JRE MMA Show #164 with Israel Adesanya

Speaker 0 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!

Speaker 1 The Joe Rogan experience train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

Speaker 1 What's up,

Speaker 1 what's up, what's up, good to see you, my friend.

Speaker 1 What is the chain? What is that? What does that stand for?

Speaker 2 And gay, this is uh, my fight wear brand, Ash Belcastro, started this. Oh, um, he was one of the, I'll say this, he was um one of the only guys who fucked with me before I really like blew up.

Speaker 2 So, when when I was fighting in China and I lost to Alex, they stopped giving me fights. And I had, I think at the time, I was the highest paid foreign fighter in China at the time.

Speaker 2 Probably not now anymore. But then they stopped giving me fights.
And I was like, look, I have seven more fights on my contract. Can I at least just get three?

Speaker 2 I just need three because money was running out. You know, the money I had saved up.

Speaker 2 And then, yeah, I was down to my last one day, like $500.

Speaker 2 And Eugene was holding pads for me. You could see something was up and I just said bro I'm I'm about to be broke this and that radar

Speaker 2 he said don't worry just leave it with me I get home I think I was on the toilet and he just goes check your bank account and I'm sitting there just like

Speaker 2 start crying and I call him he's like no don't thank me thank Ash who started engaged and I call Ash I'm taking a shit and I'm just like thank you

Speaker 2 thank you so much like honestly just in tears because you know I mean I've been there like

Speaker 2 nothing and had everything and nothing again So for me, yeah, he's always been a guy that's been in my corner. And me and Alex Volkonowski now, we, you know, we've helped raise the brand.

Speaker 2 So we own part of the company. So yeah, I like to rep the set.
Oh, that's cool.

Speaker 1 Nice.

Speaker 2 Nice. And I think we, Engage also was

Speaker 2 last Final Three when they had the whole Reebok fiasco. It was Venom, Engage, and someone else.
I can't remember who else. So we didn't get the gig, but it would have been nice, though.

Speaker 1 Oh, the UFC gig? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Engage fight kits for the fighters. But now it's Venom Fight Kits.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the whole fight kit thing is weird. I really preferred it when fighters could have sponsors.

Speaker 2 Condom depot on the back of your shorts.

Speaker 1 I don't like that. I mean, they should probably have some discretion.

Speaker 2 I did like it, though. And I do like the fact now, like the last fight I had, Hunter hit me up way before.

Speaker 2 any gold gloves or anything says Izzy we're going to do this for certain fighters what design would you like on your shorts and I was like bet and I hit up Curtis who works with engage does a lot of the designs and I told him what I wanted.

Speaker 2 And then he just did some custom stuff. And I sent a few to Hunter.
And then, boom, I got my shorts, the Lightning. And I quite like that.
I like expression.

Speaker 2 That's one thing I do miss about boxing or kickboxing is the expression on the Mong Kong, the armbands, the shorts. Like Jonathan Haggerty, like he has cool shorts with golden bows on the side.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I like that. It's cool.

Speaker 1 I do too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I don't like everybody has to wear the same shit.

Speaker 2 I think maybe the USC at the time, they wanted to be

Speaker 2 taken seriously in a sense. So we had to like professional sports.
But nah, I think we're all different independent contractors and we have different styles.

Speaker 2 So I'm glad now they've brought out for certain fighters like O'Malley in his pink shorts, Bryce Mitchell his camo shorts. Yeah.
Let us express ourselves.

Speaker 1 I like that, but I wish fighters had the ability to advertise.

Speaker 2 Oh, big time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's big. Sponsors on your shorts is a lot of money.
Like Shaw was making more money from the sponsors than he was from his fight person.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I agree. And there's a way to bring it back, I'm sure.
But even now, because they've got some,

Speaker 2 you get some kickbacks, but it's better if you can just plaster Condom Depot and get 100 grand on the back of your shorts.

Speaker 1 How much was Condom Depot paying for?

Speaker 2 I don't even know, but I used to think it was funny. And the fact that it was funny

Speaker 2 on the back of the shorts, I'm like, that's placement. Advertising.

Speaker 1 I just feel like, you know, if they didn't like some because it didn't represent the sport like Condom Depot, like, then just fucking, you know, have a list of ones that you agree to.

Speaker 2 That's actually a good idea. Like, say, approve sponsors.
Okay, these guys. Or maybe they go through a check first.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 You want to maybe advertise on the fighter's shorts. You have to go through this rigorous check.
What's your company?

Speaker 2 You know, what do you guys sell? Right. Right or right or right.
And then, yeah, plastered on the shorts, get some money.

Speaker 1 But I do like it when boxers wear cool shorts. You know, they wear whatever the fuck they want.
Like, I love it when Melvin Manhoff would wear those shit.

Speaker 2 Oh, the blackator words.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he was a badass. I like tassels, though.
That's me with my shorts. I always like tassels because when you kick, the way they shimmer, the way they look, and it just, yeah, makes for cool picks.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's just one of the things about the UFC. Just they want everything to be uniform, organized.

Speaker 2 But again, like now at the, for certain fighters, they're changing it, which is good. But hopefully that trickles down.

Speaker 1 I don't feel like anybody should be wearing shorts in grappling. I feel like the temptation for, yeah, tights.
Temptation for grabbing is just too much. And it does happen.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I've seen it.
It It happened to me even with, what's his name? Brunson. And then Brunson, he grabbed my tights.
And I was like, yo, that's two times you've done it now.

Speaker 2 So it is tempting, but I think tights would be the best way to fight. But again, some guys

Speaker 2 have cool shorts. And

Speaker 2 if that's their style, that's their style. Because some people, I guess maybe their body type, maybe they got no ass.
They don't want to be.

Speaker 2 I got something back there, but like, I don't know, a guy like, I won't drop no names, but like, you know, who's wearing tights, you look like a fucking

Speaker 2 stick or something. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you look a little flat yeah yeah that's what it is though yeah it is what it is i mean there's a lot of room for expression it's it's interesting to watch like all the different styles that people promote themselves as well you know like there's so many different ways now and then there's guys like alex who you know he doesn't even speak english and he's risen to the top just based on performance but even the fact that he doesn't speak english that's also his superpower just shama right

Speaker 2 what do you think about that fight this weekend i can't wait i just did the breakdown for it we're about to drop it on youtube now i am picking in this fight alex

Speaker 2 because

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Speaker 2 Look, I was the most active champion in UFC history. I think next to Alex Volkonovsky as well, he was right up there with me, or if not more than me.

Speaker 2 I think Alex now is on his way to being the most active champ in UFC history because he's already saved this year, I think, two or three cards alone. He's like stepped in, be like, Yeah.
Shama.

Speaker 2 Just does a jumpstart.

Speaker 1 And he fights fucked up. He fights injured.
Apparently, his knee was really fucked up in the first Yuri pro-Hoska fight. Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 You know, when he stopped Yuri and then he did like a forward roll off of Yuri? He said he did that because he didn't trust standing on his right knee.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow. Momentum.

Speaker 1 Yeah, his knee was fucked up. So he didn't, like it was fucked up in training camp.
And so when he stepped off of him, he just decided to roll forward instead of putting weight on his right knee.

Speaker 2 That's smart. That's some parkour shit.
But again,

Speaker 2 that's what you have to do. Look, when you get in the UFC, this is what I did as well.
He did it the right way. Fight as much as possible.
Fight as much as possible so you can be in people's faces.

Speaker 2 So they can see that guy just fought. That guy just fought.
Oh, I just saw him fight last month. And you fight as much as you can and you get that momentum behind you.

Speaker 2 And then you you become champion. You're that guy, and then again, you just that momentum constantly.
You're in people's faces, you're getting posted here, here, and that's how you build a stock up.

Speaker 2 So, I've done that, and he's doing it the right way as well. And I think if he keeps going,

Speaker 2 I hope he retires, never getting defeated by anyone ever again.

Speaker 1 Just you,

Speaker 1 and the way you did it, too. Oh, my God.
That was one of the greatest celebrations of all time.

Speaker 2 It just, look, it's it's it's the story behind it. No matter what, it's just the history.

Speaker 2 Because David even mentioned to me, my brother said, like, you know, you're the only one that can actually stand with that guy. Like, no one's lasted more than two rounds or even around with him.

Speaker 2 And I thought about it during the breakdown. I'm like, yeah, you're right.
And it's because I knew him. I've fought that guy so many times.

Speaker 2 And regardless of what happened, I lost three times and I finally won one.

Speaker 2 It was just the fact that I knew I could beat him. Every time I fought him, I was just like, I was...
I was beating him.

Speaker 1 I thought you won the first one.

Speaker 2 I felt so too. But then that's, you know, the Chinese.

Speaker 2 That's the kickboxing, the kickboxing fight they gave it to him and then the second fight in brazil under the same company then he gets me but again i was besting him had him on skates he was

Speaker 2 and then he bro his spirit you know what jerry said about the whole juju thing like that that's real That's real. So the last time I fought him in Miami, look, he beats me.

Speaker 2 That's why I hate when people say, oh, is he scared? He's scared. It's like, bro, I ain't scared of shit.

Speaker 2 The guy beat me in the biggest arena on the planet, Madison Square Garden, same way as the last time he beat me in Brazil in his hometown.

Speaker 2 I was beating his ass, had him hurt in the end of the first round, all that shit, took him down, and then he gets me in the last round.

Speaker 2 It's his spirit, his whatever like ancestors or his people that are praying for him, because I got prayer warriors as well.

Speaker 2 My mom and dad be fasting and they have people like in the spirit room praying for me. But like the way he carries himself, something about him just he knows how to recover well.

Speaker 2 So I just knew I could get him. I could get him.
And then after that, he knocks me out in the biggest arena in the world. And I'm just like,

Speaker 2 let's do that shit again, Dana. Because I just knew, I was like, I can get him.
And then that camp, I was so,

Speaker 2 I went to a different place. And that was the one I kind of mentioned.
I micro-dosed a little bit or macro-dosed a lot.

Speaker 2 And like, I always say this, the shower is the most interesting place on the planet, I feel, because you have the element of water running over your body, stripped naked in your bare essentials.

Speaker 2 You kind of have this, if it's a white shower, you're like a void white space. I can create a lot in there.
I can make a lot of things happen.

Speaker 2 And yeah, one time after one of my showers, I just wrote this thing on my mirror because I just had this premonition, like, this is where I get it done. Like, there's no way.

Speaker 2 You could beat me one time. You could beat me two times.
You might beat me three times. But I was like, nah, this guy's not going to beat me this time.
And I just knew I had to get this done.

Speaker 2 And the way it happened as well.

Speaker 2 Because first round, I think I won. And the second round, I was winning.
But then that fucking leg kick, bro. You know what it is? You look at his foot.

Speaker 2 You look at this bit of his foot.

Speaker 1 It's like a hammer.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 like the back of a hammer or a hammer, like a ballpaper. It is, because that's what he kicks you with as well.
So he doesn't have to, excuse me, he doesn't have to turn the hip over. Right.

Speaker 2 And then when he hits you with that, even because he's bone density, long legs. And he hits you with that, you just feel it like, ooh, that's bad.
And it's a different feeling.

Speaker 2 Because I've been kicked by kickboxers all my life on the thigh on the calf as well. But when he hits you with that bit, it's just the surface area is so small, but it

Speaker 2 travels and transfers through your whole calf. And you're like, oh, I can't put weight on this.

Speaker 1 It's so interesting, too, how he keeps his body completely square, and he doesn't even really turn the hips.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's so it's so sneaky. He doesn't have to because he's got so much bone density, so much whip from that little.

Speaker 2 And yeah, it's dangerous. And I think that's going to be a problem this weekend for

Speaker 2 Khalil

Speaker 1 but I don't know why Chale says he did you hear about what Chal says yeah Chal said he thinks Khalil's gonna knock him out that's possible but I just don't think he's it's possible but I don't think he's gonna get it done because all it takes is one from either side but I just think Pereira right now has just got that momentum behind him and the frame because he's gonna just avoid the shots Khalil's throwing because he just got the long frame and he'll get out right out the way and I don't think Khalil has the reach to mess with him like that so he might have to get inside but uh yeah we'll see this is why paper can't fight paper they have to get in there and fight so we'll find out it's very interesting because khalil's so fast and khalil's had experience with high-level kickboxers when he knocked out gokansaki that was a big one yeah you know that was a big one and that was like early on where everybody's like oh gokan saki is finally in the ufc and then boom khalil just takes him out yeah khalil's fast he hits fucking hard and he throws like that the thing that he did with lionheart he throws that off speed shit sometimes he'll give you a little of this

Speaker 2 and then he jolts in on you that off speed uppercut was nasty it's the looks yeah i'm here i'm almost prince naseem esque but different just like looking looking bang but again he's just violent like when he smells blood he just goes in yeah like i said he beats you like you owe him money or something he's on you he's on you yeah very violent but again i think Khalil, for him to win this fight, he just has to believe in himself.

Speaker 2 And that sounds real cheesy, but believe in himself. Also, he's a southpaw.
I didn't think about that. Right.

Speaker 2 I actually forgot about that till David mentioned it before, but he's a southpaw, so but I'm sure Alex and his team know how to deal with it.

Speaker 2 But I understand how Alex deals with south paws as well, because I can fight him both ways.

Speaker 2 And I know what he, when he, when you give him that front leg and he knows he can get it, he gets more confident.

Speaker 2 But if you're a south paw, he finds other ways to keep you at bay till he can get that leg.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's going to be interesting to see

Speaker 1 right away how Khalil deals with the distance and how Alex deals with the speed. Because the thing is, Alex can be hit.

Speaker 1 And Bruno Silva tagged him a few times. You took him out.
I think the 85 thing was...

Speaker 1 I think the drain for him to make 85 was insanity. I think it was insane.
He's so big.

Speaker 2 He still can't bid.

Speaker 2 He still can.

Speaker 2 Look, it only works until you get knocked out. And it's like, I bet.
And let's go to 205. And I said, look, all these 185ers should thank me, man.

Speaker 2 Honestly, I tell thank me because a lot of the top guys didn't have to fight him. He fought, okay, who did he fight? Strickland.
Strickland. That was one of the only top guys he fought.
Beat him.

Speaker 2 And then I think he got a shot at me next, pretty much. But yeah, fucking Rob, Driggers, all them.
Because it's not about just fighting him. Getting ready to fight him is a different thing.

Speaker 2 But I had to do it fucking four times, so I understand. I have a different thing.

Speaker 1 What's different about getting ready to fight him?

Speaker 2 For me, getting ready to fight him, you just know you're going to be in for a war. You know it's not going to be an easy fight.
Same for him. He knows when he has to fight me.

Speaker 2 It's like it's not an easy fight because he knows what i can do to him but for me as well i was just like

Speaker 2 okay let's go again and again it's not like because i feel that way with certain people but with him it's just a different feeling i guess because he beat me That's another thing because I was like, man, I got to fucking face this demon again.

Speaker 2 All right, bet. Let's face my demons.
And I get myself up to fight him. But it's, it's just getting ready to fight him.
It's just the hurdle.

Speaker 2 I think maybe just because of the history, that's why for me, I felt that way, because of the history. Because to fight someone who's beaten you multiple times, it's like,

Speaker 2 and you know you can beat them in your heart, you just know. But again, that's the beauty of the story.

Speaker 1 Right, you had come so close a couple of times. Every time.
And then even in the first fight in the UFC, so close at the end of that first round. Like you had him.

Speaker 1 If there was 30 seconds left in the fight or in the round, yeah.

Speaker 2 10 seconds left. But again, that's the beauty of the story because then he waited till the fifth round or go to the fifth round.
He's just like did his fucking... Juju, whatever thing.

Speaker 2 And then fucking, he just had this energy. And he came at me.
And then my leg was compromised from the leg kick because of the perineal nerve or whatever. And I couldn't do anything.
So, yeah.

Speaker 2 But look, I love that story for myself. And I'm happy.
And people still go, oh, we need the third one. I'm like, look, I do it again.
I fucking knock him out. Oh, no, okay.
And now it's 3-2.

Speaker 2 We've got a best out of seven. Right.
I'm not fighting for anyone else. I only have so much left in this game.
I'm not going to spend this game fighting one guy

Speaker 1 over and over and over again.

Speaker 2 I don't know how long left, but I just know I'm definitely on the other side of my career. So I want to get these fights out the way.
And now I'm not champ anymore in the UFC.

Speaker 2 So I just get, I'm in this situation where what do I do? I know I want to fight though because I took 11 months off and I let my body heal and all that. And I felt great.

Speaker 2 So now I want to get back to being active. Not as active as I was in the beginning, maybe, but I want to be active.
And I still feel great from the last camp. Did some testing about three weeks ago.

Speaker 2 Find out where we were at. I was about where I was before this last fight, four weeks out.

Speaker 1 So it's okay cool.

Speaker 2 We're still good. Let's build off that.
So yeah, I want to fight again.

Speaker 1 How much of an effect did taking 11 months off have?

Speaker 2 I think it was more good than bad. I know some people say ring rust or this and that.
And I'm like, nah,

Speaker 2 I felt good in there. I felt good in there.
And it was only when I watched the fight back I saw a couple of mistakes I made even on the feet where I was like, ooh. Don't do that again.

Speaker 2 Just with my feet work, my exits. Even David said you had sloppy exits.
I was like, yeah, my bad.

Speaker 2 But yeah, that and then the moment at the end when i slipped and i just the lapse in judgment when i was just letting him know it was me tripping those kind of moments maybe if i was as active it wouldn't have happened but who knows we'll never know but i am happy with how i performed i was happy with the shape i came in i came in really good shape and uh

Speaker 2 what's his name Bill, this guy, he did the numbers for me.

Speaker 2 He said, this is the most active I've been in any fight by far in my my ufc career he crunched the numbers up and said uh my strike per minute rate or whatever all you nerds figure it out you can do your own but yeah he bill smart he's this guy who helps me now with my strength he uh yeah did the numbers and said this is the most active you were so we can do some things different

Speaker 1 um put a little bit more gas in the tank things like that and then just stay active like that it was good and i had fun in there i had fun just exchanging yeah i wanted to ask you about that like the gas in the tank thing because this is a there's a philosophy that Marv Marinovich and Nick Kerson, some of these guys have.

Speaker 2 BJ Penn's coaches.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 what they wanted BJ to do when BJ was in his prime, essentially the camp was entirely based around strength and conditioning. So it was all conditioning to give you this insane gas tank.

Speaker 1 Their philosophy is, you know how to fight. You've been fighting your whole life.
You're not going to get better at fighting in six weeks.

Speaker 1 But what you can get is insane cardio if you only concentrate concentrate on that and it they don't their their thought process is that is the most important thing That is the thing that fails you the most in fights That's the thing that keeps you from hitting the gas keeps you from doing the things you want to do keeps you from being able to scramble out of positions

Speaker 1 But if you can instead of all this fight specific training like put that aside and just give yourself the most fucking insane gas tank humanly possible and then fight and then the margins the things the times when you're going to need it.

Speaker 1 Like your skill level is already elite world championship skill level. It's not going to deteriorate because your cardio gets better in six to eight weeks.

Speaker 1 But what you can do is give yourself this insane base of cardio. So in those moments when you need to hit the gas, you can.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that's what they did for BJ when BJ was at his best.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I think the best I saw BJ from watching him, especially live, he was training with them.
UFC 107, I think Diego Sanchez, he looked like a demon in that.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 Unbelievable gas tank and insane confidence.

Speaker 2 Even in shape, like he was fucking abs, all that.

Speaker 2 I agree. Definitely.

Speaker 2 You can always sharpen the tools, you know, keep it sharp.

Speaker 1 But again,

Speaker 2 when you're in a camp, it's just about getting fit.

Speaker 2 And yeah, there's some things we can tweak so that way we can keep that output. Because when you get fatigued is when you lose

Speaker 2 your lapse in judgment.

Speaker 2 Your reflexes as well. Things like that just start to go down.

Speaker 1 Were you feeling fatigued in the last round with Trickers?

Speaker 2 I don't don't think so there was one point in the third round where me and him we really put it on and we kind of had this like low-key agreement like okay you're fucked i'm fucked let's chill for a little

Speaker 2 and then i think around four i came out like cool bam bam bam and i did that sprawl on them but again he's so stubborn because i sprawled on him like i literally he shot i sprawled and my hips hit the back of his head into the mat.

Speaker 2 It might have rocked him. I don't know.
And then, what's his name? Mark Goda's like, get up. And he's on one knee.

Speaker 2 And then when he was like, get up. And he finally decided to get up slowly.
And I tried to attack him. He just threw.
But not to try and hit me. He just threw just to stop my momentum.

Speaker 2 You know, stop me from coming at him. And yeah, he's a guy that, just strong will.
Strong will.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 2 yeah, I can respect that.

Speaker 1 Physically strong too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, not as strong as I thought it would be. Probably because I felt strong as well.
Like, I packed on some muscle for that fight.

Speaker 1 Preparing for those kind of grueling exchanges?

Speaker 2 Yeah, but even just for me myself, I just wanted to feel strong. So, me and my boy AB, we put on some muscle for that fight.

Speaker 2 And then having Matt actually making good food for me for the first time ever because I got this far off just whatever I wanted to eat, you know, Uber Eats.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we were talking about that when we went to Terry Black's barbecue today.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 This is the worst thing to eat right before a podcast.

Speaker 2 So I got the coffee now. I'm like, yeah, let's go.
We're not digged out.

Speaker 1 We dig out.

Speaker 2 But honestly, for me,

Speaker 2 having those kind of because i'm not 23 anymore 24 right my body doesn't metabolize food and you know the way it used to so i have to i have to think about it like israel be smart uh understand

Speaker 2 your body's getting older no i don't feel old though that's the thing when i was young i thought 34 i'm done with this game then i'm like i'm old but that was when i was 24 but now that i'm here i'm like

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 2 i could still squeeze a lot out of this. I could still squeeze a lot out of this.
So we are. And the whole thing.

Speaker 1 Have you ever used a hyperbaric chamber?

Speaker 2 Nah, not yet. We don't, I don't know if we have that in Auckland.
Probably do.

Speaker 1 I did a whole series when I first moved to Austin. I did the whole series because there's this protocol.
I think it was an Israeli study that they did where they showed that it lengthens telomeres.

Speaker 1 You do like 60 sessions over 90 days. And you know what? They measure your biological age by the length of your telomeres.
It puts 20 years on you. Like, it decreases your age of your telomeres.

Speaker 2 It's telomeres, like the DNA strand or something?

Speaker 1 Well, it's, yeah.

Speaker 1 I don't want to fuck this up. So, what exactly are telomeres?

Speaker 2 Layman terms.

Speaker 1 The way you measure someone's biological age is the length of the telomeres. And through things like NMN,

Speaker 1 I got it right. Yes.
There it is.

Speaker 1 Telomeres are protein and DNA structures at the ends of the chromosomes that perform several important functions, including protecting DNA, promote preserving chromosomal integrity.

Speaker 1 Telomeres help maintain the structure integrity of DNA during replication.

Speaker 2 It's the bit at the ends, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah. And as you get older, they get shorter and they get weaker.
And, you know, so that's where...

Speaker 2 I don't know how I know this. I think it's just a reel.
I saw somewhere.

Speaker 1 NAD shot, when people get NAD infusions, that helps that as well.

Speaker 2 I've been seeing that lately. Like Bieber, the Kardashians getting them.

Speaker 1 I get those. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But with

Speaker 2 Briggs?

Speaker 1 You can do it. Definitely do it with Brigham.

Speaker 1 I use another company. I see.
I see. There's a lot of companies that do it.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Is it Usa Houda approved or is it one of them?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's Usada Approved.

Speaker 2 I'll see you later on Briggs.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but the thing that does it just as well, maybe even better, is hyperbaric chambers. And so hyperbaric chambers, you elevate it up to

Speaker 1 two,

Speaker 1 it's like

Speaker 1 two atmospheres, so twice our atmosphere, and then you have oxygen. You wear an oxygen mask, and you sit in it for an hour and a half.

Speaker 1 And dude, you come out of that and you're just like, woo, like, what the fuck is going on? Like, everything just...

Speaker 2 Every day for six years.

Speaker 1 I've been doing it a lot lately. Okay.
Because I got one at the house. So I've been doing it quite a bit.

Speaker 1 But it's just a completely different way of recovering. I know I found out about it for recovery when Uriah Faber fought Jose Aldo.

Speaker 2 The leg?

Speaker 1 Yes, his leg was... fucking brutalized.
I remember. I saw Uriah was, Uriah was always ahead of the game, and he was using hyperbaric chambers to help him recover.

Speaker 1 And so then I started looking into it, And then I found out about this Israeli study. And then I started seeing all the different ways that hyperbaric chambers can increase your recovery.

Speaker 1 And, you know, TJ Dillishaw did a lot of that as well, I think. But it makes a big impact.

Speaker 1 They always do it, like, when you go down to CPI in Mexico, when they do stem cells, they give people hyperbaric chamber treatments as well.

Speaker 2 Okay. I'd have to look into that.
So if I wanted to do it, I'd maybe do it, say, like, what, twice a week or something? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Something like that.

Speaker 2 And how long does the effect last for?

Speaker 1 That's a good question. Yeah.
I mean, it probably depends on the individual, but it just makes anytime I have something wrong with me, I get in there, I just feel just better.

Speaker 2 I bet you someone knows, if they have one in Auckland now, they'll definitely hit me up and be like, I bet they do.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'd like to try that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I bet Auckland has it. It's time-consuming.
You know, the whole experience is two hours because it has to get up to pressure, then it has to decompress, and you're in there for 90 minutes.

Speaker 1 So it's like 15 minutes getting up to pressure and then 15 minutes of decompressing at the very end. Yeah,

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 that's a great way to recover as well. And there's, I feel like every, especially as you get older, every edge you can get sauna, cold plunge, hyperbaric, everything, every edge you can get.

Speaker 2 Red light therapy, all that. That's where I'm at now.
That's where I was this last camp. And I feel like even the one before that, and the one before that, I just remember thinking like, how can I...

Speaker 2 It was actually Eugene that said, how can you make this camp better? And I'll always find something to do to make this camp better the next one. So that's like the last three camps.

Speaker 2 So this one I took it with the whole having breakfast, having a chef help me actually.

Speaker 1 That was crazy that you used to train with no breakfast. That's so crazy.

Speaker 2 So that was my way, I guess. Then I found out about intermittent fasting and I realized, oh, I've been doing that shit for years.

Speaker 2 I was just doing it by, I guess, laziness or accident. But it actually helps, though.
Like, wake up, have two eggs.

Speaker 2 or maybe he'll make sometimes like something with chia seed but normally eggs and a bacon piece or something and then she needs something yeah something. Just to get the fuel.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And even Jordy from Fight Dietitian, he told me, yeah, you should definitely be having breakfast because he thought like you're crazy training the way you do train.

Speaker 2 And some of my morning sessions as well will be grueling. And then I'll go have breakfast.
But I enjoyed it that way because I felt like more.

Speaker 2 One thing is when I fight, fight day, my body doesn't want to eat. He'll make me like a nice plate of something delicious.
And my body is just like, nah.

Speaker 2 Every, so fight day, I still try and eat something, maybe at least an egg because you'll have pancakes eggs whatever bacon an egg and a little bit of bacon but my buddy just doesn't want to eat because do you think if you force yourself to eat that would be a good thing nah no so i just yeah i think dc said the same thing as well one time he said he likes to fight hungry so that way he gets that edge and i feel that way when it's fight day but when it comes to training now i definitely like to have breakfast i like the way it feels i can like now i've done it for a few months i understand the the benefits of it this episode is brought to you by visible when your phone phone plans are as good as Visible, you've got to tell your people.

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Rated M for mature.

Speaker 2 Of a healthy breakfast before you have a grooning training session.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it just gives you more gas. Yeah.
Mal Joe said that when he fought Pyotr Jan that he didn't eat.

Speaker 2 First or second or one? First.

Speaker 1 And he said he felt like shit.

Speaker 2 Or the day of the fight.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He said, you know, I think the time of the fight, a pushback, I forget exactly what the reasoning was, or he just forgot to eat, or he just wasn't feeling it because the anxiety fighting for the title, you know, the whole deal.

Speaker 1 And he just felt it in the fight. It just was wearing.
And especially with a guy like Al Joe, who cut so much weight. Yeah.
You know, Al Joe is so,

Speaker 1 he was so big for 35. Yeah.
I remember running into him. He was like 176 pounds.
I was like, what the fuck? How are you going to make 135? He's so big.

Speaker 2 He looks good at 145 at USC 300.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I liked it for him. I was bummed out that that Mosvar Ivloeb fight fell out because especially this weekend last year.
Yes. That's a very interesting.

Speaker 1 Aljo is strong at 145.

Speaker 2 Why did that fight fall out? What happened?

Speaker 1 Aljo got injured. Ah,

Speaker 1 he got injured and he thought he'd be able to work through it, but couldn't.

Speaker 1 And there's, you know, there's a point of diminishing returns with these weight-cutting dudes.

Speaker 1 And I think, you know.

Speaker 2 There'll be something. Like, they've got the whole thing at one with the hydration clause.
But the thing is, no matter what, people are always going to try and find a way.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 They always try and find a way to sneak past the hydration test or something that they can use to pass it. But I don't know how that works.
I don't know how they test for it.

Speaker 2 It's never happened to me. But weight cutting, even when I started fighting, people used to tell me to go down to

Speaker 2 170 for you guys. Oh, my God.
Hell no.

Speaker 1 How the fuck can you make 170?

Speaker 2 Back when I was skinny, before I got really brawlic, I was maybe, I could make maybe 80 kgs. That's close to 170, because 170 is 77 kgs.
But lowest I ever go to was 80 as a kickboxer. That was it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, 170, I'd die.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't even. Because I've seen some of these wake-ups where

Speaker 1 Hamza. Oh, bro.
Like, when Hamza would make 170. Levin Cyborg.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 You see her when she was in the bath, in the tub, crying and sneaking. And Olivera, when they go and they huddle around them.

Speaker 2 When you cut weight, though, I'll say this thing. For me, when I cut weight,

Speaker 2 it's a spiritual experience sometimes. It's a weird experience because I've not just me, I've seen fighters who have

Speaker 2 not get delirious, but start saying things that they wouldn't normally say. Not even in a bad way, but just the way they talk.

Speaker 1 Because you're close to death. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You see the light. Yeah, man.

Speaker 1 You really are close to death. Yeah.
I mean, it sounds ridiculous to say that. And for someone who doesn't understand what fighters are going through, you'd go, oh, you're being hyperbolic.

Speaker 1 But not really.

Speaker 1 Not really. You really are close to death.
If you keep going for a few more hours, you'll die. Yeah.

Speaker 2 especially the, I mean, like, I've seen, my weight cuts are normally pretty tame. Not as bad because I think I'm perfect for 185.

Speaker 2 But the ones that I've seen guys lose a lot of weight the day off, and I see them how they are.

Speaker 2 And even when they go to the scale, you see their face just.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you never look too destroyed.

Speaker 2 No, I always come in underweight as well.

Speaker 1 What do you normally weigh like the week of a fight?

Speaker 2 Week of a fight.

Speaker 2 If I get to the fight location, say,

Speaker 2 if they're when they weigh me, if I'm say

Speaker 2 198,

Speaker 2 200, yeah, that's easy for me. I'm like, cool.
That's normally what I'm at.

Speaker 1 That's just a few hard sauna sessions.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but just the water loading, and then it's like, my body knows. It's weird how my body does it.
Hey, my body is just like,

Speaker 2 it just knows, okay, we're getting on the plane. You've done it before.
It just knows. It's just like muscle memory.
And I get to the fight location. My body's like, cool, we're doing this.

Speaker 2 And then the weight just starts to go.

Speaker 1 did you notice a difference when they didn't allow ivs versus when they did allow ivs i never used it you never used it never used ivs that's the thing so so you never cut weight enough where you were so depleted that you needed to get those backs and yeah i would have liked to but

Speaker 2 they say that's the best way to rehydrate the brain yeah because it takes how many hours if you do it orally it takes a long time yeah to get your brain and that's the affects your chin you're trying to protect as you're nugging slushing around in your hand

Speaker 2 yeah because because wait, what is cerebral fluid? It's made of

Speaker 2 it's it's well I'm guessing a lot of water or there's a lot of water in there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and the the rehydration of the brain apparently is the slowest because the blood-brain barrier. That's the slowest.
You know, your body's your muscles rehydrate fairly quickly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But still, it just never makes sense to me that a person is like literally on the verge of death 24 hours before a cage fight.

Speaker 2 Let's go battle to the death. And then you get head kicked in the fucking chin and

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, look, I do love this game, and I think weight cuts is always going to be a part of it right now. But who knows? Like, because even now we have height differentials.

Speaker 2 Like, how are we going to start discriminating against that? Like, okay, we only have height classes.

Speaker 1 Is that the next thing? No, that doesn't make any sense because you got guys like DC that, you know, even though he was not even barely six feet tall, he was a heavyweight champion, but he's a tank.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And he's the wrestling skills.
I think that the way to do it really is to have more weight classes. I think when you have the big gaps, like 85 to 205 is 20 pounds.
That's crazy.

Speaker 1 That's such a big ass gap. And then, you know, 205, if you want to start fighting heavyweight, and then you're dealing with guys like Francis, who's a natural 265, that's such a gap.

Speaker 2 They should have the ones in between. Okay, they take it.
10 pounds. 165, 170, 175, 180, like that.

Speaker 1 They could do that, but I think that's maybe a little too much. I think 10 pounds.
Yeah. 10 pounds is reasonable.
Yeah. All the way up to

Speaker 1 25, 35, 45, 55, 65, 75, 85, 95, 205,

Speaker 1 and then maybe 225, and then heavyweight.

Speaker 1 You have more chance. The whole thing of 265 being a limit for heavyweight to me is crazy.

Speaker 2 Silly, because there's bigger boys out there.

Speaker 2 Mark Hunt used to cut down to 265. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's crazy. Even Francis did as well.
Yeah, if they did, I mean, they can just, I think they talked about doing it. They talked about doing it recently.

Speaker 2 Maybe last year, I think. They talked about adding more weight classes, but then I never heard anything.

Speaker 1 I know California was flirting with it.

Speaker 2 Okay, maybe that's what I saw.

Speaker 1 They should have it everywhere. There's

Speaker 1 too many gaps that are too wide. Like, there's too many tweeners.
Yeah. You know, too many guys that are too small to fight at 170, but they really can't make 55 healthy.

Speaker 2 At least they took this shit out.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it took finally. Yeah, finally.

Speaker 2 Look, I always thought that that's like a group chat. like decision.
Just say, yo, this is a dumb rule. Let's take it out.
Boom. But why does it take so long? Is it because the commission

Speaker 2 all over the United States or whatever have to get together or something? I don't know.

Speaker 1 I don't understand how it takes. That seems like a common sense rule.
And especially anybody who understands the power of elbows, like this is not the most powerful elbow. No.
It's just not.

Speaker 1 And so to deny that and to say that somehow or another that can't be blocked, well, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 You could do that just as easy as you can do that. You can block that elbow.
Facts. Yeah, it doesn't, none of it makes any sense.
There's a bunch of things that are unrealistic, in my opinion.

Speaker 1 One of them is not being able to upkick from a downward position when a guy's on top of you. So if a guy's on top of you and you're on your back and the guy has a knee down, you can't upkick.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, that's silly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I get what you mean.

Speaker 1 That's silly. That doesn't make any sense.
I think you should be able to upkick when you are flat on your back and he's on his knees. Yeah.
You should, because that's a real technique.

Speaker 2 If you have rubber guard, like a flexible hips or whatever, you can just bring your leg and boom. Yeah, Anderson did that to someone.
Who did he do that to?

Speaker 1 uh oh was it not um what's his name yoshinokami i think yishinokami and he got yeah he got disqualified and not in the ufc oh was that in rumble and the rocks rumble the yellow cage yeah so that that was a good knockout but then right they disqualified him disqualified him yeah that technique like if you are in a guy's guard and that guy can elbow you in the face punch you in the face why can't he kick you in the face he should be able to lean back and up kick you and it would make the guard way more effective dangerous It's also more real.

Speaker 1 Here it is.

Speaker 2 This one, yeah.

Speaker 1 Boom. Boom.
Oh, shit. That's a good knockout.
That's a beautiful knockout. That should be 100% legal.

Speaker 2 Look at the hip dexterity. Yeah.
Look at the way he just brought that back.

Speaker 1 Boom. Oh, like an axe kick.

Speaker 1 Like an axe kick from the outside.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you know what? You're right.

Speaker 1 That's 100% a good technique. It should be legal, and you should be avoiding that if you're on top.
Top is an advantageous position.

Speaker 1 Anything the guy that can do on bottom that is real for like a real fight should be allowed. It's not like you're cemented in this position.

Speaker 1 Like the idea of not allowing soccer kicks to a downed opponent, what I think about that is the cage.

Speaker 1 I think if you're pressed up against a cage and someone can stomp you or soccer kick you, there's no way to move. Yeah, true.

Speaker 1 But if you're in an open space and there's a place to move, all those things should be legal because all those things are real techniques. Facts.
But especially if a guy's on top of you.

Speaker 1 If a guy's on top of you on his knees in your guard and you can get a leg back and stomp him in the face, that's good. That's a real technique that should be 100% legal.

Speaker 2 The one I like, soccer kicks, is just, it just looks cool. But again, if you have someone pinned against the cage and then even meeting them,

Speaker 2 was it one they go, okay?

Speaker 1 Yes. They allow it.

Speaker 2 I don't even know what the

Speaker 2 discretion of the referee is to allow it.

Speaker 1 I think it's if they're pinned against the cage.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he doesn't allow it. Exactly.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Which means

Speaker 2 if you're an open space. Look, soccer kicks go.

Speaker 1 Did you ever see the one where Roger Huerta fought in one and got one of the the worst soccer kick KOs ever?

Speaker 1 Maybe, but some fought some big Brazilian cat, and this dude soccer kicked him, and it was like, oh my God.

Speaker 2 Like in the open space? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 He had him rocked already. And then he's down like this, and this dude just.

Speaker 2 I think the thing as well is

Speaker 2 the look of it for, I guess, the people who aren't really hardcore fans. If they see that, they're like, ooh.
And then it goes back to human cockfighting. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, but if that's true, how about Irene Aldana? When she fought at the sphere, her whole face is cut open.

Speaker 2 Oh, that was crazy.

Speaker 1 Insane. They didn't stop the fight.

Speaker 2 Tough, though.

Speaker 1 So tough. Yeah.
But so here's the Roger Workton one. So Roger's hurt.
And Roger shouldn't have been fighting at 170 anyway. And watch this.

Speaker 2 Oh, no.

Speaker 1 Boom. Oh, yeah.
I mean, that one.

Speaker 2 I have seen this. Bro, that one

Speaker 1 can fucking kill you.

Speaker 1 That one can kill you. I mean, that dude had everything in that kill.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 He even held it for a little bit.

Speaker 1 Just really line it up.

Speaker 2 Full fucking goal.

Speaker 1 Ooh, that's a rough one. That is bad.
That is bad. That's a rough one.
But that's a real technique.

Speaker 2 Legal. Yeah, I mean, you can do it in real life.

Speaker 1 Yes, that's the point. It's the sport of fighting.
And if it's a sport of fighting and you can't upkick a guy when you're in your guard because his knees are on the ground, that's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Even the one you've actually, was it maybe you at this fair you mentioned it with the Marab fight? They stood them up somewhere at the end.
And I was thinking, like,

Speaker 2 yeah, why are they standing them up? Made no sense. Yeah.
You know, it was at the beginning.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think so. I think Herb Herb was alluding to they want more action.

Speaker 1 I don't know if he's getting pressure from someone to have more action, but one of the things that Herb said was if someone wants it, I think he was alluding to like some specific officials and executives, whoever.

Speaker 1 He's like, if they want it to look different, I wish they would tell me. Because like this is...

Speaker 2 Herb's saying this to you.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, not to me. He said it in an interview when he was being criticized for trying to get people to work and trying to stand people up.

Speaker 2 So let me get this straight. He's saying maybe some officials or someone would be alluding.

Speaker 1 He's alluding to the fact that they want it to look a specific way.

Speaker 2 Ah, I think that's going to pick up what you're putting down.

Speaker 1 You see if you can find his statement on it because it was interesting the way he phrased it. The way he phrased it.
Like cryptic.

Speaker 2 Like, yes. Okay.
You know,

Speaker 2 he's trying not to put someone under the bus, but he's saying like, look, maybe someone's saying to him that.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 2 And I think they are because he's always like, let's work let's work sometimes when it doesn't even make any sense like they're working like i know i saw i remember and i was like yeah he's on top he just got him down he's actually trying to you know beat him up yeah no sean was defending well but still saying uh true that'd be interesting though that would

Speaker 2 that's that's when i say interesting that's like Shady.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's shady.

Speaker 1 But it's what we were talking about at lunch today, too, is that there's certain fighters they want to win because those fighters are more exciting. Yeah.
And And I'm a purist.

Speaker 1 I feel like there should be no stand-ups.

Speaker 1 Unless there's a violation, unless someone does something illegal, there should be no stand-ups.

Speaker 1 I think if a guy could take you down like Marab does and just beat you up and you can't do shit, and even if the audience is booing, that's the fight.

Speaker 1 If Sean wants to get up, he's got to get up. I don't think it should be, you can just hold him on and you're full guard and the referee just stands you up.

Speaker 1 Because that's such an advantage for the striker.

Speaker 2 Yeah, big time.

Speaker 1 He's standing up again. And you already have an advantage of every round start standing up.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then you work so hard to get something to the ground and then they go okay stand up yeah i'm trying to think have i ever been in the position that they made me stand up not on top uh but even on the bottom i always get up i find a way that's that's the ego thing because again look i had to kill that to to really be great at this game because i knew for a fact

Speaker 2 I couldn't beat some nerds in pajamas. So that was for me my, okay, humble yourself and learn how to grapple.
And then I sucked at first and I got better.

Speaker 2 I never have shown too much of my grappling skills because they never really put me in a position to show as much as I need to. So for me, I was just like, cool, I'll just fucking do a Derek Lewis.

Speaker 2 Stand up, get up and just beat him up as much as I can. But yeah, fuck.

Speaker 2 That is suspect. If someone is...
I actually want to watch that. I'll watch it later.

Speaker 1 Let's see what the statement is. Did you find it?

Speaker 3 So far, I've only found that Luke Thomas made a video and he said Herb called him after he made the video.

Speaker 2 Interesting. Luke Thomas.
Who's that again?

Speaker 1 Luke Thomas, the journalist. Okay.
MMA journalist.

Speaker 3 Yeah, he said they spoke for a third.

Speaker 2 I'm like, I'm reading the closed captioning because I can't listen to it. He said those instances.
I'll just play this, I guess.

Speaker 3 This might be it. I don't know if you saw Herb speaking.

Speaker 1 Oh, Luke. Oh, my bad.
Of Herb.

Speaker 2 Ultimately, his opinion, but not limited to those instances where he had called for more work from Marab.

Speaker 2 What I cannot do today is speak on behalf of Herb. Ultimately, his opinions and beliefs are his own, and they are his to tell whenever he elects to do so.
What I can do is speak on behalf of my views.

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 1 that's not it.

Speaker 1 There was an article where they had interviewed him.

Speaker 2 Okay, a statement from him himself.

Speaker 1 There was a statement from Herb himself, and he was saying, if someone wants the fights to look different, I wish they would tell me.

Speaker 2 Damn, that's suspect.

Speaker 1 Yes. That's a very

Speaker 1 important Quran.

Speaker 2 That's a way.

Speaker 2 Again, that's cryptic. Cryptic.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That means they're telling you, I want more action. Okay, here it goes.
I've seen on social media, people have spoken about me

Speaker 1 calling the fighters for more action.

Speaker 1 That's what I've always done. I can tell you what I tell fighters during the rules briefing.
I tell them anytime I'm going to interfere or any intervention, I'm going to talk to you first.

Speaker 1 Like if I'm going to stand you up, what I'm going to say first is I'm going to say let's work. I usually clap at what I'm expecting from him is not busy.

Speaker 1 If what I'm and what I'm expecting from him is not busy work. I specify I'm looking for effort to finish the fight.

Speaker 1 So either you posture to where you could set up, fight any attacks, or advance your position, effort to advance, because it's not as easy as just passing the guard, but effort to pass, effort to advance your position, effort to bring the fight to finish.

Speaker 1 That rule was put in place, standing fighters up to make our sport look the way we want it to look. But he said something else.

Speaker 1 It was more.

Speaker 2 If he goes, as a referee, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 But I mean, if that's what he said, I trust your, you know, your recollection of it. But if that's what he said, that's still very suspect.
And that, you don't want to get this, this game.

Speaker 2 This is one thing about the UFC, it's as real as it gets, or MMA itself. This is what it is.

Speaker 2 But if you have that happening, then that's done to seem a little bit like, you know, not to take away like it's the WWE or anything.

Speaker 1 It's not that, but you are influencing the course of a fight where a guy has control. And where a fighter.

Speaker 2 And the referee is the guy officiating the fight. So if he's getting word from someone,

Speaker 2 the way he said that, someone, that's...

Speaker 1 I think he was saying, if someone wants me to, if they want the fight to look different, I wish they would tell me.

Speaker 2 But that's what I'm saying. When you say someone, it's like, who is he? Who's that someone?

Speaker 1 I don't think the referee's job is to instruct a fighter to do anything other than follow the rules.

Speaker 1 And if you can hold a guy down, I feel I'm the worst with this because I think you should start in the same position you ended the last round. Because I think it's one fight.

Speaker 1 I think it's one fight. It's not five fights.
So

Speaker 1 an advantage for the striker is always standing up.

Speaker 1 So if a guy gets you down and has your back and the round ends, I think he should have the exact same position in the exact same place on the octagon floor when the next round starts.

Speaker 1 Because he earned that position and you didn't earn the stand-up. So if you're standing up, standing up for a guy like you is a giant advantage.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm like, I'm biased. I'm going to be like, nah, fuck that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, of course. Well, also, the audience would be

Speaker 1 like, shut the fuck up, Brogan.

Speaker 1 You know, you'd fucking know what you're saying.

Speaker 2 It does make sense when it comes to pure fighting. Because even, bro, even

Speaker 2 Pride had 10-minute rounds the first round. You know, that's cool.
I'm saying, look, some things

Speaker 2 like I'm glad this, they've taken out the way. But again,

Speaker 2 bring back tournaments just for one night. Let's see who's a real, like, who's a real badass?

Speaker 1 Yeah, that would be crazy.

Speaker 2 I've done it kickboxing. I've never done it in MMA.
I've done it in boxing, but I might bring back a tournament. So, like, let's see who's really, who's really about this.

Speaker 2 Because when you have to fight, get the adrenaline dump, then you go back and sit down, sit down for ages, and then eventually have to warm up again.

Speaker 2 I remembered I've done it a few times i've won a few of them but it's it shows

Speaker 1 this yeah like this you know well it's also built-in drama over the evening where people watch a guy fight once and now he's gonna fight a second time and that was always wild about the early days of the ufc watching those tournaments and pride as well did that a lot but yeah it'd be fun i think even for like uh oh they did it once though Glory did it.

Speaker 1 Remember Last Man Standing? That was crazy.

Speaker 1 They fought three times.

Speaker 2 The UFC did it once with the flyweight the inaugural flyweight title and i think it was mighty mouse and ian mccall in the in in the final no no i got it wrong they fucked up the decision because if it was meant to be a draw and they'd have one more round in sydney i think yeah and they they were meant to but then they gave uh they fucked up the decision because but that would be crazy though they go okay cool The judges have it this, that.

Speaker 2 It's a draw. We're going to one more round.
After a crazy fight like that, that would have had the whole place just cool.

Speaker 1 Well, Well, that's what glory does. Yeah.

Speaker 1 One more round.

Speaker 1 And you see the look in the guy's face like, oh, shit.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I've had that too. But that's where this comes in.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Meaning, you have to just like, cool, let's go. Get back in the corner.

Speaker 1 That's is that one of the most difficult things to like change your mindset in mid-fight? Like if something throws you off?

Speaker 2 Mid-fight. Ooh.

Speaker 1 Did you remember what I'm bringing up specifically is you remember Tim Kennedy and Yoel Romero?

Speaker 2 Oh, when get up, get up.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yeah.
So Tim Kennedy. Yes.
Tim Kennedy had Yoel Romero fucking up. Feel fucked up.
Fucked up. And then they put Yoel on the stool.
They threw ice on the floor.

Speaker 1 They fucking, and he kept sitting on the stool. And Big John's telling him to stand up, and he's still sitting down.
And Tim Kennedy's walking around going, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 This fight should be stopped. Fight's over.
Yeah, the fight should have been stopped. But then Yoel got up and then he stopped him afterwards.

Speaker 1 But he had like a good, solid 35 seconds extra recovery time, which when you're hurt is

Speaker 1 huge, yeah.

Speaker 2 Ice on the the floor as well.

Speaker 1 Tim said it fucked with his head and it was his mental weakness that he didn't, he thought he was angry. They're robbing me.
This is bullshit. I had him.
I should have won.

Speaker 1 The fight should have been, the round started, the minute was up. It should have been, I could have got on him and I could have finished him.
And so in his head, he lost focus.

Speaker 2 It does happen. Like I said, even with me pointing at the ground in that moment.
Any small lapse in judgment, you just need 30 minutes or 25 minutes of focus.

Speaker 1 So in that point yeah i can see well how that would get to him yeah that would get to him because you're like what the fuck they're about to screw me out of this exactly and they did and so then he's got to fight again while he's going motherfucker this should have already been over so instead of concentrating completely on being in the present in the fight you're thinking i got fucked anderson versus bisping when anderson thought he won and was on the case celebrating right and then if i think it was herb or whoever be like yo get get down here this and that right or right or right which could have been over if anderson just followed up with one or two more shots that would have been it it's It's like we were talking about Jalen Turner and Henato Morcano.

Speaker 1 He drops him, has him fucked up, and then walks away like it's a KO.

Speaker 2 I literally went like, because I was front. I went to 300.
I'm such a fan. I was there from the first fight.
That's why I like to wear that as a badge on. I'm like, yeah, I was there.

Speaker 2 And I watched that, and I was just like,

Speaker 1 why?

Speaker 2 He had eight more seconds. He could have just done something and taken him out.

Speaker 1 Honato's fucked up, too. He was hurt bad.
Yeah, but. And Jalen can crack.
He's tough. Oh, he's so big for 55.
It's so long.

Speaker 2 I think he's also really talented as well. He's fast.
He's smooth. Like when he fought Dan,

Speaker 2 you heard that shit.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 Bro, that kick when I heard that, and Dan grabbed his waist. And then Dan had his neck at the end of the round as well.
I lost my voice.

Speaker 1 That's the one where Dan broke his arm, right? Yeah. Just a scrap.

Speaker 1 Dan's a savage. Trust me.
I love watching him come back into the top five now. I love it.
I love that he did that. I love it.

Speaker 2 I love who he is as a person because, look, Dan,

Speaker 2 I see him every day, most days, and he's a guy that you don't know what to expect. Like, out of nowhere,

Speaker 2 boom, he just customized himself with all these tattoos.

Speaker 1 Yeah, crazy.

Speaker 2 That's badass.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he just covered himself.

Speaker 2 I think he's in Spain because do you know Oscar Will? You know, Oscar Willis, the MacLife reporter. He's fighting bare knuckle this weekend, I believe, or maybe next weekend in Spain.

Speaker 2 But Dan's going to go there and corner him. I'm like, fucking.

Speaker 1 Bare knuckle boxing or MMA?

Speaker 2 No, boxing.

Speaker 2 That's not for me. I can fight.
Look, if I had to get to a fight, whatever, sure. But like for me,

Speaker 2 I'd rather not. I'll pass on that.
But that's the kind of shit that Dan loves. Dan's like, yeah, let's do that shit.
He wants to do that shit. He wants to be like, yeah,

Speaker 2 he just loves fighting.

Speaker 1 Mosfidal's got that whole MMA league where it's all bare knuckle MMA, which I like.

Speaker 1 Because it doesn't make sense to me that you don't cover your shins or your knees or your elbows, but you do cover your knuckles.

Speaker 2 I just don't like the knuckles because you see, again, moose knuckles still there. This can cause more damage like like cuts yeah

Speaker 2 it can get you open exactly guys get sliced up so if i if gloves like i guess they protect they don't really like i don't the new gloves as well i think i've only fought once in the new gloves now

Speaker 2 i might give it a maybe one or two more but i'm like the old gloves just they didn't really protect The wraps protect your hands, but the old gloves, it felt like rubber, like tire rubber.

Speaker 2 and i think they were just dangerous like dangerous to hit with if you hit something with those it's like bang these new gloves they feel like a little bit of um a memory foam a little softer softer and i don't know about this whole curve thing they don't really curve i could still do that and then you know i try not to do that i'm not you know whatever but still

Speaker 1 this uh i'll wait and see see bro listen man the best gloves for sure are trevor whitman's yeah the best gloves he made the best gloves they're the best mma gloves

Speaker 1 See if you can pull them up.

Speaker 2 The Onyx. Is that the Onyx one?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I've got the big ones, but I've never ever had.

Speaker 1 I've got MMA gloves. Yeah.
They curve, so it's curved. So your hand is in this position.
So if you want to do this, you have to open them up. But it's still, you could do that for grappling.

Speaker 1 It's all the same. But they're in a curved position.
And I think that would avoid so many eye-pokes. So many.
So many.

Speaker 1 You haven't really been eye-poked too many times.

Speaker 2 Nah. Only time was in training.
Really bad one was in training, but nah,

Speaker 2 not in a fight. nah.
Avoid that as much as I can.

Speaker 1 I have another thought on that. Totally think of this.
I feel like they should cover the fingers. I feel like why with like a mitt that goes over the top with like a wrap on the surface.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like look at those little bad glove mitts.

Speaker 1 Like that's Trevor Whitman's. Okay.
That's the Onyx gloves. Those are the best gloves.
Trevor Whitman's a fucking genius, man. He makes incredible gear.

Speaker 2 Has he ever brought this idea to?

Speaker 1 Yeah, they were in negotiation, but I think Trevor went crazy. He wanted like

Speaker 1 a gobbling amount of money. He wanted something, according to Dana, at least that's his version of it.
Okay, two-sided trainer stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 regardless of all that, he makes the best gloves. They're the best MMA gloves of all time.

Speaker 1 Bar none.

Speaker 2 About the big ones, bro. I'll hit him up, see if I can get those ones.
Just to try them out.

Speaker 1 It's also the best foam. Like, he uses the most high-tech foams, the most expensive foam.

Speaker 1 And he makes them all by hand. Like, Trevor stitches them on.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I've seen him stitch it.

Speaker 2 He's passionate about it. But

Speaker 2 yeah these new ones I'm so far at fighting with them I still prefer the the old ones you think they're more damaging yeah yeah

Speaker 1 like I get it I

Speaker 2 I don't like to get hit so maybe that's why I'm biased with it but when I hit someone with those I feel it causes more damage and I mean I can't cause damage I caused some damage on DDP with those ones but I still want to try them maybe one more time just to feel feel them but yeah it felt different yeah it felt different you can I can definitely tell even the wraps when i put when i was uh squeezing my wraps into them i was like okay

Speaker 2 just took a while but it still got in but i'm like all right cool grab i like to test the grip strength make sure i can hold someone but yeah uh

Speaker 1 we'll see i don't know why the fingers have to be exposed because you never do this There's no reason to be able to do it.

Speaker 1 There's no reason to have the fingers ever in this position. Every time you grip, you're gripping like this.

Speaker 1 Or you're gripping like this.

Speaker 2 Also, it would prevent joint manipulation. Yeah, small joint manipulation.
If you had, like, it's almost like a webbing. Yeah.
It just covers that.

Speaker 1 Why can't you just have a thin piece of leather that goes over the fingers and then something that's curved around the top?

Speaker 2 You said like those bag mitts with the thumbnail. Yes.

Speaker 1 So even if you do get poked in the eye, you're getting poked by a large thing

Speaker 1 instead of a finger. Yeah.
It goes all the way into your eye and fingernails. Yeah.
You know, so the nails would be covered.

Speaker 1 Which even if you trim your fucking nails, that's still a hard surface that could scratch the shit out of your cornea.

Speaker 2 Then you got toes. I've seen people get kicked in the eye even in training and infected the eye as well.

Speaker 1 Oh yeah, man.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I've seen that. Toenails.
But nah, I mean, that makes sense. I mean, it just, I think people are scared of change.

Speaker 2 Even with these new gloves, I think it's maybe, that's why I'm trying to be like, let me give it one more shot.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to say I'm against them.

Speaker 2 I just feel

Speaker 2 the other gloves were just, they had that thing on them.

Speaker 1 But Mike Winklejohn, you know, he lost an eye.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's why he wears the shades. Exactly.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he dropped it. From holding pads from somebody.
So he was holding pads and someone missed and caught his eye with their toenail.

Speaker 2 I do that too, if that happened to me. PTSD.

Speaker 1 Yeah, fuck, man. I think it's like everybody should wear goggles if you're holding mitts, just the possibility.
Just that we know that it happened to one of the top trainers in the sport.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and it's not just a freak accident. Right.
Even just grappling, I try and keep my nails

Speaker 2 trim just because I don't want to. I've done it before by accident on someone.
I've caused, I think I had collar tie and then they did something and then

Speaker 2 I got, or not on me, on them. And it's happened to me as well, but I felt bad when I did it on a person.
I had their skin in my nails and I was like, yeah, my bad. So again,

Speaker 2 yeah, cut your nails. But still, that's not a bad idea.
I would fuck with that.

Speaker 1 I feel like it wouldn't affect the grappling at all. Yeah.
And it definitely would help eye pokes, which are the biggest problem. Eye pokes are a giant problem, man.

Speaker 1 So many guys have gotten eye surgery now. I mean, Bilal's had three eye surgeries.
Yeah. And remember when he got poked real badly?

Speaker 2 Hold on, the Leon one. Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Fuck, yeah, I can imagine.

Speaker 2 You can change the culture.

Speaker 1 I feel like it should be done because I don't think it's bad.

Speaker 1 I don't see any negative to cover in the fingers, and I see only positives. Yeah.
And I don't think it would do.

Speaker 1 It's just real simple. Piece of leather here.
I get you.

Speaker 2 I get what you're saying.

Speaker 1 Measure the fighter's hands. You know, because some guys have very long fingers.
Some guys have short fingers. Measure the fighter's hands.
Build a custom glove. That's not hard to do.

Speaker 2 Same thing like having glove size. I'm sure someone will make it now.
Oh, someone's made that before?

Speaker 1 I don't think so. Yeah.
I don't know of anybody that's made that, but that should be the way they do it because that would eliminate an enormous number of opportunities.

Speaker 2 That's a money-making scheme right now. If someone decides to make that and then put it out there as a prototype, be like, look, this actually works.
Train with them.

Speaker 2 And then they go, I'm patenting that. Boom.

Speaker 1 But the UFC doesn't listen to me because I have all kinds of crazy ideas. I'm like, get rid of weight cutting, add more weight classes, change the stand-ups, no stand-ups.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Fair enough. Because also, like, I'm not interested in making the fight more exciting.
I'm making, I want, I'm interested in what's the the best what actually works. I'm a purist.

Speaker 1 I want to see what is the actual effective technique. Like there's sometimes like when you see in jiu-jitsu tournaments where guys are doing stuff to me like they're in a 50-50 position.

Speaker 1 I'm like this guy could punch you in the face, kick you in the face so easy. This is not a good self-defense position.
Yep. And you see it in MMA

Speaker 1 where guys are accustomed to doing that and

Speaker 1 they're literally face down holding onto an ankle and the dude just boom, boom.

Speaker 2 One of my boys, Nate, Nate Law he just fought in his I think third pro fight the guy had a leg lock and Nate posted the this quote from chill sunny after the fight about if a guy is holding on to your leg just posture up and punch him in the face yeah and that's what Nate did and won the fight so yeah I mean the whole leg lock game I know I know some stuff with X guard and whatnot but I don't really fuck with it too much because I get scared because the commitment when I hold on to someone's leg.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And then you just expose.
Unless I'm like a Craig Jones type who I just know.

Speaker 1 As a wizard yeah the thing about leg locks is you have so little time to react yeah if you don't tap if you there's such a brief especially like an inside heel hook there's such a brief amount of time you have before your shit is just blown up smithereens it's just fine this is fine this is fine problem and it's gone yeah rips apart and then you're fucked for nine months even me if i'm running with people if i don't trust that person or if i just feel like i'll just go yeah cool tap because yeah ego's not worth it i don't try and hold on to shit like that especially leg locks do you you have a hard time like that?

Speaker 1 With people trying to get a name for themselves training with you? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Of course.
So that's for me.

Speaker 2 It's not even if I go to a new gym, I pick and choose who I go with. And it's not like an ego thing because I don't want to get my ass whooped.
It's just like, I don't know you well enough that.

Speaker 2 Right. And sometimes you see people

Speaker 2 they salivate, like, oh, it's my chance. This is right.
I got my shot now. Even now, sometimes in

Speaker 2 grappling with something.

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Speaker 2 People in the jiu-jitsu class, they'll just lower belts, they'll be like, I'm like, I'm good, thank you.

Speaker 1 You know what I don't like when I see a dude sitting out around and waiting while you're exhausted, and then they go, Do you want to go? Like, bitch, I've watched you, I'll call him out.

Speaker 1 I watched you just sit down for 10 fucking minutes.

Speaker 2 Oh, you get that as well.

Speaker 1 Why didn't you just jump in? Yeah, why weren't you just rolling right now? You want to roll fresh? Yeah,

Speaker 1 is that what this is? Yeah, and you like, call them out on it. You see the look on them,

Speaker 1 man.

Speaker 2 I just go, nah, I'm good, thank you. And I'll get someone that I actually trust.
Because, yeah, it's not, it's just,

Speaker 2 I know the feeling as well. Cause I'm sure that someone will tap me or do something.
Oh, I'll just let go. And then it's like that.
I know when it's real and it's general, like, good job.

Speaker 2 And I know the one when it's like,

Speaker 2 they like it. I want to tell everyone about this.

Speaker 1 I can't wait to get online. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm like, oh, here we go. But again, that's the thing when I talk about ego.
And I had to kill that. Before I started training grappling because it was just, I sucked.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Like, nah, I get taps. One thing I definitely will get is a submission in the UFC before I'm done.

Speaker 2 I will choke someone out, like a guillotine or a red naked. I like guillotines, but

Speaker 2 it's learning how to find the sweet spot for me, the sweet spot when I get it. And when I get it, it's not even a bulldog choke.
I get really good at those.

Speaker 2 Some I can find the spot and I just, because I got the frame for it. The best person at our gym, Dan, hangman.
That's his shit. He grabs your neck.

Speaker 2 You're going like it's like, yeah, find a way out. You can't cool tap.
But yeah, I like using guillotines, though, especially on

Speaker 2 wrestlers because, yeah, it just lets them know, okay, this is always a threat. This is always a threat.
But again, it's something I've been working on.

Speaker 2 But eventually, before I retire, you'll definitely see me get a submission.

Speaker 1 Well, it's interesting because you're a specialist. You know, you're one of those guys who, like, you didn't come in with a full MMA experience.
You didn't start as an amateur MMA fighter.

Speaker 1 You were a kickboxer. And so you had, I remember when you and I first started talking online, or I reached out to you on Instagram.
Yeah. And you were like, I'm going to wait a little while.

Speaker 1 I'm going to just do this right. Which I thought was very intelligent because you could have just jumped in like many guys do.
And then

Speaker 1 UFC throws you in with a wrestler. You get exposed.
And now you're so far behind the curve.

Speaker 1 It takes a long time to build up your confidence and your momentum again because you got smothered in your first fight.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that was 2015, I believe. I haven't sent a DM to Dana saying, just give me one shot.
Just get me to the cage. I'll do the rest.
And look, I would have, but I'm glad I took my time.

Speaker 2 And it was good for me just to fight different people from Ukraine, China,

Speaker 2 what else, Brazil, all different types of places, and then experience different styles. And that way I felt confident enough when I got to the USC.

Speaker 2 My first fight, shout out Rob Wilkinson, good guy, good friend of mine now. And yeah, he tried to take me down constantly.
And I was able to withstand that because of the work we did.

Speaker 2 And Andre, Andre Paulette, my wrestling coach. A lot of drills, just drills, wall work constantly.

Speaker 1 What year did you start start that? What year did you start grappling training?

Speaker 2 I started in 2010, but I was meant to go into MMA straight away, but there was just so many kickboxing fights, and I kept on getting kickboxing fights that it was just too.

Speaker 2 Also, I like fighting kickboxing, so I was just like, oh, I'll just take this fight, take this fight. But I was always grappling on the side, like low-key grappling on the side.

Speaker 2 And eventually, I think,

Speaker 2 I can't remember what year my first

Speaker 2 MMA fight was.

Speaker 2 Would have been 2014 maybe or 13. and then I started taking it more seriously.
Like, I'm a purple belt now, but I'm like, I'm a purple belt.

Speaker 2 I know I'm dangerous, but it's like, yeah, I'm not like, there's levels, there's levels to belts. There's some purple belts, blue belts who can kick my ass, you know.
But yeah,

Speaker 2 I do enjoy it, though. I love grappling.
I like, I feel like a ninja cat when I'm grappling, and I'm on that flow state. I just feel like I just, it's, it's fun to play with.
But then, again,

Speaker 2 I've only ever shown cases of brief,

Speaker 2 like, again, uh, who's one? Not just the Pereira fight in Madison Square Garden, uh, Gastlem. I had a triangle on them.
Uh, Tavares, I had a guillotine at the end of the round.

Speaker 2 Some other ones with the Camura traps, but yeah, uh, just no one's really put me in that position to make me have to like really use my offensive grappling.

Speaker 2 But again, when I get taken to the ground, I'm just like, fuck, I'm just gonna stand up.

Speaker 1 If kickboxing was as big as MMA, do you think you have ever done MMA?

Speaker 2 That's a good question.

Speaker 1 Fuck.

Speaker 2 If, okay, money-wise,

Speaker 2 probably ego. Because I just knew a fucking nerd in pajamas could kick my ass.
I just, I can't have that.

Speaker 2 Bro, honestly, it's just, I just know like some dude can beat me and he doesn't have to even throw a punch.

Speaker 2 In the back of my mind, it's still, that's why sometimes when all these, you know, boxes, you know, like,

Speaker 2 like back in the day when it was a USC versus Boxing or whatever, I was like, well,

Speaker 2 this is a, this is real fighting. Like, you want to see who who the baddest person on the planet is? Fight.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 No one's telling you you can't use your weapons, but you want to take away all my weapons. That's why I don't think I'll ever box again because I just think it's too limiting.

Speaker 2 Even kickboxing, I feel like,

Speaker 2 it'd be really hard for me to, because it's too limiting. I do like aspects of grappling that I can use in a fight.
But yeah,

Speaker 2 nah. I like full-fledged fighting.
And I think it's a healthy ego. I just knew I have to really humble myself so I can learn how to fight these guys at their own game.
So, yeah, that's why.

Speaker 1 I like how 1FC has everything. They have grappling matches.
They have kickboxing matches. They have Muay Thai matches.
And they have MMA matches. I think that is the way to go.

Speaker 1 And I really wish the UFC, I know they're invested in this slap fighting shit, but instead of that,

Speaker 2 have a kickboxing league.

Speaker 1 And I think they don't think that people would get into kickboxing. I think they're wrong.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they just did the one in Denver for 1 FC recently. Went well, and the fights are crazy.
Yeah. A lot of knockdowns,

Speaker 2 a lot of action-packed stuff. But if it was just marketed the right way

Speaker 2 with the UFC's marketing machine, easily, easily be one of the biggest.

Speaker 1 Because everybody loves KOs. Everybody loves stand-up fights.

Speaker 2 It's slap fighting.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of KOs there. But

Speaker 1 you're going to get real KOs because kids, they can't, no one can grapple. You can't grapple.

Speaker 1 So you're going to get people that are forced to stand up, and you could then attract the greatest strikers in the world, like 1FC is doing.

Speaker 1 They're getting all these tie killers, you know, these rob tanks, all these like elite tie fighters, and they're all coming over, and they're fighting in the cage now.

Speaker 1 And I feel like there's an opportunity for that for a kickboxing league in America that would be hugely successful if like the UFC machine got behind it.

Speaker 2 You know, John Way Pop started that. I think he did.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Cage shit. Yeah.
Because I watched

Speaker 2 both fights with Brad Riddell, I think. Or the first, no, the first one with Brad Riddell.
Or second one, sorry. That was the one I watched at Cage Fighting.
Great fight. Crazy fight.

Speaker 2 Even though John lost, he just showed me who he is. But yeah, I think he did start Cage Muay Thai.
Yes. That was his thing.

Speaker 1 I think it was his thing.

Speaker 2 He should have fucking trademarked that shit.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, Muay Thai with little gloves is different too, right? Because, you know, there's blocks you can't use.

Speaker 2 Just shielding like the Dutch style. I remember with the big gloves, I always talked about it as well.
I always felt my striking was better for MMA.

Speaker 2 I always felt it was better for MMA because I was like, nah, if you you can just do this

Speaker 2 that's yeah you just block whatever hit it's just who's tough who's tougher right but with the small gloves you can get around the guard the hand traps are different so i always just felt like yeah my striking would excel better in mma i wasn't as

Speaker 2 not i'm tough but i wasn't as just like

Speaker 1 tough for no reason yeah thank you like i

Speaker 2 use my brain you know what i mean so i wasn't just tough for no reason like boom boom boom boom okay hit you hit me hit me hit you hit you yeah that's not my style i always felt i was slicker the way I moved, the way I set traps, and that's why I like them.

Speaker 2 It makes striking better.

Speaker 1 It's kind of crazy about the Dutch, right? Like, what is it about them that makes their style so savage? Because if you go back and you like watch like Ramon Deckers or Rob Kayman or Ernesto Hoost,

Speaker 1 oh my god, there's

Speaker 2 culture,

Speaker 2 yeah, I think it's the culture of the star. Because I've seen some of the gym spas.

Speaker 1 That's how they are.

Speaker 2 It's insane over there. Yeah, obviously.
Khalil was talking about it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Khalil was telling when he went up to train over there years back, and he's like, I don't can't fucking do this.

Speaker 1 These guys are going hard every day.

Speaker 2 For zero dollars.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Zero dollars. Like, what do you get paid in glory? What do the best fighters get paid in glory? Like, what is like...

Speaker 2 I wasn't getting paid that much.

Speaker 1 What does Rico Verhoeven get paid to defend his heavyweight title?

Speaker 2 I think he probably gets more than most. He's still in glory, right?

Speaker 1 Yep. Okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I kind of fell off them after they robbed me off the fucking belt. I was just like, eh, whatever.
I don't care about that.

Speaker 1 For the Jason Willness fight? Yeah, after that, I kind of felt that. I thought you won that fight, too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I know. It's one of those things.

Speaker 2 Look, I'm glad things happen the way they have in my career because it always gives me an opportunity to come back or rise again and showcase my spirit, my fighting spirit, not just in the cage, but as a human being.

Speaker 2 So all the things that have happened to me

Speaker 2 in my career when it comes to losses or setbacks, I just go, cool. Let's see what I can do next.
Right. Yeah.
Like, even, look, the DDP fight, Strickland fight. What's another one?

Speaker 2 Well, Pereira, I got that back. Yanwan, I feel like that was a side quest.
I'm just kind of like, man, that's cool. And I never hold on to them.
I never hold on like,

Speaker 2 I need to get this. It's like, nah, this is fine.
Like the Alex one, I was cool if that never happened. But then he decided to chase me.
And I was like, cool.

Speaker 1 Let's do it. The Jan thing is a crazy situation, right? Because Jan goes to a split decision with Pereira.
It's a great fight. It's a tough fight.
He has that crazy fight with Ankalaev.

Speaker 1 It goes to a draw. Yeah.
And then no one's talking about him. Everyone's talking about contenders in the light heavyweight division.
Like, what about Jan Bohovich?

Speaker 1 Like, get him in now before he's too fucking old.

Speaker 2 I think he's already in his 40s, early 40s.

Speaker 1 But I think he won the title that old.

Speaker 1 Wasn't he like 39 or 40 when he won the title? He was. I'm trying to think.

Speaker 1 I just feel like he's being disrespected. Like,

Speaker 1 he's just not getting the attention. Like, if you look at his performances, the guy's not had a bad performance.
Like, there's not one fight that was boring.

Speaker 1 There's not one fight where he wasn't trying to win.

Speaker 2 He's not a wrestler. Right.

Speaker 1 He's fighting

Speaker 1 contenders. He's fighting top guys.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's a fucking animal. And he's out of the conversation.
Like, they're talking about Ankalaev fighting, you know, like, oh, Alex is avoiding Ankhalayev, so he takes Khalil.

Speaker 1 Ankalaev and Jan Bohovich went to a fucking draw. Like, what about that? Like, what about him?

Speaker 2 Yeah, maybe because he doesn't make as much noise, because I don't really see him on there as much anymore.

Speaker 1 What does it say?

Speaker 1 Okay. Oh, he's supposed to fight Rockets, but he got a shoulder injury.

Speaker 2 He's hurt right now.

Speaker 1 Oh, shoulder surgery. But that was January.
So that was 10 months ago.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it must be. Well, that's about the right amount of time, especially when you're dealing with shoulder injuries, man.
Those fucking things take forever. Yeah, nah.

Speaker 2 Go see fucking, what's his name, Briggs? But yeah, I'm glad I got some today, though. Thank you for that.

Speaker 1 I actually feel like stem cells. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Not from the stem cells. I liked it from the just the drip I got earlier.
But yeah, the stem cells. The ones I had in my

Speaker 2 ankle. yeah, they worked.
When I went to Mexico, it works.

Speaker 1 It's a game changer. It's a game changer.
And we're getting fucked here in America where it's very difficult to get the same kind of treatment that you can get in Mexico and Panama.

Speaker 1 What they can do here is much more limited. Hopefully in the future, they'll release those limitations.

Speaker 1 But in America, you're dealing with a lot of corruption because pharmacopedic companies, surgeons, pharmaceutical drug companies, they're going to lose a lot of money if they have stem cell treatments because there's so many different things that it could fix.

Speaker 2 Even Briggs was just talking about what he said on here, just going at them.

Speaker 2 And that went viral, which is good. I just told him, bro, put out a tweet and say, I will never, ever kill myself, ever.

Speaker 1 I think that's a smart thing to do.

Speaker 1 He was just a little bit. Just put that tweet.

Speaker 2 When you start fucking with those guys, pharmaceutical companies, they will find anything.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you get no plane crash.

Speaker 2 Whoopsie. Oh, how did that happen? Yeah.
Fuck. There was one.
What was the one for me? I put that tweet out one time because I kind of got a little paranoid.

Speaker 2 Fuck whatever. So I did this interview with Oscar Willis, right?

Speaker 2 And I started talking about the whole, this is when Epstein just got arrested. And I was saying, like, well, Epstein just got arrested, right?

Speaker 2 And then Oscar goes, yeah, it's funny how the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard case is getting more attention than that. And I'm like, crazy, isn't it? So this Epstein guy just

Speaker 2 sold kids or whatever, trafficked them to these rich oligarchs and whatnot. And I was like, what happened to them? What happens to those people? Where's the list?

Speaker 2 And then I didn't think anything of it, but then it went viral. And then every year since it goes goes viral at least twice or three times, I'll see it just circulate again.

Speaker 2 And I'm just like, oh, fuck.

Speaker 1 So then I went on Twitter and I said,

Speaker 2 I will. And I'll say it again.
Look, listen, I will never, ever kill myself. I've never even come close.
I mean, we all think about it sometimes.

Speaker 2 Like when I was working this job, you just have like a...

Speaker 2 passing fleeting thought like, oh, if I just jump over this bridge and hurt my leg, I don't have to work for the next six months because I hated my last job.

Speaker 2 But I would never, ever, ever, ever kill myself. I'm not that, I'm not built that way.
And I've been there before when I think 2013 I realized, is this how people feel before they kill themselves?

Speaker 2 Like how sad they were. And I was like, man, that's sad.
That just made me feel sad for those who actually go through with it. Yeah.
But yeah, anyway, I would never kill myself just in case.

Speaker 1 Well, there's enough people commenting on the Epstein case that I don't think you have to worry.

Speaker 1 But the people that are in the position to actually know the people's names on the list, those people are probably in trouble.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because that's a crazy piece of information information to have.

Speaker 2 And the fact is that

Speaker 1 no one's been tried. No one's been brought up.
No one's been discussed.

Speaker 1 We know who went there. We know flight logs.
No one talks about anything. There's no effort to prosecute.
There's no effort. And then you have Ghalain Maxwell, who's in jail for sex trafficking to

Speaker 1 who?

Speaker 1 To who.

Speaker 1 You have to have done it to someone, but there's no effort at all to uncover that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I'm saying now this year, it's kind of crazy how this year started off with, what's his name, Cat Williams?

Speaker 1 Machete Sharp.

Speaker 2 He starts talking, spilling the tea, sipping the cognac. Yeah.
And then now this whole P. Diddy thing.

Speaker 1 Sometimes you have to tell Diddy no. Oh, man.
Bro. Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 Oh, man.

Speaker 1 Sean Diddy Comb's alleged list of accomplishes to be revealed soon. The names will shock you.
Attorney says, whoa.

Speaker 2 I think he's going to sing. Hey, I think.

Speaker 1 I think he has to sing a reason. But also, I'll tell you what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 God protects me. I'm so glad God protects me because,

Speaker 1 look,

Speaker 2 if I got invited to the white party I'd have gone especially if you didn't know of course no one knew no one knew and they know you're just a celebrity and you know oh Jennifer Lopez is gonna be there oh Rick Ross is gonna be there everyone's gonna be there that would be a cool place I want to meet those people facts and I just want to be there having fun partying but then they start to apparently they said they were using I'm gonna guess it's like ketamine because they said horse tranquilizer and they're putting in people's drinks in the champagne and then getting them all loose.

Speaker 2 I'll tell you a secret. It's just us two, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 After I knocked up Pereira in Miami, we went to Tootsie's the next night and they were like, Yo, P. Diddy wasn't here watching your fight last night.

Speaker 1 I was like, Wait, Word?

Speaker 2 Crazy. Then I went and checked my DMs and I saw, oh shit, he hit me up.
And he was talking about two months later, I want to do an interview or whatever. And I said, Here's my manager's number.

Speaker 1 Bob, cool.

Speaker 2 Nothing ever came off it. But again, that's why I said, God be protecting me.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Because who knows? Like, you never know. Oh, yeah, we're having this party later on.
Yeah, that's cool. Cool, cool.

Speaker 2 And then they start to like, you know, you find some chick, you pull on you, and then, boom, oh, how was that 15-year-old? Like, wait, what?

Speaker 1 Right. And you're filmed.
Yeah. I heard about that.
Yeah. He had apparently, allegedly, cameras all over the house and 100.
10,000 bottles of baby oil. Yeah.
What? Nobody's dancing, bro.

Speaker 1 A thousand bottles.

Speaker 2 Also, by the way, that's shit lube.

Speaker 2 Coconut oil is better. Fucking water-based lubricant.
But baby oil is acidic as fuck. Johnson Johnson and Johnson's.
Like, that's demonic, bro. Like, why would you use baby oil?

Speaker 1 If you fucking do it, nah, you probably started out with it. That's all the bottles.

Speaker 2 Nah, that's that's AI.

Speaker 1 That's gotta be AI.

Speaker 2 That's gotta be AI.

Speaker 1 I don't know if it's AI. I think that's real.
I think it was lube and baby oil. I think you had a variety of different substances.

Speaker 2 Who counted that? Was it a thousand? Look at that. One, two, three, four.

Speaker 1 Imagine having five

Speaker 2 bottles of baby oil on the wall.

Speaker 1 Imagine having 500 bottles and go, we need to go for a fucking target run.

Speaker 2 Nah, man. Or the fact that I said it was fucking, what do you call it, Costco, and Costco goes, nah, we don't sell that shit.

Speaker 1 What is this? Defaced AR-15s? Interesting. What does that mean? Does that mean

Speaker 1 they scratch the serial number?

Speaker 1 Whoa, that's a serious crime. Yeah, that's a serious crime.

Speaker 2 But again, see, he's in cahoots with Epstein. And then...

Speaker 1 Is he in cahoots with? Was he in cahoots with Epstein? Or was it just a similar type of an operation? No, no.

Speaker 2 They were friends. Really? Yeah, because Epstein had a fucking

Speaker 2 on on Miami as well, that really private, rich

Speaker 2 estate in Miami. So they were all in cahoots as well.
But again, I think he's going to sing.

Speaker 1 Isn't it crazy? Like, that was always the conspiracy theory, tinfoil hat thing. Oh, there's a place where the elites go to fuck underage kids.

Speaker 2 You're like, what? What's his name? Alex Jones. Alex Jones.

Speaker 1 He was right.

Speaker 2 He was right. He was right about a lot of things.

Speaker 1 About most everything. Yeah, most.

Speaker 2 About almost everything.

Speaker 1 Fucked up that one.

Speaker 1 But almost everything else, he was right. But you got to realize that that guy had been uncovering real conspiracies that the media had not covered for fucking decades.

Speaker 1 And he was literally having like a psychotic break because of it because he's just drinking all the time and dealing with the stress.

Speaker 2 How would you, even Kanye, imagine you trying to tell people something.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 And then no one believes you and they call you crazy. I go crazy just trying to explain to people.
Even

Speaker 2 I can imagine the frustration, the frustration of trying to explain to someone. And you're like, no, this is really happening.
And they're like, yeah, whatever, you're this and that.

Speaker 2 And I went down the rabbit hole in 2020, I'll tell you, I did. I had to.

Speaker 2 And for me, it was just like, I could see the fuckery.

Speaker 2 I could, look, this is

Speaker 2 the mark of the immigrant. It's right here.
If you look at any immigrant, it's just like that little dot. It's keloid.
It's from a vaccine we all had as kids all over Africa.

Speaker 2 I can't remember what it was for. So I'm not opposed to vaccines.
But when someone's trying to force you or

Speaker 2 coerce you or whatever into

Speaker 2 taking something that, like, you know, something just doesn't feel right about it. You know what I mean? Yeah.
But again, I grew up in Nigeria. I know how corruption works.
Right.

Speaker 2 So, I mean, I'm a law-abiding citizen.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying? I did my part. I, yeah, yeah, whatever.
But still, I just knew something was afoot. So I,

Speaker 2 yeah, I did my part. I played the the game because it's all a game.
I got offered different ways to play the game, but I was like,

Speaker 2 I'll find my own way. And I did.
So, yeah, stay pure, which is good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this whole thing was just money. It was just they were trying to convince everybody they needed a vaccine because they wanted to make enormous amounts of money and they pulled it off.

Speaker 2 And then now, with all the information that's come out, all the deaths,

Speaker 2 I saw that show, Die Suddenly, or whatever.

Speaker 2 And you see the blood clots from the same time that the vaccines got pushed

Speaker 2 excuse me and then everyone just goes oh

Speaker 2 oh well carry on with my dad it's like again I'm frustrated in a sense but I don't say it because I'm like we fucking told you yes but then

Speaker 1 I don't need an apology no one needs an apology but it's kind of like everyone just oh well I guess that's that and then carry on with their fucking life I was talking to a dude last night who's a veteran who was telling me that the hospital where these veterans get treated they they literally told him we are not allowed to make a connection with any of these adverse side effects to the vaccine.

Speaker 1 Even ones that are listed as vaccine side effects, they're not allowed to make that connection because they mandated the vaccine.

Speaker 1 And this is the real problem. The reason why all these corporations and all these people don't want to talk about it is because they mandated their employees to get vaccinated.

Speaker 1 So they, even though there's no liability for the vaccine manufacturers because they're exempt, which is part of the problem why they fucking propose all these things anyway, But then you're not allowed to make the connection with the problem these people are having and the fact that they got vaccinated two, three times.

Speaker 1 You're not even allowed to say that this might have been the cause of it. They're not even allowed to bring up that connection.
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 So they have to just treat whatever this side effect of the vaccine is without talking at all about the vaccine and not give any connection to it.

Speaker 2 Isn't that funny?

Speaker 1 It's through the looking glass. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like we're living in the matrix, man. It really is.
It's like there's complete mind control. And the the idea of mind control is like, no, mind control is not real.
Of course it's real.

Speaker 2 It happens. I've seen it.
So many bots, bro. Like sometimes I move through life and I feel like, look, we are all born

Speaker 2 as players in this game, but everyone gets kind of programmed through

Speaker 2 schooling or whatever, education system, society. And then they just become bots.
And I can see it as well.

Speaker 2 Because when I was bringing it up and I'd say something, even people I really love and trust sometimes and then they'd instantly, they've called it

Speaker 2 Agent Smith syndrome. Uh-huh.
And they decide, no, actually, this and that, right or right, right. I might.

Speaker 1 But you know why that is? Because they got vaccinated and they told people to get vaccinated. And they don't want to believe they made the bad decision.

Speaker 1 And they don't want to believe they coerced other people into making a bad decision. So they want to come up with all sorts of reasons why all these health problems and all these.
And then the overall

Speaker 1 all-cause mortality increase, which is through the roof. In some age brackets, it's 40%

Speaker 1 increase increase in all-cause mortality, strokes, cancer, heart attacks. All these things have gone through the roof, and no one is making a connection.

Speaker 2 Must be just, you know, the food people are eating. We're just ignoring it.

Speaker 1 It's just money.

Speaker 2 Even some people that did get it, they tell me they regret getting it. Yeah, most of them.
So many times they say, I regret getting it, but I had to, because if not, my job was going to fire me.

Speaker 2 Then I had to. And the fucking gaslighting thing, our former fucking prime minister, she did,

Speaker 2 I don't believe we we coerced anyone into getting it i don't yeah and i you just i'm like bitch you literally said if you can't if you don't get this you can't go grocery shopping yeah can't go to restaurants you can't do that can't work so your livelihood gone but then we didn't i don't think we forced anyone we didn't force your hand like when people do that's the ultimate form of gaslighting you're just like

Speaker 1 in our face the pressure was incredible the pressure was incredible and you know i felt it in the weirdest way because i saw people lying about me on CNN. I was like, this is crazy.

Speaker 2 Or the horse tranquilizer thing?

Speaker 1 Yeah, they was horse dewormer. They changed the color of my face.
They made me look yellow and sick on television.

Speaker 1 I'm like, if you do that to me, and by the way, no one gave a fuck that I got better real quick. That was the craziest part about it.
Isn't this supposed to be about recovering from a disease?

Speaker 1 Here you got a guy who's recovered in three days and is telling you all the shit he took, and you're lying.

Speaker 2 You still try to like superimpose that sepia sepia kind of filter

Speaker 2 the one that got me so because we still traveled during 2020 i did four of those miq quarantines the one where you go back to your own country and then you have to quarantine in the hotel for two weeks before you get let back into society my coach usually did nine a lot of those he even told me israel that last one luckily the last one he he was able to do it in his house but then his family had to go live somewhere else for two weeks he was just grateful he had it in his house my last one i i remember i went outside for our fucking daily outside for what 40 minutes or whatever sometimes we get shipped onto the playpen on a bus like prisoners or whatever and then i remember everyone's doing these circles just walking in a circle and i almost did a full circle one time and i was like what the fuck am i doing and then i went back into my room and i stayed in my room for the remaining uh 11 days because i just felt like like this was too much.

Speaker 2 And then also the one that got me was

Speaker 2 third one. This lady had a kid and

Speaker 2 she may be paraplegic or whatever. She had a neurological disease.
And then the kid had a seizure while the mom was having the smoke somewhere. The kid had a seizure.

Speaker 2 And one of the guys went and helped the mom with the kid. And the officer that helped the mom with the kid, they put him in quarantine for three days because he didn't have the correct PPE gear on.

Speaker 2 So that let me know

Speaker 2 this isn't about looking after people. It's about punishing this guy for disobeying the law.
Because he didn't have the... So wait, oh, someone's having a seizure.
Hold up, miss.

Speaker 2 Let me go put on this fucking overall and tape my gloves on this.

Speaker 1 While this kid's dying.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And they punished him for that.
So that let me know, like, okay, this is fuckery. This is a fought.

Speaker 1 Well, I remember when Dan Hooker had fought over here, and then he had, there was a picture of him being on the side of a fence looking at his daughter. So yeah.
It was heartbreaking. He

Speaker 2 couldn't see his daughter for like two weeks eugen had the same thing he had a newborn at the time so i i have a picture of him with his wife and his son on the other side as well and then you're just separating families all that kind of stuff look

Speaker 2 i had i like my alone time i love i might seem like a social butterfly and i am i can do both but i love my alone time and i like being inside but When you have too much alone time, that's bad.

Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. I didn't like that because then you start to go in your head with all these other things.
I mean, I didn't didn't go crazy, but there was, I was, I was dancing on the edge.

Speaker 1 Well, that was a lot of fun. I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 People on Twitter lost their fucking mind because they were on Twitter all day long, locked in their house during quarantine for, you know, months and months at a time, just literally getting mentally ill, just reading Twitter and attacking people and then blaming all these people that are unvaccinated on all the problems of the world.

Speaker 2 They just put us against each other. Yeah.
Constantly.

Speaker 1 I just hope people don't do that again. I hope people realize, like, hey, that was, no one benefited from that.
No one got better.

Speaker 1 It didn't help anybody survive. It was all bullshit.

Speaker 2 I hope there's another lockdown.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just for like a month. I think, okay, look, every year, at least for two weeks or even some places, maybe a month.
Just, all right, shut everything down. Everyone go.
It was good.

Speaker 2 Like, you get to spend time with your family or the people you live with and realize, do I fuck with these people? Or do I not? And then also

Speaker 2 build relationships and relationships, things things like that. The whole world got better.
The fucking ocean got cleaner. So I think it's good.

Speaker 2 Lockdown was good for that when it was like, okay, but not for extended periods like six months or whatever. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 That's terrible for the economy. Even a lockdown for a month is terrible for the economy.
It also takes a long time to recover. Oh, true.

Speaker 1 When everything seizes and you're not getting any packages, and like right now, there's a Teamsters and longshoreman strike in America, which means all the docks, all the shipments are coming in.

Speaker 1 No one's moving nothing. Everything's locked down.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Eventually that's all going to lock down.

Speaker 1 Eventually there's going to be nothing.

Speaker 1 If these guys keep going, it's going to cripple the economy.

Speaker 1 Right now it's only been a couple of days, but the head of the Longshoremen's Union was talking about what effect it's going to have. And you basically say, I want to do it.
Why are they doing it?

Speaker 1 Because they want more money.

Speaker 1 They feel like they have a more valuable position than they're being compensated for. And this is the best way that they can negotiate.

Speaker 1 Like, you guys need to understand how valuable we are to your society. You take us for granted.
Yeah. You don't want to give us what's fair.
And so we're going to fuck you. True.

Speaker 1 And they haven't had a lockdown like that since 1977.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Damn. Like I said, it's a real one.

Speaker 1 It's a real one. It's a scary one, too, because

Speaker 1 they have immense power and they haven't flexed it before. And they're flexing it now.

Speaker 1 And they're flexing it like right before an election, which is who knows what kind of effect that's going to have.

Speaker 1 Because if the economy tanks because of that, and they can blame Biden and Kamala Harris, you know, it could, it could get crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I will see. When that started, like a week ago, two weeks ago?

Speaker 1 A couple days ago. Oh, really? I think it was October 1st.
Shit. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Interesting. I always like it.

Speaker 2 Look, I love America, but I like watching it from New Zealand.

Speaker 2 I love, like, when I come here, I love the food, like the fucking, you know, Shake Shack or just delicious. Like, last night, took so long for this burger or something, Austin, to get to our hotel.

Speaker 2 But then when it got there, we just smashed like all these smashed burgers. I ate three of them so good.
And I go back home and i eat clean i get my body right again but

Speaker 2 here i love it even um when trump won i was stuck here for in san diego for about eight weeks that's when i went to atos jiu-jitsu and i got really really good at jiu-jitsu for a while um

Speaker 2 me and my teammates we just thought like when trump wins we need to have food for four days because it's gonna be crazy this it's gonna because from where we are in new zealand the camera only shows you this

Speaker 2 so trump wins We're looking outside, like, okay, it's safe, cool, everyone's, and nothing's really happening. We see, you know, Trump flags on someone's loan, Biden, whatever on someone's loan still.

Speaker 2 It's fine. But then someone explained to me that even the Capitol riots

Speaker 2 and DC, they face the cameras this way. If you just turn the cameras this way, you'll see the rest of the street just normal.

Speaker 2 So from New Zealand, when we see what's happening here, it's just the biggest, craziest sitcom.

Speaker 2 And again, like I said, I love America, but I like watching it from New Zealand. But I do enjoy being here.

Speaker 2 But again, watching it from New Zealand, we have our own chaos to deal with, but this one is just juicy.

Speaker 1 It's a different kind of chaos. The whole world's watching.
That's what's different because America is such a weird country that the whole world is watching when we have elections.

Speaker 2 Even, look, Trump just got almost assassinated.

Speaker 1 Twice. Twice.
Twice. What? It was the second assassination attempt.
No. Yeah, there was a guy who got caught with an AK-47.

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Speaker 2 I missed all this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because they took it in and out of the news in like a heartbeat.

Speaker 2 There was a shootout.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 the Secret Service shot at him. He fled.
I don't think he shot at the Secret Service. He fled and then they caught him.

Speaker 2 So this is before or after the

Speaker 1 after.

Speaker 1 Okay, I see. So this is a guy who's a real lunatic.
He went over Ukraine to fight for the Ukraine forces. It's a crazy person.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And this guy was somehow or another armed to the tits, even though it's illegal for him to be carrying a gun. He's a convicted felon.
And he almost assassinated Trump, and it was out.

Speaker 1 of the news cycle in a couple of days.

Speaker 2 I missed that completely. I didn't even know about it.
This is news cycles.

Speaker 1 How do they gloss over it? They don't give a fuck.

Speaker 2 But again, how do you gloss over that? The one with the when he got shot and he just turned his ear. Crazy.
There's so many things fucked up with that. You know why?

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm sure you've already talked about about this to other people, but it's just the fact that it's just, they apparently saw him on the roof for, what, nine minutes or something beforehand and just watched them.

Speaker 2 So many things actually.

Speaker 1 Everything's wrong with that.

Speaker 1 Everything's wrong. It wasn't really Secret Service.
A lot of those are Homeland Security.

Speaker 2 The lady with the gun that she took up.

Speaker 1 Fumbling with the gun.

Speaker 1 Full panic. Yeah, the whole thing was madness.
And the fact that that went out of the news cycle real quickly, too. Nobody cares about the fact they almost killed that guy.

Speaker 2 Now it's about the debate. It's about the debate.

Speaker 1 And they went right back to calling calling him a threat to democracy, a threat to our society. And like, hey, who is that kid? How did he die?

Speaker 1 What happened there? How did he get a hold of those detonators? How did his apartment get completely professionally scrubbed? When they went to that kid's house, there was no silverware.

Speaker 1 His house was professionally scrubbed.

Speaker 2 And he lived by himself. Isn't he a teenager? 20 years old.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, he was in a BlackRock commercial.

Speaker 2 BlackRock, the company.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he was in a BlackRock commercial. Okay.

Speaker 1 And then, yeah, dude, there's so much to that story. And here's the thing: if he kills Trump and then they kill him, who knows? It's all lost.
It's all in the wind. Oh, lone shooter, crazy person.

Speaker 1 Unfortunately, got a hold of Trump. You know what we need to do? Take everyone's guns.
Yeah. Because gun violence is a real problem in this country.
You know what's also a problem? Mind control.

Speaker 1 Like, what did you do to that kid? What drugs was he on? No toxicology examination. They burned his body in 10 days.

Speaker 1 FBI took a hold of the body. So they didn't even bury him.
No, they fucking cremated his ass. Fuck.

Speaker 2 See, yeah. This is is what I like.
I just get the popcorn. I just go, yeah.

Speaker 1 It's nuts. It's a crazy.
Because he would have been Lee Harvey Oswald, too. I mean, just like Lee Harvey Oswald allegedly shoots JFK.
Jack Ruby walks up to him. Bam.
Shoots him. He's dead.

Speaker 1 What happened? Who knows?

Speaker 2 That's the whole magic bullet theory. Again, I've gone down that rabbit hole to a point where I saw that it might have been the driver.

Speaker 1 Nah.

Speaker 2 No? Nah. Okay.
Nah.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 multiple shooters.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's bullshit. Multiple shooters for sure.
Most likely people in the grassy knoll and most likely probably somebody from where Oswald was as well. It might have even been Oswald.

Speaker 1 Oswald might have taken a shot as well.

Speaker 2 I saw this video.

Speaker 1 You can't trust shit these days. No.

Speaker 2 Bro, I swear next year, I think next year it'll be when it's like you have to really know what you're watching. I'll have to question everything.

Speaker 2 Because now it's fingers, text. I can kind of, oh, that's a bullshit.
And also there's a little texture. There's a texture with the AI videos.
And I'm like, that's AI. For now.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Next year. You're going to get better and better.
Yeah, I got a piss. Let's take a leak real quick.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'll take a piss as well. Talking about my documentary.
It's

Speaker 2 great. So we're talking about, what were we talking about before? Oh, we just went on a tangent about fucking chemtrails and shit.

Speaker 2 No, but I was just telling Jamie about my documentary. I said, like, he should watch it as well.
I said, even if it wasn't about me, I'd still recommend it because it was a well-made,

Speaker 2 not-so-sporty, sportsy film.

Speaker 2 Like, one of the best pictures I got sent was this lady knitting on a plane and and then watching it and I thought that was like an old lady not her demographic watching it man she's watching me through a documentary knitting because it was something that

Speaker 2 it was different

Speaker 2 when did they start filming this uh they came on board

Speaker 2 20

Speaker 2 2018 we started talking um and then they came on board

Speaker 2 with their cameras. But Jeff St.
Lair, who is my videographer, works for Zuck now, literally does everything. But yeah, he had a lot of behind the scenes footage.

Speaker 2 And we just put it all together talking about my kind of

Speaker 2 rise in this game, but also dealing with the, I guess, the pressures of all this, you know?

Speaker 2 Because no one, there's no book on how to be famous. Right.
I had to learn this on my own. I had to learn this myself.

Speaker 1 What was the most difficult part of it for you?

Speaker 2 For me, I think people, I just didn't expect that. I knew I wanted to be, when you grow up, you think, I want to be rich and famous.

Speaker 2 Like when, you know, the MTV Cribs era, the Pimp My Right era, I thought, yo, when I'm rich, I'm going to have seven cars, one for every day of the week. I'm going to have this many houses.

Speaker 2 I have real estate now differently. But also, I only need two cars.
Like, there's all these other stuff that comes through. Also, I'm not a car person like you.
I just like Hartwheels.

Speaker 2 But, but not combining that.

Speaker 1 But you have the McLaren, though.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's what I'm saying. My best reaction when I wrapped it was, I love seeing little boys be like,

Speaker 2 when they see it, but now I've put it back to black and I'm going to do something different to it later on with some airbrushing. Not me, my guy, Maddie Bro.
But yeah,

Speaker 2 it was just people. There's even a bit in this documentary where

Speaker 2 they would just film me one day and then these kids are like,

Speaker 2 they just drove by my house and went,

Speaker 2 oh my God. And they beat the horn.
And it kind of gave me a fright. And they came to my door.

Speaker 2 And then the camera was filming. So it's in the documentary.
And

Speaker 2 I explained to them, Oh, it's cool, let's take a photo,

Speaker 2 but then it got to a point where it'd be like 9 p.m., 10 p.m. And then,

Speaker 2 yeah, I was starving at home because my street, my house, my front door was accessible to the street. That was my first house I ever bought.

Speaker 2 Now, David lives there, that's his home, and I live in this fucking complex that has a gate and a code. So, if you have to get to my front door, you have to be there.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 yeah, just dealing with people was the main thing for me because I didn't expect the attention I was getting. I was expecting it, but I guess the variable of the unknown.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, I just had to learn how to protect my energy and protect my some boundaries. You know what I mean? Like today after lunch, excuse me,

Speaker 2 I'd say yes to photos, but if I feel like, say, I'm at the airport, if I say yes to, you've had this before, where you say yes to one and people are like, oh, he's taking photos, and it becomes like a zombie apocalypse.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, yo, I got to go somewhere. So if I tell someone like, yo, I can't right now.
If I say yes to you, I got to say, oh, please, just one. And I'm like, it's not just one.
Right.

Speaker 2 You don't understand. Yeah.
And then I'm the asshole. And I love my fans and I love people who actually support me.
And I try and make time for them. But then also I have to make time for me.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because I've been there before where it's pretty much I'm just there. And then, oh, my turn, my turn.

Speaker 2 I'm like, bro, I'm not even having fun. I don't even have kids yet, but when I have kids, that's when I'm going to be like, nah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, my youngest daughter won't have it. She'll grab me and drag me away.
Good. Like when people try to take photographs, she hates it.
Good.

Speaker 1 My middle daughter doesn't, it doesn't bother her that much, but the youngest daughter, she gets fucking angry. Like, they're stealing my daddy's attention from me.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 Yeah. For me, even if I, okay, when, if I go on a date or whatever and someone sees me and tries to take a photo, I just go, I'm on her time right now.
You have to ask her.

Speaker 2 Or if I'm with my family, I just say no.

Speaker 1 Especially when you're sitting down having dinner. That's crazy.
When they come up to the table, like, come on, man, get the fuck out of here.

Speaker 2 I think social awareness this day and age. And everyone, you know what? It's funny.
I can feel it coming once they see me because they look like they're about to pull out a gun. Right.

Speaker 2 That's what it feels like. Every time they do it, I'm just like, and I say yes to most of it, but there's times I'll say no.

Speaker 2 So that would be, I'd say, the most difficult thing so far was just dealing with people.

Speaker 2 But again, I do like people, but also I don't like some people. Some people just so entitled.
Entitled. They just come up at you and it's just like...

Speaker 1 They feel like you owe them something because they know who you are.

Speaker 2 I'm like you're not even a fan sometimes it's it's this thing where they just see people taking photos like i want a photo too right i'm like you don't even know what i do but oh can i get one please

Speaker 2 who are you yeah oh yeah i love that you know why i like it when someone doesn't genuinely know who i am but when they oh i'm sorry i don't know you i'm like it's okay my name's israel because i got to meet them on a first name basis right but one of the best ones and the best replies i gave one time was these three chicks and or two guys they were just you know oh my god fan fan fan.

Speaker 2 And one of them was like, excuse me, but who are you?

Speaker 1 I was like, I don't know. It's always a girl.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then she came back again, like three more times. I'm like, excuse me, but like, who are you? I don't even know who you are.
And I was like, bitch, I don't know who you are.

Speaker 2 And then her face was just like,

Speaker 2 and I just left it alone. But again, I prefer meeting people on a first name basis.
Right.

Speaker 2 It makes me feel like I get to know you and you get to know me without some preconceived notion of what you've seen on TV or YouTube.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
I love when someone doesn't know who I am now. Meet me.
That's what it's nice. Now I can have a regular conversation with someone.
You know, I'm like, what do you do?

Speaker 1 You're like, oh, I'm a comedian. Oh, have you ever been on television? Yeah, a couple of times.
Oh, I'll look out for you. Okay, good.

Speaker 2 No, I like those. In that way, it's just a lot of people.

Speaker 1 Just the two people talking to each other.

Speaker 1 I like what you said, protect your energy. Because that's really what it is.
Because if you give up your energy to everyone, you will get lost. Yeah.
You will get lost.

Speaker 2 I learned that

Speaker 2 the week before the Robot Whitaker fight in Melbourne. So I had this epiphany and then did the fight, did well.

Speaker 2 And And again, you know how I told you after my UFC debut, it was all this attention and stimulus. And when I went home, boom.
Right. And for like a month, I just felt sad.

Speaker 2 And I'm thinking like, nothing's wrong. I'm so fucking, like, I should be happy.
I should be happy. Right.
And that's when I started going to therapy.

Speaker 2 But then I learned through the techniques and tools I've got from that how to protect myself.

Speaker 2 So before the rub fight, I felt the same thing again because my girl at the time had to drag me away from the after party because I hid in the after party. I hid in the toilet.

Speaker 2 I had a drink.

Speaker 1 Jesus Christ put all the seats down, just sat there.

Speaker 2 And then she's like, Where are you? I'm like, I'm in the toilet. So I just sent a text and she's like, nah, I'm coming to grab you.
So we went to go get rhyming somewhere.

Speaker 2 And then at the hotel, before I flew out, I just put out something on my story saying, look, guys. I appreciate the love and all that.
If you see me, you can come say what's up.

Speaker 2 But if you come yelling at me, I'm just going to walk away. It's the yelling thing.
And I think that's learnt behavior.

Speaker 1 They say, oh my God, Joe Rogan, I'm a.

Speaker 2 And same rhetoric. I'm a huge fan.
I've loved you since this. I've watched you since this.
And it's the same, like bot responses. Yeah.
NPC responses. And they're yelling.

Speaker 2 But if someone just comes up, like, hey, man, I'm a big fan. Do you mind if I take a pic? Cool, let's go.
And they make it quick. They're ready.
They're not going, oh, excuse me.

Speaker 2 What are you doing here? Right. I'm just like, yo.
Don't hold me hostage. Let's just go.
Like, take the picture. I like those.

Speaker 2 But if we have a genuine connection and I vibe with someone and we end up talking for like five minutes, even better. But you can't try and facilitate that.
But yeah, it's when people come.

Speaker 1 And then they hang around. And then they won't leave.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I'm just, don't hold me hostage with your conversation.
There's a.

Speaker 1 Do you remember the first time you met a famous person?

Speaker 1 You. I did something real silly.

Speaker 1 You won't remember this.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 this is another one of those things.

Speaker 2 I can tell you not because we're boys. But I met you at UFC 192 when Dan fought Yayer.
And I met you backstage at the Wayans.

Speaker 2 And then I came to say what's up and then I did fucking bought shit bro

Speaker 2 then I was like bro do you remember my friend Chris he took a photo with you and that's a video huh and you're like yeah a lot of people do that and I was like oh yeah

Speaker 2 and then for the next like five hours idiot

Speaker 1 Why'd you say that?

Speaker 2 And I just felt cringe. But I got over it eventually.
But again, it's one of those things that you learn. um

Speaker 2 yeah certain things i learned even with snoop one time at staples center when it was a staple center i ended up smoking with him but then i filmed it and then afterwards i remember thinking like why did you do that like you should have just enjoyed the moment right and i cringe at myself when i like i'm like oh

Speaker 2 Who doesn't want to fucking smoke with Snoop Dogg? But why did I have to film it so I can show people? I don't even think I did I post it? I did post it. Yeah, of course I posted it.

Speaker 2 But again, it's one of those things I learned now. So there's people I've met, places I've been now that I just, I enjoyed the experience, and it is what it is.
I don't need a photo. It's in here.

Speaker 2 I've taken snapshots.

Speaker 1 Well, but you've had those experiences. That's where I give people grace when they're first meeting me.
It's like, I get it. I remember the first time I met someone famous.
It's weird. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's a weird feeling.

Speaker 2 You don't remember that one, do you?

Speaker 1 I don't. Good.

Speaker 2 Oh, for the next five hours up to the next day. I think the fights, yeah, the next day, I was just like, okay, then I kind of got over it.
And I just think.

Speaker 2 And I told Chris when I went home, yeah, I told him about that, and I felt so stupid.

Speaker 2 It's like, oh, but I know now it's better because when I meet people I really appreciate, I don't geek out or whatnot, even if it's something, I'm just like, yo, that's that person.

Speaker 2 I kind of bird watch them, and if they recognize me, one of the coolest ones was Eminem in Saudi Arabia because everyone was trying to get a photo.

Speaker 2 And then my guy, Ayak Security, just goes, Hey, Em, Israel, would I like to get for it? He goes, Oh, yo, what's up? And he came and took a photo with me. And I, out of everyone,

Speaker 2 he let me take a photo with him so i was like yeah i felt cool because it's eminent you know what i mean so things like that i'll appreciate and certain moments like that i appreciate but i don't i don't force it i don't try and facilitate it i just let it be i just let it be and if i get it cool and i don't need it that's the thing you don't need to take a photo for everything just enjoy the moment just enjoy the moment enjoy the interaction enjoy the energy but i understand the weirdness of meeting someone famous because i do remember it it's just it's an odd feeling you don't know what to do you feel weird you say dumb things you don't know why you're saying them and then you're like what did i just do i'm better now the coolest one i think i had was trump uh where was this vegas at the fights i haven't even the the clip was one of the ufc's thing

Speaker 2 uh documentaries and i someone's like oh yo america's last hope what's up i dapped them up and dana's there just smiling and then we're talking we just dapping up and talking and then he's like android you'll fight this and that right

Speaker 2 and it wasn't weird because again i can understand like i'm meant to be here now right

Speaker 1 sometimes i I get

Speaker 2 imposter syndrome. Sometimes it still creeps in.
I don't know if you still get it. Yeah.
It still creeps in, but I know how to identify it now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I go, right, I'm going to shut it down like any emotion. But yeah, that was one of the cooler ones I had where I was, okay, I handled myself well.
I wasn't an idiot. And many other ones.

Speaker 2 But yeah, the ones, and there will be more.

Speaker 1 I used to get imposter syndrome so bad. Yeah.
Where I meet people like, I can't believe you know who I am. I got to hide.
You shouldn't know who I am. I know who you are.
You should know me.

Speaker 1 I'm not a good person.

Speaker 2 I felt that a little bit yesterday, but

Speaker 2 I went to the mothership. A little bit.
But again, you watch it on YouTube all the time. You're like, oh my God, me and my wife's like, we're here.
This is cool.

Speaker 2 And then only for a little bit, but I realized, oh, I meant to be here because everyone's standing around me. I'm kind of

Speaker 2 having to hold court, but I kind of just want to shut up and just be like.

Speaker 1 Yeah. This is cool.
Just enjoy.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But everyone's around me.
And I was just cool. And IRI was the man, bro.
He's just such a, he's a funny dude. So tall.
And talking about kickboxing with him.

Speaker 2 And and yeah but i'll probably head there tonight see what's up and i'll try and it's a fun place no geek out so much yeah

Speaker 1 play it cool play it cool yeah

Speaker 1 that's a fun place we have so many people roll through it too it's it's so interesting like all sudden jelly rolls there yeah you know now you guys did it man like you literally i think was it ron white that kind of started the

Speaker 2 you know, the idea and then all of you started to just march to Austin one by one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he came here before the pandemic. Yeah.
And he was the one that put it in my head because, you know, Rams, I fucking love it here. It's easy to travel.

Speaker 2 I can see the middle of the country.

Speaker 1 It's a beautiful place. No traffic.
People are nice.

Speaker 2 I just came back from L.A., so the contrast is definitely, you can see it.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's so much better here. And it's better for comedy.
It's just because it's the only club in the country that's owned by a comedian. Sure.
It's free. It's like you can beat yourself.

Speaker 1 There's no executives or producer. Yeah, it's just me.
I don't even have any partners. So wait.
It's just me.

Speaker 2 Excuse me. When you say that, you mean like,

Speaker 2 do people have to pay at other comedy clubs to perform there?

Speaker 1 Only when you're very, very beginning, and it's corrupt comedy clubs that you have to pay for stage time. Yeah,

Speaker 1 that's not normal. That's something taking advantage of amateurs so they can make extra money, so they could justify open mic nights and stuff like that.
But that's not a lot of clubs.

Speaker 1 Most clubs, you know, you have amateur nights.

Speaker 1 They all should have it, but some, we have two nights. We have two nights of open mic nights.
So we just want to make it a real place where people can develop. Yeah.

Speaker 1 From the very beginning, you could do your first set on stage ever at the mothership and eventually headline there someday. I've seen it.

Speaker 2 Cam Patterson, some of these guys, they started there and now they're just

Speaker 1 killing it. Yeah, hard work.
Yeah. Hard work, just grinding.
That kid's in that club every fucking night.

Speaker 1 He's always, and he's traveling all over the place, all over town, doing different clubs, going on the road. He's, you know, he's doing, he's making the most of the experience.

Speaker 2 And for someone like me, just a fan of comedy in general, it's fun to see the process of them starting up.

Speaker 2 And then, because I was telling her, I used to listen to Kill Tony in my old job just so I didn't go postal.

Speaker 2 I was just like, sit there with my headphones in and the hoodie on just to hide it so they don't know I'm doing it.

Speaker 2 I'm just like, and then now to see where it's become and then, you know, where on the street is, they go

Speaker 2 coming up. And I'm like, oh, shit.
So it's going to be on there and it's going to be even bigger. Yeah, I mean, it's fun to see that.
And I've seen a lot of comics like just grow

Speaker 2 and And then seeing their sets develop, all that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 And look,

Speaker 2 I know how hard it is now just watching that. Because you think, oh, I've made a joke before.
I can do it. Nah.
And seeing people bomb on Kill Tony after just 60 seconds.

Speaker 2 I just like, yeah, nah, fuck all that. I'd fight in front of millions of people with the stand in front of a crowd and try and make them laugh.

Speaker 2 Just that, yeah.

Speaker 1 It's a weird kind of rejection.

Speaker 2 Thank you. That's what it is.
It's like, oh, shit, that didn't land.

Speaker 2 escape escape escape

Speaker 1 you're just like nah fuck this but you also see other people can do it so you got to figure out a way to do it and it's that's part of the challenge of it all it's why it's so exciting to succeed yeah because it's not easy guys the expert it's hard you know but it's also fun i mean it's the most fun thing to do for a living and you could do it forever you know you don't you have to rely on your body being fit enough to do it you know fighting fighting is so unique because there's a small window you have from you know 18 to maybe 38 if you're lucky.

Speaker 1 Or you could be a Yoel Romero and compete deep into your 40s, but he's the rarest of the rare. Or Bernard Hopkins,

Speaker 1 world championship level at 50. Crazy.
But those are the outliers. For most people, there's a small window.

Speaker 2 Make the most of it, Nick.

Speaker 1 And in MMA, that window is the smallest. Yeah.
It's the smallest of all the combat sports.

Speaker 2 That even make it to the top.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but God, think about how many guys have an amateur fight versus how many guys

Speaker 1 make it to just a world title fight just a fight for a world title and forget about defending the world title like what you've done is like the rarest of the rarest of the rare and then win it back again you know it's so rare yeah like

Speaker 2 i've seen people throughout the walks of life and gyms i've trained at that i'm like

Speaker 2 i think you're better than me but they just never made it they never got the experience or the exposure also when the lights are on they shut down yeah and they don't show up and i'm like you're better than what i than this

Speaker 2 but again Gym champions.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, that's a real thing, man.
With people that perform so well with no pressure. And then when that pressure is on, they're like 30% of what they are.
You see them make the mental mistakes.

Speaker 1 You see them rush in. And

Speaker 1 it's weird.

Speaker 2 It takes skill to learn how to perform under the lights, but also you have to have that thing.

Speaker 2 Like you have to know you're that guy or you have to have that belief in yourself. So again, I'm glad I've done it and I'm glad I'm doing it.
But now I'm just like, I just want to fight.

Speaker 2 I just want to fight, have fun. And again, it's weird.
Like, I just know that fucking gold belt always circles back around.

Speaker 2 I don't chase it, never have, and I knew it would always be there at some point. But yeah, it will.

Speaker 2 And in the moment, bro, if I'm not happy with what I've done in this game, what's going to make me happy?

Speaker 1 Right, right. How could you be? Exactly.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 I mean, think about how many times you defended the title, you won the title, you beat the greatest guys of your generation.

Speaker 1 How could you not be happy with what you've done already?

Speaker 2 But I still feel great and again it's this is you know when um fighters talk about i lost the belt i felt this pressure lifted whatever i never felt that when i lost it in msg i was just like i'm gonna fight this guy again and i got it back but then when i lost it um

Speaker 2 not to strickland but even this last one there's the only time when i was just like eh I didn't wasn't a champ, I guess, but this last fight was the first time I felt that like,

Speaker 2 well, but I still feel like I'm that guy because a lot of people still have that target on my back because I'm Israel I disonia. But having to fight for the belt, having to fight

Speaker 2 with that thing, I don't know. This is the first time I've ever felt that where I'm like, meh, I'm good.
So I'm just going to see what happens. Train, get better, and fight again at some point.

Speaker 1 Just concentrate on the task instead of this whole thing of the titles.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because I feel like when you have the title, there's all the spotlight on you. There still is a spotlight on me, but it's not the same thing.

Speaker 2 And now I get to enjoy a little bit more almost freedom in a sense. But I've heard fighters talk about it heaps.

Speaker 2 So again, for me, I never felt it till recently that I'm like, oh, I get what they mean now when they talk about the pressure. The pressure is still there, but it's not the same.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, cool, I get to just fight for me now. I get to have fun.
Yeah, just I want to try some crazy shit. Like, I should want to fight and just do some...

Speaker 2 I want to go back to the way I used to fight when

Speaker 2 we didn't have so much on the line because it's not just about me it's about the people that are around me that you know i have to

Speaker 2 not have to but you know like if i do good everybody eats you know what i mean

Speaker 2 so now that we still do good we still eat but it's like ah fuck the belt we'll just have fun So I just want to go back to having fun.

Speaker 2 The way I used to fight when I was a young fucking schizo fritter who just did shit for fun. Like the fucking Tavares fight in the round one.

Speaker 2 I'm like, I'm going to try Eminari Roll and see what that does. And I kind of missed it.
But yeah, I'm going to bring that back. I kind of want to do that, that kind of shit again.

Speaker 1 So do you think that like as the stakes are higher, the pressure is more and it just restricts your creativity? It restricts your ability to just be loose?

Speaker 2 It didn't at first. But the longer you defend the belt, it happened to Anderson as well.
It happened to Anderson as well.

Speaker 2 I saw it because I watched Anderson's rise and I saw the, even to the point where people wanted him to lose just because he was so great.

Speaker 2 And then it's just that natural thing where people build you up because they want to tear you down.

Speaker 2 And I felt that happen to me as well. They're like, oh, we just want to see him lose.
And when it happened, they're like, yeah.

Speaker 2 And then when I won it again, it's like, yeah.

Speaker 2 And I lost it.

Speaker 1 They're like, yeah. So it's just natural.

Speaker 2 It's a natural way of, I don't know, the mob. of humans or whatever, the fans, it's just how it is.
The Coliseum.

Speaker 1 Well, there's always a bunch of people that don't like that you've accomplished something they will never accomplish.

Speaker 2 Oh, there's always them.

Speaker 1 And so they do want to watch you fall because it makes them feel better about their lack of success.

Speaker 2 What did Dave say?

Speaker 2 Someone rejoices when a great man falls. It was a great quote he had in one of the specials, the cowards.

Speaker 1 That's the truth.

Speaker 2 Yeah, facts. I've seen it.
I've even felt it as well. Like when you're just like, I wonder what will happen if he loses.
Like, it'll just shake the whole landscape of things up. So you just wonder.

Speaker 2 Like, I felt it, I think, with Floyd. I just wonder.
Not that I wanted him to lose because I'm a big Floyd fan But I was just like what would happen if he lost this fight?

Speaker 2 You're like oh shit, and but that's what makes it exciting You never know, you know, but yeah, anyway, I'm just here now, and I'm just like cool Let's have fun. Let's fight.

Speaker 2 Let's just get some, you know, some good matchups. But again, I'm in a spot now that you've got Rob comes out fighting.
DDP and Sean are going to fight. And I can't think of

Speaker 1 who else. Is DDP and Sean set in stone?

Speaker 2 I think it's not set in stone, but it's what they're looking at yeah when is that supposed to take place next year sometime but I'm trying to get something in this year so we'll see there's already a few call outs you know here and there but

Speaker 2 the guy that just won in France I forget his name did he win the not the main event

Speaker 2 Imanov yeah he said something and I'm like

Speaker 2 we'll see it'll be a good fight it'll be fun but again what has he done he beat Brandon Allen you know what and is that five round worthy because I'm never doing three rounds again.

Speaker 2 All my fights are probably going to be five. If I ever do a three-round again, fuck, let's go.

Speaker 1 Would you want to?

Speaker 1 Because, like, there's some three-rounders that I feel like we got robbed that it wasn't a five-rounder, like Saryukian and Charles Oliveira. That was a good, that was a good example.
Scrap.

Speaker 1 That was such a crazy example.

Speaker 1 Oliveira almost caught him a couple times with submissions. Yeah, man.

Speaker 1 lost a controversial decision, like very close decision. And then I feel like you give him two more rounds.
Who knows what would happen? Another one was

Speaker 1 Hamzat and Kamaro. Oh, yeah.
That third round, Kamaro was coming on strong. Off the couch as well.
Yeah, off the couch. 10 days, 10 days' notice.
Crazy.

Speaker 1 Fighting at 85, 170-pound champion, right off the title loss. And then, you know, third round, he wins.
And you're like, God, what would have happened fourth and fifth?

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's where some people come alive these days.

Speaker 1 Especially champions. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah, I can't do five, but again, I said three.
I just feel like I would fight like

Speaker 2 a bat out of hell. I just feel like it would be different.
But again, it's not even...

Speaker 2 I do enjoy the time in the cage, but even training for five-round fights, a lot of people train for three-round fights, but they don't understand.

Speaker 2 Everyone wants to be champion, so you got to train for five rounds. And it's like, oh, shit, you got to do this shit.
You have five rounds of the spider circuit. Oh, shit.
That's where you find out.

Speaker 2 the men from the boys. You separate.
So yeah, I do like a five-round fight. And also, you don't get paid by the rounds.
So sometimes fights end like that. So yeah, that's up to you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So do you have a timeline of like when you would like to fight again, how many fights you would like to have? Because I know you're 35 now.

Speaker 1 How long do you think you're going to do this?

Speaker 2 I don't know. Like I said, I thought I would be 34 and I'm done with this.
I always just thought like, yeah, when I'm 34, I'm done. But then I'm here now and I feel great.
So I'm like...

Speaker 2 Let's see. Three more years.
Who knows? Who knows? Fucking kid might come out of nowhere. I'm like, oh, shit, shit, I'm done with this game.

Speaker 1 Is there any fights that, like, like Strickland that you'd like to do again?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, Strickland and DDP. Strickland won, definitely, because that fight was not me.
And again, I don't make excuses. It was just another Dave Chappelle quote.

Speaker 2 You have to realize when it's your time.

Speaker 2 He's such a fucking philosopher with it. He said something about like, when it's your time, you have to know when it and be humble enough to know when it's someone else's.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 That was just his week. That was just his and everything.
So I just, you know, his his time, let him have it.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 I definitely know what I can do. And I took his best shots.
And I just know, like,

Speaker 2 yeah, I can take this guy. I know what I can do.
Not similar to the Pereira one where, you know, I was winning, but this one, I definitely know what I can do with this guy.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it was that one shot that cracked you in that first round that changed the whole momentum of that fight? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Straight punches, beat, looping, or linear punches. He caught me good.

Speaker 2 And in the moment, I remember thinking, thinking like oh shit this nigga's hitting me oh shit he's hitting me and I went to Mark Goddard like you see the picture like I'm okay and then even he told me my next fight with DP's like don't do that don't have to do that you just have to find a way out but it was hitting me and I was thinking like oh shit this is really happening fuck and I had to fight out the position and just get back on him but yeah how much damage did he do in that exchange In that exchange, nah, not really much, just the one shot.

Speaker 2 The one shot was the one that got me. But the rest was just kind of like, nothing really got through, it's just a lot of flurries, and it looked violent.

Speaker 2 But that's why I was able to look at Mark and be like, Yeah, we're good. But yeah, um, gotta come back.
See what happens with him and DDP. Uh, he could win,

Speaker 2 you know, beat him.

Speaker 1 And then we almost won the first time, yeah.

Speaker 2 It was close, very, it was close, very close. Yeah, it was, yeah, that was a rough fight, even at the end, they were just swinging.

Speaker 1 So they had nothing left in the tank, like you see, Strickland was like it was all arms, arms, yeah. There was nothing in the tank, yeah.
They emptied out.

Speaker 2 Well, we'll see, we'll see what happens in that fight. And yeah, at the moment, I just, look, I kind of like the feeling of not knowing because sometimes people ask, who are you going to fight next?

Speaker 2 When are you going to fight again? I'm like, I don't know. I'm just chilling.
So again, I'm just going to keep training. And sometimes short-noticed shit happens.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 And it's like, well, I'm already in shape.

Speaker 2 Fuck, let's go. Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But we'll see. So stay ready.
Yeah, stay ready. Like I said, I've done the testing already and I know where I'm at.
After this, I'm going to go get some work in.

Speaker 2 And yeah, even on the road, bro, I love this food there, but fuck. I know when I get home, I'm going to have to take all this off.

Speaker 2 I know it will come off because I've got, you know, good nutritionists now and stuff. But yeah, I just try to stay ready.

Speaker 1 You guys don't have barbecue in New Zealand? No, we do.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 You have like a Terry Black's in New Zealand?

Speaker 2 Yeah, they have.

Speaker 2 The food there, I think the quality is different. But also, I try to stay off Uber Eats as much as possible.
Now I have Matt cooking for me. So if I want something, I'll see something on the reels.

Speaker 2 Matt, can you please make this? He'd be like, yeah, cool boom and he'll just make it that night and you know

Speaker 2 in it yeah in camp it'll be healthy but right now i can i can stretch my legs a little bit

Speaker 2 add some cheese whatever but um yeah

Speaker 1 i just stay ready that's the main thing just stay ready your camp that city kickboxing gym is what a fucking gym that is like there's so many killers coming out of that and oldberg now on the rise yeah goddamn that dude's good yeah there's so many

Speaker 1 yeah he's so tall and dangerous. There's so many good fighters coming out of there now.

Speaker 2 Even recently

Speaker 2 We had Cam Aaron to and then Navajo fight on the contender series. Navajo was the only one to get a contract and he got it with a hook actually.
I don't know if you saw that fight. I didn't.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Navajo Sterling. He knocked out the guy in the second round.
So now he's in the UFC. He got a contract and he's going to fight this year.
I think in December.

Speaker 2 So he's already in camp for his next fight because he was kind of fresh coming off that fight. So yeah, he's another guy that

Speaker 2 this guy. That's him, yeah.
The guy in the red

Speaker 2 big nav, boom. And it set him up.

Speaker 1 Boom, boom.

Speaker 2 Out. And the guy at fault was tough too.
Came strong in the first round, but Navajo was able to just put him away. Another King in the Ring champion as well.

Speaker 2 I think he's two-time King in the Ring champion.

Speaker 1 What weight is that at?

Speaker 2 Light, heavyweight.

Speaker 1 Damn, that's a big fellow.

Speaker 2 So he's the guy. My Miami fight with Pareta.
He helped me a lot. Ben Johnston helped me a lot with the looks, you know.

Speaker 2 But yeah, he's just a fucking

Speaker 2 Savant the next level kickboxer, but knows how to grapple. He looks at shit, downloads it, drills it, and he's using it on you straight away or the next day.

Speaker 2 It's just one of those guys, and he loves to fight. He's a guy who just stays in the gym, stays ready.
Like I said, he's got a fight already locked in. Even losses go to fight.
Ozdemir.

Speaker 2 He's fighting Ozdemir in Macau.

Speaker 2 You know, what's his name? No No time.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Volka.

Speaker 2 Today, yeah, Volka, Ozemir. Yeah, that's a good fight.
I like that for Carlos.

Speaker 2 Who else? Yeah, so I like the gym, the way it's growing.

Speaker 2 Even on the local scene as well, you have a lot of guys who are just coming up in the local scene and they're looking at us because of what we've done. No government funding, no backing from

Speaker 2 the sports, what do you call it in New Zealand? They try to stifle us during COVID, you know, moving the goalposts saying, oh, you can quarantine in the gym. Okay, now you can't quarantine in the gym.

Speaker 2 We're sneaking around trying to find places to train they're following us with reporters taking photos putting us in the papers making us look bad we're disobeying the law think about your grandma

Speaker 2 all that kind of stuff so yeah we've done it our own way and

Speaker 2 we're still i think we're still one of the best gym if not the best gym in the world that's why i'm there only reason i'm in new zealand is because of city kickboxing If not for that place, I definitely would still be there to see my family borrowed it, probably moved

Speaker 2 all over the place. Like Melbourne, I definitely would have lived in Melbourne for a while.
Like Melbourne, I love Melbourne, Australia. Canada, somewhere.
Melbourne's great. Yeah, Melbourne.

Speaker 2 I just like the culture, the food. It was here in Austin.

Speaker 1 Australia and New Zealand just have such restrictive laws.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the government has such control over people. And I didn't realize it until the pandemic.
Yeah. And then I was like, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 That's why you got to play the game, Joe.

Speaker 1 Yeah, keep moving.

Speaker 2 I played a game as it says, like, it's almost egotistical in the sense

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 2 rules are there for a reason, and I am a law-abiding citizen. But sometimes there's certain things where I think, like,

Speaker 2 the laws doesn't apply to me. You know what I mean? That's why I don't follow politics.
I only ever voted recently in New Zealand because of the fucking referendum.

Speaker 2 They were going to make marijuana legal. I was like, okay, that applies to me.
I'll vote for that. So, what do you call it? One policy voters or whatever.

Speaker 2 The other laws and stuff, I'm like, meh, unless if it's something crazy, like someone decides, oh, we're going to tax the rich 50% of their money.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, that applies to me then i'll vote so when i say the law doesn't apply to me it's in the sense of like i don't really care about what their policies are you know so yeah that's how i live and i'm able to travel a lot which i'm grateful for but

Speaker 2 yeah if it wasn't for ckb i definitely would have would have left and z

Speaker 2 or maybe traveled more checked out europe or you know shit like that but right now as i'm fighting maybe after fighting i will you know new zealand is beautiful oh it is beautiful spot to live i like the pace i do like the the pace.

Speaker 2 And again, I like watching America and the rest of the world from New Zealand because it's just like this little corner of the world, just like chilling and just, oh, yeah, Kiwi, mate. G'day.

Speaker 2 You know? And then, yeah, just see what happens in the rest of the world. And we still get a lot of things happening culturally that are relevant to the world.
But yeah.

Speaker 2 I definitely want to travel after fighting. And I get to travel.
I'm in fucking Austin, Texas now, you know, talking to you.

Speaker 2 Where was I? After this, I'm going to New York.

Speaker 2 And yeah, I'm sure I'll be somewhere else on the planet at some point. But yeah.

Speaker 1 What do you think you want to do when this is over?

Speaker 2 So I have a plan in place because I know me,

Speaker 2 I'm an adrenaline junkie. So I know I'll need something every, like maybe thrice a year where I feel like I'm going to die.
So one of my plans is...

Speaker 1 That's such a crazy thing to say.

Speaker 1 But I get it.

Speaker 2 That's why I have a McLaren and, you know, I've, you know, never crashed it. Amen.
But yeah, so for me, like, I skydived twice already in the last year. That was fun.

Speaker 2 So again, if I said, okay, I'm done fighting now, then, okay, the running with the bulls. Cool.
Let's do that. And I'll just train for that.

Speaker 2 And then when it's time to, I'll go to Spain or whatever and get ready for that and then go run with the bulls. Cool.
That's good.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 That'll be fun. It's dangerous.
You could die.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but that's a dumb way to die.

Speaker 2 Yeah, dumb ways to die.

Speaker 2 There's many fighting is a dumb way to die, too. But it's still glorious.
It's glorious.

Speaker 2 It's a glorious way.

Speaker 1 Getting stomped to death by a bull is not a good way to die.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, I mean, what are the...

Speaker 1 What do I have?

Speaker 2 So, what's another one? Okay, let's say I go to the Outback

Speaker 2 and go learn,

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 to jump on a crocodile and save it from some I don't know there'll be something I will find things I'm there's always something I will find something to do that will make me feel like I'm my life is in danger you see you feel like you're gonna need that forever because if not you just fall a lot of guys they come back and fight again because they miss that oh you know I was that guy I was that guy and those especially who never made it to the pinnacle or what they wanted to do then they still have that dissatisfaction and then they come back to try and reclaim that glory yeah do it for less money And then they fall short.

Speaker 2 They become journeymen,

Speaker 2 become alcoholics, drug addicts, you know, shit like that. So I don't want to, also, also, who knows?

Speaker 2 My main thing, though, is definitely start a family. That's one thing I want to do after fighting.
It'll happen.

Speaker 2 I don't go looking for that shit because when you do, you find the wrong thing.

Speaker 2 And I've made that mistake before. We're not going to make that mistake again.

Speaker 2 So I know it'll happen for me. And when it does, I'm going to be a great dad.

Speaker 1 You can't convince yourself that it's good.

Speaker 1 You got to, it has to be good.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, facts. Oh, no, yeah.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of people that want a great relationship, so they talk themselves into one. And then next thing you know, you're with some girl who's going through your phone.

Speaker 2 I got talked into one. That's the thing.
So now I know I'm like, okay, bet.

Speaker 1 You got talked into one.

Speaker 2 Oh, just, you know, when you fall in love, you just.

Speaker 1 Stupid.

Speaker 2 Because I'm such a lover as well. I'm so soft.

Speaker 2 But I learned my lesson. And again, it's one of those things you just have to go through.
And I'm grateful for the experience.

Speaker 2 I'm grateful that I did because now I know exactly what not to do next time. So that's why I don't look.
I'm single because I just enjoy myself.

Speaker 2 I enjoy enjoy not being responsible for someone else's emotional state you know especially as a fighter because you know

Speaker 2 you know this you know fighters when they have to deal with shit yeah before a fight before the cost of fight the shit I had to deal with

Speaker 1 it was oh my god and I was quarantining at the gym as well so that kind of stuff I don't want to deal with I just want to focus on me there's a problem that girls when they think that you are busy with something else and you don't care about you not paying attention to them they're not your primary focus

Speaker 2 very upset I've seen guys where they're they're getting ready for a fight and their girl starts fights with them like as they're weighing in you know oh you're not that bad at least she knew better but still it's just look it's it's more about also don't try and compete with your your your your husband or your boyfriend with me you'll lose it's not like in a sense like this is what i do for a living you don't have to try and compete you know it's weird like when someone tries to compete with their their person or whatever i know it's nuts yeah this is meant to be a partnership right the intimate person in your life wants you to fail because they're competing with you and they want they want to get over on you but thing is what's good for me is good for us what's good for you is good for us right if you're a team so again if you're a team i'm learning and i'm not looking because i think that's that ship sailed in the sense like

Speaker 2 When I look at someone like say, even O'Connor with D. Devlin, that's fucking cool.

Speaker 1 I love that.

Speaker 2 She's still with him to this day. They're going to have many kids together.
That's cool.

Speaker 2 Regardless of what the state of their relationship is now, it's like, look, she was with him when he was no one, and she believed in him. That kind of stuff is rare these days.

Speaker 2 When I see it in other people, I'm just like,

Speaker 1 right.

Speaker 2 There's still love in the air, Joe.

Speaker 1 It's still sometimes it works. Yeah, it can work, but boy, you got to find the right person.

Speaker 2 No, they got to find you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm not looking. Yeah.
I'm not looking.

Speaker 2 I'm just chilling. I actually got on Hinge the other day just for fun in LA.
I was like, let me see. I hate these apps.
I don't use those. I try to get on Rya.

Speaker 2 They still have me on the the fucking waiting list for fucking the last two years. I'm like, might have cool enough.

Speaker 2 But I went on Hinge in LA just to see, just to see what's up. But that's just funny.
It's just funny to see the experience. I had a couple interactions.
It was cool.

Speaker 2 But I was like, ah, this is what people do now. It felt like the questionnaire to get on Hinge.
I thought it was going to be like this thing. Cool, cool, cool.
Put some pictures up.

Speaker 2 I'm like, am I trying to do an adoption or some shit? Because it's like, what is this? And what is your primary focus? And I'm like, I spent like 20 minutes doing the whole thing. So it's up now.

Speaker 2 I still have it on in Austin.

Speaker 1 I'm like, ah, that's

Speaker 1 just for fun. Cast the line out there for the lulls.

Speaker 1 For the lulls. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, it's, you know, you have to protect your time. That's the problem.

Speaker 1 It's like you only, especially when you're doing something like fighting, there's the amount of time and dedication that's required to be at your very best is insane. And there's nothing like it.

Speaker 1 There's nothing like it. Even in sports, if you're a basketball player, you have to play basketball, you have to practice, but there's a lot more free time.

Speaker 1 A lot more free time, and it doesn't drain your body the way fight training does.

Speaker 2 The consequences is different. Right.

Speaker 2 It's like after a game of rugby or whatever, cool. I don't know how

Speaker 2 the brackets work or whatever, even in basketball or football, soccer. But then you get to play the next day.

Speaker 2 Not the next day, sometimes the next week. You know, fighting.
It's not always like that.

Speaker 2 And also, if you get hurt, you get hurt badly and you suspension six months and you have to wait and then if you don't if you're not strong mentally i've seen people break yeah i've seen them break and it's just like fuck come on man you can you're better than this so yeah for me fighting takes everything

Speaker 2 it takes everything and i've done well in this game and sometimes in the beginning

Speaker 2 i didn't give everything so that's why now that i'm at this age i'm like yo

Speaker 2 Give everything so that way when I'm done, I just know I did everything I could to be the best. And I was.
And I'm proud of myself. So I'm, yeah, I'm still here, man.

Speaker 2 I'm still, like I said, I'm not fighting for,

Speaker 2 you know, a belt or anything anymore. That'll come around when it does.
But it's just, I'm just fighting just because I, I have, bro, a submission is more worthy to me than a third belt.

Speaker 2 Like, I'm going to get that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm going to get that. It's going to, and I'm not going to look for it.
It's going to present itself and I'm going to get it. And I'd be like, right, I take that off.
Cool.

Speaker 2 Because I've done a lot of cool shit in this game. It's more like just the highlights.
And I just know I can. So that's more worthy to me at the moment.

Speaker 2 And that's like a maybe ego thing or personal thing. But yeah, that's just me, though.

Speaker 1 Do you have a timeline on how much longer you want to fight for?

Speaker 2 Like I said, right now, I say three years, but I'll be 38.

Speaker 1 That's probably the end

Speaker 1 where guys can compete at the high. Like Jared Cannon here got to like 38,

Speaker 1 39, starting to fall off a little bit. And the last two fights, he's lost.

Speaker 2 I think GSP stopped just around there as well. 37, maybe.

Speaker 1 When he fought Bispang? Yeah.

Speaker 2 But who knows? That's what I'm saying. That's like, I feel, I don't think I'm going to fight at 40.
I don't think, I think that's not me. I'll be, I'll be, nah.

Speaker 2 Even for me as a person, I'm like, nah, I'd rather be doing something else. But 38 right now is in my head.
Who knows? Fucking 36, 37. I'm just like, all right,

Speaker 2 peace. I'm out.
I'm spontaneous like that. But I think 38, yeah, 39.
But let's see, 38. Let's see what happens first.
But at the moment, I'm still here.

Speaker 1 Do you have any thoughts of things to do other than things for adrenaline? Like, like

Speaker 1 things to do with your time?

Speaker 2 Apart from raising a family,

Speaker 2 production. I definitely want to have my own production company and do stuff like

Speaker 2 a couple of acting things, of course, because they've already come up and I turned them down because of this game. I was like, you know, you have to give everything to this game.

Speaker 2 I don't want to spend three months somewhere filming. Right.
You know, this kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 But definitely motion capture definitely want to do that you know what's his name the guy that did uh andy circus planet of the apes gollum caesar he's one of the best at it and i i see the way he works and operates and i just i know i can do that i can learn and i'm very coachable i can learn stuff like that voiceover work

Speaker 2 with some cartoons or animes or whatever video games motion capture stuff i'd like to i have my own ideas of of of things i want to bring to fruition but i don't necessarily have the skills.

Speaker 2 Even though I was doing computer graphic design for about three years, I knew how to make a red ball bounce in Maya, the 3D program. That was my biggest achievement in that.

Speaker 2 But I can partner up with someone on studio and just bring my ideas to life if they like it. Like, I'll learn how to write a script maybe so I can present it properly.

Speaker 2 Also, fuck, all this shit with AI. I can just be able to do it with AI in two years and be like, right.

Speaker 2 Boom. And if it hits, it hits.
If it sucks, cool. Do it again at the drawing board.
But yeah,

Speaker 2 a lot of things. A lot of things.
I already have, again, shout out to my pops. My pops is a real OG because he helped me just triple and quadruple my money.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because if I didn't have him, I definitely would end up

Speaker 2 as one of those sad stories. I feel just because of who I am as a person.
I feel like I would have ended up as one of those sad stories because of the trust I have in people.

Speaker 2 So I'm glad I have my dad around just to like

Speaker 2 just make sure things are cool.

Speaker 2 there's always vampires right there's always vampires it's just human nature it's human nature i'm sure you have it as well on the way up and even now i'm sure you have it as well but they always they come at the woodwork and it's like uh let me see but then my dad's able to tell this is legit this is oh let me have a look at this first he goes through every contract

Speaker 2 I can read, but sometimes, because I'm dyslexic, I read really slow or I just lose focus and shit like that.

Speaker 1 Especially contract shit. So That's very difficult to really

Speaker 1 part of it. I need an anime contract.

Speaker 1 Make me a fucking cartoon that explains what happens if everything goes wrong with me crying

Speaker 1 all no money.

Speaker 1 Or me living in a palace with a bathtub filled with gold.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but I just get like, unless it's something maybe fiction that entices me and I can really go deep.

Speaker 2 But y'all like reading comics and shit like that but a contract is just detail but there's one person on this planet I trust that wants the best for me is my father that's a great thing to have amen because even I've said this like guys like Habib you know rest in peace to his pops he had him in his corner

Speaker 2 Michael Jordan he had his dad in this corner you know on the court my dad is in my corner but that's on the stuff that really matters outside the cage in life like I'm when I talk about imposter syndrome I'm like how the fuck do I have this many houses Right.

Speaker 1 I'm doing well cool.

Speaker 2 I know I'm I'm adulting,

Speaker 2 but that's cuz of my pops. And I learned the game through him,

Speaker 2 but the details of the game I still don't know yet. So after this, I'll have more,

Speaker 2 I guess, input in the sense that, okay,

Speaker 2 this and that, and this is what this means and that, you know, with the property values and whatnot, I try not to get too much into it because right now all I can focus on is this, fighting, the main thing.

Speaker 2 If I don't have this, then yeah, I can definitely tap tap into all that kind of stuff but now I'd rather just focus on this and let my dad handle it so again I'm grateful so grateful that he's around and he's the one that's helped me get to this point because a lot of people don't even have their dad in their lives you know and I'm glad I do yeah

Speaker 1 it's overall it seems like you're in a real good place I am

Speaker 2 so yeah I am look this is life Yeah, you know how it is ups and downs smiles and frowns. But right now where I'm at, I'm in a good place.
Way better place.

Speaker 2 Because again, like people, the thing I did, like

Speaker 2 I appreciated after my last fight, people come up to be like, hey, man, that was a great fat last fight. Oh, you did well.
I'm all thank you.

Speaker 2 But when people come, because I was at the buffet in Perth and some guy came up to me just like

Speaker 2 hard luck, man. I was like, what?

Speaker 2 Like, he wanted to feel sorry for me. I was like, nah, get your fucking shit off me.
I'm like, I'm good. I'm like, bro, if you knew how much I made from this fight, you wouldn't even

Speaker 1 feel sorry for me.

Speaker 2 But some people don't know how to react, so they come like,

Speaker 1 I thought they were rooting for you, and they feel bad.

Speaker 2 I know, but I want, I like the, again, I don't fault them for it because they don't know what to say. But the ones that come up and be like, bro, that was a mean fight, man.

Speaker 2 You almost had him, but that was a fucking good fight. I'm like, thank you.
I felt good in that one.

Speaker 2 It's a different look on two different, on the same thing. It's like some look at it with like, yay, and some look at it with that.

Speaker 2 But I'm in a better place because, again,

Speaker 2 this isn't everything. Fighting is not everything in my life.
I've lost many times. I've been out of fighting, you know, and I've come back.
I've lost in fighting many times and I've come back.

Speaker 2 So for me, right now, where I'm at in life, I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying the ride.
And yeah, I look forward to the future.

Speaker 1 I look forward to it. There's a thought that some people have that in order to be at your best, it has to be everything.

Speaker 1 You have to live and die by your performances. And when your performance sucks, you have to suffer until you get a good one.

Speaker 2 Nah, that's not for me.

Speaker 2 I've been there before, and it's not for me everyone's different and i understand that when it's like because even when i was on top of the world you know like number one and this and that it never defined me i never let it define me i always knew

Speaker 2 i was israel adisoner before and after the belt i'm still me no matter what they're still gonna be trying to fight me because they want to have israel adissonia on their record you know they wanna they wanna fight me they don't wanna fight the champ like people will probably even pick a fight over me than DDP.

Speaker 2 Or maybe not, because it's probably an easier fight, they think. But still, like,

Speaker 2 I'm me. And that's never, ever going to change.
That's never, ever going to change. As long as I stay true to me.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I, I, look, if this game was going to change me, if money was going to change me, it would have done it ages ago.

Speaker 2 A lot of zeros ago. But I've always been...
this guy with or without money. You can ask anyone who really knows me.
They'll tell you, oh yeah, that's the same dude I was dancing with back in the day.

Speaker 2 Still the same goofball, keeps the same energy. But now that I'm here, I just, I have a lot more freedom to do things that I want to do than I'm grateful for.
But yeah,

Speaker 2 I even look forward to seeing who I become next year, like who I evolve into next year. Because again, I am me, but

Speaker 2 learning. There's things I'm going to learn about myself.
I'm sure you have this as well. Jamie has this.
We all have this. We're just figuring out who we are.
What are you now? 57. No way.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So you're still learning.

Speaker 1 You're never never going to stop. You never stop learning.
When you do, you're going to die.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Facts.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 This life is an experience. It's a long, and people have like this number thing in their head.
Oh, by 30, you should know this. Some people, some people know.
Some people don't learn until they're 40.

Speaker 1 Some people never learn.

Speaker 2 I thought I was going to be married with two kids at 23.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 You could have been. Yeah.
Did you zig when you could have zagged?

Speaker 2 I'm glad I zagged.

Speaker 1 I definitely did.

Speaker 2 I'm glad I zagged for that one. That was so long ago.
And I was, again,

Speaker 2 I'm just soft, bro.

Speaker 2 I'm surprised I'm fucking great at this, this fighting shit. Like, I'm soft.

Speaker 2 Do you see

Speaker 2 some idiot try to step me out? Do you ever see that? No, what happened?

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 this is two weeks, three weeks ago. I had a great, great day at training morning.
Went to

Speaker 2 the shop to get a pie. And I just thought, you know, people were just showing love.
I'm just, oh, hey, what's up? Someone take a picture?

Speaker 2 Cool, cool, cool cool cool cool and then one guy just pulls up and goes yo Izzy let's go one outs I'm like dang and I thought like bro this is stupid I was like

Speaker 2 so one outs and using that slang like one-on-one like one outs let's go and I was like this is silly like what the fuck and I just started laughing and I said bro I get paid millions for this I'm not gonna whoop your ass for free and then he kind of go angry and he's stuck at the lights it's green people are honking driving around them and I'm laughing walking away with my pies in my hand I remember just looking like

Speaker 2 what the fuck? And I grabbed my car door and I went

Speaker 2 and that pissed him off. Then he drove and then parked in front of my car and I was like, okay, took my watch off and I told a guy, can you please call the cops?

Speaker 2 And I'm glad only one person actually decided to walk.

Speaker 1 I did see the video of that. I saw just a small clip of it.
I didn't know exactly what was going on. Just an idiot.

Speaker 2 But again, I'm glad this is the day and age of people just boom, cameras out.

Speaker 2 Because everyone who was around, everyone got the cameras on.

Speaker 2 There was only one guy who used his phone to call the cops when i asked him because i didn't want to hurt this guy and this guy i don't know if he was going through something or he was maybe cracked out or something because even the guy that the video that came out it seemed like it was set up because the guy kept on going

Speaker 2 and the and i'm like what are you trying to say and i i i i'm glad i i like i said i'm soft i have patience and if i had a bad day it might have been different i i like to say that because of freedom of thought.

Speaker 2 But also my friend, you know, Falvake got killed by senseless street violence this is something that we've talked about even in the film it was something that we all had to go through because he

Speaker 2 got hit with a coward punch and then hit the ground and then boom he's in a coma for about two weeks and then eventually they have to pull the plug as i'm talking to this guy at one point i go bro i don't know you like

Speaker 2 whatever has happened i don't know you i'm sorry and he's like yeah talk to me nicely bitch talk i'm like

Speaker 2 and i started getting angry and then got to the point i spat at him and now that was me like i hoped hoped he did something, and then I'm like, right, I'm taking this guy out.

Speaker 2 But then, when I spat at him, he just looked down and kept on talking. And I realized, you know what about this life? I'm not going to spend the next 10 minutes talking and

Speaker 1 elevates him and his mind to exactly.

Speaker 2 Oh, he took his shirt off at the end. I got in my car, I was driving off.
He had his shirt off flexing, like, whoa, bitch, what? And I was like, no, this nigga's cracked out.

Speaker 1 Oh, he's a crazy person.

Speaker 2 So, for me, again, that's why I say I'm soft. And

Speaker 2 I had to really hold myself back. I don't know.
I'm sure you've, no one tries you anymore. Of course.
They'd fucking be stupid to try you.

Speaker 2 But I was thinking no one would try me anymore because back in the day, someone would try me. I'm like, bro.

Speaker 1 Bro, people were trying Chuck Liddell in his prime, and he was a complete psychopath. Try out to Dan Hooker.

Speaker 2 Dan would not have the patience that I have.

Speaker 1 Dan would fucking instantly demolish that guy.

Speaker 2 But again, I just don't want to do something because if you breached the line,

Speaker 2 I was within range and within my rights to strike him.

Speaker 1 Seemed like what happened with your friend. If you knock that guy out and he bounces his head off,

Speaker 2 that was what was going through my head.

Speaker 2 And also, we started this charity, Walk Without Fear. And I'm glad nothing happened.
I'm glad I was patient because now that video can be used because we're trying to change the laws.

Speaker 2 Look, the guys that killed my friend, when we were in lockdown, they were on home detention.

Speaker 2 So they're free now. They're walking free, enjoying their life.
And my friend is dead.

Speaker 1 They They didn't get convicted.

Speaker 2 I think one of them did, but the rest of them, they had home detention. The ones that actually even helped, they got home detention.

Speaker 2 And I think for a year and a half, so six months of that home detention, we all did it together in lockdown. So what kind of punishment's that? You get to sit at home and watch Netflix.

Speaker 2 And my friend's daughter has to grow up without a father. You know? For nothing.
For nothing. Just because ego.

Speaker 2 alcohol drunk this and that so again i'm glad i'm soft and i don't like i don't like confrontation. I don't, but when it's time to get down, I will get down.
And I, I, I, I've put it out enough.

Speaker 2 Like, I want to protect my boundaries and shit like that, but I don't ever want to be put in a position where someone tries to set me up just so they can make money off me.

Speaker 2 But there will be a point if someone tries me enough that I'll have to definitely defend myself. And there's no fucking referee in a street fight that's going to drag me off

Speaker 2 a person. And that I see red, bro.
Not that shit. I'm saying.

Speaker 1 I see red, bro. Is it the funniest shit? Not that shit.
Bro, that's your own blood.

Speaker 1 I see red.

Speaker 1 You should see clearly. That's a ridiculous thing.

Speaker 2 I see blood. Yeah, it's lovely.

Speaker 1 I've never heard anybody say, I see red, and it worked out well.

Speaker 2 But yeah, I just, yeah, I'm glad it worked out well for me, and I spared a life that day, because if not, it would have been really bad. And then I might not be here.
Right.

Speaker 2 I might be in a fucking cell somewhere.

Speaker 1 They might try to make an example out of you. They will.
Yeah, they will. If you killed somebody.

Speaker 2 Oh, I know. These, these motherfuckers in NZ, like the bureaucrats, they don't like people like me.
They don't like people like me who was outspoken, who was not a quintessential Kiwi.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? The guy that just keeps quiet and, yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 Follows the rules.

Speaker 2 Just very humble.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 2 fake humility is something I've never been. Like, I know humble is

Speaker 2 what it is for real because I deal with that every day. Like.
I fucking spot Carlos, Navajo. I

Speaker 2 grow with Dan. I get humbled every fucking day.
So So I know what real humility is. But for me to try and like let the world know I'm humble just so I seem like I'm humble.
That's that fake shit.

Speaker 2 And I'll never be that. And when I see it, I cringe because I'm like, oh, I know, I know you.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 It's like, nigga, I know you.

Speaker 1 We've done things.

Speaker 2 So when I see people do that, I'm like, just be real, you know? So yeah, I try to keep it real as always.

Speaker 1 But again, like I said, I'm soft, but sometimes, you know, it's a real challenge to be yourself with the kind of attention and pressure that you get.

Speaker 2 The magnifying glass of the world. And I would never change.
I'll never not express myself the way I always do.

Speaker 2 But sometimes the world is trying to put you in a box and be like, this is what you're meant to be. This is who you're meant to be.

Speaker 1 I'm like, no. It's always weak people that want to do that.

Speaker 2 Bro, like, what was the one I put up the other day? Because

Speaker 2 there was a scene from my movie. I was getting my nails done.
I was like, what was I doing? Some drip tips. And then I put a clip next to it where Cam goes, well, I've been wearing pink my whole life.

Speaker 2 Niggas been saying I'm gay. Bro, if you think I'm gay, bring your mother around.
Bring your sister around. I fucking love that.
I was like, yes. Because again, I don't care.

Speaker 2 It's never been an issue for me. I think people think because I never flexed my...
girlfriends or anything online, they're like, nah, definitely. This guy sus.
Also, because I'm nice and I'm soft.

Speaker 1 That makes you sus. That's hilarious.

Speaker 1 Being a nice person makes you sus.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because I'm not a dickhead. So silly.
But I can be a dickhead. I have been a dickhead in the past.

Speaker 2 But again i'd rather i was raised right my family actually you know my mom and dad raised me with good morals and yeah i treat people with respect when and even if i don't get it back it's like cool whatever but yeah people expect you to be this kind of because you're like when there's oh man you're a lot different than i thought you would be in person

Speaker 2 like well you're not trying to fight me so No, you know what I mean? People expect you to be some type of way or I thought, you know. Hard.
Yeah, or even an asshole.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Look, there's people you can find who'd be like, yeah, he's an asshole. And I was like, well, yeah.

Speaker 1 But who are you? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 I was an asshole. To you.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But you're an asshole.
So I had to be an asshole to get you the fuck away from it. Facts, facts.

Speaker 2 And I'm fine with that now. That's because back in the day when I first came into this game, I always felt like I had to,

Speaker 2 with every fan, I had to put on the song and dance. Like, oh, hey, how's it going?

Speaker 2 But sometimes I might be at a four. or a five at energy level.
So if someone pulls up on me, I'm just like, yeah, cool, let's take a picture.

Speaker 2 But I don't have to ham it up to make them feel like, this is a great experience. Oh, he's such a nice guy.

Speaker 2 It's like, bro, the day my cat died, I was pumping gas and the guy tried to take, oh, he tried to make me talk to his cousin on the phone. And I said no.
And he's like, oh, all good. And I felt bad.

Speaker 2 And I was like, oh, give me the phone. And I'm there with the phone.
pumping gas. And I went, bro, no phones.
I was like, get the fuck away.

Speaker 2 But I did that because I felt bad that he I didn't talk to his cousin on the phone while I'm pumping gas. So what happened if something happened and boom?

Speaker 2 Oh, what? Because I wanted to talk to this guy's cousin on the phone because he saw me at a gas station while I'm pumping gas. So when I talk about protecting my boundaries,

Speaker 2 it's just about time and place and approach. Like

Speaker 2 people not,

Speaker 2 and I've put that out enough where I feel like people do respect it now. But some people still think I hate fans or whatever.
But I'm like, that's what you think.

Speaker 2 If that's what you got from my message, then cool. You think that.
But it's about protecting my energy and protecting my boundaries.

Speaker 1 Well, I don't think they'll ever understand what it's like to be a person like you.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Be in the spotlight.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And so, again, they feel like you have this advantage, this privilege that no one else gets.
So they think that you owe them something. You owe them your time.

Speaker 2 I, bro, I'm a fan. I pay for your pay-per-view.
Right, right. No, you don't.
You're just talking shit. Yeah.
Oh, no. Oh, the ones that is going to come, bro, I bet on your fight A.

Speaker 2 I'm like, yeah, fuck you, multi. Because again, I put my life on the shit.
Every time I step in there, I put my life on the line. But they will never understand that.

Speaker 2 They'll come and tell me like, yeah, bro, one time, this is years ago, and the club, a guy showed me a betting slip. I was like, end?

Speaker 2 This is after a Yon fight. And he showed me a betting.

Speaker 1 I'm like, cool.

Speaker 2 Like, what do you expect me to do? Give you a refund?

Speaker 1 Right. He's like, nah, fuck you.
So I can't remember how I respond.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you think I wasn't trying to win?

Speaker 2 If you ain't got it like that, don't put your money up. I only gamble with money that I'm going to lose or I can afford to lose.
But again, yeah, I'm fucking gambling with my life. Right.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to win. And then something bad could happen.
I'm not here again. You know, so yeah, people are weird.
And I love people.

Speaker 2 Like, I always say this.

Speaker 2 There's something about every group of people on this planet that I love, including my own. And there's something I hate about every group of people on this planet.

Speaker 2 Just little things, little things that just annoys me. I'll say, like, okay, Nigerians.
I hate how the elders sometimes confuse respect with fear. Because that's how I grew up.

Speaker 2 They confuse respect with fear. And I've had to deal with that.
You know, I'm not going to say anything else about anyone else because they know it's like, oh, Israel hates these people or whatever.

Speaker 2 But again, I love people, but at the same time.

Speaker 1 They're taking advantage of the fact that you're being respectful.

Speaker 2 I love me first. I know what you're saying.

Speaker 1 I got to put me first. Yeah, you have to.
If you don't, nobody else will. Facts.

Speaker 1 You have to, bro.

Speaker 1 Well, listen, brother, I think the way you handle yourself and the way you communicate and the way you're honest and just you can be yourself, it's a great example to other people, especially young fighters that are coming up and trying to figure out how they're going to manage this.

Speaker 1 And if they get ever be so fortunate, they get to a position like yourself, you've got, you gave them a little roadmap, you know, and I think that's, that's a, that's a beautiful gift to give people to understand an understanding of how an intelligent, sensitive person deals with this crazy position in life.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 2 Actually, hit. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 Nah, yeah. I can say the same about you.
What you've done,

Speaker 2 everything from day since I've met you that you you don't remember and i'm glad you don't remember to now even being friends with you i like being friends with you and also i don't

Speaker 2 because you still have a job to do and i never want to put you in a compromised position i always still have to respect you and what you do and i still kind of keep my distance a little bit but i always respect and appreciate every time that we've interacted or hang out and you know who you are as a person so Thank you.

Speaker 1 I appreciate you, brother. Thank you, brother.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Love you, man.
You're the fucking man.

Speaker 2 Let's go. All right.

Speaker 1 Let's wrap it up. What else?

Speaker 2 Watch Stylebender on Pride.

Speaker 1 Watch it. Apple TV.
There it is. Bang.
Beautiful.

Speaker 2 Awesome. All right.
Thank you so much, man. I appreciate it, brother.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 Bye, everybody.