Lisa Cook Investigation Grows, RFK vs. Senators, and Bari Weiss CBS News Rumblings, with Glenn Greenwald

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Speaker 10 Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Speaker 15 Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show.

Speaker 16 Tons of breaking news happening right now, especially in the legal battles related to President Trump.

Speaker 26 Sources telling the Megan Kelly Show, There is now a grand jury proceeding underway in Atlanta, Georgia, Georgia, looking into whether Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook committed criminal fraud by listing more than one property as a primary residence when she applied for mortgages or mischaracterizing her mortgages in general, and that this probe may go even beyond those specific instances.

Speaker 33 We'll find out.

Speaker 38 But what this means is that the referral by Bill Pulte, the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, to the DOJ of the Miss Cook problems has satisfied DOJ prosecutors that the Cook alleged mortgage fraud is serious enough to warrant possible criminal charges against her.

Speaker 17 They're presenting it to a grand jury in Atlanta right now.

Speaker 22 Ms.

Speaker 33 Cook's got bigger problems than the loss of her job.

Speaker 40 She should really focus her efforts right now to staying out of jail.

Speaker 36 and not to holding on to her Cush 14-year position for which she was unqualified to begin with.

Speaker 24 We'll get into the details that we've just learned here.

Speaker 47 Plus, we've got RFKJ on Capitol Hill sparring with Democratic senators and some on the right too.

Speaker 12 But man, some of these Democratic senators, good lord, Michael Bennett of Colorado, he's an angry, angry man.

Speaker 52 Good gracious, he's pissed.

Speaker 31 Every time you hear from him, he's really angry.

Speaker 55 He's got like, he should like, he's from Colorado.

Speaker 54 Go away, look at the beautiful mountains.

Speaker 17 Smell the gorgeous fresh air if you can get away from all the weed that's all over Colorado.

Speaker 25 But But like do something to lower your temperature, sir.

Speaker 20 Every time I see you, you're spitting mad.

Speaker 26 You're okay.

Speaker 54 Take a chill pill.

Speaker 22 Joining me now, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and host of Rumble's system update, Glenn Greenwald.

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Speaker 73 Glenn, welcome back. How are you doing?

Speaker 74 I'm doing good. I took my chill pills right before I came on.
I'm going to be very relaxed, very zen, very tranquil in contrast to Michael Bennett. So I'm ready to go.

Speaker 16 Yeah, it shouldn't be hard for him to get a joint just to take the edge off a little before he goes to his job.

Speaker 9 That's what I mean.

Speaker 76 Right?

Speaker 51 Like, my God, just that's a lot, sir.

Speaker 2 I'm going to get to him in one second, but I do want to start with Lisa Cook.

Speaker 49 This is very interesting because just because this federal housing guy, Bill Pultey, refers it, you know, as it makes a referral to the DOJ does not mean the DOJ is actually going to run with it or actually pursue an indictment with a grand jury.

Speaker 16 But our information is that's exactly what's happening.

Speaker 20 She allegedly committed fraud.

Speaker 44 She denies it, in three different jurisdictions.

Speaker 79 One was Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Speaker 80 One was Atlanta, Georgia, and the third was Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Speaker 66 For whatever reason, we're told that this grand jury has been opened in Atlanta, although we're told that the FBI is on the case in at least two out of those three instances.

Speaker 34 So the FBI is investigating her.

Speaker 30 We are told that the possible charges that they're looking at include mortgage fraud, wire fraud, and it could go beyond that, Glenn.

Speaker 21 She is now trying to make the case through her lawyer, Abby Lowell, that she is not fireable for these alleged offenses because now she's claiming she disclosed these shenanigans to senators and Biden administration officials in 2022 when she went through the confirmation process.

Speaker 86 So my first thought to that was, and I'd love to know what you think as a lawyer yourself,

Speaker 18 you can't disclose away crimes and then later say you can't fire me for the crimes.

Speaker 27 Like,

Speaker 75 if it's a crime, it's a crime.

Speaker 49 And just because Biden may have given you a pass on it, you're not going to turn around later and say, the new administration has no right to fire me because they actually do care about crimes.

Speaker 27 Like, that's not going to fly if it rises to the level of criminality, in my view.

Speaker 11 But, secondly,

Speaker 20 I also have real questions about whether she really did disclose what they're now saying she disclosed.

Speaker 41 It's the old princess bride.

Speaker 22 I do not think you know what that term means.

Speaker 14 Because you look at the alleged disclosures that Abby Lowell is citing, and he is saying in his motion,

Speaker 36 okay, I'm pulling it up, that I don't want to get it exactly, she can't be fired over allegations of mortgage fraud because she already fessed up to discrepancies.

Speaker 16 This is New York Post reporting, in her home loan paperwork while she was being vetted by the Biden administration ahead of her confirmation in 2022.

Speaker 76 Abby Lowell confirmed that Cook stated on a background check form submitted as part of her vetting, one, that the Michigan house, the one in Ann Arbor, was her primary residence and her Georgia condo was her second home.

Speaker 48 Two, on another document, she listed both abodes as well as her Massachusetts condo as her present residence while specifying the Michigan home was her current permanent residence and the Cabrines condo was both a second home and a rental property.

Speaker 16 That's the evidence that she allegedly disclosed this to the Biden administration when vetted.

Speaker 52 Glenn, that's just listing your residences.

Speaker 17 That from this, in defense of Team Biden, no one would have any idea that she allegedly committed mortgage fraud by claiming as primary residences places that were not or as secondary homes, places that were actually rental properties, and so on.

Speaker 94 So, this, even what they're arguing in court to defend her, that she allegedly disclosed it, is apparently a bunch of horseshit.

Speaker 58 That's a legal term only people like you and I understand.

Speaker 91 Your thoughts?

Speaker 74 Yeah, I had a whole course on that in my third year of how to understand legal horseshit.

Speaker 74 You know, you know, not only is it not a disclosure, it's actually not even relevant to the claims.

Speaker 74 What constitutes mortgage fraud of the type that she's accused of having committed is that you go into the bank and you make claims about what your primary residence is because you get better rates on your mortgage.

Speaker 74 And you tell the bank something is your primary residence that in fact isn't, or in her case, as she's alleged to have done, you go in and you claim different residences as both being your primary residence, which by definition under the law is impossible.

Speaker 74 The fact that she listed addresses and claimed that she lived in some and not others during her appointment process and her vetting process isn't even remotely related to the question of whether the Biden administration knew or had reason to know that she lied to the banks.

Speaker 74 If, in fact, that's it's proving that that's what she's done. So, I don't even understand how this is even remotely a defense.

Speaker 74 Even if you were to assume that somehow, if you confess your lies to an administration that puts you in a job and the next administration discovers those crimes, they can't fire you because it's like you've got some kind of pardon.

Speaker 74 Like, what I tell you, I once robbed a bank and you make me, you know, like a head of an agency and the next administration is like, hey, he robbed a bank. I don't think he should belong.

Speaker 74 Oh, well, I confess that.

Speaker 74 That's not a part of it.

Speaker 87 That's fine with Megan.

Speaker 74 Yeah, she said it was good. She said I could still serve.

Speaker 74 But that's not what even these documents that her own highly qualified and very well-regarded lawyer, Abby Lowell, has been around DC forever.

Speaker 74 He can't even mount the case that on its face is persuasive, even about that dubious legal theory that if she confessed it, somehow she's immune from further consequences.

Speaker 12 Here's the other thing.

Speaker 16 If she's really going to go with this was all disclosed and handled as an effort to keep her job, again, as I said, she's got much bigger problems now than keeping her job.

Speaker 42 She'd like to keep her freedom.

Speaker 27 But I mean, if she's going to look at potentially multiple counts of wire fraud, mortgage fraud, and something else, she really could be headed to jail.

Speaker 13 By the way, now we just broke the news. So people are here.

Speaker 33 We broke that news on the Megan Kelly show about the grand jury.

Speaker 37 Now, the Wall Street Journal also reporting what we are reporting and saying that the DOJ is issuing subpoenas in connection with this inquiry in both Georgia, as we reported the grand jury is proceeding in Atlanta, and also in Michigan.

Speaker 86 And as I mentioned to you at the top of the show, our understanding is the FBI is investigating her in at least a couple of these three jurisdictions.

Speaker 2 So that would make sense.

Speaker 44 Michigan and Georgia were where the two main homes were. Then she added the one in Cambridge.

Speaker 60 The Wall Street Journal writes: the initial scrutiny has centered on Cook's properties in Ann Arbor and Atlanta, with investigators using grand juries as part of the probe.

Speaker 60 Cook's lawyer, Abby Lowell, did not respond to a request for comment by the Wall Street Journal.

Speaker 48 So it's all coming together.

Speaker 62 They have similar reporting to my own.

Speaker 13 And here's the question I have for you.

Speaker 21 If she really did

Speaker 16 have this vetted, as her lawyers are now claiming, with respect to just like, should she be fired and can she be fired on that front?

Speaker 64 Where's the Senate cross-examination on it?

Speaker 84 Which senator was told that she fudged her mortgage documents in a way that would streamline her applications with lower mortgage rates and probably lower down payments and blessed it?

Speaker 16 I'm looking forward to seeing that cross-examination from the Lisa Cook confirmation hearing where they said, oh, you committed fraud?

Speaker 38 Okay, no problem.

Speaker 43 We're never going to find it because this is all a lie.

Speaker 64 It was not disclosed.

Speaker 20 She may have disclosed she had residences in all these places, but these mortgage shenanigans were not disclosed because you can bet dollars to donuts in a very confrontational and acrimonious confirmation hearing.

Speaker 38 She only got confirmed 50-50.

Speaker 86 Kamala Harris had to pass it with the tying vote, the deciding vote.

Speaker 26 It would have come up.

Speaker 47 She would have been hammered by the Republicans, Glenn.

Speaker 74 The idea that this was known in Washington and they put her on the Fed, the Fed board anyway, is so insulting to our intelligence that it's hard to believe that's even being tried for so many reasons, including the fact that, oh, yeah, like just nobody mentioned it.

Speaker 74 There was this massive attempt to derail her nomination by the Republicans and they just didn't even bother to use this. Nobody mentioned it.
Nobody thought of it.

Speaker 74 But apparently it was so well known because she confessed it that it's such a joke.

Speaker 74 And the other thing I have to say, you know, megan is the reason why this also should be treated so skeptically even by people who might you know support her being on the fed is when it was first announced that trump planned to fire her it was instantly decreed that the only motive he had was his attempt to subvert the independence of the fed and to replace her with somebody more sympathetic to his economic objectives it was just asserted like assumed that none of the allegations against her had any merit at all these were just being invented and fabricated by Trump, the Trump White House, in order to justify removing somebody who he wanted to remove for political reasons.

Speaker 74 There was no notion of, oh, yeah, you know what, actually, she did do this, but for various legal reasons, he still doesn't have the authority to remove her.

Speaker 74 It was only after the media started looking more and seeing that there was actually a lot here, independent of just what Republicans might want with the Fed, did they then start having to shift their defense to invent reasons retroactively why she can't be fired.

Speaker 74 But that was never the claim at the start.

Speaker 18 Yes.

Speaker 24 Yes, and you can see how pathetic the attempted defense is in the way this is being covered.

Speaker 36 The Abby Lowell motion to try to get all of this against her, like in support of he wants the firing to be overruled, overturned, he argues as follows.

Speaker 87 During her Senate confirmation process, Governor Cook submitted questionnaires and provided reports that would have revealed the same purported facial contradictions the government now claims are caused to fire her.

Speaker 57 As if, in reading, she had a Michigan home as her primary residence and her Georgia condo was her second home.

Speaker 16 And then, reading, both abodes, as well as her Massachusetts condo, are her present residence.

Speaker 44 And specifying the Michigan home was her current permanent residence, and the Cambridge condo was both a second home and a rental property.

Speaker 70 As if reading that, these senators should have said, aha, mortgage fraud, wire fraud, as opposed to this is where she lives.

Speaker 57 She's doing financial disclosures so we understand conflicts of interest and so on and so forth.

Speaker 20 Like, this is so farcical.

Speaker 18 There's not even an allegation by Abby Lowell that something in here revealed her alleged fraud. And honestly, Glenn, now

Speaker 22 you still have the media trying to run cover for this woman.

Speaker 24 I'm going to give you a couple of examples down the same line, but this was Morning Joe just last week, where the national affairs analyst, John Heileman

Speaker 20 took it to this place in what the stakes are as Lisa Cook tries to defend herself.

Speaker 99 I think she's defending more than just the independence of the Federal Reserve Board.

Speaker 99 She's also making, highlighting a point here that is pervasively being abused throughout the Trump 2.0 era, which is the total disregard for due process, whether that relates to people like Kilmar Breargarasia, people who are being picked up on the street

Speaker 99 shipped off to foreign prisons without any due process, or whether it's in this case where Donald Trump is essentially asserting that this woman is guilty of something before she has been charged, tried, or convicted.

Speaker 85 Okay.

Speaker 85 Somehow now she's standing up for Kilmar Abreco-Garcia

Speaker 78 in not accepting her termination, Glenn.

Speaker 74 Okay, look, I'm a very, very vibrant advocate of due process. I mean, I get out of some problems with the Trump's deportation policies on due process grounds.

Speaker 74 I think you even, you and I once debated those.

Speaker 27 Yeah, yeah, we sparred on that.

Speaker 74 There's a kind of a big difference between putting somebody in prison without due process or putting them on a plane, sending them to an El Salvador dungeon without a prison.

Speaker 74 and telling someone that because of the cloud of impropriety that's justifiably hanging over their head, they cannot serve on the most important body that sets monetary policy for the United States.

Speaker 74 I mean, this is, I think, this is what I think is the key, Megan, is if at the beginning the argument was, oh, Trump is just fabricating this, he's going after a black woman who doesn't defer to his monetary policy, it's a way to, you know, vet the to undermine the

Speaker 74 independence of the Fed. This is all fabricated, then you could pretend you're kind of standing for a principle.

Speaker 74 But now that they're resorting to this other defense, which is like, yeah, maybe she did something wrong, but everybody already knew anyway.

Speaker 74 Why are you bringing up now?

Speaker 74 Now it's about defending the somehow the right of somebody, like she has a vested property interest, if you want to talk about due process, in being a governor of the board of the Federal Reserve, even though there's significant evidence that she committed mortgage fraud and she might even be ensnared now in what you're saying is to likely to be a grand jury investigation.

Speaker 74 These are utterly different things. Like, are the Democrats really going to go to war over the right of somebody who's ensnared in criminal allegations that have a lot of evidence to support them?

Speaker 74 The right not to stay out of prison, which I support, you don't go to prison until there's a trial or be deported or whatever but to serve on this extremely important body that you know this is what i find so bizarre is the eagerness of these people to cling to power like apparently being on this board is so important to her that she's willing it seems like to risk her liberty like if she were to just go away probably a lot of this case would go away too there'd be a lot less at stake but she look at how much they cling to these positions even though there's clearly evidence that they've at least engaged in improprieties if not outright crimes And that's what they're defending.

Speaker 84 She never denied it. She has not denied it.

Speaker 67 All she's done is come out there and say, well, in one instance, it might have been a clerical error through Abby Lowell.

Speaker 82 That's the best she's gotten to, which is, in effect, an admission that it did happen, that there is an incongruence on these documents about how many places were her primary residence.

Speaker 64 By the way, that's not going to save her.

Speaker 94 And if it were simply a clerical error, it would not have been made over and over and over, and always in a way that favored Lisa Cook's bottom line.

Speaker 48 The other day, when Ben Shapiro was here, we did a long discussion about, had a long discussion about her many

Speaker 42 dishonest statements on her academic resume and so on.

Speaker 84 Like, she, this woman, in my opinion, has a clear pattern of dishonesty.

Speaker 79 I want to give you one more.

Speaker 36 This is from the New York Times' daily podcast called The Daily on what her story is really all about, because they two did a deep dive on Lisa Cook late last week, SOT 15.

Speaker 27 Her most important research, Ben, as you said,

Speaker 103 was around what happens when you don't feel safe and secure in your position, when your government doesn't protect you.

Speaker 9 And I wonder what Professor Cook would say

Speaker 103 about the implications of that. There is an irony here that, in some ways, the person who has the most insight into this moment in the U.S.
economy,

Speaker 103 at least at the Fed,

Speaker 9 is Dr.

Speaker 105 Lisa Cook.

Speaker 103 Not only when it comes to maybe the fear that government employees are feeling, but the fear that people living in the U.S.

Speaker 103 in some cases are feeling right now, that people in immigrant communities, that people who feel threatened in different ways, right, may be feeling right now.

Speaker 76 Okay.

Speaker 30 So it's ironic that she, Lisa Cook, understands the plight of the illegal immigrants living in fear right now as she herself gets targeted in the same way that these

Speaker 53 unlawful residents are getting targeted.

Speaker 13 The absurdity of this, Glenn, based on that lynching paper she did about how, thanks to the culture of lynchings around 1900, black applications for patents went down.

Speaker 16 And then it turned out that the whole study turned out to be bullshit.

Speaker 20 Thanks to the reporting by a couple of intrepid reporters who showed that the database for the patents actually that she was relying on was not used at all.

Speaker 79 She didn't even, like, it was out, it stopped being used in 1900 entirely.

Speaker 13 And she based her research paper on that, which undermined all of her research.

Speaker 16 And the New York Times is still holding her up as like the preeminent expert on what happens in a, in a disadvantaged minority community when the society all hates them.

Speaker 32 So she understands it because she's black and she wrote this paper, and then she understands what the

Speaker 12 minority immigrants are going through.

Speaker 16 Just ask NBC and ask the New York Times.

Speaker 22 I'm having trouble trouble following it, but I think it all has something to do with being a minority is good and old Whitey is bad.

Speaker 74 On the list of people, I know there's like a big competition in the United States to claim marginalized victimhood status because that gives a lot of currency, like not just social currency, but also a lot of like political and financial currency.

Speaker 74 On the list of people who might qualify as marginalized, vulnerable individuals, probably last on my list would be people who are members of the Board of the Federal Reserve.

Speaker 74 Like the idea that she understands like what Emmett Till felt or like people who were lynched by the KKK in the South felt because she might actually have to give up her extremely powerful position because she committed mortgage fraud.

Speaker 74 This is the, you know, it really, it's almost like going back, being catapulted back to 2020 to the extreme, most extreme excesses of woke ideology and discourse where because somebody is black, automatically anything done against them is intrinsically suspect and inherently racist and i also just want to quickly add megan too that like there there's this now that there's this bizarre uh pattern in our discourse where even though the democrats spent eight years dreaming and trying to imprison donald trump for everything from the rushagate hoax to like payments to stormy daniels of everything in between Suddenly now, any attempt by the Trump Justice Department to prosecute anybody is immediately depicted as political persecution.

Speaker 74 They even defended John Bolton, even though it turns out that his case was considered very grave by the Biden Justice Department. And they don't care what the evidence against her is.

Speaker 74 What they know is that she's black, that Trump doesn't like her, and therefore any attempt to remove her is basically akin to lynching, which lo and behold, she studied and wrote about.

Speaker 74 So she ironically is now in the position that she used to teach about. That is insane.

Speaker 55 The left is so fun.

Speaker 107 I'm sorry, but they're so fun.

Speaker 70 Where would we be without these lunatics?

Speaker 52 All right, speaking of lunatics, Eugene Carroll is at it again.

Speaker 36 Here's what's happening.

Speaker 32 So she won a $5 million defamation case and sexual assault case against Trump.

Speaker 16 And then she won this other defamation case against him in which him saying, I didn't do this, she's a lunatic, was presumed.

Speaker 86 by the judge to be defamation because there had already been a jury finding that that kind of statement is defamatory in the other case that she brought against against Trump.

Speaker 16 So the only question he really gave to the jury was, how much does this nude denial entitle Eugene Carroll to?

Speaker 18 And they said, $83 million because he's such a bad defamer.

Speaker 59 He needs to be taught a lesson on how he never can say he didn't do this ever again.

Speaker 35 The whole thing is so absurd as though when you're a man accused, you have a legal obligation not to say, I didn't do it.

Speaker 64 because that's defamatory toward the plaintiff.

Speaker 20 And that once a civil jury, not even a criminal jury, a civil jury jury has said, we think you did do it.

Speaker 17 You can never deny it again.

Speaker 29 Or it's defamatory.

Speaker 13 It's like become law that you did do it.

Speaker 18 It's just the whole thing is so nuts.

Speaker 93 So Trump appealed.

Speaker 22 The one verdict is going to undo the other.

Speaker 16 If he undoes the $5 million fining of sexual assault and defamation, the $83 million is going to go away too, because that one is based on the finding of the jury in the smaller award.

Speaker 39 Okay, so he's appealing.

Speaker 16 Now he appealed to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals.

Speaker 85 They said, no dice, we're not persuaded.

Speaker 88 And now he has until September 11th to file appeal before the U.S.

Speaker 25 Supreme Court.

Speaker 24 He's just sought leave for a two-week, sorry, two-month extension on that because he's a busy man.

Speaker 2 So we'll see whether the court gives him leave for a little bit longer to file an appeal.

Speaker 16 But it does appear Trump's getting ready to take this up to the U.S.

Speaker 13 Supreme Court.

Speaker 18 And the issues, you know, Glenn,

Speaker 42 They're not that dissimilar in some ways from what Harvey Weinstein raised through our pal Arthur Idala.

Speaker 34 And he did successfully get Arthur Idala's New York conviction overturned and got him a new trial.

Speaker 20 Didn't go that great, although he did better.

Speaker 75 He did better for Harvey at the second trial, because the New York State Court of Appeals, our highest court, did say you can't introduce all these other women in there.

Speaker 32 You can't like, this is about the women who took the stand and said Harvey did X to me.

Speaker 32 This is not about a panoply of other women who aren't making those claims and allowing that stuff in really was prejudicial to Harvey.

Speaker 34 And this is one of the arguments Trump is making that, but it's in federal court.

Speaker 79 It's not in New York state court.

Speaker 98 He's saying, among other things, this verdict was messed up.

Speaker 16 My trial was messed up because you let other women come in and take a stand against me, thus poisoning my jury in an unfairly prejudicial way against me.

Speaker 2 Your thoughts on it?

Speaker 74 I saw yesterday where you commented on the ejection of the journalist Michael Tracy from that Epstein press conference.

Speaker 74 And Michael Tracy is a, you know, yeah, totally. And, you know, Michael Tracy is a common guest on our show.
He guest hosts our show. He's a friend of mine.

Speaker 74 I haven't agreed with everything he said on, he's done on Epstein, but I'm really glad there's somebody there who's willing to kind of say, look, nobody's going to defend pedophilia.

Speaker 74 Nobody's going to defend Jeffrey Epstein. Like, no one wants to defend Harvey Weinstein.

Speaker 74 But at the end of the day, if claims are being made that are so far beyond the evidence because of mob justice or kind of hysteria, it's crucial that that be reigned in or at least it be questioned.

Speaker 74 And for the crime of questioning, the fact that one of the key Epstein, you know quote-unquote survivors actually lied continuously and ended up having to retract it including against alan dershowes he was forcibly removed by uh the people who were running the press conference even though they invited journalists to come and ask questions she told me

Speaker 22 was completely sound and it was a totally fair question there's zero chance he should have been ejected and actually they should have answered it

Speaker 74 And they still should answer it. And there's a lot of other interesting questions that he actually has been raising about some of these people who are being called survivors.

Speaker 74 Now, I only bring that up, even though you didn't ask me about it, because

Speaker 97 I actually have some questions.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but let's have that segment.

Speaker 74 Let's definitely do that. Let's absolutely do that.

Speaker 74 But I bring it up just because I think what courts are starting to realize, including courts that are not very sympathetic to Trump, I mean, he just had this big legal victory in the intermediate court, the appellate court in New York State, obviously not pro-Trump, where they said this, you know, verdict and this punishment that in the Letitia James case that she brought against the Trump organization, against Trump was wildly excessive.

Speaker 74 And, you know, I think the same thing with the Eugene Carroll case, like that definitely, I mean, you know, Megan, when I practice law, I think it's true of you too. I practiced civil litigation.

Speaker 74 I didn't, except on a few occasions, litigate criminal cases. And I never once had seen a party to a lawsuit lose and then come out and say, I lost because I was actually, I did what I was accused of.

Speaker 74 They always say, I lost, but it was unjust. I lost because, but it was unfair.
I lost even though I didn't do it.

Speaker 74 So essentially, what you're really doing if you're being sued in a civil litigation and you lose and you continue to insist you shouldn't have lost because you didn't actually do what you're accused of is you're basically calling the plaintiff a liar.

Speaker 74 But I've never seen anybody be sued for defamation for contesting the outcome of a civil suit, let alone have imposed on them tens of millions of dollars in punishment and punitive awards because simply because they deny it and they say, no, I was falsely accused.

Speaker 74 A lot of things got invented for Donald Trump in terms of how the law works.

Speaker 74 That case in Manhattan by Alvin Bragg, never in a zillion years would have even been brought, let alone as a felony had it been on everyone other than Donald Trump.

Speaker 74 What we're starting to see is a recognition, like once that hysteria passed, once that kind of moral panic about Trump passed, that so much of what was done under the guise of the law was in fact a complete bastardization of the law, which is so ironic that these same people who did it are the ones constantly accusing the Trump Justice Department of doing that, even when there's evidence that there's actually criminality, like for John Bolton or Lisa Cook.

Speaker 76 Totally.

Speaker 44 All right, now I want to continue this discussion, but we have to take a break.

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Speaker 1 At the University of Arizona, we believe that everyone is born with wonder. That thing that says, I will not accept this world that is.

Speaker 4 While it drives us to create what could be,

Speaker 4 that world can't wait to see what you'll do.

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Speaker 17 So Eugene Carroll, she's won this, you know, basically $90 million against Donald Trump, and she's been very obnoxious about it ever since.

Speaker 42 Here's exhibit one when she went on Rachel Maddow after the big award, Sod 18.

Speaker 109 Yes, help me.

Speaker 9 I had such

Speaker 109 great ideas for all the good I'm going to do with this money. First thing, Rachel, you and I are going to go shopping.
Rachel, what do you want?

Speaker 51 Penthouse?

Speaker 9 It's yours, Rachel. Penthouse and France?

Speaker 109 You want France? You want to go fishing in France?

Speaker 108 Although, if me fishing in France could do something for women's rights, I would take the hint. You know, I would obviously

Speaker 9 take one for the team.

Speaker 10 Oh, my God, so ridiculous.

Speaker 22 Okay, Rachel Maddell's all about women's rights until it comes to the trans issue, in which case, she's completely on the other side.

Speaker 28 So you can take a seat.

Speaker 48 So Eugene Carroll not only is out there celebrating all this money, like, do you want France?

Speaker 77 I'll buy you France.

Speaker 48 But she now is going to be launching this documentary

Speaker 97 that she says, it's called Ask Eugene.

Speaker 48 It did premiere at the Telluride Film Festival.

Speaker 35 And Variety did an interview with her on it, in which she says she's really hoping her documentary will finish off Donald Trump.

Speaker 16 It's obviously personal between the two of them.

Speaker 59 And here is Eugene Carroll just yesterday?

Speaker 11 It's Wednesday.

Speaker 77 Is it just Western? Well, okay.

Speaker 42 On Back to the New York Times, they have something called the Modern Love Podcast.

Speaker 22 She sat with them and listened to what she blamed Donald Trump for.

Speaker 48 She's gone nuts.

Speaker 85 SOT 16.

Speaker 109 Just as a matter of course, the last sentence was, and I never had sex again.

Speaker 60 It's the final line of your amazing piece.

Speaker 109 And I just, because it was so much a part of my life, but to put it down was amazing for me. And Lori immediately calls me on that.
What? You never, what? Yeah.

Speaker 106 Why?

Speaker 109 Then she started saying, why, why?

Speaker 109 So

Speaker 109 I came up with reasons, you know. Well, I'm old and well, you know, and oh, well, you know, so only one of them was the real reason.

Speaker 9 And what was that?

Speaker 43 Donald Trump.

Speaker 56 Okay.

Speaker 2 So obviously I'm being facetious saying she's gone nuts.

Speaker 36 What I actually believe, Glenn,

Speaker 31 is

Speaker 65 she's obsessed.

Speaker 76 Like,

Speaker 68 I think she's obsessed because she never even mentioned Trump. She didn't come forward during the Me Too movement, you know, when it was in full flower.

Speaker 22 And then finally, she did belatedly. And then they changed the law in part to help her bring this case.

Speaker 78 But like, for 30 years, she said nothing.

Speaker 16 Then when she had a book to promote and Trump was running for president, then suddenly she's like, oh, this happened to me.

Speaker 18 And now she wants us to believe that for 30 years she didn't have sex because of this alleged incident, that she couldn't even remember when it happened, even what year it happened in.

Speaker 72 I mean, these, to me, are obvious lies that are being like

Speaker 38 reworked in her head, like her whole life narrative now revolves around him because she's made him into such a boogeyman and also he's paralleled her paralleled her into

Speaker 102 fame.

Speaker 64 You know, she's relevant and she's 81 and she's loving it.

Speaker 33 Your thoughts.

Speaker 74 And Rich, I mean, here's the thing, like, just going back to that Richel Mattel clip that you played at the start, I totally get that people who go through bad things and traumas like sometimes use humor as a way of coping with it.

Speaker 74 I don't begrudge anybody that. I'm not saying like something bad happens to you.
It means you walk around for the rest of your life like totally miserable and humorless and grim or whatever. But

Speaker 74 if you are actually so traumatized by what Donald Trump did to you that

Speaker 74 you sue him and you convince a jury that you deserve millions of dollars in damages,

Speaker 74 you do not go on television immediately after and start giggling as though you've won the lottery unless that's really actually how you see it.

Speaker 74 I mean, there was no seriousness at all to what she was saying. It was a celebration.
It was like, ha ha, Rachel, we got one over on him.

Speaker 74 Let's use his money to go on a trip to France where I'll buy you a penthouse.

Speaker 74 Even though Rachel Maddow already has multiple penthouses and goes on all the trips she wants to France, you know, it was like this kind of giddy celebration.

Speaker 74 It was like the kind of way that someone speaks if they kind of impose some sort of trick or deceit and got away with it.

Speaker 74 And now they're just giggling with all the cash that they're throwing on themselves in their in their apartment. It was very much had that vibe.

Speaker 74 Like, if, and if you're saying like, hey, what I'm doing here is I'm standing up for other women who had been silenced, even though they too were sexually assaulted and abused to the point where they propressed it or couldn't talk about it for years.

Speaker 74 This is not the kind of demeanor that you would engage in.

Speaker 74 That demeanor is for somebody who was on a political mission to center themselves and promote themselves and make themselves rich and famous and got away with all of it.

Speaker 74 And then was on a very political program celebrating it. That's, that's the first thing.

Speaker 74 The second thing is, I mean, I don't want to like, judge too definitively with these sort of things, but she sounded like her voice was slurred. Like she wasn't very coherent in that video.

Speaker 74 Yeah, but you play almost like it sounded a little bit like she would have been drinking. Again, I'm speculating, but that's what it sounded like to me.
And

Speaker 74 yes, like, even if you believe everything that she claims happened to her, it was like a very quick

Speaker 74 incident. Like, I'm not trying to minimize it, but I'm saying, like, even if everything that happened is what she claims happened,

Speaker 74 I do not believe that that means that you never have sex again for the rest of your life. Like, unless you have vested this with some kind of like wildly inflated importance,

Speaker 74 I just, I don't believe that. I just don't believe it.

Speaker 74 And as you said, her identity has become this and it's became a gravy train, not just for her, but for a lot of people got very rich, you know, posturing as some, as Trump's victims or as, you know, Trump's enemies.

Speaker 74 I mean, this is a gravy train for a huge number of people. And she was one of the people like kind of driving the train and benefiting most from it.

Speaker 43 Yeah, I completely agree with you.

Speaker 16 I mean, like, I don't know why Eugene Carroll chose not to have have sex or didn't have the opportunity to have sex for 30 years, but there is zero chance it was because of Donald Trump.

Speaker 21 I mean, she's a very bizarre person.

Speaker 29 She was doing this column that had, you know, a lot of like gender issues in it and sex questions in it.

Speaker 32 Like, she was kind of very focused on sex.

Speaker 19 Maybe she just got turned off from it.

Speaker 87 I have no idea, but she did this video with Elle where she showed off her house and like her pets.

Speaker 32 It was very strange.

Speaker 59 I would submit to the jury of the Megan Kelly show.

Speaker 15 This more explains why E.G.

Speaker 69 Carroll hasn't been getting some than Donald Trump does.

Speaker 86 Here it is, SOT 19.

Speaker 109 I like to stay up late,

Speaker 109 I like to sleep late, and I like to live like 90 in between. I get up around noon and I stagger outside at the store and I throw open my arms.
I thank God I don't have children.

Speaker 109 I worry at night when I'm in bed because you know a line from me

Speaker 109 can change your life.

Speaker 109 Now, whether it changes for the better or for the worse, I don't know. I could not answer the questions coming into the ASCII gene column if I was in New York City.

Speaker 109 You can't think in New York if you're dating 16 people, which I would be doing if I were in New York. I call it the Mouse House because some very distinguished mice live here.

Speaker 109 Kahneman lives in the kitchen, Taberski lives in the bedroom. On the door are the lists of my dogs: Marky,

Speaker 109 Fortuna de la Spunky, Heidi, Tits, Bloody, and Hepburn. What is the best piece of advice I've ever given? What a horrible question to ask an advice dog.
Oh my God.

Speaker 109 Eat,

Speaker 109 drink,

Speaker 109 and be merry. That's it.

Speaker 24 She has a dog named Tits and a cat named Vagina.

Speaker 98 I don't know.

Speaker 22 Maybe some guys would like that with all the the cats and the mice and the weird wig and the

Speaker 49 self-isolation out in the middle of nowhere with her bizarre trailer labeled the mouse house.

Speaker 97 I'm going to say for most hetero guys, it would be a no.

Speaker 16 You know, you and I both have to speculate on this front, Glenn, but that's going to take a stab.

Speaker 74 Yeah, I was about to say I do not profess to be the authority on what

Speaker 74 straight men find attractive in women, but having known a lot of straight men, I even have like a lot of straight friends who are straight men. This is not my image of what attracts a lot of people.

Speaker 74 She's like out totally crazy, but like not even in a charming way. And even like the background score they're playing kind of mocks her as she's doing it.
Like, this is just like a batty woman. Um,

Speaker 74 and you know, I think like people who are off-key or kind of odd or idiosyncratic can be attractive, but that's what I mean. Like, she just seems like crazy in a way that is very off-putting.

Speaker 74 The way she looks, the way she presents herself who could even listen to that voice let alone what's coming out of her mouth so I do believe now that she hasn't had sex in 30 years but I even doubt more now than I did like 10 minutes ago that the reason was was because of whatever happened with Donald Trump and that bloomingdales I don't know what the Supreme Court's going to do I

Speaker 16 tend to think they're not going to want to take it I don't think they want to get involved in this one they know that's going to be a big blow to the president but this is one in his individual capacity it's not has nothing to do with him being president he's actually being represented on it by his personal lawyers.

Speaker 88 I just think that they're not going to have to take this, so why would they want to?

Speaker 9 But you never know.

Speaker 75 If they do take it, it's very good news for Trump.

Speaker 86 And I do think they've got the grounds, if they're bold enough, to overturn it.

Speaker 48 And then she won't be buying Rachel Maddow any penthouses.

Speaker 16 Just because whenever we do this story, I must show this deposition clip.

Speaker 36 It's really the greatest deposition clip of all time.

Speaker 35 Speaking of the people who got rich off of Eugene Carroll, her lawyer, Roberta Kaplan,

Speaker 16 she cross-examined Trump at deposition about the famous Access Hollywood tape.

Speaker 30 You can grab women by the P-word.

Speaker 79 And when you're a celebrity or star, they let you get away with it.

Speaker 86 And here is Trump in 17 at that depot.

Speaker 5 I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet.
Just kiss. I don't even wait.
And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.

Speaker 5 That's what you said, Correct.

Speaker 110 Well, historically, that's true with stars.

Speaker 5 It's true with stars that they can grab women by the pussy?

Speaker 110 Well, that's what it's, if you look over the last million years, I guess that's been largely true. Not always, but largely true.

Speaker 110 Unfortunately or fortunately.

Speaker 68 Or fortunately.

Speaker 74 I mean, this is Trump's superpower. Go ahead.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 51 No, it's just the way it's been over the last million years.

Speaker 89 It's just a documented fact, Glenn.

Speaker 74 I mean, I think this is like, yeah, like Trump is, you know, like a scholar of history.

Speaker 74 And one of the things that he has specialized in is the prerogative of stars and what they can do with women without asking. And so he has concluded based on his long decade of scholarship.

Speaker 74 No, but I think like, you know, this is Trump's superpower is that

Speaker 74 he will say things that not only most people think, but does have an obvious ring of truth to it.

Speaker 74 I mean, everybody, you know, Henry Kissinger once put it far less crudely, but, you know, he said power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.

Speaker 74 Like that's, you know, because Henry Kissinger was not exactly known for his great looks or his eloquent behavior, but he had women lined up around the, you know, corner always for him because of his status and power.

Speaker 74 And this is just part of how human biology and human instinct works. I'm not saying that that makes it right.

Speaker 74 I don't think Trump there was saying that that's what makes it right, but he is observing what clearly is, even though you're not supposed to say it, you're supposed to pretend otherwise, an actual fact of how society functions between the sexes and in fact, always has.

Speaker 74 And there are tons of examples that prove that.

Speaker 74 It's just so trumpy in the way he says it in such a casual way, not caring in the slightest that you're not supposed to and almost relishing the fact that he knows you're not supposed to, but is doing it anyway.

Speaker 74 And there's always like a certain element of truth to it.

Speaker 107 And to actually add,

Speaker 21 or fortunately,

Speaker 20 unfortunately, that's just the way it's always been.

Speaker 54 Or fortunately, it's actually not so bad for the people like me who are the stars.

Speaker 101 I'm not making a judgment on it.

Speaker 74 I'm not making a judgment on it. In fact, I kind of benefited from it.

Speaker 104 Yeah, it is what it is.

Speaker 107 I'm sorry, but ever since I saw that, I just died. I laughed so hard.

Speaker 30 And because we're on it and why not, here's the second favorite clip from that same deposition.

Speaker 5 When you said in that video that Ms. Leeds would not be your first choice,

Speaker 5 you were referring to her physical looks, correct?

Speaker 110 Just the overall.

Speaker 110 I look at her, I see her, I hear what she says, whatever. You wouldn't be a choice of mine either, to be honest with you.
I hope you're not insulted.

Speaker 110 I would not, under any circumstances, have any interest in you.

Speaker 110 I'm honest when I say it.

Speaker 110 She, I would not have any interest in.

Speaker 110 Like,

Speaker 96 it's so classic Trump.

Speaker 13 And yet, he knows he's being insulting, but he's all you he's totally being honest.

Speaker 28 By the way, I think Roberta Kaplan is a lesbian who has no interest in Trump either.

Speaker 96 But it's just so classic Trump.

Speaker 67 It's it's and as you put it, it kind of is one of the things that made America fall in love with him.

Speaker 74 Totally. I mean, look at the people we were presented with for so long.
You know, they don't even seem human.

Speaker 74 Like I always go back to Kamala Harris as kind of the ultimate example of somebody who is just like, I'm sure Kamala Harris has something inside of her that's alive.

Speaker 74 I should take that back. I'm not sure, but I presume it.

Speaker 74 But like when she presents herself in public, it's totally dead. Like there's just like the words don't connect to anything.

Speaker 74 You know, you can like see the script of the consultants that she's reading from and memorizing that come out of her mouth, and there's no vibrancy to it. And that's true of most politicians.

Speaker 74 And the ones who have political talent, like Bill Clinton, whatever you think of him, and Barack Obama and Donald Trump, what makes them have that talent is their ability to kind of stir things in people, like to make them feel something, to speak in a way that makes people think they're being authentic, even though the case of Bill Clinton, he was a complete charlatan.

Speaker 74 He had that ability. Trump's superpower is that is who Trump is.
That thing that Trump said there is what everybody I know who knows Trump well will tell you is how he speaks in private.

Speaker 74 It's not even crude or malicious. It's just like very kind of, yeah, that's how it is.
That's, that's what I think.

Speaker 42 And he's totally.

Speaker 106 Go ahead.

Speaker 74 Yeah.

Speaker 74 Yeah, I do like in a lot of cases, you know, it's not really a persuasive defense to sexual assault or rape to say, oh, I don't even find her pretty, because a lot of times rape is not about sexual attraction, but about power and other kinds of warped men.

Speaker 74 But in the case of Trump, you know, he has been notorious for, you know, womanizing with a very specific kind of woman.

Speaker 74 And it's like, he's almost insulted that he's being accused of trying to have sexual interactions with a woman he considers unworthy from his perspective. And I think it requires given who Trump is.

Speaker 88 Exactly. That deposition clip, the second one was about Jessica Leeds, who claimed that he groped around an airport.

Speaker 66 I've interviewed her.

Speaker 16 And also, she was allowed to testify at the trial against him by Eugene Carroll.

Speaker 67 So we'll see.

Speaker 28 You know, in New York State, they passed this law that gave a one-year window to alleged sexual assault victims to bring up claims from 30 years ago, which was just a terrible idea.

Speaker 16 There's a reason we had statute of limitations on these claims. It's very hard for a man to defend himself 30 years after the fact.

Speaker 97 Look what Brett Kavanaugh had to go through with Christine Blasey Ford.

Speaker 16 Thankfully, he was a future Supreme Court justice in the making, so he had all his little date books, even from when he was a teenager or a 20-year-old.

Speaker 12 But my point is that the whole system was so unfair.

Speaker 17 And to make Trump pay this $90 million judgment against this very bizarre, extremely kooky, and I would submit, untrustworthy lady Seems nuts, especially given that it was a New York jury that hated Trump.

Speaker 74 I was talking earlier about how so much of the law was just not only twisted, but in many cases, reinvented and fabricated with no real purpose other than to impose punishments on or even lead to the imprisonment of Donald Trump.

Speaker 74 And this is, there's so many examples, and this clearly was one of them, which is why I just find it so infuriating when Democrats stand up and say, the greatest threat that Trump poses to our democracy is that he weaponizes the law against his political enemies when that's all that was done for eight years non-stop.

Speaker 11 Yes.

Speaker 28 Okay, so on the subject of nuttiness around Donald Trump, I have time to squeeze this in before the break.

Speaker 28 Joy Reed and MSNBCer Katie Fang had a discussion on Katie Fang's podcast, and this is what came out of it.

Speaker 2 Look at this, Sat 32.

Speaker 112 He's got these magical doctors who claim that he was shot in the ear, but his ear, I guess, grew bad. He had a duplo bandage on one minute, no bandage bandage the next.

Speaker 112 We can't get a medical record from this alleged assassination.

Speaker 59 He was supposedly shot.

Speaker 112 We have nothing. We've got nothing.

Speaker 9 Where's he at?

Speaker 47 Where are the investigative records? One day he slapped his maxi pad on his ear.

Speaker 81 The next day, the ear is totally fine.

Speaker 112 It's fine.

Speaker 112 And I remember being in mainstream media, where we both used to work, saying, isn't it odd that we've never asked for his medical records?

Speaker 45 And I got in trouble for that, right?

Speaker 112 So you're not allowed to even say, isn't that weird? We have more records. I know more about the attempted Ford assassination, Henry,

Speaker 112 President Ford, than I do about Donald Trump and the Darrell Ford thing happened when I was a child. We're getting nothing.
And the mainstream media isn't demanding his medical records.

Speaker 112 They're not demanding anything. They're terrified of this man.
And now that people are speculating that he might have died,

Speaker 59 we only get that online.

Speaker 112 But mainstream media is acting like everything's fine. He seems fine to me.

Speaker 56 Okay.

Speaker 63 Joe Biden's FBI said Trump Trump was struck by a bullet.

Speaker 36 Joe Biden's FBI said Trump was struck by a bullet in the ear.

Speaker 69 Guess that's not enough for them.

Speaker 31 Also, his doctor came out and said he was shot in the ear.

Speaker 16 And this is what I did to patch up the wound.

Speaker 38 I don't, what other record do they want to see?

Speaker 49 What his blood pressure was when he was in the hospital for it?

Speaker 16 Like they refuse to accept reality, Glenn.

Speaker 48 They can't accept reality because the moment was so heroic for one Donald Trump.

Speaker 74 I just realized now how much I miss Joy, like in a warped way, because it's, she's really, I mean, a lot of people on MSNBC deliver inane garbage, but she really goes the extra mile in a way that you're just kind of like, even though you know her, she's shocked.

Speaker 74 But, like, you know, at the end of the day, yes, we should know, but like, let's indulge her, her, her conspiracy theory for a second. There was an assassin.
There were bullets flying around.

Speaker 74 There were people in the audience who were murdered.

Speaker 74 And even if, like, whatever the theory is that like a piece of the teleprompter broke and was active as a blade and like cut his ear, the fact is that bullets were flying around.

Speaker 74 He did end up bleeding profusely from the ear and stood up fearlessly in an amazing moment and pretty much demanded that the Secret Service let him say, let's fight.

Speaker 74 So what would it even really change? Like I get JFK conspiracy theories, like it matters who shot JFK, but of course a bullet went through Trump's ear.

Speaker 74 But even if it didn't, like, why would people lie about that? What would it prove? What would it

Speaker 74 and also she's blaming the media for not running headlines that Trump was dead she's like online independent media we're courageous we do it but the media pretended he was still alive and the nerve

Speaker 16 should be like why isn't why isn't the media investigating this this health issue this alleged health issue you know this is something we should look into around the Donald Trump okay

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Speaker 16 Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show.

Speaker 12 Glenn Greenwald, host of System Update on Rumble, is back with me now.

Speaker 28 Glenn, we mentioned it, so we might as well do it here.

Speaker 22 There was this hearing yesterday held by Thomas Massey and Rokana, a Republican, yes, but known these days chiefly as the Trump antagonist amongst the GOP.

Speaker 16 And then Rokana is a Democrat, with alleged Epstein victims out on the steps of the Capitol saber-rattling about how they were going to start naming names and, you know, they were going to provide their own Epstein list.

Speaker 20 Later, we saw

Speaker 28 Massey say, okay, the ladies are going to get sued if they actually say these names, but we can't get sued if we say them pursuant to the speech and debate clause on the floor of the U.S.

Speaker 32 Congress.

Speaker 48 So that's how we're going to handle it.

Speaker 85 We're going to like repeat their information.

Speaker 17 Here,

Speaker 60 woman after woman stood up and, you know, gave disturbing testimonials about Jeffrey Epstein,

Speaker 2 stuff we've basically heard before.

Speaker 18 And then there was this strange moment that I do think speaks to a broader problem in the whole Epstein case.

Speaker 46 that came to light thanks to Michael Tracy, independent journalist who you mentioned, who stood up and asked about the best-known Epstein accuser, Virginia Duffrey,

Speaker 22 maiden name was Roberts,

Speaker 19 and got shut down.

Speaker 86 Here is that moment from yesterday in SOP 23.

Speaker 101 Yeah, so you represented Virginia Roberts for

Speaker 101 years.

Speaker 101 She eventually had to repent the allegations that she made against Alan Dershowitz. She alleged that

Speaker 101 she's going to answer them. All right, next question.

Speaker 52 Next question. Thank you.

Speaker 93 Why is it that she said that?

Speaker 58 Yeah, no, we're not answering your question.

Speaker 101 Anybody else?

Speaker 113 To your question about

Speaker 113 the allegations, there's a simple answer. Release the files.
Let the American public decide. Instead of harassing,

Speaker 113 instead of,

Speaker 113 I gave you your say.

Speaker 101 She's a prominent individual, among others.

Speaker 59 You're hired by Dershowitz.

Speaker 101 And then how do you have been hired by other counselors?

Speaker 114 You know, even

Speaker 101 hugely talacious allegations against the whole thing. You've been heard.
You've been heard. Couldn't you tell the public about this? You've been heard.

Speaker 113 And even Alan Dershowitz, even Alan Dershowitz says, release the files. Release the files.
That is the answer, and that's what we're here for.

Speaker 11 Okay, so what does that moment mean to you?

Speaker 16 Because then they threw out Michael Tracy from the presser.

Speaker 20 He got forcibly ejected from the event

Speaker 44 for that question, for being too much of a pest on some of the credibility problems, in particular of star witness number one, who has since passed.

Speaker 74 right. And just to be clear, this was not, he wasn't there trespassing.
He was invited by Rokana to come and ask questions and to participate.

Speaker 74 It was intended to be a press conference, which means you open it up to journalists.

Speaker 74 Not that there's journalists who are going to blindly recite whatever you want them to say, but even journalists who are going to do their job and pose questions to you that might undercut the things you want the public to believe, or at least demand answers to them.

Speaker 74 And, you know, look, I've known Michael a long time. He's cantankerous and can be, you know, sort sort of very persistent, one might say obnoxious.

Speaker 74 But let's face it, that is a behavioral trait that a lot of good journalists possess because sometimes it requires that, you know, like you have to be kind of aggressive.

Speaker 74 But in this case, he was behaving himself perfectly well. That question was respectfully asked.
It was a premise that was completely truthful.

Speaker 74 And before it was even done, those women started saying, we're not answering that. Ignore him.
Ignore him. So,

Speaker 74 and as you say, it wasn't just that they refused to answer the question.

Speaker 74 It was that he was then physically and forcibly removed, expelled from a press conference for the crime of asking an uncomfortable question, which I do think calls into question the credibility of what a lot of these people were saying.

Speaker 74 Because

Speaker 20 is this a search for the truth or isn't it?

Speaker 31 Go ahead.

Speaker 74 Exactly. And like, I think the problem with the Epstein case has become that, at least from my perspective, is that there are important and interesting questions.
Like, how did somebody

Speaker 74 so extremely wealthy, how did he become that wealthy?

Speaker 74 But also, how did someone so completely connected to the world elite continue to be that even after he was forced to plead guilty to crimes, felony crimes for soliciting minors for prostitution, usually a crime that would result in your instant expulsion from decent society and a far lengthier jail term than he had?

Speaker 74 He got a very sweetheart deal.

Speaker 74 What kind of ties did he have to foreign governments or domestic governments? These questions are legitimate and have never been answered.

Speaker 74 On the other side, though, this case has been wildly sensationalized, including by a lot of people who are at the top level of the Trump administration, who out of power over the last four years spent a lot of money, a lot of time, making a lot of money, pounding the table, accusing the Biden administration of concealing these documents to cover up very powerful predators.

Speaker 74 And so you sort of have these two extremes competing with one another where the truth lies in between.

Speaker 74 And I think the Epstein case has kind of become this proxy or stand-in

Speaker 74 for the very valid distrust that people have harbored for a long time about what globalists and what global elites really are doing, what, you know, the kind of lives they lead, the complete detachment that they have from the common citizen.

Speaker 74 But you still want it to be grounded in the truth. You still do want journalists, even when it's difficult.

Speaker 74 You know how many times Michael Tracy gets accused of, you know, raising skepticism because he's a pedophile and wanting to protect pedophiles, which is absurd.

Speaker 74 You want people kind of always, you know, pushing back a little bit and saying, wait a minute, before the mob gets gets too carried away, let's look at what the real evidence is.

Speaker 74 And for the crime of doing that, he was kicked out of a press conference, the supposed point of which was to disclose the truth.

Speaker 69 I'm sorry, but it was very wrong.

Speaker 92 Like anyone who is a legit, quote, survivor or victim would be able to answer those hard questions, would have no problem answering those hard questions.

Speaker 24 And the fact that Virginia Duffrey has died does not mean we cannot question her story.

Speaker 29 She herself admitted in her settlement with Alan when she dropped her claims against him that she may have misremembered what actually happened in that case because he essentially forced that admission from her by providing all sorts of actual evidence, like, you know, plane tickets and so on, that proved he was nowhere near Epstein or his island, et cetera, on the dates she said he allegedly had sex with her.

Speaker 41 And so, in my opinion, she got away with far too much.

Speaker 27 She actually should have been forced to pay some sort of a penalty for what she did to Alan.

Speaker 66 And I don't know who else she lied about.

Speaker 16 I believe she was an Epstein victim.

Speaker 93 I actually do believe that.

Speaker 64 But beyond that, I can't say.

Speaker 16 I know that Virginia Duffrey lied.

Speaker 30 She definitely lied a fair amount.

Speaker 58 So, totally fair question.

Speaker 49 And this is like, it's just spun to this very salemy kind of place.

Speaker 39 And everyone should have a big asterisk on everything they hear in this case.

Speaker 57 Like, at this point, it feels like one large manipulation.

Speaker 42 We'll do our best here to make sure that doesn't happen thanks to us or our cameras.

Speaker 30 Okay, moving on on the media front.

Speaker 63 I've got to ask you about this report.

Speaker 16 If there's one person who you disagree with vehemently on Israel, I think it's fair to say it's Barry Weiss.

Speaker 16 And you're a friend of mine, and she's a friend of mine, but I think this is an interesting thing that's just happened.

Speaker 24 She's been reportedly, Dylan Byers of Puck News is a scoop, this is his scoop, reportedly been offered

Speaker 68 between $100 and $200 million for the free press.

Speaker 77 This is how Puck is reporting it.

Speaker 28 David Ellison, the son of Larry Ellison, and they just bought Paramount and CBS.

Speaker 48 David, the son, is only like 41.

Speaker 16 He made an offer for the free press.

Speaker 106 It's expected to be well above the site's most recent $100 million valuation, but well below the $200 million figure that was recently floated in the Financial Times.

Speaker 42 That was an absurd ask, writes Still and Buyers.

Speaker 84 The free press does $15 million in annual subscription revenue, and Barry's politically charged content makes it hard to scale the advertising business.

Speaker 111 Plus, there's no tech stack.

Speaker 61 It's all on sub stack. Either way, it will land Weiss a king's ransom just a little over five years after her dramatic departure from the New York Times.

Speaker 22 The deal's not done yet, of course, but as a source with knowledge of the negotiations told me this afternoon, it's on the one-yard line.

Speaker 34 As part of the deal, he reports, I'm told that David Ellison plans to give Barry Weiss a role at CBS News that would, among other things, task his fellow millennial with guiding the editorial direction of the division, the news division.

Speaker 12 Barry's avowedly pro-Israel and anti-woke worldview.

Speaker 22 You disagree with her on that first one, but agree with her on the second one.

Speaker 32 You're not a woke person.

Speaker 44 Not to mention her broadly shit-kicking anti-establishment disposition would inevitably inspire blowback from various corners of the newsroom and could dramatically change the editorial posture and reputation of one of the most storied and certainly self-important institutions in American journalism.

Speaker 75 For David, that's likely part of the point.

Speaker 46 Your thoughts on all of this, Glenn?

Speaker 74 There's a lot going on here.

Speaker 74 I mean, I definitely do have extremely vehement disagreements with Barry on Israel, to put that mildly, but I also have had interactions with Barry personally.

Speaker 74 And I say what everyone who I've ever known has known her says, which she's a very like charming,

Speaker 74 nice person. Like, it's very hard to dislike Barry personally.
So

Speaker 74 for me, at least, it's

Speaker 9 right about that. It's extremely bright.

Speaker 74 And I actually wrote one of the very first articles when she was hired from the New York Times by the Wall Street Journal because all the liberals were enraged that Brett Stevens was being put on the op-ed page.

Speaker 74 And I was like, Brett Stevens, he's just like a normal stand run-of-the-mill conservative neocons, but Barry is an extremely shrewd person. She understands how the discourse works.

Speaker 74 And I guarantee you, she'll be the more consequential hire there, which I do think Barry is extremely shrewd. And she has built the free press into something successful.

Speaker 74 The issue for me is, you know, and I'm also a huge, you know, proponent of like new media and clearing out the old corporate media generation.

Speaker 74 I mean, that's what my career has been based on is I grew out of new media and vlogs and all of that. So I'm always happy to see that.

Speaker 74 I think the issue here, though, is that you cannot ignore the politics here.

Speaker 74 The previous owner of Paramount and CBS was Sherry Redstone, the widow of Sumner Redstone. And Sherry Redstone said after October 7th, her only interest became defending Israel.

Speaker 74 She didn't care about journalism anymore. She lost interest in Paramount and CBS, and that's why she decided to sell it.
She's selling it to Larry Ellison's son, which basically is what he is.

Speaker 74 I mean, that's his primary accomplishment. Larry Ellison is the former, the founder of Oracle, extremely successful, one of the 10 richest people on the planet.

Speaker 74 So he has, you know, billions of dollars to play with. His son does.
And he's buying Paramount and CBS News.

Speaker 74 And the issue far and away that has been at the top of the agenda for the Ellisons, Larry Ellison and David Ellison, when it comes to politics or philanthropy, is Israel.

Speaker 74 And there has been controversy since October 7th about some of the stories 60 Minutes ran, supposedly too sympathetic to Gaza, too critical of Israel.

Speaker 74 And now he wants to take Barry Weiss, who, again, I have respect for her accomplishments and success, but is what she has built anywhere near worth $100 million?

Speaker 74 Go look at how many people listen to her podcast or how many people watch her, her videos on YouTube. It is a tiny footprint.

Speaker 74 And to place her at the top of some kind, in some kind of like editorial or ideological enforcement role at CBS when she so aligns with David Ellison on the issue that's of most of greatest importance to both of them is something that concerns me because I really believe in a media that is kind of divorced from clear-cut agendas where the reporting is shaped by that.

Speaker 74 I have no jealousy of Barry. I've done very well in journalism.
I'm thrilled for her that she has. I really like her wife, Nellie, as well.
I like both of them.

Speaker 74 But I do think there are things to question in this deal in terms of exactly why it's happening and exactly what it will entail in terms of Barry's influence over CBS News in particular.

Speaker 87 That's very interesting.

Speaker 2 My own feeling on it when I saw was it's like Barry's doing well with the free press.

Speaker 32 She's got a lot of investors who she's doing a good job for, and they'll probably take a hefty amount of that money.

Speaker 37 But to me, this feels like somebody comes up to you and says, I've got this beautiful ship I'd love for you to captain.

Speaker 39 It's absolutely gorgeous.

Speaker 16 You might even call it unsinkable. It's going to set sail on the Atlantic.
We're going to head north into the Arctic area.

Speaker 20 There may be a couple of icebergs.

Speaker 16 I'm sure you'll be fine.

Speaker 75 Here's the wheel.

Speaker 56 Like,

Speaker 18 why would you go into mainstream media right now? Like, it's dead. It's dying.

Speaker 20 It absolutely is on track for the iceberg.

Speaker 22 I just don't understand the allure, and I really don't understand the allure to go to a television network, which is not Barry's background at all.

Speaker 16 And it's for me, and I really love Barry and Nellie too.

Speaker 14 I worried they're going to eat her alive because CBS is among the worst when it comes to being insular.

Speaker 96 Like, you have to be raised at CBS to be respected by the CBS people. Ask Katie Couric,

Speaker 29 if you don't believe me.

Speaker 50 Ask Katherine Herridge, if you don't believe me.

Speaker 44 You know, to whatever you think of Katie Couric, within that circle, she would certainly be considered one of the most storied, established journalists of modern times.

Speaker 14 And they hated her guts that she didn't rise up within CBS and she didn't come from the evening news and all that crap.

Speaker 22 There's no way they're going to respect somebody who did a stint at the journal and the Times and then went off into independent media as a television editorial boss.

Speaker 31 And I'm sorry, but they're also not going to respect somebody who's young and a woman because CBS is not built that way.

Speaker 3 Again, ask Katie Couric, ask Katherine Herrich.

Speaker 71 I've watched it happen time after time.

Speaker 47 So I just don't get the allure.

Speaker 76 Like,

Speaker 17 are we on an independent media train where we're like creating and building something new that matters and is really going to replace these dinosaurs?

Speaker 111 Or are we going back into the dinosaurs to try to somehow put the paddles on them and continue to ask for a charge when the patient has long since expired?

Speaker 74 Yeah, such a good point.

Speaker 74 I'll just give you this quick anecdote. You know, I founded The Intercept in 2013, and we did so with Pierre Omidiar, the multi-billionaire founder of eBay.

Speaker 74 And at the time, he was strongly considering buying The Washington Post for the same amount he invested in the media company that we created, which was $250 million.

Speaker 74 And ultimately, Jeff Bezos bought it instead.

Speaker 74 And I remember him telling me he wanted to buy the Washington Post to change it, but realized that with an institution that kind of longstanding, that kind of ossified, even if you buy it and you're the owner, it's extremely difficult to change it.

Speaker 74 He decided it would be just better to start something from scratch that he felt he could put his imprint on.

Speaker 74 And I do think while I do, you know, I did express the concern that Barry's going to go there and exert a lot of influence, I think more likely is what you said, which is kind of like the rotted roots of CBS, even with new ownership, probably telling her she'll be protected or whatever, is more likely to consume her and change her and the free press than it is the other way around.

Speaker 74 And also, I think you're so right. This is a dying medium, not just cable, but network news.
Like I have never heard anyone under 40 being like, hey, did you catch 60 minutes?

Speaker 74 You know, the other night. That's not where they get their news from.
And Barry has created something, whether I like it or not, that is extremely influential because of its independence.

Speaker 74 And I have seen people go in the reverse way, like you and Tucker, for example, were freed when you finally got out of working for a major corporation.

Speaker 74 And I had that same experience. Like, even if you don't realize the constraints that are there, they're still there, just going to work there every day.

Speaker 74 Why would you want to sacrifice the credible freedom and liberty that you have of being your own boss and having this great influence to go basically become an employee of a stodgy old corporation that seems to be more dying than it is rejuvenating?

Speaker 74 Maybe it's just the allure of a brand name job, but I don't think that's a person.

Speaker 71 I think she'll hate it.

Speaker 74 I think it's the kind of person who, yeah, yeah, I wouldn't.

Speaker 103 I don't think she's going to hate it.

Speaker 9 And I wouldn't hate it.

Speaker 69 They're going to be nasty bitches to her.

Speaker 22 And I use that term in a non-gendered way.

Speaker 42 I think they're going to be terrible to her.

Speaker 40 I think she's doing something really exciting right now, and she is succeeding.

Speaker 32 And fine, the exit plan, if she wants to sell the free press, I have no judgment on that.

Speaker 48 I'm sure she could build something else awesome from scratch.

Speaker 32 And she's got a lot of investors who love her because Barry's liberal.

Speaker 40 I mean, she's more of a, you know, old school liberal, and she's not woke, so she's safe, you know, because a lot of these leftist investors love that kind of thing.

Speaker 34 They're not woke either.

Speaker 97 They can't say it publicly.

Speaker 30 They love the things that she writes that are non-woke, but they still don't like Trump.

Speaker 28 So Barry's a great investment for them.

Speaker 16 And they probably would get behind any new publication or project that she would put out there.

Speaker 40 But this just is not it.

Speaker 106 Honestly, Glenn, I can tell you truly, if anybody, if Fox News came to me tomorrow and said, Would you come in and head up Editorial or any other organization, you know, come in and help us, maybe like an ABC or a CBS and like help us write the ship?

Speaker 55 I would say, No, thank you.

Speaker 93 No, thank you.

Speaker 16 I've already gone into these networks and seen the hatred they have for people who are genuinely not of the left

Speaker 22 and for outsiders, which Barry 100% will be considered, notwithstanding her liberal bona fides card, and their miserable places to be.

Speaker 91 CBS is notorious for how unhappy everyone is.

Speaker 58 So I just think like why it's so wonderful to be independent and not to have these corporate bosses.

Speaker 16 You and I are in this great place where if somebody loves our product, maybe we'll license our product to them.

Speaker 64 That's fine. They don't own us.

Speaker 29 It's like whatever, but there's no way they own us.

Speaker 20 You wouldn't give your editorial freedom up.

Speaker 62 I wouldn't give my editorial freedom up.

Speaker 22 And you go and join one of these organizations and they're the ones who control you, not the other way around.

Speaker 74 Right. Even if you're being promised, which I'm sure Larry Ellison's son is promising her, no, like you're going to go there, you're going to have total, absolute freedom.

Speaker 74 The nature of a corporation does not, is not consistent with that kind of freedom. You have too many factions, too many power centers to please.

Speaker 74 There's no way that you can go there with all the people around you from the top and the bottom insisting that you act a certain way, that you stay within the city.

Speaker 55 Look what happened to Chris Lick at CNN.

Speaker 74 Exactly. I mean, he just tried to like modify it a little bit: like, hey, let's not be the spokesperson and the arm of the DNC.
Let's get back to what made CNN successful.

Speaker 74 And he was gone in an instant because there was a huge internal uproar over it. And she was driven out of the New York Times because of that.

Speaker 74 You know, this like very catty high school behavior of like sniping at her on Slack.

Speaker 74 That's what she left. And she create, again, for better or worse, I would say for worse, but for better or worse, she created something genuinely influential that she runs.
That's her creation.

Speaker 74 Why go give that up and work? And I can see if CBS were still this like major powerhouse, but we're like the 1950s and we were, you know, in the area of three networks. Oh, you get to run one network.

Speaker 74 Great.

Speaker 74 That isn't power anymore. That's almost obscurity.

Speaker 88 That's how I feel.

Speaker 22 I hope she doesn't do it.

Speaker 82 I want her to get her payout.

Speaker 85 So I'm kind of torn because I think she deserves all the riches and I hope she spends them well and enjoys her life.

Speaker 81 fully with Nellie, and now they're children.

Speaker 28 But I just think this is the wrong move.

Speaker 48 This isn't, she's not the right person for this job.

Speaker 34 I can see why they want her. I can see why they need her.

Speaker 93 I don't see what she gets out of it other than, you know, the paycheck, which, okay, I'm not going to shake a stick at that because it is nice to have money.

Speaker 62 And I'm sure Barry would love to have that cushion on her on her bank account.

Speaker 51 So, anyway, all the best to her.

Speaker 16 I, words of caution sounded, and now we'll see how it shakes out.

Speaker 34 Okay, let's keep going.

Speaker 16 RFKJ was on the hill this morning getting roasted by very annoying people.

Speaker 48 I mean, back to Colorado's Senator Michael Bennett.

Speaker 58 Angry, angry man who gets RFKJ in front of him.

Speaker 67 This is the finance committee.

Speaker 16 It wasn't the oversight for health and human services, but the finance committee.

Speaker 36 So it wasn't exactly the cast of characters that was there for his confirmation, though it was largely duplicative.

Speaker 48 I'm trying to remember whether that's true. In any event,

Speaker 16 here is Michael Bennett going after him because he's very, very angry that Kennedy dumped all these people who were working on the vaccine group at CDC and wants them replaced with other people who, it's not that they're all vaccine skeptics.

Speaker 16 It's that what Kennedy says is they actually just want data. They don't want to assume that babies need the Hep B

Speaker 70 shot when they are one hour old.

Speaker 10 They want data to prove to them that's a necessary, quote, vaccine injection for a one day or a one hour year old.

Speaker 16 And so that's who Kennedy wants to put on this board.

Speaker 33 In any event, here's Michael Bennett questioning him about it in SOT5.

Speaker 114 If your panel recommends changing the vaccine schedule for children, do you anticipate that fewer children will receive these common

Speaker 114 vaccinations? Yes or no?

Speaker 9 What I would say, Senator.

Speaker 114 The obvious answer is yes. Should parents and schools of Colorado be prepared for more measles outbreaks as a result of that, Mr.

Speaker 99 Secretary?

Speaker 9 Senator. How about more mumps mumps outbreaks?

Speaker 9 I do not anticipate a change in the MMR vaccine. You know, AZIP is an independent panel.

Speaker 114 Well, it's a panel you just put those folks on, far from what you said.

Speaker 9 They're people with

Speaker 114 ideas that are completely outside the mainstream.

Speaker 9 And you were never there complaining when the pharmaceutical companies were picking those people and then running their products through with no safety.

Speaker 114 You can characterize it any way you want. I quoted them today.
What I said was accurate. What you said were lies.

Speaker 9 You just

Speaker 114 moving the titanic.

Speaker 9 Are you charging? Are you saying that the tmRNA vaccine has never been associated with myocarditis or pericarditis?

Speaker 114 I am simply trying to say that the people that you have put on that panel, after firing the entire

Speaker 16 If you watch the whole segment, just Bennett's just angry the whole time, spitting mad at him.

Speaker 22 But I did think that was an interesting exchange because Kennedy gave as good as he got and was not taking it lying down, Glenn.

Speaker 35 But clearly, they want his scalp.

Speaker 16 They wanted it when he was in the confirmation hearings, which he did pass, and they want it just as badly, if not more now.

Speaker 74 Yeah, Bobby Kennedy grew up in the Oval Office. You know, like he's not going to be intimidated by people in Washington.

Speaker 74 But I will say that

Speaker 74 for me, what this shows is that these people can never come to terms with the radical failures of their

Speaker 74 venerated institutions and experts, like what everybody saw happen throughout COVID in multiple different ways.

Speaker 74 So they're basically saying, like, look, these are the experts that you have to stick with. But Trump ran on a platform, and so did RFK Jr., of clearing them out.

Speaker 74 And they think that these people that they consider the authorities, no matter how much they err, are always impermanently entitled to that status, no matter how much the American people conclude rightly that those people don't deserve to be listened to anymore and that change is radically needed.

Speaker 74 The other thing I will say that's so interesting is that RFK Jr.'s primary critique of the health establishment is actually a very left-wing critique.

Speaker 74 It's been very popular among the left for a long time, which is that it looks as though it's being driven by scientific conclusion.

Speaker 74 In reality, the scientists are chosen chosen and dominated by the drug companies who these scientists do the bidding for.

Speaker 74 So whatever product these drug companies want to be approved or want to be mandated, these scientists who are, you know, in a lot of ways devoted to or controlled by the establishment of these drug companies does it.

Speaker 74 And RFK Jr. is saying we need to remove these drug companies from the regulatory process.
They've captured the regulatory process.

Speaker 74 process and we need independent minds here to separate themselves from the drug industry to make assessments, not based on the profit of the drug companies, but based on the actual health needs of the American people.

Speaker 74 And that is a critique that for me is extremely compelling. And it's even more compelling by the fact that we've watched for five years, the worst epidemic of our lifetime.

Speaker 74 These scientists get pretty much everything wrong and lie constantly.

Speaker 74 And the fact that they still think they're entitled to permanent power status shows what the kind of entitlement mindset is of the Michael Bennetts of the world.

Speaker 69 Yes.

Speaker 32 And on the same line, you had Virginia Senator Mark Warner who tried to get you,

Speaker 32 try to got you question with him about how many people died from COVID.

Speaker 16 Now, everybody listening to our voices right now knows the asterisk that you would have to put behind any such number because we all know the hospitals were overstating the deaths.

Speaker 22 The hospitals got more money, depending on the patients who were there.

Speaker 38 And you could go in with a gunshot wound to the heart, but technically a pulse.

Speaker 20 And if you died two hours later, but they tested your corpse positive for COVID, they'd say it was a COVID death.

Speaker 31 It was insane.

Speaker 25 There was great reporting on this.

Speaker 16 Michael, David Zweig did a lot of really important pieces on all of this.

Speaker 78 And so that's why JFK in, or RFKJ, in this clip you're going to see, hesitates, but Virginia Senator Mark Warner thinks it's absolutely knowable and tried to

Speaker 2 cross-examine him with this gotcha in SOT 6.

Speaker 115 Do you accept the fact that a million Americans died from COVID?

Speaker 9 I don't know how many.

Speaker 115 You're the Secretary of Health and Human Services. You don't have any idea how many Americans died from COVID?

Speaker 9 I don't think anybody knows because the...

Speaker 9 There was so much data chaos coming out of CDC and there was lots of

Speaker 9 incentives.

Speaker 9 And these are models. You don't know the answer of how many Americans died from COVID.

Speaker 115 This is the Secretary of Health and Human Services. Do you think the vaccine did anything to prevent additional deaths?

Speaker 9 Again,

Speaker 9 I would like to see the data and talk about the data.

Speaker 115 You have had this job for eight months, and you don't know the data about whether the vaccine

Speaker 9 is that they didn't have the data. The data by the Biden administration absolutely dismal.
So when ADA is.

Speaker 115 Who is politicizing? politicizing, you're saying the Biden administration politicized all the data? Go back to what Dr. Campwell just said.

Speaker 9 They fired Dr.

Speaker 114 Trump Surgeon General.

Speaker 9 They fired Dr. Grubb.
They fired all the people who questioned the orthodoxy. How can you be that ignorant?

Speaker 9 Wow.

Speaker 42 And just to add to that, Glenn, you've got now the woman who headed up the CDC,

Speaker 16 Dr. Lisa or Susan Menarez, who wrote an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal today taking aim at RFKJ.

Speaker 32 I was fired after 29 days because I held the line and insisted on rigorous scientific review.

Speaker 20 And she goes through, he pressured me to resign.

Speaker 81 I was really just trying to hold the line on science around vaccines, you know, basically suggesting like Kennedy's not into them and he should be because they're life-saving.

Speaker 16 None of these people are realizing the absolute collapse of trust we've had in these organizations and that this whole like

Speaker 69 trademark the science thing is not working on the vast majority of the American people anymore.

Speaker 74 Well, also like this question of like how many deaths, the point they're trying to make is that COVID killed a huge number of people and it killed a lot more people in the United States than in virtually every other country, if not every other country by percentage, which, okay, let's assume that's true.

Speaker 74 Like huge numbers of people died of COVID in the United States. The people who were in charge, it wasn't really Biden or Trump.

Speaker 74 It was the scientific establishment that has run science and health policy in the United States for decades. It was Tony Fauci and everybody on down.
They all got their way with everything.

Speaker 74 These moronic policies of masks and forced vaccines. And remember that idiotic six-foot social distancing, which turned out to be a complete joke.
School lockdowns without regard to the consequences.

Speaker 74 Lies about the origins of COVID.

Speaker 74 Everybody understands except these people in Washington that the people that they want to venerate as the experts who you cannot question, who you cannot touch, that that if you question at all, you're being unscientific.

Speaker 74 It was those people who radically failed. And they didn't just fail because of error that was understandable.
They failed because of arrogance and deceit.

Speaker 74 They banished any questioning up to the point where you got banned from the internet if you questioned any of these orthodoxies, including many of which that turned out to be completely false, not just questionable.

Speaker 74 So the anger and arrogance that they continue to maintain, like, how dare you question these numbers that have been handed down from, you know, Mount Olympus when so much of what they handed down turned out to be false shows the kind of insularity that they cannot lose.

Speaker 74 Like they just don't understand the American people, don't trust them in these institutions any longer, including science, and for good reason.

Speaker 28 Yes, my gosh, yes, so well said.

Speaker 16 It's infuriating because I watched that. My basic takeaway is if RFKJ doesn't like Susan Menares, neither do I.

Speaker 88 Goodbye. I don't trust her.

Speaker 20 He was put in there to blow things up and do things differently and restore trust in these institutions and quickly realized, even though he'd worked with her for a couple months and apparently thought she was okay because she got confirmed, changed his mind.

Speaker 41 Fine, he's the head of the group.

Speaker 78 He's at the top of HHS.

Speaker 67 Sure, it's a pain in the ass to have to confirm somebody new.

Speaker 70 I don't care.

Speaker 31 Martin Kaldorf would be amazing.

Speaker 16 He's brilliant, part of the Great Barrington Declaration.

Speaker 35 One of the few who was honest from Harvard, the left should love him.

Speaker 32 But because he joined in that, you know, focused protection pitch, they don't.

Speaker 32 Here is RFKJ in an exchange with Senator Ron Wyden, who also hates his guts of Oregon, having a contentious exchange about that op-ed by Monarez in the Wall Street Journal.

Speaker 2 And RFKJ speaks to it a bit, SOT3.

Speaker 95 She was told to pre-approve the recommendations of a vaccine advisory panel filled with people who've publicly expressed anti-vaccine rhetoric.

Speaker 95 Did you, in fact, do what Director Monarez said you did, which is tell her to just go along with vaccine recommendations, even if she didn't think such recommendations aligned with scientific evidence.

Speaker 95 But you have an opportunity to call her a liar.

Speaker 9 I never said that.

Speaker 95 So she's lying today to the American people in the Wall Street Journal. Yes, sir.

Speaker 63 Okay.

Speaker 63 So

Speaker 77 one way or the other, we're going to have a hard look at vaccines.

Speaker 17 And whatever they do, they can give them a hard time about Monares.

Speaker 70 One way or the other, Glenn, we are going to take a hard look at these vaccines and have an actual debate about whether they're safe and effective.

Speaker 29 Kennedy's already doing it.

Speaker 20 And these people are going to do their level best to stop it, however, they can.

Speaker 31 They don't want it.

Speaker 16 They just say it's settled science.

Speaker 64 We can't have these discussions.

Speaker 55 I don't think they're going to win this time.

Speaker 24 Your thoughts?

Speaker 74 I mean,

Speaker 74 the aspect of the clip with Bennett, the first one we showed that I thought was very revealing that we didn't mention was

Speaker 74 RFK Jr.

Speaker 74 were saying, are you trying to deny the link between the COVID vaccines and myocarditis, which if you recall, and I'm sure you do, anyone who raised that, people were on Joe Rogan raising it, Joe Rogan himself was raising it, they were called anti-vax.

Speaker 74 There can be a link between

Speaker 74 vaccines and myocarditis. And still, on the whole, the vaccine might be still desirable because

Speaker 74 the benefits outweigh the risk. But to simply deny the truth or to insist that everybody lie because questioning the vaccine might lead others to be more skeptical about it.

Speaker 74 That's the kind of really condescending deceit that has characterized elites in the United States for way too long.

Speaker 74 And of course, Bennett won't now acknowledge or even address the question because we know there's links between the COVID vaccine and myocarditis.

Speaker 74 But at the time, it was so vehemently denied that anyone who raised it was treated as almost a criminal. I don't think RFK Jr.
has all the answers.

Speaker 74 I don't think his scientist, the one he favors, should also have this unanimous ability to implement policy without debate and be questioned. But I don't think he's asking for that.

Speaker 74 He's saying we need a shakeup in the health policy institution because of how wrong they've been in so many corrupt ways.

Speaker 74 And that's what offends people in Washington whenever you question establishment prerogatives. And that's what the American people hate most about Washington is the establishment.

Speaker 74 And Democrats are always in the position of defending it, as are many Republicans. But Democrats have almost tied themselves to the establishment.

Speaker 74 They think any questioning of it is almost like sacro, like irreligious, irreligious you know or some kind of sin even though the public has turned against these people completely they've lost us they lost us long ago they lost us in part because they put guys like this in charge of our vaccine policy here's that dr dimitri daskalakis on with caitlin collins the other night on cnn sot 11

Speaker 116 For my entire career, been an advocate for the LGBTQ community

Speaker 116 through my work in HIV, through my work in MPOCS, I find it outrageous that

Speaker 116 this administration is trying to erase transgender people.

Speaker 116 I very specifically use the term pregnant people and very specifically added my pronouns at the end of my resignation letter to make the point that I am defying

Speaker 116 this terrible strategy at trying to erase people and not allowing them to express their identities. So I accept the note from the press secretary and counter that that with, I don't care.

Speaker 24 That's the Biden administration's idea of science.

Speaker 71 Pregnant people.

Speaker 16 That's who we should be listening to, according to the Ron Wydens and the Michael Bennetts of the world.

Speaker 74 You know, I have to say, like,

Speaker 74 I lived through the gay rights movement, which basically succeeded in all of its forms way beyond what anyone actually thought was possible.

Speaker 74 And I believe the reason for that was that there were constant debates.

Speaker 74 Like, Americans are basically, in my view, good people who are open-minded and they might have ideas because they've been taught to have ideas.

Speaker 74 And the more you engage with people, the more they see the reality of things, the more, the more just kind of accepting they become. Like, we're not interested in controlling other people's lives.

Speaker 74 I really believe that would have been the trajectory of trans people. And actually, it had been the trajectory of trans people.
No one really cared about trans people.

Speaker 74 It's, they, they've been around for quite a while. They've had victories in terms of legal rights until this sort of mentality started dictating like, how dare you question anything?

Speaker 74 The minute you question anything, you're an evil person. We're going to shove this down your throat.
We don't care if you understand it. We don't care if you agree with it.

Speaker 74 We're going to subject your kids to it. That is exactly what in most cases the gay rights movement avoided.
It was much more about engagement and persuasion and debate.

Speaker 74 And unfortunately, like a lot of the modern day left does not believe in any of that.

Speaker 74 They have this very imperious attitude that they're going to force people even to change their language and their most fundamental beliefs, not through persuasion, but through dictate.

Speaker 74 And when you do that to people in general and Americans in particular, we're still endowed with this kind of like, we have the right to think what we want and do what we want.

Speaker 74 All you're going to do is create massive backlash. And in so many ways, what they claim to be so afraid of is their own creation.

Speaker 76 Yeah.

Speaker 16 As soon as you say pregnant people, I'm out.

Speaker 88 You're not a scientist.

Speaker 48 You can't lecture me on science.

Speaker 39 You've lost me.

Speaker 16 And I speak for millions.

Speaker 53 Last one, Ron Johnson, who spoke some sense and was one of the only ones today in SOT7.

Speaker 99 Here's the facts.

Speaker 117 The VAYERS system that was touted in October

Speaker 117 of 2020, this great safety surveillance system on COVID.

Speaker 117 A few months later, when they didn't like the results, they started denigrating their own system.

Speaker 117 But VAYERS shows that there have been 38,742 deaths reported on VAERS worldwide associated with the COVID vaccine. 38,742.

Speaker 117 9,252 of those deaths

Speaker 117 occurred on the day of vaccination within one or two days.

Speaker 3 He's a hero.

Speaker 94 He's been so great on all things related to health and COVID and Maha.

Speaker 16 Like, thank God he's there, Glenn.

Speaker 81 I'm going to take a quick break.

Speaker 32 I got to come back.

Speaker 22 There's something insane that we have to discuss, but I'm going to do this break and then we're going to come back on a lighter note.

Speaker 68 I think you'll enjoy it.

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Speaker 105 Proposition 50 threatens what voters built. California voters approved an independent commission that spent thousands of hours creating fair election districts where all people are represented.

Speaker 105 Prop 50 destroys this good work. Prop 50 is a direct attack on democracy, a dangerous idea that tears away the power of choice.
Protect your vote and democracy. Vote no on Prop 50.

Speaker 104 Add Paid paid for by no on prop 50 protect voters first sponsored by hold politicians accountable at committee's top funder charles mugger jr this is marshawn lynch you and i make decisions every day but on prize picks being right can get you paid so i'm here to make sure you don't miss any of the action this football season with prize picks it's good to be right download the prize picks app today and use code pandora to get 50 in lineups after you play your first five dollar lineup that's code pandora to get fifty dollars in lineups after you play your first five lineup.

Speaker 104 Prize picks, it's good to be right. Must be present in certain states, visit prizepicks.com for restrictions and details.

Speaker 2 I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

Speaker 65 It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today.

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Speaker 87 Back with me now, Glenn Greenwald.

Speaker 92 Okay, Glenn, so we've now got the official write-up from the left on marriage and whether it's worth your time.

Speaker 28 This is written on MSNBC by someone named Christina Wyman.

Speaker 12 And here is the headline: Taylor Swift's about to find out what a lot of married women already know.

Speaker 10 Hat tip, marriage sucks is where she goes with this piece.

Speaker 79 I'm going to give you some excerpts.

Speaker 22 I might be the only one who's not bursting at the seams with unbridled joy over Taylor Swift's engagement news.

Speaker 71 To be sure, romantic love is real.

Speaker 97 Science believes it lasts for about two years tops.

Speaker 48 But science has also discovered something else.

Speaker 12 When it comes to heterounions, men stand to benefit much more than women do from marriage.

Speaker 28 And it is widely known, okay, that's her sourcing, widely known that single women are thought to be happier than their married counterparts.

Speaker 3 That's a complete lie, Christina Wyman.

Speaker 87 Completely untrue.

Speaker 16 The studies show exactly the opposite.

Speaker 97 Not to say you can't be a happy person as a single woman.

Speaker 16 But the data show you're more than twice as likely to be happy if you're married with kids.

Speaker 34 Our first four years of marriage, she says says about her own, turned out to be the hardest of our relationship.

Speaker 32 She goes on to say a bunch of bad things about marriage, and I keep waiting for her to get to the part where they get divorced.

Speaker 57 No, they don't get divorced.

Speaker 32 She's still married to this person about whom she's going to say a bunch of terrible things.

Speaker 87 There's nothing magical about marriage.

Speaker 102 Nothing.

Speaker 70 Not one thing.

Speaker 97 Even for the happiest couples.

Speaker 12 Nothing magical about it.

Speaker 17 Just know that. My spouse and I do share a lot of happy moments and copious laughter, for which I'm grateful.

Speaker 79 We love each other fiercely and work hard to give each other good lives.

Speaker 69 But here's the capper: despite our love and commitment to each other, most of our days together are marked by drudgery, negotiation, mild arguments, odd smells, and tedium with a healthy dose of mind-numbing irritation that has made me want to throw in the towel more times than I can recall.

Speaker 20 I have no doubt he's experienced the same because we talk about it.

Speaker 17 She goes on to say, they're in couples therapy, working out the very real and sometimes deal-breaking kinks.

Speaker 16 Marriage is rife with such realities, and celebrities don't get a pass on these basic truisms. This is the funniest thing, Glenn.

Speaker 82 I know you are a widower and that you had a happy marriage.

Speaker 40 I could not relate to this piece less.

Speaker 13 I think what's really happened to poor Christina is she's married to the wrong person.

Speaker 16 Clearly her husband has married the wrong

Speaker 12 It's never gonna work out.

Speaker 16 Here's a pro tip for you: you should just cut your losses now and find new spouses or move on and be the lonely woman who you wish to be, Christina, because there are many of us who would argue there's plenty that is magical about marriage if you choose the right person.

Speaker 57 It can be utterly life-changing for the better.

Speaker 40 It can lift you up in everything you do, not to mention then adding children to the mix, which is a whole new and unknown level of happiness for every normal person on earth.

Speaker 16 She sounds like Michelle Obama speaking about marriage as the darkest of institutions that's going to ruin your life.

Speaker 40 And it reminds me of what J.D.

Speaker 59 Vance said, that these so-called childless cat ladies really need to understand their misunderstanding, the possible joy that could be available to them in making a different choice.

Speaker 27 And reminded the left that going out there lecturing everybody on how terrible marriage and families are is one of the reasons why people look at you on the left and say, I don't want anything to do with these people.

Speaker 13 They don't understand my life or happiness-creating choices at all.

Speaker 9 Your thoughts?

Speaker 74 Yeah, I mean, I will just say, like,

Speaker 74 everything you just read could not be further away from my own personal experience either.

Speaker 74 And, you know, there was a time in my life when you're young and you're not, you don't like necessarily know that because you haven't experienced it.

Speaker 74 But every single thing good in my life, every single thing good in my life has came from my 18-year marriage that only ended because of death and because of the kids we raised.

Speaker 74 Like no matter what I accomplish in my work or in any other realm, those will always be the things I value most.

Speaker 74 Those will always be the things that, of which I'm proudest, but also like which give me a level of happiness and purpose and fulfillment that nothing else could ever provide. And also.

Speaker 74 These are not just like anecdotal.

Speaker 74 Like, why would she, just because of her own like misery and her own gross broken marriage, like project that onto everybody else and say like i have this horrible marriage therefore you like who's so narcissistic to universalize their own personal experience but there's so much science and by like i have a i have a small farm just because i like i love animals and you watch like pigs and goats and like any horses and they all have their own like inbred needs of like social companionship and like how their kind of like needs function and what they need to be fulfilled and it always involves some sort of coupling or some sort of pairing for reasons that are obvious, like the ability for two complex adults to both enrich each other's lives by finding a way to like connect on the deepest levels.

Speaker 74 And it doesn't mean you don't fight. It doesn't mean you're not irritated sometimes, but the joys are so much bigger and society benefits, you benefit.

Speaker 74 I mean, I just don't, and also like, if she's so unhappy, who cares? Like, go see,

Speaker 74 get a therapist.

Speaker 74 Why do they feel a need to like advertise their unhappiness and then turn it into some like universal principle where you're trying to convince everybody else that they're as miserable as you are?

Speaker 74 Like, what is the need of that?

Speaker 24 That the institution just sucks.

Speaker 16 You know, I think about it, like sometimes I think about our friend Maureen Callahan, who's not married and is totally happy and like sparkling as a woman, as a person, thriving, brilliant, lots of friends, just such a rich person in the fullest definition of that term.

Speaker 35 And I see it, and she's not my only example in my friends, but like it's very possible to be very happy, not married.

Speaker 25 However, if you want to get into stats, as opposed to just, it's widely known, single women are thought to be happier than their married counterparts, the stats show the opposite.

Speaker 20 There was just one done in March of 2025, surveying 3,000 American women between the ages of 25 and 55.

Speaker 47 It concluded that married mothers are nearly twice as likely to report being very happy compared to single childless women.

Speaker 14 Nearly twice as likely.

Speaker 81 And it goes on to talk about how enjoyable life's even felt within the past 30 days.

Speaker 34 47% of married mothers say, yeah, it's felt really enjoyable.

Speaker 32 Most or all of the last 30 days, only 34% of unmarried childless women say that.

Speaker 16 And it's for some of the reasons you mentioned, you know, just human interaction and touch and having a buddy and a best friend with you at all times and someone to go through life with and, you know, work out problems with.

Speaker 32 And I don't mean to rub it in, Glenn, because I know you're still, you know, obviously you lost somebody very important to you.

Speaker 52 But you know, my point is simply marriage as an institution is good and valuable.

Speaker 67 And finding a lifetime partner is good and valuable and does not deserve this dumping from somebody who chose clearly the wrong partner.

Speaker 15 And I will tell you, as somebody who did get a divorce, you know, I was married before there was Doug, there was Dan, and Dan and I are still friends.

Speaker 65 I will tell you that if you are having to work this hard all the time, like she says, like Michelle Obama says, you probably married the wrong person.

Speaker 79 Because now, having married the right person, and we've been together, we've been married almost 18 years now,

Speaker 40 it's not effortless, but it's close to effortless. It's really close to effortless.

Speaker 16 It's great.

Speaker 31 It's exciting.

Speaker 58 It's wonderful being with her.

Speaker 35 It's not like, you know, running through the wheat fields all the time with your hair flowing.

Speaker 28 I'm not saying that.

Speaker 16 But it's fun and it's uplifting.

Speaker 58 And you look forward to seeing the person. And you have random hugs throughout the day.

Speaker 29 And

Speaker 67 just like caressing.

Speaker 36 And I don't know.

Speaker 18 You just do quiet, nice things for each other and show respect for each other. And Doug's a gentleman, like all those things uplift me in my life.

Speaker 31 I can't imagine sitting in this relationship with constant bitterness infesting my worldview to the point when Taylor and Travis get engaged.

Speaker 36 Even Megan Kelly said, I wish her well.

Speaker 16 And I'm a critic of this woman.

Speaker 12 She's got a dump ball over it like, fuck off.

Speaker 20 I'm miserable and you will be too.

Speaker 74 Yeah, just really quickly, there's this really fascinating end of life research where people who are in the end stage of their life and know it, they get asked like, what do you wish you did more of?

Speaker 74 And almost nobody says, I wish I worked more. I wish I had more promotions.
Almost everybody says, I wish I had more time with the person like I was married to. I wish I had more time with my kids.

Speaker 74 I wish I had done these things more with my family, the people who are closest to me, my friends. That's ultimately what make lives matter.

Speaker 74 And if you're so bitter about that, you're basically bitter about life. And that's kind of what makes it sad to hear articles like that.

Speaker 66 Yes.

Speaker 16 And more pieces need to be written on that reminding people because too many people on the left are going to listen to this nitwit and let some golden opportunities go by because they think they're going to be happier sitting alone in front of their TV night after night.

Speaker 16 And look, if that's your jam, God bless, no judgment, but there's a really good jam potentially available to you on the other side. And then once you add kids to the mix, exponentially even better.

Speaker 42 So

Speaker 43 give it a shot.

Speaker 2 Maybe don't get your marriage advice from MSNBC.

Speaker 26 Glenn, a pleasure.

Speaker 11 As always, look forward to talking soon.

Speaker 74 Always great to see you, Megan.

Speaker 30 All right, tomorrow we've got Link Lauren, and boy, oh boy, do we have a Megan Markle update for you, among other things.

Speaker 16 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly Show.

Speaker 35 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

Speaker 118 This is Marshawn Lynch. You and I make decisions every day, but on prize picks, being right can get you paid.
So I'm here to make sure you don't miss any of the action this football season.

Speaker 104 With prize picks, it's good to be right download the prize picks app today and use code pandora to get 50 in lineups after you play your first five dollar lineup that's code pandora to get fifty dollars in lineups after you play your first five dollar lineup prize picks it's good to be right must be present in certain states visit prize picks.com for restrictions and details

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