and the legislation that they've created around that is not quite there yet. It's getting closer.
They need to continue to work on that. You don't mean like witness protection program, like put them in hiding.
Whistleblowers. They have whistleblower protection.
I'm so sorry. I meant to say that.
Excuse me. Yeah.
Whistleblower protection is not quite in place. One of the things I really wanted to mention is that there is a gentleman, a young man who's 30 and he feels like feels like he's old his name is Jesse Michaels and he's got this new show called American Alchemy new, it's a couple years old why does it feel like he's old? because you know when you're 30 you feel like you're old really? well I did, when I turned 30 I was like oh I'm 30 because just 10 years earlier I was almost 19 right? or 11 years earlier I was 19 right, you go from a teenager suddenly you're 30, you always think like 30 and I was talking to him not too long ago, Jesse and I said, he's like yeah I feel a little old I was like, dude, I was 19.
You go from a teenager, suddenly you're 30, you always think like 30. And I was talking to him not too long ago, Jesse, and I said, he's like, yeah, I feel a little old.
I was like, dude, you are just getting into your prime, baby. This is rock and roll time.
But I really wanted to, this is a guy who's young. Julian Doria is also doing some amazing work on this and podcasts.
But he was young and is doing a deep dive into the implications and into, he meets with aerospace engineers. The guy's, he a, Jesse, you're a phenomenon.
Keep rocking and rolling. I want to tip my hat to you.
I don't know if you've seen this guy or not. No, I haven't.
He's doing deep dives into what's happening. Maybe I have.
He's documented it with these podcasts and he's doing a fantastic job. And I just got to tip my hat to the guy because he's 10 times smarter than I'll ever be.
And he's young and he's a force to be reckoned with. And he's really doing, he's answering all the questions that you and I are exploring all these issues that you and I are talking about.
Well, I'm glad there's people out there pushing it. And I'm glad there's guys like Grush that are sticking their neck out and guys like you who are making documentaries about it.
The subject is much more open to discussion, like I was saying, amongst serious people. Yes.
Where it didn't used to be before. And now I think with this drone thing, I think there's so many people that are going, okay, even if they're ours or they're China's or they're who, what's going on? Why are there so many of them? What are the answers? And why can't you tell us? Is it because they're searching for a nuke? Jesus Christ, maybe you should warn people and get the fuck out of here.
Is that really what's going on? Like if it's not, what is going on? And if it's not ours, what are they? And how come you can't track them? How come like what kind of – Very bizarre. It doesn't even make sense.
It's very, very bizarre. It doesn't make sense when you think of the capabilities of the United States military.
It doesn't make any sense. They can't figure out what's going on.
I think what Trump said is probably correct that the government knows. They know what's happening and they don't want to tell people.
Why wouldn't he? He could tell us. Why wouldn't he? I don't think he knows yet.
I don't think until he gets into office. He gave a speech about it at Mar-a-Lago.
I saw that. I saw that.
But did he say? Well, let's watch it. We'll watch it.
We'll watch it. Pull a speech up.
Because I'm wondering if he. Yeah.
Well, we're about to find out. Yeah, essentially he was saying that he knows that the government knows what's going on and they're not telling us.
That means they're not telling him. So they're not telling him.
No, I don't think until you get into office, you're not the president, right? So he's the president-elect. I don't know what kind of – Clearances that he has.
Yeah, I don't understand how that works. I'd be very curious to know what he knows.
Right. Especially with this.

Like, who do you even ask?

Like, who is the person that can lay out the information?

Like, which department?

Which agency?

Yeah, right.

Let's hear him talk.

It seems like they're so compartmentalized.

What about the fear?

I'm here at home.

The drones.

Mr. President.

Thank you.

Good to see you.

Good to see you.

Can you comment on the drones that are flying around New Jersey reports?

It seems like the American people have a big disk.

The government knows what is happening.

Look, our military knows where they took off from.

If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage.

They know where it came from and where it went.

And for some reason, they don't want to comment.

And I think they'd be better off saying what it is. Our military knows and our president knows.
Our president knows. And for some reason, they want to keep people in suspense.
I can't imagine it's the enemy because if it was the enemy, they'd blast it out. Even if they were late, they'd blast it.
Something strange is going on. For some reason, they don't want to tell the people, and they should because the people are really,

I mean, they happen to be over Bedminster.

They're very close to Bedminster.

I think maybe I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster.

I've decided to cancel my trip.

Yeah, I think I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster.

Yeah.

Wow.

I bet someone told him, Mr. President, it's pretty important that you don't go to the golf course.
Yeah. God, that's so crazy.
So what does that mean? I got to, if you don't mind, I was contacted. Are you going to switch to objection? No, no, no, no.
No, no. This is all about exactly what we're talking about.
This is something that I really need to put out there because it's very important. Okay.
And it's an unprecedented effort spearheaded by this woman, Andrea, who runs a number of communities on Reddit. And she said that they're banding together for the first time ever.
It's the biggest grassroots campaign for government transparency. This is happening on Friday, the 20th of December at 3 p.m.
Eastern time. And this has the potential to reach millions and millions of people.
It's the most unprecedented event on Reddit in history. And I'll post all of the necessary information on X because this is a very grassroots effort.
And what are they doing?

At James C. Fox on X, formerly known as Twitter.

The Reddit community is banding together for a huge grassroots campaign for government transparency.

So basically all the various platforms on Reddit, like Paranormal, UFO, they don't usually get along too well, but they're all combining their resources and they're getting together

for the first time ever.

And to push for government transparency, there's a couple of government insiders that appear

and we're getting together for the first time ever and to push for government transparency. There's a couple of government insiders that appear in my film that will be appearing on this to answer questions and what steps need to be happening, what's going on today.
And this is happening on the 20th of December, 3 p.m., and I'll be posting more information, the very specific details on at James C Fox I just wanted to get that out there before because well the more this stuff that happens the better the more people demand it the better the more politicians hear from the people and want to I mean especially politicians that are up for re-election and they want to show that they're doing what the people want them to do. Yeah, I'd like to know more, but obviously I'm very happy that we're hearing much more about the subject in a serious way.
Yeah. You know, whatever the hell's going on.
Yeah. Well, I, I, I, I, I really encourage you to watch the program.
I will 100%. I went bent over backwards to put together and explain everything in layman terms.
What's happened from 2017 to today, because it's unprecedented. We're living in an unprecedented moment in history.
There's an unprecedented push for government transparency. And I want to continue supporting our elected officials' bipartisan effort to get to the bottom of this.
And I especially want to throw a shout out to Representative Burchetteett because you're killing it, buddy. Thank you.

Hey, Jamie, why don't you use ChatGPT and ask ChatGPT what's going on with the drones in New Jersey?

That'd be very curious to hear about that.

Yeah.

That's a damn good idea.

And maybe then ask Grock.

But ask ChatGPT what is really happening with the drones in New Jersey.

We'll just see what ChatGPT says. So tell me how that works.
I don't know. We're going to find out.
It's AI, right? And what is really happening with the drones in New Jersey? Let's see. So what does ChatGPT say? ChatGPT is going to search the web.
Oh, this is amazing. Numerous drones have been reported across New Jersey and other East Coast.
It's incredible how fast this is. Look how fast.
Look at this. This is incredible.
They found no evidence suggesting threat to national security or public safety. Despite these assurances, some local officials and residents remain concerned.
For instance, Belleville Mayor Michael Melham speculated the increased drone activity might be related to a search for missing radioactive material from the medical facility in New Jersey. Additionally, the public figures like Bethany Frankel have shared unverified theories about the drone's purposes, further fueling speculation.
The situation is evolving and authorities continue to monitor and investigate new reports. Residents are advised to report any suspicious drone activity to local law enforcement and avoid taking matters into their own hands like like shooting them down.
People are shooting them down. They're shooting them down.
They're eating the dogs. They're eating the cats.
Attempting to shoot down drones as it could pose safety risks and violate laws. Now ask ChatGPT.
Can you ask Rock or no? Oh, let's just keep going with ChatGPT for a little bit because you're asking it again. Ask ChatGPT, if I live in New Jersey, should I get out of town? Are you serious? Yeah, yeah.
If I live in New Jersey, should I get out of town? Should I evacuate? Yeah, should I evacuate? Let's say evacuate because get out of town is like a colloquialism. Should I evacuate? Okay.
This is amazing. At this time, there's no official recommendation for residents in New Jersey.
Uh-huh. Follow official updates.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
As a precautionary measure. Are you sure? Are you sure? Sometimes you always have to ask.

No federal evacuation orders.

Okay, it knows that there's no federal evacuation orders. If you were going to give me advice, would you tell me to leave the East Coast?

Advice is fucked up there we go based on the current information provided by trusted authorities there's no evidence of an imminent threat yeah yeah yeah could you imagine put this in could you imagine a scenario where these drones are actually looking for a nuclear bomb?

And if so, would you advise me as a preemptive measure to evacuate. I type so much worse when people are watching.
I'm so impressed at how well he's typing. Actually, I really am.
While it's possible to imagine scenarios involving drones searching for dangerous materials such as a nuclear bomb. There's no verified information suggesting such an extreme situation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, how about this?

I think...

Tuck this in.

If I put it in grok and fun mode,

we might get a better answer.

But hold on a second.

Try this.

Is there a non-human intelligence behind it?

Listen, I think the drones are looking for a nuclear bomb

and I am going to leave New Jersey, where should I go? It's all Montana. How far away should I go? Oh, that's okay.
If you leave New Jersey as a precautionary measure, here are some suggestions for a place to relocate temporarily. Texas, you're doing good.
Head west. Okay, so now we're getting better.
So now it's saying go further away. Colorado, consider, scroll back up so I can read that where it said Colorado.
Consider Durango, Grand Junction, or areas outside of Denver. These are safe and equipped with modern infrastructure.
They're telling you to move. This is telling you to get away from big cities.
Durango. Tennessee, the Smoky Mountain region, and Gatlinburg, Knoxville provides natural beauty, lower cost of living, and a sense of isolation.

They're telling you how to rebuild civilization.

Okay, if a nuke goes off.

Where to go?

If a nuke goes off on the East Coast.

Type this in, Jamie.

If a nuke goes off on the East Coast, where should I be to be safe? Oh, my gosh. If you're concerned about potential nuclear incident, here's a list of safest options based on geographic, environmental, and strategic factors.
Montana. Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, sparsely populated,

vast distances from major cities and military

targets. Towns like Bozeman,

Jackson Hole, Sandpoint are beautiful

remote and away from the fallout paths.

Jesus Christ.

I'm curious, what would happen if you asked

chat GBT,

is it? GPT.

GPT. If what

percentage of UAP represent a non-human intelligence? Okay, that's a good one. What percentage of UAP represent a non-human intelligence? Really curious.
I was just pulling it from the internet. I know, but let's see what it says.
could represent non-human intelligence remains unknown and speculative.

Current investigation... Really curious.
I was just pulling it from the internet. I know, but let's see what it says.
Could represent non-human intelligence remains unknown and speculative. Current investigations by UAP organizations like the U.S.
government emphasize the following. Most UAPs have conventional explanations.
Oh, this is Project Blue Book bullshit. 5% or 10% of UAP cases remain undeadified even after thorough analysis.
These cases, I was like 15 to 20, but yeah, 5 to 10%. Evidence inconsistent with known human technology, no conclusive evidence for non-human intelligence.
While some UAP cases are puzzling, the government has not officially... Okay.
Commander... Type this in.
Commander David Fravor encountered a tic-tac shaped craft in 2005. What's 2004? 2003.
2003. Oh, 2003.
That defied our understanding of known physics. Period.
What do you think he saw? Wow. 2004, I'm sorry.
The encounter with TikTok-shaped Kraft remains one of the most compelling and well-documented UAP cases in modern history. Key details of the encounter.
Craft describes smooth, white, oblong, resembling a tic-tac. No visible propulsion, wings or exhaust.
Played extraordinary flight characteristics. Accelerated instantly from a hovering position.
Descended from 80,000 feet to near sea level in seconds. Fravor reported the object mimicked his movements during their engagement and then vanished at extreme speed.
It's possible the craft was an ultra-secret military project, either U.S.-based experimental aircraft, aerospace technology, or developed by another nation. However, the extreme flight performance raises doubts, thus advanced technology would suggest a significant leap beyond publicly known capabilities, which is inconsistent with current engineering limits.

Sensor anomaly or perception issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I asked the heads of Arrow if they could explain that one and they said no. If, don't type this in.
It's a really good case. if all accounts of the capabilities of the Tic Tac craft are true, what are the possibilities that it came from another planet? If the accounts of the Tic Tacs craft's capabilities are accurate, instantaneous acceleration, hypersonic speeds without propulsion, no heat signal.
Say it loud so people can hear you. Okay.
So if the accounts of the Tic Tacs craft's capabilities are accurate, instantaneous acceleration, hypersonic speeds without visible propulsion, no heat signatures, and defiance of inertia, then the possibilities of origin being extraterrestrial or from another planet become a viable hypothesis. Here's why.
The physics of the Tic Tac craft. Reported behavior of the craft suggests technology that operates beyond our current understanding of physics and propulsion systems.
No visible propulsion. It implies propulsion system unrelated to conventional jets or rockets.
Instantaneous acceleration defies inertia in Newtonian physics. Achieving this would require manipulating gravity or space-time itself silent operation no sonic booms despite Hypersonic speeds points to a technology that likely emanates eliminates air resistance such as surrounding itself in an Electromagnetic field or bubble this level of technological advancement far surpasses anything developed on earth if true Such capabilities would suggest a highly advanced civilization, perhaps thousands or millions of years ahead of us scientifically.
If true, where do you think it came from? Type that. Type that.
This was 20 years ago. That's the work that it had to say.
I know, but if true, where do you think it came from? How about this? It's still typing. It's still typing.
Jesus Christ. I'm not giving you that answer here.
Final thoughts. Look at that.
We're writing a whole turn paper on this. It's amazing how fast it does it.
God. It's amazing how fast it does it.
Wow. If the Tic Tac UAP is real and the accounts are accurate, then its origin may very well be extraterrestrial or involve unknown physics and technology that we haven't begun to comprehend.
The extraordinary nature of the case suggests an equally extraordinary explanation.

What do you think?

Why are you asking me, bitch?

Your chat GPT. What do you think?

Does extraterrestrial visitation seem plausible,

or is there another explanation that resonates more with you?

So type this.

I believe it seems plausible that they are extraterrestrial in nature. Good luck.
I was going to say that's good. If true, comma, if true, where do you think they came from? Let's see.
or identifying where they might come from involves exploring nearby stellar systems, known exoplanets, and plausible scientific ideas about interstellar travel. Here are the most likely possibilities.
Nearby star systems with habitable zones. Alpha Centauri system, 4.37 light years away, the closest star system to Earth.
Proxima Centauri, potentially habit37 light years away the closest star system to earth Proxima Centauri

Potentially habitable planet exoplanet Orbiting Proxima Centauri within the habitable zone if life developed there might be technologically advanced enough for interstellar exploration Bernard so it's giving me a list of all the potential possibilities possible star systems. This one's only 39 light years away What was the closest one?

Office of Century was that?

Was that four light years or something I don't know scroll back up go back up a little bit 3.9 million 4.3 Alpha Centauri 4.3 light years ago Wow but here's the crazy part pretty close remember the number the twin paradox theory they say that if you get like two twins, right, as kids, say one's 10, they're both 10, and you put one in a spaceship that travels the speed of light for one year, he would come back with an atomic clock on board that spacecraft, a year old or CB-11, and his brother would be an old man. I can't wrap my mind around that.
Right. But they say it's pretty much fact.

But that's speed, right?

I think what we're talking about is different than speed.

I think it's instantaneous.

Instantaneous relocation.

Right.

So I think instead of like...

Manipulate the space-time between the two points?

Right.

So I think the idea is that instead of a rocket

that goes, you know, five million miles an hour and just shoots off of Earth and keeps going until, you know, five million years from now, it runs into this planet. I think it's different than that.
I think what if I had to guess where something can manipulate gravity and space, what it would do is instantaneously appear in these new places. And you've talked to a lot of physicists about this kind of stuff, huh? I have.
And the way they explain it is baffling. And Bob Lazar's version of it is baffling, because Bob Lazar's version of it that he told in 1989 kind of makes sense when you talk to people that are trying to develop some sort of a gravity or warp drive.
And the way Bob Bazar explained it is that this element, when bombarded with radiation, creates this, I'm really butchering it for sure, creates some sort of a gravity field that allows it, the way he described it, like if you took a mattress, a very soft mattress, and put a very heavy bowling ball in the middle of the mattress it pushes the mattress down to that area and that this like folds time right so you go from here to here but when you stretch it down suddenly those two points connect it folds it yeah right and so wherever it is wow it's here so it's not like it's going a million light years so it's a million light years an hour yeah space is malleable. Exactly.
It's here. So it's not like it's going a million light years.
So it's a million light years an hour. Space is malleable.
Exactly. It's just.
Well, it makes sense. If you think about how technology scales and if we do, I mean, Ryan brought up this yesterday as well, that there was research and there was papers written about the idea of having some sort of a gravity drive or having some sort of a gravity propulsion system, something that doesn't rely on conventional rockets pushing gases out the back.
Yeah, we're not doing it jet-A fuel, that's for sure. Exactly.
And he said that this was something that was discussed a long time ago, but then it just stopped. And we brought it up quite a while ago.
There was an episode that we brought up a paper that was written in the 1960s about gravity drives was that by Hal Puthoff I do not know because he's like a propulsion expert in terms of the propulsion behind the physics behind UFOs yeah and he tried to I tried to get him to explain it to me in sort of conventional layman terms and of course my tiny little brain but he I felt like I almost grasped it for a moment but the time the amount of power that it would take to to create that gravitational field around the object and he said that's why you see them doing these maneuvers that look like it defy physics right and then everything inside the craft would just splatter um it that that you're immune from that on the inside according which also would make sense what am i talking about but that would also make sense if you had something like that that you could go in the ocean as well. Right? Yeah.
Because whatever's around you wouldn't matter because you're not affected by it. Right, you're somehow creating a field around you that's immune to whatever.
That would be the only thing that would make sense how it could move so fast underwater. Atmosphere, space, water.
And how it would be transmedium. Yeah.
It can go from space into the into the water it's unaffected by gravity it's unaffected by all the things around it creates its own gravity field and allows it to just pass through things i remember uh kirk mcconnell who senate armed service committee who investigated ufos from 2017 i talked about him earlier but he said that they were picking up a Aegis radar systems were picking these objects up from basically from space.

And they were shooting down from space all the way down. They'd loiter for as long as they wanted to go in the water, come back out again, shoot back up into space.
And they would just do it like, you know, all day long. And there was nothing.
Well, we can't see that, right? And if someone does have I mean. If someone does have, I mean, if there's someone in the military that does have some, like, super advanced satellite reconnaissance imagery of these things, I could see why they would hold that back.
I could see why they would think that people aren't ready for that. I could see it.
Do you think Elon knows? He's real cagey about it. He is cagey about it, and he's got deals with the DOD, and he's satellites and everything.
Yeah, that's probably why. I'd be cagey about it too.
He knows more than what he's saying. This is what he said.
If aliens are real, they're very subtle. That's what he was saying.
I was like, I don't know if they're subtle, man. Phoenix Lights wasn't that subtle.
If that's aliens. I heard from some people around him that because of his contracts with DOD that he kind of keeps quiet about it.

I'm sure.

Everybody talks about, I mean, even Ratcliffe talked about the satellite imagery of UAP.

I mean, if they're picking it up, why wouldn't his systems pick it up?

He hasn't said a peep about the drone thing.

And you haven't asked him about it?

Nope.

If he wants to tell me, he'll tell me.

I'm not going to be that guy.

I'm not going to be annoying.

But publicly, like on X, has he said anything about the drones?

He said something a couple weeks ago, I believe. I think it was a couple weeks ago.
I'll check right now. But there's a big drone storm or a big drone fight coming, and people are taking that as like he knew this was happening.
A big drone fight coming? Well, you know, he's been real public about the idea that building manned fighter jets is, at this point, kind of foolish. You know, and I think he's correct.
Unpiloted only. Yeah.
It takes the fun out of it. Well, it takes the biological mistakes out of it, is what it does.
Right. It takes the human mind out.
The human mind is very fallible. You know, we already know that AI systems, like Mike Baker explained to us, that AI systems with fighter jets beat actual fighter jet pilots 100% of the time.
Really? Yes. When they have these simulated dogfights, when they take AI fighter jets that we have right now, they beat our fighter jet pilots, the best of the best, 100% of the time.
So they don't have any biological limitations in terms of what they can deal with. Well, they can sustain, right.
Chief forces. So you have that, right? So all you have to do is make the equipment and the materials robust enough so they can take insane speeds and not blow apart.
But it certainly would be way easier to do that than it would be to get a human being to be safe in it. So much less badass, though.
So what does he say? Oh, so he clicked on it. Future wars are all about drones and hypersonic jets.
So this is us talking about that. This is us talking about fighter jet pilots by humans will be destroyed very quickly.
So he talked about it. So he put a clip up of us talking about on the podcast.
This was in November, November 28th. And so neither side is air superiority in tanks are easily destroyed by missiles, so that leaves infantry and artillery, basically World War I.
Drones are not yet available in sufficient numbers to matter, much like aircraft in World War I. A defense-in-depth trench war means, and then some modern example.
That was like two years ago. So did you get the impression when you spoke to Elon about UFOs that he knew more than he was telling you you said he's cagey yeah he doesn't he doesn't even entertain the idea of UFOs so if you bring up the Fravor's incident he'll just say no it didn't happen or that's doesn't seem interested I don't know I mean I would imagine what you're saying is true that it's not wise for him to discuss it That's what I would imagine.
Yeah, if he wants to tell me you'll tell me and if he wants me to tell no one I'll tell no one. Yeah, if he wants to tell me and say don't tell anybody I'll I won't tell anybody but I'm not gonna ask him.
I think his position as You know being the guy at SpaceX. Yeah, why would you fuck around with that? He's got too much at stake Yeah stake yeah it's way too much at stake also like if anybody's gonna find out he's gonna find out if there's something going on if something legitimately going on uh the guy who can catch rockets with a crane he that's the guy he's gonna know I thought the first time I saw that I was like AI generated it seems fake I was watching the thing come down and I just thought that's the ones that land before that those are insane and now you can catch them They don't even have to land It's nuts like what he's done is just accelerate What we are capable of doing far beyond what NASA was able to do just a few years ago so I used I used to have a neighbor that worked for Elon Musk and he drove a Tesla way early Way early on when the Tesla's weren't that many out there and I was like, well, you got a Tesla He's like, yeah, I actually work for Elon Musk, blah, blah, blah.
And I saw him a couple of years later and I was like, hey, you're not driving Tesla anymore. He goes, no.
He goes, I, I, I don't work for Elon anymore. I was like, oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
What happened? He goes, he goes, well, he's, he works so hard and his expectations are so high. He goes, I was at the hospital with my wife giving, she was giving birth to our first child.
And Elon's like, I need you in the office.

Oh, Jesus Christ.

He said, he goes, I could, I, you know, the guy's got an incredible work ethic,

work ethic, but it was too much. He goes, I'm at the hospital.
He goes, I don't care where you're dressed to work. It's like pretty brutal.

That's brutal.

Wasn't he sleeping in the, he was sleeping in the. Sure.
Yeah, he was sleeping, working 16 hours a day and sleeping on the floor. Wow.
Yeah. That's commitment.
Well, he demands that of other people too. And, you know, maybe you want that and maybe you don't.
And if you don't, you can't work there. It's just that simple.
Like, if you want that, hop on in. If you're a single guy and you don't have a wife and you don't have children.
Yeah. But if you do, do oh boy that's not a life for that's not a life for me i don't want that job i think the closest thing to a spaceship on wheels is a tesla oh they're amazing pretty remarkable i've had three of them this is my third the acceleration is incredible it's like a gut punch yeah and they're getting better they're getting the autonomous driving is incredible now i remember when somebody said to me they like, you know, step on it.
Show me the acceleration. And I stepped on it, a Model 3 performance.
It seems fake. I got nauseous.
Yeah. I wasn't quite ready.
I turned myself a little sideways or something. I felt nauseous.
I was like, wow, I ride motorcycles. I would do all this.
I was like, yeah. But now I prepare myself for that.
That's really fast. That's super bike fast.
It's crazy fast. And it can actually, the beautiful thing is you can merge on the highway and you don't seem like a douchebag because you're not like, it's not like really loud.
It's just super quiet. It's quiet.
All stealthy. Yeah.
It's all of a sudden it's going 100 miles an hour. Like, what happened? Yeah, I remember I got a ticket years ago on a motorcycle and the guy that bought the bike was, it had a loud exhaust pipe, which I ended up getting rid of.
I didn't like the loud exhaust pipe. It was too loud.
And I got pulled over, and the cop never even saw me. He just heard me, and he wrote me up exactly how fast I was going.
He's like, you're doing 90 to 35. I'm like, I was? He's like, oh, yeah, I can hear you.
I was like, I went up through the gears, and I put it quiet. So, yeah, quiet is nice.
Quiet has its benefits.

Well, it doesn't in a motorcycle, though.

You want to be loud so people don't hate you.

That's true.

I drive like the invisible man when I'm on a motorcycle.

You have to.

Yeah.

I've had people look me right in the eyes and they pulled right out in front of me.

People want to.

T-boned, side swiped.

And also people are like, how many people are medicated?

I don't think they see you as a threat.

I think they see you as like, you're almost like a gnat or something. I've learned, and I tell people that ride motors, I've been riding bikes for 50 years.
As soon as you get on that bike, you become the invisible man, right? Right. Pretend no one can see you.
Pretend that no one can see you. You'll live a lot longer.
You can make eye contact with somebody. It doesn't mean they see you.
Right. I've had people pull out in front of me.
Like I said, I've been T-boned in all kinds of crazy accidents over the years. I wish they weren't so dangerous because I would love to drive one.
Oh, they're amazing. I know.
You just have to be, like I said, you just, you know. Yeah, until you're not.
I had three friends. I was getting my motorcycle license.
How long ago? It was a while ago. Ten years? So it was a couple of us that worked on Fear Factor, a couple of the guys that worked on set.
We all decided to go and take lessons together. And shout out to Peter Hir hershko and uh he wound up getting his motorcycle he kept driving it and uh but one of the guys we worked with he crashed his bike and fucked up his shoulder and then one of the guys who was fighting for the ufc uh frank meer he got hit by a car he got t-boned and ran into his femur snapped his femur and he almost lost his leg his leg was and it fucked up his career for years So there was that and then I saw a guy on the highway that was covered in a blanket Oh, yeah, he was alive You can see but his his leg was so fucked up that they covered in a blanket so that passerby's wouldn't rubberneck it There's three of those and then another of mine saw someone get hit, saw someone get rear-ended, someone not paying attention in their car, rear-ended a bike and had the guy flying through the air at a red light.
So that was enough for me. Yeah, I know.
I became a dad, and I had two motorcycles right before I became a dad, and I sold them. And then after 10 years, I was like, maybe I can get just like a dirt bike because I really enjoy riding.

There's nothing like it being on a motorcycle.

Imagine if you get a dirt bike and then a mountain lion takes you out.

God damn it.

I have a dirt bike with a motor.

Yeah, but even with a motor.

I don't know if a mountain lion would be scared of a motor.

Yeah, I'd be able to outrun it.

I think most of the time they get bicyclers.

Yeah, it's crazy. Most of the time they kill bicyclers.

It's nuts.

Yeah.

So let me ask your honest opinion. I know we're wrapping up here.
Okay. If you had to say whether you believed or you didn't believe in your look, you can't make any definitive statements.
I get that. But you're a very influential individual who's done more for the push for disclosure.
I hate use the word disclosure. It's got a bit of a buzz, a bit of a connection to it.
A push for government transparency on this topic, right? If you had to say something truly inexplicable that most likely would lead to NHI or non-human intelligence or not conventional, what would you pick ultimately that you think there is possibly a non-human intelligence behind this or that there is not? I wish I could be definitive like that. I know you can't be definitive.
I don't. I try to stay as open-minded on this as possible, which means I fluctuate back and forth from fully believing to fully believing it's a military experiment and that it's a bunch of our stuff.
But then there's stories like the things like the Tic Tac and where you go, okay, 2004? How? How could they do that in 2004? Is there a propulsion system available in 2004 that's that far advanced? And if so, how come there's so little evidence of it in a practical use? How come that technology, you would think that technology would take so much money to develop that you would do something with it in 20 years you wouldn't just have it and just be flying it around like a drone every now and again yeah it would seem like there would be some sort of a practical application for something like that yeah and it seemed like like the Manhattan Project and like the stealth bomber eventually you find out that it's a real thing right so 20 years is a long time to not find out that something's real well how about if we take it up to a lot longer than that what about the 1952 two consecutive weekends in july over the white house in the capital and uh that was we had a press conference about that sure i mean A guy in general that basically admit that they're real. Kenneth Arnold, you know, those stories.
That was phenomenal, yeah. And then you got to go to the Bhagavad Gita, you know, like there's stories of things.
The historical stuff is incredible, isn't it? Like think of the guy that showed up with the blue skin. Is that an angel? Is that a devil? Like if you were living 4,000 years ago, you're one of the people that wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls.
He'd be a god. What is that? What is that visitation that you've experienced? With a craft, it would be connected with a god, right? Right.
And also the story, when you tell the story. Like, what is this? And then someone illustrates it.
How does it even relay in words, especially you're using the words of 4,000 years ago? What are you describing? And if they really have always been here and they've always been visiting us, that's probably how you would describe it. You would describe it like Ezekiel did in the Bible.
Yeah. Well, you know, I was in Africa investigating the alleged landing and closing kind of the third kind at Rue Zimbabwe Aerial School in 1994.
I wasn't there in 94. I was there much later.
And the teacher, Judy Bates, who's now the head principal, and she was sharing with me these drawings that children did of the alleged creatures. And they were amazing, these drawings, big eyes and big heads, almond-shaped eyes, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm looking at these drawings, one after the other, from all these schoolchildren. It was phenomenal.
And she gave, no, I took photographs of them. And then a month later, I went to Australia and I was investigating an alleged landing that happened at Westall Primary School in 1966.
And that was, that was incredible. I was there investigating and I was showing some of the drawings of the aliens that I, the alleged aliens that I just had investigated in Africa.
And some of the people were like, oh, wow, these drawings are amazing. They look like the Wangina cave art.
I was like, the what? The Wangina cave art, the aboriginals drew these things, and so they pulled it up, Wangina. And the parallel, they're thousands of years old, right? These cave paintings in Australia.
The parallels, the consistencies, the comparison of the two was like, what? Let's take a look at those real quick. Yeah Look up one one seeing that before we leave cave painting UFO or alien once one most likely something there.
I just don't know and if it's a thing So let's say if it's a real thing Is it from another planet or is it more complicated than that? It's more's more complicated than that. Yeah, well that's Jacques Vallée's.

See that?

Yes, yeah.

Very bizarre.

Right?

I mean look at that one right there with the dark eyes.

Super, super bizarre.

Look at the three of them.

Isn't that the one in the center, Jamie?

Yeah, that one.

Look how weird that is, man.

That's so fucking weird.

Look at the one with the dark black eyes right up there.

Look how pale they are too.

It's like...

Yeah.

It's very weird. And then there's that one with the big dark eyes right down eyes right down Just go straight down up down.
Yeah, right up to the right right there. Look at that very weird very weird It's also very weird how this is 4,000 years old and then close encounters of the third kind the 1970s 4,000 years old and I'm telling you I could show you the drawings.
One of the witnesses... Very weird.
Yeah, it's just phenomenal. Listen, man, thank you for everything.
Thanks for what you do. Thank you so much for having me on.
My pleasure. I mean, you're fucking dogged determination to get this stuff out there.
It's very important. You promise you'll watch the program?

I will 100% watch it.

Comment on it.

I will.

I will.

Thank you, sir.

Awesome, brother.

Appreciate you, James.

Thank you very much.

I appreciate you so much, Joe.

Thank you.

It's on Amazon, the program.

And then Moment of Contact is probably available everywhere, right?

Yeah, and the phenomenon.

Yeah.

I know what I saw out of the blue.

Okay.

50 years of denial.

Oh, my God. It goes back.

Yeah.

You've been deep in this rabbit hole for a long time, sir.

Thanks, James.

I appreciate you very much.

All right.

Bye, everybody.