Dems in Decline, Newsom's Bizarre Trump Troll Attempt, and Truth About DC Crime, with Halperin, Spicer, and Turrentine

Speaker 1 you are a fighter, Modelo is your reward. So listen close.
You are strong, you are fearless, you are a fighter. And every last drop of this rich golden Modelo is yours.

Speaker 1 So raise it up high because you've earned it. Medelo, the mark of a fighter.
Drink responsibly. Dear report of McAlinport, Chicago, Illinois.

Speaker 2 If you're a smoker or dipper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason.

Speaker 4 But with Zen nicotine pouches, you'll discover many good reasons.

Speaker 6 Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand.

Speaker 9 Plus, Zen offers a robust rewards program.

Speaker 7 There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zen.

Speaker 8 Check out Zen.com slash find to find Zin at a store near you.

Speaker 11 Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Speaker 12 Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Speaker 12 Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show and happy Wednesday.

Speaker 12 We've got a great show for you today beginning with the state of American politics with three guys who know it better than most

Speaker 12 because there's something happening in America with the Democratic Party. And for one of our guests who really cares about this, it's pretty alarming.

Speaker 12 Meantime, the most prominent Democrats like Governor Gavin Newsom are behaving in some pretty bizarre ways while they try to fight Donald Trump, drawing the ire of some of their most famous media allies.

Speaker 12 Joining me now to discuss it all, Mark Halperin, host of Next Up on the MK Media Podcast Network, Sean Spicer and Dan Turrentine. Together, they are the hosts of the morning meeting on Tu-Way.

Speaker 12 You know how every home has that one spot that just calls to you all day? For many, it's your bed, your retreat, your recharging zone. Well, I want to tell you about Cozy Earth's bamboo sheets.

Speaker 12 And yes, bubble cuddle blanket. These bamboo sheets are unreal.
They are soft. They're breathable.
They keep you cool all night long. I've been using them all summer.

Speaker 12 They've been in every bed that my children or I have touched, and it's been a dream. You will sleep several degrees cooler, and you will wake up feeling refreshed, and they just get so soft.

Speaker 12 And the bubble cuddle blanket, this thing is like a hug-in-a-blanket form. Faux fur, plush, midway, and cozy.

Speaker 12 There is a reason Cozy Earth gives you a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty because once you try it, you're not going back. Go to cozyearth.com and use my code Megan for up to 40% off.

Speaker 12 That's cozyearth.com, code Megan.

Speaker 12 And if you get the post-purchase survey, be sure to mention you heard about it right here because your bed should not just be a place to sleep, it should be your happy place.

Speaker 12 And Cozy Earth makes that possible.

Speaker 12 Guys, welcome back. Great to see you.

Speaker 13 Thanks for having me.

Speaker 13 Thank you.

Speaker 12 Okay, so there's a lot to go over, but I really kind of want to start with this New York Times piece, Out of Power.

Speaker 12 This hit today by Shane Goldmacher with Jonah Smith and is going on about the voter registration crisis that the Democrats are facing.

Speaker 12 The subhead is: The party is bleeding support beyond the ballot box, according to a new analysis. And the highlights of this thing show as follows.

Speaker 12 While there are still more Democrats registered nationwide by or than Republicans, though they point out that's simply because in states like California, you can register by by party, whereas in a lot of red states, you can't.

Speaker 12 So that's even questionable.

Speaker 12 They say, nonetheless, for the first time since 2018, more new voters nationwide chose to be Republicans than Democrats last year.

Speaker 12 Of the 30 states that track voter registration by political party, Democrats lost ground to Republicans in every single one between 2020 and 2024, and often by a lot.

Speaker 12 That four-year swing toward the Republicans adds up to 4.5 million voters, a deep political hole that could take years for Democrats to climb out from.

Speaker 12 It goes on to say all four presidential battleground states covered by the Times analysis, Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, and Pennsylvania, all of them showed significant Democratic erosion.

Speaker 12 In North Carolina, Republicans erased roughly 95%

Speaker 12 of the registration advantage that Democrats held in the fall of 2020.

Speaker 12 They, quote, Michael Pruser, who tracks voter registration closely as the director of data science for Decision Desk HQ, an election analysis site, quote, I don't want to say the death cycle of the Democratic Party, but there seems to be no end to this.

Speaker 12 There is no silver lining. There is no cavalry coming across the hill.
This is month after month, year after year.

Speaker 12 That's a red alarm for the Democrat Party, five-alarm fire, however you want to put it. And

Speaker 12 to me, it's very interesting because I don't think you can,

Speaker 12 I don't think this is all Trump.

Speaker 12 I, you know, support Donald Trump, but I don't think you can say he did this because the erosion was steady.

Speaker 12 from 2020 to 2024, Mark Halperin, which tells me it's the Democrats that are causing the mass exodus. Your thoughts?

Speaker 13 Well, a little bit of both. I applaud the New York Times for finally writing this piece.
I'm next month going to publish a story about the decline of network television news on the rise of YouTube.

Speaker 13 This has been going on for a long time.

Speaker 13 This is not some breaking news. We were talking about it on Tui last fall because the numbers were there.
I think that it's partly the Democrats woke weakness. It's partly Trump.

Speaker 13 But part of why this happened and why it's continued to happen is the Democrats and their allies in the media live in a blue bubble.

Speaker 13 This alarm should have been pulled, as my joke suggested, years ago because it's been happening right before everybody's eyes.

Speaker 13 But because the press doesn't like to write negative stories about the Democrats, it's only now that they're saying, well, we better confront this because nothing really is being done to address it.

Speaker 13 As the story says, they don't really have a plan to fix it. Part of this is mechanics.

Speaker 13 Allies of President Trump were extremely professional and skillful using technology and blood, sweat, and tears to re-register people, get people registered.

Speaker 13 But part of it is not the mechanics, it's the reality that the Republican brand, partly Trump, has risen with groups that previously were Democratic-leaning groups like younger people, young black men, young Hispanic men.

Speaker 13 But part of it is the Democratic brand, coupled with their lack of the mechanics, has really accelerated a trend that is, as the story says, it's not over.

Speaker 13 And the Democrats currently don't have a circuit breaker.

Speaker 12 The steepest declines, Sean Spicer, have been in registrations among men and younger voters. This doesn't surprise me at all, especially the men.

Speaker 12 And the Democrats know it too now that they're spending $20 million to try to learn how to speak to men.

Speaker 12 They should talk to me. I'm speaking to three men right now.
It's easy. It's very easy if you're just normal.

Speaker 12 But it's no surprise to me.

Speaker 12 And this cannot be easily fixed. Like, oh, we'll get a male nominee or, oh, we'll start swearing more.

Speaker 12 What you need to do, I mean, among other things, is root out DEI at every level in this country because DEI at its heart demonizes men.

Speaker 12 And it leads to men being the fall guy at colleges and schools, K through 12, and men being the last now to get hired for jobs and the least likely to receive any sort of hand up, really

Speaker 12 in any category in America, which is why older men, middle-aged men, young men, teenage men are flocking to the Republican Party.

Speaker 12 I'm just going to show you one thing before I give you the floor. This was on my

Speaker 12 feed last night. It jumped out at me.
It was from, hold on a second, I wrote it down. The university this came from of these young guys.

Speaker 12 Stand by.

Speaker 12 Sigma New Fraternity, University of Missouri. This was from last November, but here is how they began recruiting.

Speaker 12 They're doing it again now because it's recruiting season for fraternities, but this is how they began recruiting one year ago right now.

Speaker 14 You're fired.

Speaker 12 All the guys are dressed like Trump, wearing the red MAGA hat.

Speaker 12 And

Speaker 12 doing the YMCA.

Speaker 12 Sean, that's relief. That's hope.
That's we need Trump because we young men need Trump. I think all that's reflected in these numbers.

Speaker 15 Yeah. I mean, look, if you had told me when I started at the RNC in February of 2011 that we would be in the position now, I wouldn't believe it.

Speaker 15 I mean, from a data standpoint, a voter reg standpoint, to Mark's point, there's two big M's, message and mechanics. They don't have either, and they're suffering massively.

Speaker 15 Voter registration is inherently labor-intensive and expensive. So it's something you got to go out there, get people to either volunteer their time or knock on doors, target people.

Speaker 15 And all of the data that's extrapolated is critical in these

Speaker 15 elections. So you know who to go to, what their voting history is, and everything.
So

Speaker 15 this is the secret sauce of winning elections: having people registered and then having voter history on them. And I'll give you just a handful of examples that you mentioned this.

Speaker 15 In Pennsylvania, Democrats in November of 2024, just a few months ago when the election was held, held a 3.1 voter registration, 286,283 more than Republicans. That is down a point and plus.

Speaker 15 They are now down to an advantage of 174,723, right? You look at North Carolina, another battleground state. Democrats had an advantage of 105,675 voters.

Speaker 15 They are down to 17,377, a critical battleground state Senate race coming up and a governor's race.

Speaker 15 These are going to be impactful in these next, not just the midterms, but in the subsequent presidential elections.

Speaker 15 And Democrats, as I said, have not just a message problem, to your point, about these guys at fraternities and older union workers who don't realize why maybe the union boss still supports the Democratic Party, but for cultural reasons, they've lost working men and women.

Speaker 15 But they also are going to have a mechanical problem that Mark alluded to, and it costs money. The financial advantage of Donald Trump and the RNC right now is just north of $300 million cash on hand.

Speaker 15 And the DNC has 13 million. It's not even a fair fight, and that's the bigger problem.

Speaker 15 They can't even, even if they've come, to your point, if they came up with a message and started drinking beer and talking about, like, they would

Speaker 12 lack the women like Cindy Sweeney in their jeans. Keep going, Sean.

Speaker 15 No, they lack then the resources to implement it.

Speaker 15 So not only do they have a message, they don't have the resources to take care of the mechanical problem that exists, to go out and register these voters.

Speaker 15 They are, this could be the big divide that occurs. The DNC, by the way, and you alluded to this, but this is critical to understand.

Speaker 15 Under Obama, organizing for America, they kind of shunned the DNC aside, built their own political organization, surrounded it around Barack Obama.

Speaker 15 And then when he was gone, you had a shelled-out DNC. Biden really didn't do much to put it back on life support.

Speaker 15 And right now, Ken Martin, yes, they actually have a chair, but he is completely feckless and useless. So you now have a Democratic Party that doesn't have any functioning capabilities.

Speaker 15 The DNC is dead. And this is an unbelievable problem from where I started at the RNC, $25 million in debt, to now an RNC that is dwarfing their rival, the DNC.

Speaker 12 Dan, Maria Cardona, I mean, she's been around forever. I'm sorry, but Maria Cardona, what has she done?

Speaker 12 Hashtag part of the problem. She's quoted in here as saying, we fell asleep at the Switch.
Not it, Maria. No, not it.
The problems were glaring. They were all around you.

Speaker 12 Your party went insane and you encouraged it. You did nothing.
It wasn't like you missed it. You loved it.

Speaker 12 You thought it was actually a winner to go woke and shove these messages down the throats of young people who are sick of being told how to think and talk and young men too.

Speaker 12 And now you're bearing the fruit of your bad labor. They point out in the Times article,

Speaker 12 for years the left has relied on a sprawling network of nonprofits, which solicit donations from people whose identities they need not disclose to register black, Latino, and younger voters.

Speaker 12 The underlying assumption has been most of those new voters would vote Democratic, and then they got burned.

Speaker 12 Cardona says, in today's day and age, I guess you just can't register a young Latino or a young black voter and assume they're going to know that it's Democrats that have the best policies because they're flocking just like the rest of young people to Trump, to team red.

Speaker 12 Your thoughts, Dan.

Speaker 16 Megan, you're absolutely right. I mean, Democrats thought that the Obama coalition, they used to call it the coalition of the ascendant.
And it turns out it's the descendant.

Speaker 16 I mean, we, as Mark mentioned, this has been going on now for years. We talked about this in 2022, 2023, and going into 2024.

Speaker 16 You saw these voter registration gaps narrowing and in some cases, Republicans surpassing. Think about last last October

Speaker 16 as Kamala Harris was slightly behind Trump. What was one of the things Democrats said? We have the ground game.
We do this better than anybody else.

Speaker 16 It's what the party has kind of hung its hat on now going back to 2008. It turns out the Republicans have left so far ahead of us that we now have a serious problem.

Speaker 16 And as you were just alluding, The number of people who would say last year, we knocked on doors in Philadelphia, Atlanta, and said, are you going to vote? The people would say, yes.

Speaker 16 The problem is it wasn't for Kamala Harris. It was for Donald Trump.
And so, you know, as Sean said, it's a message and mechanics. We always talk about this, and I think you do too.

Speaker 16 What issue do Democrats have that's an 80-20 issue for us? Right. Culturally, we remain totally disconnected.
The party does not want to talk about this stuff.

Speaker 16 After the election, everyone was like, we need to make a bunch of changes. But there is still a fear within our leadership that if we start talking about this, they will be canceled.

Speaker 16 Even when you had Rahm Emanuel on, he almost apologized and was like, I have to go to the witness protection program, which tells you how nervous they all remain.

Speaker 16 So I think the party has a lot of problems, and I'm glad it's now being talked about in places like the New York Times, where, as Mark said, in the blue bubble, this might be news.

Speaker 12 Here's what they say, Mark.

Speaker 12 They're talking about the flips in county registrations.

Speaker 12 Bucks County, Pennsylvania, which is one of the prettiest places on earth, man. You want to go someplace nice.

Speaker 12 Go to Bucks County, Pennsylvania in the fall around Halloween, have a glass of wine at the outdoor bar on the main drag there. Go for a little walk on the Erie Canal remnants in the back.

Speaker 12 It's beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

Speaker 12 And historically, split Dem Republican like much of Pennsylvania.

Speaker 12 This tilted Republican in registration for the first time since 2007.

Speaker 12 In the fall, Trump became the first Republican presidential candidate to carry the county this century.

Speaker 12 They talk about what happened in Miami-Dade down in Florida, where the number of active Republican voters zoomed past Democrats months after Trump became the nominee.

Speaker 12 Democrats, as recently as November of 2020, outnumbered the GOP there by 200,000. The margin's totally gone.
It's flipped the other way.

Speaker 12 Statewide in Florida, 1.2 million voters swing flipped from Dem to Republican. According to the Times analysis, North Carolina, they say, could be the next to tip.

Speaker 12 State records show the Democratic edge there down to less than 17,000 voters from 400,000 four years ago. Saying it again, the Dems had a 400,000 voter advantage in North Carolina in 2020.

Speaker 12 It's down to 17,000. And they point out Pennsylvania may be on deck.
That's... Shocking.
I mean, all these states we are very worried out.

Speaker 12 They don't mention Virginia, but like North Carolina, those of us who, you know, want Republicans to win, we're very worried about states like this

Speaker 12 going not just purple and swingy, but full blue, kind of like Virginia did. This is pumping the brakes on some of that, Mark.

Speaker 13 Yeah, look, again, hats off the New York Times. I finally wrote the story.
But think about if the shoe were on the other foot.

Speaker 13 Think about if the four years when Donald Trump was trying to retake the White House, imagine the registration numbers moved the other direction. Okay.

Speaker 13 Well, how would the New York Times have written that story? They'd say, and again, this is not a a red state or blue state or purple state phenomenon. It's coast to coast.

Speaker 13 The New York Times would say, this is a repudiation of Donald Trump, that Americans are voting with their voter registration forms away from Donald Trump's Republican Party.

Speaker 13 What the story doesn't say, and again, as you said in the beginning, it's not all attributable to Donald Trump.

Speaker 13 But on his watch, when he was the unambiguous face of the Republican Party, the trend has been

Speaker 13 uniformly in the other direction.

Speaker 13 And mechanics matter, but part of what Donald Trump has done is built a much more formidable machine than the blue side has in both the government, in the official party apparatus and the allied groups.

Speaker 13 So the Democrats, some of them, I've already talked to some about this story. They're saying, well, this is a Trump phenomenon.
J.D.

Speaker 13 Vance or Marco Rubio are not going to be able to drive the same thing. I'm not so sure because, again,

Speaker 12 it's a complication. It doesn't make sense.
It's a complicated sense.

Speaker 12 Just look at, neither of us is good at math, I assume, because we're all in journalism. We came over here because

Speaker 12 we didn't have to do math. But

Speaker 12 all these numbers where the Democrats were reaching these peaks,

Speaker 12 this 2020. So

Speaker 12 that wasn't about, you know, if that was about Trump, it was negative about Trump.

Speaker 12 The next four years is when they lost everybody, which to me says it was about Biden, Harris, woke Topia, George Floyd, COVID excesses, all of that.

Speaker 13 It's a lot about that.

Speaker 13 But look, what defines Donald Trump's time over the last decade, right, 2015 to 2025, is putting in sharper relief than any Republican or conservative or commentator has done all of the vulnerabilities the Democrats have on those issues, on woke issues, on

Speaker 13 immigration, on trans issues that many people in the country think have gone too far.

Speaker 12 I have to take you on on this.

Speaker 12 I agree with you. Trump is our best.
He's our greatest warrior on woke. I agree.
However,

Speaker 12 I was there. I remember this podcast launched in September of 2020, and we were talking about the COVID excesses, and we were talking about the George Floyd excesses in the EI nonstop.

Speaker 12 Trump was a non-factor other than J6th, which was hanging around Republicans' neck like an albatross. No one wanted to mention the name Donald Trump.

Speaker 12 It was associated with this very, very negative thing that the country hated. For two years, the storyline was not about Trump.

Speaker 12 It was about the Democrats who were literally ruining the country to the point where everyone felt like a boot was on the neck and we were changing fundamentally, which helped lead lead to Trump's resurgence in that very boring launch he did at Mar-a-Lago, where I said I fell asleep and it was true.

Speaker 12 And then Trump got his mojo back bit by bit and remembered who he was. And we remembered what we loved about him and started making the case and Susie Wiles with the discipline and all that.

Speaker 12 But I'm telling you,

Speaker 12 I know, I know in my gut, these numbers are not about Trump. They are about Democrats.

Speaker 13 Well, you're right. For a period, it was not about Trump as much as it was 2015 to 2020.
But again, to me,

Speaker 13 you can't disentangle them because even as he was repudiated and even after January 6th, Trump still put the Democratic Party in that box during his first term. So you're right.

Speaker 13 There's a period where Trump's not the visible face, but the phenomena of the Trump revolution against all this stuff,

Speaker 13 it's 10 years. There's some lower points, and we've seen it accelerate in a lot of these states when Trump came back on the stage.

Speaker 12 But you're right about that period. I disagree with you.

Speaker 12 I think Trump, here's where Trump came in. Trump's brand was very bad in 2020.
It was very bad. And people were not openly wanting to associate with the Republican Party at that point.

Speaker 12 But here's what happened. The Democrats so embarrassed themselves, Dan, that people started to think, what's the alternative? Where do I go?

Speaker 12 And that's when Trump came back and then hit it at just the right time, started saying all the right things in his rally speeches, started like being the big middle finger that he was was first time around, though generally on different issues.

Speaker 12 He wasn't right, we weren't doing like the open woke thing as much from 15 to 20 as we were from 20 thereafter. And then they indicted Trump four times.

Speaker 12 Then they shot Trump once and tried to assassinate him a second time. All those things made it about Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

Speaker 12 And he became super cool and larger than life and made the Republican brand cool for once.

Speaker 12 Some people people say again, I say for once. I don't know if it was ever cool before that.
And that's, so that's where we are today.

Speaker 12 But I just think the Democrats, if they think, okay, Trump's going to leave and we'll be okay again, are completely wrong. They are in for quite an awakening because it's about much more than him.

Speaker 16 Look, I totally agree with you, Megan. And I actually think it could accelerate because

Speaker 16 Trump still has 48.5% of the country that really dislikes him. They dislike his personality, his style.
JD Vance, let's assume that the likelihood that he's the nominee, he

Speaker 16 can talk MAGA with the best of them, but also can present a much more accessible and welcoming personality and family dynamic to voters. So he could end up polling even more people.

Speaker 16 Look, we are culturally disconnected. I think the other part that accelerated the transition is the economy.
Remember, we were dismissive of inflation.

Speaker 12 Then Joe Biden spent

Speaker 16 two years telling everyone, you should be grateful because we're better than the rest of the world. And so I think we drove people away culturally.
We've driven people away economically.

Speaker 16 You know, young black men, Latinos, what did they say in focus groups? We missed Trump's economy. It was better for me under him than Joe Biden.
And so I'm going with Trump. So I think you're right.

Speaker 16 The Democratic Party did its darn best to drive people away. And still today, I would ask anybody, what are we doing to win them back?

Speaker 16 Any turn of momentum we have is usually because Trump makes a mistake or it's a stylistic thing. And I think we'll talk about Gavin Newsome later.

Speaker 16 But there's no meat on the bone for a voter to say, I want to go back with them.

Speaker 15 Because fundamentally, though, here's the problem. The Democratic Party is a patchwork.
of random coalitions. There's no through line.

Speaker 15 It's like if you subscribe to the LGBTQ ABCDEFG, then you're part of our party. Not because, but we're just going to say, yeah, you're in our party.
You have two left hands. You're in our party.

Speaker 15 There's nothing that the party stands for. And when I was talking about young voters a moment ago, you think about union voters are exactly to me the epitome of voters that the Democratic Party lost.

Speaker 15 They used to stand for them and then they started insulting them saying, well, if you go to church, if you have a gun, if you watch these programs, you're not really a good Democrat anymore.

Speaker 15 And so you've alienated people and you don't know.

Speaker 15 The problem for the Democrats is that they can't figure out how to get back because the woke policies, where they're going to the lowest common denominator, standing up for every kid that has one problem and telling the entire classroom that you need to acknowledge that and conform, is losing people.

Speaker 15 There's no bringing them back. And so, until there's a fundamental reckoning in the Democratic Party about what they stand for, they're not going to be able to message them.

Speaker 15 As Dan pointed out, think about the people that are getting

Speaker 15 play on the Democratic side. It's for cheap stunts, memes, some social media stuff, like fleeing to sanctuary political cities, as the case of

Speaker 15 Democrats in Texas, who then came right back, for doing something that every other Democrat has supported in gerrymandering. The point is, they're not for anything.
There is no message.

Speaker 15 And the fundamental point that I made before, there's two problems: message and mechanics, and they've got neither.

Speaker 12 You got it. And here's what the Democrats are doing.
So, we've had going on a year now since Trump's election.

Speaker 12 And they saw the same data that we've been discussing and that we all learned in that election. And this is where we are.

Speaker 12 I'm going to show you how they're handling, for example, in Boston, Trump's crackdown on immigration. Okay,

Speaker 12 this is how they're handling it. It's SAT 29.

Speaker 12 My name is Veronica.

Speaker 12 Bless everybody, roll in your arts.

Speaker 12 It's a mariachi band.

Speaker 15 This is effective.

Speaker 12 There's, of course, a sign language person.

Speaker 12 There's a sign that reads, Dissent is patriotic.

Speaker 12 Oh my God.

Speaker 12 Okay, you get it.

Speaker 12 Sean Spicer,

Speaker 12 is this going to win back the men and the young people? Absolutely.

Speaker 15 Absolutely. If I were the Democrats, I would double down on this.
Just keep doing more of this. This is the secret sauce, folks.
You found it.

Speaker 12 I love it. Roll the R's and sing the song.
I mean, honestly, they are doing more of it. Here, I will, I take you back to Florida, Senate Democrats down there.

Speaker 12 And what they did is they were walking through protesters in SOT 30.

Speaker 12 Gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay. And then here's another one.
My team was ready for this. The rapid response choir in SOT 31.

Speaker 15 You know, Megan, the morning meeting's been testing out some opening songs.

Speaker 15 We might have to hire these guys.

Speaker 12 You need your own rapid response, choir. That one was about Doge.
Hands off Noah.

Speaker 12 I mean, Mark, you've been covering politics for a long time. Is this the way back into the hearts and minds? Young people, men, Latinos? I mean, there was a mariachi band.

Speaker 12 Is that openly racist or is that the way back in with Latinos?

Speaker 13 Well, look, no party can ignore the energized bass. They can't ignore these people's passion.

Speaker 12 For the trill dars.

Speaker 13 For the trill dars and for these issues, even if they're not popular, but they have to fuse that.

Speaker 13 They have to merge that with a more moderate, centrist, mainstream sensibility, which is the only way they're going to win elections. And

Speaker 13 this is a job for a very talented politician. You know, you can talk about demographic trends.
You can talk about issues. You can talk about mechanics.
But you need charismatic leaders who get it.

Speaker 13 You need charismatic leaders who can say, as Donald Trump does, the base of my party is vital to me,

Speaker 13 And part of their problem is they just lack that person. who can bridge that divide.

Speaker 13 And when you don't bridge the divide, what you see, as Dan often points out, is people like Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries, who'd like to bridge the divide, but faced with their limited ability to do it, just go with the base, just empower the base, because those are the loudest, those are the angriest, the most active people in the party.

Speaker 13 And you cannot grow the party if you're just giving in to them. You have to cater to them, make them feel good, make them part of the coalition, but you cannot let them call all the shots.

Speaker 12 And but herein lies the conflict between

Speaker 12 getting back men, Hispanics, young voters, which I firmly believe requires that DEI be absolutely extinguished into

Speaker 12 fairy dust. It must be completely excised from the party.

Speaker 12 And

Speaker 12 this group, you know, that calls themselves the Resistance Choir and goes out there, you know, with their pink pea hats.

Speaker 12 singing the songs about woke issues and so on. I mean, like,

Speaker 12 those are two factions or former factions, at least, of the Democratic base, the Wokesters and then the Hispanics, black voters and young people. And, you know, they've lost Hispanics.

Speaker 12 They've lost young people. They're losing blacks by the day, all of whom I think have recoiled in response to the nonstop woke lessons.
So I don't know. They're in a bit of a pickle.

Speaker 12 But let's talk about generational politicians. Does that include Gavin Newsom? I'll ask you that question first, Mark.

Speaker 13 Is he a generational politician?

Speaker 12 Is he the kind of guy you're talking about who can like like come along and genuinely inspire, you know, like an Obama type who can completely rally these people back into the Dem party?

Speaker 13 Well, he's the closest thing there is right now. And it's interesting.

Speaker 13 He's gone from being dismissed by almost everyone we know to now, I believe, I talked to Patty Salise Doyle, who Democratic operative on Next Up. She and I agree, he's in tier one by himself now.

Speaker 13 Now, he is not as bad as his critics say, but he's not as good as a generational politician who could clearly solve this.

Speaker 13 And I continue to believe his ambivalence about running will play a role here in his decision in the end.

Speaker 13 But he's as good as they have right now, and he's laying down a lot of tracks about the right way to do this. Will he be the person who does it successfully and be the nominee in the end?

Speaker 13 I don't know. But, you know, like I've seen kids, not particularly good soccer players in second grade, but everyone else on the team is really bad.
And so they look fantastic.

Speaker 12 In a very weak field right now, he's a pro.

Speaker 13 He's the governor of one of every seven Americans. He's been on the national stage a long time.
He knows a lot of people throughout the country.

Speaker 13 He's doing stuff now that others can't do. And that makes him right now, again, in a class by himself.

Speaker 13 I don't think he'll be the nominee in the end necessarily, but I do think every other person who'd like to be a leader of the party in the context of running for president in 28 have to ask themselves if they can do anything like what Gavin Newsom is doing now in standing up to Donald Trump.

Speaker 13 And I don't believe most of them would have a clue about how to do it.

Speaker 12 Okay, so Gavin Newsom has decided to hire two young whippersnapper press people who look a lot like the Corrine Jean-Pierre press pool, like the people she was using in her press office who look like these, you know, weird hats and strange haircuts and like the Rainbow Coalition.

Speaker 12 So he's hired two of those folks to write his tweets. And here's an example of where it's going.

Speaker 12 It's all, it's turned in, his entire tweet feed has turned into imitations of what might be a Trump tweet. For example, wow, in all caps, wow, what an honor on Mount Rushmore.

Speaker 12 Thank you, dash GCN, with an image of Newsom on Mount Rushmore.

Speaker 12 Then there's a poster image of Kid Rock pointing like Uncle Sam. It reads, Kid Rock wants you to support Gavin Newsom.
Captioned on X, I accept dash GCN.

Speaker 12 Kid Rock, by the way, replied, saying the only support Gavin Newscomb will ever get out of me is from D's nuts.

Speaker 12 Here's another one.

Speaker 12 He

Speaker 12 Scott Pressler, who registered, speaking of Republican registrations, who basically turned Pennsylvania red with his voter registration efforts or got very, very close.

Speaker 12 He posted a video about it and Gavin Newsom's office responded saying, thank you, Nancy Mace.

Speaker 12 Calling Scott Pressler Nancy Mace. Scott Pressler has very, very long hair.
Nancy Mace doesn't, so I don't know. It doesn't really work for me.
And then

Speaker 12 somebody on Fox responded saying, you're kidding me, right?

Speaker 12 You're constantly raving about protecting gay people, and now you use your official press office to troll a gay conservative and call him a woman.

Speaker 12 In response to which the press office replied, you sound woke. All right, here's another one.

Speaker 12 Not even, this is all caps, not even JD just dance vance can save Trump from the disastrous maps war he has started. Not even his eyeliner lines look as pretty as California map lines.

Speaker 12 He will fail, as he always does. Sad.
And I, the peacetime governor, our nation's favorite, will save America once again.

Speaker 12 Many are now calling me Gavin Christopher Columbus Newsom because of the maps exclamation point. Thank you for your attention to this matter, GCN.

Speaker 12 This has led to a split amongst some on whether this is an effective strategy.

Speaker 12 Joe Scarborough, not a fan. Gonna give you a little sampling of that.

Speaker 12 27B.

Speaker 22 The Democrats are trying to

Speaker 22 find their footing, and it's quite embarrassing, actually. I mean, Gavin knew some.
I mean, have you seen what he's doing online? And it's like,

Speaker 3 just take a deep breath.

Speaker 22 Don't try to turn the ship 180 degrees.

Speaker 22 They don't know what to do.

Speaker 23 I have a good idea.

Speaker 22 Instead of trying to

Speaker 22 make school Donald Trump, talk into the camera about affordability. Donald Trump's not on

Speaker 22 the ballot in 26. He's not on the ballot in 28.

Speaker 19 So why are you going, I'm going after Donald?

Speaker 12 No,

Speaker 19 you're not running against Donald Trump.

Speaker 12 Dan, thoughts?

Speaker 16 I don't often disagree with Joe Scarborough, but on this I do, because one, I think you will be running against Donald Trump until January 20th, 2029.

Speaker 16 Like whether you like it or not, Trump is the sun that everything orients around. I actually think this is really smart.

Speaker 16 I think what Newsom is doing is filling a leadership void in the party that desperately wants somebody to take on Trump. And look, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Speaker 16 If you just look at Gravin Newsom's following on X, Instagram, and TikTok. He is rapidly accumulating followers and retweets.
He is filling people's feed.

Speaker 16 I see people who are like, I'll call it super depressed progressives, like in my own family, who think Gavin Newton's the greatest thing ever right now. And so, look, what he lacks is substance.

Speaker 16 At some point, he'll have to put an agenda together. But for right now, he is like, he is energizing Democrats.
And Mark said this before.

Speaker 16 When Chuck Schumer wants to say something, he either says it in the well of the United States Senate over 20 minutes in dry, serious tones, or he puts out a press release on X, literally a photograph of a press release, and Democrats yawn and pull their hair out.

Speaker 16 What Gavin Newsom is doing is lighting a fire. I think it's great.
In the long run, it's not enough to obviously win a presidential, but I agree with Mark. He's in the top tier.

Speaker 16 Now, we disagree a little. I think AOC is in there with him, but it's working for Gavin Newsom in a primary.

Speaker 12 You're not the only one who feels that. Here's CNN's Harry Enton, the data guru over there in SOT 27.

Speaker 26 I think it absolutely has been working in terms of generating attention, which is what he's trying to do, right? I mean, take a look here.

Speaker 26 Let's take a look right at the at GovPress Office Followers on X. That's, of course, where you get those sort of the account where Newsom posts those Trump-style mocking types of tweets.

Speaker 26 Look at where we were on June 1st. We basically had a clown car, a clown car for first.
Newsom, AOC, Buddha Judge, 11%, 10%, 8%.

Speaker 27 But look at where we are now.

Speaker 26 Look at this. Look who's jumped up all the way up to 24% chance, about a one-in-four chance of getting the nomination.
Gavin Newsom. AOC staying pretty steady at 13%.

Speaker 26 And then, of course, we have Pete Buttajudge, who has stayed absolutely steady at 8%. So at least at this particular point, the prediction markets are saying, yes, yes, this strategy is paying off.

Speaker 26 Of course, the key question is, will this actually work when you're trying to actually, votes are being cast and counted?

Speaker 12 Sean, thoughts?

Speaker 17 Look, I agree with both of them.

Speaker 15 It's a pretty pathetic field when Gavin Newsom is considered the only tier one candidate. That says a lot about the other folks that you're running against.

Speaker 15 I mean, so you combine everything, the message, the mechanics, the candidates, the current leadership. They are in a world of hurt right now.
I get Newsome's strategy. I mean, look, he gets credit.

Speaker 15 It's sort of like when you get, I used to call them circle 60s when I was in high school. It meant you got an F, but we're going to give you a circle 60, which allowed you to pass the course.

Speaker 15 And I think he's getting a circle 60.

Speaker 12 We're learning a lot about Sean today.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 15 You might want to look at those transcripts.

Speaker 15 But he's getting a circle 60. And what do I mean by that? I give him, this is the, the teacher would say to me, okay, you came to class, you tried, you just failed the test.

Speaker 15 So I'm going to give you credit for showing up and participating.

Speaker 15 And I give credit to him for participating. He's out there.
He's trying to do it. But the fundamental thing that's so interesting in his strategy is this.

Speaker 15 Most Democrats find Trump's tactics abhorrent. So if you find the tactics abhorrent and then your goal is to emulate them, it's sort of like,

Speaker 15 I just, I think he may get plaudits from a lot of the DC insider Beltway pundit class and reporters, but I have a hard time believing that people who are going to go to a caucus in Iowa or Nevada are going to find this enjoyable.

Speaker 13 Or they're going to be a good idea.

Speaker 12 But I mean, I think he's mocking it. Like he's not actually embracing it like this.
No, no, I don't.

Speaker 15 Right, I get it.

Speaker 15 But I just think that if you don't like the behavior in the first place, somebody who's then doing it, I get why he's doing it to troll him, but I think that it's hard to say, oh, what Trump's doing is so wrong.

Speaker 15 I'm just going to do it back at him.

Speaker 13 Except there's one other difference besides the fact that it's meant to be performance art rather than whatever it is the president Trump does. He's only targeting the president.

Speaker 13 He's not making fun of other people so far.

Speaker 12 Well, he made fun of Scott Kressler.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 13 And J.D.

Speaker 12 Mass. Yeah.

Speaker 13 Sorry, to be clear, he's making fun of Republican politicians. He's not going after other entities.

Speaker 12 Now, maybe he will, but the meeting is not.

Speaker 13 He's a combatant.

Speaker 13 He's on the field. He's a combatant.
So I'm just saying,

Speaker 13 the Democrats like the fact that it's mockery of people who are.

Speaker 12 I don't know. I think you're splitting hairs there, Halper.
And that's who Trump goes after.

Speaker 12 He's not picking random private citizens to attack. He attacked people who attack him.
He went after Taylor Swift because Taylor Swift endorsed Kamala Harris and Tim Wallace.

Speaker 12 He wasn't picking on her for no reason.

Speaker 13 But those aren't political pros.

Speaker 13 I'm just telling you what some Democrats split.

Speaker 13 I think what some Democrats don't like is he's spraying the whole country, anybody who

Speaker 13 wants to attack, rather than political combatants. I'm just saying, to me,

Speaker 13 that's why some Democrats can justify it.

Speaker 12 But Megan,

Speaker 16 I wouldn't underestimate of all the candidates we've talked about in 2028. Who else has drawn fire from Stephen Chung and all these different people in the White House? They're taking the bait.

Speaker 16 They're elevating Newsome to an equal that we feel like when you speak, we need to go after you.

Speaker 12 And if you're Newsome now, Trump does that with everyone.

Speaker 16 Well, sure, but you think about it this way now. Democrats are going to be asked, you with Newsom or Trump?

Speaker 16 That is the dynamic Trump used in 2023 when he was getting arrested and all this stuff. You with me or are you with Nancy Pelosi and, you know, Joe Biden? So it is elevating Newsom.

Speaker 16 Again, you got to win the primary to get to the general. It's smart.
He's separating himself.

Speaker 12 Back here to Joe Scarborough in 29A.

Speaker 19 Blake, you're trying to do everything to distract the American people from the fact that you're screwing up on job one.

Speaker 19 And job one is helping working Americans and helping the middle class afford their lives and build a life where their children are going to live better than them. That's the American dream.

Speaker 19 And you have done nothing but play politics over the past year and a half.

Speaker 12 It's really not that hard to do.

Speaker 19 We'll see. Trend.

Speaker 19 Cut and paste. It's really not hard to do.
Gavin Newsom, he wants to own Donald Trump. He wants to be Donald Trump.
Like you can't be Donald Trump light.

Speaker 19 Hey, Gavin, talk into the camera and talk about making life more affordable, not only for people in California, but if you want to talk about people in New Hampshire, our people in Iowa, our people in South Carolina, they would like to know how their lives can be more affordable, not how you can own Donald Trump.

Speaker 19 Donald Trump is not running again.

Speaker 12 I don't know.

Speaker 12 I'm kind of against Scarborough and in favor of Gavin Newsom's plan here.

Speaker 12 I don't want to see Gavin Newsome become president, but he is generating more attention for himself than we've seen from any other candidate and that we've than we've seen for him.

Speaker 12 And like the same old, like once you get the eyes on you, then you can start talking about what's happening to people in New Hampshire, Sean. But like, you need to get the eyes on you first.

Speaker 15 Yeah, I will say I've now, in the last 25 minutes, watched more MSNBC than I have in the last five years.

Speaker 12 I think you mean MS Now.

Speaker 15 Oh, my apologies. My apologies.
I didn't acknowledge that brilliant branding strategy.

Speaker 15 So

Speaker 15 the thing that I find that I kind of disagree with is at some point, people, you know, Scarborough's got a point here, which is there's got to be some sort of plan about making life better.

Speaker 15 And that's where I think that there's a fundamental problem here with all these Democrats. What are they for?

Speaker 15 They've criticized his crackdown on crime, his crackdown on the border, his crackdown on trade,

Speaker 15 billions of dollars of new revenue coming into the federal government through tariffs, which most of them previously supported.

Speaker 15 They've criticized him on gerrymandering, which they led the way on in Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, etc.

Speaker 13 Being too mean to Europeans.

Speaker 15 Yeah, which now we've got a NATO that's paying, theoretically, 5% of their GDP, which is not true. But the bottom line is he got NATO to ante up.

Speaker 15 Mark Root, the Secretary General, said the other night Trump was right in his criticism and he has achieved results. The bottom line is

Speaker 15 name something that they're for. Name one thing they're for.
And abortion is zero. Oh, yeah, abortion and LGBTQIA.

Speaker 12 Here's our friend Mark Halperin sitting down with Joe Scarborough and getting into some of these issues on his MK Media show, Next Up, SOT 29B now.

Speaker 13 What about people thinking of running for president? Should they be a Democrat? Should they be talking about Trump or should they similarly move on and talk about Democrats?

Speaker 22 No, no, again, because Trump is so baked into the cake. Again, it's like the Iraq war.

Speaker 22 You just, nobody's going to change their mind about Donald Trump. And we keep thinking

Speaker 22 this is going to happen and this will,

Speaker 22 this is when the walls are closing in on Donald Trump. Something I've probably said 87 times.

Speaker 13 No.

Speaker 22 no, the walls aren't going to close in on Donald Trump. And that's not your concern.
Your concern is getting elected to Congress. Your concern is winning the House of Representatives.

Speaker 17 Your concern is taking over the committees and by doing so, being able to stop a lot of what Republicans are doing.

Speaker 12 Okay, I'll let you take it, Mark, but I've got to say the irony, like the gall of Scarborough, of all people to say you can't change people's minds on Donald Trump.

Speaker 12 Like he is the living Sybil when it comes to Donald Trump. Nobody kissed Trump's ass more.
Nobody, including Hannity, in 2016. I know I was there.

Speaker 12 And then when he found out he wasn't going to be vice president or be brought along for the ride, he completely turned on Trump, he and his bride, Mika, and spent the next eight years bashing him to hell.

Speaker 12 And then when Trump wrested power back from everyone in the country, he went and bent the knee and kissed the ring at Mar-a-Lago. So please, okay, sorry.
He was your guest.

Speaker 12 So you're not in the same mind space as yours, truly. But what it's basically the same point he's making there, no, that like focus on the issues.
Don't get too wrapped up in the Donald Trump thing.

Speaker 12 You're not going to move minds or hearts by making your potential race or come back as a Dem about him.

Speaker 13 Well, a few things. Besides Joe being my guest, he's my friend.
And I've resolved not to step between the two of you. So I'll pass on

Speaker 13 some of those characterizations. But I'll say this.
Joe is a big believer in thinking a new about Trump.

Speaker 13 Maybe not in the exact way you described it, but he's come to appreciate how formidable Trump is as a political force.

Speaker 13 And I think what his main point is, is that if you try just to do what Gavin Newsom is doing without talking to voters about the real lives, improving their real lives, you will just, you will be caught up in the centrifugal force and you won't have a path to being president of the United States or leading a coalition into a majority.

Speaker 13 So you can't ignore Trump. As Dan said,

Speaker 13 he's going to be the dominant force in our politics through the election. But I think if you listen to my conversation with Joe, he's advocating not being,

Speaker 13 letting your biorhythms, your daily political biorhythms be about trying to beat Donald Trump at his own game.

Speaker 13 Because Gavin Newsom's not going to do that, and he's the best equipped of anyone in the party to try to do it.

Speaker 12 Or, Dan, the Dems could go with this. Watch.
My name is Laronica.

Speaker 29 Yeah.

Speaker 12 We needed to see it again.

Speaker 12 Look at the signer.

Speaker 12 Okay, you get it. You get it.
You get my point. The signer's trying to sign.

Speaker 12 It's so on brand for the Dems.

Speaker 12 we got to get the sign language lady so she can sign the trilled are you got to get the mariachi banned if republicans brought a mariachi banned at an anti-illegal immigration rally this is all about immigration they'd be getting called racists up and down the dial but it's fine because it's michelle wu the boston mayor who's woke

Speaker 12 yeah i think i'd pull a muscle if i tried to hit a high note that that that high uh doing that i look i i the party is not cool that's my point dan the party is uncool.

Speaker 12 And I guess Gavin Newsom is making an attempt to put an end to that by trying to act like Donald Trump and like he's not afraid of the big bad bully, which makes him somewhat cool, or so he hopes.

Speaker 16 Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, look, go back to Bill Clinton's famous line, strong and wrong beats weak and right.
Like there is a performative side to being president, to being a leader.

Speaker 16 You do have to show that you're not afraid, that you're willing to throw a punch and take a punch and keep going.

Speaker 16 You also need to inspire people with, as Mark said, an agenda that focuses on the real lives of real people.

Speaker 16 I think one of the big things that Democrats constantly refuse to acknowledge is that Trump's rise was fueled on his agenda, being against the wars, being trying to change trade.

Speaker 16 being against the open borders of immigration, which, you know, as Sean was there, the RNC's famous autopsy after 13 was that the party needed to be more hospitable to loosening immigration laws.

Speaker 16 So Trump got people behind him on policy, on a bold agenda. So ultimately, we've got to go there.
But you can have the greatest agenda on earth. But if you're a wimp,

Speaker 16 if you're afraid of J.D. Vance, afraid of the online world, you're not going to go anywhere.

Speaker 16 So, I mean, again, this is a baby step for the party with what Gavin Newsom is doing, but ultimately, it's definitely not enough to become president.

Speaker 12 Yeah, to me, it feels more like an audition

Speaker 12 than an actual like campaign. It's an audition to be considered for the campaign.
That's how I read it. In any event, okay, more with Mark, Dan, and Sean coming up.

Speaker 12 Why did Abby Phillip over on CNN explicitly attack two of her guests this week? We'll show you what she did.

Speaker 12 I've been talking a lot lately about Riverbend Ranch, and that's because I love their stakes. Riverbend Ranch has taken black Angus beef to a whole new level.

Speaker 12 For the last 35 years, Riverbend Ranch has been creating a very elite Angus herd by using ultrasound to select genetically superior cattle with a focus on flavor and tenderness.

Speaker 12 When you buy from Riverbend Ranch, you are not only supporting the 64 cowboys and cowgirls and their families who work on the ranch, but you're also supporting over 260 other U.S.

Speaker 12 ranches and the hundreds of American families who work on those ranches. It is born in the USA, raised in the USA, and processed in the USA.

Speaker 12 It is aged to perfection for 21 days and shipped directly from the ranch to your home. This is not your average black Angus beef.

Speaker 12 So order from Riverbend Ranch.com and use the promo code Megan for 20 bucks off your first order. And let me know what you think.
Riverbend Ranch.com promo code Megan.

Speaker 1 If you are a fighter, Modelo is your reward. So listen close.
You are strong. You are fearless.
You are a fighter. And every last drop of this rich golden Modelo is yours.

Speaker 1 So raise it up high because you've earned it. Modelo, the mark of a fighter.
Drink responsibly at the airport at Garland Port, Chicago, Illinois.

Speaker 2 If you're a smoker or dipper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason.

Speaker 4 But with Zen nicotine pouches, you'll discover many good reasons.

Speaker 6 Zen is America's number one nicotine pouch brand.

Speaker 9 Plus, Zen offers a robust rewards program.

Speaker 7 There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zen.

Speaker 8 Check out Zen.com/slash find to find Zen at a store near you.

Speaker 11 Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Speaker 12 Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show. Back with you now, Mark Halperin, host of Next Up with Mark Halperin, Sean Spicer, and Dan Turntine.
Sorry for the changing pronunciations of your last name, Dan.

Speaker 12 It's time, time, like

Speaker 12 time,

Speaker 12 right?

Speaker 16 Yes, yes, that's okay. No, all my life.

Speaker 12 I know, I'm sure. That's like my name, too.
I get the Megan, I got the Megan, I got the Megan.

Speaker 12 I don't know how to pronounce it, so it's fine.

Speaker 12 Okay, I do want to talk about an extraordinary thing that's going on. It's related to this whole Smithsonian crackdown that Trump is doing, which I totally applaud.

Speaker 12 Having taken my family through DC, we went through some of the museums in April of 2023. I thought it was ridiculous how much focus there was on all the worst chapters of America.

Speaker 12 And by the way, at that time, they were still doing the

Speaker 12 online. There was a digital trigger warning for the founding documents.
Like you might be triggered if you read the Constitution. I mean, we've really truly lost our minds for the last five years.

Speaker 12 And it's evident as you walk around these museums. So Trump is trying to stop this.

Speaker 12 He's not saying, get rid of everything related to slavery, like the left is claiming.

Speaker 12 He's just saying, why does the focus have to be so much on all our darkest chapters, as opposed to communicating what an extraordinary and special nation this is, which, yes, has not always gotten it right, not by a long shot.

Speaker 12 He's talking about focus and emphasis, but you wouldn't know that to listen to his critics. So Abby Phillip has this, I mean, literally, nobody's watching that show.

Speaker 12 I think it's just us four, just for just pulling clips. We pulled the ratings.
They are dreadful. My God, they're so bad.
All of CNN is going away.

Speaker 12 Trust me, I looked at the numbers today. But in any event, she's there hanging on like the rest of them.

Speaker 12 And the only thing that's good about her show is sometimes she puts on Scott Jennings and it's fun to watch him fight.

Speaker 12 And then she had Jillian Michaels on the other day and Jillian Michaels raised this issue about the Smithsonian.

Speaker 12 Well, what does Abby Phillip do? She decides to go on an even more terrible person's podcast, Kara Swisher.

Speaker 12 And she decides to shit all over her guests when speaking to Kara Swisher. These are the people who make the show tolerable for some small faction of Republicans.

Speaker 12 And she decides to take a massive dump on both of them.

Speaker 12 Let's see. I'll give you,

Speaker 12 let's just do what she said about Jillian Michaels first, thought four.

Speaker 21 And then when it became clear that she was trying to sort of downplay slavery, I was just like shocked.

Speaker 21 Like, are you really going to do this on national television, giving her an opportunity to not do it? But she continued on.

Speaker 21 And then later on, she said that she got this list of talking points from the White House about exhibits that they wanted to dispute. And frankly,

Speaker 12 it was pretty ignorant.

Speaker 21 Look, I don't like to talk about negatively about guests who come on the show because I just don't think that's good form.

Speaker 21 Even when I disagree with people, I respect them

Speaker 21 to embarrass themselves on national television. I think it is their right to do that.

Speaker 12 There we go. So I don't like to talk negatively about them, but she was ignorant and she embarrassed herself.
And that is her right.

Speaker 12 So it's not exactly the most, I've never seen Mark Calpern do this after somebody swings by next stop or two-way

Speaker 13 i i learned that from david brinkley you don't speak ill of your guests after they leave and certainly not after they've been nice enough to give you some of their time

Speaker 12 so she did and she took a shot at jillian and then she took a shot at scott phillips sorry uh scott who makes this show worth watching trying to find the sound bite in which she goes after him, Scott Jennings.

Speaker 12 It's SOP5.

Speaker 21 Never bringing people on on to say crazy things. Let's be frank about that.
That is never the intention, okay? People's decisions to say crazy things are never expected or predictable.

Speaker 21 However, I mean, and I know that folks really dislike Scott for his views.

Speaker 21 But I would say that,

Speaker 12 you know,

Speaker 21 there are views that you don't like, that you think are unfounded, but that are pretty widely shared. And I think Scott falls into that category.

Speaker 21 Now, there are definitely times, if you watch the show,

Speaker 21 that we have conversations where I will say to Scott and others, just stop because we're not playing whatever game it is that you want to play in this moment.

Speaker 12 Got it, Sean.

Speaker 12 So she needs to apologize for Scott Jennings because she's heard, CNN's audience is overwhelmingly left, that people don't like him and he says crazy things and you know he's such a lunatic It's worthwhile airing those views because they belong to MAGA Yeah, by the way, I mean the only time that anyone talks about CNN now but that that is as close to watching CNN as I come though So now I've got MSNBC and is nuffed up CNN as I mean

Speaker 17 it's gonna take forever for me to

Speaker 15 I bet you that by the time I get that logo right,

Speaker 15 that they will be out of business anyway. So that's actually

Speaker 15 the only reason that people talk about CNN now is because of usually something that Scott Jennings has actually said. So their relevance is actually pretty much tied to Scott Jennings going on shows.

Speaker 15 That being said, I find it interesting how she described that. People don't like Scott because of...
his views. Well, I'm sorry.

Speaker 15 That's a very myopic look at the world, meaning basically all the people that we have come on my show or my network at CNN are people who agree with me that think that everything in MAGA is horrible.

Speaker 15 I just, I've watching CNN implode is amazing. You would think that after they got rid of everyone like Jim Acosta, they fired Brian Stelter once, that they would at least sort of learn their lesson.

Speaker 15 Instead, they bring Brian back and double down on stupid.

Speaker 12 It's so bad. Let me just give you a little taste of how she's doing.
At 10 p.m.,

Speaker 12 this is just the other night on Tuesday, at 10 p.m., Greg Guttfeld in the key demo that they use to get advertisers pulled in

Speaker 12 a three, which is 327,000, which is not bad at 10 p.m.

Speaker 12 Abby Phillip,

Speaker 12 91,000. She did not even break 100,000.

Speaker 12 You guys don't understand. You know how bad this is? This is so dreadful.
You cannot stay in business like this. This is the prime time.
The prime time demo did not break 100,000.

Speaker 12 Thanks to Abby Phillip, who went down from her almost equally crappy lead-in at nine, which was 112.

Speaker 12 Anderson Cooper had 86,000 versus Jesse Waters 290.

Speaker 12 7 p.m., Laura Ingram gets 264. The 7 p.m.
on CNN gets 76. Brett Baer gets 226.
Jake Tapper, 73. The 5, which is the number one rated show on TV, gets 332.
Jake Tapper gets 85.

Speaker 12 These numbers are just absolutely dreadful. And by the way, Abby Phillip is in last place.
She's also losing to MSNBC. You cannot, you cannot stay employed.

Speaker 12 And I guarantee you, she's making millions of dollars, millions of dollars for putting no points on the board because that's how cable news operates for now.

Speaker 12 But as Mark pointed out in the beginning of the show, News Flash,

Speaker 12 cable news and TV news is on a bit of an iceberg, or I guess a bit of a ship about to hit an iceberg. YouTube is where it's at.

Speaker 12 And so she's on a sinking ship. But in any event, the solution, Dan, is not to then start ripping the two guests you've had on who've said things that conservatives agree with.

Speaker 16 I mean, Megan, what were we talking about to start this show? The decline of Democratic voter registration advantages and the struggles of the Democratic Party.

Speaker 16 And now you have a host on a channel watched by a lot of Democrats.

Speaker 16 in which you're saying that the primary guest in Scott Jennings, who represents 50% of this country, that I have to shut him down often because his views are so unacceptable or not mainstream in her telling, right?

Speaker 16 This is the feedback loop. This is the, you know, they're crazy, they're wrong, we're right, all they say is lies, and we're always right.

Speaker 16 And, you know, I look at Donald Trump, RFK, Tulsi, Gabbard, like this big tent. They have a lot of kind of, it's a raucous coalition.
We are increasingly getting narrow.

Speaker 16 And even in our media filters, there is still this kind of Trump derangement syndrome of focusing on the man, on process, on right versus wrong, instead of kind of welcoming the big debate.

Speaker 16 We're not going to get better until we open up.

Speaker 13 These places don't have a business model, in part because I guarantee you, none of these anchors' numbers are going to get better. They're just not.

Speaker 13 The audience has spoken, as our friend Britt Hume would say, sometimes the dog won't eat the dog food. And they don't seem inclined to make any changes.
And their identities are up in the air.

Speaker 13 Whether you're talking about MS Now, see, I did it, or CNN.

Speaker 13 They pay lip service to the notion: no, we don't want to just appeal to the left. We don't want to be biased.

Speaker 13 We want to appeal to all potential customers. But then, if you look at their coverage from Friday till Monday of President Trump's efforts to try to get a peace deal, it's as hostile and as

Speaker 13 myopically deranged as any coverage of Trump I've seen ever.

Speaker 13 It's just mocking him,

Speaker 13 accusing him of just being in it for a Nobel Peace Prize, of dividing Europe, of saying the Europeans had to come to keep him from making a deal. He can't make a deal without Europe and Zelensky.

Speaker 13 It's all just made up.

Speaker 13 So, you know, I want strong news organizations, but these places are going with prime time anchors in particular, who simply do not have an interest in bigger numbers, because if they did, they would recognize that they're turning off more than half the country.

Speaker 13 And with Scott, Scott is the best thing to have. I'd like to see her and Abby Abby Phelps numbers with Abby Phelps numbers without Scott, because

Speaker 13 anyone I know who watches the show is watching for Scott.

Speaker 12 Exactly right. They like the conflict at a minimum.
And what does she do? She goes out and dumps on him. That's the thanks he gets.

Speaker 12 She was one of the worst going out there and saying, oh, the Europeans rushed to the White House out of 9, 11 level concerns about Trump. Wrong.
That's her bias.

Speaker 12 And then back to, again, speaking about what we did in the first hour.

Speaker 12 So this is what she does after Jillian Michaels reflects some of those concerns about, you know, that Trump and Team Trump have about the Smithsonian and the museums. Like, what are we doing?

Speaker 12 Why are we like, America's all about slavery? That's the only thing we've ever done. That's what defines us.
Not the liberation of Europe and the

Speaker 12 saving the free world.

Speaker 12 Not the defeat of communism in the 1980s. No, it's all about slavery.
We've never been able to get past it. We're still just as racist as we were.

Speaker 12 She decides the other day to go out there and open up her show with this

Speaker 12 SAT one.

Speaker 21 Last week on this show, a guest shocked the table by arguing in part that slavery in America can't just be blamed on one race and that museums put too much focus on the role of white people who participated in that terrible institution.

Speaker 21 And now tonight, that same argument is being pushed by the President of the United States.

Speaker 21 Donald Trump says that one of the reasons for his crackdown on Smithsonian museums is: quote, everything discussed is how bad slavery was. It's important to say objectively, slavery was indeed bad.

Speaker 21 It was evil. And it is impossible to understand the true history of this country

Speaker 21 without fully grappling with slavery's impact. There were many of the white Americans who did not personally own slaves.

Speaker 21 They benefited from a caste system that concentrated wealth and political power in their hands.

Speaker 21 When we acknowledge the existence of black people who operated George Washington's Mount Vernon or the black hands that built the White House, we are acknowledging the existence, the perseverance, and the contributions of the souls that white supremacy sought to erase.

Speaker 21 And I share this not as a lecture for you, but as a lesson.

Speaker 12 Really?

Speaker 12 Okay.

Speaker 12 It's a miracle she has 91,000, Sean. A miracle.

Speaker 15 I mean, look, there's a few things there.

Speaker 15 One, I would just say with respect to Scott Jennings, whether it's Scott Jennings or Jillian Michaels, when you go out and do that to a guest, to Mark's point about David Brinkley's lesson, they're never coming back again.

Speaker 15 And as a 53-year-old man, I would have no way,

Speaker 15 I rarely stay up till 10 o'clock. So the idea that Scott Jennings is going to want to stay up and go on that show again is nuts, right?

Speaker 15 They're going to alienate guests because it's hard enough as an older guy to stay up that late. But the bigger and broader point that I think is sort of,

Speaker 15 you know, from the Trump going after the Smithsonian to the Kennedy Center is a huge contrast from Trump 1.0 to 2.0. And it's this.
The first term, we largely set aside culture, if you will.

Speaker 15 Trump said, I'm just not going to go to the Kennedy Center. I'm not going to be involved in the Kennedy Center honors.
We're not going to like deal with higher education.

Speaker 15 We'll just focus on some of these policy agendas. They didn't yield the field in Trump 2.0.
They're basically saying, as Andrew Reipart did so correctly, politics is downstream from culture.

Speaker 15 And therefore, if we really want to make change, we need to attack the culture in our country and their pervasiveness of the woke DEI culture that has grown, especially in the last four years.

Speaker 15 They're taking on the Kennedy Center. They're taking on higher education.
They're taking on the Smithsonians, right?

Speaker 15 They are actually understanding how much more powerful they can be this time, taking on corporations.

Speaker 15 But the bottom line is this administration, Trump 2.0, is vastly different than 1.0, where he did a lot of great things.

Speaker 15 And I'm not, I think this time he understands the power and levers of government in a way that he didn't in Trump 1. And frankly, has a team around him that's willing to take on that

Speaker 15 culture war that we didn't in the first term. And so bravo to them for doing doing this, because this is where real change will occur.

Speaker 12 What she doesn't realize is the country is with Trump on this.

Speaker 12 There's very few people who aren't far-left woke Democrats who want to walk into the Smithsonian museums throughout Washington and just be reminded of our darkest chapters.

Speaker 12 Just bring back the absolute worst things we did over and over and over, as opposed to celebrate the rich cultural history of America and its achievements. So what does she do?

Speaker 12 She puts on her school mom outfit with like the

Speaker 12 ruffles in her, like the monochromatic red outfit with the silk ruffles coming down, George Washington style, you could argue. Looks like the karate or whatever the thing is that they used to wear.

Speaker 12 With her little... you know, red jacket and sits on the three-quarter chair, the stool

Speaker 12 in front of the screen and indeed lectures to us, complete with graphics,

Speaker 12 explaining to us that there was this thing called slavery and it was bad. And here's why it was bad.
And here's how all the white people benefit. This is absolutely fucking absurd.

Speaker 12 Literally, nobody is challenging that we had slavery and that it's bad. It's all about focus, which I don't know her.
She may be dumb. I was going to say she's too smart to not understand that.

Speaker 12 This is probably very dishonest, but she might be dumb. So I'm actually not going to give her that the benefit of that doubt.
It's absurd.

Speaker 12 We got to switch gears because there's breaking news right now. At Union Union Station, the Washington, D.C.

Speaker 12 train station, where Trump and his team are in the middle of trying to clean up the homeless problem there, trying to clean up homeless problems on the streets of Washington, trying to stop crime with the National Guard and others.

Speaker 12 It's working, by the way.

Speaker 12 And now, some protesters, remember last week we played the video of the protester, the one white lady who was going to hand out the plastic neon-colored whistles for the homeless to blow if somebody tried to remove them.

Speaker 12 Wait. It's like, well, who's coming? Who's going to come and get you?

Speaker 12 Literally, like, is there a brigade of people waiting to rescue the homeless? If so, where have they been?

Speaker 12 Why are they just waiting until the National Guard approaches them and for them to blow their whistles? Like, do something today. Don't wait until the whistle incident, white lady.

Speaker 12 But here is what's happening there. First, let me just give you a feel for what the protests look like.
And you're about to see Stephen Miller and the vice president watch.

Speaker 12 RPC to Mexico.

Speaker 12 All right, that's it.

Speaker 12 Give him a B plus on the rhyming.

Speaker 12 The catchiness, it needs work. It's not like a jingle that stays in your head.

Speaker 12 Here is Stephen Miller, who showed up and did not mince words.

Speaker 30 There are homeless encampments that have made it impossible for families to use public parks and public recreation for as long as I've lived here.

Speaker 30 There are hundreds of residents of this city who are shot in street violence every single year, making it one of the most violent cities on planet Earth.

Speaker 30 And the voices that you hear out there, those crazy communists, they have no roots. They have no connections to the city.
They have no families they are raising in this city.

Speaker 30 They have no one that they are sending to school in this city. They have no jobs in this city.
They have no connections to this community at all.

Speaker 30 But they're the ones who've been advocating for the 1%.

Speaker 30 The criminals, the killers, the rapists, the drug dealers. And I'm glad they're here today.
Because me, Pete, and the vice president are all going to leave here.

Speaker 30 And inspired by them, we're going to add thousands more resources to this city to get the criminals and the gang members out of here.

Speaker 30 All these demonstrators that you've seen out here in recent days, all of these elderly white hippies, they're not part of the city and never have been.

Speaker 30 And by the way, most of the citizens who live in Washington, D.C. are black.
This is not a city that has had any safety for its black citizens for generations.

Speaker 30 And President Trump is the one who is fixing that with the support of the Metropolitan Police Department, the support of the National Guard, and our federal law enforcement officers.

Speaker 30 So we're going to ignore these stupid white hippies that all need to go home and take a nap because they're all over 90 years old.

Speaker 30 and we're going to get back to the business of protecting the American people and the citizens of Washington, D.C.

Speaker 12 He's amazing. He's standing next to Pete Hegg says, Secretary of Defense, and J.D.
Vance, sitting Vice President of the United States in Union Station, taking this on directly. It's extraordinary.

Speaker 12 Elderly, stupid white hippies can go home. D.C.
is a black city, and they appreciate what we're doing. Boom.
Truth bomb dropped, Dan.

Speaker 16 Yeah, as usual, he might be a little over the top in his rhetoric, but he is right. Look, DC was home for me for 20 years.
My family still lives there.

Speaker 16 Before Trump did this latest move, when I would call down there just to check in with people, ask how their families are, et cetera.

Speaker 16 The last few years, you heard increasingly, Dan, crime is getting really bad again here.

Speaker 16 You can't walk. The Capitol Hill staffers who live up on the hill would talk about

Speaker 16 taking Ubers five blocks because they didn't want to walk home anymore, going to a nationals baseball game that's about a half mile walk from the hill down.

Speaker 16 People don't walk down there or at least walk back at night after the game anymore.

Speaker 13 It is bad.

Speaker 16 And so I think when what Donald Trump did, this is where it drives me nuts as a Democrat. Rather than say, look, this move is insufficient, right? Ultimately, we need 10,000 more police officers.

Speaker 16 You know, nationwide, we need to have more resources. It's obsession about the process.
It's obsession about Donald Trump. He's authoritative.

Speaker 16 We are basically defending crime, saying, well, it's okay. It's in urban cities.
It's not that bad.

Speaker 16 It drives me nuts that as a party, we again will not focus on the substance and try to outflank him, but instead go down the rabbit hole of process arguments.

Speaker 15 Megan is sound so funny about this. Yeah.
Two things. One, I used to live next to Union Station.
It is a shell of itself now. Most of the stores are gone.

Speaker 15 It truly has been a homeless encampment in there. It's disgusting because it's an absolutely beautiful, beautiful building.
And it's kind of scary when you get off the Amtrak now just to walk out.

Speaker 15 But for all these people on the left in particular who decry the use of the National Guard, now you three are, I think, all New Yorkers or been in and out of the city. I don't go that often.

Speaker 15 But when I do train up to New York City and I get out at Moynihan or Penn, I believe those individuals are National Guards that are protecting Penn Station and Moynihan Station.

Speaker 15 And no one has ever had a problem with that, right?

Speaker 15 The idea of bringing in additional security forces to the nation's capital so whether you're a visitor a diplomat a student or or a resident there that it's safe should be welcomed by all this is another example of trump just doing common sense things that the left gets triggered by and makes stupid responses again this is where if they had any sense they would just say on this issue we agree with the president and move on but they want to fight him on every single thing and this is what makes we talked about this why we're losing people it's it's not just young men, it's basically anybody that cares about their personal safety and security or their families.

Speaker 15 There aren't people who feel safe in the nation's capital. And to ignore it and to dismiss it, as Kara Swisher, our previous

Speaker 15 example on another subject, dismissed the other day on CNN and said it's a made-up controversy by Donald Trump is just simply not true. I mean, to Dan's point, I put this out on Twitter the other day.

Speaker 15 If you are a Democrat, do me a favor, go to the neighborhood of your choosing when the sun goes down, ditch your security detail, and walk five blocks, and then you can talk.

Speaker 15 None of them will do that because they know it's true.

Speaker 12 Wait, and look at this one, Sean. It's not just Kara Swisher.
Take a look at Eugene Daniels, who was

Speaker 12 at Politico. Now he's at MSNBC, head of the White House Correspondents Association, who constantly, yeah, sorry, MS Now, correct.
Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 12 Who

Speaker 12 He loves to dress up like Beyonce. This is, I mean, literally like Beyonce, like a woman, like his big bottom showing.

Speaker 12 Yeah, look, look, this is the head of the White House correspondence dinner, I mean, association and dinner. And he wants you to know there's no crime problem to speak of in D.C., SOT 26.

Speaker 31 I have walked the streets in heels, nail polish, and shorts on Pride and was just fine. So the streets of D.C.

Speaker 12 are not strife with crime, as everyone's trying to say.

Speaker 12 I'm sorry, but you're an idiot, Eugene.

Speaker 12 You're right. He's an idiot because he didn't get mugged during the Pride pride parade.
He can speak for the black community.

Speaker 12 I have to tell you something, Mark Alperin, as somebody who believes 100% in what they're doing down there and shares many of the principles that J.D.

Speaker 12 Vance shares and what Stephen Miller was articulating there, it is just, it's not just what they're doing. The fact that those three guys went to Union Station.

Speaker 12 while there were these ridiculous protests trying to stop them from cleaning it up and fought.

Speaker 12 And Stephen Miller saying, you know what, we're going to go go back to the White House and we're going to double down and we're going to send more troops because you're doing this.

Speaker 12 Or Tom Holman saying to the sanctuary cities, one of my guys took it in the face in sanctuary cities thanks to you mayors not protecting him.

Speaker 12 We're going to target sanctuary cities above the other cities now.

Speaker 12 I can't explain how gratifying it is for someone like me, and I'm sure many who are listening now to hear that, to hear like unapologetic fighting for ideals we know to be just

Speaker 13 well the parallel to what's gone on in the ukraine-russia negotiations is pretty stark and clear i said that was as bad a case as anti-trump coverage as i've seen this is pretty bad too and it goes back to democrats have ruled this city forever and as stephen miller said the residents of the city predominantly black have not had safety for their kids, for their neighborhoods, for their communities.

Speaker 13 If the Democrats have a better idea, they should put it forward. But if not, they should welcome an effort to try to fix things.

Speaker 12 And really,

Speaker 13 when we start to get intertwine it with the immigration stuff and all of these reporters saying how outrageous that they're trying to

Speaker 13 detain and deport people who are here illegally.

Speaker 13 They just again and again, not just on the wrong side of public opinion, not just on the wrong side of the politics, but on the wrong side of doing what's right for D.C.

Speaker 13 We need to be vigilant. They shouldn't be violating civil liberties.
They shouldn't be doing things that are inefficiently done. They shouldn't be using the military in a gratuitous way.

Speaker 13 But the president has a plan to try to fix DC, where tourists from around the country and the world come, where citizens have not been afforded the most basic responsibility of government, which is public safety.

Speaker 13 And instead, they want to turn it into another violation of norms that offends them about Donald Trump.

Speaker 12 Okay, so we've teased it long enough. Might as well get to MS now.

Speaker 12 I mean, I think for most of us it's going to be MS DNC for for for the duration but in any event they've decided to change their call letters because they had to because there's been a split at the corporate level and NBC did not want to share the call letters with the loser sister cable channel anymore and insisted that there be a breakup I love that NBC is pretending it's this unvarnished brand that has no political bias attached to it whatsoever in the eyes of the consumer.

Speaker 12 So if we could just separate legally from MSNBC, people will realize that. That's why the rebranding happened.
Now, it stands for MS

Speaker 12 Now, which stands for news,

Speaker 12 opinion, and the world, which doesn't make any sense. Is there no news and opinion in the world? Like, what

Speaker 12 my source, my source for news, opinion, in the world. Like, what do you mean, news, opinion,

Speaker 12 like in the world, outside of the world? How did we have to add the world? I don't totally understand. But in any event, MS Now is the new call

Speaker 12 sign. And here, back to Joe Scarborough, Mark's favorite, defending the name with this positive spin.
SOP 40.

Speaker 19 They even have a graphic of this shows. We're independent.

Speaker 24 Like when you have somebody come into your company for working for like big corporations and say, and you're talking, you're saying,

Speaker 24 and they go, we want you to be entrepreneurial. We want you to come up with new ideas.
We want you to push the boundaries. I'm excited about that.

Speaker 19 So I'm excited about this.

Speaker 25 I've always thought about this network and CNBC and USA and actually all of those assets as insurgent networks. Right.
This is insurgent network.

Speaker 32 So it does seem an ideal time to rebrand, an ideal time to embrace a new identity, as you said, to be an insurgent network.

Speaker 15 You know, Megan, I finally figured out what the people who rebranded New Coke where they went. Now we know.

Speaker 12 Insurgents.

Speaker 13 This will not be the name.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I agree. It won't.
No. What's the name going to be? Just MS.

Speaker 13 I don't don't know, but something better. I mean, it's so misguided.
They originally said, you know, they weren't going to change the name, but it won't be the name. It just, it's too stupid.

Speaker 12 Like, it's too stupid.

Speaker 13 And, and, and, and my, I no longer draw a check from Comcast, so I can say openly that whoever came, whoever came up with this process needs to reevaluate the process in place to make decisions because this is just a

Speaker 13 several week-long PR hit. They don't have to pay someone else to come up with a new name.
They don't have to embarrassingly tell the media there's yet another new name. Big mistake, I would say.

Speaker 31 Big mistake.

Speaker 12 Honestly, I think it's a good idea. To go with insurgents as you're like, we're an insurgency.

Speaker 12 I mean, literally, most adults of a certain age understand that term as about Iraq and ISIS and a group that killed American service personnel.

Speaker 12 It's not really how you want to describe yourself as a news organization, like a bunch of disgusting, heartless killers.

Speaker 12 And by the way, if you listen to the full sound bite there, what they're bragging about is that now you see they're going to be,

Speaker 12 this is a, their break from legacy media. This is their break.
So they're no longer part of legacy media. They're basically doing what the four of us are doing, you see.

Speaker 12 This is their attempt to make the cable news channel, MSNBC, into like a two-way or a next up or a Megan Kelly show, trying to revitalize their relevance, Dan.

Speaker 12 It's like, like, what an obvious, why don't, why doesn't anyone come out and say, this was so fucking stupid, but they insisted that we do it. So, all right, that's who we're going to say we are now.

Speaker 16 I love it because I agree with Mark. I think it's the dumbest name I've ever heard.
That the jokes online were hilarious about what great acronym really stands for.

Speaker 16 Look, I think if you're going to relaunch like this, like let's just say the name is great, if we all wanted to go along with it. What's the new product?

Speaker 16 What is the insurgent new ideas or formats or hosts or shows that you're going to have that says like, this is new, this is clean, this is exciting. We get it.

Speaker 16 Yeah, we're going to mimic people like Megan Kelly and others who are drawing ratings and growing rapidly. I don't understand

Speaker 16 what they did. It was just like, yep, we're going to continue to do the same lineup with the same posts, but with a different name, but we're insurgents now.

Speaker 12 That's exactly right.

Speaker 16 You know, just

Speaker 12 I'll give you a little bit more. Rachel Maddow, she spoke to it.
Again, more bullshit on how this is like a real plus SOT 41.

Speaker 12 In the end, once that is stood up, we will no longer have to compete with NBC News' properties for the news gathering, the product of the news gathering organization.

Speaker 12 We can apply our own instincts, our own queries, our own priorities to getting stuff that we need from reporters and correspondents. And so it's going to be better.

Speaker 12 Oh, my God. All right.
I mean, I worked at NBC. I found that.
NBC is the deep pocket. NBC is the one that has the teams that actually can cover world events and has the money.

Speaker 12 And MSNBC was the beneficiary of that to try to say it's a benefit to lose those pockets and be now the non-money-making loser cable sister, stepsister that no one wanted is just another blatant lie.

Speaker 12 Go ahead, Sean.

Speaker 15 I was going to say, I know we started the show by talking about the...

Speaker 15 issues that the Democrats have on messaging and the DNC in particular. I now feel even worse for MSNBC.
I mean, you talk about stupid. They're out there.
It just doesn't make sense.

Speaker 15 The bottom line is they got sold off and they're acting like somehow they're an insurgent. It doesn't, no one buys it.
It just, it's amazing how, like, do you

Speaker 12 think that

Speaker 19 right? No one wanted you.

Speaker 15 You literally couldn't keep the name anymore and you're acting like this is a good thing. You got broken up.
Like, this is the person who got broken up with being like, I wanted to be single.

Speaker 15 I just, I didn't really want to be dating anyone anymore. Like, they got, they got dumped.
That's the answer. Give me, give me an answer.

Speaker 12 It's like your parents raised you to age 14 and then put you up for

Speaker 12 adoption and said, change its name. We don't want it to have any affiliation with us.
And you're out there like, sure, I have an insurgent now. I'm an insurgent.

Speaker 12 I'm thrilled to no longer have a dollar to my name to pay my bills. Because truly, I mean, this is the new situation for them.
Go ahead, Mark.

Speaker 13 Give me access to my ChatGPT account in 20 minutes. I'll get them a better logo and a better name.

Speaker 12 Okay, before I let you go, Mark Halperin, Vladimir Putin was not arrested when he came through for the summit. I I heard some nonsense on Tuay.

Speaker 12 Would you like to account for that prediction?

Speaker 13 I can't.

Speaker 13 It was a joke. My point of the thing, and I may explain this several times, happy to do it again.
My point was

Speaker 13 it was kind of incredible to host on United States soil a murderous dictator. And that

Speaker 13 the moment was for the president to manage and justify the reality that if he showed up in Europe, he probably would be arrested.

Speaker 13 I didn't have any sources saying he would be arrested. I didn't literally mean he would be arrested.

Speaker 13 What I meant, but to be provocative, was what an incredible moment that President Trump is bringing this guy, not just to meet with him, but to meet with him in the United States to highlight the starkness of this, that he was the only way to make peace in this war is for the president to sit with a murderous dictator.

Speaker 13 That was my point.

Speaker 12 I guess I didn't make it.

Speaker 12 The progress that we made there appears to be

Speaker 12 eroding by the second as the Russians came out the next day and said,

Speaker 12 yeah, I said,

Speaker 12 well, let me tell you what Russians do.

Speaker 12 I'm aware.

Speaker 12 As they came out and said, Oh, we deny everything. Like, we didn't really agree to security guarantees by European countries or the United States.
In fact, that's a deal breaker.

Speaker 12 And, you know, we're really not sure we're going to have a two-way meeting with Zelensky. So they're playing their games.

Speaker 12 And yet, you have the Europeans continuously and openly saying, We have never been this close to ending this war since the four years that it's been in progress and crediting the president for getting us there.

Speaker 12 All right, I got to go. You guys, thanks for being here.
We'll talk to you soon. Coming up next, the CEO of Burna.
Now, let me tell you something.

Speaker 12 Burna is an advertiser on this show, and we don't normally have the advertisers come on as guests, but you have got to see this product, okay? Because it's the new thing in self-defense.

Speaker 12 And I love my Burna. I'll explain why I love my Burna.

Speaker 12 And every single female friend I have loves her Burna and the guys too, but I'll tell you why it makes particular sense for women when we come back. Don't go away.

Speaker 12 We talk a lot about personal freedom on this show. Well, part of that is owning your privacy.

Speaker 12 And let me tell you, if you have ever Googled your name and found your home address, phone number, or even your income floating around, it's not a coincidence.

Speaker 12 That data is bought and sold by data brokers without your consent. This is why I want to tell you about Incogni, a service that fights back on your behalf.

Speaker 12 Incogni contacts those shady sites and gets your personal data removed automatically. No forms, no emails.

Speaker 12 They handle the back and forth with these brokers and they just update you through their simple dashboard. It can really be a relief.

Speaker 12 If you care about your privacy and you want fewer spam calls, junk emails, and less risk of identity theft, consider this step.

Speaker 12 And right now, you can get 60% off an annual plan at incogni.com/slash Megan. Use code Megan at checkout to get that 60% 6060% off.
I-N-C-O-G-N-I dot com slash Megan.

Speaker 12 And code Megan when you check out. Take back control of your data with Incogni.

Speaker 12 Look, it can be hard for a lot of parents to get their kids interested in ideas that actually matter.

Speaker 12 They can be lectured all day long about freedom and responsibility our country's founding, but if their eyes glaze over, then nothing's going to stick. But let me tell you about Tuttle Twins.

Speaker 12 Their new family starter pack makes these big ideas click for kids through their storytelling approach. These are fun adventures where the lessons come alive.
Kids experience the ideas in a story.

Speaker 12 They understand them, they remember them, and they can explain them back to you.

Speaker 12 The Family Starter Pack includes all 14 of the original Tuttle Twins storybooks, covering topics like free markets, individual liberty, and personal responsibility, plus both volumes of America's history, so your kids can learn the truth about our founding.

Speaker 12 from original sources, not political spin. It's everything you need to give your kids the education and values they deserve, and they'll actually enjoy it.

Speaker 12 Right now, there's a special deal on the Family Starter Pack. Go to tuttletwins.com slash MK.
That's tuttletwins.com slash MK and get your set today.

Speaker 28 He's Kenny Main, the funny guy from ESPN.

Speaker 29 Formerly. He's Cooper Manning, the more intelligent and handsome of the Manning brothers.

Speaker 27 And he's Brian Baumgartner. But to me, he'll always be Kevin from the office.
Yeah, you and everybody else.

Speaker 28 Together, we're the hosts of the new comedy golf podcast, We Need a Fourth, from Smartless Media and SiriusXM.

Speaker 30 It's like a cold beer after a round.

Speaker 27 You hear the strangest and most bizarre golf stories from our friends, athletes, celebrities, and comedians.

Speaker 29 It's all about how much we love golf and how much we hate golf. New episodes are out every week.
Listen now and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Could just be anywhere, just on a couch.

Speaker 29 Doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 If you're a smoker or dipper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason.

Speaker 4 But with Zen nicotine pouches, you'll discover many good reasons.

Speaker 6 Zin is America's number one nicotine pouch brand.

Speaker 9 Plus, Zen offers a robust rewards program.

Speaker 7 There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zen.

Speaker 8 Check out Zinn.com/slash find to find Zen at a store near you.

Speaker 11 Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Speaker 12 I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

Speaker 12 It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today.

Speaker 12 You can catch the Megan Kelly Show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr.

Speaker 12 Laura, Flan Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megan Kelly. You can stream the Megan Kelly Show on SiriXM at home or anywhere you are, no car required.
I do it all the time.

Speaker 12 I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad-free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast, and more.
Subscribe now, get your first three months for free.

Speaker 33 Go to seriousxm.com/slash MK Show to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com/slash MK Show and get three months free.
Offer details apply.

Speaker 12 Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show. Viewers and listeners of this program have heard me talk about Burna, a company that makes less lethal weapons for self-defense.

Speaker 12 The Massachusetts-based corporation makes pistols and rifles, but they're not technically firearms because they're powered by CO2 canisters rather than gunpowder or any sort of explosive.

Speaker 12 The idea is to give individuals a powerful way to defend themselves without resorting to deadly force.

Speaker 12 The company says it has sold nearly 700,000 of its launchers since 2019 and has yet to learn about a single fatality. But that does not mean that the weapons are not powerful.

Speaker 12 Here's a demonstration of the force of Berna's kinetic projectiles. Watch.

Speaker 12 Wow, we just learned a lot just then, and mostly it's that the burn-up completely destroys random objects.

Speaker 12 I think that would dissuade an assailant.

Speaker 30 Oh, God, that's it.

Speaker 12 Ow!

Speaker 12 Ow! It shows a picture of the leg. The last person shot in that video is the company's president and CEO, Brian Gance.
Brian joins us now to discuss more.

Speaker 12 Brian, you really took one for the team there.

Speaker 17 You know, that was the title of the video. CEO takes one for the team because I couldn't convince any of my employees to get shot.

Speaker 12 So, all right, I want the audience to see I've got two of the compact launchers right here. And I love the black one because it looks like a real gun.

Speaker 12 I have to say, now there's no, there's nothing in here.

Speaker 12 I've been pulling the trigger because there's nothing in here and I know that and we've checked. But it's a very kind of, it's it's a cool looking pistol because it does resemble a real gun.

Speaker 12 And in the moment, God forbid you get confronted by an intruder, I have to say, this is something that a lot of my friends in particular who have had no training on guns would feel comfortable taking out because every woman I know who hasn't been trained in guns is concerned about having a gun because she's convinced it'll be used against her and she doesn't want to get killed.

Speaker 12 And this is a way, I think, where a woman can have something that could protect her and she doesn't have to worry that, God forbid, it gets turned on her, that she's dead.

Speaker 12 I mean, do you, do you feel, do you get that kind of feedback from a lot of your customers?

Speaker 17 We do. I mean, there's tremendous stopping power with the burner.
And I'll tell you, Megan, I've been a gun owner my entire life. And, but I always wondered how quick would I be to pull the trigger.

Speaker 17 And I had an experience about a decade ago, which really informed me as to how quick I would be to pull the the trigger.

Speaker 17 I was in a road rage incident, and there was a guy that was right on my bumper, and he was banging his horn.

Speaker 17 And I really got nervous, and I pulled off to the side of the road, thinking that he would go around me. But he didn't.
He pulled in right behind me, and he got out of his truck.

Speaker 17 And I've got a Glock 19, my nine millimeter, the glove box. And I'm thinking, do I get out of the car? with my gun or do I get out without my gun?

Speaker 17 And I'm thinking, nothing good can happen if I get out of the car with my gun. So I got out without a gun and nothing good happened.
I mean, this guy was bigger, younger, stronger, angrier.

Speaker 17 And he came at me and he threw me to the ground. And, you know, he could have really hurt me.
Fortunately, all he really hurt was my pride.

Speaker 17 But I realized at that moment that if I wasn't prepared to pull the trigger, the gun was of no value to me. And although I am an

Speaker 17 avid 2A supporter, I was not going to shoot an unarmed man. And that was kind of the genesis of Burna.

Speaker 17 We wanted to give somebody the ability to stop an assailant, to hold them at bay, to call the police, but without the risk of taking a life.

Speaker 17 And that's what Burna is really designed for.

Speaker 12 I think it's a good supplement. You know, so a lot of people listening to this program will have firearms in their home.

Speaker 12 And, but you're right, not every situation calls for it. And so why wouldn't you supplement, depending on the situation?

Speaker 12 You don't always have to go to an 11 where you actually are placing, you know, a possible fatality out there as one of the outcomes. But with Burna, you're not.

Speaker 12 Can you explain the two different kinds of ammunition that you can put in the Burna pistol? So here's one. I've got these sort of these kinetic projectiles.
This is one of the things you get.

Speaker 12 The audience can see it's like, it looks almost like a gumball. You'd have to keep that away from the kids and the dogs.

Speaker 12 Strudwick is my main concern with my Burnout kinetic projectiles, but explain the two types of ammo.

Speaker 17 Okay, well, first off, just to get back to this continuum of force that you were talking about, the police have everything from, you know, a voice command to baton, pepper spray, taser, all the way up to their firearm.

Speaker 17 For most civilians, they don't have anything between, you know, a voice command and a gun. And the burner was to give them something a little bit further down in the continuum of force.

Speaker 17 We make two different projectiles. The kinetic projectile, which you were just showing, is what I got hit with.
And that is basically a high-grade polymer. Looks kind of like a marble.

Speaker 17 And it has tremendous pain compliance, is what the police refer to it as uh meaning it hurts like hell and you get hit with it and the vast majority of people are are going to you know turn and run

Speaker 17 but some people might be able to power through it for those people we have these chemical irritant rounds they're filled with either pepper oc oleoresin capsaicin or with CS, which is tear gas.

Speaker 17 And what this does is the pellets explode when they hit the person. They form this cloud around their head.

Speaker 17 Immediately, they're temporarily blinded. Their skin is on fire, they're in respiratory distress.

Speaker 17 Most people drop whatever they're holding, they move their hands to their eyes because their eyes are on fire.

Speaker 17 And they generally get down on their hands and knees.

Speaker 12 Let me show that because

Speaker 12 we have a video of that kind of projectile in SOT 52.

Speaker 12 Yeah,

Speaker 13 See, this person

Speaker 6 is not having a good day.

Speaker 12 He's writhing. He's like waving his hands, trying to get the smell away from him.

Speaker 12 He's crawling.

Speaker 12 He's taking off his shirt. He's trying to get released.

Speaker 17 Your skin feels like it's on fire. Anything where that urgent has touched your skin would be burning.

Speaker 12 Who's this poor poor guy who agreed to this?

Speaker 17 This was actually one of our employees down in South Africa. We had a much easier time in South Africa getting people to agree to get shot for a few hundred dollars than we did here in the U.S.

Speaker 12 But it does bring it home. So wait, so how would it work then? Like,

Speaker 12 do you have to have two guns with the different projectiles?

Speaker 17 No, the way I load my gun and the way I would recommend that you load your gun, Megan, is I put in the three chemical irritant projectiles first. So they come out last.

Speaker 17 And then I put in the two hard kinetic projectiles. In most cases, the kinetic projectile will be more than adequate.
You know, you'll shoot somebody once and they will turn on their heels and run.

Speaker 17 But if they are committed, if they're going to power through, you want to be able to physically stop them, as we just saw with that video, where you incapacitate them through

Speaker 17 temporary blindness, respiratory distress,

Speaker 17 intense burning sensation.

Speaker 17 Interestingly, though, you know, most times the burn is used, nobody even pulls the trigger.

Speaker 17 So, I was on a podcast maybe two months ago, and I can't remember the guy's name, but he wrote that book, More Guns, Less Crime. And he's a, you know, a strong 2A proponent.

Speaker 17 And he says 95% of the time, when you pull out a gun to stop an assailant,

Speaker 17 you don't have to pull the trigger.

Speaker 12 Just the idea of fighting back.

Speaker 12 John, sorry, John, John Locke.

Speaker 13 Yeah. I think he's the man on the back.

Speaker 17 Exactly. John Locke.

Speaker 12 Yeah.

Speaker 12 So just you pull it and that's enough to deter people.

Speaker 12 But I will say something I like about the chemical irritating rounds, like the next level round, is you don't actually have to have a direct hit for it to work.

Speaker 12 Like you could have an intruder and you could shoot the wall right next to them if your aim is not so great and still take them down.

Speaker 17 Well, you know, there is a certain horseshoes and hand grenades aspect to this. All you need to do is get near the assailant.
But the police have really created an art out of this.

Speaker 17 So for example, we're carried by over 300 police agencies. The most dangerous thing in policing is you come up on a car, the windows are blackened.
People are not getting out of the car.

Speaker 17 You have no idea whether they've got a gun in the car. And, you know, if you ask any law enforcement officer, this is the single most difficult traffic stop.

Speaker 17 What they've been able to do with the burner is to shoot out the windows with the kinetic rounds. So one round will take out the window and then to fire the chemical irritant rounds into the car.

Speaker 17 And what happens is it's like a clown car with all these people come out, you know, with their hands up, coughing, choking, you know, getting down on their hands and knees.

Speaker 17 So law enforcement uses it quite often where they don't even.

Speaker 17 They can't even see the person they're shooting at, but they can shoot rounds into a car, into a room, into some area where they want to get the people out of that car or out of that room.

Speaker 12 Like I was thinking about, remember after the George Floyd incident in 2020, when these flash mobs for like two years would show up at the 7-Eleven or some local store and

Speaker 12 go into the store and lewd the, you know, there'd be looting, there'd be just rabble-rousing.

Speaker 12 This, to me, would be the perfect kind of weapon to have because you don't actually want to shoot someone to death, but you feel under threat and you do want them to get out.

Speaker 12 And you could shoot the floor

Speaker 12 away from yourself and ideally get them out of there if you can't get police help. And in too many communities in America, they're not close to police help.
They really are on their own.

Speaker 17 Well, look at what's going on in Washington, D.C.

Speaker 17 So Washington, D.C. is out of control.
Thank God the president has federalized the police. He's brought in the National Guard.
But not every city has federalized police or National Guard.

Speaker 17 And in most places, like you said, you are your own first responder. You cannot rely on the police getting there in time.

Speaker 17 And you need to have something to protect yourself. And honestly, nobody wants to shoot, you know, a 15-year-old kid, but none of us want to be a victim.

Speaker 17 You need to have something that you can use to protect yourself. And, you know, although I've been an avid gun owner my whole life and I've never,

Speaker 17 you know, I've never given up any of my guns, I carry a burner which I can use first. I still have my Glock 19 in the glove box, but I'm going to try my burner first.

Speaker 17 If that doesn't work, if they have a gun, then I'll pull out my lethal firearm, but I'll first go to non-lethal.

Speaker 12 Yes, I think a lot of people feel that way, especially given how litigious people are in today's day and age. I know that 95% of your sales are to consumers, 5% to law enforcement.

Speaker 12 You can get a pistol or you can get a rifle and you can get the compact burnout like I have, but I have the full-size Burna too.

Speaker 12 I've got a few of these guns, and I have to tell you, I feel a lot safer thanks to Burna. And that's the reason that I accepted them as advertisers.

Speaker 12 We have a lot of advertisers that you're literally like one of the only ones I've ever put on to actually talk about the product because I think it could save lives, Brian. Thank you.

Speaker 12 Thank you so much for your support and for doing this.

Speaker 17 Well, thank you very much, Beg. And we really appreciate the platform.

Speaker 13 Thank you very much.

Speaker 12 All the best. Okay, so it's Burna, spelled B-Y-R-N-A.
We love our Ys here at the Megan Kelly Show. Burna, B-Y-R-N-A.com.
Check it out. I have to tell you, my Burna is the envy of all my neighborhood.

Speaker 12 They're all going to order these things because who doesn't want multiple layers of self-defense, right? It depends. You never know what's going to happen and you want to be prepared.

Speaker 12 Okay, thank you for listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow.
We're back with Maureen Callahan.

Speaker 12 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

Speaker 23 Hey, this is Will Arnett, host of Smartless. Smartless is a podcast with myself and Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman, where each week one of us reveals a mystery guest to the other two.

Speaker 23 We dive deep with guests that you love, like Bill Hayter, Selena Gomez, Jennifer Aniston, David Beckham, Kristen Stewart, and tons more.

Speaker 23 So join us for a genuinely improvised and authentic conversation filled with laughter and newfound knowledge to feed the smartless mind. Listen to Smartless Now on the Sirius XM app.

Speaker 23 Download it today.

Speaker 2 If you're a smoker or dipper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason.

Speaker 4 But with Zen nicotine pouches, you'll discover many good reasons.

Speaker 6 Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand.

Speaker 9 Plus, Zen offers a robust rewards program.

Speaker 7 There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zin.

Speaker 8 Check out Zinn.com/slash find to find Zin at a store near you.

Speaker 11 Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.