#2387 - Gregg Braden

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We just missed a fabulous conversation about your hair.

The best hair, we talked.

I would not wear headsets if I were.

Are we recording right now?

Yeah, we're going now.

So, did you ever know Wayne Dyer?

No, I didn't know Wayne Dyer.

Do we have Wayne Dyer on the podcast ever?

Like, way, way, way, way, way back in the day?

I was on a cruise with, we had the same publisher, Hay House, as our publisher, and we were on a cruise just off Australia.

Of course, the sun's out there, and Wayne came out, and he's got a very shiny head.

He said, Greg Braden, I said, yeah.

He said, you see this?

And I said, yeah.

He said, this is a solar panel for a sex machine.

Okay.

And

I couldn't match that, you know, so I said, I said, well, you see this?

I said, these are, every one of these, every one of these hairs is a highly advanced, finely tuned antenna to higher-dimensional state spaces of information.

And so that was our joke about hair and no hair.

Imagine if that's what made you enlightened, how much hair you had.

And when it started to fall out, you got dumber.

Like I said,

every decade of my life, they're saying if you have it this decade, you can keep it.

So when I hit my 70s, they said, that's interesting.

You got this, this, you can probably keep it.

Oh, yeah.

If you have minoxidol, like if you got really good at it today, and there's a bunch of different DHT inhibitors that are topical that they could use.

My friend Derek from Derek, more plates, more dates, it's a website.

He's got a bunch of like protocols on how to save your hair.

So people want to save their hair.

But we were talking about Art Bell when we came in here because there's a photograph of art on the wall that was one of the most important things for me to put up.

Like we talked about it and Jamie and I were like, oh, you got to get it.

We got to get a metal picture of Art Bell because that was the guy, man.

When I was driving home from the comedy store at like one o'clock in the morning and I was listening to AM radio coast to coast with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nigh,

it was my favorite.

This is like all, for me, was kind of pre-internet, too.

Like, you know, the internet existed, but it wasn't the thing that it is now.

There were no podcasts.

No, but you know, the crazy thing is the stuff that was on that program that was all fringe is what everybody's talking about every day.

Totally mainstream.

It's at lunch right now.

Area 51, Bob Lazar, totally mainstream.

You know, he was so kind to me.

He had me on this program before I had my first book.

I self-published my first two books and I was doing talks

all over up and down the West Coast up into Vancouver and he had heard somebody in his shop had been to one of those talks and he invited me on.

No book and then he had me on a number of times after that.

And so

I was very honored to be on there.

And, you know, we talked about everything, man.

That was the thing.

You could talk about anything, anything you wanted to talk about.

It was also like art was a show where you could get real information and you could also get complete horseshit.

And you had to be able to discern what is what, but art treated everyone with equal respect.

Like you could call him up, Art, I'm a werewolf.

He'd be like, interesting.

Tell me more.

It was never like, bitch, you're not a werewolf.

You're just mentally ill.

You need to get some Prozac or whatever they give you.

Well, you still got to be discerning today.

You know, I think I say it's...

Well, today you more so than ever because of AI and because of bots and

it's important to have an open mind but not a gaping mind.

And

there are a lot of...

Unfortunate use of terminology, but yes, I agree wholeheartedly.

You know, part of the reason for that, and you know this,

we have a global audience.

A lot of those people are very hurt, unresolved hurt.

They're right on the edge.

They're very fragile personalities.

Yeah, that's true.

And what they hear on the radio can be interpreted in a million different ways.

And it's,

you know, I think there's responsibility that comes with saying things.

If you're going to say it, make sure it's accurate.

Yeah.

And your intention.

Like, what are you trying to do?

Like, I'm never trying to hurt someone's feelings.

Right.

If someone's listening, I want you to have a better life.

I want your life to be better.

You know, this is an interesting thing about whether it's bots or whether it's, you know, an actual human being talking about stuff, the way you approach life and the way the people around you approach life is very contagious.

And if you're doing it in a very positive and a loving way, in a friendly way, in a communal way, that's contagious.

It's really good.

It's good for everybody.

But if you're bitter and shitty, it's bad for everybody.

What Art was, was like very friendly and

fascinated by all these things.

And he was a real pro.

You know what I mean?

It's just like, so when I did his show, it was like one of the highlights of my life.

And I got to do the internet version.

I never got to do the radio version.

So he was on the internet at the time at the time.

I don't think he was, maybe he was on some radio stations, but mostly I think it was an internet thing.

But I was like, yes, I'm on with Arpell.

Mine was all by phone.

It was all landlines.

Yeah, I was up by phone, too.

Yeah, I did it from my house on the internet.

I think I did it, you know, with a headset or something, but I did.

Well, he paved the way, and we're here today.

Well, he made interesting subjects.

You know, like I remember when they were talking about things like the face on Mars.

And you're like, what?

That sounds so kooky.

And then you see pictures and you go, hey man, what is that?

Why don't I hear about that in school?

Yeah, well, he had Richard Hoagland on night after night after night after night for weeks on end

when that came out.

And actually, that face on Mars had a lot to do with my career path, actually.

So what is your take on all this?

Because one of the things that happened with the face on Mars is the initial images were very grainy, but fascinating.

Because it did kind of look like a face, but maybe even more remarkable, because sometimes there's faces like in the side of a rock, it looks like a face.

More remarkable was the geometric pattern of the base of it.

And so

I kind of dismissed that when the second images came out.

So this is the original image.

This is the original image that freaked everybody out.

They were like, oh my God, there's a face on Mars.

And then they came up with these upgraded images, and I was like, Well, that's not a face, it's just weird shadows, and it's probably just a mountain.

But man, that's an odd shape.

Or that face has been doctored.

It could be true.

Yeah, but also, then I looked at it and was like,

That shape is interesting.

Like, it almost looks unnatural.

Then the new images from very close to Sidonia that show a very clear square.

This one's nuts.

Because this one is somewhere in the neighborhood of between three, it's plus 300 meters.

Like they don't know how much longer it is than 300 meters, but the minimum size of this thing is 300 meters across.

And it's a full-on square.

Right angle, right angle, right.

It's like, what the hell is that?

Hold that picture up, Jamie.

As a geologist, I was fascinated when Hoagland first started talking about what was happening here.

What's up, Jamie?

Which one?

Oh, that one.

Yeah, yeah.

The one that we bring up all the time.

Oh, yeah, it's like, which one, though?

Oh, it don't matter.

Some of them are click on any of them.

Some of them are doctored, though.

Yeah, the non-doctored one, the one next to it, like they're right there.

Look at that.

That's absolutely crazy.

So I don't know if you, I'm very familiar with this image.

I don't know if you can see with your mind's eye.

You're looking at the lower left.

That's a 90-degree angle.

If you can see the rest of the 90-degree angle up at the top and over at the side, if you can trace out, that is one massive right there.

Now you can see it.

Yeah, the computer has cleaned it up.

Nature does not work in 90-degree angles.

You're not going to get wind erosion.

Wind is called aeolian erosion.

Fluvial erosion is water erosion.

You're not going to get 90-degree angles from wind or water.

So one of the tenets in archaeology, when you see 90-degree angles, there's an intentionality underlying that structure.

If it were a one-off, you could say maybe it's a fluke, and it's not.

And this is on Mars.

Jamie, I don't know if you can do this.

Through Freedom of Information, NASA had to release all of the lunar images up through the Clementine mission.

And they didn't want to do that.

And when they did release them, they ended up pixeling out a whole bunch of stuff, which made it look even more obvious than it was.

They're just fucking with us at this point.

So you got to say, what is it on the lunar surface that we paid for with our tax dollars that we're not supposed to be seeing?

And

these were tower structures.

Can you see the Clementine?

Yeah, I don't know.

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Are there any undoctored, unblurred versions of it that some of them

are in the office?

I haven't seen them in the public domain.

But you've seen them privately?

No.

What I'm saying is through Freedom Information, what they were.

Have you ever seen the undo?

No, what they were forced to release.

Why in the world would they be pixelating the images that are on there that actually make them look even more obvious than they are?

So what we're seeing, what Hoagland was talking about, what you're seeing on Mars is not happening in the vacuum.

It's happening, we're seeing the same thing on the lunar surface to varying degrees.

On Mars, there were three-sided, four-sided, five-sided pyramids.

With the one in the upper right-hand corner.

That's odd.

I think it's the same thing.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's very odd.

So here's the kicker.

We're sending the Viking probes, Viking 1, Viking 2 in the 70s, went to Mars.

19,000 images were captured from the orbiting part of the mission.

The The other craft landed on the surface, and I can just imagine being on the surface seeing this.

It's like this thing is like a spider comes down a cloud of dust, and this little tube pops up and some sticky dental floss stuff shoots out, and then they reel it in to collect dirt and microbes, and they reel it into broth.

Because they're looking for evidence of life on Mars, and it's happening next to massive monuments and geometric structures that are are now dated about 50,000 years BP before present.

So they're looking for microbes and signs of life next to the most massive signs of life

that you could imagine.

You said they're dated to 50,000 BC, these structures?

BP.

BP before present.

Before present, yeah.

So how do they know that?

Those were

when the Sidonia mission, that's the Sidonia scientists, are estimating

50,000 years, and the same with the lunar.

I'm hesitating.

How do they estimate that?

If they're using probes from that farmer, they're using probes, and I think geologically they're using it's relative dating.

You know, they're looking at strata and things like that.

And from the lunar sites, you know, they brought back samples.

And

yeah, I'm hesitating because I don't know how deep you want to go with all this, but the.

As deep as you want.

Well, the samples that came back from the lunar surface had traces of

metals that do not occur

naturally in nature.

They are the product of

advanced machinery.

What metals are these?

These were metals that came back when they brought back from the Apollo mission.

And I think they brought back,

oh, I don't even remember the names.

That's one, Jamie, can look up.

What the metals were that came back, and they don't know where those metals were.

So is this metals from Sidonia or is this metals from the moon?

This is from the lunar sites in the crater.

So the structures on the moon, how old are they?

They think they're the same age as the structures on the 50,000.

They're estimating 50,000 BP.

You know, there's a race for the moon right now.

And I'm fascinated by this.

You know,

there was a time only two nations on Earth had the money and the technology

to go to the moon.

It was a former Soviet Union and former United States, because neither one's the same country anymore.

And both those countries have been so broke, they haven't been able to do it.

India and China are now sending the probes to the moon.

We were going to the moon during the Cold War, and it was a crazy time.

It was actually a very civilized war.

I mean, the governments were at war, but the scientists were still cooperating.

And there was an agreement that we would not share publicly what was found on the lunar surface.

And Russia did the same thing.

But China was never part of that agreement.

So China has said when they land, they're going to televise televise live what they find on the lunar surface to the people of the Earth.

My sense, Joe, and this will lead into a whole conversation we're going to have here, I think they'll find

the archaeological structures that we know are there that we've seen in the photographs, the inscriptions

on those structures, we're going to be able to read because there's a a thinking that those structures are from ETs from another time,

but the evidence suggests they're from us, from a time in our past, a cycle of civilization where we did great and beautiful things by working together until we destroyed one another through war, and that we're repeating that cycle again.

So when they say...

Isn't that like drawing a lot of conclusions?

Isn't there other possibilities for what happened in that?

Well, here's, this is where I'm going with this.

When they see what's on those temple walls, they're going to see inscriptions in languages that we already recognize.

And that will be the

smoking gun, like CUNY.

Why do you think that?

Because

this is what the researchers who are working on these projects right now, and they're combining this with so many of what the ancient texts have always told us.

And this is where it gets into a really

kind of a sticky conversation because it depends on how people interpret these things.

I'm excited for this reason.

This is obviously no ordinary time in the history of our world and they're pushing for war.

We're on the verge of global war.

What would it mean if we found on the surface, on the lunar surface, evidence of us, humans from another time,

leaving a message in our own languages, cuneiform, Sanskrit,

those kinds of things.

It could be one of the most unifying factors right when we're on the precipice of war.

I completely agree, but we have to make a lot of leaps in order for that to be real.

Like, we haven't seen any writing, so why would they assume that there's a bunch of different kinds of writing in different languages?

Actually, I think they have seen.

Who's that?

Well, when our space program

I think you've had guests on, have talked about this in the past, I think.

When our space program was active,

there were broadcasts from the lunar surface that were cut off, and astronauts had seen things that they were not allowed to see and not allowed to share.

That's what I heard.

It sounds fun.

It sounds really fun.

I want to believe that.

Well, and some of them are leaving this world now, and on their

you know, on their deathbed, they can't believe that this hasn't been made public already.

So

there have been recordings and videos and things, and I think they're authentic.

Right, but this does it, like, we haven't got boots on the ground at Sidonia, right?

So

Sidonia is Mars.

Well, exactly.

So how are they seeing these inscriptions?

Are you saying these inscriptions are on the moon?

Yeah, lunar surface.

I'm sorry.

I was confused.

I was confused.

So these astronauts are saying that on the surface of the moon they saw writing.

They've seen structures.

Structures.

Massive structures.

But what about the writing there?

There were reports that they had seen the writing, but we can't verify those.

We can't verify those.

Okay.

So this is just

pothead talk.

Well, you know, yes and no.

Kind of, a little bit, a little bit, because if there's no evidence at all that is not even an interview with a guy who talks about when I was on the moon, I saw writing.

Well, then this is where you start going into the ancient texts

and the traditions that are

relating

our relationship to intelligences from beyond this world.

Yes, there's a lot of that.

And there's a lot of that.

There's a lot of that in various religions, too.

It's very fascinating.

Well, this is what I think is important.

It is in religions, but I think you can break out.

There are historical texts and there's religious texts.

So if you're reading the Bible, there's religion and history in the Bible.

If you're looking at Sumerian,

Akkadian,

Babylonian text from the Mesopotamian era, they're telling similar stories, and you've had guests on talking about this, where the stories are similar, but the religion is not part of that.

And so I think what we're doing, we're kind of beating around the bush to a deeper conversation here, and that's why I've hesitated a couple of times, because I just don't want us to,

you know, to...

to get so far down one side that...

Oh, don't worry about that.

That's what this show is all about.

Okay.

we should call the show rabbit holes

because people are always in the middle of talking about one thing and they pivot it doesn't matter well I think this is all tied into disclosure and what's happening the reluctance to to have the full disclosure right we've talked about that multiple times yeah you I'm sure you were you in that documentary the age of disclosure

no no

You've been in a lot of documentaries.

I have been in a lot.

I've been in a lot, and a lot of what I said was left on the cutting room floor.

Always.

And there's a couple reasons for that.

One thing I learned, Joe, and maybe you've learned this as well.

If you're going to be in the documentary, ask if you are on the front end of the filming or the back end of the filming.

What does that mean?

Here's the reason.

Are you one of the early interviews or are you one of the later interviews?

Okay.

And here's the reason.

They'll develop an arc in a storyline.

And if you're early on, they're going to ask you questions to support that arc and that storyline.

Five interviews down, somebody's going to come on and they're going to introduce something and the producer is going to say, oh, there's a new arc and a new storyline.

And now everything that you interviewed for may not be relevant in that conversation anymore.

Well,

I don't think you can control that.

You can ask.

You just ask.

You say, where am I in the shooting process?

And if you're the first one, say, you know, maybe come back and interview me.

Yeah.

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A little bit later on.

Is it your belief that there was a civilization on Mars that were us and that we migrated to Earth and then eventually populated Earth?

Is that what you're thinking?

Or that we coexisted in both places?

I think we did.

And

it sounds so crazy to say.

And yeah, yeah, yeah, it does.

It does.

Well, you probably travel in different circles.

But I mean, to the rational people, most people hear that and they go, what?

There were people on Mars.

But as time goes on and more and more discoveries, we find out just about the structures that are on Earth and how old they might be and the actual age of Homo sapiens, like how old we might actually be.

They found that skull in China the other day.

Have you seen this?

It's a million-year-old Homo sapiens skull.

But apparently there's some debate about it.

They're going back and forth.

But at the very least, it's in the conversation of human beings possibly have existed, at least in this form for a million years, which is kind of nuts.

Yeah, I didn't find that the other day.

Oh,

yeah, they found it in 1990.

What?

Yeah.

What I found the other day?

No.

I read it on the beach.

I know.

I was going through the story yesterday.

What happened was some team reconstructed parts of that skull.

with new methods that are now available.

And they suggest that it could say that it was...

I think it was actually one of those we've talked about, the big head, the longie.

Oh, right.

That's one of those.

That one's fascinating because that's a larger human being.

Was it Homo sapiens?

Yeah, well, they're

Denisovans just to say that.

So, this is the thing.

What is it called?

I get confused.

I remember Longi was the thing that they were saying this.

Juliens.

Okay, that is their one.

That's it.

That's the big-headed one.

I'm skeptical about those because they find one fragment and there's a lot of interpretation that's going on there.

The consensus has been for a long time that we appeared.

I'm just going to preface this by saying I'm a degree geologist.

I believe in evolution.

Evolution is a fact.

I've seen it in the fossil record for plants, animals, insects.

Darwin's theory of evolution breaks down when it comes to humans, and it breaks down for this reason.

We now can do what used to sound like science fiction.

If you ever saw the first Jurassic Park, where they pulled the DNA out of the fossilized remains of ancient forms of life, in the movie they brought them back to life.

To the best of my knowledge, we haven't done that.

What we have done is we can extract that DNA from the bone marrow.

of fossilized remains of beings that we used to believe were our ancestors.

And what's happening is, and this is a mind blower, we know that we didn't descend from Neanderthal.

We shared the earth with them, certainly, and some people have some Neanderthal DNA because of that, but we did not descend from them.

And we didn't descend from many of the other forms that you see on those traditional trees.

You know, you've got modern humans here and

all these lines connecting.

But if you look close at the lines, most of them are broken lines, Joe, because there's no solid evidence.

It's called inferred or speculative relationships.

I've got a picture of it here if we want to see that.

But what they're showing is that

we showed up about 200,000 years ago.

Now there's a little evidence that may have been back as far as 300,000.

But the kicker is that we can now look at the DNA and reverse engineer it and say, what did it take to get where we are?

And what scientists are now calling the smoking gun, and there's still a lot of controversy around this, is human chromosome number two.

Human chromosome number two is the second largest chromosome in every cell of the body.

It's got about 1,200 or so genes in that chromosome.

And just one of them, gene TBR number one, is responsible for most of the brain that we have for our neocortex.

So our humanness, our empathy, sympathy, compassion, love, our cognitive abilities, the mirror neurons, all these kinds of things are because that one gene.

Well, where this gets really interesting is where did chromosome 2 come from?

And scientists have the answer, but they don't like the answer because chromosome 2 is the product of a fusion.

Proceedings from National Academy of Sciences, the volume Genetics, says this very clearly.

We conclude that the origin of human chromosome 2 is the product of an ancestral fusion.

of telomere-to-telomere fusion of two pre-existing chromosomes.

That does not happen in nature.

It can't happen in nature.

So here's what they're saying.

You got

two fully formed, fully functional chromosomes, and on the end are the telomeres that protect those chromosomes when the cells divide.

And that's why they're on the end.

They take the hit.

It's a trauma in a cell when those when those chromosomes are pulled apart and some of the DNA doesn't make it.

So nature puts telomeres on the end to take the hit so the good DNA remains intact.

And that's why it's on the ends.

Human chromosome 2, those telomeres are right in the middle of the chromosome where they shouldn't be because those chromosomes were fused together

about 200,000 years ago when we

appeared.

And if that was the only one, you could say, well, maybe it's a fluke.

Chromosome number seven.

I'm a musician when I'm not doing what I'm doing now, long before I was a researcher.

And one of the things I always used to wonder about, you know, we share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees, but you don't hear chimpanzees sing.

You know, you're never going to hear a chimpanzee sing Leds Upland Stairway to Heaven.

And you ask, well, why not?

I mean, 98% of the DNA we share with them, but it's because of chromosome 7.

And for about 175 million years, this chromosome was stable and all primates, all of them, orangutan, gorilla, chimps, all the primates, all of a sudden, there was this little, hmm, this little switch of a couple of genes that connected our tongue and our brain and our jaw, and we can sing, and we can have complex speech like no other form of life.

It happened 200,000 years ago.

Now, what are the odds of that happening when chromosome 2

is fusing?

So

I've worked with scientists my whole life, both in academia and in the corporations.

I was a problem solver for Fortune 500 companies through the late 70s, 80s, and 90s.

And one of the things I've seen about scientists, it's fascinating,

is

that there is one way of thinking that says we take all the evidence and we force it.

into a pre-existing model, like all the new discoveries, trying to force that into Darwin's theory of evolution, or

we allow the new evidence to lead to the story that it tells.

And this is where science is stuck right now, because the old theory, Darwin's theory of evolution is in trouble, and it's the DNA is the reason it's in trouble.

It's no longer superficial or fossil evidence.

I mean, the DNA is telling the story.

And the new story...

suggests at the very least

a scientist has to say there's been some kind of intelligent intervention.

And this is is where science gets stuck, because science says it's not equipped to talk about any kind of an intelligent intervention.

But that ties in to everything that's happening.

Now, you know, if we're going to talk about ancient civilizations, or if we're going to talk about we've been here before,

are we going to talk about

what it is that is the disclosure?

All of those kinds of things.

So science is kind of at the crossroads right now.

There is something called the standard model,

and that applies to evolution, and what the evidence suggests is that we are the product of an intelligent and an intentional act.

Who or what that is,

that's where

it can get sticky.

The universe.

We've had physicists on here and really good physicists, and some of them are not aware of some of the new information that's come out now.

But when I was in school back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, I was taught that the universe is dead, inert,

just cold,

and we happen to be lucky biology.

You know, that's kind of what they used to teach.

Now,

physicists are suggesting the universe is alive, it is intelligent, and it's conscious.

And one of the reasons for this, and you can go to the NASA website and you can look at some of these images, the James Webb Space Telescope, they're showing galaxies that are in proximity of something that is dangerous to them, like an exploding, you know, whatever.

And what they'll do is they'll create jets from the center,

both directions, these jets that actually move them out of the way.

And I talk about, I've got a new book, and I talk about that in the new book.

So it's documented in the book.

They actually move them to a safer place.

And you say, well, maybe that's a fluke.

It's a one-off.

And now that they have found that, they found it happens time and time again.

Aaron Powell, Jr.: So space itself is conscious.

In some form.

Conscious, okay, conscious and intelligent.

Those are two very different things.

But that is a very different story.

If our universe is alive and intelligent and conscious, and we're the product of an intentional act,

We solve our problems, Joe, and we build our world based on the way we've been taught to think about ourselves.

We use our resources.

We apply our technology based on the way we've been taught to think about ourselves.

And we have been taught that we are a flawed form of life,

that

we are powerless victims of the world around us.

And because of that, this is going to lead into this whole conversation,

because of that we need a savior.

And that savior is being touted as technology.

So now we are living at this time where we're being encouraged, indoctrinated, coerced, mandated sometimes, to embrace the technology outside of our bodies because we have been conditioned to believe that we are a broken, flawed form of life.

And you're seeing this play out in the AI conversation.

You're seeing it play out in

what's called the transhuman movement, the intentional movement.

to replace our humanness with computer chips in the brain, chemicals in the blood, RFID chips under the skin.

And it's all playing out right now, Joe.

I mean, this can't go on for

another 20 years because it's moving too fast.

This is the generation, right?

And I'm very passionate about this.

The experts are saying unless we change our trajectory right now, we very probably are the last generation of pure humans.

that the world will ever know.

That by 2032, when you go to the supermarket or go to the airport, the people you talk to will be some hybrid, maybe some more and some less, but will have some kind of technology embedded into their bodies.

I was on a panel recently and I was with a group of scientists and they said, well, what's wrong with that?

You know, isn't that the next step?

Isn't that our natural step

in our evolution?

And I said, no.

It is not.

And here's the reason.

When we replace our natural biology with synthetics, our natural abilities begin to atrophy.

Cells will, let me just give a perfect example.

We used to be taught

when I was in school, I was taught that we're born into this world with a fixed number of brain cells.

And every beer I drank in college.

Yeah, I remember that.

All right, I'm going to lose some brain cells.

Well, what I'm going to say next is not a reason to drink the beer.

But what they found, there's a part of the human brain, it's the hippocampus, that is producing new brain cells until the last breath we take on this earth.

There's a catch, and the catch tells the story.

If we do not use those new brain cells in a meaningful way within about seven to ten days, the body says, oh,

You didn't use it, so you must not need it, and those cells will atrophy and die.

That makes sense because I always feel dumber when I come back from vacation.

Are you drinking beer on vacation?

Not this time, but sometimes, yeah.

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But that principle, so it's called use it or lose it.

We've all heard that.

That principle applies to every system in the human body.

It applies to our cognitive abilities, to our reproductive system.

And when we replace our natural biology with these synthetics, this is exactly what's happening.

And we've been doing this long enough.

Virtual reality goggles, for example, they've been around long enough.

Psychology magazine has published article after article.

If you take young kids with malleable brains, Parents are busy, they want to entertain them.

So they sit them on the floor, put a virtual VR goggle on three or four hours a day and say, hey, so here's the kid.

They're just sitting there like this.

And they're seeing images that they would never see in their backyard.

And colors and sounds and situations.

But here's the thing.

It's all being done for them.

They are not using their imagination like you and I did when we were kids.

They're not using their imagination.

So now what's happening is there are parts of their brain that are atrophying.

So they are diminished cognitive abilities, diminished language skills, diminished communication skills.

But listen to this.

The visual cortex, which is what they're using to watch everything, is enlarged in the brain.

The visual cortex gets bigger because that's what

they're doing.

Now,

because of epigenetics, all of that can be reversed.

When the kids are put into a healthy environment, go outside and play with your friends.

You know, they're young enough that they can reverse that.

Right.

I spend a lot of time with shamans in

the Yucatan and in Peru, Costa Rica, places like that.

And they've found the same thing.

The shamans that maybe do

5,000 ayahuasca journeys because they're leading groups.

And every time the group does it, they do it.

So they're doing that.

Their visual cortexes are enlarged, but their other abilities are diminished.

Now, if you're a shaman in the jungle, maybe that's no big deal.

But if you're a software engineer in Silicon Valley writing code for nuclear triggers and on the weekends, you know, this is what you're doing every weekend chronically, it could be a problem.

Have they done studies on that where they've shown declined ability or cognitive function due to psychedelic use?

Yes.

They have.

Any specific psychedelics?

Ayahuasca was one, and I hesitate because there are

different kinds of ayahuasca.

It's called a brew, different kinds brew.

So is the idea that people are overdoing it, they're doing it too much?

Well, I want to be clear about this.

One-off,

I don't think there's any problem if it's done therapeutically.

I'll give you a perfect example.

I was speaking at a facility.

I was invited as a guest speaker to go with a cohort through seven-day programs.

And part of that program was ayahuasca.

Part of it was breath work.

Part of it was body work.

Part of it was natural raw food, you know, the whole gamut.

And there was a woman and her husband who came,

and they were both healthy.

They couldn't have a baby.

They couldn't conceive.

Her eggs were good.

His sperm was good.

The doctors couldn't figure it out.

And they said, there's something else going on.

So they came to this program, and the woman, and

one time,

She had a plant medicine experience, and in that experience, a being came to her and reached in and pulled her heart out.

And it was all black and had stuff all over it.

And the being cleaned it off and put it back in, did the same thing with the womb.

And

she had been traumatized as a child, been abused, had not resolved that, apparently, you know, on a deep emotional level.

And so there was a part of her that felt that she wasn't worthy to conceive.

And it was being, it was shown up that way.

And in her plant medicine experience, this is what worked for her.

And they conceived shortly after, I think they conceived that week while they were there when they did the numbers backwards.

Now, as a scientist, can you prove that?

Or you can say there's a high correlation between the time that an individual has an experience like that and

when they successfully conceive.

But that's a one-off.

And I don't, therapeutically, I don't think there's anything...

It's not going to be harmful, one-off.

It's the chronic use for recreation.

That's where we get into that.

Well, it seems to me, the people that I have encountered that use it maybe a little bit too much, they seem to have a loss of a perception of how other people see them.

They get slippery, like the world gets slippery.

They act weird, and they don't know they're acting weird.

And

it seems like there's like

a piece of the interface has been damaged, if that makes any sense.

It makes total sense.

And I knew no matter where we go in this conversation, to start with, it's going to bring us back

to the same place.

And I can show you exactly where that slipperiness comes from in just a moment

when we get there.

Because,

and I'll say it right now, there's a part of us that doesn't live inside the body, but that the body

tunes to,

and I'm using that from an engineering perspective, that the body tunes to through the antenna of neurons and DNA.

And this is where it gets

a fascinating conversation.

Scientists now, a segment of scientists, are beginning to look at the human body as more than soft, sticky, wet, gooey, mushy cells and skin.

Joe, they're actually looking at us from an IT perspective.

Now this sounds crazy, but they're looking at the human body

from the perspective of information passing through and communicating with the world around us.

That we are such an advanced form of life.

We're not primitive computer chips and wires and chemicals.

We're more than that.

We're neurons and cell membranes and ion potentials moving across cell walls.

And

the ability for us to self-regulate what is now being called soft, we are a soft technology.

The ability to do that is the core of all the ancient and cherished spiritual traditions in the mystery schools.

How we go about regulating this technology.

So now let me just break that down a little bit.

I mentioned during the Cold War, it was a very civilized war.

I remember it was 1980s.

I was working, I was civilian

working on contract for the DOD and with a civilian security, I had a yellow badge.

It wasn't a high, it's secret clearance.

It wasn't like top secret or anything.

But we have access to research papers that were coming in from the Soviet Union.

Even though we were at war on one level, the scientists were still cooperating.

And the Soviets were the first that sent these diagrams of a human cell.

as a circuit diagram.

Now this is a mind-blower.

I mean, it wasn't a metaphor.

Literally, every human cell is a gated circuit.

It's got an input and an output.

It has transistors, the equivalent of transistors and resistors and capacitors.

Every cell produces about 0.07 volts of electrical potential.

And you say, well, that's not very much.

And I agree.

And then you do the math.

We've got about 50 trillion cells in the body.

50 trillion cells times 0.07 volts is about 3.5 trillion volts of electrical potential in the human body.

Every cell is the equivalent

of a transistor.

Every cell is the equivalent of a resistor, of a capacitor.

We're photon emitters, and there's a whole science now about reading the photon emissions from humans.

And we're photon receivers, and we store information just like a computer chip.

And this goes on.

Blockchain technology.

Our DNA stores information, and the way that it's described is that it is secure, it's transparent, and it's immutable and it's distributed.

And those are exactly the terms being used for blockchain technology today because blockchain technology in the world actually mirrors the technology of human DNA.

We have a record and you and I, every human body, we have a record of every successful genetic transaction

for our species.

It is transparent, it's immutable.

If you know how to look for it, it's not hidden.

It's secure and it's distributed across all the nodes that we call humans.

This goes on and on and on.

The point is that we are the only form of life that can consciously self-regulate all of this technology and apply it to our healing, to our intuition, to our resilience.

to change, to any of these kinds of things.

And the ability to do that is the secret that has been hidden within the mystery schools, within the religions,

and it is

the reason for everything you're seeing happening in the world today.

There's a concerted effort, Joe, to deny us our ability to express our humanness.

And part of that effort is replacing our humanness with technology.

So that's a big statement, and I know we'll.

But that's fairly recent, right?

The effort to stop people from expressing their

humanness.

That's not recent.

Well, so

now we're going to get to the crux of it.

Okay.

So here's,

and I wasn't sure how we'd get into this.

I lost my mom to COVID

just a couple of years ago.

And right before she died, she looked at me and she said, Greg, the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

And I always got the going to hell part.

I never knew exactly what the handbasket was.

I never understood that phrase.

What is that phrase?

I don't know, but I knew what she meant.

And what she meant was that the world looks scary to her, Joe, and it does a lot of people.

It looked like things were happening for no reason, for no apparent, there was no apparent structure.

It looked like things were just popping off here and there, out of control, looked crazy.

And she said, you know, this isn't my world anymore.

Well, we we are in the middle of a process.

The process has a beginning, it has an end, we're in it.

The only way out of it is to go through it and that's why I'm excited to have this conversation with you.

There are

two parallel themes that are playing out in our world right now

and we can explore both of them.

One, there is a concerted effort for the first time

in the history of our world to remake the stated intent to remake our world and to remake our bodies.

Now we've never had the technology to do that, but we do now.

So the intent to remake the world and remake our bodies, that's one conversation.

The other conversation, the best science of the modern world, is showing us that we're not what we've been told.

We're so much more than we've been led to believe.

And we're about to give our humanness away to the technology before we even know what it means to be human if we remake our bodies.

So this is, and this is in this generation.

This cannot drag on for, you know, five years, ten years, because all the tech is being pushed on us so quickly.

I'm a systems thinker.

And rather than get into the weeds of the Democrats and the Republicans and liberals and conservatives, which is all important, and we can have that conversation.

But there's something much, much bigger that's playing out here.

And it literally, we're in a battle for our humanness.

And if we don't claim our humanness, there are powers and forces that will stop at nothing to deny us our humanness.

One of the reasons they're denying it is what we just said, because it's through our humanness that we have these extraordinary potentials that empower us as sovereign, critically thinking, self-regulating human beings.

And it's very difficult to play out the agendas that are proposed for the world upon populations that are sovereign, critically thoughtful.

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well, the problem seems to be power and control.

That's the problem.

And the only way to have power and control over people is to limit their ability to express themselves and then keep them at each other's throats.

And

those are two things that are happening all the time with social media.

The people that manage social media are consistently trying to limit the reach of people that have voices or narratives that don't approve, that they don't approve of.

And

ultimately, what you're seeing in other countries is moving to digital IDs.

This is just implemented in Europe and in the UK.

You're seeing it in a lot of places where you're going to have to need that to work and vote and travel.

And it'll be even more of a constriction on your ability to express yourself, particularly when you think about the UK, which has had more than 12,000 arrests for very mild social media posts.

Isn't that crazy?

I mean,

I can't believe it.

I've been watching this stuff play out.

Fascinating.

and the fact that our mainstream media is relatively silent on this is insane.

You're seeing a complete, total attack on one of the most fundamental principles of the Western world, which is your ability to express yourself.

And your ability to call out that you think that the policies that are being implemented in your country are destructive.

People have always been able to do that.

These people are not calling for violence.

They're being arrested for wild things.

People are being arrested for liking posts.

Some people were investigated for viewing posts.

12,000 people arrested by the police in the UK, the same place that just implemented digital ID.

I mean, this is an Orwell nightmare coming to life right in front of our face, and no one's flinching.

No one in America is freaking out about what's happening in the UK at all.

I mean, you get people online that are kind of freaked out by it, but they're way more freaked out by nonsensical things like whether or not what Jimmy Kimmel said in his monologue was offensive.

They'll go to the ends of the earth to fight that.

Well, they're programmed.

That's the programming.

Well, it's easy.

That's a simple thing, and it doesn't freak you out.

Like, if you could get Jimmy Kimmel canceled, fuck him.

If you could do that, like, you have some power.

You have power.

But what you really don't.

If you look at what's going on in the UK,

what they're learning over there is that they are in a tyrannical government.

And it's slowly but surely, it's got its back, it's got the hooks in, and it's putting the rear naked choke in.

It's got them locked up.

They've got to do something about it.

Why do you think that's happening?

Why?

Because of what we talked about.

Power.

Power and control and resources.

And a very limited amount of people are controlling a huge amount of people.

A limited amount of people with fantastic access to resources.

And the ability for the first time in human history where you have individuals that are in charge of companies that are that they can shift the entire narrative of the world.

So they're doing it through these tech companies for the first time ever, totally unanticipated, 20 years ago didn't exist.

So I'm saying for the first time, the tech allows for the remaking of our humanness.

Well, it allows for new methods of control and resource extraction.

And we found out that data itself is a fantastic resource and worth billions and billions of dollars.

So, some of the richest companies that have ever existed, they're data companies now.

That's kind of nuts, and that's like a, we miss that.

But this is all the same thing that happens with kings and with emperors.

It's control.

You've got to limit the people's ability to rebel, limit their ability to gather resources, keep them at each other's throats ideologically, keep them fighting over the dumbest shit possible, including the color of their skin.

Fight over everything,

what gods you believe in, what foods you eat, what fucking computer you use.

Keep them fighting over everything, and then get social media bots to continue that fight going all day long.

Meanwhile, closer and closer and closer to total control of the population.

Or they're even openly stating it.

Hillary Clinton said in an interview, if we lose, if we can't control social media, we lose control.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, you're not supposed to have control over other human beings.

Yeah, you're going to lose the thing you're not supposed to have.

An elected official is supposed to be a representative for the people.

You're supposed to be a person who's a public servant where you go out and you do this incredibly moral and ethical and beautiful thing where you sacrifice your time for the betterment of your community and your society instead of just a means of extracting fantastic wealth that is totally unprecedented and that shouldn't exist in the first place.

You shouldn't be able to take that fucking job and then immediately go and start working for some Fortune 500 company making billions of dollars.

Like that's crazy if you're a government employee

involved in any regulatory fashion and then you go and work for the very industry you were regulating.

Or if you're a person who runs for office and you get in office and then all of a sudden you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars when your salary is $170,000 a year.

It's real obvious what's going on.

It's just wealth extraction.

And the way to do that is with control.

You have to have control over people and you have to be able to censor them.

You're going to call that shit out.

Everything you, yes, and everything you're talking about is part of a bigger picture.

So, how deep you want to go?

All the way to the bottom.

So, but do you think the bigger picture is natural?

Like, these are natural patterns that human beings follow when they get power and control over people.

Because that does seem to be the case.

It's just on a much grander scale now.

I think what you're talking about, power and control, lust and greed, there are individuals that have a propensity for those things that are going to fall into those roles very easily.

They're pawns.

They don't even know that they are supporting something much darker.

And what do you think is the source of this much darker thing?

Okay, so this will open the door to answering Sidonia.

Okay.

And everything else that we've done.

So

we're not totally beating around the bush.

We're going to bring this all together.

I wasn't sure how deep you want to go with this, Joe.

And what I'll say is, I'm going to acknowledge things we're talking about for a lot of people is a very different way of thinking.

And it certainly is different from what I was conditioned.

I was born and raised in northern Missouri, a rural community.

My first degree is in geology and computer science.

This is a very different way of thinking, and it's where the evidence is leading us.

What

are our most ancient and cherished texts, whether you're talking about religion or not religion,

they say that we are born into an ancient struggle that began long before we ever got here.

And for lack of a better term, and this is where

words are powerful and they carry a lot of baggage.

It's a struggle between good and evil.

We're born into the struggle between good and evil.

It's not a religious struggle.

When we talk about evil,

I think it's important to quantify what that evil is.

And to do that, we have to talk about who we are.

There's something inside of us, Joe, and this is where science is stuck.

This is where science and spirituality come together in a beautiful way.

And this is where language may fail me.

So I'm going to do my best.

There is something inside of us that is so rare.

and so precious and so ancient and sacred and powerful and beautiful that there are forces that have in history and are currently working to deny us access to this force.

The force is the reason for the ancient texts, the spiritual traditions, and there's two ways that we can have this conversation.

You can say

We can do it from a biblical perspective and talk about angels and demons.

We could do it from a high-tech perspective and talk about an advanced civilization from another world in another time.

And you're talking about the same thing, exactly the same conversation.

As to our origin,

there was an intentional intervention that created us.

Biblical traditions are giving us one perspective.

The Mesopotamian texts are telling us that we are the product of the blood of a higher form of life.

And now the archaeological sites are revealing that those, what's reported in those Sumerian texts, actually existed.

I was a member back in the 90s.

What specifically did they report in those Sumerian texts?

Well, archaeologically?

Well, let me say,

in the 90s, I was a member of an organization called BAR, Biblical Archaeology Review.

And the idea is that

you follow

the instructions in the text, and you go someplace, and you dig, and there is what the text is talking about from 3,000 years ago.

So they use that to try to validate the events, not the religiosity, but the events.

In the Mesopotamian texts, when we talk about the kings list, you've had guests on that talked about the king's list

in Sumeria that talks, it literally says when when the kingship descended from the heavens to the earth, and then it gives the list of the kings, and then there was another flood, and they evacuated, and they came back, and then they created humans.

And it actually lines up date-wise with the 200,000, 250,000 years of when we were created, but there's no religion involved.

So two different languages.

Are we talking about an advanced civilization and our relationship to them a long time ago?

Are we talking about angels and demons from a long time ago?

Are we talking about

beings with

wings in the religious tradition?

or when you look at the Sumerian traditions, the kings all had wings as well.

But they're telling the same story.

And what the story is, is that

we're the product of an intentional act, and we were imbued with a force that was greater even than those who created us.

And there has been an effort from that time to deny us that force.

Well, how do you know that our force is greater than those that created us?

I don't know this.

Where are you getting that from?

That is from, if you're familiar with the Gnostic texts.

In the Gnostic texts,

the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in 1946-47, the oldest unedited records of the Old Testament, pushed the date back a thousand years.

In 45 and 46,

the oldest records of the New Testament and the texts that were excluded were discovered in the little village along the Nile in Egypt called Nag Hammadi.

Can I just just tell you, it's a crazy story.

There's not much firewood along the Nile in Egypt, and there was

a woman

who needed kindling to feed her family, to build the fires, to feed her family, and heat their home.

And

she told her son, go find some kindling, and he was very resourceful.

There's no trees, so he found an old tomb.

And in the tomb were clay vases, and he opened those vases, and there were documents that were very dry and brittle and made great kindling.

Oh, no.

And we don't know how many were lost before the authorities were noted, but right now there are 13 bound books.

They cooked a bunch of them?

They burned, they used them for fuel.

Oh, my God.

But here's what's left.

What's left, there were 13 bound books representing over 50 texts.

They were the oldest records of the New Testament,

and they were the records records that were excluded by the Catholic Church.

Are there any images of these books?

Yeah.

Jamie, can you find those?

Well, I've got them on my.

I brought this for you.

All right.

Yeah.

So there's the 13

bound texts.

So among these were things like the Gospel of Thomas, which is considered the second most heretical book.

in the Nag Hammadi Library.

There's the Gospel of John, also called the Secret Book of John, also called the Apocryphon of John, which is considered the first most heretical book.

There are books from Gnostic women.

Thunder Perfect Mind is a book by a Gnostic woman that's in there.

The Gospel of James is in there.

So these,

and I'll be very clear, if you had Wes Hough here, I know you've had before, and I think he's a brilliant scholar, he would say that these are not accepted

because of, they're not accepted by the church because of dating and because of you know there's a lot of reasons but there's a lot of new research showing that

that these are worthy of

of exploring

with the same validity that we give to the other texts that we're talking about what are they dated to

the they're dated the late first early second century somewhere right around there some some of them later um

the

The book of John, the secret book of John, what makes it so

exceptional is that he believes, he said that it was dictated to him by

Jesus of Nazareth after his crucifixion.

So it wasn't before, it came after.

But the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Thomas is probably the most controversial.

It's 114

sayings

that were recorded by

Thomas, and the book says Didymus Thomas

was the name.

And it's almost like it's different from all the other books in that it is each saying is a teaching unto itself.

And

what he is saying are,

again, I'm hesitating because we're just covering so much ground here.

What

Yeshua was his name, what he was teaching was so profound for his time.

There were outer teachings and inner teachings.

The outer teachings were for the masses, and it's primarily what you see in the Gospels.

The inner teachings were for those initiates that could really understand what it was he was saying, and that's what the Gospel of Thomas appears to be.

It did come from a later time.

I don't think it then validates that,

you know, what it is that is being said in there.

What is being said that's so controversial?

Well, there's 114 sayings in there, but the bottom line, and this is one I think that is probably one of the most well-known, where he says,

what you have, what you bring forth from within you will save you, and what you don't bring forth from within you will destroy you.

He's saying there's a power inside of us that has to be expressed.

And these texts are all about how we awaken that power.

Okay, so the name, and I'm going to use a word and then I'll define it.

The name that is given to that power traditionally is called divinity, but it has nothing to do with religion.

So that association is made because there are schools of divinity that make that, and they're great schools, they do great things.

But the contemporary definition of divinity, I love this, the ability to transcend perceived limitations.

And that's it.

So the ability to transcend, to become more than perceived.

Joe, you and I, our listeners,

we are living limits that probably aren't even real.

We're living within limits that we have been indoctrinated to accept about ourselves.

Divinity is our ability to become the best version of ourselves.

Expressions of divinity, imagination.

I mean, no other form of life can do what we do with imagination.

I want to talk about that in just a moment.

It's more than just a picture in your mind.

An image in the mind is setting in motion a cascade of chemical effects in the human body that literally change us.

We are changed in the presence of the right kind of imagination, and the books tell us how to do that.

So imagination, creativity, innovation, empathy, sympathy, love, compassion, healing, forgiveness, these are expressions of human divinity.

It's what sets us apart from all our forms of life.

It makes us such powerful beings.

The purpose of evil, and this might be the most important thing that we say today, because it's a nebulous concept, good and evil,

until you give it a benchmark.

The purpose of evil is to deny human divinity.

The purpose of evil is to deny us our greatest expressions, imagination, creativity, the ability to communicate and share our ideas, empathy, sympathy, self-healing, all of those things.

So in a very real sense, Joe, anything that denies those things is an expression of evil.

So when we find that algorithms are denying us the ability to communicate our ideas from this perspective, that's an expression of evil.

When we find we put something into our bodies that prevents us from healing our own bodies, that is an expression of evil.

What the Gnostic texts are saying is that we are in a process that has a beginning and an end.

And the purpose of the process is to deny humankind

our own humanness.

That has been playing out over eons, and now the technology is allowing it to play out to a greater degree because things like AI, things like misused, I'm not anti-AI, it's how it's used, things like computer chips in the brain, computer-brain interface, all these things, what they're doing, Joe, is they are denying our humanness, use it or lose it.

If we're using technology in place of our imagination, for example, and the psychology journals are full of articles about this, people that chronically use artists, musicians.

My wife is a voting member of the Grammys, and we just had this conversation.

You've got musicians who go to ChatGPT and say, hey, write me a song, and now put some music to that song, and now you enter it with the Grammys, and you are competing against a human who has labored 30 or so years to master master their voice and an instrument, and you say, is that fair?

Well,

they're struggling with that right now.

So these are all expressions

of anything that denies our humanness

from that perspective is an expression of evil.

Who is doing that?

That is what those texts are all about.

That's what the texts are talking to us about.

Here's an interesting...

This is Gospel of Thomas 1:14.

That's how it ends.

Simon, Peter, said to them, Let Mary go away from us, for women are not worthy of life.

Jesus said, Look, I will draw her in so as to make her male, so that she too may become a living male spirit similar to you.

But I say to you, every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Okay.

So

what is going on?

Can you go?

Pull up.

I'm not sure why you chose that one.

I've got just a little bit of a single picture.

Can you pull up number 70?

That's a very interesting part.

We can talk about it because it's in code.

And he's talking about the marriage, the sacred marriage of masculine and feminine.

And it's when you, he said, when you make the two, one and the inside like the outside, then you will say the mountain move and the mountain will move.

And what he's talking about is

honoring the masculine and the feminine, and that's more than just a metaphor.

I mean, there's a whole thing that goes with that.

Can you bring up saying number 70?

I'll go up to 70, sure.

Or number 10.

Well, star 70.

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So, 70 says, Jesus says,

if you bring it into being within you, then that which you have will save you.

If you do not have it within you, then that which you do not have within you will kill you.

Jesus says, I will destroy this house and no one will be able to build it again.

This is the thing.

He says, and if you go to the early...

when I was looking it up,

the Catholics say that some of this stuff Jesus did say

it.

Some of it he did not say, and some of it's flat out made up.

They have a problem with the dating, but they also have a problem.

It doesn't support the narrative.

So there were two councils.

There was a council of Carthage and the Council of Nicaea.

And this is where they excluded these documents, but they had been accepted prior to that.

Just like Enoch.

You've had people in here talk about the Book of Enoch.

That was accepted before these as well.

So what these are, they're inner teachings not meant for the masses

based upon the concepts that he's sharing.

And this is where he's saying there is something inside of us.

And the rest of the Gospels, this is what Philip and Thomas are talking about, is that we are imbued with this force, given to no other form of life.

It's a light.

It is an intelligence.

And

when

we are fully empowered in this intelligence, we are sovereign, critically thinking beings, and we are no longer susceptible and vulnerable to the agendas and the ideas of others.

And there are multiple agendas that are out there.

So from this time, and now when you go to the Sumerian text, they say the same thing.

They're saying when they beheld what it was that they created, it had more light, more power than those that created it.

Then you get into the whole conversation, Genesis, you know,

where it says God created

man,

but that's a translation error because the original texts say Elohim, and Elohim is a plural.

Some people will say it's not.

There's exceptions to that.

But it says Elohim said, let us create man in our image.

So even if Elohim is not plural, us implies more than one God.

So the point of all of this, and we can drill down into the weeds and all these, but it appears that there was a collective of intelligence that is responsible for

us.

Okay?

That's not science, that's the text.

Now you look at the science, the DNA is telling us that 200,000 years ago, there were mutations that cannot happen in nature that imbued us with the ability to communicate with one another and all of these things that we're that we're talking about

and almost from the moment that we were imbued with these things there was an attempt to deny us our power and that attempt continues today

so I think a good case can be made everything you're seeing happen in the world it's all important

The wars,

the economies, all the conversation of climate, is all important.

And there is a level where it has become a distraction to keep us spun up and in fear so that we, because we're so close, Joe, we're so close as a species to awakening this fundamental force within us.

The closer we get to that awakening, the more chaos you see in the world to keep us distracted.

And I'll give you a perfect.

What is causing this awakening?

I think consciousness is...

So here's...

So is this the battle that we have to fight though is this like because it seems like there's always a pull and a push right I think it's it's a battle

or a struggle depending on on what language you want to use

there's a deeper conversation and I think we're going to get to this in a minute but what I want to go back I said I would I would elaborate on this there's a part of us that doesn't live in our bodies science is struggling with this but there's a scientific experiment I've got it here but if you can bring it up so let me just

Let me just tell you about it.

Well, I labeled each one, and I've got a key sheet here.

But you'll be able to see it when it's on there.

So, here, this is a mind-blower.

If you haven't heard this, and if you have, let me know.

I don't want to be redundant, but well, tell everybody else if I have.

Okay, so 2022.

Well, let me ask this: okay, do you remember when you were a kid a game called Pong?

Pong.

Like, pink, doot, doot, do, do, pong.

Pong was a case, I think it came out in 72,

and it was so primitive.

Joe, it's like a

tennis game on a screen.

But computers were new, and we'd never seen anything like I would go to work.

I was in a secure area,

DOD, working on the Peacekeeper Missile Project.

After lunch, guys would come in on their CRT screens, and they'd be mesmerized.

They couldn't help it.

They were mesmerized with this game of Pong, this little boom, boom, boom, boom, and that's all it was.

Okay?

So the point is, Pong was pervasive in our culture.

Everybody knew what it was.

2022, scientists did an experiment, and I've got it.

He can find it, or I've got it on that.

You can bring it up if you want to see it.

Actually, Pong is on there.

If you bring up the Pong file.

This is part of the problem with the PowerPoint stuff.

This kind of stuff happens.

I don't think that's what you intended to show, is it?

Well, you can see part of it.

But that's what can you back up?

No, it's to back up.

Back up a couple of slides, and

there it is right there.

And you should be able to, is it going to animate it for us?

Well, I think most people know how Pong works.

Okay, there it is.

I used to have it when I was.

I'm trying to say the thing you're trying to get me to show, which is the next slide, is it's got an error in the.

Well, so here's what they did.

2022, scientists took neurons,

but there was no human attached.

And they put them into a Petri dish to keep them alive.

And they hooked up the neurons to a computer chip.

So now you've got

a biology-technology interface.

All right, so the neurons are hooked up to a chip.

The chip was put into a computer that was loaded with Pong.

The neurons began playing the game of Pong, even though there was no human attached to the neurons.

And the longer they played, the better they got.

They were actually learning how to play Pong better.

And now the scientists are struggling with the question, how does a neuron not attached to a human in a Petri dish know how to play Pong?

Where are the instructions?

Okay, so I remember when I was a kid, Einstein had died and they had his brain thin sectioned in

the University of Kansas.

because they wanted to see what made his brain different from everybody else.

And it looked pretty much like everybody else's with one exception.

He had a whole whole lot of folds in his brain.

So when you stretch those folds out, he had more surface area.

He had more neurons.

So they're thinking, but there was E equals M C square wasn't in the brain.

All right.

So now they're looking at those neurons.

They're saying,

where's the instructions for Pong?

You know, and they're trying to figure out where it is.

Well, here's what this experiment is telling us: the instructions aren't in the neurons.

The neurons are a biological antenna, a molecular antenna that tune to the place in the field where Pong is pervasive.

The field.

There was a time when the field was a metaphor.

You know,

metaphysical people, spiritual people, you say, oh yeah, you know, it's out in the field.

July 4th

of 2012, the CERN Superconducting Super Collider made an announcement that they had discovered a field that had been predicted by Peter Higgs, the physicist Peter Higgs.

Well, they found the Higgs boson, and what that implied was that there was a field supporting the boson, and now it's accepted science.

They say, oh, yeah, there's a field.

So here's the thing: I was at a conference recently.

Here's what scientists are doing.

This is a hoot.

They're still saying this.

They're saying, oh, yeah, there's a field out there that connects everything, and their hands are doing this.

The field's not out there.

We're the field.

Okay?

50 trillion cells in the human body.

Every one of those cells has about 100 trillion atoms emerging from the field and collapsing into the field.

Right now, you and I, we're constantly, the atoms in our bodies are emerging and collapsing into that field.

We are the field, and that is what makes us so powerful.

This is why we can heal our bodies almost instantaneously when we know how to access

this part of ourselves because we hold the blueprint that tells those atoms how to express when they come into the body.

So if you've got something you don't like in your body, what you do is you are using the gift of imagination to create a new blueprint for that atom to come into.

And that sounds crazy to some people.

And there's a lot of science that's struggling with this.

But when you get into the quantum world, you get into the fact that the Higgs field exists, you get into the fact that the imagination

in the mirror neurons of the human brain, mirror neurons were only discovered in 2004.

And the thing about mirror neurons is they don't know the difference between watching an experience and having an experience.

So for example, you can be on the couch on a Sunday afternoon watching the Joe Rogan show

with an exciting guest.

You're just laying there, but your heart might be racing and your body's perspiring, your muscle, or maybe you're watching soccer.

Because your neurons don't know the difference between watching and having the experience.

This is why porn is so addictive, because the mirror neurons don't know the difference between having and

witnessing the experience.

They're going to kick up the same addictive chemicals, the same dopamine, the same levels of adrenaline, watching the image that they are having the image.

Here's where our power comes from.

Because the image can be imagined.

When we are able to hold an image of ourselves, fully enabled, fully capacitated, fully healed, fully awakened,

hold that image.

What we're actually doing is we're programming the body.

And this is something, shamans know this.

And I live in northern New Mexico.

Our indigenous healers all know this.

I spent a lot of time in Peru and the Andes, the Andean Peruvians.

They use different language.

So the point of all of this is we're not what we've been told and we're so much more than we've been led to believe.

And it is the attempt to deny that power that is driving so much of what we're seeing happening in our world today.

And so you think the motivation of that attempt is evil?

Yes.

Because that's an actual force that people are giving into.

And that's why they're enacting all these levels of control.

And that's why they're suppressing people and releasing bots on the Internet.

It's literally an expression of evil.

And evil is not necessarily darkness.

A lot of people confuse these.

Darkness is simply a polar force.

We live in a binary world.

We've got to have light and dark, plus and minus, boys and girls.

The darkness is a passive polarity.

Evil has an active stated purpose.

And the purpose of evil has always been, whether you're looking at those ancient texts or the the Sumerian texts, Mesopotamian texts, it's always been to

deny us the greatest expressions of our humanness.

And now we live in a time, this is no ordinary time in history.

None of this is happening in a vacuum.

We're barreling down the road toward this convergence of so many natural cycles and the date 2030.

that has been identified by the United Nations, by the WEF, by a number of corporations, by Ray Kurzweil,

in terms of AI implementation.

They're all looking at 2030.

And what you're seeing are the powers and the forces of the world jockeying to be in the best position

when this date is upon us.

And I'm not saying it's like January 1st, 2030, but the United Nations, for example, they've got

And again, I don't know if I'm being redundant here, but they've got the UN SDG 2030, United Nations Sustainable Development Goals, they want implemented by the year 2030.

They're not getting much traction because they're not good ideas.

The goals, if you read them on the outside, Joe, they're deceptively beautiful.

Who doesn't want

food security?

Who doesn't want the end of poverty?

Who doesn't want the end of disease?

Now you look at the fine print.

How will they achieve those goals?

And that's where it gets very concerning.

They haven't had much traction because

the way to get there is concerning.

They're not good ideas.

Now we look at World Economic Forum.

I know you've had people talking about WEF.

They've been around since 1971.

They meet once a year in Davos.

They talk about what they would like the world to look like.

And they have every right to do that.

Some of their ideas are very dystopian, in my opinion.

things like you will own nothing and be happy, you know, we've heard that.

Or the the great Reset is the term that they coined, or the fourth industrial revolution.

They haven't gotten much traction.

But they recognized that their goals were similar to the UN.

So in 2019, these two organizations joined forces.

They signed a formal document.

So now the WEF ideas

have traction through the UN

implementation of these sustainable development goals.

And the goals can be beautiful.

I'm not against the goals at all.

It's how we go about, do we honor ourselves and do we honor our humanists as we achieve those goals?

And there are very different ideas about what, you know, what it is that means.

I have a video clip,

WEF.

Do you see that on there?

Can we bring that video clip up?

Because in one sentence,

Klaus Schwab states the goal for the fourth industrial revolution.

And if he doesn't have, I just want you to hear it in his voice.

He said the goal is the merging of the natural world, the digital world, and the biological world, our biological identity.

He said the goal of this fourth industrial revolution is to merge all of those into this massive

database run by AI.

And

here,

you can hear it.

It should be the next.

It's at the end.

What the fourth industrial evolution will lead to is a fusion of our physical, our digital, and

our biological identities.

Did you hear how he paused?

before he said biological.

Did you catch that?

So he's saying, okay, the physical world's already tokenized.

We have a digital ID for every elephant, all the forests, the oceans, all of the energy resources, that's already tokenized.

The digital world is already digital, so that's tokenized.

Then there's a pause.

He said, and,

of course, our biological identities, because he knows the implication of what he's saying.

That's us.

And right now, we are not fully implemented into that system.

But that statement, and the reason I wanted to share that, that is what's driving everything you're seeing happening in the world.

The implementation of the technology, that statement is driving the implementation of that technology.

The AI,

the way that we are being indoctrinated to accept it,

first accept it in our lives and then develop a dependency.

upon that AI.

Ultimately, there will be some kind of compliance.

We'll be told we need to use the AI in order to, you know, accomplish certain things, do our banking or, you know, whatever it is.

It's all being driven by AI.

That sentence is a very, very powerful sentence.

It also couldn't have been delivered by someone who looks more like a villain in a movie.

Or

sounds like one.

You're familiar with Klaus Schwab, right?

Oh, yeah.

We have a photo of him in the bathroom where he was wearing that crazy Darth Vader outfit.

I saw that in the bathroom, and I was like,

it was dark in the bathroom.

It's such an insane photo.

like who the hell would dress like that who would say the things that that guy Jamie find that photo please who would say the things that that guy has said like that with that accent and dress this way well this is exactly well this is this is why we're having this conversation Joe you know I'm I'm advocating for our humanness

I believe we are there it is like what what are you wearing bro Like don't go out dressed like that.

Don't talk like that.

When you talk like that, you got to wear suits and you got to look real normal.

Where do the emblems?

Where do the emblems come?

I was at an event where everyone was wearing that.

Yeah, whatever.

Don't wear it.

If you talk like Darth Vader, don't wear it.

But see, all of this is happening from people.

This is happening from people that

are afraid of our humanists.

They don't know what it means to be human.

They're afraid of dying.

The transhumanists are afraid of dying, so they want to live forever.

Right.

Well, they're also extremely wealthy and they want to control.

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Masses.

And the best way to control the masses.

Masses the control is doing it this way.

Yeah.

There is a fundamental, it's a very very ancient, if you don't know this, the world looks like it's spinning out of control for no reason.

When you begin, and you don't have to think about it every day, but when you look at the big picture and you can see there's a fundamental struggle between, if you want to use the language good and evil, it's a charged language, and I know that.

And that's the language that we're using.

But

the denial of our human potential.

And so the best way, what do we do about that, is if the purpose of the evil is to deny our humanness and our divinity, we triumph by living the best version of ourselves.

We triumph by imagining freely and sharing ideas and creating and don't be afraid to have empathy and sympathy and compassion.

And now you have a benchmark because when something comes up on social media or something, we're asked to do something, we say, well, I don't know if this is a good thing or not.

You ask yourself, does it affirm or does it deny my humanness?

Does it affirm or deny my ability to imagine, to create, to love, to forgive, empathy, sympathy, compassion, to share ideas, deep intuition?

Does it affirm or deny those?

And then that'll tell you what you need to know.

What you choose after that is up to the individual, but it won't be a blind choice.

And I think this is up for us right now.

Okay, so now evil in technology.

and the algorithms of social media that are designed to break the social bonds that have have always held us together as communities.

And you know,

this began right around 2011, I think was the Occupy movement, and it pitted the rich against the poor, 99% against 1%.

That's a very real issue.

And Joe, we could have used that and come to the table and had a conversation.

and a healing that would bring us closer together as a society, but it was weaponized to drive us apart.

And then the same thing happened, Men against women, blacks against whites, Christians against Muslims, Jews against Muslims.

Now it's male against female, and the genders are being blurred.

All of this, by design, breaking the social bonds that hold families and communities and societies together because we're more vulnerable when we lose these bonds.

And the algorithms that do that, I mean, I'm fast, as a computer scientist, I'm fascinated by this.

We have what are called

information silos.

So, say there's

parents and their kids, and the mom goes to work, and she goes on YouTube and queries a bunch of stuff, and you know what happens is the algorithm just starts feeding you.

I mean, it's everywhere.

You're feeding one perspective of what it is.

that you've just queried.

Meanwhile, dad's at work.

He's doing the same thing.

His algorithm has given him a separate perspective.

The kids are doing the same thing.

And now they meet at the family dinner table.

And everybody believes that their story is the real story.

It's the right.

It's the true story.

That breaks the social bonds.

And we're seeing this happen.

We're seeing this happen in our society.

And,

you know, there is a, it's following an algorithm that's very easy.

Are you familiar with Saul Olinski?

I think you're probably.

Rules for Radicals.

Yeah, Rules for Radicals.

This is exactly what it's following.

He said you choose a target, you freeze that target, you isolate it, you personalize it, and you polarize it.

And that's exactly what's being, it's a simple algorithm, and that's exactly, you think of all those things we just talked about.

All of a sudden, it's all you see in the news.

You're freezing it for everybody to see.

You're personalizing it.

What is that?

How are you getting ripped off and how is it hurting you if you do that?

And then you polarize that.

And it just drives people apart because they believe

what they're being shown.

And so my invitation.

Add that to the fact that people are addicted to social media.

So they're addicted to being inundated by all this propaganda and

all these various competing narratives.

You can't leave your phone alone.

It's more and more addictive every time you pick it up.

The newer ones are even better.

The screens are even bigger.

Now you've got a foldable one.

It opens up into a tablet that's in your pocket.

And people are just full-on addicted to what is a lot of negative information, far more than you would get just living your ordinary life.

You don't see much information.

You don't see joyous information that brings us together very often.

Do you?

Do you see anything?

Well, you can if you curate your feed well, but the problem is if you spend any amount of time,

you're going to be impacted by some ideas that you don't like.

You know, there's going to be a lot of negativity.

Like, there's a lot of things that X shows me that I did not sign up for this person's page.

I do not know.

They just showed up in my feed.

I do not follow them.

But all of a sudden it appears.

And I read it and I'm like, oh, this is fucking horrible.

This is like, what a terrible take.

And you see people arguing in the worst, most evil way possible,

celebrating people's deaths and hoping more people die.

And you're like, oh my God, I got to get out of here.

That is evil.

If you I mean, I'm not saying that those human beings are evil.

I think most of those human beings don't even know what they're doing.

Exactly.

They don't even think of it as real life.

They think think of it as it's called shit posting.

You know what shit posting is?

You know, people just post things for the lulls.

They just post it to get reactions out of people.

And there's a lot of that going on.

There's a lot of people expressing their boredom with negativity, expressing their frustration with their station in life, with negativity online, and then feeding into it, arguing with other people.

Instead of addressing their own individual real-life problems, they start looking at all these things that they're creating online.

That's their primary focus, like throughout the day, is these stupid ideological battles they're they're having with people that might not even be real people.

It's evil.

It's kind of evil.

It is.

Because it's robbing what you're saying.

It's robbing you of your opportunity to achieve a higher level of humanity.

Well, I think what you said is really important.

Many people are naive.

Because they are participating doesn't mean that they're evil people.

Right.

And that even goes for

most people.

Even people that do a lot of horrible acts.

I agree.

Because they're trapped.

But see, then, and this is why I said what I said earlier, we can tie into this.

People who have a propensity, they have a spiritual weakness.

This is a spiritual battle, not religious, but it's a deeply spiritual battle that's playing out on earth right now.

And it's showing up in every facet of our lives, whether we want to think about it or not.

People that have a propensity for greed.

because that's their spiritual weakness or a propensity for power or control.

They will fall into those roles.

They don't even know.

And I've worked with people and I've been in organizations and I've seen it happen.

They're naive.

Many of them, some of them know exactly what they're doing.

There are some that know exactly what they're doing, but most of them are very naive and they want to be relevant.

And so they will follow the pack,

is what they will do.

And so this is where I think you can recognize, this is where discernment comes in, to recognize it without judging it, because

this is a spiritual battle.

And at the end of the day,

what matters,

Joe, is what do we become in the presence of what the world shows us?

What do we allow the events of the world to make us into?

Do we allow an election that didn't turn the way that we had wanted to reduce us to the most primal levels of hate and revenge and anger, something we'd never do in a million years, but we succumb to that.

Or

do we recognize what it is that has happened?

It doesn't mean we have to agree with it.

But the question is, do we make the decisions from our love

of the families behind us?

and our friends and our community, or do we make our decisions from the fear of what we perceive as our enemy in front of us?

And that happens every moment of every day.

I have been in a business meeting with someone who is pure evil.

Pure evil.

And the first time it happened, it caught me off guard.

And then I learned.

And it will never happen.

Actually,

can you tell me what the meeting was?

I can't.

Give me some details.

It was a business.

It was in this industry that we're in right now, in the information industry, the publishing industry.

And I was with an individual

who

found myself saying things that I would never say in a million years while that individual was looking at me and smiling because he was

somehow inciting me to say those things.

It was almost like

in some way there was a force that I had not learned to reckon with.

I have since learned.

Were you young at the time?

I was an adult.

I was younger than I am now.

Yeah.

And,

you know, this comes up for all of us in different ways.

But you're not taking responsibility for the words that are coming out of your mouth.

I couldn't stop it.

That was the weird thing.

I couldn't stop it.

And do you think that was anxiety?

I don't know what it was, Joe.

I heard myself say, I was dissociated.

I heard myself saying them, and I didn't want to say them.

Couldn't you attribute that to a lot of psychological factors like anxiety and stress and

the anticipation of this moment?

I could accept.

Power structures.

I could accept that he was looking right at me and he had this smile.

And when I saw him again, he tried to do the same thing again, and it didn't work.

I tried to do it.

See, this is my problem with you.

And you're not taking personal responsibility for the words that are coming out of your mouth.

I did.

Right.

But you're saying that this guy forced those words to coming out of you.

And

that is where it gets a little slippery because, like, why do you

not just assume that it was your own anxiety, your own stress level?

People behave out of pocket sometimes.

They think outside of their own character sometimes.

They talk out of character and then they go, well, I don't even know why I was saying that.

I'm sorry.

You know, that happens.

I agree.

I agree with you 100%, Joe.

And that's there are other circumstances that I just can't talk about.

But you think this person was actually an evil person?

Oh, I know.

Yeah.

I know that this person was.

And other people have had similar experiences that

continue to have similar experiences.

Well, I don't doubt that there are legitimately actually fully evil people in the world.

And I think there's a lot of evidence that those people have existed historically.

I mean, you think about some of the atrocities that people have done throughout history.

I mean, the obvious one is Hitler.

But, I mean, you could go through history.

You could get Genghis Khan.

I mean, you could, there's so many people that have done unbelievably evil things in this world.

When that happens, and it's happening today, I mean, it's happening today right now.

You don't have to look at history.

Look at Gaza.

Those, yep, that's a perfect example.

To do what is happening there

when it comes human to human, the only way that a human, one human can perpetrate that onto another is to sever the relationship to their divinity.

And we have the choice to do that.

We can deny our divinity, we can have it taken from us by those who have power over us, or we can, technology can deny our divinity.

But someone who,

and that is closely linked to the soul, which is not the spirit.

So the soul is our localized, you know, lifetime experience.

When we

sever that relationship,

that is

what allows the individual to carry out those kinds of atrocities.

Because

an individual who is connected to their divinity and their soul could never look another human in the eye and hurt them the way that we know that it has happened in our lives.

And it has, it's happened throughout history.

So

my focus, what I'm really passionate about, and and it's not just like any old time in history, we're on the precipice, Joe.

I mean, the decisions are being made

within the next couple of years as to whether or not we will give our humanness away to technology or if we allow the technology to serve us but not enslave us.

AI is an example of that.

The brain-computer interfaces that are going on, BCI, that's a big conversation going on right now.

And if we get lost in the weeds of just AI or just the BCI,

it's easy to do that.

But I think it's important to keep, there's a bigger picture.

There's a struggle.

There's an ancient struggle going on here.

And it is because, and

this is what's so powerful.

It's because there's something inside of us that's worth the struggle.

And our children are not being taught that.

Our young kids are being told that they're a flawed form of life.

They need something outside of our bodies.

We need to protect our kids.

What do you think that thing is?

Do you think that's what the soul is?

I think it's our divinity, is the ability to express, and this is going back to the Gnostic texts.

This is why they were heretical.

Because the Gnostic texts said that we have a hotline

to a higher realm, that we don't have to go through an intermediary, that we are imbued with this spark, or whatever language you want to use,

given the northern form of life, and that when we awaken that, that

we become God-like.

Not God, but God-like.

And this was the message of Yeshua in the Gnostic texts.

And that's the message that was denied and called heretical.

Because

if we are

that,

then we don't need an intermediary.

So I think what we're looking at right now is do we love ourselves enough?

Do we love ourselves enough to accept the gift of our humanness and what it means to be human and what it means to be

divine and not bring religion into the conversation?

And maybe just find another word if people aren't comfortable with that word.

But I really want people to know, and especially, you know, I do live events with these young kids, Joe, and they've been taught to worship technology.

The computer chip is God.

AI is God.

And then I show them, and I've showed some studies.

Salk Institute in Northern California did a study, and they compared a human brain to a microprocessor.

And you say, well, how can you make that comparison?

I said that.

The microprocessor has about the same number of transistors that the human brain has of synapses in the brain.

Interestingly, it's about the same number.

And so they ran all these tests and what they found, literally the human brain, okay,

the computer chip, is it fast?

Yes.

Is it efficient?

Yes.

Is it scalable?

You can only scale the chip.

It will only run as fast as the physics.

that of the stuff it's made of will allow, the silicon or whatever it is, and then it tops out.

The human brain, is it fast?

Yes.

Is it efficient?

Yes.

Is it scalable?

What is the top end of a human brain?

And the answer is we don't know.

Because every time we push a human brain to what we think is the limit that we've been taught to accept, this is the beauty of our divinity, what we do is we morph and adapt and open up a whole new vista.

of potentials.

The Tibetan monks, a perfect example of this.

When I was in school, again, back 50s and 60s, we were taught that the human brain maxes out about 40 hertz, 40 cycles per second, all the medical books, textbooks, everything.

And then these Tibetan monks came along and they said, well, if we do a certain kind of meditation, you know, we'll exceed that.

And they bumped, they doubled it.

They went to 80, 80 hertz.

The scientists said, okay, so maybe we got it wrong once.

But the human brain can't possibly do any more than that.

And the monks said, well, you know, if we do a different kind of meditation, you know where this is going.

Then they push it up to 100 hertz, and then they had to come up with another brain state called gamma, and then they pushed it to 120 and 130 and 150 and one, and they 200 cycles per second.

Now they have to call it hypergamma.

But then they even went the other direction, Joe.

This is a mind-blower.

We...

typically think when the human brain shows less than one cycle per second of processing, less than one hertz, that person's not there anymore.

And the monks were able to consciously drive their brain state to 0.5 hertz, less than one.

They're very conscious, they're very awake, they're just in a way different state of mind.

And that opens the door to a lot of questions about,

you know, what does it mean when you see low brain activity?

Is someone actually in a healing state or are they really not there?

I think it deserves more study.

But the the point of all of this, and there is a point,

is that

through nothing more than breath and focus, so nothing external, no chemicals, no machines, those Tibetan monks demonstrated that we not only meet, but we are exceeding.

the brain capacity that we thought we had in the past.

Trevor Burrus, And the fascinating thing about them is you would have to do what they do to be able to understand how their brain functions.

You would have to have meditated for 30 plus years in the same exact way to achieve these states that they achieve.

Otherwise, you're just guessing about what that's like.

I led groups in the Tibet from

the mid-90s to the early 2000s.

And we would go to 12 monasteries and two nunneries over 26 days.

And we would sit with these people and through the translators.

They would teach us.

And you don't, you could spend that kind of time, but the beauty is you don't have to.

So to get to their level, it's not like other things, like you get really good at guitar by practicing for years and years.

It's not the same thing.

It is.

No, there is practice and there is discipline.

Absolutely.

I'm not denying that at all.

What I'm saying is, like, there's an Eddie Van Halen of being a monk.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

Like, a regular guy can't shred like that, right?

But Eddie Van Halen played guitar for thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of hours with an incredible focus and became Eddie Van Halen.

And if you're a monk, you know Eddie Van Halen is.

I love this analogy.

I do.

You know what I'm saying?

To be a virtuoso, to be a Steve Rayvon, to be a Jimi Hendrix,

it requires immense amount of time.

Yes.

I would imagine to get really good at that kind of meditation, it would be a similar thing.

There's a discipline.

There is a discipline.

But are there levels that get reached?

Like when someone's like a true master, they've been doing it for 20 years.

They can do something.

They can get to a state that other people can't get to.

There are, Joe.

And what I want to say is there are levels that you and I can do right this minute.

I think, I don't know if you've had any of the folks from the Institute of Heart Math.

It's a pioneering research organization in Northern California, been around since 1994.

I've worked with them since 95.

They

explore the power of the human heart beyond being simply a pump in the body.

That's probably the least of what it does.

And what they have done and made very accessible to the average person is the ability to create coherence between the heart and the brain, and that can happen in a heartbeat.

So here's what I mean by that.

1991.

By the way, I want to honor your time.

Are we okay on time?

Okay.

Has it been an hour yet?

More than an hour, yeah.

We're almost two hours.

No, I'm kidding.

Don't worry about anything.

Just let's talk.

All right.

I'm having a great time.

90.

I'm too.

Thank you.

Thank you.

91.

Yeah, 91.

Scientists discovered in the human heart.

I mean, 91 is not that long ago.

No.

And scientists are thinking, okay, we got the body nailed.

You know, we know how this works.

We do heart transplants.

They're successful, so we must have this all figured out.

They discovered 40,000 specialized cells in the human heart

called sensory neurites.

And when I say discovered, they'd always been there.

but nobody looked because they're like neurons, Joe, but they're not in the brain.

And you think, well, why are there neurons in the heart?

They think independently, they feel independently, independently, and they process independently from the neurons in the human brain.

And so, right there, there's a whole conversation about when we have trauma, our trauma is recorded in two different places.

You can do talk therapy in the brain.

If you don't address the heart, it may feel incomplete to have that therapy.

So, here's why I'm sharing this.

Now, we've got two neural networks: one in the heart, one in the brain.

And the Institute of Heart Math

made available the techniques, three very simple steps, to harmonize

two neural networks into a single potent system.

And we are the only form of life that can do this at will, on demand, we choose.

We're the only form of life that can sit in a chair and say, in this moment, I choose to create, the term is coherence.

And the coherence, optimum coherence, is a low frequency, 0.1 hertz.

So we're the only form of life that can choose to create 0.1 hertz between the heart and the brain, harmonizing two organs become one potent system in the body.

And when that happens, man, there's a whole cascade of things.

So let me, two categories, passive, passive benefits.

Just from harmonizing the heart and the brain, you supercharge the immune system.

And this is something I've done at least once a day since 90, 95 when I learned it, and sometimes multiple times a day.

Superimmune response.

You awaken longevity enzymes that everybody has in the body, but often go dormant for some people

as they age.

You can wake them up pretty quick.

Stem cells, you can wake them up pretty quick.

Resilience to change.

And this is fascinating to me because when young, we all know this, young kids are really resilient.

to change.

I come from a very dysfunctional alcoholic family.

We moved, my father left when I was 10.

We moved every year.

And I went to a different school every year and had to make new friends every year.

And it took a lot of resilience to do that.

I could do that then.

I'd probably have problems doing something like that now.

Because typically as we age, we lose resilience.

That is directly linked to what's called heart rate variability, HRV.

you know every heartbeat that goes boom boom boom boom boom boom it's it's the QRS complex.

And the time from one peak to the next, to the next, to the next varies.

When we're young, it varies a lot.

And that gives us resilience.

When we age, it becomes more regular, we lose our resilience, set in our waves.

Through harmonizing the heart and the brain, you can actually

reset that heart rate variability to to the point where it was when you were younger.

And it doesn't take long to do that.

So those are our passive benefits.

Now active benefits, once you're in that space, and this is where the really juicy stuff happens, deep intuition.

So this is where you do precognition.

You have the ability, your heart will sense an event before it actually happens.

And there's science showing why that is.

Like so many people knew 9-11 was going to happen before it happened.

And I'm not saying they did this, but they knew intuitively.

This is a way to awaken that kind of intuition on demand.

Deep intuition on demand.

There are 1,300 positive biochemical reactions from harmonizing the heart and the brain.

All right?

And what is the method you use to harmonize the heart?

Three steps.

One is you shift your focus from your mind into your heart.

And I've led groups with Indigenous people all over the world for 40 years.

And the way they all do this is they'll always touch their heart to bring their awareness to their heart center.

Some people use a finger or two.

If you're in the Mayan cultures, in Mexico, they use a full palm.

You see this in the Middle East.

People will greet one another with a full palm.

Buddhists will do it like this and nestle.

that prayer mudra right there.

And the point is that your awareness will always go to the place on your body where you feel the touch.

Like if I touch my arm, all my awareness went there.

Okay, that's the first step.

So you meet someone, you put your hands on your heart to bring awareness to your heart.

Yeah, yeah, you can do it that way.

This is what they do.

So the first step in heart-brain coherence,

developed by the Institute of Heart Math, you shift your awareness from your mind into your heart, first step.

Second step is to slow your breathing.

And the key here, it's not just enough just to slow it, but you exhale for a period of time longer than you inhale, because we all breathe at a different rate.

So for example, if we inhale four counts

and release six,

okay, that might work for me.

Somebody at

a higher elevation might do it differently.

But the point, the point is when you release, when you exhale for a period of time longer than you inhale, that triggers the relaxation response, parasympathetic nervous system.

You're telling your body, it's a language.

And what you're doing is you're telling your body, I am safe.

Because that's the only time you're.

Right, and hyperventilating is the opposite of that.

Yeah, you don't want to hyperventilate.

You feel safe at all.

So the second step is you're breathing slower, longer on the exhale, focusing as if your breath is coming from your heart while your focus is on your heart, two steps.

The third step is where you create 0.01 hertz.

You feel a feeling.

a positive feeling because you choose to feel the feeling.

And this is deceptively powerful, Joe, because most forms of life, including humans, only have a feeling in response to what the world shows to them.

We have the ability to have a feeling because we choose to have the feeling.

And what the science is showing is that the feeling of gratitude almost 100% works for everyone.

We all can sense

gratitude.

I mean, you can think of words like compassion.

That means different things to different people.

Love means different things.

But

we can be grateful for our children, our families, our lives, something like that.

And when we feel that feeling, it sends a signal, a very low frequency,

0.1 hertz,

from the heart to the brain in the presence of the slower breathing.

And that harmonization between the heart and the brain is what gives all the benefits that we just shared.

Everything, you know, superimmune response, stem cells,

longevity enzymes, all of those things.

And it's also if people do affirmations.

This is the place.

An affirmation

is a message to the subconscious.

And you have to speak in a language that the subconscious recognizes.

And

the coherence between the heart and the brain is like a hotline.

to the subconscious, but you don't have to be hypnotized.

So when you're saying affirmations, if you do it during that time, they're even more potent.

And we could spend a lot of time talking about the role of imagination, mirror neurons, all of that happening within the presence.

But the point,

going back to what you were mentioning about the Tibetan monks, yeah, you can study years learning what they're learning, and

there are benefits that we can access pretty quickly.

And it's it's science-based.

I mean, this is all peer-reviewed.

This is the beauty of the Institute of Heart Math.

They publish in peer-reviewed journals,

and they've done much more.

I'm just scratching the surface.

If anyone is not familiar with that, I invite people to go to www.heartmath, H-E-A-R-T-M-A-T-H.org, and it's all free.

You can check it out.

So do you believe that the connection between the heart and the mind, when you achieve that state, that it increases your intuition?

Absolutely.

Between the heart and the brain.

What did I say?

The heart and the heart and heart and the mind.

I said the heart and the mind.

Yeah, the heart and the brain.

And what you said, this is such a good question, Joe, and here's the reason.

And this is one of the places where it's so powerful.

I mean, you can use this stuff in a business environment for this very reason.

When we look at the world and solve our problems

from our mind, our brain, brain's left and right brain.

So, you know, you've got logic and intuition over here.

Those are the ego loops.

And the brain will always work in polarity.

That's where you're going to get your right and wrong, good and bad,

success, failure, worthy, not worthy.

And the ego, man, it'll spin you up in those loops for hours.

But here's the thing.

The heart is non-polarity.

It's not a polar organ.

So when you harmonize the heart and the brain, what you're doing is you're bypassing the ego loops.

And here's where that can be be powerful.

I did this in a corporate boardroom.

I was the youngest,

so I was the first tech ops manager at Cisco Systems in 1990 when they got the RFP for protocol converter so that all the branches of the armed services could, computers could talk to all the others before the First Gulf War.

And

when I would go into the boardroom, with an idea

and I knew that I was going to be criticized.

I'm also a Cancerian male.

And if you know anything about...

I've never heard anybody use that term.

A Cancerian?

Yeah, well,

that's my sign.

My birth sign is in Cancer.

I understand what it is, but I heard the term.

And

very emotion plays a big role.

It doesn't have to, you know, it's a stereotype, but it happens to be true for me.

Emotion plays a big role.

Criticism, coming from an alcoholic family, my father was the abuser and the criticizer.

And I've spent my whole life, working to, I'm still healing, you know, from that.

So when somebody would criticize my ideas, you know, it'd be hurtful.

I'd take it personally.

When you move into the coherence and you're not taking that criticism through good, bad, right, wrong, success, failure, now you can be much more objective and you can listen to it.

And when they're finished, you can say, well, you know, have you ever considered this?

Because you haven't reacted.

And it's a really powerful place to be.

Well, it's certainly worse if you're talking to a good faith actor, someone who really wants to talk about stuff and has a legitimate criticism.

But most of the time, when people are criticizing you, they're trying to hurt your feelings.

They are.

I never read my book reviews.

That's not a good move.

I mean, it's not that criticism is bad.

Criticism is critical.

Like, you can learn a lot from intelligent people, from their perspectives of things.

I've learned a lot from other people's criticism.

But the difference between that and dwelling on criticism, that's the part where people get wrapped up in their own identity and also interpersonal conflicts.

If you're a kind of person who like you're naturally argumentative and then someone says something, you're like, that's not fucking true.

And you want to say something back, but it's just...

It's a lot of negativity and a lot of wasted time.

And the way I try to describe it, especially to emerging famous people, and I'm like, you have to think of your life as if like your energy is a number like you have a hundred energies for the day like it's a unit and if you're spending 30 or 40 of those energies on 30 or 40 of those units on social media and of criticism and of negativity It's gonna rob the 60% that you really enjoy.

It's gonna rob your time with your friends, your family, your hobbies, your job, your community,

whatever you really love.

Hanging out with your dog.

There's people right now that are going on a walk with their sweet, sweet dog, and they're thinking about some mean post that someone made and the mean shit they're going to say to get back at that person.

Meanwhile, they're with this beautiful animal that, if you get on your knees, you're going, Are you having a good time?

They give you kisses and they put their paw on you.

Like, you're having so much fun.

It's so beautiful and loving.

And you're thinking about something stupid that has no bearing on this moment.

And you can't escape.

You can't escape.

You're like psychically connected to this negativity.

That's a tool.

It's a powerful tool.

That's why I tell them it's not worth it.

Well, this helps to be objective so you can hear the criticism.

I'm open to criticism.

It should be one-on-one.

Constructive.

Honestly.

Constructive.

One-on-one with compassionate people.

Not my Amazon book review.

Well, there's people out there that are critics, and this is an important distinction.

They're critics because they don't have anything to contribute.

And they didn't want to be critics, especially professional critics.

A lot of them wanted to be professional writers, but their work was not good.

Like Roger Ebert wrote one of the craziest scripts of all time.

Have you ever read it?

No.

You ever heard of it?

No, I know Roger Ebert.

I know the script.

It's very strange, like, out there.

Wasn't it like hypersexual?

What was it about?

Anyway, widely panned as being fucking terrible.

But this is the guy that is the guy that back in the day was the guy to review movies.

And it would be so snarky and so bite.

But you have to realize, like, look at him.

Look at these people.

Look at the way they they talk.

Is this the kind of opinion you value?

Like, why is this the thing that gets elevated?

Wouldn't you rather have the opinion of someone who really enjoys going to the movies and has great things to say about performing?

That's like someone who's enjoying it, not someone who wants to be pissed off so they can say the snarkiest, shittiest.

Have you ever seen the videos of the two of those guys arguing with each other off camera?

I know.

Those are amazing.

They called them bloopers, and I like the bloopers better in the reviewers.

They're better because that's the real guys.

They're really shitty guys.

They're super shitty to each other.

They're both so nasty to each other.

It's like, so those are the people that are dictating what is good and bad in culture.

That's nuts.

That's the problem with criticism.

That's the problem with critics.

A lot of them are shitheads.

Yep.

So you're getting the opinions primarily of shitheads.

But see, but what you're doing through coherence is that you're defusing that, the shithead criticism from having the impact on you so that you're thinking about it while you're out walking your dog on a beautiful day.

Well, that's the beautiful thing if you can do that.

If you can separate yourself from what they said.

But the only way you could really do that is if you are 100% happy with what you've done.

So if you write a book and that book, you nailed it.

You love it.

It's amazing.

If someone's like really critical of it, It's not for you.

But the thing that I made is perfect for the people who like the thing that I made.

You know, and that's, if you can get to a place where you could do that, that's great.

But you have to know that you put your all into what you did so that you don't feel bad about other people's negative opinion of it.

I agree.

But if you have something like I kind of half-assed that, I could have spent more time on this.

I wasn't really committed to that.

If you're doing that, then the criticism hurts because you know it's valid.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, if you're if you're going to do something, I think whatever we do, book or you know, music or whatever it is,

we do put a million percent into it.

I learned this, you know, my dad left when I was 10 and our family was devastated.

My mom

was my mom.

I have a younger brother, four years younger, and myself.

And mom all of a sudden was raising, you know, two boys.

And we knew we were in for some pretty rough times, man.

We were more than broke.

We ended up living in government-subsidized housing.

You know, it was a tough time.

And mom gave me a book at 10 years old.

She handed me this book, and she said, I think this is is going to be useful to you in your life.

And you may know this book.

It was by a man named Khalil Gabron.

Sure.

It's called The Prophet.

And

I read it to this day.

And there are different pieces that mean different things to me throughout my life.

But there was one piece where he talked about work.

And in the environment I grew up in, my father hated his job.

He hated work.

My friends all hated their work.

They just wanted to make money.

And Khalil Gabron, this is on every email that I write right at the bottom.

Khalil Gabron said, work is love made visible.

And I like that because it means that

when we're going to do something, you do it to the best of your ability and even more, or don't do it at all.

If you're going to do it, do it really, really well and find a way to give meaning to what you're doing.

You know, I went to work.

I used to work midnight to 6 a.m.

in a warehouse loading.

I don't talk about this a lot, but I was loading 50-pound bags of um

purina uh cat chow on the box cars so they could go out in the morning to this distribution and the guys i worked with man they hated they hated their job and i said you know what if i do this just right 50 pound bags if i use my my legs i can get a pretty good leg workout out of this and then when i'm done with that after dinner i'll come back and i can i can get a good upper body workout and i can use my arms and and all of a sudden i was getting paid for a great workout and they had a box car full of purina Purina cat-show, and it was love made visible.

That's a great perspective.

Well, it has stayed with me, and I'm saying this because if I write a book or if I do an event, anything I do, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it really, to the best of my ability.

If I can't do it to the best of my ability, I'll just, if I don't believe in it, I won't do it.

It's hard for young people to hear that because they're doing a job that sucks.

They just want to get out of there and go do what they love.

And sometimes a job that sucks is really good motivation to get you to work harder to go out and do the thing that you want to do that you love.

Because I don't think I would ever appreciate the life that I have now if I didn't have a bunch of really terrible jobs when I was young.

Well, we all did.

And I think there is something to be said.

If for a young person, I mean,

I used to do lawns.

I was a cook.

None of it was my dream.

But I said, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it really.

I'm going to do this really well.

Well, that's a great attitude.

And I think we're better.

And people people are like, oh my God, this drains you of your life force.

We're better for it if we can approach it in that way.

And then when you don't do it anymore, you stop doing it.

Well, yeah, I mean, if you have a negative attitude about something that you're doing versus a positive attitude, you can do the exact same thing with a positive attitude and actually enjoy it.

Yeah.

And just have fun.

And especially if you're working with good people.

So I have a question for you.

Okay.

When you invited me here, I've got 40 years of work.

Was there one particular facet of that work that you wanted to explore?

I've seen your work for a long time, and I've seen you say a lot of really interesting things for a long time.

It wasn't any one thing.

Although there was a conversation that you had recently that I thought was very interesting.

I don't know if it was recently, but it made it into my social media feeds recently where you were talking to someone about climate change.

And you were talking about carbon in the environment and its actual effect versus

a lot of the the narrative that you hear about this Green New Deal stuff and just the climate the the the freak out the climate freak out from the Al Gore film which by the way freaked everybody out and was totally inaccurate it was horribly inaccurate this was a film an inconvenient truth from

was it 2005

it was it before that yeah so this film freaked, literally freaked everyone out.

It was a PowerPoint.

He did a PowerPoint presentation.

2006.

Oh, it was.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, he gave a PowerPoint presentation and recorded it.

And this film was all about how we are fucked.

And by this time, the time we're living in right now, 2025, the Earth's supposed to be unlivable.

I mean, it's not, I'm exaggerating, but like Miami's underwater.

The coast.

Meanwhile, the coasts haven't moved at all.

And some of the wealthiest, most influential people in the world buy property on the coastline.

So, like, that, by the way, should tell you, you know, if the billionaires are buying beach houses, I think it's going to be okay in that regard.

But it's also like he made a lot of money off of it.

It became really weird because it became, he was speaking everywhere and he made hundreds of millions of dollars.

Carbon credits.

He created the carbon credit system.

Yeah.

The whole thing is kind of nuts when you're that wrong and nobody even calls you out on it.

Like you freaked everybody out from when I saw it in 2006.

All my friends were like, oh my God, we got to do something now.

We were all freaked out.

20 years later, very little difference.

It's not, what he said wasn't true.

And there's a lot of weird, inconvenient things.

One of the things that Randall Carlson brings up is one of the things about carbon is there's more green now on the surface of Earth than there has been.

Absolutely.

How many years?

How many years has it been?

20.

Well, NASA says

I have some slides called climate, if we want to look at any of these things.

And if people don't know why that would be, he was, well, plants eat carbon dioxide.

So here's,

I mean, we could do a whole three hours on this.

So I would come back and do that.

I'm a degree geologist, and I began looking at climate in 1979 when I was in the energy industry in Denver, Colorado.

Climate change is a fact, and I want to be on record.

I want to say it is a fact.

It's constantly changing.

And Earth is warming.

And if we weren't, I would be concerned because the warming is cyclic.

And if we weren't warming now, I wonder why we're not warming now.

And I want to be very clear.

We need to find clean, green, sustainable forms of energy.

And we've had them, Joe, for 70 years.

If we were, it goes even beyond thorium.

I don't know if you're familiar with thorium.

No, what's that?

So

the Manhattan Project.

Sounds like an antidepressant.

No, no, this is a mineral.

It's an element.

During the Manhattan Project, when they

did the crash program for the weapon,

they went through the periodic table to find out what elements could possibly be used to create the energy.

And they chose uranium because the byproduct was the plutonium that they needed for the weapons and for the nuclear reactors.

But it's not the only element that would work.

Element number 90 is thorium.

Thorium

is abundant in the Earth's crust.

It's inexpensive.

Almost every nation has access to it, so it's very easy to get.

It cannot melt down like a Fukushima.

It cannot be weaponized, which is one of the reasons that they're not using it.

The waste can become the new fuel.

It can be recycled as the fuel.

What?

Thorium element number 90.

And if you look it up, this is why Wikipedia is a problem.

If you look up Wikipedia and some of these other things, they'll say, well, it's theoretical.

We had thorium reactors back in the 80s.

China, Russia, the United States had them.

In Colorado, there was an Indian River facility that was largely

run on, it's called thorium salts, is what they were doing.

And that's just one example.

So what I'm saying is, if we were serious about clean, green, sustainable energy, there are technologies that they

would have allowed us to have that we haven't.

All right.

So, I just want to say that.

When it comes to

this is part of our earlier conversation, we are being taught to demonize carbon in general.

And our young people are frightened of carbon.

They think carbon is bad, carbon is evil.

Carbon is what we're made out of.

And so, they have no problem relinquishing their carbon-based, frail, fragile, flawed bodies for the technology because they've already been taught that carbon is bad.

Aaron Powell, which is bananas.

Well, it is bananas.

I can't believe it worked.

Well, we've got,

it's psychology.

There's a whole story behind that.

So I've got some images.

I don't know if we want to bring them up.

But this narrow view of carbon is so crazy.

First, right now, so CO2 levels right now are about 418, 420 parts per million, which is higher than it's been in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years.

That's true.

Is it dangerously high?

No.

And as a geologist, here's why I can say that.

When we go look at the geologic record, there are times we've had CO2 levels have been 1,000 parts per million, 2,000 parts per million.

And Earth was lush, Earth was green.

It was definitely a little warmer.

The ice melted.

The sea levels did rise.

That's a problem for people that build

10 feet from the sea thinking that the sea is always going to be 10 feet away.

Right.

All right.

Some of the most abundant times for life during the Jurassic period, Cretaceous,

during these periods.

And what's interesting is you can have very high carbon dioxide levels historically and the temperatures are low.

And vice versa.

You can have high temperatures and the CO2 is low.

And then one of the kickers is from the Vostok ice cores.

So

we recognized warming was happening.

Scientists went to Antarctica.

Okay, I'm going to back up for people who may not be familiar with this.

Every year there's a new layer of ice that is laid down in Greenland and Antarctica.

And in that layer of ice is captured little air bubbles of the atmosphere and particles of pollen and particles of volcanic dust.

And

we can tell from that layer what the temperatures have been, what the magnetic strength of the earth has been, how strong the sun has been.

I mean all this stuff.

Amazing.

It is a mind blower.

I'm just amazed.

We actually have ice core libraries.

So, I mean, very cold refrigerated rooms where they've seen that.

They take cores of it.

It's wild.

Yeah.

So scientists recognize the ice was...

Maybe you could pull a video of that up.

It's so fascinating to look at if people hadn't seen it.

I may have some pictures, and it's under climate on

the PowerPoints.

So what they did was they said,

we don't know what's happening, is what scientists said.

Let's capture as much information as we can before the ice melts.

So they drilled in Vostok, Antarctica,

and they ended up...

going back 420,000 years of layers of ice, continuous layers.

Whoa, how deep is that?

I'm not sure how deep that is.

They drilled below that was Vostok Lake.

So they went down as far as they could before they hit the lake.

That's a hell of a pipe.

It is.

And you can see, so here's here, and this was in the 80s and 90s, they were doing this.

And the real scientists know what I'm going to say, the real geologists that are not politicized and are not beholden to

academic or corporate interests that are paying their paychecks.

One of the problems is

in those ice cores, the temperature actually rises before the CO2 levels.

If the CO2 is causing that rise, that's a problem because you would expect the CO2 to rise first and then the temperature, and that's not what the ice cores.

I do have a slide of that if he wants to bring that up.

So it suggests that something else is happening.

And when we look at

it's it's this one right?

It's on the lower lower left, the second slide.

Second slide.

From the lower left.

I can't see.

This is a lot of slides, folks.

There's 28 slides.

Yeah, this is a presentation.

29.

Presentation that I gave.

Okay, right there.

So what you're seeing is the red is temperature, blue,

yeah.

And you can see that the

red, if you're coming from the past to the present, the red is rising first, and then the blue follows.

So the temperatures are rising first, and then the carbon dioxide is rising.

Now, there's a reason for that.

And a lot of people

don't like this.

What's driving climate change is under our feet.

Humans are not causing it.

All right.

And I know that's a big statement, and it's different than what a lot of people have heard, and I'm going to acknowledge that.

NASA said, I've got a slide showing that, NASA's showing 90% of the CO2 in the atmosphere, Joe, is coming from the outgassing of the oceans.

All right.

We know from high school science,

yeah, from high school science that cold water holds more gas.

The oceans are warming, and that's a fact.

And as they warm, they're releasing that CO2 into the atmosphere.

The kicker is they're warming from underneath, not from top.

So they're not, you don't think they're warming from

whatever we're doing to the atmosphere?

No.

Now, we are definitely contributing to CO2 in the atmosphere.

What would be the factor?

What would be the cause of the warming from below?

We're going to go through this.

I should probably just

go.

I have another one on there on

magnetic migrations.

Okay, so here's

the thing.

It's not a pole shifting deal.

No, no.

And I don't see any evidence of all the things to be concerned about.

Before the poles can shift, which they do occasionally, three factors have to be in place, and they're not there right now.

So let me just say that.

Right now.

Thank you for that.

Because I've been freaking out about that one.

No, they.

However, we're asking the wrong question.

They're not shifting, they're migrating.

Oh, great.

And the migration, what happens?

I'm not sure how far back to go.

So what we know is Paul Laviolette in the 1980s.

I knew him before he passed.

He was a brilliant, brilliant physicist.

Wrote a book called Earth Under Fire.

that was ridiculed a lot in the 80s.

And what he said is that every once in a while, on clockwork basis, there is a volley of

cosmic rays that comes, cosmic rays that come from the center of our Milky Way.

And cosmic rays, like they're passing through you and me right now, because we're mostly empty.

You know, we're 99.999% nothing.

Neutrinos and stuff like that.

Exactly.

And when they pass into the crust of the earth, nothing happens.

In the core, the core is so dense, Joe, because of the pressure of the Earth.

It's iron-nickel.

And it's so dense that those,

they can't pass through.

And it actually causes what's called perturbations.

And it begins to heat the core of the Earth.

And that causes,

it shifts rotation.

And right now, Japanese scientists are saying that the core is slowed or possibly even stopped.

I don't know if your guests have talked about that.

And

as the core goes through these cycles, so you look at the cross-section of the Earth, there's the inner core that's solid, the outer core is molten, then the mantle is about 1,800 miles thick, and it's magma, and then the crust is only about 36 miles thick.

So

in the textbooks, the inner core always looks like it's floating right in the middle of the earth, but that's not what's happening.

When it goes, when those particles are hitting it and heating it up, it actually bumps up against the outer core, causing ripples, perturbations is what they're called,

against the mantle, and the mantle begins to seep into the crust, and it's the mantle that is heating the oceans from underneath because of that.

It happens about every, well, about every 12,500 years.

And that number, if you talk to Randall, we just did a conference in Boulder.

He was in the conference that we did up there.

And that has to do with the Younger Dryas.

I think you've had guests talking about...

So the Younger Dryas was the last time that this happened.

It happened 12,500 years before that, 12,500 years before that.

I've got a chart.

You can see it.

It's like clockwork.

I'm looking at that NASA thing, and it said, I went to the website, it says that it's rising because

the ocean is absorbing the gases, causing the water to rise over time.

The ocean is that's that's the equilibrium.

It's outgassing,

and it's also

an equilibrium between what we're creating in the atmosphere.

We are creating in the atmosphere.

You have to be honest about it.

We're creating carbon dioxide, and the ocean is what's called the sink.

It's the CO2 sink that's soaking that up.

So what's happening, Joe, is

the mantle is being disturbed.

It is heating the oceans from underneath, releasing the carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

And that's where that's coming from.

When we look into the geologic history,

we've seen this happen before.

And

it's intense, it's brief, and it's what comes after that usually is the problem.

It's not the warming.

It's the problem.

Could you put that quote back up, please?

This was what was interesting.

Underneath it, it said: covering more than 70% of the Earth's surface, our

global ocean has a very high heat capacity.

It has absorbed 90% of the warming that has occurred in recent decades due to increasing greenhouse gases.

So this is acknowledging, though, that there has been an increase in the temperature because of our civilization, because of greenhouse gases.

There is an increase in CO2.

But it is saying an increase in warming.

In warming?

has occurred because of increasing greenhouse gases.

So what you are saying is these greenhouse gases,

we are contributing to it, but it is not the primary increase in It's not the primary, and the modeling is the problem.

Jamie, would you please?

So, will you, can I go, but before we go any further, if we didn't exist at all, if there was no industrial civilization, we existed like hunter-gatherers, would we have no impact?

Would it be the exact same thing, or would it be a fraction of a degree warmer because of human civilization?

I think we have to be honest.

I don't have the numbers on this.

I think we have to just be honest and say we are contributing to some degree.

So,

but you feel like it's it's a minor degree.

And even if we were hunter-gatherers, the same pattern of Earth warming would still be going on.

All we need to do is go back.

There's an orange chart on there, Jamie.

And you look at the Jurassic, Pleistocene.

We weren't right there.

Is this it right here?

Yeah.

And you can see the black,

I think, is the black the CO2?

Yes, it says atmospheric CO2, and the blue is global temperature.

How high it's been, and look at the temperatures, times when it's high.

Look in the orange over here when the CO2 is high, the temperatures are high.

What's up, Jamie?

500 million years ago.

I know, nuts, right?

Yeah, so we weren't there.

And this is what you can see from...

So then again, you don't have a lot of data from back then, do we?

What was going on?

Data comes from different sources.

You've got ice cores, and then...

I know, I just thought I mean just a lot of people.

How are they getting data from 500 million years ago?

You get it from seafloor sediments.

Jeez.

It is one of the things you can do.

There's a little sea creature called the Globogerina.

Are those tests getting better as we get

more recently in the

now, I guess?

So

we can go into this as deep as you want.

What I want you to see here is there's not a direct correlation between CO2 and temperature in the past.

We can say that.

And we can also see that CO2 levels have been higher in the past than they are now.

And Earth was lush, it was green.

Life was flourishing.

As Randall Carlson always says, global cooling is what's really

now.

I'm I'm going to tie it back in to what we began this conversation with.

There's a concerted effort to remake the world and to remake our bodies.

If I did a little experiment in January of last year and I said, okay,

what if we met all of the climate goals?

What would Earth look like?

Now, I'm not going to push back against them.

I'll just say

what would if you just zero

carbon.

We're only at 240 parts per million right now, which historically is low.

We're on the low end right now.

If we were to meet those goals, they want us to go back to, we would meet the goals, it would push it back to about

236 parts per million is what they're looking at.

180 parts per million is dangerously low.

So there, and this isn't something like you can just take a dial and adjust a little bit here and there.

They are pushing, if we were to meet those goals, Earth would have,

by the way, they're also pushing for global cooling of 10 degrees, global average.

We're at 56 Fahrenheit global average right now.

They want 46 degrees.

The last time on Earth we had those kinds of temperatures and that kind of CO2 was the Pleistocene era.

It was not good for us.

It's not good for life.

It's not good for humans.

Who are they?

They are

Why would they want to do such a self-destructive thing?

Do they know this?

Do they know this data?

Well, let's break it down.

Let's step through this.

Okay, let's step through this.

Climate.

Yes.

If we were to meet those climate goals, it's not good for us.

All right.

Let's put that.

As a human species.

As a human species.

Let's put that over here.

Okay.

We're being pushed.

for war, and I think you can see that.

And the nations of the earth that have the capability for war are waging that war.

And what's happening is we're depleting our resources as nations.

We are, and I just did a search on this the other night.

The superpowers are dangerously low on weapons and on the ability, humans, to fight in those wars.

If Earth ever needed to fight, we don't have what we need right now.

So our weapons are being depleted.

Okay, let's put that over here.

Now there's a concerted effort to break the social bonds that have held us together as societies, as nations, as communities.

And that is working very successfully.

We're breaking down those borders.

That's not good for us.

That's not good for anyone.

Now

you look at the transhuman movement to replace us with technology, with machines, to

debilitate our ability for critical thinking, our ability for imagination, for creativity, for all the reasons that we just talked about, use it or lose it.

When we give our power away to that technology, we're not the best version of ourselves.

That's not good for us.

None of those are good for us.

So if I said that to you,

what would you say to me?

Who would that be good for?

If it's not good for us, who's it good for?

Satan.

Well, now is where you go back and you look at all those ancient texts.

You look at the,

and depending on what language you're using, if you're looking at Sumerian texts,

this world

was never ours to begin with, is what those texts say.

And

there is a good argument that can be made that Earth is being modified in ways that are not necessarily good for us.

Who are they good for?

There's a whole conversation that we can have.

you know around around that

so so you think climate is a part of this whole agenda of control?

I do.

Yeah.

Well there's a lot of people.

And it's not just my opinion.

I think the evidence supports that because why would we want to push this planet back?

I mean, NASA says we're greener now than we have been in 20 years.

Why would we want to push this planet back to

to the environment of the Pleistocene era?

Well, we want to have control over things all the time.

And when you see certain areas that become too hot for a certain kind of agriculture or things change or certain lakes dry up, there's things like that that happen that people freak out about because we want control.

That's why we want to bring animals back from extinction.

Like

we want control over everything around us because it makes us feel better.

But the problem with this one is you're getting people that are saying we're going to lower the Earth temperature.

Like you didn't, we didn't vote on that.

Like just

because it's your idea and you people are moving in this direction, you have so much money, you're making a decision for literally eight people.

These are unelected officials.

It's nuts.

It's nuts that they think they could spray things in the sky to reflect particles, reflective particles, to dull out the sun and lower the temperature of the earth.

That's an insane notion.

And especially if we're moving in the cooler anyway.

But all of this, I mean, so now we've identified these things,

I think it's useless to be angry.

I think what we do is we recognize, Joe, that all of these applications of technology are a reflection of the way we've been conditioned to think about ourselves.

When we wake up to become the best version of ourselves, then we recognize it makes sense to go clean and green.

It makes sense to grow our food differently.

It makes sense to have different kinds of energy because we recognize our relationship to ourselves and the world around us.

Right, not because we're being manipulated.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And this could be done the right way.

Like the real issue that we have as a society, one of the, not the, but war is obviously the, but one of the big ones is pollution.

Like, that is undeniable.

Oh, yeah.

When you see, like, what's going on in India with some of those rivers where it's just, the entire river is just choked up with plastic.

I've been there.

I've seen that.

That is insane that as

a human race that we allow that.

That's insane.

But then you look at places like, is it Singapore, Jamie, that we watched that video where it was fascinating there,

I believe it's Singapore,

where they have like the most sophisticated recycling program, like unbelievably efficient.

And they take that stuff and use it to pave the roads.

They burn things down, specific materials.

They have, I mean, it's an insane job they do of taking the garbage.

So we know it's possible.

It is possible.

So everything we're talking about is a consequence of what happens when we give our humanness away and we believe that we are a flawed species and that we need something outside of ourselves to be the best version of ourselves or that we believe we're powerless so we say to someone else, fix it and make it better.

We're now, right now, and the AI is driving this conversation, we are at the point where we are

being asked by the conditions of the world to accept the deep truth of what it means to be human.

And in that humanness, when we accept our ability that there's a part of us that doesn't live in here, what that means is the more that we can honor

the antenna, the gift of the body to access that, we become healthier, we become the best version of ourselves, we begin to live differently.

We begin to eat differently, we begin to recycle differently, we use energy differently.

because we're living in the world a reflection of the new honor and respect that we have for the gift of our bodies.

And nobody's telling our young kids anything like this.

No.

We have to protect our children.

It would help everybody just to think that way.

It would help everybody.

No matter what you're trying to do with life.

Well, this is, but the AI right now is the tip of the spear.

This is what they're using, they, again,

the powers that be.

Because we're so close, Joe, for the first time in a very long time, on a mass level to awakening to what it means to be human.

There are pockets that are coming together, and we're saying no, no, to war.

We're saying, I think in this generation, I think you will see us walk away from the use of war to solve our problems.

What happens if they throw a war and nobody goes?

I think you're going to see that happen because people are saying this isn't right.

This isn't right.

Well, that's a very powerful message, and I hope you're right.

But if there was one thing that I feel like most people would bet on, it's that there's always going to be war.

I think

not the way we're seeing it.

Not the way we're seeing it right now.

This ties into the disclosure conversation.

Because when you talk to the people behind the scenes in disclosure, we obviously...

I don't think anybody

would have a problem with a flying saucer.

in an Air Force hangar somewhere.

We've seen it in movies where, you know, I don't think anybody's surprised, but I don't think anybody's got a problem with

a gray alien, you know, in an Air Force conference room somewhere.

But the implications, if we've had this relationship for so long,

we know they didn't get here on a Chevy V-8 engine.

I mean, they've got some pretty high-tech.

And what the part of the implications are

that

we are being asked to step up

to become a different species to

meet

the intelligence that is being offered to us.

And

there are different forms of that intelligence.

Some of that intelligence is prone to war, and that's not the ones that we want to

necessarily.

That's so hard to believe, that they get so far they could travel from other places in the universe, yet they still have war.

That's the the disappointing thing for me.

And so this is where we go back to the ancient texts.

They begin with a war in the heavens, or what the Bible calls, you know, the fall.

And the war is what destroyed a planet in our solar system.

And I think Randall's probably talked about that.

Well, that's the kooky theory about Mars, too, right?

Mars used to have an atmosphere.

It doesn't anymore.

And they believe that

there is

a compelling argument that could be made for war destroying.

I think when we get there and we see the archaeological remnants that are there, I think we'll have the answer to that.

But that is scary, isn't it, Joe, that you have to be so advanced and still

have the

still

allow differences to be so great that the only way to solve them is to hurt one another and destroy one another.

But it also makes for great science fiction movies.

Because without the war in space, you have no Star Trek.

You know, you have no Star Wars.

Well, maybe this is where we break that cycle.

Maybe we wake up our humanists and we accept the power of human divinity and we accept what it means and we imbue our children with a deep sense of

and a healthy sense that there's something very special about them worth preserving so that they care about themselves and then that begins to inform the way we live in the world.

We would be living in a very, very different world.

I think you're right, and I think you saying that is very important because it gets that word out there and people start to consider it and think about it.

And I think that's the only way people find these things is for people like you come out and have these conversations and spark thoughts in people's head.

Like maybe I'm thinking and behaving and living the wrong way.

And maybe we could just become more united and more positive and recognize this incredible gift that we have of this life.

But look with the science.

See, the science, the science is so compartmentalized.

And I saw this when I was working even in the industry.

So a discovery is made in genetics

and it stays in that genetics box and it gets published in some obscure.

The new way of thinking is looking at humans from an IT perspective.

So there are journals like the Journal of Soft Computing.

I didn't even talk about that.

The Journal of Soft Computing has just come out and said that human DNA, three-dimensional human DNA, is a fractal antenna.

Now, what's that mean?

An antenna tunes to a signal.

A fractal antenna tunes to a vast array of signals across the broad spectrum.

We've got 50 trillion of them in our bodies, and the journal is saying that, but who reads that?

Who's reading the Journal of Soft Computing?

Thank God you are.

Who has a beautiful hard-bound copy of the Journal of Soft Computing next to their bed like I do?

Well, the fact that you know it, you just told people.

Now people know.

Yeah, so it's a very different way of thinking.

but if we can begin seeing ourselves and really I think the greatest task that we're cherished that we're that we're tasked with right now is to cherish

and honor and care for the gift of the human body because I believe it is a gift because there was an intervention that created the mutations that give us what we have today.

We don't know who or what, but we're not the product of natural evolution.

And until we understand fully what that is, Joe, why would we want to give that away to technology before we even know what it means to be human?

And once we give it away, we can never go back.

This is how you lose a species.

And I think we're worth preserving.

And that's my message.

I'm advocating for our humanness, for our divinity, for our love,

because that's what sets us apart from all our forms of life.

And I think we're worth preserving.

I agree with you 100%.

And I appreciate you very much.

And thank you very much for coming on here.

It was a lot of fun.

And let's do it again.

Are you saying we're finished?

Yeah, we're done.

We are at almost three hours.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

Is that crazy?

All right, Joe.

Well, thank you for that.

I really enjoyed it.

Thank you.

You know, thank you.

A just an amazing listener.

And I appreciate the long format and the opportunity to flesh out these ideas in their entirety.

So thank you for that.

Well, it's my pleasure.

Thank you for being interesting so I could just listen.

But it's, you know, I only have people on the podcast that I'm interested in.

So when I saw a lot of your your stuff online, I'm like, this guy's fascinating.

Well, thank you.

And it was great.

I really enjoyed it.

Thank you.

I look forward to our next.

Thank you so much.

All right.

All right.

Thank you.

We'll do it against October.

Bye.

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