Shocking Revolving Door at FDA and Pfizer, and How to Live Forever, with Dr. Aseem Malhotra and Bryan Johnson | Ep. 1014

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Speaker 11 Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Meast.

Speaker 11 Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show.

Speaker 11 Oh, we have a great, great health and wellness show lined up for you today, but some important things to get to, well, both in the actual show and first with this announcement in an exclusive here at the Megan Kelly Show.

Speaker 11 This is a follow-up to a story we brought you a couple of weeks ago when we had U.S. Senator Tommy Tuberville, Tubberville, of Alabama here.

Speaker 11 Coach, we talked about the fact that the Senate was not bringing the Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act to the floor. Watch.

Speaker 12 79% of the people in this country, Republican and Democrats, say it is wrong for men or boys to participate in women's sports. John Thun told me he's going to get it to the floor.
He hadn't done it.

Speaker 12 Now it's time to put up or shut up.

Speaker 12 50 years of Title IX, it has been decimated by the Biden and the Democrats and all the far-left progressives.

Speaker 12 Now is the time to put pressure on the Democrats, get them on the vote that they're going to vote against girls and women.

Speaker 12 Don't worry about winning or losing on this. Let's get it out there where people can see what's going on.

Speaker 11 Well, we can report exclusively now that the bill will, in fact, hit the floor. It's expected to hit tomorrow.
All GOP senators are expected to vote yes. We'll see about the other side of the aisle.

Speaker 11 We've got it, they got to get through the cloture vote first, which is where they vote on whether they should have a vote. That's where the Democrats can stop it.

Speaker 11 So, in other words, you need 60 yes votes to allow a vote.

Speaker 11 And if they can't get 60 yes votes to allow a vote, then the bill dies. If they get 60 yes votes to allow a vote, then the Republicans should get this through since they have a majority in the Senate.

Speaker 11 And all we're told, all GOP senators are expected to vote yes on the Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act, which does exactly what it says it's going to do and keeps biological boys out of girls' sports.

Speaker 11 Will the Democrats, seven of them, cross over to allow a cloture vote so that we can see a substantive vote go forward? We'll watch out. And we will be naming every single name who votes against this.

Speaker 11 We will be looking at their districts, and I guarantee you that there will be an activation like you've never seen before in every single one of those senators' districts.

Speaker 11 I'm talking to you, Democrats. Forget Republicans if they did this, every single Democrat, because this issue has over 80% support with with the American public.

Speaker 11 What kind of villain would vote against even allowing a vote to protect young girls? We will be naming you all if you vote against this. So let's find out.
And

Speaker 11 on the other side, if we get seven Democrats who allow this vote to go forward, who vote for the bill, anybody who actually substantively supports it, we will be celebrating you here on the Megan Kelly Show.

Speaker 11 And don't think it doesn't matter. Trust me, it does.

Speaker 11 We continue to face uncertainty when it comes to the economy with a perfect storm brewing as Social Security and Medicare hit a breaking point as the largest generation is hitting retirement.

Speaker 11 A smaller workforce means a smaller tax base. You pair that with our growing national debt and rising cost of living, and we could have a big problem.

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Speaker 11 All right, now to today's show. Later, we're going to be joined by one of the most fascinating men in media right now.
His name is Brian Johnson. You probably have seen his promo on Netflix.

Speaker 11 He's leading the Don't Die movement. I mean, I think we know how that turns out, but he would say we don't.

Speaker 11 He has personally taken some extreme measures to try to live up to his movement's name. And if you watch this Netflix documentary, it's crazy the way he's living.

Speaker 11 But, you know, is he crazy like a fox? Is he going to outlive us all? And does he have some helpful tips where we could be maybe less extreme?

Speaker 11 But maybe instead of living forever, we get an extra 10 good years. We will talk to him second hour.
First, though, we start with a close advisor to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
as RFKJ takes over. at HHS.

Speaker 11 Dr. Asim Malholtra is the co-founder of Metabolic Reset.
It's an online online group to support your metabolic health.

Speaker 11 The doctor's been on this program before, and we talked about his thoughts on things like your LDL cholesterol and how this may not really be the be-all, end-all when it comes to predicting whether you're going to have a heart attack.

Speaker 11 And it was a fascinating episode. He is a cardiologist.
Asim, welcome back to the show. Great to see you.

Speaker 13 Likewise, Megan.

Speaker 11 I love the time that we had together before because it really takes something that's a very scary number to most people, which is that LDL score, and gives people a new way of thinking about it.

Speaker 11 You know, you can talk to your own cardiologist, but you are a cardiologist, and you were making some really interesting points about how we've been ruled by that number for too long.

Speaker 11 And we've been totally reliant on these statins for too long, irrespective of whether they cause side effects that can be very annoying to those taking them.

Speaker 11 So, anyway, I'll get you the episode number, folks, so you can go back and take a look at that.

Speaker 11 But now Asim is advising RFKJ and has got some thoughts on what's happening at HHS and where RFKJ is likely to take

Speaker 11 the public health industry. Already we've seen the need for him just this week in the news, the fact that the FDA's top dog left the FDA and went to Pfizer to be hired as their chief medical officer.

Speaker 11 This is exactly what RFKJ said he was going to try to tackle, this revolving door between big pharma and our public health agencies, which are obviously compromised. Your thoughts on it?

Speaker 13 Yeah, Megan, it's just a symptom of a system failure, really, these commercial distortions of health and healthcare. We had something similar in the UK last year.

Speaker 13 Jonathan Van Tam, who was a deputy chief medical officer, left his government position to get a lucrative job with Moderna. So it's almost things things are happening in parallel.

Speaker 13 And, you know, it's a real issue because we know that the interest of these big corporations, these drug companies, is not putting people first. It's about profit.

Speaker 13 It's profit through manipulation, profit through mass deception. We've seen the worst of the, you know, the sort of

Speaker 13 the greatest failings of the system played out through the COVID pandemic, certainly with the rollout of the COVID vaccine. And it really just continues.

Speaker 13 This sort of behavior, to be honest, and these sorts of actions just will undermine trust

Speaker 13 in our institutions and the medical establishment.

Speaker 11 It's really amazing and it's disgusting.

Speaker 11 I mean, this woman, she actually went to FDA from Pfizer, then goes to FDA overseeing public health and the drugs that are going to be fed to us, and then goes right back out, back to Pfizer.

Speaker 11 I mean, whose interest is she actually serving now?

Speaker 13 Yeah, so, you know, it's interesting because also let's people need to understand why or how this happens. One of the problems we have with,

Speaker 13 you know, the approval of the of drugs or vaccines is that the so-called regulatory agencies that people believe to be independent are not. The FDA gets 65% of its funding from big pharma.

Speaker 13 So what that means is as well for the people.

Speaker 11 Can you say that again? Can you just say that again? I don't know if people understand that.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 13 The FDA and other regulators, like in the UK, the MHRA, get most of their funding from pharma. So the FDA gets 65% of its funding from big pharma.

Speaker 13 So it's in the interests in a way you can understand so that people working in the FDA who are approving the drugs, they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them.

Speaker 13 But also, if they are friendly to industry, they potentially know that down the line they're going to get offered lucrative jobs with big pharma.

Speaker 13 You know, government jobs don't pay as well as these big corporations do. So

Speaker 13 it's a huge bias in the system and it's damaging. It's very, very damaging.
And you use the right word.

Speaker 11 Disgusting. Disgusting is the right word, Megan.

Speaker 11 What do you mean they get 65% of their funding from big pharma? Like, what do you mean? Why isn't the federal government funding the FDA?

Speaker 13 Yeah, well, that's a really good question. So I think things really started to, I mean, this is part of the economic system we're in, Megan.

Speaker 13 So in the up until sort of the 80s, maybe early 90s, most of the funding of these regulatory agencies came from government.

Speaker 13 But because of the economic change, something called the neoliberalism that was the brainchild of a Chicago economist who was very close to Ronald Reagan, whose name was Milton Friedman. He basically

Speaker 13 wanted to reduce regulations, if you like, and allow companies to basically

Speaker 13 have open season when it came to drug development, less regulation, et cetera. And government obviously thought it was better for them to reduce spending, not knowing what the consequences would be.

Speaker 13 I don't think this was deliberate.

Speaker 13 And over time, what would happen is the drug companies then took over funding the very industries that are supposed to regulate them because it's in it suits their interests, doesn't it?

Speaker 13 Of course, because then they get more drugs approved more quickly.

Speaker 13 And we're now in a situation where we're having to deal with a massive over-medicated population around the world in the United States.

Speaker 13 You know, it's estimated globally, I've said this before, but people need to hear it again: that the third most common cause of death after heart disease and cancer globally is prescribed medications.

Speaker 13 This is not even to do with the COVID vaccine or other vaccines. This is pre-pandemic figures.

Speaker 13 And this is just one symptom of why we've got here really, Megan.

Speaker 11 It's, this is all connected. It's unacceptable.
It's disgusting, right?

Speaker 11 The way we eat, the toxins that we ingest on a daily basis, the way we poison ourselves with virtually everything that's all around us, and then a public health system that gets rich off of chronic illness and federal regulators who are supposed to be looking out for us, who actually are on the take to big pharma and industries like that, more interested in patting their own pockets than they are potentially in helping the rest of of us or at least that's how it looks i mean i don't know this patria cavazzoni but she was the director of the fda's center for drug evaluation and research uh from 2020 through this past january she resigned just ahead of trump returning to office and now where does she go chief medical officer at pfizer well it's interesting megan because i didn't know that and that for me suggests that she had a big role to play in the approval of the covid vaccine which we know has been an absolute horror, right?

Speaker 13 If you look at the evidence now, if you allow me to elaborate a little bit on that, I mean, things keep accumulating over time.

Speaker 13 You know,

Speaker 13 when the COVID vaccine was approved, let's say Pfizer Moderna, which was the most prominent COVID vaccines used in the United States, we were under this impression, and it was obviously fueled by all sorts of media, especially the legacy media, that it was going to be very protective, maybe 95 to 100% protective against infection, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 13 And of course, that all, you know, ultimately proved to be false.

Speaker 13 But when the original trials were reanalyzed by independent scientists, and this was then published in the peer-reviewed journal Vaccine, which is the highest impact medical journal for vaccines, what they found is from the very beginning, Megan, you were more likely to suffer serious harm.

Speaker 13 from the COVID vaccine, mRNA vaccines, than you were to be hospitalized with COVID.

Speaker 13 And that serious harm rate in the trial was only a short-term harm, because I want to come onto long-term harms in a second. And that was a rate of about one in 800.
Right. So

Speaker 13 if you think, and that's on the most rigorous data, that's their own original trials where everything is supposed to be equal in terms of the participants who are in the placebo group, who don't get the vaccine, the ones that get the vaccine, same background, same age, et cetera.

Speaker 13 But one, these trials are designed and they were designed by the drug company. So this is another problem.

Speaker 13 You know, they design the trials, they control the data, they then give summary results to the regulator. The regulator then approves them.

Speaker 13 But of course, it's in the the interest of the regulator to approve them if they're getting funding from big pharma. So it's a complete mess.
That's just short-term harms.

Speaker 13 And then there was an interesting survey done in the United States, which was published in one of the major medical journals.

Speaker 13 I must say, though, later retracted, not because of error, but because of pressure, because of the media frenzy that happened as a result of it.

Speaker 13 They did a survey in the United States that revealed, according to 57% of people surveyed, felt that they knew somebody, either they'd been severely injured or they knew someone that had died or been severely injured from the vaccine.

Speaker 13 They extrapolated from that and estimated there may have been, in the first year of the COVID vaccine in the United States alone, Megan, 280,000 deaths and 1 million serious adverse events.

Speaker 13 Now, given the other data we know from around the world,

Speaker 13 there was a publication, the BMJ, by Dutch researchers, which suggested the COVID vaccines have contributed to 2 million excess deaths globally.

Speaker 13 You know, this is pretty horrific stuff.

Speaker 13 And only last week, you may be aware that Yale researchers published new research that showed a long-term effect problem from the vaccine, which is that people who had what we call post-vaccine syndrome or long COVID symptoms like fatigue and brain fog, for example, two years after having the vaccine and Megan, they found in this particular group, they didn't look at other groups, that there was still circulating spike protein in the body, which essentially can be causing damage to the tissues or causing an autoimmune reaction.

Speaker 13 I personally, Megan, and I was pretty okay after the initial vaccine, about a year and a half after the vaccine, I developed psoriasis, an autoimmune condition linked to that depression.

Speaker 13 And I wasn't sure what was going on. And there's a brilliant doctor in Malibu, a very well-known, established gastroenterologist called Sabine Hazan.

Speaker 13 And she did some published research, which is pretty extraordinary and a bit scary, but we need to talk about it. Is that she found that

Speaker 13 three years after taking the COVID vaccine, a very important bacteria in the gut called Bifidobacteria, it's a very important part of the gut microbiome. It's a good bacteria.

Speaker 13 After three years, it went down to zero. Now, why that's important is that bacteria is very important for health.
It's important for producing neurotransmitters like serotonin.

Speaker 13 So, a lot of people might be suffering from anxiety, depression because of a vaccine they had two or three years ago.

Speaker 13 It triggered, I almost certainly feels, she called me up and said, Asim, you have the exact signature of someone who's vaccine injured because your bifida is zero.

Speaker 13 And I've had this resistant problem for now, you know, coming up to a year and a half. I've still got depression.
It's mild, but it's still debilitating at times.

Speaker 13 And I see other doctors I speak to are saying they're seeing an explosion of autoimmune conditions.

Speaker 13 Megan, if you don't mind me asking, I remember you mentioned the fact that you had some issue that you think was vaccine-related that caused an autoimmune issue with you as well.

Speaker 11 I was positive for an autoimmune condition, though it was undiagnosed or unspecified, which one?

Speaker 13 Right, okay. So, and in your mind, do you feel it may have been linked from, you know, with everything you know about your health?

Speaker 11 I have a rheumatologist. No, I asked the rheumatologist.
I said, do you think this could be linked to the fact that I got the, I got double shotted by COVID, by Pfizer. I had both of the vaccines.

Speaker 11 And then I got one booster. And in New York, you couldn't travel.
You couldn't do anything unless you proved, it was just ridiculous. I wish I hadn't done it, but I did.
So I got that third booster,

Speaker 11 first booster, and third shot total. And within a month, I got COVID.
It was right when the Omicron version started to circulate. So within a month, I both had the

Speaker 11 booster and then COVID. And then I had my annual physical and it showed up.
And I then got sent to a rheumatologist and I asked her, Do you think this? Because it was unspecified.

Speaker 11 It was like, which one? They tested for a few specific autoimmunes. It didn't like register one versus another.

Speaker 11 And I said, do you think this could be because of what just happened with the getting the booster and then getting COVID within a month? And she said, yes, I do.

Speaker 11 And she, you're not the only patient I have have seen have this exact sequence of events.

Speaker 13 Yeah, so I think this is, I mean, something I'm seeing with lots of patients. There's more and more reports coming out.

Speaker 13 And I think, you know, what really needs to happen, Megan, now, there needs to be a moratorium on this COVID vaccine globally.

Speaker 13 You know, certainly I know, and I'm sure you've read this, that, you know, people who are in prominent positions, certainly within the new Trump administration, I know they've already expressed concerns historically about the COVID vaccines.

Speaker 13 We don't need to name them. We all know who they are.

Speaker 13 But I think the one thing that still needs to happen, and I've got to be honest, I think President Trump is a remarkable man in the way that he has come back. He's so resilient.

Speaker 13 He's exactly the disruptor we need right now to really change the system for the good. And he's made some really important comments about making sure big pharma companies are accountable.

Speaker 13 I don't think yet he's on the same page. And probably because he doesn't have the full information around the COVID vaccine, one of the things that keeps getting perpetuated in the media is this,

Speaker 13 and I'll explain why this is completely false: that the COVID vaccine has saved tens of millions or millions of lives. And the data on which that

Speaker 13 information is based,

Speaker 13 Megan, is not even,

Speaker 13 it's the lowest level quality of evidence.

Speaker 13 It's not even considered in the hierarchy of evidence-based medicine to the extent where one of the leading figures in the world in evidence-based medicine, a guy called Carl Hedigan at the Center of Evidence-Based Medicine in Oxford, wrote an article saying that this claim is implausible.

Speaker 13 Not just him. In the United States, you have the most cited medical researcher in the world.
His name is Professor John Inidis from Stanford. I call him the Stephen Hawking of medicine.

Speaker 13 You know, a couple of years ago, he wrote an article in one of the peer-reviewed journals saying that non-randomized studies, so studies which aren't the one which I described earlier with a one in 800 figure of harm, he says that claims of them being, you know, so beneficial or preventing deaths from COVID, et cetera, et cetera, may be spurious, in other words, fake.

Speaker 13 So, you know, we need to really put this to bed. And I think

Speaker 13 if anybody, you know, we need to have this conversation so that President Trump, and I think he's up for turning because I think he was deceived, he was misled by these drug companies.

Speaker 13 We need to get to a situation where he comes out and says, Listen, you know what? We did this with the best of intentions.

Speaker 13 You know, we and it's true, we may have saved, you know, some lives, certainly the high-risk people.

Speaker 13 But overall, now, the fact that it was given to so many other people at low risk, it's very clear, Megan, for me. It's very, very clear with the evidence that we've done more harm than good here.

Speaker 13 And it needs to stop. And the reason we need to stop.

Speaker 11 I'm not sorry about now. Let me ask you this, Haseem.

Speaker 11 By the way, before I forget, the earlier episode with Haseem was episode 964, 964.

Speaker 11 Right about now, a lot of viewers are having the water rising right here. Like they're starting to get very stressed out because virtually everybody got the vaccine.

Speaker 11 And we have seen, I mean, who among us has not seen a sudden death by a loved one, a friend, somebody else's friend, et cetera, over the past few years and wondered, is it related to that vaccine?

Speaker 11 And they never say, they will never say it was the vaccine. I mean, just nobody says that.
But it's like, okay, young, otherwise healthy people are dropping dead.

Speaker 11 And you both worry for those you love and you worry for yourself. I mean, I talk to people who are going down to Mexico and getting all their blood replaced.

Speaker 11 I'm like, well, that, how could that possibly work when you've altered your genes?

Speaker 11 If you've altered your genes, replacing all your blood with new blood is not going to.

Speaker 11 change it and you your your own body i think replaces your blood anyway over the course of time anyway is there anything you can say to make them feel better about their prospects right now?

Speaker 13 Well, listen, I think we have to, you know, confront an uncomfortable truth, Megan. Let's be honest first and foremost.

Speaker 13 But one of the things why we need to get this stopped and pulled, and we need the president involved, is because, you know, it's going to give us more information of what we need to do to sort this out, identify who's at risk so people don't worry unnecessarily, identify who may be at risk of a further problem.

Speaker 13 And then we can use the best minds of science and medicine to actually, you know, allow research to take place to find the solution, Megan. That's another issue.

Speaker 13 It's not just that, oh, you know, people said to me, Dr. Mohocho, and this and it's happened, people don't know about it.
I said, no, this is going to be an ongoing issue.

Speaker 13 And we need to talk about it right now so that we can stop problems in the future. One of the things I do, for example, is I see many patients who are vaccine injured.

Speaker 13 One of the definite things they can do, certainly which will help, is that which is exactly what, you know, Make America Healthy Again is about, is optimize their health when it comes to diet, when it comes to exercise, when it comes to reducing stress, because all these things are additional factors that make you more likely to suffer from these vaccine injuries.

Speaker 13 One of the other issues that's emerged as well, unfortunately, is that, you know, and it's interesting, you said you've got, it's not unusual that you got COVID about a month after having the, you know, is it the booster or the second dose?

Speaker 13 Because we now know, and this sounds crazy to say it, and it's not just me. I had an email exchange with one of the world's top immunologists.
His name is Robert Clancy in Australia.

Speaker 13 And he just thinks it's, he's just, you know, it's mind-boggling for him that this is still being used. It causes immunosuppression.

Speaker 13 We have one of the world's top oncologists, Angus Dalgleesh, in the UK, who was actually behind,

Speaker 13 you know, identifying the CD4 cells being involved in AIDS and HIV, right? He's a very eminent guy. He's an oncologist and an immunologist, and he's saying that it causes immunosuppression.

Speaker 13 And especially people who've had boosters are more vulnerable to getting cancer. I've had people who I know, friends of, you know, my friends, younger brothers, et cetera, you know, developing cancer.

Speaker 13 And it's it's just, and as a doctor, you know intuitively something isn't right. And we have the data suggesting that the COVID vaccine has a mechanism where it can do this.

Speaker 13 Now, I'm not saying this is for everybody, and I think it's still going to be in a minority.

Speaker 13 But, you know, the problem is we're now in a situation, and I am also equally anxious, having thought I was probably okay.

Speaker 13 And as you know, my father died as a result of the COVID vaccine, almost certainly had a sudden cardiac death six months after having two doses of Pfizer, is that we're now in this uncertain phase where is, you know,

Speaker 13 can problems develop in three or four or five years' time?

Speaker 13 At the moment, we're basically ticking bombs. I, you know, I don't like to use these words lightly, but, you know,

Speaker 13 I don't want to exaggerate the fear, but we need to really have this conversation, not be afraid to say we are concerned. And doctors.

Speaker 11 Not at all.

Speaker 11 I remember saying on this program: if something goes very wrong with the vaccine, these drug companies are going to have to fix it because look at the number of people who are taking the vaccine.

Speaker 11 There's no way they'll be able to just allow millions of people to be vaccine injured and move forward. And I've never been more wrong about anything.

Speaker 11 That is the number one thing I have been wrong about.

Speaker 11 They've moved on. I mean, Steve Krakauer, my EP, was just saying in my ear, we couldn't have even had this conversation three years ago.

Speaker 11 I mean, as it is, YouTube's probably gonna slap a bunch of warnings on this discussion. Fine, nobody reads your warnings, YouTube.

Speaker 11 But even to get this video to live three years ago would have been very hard for us. And so it's like the mere fact that you're allowed to raise these questions and say these things is real progress.

Speaker 11 But we're far, far, far from Pfizer having to look at us and say, here's what we're doing about it.

Speaker 13 Yeah, no, of course.

Speaker 13 And actually, their model, in fact, is probably, and this is how business is done, make money from both sides, is that they are now going to, you know, they've invested heavily in cancer drugs for turbo cancers, which are also one of the potential adverse effects of this COVID vaccine.

Speaker 13 So, you know, and that's why I, you know, the definition, this is important for people to understand,

Speaker 13 we have, you know, these big corporations who've got more power than ever. They've become the dominant force in our society, more economic power than many governments, okay, almost tyrannical.

Speaker 13 to a large degree.

Speaker 13 And the way to describe them as legal entities and the way they make money has been defined by the preeminent expert Robert Hare, psychologist, as actually fulfilling the criteria for psychopath, psychopathy, you know, callous unconcern for the safety of others, incapacity to experience guilt, repeated lying and conning others for profit, you know, and this is something that I've seen and been very much aware of pre-pandemic.

Speaker 13 I had, of course, I had a blind spot on the COVID vaccine, as I had for all vaccines, Megan, because I took two doses myself.

Speaker 13 But with all the other drugs in the system, I knew that this is exactly how it worked. And of course, you see this confluence of interests with like big food.

Speaker 13 People talk about, you know, big food essentially drive the the chronic disease. And then big pharma give us drugs, which by the way, in general, are pretty useless.

Speaker 13 That's another conversation that needs to be had when we talk about making America healthy again. And

Speaker 13 this is absolute fact. Most drugs, so most, a large proportion, most of the health expenditure in the US comes from prescription drugs for chronic disease management.

Speaker 13 Now, chronic disease management are things like heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, for example, so-called high cholesterol. We talked about all already.

Speaker 13 Most people taking those drugs are not going to get any benefit because this is another shift in the paradigm in the dis in the conversations that happens between doctors and patients.

Speaker 13 We talked about statins, for example, that the benefit at best from taking a statin and preventing a heart attack of people who have not already had a heart attack, which is most people taking statins is 1%, 1 in 100.

Speaker 13 Patients are not told that. They're not given an informed choice, but they're all then exposed to side effects.

Speaker 13 But the good news is, Megan, once this information becomes freely available and these conversations start happening, we could very quickly improve the system.

Speaker 13 We can get a more efficient healthcare system. We can reduce costs and improve quality as well at the same time.

Speaker 11 Here's the frustrating thing as a consumer or a patient is even, I wouldn't say I'm anywhere near as like immersed in information as the full Maha team is, but I mean, I've done a fair amount of interviews with people like you who are very smart on these issues, and I remain confused.

Speaker 11 Like, for example, on the cholesterol issue, you and I had, we talked about the LDLs and how they may not be the scary thing that your cardiologist or your doctor will tell you they are.

Speaker 11 And that, in fact, as you, you made the point that a higher LDL actually could have a protective effect for older people when it comes to other illnesses and didn't think much of statins and so on.

Speaker 11 And then I read Good Energy by Casey Means, who I love and respect and think she's amazing. She's not a cardiologist, but she is a doctor.
And she's like, got to keep the LDLs down, right?

Speaker 11 So it's like, oh,

Speaker 11 you know, it's like well-meaning people like me are like, I don't know what to do.

Speaker 11 And you're talking about, you know, your heart health and a potential heart attack so you don't really don't want to get it wrong

Speaker 13 yeah i know i get that and and you know to be fair to to casey as well i mean i'm in a very unique position when it comes to the cholesterol discussion because i probably i'm not blowing my own trumpet here as an independent doctor as a cardiologist that doesn't have any link to industry i've probably done more research and publications and deep dive and understanding of this cholesterol and statin issue than anyone in the world.

Speaker 13 And the reality is that once you correct for what we call triglycerides and HDL, you know, parts of the cholesterol profile, essentially links to excess body fat and insulin resistance, you know, driven by ultra-processed food, there is no relationship with LDL, cholesterol, and development of heart disease.

Speaker 13 That data was actually already available years ago, you know, at the end of the late 90s.

Speaker 13 The co-director of the Framingham study, which is where cholesterol emerges as a so-called risk factor of heart disease, said that if your LDL cholesterol essentially, you know, was below,

Speaker 13 you know,

Speaker 13 as an independent risk factor, did not become apparent as a risk factor of heart disease unless it was at least above 250 or 300.

Speaker 13 And most, you know, 99% of people, Megan, don't have LDL cholesterol that high.

Speaker 13 And then we did further research in this group of people that have got a very high LDL genetically called familial hypolipidemia, and that affects one in 250 people. Let's just look at those.

Speaker 13 And this is published in BM David and Space Medicine, period. People can look this up, me and a number of scientists.

Speaker 13 And we found that in people with very, very high levels of LDL cholesterol above 300, for example, there was no difference in the ones that develop heart disease and their LDL levels

Speaker 13 and the ones that did develop heart disease. And therefore, that is another nail in the coffin to this LDL theory hypothesis that it causes heart disease.

Speaker 13 You know, it's basically a, I would say, a trillion dollar, it's a trillion dollar industry, it's a trillion dollar scam. You know, the statin benefit that I mentioned 1% is there from the trials.

Speaker 13 Having said that, another caveat again, Megan, which is what we need to do and change the system with Maha, is that these drug trials have never been independently evaluated.

Speaker 13 So we have to trust drug companies. But let's just say it is true that it's 1% benefit.
Okay.

Speaker 13 That's because statins have an independent effect where they are slightly anti-clotting and anti-inflammatory.

Speaker 13 And heart disease is an inflammatory condition linked to abnormal clotting and insulin resistance.

Speaker 13 When you look at all the other drugs that lower in cholesterol or diet, just lowering LDL cholesterol, again,

Speaker 13 I was involved in this research published in BMD Evidence-Based Medicine. We looked at this and we found no relationship.
So lowering cholesterol per se does not prevent heart attacks or stroke.

Speaker 13 This is an absolute

Speaker 13 main driver

Speaker 13 of heart disease, the number one sort of risk factor is insulin resistance, which basically is linked to five markers.

Speaker 13 And that's why I set up this program called Metabolic Health, which is very easy to measure, very simple.

Speaker 13 Most doctors aren't having these conversations with patients, which is basically looking at two markers of your cholesterol profile, triglycerides and HDL, so-called good cholesterol, your waist circumference, Megan, whether you have a high blood pressure or what we call pre-high blood pressure, pre-hypertension, or whether you're pre-diabetic or type 2 diabetic.

Speaker 13 Now, one in three adult Americans are type 2 diabetic, and 93% of American adults now have sub-optimal metabolic health. Okay.
The good news, Megan, is this.

Speaker 13 You can optimize this within weeks of just changing diet, cutting out the ultra-processed food, minimizing the sugar and and the starches from your diet, and basically reset.

Speaker 13 That's what we call medical reset.

Speaker 11 That's okay.

Speaker 11 Listen to what he just said, what he just said, because I still have heard from my cardiologist, you know, stop eating so much red meat. Stop eating so much red meat.

Speaker 11 And you didn't even mention red meat. You're talking about ultra-processed foods, sugar, and starchy carbs.

Speaker 13 Absolutely. There is no relationship.
with the consumption of red meat. The most extensive studies have been done, looked in their totality, red meat and heart disease.

Speaker 13 Red meat, I'm not saying it's protective, but it's a very nutritious food. I tell my cardiac patients, these are cardiac patients of heart attacks, I tell them, listen,

Speaker 13 cut the ultra-processed foods, follow the best components of Mediterranean diet, extra virgin olive oil, oily fish, whole fruit and vegetables, but I'm not worried about how many steaks you eat a week.

Speaker 13 I'll tell you something interesting. Only yesterday, I had a consultation with a patient.
This is

Speaker 13 a great story, Megan. I'm glad I'm going to share this with you for the first time.
This is a guy that saw me almost 10 years ago. He comes for a follow-up.

Speaker 13 He, at the age of 62, 62, he was diagnosed with severe blockages in all of his heart arteries. He was recommended to have a coronary artery bypass surgery.
Okay.

Speaker 13 And essentially told that unless he had it, he's probably going to die within a very short space of time, within a few years.

Speaker 13 Now, he came to me and he said, listen, doctor, I don't want to go under the knife. I want to try alternatives.
This is my personal preference. I really don't want to have surgery.

Speaker 13 Luckily, at that point, his symptoms were quite mild, but he had those blockages diagnosed. And he said, is there anything else I can do? I've read your work.
Can I go on a diet plan?

Speaker 13 Can I do a lifestyle change? And I gave him that plan, exactly that. I told him, you know, I went through his diet and he was, you know, he was a CEO of a company, if I remember correctly.

Speaker 13 He was spending eight hours of the day in a car. He was sedentary.
He was eating snack foods and sweets all the time. You know, so there's lots of room for improvement.
He completely changed his diet.

Speaker 13 I also found that he was very stressed. So, you know, I advised him to do breath work, meditation.

Speaker 13 He also was, you know, thinking about coming towards retirement early because of his, you know, his heart issue.

Speaker 13 And he was, you know, wealthy enough to be able to do that so he contacts me only yesterday i had a consultation with him and i presume when he got back in touch with me that he'd done this for a while but ultimately needed a bypass and he was going to come to me say listen i had the bypass and i just want to check in with you and and see how things are going etc etc and anything else i can do megan he didn't have the bypass he now you know, grows his own vegetables, he cooks, completely transformed his life, he swims three times a week, he walks his dog five miles a day, he's got no symptoms, And this is nine years after being told essentially he could probably die if he didn't have a bypass operation.

Speaker 13 That is the power of lifestyle change. What? And by the way, sorry, the other thing to say, this was without a statin.
He got side effects from the statin and stopped his statin.

Speaker 13 That was the other part of the discussion. He's not taking a statin and hasn't taken a statin for nine years.

Speaker 11 How does the calcium score play in?

Speaker 13 Okay, the calcium score is a really good, useful, validated test that is simple to do, a little bit of radiation through CT CT scan, takes five minutes, non-invasive.

Speaker 13 And what it does is it tells you the buildup of what we call coronary calcium, nothing to do with diet, by the way, nothing to do with blood calcium.

Speaker 13 The calcium is basically deposited where there is inflammation and where blockages tend to occur.

Speaker 13 And you can get a score, anything from zero, which is completely normal, to well over a thousand, which indicates there is a lot of furring of the arteries.

Speaker 13 But what's useful about the calcium score Megan as well, is it actually gives you a very accurate prediction more than cholesterol, blood, well, cholesterol, we know, is essentially useless, but you know, more than other factors, it gives you a prediction of your risk of a heart attack or stroke in the next 10 years.

Speaker 13 So I use it quite often in patients that have come who've been scared by their doctor saying you're going to die because your cholesterol is high unless you take a statin.

Speaker 13 And we do the calcium score on the megan. And of course, a lot of cholesterol, you know, that the so-called LDL is, you know, 80% of it essentially is genetic.
Okay, you're born with it.

Speaker 13 So if they come to me in their middle age, if their LDL cholesterol has been a problem for them, they're going to have significant heart disease. Do the calcium calcium score zero.

Speaker 11 Wow.

Speaker 13 So I can reassure them that they don't need to worry about their cholesterol, essentially.

Speaker 11 Peter Attia likes that one too. He likes the calcium score, just as sort of a baseline of where you are.
So this is also fascinating. This is like,

Speaker 11 I'm so thrilled that RFKJ got in there and is going to be looking into things like this. I mean, already, you know, he's yesterday there was an EO on

Speaker 11 transparency on drug costs. You know, like already he's taking a look at interesting interesting things and he stopped.
What was the thing that he stopped yesterday? He stopped something.

Speaker 11 Oh, it was a testing program that was going on for the oral COVID vaccine. He was like, we're not stopping it forever, but we're pausing that.
I'm not sure that's the best use of our resources.

Speaker 11 So already he's in there questioning, you might say, questioning.

Speaker 11 So as somebody who knows him and has worked closely with him, what do you think are going to be the top items we'll see over, let's say, the first 100 days or so?

Speaker 13 Well, listen, I think, and if everybody can look this up, because I was, you know, there's a brilliant executive order from the president, obviously with, I think, with Robert Kennedy Jr.'s input on the Maha Plan.

Speaker 13 And Megan, it's absolutely extraordinary. It's so comprehensive.
They've covered essentially everything.

Speaker 13 So they're going to look at, you know, all of the existing data when it comes to nutrition, when it comes to environmental influences on health. You know, they set up a commission.

Speaker 13 This was what heartened me the most to look at how different sectors of our lives, whether it's housing, education, you know, income, how that impacts on your health and that and why that's really important, Megan.

Speaker 13 This is a conversation that needs to be had in America and across the world. You know, we need to go back to square one to understand what are the building blocks of a healthy society?

Speaker 13 What does it mean to be healthy? And one of the things that hasn't been discussed enough or ignored, if you like, is that, you know, if you look at, I'll give you some figures here.

Speaker 13 Okay, in the United States and even in the UK, it's not dissimilar. The gap in life expectancy between the richest and poorest is about 10 years on average, right? It's huge, okay?

Speaker 13 Healthy life expectancy difference is about 20 years.

Speaker 13 When you look at the data, about 80% of that difference can be explained by what we call the social determinants of health or the wider determinants of what means to be healthy.

Speaker 13 So, if, and this basically means having, you know,

Speaker 13 an income that allows you to lead a healthy life,

Speaker 13 you know, good quality housing, you know, a lot of people are suffering in the United States because, you know, they may be certainly through the winter, they don't have adequate heating, access to education.

Speaker 13 If If you are in a job, Megan, that is high demand, low control, low pay, you're on the minimum wage, which I understand in the US, certainly pre-pandemic, was about $7.25,

Speaker 13 then that can be more damaging to health. The stress associated with being in those sorts of conditions, Megan, can be more damaging to health than being unemployed.
Okay, and what's the mechanism?

Speaker 13 The underlying mechanism is severe chronic stress.

Speaker 13 So if you have chronic stress over your lifespan, if you're, for example, brought up in a family, if you're a child that is, you know, in a, in a, in a deprived family, or you're a victim of severe psychological abuse or emotional abuse, that starts to already have an effect on the disease process that will cut your life short later down the line.

Speaker 13 These are the conversations we need to start having. So, that's why what's really fascinating is he's, you know, it's about health through all sectors.

Speaker 13 So, we need to look at the Department of Education, housing, et cetera, and say,

Speaker 13 those departments, those, you know,

Speaker 13 agencies, if you like, they need to be having health at the forefront.

Speaker 13 You know, you know, I was looking, there was something I was reading really interestingly recently is that Thomas Jefferson in 1809, in an address to Republicans in Washington, said,

Speaker 13 the care of health and human happiness and not its destruction is the first and most important object of good government. That's Thomas Jefferson, right?

Speaker 13 For me, it's not about big government or small government.

Speaker 13 It's about good government because ultimately the politicians have the control over laws to ensure that we create conditions so that everybody, Megan, who's going to disagree with that, has the best opportunity to lead the best life they can in terms of their health.

Speaker 13 And this isn't just about people who are not well off. You know, during the pandemic, Megan,

Speaker 13 Boris Johnson, our prime minister, I mean, I commented on this. He got hospitalized with COVID.
And I said

Speaker 13 it's likely because of his weight. I said it in a compassionate way.
He was after he came out. I didn't say it when he was in hospital.

Speaker 13 And, you know, that became a big story because he was, and he admitted it, obese. And this is a guy who's got agency.

Speaker 13 He's got wealth, right and this tells us that all of us really are in this because we're affected by this ultra-processed food environment we've we've been misled about information about cholesterol about what's a healthy diet so i think all of this is going to be uncovered under trump's administration under the leadership certainly on health of robert kennedy jr

Speaker 11 That's so encouraging.

Speaker 11 Just even back when I was in school, it was either, I can't even remember whether it was high school or college right now, but we learned about a study that had been done on two groups of monkeys.

Speaker 11 And it was that, I guess, I think it was monkeys. it might have been a different primate, but it was that there were two different cages of them, and they like a dominant monkey.

Speaker 11 Like the order works best when there's one dominant. And what they did was they put two dominant in one cage and just the one dominant in the second cage.

Speaker 11 And the monkeys got exactly the same food, exactly the same lifestyle. Nothing else was different, other than the one cage of monkeys was very stressed out and the other wasn't.

Speaker 11 And then many years later, when they died of totally natural causes,

Speaker 11 they were dissected and they looked at their arteries. And the arteries of the monkeys that had been in the stressed out cage were completely,

Speaker 11 they were clogged.

Speaker 11 They were not the picture of health versus the other monkeys, which didn't have anywhere near that level of fatty buildup on the walls of the arteries and so on.

Speaker 11 And the only difference between the monkeys was the stress.

Speaker 11 So it's like you look at these people who focus so much, some obsess over what they eat and the amount of exercise and, you know don't have this and don't have that and they totally forget being stressed out all the time it may be the worst health factor in your life you it must be addressed

Speaker 13 megan i think you've hit the nail on the head and that's the elephant in the room i think everything that underpins what's really driving at the root of the problem is the chronic stress and it comes down to how we live how we interact with each other as well um you know we know that one of the biggest predictors i know you're talking to brian johnson later but one of the predictors of longevity and happiness actually the quality of our relationships you know having someone to love and someone that loves you.

Speaker 13 You know, that it sounds very basic, but it's so important. And that mitigates also from the external stresses of life, which are inevitable.
So all these conversations need to be had.

Speaker 13 And of course, it also applies to, you know, a child being nurtured by their mother.

Speaker 13 I think I always tell people the most important relationship you're going to have in your life, I think, is the one between mother and child, you know, how you're brought up and being allowed to create the conditions so that moms can be there for their children, so they can have a nurturing upbringing rather than being a single mom, for example, working two jobs, trying to make two ends meet in an unjust system where they're not getting paid enough, where big corporations exploit their workers, where you've got a pay differential between the CEO of a company and the production worker of 326 times, which I think is a figure now, which is extraordinary.

Speaker 13 So we have to have a conversation as a society saying, is this actually fair and just?

Speaker 13 And then you add in, Megan, on top of that, you know, I'm all for meritocracy when people are earning their money doing the right thing.

Speaker 13 But a lot of these big corporations have made their money through mass deception, right?

Speaker 13 You look at big pharma, for example, and then they don't pay their taxes, and then the government have less money to spend on public services, which are being degraded and undermined.

Speaker 11 So we have to link it all together. Pfizer made, I think, $30 million last year.

Speaker 11 That was his take-home pay, which I think is one of the reasons why, I mean, just Pfizer in general and these vaccine companies, we're all very skeptical of them now.

Speaker 11 Not all, but many of us are very skeptical because we don't feel like we've been given the truth.

Speaker 11 There was an extraordinary moment where he showed up at the Trump White House on Black History Month on the celebration.

Speaker 11 And Trump, who, you know, he is still pro-vaccine and he introduced him like, yeah, he's CEO of Pfizer. And the community wasn't having it.
You know, somebody on Twitter pointed out, or ex,

Speaker 11 Trump led a populist movement, but he doesn't control. the populace.
They still have their own feelings on certain issues. And Pfizer and the vaccines are one of them.
Look at this.

Speaker 14 We also have the head of Pfizer here.

Speaker 15 So I I want to thank him. One of the great, great people, one of the great businessmen.
Thank you, Albert. Thank you.

Speaker 15 Thank you very much.

Speaker 16 Thank you very much.

Speaker 11 Trump gets it. He knew.
But

Speaker 11 his most loyal followers were not having it.

Speaker 13 Yeah, I think two things to mention there, Megan. Absolutely.
I don't think a single American voted for President Trump the second term because of Operation Wartspeed and the COVID vaccine.

Speaker 11 I'm pretty sure that didn't happen, right?

Speaker 13 And the second thing is, you know, he's got a great sense of humor and he's a very shrewd man. And

Speaker 13 if you look at the reaction there, I think that was almost reinforcing what he probably already deep down knows.

Speaker 13 Yep. This COVID vaccine is a mess.

Speaker 11 I wanted to round back to a question about the vaccine because Cheryl Atkison, a former CBS news journalist, she has a podcast and a show also.

Speaker 11 And she previewed an interview she's going to be doing on on March 2nd with a doctor whose name is Dr. Ryan Cole, who is sounding the alarm on some of the effects of the COVID vaccine.

Speaker 11 And the following soundbite grabbed my interest. Take a listen here.
It was just published today on her podcast feed.

Speaker 11 What did you start to see when the vaccine rolled out in the pathology?

Speaker 17 Well, that's when I started getting reports from colleagues about

Speaker 17 clots all over the body and people dropping from pulmonary umbulli. I have colleagues in the military talking about young, healthy, active soldiers ending up in the hospital with horrendous clots,

Speaker 17 sudden death from clots, strokes in young patients from clots.

Speaker 17 And then

Speaker 17 some of the embalmers started reaching out to me and showing what they were seeing on embalming, which were these long fibrous clots that are obviously rare

Speaker 17 prior to the rollout of these shots.

Speaker 11 That's extremely creepy and disturbing. And, but not,

Speaker 11 I believe, I believe him. I mean, a good friend of mine who's in public health, who's a lefty, was saying, Meg, we're hearing a lot about these clots and the embalmers.

Speaker 11 And she's like a pro, you know, she was definitely pro-vaccine and the whole bit. And even she was like,

Speaker 11 I'm not taking any more. I'm hearing more about these.
And now you hear this guy say it out. I mean, what, what are we supposed to do? If our blood is getting clotty,

Speaker 11 what, like, what do we do? Drink more water? What, have an aspirin? I don't get it. Yeah.

Speaker 13 So, so a couple of things, Megan. First of all, I know Ryan very well, and he's a brilliant, he's a pathologist.
He's a brilliant scientist. He has high integrity.

Speaker 13 We've spoken at conferences together. Solid, solid guy.
One of the top vascular surgeons in the world is a friend of mine in Ireland called Professor Sheriff Sultan.

Speaker 13 I talked to him about this as well. I mean, these sort of long fibrous clots have been known before, prior, but he also feels that they seem to have increased and he's seen more problems.

Speaker 13 Certainly, he feels that there's been a massive issue with the COVID-19 vaccine. He feels it should be suspended as well.
And he's one of the top vascular surgeons in the world.

Speaker 13 So there's a lot more doctors speaking out about it.

Speaker 13 In terms of what people can do, I think with these particular fibrous clots, Megan, as far as I've seen in terms of data and my own clinical experience, they tend to be stuff that develops relatively early on.

Speaker 13 So these are the kind of things that you see when people have either had a booster within a few weeks, maybe a month or so after, but usually within a short time frame.

Speaker 13 There was a separate study which looked at people that died within, I think, two or three weeks of having the COVID vaccine.

Speaker 13 And I think they found from autopsy studies, 74% was a figure roughly they could actually directly say was caused by the COVID vaccine. But yes, what can we do?

Speaker 13 Again, it comes back to metabolic health. You know, a lot of these problems are cardiovascular.
I talked about insulin resistance earlier. And interestingly, it isn't just about heart disease.

Speaker 13 After smoking, it's the second biggest driver of cancer.

Speaker 13 So if people, if we have this mechanism in place to educate people and introduce environmental policies, let's put it that way, to create a healthier food environment,

Speaker 13 a food environment, food that's affordable, then you very quickly will see people optimize their metabolic health and improve it across the United States.

Speaker 13 And we will see, I think, one of the aims of the new administration and Bobby in particular is to show demonstrable data of improvement within two years. That is absolutely doable.

Speaker 11 That's one of the protocols for preventing dementia, too.

Speaker 11 It's like, okay, you may have the gene, whatever, but if you minimize the number of toxins in your life, you're giving yourself at least the best chance possible of avoiding it.

Speaker 11 That's what RFK has been saying about vaccines and autism, that he can't prove a a direct causal relationship, but that it may be one of several toxins that overwhelm the system in young children.

Speaker 11 And like the more of those that you can remove, not necessarily making a judgment on the vaccines for anybody, but the more toxins you can remove from your child's diet, the better.

Speaker 11 This is the road we're on.

Speaker 11 Final thoughts on

Speaker 11 whether we'll get there.

Speaker 13 Thanks, Megan. Yeah.
So, I mean, very quickly on that, yes, you're right about dementia.

Speaker 13 People, some people describe that, you know, Alzheimer's is type 3 diabetes. So same process.
So 100%, this is the way forward.

Speaker 13 I have a lot of hope. I think we've got the right people in place.
We've got brilliant men like Jay Bhattacharya, who's almost certainly going to be, I think, the next director of the NIH.

Speaker 13 We've got, you know, Marty McCarry. We've got Mehmet Oz.
We've got Bobby in there. Anything I can do to help to facilitate it.

Speaker 13 And I think President Trump will listen.

Speaker 11 And maybe you too.

Speaker 11 Hopefully, you will be elevated to one of the top teammates. It would be great to see you there, Dr.
Haseem Maholtra. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 13 Thank you. Began.

Speaker 11 God, it's one of the privileges of this job to be able to talk to people like that. I I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did.
I know it's scary, but we have to talk about it.

Speaker 11 And then, by the way, for what it's worth, that Dr. Young, sorry, Cole on Cheryl's podcast did say drinking more water is beneficial on the clotting front.
Go to metabolicreset.co for more from Dr.

Speaker 11 Asim. Coming up, Don't Die Movement founder Brian Johnson.
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Speaker 14 Why did we build the first American nuclear plant in 30 years? Because we're leading the way to secure American energy dominance.

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Speaker 11 So if you're feeling worried about dying from the COVID vaccine or related problems from our first hour, you need to listen to our second hour.

Speaker 11 Tech millionaire Brian Johnson has been making headlines for years over his extreme anti-aging routine where he spends $2 million a year trying to live forever. His motto is don't die.
I accept.

Speaker 11 Great.

Speaker 11 He goes to bed at 8:30 every night. He eats a vegan diet with dinner at 11 in the morning every day, though he's open to red meat, but it's just not for him.

Speaker 11 He takes over 100 pills or supplements a day.

Speaker 11 And in his quest, he has tried things as odd as swapping blood plasma with his teenage son and he, Brian, giving his own plasma to his 70-year-old father and injecting a donor's fat into his face.

Speaker 11 He's also also had controversial gene therapy, having to fly out of country to get it. As you can see, his appearance has definitely changed over the years.
Look at this.

Speaker 11 On screen right is the closest to today, and on screen left is how he used to look as recently as, I don't know, six, seven years ago. He is now the subject of a Netflix documentary.

Speaker 11 You've probably seen it promoted on Netflix many times called Don't Die, The Man Who Wants to Live Forever, where he walks us through his protocol that he calls the blueprint. Watch.

Speaker 18 By doing blueprint, one of the key objectives is to achieve the lowest possible biological age. So just like a tree has rings, we all have a signature inside of our body of our age.

Speaker 18 After doing blueprint now for two years, I've reversed my biological age 5.1 years.

Speaker 18 I have 50 perfect biomarkers. I have 100 biomarkers where I'm less than my chronological age.
And my speed of aging is 0.69,

Speaker 18 which means for every 12 months, I age eight months.

Speaker 18 In terms of how far this goes, it's open-ended. We have no idea.

Speaker 19 But I want to take my speed of aging to the lowest possible number.

Speaker 11 Brian Johnson, welcome to the show.

Speaker 12 Thanks for having me.

Speaker 11 Fascinating to meet you. I watched the whole thing.
I'm riveted. I love the challenge.
I wish it were possible.

Speaker 11 Do you, let me me ask you with that. Do you actually think it might be that you won't die at all?

Speaker 11 Or just, you know, you're looking to extend your lifestyle or lifetime beyond what now we consider possible?

Speaker 12 You know, I think it's legitimately the first time any human in history could say with a straight face, we may be the first generation to not die. I sincerely believe that.

Speaker 12 It's almost like if you think back to history, like in 1870. If you were alive at that time, you thought that infection came about through bad spirits.

Speaker 12 But there were new ideas that are kind of crazy where people said there are these microscopic objects that cause infection. They're called bacteria.

Speaker 12 And when you don't wash your hands between surgeries, you know, when you're delivering babies, it spreads and can lead to death.

Speaker 12 Now, if you're living at the time, you might say that's stupid and crazy. You're telling me things my eyes can't see are going to be the cause of death.

Speaker 12 But if you're open-minded, you might say, huh, like, I don't want to, if this is real, I don't want to be on the other side of that. And so, I think the same moment is true for us:

Speaker 12 this is legitimately a transformational moment as a species. We may be the first generation that won't die.

Speaker 11 You've gotten all sorts of criticism for having money and, you know, going and having gene therapy in Honduras that the average person could never afford. My view is good for you.

Speaker 11 If you're willing to make yourself a human guinea pig in a way that could save lives down the line or extend lives, why wouldn't we be celebrating that? You're not saying everybody must do it.

Speaker 11 You're not saying I recommend it for all of you. You're saying, this is what I'm doing and this is why I'm doing it.

Speaker 11 And I'll share with all of you the results I get, which I think is actually pretty laudable. I mean, has the feedback been mostly good or 50-50 on controversial and good?

Speaker 12 Yeah, it's been overwhelmingly positive. And like all things, you find negative voices really get a lot of airtime.
And so what they don't talk about is, I think this is what I've built. So I

Speaker 12 quantitatively have the best biomarkers of anybody on planet Earth. I am quantitatively the healthiest person alive.

Speaker 12 Now, I've posted all my data publicly and said, others, you know, show me your data.

Speaker 12 and so i've really tried to create a new sport out of this now in doing so i've shared with the entire world everything i do things that work things that don't work but everything is for free i haven't put this behind a paywall i haven't asked people to pay me subscriptions this is i've made this for free and i actually i spend a majority of my time you know producing content writing helping people learn these three basic things so it really is an effort to try to help everyone be healthy and well but the the criticism is just very natural i wrote the other day there are like five stages of understanding don't don't die.

Speaker 12 And first is like this, Lol, I wish you'd get hit by a bus. You know, it's like, it's very, it's like, it's so algorithmic.

Speaker 12 Like whenever I walk into a new category of people and they haven't seen me before, their responses are just like an algorithm, like just absolutely expected.

Speaker 11 Yes. All right.
So here's a little bit more from the documentary on some of your routines and this sound about your discussing them with your communications director, Kate Tolo.

Speaker 18 It's probably over 100 different things I do any given day that the body has asked for to be in its ideal state.

Speaker 18 And that begins with in the morning I wake up, I turn a specific light on in my bathroom that gives me sun-like exposure. I take three pills.
I do my body temperature with an inner ear measurement.

Speaker 18 go downstairs, start HRV therapy. So I put a little electrode here in my ear and it stimulates my autonomic nervous system trying to make my body more parasynthetic and more chill.

Speaker 18 I take 54 pills with a concoction that I call the Green Giant.

Speaker 18 I put a cap on my head for hair growth that has 312 laser diodes. Then I work out for an hour, come in, eat a few pounds of vegetables.

Speaker 18 I do some high-frequency electromagnetic stimulation on my abdomen. I do 12 minutes of near and red light therapy to accelerate healing.
I do audiotherapy for my hearing regeneration.

Speaker 18 I have my last meals to eat before 11 a.m.,

Speaker 18 34 more pills to take. There's protocols throughout the day here and there.
And then my nighttime routine.

Speaker 11 Oh my gosh, I'm exhausted just thinking about it.

Speaker 11 I'm sure you've been asked this question before, but where is the time for fun?

Speaker 12 Yeah, you know, so I guess I really find this to be fun. It is my happy place.
I love this endeavor. I love playing this game.
I love data. I love science.
I love the experimentation.

Speaker 12 It's so much fun. And I guess like it's been kind of interesting because a lot of a very common response is, you know, he's so busy trying not to die, he's not living.

Speaker 12 And meanwhile, like when we think about the things we categorize as living, you know, like going out, drinking with the friends or staying out late or eating pizza or donuts, those are oftentimes the things people imagine I just can't go without.

Speaker 12 And those things just make me miserable and not happy. I've never been happier in my entire life.
So it's very counterintuitive that, you know, health is happiness.

Speaker 12 Most people think that debauchery is happiness, but we all know it's not.

Speaker 11 That's very interesting. Okay, so let's, can we talk about some of those protocols? Some of them are a little bit more mainstream.
I mean, I have a red light that I use and I love it.

Speaker 11 I think it's really made a nice difference on my skin. I have an infrared sauna, which does the same thing for your body, the lights that are in the infrared sauna.

Speaker 11 I'm not familiar with the HRV therapy or no, no, with the light exposure that you do for your eyes first thing in the morning. Is that because you wake up pre-sunrise? And what does that do?

Speaker 12 That's right. Yeah.
So it really helps light in the eyes, you know, within 20 to 30 minutes of waking up is really important. It sets your mood, it sets your circadian rhythm, it improves your mood.

Speaker 12 So if you wake up with the sun, you know, early morning sunlight is fantastic. If you wake up before the sun, that 10,000 lux light really helps set your health regimen.

Speaker 12 So like you played in that clip,

Speaker 12 this is not like the idea is not that people do what I do. It's that they can draw out the basics of what I do and then make it a habit into their lives.

Speaker 12 And so really, you can achieve very similar health markers as me and do very little of what I actually do.

Speaker 11 Can you just turn on a light? Like, what about just turning on the bedroom light?

Speaker 12 It doesn't, yeah, the bedroom light won't work. You need a specific kind of light to have the effects on triggering the circadian rhythm.

Speaker 11 Okay. Why is your last meal of the day at 11 a.m.?

Speaker 12 Because, so this is actually, so it's really about my resting heart rate before bed. And so what I discovered over the past four years is the single most important thing for my health is my sleep.

Speaker 12 It's like nothing is even remotely close.

Speaker 12 And so I have built my entire life around sleep, which is again, is counterintuitive because our current culture is you sleep when you have time, you sleep when you're done with work, you sleep when you're done.

Speaker 12 And many people actually brag by not getting sleep. They'll say, I sleep under my desk or like, you know, the person coded for three nights in a row, they're so impressive.

Speaker 12 So it's almost like this mythology that if you don't sleep, you somehow have higher status. And so it's the reality is, you know, our body needs sleep.
And otherwise we just don't function well.

Speaker 12 We have actually, we're we're impaired, like if you're drunk. And so the biggest predictor, the strongest predictor of your night's sleep is your resting heart rate before you go to bed.

Speaker 12 And so the way you do this is tonight before you go to bed, if you have a wearable, just pull up and see what your heart rate is. Maybe 60 beats per minute, 65, 50.

Speaker 12 And then your goal over the next two weeks, I'll give you some tips, is to try to lower your resting heart rate by 10 to 15 beats. And as you do that, every beat you drop,

Speaker 12 your sleep quality is going to increase. So I eat my final meal today at 11 a.m.

Speaker 12 because that gives my body time to digest. So when I go to bed at 8.30, my body's, the food is fully digested and my body is now able to allocate its resources to say, now we're going to sleep.

Speaker 12 If I eat later, like five or six, my heart rate is going to climb 10 to 15 beats and my sleep will be reduced by about 30 to 40 percent. All right.

Speaker 11 So this is like reminding me just a couple of nights ago, I was, I was dying for some ice cream. My kids had it.
It's like, I love ice cream. And it was getting pretty close to bedtime.

Speaker 11 I'm like, don't do it, Meg. Like, you're so close to going to bed.
You're going to spike your glucose.

Speaker 11 And I did it, Brian. I did it.
And, you know, it's the worst thing because it does, it raises your glucose. It raises your heart rate.
And you know what?

Speaker 11 I didn't sleep well, but I actually hadn't tied the two things together until just listening to you, right? Exactly.

Speaker 12 So what was the ice cream?

Speaker 11 It was mint chocolate chip.

Speaker 12 Is that your favorite?

Speaker 11 Well, it's one of them. Yeah, I do love it.

Speaker 12 It was just, it was just like available in the freezer.

Speaker 11 Yeah, exactly right. Yes.
But I, I am the one who made it available. I bought it.
It was organic.

Speaker 11 I'm sure that makes it healthy.

Speaker 12 Yeah. Yeah.
So organic, actually, we can talk about that. Organic kind of means nothing in terms of like, I'll go to food in a minute.
But yeah.

Speaker 12 So in your experience, when you woke up the next morning, was it worth eating the ice cream?

Speaker 11 No, it wasn't not at all.

Speaker 11 But I hadn't even really given a lot of thought to just eating, even if it's not sugary, even if it's not. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 11 If it's a normal meal, it is going to spike probably your blood sugar to some extent and your heart rate's for sure going to go up.

Speaker 12 Exactly. So eating before bed wrecks sleep.
And so here's the prescription for everybody is have your final meal of the day at least two hours before bedtime.

Speaker 12 So if you go to bed at 10, finish eating at eight and then experiment with going to seven and then six and then five and then 4 p.m. Just push it back a little bit every time.

Speaker 12 You're going to feel a little bit hungry. That's fine.
It's normal.

Speaker 12 But as you're going to watch, as you move your last meal a day back further, your heart rate's going to go down, your sleep's going to go up, and you're going to feel amazing.

Speaker 12 It is worth it. Like when you wake up in the morning and you feel great, it doesn't matter how much pain you're in the night before, it's worth it.
So, and also the foods you eat.

Speaker 12 So if you have like a big pizza, you know, at 5 p.m., even though your bed has at 10, it still jacks your heart rate, lowers your sleep.

Speaker 12 So I just went through this meticulous experimentation process, trying hundreds of different combinations. And I found that the kinds of foods and what I ate dramatically impacted my heart rate.

Speaker 12 So now I'm at 44 beats per minute before bed. And when I can get that, I'm going to have a perfect night's sleep.

Speaker 11 So you sleep eight, eight and a half hours?

Speaker 12 That's right. Eight hours and 34 minutes is my six-month average.
And what you want, so here's the profile of ideal sleep. So when my head hits a pillow, I'm usually out within two to five minutes.

Speaker 12 I sleep roughly two hours of REM or two hours of deep. I'm up sometimes, like probably 75% of the nights now.
I'm up zero times per night. And

Speaker 12 yeah, so that's like roughly the profile. If you lay down and it takes you 45, you know, 30 minutes to go to sleep, it's too long.

Speaker 12 And then if you're not getting around two hours each of Rem and Deep, if thereabouts, you're getting too little.

Speaker 12 And then if you're up at night more than 30 minutes, it's something to pay attention to. But I basically have like five habits that people should follow.

Speaker 12 And if you get these things down and make them life habits, it just changes everything about your conscious existence. You're a better coworker.
You're a better professional. You're a better parent.

Speaker 12 You're a better friend. Like it makes everything in life better.

Speaker 11 All right, we have something pulled on your sleep approach. Let's watch.
Okay. Yeah.
Okay. This is your, it's a, it's a full screen graphic showing your sleep stages.
And you can get this on the ring.

Speaker 11 Like I have the aura ring and it'll show you something just like this. That's what you're talking about, like a wearable, where it shows your, your REM, your light, and your deep sleep is important.

Speaker 11 It's not just REM stage that we're looking at.

Speaker 12 Exactly. So two things about that graph that you're looking at.
One is that.

Speaker 12 There was a recent study published that showed that people with their first REM cycle within 90 minutes were healthy from a perspective of cognitive decline.

Speaker 12 And people who had their first REM cycle three to four hours after going to sleep had signs of cognitive decline, Alzheimer's. And so if you look at that graph, you see I went to bed roughly 10.

Speaker 12 That was a late night for me. I posted this because I was responding to some drama that was going on.
So I was basically saying like the drama, I'm unbothered. So I went to bed at 10.

Speaker 12 And my first REM cycle, let's see, it's 1130. Yeah, so basically within 90 minutes of me falling asleep is my first REM, which is right on the point.

Speaker 12 So everybody, if you're watching this, look at your sleep cycle and look at the demarcation of when you fall asleep and then look at your first REM cycle. You want to be 90 minutes or less.

Speaker 12 If you're in the three to four hour range, then it's something to pay attention to because you may have some early cognitive decline and you just want to be mindful of that.

Speaker 11 Do you do the 66 degree thing? What do you do about temperature and setting?

Speaker 12 Yeah, so I have a eight sleep mattress, which is a temperature controlled.

Speaker 12 And so as you go through your various stages of sleep, so as you fall into, so when you go to bed, the reason why going to bed on time is so important is because if your bedtime's at 10 p.m., your body is expecting you to get rest at 10 p.m.

Speaker 12 And if you go to bed at 12 and say, well, I'm just going to make up the two hours in the morning, the body doesn't do that. So your deep sleep happens largely in the first window of time, right?

Speaker 12 If you go to sleep, so like between 10 and 12, you can see it from my sleep data, a big portion of my deep sleep happens in that early stage and if you miss that window you miss your deep sleep now think about deep sleep like a garbage truck rolling through your brain and picking up the trash when you miss the deep sleep the garbage truck doesn't run its course and so that's why going to bed on time is so important being consistent because then your body cleans out the garbage and you get this deep restorative sleep so again this is why like sleep is the number one life priority it just fuels all your functions that's why you want to be on time you want to have be very mindful of your last meal of the day and what you eat, your resting heart rate.

Speaker 12 It just is like, and this is the thing that's funny is I never got taught how to sleep.

Speaker 12 Like, how is it that I spend half, you know, a third of my life sleeping and I never got like taught in school or even culturally how to sleep.

Speaker 11 We, we had a Matthew Walker on the program a couple of years ago, this sleep expert, he wrote this great book about it.

Speaker 11 And he was saying, this is so important that you should, when, when you're considering travel, when you're considering business, whatever it is that you have to do, your social life, you need to build it all around protecting that eight-hour period.

Speaker 11 If you go to bed at 10, you are going to bed at 10 no matter what, and everything else must move unless it's an extreme circumstance, like, okay, I had to fly to Australia for whatever.

Speaker 11 But only, it should be 1% of the time that you're moving those hours around.

Speaker 12 Yes, I agree with that entirely.

Speaker 11 All right, now here's from the Netflix documentary, something else that happens in your sleep that you monitor, which is for the guys out there. SOP 24.

Speaker 18 Here is an eggplant.

Speaker 20 This is the device made by Adam from

Speaker 20 what you do is you would normally think this is very awkward.

Speaker 12 It's not.

Speaker 20 You just put it on the penis and you forget it's there. So you put it on the base of the penis.

Speaker 19 There you go.

Speaker 20 And then throughout the night, as you become erect, it measures both the engorgement and the duration. So you have a map the entire night of your erection cycles.

Speaker 20 Now mine, I had four total erections for a duration of just over three hours.

Speaker 20 To put this in context, my nighttime erections are the length of the Titanic, the movie, not the boat, and that is better than an average 18-year-old.

Speaker 11 All right, so why does that matter?

Speaker 12 Yeah, so females go through the same erection cycles that men do. It's just measuring the clitoris is more difficult.
So just like men, women's clitoris engorges at night.

Speaker 12 uh over several different uh sessions and to different degrees of arousal and then men wake up with a morning erection and women wake up with a morning bean. And so it's both in females and males.

Speaker 12 And so this was kind of an accident where we started doing this. I was doing another therapy, this electromagnetic stimulation.
We were trying to rebuild muscles in the anus and the bladder.

Speaker 12 Because as you age, it becomes harder for you to control those muscles, especially women who give birth, where you have to do kegel exercises to rebuild those muscles.

Speaker 12 And so we were doing this therapy. And when I started doing it, I just noticed that I was getting erect in my sleep all the time.

Speaker 12 So I raised this question with my scientific team and said, why is this happening? And then we did this deep dive that nighttime erections is actually a really important marker of health.

Speaker 12 It represents cardiovascular health, physiological health, and psychological health. In fact, it's one of the most important things anybody can know about their health.

Speaker 12 Like put it on the same level as cholesterol and blood pressure. It's really important.
Wow. But no one talked about it.

Speaker 12 It's really, it's, and you can't like go, you go to the gym and like work out hard to lift weights and be strong and have good cardio, but you can't go to sleep and work hard at having arousal cycles.

Speaker 12 You can't try to have the boners, it just happens. And so it's a default representation of your health.
And so it really is like you can't fake it.

Speaker 12 And so, yeah, we talk a lot about sexual health and these physiological, physiological functions. So people hear boners, they hear about the sexual talk and they kind of giggle and stuff.

Speaker 12 But men who don't have nighttime erections are five times more likely to die prematurely. It's really a staggering statistic.
No, I have to absolutely.

Speaker 11 And where can they get the little ring that you were putting on the eggplant in that demonstration?

Speaker 12 So sorry, quick question. 70% more likely to die prematurely.
It's a company, Atom Health, out of the UK.

Speaker 11 Okay. Wow.
I mean, I had no idea. Let's talk about the food, because I said you eat vegan, but you're not against red meat, which is what I read.
Is that true?

Speaker 12 Yeah, I'm plant-based, excluding collagen peptides. And, you know, food is such a sacred thing for people.
I come in peace. I'm not at war.
Like, do your thing. Like, all good.

Speaker 12 We just try to follow the science and evidence of how to use food to slow my body's speed of aging as much as possible.

Speaker 11 Okay. So talk to us about, I didn't understand that first qualifier, what you said, you eat vegetables without some long word.

Speaker 12 Okay, yeah, yeah. So what I eat every day is I eat a diet of 2,250 calories.
And the premise is that every calorie must fight for its life.

Speaker 12 It has to basically be a top performing calorie, like something that does something good on my body.

Speaker 12 And so when you put that filter, many foods don't make it through, like bread just doesn't make it through as worthy of consumption.

Speaker 12 And so the foods that do make it through are legumes, like lentils and edamame and beans, a lot of vegetables, broccoli, cauliflower, I get a ton of vegetables, extra virgin olive oil.

Speaker 12 I eat more of that than any other food source. Nuts, berries, seeds.
And then I do collagen peptides. So my proteins are from pea and hemp protein, lentils, but I don't eat any meat.

Speaker 12 You know, this is, And the diet we have is proven.

Speaker 12 I mean, I can say there's more scientific evidence around this diet to slow down someone's speed of aging and slow disease progression than any other diet in the world.

Speaker 12 So we're just following data and science on what exactly are the best foods put in one's body for longevity.

Speaker 11 What would you say is the most important marker you look for, like on a daily basis? What's the one that you're like, okay, that one looks good. I feel good.

Speaker 11 I mean, I know you care about them all, but name like the top two.

Speaker 12 Honestly, one, one, it's resting heart rate before bed. It's like the number one.
And the reason why it's so good is because that is determined by when you eat, what you eat.

Speaker 12 It determines how well you sleep and how well you sleep determines whether you're going to exercise. And whether you exercise determines on what you're going to eat.

Speaker 12 And then your resting heart rate is also a representation of your cardiovascular health. You know, are you exercising? Is your heart in a good state?

Speaker 12 So that one marker really captures whole body health.

Speaker 11 And so, and it's also like when you say like if you challenge yourself to get it down over the course of two weeks, how do you do that?

Speaker 12 Yeah, so let's say tonight, uh, Meg, you do this and your heart rate, your resting heart rate is 60 beats per minute. And you say, okay, I'm going to challenge myself to be at 50 in two weeks' time.

Speaker 12 So you can do several things. One is have your final meal of the day begin two hours before bedtime.
So mint, chocolate, chick, ice cream. Like, let's, it's no longer part of the agenda.

Speaker 12 And then move your final meal back an hour each day. So try your last meal of the day at 7 p.m.
and six and five and four, and just push it back a bit more more and more.

Speaker 12 And you'll find your right spot. You'll see as you push your final meal the day back, your heart rate is going to drop.
Number two is to have a wind down routine. So what time is your bedtime?

Speaker 11 10 o'clock.

Speaker 12 Okay, so 10, at 9 p.m. So give yourself roughly an hour.
I do this self-talk process. So at 9 p.m., let's say sleep Meg is going to come on duty.

Speaker 12 And there she is, and she's going to hold the fork down.

Speaker 12 Now at 9.01, let's just say ambitious Meg is going to show up and she's going to say, Meg, I have this brand new idea on something we want to do on the show. Like it's going to be a banger.

Speaker 12 And then sleep Meg says, sorry, we're currently in sleep mode. We're going to write this idea down.
And then tomorrow we're going to think about this. And then 9.02 p.m.,

Speaker 12 anxious Meg is going to show up and she's going to say, today on the show, you said this thing. I don't know.
It was kind of, you know, wasn't delivered well. Came across poorly.

Speaker 12 And you can say, thank you, Anxious Meg, for keeping me in check. This is so wonderful.
But you need to do this self-talk because otherwise you spin loops.

Speaker 12 So when your head hits the pillow at 10 p.m., you're still trying to reconcile the day's events, like what you're mad about, what you're happy about, how you're sad, like why you're anxious.

Speaker 12 And then secondarily is when you wake up in the night, one or two, three in the morning, you wake up and you're spinning on all these different thoughts.

Speaker 12 So you need to have some kind of wind down routine. So that self-talk is really important.
Then also you can read a book. You can go for a walk.
My favorite thing is holding a book.

Speaker 12 Like an actual book in my hand to read for 15 to 20 minutes, talk to a friend.

Speaker 12 But that last hour of the day is really important to calm your nervous system down and say, we are going to get ready for sleep. That will drive down your heart rate.

Speaker 11 I like that a lot. So it's not about exercise, it's about the routine.

Speaker 12 Yeah, entirely. It's calming your body down to say, we are ready for sleep.
You have to like really get into it.

Speaker 12 You can't just like show up, put your head on the pillow and be like, yep, we're ready to go. The body is just not ready for it.
So, other things you can do is you can be consistent.

Speaker 12 So, if your bedtime's at 10, try to be in bed every single night at 10 p.m., plus or minus 30 minutes. I logged the best sleep score in human history, eight months of perfect sleep.

Speaker 12 I was in bed within one minute every night, and it was was just amazing. The body keeps the track of time as well as a watch.

Speaker 12 It knows like at 8.29, it would just like drop what's called my adenosine in my brain and be like, you're out. And so then the other thing is be mindful of light.

Speaker 12 So blue lights, like screens, and you know, screens really, and even household lights. So try to have red lights and amber lights.
Turn off your screens.

Speaker 12 And if you do these things, your body's really going to support you. Like your body is amazingly good at sleep.

Speaker 12 You just need to give it the habits and like the protocols where it can really perform at its best.

Speaker 11 Oh, this is like, well, this is interesting because you're not married. You're 47 years old.
You're not married.

Speaker 11 But I will say, like, sleeping with another person in the bed is definitely a challenge, right?

Speaker 11 Because it's like, you not only have to worry about your tossing and turning given the night, but his too. And I always joke with Doug, I'm like,

Speaker 11 I'll look at him and I'll say SD, which stands for sleep divorce, if he wakes me up too many times over the evening or, you know, speaking of nighttime erections. Anyway,

Speaker 11 yeah, you know, honestly, like, it's an issue.

Speaker 12 So like you may want to talk to dog about this because there really is some good evidence some people do well sleeping with each other like they actually help each other sleep better other people they just they're out of sync uh for whatever reason and i would say that sometimes the very best things people can do for their marriage is to not sleep in the same room it they both sleep better they're in better moods like they just are they're more conducive to a more positive relationship so yeah i think when you can sleep alone it's really something you should strongly consider can i ask you about relationships because one of the things that stands out in the Netflix special is how close you and your son are.

Speaker 11 And it's actually really beautiful. It was kind of almost brought me to tears a couple of times how much you love him and how close you guys are.

Speaker 11 And it's a little sad because the rest of your family, your other two kids and your ex-wife, it sounds like they kind of disowned you when you left the church, the Mormon church.

Speaker 11 By the way, I didn't know that the Mormon church did that. I thought that was just a Scientology thing.
Is that normal in the Mormon church?

Speaker 12 Yeah, I mean, it's very much like in-group, out-group stuff.

Speaker 12 You know, it's like in-group, you you really have the truth and the out group is a threat and or someone to be saved it's not a very friendly bridge like you you always i mean i was mormon for so many years you always have an agenda when you meet somebody it's not like a neutral thing you're you're trying to convert them in some subtle way because you're always trying to find the edge it's very much an evangelizing religion where you're always trying to do it so it's it's yeah they they think of me entirely of saved not saved going to heaven not going to heaven framework and so they just can't trust me because I'm not in the in-group and I can't give them that

Speaker 12 same framework. So yeah, it's really, I mean, it's like probably the most painful experience of my life to be,

Speaker 12 to be held at arm's length of my own children. And I have worked really, really hard to be a good parent.
And parents know this, like you just can never know with your kids.

Speaker 12 Like there's no guarantee that your effort pays off. And of course, kids go through different cycles.
But yeah, it's been. It's been really painful.
I love them very much.

Speaker 12 I really want to be in their lives. And it's very hard that another thing separates us.

Speaker 11 Well, you and Talmudge seem to have a very good relationship. He seems like a great kid.
He's now in college, or at least went off to college as the Netflix special was being filmed.

Speaker 11 And but one thing I did wonder, and without giving too much away from the documentary, you do find a way to create socialization in your life and to have friend groups around you, but love is important.

Speaker 11 You know, that love relationship, that, you know, romantic love. I definitely think it's life extending for a number of reasons.
And I wondered about that.

Speaker 11 Like, of course, I'm sure you want it just as a human, but as a life extending mechanism, how do you feel about it?

Speaker 12 Yeah, I mean, the evidence is very good that people in strong relationships live longer. It is just like one of the very best things you can do.
So I do work very hard at relationships.

Speaker 12 I work very hard at my personal relationships. And I think that, you know,

Speaker 12 I grew up in Mormonism. I never even had a girlfriend growing up.
I married the first girl that it was kind of like an arranged marriage.

Speaker 12 And so I just never really learned how how to build relationships. And so I'm getting a lot better now.
I'm very excited about where I'm at in life. And I think I figured out kind of some basics.

Speaker 12 So again, like, I guess I'm maybe late to the party. I'm 47.
I'm just learning the basics of how to sleep, how to build relationships in life. And

Speaker 12 maybe I'm unique, but I just feel like I'm, I'm finally coming around to learning some of these basic things of life.

Speaker 11 You talk in the documentary about how

Speaker 11 you'll disclose to these women, there's a lot of things you're not going to like about my lifestyle. And then you've been proven right a few times with women, like, you're a lot.

Speaker 11 But I actually think the odds are high that you will meet a woman who's very into this and who will live this life with you in her hyperbaric chamber right next to yours.

Speaker 11 I think you just have to, you know, put it out there more and meet more women. But I hope you do because I think that's a missing piece of your formula.

Speaker 11 Speaking of the hyperbaric chamber, we've got video of you in it. What's happening here?

Speaker 11 Okay, you're wearing, it's video. It looks like you're in some sort of a, like a carnival ride.

Speaker 11 And the apparatus on your face for the listening audience looks very much like what, you know, the people who are older and they can't sleep well overnight wear. They put that thing on their face.

Speaker 11 It looks like an oxygen mask with all these tubes coming out of it. What's happening here?

Speaker 12 Yeah, so this is called hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

Speaker 12 And so what you do is the pressurization inside that chamber gets to two atmospheres, which is roughly the same kind of pressure you'd have about 30 meters below seawater, the ocean level.

Speaker 12 And so it's very pressurized. And then in that mask, I'm breathing in 100% oxygen.
And so the therapy is you hyper-oxygenate the entire body.

Speaker 12 So when you breathe oxygen, you get oxygen into your various organs and whatnot, but not to an ultra-saturation. And so when you're in that chamber and it's very,

Speaker 12 there's a lot of pressure. plus you're getting 100% oxygen versus 20% in our atmosphere, you're getting oxygen very deeply infused throughout the entire body.

Speaker 12 And that has all kinds of rejuvenation effects. So

Speaker 12 this is the same process we go through where we try to find therapies that have great, have gold standard scientific evidence that have rejuvenation properties in the body.

Speaker 12 Like I'm trying to make my entire body age 18. And so we found hyperbaric oxygen therapy and the evidence was good for like acute brain injury, a traumatic brain injury.

Speaker 12 It was good for certain conditions, but we didn't really see anyone doing it for longevity with a whole bunch of measurements. So I measured my body with about 50 different biomarkers.

Speaker 12 I did 60 sessions in the chamber, and then we measured again. Our final result is coming in today, but it has been one of the most efficacious therapies we've ever done.

Speaker 12 Uh, it boosts it, it dramatically improved my brain health, improved my inflammation, improved joint health, um, it increased my cardiovascular ability, my VO2 max, it reduced senescent cells, it did whole body skin rejuvenation.

Speaker 12 Like, it has been one of the most successful therapies we've ever done. And, like, we do with everything else, we just share it publicly.

Speaker 12 Uh, 90 minutes per session.

Speaker 11 And is it, I mean, I think of the hyperbaric chamber. Isn't that where they put you when you've had like a scuba accident? Like they, you have to go in the hyperbaric chamber.

Speaker 11 So it seems like sort of a remedial measure. Is there any downside to you in using that 90 minutes a day and coming out of it and trying to live your life?

Speaker 12 No, so that's the thing is, that's why I posted this video. I was playing around like I always do.
is I said that I moved my moved my office into my hyperbaric chamber.

Speaker 12 And so I basically, I'm just sharing that when you're trying to have the best biomarkers of anybody on planet Earth, you need to basically take very detailed attention to everything you do on a daily basis.

Speaker 12 But yet I also run four different companies. And so I have to build these therapies into my lifestyle.
So I was showing that I have my computer in there and I work.

Speaker 12 So now it's just part of my daily lifestyle. And

Speaker 12 I guess it's fun because

Speaker 12 we can surface these therapies that have so much potential to help people. Now, this is like a big system.

Speaker 12 Hyperbaric oxygen oxygen therapy is very hard to get access to, but we're trying to push it forward for everybody, right?

Speaker 12 This is like the whole thing is we're trying to make people aware that you can, in fact, do meaningful things to change your health and wellness.

Speaker 11 Yeah. I mean, maybe there'll be some

Speaker 11 man of the people version where it's just like you, you take in oxygen an hour a day while you're sitting at your desk and somehow that has a better effect on you.

Speaker 11 This is how it starts with the big thing and then it whittles down to the common man and woman, like me, and we try some other version of it.

Speaker 11 So again, I appreciate the the fact that you're willing to put yourself through this stuff. Stand by.

Speaker 11 We're going to take a quick break and we'll come back more with Brian Johnson's routines and recommendations. Take them for what they're worth.
I think it's actually kind of exciting.

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Speaker 11 All right, Brian, forgive me for asking an impertinent question, but the dramatic change in your looks is really something.

Speaker 11 Like when you see how you used to look when you were younger versus how you look now. And I hope this isn't insulting, but there's been a little bit of a feminization.
Do you think that's fair to say?

Speaker 11 Like you look slightly more feminine to me now. What's that about? And is that intentional or is that a result of supplements? What's going on there?

Speaker 12 Yeah, nothing intentional.

Speaker 12 I mean, the thing is, what we tried to do is I did something unique where four years ago, we said, okay, if this idea is correct, that we are the first generation that won't die, how would you even go about doing it?

Speaker 12 It's kind of like Lewis and Clark or going to the moon or sailing west

Speaker 12 to see if the world is round or not.

Speaker 12 So we kind of said, how do you do this? And so I hired a team of 30 doctors and we went about and we measured the biological age of every organ of my body.

Speaker 12 Now, intuitively, again, I may be 43 years old at the time, but if you look at at an 80-year-old and a two-year-old, you can compare those two individuals and say one is older than the other.

Speaker 12 They also also have different life expectancies. And then as you get more narrow, is there a difference between a 10-year-old and a 70-year-old and a 20-year-old and a 60-year-old?

Speaker 12 And you can say yes. And so if you get more granular, you can arrive at the idea that you can measure biological age in all your organs.
And so I did that.

Speaker 12 And then we said, what is the best science to actually now slow down my speed of aging and reverse aging damage? And we've just followed the data and the science.

Speaker 12 And so when you see my appearance evolve, it's just we're following data and science. We do nothing about appearance like that is proactive.

Speaker 12 We just say, how can I drive this process of aging to the slowest possible rate and reverse aging damage? So it really is just like a real-time live science experiment.

Speaker 11 Wow. Okay.
So

Speaker 11 you mentioned in the, or we mentioned in the setup to this, that part of the routine is supplements. A lot of them from this out of 53 or 54 pills in the morning, and then another dosage comes.

Speaker 11 What are, I mean, just give us a feel for what the most important ones are in your routine.

Speaker 12 Yeah, so the most important ones for anybody are the ones you're deficient in. So the key thing, which I advocate more than anything, is measurement.
It's always helpful to do measurement.

Speaker 12 And a lot of people, they'll want to do positive things to themselves. They'll want to do a cold plunge or a sauna, but they don't measure.
They don't know where their baseline is.

Speaker 12 They don't know what's supposed to be the outcome, which makes sense. Measurement is hard and it's expensive, but really the most valuable thing you can do is measure.

Speaker 12 So, the most basic thing is like resting heart rate. Great, exactly.
So, for free tonight before bed, resting heart rate. You can do a blood test, exactly.

Speaker 12 So, my company Blueprint makes all these things available to people, like basic blood measurement. There's also a biological age test where you can see your speed of aging.

Speaker 12 How fast is your clock of aging? So, if you're one, for example, you're aging on 12 months for every 12 months it passes. My speed of aging is 0.57, which means my my birthday is every 21 months.

Speaker 12 And so knowing this data is really important. So you can measure like my a coworker of mine measured theirs and they're 1.16.
So they're aging faster than time is.

Speaker 12 And so if you, once you get that data, you can then say, what am I doing right now that is causing me to age faster? Is it poor sleep? Is it not exercise? Is it a pronged diet?

Speaker 12 And so you can start then making lifestyle changes because you want to drive that number down. So again, it's all driven by data and measurement.

Speaker 12 And you can really, these things work so well and it's very encouraging you you do something positive you get a good night's sleep or you lower your your speed of aging and it's very encouraging yeah your number has gone down even since the netflix special it was now it's even lower yeah it's one of the so there's 50 000 people in the world measuring their speed of aging it's one of the lowest in the entire world i think the second lowest in the entire world Well, I mean, you're working very hard for it.

Speaker 11 So I would expect it to be pretty darn good. Is there anything, is there any sort of magic supplement we should know about?

Speaker 11 Like of all the ones, once you've gotten yourself not deficient, this is your favorite.

Speaker 12 Yeah, so I have the blueprint stack. So I published this whole thing and I made everything for free.
And then this project went viral and people were like, cool, I'm in. I want to do it.

Speaker 12 But then it became too complex. You have to like buy these supplements and you have to put them out and do them, remember to restock.
And so they said, just make it easy. So I've done that.

Speaker 12 So Blueprint is my company. We've made everything easy.
This is not a grift. This is me trying to be

Speaker 12 responsive to people's wishes. At the same time, I make everything known for free.
So if you don't want to buy it from me, go do it on your own. That's totally cool.

Speaker 12 Either way, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to help you.

Speaker 11 Yeah, you're already rich. You don't need to make money off of this.
You mean when you owned what it sounds like, Venmo bought you or you bought Venmo and then sold it for $800 million.

Speaker 11 So you're good.

Speaker 12 Exactly. And honestly, this food business sucks.
Like it is such a pain in the ass. I hate it.

Speaker 12 Like, there's so many other things I want to be doing with my time, but also there's no one in the world who is actually solving this basic problem of how do you get non-toxic high quality food.

Speaker 12 I learned, I mean, everything I put into my body, we would test at a lab. And I have come to find out very sadly that food is guilty until proven innocent.

Speaker 12 It is just the food supply globally is toxic. So now we're, in the next 90 days, we're going to try to map the U.S.
food ohm. We're going to try to measure the toxin levels.
of the

Speaker 12 80% of foods that we eat on a daily basis. And we're going to then be able to say like the the average American consumes a blank amount of mercury per day and blank amount of lead.

Speaker 12 No one has done that. And so, yeah, I mean, but where do you get your food from?

Speaker 11 Are it all like greenhouse-based or where do you get your food?

Speaker 12 We source food from all over the world. Again, this is what Blueprint does.
So we source from people all over the world who have the right farming practices and do the right purity testing.

Speaker 12 You, I've learned you, I can't go to any grocery store anywhere, even a farmer's market and expect it to be clean because they don't control their water supply. They don't control the soil.

Speaker 12 They don't control these things. So it's just like a toxin stew we live in.
And so, yeah, it's a really, really big problem.

Speaker 12 And I think people feel powerless. So we're going to try to bring some numerical baselines, like this is what's happening in the world.

Speaker 12 And so, but we really, I think if you say, why is, why are we struggling so hard as a species being well? I mean, our habits are also terrible, but also our food supply is very toxic.

Speaker 12 So we've, I think, we will have this map in the next few months and have a good baseline for the entire world.

Speaker 11 Long live Maha and the revolution coming. I mean, at least now we're starting to pay some attention to this.
You've got to be a fan of RFKJ, no?

Speaker 12 Yeah, he's a friend. And, you know,

Speaker 12 I'm eager to help out in any way I can. It really is.
I think it'd be a really cool goal for America to have the

Speaker 12 best life expectancy of any country in the world. I think it'd be a, I mean, nobody loses when we're in good health.
Like everybody wins. And so I think it's like something we can rally upon.

Speaker 12 It's not like, sure, we're going to fight about this and not always, but you know, if we're actually sleeping well and feeling well, we may fight a little less.

Speaker 11 What about gene therapy? Because you went down to Honduras. You had them stick a needle in your belly trying to alter your genes.
I guess they were kind of adding something that was gene adjacent.

Speaker 11 But we spent the first hour talking about some of the downsides of the mRNA vaccine,

Speaker 11 which is gene therapy. I mean, I think mRNA is gene therapy.
So people are like, oh, God, oh, no. But you tried it.
You do discontinue things that don't work for you.

Speaker 11 You're open about like, don't this one, no, that one, no.

Speaker 11 Where do you stand on the gene therapy you got? And is that something you would do again?

Speaker 12 Yeah, we did extensive analysis on this. I had a former FDA official on my team.

Speaker 12 We had several biotech entrepreneurs, a few scientists, and we scrubbed this thoroughly, not for its efficacy, but for its safety. We were really trying to assess, is it safe?

Speaker 12 Now, in all things biotech, you can only be so certain.

Speaker 12 So like, we just don't know what we we don't know but to our best knowledge it is safe and you're right it's not something where it actually changed my dna it just changed the expression of a protein full of stat so i just have higher levels so it's really a baby step on the path to gene therapy but the i thought it was safe to experiment with i thought it was a cool experimentation uh so far the results i mean i think they've increased i think it increased my my muscle mass and also lowered my speed of aging but i think the results are early but i generally if we want to punch past the 120 ceiling we have, you know, gene therapy is going to play in a very important role.

Speaker 12 And so I am very bullish on our ability to do it. Like a lot of people, they say in this moment, like, you're crazy.
There's no way the first generation should not die.

Speaker 12 Like, how could you even surmise that? With AI, we're bringing online the equivalent of billions of PhD-level

Speaker 12 human equivalents that are investigating. all the mechanisms of aging.
Like it's just, it's an insane degree of intelligence we're bringing online to solve these things.

Speaker 12 And if if you could simply say the more people working on the problem, the more likely we're solving a solution.

Speaker 12 That's why I think like this moment really is like it's the biggest ideological change in our history from a moment where death is inevitable to where we just don't know how long and how well we can live.

Speaker 12 And so that's what this don't die movement is about is it is remapping the biggest, I mean, like solving death would be the biggest accomplishment in human history. And that's, I think, is a big one.

Speaker 12 And I think it's, it's actually insight.

Speaker 11 It's funny because most people say, as soon as I hear Honduras, I think you're crazy. Who's who would get on a plane and let somebody in Honduras stick a needle in their belly?

Speaker 11 But it's also very brave because you actually did put in the research and the time and you were very careful about what which one you were going to take a risk on. And that was how long ago now?

Speaker 12 A year and a half ago. Yeah.
And this is it.

Speaker 12 People oftentimes will say, you know, you're really doing high risk stuff. And I'll point out that they too conducted an experiment at lunch when they ate the fast food meal, that's an experiment.

Speaker 12 You know, when they were having fast food, I was having vegetables and extra virgin olive oil and I was taking my nutrients.

Speaker 12 So they too are doing experimentation with bad sleep, poor food, toxic food. They just don't realize they're actually probably higher risk than I am.

Speaker 11 It's so true. All right.
Well, you should spend a minute on exercise. You do one hour a day.
That's it. I would have, I would have thought it would have been like three hours a day.

Speaker 12 Nope, one hour a day. It's like everything in health and wellness is just the perfect amount.
So So a lot of people have this intuition to think that if one is good, two must be better. It's not.

Speaker 12 Like you want to find the exact number. And this is with sleep.
So if you look at the actual data on all cause mortality around sleep, it's seven hours.

Speaker 12 Now you can be on the on the like seven and a half. If you're highly active, it can be seven and a half, eight, but it's like right there.

Speaker 12 If you sleep nine or 10, it actually increases your risk of all cause mortality. So more sleep is not better.
You want to be just in the right amount. And that's true with exercise.

Speaker 12 So there gets to be a point where too much.

Speaker 12 And so even if you're just starting off, you know, have your final meal of the day, you know, a couple hours before bed, get your resting heart rate down, sleep really well.

Speaker 12 And even if you work out for 20 minutes, great, like a big win. The biggest risk here is someone feels overwhelmed.
You don't need to do a lot of stuff.

Speaker 12 Prioritize sleep, get 20 minutes of exercise a day, and you're doing really well. So just master the basics, get those two things right.
And if you do those things right, you'll eat better.

Speaker 12 But really, the key is to not feel overwhelmed.

Speaker 12 These very small things can make a huge difference into how you feel how do you break down your cardio versus weight training yeah i do so my the way we measure cardiovascular fitness is uh something called v02 max and it measures how well the body utilizes oxygen and so my vo2 max is 64 which is in the top one percent of elite 18 year olds so my body functions like an 18 year old in this capacity and so to train that i do what's called a four by four.

Speaker 12 So I'll be on the elliptical machine. You can run, do elliptical, anything you want, where you basically exert yourself to like 90% plus.
And then you rest for four minutes.

Speaker 12 You do that for like 40 minutes, then you rest for four minutes, and then you do it again. And so four by four training, high, high exertion, low, high, low.

Speaker 12 And then also I do zone two, which is like you want to be at like roughly where you want to exercise where you can have a conversation with somebody and not feel out of breath.

Speaker 12 So every day I do a little bit of that.

Speaker 11 Brian, you're fascinating. Thank you for sharing your story with us.
I loved the documentary. I appreciate you participating in that.
I learned a lot.

Speaker 11 And I think people can take from this whatever they find valuable. I mean, very few people are going to go the full Brian,

Speaker 11 but it's there for you. If you have a lot of money, then you...
even if you have no money can take bits and pieces of this. Certainly the sleep should be something we can all try to tackle.

Speaker 11 Brian, thank you. Thank you so much for all the information.

Speaker 12 Thank you for having me. And how do you, are you going to do a few of these things?

Speaker 11 100% tonight. And I'll get back to you.
I'll let you know how it works. I'll get your name.

Speaker 12 Please, yeah, do it. I'd love to be your accountability partner.

Speaker 11 Okay, thank you. All right.
All the best to you.

Speaker 11 Fascinating, right? Like, why not?

Speaker 11 Why aren't more people doing this? That's a real question. And in modern day America, we have so many AI tools and other great tech things available to us.
And yeah,

Speaker 11 to me, a lot of this makes sense. It's extreme, but it makes sense.
Anyway, love to hear your thoughts. Megan at megankelly.com.

Speaker 11 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

Speaker 1 Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena, and I'm Ash, and we are the hosts of Morbid Podcast.

Speaker 4 Each week we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 3 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

Speaker 8 It's smart, it's spooky, and it's just the right amount of weird.

Speaker 3 Two new episodes drop every week, and there's even a bonus once a month.

Speaker 9 Find us wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 6 Yay! Woo! Aye!

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