Blue Origin "Mission" Brutally Mocked, and Defamation Case Against NBC, with Batya Ungar-Sargon and Stacey Evans | Ep. 1050

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.
We have so much to get to today. Later, we've got the lawyer for the doctor who recently settled his massive defamation case against NBC News.
She will join me to explain exactly what they did on the Rachel Maddow show, the Nicole Wallace show, the Chris Hayes show, and on MSNBC.com with people like Jacob Soberoff that wound up costing NBC some undisclosed amount of money with which the plaintiffs say they are, quote, very happy. And the facts of this case are shocking.
We'll get to that in just a bit. But there's so much news to get to first.
There's the latest on the Abrego Garcia case. Democrat senators making absolute fools of themselves now going to bat for the illegal immigrant suspected MS-13 gang member.
This is their poster boy on the left now who was sent to El Salvador. He's El Salvadoran.
OK, there was the removal order saying don't remove him there because he might face gang violence. That gang has since evaporated.
They've been extinguished. So the danger is gone.
What we did was send him back to his home country. It's not like a gift.
I realize he's sitting in a prison. That's going to be El Salvador's problem right now.
it is a showdown, legal showdown between the Trump administration and this judge. But really, as a practical matter, we sent an El Salvadoran back to his country.
And the ladies of the Blue Origins mission, the space mission, literally, they're talking about it like it was Apollo 11. They think they're Neil Armstrong.
It's amazing. They are getting ripped now, not just from the Megyn Kellys of the world, but from all these lefties.
All these Hollywood celebs are going on Instagram and elsewhere and expressing their disdain for what these women did and how they're celebrating themselves. Wait until you hear how they talked about their 10 minute trip on Jeff Bezos's sexual fantasy rocket.
A lot to get to. Joining me now is Batya Angar Sargan, free press columnist and author of Second Class, How the Elites Betrayed America's Working Men and Women.
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Pacha, great to see you.

Great.

Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me, Megan.
It's always such a gift to be able to join you and your listeners. Oh, I love you.
I feel exactly the same way when you're on. All right.
We've got to start with Letitia James because I'm sorry, but this is a huge deal. Letitia James, attorney general of the state of New York, may be on the wrong end of the law herself.
This is all over the news right now. The allegations first reported by the outlet White Collar Fraud, Fox News bringing them on the air last night.
On Tuesday, she was hit with a federal criminal referral for instances of alleged mortgage fraud. The Federal Housing Finance Agency director, William Pulte, sent a letter to AG Pam Bondi and her deputy AG Todd Blanche accusing Letitia James of mortgage fraud.
Quote, in the course of exercising U.S. federal housing authorities under Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act, U.S.
federal housing has identified matters that are appropriate for referral to the U.S. DOJ for the consideration of criminal prosecution.
The bottom line is they're alleging that she got a second house in Virginia. She's obviously, she lives in New York.
She's the New York attorney general. She has to live in New York.
She got a second house in Virginia and then in applying for a mortgage for that house, she had a lawyer to whom she designated power of attorney declare that it was her principal residence. They allege that she did that because you get a better mortgage rate when you say it's your principal residence because banks think if you're going to default on a mortgage, it's not going to be the one of the house in which you live.
So if you fall on hard times, you're more likely to default on a second mortgage, like a beach home or a secondary thing than your primary. And that she, knowing that this was not her primary residence, obviously she's in New York and she has to be, lied.
And that you can't, having your power of attorney lie is the same as you lie. There's absolutely no distinction legally.
So they're saying she did that. Then they're saying she had a place in Brooklyn that she was going to get a special mortgage for as long as it has had four apartments or bedrooms or less.
You had to get, you could get a lower rate if you had four bedrooms or under. I can't figure out whether it was like one of those townhomes where everybody has their own apartment or whether it's a dwelling that has actual bedrooms for a family, but it's irrelevant.
The point is you get a better mortgage rate if it's got four bedrooms or less, and this place had five. And they're alleging that she wrongfully declared it had four over and over once again to get a more favorable mortgage rate.
And then on top of all that, and this is truly bizarre, they are alleging that a long time ago when I don't, she must, I don't know how old she was, but it was 1983, they're alleging that she and her father signed mortgage documents that stated they were husband and wife in order to secure a home mortgage. And then again, on May 4th, 2000, Ms.
James was listed as, with her husband, as husband and wife. And alleging that, while this was a long time ago, it raised a serious concerns about the validity of her representations on mortgage applications.
This is an earthquake. This woman devoted years of her life in the past five years to bringing down Donald Trump.

For what?

For alleged misrepresentations to banks about the value of his properties.

The allegation was so that he could secure more favorable loans than he was entitled to.

In a different dressing, it's the same general fashion as what she's being accused of herself, Batya. Now, she hasn't spoken to it directly, but her spokesperson said she's focused every single day on protecting New Yorkers, especially as this administration weaponizes.
That's rich. As this administration weaponizes the federal government against the rule of law and the Constitution, she will not be intimidated by bullies no matter who they are.
But this is unbelievable. And if one word of this is true, she is in a world of trouble right now.
Your thoughts. It's so amazing because I always say Donald Trump has a real genius for bringing out the lowest qualities in his opponents.
You look at how the Democrats have turned on all of their own values the minute they suspected Trump of supporting them, whether it was standing up for the working class or standing up for free speech or standing up for women, as you point out all the time, Megan, they simply will not ever cease or hesitate to retreat from their own values if they think Donald Trump may be representing them. But here we have something even more delicious, which is that it was revealed that the person attacking him for all of these trumped up, ridiculous charges who went after him for the pure sake of going after the political rival of the Democrats, because he was more popular than the Democrats, that she was herself allegedly engaged in the very things that she was pretending he was doing, which he was not actually doing.
It is just chef's kiss, Megan, because it is such a parallel for the Democrats who accused Donald Trump of being a threat to democracy while themselves undermining democracy. They accuse him of weaponizing the law while themselves weaponizing the law.
And this is just like such a beautiful, perfect bow on top of the box of their hypocrisy, where he again and again comes out ahead. It's incredible.
She she's going to be hoisted on her own petard because she's spent the past three years, four years arguing about how no one is above the law. The powerful must be treated the same as the poor, that just because you're rich and famous doesn't give you the right to manipulate the banking system to get more favorable loans.
Oh, my God. All of that is going to be shoved right down her throat and into her craw in the context of this investigation and this case.
Now she'll tell us what her defense is. I'm all ears.
Cannot wait to hear how she's had alleged repeated slip ups on her mortgages. Like one, you could understand.
I don't know, like maybe the dwelling that she said is four bedrooms instead of five, maybe they did something with the fifth bedroom. You know, like she's like counting as a study, although that's not the way it works.
On a mortgage law, they wanna know like what qualifies as a bedroom. They don't care how you're using it.
I'm just trying to look for ways to give her the benefit of the doubt. I'm not sure how you say your father is your husband.
That's a tough one. It's not exactly what she's being prosecuted for.
But if true, it absolutely shows a pattern of dishonesty. And by the way, pattern evidence can get in in criminal trials.
They've been using it against Harvey Weinstein and others up and down Letitia James's New York state criminal system. So this woman's in a lot of trouble today.
I'm telling you, this is serious. Having read the complaint, Jonathan Turley was on Fox last night and he said exactly this.
It took me less than a minute to find cases prosecuted under this statute for false claims of principal residences and the other allegations. So this is not some unusual statute that they bring up from time to time for enemies.
This is actually quite frequently enforced and says this woman previously prosecuted Trump for everything short of ripping a label off a mattress. She emphasized he was ultimately responsible for any filings made in his name or that of his company, irrespective of whether he had seen them or signed them personally.
He authorized them just as she would have here and said the great he said the greatest danger for Letitia James may be if the Letitia James standard is applied to her, where she emphasized such technicalities matter and that the powerful should not be given a free pass. This is, this is just unbelievable.
I mean, Fannie Willis goes down because she couldn't like keep her zipper up long enough to actually see the prosecution of Donald Trump through. Right.
And then I believe she lied under oath very clearly to me, uh, as, as well as her paramour, Nathan Wade. So that case crumbled, it crumbled even though it was a state case.
He couldn't be pardoned. There were all sorts of reasons why that one was problematic.
But to your point, his enemies are just the worst people. Then Jack Smith loses the Florida case before Trump even won because he was the wrong prosecutor.
They held that the appointment of this particular prosecutor was wrong. The J6 case was all but gutted by the Supreme Court, saying he's got presidential immunity for most of this.
The only one who got Trump was Alvin Bragg. And even that case was really undermined by that presidential immunity finding and ultimately kind of crumbled at the very end, even though Alvin Bragg was determined to see it through so he could call Trump a convicted felon.

And I think it'll be reversed on appeal.

So what do you have now?

You do have the E. Jean Carroll verdict, which we all know is bullshit.

And then there's this case by Letitia James, which was the one I was told by Trump insiders was the one that bothered him the most all along.

It's his company, his near and dear company. And what's being alleged in this lawsuit is that that case was pursued by an alleged fraudster herself.
Yeah. And if this is true, I mean, Megan, if you had done this stuff, right, like the stuff she's accused of doing, you might sort of hesitate before going out and having the most high profile person on planet Earth be accused by you of the same exact things.
So you have to understand here, how is it possible that she could have staked so much knowing that she had done the same thing if this is all true? And I think the answer to that is really important. Democrats fundamentally do not consider conservatives and Republicans to be human in the same way that they are.
They don't see them as comparable. And the confidence with which she used the justice system to go after Trump for the very crimes that she herself is alleged of having committed suggests to me this kind of confidence that the system will always work, not justly, but in their favor, right? There's a kind of unconscious acknowledgement here, an admission, if you will, that they believe that they are not held to the same standard as conservatives and Republicans and certainly Donald Trump.
And I think for me, that's what's really interesting about this. She was like out there with the red drape, you know, tempting the bull.
Who could forget the many times we heard this from her in Sot3? I will never be afraid to challenge this illegitimate president when our fundamental rights are at stake. I believe that the president of these United States can be indicted for criminal offenses.
That man in the White House. Who can't go a day without threatening our fundamental rights.
Yes, we need to focus on Donald Trump and his abuses. We need to follow his money.
We need to find out where he's laundered money. We need to find out whether or not he's engaged in conspiracy.
It's important that everyone understand that the days of Donald Trump are coming to an end. I look forward to going into the office of attorney general every day, suing him, defending your rights and then going home.
That's a Fox News, but it's unbelievable, right? By the way, just pro tip, Letitia James, your father is not your husband unless you've done something very wrong. And so is he.
That's just just as a starter. And also, when you apply for mortgages, you have to be truthful.
I did look it up. It's a five family dwelling.
So there's no ambiguity. It's a five family dwelling that according to, um, this guy, this, uh, the guy I just referenced, hold on, I'll make sure I get his title.
Correct. Director William Pulte of the federal housing finance Agency.
He says that she declared that it was four units because a building that exceeds four units, that's greater than four, that's five like hers, must be treated as a multifamily property and typically has larger down payment requirements and higher interest rate terms. And he said it appears that, quote, Ms.
James may have listed the Brooklyn, New York property as four units instead of five in order to meet the conforming loan requirements and thus receive better interest rates. Ms.
James also appears to have used the same falsification in order to receive mortgage assistance through this federal program, which he abbreviates here. So like I said, the red cape, Batya, and guess what? The bull has come running.
I mean,

this isn't yet on Trump. This is, I have no idea whether Mr.
Pulte had any, I don't know how he

got started on this. No idea.
But he's now referring it to Pam Bondi saying you should

prosecute this. This is a very serious matter.
And I have a feeling Pam Bondi will feel the same. And of course, the Democrats are going to accuse the Trump administration of weaponization and so forth, right? Because that's their favorite thing to do, which is, you know, as we've said many times on this show, every accusation from them is really a confession.
If it wasn't clear before how much they believe that they have the right to use the institutions of this country, whether it's the justice system or the university system or our economy, in order to further their own political gains, to seize power and to line their pockets with the proceeds, this really is the cherry on the cake of that. It's unbelievable.
You got to be squeaky clean when you are a prosecutor or an attorney general. And I'm sorry, this isn't 2020 hindsight.
Everybody knows that. Everybody knows that.
Just even while I was practicing law as a civilian, I wasn't in a government role. I knew that.
I knew I had to be super careful on every tax return. Just I felt as

an officer of the court, I was held to a higher standard and I took it seriously and I was honored

to do it. I felt like I was sworn into the bar.
I had to take an ethical test and pass that

separately to convince these people to let me represent people in court and uphold my

Thank you. the bar.
I had to take an ethical test and pass that separately to convince these people to let me represent people in court and uphold my word as an officer of a court and in dealing with judges and so on. All those same things apply to her and then some because she's actually got criminal indictment power.
She can put people behind bars or she can devastate their businesses. So being above reproach is especially important for someone like Letitia James.
And this I'm not going to comment thing, this breezing past the reporters or she was on a fake phone call this morning, ain't gonna cut it. She's she's finding out that's what's happening right now.
She made up a fake crime to go after Donald Trump with. It was a civil suit, but she made up a fake legal indictment against him where she sued him to within an inch of his net worth and tried to ruin his business and actually is on her way toward doing it, although she's going to get reversed.
And you know what? You really do need to have clean hands if you're going to play that kind of game. Letitia James, we'll see how it goes for you.
Okay. Speaking of unclean hands, the case of Abrego Garcia, this guy, wait until you hear what we've just found out about this guy.
He's the left poster boy, favorite poster boy child for just a Maryland dad who President Trump picked on. He just picked him up for no good reason and shipped him off to that El Salvador in prison.
Well, one of the things they're trying to do, and this audience, we've talked to him many times, but he's not just a Maryland dad. He's not a U.S.
citizen. He's from El Salvador.
He was picked up and he was brought here illegally by his parents when he was 16. In 2019, he was arrested for suspected gang activity.
And in the context of investigating this guy, they figured out that he was an illegal. And he was ordered removed.
A district court judge, an immigration trial judge, and then an appellate court above her both agreed he needed to be removed. He pled for mercy, saying, please, you can't send me back to El Salvador because there's gang activity.
They might want to kill me. And they said, OK, you don't have to go back to El Salvador.

And he's been kind of just like hovering here ever since on our benevolence and saying,

you know, you're kickoutable, but we won't send you back there.

Anyway, that's where things stand with him. And in order to soften the hearts probably of American women in particular, but Americans

cross country, they've been parading out his mother and his wife. He's a good husband.
He's a great father. I'm going to read you some of what she's said, saying, let's see.
We have a thought. Okay, never mind.
We cut a thought. Watch it.
The Trump administration has labeled him a human trafficker, even an MS-13 gang leader.

How do you respond to those claims?

So everything they're saying, it's wrong.

My husband is a loving father.

And what I know is he's an amazing husband, an amazing father.

That's who he truly is.

OK, amazing husband and father.

Now, this just broke today.

Andy Ngo, who's been on this show many times, Andy Ngo first reported this and then it was picked up by Bill Malugian of Fox and now has been verified by Bill Malugian of Fox based on Maryland state records. This great husband, this wonderful father, not once, but more than once has been accused of domestic violence by that woman who was giving that interview right there.
And the court records have been pulled. There's one from 2020.
The case is now closed. There's another one from 2021.
The case is now closed. Um, and she signed this under penalty of perjury.
Yeah, in connection with his deportation. From the moment he was detained, my children and I were sad and worried.
He's always been a loving, reliable partner and father. We struggled without him emotionally and economically.
That loving partner accused, yeah, repeatedly of domestic violence against this spouse. And we don't yet have the details, but I guarantee you we're going to get them.
And what that does, Batya, is it undermines this woman's credibility entirely. She at least two that we've found so far records of alleged domestic violence.
How did we find that out?

From her, undoubtedly. This is not some sweetheart, like loving kid who the Trump administration is just picking on.
This guy was found by two courts to have ties to MS-13, to be in MS-13. And now we see an accused serial domestic abuser.

One of the horrific things about Biden's open border policy and in general, the, you know,

handshake agreement between both parties until Trump showed up that we should have masses of illegal immigrants coming into this country, is that in the name of some sort of compassion for

the global indigent, we should bring these people in. What actually happened, which

I'm going to show crossing the Darien Gap. A third of the women who do so admit to being raped.
So you can imagine what the actual number is. Those people become enslaved to the cartels once they get here.
And because of the threat of deportation for something like domestic violence, women do not report it when an illegal migrant husband beats the crap out of them. Because what's supposed to happen when you commit a vicious crime like that is you're supposed to get deported.
So the fact that this woman actually twice seems to have gone to the authorities about the domestic abuse she was suffering at the hands of her husband, that's not actually the norm. Because many women don't do that because they would rather suffer it than see their husband deported.
Now, the question is, why was he not deported for the two times that he beat the crap out of his wife? I would like to know. I mean, there was so much that went wrong here, allegedly, so much that went wrong here.
Megan, I read that the stay of deportation was not just that he would get killed by a rival gang, but the word rival being crucial there, right? That was part of the proof that he was in MS-13, right? So he was allowed to stay on the grounds that he belonged to a gang. I mean, the immigration system, the court system is so messed up here.
And the Democrats are acting like because these activists in the system from the the lawyers to the judges, shirked their responsibility. Therefore, Trump is at fault for carrying it out.
And I just have to say, Megan, I hope the Democrats keep white knighting for Hamas defenders and for people who beat up their wives, for people who belonged to gangs, to illegal immigrants, because this is a losing issue and they don't know it because their base is the top 20 percent who loves this stuff. Right.
They cannot see that the majority of people in America, this just is not going to bother them because this person is not a good person and they don't want him for a neighbor. Now, if you turn on any of the liberal channels, you'll see, you know, the elite sitting there saying, well, you know, maybe, maybe I don't want him for a neighbor, but we should adjudicate that in a court.
That's because he'll never be your neighbor. He'll be some working class Americans neighbor whose children have to play with his kids who know that his mom, their mom is being beat up by their dad.
Allegedly. We'll see what what the details are there.
And it's just so disgusting. The elitism here.
You have United States senators getting on planes to wait for this person. Let's let's talk about that.
Let me show that. So Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, which is, you know, he's just a Maryland dad.
That's all just a sweet Maryland dad that Trump's picking on. He decided to go to El Salvador.
I can't wait to see how this works out, frankly. And he thinks he's going to storm the prison, I guess, and do firsthand reporting on it.
Oh, good luck with that, sir. Take your chances, because I don't think you want to mess around with President Bukele.
Here he is posting a video from the airport explaining the trip. I'm here at the airport.
I'm about to board my flight for San Salvador. The goal of this mission is to let the Trump administration, to let the government of El Salvador know that we are going to keep fighting to bring Albrego Garcia home until he returns to his family.
I hope to meet with representatives of the government. I hope to have the chance to actually see Kilmar

and see what his condition is.

But we are going to keep fighting

because this is a miscarriage of justice.

This is about due process.

This is about rule of law.

What bullies do is they begin by picking

on the most vulnerable.

But if we get rid of the rule of law,

due process, the United States,

it's a short road from there to tyranny.

Yeah, like their wives.

That is what bullies do.

They pick on the most vulnerable.

And, you know, sometimes they have repeated instances of beating the shit out of the person they're supposed to love most.

I don't know whether Abrego Garcia did that in this case, but I'm looking at two Maryland court records in which his wife,

I don't know if they were married at the time, but the same woman, Jennifer Vasquez,

that he's with now filed for a protective order against him for domestic violence.

He's not the only one. I'll give you one more and I'll give you the floor.
Senator Chris Murphy from my new adopted home state of Connecticut, never now to miss an opportunity to put himself

in front of a camera now that he's sleeping with some hack PR person. This is him weighing in.
This is the constitutional crisis. It's the confrontation between the court saying that the president has to bring Abrego Garcia back home and Trump refusing to do it.
And why should this matter to you? Because if the president has the power to jail and prison, to deport anyone, even if they have a legal right to be here as a citizen or through protected status given by the courts, then none of us are safe. Today, it's this El Salvadorian immigrant, but tomorrow it could be you or me.
This matters.

This matters.

This is the one power that we cannot give the president of the United States, the ability to take any of us off the street and imprison us just because the president believes he has the power, a power that he does not have. OK, so I just want to say one thing to you in tossing this.
That man is so disrespectful because what he's really assuming and projecting there is that he thinks people are idiots. He's taking advantage of people who have to work all day to put food on the table and manage their children and their busy lives who do not have eight to ten hours a day to research the news and figure out, you know, where Chris Murphy is lying to them.
And the suggestion in any way, shape or form that an American has been grabbed, arrested and shipped off to El Salvador is a lie. And he's banking on them just not having that intimate connection with the details of the story like this.
Marilyn dad to know he's lying to them as he tries to scare them in a court of law. An objection would have been sustained.
The entire commentary would have been stricken and he would have been admonished by the judge not to actively mislead the jury. You're exactly right.
Of course, there is no slippery slope between a non-citizen who committed a felony and entering this country and a citizen of the United States. The only people trying to make a slippery slope between citizens and non-citizens are the Democrats because that has been their agenda for the last 40 years.
They are the ones who want there to be no legal difference. They want an open border.
They want an endless supply of slave labor to watch their children and clean their homes and do their landscaping and work in the fields and pick the crops, as Nancy Pelosi famously put it. They are the ones, this is their wishful thinking, that there would be a slippery slope between a citizen and a non-citizen.
Average Americans know that being an American citizen, indeed being allowed to live legally on United States soil is the greatest privilege on planet Earth, and that you can't just decide that there's going to be a slippery slope there. No, there is a legal distinction upon which every single one of our civil rights rests, that there is a difference between being an American and being a non-American.
Now, why do the Democrats insist so strongly that there should be a slippery slope there? Not just that there is, but that they want there to be one. Why are they insisting that in Donald Trump enforcing the law and doing what he promised the American people and getting rid of violent non-citizens, that this somehow threatens Americans? Why do they insist that in deporting a green card holder who lied on his green card and supports Hamas and supports ending America, that this could happen to an American citizen.
It's because, Megan, Mahmoud Khalil, just to keep it straight. That's a separate case.
The guy out of Colombia. Keep going.
Exactly. Their entire agenda right now is coast playing.
Their base are the top 10 percent, the top 20 percent, the people who show up at Coachella to hear Bernie Sanders speak, the people who show up to hear AOC speak. These are wealthy people.
They are in the top 10%, which controls over 60% of the wealth in this country. They don't have real problems.
And so what they do is they have to look for other people's problems to pretend that they have. We talked about this during the election.
This is why Democratic women, wealthy, middle-aged Democratic women made, you know, third trimester abortions their number one issue. It's because it allows them to cosplay as the oppressed.
They know at some level that they are unbelievably privileged and they know because they can see the polls that Donald Trump has made the case to working class Americans of all races, that he has their best interests at heart, that he stands for the dignity of the American working class. That's what the tariffs are about.
That's what immigration is about. That's what getting trans women out of women's sports is about.
It's about the dignity of the average American. And the Democrats, in realizing that they have lost touch with that great American middle, have to invent ways in which they are the ones who are on the side of the oppressed.
Hence the magical slippery slope that if Donald Trump deports an alleged wife beater or somebody who supports Hamas, people who are not American citizens and don't have the rights of American citizens, that he could be coming for you, you wealthy people at Coachella. You are a potential victim.
Your rights are being oppressed. You are the real victim here.
That's what they're trying to do here. And of course, it's going to fall flat.
It's going to work with the top 10 percent because that's really what they want to hear, that they are the true oppressed. But this is going to get the Democrats nowhere.
You know, there's a meme I keep thinking about, you know, this anime meme of the young man standing like this and there's a butterfly. You know, it's like he's the Democrats and they're looking at like, you know, these these ne'er-do-wells, you know, these illegals who came here illegally broke the law, you know, and they are standing for them.
And I just keep thinking this is them like being like, is this how we get back the working class? No, it's not how you get back the working class. No, 73 percent of men who voted for Trump, men who are people of color.
This is from Ryan Gerderski. He's great on the polls.
He found that 73% of non-white men who voted for Trump want to see radically less immigration. And it's because it comes at their expense.
Their American dream was put on hold so that the Democrats could walk around white knighting for illegal migrants. And they've had enough of it.
And that number, Megan, is growing and growing and growing. I mean, I care about the working class and I want them to have better job prospects.
But I also care about the safety of young women like Laken Riley, like this 37-year-old mom, Rachel Morin, who was killed on a jog,

mother of five by an illegal who was harboring there, who raped her and beat her to death. And Caroline Levitt was making this point perfectly the other day at the White House, I think it was yesterday, about how they're very, very concerned about Abrego Garcia getting his proper due process.

They don't say one word, not one word about the Laken Rileys or the Rachel Morans of the world.

Here she is.

The Democrat in media outrage over the deportation of Abrego Garcia, an MS-13 El Salvadorian,

illegal alien criminal who is hiding in Maryland, has been nothing short of despicable.

Based on the sensationalism of many of the people in this room, you would think we deported a candidate for father of the year. That's because unfortunately, many in this country care more about this quote unquote Maryland father, illegal alien MS-13 gang member than a Maryland mother and an American citizen who was brutally murdered at the hands of a different illegal alien.
Of course, I am referring to Rachel Morin. Where was the Maryland senator's trip on her behalf, showboating on her behalf? Where was Chris Murphy speaking out so that we all understood the dangers of Joe Biden's illegal immigration policy, that actual American women were being killed as they go for a jog to try to stay fit.
I don't remember them making a deal out of those. And is that because, what, bigotry of low expectations? They just expect these guys are, you know, they're animals.
They're going to kill. If.
If so, why would you why would you on an open border? Right. It's like none of it is congruous other than they see in a story, as you point out, and they see an opportunity to advance themselves.
Oh, I could not agree with you more. I mean, these people at this point, they would give a kidney to get a retweet from AOC, you know, like that.
This is they've decided this is the direction that the party is going in. I actually like her.
I think that she's very genuine and really believes what she has to say. If the Democrats cannot figure out that illegal immigration is a huge problem that came at the expense of people who used to be their voters and now are Trump's voters because he looked at them and said, you have a right to demand better.
They're never, ever, ever going to be competitive again. You know, they have a lot of like, you know, they seem to understand that they have a problem, but this is the one thing that they just will not, they can't quit illegal immigrants.
And I think, Megan, the reason for that is like, unlike Donald Trump, who very successfully sidelined the elites of his party over the last 10 years, and especially during the last campaign, all of the Democratic funding is now bound up with very privileged white progressives who really support the open border, both for economic and for social reasons, but also, you know, the Soros Foundation, the Ford Foundation, all of these NGOs that have a very, very open borders mentality. They don't believe borders are real.
They don't believe in nation states. They don't believe in national borders.
And of course, this is the most elite thing possible.

There are millions of Americans who the only thing they have in their life that gives them pride is their American identity.

They are proud to belong to this, the greatest nation on planet Earth.

And that is the thing that the elites cannot stand for them to have, that they want to rob them of. And of course, the way you rob them of that is you dilute it by having an open border and having a marketplace that welcomes in millions of people to compete with working class people in the marketplace.
It does dilute our rights. The idea that you could have somebody here who is, you know, claiming to have the same legal protections as a citizen is a way of saying the citizenship itself should not count for anything.
And I think all good people should say no to that. I have a point that I want to raise with you.
But before I get to it, I just want to point out if again, we haven't independently verified these court records, but Andy No found them. Fox News is reporting them now.
Um, at least two, one from 2021 from 2021 in which, uh, Jennifer Vasquez is accusing, um, a man who has the same name, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, and it shows his birthday is 1995, which is his birthday. I mean, maybe there are two couples that are, that unite Jennifer Vasquez and Kilmar Abrego Garcia with his same birth date.
I doubt it. We'll find out if we're wrong, we'll correct it.
Um, so that would have been a 2020 and a 2021 domestic violence incident bad enough to make her go in and seek a protective order against him, alleging serious domestic violence. He, his, when he was found, uh, alleged, allegedly engaging in some sort of activity that led them to believe he was arrestable and part of MS-13, it was 2019.
He was in there. He was found to be part of this gang.
The appellate court in the immigration system agreed, part of the gang, deportable. And then he pleaded for mercy saying, well, please just don't deport me to El Salvador.
They're going to kill me there. Oh, poor me.
And of course we said, okay, fine. You don't have to go.
So this would have been within months. The first incident would have been within months of us going soft on him, of our courts saying, give him a chance.
We don't want him to get hurt. We're not going to send him back there.
And then if, if this dovetails the way it looks like it does, according to these documents, he was wailing on his wife in 2020. And then again in 2021, and then he gets arrested and sent out by Trump and it's back to, Oh, poor guy.
Oh, it's just, it's infuriating. But I wanted to get to your bigger point because it's important about how these these these judges are trying to take the matter in hand, that the Democrats are trying to stop the Trump agenda of removing the millions that Joe Biden willingly, happily, purposefully allowed in.
On Monday, a federal judge halted the Trump administration's plan to revoke the legal status and work permits of more than half a million migrants from Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua, and Venezuela, who we flew here. We flew here under a Biden era, quote, parole program.
He flew them in saying, I'll give you legal protection and I will let you work in the United States for two years. And no sooner had he begun that program than they ran into problems.
Some data from the program showing evidence of fraud. One review found that at least 3,200 people applied to sponsor immigrants.
And it's really supposed to be like a direct

relationship, but they sponsored over 101,000 immigrants. So it's clearly these government

NGOs, or dare I say, the Catholic Church, saying, I'll be responsible for him. I'll be responsible

for him. But 3,000 people cannot monitor 101,000, as alleged here.
The Trump administration

looking at this program also alleges that it was very poor vetting. We have no idea who he allowed in, uh, almost 3 million of these applications were filed, excuse me, as of last August, including 80,000 from aliens living in countries other than those that I listed.
So they're not even supposed to be considered. This is all according to a House Judiciary Committee report.
And concerns of fraud were so bad that they even led Biden's Department of Homeland Security to suspend temporarily this program for several weeks last year. Now, a judge has said, you can't do it.
They have to stay.

You might be able to suspend their legal status here, Mr. Trump, if you give them an individual case by case review, which no one got on the way in.
But now we want, they just want to tie him up for the next four years with all of this procedural bullshit. They got flown in summarily and they can be flown out summarily.
There's a new sheriff in town. But no, no, says this judge.
I think they're wrong on the on the legal merits. John, you were saying yesterday you made a really good point, which is that this parole program is always at the request

of the president and can be revoked at any moment. You're totally right.
They just want to keep them in court, keep them from enacting the agenda that the president was put in office to enact by the voters of this country. You know, Megan, I keep thinking if this was 2016, Back then, the Democrats sort of mass media approach to opposing the Trump administration worked a lot better.
Remember the whole like family separation thing? You know, that was in The New York Times and then it was on CNN and MSNBC. And suddenly, you know, the Trump administration had to back off because there was this huge outcry.
And I think today we are just in a totally different moment because the voters, the electorate, the American people was able to see what happens when you have somebody like Joe Biden just basically decriminalize illegal border crossing, which is what he did, which is what he promised he was going to do during the campaign. And what an absolute mess it made.
And the most horrifying part about it is this to me. I mean, obviously, the crimes that are committed against American citizens, I agree with you, totally horrifying.
But let's remember why Biden did this. It's because American corporations were desperate for workers in the post-pandemic labor crunch, and they didn't want to pay American workers what they were asking for.
And so Biden partnered with the cartels to open the border and provide American corporations with slave labor to the tune of millions and millions and millions of illegal immigrants. And when that chaos threatened his reelection campaign, they said, you know what? We don't actually need the cartels anymore.
We're just going to legally start importing these people to these corporations so they can pay them slave wages and not have to pay Americans more money. I think Biden felt, well, this will bring down inflation.
Now, the problem with this is that, you know, we actually should want working class Americans to make a living wage.

I mean, that used to be the Democrats view. We have to control immigration because a tight labor market uses the free market in order to raise wages for working class people and give them dignity.
And that's why in the 70s, most Americans were middle class because people who worked in meatpacking plants and people who were manicurists and people who worked in construction were able to command a living wage. They were able to make a middle class wage working in working class jobs.
And now thanks to the Democrats who still have the chutzpah to cosplay as the side of labor, We shipped all these good manufacturing jobs overseas to China to build up their middle class. We imported millions and millions of low wage illegal immigrants to work in the jobs here, radically reducing the wages that working class people could ask for.
And it was Donald Trump, a Republican, who showed up and said, you do not have to live like this. If you work hard, you shouldn't be poor.
So what about the inflation argument, right? People will say, oh, well, if we pay working class people living wage, then all of these goods are going to become unaffordable. Well, notice that what Donald Trump has done is he took a bunch of very pro worker policies like tariffs and controlling the border to raise the wages of working class people.
And he has paired them with a host of very pro business things that are coming down the pike. We have radical deregulation.
We're going to have cheap energy because of drill, baby drill. We have tax cuts coming.
And he has promised anybody who reshores manufacturing that he will drop their corporate taxes to 15 percent. That combination of being pro-business on the one side and pro-worker on the other side, this is genius.
And this is why the Democrats can't stand him because they didn't think of this first. Yeah, exactly.
Like there's no tax on tips policy. They came to it too late and then tried to steal it as their own, but they haven't been smart enough to do that in the overall sense.
March 2025 numbers at the border, lowest crossings in U.S. history, thanks to Donald Trump.
We have had a 95% decrease from March of 2024. And when it comes to those we have apprehended and yeah, those that we've apprehended.
And by the way, in March of 2024, that was right around when Joe Biden actually did try to start making an effort at the Southern border because he realized his reelection chances were going to depend on it. In March of 2024, the numbers crossing the border were about 4,500 a day under Joe Biden.
Now it's less than 330 a day for the entire month. It was about 40,000 for the month under Trump is about 8,300.
It's unbelievable. It was stoppable all along just by him.
He just didn't have the will. Stand by.
More with Baja after this quick break. These days, it feels like nothing surprises us anymore, but not in a good way.
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This just in breaking news. Judge Bosberg, who thinks that he's the president of the United States, he's the chief district court judge for the district of Washington, D.C., has just found that there's probable cause.
He says, let me get the language exact. He said he would launch proceedings to determine whether to hold the Trump administration, its officials, in criminal contempt for defying his order not to remove Venezuelan migrants from America based on the Wartime Alien Enemies Act.
This is all based, he's wartime alien enemies act. This is all based

this he's drunk on his own power. This is all based on the fact that Trump decided to use the alien enemies act, which by the way, the Supreme court has already implicitly said, okay, that's good.
He can, I mean, we're not going to, we're not going to chastise him on that. And now there'll be further proceedings.
But he decided to use it. And the ACLU ran into court before Judge Boesberg because they knew they could get a sympathetic judge.
They did not go into Texas where the detainees were that they were allegedly representing and trying to fight for. That's where they should have gone.
That's what the U.S. Supreme Court ultimately held.
They went to D.C. because they knew they could get a judge.

They're all like Boesberg.

He's a dime a dozen. These leftist activist judges.
And they got a ruling from him saying, first of all, he said, no, no planes should take off. Orally, he said, no planes should take off.
What? Who are you? Fuck off, Judge Boesberg. This is Marco Rubio's call and President Trump's call on whether the foreign policy of the United States requires these people to be deported and whether the safety and security of the American people requires that they to be deported.
And the commander in chief ruled that they were part of an incursion or an invasion, and he had powers to order them out. Judge Bozberg said, no, I'm higher than you are on the totem pole.
No planes can take off. And that was not put in writing.
And there is a real question about whether any sort of temporary restraining order has to be put in writing for it to be valid. It wasn't put in writing until several hours later that day.
And at the time it was put in writing, two planes were already in the air and in international airspace, and they refused to turn them around. The third plane is really not relevant.
It did take off much later from the written order, but it didn't have anybody on it pursuant to the alien enemies act. So it's really less relevant, but he's getting ready to hold them in criminal contempt for not turning those planes around as he ordered.
And I presume not. And for allowing them to take off in the first place.
And, um, I don't even know. We talked about this with our lawyer panel the other day about you, but like, I don't know how you hold.
I don't know how you hold the president in criminal contempt. Like, what's he going to do? He's going to.
So are we in a world where like the Democrats want a Brigo Garcia free and Trump jailed? I think we all know the answer to that. You know what I keep thinking, Megan? I keep thinking like, you know, they tried

to get him on 91 counts and like, look at where we are now. You know, maybe just take a beat.

You know, this Khalil Mahmoud guy, they hold him up as some sort of, you know, oh, he's being

deported because of his views. This is a free speech issue.
And then it turns out if you had

just waited like, you know, 10 minutes, you would have found out that this guy actually lied on

Thank you. he's being deported because of his views.
This is a free speech issue. And then it turns out if you had just waited like, you know, 10 minutes, you would have found out that this guy actually lied on his visa application.
Right. This guy, right.
This Garcia fellow who they're holding up as this Maryland father. Well, maybe wait a minute and find out, you know, a little bit more about this person before you decide to nominate him for like, you know, the avatar of the Democratic Party.
And they just can't seem to understand that there is a real logic here. Donald Trump is not a careful speaker.
But everything he has done since he got into office has been unbelievably intentional. You know, they lost in 2020.
And they sat at and for four years they plotted. I feel like you can really see this with Jason Miller, right? And with with Stephen Miller.
This is a guy who sat at home for four years and plotted how he was going to restore America to its greatness through using legal avenues to enact the Trump agenda that is wildly popular with the American people. And that is what they did.
And that is what they are doing. And the Democrats are acting like it's 2016.
People are shooting from the hip and that you can get a story in The New York Times and shut down the agenda. And we are just in a totally different moment.
I think Trump was really changed by the assassination attempts on him. But also, Megan, I think he was changed by the level of support that he sees from the people.
You know, in 2016, he knew that what he wanted to do was popular, but he couldn't quite get that across. In 2025, he knows that what he wants to do is popular and he knows that the people know it.
And I think that that confidence is really coming across and it is forcing the Democrats into unforced error after unforced error after unforced error. I mean, you don't need a consultant to tell you don't white knight for the criminal illegal aliens.
And yet, Megan, they just can't seem to stop. All of them.
All of them. Mahmoud Khalil.
You know what? I made this point when I was arguing with somebody on the show about it, but I was like, they didn't go. They did not go and arrest all of the students at Columbia University who were taking part of those protests or all the students at Harvard who were taking part of those protests or any university.
They targeted a few who were taking part of those protests, or all the students at Harvard who were taking part of those protests, or any university. They targeted a few who were the leaders, the instigators, who took an extra role, and were here thanks to our benevolence.
We didn't try to kick out American citizens where people committed crimes. They got charged with whatever it was, larceny or vandalism.
But there's a reason this guy got targeted. He was here on our good graces.
He was a guest in our house and he behaved like an animal. And I don't care that he didn't actually commit violence on Columbia's campus.
He was the spokesperson for the group that held the hostages on campus. The entire campus was held hostage thanks to that group he represented.
And by the way, he worked for the Hamas arm of the UN. That's the lie you're referring to on his visa application.
Mysteriously, he forgot to disclose that when he asked us if he could come into our country. So goodbye.
We don't care. We don't miss you.
I wish you hadn't come to begin with. But yes, the left is now the party that makes statues of George Floyd and won't stand for little DJ Daniel at the State of the Union because or and won't mourn Rachel Morin or Lakin Riley and will send senators to prisons in El Salvador to go gin up empathy for an accused wife abuser and MS-13 gang member who's from El Salvador, by the way.
It's like like we sent him to middle of Siberia. Anyway, it's infuriating.
And the lawfare is their favorite tool. Now, it's coming back to haunt them, though, because they were the ones, they were the ones to unleash the dear friend letter during the Obama administration to start using universities to enact their leftist agenda.
And of course, the universities were only too happy to comply. That was where their heart was anyway.
And Barack Obama used the dear friend letter through his ridiculous secretary of education, Arne Duncan, to say, you eliminate due process for young men who are accused on college campuses, or you get the hose again. That's really what he said.
All your federal fundings going bye-bye if you don't yank their right to counsel, yank their right to cross-examine, yank their right to see the evidence against them. That was his big cause to try to completely eliminate due process rights for young men on college campuses.
It was so effed up. And by the way, there's virtually no rate of appeal.
You can try to file in a federal court after you've been found guilty as a sexual assaulter on a college campus. It almost never gets overturned.
And even when it does, the university won't help you. They don't have to let you back in.
We saw this in the case at Amherst where they completely dropped the ball on this one guy. They didn't care when it was all said and done.
It's very hard to get review when you've been fucked over, sorry, by your college campus in this way. All on the fault of Barack Obama.
Why am I bringing that up? Because the Trump administration has a duty. It has a duty under the various federal statutes that are out there, whether it's Title IX to protect women or Title VI to protect any minority group that's become the subject of harassment on college campuses

to step in and try to stop it. That's the federal law.
You're not allowed to do it.

You can hate Jews. Go for it.
If that's your thing, great. Good luck with that.
But you cannot

act on it. You cannot act in a discriminatory or harassing fashion.
That's the law. There's

morality and then there's legality. And the government, it's their job to enforce legality.

And these campuses crossed it. They crossed it with all those absurd protests where they were chanting Hamas slogans at Jews, harassing them, in some cases, physically berating them or hurting them.
And Trump is trying to bring justice now, saying this will never happen again. And here's how we're going to make sure it never happens again.
You're going to issue certain reforms on your campus or you're going to lose your federal dollars. And here are what the reforms are.
This is exactly what Obama did, his threats on Title IX. And by the way, what he did to many police stations across the country, you will hire more black and brown people or we will take over.
In fact, they did take over many police stations and say, we're running your police station now. We think you're too racist based on, you know, sometimes very scurrilous allegations in any event.
So now Trump says to Harvard, you will do all these things. And the list of things is actually quite good.
I have to say, it's like, I'll read you a couple. Um, we want to see merit-based hiring reform.
The university must adopt and implement merit-based hiring policies, cease all preferences based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. They should be able to say they'll do that because it's unlawful not to, but they won't.
Merit-based admissions reform must adopt and implement merit-based admissions and cease all preferences based on race, color, national origin, or proxies, et cetera. That too should be a no-brainer given the Supreme Court decision on affirmative action, but they don't want to do it.
International admissions reform. You have to reform the way you recruit and screen international students who are hostile to American values.

Why is that a fucking problem? I'm just like, why are you arguing on that? Then there's reform programs with egregious records of anti-Semitism or other bias. You have to commission an external party to audit these programs that have been particularly pernicious and fuel the most anti-Semitic harassment.
uh they don't want to do. And you have to discontinue DEI, which, of course, is at the root of a lot of this Jew hatred anyway.
They said no. Trump said say goodbye to $2.2 billion that you're getting now through various federal agencies.
And that may not be all. That may not be all.
We actually may look into your tax exempt status. If you want to play hardball, let's play hardball.

He said maybe Harvard should lose its tax-exempt status and be taxed as a political entity if it keeps pushing political, ideological, and terrorist-inspired sickness. Remember, tax-exempt status is totally contingent on acting in the public interest.
If that happens, then Harvard's endowment income tax rate could soar from 1.4% to the standard 21 percent corporate tax rate, potentially translating to a five hundred and twenty five million dollar annual reduction in their coffers. Who decides to weigh in on how inappropriate this is to use the federal government to threaten the universities? But Barack Obama bought you.
Yeah, it's truly amazing because he doesn't weigh in often. And then when he does weigh in, it's always on the side of the elites of the elites of the elites in the most unpopular way on the like to me, Trump has already won because he got Harvard to say, no way, Jose, we will not stop importing people who hate America and hate Jews.
It's like he already won, right? Like whatever happens, he has exposed them for what they are, which is an institution not of higher learning, but which confers status on people. And the higher status you are is based on how much you hate America and recently how much you hate the Jews, right? Like this is very clear at this point that these institutions are no longer places that give their students some sort of education.
What they do give them is an ideology. And of course it was Barack Obama who defunded vocational training in high schools, right? The idea was everyone's going to go to college.
And why would he do that? Why would he block millions and millions and millions of young men of finding their way into the middle class by working with their hands for a living? Well, of course, because the number one predictor for whether you'll be a Democrat is whether you have a college degree.

You know, so they were funneling people into college.

And so your ability to achieve the American dream, thanks to Barack Obama, became contingent on how much anti-American, anti-Semitic, post-structuralist, post-modernist crap you had been exposed to. And of course, you could see how this directly leads to these activist judges.
They've been exposed to it for 12 years, right? So they've been exposed to it for many, many, many more years than even just your average undergrad. And so it all comes full circle, right? This is, of course, totally, totally ridiculous.
Nobody is owed a Harvard degree. Harvard is not owed taxpayer dollars.
Certainly, if it cannot prove that it has the best interests of the United States of America at heart, it's not owed the tax dollars of hardworking Americans. But also the whole system that was built by Obama, the system in which you only get access to the American dream if you walk the gauntlet of these anti-American institutions, which are nothing more than status conferring operations in which elites confer status and a lot of wealth on each other.
That whole system is crumbling down. I don't want Harvard to reform.
I want us to reform. I want us to stop seeing a Harvard degree as something to be proud of.
I want us to stop worshipping at the altar of these institutions that hate us and hate working class people. And for the cost of $400,000 a year, teach young Americans who are going to be wealthy to hate the people who they're going to employ.
Let's all just stop. We can stop.

Like, however this drama plays out,

I think Harvard's going to cave very, very quickly.

I think the Trump administration's letter was an opening salvo.

I don't think they're going to insist

on every aspect of this list.

They want certain things very clearly more than others.

Investigate all teachers for plagiarism.

I like that one.

That's probably not going to go.

I was also reading that and I was like,

they'll never do that.

That's for sure. But we really have the power as Americans to say, just no.
Like, as Trump always says, you don't have to live like this. We don't have to live like that.
We don't have to give people respect just because they have a Harvard degree or a Princeton degree or a Columbia degree. We can say, actually, this proves to me you spent four years being exposed to the most despicable ideology.
It's already happening because corporate America already knows that a Harvard degree isn't what it used to be. And it means something else.
And I'm sorry, but this is what the left has done. If you happen to be a minority and you're at one of these top elite universities and you graduated from it, it's 10 times so for you.
They're going to look at you and think that Harvard accepted you because of your skin color. And whose fault is that? Harvard's.
It's Harvard's fault. And it's unfortunate that you went there in a time of exploding DEI where they've changed the merit-based system, but them's the breaks.
So great. You have yourself a Harvard degree, and now you have yourself a healthy amount of skepticism from all employers because they're wondering whether you really deserve to get in or whether you got in because you checked a box.
This is the system the left has created. So Barack Obama, just for the record, what he said was Harvard has set an example for other higher ed institutions by rejecting this deal, rejecting an unlawful and ham handed attempt to stifle academic freedom.
Sure, that's really, his history supports his commitment to pure academic freedom without any governmental ham-handed attempt to interfere. The nerve.
By the way, the best tweet, and really, this guy might be my favorite follow on Twitter, and that's saying a lot because I have a lot of people I love. He's been on the show, Stephen L.
Miller. This is not the Stephen Miller of Trump team.
This is a commentator who goes by Red Steez. He says, Obama, you know who needs us to defend them right now? Harvard.
Bernie. You know who I need to go speak to about income inequality? Coachella.
So right. OK, I have to keep going because there's so much news about you.
I if I don't get to spend enough time on Blue Origin, I'm going to be very sad and disappointed in myself. I have to mention quickly, quickly that on the legal front, Pam Bondi just fired the off the lawsuit against Maine.
It's happening. So the Maine governor, she had her little tête tête with Trump like I'm not doing it.
He's like, you will do it. And it was see in court.
Well, they're going to court. She caved almost instantly on the universities because she couldn't lose the money and she knew it, but she did not cave on K through 12.
And so now Pam Bondi just filed a lawsuit saying you will cave. You will cave because there's a whole thing we call a law.

It's in short referred to as Title IX, and you're violating it by letting boys play in girls' sports. And by the way, there was just, this is not in our country, but just not for nothing, the UK's Supreme Court, their highest court in the country, just ruled today unanimously that the definition of a woman in equality legislation refers to a biological woman and to biological sex.
And so-called trans women, that's not a thing, that's men posing as women, are not women. They can call themselves whatever the hell they want, but legally, they're not women.
And that's the problem that this main governor is going to have as this lawsuit goes forward. So good for you, Pam Bondi, totally behind you all the way.
Okay, but we've got to get to Blue Origin because it's over the top. It's over the top what's happened with these women.
We made fun of it on Monday because it was just so ridiculous the way some of the media were covering it, the way they were like self-congratulatory. They've gone next level.
Okay. Since then.
Okay. First of all, can we, can we pull, I want to hear the lead.
I don't know which sound bite it is you guys, but the, the montage of them about them. Let's watch.
Out there. It's dark.
It's like death. And I'm so proud of us.

I really am proud of me. Flowers for me, I believe, are like God's laughter and God's smile.

And I brought a daisy because I have so much love for my daughter, Daisy,

and I have so much love for Mother Earth.

It just says to me, if I can do this, I was telling these guys, I might even now get my ears pierced.

I've never gotten my ears pierced because that hurts.

I hope they can see the unity that we modeled and replicate that and understand that we weren't just taking up space.

We were making space for the future.

Oh, my God.

10 out of 10 review. Okay.
I got, I got one more. I got to add to you.
Gail King upset because there's been a lot of blowback and I'll play it in a minute, but like from Hollywood leftists and not just people like you and me, but like Hollywood leftists, these are the people who are supposed to love them, who are ripping these women to shreds. It's beautiful.
And Gayle King is upset and had a few things that she needed to explain to those of us who don't understand what a hero she is. Watch.
Please don't call it a ride. That is not a frigging ride.
Whenever a man goes up, you have never said to an astronaut, boy, what a ride. You know, we duplicated the same trajectory that Alan Shepard did back in the day, pretty much.
No one called that a ride. It was called a flight.
It was called a journey. Because a ride implies that it's something frivolous or something that's lighthearted.
There was nothing frivolous about what we did and the machine that we were on and what it took for the people to get that machine up and running, to get us up and get us back down safely. So, you know, I'm very disappointed and very saddened by it.
And I also say this, the what it's doing to inspire other women and young girls, please don't ignore that. I'm inspirational.
I've had so many women and young girls reach out to me. And men too, by the way.
Men too. That say, wow, I never thought I could do that.
But I see you doing it at this stage of my life. Who would have thunk it? Not me.
And how inspired they are. Okay, there's so much to go over.
First of all, Alan Shepard walked on the moon, Gail. You did not fucking walk on the moon, okay? You didn't do the same thing as Alan Shepard.
And by the way, when he did his first space flight, it was the first space flight. That's the reason it was exciting.
It wasn't for commercial gain. It wasn't to promote Amazon.
It wasn't with some woman with her tits hanging out who needed a little extra attention. Okay, so that's just first.

Secondly, there's nothing frivolous about what we did.

Let's just check in.

We don't have to take her word for it.

Let's see how it went on board the Blue Origin spacecraft.

SAC 22, here they are in space.

Got it?

One, two, three.

Take up space!

Katy Perry with her daisy?

I got you, Flynn.

Gotcha.

Stuffed animals.

Proud of you, Flynn.

The moon!

You guys, I have to tell you, look at the moon.

That's amazing.

Wow.

Look at the blue line.

Oh, my God.

Oh, my God.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

That's amazing.

I can't.

I'm so, I can't get over. There's so much to talk about.
Look at the moon. It's dark.
There was nothing frivolous. I am like Alan Shepard and I am inspirational.
I'm proud of me. Good for me.
That's the messaging coming back. right it's so so amazing.
Like they went to see space. We're supposed to see them, right? Like they admired the universe and what they were expecting was for us to admire the fact that they were rich enough and famous enough to have been granted this utterly, utterly vacuous experience from which they learned absolutely nothing.
And this is the Democratic Party, right? It's all acting. It's all celebrity.
It's all ostentatious wealth. I mean, this was exactly what Kamala Harris's entire campaign was like.
Look at us. We're very wealthy.
Don't we look great? Admire us. You know, it's so funny.
She said she's heard from women and girls who have said to her, I didn't realize this is something I could do. You know how I know that didn't happen, Megan? Because it's not something they could do because they're not friends with Jeff Bezos, right? Like the whole thing is a farce.
Their message for women was take up space, like, like us, like the reception they got was like the right corrective. You guys are taking up too much space already.
Like, what are you offering? Where is the service? Where is the sense that we owe something to the society that has made us so unbelievably wealthy. What are you giving back? What they are giving back is their celebrity, the right for us to admire them.
Like it is so despicable. It's not just women, although, of course, like women do this so much worse because we always expect to be admired, you know.
But, you know, when the men did this, right, I forget who the billionaire, was it Bezos? Was it Musk? I don't remember who it was that went to space. I think it was Bezos and William Shatner.
Right. He came back and he said, wow, you know, we're so small vis-a-vis the universe, like the most banal, like, like totally, like really you went to space.
That's what you came back with. And it's just like these people are so bored, Megan.
They have no problems.

They have no problems. They have nothing in their lives that they consider to be a value.
And what's amazing to me is that it seems like Hollywood knows what time it is, even if these five women didn't. Right.
Like you really did see people coming out and being like, what the heck is this? Let me show. Let me show some of that.
OK, yeah, the just I'm still stuck in the fact that Gail King actually used the word astronauts in reference to like we're just like like an actual astronaut. You are there on a vanity project of Jeff Bezos and his fiance.
You've done absolutely nothing to deserve this. You're sitting next to Katy Perry.
And if you don't want people to think it's frivolous, Gail, then don't have the fucking Kardashians craft side as you take off and Oprah. That might have something to do with our reaction to this as a non-serious event, a PR stunt.

OK, back to the blowback.

Olivia Munn, she's an actress.

She's got it.

And I think she speaks for a lot of us when she's trying to espouse why so many on the

left and the right had a visceral reaction to this.

Like, what are you guys going to do up in space? What are you doing up there? I mean, it's by the way, they're going for 11 minutes. They're going for 11 minutes.
They're going up. I think they're going to float around a little.
So you're on like magic mountain, like you're just going up space mountain, more appropriately space mountain. Think about, I know this is probably obnoxious, but like, um, like it's so go to space.
Yeah. You know? Yes.
And there's a lot of people who can't even afford eggs. I just don't.
I think it's a bit gluttonous. Over the top.
And I think, I just think there are, the cover of Elle magazine? I know. I mean, like, isn't that, I don't know.
Space exploration was to further our knowledge and to mankind. I mean, what are they going to do up there that has made it better for us down here? Absolutely nothing.
I'll give you one more model. Emily Ratajkowski, who did a little Instagram post after the fact.
how many resources went into putting these women into space for what, for what, what was the marketing there? And then to try to make it like, I'm disgusted. Literally I'm disgusted.
She's raised a good point. Where's Greta Turnberg? Where's it? Where's her protest on how many carbon emissions we had to suffer just so that Gail could be proud of herself.
Olivia Wild reposted an image of Katy Perry kissing the ground. Honestly, truly, she was acting like she got back from Apollo 13.

Kissing the ground.

And she captioned it, billion dollars bought some good memes, I guess.

Here was Amy Schumer doing her own version of making fun of these women.

Watch.

Guys, last second, they added me to space and I'm going to space. I'm bringing this thing.
It has no meaning to me, but it was in my bag and I was like on the subway and I got the text and they were like, do you want to go to space? So I'm going to space and thank you to everyone who got me here and I'll see you guys in space. Nailed it.
She's mocking them. Very heartily mocking them.
Kesha mocked them. I mean, like it's that's what gets them upset.
That's why Gail did that little. We're inspirational and we're astronauts.
I am Alan Shepard video. First of all, that's the funniest I've seen Amy Schumer in maybe 10 years, 15 years.
It was really, really funny. I think that this is kind of a turning point, Megan.
Like, I feel like the vibe is shifting. Like a year ago, you would not have seen the left like openly admitting like this is not cool anymore it's almost like these women in their space mission admitted a little bit too much you know they became they went from being like the apotheosis of what the leftist elites and Hollywood and entertainment represents to just like exposing it a little bit too much like if the the message had been like slightly better, nobody would have come out against it.
But now it's very interesting to see the cracks in the very elites that these women come from. They realize that they've lost the plot.
They realize that they've lost the country. Nobody's going to see their movies.
Nobody's watching their TV shows. There's no purchase

for that ostentatious, liberal, vacuous, empty culture anymore. And I think we're going to look

back on this moment as maybe the moment that we started to realize that we were in full-on

woke lash and people wanted to return to substance and to unifying messages and to actual entertainment, actual culture that has real meaning for people.

I love that. I agree.
And I also think there's the element of it's got it's got a little bit of a stolen valor feel to it where we revere our astronauts, our actual astronauts who actually do put themselves in harm's way in order to forge new frontiers. And we've seen astronauts, actual ones, die in the name of this service.
We've seen even civilians like Krista McAuliffe when, you know, people of my age were in middle school and we all watched that that flight take off, the space shuttle, and burn in the air.

It was horrifying.

So there have been civilians to go up to.

They wear actual spacesuits.

They go through real training, not two days of learning how to buckle your seatbelt, which is literally what they did.

That's what they're touting as their training.

Buckling the seatbelt, getting in and out of the vessel, and learning how to press the button so they could speak to mission control. That is not that doesn't make you an astronaut.
OK, sorry, Gail and everybody else on board. And I just feel like, how dare you? How dare you utter the name Alan Shepard? How dare you? You and he have absolutely nothing in common.
absolutely nothing. And so I like she and they actually seem to have expected a Neil Armstrong type welcome home.
And I'm really uplifted by the fact that left and right, because I think you and I have probably zero in common with Amy Schumer and certainly Olivia Wilde, other than our ability to see through this PR stunt farce. Absolutely.
I just want to make one more quick point, which is I forget his name, the astronaut who Elon Musk just rescued from space. There was a woman and a man.
The man, Megan, he went to church services every Sunday from space. I can't remember the last time I heard something so inspiring.
This man was in space and he did not miss a single Sunday service. And if he could do it, we can do it.
But he brought his spirituality and his faith up into space with him. Like it was so beautiful.
The idea that even there, when you're so close to the heavens and you have this perspective, what he was longing for, what his soul needed was to be tied to his faith community here on earth. And these women went up there in search of meaning and came down just as vacuous as they had left.
The meaning they came back with was, I am important and I am your hero. I am.
Damn it. You will look up to me.
You will call it a mission, not a flight. Congratulations, me.
And again, I mean, my guest made this point yesterday. It was a very good one, which is, I think it was, who was it who was making this, Walter or on Monday, about how they completely ignored all these same news stations who want us to celebrate these women, completely ignored Elon Musk's rescue of those two astronauts on board the International Space Station.
He rescued them. They'd been stuck up there for the better part of a year.
They didn't find that interesting at all. But this vapidity celebrated like the second coming.
So I love the backlash. I am here for it.
And I feel it, too. Batya, I love talking to you.
Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much, Megan.
I love you. God bless you and God bless your viewers.
And thank you for everything you do for this great nation and for the Jewish people. Oh, you're so sweet.
The pleasure is all mine. All right.
Coming up next, we're going to have the lawyer for the doctor, a doctor and a lawyer walked into a courtroom that the lawyer for the doctor who just sued NBC news for defamation and they settled it because the judge had said, you have to go to trial. What you said, NBC News, was totally false.
And they were supposed to start that trial on April 22nd. It was settled.
They say they're very happy with the settlement. What the hell happened? The lawyer's here next.
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Offer details apply. Last week, we told you about a confidential defamation settlement between NBCUniversal and a Georgia doctor.
This after MSNBC ran multiple reports in September 2020 with allegations that this doctor performed mass hysterectomies at an ICE detention facility. Well, we dug into what really happened.
It started with an advocacy group called Project South, and they released an open letter to the Department of Homeland Security criticizing conditions at the Irwin County Detention Center in Georgia, which at the time was run by ICE and had detained immigrants staying there. The letter was primarily about the lack of COVID precautions there, but it also included shocking allegations from a nurse named Dan Wooten, claiming, Don, I should say, not Dan, that's our friend, Don Wooten, claiming that a doctor was performing hysterectomies on nearly every patient that he saw, calling him, quote, a uterus collector.
Well, MSNBC took up the story the very next day with Nicole Wallace, Chris Hayes, and Rachel Maddow all covering the report on their shows. Here's Maddow quoting the shocking claims.
The nurse who contributed to this whistleblower complaint explains it like this, quote, everybody this doctor sees has a hysterectomy, just about everybody. He's even taken out the wrong ovary on one detained immigrant woman.
She was supposed to get her left ovary removed because it had a cyst on the left ovary. He took out the right one.
She was upset. She had to go back to take out the left and she wound up with a total hysterectomy.
She still wanted children. So she has to go back home now and tell her husband that she can't bear kids.
She said she was not all the way out under anesthesia and heard the doctor tell the nurse that he took out the

wrong ovary. The nurse says she and her fellow nurses, quote, questioned among ourselves, like,

goodness, he's taking everybody's stuff out. That's his specialty.
He's the uterus collector.

She says, quote, I know that's ugly. Is he collecting these things or something? Everybody

he sees, he's taking all their uteruses out or he's taking their tubes out. What in the world? Well, there's just one problem.
It's not true. Dr.
Mahendra Amin only performed two medically necessary hysterectomies on detainees at that ICE facility, and he was not happy with this report. The guy spent his whole life helping underprivileged communities, volunteering his time, helping people who cannot pay.
And he got viciously smeared originally by this nurse who worked at the facility. And then NBC News and MSNBC News ran with it.
And the good doctor filed a $30 million defamation lawsuit against NBC Universal in September, or back in September, NBC settled. They settled after discovery in this case showed that even internally at the news organization, they had significant doubts about whether this was true, even as they presented the allegations to their audience without reflecting those serious doubts.
We reached out to NBC Universal for comment. We have not heard back here now to explain more is Stacey Evans, Dr.
Amin's attorney. Stacey, thank you so much for being here.
I know. Thank you so much for having me and sharing the story.
Yes, you're I'm told a Democratic lawmaker in the state of Georgia and that many people would not expect you to be suing MSNBC, which is beloved by a lot of Democrats. So did you have any hesitancy in taking this case? I didn't.
I definitely thought in my mind this could hurt me politically. And in fact, I had some attacks.
You proclaim to be this progressive champion. How could you defend this man, this doctor? And I said, well, it's very easy because he didn't do these terrible things that the media is claiming that he did, that MSNBC is claiming that he did, that this alleged whistleblower is claiming that he did.
And for me, whether it's a Democratic-leaning media or Republican-leaning media, you've got to tell the truth. I mean, the media is a very important part of our systems of government, really.
And they need to get it right. And so it's my job, I feel like, as a defamation lawyer to hold anyone accountable who's not telling the truth, whether that's the network I watch or or another network.
Good for you. Not everybody sees the world like that.
So I applaud you and your objectivity. Just so the audience can understand how this got started, I mentioned this nurse who works there named Dawn Wooten.
Here she is talking to NBC's Jacob Soberoff and making these allegations against Dr. Amin.
This is from September 15th, 2020. You're quoted in the complaint as saying that's his specialty.
He's the uterus collector. Is that how people refer to this doctor? That's how the detainees refer to this physician.
They referred to him as I had a detainee to ask me, she said, well he doing collecting all of our uteruses and i just looked at her puzzle because i didn't have an answer later uh the the department of homeland security inspector general would conduct an investigation This is after the allegations aired. It was in January of 2022.
And they released a report finding based on its medical records review, the National Commission on Correctional Health Care Resources team determined women's health care provided by Dr. Amin to be appropriate.
So they're basically saying that, well, he's not mentioned by name, nothing untoward happened there, nothing that wasn't medically necessary. So what exactly did NBC and MSNBC do wrong? Well, they called Dr.
Amin a uterus collector. They said that Dr.
Amin performed mass hysterectomies, high number of hysterectomies, and that they were unnecessary and that they were unconsented to. None of those things are true.
And the court even found in her summary judgment order, Judge Wood of the Southern District of Georgia found in a 108-page order, very clearly there is no evidence of mass hysterectomies, no evidence of high numbers of hysterectomies, and no evidence that Dr. Amin is a uterus collector, and also relayed information to make clear that Don Wooten was not telling the truth and MSNBC was not telling the truth to repeat it when she said all these detainees called Dr.
Amin the uterus collector. I took deposition after deposition after deposition of women who had been formally detained at Irwin County Detention Center and others who had been there.
And no one heard him be called the uterus collector until after MSNBC's news reports, which the detainees obviously had access to watching television like any of us. But no one admitted to ever using that phrase, and no one even heard it until after the report.
So MSNBC took these allegations, which were salacious, and it was right in the middle of an election year. We were six weeks before the 2020 election, and they ran with it.
And they tried to tie Dr. Amin, an immigrant himself, to what they portrayed as terrible, atrocious things that were happening to immigrants during the Trump administration.
And I and others agree in the child separation policies. There were these administrators who were tracking menstrual cycles of women.
Rachel Maddow said that Dr. Me, my client, a man who's been practicing medicine for over 35 years, devoted himself to these underserved areas, took on these cases of the detainees because he knew no one else would do it.
For most of his career, he's been the only or one of only a few OBGYNs in a very wide radius in a rural part of South Georgia. So they said, this man, my client, Dr.
Amin, one of the most gentle people you'll ever meet, was the next chapter in this saga of immigration abuse that's happening in our country. Again, an immigrant himself tied him to that without not only not looking as deep as they needed to, but the surface level that they did look into told them that these allegations from this alleged whistleblower were not corroborated.
They had let me let me stop you there. Let me stop you there just to set the scene.
And I appreciate you mentioning the election because it's very interesting. I mean, we've seen this so many times where.
Mistakes, mistakes or intentional misstatements get made in service of a political narrative that somebody finds important. And I think obviously MSNBC was guilty of that here.
It was too good. It was too good not to report.
It would hurt Trump. It would hurt him on one of his key issues, immigration.
And look what they're doing. He's basically got a Joseph Mengele in there taking out uteruses for fun.
This is sick. These people are sick.
So I see it. I see exactly what you're saying here.
But that's one of the things I wanted

to get into because it wasn't just MSNBC. The Guardian, some other publications, mostly left wing, ran with these same allegations by this nurse, but you didn't sue them.
And there is a reason that you zeroed in on NBC and MSNBC. And I think it's, well, it's a couple fold.
You explain. Well, there were some earlier sort of lesser known print, maybe online publications that were talking about the story in general, but it was MSNBC, that first name, Dr.
Amin. And they were proud of that.
They said, we broke the story. We got his name and we told everyone.
They were very proud of that. And then they were the only broadcast media to run with the story.
We got his name and we told everyone. They were very proud of that.
And then they were the

only broadcast media to run with the story. And they did it again in the face of on the same day

that they were up reporting, ICE telling them, we've only got records of two hysterectomies

being done at this facility at all, whether by Dr. Amin.
At the time, they didn't know if there

were other doctors that may be treating women at that facility. That's what MSNBC did, which was very reckless.
They had the biggest microphone, the biggest camera, and they blasted his name and blasted his picture across on things that were false and that from their own investigation, they had feedback telling them it wasn't there, their own internal people saying, we don't have it. And I know we may talk about that more if you want me to go into some of the things that they knew.
Well, let's, so I definitely want to do that. I'm running out of time on my SiriusXM live show, and we're going to continue this over on pod and YouTube.
So I'll start something a little, I'll keep us on something less deep because that's a deep. But, yeah, so he had multiple news organizations, but MSNBC and NBC was the worst and the ones with the biggest microphone reporting this about them.
Can I ask you before what in the time we have? Do we know why this nurse made these allegations? Because I saw some reference to she had an axe to grind. Well, she had she definitely had some issues employment wise with the facility.
Who's right or wrong in that? I don't know, but she was very upset about her status as an employee and being her hours being cut down or something like that. And she was mainly concerned about COVID protections at the facility.
This was September, 2020. We were in the height of COVID.
She was complaining that the safety protocols weren't being followed. And she had some of her own health issues that she was worried about and being forced to work in these conditions.
That's what she was trying to share. You know, this 26-page letter, I believe it was, total, only one little paragraph about hysterectomies.
But her advocates through this advocacy organization have been trying to get attention on COVID for a while and no one was biting. And I think they needed something sensational.
And why she chose to say that he did this, I'll never know. So let's talk now about what you discovered about MSNBC and NBC in particular, because this was really, you know, I don't know whether you would have won the defamation claim against them, even though we now know what they reported was untrue, but they did try to cross some T's and dot some I.
So when I was reading up on the case, I was like, how did they win this? And then I got to the page that explains how you won it. But just to set it up, they did try to do some things.
They reached out right to the doctor for comment and they included, I think, his denial in the ultimate report that it wasn't true. But that, as it turns out, wasn't sufficient because why? Well, they did include his denial, which was general.
And one of the things to keep in mind here that was very frustrating for Dr. Amin is, I mean, he's a doctor.
He is bound by the laws of HIPAA. He can't go digging through his medical records and throw them up on the screen and say, see here, this is why I did the hysterectomy.
These are the hysterectomies I did. He cannot talk about specific patients.
He cannot talk about specific things that happen with them. And so that general denial was all he could do.
But what was true and what we just got worse as we were peeling back the layers during discovery is this whole thing started with Julia Ainsley and Jacob Soroff were writing, working together on an article that was going to be for NBC News online. And they were calling immigration lawyers in Georgia, obviously speaking to Don Wooten.
And what they found in the course of doing that is that the immigration lawyers were telling them, you know, when this story broke, we started calling our colleagues. One of the immigration lawyers that they talked to was a leader in this 15,000 plus member association of immigration lawyers all across the country.
And she had access to all the ones there in the southeast and Georgia in particular. they were not seeing high numbers of hysterectomies.
And they told the reporters at MSNBC that's

unclear whether it was Jacob that they told or Julia, but they told one of them,

we are not seeing it. We are calling around.
We are asking people to report to us and we are not seeing it. Going to air, they really only had hard evidence of one hysterectomy.
And they had that from an immigration lawyer who told them, and she had cancer. That's what they had.
Now, they said they had more than that, but they never did. The most they ever had was two.
That's what ICE was saying is that there were two reported out from ICE and that they were approved through their internal procedures to be necessary. And then you had Standards, who was looking at that article.
Standards and practices. We've talked about them with my It's at NBC.
It's pretty rigorous where you go through this team of lawyers and sort of professional journalists who make sure or try that you don't defame people in your reporting. And especially when you have a report like this, that's incendiary.
I mean, you're setting this guy on fire with these allegations. It would be subjected to higher scrutiny.
So keep going. Keep going.
Yeah, absolutely. And I, and I And I personally felt sorry for Christopher Scholl was the deputy head of standards at the time, and he was clearly pushing back.
And he was saying, we have this one source. She has no direct knowledge because she she told even Jacob Soboroff, I didn't go with the women during their medical treatments.
And Dr. Amin never set foot onto the campus of Irwin County Detention Center.
The women were brought to his private medical office. Don Wooten said, the alleged whistleblower, I didn't go there.
I don't know what happened. So she has no firsthand knowledge.
And the deputy head of standards is pointing this out, guys. Hey, we have one source with no direct knowledge.
This is sensational. We've got these folks saying maybe we found one.
You've got ISAN, there's two. We don't have it.

And there's evidence that we developed that standards never actually approved that online news report, which ended up being the basis for all the on-air.

Now, they dispute and say, oh, yeah, we did.

We did.

We did approve. But there's some emails later where the deputy head of standards is saying these articles shouldn't go out without standards seeing a final version, and they should not be considered approved based on answers to questions, which is all there was, back and forth, all these emails, questions, answers, questions, answers, but then more questions.
And then all of a sudden the news article is up and Julia Ainsley's on deadline White House. And then from there, you know, it goes to Chris Hayes.
It goes to Rachel Maddow. Yep.
Was the original article on NBC.com or MSNBC.com? NBCnews.com. Yeah, it was an NBC news story.
Wow. And those warnings from standards and practices were issued prior to them posting that article and then doing all these segments on MSNBC.
Yep. Prior to posting the article online and prior to any on air, including the Deadline White House show.
And then you also had you had Chris Hayes behind the scenes internally with standards saying, you know, this whole thing went viral because it sort of brings up all these Third Reich, Jim Crow, Mississippi hospitalization experiments. And that's not the case here.
That's what he said internally. That's why it went viral.
It's so sensational. It brings up all these bad historical implications.
But that's not true here. He acknowledges that internally.
That same night, he goes on his show and he says, this story went viral because of the historical ramifications of any kind of coerced sterilization of an immigrant population. So the exact same thing that he said, this is not internally.
He told the viewers, that's why this is such a big story, because this is what it makes us think of. It was very, very reckless and very disappointing to me to see that, see it happen this way.
Incredibly two-faced. Here he is having that same nurse on his show, again, after all these warnings from standards and others behind the scenes.
It's not 37. You have detained women.
I had several detained women on numerous occasions that would come to me and say, Ms. Wooten, I had hysterectomy.
Why? I had no answers as to why they had those procedures. And one lady walked up to me here this last time around between October of 19 until July the 2nd.
And she said, what is he? Is he the uterus collector? Does he collect uteruses? And I asked her, what does she mean? And she says, everybody that I talk to has had a hysterectomy. and you just don't know what to say.
I mean, I don't, I don't have a answer for why that they would come to me and they would say, is it a uterus collector? Now, in that interview, did Chris Hayes express strong skepticism? Like this is hearsay. You can't produce the women.
How do you know it's six? Like, was there anything to mitigate the damage in those allegations? No, and that was the bigger problem. It would have been one thing to say, OK, here's what Don Wooten is saying.
But we haven't been able to verify from anyone who was actually in the room. We haven't looked at medical records.

We're being skeptical here, which internally they were saying, standards was saying to Chris Hayes specifically, we need to be skeptical. And in fact, they were just validating.
I don't remember if it was Chris Hayes or other on-air talent or his producers that were calling Dawn Wooten their hero. And our hero is here to share the truth with us, just really putting her up on a pedestal and then calling Dr.
Amin a so-called medical professor, a professional, so-called medical professional. That's how things were going behind the scenes.
So they're, they're definitely saying one thing behind the scenes, and then they're saying another thing on air. And then it, you know, it goes up.
So you've got, you've got Nicole Wallace at Deadline White House. Then you've got Chris Hayes all in.
And then after that, you've got Rachel Maddow, which really took it to the next level. And we alluded to it earlier when she made this really an election issue and said, this is the Trump administration's mistreatment of immigrants.
And Dr. Amin is part of that and going through the child separation policy and going through tracking of immigrant women's menstrual cycles when they're in detention.
And now Dr. Amin, the next chapter.
And that was such a terrible, outlandish thing to say, but even more so because earlier that day when she was internal records during discovery revealed, she had been having her production meeting with her team. And she starts out saying, if it's true, we should go with it.
But there's there's some reason to be doubtful here. I think there's a lot of jumping to conclusions.
And then according to the document, eight minutes later, she is saying this is going to be the A block and this is going to be the chapter of this immigration situation with no evidence that we ever saw that any new information came in. And that to me is just so egregious.
And she's got such a platform and so many people look up to her as a smart and hardworking and thorough journalist. And for her to be so flippant about Dr.
Amin and what he did here just was really too much. Did she explain in the deposition why the change of heart in eight minutes? No, no, there was not that.
And in fact, for her and some of the other folks that we depose on air talent, but also producers, what struck me was how flippant folks were about, that was a long time ago. I do a lot of stories.
I don't remember that one just didn't stick out for me. And I thought how callous and, um, yeah, maybe it was a, maybe it was a flashpoint in time for you.
Maybe it was part of some agenda for you, but this was Dr. Amin's life.
This is what he lives with every day. Maybe you can move on from it in a second and put it out of your mind and not worry about how reckless you were.
But he had to live with this. He had to live with the death threats, the bomb threats, the constant calls to his office, the following of him, the name calling, some of the most vile things to be called.
His own staff, he had several Hispanic women working for him. He lost some employees over this.
A lot of the women stayed, and they took also flack in their own communities and with their family and friends because they were working for him. But they knew, I mean, they knew this man.
They knew that this wasn't true. They knew that how these women were treated, which was well when they were in Dr.
Amin's office. And thank goodness they stood by him.
But it was a terrible story. He wasn't able to move on.
Can you tell the story, Stacey, of what happened with his son, who was off to the Cleveland Clinic as a doctor in his own right? Absolutely. Dr.
Amin's son, his middle name is Mahindra, the same as Dr. Amin's first name, Paraj Mahindra Amin, Dr.
Amin himself. And when all of the news hit and Dr.
Amin was very scared about what was going to happen to him and others, he immediately thought of his son and he called his son. He said, you might get calls because your name is so close to mine.
And if you get calls, just tell them you don't know me. Just tell them that you don't know me, that it's just a coincidence that you have the same name.
Because he was so concerned that his son, who had just gotten his dream job, was going to be affected negatively about this, so much so that he was just like, pretend like you don't know me. And that just breaks my heart.
I mean, Dr. Amin is a father of four, caring husband, doctor, father.
And to know that he had to say that to his son, it's heartbreaking. Especially in light of what you just said, which is they had doubts.
They reversed them. It seems clear they did that because they thought it was a story that was going to work for Team Blue and for their own ratings, notwithstanding their knowledge that there were serious holes in the story.
And then we're so callous and disgusting. Like, I don't know.
I, I ruin a lot of people's lives. I'm not sure.
That's really kind of how it sounds like I've ruined a lot of people since Dr. Ramin.
Can't, can't keep up with them all. Um, look, I have empathy for news organizations because we're all in a position of trying to report on day's news.
And sometimes you get duped. Sometimes you have dishonest brokers.
The thing that makes this story different. And that really makes a villain out of the actors you've mentioned is that they knew or had reason to know this one was false.
It would have been a totally different story. If they had her word, they couldn't get in touch with Dr.
Amin, they didn't get a denial, and they reported it straight as, look, she's filed this whistleblower complaint, this is what she's alleged, we're going to continue to try to reach out to him and get comment, whatever. But they didn't.
They actually did go beyond that. And when they got there, they learned that the story had tons of holes in it.

And then even then, you could potentially avoid liability if you went on the air and said, here are the allegations, and here are all the holes in it, right? Like, that, too, could potentially spare you. But just going with these are the allegations, oh, and by the way, he gave us a denial.
And without reporting any of the serious problems you've discovered behind the scenes, that's what got you to defamation. Because for some reason, they decided to treat him as a public figure, even though it wasn't.
But whatever, it's not important. So you had a higher burden in bringing a defamation claim against MSNBC and NBC.
And you had to prove actual malice on their part, that they knew what they were saying was false or behaved in reckless disregard of its truth or falsity. And I think that latter point is that's where all these messages came in.
You submitted in the case, um, text messages between Julia Ainsley, who you mentioned in Jacob's Jacob Soboroff, she texts to him saying, but only two hysterectomies, or do you think they only referred those? And he also did others. She's trying to say, maybe they referred others and we don't have a record of them.
And Soborov answers, I think it's possible or likely lots of lawyers saying it. Then you've got this one source, an immigration lawyer named Sarah Owings, who told Soborov that she and her colleagues were not finding evidence of a large number of hysterectomies.
The Rachel Maddow meeting that you just outlined, that guy you mentioned from Standards and Practices, Chris Scholl, you say standards weighed in on this prior to the airing of the reports. But this is from a follow-up segment that Chris Hayes was going to do two days after the original report, where standards, this guy Chris Scholl is jumping up and down, saying that you don't have it.
Like, stop doing this. The quotes are Scholl saying, we don't know if the doctor did anything wrong here.
In fact, the guy has a pretty clean record. Scholl doubted the credibility of that nurse Wooten in the same call.
Quote, and the whistleblower has no direct knowledge of this stuff. She kind of has a beef, right? She's got a whole separate agenda here.
Scholl admitted in the deposition, the network did not know the truth. And as to televising the accusations, he said, we would have to approach this with a great deal of transparency with viewers and say, look, we don't know the truth.
That's my understanding too, Stacey, that like, when you've got somebody making, you know, whistleblower allegations like that, and you've got a strong denial on the other side, you investigate it and you find a bunch of reasons to doubt the allegations. It's a judgment call as to whether you tank the story entirely.
But in some instances, you might put it on the air anyway. Like if it's big enough and it's like serious enough, you might put it on the air anyway.
but you would have to outline all the doubts that had been found in your reporting about it

so that the viewers knew to keep a very healthy dose of skepticism on the allegations. I mean, you practice in this area.
Am I right? Yeah, absolutely. And that's really what the guy from standards was saying, is that if we're going to do this, we've got to we've got to caveat it with this and this and this.
And then it's worth saying, why are we even doing the story? And he acknowledges during one of those internal calls, too, with Chris Hayes and his producers, hey, we can get to the bottom of this and we can find out. But by the time we find out, we're not going to want to do the story anymore.
It's going to be too late. I mean, really just sort of acknowledging how they were rushing here.
And I agree with you. Before Trump gets reelected.
Yeah. I mean, the media has an important job job and I know it's got to be hard.
And I've had cases that have come to me and I've started looking at them and I'm like, oh, this is a great case. This is a great case.
But when you find out facts that tell you it's not, when you're in the media and you have, you think you have this great story, but then you find out facts that tell you, that show to you that it's not, you have to stop. And I think you said it, it was just too good.
They had gotten, they really wanted this. I think Julia Ainsley and Jacob Soberoff, they had done this book on, or Soberoff had done a book on the child separation policies.
They had won some awards for reporting in that. This was their next immigration story.
They wanted it so much that even though their own sources, their own immigration lawyers in Georgia were saying, we are not seeing it, even though ICE was saying two hysterectomies, even though this was not a firsthand account, they just couldn't stop themselves from doing it. And then those text messages that you showed, some of those go into the night after the first night of reporting.
And you have them even saying, gosh, I've got to know if it's true. I can't move on.
I wonder if it's true. Do we think that the attorneys that did talk to us and told us that they found one, do we think they conspired? I've heard mixed things about Don Wooten, the alleged whistleblower.
They are questioning it, and they didn't stop. It's a hard job.
But when you learn better, when you know better, you do better. And they just didn't do that here.
Um, if it's okay, I wanted to real quickly, you mentioned how we had to meet that, um, actual malice standard. And we did that is so hard.
It is so hard to get on actual malice. Um, so I have to pat ourselves on the back for that, for our team, but we did, but you would have expected that this judge could have thrown your case out at summary judgment.
And that's really what I think led to the settlement. Right.
He the judge did not throw out the case at summary judgment. In fact, you got summary judgment on the critical facts of your case, which is it is not true that he is a uterus collector.
Right. Right.
We got we got it's so rare for a plaintiff to get summary judgment. We got summary judgment on several of the statements being false as a matter of law.
And she said no evidence of mass hysterectomies, no evidence of high numbers of hysterectomies. And obviously he's not a uterus collector.
But we had to prove actual malice here. And we were allowed to go to the jury on that.
If the case I continued, we'd be in trial right now or next week. But we had to prove actual malice here, even though Dr.
Amin is not a public figure, because Georgia has a very strict anti-SLAPP statute. Strategic lawsuit against public participation is what SLAPP stands for, for the viewers and listeners.
And so when you have statements on air or in publications about issues of public concern, which this was deemed to be that, you have to reach that actual malice standard regardless of public figure status. And so that's why we had to do that.
There's been some we could get nerdy on the law. There's been a little bit of changes since since that happened.
And I have some disagreement about how that was applied here. But that's why it wasn't because he was a public figure, but because in this case, the court had deemed this an issue of public concern.
And so we had to meet that higher standard, which is very, very hard. And I'm really proud of our team.
Well, NBC saw it coming because once they lost at summary judgment and you were barreling toward trial, I think they understood exactly how this is going to go over in front of a jury and you settled. And I've, I've heard you say you're very happy with the settlement.
Can you add any color to that? Well, the settlement terms themselves are confidential, so I really can't. But I can say that Dr.
Amin is very happy to be able to move on from this. I mean, we filed this case in the fall of 2021.
So this has been going on for a very long time for him. And so he's very glad to be able to move on from it.
And very glad that you and some others have been interested in sharing his story because it's, um, it's been so hurtful for him. And like I said, his staff and his family.
And so to be able to, to have the truth come out, to be able to get that, um, that accountability, um, for the truth, uh, just means so much to him. And I appreciate you letting us tell that story.
Of course he's still practicing now, right? He is. He is still practicing.
He's good. He's he is.
I describe him. He is a doctor.
He is a doctor. He is a doctor.
He is a doctor. Other than when I told him he needed to wear a business casual outfit, at least for his deposition.
I've never seen the man not in scrubs. We have a med a mediation or whatever we have.
He's coming in scrubs because he's, he'll, he'll take a break and he'll go, he'll get a call. He'll have to go deliver a baby.
He just wants to know when can I get back to seeing patients? Um, he loves it. He's really good at it.
The community, um, fortunately still loves him down there. Um, he, he had some trouble for a while, but everybody, um, luckily it it seems like everyone's come back around and he'll he'll never know all the naysayers that are out there.
But he's very important to the community. He loves them and they love him.
And yeah, all he wants to do is practice medicine. There never was a lawsuit against the nurse, right? There actually is a pending lawsuit against her.
We have a state court case against Sinclair Broadcasting and Don Wooten jointly.

That's pending right now in Tift County Superior Court. So that that one is yet to be resolved.
Okay. Yeah.
I wondered about that because I saw she spoke out to The Guardian or at least The Guardian offered an article about her in 2022. And she's blaming a very low dejected mental state on her time as a whistleblower saying, post whistleblowing, I am on antidepressants.
At one time I was suicidal, couldn't pay the bills, still can't pay the bills. My whole nursing career just plummeted.
I'm back on food stamps. I'm back on welfare.
I'm back on Medicaid. I'm back trying to figure out how I'm going to make ends meet, et cetera.
So what is she defending the lawsuit? Does she have counsel? She is defending the lawsuit. She does have counsel.
It's in a, we've got a procedural issue that we've got to work through before we get to discovery in that case.

And so a lot is still sort of paused.

But I do think it's worthy of note that the Government Accountability Project, which were her lawyers throughout the media frenzy, and it was a representative of the Government Accountability Project that was on air with her, Chris Hayes. the Government Accountability Project, if you go to their website and you scroll down to the bottom

of their homepage, you will see a retraction by them basically retracting anything bad they've ever said about Dr. Amin and his medical practices, accusing him of mass hysterectomies, everything like that.
I don't see anything like that from Don Wooten. We'll see if we ever get there.
But at least the lawyers that were with her at this crucial time back in the fall of 2020, they have retracted it all. Wow.
You don't get that every day in practicing defamation law. Thank you so much for coming on and telling his story and all the best to both you and the good doctor.
Thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
Wow. What a story.
Unbelievable. All right.
Speaking of good doctors, we're going down to interview one exclusively. Dr.
Marty McCary, the new head of the FDA, praise Jesus, will be on this show tomorrow. You guys have seen him on this show as Johns Hopkins doctor who pushed back against some of the COVID nonsense.
He came on to talk about his book, which is very Maha friendly. And now I'm dying to talk to him about what he has found in the first couple of weeks kicking the tires over at the FDA.
This will be great. He's an honest broker and there aren't a lot of them in, you know, these medical policy setting positions, at least not pre-Trump.
So what, what did he find? I can't wait. It's tomorrow.
See you then.

Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.