Weinstein's New Trial, New Lively Questions, and Meghan Markle's Grift, with Tim Dillon, Arthur Aidala, and Mark Eiglarsh | Ep. 1047

Speaker 1 If you love crispy bacon, if you love spicy pepperoni, if you love saucy ribs, then you'll love the flavor in every bite of pork. Taste what pork can do.

Speaker 1 This message was brought to you by America's Pig Farmers.

Speaker 1 dining like everything from sea to shining sea.

Speaker 4 Find you with fun again today. Carnival is calling.

Speaker 2 Save up to 40% off your cruise vacation. Offer plastic cruise fair only.
Restricted supplies. Visit Carnival.com for details.
Ships, registry, the Bahamas in Panama.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Speaker 1 Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show and happy Friday.

Speaker 1 Later, we've got Tim Dylan here with me in studio I cannot wait to see him you know this guy he's brilliant he is so funny and clever he came on I looked it up it was like episode 50 I think it was episode 50 right in the between 50 and 60 of the show This is when we were in the kids' playroom, only audio.

Speaker 1 We loved him back then. He was so funny.
I remember just crying. I was laughing so hard.
And then we had him again a couple of years later. And now he's back.

Speaker 1 And I can't wait to talk to him in person. I've never met him in person.
Anyway, it's going to be great. So prepare to have fun in our second hour.

Speaker 1 But we begin with a different kind of fun, a fun that everybody loves, and that's Kelly's Court. And there's a ton to get to.

Speaker 1 We've got some interesting and bizarre debates popping up about a lot of stories in the news, including that terrible stabbing of the high school football player down in Texas.

Speaker 1 Plus, we've got big updates with Diddy, Harvey Weinstein, Brian Kohlberger, and Blake Lively. And here to discuss it all are the O.G.
Kelly's Court panelists back when it was Kendall's Court.

Speaker 1 Arthur Idala, trial attorney and managing partner at Idala, Bertuna, and Kaymans PC, and host of the Arthur Idala Power Hour.

Speaker 1 And Mark Eiglarsch, criminal defense attorney at Iglarsch Law, which you can find at speaktomark.com. Speaktomark.com.

Speaker 1 What are you doing this Easter to celebrate with your family?

Speaker 1 Angel Studios, who gave us the box office hit Sound of Freedom, has an unforgettable movie coming out this Easter called The King of Kings, an animated story of the life of Jesus, featuring an all-star cast including Oscar Isaac, Pierce Brosnan, Uma Thurman, Forrest Whitaker, and more.

Speaker 1 Using stunning animation with vivid theatrical scenes you've never seen in a movie like this, King of Kings brings the story of Jesus to the big screen for a whole new generation.

Speaker 1 And I have a special offer. Become a premium member in the Angel Studios Guild, a membership that puts you in the driver's seat to to help Angel choose which movies it greenlights.

Speaker 1 And you will get two kind of two free tickets to see King of Kings and every single theatrical release from Angel Studios as well. How about that?

Speaker 1 Get two free tickets to see King of Kings and join the Angel Guild as a premium member at angel.com slash Megan.

Speaker 1 Take your kids to a truly wonderful movie this Easter season and be a part of making family entertainment great again. Angel.com slash Megan.

Speaker 1 Guys, welcome back.

Speaker 3 I love speaking to Mark.

Speaker 5 I love speaking to Mark. It's like my favorite thing to do, Megan Kelly.

Speaker 3 Same. Same with me and Mark.
I love talking to him. Yeah, sure.
Why not?

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 so let's start. There's a lot of places we can start.
Why? Well, why don't we just kick it off with this since our pal Arthur over here

Speaker 1 is going back to court for Harvey Weinstein, who thanks to Arthur, we talked about this, you know, when he did it, has a new trial in New York on these criminal allegations against him that he's a sexual pervert.

Speaker 1 And Arthur represented him in the trial, but he got convicted.

Speaker 1 But then Arthur got the conviction thrown out because they let everybody and her mother take the stand, even people who weren't plaintiffs or victims alleged in the case.

Speaker 1 And the Court of Appeals of New York State said, you can't do that. That wasn't fair to Mr.
Weinstein. So now he's back in court and the jury selection begins on Tuesday.

Speaker 5 Yeah, jury selection begins on Tuesday. And, Megan, that's honestly, that's the biggest hurdle here.

Speaker 5 It's, you know, 90 of the cases 99 of the cases mark and i are involved with you know you walk into a courtroom and jurors don't know who the defendant is they don't know what the charges are you know you have a clean slate so at least you have a shot at the jury uh reaching a verdict based on the evidence they hear in court.

Speaker 5 Here, the huge hurdle we have is, God forbid, they base the evidence on what they see on TMZ or People Magazine or something along those lines.

Speaker 5 So the jury selection part is going to be tedious because we're going to ask, okay, can we have a raise of hands?

Speaker 5 Who knows who this is? Okay, fine.

Speaker 5 And then when you say, raise your hands if you know about this case, you then need to call them in the back individually because you don't want them to blurt out, oh, yeah, I know Harvey's a rapist and he's a bad guy and he killed his, this, he killed his cat.

Speaker 5 And so one at a time, you have to ask them what they know and whether they can get over their own personal knowledge, what's in the hard drive of their brain, to then just base their verdict on the facts that they're going to hear in this trial.

Speaker 5 Not a trial in California, not a trial in New York five years ago, not some documentary on Netflix. So jury selection here, probably more than any case I've ever been involved with is

Speaker 5 probably the most important part of the whole case.

Speaker 6 And Megan, let me tell you something about Arthur and this case.

Speaker 6 He won't tell you this, but it is so much more challenging the second time around because now you've got the trial transcripts, thousands and thousands of extra pages that you didn't have in the first trial.

Speaker 6 And you must go through every word line by line to use for your advantage. So Arthur is being very generous with this time right now, because if I was me, I'd be knee deep in preparation.
I know.

Speaker 1 I'm kind of amazed he's here.

Speaker 5 Yeah, Megan, talking to you as a friend, the hardest part right now, honestly, is my kids. Like I have a three-year-old and an eight-year-old, and I barely, I barely seen them.

Speaker 5 And like, it's my, after it's like opening day of baseball on Saturday. So I'll be there for two hours.
And then I come back to the office and his face just drops.

Speaker 5 He's like, daddy, you got to go to work again, but you have someone's life in their hands. And if Harvey gets convicted, he's going to die in prison.
Period. Amen.
End of story.

Speaker 5 And that's an enormous amount of pressure. It's going to be a five, six week thing.
And I will tell you this. I'll give you guys a little preview.
I am seriously,

Speaker 5 Humphrey, seriously contemplating putting him on the stand because it's basically, it's a, he said, she said. There is no other evidence.

Speaker 5 there's no medical evidence there's no video there's it's just their word and i think in today's day and age i think a jury wants to say look if he if you didn't do it guy you come up here and tell us you didn't do it so and mark will tell you it's the most excruciating decision the event has to make but worse

Speaker 5 We're probably going to Rikers Island this weekend to start prepping him just so that no, we're ready to go if he needs to take the stand.

Speaker 6 I hope it doesn't come down to it because that's the the one time you cannot control that guy and you're not going to find it's going to be difficult to find a unanimous jury that actually likes him and i say that generically it's hard for all the jurors to like but i don't but like like can't be the goal when it's harvey but isn't the goal arthur correct me if i'm wrong isn't the goal

Speaker 1 you're not going to love this guy uh i i concede that up front this is not somebody you want marrying your daughter but he did not commit sexual crimes against these women. These women said yes.

Speaker 1 These women went along with it. They had career aspirations.
They didn't make clear to him that they were unwilling participants.

Speaker 1 Only after the fact, when the Me Too era came along, was it suddenly, I was a crime victim in that moment.

Speaker 6 She's good, Arthur. You should bring her up.

Speaker 5 You know, almost decades late, almost decades later, when the complaints made, and it's no secret because it's out there in the public, that they all received a lot of money, like hundreds of thousands of of dollars.

Speaker 5 Um, so you know, I look, we have something to work with. If this was not Harvey Weissen, if this was Harvey Jones, and a jury came in and knew nothing about this, I would be very confident.

Speaker 5 Right now, Mr.

Speaker 5 Eiglos, the two words I would love to hear is hung jury or mistrial at the end of the case, because the they said the preconceived notions that people have going into that courtroom is really the Mount Everest we have to climb.

Speaker 6 Yeah, there's no presumption of innocence.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I know, but I have to say, like, I think maybe I'm the exception, but even though I've listened to countless testimonials by women who said that they were the victims of a Me Too situation, I think I could go in there and say,

Speaker 1 but I will judge this case based on the evidence that is put before me and figure out whether in these incidents brought to me, he committed a crime. I really think I could do it.

Speaker 1 I think my fellow New Yorkers can do it. I mean, New Yorkers are tough as dolls.

Speaker 3 Like, they're

Speaker 3 smart.

Speaker 5 I think you can do it, but a Manhattan jury pool where Donald Trump got 17% of the vote.

Speaker 5 I mean, I just think there's just so inclined.

Speaker 1 It's not a Republican-Democrat thing. Republicans don't like sexual crimes.

Speaker 5 I know, but they're very much, they're all about believe all women. They're all about the Attorney General, Letitia James, believe all women, believe all women.
They lean heavily in that direction.

Speaker 6 And they believe the media, too. That's another problem.
Once they've read something in black and white, a lot erroneously think that that's the truth.

Speaker 1 It's hard to.

Speaker 1 well, I think if you, if you're worried about believe all women, Arthur, I would say, you don't need my advice to try a case, but I mean, you might want to hit that one right on the head and say, I understand that that's, that's the line.

Speaker 1 And maybe you, maybe you even do believe, maybe you believe that he crossed lines. He was inappropriate.
You know, you don't like him.

Speaker 1 But that's a big, big, big cry away from, far cry from he, he committed rape. He committed sexual assault.

Speaker 1 And, you know, it, it's either that, or it's you had consensual partners who maybe were uncomfortable but didn't express it.

Speaker 1 You had people who were there, maybe they did feel duress, but without telling him until 20 years later, how was he to know?

Speaker 1 I mean, what makes it a crime is when you don't have the consent of the other woman.

Speaker 1 Like one of one of the women is I understand it, Arthur, it's been a while, but she's alleging that he performed like forcible oral sex on her.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 you know, I think you could definitely fairly get into

Speaker 1 how does that happen, right? Like, how can that be done in a forcible, non-consensual,

Speaker 1 non-consensual way? Or is it more likely it happened where the man thought he did have permission and learned later that the woman was there against her?

Speaker 6 The state's going to get into that. That's what the prosecution has to do.
And they will.

Speaker 6 And then they're going to drop it in Arthur's lap when they're done in graphic detail, leaving you with an image of how that could have happened.

Speaker 5 Good from getting some legal advice here. How about this one, Megan? Because I really think this is probably

Speaker 5 accurate. They were kind of friends with benefits.

Speaker 5 You know, he was getting something from them, and they were going to Oscar parties, and they were going to the Khan Film Festival, and they were having access to things that they would never have access to.

Speaker 5 These were not these caliber of people.

Speaker 5 And in return, you know, he had a nice 15 minutes, you know, in the bedroom with them.

Speaker 1 Do any of them expressly allege that they said no in the moment and that they made clear with their body language or their voice explicitly that it was a no?

Speaker 5 Well, they do now. You know, in the grand jury

Speaker 5 six years ago, they were a lot more, it was a lot more hesitant. And now six years later, you know, it's much more, oh, absolutely.
It was absolutely clear that that's not what I wanted.

Speaker 5 So you know how testimony develops over the course of time.

Speaker 1 All right. When he gives his closing argument, Mark, come up here and you and I can go together.

Speaker 6 Nice. Love it.

Speaker 5 This case is actually more about the opening argument. I truly believe that.

Speaker 5 I think you need to set the jurors' mindset from the beginning, what they should be listening for, where the holes in the people's case is, where the evidence that they're not going to hear.

Speaker 5 They're not going to hear from any law enforcement that things were admitted to, not from any medical doctors that anyone for treatment, not from any psychologists or psychiatrists. There's no DNA.

Speaker 5 There's no video. There's no audio.
It's just them. And you have to just judge their credibility, judge their body language on the stand, listen to all the inconsistencies that are going to come out.

Speaker 5 And then you tell me whether there's a reasonable doubt.

Speaker 6 Arthur, I agree with you. I think it starts in jury selection.

Speaker 6 You got to, you go right up to the line of pre-trying your case, take one step back, and that's where you need to be to make sure you get the right jurors.

Speaker 1 This is kind of exciting. Now I'm kind of looking forward to it in a way I hadn't been before.
I'm definitely going to swing by. I hope I do get to see your opening.

Speaker 3 I got all this free advice.

Speaker 5 Thank you. I got three advice from two groups.

Speaker 3 I'm excited.

Speaker 3 All right.

Speaker 1 So moving on to cases on our docket. I want to kick it off with this case down in Texas.
It's so disturbing.

Speaker 1 These two kids, these two high school kids, like if this didn't need to happen.

Speaker 1 The 17-year-old assailant, Carmelo Anthony, is arrested and charged with murder over the stabbing death of 17-year-old Austin Metcalfe. It happened on April 2nd.

Speaker 1 Austin and his twin brother and this Carmelo Anthony, who belonged to a different school, were all at a track meet as spectators.

Speaker 1 And I don't totally understand because I've heard different versions of this, but it appears that at the track meets, they would set up these tarps and then various kids would hang out under the tarps.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 Austin and his twin brother and a group from their school were under one tarp. There were many tarps.
And Carmelo Anthony, who was from a different school and definitely not part of their posse,

Speaker 1 came under the tarp and appears to have sat in Austin's seat.

Speaker 1 Again, the allegations on exactly where he was and what the offense was, it's remain somewhat fuzzy to me, but it was definitely under a tarp at a track meet.

Speaker 1 And the allegation is that

Speaker 1 Austin went over to Carmelo. This is from the police report, that Austin went over

Speaker 1 and Austin told Anthony that he needed to move out from under their team's tent. And Anthony grabbed his bag, again, quoting here.
This is a full description. Officer Taylor Wetzel wrote this

Speaker 1 based on what a witness told him. Then Carmelo Anthony grabbed his bag after being told he had to move and reached inside of it and proceeded to tell Austin, touch me and see what happens.

Speaker 1 No one really thought Anthony really had a weapon in his bag. And Austin proceeded to touch Anthony.
And then Anthony told Austin to punch him and see what happens.

Speaker 1 A short time later, Austin grabbed Anthony to tell him to move. And Anthony pulled out

Speaker 1 what was recalled as a black knife and stabbed Austin once in the chest and then ran away. Another officer spoke to two witnesses, one being the victim's twin brother, Hunter Metcalf.

Speaker 1 They were hysterical.

Speaker 1 What we're hearing from Carmelo Anthony's defense lawyer is that they're going to argue this was self-defense. That,

Speaker 1 you know, he said,

Speaker 1 touch me and find out what happens. And then Austin touched him.
And therefore, he was in fear and pulled out a knife.

Speaker 1 I mean, you could argue self-defense if he had pulled out his fists and started punching Austin Metcalf. We wouldn't be here.
The law would not be involved.

Speaker 1 But Mark, he pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the chest. And you tell me, but the law, the self-defense laws in Texas and in all states require proportionality.

Speaker 6 Of course. And when I said, of course, that's a defense, it's because you're not going to argue insanity and you're not going to argue it was, you know, someone else who did it.

Speaker 6 You know, it's clearly going to be self-defense. And the question is, do the facts rise to the level where he reasonably feared death or great bodily harm from this guy?

Speaker 6 And that hinges upon really what are the witnesses saying? You know, we don't have all the statements.

Speaker 6 Maybe there's a few who say that the alleged, that the, that the victim did grab him because I did read that that occurred. I've heard touching.
I've heard grabbing. I don't know.

Speaker 6 But if it was just like you read, I think that that falls short of reasonably believing death of great bodily harm. And here's the other thing.
The other thing is he was the instigator.

Speaker 6 He, meaning the defendant. That's a problem when you're the instigator, when then you're the initial aggressor, I think you might lose some protections that you normally have.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can't claim self-defense. That's exactly right.
If you started it and the other guy is like, okay, let's go,

Speaker 1 then you can't say, I had to do it to protect myself. Here is Tim Poole.
He's a podcaster, Arthur. He was on his show talking about this.
And I'd love to get your reaction to what he says here. Watch.

Speaker 7 Imagine you are invited to a party at someone else's house and you are legally carrying a firearm.

Speaker 7 And then a fight breaks out and you, or like an altercation breaks out between you and some guy, and there's drinking involved or whatever. I'm not trying to make a one-for-one scenario.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to create a potential scenario separate from this one with similarities.

Speaker 2 You go to a party.

Speaker 3 Yeah, let's say you go to a party.

Speaker 7 And some guy starts saying stuff like, yo, man, get out of here. And you're like, I can do what I want.
I was invited to the party. Verbal ask, you know, verbal altercation escalates.

Speaker 8 And then the dude, you're standing there and you pull your sweater back and you've got a gun.

Speaker 7 You put your hand up and say,

Speaker 7 don't come close to me, bro. I'm warning you right now.
Do not come close. Do not take another step.
Then the guy grabs your arm and makes makes a move.

Speaker 8 So you draw your weapon and you use it.

Speaker 7 Okay, make the argument. You have no right to defend yourself when you're being attacked by a guy.
Make the argument. By all means, go ahead and do so.
I ain't going to do it.

Speaker 5 That's that's a ground. That's a ground ball.
I mean, that's a

Speaker 5 law school where you can't. You can't.
So sorry, you have to get punched in the face. You're not allowed to execute someone with a gun who's going to punch you in the nose.

Speaker 5 And just the way the law is, I believe, in all 50 states. You just said it, Megan.
It's a

Speaker 5 proportionality.

Speaker 5 Let me just tell you how this case is going to get handled in Texas with this 17-year-old. Oh, it should get.
And this is the reality. And Mark will back me up.
Our guy Gloss is going to get hired.

Speaker 5 He's going to get some kind of a child psychologist or

Speaker 5 child psychiatrist. They're going to do a whole buildup of this kid, who he is, where he's from, the defendant.

Speaker 5 I'm talking about who he is, where he's from, what his background is, any kind of mitigation whatsoever.

Speaker 5 And then you're going to go in and you're going to sit down with one of the lead prosecutors of the homicide bureau in that

Speaker 5 in that jurisdiction. And you're going to be like, look,

Speaker 5 you and I know that based on the witnesses, based on the evidence that we have, yes, there's a possibility I could go in front of a jury with a straight face and say self-defense, but that's too big of a risk for a 17-year-old kid who might spend the rest of his life in jail.

Speaker 5 We're not minimizing the loss of life of another 17-year-old, but let's not try to have two. absolute complete tragedies.

Speaker 5 And let's talk about a number, a real number, where the kid's going to to spend a lot of time in jail, but not the rest of his life in jail, which would probably be the case if he goes to trial and loses.

Speaker 5 And you sit down and two qualified lawyers, very experienced lawyers, with the approval of the judge, work out some sort of plea bargain.

Speaker 3 This is not, from what we've done. That makes perfect sense.

Speaker 1 Not a trial. But there's a lot.
There's a lot behind these two sides right now.

Speaker 1 People are lining up on both sides of this case. The GoFundMes for each guy are almost exactly the same amount.
Let's call it 325,000 that people have donated to both.

Speaker 1 Because people defending Carmelo Anthony think that this was self-defense and he's getting railroaded potentially because he's black. And people on the Metcalf family side say this is outrageous.

Speaker 1 At worst, if you take all the allegations about Austin Metcalf as true, at worst, what he did was put his hands on a guy who refused to leave a section that he wasn't seated in and

Speaker 1 put his hands on him at the guy's know, invitation to say, you know, try to make me. And you don't get a knife in the heart for that.
I'll read you the law on self-defense in Texas.

Speaker 1 A person is justified in using deadly force against another when into the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary, A,

Speaker 1 to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force. So it's not any kind of force or bodily harm.

Speaker 1 It's you have to reasonably think that you need to immediately use deadly force to prevent unlawful, deadly force against you. Or, and here, okay, let's see, maybe Carmelo

Speaker 1 Anthony has something under the ORP clause.

Speaker 1 to prevent the others imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery. Not even aggravated assault is listed there.

Speaker 1 So, Megan,

Speaker 6 Arthur was, yeah, no, Arthur was 100% correct, articulate, passionate in exactly assessing how this is going to go down, if this is being handled reasonably.

Speaker 6 Whether it's me representing him or someone else, you don't take the risk of going to trial with these facts, assuming there's no additional facts we don't know about.

Speaker 6 Like, did the kid say, I'm going to kill you now? And then he stabs him.

Speaker 6 And again, I'm making stuff up. I don't know.
You'll sit down with the prosecutor after you have your client evaluated.

Speaker 6 If the prosecutors aren't playing ball and giving you a reasonable outcome, maybe you like the judge. The judge is compassionate and reasonable.

Speaker 6 You look for some type of downward departure below what he would normally be getting. And you look for some compassion from the judge.
But politics will play a huge role in this case.

Speaker 5 But and Megan, in terms of the GoFundMe stuff, the biggest joke about the GoFundMe stuff has got to do with that kid, Luigi Bangioni, who executed the executive and the women are sending him letters.

Speaker 5 People are saying, oh, he's got a chance at trial. People are into him.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 Wait until those 12 jurors see the deceased wife on the witness stand who has to identify the body and talk about how her kids missed their father.

Speaker 5 And they watch that video of him executing him, the shooting over and over and over again.

Speaker 5 Stop it. It's not going to happen.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're just not going to get to that.

Speaker 1 And I just said, we're not going to get to the point in this country where what's foreseeable is a knife to the heart amongst 17-year-old boys who are scuffling, even arguing impolitely.

Speaker 1 I don't know exactly what happened. We'll find out over a seat at a track meet.

Speaker 1 Like, that's just no one is going to interpret the law to say it was a reasonable response because that's what self-defense is trying to factor in.

Speaker 1 Was your response reasonable under the circumstances? You know, Texas has got the castle doctrine where you don't. You don't have to retreat.

Speaker 1 If somebody comes into your home, you got your gun, you can shoot them. So this isn't that.
This is not that.

Speaker 1 This kid got asked a question you know please leave or told to leave and he started to threaten make me and austin allegedly put hands on him and he stabbed him to the heart in no world is that going to qualify as self-defense um i'll let andrew braca branca

Speaker 1 many times in connection with the kyle rittenhouse case he's got a whole blog called the law of self-defense he's very pro second amendment he took a look at the police report here's what he said sat seven

Speaker 1 austin

Speaker 9 the victim, had told Anthony, the stabber, that he needed to move out from under the team's tent.

Speaker 9 And Anthony grabbed his bag, opened it, and reached inside and proceeded to tell Austin, touch me and see what happens.

Speaker 9 No one really thought Anthony really had any weapons in his bag, and Austin proceeded to touch Anthony. And then Anthony told Austin to punch him and see what happens.

Speaker 9 This is provocation with intent, folks. These are facts I had not heard before.

Speaker 9 The stabber is provoking

Speaker 3 the victim to use force for the purpose of being able to inflict deadly force upon him.

Speaker 9 That's the most severe form of provocation, provocation with intent, and loses you self-defense as a legal defense. These are bad facts.

Speaker 3 for Carmelo Anthony.

Speaker 1 This is what you were saying, Mark, because the second part of that statute that I read that speaks to deadly force in defense of person reads: the actor's belief, you know, that you're about to face deadly bodily harm, deadly bodily harm,

Speaker 1 that the belief that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described above is presumed to be reasonable if the actor did not provoke the person against whom the force was used.

Speaker 3 So that provocation.

Speaker 1 He's saying, make me, you know, make me

Speaker 3 is provocation.

Speaker 6 The other side of this because

Speaker 6 not legally. Legally, we've already analyzed, we've already done the analysis on it and it's solid.
But you put people in the box in Texas, okay?

Speaker 6 We would think without knowing that, you know, there's $300,000 plus dollars being donated to the defendants fund that there couldn't be anyone supporting this type of activity.

Speaker 6 That shows what we're talking about here. You go to a jury trial,

Speaker 6 there may be a few people who just say, I don't care what the facts are, or those facts are enough for me, he reasonably feared, or else he wouldn't have stabbed him.

Speaker 6 I'm telling you, it's not a slam dunk jury trial because of who's going to sit on this jury.

Speaker 1 Well, not only that, but unfortunately, the internet has done its thing. And they have tried to paint the victim here, Austin

Speaker 1 Metcalf, as a white supremacist for which there is zero support. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 They're circulating pictures of Austin and his twin brother wearing camouflage and holding guns, like going out hunting, juxtaposed with Anthony in a suit.

Speaker 1 And this very popular

Speaker 1 guy on X calls him a suspected white supremacist. A suspected white supremacist.
No, I mean, honestly, you could get sued for this, sir. Like you seriously could get sued.

Speaker 1 And by the way, There are lots of pictures of Carmelo Anthony holding a gun and holding up the middle finger and trying to look like a thug on the internet, too.

Speaker 1 But this is what the prosecutor is going to have to deal with, too, when he's trying to pick a jury, right? Have you seen these posts suggesting that the decedent is some sort of a white supremacist?

Speaker 1 It's a lie, but it's out there. You can't say that.

Speaker 6 You don't want to put it out there. So you have to be more delicate as a prosecutor.
What have you seen? And let's go sidebar to discuss it.

Speaker 6 So that doesn't come out the minute they hear that he might be a white supremacist. Now you've, you know, infected.

Speaker 3 Painted your own jury pool.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And by the way, I mean, just for the record, even if he were a white supremacist, again, zero, zero, zero evidence to that effect,

Speaker 1 that you still can't stick a knife in his heart. You still can't.

Speaker 3 Like, right. And it would actually probably, it would be irrelevant.

Speaker 5 It wouldn't come out.

Speaker 5 It's not relevant to the case. I mean, unless someone said he threw out a racial slur or something like that, that would be different.
But I would argue as

Speaker 5 a defense attorney, how is that relevant if he's Catholic, if he's Jewish, if he's a white supremacist, or if he's part of Black Lives Matter? It doesn't matter. That's not part of this case.

Speaker 3 Unless.

Speaker 1 Throw white supremacists on the list of being Catholic or Jewish. What?

Speaker 5 Well, I mean, none of that stuff. None of that stuff comes in at the trial.

Speaker 1 But I'm just saying, it's not like an acceptable religious choice right after Catholicism and Judaism.

Speaker 5 Okay, Megan, give me a break. I'm over here.
I'm in trial prep. I'm doing the best I can under the circumstances.

Speaker 1 I'm very defensive of my Catholic faith right now because my kids are about to be confirmed.

Speaker 3 So I've been going to the retreats.

Speaker 1 I'm at my most holy, except for my well.

Speaker 5 If you notice, if you notice, I gloss his outfits, he's got the pink and the purple. I mean, he is ready to walk out the Easter parade here at Fifth Avenue.

Speaker 3 He's our own little bunny.

Speaker 6 Um, I'm glad that I don't celebrate Easter, the price of eggs are too high.

Speaker 1 Uh, records. We just did a fact-check on that on the AM update on egg prices for those of you interested.
Um, okay, let's move on.

Speaker 1 So, Brian Kohlberger, this trial is gonna go down in August, it's happening for real. And

Speaker 1 you've got Judge Hipler, hip, hip, with a P, double P,

Speaker 1 it's so close. Who is the new judge? And the defense attorney, Ann Taylor, yes, that's her name, is now maneuvering to

Speaker 1 suggest a trial that there were two assailants who killed these four Idaho college students within the course of what we believe is 12 to 17 minutes, 22 at the outside,

Speaker 1 but more like 12 minutes, that two men went into that Idaho house that night and killed Kaylee Gonsalves and Maddie Mogan and Ethan Chapin and Zana Kernodle, not Brian Kohlberger, who was a student at the University of Washington and a TA getting his PhD in criminology.

Speaker 1 Here's a little bit of Ann Taylor talking about the expert witness she's going to put on to that effect or wants to put on.

Speaker 1 We are.

Speaker 3 Didn't you produce an expert who said that

Speaker 3 there wasn't

Speaker 11 it would have required two people to commit the crime?

Speaker 1 Your Honor, we have produced an expert that believes that

Speaker 1 it's likely that there were two people, two weapons.

Speaker 1 And she goes on to say we came across a tip that would appear to be an alternate suspect. We're trying to work through that as rapidly as we can.

Speaker 1 And Judge Hipler said he would set a May deadline for the defense to present evidence of an alternate suspect. So why are they doing that? Why is she showing them?

Speaker 1 You know, whenever you, I'm on a Michael Connolly tear right now, reading all of his legal thrillers.

Speaker 1 The defense. Aren't they supposed to surprise the prosecution with something like this? What? I like, you have to disclose every card you're going to play at trial?

Speaker 5 Sometimes you do, Megan.

Speaker 5 I I mean, something like when it comes to experts, especially when it comes to experts, you have to, there's a, in New York, there's a very strict requirement because you play the game of the experts.

Speaker 5 You got to let them know who your expert is and give them an offer of proof basically about what they're going to testify.

Speaker 5 And then they get to go get their own expert to contradict what your expert is saying. I mean, it usually doesn't hold true for private investigators.

Speaker 5 But if you're introducing a whole new theory to the case, you may not be obligated under the law to do that, but a judge usually doesn't like to get caught

Speaker 5 by surprise. So I don't know if that particular jurisdiction, I could tell you for an alibi witness,

Speaker 5 if you're in New York, if you're saying my guy wasn't at the scene, he was in Rhode Island at the time that it took place,

Speaker 5 there's a certain amount of time where you have to say, my client was not there and they were elsewhere.

Speaker 1 She alleged he was out stargazing that night. It was just a lovely night for stargazing, and that was their quote, alibi.
Here's the other point on this case, Mark.

Speaker 1 The defense moved to bar the prosecution from using the terms psychopath and sociopath before the jurors.

Speaker 1 They actually also didn't want the prosecution to use the term murderer.

Speaker 1 The judge left open the possibility that the prosecution could use the word murderer during closing arguments, but I think is still considering on psychopath or sociopath.

Speaker 1 But what kind of motion is this? Since when can the prosecution not say, he's a murderer? That's what we're all doing here.

Speaker 6 Okay, so this is, you have to imagine he's going to be convicted, and then there's going to be always an attack on what the lawyers could have or should have done. And also, the lawyers want to win.

Speaker 6 So there's no harm and don't take offense with lawyers filing motions and for the judge to consider it.

Speaker 6 Calling him a murderer, I would argue, is unfair until and unless closing argument occurs when they then have proven that he did commit murder. That's number one.

Speaker 6 The other thing, sociopath, psychopath, any words they want to come up with, if that's not proven, if that hasn't ever been proven as a fact, it would be unfair, one would argue.

Speaker 6 Jurors would think that if those terms apply to him, it's more likely that he is a murderer. So I know why the defense would not want those things heard.

Speaker 6 And if there's not evidence to support it, the the judge shouldn't let it in.

Speaker 3 It's just prejudicial.

Speaker 3 Oh, you're jagged. Not even the jury.
Right?

Speaker 1 Was one of the greatest legal thrillers ever. You guys remember that movie? So good, if the listening audience hasn't seen it, with Glenn Close, right? And Jeff Bridges.
So good.

Speaker 1 And in the closing argument, and I won't get into exactly all of it, but in the closing argument, there's that great lawyer, and he said something to the effect of, he's a sociopath. He is an ice man.

Speaker 1 and i was like oh right so like i think that's how it went down he might have been saying it out of court but my point is simply

Speaker 1 prosecutors make these arguments i i would be happy

Speaker 1 as a prosecutor arthur saying he's a sociopath he went into that house and took the lies of four why couldn't you argue that

Speaker 5 well first of all the judge has ruled in this case that it will give them leeway in their closing arguments but that's prejudicial and conclusory statements by the prosecutor it's the jury's job to determine whether he's a murderer.

Speaker 5 Like in the Harvey Weistee case, I'm objecting to them calling these women.

Speaker 1 You lost touch with the prosecutor.

Speaker 3 You hold me to you, people.

Speaker 1 You got to be able to, I totally disagree. You can argue the same.
You can say he is a sociopath. He has no feelings

Speaker 3 about taking the lies of others.

Speaker 3 Buckle back me up.

Speaker 5 Buckle back me up. The judge ruled properly here.
Prosecutor did not call a defendant a sociopath. That's almost reversible error.
You can't

Speaker 3 testify.

Speaker 6 Megan, Megan, because it's not an opinion. You are,

Speaker 6 to be a sociopath or a psychopath, there has to be proof, meaning someone analyzed him. That wasn't done.

Speaker 6 That's such a prejudicial term.

Speaker 1 I really disagree.

Speaker 1 I think if you can prove that this guy took the lives of four college students in 12 minutes single-handedly with a serrated edge knife and then walked out and went home and took a selfie of himself with his little white shirt on and a thumbs up.

Speaker 1 It's fair to say he's a murderer. He's a sociopath.

Speaker 3 Don't let him walk the streets.

Speaker 6 Murderer, yes, in closing, once it's been proven, that he has no feelings, that he, all the things that you said, except for that term, which

Speaker 6 there's no evidence, it's conclusory. There's no

Speaker 3 police.

Speaker 3 It's so long.

Speaker 5 I forget if Mark.

Speaker 3 I was a prosecutor for five years. I got

Speaker 3 you lost.

Speaker 1 You went too native on the defense attorney years. Okay, let's go.

Speaker 3 I actually don't want to say that.

Speaker 1 You're probably right, but I think it's stupid.

Speaker 6 We'll try it twice. We'll do it your way.
And then the next time when they reverse it, we'll come back and do it our way.

Speaker 1 We definitely don't want that. Okay, now this might be my favorite one of the day.
The Blake Lively story. This is so interesting to me.
So, as the audience knows, there's this

Speaker 1 death match going on between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, with whom she made the movie, It Ends With Us, a film about domestic abuse. She tried to claim that he sexually harassed her on set.

Speaker 1 He hired my lawyer,

Speaker 1 Brian Friedman from my dispute with NBC

Speaker 1 and fought back like... fiercely saying I never harassed her a single day.
She's a psychopath and she's made this stuff up.

Speaker 1 She's making this stuff up because she wanted to wrest control of the movie away from me. And

Speaker 1 I let her to a large extent, but not to the extent she wanted. And ultimately, she did get control of the movie and then tried to ruin my life.
So that's kind of where it is. Cross suits.

Speaker 1 He sued the New York Times for defamation too because they wrote a very sympathetic article about her and what a victim she is. Well, one of her allegations was that, well, let me show you the scene.

Speaker 1 We cut it.

Speaker 1 Part of it. It's where her character gives birth in the movie, It Ends With Us.
Now, let's just watch it first.

Speaker 1 Listening audience, you can see her belly. She's got the legs spread.
He comes in, he's holding her hand. She's acting like a pregnant lady delivering a baby.

Speaker 1 Except she's smiling, which isn't realistic.

Speaker 3 I was going to say, he's tapping.

Speaker 1 He's touching her hand.

Speaker 3 That's not how my wife acted. I was going to say, Marion did did not look that way, Megan.
Marion did not look that way.

Speaker 6 It was my fault. I was getting hit.

Speaker 3 I was called stupid.

Speaker 5 I was called a very stupid man.

Speaker 6 Then I got to perform surgery by

Speaker 6 cutting the umbilical cord. Like, I've never gone to med school.

Speaker 3 Why am I like?

Speaker 1 Oh, there we go. He's cutting the umbilical cord.
Okay, but for about two seconds, there's a doctor down, you know, what comedian was it?

Speaker 1 Johnny Bench, like Johnny Bench in between the legs, getting ready to catch the baby. Was it Bill Cosby? Who was it who did that bit?

Speaker 3 Anyway,

Speaker 1 so her complaint alleges that that was one of the moments in which she got harassed because she says she was, here, I'll read you from the lawsuit. On the day of shooting that scene, Mr.

Speaker 1 Baldoni and his business partner, Mr. Heath, suddenly pressured Ms.
Lively to simulate.

Speaker 1 full nudity, despite no mention of nudity for this scene in the script, in her contract, or previous discussions. Claimed that Baldoni insisted that women do give give birth naked.
I mean, do they?

Speaker 1 Other than like a water birth, like what woman is like, yeah, take it off, take it all off. Woo! No, that's what happens in there.

Speaker 1 You got your gown and the gown, they hike it up, but you got a little something on. Okay, anyway.

Speaker 1 He insisted that women give birth naked, to which she disagreed, but felt forced into a compromise that she would be naked from below the chest.

Speaker 1 When the birth scene was filmed, the set was chaotic, crowded, she says, and utterly lacking in standard industry protections for filming nude scenes.

Speaker 1 Baldoni failed to close the set, allowing non-essential crew to pass through while Miss Lively was partially nude from below the chest, down, with her legs

Speaker 1 spread wide in stirrups, and only a small piece of fabric covering her genitalia. Miss Lively was not provided with anything.

Speaker 1 with which to cover herself between takes until after she had made multiple requests.

Speaker 1 She became even more alarmed when Baldoni introduced his, quote, best friend to play the role of the OBGYN, claimed typically a small role of this nature would be filled by a local actor.

Speaker 1 She felt the selection of Baldoni's friend for this intimate role, in which the actor's face and hands were in close proximity to her nearly new genitals for a birth scene, was invasive and humiliating.

Speaker 1 However, guys, as you know, because you prepared for today,

Speaker 1 that actor, Adam Monshine,

Speaker 1 has now spoken out and he's got a bone to pick with Blake Lively's description of what happened on that set. Arthur, you want to take it from there?

Speaker 5 Well, first of all, the actor, he's the one who's like the very Shakespearean trained actor. I mean, he basically says that's not what happened.
And it was very professional.

Speaker 5 The scene was very professional.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 5 like nothing was untoward. And it was, you know, we call it a big nothing burger.
And they're making this.

Speaker 1 And she was clothed.

Speaker 1 He says she was wearing clothing. He said she,

Speaker 1 her costume included a full hospital gown, black shorts, and torso covering prosthetic to make her appear pregnant in addition to whatever personal garments she chose.

Speaker 5 Yeah, so it's not too good when you have the guy who was there saying this is not the truth. And he's, I think a big point, though, he's a legitimate actor.

Speaker 5 Why don't you get his name with kids with an M, who's saying this? Like, he's a legitimate guy. So who doesn't seem to have a horse relation?

Speaker 1 She is making it sound like, you know, Arthur was the director of this scene and he got his buddy Lawrence Taylor to come by to play the OBGYNA Blake Live. He's going to be naked.
Get in here, LT.

Speaker 3 This is not what happened. This is a brilliant.

Speaker 1 This guy has his Bachelor's of Fine Arts in Acting from the University of Maryland. He's got an MFA, Master's of Fine Arts in Acting from UCLA.

Speaker 1 He worked for several Shakespeare companies, toured nationally with the Tony Award-winning acting company, attended the British American Dramatic Academy's Midsummer in Oxford program as a full scholarship winner.

Speaker 1 He's been on numerous shows on Netflix, on ABC, on TNT.

Speaker 1 Once again, Mark, the problem is her allegations and her complaint do not seem to match up with not just what Justin's saying, but with what independent people who have no acts to grind with Blake Lively are saying.

Speaker 6 That's the first problem, proving this. And there's always two sides.
And so I don't know that she'll be able to prove what's being alleged.

Speaker 6 But the second thing is there's a difference between what she's alleging, like intentional sexual harassment, and, well, things that in retrospect should have been done differently on the movie set that would have made her more comfortable that's what all this sounds like right and the third thing is jurors always look and it's legally proper towards the person bringing the suit and saying well what else could you have done she doesn't seem like a very passive soft flower.

Speaker 6 She would have spoken up and saying, I will not do this. I don't want all these people on this set.
I don't want this. I don't want that.
So they're going to be looking at her as well.

Speaker 1 That's the thing.

Speaker 1 So she makes it sound in this complaint arthur like she is this powerless shrinking violet this one i circled in particular she was not provided with anything with which to cover herself between takes until after she had made multiple requests does anyone really believe Blake Lively, who had 100 times the star power and regular power of anybody on that set, was sitting there naked going, somebody, please get me a cover.

Speaker 1 Multiple requests, get me a cover, get me a cover. And everyone just blew her off like ah screw her

Speaker 5 of course of course not it does not sound reasonable at all also she says it doesn't say in my contract anything about nudity but it's but my understanding is it did say there was a childbirth scene and you know there is some degree of nudity in any kind of childbirth but they're just gonna do it from the neck up they don't come out of your nose no

Speaker 1 not that i know of it's pretty it's pretty clear well look i'm looking at that birth scene i don't i can't see what's there And that's obvious.

Speaker 1 The filmmakers don't want you to see if she's wearing a pair of black shorts. It kind of suspends disbelief on

Speaker 1 the giving birth claims. But in any event, she,

Speaker 1 I want to go on just for another minute about what Adam Monschine is alleging. He played Dr.
Dunbar in that scene. He says,

Speaker 1 yeah. My experience working with her is very different than the one she described in her lawsuit.
Indeed, I was surprised to read her description of the scene.

Speaker 1 He goes on about the costume, as I read before. Then he further alleged that Lively never complained or expressed discomfort at any point because nothing unusual or improper occurred.

Speaker 1 It was extremely professional. And of course, he was there for all of it because he was playing the OB right between the legs.

Speaker 1 He called Lively's insinuations about his acting qualifications offensive, as his bona fides are easily searchable online, and says, by the way, I was actually a local hire.

Speaker 1 My wife and I are from New York, and we spend significant time there. And apparently, that's where the scene was shot.
And said, if I'm called to testify in this case, I will answer truthfully.

Speaker 1 And he says,

Speaker 1 in particular, I will note that Ms. Lively was not, quote, nearly nude in the scene we shot together.
So here's the takeaway. You tell me what you think.

Speaker 1 This is how Brian Friedman and Justin Baldoni are going to win this case. You don't have to take all 20 of her allegations.
Pick your top four, right? And show.

Speaker 1 You don't have to take Baldoni's word on the birth scene. Listen to Adam Monsheim, who is telling you he was there.

Speaker 1 And by the way, here are the raw film outtakes from the whole thing, where you can see she is wearing black shorts.

Speaker 1 She does not have just a thin piece of fabric separating her genitalia from everybody there. And let's sit and listen to her alleged multiple requests for a cover, which everyone blew her.

Speaker 1 I bet it's not going to be there. So how powerful a piece of evidence is this for an effective trial lawyer, guys?

Speaker 6 Huge, Megan. Arthur and I, who are artists in creating reasonable doubt, will tell the jury that if there's

Speaker 6 reasonable doubt created as to one allegation, while we might not be able to disprove the others, it shows what's going on here, that the person was caught in a lie.

Speaker 5 They're willing to manufacture allegations, at least as it relates to some things and so you can disregard her entire testimony so yes i think this is colossal it's not even you know mark and i are criminal guys so it's not even reasonable doubt under these circumstances it's even a lesser standard but you know you also make it have to think about the lawyering the lawyering here when you're going to make when she's going to make this claim you have to tell your client okay i heard what you said you know there's going to be like there was like 12 other people in the room or according to you even more and they're going to know you know they're going to be witnesses as well they're going to support the fact that you didn't have that, you know, you were naked, right?

Speaker 5 No one's going to say you had shorts on, right? And they're all going to say, they're all going to support the fact that you asked to be covered up and nobody helped you, correct?

Speaker 5 Like, you got to, now maybe the lawyer did. And she's like, oh, absolutely.

Speaker 3 I didn't have anything on it. Maybe the film will show that in her defense.

Speaker 1 Maybe the film will show that. And, you know, this guy will be proven wrong.
Keep going.

Speaker 5 The bottom line is when you're on the plaintiff's side, before you make these claims, you better do some some homework and some of your own investigation work because as the lawyer your reputation is on the line you're the one who signs that complaint and says you know i'm submitting these papers and it sounds like from this witness who sounds like a very credible guy here that uh you know that she either lied to her lawyer or her lawyer didn't do her homework

Speaker 1 sounds like somebody the jury is going to like that's my gut instinct and they're not going to like that she smeared him as just a best friend who was trying to get a look at her vag um last but not least this woman christina Formella, 30 years old, Illinois teacher accused of molesting a 15-year-old student who was on a soccer team she coached and whom she tutored.

Speaker 1 Allegedly happened in a Downers Grove High School classroom in December 2023. At the time, she was 28, he was 15.

Speaker 1 And they had a sexual interlude. There may have been more than one.
I don't know. There are text messages in which she texts him, I love you so much, baby.

Speaker 1 Even though this morning was short, it was perfect.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 she wrote directly to him, I love having sex with you. Now she's claiming he wrote those texts on her phone, which he stole from her.

Speaker 1 And then he deleted the record on her phone so she wouldn't see that he had done this.

Speaker 1 She's in a lot of trouble out in Illinois right now. And you tell me how this case is likely to get resolved.

Speaker 3 Get it, Mark.

Speaker 5 As you know, the heart wants what the heart wants, even if they are, even if this is.

Speaker 6 Arthur, she's going to prison. They've got enough evidence.

Speaker 6 The things that she's alleging on the defense are not supported by the evidence, including the things that she claimed that her husband knew. She is going to get what she deserves.

Speaker 1 And it appears, if I read this correctly, that eventually she...

Speaker 1 She fessed up to some piece of this.

Speaker 1 I got to find out where, where is that? She did.

Speaker 1 She fessed up to some piece of this. Where is it? I can't find it.

Speaker 6 Because it's in black and white. She can't deny these things, you know?

Speaker 9 Yeah. She, okay.

Speaker 1 It says, okay, she fessed up to having, okay, Formella later fessed up to having a relationship with the boy, prosecutors say, quote, defendant admitted she knew the relationship was wrong, but she was unable to stop it because she cares too much about him.

Speaker 1 And in another tape, she says she was just too hot.

Speaker 5 And that's why people say things about her that as they said, the heart wants what the heart wants.

Speaker 1 This is Arthur's defense to everything. I was too hot.
Arthur.

Speaker 5 Megan, here's my defense. Ladies and gentlemen, the casting couch is not a crime scene.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm open-minded. I want to hear where that goes.
And maybe I will in court next week. Thank you guys.
Good luck, Arthur.

Speaker 5 Thank you so much. Be good, Mark.

Speaker 3 Take care. Bye bye.

Speaker 3 Good luck.

Speaker 1 May the best witness win. Okay, up next, Tim Dylan.
When your metabolism works works properly, you feel the benefits in so many aspects of your life. And that's why I want to tell you about Lumen.

Speaker 1 Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath.

Speaker 1 The app lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs and gives tailored guidance to improve nutrition, workouts, sleep, and even stress management.

Speaker 1 Just breathe into your lumen first thing in the morning and you will know what's going on with your metabolism.

Speaker 1 You can also breathe into it before and after workouts and meals so you get real-time info. Your metabolism is how your body turns the food you eat into fuel that keeps you going.

Speaker 1 It's at the center of everything your body does. Optimal metabolic health translates to easier weight management, improved energy levels, better fitness results, and more.

Speaker 1 The warmer months are coming. Spring, back into your health and fitness.
Go to lumen.me/slash/megan, and that'll get you 15% off your lumen.

Speaker 1 L-U-M-E-N dot M-E/slash M-E-G-Y-N For 15% off your purchase. Thank you, Lumen, for sponsoring this episode.

Speaker 11 Why did we build the first American nuclear plant in 30 years? Because we're leading the way to secure American energy dominance.

Speaker 11 And why announce over $70 billion in energy infrastructure investments to keep meeting America's energy demand, win the AI race, and because our 9 million customers deserve affordable, reliable energy to power their homes and businesses.

Speaker 11 At Southern Company, the investments we make today are powering America's energy future.

Speaker 12 Remember when Laundry Day meant literally your entire day? Sorting loads, switching machines, forgetting wet clothes until they need washing again? Those days are over.

Speaker 12 The new Samsung Bespoke AI Laundry combo takes clothes from dirty to dry in as little as 68 minutes. No transfers needed.

Speaker 12 A new way to do laundry is here from the brand-rated number one in customer satisfaction, Samsung. Visit Samsung.com/slash bespoke to learn more.

Speaker 12 Based on most most Customer Satisfaction Awards Home Appliance Surveys leading customer research organization 2020 through 2024.

Speaker 1 I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM.

Speaker 1 It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today.

Speaker 1 You can catch the Megan Kelly Show on Triumph, a Sirius XM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr.

Speaker 1 Laura, Blen Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megan Kelly. You can stream the Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are.
No car required. I do it all the time.

Speaker 1 I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad-free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast, and more.
Subscribe now, get your first three months for free.

Speaker 13 Go to SiriusXM.com/slash MK Show to subscribe and get three months free. That's seriousxm.com/slash slash mk show

Speaker 13 and get three months free. Offer details apply.

Speaker 1 It's Friday so we're gonna have some fun. I'm super excited because a guest that we had on way back in 2021, it was I think January 2021,

Speaker 1 Janifrab, on episode 60, number 60. Here we're over a thousand now, is here in person, comedian Tim Dylan.
Tim has a new Netflix special out next week called I'm Your Mother, And it is hilarious.

Speaker 1 Here's a look.

Speaker 3 It's so funny what we find about in America. We're going to ban TikTok or we're not.

Speaker 3 I don't know.

Speaker 3 I don't care how you feel about that. At a certain age, you've got to shut up.
Like, I'm 39 years old and I have friends that are still, they're like, they can't ban TikTok.

Speaker 14 I'm like, hey, Ralph,

Speaker 14 sit down.

Speaker 14 Sit this out.

Speaker 14 They can't ban that child's dancing app.

Speaker 14 Ralph,

Speaker 14 this looks terrible. Please.

Speaker 3 Stop.

Speaker 14 Where am I going to watch children dance? All right. Hey, enough.

Speaker 3 You're not helping, Ralph. Tim, great to see you again.
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 Awesome. I was just saying, like, so when we first talked, it was like the height of the pandemic.
Yeah. Nonsense.
Everything was still locked down. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I remember one of the things we discussed was how comedians are being canceled left and right.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it was a weird time. People were very uptight and people were very, you know, tense and

Speaker 3 there was a lot of anger and a lot of it was coming for comedy. A lot of it was pointed in that direction.
I feel like now people have, it's dissipated. People are more relaxed.

Speaker 3 I think, I mean, not in every facet of life, but certainly with comedy, people are relaxing and common sense is coming back. And I think people are having more fun.

Speaker 1 How do we get there? How did we finally get to the point where we took our boot off the necks of the comedians?

Speaker 3 i think it was just you know people i think realized that they were being silly i think what happened was people were being a bit ridiculous they were going overboard i think it tends to happen um i think we're in like a little bit of a moral panic where people were trying to assert at every moment how good they were And I think people just got tired of that.

Speaker 3 I think it's exhausting. I think not having fun is actually very tiring.
Being a stickler is very tiring. It's very exhausting.

Speaker 3 And I think people just got to a point when, you know, they realized that that was not only a terrible way to live, but it's also not effective.

Speaker 3 The world that they want isn't, isn't going to be manifested through scolding people. So I think they realized that.
I hope you're right.

Speaker 1 I hope we're done with that period.

Speaker 3 I hope forevermore. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it's funny because we didn't do a ton of your bio, a little bit last time that you came on, but I, I didn't remember that you were, you're going to love this in my packet that my team gave me.

Speaker 3 you do the best interview and i i don't even want to say this just because i'm here but like you have the best people you research you know things thank you most people you go to their interview and they go so now you're a comedian like no one has a clue well yeah you'll love this yeah Unsuccessful child actor.

Speaker 3 Unsuccessful. Failed.
That's not nice. Failed.
Why? Wait. Well, it didn't work.

Speaker 1 You know, they pulled clips of you. Here you are on Sesame Street.
Let's watch. Speaking of dancing children.

Speaker 3 By the way, that doesn't pay. Okay, you're the one.
Public a blonde boy. And we're getting rid of it, and I'm happy.

Speaker 1 Wait, here he is with Mr. Snuffalopagus.
That's right. Wait, let's watch.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's you in the back.

Speaker 3 We just, I believe Doziers just cut the funding for this.

Speaker 3 Which I think is probably reasonable. You stole the scene.

Speaker 2 I don't understand.

Speaker 1 I barely look at Snuffalopagus.

Speaker 3 It was a big deal when you're a little kid to do it. Totally.
It was like, you know, you got to.

Speaker 1 It's not going to turn into a Tom Cruise-like career.

Speaker 3 It didn't turn into anything.

Speaker 3 That was the height of it. What happened? Public television was the height of it.
I wasn't good. What? Wait, you know, I mean, I think that's the problem.

Speaker 1 We have one more.

Speaker 1 I'm going to put it to the test. This is you on Comedy Central on a skit.
Just say no, Jay.

Speaker 3 Just say no, Jay, yeah. In the 1990s.

Speaker 1 Was it

Speaker 1 after the murders?

Speaker 3 It was after the murders. At Comedy Central had this campaign where they were trying to get people to stop watching the trial and start watching Comedy Central.
Okay.

Speaker 3 So they had this just say no, Jay campaign, and it satirized how insane people had become with the trial. Yes.
And I think I play a young kid playing like a DNA testing kit. Let's see.

Speaker 1 Picture of Marcia Clark's book. Not now, Trevor, down.

Speaker 1 Mom and dog.

Speaker 1 Here you are. There's the blind hair.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I love who Trevor is.

Speaker 3 This was the height of it.

Speaker 3 The door shuts off the TV.

Speaker 3 And you then. Just say

Speaker 3 from the comedy central.

Speaker 1 That was it?

Speaker 3 That was it.

Speaker 3 This is the height of my career. 42 seconds.
This is the height of my career. Nothing except that.

Speaker 3 Years of auditioning, going into the city, nothing. Nothing? That was it.
That's really sad. The two things you just played were it.

Speaker 1 We didn't leave any gold out there.

Speaker 3 And you know the saddest thing? We'd have holiday parties. We're Irish.
We'd have big family parties and we'd play that.

Speaker 3 We'd play that. So the whole, I mean, everybody would be there.
Everybody would be like, oh, he did something. Let's see it.
Yeah, your mom's like, let me show you, Timmy. That.

Speaker 3 And then it's just a bunch of drunk, red-faced Irish people watching me dance with Snuffalumpagus going.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, Irish people are brutally honest. They're brutally honest.
Unfortunately, I'm sure they really got it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So that may have led to chapter two, which my team describes as discovered cocaine and alcohol at 13 discovered it discovered it uh developed a relationship with it which was

Speaker 3 yeah discovered i like that disco by the way it's the nicest way i've ever heard it described discovered it yeah i mean i was a wild kid and i was it because of your child acting it was probably because of that also because my parents were kind of i love them both they were just boomers and they were a little checked out

Speaker 3 parenting was a little different back then. Very.
It was not as intense as it is now.

Speaker 3 There was no tracker on a phone that knew where I was. You would go to the park.
You would ride your bike. You would leave.
And I had a lot of older friends and they were into drugs.

Speaker 3 And I got into it through them. And, you know, it was a little bit of a wild ride for about 10 years.
Oh, really? About 10 years. And now, now 15 years sober of all things.

Speaker 1 So nothing. You don't drink.
You don't do anything. Nothing.
So it's kind of a blessing.

Speaker 3 It's a good thing to get out of your system young. I mean, not that young.

Speaker 1 That way, like when you can still save your liver. You know, it's like you stop drinking at 25 or whatever.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I stopped drinking at 25. And,

Speaker 3 you know, but

Speaker 3 it was a time where I learned a lot about life doing all that stuff.

Speaker 3 I wouldn't recommend it. No.
There's other ways to learn about life. If you're watching this, you know, take a class or something.

Speaker 1 Could I put Junior on the Tim Dylan board?

Speaker 3 Yeah, or read a book. But I learned a lot about life doing that.
You learn a lot about

Speaker 3 accountability, being an addict. You learn a lot about not blaming other people for your problem.

Speaker 1 You learn that when you come out of the addiction.

Speaker 3 You learn it when you come out of it. Yeah.
You learn it when you come out of it, which was a great lesson.

Speaker 1 I was sort of laughing at first, thinking it couldn't have been his short stint as a child actor. Yeah.
It turns out that your mom has a serious mental illness.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 1 And I'm sure that was stressful to grow up with.

Speaker 3 Well, she was a schizophrenic, and that was hard. It became more

Speaker 3 obvious when I was older. And it was difficult because

Speaker 3 when you're younger,

Speaker 3 you look at your parents and your mother as a authority figure who's like, you know,

Speaker 3 who's,

Speaker 3 you know, maybe, maybe wise or certainly,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 you know, integral to your growing up. And then realizing that she's a very fallible person with problems is a hard thing to realize.
And then realizing you can't do anything about it.

Speaker 3 You can't really do anything about it. You have to accept it and be the best you can be and live with it and deal with it.
So, I mean, I think that was something too that was difficult.

Speaker 1 Did you like experience her while she was having delusions?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, so an Irish Catholic family, we were very, we weren't big on the term schizophrenic. We were, for a while there, we just thought she was eccentric or fun.
Right. You know, Patty's fun.

Speaker 3 She would say something. She'd go, I think like, you know, your uncle is like a CIA agent or something.
And we'd all go, she's a boot. She's fun.

Speaker 3 And then we started realizing, oh, it's a mental disorder.

Speaker 1 So it was manageable. Like it wasn't like.

Speaker 3 It was manageable. She worked very hard.
She really, really worked. And then I think around

Speaker 3 in her 40s, she started, it started to progress and get worse.

Speaker 1 So how do you parlay that into comedy? Or is that just more the Irish Catholic strain?

Speaker 3 I think you parlay it into

Speaker 3 something creative. Doesn't have to be comedy.
But for me, it was like there was a lot of stuff that in order to deal with it, you could be funny about it. That's the way to deal with a lot of it.

Speaker 1 It's a coping mechanism.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's coping mechanism.

Speaker 3 There's a lot of people that have had mental illness in their family. They write great novels about it or they're, you know, a playwright, or they're a musician, or something.

Speaker 3 But for me, comedy made sense because it was a way to kind of goof about things that were, you know, incredibly painful. Yep.
You know, and you couldn't understand. So you didn't really understand it.

Speaker 3 I think that's a big thing in comedy, trying to make sense of things in a funny way.

Speaker 1 So another friend of mine who was a child actor for Reels, she starred on Little House on the Prairie.

Speaker 3 Oh, well, wow. Sorry.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I feel like she would have advocated for you.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Where is she now? And I'm kidding.
Probably very well.

Speaker 1 She's doing very well.

Speaker 3 She's doing very well.

Speaker 1 But she wrote a book called Diary of a Stage Mother's Daughter. Wow.
And talk about her mother was just totally overbearing and definitely had some mental issues.

Speaker 1 And she writes about this in the book, but she's always worried as she gets more mature. Am I going to have any of those issues? And she's not.
Yeah. But it seems like a natural worry.

Speaker 1 So how do you deal with that?

Speaker 3 Well, I do a podcast. If I become a schizophrenic, I make more money.

Speaker 3 So I have a career. Everyone would listen to that.
No one would know. In fact, it would be multiple years before anyone suggested something was off.
In fact, people go, it's getting really good.

Speaker 3 So I have a career where if I were to become a schizophrenic, people go, it's actually getting really good.

Speaker 3 So I'm not as worried about that as I would be if I was like a lawyer or something where it would become more apparent.

Speaker 1 Yes. Okay.
That makes sense. Yeah.
I hear we have something in common, and that is our mutual love for Megan Markle. Yes.
I hear you're ready to endorse her for president.

Speaker 3 I like her now. I've come around on her because I, since I'm a little kid, love con artists.
I think they're great. I think they're fun.

Speaker 3 They're an important part of America and the tapestry of our country.

Speaker 3 They, to me, exude

Speaker 3 a kind of effortless humor. They're very funny.

Speaker 3 And I find her to be a great con artist, one of the great con arts of time, one of the greats. You know, this is someone who came to prominence marrying into the royal family,

Speaker 3 claiming they were racist, claiming she wanted to dedicate herself to uplifting

Speaker 3 young women around the world, and is now

Speaker 3 selling jam at Target. Yes.
That's beautiful. She moved to the richest and whitest area of our country, Montecito.
Absolutely. And makes honey.

Speaker 3 There's nothing better than that from where she started to where she is now. And that's what I think a lot of it is.

Speaker 3 I think a lot of people that claim to be really evolved people who really want to help other people are just trying. She just wants a line of consumer goods.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's all she wants. We actually didn't give it to her.
We just looked this up. So she, there was a sound bite of her saying that she really wanted her merch that she's selling to be prestige.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Not prestigious. She wanted it to be prestige.
Yeah. But at like a price point everyone can afford.
Yeah. So we looked it up.
She's got a raspberry spread under the as ever label. Love it.

Speaker 1 Raspberry spread. You can get it for $14,

Speaker 1 or you can get it at Walmart under the smuckers label for $3.47.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 1 Herbal lemon ginger tea, as ever, will charge you $12. Or you can get it from Yogi for $4.46.
Shortbread Cookie Mix as ever will charge you $14.

Speaker 1 My Better Batch, which is high-end, $7.99. Right.
Then there's Wildflower Honey with Honeycomb. As ever, $28.

Speaker 1 Amazon, $11.

Speaker 1 And then there's Crepe Mix, which you can get from her for $14, or you can get it from New Hope Mills for $5.

Speaker 1 So you tell me whether this person has actually landed the plane

Speaker 1 on prestige, but totally affordable.

Speaker 3 Well, what's brilliant about what she's doing doing is she knows people want to spend money, and spending money makes them feel like they're getting something that's better, even though it might not necessarily be true.

Speaker 3 Um, and I think it's brilliant. I, I, you could tell when you watch the show, she thinks people out just we're all animals, yeah, and that's her view.

Speaker 3 She just thinks we're all monsters, and and we're all just kind of pigs in the mud, and that she's helping us with jam and honey. It's also very weirdly British, isn't it?

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, her little flowers sprinkled

Speaker 3 her garden. It's kind of oddly British for somebody who went over there and realized it was just a racist, horrible place.
There's all that jam and tea.

Speaker 1 And why is she using all the royal crown on her stationery?

Speaker 3 I thought she hated being a royal.

Speaker 1 I thought she wanted to eschew the royal life and come back to America.

Speaker 3 Well, it seems it's just very interesting. And seeing it all happen in real time fills me with just, it fills me with a recognition, like a,

Speaker 3 I recognize how, how much this was the plan the whole time. And you got to, it's got, you got to give your hats off to her.

Speaker 1 It's hard to enhance your brand that quickly. Like

Speaker 1 get your name out there in a unique way.

Speaker 3 No one needs honey

Speaker 3 right now. No.
No one needs jam. There's not one systemic racist problem that she's that like no one needs jam.

Speaker 3 There's not one person wrongly accused of something or whatever, doesn't have money for a lawyer that's looking for elderberries or wildflowers or whatever the hell she's talking about the only people that are concerned with this stuff are people like she lives in mary montecito that's so wealthy they're not even on earth anymore and it's a beautiful area it's a great area but they float around and they have tea and they pick flowers they live in a fairy tale she makes sun tea too yeah she makes sun tea and like we all have time to do yeah she just they kind of sit around in their backyards and they enjoy this and they smell lavender and stuff like that yeah and uh that's not how you're living in la right now.

Speaker 3 It's not how we're living. No,

Speaker 3 we're sitting by our doors with guns.

Speaker 3 Like normal people. Yeah, we're sitting by the door with a gun waiting for someone to come in.

Speaker 3 That's how we're living.

Speaker 3 And check the sun tea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No one's making honey. If you have honey in your house, you're using it as a weapon.

Speaker 1 You don't have a local beekeeper?

Speaker 3 No, there's no local beekeeper. There's no gardens.
They've all burned.

Speaker 3 Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, I have a treat for you because in addition to her new Netflix show,

Speaker 1 she has launched yet another podcast. Thank God.
This one is about

Speaker 1 founders.

Speaker 3 How did she say that? Is it all female founders? Yes. Please.

Speaker 1 I think it's all female founders.

Speaker 3 Is it female founders? Female founders, right?

Speaker 1 Professions of a female founder.

Speaker 3 God, what are they thinking about these female founders? Oh, here you go. What are they doing?

Speaker 1 She starts with herself because she now considers herself the founder.

Speaker 3 And it's hard to find. When you are married to a prince, how do you start a business?

Speaker 3 That's a real question because the struggle she had to go through being married to a prince and being one of the most famous people in the world, how do you start a business when you're rich and famous?

Speaker 1 Your castle's too small.

Speaker 3 It's hard.

Speaker 1 Your grandmother, your spouse's grandmother doesn't seem to really like you. He dies.
Yeah. I mean, like, your one greatest connection is now out.

Speaker 3 Thank God, because I want to know how this all happened. And I want to get into the mind of the female founder.

Speaker 1 Here we go. Here's, here's this founder discussing, I think.

Speaker 3 Remember when she pretended to like poor people? That lasted a few weeks. I know.

Speaker 1 I'm sex workers.

Speaker 3 I remember that with her inspo messages up in April.

Speaker 1 Here she is on her new podcast.

Speaker 15 Let's be honest, launching a business, it can be so overwhelming. Even with the best of teams,

Speaker 15 it'll keep you up at night.

Speaker 1 For example, a month ago, I was absolutely

Speaker 15 consumed with packaging.

Speaker 15 Boxes.

Speaker 15 That's all I could think about. And I would sit there doing the unboxing in my head.
Is there tissue paper? What about the packing peanuts? But they're biodegradable. And where does the sticker go?

Speaker 15 And hold on. And what size is the box is going to be? And no, that's not going to fit all the skews.
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 15 And then someone says, but you don't want to brand the outside of the box because of porch pirates.

Speaker 3 Had never heard that before.

Speaker 1 What's a porch pirate?

Speaker 15 And then I'm sitting there and I'm like, does any of this actually matter? Of course it matters. It matters at the beginning, but how much does it matter?

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I mean, it's,

Speaker 3 well, she's also, it's, you know, she's kept up at night because she's, you know, half the staff quit.

Speaker 1 That's right. They quit.
On any given day. She's not quite sure.

Speaker 3 On any given day, the staff will quit because she just, you know, launches into a tirade. And for whatever reason, they feel unsafe.

Speaker 1 She's been accused multiple times of being a bullying abuser.

Speaker 3 Well, she's throwing honey at people's heads and stuff. So she's kept up at night wondering about what lawsuits will

Speaker 3 when because of the abusive behavior towards the staff.

Speaker 1 I feel like that, didn't that sound bite just hit so many of the leftist boxes? Like, are they biodegradable? Yes. And what does the packaging be?

Speaker 3 Well, what I like about her, I actually, I've gone the other way now because now that she's coming out as a monster,

Speaker 3 I like, like, I'm actually on board now.

Speaker 3 I'm into it because now, by the way, she's no longer even, there's no longer even an attempt.

Speaker 3 It's such a thinly veiled attempt attempt to be this conscientious person who, you know, she's really just saying like, I'm a founder. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I'm a founder and I'm a big business tycoon and it's tough for me.

Speaker 1 Can I tell you, she's not the only extremely rich woman who, you know, in her case, it's questionable, but in a lot of these other women's cases,

Speaker 1 their husbands are multi-millionaires or billionaires. And then the women like open a charity or like give their money to somebody.
And then they're like, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm an entrepreneur.

Speaker 1 It's like, okay.

Speaker 3 I'm a founder. Look, I appreciate you.
I've connected people with jams. Right.
Like,

Speaker 1 I see that your husband made billions of dollars. Right.
The fact that you spent some of it doesn't make you a founder.

Speaker 3 Well, it's also she never cared. You know, it was all about, in the beginning, it was all about like unwinding the systems of oppression.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Remember that? That's done, didn't you know? Remember that? She saw that.

Speaker 3 Remember that? It was like she would go to like a third world country and there'd be a bunch of kids dancing and she'd take a photo with them.

Speaker 3 Now it seems much more about like she's looking at like Gwyneth Poucher, what Gwyneth Poucher did with her store. Yes.
Goop or whatever it's, I think it's goop. Goop.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I think she's looking at that and going, that's what she wants to be. She wants to be Martha Stewart.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Although what I found out after the fact was she launched her show with showing you how to make this one recipe. It's like one pot pasta.
You make it on the stove.

Speaker 1 And then everybody flooded Twitter with the fact that that

Speaker 1 apparently is a Martha Stewart recipe. Sure.
That's apparently very well known in Martha Stewart fan.

Speaker 1 So even the inaugural episode is cheating off of somebody else's.

Speaker 3 Well, I mean, you got to hand it to her. She knows that we don't have a memory.
Yes. The country doesn't have a memory.
We have a fatally short memory.

Speaker 3 And we're kind of tolerant of however people want to reintroduce themselves in the moment.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 3 So she understands America. I didn't know.
Better than I do, or maybe you do, because she gets it. We love the huckster.
We root for the huckster. Yes.
We root for kind of the criminal sometimes.

Speaker 3 And she's kind of assuming that role of going, this is who I am today. Right.

Speaker 3 I found my wave. I'm going to ride it.

Speaker 1 I've found my wave. Now, speaking of not having a memory, Gavin Newsom is out there.
He's out there. And you've got some thoughts about him.
Hold on.

Speaker 1 We have a clip that I want to show.

Speaker 1 This is from your show,

Speaker 1 not the special, but

Speaker 1 yeah, the podcast from March 36th.

Speaker 10 clearly copying me i had steve bannon on he had steve bannon on he's literally copying me the governor of california gavin news him now by the way we don't this is not what politicians should be doing is starting podcasts no one wanted this no one who's sitting in an ash heap in altadena wants him on a podcast they want him to run the state you just you have a job You have a job.

Speaker 10 It's the governor of California. That's a hard job, right? He keeps saying it is.
The state's very big. It's the seventh largest economy in the world, or whatever he's saying.

Speaker 10 How, in God's name, do you have the time to do a podcast? Can you imagine launching a podcast in the ash heap of your state? He's now doing a podcast. Is he gonna have ads? Is he gonna read ads?

Speaker 10 Is Gavin Newsom gonna read ads while people try to find housing in his state?

Speaker 1 That's such a good point. Yeah, he's totally copying you.

Speaker 3 Well, you know what it is? He

Speaker 3 watching him try and fail to be a human being is a very interesting thing.

Speaker 3 And that's what he's been kind of doing. You know, Gavin is an

Speaker 3 ambitious guy who thought he was going to run for president last time.

Speaker 3 It's clearly obvious to everybody. How many times did he say, I'm standing with Biden? He said it so many times.
It was like the lady doth protest too much.

Speaker 3 He clearly thought he was angling for that.

Speaker 3 He got passed over, okay, for an unpopular candidate who got trounced. He thinks he's coming back again

Speaker 3 and he's trying everything he can to appear like a human being. When you're so ambitious, Markle Newsome, it's the same type of person.
They just want the thing, whatever it is. They want the title.

Speaker 3 They want the status. They don't believe in anything.
Gavin Newsome doesn't believe in it. Megan Markle doesn't believe in anything.
So when you have

Speaker 3 people like that, their guiding principle is only ambition. Kamala Harris didn't believe in anything.
No. Say what you want about Donald Trump.
He said the same thing about tariffs for 30, 40 years.

Speaker 3 Yes. Okay.

Speaker 3 People like Kamala Harris or Gavin Newsom just want the thing. It's a vibes-based thing.
They want people to feel a certain way. They want to make people feel a certain way.

Speaker 1 So when you saw him say to Charlie Kirk,

Speaker 1 yeah, it's just, for me, me, it's a fairness issue about boys playing in girls' sports. Yeah.
You know, claiming that they're girls. It's just a fairness issue.
You know, I've got daughters.

Speaker 1 And then just this week, somebody asked him about it because they tried to push through a bill out in California to, you know, protect, and he it didn't go anywhere. They didn't protect girls.
No.

Speaker 1 And he's like, you know, I just, I just can't figure it out. I just, I tried to think about how to make him more fair.
I just can't figure it out.

Speaker 3 He goes, I just want to be president. That's all he wants to do.
It's really what he's saying. It's really what he wants to do.
He doesn't have a specific set of beliefs. He doesn't care.

Speaker 1 It doesn't mean anything to him. So he'll pander to anybody like

Speaker 1 if he were across from Donald Trump, you think he'd pander?

Speaker 3 Absolutely.

Speaker 3 Because the way that people like Gavin Newsom get far, the way that people like Kamala Harris get far, and there's a lot of Republicans, by the way, who get far the same way, is they don't have a fixed set of principles.

Speaker 3 Because if you have a fixed set of principles, Bernie Sanders, whatever you want to say about him, has a fixed set of principles.

Speaker 3 You know, for the most part, he's been saying a lot of the same things for 30 years.

Speaker 3 Now, that means that eventually someone comes around to you or you're out there in the cold. Now Gavin and Kamala, people like that, they don't ever want to be out in the cold.

Speaker 3 They constantly want to be in the rooms that matter. So you have to go with the flow.
When the world goes a certain way, you got to go with the world.

Speaker 3 So when Americans render a verdict on the biological men in women's sports and say, we don't want this, Gavin Newsom then has to move in that direction.

Speaker 3 But when he's in his own state, and he's asked about it and the time is to do something about it, he's constantly monitoring and going, is this the right thing to say here?

Speaker 3 Is this the right thing to say there? So

Speaker 3 he could try, but he's definitely trying. His popularity is plummeting.
That doesn't work anymore. That's my, I guess, thought about it.

Speaker 3 The way that politics has worked forever, which was Gavin Newsom's, Kamal Harris. It's been people.
Say whatever the hell you have to. Say whatever the hell you have to.

Speaker 3 Lindsey Graham is like a lot of times says whatever he has to do. Lindsey Graham's everywhere.
Right. He's everywhere.
These people don't care about anything.

Speaker 3 That's not working anymore because of the internet. You're able to immediately go, wait a minute, you said that last week.

Speaker 3 Where are you on this now?

Speaker 1 You're just a phony.

Speaker 3 You're a phony and you put together these

Speaker 3 compilations of people just being for it and against it and this and that. It doesn't work anymore.
And I think that's going, that's a major change.

Speaker 1 So one person who is the opposite of that, he's completely authentic in his weirdness, his greatness, his brilliance is Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Speaker 3 He's 100%.

Speaker 3 He feels the way he feels. Agree or disagree.
Yeah. He's 100% been saying the same things for 30 years.

Speaker 1 Even the Piccadillos. Even like, yeah, we cut off the head of a bear.
Right.

Speaker 3 Like whatever.

Speaker 1 Right. And also a whale.
Right.

Speaker 3 Right, right. It was a thing.

Speaker 1 And I used to be addicted to heroin. Right.

Speaker 3 You know, right.

Speaker 1 Like, he's not trying to impress you or downplay anything he's done. No.

Speaker 1 And so I know that you became his fan and his friend.

Speaker 3 Yes, I'm friends with him. I got it.

Speaker 1 He's a good dude. Have you done social things with him?

Speaker 3 Yeah, him and his wife are great. Cheryl's great.

Speaker 1 What have you guys done together? How does that go?

Speaker 3 You've gone to dinner a few times. I went to their compound on the 4th of July, which was really cool to see.
It's a big part of American history.

Speaker 1 The Kennedy compound?

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Kenny compound? Yeah, for an Irish Catholic guy.
That's a pretty good.

Speaker 1 Did anybody die? Or it was good?

Speaker 3 I mean, no, no one died, thankfully. But they do dangerous activities.
It's not, like, you can see how it happens. Yeah.
Yeah, you can see the blood. They're adrenaline junkies.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 They're very much.

Speaker 1 Did you meet Schlossberg, the son, the grandson of JFK? Because he seems to be a little

Speaker 3 opposite sides of everything. Don't worry about that.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah.
No, they seem very opposite. Yeah.
So he was there and the whole family was there because he's persona non-grash.

Speaker 3 He was not there. I actually went with his kids.
He wasn't there. Him and Cheryl weren't there that weekend.
They were somewhere else, but they could have been there.

Speaker 3 I think that, like, listen, it's a family. They disagree about stuff.
It's a high-stakes family. They disagree about a lot of stuff.
And it's very public. But I think at the end of the day,

Speaker 3 it is a family and it's an

Speaker 3 important family in terms of the history of America.

Speaker 1 So when you have, because I don't know him like that. I've supported him, but I don't know him personally like that.
So when you have dinner with RFKJ, does he always talk policy and history?

Speaker 3 He talks a lot about that stuff and he's very, very passionate about it. And again, you don't get the vibe that this is someone angling to be famous.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's not why.

Speaker 3 He genuinely helped him. That's not why he like, you know, went after polluters forever when that was incredibly unpopular.

Speaker 3 That's not why he talked about vaccines during the pandemic when that was incredibly unpopular. He feels the way he feels.
And I think that the only way to get out of the

Speaker 3 climate we're in in America in the sense of like, we need people who have genuine convictions.

Speaker 3 And they can debate about them and they can argue about them, but we need people with genuine convictions. And he has genuine convictions.

Speaker 1 How do you think Cheryl is surviving in the Hollywood crowd?

Speaker 3 I think she's an incredibly funny, smart, talented person who's respected in her own right as a great actress, great comedic actress. I think she has real friends and real relationships.
And

Speaker 3 I think that that's also changing. A lot of people in that state and in that business are also starting to moderate a little bit because I think they're starting to see that

Speaker 3 you know, they have drifted far from the mainstream of American life.

Speaker 3 And I think they're starting to come back.

Speaker 1 And what he's saying is, like, maha is basically,

Speaker 1 let's try to help make the country safer, the kids healthier, the moms and dads healthier.

Speaker 1 He just said, this is in our AM update today. He wants to find a cure or a diagnosis.
No, the cause of autism by September.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It feels like a moonshot, right? It's like we've been trying to get it.

Speaker 1 Like, who would be against that?

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 I think

Speaker 3 the problem with everything now is that

Speaker 3 people have a visceral reaction to

Speaker 3 certain people. Meaning, like

Speaker 3 for whatever reason, there are certain people, like Steve Bannon, Steve Bannon on my show. I had liberals calling me going,

Speaker 3 oh my God,

Speaker 3 I agree with Steve Bannon. Yes.
And they go, that's what happens if you start listening to Steve Bannon. And you go, wow, this guy made a lot of great points.
But there are certain people

Speaker 3 who said, I cannot believe you. I will never listen.
This guy's a white supremacist. He's a not.
And I go that he's none of that.

Speaker 3 Listening to the episode. So there's people that I think are not listening.
And there are people that disagree with RFK too. And that's fine.

Speaker 3 There's people that have principled disagreements with RFK and go, I think you're wrong.

Speaker 1 But you know, there's so many people on the left who are like. I'm against you.
Team Trump. Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's a no.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 1 And so I just wonder, you know, she's probably surviving because she's married to Bobby and not Donald. You know, like,

Speaker 3 yeah

Speaker 3 i think she's barf kj could be your gateway drug i think trump is the real show you know listen your real friends become a parent in these situations and i'm sure she knows who they are yeah well in hollywood it's always hard isn't it it's tough what you were saying about people have very strong feelings about people My husband saw some article.

Speaker 1 I don't know if I got fed to him, and it was about the height of our children. Somebody did an article online about the height of our children.
Yeah. It was all messed up.

Speaker 1 It had all sort of fake facts about my kids. We don't show our kids on the air

Speaker 1 or on the internet at all. But

Speaker 1 so he forwarded it, and we were looking at it. It was kind of funny, speculating about the height and how they get so tall.
Like we gave him HGH, which we didn't, they just have a tall father.

Speaker 1 It's hilarious.

Speaker 1 And there was a line in there saying, Megan Kelly, who many people can't stand. And then it was...

Speaker 1 Like, wow, that seemed unnecessary. Yeah.

Speaker 3 For an article about the children's height. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow, that was kind of below the belt.

Speaker 3 Hilarious.

Speaker 1 Because of of the territory.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 And certainly, if you're a lightning rod in the media, in politics, you know, you got to be able to take it. And so I think Cheryl went from a life of being like pretty much beloved by everybody.

Speaker 1 She wasn't controversial.

Speaker 3 I think she disagrees with some of his stuff, right? I don't think they're doing everything.

Speaker 3 I think, like everybody else, nobody agrees with everybody on everything. I think it's fine.
to have a position where you go, I think RFK is right here and wrong here.

Speaker 3 That's how most people feel about most people. Yeah.
Right. So I think that's totally okay.

Speaker 3 I think when you go, he's a crackpot, he's a crank, he's completely insane, and you dismiss everything he says, even though you agree with some of it.

Speaker 3 Like, I don't disagree with everything Megan Markle says. I like jam.

Speaker 3 So I think, you know, everybody has to, you know, like,

Speaker 3 you know, I think you take it ish about it.

Speaker 1 That's how I felt. There are some things I agree with Joe Biden on, believe it or not.
Like chocolate, chocolate, chip, ice cream is the best.

Speaker 3 Yes, a thousand percent. It was the same.
A thousand per person. But he was wrong about everything.
The withdrawal from Afghanistan was sloppy and a mess. I agreed it was time to go, not in that way.

Speaker 3 So I said, we shouldn't be there. Good for him.
The withdrawal was a mess.

Speaker 3 But the instinct of getting our troops out of a 20-year thing.

Speaker 1 I gave him very little credit for that. I have to be honest, because that was Trump's idea.
Trump was

Speaker 3 holding it. Trump should have done it.
And I think maybe this Trump would have done it. But I think last time he didn't do it.

Speaker 1 How do you, do you like Trump? Are you a Trump supporter?

Speaker 3 I think that there's things I really like about him and there's things that I find a little bit,

Speaker 3 you know, I'm not as in love with.

Speaker 1 He's controversial.

Speaker 3 Well, yeah, I'm not as in love with all of the things, but I think he understands a lot of the problems. And I think that, you know, it depends on, I don't want to go to war with Iran.
Yep.

Speaker 3 This is the thing that I disagree with. I think there's a a ratcheting up of this, it feels like.

Speaker 1 I remember the last time we spoke, you said something like, somehow they reeled me into like, we're just talking politics. Next thing I know, I'm giving my opinion on whether we should be in Iraq.

Speaker 1 Like, what do I do?

Speaker 3 I know, I know, I remember that. Yeah, I just really like his idea of no wars.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Uh, having a border, uh, trying to restore fairness in an economy, trying to get a middle class back.

Speaker 3 Um, if he goes down those roads, I think he'll have a great presidency. If he gets bogged down with a conflict in Iran

Speaker 3 and kind of you know a domestic agenda that is a little chaotic where it's

Speaker 3 streamlined I think the tariffs

Speaker 3 instinct I think it's the right instinct I'm not an economist but I do think the right

Speaker 1 we're what 37 trillion in the hole oh wait we have this this you can went viral in this clip this is you um speaking to some of this on your show uh from april 5th here's 34.

Speaker 10 charlie takes a big buyout okay because a multinational corporation like unilever buys the chocolate factory and they move all of the jobs offshore he didn't even like chocolate he just liked going to orgies on a yacht in international waters he comes back he wipes the blood off himself from just throwing a woman over a boat and they said Charlie, why did you sell the factory?

Speaker 10 Why are all the umpalumpas on fentanyl? And Charlie says, it's a shame how trans people are treated in this country.

Speaker 10 And they go, what?

Speaker 10 And it almost feels like Charlie himself is using some of this to get people's mind off the fact that he sold his chocolate factory to a global multinational conglomerate who's offshored all of the jobs.

Speaker 10 Now we say to the umpalumpas, I hope you got your Bitcoin. No, no, no, no, no.
I'm trying to make the chocolate bar. Oh, we don't do that here anymore.
Go work at Panera. So that's what America is.

Speaker 10 It's an umpa loompa at Panera.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 I think that

Speaker 3 the American working class has been thrown aside by both parties.

Speaker 3 And I think that people in this country that are fortunate can't fully understand

Speaker 3 the desperation in a lot of parts of the country that have been ignored. And I think a lot of that has to do with the deindustrialization of the country.
Now,

Speaker 3 there's going to be periods of adjustment. There's going to be ugliness.
There's going to be, you know, but I think the country is more than an economic zone.

Speaker 3 I don't think you could see it as just a place to make money. I think you have to see it as a place where you have a culture.
A country is something where you have to go to war to protect, right?

Speaker 3 You know, I don't think people can just see it as a place where there are financial opportunities yeah we got a roaring market yeah right so I think that obviously it's important that people have a good standard of living that they have money you know we all want those things but I also think there has to be some attention paid to

Speaker 3 large swaths of the country that are not

Speaker 1 you know sharing in any of the prosperity of the last you know 20 to 30 years you know it's like I've heard you talk about how like in 20 years the Democrats became Republicans and the Republicans became the Democrats Right.

Speaker 1 And it's really so true in so many ways because you look at like the Democrats used to talk like that.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But it got changed into

Speaker 1 all they want to do is create one big social safety net. It's just giveaways, government giveaways.
You know, like, oh, you know, you're a single mother. Here's another check.
Right.

Speaker 1 As opposed to Trump's approach, which seems to be, let me change the whole environment around you so you have more working opportunities. Let me lighten your tax burden if you're a waitress.
Right.

Speaker 1 You know, as opposed to just like, let me dump a bunch of like free free phones or goodies on you so that you'll keep working.

Speaker 3 Well, the Democratic Party was purchased by Wall Street. And Wall Street has ideas about how the way the country should function.
Wall Street wants endless supply of cheap labor.

Speaker 3 They want open borders. The Koch brothers loved open borders.
It was because it was an endless supply of cheap labor. It broke the back of the working class.
It destroyed unions. And it

Speaker 3 provided companies with low wage labor so that their profits went up. None of those profits were shared with their workers.

Speaker 1 But they they got bigger mansions at the top.

Speaker 3 But they got bigger mansions at the top. And the Democratic Party became completely purchased by Wall Street.

Speaker 3 And then identity politics is then kind of manifested as a way to convince people that actually they are interested in changing things. But by changing things, they don't mean giving you health care.

Speaker 3 They mean giving you like a trans Batman.

Speaker 3 That's what they're doing. Right.

Speaker 1 So they're basically Snow White, who hates Snow White.

Speaker 3 The Snow White, who's not into it, right? Who thinks it's like some type of like rape fantasy or something, like it's a children's book.

Speaker 3 But, you know, it becomes a great, you know, there's a great quote, and it's for things to stay the same, they must change or something of that nature. You know, things must change to stay the same.

Speaker 3 What the Democratic Party has become as is a party that says, we're going to give you a female CEO, but we're not going to give you any bit

Speaker 3 more,

Speaker 3 you know, of a pathway to a life

Speaker 3 so we're gonna give you

Speaker 3 better feel good about the fact you better feel good about the fact that there's progress in this very aesthetic area that doesn't matter really

Speaker 3 to your life

Speaker 3 other than to say well that's nice you know yeah but most people are concerned with the financial reality of their own family What do you make of, as a comedian, of Trump and his comedy skills?

Speaker 3 He's the funniest politician ever. And I think a lot of it is he doesn't really know that he's being funny.
I think he's just being honest in his way. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 3 So like he's just calling things the way he sees it. He's really good at it.
And, you know, and it doesn't mean honest in the global sense because he'll

Speaker 3 be true. No politician is.
But when he says things

Speaker 3 that are funny, I think it's because people are not used to hearing that from a politician.

Speaker 1 The best example is the one where he gave the deposition in the E. Jean Carroll case against him.
And the lawyer said, did you say it's okay when you're a celebrity to grab him by the P-word? Yeah.

Speaker 1 When you're a celebrity, they let you do it. And he said, yes, because, you know, for thousands of years, that's just been the way it is, unfortunately, or fortunately.

Speaker 3 It's just him. No, he's what makes him effective is that he understands that there's a way that you can communicate that whether the people don't stop listening.
Yes. That's a big part of it.

Speaker 3 So many politicians, you turn them off.

Speaker 1 Very hard to turn out when Trump's on.

Speaker 3 You will never turn him off. Right? You don't know where it's going.
I've said I'm going to watch 10 minutes of his speech and it's an hour and a half. Yes.
And I watched the whole thing. Yes.

Speaker 3 Because there's a musicality too. It's like jazz.
He comes in and out and he goes from this thing to that thing and it's very much a stream of consciousness.

Speaker 1 Yes, he did the EO on the faucets, making showers great again, you know, like the free flow of water. And he's talking about keeping his beautiful hair.
He likes to wash, shampoo his beautiful hair.

Speaker 3 But he also doesn't patronize people.

Speaker 3 Like I remember, like you had Anna Dashra, and they brought up a great point of like, he shows up to this rally late and he complained about his private plane that it wasn't working.

Speaker 3 And he goes, they screw you. They keep you in the runway.
He's not pretending

Speaker 3 that he can empathize fully with someone who's, you know, in a different financial situation. He's saying, this is who I am.
This is the way I see it.

Speaker 3 There's an authenticity to it, even though people hate it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Nor is he running around calling himself a founder.
People hate it.

Speaker 3 As a founder, he's right.

Speaker 1 I have some experience with this. I think people hate it.

Speaker 3 I think there's a snobbery to it where people look at him and go, we don't like that he represents America.

Speaker 3 You know, we don't like that.

Speaker 1 Not those, not that. Yeah, right.

Speaker 3 We'd rather someone from Harvard, even though he went to a grade school, but we'd rather someone who understands that there's a certain language that we all speak and he doesn't speak it.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 you were in Austin, Texas. Yeah.
Now you're in LA.

Speaker 3 I'm back and forth between New York, where I grew up, and then L.A. and Austin, too, sometimes.

Speaker 1 In the new special, again, it's called I'm Your Mother. It's on Netflix starting, it hits April 15th.

Speaker 3 April 15th. April 15th, Tax Day.

Speaker 1 Thank you. You can remember.
This is how you will, this will be your soothing balm on tax day. Yes.
You can watch I'm Your Mother.

Speaker 3 You're getting beaten up on Tax Day.

Speaker 1 With Tim Dylan.

Speaker 3 Launch a jam brand.

Speaker 1 And you do a bit on LA and what a mess it is in so many ways, including homelessness. Let's watch a little bit of that in SOT 28.

Speaker 3 The LA City Council has given up. This is how much they've given up.
I swear to God, they considered giving you a tax credit if you opened your house

Speaker 3 to a homeless person.

Speaker 3 I swear to God, they were like, You got a house.

Speaker 3 What are we even talking about?

Speaker 14 You hate taxes, right? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, meet your son.

Speaker 3 He's 38 years old.

Speaker 14 He loves fentanyl.

Speaker 10 Hug your boss.

Speaker 3 Hug your boss. Did you do it?

Speaker 1 Were you tempted?

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, I was. You know, part of the thing is that the solutions that are proposed are always as insane as the problem in L.A.

Speaker 3 So whenever they started thinking about that, they go, we could just give people tax credits to move people into their house that, you know, are human. What could possibly possibly go wrong?

Speaker 3 So So you have a situation where, you know,

Speaker 3 it really is. It's a beautiful state.

Speaker 3 It's an important place, you know, and

Speaker 3 it's like run by complete lunatics. Yeah, absolutely.
Complete lunatics.

Speaker 1 So when I hear you talk about that and Gavin Newsom, I don't know, would you ever consider throwing your own hat in the ring?

Speaker 3 Well, not at the moment, but I could get bored.

Speaker 3 And if I get bored, then perhaps political campaigns do seem fun. Here's what doesn't seem fun, governing.
Yeah, that's why Gavin's doing what we're doing. Seems tough.
Right?

Speaker 1 He's like, this is boring.

Speaker 3 He's trying to do this. Yeah.
It seems fun to run.

Speaker 3 Get on, everyone, get on the bus. Yeah.
World drinking coffee. The polls are in.
Get them. You know, that seems fun.
Once you get in there

Speaker 3 and you then have to figure out a way to fix this, it becomes a real problem. And you're a lot of research.
I was in downtown LA the other night. There's a nice place and I was there.

Speaker 3 Me and my friend have one of the best restaurants in LA, it's downtown. And we went to dinner and we're sitting there.
And, you know, they always try to downplay it.

Speaker 3 You know, him and his wife are like, there's pockets. It's fine.
There's pockets. And then in the middle of the street, there was a woman just with a blanket over her going like this.

Speaker 3 And the blankets moving and she's screaming. And I said, what's this? And they go, oh, well, she's there all the time.
And I go, oh, so it's really just getting people used to a certain level

Speaker 3 of decay. And And that's really what it is.
It's just, you just explain it away. You go, oh, that woman, she's, and then my friend goes, well, the problem is it's a meth town.
Oh, God.

Speaker 3 And he goes, if they were on heroin, they'd sleep, but they're on meth, so they start fires. And then he goes,

Speaker 3 he goes, like this, let's get the scallops. They're great.
So that's how normalized hell has become. Yeah.
We've normalized hell. We've normalized decay.
And that's how bad it's gotten.

Speaker 3 And people just don't care.

Speaker 1 I got 39 seconds to the heart out. Again, the special,

Speaker 1 I'm Your Mother. Yes.
In 30 seconds, why is it called that?

Speaker 3 Well, because anyone can be anything now. So if I'm going to orient myself in this world, I'd like to do it as your mother.
Just because. Because your mother gets to tell you what to do.

Speaker 3 and be loud and fat and nasty.

Speaker 1 And we still love her.

Speaker 3 And we have to love mom.

Speaker 1 Tim Dylan, we definitely love it. Don't forget, okay, it's called I'm Your Mother.
It's on Netflix. Next week, you will laugh.
I don't think you'll cry, but you'll fall even more in love with Tim.

Speaker 1 It's great to see you.

Speaker 3 Thank you again. It's a pleasure.
I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 Check it out. Have a great weekend, everyone.

Speaker 1 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

Speaker 1 As Americans are getting inspired to make their health and fitness a priority, let me tell you about Don and the team at Jacked Up Fitness, a great American company.

Speaker 1 Their commercial-grade Power Rack Pro has everything you need to get a full body workout from home.

Speaker 1 The cable crossover system and integrated weight stacks allow you to do hundreds of exercises, basically everything you can do at the gym.

Speaker 1 With everyone's busy schedule, having one of these commercial-grade all-in-one Power Rack Pros right in your own home can be a game changer. And if you are new to strength training, don't worry.

Speaker 1 Jacked Up Fitness offers the Get Jacked Up program free of charge. Led by celebrity fitness trainers Kim Lyons of The Biggest Loser and Clark Bartram, the program has full-body video-based workouts.

Speaker 1 You simply press play and you follow along. You get started on your fitness journey today for free.
Go to getjackedup.com and sign up to access the free program.

Speaker 1 And when you're ready to order your own Power Rack Pro, save 10% by using my promo code MK. No more excuses.
Let's all get in the best shape of our lives. Go to getjackedup.com.

Speaker 4 Hey guys, Joel Kimbooster here with a very exciting announcement that I am the newest host of the podcast Bad Dates.

Speaker 4 I am so excited to be here and sharing all the wildest, most chaotic, and iconic Bad Date stories with you.

Speaker 4 I'll be joined by friends like Peppermint, Scott Thompson, Casey Wilson, Ron Funches, and MJ Rodriguez, and we'll hear all about their most notorious bad dates.

Speaker 4 It'll make you laugh, cry, cringe, and maybe make you feel a little better about your own dating life. You don't want to miss it.

Speaker 4 Listen to bad dates by subscribing to SiriusXM Podcast Plus on Apple Podcasts or listening wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 16 Extra value meals are back. That means 10 tender juicy McNuggets and medium fries and a drink are just $8

Speaker 2 only at McDonald's. For limited time only, prices and participation may vary.

Speaker 11 Prices may be higher in in Hawaii, Alaska, and California, and for delivery.