#2381 - Taylor Kitsch

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85?

Yeah, drop some headphones on me close.

Damn.

Yeah, you have to, well, see, if you ever gonna shoot something at 45, you really want to be comfortable at twice that.

Okay.

So I'll shoot 90, I'll shoot 100 yards.

Yeah.

Yeah, because that way when you get into 40, it seems normal.

Yeah, right.

It seems easy.

It's an easy day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's all just about effectively.

Would you take a shot at 85?

No.

Yeah.

No, no, no, no, no.

That's far.

You might take a follow-up shot.

Like, if you know the animal's already going to go down,

if you can, you should always get a second shot on them.

Yeah.

So I'll take a second shot at 85, but I wouldn't have to.

Have you had one and it just fucking ran?

Just gone?

Oh, yeah.

Like 200, 300 yards?

What do you mean?

Like if you shoot it and you you know how

hit it and it just goes into the bush and you got to track it, find it.

Yeah, you can track them though.

Yeah, just leaking all over the place.

Yeah, blood trails.

Yeah.

Especially if you use a large mechanical broadhead.

So I've shot one deer in my life and it was after Lone and I was on Lattrell.

After Lone Survivor?

Yeah.

And I was with Lattrell and a couple other seals on his ranch.

And, you know, you're surrounded by SEALs.

So it's like, he's like, let's get you one.

I'm like, yeah, let's go.

And so we're on the ranch.

Have you been there?

No.

Oh, it's great.

And

I don't know how many acres, but he had, used to have like giraffes on the ranch and shit.

It was crazy.

You would literally just be out there and there's a couple giraffes.

And I think

they're gone now.

But we pull into this like opening and he's like, there's going to be some deer on the right.

Lo and behold, a couple deer.

He's like, okay, take take that one.

Pull out the M4.

We're pretty far, but not crazy.

And I'm nervous, man.

Like, of course, I've trained with the M4 and for loan and all this stuff, but I've never like shot shot.

And so I hit it.

And he's like, fucking great shot.

Let's roll up.

Roll up, no deer.

And you can hear it, though.

And it's like,

just losing its fucking mind.

Oh, no.

And i'm like oh fuck

and so the other seal he's like let's go so we walk and walk and walk and finally get around this corner and we have to put him down with a pistol and i was like why'd you have to put him down with a pistol just because we walked right up on it and it was just dying yeah and so i was just like

okay

this is part of it yeah um and then we you know ate it and all that kind of stuff but it was uh that's a good part yeah it really is

But that was my one experience.

But I did go with my bro loves hunting.

And we went out in Montana and there's on a friend's ranch in into the backcountry.

And he was Bo.

And I love tracking animals for photography.

So it's the same thing.

Watching the wind.

getting up fucking before light hits just getting deep you're way up there too calling all that kind of stuff and uh

it's just so fun.

And once you get in tight, your adrenaline's just buzzing.

And we had eyes on this like big boy.

And so then I'm doing the, he's like working his way up the mountain up this pass.

And I'm doing the antlers against the tree and then the antlers and getting it angry, getting it worked up.

And it starts bugling even more.

And you're like, I'm not even taking the shot.

And I'm like, this is fucking legit.

And he like, he pulls his fucking mask down and he's like getting into it.

I see him like army crawling up there.

Missed.

But we had a blast.

It's more of like a bonding experience, man, than anything for us.

It's a very intense experience, especially.

Because they scream.

And

the sound gives you goosebumps.

It does.

Especially when you're close to them.

Yeah.

And it just goes through your body.

It shakes you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, there's nothing like else.

i know

i know it's really fun yeah but it takes a lot of work it is

you earn it yeah it's a different hunt right than just rifle it's just rifle up there and at least in that area it's like sometimes you're your hunts under an hour you know with bow

you're in one yeah you're this is days possibly oh yeah yeah yeah especially if you want to get within 50.

yeah and then that's the magic

yes yes Yeah.

Throwing up the grass, checking it all the time.

Fuck, it's so fun.

You live in Montana now?

I do.

How long have you been out there?

Five,

just over five years now.

That's awesome.

Yeah, this choose that.

Man, flying into Austin.

I was here 16 plus years.

So it's just memory fucking lane.

It's crazy.

Crazy.

This is where it all started, man.

Really?

Yeah.

Like Friday Night Lights.

We were like school for the deaf just just down the street.

Land in the airport.

Dylan Field was just across the airport.

So so many memories of Pete and I.

We were staying at the Four Seasons shooting the pilot.

Learned to box here at Richard Lord's.

If you don't know this guy, he's fucking amazing.

Richard Lorde?

Yeah, Richard Lorde.

There's a dock on him, actually.

He's up.

I don't even know if he's still around.

He was pretty old when he taught me how to box.

But

wicked dude, just zen doubt.

He was probably in his mid-60s, so he'd be up there now.

But

yeah, Pete literally was like, before we hit camera, it was like, hey, you want to go box?

And I was like, all right.

Fucking.

And I loved it.

I loved it.

And I still...

You still say Pete.

You mean Peter Bird?

Pete Bird.

Yeah, he loves boxing.

He's got his own gym.

Of course.

L.A.

Of course.

I do not spar with him anymore.

It's Dirty Pete is his fucking boxing name.

I bet you he didn't fucking tell you that, did he?

Why is it Dirty Pete?

Because he's earned that, man.

He's

so, you know, you'll do body shots only or stuff like that and spar, keep each other honest.

Right.

But fuck, you get him once.

It's, there's no rules.

There's no rules.

And it's like you're on camera in like a week or something like that.

Trying to give you a flag on.

And then you like take it and you're kind of shocked at first.

It just goes from like two to 11 so quick.

That's funny.

But yeah, it's the best workout.

We have a gym connected here.

So last time he was no way here?

Yeah, it's right next door.

We have no shit smart.

So we worked out together and cold plunge, the whole deal.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He gets after it.

He does.

He does.

He pushes.

I mean, even when we shot

American Prime Evil, he was

his little garage setup, man.

Cold plunge,

steam room.

Like, it's, he's he's got to have it.

Yeah.

He's got to have it for that brain of his.

Yeah.

Yeah.

American Prime Evil was fucking awesome, dude.

Thanks, man.

That show's so good.

I started watching it with my wife, but she's like, nope, gotta go.

She can't handle it.

It's a lot.

These get intense.

That's a fucking intense, but also probably super accurate.

Yeah.

One of the most accurate representations of what life was probably like in the West.

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Back then.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I learned so much on that, man.

I mean, living in Montana, I got to this cowgirl friend of mine who I met at that ranch

had been working with this shaman just outside of Livingston.

And I was telling her, I'm playing a guy that kind of raised by Shoshone and all this.

And like, that was kind of where I hung my hat of, like, if this guy lost his family at six or seven and then adopted or sold to the Shoshone This is who he is.

He's more Shoshone than he is white

so I started working with this shaman which was incredible and then

went down to the Shoshone Reservation Wind River worked with the elders there.

It's tough man because obviously going there you're like and they knew I was coming but it's like you're talking to these elders and it's like we meet five minutes in and I'm like so what do you what do you guys do when you bury your wife

and you're asking these heavy heavy questions cultural questions yes that is true meaning behind it all so she took a long beat and she's like I'll get back to you on that I'll get back to you on that and then I went into this other room at the school there and this other elderly woman comes in a wheelchair and she sits there and she's like,

what do you want to know?

And so we just sat there for hours and she was incredibly transparent and just really open.

And I would take all this and go to Pete and be like, listen, if we're going to, we got to honor these guys.

So let's do it right.

And he was all ears.

And

the Shoshone was very tough to learn.

When you say working with a shaman, like, what did you do?

Yeah.

So we'll do like two-hour sweats.

They're going to sweat loss.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How do they have that set up?

Like a fire in the middle of it or something?

Yeah.

So it's a fire is always burning before you start the sweat.

And then he'll grab river rocks from Yellowstone River.

And then the fire's going, and he'll bring these rocks that are in the fire into the middle of the sweat lodge.

And there's four doors to this one.

And

you'll fast the day before.

And

he'll put the river rocks in the middle.

And they're smoking hot, right?

And then he brings river water from a spring or whatever.

and then you have you fast and then you uh have your intention ties so you would sit down with them for an hour or two and talk about what you want out of this um sometimes it's like do i want to have a kid Or a buddy of mine was using heroin for something.

So I would bring him and have a sweat and just give him my energy in this sweat to help him.

Or my dad passed or something.

Or some, it can be light too.

It doesn't have to be so heavy.

But he's been amazing.

Like before, like I start a movie in a couple weeks.

And I'm just going to go do a sweat and get ready for that.

And I just, whatever he's going to, energy he's going to give me to go into this shoot.

And then for Prime Evil, it was fucking beautiful.

Like, I wasn't a good rider.

I'm still not on horses.

And he gave me, like, my horse has a feather.

If you really watch, I have four horses in it, but my first horse has a feather in him.

And I wanted to do all these and honor the horses, which obviously the Shoshone do.

So he just taught me a shit ton about just to honor that tribe and honor what they do and to be as authentic as possible.

So that helped me root Isaac so much.

That's such an intense character.

I imagine you're playing a guy who's a white guy who's deeply ingrained with Native American life.

And so it's like, it's all, it's very conflicted.

There's a lot going on there, but you want, you want to embody what this guy would be like.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you're, you meet him when he's mourning, right?

And he's lost his wife and his son, and he married into the tribe.

So the female chief, I married her daughter and had a son.

And so when you meet Isaac, he's just in mourning.

And

everything is full circle.

Everything is circular with them.

So the only way he could reunite with his family is to die honorably.

So that influences the way I fight.

So the way Isaac fights is all in.

Wild.

Wild.

Like biting.

I just got chills thinking about this.

There's a fight, I think, in episode two, which was fucking insane.

And we didn't rehearse.

This is very berg.

And we have these, one guy's blackfeet,

unbelievable guy.

And I kept using him because he's a great stuntman.

And

so Pete's like, you guys are going to fucking roll down this hill.

And I want you to fight your way to the river.

And then we'll cut.

And then I want you to fight in the river.

This is like.

Maybe 28 degrees in that river.

The safety guy is like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

This is not cool.

And this is all like on the go.

So JJ Dashnaw, my double, is like all in.

He loves this.

This is near the end of the shoot, too.

So,

and

everyone's game.

And that fight was just so fucking intense.

So is it choreographed at all?

Nothing.

Nothing.

Literally nothing.

So how do you know like when he's going to punch or you're going to punch?

So during, if it's you and me, it's like you will walk the area, make sure there's no sticks or whatever that we're gonna impale us.

And during the fight, I'll be like, Okay, I'm gonna flip you.

Oh, wow, and then it's like, okay, I'm gonna get on top.

And then you have to say it, yeah.

And then Pete will be yelling behind camera to be like, Okay, now work your way on top of them, and then we'll fight, work our way, roll, work our way.

And then he's like, Okay, find a rock,

kill him.

Jesus,

and then that war cry,

which I'm so proud of.

I worked on that forever, but,

and I had talked to Pete about it for, you know, months before, but we're just rolling so quick.

And I told our A camera, Brett, to get in tight.

I mean, any shot with Pete is fucking tight, which I love.

And I'm like, B, I'm going to, I'm going to do this war cry, so don't go down to him.

And he's like, gotcha.

And so when I did it, Pete finally called cut and he goes, What the fuck?

I was not fucking ready for that.

And it's those moments, though, that he allows you to just go, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, he's such a smart guy.

He is, man.

When he's dialed, he's like lone.

He was just

so

present and early.

And he just, I mean, we were surrounded by SEALs, as you know, every take.

And

I don't think you could do what we did in prep of just like no producers, no peat, no nothing.

It's just every morning, 7 a.m., 8 a.m., we're up in the mountain with SEALs, with Ray Mendoza and amazing guys.

And we

first week is like first day, man.

I'm Canadian, so I haven't shot a fucking gun in my life.

The first time you ever shot a gun was Alone Survivor?

Well, yes.

That's hilarious.

So first, Chris Karachi, who's a fucking legend, a man's man.

And he, I think he was like one of the, on the first team, SEAL team units.

And the deepest voice you've ever heard in your life.

And like a fucking man.

And he took me under his wing.

And so our first day was live fire.

And Karachi took me aside.

He's like, hey, it's you and me.

And I'm like, let's go.

And I'm like as fit as I ever have been I was running town lake doing the murph every fucking three times a week with weighted vests and uh just at Lake Travis High School there doing pull-ups and it was unbelievable fun training for that and um

first day was live fire and that fucking gets you right that does you do not fuck around and uh they make sure of it and then uh i haven't i hadn't met Marcus yet.

And Foster

had drove down, I think, from Texas to New Mexico with Luttrell.

I was pretty jealous of that.

I was like, oh, you got to spend some real time with Marcus.

And I was playing Mike, obviously,

who was Marcus's best friend.

And so we're on this fucking range doing live fire, like upside down, reloads, combat reloads, jamming, blindfold.

It was just, it was full on.

And Emil's actually a great shot.

Marcus comes, everything goes full stop.

And right when he's coming, there's a PA on the other side and she's bringing fucking banana

shakes out, which is not a good look for these actors.

And Marcus looks at these shakes and he looks at the actors and he's like, What the fuck is happening?

You guys don't get shakes in between.

And one of the actors just shamelessly goes up and grabs one of these banana shakes.

And he's just talking to Marcus, meeting him for the first time.

And I'm like, you might want to put that down.

Like, wait till he fucking leaves before.

And then it's just a beautiful experience, man.

The second week of training.

We were doing sim munitions.

Have you done that?

No.

Oh, you would love it.

So this will break skin.

And they hurt.

It's like a hard plastic, paint-tipped.

And they fly like that, right?

They arc.

Yeah.

Because they don't go as fast.

Right.

And so we have Sims now.

And Mike would, my guy decides if we push left, push right, if we engage, get the fuck out of here.

Let's buy ourselves some time, whatever.

I got to make these calls.

So the SEALs are in tally gear and they're like, go up the mountain.

What's Taliban gear?

They're all dressed in tally gear.

So we meet up at the bottom of this fucking mountain and they're all in Taliban gear and you're like, oh God,

we're so fucked.

So they're like, give us 10 minutes and when you get ambushed,

we're going to watch and we're going to engage.

And we're going to see what you do, see what you've learned the last week.

And you're like, all right, let's go.

So

it happens and you're just walking, right?

Just like we are in the film.

You're just walking and waiting to get ambushed.

You know shit's about to hit.

And so they hit and you hit the ground right away to figure out where the bullets are coming.

And

you can hear them, which

really

sets you straight.

And so I'm looking over at Emil and I'm like, fucking 12 o'clock.

They're just straight up in these trees.

I'm like, 12 o'clock, fucking push right.

We got to get the, because we're in this open field.

I just got chills.

We're in this open field.

And I'm like, get the fucking cover, dude.

We got to fucking fight our way to cover.

And Emil's like

taking his time.

And he's like, bro, ah, fuck.

All right.

It's fucking intense.

And I'm like, push right.

I got Foster behind me, who's like so in it.

He's fucking crawling through cactus and like bleeding, and I'm on the ground crawling, screaming at Emil.

Marcus comes out full.

We got hammered.

I literally don't think we got through a mag.

Like,

and Marcus comes out

and we're not laughing, but it's too light.

Like, we're taking it too lightly.

And I'm like, Emil, you got to push, man.

If I'm pushing, if I'm I'm telling you, so Marcus comes in and he's like full stop and he goes, I thought he was gonna rip Emil.

And he comes over to me and he's like, is this funny?

And I'm like, no, sir.

And he's like, do you understand the stakes of this?

Like, every one of you are fucking dead.

You're all fucking dead.

And so he just rips me.

He's like, it's your fault.

This guy doesn't want to fucking move.

Make him move.

Like, you're dead.

Do you understand that?

And I was just like, just leveled, right?

And it's a beautiful learning curve for me.

And

we got better,

but I mean, anytime, there's one time, I won't kill you with these stories, but one time I was like fucking proud of myself.

Like, we got in a ditch.

It was too much.

Simmunition, same thing.

And we got in a ditch and we're all here.

And I'm fucking looking down range like, like, fucking, we're in one we're still in a fight and then no joke Mark Seimos the sniper seal grabs my fucking shoulder and he's like boom and I'm like

where the fuck did you come from like that's how good these motherfuckers are man so it was like it was just an amazing experience when you train for something like that like how much time is spent like when you know you got the role yeah and you know you're gonna film like how much time do you give yourself to prepare for something like that longer I love prep.

Dude.

So I do.

Yeah.

Why do you love that?

The more time I can root myself into this guy, especially when the stakes are so high, like Murph.

I mean, physically,

I did this little comedy in Canada.

And if you watch this movie, and I was training for Lone during this movie.

So it's called Skirwink Trail in Newfoundland.

Beautiful fucking trail.

And it's me, my best friend of 30 years, and my assistant, who is a great guy.

And we're training for loan, getting ready, doing like 50-pound runs, weighted vests, all this kind of stuff,

Skirwink Trail.

So if you watch this movie, like at the beginning to the end, my body goes from like this to just fucking stacked in this movie.

And so there's that, but obviously 90% of this is mental, right?

The SEALs.

And so

I just love that.

I love the prep.

I love that pressure.

Pete did a beautiful thing bringing 19 guys died on the OP and the rescue mission.

So it was like

he brought all the families.

I think it was a week before we hit camera.

And

man, you know, I'm going,

I'm in the elevator at the Hyatt in Santa Fe

or Albuquerque, and I'm fucking nervous, like throw up nervous, because I'm meeting Dan Murphy now.

And I'm like, did I do enough?

Am I really fucking ready?

Am I worthy of this shit?

And then we all have that fucking voice in our head that's like, you're a pile of shit.

You didn't do enough.

You're not ready.

And that's why I prep so much because it eliminates, it's like a fight, right?

UFC or anything, these guys fucking, you prep to eliminate that self-doubt.

So you can be like, I'm fucking ready ready for you you know so it's the same mentality and so that was um

my first words to dan were like i'm gonna everything i have into this i'm gonna do it as authentically as i know how and he was just so fucking gracious with me gave mike's fire uh

firefighter uh patch and just told me some amazing stories and i'm super close with the murphy family still but um i love prep man i i think it's you gotta have it, especially with Pete's process.

Like,

if you're he, he's so off the cuff sometimes, and if it's an idea he has on the day, which he really leans into his gut instinct, and obviously, that's guided him pretty fucking beautifully.

But

you just got to be ready for anything.

And if you don't prep, you're not rooted, you're not ready for anything, you know?

So, um,

that one was a special one.

Yeah.

Do you what

when you get into a character, like, like if you're doing Lone Survivor, do you try to stay in that character all day long?

Like, do you try to do you break for lunch and just be yourself?

I try, for sure, but you're still.

Do you try to stay in the character?

No,

I try and be with you in the moment at lunch.

And not, even though

it's weird, though.

It is weird because you're in location

on top of the fucking mountain.

You're taking the ski lift up there.

And it's so important to be this guy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then you're having lunch with the Taliban guys.

You know?

And they're coming and they're like, hey, man, we're big fans.

Oh, God.

And you're like, this is fucking weird.

Yeah.

We're supposed to be shooting at each other in 20 minutes.

I'm about to fucking blow your head off, man.

And

so, I mean, Wahlberg's quite light in between, so that can be infectious in a good way.

Ben is very, like, he carries that weight in a beautiful way.

It's why he's so good.

A meal is quite light.

But yeah, there's definitely a tone, right?

Especially when you're surrounded by the SEALs.

It's such a quick reminder of what you're doing or serving.

But yeah, you're up on that mountain having a sandwich, helping camera crew move their shit.

And then lunch is always quick.

So you're right back into it.

And it depends on the day.

Like if I know,

like the climb up to Merf's death was you're just carrying more weight that day.

You just cannot fuck around.

You better get that fucking right.

Right.

And I remember being

Emil comes up to me and he's like, hey, if we get off tonight, I'll go full circle with this.

If we get off tonight, you want to go see Eddie Vetter?

And I'm like,

fuck yeah.

I love me some Vetter.

And that was in Albuquerque.

And so we go to Vetter, meet him.

Vetter calls him up, sings a couple songs to him.

It was an unbelievable night.

And Pete the next day comes up to me, and we're back up in the mountain doing some

the fall off the cliff.

We're doing that the next day.

And Pete's like, hey,

you're Destiny.

I want to talk about it.

And I'm like, all day, what do you want to know?

I got some thoughts on it.

And, you know, I talked to Marcus in the hotel and he remembers one specific thing thing he'd like me to do and so murph brought was pushing himself up with his rifle uh climbing up this rock so i'm like that's really all i want to make sure for marcus's sake that i get that in

and uh he's like yeah yeah uh we're gonna shoot this um in a parking lot

uh at just outside uh on off the highway in Albuquerque.

And I'm like, yeah, right.

And he's like, no, no.

I want to control the light and have a beautiful landscape behind Murph.

And I'm like, Pete, you're fucking killing me.

We're going to do this in a fucking parking lot.

And so it was my last day as Murph.

And I love music.

I'll always have a playlist for whatever character.

And

Explosions in the Sky, who's Austin, who was at the time Austin-based, great guys.

And Pete uses them all the time.

And they're just acoustic.

no lyrics, which is they're fucking amazing.

And so there's one song that has a heartbeat in it, and that was my song from IRF, and it slows down in it.

And so I go,

you know, I prepping in the trailer, I walk down through this fucking parking lot, and I'm like, oh, dude, I'm not in it.

I'm not ready for this.

And then I'm getting mad at Pete for putting me in a parking lot to do this shit.

I'm looking at fucking Sandia Hotel,

getting ready to go like this most epic death on,

you know, it doesn't get more epic than that guy, really.

Put in the tunes and they built this big stage that was like four feet high in the rocks and then surrounded it by green screen and cameras on the phantom camera, which is that uber slow motion.

That's where you see the spit coming out of Murph's mouth and all this.

And, and I just broke down.

Like, just I puddled myself right before it was just like months and months and months of thinking about it and

prepping and putting so much pressure.

And then I had explosions in my head.

And I was like, God damn, this is like you're overwhelmed with emotion.

And Pete comes up and he's like, get it out.

And so I took five minutes.

Camera crews waiting.

We did like, I told Pete, I want that rifle to him to climb up with the rifle.

And

I think we did three takes and then the camera crew, Jacques, was a he's a DP.

He DP'd American Prime Evil, but he was a camera op on loan

and he was working that slow-mo camera and he just goes to Pete.

He's like, we've got it.

We've got it.

Was it weird watching it on film knowing that you shot it in a parking lot like trying to

this is the first time I told this story.

Very much.

Like we would go,

we went and the first time i saw this film man was in uh

i think it wasn't redskins it was denver the broncos we go and show this to the broncos

and uh

robert griffin iii was the quarterback i think yeah he was there and um I was with Ben Foster and Ben had seen it and I was, I watched it the first time with the Denver fucking Broncos sitting in this theater,

and I was a mess.

A mess.

Yeah.

It's just the pressure, right?

I think.

But I love it.

Do it honor.

Yeah, truly.

And then my first email was to Dan, his dad, and he thanked me.

And that's all that really fucked.

And Marcus.

But yeah, they thanked me.

And that was really all I fucking need.

That's got to be.

A very intense kind of a role because you're playing a real human being whose family's still alive.

Maureen, Johnny, Dan,

the whole family.

And there's a destroyer,

fucking beach,

mail

or not UPS, but like a fucking

stamp or whatever named after him.

There's fucking, it's insane.

There's all these huge

honorary plaques and statues and all this kind of stuff so if you let it like overwhelm you it definitely can yeah but it's been i mean that's where all this my love for these guys is is really stemmed from that you know um that's where it's like

i i've played seals a lot and it's

it's i'm never raised military or my grandfather served but it was

it's an infectious group man.

It's like a brotherhood that's so real.

Exceptional humans.

Truly, truly.

And people don't understand these guys are the best fucking problem solvers on the planet.

They're doctors.

They're lawyers.

They're fucking smart.

And

so,

I don't know.

I've just been embedded.

And I think once you're in with these guys, you know,

You're you're you don't take it for granted.

It's like I've made calls to a buddy of mine that one of the most decorated seals alive and uh he trained me for loan uh ray mendoza he just came out with warfare uh that movie that's uh his best friend uh his story and um

unbelievable guy but i'll call ray and ray was doing second unit on on uh terminalist dark wolf and he's like a brother to me and

No joke, you're like, hey, man, I need a favor.

And he's like, he'll fucking bury someone for you man this guy like yeah what do you what do you need what what is it and it's like it's just that whole brotherhood that it's like unquestionably undeniably loyal yeah and like marcus like

i mean

we're chatting a lot lately just because I'm shooting in Huntsville in a couple weeks and he's not far.

But like my sister, I took some time off to help my sister because she was using drugs.

And

I just needed somewhere to fucking go.

Just, I can't be in Austin.

I tried LA.

She's still using.

She's still relapsing.

I fucking Marcus call Marcus.

I'm like, let's, I, this is what's going on.

He's like, bring her here.

Bring her to the ranch.

There's no fucking fentanyl.

There's no heroin.

There's no meth on this fucking ranch, man.

Bring her here.

And so I,

she's not using at the ranch.

So we went to the ranch and 10 days, I know she's going to be fucking clean because there's just all we're doing is driving around looking for hogs or like hanging out, fishing, whatever it is.

But he's just a

beautiful guy, man.

And where he is now is just, he's lighter on his feet.

It's so beautiful to see.

He was hurting on loan, going through a lot of fucking

surgery still, all this stuff.

So

they're just so loyal and just great guys, yeah, very, very exceptional people.

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Have you been paying attention to what they're doing in Texas for veterans?

Yes.

I begin initiative.

Yeah.

Awesome.

huge, awesome.

It's it's so remarkable how effective it is, yeah, and how many people it's completely saved their life and changed their life, yeah, you know.

And I was just thinking about that for your sister, you know, I don't know, yeah, she's clean 10 years now, just under 10.

Yeah, that's amazing, yeah, thanks.

Uh, she's a nurse now, oh, wow, which is incredible!

That's great,

yeah, she's it's really kind of like that's where that non-profit comes from.

Um, I just started it called Howler's Ridge.

And

I didn't even know, like, when she got clean, like, there's some fucking crazy stories I can tell you.

But she got clean and she hit me up.

And she was at a sober escape with all the girls she got clean with.

And I'm like, what is that?

And it's basically a reunion with all the people that you went through, your sober living or whatnot.

The last place she got clean was, she was supposed to be there 90 days.

She's there nine months.

Whoa.

Yeah, that's what I said um

and uh so she was at this sober escape and so howlers ridge is basically a place i think we all know an addict if we're not ourselves and uh and we're going to help vets as well but it's the sober side of addiction so it's a place anytime you're using

at least through my experience watching my sister die a couple times, get Narcanned a couple times.

I mean, I've seen her detox on my fucking kitchen floor which is the worst fucking sight of anybody to watch someone in so much pain um

but um

this this spot is for her you know where where it all started and this is i think anytime you're using right we're all habitual humans you work out six seven times a week you need that for your brain so do i and once you get in that habit I change.

If I don't work out in three, four days, I'm a fucking asshole.

And I get depressed yeah yeah like I get anxious yeah very yep me too and I get and I beat the shit out of myself right mentally yeah yeah I feel terrible yeah yeah

so we all create this environment whether it's good or bad yeah and I think with my sis I just didn't have anywhere to take her And I needed to pull her out because there was a time I, she relapsed like four or five times in LA.

And I was just finishing True Detective when I got her.

And

I mean there's stories, but like it's pretty fucked up that whole system because you have someone that's dying, right?

It's someone you raised or your brother, fucking best friend, whatever.

And I bring her to this, well, first she had to detox, which is an incredible story.

My mom calls me and she's like, she's been using for this long.

And I go full hero mode.

I didn't even know what fentanyl was.

Really?

Yeah, I didn't.

This is right after True Detective.

I really wasn't exposed to it.

I knew heroin, of course.

So what is this, like 12, 13 years ago?

Yeah, right in there.

Whenever the end of...

You didn't know what fentanyl was?

No.

Wow.

I knew like with the seals,

they had fentanyl patches for the pain.

And then, of course, like, but that's really all I fucking, if that.

Like, obviously I educated myself on it after, and it's 20 to 25 times worse than heroin.

It's a deathbed drug.

Put you to sleep.

And

so I got this call and I'm like, I'll get her sober in two weeks, bring her down, like hero mode.

And she comes and I had no idea what was going on.

And she had used right before she flew.

And so she was in withdrawal.

Oh, God.

Oh, God, it's fucking right, man.

And your muscle contractions are so bad that I had this little one-bedroom one-bedroom apartment in Marina Del Rey, 15, like literally a hallway from here, about this long, actually.

And it's late.

And she's just pacing because she can't sit still because the muscle contractions are so bad.

And I'm like, Shells, just

take it, go to bed, take my bed, and just try and sleep.

She's like, no, no, no, no.

You don't understand.

I have to move.

And so she tried sleeping, going, laying down.

Muscle contractions are so bad.

She fell off the bed.

And I'm like, okay, let's go for a walk.

And the beauty of our relationship and what I think was a huge factor in getting her clean was the transparency.

Like, you got to fucking be real with me.

Tell me when you used, tell me how often, like everything.

And she did, which is so tough to hear.

And so we ended up walking down Abbott Kinney at three in the morning and no one's obviously out there.

And we just did this crazy walk and talk, and I'll never forget it.

And it's just heartbreaking.

And I get her, and I call, I'm like, I don't even know if she needs to detox.

So I call the hospital, Marina Del Rey, and they're like, no, we don't take anybody that's using right now.

They have to be detoxed, and we may be able to help them after.

So I'm like, okay, what the fuck is okay?

We got a detox.

And

so I call this place and they're like an hour away.

And she's like, I have a bed for her and bring her at 6 a.m.

I mean, I got this little Wrangler, a two-door Wrangler, and she's in the back seat, my mom in the front, and she's like almost kicking the fucking glass out because the muscle contractions of my Jeep.

And I was like, holy, like, such a wake-up call that I had no idea it was this bad.

So reality's kind of setting in.

And

she kept asking for methadone.

I want methadone because she had detoxed before on methadone.

And

so I go to this fucking house and I knock on the door and she's in the back seat.

She's got her little backpack and it's this fucking woman, like butchy in like presence.

She opens the door.

She's like, just a matter of fact, where's your sis?

And I'm like, oh, she's grabbing her bag.

She's like, well, bring her here.

I'm like, okay.

Shells, let's go.

She comes and Shells is like, I need, doesn't say hi, nothing.

She's like, I need methadone.

And she goes, well, when did you use blah, blah, blah, and all this?

And she tells her and she's like, oh, you haven't even bottomed out yet.

We don't treat drugs with drugs here, honey.

You're going to have some Gatorade and some topical muscle relaxer and you're going to sweat this out.

And it's funny now.

But Shelby goes to her knees and she's like, I need methadone.

She goes, no, no, no.

What did I just say?

And she's like, you're getting Gatorade, muscle relaxer, and you're going to watch some movies.

And you can smoke, no phone.

She was incredible.

Four and a half days later, she called me.

She's like, your sister's good.

Bring her to a sober living just by Venice High.

And it's 30,000, like when someone's fucking almost ready to go, you're, I'll do anything, right?

And they know this.

And so it's 30,000 for the month.

And it's sober living.

You'll have one session, which isn't enough because she has some trauma.

And

with a psych.

And I was like, one in 30 days?

One every week.

And I was like, we need a lot more than one a week.

And

so I draw, and my sis was a runner.

And so you sign this fucking contract.

And it's like, if she runs, if she leaves, if she does this, this, this, and that, you, she's out.

We kick her out and we keep your money.

Two hours in, gone.

I get a call.

Yeah.

I get a call from this LA number and I'm like, no fucking way.

Okay, there's 30 grand gone.

I'm going to find another one.

She went to another one.

A little better.

Cool.

Yeah, I got twice a week.

Two days later, she runs again.

So I'm down 65K in three days.

And I'm like bleeding cash and then I figure out like another spot she stayed like 30 days relapsed and then

yeah she kept relapsing and then

multiple times Narcan up in Calabasas there's a place and she left and

this one girl she had night terrors

and

so they would she had I would walk around Joe with this fucking Ziploc bag of pills of like

antidepressants for her night tears, sleeping pills, all these things to just take away this trauma for whatever beat it would be within her, right?

And there's an amazing doc up there and South African guy that deals with women, addicts, and trauma.

And she was there for a while and that was.

Really great.

And she got a hold

of these sleeping pills.

And they're supposed to give you one every night.

And the girl put the bottle up on the little half door.

You know, those doors, swinging doors.

Yeah.

And

so she grabbed the bottle.

And she was, as a lot of these sober livings are, they're pretty incestuous.

And the guys sleep with the girls, vice versa, obviously.

And she was dating a kid named Mike there.

And so she went to that part of the house and said goodbye to Mike.

And to this kid's credit,

he was like, that's a little weird.

You didn't say goodnight.

You just said goodbye.

And so she goes up, hammers 60-something sleeping pills.

Oh, Jesus.

Yeah.

And he goes and tells, he's like, hey, this ain't right.

You got to go check on her.

So long story short.

Call the ambulance and the medic to his credit is like go grab the fucking bottle

and grabs a bottle and shows this medic and he's like we're pumping her stomach right now in the ambulance and

what saved her life were their time release

isn't that fucking crazy wild yeah wild so I got this call and I lost my mind for giving her the bottle

but yeah she at that point she kind of just

fucking ran again, went to a drug house.

She hates using needles, so someone would shoot shoot her up.

Yeah.

So, as you know, if you're fucking sober 92 days, whatever it was, if you use what you were using before, you're fucking gone.

Consume tolerance is gone.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

So they dropped, it's a fucking movie.

They dropped her off at the stoop of this hospital, and she got an Arcane.

I didn't know any of this part.

I didn't, I wasn't privy to this yet.

I'm just driving around looking for her.

And

anyway, she's

just to go back to that environment.

I'm like, I'm out of money.

We got to, I got to send you back home to Vancouver.

And she's like, you put me to Vancouver, I'm going to die.

And I'm like, well, it ain't working well here either.

And she was at a psych ward on 34th and Lamar.

That was a fucked up story, but

for like 10 days.

But anyway,

she went to this place called the Westie House in New Westminster, just outside Vancouver.

And it was a woman's only.

And she was there.

She ran there and I got her back in and she got clean and hasn't looked back since.

She ran again.

I know, man.

Vancouver.

Phone calls must be rough.

I didn't even know what Al-Anon was.

And I was at 360 Bridge.

There's a church just across 360 Bridge.

And

I was at this Al-Anon.

And I'm waiting.

I didn't, Shells has been gone.

So I'm waiting for the call of like, okay, she's finally overdosed and gone.

And so I'm a mess.

And I'm in Al-Anon just waiting for this call.

And I'm judging everybody in this fucking Al-A-N-O.

Like, there's this woman across from me.

She's like, yeah, my husband, he used.

And

yeah, I got Christmas with him.

And I'm like, fuck, that's easy day.

I'm like, you don't even know what the fuck I'm dealing with over here, you know?

And then you hear another story and you're like, that's bullshit.

You guys are pussies.

All in my head.

And so I just listen.

It does help or help me a lot.

And I come out and this one guy,

he's like, hey, you're heavy.

You gotta, you want to talk or anything?

You didn't say a word in there.

And, and I'm like, right when he said that, my sis called and she was downtown Vancouver.

And she had just used and got scared straight.

Some guy had followed her and sexually abused a friend of hers in front of her.

And she's like, I can't do this no more.

So she was scared straight.

And she's like, that's what got her sober.

She got, she was downtown Vancouver, called me and she's like, can you get me back in Westie house?

And I call Susan was her name and

call her back.

And I'm throwing everything.

I'm like, I will fucking support you guys.

Can you give us a bed?

Can you get her one more time?

I know she's not allowed back and all this.

And she goes, I'll call you back.

And she got.

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Got her bed and she was there nine months.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what was it that finally kept her sober?

Did she say that?

That's a fucking good question.

Jamie, can you tell Jeff to bring in the coffee?

That's a good question.

I know at times it was like,

we have nieces and nephews, and she wanted to get clean for them, but that didn't last.

I think it was that moment of getting scared straight, like you just can't keep doing this.

Rock bottom.

Yeah, I think that's what it is.

It's so subjective, right?

Yeah.

We all know somebody that's like, I i stopped drinking yesterday yep done yeah like my buddy over there you just met it's just like he went for a few weeks and he hasn't had booze since and it's like sometimes it just clicks and they're like fuck this life i don't want it anymore and some just can't break that habit but yeah

oh my god thanks jammy um

But yeah, she's a lot like me too.

Super, I'll steal some.

Still some, dog.

Thanks, man.

Yeah, it's a beautiful story.

Tragically beautiful, it ends well.

Yeah.

Yeah, but it very well couldn't have.

I can imagine if that guy didn't say goodbye.

What is goodbye?

Why goodbye?

What the fuck's going on?

Yeah, that one guy probably saved your sister's life.

And I want to fucking kill that guy, by the way.

Because he relapsed with her and used with her at that drug house.

I know, man.

So that, like, for me, is a big part of Howler's Ridge.

And then with the vets, as we just chatted, I love these guys and the families.

And so hopefully we'll have, you talk about Ibogaine.

I know we can't do that in Montana yet, hopefully.

But I hope up there on Howler's Ridge, we can maybe in a year or two, we'll see what happens, that we can do some of that up there.

Well, I think it's going to be so effective in Texas that it's going to spread.

And I think the fact that they're starting with veterans

because

these guys don't get any support.

I know you think about what they have to go through when they go off to war with the things that they experience and then they come back and they've lost friends and they've seen their buddies get blown up in front of them and they're they just they're all fucked up and then they're hooked on pills and

pills are just you can cookie monster a fucking jar if you want and they'll refill you like and there's different outlets like virginia hawaii florida doctors in each one that are sending you.

Yep.

And it's, that's, you literally at your doorstep, you're getting these jars of pills.

It's like you're giving, and these guys obviously have addictive personalities.

That's what makes them so fucking great.

Yeah.

That's one thing.

That's a weird thing, right?

The addictive tendency can actually make you great at something.

Yeah.

Well, beautiful, right?

Yeah, I mean, if you use it.

If you harness it, but it can go sideways on you, which is really weird.

It is.

That's one thing, and it's funny because

not that I'm cocky or was cocky with Dark Wolf, but I had played this guy already before, and I lose my trident in it, and Mendoza's kind of getting the parade rest ready and the whole ceremony ready for it.

And he's just a brother of mine.

And it was a big moment that I learned because these workups, say you work up on a Thursday and you go at 2 a.m.

to 7 a.m.

and you go take a couple guys out and you come back,

whatever, celebrate, probably get, have a few drinks and then you have another workup on Tuesday.

But let's say you and I go in the fight and I die on that Thursday op.

You're back in workup Tuesday morning.

So this is one thing that really kind of punched me when I was talking to Mendoza because he was talking about some stories where he lost somebody.

And I was like, there's literally no fucking time to mourn.

There's no time to register the loss of this.

So you're just harnessing this pain and this, all these emotions.

And you're just like, okay, I guess I'm back in the fight.

And I'm going to do this for at least another few months before I'm out of my six-month tour.

And that really kind of knocked me out.

And that set me free to play this guy a lot more like just knee-jerk emotion and way more of a live wire because it's like who the

we talk about

how subjective mourning is you know it's like everyone mourns differently yeah so it's like i just made that choice with uh ben of just like this guy's just a fucking mess and let him just emotionally make these decisions then and that's where i took him

did you have conversations with uh other vets that were addicts and that were fucked up from war and just had all sorts of different kinds of ways of dealing with trauma.

All the time.

Yeah.

All the time.

It's so common.

It really is.

It's insanely common.

Yeah.

It only makes sense.

It would be crazy if it wasn't common.

I know.

Yeah.

Stick at what you're asking them to do.

I know.

And we don't know the half of it.

No.

We really don't.

We don't know any of it.

We don't experience it.

If you don't physically experience it, you're just making things up.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

And I mean,

I think obviously with Red Wings and stuff like that, with loan, but then you talk to these guys in between takes and they're pretty transparent, which is beautiful that they're talking about it and all this.

But it's like, where are they putting this fucking energy after they're out?

Like, they got to find another purpose that's so fucking heightened when you're serving.

There's no bigger purpose.

You're fucking killing bad guys.

Yeah.

Like, that's incredible.

With your brothers right next to you.

Like, that's a heavy fucking thing to carry.

And then when they come out, now what?

I'm going to go walk fucking Walmart and

just be a dad, and that's just a whole nother life.

That's one of the things I really loved about Hurt Locker.

Yeah, fuck me.

It was such a good movie.

And it was so good the way he explained

or the way it played out how this guy just could not go back to normal.

Like, it just wasn't working.

He didn't give a fuck.

He'd rather be back out there.

Yeah.

Downright.

I mean, you look at Marcus, too, after Red Wings.

He went back to Ramadi, which is wanted to die with his boots on.

I mean, these guys are fucking, this is kind of the UFC, right?

Of like, these guys are modern-day fucking gladiators, warriors.

And I know they're not in the front lines or downrange, but it's like you got a guy like Marcus or the Mendoza or these guys that are just truly born warriors.

There's just a, they are a different breed.

Well, that's why they get it through buds, too.

Yeah.

You got to be a different kind of human.

Yeah.

Yeah.

More mental than physical.

Yeah.

I mean, Mendoza was running buds, too, and he would say a lot of times you look at these fucking scrawny guys.

Yeah.

Those are the ones that make it.

And then you got the D1 athletes that haven't had or gone through a whole lot because they're gifted athletically.

Up here, though, they're not as strong.

And that fucking scrawny guy over there is bringing that D1 athlete with him.

Yeah.

Yeah, those stories.

That's kind of the case with fighters, too, sometimes.

Sometimes it's the guys that aren't talented that wind up being champions because they're tougher and they work harder.

Yeah.

Because they don't have it given to them easily.

You know, they can't half-ass in the gym.

They have to be all in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's the life, right?

It's the sacrifice.

What are you willing to do?

And you, you, you know, you have to be all in in that job, both jobs.

Yeah.

And comfort can kill you.

Oh, yeah.

In everybody's life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I hate it.

I know.

I know.

I hate it.

I know, man.

I would have thought that one day that I'd be wealthy and that I'd be just fucking chilling and going to the beach.

Like, no.

Now you're going to college every morning.

Yeah, no, I fucking hate it.

I think it's the enemy.

It really is.

It's the enemy of happiness.

Yeah.

It really is.

Even

like me with acting, it's like I live for it.

I love it.

And I honestly do believe I've just worked my way through stubbornly.

Like I'll just outwork people.

It's not like I was gifted this talent or it truly isn't i'll just outwork people and then now it's like 44 now which is crazy and um

now i'm starting to be like okay

you're thinking about kids you're thinking about i need a little more balance

but then i start this balance and it scares the fuck out of me and i don't like it how does it scare you just it's the comfort right it's like oh kitsch don't take this just go keep fly fishing Keep, you know, just go on a motorcycle trip, go, which is great.

And I'll still do it.

But I'm just so conscious of it of like, don't get fucking comfortable.

Don't think.

Don't rest on your work.

You know?

Comfort's not bad if you earn it.

Right.

But you got to earn the fuck out of it.

Where, like, when you're sitting on that couch, you know that you actually need to recover.

Like, if you're going to keep going, you need to recover.

So, like, watching South Park is probably good for you.

Yeah, yeah.

Actually, like, medicine.

Yeah.

You You know, just fucking, let me just zone out.

True, true.

Yeah.

But there is that, I think, I don't know, do you have that with the fear of failure still of just like.

Of it all falling apart?

That, and like, I'm on set in two weeks, and I'm fucking scared.

Yeah.

And it's a heavy roll, shit ton of dialogue.

I think that's because you're doing the right thing.

It's kind of like it's what you're supposed to be doing.

But I can't sit on that fucking couch because I'm like, what the fuck are you doing, kid?

kids well now you can't sit on the couch because it's getting ready to be go time yeah but that's why you you're doing what you do i mean you you have to be a little scared of what you do you have to be yeah like monday i'm going elk hunting yeah kind of freaking out which you guys do because it's hard yeah it is it's i got in shape i got like did a lot of cardio a lot of leg workouts because you're going you're huffing it up those mountains i've i shot three hours of arrows today fuck three fucking arrows i'm pulling three hours i'm I'm pulling back an 80-pound bow.

No joke.

Yeah, it's a lot of work, man.

I work hard, but it's because when it's there, you want to be prepared.

So leading up to it, I get like fucking super serious.

I get like really like where it's with me all day long.

It's with me when I'm approaching my teeth.

I know it.

With me when I'm putting on my underwear, with me when I'm sitting in the cold plunge.

I'm thinking about the mountains because it's a hard thing to do.

And that's why I do it because I love it.

But it's also because it's a hard thing to do.

And when you're getting ready to do like a role that's like a fucking intense role the nerves are a good thing they're your friend yeah that truly keeps you on it sex feeling yeah you can't eat like that's that's your friend or you're yeah looking through my girlfriend yeah you barely listen running lines yep yep yep fucking what if I do this in this scene uh-huh but they want to talk about Taylor Swift's engagement right

and then you're an asshole right like what did you say you're not listening I was I was listening I just spaced out for a second.

I'm sorry.

Yeah.

And then you go back to being spaced out after apologizing.

Or I'll just literally be like, I'm going on a bike ride.

And I'm gone for two, three hours.

And then I'm running shit in my head.

It's so true.

But it's the same.

I equate it to like when we're rolling.

It's like, you ain't hiding no more, kids.

You're fucking, you're in it.

It's the same thing.

Once you get exposed to that elk, it's like, this is your fucking moment.

Yeah, you're right.

We're going to see if you did the work.

Yeah.

yeah, 100%.

Yeah, I think people all everyone needs something like that, but it scares people so they shy away from it and they look towards something that's guaranteed.

You get a guaranteed paycheck.

It's easy.

It's simple, but that's the that's that's your enemy.

Yeah, that's how it that's how your life becomes this just dull shade of gray.

Yeah,

you know, I know.

Yeah, not good.

You're very fortunate.

You're very fortunate.

You've been able to do what you love and that what you love is,

you know it's it's very exciting yeah like and it's very exciting to other people it's very rewarding like i do i loved you in american prime evil thanks that role

that was my gladiator

that was intense that one scene where you're getting changed where and you see all the cuts all over your body yeah you're like whoa yeah like it just that scene i lost a bunch of weight for it um and then howard burger did my makeup for that and he's fucking incredible And that scene,

man,

that scene meant a lot because it's everything.

You saw the guy is raw, naked with his Shoshone brother and starts up with a yao.

Covered in scars.

And then goes into that teepee with the chief,

the mother of his wife that he lost.

And I wrote that scene, man.

Whoa.

Yeah.

And so Pete and I came up with It's Only Pain.

And then I broke my foot and got a fucking bone cut out of it on that show.

And you know, the scene where

they cut a bone out.

So there's a scene where I go down to get horses, and I kill five or six guys at this skinning camp, and I think it's episode two.

And Betty Gilpin, who's amazing, comes down and she's like, didn't trust me.

And she comes down and I have to kill these guys.

During that sequence,

I broke this, my foot, and they call cut.

And I go to Dashnaw, the stunt coordinator, and

I'm like, oh, it's broken.

And he's like, I've worked with him for 15 years, and he's like, don't fuck with me.

And I'm like, no, Dash, it's broken.

I got this shooting pain in my groin.

And he's like, get the fuck out of here.

And I'm like, yeah.

So finish the scene and they spray fucking biofreeze on my foot.

And I'm like, guys,

it's broken.

Like, I'm fucked.

And so, I go to Bozeman, and he's like, It's this small bone right on the side of your foot, right there,

that goes up and down, right here.

Next to your toe, connecting my big toe, it's on the side bone on my big toe.

Uh-huh.

And so, he's like, Oh, you can wear a boot.

It's a small bone, so you won't need to, it'll heal itself.

So, I go back and I'm in a boot doing this fucking show.

And I got a six foot six Wrangler.

So, when I get off that horse 90% of the time, I think his name's BJ,

great dude, big cowboy.

And he's below me off camera taking my weight because I can't step off the horse because I'm in a fucking boot.

Medical boot.

Yeah.

And then six weeks goes by or a month and I go back to Bozeman, take my boot off.

And

he does one last x-ray.

And he's like, you need to be in surgery today.

Oh, no.

That's what I said.

That's a shitty call to Netflix and Pete and

so I got surgery and then right before surgery

he's like we can pin it but you're gonna be super active and it may not take or I can cut it out and put bone wax on it bone wax yeah didn't know there was a thing that

I don't know either

So you just said cut it?

Yeah.

Because he wanted to go back to work.

Yeah.

So they cut a chunk of bone off.

And what is bone wax?

I think it just is a protective coating over it.

Ooh, look at this.

Commonly supplied in sterile sticks usually requires softening before it can be applied.

It's generally made of beeswax.

Softening agent uses paraffin or petroleum jelly, and it's smeared across the bleeding edge of the bone, blocking the holes and causing immediate bone hemostasis.

Still don't know what it means.

I don't know what this means.

This is a tamponade, tamponade effect, but closure of blockage as if by a tampon, especially to stop bleeding.

You have a tampon on your foot, bro.

Yeah, I do.

That's crazy.

Oh, God.

So does your foot fuck with you now?

Yeah.

It's

if I'm fly fishing or on uneven ground, it's or if I'm doing, you know, if I'm tracking or doing something side hilling, which I fucking hate.

Right.

Side hill hiking, I hate it.

I have a terrible knee as well.

That's where it bites.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then,

yeah, so I dealt with that.

We had to, I had to be on the couch for six weeks, but my first day back was those two scenes.

And I had called Pete and I'm like, hey, I wrote this scene.

I'd love, because that scene was exposition with my mom at first.

We were talking about Red Feather and stuff.

And I'm like, this is my first day back after losing them that I haven't seen her since I've lost her daughter and her grandson.

So this guy can't get through anything.

So that was the crutch.

And thank you for noticing.

That's the crutch of that whole arc to that guy.

Yeah, it was an intense scene because it was so realistic.

Yeah.

Like, well, that's what a guy would look like.

Like, I hate when you see someone who looks like they've been living an easy life.

Yeah.

And they take their shirt off and they're supposed to be like in some rugged outdoor environment.

They just look soft.

Yeah.

Or he's stacked and incredible.

He looks like he's being in the gym.

Yeah.

Eating creatine.

No, you look like a hard man, like a hard man who's been through some fucking hand-to-hand combat.

It looked very realistic.

Yeah.

Did you have to starve yourself for that?

Yeah.

How much did you have to lose?

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Just to get

time.

I had time, which was great.

I lost 30 for that.

Whoa.

Yeah.

That's a lot of weight.

Yeah.

But I had done it.

I did this one film called the Bang Bang Club here.

I was just living off Lamar here.

And

I play this drug-addicted

true story about these war photographers right before the, during the apartheid, right before the first free election, Mandela's election.

Kevin Carter is his name.

He won a Pulitzer for this epic shot that he took,

got a lot of flack for it and ended up taking his own life.

But that, I had 30 days to prep and I lost 35 in 30 days.

Whoa.

And I remember going just over 535 here to this dock and my heart rate was fucking low 20s.

Oh god, because all I was doing was running coffee and I would

the broth can be super salty, sodium heavy, so I'd filter that and then just have broth and broccoli for dinner.

Oh my god, you're just starving yourself.

Yeah, it was bad.

And then I got a thyroid problem from that.

And that doc, that doc was like,

hey, you're going to fail this physical, just so you know.

And I'm like, what do I got to do?

I'm going to Africa next week.

And he's like, do some push-ups.

So I did push-ups and got my heart rate into the low 40s.

And he's like, okay.

Wow.

I know.

That's crazy.

That's crazy.

I was hurting.

You were probably kind of dying.

Yeah.

That's nuts, dude.

And then I was hurting.

They would shoot me out on Bang Bang Club.

Like, just shoot your coverage and go.

Go back to bed.

And then I ended up getting a nutritionist there

and uh she helped me a little bit but that was a quick shoot but um that's where i think i fucked my body on that one wow and then koresh again lost weight for that that was great by the way thanks that fucking whole korean talk about so crazy i know man what is it like doing that movie because it's another real life yeah

that was i was just prepping right there too um

that was almost too long a prep here's me saying i love prep but i had had six months to get into that headspace.

And it just, the last month, I tried to pull out of the show.

Really?

Yeah, because I was just, this is, I was just, you're holding, hoarding all this energy.

And I lost the weight learning to play guitar and sing, which was a fucking comedy.

I'm fucking terrible.

He was terrible too, though.

Yeah, he was.

That literally helped me.

I would listen to Dave and I'd be like, wow.

That guy sucks.

He's shit.

I have no idea how he got people to follow him with that fucking terrible scene.

If I was in that column, I'd go, yo, we got to reevaluate.

This guy is not Christ.

He is not the leader.

He's actually kind of fucking terrible, right?

Should we leave?

Sucks.

His fucking music sucks.

What is it like getting in the headspace of someone who's that depraved, too?

And who has that kind of like sick control over people

why figure out the why why did you figure out why yeah i think so yeah um go to his childhood which was fucking terrible of course um like you don't become a cult leader

two great healthy parents

always giving you hugs siblings and you decide to be a cult leader no yeah yeah he memorized the bible by 15 whoa which is fucking

that says enough right there.

Hudson 10.

But he was like tied to a radiator on his birthday and

abused pretty hard.

I almost bought his car.

Oh my God.

I tried to pull the trigger on his car.

He had a 1968 Camaro, and a buddy of mine texted me and said, yo, David Cresh's car for sale.

And he knows I'm a car head.

And I'm like, are you?

I love cars, especially old muscle cars.

Yeah.

I got a bunch of them.

And I have a 69 Camaro.

And I was thinking about, at the time, I didn't have any Camaros, but I was thinking about getting like a 68 or a a 69 or a 67.

I like the 69 is a little bit more like a little wide body.

But then I found out it was Koresh's car.

I was like, whoa, that would be wild to drive to the comedy store in David Koresh's Mustang.

In Texas.

Or David Koresh's Camaro, rather.

But then I thought about it and I said, you know what?

I don't want it.

I don't want.

anything from that guy.

I don't want that emoji.

I don't want to hold his steering wheel.

I don't want to sit in his seat.

I don't want it.

I don't want it.

Also, what a piece of shit.

That guy's a preacher.

He's driving around in a muscle car.

Like, for sure, right there and then.

Terrible sitting

in a muscle car.

Ego.

Little bit of an ego.

A little bit of ego.

I mean, not that you can't enjoy.

I love them.

I think they're one of the greatest accomplishments of American engineering in terms of like a piece of functional artwork.

Yeah.

American muscle cars.

I love them.

I'm that way with motorcycles, too.

And I got to set, we shot actually in Waco Wanted Nothing to Do With Us.

Of course.

Yeah.

Rightfully so.

So we shot that in Santa Fe.

Like to change that.

Yeah, man.

And

Wico's a great town, by the way.

Yeah.

It's great.

It's grown like enormously, too.

But

yeah, his motorcycle came for sale, and obviously they knew we were making it.

kicked tires on it and uh they wanted just it was probably worth two grand they wanted 15 or something and it was just like go fuck yourself right they were just honestly like you just said what am i gonna do with his moto yeah i thought

I thought it was silly at first, and then after a while, I'll be like, I can't do this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Before we opened up the comedy mothership in town, I was under contract for this place called the One World Theater that was also owned by Colt.

Yeah.

No way.

Yeah, the One World Theater.

You know where it is?

It's on B Cave.

Well, this is what's fucked up about the story.

Ron White performed there once because they have concerts there.

And Ron White did stand-up, and we were talking about opening up a club, and he said, you should buy that place down on B Cave.

It's the fucking shit.

It's a beautiful theater.

I think it's for sale.

I played there once.

It's amazing.

I was like, All right, well, Ron White's the fucking man.

If he tells me, I'll go check it out.

And I check it out, and I'm like, Yeah, we could do this.

Let's do it.

And so, sign the contracts, all that.

And then I get a call from my friend Adam.

He goes, Hey, did you ever watch the documentary on that cult?

I'm like, Oh, no.

There's a documentary.

The documentary is called Holy Hell, and it's about a guy who's a gay porn star and a hypnotist that was a yoga instructor.

Oh, my God.

Checking every box.

Yep.

So his yoga instructor in Hollywood, and then

the cult in Waco gets taken down.

And then he is on the run now because now the cult awareness network starts going after all these cults after Waco.

They're like, hey, you know, people's children are getting kidnapped essentially by these fucking maniacs.

And, you know, winds up being like Waco, we got to stop these cults.

And so he moves to Austin and changes his name

and

has a the you know, this is in the 90s.

You could get away with changing your name.

Nobody, no internet.

And so this guy has his followers build him this theater so he can dance in front of them.

The documentary is bananas.

And I see the documentary.

I'm like, oh my God, I got to get out of this.

After I see the documentary, I'm like, I got to get out of this deal.

I got to get out.

And fortunately, there was a problem.

Fortunately, there was a problem.

Because, you know, you got a bunch of cult members building a place.

They're not going to do it to code.

No.

And so it was.

It was just like his residence.

Yeah, there was a lot of shit that was wrong, wrong a lot of wacky they didn't want to pay for it i'm like good let's just yeah so it cost me a little bit of money and i got out of it and then we eventually got the writs on on sixth street and that's the perfect spot anyway but

it was the thing of being in that building yeah knowing what happened i'm like i can't handle this

different energy 100 200 people

wasted their life with this asshole for 20 fucking years and there was a bunch of them crying at the end of the documentary.

Like, I lost my my life.

My life is meaningless now.

I thought I was going to be with them forever.

Now I'm a dog walker.

I'm like, oh, my God.

I know.

I can't carry that in this club.

I can't feel it.

I'd have to tear the building.

I just thought it'd be silly.

You know, oh, building built by a cult.

Perfect.

We'll take it.

But the reality is, every cult winds up being the same thing.

The guy wants all the money and he wants to fuck everybody.

It's almost every one of them has the same profile.

And fear-based.

Always.

Always.

Always fear-based.

Always.

Everybody else is the enemy.

I'm the solution.

The nutty thing about this guy, though, is that he would do this thing to these people called the knowing, and you had to earn it.

And when you earned it, it was this very special, ceremonious moment, and he would put his hands on their head, and he would do something to them.

And these people would feel God.

They would experience God.

And I know that it has to be some sort of a placebo effect or psychosomatic, something where your your brain triggers this energy but all these people that called him a fraud that hated him i wasted my they all talked about that moment like it was the greatest moment of their life still they're like i gained a connection to god and to the universe that to this day was the most profound and loving moment of my life It's like, yeah, the guy was a total piece of shit.

Scam artist, con man, liar.

Everything was wrong.

Yet he was still capable of doing that thing to them.

Condition them.

For years.

He had them thinking about the moment that it was going to come one day and then he would take it away from them and then and then one person would get it and they would all sit around and watch and they're like, when am I going to get it?

But when they got it, they would all be like, oh.

Because we know that the brain produces psychedelic chemicals.

And I guess you can trick it, which is, I think, what a near-death experience is.

I I think a near-death experience, your body's like, it's over, flood the gates.

Yeah.

And then

it rolls through.

And then you go down the tunnel and light and all the jazz and you meet dead people.

But this is, I think this is possible with everybody.

You just have to achieve the right state of mind.

I know people in kundalini yoga, the people that are like heavy into it can fucking completely trip balls.

Really?

I had a buddy of mine who had done DMT.

Oh, yeah.

And then he really, he'd done DMT a couple of times, so he knew what the experience was.

And then he really got into kundalini yoga.

And he was doing it for like six months.

And then what is kundalini?

It's a very specific kind of yoga that involves like deep breath work and there's a lot of like head bobbing.

It's very strange, but it's you achieve a DMT-like state.

He's like, you achieve a full-on psychedelic experience doing kundalini.

And I was like, whoa.

And I've always thought about like trying it and practicing it.

I'm like,

I don't have the time.

I don't have the time.

I'm too busy.

I can't think about some new thing to be obsessed with.

But my point is that there is some little trigger in your brain that if you can trick your brain into snapping over to on, it just I believe that part.

This fucking cult guy did it to those people.

As much as they hated him, as much as they knew he was a fry, he fucked everybody.

The crazy thing is, like, they didn't know that everybody was getting fucked.

And so, like, one guy leaves the cult and he sends out this group email: like, hey, this guy's been hypnotizing me and fucking me for like 10 years.

And they're all like, I thought it was only me.

And then it became crazy where everybody had a story.

Oh, yeah.

Everybody had a story.

He would charge them money for these experiences.

And then he'd fuck them.

Of course.

Jesus.

Hilarious.

But terrible.

Yeah.

And so I didn't want that building.

So

like I didn't want Koresh's car.

Let me look at that contract again.

No.

So when you were getting close and and you wanted to pull out, was it just the heaviness of carrying around this guy's weight?

Yep.

Yep.

And then I called my manager, Steph, and she's like,

give it a day.

And then the Dowdo brothers, who wrote and directed, terrific guys.

And

I called John.

And I think one thing that set me free probably on month three, because I was really stuck on everything we've just said of like, why am I playing some guy that's pretty fucking reprehensible in a lot of ways?

A real person.

Yeah.

We did real damage to people.

But I was judging him.

And that was like really a big block for me because I couldn't understand him more.

And so once I started to not cast judgment or my own judgment on him and just try and understand and root him.

Then I was like, okay, I'm going to fly now.

Of like, this is his childhood.

This is why he's doing this.

And so it's your guys' job can judge away and do all this.

But for me to play this guy, I can't bring that to him.

Right, right, right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that helps.

I got to be that piece of shit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I got to do it and try and root that.

When you got done with the role, was it like a thing that you had to cast off yourself?

Like Bang Bang Club fucked me.

I was hurting pretty bad after I didn't know my process very well.

And, you know,

Kevin Carter was just really, really troubled.

And I think it was Mandrax, which is an animal tranquilizer that he would take.

Oh, boy.

Yeah.

And he would have

night terrors and all this.

There's photos of him.

Like, they called it the Bang Bang because they had these police scanners.

And once they would, this is early 90s in South Africa.

And once they heard it on the scanner, it's like a bang bang.

And they would be there a lot of times before the cops, like some kind of civil rights or civil fight would happen and they would get hear it on the scanner and they'd go like scooby-doo kind of shit they'd get there before the cops a lot of time or the military and they'd be in the middle of this shooting it uh photographing it and you see pics of kev that are just like him in like one shoe

high

hiding behind like a fucking barrel in the middle of this gunfight.

Like they would get really into it.

And then he was a guy that just kind of took everything to heart, you know, of just he would see some fucking pretty abysmal shit and just be like, take it, you know, wear it.

And it just hammered him.

And so he would take these drugs and just to sleep and just to get over or get through it.

But yeah, that was really tough coming out of him just because I didn't know myself enough or process be able to really kind of

became a part of him.

Yep.

And then the weight and all that.

And then with

Dave,

yeah, I was so ready to gain the weight back and just wipe my hands with it.

I always go on a motorcycle trip after, and that sets me free, helps me a lot.

I'll write letters and just burn them.

That helps a lot.

They say when you're like, if I get therapy or something, or it's like write a letter and literally watch it burn.

And that is something like that's a mind trick, I'm sure.

just like if there's trauma or something figure out a way to let it go that way yeah like a ceremonial purging exactly yeah yeah

so so that was a bang bang was harder than Quresh yeah on me because you would like not you hadn't been used to carrying around someone else's thoughts exactly and that was the first time I started having really bad nightmares in South Africa And

I just that started fucking with me a lot.

And then I was really happy.

It only a four-week shoot.

Did you try that tranquilizer, whatever the fuck it is, so you can know what it's like?

No, I've only smoked weed three times in my life.

Nothing else?

Nothing.

Little booze?

Little booze, yeah.

Yeah.

First time.

But just weed.

Yeah.

Wow.

Savages

with Oliver Stone.

Oh, no.

So Oliver goes hard.

He does.

I was surprised he still smokes weed.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

And I was in rehearsal, and he asked me and i hadn't smoked weed ever before oh my god yeah and i'm playing this guy this obviously a seal but that smokes weed grows weed sells weed gets into the cartel and you smoked with oliver stone the first time no my first time he gave me some of his medicinal And I went with a buddy who smokes weed all the time.

And I was staying at the Shangri-La in Santa Monica while we were filming.

And my buddy

brought over

a bong, a water bong.

oh no

oh no that's not how you do it

if you're gonna do it the first time this is what i tell you to do just go like this

that's it that's it just a little hit you got to dip your toes in there drug is uh also known as qualudes oh

interesting

that's what qualudes are wow qualudes a brand name for it what does it say it's it's doing to your brain

oh it's a muscle relaxer insomnia there you go how do you say say that word?

Methiquoqualone?

Methiqualone.

Qualone?

Combination of drug known as mandrax, sewn primarily in Europe containing 250 milligrams of methiqualone and 20 milligrams of

diphenhydramine.

Diphenhydramine?

In a single tablet.

Whoa.

That is true.

Commercial production was discontinued in many countries during the mid-1980s due to widespread misuse, addiction, and associated public health concerns.

Yeah, you know, when a popular drug gets pulled,

it's pretty bad.

Yeah, that was no joke.

So, just because that was the first time you'd ever tried carrying around someone's thoughts, that was why, because he was so fucked up.

And I was that actor where it was like, I got to be in trauma too, then.

Right, right, right, right.

Definitely.

Real.

Yeah.

But it comes out.

That's the fucked up thing.

It comes out in the role.

Like, it seems real.

Like, as nutty as Daniel Day-Lewis's process is, when that motherfucker is that guy, and there will be blood, you believe it.

I drink your milkshake.

He's fucking there, man.

He's dialed in.

He's the best.

But it's just that process has got to be fucking soul-crushing.

Yeah.

Because you lose you.

You lose you, and now you're some fucking

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Up person like David Koresh,

having nightmares, living in a fucking mini hotel room in South Africa.

Jeez.

Like, lonely as fuck.

Yeah, it's no joke.

That was no joke.

But I've learned my process a lot more.

Did you have to refine it on your own?

Did you get help with that?

Yeah, it was Waco that really kind of set me straight in my process, really helped me figure out like my me.

Because it's all self-exploratory shit as well, is acting.

And then you're just way more conscious of it of like, okay, like even with relationships relationships of like, okay, that's, I, I can get quite short, like be like true detective, I was oddly an asshole through the whole thing.

And I had my best friend of 30 years with me helping me on that.

And I was drinking like a, to blackout.

And that's not me.

I don't drink much, but I was just a fucking mess.

And my buddy was, is like, played in the NHL, AHL, was a fighter.

Like he would fucking murder me.

You'd get shitty with him.

Really shitty with him.

And I would poke them.

That's booze, bro.

I know.

Booze.

It is.

It's the worst.

I know, man.

It's the worst for that.

So really people get themselves into situations that they really should not be in.

And I would poke them, man.

And we'd go to this shithole bar.

It's called Sports Harbor.

I don't even know if it's open anymore, but I would fuck around.

And I didn't have to find out, but I definitely was getting that really I was conscious of it.

And he would have to have a moment with me of like, hey, you said this last night.

Do you think it was partly because you're trying to play a detective and detectives are kind of

in the closet, just a mess.

So do you think that's what it was?

Yeah, I do.

Yeah.

Because after I shed it or after it wrapped, I was with my sis right after, but I was fine.

I didn't touch anything.

But during, I was no bueno.

Wow.

Even getting ready for this,

I play this

director of corrections in Texas.

It's a true story about the longest

hostage situation

in the U.S.

in a prison.

It's 11-day hostage negotiation, and Freddy Carrasco is going to be played by Luna, Diego Luna, who's I can't wait to see what he fucking does with this.

But

I play the director of corrections, so we're negotiating for 11 days.

And

he's got to be quite hard on his, in, on the guys in his war room.

And he kind of comes in and he takes over the negotiation.

Um, and he's never done a negotiation before, so he makes a mistake here or there, and he, he fucking pays the piper psychologically for it because it doesn't end great.

And, um,

and so I'm starting to get into that mindset.

And when I'm with a buddy or something like that, I can be quite short.

And you start to see it filtering in.

I'm like, okay,

Jim is settling in me.

Like, I can start to feel it a little bit more.

I get a little more reactionary.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's so creepy.

It's like you're getting haunted.

You're kind of getting haunted by your characters.

But that's, dude, that's why you're so good.

I think that's, there's something to that, man, because you're fucking believable.

You know, like, I've seen you in a bunch of movies, but it doesn't matter.

Whatever the fuck you're doing, I believe, even though I know, oh, that's Taylor Kitch.

Yeah, I've seen him in Lone Survivor, I've seen him in this, I've seen him in that.

When you're in that, the same as the Daniel Day-Lewis thing, that's he's that guy, yeah, he's that fucking guy, and even though you know who he is, that's how good he is that he's still that guy, even though you know who the fuck that is.

Oh, I know, it's like the trick works.

That fucking monologue Daniel Day has on the porch, where he's like, I don't to his brother, I think it is, where he goes, I don't like people.

Yeah, oh,

all fucking time.

Yeah.

He is the best to do it.

Such a complicated character he played, too.

I know.

There was so much to it.

He's got something coming out soon, too.

His son, I think, directed it, which is going to be a fucking banger.

I think he plays a soldier that comes back.

Oh, I saw a shit.

The trailer just, yeah, that's right.

I saw a trailer recently.

Yeah.

That fucking thing of carrying a guy around like that, whether it's the detective or Koresh or the bang bang guy, it's like, that's got to be fucking exhausting.

Yeah.

Because you're like real light in real life.

You're friendly and like, hey, what's up?

How you doing?

I was, because I didn't know.

I didn't know what you're going to be like.

Everybody's different, you know?

I heard horror stories of you.

Have you really?

No.

No.

No.

I try to be nice.

But you know, I was just with Sheridan the other day.

Oh, Taylor?

I love that guy.

Yeah, man.

I fucking love him.

And of course, Pete and every car, everyone's like, you're going to have a fucking blast.

No, for sure.

Everybody told me that about you, too.

Oh, great.

Yeah.

But, you know, you don't know.

I know.

I'm going to tell you someone.

But I'm glad I didn't meet you while you're on Fold Detective.

True Detective in Full Character.

You know, because Full Character is fucking crazy.

You're kind of hunted.

Yeah.

You got to live it.

You got to live it.

I think...

I mean, you look at anybody that's great at anything.

You have to,

it's the amount of sacrifice you're willing to give to it.

Yeah, you have to be

all in all the time.

And I think it's that, like the fear of failure.

And also, I don't want to fucking watch it and be like, oh, kids, you didn't.

Right, right.

That would kill me.

Right, right.

That would fucking kill me.

Yeah, the watching a guy phone it in is the worst feeling as a consumer of the show.

Like a

passenger on the ride, watching someone phone it in.

You're like, no, dude.

Do another take.

Yeah, that's what I'm doing.

Come on, man.

Thank you, motherfucker.

What are you doing?

You going through a divorce?

Yeah.

What's going on, man?

They're out there, man.

Can't lock in.

I've worked with some pretty fucking huge names that have apologized after a film or at the premiere or something that were like, hey,

I'm sorry, man.

I just wasn't there.

That's crazy.

Like, in my head, I'm like, no, I know.

Yeah.

Oh, I had Charlie Sheen on yesterday.

Oh, no way.

Yeah, and he was talking about his time doing anger management, about he was still really fucked up and just doing way too many drugs and he was trying to be locked in, and he was, and he just didn't do it.

And then he didn't want to do it anymore, so he was miserable while he was there, and he's all fucked up, and he's like apologizing to everybody now.

I was like, I am so really, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a sweetheart of a guy, like a really nice guy.

He's sober

eight years, almost eight years, amazing, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, damn, but you know, you can see the itch behind his eyes, right?

You know, that's a struggle.

That sober is a struggle, sober, because that guy went through it for so many years.

Yeah, the stories that he was telling about like literally how 1 a.m.

to 7 a.m.

would go by like that.

And then all of a sudden someone was pounding on his door.

It's time to go to work.

He's like, I am high as fuck on crack.

And he goes, and so I have to lie in bed.

So he'd lie in bed.

I try to close my eyes.

He goes, I'm not taking a nap.

He goes, I'm cracked out of my mind.

My whole body's vibrating.

And he goes, and then I took an ice cube and I stuck it up my ass.

Get out of here.

And the ice cube woke him up

and got him back.

Like he was literally falling asleep on the set.

And he said, give me a couple minutes.

And he shoved an ice cube up his ass.

That movie writes itself.

Bro, that guy went so.

Did you figure that out?

You know, you're just going to the fridge.

I got to wake up.

He's literally falling asleep.

How do I wake up?

Shove an ice cube up my ass.

I guess it works.

What were the other choices?

Stick a fork into electric socket.

How did you get to an ice cube up your asshole oh my god

but he was going that hard and you know he just he's so lucky he didn't die so were the uppers and downers and everything the crack well people that he the girl he smoked crack with the first time he ever smoked crack with eventually overdosed ah he told a story about the first time he smoked quack

this girl who's a crackhead she gave him a blow job while he took his first hit of crack he said to this day i can't top that experience he goes to this day he goes, I probably shouldn't say that.

He goes, To this day, this is the greatest moment of my life.

Wow.

Holy shit.

Like, oh, my God.

Isn't there a dock on him that just came out?

Yeah, that's what it's about.

Yeah,

he wrote a book and he did a dog.

Oh, he did.

Yeah.

He's doing movies again.

Is he?

Yes.

He's excited to be working again.

He was kind of a little bummed out that it took so long for him to get a job again.

But yeah, I mean, you know, he got a lot of

enforcement.

Yeah.

A lot of money.

A lot of insurance in the studio, yeah.

But now he's sober for eight years, so wow, good for him.

Holy shit, it'll sick.

60 now, he's in his 60s.

He actually looks good.

Does he?

So, for a long time, he looked terrible.

And I said to him, I go, Dude, you look better than I've seen you.

I mean, I hadn't seen him ever in real life.

It was the first time I ever met him.

But he looked good.

He looked healthy.

Look remarkable for a guy that's gone through fucking abused 20 years of redlining the machine.

Just bam!

20 years of crap.

I'm going to watch that dock.

Oh, it's the dock is great.

It's really entertaining, too.

It's really well shot.

It's really all shot.

Yeah, really well edited.

And I mean, that story family is pretty epic.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, Martin Jean is the fucking thing.

Come on.

Yeah.

Damn.

Yeah, no, we talked about Apocalypse Now, too, which is really crazy because he was on the set when he was eight years old.

Eight or ten?

Ten?

Ten.

Ten years old.

So he's 10 years old in the Philippines on the set of Apocalypse Now while it's being filmed.

Yeah, helicopters, fucking Robert Duvall, everything.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Dude, he was there.

10.

Oh my God.

And your dad's Martin Sheen.

In the Philippines back then, too.

Dude, I love that movie so much.

I wear this watch.

This is the Willard.

This is a reproduction of the watch that Martin Sheen wore in Apocalypse Now.

Yeah.

It's my favorite watch.

Yeah.

Because of that.

Yeah.

Because, well, it's a nice watch.

It's a Seiko.

But like, they all, the Vietnam soldiers all got Seikos because they were like super durable and reliable.

Look at that.

Let's give him one stat.

Oh, my God.

I didn't fucking get it in there, but.

Oh, my God.

On the set of Apocalypse Now

in 1979.

That is crazy.

Oh, how old was Martin Sheen then?

Looks pretty young.

Yeah.

I mean, what a legend, though.

It seemed like in the movie, he was in his early 30s, right?

Damn.

Yeah.

Crazy.

Crazy.

Crazy.

And you wonder why.

And then 10 years later, literally 10 years later, he's doing Platoon,

which is the next

epic war movie.

Oliver Stone's directing.

Willem Defoe.

Willem Dafoe.

Who's the other guy?

The other guy with Scarlett.

Tom.

Who is it?

Yes.

Dude, that guy ruled in that movie.

Yeah, he did.

He seems so scary.

Willem's an amazing guy.

Amazing.

Yeah.

That guy's, I love that guy and everything.

He was great in John Wick.

He's great in everything.

He really is.

He's great in everything.

Yeah.

Willem Dafoe's the fucking man.

Yeah.

But like to be there at 10, watching your dad filming the apocalypse now, and then 10 years later, you're in platoon and Oliver North is directing you and your narration.

Oh, excuse me.

Oliver Stone.

Oliver North, that's hilarious.

Oliver Stone is directing you and you're doing the narration.

Like the whole thing is nuts.

10 years.

How do you adjust to that?

No, No, you don't.

Well, that's how you adjust.

One word.

Yeah.

Crack.

Well, it took a while to get him.

That was his drug of choice.

It was crazy.

It started with Coke.

When that girl blow him, when the girl gave him a blowjob while he was smoking crack, it was crack from then on out.

It was like, I get it now.

It's a hard sell.

Damn.

It's just crazy that.

It's crazy that he's alive.

Yeah.

But one of the things that we were saying that I was talking to him about, I was like, no one could understand what you went through because no one has ever done that.

No one has ever been Charlie Sheen at 20 years old and been in platoon and you're the toast of the town and you're a baby.

Yeah.

You know, you're just getting out of high school.

You know, like what?

A baby, man.

And then the world's your oyster.

You're doing blow every night.

It's chaos.

Just nuts.

You're off the rails.

And every time you fail, you succeed better.

Like every time you go into rehab, there's a better movie waiting for you on the other side.

There's no consequences career-wise.

God.

And it just keeps going on.

It's like the baseball movie.

God.

I love that.

Major League.

Oh, thank you.

Oh, he was awesome in that movie.

The bass.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I grew up watching that.

Yeah, dude.

That guy's been in some great fucking movies.

He's been in some great fucking movies.

But to be him and to, you know, to know, there's no blueprint for that kind of thing.

What was his bottom-out?

Did he tell you?

He kind of, like, there was a bunch of bottoms out.

Yeah, losing.

And then eventually.

He was two and a half men or something.

Yeah, it was that.

And then it was his behavior afterwards.

And then

he very apologized to Chuck Laurie.

He says, we've talked.

I've apologized.

We're friends now.

Like, thank God.

Like, because I feel like does he live in LA?

Charlie?

I don't know.

I wonder.

Remember what he said?

I don't think he said.

I don't think I asked him.

I don't know if he's still there.

But he's been completely sober for eight years.

Good for him.

Yeah, good for him.

Holy shit.

Like, if he can do it.

Yeah, no shit.

That guy could do it.

And he seems to get it.

Oh, both of them.

Beringer was in that, too.

That's right.

That's crazy that they put that completely different roles.

Berringer and Blatoon was so scary.

Yeah.

Scared the fuck out of me.

Damn.

I love that shit.

Yeah.

It's just amazing that guy's life arc to go from being a child on the set of Apocalypse Now to 10 years later starring in the middle.

I think Apocalypse was like a two-year shoot.

Three, yeah, no.

We were talking about it yesterday.

Yeah.

I thought it was even more than that.

I think the entire production

forever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Francis Jorkopla, man.

Come on.

He nailed it.

To this day, I will watch that movie every now and then and just sit there and go, fuck.

Back then, too, to make a movie like that.

Yeah.

In 79.

Oh, my God.

Come on, man.

That movie was epic.

And it was like one of the first realistic war movies.

Then you got Platoon.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Epic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's crazy that he's, you know, he experienced both of them, one as a child watching his dad and one as a star and all within the span of a decade.

Yeah.

Which is like

2015 was yesterday, man.

I know that's the most formative years, too.

Yeah, 10.

Yeah, 10.

What were you doing at 10?

I wasn't in the Philippines.

That was the other thing.

He was like, I didn't know that that world existed.

He goes, I was living in Malibu, you know, in this beautiful town on the beach.

You know, everybody's like happy and wealthy.

And his dad's a movie star.

And then all of a sudden, he's in the Philippines.

And he's like, and Francis Four Coppola had all these sketchy people on set all the the time.

Like he's an artist.

He's a nut.

Like, everybody, come on and hang out.

There's all these weird fucking people around.

Three-year fucking shoot.

Yeah, in the jungle.

Yeah, literally.

Using helicopters from the army.

And he was saying that one time the army had to take the helicopters back because there was rebels and there was a little

insurgency.

Yeah, they had to borrow the helicopters.

There's another movie.

They had the whole scene rigged.

The river was rigged with explosives.

They're ready to film the scene.

And they were like, no, we need our helicopters back.

Holy fuck, man.

We need to go kill some people.

Old school movie making, though.

Yeah, man.

I mean, if you could go back in time to be on the set of any movie ever, what would it be?

Damn.

I mean,

I've got to, I had dinner with Gibson one night, Mel Gibson, and I've worked with,

what's his, Brendan Gleason.

So maybe Braveheart.

That was a big one for me.

That was a big one.

Yeah.

Boy, that was a movie.

It made everybody want a sword fight afterwards.

He's trying to go fuck something up.

Totally.

Get out of that movie.

Truly.

God damn it.

That one was big.

What a movie.

I mean, come on.

When the king pulls his house, he pulls the helmet off the king, and he sees he's fighting for the other side.

And then you cut to Gibson, there's those fucking blue eyes that are trying, he's trying to register that it's the king, his king.

And that moment for me was just like, oh my God.

Yeah.

Just beautiful.

Yeah.

Mel Gibson can make a fucking.

He really can.

You know what I watched again recently?

Apocalypto.

Amazing.

Same, by the way.

It's a blockbuster movie where no one speaks English.

Yep.

And no big movie stars.

Yeah, no big movie stars.

No one speaks English.

It's fucking

amazing.

It is.

And he used like real people that lived there.

Yeah.

Good for him, man.

Good for him.

What a fucking swing.

Yeah.

He's a fascinating guy.

Like, his brain is like, he's just rattling all over the place all the time.

First time he's on the podcast, he had a pen and he couldn't stop clicking it.

Oh, God.

Like, the entire time.

So click, click, click, click, click, click.

I'm like, you fucking crazy person.

Put the pen down.

Oh, man.

That was a cool dinner, though.

He told me

some stories of Braveheart.

Wow.

Of just riding the horse to all these cameras, like ripping the horse to one camera, seeing the shot, going to the next, seeing the shot, going in, doing the speech, going looking to playback.

Just like, and then he's like falling asleep, standing up.

He was so tired.

Like, that's like epic stuff.

And talk about realism.

Like, those fights

still hold up.

Yeah.

That soundtrack.

Come on.

That was an incredible movie.

Like, my dad played the bagpipes.

He played actually in the World Championships in 95 in Scotland.

Really?

Yeah.

From Canada?

Yeah.

Went to Scotland.

Yep.

Wow.

And then

he, uh, so the pipes to me, like, I remember he was an alcoholic and not a lot.

He wasn't around a lot.

And

he, uh, I remember some of my best memories was like, you know, the fucking sound of the pipes when you're putting air in.

It's the worst sound in the world.

It's like a rabbit.

like getting bludgeoned.

And we would be at Christmas, all all my cousins his side of the family and he would walk downstairs and you could hear this these fucking pipes getting air put in and you could tell he had a few and he was he would come up and stand in the middle of the living room and just rip the pipes and everyone's just like full stop and just beautiful and he'd play in in Barbados he worked in Barbados doing a lot of like the the pavers the golf pass and he'd play at funerals wow and um

when how did he do in the world championships?

I don't know.

That's a good question, but it's a great story.

So Prime Evil, I was fly fishing in the Madison, just West Yellowstone.

I had four days off.

So I went home to a Bozeman and was fly fishing.

Only my favorite spot in West Yellowstone.

My bro calls me and he's, and I'm like, I just caught like a 20-inch rainbow or something.

And I'm fucking ripping into my brother being like, this fucking, I'm killing it.

The rod's on fire right now.

And he's like, ah.

So my dad raced cars as well.

And his race car name or his, we called him Gooey growing up.

And he's like, Gooey's got 48 hours to live.

And I was like, ah, fuck.

All right.

Literally, just verbatim like that.

Like, I saw him the last 19 years, I saw him twice.

And one time was in Montana, and he had early onset dementia.

And my brother drove him down.

Great stories there.

But so I drive, I take my adventure van, drive up to Kelowna, my hometown.

And

I've got this big beard from Primeval.

And I hadn't talked to one of my brothers in years.

And then I was still close with the oldest and get to the hospital.

And he's,

I turn his wheelchair around.

And I'm like, hey, hey, Goey.

And he's like, who the fuck are you?

Whoa.

Yeah.

And he's on like oxygen.

And I'm like, I'm your youngest son.

And he's like, what are you doing here?

And I'm like, I'm just here to say hi and hang out for a couple days.

And he was like on point.

Like his brain was going.

And

it was a little like, I hadn't seen my one bro forever.

How long had it been since you'd seen him before that?

Years.

A couple years.

Yeah, probably two years.

And is it dementia that he didn't recognize you or the beard?

No, the beard.

It was the beard.

And I was limping

with that fucking toe.

And

so

we go up to his room.

This is a Friday at noon-ish.

And he's great, though.

Like, so we had this young doctor.

He's like 40, great guy.

I go and sit down with him.

He's like, I'm like.

Dude, he's dialed.

Like, what do you mean he's going to fucking die?

Like, he's on point.

And he's like, this is what happens sometimes when somebody like this he doesn't know he's dying but he is once like all three of us brothers all three of his sons were there and it's like a high

and everything he's just dialed into it all and just very present because everybody's there yeah and he's like the doc is like man i have a feeling all three sons haven't been together with him and i'm like in 25 years

and so we're all there

And I had my assistant back in Santa Fe.

And I was like, hey, my dad played for Kelowna Pipe Band.

And I was like, call her.

I'm like, you got to help me here.

Get a piper

and to come play for him at the hospital.

And she's like, on it.

And she was great.

And the next, the next, or Friday night, I'm like, Gooey, what do you want for breakfast?

And he's like, give me something I shouldn't have.

Give me like a fucking Costco muffin and

a stupid amount of whipped cream and a coffee.

And so, of course, I go overboard and bring him this fucking ridiculous, the big chocolate chip muffin and

the coffee.

And the next morning, but he had gone from like dialed to he's hurting.

And so we got this piper to come.

We fucking, we're not allowed to do this.

We bring him out in the courtyard.

And

the piper comes and he's asleep.

And she's like,

what do you want me to play?

Like, they know of my dad that he had played for the Kelowna pipe end.

And I'm like, I don't know many songs.

And I just obviously amazing grace and stuff like that.

And so she just rips it.

And he wakes up.

And we're all buckled emotionally, right?

Because this whole, the pipes to us is just like, that's our father.

That's like our only memory, one of our only memories for him.

So

she plays two songs.

and he's fallen asleep again and he wakes up and he's and I'm like, gooey, you got one more song.

And he's like, okay, he was a mama's boy, loved his mom and she was amazing.

And he's like, play one for my mother.

So I think at that point, he knew he was about to go see her.

And yeah, so we have all this on video and

his brother was there and his wife and his best friend growing up.

And so we fucking, the nurse comes out after the pipes.

They're not, obviously the whole fucking hospital can hear this.

And so we're obviously got caught.

And she's like, bring him up now.

And so we're like, yes, yes, ma'am.

So we fucking have him in his bed.

And you know, those like

wheelchair ramps?

It's like a hard 90 degree.

He's out.

He's sleeping.

And my middle, I'm the youngest of three boys.

My middle bro's big.

And then my other bro's like six, two, big boy too.

And we're fucking, we got him and we're stuck in that turn.

So now it's like weekend at Bernie's.

We're like, and this is like a

pain movie where it's like, he's fucking, I'm like, hey, Gooi's stuck.

Boys, he's stuck.

We can't get over this fucking corner because the bed's too long.

And we're dying.

Like, we needed a laugh.

And so I look down and Gooey's arm is like fucking crooked, jammed in that bar.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

So I'm like, oh, whoa, whoa, back up a bit.

So we back, loosen up, and it's like, it's not broken, but we...

He didn't feel any of this shit.

So we're like crying, laughing, because it's like a weekend at fucking Bernie's moment.

It's our dark humor, man.

You got to laugh in those moments.

Yeah, yeah, I guess.

And

yeah, because we were just buckled 10 minutes earlier get him to the room and he's in and out sleeping and um

the next day on father's day uh

i had i had to drive back to bozeman and uh we have dark humor and uh so everyone's in the in the room and i'm like all right get the fuck out of this room everybody like like a joke but the nurses are like oh my god what happened i'm like oh i'm sorry it's a joke i just want 10 minutes with him And then I got to go.

I got to go back to work, but I'm going to say goodbye.

And so they leave.

And

he's like kind of in and out of consciousness.

And he would wake up and look right through you.

Like he's trying to be with you or present.

I don't know.

That's kind of how I took it.

And he's fighting consciousness, I guess.

Small little side note, I was driving and the shaman who was helping me for Prime Evil,

he texted me once I got into Canada, and he was like, Hey, I had a dream, you got to fucking call me.

And I'm like, I don't know if I believe this stuff, but I'll call you.

And so I call him, and he's like, Hey, something's up.

And I'm like, I've told three people that my dad's going.

And he's like, I had a fucking dream that you're about to lose someone.

I don't know if they're close to you.

And I hate calling.

This is a crazy call, but I'm going to listen to this.

And I'm like, man, I'm on my way to say goodbye to my dad.

He goes, okay, that's what it is.

Yeah.

Weird is that.

Yeah.

What is that?

I know.

I don't know what that is.

I'm still.

And he's like, how, tell me about your dad.

What kind of guy was he?

I'm like, not very present.

He drank a lot.

And,

you know, some regrets, of course, and

this and that.

And he goes, okay, I'm going to set up an altar and pray for him.

And this is what I think is going to happen.

He's not going to cross over very easily because of the life he's lived.

And so when I'm one-on-one with my dad, I started the conversation.

I'm like, Gooey, it's me.

And out.

And he had soft hands.

That's one thing I remember.

So I grabbed his hand.

And our humor, I'm like, yeah, these are a little fucking soft, Gooey.

Like, maybe you should have worked harder.

Like, no calluses, like, nothing.

Just, you know, just trying to.

And then I went into like the nonprofit, and I'm going to do this, and I'm going to try and get back, and this and that.

And I promised him.

And

during that conversation, he would try and like be conscious.

And he was fighting to be there, present.

But he was, I think, gone.

And then two hours, I left.

And then on the way home, I broke all and he had passed on Father's Day.

And then

I was back to work on Tuesday fucking riding banana bread.

Wow.

My horse.

Yeah, with like Shea Wiggum, who's an amazing actor.

He played Jim Bridger and that.

But

yeah, Pete was great with me.

Did that help you hold a feeling of loss for your character?

I think it, I mean, how crazy art

simulating life and vice versa.

Especially when I'm doing it.

I'm playing a guy mourning.

Right.

And then all of a sudden, like my father, who I didn't really have died, but it's still your dad, you know?

And

Pete was like, hey, this, you know, do you want to ride banana bread into this, into this shot or walk them?

And I'm like, I'll ride him in.

And I was doing a scene with Shea Wiggum.

And

it was beautiful because I was upset that some knew.

that it's my news to tell, you know, but some had already knew the crew.

so I was a little rattled at that when I got to set because everyone was very fragile with me, which I understand.

But I was like, whoever told you guys, it's not your story to fucking tell.

It's mine if I want to share it with the crew or whoever.

But so I was a little upset on set, but then a lot, it was so beautiful, man, because a lot of these older guys on set would just come up and be like, man, my father was this guy to me, this guy, but you know, I just, I

feel you.

And they would share all their father stories.

So it was a beautiful experience.

And Pete was great and Betty Gilpin was amazing.

And that scene, I just buckled, like walked away from the

Fort Bridger and I just was pretty emotional.

And

Pete was like amazing.

And then we shot the scene.

He's like, go home.

And then I got to my trailer.

And literally to the minute of when I went down, that was the minute he got cremated.

Wow.

Yeah.

And then,

but I do think it was really cathartic to be playing that guy.

And then I had a beautiful sweat after, and I mourned him the right way.

You know, it did knock me, though, for like, I'd say six months after, I was like, what am I doing?

Am I doing everything or enough?

Am I living my life enough?

Because even if he's not in your life, you're still like, to witness that is it was heavy yeah but i had worn him right and uh

you know i'm in a good spot now but it was an interesting thing of

you just take stock i guess i've never lost somebody close to me um especially in that way

so yeah it was just a a blessing to be still on set working and doing that yeah sometimes you just need to appreciate people and sometimes it takes a loss before you appreciate others sometimes.

it's just like you just get too used to people, you get too used to them being around, you take them for granted.

And then if they're gone, you just

that's you know what, Joe?

That's what I was fucking literally saying.

He's just gone when I was just like that.

Lived in New York.

Uh, I had a best friend that was a drug addict, and uh, he was uh a crack addict at one point in time, and then uh later he started getting into uh harder stuff like opiates, and yeah, And he died of an overdose.

And

I moved to L.A.

in 94, but, you know, we stayed friends.

We hung out.

He would come out to visit me.

I'd go to visit him, but he was always fucked up.

He was always a mess.

Came to my house once and detoxed.

I didn't know that that's why he wanted to come to L.A., but he came to L.A.

and he was just so sick.

He just laid in bed for four or five days.

Brutal.

And then, you know, a couple of days later, he had to go back to New York.

But he died of an overdose.

And another buddy of mine that I'm good friends with called me up.

were we were all tight together and called me up and it just never made sense I was like how is he not here yeah how is he gone like it just

it just fucked me up where I knew he was gonna die I knew it was gonna happen but I couldn't believe it happened

and then you know you got to go back to work I know back to life you know just you and you feel so like a piece of you is missing yeah like the world doesn't make sense true a person isn't in the world anymore it's so hard to imagine until it actually happens.

So abstract almost.

And like you said, even if, like, I had, I had enough time to understand he was going.

Right.

But when they're gone, it's just totally different.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then you just take stock and you're like, okay, am I doing enough?

Am I whatever it is?

It's just.

Just tell people you appreciate them.

Sometimes

sometimes that's all it's going to do.

You forgave them.

Yeah.

Like I didn't hold, I wasn't that son that was like, fuck, where were you?

Why didn't you do this for me?

Blah, blah, blah.

I wasn't.

He is who he is.

Yep.

And you learn that as you get older.

Yeah.

People are who they are.

And some people also grew up with monsters.

That's the other problem.

If you try to pretend that, you know, your parents should have their shit together because you have your shit together and they were your parents.

No.

Well, because who raised them?

They were raised by people living in the depression.

Yeah, I mean, they were raised by animals.

Yeah.

Like,

yeah.

We've only been truly civilized.

Truly.

as humans.

I've only been truly civilized for the last few decades.

Truly.

I think most of history is just horrific barbarism.

It's just slaughter and crime

and repeat.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Over and over and over again until we developed the ability to communicate how bad that is.

And it doesn't fix it.

It fixes it a little.

It gets it, makes it a little better.

But still, still, even today.

You know, there's.

but the pipes.

So, every time I hear the pipes, I'm like, ah, it gets you.

Yeah, oh, I'd imagine now.

I do want to go to Scotland.

Scotland's beautiful.

Yeah, I haven't been there.

I've been there a few times.

I love it.

Yeah, I love it.

People are very cool.

It's not overcrowded.

And if you can get past the rain, which is kind of a good break every now, especially if you live in LA.

Yeah,

it's a good break to see rain everywhere.

Where they're like, good luck starting to fire out there.

Yeah, yeah, right.

And to go into the highlands and maybe take a motorcycle trip.

Or I do want to go and and watch those world championships oh yeah oh the high so the guy i hired a three pipers for his funeral oh wow and i pull in i got this on video and uh i pull into the parking lot a little church in the middle of my town

and they're doing the fucking putting the air in the bag and i was like this time it crushed me and i took a video from my truck and i went out introduced myself and he's like you're not gonna fucking believe this and I'm like he's older guy

and he's like I played next to your father at the world championships wow wow like just randomly this is the guy playing the funeral wow and he was fucking amazing And

he stayed a while and then it was like this little church.

You go into this little gymnasium kind of spot and he stayed and played in the in the back

and some of my that I didn't know but some of his my dad's favorite songs so i had those on video too but it was just beautiful wow yeah and it brought all three boys back together you know now we're on good terms it's been super cathartic i was the only one to speak at the funeral

and uh

i'm in the pew and it's his sister who i hadn't seen in a decade

and uh my two brothers and their kids and my oldest is just a puddle.

He's just, he's wearing sunglasses

and just a mess.

And the priest was actually quite great.

He was funny.

And

then my other brother was in front of me, and he was a puddle.

And he doesn't like speaking.

And I don't either.

As me,

I get a little nervous or whatnot.

I'm always good if I'm in character or hiding behind something.

But the priest was like, okay,

now's the time to say something.

And the whole church is just like,

and I look at Damon, my other brother Brody, and Damon looks back at me.

The priest looks at me.

He's like, now's the time.

Oh, so you just had it up.

Just waiting.

Yeah.

And then my auntie, Lee,

just squeezed my hand.

I'm like, I'm fucking saying something, aren't I?

She's like, yes, you are.

So I get up and I just said, you know, if there's any light to this whole situation, it's that all three of us brothers are back on great terms now.

Oh, that's great.

Yeah, it's great.

That's cool.

Yeah, yeah.

And then

right back to Primeval.

Yeah, right back to Primeval.

Go get on banana bread.

Take it out on those motherfuckers.

Man.

Yeah, what a trip.

What a trip.

Yeah, that is

a crazy experience, man.

When you were doing the Koresh thing, what was the thing that fucked you up the most about playing him?

About even preparing to play him?

Trying to root him emotionally to those circumstances that were so foreign.

Like the emotional beats of like, I just didn't understand it.

I didn't understand how someone could do what he did.

And then he was very woe is me.

Like, he played the victim incredibly manipulatively well.

And I would always say he's like a great coach.

And he would, a great coach would be like, with you, he could train you and push certain buttons, but then he'll do something totally different with someone else and incredibly manipulative.

So I think just trying to root that and understand,

I don't think I'll ever understand some of the actions, obviously,

to that level, like like how someone can do that.

But it is all out of fear and insecurity and trauma, like that part of it, I did understand.

And memorizing the Bible as a defense mechanism, because when he's with, there was over 20 theologians that would get on the call with him.

And I listened to child protective service calls, obviously all the Nesner calls, which was

played by Michael Shannon,

who's amazing.

And

every time he got his back to the wall and they had a point or had something or had a level up on him, he would go right into Bible speak, which nobody could keep up with him on.

So he would gain that upper hand and I would just go into a fucking dialogue about a dragon with one eye is about to come and show its face and bare its teeth and take the children.

Like, what the fuck do you say to that?

You know, if you're on the call

and you're trying to have a rational conversation of like, let the children out.

Right.

We want these kids out.

And he goes right.

And he just goes into this Bible speak.

You're like, there's no real rebuttal to that.

Right.

And that was, he did this with child protective services too.

on those calls.

He would just go right.

And that was such an anchor to him because nobody could play a card like that.

Right, because as soon as you say words from the Bible, you're right.

You have to be right.

And he's married

quoting the Bible.

Yeah.

And you're going to argue with me?

You're arguing with the Bible.

Right.

It's Trump card.

Truly.

Yeah.

Truly.

And he would go to like Oxford and have debates with theologians in the classes.

And that's how he recruited a lot of people that he would win these debates and they would come and join, come to Texas.

Like really, really, like he would write these letters to people and send tapes to Australia and get them to come.

Wow.

Yeah.

Like this was

incredibly smart guy.

Like that you have to give to him.

Isn't it so fucked up that someone with a brain that works that well would choose to use it in that way?

All just fear.

I mean, even the way like he's talking about God and the end of days and

how he needs to bear, I I think, around 22 children that are going to go up with him and ride a cloud up there and all these crazy things.

He had the answers to aliens.

What was that answer?

I can't remember, but people, I do want to know.

To your point, though, it's like

he ended up shooting himself in the head, right?

Which ironically, you don't go to heaven if you do that, which is...

But also, like,

he does all this shit.

And I don't know, just that was a big thing for like Paul Sparks and I, who played my right-hand man, of like when we shot that death scene, of like, man, like, I do wish, to your point, he was still alive and we could learn shit.

You know, all these guys, they end this.

Like, they drink the fucking Kool-Aid in the bed or the fucking, like, it's such a fascinating perspective that I do wish we could break that down and maybe learn something from this than just him shooting himself in the head and

burning in the house.

What you could learn, what you could learn, like, especially after the event, like the raid on the compound and everything.

Like, what could you, all the people are dead?

Like, what could you learn from that guy then?

He's going to be so fucked up.

Yeah.

I mean, nine people survived that.

One of the survivors, Thibodeau, was there with us, his drummer.

Oh, wow.

Every day.

Whoa.

And, yeah.

And what did he say?

He was like,

it goes back to your point that he still was thinking that he's coming back.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

Wow.

So he, I know.

Wow.

And this didn't come out until our last week of shooting because I got along incredibly well with him.

And he did give us, he did write a great book and give me insight to moments that I asked to be in the show.

But

I mean, he was going,

I don't know, to North Dakota or the Dakotas to someone had blueprints for an alien warship, and he was going to see these blueprints, and we're just in between takes.

We're in between takes, sitting in our set chairs, and me and Paul Sparks, and we're like, hey, what are you doing after this?

After we wrap?

And he went on and told us he was going to look at blueprints to this warship.

And we're like, okay.

Wow.

Copy that.

Yeah.

So those are the type of guys, though, that.

Wind up in Columbus.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sweet man.

Like, very helpful, was great to us and was very open.

But, I mean,

a lot of majority of people are followers, right?

So.

Well, there's a lot of people out there that have brains that don't really work that well.

Right.

Just truly.

That's just how it goes.

Yeah.

It's a very unfortunate roll of the dice, but your brain does not let you navigate through life very well.

And you need someone to hold your hand and tell you what to do, even if it's completely illogical.

And those people wound up becoming followers.

I think it was the new light.

He called it the new light.

This is a while ago, but I think it was the new light.

Dave woke up and he got all everyone together.

And he's like, I just had a word with God, and it's the new light something.

And it's where I'm going to, I'm the only one now that is going to sleep with the women

and This guy named Norm

I think he was Australian or anyways, this guy was like fuck that shit

I'm out and like 20 30 people laughed

but a lot stayed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're always gonna get people that stay and then they think that if they stay he'll like them even more now.

Yeah.

And those other losers who are in the way of them getting attention from dave now i'm going to be tighter i'm staying that yeah i'm team coresh

you can my wife throw

jersey on nuts team it is man nuts it is it's a weird thing that people have like encoded in us to look for a leader i know very strange i know you know i think it's just from tribal dna that's what i yeah that's a good point i never thought about that if when we were groups of like 150 people the only way we could survive you got to listen to the wisest, most experienced person, and that's the tribal leader.

That's how it always was.

It was the greatest warrior, the one who knew where the fish were, the guy who knows what you're supposed to eat and not eat, and where the danger is.

And that guy's going to help you, keep you alive.

And we always have that in everything.

We have it in businesses.

There's always like one top monkey at the top of the body.

It's a carrot.

Yeah.

Fucking carrot.

It's weird.

But you see it in chimpanzees too, man.

It's crazy.

It's a primate behavior.

All those chimpanzees, they have a tribe leader.

They have one guy who's the fucking top chimp.

He's running shit.

It's weird, man.

It's like it's encoded in us.

And so, for people that aren't that smart, someone like David Koresh can totally exploit that and go, I am the leader.

And you're like, wow, I'm so glad I met you.

I was lost without you.

You are found now, my son.

You are found.

And also, I'm like, that guy's so confident.

He must be.

I'm not confident.

Yeah.

He did say tanks were coming and they're here.

so literally that was a big moment

that was a big moment wow yeah that must have been for the seven seals he was rewriting the seven seals his final days oh boy i know

the whole raid on the compound thing is nuts it is when you see the fire coming out of the tanks you're like what did you guys do yeah

There's a guy that ironically was Dick de Gurin, his lawyer.

And he was speaking in Santa Fe when we were shooting this.

So I'm like, full fucking stop.

We're going to hear Dick de Gurin speak.

He's speaking about Waco?

He's speaking about his experiences as a lawyer.

Wow.

And he did.

And I went and introduced myself.

And there's a crazy story.

It was Dave's mom who called him and was like, this is what's happening.

Would you go help?

Blah, blah, blah.

He was on a fishing trip, I think.

And he's like, yeah, I'm going to go.

So he showed up to the compound on the perimeter that was set.

And he's like, I'm that guy's lawyer in that house.

You need to take me over there.

FBI puts him in a fucking tank.

And he goes to the front door in a tank.

And the door has this big piano.

I've tried getting this

in the show, and we couldn't.

But so there's a big piano at the front door, blockade.

Dave wasn't allowed to walk by the windows, all this kind of stuff.

This is deep into the 51-day standoff.

And

Dave's right-hand man, and played by Paul Sparks, and another, his lawyer, Harvard grad, I think,

answer the door.

And Dick's like, oh, I see the bullet holes in the ceiling, a couple bodies that the ATF

didn't allow you to take out.

You got a case here, but where's Dave?

And they show him the house and all this kind of stuff.

And so they're back in the foyer and the piano is against the wall and they're talking.

And he's like, okay, I don't, I want to help, but I don't know where Dave is.

And he's leaving and he's like, you got a fucking case.

And the right-hand man just goes,

Dave was in the fucking piano

listening to this whole thing.

What a psycho.

And so he got back in the tank and Dave got briefed of their walk through there.

And anyways, Dick DeGuerin was his lawyer on that.

What a fucking story, though.

How crazy.

And I wanted to be in that piano and shoot that.

Yeah.

That would have been unbelievable.

Yeah, that would have been an important part.

I know.

It's an important part of the story.

It really is.

That's how nuts he was.

He hid in the fucking piano.

So scared to get shot or didn't trust anything.

God.

But those guys apparently in that tank, they were like ripping Dick DeGuerin and like spitting on him and doing this kind of shit because they're like, you do know they just killed a bunch of ATF guys in that shootout as well.

And you're going to go fucking be this guy's lawyer?

Fuck you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

So

what started off the feud?

I don't even remember like who

how did bullets wind up flying?

Yeah, so it was Dave had

he was selling like homemade bulletproof vests and was like had these I know

fucking

and the ATF were kind of spiraling out like their funding was about they were about to get defunded and they needed a win

they needed it what was it the ridge uh ruby yeah yeah there you go so they dropped the ball huge on ruby ridge right

yeah so which is at the very beginning of waco and they needed a fucking win here find a cult leader into weapons, selling ammunition, I think, and bulletproof vests and this kind of stuff.

And this guy's got these kids and all this is perfect.

And that started it of just like, we're going to go get this guy.

And there's a famous tape that we put in the show, too, where Dave was like,

you know, why didn't you just like he did this run all the time and was kind of just out and about working on the house, running around.

He had a fucking go-kart track around the

compound.

And he's like, why wouldn't you just arrest me when I'm on a run, when I'm on this or that?

But they needed a lot of press and they needed to get funded again.

So they made this a spectacle and then it fucking turned into what you saw.

Like they were, they wouldn't let fire trucks come and take that fire out.

That's a fact.

And then

they're playing that music of animals being like mutilated into the compound.

Yeah, then they were flying the ATF flag.

I asked for that to be put in, but we didn't put it in.

But they were flying the ATF flag while it was burning down.

Wow.

Yeah.

It's legit.

Wow.

Crazy, man.

Wow.

They needed a win.

Yeah.

And then

I know.

I know.

Picture I-35 right here, fucking tanks

and all these armored trucks everything going down I-35

it's incredible you know and they're just sitting right in front of of the house and 51 days is fucking crazy that is crazy yeah

wow

I know it's just hard to believe that they would do that but then you you read the Ruby Ridge thing like they shot a woman while she was holding her baby yeah

the kid in the back I think yeah yeah the dog shot a kid dog yeah

And for what?

I know.

For what?

For nothing.

I know.

Yeah.

It's weird, man.

It's weird.

You could be an assassin for the government.

Yeah.

And even just think you're just doing your job.

But it's like,

this seems pretty fucking criminal, guys.

It's a lot.

It's a lot.

It's just hard to believe that they would.

77, six people died.

The video is 20, 20-something kids.

Driving over the house in a tank and shooting fire into it.

And then they denied doing that.

They denied doing that with the tank, shooting fire.

But you could watch it.

You could watch the fire come out of the tank.

Yeah.

It's horrible shit, man.

I know.

What a role.

So when you get out of that role, when you stop playing that guy, man, how long does it take for you?

You go back to being you?

Probably,

I bet you a month, six weeks till you shed it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Go do something that makes you feel you and alive.

Motorcycle ride,

something.

Get the fuck out.

Did you like dream of that guy?

Oh, yeah.

Not anymore.

But you did?

Yeah, oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Your subconscious, it's funny because it's like, that's, you marry yourself emotionally to said circumstance.

And so my subconscious, and I'm sure a lot of actors will say, it's like you're wide open.

And so you're more vulnerable.

I'm way more emotional.

And so because you just do the work and you're just, your subconscious is open.

So my, your dreams, once I start dreaming a little fucking crazy visceral stuff, that's when I know I'm getting closer for sure.

Wow.

Yeah.

You're like you're getting haunted.

A little bit.

It takes six weeks to detox you and fucking exercise the ghosts.

And then it's like

you play this guy.

You know what's fucking crazy?

It was ACL

and I was walking and prepping for Waco and randomly out of nowhere, this guy is talking about Waco and that it never happened.

Like this is so random.

And I was with my buddy who's out there and I was like, holy shit, what the?

We got to do this story now.

Like, there's people out there that believe that it's just one conspiracy theory that never happened.

That's okay.

And I was like, what?

There's people that believe everything, though.

I know.

If you can figure out the conspiracy, there's a whole group of people on Reddit dedicated to it.

Yeah, yeah.

You're late to the bar D.

Any conspiracy, just fill in the blank.

There's a bunch of people that think space is fake.

It's a whole online community of people that don't believe in space.

Yeah.

Okay.

There's people that believe a lot.

Yeah.

Just to say that alone just feels like...

sorry.

Yeah, it's the people that like flat earth is not crazy enough.

They want to take it to the next level.

The next level is space doesn't even exist.

Okay.

You know, that's all, you know, when you get older and people will just straight up, like, when they talk at you, telling you false shit,

you're like, okay.

Okay.

Usually I'll bite and be like, you're an idiot.

This is what is actually happening.

But no, now it's like, all right.

Sometimes get it out.

It's just exhausting though.

You just

shut up.

I know.

That's so fake.

Yep.

But they like double down.

Triple down on it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I just had one of those moments.

You used to be a lot more of those people before the internet.

I know, man.

That's a dangerous game.

Yeah.

I don't read shit, which has really helped me.

Oh, yeah.

It really likes me.

It's very healthy.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah.

I don't read any reviews.

Good for you.

Any of that.

I learned the hard way, man.

I got hammered on John Carter.

That put me in a dark spot.

But yeah, had to rebuild everything.

But yeah,

you're down that tunnel and you're just like, like, they're not just like, he's a bad actor.

It's like, this guy should die.

Yeah.

You're a terrible person.

Yeah.

It's nuts.

Personally, the world would be better if you were never born.

Yeah.

Like, whoa.

Damn.

Fuck.

I know you're just trying to write a saucy article, but holy shit.

That's a lot of fucking sauce.

A lot of vitriol there.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's weird, man.

People, but that's, you know, they like doing that to people they don't know.

It's

zero accountability.

It's so easy.

And now, because of social media, anybody can do it.

Yeah,

you never used to hear people's opinions before.

If you had a movie in 1979, the general public either went to see it or did not.

And it was like a word of mouth thing, and then there was like Siskel and Ebert and whoever else is reviewing stuff.

Five other reviewers.

That was it.

And if the New York Times said it was good, you'd go see it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But now it's like fucking

everybody.

Negative always beats.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You get more clicks on a negative hit.

And then, you know, that was the beauty of like Friday Night Lights.

Like, I never, there weren't reviews, really.

And I was just, we didn't have social fucking media.

We're in Austin, no real producers on set or writers.

We're kind of Pete set it up so great.

And you're just going there slinging, trying shit, failing, trying again it was such an amazing experience without all the extra yeah without any of the weight of like is this going to be successful like what does that even mean now you know yeah they well do they still do focus groups when they do a film yes they still definitely yeah so that's kind of like a small yeah

yeah

it is kind of because you're like well who are these people yeah they might be like you went to 200 morons yeah like by the way i like okoma yeah there's certain spots where you know, like if you wanted to tank a movie, you'd do a focus group and, you know, some moron community where everybody's on fentanyl.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You guys watch this movie.

I'm nice through half, but I don't like that guy's hat.

Do they get paid?

Is that like a job?

No, that's a good question.

I bet they do.

I bet they do, which is then you have to factor in, okay, what kind of a person is getting paid to do focus groups?

They might be a failure.

They might be a really dull-witted, dull-minded person, and they get to decide the direction of this movie.

I don't like the ending.

Yep, reshoots.

Oh, responding.

$20 million reshoots.

40% of the audience said they didn't like the ending.

40% of the audience wouldn't pass a piss test.

Yeah, true.

Even like John Carter was like one of the highest tested movies in Disney's history.

And we got hammered, obviously.

But it's like, I don't know how much that moves the needle or anything.

I think people distrust the media more than they trust the media now.

But if something sucks, like if a critic says it sucks, it still works.

Like if I see a one-star review, I'm like, oh, that movie supposedly sucks.

Yeah.

Like, I don't give it any other thought.

It still does work.

But if something's really good, people go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Fuck the critics.

Fuck the critics.

It's movie rules.

Like look at Adam Sandler's movies.

The critics always hate them.

The audiences always love them.

Always.

It's the most lock-sided.

I know.

It's crazy.

His movies are.

such a sweet guy.

He's the best.

He's the nicest guy of all time.

And he's a great regular actor, too.

Uncut Gems was bananas.

That movie gave me so much anxiety.

I was like, don't do it.

He played that guy, that gambling addict, so well.

So believable.

Great directors, too.

Yeah, it's just smart.

But his comedies, I love his comedies.

They're fun.

And I love that I can watch with my kids.

Like, he's got their funny.

like jack and jill is funny it's silly and ridiculous and al pacino's in love with his sister who is him

it's funny man it's a funny movie it's so stupid and silly yeah but that's but the critics hate those movies they hate them like okay what are you going to see it's an adam sandler movie this he's really good at making this kind of movie and there if you want to go see a fun lighthearted silly movie which we need a little more with a lot of heart to it yeah his movies are the ones to go to yeah but critics hate them yeah they don't it doesn't matter if people love it that's what matters yeah i mean terminal is season one yes we got hammered yes and the people spoke man yeah yeah yeah it did matter that's why i'm here yeah like that's why dark wolf is dark we're doing it you know it's because people wanted to see why ben is fucking the way he is and made that decision yeah

If it didn't, there's no way we would have got that green lit.

There's no way.

Well, because it's written by Jack.

So Jack Carr, who's a good friend of mine, who's an awesome human being and also a SEAL, and writes and had the goal.

This is how crazy Jack is.

Had the goal of first becoming a SEAL, getting military experiencing, and then becoming a great writer.

Like he had it in his head.

Did he really?

Yes.

He always wanted to be a SEAL.

He always wanted to serve.

So he wanted to do those things, get real life experience.

And that guy has a love of history.

It's unbelievable.

Incredible love of history.

Walking encyclopedia.

He's so brilliant, and his recall is phenomenal.

But imagine that kind of decision-making.

I'm going to be a SEAL.

I'm going to go get deployed.

I'm going to get military combat experience.

And then I'm going to go write books.

Damn.

This is his, that was his like

bestsellers.

Seven or eight.

And right out of the box, terminalist his first book is fucking incredible it's incredible yeah but the guy prepared for it his whole life like he's a voracious reader voracious reader reads constantly can recommend books constantly he's always great about that and his so his first book out of the gate it's like he'd been pairing for it his whole life i mean when he comes on to set And we are shooting this

episode five, he came to Budapest and his energy, like he's like a kid in a candy store, man.

It's like, I'm fucking gassed out, tired, and like just

getting beat up.

And here comes Carr, and it's just the light.

It just brings an energy to that set that is just like, man, we're so lucky to be here.

And you're like, you know what?

You're kind of fucking right.

We are.

Yeah.

And I just love that guy, man.

Super supportive.

Right when I got the role.

Yeah.

He's like, not pressing me.

He's like, I know you've played a SEAL before.

If you want any of my notes who Ben is, and he's like, if you want that long leash, here it is.

Like, I trust you.

Like, he's been nothing but amazing with me so far.

So he's a brilliant guy.

He really is.

Yeah, he really is.

Super caring.

Yep.

Yep.

Yeah.

Well, just a great man.

Yeah.

Like a truly great man.

Yeah.

It's so cool when a guy like that gets to write stories that

really reflect the true lives that he led, and then he knows a lot of his friends lead.

And it's real.

It's like he has an understanding of it that obviously the success of his books and the success of the series, that understanding just translates in a way like, oh, this is very authentic.

Yeah.

Even like little notes, man, I would get with the gun work and all that kind of shit.

And obviously you listen, but it's just like

he comes at you of just more excitement.

Mm-hmm.

And you don't take it personal.

You can't.

And you want to get it fucking right.

When you you have him and Jared Shaw, who's another SEAL, and Mendoza, who's a SEAL, and we got a

Army Ranger who writes a lot of it, like we're surrounded by these guys every day.

So if they want, if anything is not authentic, you're, I mean, the bullshit meter is like fucking two feet away.

Right.

You know?

And I love that, though, because they're doing a lot of my work for me, helping me, making me look like fucking Ben.

Right.

You know?

He's a complicated character, too.

Yeah.

A lot of that stuff,

like one of my best buddies, Jose, and had like 200 guys under him, fought in Ramadi and bomb specialist guy, wicked dude.

And

there's a moment in the CIA room in episode one that was written.

And then I kind of, I've been hearing this from him for so long.

And so it's kind of ingrained in me of just like how there's always someone to answer to and you're never really getting the full transparent part of what they're putting you out for.

So I'd heard all these stories for like the last, since loan, I met him on loan.

And

so that scene, I was like, this is for you, man.

I'm just going to fucking go and have at it with this CIA guy.

And he was at the premiere and watched it and loved that beat.

But it's like, I get to serve, you know, some of these guys that they don't get to have those moments.

Right, right.

And that's so fun for me to just fucking go and light them up in that room.

One of my favorite scenes.

Cathartic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I steal from these guys.

Even like, and I get it, I got hammered or Ben got hammered for being the twist of season one, right?

I'm the guy who kind of orchestrated a lot of it.

And

I was talking to Marcus.

Because I'm like, how the fuck am I going to root this guy, this SEAL that's like best friends with Reese?

And now all of a sudden the twist is like,

man, I had a hand in this.

I'm the guy that put you guys down that tunnel on that op.

And your whole fucking platoon died for the most part.

And

I just literally, it was like a little moment that I had with Lattrell where he was talking about going back and dying with his boots on.

And I was like,

really settle into what that means.

This warrior is just decidedly going to to die over there serving.

It's beautifully tragic.

And I was like, that is where I hung my hat with Ben of like how I can root this crazy twist of like, I'm making this decision for you, but you're going to go die with your boots on instead of this fucking, you're going to die rotting in this hospital bed, no insurance, your family, all this kind of shit.

I'm like, I'm going to take that decision for you.

So that's where I rooted Ben for season one.

Wow.

Yeah.

And then I go and open

the Mike Murphy Museum with Dan and Marcus and a lot of other SEALs, obviously.

And a lot of the SEALs were like, I fucking get it.

You know, but a lot of people just were like, how could you?

And I get that part too.

But it was just like...

Both things are true.

Yeah, truly.

Yeah.

Both things are true.

How could you?

And I can.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's a human being.

Yeah.

And, you know,

that's one of the reasons why the show is is so interesting.

Because

people are fucking super complex.

And how fucking gray it all is.

Yep.

And how it goes back to like you're in mourning of a buddy.

You broke this promise.

His family's dead.

And now I'm on an op and I get in front of the guy that killed this guy's family.

I'm going to fucking put him down.

Fuck this.

The beauty of Ben 2 in this is he's accountable for it.

Like, I'll take it.

Take my trident then.

I do it all over again, which is a beautiful thing.

And I think he does.

Like, it's a very,

it's an emotional reaction that, you know,

frays his life and the other character,

Rafe's character, he gets his trident taken.

But it's, that's one thing we were talking about earlier of just like, it's so fucking gray.

And in these really split decision moments that you have, and these guys aren't fucking robots out there.

It's like they're emotional.

They're fucking trained like better than anybody.

But at times they have to make these decisions that is like, okay, you're going to fucking put those girls on the black market or sell them or put them in the sex trade.

You don't get to live anymore.

I'm going to do that.

But that's a beautiful thing, too.

Yeah, and people can relate to it.

Because totally, if you were in that scenario, what would you do?

And most people would like to believe that it would say, you're not going to live anymore.

Yes.

Exactly.

We We have these talks on set all the time.

You know, American Primeval.

We can romanticize the 1850s, or at least I did at the beginning of like, this guy's a fucking mountain man.

This is sick.

Like he's a motherfucker.

Like if I, if you see me on the river in 1852 and you're like,

I want your jacket.

You're going to just come up and kill me and take my jacket.

Yeah.

Like that's how fucked up the 1800s were back then.

Lawless.

Lawless.

And so we started shooting, and

I was like, we're shooting at 10,000 feet up there, and you're cold, and we're still spoiled, obviously.

Your trailer's 50 feet away.

But it's like, fuck this.

I'm like, there is nothing in me that would want to be in the 1850s.

Nothing.

Nothing.

No.

I can't believe people made it through.

I can't either.

It's hard.

I can't either.

And those people were living in the lap of luxury

compared to people who lived 4,000 years before.

before.

Oh, my God.

You got a good point.

200 years earlier.

Yeah.

It's nuts.

I mean, it's like what we were talking about earlier.

Civilization is super recent.

I mean, it's not.

Obviously, there's ancient Egypt and all that stuff.

But, I mean,

what we're dealing with right now is super recent.

Yeah.

Relative safety, relative security,

relative, you know.

I mean, do you, do you, when you go hunt, you're Utah, backcountry, wherever you're going, you're going to be in the shit.

It's going to be beautiful and quiet.

And like, I

live for that.

Yeah, well, that's why Montana is a great trailer.

It's a great place to hunt, too.

And Montana is a truly wild place.

Yes.

I mean, outside of Bozeman.

Right.

Yeah.

30 minutes outside.

Yeah, 30 minutes outside.

You've got like a truly beautiful, incredible, unjust un

If you've never experienced the mountains, like the true mountains, especially when there's there's some snow on the ground and the wind's whistling around, it's like, it's majestic.

It's like the most extraordinary work of art that nature created.

Yeah.

There's something about like mountains.

It's just like

awe-inspiring.

It's like, wow.

Makes perspective sinks into you.

You're in the moment.

And it's weird that very few people live near them.

I know, right?

It's when you get there.

When you get there, you're like, oh my God, I want to see this every day.

It's like, then you're on a flight to New York in two days.

I lived outside of Boulder for a while.

Oh, beautiful.

And it was like that every day.

It's like you're just driving through these mountains.

You're like, this is incredible.

Like, this view that you have is like a vitamin.

It really restores your soul.

Yeah.

Look at this place.

And it's not a coincidence that people in mountain communities are chilled out.

Yeah, you're right.

It's not a coincidence.

They're surrounded by this overwhelming majesty of nature.

And it's humbling.

Yeah, it is.

It makes you a little chiller.

Totally.

Yeah.

And I think for me, too, it's so good for the brain for all those reasons.

But also, it's just like, if I'm sitting around feeling sorry for myself or whatever it is, bored, it's like, it's your fucking fault if you're bored out there.

Right.

There's a thousand hikes.

Go get into wildlife, go to the national park, go for a fucking walk, anything.

Fix your perspective.

Truly.

And it does.

It does.

It does.

After an intense roll or whatever it is, once I land in Bozeman, man, I get on the bike or whatever, go fly fish.

It's like,

it's a beautiful thing.

And there's less people there.

So it's like,

yeah.

You don't feel the buzz.

Yeah.

Relax.

Yeah.

Relax.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just bought a $35 fucking protein shake before I came here.

In Austin?

Yeah.

I was like.

What the fuck is it?

I look up.

Yeah, it's like, I don't know, probably like koala DNA that's going to get me hard for the next seven days or so.

Grass-fed tallow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Where'd you go?

How's it doing?

How do they charge 35 bucks for a smoothie?

That seems a lot of fun.

I keep adding shit.

You're adding proteins.

Yeah, creatine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I was like, what's happening?

Yeah, it's not Montana.

But even Austin, like compared to where I lived before, I lived in LA.

And living here is like, there's only 2 million people.

Yeah.

It's so much more.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like what they think is traffic is adorable.

Yeah.

It's cute little traffic.

It's true, man.

It's true.

LA is insane.

It's just a terrible way to live.

It really is.

Yeah.

It's a terrible way to live.

Yeah.

And I think I get how people used to want to live there because it was the center of the TV business and the comedy business, but it's not worth it, kids.

No.

No.

It's not good for me.

I mean,

nothing's being filmed there anymore.

It's rare.

It's just.

It's weird, right?

Yeah.

It is.

How did that happen?

I don't know.

How did they fuck that up?

I know.

How did you fuck up the one spot where everybody wanted to move to to be an actor?

You fucked up.

You did that spot?

Yeah.

And they have everything.

Mountains, beaches, fucking.

You can get to the mountains, to the shore in two hours.

You're up in Big Bear.

Yeah.

You're down in Santa Monica.

Two hours.

Yeah.

It's nuts.

Studios, everything's there.

Yeah.

And they fucked it up.

Yep.

Brutal.

What the fuck is happening?

I don't know.

I know.

I don't know.

I'd blame politics, but I think there's a lot of other stuff going on, too.

I just think the people running it,

it probably takes exceptional people to have real vision and learn how to keep stuff together.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I don't know either.

Not a big fan of L.A.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I lived here for 17 years.

Did you love it here?

I did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love the lake life.

It's nice.

It's fucking amazing.

It's a chilled city, too.

It's genuinely good people here.

Yeah.

There are normal people.

Yeah.

You know, in LA, everybody is like a failed actor, wanting to be an actor, trying to get on a reality show,

looking to be a TikTok influencer.

So

everybody's got something.

And they want something from you.

Always.

Always.

Yeah.

And every connection they make is like a networking thing.

Every new friend becomes someone is an asset.

An asset.

Yeah, because it's like very transactional.

Yeah.

Gross.

Yeah, it's gross.

Yeah.

Well, listen, brother, you're a very interesting guy, and you've got some awesome stories, and you're a really great actor.

And so I've been a fan for a long time.

Likewise.

This was really fun.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

My pleasure, brother.

Tell everybody one more time: Terminalist, Dark Wolf, it's available now on Amazon.

On Amazon, which is great.

And I know the Terminalist killed it for Amazon.

Yeah.

It was a huge challenge.

We're number one right now.

That's amazing.

Yeah, thanks.

That's awesome.

It's a great show.

It's a great show.

All right.

My pleasure.

Bye, everybody.