On the Side of Truth

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Speaker 1 This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 8 Who murders someone and go back to get their vehicle? Who does that? In good conscience, I don't care if you were high the night before or not. You go back to the scene of the crime? Yeah, no.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the knife. I'm Hannah Smith.
I'm Patia Eaton. This week, we speak with Yolanda Thomas, who we met through the Healing Justice Project.

Speaker 1 Jennifer Thompson's interview two episodes ago brought us the perspective of a crime victim in the case of an exoneration. This week, Yolanda brings us a new perspective, that of a family member.

Speaker 1 Yolanda's sister, Jaqueta Thomas, was murdered in 1991, and the search for justice in this case is ongoing. So let's get into the interview.

Speaker 8 Well, my name is Yolanda Thomas. I currently reside in Lindale, Arizona.
Growing up, it was initially just me and my sister. My sister Jaquetta and I were two years apart.
Over time, five boys came.

Speaker 1 Yolanda and her sister Jaquetta grew up in Newburn, North Carolina. It's a small riverfront city near the coast, maybe most known for being the birthplace of Pepsi-Cola.

Speaker 1 When Yolanda was in sixth grade and Jaquetta was in seventh, the family moved to Raleigh, a much bigger city. Their first home there was actually a one-bedroom apartment.

Speaker 1 As you can imagine, a very tight squeeze for the family of eight.

Speaker 1 But Yolanda said that living in a safe neighborhood was extremely important to her mother, who sometimes had to work two jobs to support them.

Speaker 1 Still, shortly after the move, it seemed like Jaquetta was beginning to lose her way.

Speaker 8 It's when she started hanging kind of with the crowd who did the drinking. And I would say drugs at that time, but during that time, it was just marijuana.
Nothing really heavy.

Speaker 8 So skipping school and, you know, hanging out during the day with questionable other teenagers. Then came just lots of running away from home just because she didn't want the discipline.

Speaker 8 My mom and stepdad would go find her, bring her back home every time.

Speaker 1 Jaqueta was struggling. She eventually dropped out of high school.
She was never able to obtain her GED or diploma, and the distance between the two sisters was growing.

Speaker 1 Yonder graduated and joined the military, which took her overseas to Germany. She got married and had a son of her own.
She thought about her family and about Jaqueta.

Speaker 1 She worried about her sister often, but life was really busy. Eventually, she was able to plan a trip to visit.
She knew Jaqueta wasn't doing well. She was in the hospital.

Speaker 1 What she didn't know is that it's the last time she would ever see her sister alive.

Speaker 8 I remember going home. My son had been born and he was not quite a year.
So I went home to visit and saw my mom. Jaqueta was in the hospital.

Speaker 8 So when I went to visit her in the hospital, I remember talking to the nurse and the doctor.

Speaker 8 And they pretty much told me, you know, if she did cocaine again, you know, she would die just from all the damage that already happened to her heart.

Speaker 8 And I remember our last conversation, I was just begging and pleading with her just to clean her act up. Like, you know, your nephew wants to get to know you.

Speaker 8 And it was funny, she just kind of looked at me and said, I'm the older sibling here. You don't get to tell me what to do with a smile.
And I said, well, I want to be able to come back and see you.

Speaker 8 So that was, that was our last conversation.

Speaker 1 So tell me about the moment that you learned something has happened.

Speaker 8 I'm in Germany. So I get this phone call.
And it's for me the middle of the night. And you just know being a soldier overseas, you get a phone call, you know, something's wrong.

Speaker 8 And I answered the phone and all I could hear is my mom crying in the background. A good friend of hers is just saying to me, and my sister's nickname was Jet.
And her saying, Jet is gone.

Speaker 8 Jet is gone.

Speaker 8 And I'm like, what do you mean she's gone? And instantly for me, I thought, oh, she was in a bad car accident. She didn't have license.
So I just knew she was with someone and they got an accident.

Speaker 8 At least that's what my mind wanted to believe anyway.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 8 she said, no, they found her. And now I'm still questioning, what do you mean they found her?

Speaker 8 And she said, well, she was murdered. I can't even describe the feeling.
I just remember sinking to the floor, just crying, trying to understand.

Speaker 8 asking how my mom was, asking how my brothers were. My mom couldn't talk.
It took me a few hours just to get my composure to reach out to my unit to say this thing has happened.

Speaker 8 Of course, I need to go home on emergency leave.

Speaker 1 Yolanda described the hours and days that followed this phone call as a blur. She was shocked and heartbroken.
For years, Yolanda had worried about Jaqueta.

Speaker 1 She knew Jaquetta's struggle with addiction might lead her into an unsafe situation. But nothing could have prepared her to learn that her sister was murdered.

Speaker 1 Yolanda and her husband, with their young son, flew from where she was stationed in Germany to Atlanta. Her mother had since moved to Atlanta from Raleigh and had planned Jaqueta's funeral close by.

Speaker 8 Her service was held at the funeral home. I remember where we sat.
I remember her son, who's the oldest, saw me and he came to sit with me. All the girls were with who they had been placed with.

Speaker 8 because they had been taken away from her. And my mom had requested a closed casket.
For some reason, at the end of this service, someone decided to open her casket.

Speaker 8 And her son lost it.

Speaker 8 Like literally, I'm holding him to keep from going to his mom. And of course, that caused me to start crying.
And so we had to leave the area.

Speaker 8 So the service was held in New Bern, and that's where we both were born and raised. I remember a lot of people being there, a lot of classmates or people we used to play with growing up.

Speaker 8 But I just remember looking back at my mom and she just wasn't even crying. Like that was one of the things that I think stuck with me at the time.
I vaguely remember going to the cemetery.

Speaker 1 At the time of her funeral, Had there yet been any further conversations about the cause of death beyond that it was, you know, foul play or who had done it?

Speaker 8 We had no information.

Speaker 8 And after the funeral, you know, I still had friends in Raleigh. So I went to Raleigh and spent a few days.
And so I went to the police department.

Speaker 8 Well, I requested to talk to the police about her case. I remember the detective, he was consoling me, or at least that's what he thought he was doing.

Speaker 8 And he just told me that I just need you to know we have the individuals who did this. You don't have to worry.
Justice will be served.

Speaker 8 But he wouldn't answer my questions. So my question was, well, how did this happen? Did they even talk to you and tell you, like, why did they take my sister's life?

Speaker 8 The answers I got was, we can't answer the questions that you have because it will interfere with the investigation.

Speaker 8 But if you have the individuals and you're assuring me that they're going to pay for this crime, then why can't you answer my questions?

Speaker 1 The two individuals that had been arrested were Gregory Gregory Taylor and Johnny Beck.

Speaker 1 There would be differing accounts of what happened that evening, but what is undisputed about the events of September 25th, 1991 is Greg Taylor and Johnny Beck met up.

Speaker 1 They bought drugs and then they used those drugs together until early the following morning. Later that morning, around 6.30 a.m.

Speaker 1 on September 26th, the body of Jaqueta Thomas is found in a cul-de-sac by a Raleigh police officer. She's lying on her back, facing the sky, and she's been badly beaten.

Speaker 1 Her cause of death is later determined to have been blunt force trauma. Jaqueta Thomas was only 26 years old.
As police are working the crime scene, 29-year-old Greg Taylor shows up.

Speaker 1 By this time, it's about 8.30 a.m.

Speaker 1 Surrounding this cul-de-sac is an open field, and Greg says he's there to retrieve his vehicle, a Nissan Pathfinder. He says it gotten stuck out there the night before while he was off-roading.

Speaker 1 Now, his vehicle, it happens to be just about 150 yards from where Jaquetta's body had been discovered. From the moment Greg Taylor shows up at the crime scene, he becomes a suspect.

Speaker 1 The state quickly builds a case. They say there's a witness who can place him with Jaqueta the night she died, and they also claim to have found blood on his car.

Speaker 1 Greg Taylor and Johnny Beck are arrested, all in less than 24 hours after Jaqueta's body was discovered. But the police aren't really telling Yolanda or her family any of this.

Speaker 1 So this first conversation that you have with law enforcement, you're getting a little bit of like

Speaker 1 something's not quite right here.

Speaker 8 Oh, absolutely. I just didn't know what the secrecy was.
And that's what it felt like, like it was secrecy.

Speaker 8 And I remember the detective grabbing my hand, just kind of gently touching my hand and saying, we got this. We got this.

Speaker 1 Just ultra confident.

Speaker 8 Right. Like, don't worry.

Speaker 8 We're going to take care of this. And I think he felt a little sorry for me because he could see me spinning out of control and just let me know that this is going to be taken care of.

Speaker 8 You know, this case. will go to trial.
It will be a success. We will get the verdict we're looking for.
And your family, again, will get the justice that they deserve.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 How did you feel in that moment when he said that to you?

Speaker 8 Oh, in that moment I was pissed.

Speaker 1 Okay. So that wasn't comforting to you at all.

Speaker 8 No, ma'am. So you never answered my questions the first time,

Speaker 8 which felt like a secret.

Speaker 1 So Greg Taylor was, now we know, arrested. He's arrested alongside a man named Johnny Beck.
Yes. And you don't hear a word about it until how many months later, would you say?

Speaker 8 Not until it was put in the newspaper. I just knew that two people were arrested.
That's all I knew. Not until the news article did I learn Greg Taylor.

Speaker 8 I saw the name Johnny Beck, but it never talked about him.

Speaker 8 So at that time I learned that Greg Taylor was a white man and that he used Johnny Beck to go into this neighborhood to purchase drugs and then they decided to do the drugs together.

Speaker 8 That was what I was told.

Speaker 8 But that they picked her up along the way because she wanted to do drugs too. And then something went wrong.
What the something was was never clear, but that something went wrong.

Speaker 8 And then she ended up murdered.

Speaker 10 Incoming with the old gays. It's Jessé, Bill, Robert, and Mick with a special bonus episode of Silver Linings with the Old Gays.

Speaker 10 No matter what time of year it is, we know it's important to uplift the spirit of pride, which is relatively easy when Palm Springs celebrates in November.

Speaker 11 The first pride I went to, it made me feel like I was really part of something.

Speaker 11 People being so joyous in the streets and being themselves.

Speaker 12 We've really come a long way and I realized I am standing on the shoulders of so many millions of queer people who sacrificed their lives for what we have today.

Speaker 10 Silver Linings with the Old Days is brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Viv Healthcare. Listen on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 14 Hi, I'm Martine Hackett, host of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a production from Ruby Studio in partnership partnership with Argenix.

Speaker 14 This season, we're sharing powerful stories of resilience from people living with MG and CIDP.

Speaker 14 Our hope is to inspire, educate, and remind each other that even in the toughest moments, we're not alone. We'll hear from people like Corbin Whittington.

Speaker 14 After being diagnosed with both CIDP and dilated cardiomyopathy, he found incredible strength through community.

Speaker 9 So when we talk community, we're talking about an entire ecosystem surrounding this condition, including, of course, the patients at the center that are all trying to live life in the moment, live life for the future, but then also create a new future.

Speaker 14 Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 17 Are your AI agents helping users or just creating more work?

Speaker 15 If you can't compare your users' workflows before and after adding AI, how do you know it's even paying off?

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Speaker 1 At first, Greg Taylor was indicted for accessory after the fact, for assisting Johnny Beck in the murder. The state was going after Johnny Beck.

Speaker 1 They wanted Greg to testify against him, but Greg refused. He maintained he was with Johnny all night, and so he knows that neither of them murdered Jaquetta.

Speaker 1 Then, a few months pass, and the charges change. Now, Greg Taylor and Johnny Beck are both charged with first-degree murder.

Speaker 1 After a four-day trial in April of 1993, Gregory Taylor is found guilty of first-degree murder. The jury deliberated for only two hours.

Speaker 1 And were you or any of your family members, anyone you knew present at that trial?

Speaker 8 No, ma'am. We weren't told.
We weren't told. No.

Speaker 1 What did it feel like to know that a trial had happened without being notified or having the opportunity to attend?

Speaker 8 I don't think it bothered me at that time. I went back to life as I knew it, right? I was a soldier.
I went back to Germany. I was living my life.

Speaker 8 I remember getting the news article that told me he had been convicted. I felt a sense of relief.
He happened to be sentenced on her birthday, April the 20th.

Speaker 8 And I thought, oh my goodness, look how the stars have aligned, right?

Speaker 8 They got him. He even was sentenced on her birthday.
She must be resting well.

Speaker 8 Yeah, that was it for me.

Speaker 1 Yolanda tries her best to move forward with her life, but her sister's murder is never too far from her mind. She returns to Germany.
She's busy working and being a mother.

Speaker 1 It isn't until years later that questions about Jaqueta's death begin to arise for Yolanda and reopen this whole chapter for her.

Speaker 8 So I moved back to North Carolina, and I remember immediately signing up to be notified if there was any movement of Greg Taylor in prison.

Speaker 8 Like I knew there was a site you could go to so you can get notifications for anything, which hindsight is 2020.

Speaker 8 When I think about that, why would I want to do that if he was going to be in jail for life? It wouldn't have mattered, right? So that was one of the first things I did when I moved back to Raleigh.

Speaker 8 I just remember six years later, maybe getting a phone call at my job, being told that this was an attorney that was representing Greg Taylor, and that he had exhausted all of his appeals,

Speaker 8 and that this organization that she worked for was his last hope. And there seemed to be some discrepancies in the evidence that was presented at trial.
And they were looking into it.

Speaker 8 And there was a possibility that he could be released. And I let her get all of that out and i said how did you find me how did you find my number

Speaker 8 and i don't remember her answer i went on to curse her out i did and told her to forget that she ever knew my name and to never call me on my job again it didn't matter she kept talking she basically said in so many words well this is going to happen whether you like it or not And I just felt the need to call you to let you know.

Speaker 8 I was kind of taken aback when she said that. And in that moment, I said to her, well, I've asked you not to call me again, but let me tell you this.
I never believed he did it anyway.

Speaker 8 And I hung up the phone.

Speaker 1 We will get into why Yolanda did not believe that Greg Taylor killed her sister, but this moment, it's important. This call from an attorney to Yolanda at work shook her.

Speaker 1 At this point, it's been more than 10 years since her sister's murder, but this call brings everything back.

Speaker 1 Her profound grief, the fact that neither Yolanda nor her family had been notified of anything related to Jaquetta's case. They weren't told about the trial.
They weren't asked to speak. Nothing.

Speaker 1 And here was this person calling her unexpectedly with little care about what it might feel like to be going about your day and then answer a call and be reminded of your sister's murder.

Speaker 8 And I just felt like that's just not how you notify someone. Literally, I had to go home.
That was like opening up a womb for me and pouring salt in. I was done for the day.

Speaker 8 No matter what I initially thought, whether Greg Taylor did it or not, my sister was still gone. And now you're rehashing all this stuff that I was never even a part of.

Speaker 8 So that is why I started doing my research. Because now I'm like, well, I need to read some transcripts.
I need to see what really happened at trial.

Speaker 8 Because if you have a question and it's good enough that possibly he could get out, we need to know why had no one else called me and told me this.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 8 No one offered anything.

Speaker 1 Did you tell your family, the rest of your family about that phone call?

Speaker 8 I told my mother. And it was funny because I didn't know how to approach this conversation with her.

Speaker 8 my mom struggled with my sister's death for years and now that i'm a mom i get that i've never lost a child so i can't even imagine so i think as as the siblings we just respect it how she deals with it is how she's going to deal with it but my mom had never even said my sister's name anymore since she had passed so i was not sure how to do this and i remember calling her and i told her about the phone call and And I said, and since the phone call, I've been home and I've been digging.

Speaker 8 And do you know there's a chance that he may not have even done this? And she listened and she said, I never believed he did it. And I was like, oh, you never told me.

Speaker 8 So I said, well, why didn't you believe it? And she said, because it was a white man.

Speaker 1 Wow. So you both had the same instinct.
Yes. And what did Greg Taylor being white mean to you in this context?

Speaker 8 Oh, Greg Taylor did not murder my sister. Let me tell you.

Speaker 8 First off, if he was with the black man to go buy drugs, Johnny Beck or anyone else in the neighborhood would not have allowed him to murder my sister. You call it the code of African Americans.

Speaker 8 I don't know. But there is nowhere you're going to let an outsider.
And a white man was considered an outsider. That was why he had to have Johnny Beck to go buy the drugs in this area.

Speaker 10 Incoming with the old gays, it's Jessé, Bill, Robert, and Mick with a special bonus episode of Silver Linings with the Old Gays.

Speaker 10 No matter what time of year it is, we know it's important to uplift the spirit of pride, which is relatively easy when Palm Springs celebrates in November.

Speaker 11 The first pride I went to, it made me feel like I was really part of something.

Speaker 11 People being so joyous in the streets and being themselves.

Speaker 12 We've really come a long way and I realize I am standing on the shoulders of so many millions of queer people who sacrificed their lives for what we have today.

Speaker 10 Silver Linings with the Old Days is brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Viv Healthcare. Listen on the iHeart radio app or or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 14 Hi, I'm Martine Hackett, host of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a production from Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenix.

Speaker 14 This season, we're sharing powerful stories of resilience from people living with MG and CIDP.

Speaker 14 Our hope is to inspire, educate, and remind each other that even in the toughest moments, we're not alone. We'll hear from people like Corbin Whittington.

Speaker 14 After being diagnosed with both CIDP and dilated cardiomyopathy, he found incredible strength through community.

Speaker 9 So when we talk community, we're talking about an entire ecosystem surrounding this condition, including, of course, the patients at the center that are all trying to live life in the moment, live life for the future, but then also create a new future.

Speaker 14 Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 17 Are your AI agents helping users or just creating more work?

Speaker 15 If you can't compare your users' workflows before and after adding AI, how do you know it's even paying off?

Speaker 19 Pendo Agent Analytics is the first tool to connect agent prompts and conversations to downstream outcomes like time saved, so you know what's working and what to fix.

Speaker 13 Start improving agent performance at pendo.io/slash podcast.

Speaker 7 That's pendo.io slash podcast.

Speaker 1 For years, Yolanda and her mother had had this same unspoken doubt around Greg Taylor's guilt. But who would they have told and would it have mattered? They weren't invited to the trial.

Speaker 1 They didn't even know it was happening. And Greg Taylor had been convicted by a jury, so maybe he was guilty.
It brought some peace to believe that Jaqueta's murderer had been caught.

Speaker 1 But the more Yolanda learned about what happened at Greg Taylor's trial, the more she wondered if he might be innocent.

Speaker 8 I have always been a researcher. I have always been someone who will dig to find answers.

Speaker 8 And I don't know if I just went to the court. I don't know if I just did a search, but lo and behold, I found him.

Speaker 8 I did.

Speaker 8 And I was reading and I was done. done.

Speaker 8 I was so disgusted when I found those documents. I saw his appeals first.
And so his first appeal was because he felt he didn't have proper representation. Of course, that appeal got denied.

Speaker 8 And then some of the things that he was appealing, like it didn't make sense to me, you know, reading it. I'm no lawyer.
I just know they were denied.

Speaker 8 But I can tell you in reading the documents, for the life of me, can't understand how he was convicted.

Speaker 1 As Yolanda looked over court documents, she learned the prosecution's version of what happened the night of her sister's murder.

Speaker 1 The prosecution said that Greg Taylor and Johnny Beck met Jaquetta during this drug-fueled night out. They'd invited her into Greg's vehicle, that Nissan Pathfinder.

Speaker 1 They'd done more drugs together, but then for some unknown reason, Greg attacked Jaquetta, killing her.

Speaker 1 At the same time that Yolanda is learning the prosecution's version of events, she's also learning Greg Taylor's version of events, which importantly had not changed in the 15 years since his conviction.

Speaker 8 He said he got off work. He was out drug seeking.
He knew where to buy the drugs, but he knew he couldn't go into that neighborhood. He would be suspected of being a police officer or undercover cop.

Speaker 8 Now, I don't know if he knew Johnny Bat or if he just met him that night, but he knew he needed a black person to go into the neighborhood.

Speaker 8 And the agreement was, if you can get these drugs, we'll do them together. And so they purchased the drugs.
They rode from the neighborhood to this cul-de-sac.

Speaker 8 They got high in the cul-de-sac and then decided because Greg had a four by four

Speaker 8 to go mudding.

Speaker 1 Four-wheeling. There you go.

Speaker 8 Yes. Yes.
And their vehicle got stuck. His vehicle got stuck.
They decided not to call the police because they were high. They had been doing drugs.
And they decided to walk out of the area.

Speaker 8 And when they walked out into the cul-de-sac, it's where they noticed what they said looked like a rug. That's what they said.

Speaker 8 But they both were scared and high, according to Greg, and they wasn't sure what it was. And they were like, oh, we're really not going to call any help now to get my vehicle unstuck.

Speaker 8 They talked amongst themselves, wondering if it was a body. but they continued to go out until they met someone and caught a ride and both went to their prospective homes.

Speaker 1 And that's Johnny Beck's version of events as well?

Speaker 8 Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 1 And then I think it's interesting too, because Greg came back the next day. Can you tell us what you learned about that?

Speaker 8 So I think that was maybe the second thing that just baffled me. Who murders someone and go back to get their vehicle? Who does that?

Speaker 8 In good conscience, I don't care if you were high the night before or not. You go back to the scene of the crime? Yeah, no.

Speaker 8 Now, I did learn that from the detective. The person we arrested came back to the scene of the crime and he was arrested there.
And then later, the person he was with was picked up.

Speaker 1 What are you feeling reading through these documents, having had this lingering doubt since your sister's murder?

Speaker 8 You know, I think my biggest question was, why weren't we invited to the trial? And how could this jury convict this man on what I was reading?

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, Greg Taylor is incarcerated. How did it feel to know that was his reality while you were sort of unraveling the doubts you had in his conviction?

Speaker 8 So I think what was hard for me was, how dare you give this person life on what I'm reading?

Speaker 8 Still a lot of holes here. Yes, he may have been guilty of something, but he certainly was not guilty of killing my sister.
And now he had been taken away from his family.

Speaker 1 Yolanda started contemplating everything Greg Taylor had lost, and he had lost a lot. Greg Taylor was a father.

Speaker 1 Sometimes he had been the only parent present at his daughter's PTA meetings, and now his daughter was growing up without him.

Speaker 1 He had been married to his wife Becky, his high school sweetheart, but just a few months after his sentence began, Becky Taylor filed for divorce.

Speaker 1 Greg Taylor was also a beloved son, and his elderly parents were desperately advocating for his freedom.

Speaker 8 I think one of the things that bothered me the most was I am not an advocate of the death penalty. I'm not.
And

Speaker 8 had things looked different or been different, this man could be gone. So then another life has been taken.
And what was hard for me to wrap my brain around was

Speaker 8 what if he had been executed? and someone was just now looking into his case. You're not going to bring my sister back, but you certainly couldn't bring back this man who didn't even commit the crime.

Speaker 8 So for me, it was a lot going on mentally with the whata coulda shouldas. And how do we now fix this for him?

Speaker 1 And how do you now fix this? You have this attorney who's reached out saying they're trying to exonerate Greg Taylor.

Speaker 8 The next phone call I got was from the people at the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission. And I was being told that his case was was getting ready to be heard.

Speaker 1 The North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission was established back in 2006. They're separate from the appeals process.

Speaker 1 The commission investigates and evaluates credible post-conviction claims of innocence.

Speaker 1 First, there's an initial review of the case, then a commission hearing, and finally a three-judge panel hearing.

Speaker 1 The judges at that final hearing have the power to dismiss someone's charges, and that person can never then be retried for those crimes. It's a big deal if they're hearing your case.

Speaker 8 When I took that phone call, the young lady immediately told me who she was. She told me about what they were investigating or trying to get some answers to.

Speaker 8 And she said, we're not on Greg Taylor's side. We're on the side of truth.
And we just want to know what happened to your sister. And I'm going to tell you.

Speaker 8 Immediately, all my guards came down because here's someone who's telling me they're going to help me find out what happened.

Speaker 8 And if that includes finding out that Greg didn't do it, then that's even better.

Speaker 8 So I was invited to attend. I worked it out to get off work so that I could go and be a part of that hearing.

Speaker 1 So during this panel of eight and the presentation as to why Greg should not be in jail for this, what do you learn during that presentation?

Speaker 8 Girl, so much. Thank goodness I had a friend that could join me because she could take notes and remember these things.

Speaker 8 But I remember the first thing I heard was the blood splatter that was supposed to be on his fender was indeed an insect. That was the first thing.
So that was the first thing.

Speaker 1 Remember the blood spatter on the fender of Greg Taylor's Nissan Pathfinder? At his trial back in April of 1993, the jury who had gone on to find him guilty, they were told it was human blood.

Speaker 1 This was damning evidence against him. But new tests revealed that the blood sample wasn't blood at all.
It was an insect.

Speaker 1 The attorneys who were present on the state's behalf, arguing to keep Greg Taylor behind bars, they said the positive test for blood that had been presented at Greg's trial, well, they got that result from the SBI, the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigations.

Speaker 1 So, present at this hearing to talk about it was SBI analyst Dwayne Deaver. And during his cross-examination, Deaver made a shocking admission.

Speaker 1 The sample had been tested a total of three times, and two of those times it came back negative for the presence of blood.

Speaker 1 Only one of those tests came back positive, and that was the test presented to the jury at Greg's trial. This was a bombshell moment.
The injustice of what had occurred was palpable.

Speaker 1 It was reported that all three judges covered their mouths with their hands and that the attorneys on both sides looked shaken by what Deaver had said.

Speaker 8 The second thing I think for me was

Speaker 8 nothing, no hair, no clothing, no fiber, nothing.

Speaker 8 placed my sister inside that vehicle. So if the state has spawned the story that she was getting high with them, then why was there no evidence of her being in the vehicle?

Speaker 8 And then I think listening to bits and pieces of the investigation that happened around my sister's murder, it just placed too many questions there that you had three or four different scenarios of how this could have happened just listening to these people.

Speaker 1 Did you feel like Jaquetta as a person was given a lot of thought through this investigation?

Speaker 8 Oh, Oh no ma'am. Well she wasn't given any thought and she wasn't even a human being.
Her name was listed in the newspaper from the articles I received in Germany.

Speaker 8 Berg Taylor, you see his name, the trial, he's convicted, her name is listed. When all of this happened, she was local prostitute found dead, period.

Speaker 8 And every article, every news media outlet that talked about it said the local prostitute. Everything that was written could be a magazine article, newspaper article, whatever.

Speaker 8 It was the local prostitute. And I was like, no.

Speaker 8 I don't remember which news outlet I called,

Speaker 8 but I remember I was very upset. And I called and I said, I'm going to need for you to call every other news station that's in this local area, but you will not refer to her as a local prostitute.

Speaker 8 If you can find me proof that she was ever arrested. for prostitution, then you can say that.
But I already knew she had never been arrested for that.

Speaker 8 And so one news station that I call, he did, it was a story. They went and they looked up her arrest record.
And lo and behold, she had never been arrested for that. And he apologized on TV.

Speaker 8 And I'm taking that every other news media outlet just decided to follow suit because from that point on, it was her name that was being said.

Speaker 1 Wow, that's so important. And you were really the driver of that.

Speaker 8 So I did speak at the end of the eight panel. I was asked if I wanted to say anything based on everything I heard.
And I did.

Speaker 8 And so it was closed. The media couldn't be in the room.
And I expressed all my doubts and my concerns and pretty much pleaded with, please take everything that you have heard and do what's right.

Speaker 8 Because I think this young man is innocent.

Speaker 1 Was Greg Taylor present?

Speaker 8 He didn't come before that. No.

Speaker 1 What did your willingness to speak to that panel mean for his case?

Speaker 8 You know what? I'm just going to say I would like to believe that it meant a lot.

Speaker 8 And they all listened and they took their notes.

Speaker 8 And I remember leaving out.

Speaker 8 And one of the members on the panel just stopped me and he said, powerful statement.

Speaker 8 and that was it and that made me feel good now i did ask before i left i said before the media talked about it on the news could someone please call me and tell me what they decide i i just because again i knew like you said this is it this is his last chance

Speaker 8 and i wanted to know first

Speaker 8 well aside from his attorney and so someone did call me and tell me before that um it truly all eight had agreed that it would go before the three judge panel.

Speaker 1 At the center of this case was the brutal murder of Jaqueta Thomas. And to have Jaquetta's own sister, Yolanda, there to speak out in support of Greg Taylor's innocence, it was huge.

Speaker 1 When Jaquetta was murdered, Yolanda and her family weren't even an afterthought. They weren't thought of at all.
They weren't told what investigators believed happened that night.

Speaker 1 They weren't made aware of the trial, and they weren't asked any questions. Yolanda was now certain of Greg Taylor's innocence, but speaking out in support of him came with mixed emotions.

Speaker 1 The police had conducted an investigation and felt confident that Taylor was responsible. He was convicted by a jury.
Yet here Yolanda was trying to free him.

Speaker 8 There was first a sense of betrayal. I really felt like as much as I wanted to believe and help, I still felt a sense of betrayal.
Like, how could I, first off, believe that he didn't do it?

Speaker 8 How could I even attempt to help in any way?

Speaker 8 Because then I was betraying my sister.

Speaker 8 Lots of prayer, just praying that I was doing the right thing. I went with my heart.
I went with what I believed in my gut.

Speaker 8 You know, I can tell you there was no question in that time as to who killed her. I was focused on getting him out.
It never dawned on me. Well, if he didn't do it, who did? Not at that time.

Speaker 8 Not at that time.

Speaker 1 You are on a mission, right? At this point.

Speaker 8 Yes, I was.

Speaker 1 So this panel that you speak to, where, you know, one of these judges even goes so far as to stop you and say that was such a powerful statement.

Speaker 1 You're notified how many days later that this is going to move forward?

Speaker 8 Oh, that evening. Before it hit the news, I got the phone call.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay. And eventually, this all comes to a a head in february of 2010

Speaker 8 and greg his conviction is brought before three superior court judges for a review i sat right there in the room i sat amongst his family i had met his mom and his dad his stepdad wow i had met his daughter and her husband i had met the family

Speaker 1 Greg Taylor's family understood that for Yolanda to be there to support him also meant having to relive some of the most difficult moments of her sister's tragic murder.

Speaker 1 The way she'd struggled with addiction, the way her body had been discarded on concrete, the way she was talked about by local news, who had continued referring to her as a prostitute.

Speaker 8 I remember meeting them,

Speaker 8 and his mom just came up to me and hugged me. She was crying.

Speaker 8 And I said, Why are you crying? She said, Because you've lost so much. And I said, but so have you.

Speaker 8 And she just hugged me tighter. I just told them, if their family member did not do this, he deserves to come home.
And that everything in me was going to do what I could.

Speaker 8 And that I was going to be there to support them to find out the truth. I remember during this.

Speaker 8 three-judge panel, there was a time when they did alert me that her autopsy pictures would be shown. And I was sitting next to his mom and she said, do you need to leave? And I was like, no, I'm okay.

Speaker 8 And when they started placing those photos up, she grabbed my hand and she was in tears. And she looked at me and she said, are you okay? And I whispered and I said, that's just a shell.

Speaker 8 She's gone, that I'm okay.

Speaker 8 She hugged me again when we took a recess. It felt good.
I think I felt, I would say, as close as possible to what they were feeling with it being a family member, to this being

Speaker 8 what happens if he doesn't get out, right?

Speaker 8 Now, I know I had a lot at stake. I felt like, because of my drive and determination that this man is innocent and he needs to get out.
I can't even begin to imagine what that felt like. for them.

Speaker 8 It was a lot at stake, I think, for both of us, well, for all of us sitting there,

Speaker 8 and then you said, Well, what did I think with all this happening about who possibly did it? I don't think it was until in that moment, when we're in those final hours waiting, did it dawn on me?

Speaker 8 Greg didn't do this. If he goes home today, then I don't know who murdered my sister.

Speaker 8 Let me tell you, there was only one time that I got up and I had to leave that room. And it had nothing to do with anything that was being said about my sister.

Speaker 8 It had nothing to do with the pictures that were being shown. It had to do with the lie.

Speaker 8 The lie that was told to this jury that convicted this man.

Speaker 8 I was physically ill.

Speaker 1 All the way back in 1993.

Speaker 8 All the way back. The DA swore to this jury that that was Jaquetta's blood on that fender.
I still get the sick feeling right now. I was so angry.
I had to leave.

Speaker 1 I mean, to know that I guess at best, someone's ability to discern whose blood that was was lazy or incompetent. And at worst, they knew that they were telling the lie.

Speaker 8 They knew, yes. And I know I got up abruptly because when I got up to go, it caused kind of a commotion.
And they knew the people in the room knew that I was there, that I was her sister.

Speaker 8 And I do remember when I came back in and I'm listening very intently and constantly looking at the faces of these three judges.

Speaker 8 I felt that one of them even acknowledged my presence when I came back. And it just was very calming for me.

Speaker 1 Like you had this sort of innate sense that they understood

Speaker 1 that you knew what was going on.

Speaker 8 Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 So what happens next?

Speaker 8 Well, next,

Speaker 8 we get the unanimous decision.

Speaker 1 Does it happen right away?

Speaker 8 It happens right away.

Speaker 1 Whoa.

Speaker 8 We did not go home. We left for them to convene.

Speaker 8 I remember hearing it was time to go back into the room. They had made a decision and we're all holding hands.

Speaker 8 They read them off one by one and they say the judge's name and that that judge believes.

Speaker 8 And when the second judge's name was said and that he believed it or she believed it, everybody just kind of got hopeful, like, oh, like we're making noises.

Speaker 8 And when that final judge's name was read and said that they believe without a shadow of a doubt, oh,

Speaker 8 yeah, I still get the feeling now. That room erupted.

Speaker 1 All three judges agreed. Greg Taylor had been wrongly convicted of the murder of Jaquetta Thomas.
And after 17 years behind bars, he was finally free.

Speaker 8 It was amazing.

Speaker 8 He immediately looked to lock eyes with his daughter, and she just couldn't wait to get to her dad.

Speaker 8 His parents were crying. It was a beautiful moment.
It was.

Speaker 1 I mean, and just so intense. Greg Taylor had at this point spent 17 years.

Speaker 8 17 and a half years.

Speaker 1 17 and a half years of his life, missed so much of his daughter's life.

Speaker 8 He missed a lot. Yes.

Speaker 8 Yes.

Speaker 1 Who from your family was present?

Speaker 8 Just me. I was the spokesperson for us all.

Speaker 1 And so all of this has gone on, but your sister, she's gone. You know, you've had all these years to process this loss, but Greg gets his life back as he should.

Speaker 1 And when does this moment creep up for you of like, okay, well, now

Speaker 1 the person who's responsible is still out there?

Speaker 8 Let me tell you, it was a long ride home.

Speaker 8 It was a long ride home. Him and his family invited me to come out and celebrate.
And I said, no, this is your moment. And no, no, we want you.
And I was like, no,

Speaker 8 I need to go be with my kids. You know, I've been here for the past few days, being a part of this.
And now I need to go. I hugged everyone and I got in my car and I cried all the way home.

Speaker 8 In that was tears of joy, thinking about that his family gets him back. But then

Speaker 8 my tears of the hurt. I think the wound being back open.
I cried so much that night, probably more than I did at her funeral, because it felt like I was burying her all over again.

Speaker 8 And it crept up and fear set in. And I said, I have no clue who murdered my sister.
And because I've been in the news and I've been in the spotlight, right alongside Greg,

Speaker 8 what now if that person comes for me and my family?

Speaker 1 And, you know, also just now that you've been in such a public facing role with his exoneration,

Speaker 1 who's going to talk to you?

Speaker 8 Well, no one. No one.

Speaker 8 Because when I went to talk to the police after all of this, you know, they didn't want to talk to me.

Speaker 1 Did they feel betrayed by you?

Speaker 8 Absolutely. And you know what the DA told me? He said, we got it right.
You let him out.

Speaker 1 That is such an inflammatory, inaccurate statement because the three judges, they had to unanimously agree, right?

Speaker 8 It didn't matter. I learned what tunnel vision was with this case.

Speaker 8 They did shake Greg's hand and congratulate him, but I was told over and over again, even by the police detectives after he was exonerated, what do you want us to do? We got it right.

Speaker 8 You let him out as if I...

Speaker 8 was able to make a decision about this man spending the rest of his life in jail. It wasn't me, sir.
It was the evidence.

Speaker 1 That is so disappointing and just unjust.

Speaker 8 Very much so.

Speaker 1 What became of Jaquetta's murder case, if anything, once Greg Taylor was exonerated?

Speaker 8 Nothing. It is a cold case.
The detectives who were put on her case, they were in touch with me probably for six months because I was constantly, what is the status? What's going on?

Speaker 8 Plus, I was trying to get her things back. Never could get her things back.

Speaker 8 Where'd it dead end?

Speaker 8 And this was our last conversation.

Speaker 8 One said, all roads lead to Greg Taylor.

Speaker 8 And I said, this will be the last time you will call me with an update.

Speaker 8 Now I am done because clearly you're not going to do anything to find out who murdered my sister.

Speaker 1 How has this whole experience? I mean, I imagine this will be a difficult answer to even try to sum up, but how has it changed you and your family to have been through this?

Speaker 8 You know, I can't really speak for them. And I say that because they trusted me to get the answers.
They believed if I was fighting, that it was, it was a good fight and they were supportive.

Speaker 8 I can tell you that when Greg was awarded whatever the money is, when they realized he was wrongfully convicted, they came from the state. The state

Speaker 8 needed something from every one of us before they would pay him. So, every one of my family members had to say that we believed the decision was correct and that they got it right.

Speaker 8 Now, he did get an undisclosed amount from the SBI, but they didn't need us for that. That was a separate thing.

Speaker 8 But whatever came initially from the state for the wrongful conviction, yeah, we all had to sign something and say yes.

Speaker 1 Yolanda's story was so powerful, and it really hits home for me the thing that we talk about so much, which is the ripple effect of crime.

Speaker 1 I think there's no better representation of that in this story: that Greg Taylor is exonerated, but now Yolanda knows that law enforcement has, in her eyes, turned against her and is unwilling to continue looking into the case and to look for the person who actually committed this murder.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's such a heartbreaking part of Yolanda's story that she's sort of like punished by law enforcement who when she asks them about her sister's case, they keep saying everything goes back to Greg Taylor, which is ridiculous because he's been exonerated.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's not like Yolanda decided to exonerate him, right?

Speaker 1 He went through this incredible process with the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission and sat in front of those three judges who heard all about his first trial and what his attorneys have uncovered since.

Speaker 1 And, you know, one of those really powerful moments during his hearing was to talk about the blood evidence that was used against him, which ended up not being blood, ended up being an insect, right?

Speaker 1 And we learned the SBI analyst, Dwayne Deaver, that testifies at this three-day hearing, he admits that the evidence was faulty and he didn't give them all the facts. Yeah, that's so wild.

Speaker 1 When we were talking about this and his name came up, I knew that I had heard it somewhere else. And it's because I had recently watched the Staircase documentary, which everybody watched years ago.

Speaker 1 And somehow I never watched it. But I told you to.
And then you were like, you have to watch this. What are you doing? And you were right.
It's really good.

Speaker 1 But because I had just watched it, his name stuck in my mind because he's in that documentary. Yeah, we know now that Dwayne Deaver was actually fired by the SBI in January of 2011.

Speaker 1 There was a major investigation after this three-day hearing where he admitted to a really shady policy that they had about the way that they communicated lab results.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we talked about it in this episode that with this case, there were three tests, right? Two of them came back negative. Only one came back positive for human blood.

Speaker 1 But then I also read that that test was not 100% correct all the time. It was not.

Speaker 1 And so that was why what he should have done and what the agency should have making sure was being done is we tested it three times.

Speaker 1 Here are the results and given that information to both the prosecution and the defense. But instead, the only information was given to the prosecution that, yes, it came back positive.

Speaker 1 The defense was not told, we tested it three times. Two of those tests, which is the majority, came back negative.

Speaker 1 And the jury heard this information that Greg Taylor had human blood on the fender of his vehicle that was located right by where Jaquetta's body was found and he was convicted.

Speaker 1 And who knows if he would have been if they hadn't heard that evidence that we now know to have been really faulty. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Dwayne Deaver, whose name you recognized from the staircase, he testifies in this trial, the murder trial, where Michael Peterson is accused of killing his wife, Kathleen Peterson.

Speaker 1 And Dwayne Deaver testifies at the trial is later found to have committed perjury. He basically overstated his training and overstated the work done on this case.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if I recall, he testified that like the way that the blood spatter was on the staircase, it could only come from one angle that then sort of led into this argument that Michael Peterson could have been the only one to have, you know, caused that trauma to her head.

Speaker 1 Dwayne Deaver was fired in January of 2011. Well, Michael Peterson's defense, when it was coming out that the SBI was under investigation for these faulty tests, they were able to get him a new trial.

Speaker 1 And he ended up actually just taking an Alford plea, which is, I'm maintaining that I was innocent, but that you have evidence that could convict me. And so he is a free man.
He lives in Durham again.

Speaker 1 I think said he just lives a quiet life in a one-bedroom apartment writing books. And would he have ever been convicted if not for Dwayne Deaver's testimony? It's a good question.

Speaker 1 It makes me think of something that Jennifer Thompson said to us in our episode that came out a couple of weeks ago talking about wrongful convictions.

Speaker 1 She talked about that moment with Ronald Cotton's conviction of the woman who called and said to have seen him. And it was this big revelation that that woman had made that up, right?

Speaker 1 So she said, though, in a lot of her work dealing with wrongful convictions, there is oftentimes a bad actor. She said, you wouldn't believe how many times that happens.

Speaker 1 And we kind of see it here, too, with Dwayne Deaver.

Speaker 1 He was giving incredibly misleading information that ended up causing the jury to feel convinced that there was evidence to convict Greg Taylor when there was not.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's like the SBI and Dwayne Deaver were acting on behalf of the prosecution instead of just processing these results in their lab in an impartial way.

Speaker 1 The investigation that ends up happening into the SBI over this policy that Dwayne Deaver mentioned came back to about 200 convictions.

Speaker 1 Those people were convicted based on evidence provided by the SBI, who had these policies in place that were always going to be favorable to the prosecution.

Speaker 1 And three of those convictions had resulted in the death penalty. Oh, that's horrible.
It's horrible.

Speaker 1 That's why it's so important that we have organizations like the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission in place. 100%.

Speaker 1 Which brings us to something that we really want to talk about today, which is that the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission, which we've been talking about, we talked about this episode.

Speaker 1 It's the whole reason that Greg Taylor ended up getting exonerated. He had gone through the appeals process.
He had been denied. He was at the end of any available way forward with his case.

Speaker 1 And then the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission took a look at it. That's the only reason that we ever got justice in that case.

Speaker 1 Well, the commission is actually at risk of being eliminated right now. This is a really current thing.
The North Carolina Senate actually has already voted to eliminate it from the budget.

Speaker 1 So before we talk about that, I just want to kind of talk about the reason that it was ever created.

Speaker 1 You know, the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission, it's completely separate from the appeals process. It's a state-funded, state-run, but independent agency.

Speaker 1 And because of that, they are able to take an unbiased approach to cases. They've reviewed 3,800 cases.
There have been 16 exonerations as a result.

Speaker 1 Which I think really speaks to how seriously they take this work. Like, this is not some get out of jail free card.
3,800 cases and 16 exonerations.

Speaker 1 They are really scrutinizing the evidence that's presented to them. These have to be very, very credible inquiries into someone's innocence for them to even hear the case.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 One of the things that they also do is that as they're investigating a case, if they find more evidence that supports the guilty verdict, that also goes into the files.

Speaker 1 So they're actually able to confirm convictions as well. When this commission was formed, it had bipartisan support at the time.
It was actually a Republican Chief Justice I.

Speaker 1 Beverly Lake, who pushed for the formation of this commission. And it was popular on both sides of the aisle.

Speaker 1 Another conservative representative, Paul Stam, he stated when it was created, quote, the one thing you won't get out of this commission is a lot of guilty people being set free. It's just too hard.

Speaker 1 That goes to show you their process. One of the arguments that's happening right now, this is a Republican-led push in the Senate, North Carolina Senate.

Speaker 1 We should note that prosecutors have been lobbying for this basically ever since the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission was formed to defund it, probably because they're they're overturning some of their cases, right?

Speaker 1 But the argument that's happening right now in support of defunding it is that, well, there are other non-state funded organizations that are essentially doing the same thing, which is not true.

Speaker 1 Yes, there are nonprofits that work toward, you know, supporting people and researching potential wrongful convictions, but the thing is, is they don't have actual power.

Speaker 1 The North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission has the power to subpoena witnesses, to order DNA testing, to discover new evidence. They also have access to investigation files.

Speaker 1 You know, non-profits don't have any of that power. If they wanted to order a new DNA test, they would have to submit a court order and that could just be denied.
Right.

Speaker 1 So actually, it's not the same thing at all. Yeah, they wouldn't have Jennifer Thompson's organization, for example, healing justice.
She can't say, hey, SBI analyst that I think did a bad job.

Speaker 1 Come in. We want to talk to you.
And in the case of Greg Taylor, for example, like bringing him in really showcased not just for those judges, but for everyone in the room, like

Speaker 1 all of these other cases that had been impacted. And a nonprofit doesn't have the power to do that.

Speaker 1 So what this does is instead of having support for this sort of independent commission, it just puts all the power. back into the DA's office.
Yeah, I was reading about an attorney named Mark Rabel.

Speaker 1 I think I'm pronouncing his name correctly. And he's the director of the Innocence and Justice Clinic at Wake Forest University.

Speaker 1 And he just put it really in a way that made so much sense to me where he's advocating that we do not cut funding to the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission.

Speaker 1 And he said, nobody can dispute the fact that people are wrongfully convicted. We have a human system.
Humans make errors, so we need to correct them.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I was pretty horrified to hear that this is at risk of being eliminated because I think it is a really cool and important program.

Speaker 1 North Carolina was the first in the country to create a program like this. And, you know, I was hoping that other states would start forming them as well because we are seeing that it's a success.

Speaker 1 Currently, it's been voted on in the Senate and we're waiting to see what happens in the North Carolina House.

Speaker 1 And I just can't help but wonder thinking about like the settlements that exonorees rightfully obtain when they're exonerated.

Speaker 1 Like, well, Are people just trying to protect themselves from having to pay those? Maybe. I don't know.
It's a good point.

Speaker 1 So if you want to learn more about Greg Taylor's case, there is a documentary in Pursuit of Justice that chronicles his 17-year search for justice, which I enjoyed.

Speaker 1 And I also wanted to note that Greg and Yolanda are now friends and on good terms, similar to what we heard with Jennifer and Ronald Cotton. And we love the work that Healing Justice Project is doing.

Speaker 1 You can visit them at healingjusticeproject.org. That's it for our episode.
We'll see you next week.

Speaker 1 If you have a story for us, we would love to hear it. Our email is thenife at exactlyrightmedia.com, or you can follow us on Instagram at the Knife Podcast or Blue Sky at the Knife Podcast.

Speaker 1 This has been an Exactly Right Production, hosted and produced by me, Hannah Smith, and me, Patia Eaton. Our producers are Tom Breifogel and Alexa Samorosi.
This episode was mixed by Tom Breifogel.

Speaker 1 Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.
Artwork by Vanessa Lilac. Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, and Danielle Kramer.

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