1182: Contractual Cuddles Leave Roommate Befuddled | Feedback Friday

This episode is sponsored in part by Vital Proteins.

Let's face it, once you hit 30, things start changing, start to feel a little different.

Turns out your body's natural collagen production, key for healthy hair, skin, nails, bones, and joints, drops about one percent per year after 30.

Vital Proteins helps tackle that very issue.

They are the number one collagen peptide brand in the U.S., and their ingredients are backed by science.

Think about that.

Helping you feel and look your best.

It's unflavored, which means you can easily mix it into just about anything personally.

I actually toss it in my coffee.

I know that sounds weird, but it doesn't taste like anything.

It just, just, if it's not simple, it's not happening for me and just goes right in.

They've even got these convenient stick packs for when you're traveling or running around this summer.

Bottom line, if you want to stay active, look good, keep doing the things you love, give vital proteins a shot.

It's an effortless addition to your routine.

And the key is, of course, consistency.

Get 20% off by going to vitalproteins.com.

Enter our promo code Jordan at checkout.

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

Support for this podcast comes from Progressive, America's number one motorcycle insurer.

Did you know riders who switch and save with Progressive save nearly $180 per year?

That's a whole new pair of riding gloves.

And more.

Quote today.

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates.

National average 12-month savings of $178 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between October 2022 and September 2023.

Potential savings will vary.

Welcome to Feedback Friday.

I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger.

As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my glossy bro, with that vinyasa flow, Gabriel Mazrahi.

This humidity is doing my skin a lot of favors.

You are right about that.

Also, where are you recording from?

It's like a really nice cave.

It looks really nice, but it sounds like you're in some, you're Donald Trump's bathroom.

I know.

It's like I'm recording from Tora Bora today.

There's a distinct dearth of rugs in this apartment that I'm staying in.

So I apologize for the

echo.

Yeah, we don't film these episodes, but basically the only rug that seems to be in the whole room is, of course, on the wall.

And that is how you know that you're staying in an Airbnb on the Nicoya Peninsula.

Yeah, carpet?

Sure, on the wall only, though.

On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.

During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, former jihadis, drug traffickers, arms dealers, national security advisors.

This week, we had Jefferson Fisher, author of The Next Conversation.

He's a trial lawyer, super interesting guy.

Talks about persuasion, communication, some amazing tactics that will help get you deep rapport and connection with others.

Like I said, he's a trial attorney.

So the episode is punctuated and illustrated with all sorts of really interesting examples from his law practice and personal life.

I think you'll like this one.

It's kind of a good hang, if you know what I mean.

I think that you will learn a lot about these topics and put them into practice, even if you're not a soulless lawyer like me.

On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, and take this traveling Lydia show into a new era as we dispense wisdom from two very different time zones.

So Gabe, this is the first episode we're recording while you're traveling.

I know you're in Costa Rica.

Yeah.

How far away are you from building a compound for your breath work cult in Costa Rica?

I don't know, like a couple years.

Still a ways off.

Yeah, we're good.

Don't worry about it.

It's not going to interrupt the show yet.

Good.

So yoga teacher training, you just wrapped up a few days ago.

What is that?

I mean, it's a lot of stretching.

Fine.

Tell me everything.

Yeah, Yeah, it's just stretching, really, all day.

Oh, man, dude.

I am, I'm honestly, Jordan, I'm still kind of reeling from yoga teacher training.

It was incredible.

It was very intense, but it was, it was so eye-opening and it was so fun.

It's hard to explain.

I mean, first of all, it's rigorous, man.

It's two and a half weeks, 200 hours of training.

You are waking up at 5 a.m.

every day.

You're doing yoga from six to eight in the morning.

You're in class basically like on and off until 7.30 at night

with a couple breaks.

How long is this training?

It was 16 days.

For a guy who can barely touch his toes, this is a nightmare for me.

A nightmare.

It was slightly nightmarish in the beginning because you're like getting on the schedule and you're dealing with this new place and waking up at five and you're having to be at the dining hall at 5.30 for your lemon water and

so stressful.

But dude, the place that I went to is this really dope yoga teacher training center in the jungle in this small beach town in Costa Rica.

What's it called?

It's called Puraveda.

Oh, okay.

So, like, the thing that Costa Ricans say all the time?

It's a play on that because they say puravida, but this is

pura veda, like the Vedas, which are the texts that yoga comes from.

Oh, I see.

Okay.

So, this is a yoga academy, or is it a training school for teachers?

And then, what do you do with that?

I mean, you're not going to become a yoga teacher, right?

You're just, it was just fun.

That's not really in the plans.

It wasn't the reason that I went.

I just wanted to, you know, like deepen my practice.

Everybody breathe a sigh of relief.

Gabe's not going to leave to go teach yoga.

You might want to to do my class before you decide whether I should be teaching.

One thing I loved about this place is that they had you practice teaching almost, I want to say day two or day three.

I see.

So you are really thrown into it and you have to lead classes almost from the get-go, which is kind of remarkable because by the end of the training, we were all teaching one-hour classes.

And I was like, two weeks ago, I could not have...

even begun to cue this stuff.

Wow.

Side note, teaching yoga, or at least teaching yoga well, so much harder than you think.

It's incredibly difficult.

And just to like cue the students and also to keep an eye on the students and know where you've been and know where you're going and keep your lefts and your rights straight, which, by the way, is the hardest part.

Oh, right, right.

Like, put your left hand.

No, no, you're sorry.

You're right.

Your other left hand on your right knee.

Nope.

Sorry.

You're all right.

Like right knee, turn to the right, look to the left.

Yes.

Yes.

We already did the left side.

Now we got to get the right.

But then when you're switching sides, you go to the back of the mat.

Everything's reversed.

And holding all of that in your mind and making sure that you're hitting all the things you need to hit and still being present to the class and being spontaneous and alive.

Like, it is hard, man.

It's like his own form of yoga and mindfulness, I suppose.

Truly, dude.

Truly.

It's so meta-broke.

But I got to say, man, the whole experience, like, it was sort of like being in the military, but also being in the white lotus.

Without the stabbiness of the whole thing, hopefully.

Without the stabbiness and without like everyone complaining about the food.

Because the food was.

epic and everyone was so happy to be there.

But like, it was just very enlivening.

It was very fun, but it was demanding, man.

And it's sustainable and you get used to it.

You start going to bed at 9 p.m., 9.30 p.m.

because otherwise you're wrecked the next day.

But it was so funny because I went down there and just timing wise, it was kind of unfortunate.

I had to work on a pitch for this movie that I'm pitching for a job right now.

And then I also had to do a rewrite that I thought was done, but we got another round of notes on this other script.

So I'm going to class and then during my breaks, I'm running back to my casita five minutes from

the place and working for hours a day.

Yeah, throwing yourself into like New York, LA grind mode for 20 minutes and then running back to yoga training.

Ugh, no, thank you.

I was like, am I the worst yoga student on earth right now?

Or am I multitasking guru style?

I was asking myself the same question because I was like, oh, this is requiring, this is requiring a lot of drishti right now, a lot of focus, because I'm going to have to toggle between these two parts of my life and be really into the thing when I'm doing it and then put it away and go back to class and be fully present for that.

It was kind of amazing.

It was a good exercise.

It just wasn't really what I imagined.

Sure.

I pictured going to yoga teacher training.

This seems like one of those experiences where you're just so immersed and every day is so packed.

It feels like a week.

And then you come home and your brain and your heart grew three sizes, but you're also like, okay, I realize now that I know nothing.

Yeah.

There's so much more to understand.

That's kind of how I feel after Wayfinders.

And I've talked about them on the show before, those retreats.

You're like, totally.

Okay, I've done so much, but a lot of it is like scratching new surfaces that I didn't know were there.

And now I have a ton of stuff to dive into.

Totally.

I think it's going to take me a few weeks to integrate everything we learned at Yoga Teacher Training.

Also, when you do yoga teacher training, you realize that you are barely scratching the surface of what yoga is.

It is such a huge discipline and tradition and system, whatever you want to call it.

The physical practice of yoga is actually the smallest part of yoga.

It's one of the eight limbs within one of the four main ways of yoga.

So, what we in the West do as yoga, which is mostly a physical practice with some, you know, little spiritual sprinklings worked in here and there, if you zoom out, it's a really, really small piece of the, the overall picture.

And so we spent time with the philosophy and some of the texts.

And I mean, again, in two and a half weeks, you can only go so deep.

We really just got the bare bones, but it was really cool.

I felt like I was back in school again and just expanding so much every day.

And then now when I go to the mat, the practice means so much more.

It was one of the best things I've ever done, I think, yoga teacher training.

I'm very happy about it.

So even though your travels look pretty lit on Instagram, this is still Feedback Friday.

We got to get to that do's, man.

I know.

We got to transition into

downward doozasana.

That's right.

Exactly.

With a big old inhale, because you know we're setting up for some juicy kanundrasana.

My new favorite post.

That's right.

Feedback Friday, your weekly conundrasana after a hard week of dealing with your own problems.

Can I tell you, before you go in, though, I have to tell you a couple really quick stories.

Go for it.

I just have to tell you about this stuff.

People are like, God, I've just put the phone away and I have to get it out and fast forward again.

All right, fine.

Go for it.

First of all, so you know that I packed for, I don't know, six to nine months of travel.

Because you're moving.

Yeah.

Yeah, because I don't have a home.

You're homeless.

Yes.

I'm homeless.

And also, I had to bring all my recording equipment, which was its own suitcase.

So I flew into Liberia Airport and then I had six or seven hours at the airport until the shuttle for the place was ready.

So I used that time to finish some of my work.

I met a few other people from training and the other people in my group, their flights land hours after mine.

And I start to meet them outside for the shuttle.

And they're all women, young women.

And they roll up with like a carry-on and a backpack.

And old Gaby has like one huge oversized heavy suitcase, another heavy carry-on and a backpack.

High maintenance gay.

It was so funny, dude.

Like they were very nice about it.

They were like, what's with all the stuff, man?

I was like, I'm moving.

Okay.

It's like, I was like going out of my way to make excuses, but I literally felt like the YTT princess in the group.

Right.

And these girls were just traveling light.

It was so funny.

I'm surprised they didn't pull you aside and be like, can we talk about your materialism?

Sometimes it's good not to have all your creature comforts as you make like a French press tea with it.

You think that I brought my French press with me?

I did not.

I mean, I don't know.

It was just mostly the Starlink and the.

You gotta see.

Excuse me.

I had to bring up my own Starlink internet talk to me when you can't post this on instagram shelly then we'll see who packed too much crap speaking of the other personalities in the group there was a there was one girl in our group she was a recent college grad and um man i could tell you so many cool stories about these people it was really funny you bond hard with these people even if you have nothing in common when you do something like this you get really close but there was one day where we were coming back to class it was about 2 30 p.m we're all setting up our mats for the class to begin and one of the girls this recent college grad, is in the shower.

And the shower is located right next to the yoga shala, which is where we learn and practice every morning.

Okay.

And she's running a little bit late.

So she's in the shower.

And then we hear the shower turn off.

And then like 30 seconds later, we hear a blood-curling scream.

Oh my God.

And the teacher, Sonia, was like, is everything okay?

What's going on?

And she's like, I got bitten by a scorpion.

That was a little bit of a draw.

And she starts crying, which I understand because I hear it's very painful.

I'm sure.

And then she comes into class and she's still kind of like sniffling and sobbing a little bit.

And we're all just like, oh my God, are you okay?

Like, what's going on?

And Sonia goes, what happened exactly?

And she's like, I got bitten twice.

It was in my towel.

And she put the towel around her and bit her.

And she's like, where did it bite you?

And she goes, the worst place you can imagine.

Oh, my God.

A little labia chomp.

Ouch.

Oh, dude.

What an image.

That's horrible.

But yeah.

Oh, man.

This poor girl.

So for the rest of the afternoon, she was was like, I'm not, I can't practice.

I'm just going to sit here with my olive vera and my ice.

It was so intense.

Oh, man.

Yikes.

Scorpion bite in the jungle happens to me straight on a business class flight home after that.

Straight to the centurion lounge.

Sir, do you need more ice for your old-fashioned?

No, but I do need more ice for my left testicle because I got bitten by a scenic.

The whole plane would know I got bitten by a scorpion.

Just in case anyone's curious, I'm icing my left testicle because I get bit by a scorpion in the jungle.

Ask me anything.

I mean, I felt really bad for her, but I also was like, you have the best story of anybody here on this trip so far.

Wow.

That was pretty lit.

But, dude, I could tell you so many stories about Yoga Teacher training, but yeah, we got to get the news cruise because you don't want it to depart without us.

That's it.

We can always jump back into these next week or the week after.

I'm sure you're not done talking about it processing at all.

Now muste.

Now must go on to the next section.

What is the first thing out of the mailbag?

Hi, Jordan and Gabe.

I'm a 32-year-old single male and homeowner with a stable job.

My home has four bedrooms and I currently have a female roommate.

Let's call her Susan.

Susan has been a friend of mine since high school.

We started hanging out at parties and on trips, but nothing romantic ever crossed my mind.

She's divorced and single, but I only saw her as a friend, even when we moved in together.

Last month, Susan, four friends, and I went to Las Vegas.

We had a blast, and on one of those days, Susan and I ended up cuddling, something we had never done.

It was a nice feeling and moment for both of us.

That night, we went to a club and I ended up introducing a guy I met to our group.

He and Susan danced together, they ended up going back to his hotel, and you can imagine what happened.

A week later, we spoke about the cuddling situation and we agreed that we both had felt something but were not ready to start a relationship because of what had happened with that guy.

We agreed to take it slow.

Part of this agreement was to cuddle a few times during the week.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick, but okay, agreement.

Interesting word.

It's a cuddle contract, man.

I mean, not that that's a real thing.

What are the T's and C's on that one?

No, no bedroom eyes and shared spaces and like guaranteed spooning three times a week and every other Sunday?

Sounds very sexy.

Yeah.

So I'm guessing he meant that they just agreed to put a limit around the cuddling.

Yeah, it's just strange.

Like if you want to cuddle with somebody, you cuddling, brah.

Ain't no stopping that roommate lust.

I don't know.

We need an agreement.

We had already planned to attend EDC, so before going, I confessed that I was developing a crush on on her.

We agreed to go as friends, but not to fool around with anyone else.

Oh, this is weird.

Okay, so another agreement.

What is going on?

A lot of agreeing going on in this story.

Again, I'm not trying to belittle this guy at all, so I hope that's not the feeling I'm showing off here, but something is not making sense to me here.

They agreed to go as friends.

Hey, fine, that's great.

It clarifies things.

But then they also can't hook up with anyone else.

So they keep things nice and tidy, but then they also cannot have their own fun.

That just doesn't sound right.

Kind of sounds like the worst of both worlds to me.

100%.

I think what's happening is that they're both a bit confused and scared.

Yes.

And they're also trying to protect their feelings or egos or whatever.

Exactly.

And each other's feelings, but to what end?

I'm just not, I'm not sure I understand the strategy here.

Side note, EDC is dope.

I went years ago, I actually ran into some show fans in line, which is great because I was like three sheets to the wind.

You like EDC?

This is so confusing.

Yeah.

I love

expected this.

I love stuff like this.

Yeah.

In fact, Jen was like, hey, do you want to go to, I think it was like a TS Doe show?

And I was like, nah, I'd rather go to EDC because I want to party for like three days or like all night.

I don't want to go to a show that's five hours long because then what am I supposed to do for the next five hours?

Anyway, there's a story in there.

But like Drew Carey said on our interview.

He also loves EDC, by the way, but he doesn't do drugs because, and I quote, because I'm the host of the Price is Right.

So that's my line as well.

I love EDC, but of course I can't do what everyone else is doing there because I'm the host of the Jordan Harbinger show.

Oh, sure.

Like he's the host of The Price is Right.

So he couldn't possibly be doing

top shelf molly.

That's right,

no, exactly.

It is just $8 bottles of water all night long.

So he goes on, I upheld my part of the deal, but she didn't.

Oh, boy, here we go, man.

On the second day of our trip, I noticed she was texting someone and was planning on meeting him outside our campsite, the same guy from the previous month in Las Vegas.

After her side quest, she didn't even mention that she was gone and acted as if nothing had happened.

I got upset, but I decided not to say anything and ruin the trip for our group, so I just enjoyed EDC.

Oh, man, tail is old as time.

You hate to see it.

Gabe, wait, how old are they again?

Is this 20s thing?

32.

Interesting.

Okay, alright.

Continue.

It's been a week now, and I haven't confronted her about the situation.

We haven't cuddled either.

Ah, breach.

I feel a little hurt and confused.

I don't hate her, but I feel lied to and used.

But I also still like her as a roommate, and I would hate for our situation to force her to leave.

Am I wrong for feeling this way?

Should I address the situation to finally move on?

Signed, a lovelorn landlord, going back to the drawing board to resolve this disaccord over a fling that was barely explored.

Woof.

Okay, interesting situation.

So, ugh, man, I am sorry that you feel hurt and you feel used.

I don't know about the used part used for cuddles.

I get you that you're confused.

I myself have been there once or twice as a young buck.

I know how unpleasant this can be.

It sucks not to know where you stand with somebody and get mixed signals.

And these are mixed signals.

I'm not going to gaslight you on that.

But it also sucks not to be chosen.

I know I was giving you a little bit of a tough time a moment ago, but I really do feel for you.

So now, especially you weren't chosen in favor of a guy you introduced to the group.

So that sucks even more.

So look, you're not wrong for feeling this way.

You feel how you feel.

Susan has put you in a position where you're especially vulnerable and uncertain whether she meant to do that or not.

I got to say, you also have both created this situation in an interesting way.

You, by expressing your interest in her, but kind of qualifying or moderating your intentions with her, probably overly formalizing something that could have unfolded a little bit more organically, not communicating your feelings as well as you could have.

And Susan, by obviously not being totally clear with you about her feelings, what she really wants right now, and by not being totally transparent about other parts of her life, like this fling with this other guy that she's sort of trying to hide from you, basically not giving you all the information that you needed to know where you stand with her and make the best decision for yourself.

That's exactly right.

But to be fair, that does take some time to learn how to do.

It takes practice.

Okay, yeah, it does.

That's why I was like, what are they?

22?

No, they're 32.

My unvarnished opinion here is that they're old enough to stop playing these games, but they're also only just getting to that phase as a grown-up where you can say to somebody, hey, look, this is where I'm at.

Where are you at?

Let's be open with each other so nobody gets hurt.

I mean, I think Jen was the first relationship where I actually said stuff like that, or maybe the one right before Jen, where I was like, look, I don't want to just be friends with you.

I want a romantic relationship.

And this girl was like, I just kind of like sleeping with you.

And I was like, eh, it's not enough for me.

And we went our separate ways.

And I was like, wow, that felt really good.

Even though it didn't work out.

I was like, wow, I just said what I wanted and it didn't work.

And then we just like, we don't have to throw each other's clothes out of the window.

This is amazing.

I mean, I feel like I only learned how to do that in the last few years.

And it could be a little bit scary to be really honest with somebody about where you are and what you want.

But then you do it a couple of times and you're like, my God, this is so much easier.

Why wasn't I doing this all along?

Exactly.

Look, I want to be fair to our friend here, though.

He's her friend and her potential lover and her landlord.

And he's being thoughtful and sensitive about that and i really appreciate that because he's not like how do i evict her so that i get back at her without her you know suing me i mean come on so he's being pretty cool about the whole thing right and he's thinking about her living situation too yes i i agree with you and he doesn't want to lose her as a roommate that matters too so he is in a weird place and it sounds like he doesn't want to lose her as a friend potentially which is kind of nice maybe i'm reading into that too much i get why this whole thing makes things even more complicated.

It's all coming from a good place.

Although the second you start cuddling with your roommate slash tenant, you do take a risk.

That either goes brilliantly or it blows up in your face.

Trust me, I'm on, I'm on those subreddits too.

I'm not saying it was necessarily a mistake.

If there was something fun and meaningful to explore and you're both feeling it, great.

But you got to go into a situation like this with eyes wide open.

Like, are you friends with benefits and she can go and do whatever she wants and you can get a girlfriend?

If that's what's happening, cool.

If you're just cuddling, fine.

But if you're just cuddling and then you're going to be jealous of a guy that she's hooking up with, this ish is not going to work, dude.

So do you think you should talk to her or what?

What's the move?

I'm torn, honestly.

Like, there's a part of me going, my guy, read the room.

She's hooking up with somebody else.

She's not telling you about it.

I'm not saying she's not into you.

I think she's intrigued by you, was willing at least to explore it.

Clearly, she wants to have her freedom or she doesn't want to be held down if you're not going to sort of like shit or get off the pot.

Although it's such early days, they're not even ready to discuss that yet.

But you're right.

She is showing him with her actions what she wants.

And part of his job is to interpret those correctly and then act accordingly.

Yes, which probably, in my opinion, means backing off a little bit, enjoying some of that freedom yourself, licking your wounds, just letting the situation mellow a little bit before you confront her, which you should not do in my opinion.

But then another part of me is going, yeah, you should talk to her as a friend and as her landlord because you guys have gotten tangled up here.

And it would probably help your relationship if you just put some things on the table and got clear with each other.

My advice there is I would not make this conversation primarily about like, do you like me?

Do you still want to cuddle?

It bummed me out that you hooked up with that guy.

All of that is legit, but it's going to, it's stuff for you to work through on your own, man.

You're going to look like such a weenie doing that and it's not necessary.

It's not going to help you.

I think this conversation should be more like, look, our friendship and our living situation means a lot to me.

I want to protect them above all else.

I don't want you to feel like you have to leave because of what happened.

I confess I'm a little confused about where we stand.

If you want to clarify that with each other, let's do it.

I think it would be helpful for both of us.

But I also know that we don't owe each other anything.

We're not in a committed relationship.

We're free to do whatever we want.

So going forward, if we continue to explore things romantically, maybe we can be a little bit more open with each other along the way, just so there's no confusion.

Something like that.

You can find your own words.

And then you have to be willing to live up to that promise.

If you can't, if it's too hard, then you should not get involved with this girl.

You cannot sort of like have her as your cuddle partner and then she never hooks up with anybody until you're ready to pull the trigger.

That's unrealistic and unfair.

The point is, I think this is more about how you communicate with each other and how you guys try to manage each other, like with these little agreements.

I just don't recommend you do that anymore.

For sure.

Because if you know where you stand with each other, you don't need that stuff.

You either give each other the freedom to do what you want, you know what this is, or you organically explore things.

And if there's a real connection and you guys want to keep going, then I don't know.

Dot, dot, dot, you'll probably stop seeing other people naturally or you'll decide what the relationship should look like.

I don't think you need the formalization so much.

If they had cuddled and then she was like, I like you, and he's like, I like you.

And then they were like, let's take things slowly like they said they were going to do.

And then they started like making out.

she probably wouldn't be hooking up with a random dude she met at a club in vegas maybe not though especially if she's camping with you she'd be hooking up with you but if you're like i want to keep you it sounds to me man and again i'm putting words in this guy's mouth and these might not be fair but it sounds like he's like i want you kind of on the back burner because i like the snuggle thing and i want to feel like you like me and i kind of like you but i don't actually want to do any of the other harder stuff that's involved in having a relationship because I'm not ready to do that.

And it's like, she's clearly not on the same page.

Yeah, I think that's really what's happening.

I think their feelings are just not totally in sync.

Right.

That's what's happening.

Yeah.

And they have different interests and different options.

And the way that he is showing up is also maybe giving her some pause to know whether to pursue.

So whatever you do, man, keep doing it thoughtfully, kindly, respectfully, but also in a way that doesn't make your problems her problems.

I think this is a situation where Susan's going to need you to lead.

Because my sense is that she doesn't quite have the tools that you're about to develop, some combination of talking and reading the room.

And that's going to clear things right up.

I know it hurts, but it's all part of growing up and I feel patronizing saying that to a 32-year-old man, but it's true.

I mean, I would say that to a 40-year-old man.

In a few months, you're going to look back at this chapter and I think you will literally laugh because it taught you some important stuff.

And it's so much easier to handle, I think, than you realize.

Good luck.

Jordan, I know this is not the point of his letter, but camping at EDC sounds like a minor nightmare to me.

Yeah.

I mean, when I was in my 20s, maybe, and I did go to Burning Man and we camped and it was cool, but you could not pay me enough to go to EDC camping now.

I'm actually still kind of shocked that you liked it so much.

I just didn't see that coming.

What is the deal?

Camping?

My brother in Christ.

I stayed at the Bellagio, okay?

First of all, and it's like hours of traffic to get in there.

No, I took the Uber helicopter thing in and out.

I am too old,

way too old to be camping in a hundred-degree weather near a racetrack in Vegas.

Now I understand why you love EDC.

Okay, here I was picturing you sleeping in like an REI-rented sleeping bag 10 feet from Susan's low-key dick appointment.

No, thank you.

Admittedly, it is much more fun when you don't have to camp in 110-degree heat and you can leave whenever you want.

I'm at the pool during the day.

I'm getting those scammy IV bag drips of vitamins and stuff.

It's a different experience for me.

Like my dinner before EDC is at Joe's Stone Crab and I'm like getting a mixology thing and eating king crab legs.

I am not in traffic waiting.

I'm not ordering funnel cake from the stand by Teustos.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay, it's such a different image.

No, I am not listening to dubstep next to one of those fireblowing things waiting in line for chicken fingers.

No, sir.

I didn't realize that you were having this accession experience of EDC.

You were like rolling in and out like one of the people on, what's that show about the traders on Showtime?

Oh, God.

I don't know.

It's just me and Drew Carey definitely not doing anything that would be against our contract because he's the host of the Prices Right and I'm the host of the Jordan Harbor Show.

And now we have a cuddle agreement that we need to honor.

So snuggle up with the amazing sponsors that support this show.

We'll be right back.

People love dogs on account of how nice, soft, and fluffy they are.

But did you know there's a credit card called Care Credit and it's like a dog in every single way.

Okay, it's nothing like a dog.

But you can use it to pay for things like vet care for your dog or dental and vision care for yourself at over 270,000 locations nationwide.

Care Credit offers flexible financing for health and wellness for pets and people, which actually makes it better than a dog dog because dogs don't even have flexible financing.

Take that dog out.

Visit CareCredit.com to apply and find a location near you, subject to credit approval.

You know that feeling when everything just works perfectly?

That's what the MX Master Series by Logitech is all about.

From precision mice and customizable keyboards to crystal clear webcams, these tools are designed to help you work smarter.

Whether you're flying through tasks with hyper-fast scrolling or seamlessly switching between devices, they make every project feel effortless.

Ready to upgrade?

Use code MX25Off.

That's MX250FF at checkout on Logitech to get 25% off MX products.

The future isn't coming.

It's already here.

While others were waiting to see what might happen, PAX8 was out there building a smarter cloud marketplace, AI-driven tools, and ongoing education.

Everything MSPs and small businesses need to lead the future.

Stop waiting and start building at PAX8.com.

That's PAXtheNumber8.com.

If you like this episode of Feedback Friday and you find our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do.

Take a moment and support our amazing sponsors.

All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

If that doesn't work, email us, jordan at jordanharbinger.com.

I'll dig up the code for you.

Thank you for supporting those who support the show.

Now, back to Feedback Friday.

Okay, what's next?

Dear handsome boy, number one, and Phileas Fogg.

Wait, what's that?

Am I supposed to know what that is?

That's one of those literature things that's going to out me as being completely ignorant and undereducated.

I had to look it up too.

I thought I did not recognize this name.

So he's the main character in the book Around the World in 80 Days.

Did he travel with 16 bags too and Starlink internet?

They were probably trunks.

Yeah, like a foot locker.

You know those guys back then and like the colonial Brits would go to all these crazy places with like 32 trunks?

They're called foot lockers.

Oh, that's what a foot locker is.

They're called foot lockers.

It's basically a giant chest.

Yeah, instead of backpacks or suitcases or something reasonable, that's when they're like whacking their way through the jungle or someone else is doing that part for them and they're walking through with their like monocle in their boots and they're like, come on, checks, what's taking so long?

And there's like a bunch of shirtless dudes carrying 16 pairs of outerwear.

Like, don't get my smoking jacket wet, you ninkum poop.

They're knee-deep mud.

Because one of the trunks has like four of their dining tuxedos because they would have to uphold civilization when they were having dinner in the bush.

Right.

Yeah.

That was not me for the record, but the idea of me as a colonial British person in Liberia Airport is weirdly hitting close to him.

So the letter goes on.

I only had a sister growing up, and my 55-year-old brother-in-law is the brother I never had.

Seven months ago, he suffered a stroke and was not found for hours.

Oh, man.

It was very scary and very touch-and-go.

He had to have one-third of his skull removed to relieve pressure.

So his brain swells?

Yes.

I guess if you have a stroke, your brain swells, or maybe he just hit his head and his brain swelled.

That's so scary.

Yes, very intense.

Jeez.

Since that time, his wife, who's an Ivy League MD-PhD and the CEO of a pharmaceutical company, has acted in ways that defy explanation.

She significantly limited visitors when the stroke first happened and would only allow visitors to see him with her present.

After he was airlifted to one of the best hospitals in the country, she cut off most of his family of origin, two parents, eight siblings, seven spouses-in-law, from seeing him and stopped reporting on his condition.

She now controls every single aspect of his life.

No one except one brother saw him for four months.

He was later moved to a rehab center where much the same occurred.

Then he was moved to another facility.

No matter where he was, she required all visitors to be cleared by her.

She barely reports on his condition, but when she does, she tells people in their vacation community that he's in a coma.

Okay.

A friend didn't believe her, went to see him, and was thrown out.

Others in the community reported the same.

We have proof in writing of different statuses shared to different groups.

Then she went to court and had him declared legally incompetent.

She's declared health issues with him that we have proof never existed.

She says her husband spent 28 years protecting her from us.

She's never explained what that means.

She tells people he hates his parents, but before the stroke, he visited them three or four times a week to check in on them because they live independently in their 80s 10 minutes from their home.

My wife's parents got a lawyer involved and thanks to his initial efforts, we were finally told where he was.

It was more of a warehouse than a care facility.

We were all allowed to see him.

He still has a sense of humor.

He can hold conversations.

He remembers childhood.

He evaluates real estate deals, which is his career.

But the facility won't even clean or shave him.

His sister, who's a registered nurse, did that.

She also brought him new clothes, but the clothes went missing after a few days.

His wife took his iPhone and tablet.

A friend of his who works for Apple got him a custom iPad for stroke victims, but the password was changed, and then it disappeared soon after.

At best, he has Netflix.

He had to resort to watching Spider-Man 3 with Toby Maguire on Easter.

Oh my god.

Spider-Man 3.

Not even Spider-Man 1, the best one?

Or the new one with the guy from the social network?

Okay, that's the final straw.

Not being clean, not being changed, part of your skull missing, stealing your clothes, that's tough.

But they're making the guy watch Toby Maguire movies.

No, I kid, this is horrible.

I'm very sorry this is happening to you guys.

This is very sketchy, by the way.

Jeez.

This is very tragic, but your hot Toby McGuire take is so funny.

I did not know you hated him so much.

Yeah.

I know after talking with Molly Bloom and reading her book and stuff, I remember in her book, she talks about Toby McGuire and on the show she mentioned Toby McGuire.

That's episode 120, talk about throwback.

And then I met her randomly at an event and I was like, hey, Molly.

And then we started talking.

And she, I was like, I'm surprised you didn't get sued by Toby Maguire for what you said about him in the book.

And she's like, It's so much worse than what I put into print.

Oh, really?

Wow.

And I was like, oh, because what she said about him, from what I remember, was pretty bad.

Yes.

He did not sound like an easy customer.

And she's not the only one.

I mean, I lived in Hollywood for a while and you talk with people and you're like, who's the biggest dick that people think is great?

And it's like, that name just comes up over and over again.

Yeah.

Wow.

Okay.

And then it's like, who's who's nice that looks like a dick?

And it's like Robert Downey Jr.

What is the detail that she included in her book about him?

Was it that he brought his own scale or his own counter for the money or something?

Yeah.

Because he didn't trust her equipment.

Maybe, but then also like he would goad people who could not afford to lose into losing, like people who are way down and who were not rich and famous.

And he would take their money.

He just would give them no chance to like win it back.

And he would rub it in their face.

And everybody was like, can we not invite him anymore?

Like, he's a terrible, like other Hollywood people.

We were like, and apparently he was terrible to everyone except for Leonardo DiCaprio, basically, and other super famous people who could like affect his career.

But if you couldn't do anything for him, he was just like a complete POS.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Well, that tracks, doesn't it?

I mean, that's just what I've heard.

You know, I I have no personal experience.

It's not even my opinion.

It's other people's opinions as reported on this show.

Lawyers.

Anyway,

what are we talking about?

Wright, a man who had a stroke and is now being hidden from his family.

Whose life is also being ruined by Toby McGuire, apparently.

Yes.

After his craniotomy, he needed a third of his skull replaced.

Scans were required.

His wife would not schedule them.

It took legal action to force her to get them scheduled.

When asked if he wanted the scans for the skull, he responded, My wife is a good woman and takes care of me.

She's taking care of this.

What do you make of that, Jordan?

That's not totally scripted response at all.

Yeah, does that mean she took the phone and answered for him, or is he brainwashed?

Either way, it's bad news.

Either way, his brain is exposed.

Maybe it's easier to wash that way.

Sorry, that's a disgusting joke.

Wow.

No, that is vivid, though, isn't it?

It is.

I mean, the dude's missing a third of his skull.

If I was missing a part of my skull, I'd like to think the first question Jen would have is, when do you put that thing back together?

Close the door.

Right.

And meanwhile, she's like, I'm not scheduling the scans to see if he's going to live.

I, she might be rich with her CEO position, but something tells me she kind of doesn't want this guy to make it through this.

Let's get into that in a second because there are more details coming.

Yeah.

Seven months after his skull was removed, it was finally replaced.

He's now in recovery.

Then she hit him again.

We have no idea where he is now.

So he got moved because they knew where he was.

This is so scary and so weird.

Someone, maybe a nurse at the facility, maybe a neighbor, called Adult Protective Services.

But my sister-in-law used the investigation to tell her husband that we were suing her, that his family was victimizing her, and forcing their 17-year-old daughter to testify.

The APS investigator asked my brother-in-law why, as a 55-year-old man, he had no phone.

But he made excuses and nothing changed.

And the care facility is on her side.

He's not getting the physical therapy he needs to walk or function again.

We don't know what the family allegedly did to deserve this.

She's never said.

This is such a mess.

Your sister-in-law, man, she's clearly up to something, but what?

Is it just revenge and spite because she has some weird, inexplicable beef with your family?

Or is she a psycho-controlling weirdo?

I'm kind of getting the latter vibe.

I mean, both.

It's probably some porque no los dos, right?

I think it's a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B.

Or is she trying to isolate him for some other

purpose?

The sort of functional person in me who doesn't always assume everybody is a psychopathic narcissist is thinking this guy's got money and she doesn't really care about him that much and wants him to die so that she can be free of it.

I hate to say it, but if Feedback Friday is any indication that's often the reason people do this kind of thing, it just makes me sad to think that that could be why.

I'm afraid you're right.

I mean, why on earth would you not want your husband's skull put together?

Why on earth would you put him in a bad care facility?

Look, if she hated the family but loved the husband, she would put him someplace really nice and he would be taken care of.

And then she would be like, I'm not telling you where he is.

He's fine.

And then they would see him and see that he was fine.

They saw him and he's not fine and he's in a shithole.

That is not somebody who just wants to take good care of him without family interference.

This is somebody who wants to be able to neglect him and keep the family from finding out.

That's different.

Yeah, but there might also be some practical reasons.

He did say that his brother-in-law works in real estate and he's apparently pretty good at it.

So yeah, what size is that real estate portfolio?

Maybe there's a good amount of money there.

But also, again, though, she's the CEO of a pharma company.

She's an MDA PhD.

She's probably making several hundred thousand slash million dollars for herself.

She can't be doing that badly.

But but then again people who have a lot of money they always want more money so yeah i don't know by the way that detail about her job and her background so interesting she's obviously pretty bright i mean she must be pretty ambitious to be in that position and possibly ruthless i mean to be the ceo of a pharma company and an md and a phd this is quite the opponent to go up against she it sounds quite manipulative she's cunning she has the care facility on her side because she pays the bills she's got legal protections in place it sounds like she's gotten her husband to say that she's taking good care of of him, which she obviously is not.

That's really scary.

And she's got resources because she has money, both his and hers.

My question is, how do you have time to gatekeep your husband when you're running a pharmaceutical company?

Like, that's a 24-7 job, I imagine.

And also, you have time to change his iPad password.

She's driven, man.

I'll give her that, or she's got somebody helping her.

Who knows?

Separately, the year I turned 40 in 2018, I was in a very dark place and sought therapy and medication due to a cancer scare, the stress of running a company, and my business being on the brink of failure.

That year, my wife's family planned a bridal shower for someone else on my birthday.

She promised she'd be home for dinner on my 40th.

She wasn't.

I made dinner for her kids and tried not to cry at the table.

She caved to her mother's and sister's pressure and stayed to clean up.

She was very late.

I'm still not over that because she's never done anything beyond offer me easy words.

Then, recently, my wife wanted us to take a weekend away, the first time in a long time that she offered to plan something for us.

But now her mom is sick.

She was diagnosed with broken heart syndrome triggered by everything with my brother-in-law.

So the weekend away is now in jeopardy.

Maybe it's for the best.

My wife would have let me down anyway.

Every time I reach out to her, something pulls her away.

Usually it's the kids or her family.

Sometimes it's understandable, like medical emergencies.

And other times, it's not.

No matter what, I'm on the back burner, despite being asked to support everyone.

Even her teenage daughters see it.

Interestingly, her sister, the one bathing and shaving their brother, once bluntly told me that my wife doesn't prioritize me.

Wow.

I am beyond tired.

I feel invisible.

It's now impacting my business.

But if I raise the issue, I'm accused of being a heartless, emotionless workaholic.

I'm trying to support my family while supporting the families of my 100 employees and their families.

How can I help my brother-in-law in a way that doesn't imperil my fragile marriage or harm my in-laws?

How can I help my wife without losing my entire identity?

Signed battling for control and saving an isolated soul when I'm in a dark hole.

Wow, dude.

Yeah, when it rains, it pours, huh?

This is a tough one, man.

There's a lot going on here.

There are no easy answers.

First of all, as you can probably tell, my heart absolutely goes out to you and your wife and her whole family for what he's been through, what his wife is doing to him or with him.

Based on what you've shared, assuming there's no horrific thing your family's done to this woman that you didn't include in your letter, the whole thing is unconscionable.

Your sister-in-law is depriving her husband of the care and connection that he needs to recover.

And she's depriving you guys of your relationship with your brother-in-law.

I mean, it's just not okay at all.

If this were happening in my family, I would be freaking furious.

And you better believe I'd be in court all the time trying to figure out what to do about this.

Honestly, everything you're describing really does sound like elder abuse, possibly even medical kidnapping.

Yes, that's a thing.

Medical kidnapping, it's kind of a hard thing to prove.

And based on my understanding, it's not a crime in and of itself.

But if it involves false imprisonment which is basically preventing somebody from leaving a place neglect abuse fraud undue influence many of which could be at play here those can be prosecuted under criminal laws but whether your sister-in-law is actually abusing or kidnapping her husband i think it's fair to say that the isolation the inconsistent reports I mean, who lies to people and says he's in a coma?

That's insane.

You just don't want people to visit him.

What is going on?

The questionable living conditions, to put it mildly, the lack of necessary treatment.

When you take a step back, this does paint a picture of coercive control.

You know, Gabriel, this just occurred to me as well.

Even if she has a massive beef with the family, one, it's not included here.

Okay, fine.

But two, she lied to their friends in their vacation community and said he's in a coma.

Oh, yeah.

I almost forgot about that detail.

So what is she up to there?

Right.

So she doesn't want anyone to visit him.

Not just, oh, the family sucks.

But hey, these are our friends.

They're cool.

She doesn't want anyone to visit him.

That's different.

That sort of underlined bold highlights this one, even for me, and puts another point in the court of maybe there's not a beef with the family.

She's just actually trying to control access to him.

You know what's funny?

When I first heard that detail, I thought she was saying that to like milk their sympathy, but no, of course not.

She's saying that because she wants people to think that they can't talk to him.

Exactly.

He can't be texted.

He can't be visited.

He's asleep, which is not true.

It's unbelievable.

And sadly, vague coercive control, that's often how abuse manifests in cases involving vulnerable adults like like your brother-in-law.

So, okay, let's get tactical for a moment here.

First of all, hiring a lawyer, 100% the right thing to do.

I would stay close with your attorney, let him advise you on how to keep pushing back against any dodgy moves by your sister-in-law.

The problem is, you said she went to court and had her husband declared legally incompetent.

Oh, man, that's going to be hard to overcome.

Yes, this is hard to overcome.

I'm guessing that means she was granted legal guardianship or conservatorship.

Once a judge signs off on that, the petitioner has a ton of power, unfortunately.

She is his legal guardian now.

She gets to call most slash all of the shots.

And unless the court revokes or modifies that guardianship, well, she can keep doing this legally, even if it's doing him harm.

See also Britney Spears, right?

So your options are basically this.

You could work with your family's attorney to petition the court to review or revoke the guardianship, but that's going to require evidence that your sister-in-law is either incompetent, abusive, or neglectful.

That's going to be an uphill battle, especially if she has the resources to fight back, which it sure sounds like she she does.

But I'd say, look, this is obviously worth the fight.

Now, the fact that she possibly/slash probably used false or misleading medical information to convince the court that her husband needed a guardian in the first place and that she was the best or only person for the job, that could be considered fraud.

I would start arguing that.

And it could be grounds to challenge the guardianship quite effectively.

But it will require hard evidence, medical records, conflicting testimony.

expert opinions, ideally an attorney who specializes in elder law, guardianship disputes, medical medical fraud, stuff like that.

So you don't want some like attorney who does trusts and estates and also some personal injury and auto cases on this.

You want somebody who's very familiar with this system.

Okay.

So if that's not your attorney, find another attorney, ASAP, with this kind of experience.

This is a mixed bag.

This is an expense and it could take a while.

I think luckily, yes, this evil woman has resources, but it sounds like this is the whole family versus one person.

So what's good about this is y'all have the time if you put it together.

And look, if everybody donates $500 a month, now you got a lot of, if you got 10 people who want to see him, 15 people, you got legal costs covered.

Okay.

So I'm sort of speculating here, but I assume some people can afford it and others can't and you can make up the difference.

There's also a version of this where a family member, ideally somebody with a medical background, like your RN sister-in-law, which is great that somebody like that is in the family, that person could request the court for a limited guardianship.

But again, time, money, emotional stress, and probably the involvement of the whole family to get that.

Your other option, escalate this to Adult Protective Services.

It sounds like they are already investigating.

Do this as many times as you have to.

Include specific documented claims with your report.

The timeline of events here, photos of neglect, evidence of missing possessions, written statements from visitors, whatever you can.

APS should keep investigating, especially if they get multiple reports.

But again, you do have to be prepared for your brother-in-law to defend his wife to APS if they interview him, and you have to be prepared for APS to have their hands tied by this guardianship arrangement.

So bit of a catch-22 there.

It can be, but it's still worth doing.

Another option I'd look into is see if you can get what's called a patient rights ombudsman involved.

This is an independent advocate.

Often they're on staff at a facility, and their job is to protect the rights and welfare of medical patients.

In some places, this is called a patient advocate, a grievance coordinator, a resident rights officer.

Theoretically, they should operate independently, and they're legally required to act in the best interests of the patient, not the institution of the guardian, even though they're on on the payroll of the institution.

Not totally sure how that works, but my hope is that an ombudsman can visit your brother-in-law and escalate any concerns to state agencies, especially if this facility you mentioned is complicit in his isolation or neglect.

No matter what, you know what I'm about to say.

Document, document, document, everything.

Dates, messages, conversations, witness statements.

facility conditions, photos, videos, your brother-in-law's statements, inconsistencies in his wife's reports.

If you ever get a chance to challenge the guardianship, you're going to want meticulous records because the judge has to go, what reason do I have to overturn a decision that I've already made?

And if it's like, I swear none of this is true, he's going to be like, get out of here.

But if you're like, here's a 13-page dossier where she told these people this and that wasn't true.

And she told those people that and that wasn't true.

And then she said this and that wasn't true.

Here are the documents.

He's going to go, ah, okay, I've been bamboozled and I don't like that.

Judges do not like being bamboozled.

I'll tell you that.

Look, I'm going to give it to you straight though.

This is going to be hard.

It's going to take some time.

And it makes my blood boil that your brother-in-law might have to suffer in the meantime.

He really is paying the highest price for all of this.

It's just devastating.

This poor guy and your poor family.

I mean, he's watching Toby McGuire movies.

For God's sake, somebody think of the man.

Somebody think of the Netflix queue.

You guys should definitely include that in the documentation.

I think the judge should know that he's being forced to watch all of Toby Maguire's oeuvre.

Imagine a judge just throwing the file across the room.

at opposing counsel.

I was on the fence about his skull being open for nine months, but when you mentioned Toby Maguire's oeuvre, that's really what put this over the edge.

Truly devastating.

I'm going to rule in someone else's favor.

And this is, this is horrible.

On the other hand, though, as sad as your brother-in-law's situation is, let's just remember, he does have a roof over his head.

Perhaps not the greatest roof, but he has some level of care.

A leaky roof.

Yeah, he finally did have that necessary procedure, thank God, although it was very late.

I mean, he deserves so much more.

You know, he's not like wasting away in an attic somewhere.

So while you do all of this, I would also try not to torture yourself unnecessarily i mean the only thing that you can do practically is channel all of this concern and anxiety and rage and love for your brother-in-law into pursuing these options and you got to keep looking for ways to love your brother-in-law however you can and i realize that your means are limited because it sounds like his reality is being shaped by his wife's narrative basically And every visit from you and your family, every conversation he has with you guys, every time, you know, your sister-in-law shaves him, every little ritual, every memory you bring up, those are going to be lifelines for him.

For sure.

That'll keep him connected to who he really is and who truly cares for him as well.

So let's talk about you now.

You are, I don't know how to put it, man.

You're going through it.

Yeah.

And you have been for a while, it sounds like.

I am so very sorry to hear about the cancer scare and the business stress.

You know, these feelings of being forgotten or not prioritized in your marriage.

And you're going through all of that on top of your brother-in-law.

I mean, this is pretty extraordinary.

Yeah, man.

It's a lot for one person to go through.

This is overwhelming.

And I'm just reading the letter.

I'm really glad to hear that you sought out therapy.

Of course, I hope you stuck with it.

I'm glad you're finding a few different ways to take care of yourself.

So look, a couple of things.

First of all, it sounds like your wife is often torn between what her family wants and what you want.

And I don't know where she is these days.

You know, we don't know what she's going through herself, how she feels about the marriage.

what she really wants.

I mean, there's probably so much more information, but it sounds like it can be hard for her to say to her family something as simple as, listen, guys, I'm really sorry, but that night is Michael's birthday.

Can we find another night to do the shower?

Cause I want to be with him on his birthday.

Or, you know, I'm sorry to leave you guys with the dishes, but I made a promise to be home by eight.

I'm going to be home by eight.

Or, you know, sorry, mom and dad, I know you're going through a tough time, but we need just a few days away together.

So we're going to do this trip and I'll see you next week.

Your wife has a big family, and there is a theme in this letter of certain people in the family asserting their needs over other people's, or perhaps your wife capitulating to other people's interests over her own, which is interesting.

Or look, to be fair, maybe it's not malicious.

It's just how it is in a big family when you're an in-law like our friend here, you just get the short end of the stick a lot of the time.

I don't know.

Fair point.

But I do get the sense that your wife is putting her family first in a variety of ways.

And I feel for her because it's a stressful time, but something tells me she either isn't great at drawing some basic boundaries with them.

Or, I mean, I feel bad saying this, but is she avoiding something with you, maybe?

I mean, the real issue, of course, is how you and your wife are talking about all of this, and it doesn't sound like you guys are talking all that much.

I mean, how are you resolving these conflicts?

How are you helping each other understand what you need?

It made me really sad when you said that the weekend trip falling apart was maybe for the best and that your wife would have let you down anyway.

Yeah, that one hit.

Like, well, good thing we didn't do it.

It just would have been, she would have just blown it anyway.

I mean, that's...

Yikes.

I mean, look, you might have good reason to believe that.

Maybe you would have been disappointed if you had gone on this trip in some way.

But then I guess I would want to know why you would have been let down.

You know, what is it that you would have been hoping for?

How would your wife have understood what you were hoping for?

How would she have tried to live up to it or not lived up to it?

And just like, where is the disconnect between the two of you right now?

Because it just sounds like you guys are not really giving each other the opportunity to work through any of this in a meaningful way.

But also by saying something like what you said in that section, it's interesting because your wife let you down either way, whether you went on the trip or whether you didn't go on the trip.

She let you down by canceling to take care of her mom.

And in your mind, she probably would have let you down if you had gone.

So again, maybe you have some good reasons to believe that, but I just think we have to be very careful with these assumptions that we make because they create a story.

And the story seems to be, my wife will always disappoint me, and I will always be missed or always be forgotten somehow.

And if that's the story that you buy into, then that's probably going to be the reality.

So in a way, you are subtly creating a situation where the thing that hurts you the most is virtually guaranteed to happen.

Good point.

And the way to break out of that story would be, what?

I'm afraid if we go on this trip, I'm going to be let down somehow and I don't want to feel that way.

Can we talk about it?

That's one way to do it.

Another way might be to say, look, this weekend trip means a lot to me.

I feel it's really important for the both of us.

Can we please carve out two to three days and make time to prioritize each other?

And can we maybe have a little do-over of my 40th birthday?

You know, can we really catch up?

Like, let's prioritize each other.

Let's make it happen.

Right.

Maybe also, I know it's hard to leave when your mom's hurting, but can we check in on her while we're away?

Can we also trust her to take care of herself for a couple of days or maybe let one of your siblings help?

And also, I'm here to talk about all this.

I know it's hard to watch your mom go through this whole thing with your brother.

You can see how these approaches make more room for the two of them, right?

They open up possibilities.

They don't shut them down.

Whereas maybe it's for the best.

My wife would have let me down anyway.

That leaves very little room for them to try things in a new way and come to understand each other better.

So it's just like a fade-out complete.

And then the story gets reinforced.

That's right.

Dot, dot, dot.

Five, ten years go by and you hardly talk and there's this buried resentment everywhere and loneliness.

And who knows, maybe you separate or you just settle for being unhappy.

That sucks.

I get why this is so hard.

When you're in a long-term relationship, these stories, they have a way of growing almost without you realizing.

It's like mold behind the baseboards.

And it takes a lot of sunlight to disinfect these corners of a relationship, for sure.

It really does, man.

It can be scary to go right at it and be like, hey, I'm not happy about this.

This isn't working.

I'm angry.

I'm lonely.

I'm sad.

I don't feel like a priority.

It's hard to be accused of being a heartless workaholic, whatever it is.

I don't want to feel that way.

I want to figure this out together.

But if you don't do that, and by the way, they both have to want to do that for this to work.

But if you don't try, this just gets worse.

I also think there's some work for him to do to process the distress and the sadness of his brother-in-law's situation on his end and also his hurt about the marriage and find a way to not let that impact his business quite as much because that's part of being a good leader too.

You know, I really relate to that particular stress of his, being responsible for other people's livelihoods and their families.

It is a huge responsibility.

It's something that most people don't fully understand.

And I managed a team of what, like eight people.

This guy's managing 100 people.

That is a ton of responsibility.

That's a lot of weight on your shoulders.

And it's one that's probably heightened by being a man, I think.

Yeah, the whole provider thing, for sure.

The provider thing, but also it can be a lot harder for us guys to say, you know, I don't feel like a priority.

I feel invisible.

Being alone on my birthday after you said that you would be home, that really sucked.

It's, it's vulnerable to say that.

That really hits.

I really feel for him here.

Being left alone for a major event or a big milestone, like turning 40.

I mean, look, in a way, it's just a birthday, but in another way, it's a big deal, especially if your spouse said, I will be there for dinner.

I will tell you, when I got married, I know you flew in the same day.

So I'm not talking about you because you kind of came like, you squeezed me in.

But on my wedding, I woke up and I was, a bunch of us went to breakfast.

And then I was like, great.

All right.

There's like six hours to the wedding.

Like, what are we going to do?

Hang out.

And every, like, my dad's like, I'm going back to the hotel.

I got to get ready.

And other people were like, I need to go rent a suit because one of my best friends, Tim, he came at the last minute and took some other guy's spot because he wasn't supposed to come.

And the other, you know, blah, blah, blah.

And then other people who were there were like, I got to go do this.

I got to go do that.

So I sat at home and I literally.

checked my email and social media on my wedding day because I had nothing to do and no one was around.

Really?

Wow.

Yeah.

It was, it was kind of a freak thing because, of course, my family was all in town, but they were busy.

And other people were like, yeah, my flight gets in in three hours or my flight gets in in an hour.

And then we go and like get dressed fast and come.

So it wasn't like we had planned this whole morning.

I just kind of assumed that after the breakfast, somebody would be around and nobody was around.

And I just remember being like, wow, this reminds me of all my birthdays growing up because both my parents worked.

And my birthday was usually not on a weekend.

So I usually was like in school and then alone on my birthday.

And it really hit me.

This is such a sad story.

I'm so sorry.

I will say now as an adult, I don't like Christmas.

I don't like my birthday and I don't like other events that other people love because it just makes me feel lonely as crap.

Even if there are people around, I just want the day to be over.

And it's sad because it's Christmas or it's sad because it's my birthday, but I'm like, I hope no one remembers.

I still have that feeling.

I'm so sorry that that happened to you, bud.

It's funny to think about that because when I went to your wedding, we were friends for, what, a few years at that point?

And we weren't that close.

We hadn't hung out that much.

It was kind of early days for us.

It was early days.

I mean, we're friends for like seven years.

I don't remember this at all.

And I must not have been there.

Yeah, it must have been because I flew in in the afternoon, but just know if we had a do-over on your wedding, I'd, I would take you out for

eggs or whatever.

We do as you here's the thing, though, like it's not even, it didn't have to be that way.

I could have easily, I should have made actual plans.

And that's what I think this guy might also be doing is he's, there's a lot of assumptions here that are doing a disservice.

What I should have done is gone, okay, there's a breakfast.

What am I doing after that?

Who can I hang out with?

Where should I go?

Should I go to the hotel and just kick it by the pool and then get ready?

You know, instead of just sitting around, I was like in my suit for seven hours.

I was just sucked.

You know, I was just like in my wedding suit for seven hours, just sitting there, like getting creases in my shit.

So this guy's also making another set of assumptions, right?

Like, oh, she should know this or she should know how upset I am.

And it's like, no, you got to do something about that, man.

Right.

How do you communicate to the people in your life what you need so that they can be there in the way that you need?

That's kind of a skill.

Right.

Like I'm all, wam, feeling sorry for myself.

And it's like, no, I played a part in this too.

You know, I did.

But I also know that articulating that out loud to other people as a man, yeah, it's embarrassing.

Like I'm doing it to hundreds of thousands of people right now.

So that's a, that's something.

But I, I would have felt weird saying anything if everybody was busy.

I didn't want to text everyone and be like, I'm lonely and bored, guys.

Like that's, I don't know.

It's just something you just don't do as a guy.

So the loneliness that our friend here feels is probably caused by a number of things, right?

To your point, his personality, his way of going about resolving this stuff, his history, what he's dealing with in this moment in his life, his gender, perhaps, but also, let's remember, he doesn't have his beloved brother-in-law anymore, the brother he never had.

And that is really hard.

It's deeply sad.

And that is probably making everything harder.

So you have a few next steps.

Fight for your brother-in-law.

Collaborate with your wife and her family to come up with a plan.

Present a united front.

Coordinate all your efforts.

And if there are people in the family who disagree with you guys, like the one brother who gets to visit, tough Kishka.

You can't fight for what's right without creating some waves.

Plus, you might need that guy.

If he's allowed to visit, he's like your inside man.

And I would make an effort to talk to your wife.

Take some chances, articulate how you feel, invite her to fill you in on what she is struggling with.

I think you're both going through some very intense stuff.

And if you need help, definitely consider couples counseling.

It can be a game changer.

And of course, keep taking care of yourself, man.

Talk to your therapist.

Talk to a couple of friends.

Get good sleep.

Exercise.

do a couple conundrasanas every morning or whatever.

I have an image of you as a highly driven, responsible, self-sufficient guy who carries the world on his shoulders.

There are virtues in there and there are flaws.

And it's time to make some changes before you really do a number on your body and your mind and on your relationships because there's a lot you can't control in this situation.

But these are things you do control.

And that's how you can show up for everyone else as well as possible.

I'm so sorry you're going through all this.

Sending you a big hug, man.

Take care.

You know what's worse than a Toby McGuire movie?

Now, I mean, not much, but not taking advantage of the deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show.

We'll be right back.

Dreaming of hydrated skin amidst these dry winter months?

Dime offers clean, master aesthetician crafted skincare products that deeply nourish, protect, and hydrate.

Their formulas, made with clean ingredients, lock in moisture for skin that stays soft, smooth, and radiant all season long.

Hydration starts with Dime's best-selling hyaluronic acid serum, delivering deep moisture where your skin craves it most.

This lightweight, fast-absorbing serum helps quench dryness, plump skin, and boost elasticity from the inside out.

Once your skin is prepped with the serum, seal in all that hydration with their Dewy Day Cream, a rich, luxurious moisturizer designed to provide all-day softness and lasting glow.

Together, this powerful duo keeps your skin smooth, supple, and luminous, even in the harshest weather.

Shop the duo now at dimebeautyco.com.

That's dimebeautyco.com and get the hydrated skin of your dreams.

What makes a life a good one?

Is it the adventure you have

or the friends you find along the way?

Maybe it's pursuing your passion while striving to protect, defend, and save what you believe in every single day.

So, what makes a life a good one?

In the Coast Guard, we think it's all of the above and more, but you'll have to find out for yourself.

Visit gocoastguard.com to learn more.

Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the sponsors who make the show possible.

All of the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the podcast.

They're searchable, they're clickable over at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

Consider supporting those who support the show.

All right, now for the recommendation of the week.

I am addicted to Lit Villa.

My recommendation of the week is a super fun, active game experience.

It's called Activate Games.

Jen and I have played this in London.

We played it in San Francisco.

A show fan Mitchell Smith wrote in and gifted us a certificate to play, which is very nice.

Thank you so much.

It's for adolescents and adults.

It's not just like adult stuff.

In fact, it's mostly kids when we go there, but whatever.

And it is super fun.

There's like light up floor tiles and you have to avoid getting hit by the red ones while you stomp on the blue ones and the green ones are safe.

And then there's also like trivia where instead of just answering the questions, you have to shoot the basketball through the right colored hoop to hit the answer.

So there's a dual challenge there.

There's laser mazes where you have to crawl through like active laser kind of things shooting at you to make sure.

It's like a some out of a 007 movie.

There's all these different versions of each game.

It's really fun.

You get a little bit of a workout if you want to.

And Jen and I are just hooked on this.

We'll go and play for an hour and just be like dripping sweat and then go out to lunch.

You should really check it out if it's in your area.

Activate games.

And it's great for a big group.

If you're kind of like, I've got a group of 10 people and we got to do something and then we're going to go to dinner.

Activate games is something you should check out alongside.

It's sort of in the vein of escape rooms, but it's less cerebral and more athletic.

Okay, what's next?

Hey, Jordan and Gabe.

I'm 22, just graduated college, and have around $50,000 in a brokerage account and $30,000 in a Roth IRA.

A year ago, I had $150,000 in my brokerage account, but I spent about $100,000 on travel experiences and personal growth.

Peru, Aspen, Costa Rica, Italy, Hawaii, learning how to surf, exploring LA where I'm moving in less than a month, working on my style, and pushing myself socially after years of social anxiety.

I believe these experiences made me a better person in ways I never got from school and work.

I used to be socially anxious and rigid.

Now I'm more grounded, I have real confidence, and I find it much easier to connect with all different types of people.

The trips have given me new perspectives, gratitude, aspiration, empathy, humility, presence, emotional depth, sense of self.

I've also been able to refine and experiment with myself.

Wow.

Okay.

Sounds like quite a journey you've been on.

This is a huge transformation, man.

Well done.

Amazing what travel and a lot of hard work can actually do, eh?

That said, a lot of this growth probably could have happened without the spending or the time away from working.

Interesting.

You know, I wonder if that's true.

Maybe it is.

Hey, totally fair.

But there is something very powerful about leaving your home country, challenging yourself like this out in the world.

You definitely don't need to spend 100K to have those experiences all the time, but I wonder if the same thing would have happened, I don't know, sitting behind a desk for a year in your hometown.

I don't think so.

Now that I'm entering a full-time job and thinking about starting my own real estate development and construction company one day, I'm feeling the urge to go back to full-time grind mode, which is what put me in the financial situation that I had earlier.

Wow.

Okay.

So that means you actually made most, if not all, of that money you had.

That is hugely impressive, man.

I was kind kind of thinking like maybe somebody died and gave him a bunch of money and he spent it on growth.

Good investment.

Look,

it's amazing what dollar cost averaging can do when you're investing, huh?

I can't tell if I made a short-sighted mistake by spending that much or if I gave myself something more valuable.

One side of me feels like the money has just been converted.

The other side feels regret and disgust for letting go of a nest egg that at this age would have unlocked so many opportunities in the future.

Did I blow it?

Or did I invest in something else that will compound just like my stock portfolio?

Did I give myself a huge gift or was I just a young spendthrift?

Hey, great question.

So as you can probably tell, I am a huge fan of having experiences like this, especially at such a young age.

I would not at all be the person I am today if I hadn't traveled a ton when I was younger.

And there are so many awesome ways to grow as a human being.

Travel is just one of them.

And like I said, You definitely don't need to drop 100 grand in order to develop as a person.

In fact, in my experience, traveling on the cheap is often the most formative and rewarding.

But hey, look, this trip you did, especially at 22 years old, the impact it had on your personality, your mindset, your identity, it really does sound profound, my man.

All of these qualities you mentioned, you really cannot put a price on them.

The person you become in your 20s and your 30s, that largely determines the trajectory of your life.

That's when you really, you get to sculpt yourself.

You create this foundation.

And plus, all of the science shows that true satisfaction, true happiness long term, it comes from experiences and not things.

So did you blow it?

I mean, it sure doesn't sound like it to me.

It sounds like you got a pretty good ROI return on investment from all of this.

And you got the ROI early on when it came at a lower opportunity cost and you have longer to enjoy the benefits.

Like, yeah, you could have saved up and done this in your 50s and it wouldn't have been a large amount of money.

And blah, blah, blah, it would have grown at interest.

When you're 20, you have no real responsibility.

Trust me.

I thought I had responsibility in my 20s and then I have kids now.

It's not even close.

It's nothing even close.

And I have a company.

I got to pay people.

I can't just be like, you know what?

I'm taking a year-long sabbatical, bro.

I got to go to Indonesia.

That is just unrealistic.

If you put all these assets to work, if you show up to your career with this ambition and the empathy and the humility.

If you invest in people with your newfound depth and presence, it is going to pay massive dividends.

And not just financially, although that's, of course, a big part of it.

You're also going to have more meaningful relationships.

You're going to have a much more interesting lens on the world.

You're going to have more spiritual depth.

They're all connected, of course.

So yes, I do think you invested in something that will compound over time.

You didn't just piss this money away.

But how much this investment pays off, it's going to depend on how consciously you apply these qualities and how consistently, which really comes down to your habits and your systems and how you continue to cultivate yourself.

Once you settle back into your life in the States or wherever you are, you go back into full-time grind mode.

If you start working and you lose your connection to all this stuff, which is kind of easy to do, I remember when I was working in corporate, it was like, I only saw my office, I only thought about work.

Like if you forget to take a genuine interest in people, if you stop challenging yourself, if you stop being playful, if you start obsessing exclusively about your friggin schwab account and you lose the wonderful humility and depth, that's when the travels will stop paying off.

So I would shift your thinking here a little bit.

Instead of asking, oh my God, did I just blow 100K on traveling?

I would ask, I spent 100K on traveling.

That is a significant investment.

How do I make the most of it as I enter this new chapter of my life?

How can I honor the investment that I made in myself?

Because the money is already spent, man.

How you internalize what you learned and apply it, that is what you actually have control over.

Yes, that is so well said.

And hearing his story, I have to say, is very inspiring as I begin these travels, even though I'm in a very different life phase from his.

But, you know, my only caveat to all of this is if part of the reason that you're asking this question is that you feel you could have been more disciplined with your money, maybe you know what was worth spending money on and what wasn't worth spending money on and you have a couple regrets.

That is something to keep an eye on.

You know, I don't think we're encouraging you to be reckless, especially if you want to be an entrepreneur, you want to build real wealth.

You said that you feel regret, but you also said you feel disgust, which is a very strong word.

And I just wonder what exactly makes you feel disgusted about the investment you made in yourself, given how profound it was.

You know, was it just the sheer amount of money, which I can understand?

You clearly value it and it's not a small amount of money.

Also, maybe you were a little spendthrifty, or maybe you had some meaning attached to this money.

Maybe because you worked hard for it, which is beautiful, or you managed to accumulate it at such a young age, which is a big deal.

And maybe not having that money anymore, even though you got a lot out of it, maybe that feels like, I don't know, maybe there's a hit to your identity or chips away at the accomplishment somehow.

Just a few things to consider because I do get the sense that how you feel about this money now is about more than just the number in your bank account.

But then we're back to the same idea.

It's all about what you do with that awareness.

Kicking yourself for a mistake, eh, not going to get you very far.

Not making that mistake in the future, making different choices, valuing your money better.

That's going to get you somewhere.

I mean, dude, I wish I could tell publicly all the dumb investments and mistakes I've made with money, but we don't have that kind of time.

But when I look at it, I go, okay, I probably learned a million over time.

I've learned a million dollar lesson from losing X number of dollars.

Or I've learned a multi-million dollar lesson lesson or a priceless lesson from losing a million dollars.

I mean, that is very possible.

I've talked about dissolution of my previous business.

I've talked about bad investments in the stock.

I mean, it's kind of cliche at this point, but I don't really regret most of those things.

Like, would I do them again?

Hell no.

But like, when you take that lens in a funny way, that can also make the mistakes money well spent.

Absolutely.

So you can read Ramit Sati books all you want, where he's like, invest in index funds, don't pick stocks.

And you're like, but I'm going to pick this stock.

And then you're like, oh, my God.

Now I'm not picking stocks anymore.

Let me tell you, there's a sting that's not going to go away for a while.

So I'm going to do things right from here on out.

And it's like, oh, thank God I could afford to learn that lesson.

But look, man, you're in a great position.

You're 22.

You are just starting out in your career.

Spending 100K at 22 in order to mature and evolve when you have decades to build your wealth, that is very different from spending 100K at say 55, depending on the person, of course.

Gabriel, I don't know about you.

I probably had $175,000 in student loan debt or something like that after college.

Wow.

Did I learn more from traveling, which cost me way less than that?

Yes.

Yes.

Look, I had a law degree after that too.

That was helpful.

But like, am I really using that?

You know, if I had to do it all over again, knowing I would be where I am now, which is impossible, of course, would I spend that money going to college and law school or would I just travel and live abroad?

I mean, I think we all kind of know the answer to that.

Interesting.

But man, given your ambition, your lust for life, your track record, it sounds like there's a high likelihood that you're going to build this wealth back and you're going to do just fine.

All you got to do is stay connected to what you learned and keep growing.

And you might want to keep traveling here and there just to stay in touch with this mindset, keep expanding.

I'm excited for you, man.

Keep up the great work.

I wish you an amazing life.

Let's meet up sometime in a place where neither of us can read the menus.

EDC, apparently.

Yes, exactly.

Look, the reason I can't read the menus at EDC is decidedly different from the reason I can't read the menus in Portugal.

I'm just going to leave it at that.

By the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter, We BitWiser.

It's a bite-sized gem from a past episode from Us to You.

Delivered to your inbox most Wednesdays.

I know some people are like, I'm not getting it anymore.

Gabe is just, you know, we write these things together and he is a lazy lazy bastard.

So we've skipped a couple of weeks.

He's sitting there avoiding scorpion bites on his junk in the jungle.

It's just so hard to type those newsletters when you're pulling 37 trunks of tuxedos to the jungle.

You know, that's right.

You're yelling at your man servants.

March faster, gentlemen.

We're almost there.

So we're going to be back on it soon.

But if you want to keep up with the wisdom from our thousand plus episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out.

You can sign up at jordanharbinger.com slash news.

You can reach us at Friday at jordanharbinger.com.

Please keep your emails concise.

Try to use descriptive subject lines.

That makes our job a whole lot easier.

If you're being blocked from your dream career for seeking mental health treatment, your beloved ex is painting you as the villain after a chaotic breakup, or you're debating whether to withhold an inheritance from your sibling because they're stuck in an abusive relationship.

Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up friday at jordanharbinger.com.

We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

Go back and check out Jefferson Fisher if you haven't done so yet.

Great conversation there.

The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust.

I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course.

It's 100% free.

It is not gross.

It is not schmoozy.

You can find it on the ThinkIFIC platform at sixminutenetworking.com.

These drills take just a few minutes a day.

I really wish I knew this stuff 20 years ago.

You got to dig that well before you get thirsty, folks.

Build relationships before you need them.

You can find it all at sixminutenetworking.com.

Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals.

I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

You can also connect with me on LinkedIn.

Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi.

This show is created in association with Podcast One.

My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tata Sedlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi.

Our advice and opinions are our own.

I am a lawyer, but I'm not a good lawyer.

I'm not your lawyer.

So do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show.

Remember, we rise by lifting others.

Share the show with those you love.

If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn.

And we'll see you next time.

What happens when the only way to survive is to lie so well you forget who you really are?

FBI veteran Scott Payne went undercover with one of the most dangerous biker gangs in the country and almost didn't make it out.

This is the way I was trained and this is what I think.

Anytime you are something that you're not,

pretend to be something that's opposite of you for a long period of time, especially in deep cover.

Generally one or two things is going to happen.

You're either going to slip up and they're going to catch you or you're going to become it.

Because there's so many horror stories and undercovers.

It sucks that the same mistakes are being made today that were being made in the 80s.

You got a small department, you got somebody just running the undercover, but that person is also the case agent who is going to get promoted if the case succeeds.

I'm not saying people are going to do the wrong thing.

It's just a bad foundation.

I guess people is kind of my business.

Even as an investigator, at the end of the day, you need to be able to sit down with somebody and have a conversation with them and gather intelligence, get information.

Because if all else fails and computers shut down and phones, that's great.

It's all good stuff, but it's all human intelligence.

And you just need to be able to talk to people.

You got to be believable.

And this is where a lot of people think about undercover.

And when I'm out training and speaking, I mean, I'll ask, what do you think undercover is?

Some people say acting.

I go, okay, what else do you think it is?

Lying.

Is it pretending to be something you're not?

The true definition of undercover work is you're forming relationships that you're most likely going to betray.

That sucks if you look at it that way, but you need to be able to figure out a way you're going to do it and rationalize it in your mind so it doesn't have an adverse impact on you.

Go Inside Basement Strip Searches, A Brotherhood Built on Betrayal, and the Psychological Damage That Still Lingers on episode 1120 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.

All you parents out there trying to soak up every last drop of your baby's early days, I see you.

It hurts your heart every time you leave their side, but let's be real, you've got stuff to do.

That's where Nanit comes in.

Don't think of it as just a baby monitor, it's your superhero parenting sidekick that makes connection happen anywhere, whether you're in another room or a plane right away.

With Nanit, crystal-clear HD video makes checking in easy while capturing priceless moments.

Have you ever seen a baby discover their toes?

It's can't miss entertainment.

And two-way audio brings you crib side to lend a little comfort when it's needed, even if you're caught between meetings.

The ability to be there without physically being there?

It's all part of the Nanit effect.

Stay connected, track developmental milestones, and understand your baby even better with Nanit's personalized insights.

As a special offer for our listeners, use code baby20 at nanit.com now to get 20% off your first order.

That's code baby20 to save 20%.

Nanit, parenthood looks different here.

Nanit.com.

Wherever you go, I gotta be a quattro dog.

Whatever they get into,

from chill time to everyday adventures, protect your dog from parasites with Credelio Quattro.

For full safety information, side effects, and warnings, visit CredelioQuatrolabel.com.

Consult your vet or call 1-888-545-5973.

Ask your vet for Credelio Quattro and visit QuattroDog.com.

Looking to transform your business through Better HR and payroll?

Meet Paycor, a paychecks company, the powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results.

From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, Paycor connects you with the people, data, and expertise you need to succeed.

Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset, your people.

Ready to become a better leader?

Visit paycorp.com slash leaders to learn learn more.

That's paycor.com/slash leaders.