Dems in Decline, Newsom's Bizarre Trump Troll Attempt, and Truth About DC Crime, with Halperin, Spicer, and Turrentine

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Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly.

Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show and happy Wednesday.

We've got a great show for you today beginning with the state of American politics with three guys who know it better than most.

because there's something happening in America with the Democratic Party.

And for one of our guests who really cares about this, it's pretty alarming.

Meantime, the most prominent Democrats, like Governor Gavin Newsom, are behaving in some pretty bizarre ways while they try to fight Donald Trump, drawing the ire of some of their most famous media allies.

Joining me now to discuss it all, Mark Halperin, host of Next Up on the MK Media Podcast Network, Sean Spicer and Dan Turrentine.

Together, they are the hosts of the morning meeting on Tu-Way.

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Guys, welcome back.

Great to see you.

Thanks for having us.

Thank you.

Okay, so there's a lot to go over, but I really kind of want to start with this New York Times piece, Out of Power.

This hit today by Shane Goldmacher with Jonah Smith and is going on about the voter registration crisis that the Democrats are facing.

The subhead is: The party is bleeding support beyond the ballot box, according to a new analysis.

And the highlights of this thing show as follows.

While there are still more Democrats registered nationwide than Republicans, though they point out that's simply because in states like California, you can register by party, whereas in a lot of red states, you can't.

So that's even questionable.

They say, nonetheless, for the first time since 2018, more new voters nationwide chose to be Republicans than Democrats last year.

Of the 30 states that track voter registration by political party, Democrats lost ground to Republicans in every single one between 2020 and 2024, and often by a lot.

That four-year swing toward the Republicans adds up to 4.5 million voters, a deep political hole that could take years for Democrats to climb out from.

It goes on to say all four presidential presidential battleground states covered by the Times analysis: Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, and Pennsylvania, all of them showed significant Democratic erosion.

In North Carolina, Republicans erased roughly 95%

of the registration advantage that Democrats held in the fall of 2020.

They, quote, Michael Pruser, who tracks voter registration closely as the director of data science for Decision Desk HQ, an election analysis site, quote, I don't want to say the death cycle of the Democratic Party, but there seems to be no end to this.

There is no silver lining.

There is no cavalry coming across the hill.

This is month after month, year after year.

That's a red alarm for the Democrat Party, five-alarm fire, however you want to put it.

And

to me, it's very interesting because I don't think you can,

I support Donald Trump, but I don't think you can say he did this because the erosion was steady from 2020 to 2024, Mark Halperin, which tells me it's the Democrats that are causing the mass exodus.

Your thoughts?

Well, a little bit of both.

I applaud the New York Times for finally writing this piece.

I'm next month going to publish a story about the decline of network television news on the rise of YouTube.

This has been going on for a long time.

This is not some breaking news.

We were talking about it on Tuesday last fall because the numbers were there.

I think that it's partly the Democrats woke weakness.

It's partly Trump.

But part of why this happened and why it's continued to happen is the Democrats and their allies in the media live in a blue bubble.

This alarm should have been pulled, as my joke suggested, years ago.

because it's been happening right before everybody's eyes.

But because the press doesn't like to write negative stories about the Democrats, it's only now that they're saying, well, we better confront this because nothing really is being done to address it.

As the story says, they don't really have a plan to fix it.

Part of this is mechanics.

Allies of President Trump were extremely professional and skillful using technology and blood, sweat, and tears to re-register people, get people registered.

But part of it is not the mechanics.

It's the reality that the Republican brand, partly Trump, has risen with groups that previously were Democratic leaning groups like younger people, young black men, men, young Hispanic men.

But part of it is the Democratic brand, coupled with their lack of the mechanics, has really accelerated a trend that is, as the story says, it's not over.

And the Democrats currently don't have a circuit breaker.

The steepest declines, Sean Spicer, have been in registrations among men and younger voters.

This doesn't surprise me at all, especially the men.

And the Democrats know it too now that they're spending $20 million to try to learn how to speak to men.

Like, they should talk to me.

I'm speaking to three men right now.

It's easy.

It's very easy if you're just normal.

But it's no surprise to me.

And

this cannot be easily fixed.

Like, oh, we'll get a male nominee or, oh, we'll start swearing more.

What you need to do, I mean, among other things, is root out DEI at every level in this country because DEI at its heart demonizes men.

And it leads to men being the the fall guy at colleges and schools, K through 12, and men being the last now to get hired for jobs and the least likely to receive any sort of hand up, really

in any category in America, which is why older men, middle-aged men, young men, teenage men are flocking to the Republican Party.

I'm just going to show you one thing before I give you the floor.

This was on my

feed last night.

It jumped out at me.

It was from, hold on a second, I wrote it down.

The university this came from of these young guys.

Stand by.

Sigma New Fraternity, University of Missouri.

This was from last November, but here is how they began recruiting.

They're doing it again now because it's recruiting season for fraternities, but this is how they began recruiting one year ago, right now.

There was never any doubt, Carmela.

you're fired.

All the guys are dressed like Trump, wearing the red MAGA hat.

And

doing the YMCA.

Sean, that's relief.

That's hope.

That's we need Trump because we, young men, need Trump.

I think all that's reflected in these numbers.

Yeah.

I mean, look, if you had told me when I started at the RNC in February of 2011 that we would be in the position now, I wouldn't believe it.

I mean, from a data standpoint, a voter reg standpoint, to Mark's point, there's two big M's, message and mechanics.

They don't have either, and they're suffering massively.

Voter registration is an inherently labor-intensive and expensive.

So it's something you got to go out there, get people to either volunteer their time or knock on doors, target people.

And all of the data that's extrapolated is critical in these in elections.

So you know who to go to, what their voting history is, everything.

So this is, this is the secret sauce of winning elections is having people registered and then having voter history on them.

And I'll give you just a handful of examples that you mentioned this.

In Pennsylvania, Democrats in November of 2024, just a few months ago when the election was held, held a 3.1 voter registration, 286,283 more than Republicans.

That is down.

a point and plus.

They are now down to an advantage of 174,723, right?

You look at North Carolina, another battleground state.

Democrats Democrats had an advantage of 105,675 voters.

They are down to 17,377, a critical battleground state Senate race coming up and a governor's race.

These are going to be impactful in these next, not just the midterms, but

in the subsequent presidential elections.

And Democrats, as I said, have not just a message problem, to your point, about these guys at fraternities and older union workers who don't realize why maybe the union boss still supports the Democratic Party, but for cultural reasons, they've lost working men and women.

But they also are going to have a mechanical problem that Mark alluded to, and it costs money.

The financial advantage of Donald Trump and the RNC right now is just north of $300 million cash on hand, and the DNC has $13 million.

It's not even a fair fight.

And that's the bigger problem.

They can't even, even if they've come, to your point, if they came up with a message and started drinking beer

and talking about, like, they wouldn't women like Cindy Sweeney in their jeans.

Keep going, Sean.

No, they lacked then the resources to implement it.

So not only do they have a message, they don't have the resources to take care of the mechanical problem that exists to go out and register these voters.

They are, this could be the big divide that occurs.

The DNC, by the way, and you alluded to this, but this is critical to understand.

Under Obama, organizing for America, they kind of shunned the DNCSI, built their own political organization, surrounded it around Barack Obama.

And then when he was gone, you had a shelled-out DNC.

Biden really didn't do much to put it back on life support.

And right now, Ken Martin, yes, they actually have a chair, but he is completely feckless and useless.

So you now have a Democratic Party that doesn't have any functioning capabilities.

The DNC is dead.

And this is an unbelievable problem from where I started at the RNC, $25 million in debt, to now an RNC that is dwarfing their rival, the DNC.

Dan, Maria Cardona, I mean, she's been around forever.

I'm sorry, but Maria Cardona, what has she done?

Hashtag part of the problem.

She's quoted in here as saying, We fell asleep at the Switch.

Not it, Maria.

No, not it.

The problems were glaring.

They were all around you.

Your party went insane and you encouraged it.

You did nothing.

It wasn't like you missed it.

You loved it.

You thought it was actually a winner to go woke and shove these messages down the throats of young people people who are sick of being told how to think and talk and young men too.

And now you're bearing the fruit of your bad labor.

They point out in the Times article,

for years the left has relied on a sprawling network of nonprofits which solicit donations from people whose identities they need not disclose to register black, Latino, and younger voters.

The underlying assumption has been most of those new voters would vote Democratic, and then they got burned.

Cardona says, in today's day and age, I guess you just can't register a young Latino or a young black voter and assume they're going to know that it's Democrats that have the best policies because they're flocking just like the rest of young people to Trump, to Team Red.

Your thoughts, Dan?

Megan, you're absolutely right.

I mean, Democrats thought that the Obama coalition, they used to call it the Coalition of the Ascendant.

And it turns out it's the descendant.

I mean, we, as Mark mentioned, this has been going on now for years.

We talked about this in 2022, 2023, and going into 2024.

You saw these voter registration gaps narrowing and in some cases, Republicans surpassing.

Think about last October

as Kamala Harris was slightly behind Trump.

What was one of the things Democrats said?

We have the ground game.

We do this better than anybody else.

It's what the party has kind of hung its hat on now going back to 2008.

It turns out the Republicans have leapt so far ahead of us that we now have a serious problem.

And as you were just alluding, the number of people who would say last year, we knocked on doors in Philadelphia, Atlanta, and said, are you going to vote?

The people would say, yes.

The problem is it wasn't for Kamala Harris.

It was for Donald Trump.

And so, you know, as Sean said, it's a message and mechanics.

We always talk about this, and I think you do too.

What issue do Democrats have that's an 80-20 issue for us?

Right?

Culturally, we remain totally disconnected.

The party does not want to talk about this stuff.

After the election, everyone was like, we need to make a bunch of changes.

But there is still a fear within our leadership that if we start talking about this, they will be canceled.

Even when you had Rah Emmanuel on, he almost apologized.

He was like, I have to go to the witness protection program, which tells you how nervous they all remain.

So I think the party has a lot of problems.

And I'm glad it's now being talked about in places like the New York Times, where, as Mark said, in the blue bubble, this might be news.

Here's what they say, Mark.

They're talking about the flips in county registrations.

Bucks County, Pennsylvania, which is one of the prettiest places on earth, man.

You want to go someplace nice.

Go to Bucks County, Pennsylvania in the fall, around Halloween, have a glass of wine at the outdoor bar on the main drag there.

Go for a little walk on the Erie Canal, remnants in the back.

It's beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

And historically, split Dem Republican, like much of Pennsylvania.

This tilted Republican in registration for the first time since 2007.

In the fall, Trump became the first Republican presidential candidate to carry the county this century.

They talk about what happened in Miami-Dade down in Florida, where the number of active Republican voters zoomed past Democrats months after Trump became the nominee.

Democrats, as recently as November of 2020, outnumbered the GOP there by 200,000.

The margin's totally gone.

It's flipped the other way.

Statewide in Florida, 1.2 million voter swing flipped from Dem to Republican.

According to the Times analysis, North Carolina, they say, could be the next to tip.

State records show the Democratic edge there down to less than 17,000 voters from 400,000 four years ago.

Saying it again, the Dems had a 400,000 voter advantage in North Carolina in 2020.

It's down to 17,000.

And they point out Pennsylvania may be on deck.

That's shocking.

I mean, all these states we were very worried out of, they don't mention Virginia, but like North Carolina, those of us who

want Republicans to win, we're very worried about states like this going not just purple and swingy, but full blue, kind of like Virginia did.

This is pumping the brakes on some of that, Mark.

Yeah, look, again, hats off to the New York Times.

I finally wrote the story.

But think about if the shoe were on the other foot.

Think about if the four years when Donald Trump was trying to retake the White House, imagine the registration numbers moved the other direction.

Okay.

Well, how would the New York Times have written that story?

They'd say, and again, this is not a red state or blue state or purple state phenomena.

It's coast to coast.

The New York Times would say, this is a repudiation of Donald Trump, that Americans are voting with their voter registration forms away from Donald Trump's Republican Party.

What the story doesn't say, and again, as you said in the beginning, it's not all attributable to Donald Trump, but on his watch, when he was the unambiguous face of the Republican Party, the trend has been uniformly in the other direction.

And mechanics matter, but part of what Donald Trump has done is built a much more formidable machine than the blue side has in both the government, in the official party apparatus and the allied groups.

So the Democrats, Some of them, I've already talked to some about this story.

They're saying, well, this is a Trump phenomenon.

J.D.

Vance or Marco Rubio are not going to be able to drive the same thing.

I'm not so sure because, again,

it's a complication.

It doesn't make sense.

It's a complicated sense.

Just look at, neither of us is good at math, I assume, because we're all in journalism.

We came over here because

we didn't have to do math.

But

all these numbers where the Democrats were reaching these peaks,

it was 2020.

So

that wasn't about, you know, if that was about Trump, it was negative about Trump.

The next four years is when they lost everybody, which to me says it was about Biden, Harris, woke topia, George Floyd, COVID excesses, all of that.

It's a lot about that.

But look, what defines Donald Trump's time over the last decade, right, 2015 to 2025, is putting in sharper relief than any Republican or conservative or commentator has done all of the vulnerabilities the Democrats have on those issues, on woke issues, on

immigration, on trans issues that some many people in the country think have gone too far.

I just take you on a mess.

I agree with you.

Trump is our best.

He's our greatest warrior on Woke.

I agree.

However, I was there.

I remember this podcast launched in September of 2020, and we were talking about the COVID excesses, and we were talking about the George Floyd excesses in DEI non-stop.

Trump was a non-factor other than J6th, which was hanging around Republicans' neck like an albatross.

No one wanted to mention the name Donald Trump.

It was associated with this very, very negative thing that the country hated.

For two years, the storyline was not about Trump.

It was about the Democrats who were literally ruining the country to the point where everyone felt like a boot was on the neck and we were changing fundamentally, which helped lead to Trump's resurgence in that very boring launch he did at Mar-a-Lago, where I said I fell asleep and it was true.

And then Trump got his mojo back bit by bit and remembered who he was.

And we remembered what we loved about him and started making the case and Susie Wiles with the discipline and all that.

But I'm telling you,

I know, I know in my gut, these numbers are not about Trump.

They are about Democrats.

Well, you're right.

For a period, it was not about Trump as much as it was 2015 to 2020.

But again, to me,

you can't disentangle them because even as he was repudiated and even after January 6th, Trump still put the Democratic Party in that box during his first term.

So you're right.

There's a period where Trump's not the visible face, but the phenomena of the Trump revolution against all this stuff,

it's 10 years.

There's some lower points, and we've seen it accelerate in a lot of these states when Trump came back on the stage.

But you're right about that period.

I disagree with you.

I think Trump, here's where Trump came in.

Trump's brand was very bad in 2020.

It was very bad.

And people were not openly wanting to associate with the Republican Party at that point.

But here's what happened.

The Democrats so embarrassed themselves, Dan, that people started to think, what's the alternative?

Where do I go?

And that's when Trump came back and then hit it at just the right time.

Started saying all the right things in his rally speeches, started like being the big middle finger that he was first time around, though generally on different issues.

He wasn't, we weren't doing like the open woke thing as much from 15 to 20 as we were from 20 thereafter.

And then they indicted Trump four times.

Then they shot Trump once and tried to assassinate him a second time.

All those things made it about Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

And he became super cool and larger than life and made the Republican brand cool for once.

Some people say again.

I say

for once.

I don't know if it was ever cool before that.

And that's, so that's where we are today.

But I just think the Democrats, if they think, okay, Trump's going to leave and we'll be okay again, are completely wrong.

They are in for quite an awakening because it's about much more than him.

Look, I totally agree with you, Megan.

And I actually think it could accelerate because

Trump still has 48.5% of the country that really dislikes him.

They just like his personality, his style.

JD Vance, let's assume that the likelihood that he's the nominee, he

can talk MAGA with the best of them, but also can present a much more accessible and welcoming personality and family dynamic to voters.

So he could end up polling even more people.

Look, we are culturally disconnected.

I think the other part that accelerated the transition is the economy.

Remember, we were dismissive of inflation.

Then Joe Biden spent

two years telling everyone, you should be grateful because we're better than the rest of the world.

And so I think we drove people away culturally.

We've driven people away economically.

You know, young black men, Latinos, what did they say in focus groups?

We missed Trump's economy.

It was better for me under him than Joe Biden.

And so I'm going with Trump.

So I think you're right.

The Democratic Party did its darn best to drive people away.

And still today, I would ask anybody, what are we doing to win them back?

Any turn of momentum we have is usually because Trump makes a mistake.

or it's a stylistic thing.

And I think we'll talk about Gavin Newsome later.

But there's no meat on the bone for a voter to say I want to go back with them because fundamentally though here's the problem the Democratic Party is a patchwork of random coalitions there's no through line it's like if you subscribe to the LGBTQ ABCD EFG then you're part of our party not because but we're just going to say yeah you you're in our party you have uh two left hands you're in our party there's nothing that the party stands for and when I was talking about young voters a moment ago you think about union union voters are exactly to me the epitome of voters that the Democratic Party lost.

They used to stand for them and then they started insulting them saying, well, if you go to church, if you have a gun, if you watch these programs, you're not really a good Democrat anymore.

And so you've alienated people and you don't know.

The problem for the Democrats is that they can't figure out how to get back because the woke policies where they're going to the lowest common denominator, standing up for every kid that has one problem and telling the entire classroom that you need to acknowledge that and conform is losing people.

There's no bringing them back.

And so until there's a fundamental reckoning in the Democratic Party about what they stand for, they're not going to be able to message them.

As Dan pointed out, think about the people that are getting like play on the Democratic side.

It's for cheap stunts, memes, some social media stuff, like fleeing to sanctuary political cities, as the case of

Democrats in Texas, who then came right back, for doing something that every every other Democrat has supported in gerrymandering.

The point is, they're not for anything.

There is no message.

And the fundamental point that I made before, there's two problems, message and mechanics, and they've got neither.

You got it.

And here's what the Democrats are doing.

So we've had going on a year now since Trump's election.

And they saw the same data that we've been discussing and that we all learned in that election.

And this is where we are.

I'm going to show you how they're handling, for example, in Boston, Trump's crackdown on immigration.

Okay, this is how they're handling it.

It's SAT 29.

My name is Laroni Carlos.

Everybody, rolling your ass.

Everybody,

it's a mariachi band.

This is effective.

There's, of course, a sign language person.

There's a sign that reads, dissent is patriotic.

Oh, my God.

Okay, you get it.

Sean Spicer, Is this going to win back the men and the young people?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

If I were the Democrats, I would double down on this.

Just keep doing more of this.

This is the secret sauce, folks.

You found it.

I love it.

Roll the R's and sing the song.

I mean, honestly, they are doing more of it.

Here's, I will, I take you back to Florida, Senate Democrats down there.

And what they did is they were walking through protesters and sat 30.

Gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay.

And then here's another one.

My team was ready for this.

The Rapid Response Choir in Sot 31.

You'll have joy.

People out there are going to try to tear you down, but the world outside can't take us down.

And that's what this song is about.

This joy that I have,

the world can't give it to me.

The world can't give it, the world can't take it away.

You know, Megan, the morning meeting's been testing out some opening songs.

We might have to hire these guys.

You need your own rapid response, choir.

That one was about Doge, hands off Noah.

They were, I mean, Mark, you've been covering politics for a long time.

Is this the way back into the hearts and minds?

Young people, men, Latinos?

I mean, there was a mariachi band.

Is that openly racist or is that the way back in with Latinos?

Well, look, no party can ignore the energized base.

They can't ignore these people's passion.

But for the trill dars.

For the trill d'Ars and for these issues, even if they're not popular, but they have to fuse that.

They have to merge that with a more moderate, centrist, mainstream sensibility, which is the only way they're going to win elections.

And

this is a job for a very talented politician.

You know, you can talk about demographic trends.

You can talk about issues.

You can talk about mechanics.

But you need charismatic leaders who get it.

You need charismatic leaders who can say, as Donald Trump does, the base of my party is vital to me, but I'm talking about issues that have 70, 30, 80, 20 appeal to my side.

But that takes talent.

Because if you're talking about something that is appealing to 80% of the country, some of your base is going to wonder, well, why are we talking to those people?

They're not true believers.

That takes talent of a Clinton or a George W.

Bush or a Barack Obama or a Donald Trump.

And part of their problem is they just lack that person who can bridge that divide.

And when you don't bridge the divide, what you see, as Dan often points out, is people like Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries who'd like to bridge the divide, but faced with their limited ability to do it, just go with the base, just empower the base because those are the loudest, those are the angriest, the most active people in the party.

And you cannot grow the party if you're just giving in to them.

You have to cater to them, make them feel good, make them part of the coalition, but you cannot let them call all the shots.

And but herein lies the conflict between, you know, getting back men, Hispanics, young voters, which I firmly believe requires that DEI be absolutely extinguished into

fairy dust.

It must be completely excised from the party.

And

this group, you know, that calls themselves the Resistance Choir and goes out there, you know, with their pink pea hats

singing the songs about woke issues and so on.

I mean, like,

that's, those are two factions or former factions, at least, of the Democratic base, the Wokesters and then the Hispanics, black voters, and young people.

And, you know, they've lost Hispanics.

They've lost young people.

They're losing blacks by the day, all of whom I think have recoiled in response to the non-stop woke lessons.

So I don't know.

They're in a bit of a pickle.

But let's talk about generational politicians.

Does that include Gavin Newsom?

I'll ask you that question first, Mark.

Is he a generational politician?

Is he the kind of guy you're talking about who can like come along and genuinely inspire, you know, like an Obama type who can completely rally these people back into the Dem party?

Well, he's the closest thing there is right now.

And it's interesting.

He's gone from being dismissed by almost everyone we know to now, I believe, I talked to Patty Salise Doyle, who Democratic operative on Next Up, she and I agree.

He's in tier one by himself now.

Now, he is not as bad as his critics say, but he's not as good as a generational politician who could clearly solve this.

And I continue to believe his ambivalence about running will play a role here in his decision in the end.

But he's as good as they have right now.

And he's laying down a lot of tracks.

about the right way to do this.

Will he be the person who does it successfully and be the nominee in the end?

I don't know.

But, you know, like I've seen kids, not particularly good soccer players in second grade, but everyone else in the team is really bad.

And so they look fantastic in a very weak field right now.

He's a pro.

He's the governor of one of every seven Americans.

He's been on the national stage a long time.

He knows a lot of people throughout the country.

He's doing stuff now that others can't do.

And that makes him right now, again, in a class by himself.

I don't think he'll be the nominee in the end necessarily, but i do think it every other person who'd like to be a leader of the party in the context of running for president in 28 have to ask themselves if they can do anything like what gavin newsom is doing now in standing up to donald trump and i don't believe most of them would have a clue about how to do it okay so gavin newsom has decided to hire two young whippersnapper press people who look a lot like the corrine jean-pierre press pool like the people she was using in her press office who look like these you know weird hats and strange haircuts and like the Rainbow Coalition.

So he's hired two of those folks to write his tweets.

And here's an example of where it's going.

It's all, it's turned in, his entire tweet feed has turned into imitations of what might be a Trump tweet.

For example, wow, in all caps, wow, what an honor on Mount Rushmore.

Thank you-GCN with an image of Newsom on Mount Rushmore.

Then there's a poster image of Kid Rock pointing like Uncle Uncle Sam.

It reads, Kid Rock wants you to support Gavin Newsom, captioned on X, I accept dash G C N.

Kid Rock, by the way, replied saying the only support Gavin Newscomb will ever get out of me is from D's nuts.

Here's another one.

He

Scott Pressler, who registered, speaking of Republican registrations, who basically turned Pennsylvania red with his voter registration efforts or got very, very close.

He posted a video about it and Gavin Newsom's office responded saying, thank you, Nancy Mace,

calling Scott Pressler Nancy Mace.

Scott Pressler has very, very long hair.

Nancy Mace doesn't, so I don't know.

It doesn't really work for me.

And then

somebody on Fox responded saying, you're kidding me, right?

You're constantly raving about protecting gay people.

And now you use your official press office to troll a gay conservative and call him a woman.

In response to which the press office replied, you sound woke.

All right, here's another one.

Not even, this is all caps, not even J.D.

Just Dance Vance can save Trump from the disastrous maps war he has started.

Not even his eyeliner lines look as pretty as California map lines.

He will fail as he always does.

Sad.

And I, the peacetime governor, our nation's favorite, will save America once again.

Many are now calling me Gavin Christopher Columbus Newsome because of the maps exclamation point.

Thank you for your attention to this matter, G C N.

This has led to a split amongst some on whether this is an effective strategy.

Joe Scarborough, not a fan.

I'm going to give you a little sampling of that.

27B.

The Democrats are trying to

find their footing, and it's quite embarrassing, actually.

I mean, Gavin knew some.

I mean, have you seen what he's doing online?

And it's like,

just take a deep breath.

Don't try to turn the ship 180 degrees.

They don't know what to do.

I have a good idea.

Instead of trying to

make school Donald Trump,

talk into the camera about affordability.

Donald Trump's not on the ballot in 26.

He's not on the ballot in 28.

So why are are you going, I'm going after Donald?

No, you're not, you're not running against Donald Trump.

Dan, thoughts?

I don't often disagree with Joe Scarborough, but on this I do, because one, I think you will be running against Donald Trump until January 20th, 2029.

Like whether you like it or not, Trump is the son that everything orients around.

I actually think this is really smart.

I think what Newsom is doing is filling a leadership void in the party that desperately wants somebody to take on Trump.

And look, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

If you just look at Gravin Newsom's following on X, Instagram, and TikTok, he is rapidly accumulating followers and retweets.

He is filling people's feed.

I see people who are like, I'll call it super depressed progressives, like in my own family.

who think Gavin Newsom's the greatest thing ever right now.

And so, look, what he lacks is substance.

At some point, he'll have to put an agenda together.

But for right now, he is like he is energizing Democrats.

And Mark said this before.

When Chuck Schumer wants to say something, he either says it in the well of the United States Senate over 20 minutes in dry, serious tones, or he puts out a press release on X, literally a photograph of a press release.

And Democrats yawn and pull their hair out.

What Gavin Newsom is doing is lighting a fire.

I think it's great.

In the long run, it's not enough to obviously win a presidential, but I agree with Mark.

He's in the top tier.

Now we disagree a little.

I think AOC is in there with him, but it's working for Gavin Newsom in a primary.

You're not the only one who feels that.

Here's CNN's Harry Enton, the data guru over there in SOT 27.

I think it absolutely has been working in terms of generating attention, which is what he's trying to do, right?

I mean, take a look here.

Let's take a look right at the at GovPress office followers on X.

That's, of course, where you get those sort of the account where Newsom posts those Trump-style mocking types of tweets.

Look at where we were on June 1st.

We basically had a clown car, a clown car for first.

Newsome, AOC, Buddha Judge, 11%, 10%, 8%.

But look at where we are now.

Look at this.

Look who's jumped up all the way up to 24% chance, about a one in four chance of getting the nomination.

Gavin Newsom.

AOC staying pretty steady at 13%.

And then, of course, we have Pete Budajudge, who has stayed absolutely steady at 8%.

So at least at this particular point, the prediction markets are saying, yes, yes, this strategy is paying off.

Of course, the key question is, will this actually work when you're trying to actually, votes are being cast and counted?

Sean, thoughts?

Look, I agree with both of them.

It's a pretty pathetic field when Gavin Newsom is considered the only tier one candidate.

That says a lot about the other folks that you're running against.

I mean, so you combine everything, the message, the mechanics, the candidates, the current leadership.

They are in a world of hurt right now.

I get Newsome's strategy.

I mean, look, he gets credit.

It's sort of like when you get, I used to call them circle 60s when I was in high school.

It meant you got an F, but we're going to give you a circle 60, which allowed you to pass the course.

And I think he's getting a circle 60.

We're learning a lot about Sean today.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You might want to look at those transcripts.

But he's getting a circle 60.

And what do I mean by that?

I give him, this is the, the teacher would say to me, okay, you came to class, you tried, you just failed the test.

So I'm going to give you credit for showing up and participating.

And I give credit to him for participating.

He's out there.

He's trying to do it.

But the fundamental thing that's so interesting in his strategy is this.

Most Democrats find Trump's tactics abhorrent.

So if you find the tactics abhorrent and then your goal is to emulate them, it's sort of like,

I just, I think he may get plaudits from a lot of the DC insider Beltway pundit class and reporters, but I have a hard time believing that people who are going to go to a caucus in Iowa or Nevada are going to find this enjoyable.

But I mean, I think he's mocking it.

Like he's not actually embracing it like this.

No, no, I get it.

Right.

I get it.

But I just think that if you don't like the behavior in the first place, somebody who's then doing it, I get why he's doing it to troll him.

But I think that it's hard to say, oh, what Trump's doing is so wrong.

I'm just going to do it.

Exactly.

Except there's one other difference besides the fact that it's meant to be performance art rather than whatever it is the president Trump does.

He's only targeting the president.

He's not making fun of other people.

So far, well, he made fun of Scott Kressler

and J.D.

Bass.

Sorry, to be clear, he's making fun of Republican politicians.

He's not going after other entities.

Now, maybe he will, but the meeting.

He's a combatant.

He's on the field.

He's a combatant.

So I'm just saying,

the Democrats like the fact that it's mockery of people who are.

No, no, I don't.

I think you're splitting hairs there, halper and that's who trump goes after trump's not he's not picking random private citizens to attack he attacked people who attack him he went after taylor swift because taylor swift endorsed kamala harris and tim waltz he wasn't picking on her for no reason but those aren't political pros i just i'm just telling you what what

what some i think what some democrats don't like is he's spraying you know the whole country of anybody who he doesn't like he wants to attack rather than political combatants i'm just saying to me that's that's that's why some democrats can justify it.

But Megan,

I wouldn't underestimate of all the candidates we've talked about in 2028, who else has drawn fire from Stephen Chung and all these different people in the White House?

They're taking the bait.

They're elevating Newsome to an equal that we feel like when you speak, we need to go after you.

And if you're Newsome now,

Trump does that with everyone.

Well, sure, but you think about it this way now.

Democrats are going to be asked, you with Newsome or Trump?

That is the dynamic Trump used in 2023 when he was getting arrested and all this stuff.

You with me or are you with Nancy Pelosi and, you know, Joe Biden?

So it is elevating Newsom.

Again, you got to win the primary to get to the general.

It's smart.

He's separating himself.

Back here to Joe Scarborough in 29A.

Like, you're trying to do everything to distract the American people from the fact that you're screwing up on job one.

And job one is helping working Americans and helping the middle class afford their lives and build a life where their children are going to live better than them.

That's the American dream.

And you have done nothing but play politics over the past year and a half.

It's really not that hard to do.

We'll see.

True.

Cut and paste.

It's really not hard to do.

Gavin Newsom, he wants to own Donald Trump.

He wants to be Donald Trump.

You can't be Donald Trump light.

Hey, Gavin, talk into the camera and talk about making life more affordable, not only for people in California, but if you want to talk about people in New Hampshire, our people in Iowa, our people in South Carolina, they would like to know how their lives can be more affordable, not how you can own Donald Trump.

Donald Trump is not running again.

I don't know.

I'm kind of against Scarborough and in favor of Gavin Newsom's plan here.

I don't want to see Gavin Newsom become president, but he is generating more attention for himself than we've seen from any other candidate and that we've than we've seen for him.

And like the same old, like once you get the eyes on you, then you can start talking about what's happening to people in New Hampshire, Sean.

But like you need to get the eyes on you first.

Yeah, I will say I've now in the last 25 minutes watched more MSNBC than I have in the last five years.

I think you mean MS Now.

Oh, my apologies.

My apologies.

I didn't acknowledge that brilliant branding strategy.

So

the thing that I find that I kind of disagree with is at some point, people, you know, Scarborough's got a point here, which is there's got to be some sort of plan about being making life better.

And that's where I think that there's a fundamental problem here with all these Democrats.

What are they for?

They've criticized his crackdown on crime, his crackdown on the border, his crackdown on trade,

billions of dollars of new revenue coming into the federal government through tariffs, which most of them previously supported.

They've criticized him on gerrymandering, which they led the way on in Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, etc.

Being too mean to Europeans.

Yeah, which now we've got a NATO that's paying, theoretically, 5% of their GDP, which is not true.

But the bottom line is he got NATO to ante up.

Mark Root, the Secretary General, said the other night Trump was right in his criticism and he has achieved results.

The bottom line is

name something that they're for.

Name one thing they're for, and the

name is zero.

Oh, yeah, abortion and LGBTQIA.

Here's our friend Mark Halperin sitting down with Joe Scarborough and getting into some of these issues on his MK Media show, Next Up, SAT 29B now.

What about people thinking of running for president?

Should they be a Democrat?

Should they be talking about Trump or should they similarly move on and talk about Trump?

No, no, no, again, because Trump is so baked into the cake.

Again, it's like the Iraq war.

You just, nobody's going to change their mind about Donald Trump.

And we keep thinking

that this is going to happen and this will, this is when the walls are closing in on Donald Trump.

Something I've probably said 87 times.

No,

no, the walls aren't going to close in on Donald Trump.

And that's not your concern.

Your concern.

is getting elected to Congress.

Your concern is winning the House of Representatives.

Your concern is is taking over the committees and by doing so, being able to stop a lot of what Republicans are doing.

Okay, I'll let you take it, Mark, but I've got to say the irony, like the gall of Scarborough, of all people to say you can't change people's minds on Donald Trump.

Like he is the living Sybil when it comes to Donald Trump.

Nobody kissed Trump's ass more.

Nobody, including Hannity, in 2016.

I know I was there.

And then when he found out he wasn't going to be vice president or be brought along for the ride, he completely turned on Trump, he and his bride, Mika, and spent the next eight years bashing him to hell.

And then when Trump wrested power back from everyone in the country, he went and bent the knee and kissed the ring at Mar-a-Lago.

So please, okay, sorry.

He was your guest.

So you're not in the same mind space as yours, truly.

But what, it's basically the same point he's making there, no, that like focus on the issues, don't get too wrapped up in the Donald Trump thing.

You're not going to move minds or hearts by making your potential race or come back as a Dem about him.

Well, a few things.

Besides Joe being my guest, he's my friend.

And I've resolved not to step between the two of you.

So I'll pass on

some of those characterizations.

But I'll say this.

Joe is a big believer in thinking a new about Trump.

Maybe not in the exact way you described it, but he's come to appreciate how formidable Trump is as a political force.

And I think what his main point is, is that if you try just to do what Gavin Newsom is doing without talking to voters about the real lives, improving their real lives, you will just, you will be caught up in the centrifugal force and you won't have a path to being president of the United States or leading a coalition into a majority.

So you can't ignore Trump.

As Dan said, he's going to be the dominant force in our politics through the election.

But I think what if you listen to my conversation with Joe, he's advocating not being

letting your biorhythms, your daily political biorhythms, be about trying to beat Donald Trump at his own game because Gavin Newsom's not going to do that.

And he's the best equipped of anyone in the party to try to do it.

Or, Dan, the Dems could go with this.

Watch.

My name is Veronica.

We needed to see it again.

Look at the signer.

Okay, you get it.

You get it.

You get my point.

The signer's trying to sign.

It's so on brand for the Dems.

We got to get the sign language lady so she can sign the Trill Dar.

You got to get the mariachi banned.

If Republicans brought a mariachi ban at an anti-illegal immigration rally, this is all about immigration.

They'd be getting called racists up and down the dial, but it's fine because it's Michelle Wu, the Boston mayor, who's woke.

Yeah, I think I'd pull a muscle if I tried to hit a high note that high

doing that.

Look, I.

The party is not cool.

That's my point, Dan.

The party is uncool.

And I guess Gavin Newsom is making an attempt to put an end to that by trying to act.

like Donald Trump and like he's not afraid of the big bad bully, which makes him somewhat cool, or so he hopes.

Yeah, I think that's right.

I mean, look, go back to Bill Clinton's famous line: strong and wrong beats weak and right.

Like there is a performative side to being president, to being a leader.

You do have to show that you're not afraid, that you're willing to throw a punch and take a punch and keep going.

You also need to inspire people with, as Mark said, an agenda that focuses on the real lives of real people.

I think one of the big things that Democrats constantly refuse to acknowledge is that Trump's rise was fueled on his agenda.

Being against the wars, being trying to change trade, being against the open borders of immigration, which Sean was there, the RNC's famous autopsy after 13 was that the party needed to be more hospitable to loosening immigration laws.

So Trump got people behind him on policy, on a bold agenda.

So ultimately, we've got to go there.

But you can have the greatest agenda on earth.

But if you're a wimp,

if you're afraid of J.D.

Vance, afraid of the online world, you're not going to go anywhere.

So, I mean, again, this is a baby step for the party with what Gavin Newsom is doing.

But ultimately, it's definitely not enough to become president.

Yeah.

To me, it feels more like an audition

than an actual like campaign.

It's an audition to be considered for the campaign.

That's how I read it.

In any event, okay, more with Mark, Dan, and Sean coming up.

Why did Abby Phillip over on CNN explicitly attack two of her guests this week?

We'll show you what she did.

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Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show.

Back with me now, Mark Halperin, host of Next Up with Mark Halperin, Sean Spicert, and Dan Turntine.

Sorry for the changing pronunciations of your last name, Dan.

It's time, time, like a, like time,

right?

Yes, yes, that's okay.

All my life.

I know, I'm sure.

That's like my name, too.

I get the Megan, I got the Megan, I got the Megan.

I don't, even I don't know how to pronounce it, so it's fine.

Okay, I do want to talk about an extraordinary thing that's going on.

It's related to this whole Smithsonian crackdown that Trump is doing, which I totally applaud.

Having taken my family through DC, we went through some of the museums in April of 2023.

I thought it was ridiculous how much focus there was on all the worst chapters of America.

And by the way, at that time, they were still doing the

online.

There was a digital trigger warning for the founding documents.

Like you might be triggered if you read the Constitution.

I mean, we've really truly lost our minds for the last five years.

And it's evident as you walk around these museums.

So Trump is trying to stop this.

He's not saying, get rid of everything related to slavery, like the left is claiming.

He's just saying, why does the focus have to be so much on all our darkest chapters, as opposed to communicating what an extraordinary and special nation this is, which, yes, has not always gotten it right, not by a long shot.

He's talking about focus and emphasis, but you wouldn't know that to listen to his critics.

So Abby Phillip has this, I mean, literally, nobody's watching that show.

I think it's just us four, just for just pulling clips.

We pulled the ratings.

They are dreadful.

My God, they're so bad.

All of CNN is going away.

Trust me, I looked at the numbers today.

But in any event, she's there hanging on like the rest of them.

And the only thing that's good about her show is sometimes she puts on Scott Jennings and it's fun to watch him fight.

And then she had Jillian Michaels on the other day, and Jillian Michaels raised this issue about the Smithsonian.

Well,

what does Abby Phillip do?

She decides to go on an even more terrible person's podcast, Karis Wisher.

And she decides to shit all over her guests when speaking to Karis Wisher.

These are the people who make the show tolerable for some small faction of Republicans.

And she decides to take a massive dump on both of them.

Let's see, I'll give you first, let's just do what she said about Jillian Michaels first, thought four.

And then, when it became clear that she was trying to sort of downplay slavery, I was just like shocked.

Like, are you really going to do this on national television, giving her an opportunity to not do it?

But she continued on.

And then later on, she said that she got this list of talking points from the White House about exhibits that they wanted to dispute.

And frankly,

it was pretty ignorant.

ignorant.

Look, I don't like to talk about negatively about guests who come on the show because I just don't think that's good form.

Even when I disagree with people, I respect them.

I want to embarrass themselves on national television.

I think it is their right to do that.

There we go.

So I don't like to talk negatively about them, but she was ignorant and she embarrassed herself.

And that is her right.

So it's not exactly the most, I've never seen Mark Calpern do this after somebody swings by next stop or two-way.

I learned that from David Brinkley.

You don't speak ill of your guests after they leave, and certainly not after they've been nice enough to give you some of their time.

So she did, and she took a shot at Jillian, and then she took a shot at Scott Phillips.

Sorry, Scott, who makes this show worth watching, trying to find the sound bite in which she goes after him, Scott Jennings.

It's SOP5.

Never bringing people on to say crazy things.

Let's be frank about that.

That is never the intention, okay?

People's decisions to say crazy things are never expected or predictable.

However, I mean, and I know that folks really dislike Scott for his views.

But I would say that,

you know,

there are views that you don't like, that you think are unfounded,

but that are pretty widely shared.

And I think Scott falls into that category.

Now, there are definitely times, if you watch the show,

that we have conversations where I will say to Scott and others, just stop because we're not playing whatever game it is that you want to play in this moment.

Got it, Sean.

So she needs to apologize for Scott Jennings because she's heard, CNN's audience is overwhelmingly left, that people don't like him and he says crazy things.

And, you know, he's such a lunatic, it's worthwhile airing those views because they belong to MAGA

yeah by the way I mean the only time that anyone talks about CNN now but that that is as close to watching CNN as I come though so now I've got MSNBC and it's nuffed CNN as I mean

the only

gosh it's gonna take forever for me to

I bet you that by the time I get that logo right, that they will be out of business anyway.

So that's actually

the only reason that the only reason that people talk about CNN now is because of usually something that Scott Jennings has actually said.

So their relevance is actually pretty much tied to Scott Jennings going on shows.

That being said, I find it interesting how she described that.

People don't like Scott because of his views.

Well, I'm sorry.

That's a very myopic look at the world, meaning basically all the people that we have come on my show or my network at CNN are people who agree with me that think that everything in MAGA is horrible.

I just, I've watched CNN implode is amazing.

You would think that after they got rid of everyone like Jim Acosta, they fired Brian Stelter once, that they would at least sort of learn their lesson.

Instead, they bring Brian back and double down on stupid.

It's so bad.

Let me just give you a little taste of how she's doing.

At 10 p.m.,

this is just the other night on Tuesday.

At 10 p.m., Greg Gutfeld in the key demo that they use to get advertisers pulled in

a three, which is 327,000, which is not bad at 10 p.m.

Abby Phillip, 91,000.

She did not even break 100,000.

You guys don't understand.

Do you know how bad this is?

This is so dreadful.

You cannot stay in business like this.

This is the prime time.

The prime time demo did not break 100,000.

Thanks to Abby Phillip, who went down from her almost equally crappy

at nine, which was 112.

Anderson Cooper had 86,000 versus Jesse Waters 290.

7 p.m., Laura Ingram gets 264.

The 7 p.m.

on CNN gets 76.

Brett Baer gets 226.

Jake Tapper, 73.

The 5, which is the number one rated show on TV, gets 332.

Jake Tapper gets 85.

These numbers are just absolutely dreadful.

And by the way, Abby Phillip is in last place.

She's also losing to MSNBC.

You cannot, you cannot stay employed.

And I guarantee you, she's making millions of dollars, millions of dollars for putting no points on the board because that's how cable news operates for now.

But as Mark pointed out in the beginning of the show, News Flash, cable news and TV news is on a bit of an iceberg.

or I guess a bit of a ship about to hit an iceberg.

YouTube is where it's at.

And so she's on a sinking ship.

But in any event, the solution, Dan, is not to then start ripping the two guests you've had on who've said things that conservatives agree with.

I mean, Megan, what were we talking about to start this show?

The decline of Democratic voter registration advantages and the struggles of the Democratic Party.

And now you have a host on a channel watched by a lot of Democrats.

in which you're saying that the primary guest in Scott Jennings, who represents 50% of this country, that I have to shut him down often because his views are so unacceptable or not mainstream in her telling, right?

This is the feedback loop.

This is the, you know, they're crazy, they're wrong, we're right.

All they say is lies, and we're always right.

And, you know, I look at Donald Trump, RFK, Tulsi, Gabbard, like this big tent.

They have a lot of kind of, it's a raucous coalition.

We are increasingly getting narrow.

And even in our media filters, there is still this kind of Trump derangement syndrome of focusing on the man, on process, on right versus wrong, instead of kind of welcoming the big debate.

We're not going to get better until we open up.

These places don't have a business model, in part because I guarantee you, none of these anchors' numbers are going to get better.

They're just not.

The audience has spoken, as our friend Brid Hume would say, sometimes the dog won't eat the dog food.

And they don't seem inclined to make any changes.

And their identities are up in the air.

Whether you're talking about MS Now, see, I did it, or CNN.

They pay lip service to the notion, no, we don't want to just appeal to the left.

We don't want to be biased.

We want to appeal to all potential customers.

But then if you look at their coverage from Friday till Monday of President Trump's efforts to try to get a peace deal, it's as hostile and as myopically deranged as any coverage of Trump I've seen ever.

It's just mocking him, accusing him of just being in it for a Nobel Peace Prize, of dividing Europe, of saying the Europeans had to come to keep him from making a deal.

He can't make a deal without Europe and Zelensky.

It's all just made up.

So, you know, I want strong news organizations, but these places are going with prime time anchors in particular, who simply do not have an interest in bigger numbers because if they did, they would recognize that they're turning off more than half the country.

And with Scott, Scott is the best thing to have.

I'd like to see her and Abby Phillips numbers with Abby Phillips numbers without Scott, because

anyone I know who watches the show is watching for Scott.

Exactly right.

They like the conflict at a minimum.

And what does she do?

She goes out and dumps on him.

That's the thanks he gets.

She was one of the worst going out there and saying, oh, the Europeans rushed to the White House out of 9-11 level concerns about Trump.

Wrong.

That's her bias.

And then back to, again, speaking about what we did in the first hour.

So this is what she does after Jillian Michaels reflects some of those concerns about, you know, that Trump and Team Trump Trump have about the Smithsonian, the museums.

Like, what are we doing?

Why are we like, America's all about slavery.

That's the only thing we've ever done.

That's what defines us.

Not the liberation of Europe and the

saving the free world.

Not the defeat of communism in the 1980s.

No, it's all about slavery.

We've never been able to get past it.

We're still just as racist as we were.

She decides the other day to go out there and open up her show with this.

SOT ONE.

Last week on this show, a guest shocked the table by arguing in part that slavery in America can't just be blamed on one race, and that museums put too much focus on the role of white people who participated in that terrible institution.

And now tonight, that same argument is being pushed by the President of the United States.

Donald Trump says that one of the reasons for his crackdown on Smithsonian museums is: quote, everything discussed is how bad slavery was.

It's important to say, objectively, slavery was indeed bad.

It was evil.

And it is impossible to understand the true history of this country

without fully grappling with slavery's impact.

There were many of the white Americans who did not personally own slaves.

They benefited from a caste system that concentrated wealth and political power in their hands.

When we acknowledge the existence of black people who operated George Washington's Mount Vernon or the black hands that built the White House, we are acknowledging the existence, the perseverance, and the contributions of the souls that white supremacy sought to erase.

And I share this not as a lecture for you, but as a lesson.

Really?

Okay.

It's a miracle she has 91,000, John.

A miracle.

I mean, look, there's a few things there.

One, I would just say with respect to Scott Jennings, whether it's Scott Jennings or Jillian Michaels, when you go out and do that to a guest, to Mark's point about David Brinkley's lesson, they're never coming back again.

And as a 53-year-old man, I would have no way.

I rarely stay up till 10 o'clock.

So the idea that Scott Jennings is going to want to stay up and go on that show again is nuts, right?

They're going to alienate guests because it's hard enough as an older guy to stay up that late.

But the bigger and broader point that I think is sort of,

you know, from the Trump going after the Smithsonian to the Kennedy Center is a huge contrast from Trump 1.0 to 2.0.

And it's this.

The first term, we largely set aside culture, if you will.

Trump said, I'm just not going to go to the Kennedy Center.

I'm not going to be involved in the Kenny Center honors.

We're not going to deal with higher education.

We'll just focus on some of these policy agendas.

They didn't yield the field in Trump 2.0.

They're basically saying, as Andrew Reitard did so correctly, politics is downstream from culture.

And therefore, if we really want to make change, we need to attack the culture in our country and the pervasiveness of the woke DEI culture that has grown, especially in the last four years.

They're taking on the Kennedy Center.

They're taking on higher education.

They're taking on the Smithsonians, right?

They are actually understanding how much more powerful they can be this time, taking on corporations.

But the bottom line is this administration, Trump 2.0, is vastly different than 1.0, where he did a lot of great things.

And I'm not, I think this time he understands the power and levers of government in a way that he didn't in Trump 1.

And frankly, has a team around him that's willing to take on that

culture war that we didn't in the first term.

And so bravo to them for doing this, because this is where real change will occur.

What she doesn't realize is the country is with Trump on this.

There's very few people who aren't far-left woke Democrats who want to walk into the Smithsonian museums throughout Washington and just be reminded of our darkest chapters.

Just bring back the absolute worst things we did over and over and over, as opposed to celebrate the rich cultural history of America and its achievements.

So what does she do?

She puts on her school marm outfit with like the

ruffles in her, like the monochromatic red outfit with the silk ruffles coming down, George Washington style, you could argue.

Looks like the karate or whatever the thing is that they used to wear.

With her little, you know, red jacket and sits on the three-quarter chair, the stool

in front of the screen and indeed lectures to us, complete with graphics,

explaining to us that there was this thing called slavery and it was bad.

And here's why it was bad.

And here's how all the white people benefit.

This is absolutely fucking absurd.

Literally, nobody is challenging that we had slavery and that it's bad.

It's all about focus, which I don't know her.

She may be dumb.

I was going to say she's too smart to not understand that.

This is probably very dishonest, but she might be dumb.

So I'm actually not going to give her that the benefit of that doubt.

It's absurd.

We got to switch gears because there's breaking news right now.

At Union Station, the Washington, D.C.

train station, where Trump and his team are in the middle of trying to clean up the homeless problem there, trying to clean up homeless problems on the streets of Washington, trying to stop crime with the National Guard and others.

It's working, by the way.

And now some protesters, remember last week, we played the video of the protester, the one white lady who's going to hand out the plastic neon-colored whistles for the homeless to blow.

if somebody tried to remove them.

Wait.

It's like, well, who's coming?

Who's going to come and get you?

Literally, like, is there a brigade of people waiting to rescue the homeless?

If so, where have they been?

Why are they just waiting until a National Guard approaches them and for them to blow their whistles?

Like, do something today.

Don't wait until the whistle incident, white lady.

But here is what's happening there.

First, let me just give you a feel for what the protests look like.

And you're about to see Stephen Miller and the vice president watch.

All right, that's it.

And

give him a B plus on the rhyming.

The catchiness, it needs work.

It's not like a jingle that stays in your head.

Here is Stephen Miller, who showed up and did not mince words.

There are homeless encampments that have made it impossible for families to use public parks and public recreation for as long as I've lived here.

There are hundreds of residents of this city who are shot in street violence every single year, making it one of the most violent cities on planet Earth.

And the voices that you hear out there, those crazy communists, they have no roots.

They have no connections to the city.

They have no families they are raising in this city.

They have no one that they are sending to school in this city.

They have no jobs in this city.

They have no connections to this community at all.

But they're the ones who've been advocating for the 1%.

The criminals, the killers, the rapists, the drug dealers.

And I'm glad they're here today because me, Pete, and the vice president are all going to leave here.

And inspired by them, we're going to add thousands more resources to this city to get the criminals and the gang members out of here.

All these demonstrators that you've seen out here in recent days, all of these elderly white hippies, they're not part of the city and never have been.

And by the way, most of the citizens who live in Washington, D.C.

are black.

This is not a city that has had any safety for its black citizens for generations.

And President Trump is the one who is fixing that with the support of the Metropolitan Police Department, the support of the National Guard, and our federal law enforcement officers.

So we're going to ignore these stupid white hippies that all need to go home and take a nap because they're all over 90 years old.

And we're going to get back to the business of protecting the American people and the citizens of Washington, D.C.

He's amazing.

He's standing next to Pete Hegg says, Secretary of Defense, and J.D.

Vance, sitting Vice President of the United States in Union Station, taking this on directly.

It's extraordinary.

Elderly, stupid white hippies can go home.

D.C.

is a black city, and they appreciate what we're doing.

Boom.

Truth bomb dropped, Dan.

Yeah, as usual, he might be a little over the top in his rhetoric, but he is right.

Look, D.C.

was home for me for 20 years.

My family still lives there.

Before Trump did this latest move, when I would call down there just to check in with people, ask how their families are, et cetera.

The last few years, you heard increasingly, Dan, crime is getting really bad again here.

You know, you can't walk.

The Capitol Hill staffers who live up on the hill would talk about taking Ubers five blocks because they didn't want to walk home anymore, going to a nationals baseball game.

That's about half mile walk from the hill down.

People don't walk down there or at least walk back at night after the game anymore.

It is bad.

And so I think when what Donald Trump did, this is where it drives me nuts as a Democrat.

Rather than say, look, this move is insufficient, right?

Ultimately, we need 10,000 more police officers.

You know, nationwide, we need to have more resources.

It's obsession about the process.

It's obsession about Donald Trump.

He's authoritative.

We are basically defending crime, saying, well, it's okay.

It's in urban cities.

It's not that bad.

It drives me nuts that as a party, we again will not focus on the substance and try to outflank him, but instead go down the rabbit hole of process arguments.

Megan, it's shining so funny about this.

Yeah.

Two things.

One, I used to live next to Union Station.

It is a shell of itself now.

Most of the stores are gone.

It truly has been a homeless encampment in there.

It's disgusting because it's an absolutely beautiful, beautiful building.

And it's it's kind of scary when you get off the Amtrak now just to walk out.

But for all these people on the left in particular who decry the use of the National Guard, now you three are, I think, all New Yorkers or been in and out of the city.

I don't go that often, but when I do train up to New York City and I get out at Moynihan or Penn, I believe those individuals are National Guards that are protecting Penn Station and Moynihan Station.

And no one has ever had a problem with that.

Right?

The idea of bringing in additional security forces to the nation's capital, so whether you're a visitor, a diplomat, a student, or a resident there, that it's safe should be welcomed by all.

This is another example of Trump just doing common sense things that the left gets triggered by and makes stupid responses.

Again, this is where if they had any sense, they would just say, on this issue, we agree with the president and move on.

But they want to fight him on every single thing.

And this is what makes, we talked about this, why we're losing people.

It's not just young men.

It's basically anybody that cares about their personal safety and security or their families.

There aren't people who feel safe in the nation's capital.

And to ignore it and to dismiss it, as Kara Swisher, our previous example on another subject, dismissed the other day on CNN and said it's a made-up controversy by Donald Trump.

It's just simply not true.

I mean, to Dan's point, I put this out on Twitter the other day.

If you're a Democrat, do me a favor.

Go to the neighborhood of your choosing when the sun goes down, ditch your security detail and walk five blocks, and then you can talk.

None of them will do that because they know it's true.

Wait, and look at this one, Sean.

It's not just Kara Swisher.

Take a look at Eugene Daniels, who was

at Politico.

Now he's at MSNBC, head of the White House Correspondents Association, who constantly, yeah, sorry, MS Now, correct.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Who

he loves to dress up like Beyonce.

This is, I mean, literally like Beyonce, like a woman, like his big bottom showing.

Yeah, look, look, this is the head of the White House correspondence dinner, I mean, association and dinner.

And he wants you to know there's no crime problem to speak of in D.C., SOT 26.

I have walked the streets in heels, nail polish, and shorts on Pride and was just fine.

So the streets of D.C.

are not strife with crime, as everyone's trying to say.

I'm sorry, but you're an idiot, Eugene.

You're right.

He's an idiot because he didn't get mugged during the Pride parade.

He can speak for the black community.

I have to tell you something, Mark Alperin.

As somebody who believes 100% what they're doing down there and shares many of the principles that J.D.

Vance shares and what Stephen Miller was articulating there, it is just, it's not just what they're doing.

The fact that those three guys went to Union Station while there were these ridiculous protests trying to stop them from cleaning it up and fought.

And Stephen Miller saying, you know what, we're going to go back to the White House and we're going to double down and we're going to send more troops because you're doing this.

Or Tom Homan saying to the sanctuary cities, one of my guys took it in the face in sanctuary cities thanks to you mayors not protecting him.

We're going to target sanctuary cities above the other cities now.

I can't explain how gratifying it is for someone like me, and I'm sure many who are listening now to hear that, to hear like unapologetic fighting for ideals we know to be just.

Well, the parallel to to what's gone on in the Ukraine-Russia negotiations is pretty stark and clear.

I said that was as bad a case as anti-Trump coverage as I seem.

This is pretty bad too.

And it goes back to Democrats have ruled this city forever.

And as Stephen Miller said, the residents of the city, predominantly black, have not had safety for their kids, for their neighborhoods, for their communities.

If the Democrats have a better idea, they should put it forward.

But if not, they should welcome an effort to try to fix things.

And really,

when we start to get intertwined with the immigration stuff and all of these reporters saying how outrageous that they're trying to

detain and deport people here illegally, they just, again and again, not just on the wrong side of public opinion, not just on the wrong side of the politics, but on the wrong side of doing what's right for D.C.

I.

We need to be vigilant.

They shouldn't be violating civil liberties.

They shouldn't be doing things that are inefficiently done.

They shouldn't be be using the military in a gratuitous way.

But the president has a plan to try to fix D.C., where tourists from around the country and the world come, where citizens have not been afforded the most basic responsibility of government, which is public safety.

And instead, they want to turn it into another violation of norms that offends them about Donald Trump.

Okay, so we've teased it long enough.

Might as well get to.

MS now.

I mean, I think for most of us, it's going to be MS DNC for the duration.

But in any event, they've decided to change their call letters because they had to, because there's been a split at the corporate level and NBC did not want to share the call letters with the loser sister cable channel anymore and insisted that there be a breakup.

I love that NBC is pretending it's this unvarnished brand that has no political bias attached to it whatsoever in the eyes of the consumer.

So if it could just separate legally from MSNBC, people will realize that.

That's why the rebranding happened.

Now it stands for MS

Now, which stands for news,

opinion, and the world, which doesn't make any sense.

Is there no news and opinion in the world?

Like, what

my source, my source for news, opinion, in the world.

Like, what do you mean, news, opinion,

like in the world, outside of the world?

How did we have to add the world?

I don't totally understand.

But in any event, MS Now is the new call

sign.

And here, back to Joe Scarborough, Mark's favorite, defending the name with this positive spin.

Sop 40.

They even have a graphic of this shows we're independent.

Like when you have somebody come into your conference after working for like big corporations and say, and you're talking, you're saying,

and they go, we want you to be entrepreneurial.

We want you to come up with new ideas.

We want you to push the boundaries.

I'm excited about that.

So I'm excited about this.

I've always thought about this network and CNBC and USA and actually all of those assets as insurgent networks.

Right.

This is an insurgent network.

So it does seem an ideal time to rebrand, an ideal time to embrace a new identity, as you said, to be an insurgent network.

You know, Megan, I finally figured out with the people who rebranded New Coke where they went.

Now we know.

This will not be the name.

Yeah, I agree.

It won't.

No.

What's the name going to be?

Just MS.

I don't know, but something better.

I mean, it's so misguided.

They originally said, you know, they weren't going to change the name, but it won't be the name.

It just, it's too stupid.

Like, it's too stupid.

And, and, and, and my, I no longer draw a check from Comcast.

So I can say openly that whoever came, whoever came up with this process needs to reevaluate the process in place to make decisions.

Cause this is just a

several week-long PR hit.

They don't have to pay someone else to come up with a new name.

They don't have to embarrassingly tell the media there's yet another new name.

Big mistake, I would say.

Big mistake.

Honestly, I don't know what to say.

To go with insurgents as you're like, we're an insurgency.

I mean, literally, most adults of a certain age understand that term as about Iraq and ISIS and a group that killed American service personnel.

It's not really how you want to describe yourself as a news organization, like a bunch of disgusting, heartless killers.

And by the way, if you listen to the full sound bite there, what they're bragging about is that now you see they're going to be,

this is their break from legacy media.

This is their break.

So they're no longer part of legacy media.

They're basically doing what the four of us are doing.

You see, this is their attempt to make the cable news channel, MSNBC, into like a two-way or a next up or a Megan Kelly show, trying to revitalize their relevance, Dan.

It's like, what an obvious, why don't they, why doesn't anyone come out and say, this was so fucking stupid, but they insisted that we do it.

So, all right, that's who we're going to say we are now.

I love it because I agree with Mark.

I think it's the dumbest name I've ever heard.

That the jokes online were hilarious about

really stands for.

Look, I think if you're going to relaunch like this, like let's just say the name is great, if we all wanted to go along with it.

What's the new product?

What is the insurgent new ideas or formats or hosts or shows that you're going to have that says like, this is new, this is clean, this is exciting?

We get it.

Yeah, we're going to you know mimic people like megan kelly and others who are drawing ratings and growing rapidly i don't understand you know what what they did it was just like yep we're gonna continue to do the same lineup with the same posts but with a different name but we're insurgents now i that's exactly right you know just i'll give you a little bit more rachel maddow she spoke to it again more bullshit on how this is like a real plus sat 41.

in the end once that is stood up we will no longer have to compete with NBC News' properties for the news gathering, the product of the news gathering organization.

We can apply our own instincts, our own queries, our own priorities to getting stuff that we need from reporters and correspondents.

And so it's going to be better.

Oh, my God.

All right.

I mean, I worked at NBC.

I found that.

NBC is the deep pocket.

NBC is the one that has the teams that actually can cover world events and has the money.

And MSNBC was the beneficiary of that to try to say it's a benefit to lose those pockets and be now the non-money-making loser cable sister, stepsister that no one wanted is just another blatant lie.

Go ahead, Sean.

I was going to say, I know we started the show by talking about the...

issues that the Democrats have on messaging and the DNC in particular.

I now feel even worse for MSNBC.

I mean, you talk about stupid.

They're out there.

It just doesn't make sense.

The bottom line is they got sold off and they're acting like somehow they're an insurgent.

It doesn't, no one buys it.

It just, it's amazing how, like, do you

mean, no one wanted you.

You literally couldn't keep the name anymore.

And you're acting like this is a good thing.

You got broken up.

Like, this is the person who got broken up with being like, I wanted to be single.

I just, I didn't really want to be dating anyone anymore.

Like, they got, they got dumped.

That's the answer.

Give me, give me out of it.

It's like your parents raised you to age 14 and then put you up for an adopt for adoption and said, change its name.

We don't want it to have any affiliation with us.

And you're out there like, sure, I have an insurgent now.

I'm an insurgent.

I'm thrilled to no longer have a dollar to my name to pay my bills.

Because truly, I mean, this is the new situation for them.

Go ahead, Mark.

Give me access to my ChatGPT account in 20 minutes.

I'll get them a better logo and a better name.

Okay, before I let you go, Mark Halperin, Vladimir Putin was not arrested.

when he came through for the summit.

I heard some nonsense on Tuay.

And would you like to account for that prediction?

I can.

It was a joke.

My point of the thing, and I may explain this several times, happy to do it again.

My point was

it was kind of incredible to host on United States soil a murderous dictator.

And that

the moment was for the president to manage and justify the reality that if he showed up in Europe, he probably would be arrested.

I didn't have any sources saying he would have been arrested.

I didn't literally mean he would be arrested.

What I meant, to be provocative, was what an incredible moment that President Trump is bringing this guy, not just to meet with him, but to meet with him in the United States, to highlight the starkness of this, that he was the only way to make peace in this war is for the president to sit with a murderous dictator.

That was my point.

I guess I didn't make it.

The progress that we made there appears to be eroding by the second as the Russians came out the next day and said,

Yeah, I said,

Well, let me finish my point.

I'm telling you what Russians do.

Sorry.

I'm aware.

As they came out and said, oh, we deny everything.

Like, we didn't really agree to security guarantees by European countries or the United States.

In fact, that's a deal breaker.

And, you know, we're really not sure we're going to have a two-way meeting with Zelensky.

So they're playing their games.

And yet, you have the Europeans continuously and openly saying, we have never been this close to ending this war since the four years that it's been in progress and crediting the president for getting us there.

All right, I got to go.

You guys, thanks for being here.

We'll talk to you soon.

Coming up next, the CEO of Burna.

Now, let me tell you something.

Burna is an advertiser on this show.

And

we don't normally have the advertisers come on as guests, but you have got to see this product, okay?

Because it's the new thing in self-defense.

And I love my Burna.

I'll explain why I love my Burna.

And every single female friend I have loves her Burna and the guys too, but I'll tell you why it makes particular sense for women when we come back.

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I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

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Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show.

Viewers and listeners of this program have heard me talk about Burna, a company that makes less lethal weapons for self-defense.

The Massachusetts-based corporation makes pistols and rifles, but they're not technically firearms because they're powered by CO2 canisters rather than gunpowder or any sort of explosive.

The idea is to give individuals a powerful way to defend themselves without resorting to deadly force.

The company says it has sold nearly 700,000 of its launchers since 2019 and has yet to learn about a single fatality.

But that does not mean that the weapons are not powerful.

Here's a demonstration of the force of Burna's kinetic projectiles.

Watch.

Wow, we just learned a lot just then, and mostly it's that the burnout completely destroys random objects.

I think that would dissuade an assailant.

Oh, God, God.

Ow!

Ow!

It shows a picture of the leg.

The last person shot in that video is the company's president and CEO, Brian Gantz.

Brian joins us now to discuss more.

Brian, you really took one for the team there.

You know, that was the title of the video.

CEO takes one for the team because I couldn't convince any of my employees to get shot.

So, all right, I want the audience to see I've got two of the compact launchers right here.

And I love the black one because it looks like a real gun.

I have to say.

Now there's no, there's nothing in here.

I've, I've been pulling the trigger because there's nothing in here and I know that and we check.

But it's a very kind of, it's a cool looking pistol because it does resemble a real gun.

And in the moment, God forbid you get confronted by an intruder.

I have to say, this is something that a lot of my friends in particular who have had no training on guns would feel comfortable taking out because every woman I know who hasn't been trained in guns is concerned about having a gun because she's convinced it'll be used against her and she doesn't want to get killed.

And this is a way, I think, where a woman can have something that could protect her and she doesn't have to worry that, God forbid, it gets turned on her, that she's dead.

I mean, do you, do you feel, do you get that kind of feedback from a lot of your customers?

We do.

I mean, there's tremendous stopping power with the burner.

And I'll tell you, Megan, I've been a gun owner my entire life.

And, but I always wondered how quick would I be to pull pull the trigger.

And I had an experience about a decade ago, which really informed me as to how quick I would be to pull the trigger.

I was in a road rage incident, and there was a guy that was right on my bumper, and he was banging his horn.

And I really got nervous.

And I pulled off to the side of the road, thinking that he would go around me.

But he didn't.

He pulled in right behind me and he got out of his truck.

And I've got a Glock 19, my nine millimeter, the glove box.

And I'm thinking, do I get out of the car with my gun or do I get out without my gun?

And I'm thinking, nothing good can happen if I get out of the car with my gun.

So I got out without a gun and nothing good happened.

I mean, this guy was bigger, younger, stronger, angrier.

And he came at me and he threw me to the ground.

And, you know, he could have really hurt me.

Fortunately, all he really hurt was my pride.

But I realized at that moment that if I wasn't...

prepared to pull the trigger, the gun was of no value to me.

And although I am an avid 2A supporter, I was not going to shoot an unarmed man.

And that was kind of the genesis of Burna.

We wanted to give somebody the ability to stop an assailant, to hold them at bay, to call the police, but without the risk of taking a life.

And that's what Burna is really designed for.

I think it's a good supplement.

You know, so a lot of people listening to this program will have firearms in their home.

But you're right, not every situation calls for it.

And so why wouldn't you supplement, depending on the situation?

You don't always have to go to an 11 where you actually are placing, you know, a possible fatality out there as one of the outcomes.

But with Burna, you're not.

Can you explain the two different kinds of ammunition that you can put in the Burna pistol?

So here's one.

I've got these sort of these kinetic projectiles.

This is one of the things you get.

The audience can see it's like, it looks almost like a gumball.

You'd have to keep that away from the kids and the dogs.

Strudwick is my main concern with my Burna kinetic projectiles.

But explain the two types of ammo.

Okay.

Well, first off, just to get back to this continuum of force that you were talking about, the police have everything from, you know, a voice command to baton, pepper spray, taser, all the way up to their firearm.

For most civilians, they don't have anything between, you know, a voice command and a gun.

And the burn it was to give them something a little bit further down in the continuum of force.

We make two different projectiles.

The kinetic projectile, which you were just showing, is what I got hit with.

And that is basically a a high-grade polymer.

Looks kind of like a marble, and it has tremendous pain compliance is what the police refer to it as, meaning it hurts like hell.

And you get hit with it, and the vast majority of people are going to turn and run.

But some people might be able to power through it.

For those people, we have these chemical irritant rounds.

They're filled with either pepper, OC, oleoresin capsaicin, or with CS, which is tear gas.

And what this does is the pellets explode when they hit the person.

They form this cloud around their head.

Immediately, they are temporarily blinded.

Their skin is on fire.

They're in respiratory distress.

Most people drop whatever they're holding.

They move their hands to their eyes because their eyes are on fire.

And they generally get down on their hands and knees.

And they let me show that because

we have a video of that kind of projectile in SOT 52.

He's writhing.

He's like waving his hands, trying to get the smell away from him.

He's crawling.

He's taking off his shirt.

He's trying to get released.

Your skin feels like it's on fire.

Anything where that beard has touched your skin will be burning.

Who's this poor guy who agreed to this?

This was actually one of our employees down in South Africa.

We had a much easier time in South Africa getting people to agree to get shot for a few hundred dollars than we did here in the U.S.

But it does bring it home.

So, wait, so how would it work then?

Like,

do you have to have two guns with the different projectiles?

No, the way I load my gun and the way I would recommend that you load your gun, Megan, is I put in the three chemical irritant projectiles first.

So they come out last.

And then I put in the two hard kinetic projectiles.

In most cases, the kinetic projectile will be more than adequate.

You know, you'll shoot somebody once and they will turn on their heels and run.

But if they...

are committed, if they're going to power through, you want to be able to physically stop them, as we just saw with that video, where you incapacitate them through

temporary blindness, respiratory distress,

intense burning sensation.

Interestingly, though,

most times the burn is used, nobody even pulls the trigger.

So I was on a podcast maybe two months ago, and I can't remember the guy's name, but he wrote that book, More Guns, Less Crime.

And he's a strong 2A proponent.

And he says 95% of the time, when you pull out a gun to stop an assailant,

you don't have to pull the trigger.

Just the idea

of fighting back.

Just are John, John Locke.

Yeah.

I think it's Menon.

Exactly, John Locke.

Yeah.

So just you pull it, and that's enough to deter people.

But I will say something I like about the chemical irritating rounds, like the next level round, is you don't actually have to have a direct hit for it to work.

Like you could have an intruder and you could shoot the wall right next to them if your aim is not so great and still take them down.

Well, you know, there is a certain horseshoes and hand grenades aspect to this.

All you need to do is get near the assailant.

But the police have really created an art out of this.

So for example, we're carried by over 300 police agencies.

The most dangerous thing in policing is you come up on a car, the windows are blackened.

The people are not getting out of the car.

You have no idea whether they've got a gun in the car.

And, you know, if you ask any law enforcement officer, this is the single most difficult traffic stop.

What they've been able to do with the burner is to shoot out the windows with the kinetic rounds.

So one round will take out the window and then to fire the chemical irritant rounds into the car.

And what happens is it's like a clown car with all these people come out, you know, with their hands up, coughing, choking, you know, getting down on their hands and knees.

So law enforcement uses it quite often where they don't even, they can't even see the person they're shooting at, but they can shoot rounds into a car, into a room, into some area where they want to get the people out of that car or out of that room.

Like I was thinking about, remember after the George Floyd incident in 2020, when these flash mobs for like two years would show up at the 7-Eleven or some local store and

go into the store and loot the, you know, there'd be looting, there'd be just rabble-rousing.

This, to me, would be the perfect kind of weapon to have because you don't actually want to shoot someone to death, but you feel under threat and you do want them to get out.

You could shoot the floor

away from yourself and ideally get them out of there if you can't get police help.

And in too many communities in America, they're not close to police help.

They really are on their own.

Well, look at what's going on in Washington, D.C.

So Washington, D.C.

is out of control.

Thank God the president has federalized the police.

He's brought in the National Guard.

But not every city has federalized police or National Guard.

And in most places, like you said, you are your own first responder.

You cannot rely on the police getting there in time.

And you need to have something to protect yourself.

And honestly, nobody wants to shoot, you know, a 15-year-old kid, but none of us want to be a victim.

You need to have something that you can use to protect yourself.

And, you know, although I've been an avid gun owner my whole life and I've never,

you know, I've never given up any of my guns, I carry a burner which I can use first.

I still have my Glock 19 in the glove box, but I'm going to try my burner first.

If that doesn't work, if they have a gun, then I'll pull out my lethal firearm, but I'll first go to non-lethal.

Yes, I think a lot of people feel that way, especially given how litigious people are in today's day and age.

I know that 95% of your sales are to consumers, 5% to law enforcement.

You can get a pistol or you can get a rifle and you can get the compact Burna

like I have, but I have the full-size Burna too.

I've got a few of these guns and I have to tell you, I feel a lot safer thanks to Burna.

And that's the reason that I accepted them as advertisers.

We have a lot of advertisers that you're literally like one of the only ones I've ever put on to actually talk about the product because I think it could save lives, Brian.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for your support and for doing this.

Well, thank you very much, Megan.

We really appreciate the platform.

Thank you very much.

All the best.

Okay, so it's Burna, spelled B-Y-R-N-A.

We love our Ys here at the Megan Kelly Show.

Burna, B-Y-R-N-A.com.

Check it out.

I have to tell you, my Burna is the envy of all my neighborhood.

They're all going to order these things because who doesn't want multiple layers of self-defense, right?

It depends.

You never know what's going to happen and you want to be prepared.

Okay, thank you for listening.

We'll talk to you tomorrow.

We're back with Maureen Callahan.

Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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