Bryan Kohberger's Explosive Sentencing: Roommates Speak Out, Families Give Victim Statements, with Howard Blum, Phil Holloway, and Matt Murphy | Ep. 1114

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Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show starting today at a special time.

It's 11 o'clock Eastern and a big, big day for True Crime and the show with the sentencing of Brian Kohlberger, which we will be bringing to you live.

They are still filing into the courtroom.

At this moment, we expect the proceedings to get underway.

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I want to get to the Kohlberger sentencing now joining me as we await the proceedings to get underway.

Howard Bloom, author of When the Night Comes Falling, and Phil Holloway, he's also here with us, along with Matt Murphy, who will join me in just a minute.

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guys thanks so much for being here so we're awaiting the start of this we've been watching the families file in all morning and you can only imagine what a heavy day this is for the poor family members who now already know what brian kohberger's fate is going to be but probably feel howard like they had like they owe it to their loved ones to be their voice today.

I mean, they do feel a sense of duty.

This is their last public chance to share how they're feeling, to tell the world how they feel about even this plea agreement, and they're going to take advantage of it.

I know I've talked with one of the family members, and they've put a lot of time and a lot of energy into crafting their statements.

Yes, so and one of the things, one of the surprises I had this morning, sticking with you on this, Howard, is that Steve Gonsalves is there, there, Kaylee's dad.

And he had suggested earlier on he was not going to go.

And I don't know whether he's planning on speaking.

I think that his other daughter is going to speak, but he did show up today and he's sort of, in a way, been the most visible family member on this thing from the start.

Well, I know his family contacted me about a week ago, and we've had some disagreements over the course of this whole thing, but now they just want to focus on the facts.

And they're trying to find out, and this is extremely poignant, is that they're asking, how many times was Kayleigh stabbed?

They want to know that.

They have a number 54, and they want to say something that's accurate, and they can't get any information from the coroner.

And that's sort of the predicament they're in.

And that's what this settlement

deal will keep them in this predicament.

They won't get the answers they will need, not even to basic questions.

What has to, how many times was my daughter stabbed?

How can they not know that?

Why is that not released from the coroner?

The coroner will not tell them that.

They're calling me to try to find that out.

That's how desperate they are.

And your heart goes out to them.

I mean, at one point, Steve Gonsalves said early on, you send your daughter off to college and she comes back to you in a box.

How do you live with this?

This poor man, Phil, he and the other family member, we understand Ethan Chapin's parents will not be there.

They don't see any point.

The mother is like the most pulled together person you've ever seen in the wake of a tragedy.

I was watching her on this

new documentary that just hit Amazon Prime on the Idaho 4.

And she's very, I mean, she's remarkably composed.

My hat goes off to her, but she was basically saying, we don't see the point.

I think the rest of the family members will be there and will speak.

And just

what a huge responsibility they must feel, right?

Because it's like the victims can't speak and this prosecutor has failed to speak for them.

You know, Megan, I've been very

critical of how,

not necessarily how the prosecution has handled their case presentation or how they've handled court, but I've been critical and I remain critical

as to how they have dealt with these families.

You know, the issue of how many times someone was stabbed, I mean, that should have been information provided to the family long ago.

They should not have to be begging the coroner to get it right now, here, right on the eve of sentencing.

The prosecution should have shared as much as they possibly could with them

previously.

And certainly now that the gag order has been lifted, the family should not be treated this way.

And in fact, I am of the belief that we should not have had this plea deal to take

the table.

They're starting, so we don't want to miss that.

let's dip in yep

mr.

Hurwitz mr.

Nye and Ms.

Allen

this is the time set for sentencing in this case

the defendant previously entered a plea of guilty to four counts of first-degree murder and one count of felony burglary.

In exchange, the parties stipulated to recommend a sentence consisting of on burglary 10 years fixed on each of the four counts first-degree murder life

fixed.

The parties waived a pre-sentence investigation.

To my understanding, neither party submitted a sentencing memorandum or other materials for the court.

The court is familiar with the file and the evidence submitted previously

by the parties as it has reviewed them throughout the case and in anticipation of trial.

Is there any legal cause why

sentence should not be imposed at this time?

No, Your Honor.

Does the state

before

impact statements and arguments wish to present evidence today?

Your Honor, the state does not intend to present evidence in a documentary sense.

We have provided the court through the clerk with photographs that we would like to use during the course of our sentencing arguments.

Sure.

All right.

Thank you.

But no testimony other than impact statements.

That's correct, Your Honor.

All right.

So with that, let's start with impact statements.

Ms.

Jennings will be introducing the.

In my understanding, just so I'm clear, I indicated through the trial court administrator that we needed to see

if

any of the victims wish to have the camera not running

an audio only.

And my understanding is all of them indicated they are fine with the video.

Is that correct?

Yes, Your Honor, that's correct.

Very well.

Go ahead, students.

Your Honor, the first, and we're taking these in the order, victim impact statements, in the order that the charges were listed in the indictment.

The first charge being burglary.

So we

will have Bethany Funka's statement, and she has asked that her friend Emily Allant read that statement.

All right, any objection to that?

All right, very well.

Thank you, Your Honor.

I'll be speaking on behalf of Bethany, and so, yeah, here it reads.

My name is Bethany Funk, and I was roommates with Maddie, Kaylee, Xana, and Ethan.

I not only lost some of my best friends, but I also lost a sister.

Never in a million years would I have

would I have thought that something like this would have happened to my closest friends, I thought that we were going to wake up and go upstairs, see them and tell them how they had scared us and that

they were going to tease us about how we are constantly scaredy cats.

I make jokes about it as we would go to Taco Bell like always.

But sadly, that is not what happened and what turned out to be my worst nightmare.

When I first woke up that morning, I had no idea what happened.

I woke up around seven with a terrible toothache, so I called my dad, who is a dentist, and he asked what I should do.

He told me to take Advil, so I did, and I went back to sleep.

I was still out of it and still didn't know what happened.

If I had known, I of course would have called 911 right away.

I still carry so much regret and guilt for not knowing what had happened and not calling right away.

Even though I understand it wouldn't have changed anything, not even if the paramedics had been right outside the door.

I was so frantic that morning and scared to death, not knowing what had happened.

And when I made the 911 call, I couldn't even get out the words.

And from then on, I don't remember a thing.

It was like my brain wiped that whole memory.

That was the worst day of my life.

And I I know it always will be.

While I was still in shock, trying to process the fact that my friends were truly gone, I had been attacked by the public.

I was grieving, numb, and unsure of what had happened was even real.

And at the same time,

I was getting flooded with death threats.

and hateful messages from people who did not know me at all or know the dynamic of our friendship.

Social media made it so much worse and strangers made up stories to entertain themselves.

The media harassed not just me but also my family.

People showed up at our house.

They called my phone, my parents' phones, other family members' phones, and we were chased while I was still trying to survive emotionally and grieve the loss of my friends.

I hated and still hate that they are gone, but for some reason, I am still here and I got to live.

I still think about this every day.

Why me?

Why did I get to live and not them?

For the longest time I could not even look at their families without feeling sick with guilt.

I did not know what to say or what to do.

I was terrified that my presence just made their pain worse and I was still here when their kid, their siblings and their friends, their loved ones should have been here instead.

After everything happened, I was afraid to go into my own backyard or alone in in my house.

I was scared that the person who did this would come for me next.

I was always scared that the media would try to catch me at any moment of any day,

even when I was just walking around my house.

I made my parents close all the blinds during the day so no one could see me, even in the slightest chance.

I barely left the house, and when I did, I made sure I was never alone.

I slept in my parents' room for almost a year.

I made them double lock every door, set an alarm,

and still check everywhere in the room just in case someone was hiding.

And I still check my room every night before, and I double lock it.

I have not slept through a single night since this happened.

I constantly wake up in panics, terrified.

Someone is breaking in, or someone is here to hurt me, or I'm about to lose someone else that I love.

The fear never really leaves.

For a long time, I could barely get out of bed, but one day I realized I have to live for them.

They did not get the chance to keep living, but I do, and I will not take that for granted.

So now every day I remind myself to live for them, and everything I do,

I do it with them in mind.

I am still scared to go out in public, but I force myself to do things because I know that they would want me to keep living my life to the fullest.

I am beyond blessed to still be be here, and I refuse to take that for granted when they did not get a chance.

Our house was not just a house, it was a home.

It was where we laughed till we couldn't breathe, make meals, did crafts, binge-watch reality shows, played games, and spent lazy days on the couch.

It was movie nights, wine nights, morning debriefs, pranks, hot chocolate, cookies, and warmth.

I will cherish those memories forever, and I will not let what happened erase how special our home was or how much those memories meant to me.

Now I would like to share some bits and pieces of who they were

as people and some of the memories that we shared.

One of my favorite memories was Halloween, and we all went to Sigma Chi.

But instead of partying, we just sat in an apartment talking and laughing all night long.

I do not think I've ever laughed that hard in my life.

We did not care about the party.

We were just happy to be with each other.

Xanna was one in a million.

She was the life of the party.

But she was also the kindest and funniest person I knew.

Everyone loved her because she made everyone feel so loved.

She was just someone you always wanted to be around no matter the circumstance.

One of my favorite days with Xana was when she laid on the couch, when we laid on the couch together all day watching movies and snacking.

Or when she, Maddie, and I would go and get Margarita's chips and salsa.

She would also light up a room with her presence alone.

Kaylee had the most beautiful radiant smile.

And she was so kind, but also one of the funniest people I've ever known.

She loved playing little pranks.

And she always had us laughing so hard that we could not breathe.

She was so full of energy and life.

I really believed that she could have ruled the world if she wanted to and she would have been America's sweetheart.

Ethan was the sweetest, most genuine guy.

He was always smiling and always making other people smile too.

Ethan was the kind of person you wanted around.

He was so kind and easy to talk to.

and just so fun.

And the way he cared for Xanna was truly something to admire.

And really really was proof that storybook love and true romances really do exist.

It was not only obvious to me, but everyone that was around Ethan and Xana that they were absolute soulmates.

Maddie was not only one of my best friends, but she was the older sister I would have always wanted.

There was no one I looked up to.

or admired more than Maddie.

She was truly a ray of sunshine and everyone was drawn to her.

She was so kind, loving, funny, fun, and passionate.

She had the sweetest soul and wanted nothing but the best for everyone

and to love and show love to everyone.

She took me under her wing and always made me feel so safe and included and above all

loved and valued.

She never failed to make me laugh or put a smile in my face.

Still to this day, I am beyond grateful that she chose me to be her sorority little, and I thank God every day that I not only got to know her, but had her as one of my best friends.

Honestly, I cannot pinpoint one favorite memory with Maddie because I have so many, and this would be a very long read if I did.

But if some little memories with her that I cherish is when the two of us made a nice dinner and split some wine, or when we would binge-watch Jersey Shore or Summer House.

When we came up with a whole dance routine on Halloween and danced and sang all night like no one was watching.

All the late night walks home from going out and just little shopping trips and so much more.

I am beyond blessed that I had the chance to know each and every one of them.

They changed my life in ways I would have never put into words.

I hope that they are remembered for who they are and not what happened to them because who they are were so beautiful and they deserve to be remembered in the highest way.

My heart breaks every time I go to text one of them or how badly I wish I could see and hang out with them.

And then I remember I cannot.

I will never be able to again.

But I still talk to them in my prayers every single night, and I always will.

I wish more than anything I could hug them one last time.

And I wish I could tell them how much I love them.

And even though I cannot, I still tell them every night

I will keep living for them as long as I am lucky enough to still be here.

And they were all truly one of a kind, and they will be in our hearts forever always.

Thank you.

And please convey to

Bethany my appreciation for her courage.

And I hope that she heals.

Next is Dylan Mortenson.

We're asking for some accommodations for Miss Mortensen and that she be allowed to sit in my seat.

Sure.

Dylan, just take your time, all right.

Sorry, I got it.

Thank you, Your Honor.

What happened that night changed everything

because of him for beautiful,

genuine,

compassionate people

were taken from this world for no reason.

He didn't just take their lives.

He took the light they carried into every room.

He took away how they made everyone feel safe.

loved and full of joy.

He took away the ability for me to tell them that I love them and that I'm so proud of them.

He took away who they were becoming and the futures they were going to have.

He took away birthdays, graduations,

celebrations,

and all the memories that we were supposed to make.

All of it is gone.

And all the people who love them are just left to carry that weight forever.

He didn't just take them from the world.

He took them from me.

My friends.

My people who felt like my home.

The people I looked up to and adored more than anyone.

He took away my ability to trust the world around me.

What he did shattered me in places I didn't know could break.

I was barely 19 when he did this.

We had just celebrated my birthday at the end of September.

I should have been figuring out who I was.

I should have been having the college experience and starting to establish my future.

Instead,

I was forced to learn how to survive the unimaginable.

I couldn't be alone.

I had to sleep in my mom's bed because I was too terrified to close my eyes.

Terrified that if I blinked, someone might be there.

I made escape plans everywhere I went.

If something happens, how do I get out?

What can I use to defend myself?

Who can help?

Then there were the panic attacks.

The guy that slammed into me like a tsunami out of nowhere.

I can't breathe.

I can't think.

I can't stop shaking.

All I can do is scream because the emotional pain and the grief is too much to handle and my chest feels like it's caping in.

Sometimes I drop to the floor with my heart racing,

convinced something is very wrong.

It's far beyond anxiety.

It's my body reliving everything over and over again.

My nervous system never got the message that it is over, and it won't let me forget what he did to them.

People call me strong.

They say I'm a survivor, but they don't see what my new reality looks like.

They don't see the panic attacks, the hypervigilance, the exhaustion, the way I scan every room I enter.

the way I flinch at sudden sounds.

They don't know how heavy it is to carry so much pain and still still be expected to keep going, and that's because of him.

He still parts at me, I may never get back.

He took the version of me who didn't constantly ask.

What if it happens again?

What if next time I don't survive?

He may have shattered parts of me,

but I'm still putting myself back together.

Piece by piece, I'm learning how to live in this new version of life.

It is not easy.

It hurts, but I'm still trying.

Still trying, and I'm not trying just for me.

I'm trying for them, my friends.

About a year ago, I had a dream about them.

I got to say goodbye.

I told them I won't be able to see you again, so I need to tell you goodbye.

They all kept asking why, and all I could say was I can't tell you, but I have to.

When I woke up, I felt shattered and heartbroken, but also strangely grateful.

Like maybe in some way that dream gave us the goodbye we never got.

Still no dream can replace them.

and no goodbye will ever feel finished.

He is a hollow vessel, something less than human,

a body without empathy, without remorse.

He chose destruction.

He chose evil.

He feels nothing.

He tried to take everything from me.

My friends, my safety, my identity, my future.

He took their lives.

But I will continue trying to be like them to make them proud.

Living is how I honor them.

Speaking today is to help me find some sort of justice for them

and I will never let him take that from me.

He may have taken so much from me but he will never get to take my voice.

He will never take the memories I had with them.

He will never erase the love we shared.

the laughs we had, or the way they made me feel seen and whole.

Those things are mine.

They are sacred.

And he will never touch them.

I get to feel sadness.

I get to feel rage.

I get to feel joy even when it's hard.

I get to feel love even when it hurts.

I get to live.

And while I will still live with this pain, at least I get to live my life.

He will stay here, empty, forgotten, and powerless.

John, thank you so much for your courage.

I appreciate it.

Next, we have members from the Madison Mogan family.

First would be Scott Laramie, Madison Mogan's stepfather.

Standing by, home is Karen Laramie,

thank you, Your Honor.

My name is Scott Laramie.

I'm Maddie Mogan's stepfather and the husband of Maddie's mother, Karen Laramie.

I will read this victim impact statement on behalf of Karen and myself.

Maddie was our gift of life, our purpose, and our hope.

Maddie quickly became Karen's joy, identity, and purpose in life.

I joined

Maddie's life when she was two and a half years old.

The experience transformed me into a life of joy, love, and family.

Maddie was bright, beautiful, kind,

empathic.

She listened carefully to others and was observant, seeing and caring about the hearts and the minds of all she encountered.

She loved music and music festivals.

She had a wonderful sense of humor.

She excelled in school.

She was an easy child, easy child to raise, almost never requiring discipline, and almost always giving us

us parental joy.

One time Karen remembers disciplining Maddie as a little girl.

Maddie responded, you broke my heart,

which of course melted ours.

She had a keen wit, even at that young age.

As she

transitioned

into teenage years,

she prioritized us and extended family over many of the distractions that capture teenagers.

She showered us with her presence and love at family events, barbecues, picnics, birthdays, holidays, and others.

She spent countless hours with her papa,

her uncle David, Aunt Adine,

and her other close family and friends.

This world was a better place with her in it.

As she reached adulthood, Maddie applied her studies to be a marketing professional, entering into an internship at Payne West and started planning her professional future.

As with all things,

She involved Karen and myself in the joy of her journey.

As she transitioned into womanhood, Karen and I continued to be astounded at this wonderful and accomplished person we had created.

All parents dream of their children accomplishing more than them.

We realized this dream.

All we had not become, she was becoming.

Karen and I are ordinary people,

but we lived extraordinary lives because we had Maddie.

Maddie was taken senselessly and brutally in a sudden act of evil.

She was taken along

with the young, promising, and bright lives of Kaylee, Xanna, and Ethan.

First we felt disbelief.

Next we felt disorientation.

Then we felt grief overcome us.

Our grief has compounded even more for the Goncalves, Cornodel, and Chapin families.

We speak of hope and healing,

and we do have hope and some healing.

But the vast emotional wound will never fully heal.

Since Maddie's loss, there's emptiness in our hearts, home, and family, an endless void.

After losing your mother in the car crash,

Karen took years to grieve and recover.

The feeling that her life with Maddie and A was perfect helped her to start to heal.

Now, this is no longer perfect.

After Maddie's loss, Karen felt like she was spinning out,

emotionally collapsing

into anxiety and depression.

She sometimes asks,

how am I supposed to go on when I've lost my favorite person in the world?

I felt the same,

and we continue to struggle.

The loss of Maddie has impacted so many beyond our family.

Her second family is her sorority sisters, who

grieve alongside us.

She has so many close friends who suffer from her loss.

We will continue to be

her loss will continue to be felt by the Bandle community,

including Bandel Solutions on campus, where she volunteered her time for others.

It helps us to know Maddie is in heaven now,

freed from the trials of this earth.

We, however, continue to live on without the grace and support of her presence.

We will grow old without our only child,

our bright, beautiful friend and daughter.

In the end, there are no words that can accurately capture the devastation of losing Maddie.

We will endure

and we will go on.

For Maddie, we will not let our grief consume us.

For Maddie, we will continue to love and care for our family and friends, including the families of Kaylee, Santa, and Ethan.

We will remain united with them.

We can only hope that others out there suffering similar losses can look to us and see that we can overcome hatred, darkness, and evil.

We know the law allows us to comment on the defendant and his sentence.

As for his sentence, we support the plea agreement.

Society needs to be protected against this evil.

As for the defendant, we will not waste words,

nor will we fall into hatred and bitterness.

Evil has many faces, and we now know this, but evil does not deserve our time and attention.

We are done being victims.

We are taking back our lives.

We will turn our time, talents, and attention to hope, healing, and helping others, and to the future.

We invite all those who have suffered with us

on this to join us in our journey.

We can make this world a better place.

We can move on from tragedy.

Adversity will visit us.

Evil will visit us, but we will overcome.

We can and will endure.

Karen and I express our gratitude to Your Honor and to the prosecution team

for allowing us the opportunity to make this statement.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for your courage, and I am so sorry for your loss.

God bless your honor.

Your Honor, this is Leander James.

He's the attorney for the Mogan family and victim advocate.

He'll be reading a statement for Karen Laramie.

May it please the court counsel.

My name is Leander James.

I'm the

pro bono counsel for Karen and Scott Laramie.

Karen has asked me to read the statement into the record.

I thank my husband Scott for his statement, his courage, and his unending love and support during this dark time.

While words are inadequate to capture the impact of this horrific crime on our family, he expressed it as best anyone could.

For Maddie's sake, I will add my supplement statement that incorporates additional impact in the context of my extended family.

I am grateful to Maddie's great uncle, Brian Caulfield, for assisting me with the difficult, difficult task of putting our pain into words.

For me and my extended family, Maddie was our hope and our light.

Her beauty, both outside and in, shone its light upon everyone with whom she came in contact.

Her beauty both,

pardon me, she carried that hope and light into the future for our entire entire family.

We have memories of our Maddie and grief and pain at her being

taken from our presence.

Any one of us would have given our own light to have been outshone by hers.

We now look to our Creator to know that her light continues where we look to see her in his presence.

Those who commit evil for their own twisted gains and purposes truly defile the efforts and sacrifices of mothers, fathers, families, teachers, clergy, public servants, service members, and all those who commit themselves to the greater good, freedoms, and the future light of our nation.

Condemnation falls heavily upon those who squandered the lives of our future hopes and dreams.

Some may offer forgiveness for what the defendant has done.

However, we cannot at this time, or perhaps ever.

Nor will we ask for mercy for what he has done.

His acts are too heinous.

The agony and grief he has caused too great.

But

we will waste no further words or thoughts on him.

For Maddie's sake, we will move on.

We will do our best to carry Maddie's light into this world and make it a better place.

I thank the court and the

prosecution for allowing me the opportunity to make my statement.

And I thank all those

who have and will support my family and the families of Kaylee, Zanna, and Ethan.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Slarmé.

Appreciate it.

Next is Ben Mogan, the father of Maddie Mogan.

Of course.

Actually, Your Honor, it'll be Kim Cheely, the grandmother of Maddie Mogan.

My name is Kim Chealy.

I was Maddie Mogan's paternal grandmother, as Ben Mogan, her father, is my son.

I'm here today with my sister, Lori Chealy, Maddie's great aunt, and my son, Ben Mogan, and my daughter-in-law, Corey Hatrock.

I'd like to begin by thanking a number of people involved in bringing this case to closure.

In my daughter's words, The plea deal the prosecution team reached this month is one that punishes the perpetrator of this horrendous crime, protects the public from further harm, and allows all of us who knew and loved these kids the time to grieve without the anxiety of the long and gruesome trial, the years of appeals, and potential for mistrials along the way.

My family and I are so grateful to Bill Thompson and his prosecution team for their dedication and painstaking work that forced the perpetrator to admit his guilt.

We want to thank the Idaho State Police, the Moscow Police Department, the FBI, and Judge Hipler.

We'd also like to thank the University of Idaho officials who have treated the families of the victims with such dignity and kindness and who have honored the four victims beautifully.

Maddie was my first grandchild, so when she was born, all her grandparents had the distinct pleasure of deciding what we'd like to be called.

I chose Nana, pretty original.

But when Maddie was about a year and a half old, her papa, Ben's dad, and I were planning to visit the new little family in Oregon.

Maddie didn't have an extensive vocabulary at the time, but for some unknown reason, she called bananas bodied.

When Karen and Ben told her Nana was coming to visit, she figured I say deedledle for that word.

So I became Deedlededle, shortened to Deedle, when she was about six or seven.

And I was Deedle all her life.

I don't think her stepdad, Scotty, ever knew my given name was Kim.

Maddie's and my birthdays were one day apart, and a couple years before she was killed, she gave me this necklace with Didle and Maddie engraved on it.

And I added an angel wing, and it's one of my treasured possessions.

I also got an angel wing tattoo, never thought I'd see the day,

but along with many members of our family, replicating the one that Maddie and her sorority sisters had.

I wanted mine where I could see and touch it often.

From preschool through grade school, I stopped teaching piano lessons early on Wednesdays and picked Maddie up for bubble baths, brownies, and books.

It was our special time together.

And she went home those nights in her jammies with a pan of warm brownies for her family.

Although Karen and Scotty raised Maddie and did such a lovely job of parenting, we Mogans were lucky to have her for holidays and many other family gatherings.

We'll always have our treasured memories of Maddie growing up in our big, extended, cooperative family.

And I thank Karen and Scotty Laramie for being so generous and open and sharing Maddie with her Mogan side of the family.

When the four kids were murdered,

the foundation fell out of our world.

Initially, the fear was truly debilitating.

The first six weeks were excruciating,

despite the vigils, memorials, candlelight gatherings of students, friends, family, community members.

After the arrest, in the past two and a half years, my family has lived with grief, with the effects of traumatic grief, of which I was blissfully unaware before all of this.

I now have a stack of books on grief.

I've attended grief classes at hospice.

I've tried EMDR, a technique that helps replace disturbing visions with something more comforting.

My son, Ben, his two sisters, Maddie's aunts, and I, have all experienced depression and anxiety and sleep disturbance, requiring medical intervention at times.

We've all sought counseling off and on.

The struggle with media attention was extremely difficult, especially for Ben.

No one should live through the violent murder of one's child.

Some days it's beyond me how the parents of these kids are still upright.

I'm thankful for the strong families and communities that are supporting the survivors.

At the time, I could think of only two blessings surrounding the horrific murders.

One was that Ben was living with my partner Tom and me at the time, and that we could support each other emotionally through it all.

Sadly, Tom died a year ago of a rare brain cancer, and he won't be here to see justice served.

He was our family's rock, and we all miss him every day.

A second blessing is that my mother died of COVID several months before the kids were killed, and she didn't have to live through the horror.

It was difficult to identify blessings.

So we've all lost our dear child and a future with her.

I ache for the loss of the dreams that she and her true love, Jake, held.

And my heart goes out to Karen and Scotty and your side of Maddie's family.

You've had more than your share of loss.

My heart aches for the kids' roommates and the families of the other victims,

and also the family of the perpetrator.

Going forward, we Mogans are choosing to put our energy and focus into honoring Maddie's too short life and sweet spirit by celebrating Maddie May Day, which my two daughters established.

On May 25th each year, Maddie's birthday,

we encourage folks to do random acts of kindness in Maddie's name.

In my daughter Katie's words,

may we all protect our peace in whatever way possible, unite in community and focus on joy.

Please do an act in kindness

in Maddie's honor during this week so a glimmer of Maddie's light may live on.

Thank you.

Thank you, and I appreciate your courage and bless you and your family.

Thank you.

Now it's Ben Mogan, Maddie Mogan's father.

Benjamin Mogan and

Maddie's dad.

And

first, I just

want to say thanks to all the people that helped bring this all to a close.

I know it's not the resolution that everyone

wanted, but

I think that

everyone worked so hard, and we really appreciate all their efforts.

It was such a hard thing to go through for everybody.

Maddie was my only

child that I ever had.

She's the most, she was the only

great thing I ever really did and the only thing I was really ever proud of.

And

I thought we would have

the rest of our lives together to

be together and to

know each other and

and I really took for granted

uh the times you know she was in college and I thought, oh, well, we'll have the rest of our lives to

to

do all the stuff that we're supposed to do and and um

and uh she was just about done.

We she actually earned all of her credits for college degree and

Karen and Scotty and I got to go and get her diploma that she actually earned and she

deserved every bit of that.

But

I thought

that

that was going to be

just the beginning of a

long life together.

And

we never got that.

Karen and Scotty did such a great job raising her after

after Karen and I

split up.

And I'm so thankful for

Scotty and

the role that he played in her life when I wasn't able to.

But we got to spend a lot of great times together.

Maddie and I,

she was my favorite person to go to a concert with.

We got to see some fun shows together.

And I told her if there's ever a show that you want to go to, let me know and I'll get you tickets tickets for you and your friend.

Or if

we want to go together, we'll make it happen.

And

my favorite memory with her was when the Mac Miller show sold out here in Spokane and all the, everyone wanted tickets, no one could get them.

And on the last day before the show, they did a...

radio thing and I got four meet and greet tickets for Maddie and her friends and me to go and see the show.

And that was her favorite artist at the time was Mac Miller.

And he's gone now too.

And my little cousin Zach drove us all there that night and he's gone too tragically.

Anyway,

the

last thing that she ever wrote to me was this Father's Day card.

And

I'm so glad I still have it.

I'm just going to read what she said.

It says, happy Father's Day.

I hope you have the best day.

I can't wait till we can hang out again soon.

I'll be in Cordillaine

624 to 7-4.

Hopefully we can find a time then.

I love your birthday card that you sent me, by the way.

Maybe we can see a concert sometime soon.

I'd love to see the gorge when it's not so smoky out.

I hope you're doing well.

I'm proud of how far you've come.

Thank you for always encouraging me to do my best.

Love you lots and lots.

Love Maddie Mae.

She did encourage me to

not just to do my best, but to live on.

I went through a lot of

issues with addiction and with

substance abuse and

when I wasn't wanting to live anymore,

she was what would keep me

from

just

not caring anymore.

And knowing that she was out there and that she was just such a beautiful person kept me alive

a lot of

rough moments.

And

I'm so glad that

She was able to meet Jake.

He was the only one that I actually ever got to take her her to the gorge.

They went and saw watershed together, and

yeah, they had a heck of a time.

I'm glad she got to.

That's a really special place for me.

And

she always wanted to work out there with me in the summer sometime.

Man, she never got to, but at least she got to see it once with Jake.

He was such a great guy.

He is such a great guy.

And I really wanted to see what a future with them would have looked like.

I

I'll never

I'll never be able to uh

replace her.

I wrote a bunch of stuff.

I don't I just don't know what to say right now.

I said I just miss her so much and I just love her

more than anything and

this shouldn't happen and

you know

a death sentence is one thing you know you know when when it's gonna happen and you know it's gonna be all gentle and stuff you know life without parole with a room building full of people that all just want you to not be around anymore and winking every morning, not knowing if that's the day they're going to pull your card.

I mean, that's not a very nice sentence either.

So,

you know, I don't,

I don't know.

I just love you, Maddie, and I wish you were still here.

Thank you so much.

Your honor, next would be members from the Kayleigh Gonsalves family.

First will be her father, Steve Gonsalves.

Today, we are here to finish what you started.

Today,

you've lost control.

Today we are here to prove to the world that you picked the wrong families.

The wrong state, the wrong police officers,

the wrong community.

You tried to break our community apart.

You tried to plant fear.

You tried to divide us.

You failed.

Instead, your actions have united everyone in their disgust for you.

I just learned from these lead investigators, to their shock,

they worked in the investigation and actually

worked with Pennsylvania police officers and the federal FBI.

You united everyone.

Everyone was united after you.

None of us are divided.

We were united in our disgust

and our love for these children.

Today you have no name.

Because when this all started, we all came together and we said, let's stop even talking about his name and just use initials.

See, even the media just calls you BK.

That's all you are.

Looking back when the police officers knocked on my door,

told me what happened to my child, told me what happened to Maddie Mae.

I don't think he was even out of the driveway before my kids turned around, looked at me, and said, what do we do, Dad?

I told them,

you get to work.

You get your ass to work.

And we started calling.

We started texting.

We started emailing.

And you know what?

Within hours.

Within hours, we had your white car on the camera.

We knew.

We knew from the very beginning we had you

Police officers tell us welcome everyone.

This is Megan Kelly.

We are in live coverage here of the sentencing hearing for Brian Kohlberger confessed killer of the Idaho 4 and Steve Gonsalvez is speaking now father Katie

You're a joke complete joke

But we took this disaster and we did what we could

We put everything online.

we took our kids, we took our images, we took everything that they did: their videos, their photos, the girls' pranks,

Ethan singing.

We put it out there, we shared it with the world,

and the world united.

And all they ended up when they talked about this case is they talked about Kayleigh Jade, Maddie Mae, Xana, and Ethan.

Everything that these people meant to us, a father, a mother, a brother, a sister, we shared that with our community.

Then we shared it with our state.

We shared it with the country, and eventually we shared it with the world.

The world's watching because of the kids, not because of you.

Nobody cares about you.

You're not worth the time, the effort to be remembered.

In time, you will be nothing but two initials forgotten to the wind.

No visitors, nothing more than initials on an otherwise unmarked tombstone.

From this moment,

we've all started

from this moment, we will forget you.

We want to all leave in closing one last thing.

You picked the wrong family, and we're laughing at you on your trip to Japan.

Penn.

That will be today or tomorrow.

I'll close with:

God bless all the men and women that worked on this case and all the hard work that you guys did.

You guys allowed us to grieve and allowed us to get through this.

The amount of work that you guys put together and the way that you guys put it together was beautiful.

There were hard times to be expected, but thank you all and God bless.

Thank you.

Your honor next is Stephen Gonzalvez, Kaylee's brother.

Stephen's actually going to pass.

I'm going to go.

Olivia Gonsalves, Kayleigh's sister.

Hello, I'd like to start by thanking the court for allowing me the time and opportunity to speak today.

My name is Olivia, and I'm the big sister of Kaylee Gonzalez, and I was blessed to love Madison Mogan as a sister, too.

I'm not here today to speak in grief.

I'm here to speak in truth.

Because the truth is, my sister Kaylee and her best friend Maddie were not yours to take.

They were not yours to study, to stalk, or to silence.

They were two pieces of a whole, the perfect yin and yang.

They are everything that you could never be.

Loved, accepted, vibrant, accomplished, brave, and powerful.

Because the truth about Kaylee and Maddie is they would have been kind to you.

If you had approached them in their everyday lives, they would have given you directions, thanked you for the compliment, or awkwardly giggled to make your own words less uncomfortable for you.

In a world that rejected you, they would have shown mercy.

Because the truth is, I'm angry.

Every day I'm angry.

I'm left shouting at the inside of my own head everything I wish I could say to you.

The truth about me is when I heard the news, I didn't cry.

I listened for them.

I promised them I would.

that I would fight for them, that I would show up no matter what it cost me.

I swore I'd never let them feel alone because you see, I've always been their heavy weight.

I've always been the one to fight the battles they didn't feel ready to fight themselves.

All it ever took was a call and they knew I would handle it for them, no matter the time, no matter the cost.

They could wave their white flag because they knew I would never back down.

not for them.

And not even death could change that.

Somewhere along the line I started to think about what I would say to them if I was given just one last chance.

If I could gather enough heartbreak or love or sacrifice or whatever it took to get just one message across, what would I say?

Throughout this entire process

I've written my feelings down at every moment, my wishes, my love, my denial, my anger.

And as one final act of love, I'd planned to read these thoughts, even jarring and discombobulating and not even making sense.

Because for me, that was true love, as bare and as naked as it could be, not laced in pretty words or dressed for the occasion, but written through bleary eyes at 2 a.m.

with clenched fists, angry at this reality.

My true final act of love was to continue on without them for them.

That dream to read a love, to read aloud my love to them, to bring meaning through pain

was the latest blow in realizing

you don't deserve it.

And Kaylee and Maddie don't need it.

Kaylee and Maddie have always known my love, and they would never ask me to prove it.

by further victimizing myself to a defendant who has shown no guilt, no remorse, no apprehension.

They would say to me,

Why would you give the satisfaction of showing vulnerability now?

You promised you would never back down.

And for that clarity, I'm thankful.

I won't stand here and give you what you want.

I won't offer you tears, I won't offer you trembling.

Disappointments like you thrive on pain, on fear, and on the illusion of power.

And I won't feed your beast.

Instead, I will call you what you are.

Sociopath, psychopath, murderer.

I will ask the questions that reverberate violently in my own head so loudly that I can't think straight most any day.

Some of these might be familiar, so sit up straight when I talk to you.

How was your life right before you murdered my sisters?

Did you prepare for the crime before leaving your apartment?

Please detail what you are thinking and feeling at this time.

Why did you choose my sisters?

Before making your move, did you approach my sisters?

Detail what you were thinking and feeling.

Before leaving their home, is there anything else you did?

How does it feel?

to know the only thing you failed more miserably at than being a murderer is trying to be a rapper.

Did you recently start shaving or manually pulling out your eyebrows?

Why November 13th?

Did you truly think your Amazon purchase was untraceable because you used a gift card?

How do you find it enjoyable to stargaze with such a severe case of visual snow?

Where is the murder weapon, the clothes you wore that night?

What did you bring into the house with you?

What was the second weapon you used on Kaylee?

What were Kaylee's last words?

Please describe in detail the level of anxiety you must have felt when you heard the bear cat pull up to your family home on December 30th, 2022.

Which do you regret more?

Returning to the crime scene five hours later or never ever going back to Moscow, not even once,

after stalking them there for months.

If you were really smart, do you think you'd be here right now?

What's it like needing this much attention just to feel real?

You're terrified of being ordinary, aren't you?

Do you feel anything at all?

Or are you exactly what you always feared?

Nothing.

If you're so powerful, then why are you still hiding, defendant?

You see, I'm here today as me.

But who are you?

Let's try to take off your mask and see.

You didn't create devastation.

You revealed it in yourself.

And that darkness you carry, that emptiness, you'll sit with it long after this is over.

That is your sentence.

And it was written on the wall long before you ever pled guilty.

You didn't win.

You just exposed yourself as the coward you are.

You're a delusional, pathetic, hypochondriac loser who thought you were so much smarter than everybody else.

Constantly scolding, turning your nose up to grammar mistakes, nitpicking and criticizing others.

You wanted so badly to be different, to be special, to be better, to be deep, to be mysterious.

You found yourself thinking you were better than everyone else, and you thought you could figure out the human psyche and see through it, all while tweaked out on heroin.

Lurking in the shadows made you feel powerful because no one ever paid you any attention in the light.

You thought you were exceptional, all because of a grade on a paper.

You thought you were elite because your online IQ test from 2010 told you so.

All of that effort just to seem important.

It's desperate.

There is a name for your condition, though.

Your inflated ego just didn't allow you to see it.

Wanna be.

You act like no one could ever understand your mind, but the truth is, you're basic.

You're a textbook case of insecurity disguised as control.

Your patterns are predictable.

Your motives are shallow.

You are not profound.

You're pathetic.

You aren't special or deep.

Not mysterious or exceptional.

Don't ever get it twisted again.

No one is scared of you today.

No one is intimidated by you.

No one is impressed by you.

No one thinks that you are important.

You orchestrated this like you thought you were God.

Now look at you, begging a courtroom for scraps.

You spent months preparing, and still all it took was my sister and a sheath.

You worked so hard to seem dangerous,

but real control doesn't have to prove itself.

The truth is,

the scariest part about you is how painfully average you turned out to be.

The truth is, you're as dumb as they come.

Stupid, clumsy, slow, sloppy, weak, dirty.

Let me be very clear.

Don't ever try to convince yourself you mattered just because someone finally said your name out loud.

I see through you.

You want the truth?

Here's the one you'll hate the most.

If you hadn't attacked them in their sleep, in the middle of the night, like a pedophile, Kaylee would have kicked your fucking ass.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next is Christy Gonsalves, Kaylee Gonzalez's mother.

Thank you, Your Honor.

I never imagined having to speak to someone so devoid of humanity

For a long time, I didn't think I find the words low enough to meet you where you are.

But now I realize this isn't about you.

It's about what you've done to me, and I need you to hear it.

When you murdered my daughter, Kaylee Jacobis,

you didn't just take her life.

You shattered others.

You attacked what you could never be, and in doing so, you left a trail of devastation far beyond that house.

You stole my peace.

You've altered my every waking moment, every sleepless night, the way I view the world, people, safety, trust.

It's all been changed by your cruelty.

I no longer recognize parts of myself.

Joy is harder to find.

Laughter feels foreign.

The world moves forward, but I'm suspended in a place of sorrow and rage.

You've taken from me something that can never be restored.

The grief sits with me every day, some days quietly, and other days so loud it drowns out everything else.

The emotional toll you've inflicted on me is immeasurable.

I live with a constant ache, with birthdays that are now memorials, with holidays that feel hollow,

with empty chairs that scream louder than words ever could.

I am forever changed.

But for you,

as a person working on a PhD in criminal justice, you really didn't think this one through.

You're not that good.

In fact, you're not that good at anything.

You couldn't secure a job.

You couldn't get along with others.

You couldn't even get a female to look in your direction.

All because you are pathetic.

Now you're a joke in this courtroom.

I wish I could crown you with a jester hat to complete your orange jumpsuit clown look.

A dead killer doesn't kill again.

So while I'm disappointed the firing shod won't get to take their shots at you, I'm confident that the men in prison will have their way with you in more ways than one.

You will finally get what you wanted, physical touch.

Just probably not how you were expecting it.

See, you haven't beat the system.

You've simply entered a new one where the rules are cruel and the consequences will never end.

You are entering a place where no one will care who you are and no one will ever respect you.

You will be forgotten, discarded, used, and erased.

You will always be remembered as an as a loser, an absolute failure.

And when those prison doors slam shut behind you, I hope that sound echoes in your heart for the rest of your meaningless days.

I hope it reminds you of what we all already know: you're nothing.

May you continue to live your life in misery.

You are officially the property of the state of Idaho,

where your fellow inmates are anxiously awaiting your arrival.

But it's okay

because they're there to help you.

Hell will be waiting.

Quick message from our youngest daughter.

Aubrey wanted to say,

you may have received A's in high school and college, but you're going to be getting big D's in prison.

Thank you.

Do we have more from the Gonzalves family?

Yes.

Next would be Shannon Gray, the Gonzalvez family attorney.

He'll be reading statements from Kaylee Gonzalvez's grandmothers.

Morning, Your Honor.

Shannon Gray, the attorney for the Gonzales family, I actually have three statements, one from her aunt and two from her grandparents.

This is from her aunt, Tammy Butts.

You in the cloak of darkness made a decision to turn our whole family's world upside down forever.

You and the Cloak of Darkness took our Kayleigh J.

Gonzávez away from us all without hesitation.

Never have you shown any remorse or regret.

We just get creepy,

non-expressive stares as you have your team of women defend you.

Kaylee was a strong, kind, fun, loving, caring person, and she will greatly be missed by all her family and friends for the rest of our lives.

She had goals in life that you took from her and us.

We lose on watching her enjoying her life, working hard and building the future she wanted.

She was ready to start that after college life.

You and the Cloak of Darkness took it all away.

You left us without her future wedding, her future children that she would have added to our family.

No more talking to her on the phone, going for a coffee, celebrating holidays.

It's all gone.

You and the Cloak of Darkness gave each and every one of Kaylee's family members their own lifetime sentence.

You and the Cloak of Darkness also took our Maddie Mae from all of us.

She was so genuine, caring, polite.

She was part of our family.

You came in, harmed our children that were younger women than you in their own beds.

You're nothing, you're a coward.

It's not right that you have received life.

I pray that you meet your end in the cloak of darkness, burn in hell.

I have two other statements, Your Honor.

This is Linda Lukins' statement.

This is Kayleigh's grandmother.

I really don't know how to address something so inhumane, but I will try.

Nothing in the past two and a half years has made any sense.

All I get is you cowardly went into a home at night filled with what I'm sure you thought was all sleeping girls and went on a vicious killing spree for no other reason but to appease your demonic urges.

You took my granddaughter Kaylee from us plus three other beautiful lives.

You took my granddaughter Kayleigh, beautiful, sweet-souled, doll-faced Kaylee, who was getting ready to start her amazing life, who had such a bright future, who was loved by so many, who you were so envious of, she had a life you could never have.

You are so beyond human.

You're definitely a demon from hell.

I truly wish your punishment would be the same death you inflicted on our kids.

But I think you will meet some new friends in prison who will be there just to help you.

Thumbs up.

And I have one last statement, Your Honor.

This is from Cheryl Gonzavez, Kaylee's other grandmother.

John 1.5 says, light shines in the darkness

and the darkness overcomes it not.

Somewhere in your life, something, some jealousy, envy, ego, something went dark.

It pushed out all light until you became dark and evil.

And when you saw my granddaughter and her friends, their light, because they have such a light, you couldn't stand it.

because the darkness in you could not stand the light in them.

And so you decided to destroy it.

Cowardly, you walked into their rooms in the dark and took their lives, hoping to get rid of your darkness.

But you didn't.

You failed.

Because you know what was once a light shown only to their friends, families, and loved ones is now all over the world.

Everyone sees it.

Their smile, their beauty, their plans, everything they were and had.

And you think you put a close to it, even that, but you didn't.

Because they still exist.

They are still light.

They are still beautiful.

You can never take that away.

They will always be in the light of all eternity.

And you will be in the darkness because you could not overcome it.

You failed.

I want you to be gone, more than gone.

I want you to be cast out.

Cast out from my life, from my family, from this earth.

I will not allow your hatred to penetrate into my own soul.

You did not get that power.

You are evil, and in the end, evil is eradicated.

You didn't take Kaylee's light, you spread it into the world.

Thank you, Your Honor.

Thank you.

All right.

If the consultant, are you moving to a different family now?

Why don't we take a 10-minute recess?

All right.

Extraordinary, extraordinary, extraordinary.

Good God, what just happened that we watched together Kaylee Gonsalves'

sister, Olivia,

with the most powerful victim impact statement I've ever heard, completely flipping the whole narrative, refusing to talk about her pain or to read as she described it from the journal she's been keeping

as she's gone through all of the emotions following her sister's murder, something she considered doing, and instead

going on offense,

diminishing him, mocking him, laughing at him.

Literally, there was a laugh at one point as she called him pathetic, a loser.

and said in that moment that

we're all still reeling from.

Hold on, I want to get it because I wrote it down exactly.

If you hadn't attacked them in the middle of the night while they were asleep, like a pedophile, Kaylee would have kicked your fucking ass.

That was the position she came from, Olivia Gonsalves, from a position of strength as the big sister who always protected her younger sisters, as she called both Kaylee and her best friend, Maddie Mogan.

Wow.

That was something to watch.

Steve Gonsalves, who originally had said he wasn't going to speak at all at this thing, got up, turned the lectern to face Brian Kohlberger, to stare him down and to have his say in the same defiant tone,

with the same righteous anger, he addressed him.

Both of the Gonsalveses there and the mother too, refusing to sound like they'd been victimized.

saying, today you've lost control.

You picked the wrong families, the wrong state, the wrong police.

He said,

your actions have united everyone in their disgust for you.

None of us are divided.

We're united in our disgust and in our love for our children.

You have no name.

We only call you BK.

The media has been calling you that too.

You're a joke, he said, Steve Gonsalves.

He made the point that we've shared the videos of our four children with the world.

That's what they know.

They know their names.

They know their joy.

They know their love for one another.

They know their

zest for life.

That's who they've been discussing, he said.

The world is watching because of the kids, not because of you.

No one cares about you.

You'll be forgotten.

From this moment, we will forget you.

Ending with, you picked the wrong family.

Again, we're laughing at you on your trip to the penitentiary.

And then the big sister, Olivia, making it even more clear.

Is the panel with me, Steve?

Yeah, they're with me.

Okay, back with me now.

Phil Holloway,

Howard Bloom, and also Matt Murphy has joined us as well.

Guys, that was extraordinary.

Phil, I'll start with you.

Yeah, you know, Megan, I posted in response to something you posted on X during that, that that

statement by the

sister is just the most powerful thing that I have ever heard in terms of victim impact statements.

And I hope that her words will echo in his despicable brain for the rest of his natural life because look he doesn't have to sit there in prison and worry about ever facing the firing squad uh in idaho but hopefully she has given him something to think about and i hope that it haunts him for all of his days all of these speakers did a very good job so far in expressing to the public what what this kind of thing does to families.

It shatters families.

You bring step parents parents in and you bring extended family in, and it just, the reverberations of this type of cruel, evil attack just seem to be never ending.

But these human beings have come into this courtroom and have expressed to the world now what the impact is of this type of horrific crime.

Even though it's not going to make one difference in the sentence, hopefully it gives this guy something to think about as he rots in prison.

It's satisfying to watch, whether it changes that sentence or not.

There's something very satisfying about watching them say those things to him.

Howard, the sisters, Olivia's remarks, must have jumped out to you because of those questions she was asking him.

Yes, it was very poignant.

It was Old Testament fury.

She was just unleashing all her rage.

Though at one point she said, you're afraid to be ordinary.

I think really when the people were discussing what they missed most, they missed the ordinary moments

with their loved ones that they'll never have again.

It was like a scene from the Thornton Wildler play where he comes back and he looks at his family having breakfast.

He's in heaven and he can never have that experience again.

And that's what they're missing.

Koberger's fate was that he could never be part of that world.

He could never be ordinary.

It wasn't that he...

didn't want to be ordinary.

He didn't know how to be ordinary.

Right.

And she went through, Matt Murphy was fascinating.

That those recitations, the questions that she asked, seemed to me to be pulled from Brian Kohlberger's questionnaire that he submitted

as a PhD student in criminology.

It was either as a PhD student or as a master's student at DeSales, but he submitted that questionnaire for criminals asking questions like the ones she posited there, like, why did you choose?

And then she said, my sisters, referring to Maddie as her sisters to detail you what you were thinking and feeling.

If memory serves, these are pulled in part directly from his survey.

And then she inserted her own questions like, where's the second murder weapon you used on Kaylee?

Which was a brand new fact none of us had ever heard.

Well, she knows that with the prospect of a statement and allocution.

looming, he's going to have an opportunity perhaps to answer those questions.

So she's calling him out ahead of time, which I think is very, very clever, because of course he's not going to answer any of those questions.

Another thing that I think was incredibly powerful about that, and we've talked about this before, Megan, is that when it comes to the personality of the psychopath, and that really is what I think Brian Koberger is, they don't really respond to things like a grandmother's tears or the emotional impact on

a mother who's lost her child.

They're almost immune from that sort of thing.

But when it comes to the narcissism that is possessed by a lot of psychopaths, he cut deep.

And using the language of people in their 20s, he heard all that.

You're a loser.

And I had to, you're basic.

You're not profound.

You're pathetic.

And you're exactly right.

And she obviously spent a lot of time going through his own writings and knew exactly where those exposed nerves were.

And I'll tell you what, as I'm listening to that, it was incredibly powerful.

I've sat through dozens and dozens and dozens of these things over the years, and that one will stand out because if he listens to anybody, if he's going to go into prison with anybody's words ringing in his head, it is that woman just laying it out.

And that last thing that you already hit on, if you hadn't attacked them in their sleep like a pedophile, and that's something he's got to be concerned about, especially if he ever sees or even sniffs general population, which I don't think he ever will.

um you know she is she is raising that the the sexual component that we talked about before And my sister would have kicked your fucking ass.

That is, he will, he'll hear that and he's going to remember those words, I think.

It was extra powerful because

obviously this guy has like some seriously deep misogynistic issues.

And so for this young, beautiful woman who he knows would also never have him to stand up there and laugh at him and call him pathetic and a loser and tell him this other woman who he could only subdue because she was sleeping would have kicked his fucking ass was so powerful a moment that you, yes, you feel like

while he has no empathy whatsoever for victims, he does have feelings about himself and his own deep inadequacies.

And yes, she knew exactly how to twist the knife, which is, I mean, a perfect for now ending to their relationship.

Can I add another element to that as well?

Again,

there was a bit of minor rebellion in that, which I also kind of love.

And Judge Hipler handled it perfectly.

When somebody gives a victim impact statement, they're not supposed to address the defendant directly.

They're supposed to address the court.

So the fact that Mr.

Gonzalvez and her sister both faced him directly and spoke directly to him, it's kind of pushing the limits of the rules, but that was their opportunity to do it.

And I really appreciate the fact that the court did not attempt to correct them on that.

They had their moment.

And I mean, look,

in the victim, in the victim rights, the victim impact world, people that have suffered from violent crime.

I mean,

that woman spoke for a lot of people today.

And that was very powerful, I thought.

We are right now awaiting the remainder of the Brian Kohlberger sentencing hearing.

We've heard from the families of Maddie Mogan and Kaylee Gonsalves.

We have not yet heard from Ethan Chapin's or Xana Cernodel's families.

We also heard, and I'll get to this in one second, but an extraordinary moment from the two surviving roommates, which was shocking.

One had her statement read by a friend.

One, the one we've been speculating about all along, Howard Bloom, Dylan Mortensen, took to the lectern.

She sat.

She wasn't able to stand.

You could see she was, I mean, a wreck, but she

spoke about what happened that night.

It was remarkable to hear her for the first time.

You have to admire her courage.

I mean, to be able to do that, to relive that moment publicly,

you know, my heart goes out to her and yet I'm filled with respect for her at the same time.

And

I know Koberger, or I speculate, Koberger must have been staring at her and wondering, you know, he saw her at that moment.

He let her live.

what was going on in his mind.

He sat there and he looked, in my opinion, diminished today.

We saw him earlier on the proceedings.

He was wearing a suit and tie.

His hair was gelled.

He was trying to look like a swaggering figure.

Now he looks like, as the sister said, the loser he's become.

Yeah, he looks like a convicted felon sitting there in his orange jumpsuit.

And Phil, he was almost expressionless for most of the

testimonials, though at one point when they were talking about Maddie Mogan, her family went first, he had his hands on his swivel chair and he was swiveling a little, like swiveling, like a kid bored in class.

And then he stopped and just stared everyone down.

He was almost expressionless.

When the sister said, sit up, he didn't.

He just, he remained motionless.

But your thoughts on the fact that, back to my other point, the two surviving roommates

took the stand.

The first one,

Bethany Funk, didn't.

She had a friend who was featured in this documentary that I mentioned on Amazon Prime read her statement.

This is a very dear friend of all four of the roommates.

She got up and read Bethany's statement.

And I'm just going to play part of what she said because this is the first time we've heard essentially from Bethany Funk, the roommate who was in the basement and didn't hear anything, to whose room Dylan Mortensen ran eventually through at some point that night because she was terrified,

explain

what her experience was in those hours and why she didn't immediately know something was wrong wrong or call police.

Here's her friend reading her statement.

Listen.

My name is Bethany Funk, and I was roommates with Maddie, Kaylee, Xana, and Ethan.

I not only lost some of my best friends, but I also lost a sister.

Never in a million years would I have,

would I have thought that something like this would have happened to my closest friends.

When I first woke up that morning, I had no idea what happened.

I woke up around seven with a terrible toothache, so I called my dad, who is a dentist.

He told me to take Advil, so I did, and I went back to sleep.

I was still out of it and still didn't know what happened.

If I had known, I of course would have called 911 right away.

I still carry so much regret and guilt for not knowing what had happened and not calling right away, even though I understand it wouldn't have changed anything, not even if the paramedics had been right outside the door.

Oh, Phil.

Yeah, look, there's, there's just no amount of counseling or therapy that can, I think, ever

bring these survivors,

you know, what they've lost.

I mean, they, they have to live the rest of their lives with this guilt.

I mean, I don't personally feel that they have anything to be guilty of or to feel guilty about, but we know they do actually feel that way.

And this is part of, you know, this is part of what this individual did he not only ceased the lives of four individuals he effectively destroyed the lives of these other two because all of the things that they were working on all of the things that they were dreaming and hoping for for the future are now gone and all they are left with is this survivor's grief and so uh to see them have the courage to to finally speak out after all this time um you know hopefully that lets the world sort of understand better the impact of what happens to families and individuals when they're shattered by such violent crime.

To your point a moment ago about the sister telling Koberger to sit up straight, Megan, I thought I saw a little bit of a

smirk on his face.

I'd have to go back and see it, but I think that she did get his attention.

I don't know if it was a nervous smirk or if it was some kind of just evil smirk on his face, But I felt like when she told him to sit up straight, I felt like she did get his attention.

He does sit there without emotion and without remorse,

which goes to the point that I've been making for all this time: is that the death penalty should still be on the table for him because there's no value to remaining in a world with him living in it.

I think he should have to live in prison every day, worrying about the firing squad in Idaho.

Will the marksman hit their mark or is it going to hurt?

And he needs to be thinking about those things.

But instead, he gets to live the rest of his days, perhaps giving interviews and maybe even writing books.

But to be able to sit there all day and just swivel in his chair and just wait for his trip to prison seems like a very anticlimactic end to all of this.

Matt Murphy, it seemed to me that the Gonsalves family had made, was making a concerted effort to set the table for this guy to be taken out in prison.

I mean, if there was a theme from the Gonsalveses to me, that was it.

Steve Gonsalves saying, you picked the wrong families, you picked the wrong state, you picked the wrong group of people.

He was basically, because I've heard him on other interviews before saying, this is someone, he's not one of ours.

He's not from Idaho.

He came from the East Coast and murdered four of ours.

And I don't think the prisoners are going to take too kindly to that.

The sister calling him a pedophile.

Then the mother saying explicitly, I'm confident that the men in prison will have their way with you in more ways than one.

And reading Kaylee Gonsalves' little sister's statement, you may have received A's in schools, but in prison, you'll be getting big D's, which everyone laughed at and clapped at.

I mean, the Gonsalves family got a lot of applause in response to those statements.

It seems clear what this family wants to have happen to Brian Kohlberger next.

Well, he'll be in protective custody, no doubt, and they'll do their best to keep him safe.

He won't be in general population.

But look, 40 plus years is an awful long time.

And there's, he will, he's going to have a target on him, and he's going to have to worry about that.

And protective custody is,

it's not infallible.

And on my Rodney Alcala case, He got beat up in the hallway one day when we're in the middle of trial.

You know, they're just taking an inmate past him who had buttoned them, spit on them, and went off on them.

So it is, you know, he will have to look over his shoulder.

And, you know,

most families

they're back in session.

So hold that thought and we'll get back to court and then back to the panel.

The next family is the family of Xana Cernodel.

And first would be Jasmine Cernodle, Xana's sister.

I just want to say thank you to everyone who's been involved in this and just

for all the hard work and dedication they had to put into this.

I also want to thank everyone for the support and just my family and friends who've been around

through this time.

I went back and forth on whether to speak today because the truth is you don't deserve power over my feelings, my words, or me.

Thank you.

In the end,

I realized this moment isn't about you.

It's about justice for Xana, Ethan, Kaylee, and Maddie.

It's about honoring the beautiful, beautiful people they were and still still are in God's eyes.

On November 13th,

2022,

peace in my heart was ripped away.

There's no way to ever fully describe the weight of losing my sister, my best friend.

No sentence or punishment will ever come close to the justice Xana, Ethan, Kaylee, and Maddie deserve.

Xanna was everyone's best friend.

She was kind.

She was funny.

She was a gift to each person she was able to make an impact on.

Xanna was someone I turned to when I needed direction or advice.

Although I am her older sister, I often found myself looking up to her.

She had a radiant energy that everyone loved, and she always knew the right way to approach a problem.

She knew how precious and special life was.

And she truly did live every day to the fullest.

Yet her story was cut short by an act of evil.

I believe in a God whose justice is not bound by this courtroom.

I find peace knowing that judgment ultimately belongs to him.

For your sake, I hope one day you feel the full weight of what you did.

I hope you take accountability.

I hope you truly experience the guilt and you surrender yourself to Jesus Christ.

Because no punishment on this earth can ever compare to the isolation and pain of eternal separation from God.

Xanna deserved more.

They all did.

But I come here to say this.

I am strong.

I am brave.

I'm a fighter, just like Xana.

And you don't get to control how I move forward or what I believe.

I walk with the comfort of knowing I will see my sister again.

Xana didn't get the future she deserved.

She won't be the maid of honor at my wedding, the cool aunt to my future children.

I'll never hear her laugh or see her light up a room ever again.

But I will carry her with me for the rest of my life.

I will live in her honor, fight to be the best kind of woman and someone she's proud of.

to make sure the world never forgets who she was.

Xana's story doesn't end with what was taken from her.

It lives through the love she gave, the people she touched, and the legacy our family will protect.

Her light still shines, and her voice will echo louder than this pain.

You didn't take that from us, and you never will.

Thank you.

I just want to say before I start, I'm Xanna's dad, Jeff Cronodal.

It's been a hard road down, you know, because she's gone.

And

I want to thank everybody, other families that's speaking so far, spoke about things.

I agree with everything they have to say.

It all comes back to a lot of the same things that I've had to deal with, and we as a family have had to deal with.

And that brings me, you know, basis of what I'm gonna talk about a little bit is on my way up here,

flying up here on the plane and

about halfway through the flight, a little girl calling out for her dad.

Hey, dad, dad, dad.

And then in my mind, I was kind of half asleep.

It's dark on the plane.

I heard Xana.

calling out for me like she did, you know, back when she was little, five years old.

And those times were hard.

It was chaotic, but we always had something to work toward that was in a positive direction

compared to right now, which is necessarily not as positive as that for sure.

And I know not, I miss Zanna a lot.

My life's been changed.

And Zanna had a great impact on me.

And the impact was when she was gone, I realized how important

she was

and what she really did for me, influenced me, was way beyond what I ever thought.

She'd call me up on the weekends, check on me, see who's with me.

She's like

accountability towards your youngest daughter.

And

that really made a big difference and made me really think about things and what what it's all about, you know um

that's that's the things that i i miss the most is those calls on the weekends the calls at level night what's going on you want to meet my friend you know whoever she's she's with a couple of her friends i can meet them talk to them and um

she always did that

and uh it's pretty cool pretty cool i really miss that and um

that's

She made a big impact on me,

on other people, her family.

but the impact that she made is so extensive on what happened here.

And it goes so far.

People from everywhere in the world, you know, are following things.

And Xana has made a difference in their lives.

So, you know, countless people told me that they might not even know her.

They never knew anything about her.

It's what they see.

And they just are

they just love her and say how they wish she could have been their

You know, could have been their friend, could have hung out.

And it's like,

this is just a blessing, you know, this is the little kid was.

And

definitely was a big, big blessing in my life.

And so

is Jasmine.

And

basically,

you know, we worked hard to do the things we did,

you know, through the times that we were growing up.

and um

through those times i realized that

i wanted both of them to graduate college and that'd be the ultimate thing for them to do to prepare for the world

then it then

it came back to me

xanna didn't get to finish college

She

had it all figured out.

Quick break.

We'll be right back with ongoing coverage of the sentencing hearing of Brian Kohlberger, confessed killer of the Idaho 4.

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It's the part that really counted is those memories.

And those are what I have left, the memories with her and the ones I can make with her and the life that I can go on with now.

which is what she wants.

And I say that in the present sense, because that's what she wants.

Because

I've been told that, you know, I've had countless ways that she's out there and has a way to communicate,

which I'm very grateful for.

That goes to say

that

the impact of what happened to them, all the four kids, goes so much further than just not me,

the parents, the families, the community.

It goes so far because

a lot of kids, you know, in the colleges, just for an example, they lock their doors now.

The door wasn't locked in the back.

You know, Penn State or wherever it was, all the colleges, I know that I've heard they all lock their doors now.

So maybe the impact that it's going to make is going to help out and maybe protect some people.

Having this outreach and having the influence of what these kids, what happened to these kids did, you know.

All I know is I was seven miles away when it happened and I had a, she wasn't feeling that good.

It was 1130 and I almost went over to Susanna's to say and I would have been sitting right there.

in that couch and you had to deal with me so they would have had a chance and i regret that And I regret not going.

But the reason why I didn't is because Dan said, don't be drinking and driving.

You have to rent a car.

Don't be drinking and driving, you know, the week before that.

So she, she was, um,

she would have been mad at me to do that.

But I really wish I would have

drunk and drove, you know,

because they would have had a chance, all four of them.

At this point,

I just have to go on.

We're going to go on with everything

and make things better in my life because that's what it's all about.

It's about closure

and things.

And the part that we miss is Santa, her influence, her smile, the things that she did.

And

we have the memories left, the great memories.

And

she just wants us to make more memories.

That's all I got.

Thank you for your words and your courage, and bless your family.

Next, Kim Carnotto would like to address the court.

Thank you, Your Honor.

My name is Kim Cernodle.

I am Zana's aunt.

I was very blessed to have her

in my life, in our family.

And I thought I had everything in my head, what I wanted to say,

but it kind of went out.

And I tried, I'm always looking for the positive thing

because

evil, hate,

can destroy people.

And that's what it started doing with our family.

It created anger with our family members.

And then I had to look.

Because Santa was everything that the media, her friends said.

She was that

fun, loving,

high-spirited, beautiful person.

And I no longer get to get my nails done with her, have lunch with her.

Sorry.

But how I look at it now is this tragedy, this horrible tragedy on all of our the four children

has brought us closer.

You united us with your actions.

We're united now and we're stronger than ever.

We have family and friends now that we never knew we had.

And you know, this is probably going to bother everybody, but Brian, I'm here today to tell you I have forgiven you, because I no longer could live with that hate in my heart.

And for me to become a better person, I have forgiven you.

And anytime you wanna talk and tell me what happened, get my number.

I'm here.

No judgment.

Because I do have answers or questions that I want you to answer.

And I'm here.

I'll be that one that'll listen to you.

Okay?

Thank you, Yohanner.

Thank you very much.

My name is Stratton Cronodle, and I'm Xanda's uncle, Jeff's brother.

Sitting here today listening to all the

stories and feelings and feeling the pain from everybody

is pretty...

a pretty powerful thing.

Each time a statement was read,

it

sort of would tug into my center core as I felt everybody's anguish.

And

Santa meant a lot to us, and we loved her very much.

But I started thinking about, instead of

rehashing everything that everybody else has talked about,

I wanted to direct it another direction

toward Brian and what he's done to his family,

his parents, his siblings, his friends,

his universe.

He has contaminated, tainted their family name,

and pretty much made

a horrible, miserable thing to be ever related to him.

And I know that that's what he has to live with, and that has to be his pain.

And that's all I have to say.

Thank you.

Next, Your Honor, I believe Randy Davis, stepfather to Xanta Cornoda, would like to address the court.

Hi, my name's Randy, stepdad to Xana.

I just feel the same way we all do.

All of us are united

because of something that happened.

And I am grateful to know

and have met some new family because of this awful event.

But this is probably the last time we're all going to be in the same room together.

Let's be real.

So I can say I love you all.

and I feel your pain

and just God bless us all, you know,

just get through it um

i had stuff wrote up it was probably best i didn't read it out

probably get kicked out of here so

um

you know i i'll share one thing to you guys not to you

um with xanna

so

I was working in North Dakota and came home

and Jazzy and Xana had

taken our son Elijah

and put him in a dress,

makeup, and it was, it was awful, you know.

I was like, I just, I, I don't know, she was funny.

I told her she'd be in the movies and be somebody great one day like that.

And now she is just above us as an angel with all the other beautiful kids.

So let's hold that to our hearts because this evil thing is not going to take nothing from us.

You,

man,

I don't know what my limits are here, but I'm really struggling, dude.

I am struggling.

So, I want to, I want to.

Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show.

We're listening here to Xana Crenodles,

stepdad Randy.

I love God.

I wouldn't take your life.

That's up to him.

But I guarantee you, you are weak.

God,

I would just give a moment, man, five minutes out in the woods.

Oh, man,

you're going to go to hell.

I know people believe in other stuff.

You're evil.

There's no place for you in heaven.

You took our children.

You are going to suffer, man.

I'm shaking because I want to reach out to you, but I just, I hope you feel my energy, okay?

Go to hell.

Next is Kara Northington, Santa's mother.

I'm Karen Northington.

I am Santa Cernodle's mother.

This letter is to you, really.

But it is for my daughter, who was murdered by you.

Today I stand before you.

The man who was responsible for murdering my beautiful daughter, Santa Cernodle.

My daughter was beautiful both inside and out.

She possessed love for those around her and had a light so bright it will live on forever in our hearts.

She brought joy and laughter to her friends, her family, and anyone in her presence.

Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ,

now has her in his loving arms in heaven

where she can never be harmed ever again for eternity.

Because of her, I came to know my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Because of her, many will come to Christ.

It is Christ who lives in me that has given me the strength to forgive you.

It was of no power of my own.

In return, the Lord has filled me with joy, hope, and peace that surpasses all understanding.

Jesus has allowed me to forgive you for murdering my daughter without you even being sorry

or asking for this.

This is only possible because he who lives in me is greater than any evil in this world.

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

I do not fear you or even

let you rent space in my head anymore.

This forgiveness has released me from any and all evil you have inflicted on me and my family.

It has allowed me to let

our Lord deal with you.

You have accepted a deal that will prevent you from receiving the death penalty

Nothing man can do to you can ever compare to the wrath of God.

Inevitably, you will stand before our Lord and will have to answer to him over the sins you have committed in murdering our children.

I pray you come to the end of yourself before that day.

Whether you like it or not, heaven is for real and so is hell.

The innocent life of Xana that you stole from myself and my family and the destruction of this

and the destruction it has caused,

I am washing my hands of you and turning you over to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

whom vengeance belongs to.

In closing, I want to read a passage from the Bible, Ephesians 6, King James Version.

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might.

Put on the whole armor of God that ye may be able to withstand the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world,

against spiritual wickedness and high places.

Wherefore, take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, that ye may be able to stand in the evil day.

I'm not going to share memories of Xana or any more

of the goodness of her with you because I do not want that to be in your head.

I don't want it to be in your head.

You don't deserve that.

You don't deserve our good memories that we have.

I do pray for you.

I pray that you come to the end of yourself.

I pray that before this life is over, that you ask our Lord and Savior in your heart to forgive you.

I do pray for that.

But after today, I wash my hands of you, and you are no longer a thing.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I don't believe the state has any other victim impact statement.

Right, the state can argue.

Thank you, Your Honor.

Just as a housekeeping matters start,

there will be the issue of restitution.

That is the documentation being gathered, and we ask if the court would defer that for 30 days so we can present it in an orderly fashion and make sure it's comprehensive for everyone.

Any objection to leaving restitution open in 60 days?

All right.

Thank you, Your Honor.

I think it's necessary and appropriate to share for everyone here, including the court,

the background that brings us in front of Your Honor today for these proceedings.

As the record reflects, and as everybody in this courtroom knows, the defendant has pleaded guilty to all five counts charged in the indictment.

Under oath before Your Honor, he has admitted that the charges against him are true.

He has reassured the court

that he has not been coerced or threatened to make those admissions.

And Your Honor did an extraordinary job in taking the pleas back on July 2nd.

We appreciate the court's discipline and insight.

The defendant has also waived appeal on the multitude of rulings from this court and Your Honor's predecessor in Leytaw County on dozens, literally dozens of motions seeking to dismiss the case, seeking to

control or limit evidence.

seeking to offer evidence that would not be appropriate.

And we appreciate the court's consistent rulings based on the law, based on the facts.

As Your Honor will recall, on June 18th, it's just really not that long ago, we appeared before this court for arguments on what became the defendant's final motions to this court.

Motion where they wanted to offer evidence suggesting that other people were responsible for the defendants' actions

and the motion seeking essentially an indefinite continuance of the trial.

It was readily apparent to all of us in the courtroom from Your Honor's comments that those motions were not going to be granted.

So we returned to Moscow

and continued with what we had been working on for months in preparation for trial.

We had no qualms about going to trial if trial was what was necessary and appropriate.

The following week after we were in court,

we were approached by the defense with an inquiry about a possible plea.

And I can tell the court this is the first suggestion ever that there was any consideration because indeed the defense had maintained from the beginning

that mister Coberger, the defendant, was factually innocent.

It's clear that the reality of the evidence and the case that had been investigated and prepared and that we were ready to present in court became a reality.

Our reaction,

among other things, was to reach out to all the families.

And in fact, later that week, on Thursday and Friday of that last week of June, we met with representatives by teams, virtual meetings, with representatives of all the families.

And we talked about the status of the case

and the upcoming trial and things that related to the trial.

And we also

let them know that there had been an inquiry about whether there might be an offer for a plea.

And we asked the family members for their thoughts and feelings.

And they were candid.

And they have been candid since, and we respect that.

And we understand,

recognize, and acknowledge

that there was a difference of opinion among representatives of the different families.

We understand that.

One of the challenges of this case, one of the unique things about this case, is we have

multiple victims, each unique unto themselves,

their families and friends unique unto themselves, and all of them entitled to their opinions, all of them entitled to their thoughts.

Over the following weekend, our prosecution team,

very

skilled attorneys who were personally as well as professionally deeply invested in this case met.

And we talked, and

the decision was reached.

Well, to start with, were there to be any sort of plea offer or discussion, there's only one possibility.

And that would be for the defendant to plead guilty straight up to all charges.

There would be no bargaining about counts.

There would be no bargaining about reduced sentences.

And so we made

the proposal to the defense

that if the defendant was willing to plead guilty up upfront to all five counts as charged and waive appeal

of the court's myriad decisions during the past two and a half plus years on all these motions that would have consumed years if not decades

of time in the future

By the end of the weekend, we were notified the defense that the defendant was prepared to plead guilty as charged

and factually acknowledge his responsibility in court for these horrible crimes.

Obviously, those discussions and negotiations were confidential.

And as Your Honor noted, I believe, that was necessarily so, because if

The defendant had decided not to plead guilty, it would have been devastating to our jury pool for there to be public information that there had been consideration by either party

to a plea resolution.

And protecting the prospective integrity of a trial after so many years was paramount.

So the end of the weekend came.

We notified the victims' families of what had occurred.

We recognize,

I recognize and acknowledge personally, and I respect the fact

that of these fine suffering people here, not everybody agreed with the decision we make.

I accept that.

It's my responsibility to the end.

I recognize that that's the duty of the office that I hold.

So now

it is time for the judicial system

to impose final judgment

and close the door on this chapter of these tragedies.

As the court is aware, by the agreement of the parties, it is the state's prayer

perhaps to have the elmo please turned on.

Thank you.

That on count one,

the felony burglary, that the court sentenced the defendant to the maximum period of 10 years fixed in the custody of the

Idaho Department of Correction.

Then, on count two,

that the court sentenced the defendant to fixed life for the murder

of Matty Mogan.

On Count 3,

that the court sentenced the defendant

to fixed life for the murder of Kaylee Gonzalez.

On Count 4,

that the court sentenced the defendant

to fixed life

for the murder

of Zanette Kernhodl.

On count five,

that the court sentenced the defendant to fixed life

for the murder

of Ethan Chapin.

And the state further praised that these sentences

be ordered to run consecutively, back to back, not at the same time,

to recognize and respect

the unique individuality of each of these beautiful young people whose lives were taken brutally and for no reason.

And hopefully now,

as we have heard

earlier this morning,

it is time to afford the families and the friends and the community and the state of Idaho

and the nation and the world to move forward.

We can't undo and we can never undo the horror of what occurred on the early morning hours of November 13th,

2022, at 1122 King Street in Moscow, Idaho.

For a long time, the presiding district judge in Layton County was John Stegner, who eventually became a member and a justice of the Idaho Supreme Court.

And Judge Justice

Stegner

often observed

that even God cannot change the past.

But everyone in this room

has the ability to take themselves forward and we want the judicial system to afford them the opportunity today to do that.

From today forward, our memories should be focused

on these innocent victims whose lives were taken, on their families, on their friends, on the community.

The court has heard discussion, talk today, reminisces today,

about a special family that our victims shared, not just their natural legal and biological families, not just their university family within their sororities, for example.

But this family.

This is the picture

taken on November 12th,

2022

of the special family of 1122

King Road.

And you can see all six of these dynamic, vibrant, loving,

special, innocent faces taken together just across the street from their residence and barely 12 hours

before four of them would be brutally murdered in their sleep.

They've been described consistently as being bright, caring, vivacious,

with futures we can only imagine now.

But they were

and they remain a special family that I think we should all recognize and appreciate.

So it's time to move forward.

There have been a number of statements directed specifically at the defendant today.

I have one last thought.

After Your Honor imposes judgment and sentences the defendant to spend the rest of his life in prison.

In other words, sentence the defendant to die in prison.

He's going to stand up

in the belly chains and leg irons that he's wearing today.

And he's going to be escorted into the custody of the Idaho Department of Correction.

And the door will close behind him

forever.

That is the closure

that we seek

that all of these people, these loving friends and family deserve

so that we can move forward.

Thank you, Honor.

Thank you.

All right, does the defense have evidence to present today?

No, I have to comment.

All right.

Does the fence

wish to make argument today?

Governor, we do not wish to make argument.

Mr.

Koberger, along with his legal team, is prepared for the court's interjudgment these days.

All right, Mr.

Koberger, you have an opportunity to make a statement if you wish to.

I take it you are declining.

I respectfully decline.

Please.

All right, let me

start

this morning

by

acknowledging and thanking

those that have come here today in support of their loved ones.

And I appreciate your courage and your strength.

And I hope that you are able to move on as best as possible.

Thank counsel for the professionalism that they've exhibited throughout this case.

It's been my great honor to preside

in this case

and to help bring,

to the extent possible,

some

resolution and hopefully justice to this case.

During the quiet morning hours of November 13, 2022, a faceless coward breached the tranquility of six beautiful young people

and senselessly slaughtered them, four of them.

Who committed this unspeakable evil was unknown for several weeks, but due to the killer's incompetence and outstanding police work by numerous local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies, the person that slithered through that sliding glass door at 1122 King Road now stands before the world and this court unmasked.

This unfathomable and senseless act of evil has caused immeasurable pain and loss.

No parent should ever have to bury their child.

This is the greatest tragedy that can be inflicted upon a person.

Parents who took their children to college in a truck filled with moving boxes had to bring them home in hearses lined with coffins.

The loss this killer inflicted was not just the death of these people's children, siblings, grandchildren, as we've heard today.

It has ripped a hole in their soul, destroying a special part of their very essence.

Any person who is a parent defines themselves foremost as such.

It is their existence and purpose of being.

And it has been stolen from these parents.

None of us have experienced the loss these victims have in the unspeakable way that they have.

And therefore, none of us can, nor should we, question the way in which they have handled their loss.

Whether that be in private mourning, removed as far as possible from this media circus,

or in front of a camera demanding retribution with the loudest megaphone.

I've listened intently to the stories and pain that have been shared today

with great awe at the courage and resilience of the surviving family members of those wonderful children.

I've listened also to the surviving roommates.

both in person and through their friends.

And I can't think of how, frankly, courageous they have been despite the hell that they have faced by uncaring people

who have come up with all kinds of crazy theories

about two kids simply being kids.

The parents, siblings, siblings, and other family members who have spoken today

are designated as victims in our legal system.

But going forward, I hope that they can shed that label as it gives too much power to the evil that condemned them to that role.

They are and should be known as survivors, fighters, and foremost as witnesses to the tremendous lives of value and unbounded promise of these four young people.

But those speaking today and those who did not speak but who carry the same burden, this same loss, now carry forward the memories of these now perpetually young people, these forever children.

These survivors carry the responsibility of ensuring that the voices

of these children, Maddie, Kaylee, Zianna, and Ethan, are never forgotten and the positive impacts that they have had on so many lives are never minimized.

and that the love they shared, the light that they shined onto others, is forever celebrated.

As we sit here today, this case is ending, and we are now certain who committed these unspeakable acts of evil, but we don't know,

and what we may never know is why.

I share the desire expressed by others to understand the why, but upon reflection, it seems to me, and this is just my own opinion, that by continuing to focus on why, we continue to give Mr.

Kohlberger relevance.

We give him agency and we give him power.

The need to know what is inherently not understandable makes us dependent upon the defendant to provide us with a reason, and that gives him the spotlight, the attention, and the power he appears to crave.

Yet even if I could force him to speak, which legally I cannot, How could anyone ever be assured that what he speaks is the truth?

Do we really believe, after all of this, he's capable of speaking the truth or of giving up something of himself to help the very people whose lives he destroyed?

Rather, I suspect the so-called reason would be dished out in enticing, self-serving, and aggrandizing untruthful bits,

leaving people wanting more information, more insight, and thus enhancing even further the power he seeks to hold.

Even if we could get truthful insight into his why, I suspect it would not in any way quench one's thirst for actually understanding why in the first instance.

Because there is no reason for these crimes that could approach anything

resembling rationality.

No conceivable reason could make any sense.

And in the end, the more we struggle to seek explanation for the unexplainable, the more we try to extract a reason, the more power and control we give to him.

In my view, the time has now come to end Mr.

Kohlberger's 15 minutes of fame.

It's time that he be consigned to the ignominy and isolation of perpetual incarceration.

I know there has been concern about him collaborating on books or movies or other media projects, and I truly hope that someone does not stoop to affording him this spotlight that he desires in the name of cliques,

royalties, or profits.

While criminal behavioralists should study him away from the spotlight in an attempt to prevent other would-be killers from acting on their worst impulses, there should be no need for that to spill over into the public eye.

The great Idaho jurist Edward Lodge was known for trying to find something positive about every person he ever sentenced.

And with over a half a century as a trial judge, that was a lot of people.

This was often challenging, and I recall in one case he said that the best he could come up with was the defendant had good penmanship.

Truth be told, I'm unable to come up with anything redeeming about Mr.

Koberger because his grotesque acts of evil have buried and hidden anything that might have been good or intrinsically human about him.

His actions have made him the worst of the worst.

Even in pleading guilty, he is giving nothing hinting of remorse or redemption, nothing suggesting even a recognition or understanding, let alone regret for, the pain that he has caused.

And therefore, I will not attempt to speak about him further, other than to simply sentence him so that he is forever removed from civilized society.

And accordingly, based upon his conduct and based upon the record before this court,

recognizing the standards that govern this court's sentencing decisions as set forth in State B2Hill, I hereby sentence Mr.

Kohlberger as follows.

On Count 1, burglary, 10 years fixed,

zero years indeterminate.

I also impose a fine of $50,000.

Count two, first-degree murder of Madison Mogan.

I sentence the defendant to a fixed term of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole, a fine of $50,000, and a civil penalty of $5,000 payable to the family of the victim.

On Count 3,

for first-degree murder of Kayleigh Gonsalves, I sentenced the defendant to a fixed term of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole, a fine of $50,000, and a civil penalty of $5,000 payable to the victim of the family.

or to the family of the victim, pardon me.

On Count 4, for the first-degree murder of Santa Carnoto, I sentence the defendant to a fixed term of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole, a fine of $50,000 and a civil penalty of $5,000 payable to the family of the victim.

On Count 5 for the first degree murder of Ethan Chapin, I sentence the defendant to a fixed term of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole, a fine of $50,000 and a civil penalty of $5,000 payable to the family of the victim.

The sentences on counts one, one, two, three, four, and five shall run consecutively to one another.

Restitution will be left open for 60 days.

Defendant will be required to submit a DNA sample and a right thumb impression to the Department of Corrections and comply with the DNA Database Act.

I remand the defendant to the custody of the Idaho State Board of Corrections for to be imprisoned in an appropriate facility in execution of the sentence where he will remain until he dies.

Though you have waived your right to appeal, you do have a right to file a notice of appeal, and any such appeal must be filed within 42 days of the date of the written judgment,

which will be entered

shortly hereafter.

Though the appeal, you should be aware, may be deemed a violation of the plea agreement, and so I certainly suggest you discuss that with counsel if that is your desire.

I ask the

media and public present to allow the families to be escorted out first before they leave.

Again, thank you to everyone for your stories today.

I am strengthened by them and I am encouraged by your humanity and strength.

God bless you.

We're adjourned.

Incredible day court in Boise, Idaho, not far from where these crimes were committed.

In Moscow, Idaho, where four college students with everything in front of them, happy lives, beautiful friendships, boyfriends, girlfriends, families who love them, went to college one day.

And for some reason, as the judge points out, that will never fully understand,

had their lives snuffed out at 4:12 in the morning by that thing sitting there at counsel's table wearing orange, Brian Kohlberger.

He didn't speak at all, except for the one line when the court said, Mr.

Kohlberger, do you wish to make a statement?

And like the good little schoolboy, he said, I respectfully decline.

Still looking for some sort of pat on the top of the head, still acting like the PhD student who could get an A for his classroom behavior and trying to fool us into thinking he's respectful in any way.

Here's Here's that moment.

All right, Mr.

Koberger, you have an opportunity to make a statement if you wish to.

I take it you are declining.

I respectfully decline.

What's that about?

Who does he think he's fooling?

What a joke this man is.

And I use that term very loosely.

The judge sentencing him, as expected, to the maximum on all counts, 10 years in prison on the burglary count, life without, well, he didn't say without parole.

Talk to Matt about that in a minute, but life for Maddie, life for Kaylee, life for Zana, life for Ethan to run consecutively, meaning one after the other, along with $50,000 in fines for each victim and

a $5,000 civil penalty to the family.

This is the end, technically, guys.

My panel's back with me, Phil Holloway, Howard Bloom, and Matt Murphy.

This is the end.

I don't know.

It feels,

I guess it feels unsatisfying.

Matt, you've been through this so many times.

Does it always feel unsatisfying?

Well, it's always a little antaclimactic when there's a plea, Megan.

I think that if this was a sensing after a jury trial,

we might feel a little bit different because we would have really seen the exhaustion of all the evidence that was available.

We would have seen and heard every detail of this investigation.

And I just, again, I've said it before, but kudos to the police police here they really are the heroes on this uh from the local police department to the state troopers of idaho to the fbi they really did an outstanding job and i hope people remember that the only reason why we had the sensing is because of the hard work of those men and women and i i was really grateful to see the the family members acknowledge them in that even um even Mr.

Gonzalez, as angry as he was, he gave a shout out to the police, which I thought was

really dignified.

But I'm just, I'm struck by this judge.

It's important for people to remember that all judges are not created equal.

And this, Judge Hipler did a fantastic job.

I thought that his comments were exactly on point.

And I think that he really spoke to all of us when he said, you know, the more we wonder why in something that he would never tell the truth on and is really unexplainable anyway, the more we continue to give him power.

Now, everybody wants to know why because we want to prevent it.

We want to see it coming.

We want to know what what to look for to prevent the next Brian Koberger.

But

I thought that he was outstanding.

And remember, he did not have to impose that.

This was discretionary with the court.

That was one of my criticisms of Thompson at the beginning.

He surrendered that power to sentence to the, they call it fixed life in Idaho, which is life without possibility of parole.

The court imposed that upon its own discretion.

So hats off to the court.

I thought that judge really did an outstanding job today, and he did exactly the right thing.

And I thought his comments are something that we should all think about.

It was.

It was a new perspective setter because we're all so unsatisfied without with him not having to explain why, but it was a good reminder of like, who cares?

Who cares?

What could he possibly say that would satisfy any of us?

You know, this Cretan, this human excrement sitting there.

I don't know what happened to him, but he doesn't seem human to me.

He seems otherworldly.

and i don't mean that in a complimentary way he just seems like something frankly that needs to be snuffed out but the next best thing howard is to have him rot in prison for the rest of his life and and i'm picturing the door closing behind him as the judge said

i'm from the the set that finds this deeply unsatisfying there were two diametrically opposed positions presented today.

One was by the Gonsalves family that raised questions, specific questions they wanted answers.

The judge, in effect, said, let's move on.

He said that literally.

Let's move on.

We can forget about it.

Well, I think it's too soon to forget about it.

Yes, we'll never know a rational reason why he did it, but there still are other questions remaining.

Where is the knife?

How did he cover up his tracks?

I would like more answers.

I think the people of Idaho, the families, and all of us, the public, should have been presented with more answers.

You know, I did think it was a little odd, Phil, that the prosecutor Bill Thompson spent a good chunk of his closing remarks trying to talk about how he notified the families of the pending plea.

It was like he was trying to rehabilitate himself in response to Steve Gonsalves' complaints about the way the plea was handled.

I just thought that was totally inappropriate.

It reminded me of the judge at when Kohlberger, you know, pleaded guilty, making it all about the phone calls he'd received from people who are out.

Like, stop making it about yourself.

This isn't about you rehabbing you.

You know, I've been pretty critical about this prosecution team, not for the quality of the case they put together, because as others have correctly mentioned, they did a great job along with the law enforcement who investigated this case.

But from a PR perspective, I think that they really dropped the ball.

And to see an extension of that today, it was almost like you saw a little bit of grandstanding uh this is not a there's no jury present uh it's just a judge this is a non-jury proceeding so it was a bit over the top in terms of theatrics and and as you mentioned it seemed to be aimed at rehabilitating their own image uh for for those of us in the public who are being somewhat critical they in my view should have had all of the families in agreement on this plea deal or there would be no deal that's just my opinion.

That's how I would have played it if I had been the prosecutor, because that would have perhaps left us with perhaps some little bit more increased measure of satisfaction.

We're all left unsatisfied right now.

Think about how the families must feel as they're leaving the courthouse.

But had there been a trial and a sentencing hearing with

evidence and aggravation, we might have known a lot more.

Because as we go forward today, we're all left with these lingering questions of why?

Why did this have to happen?

Why did it happen?

And because I think the decisions the prosecutor made, we're going to be left with these answers.

And let me just point this one thing out.

This court today rendered a judgment.

There can be a judgment in any case.

But when we speak of what justice is, was justice delivered?

You know, justice is one of those words that's incapable of being defined, and it's in the eye of the beholder.

But I would submit that there is no amount of justice, whatever it may be, that can possibly apply to this case because the magnitude of the destruction, not only of the individuals' lives who were taken, but the

destruction that is left in the wake of this evil, evil, evil act is not capable of receiving adequate justice, in my view.

So

there's, I think, always going to be some measure of dissatisfaction because justice just can't address this kind of evil.

So well said.

It's just, it captures what I'm feeling right now.

When I listened to, for example, Kaylee's sister speak, I felt like, yes, this is what I want.

You know, I want to hear him humiliated.

I'm enjoying this, that piece.

But everything else has just left me with this empty feeling of like,

why?

Not demanding an explanation, but just the, you know, the human evil, the evil that walks amongst us as human beings and the snuffing out of these four lives with nothing but promise in front of them.

And Steve Gonsalves was right.

They did a very good job, those families, of getting out the videos of those four kids and helping us get to know them, Howard, and fall in love with the four of them and their huge.

thousand watt smiles and the the joy they clearly felt on the idaho campus and the football games they celebrated and the dance parties the one sister mentioned you know like these these were jubilant, really happy, lovely kids, just American kids trying to get an education and have a good time.

And he resented it without him saying anything.

We know you've written about it.

He couldn't stand their happiness.

I mean, Steve, to my mind, is a hero throughout this whole thing.

He refused to just move on.

Everyone else, the judge, the prosecutor, they kept on repeating that phrase, it's time to move on.

It's time to move on.

Well, the reality reality is none of these families are ever going to be able to move on.

I don't think the town of Moscow will be able to move on.

And I think we should have been given some answers.

You know, the sister, Olivia, raised the questions.

The questions were, as you pointed out, very similar to the questions Kohlberg included in his master's dissertation that he distributed prisons.

He should be asked those questions.

We should be get those answers.

You know, that's the other thing.

The judge is like, well, I really hope no journalist or, you know, publishing house gives him the opportunity to give an interview or write a book.

First of all, he's not allowed to make money on a book.

That's illegal.

But that's not to say, I guess one couldn't be published where he wouldn't get paid.

And he certainly is going to get the knock on the door from journalists up and down the spectrum and Catherine Rumsfeld.

or Rumsfeld or whatever her last name, or unless I'm forgetting her last name.

Thank you, Ramslin.

His former master's uh professor at DeSales University has said she'd like to study him.

He'll love all of that.

Look, that's just human nature.

People want to study serial killers, it's a natural thing we want to understand.

But I will say to this: Judge Hippler, you know, what would have made it slightly less likely is if your DA required him to really cop to the crime and explain himself at this sentencing hearing, Matt.

You know, like him

allowing this defendant to remain an enigma, to not say anything, is only going to make the press press and everyone else more interested in him.

Yeah, can I, I want to add on to that a little bit, Megan.

And I want to be fair here because it's a tough job.

You're the elected DA.

You got a lot going on.

You have the families.

There are good reasons.

Look, when it comes to appellate issues, things like that, all of that is real and it gives some finality.

I hate the word closure.

He used it.

I think that's a trope.

These families, like Howard pointed out, there's no closure for them.

But so that said, I want to be fair to the prosecutor.

However, that little speech that he gave,

that performative aspect to that, first of all, the seminal case in the United States, okay,

tends to be out of Idaho.

It's a Sonia Sotomayor, 2019 opinion from the United States Supreme Court called Garza versus Idaho.

Thompson made this big point of saying he waives his appellate rights.

The case in the United States is out of Idaho that says you can't actually ever waive your appellate rights.

Okay, so that's not real.

And it is the law that he can still, as the court pointed out at the end, you got 42 days to file your notice of appeal.

It might breach the plea because that essentially is a contract, but now it's post-sentencing.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see him file notice of appeal.

And you can do that.

And that's for direct appeal.

We still have the entire habeas process, which is another way to challenge a conviction.

And Thompson gave that up with his plea.

He did.

He did.

He knows he did.

And look, there's good reasons for, good reasons against.

I know Philip here.

I wouldn't have given him this deal.

You know, death penalty cases are hard.

That goes with the job.

Dealing with family members who disagree, you know, also that's a part of the job.

But another thing that really does disturb me a little bit on this is there's a saying, Megan.

So goes California, it goes the rest of the nation.

We've all heard that before.

There are huge movements and legislative pushes in the state of California to eliminate LWAP or Life Without Possibility Parole as a sentence.

40 years is a long time.

And the last time we talked about this, I said, I think he's going to get a parole hearing one day.

And under current Idaho law,

he will not.

The way the court did this, they call it fixed life.

Almost every other state calls it life without possibility parole.

I think it's North Carolina calls it life without mercy.

Every state has its own.

Hold that thought.

Hold that thought.

I want to hear the end of this, but I'm about to hit a hard break on SiriusXM.

We'll continue on pod and youtube.com slash Megan Kelly.

SiriusXMers, thank you for tuning in and we'll see you over at YouTube and on pod.

And we're back, Matt.

Go ahead and finish your thought.

The DA's sort of statement that he waived his appellate rights is just, he did it on paper, but it

doesn't actually mean anything.

He can still appeal.

It may be a tougher appellate road.

He can still do a direct appeal.

He just has to accuse his defense lawyers of ineffective assistance to counsel.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that.

And then, of course, 40 years is an awful long time for them to get an opportunity

to switch the law.

You know, and look, the Menendez brothers got Life Without Possibility Parole in California, and we know what just happened there.

There have been significant legislative actions that allow people with Life Without Possibility Parole sentences in other states to now get them.

So that was, he stood up, he said that.

It sounded awful good.

However,

you know, there's a lot more to it.

And I hope it's the end.

I hope him going away and the door closing and all that stuff is the end.

But legally, it's really not.

Can I add, let me add something to that if I can.

I'm glad that

we're talking about ineffective assistance of counsel.

This, of course, being a Sixth Amendment right that you have under the U.S.

Constitution and each state has their own.

All he would really need to do is say, say, look, we had identified four other people and we were prepared to blame them at trial as being potential the other, the real killer.

Okay.

But my lawyers talked me out of going forward with the trial, even though I wanted to say that other people

committed this crime.

And then you've got that could really happen.

Just to interrupt you for one quick second, that really could happen because Howard was reporting on this leading up to the trial that Ann Taylor was jumping up and down, seemingly wanting him to plead this out.

And Kohlberger, there was talk about whether she'd have to like try to get him declared incompetent or do something around his alleged autism to try to force this plea deal on him.

Keep going, Phil.

Yeah, so

he can raise this issue on collateral attack on what we call a habeas kind of an appeal.

And he's not essentially, I think, breaching the plea deal because he's not necessarily appealing any of the pretrial rulings made in the case.

He's saying that my rights were violated today during this sentencing process because my lawyers didn't do their job.

Now, that's not saying, I'm not saying that's the case necessarily, but that's the argument that could be made.

So for the prosecutor to sit there and say for everybody's benefit, I guess, that there's just not going to be any appeal was a little bit disingenuous and it certainly doesn't reflect the law that exists in the United States, as was correctly pointed out.

And it also, you know, just to wrap up this point, if you're going to file a motion saying to the judge, look, we want to blame three or four or five other people for this, and we've, we've got some evidence of it, you better have really, really good evidence because when

that motion fails and then you're on the eve of trial and your client figures out, okay, the limelight is over, it's time to put up or shut up and we're at the foot of the cross.

You look like a fool for bringing this motion saying we've got evidence that four or five other people may have been the guilty party here uh and then you just kind of immediately switch gear to admit under oath that no uh this individual client did in fact commit this crime exactly as alleged so i'm like why do you even try to go down that road unless you've got really really solid evidence of it I think

I did that.

I'm sorry.

I think it's Taton to say you look like a fool.

I mean, that's something pernicious and malicious.

They put four names into that document.

The document and the motion, it's been redacted, but someday this might very well come out.

Those four people will be branded as for life, as possible suspects, possible killers, and yet the judge said there's no evidence.

That was a very

pernicious act on the part of Ann Taylor.

I think it's unforgivable.

Well, let me add to that just one other point.

You heard a lot of people reference it.

The DA referenced it.

The judge referenced it.

Some of the family members mentioned the media attention.

And in this very interesting Amazon Prime documentary on this case that just hit,

forgive me, I can't remember the name of it.

It's like about the Idaho 4, but it's on Amazon Prime right now.

One Night in Idaho, thank you, my team.

They talk a lot about the online...

crime sleuth community and how rabid they've been and frankly irresponsible some have really been in reporting on this case and pointing the finger at anyone and everyone and sort of dragging innocent young men who are just standing there into this case as alleged suspects and terrorizing you know the other roommates and some of the friends and

like the one guy who was just the sober driver at the local fraternity where Ethan Chapins

he was, I think he was a member there, his name was dragged through the mud and so on.

So they did a point about all those media people and how irresponsible they were.

I mean, I think that's a legitimate point.

I can't remember why I'm raising this, but, oh, that's why, that's why.

Because

now

Ann Taylor, you know, she puts in a document these four other names that eventually is going to go out there.

And what do you think that online community, the ones who are irresponsible, they're not all, is going to do with those names?

I literally am still getting texts from random people, some I know, some I don't, rejecting this, telling me he didn't, he either didn't do it or he didn't do it alone.

I mean, these are smart people who just aren't accepting this because of Ann Taylor.

You're right, Howard, those four people are about to get their names dragged through the mud even more because she irresponsibly threw them out there.

Go ahead, Howard, and then I'll go to you, Matt.

Well, I mean, as a journalist, you don't really move on.

I mean, I listened to the proceedings today and I heard one thing, one thing that I never heard before, that there was a weapon used on Kelly.

now two two weapons

well the knife and then he had something else in his hand uh i think the sister said she said what what was the second

we heard testimony about a vacuum cleaner dylan has said that a vacuum cleaner she thought she saw a vacuum cleaner in his hand did he bring a vacuum cleaner in did he hit her with a vacuum cleaner savagely beat her uh the father said her cheekbones were broken Is that how he was able to get out without leaving a trail?

These are questions I, as a journalist, and I think the Gonzales family too, wanted answers.

And I don't know if we should be moving on after three

years.

Before I toss it to you, Matt, I do want to play a sound bite on that.

Steve Gonzalez spoke to Ashley Banfield and did fill in some of the details around what he'd been told about Kaylee's murder.

She was on the top floor with Maddie Mogan, believed to be the main target of the attack.

Here it is, Sat one.

People so angry at what was happening in that courtroom that they would literally pick up their phone and call us and say, this is what's on Brian's phone.

This is what he was searching.

This individual was sexually motivated.

I don't care what Thompson said.

Coming out of hearings, there would be people who would call you and say, I don't like what's happening in that courtroom.

I know what's on his phone.

I know.

What did you learn from those phone calls without divulging who it was who called?

Just weird, weird porn fetishes, but two of the fetishes were in that room.

Drunk passed out girls and gagging girls.

And those are two things that were part of that crime scene.

So for Thompson to say that there was no sexual assault.

Of course, there wasn't.

He didn't have enough time.

Somebody came up there.

That was additional color.

But he also did talk about how it was clear Kaylee had been beaten.

I think that he said her nose had been broken.

Clearly, there had been some sort of a fight, some sort of an altercation.

Go ahead, Matt.

Well, I think that that hits on exactly what we were discussing last time is

the use of that word, that there's no sexual component, I think that that was really inappropriate by the DA because you can't get into Koberger's head.

And we've heard those rumors consistently that Mr.

Gonzalvez was just talking about there, that there were porn searches that were found on the computers and phones.

And I can tell you, Maggie, four years in sexual assault and 17 and homicide, unless they get rid of the computers, there's always porn.

There's always something on there, especially when you're dealing with people that are motivated by sexual predation.

So

I think that was a very poor choice of words by Thompson in the original plea.

He didn't repeat that again today, but look, one of the things that he did say, you know, he talked about

we didn't reduce the sentences.

What did he say?

He said,

no bargaining about reduced sentences.

It's like, dude, you gave him the biggest reduced sentence.

You came off death.

I mean,

I don't know what he was talking about there unless he's referring to the specific counts.

And sorry, again, I don't want to be overly critical here, but that's called pleading to the sheet.

That's something that happens in every courtroom every day by prosecutors.

There's nothing heroic about that.

It's like, you want us to come up the biggest potential sentence in a state that might actually execute him?

Of course he's going to plead to the sheet.

So that I thought was really...

That was designed.

That language, I think, was designed for the general public because there's a lot of lawyers who practice criminal law, I guarantee across America, that we're kind of rolling their eyes a little bit on that.

And again, guys got a tough job.

There are advantages certainly to taking a plea.

My Rodney O'Call case, like we talked about,

I did the third version of that.

It was reversed twice.

He was convicted twice, sentenced to death twice.

I did the third trial, and it was brutal on the families.

All of that stuff is real.

But again, we talked about this.

I don't know what changed behind the scenes other than just Koberger coming and want to make a deal.

And it sounds like nothing.

That's it.

And Bill Thompson not wanted to try the case.

I did find the comment that Steve Gonsalves made to People Magazine.

Well, sorry, People Magazine wrote up an interview he gave to the Today Show where he said, he and Christy Gonsalves.

said the coroner gave the parents a breakdown of the wounds 21-year-old Kaylee suffered.

Quote, she had definitely been stabbed multiple times, and they kind of described it as a drowning that can occur.

But she did say gagging.

Kohlberger struck her in the face.

Christy Gonzalves added, Kaylee had a broken nose, septal hematomas, asphyxial injuries, and defense wounds on her arms.

She was stabbed many, many times.

How many, we don't know.

And that's where you come in, Howard, where you're saying Steve Gonsalves asked you if you could find out that he's relying on you.

They're still trying to find things out.

And today they revealed for the first time, at least, that there was perhaps something else in the hands that they used to beat Kayleigh.

I'd like to hear more about that, but instead we've been told it's time to move on.

I think he's

thinking.

Here's the sister, Olivia, in a series of questions she posed to Brian Kohlberger directly raising some of these points.

Some of these might be familiar, so sit up straight when I talk to you.

How was your life right before you murdered my sisters?

Did you prepare for the crime before leaving your apartment?

Please detail what you were thinking and feeling at this time.

Why did you choose my sisters?

Before making your move, did you approach my sisters?

Detail what you were thinking and feeling.

Before leaving their home, is there anything else you did?

Where is the murder weapon?

The clothes you wore that night?

What did you bring into the house with you?

What was the second weapon you used on Kaylee?

What were Kaylee's last words?

If you were really smart, do you think you'd be here right now?

What's it like needing this much attention just to feel real?

Ugh.

I mean, as someone who's put these psychopaths in jail, Matt, How do you think that made him feel?

Well, look, every family member, Megan, winds up landing, anybody that goes through something like this, they initially land somewhere on a spectrum between just supreme grief and supreme anger.

And a lot of them will sort of change on that scale over the course of the proceedings and the course of time.

I actually really thought that was.

incredibly powerful for her to do that.

And I think that's the purpose of a victim impact statement, because that young woman, Olivia, will be able to go through the rest of her life, the rest of her life, knowing that he had to sit there and listen.

And again, when we're talking about the psychopath, they have no capacity for empathy, but their narcissism is off the charts.

So to have a, as you pointed out, Megan, a very attractive young woman, Olivia, speak to him like that in a setting where he had to sit and listen to him, that stung because that will impact his sense of grandiosity.

And she really just laid him and laid him low.

I mean, I was

kind of cheering for her her as she was doing that, taking notes.

That was awesome.

And I think that if he, if there's anything when he gets on that bus to go to whatever prison they send him to, that's going to be echoing around in his mind, it's going to be the words of Olivia Gonzalez.

I have to say, I thought it was a courageous act, too, because he is a quadruple murderer.

And I mean, I just continue to think back to his first question when he got arrested, which was, is anyone else in custody?

And so, you know, there is at least a question mark lingering over the case about whether somebody helped him in some way.

And I just thought that's very brave of her to be so provocative and antagonistic toward who we know is a man who's a quadruple murderer and has zero empathy.

And she's a young woman.

I mean,

the piece of it,

her testimonial is the one that everybody's going to remember.

It was extraordinary.

But

it was important also to have the full panoply of emotion filled because we also saw

what this

thing

did to, for example, Dylan Mortensen.

I mean, and Dylan's so interesting.

She's one of the two surviving roommates.

There was Bethany, who was in the basement, who didn't hear a thing.

And then there was Dylan.

And Dylan showed up and spoke her statement herself.

And she's been at the center of the storm since these murders happened because she saw him.

He got into that house, we believe around 4:12 a.m.

He left within 12 to 18 minutes at most later.

And he, upon leaving, passed Dylan Mortensen in the hallway.

She didn't know what she was seeing.

She's the one who described him as wearing some sort of like a balaclava or a mask with bushy eyebrows.

Howard pointing out she later, Vicki Ward reported that she believed Dylan did.

He was holding some sort of a vacuum cleaner upon exiting.

We've never heard her.

We've never, she hasn't given an interview.

We haven't heard anything from her.

She shows up today, and that woman's anguish was palpable.

It was a reminder that he took four lives, but in some ways he ruined far more than four.

I'm just going to play a soundbite from her and then you can take it, Phil.

Here's part of the Dylan Mortensen impact statement montage.

It's SOT 21.

My nervous system never got the message that it is over.

And it won't let me forget what he did to them.

He is a hollow vessel, something less than human.

A body without empathy, without remorse.

He chose destruction.

He chose evil.

He may have taken so much from me, but he will never get to take my voice.

He will never take the memories I had with them.

He will never erase the love we shared.

the laughs we had, or the way they made me feel seen and whole.

Those things are mine.

they are sacred and he will never touch them

oh both boshe and the other roommate fell testifying that for a year after this happened they had to sleep in the bed with their parents

you know

it to take someone's life obviously is one of the worst things that you could ever do to someone but i think you could make the argument that doing to her what koberger did to her it may be even worse because the people who have passed away, they're not hurting or suffering in the physical sense anymore, but she is and she's got to carry that with her for the rest of her natural life.

And those of us who are parents, like in my case of a soon-to-be college-aged child, you know, this is the worst nightmare for any parent.

You want what's best for your family.

You want what's best for your kids.

You want your kids to go out into the world and succeed and to

be happy.

And that's the most important thing.

You want your kids to be happy, but there's no amount of counseling or no therapy that can ever help undo what Koberger did to her and can make her happy.

And so, you know, that's, this all goes back to part of the problem that I have with this plea deal in the first place.

We're just left with so many.

questions

that might help some of these people move forward in at least maybe a little bit more satisfactory fashion.

The prosecutor had every reason, I think, to go forward with a trial.

Not all the questions would have been answered, but a lot of them would.

We would not be talking with the people

about

how many stab wounds or was he carrying a vacuum cleaner?

We would know the answers to a lot of this

if there had been a trial.

And maybe in the weeks and months and years to come,

maybe the families will be provided with the evidence that they didn't see at the trial that didn't happen.

And maybe they'll be able to provide it to the public.

Maybe journalists will be able to get their hands on some of this stuff now that the gag order has been released.

But remember, it's still all in the possession, custody, and control of the prosecution.

And it's really going to be up to them

how to get this information out into the public if they're willing to do it at all.

And I think they probably have some things that they just, to protect themselves, they don't want the public to find out about.

I think that there was some

hesitancy about the prosecution.

I'll just, that's the nicest word I can think of right now, some hesitancy to move forward with the trial.

I don't know if it's they didn't feel they were capable or they were somehow scared of going to trial,

but they certainly seemed to jump on Koberger's.

Koberger's really the one that made the offer.

Say, look, I'll plead guilty if you take death off the table.

And it's almost like Koberger's team is making the plea offer and the prosecutor accepting his terms.

And so, yeah, they activated.

The prosecution was relieved.

Yeah, they act like they're the ones that made some kind of plea deal.

I see it the other way around.

I see Koberger made the plea deal and the prosecutor accepted that.

You're so right.

Go ahead, Howard.

That's exactly right.

I mean, and for the prosecution, for Bill Thompson to talk about,

we'll move on.

The door is closed.

The judge said that.

Well, we all heard Dylan Morton's statements.

No one is moving on.

This is going to linger forever.

And the only thing that's going to happen is the possibility of getting answers to specific questions.

Well, that's going to be a lot harder now.

I think

the families and the citizens of Idaho and the public have been

disserved by what was done in the courtroom today.

Now was the time.

You know, it's creepy.

In the movie that I keep referencing one night in Idaho, they have a very interesting segment with the women who ran one of these public chat groups about the murders.

These two women run multiple true crime blogs, and they added this one after the murders.

This was the forum into which Papa Roger appeared posting his theories about the crime.

It's clearly Brian Kohlberger.

And they walk you through his posts, which really kind of gave up the game.

First of all, the photo, like the sort of icon that's used to represent Papa Roger looks just like Brian Kohlberger.

I mean, identical.

And second of all, his posts know way more than any civilian who didn't commit this crime should have known long prior to the release of that police affidavit, which had the details of the crime.

I mean, he was already

speculating about he knew it was a knife.

He speculated that they found the knife sheath.

He asked some of those same weird questions that he asked in that questionnaire.

He wanted to know what do you think was in the mind of the killer when he walked into the room.

They were very, like, it was more than I'd ever heard from the Papa Roger account as these two women who ran it went through his questioning.

And then, as as soon as Brian Kohlberger was arrested,

dried up.

Papa Roger never posted again, which tells me he wants attention.

He loves reveling in the crime, Matt.

He seems to have been getting off on it because at that point, he was getting away with the crime.

So, why would a killer like this who had, as of then, gotten away with it, be so provocative to be making these posts in a public online crime forum?

Well, that goes back to Jack the Ripper, right?

Megan, it's like there was, he would, that person wrote to the police, and they think that those letters came from the actual killer.

We saw that in the Zodiac killer, too.

That's, that speaks to the narcissism, the arrogance, and the grandiosity of the great American psychopath, or even, you know, outside of America,

it's the mindset of these guys.

And it's like I'm thinking of the thumbs up photo after the murders, Matt.

You know, as you say, the grandiosity, it's his selfie with the thumbs up.

Like, yeah, he's celebrating himself.

Keep going.

Yeah, it looks like a vampire in that too.

And look, Megan, that photo,

there's a very common thing.

And

it comes from a good place, I think, with most people.

But when they're considering death versus life in prison, one of the things you hear very commonly is people go, well, the worst thing I can imagine is if I was in a cell and I had to think about what I did every single day.

That's imposing humanity onto the mind of the psychopath.

They don't think that way.

It's a mistake.

It comes from, it's almost like psychological projection.

We think about ourselves and we think about how we have the capacity for guilt.

They don't think that way.

And the arrogance of posting stuff to an online chat room, I mean, it's just, it's a modern version of the same thing.

And they, these guys,

I hate to say it, but they don't, they just don't experience remorse like people.

And that's why I loved, I really love the comments of Olivia today, because that kind of stuff is biting.

That kind of stuff.

Matt, that was the other thing she got to.

She said, so Jack the Ripper was never caught, but Brian Kohlberger was caught and she got on him like, how are you so stupid?

Like mockingly, like, did you really think you're going to be able to cover up your Amazon purchase of the knife by using a gift card?

It was so diminishing.

look i love that i i love that i i loved her you're basic you're nothing you're she went she read everything that she could get her hands on written by brian koberger that is a very intelligent woman who wanted she wanted to sting on and she did i guarantee that stuff hurt today okay now speaking of stinging um

uh There, speaking of my friend Ashley Banfield, she had on a guy, his name is Larry Levine, and he's a a former federal inmate and prison consultant.

And he's literally written the book that people read when they get sentenced to prison on like how to deal with prison.

So she had him on not long ago and asked him some questions about what, what's going to happen now to Brian Kohlberger.

This is after understanding he was pleading guilty.

And listen here to SOT 16.

Remember that these people in there, none of them, well, I shouldn't say none of them, a great deal of them are not mentally stable anyway.

So that's highly possible.

Maybe somebody somebody will shive him or something.

That is part of jailhouse justice.

I've seen people get stuck before.

I've been in three different prison riots.

I've seen all this shit.

But I predict within a year or less that he's either going to be dead or he's going to be physically injured in some way.

Then they'll transport him, take him to a real hospital, and they'll let him stay there and get well and all this bullshit.

Finally, they'll move him back over to the prison, back to Boise,

and he'll be in protective custody for the rest of his life because they won't be able to put him in general population.

Now, Matt, you've been saying he's going to go to special custody right away.

Do we know that?

I guarantee they're going to put him in, it's called PC, or they're going to make him a total sep or a total separation.

That's, I guarantee he's, he's been in that status almost certainly the entire time since his arrest because of the notoriety of the case.

It'll only increase today.

But, you know, what a sad statement of the American system of justice when we're all here and we are hoping that,

not that we're hoping for it, but that people are calling for prisoners.

Like we need dirtbag teammates to achieve justice in a case like this.

It's just, it speaks to that unsatisfied feeling you were talking about earlier.

I think that a lot of people across America are cheering for dirtbag prisoners prisoners to carry out what the American justice system couldn't.

And back to Philip's point,

you know,

the idea that the DA kind of blinked on this, that he accepted Koberger's terms.

And I just don't see any other way of looking at it because it sounds like that is exactly what happened.

Go ahead, Philip.

Let me just disagree a little bit.

I think the prison system has a responsibility to protect him.

I think that that should be enforced, and it would be

an American tragedy if he were killed in prison.

I think that's not the way America works.

Howard,

no, and I don't disagree with you.

He's my dear liberal friend.

I'm not calling for it.

Well, I certainly wouldn't be crying any tears.

I would not cry one tear to hear.

I actually would like to see him suffer for a little while before they take care of him, but I don't know.

In this matter, I feel like those prisoners, those fellow prisoners to him are allies.

I'm willing to look the other way.

I just, he shouldn't continue breathing our air.

I don't really care about the explanation at this point, Phil.

I want him gone.

I feel like the state fell down on the job.

If prison justice has to do it,

nobody cried when Jeffrey Dahmer was killed in prison.

I mean, you know, things like that.

But

the state does have a legal obligation to at least do their best to protect those in their custody, such as prisoners.

They don't always do such a good job at it.

And, you know, these

letting men in women's prisons.

Yeah, well, you never know what's going to happen.

But the thing that about his being in custody for life is, look, over time,

whether it's a year, two years, three years from now, over time,

the guard will let will get let down.

He's going to become more in the rearview mirror and not so much of today's prisoner celebrity kind of thing.

And so over time, he's going to be exposed to many different opportunities for things to happen, either at the hands of other third parties or at the hands of himself.

And

you just never know.

He's not going to be well liked by other prisoners.

He's going to be in that category of inmates that really do need to be looking over their shoulder for their own safety.

And he better hope for his sake that he is in protective custody.

And he better hope that it's sufficient protective custody and that there's no gaps in it because he's going to be universally hated by the rank and file inmate people that are in there for, you know, let's just maybe theft offenses,

property crimes, not necessarily, you know,

limited to just violent prisoners.

He's going to be exposed potentially to all different manner of people that are just in there for short sentences.

And some of them are in there for life.

And some people in prison have nothing to lose either.

And so he's got a lot of things that he needs to be concerned about.

It's a long way from that selfie that we saw where it's just disgusting to me because it's right after apparently the murders.

It looks like he's standing in front of a shower.

Maybe he's just cleaned himself up and he's giving this thumbs up.

Like, hey, I'm very proud of myself.

I'm proud of that I just achieved my mission.

I think he was trying to duplicate,

you know, maybe a Jeff Ted Bundy or some other serial killer.

And he's very proud of himself in that picture right there.

But

he's got a

different road in front of him moving forward, Megan.

He's got a lot to be concerned about.

Here's Here's a little bit more from this Larry Levine, who's got some interesting takes on it.

All right,

here is Juan Sat 19.

I remember something you once told me

that almost everybody cries.

They do

because the whole realization has hit them.

People lay awake and they can't sleep and every little fucking noise and the pipes and the wall, everything freaks them out.

And then, you know, this is an old prison in

Idaho.

Maybe there's rats in the walls and maybe he'll get a little pet or something.

Then he's going to hear the other inmates.

They're going to be assholes banging on the wall.

They will.

They're going to bang on the wall.

They're going to fuck with him and they're going to tell him they're going to kill him.

It doesn't matter how tough you are.

And he's got no hope.

And that's what a lot of people, they live to see their families.

They know they're all getting out.

So a person serving a life sentence, their first night in there, it just completely fucks with their head.

You know, maybe he'll try to kill himself.

I'm starting to feel better.

I don't know.

Howard,

wasn't he already asking when he got arrested for like vegan?

vegan menu and like the proper cooking utensils that hadn't touched meat?

It was kind of crazy when he first got arrested, memory serves.

Yes, and he was also asking if he could have a coffee date with the officer who arrested him.

I mean, he was sort of cut off from reality.

He thought this was all somehow going to work out.

Yeah.

He's about to learn the hard way.

Will he be able to have people interview him in prison?

Well, actually, suppose Katherine Ramson wanted to visit him.

Would she be allowed?

I'm not sure that's even allowed in maximum custody.

Well, here's what Brian Enton of News Nation tweeted out.

He posted, Kohlberger will likely have his own tablet in prison, like a like an ipad with music email and movies in his prison cell also he can buy his own tv to keep in his cell this is why people favor the death penalty because we don't want to see them phil sitting there watching probably

one night in idaho reliving it for good time's sake in his case as opposed to standing in front of the firing squad yeah he's going to be re-watching all his court appearances and reliving his glory days.

But look, here's a question that I've got maybe for the rest of you, Megan and the rest of the panel and for those watching.

Is there a possibility now that President Trump has weighed in on this case that maybe the federal government brings some charges?

Because, you know, it's possible.

There's concurrent jurisdiction.

There's no such thing as double jeopardy vis-a-vis the federal and the state system.

And if the Justice Department were to try to pick up this case, the federal death penalty could potentially be on the table, and he could have a whole new set of problems to be dealing with.

So look, this today, this sentencing hearing is over.

This Idaho case is over, but this saga is not over.

And I just wonder if there's not going to be some

just say thought given at the federal level to bring in some kind of federal charges because in the federal system, the death penalty is real, it applies, and the Justice Department knows how to use it.

Here was the president's tweet just, I think, two days ago.

Brian Kohlberger, who was responsible in Idaho for the deaths of four wonderful young souls, has made a plea bargain deal in order to avoid the death penalty.

These were vicious murders with so many questions left unanswered.

While life imprisonment is tough, it's certainly better than receiving the death penalty.

But before sentencing, I hope the judge makes Kohlberger at a minimum explain why he did these horrible murders.

There are no explanations.

There is no nothing.

People were were shocked that he was able to plea bargain, but the judge should make him explain what happened.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

The judge pointing out today he didn't have that ability, but Matt, you pointed out last time we were together, the DA did.

I'll give you the floor in one second.

I want to say this.

My information is that thanks to Doge, the DOJ right now is severely undermanned.

You can, Doge is not like USAID, where you cancel the grant and you cancel the person overseeing it and you're fine.

When you fire something like 240 lawyers from DOJ, the cases they were on do not go away.

They now get dumped on other lawyers who are at DOJ.

So my info over there is that a lot of lawyers are really stretched thin.

They need to hire good lawyers over there.

Hello, my friends on screen left.

Phil, I know you're busy with a new MK Media show, but you should do it.

You too, Matt.

You recently left the prosecutor's office anyway.

I don't think they have the manpower to go after a case that's already wrapped up, but your thoughts on it, Matt?

Well, they could.

They certainly could.

We're talking about the resources of the federal government.

The problem is, would they?

And then what effect would that ultimately have?

And Phillip's right.

I don't know if it's called dual jurisdiction.

I don't know if there is a if there necessarily is a federal

way into this.

It wasn't on a military base.

I don't know if there'd be any federal jurisdiction because it was a college campus.

I don't know if they would necessarily have jurisdiction.

But the problem there, Megan,

is we just saw the midnight pardons and commutations by Joe Biden were, I think

they

commuted 37 of 42 federal death penalty cases, I think was the number.

The vast majority on his way out the door of federal death penalty sentences were commuted to life in prison.

So even if we did get one federally, you know, I mean, Megan, you cover this, you cover national politics.

You know, that's a 40 years is a long time for there to be a president, as we almost saw last time, that's hostile to the death penalty, hostile to lifestyle parole, who would likely commute that long before it was carried out.

If I'd like to correct your statement, the auto pen was hostile to the death penalty.

The auto pen

decided to get rid of it in many, many cases.

Whoever was turning it on.

Right.

I want to play the following.

He went on Amazon.

He went on Amazon to make purchases.

And so I think there could be a federal hook here.

And he left the state of Idaho in furtherance of

desires to cover up.

I think you're looking at it in a too legalistic way.

I think if the president believes a great number of the American people still want answers, I think he will somehow move things so that

things will move forward in the courts.

I think that

Philip just hit the nail on the head.

Sorry, I didn't mean to step on you, Howard.

Phillip's absolutely right.

He crossed state lines.

That's the hook.

They could do it if they want.

That does give the feds jurisdiction if they wanted to pursue death.

I don't know how the families would feel about going through that entire process, but they would be walking with the backstop.

It's a very interesting idea.

Wow.

Okay.

So then we've possibly plowed new ground here.

I wanted to play this just because

we listened to this whole thing together and we heard from Maddie's family, we heard from Kaylee's family, we heard from Zana's family, but we heard nothing from Ethan Chapin's family.

And there was a reason for that.

His parents did cooperate with the One Night in Idaho documentary.

His mother, who I mentioned earlier, Stacey, an incredible woman.

I mean, I've never met her, but boy, I was very impressed by her.

And here's what she said in episode three of that four-episode series, SAT-11.

Sitting in a courtroom.

This doesn't feel right.

Why would I go sit in a courtroom with that person?

Have you attended any of the hearings?

No.

No, I will not.

We won't attend any of the hearings.

What's the purpose?

Definitely not the trial.

No.

Nope.

I don't have a need to go look him in the eyes or

I don't.

It is what it is.

We cannot change the outcome on this thing.

We cannot bring anything back.

She's certainly right about that.

She's got a very strong head on her shoulders.

Maddie's mom, Karen,

is a real tearjerker in this series because she looks just like her daughter, first of all.

And second of all,

she talks about how she raised Maddie and how,

you know, when Maddie cried in the crib, she went and got her.

Like she, she was always like sort of the, and I mean this sweetly, like the sucker of a mom.

Like, I can't take it.

I can't take her upset.

You know, life's too short.

I need to help her with her distress.

And by all accounts, Maddie turned out amazingly and turned into just an absolutely wonderful young woman.

And so you can see this mother's just acute pain talking about getting the news and dealing with the news.

And here's just a bit of her talking about that yellow sweatshirt that's in that photo of the six of them, the very photo that the sentencing proceeding today ended on.

And

the photo we've come to know so well that really encapsulates their friendship and the love and the vibrance.

And here's Maddie's mom, Karen, talking about it.

It's out 12.

We didn't honestly get a lot back.

Just to be...

Meaning you didn't want it back or you just wasn't able to come back.

So the stuff that was able to come back, I went through and like, oh, some of this is silly.

Some of this is very sentimental.

Like I still have the yellow sweater that she was wearing that day.

The sleeves are still rolled up.

So I found this sweatshirt when we went down.

It was the first family weekend.

And Maddie really wanted this sweatshirt.

And

it wasn't in her size, we couldn't find it.

And I found it in like a total different place.

And when I found it, I was like, Scott, look, we found the sweater.

And then

I'm on video with her, and she's cutting it.

I'm like, we were on FaceTime.

I'm like, what are you doing?

She's like, this is how everything is worn, mom.

I'm like, okay, I got to get used to this.

I got to let it be.

But yes,

super glad we got that back.

Oh my God, guys, you look at it.

There's this sweatshirt with no girl in it, and no girl will ever be in it named Kayleigh Gonsalves because of what that monster did.

Those moments really bring it back to what this case is all about.

Those four wonderful lives lost for no reason.

I don't know.

My own take away

on this story and this crime is

so basic, but it's hug your kids, hug your loved ones.

Remember that no tomorrow is promised.

Don't assume you have the time.

You might not.

You have to tell everybody you love, that you love them.

You have to tell the friends that you have, that you value them.

You have to go outside and look at the sky or look at the ocean and think, I'm here on borrowed time.

I'm a renter, not an owner.

I have to treat the things around me and the people around me respectfully like a renter should.

And And

make sure that you're connected, you know, that you're not spending too much time working and not enough time loving and having experiences with those who mean something to you.

It's the only comfort we have when something horrific happens.

And the only comfort those parents have who were close to their kids by all accounts.

I mean, especially in the case of the Chapins and Maddie and Kaylee, I don't know the...

I don't know Xana's family as well, but my God, what a day.

You guys are, I value you truly and sincerely.

All three of you have helped us get through this case.

And especially you, Howard.

Thank you for everything.

And we'll continue it on with many other cases to come.

Thanks, guys, for being here today.

Always a pleasure.

All the best, guys.

Wow.

And thanks to all of you for listening.

This is an emotional one.

I wonder how you're feeling.

I'd love to know how you're feeling, actually.

Helps me sometimes to read.

the emails.

I don't know, I'm kind of like emotional.

It's

It's my son's 12th birthday, you know, and you just, they're growing up too fast and they're moving on, they're moving on, you know, to new stages of life where they're a little less dependent on you.

And that's a beautiful thing and it's a necessary thing.

But man, you,

they're such perspective setters.

They're what matters.

That is, in the end, all that matters, you know, and I love my job, as you guys know, I love doing the news.

But my God, you know, your family, that's, they're everything.

That's everything.

So hug your loved ones, hug them dearly and tightly today.

Happy birthday, Thatcher.

And

we'll all get together tomorrow on a less heavy news day, though.

Things are really breaking today on the

Tulsi Gabbard documents.

We'll have that covered for you with the fellas from Ruthless, and we'll have some laughs.

See you then.

Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly Show.

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