Epstein Files Debacle, and Trump Spars with Zelensky in Oval Office, with Emily Jashinsky and Red Scare Hosts | Ep. 1016

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Speaker 5 Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Speaker 5 Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show and happy Friday.

Speaker 5 It's a busy end to the week today with Ukrainian President Zelensky at the White House this morning and a meeting with President Trump that could be the first real step toward peace in Ukraine.

Speaker 5 Plus, Andrew Tate back in America. Oh joy.

Speaker 5 The Epstein files were a total bust, and I have a lot to say about my day in Washington, D.C. yesterday in front of all the media head honchos.

Speaker 5 Joining me later in the studio today, the ladies of Red Scare, but first, Emily Jashinsky, D.C. correspondent for Unheard and host of Undercurrents.

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Speaker 5 EJ, how's it going?

Speaker 6 I think between me, Anna, and Dasha, this is the most Slavic episode of the Megan Kelly Show ever.

Speaker 5 If I could just get that.

Speaker 6 Mechanical Kachin. Yeah, seriously.

Speaker 5 I love it. And not coincidentally, very beautiful women as well.

Speaker 5 All right, let's start with the absolute bust of Epstein.

Speaker 5 This was such a joke. So I'm not.
Everything about this was poorly handled. Like, I'm a big Pam Bondi fan.

Speaker 5 I love that she's running DOJ.

Speaker 5 One of the things she's doing right now, which I greatly appreciate, is she's dropping all the bullshit Biden DOJ investigations into various police and fire forces across the country for not lowering their test standards so that more women could get involved or changing the test so that more African-Americans qualified than actually passed the test.

Speaker 5 They were getting sued by Biden's DOJ, left and right. Today she's dropping them all.
Great. She's doing a great job.
But the Epstein file thing was a disaster.

Speaker 5 They embarrassed themselves and it seems like a totally unnecessary thing. Like they stepped on a rake for no apparent reason.

Speaker 5 What happened yesterday was a bunch of right-wing influencers were invited to the White House and they were given binders that said like Epstein phase one, like the phase one release.

Speaker 5 Okay. That was interesting.

Speaker 5 You know, it was, I'm not going to lie, this was a little awkward because it was very celebratory.

Speaker 5 And the Epstein story is about his alleged molestation and inappropriate behavior with very young girls.

Speaker 5 So it's just one of those things you got to be careful because you don't want to look like you're celebrating anything having to do with that.

Speaker 5 But I understand that the celebration was around the fact that finally we might be getting the full story on Epstein.

Speaker 5 So they got those files, those folders from Pam Bondi. They had sat in a meeting, according to them, with Pam Bondi, who gave them the files.
Like, here they are. Here's Tranche 1.

Speaker 5 And absolutely nothing was in them. It came out later from those influencers, among others, who I think were also disappointed.

Speaker 5 Nothing, absolutely everything in there was already known. Not a single new thing was printed or offered.
And this whole thing had been some sort of Europa dope.

Speaker 5 I don't think it was designed to make any of the right-wing influencers look dumb, but they were not well served. by the DOJ yesterday.

Speaker 5 The DOJ should have been more careful before they did that to some of the most ardent allies to the Trump administration. It was kind of bullshit.
I was pissed on their behalf.

Speaker 5 And then by the end of the day, what you had was Pam Bondi firing off a nasty missive to Cash Patel saying, where are my files? I demanded from the FBI that they all be given to me. They weren't.

Speaker 5 I've been told by a whistleblower the FBI withheld. certain critical Epstein documents.
When I spoke to you earlier, you were as surprised by this as I was.

Speaker 5 So then why did they go through the exercise of doing this

Speaker 5 with the influencers? Because it looks like the timing on that was she knew before she gave them those binders that she had been strong-armed or stiff-armed by the FBI.

Speaker 5 And so, the whole thing wound up being somewhat embarrassing unnecessarily for I think the well-meaning right-wing influencers that showed up there, willing to report on whatever news was given to them.

Speaker 5 P.S., it was nothing. On Pam,

Speaker 5 on Cash Patel, and for what? Why? I don't, why did this have to happen?

Speaker 6 I think you just hit on the crux of the problem for them, which is they were, on the one hand, they're trying to have it both ways.

Speaker 6 On the one hand, they were saying this was a big document dump, the first step towards total transparency. They're about to purge the deep state and expose names.

Speaker 6 And that's basically what Pam Bondi said on Jesse Waters' show the other night, before the night before all of this happened.

Speaker 6 And then they want to have it the other way, too, which is that, well, we always knew this was going to be underwhelming because we were being thwarted by, as they're saying, SDNY, the Southern District of New York.

Speaker 6 So it doesn't make sense that they actually went public and said this is, you know, a huge step towards transparency.

Speaker 6 And then at the same time, also said, actually, it's nothing because we're being thwarted by the deep state. Like two of those two things can't be true at the same time.

Speaker 6 And it seems like they were in a rush to get documents out because they're under a lot of pressure.

Speaker 6 This was a huge Trump pledge to actually release all kinds of information, whether it's JFK files, MLK files, Epstein files. This is going to be a really big problem for Pam Bondi.

Speaker 6 And Megan, I don't know if you've sensed this. I've sensed the White House is really upset with the Department of Justice over this, just talking to people in the last 24 hours.

Speaker 6 Like they feel this was a huge error because the optics were so bad, because it turned so many people in MAGO world against each other so early in the administration.

Speaker 6 It may seem like a silly sideshow thing, but I actually think it was a pretty significant blunder that's going to have ripple effects in the days and weeks to come.

Speaker 5 I felt bad for those influencers. I mean, many of whom I know and think a lot of, who got, I'm sure, very excited by the call to go meet with the Attorney General of the United States.

Speaker 5 This is not like somebody punked me who I never heard of before, who claimed he had Epstein documents. It's the sitting Attorney General.

Speaker 5 And they went, they're at the White House, like, this is a big deal.

Speaker 5 I think they went there totally in good faith and earnestly and trusted her and

Speaker 5 got humiliated by this document dump that was a nothing.

Speaker 5 Why would you take people who absolutely love you and have been very good to you and embarrass them like this? I don't get it. I'm sure it wasn't intentional.

Speaker 5 I think it was just incompetence, I guess. I don't, I'm not sure exactly how this went down.

Speaker 5 But if I were any one of those people, I would be demanding an actual explanation of what was done to me and the real information be given to me ASAP, right? Like now I've stuck my neck out for you.

Speaker 5 You've humiliated me. I better be getting whatever the FBI and or SDNY, the Southern District of New York has some of the documents,

Speaker 5 since they were the ones going after Epstein. I better be the first one to receive this stuff, right?

Speaker 5 Like instead, yesterday, we just seem to have the nasty letter from Pam Bondi to Cash Patel, like, gee, everyone's been duped. But again,

Speaker 5 the timeline appears to be she knew that before she gave out these documents. Then on top of it, they gave all the right-wing influencers talking points that

Speaker 5 sort of explain what happened and like how great this whole sequence of events was.

Speaker 5 And I guess they didn't tell them,

Speaker 5 this is just guidance for you.

Speaker 5 And a couple of them tweeted out the exact same message afterward that reads as follows. Today I met with President Trump.
Yes, it's not just Bondi. It's Trump.
President Trump, Vice President J.D.

Speaker 5 Vance, A.G. Pambondi, and FBI Director Cash Patel in the Oval.
They handed me a binder copy of the Epstein files, the most transparent administration in American history.

Speaker 5 The best part, this is just a start. A.G.
Bondi confirmed there are thousands more Epstein file documents being secretly held in the SDNY, and they will be delivered to the DOJ in D.C.

Speaker 5 by February 28th, which is today. People will be going to jail for what they've done.
So she gave them this guidance.

Speaker 5 to like tweet out, oh, this is just the first tranche, but more is coming, which was an attempt, a a nod at her knowledge that she didn't have anything in there that was new, but that wasn't transparent, right?

Speaker 5 That wasn't actually made clear. And then these guys are tweeting out the exact same tweet, right? Like,

Speaker 5 they just, and the way that's avoided is you say, this is a guide, this is guidance. This is like a suggested tweet.
I obviously, I wouldn't send out this exact thing. We're giving this to everybody.

Speaker 5 These are kind of the points. It'd be great if you could hit.
Now, if you're a journalist, you don't take that at all. You say, thank you for your tweet.
Goodbye.

Speaker 5 But these aren't, I don't think they would call themselves exactly journalists in the traditional sense, which is one of the things we love about them.

Speaker 5 But I just feel like if you wanted to embarrass these, you know, 10 people, this is exactly how you would have run this whole thing.

Speaker 6 You couldn't have descripted it better. No, I mean, it was incredibly humiliating.

Speaker 6 It makes them end up looking like Pravda, like they're taking talking points and being the useful idiots for the administration's complete blunder on, promising, overpromising, and wildly under delivering.

Speaker 6 So I actually think this is going to be a problem. I'm with you, Megan.
Like I have pretty high hopes for Pam Bondi and definitely for Cash Patel as well.

Speaker 6 But this to me feels like it'll be a big problem going forward for Pam Bondi because people like, in fact, some of these influencers, some of their staunchest allies on social media are not going to give up on looking for these files and trying to get these files.

Speaker 6 Pam Bondi was the attorney general in the state of Florida.

Speaker 6 An attorney general in the state of Florida over the time period in which she was there would know a lot of stuff about what was happening with the Jeffrey Epstein case, presumably.

Speaker 6 And so there's just going to be a lot of questions. Remember, Alex Acosta, Trump's first labor secretary, was really involved in the sweetheart deal.
Like, this is serious.

Speaker 6 The Florida connections aren't great here.

Speaker 6 So I think this is going to follow Pam Bondi, unfortunately.

Speaker 5 I mean, everybody's still interested in Epstein, I think. I heard some people being like, who cares? I'm like, no, I care.
I actually really would like to see what's in the files files if, if,

Speaker 5 look, I'm not expecting it to be like appointment Bill Clinton to see 13-year-old on Epstein Island, you know, June 2006. That's not going to be in there.

Speaker 5 That's just a joke.

Speaker 5 But.

Speaker 5 There could be a client list. Right now, it's just his contact list, which we've already seen.
And by the way, being in Jeffrey Epstein's contact book does not mean anything.

Speaker 5 It really doesn't mean anything. Like, I have tons of people in my phone's contacts with whom I actually have almost nothing to do, whatever.

Speaker 5 They like contact you one time, you exchange info, it doesn't mean anything. What we need is more.
Like who actually was a frequent repeat visitor on Epstein Island, right? That would be good to know.

Speaker 5 We have some names,

Speaker 5 but what's being promised is like, there's more and it's juicy and that's why it's been withheld by these people. And maybe something about his death.

Speaker 5 Like people have genuine, natural questions about that. Do you think we'll get any answers?

Speaker 6 I think it's going to be really difficult for them to not provide answers. And the question for me is: do the answers they provide continue to sort of look like what yesterday looked like?

Speaker 6 And I mean that when it comes to JFK, MLK, and all of that, because Trump was on Joe Rogan as he was courting young men, a very important demographic for him in this last election, talking about how this stuff was all going to come out.

Speaker 6 And so, is it just going to be an underwhelming drip, drip, drip, as a lot of cynics always predicted? Or is there going to be substantial information released?

Speaker 6 I have a really hard time seeing them politically getting away with not infuriating all of the, like, again, some of the same people that were at the White House yesterday. If

Speaker 6 all this time goes by and they never produce anything, I think the hope is that what they don't keep trying to do is manipulating the public by tossing scraps and acting like it's a really big deal.

Speaker 6 There are potential loopholes in the JFK EO.

Speaker 6 I actually sent a comment request to the CIA a couple of weeks ago about whether they're planning to use some of those loopholes and they gave me a non-response, but this stuff is going to build.

Speaker 6 We're a month into office. So I don't really think they have a choice.

Speaker 6 One thing we know quickly that the FBI has is discs that were confiscated from Jeffrey Epstein's townhouse that have like blank name plus

Speaker 6 blank name on these disks. They said that these are things that they took from the Epstein townhouse in New York.
So there really are specific tangible records we know they have.

Speaker 6 And as those questions keep building and building, good luck if you're going to continue ignoring that after promising so much.

Speaker 5 I mean, it's, it's,

Speaker 5 I think it was Elon who tweeted out today,

Speaker 5 like, things don't change on a dime. And I think he was suggesting.
Pam Bondi's there, Cash Patel's there, but the whole staff hasn't changed at DOJ or FBI, and certainly not at SDNY.

Speaker 5 And so I think he was telegraphing, like, give them a minute to try to get the troops in line.

Speaker 5 I agree with all of that, yes, but then don't overpromise, don't make a big show of things, don't embarrass your most loyal supporters by pretending you're giving them some big scoop, only to have the internet say there's absolutely nothing here at all that's new.

Speaker 5 Like, all of this is just, like I say, it's like the procedure around it was so poorly done.

Speaker 5 And then, on top of everything we just discussed, for some reason, the House Judiciary Committee, which I gather is run by Jim Jordan, tweeted out like a joke about it.

Speaker 5 People expected, like, the tease was suggested that they look, it reads: breaking. It's at judiciary DOP, Epstein files released.

Speaker 5 And you click on this link and it shows you the, well, here's what it shows you.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 5 It's Rick Asley, who is referred to as being Rickrolled, which is like a punk.

Speaker 5 So, anyway they wound up having to delete that tweet because so many Republicans and conservatives did not find it funny and were just generally pissed off about how the afternoon went yesterday.

Speaker 6 Well, yeah, and it's totally missing the moment. It's completely tone deaf.
And what they were trying to do, I suspect, from that was throw SDNY.

Speaker 6 They were trying to troll SDNY and say, you know, this is what happens when you try to get records from the deep state. You know, you're just going to keep getting Rick rolled.

Speaker 6 So I think it was intended to have that target, but it was indicative of how indelicately the situation was handled for a

Speaker 6 very serious matter to many, many people in the whole country, but especially in the Trump base. It was just, yesterday was a real disaster for them.
And they kind of knew it.

Speaker 6 You sensed that they knew it as it was happening, that it was a disaster and were trying to cover their asses.

Speaker 5 Here's the other thing that bothered me about it.

Speaker 5 There were people there like Chaya from from libs of tick tock um even jack pasobiak who with whom i have a very checkered past like we haven't gotten along well but i have to say he he's i i've grown to really like him and his twitter feed is fire and he actually has had a lot of scoops um he was one of them chad pranther uh he's a good guy down in texas uh podcaster

Speaker 5 so

Speaker 5 Dragging these people to the White House and using them in this way undermined their credibility, to which I object. Like Libs of TikTok has been,

Speaker 5 she's been a heroine, a heroine in this whole DEI battle, in the whole gender madness battle.

Speaker 5 Like truly, this to me almost seems like a Biden psyop to try to undermine the growing credibility of independent people who have been breaking big news.

Speaker 5 and important voices in our country. And it was like, how could we take the legs out from under them? Right.
So it's like, look, they'll recover.

Speaker 5 Nobody's blaming them, I think. You know, people understand this was done to them, not exactly by them.

Speaker 5 But now you've also put them in a position where they feel like they have to defend the White House because they were given this, quote, scoop and met with the president.

Speaker 5 You know, it's like all very fraught. And somebody, I don't know.
I'm not sure if somebody's head needs to roll, but like.

Speaker 5 Something should be done. If I were Pam Bondi, I'd definitely be giving these people the exclusive of the real information so that you can rehabilitate the people you, for some reason, hurt.

Speaker 6 Yeah, and part of what this looks like to me is they actually were trying to bring influencers in and give scoops to people who have cared about the issue and have been supportive of the administration.

Speaker 6 And when they realized that this was going to be like not.

Speaker 6 what they promised, they still tried to go ahead with it and they laid the spin on extra thick to make up for under delivering, which is a horrible, horrible idea.

Speaker 6 You can see how when things are happening really quickly, like it's Veep behind closed doors in DC, you would do something like this, but it's really, really stupid.

Speaker 6 I think probably at someone's head should roll because they took a lot of built-up credibility with these online influencers who have been supportive of them, have stuck their necks out for them.

Speaker 6 And this is a reputation blow. I mean, I agree.
I think they'll recover, but for some people, they'll probably never have the same level of reputation.

Speaker 6 In one way, though, I think this could be a good thing, which is my advice to people who start covering Trump world is that they are really friendly if you're supportive.

Speaker 6 But if you want them to take you seriously,

Speaker 6 you have to like kind of be serious and be, you know, show that you're willing to be extremely skeptical.

Speaker 6 The people that they take most seriously are the ones that are willing to like play hardball too.

Speaker 6 And so I think in a sense, for the influencers, this could be a good lesson that like you can be supportive. Like if you support Donald Trump, great, like go support Donald Trump.

Speaker 6 But, you know, there are some people in his orbit that aren't always going to have your best interests in mind. So be skeptical and be rigorous when you go into situations like these.

Speaker 5 Well, it is complicated, right?

Speaker 5 Because there was a report yesterday that Trump had an event at the White House on women in sports, boys, you know, playing in girl sports and women in sports, and invited a group of outspoken women on this issue to the White House.

Speaker 5 And online, there were some complaints that Some of the women who had been invited to the first signing of the EO, like Riley Gaines and some of the others who've been in commercials with her and so on, were not invited back.

Speaker 5 Oh, this is, I think, because yesterday or the day before, it was about NCAA. The NCAA

Speaker 5 made a deal of like going along with Trump's EO, like, okay, we're not going to allow boys in women's sports. And it turned out to be full of loopholes.

Speaker 5 I mean, all of my women who I follow on this issue online have been jumping up and down, very pissed off at the NCAA for trying to make it look like they're on board with the Trump EO, but actually creating a policy through which any truck could be driven.

Speaker 5 And so the NCAA hasn't satisfied team reality when it comes to sex and gender at all. And they've been outspoken about it.
That includes Riley and some pointing out that she was not invited back.

Speaker 5 The White House saying, well, we just wanted to make room for other athletes. But look, let's face it.

Speaker 5 You know, who among us hasn't been burned by criticizing, it could be the Trump White House, could be the Biden, whatever, someone in power with whom you were getting along, and then you do something that pisses them off, and you get put in the penalty box.

Speaker 5 I will say my own experience with Trump, and I think I'm a great person to speak to this, is you may go into the penalty box for a time, but you will come out of the penalty box.

Speaker 5 Trump can get mad at you. I'm sure his staff can get mad at you, but they're not real grudge holders.

Speaker 5 So, my advice to all these people is just hold on to your integrity, you know, report it as it comes, whatever, whether it makes them look bad or good, and both your audience and the man you so admire will get past it.

Speaker 6 Yeah, and you know, be someone that they respect, not someone, I'm not saying they should treat people flippantly, they shouldn't, especially people who have had their backs, but make them respect you.

Speaker 6 And this is a good lesson, I think, for people in Trump in this administration, like respect the people who have been loyal to you. Otherwise, you end up looking like jackasses.

Speaker 6 And that's absolutely what happened yesterday. So, I mean, it seems like this was just a like moving catastrophe because they were rushing to get stuff out.
They knew they were under pressure.

Speaker 6 And there are a million different ways this probably could have been avoided and could have done better. But once, you know, the wheels get turning in DC, things can get messy really quickly.

Speaker 6 So maybe it's a lesson, but I also just think this created a problem that's going to follow them. Like this is going to be a hole that they have to dig out of.

Speaker 6 It makes the demand on them to produce real records, like to really unseal things, to really declassify things, to really release things. I think this actually just ratcheted up the pressure on them.

Speaker 6 They're not going to be able to get away as easily with not producing documents.

Speaker 5 I agree. So we've botched round one of the big Epstein file release.

Speaker 5 And at the same time in the news yesterday was the return of the despicable Tate brothers to the United States.

Speaker 5 Now, I don't know much about the brother Tristan, but I've seen enough about Andrew Tate to realize he's a disgusting pig misogynist. And that's fine.

Speaker 5 You can be a disgusting pig misogynist and live in the United States of America. It's really not much of my business.

Speaker 5 His return to the United States, okay, I don't really care. I mean, he's an American citizen.
He's got dual citizenship, US and UK.

Speaker 5 So I guess he's allowed to come back because supposedly these charges against him for sex trafficking, et cetera, in Romania, some have been dropped due to some prosecutorial.

Speaker 5 negligence in the case and others are remaining. They're supposed to go back to Romania in the next year year or so to go answer more.

Speaker 5 They're also facing potential charges in the UK, same type of thing. What I care about, because I don't know the legalities and I haven't looked into them, so I'm not going to

Speaker 5 tie them up there.

Speaker 5 What I know is he's a disgusting, vile creature with whom I want nothing to do. And the more influence he has over the young men of America, the more my stomach turns.

Speaker 5 And it's because Andrew Tate is not just an alleged criminal, put that to the side. He's just a very bad man.

Speaker 5 And I'll give you an example in this budded slot that we've pulled, which will give you a feel for why I loathe him.

Speaker 8 They didn't teach you in self-defense. Here's a little move: when I grab you by your neck and you start annoying me, trying to resist, and I just

Speaker 8 and then I grab you by your neck again. Then what the fuck are you gonna do when your face is collapsed and your fucking cheekbones broken? You ain't gonna do shit but cry.

Speaker 2 I guarantee I changed the way you look at sex forever.

Speaker 9 You're gonna be fucking crying. I won't cry.
I bet you cry, bitch. I bet you fucking cry.
You're saying I wouldn't cry. You're challenging me to a fight.

Speaker 9 You're saying I can't hurt you. You're out of your fucking mind.
I don't even have to fuck you. Forget the sex part.
That's a distraction. My dick can stay in my pants.

Speaker 9 I'll just start beating the shit out of you. How about that? We walk in the bedroom.
I start kicking your ass. No sex.
No sex involved.

Speaker 8 But you cry then. I perfected this in pimp school.
When I got my PhD, we had to practice if a girl comes at you,

Speaker 8 hey, you cheated. You cheating.

Speaker 8 It's bang out the machete, boom in her face, and then grip her up by the neck. But shut up, bitch.
Her panties get wet. The machete's on the floor.
Her panties are all wet.

Speaker 5 You go, fuck her.

Speaker 8 That's how it goes. Slap, slap, grab, choke, shut up, bitch.
Sex. These are the basic moves in a pimp.

Speaker 5 Okay. Credit to Milk Bar TV for putting together that montage.

Speaker 5 We have ones we could go through that would take us all day with young women in tears about what they claim he did to them,

Speaker 5 about alleged beatings. I mean, videotapes that purport to show that.

Speaker 5 We haven't been independently able to verify this stuff, so I'm not going to put it on the air. I'm just saying there's a ton.
You could swim in an ocean of that stuff around this guy all day long.

Speaker 5 And for some reason, his status has somewhat divided conservatives. Like there's a faction of the right that is celebrating.
him and I guess his brother too, their return to the United States.

Speaker 5 There was even a report that Rick Grinnell,

Speaker 5 who has been getting hostages out of places like Venezuela, was instrumental in orchestrating their return. He's denied it, but there was,

Speaker 5 it's been admitted that he at least had a conversation, I think, with a Romanian foreign minister about the Tates.

Speaker 5 Now he's claiming, you know, he didn't insist that they be allowed home, but suddenly they got released to come back home.

Speaker 5 So I don't know what the truth is there either, but I'll tell you what I do know, and that is that there is a group called

Speaker 5 the Tampa Bay Young Republicans, which is a young Republican group down in Tampa Bay that has decided to invite this guy and his brother to come speak to them. This is what they tweeted out.

Speaker 5 TBYR formally welcomes these two guys to Florida. As free speech absolutists, the Tates haven't been formally convicted of any crimes and are welcome to speak to our group.

Speaker 5 We're old enough to remember when a convicted felon won the presidency. Like every claim against any Republican Republican is bullshit, Emily.

Speaker 5 And like all we really need to care about is whether you're facing criminal charges as opposed to whether you're a piece of human excrement.

Speaker 6 Which, by the way, actually makes, does no favors to Donald Trump to lump him in to lump the lawfare against Donald Trump in with like extremely serious charges.

Speaker 6 And I also am not like, I haven't gone deep into the weeds on whether or not there's some legitimate lawfare weaponization happening against the Tate brothers.

Speaker 5 And they've denied all the charges. I should remind people, but keep going.

Speaker 6 Right. Yeah.
And, you know, that's what

Speaker 6 the Tampa Bay Young Republicans statement, I actually thought that was really interesting too, because they are directly drawing this line, Trump to Tate, which is, I think, a pretty bad sign for the right.

Speaker 6 And when I talk to some young men, especially, they'll, I mean, you could roll that montage for them and they would be like, yeah, we know. We're not saying he's a good person.

Speaker 6 We're saying he's right about masculinity and femininity. And so the argument becomes like, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Speaker 6 Like, we know this guy is awful, but he's doing some good things for young men.

Speaker 6 He's speaking to us and he's entertaining us and appealing to us for all these reasons because he's saying something about masculinity that the mainstream doesn't want to hear.

Speaker 6 Thus, the charges against him are because people in the mainstream

Speaker 6 are just threatened and they don't believe in the differences between men and women, etc., which is true, by the way.

Speaker 6 But opposing Andrew Tate is not something that you do just because you are someone who's gatekeeping and are in the mainstream, which means that it ends up pushing people to affiliate with him.

Speaker 6 And so, as much as I despise gatekeeping on the right and support free speech as the Tampa Bay young Republicans do, there's such a difference between appreciating the boundaries and understanding that free speech is real and important,

Speaker 6 and like actually then affiliating yourself with this dude. So, it's kind of unfortunate that we're just in this situation.
And for young people, they're lost.

Speaker 6 And it's no wonder that they end up going to, you know, gravitating towards someone like Andrew Tate, who, by the way, he is so emotional, you think he was a woman, Megan. I mean,

Speaker 6 he's the least masculine clips that I just saw. He's like running a multi-level marketing scheme.
Like he's selling leggings on Facebook Marketplace and whining about

Speaker 6 truly

Speaker 6 significant others.

Speaker 5 And let's face it, I mean, only a sad little man would be talking about how he's going to beat the hell out of a woman. He's, and I punch her in the face, I punch her, but all right, tough guy.

Speaker 5 All right, okay, right. And not no real man would actually behave that way.
Never mind, brag about it. That's the thing.

Speaker 5 So it's like, I look at the men I know in the conservative movement and they're absolutely lovely. Most of them tend to be married.
They have long-term marriages.

Speaker 5 They have families that they love and support. And there's absolutely nothing even questionable about their romantic choices or their love lives.
Not to say nobody's ever made a mistake.

Speaker 5 I'm just saying that this is not representative at all of the new right.

Speaker 5 And when we talk about what's been done to men and boys on the right,

Speaker 5 this is not the antidote. Like this actually is toxic masculinity, people.
This is

Speaker 5 what the real version of it. And in our, you know, push to say, stop using that absurd term over anybody who just stands up for himself and

Speaker 5 manliness, masculinity, stop using that term. We're right.
But then we too need to be able to look at the Andrew Tates of the world and say, that's what you're looking for right there.

Speaker 5 And we condemn it too.

Speaker 6 Yeah, it's so easy. And people like Josh Hawley and Ben Shapiro and you, Megan, have come out and been really clear on this.

Speaker 6 Like you can be all for free speech and you can be against the left's ridiculous standards about sex and gender and still say this guy is a piece of garbage. He doesn't need to be listened to.

Speaker 6 You don't have to pay attention to him.

Speaker 6 I think the problem is that there are so many young men that have been poorly served by elites and by media that now they are way more susceptible to people like Andrew Tate who come in and offer something that feels sort of intoxicating and it feels like it's true appealing to your masculinity.

Speaker 6 And it's like,

Speaker 6 the problem, it's really, really dangerous then for anybody in, I think, Trump world, the new right to play footsie at all with with tate because it validates that there's something going on there um and with him there really isn't like so i'm sorry that he you know it has like a six pack i don't think that you know makes him interesting or compelling as an example of masculinity at all i mean this guy's so vile i really hope he doesn't get platformed by any group never mind a republican group um talk about bad for the brand there it is there is a world of difference between donald trump and Andrew Tate.

Speaker 5 Andrew Tate is what the left thinks Donald Trump is. Okay?

Speaker 5 Try not to lean in, young Republicans.

Speaker 5 I really hope they reverse their decision. There's been no formal invitation.

Speaker 5 There's been no acceptance from what I've seen, but they're just proudly waving it around out there like they think this is a virtuous course. Okay, shifting gears.

Speaker 5 Yesterday, I went down to Washington, D.C. after I taped the show yesterday early in the morning, which is why it's a little shorter than normal because I had to catch a flight.

Speaker 5 So I go down because Ben Smith, formerly of the New York Times, formerly of BuzzFeed, now runs and founded Semaphore, which is trying to be a less partisan news outlet.

Speaker 5 Like they do more than just politics. And he asked me if I would go down and speak at his kind of conference.
And I said, yes. I know him a little bit from the summers.

Speaker 5 He and I go to the same place on the Jersey Shore at times.

Speaker 5 And so I said, yes. And while I like Ben, I have to say, my own experience was Ben doesn't understand what we're doing at all.
Not here at the Megan Kelly show, not with what you do, Emily, online.

Speaker 5 He's still stuck very much still in legacy media. And I would submit to the audience that his questions to me showed that.

Speaker 5 It also showed a lack of familiarity with what we do here on this particular show and what I sound like in anchoring this show. So I put together.

Speaker 5 some of the questions just so you could see what I'm talking about and you'll get you'll get a feel for his questions here in SOT 5.

Speaker 10 Was appear on stage with President Trump on November 4th, my birthday

Speaker 10 in Pittsburgh, and say President Trump gets it, the reasons you're voting, lists the reasons you're voting for him, a lot to do with masculinity, which I want to ask you about later.

Speaker 10 And I wonder how you think about that in terms of does it compromise you as a journalist? Do you benefit from this environment in which people are losing trust in everyone else and turning to you?

Speaker 10 I think your audience probably, I would guess, mostly voted for Trump, but I know lots of people who watch you and didn't.

Speaker 10 Do you worry that they can't trust you, that as you cover him going forward, that they'll kind of think you're in the tank?

Speaker 10 But ultimately, you depend for information on the people that you're criticizing, don't you?

Speaker 10 Do you ever feel like it would be better if you had a producer occasionally, like in the old days, being like Megan, maybe that's too much?

Speaker 10 I was talking to another broadcaster the other night, and she said, you know, one thing Megan does that is most of us don't do is go after other people in the media really personally.

Speaker 10 Like, there's sort of a gentleman's agreement in a lot of media to not attack each other personally. You had a very heated riff on, I'm forgetting her name, but the mother of Elon Musk's latest child.

Speaker 10 The bulk of YouTube is always going to be, here is like an incredible monologue that went viral.

Speaker 10 Do you feel like you've been shaped by the medium, that you've been pushed into these sort of like more heated monologues, these kind of

Speaker 10 maybe more confrontation? I don't know. There's something about that kind of monologue that's about trying to go viral.

Speaker 5 Wait, what I said about Elon's partner and the baby would have been nothing, but she decided to go public and then to play the victim. And my point was simply.

Speaker 7 You went after her.

Speaker 5 okay. So perhaps you've gotten a flavor of what Ben Smith thinks of the Megan Kelly show.

Speaker 5 It does not appear that he is a daily watcher. It appeals that he's, it appears he's been consuming his information about us from left-wing blogs, which is, I guess, not a surprise.

Speaker 5 But I personally felt that that was a really gross, grossly unfair characterization in those questions. And that's, those are the questions he asked.

Speaker 5 I think there was like, there were two others that weren't about, you know, my particular show.

Speaker 5 That I just thought it was very slanted against what we do here and he obviously i think has an upturned nose when it comes to digital media in general and i'll give you one other just to kick it off emily and that is you heard him say there that you spoke for president trump the night before the election and you were very focused on masculinity like that's why you were voting for donald trump masculinity which is also totally false and not what i said at that rally What I said was, he's under fire right now for having said he will protect women.

Speaker 5 And I believe he will protect women.

Speaker 5 And I welcome that both on behalf of myself, my daughter, and other people's daughters, because I think he'll close the border and we won't have more Lake and Rileys.

Speaker 5 And I think he'll close women's sports to men and boys. And

Speaker 5 we won't have more Peyton McNabbs, the girl who got hurt in North Carolina thanks to the spiked volleyball in her face. That's what I said.

Speaker 5 And I also spoke of the forgotten boys in this country and what's been done to them as we've demonized boys over the past 10 years.

Speaker 5 It wasn't about fucking masculinity, but that's what a leftist hears when you say that kind of stuff about President Trump. Anyway, your thoughts on it?

Speaker 6 Well, I mean, it would be if he had been peppering those questions to you as like a devil's advocate, that may have been different.

Speaker 6 But that's, I think you're right to say that's how he was actually characterizing the show. And it sounds to me like he's not familiar with like what you do regularly on the program at all.

Speaker 6 I agree, because if you had been listening to or watching the show leading up to the election, you would have had all of the context of how seriously you took those issues, how deeply you covered those issues, and how much they mattered to you, whether it was sports, immigration, whatever.

Speaker 6 And all of that would have made way more sense.

Speaker 6 But if you're only getting your information sort of dripped out through, you know, the coverage from liberal bloggers and people on Twitter, then yeah, that sort of sounds exactly like my impression of the questions.

Speaker 6 And by the way, another thing it misunderstands, I mean, I think even to ask the question about whether you wish you had a producer, I thought the implication was that, you know, maybe you're, you know, you're going off the rails too much or whatever.

Speaker 6 But by the way, the reason people like this medium is because of they get both the like level of the quality and analysis and sophistication and political commentary, but they trust it more because they see you with no filter.

Speaker 6 And that's the whole point.

Speaker 5 Yeah, exactly right.

Speaker 5 It's so funny to me that, you know, here's this man, formerly of the Times, formerly of BuzzFeed, looking at me, you know, the lady anchor, like, wouldn't it be better for you if somebody were able to control you so you didn't get, you know, go off the rails so much?

Speaker 5 Like, and I, of course, I was like, no. I mean, just the implication of it.
Like, I'm not responsible for what I say. And I, I wish someone could come into this show and put the bridle on.

Speaker 5 Poor Steve Krakauer just isn't able to do it. It's so ridiculous.
It's ridiculous. That's not how it's it's ever worked, frankly, between me and my producers.

Speaker 5 Though at Fox, I understood there were guardrails in terms of how to behave on cable news. So here

Speaker 5 he pivots from that Trump speech I gave the night before the election into this. This is where he takes it, Sat 2.

Speaker 10 I mean,

Speaker 10 I think your audience probably, I would guess, mostly voted for Trump, but I know lots of people who watch you and didn't.

Speaker 10 Do you worry that they can't trust you, that as you cover him going forward, that they'll kind of think you're in the tank?

Speaker 5 No, not at all. I mean, our numbers are huge.
You know, I know you just had CNN on.

Speaker 5 In January,

Speaker 5 last month, on their YouTube feed, they got 155 million views, and we were 147 million.

Speaker 10 Just me. Is your cost structure slightly lower?

Speaker 5 Is that what you're doing? Exactly.

Speaker 5 Well, I'm just saying, that's one show, the Megan Kelly show, just me and my six producers, versus every single show on CNN, every single thing they put on YouTube, I was within six or seven million of them.

Speaker 5 The month of the election, November, I beat them. I beat all of them.
By the way, I beat NBC, I beat CBS, all of them regularly, the Sky News. November, I beat them all, all of them.

Speaker 5 ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, all of them. So I'm not having a trust issue.

Speaker 5 Right.

Speaker 5 He's suggesting people aren't going to trust you. They're going to think you're in the tank.
Like, aren't you a hack now? Because you spoke for Trump.

Speaker 5 And again, this is why I say, like, he doesn't watch the show. He doesn't understand what we do.
Everybody listening to the show right now knows I do criticize Trump and his administration plenty.

Speaker 5 I mean, just look at our show yesterday where we opened up, this is before I sat with him, talking about how I did not agree with what they were doing on the press pool, right?

Speaker 5 Like Trump didn't speak to me for the better part of late 23, early 24, because he was angry about that interview he gave me where I pressed him on some of the law fair questions. It's not pleasant.

Speaker 5 It's not pleasant to be on the wrong side of the president. I like him, so I want him to like me, but my job and my integrity is more important to me.

Speaker 5 But all these questions were geared toward you've sold your soul, you've become a hack, you just do things to get patted on the head by the president and youtube views

Speaker 6 yeah and that's a that's the other thing i i thought was interesting from that question is that again like you we spent the first part of this show talking about how the white house screwed up yesterday i mean you don't need to it's not like you you have to like miss one episode and then you're out of the loop like you do this all the time that's why people like you and trust you so it's actually part of the trust.

Speaker 6 Part of the trust is built into you being like, yeah, I think people should vote for Donald Trump. Here is why.
And then you can assess my coverage of Trump's policies.

Speaker 6 You can assess my coverage of Kamala Harris's proposals through that lens. It's actually like his question is completely missing the point.

Speaker 5 It's a difference between owning your bias and then proceeding, you know, accordingly, trying to do the best you can as a fair commentator and journalist, or just pretending it doesn't exist.

Speaker 5 and then leaning into your bias because you want to express it through the news coverage, which you are pretending is fair and objective, right?

Speaker 5 It's like, this way I tell you what I'm rooting for, then I try to give you fair coverage. And anything I say that's opinion, you know, is from that perspective.

Speaker 5 What the mainstream does, so-called, is they don't own any of their bias. They claim they have none.
And they just manifest it through their alleged fact reporting, which is just so pernicious.

Speaker 5 I mean, that's why they're failing. All right, here, here was the capper, right? So we get to the question.

Speaker 5 about Tucker Carlson. Years ago, Tucker was doxxed.
These hateful leftist groups showed up at his home in Washington, D.C., where his wife was alone.

Speaker 5 One of his children may have been home as well. I can't remember right now.
But for sure, Tucker wasn't there, and his wife was in there and scared.

Speaker 5 They were angry, and they were chanting, and they were getting all on his lawn.

Speaker 5 He had been doxed, and now his wife was threatened. And Ben Smith actually tried to compare my comments the other day about Rachel Maddow's sanctimony to that.
Watch this.

Speaker 10 Years ago, protesters went to Tucker Carlson's home.

Speaker 11 I think you probably both remember that very vividly.

Speaker 10 You called it at the time stomach turning and said it has to stop.

Speaker 10 But, you know, it's funny, I was talking to another broadcaster the other night, and she said, you know, one thing Megan does that is most of us don't do is go after other people in the media really personally.

Speaker 10 Like there's sort of a gentleman's agreement in a lot of media to not attack each other personally. And that

Speaker 10 I don't know if you think that's true, it's a broadcast person.

Speaker 7 Why don't you do it?

Speaker 5 You know, Google Megan Kelly, NBC, and tell me whether the the journalists

Speaker 7 don't go after each other personally.

Speaker 10 Madow's public complaints and sort of

Speaker 10 said that she should put up or shut up, basically. But also about her expensive real estate, about her homes.
And I am curious, like, do you have any compunction about getting that personal?

Speaker 5 No. I would never give out her address.
That would be a bridge too far, and it doesn't compare to what happened to Tucker in any way, shape, or form.

Speaker 5 But Rachel Maddow got out there and tried to act like, oh,

Speaker 5 I'm a woman of the working class. I'm here to represent the poor staffers who could lose their jobs now as a result of Joy Reed biting it.
And meanwhile, she's collecting $25 million a year.

Speaker 5 She's got multiple homes worth millions. You know what? Why don't you take a $2 million pay cut and save 10 of those jobs? If you feel that sad, you don't even have to pay it out of your bank account.

Speaker 5 Just tell them, pay me $23 million next year instead of $25. She won't do it.

Speaker 5 She wants to seem virtuous and sanctimonious, but in fact, she's only the latter because she won't actually put any money on the line.

Speaker 5 And an example of the exorbitant life she leads while she's trying to remind us, oh, I've worked so many jobs, the jobs I've worked, puts to the point her hypocrisy.

Speaker 5 What'd you make of that one, Emily?

Speaker 6 That's incredible.

Speaker 6 I mean, the way that Tucker ended up getting all of these insane protests is that people were actually doxing him and they were encouraging protests outside of his home to make him uncomfortable.

Speaker 6 It was the point of the protest. So it was, I mean, that question is grossly, grossly unfair.

Speaker 6 And also, I think baked into it was that hilarious assertion laundered through this broadcast person that apparently said, you know, it's just very unusual to go after people.

Speaker 6 It's like, no, no, no, it's unusual for libs to go after other libs.

Speaker 6 Like, yes, the rich liberals do not go after the rich liberals, but they will absolutely take shots at people that are not, you know, coup in their like book club circles on the Upper East side.

Speaker 6 Like, give me a freaking break. What are you talking about?

Speaker 5 That's right. They don't go after each other if it's another liberal.
That's exactly right.

Speaker 5 But if you're a conservative, you've been fair game for a long time, which again, Ben Smith does not understand.

Speaker 5 But just as a refresher, my my team did put together a few examples of people violating the gentleman's agreement about which we know nothing and I've been in cable news for 20 years here it is

Speaker 5 black Santa truther Megan Kelly of course there's more from Megan Kelly who seems to be sometimes the world's angriest multi-millionaire I mean look it works for her podcast

Speaker 5 you know magnifying minorities picking up on fringe issues Megan Kelly the black face expert the Jesus and Santa or white lady is not going to crawl her way back to social relevance.

Speaker 8 She owes a bigger apology to folks of color around the country.

Speaker 15 That's silly, and it's disingenuous, and it's just as ignorant and racist as the statement itself. She said something stupid.
She said something indefensible.

Speaker 5 This Kremlin propagandist, Tucker Carlson. The image he was portraying on Fox, I would actually argue it's un-American.
It's a darkened heart. That's right.

Speaker 5 That comes from a darkened heart.

Speaker 1 The idea of Tucker Carlson being in that mob that day and not wetting his pants is hard to imagine.

Speaker 5 I think Tucker Carlson gives a lot of air time to hate for the LGBTQ community. He is heinous.

Speaker 17 He is vulgar. He's atrocious.
The stuff Tucker and Laura Inglum say every night

Speaker 17 could be written by white supremacists. And there's a section of this manifesto where the shooter starts talking about people always say diversity is strength.
I can hear it in Tucker's voice.

Speaker 17 He says this all the time, right? But the benchhapieros of the world say that.

Speaker 5 To our most prominent white nationalists, he arguably has done more on cable television to spread the gospel of hate, fear, and paranoia than anyone since radio propagandist Father Coughlin in the Nazi era of the 1930s.

Speaker 18 The worst thing about it is that Tucker, to me, was always a dumb person's idea of what a smart bigot sounded like.

Speaker 1 The most racist show in the history of cable news.

Speaker 5 It's weird how I didn't get the memo on the gentleman's agreement that Ben Smith and his anonymous broadcast source received. Hello, wake up.

Speaker 5 As they say in that one of my favorite movies, get in the game. These people have been slinging it at us for years.

Speaker 5 And if they can't take some mild, hey, she's rich and sanctimonious pushback, I mean, there's what more can we say?

Speaker 6 No, I mean,

Speaker 6 they'll do it when somebody like transgresses the boundaries of their ideological comfort zone.

Speaker 6 So this is the only way that you can break the gentleman's agreement is just being like outside of what's like considered polite society and these like awful corrupt media circles so i i mean just

Speaker 6 you're like the worst person to ask that question

Speaker 5 because it's so obvious that the question is premised on something insane well it's funny because he said you know that she said there's this gentleman's agreement and i laughed and said why don't you try googling megan kelly at nbc and see and he had no interest in following up and the other thing was he said i said the relationship between me and my audience is authentic and it's tight we're close and and they've got my back

Speaker 5 in part because if I do make a mistake, I will correct myself. And he said, well, have you like what? And I said, well, like, I was way too

Speaker 5 believing of the COVID vaccines and the manufacturers that if something went wrong or people had serious side effects, that they would do something about it.

Speaker 5 They would own it and do something about it. And I was dead wrong.
And I've owned that with my, and he moved on.

Speaker 5 He couldn't have gotten off of that faster. He was like, oh shit, that's not what I was hoping you were going to say.

Speaker 5 He was like, I was only hoping you'd say something that would be pleasing to me and not this and my audience here.

Speaker 6 No, that's annoying because like Ben is, I think, one of the smarter people in media and he can be really interesting. Semaphore can be really interesting.

Speaker 6 So that's an unfortunate series of questions and tattling, perhaps.

Speaker 5 Well, I

Speaker 5 still like Ben Smith, and I believe that if I were to sit with him again, he would do a better job of trying to understand what it is we do here at the MK show. But as it was, it was kind of fun.

Speaker 5 Being on the opposite end of adversarial media always is. Emily, great to see you.
up next. Red scare.

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Speaker 5 It's time for some fun on this Friday. I'm joined now in person by the hosts of the Red Scare podcast.
We love it when they swing by the Red Studio. Anna Kachian.
Well, I screwed it up.

Speaker 5 Kachia, Kachian. Kachian, you guys.
I was screwed it up, Anna. Sorry, Kachian.

Speaker 5 And Dasha Nekrosova, ladies, welcome back. Thank you.
Thanks, guys. Great to have you.
Great to see you. Nice to see you here.
And we've got our martinis made by Doug Brunt. So here's to Doug.

Speaker 5 Cheers, Doug.

Speaker 5 Love Doug Brunt.

Speaker 5 Great to have you back. Great to be.
And perhaps appropriate for our Russian vodka. That's nice.

Speaker 5 Or not, given the circumstances. President Zelensky is sitting in the Oval Office right now, and it's not going well.

Speaker 5 This is just coming across the wires. We've got a soundbite.

Speaker 5 Apparently, what this particular exchange you're about to hear off is Zelensky was maintaining that Trump, he's sitting there with Trump and JD, that Trump cannot trust Vladimir Putin, and things went downhill from there.

Speaker 5 Watch.

Speaker 19 I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country.

Speaker 18 Yes, but if you're not going to be able to do it.

Speaker 11 Mr.

Speaker 19 President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Obal office and try to litigate this in front of the American media.

Speaker 19 Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conversation.

Speaker 20 Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?

Speaker 19 I have been to

Speaker 21 come once.

Speaker 19 I've actually watched and seen the stories, and I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President.

Speaker 19 Do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military?

Speaker 11 We have problems.

Speaker 19 And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?

Speaker 21 We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel.

Speaker 20 I'm not telling you.

Speaker 11 Because you're in no position to dictate that. Remember this.

Speaker 21 You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel.

Speaker 21 We're going to feel very good.

Speaker 21 We're going to feel very good and very strong.

Speaker 21 You're right now not in a very good position.

Speaker 11 You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position.

Speaker 20 From the very beginning of the war, you're not in a good position.

Speaker 11 You don't have the cards right now.

Speaker 21 With us, you start having cards.

Speaker 11 Right now, you don't care. You're playing cards.

Speaker 11 I wear serious.

Speaker 21 You're gambling with the lives of millions of people.

Speaker 21 You're gambling with World War III.

Speaker 11 You're gambling with World War III.

Speaker 21 And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country.

Speaker 11 I'm going to

Speaker 11 ask you.

Speaker 5 OMG, Zelensky said this right before those exchanges.

Speaker 5 We signed a deal with Putin. He did not keep it.
What kind of diplomacy are you talking about?

Speaker 5 saying that, you know, President Trump's attempts to solve this diplomatically aren't going to work. And you can see that did not go over well

Speaker 5 with either of the two men he really could use on his side.

Speaker 5 Just so the audience knows, you were born in Russia.

Speaker 5 Yeah, and you're from Belarus.

Speaker 5 Originally,

Speaker 5 Soviet Union. Yeah, right.
So, I mean, you understand this region of the world a bit. What did you see there?

Speaker 5 I feel like a child of divorce. This brings me right back to like my parents feuding in our living room.

Speaker 5 I don't really get Zelensky. I don't have a good theory of mind for him outside of him being an actor and he's he always acts like he's like in a Liam Neeson or Tom Cruise action film.

Speaker 5 He seems kind of uppity and entitled when people are trying to extend an olive branch.

Speaker 5 Yeah. I mean he's been

Speaker 5 doing his like begging for money tour for years. Oh.

Speaker 5 Oh no, you're good.

Speaker 5 You get it.

Speaker 5 So yeah, he seems frustrated. Yeah.
But it just, when I look at that, I'm like, why would you do anything other than be magnanimous and frankly, like

Speaker 5 suck up to President Trump, who's got the deepest pockets of anybody who's helped him and could help him, and is very interested in striking a deal to wrap this thing up.

Speaker 5 Now, whether he likes the terms or not, that can all be negotiated, but why put him in an angry mood while you're in the oval? He hasn't read the art of the deal. No.
He doesn't know how to strike it.

Speaker 5 Does he think that the money will dry up if he

Speaker 5 plays nice with Trump? Because he's so used to receiving larges from like the Biden administration and establishment Democrats. Like, is that the reasoning there? I have no idea.
I assume so.

Speaker 5 And there's a new sheriff in town. Like, he's got a, this is the man right there.
That man with the crazy blonde hair needs to like you. needs to believe in you.

Speaker 5 And we'll play more as we get it, but this is absolutely foolhardy of uh zelensky you get invited to the oval office there's really only one posture you can take you maintain your dignity of course yes as a foreign leader you're you're entitled to do that on behalf of your people but right he shouldn't be groveling as trump says he's not in a good position he has a very low approval rating people are not a fan of this war that i mean we've been saying is a it's obvious i think is a proxy war right of course and he's saying you're going to get us into world war three you want world war iii trump's saying that he's not wrong i mean russia has nukes This is one of the reasons why people over here have been so concerned about the increasing aid we've been giving, the increasing weaponry we've been giving.

Speaker 5 We do not want a nuclear war with Russia at all, especially over Ukraine and whether it's going to join NATO or have this slice of territory, its or Russians. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 I mean, I was surprised by how contentious this exchange is. It almost feels staged or something.

Speaker 5 I mean, I assume it's not, but I'm sure you guys are familiar with like the Marco Rubio comments recently. He's been doing a pretty good job.

Speaker 5 And he he was talking about how historically when they try to negotiate with Zelensky,

Speaker 5 he kind of meets them halfway and accepts some of their terms and then goes back and blabs to the media that like, no, I rejected this decision or this treaty unilaterally.

Speaker 5 Which is what just happened on this minerals deal, where Marco, you know, they never have the presidents meet directly before they've had the diplomats meet directly.

Speaker 5 And the diplomats are supposed to strike the deal. And only when the deal is struck do you then put the leaders together so they can just look like, yay, we're winners.
Look what we did.

Speaker 5 So Rubio said that he met with his counterpart in Ukraine and that they reached a deal on the rare mineral earth materials, that they were going to start giving us some portion of them to pay us back for all of our investment there and also to keep us economically invested in the harvesting of those minerals on a go-forward basis, which Trump sees as a security guarantee for Ukraine.

Speaker 5 If we're over there, our economic interests are over there mining these minerals, Putin, his theory is, will be less likely to invade again or do anything to upset Ukraine. So that's where they got.

Speaker 5 Marco Rubio said it publicly. Zelensky suddenly said there's no deal.
Rubio comes out and says, this guy constantly does this. You know, like, we did have a deal.
Now he's saying no.

Speaker 5 Then the news came, yes, there is a deal. And Zelensky comes to the Oval and apparently uses it as an opportunity to tell Trump, once again, he can't trust Putin.

Speaker 5 I mean, this is just dumb. This is dumb diplomacy on his part.
But here's another soundbite we just got.

Speaker 5 It is Trump telling Zelensky, we gave him $350 billion

Speaker 5 of our money. Watch.

Speaker 21 Your country is in big trouble. Can I ask you?

Speaker 11 No, no.

Speaker 21 You've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble.
I know. You're not winning.
You're not winning this.

Speaker 21 You have a damn good chance of coming out okay because of Mr.

Speaker 20 President. We are staying in our country, staying strong from the very beginning of the war.
We've been alone, and we are thankful. I said, thank you.

Speaker 21 We gave you through this stupid president $350 billion

Speaker 11 for your military equipment.

Speaker 21 You warned me. And you men are brave, but they had to use our military equipment.

Speaker 21 If you didn't have our military equipment,

Speaker 21 if you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks.

Speaker 5 He's not wrong. No.
This did not go well, ladies. Listen to this.
Here's some reaction.

Speaker 5 Of course, the New York Times Peter Baker, who hates Trump with the passion of 10,000 sons, tweets out, never has an American president lectured the leader of an ally in public like this, much less the leader of a country that is fighting off invaders.

Speaker 5 Well, what if a leader attacks the president and doesn't appreciate the amount of money that's been invested by his country, Peter?

Speaker 5 The New York Times reports Zelensky flashed a thumbs up as reporters were escorted out of the oval, asking my own team, did they escort reporters out before the meeting was over?

Speaker 5 Is that what happened? Do we know? All right, that's what we think happened. Perhaps they were continuing the meeting in private.
Peter's wife, Susan Glasser, of the New Yorker, who is horrid.

Speaker 5 I can't say enough bad things about this person, tweets out, this is the most shocking behavior by Trump and Vance I've ever seen in the Oval. An ambush.

Speaker 5 Well, we'll have to go back and watch it from the beginning. Tommy Victor, who's a former Obama guy and also a troll, one of the co-hosts of Pod Save America.

Speaker 5 These fucking assholes lecture and condescend to Zelensky and then fluff Putin at every possible opportunity. Absolutely disgraceful.
This is going to be talked about for a very long time.

Speaker 5 We're witnessing a very important moment right now.

Speaker 5 What do you make? I mean, I think if Peter Baker is against it, we're for it. Sure.
I mean, I

Speaker 5 want the war to end. That's how I feel.
And I don't think it would have started.

Speaker 5 It would have been an office.

Speaker 5 Okay, sorry. Say again.
Say again, Steve.

Speaker 5 Oh, God. What?

Speaker 5 There's a press conference that's going to start soon.

Speaker 5 Wow. I don't like my chances on how well that's going to go.

Speaker 5 I don't know. I'm distressed by this because we were close to getting this thing done.
Like nobody else was close to getting it.

Speaker 5 And it's not going to end in a way that the Ukrainians are going to like. That's just the truth.

Speaker 5 What happened was we were looking at forever stalemate and escalating war or this, where at least we stop the losses. We come to some sort of an agreement in Ukraine where we're at least there.

Speaker 5 economically, which I agree with Trump would be somewhat of a deterrent to Putin.

Speaker 5 But the other side that wants a better deal is not wrong, that it feels like surrender and that Putin's going to get to keep the territory. Well, you know,

Speaker 5 that's the thing. It's like the terms

Speaker 5 didn't work out. It wasn't winnable.
Yeah. And Zelensky almost feels like a Patsy who is elected to facilitate a tremendous loss for Ukraine.
And he's wildly impossible.

Speaker 5 He doesn't want to lose, or he doesn't want to stop the war. That's my feeling.
Do you guys talk to

Speaker 5 people in the Eastern European community?

Speaker 5 Do you have a feel on how people are taking this whole saga?

Speaker 5 I mean, I think in New York City, like the Russians and Ukrainians and Belarusians that you meet tend to be on the liberal side.

Speaker 5 So they're pretty vehemently anti-Putin and pro-Ukraine, whether or not they like Zelensky personally.

Speaker 5 So it's not like an exactly unbiased sample of people. I just don't talk about it

Speaker 5 with my parents. Are your parents more pro-Zelensky? Oh, yeah.
And you guys are not that pro-Zelensky? No.

Speaker 5 For the same reasons as we've been discussing. Yeah.
Yeah. That the war has been, to me, seemed very corrupt.
But how do you see through it?

Speaker 5 How did you manage to like see that as opposed to, you know, it's like with that influence around you with people you love and trust from the region?

Speaker 5 I mean, I guess I remember, obviously, like... Putin is responsible for his actions.
When the war started, there was a whole narrative about whether or not he was crazy.

Speaker 5 And to me, it didn't seem crazy to not want NATO on your border and that he was sort of provoked into starting the war.

Speaker 5 Putin's not crazy. I don't think he's crazy.
He's a rational actor. I've said before, too, and this is controversial, but I actually don't think he's evil either, which I know is also controversial.

Speaker 5 But I just think if...

Speaker 5 In Putin's head, this is all very rational, that he's got to protect Mother Russia.

Speaker 5 He can't have NATO on his borders, and he will do what he thinks is necessary to protect his country and its long-term existence, and also the hope of restoring Mother Russia to her former glory.

Speaker 5 Yeah, um, now, I guess you could use that same rationale to say, well, Hitler wasn't evil either because he believed he was doing the right thing, but I just do think Putin is a rational actor who can be negotiated with, and that's kind of what Trump has been saying, which is like this war never should have started.

Speaker 5 The whole NATO discussion shouldn't have gone on, and frankly, the U.S. shouldn't have been meddling over there from 2014 forward.
And I don't think NATO wants Ukraine, Yeah.

Speaker 5 It's they certainly don't want to back them now.

Speaker 5 Yeah. So I guess Zelensky is going to keep forcing the issue.
I mean, I think traditionally Russians

Speaker 5 who live in the West are like so against the old communist system. And I think maybe they view Putin as an extension of that sort of authoritarianism.
And they can't kind of

Speaker 5 get around that. or accept that the world is different now.
So that's probably part of their reaction.

Speaker 5 I would love to go back and we will. You'll see this all weekend and you'll see it here on the show on Monday to the start.
Like

Speaker 5 what was the beginning? What set it off?

Speaker 5 How did things start to unravel?

Speaker 5 And how did it start to go downhill? This is going to dominate. This feels like a very large news event.
And more on this as we get it.

Speaker 5 As we get more sound bites too, I'll play them for you. All right, let's move on to other more lighthearted fair.
Let's get some softballs. Yeah, because it's crazy.

Speaker 5 Actually, you guys were great people to have here, you know, given everything that's happening. It's not like Israel and Hamas, but like you have some connection.
Sure.

Speaker 5 All right, so, but it is a Friday. We do like to discuss some lighter cultural fair on Fridays if we can.
And that brings me to Ashley St. Clair.

Speaker 5 Now, I, look, that was one of the other things that I had with Ben Smith when I went to his conference in D.C. yesterday.
He was upset that I, quote, attacked Ashley St. Clair, that I went after her.

Speaker 5 That's what he said.

Speaker 5 And he was acting like I was bullying her in some way. Well, I never would have mentioned the name of Ashley St.
Clair. She was not on my radar.

Speaker 5 I've never attacked Elon's other baby mamas.

Speaker 5 I don't care. If like these women want to strike that deal with Elon, it's none of my business.
Good on him if it works for everybody.

Speaker 5 The difference with this woman is she knew completely what she was walking into.

Speaker 5 And then when the benefit of that bargain came exactly as one could predict it would come, which is no meaningful relationship with him, no Valentine's Day together.

Speaker 5 She got upset, sent out a nasty tweet, claimed a tabloid was doing an in-depth investigation on her, which never broke.

Speaker 5 The only one who ever reported on this was the New York Post because she gave them a photo shoot inside their, quote, lavish apartment. With feet pics and an incorrectly arranged chessboard.

Speaker 5 Oh, I didn't notice that, really? Are you a chess player? She is. Oh, my God.

Speaker 5 That's impressive. Yeah, there it is.
Yeah, here are the feet, the naked feet, with her floor-to-ceiling windows in an apartment almost certainly funded by him. Yeah.

Speaker 5 I think we'll

Speaker 5 see if he kept her in isolation.

Speaker 5 Yeah, the knights and the bishops

Speaker 5 need to be swapped, but I'm impressed. Well,

Speaker 5 that's a true chess player to see that in the photo. So what do you make of the fact that now she, you know,

Speaker 5 she wants us to feel sorry for her. That's what I believe.
She's sad about the consequences of her own life choices, and she definitely doesn't want publicity.

Speaker 5 Do not believe the pictures of her in the corset in the new york post doesn't want it yeah she's wearing like a dark lauren sanchez look where it's like the lauren sanchez inauguration fit but all black yeah um no i said this on our podcast when we covered this topic like sometimes i feel personally sort of undignified when we like post selfies or show our meme coin and then there's like these influencers out there on social media doing like Maury Povich paternity stuff.

Speaker 5 It's crazy.

Speaker 5 So now she has sued Elon that's in the news today for paternity

Speaker 5 and accuses him of going dark on her. And Elon tweeted out something to the effect of,

Speaker 5 I have taken care of every child I've ever fathered and generously, if ever there's been a breakdown, it's because the demands have been exorbitant.

Speaker 5 So he didn't name her, but it seemed to be a clear reference to, trust me, I'm going to take care of every child I sire, but I'm not going to be made a fool of

Speaker 5 and start giving out billions to 26-year-olds who I slept with once in St. Bart's, which appears to be what happened here.

Speaker 5 And we were sort of speculating on whether they actually like knocked boots or if it was an IVF baby, because he has a record of that. Not really my business and don't care.
But

Speaker 5 yeah, people have dug up like old correspondences, texts of hers of like she loves.

Speaker 5 She was ready

Speaker 5 to bed him.

Speaker 5 I'm not that scandalized by that because, you know, we women say all sorts of crazy things when we have our eyes on a guy. Yes.
Like, I wish he would knock me up. That's not that outrageous.

Speaker 5 I've never said that.

Speaker 5 I have.

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 5 I think just her conduct leading up to it, that she like leaked this herself on Valentine's Day, that it was kind of like a pre-choreographed, almost Instagram-like post versus a tweet, that it had the name name and email of her publicist who does crisis management and damage control for celebrities.

Speaker 5 She claims that she was isolated in her home that she wasn't able to take a walk with her baby. She that her five-month-old baby has never been out for a while.

Speaker 5 As if someone would recognize Ashley Sinclair

Speaker 5 at all. Especially prior.
Right. Like she was nobody.
Right. Why would anybody care? That's what was bothering her.
Exactly.

Speaker 5 That's what, that was the problem. So the tweets to which you refer,

Speaker 5 she had an exchange with another online influencer where she was talking about

Speaker 5 how she really wanted to have Elon's baby. I need his rocket babies, LOL.

Speaker 5 He 10,000% saw my moon landing tweet. Then she writes to her friend, look, I'll take one for the team, seduce Elon, and get in a rocket to see what's up.

Speaker 5 Then she also said, I need a caption to seduce Elon Musk, thinking about the dangers of AI, laughing emoji.

Speaker 5 Elon replied to the thread revealing that because it was the person with whom she was texting posted the private DM exchange on Twitter and made it public. And Elon responded, whoa,

Speaker 5 which I don't know what that means, because literally, Elon, I have news for you. Every woman you're sleeping with is doing it for the same reason.
They're baby trapping.

Speaker 5 They're thinking they're going to get a private jet out of it. That's...
probably a problem for most billionaires in dating newbies.

Speaker 5 But it sounds like he's on board with that to some, like, I'm sure Ashley Sinclair is taken care of in every regard besides the amount of attention that she is getting. Which is not really up to him.

Speaker 5 It's kind of her job in life to make her own opportunities for attention. She can't count on him for that.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I also want to point out that like when people say like, well, it's understandable why she entered into this.

Speaker 5 bizarre and unpleasant arrangement because you know it's uh she's set for life and um think of the genes and so on We were talking about this on the podcast.

Speaker 5 Like, I don't think that it, it doesn't seem that like fun or worthwhile or healthy to be chained to the world's richest man financially, especially when you guys don't get along and he doesn't like you.

Speaker 5 And we'll punish you because you overstepped.

Speaker 5 And then the genetic argument is bizarre, too, because even if your kid has like the most maximized genes and the highest IQ, he's already kind of screwed because there have been idiots like squabbling on the internet about him since before he gained sentience.

Speaker 5 Yeah. I'd much rather have a child with a regular IQ and a father in the picture.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5 I, I don't know this person, but my strong belief is this wasn't about having a baby with a high IQ. She wanted to be taken care of for the rest of her life.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 She already had a baby from another man.

Speaker 5 Then she hooks up with Elon, which was clearly her goal. Okay, fine.
Oh, he's fine. I actually know people who are gold diggers.
And it's like, that's a choice.

Speaker 5 You know, if you're like a beautiful woman and you have a lot of rich men who want to like,

Speaker 5 I don't really have a problem with it, to be honest with you. I do have a problem with you then playing the victim and wanting me to feel sorry for you when he's with somebody else on Valentine's Day.

Speaker 5 And when your lavish New York City apartment isn't quite lavish enough.

Speaker 5 And I also just feel like I just do desperately want to remind young women, you don't have to go this way. You can make your own money and still wind up with somebody great.
It is a possibility.

Speaker 5 You just have to start a podcast. They say in New York you can have a good relationship, a livable apartment, or a good career, but you can only have two of those three.

Speaker 5 I deny that, man, we don't disagree. I know you think, yeah, but you're very

Speaker 5 when I started at Fox, I

Speaker 5 think my first job at Fox was $115,000 a year. I'm trying to remember because we negotiated like a, no, no, it was, yeah, they wanted to pay me under $100,000.

Speaker 5 And I said, there's no way I'm taking on under 100 with 10 years of law practice under my belt. I refuse, just on principle.
So I got it right over 100. I can't was like 105 or 110.
I can't remember.

Speaker 5 My point is, now that's, that's a good salary for sure. But I wasn't rich.
And I had to live in Manhattan, right? It was like, I had to be at work at five in the morning.

Speaker 5 First DC and then Manhattan. My point is,

Speaker 5 I have money now, but I did not always have money. I really didn't.
And my first job in TV only paid 17 grand a year.

Speaker 5 But if you love what you do, you put in endless hours. It's a labor of love.
And usually, if you're a hard worker, you will do well in the profession of your choice. She was making it.

Speaker 5 She had a million followers on X. Well, now I wonder, now you're both making the same face.
I do wonder how she got the followers. I mean, she's like an influencer.

Speaker 5 She's sort of already prostituted Jason.

Speaker 5 What do you mean? Are there influencers who are not prostituted? She is not one of them.

Speaker 5 She was in that that conservative men's calendar

Speaker 5 years ago. She has like assorted online history, a sex laptop,

Speaker 5 allegedly. Oh, I don't know.
These are things that I like absolutely don't judge her for. I don't care.
Okay. Right.
Whatever. To each his own, as you said.

Speaker 5 I wouldn't have known again who she was had she not.

Speaker 5 Exactly. Yeah.
So anyway, okay, that's enough of Ashley St. Claire.
I think we're done with her. Now,

Speaker 5 the Oscars are this weekend. Are you guys going to watch that? I guess.
Yeah. Oh, you're an actress.
I mean, I don't always watch the Oscars, but Conan O'Brien's hosting. He's funny.
I enjoy him.

Speaker 5 Our viewers may or may not remember that Dasha is a successful actress who starred in, among other things, Succession. Yeah.
Everybody's favorite.

Speaker 5 Did you happen to read the profile in New York magazine on the Murdochs?

Speaker 5 It hit in the paper version this past weekend. It hit in the online version a week or so earlier.
You might find it interesting.

Speaker 5 They went back and found all the actual court filings in this hideous fight that's going on between Lachlan and Rupert on the one side and James and Liz and Prudence

Speaker 5 Murdoch on the other side.

Speaker 5 And there was this whole big hearing out in Reno, Nevada on what's going to happen with his trust. And they got all the transcripts.

Speaker 5 So you're seeing the actual testimony of the actual Murdoch and what's happening.

Speaker 5 You might find it really fascinating starting that series.

Speaker 5 But okay, so I used to watch the Oscars religiously and I looked forward to the fashion and just to see who the winners were.

Speaker 5 And it was a time when there weren't 15 nominees for best actor and best picture,

Speaker 5 and when you'd seen all the movies, yeah. Now, I was looking at the list, I think I've seen one.
Like, I saw Conclave.

Speaker 5 That's all I've seen. I don't even recognize the names of the others.
Yeah. And the ceremony itself has changed, and they're woke-ified, and they're annoying.

Speaker 5 And this Amelia Perez seems to be the favorite to win everything, which is about some very manly, tranny.

Speaker 5 Like, I

Speaker 5 don't know what are we rooting for?

Speaker 5 Has anyone seen Amelia Perez? I'm really curious. No, because I can't tell if it's like a spoof or what.
People are mad that it's not like

Speaker 5 it doesn't actually offer like a like a enough, there's not enough woke ideology in it, I guess. Okay, that sounds promising.
We have a clip. If you haven't seen the clip, you must.

Speaker 5 I think we may have seen the clip. There's a bit.

Speaker 5 Hello, very nice to meet you. I'd like to know about sex change operational.

Speaker 5 Man to woman or woman to men

Speaker 13 Man to woman From penis to vagina

Speaker 13 Is it for you

Speaker 5 For me

Speaker 13 What would you like to know about it?

Speaker 5 I want to know it all What is the protocol? The techniques and the risks How many operations How much time do you need

Speaker 12 Mammoplastic Vaginoplasty yes pino plasty yes laringo plasty yes mamo plasti yes fasci no plastic yes pino plastin laringo plasty control laringo plasty what is that atoms up for reduction yes yes yes

Speaker 5 yeah amazing is just something in these martinis or did that actually just happen

Speaker 5 that's that's cra that was that's one of the best picture nominies and it's the favorite well it's a musical i'm willing to give it you know i want to give

Speaker 5 I think it could have some merits, you know. Here's why it's not gonna win.

Speaker 5 The lead

Speaker 5 trans person

Speaker 5 is controversial,

Speaker 5 was tweeting out a bunch of stuff that does not make Hollywood happy. No, um,

Speaker 5 okay,

Speaker 5 Carla Sophia Gascon,

Speaker 5 who is a man pretending to be a woman,

Speaker 5 um,

Speaker 5 has got a bunch of tweets out there that criticize like George Floyd.

Speaker 5 Hold on, let me see. Islam.
Yeah, I'm trying to find it. The Oscar ceremony itself.
Islam is becoming a hotbed of infection for humanity, and that urgently needs to be cured.

Speaker 5 Then about Selena Gomez, his co-star. She's a rich rat.

Speaker 5 He's the poor bastard whenever she can and will never stop bothering her ex-boyfriend, Justin Bieber, and his wife. Okay, there's more.

Speaker 5 Attached to a photo of a Muslim family he saw at a restaurant, including a woman in a burqa, tweeted, Islam is marvelous. Without any machismo, women are respected.

Speaker 5 And when they are so respected, they are left with a little squared hole on their faces

Speaker 5 for their eyes to be visible on their mouths, but only if she behaves. Although they dress this way for their own enjoyment, how deeply disgusting of humanity.
And here's the last one.

Speaker 5 There are more, but the last one I'll read here.

Speaker 5 I really think that very few people ever cared about George Floyd, a drug-addicted swindler, but his death has served to once again demonstrate that there are people who still consider black people to be monkeys without rights and consider policemen to be assassins.

Speaker 5 They're all wrong. And it goes on from there.
So what does that do to Amelia Perez's chances?

Speaker 5 Well, didn't they kind of drop her from

Speaker 5 the press from the fact that they is going to attend the Oscars? Yeah. But I I actually think Conclave's going to win because Pope Francis is on his deathbed.
Yes.

Speaker 5 So people become more interested in papal enclaves.

Speaker 5 And they definitely want to suggest there will be an intersex hope on death

Speaker 5 in the Catholic Church. That's what we're hoping for.

Speaker 5 You want to trans

Speaker 5 black woman for the papacy? It's about time. Sure.

Speaker 5 Sure. I kind of low-key love.
Carla, Sophia, and Gaston. They're pretty moderate and pretty on point.
Welcome to our side. Come on the pod.

Speaker 5 No disrespect to George Floyd because we have the same music taste and I can relate to him not knowing how to boil water, but she's right that this person was kind of sanctified, not for the stated reasons, which is that people were locked down due to COVID and were mourning the loss of their own lives, not his lives.

Speaker 5 They wanted to get out and protest because they were angry. about everything being shut down.

Speaker 5 Well, it is funny because some of those are more incendiary, but the vast majority suggest suggest that this person is really a conservative yeah and doesn't go along with these identity politics which makes the whole transition even more bizarre but i mean we've got caitlin jenner who's not into identity politics either and has you know done the so-called transition so i like i do think he's being treated the same way anyone who had been outed as a conservative would be treated yeah which is with horror yeah but was it's crazy yeah but he's but he's nominated for best actress i know Yeah.

Speaker 5 Just think about the sentence I just said. I know.
I know.

Speaker 5 I was thinking about this.

Speaker 5 I wonder what your guys' take is on this because it doesn't seem to be the same thing as like

Speaker 5 men competing in women's sports where they have a distinct physical biological advantage.

Speaker 5 This seems kind of more nebulous, but it is also kind of awkward and weird to have a person who is a biological male compete in the best actress. I don't think he's got any advantage.

Speaker 5 That is kind of funny. Like there have been some of the sports where I'm like, where, is there a a natural male advantage? Like

Speaker 5 pool,

Speaker 5 billiards. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Yeah. That was one where the women were like, no, we don't want the men here.
And I'm like, is that one where,

Speaker 5 but I think the

Speaker 5 complaint was, they say yes. Chess.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Why is it?

Speaker 5 Well, why? Why is chess separated? Well, men are, you know. Smarter?

Speaker 5 What? Not in like, you know, just in terms of strategic thinking, the kind of thinking that chess is. There's a reason.
Is that true? I mean, there's a reason like all the grandmasters are men.

Speaker 5 I mean, one does have

Speaker 5 really good female chess players. Yeah, like you're not saying net net, they're smarter.
You're saying certain areas of thinking. In like the excellent outliers of like competitive sports.

Speaker 5 And when it comes to directions, I guess. Yeah.
That's definitely another one.

Speaker 5 And then we have the advantage over them when it comes to certain other things, like how to organize one's life. Yes.
And discipline. Yes.
With a soft hand.

Speaker 5 Exactly. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 But I think I love this story. I just learned about it today on the way here in the car.

Speaker 5 And I just, I love when the kind of elites, like woke politics, come back to bite them in the ass because they'll foreground, like showcase these people with like

Speaker 5 alternative identities. And then it turns out that they don't always like fall in line or fit the bill.

Speaker 5 And they claim to like respect identity, but what they really want is to people to, they demand conformity, you know?

Speaker 5 And you can be like gay, black, trans, disabled, whatever. If you air conservative views,

Speaker 5 you are suddenly exiled from like the progressive stack. Ask Caitlin Jenner.

Speaker 5 Ask

Speaker 5 Clarence Thomas. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Carol Swain was on the program last week, professor of all the elite universities, but as soon as she started to think more heterodox, in a more heterodox way, especially on race, she was kicked out of the squad.

Speaker 5 Doesn't matter, black woman,

Speaker 5 they loved her. Nope.
Tulsi Gabbard, she was like the next rising star in the Democratic Party. She's like, she's non-white.

Speaker 5 She's like, she's got a lot of firsts behind her. Yeah.
When it comes to her religion and so on, and a woman, but she backed Bernie instead of Hillary. She had to be taken out.

Speaker 5 Then she said a bunch of stuff about the Democrat Party not being fair. Her career was over.
And with the Academy, I mean, don't, a couple years ago, I think it was after Ellen DeGeneres was canceled.

Speaker 5 She got mean-toed.

Speaker 5 I enjoyed that one.

Speaker 5 But they couldn't even find someone to host.

Speaker 5 It was either the Oscars or the Golden Gloves, but like, there wasn't anyone that they could even find because they couldn't, there wasn't anyone who's never said anything non-problematic. Right.

Speaker 5 And who wants someone who's never said anything non-problematic in the arts? I know. Come on.
It's boring. Yeah.
And it stands to reason that

Speaker 5 If you're the type of person who would change your entire gender identity, you probably have other problematic things going on in your life. Good point.

Speaker 5 A simple Google search might have served them well prior to that nomination. I don't think that this person is going to win the best actress.

Speaker 5 And that's a good thing for the other reasons. All right, now wait, more from the Zelensky meeting.
Fox just reported that the Zelensky Trump presser is now canceled. Oh, wow.
What a shock.

Speaker 5 A statement from President Donald J. Trump, quote, we had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today.

Speaker 5 Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure. It's amazing what comes out through emotion.

Speaker 5 And I have determined that President Zelensky is not ready for peace if America is involved. Oh, God.

Speaker 5 Because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. I don't want advantage.
I want peace. He disrespected the United States of America in its cherished oval office.

Speaker 5 He can come back when he is ready for peace. Oh, my God.

Speaker 5 Damn. This did not go well.

Speaker 5 I can think of another guy who disrespected the United States of America and the cherished Oval Office.

Speaker 5 Bill Clinton. Yeah.
Yeah. Oh, there we go.
Yeah. Well, that's in the news now, too, which is a first award in that Zelensky thing.
He will come back.

Speaker 5 I predict he will come back to the Oval Office and he will come back on bended knee because there's no resolving that war without us.

Speaker 5 Yes, he will come back and he will grovel.

Speaker 5 There is no resolving that war without us. No, I mean, we started.
we started it.

Speaker 5 We're paying for it. If we just pull all of our support, it's over.
Russia will take Ukraine. Europe can't do it without us.
Like Van said, yeah, they don't care to have.

Speaker 5 I mean, they've lost, they've had so many casualties. They're like

Speaker 5 in scripting people.

Speaker 5 Does he want, as he's trying to foster a closeness between Putin and Trump even more so?

Speaker 5 Yeah. As soon as we pull our support, it's over for him.

Speaker 5 He can't go in there and play tough guy, Zelensky. And of course, this isn't the all-ars this.

Speaker 5 Because then Russia takes it all. But I almost think it would be funny for America to rage, quit, and pull out

Speaker 5 and leave them to their own devices. Right.
Well, we'll see. I mean, Trump, he's a very good negotiator, and this feels like negotiating.
This is what you do. Yeah.

Speaker 5 When the other side's totally unreasonable. And we learned this in Los Angeles.
And they don't have any leverage. Right.
And when the other person's just being a douche, you get up and walk out.

Speaker 5 Like you just, you don't even have to negotiate against that. It's just, okay, bye.
And you you know they'll call you because they need you more than you need them.

Speaker 5 I don't know whether Zelensky was a douche. I'm just saying if one believes one's negotiating partner is,

Speaker 5 and he certainly did not sound like he was in the right emotional posture for somebody in his position without the cards.

Speaker 5 Okay, wait. Where are we just going to go? To Monica Lewinsky, of all people.
This is the weirdest hour of news ever. The original Ashley Synchron.

Speaker 5 We'll take a break and then we'll talk about blowjobs in the the Oval Office. Standby on that.

Speaker 5 We have more to discuss with the ladies from Red Scare right after this break.

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Speaker 5 I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM.

Speaker 5 It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today.

Speaker 5 You can catch the Megan Kelly Show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr.

Speaker 5 Laura, Flynn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megan Kelly. You can stream the Megan Kelly Show on SiriXM at home or anywhere you are, no car required.
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Speaker 5 This just in Zelensky just just left the White House. Kind of a good observation by Sagar and Jetty, who writes, keep in mind, Zelensky has probably been talking this way to Biden for years.

Speaker 5 He's not wrong.

Speaker 5 That's true. Good point.

Speaker 5 Before we get on to substantive news about Monica Lewinsky, so we're like at the bottom one-fourth, I'd say, of our Doug Brunt-made martinis, which are absolutely delicious.

Speaker 5 He's a good mixologist, no. He's amazing.

Speaker 5 This is what he does on his podcast called Dedicated with Doug Brunt, where he talks to authors about their books. And what he does is he gets your favorite drink

Speaker 5 and then he makes that for you during the show. And then he and the guests drink it and talk about their books.

Speaker 5 The writerly film. He put it on YouTube as well now.
Yeah, so he's got a YouTube version, but he does it once a week.

Speaker 5 We've actually gotten a lot of fun drinks out of that, like ones we never knew about.

Speaker 5 This is more popular than I knew, but I never knew about the French 75.

Speaker 5 It's, I don't know if it's half and half, but it's gin and champagne or Prosecco. And like Blackberry, or it's some kind of syrup.
I know, I might have forgotten this. Oh, and lemon.
Lemon.

Speaker 5 Well done, though. Look at you.
That's a Kier Royale. Okay, I'm done.

Speaker 5 That's just the kind of thing you want to order. That just sounds like Kier Royale.
It makes you sound cooler. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Here's what happened after the last time you guys were here. This is, I only drink this when you come.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 it didn't go well when I had to read the ads after the show. Here it is.

Speaker 5 I've never done the ads after a martini. Maybe I have, and I just don't remember, but I'll do my best.
Every day, the rhetoric gets more and more divisive.

Speaker 5 There's panic, with some people willing to say or do anything if they think it will help their side win. There's so much uncertainty, which explains why so many people.

Speaker 5 Designed to be incredibly breathable, it keeps you several degrees cooler for a night of uninterrupted rest with a durable weave.

Speaker 5 That's so cute.

Speaker 5 What is a durable weave? Durable weave. I don't know what were you weave? I don't remember.

Speaker 5 Yeah,

Speaker 5 it was sheets, but like a durable weave. That's funny.
That's funny even without a martini.

Speaker 5 And then ultimately, my husband Doug had to step in because he and I drank an eggnog in Christmas. And when I tried to do it, same thing happened.
He had to step in and read the last ad for me.

Speaker 5 So you're not a big drinker.

Speaker 5 I mean, I kind of, I guess I'm not. I thought I could hold my liquor, but I don't usually have something like this, quite this strong during the day.
Yeah. Yeah, right.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 This is why we've never gone beyond being an extremely niche

Speaker 5 cult podcast because we're just wasted all the time.

Speaker 5 But you're, you know, I was just saying this to, um, I think it was my hairstylist today who I love.

Speaker 5 I was like, this is what I love about these two because you both are so interesting. You have that flat affect.
You've got this great sense of style. You obviously love each other.

Speaker 5 Like, I love your friendship. But you say things that are totally unexpected.

Speaker 5 There are too many people who say stuff that you've heard everywhere else. Right.
And so, while like you, you don't deliver it with all sorts of

Speaker 5 flair physically or emotionally, the substantive points are always interesting and they're unexpected.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that's what's special about you. We appreciate it.
So nice. So I would like you to unleash your specialness on Monica Lewinsky, who went on the sex podcast, Call Her Daddy.

Speaker 5 And I mean, I will give credit to the sex podcaster. This is more your realm.
This is better. You should stick to this instead of the Kamala Harris.
You did better here.

Speaker 5 And here

Speaker 5 is,

Speaker 5 okay, here's, she asked her a good question.

Speaker 5 What is the name of the sex podcaster? Alex. Cooper.
Thank you. Thank you.
Forgive me.

Speaker 5 She asked Monica a question that I don't think she's gotten asked before.

Speaker 5 And that's saying something about the Clinton scandal, which was, what would you have liked him to do when the whole scandal broke? That is a good question. That is it, right?

Speaker 5 So I think we have that queued up. Let's watch it.
SOT 39.

Speaker 5 I think that

Speaker 23 the right way to handle a situation like that would have been to probably say it was, you know, nobody's business

Speaker 23 and to resign, you know, or to find a way, to find a way of staying in office that was

Speaker 23 not lying and not throwing a young person who was just starting out in the world under the bus. And at the same time, I'm hearing myself say that.

Speaker 23 And it's like, okay, but we're, we're also talking about

Speaker 23 the most powerful office in the world, you know?

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 I don't want to be naive either.

Speaker 5 Interesting.

Speaker 5 Did they fix up the set to look more presidential? I'm not sure what was going on. Right.
Did it cost $100,000? It didn't look like the common one. Why didn't the budget go into her pants?

Speaker 5 I have a real issue with those black and white, black and red checkered

Speaker 5 It's an issue. I don't hate them.
I think she looks good. You don't hate them? She looks amazing.
She looks better than she did, as you pointed out when the scandal originated.

Speaker 5 I think we all look better than we looked in the 90s. True.
I mean, you know, I have to say, she does too.

Speaker 5 It's fine. There's zero way, a chance a president would ever resign

Speaker 5 in the wake of a scandal. But I am of two minds.
Like, I'm really torn about Monica Lewinsky because Clinton is a douchebag in many ways. That's clear.

Speaker 5 Yeah, he definitely me too'd her, you know, with the power imbalance and all that. Sure.

Speaker 5 She really took a beating in the public eye. I mean, a severe beating in the public eye, and she was very young.

Speaker 5 But on the other hand, she made the choices she made. When you're 22,

Speaker 5 you have knowledge about the risks. She was young, she wasn't, you know.
Yeah, so what do you see? She was clearly attracted to

Speaker 5 his power, and she was flattered by the fact that he took a liking to her as

Speaker 5 the leader of the free world. Like, I guess, who wouldn't be?

Speaker 5 The one thing I can say that really, I guess, red-pilled me against feminism was the reaction of mainstream establishment feminists to Monica Lewinsky,

Speaker 5 like Gloria Steinem, all the bigwigs. They kind of got in line and were like, she's a slut, she's a whore.

Speaker 5 Because they had to protect him. Yeah, because they because they're Democrats before they're feminists, exactly.
And

Speaker 5 I remember, you know, being like, wait, this isn't right. This doesn't make sense.
This isn't consistent with your stated ideology.

Speaker 5 But now she has like a, she's on a kind of redemption. She went on to call her daddy to promote her own podcast, which is called, Lord.
It's called, what is it called? It's like, don't read that.

Speaker 5 It's called

Speaker 5 me. There's not a single listener who will be tuning in to this show.
But it's called, yeah, I think it's reclaiming and she's reclaiming her narrative.

Speaker 5 But she already did a whole movie about that.

Speaker 5 Exactly. She's, it's been reclaimed.

Speaker 5 She's an interesting case study in how things have shifted from, like, nowadays, we would never slut shame someone in her position. I mean, I might, I might.
You might. I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 5 I might do it. We might, but the

Speaker 5 society at large would be. The status would be

Speaker 5 a hallowed victim. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
I don't know. Like, I have, I really feel like she needs to move on.
Definitely. That's

Speaker 5 sick and tired of hearing about this. If you're going to launch a podcast, go for it.
But it's like, this is her only thing. What has she done since then other than she writes for Vanity Fair? Great.

Speaker 5 Okay, that's fine.

Speaker 5 But then you should be talking about the columns that you write and whatever your accomplishments have been since 1995 or whatever it was for when I sat in the Barnes and Noble of the World Trade Center and read the Ken Starr report as a young aspiring lawyer, or I just started practicing law.

Speaker 5 I can't remember which, but I must have just graduated from law school because I was in law school. Whatever.
It doesn't matter. The point is, that's how long it's been.

Speaker 5 And she's still out there talking about her blowjobs with Bill Clinton. It's too much.
It's sad. I mean, but that's the real takeaway from all of these type of Me Too scandals.

Speaker 5 I mean, she, when she was going through it, wasn't me too times yet, but there's like a reluctance and inability to just move on, move past.

Speaker 5 And their identities are forever tethered to this traumatic episode and they have to re-traumatize themselves over and over.

Speaker 5 And really, it's like, it starts to feel after a while kind of cynical because it's clearly like a ploy to promote their own work, their own content. Yes.
It's like,

Speaker 5 at this point, she should be saying, I've said all there is to say on that subject. Like, we're good.
Let's, let's talk about something else.

Speaker 5 Because I'm sure that interview did talk about her new show and whatever. No one cares.

Speaker 5 The only reason they care about her is because of that scandal, which is why I probably, if I were Monica Lewiski, would have chosen a life in the private sector. Just make

Speaker 5 doing some good. You can do some, you can achieve other things.
She could be like Pamela Anderson. She could stop wearing makeup and do a photo show.
She makes feelings on that one too. Me too.

Speaker 5 I have overwhelmingly negative feelings as a Pam lover, but how do you feel about Vivek's naked feet in whatever interview he just gave? Don't make me say anything racist on a mainstream.

Speaker 5 Why is it racist? You have racist thoughts on it? Kind of a guru look. Yeah.
I don't know.

Speaker 5 Kind of not giving assimilated. Yeah.
He doesn't look very governor-y.

Speaker 5 No,

Speaker 5 it makes him look vulnerable. You should never, Achilles' heel.
You should never show your feet as a man or your Achilles' heel. And as a woman, you should never show them for free.

Speaker 5 Never show my feet for free? Only on OnlyFans.

Speaker 5 Or yeah.

Speaker 5 You can make a lot of money showing your feet on OnlyFans.

Speaker 5 A lot of money. I bet people would love to see the souls of your feet.
I mean, they'd be horrified.

Speaker 5 My toes are like my fingers, super long. It's very weird.

Speaker 5 Gotta go.

Speaker 5 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show: No BS, No Agenda, and No Fear.