#2230 - Evan Hafer

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
What's up? Come on, brother. Good to see you again.
Good to see you. So this conversation was, well, anytime you want to come on, I'm always happy to talk to you.
But this conversation was birthed out of that crazy conversation we had in Elk Hunting Camp one you well, yeah, we had it we had a quite a few of them where you just You will open up my eyes to somebody first of all I never understood the extent of the man fuckery in Afghanistan oh When we were talking remember we were hanging out for the trucks and you were telling me about mumbles yeah

With friends that for the rest of my life

Now things are different like now. I look at that one conversation that one hour conversation we had like okay

the world's different now I you know I always

Assume people have heard these stories from Afghanistan. Cheers.
Yeah gotta drink that oh yeah sorry you can't do this with that yeah Buffalo Trace mmm so yeah it the amount of man-on-man buggery in Afghanistan is significant and did they warn you about it before you went over there no. I think there was so many different things about both Iraq and Afghanistan that the learning curve for all of us was so high.
Culturally, you don't think about a lot of those things. You just don't.
You just, you know, you grow up in America. Right.
You assume everybody, every man is basically like an American male because that's at 26 or you know 27 years old you know that there are cultural differences for sure but I'm telling you I was in Kuwait for like the first time early on and uh the Kuwaitis like to hold hands like the dudes like to hold hands. And that's not comfortable for guys.
Isn't that weird, though? Because we do shake hands. Yeah.
You know what I mean? But you don't walk around holding another man's hand. It's just not comfortable in any scenario.
But imagine trying to explain that to someone who didn't understand what makes it gay. At what point in time does holding onto a hand, does does it get you know like there's like a meter like you can kind of like hold on to a hot potato for a couple seconds and then it'll burn your hand after a certain point you're walking around holding another man's hand and you've never really done it probably since you were a kid maybe holding your dad's hand when you're like three or four years old and in special forces they tell you you know you have to work with the cultural differences and they're just talking in general right like these are they're not specific because they don't know where you're going and you're going to have to work by with and through the host indigenous force so you have to accept some of the things that the cultural differences and just go with the flow right so as a new green beret you know as you know SF guys you're just walking around holding another man's hand you're so freaked out about it you're like oh man oh man what the what the fuck does this mean like you know you're questioning you're questioning all your reality.
Like, oh, my God. You know, and then after a few years, you know, time and repetition and war or whatever, somebody goes to hold your hand.
You're like, get the fuck away from me. I'm not doing that, bro.
Come on. No, no, I'm not doing that.
So you gave up after a while. Oh, yeah.
There's a lot of things you give up, right? You're taught in SF, drink the tea, eat the food, you know.

Yeah.

Do everything that they do.

Yeah, just completely assimilate.

And honestly, like, a lot of that is really good because it does teach you to be a lot more open as far as listening to what they're going through from their tribal plights.

Like, what are they going through from a combat experience?

What do they need? And you want to build rapport.

That's what they're going through from their tribal plights like what are they going through from a combat experience what do they need and you want and you want to build rapport that's what you want to do and but rep after rep in a war zone you kind of get fatigued with that and then you're like yeah let's just get to the dirt here man like who do we want to kill like let's let's get to that and got it you don You don't like that tribe. We don't like that tribe.
We don't like this. You don't like that.
Cool. Okay, so I'm not going to eat with you because every time I eat with you, I can't shit for, like, a normal shit for, like, a year.
So we're just going to not do any of that and bypass it. You were telling me you literally didn't shit anything but diarrhea for, you said, more than a year? Yeah, it was years, man.
I was living and working with the Afghans. And I went from Iraq, and I did the invasion with special forces from the south.
And I did multiple rotations in Iraq, both with SF and then with the agency when I went over there. And then when we did the, when we shut down Iraq in 2009, I turned around and basically went to Afghanistan in 2009.
So I went from Iraq to Afghanistan and then went from Afghanistan, kind of finished up my, my CIA combat, I guess, experience, and then went back to the States to do a training thing. But by the time I got to Afghanistan, I had lots of time in Iraq.
I had like four years on the ground. And Afghanistan was way different, but I was living and working with the Afghanis.
I was eating with them. And your job is to not only train assistant advise build rapport but you're trying to figure it out so you need to be on the ground with them living eating breathing sleeping like the whole thing and they're what we call the chow hall facilities aren't the cleanliest you're trying like you're working with them you know you institute different things like soap and water is like a good thing um and

it doesn't really matter you're still going to get sick based on you know the water where is it

coming from where what type of well source like there's there's lots of different variables

obviously but dude i i didn't have a solid shit for two years and i was just kind of got

Thank you. Bell sores.
Like there's lots of different variables, obviously. But dude, I didn't have a solid shit for two years.

And I just kind of got normalized to the point where, you know, you're, it's such a gross thing to think about.

Man, you could not trust a fart ever.

I got this great, I got this great story.

So I came in off the gun trucks and I'm tired. I'm I went into the embassy, and I had a meeting with somebody in Kabul.
And I had this titanium mug that was the size of a toilet bowl. And I'm filling it up with coffee.
And I haven't slept for, I don't know, let's say 20 hours at a time. I'm fucking dirty.
And I'm filling up this coffee toilet bowl, basically, because I'm getting ready to go into a briefing. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog.
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Rated M for Mature. And I let let out a fart and it wasn't a fart and the dude behind me was like i didn't even turn around dude i i knew there was somebody waiting for me and i shit my pants and i didn't even turn around didn't even blink an eye I didn't even lift up the handle because it was just normalized.
And he goes, did you shit my pants and I didn't even turn around. Didn't even blink an eye.
Didn't even like lift up the handle because it was just normalized.

And he goes, did you shit your pants?

And I was like, yeah.

And I just turned around and walked off. It was like, it was the deputy ambassador or somebody.

It was like the ambassador, right?

And I was just like, whatever, dude.

I got shit to do.

I'm out of here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's to the point of which I had a permanent stain in like my combat, my fatigues, right? It's just so bad. But I was like, you know what, man? You got shit to do.
People adapt. You don't sweat little things like that.
And honestly, you're just trying to get through any and all things. And it's not like we're in trench warfare or anything like that.'s just like dude i had shit to do i had people to train we were going out and i couldn't let that like you can't pull over if you're you can at times but there are just times where you just you just can't so you just got to keep moving and it sucks it's like the less glamorous side i don't know if there's a lot of books out there telling all the cool stories about that.
So when did you find out about the buggery? Was it something that you needed a lot of? Yeah. So it started in Kuwait.
And I had an Arabic linguist. And he was a younger kid.
He was blonde hair, blue, blue eyes, a Mormon kid. And he literally joined the army at 18.
You know, two years later after going to the Defensive Language Institute in Monterey, California, you come out and you're speaking Arabic, basically. And young kid, blonde hair, blue eyes, good Mormon kid comes out and he's with us.

And the Kuwaitis kept talking about how they want to take him camping.

We're like, why do you want to take that dude camping?

What's so special about that guy?

You know?

And you're like, after a while you realize like, that's not what they wanted to do.

Right.

They were like talking about it like either a joking way or a serious way. But that's the first exposure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then- Did it take you a while to figure that out? Yeah.
Yeah, because you're so naive. Like, dude, I'm, like, 26 years old.
Like, I don't fucking know. I don't think this is a thing.
Right. I grew up in Idaho.
Like, I know, yeah, it exists,ad exists but i'm so you know blithely like moving

through the world like thinking everybody's uh an american male right right now this is weird and then you know you go to iraq where i went you know i went to iraq and multiple multiple rotations over there and you start to assimilate with you the Iraqis you're either working with or you're training with and then it kind of starts to to to fall apart where it's like oh this is somewhat normal uh for them now they don't talk about it and I'm not saying it's like everyone by the way I'm saying like it's it's at least relevant enough culturally where it's somewhat normalized and not talked about.

Is it similar in Kuwait as Afghanistan or do they vary? Iraq is different. Yeah, they're all a little bit different.

The Afghanis, we had to have, depending on where we were in their barracks living situation like you had to put really hard restrictions like you know no butt fucking guys for the majority of this because this is a health issue we weren't like it's not like we were we were putting bibles on their beds or something we're just saying hey, this is really unhealthy You guys are gonna spread a bunch of different diseases to one another and like we've got a mission to to accomplish here And every SF guy every guy that's like been Afghanistan knows what man love Thursday is and it's kind of a it's kind of a thing that they do Is it just Thursday or is it? It's that's just a thing just to say yeah, but it's just they fuck each just they fuck each other. Yeah.
And so there's the kid with the blue eyes. And after a while you're like, hey, they don't really want to camp with him.
They're trying to fuck this guy. And then you start thinking like, hey, how much of this is going on? It's exactly right.
Yeah. And then as you're exposed to not more of it because you don't really see it, you hear about it.

So as you build rapport, build confidence in your friendships and people start to talk about.

But it is fairly pervasive.

And it's one of those things that you just kind of accept that that's happening from a good portion of the guys. 50%, 60%? Well, what we talked about, kind of rewinding, the more disturbing factor is it's socially indoctrinated in the children, like the sexual exploitation of children.
So it starts early and then it moves into the adulthood. Batchabazi is a real thing.
And, you know, it's dressing boys to look like girls. And they have some Afghanis.
When I say some, I don't know how pervasive it is but it's very it's it's a big percentage and the adult male stuff that's like one sub segment of their culture but it's the sexual exploitation of children that when you find that out that's's when things really turn for you psychologically. You're like, this, this place is really fucked.
And it's, and it's very pervasive. It's, it's very, it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, if you go back and you read the Kite Runner, uh, when I read the Kite Runner, when I was in Afghanistan, I realized that, you know, it's not only the story about this kid, but it's also the story of Afghanistan.
It's very, very, those stories run parallel because children are sexually exploited regularly. and it's mainly the boys from what I understand to the point of which I was driving out on this op,

I guess, from Kabul to jalalabad and when i first got to afghanistan i used to see these truck drivers and i thought you know my dad was a truck driver it's really cool these truck drivers take their sons out with um on the road that's such a really cool cultural thing and my interpreter turned to me me. He's like, those aren't their kids, dude.
That's how fucking horrible it is. It's so horrible that they're on display.
Yes. They're on parade, even, you were saying.
The guys would parade around their harem. Kandahar and different areas, they'll have parades.
And they're on display as to, to this is my harem and they're proud of it and that was one of the most disturbing things that we would talk about specifically between like the departments between department of state cia and the militaries like when you're out with the guys from a tactical and combat role you see them you interact with the way they are from a tactical level every day and you'd bring this up to management and they would say oh that doesn't what do you mean that doesn't happen that doesn't happen or they pretend it doesn't happen but if you were on the ground in afghanistan during the times I was there, honestly, from 2001, we'll say, to the time that we pulled out, everybody uniformly would agree with what I'm saying.

If you spent some time in Afghanistan, you knew that was happening.

Jesus Christ.

And did you see these parades?

No, no.

But National Geographic, I believe, did an article on it several years ago yeah yeah Bacha Bozzi I could be getting the pronunciation a little bit off but it turns for you emotionally and psychologically because you're like okay now now I got some hate right right yeah made my made me makes your job a little bit easier right yeah yeah makes your job a little bit easier it also makes it harder for you not to want to change the entire government system where you you want to completely you know rewrite the entire dna of the cultural infrastructure right uh because it's sad and it's it's evil and it's all of these like really horrible things so as much as you want to help the afghans and their plight, yeah, there you go.

Inside the lives of girls dressed as boys in Afghanistan, the cultural practice of bachaposh.

Bachaposh.

I think that's the flip.

That's the reverse.

Encourages parents, dress their daughters as sons for a better future, but often it only makes life harder.

That's a different.

So it's boys dressed as girls.

Oh, so that's the opposite? That's the opposite opposite the opposite girls dresses boys So this is a different thing. Yeah, why do they do that? What's that about girls dressed as boys? Well, I think because Well one there's there's a very low education rate when I come back to Get the kids educated if they and boys Women are really seen as, in Afghanistan, I'm generalizing, right?

I'm taking really big swaths of the Afghan culture. So I know this isn't every Afghan.
I've got lots of different Afghan friends, and I've hired a lot of Afghans. This isn't everybody.
This is the dancing boys of Afghanistan. Go back up again.
Show what's going on. These guys are throwing money at this dancing boy back that up Jamie I just clicked somewhere random oh what the fuck man yes those are like little boys and they were dancing like strippers and these guys are throwing dollars at them.
Yes. Yep.
Oh my God, this is so crazy. And they're younger, so they go much younger.
This is the thing that people didn't want to talk about in Afghanistan that we talked about regularly, which was these are very, what we feel are distinctly wrong. These are very wrong things from a American support, tactical and strategic intervention, like we should not encourage this whatsoever.
And it made it very difficult at times for us to trust with the State Department or somebody else was saying.

But I mean, this goes back to Iraq and on a side. very difficult at times for us to trust with the State Department or somebody else was saying.

But, I mean, this goes back to, you know, Iraq and honestly trust in policymakers and the State Department and their entire, you know, position, either politically, philosophically. It's just fundamentally flawed.
so when you're hearing about this and the of the things about child molesting is that if these kids are growing up in this culture where they're going to be an adult and they're going to do that to kids as well, which has probably happened to all these guys, right? Like this is – you're not going to fix that with all these people alive.

Like the culture gets to a point where it's so fucked that it's like how do you – how can you ever fix that? How many generations would it take before the scars of all those people being abused wears off and normalizes and people can be normal again? People can like a well we would consider a western civil as a civilization like London or right or New York just how that the what we'd feel is the Morally appropriate cultural boundaries That's that's like how many generations would it take and there's lots of different things that you can talk about, because the history of Afghanistan is, we'll say, post 80s and Soviet intervention. And then, you know, with the Taliban pushback or the Mujahideen and like they've completely destroyed the education, the progress and evolution of Afghanistan.
I mean, they had decades of war. Then you had basically a failed state with Taliban and extremist control.
I mean, as the Taliban moved in, fundamentally, it's an evil organization. I went, there's a soccer field in Kabul where the Taliban used to stone women to death because they weren't wearing their hijab.
Or the rule of a woman would be raped and she would be accused of infidelity on her husband. And they would stone her or they would beat her with a stick and i they turned the soccer field into a place where they could have public displays for execution it it was completely insane when you when you think about it from where we're coming from and then where we're going and we're yeah we're trying to uh nation build which i have like fundamental disagreement with that as well but you you eliminated the educated portion of your population you swung to a very extremist fear-based religion and then and then it was all based on the Quran as far as their education system.
So they completely separated the women away from being able to evolve. They treated them as beasts of burden.
You had to be an Islamic extremist to be acceptable. It was a completely hegemonic theoretical state or hegemony as far as like it's the theocracy ran everything.
And it was a very extremist version of Islam. And as we came in and I wasn't there in 2001, I came there much later.
I came there in 2009 was my first real rotation there it it had been seven years but really it was almost like going back in time almost a thousand it felt like you're going back in time like a thousand years that's one of the things we were talking about in camp that when you hear about you know Socrates and all these ancient cultures the Spartans, all these people that had boys. Yes.
And you see what's going on in Afghanistan. You realize how old a culture Afghanistan is.
It's like one of the oldest civilizations in terms of the way they behave. It's almost like they never caught up with the Western world.
I think it was Michael Shermer might have wrote a book a paper about this he wrote an article about how Islam's the only religion that didn't go through the enlightenment hmm and that it's essentially maintains the same values and you know the same cultural values as when it was created so you know what how old is Islam 1600 I think I think it's like 500 years past Christianity so it's called 1500 years 1500 years old whatever it is that that that's how people behave back then that's what it is and when you about Alexander the Great, Alexander the Great, who was gay, who conquered much of Afghanistan and giant swaths of the world, he probably, like, his army and his behavior and what he probably stained that area was like a type of behavior. I think you're 100% right.
I think that you had portions of the world that were culturally cut off from being able to evolve at the same rate as some of the other places within the Middle East. And those tribes essentially haven't had the opportunity to evolve because they've been very isolated.
I mean, you look at Afghanistan's extremely isolated area of the world. And if you go back to the 70s, it was relatively progressive, somewhat secular.
And then the Soviet intervention, the collapse, the failed state led to the rise of the Taliban because they had eviscerated all of the intellectual and the economic class. And in order to succeed or live there, you had to completely capitulate to the theocracy and the fascist state.
So you had to go back in time to live. You had to grow a beard.
And when I say this, is it everybody is 100%? No. I'm saying like this is the way people live.
They lived under tyrannical rules that provided zero opportunity for, you know, if you had girls, sorry, they're a beast of burden. They treat goats and donkeys better than their girls, their children.

The homelessness of children in a war zone is so heartbreaking. It strips away at the goodness in your soul watching desperation.
and when you see homeless children every day in these cities that are dirty, starving, and there's really not a lot you can do because you have a war to fight. And you not only think about it from the homelessness position, you think about the exploitation position.
these kids are so fucked they're homeless they don't have parents because maybe their fathers were either you know killed in the war their mothers can't they they can't afford to keep them and they continue to have more kids and especially if they've been raped then there's a cycle of not only exploitation and

violence but then it's also uh it it keeps them down economically so you have uh massive amounts of children that were homeless and exploited and they're starving and it's you know you from my perspective when you live in that environment and you can't think about it like you have to shut that stuff out because if you think about it it's like opening the door of the submarine all the water's coming all the water's coming in it's going to fucking

sink you so you have to you have to build a for a lack of a better term man you have to build a callus on your soul because you can't function and uh meet and exceed your mission success criteria if you get going to if if if you get steamrolled by depression on what you're seeing every day oh my god time and repetition which is one of the big problems i think with the g walk community at least what we've had in the last 20 years i mean there's lots of different compounding factors that i think contribute to the acceleration of veteran suicide, which I want to like launch into some like rant about the issues that we're, I think we're, we're all faced, but it's definitely something that I'm extremely passionate about. Yeah.
I'm really hoping we've talked about this a bunch of times in this podcast, but I'm really hoping that something's going to change with RFK in about psychedelics and veterans I really really am hoping that they open their eyes to this stuff well like I was talking to Marcus Capone and he runs vets which he's the guy his organization is the organization that takes the guys to Mexico to do Ibogaine and Marcus Mark is a retired SEAL. I was talking to him yesterday, actually.
And we, I'll go off on this, which is, you know, we as a subculture from the Global War on Terror community, the veterans, we're under an epidemic of suicide and depression. And the VA has not been a help to us, especially the warfighters, like the guys that we have rogered up time and time and time again.
They've gone overseas. We've done the bidding for the country.
We've watched our friends get killed and fucking torn in half in very ultra-violent ways. We've been exposed to overpressure and chemicals and all these other things.
And then we come back, and within the VA system, their answer is, here's your pills, here's your retirement, shut the fuck up. And it's not working.
Marcus and I were talking about this yesterday. He was on antidepressants for seven years.
years like antidepressants they weren't working and he this episode is brought to you by intuit turbo tax one thing i've learned from doing this podcast is the value of having real experts around whether it's someone breaking down complex science health or even philosophy having the right people makes all the difference. That's exactly what TurboTax does for your taxes.
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And right now, you can get 10% off at tecovas.com slash rogan when you sign up for email and text. That's 10% off at E C O V A S Dot-com slash Rogan just by chance his wife I believe Said this might work we needed to go to we need to go to Mexico and do I gain this might work So here's a guy that went did one time.
He's never been on antidepressants since. Did he have to get off him before he went there and did it? I don't know exactly what the protocol is as far as like you have to get off and then you have to get back down there.
I know that most of my friend group now, they've done it and they have an extremely high success rate. You know has done 1,000 former warfighters, and they have an extremely high success rate where they're eliminating pharmaceuticals.
So they'll go down, they'll do it one time. Maybe they've done subsequent sessions, and they have this really high success rate anything yes this is part of the issue yeah is we're under an epidemic of veteran suicide like more so than we ever have and the worst thing about this too is it's also affecting our family and our kids like our kids are four times higher to commit suicide than our peer set so it's not just it's not just the g-watt veteran community Now it's our families and our children.
You have something that has such a proven track record to help heal vets. And we can't do it without breaking the law.
We have to leave the country. It's insane.
So you can send me to Iraq under false pretenses. And, you know, you can have Wolfowitz and Cheney and Rumsfeld and all these, this like orchestra of fucking idiots can send us all to Iraq for weapons of mass destruction.
we can go fight the wars come back and now we have to break the law to go fix what's wrong with

our our heads or you know our emotions or are not only our psychology but dude we're broken like we've been beat up and kind of shoved in a closet and then we're sedated and told to shut shut the fuck up and meanwhile you know wolfowitz and bremer and all these other guys,

they get to walk around and provide public speeches

about how fucking great they are

because they're strategically important,

whereas my peer set, we're under an epidemic of suicide,

our kids are committing suicide,

the VA's no help to us, and we have to go break the law.

It's like you get to go flip a fucking coin and paint some paintings and you think that everything's okay and that one doesn't make any sense out of all the ones that's one that mushrooms you can do recreationally no one's doing recreational ibogaine i've never done it before have you done it no i've never done it but everybody that i've talked to that they said it is is one of the most ruthlessly introspective journeys in your life. It's not fun at all.
Dakota Meyer told me, he's like, I fucking hated it. I couldn't believe someone made me do it.
After it was over, I was like, what the fuck am I doing? It's not a fun time. It's not a recreational drug.
It's not a drug of addiction. It's not a's the l let's find out what the ld50 rate is for ibogaine it's probably bananas it's probably just like psilocybin probably can't really overdose on it no i don't know that i don't know ibogaine might kill you it sounds really crazy potent most of my my close friends of don either ayahuasca or ibogaine neither of which which they would say is a good time.
All of which have said, all of which 100%. And they've come back and been not only fundamentally changed, but better.
And these are, you know, my business partner, Jared Taylor, he's gone and done ibogaine. And then multiple other people that probably don't want me to talk about them on the podcast,

guys that have been on 15, 20 different pharmaceuticals can literally scrape them off their dresser into a garbage can the day they get back.

Crazy. And the fact that we aren't trying to evolve this section of the medicine, I know that Stanford did a study.
I'm not exactly familiar with all the data associated with it. But the fact that we aren't leading the charge as a country to come up with dynamic, out-of-the-box solutions for the guys that have gone overseas and, you know, done the hard and courageous tasks for this country, and then they come back and they can't get help and we're not pushing the envelope.
That's a crime. I mean, I've got lots of issues with, you know, Iraq at this point, right? I mean, it's fundamentally, and I've told this to people, like Iraq is with with me every day right afghanistan was was a part of

my life but iraq fundamentally changed me for the rest of my life and i think about it every day it's not going away it'll never go away and what about iraq that was much different than afghanistan that changed you?

Well, it's the first war experience I had.

And, you know know for me i was like hook line and sinker regime change you know move we've we've got to find weapons mass destruction we've got to eliminate the threat we got to fight them there so we don't have to fight them here everybody thought it was real hell yeah yeah i mean there was nobody more motivated to go to war than than me you know yeah i mean i'm sure there was but you know what i'm saying you were in that yeah you were gung-ho oh 100 it's not only hey we're gonna go to war we're gonna do something good for america these guys attacked the united States, we're going to eliminate the terrorist threat.

And war is such a strange and surreal circumstance because it changes you for good, it changes you for the bad, and I've looked at this a lot. And I looked at, like, life experience like a radio wave, almost like a, where you have highs, you have lows, and most people, we'll call it 90-plus percent of the United States, their frequency only gets so high and only gets so low, and it basically stays within, we'll say, a fairly small band within the center.
Combat, what happens is you go really high and you go really low and it

forces you outside of social norms on a second to second basis. And then you do that over and over and over again.
And so one person might get in a car wreck in their life and that goes really low. So it's a really high adrenaline dump and it goes really low because they have an injury.
That like one thing well going out in a combat zone multiple night like not only multiple nights a week sometimes you're doing multiple targets a night you might go you might be getting a what the rough equivalent of an adrenaline car wreck what the rough equivalent of a car wreck from an adrenaline dump and a high and a low, you might be doing that three or four times a night. And then you're doing that night after night, week after week, and it fundamentally changes you because you have to chop all of this down because if you get too ramped up and too chaotic, you're going to lose control and you won't be able to

complete your mission criteria. If you get too low, you also won't be able to achieve your mission criteria.
Your survival instincts kick down. So it chops your ability to feel all the way down to a normal person's bandwidth because it's a survival mechanism.
And this is just my own assessment.

So

from a combat experience

perspective,

the survival mechanism this is just my own assessment so from a combat experience perspective the first time you feel it and i'll tell you i mean the first time i was uh in an ambush i was losing my shit i mean anybody who tells you they're not fucking scared they're either fundamentally flawed, they're like Travis Pastrana, he doesn't have a fear portion of his brain, or they're just lying. You're scared out of your fucking mind.
Going north, driving north into Iraq, you're looking into the deep, dark abyss of the unknown, and you're like, what the fuck? Am I going to be a coward am I gonna die I mean our casualty projected casualty rates was that we were gonna lose most of our ODA so you're you're stepping into a situation where you're going okay well I know out of this six shooter that I'm gonna play Russian roulette with there are four bullets in this oh my god and you're driving north going okay let's fucking do it so you've already capitulated and given yourself up to die which is it's actually a very cathartic and I think personally an experience that you can evolve from because at that point if you're dead you can live uninhibited like everything i do from this point forward this is gravy on on the steak man i'm already dead right i was driving north in in iraq and i like through like the desert and my best friend and i are like driving north and and you have like hours to stare off into the fucking sand you know you're you're you've got night vision goggles or whatever I had a whole fictionalized funeral for myself I just fucking what else am I gonna do right you're just like driving north you know and there's nothing going on so I had a whole fictionalized funeral I buried myself and so I was already dead or at least I felt like that and then we get in her first engagement and the world starts cracking apart and your mind can't keep up to what what's actually happening. You'll hear the gunfire.

And, you know, I felt the explosion. I looked in the rear view mirror of the Humvee, which just sounds crazy.
I looked in the rear view mirror. And I saw this, like, car-sized chunk of fire flying behind the vehicle.
Like, so distinctly remember this. and I'm turning my my team leader and i'm like we gotta get the fuck out of here you know i'm like losing it right it's so stupid that's so stupid we gotta get the fuck out of here you know like losing it dude i'm just fucking losing it and he's like and he's cool man he's like calm cool he's on the radio you know he's like you know vehicle one you know or vehicle three this vehicle one vehicle three this vehicle one and we're checking to see if we have comms between us and the other vehicles and i'm fucking losing it i'm like why get the fuck out of here you know it's like okay because i mean you know you're used to like watching movies or whatever and it's the first time anything like this has ever happened right and and at this point you know the full insurgency hasn't kicked off that we're hunting feta yin these guys weren't the most sophisticated cats on the planet they weren't that good so but we end up pushing through and then consolidating at the end of this and fundamentally this this like changed my tactical experience in combat forever because my team leader who i respect and love he was killed two years later he's one of my best friends and was my best friend um he turns to me and he goes hey man if you don't have a solution to the problem just shut the fuck up

that's great advice i know that's great advice across the board yeah and uh i was like okay roger that you know i was like okay fucking roger that man and then it became a practice discipline

when shit's going

super solid Roger that man and then it became a practice discipline when shits going super sideways and you know bullets it well when bullets are flying I hate sounding like that I don't want to say I don't want to sound like that at all but that's what it is dude you keep your shit together And then i became by the time i my my last ambush in iraq i was in was my i saw i'll bookend this experience with ambushes yeah i was in mousul and i was in a uh little bmw trying to work my way and i was i was working as basically a low like you're trying to fly under the radar. You're low vis CIA at this point.
So we're trying to blend in. We got hit at a checkpoint when they light us up.
And so now I'm alone in a car with another guy in the CIA chief. And the entire Iraqi army in Mosul, Iraq is essentially pursuing us through the, from, I mean, Mosul is the size of Los Angeles.
And I started at the north end of Los Angeles, basically, and had to work my way to the southern end of Los Angeles being shot at. And I'm trying to sort through the problem, man.
Like, I got a fucking map sheet. And you don't know.
I mean, this is Mad Max and the fucking Thunderdome. And Mosul was one of the most fucked up cities in Iraq.
Like, it was, it looked like going back to Stalingrad in different sections of this place. It was a complete shit show.
And I'm alone with my, you know, the guys with. And I'm trying to navigate through the city and help the driver.
We're being pursued from literally north to south, being shot at, and we're going, okay, right turn, right turn, right turn. And I have, like, the dragons are at the bumper.
They're going to pull me out of this car and chop my fucking head off. Like, they're going to turn my car into Swiss cheese.
They're going to fucking chop my head off. I'm dead.
We're dead. And I have, like, I brought up Kiowas.
They were on station. We had a really good, really good relationship with these guys.
And I was like, hey, you know, you, i'm in a you know black bmw like and uh you know i'm moving you know uh from north to south and uh and the helicopter came back so i know who you are you got the everybody following you because we not all checkpoints are created equal and for whatever reason they decided they were going to kill us that day and i mean you don't have time you're not going to sit around be like why do you guys want to kill us well we're just good guys you know uh you're just going to keep moving i had to work my way all the way south um to a bridge and i had like one last one last fucking hill mary man like we had to get across we had to get across a bridge into a I had like one last. One last fucking hill Mary man.

Like we had to get across.

We had to get across a bridge.

Into a place called Diamondback.

And I didn't have a QRF.

Because they couldn't pin us down.

A quick reaction force.

And like the Kai was.

Like they saved our life. Because they had the roads blocked off on the bridge.

And I was basically smoking in. Like a hundred fucking kilometers an hour and the Kiowas came down and like literally dropped their fucking skids on the front of the on the on the front of the car and panned around like we're gonna kill all you fuckers Wow and I looked over at one of the guys I looked over and and like flipped him off.
And it was like, you dead, you know? And then like parting the seas, like Moses or whatever, they moved the fucking cars and we drove back in. That was it.
So bookending, my point of that conversation was I was losing my shit, the first one, right? And I came back and I was talking to Kiowas and they're like bro we didn't know how bad this was because it sounded like you were ordering a pizza but everything everything in between was like like rep after rep after rep after rep was like like calm down keep your shit together and one of my really close friends uh this guy jeff kirkham my first team sergeant like awesome fucking guy like one of the most tactically relevant people in my life uh he's like psychology is more contagious than the flu so when you start start losing your shit, it infects everybody else around you. What a great quote.
Psychology is more infectious than the flu. That is a great quote.
Yeah, man. That's so real.
So real. That's so real.
That's so real. everything everything everything it controlled every Piece of what I would do from that point forward like lose your shit in a gunfight and Then you infect everybody else around you yes rise to the occasion be the calm in the chaos become a, know even if you don't feel like it even if you're you're a wigging out man like of course internally you can't you can barely keep your shit together but what you do is you're like okay but i gotta i i gotta project this because if i infect everybody else with my chaos, I'm injecting more chaos into the equation.
And we're all we're all going to run the possibility of dying because of this, because of my actions. I think that's why people gravitate towards inspirational figures is because they're trying to get some of that psychology.
They're trying to get it worn off on them. You know, great quotes and great feats and fascinating people.
You want to absorb some of that psychology. That is such a great quote, though, because it's so true.
If you're around someone that's freaking out, you're trying to keep your shit together, it's so hard to keep your shit together. You can't.
But if you're around a bunch of dudes that still surgeons and stoic yeah and they there's no flexion what i would say is like in the time and repetition in the community i mean there's a default emotion that is acceptable it's you know anger right so anger and when i say joy it's like joy from gallows humor typically right but it's like

you have to everybody becomes a stoic yeah nothing can phase you and if you are a guy that is phased

you're a liability you're a liability you're gonna get chopped yeah you're you're infected

yeah exactly yeah so iraq so going back to what what I was talking about with Iraq I'm supercharged and My reality started to kind of crumble is We met we went up we were on the first ODAs and we did this joint op with the CIA to go meet this guy,

Muqtada al-Sadr.

This is early on.

This is like March of the war.

And Muqtada al-Sadr became a prominent figure later on in the war.

He was relatively not known at all in the beginning of it.

And I was working with the CIA case officer at that point. Not just me.
It was like my entire team. And McTaddle's like, he's a bad guy.
Like, he's just a real piece of shit. And at that point, on Najaf was this town.
And we went out, did a meeting with him. And we came back.
And all of us on the military, paramilitary side were like, this guy needs to die. Like, we need to actually go.
And he has a small armed force. He's basically going to be the instrument of the Iranians.
And we're having this big debate in the team room. And everybody that carried he gone, like, we speak animal kingdom.
We know when there's a threat right and then we have this case officer who's like a you know adjunct professor fucking Georgetown I didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground we're like this guy needs to die we need to go like get on him now and case officer is like no he's gonna work with us you know we're like they wanted him to be an asset yeah like this guy is a fucking stupid like this guy's a he's a shia supposedly shia cleric you know if you know that iraq you got 60 of the country shia it's typically going to answer iran you've got% is up north. It's the Kurds.
And then you've got the rest of the Sunni. And we're like, this guy's not going to fucking work with us.
And this guy's a real piece of shit. And he's already spinning up a militia.
He's going to be a problem. No, no, no, no.
And we're like, okay. You're the big brain on brad you know you're the you're the phd man like sure you know so we acquiesce and years later i don't know how many guys died going into going back into najaf trying to find this fucking guy i don't't know how many.
I mean, it was a whole basically surge push or probably a division to try to go find this guy. But we had the opportunity to kill him right there.
Like literally we could have, like he had less than 40 guys on the compound and we could have like gone out and got him right like that night. And then he became a problem.
And not only did he become a problem it was like the the the decision makers were so poor at that point in the early in the war it started to really affect me in the sense of like i i was still bought and sold but i started to really think these guys might not know what the fuck they're doing when, um, it was like Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld and, um, Brennan, um, when they de-bathified Iraq. So after we invaded, they, they did this thing called de-bathification, which was basically they fired the military and everybody that was involved in the bath party.
And once again, we're in the team room and we're watching CNN and it's Rumsfeld talking about we're debathifying Iraq, we're firing everybody. And I'm not exaggerating, everybody in the team room was like, what the fuck? Like, you guys are going to create the insurgency it was on the ground that moment that second like I wanted to throw like I wanted to throw a fucking brick through the TV like I was like these guys are paint by numbers creating an insurgency they have no fucking clue what what they're doing.
And that was like that moment, which is fairly early, where I lost a lot of confidence in the decision makers. But, okay, you know, the question is, why'd you keep going back? Well, because you want to try to search for meaning and you're trying to find the the actual purpose like what is the purpose like are there wmds here like are there you know like legit um direct traces back to 9-11?

Are there things that we're doing that are going to directly affect and protect America? And you're kind of searching for it. And not kind of, you are.
Like that's what you're doing, or at least that's what I was doing. And by the time I left in 2009 um uh I just figured I was gonna die like I was like fuck this place like fuck like like um I lived Iraq right and then I was like well I think time and repetition in thinking that you're dead for that long and then searching for not only some some what i would say is good in the war itself because there is good you have your buddies you have the camaraderie you have the adrenaline but you also think you're going to fucking die every day for years on end and that's not fundamentally it turns out it's probably not good for you psychologically i guess and so i went to afghanistan thinking well and i went to train afghanis for um a force up there and when i went to train thoseis for, um, a force up there.
And when I went to train those guys,

it was, Hey, if I can train Afghanis to take on the war, uh, maybe I can protect 18 year old kids from getting their fucking legs blown off. You know, maybe I can protect the, you know, the 20 year old kid from

Nebraska from getting

a fucking RPG stuff through their face

and you know, the 20-year-old kid from Nebraska from getting a fucking RPG stuffed through their face. And I was older, and I was also willing to die.
So the kids, when I say the kids, you know, 18, 20 years old, like, man, it's not, you know, it's not fun to watch this. When I say that, that's an understatement.
It's so heartbreaking to watch a kid that's never been to fucking combat, like, die. It changes everything in your life.
And so you go from, you know, Iraq to afghanistan you know and i'm watching all this stuff unfold and there's like there's and i don't want to say it's all negative because there's there's you know there were things that were very positive but uh i'm so jaded by the time i get there that i'm like well if i can save can save some Americans, I'll save some Americans. And, you know, if not, at least this will be an interesting experience.
And then, you know, there's a laundry list of other things we can talk about. I don't want to get so fucking down, I guess.
It seems like it's impossible not to once you're going back on it. And there's,

how could you not? And the overwhelming negative experiences, the overwhelming, horrific experiences. Well, I think that's where I have this massive distrust in politicians.
and I think that's part of the reason

they have

squandered the courage of the american servicemen in these these forever wars that we've entered in under lies so like you know wolfowitz and W and Rumsfeld and... Yeah.
And sorry, man, I don't have any respect for those guys. Like, I don't...
Not only do I not have any respect for those guys, I have a profound amount of hatred for their arrogance. Because I'm in my 20s.
I'm not making excuses, but, you know, there's plenty of guys like me that were not only hook, land, and sinker, and I still would.

I'd still sign up for this country.

I think service is a remarkable courage. It's courage and service back to our community is something we have to cherish like we do.
But when you have an orchestra of idiots that are manipulating the courageous men and women of our country to go into these wars based on a neocon pipe dream. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter.
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You know, you can pull out of Afghanistan and leave billions of dollars of equipment. Who the fuck got fired? But if I made a mistake, if me and my buddies made a mistake, we fucking, we lost our lives.
We'd go to jail. Like, we lost our clearances.
And I'm not trying to sound like a whiny bitch. I'm just saying, like, no consequences for these guys.
Nothing. Nothing.
You know, they get to go paint paintings and they think it's okay. Imagine no consequences for lying about weapons of mass destruction.
And has there ever been a large-scale investigation as to what led them to either believe or to push the narrative that there was weapons of mass destruction well i think if you you read i mean i i mean there's there's a lot i think there's a lot of like um there's a lot of books out there obviously and whether or not you have to kind of sort through the actual documents and figure out like where these guys were at. And I've spent a little bit of my life trying to understand from their perspective.
And I honestly think big part of it is the guys who are making the decisions, their hubris, their utopian belief that they were going to be able to rebuild Iraq, like Houston, you know like oh it's an oil country you know and you know they really believed that if they didn't rein in this rogue nation of Iraq that Iraq was going to eventually contribute to terrorism and you had guys that were so consumed with their intelligence when it flipped to not only hubris but they didn't have wisdom they had intelligence the wolfowitz is a smart guy he's not an idiot the problem is he's not wise these guys weren't wise men there's a difference between having a high iq and having the experience and repetition seeing death and destruction seeing people's lives fucking torn apart and then understanding something from reading a book or thinking about it from an economics perspective and you know i think wolfowitzfeld, Cheney, they had this belief that they could do anything they wanted to validate this. And they did.
They had to data mine information and pull and pluck from different analysts that agreed with them. But most of the intel community didn't agree with them.
They're like, we had defeated the Iraqi army to the point when I say defeated it. Like, if we go back to the 90s, we say Desert Storm was 91.
And then from that point forward, you can basically say, you know, HW to Clinton administration, Clinton administration with the economic sanctions. And with the integrated bombing campaigns that they had led throughout the 90s we had essentially stuffed that guy back into a hole where the only thing he could do is sell oil on the black market and he had a really he had he had a fascist state where he he and his family had you know complete control out of the, but he wasn't going to be a threat from an international terrorism perspective.

That's just false.

It's not only false, but it is patently false.

And they had to mine the data to validate it.

They had to lie.

They had to sift through and find and pick and pull the pieces of information. And they really thought this was going to be a fucking cakewalk.
They did. Because of Desert Storm, you think? They thought because of Desert Storm and what they, and they were listening to these assets like Chalabi and some of these Iraq, former Iraqi exiles, and are listening to these guys who, by the way, were also manipulated by

the Iranians and paid for by Iranian intel guys, their Iranian assets. They're listening to these people and they were living in their own echo chambers, validating this idea that it was better for regime change, for the international, not only the international economy, but it was going to be a stable

petroleum

based country where for the international, not only the international economy, but it was going to be a stable petroleum-based country

where we could integrate democracy.

And none of these guys were Erebus.

None of these guys actually understood the Middle East, not one.

They didn't have any combat experience.

They didn't really have any combat experience

from the long-term, low-intensity conflict uh guerrilla warfare perspective they were given not only the information but they were given a most of the information they were given was was saying this is going to be much more complex than you think it's going to be and they denied denied not only the opinions, but the information. And they went ahead with their fucking plans.
Anyway, Rumsfeld chopped single handedly dictated how many people were going to participate in the war. Like he was dictating how many divisions that was going to take.
And he's like, actually, I think you could do it for half that. Like he was like trying to negotiate how many guys that Tommy Franks was going to use and he's like actually i think you could do it for half that like he was like trying to negotiate how many guys that tommy franks was going to use to invade iraq and tommy franks didn't have the balls to say actually i need two more divisions so a lot of this is just like fundamentally these are professional politicians and bureaucrats drinking their own piss like i was saying earlier you know like you can drink your own piss once or twice before your kidneys start to shut down and it'll fucking kill you.
Right. These guys are all sitting around in their echo chambers talking to the same types of people, defining how they were going to send servicemen and women to Iraq.
And they were wrong. Not only were they wrong, but they were told otherwise by lots of different people to include, I mean, Tony Blair had a lot of different issues with this.
Colin Powell essentially sold this and got the dominoes to fall on the entire thing because they knew that Colin Powell was so respected that if he sat in front of the UN with Tennant, who was the director of the CIA, right behind him and held up this little thing of VX or whatever it was, that they could push it across the line from the international community.

I mean, these guys were crooked, man.

And not only were they crooked, they were so fundamentally wrong.

And there's no consequences nothing zero consequences they put Martha Stewart in jail yeah yeah they go after Trump for fucking two years on you know Russia collusion it's like you spent seven trillion dollars in thousands of American lives a hundreds of thousands of lives in Afghanistan and Iraq And you're saying you're going to put this guy through the ringer for two years because there might be some dossier that was paid for by the Clintons? Like, who's the criminal? And so for me, I get all wound up when it comes to this because rep after rep, year after year, my two closest friends in the world were literally one torn in half by an EFP, which was an Iranian-manufactured shape charge. My other friend was turned into fucking moon dust.
And, I mean, these are my two closest friends in the world. The guys grew up with in in the army that i spent every fucking day with and uh since then i've had obviously more friends but i mean those are the two closest friends in the earliest part of the war so i'm so directly affected by this because it fundamentally changed who I was forever.
It gave me a profound amount of mistrust in my government and the decision makers. I actually don't believe what they're telling me anymore.
I have a lot of skepticism when it comes to the people that are pulling the handles in government. And I have to go to my peer set.
And what I told people is, man, my currency is courage, right? It's like that's what I broker in. So my friends that have gone through the GWAT, which I'm extremely happy for all these GWAT guys that are getting appointed to these positions.
You've got Pete, you've got Tulsi, JD. They fundamentally know what war is.
And when you have decision makers that have never been to war and their kids will never go to war. Cheney's kids never went to war w's kids never went to war right rums like and none of these guys by the way they're all vietnam era guys none of them went to fucking vietnam so it's really easy trump trump didn't either right you got a bunch of deferments but i think the difference is is that when somebody's saying stop the endless wars.
Right. I am more than happy to go chips in on that narrative than I am to go, oh, we need to invest in and put more time, money, energy into creating more chaos and destruction in the American service members lives or the lives of other people.
Did you ever see that speech with Mike Pence and Tucker Carlson? No. Tucker Carlson essentially ended Mike Pence's political career.
Really? In one speech. Yeah.
Because this was when Pence was running for president and Tucker was sitting there with him and Pence was talking about getting helicopters and tanks and weapons to Ukraine. And he was explaining how they were being incompetent because they weren't providing them with what they needed.
And Tucker went on this rant. See if you can find it.
I bet you could find it under that. Here it is.
Listen to this. Let me hear what he says.
Just start right where your cursor is. Click where your cursor is.
We'll let somebody transfer some jets. I'm sorry, Mr.
Vice President. I know you're running for president.
You are distressed that the Ukrainians don't have enough American tanks. Every city in the United States has become much worse over the past three years.
Drive around. There's not one city that's gotten better in the United States.
And it's visible. Our economy has degraded.
The suicide rate has jumped. Public filth and disorder and crime have exponentially increased.

And yet your concern is that the Ukrainians, a country most people can't find on a map, who've received tens of billions of U.S. tax dollars, don't have enough tanks.

I think it's a fair question to ask, like, where's the concern for the United States in that?

Well, it's not my concern.

Tucker, I've heard that routine from you that? Well it's not my concern. Tucker I've heard that routine from you before but that's not my concern.
I'm running for president of the United States because I think this country's in a lot of trouble. I think Joe Biden has weakened America at home and abroad.
And as president of the United States we're going to restore law and order in our cities. We're going to secure our border.
We're going to get this economy moving again. And we're going to make sure that we have men and women on our courts at every level that will stand for the right to life and defend all the God-given liberties enshrined in our Constitution.
Anybody that says that we can't be the leader of the free world and solve our problems at home has a pretty small view of the greatest nation on earth. We can do both.
And as President of the United States, we will secure our border, we will support our military, we will revive our economy and stand by our values, and we will also lead the world for freedom under my administration. I promise you.
Amen. Vice President Mike Pence, thank you very much.
Just that. That's not's not my concern that's not my concern what the fuck are you talking about why how would you ever answer anything that way that is not my concern that's not your concern you don't you don't think he just made a really good point that we're we're really confused as to first of all aren't we like a trillion dollars in debt how do we're 35 and a half trillion dollars in debt.
Like, it's crazy. It's crazy.
How do we have the money? How do we have the money to send to Iraq and we don't have the money to fix our cities? And how can you say that's not my concern? That, what that is, is the opposite of what Trump is. That is nonsense talk.
Not that he doesn't have nonsense talk. But that is not a person's real feelings.
That is just political speech. That's just, we're going to clean up our country.
We're going to preserve the right to life. It's memorizing soundbites.
Exactly, exactly. And that's the entire problem with Washington right there.
Yeah, exactly. They memorize soundbites.
They say one thing. They do the other thing.
Exactly. Exactly.
Completely. They've lost the trust of their constituents.
They've lost the trust of the American public. And by the way, it's administration after administration.
It's politician after politician. Yeah.
There's, it's not, it shouldn't be a surprise that people don't like politicians. I mean, look at that guy.
Yeah. He's a fucking robot.
He's weird. He's a weird dude.
He's weird. You know, they kept trying to say JD's weird.
JD's not weird at all. I meant that guy.
He's fucking cool. He's normal.
Smart as shit. I could hang with that guy.
He could be my friend. Yeah.
He's not even a little weird. No, that guy's weird.
I mean, I guess anybody who's that smart is weird. You know, people that go to Yale, people that, he's weird in that way.
Like, that's an odd dude. You don't see a lot of those.
But normal. That guy's bizarre.
Like, his face doesn't move. Did you get Botox at 80? Like, what the fuck is going on? Like, you're weird.
I think they have low IQs and they're pushing that thing to the red. That's why they're actually so afraid to do anything because they're like, I'm really pushing this thing.
I've got like a hundy, like a 105, but my parents were rich. So I went to Yale.
And if I break outside of my box, actually people are going to know that I'm a fucking retard. Right.
Well, I also think that if you're that ambition, you have ambition at that level, and you're so driven to become the alpha that you want to be the president, the amount of work that's involved in that doesn't leave a whole lot of room for reading. It doesn't leave a whole lot of room for watching documentaries and having important in-depth conversations with people, expanding your understanding of the world.
It narrow they're basically actors a lot most of these people exhibit a lot of the traits that I see in actors this desire to morph

oneself to please the people around you the saying the things you think people

want to hear because you want to get ahead it's it's all like very similar

they're actors and the fact that these actors can rise to a position where they can actually dictate what these military veterans do and don't do when they have no knowledge or experience in this now that's the fact that that's a real thing is fucking crazy it's really crazy crazy. I mean, I think that's...
By the time I left, I was so jaded and the motivating factor was... Oh, sorry.
I was like, no man will ever have control over my destiny again. Like, I will not...
I will not put a bit in my mouth for another man in the government.

They will not be making decisions for me.

Yeah, I don't think we can recall a time in our history where we did trust the government, which is such a weird thing to say.

You know, I used to think it was the Obama administration.

But boy, Obama during this Kamala Harris administration, it changed my opinion of that guy. Really? Did you have a high opinion of him before? Yeah, I did.
Yeah, I did just as an intelligent person, a statesman. I felt like he's probably like caught up in the system.
It's very difficult to make real meaningful change. You know, you think you're going to do something and then you get into office and you're like, Oh God, what a fucking quagmire this place is.
But watching him just straight up lie about Trump, the thing that got me was that very fine people thing with the white supremacist thing. They just kept trying to say that he was a racist, which is this thing that I think worked in like 2017.
You know, I think it worked back then. I don't think it works anymore.
I don't think people believe it anymore. I think that we've gotten numb to all this stuff.
Well, it's a sky is falling thing, right? Yeah. Like, yeah.
Cry wolf or whatever. It's like, you guys can only call, you only call me a fascist so many times.
I mean, like the New York times wrote that article a couple of years ago, right? Where I'm like like it was the front of the coffee cup where it's like do you want trump 2024 do you want low taxes do you want this yeah i'm like i want all that sounds good and uh like you can only call me a fascist racist asshole i mean to be fair like i i can float into the asshole category relatively easy, but you can only call all of us that. Only when prompted.

Yeah, it's prompted You know what my fucking favorite things of this whole election cycle has been? Yesterday When Biden and Trump sat down in the White House Biden voted for Trump I guarantee it I fucking guarantee it I never saw that dude so happy in his fucking life he lost his party lost he was happy when when Obama had to shake hands with Trump and do the whole transition thing Obama looked like Jesus Christ Look at his fucking smile, dude. Trump's like, whatever.
Look at his fucking smile, man. That's like when your kid gets married.
That dude looks like a hairless cat. Look at him.
It's great. First of all, what have they done to him? What have they done to his face? Go back to the other picture because it was more high res.
Look at his mug, man all For sure he's got something going on with his forehead They Botoxed the shit out of his forehead They gave him a facelift for sure There was a bunch of different things they did which Very ill advised by the way folks Look at Trump he looks like shit No one cares everyone loves him You don't look better if you get your face pulled back Like a lizard You just look You just look more like a lizard. Everybody thinks you're a lizard already.
But look at that smile. That motherfucker's never been happier in his life.
In his life. He's like that bitch.
She went down. You can't tell me he wasn't happy.
Like when he put that MAGA hat on. You ever see that? Oh, yeah, yeah.
He put the MAGA hat on and he took it with him on the plane. I guarantee you, I guarantee you that motherfucker was happy.
He had a giant smile on his face. He said, welcome back to him.
I thought it was Hitler. I thought he was dangerous.
That's what they all said, right? It's like, hey, he's a threat to democracy. I thought he was a Nazi.
And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, hey, we're going to have a smooth transition here. This was the guy that you said was sharp as a tack.
He was going to be up until four months ago. Four months ago, that guy was going to be running again.
And now here he is smiling like a Cheshire cat. How big was his smile? That's a crazy smile.
Man, he looks like a mask He might be There was that one fake Biden Did you ever see the fake Biden? The tall guy? That guy was so much taller He's a giant Biden It made no sense They're going to smoke that one by us It's like dude this guy's like, six seven could be playing in the NBA He was so much taller. They showed Jill and him together.
Jill's like what happened? That's a different human being totally it's so nuts man It's so nuts all the different things that happened during this election are wilder than anything you've ever seen in a fucking movie It It brought, I think it brought so many more people into politics too.

And people, the more people pay attention to what's going on with politicians, with the country, I don't think that's a bad thing. Because I think bureaucrats and politicians alike, they directly benefit from people not paying attention.
Yes. And so they only want you to pay attention once a year when they're going to try to get everybody galvanized around a couple little stupid things and then get them out to the voting booth but not too many like we don't want a lot of complex thought out of the voters we don't really want them to think about too much right because you know we still got uh we still got a national deficit that we got to increase and i got to line the line the pockets of all my buddies yeah you know raythe, Northrop Grumman, and Lockheed Martin.
Like, we don't want them to get in too far. Like, don't start talking about the reserve or don't start talking about any other stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I think that's what it is.
Well, I think that's also why politicians are, some of them at least, are terrified of podcasts. Yeah.
Because you do have to talk about that. But that's what makes guys like J.D.
and guys like Trump unique in that they will just sit and talk with anybody. I mean, he sat with Theo Vaughn.
Theo talked to him about doing coke. That's awesome.
It was so funny. Theo's amazing.
It was amazing. Theo's an ability to be himself no matter who he's talking to.
And him talking to Trump about how he used to love to do coke. It's like, and Trump's just sitting there, which was super funny, by the way.
Sitting like this poor guy. Like you see Theo falling apart in front of you.
Like, Jesus Christ, I thought I was running for president here. I think I might have to help this young fella.
Who do I need to talk to about this? But like, you know, Kamala didn't have the ability to do that.

Or if she did, nobody brought it out of her.

I was hoping I could.

I really was.

I was hoping I could have a conversation with her.

There's all this talk now that the reason why she didn't do it is because of progressive people in her party, the pushback.

Right.

Which might have some truth to it, but for the record, they offered me two very specific and In different places in the country to travel and then go do it and do it for an hour I said I didn't want to do that and especially after Trump had done it here and three hours I'm like this is the only way to do it and Elon said it best He said he goes you can kind of bullshit someone for an hour because our two and hour three like that's that's when the real You comes out. Yeah, you're you're gonna get it's the real you you're gonna you're gonna tear the layers off the onion right so it's like percent it might make you cry yeah and the more you peel it the more you might be like oh this person's fucking stupid how much are you bullshitting the world right yeah the the quote about trump or the narrative about trump has always been that he's bullshitting everybody, that he's a con man.
He's definitely very persuasive. Scott Adams has wrote about this pretty much in depth about how well Trump practices the art of persuasion.
You know, the art of the deal. He's great at making people his friend and making relationships.
And if you're his enemy, fuck you, scorched earth. You know, it's like this.
And there's fear fear of that you don't want to get on his bad side there's all this like there's this art of like how he negotiates and he's gone through this years and years and years of business but but that's him that's the guy's right there you could talk to him about everything and anything he's right there he's not protecting any of his ideas he called a girl he's allegedly slept with horse face when he was the president on Twitter it's so funny it's the wildest shit so you're getting what you get that's who the guy is and you love I like him I've gone I've grown to like him I had a much more negative opinion of him back in the day because it was there's only so much you can pay attention to and do deep divesives on before you lose your fucking mind. And with him, I was always like, oh, that guy, they grab him by the pussy guy.
It's probably not good for the country. That seems crazy.
But as time went on, I was like, oh, you need a guy that is completely crazy to expose how corrupt the whole system is. And how they all collude together.
how they all they all say this There's all these montages of clips of news organizations saying the same narrative outright over and over Verbatim word by word they're getting fed this by someone some entity some they're somehow or another they're Collaborating and they're all choosing this very specific And they're running with it. And they're trying to destroy people with it.
And I saw them do it with me. I saw them do it with me during the COVID thing.
And it was all motivated by the pharmaceutical drug companies and the profits. And they were terrified that someone's going to come along and somehow or another put a notch in this little thing that they've created, which is a devious little thing that they've done, where they eliminated all sorts of other remedies.
They cut out all these generic drugs that possibly could have been used to help people. They denied people the use of monoclonal antibodies.
They pushed the fucking shit out of this one thing so they could make money off of it. And they did it in collusion with the media.
No one acted like a journalist. No one looked at the excess deaths.
No one looked at the instances of myocarditis in young people. No one looked at any of that.
There was no journalism. It just showed everyone that the whole system is bought and paid for.
It's all corrupt. And the only way you could find out who a person really is is to listen to them talk for long periods of time

It's the only thing. It's the only truth serum we have left right and even that's not 100 effective but it's pretty good it's pretty your brain knows bullshit you know you ever like met some guy and like he's dating this girl that you know and there's just something about the it's like what he's shaking my hand He's being nice to me.
I'm like, I don't trust this motherfucker Something's gross about this guy and then you find out he's a piece of shit But it's always this thing like yeah feel something if you talk to someone long enough There's patterns in the way they talk the way they think the way they consider things Whether or not they can admit that they're wrong or whether or not they can tell you why they changed their mind. How did they form their narratives? Like what bad paths were they on and what personal correction did they make and how long did it take before you got to a better place? You learn about people when you hear them talk for long periods of time.
You can't fake personal growth. You can't fake stuff you've learned.

You can't fake flaws

that you're willing to expose to people

so that they can perhaps see them in themselves.

You can't fake that.

And all those people like Mike Pence,

he's got zero of that.

You can't sit that guy down

and have a real conversation with him.

He's so afraid.

Honestly, I don't think he even knows who he is. Probably doesn't.
Guys like that don't even know who they are. Like an actor.
Yeah, yeah. They're like actors.
My buddy Dave, we were talking yesterday. You met him the other night.
I've known him for 20 years. Great guy.
He was a lot of fun. Dude, we met in Kabul back in the day.
Dave and I, we like we go way back he's good friends with bruce and with my friend yeah yeah crazy like because he was a team guy right so he's like former clcia guy and dave and we're talking about this and when you when you can just be authentically engaged with people where you can just be yourself and and that's part of the issue with, I think, a lot of vets is, and why they like, why they connect really well with vets is because you can just authentically engage with people and say, I, this person knows I'm a little bit broken. This person knows that I've probably done shit that I'm not super proud of.
And they know that I've a dark sense of humor But I can like just kind of open I can open my heart and just have a real conversation with somebody And that's the shit you chase Yeah, where you can just be yourself and you can talk about stuff and you can like Try to evolve the way you're thinking and feeling right In these artificial bullshit conversations that we have throughout our day with people we don't give a shit about or these like, you know, inauthentic, unreal, you know, veneer people. It's like, I have no interest in having a conversation with a fake person.

That is stupid.

The best thing that I took out of moving to Texas from moving to L.A.

I have way less of those conversations.

I have almost none of them here. All my conversations with here look with normal people, right? They're normal So many people are infected by the rhythm of Hollywood Which is just about people trying to become successful and the way you become successful in Hollywood is you get chosen Because you have to go on auditions, right? That's the that's the primary right the number one top of the food chain Well, I guess rock star rock star and movie star or number one and number two maybe interchangeable Maybe they're the same same if it's a ten like biggest stars in the world.
It's ten movie stars and rock stars and movie stars everything you do is about your relationships with people and Whether or not people think you align with them politically and whether or not you support the right causes you wear the bow tie at the Oscars You act proper you do all the things that you're supposed to do And if you do all the things you're supposed to do then you get into the club You know and if you don't do all the things you're gonna do then they're not gonna use you they're gonna use Daniel Craig they're gonna use this guy then to use that guy. They're gonna use Dave Bautista.
They're gonna use the rock They're gonna use there's so many guys that want these roles and there's only so many good roles, right? Especially if you're gonna be a male movie star, you know So no one can color outside the lines and Dennis Quaid is like one of the rare few male movie stars who just fucking completely gave up. He's like, I support Trump.
I support, I'm a Christian. You know, I sing gospel music.
Like, fuck you. I quit.
And he did this Reagan movie. It was a Reagan movie.
Okay. It's about a 1980s president.
They wouldn't let him advertise on certain social media networks because they said it was during the time of the election. And it could affect the election.
What was it? Was it Facebook? That's insane. Was it YouTube or Facebook? One of the social media outlets kept him from advertising this movie, which is a great movie, about Reagan, where he plays Reagan.
He does a fucking amazing job. It has nothing to do with today! It's about a guy who's dead.
He's dead. He's been dead forever.
He was dead his last year in office. He was fucking full on Alzheimer's.
That's the thing with this whole social media censorship, demonization, the way that they've they've they honestly and i say they this episode is brought to you by tiktok 7.5 million u.s businesses from restaurants to mechanic shops to real estate firms rely on tiktok to grow together they employ more than 28 million people because when small businesses thrive communities do too Small businesses thrive on TikTok to grow. Together, they employ more than 28 million people.
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There's a big group and you, I mean, you were talking about it the other night, even with your show, with the Trump show, and then it's not trending. You can't even find it.
The firearms community on YouTube deals with this all the time. Oh yeah, all the time.
You know, the guys that have the huge YouTube channels from a firearms perspective, they're demonetized. They have to upload multiple times.
They're in like a constant battle. My good friend Collins, Koleon Noir, his fucking show, he can't get it to grow.
He can't get his Instagram to grow he's like completely stifled and they're they're keeping the lid on this yes I mean like Brandon Herrera was a say after he's on the podcast Facebook acknowledged mistake and lifted the restriction look at this he expressed belief that Facebook labeled the content as an attempt to sway an election. Yeah.
The entire...

Thank you, Facebook. Firearms.
It was automated in their defense, but that's what they said. It was just a mistake, Jamie.
I'm just... That's what they said.
Jamie is just a mistake. Yeah.
The entire firearms community, and it's weird because we... When I say we, we talk about it all the time.
Like whether it's, you know, the biggest YouTube channels on, for the firearm space, they're constantly battling, trying to keep their channels up. This is a constitutionally protected right.
Right. And because there's a difference in political opinion, they can tip the scale.
Right. Which is completely insane to me.
And there's a lot of traffic. I mean, you think about some of these really big channels that are out there.
These guys drive millions and millions of views. People obviously want to watch and they can't increase their reach or they get demonetized and they're constantly screwed with over and over and over again.
And that's the way that we've, I think a lot of us have felt we've been living under the thumb of, you know, our, our, our social media oligarchs that are deciding whether or not our information is agreeable to their political opinion. And it's like, did I ever tell you the time that I was having a conversation with a Facebook or YouTube executive and my wife had to grab my leg under the table and stop me? Seriously? In Hawaii.
Okay. So I'm with a friend and my friend was a, uh, an executive at Google, a very nice person, great, no problems with them.
We're all having a good time. We're sitting down drinking and talking and, uh, I got a couple in me and, uh, this lady who's a big wig at're sitting down drinking and talking and uh i got a couple in me and uh

this lady who's a big wig at youtube sits down across from me and we start talking and uh i said when it comes so we get into this conversation it's a very friendly conversation nothing problematic at all i don't think she knows you know even knows who i am and this is a long time ago so this is like 2015 14 so my podcast is not that big right it's not

that big. It's not that big at all.
I can tell you exactly when it was. When did Sam Harris and Douglas Murray have a conversation? When did The Strange Death of Europe come out? Tell me about that.
That's Douglas Murray's amazing book that has been proved now to be absolutely accurate in his assessment of what was going to happen to Europe with Muslim integration. Essentially, the guy nailed it.
And him and Sam Harris. Okay, so you have two public intellectuals who are having a conversation about cultures and about the what what is different about these Islamic cultures and their desire to impose Sharia law like at least in certain areas so they're having this conversation and it gets labeled as it gets flagged off this guy's account so I find out about this video because this guy has an account and he I don't remember where he posted it maybe Twitter but he said I got flagged on YouTube for having this in my playlist as something that I watch like not even something he hosts on his channel so I asked the lady I said why would someone get flagged for a conversation she was it was hate speech just like that just like that it was hate speech I go can do you remember the conversation because I watched the conversation.
I don't think it was hate speech at all She was definitely hate speech I wait but it's between two public and then my wife just Clamps down on my neck because she sees I'm fucking I'm rabid now like it's two public intellectuals having a conversation about a real thing that's happening in the world And there's no there's no hate speech in that there's no slurs. There's no degrading of people in a Generalization of people there's no racism.
This isn't they're talking about real cultural differences and how they're gonna affect Europe and This fucking lady just to its hate speech the Arrogance of the way she said it to me. She was a big executive.
And then I was like, oh, boy. I was just boiling.
I was boiling. And thank God my wife grabbed my leg.
She fucked her. She grabbed the shit out of my leg because I was ready to go.
Because the lady was going to engage with me. And I was like, oh, this is a podcast.
No, you're fucked. You're fucked.
You're fucked. You're just lucky there's no cameras here.
What you're saying is absolutely crazy. Like, who are you to make that distinction? And do you have any idea how that affects us culturally? When a person like yourself who lives in this fucking San Francisco, this whole bizarre tech cult bubble, that's what you live in.
Yeah, and you you want to impose this crazy Leftist perspective on everyone in the world to the point where you're not even allowing to World-renowned public intellectuals have a public discussion about this in front of an audience Did I I would deal with that all the time where people I would talk about The Middle East I spent most of my adult life in the Middle East. I was in Iraq I was in Jerusalem.
I was all around the Middle East in Africa and I would just say I just don't agree with The way that Saudi Arabia runs right. I don't agree with the the monarchy I don't agree with Islamic Sharia law I don't agree oh you're a fucking racist and you're like what? No, man, I just don't think that it's the best way to go about it, right? Like it's a bunch of different ways to live It's like no, I'm not a racist.
I've lived there. I've been there.
I've spent a ton of time there I think this is better uh and these are the reasons why and people didn't even want to have a conversation with oh you're racist but this is what's crazy you have to be able to have those conversations even if that person's wrong like if someone wants to get on youtube and tell the world why sharia law is better i think they should be able to do that i let them do it and let someone counter it and let them have debates. And Sam Harris has had a bunch of debates like that.
You can watch them online. They're amazing.
Let people figure out who they agree with. And if you just shut down discourse and say that it's hate speech and you're defining hate speech as no slurs.
There's no like we got to kill all these people. There's none of that.
There's no hate in this conversation. You're saying hate speech is disagreeing with a narrative that all leftists must ascribe to, regardless of any objective assessment of the facts.
And you're just sitting down and looking at it and go, you know, I don't think I agree with this aspect of it. Like, I think that, like, telling women that they have to wear a hijab everywhere there's that's you're not giving them the choice you're not giving someone choices just fundamentally bad for the race for humans it's oppression it's anything outside of a meritocracy in the context of being able to evolve a conversation based on the best idea wins and when you're chopping out 50 of your population and saying their beasts of

burden and where they belong is just essentially for deplorables yeah like this is the problem that i have with this and anytime that i've had this conversation around the middle east where like these are the things i don't like about it and i mean there's lots of different things it could be the you know the the the the

arab men will typically wear this very long uh open bottom uh garb right it's it's typically referred to as a man dress my god i hate that thing this thing's stupid like i've had to wear it you know and i did you wear underwear did you wear underwear sometimes you shit your pants i've I've worn a hijab.

We were talking about it.

Did you really?

Yeah.

I had like a tiny little like belt-fed machine gun and i'd have to wear because i'm a small guy right i'm 100 fucking 60 pounds and so i would often be the woman because i could i could be the fucking i got a feminine frame man yeah yeah i got you know birthingthing hips of course but uh you know i could get a little saw with uh which is a squat automatic weapon a little belt-fed machine gun a couple frags underneath a hijab and i could sit in the back seat oh wow it's like surprise bitch i'm not a woman picturing you with a hijab and a belt-fed machine gun under your dress is fucking hilarious it's so it's so much fun man like did you have like a thing where you could pop it up like a like a loki jacket yeah yeah so you'd velcro so we had we had a whole department in the agency where they they would like design costumes and shit for you so you could i had like i had this fake mustache this fake mustache. I got a picture of it.
I'll fucking send it to you. But I had this fake mustache and like they would put Tanner and fake mustache and, and like sunglasses.
I'd like drive around looking like Saddam half the time. Like, like that fucking America world police movie.
Oh yeah. Full on.
And, and it's so funny because you'd have no shit a person putting makeup on you before you go out to do something. You've got a flake mustache.
Or for me, I'm like, just give me the hijab. I already know what I'm doing.
Just give me the fucking, put me in the lady thing. I want to be the fat girl.
Put me in the lady thing. Are we allowed to wear makeup at all all or the Islamic women allow to wear makeup under their hijab or not Yeah, yeah, they can't depending on the on the on where they are Some parts they don't let them do it some parts.
Yeah depending on on how extreme they are But if you went to Kuwait or something like that, they would flash it, you know, it's like a signify It sign're like racy. Ooh, sassy.
A little hussy. Look at these eyelashes.
Yeah. Oh, my God.
I saw her nostrils. I saw her ankles.
This bitch is wild. Isn't it wild, though, that that religion, the absolute most suppressed religion, suppressive religion when it comes to women and gays, are the ones that the progressives are so vehemently defending.
Like, that's the one they defend over all religions. You can be, like, a leftist will accuse you readily and quickly of being Islamophobic.
It's a great thing. It can shut you down.
It's a great pejorative. But no one ever accuses you of being an anti-Christian.
No one. It never comes up.
No one, no one. There's not even a word, right? You can have Islamophobic.
Is there a Christianophobic? I've never heard it. What is a word, like a disparaging word for someone who is prejudiced against Christians? Does it exist? I don't know It probably mean...
It probably doesn't even... It's like honky.
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like a racist term for white people.
Cracker. It doesn't work.
Like a Caucasian cis male. I don't even know what that means.
It says Christianophobia or whatever. Christianophobia? See, that's...
I've never heard anyone utter that. That's too much garbly gook.
You can't say it fast. No, no, no.
Islamophobia is kind of fun yeah Islamophobia flows it sounds

like you're intellectual well is this podcast is filled with Islamophobia first of all let's just yeah discuss this this is really important we need to direct them to feminism but I think that's so funny because when I when I listen to academics you know I'll pull up a YouTube and I'll go down a rabbit hole on a certain thing

and I'll listen to an academic. And then half of them, uh, I shouldn't say half of them, like a good portion of them, they're talking about things they've never actually experienced.
So for me, I've, I've lived in the middle East. Like I've, I've, I've lived in Jerusalem like i've lived and interacted and been in these cultures on a on and seen them in a very vivid way uh and when i say this like tactical and combat experience specifically in these countries it's it's it's very vivid and part of the problem with um you know this differentiation let's go back to it but this differentiation between the decision makers and the people actually implementing the the tactical execution on the ground is that there's a huge disconnect from the reality they don't have the wisdom to understand what it is and what i used to tell people is like i was almost like a zoo keeper where i would usher depending on the person i would usher them through the fucking zoo so they could see what's going on but they would see it from afar and i kept the lions from eating them right and there's this very clear differentiation between the people in charge and most of them shouldn't have been in a combat zone, specifically in the agency.
They should not have been in a combat zone. And when you unpack the agency and you look at, you have paramilitary guys, and they're more than qualified to be there.
And then you have like the cocktail circuit guys. And they're just trying to get their combat tour so they can get promoted to another fucking spot.
But they actually have no business being there. Meaning they need guys like me to keep them alive.
Oh, so they're just like getting in days for the ledger. There's a very famous, infamous case officer from Coast back in the day.
And I was on the ground there. Not in Coast and Kabul at the time.
And she was being groomed to be the assistant director. There's a great book on it called Double Agent, but I was on the ground when it happened.
And she had this asset that she was trying to get in, which is an agency asset that she was trying to get into a basin coast. Once again, this person has no, they should not be here.
They should be in Germany going to a cocktail party, like pretending like they're really cool because they have high intellect, but they have no context to going down to the basis of reality and these are like rules of the jungle like this like this power is the only language they speak like you can't intellect your way out of this thing like is a fucking bullet is a bullet a bat is a bat like it will win over your articulation every time if you want to win a debate and you just put an axe handle through somebody's fucking head, that's how you win.

Right.

That's like it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter.

So like they bring in this asset and she's like, oh, you know, this asset is the guy.

He's going to give us the coordinates to Ben Laden.

We've been working with him for a long time.

He's an amazing guy.

It's his birthday. He wants us to bring him a cake so she bypasses all the security systems bringing in a guy from pakistan so she gets him because he's like i don't want to go

through any security i'm your trusted guy i don't want to go through first i don't want to go through

any security so she tells security stand down she doesn't tell anybody about it

Thank you. any security i'm your trusted guy i don't want to go through first i don't want to go through any security so she tells security stand down she doesn't tell anybody about it she brings this guy in through the gate like blows him through now the security guys mind you are like what the fuck did you just do they're running down to this situation to try to get ahead of it he steps out And he looks like the Michelin tire man fucking clocks off oh god and three of my friends were killed in that suicide bomb she was killed ultimately and but that's a perfect example and I mean there's like multiple different examples of there's a different cadence mindset and capability associated with what I would say is the paramilitary guys versus the case officers the spies there's just totally different guys right and they tried to intermingle because of capabilities and more importantly promotions to try to get people like promoted which is another reason why like some significant things have to change over there and they got guys send people to you just you were supposed to protect these people yeah and it so they could be collection officers on the ground i mean like time after time, time after time, example after example, I had this guy in,

uh,

this town called Lashkagar on the middle of fucking nowhere.

And before we go there,

so let's rewind to Iraq.

I had a,

I had a,

I had a spy that we were working with and they're called case officers in the

agency.

And,

uh,

and,

uh, we go out to pick her up from the airfield and we're like bringing her to where she needs to go and we pick her up and she gets in the car behind she she gets in in the car behind me and she takes out her pistol she points it and i'm in the passenger seat she's's right behind me. She takes out her clock.
She puts a magazine in it, racks the slide right behind my head, like directly into the back of my head. Oh my God.
And I turn around and I'm like, and I'll tell you exactly what I said. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? As I turn around, I'm like, give me that thing.
Like I called her some very rude things, right? So I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? Don't take your pistol out. I go, if both of us are dead, then think about it.
But I'm going to keep this. You just don't have it anymore.
So I gave her back. I actually gave her back the empty pistol.
I like listen if both of us are dead feel free take one of our take one of our guns take both of our guns i don't give a shit because i'm dead but i get back in and the chief of base at the time paul pulls me in it's a fucking super good dude and he's like calls me he's like hey man i heard you had uh quite an exchange with uh somebody and you know we don't really appreciate you know this and you know i might be i might have to send you home and i was like did she tell you what she did he was like no i just thought she got in the car and you told her like you know you fucking dumb whatever and give me your was like, no, she racked her slide into the back of my head.

And he's like,

Oh God,

get out of here.

I'll talk to her.

It's like,

Oh God,

get out of here.

I'll talk to her.

Like, Jesus forgets,

but it's,

it's like,

do they even have to show competency in weapons use?

Yeah,

but it's,

it's,

it,

do they go through the same sort of program? Everybody there's like this jason born type person you know like spies are jason born or something like that it's like it's just not fundamentally correct like any soft guy there any soft guy is so more much more proficient firearms i taught a selection and vetting course for former soft guys that wanted to come into the agency. And I taught it for a couple of years.
And I was one of the main architects behind the selection criteria. And we would have to go out and train spies.
And I would shoot their qualification course with my left hand, like, on two hours of sleep, still half in the fucking bag. Like, it's just so, like, ridiculously ingrained.
Yeah, and more importantly, that's not their job, right? They're collection people, and I'm defending them to a certain degree because they're very high IQ.

Their selection criteria in their course is very difficult. They're not prepared for that.

No, they don't belong in those places.

Like, when you go into a combat zone and when it's a very complex, because there's different areas in combat zones zones and some of them are more dangerous than others you can't have some of those people there it's too dangerous man you got to have collection people that are on the military side that can handle themselves unilaterally and you can't have like your regular hum humdrum spy this isn't jason born they're They're not competent. And more importantly, that's not their thing.
It's the thing of proficient artisans in combat collection in the art of war. And that is a very subset niche profession of guys that are extremely competent and very dangerous.
Why do we want to believe in a Jason Bour born i think it's a love that they love it they love that narrative some super spy double oh seven dude that can fuck everybody up it's fun right yeah oh we we noticed your your uh you're a you're you're a really good boxer in your local gym and you went to yale we're gonna recruit you like get the fuck out of here let. That's so stupid.
He's a judo champion. Yeah, he's a judo champion.
They'd always start the same way. Oh, man.
We noticed you were hitting the bags and you're a political science major in Yale. There's a guy with glasses and a hat on watching you run around the track.
I think we found our man. If they knew the bureaucratic steps that it took to like get into it where it's just like so much paperwork and interviews and it's it's like who is this guy what is it done and well what's wild to me is the spies that infiltrate terrorist organizations like there's there's people that are in the idf that have infiltrated hamas they live with them they're in there they're in there lots isn't that crazy yeah are you so respectable that life oh that life is nuts man worried you're going to be found out and these guys knowing hamas knowing that a certain percentage of these people have to be Israelis well that is so crazy that they do that when you have those guys and we need those guys like I'm not oh yeah like we need those guys must be so exciting the non-official cover the knocks yeah that's that I I mean that there's so much respect well you were explaining that one guy that's a professor? Yeah.
Tell me. So, I mean, there's so much respect.
Well, you were explaining that one guy that's a professor.

Yeah.

Tell me.

So, I mean, out of all the guys, like, I had such a unique ride in history in times, right, where, you know, looking out the window, kind of just being a passenger in history and then being able to talk to some of these guys. and I would sit down and I would always find like the older guy

that's in the

we have like dining halls or the agency has their own separate dining halls and bars and shit like that and i sat down with a guy one day and it was just like hey man what's your story you know and he was telling me he was a he was an anthropology professor at the University of Washington. And he was he was he was finishing his Ph.D.
and he was crossing the McKenzie Traverse in Canada. And he did it in era appropriate clothing and a canoe and the whole fucking thing.
Right. Is it completely insane? Oh, my God.
It's like so insane. And I was like, like oh how'd you get in you know and that's so

he's making his way across he gets to a cabin he's starving he's gonna die he's he's explaining this to me he's he's like i'm going to die i break into this trapper cabin i find a bunch of old like old canned food i gorge i just like engorge myself and now i have the screaming shits and i'm like wiping my ass with this national geographic and i pull out this ad and the agency used to have ads in national geographic and he thought to himself, wow, that's really interesting. I should apply.
So he applied when he got back. Imagine this scenario.
You're fucking starving, then you're eating botulism-filled cans of beans with pork and shit, wiping your ass with the National Geographic. I mean, it's a fucking scene in a movie.
It's insane. That's a scene in a movie.
Right? So he goes back to University of Washington, becomes a professor. The agency, he goes through the entire process.
The agency recruits him. He goes through training.
But still, he has to keep his double life going. So he starts a life as a double life, in fact.
Becomes a professor while he's in the agency. Correct.
Wow. So from the jump, he's got a double life.
It's not like he gets recruited. He's some Nobel Prize winner, and they say, we need you to be for America.
Yeah. Wow.
In his first job, I'll never forget him describing this to me because I didn't know. I didn't know any of this.
So it's part history, part just agency history. And he goes, my first job was I flew to Angola.
And I just had a suitcase full of money. And they dropped me off in the middle of nowhere.
And they're like, go kill Cubans his job jesus christ just a bag of money that was it one straight directive okay and so in defense here that's cool as shit like it's wild they trust that guy here's a bag of money yeah go kill some cubans because you had uh you know it's it's a proxy war right between uh south africa and um that it was the soviets and the cuban by proxy they were both supporting each other they were both supporting the communist revolution in ola so we were pushing back as from the state's perspective we're pushing back

against the um soviet intervention which was driven from the cubans so he had a huge huge cuban intervention which is something most people don't realize and i just thought it was fascinating because it was the first time i heard about it and here's this guy that his job was Here's a bag of money.

Go kill Cubans.

That's your job.

While he's a professor.

Pretty cool.

While he's a bag of money go kill cubans that's your job while he's a pretty cool while he's a professor so he'd be like going so he'd go back to you know whatever university and go okay kids um i know i've been out on a dig you know and i've been building you know atlatls in australia trying this. But really, we was in Angola hunting Cubans.
Holy shit. That's pretty badass.
That's way better than Indiana Jones as far as I'm concerned. Oh, yeah.
That's pretty cool. Writing on the chalkboard and shit.
Thinking about gunning dudes down. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Okay.
Okay. And then plus the five.
Yeah. Who here can answer this? Nobody.
Oh, my God. Nobody can know.
That's so cool. He never tells anybody.
Anybody. No.
And he's still, I mean. So I guess with a guy like that, if you can find a guy who's willing to wear era equivalent clothing, would you say an an era correct clothing, and make his way through a trek that was most likely going to kill people in the 1800s.
You know who did something like that? He didn't do the whole thing, but Rinella, the way I met him was he had a show before Meat Eater. It was called The Wild Within, and I got really addicted to it.

Seriously?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I used to love, way before I ever went hunting, I used to love watching hunting shows.

Yeah.

I used to watch Ted Nugent's Spirit of the Wild.

My wife was always like, what the fuck are you watching?

But I was always obsessed with hunting shows and wilderness shows, people in the wilderness.

Because every time I'm in the woods, I feel like it's a vitamin.

I'm like, oh, I'm getting this vitamin. So I was like, I to like experience more of that in my life so i was watching on tv so there was a show called the wild within and what ronella did was he like i think he used like error correct weapons too i think he used like a musket and he shot a bison and he turned the bison into like uh i think it was a bison, whatever the animal was.
He turned it into a boat. He made a boat out of it and drifted down this river.
He did like all these things that these pioneers did back in the day when they were making their way across the country. That sounds awesome.
It was pretty dope. That's how I got to meet him.
That's how I got him on my podcast before Meat Eater was ever a show. Okay.
Yeah. He was super dismissive of podcasts.
Now he's got one. I feel like there's got one i feel like there's like what am i doing here i'm in this comedy club with this fucking dude who's smoking weed like this is ridiculous i feel like there's a lot of people that probably dismissed it they're like oh what the fuck is joe doing but now he's got a great podcast of his own i love that guy to death no he's awesome he's he's such a smart dude too he knows so many things he's a fascinating guy to talk to because he's super well read and he he can talk to you about all kinds of shit that you would not expect from a guy who's a professional hunter no you know he talks like a phd it's very but also like a hunter very unusual dude and like one of the very best guys to explain hunting like i saw a debate that he had it was like a i think it was a book that he had released and he was doing one of those talks they do at bookstores and this guy was a vegan and the guy in the audience was a vegan the guy got upset with him and the ranella handled it so perfectly they're just the way he communicated with the guy and explaining his perspective and you have a different perspective and i'd love to have a conversation with you he didn't do it with any little bullshit ted nugent's like ah you pussy grow another vagina but but ranel is like the the perfect answer to people that objectively they look at it they go wait a minute i do eat meat like i am a hypocrite i am hiring a supermarket hitman like why am i upset at this man who not only hunts his meat but at it.
They go, wait a minute. I do eat meat.
Like, I am a hypocrite. I am hiring a supermarket hitman.

Like, why am I upset at this man who not only hunts his meat but cooks it and writes cookbooks and cooks it on television? And, like, this is the same thing. Like, what are we doing here? This is so stupid.
You know? And then you've got the people that really believe that you shouldn't eat anything but plants. And my problem with that is I think plants are smart.
I think they just move real slow. And I think they have a way of interacting that is noticeable and measurable.
I think there's probably a consciousness to plants. I think life eats life.
And I think that's the only way it survives. And I think that's just the way it goes.
That is just the way it goes. And you can choose to just eat plants, but I don't think you're going to be as healthy.

I think it's too hard. I think people can kind of survive on vegan diets and do well on vegan diets.
There's athletes that are on vegan diets. I don't think they hit peak performance and thrive.
I think that's all people who are consuming nutrient-dense meats, meats and fish and eggs. Those are the people that when you you look at athletes the predominant the the best athletes in every sport are all consuming protein they're all consuming animal protein there's so few that are vegans that that hit elite status and maintain a lot of them get injured when they switch to vegan too there's just so much in there's collagen and b12 and fucking there's so many different aspects to different amino acids you can have this ethical thing in your head and i get that ethical thing like i don't want to see a thing suffer i think plants suffer you just don't feel it right i really do i think there's a communication with them that's probably similar but different to the way we feel about animals getting killed by other animals.
I think it's just a part of this whole process. I mean, they've shown that you can take the recordings of beetles eating leaves and play recordings of beetles eating leaves near a tree.
And the tree will experience distress to the point where it changes the profile,

the flavor profile of the leaves. It releases chemicals, these phytochemicals into the leaves that makes it disgusting for the bugs.

And they do it with giraffes.

Like when giraffes eat, I think it's acacia trees.

When giraffes eat acacia trees The trees downwind all become disgusting to the point where the drafts will starve because they won't eat it They change their flavor profile to protect themselves. They release some sort of chemical and makes them inedible Well, I think that's so interesting I because you can see it with who's that Paul Stamets has.
Yes.

When the fungi is talking and communicating and the health benefits to fungi and different plants. It's like, I think any time you have this edict where no meat, no plants no plants no i think that's just another version of religious extremism where yeah if you were just to say what makes sense what's it morally what am i going to have to coalesce in from me i i don't want to be a hypocrite.
So I hunt.

Like that's the way it is.

And we eat a ton of wild meat.

I'm not a hypocrite. We eat meat.
I love fish. I love fruits and vegetables.
But I think if you're making this determination where there's no meat, this is the only thing I'm going to eat. Well, one, man, that's a lot of time and effort and energy that you're spending specifically

on your diet constraints that could be allocated to being a better dad maybe they could do all those things too maybe I don't know I think their philosophical point is a good one I think their their the morals, their perspective is that I want to live a life with the least suffering possible. I think that's noble.
I really do. I think the problem is life eats life.
And I think that's the real problem. And I think the problem is if you're buying just vegetables in the store, boy, you need to take a good look at monocrop agriculture because it's fucking bananas.
Yeah. You know, there was a Taylor Sheridan in Yellowstone.
There was a scene where Kevin Costner was talking to the hippie lady who's trying to like shut down ranches and shit. I forget what her thing was.
But he was explaining how if you're on a vegan diet, you want to kill the most things, become a you don't understand like if one life is one life okay if the life of a gopher and the life of an elk are the same thing and why wouldn't they be right you have no idea how many things have to fucking die to make monocrop agriculture it's it's a bloodbath they kill everything they kill groundhog groundhogs, ground squirrels, you fucking name it, ground nesting birds, fawns. Everything gets gobbled up by combines.
It's an enormous industrial operation. It's not natural.
So now you're limited to organic plants, okay? So if you're growing all of your own food and you're growing a lot of soybeans, a lot of different things, like if you grow hemp, if you're in a place where you can grow it legally, hemp is actually a really good source of protein. It's actually got a really complete amino acid profile.
You can survive. You can do it that way.
But if you're a regular vegan, if it's a person like, I get vegan pizza at the supermarket, shut the fuck up. You're contributing to this mass slaughter of small animals.
You're just not aware of it. Have you have you watched that Netflix DocuSeries on it's basically vegan propaganda.
I forget what it's name is it the game changers? That's probably yeah. Did you watch that? Yeah, I know the guy did it.
I had him on. Wow.

I thought it was fascinating, like, from a wide variety of reasons.

But more importantly, so I went and got some vegan cheese.

And he was, like, tried it.

I was, like, okay, it's not bad. But, I mean, dude, it's a laundry list of ingredients associated with making this, which seems pretty insane to me versus What's the ingredient on a good cheese? Milk Right It's so dumb This thing's like a like a dissertation of ingredients And it's so processed Yeah That is literally what it is If you want to be I said that a million times a vegetarian, eat Indian food.
They make delicious, delicious vegetarian food. You don't have to eat fucking vegan cheese.
Stop pretending. Stop lying.
Stop eating tofutti or whatever the fuck that shit is. Get out of here.
Get out of it. Get the fuck out of here.
That's nonsense. What are you eating? And also eat mollusks.
People should look into that. Those things are so primitive.
They're way more primitive than plants We just have a problem with them moving. That's all it is if people like they don't even have nerves They don't feel pain right there's fucking the simplest of organisms yet.
They're protein is like animal protein It's really good for you. Do you eat oysters? Oh, yeah Yeah, eat the fuck out of oysters.
And every now and then I hear about some dude dying.

Yeah, I eat escargot.

Oh, yeah.

But every now and then I hear about a dude dying from oysters. So we were in Normandy.
This is a super funny story. So I went out to the 80th anniversary for the Normandy invasion, took a bunch of dudes out there.
And my kids and I are out on this beach. and I'm taking my pocket knife out

and I'm just chopping the oysters off the rocks

and eating oysters straight out of the ocean. Oh, wow.
And my girls are running away from me. Like, this is the grossest shit I've ever seen.
And then pretty soon they got into it. So then they're trying to find me the oysters to bring them back and show me where they are.
My wife was like, you're going to fucking die. You're going to poison yourself.
You're eating these right out of Normandy. It's one of the beaches out there.
All the munitions are in the water. I don't give a shit.
And then I had to, when I'm eating them, and then I quickly searched, hey, are there any toxins? After I've eaten like three. Are there any toxins in the oysters in Normandy? Thank God it was like, you know, 99.9%.
I live on the edge here. Yeah.
When I lived in San Francisco, you could collect mussels. There was like mussels that were on the rocks.
But then I think I brought them home once, but then I found out that there's like a couple months out of the year that they're poison. You get like red tide, right? Yeah.
So I was like, like I dodged a bullet, but I was like, what's that bullet? Because you could just go find muscles and pluck them off of things. Let me ask you this.
Like, so if you were to move back to California, okay, but to take Texas politics with you. That's not really possible.
But if it were. If it was.
I'm taking you on an imaginary journey. Would I move? Yeah, yeah.
No. No.
I like it here. You like the weather? I like everything.
I like the size of it. I like the way people behave.
People are super friendly. I like the scene here.
The restaurant scene's amazing. The comedy scene's amazing.
Live music. A bunch of cool people now.
So many of my friends moved here. I love it here.
I just love the vibe. I love that it's, you know, I love that we're not connected to the hollywood machine there's like a pull of deals and shows and things that you get roped into doing because you think about the money they'll pay you right and then you wind up like becoming one of those people like you have to say what they say you have to be if you you're not politically aligned with them, you're going to lose gigs.
You change your behavior. I see it with so many comics.
They're really good comics coming up. They're like, wow, this guy's going to be good.
He's really good. He's getting better all the time.
And then they get a fucking show. They get a show and then they tone everything down and everything gets softer and everything you know you start seeing some like bullshit jokes in there like oh you decided to cover this joke cover this subject just for like just for like street cred progressive street cred like you see it happen you're like ah you got called into the rocks the sirens they called you into the rocks that's what it is man They call you into the rocks you stop you stop being you You stop being you because they dangle that carrot in front of your face and there's no carrot out here The carrot is just podcasts and other comics, right? So that's way better.
There's no control There's no manipulation. There's no someone's dangling this over you.
you have to agree with what i agree with no one cares at all about any of that stuff here like it's it's freedom and like we were talking about it the other i think it was today right where it's like you know another comic was like oh can you believe they're a democrat like no it's weird like or whatever

right you know yeah but it's it's fine in the context of i think being a conservative because i don't necessarily say like i'm a republican i'm like i just believe in less government like i don't like bureaucrats at all i have a high degree of skepticism on anything that they say and i typically will question anything an elected official will say. So for me, I'm like, I don't care if the guy next to me is going to vote for, you know, whatever alternate politician.
I care about, like, what are their ideas? Why do they think a certain way? What are they doing what kind of a human are they and what is the character of the individual what am i going to disagree with them yeah but who the fuck cares like it's kind of fun like it's kind of fun to disagree with people and debate them and have a different opinion versus being in an echo chamber where people all agree and they're all kind of lockstep in their belief system. It's kind of fun to have some wingnut talking about socialism half the time.
You're like, what the fuck are you talking about? You believe in that? It's like some Orwellian nightmare, man. And if you could have a conversation with someone where you're friendly with each other and completely disagree, it's a beautiful dance.
It's a fun dance to talk to people that have just completely different perspectives But you're not rude to them. No, you just ask him.
Well, why do you think that? Well, did you ever consider this and you have conversations like to normal to people just having a conversation? Okay All right. So that's what you think, huh? What was your childhood like? Get it.
She's like, what are we dealing with here? Like why do you have this perspective? You know, and you have to be able to talk to each other. And there's a bunch of people that we hang out with that have totally different opinions on all kinds of things.
Like, my friend Josh, who was here the other day, love him to death. He told me he voted for Jill Stein.
Said he voted for Jill Stein just like a protest vote. Wow.
I think the two-party system is stupid. I'm like, yeah, okay, right.
Yeah, I get it. Look, I voted for two libertarian candidates in a row.
So I voted for Gary Johnson, and then I voted for Joe Jorgensen. Why? Because I was like, this whole thing's gross.
But that's like California. I knew it was going to be blue anyway.
California is always blue. It was like a legitimate protest vote.
And I I guess he was in Florida So that's a legitimate protest vote if you want It's gonna go red anyway whether you like it or not gonna go red. Yeah, Florida goes red hard When they saw Miami go red they're like oh boy.
Yeah, oh boy. And one of the things that they were saying, the whole what goes red and what goes...

If you look at the country, California is way more red now than it's ever been in the

last four years.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, it was a big difference.

If you look at, there's a map of California, how it voted from 2020 to 2024.

It's a giant swing.

It's like the red's going like this. See if can find it it's very interesting um and that's not because people have been radicalized that's because the left has gone fucking cuckoo you guys have gone crazy and you're authoritarians you want everybody to behave and believe and think and talk the way you do or else.
Look at that. Look at the difference.
Holy shit. Holy shit, dude.
That is wild. Yeah, it's most of California by landmass.
By far. It's probably 70% by landmass or 60%.
What is that blue up there on the east side? What is that close to? That's probably where they grow the weed, son. Oh, yeah.
What is that? Where are you guys? You guys got to be like Tahoe. What is that one? It's got to be like Truckee or something.
You got to shut off that blocker. These fuckers.
Here it goes. Oh, these fuckers.
Oh, you have to get a signal. Go to the other, just the image.
Just the, just the image See, I've thought about this because I always tell people California is my favorite climate In the nation, period Yeah, that's it So, what's the one in the upper Well, it's not The one that's blue Yeah, I guarantee you that's where they grow the weed. Yeah.
They want to keep everything nice and quiet up there. Shut the fuck up.
Shut the fuck up. Everybody shut the fuck up.
Hey, man, we don't want these guys to criminalize weed again. That's what they're fucking talking about.
Where's Humble, Jamie? Where's Humble? It's up north. It's up here somewhere.
Up there. That's where they grow all the best weed.
That's where they have problems with the cartel, too. Cartel grows weed up there, too.
The cartel grows weed in California? Oh, yeah. That's what I wanted to ask you was about the cartel.
Do you think that they're really going to— That one was Humboldt, the one you guys were asking. It was Humboldt! Oh, shit.
Okay. There we go.
You're right. Yeah, they grow all the weed, son.
Yep. There you go.
Yeah, there's a dude named John Norris who's been on the podcast. He wrote a book called Hidden Wars, and he was a game warden.
So he's just thinking he's going to go around checking fishing licenses and shit like that. And then one day they find a creek that's been diverted.
So they have to follow the creek. They thought maybe a farmer had, like, dammed the creek somewhere and done something to get water illegally.
He goes up there and he finds these PVC pipes and it reads this giant grow-op and it's all cartel guys. And so this guy's job changes from being a game warder, let me check your fishing line, to running a fucking tactical unit.
They had attack dogs. They had attack dogs.
They had fucking shootouts with the cartel in the woods over weed. Because here's what california made weed legal in the state but made growing it a misdemeanor if you grow it illegally okay so if you are a person who's doing it legally you can grow it and you can sell it if you have a license you can open up a shop and you can sell it they tax the shit out of it's great for everybody but the problem is you made growing it illegally a misdemeanor so then the cartel just starts growing it everywhere in the national forests because even if the guys get arrested nothing happens it's a misdemeanor so it's not so they're using these crazy toxic poison pesticides all this shit that's totally illegal to use on regular crops in america and 90% of the illegal weed that's being bought around the country is coming from them.
Holy shit. I didn't know that.
And they're doing it all in National Forest and they're doing most of it in California. Dude, they find these grow up.
My friend found one. You know him, Cody.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He found a fucking grow up on Tohono Ranch.
Really? Yes. Oh my gosh, that's right.
Yes, he found a cartel grow up on Tohono Ranch where this guy carried in pipes on his shoulder deep into the woods, diverted a stream, and then there was this whole field of weed that these guys had planted out there. They were camping out there.

They had little religious symbols and shit

they kept by their bed to protect them,

like the Virgin Mary and shit.

What do you think, I've heard this,

this is what I want to talk to you about

because it pertains to the cartel.

It's like, what do you think about releasing

SEAL Team 6 and Delta Force on the cartels?

What do you think that looks like?

Well, I think you've solved one problem.

Okay. What's the problem? You no longer have distribution, but you still have a demand.
You still have a demand. Yeah.
The real problem is there's always going to be a demand. The real problem, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that idea, by the way.
Okay. I like that idea.
Yeah. But the problem with that idea is you're always going to have a demand.
And if you're going to have a demand, someone's going to fulfill that demand. And who the fuck is that going to be? How are they going to get the Coke in? You're not going to just not have Coke.
So here's the question. By having prohibition of alcohol in the United States, it's widely agreed that that led to the rise of the mafia.
Right. Bootleggers, the mafia, criminal organizations that were organized crime that went on to do a bunch of other horrible things Right inside our country and they were built up with money because alcohol was illegal The moment alcohol stopped being illegal you still have these people with all this money now You fucked up now.
They're organized gangsters now, you know, okay alcohol is legal now So they're just gonna sell it legally right and they have millions and millions of dollars from a life of crime you've already done that with the cartel you gotta do just gotta you gotta do something you gotta do something and you probably also should legalize drugs i don't think you should take drugs i think coke is probably terrible for almost everybody i think meth is probably terrible do people still do cocaine absolutely really like it's really a thing still do it the people who do it. The growing Chinese investment in illegal American weed.
Of course. Why wouldn't they get in on it? Check out this number that it says here.
Of the 800 farms, the OBS is in Oklahoma. The Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics has shut down in the last two years.
75% were linked to China. Oh, my God.
China's are growing weed here. They're growing weed here.
Oh my God. I was thinking about that.
Wizards. I was thinking about this from the thought exercise where I'm like, because I, you know, I, I know these units.
I'm intimately familiar with them. Uh-huh.
Bro. If we declare war on the cartel, like these, these dudes are not going to understand what the fuck is going on no of course they are they are going to be because god you'll stop the distribution guys that's going to be yeah they are in for a world of like ultra violence they've never actually felt before because you know obviously this is a very capable ultra violent organization they have fucking no clue if we organize these tier one units against them this is going to be what i would be doing if i was down there like i know all those shoe boxes in my fucking you know my walls that i'm gonna have to collect up i'd be getting ready to retire right That's what I would be doing.
Because if Delta Force is hunting me, bro, I would be so terrified. Is that a real thing that they've proposed doing? Yes.
That is a real thing. Who proposed that? I'm almost positive either JD or Trump had said something with the new guy from ICE, like we're going to mobilize tier one units against the cartel.
I, the only thing I thought was like, retire. If you guys, you guys got some money, man, I would like put that away, you know, like maybe move Jamaica somewhere.
Yeah. Buy a restaurant.
Like try to go legit because dude, if those guys are hunting you, yeah but by the way like you're done you're fucking done

And it's a weird thing that that's going on right at our border so strange thing because it's so close to us

And it's so ultra violent and dangerous and it's just completely shaped the way the entire economy of the country works

You know they there they have so much power and control and it's a criminal organization that is entirely almost entirely at least funded by us by our desire Trump declares war on cartels president-elect said notorious crime syndicates and drug king kingpins will never sleep soundly again once he launches his plans to tackle the issue you. I thought about this for a long time where I'm like, if they if they turned loose

Delta Force and SEAL Team 6

on Cartoon as his plans to tackle the issue. I've thought about this for a long time where I'm like, if they turned loose Delta Force and SEAL Team 6 on cartels and pedophiles, we could just kind of like erase the problem in about two years.
It'd be gone. He wants to send troops to Mexico.
He said we'd make appropriate use of special forces, cyber warfare, and other overt and covert actions to inflict maximum damage on cartel leadership, infrastructure, and operations.

Oh, Jesus.

Bro, it is going to get wild come January 20th.

It's going to get wild, man.

It is going to get wild.

Very interesting.

But the thing is, like, people, inaction is action as well when it comes to this.

Like, you're going to continue to prop them up.

They're going to get more and more power and more and more money. And we got to figure out why everybody wants Coke.
What the fuck is it? You think it's Coke? I think that's the big one. I'm pretty sure it's the big one.
I'm sure a lot of it is pills. They have fake pills.
Like they sell like street pills, street – you know, different like anti-anxiety medications, Molly. There's a lot of stuff they sell that's also laced up with fentanyl, which is responsible for, you know, who knows how many tens of thousands of young people die.

It's like 200,000 people is what they're saying, is that fentanyl is responsible for that.

Crazy high.

Crazy high.

It's insane.

It's a horrific thing.

And it's gotten to the point where people are scared to try any kind of drugs.

They're thinking fentanyl.

They found fentanyl in weed. What? Yes.
They found fentanyl-laced weed. Yeah.
People are dumb as shit, man. You don't think they'll try putting fentanyl in weed? People are dumb as shit.
They'll try all kinds of things. People are retarded.
I know people that have mixed MAO inhibitors and mushrooms and acid all together. What are what are you doing? Are you trying to go to space? Like, what are you doing, man? Jesus Christ.
You're just experimenting in your brain. What was an MAO inhibitor? What did you just say? An MAO inhibitor, monoamine oxidase inhibitor.
It's the ingredient in ayahuasca that makes DMT orally active. Monoamine oxidase breaks down DMT in the gut.
That's why when you eat, like, if you eat a salad, that's why you don't trip balls. Got it.
Okay. Because otherwise, like, most plants, some crazy number of plants have DMT in it.
So... Like, how many plants have DMT in it? I think it's like a thousand or something nutty like that.
When you think about the legalization of psilocybin. Yeah.
So Texas, and this is what I know about Texas because they're leading, I think, a lot of research specifically related to vets. Apparently, the former governor, Rick Scott, is really into this.
Rick Perry. Rick Perry, excuse me.
Rick Perry, because of his relationship with Marcus, Luttrell, and some of the other guys in the community, he has been leading the charge on this. Do you think that from psilocybin being legal in the United States, do you think it would be an issue? Do you think it would be an issue at all? I don't know.
Because you're going to get people trying it that wouldn't try it before. You're going to get people that use it irresponsibly.
Just like you get people that drink irresponsibly. I think that's the situation that we find ourselves in if we're going to give people personal freedom.
They're going to make bad decisions. You know, you can buy a Corvette, right? You can go to the Chevrolet dealership, buy a Corvette right off the lot that goes 0 to 60 in 4 seconds.
And you're flying around corners. You could be a fucking maniac and kill people in a Corvette or you could just enjoy it on the highway and be responsible and say, wow, what a great car.
This thing's awesome. I love it.
And you don't cause any problems for anybody. Both things are possible.
That's what's going to happen if we make drugs legal. You're going to have people try those drugs that probably shouldn't be be trying those drugs you're going to have people get addicted to those drugs that maybe wouldn't have gotten addicted if if those drugs weren't available to them especially if they weren't legal if you could just buy it somewhere but if you don't rip the fucking band-aid off of this like infantilization of society and let people know that there are things out there that They're telling you you can't do and the people who telling you you can't do them haven't even experienced them and when it comes to things like psilocybin and And psychedelics like if you haven't experienced them, you really shouldn't be talking about them You have no idea what you're talking about.
You just you ha you can't possibly know You can't know and if you do if you have experienced them then you're probably going to agree with me you're probably going to agree that there's some like some serious benefits to it 50 yeah i thought it was a lot more than that at least 50 i'd read something that was like in the hundreds i can't find a a solid number. I mean, it's in a lot of stuff.

So the point is, like I know Phalaris grass is like really rich with DMT.

And that's also the acacia tree.

That's what when they connected.

There's like a university in Jerusalem that connected this idea of Moses and the burning bush to a DMT tree. Oh, right.

Because the acacia tree is like rich in DMT and the idea of burning it.

You see God and God gives you this message and tells you what to do and what the rules of behavior are. I think anybody telling you that these things should get you locked up has clearly never experienced them.
No, they never have. Like I spent all of my life with a top secret security clearance.
Like most of my life,

like from my twenties to like my forties.

Right.

And my personal experience with them,

this is before,

you know,

before I went public,

but my personal experience with them was my,

you know,

my,

my problems were rep after rep, cycle after cycle of combat after like relatively high stress scenario after scenario after scenario. And I was having a really, really hard time trying to directly connect with love.
I actually could not connect with that experience. It was really difficult.
And my wife and I were going, we were going through this, this ongoing debate and dialogue with it. And she's like, you need to try it.
And we tried it. It fast forward probably 20 years of talk therapy for me personally.

And it gave me this direct connection with this feeling that I hadn't felt for years.

And this is the feeling, and this is my point with vets and especially from the combat vets.

The guys have got rep after rep after rep with overpressure and explosions and a lot of violence, is that they lose context with this really important feeling that you have to have, which is you have to have direct love for your family, for your spouse, for yourself. And if you've killed that by all of the things that you've done, you've built a scaffolding, this artificial scaffolding on top of this, it creates a callus.
And you got to be able to break through that. From a psychological perspective, an emotional perspective, it accelerates that back and you can kind of reset.
You really can. I can't imagine.
I was thinking about this. My dad's like 80 years old, right? I'm like, man, he's got lung cancer now.
I'm like, gosh, if he could coalesce around killing ego and past and try to understand himself from a different, more introspective way, this would take decades maybe of talk therapy or a session where you could really accelerate your growth as an individual i think that's what for for g watt vets and for vets in general i mean i think that's what they're they're missing this key component is being able to retouch with their emotional strength and be able to balance these things out where you can evolve and live your life do Do you think, you've said it before, I don't know if you said it on a show, but do you think society would benefit from it? I think a lot of people would benefit from it. But I think a lot of people wouldn't.
I don't think people with real psychological disorders should be doing it. Right.
You know, I think people that are really fucked up and having a hard time with schizophrenics, people, you know, I don't think people with real psychological disorders should be doing it right you know I think people that are really fucked up and having a hard time with schizophrenics people you know I don't know I think it's probably dangerous for you I think it's probably a bit of a stress test for your psyche you know you hear about these stories like the guy from Pink Floyd that dropped acid and freaked out never came back there's those stories like we hear those stories of guys go out there and kind of, you lose them. I've kind of seen it with some people.
I've seen one kid who was just like smoking a ton of weed and just lost his mind and became schizophrenic. And you don't know, like, did he have a tendency towards schizophrenia already? Did he fall prey? Was it just his unique biochemistry and how he interacted with weed? Was it just inveterate weed? I mean, he was every day smoking weed constantly.
What is it? Like what caused him to crack? You know, I don't know. I don't know.
But I don't have that problem. And I think it's very beneficial.
And I don't like when people tell me that because someone has a problem with something that I shouldn't do it. I don't agree with that.
I think you should be allowed to take chances as a person. I think if you want to do BMX jumps and fucking do flips on your bike, you should be allowed to do it.
You want to do jujitsu and have grown men try to kill you? Go ahead. Go do it.
Do whatever the fuck you want to do. I don't think anybody should be able to tell you what you can and can't do.
But why does that change when you talk about substances that someone puts in their body? Well, because those people could do those and then they could commit crimes. But those are already crimes.
Like, you already go to jail for those crimes. So, like, if you do something violent because you're on a drug, you're going to jail because you did something violent.
Like, there's a crime. You committed that crime.
You go to jail. So, like, we already have laws that address all the problems.
and you're assuming that more problems would occur

We don't know that we don't know that we don't know that more people won't chill the fuck out It would have a dramatic decrease in violence across the country imagine that Imagine you have a few people that lose their fucking mind, but you have a dramatic increase in consciousness Through the entire country where people develop like a mushroom culture and people start like micro dosing all the time and people get way more comfortable with talking to each other way more creative way more like community oriented and love oriented that's not a bad thing that's that's a real possibility with something that exists right now there's a happy pill pill. It's out there and it's illegal.
And it's God made it. God made it.
And it's probably the source of most religious experiences. There's probably some sort of a connection to a lot of those religious experiences and what was probably some sort of a psychedelic adventure that they went on.
And who's to say that that's not even how you talk to God in the first place? We don't know because it's been held back from us. It's been kept from us like we're a bunch of babies.
It's something that human beings have used for thousands and thousands of years. The Greeks used psychedelics to start democracy.
And yet here we are in the greatest democracy the world's ever known in 2024 with full access to the internet, all the data that's available, all the anecdotal stories, and it'll get you locked in a fucking cage. That's nuts.
That's really crazy. It's completely insane.
That doesn't make no sense. I've tried to look at it from all different ways.
I do agree with you when people, and when people say, if you make cocaine legal, people are going to die. Unfortunately, I agree with you.
But if you don't make cocaine legal, people are also going to die. I don't know which one is more.
And I don't know if it was just real cocaine versus cocaine mixed with a bunch of other horrible shit. If like the real cocaine wouldn't kill as many people.

I don't know how many people are dying just of cocaine and how many people are dying of fentanyl-laced cocaine. I bet it's way more fentanyl-laced cocaine.
So if you have just pure cocaine and the same amount of users, you're going to get way less deaths. So that's a net positive.
Then you take taxes from that sale of that legal cocaine and you use it to sell rehabilitation read a rehabilitation centers We give them Ibogaine give people the ability to break addictions. It's possible people do it They go to Mexico kick opioids people do it all the time my friend.
I did it That's how he got into it He started his own clinic because he went down there because he had a pill problem You get an injury you're doing jujitsu. You're always fucking hurt.
These guys get a disc problem. Their arms all fucked up.
They take a little pill. You feel better.
But then you need three pills. Then you need four.
Now you're fucked. And now there's nothing to help you other than Ibogaine.
And that's illegal. So you make that legal too.
So with those two together, who knows? You might have way less deaths. And then you would have taxes that you could take from that stuff and use for all sorts of things.
It would be horrible for taxes from cocaine sales to fix the schools. But what if that's what did it? What if that's what did it? And what if the exact same amount of people buying cocaine are still buying cocaine? What if that is the fix? And what if responsible use of drugs, all kinds of drugs, sure, don't drive a car when you're coked up, don't take heroin and fly your plane.
No, responsible use, just like responsible use of alcohol. Why is that so crazy for us? Why is that so alien? Because we've been turned into babies.
We've been turned into babies where you're allowed to take pharmaceutical drugs that make you high as fuck whether it's high as fuck on adderall or high as fuck on opiate that's fine but you can't go out and get yourself some mushrooms that's just crazy and for these people that are the ones in charge that are making all the money from these decisions to keep up with this insanity in the Internet in 2024 in this tide of change, I feel the same way about them as you feel about those poor cartel members.

Like, you probably should be doing something else.

What is this?

What weed and fentanyl?

Short answer is they're false. There's no solid evidence that marijuana is being laced with fentanyl.
Here's some of the reasons why. Didn't someone get caught with it, though? At the bottom it says that there's been a few publicly stated media stories that have said that's what the case was.
I think we were talking about one. They said there was weed that was laced with fentanyl that someone got arrested for.
This is lab test claims that they were errors, and then the corrections don't make the headlines. How do you get an error? How much fentanyl is out there that is an error? Oh, it was just contamination.
It wasn't the weed that had fentanyl. Fentanyl's all over the place.
It could have just been a field test. They could have just been like, does this have fentanyl on it?

They rub the weed, and the weed comes back like, yep, someone touched fentanyl, and they

touched the weed, and now you've got fentanyl-laced weed.

Wow.

It could be that easy.

That actually does make sense, right?

Because if you think of some cracked out dude working in the weed fields for the cartel,

he's probably going to be doing fentanyl.

Yeah, he's going to be doing fentanyl.

He's going to be all on everything, basically.

So it's going to pop positive on everything, basically. So it's going to pop

positive on everything.

He's on a tent

in the fucking woods

with a little

Virgin Mary statue.

Like, for real.

I know.

It's like candles.

Bro, having shootouts

with the fucking

cops.

It's so crazy

that that's going on

and that there's

hundreds of them

and that the Chinese

are running them.

Like, this is the most

insane part where it's like everybody knows what's going on. It's like all these chemicals are coming from China.
They're being offloaded into Mexico and South America. They're being, like, produced and then they're pushed across the border.
Everybody knows. Do you ever talk to Mike Baker about any of this stuff? No.
I've never actually talked to Mike Baker. Do you know him? You never met him? I've never met him.
oh my god I bring it I got to bring you two guys together he's I love that dude but what he one of the things he was telling me was about the Chinese cell cell phone towers like cheaper right they're like you just buy ours and they put them all around military bases we promise we're not gonna listen to you guys, the Chinese said they're not gonna listen to us

I mean, that's good enough for me. They're around this nuclear weapons facility.
Of course They're all over the place and then they buy land like dr. Phil was highlighting that they buy land right next to military bases like How fucking silly are we this is so we're so silly like someone's moving our chess pieces around like oh, this isn't happening this isn't even happening people don't think like that there's no way they'd be

buying up all the weed. There's no way they'd be buying up all the farmland right next to the military.
There's no way they would be exporting chemicals so they could manufacture fentanyl to come in and basically eviscerate 200,000 fucking people. There's no way they would do that.
There's no way. That's crazy to even think.
Meanwhile, the only way you get those chemicals is from China. The only way you get them is from China.
They send them to Mexico. They cook it up.
They send it our way. But no, there's no way the Chinese are thinking that maliciously.
There's no way. There's no way.
Well, aren't they still mad at us for the opium wars? I think the Chinese are not necessarily mad at us. They're just thinking about themselves from a hundred year vision.
And they're saying, okay, where do we, where and how do we ascend to being able to take place, take America's place as the international superpower.

Right.

So I don't know if they necessarily have an opinion-based axe to grind. It's more about how do we put the pieces together to take the pole position away from the United States.
I'm sure that's their primary goal. But I do remember reading something where they were talking about, was it British? There were was people that introduced opium to the chinese like on purpose it was like a campaign the first opium war 1800s okay uh britain the war was triggered by china's efforts to enforce its ban on opium the british responded by sending a naval expedition to force china to pay reparations and allow the opium trade Yeah

So

The British wanted to keep that fucking dope flowing

Isn't that wild?

They went to war to keep the dope flowing

This is what people have to recognize about Afghanistan too

Yeah

This is something that it sounds so conspiracy theory that no one even wants to touch it

But the troops had to guard the poppy fields

Let's go. too.
Yeah. This is something that it sounds so conspiracy theory that no one even wants to touch it, but the troops had to guard the poppy fields.
Afghanistan heroin went way up when we went in there, went way, way up. Their production went way up.
They were supplying at one point in time. What was the number, Jamie? What percentage? Was that what it was? 70% of the world's heroin was coming out of a place that we had occupied.
Well, and the other issue is that the Taliban was using the opium essentially to fund their growth in their militia. So the DEA was out there.
So you had the DEA out in Afghanistan doing direct action ops and you had soft guys that were going out, walking through poppy fields and marijuana fields and all these other things. Then you'd pass it off to the DEA.
90%. Oh, 95.
Yeah. In 2021, 90%.
90%. Holy shit.
Holy shit. You destabilize the entire country you deter everyone from actually focusing on the opium you focus on terrorism in the taliban and then you allow it to flourish and the the dirty secret nobody wants to talk about from from that from that perspective is is that we as a country have dealt with a lot of shady opium dealers like drug lords that were essentially exporting opium and if they weren't part of the taliban and or if they were anti-taliban you do business with them it's the same story yeah it's what's your triage of priorities so you know how oh hey we we need to get you know we need to fund our army in South America so hey how do we do that let's import some coca let's invent a market because we gotta get you know we gotta push back against the commies in Nicaragua it's the same story do you know, I've had Freeway Ricky Ross on like three times.
Oh, seriously? I had him on recently. I had him on recently.
Yeah. And he was the guy.
He was the guy who was making millions, millions and millions and millions of dollars. He couldn't read.
He was making millions of dollars selling coke for the fucking government. Myanmar overtakes Afghanistan and the world's top opium producer.
Violent political turmoil in Myanmar in years since 2021 coup has contributed to a production increase. Wow.
So they took over. That quick? What's that? Check this out.
Meth is cheaper than beer there. Whoa.
There's a lot of drugs going on there. Whoa.
25 cents each? That's all? Imagine for a quarter you could do meth? The golden triangle. Imagine doing meth.
Imagine doing that quarter meth. For a quarter.
What kind of judgment do you have? You pop that 25 cent meth and fucking chug it down with a Budweiser. What are you doing, man? What kind of life are you living? This guy said he took 10 pills his first time.
Oh, boy. 10 pills? How did it work out? I took 10 pills and I was totally lost.
Didn't recognize my family. Didn't recognize my children.
Son, couldn't sleep at all. I didn't drink.
I didn't eat. I felt powerful.
The last one's so perfect. I felt powerful.
Yeah, look, I don't think that should be legal, but, well, here, I don't think you should do it, but I think it should be legal. I think if it's not legal, the cartel sells it.
You just have to figure out what to do with the money that you're going to make from it, because that's devil money. Like, you're selling meth money.
Like, that's devil money. You're ruining people's lives.
So there's going to be a bunch like slippery people that are kind of, kind of hanging on, but doing their best. And you're going to meth them down the road to oblivion.
That's true. That's true.
That's true. But that's not going to happen to me.
I'm not going to get methed out. I'm not going to try it.
I haven't even tried Adderall. I'm scared of it.
So some people are going to figure it out, just like most things in life, just like drinking, just like doing jujitsu just like riding a bmx bike some people are going to get hurt so we have to decide what's more valuable to you nerfing the whole fucking world or people figure out what's best for everybody and the only way to do that is to give people freedom that's it it's the only works You'd be figure out what works what doesn't work by successes and failures and we all adjust along the way But you got to give people freedom Freedom and information those are two very important things when you're suppressing either one of them You can't be the good guy. No, no, you're not the good bot.
You're not the good guy freedom has has to be sacred across the board, which freedom comes with accountability, which means responsibility.

And that's the problem is that when freedom, I think when you can distill it down and you can create control, then you can create profit.

So power, control, and profit, those things like they directly have this confluence where people in power obviously manipulate that and they'll restrict our freedom. Yes, especially if they can make more money.
100%. Have more control, have more power.
And if COVID taught us anything, it taught us that we can't forfeit freedom to low IQ power hungry bureaucrats that want to affect our life because they're stupid. So why would we ever give away our freedom to a bunch of stupid bureaucrats? That to me is the fundamental difference between the entire election process.
It's like, how do I maintain or increase my individual accountability which comes with freedom right and how If we want to capitulate that that's the other side. I think that's a referendum on freedom.
Yes I I don't want to oversimplify it, but that's kind of where I think it is it's where it is You're not over simplifying it if you don't have that you don't have any of these things No, you don't have any growth you don't you have you're gonna have people that are in power that stifle discourse they're gonna stifle debate they're gonna stifle it because they only want their side to be heard is that lady at the table telling me that Sam Harris and Douglas Murray was hate speech it's those people you have those people dictating what you can and can't talk about based on their own morals and you don't even know how they think about things. You don't even know them.

They don't do podcasts.

They're not hanging out with you at the bar.

You're not going to dinner with them.

You don't fucking know them.

So you don't know if they're making good judgment calls.

You don't know if their assessment of something is something you agree with

or if it's even rational.

You don't know.

You just – these weird strikes you get on your account.

You get like this fear-based letter that comes to you. If you this again, you're fucked like oh, no now What do I do? I better self-censor and go along with the machine and stop misgendering people and stop doing this and stop doing that and stop saying this and and then you're fucked and then you're fucked and then you might as well be living in any other country that's controlled by a dictator.

It's just a dictator by a different name.

Right.

That's all it is.

It's fascism, but it's not right-wing fascism.

It's left-wing fascism.

It's adherence to the state.

They want you to go along with the mandate.

The way they talk about things is the way you have to talk about things.

And to think of anything, this election was a giant fuck you to all that.

Where everybody was like, fuck, you guys are are fucking crazy we see where this is going you're going right off a cliff and you're running and if anything that showed you about that the the harris budget which has spent a billion dollars 580 million of it or something like that was for staff yeah 580 million and

There's all this money that went to all these outreach groups and all these different and

Celebrities and like what the fuck is this and then they're 20 million dollars in debt at the end of it

And you want to manage the economy?

This sounds crazy

This is a what did you do like what happened here who went crazy with the checkbook yeah who went hog wild who went hog wild nobody in the administration has ever been business right i mean i yeah like nobody find out what the numbers were to staff because i want to be accurate about that that, but I think I am. I think it was 580 million.

And I was watching this on Fox News, and they don't lie.

No, they don't.

They never lie.

They had a giant lawsuit, right?

The Dominion lawsuit.

Yeah, that was a big one.

They got hit.

I had to piss.

All right, let's take a little break here, ladies and gentlemen.

We'll be right back.

Yeah, they said it on Fox News, Jamie, so it has to be true. It has to be true.
Man, that's way better. Oh, fuck.
No, better than Fox News. Patrick Bet-David.
I know, I know. I'm telling you, I see the tweets that say that, but Fox News' website says the campaign spent $56 million on payroll and payroll taxes.
So what's that other money? But wasn't there all the money that they had spent on activism? Yes, yes, yes. Didn't they count that in staff? No, I don't know.
This all comes from Twitter. I don't know where they get the number from.
Well, if it comes from Twitter, Jamie, it's real. I'm just telling you.
Stop being a fucking party pooper. There are people asking for their services.
Scroll up and let me see what this says. It says it.
But no, I'm sorry. I'll scroll down a little.
I just want to see what it says. So it says Kamala raised $1.003 billion.
She spent $1.37 billion. She spent $582.53 million on staff.
that doesn't add up because I saw she spent $680 million

on ads. So those two numbers, there's no money left over for everything else.
Right. So one of the two isn't correct.
How much did she spend on ads? $680 million or something. Oh, my God.
She could have done my podcast for free. Dude, that is like the secret.
It's not even a secret. When it's campaign time and you have all these ads, these ad guys that are out there, they're buying up all the ads.
And it's a wash in money. It's hundreds of millions of dollars.
And they're just pipelining campaign donations into ads and it's like loading up their money guns and just shooting it into space that's what they're doing that is what it's like right and they've been telling people that this is effective yeah and so they have this have this business going. It's just complete absurdity.
Don't get me wrong. I actually, politics is so fun for me because I think it's really interesting and it's like, I can't get into football or anything else because I like the data associated with things.
And if I got into football, I'd be like one of those fantasy football dorks and i can't get into it and so politics is one of the things where i'm like i follow it i love it it's interesting just trying to understand the strategy behind it i've changed my opinion of it a little bit since the election i don't think um the the control the grip of the control of the country is as strong as I thought it was. I thought this concept – so everyone has a concept of they.
They don't want you to know things. They're controlling things.
I have a feeling that in times of crisis, like what we find ourselves currently in, it's like when the lights come on and roaches scatter. That what I have a feeling.
I have a feeling. There's no way that they can trust each other and That they all know that a certain percentage of people are going down for corruption There's a certain percentage of people that did some dirty shit.
Yeah, there's a certain there's some connections with Organizations and corporations and some emails save your emails. It's one of the that rfk said yeah it was one of the records and pack your bags dude so epic yeah that's epic preserve your records because we know you're all a bunch of liars yes we we've caught you already on emails lying about stuff so this is you've all perjured yourselves like Fauci perjured himself yes there's no difference no difference There's just that just a definition of gain of function like shut the fuck up You don't change the definition and make it ultra super nuanced so that it fits in your little Excuse box of why you didn't fund gain-of-function research the fuck you didn't that's what you did That's what it is and when Rand Paul was confronting him with it.
That was like one of the craziest moments You sir, sir, do not know what you are talking about. It's like an evil villain.
Yeah. Yeah.
An evil villain that just lied to everybody and got away with it. And no repercussions.
Well, I think that's, I think that's like the story over and over for these guys that are empowered. There's no repercussions.
Yeah. There's no accountability.

I oftentimes think of Dick Cheney as a guy sitting back in like a high back leather chair in a big black tile office that's completely shiny with a white cat on his lap, like just petting him. That's the way I think about that fucking guy like fuck that guy like how i these guys you know to keep flashing back to this but it forever fucking changed me right where i'm like these guys fucked up so many people's lives like countless countless lives and the fact that they still think they have public trust with zero accountability yeah man how wild was it when dick cheney was endorsing obama or excuse me was endorsing kamala of course he was everybody was like yeah look at that right wing people yeah like you might as well have painted if you would have been a NASCAR driver, he would have had a Lockheed Martin fucking jersey on right then, at that point.
Or Satan. Yeah, yeah.
Satan and Lockheed Martin. They're fucking working together.
Sponsored by Satan. Patches on his uniform.
Like that Chappelle. You remember that fucking Chappelle skit where it's like politicians.
Yeah. They were there.
NASCAR drivers. Yeah.
I would like to bash. Satan would be amazing.
Just all caps on the back. Satan.
And the liberals would still find a way. You know, it's like Satanism in the classical sense.
It was just like a rejection of the norm. I mean, think about it.
He's a fallen angel.

You know, I mean, think about how bad that is. We have to think about it.
Yeah, Dick Cheney's basically a fallen angel. Have you seen those Babylon Bee skits where it's like Satan talking to the Democrats about like, dude, you guys fucked.
You guys jumped a shark on this. What are you doing? It's so good.
Did you see the Babylon Bees one recently where they're talking about criticizing Trump's

new appointments in comparison to Biden's appointments?

Have you seen it?

No.

It's just images.

I can fucking see it.

See, you can find it, Jamie, on the Instagram.

It's that one dude.

It's the bald dude with the dress.

It's the other dude who's the first female admiral.

It's the first female admiral. Imagine if you're a woman and you're trying to become an admiral.
This motherfucker just jumps the line. He's like, okay, yeah, cool.
Have you seen it? That whole thing with like the it's like the Avengers United. Here it is.
Biden administration declares Trump cabinet picks unqualified. Oh God.
If you just Like, if you just look at that thing, and then you look at, like, when I say things, right, it's just like you look at this thing, and then you do a direct comparison. Like, okay.
You know who scares the fuck out of me? Who? That new borders are. Oh, dude, he's a bad motherfucker.
He scares me. He scares me.
I imagine myself with a backpack sneaking across the Rio Grande. That guys there no Yeah, like what did he say he was like About families is there any way to not separate families? Yes He deported them together at them all eight you know what it reminded me of you remember that? It's just like he said I was like whoa This is getting dark.
Yeah, See I'm like a bleeding heart. Like I want people from another country that are poor to make their way here and make a better life.
I want that. I just want to be scanned.
I want to know who the fuck is coming over. I want to make sure they're not cartel members.
I want to make sure they're not terrorists. But I'm all for people that want a better life because I would do it.
I'd be a complete total hypocrite if I said I lived in Guatemala in some village and there's no power. And I found out that I could walk to America.
And if I did it, it'd take three days. And then I can get a job in the fields.
And then I make way more money. I can send money home.
And everybody could have clean water. I'd fucking do it.
You would do it. We'd all do it.
So I get. We'd all do it.
That's so part of me is like, man, I don't want to send anybody back. But the other part of me is like, what about terrorists? Like, what about checking for cartel members? What about the fentanyl that's coming through? Like, you can't have an open border.
I believe in it like, I believe in a meritocracy, right? It's like, may the best idea prevail. May the hardest workers prevail.
The problem is, is when we export all of our manufacturing to China, when we have, have an like south american we have a border crisis yeah obviously i'm a coffee guy so i think about coffee all the time and i think about nicaragua el salvador and like all of the south american central american countries that grow coffee and i talk to the farmers and all we have to pay them is five or 10 cents more a pound, depending on the coffee.

And most of the time when I'm talking about coffees, I'm like, yeah, no problem.

10 cents more.

Who cares?

What that allows them to do is build schools, pay a livable wage, all the things that they

need to do to be successful in Guatemala, Nicaragua, wherever they're going, wherever we're talking about.

So I think about this.

Okay, so we're exporting these manufacturing jobs to China.

And if we're just concentrating on economic policies in this hemisphere, where from a national security perspective, if we're exporting jobs to South America, we're creating economic opportunity and mobility in South America and Central America, we're creating jobs, economic stability, generational wealth, and we're also solving one of the issues that we're having, which is a border crisis. It just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me to say, hey, we want to export.
And I know this started with the Nixon administration. And you have essentially slave labor, which I'm 110% against, which I don't think in any way, shape, or form we should support economically.
So if we're to export and look at this from a manufacturing and industry perspective from this hemisphere how do we align ourselves around strategic stability how do we protect against our border crisis how do we still import because i mean i know americans love their cheap goods like they love their shit you what I mean? They still want to have this decreased labor cost. I think investing in South and Central America is just not a bad thing.
If we're not going to invest in America because of the cost, then we have to invest in this hemisphere. Well, it makes sense that if you want to make the world a better place and you want less people trying to sneak into our country, of the best ways to make their country better right but we got to do it ethically the crazy thing and this is we've beaten this horse a thousand times is that everybody has a phone and everybody's phone is made by slaves right and it's if it's not made by slaves the cobalt that's in it up it's a there's a real high chance that it came from someone with a fucking stick poking it into the ground and digging it out for you.
Right. And that's everybody.
We have to take a hard look at all this stuff. We should be making our phones in America.
We should be making our phones in America with American minerals. They're a source for people that get paid a fair labor wage.
They get health benefits. There's OSHA.
People check on things. Make sure that regulations are are in place Make sure that people get like make sure that they're making enough money to make a living to live a livable wage That you you have to do that in America if you want to do it legally The only reason to do it somewhere else is so that you can do something legal Because it's legal there, but it's not legal where you live It shouldn't be legal to have people working in another country for you for fucking 15 cents an hour it's just it's too crazy it's too crazy that you just you cross this dirt path and now you're allowed to be a piece of shit like it seems crazy but if you're doing it the right way and you're paying people well and you're allowing people to like thrive in a place where there was nothing before yeah you can you can give people a pathway to do a lot of different things Economic success opens up a lot of fucking doors Especially with education especially with safety with schools with better communities people have money that there's not so much tension Yeah, it's good.
It's good to have a thriving industry. It's good to have a thriving economy.
It's good for everybody It's just not not good for everybody, everybody. There's always going to be people that suffer in every kind of economy, in every kind of situation in the world.
There's going to be people that suffer. And like we were talking about on the way here, some of it's just luck.
There's a lot of luck. There's a lot of luck.
Luck is a real thing, good and you know That's one of the most important things about having some success in this life You know it's having the humility to understand that you just got lucky as fuck you're lucky as fuck if you're alive Especially you right? Yeah, you know how lucky am is like tenfold order I got all my fingers and toes it's it's It's great. I'm really incredible business.
I think good friend of mine. God man Like it's so incredible when you think about like the birthplace lottery Of hitting the jackpot like holy shit.
I think in this time too. Yeah, I think we're so lucky in this time I think I'm particularly lucky because I grew up before the internet was at all.
Like how old are you? 47. So I'm 10 years older than you.
So when I was like 30, no, I think I was 27 when the internet became like a normal thing to have in your house and you had a dial up and you turn on America got mail or you got mail. You've got mail on AOL.

So from that point on, the fucking world changed so wildly and so quickly that we weren't even really noticing it while it was changing.

And now here we are.

Here we are in 2024 where it seems like the most chaotic, the most weird.

Trump just won again. Somehow or another, I helped him.
Like, all this fucking crazy. Like, this is the wildest timeline ever.
This is the most, we're talking about, this is the most optimistic. Yeah.
I've been in our country. Yeah.
This is the most optimistic I've been in my adult life. Yeah, the moment that he won like that in a landslide, I was like, maybe they don't have such a grasp.
And maybe this will open up the door to making things more rational and balanced. And we could stop a lot of this fucking awful corruption that's just intertwined, like the mycelium that's under the soil.
Yeah. The corruption is just intertwined.
And a lot of it's legal corruption. Dude, it's insane.
When you think about, obviously, I'm super interested in the military-industrial complex. But when you think about, we had, we'll say, 50, 60 military-industrial contractors at the start of 9-11 and then now we're down to five

and we think of 860 billion dollars of annual debt associated with the defense budget which has gone up since our height in the world on terror or the war on terror and we have five guy or five big companies that are basically taking 50% of that 860, and then 50% of that is profit. And how is it happening? When you think of this triangular effect between the military-industrial complex and, okay, you have the revolving door between the Pentagon.
So every star that comes out of the Pentagon goes back into the military industrial complex with X amount of years of disassociation, blah, blah, blah. It's okay.
Then you go back to the military industrial complex. So you go into like Lockheed, Raytheon, one of the top five.
Then you have congressmen and senators that are making decisions

specifically related to the budget in the military the defense budget they're lobbying to increase

defense spending but then they also have uh factories that are related to like the f-35

or some big military contract where they're making 40 30 30, 40, 50% in profit. So they're the guys that are lobbying to increase the defense budget.
Their campaigns are being paid for by the military industrial complex. They're directly increasing the military budget.
It's a self-licking ice cream cone. It's insane.
It's completely insane. And the fact that we don't have any strict firewalls and separation from an ethics and I'm not against people creating jobs in their state.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the fact that there are not strict firewalls between the fact that you're going to directly profit and or your campaigns are paid for by the people that you will lobby to go in and increase the taxpayer's liability.
I was thinking about this the other day. I was like, if the taxpayer had an itemized look at where their taxes go when they just came out annually or once a month or whatever it is and they looked at what they were paying for I'm pretty sure they might have a more vested interest into how much they're paying what they're paying paying for, and saying, you know what, maybe

we shouldn't be asleep at the wheel.

Maybe we should probably pay a little bit more attention to this.

Isn't that amazing that you don't get an itemized list, but you're required to give

an extraordinary percentage of your money to the government?

Like, what is the tax bracket of someone who makes a million dollars a year?

What is that?

40%.

40%?

Yeah, yeah.

43% probably.

Okay, let's imagine you're paying 40% in income taxes. Then if you live in California, you pay another 14.4, I think it is, something like that.
And then I think it's another 1% if you live in the city of Los Angeles. So now you're down to 30 what 34% what do you What do you get there? Somewhere in the high 30s.
So then you have sales tax on everything you buy. You have property tax.
You have insurance. You have whatever your house costs.
You don't have a lot of money left over. And the government doesn't even have to tell you what they're spending it on.
Like you probably probably get less than they do, if you really think about it. If they get 40 percent – let's just say you don't have tax shelters and all that good stuff.
But if you get – if you pay 40 percent in income taxes, and then after all the shit, like, after all property tax and state tax and this tax and sales tax, like, what do you have – how much did you get? What did you get? How much did you, how much money did you actually get? Like, I bet the government got more than you got, bitch. 70% of your time at work is working for the Faye.
Yeah. That is so bananas that you don't even get an itemized list of what they spend it on.
I have to file my audited financials, right? I think all the time i have to it's a requirement i have to pass them right the pentagon hasn't hasn't passed an audit in decades they have like 60 we'll just say 50 of the pentagon's expenses they're like i don't know i don't know Sorry. Shit out of luck, taxpayer.
So how is it? It's this rules for thee, not for me. That's the rule.
Don't they always miss their audits? Yes. How many times have they missed their audits? It's insane.
The Pentagon? Yeah, the Pentagon. How many times? I think it's like, it's crazy numbers too, like who like whoopsies oops I just forgot about that 300 billion dollars says they've never passed an audit yeah there we go so it's rules for thee not for me they've never passed an audit there's never come on Yeah.
Come on, never? Never. Never.
The Pentagon's accounting records are so convoluted that billions of dollars cannot be accounted for. Charges a new government report.
Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
That is so crazy. Never? Yeah.
And you'll go to jail if you don't pay these. You'll go to jail if you're not paying your taxes.
You haven't survived an audit. That's so funny.
That's so funny. Despite having trillions of dollars in assets and receiving hundreds of billions of federal dollars annually, the department has never detailed its assets and liabilities in a given year.
For the past three financial years, the Defense Department's audit has resulted in a disclaimer of opinion, meaning the auditor didn't get enough accounting records to form an assessment. Like, sorry, we don't have any paperwork.
Yeah. Where'd the money go? I forgot.
Gotta go. I'm just a military guy.
We are just trying to keep America safe. Yeah.

That's what it is, man. What if all of it's going to UFOs?

Huh? What if all of it's going to UFOs?

What if all of it's going to some propulsion research thing that they're doing?

They've got UFOs. They're just not telling us.

What are they spending it on?

How much of it is getting

greased into the side pockets

of people? But even then, from a transparency

perspective, does it not shake out

for us? Because if we're saying,

hey, we're going to spend

And greased into the side pockets of people but even then from a transparency perspective does it not shake out for us because if we're saying yeah hey we're gonna spend i don't know let's just call it a hundred billion dollars on like black fund experimental technology to maintain our strategic hegemony yeah i like it said it like that that's official. Do you think that we would all be like, no?

I mean, it's better than not passing a fucking audit where you're like, I don't know where it goes, man.

Yeah, I'd rather you tell me that you can't tell me than tell me you don't know.

Right.

Tell me you can't tell me.

Tell me you can't tell me.

Despite costing more than $1.7 trillion in its estimated life cycle, attempts to audit

the program have run into major hurdles of the F-35. So this is just the F-35? The F-35 is just some propulsion money.
It could. It has to.
$1.7 trillion, they probably... Just for one program.
I'm sure. Look, if Area 51 exists, and now we know it does for sure, it was a real base.
They said it wasn't a base forever, and then during the Obama administration, they had to expand the boundaries because uh surveillance equipment and binoculars and telescopes were getting better and more sophisticated and they were filming things that were flying around they shouldn't have been filming so they expanded the boundaries they had to say that area 51 existed right right so what was that where'd you get the money what'd you do what are you doing down there why do people say you have ufos what the fuck are you? Why do you have a base in the middle of fucking nowhere that's built into the side of a mountain? Like, why are you guys acting like this is an Avengers movie? What are you doing out here? Once again, it goes back to just transparency. Yeah.
Or you can't tell me because you think I'm a fucking baby. Like, the same reason why you can't have mushrooms.
The same reason why we can't have full of the jfk assassination right there's 4 000 documents we haven't even have we talked about the jfk assassination on this i think we have have we like gone down the rabbit hole of you i went down the rabbit hole with multiple people including my theory no maybe not i don't know what's your theory my theory is like it all goes back to the bay of pigs it's all bay of the Bay of Pigs. It's all Bay of Pigs.

It's all Cuba. It's all Bay of Pigs.
And so I'm looking at it from a paramilitary CIA perspective and thinking about it from Alan Dulles, which obviously like he's in charge of the Warren Commission after Kennedy fired him. So I'm giving everybody a kind of a summary explanation.
Yeah, Dulles Airport, which is the is the dullest brothers the single most two powerful fucking people in washington even during the administration but either way so what happened i think was so operation zapata which is also george hw bush's first oil company that he supposedly left fucking connecticut and went out after his Yale, you know, his Yale tenure after World War II was like, I'm going to be an oil guy and start fucking Zapata oil. Yeah, of course.
Right. Even though his dad's best friend with Alan Dulles.
Sure. Anyway, so.
So. So Operation Zapata, which it turns into the bay of pigs and kennedy gets read in on this he says yes let's go and then when it comes down to the day like i mean you've built uh 1400 let's say you know 12 1300 man That's, that's a CIA, former Cuban exile army.
You've built it in Alan Dulles has been the main architecture. He's been the main architect behind this.
You've got all these guys. So let's even go back.
These are all OSS World War II, World War II guys that let's let's create a clear delineation between what they're doing and what they think the president is doing. The president's like, yeah, yeah, he's elected.
Fuck that guy. We're the agency.
That's the way Alan Dulles actually ran things. Half the time, he wouldn't even brief the president on what he was doing.
So he puts together this thing, clears it through Eisenhower. Eisenhower says, yes, let's go take those fucking, you know, Cuban commies out.
They put together a 1100 man force. They've been training on this.
They've got secret bases in Guatemala. They've got all these paramilitary cia guys they're ready to take the beach they're expecting air support because without air support that changes the entire tactical equation like if you don't have air support there's a lot of things you just don't fucking do period so the morning of kennedy denies air support for the bay of pigs So the morning of Kennedy denies air support for the Bay of Pigs.
So the morning of. So these dudes are taking the beach.
These are hardcore, like CIA trained paramilitary guys, Cuban exiles, and World War II, hardcore regime change combat veteran. Like these are the hardest motherfuckers on the planet that we have.
He pulls air support. He left 1,100 guys on the beach to die, basically.
These guys all get rolled up, so they lost about 60 guys. 24-06 is the name of the brigade 60 guys died a thousand plus got put in cuban prisons now you got an axe grind you just pissed off the entire cia paramilitary organization i don't know if i'm the president i don't know how i don't end up with a moonroof to be honest with you like i just pissed off the guys that are actually in charge of like assassination paramilitary all of the dirty deeds around the planet i fire alan dulles for this catastrophe of the bay of pigs i've got a thousand plus guys that are in prison in Cuba.
I've got the entire former OSS, hardcore anti-communist, anti-Castro organization of the CIA pissed off. If you don't think they're not going to tee a guy up like some pro, you know, commie Oswald guy in a, you know, in a multi-story building in Dallas.
If you don't think you're going to end up with a hole in your head, you're crazy, to be honest with you. That's the way I'm looking at this.
So they end up getting these guys out. But, man, he pissed off a lot.
A super capable guy means opportunity intent means opportunity intent which is now you left me and my buddies on a beach in cuba bro you are not gonna get out of here unscathed i'm just yeah that's my theory i think that along with all the other stuff means there was probably a bunch of people that did not want him around oh yeah he wanted to get rid of the cia yeah he he had his eyes on the federal reserve there was a lot of crazy talk about secret societies and you know you've seen that speech about secret societies. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. And he was a real threat.

And as soon as you can get those killers to want him out, too, well, now you've got a problem solved.

Well, you had a bunch of guys that thought he was soft on Russia.

They had a bunch of dirt on him because he was banging a bunch of chicks.

All of which, okay, you know, maybe it's true, maybe it's false. I don't know but i'm i think it's fairly validated at this point i think it's pretty true and you've got a you have a a collection of people that are are thinking this is a zero-sum game this is a cold war if you're weak on russia and you think that the guy's gonna bend his

you know he's gonna bend a knee to the bear we've got a lot of you gotta

you've got this confluence of interests where it's inevitable and I was also not

universally loved we think of him as being universally loved because he's dead yeah But when he was alive, there was a lot of people that were not fans of his in the red states. Probably particularly in Dallas.
Dallas. He's driving through Dallas.
He had LBJ that's from... What's amazing about it really is how sloppy the whole...
Sloppypy as shit. The whole thing.
From autopsy to the fucking magic bullet laying on the gurney to having to come up with a magic bullet theory because of the ricochet in the underpass. The whole thing is so clunky.
It's such a shitty explanation. You couldn't kill one extra guy and say there was another guy over here? We killed him too.
Yeah. You guys are, this is such a shit job.

You guys, you don't have one other idiot.

You can get out there.

One other idiot, give him a bad rifle and just fucking shoot him.

But they don't have any, they don't have the context of what we have, which is social media.

Right.

Of course.

You know, I mean, when did the Zapruder film?

It was like 12 years later.

Yeah.

And it was on the Geraldo Rivera show.

Which is completely insane.

Dick Gregory, who is a stand-up comedian, brought it on the Geraldo Rivera show.

Are you serious?

I didn't know that.

Dick Gregory, who is a stand-up.

He's a lot more than that, too.

He's an activist, but like a real one.

You know, not in any way some sort of a social value grifter, which I think a lot of people gravitate towards activism because it gives them a chance to be really shitty because they're right. He was a brilliant guy.
But it was also a guy who, like, was a truth seeker back when it was really hard to get to the truth. This guy had to acquire a copy of the Saprudo film when Time Life got a hold of it, apparently, like, right after the assassination.
And it they just kept it they just kept it and when you watch it you realize why they kept it because you see his head go back into the left and it looks like he does get shot in the neck from the front he holds his fucking neck like this he doesn't hold the back he holds his neck like this like that's impact that's where hit him. And then his fucking head goes back into the left

and we're supposed to think that this fucking guy

did all this from the school depository.

Maybe he did take a shot or two from the school

book depository. I don't think

he was innocent. I'm not of the camp like it's a

binary thing. Like it's either Lee Harvey

Oswald was a patsy

and the CIA killed him or Lee Harvey Oswald

acted alone. That's a stupid way to think.

I think for sure they used him. They probably gave him a rifle.
He might have been in that window. He might have just been in the building.
He might have been in the area. Who knows? I think he probably did shoot that cop.
Like when they were chasing after him, it seems like he did kill that cop. I think he was an asset.
But I also think there was a bunch of people shooting at the president. And if you look at that area, you've been to Dealey, you've been there, right? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. It's oh shit this is where it's a lot smaller than i thought it was it's tiny it's really little yeah like when people say he couldn't have made those shots like shut the fuck up he's right there he's like right up like literally you look up in the buildings right he had a scope at least he had a scope that's what's crazy about the kid that tried to kill the president but tried to kill trump He didn't even he had iron sights Which is insane, but it's not if you just go in center mass, but this dude's doing for a headshot a hundred and forty yards And he's probably never shot anybody before now.
He's a 20 year old kid that they just somehow or another Operation MK ultra mind fucked him into shooting at him or he's on some crazy medication or or or who knows it's a chip in his head who knows who knows what the fuck happened but you know and then some mobster some like happenstance mobster is so passionate about Kennedy he's like I'm gonna kill him I'm gonna shoot Lee Harvey and people are letting him in with the pistol bang it's so dumb dude it's it's then you know what happens to him right yeah he dies of cancer I'm going to shoot Lee Harvey. And people are letting him in with the pistol.
Bang. It's so dumb.
Dude, it's... Then you know what happens to him, right? Yeah, he dies of cancer.
Like hardcore. Before that, before that.
No, huh? Jolly West visits him in jail. And he goes crazy.
Jolly West, who's the head of MKUltra. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Jolly West was the guy who got Charles Manson the acid, allegedly. From the book Chaos, he goes into it.lly west went to visit lee harvey oswald and

excuse me uh jack ruby jack ruby's on the ground underneath his bunk crying in the fetal position that they're they're murdering the jews with fire and he's tripping balls this guy dosed him up with acid blew his fucking brains out and then they probably injected him with cancer 100 see you later fuck face i think you have this outside so what if we want to go all the way back and you want to just know my like yeah two cents on this yeah yeah okay so dulles knows that eventually the president is going to like they're going to snuff him out they're going to fire him dulles decides that he's going to have this whole separate CIA that's CIA guys, but they're all really very trusted in internal, external guys. And I think those guys are essentially his guys.
and they get hung out to dry in the bay of pigs they're not attributable to the cia other than loose affiliated documents i think dullest gets fired and they're like okay let's go let's like alan dullest didn't want to be answering to the president because he didn't answer to the people. He was answering to a bigger call in his mind.
He's answering to this is an eminent threat. The big communist bear is going to come and eat our lunch.
So he's answering to the greater good, which is a reason for like the backdrop of the Cold War is a reason for a lot of this nefarious activity. Like Angleton, like all these directors, everybody looks at these guys as like really nefarious characters.
But you have to paint everything in the backdrop of the Cold War. Like we're doing all this stuff to save America, right? i'm not validating them they have we have to understand that perspective yes because that was a big thing even when i was in high school this is the cold war they're going to fucking kill us they're gonna nuke us yeah so we will do it's very mclevelian the means justify the ends right anything and everything to save the at any point point in time so you have guys that are baptized in extreme patriotism and their belief is that they are doing things for the best of the nation and that if they have an elected official they can't be trusted they can't be trusted and they're these are guys that are in, you know, I went out to Omaha for the 80th.
These are, it's so interesting for me to think back on this because these are guys that are World War II vets that, like, they saw everybody die. You know, I mean, theets lost tens of millions of guys in world war ii they were defeating fascism which is you know they were defeating the nazi party you know the japanese army and they've seen thousands of men die and they're serious guys they're not they're not light-.
They're not full of love. Like these are guys that are baptized in ultra violence to the point of which this is a zero sum game.
And we have everything to lose and nothing to gain by being nice. And nobody will get in our way to being able to maintain the sovereignty of the nation.
Once again, I'm not justifying it. I can just get into the mind of them because if I'm jumping into Nazi occupied France in, you know, 1940 X, because a lot of the OSS teams went in there and I'm watching my friends get fucking mowed down by Nazi machine guns and I'm killing Nazis and I'm moving my way to overthrow Hitler.
And now I feel like Stalin is the next thing that I have to defeat. But the American public just doesn't understand.
I'm like, I'm 1945, man. I have been quite literally baptized in blood and I'm not going to let it happen.
Now you think about a high intellect type A driven ultra violent guy that may be semi-coherent based on their copious consumption of alcohol. Probably, right? Yeah.
Yeah. Okay, well um a lot of these programs start to make sense because these guys are like they're fucking serious guys and they think that we're gonna die in a nuclear holocaust right and everything the means justifies it's a very mclevelian i don't necessarily once again i'm not trying to say that like every evil deed is justified i'm just saying like i've seen the beaches in normandy i understand greater than a lot of a lot of people with combat and the direct psychological and emotional effects what it'll do to people and i can i can kind of see myself going like hey man if i'm a 26 year old guy that just went and fought the fought the Nazis and I think that the big bad bear is coming after me.
Right. Man, you're a pretty serious character.
That feeling of the big bad bear coming after us got lifted with the fall of the Berlin Wall, with the fall of the Soviet Union. All that stuff went away.
The fear. When I was a kid, that fear was everywhere.
You know, I've talked to so many people that are like my age or around my age that remember being a child and being worried about a war With nuclear bombs with Russia. It was a constant It was in the air when Khrushchev banged his shoe on the the table and said we will bury you I watched that video on YouTube just like a month ago, and it's still scary So the two fucking bang in his shoe and when he said we will bury you Was that a direct quote or was that propaganda? Let me that one feels fishy.
I Bet that's one where it's like a little bit Well that I think that was a slippery than we will bury you because you know what I mean like when that was a direct that was a direct response to when we agreed we have this mutual agreement between the Soviets and Khrushchev wasn't like Khrushchev wasn't actually a Stalinist he was making very big reforms and in in the Soviet Union and so he felt betrayed by the YouTube spy missions that were taking place when we after you know after they shot down the you two spy plane in Russia and because we lied he was like bang bang bang and I'm fairly certain that's what that whole thing was about because I think that wasushchev was a man of honor. Oh, I see.
And these fucking guys are lying to me. Oh.
And, I mean, Stalin was a shitbag. Of course.
But Khrushchev was, like, making significant reforms within the country. He was broadly condemned by a lot of the old, the Stalinists as— Here it is.
I don't see him banging a shoe in the video. He's banging his hand.
Oh, he's banging his fist, yeah. I thought he banged a shoe.
The video says, did he bang a shoe? Mr. President, we live on the earth not by your grace, but by your grace and mind, Whoa.
That's a scary language when they're yelling it. I know.
Put that under a couple pints of vodka. Someone was saying this, but it's so true.
There's nothing scarier than Russian Muslims. Like the fighters.
Chechnya. Like the fucking fighters.
Russian Muslims are the fucking the fucking scariest fighters dude i think if there's like one group that i would categorize like what's the scariest i might be russian muslims from the cia's website we will bury you threat widely attributed to khrushchev in western press was reported to have been made at a send-off reception to poland's Gamuka in Moscow, November 1956.

According to Time Magazine, Khrushchev was overheard to say at the final reception for the Polish leader, if you don't like us, don't accept our invitations and don't invite us to come to see you, whether you like it or not, history is on our side, we will bury you. So he said that to Poland.
But that was a Wasn't that in a police song or a

St. it or not history is on our side we will bury you so he said that to Poland but that was a wasn't that in a police song or a sting song the Russians love their children too wasn't that scorpions no no no no no no I think it was a sting song really sting song called the Russians yeah oh yeah yeah yeah it was saying Khrushchev said he will bury you so they probably it was probably some fake news just like how they said about Trump saying the very fine people on both sides it's always been it's been fascinating to me because I think about the Russians and how many tens of millions of people they lost in World War two yeah and I think about very empathetically how they got fucked.
They really did. And I'm not saying we did anything bad.
I'm just saying what we did was we delayed the invasion of Normandy. And we felt like a lot of people think this was that we were trying to soften up the Soviet Union because we felt that they were a follow on threat in World War Two.

But we we delayed the invasion intentionally, essentially to let a lot of Russians, millions of Russians essentially die on the Eastern Front. and when you really think about it

from

those men from my context in in you know combat from uh how i think about combat how i think about death like those guys had a significant axe to grind because they're like we need fucking help we need you to open up the Western front I'm not validating Stalin because once again I think he's a complete piece of shit I know what you're saying but yeah yeah is a Russian right and population knowing that we delayed the opening up the Western Front to go and take over essentially you know hitler nazi not nazi europe because at that point obviously it wasn't just one person yeah we have a significant amount of mistrust with you guys because we lost you know 20 million people plus the civilian population. I mean, some estimates 30 million fucking people.

And you guys opened up Normandy, came through, and then you're telling everybody that you won. You're the reason you won World War II and you're not even giving us any validated credit.
They had invaded Japan before we dropped the bomb. and the Japanese were just as terrified of the Russians as they were the Americans.
However, I can see from the Russian perspective going, man, we sacrificed millions of people to defeat the Nazis. And you guys are basically giving us no credit.
So I think back, and I'm like, man, 1945, like, where these guys were at, because they're all about my same age, we went to combat roughly the same, same age. And there were a lot of people that were debating all of these issues back then, 1946 they were talking about uh you know not only stalin but you know patent was talking about like we need to just keep going right patent was talking about like going we need to keep going we need to defeat soviet russia and eisenhower was like actually no you're crazy uh fuck dude i think that's what he said you know i think that's he's like hey fuck dude like what are you talking about pat that's what he said.
You know, I think that's what he's like. Hey, fuck, dude.
Like, what are you talking about, Patton? You're crazy, man. Basically, that's what he said when he addressed the nation.
Yeah. Right? Yeah.
And that was right after that. So I keep thinking about myself and like those guys.
I think about myself a lot of times, too, where, you know, 20 plus years after the fact, like this is 1968. This is 1968, man, from our war.

So from 1945 to 1968, give or take,

you think about all these GWAC guys

that are being appointed.

It's kind of a cool revolution,

but 68 was a very important year

in American history.

I think 24 was a really important year

in American history. Yeah.
24 is a big one the one we're in right now is a big one yeah I think when when people look back at history with these great moments of change I mean think about how you know people look back at the Reagan administration like when Reagan got elected what a landslide like they look back at those days like We look back at like these historical moments, but I think this one is crazier than any of them This guy gets kicked out. They try to put him in jail multiple times get shot at he says fight fight fight He and then he wins he wins in a landslide when they were all saying that it was a close race And the whole thing is just wild to watch It's like like, this is nuts.
Like, this show's nuts. If you're watching this show on TV, like, these writers are fucking amazing.
Whatever they're doing, like, keep doing this. This show's crazy.
There's twists and turns. You got your crazy billionaire character who doesn't even seem real.
Doesn't even seem real. This guy's making rockets and electric cars.
He's fucking, There's no way. He buys Twitter because he wants to save free speech.
What? It's insane. And the people that used to love him now hate him.
The people that are driving their Teslas around, like, God damn it. They're angry, but they still have a lease.
You still have your Tesla. You hate Elon.
You hate X. And Don Lemon said, I'm leaving X.
There's no good discussions to be had here Yeah, it's fucking boohoo You don't like criticism if you want to get into this game, okay, you want to get into the the online game The online games different and the online game you get judged by who you fucking actually are dude It's not about your producers and your teleprompter and shut up You're on your own people think you're stupid. You're gonna hear it and it might be because you're stupid It might be look people say a lot of people are stupid that are not stupid.
I've seen people say brilliant people I've seen people say Elon Musk is stupid. I have seen that I've seen that I've seen there's you're gonna get it no matter what you're gonna get it Everyone's gonna get it.
But if everybody's saying you're stupid Maybe you might be stupid. You might be stupid He might have been protected from that stupid by these network shows if you want to exist online and you don't like Criticism on Twitter or you think there's disinformation on Twitter community notes on Twitter is the greatest fucking thing That's ever been created Because people get to look through the community notes and find out.
Oh that is bullshit And here's why it's bullshit or all that actually is true even though it sounds crazy and people are protesting. It's actually true That's fun.
That's good. We learned something if you can't handle that Well, you can go wherever where do you go now? Where do you go? Where you go threads? What? Do people go to Threads? Nobody goes to Threads.
But they were for a while. What, you can go wherever.
Where do you go now? Where do you go? Where do you go? Threads?

What? Nobody goes to

Threads. But they were for a while.

What are you crazy? Seriously? They were for a while. Yeah.
It's not gonna work,

I don't think. No.
Have you ever had, I

don't know, have you ever had Zuckerberg on?

Yeah, I like Zuckerberg a lot. Yeah?

Yeah, I like him a lot. I think he's a weird guy.

You have to be a weird guy if you're a super genius

100 billionaire who's into

jujitsu. He's a weird guy.
But he's super genius, 100 billionaire who's into jujitsu.

He's a weird guy.

But he's cool. I like him.
I've had fun with him. Yeah, we played a fencing game together with virtual goggles.
What? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We both put on...
He fences. So we both put on virtual goggles.
You got on mine when he was like in Hawaii or San Francisco? No, we did it in the same room. Oh, okay.
It was fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The new Oculus is fucking cool. And you've got to wonder where that's going to be because when i first tried um the first very first oculus it was kind of cool but kind of crude in a way and with each new version of it you get like it's much smaller now it used to be we had a cable and the cable was attached to the ceiling on a wire so that you can move back and forth with all these wires connected to you when you have the Oculus.
So you had to be plugged into the computer, actually. But now you're not.
Now it's just on your head. And now it's fucking resolution.
It's pretty goddamn good. And it's weird.
Like you do things like you can go to a comedy club and you sit in the audience and there's all these other people in there. There's a comedian on stage.
It's fucking strange. There's all these little online games you can play with other people, 3D shooters and shit, and you get goggles on.

You feel like you're in the game.

It's real weird.

And most people are kind of freaked out by it.

So I don't think it's like they went with that whole meta thing.

They thought everybody was going to dive into the metaverse. But I think there's this uncanny valley between like you put the goggles on and you're in the world and you kind of feel it.

You feel uneasy

like this is weird this feels weird vr feels strange like a lot of people make some dizzy

they want to take it off yeah my wife is like that yeah mine is too but i think they're going

to get to a point where it's not going to feel weird like there's some commercial applications

like there's a company called sandbox and they have this fucking amazing game called deadwood

mansion and deadwood mansion you go into like there's a warehouse space they have one in Austin they have one in Woodland Hills where we used to go was right down the street from the studio you put goggles on and all of a sudden you're in a mansion you got a shotgun and zombies are running at you from everywhere and you're boom you're blowing their heads seriously oh yeah okay it's fucking amazing dude no one in my family wants to play it anymore. Why? Is it too intense? I get very intense.
Very intense when I'm killing zombies. They don't like it.
It's gross. I'm like, come on! Let's kill zombies.
Like, for Father's Day, I made them come kill zombies with me. I fucking love it.
That was your Father's Day present? Yeah, yeah. Daddy wants to kill zombies with everybody.
It's fun. fun you got a shotgun and they're running out you're blasting their heads off and you get attacked from behind it's fucking awesome you have a haptic feedback vest and you see red when they're attacking you you see black splatters of red in front of your face and they're attacking you're shooting them in the face everybody wants to do that dude oh everybody wants the day i mean yeah if we were like oh we're in a zombie apocalypse.
How many dudes do you know? They're like, oh my God, awesome. Awesome.
This is going to be fun. They're so slow.
They're so slow. But these ones are pretty fast.
The ones in this, some of them run at you. They run at you.
Yeah. It makes it more fun.
Remember that movie, 28 Days Later, where the zombies were running? Yeah. That's the scariest zombie movie.
Yeah. Running zombies, that's the real zombie.
The Walking walking dead zombies get the fuck out of here bitch you ain't getting me so disappointing like the first like five seasons were great how are they not all dead but how are not all the zombies dead they all walk a half a mile an hour more and more zombies how's that possible kill them all it's so easy to kill them i can't love them. I love the post-apocalypse zombie.
You know what I don't like? Daryl using field tips. So stupid.
Why is he using field tips on his crossbow? That drives me crazy. That drives me crazy.
And he's like pulling them out, loading them back up, and you're like, dude, come on, man. You're making me angry.
You don't lose any fletchings?

You don't get any pass-throughs?

No pass-throughs.

It's all just, like, sticking in their heads.

Like, what the fuck are you talking about?

What the fuck are you talking about?

This is the dumbest weapon ever.

Yeah, Daryl.

That fucking field tip's got to go, son.

You don't have any broadheads?

You got to put, like, a solid, like, tri-blade or something on there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, get some good, like, get a a really good.
A muzzy trocar. Yeah.
That's what you want. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, like a Montec. One of those Montec carbon steels.
Yeah. Send it.
What was that one? The Hyde? What was that? Yeah, the Hyde. God, dude.
Yeah, man. That did a lot of damage.
Yeah. I'm very impressed with that one.
Because that one, I got the 125 grain one, which has the steel ferrule. And it's got a two-inch cut with the mechanical blade and a three-quarter inch cut with the fixed.
So it doesn't make a big hole opening going in. So you're two and three quarters? This is all technical talk, ladies and gentlemen.
Yeah, two and three quarters. It's a broadhead for archery.
When it goes in, that's when the blades open. So the R the rage which I used to use for the T2 now the Dudley version that opens up on the way in so it leaves a big hole all the way in but this one opens up inside so really you're penetrating with the fixed head and then once you're passing in the pressure is what makes the other two blades go so it really makes a pretty small entry hole hole.
But the exit hole is a crime scene. The exit hole was a crime scene because you're going out with two and three quarter inches.
It's just instant death for the animal. It's like super ethical.
I think when it comes to the amount of damage they can do, those mechanical, they put animals down so quick so quick

yeah there's something to be said for that giant

cut that they make inside it's just so

different like

cams cams he's using a

catapult it's basically a catapult

yes that four blade carnivore

thing that's insane

but cam changed my life

like he really did he was like create a really

big hole yeah because I don't care what you

do just create a giant

hole and that's

Thank you. But Cam changed my life.
Like, he really did. He was like, create a really big hole.
Yeah. Because I don't care what you do.
Just create a giant hole. And that's because you're going to put the arrow in the right spot.
If you create a giant hole, then you're going to have a great blood trail. Yeah.
And you're going to find your animal. He rewrote my entire hunt sequence this year.
Because you were, before that, you were penetration. Yeah.
Right. Which is another way of looking at it, right? If you're thinking about a cut, a cut that goes through the entire body is a very long cut and is always lethal if you get them in the vitals.
Yep. But you don't get a blood trail and they don't die as quick.
No. The dying is quick thing is the one in Tahone last year, that bull died in like less than 10 seconds.

I mean, how many seconds was it?

Seven, if that, maybe five. It ran up to the top of the hill and just fell down.

I've never seen anything die that fast.

And that's those big mechanicals.

And I'm not saying that because, you know, you're Joe.

Like, you're just the dude on the side of the mountain that was shooting the elk that i was watching like it fucking died faster than anything i've seen even shot with a rifle and the chest cavity right right so clearly differentiating between like a headshot yeah a headshot and a chest cavity i've never seen anything die that fast from an animal it was dead, I think there's something to be said for those giant holes. Because it's just, especially if you have a strong bow.
So if you have a bow that has a lot of kinetic energy and a lot of speed. And you're shooting a heavy arrow and it's hitting that rib cage.
Like, there's something for that big cut. It just stops them dead.
Because are you at 80? 84. 80 or 84? Yeah.
The new bow's 84. Oh, the new Hoyt is so smooth.
Like that's. Oh, it's so smooth.
I got it. So they just came out yesterday.
Yeah. I got to go find the new one.
I felt so special. I had one for a couple months and I had to blur it out when I took pictures.
I know. Blur it out.
I know. I felt like such a chump.
I was out there day on. It's like I just got the old one.
It's not a big deal, man. Well, I used to think that when I saw Cam shoot his, I'm like, how can it be better? These are so good.
How can they be better? And then you shoot the new one, and you're like, goddammit, it's better. It's super accurate, like so dead in the hand.
The way the shot breaks, they keep making it smoother, smoother draw cycle, it's faster. So you're doing 84.
Yeah. What are you Garmin? What's your feet per second on it? Oh, it's 293 or 294.
So what are you shooting, 450? 475. 475? Yeah, I bumped it up because I went to those 125 grain heads.
But my bow went from 80 pounds to 84 with the new one, and then it kind made up the difference so the 25 grains and it was basically the same kind of speed as with uh the last one which i had a 450 grain arrow so this is like uh i think there's probably like a number you shouldn't go below i don't know what that number is you know like grains like some people they'll hunt elk with like a 300 grain arrow and a lot of people don't do that. You can get away with it.
Because like, well, my daughter shot an elk and it was a pass through and she's got a 50 pound bow. Okay.
She got lucky. She got lucky.
You need some force to get in there. Like if you're shooting 500 on an 84 pound, 85 pound bow.
So let's say you're doing, even if you're doing 270, that's still massive penetration. Yeah, massive kinetic energy, especially if you have carbon arrows.
Yeah. I love those carbon arrows with the victories with the slick outside because you pull them out of target so much easier.
Who's making those? The VAPs. Okay.
What are they called? The TKOs? Yeah, I love those things. RIP TKOs, that's it.
Yeah, RIP TKOs. Yeah.
Those are great. Their coating that they have on it is like, it's so easy to put out.
They got like a Teslon or some shit on them? Yeah, but you got to think that aids in penetration too. It has to, right? I mean, isn't that why guys like the thin diameter? Like Cam shoots those.
I don't know if he's doing it now, but he was for a long time was shooting those four millimeter arrows right those real skinny ones but the four mil i like lighted knocks and the four millimeter with the lighted knocks make me nervous like the rocks because knocks break sometimes and they're more vulnerable because they get that little light inside of them instead of being a big solid piece of plastic right you know like i always change them before hunts i always put fresh ones on i never trust ones that have been sitting around never trust ones that i've shot already i'll shoot them a bunch of times like for practice but they break sometimes and especially i'm not paying attention so i might be accidentally touching arrows i do the same thing like i have fresh arrows for hunting yeah but they're the exact same setup for practice so that's why i like like the sever or something like that because the severs you can pin them and then i can just shoot the shit out of those and then just not not use the pin yeah no that's huge that's why i like them because i can shoot the same exact weight and dimensions and i know the flight characteristics are going to be the exact same versus sometimes when you get those, um, practice heads. Yeah.

They're different. They actually have different flight characteristics because the way that they're put together is not exactly the same.
And I believe in the fact that it's like, hey man, if you got a slight fin on the front and it's a different fin on the back, even though it's only inch you still have to be 100 consistent to maintain the same flight character yeah that's why when guides get real nerdy about like what helix like what kind of helical you have on the veins and like what kind of twist you put your veins and you have to have the uh you know a single bevel blade that twists for the broadhead in the exact same direction.

Don't get a right twist with left veins. Then you'll get all fucked up.
But their idea is that you're trying to get the broadhead to spin through the animal. That's the whole idea behind the single bevel.
Do you think that's true, though? There's something to it. Yeah, there's something to single bevels because of the cut, the way the edge is cut.
So for people listening, single bevel means the edge angles in on one side. Double bevel means it comes together as a point, right? So think of a blade, but a blade with only one side that you can, you know, you see like where the steel is ground down to the edge.
The other side doesn't have that. So the idea is that that creates this angle and that when you're spinning, your arrow is spinning because the helicals of your vein, it goes into the animal's body cavity and the bevel in the broadhead accentuates that spin.
And it continues that spin through the body causing like a whirlwind of trauma inside the animal. And that it almost affects, acts as multiple blades because because it's kind of spinning around It's not just cutting a straight line.
It's twisting But the question is like how much twist and is it more effective to have like a four blade thing Like a four like a tooth of the arrow like one that you get you know those are I don't think it's true You don't think it's been the the bevel spin. I don't think it does I think it does a little because there's a guy named Lusk Archery, and he does these tests on these things, and he actually shoots them into ballistic gel, and you can see them spin.
So some of them do spin. But the whole— I think it's too complex, though, because once you have a rib cage— Right.
And let's just say— You go through the ribs and stops it. Even the consistency of the rib cage.
So we'll just say a perpendicular shop from the rib cage right and let's just say you go through the even the consistency of the rib cage so we'll just say a perpendicular shop in the perpendicular shop from the rib cage right at 40 yards so i'll just keep all the variables basically the same even then there's no nicking of the rib there's no variation of the actual animal skin there's no uh slight quartering way start courting towards there's no so ballistic jail i think there leaves a lot of questions for me so even though it's twisting in the ballistic gel because it's consistent you're shooting it directly perpendicular into a very consistent format.

Yeah.

And you're getting a consistent result.

You're not going to get a consistent result.

I just don't believe you're going to get a consistent result through a rib cage. Well, that's the reason why a lot of people like mechanicals.

It's one of the things that they say is that the cut is so large when you get into the body cavity that you take out all the other variables.

Yeah.

It's going to do so much more trauma than something that's just a slit blade that, let's say you do hit that rib cage, and it does slice. It only hit one lung because it deflected off of it, and it doesn't spin at all, and now you lost the animal.
Whereas you get a mechanical, it goes in there. It creates this massive fucking hole.
It does all this trauma going through two and three-quarter inches of trauma going to the animal. The odds of that animal surviving are gone.
If you get you get him in the body cavity they're gone And I've seen people hit people with really good shots with small broadheads and not do much damage to the point where the animal runs off They have a hard time blood trailing it It's even if the animal dies 30 minutes 60 minutes later You might have a hard time finding it especially if you bumped it. 100%.
I've had that exact experience multiple times.

With those little broadheads.

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cam, like I said, he changed the entire...

What he thought about it.

Yeah.

Because he's like, created a big hole.

Well, he changed his thought about it too.

He was always a fixed blade guy.

Always.

Yeah.

And then who told him to do that? Oh, Wayne did from the bow rack. yeah wayne said you got to try these carnivores so just trust me just try them it's like these things are crazy yeah it opens up these four blade catapult it looks like it looks like one of those uh turkey broadheads you know what i mean that's what it looks crazy and because the design is just opens up from the front.
Yeah. So once it's inside, then it's doing all its damage.
So you don't have to worry about it getting destroyed going in through rib cages and stuff as much as you do with other things. Because it's really just going to get a little hole going in.
And then once it's in, then it's opening. It's kind of a perfect idea.
The only thing that people don't like, like Dudley doesn't like, it doesn't leave a big hole in the outside like i talked to dudley about it he's like i want extreme trauma i just want extreme i want it one big giant cut with all that energy just going through the like he's think of it like sticking a samurai sword yeah like through the the animal's body right and you know obviously he's one of the best bow hunters on earth too. So like, there's a bunch of different philosophies on it, but I think the idea of the mechanical blade is legit.
And I like the hybrid idea the best, because then you always have a fixed blade no matter what. I like the, I like the hybrid.
Obviously this year was great because I like the hybrid a lot more than what going either pure mechanical or pure fixed. Yeah.
You feel like a little insurance policy yeah yeah it's like the best of both worlds you're like okay cool let's uh let's let's keep consistent with this and everybody i talk to you know they have well throughout the past year several years they have all different opinions which is broadheads are like you know assholes everybody has a fucking different opinion and you know john has his opinion cam has his opinion everybody has their opinion like my buddy dan uh elk shape do you ever watch that sure yeah yeah he's got his opinion all these guys have opinions so i'm just trying to like and they're all successful too exactly that's the crazy thing it's like you're trying to sort it out like who's right. And so I'm just trying to like.
And they're all successful too. Exactly.
That's the crazy thing. It's like you're trying to sort it out.
Like who's right? And so I'm just trying to like create the data and put it down into what works for me. And I don't have any sponsorships.
So I'm just. Right.
Which allows me to be fairly empirical in the way that I'm actually selecting the criteria. But I also don't have the reps these guys do either.
So you have to kind of rely on their data and then collect all of it and then kind of put it in one case, if that makes sense. Yeah, no, absolutely.
I'm always fucking around with things. That's one of the cool things about archery is all the tinkering.
There's so many different things you could try. Like this year is the first time I tried a 15-inch front bar.
You know, I went to a 15-inch front bar with a 12-inch back bar. Ooh, I like it so much better.
Really? Yeah, because I was using that Quivalizer, and the problem is with wind, it's a sail. That sail just pushes your pin around too much.
Bro, I love that guy, though. Oh, yeah.
I love that guy. Look, the Quivalizer, I've used it for years.
It's a great invention. But I find that with wind in particular, the balance that I would get from that Equivalizer, I can get from that.
I'm using a cutter stabilizer with a 15-inch front bar and a 12-inch back bar. Right.
And it's perfect. It holds so good.
It holds so nice. It feels so dead on.
And this year, I went with a 10-degree downward angle of the front bar. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that.
Why did you go with it down versus what matters whether or not it's perpendicular to the ground? I know, it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense.
But I was talking to these archers who do it, and Levi Morgan does it. His goes at a downward angle too.
And I was talking to this archer and he said it actually, for some reason, it helps you hold better. Like, it locks in better.
Really? Yeah, the slight downward thing with when you're pulling back, there's something about the slight downward angle of it that it lets you hold better with the same amount of weight. Right.
Because it's going in a different direction than just straightforward. It doesn't totally make sense, but I really believe in it.
Like, when I started doing it, I was like, ooh, there's a little different feel to this. I Love that I love all the tinkering.
No, I love the tinkering. That's my favorite thing It's so much fun because it's it's like There's all these different ways to do it You know there's all these different releases is all these different styles of releases There's so many different things you can fuck with you could just go down a rabbit hole after rabbit hole.
You know? That's what I did. You and I, I would say like 90% of their texts are around releases.
What release were you saying? Yeah, like what release am I doing? And I went, I think I bought 20 releases this year. Like over the course of 23, 24 after, you know, the hunting season.
And it's fun. It's just pure fun because, okay, dude, I know I got it.
It's like 250 bucks. Sure.
You buy a release and I, I fuck with it for, you know, a couple of weeks. I get the pros and cons about it.
And then I pass it over to the guy that runs my little bow shop there, Black Rifle, Isaac. I pass it off to him.
I'm like, sell it on eBay. I don't give a fuck about those things.
I got a box of them. Yeah.
I got a box of different releases. I've tried everything from four finger releases to two finger releases.
What I really like is that one with the clicker that onyx of the clicker

It's got this little click and then I feel like I can shoot that as good as I can shoot a hinge So you get the best of both worlds you get like the ability to make it go off if you have to you know If there's some weird situation where you know, there's you have like a literal a split second to make a very close shot You can get away with that or you could shoot at a long distance target and feel just as comfortable as you do with a hinge. You know, because there's something about having that little click and that Onyx clicker.
Like once you feel that little click, you know it's about to go off and you just pull through it. It's so funny.
I'm the exact opposite. I hate that fucking click.
Like when I'm'm on the click i'm like click like i just wanted to go off i just wanted to go off it does fuck with your head but one thing it does is it puts all your concentration in the shot process instead of like hammering the trigger right just saw you hear that click you know it's right there yeah you just pull through it and it's so it's such a delicate little click that once you get it in your head and you shoot with it a bunch of times, you welcome it.

Like, there we are.

Click.

Come on.

Oh, okay.

So you're like looking forward to it.

Yeah, and then the click is like settling.

We're right there.

Blah.

And it's like that one extra step that gives you this one extra little piece of concentration.

Joel Turner talks about it in that whole Shot IQ process, and he developed it.

He developed it on X Clicker.

Oh, he developed that? He developed it, yes. Oh, shit.
Okay. Cool.
So that one little thing, that one little click is what separates it from a regular trigger, and then blah, pow. And then you get all your thought process into the shot process, and just making sure you do a good shot.
Huh. Okay.
All all right i've used it i it's a thing you got to get used to like everything else like but then you talk to cam haynes he just fucking hammers that trigger i know shoots everything so it's like some people can't do it that way it's it's weird everybody's got a different way they like to do it it pisses me off so bad because i see like some of my buddies like um do you know doing Chris Jensen is the country music singer if you were like he and I've hunted together a few times in Colorado he's hammers the trigger it's the craziest thing you've ever seen in your life it's just like ow like that's kind of how Kim does it and I look at that touches off He does that. Touches off the trigger.
I look at him every time. I'm like, oh my God, man.
How are you hitting the target? And he's like, just center mass just over and over again. I think it's a mind fuck that a lot of people put their head into that you're going to get target panic and that you can't control your emotions during the shot process to the point where you could command trigger.
But that doesn't make any sense to me. No.
It doesn't make any sense from like, I can understand the psychological aspect of target panic, but I have a feeling that it comes from two different things. It comes from buck fever, which is like, you're freaking out.
You never shot a buck this big before. Oh my God, he's right there.
And you're like, ah, and you freak out. That's normal.
But that's an experience thing. And you have to learn what that is.
And if you do it a bunch of times, then you get to the point where, like, oh, I know how to control myself. I know what this is.
And the more often you do it, like, if you can go on a couple of pig hunts and then go on an elk hunt, you're way more in the groove. You're, like, right there.
You know what to do. You know how to do it.
And you could touch the trigger off 100%. Cam does it every goddamn time.
I think it comes from the target archery community. because i think those guys are staring at these fucking little tiny x's from 20 yards and they got to shoot 30 of them in a row right and i think you're you get mind fucked and that's why those guys have hinges and all these crazy and 40 inch fucking stabilizers and v's that come out the back and it's all about not moving plop pl that's not bow hunting.
And we were talking about this, that I think the difference between bow hunting and target archery is like the difference between doing free throws and playing basketball. Right, right.
Yeah, yeah. Free throws, nobody's fucking with you, you're on the line, you can measure it, you can sit there, and you can throw it.
Different sport. Basketball, you're running around.
You got to, people are trying to block. Different sport, same sub skill set.
Right, that's hunting. Hunting is basketball.
Target archery is free throws. That's what I think.
Yeah. That's what I think.
And I think you can't tell a guy like Cam Hayes is doing it the wrong way. If the best guy does it that way, you have to go, okay, why do we think you can't do it that way? Well, it it's all psychological it's all panic it's all not being able to control your nerves if you can shoot perfectly that way at a target you should be able to shoot perfectly at an animal you should be able to the different it's not the animal isn't like some fucking invulnerable thing that like you have to do it a certain way or the frequency is not correct no it's an animal it's like just like a target the army marksmanship team is not Delta Force like that's like right right very different very good shooters army marksmanship team probably extremely proficient shooters maybe even better so than Delta however it's a different scenario based activity completely different yes yeah yeah just because you shoot accurate at a stationary target doesn't mean you understand how to the freak out when you have a yeah a horse coming in with swords on its head the freak it's a fucking different thing man screaming it's like ah.
It's like, ah, I'm super horny.

I'm going to fuck you.

I'm going to kill you.

I don't know.

And you're like, ow. Could you imagine if you came over from Europe and there was no elk over there and you were camping in the woods? You were one of those first guys in your stupid fucking burlap tent.
and you hear

you'd be like demons

this fucking

you don't know

you're like

is this thing gonna

is it gonna run me through

it sounds like it's 100% going to kill you. I would be more scared of that than a bear.
Yeah. Because it has giant swords on its head.
Well, if it runs straight at you and just impales you. I had one come in this year.
I'd be more scared of a bear, though. I feel like I'd grab an antler.
If I hadn't seen any one of these before, and something comes in, and it's got giant pointy things on its head, and I'm trying to be completely blank slate, and I've got this other fuzzy thing that I can't really see its claws and teeth, I'd be like, my God, I'm way more afraid of this thing with swords on its head. Depends on the size of the bear.
Depends on what kind of bear we're talking about. Yeah.
Like if it's a little black bear, I don't give a shit. Black bears are weird.
I don't care. I don't care about those things at all.
Like it's so, they're kind of obnoxious. Do you see that one that got shot in New Jersey that's 880 pounds? Yeah, yeah.
770 pounds dressed? It's fucking crazy. In New Jersey.
Dude. In New Jersey.
That's a bust. In the East Coast.
How is that possible? They have the most. They have the most black bears per capita in the whole country.
We've played a hundred times the video of the bears wrestling in the middle of a neighborhood in Far Rockaway. Big fucking black bears.
Just going to war in the middle of the street. I had a...
I grew up in this middle of the logging community out logging community out in the middle of nowhere. And there was this dude that used to keep, it's Wii I Pied Oats out in the middle of nowhere, dude.
It's like, so Hill Jack. But it's awesome.
And my grandfather, everybody, they're all hardcore loggers. But, I'm not exaggerating, we had a guy, just outside of town, that a pet bear, a pet black bear.
How old was it? I mean, it's a full grown fucking black bear. Oh my God.
And he would just, this is the sad part. Like he had like defanged it because it would slobber on people.
Oh God. And, but he had a full on black bear that would suck on his arm basically.
Oh, God. He had a full-on black bear that would suck on his arm, basically.
Oh, Jesus. He fanged a couple people accidentally? He what? He fanged a couple people accidentally? Playing with them? Yeah, yeah.
Oh, God. So he made them gummy.
Yeah, gummy. What did he feed it? Who the fuck knows, man? Donuts.
Like, when I say this, these are loggers.

Yeah. I tend to like, you know, turn down the volume on my redneck upbringing.
How did he keep this thing in his yard? Yeah. We would drive by it on our way to another town and he had a fucking bear in his front yard in a cage.
It was insane, dude. Oh no, I thought it was just running around.
No, no. He kept it in a cage? Big cage.
Just imagine. He never let it out? No no he'd let it out all the time he's like fucking walking around like the guy was a complete insane person oh my god and my uncle my great uncle is like 80 years old great complete crazy person too taught himself how to how to fly back in the day came back from world war ii he was on um navy he was a navy ship ship guy taught himself how to fly he would fly around this piper super cub and back in the day you you get a bounty for cougar tails so he had a walker hound and he would put him in the front seat of his Piper Super Cub,

and he would fly around looking for tracks, land his plane in the middle of fucking nowhere,

kick his dog out.

So he'd tell me these stories, and I mean, I hunted with this guy forever.

And the dog would find the bear?

Yeah.

He'd punch him out on the bear or the cougar or whatever it was.

Tree it.

Tree it, shoot it with a .22 Hornet, because his whole thing was you let them bleed out in their lungs and then they'll fall out of the tree you don't want to shoot them with too big of a caliber because it knocks them out of the tree and they run around if you shoot them with small caliber and penetrates both lungs their lungs fill up oh they drown and they fall out jesus christ this is what what, like, my Cecil Ball

was my uncle back in the...

Did he have a backup gun?

Oh, yeah. This guy was completely

insane. He had, like, when I was hunting

with him... Because I wouldn't be comfortable with a cougar and a 22.

Dude, this guy

was 80 years old when I was hunting

cougars with him back in

like, the panhandle, Idaho.

And he would tell me stories, and I would

only go hunting with him to listen

to the stories, because they were the best

I'm going to go. Dude, he was a complete insane person and he was telling me this other story and these are like the the summarized version that the the the cliff notes of it but dude he would bay cougars in the middle of the mountains by himself he's fly his plane land in the middle of the snow find a spot for him, bay cougars.
And he had this cougar up in this log jam above a creek. And he was telling me this cougar had tucked himself underneath the logs above the creek.
And there was snow on top of the logs. There was logs.
And then he was like crawling in underneath in the middle of the mountains with like a 357 snub nose. He climbed into the cougar tent? Yes, because he's like, this cougar is eating my dogs, and he's like reaching around.
My uncle, who had like three strokes by the time that I was talking to him, he's like, and he'd stutter a little bit. He's driving like 80 miles an hour around like crazy logging roads in the middle of nowhere.
I'm white knuckling his Toyota Tacoma with cougar hounds in the back of the Toyota going, oh my god, I'm gonna fucking die any moment. And he's like, yeah, and I got my, you know, he's like, he had a slight stutter.
Pull out his snub nose 357 like a gangster and reach underneath the logs and start pulling the trigger once he found the right fur between the cougar and his dogs.

Oh, my God. This dude was completely insane when it came to doing things.

This is my uncle.

This is like the guy that I'm like hanging out with. He reached into the logs and felt his way to the cat? Yes.
With a snub nose, whatever, you know, 357. Oh my God.
To kill the cougar because he was pulling up his dogs and eating his dogs.

Oh, my God.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Holy shit.

Like, when you talk about where I grew up and, like, the guys I grew up with, because I, you know, I'm a Green Beret, you know? It's like, oh, you fucking pussy.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, you're not, like, walking around in the woods with a saw on your back, you know? And I'm like, yeah. Just jumping on planes, I guess.
That's hilarious. They look down on it like that's an easy job.
You're not a fucking lumberjack like us. You're not a fucking lumberjack.
You're kind of a pussy. That's so crazy.
I'd go home. My dad would make fun of me like isn't it interesting that there's like levels of Discipline and hard work in the world like there's there's like if you want to be a logger There's no easy logger job.
They don't exist. That is a hard fucking job.
Those are hard men Yes, yeah, you want to be a logger and you're gonna do it for 30 years You're gonna chop and carry trees for 30 fucking years You're gonna be living in the woods chopping and carrying three trees for 30 fucking years and like falling trees Wrapping oh yeah big cables around them and they'd be like oh you carried a backpack through the woods and that's pretty cool i mean you think about the different like groups of people that live these extreme lives and how many people are at the coffee shop with blue hair that are totally oblivious and they think hard work is like you know i'm dealing with my trauma and i'm going i'm going to starbucks today to protest It is a guy with a log on his back and he's 75 years old and he can't wait to get off work so he can kill cougars with a pistol. With a fucking .357.
And we all exist on the same landmass. Yeah.
Some dude that looks like he's like building bikes in the 1800s with the fucking curly comb mustache it's like waxed up and you've got a another guy that's like 80 years old that's had three strokes it's driving around in the mountains it's running up a mountain at a six minute mile chasing his dogs to go kill a cougar nah not the same person of priorities. You know what I mean? Well, there's probably a lot of those guys back in the day.
I bet that was a common type of human in like 1820. Yeah.
But you ran it all. That was like how you had to stay alive.
You know, you lived to be about 40. Then you had a stroke.
Everybody died. Nobody got any vitamins.
Eating fucking cornmeal and gruel and trying to eat squirrels. You're barely getting by.
Like you're eating a bear. That's how fucking nasty.
They preferred bears. Yeah.
That's what's crazy. Apparently, they thought it tasted like beef.
They cooked a lot of bears. God.
That's fucking gross, dude. Some of them were gross.
The grizzlies, apparently, are super gross. I asked, Cam just released a new video, Redemption, a grizzly bear hunt.
Yeah, yeah, I saw it. And it's good.
Great video. But he ate the bear.
I was like, how did it taste? He's like, it was okay. And then I talked to James.
He's like, it was fucking horrible.

Horrible.

It's horrible.

It tastes disgusting.

But black bear didn't taste that bad if you get it from a good spot.

Apparently, like Ranella says, that blueberries, bears that have been eating blueberries are the best tasting meat ever.

But I think that's also relative to bear meat.

So they're saying.

No, he says it's like a great tasting meat, period.

I don't believe him. I don't believe him.

I don't believe him.

You don't think if it was like

flavored with like

all they ate was blueberries?

I think the problem is

they eat so much rotten shit.

Yeah.

And that affects the way they taste.

But I think if they're eating

only blueberries,

like, did you ever see his video?

Mm-hmm.

With the blueberry fat?

Yeah, yeah.

It's like purple fat.

It's crazy.

He said that's delicious.

He said it's so delicious.

I believe him. I love Steve.
You think he's a fucking liar. I love Steve.
He's awesome. He's so much fun to hunt with, and he's so, but I just firmly disagree with him on the store.
I'm like, bro, like, no. What is the best tasting game animal for you? Moose.
Moose. Moose.
Interesting. 100%.
That's a good one. And for me or for my kids moose is the only game animal my kids are like yeah really yeah they are 100 chips in they look forward to it not only do they look forward to it they request it it's the only game meat that's interesting that's very interesting like i can eat elk but i'm'm the only one at the table eating elk.
Interesting. Yeah.
I only shot one moose ever, and I ate it, and I remember it was good. But that was with Ben O'Brien like 10 years ago.
But I haven't had a lot of experience with it. For me, it's axis deer and elk are the two best ones.
Elk first, axis deer second. Yeah you like Axis? I love Axis.
It's crazy what it tastes like, right? It doesn't taste like a deer. No, it's beef.
This is a totally different kind of animal. It's not even beef.
It's like a clean... It's almost sweet.
Yeah. It's a clean beef.
Yeah. It's an interesting flavor.
And the fact that they have so many of them in Hawaii, like that Maui Nui Venison Company, for people want to buy wild game, you can get actual wild game from Maui Nui Venison. They'll ship you Axis deer.
Frozen, they have meat sticks. It's fucking great.
I'm not affiliated with them. I know the owners, but I don't have anything to do with them.
But it's a great company. And they're doing something that you actually have to do.
There's no natural predators on Maui. So they have to shoot these Axis deer.
They're're fucking everywhere. They're like, they're rodents, basically.
And they're a delicious rodent. It's a crazy animal to hunt, too, because they grew up with tigers.
So they evolved with tigers, so they moved so fucking fast. They're the fastest animal I've ever hunted.
I shot a doe at 30 yards bedded, and she dodged the arrow. It doesn't even make sense.
They move so fast. It doesn't even make sense.
I started shooting them longer distance away because the arrow's quiet, and they can't hear the string slap. Yeah.
So they can't hear the bow. So I started just shooting them a little bit further away.
They still hear that. the only way.
If you, we stopped hunting them in the day because in the morning there's no wind. We started hunting them only in the afternoon because there's more wind and the wind at least covers a little bit of it.
But Dudley got video of me shooting this saxist deer at 80 yards and it's a perfect shot. Perfect.
It's going right to the vitals at 80 yards. Perfect break.
And then 10 yards, the arrow's 10 yards from me, he goes and he's gone's gone within 10 yards he was gone he was nowhere near where the arrow hit what he moved out of the way he heard the arrow coming and he moved out of the way 10 yards from there's a video of it slow-mo video because it's a lighted knock you see a perfect line headed straight for his vitals and then gone gone not even. Not even close.
Not even close. Like a bullet.
I missed him by like a whole quarter. He was gone.
He just ran away. They hear things, they think a tiger's coming.
They just go. They just go.
It just makes you feel so slow. When you watch they move you're like people suck we're so fucking clumsy and soft and we're so vulnerable my back hurts ow my my arrow that's moving it you know 300 feet per second it has no chance no no chance no chance yeah especially if they see the bow go off or they hear the bow go off they're gone and they're.
And they're everywhere in Texas, too. That's the wild thing about Texas.
You could just bring whatever you want in. You want zebras? You can bring zebras.
You had zebras? I know I did. You could have fucking zebras.
My wife saw a zebra one day when she was driving the kids to school. I know.
I saw a zebra. I think I saw a zebra.
I said, you probably did. Some asshole probably has a zebra.
The zebra got out. My kids would be like driving around like, let's go look at the zebras.
Okay. Let's go look at the zebras.
You could have zebras in Texas. But I love it.
I love it that you can go to like when we went to that place down in South Texas, that ranch that my friend owns. When we went down there, like there's African African animals here.
Yeah. These crazy black bucks and all these different animals are not from anywhere near here, and there's thousands of them.
Like, this is nuts. Well, you shot that, um...
Neil guy. Yes.
Yeah. Yeah, but everybody says that's, like, the best meat ever.
So put it on the scale associated with everything else. I like elk.
It's really good. It's all really good.
All wild game from a healthy animal is delicious, I find. At least undulates.
They're all delicious. I've never found one that I didn't like.
But I still think elk is the best. That's just my...
I like the flavor. Also, I like elk hunting so much.
It means more to me when I'm eating a piece of elk. I think I'm just biased.
I think if there's anything, I just like eating them. I like eating them.
And I also think it's going to sound crazy, but I think you get their spirit. I think there's something about these super potent wild animals that you kill with an arrow and then you're eating it.
You get the spirit of that experience, the spirit of that animal. I think it empowers you in some very strange physiological way.
I really do. I think they're so vitamin rich.
Like they're such athletes. The way they run up a mountain.
Like you're getting these nutrients from that animal that I don't think is like any other animal. Because they're so much stronger than all those other animals.
They just run. They have 900 pounds.
they run right up the top of a mountainside like it's nothing you're like this is crazy you watch them when they get winded and they fucking run over the top of a hill that takes you 40 minutes to to crawl up they just run up it when you eat that thing you're like you just feel it you know you feel it in your your body feels it you get it like a a little boost. Yeah, it's electric.
Yeah. I feel the same way.
I've given it to people that don't even hunt. And they go, dude, I feel so good after I ate this.
I go, yeah, there's something to that. It's superfood.
It is a superfood. My neighbors, when I gave them elk or whatever it is, they're like, dude, this is amazing.
Yeah. Yeah, this is what it feels like to be a hunter.
This is what it feels like to go out, kill something, process it, put in a package, and it's special. It's meaningful.
Yeah. It's the whole celebration, and I hate to say it like that, but it is.
it's meaningful it's the whole celebration and i hate to say it like that but it is it's like this is you said it earlier and actually i wanted to what you call it like a an assassin for your food or something like that supermarket assassin yeah supermarket assassin yeah like this is the difference is over here you think this is One, it tastes tastes different, two there's a definitive meaning you're associating with it. So there's no way that you can tell me that there's not a psychological nutrient connection between those two where it makes something more meaningful and beneficial specifically for you.
There's just no way you can tell me that's not better. Right, like a good meal with people you love, I feel like almost gives you extra nutrients.
Almost like there's an extra good feeling about it. That's why people like eating together.
You know, eating good food that people care about, having fun. The whole experience is better for your overall being.
It's the difference between jacking off in a port-a-potty and eating a meal with your fucking family, right? It's like, there's like a huge difference.

Like one is like the gross and a little bit shameful and disgusting.

And just like one's a Jack's box cheeseburger.

This is an elk that you cooked on your own grill.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

It's a big difference, man.

Yeah.

It's, um, I'm glad I found it.

I'll tell you that.

It's, uh, it's also, it's so hard to do.

You know, we've both had our trials and tribulations, uh, elk bow hunting.

And it's so hard to do. You know, we've both had our trials and tribulations elk bow hunting.
And it's just, it's so difficult to do that the people that do it well, the people that are successful, you know how hard it is to do. You're like, God damn, you pulled it off.
Like that, that's a, hunting elk with a bow in the wild is a real thing. Even in the places we go are better.
They have more elk and stuff. It's always hard, folks.
It's hard. It's always.
The problem with the public land thing is the public. I have so many friends that have terrible stories about guys winding elk on purpose, blowing elk out.
They're all competing against the same packs of elk or the same groups of hunters or competing against the same elk groups. It's like, it's crazy.
It's like these herds of animals are getting like winded on two and three sides because people are like moving in trying to get them. Right.
You know, it's just the ideal situation would be that, I think the ideal situation would be – you know they're trying to do that American – what is it called? The American Serengeti Project. They're trying to rewild a whole section of the country.
They're buying up land and they want to bring back buffalo and bring back all these animals if everybody like at one time in their life could have like some sort of a hunt where they're like someone shows them how to do it someone takes them out they get an animal and they cook and eat that animal if you're a meat eater i think at one time in your life you should try to do that i think that may be the solution for people to understand what it's all about just one time in your life or even go with someone when they're doing it one time just know what that's like because it's a it ignites a little part of your dna that you didn't even know was in there there's like a little part of us that for tens of thousands of years the only way we survived is hunting yeah thousands and thousands and thousands of years just baked into our DNA. And when you're in there and you're in those woods and you got that range finder and that elk is 52 yards away and you see him walking through the bushes and you know you got a window.
And it's like a part of your DNA that just goes, yeah, this is what we're doing. This is what we're doing now.
Lock in, lock in, get the animal, bring it back. There's like some crazy, like ancient primal code.
And I tell people it's the same thing when you catch a fish. When you catch a fish, it's like, oh, oh, oh.
This excitement that you catch a fish, that's built into your code because now you're going to live. You're going to live.
You got food for your family. It's in there, a human reward system.
And that's how we're supposed to get food. We're supposed to appreciate the food because it's hard to get.
That's what it's supposed to be. It's not supposed to be going to the supermarket and look at the ground beef is $5 a pound and fucking...
You never chase anything. You never go kill anything.
You're just sitting there eating your fucking bowl of pasta, watching TV.

It's so easy.

It's so easy, right?

It's not supposed to be that easy.

It's not supposed to be that easy to live.

If it is, you're going to get anxiety.

You're not designed for that.

You're designed for trauma and testing. You're designed for struggle.

You're designed to overcome things. And if you're not ever overcoming anything, you're filled with trauma and testing.
You're designed for struggle. You're designed to overcome things.

And if you're not ever overcoming anything, you're filled with anxiety.

Yeah.

I don't deserve this.

Yeah.

How do I deserve this majestic fucking animal that I just consumed?

I didn't earn it.

No.

I just paid for it, which is weird.

What?

Doing some weird job, and then you got these hitmen out there whacking cows.

Supermarket hitmen.

That's like the best.

That is one of the best quotes I've got.

It is.

I mean, there's nothing grosser in this country than factory farming.

It's the grossest thing ever.

They have laws where you're not even allowed to film it because it's so gross.

No, it's disgusting.

Ag gag laws.

Where you go to jail if you filmed horrific acts.

Which is completely insane when you think about it. Yeah.
When you think about how easy it is to go get your food and people knew, especially meat eaters. I've never quite understood meat eaters that are anti-hunting.
That makes no sense to me, by the way. Makes no sense.
Like zero sense. how can you think that this is a better way where you're caging an animal filling up for full of like hormones and supplemental nutrition in corn and all these things and then you're putting a bolt through its head but i'm not there and then i'm at starbucks protesting yeah yeah yeah i'm not there it's like but you're anti-me this McGriddle got in my hand, but now I'm putting it in my mouth.
Just because I want to actually feel the significance of this event in the context of like, I don't have any bloodlust. I just don't want to be a hypocrite.
Right. It's also one of those things that if you haven't experienced it, you really don't understand it.
And when you're trying to explain it to people they're looking at it from like the cartoon disney version of hunters and movie version of hunters

where they're all cocksuckers dude we should wrap this up because we got to go meet cam for dinner

it's almost six o'clock we've done like dude how many hours do we do