Graham Linehan on His Arrest Over "Dangerous" Posts, and Media Refusing to Cover Brutal Charlotte Murder, with Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. Cooke | Ep 1143

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Speaker 11 Okay, and speaking of all that, I mean, really, this is the perfect guess to begin with on that front, because we start with an incredible story out of the UK and a Megan Kelly show exclusive.

Speaker 11 Last week, Irish comedy writer Graham Linehan was arrested at Heathrow Airport by five armed officers over three tweets. Yes, three posts on X,

Speaker 12 three

Speaker 11 regarding... the transgender issue got him arrested by five armed officers before he even got into London.
He was still at Heathrow. He hadn't really stepped a foot out of the airport.

Speaker 11 And they treated this man like he was Khalid Sheikh Muhammad touching down in the UK. Now, Graham's best known for his creation of the hit comedy series Father Ted.

Speaker 11 Many Americans may not be familiar with it. Here's a clip.

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Speaker 17 I think Ted has a plan.

Speaker 7 Oh, I mean, in general.

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Speaker 11 All right, for the listening audience, it's classic, irreverent British humor. This thing was, to say it was a hit is to understate, you know, that's like saying, well, you know, friends was a hit.

Speaker 11 Yeah, this was a huge hit. And he did very well and he's very well known.

Speaker 11 And instead of most public figures who are too cowardly to, once they've made their money and made their name, ever speak out on an issue as controversial as the trans issue, Graham did.

Speaker 11 In fact, he was an early advocate for sanity on this issue. And it has happened, it has come at great cost to him, this courage of his.

Speaker 11 It's ridiculous how much he's lost just because of his willingness to speak truth on this issue.

Speaker 11 He's been fighting back against the trans madness for years, notwithstanding the suffering it's caused in his not just professional, but his personal life as well, all the way up to now, his freedom being endangered, and still says he will not be silenced.

Speaker 11 He joins me now for his first on-camera interview since his arrest days ago.

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Speaker 11 Graham, welcome.

Speaker 17 Hi, Megan. Thank you very much.

Speaker 11 It's an honor to have you here. Let's just start before we get to the absurdity of what happened at Heathrow with

Speaker 11 what made you speak out about this issue early on? Because you really were pretty early in the battle. And,

Speaker 11 you know, like I said, it was not without risk when you were, it was with more risk when you first started speaking about it.

Speaker 17 Oh, yeah, it was

Speaker 17 instant.

Speaker 17 yeah i was cancelled instantly i shared an article that was uh you know very um compassionate and about both sides of the debate uh written by a a brilliant woman over here called heather brunskill evans and i actually shared it when i was in my hospital bed uh

Speaker 17 uh and i think possibly because i was coming out of a operation and I was a bit giddy on morphine and I remembered thinking to myself why am I so scared to get into this debate debate you know there's no it's it's clearly correct and and I sent off off that article and within moments

Speaker 17 the first response one of the first responses that came back was I wish the cancer had won you know so

Speaker 17 that that continued first of all it was basically you know the shock troops of the internet piling in

Speaker 17 doing edited edited screenshots of my tweets that made it look like I was saying different things sometimes making up things entirely.

Speaker 17 There was a Photoshop of a fake apology that I sent to the women of Mumsnet, which is a popular website over here, a feminist website or woman's website.

Speaker 17 And they did a fake Photoshop of me apologizing for sending people dick pics.

Speaker 17 So this was like constant

Speaker 17 and it just kept happening.

Speaker 17 But the thing is, I thought the message was so important

Speaker 17 that, you know, women need single sex spaces. I thought that was very obvious.
Women need fair sports. I thought that was very obvious.
Men shouldn't be in women's prisons.

Speaker 17 I thought that was very obvious. And children shouldn't be mutilated and sterilized in gender clinics.

Speaker 17 And I genuinely thought that all my friends would come rallying to my side, all the people, all the friendships I've made over my whole career, and not a single person stood up for me.

Speaker 17 So I started to be targeted by actually a very small group of trans-identified men, one of whom is a convicted sex offender who sexually assaulted a boy when he was 14 years old.

Speaker 17 And these men have the police wrapped around their fingers. Not just me who's been arrested.
There's been, you know, several dozens of women arrested in the UK over the last eight years. And

Speaker 17 again, these women are suffering in silence because no one with any authority will stand up to them. You know, Keir Starmer came into power saying that he would end the culture wars, but he hasn't.

Speaker 17 He's just hid from them so as a result uh women are are being hauled into court uh put into cells um

Speaker 17 and and you know the the police over here are basically working for trans activists and trans i want to make it very clear i'm not talking about uh trans-identified people there's a lot of people who are trans identified who are very good very decent uh some of them are confused uh

Speaker 17 some of them are just gender non-conforming um

Speaker 17 But trans activists, without wanting to put too much of a gloss on it, are the scum of the earth. They really are.

Speaker 12 They are the worst. Worst.

Speaker 11 Yeah. They are 100% bullies.
And nine times out of 10, it's men. I mean, 99% of them are men, masquerading as women who want to bully.
And usually it's women.

Speaker 11 They want to bully women right out of their spaces and their rights. And

Speaker 11 too infrequently, have we had really active men standing up for us too so it's it's amazing you know i mean billboard chris is one of them matt walsh is one of them you're one of them you know the ones who do it and do it loud we recognize we see and it's wonderful it's great i think most women who are involved in this fight really appreciate it not that we wouldn't do it without men but there have been some men who have been truly heroic in not lying down for this shit and you're one of them and honestly in the uk it's even more rare because you don't have the free speech protections that we have here.

Speaker 11 And in general, the UK is closer to Canada. You know, it just has

Speaker 11 like, it just seems to me as a country. They're much more willing to go along with this woke bullshit than they should be.
And, you know, we've seen it time and time again, but you're not like that.

Speaker 11 Obviously, we have to mention she's not a man, but J.K. Rowling has been totally fearless from the very beginning on all of this.
And she's been defending you in the wake of this absurd arrest. So you

Speaker 11 not only did not have your colleagues stand by you, you lost your marriage.

Speaker 11 Your health went downhill.

Speaker 11 I mean, I don't want to skip right over that because when you invite this kind of stress and harassment, and I do use that word harassment as a legal matter, you've been legally harassed by these trans activists.

Speaker 11 It comes at a physical and personal cost that people too frequently gloss by. Can you speak to it a

Speaker 17 well yeah i mean uh the the person i mentioned earlier the sex offender he he released my home address online when i was when i was still at the family home which absolutely you know terrified my wife and even recently oh actually that's sorry that's to do with my current trial i can't i can't talk about my current trial but um they released our family address uh um at home because I used to you know as the writer of Father Ted I was fairly well liked so neither of us thought thought we had to be careful with our online footprint.

Speaker 17 But of course, when it flipped and I became public enemy number one, all the things that we put online were kind of

Speaker 17 rifled through by trans activists for anything they could use against me. And the first thing was my address.

Speaker 17 Then they started calling the police on me. And the police came to our home one morning, one Sunday morning, which really upset my wife.

Speaker 17 And

Speaker 17 it was since then, it's been, you know, never ending.

Speaker 17 I've been visited by the police, I think, three times now, not including the arrest.

Speaker 20 Once.

Speaker 17 Yeah. Oh, yeah.
They came to my home.

Speaker 17 No, is it three times? Yeah, once at my home, once at a flat and

Speaker 17 once in London. And, you know, I moved from Norwich to London when I got separated.
And

Speaker 17 yeah, and I've never been out of litigation in this whole fight. I'm I'm constantly being sued.

Speaker 17 I'm being sued at the moment by a particularly rabid trans activist named David Paisley, who's a sealist actor

Speaker 20 who, you know,

Speaker 17 has been involved in some appalling harassment of women. And it's just constant.
I'm never...

Speaker 17 not on edge in in my in the in the country I moved to. I'm Irish, but I moved to the UK in the early mid-90s.
And I'm just always on edge now here because I never know if I'm going to be arrested or

Speaker 17 attacked in the street or whatever it happens to be. Because as you know, trans activists, apart from anything else, are very violent and very volatile.
So

Speaker 17 it's just not a fun place for me anymore. So that's why I eventually moved to Arizona.

Speaker 11 But, you know, you said something at one point that really resonated with me, which was you have a daughter. And we kind of throw that out sometimes.

Speaker 11 Like I'm speaking for my daughter because she can't speak up for herself, you know, when our daughters are young in particular. But this, this really is that.

Speaker 11 You said the quote was,

Speaker 11 let's see.

Speaker 11 Okay, I don't want my daughter to go into college and have a male-bodied person whose story she doesn't know in the toilet with her. She cannot object to it.
So I had to take the fight on for her.

Speaker 11 Now, the sentence, she cannot object to it, is true in a number of ways, right?

Speaker 11 Sometimes they're too little to actually be able to object, and sometimes they are old enough to actually form the words.

Speaker 11 But the social cost to a minor girl whose life is in front of her, who still hasn't gotten her first job or into college, is enormous.

Speaker 11 I mean, it's next to impossible for these girls to actually speak out about it, which is why we see so many of them, fewer and fewer these days, or more and more are saying something, but still the vast majority don't, standing there like hostages on their sports teams when the enormous male joins the basketball team and they look like, sure, I'm fine with it.

Speaker 11 Trans rights are human rights. And that is so right.
If those of us who are fully grown, employed, and have established ourselves in one way, shape, or form don't take the risk for them, no one will.

Speaker 17 Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Speaker 17 And when you and when you look at all these all these young girls in sports teams in America, they've learned the lesson lesson that most adults do not care about women or girls.

Speaker 17 And in fact, they will put

Speaker 17 the desires of men over the safety of women.

Speaker 17 I think this the trans movement is the greatest insult that women have ever faced.

Speaker 17 And as to what you were saying earlier, the other thing about the trans movement, excuse me, the other thing about the trans movement is women

Speaker 17 all through it get a terrible deal from it. You know, if a man transitions, he just has to put a dress on and say, I'm trans.
And suddenly everyone thinks he's trans.

Speaker 17 But when women do it, they get double mastectomies,

Speaker 17 they get sterilized, you know, they get, they come out of it with their health absolutely destroyed.

Speaker 17 You know, I don't know whether you ever saw, but there was a heartbreaking, you know,

Speaker 17 front seat video done by a woman. And, you know, she looks like a balding 40-year-old man, you know, because the testosterone has just wreaked havoc

Speaker 17 with her system. And she thought she was going to turn into a young man.

Speaker 17 But in fact, what people don't realize about testosterone and women is that every single woman who is on testosterone will go into early menopause, you know? And that brings with it.

Speaker 17 Yeah, that brings with it threat of dementia, increased threat of a heart attack is another thing that these women have to face.

Speaker 17 And I don't know if you noticed, have you ever seen Ellen or Ellen Stroke Elliott Page speak?

Speaker 17 You'll notice she has that little kind of kazoo voice. That's because her vocal cords have been swollen by the testosterone, and her slender female neck is not able for it.

Speaker 17 So that's why you'll see a lot of these trans men have the same voice.

Speaker 11 I did not know that, but no trans person ever lands the voice. The voice is a dead giveaway.

Speaker 11 Even the ones who can arguably pass, as soon as they start speaking, it's so obvious and it's so uncomfortable.

Speaker 11 It's genuinely jarring because even if they've managed to fool you, suddenly you're like, okay, I know what this is. And it's a fraud.

Speaker 11 And I don't know actually whether I'm dealing with a dangerous person or not, because there is a high rate of violence with some of these people.

Speaker 11 And on top of that, there's also a very high number of these male-to-female, in other words, men pretending to be women trans people, who are autogynophiles, who are in the middle of not gender confusion, but a sexual fetish, who want to get off

Speaker 11 by putting on a dress next to your daughter or mine or me.

Speaker 11 And we have a society, both yours and mine still, that say, shut up and take it like a good girl. Be nice about it.
Or there's something wrong with you.

Speaker 11 Or you, Graham, trying to stand up for your daughter,

Speaker 11 something's wrong with you. You're a bully deviant who hates trans people and hates people who are different, as opposed to someone who cares about safety and appropriate boundaries.

Speaker 17 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 17 I mean, you know, people call me monomaniacal on this, you know, but I would, I would, first of all, I challenge anyone not to be monomaniacal about an issue when it's been used to destroy your life and career.

Speaker 17 But the other thing is, how can people not be monomaniacal about

Speaker 17 a thing which damages children, you know, which puts women in danger?

Speaker 17 The Scottish, I mean, we still have men in women's prisons, both here and in the US. US, and it's an absolutely disgraceful, ongoing situation.

Speaker 17 And I just find it extraordinary that something is clearly wrong as that. I heard one statistic, which might be of interest to your viewers.

Speaker 17 Apparently, like, I can't remember, it's every time I say the number, it doesn't sound right because it's so high, but it is really high. Let's say it's over 80%, but I am minimizing it.

Speaker 17 80% of women or over 80% of women in prisons have blunt force trauma trauma to the head caused by a partner at some point. So these and also these women are not in for serious crimes.

Speaker 17 They're in for petty theft. They're in for all, you know, those kind of, and all, also, there's, there's often a man behind these crimes.
So these women are

Speaker 17 far more vulnerable than the male prison population. And they are being housed with not just men, but some of the worst men in the world.
You know, Lisa, Lisa Nanny over here.

Speaker 17 Predators, yeah. And the test of whether they're real trans or not is whether you get raped.
That's the trans test, you know.

Speaker 17 If you get raped, they're not a real trans person. But if you don't get raped, oh, they are a real trans person.
That's the transit. That's the trans activist argument, you know.

Speaker 17 So women are the actual

Speaker 17 actual guinea pigs in this social experiment, you know, and it's it's going to go. I don't know if if I don't know how long it's going to go on if people don't start speaking up.

Speaker 11 No,

Speaker 11 the whole thing about like like

Speaker 11 people, why aren't you outraged? It reminds me very much of the bumper sticker that was all over the U.S. when George W.
Bush was president and we had invaded Iraq and we had two wars going.

Speaker 11 Obviously the Afghanistan one was brought upon us by Osama bin Laden, but Iraq was very controversial and the liberals used to ride around with bumper stickers that read, if you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

Speaker 11 And that's how I feel about this issue. If you are not outraged, you're not paying attention.
You point out about what the girls have to go through.

Speaker 11 I mean, the entire forearm is missing on these young girls. Missing.

Speaker 11 It's been gutted down to the bone as these derelict, disgusting, malpracticing everyday surgeons in quote mutilate their arms to try to create a fake phallus for these girls, nine out of ten of whom are just upset mom and dad got divorced or have acne and normal, you know, puberty reluctance or just the just the uncomfortableness that comes from going through the change of your body into a woman.

Speaker 11 It's insane what we're doing. It's truly insane.
So you

Speaker 11 find the courage to speak up. Eventually, your wife and you break up over all this stress.
And as you, I think, sagely said,

Speaker 11 it's not you didn't have any problems in your marriage, but when you add all these other layers of stress to an already stressed marriage, it's going to fracture. It just is.
So you lose your wife.

Speaker 11 You then lose

Speaker 11 career. You guys were in the midst of trying to take Father Ted to the stage as a musical, and it was going swimmingly.
You actually had some big names signing on. You were doing like rehearsals.

Speaker 11 You had songs. You had a great ending.
And the one thing you thought was that your colleagues would stand by you. And yet?

Speaker 20 Yeah.

Speaker 17 They just, they just, one day I came down to London for what I thought was a meeting about the show.

Speaker 17 And

Speaker 17 the guy who runs Hat-Trick, who produced Father Ted,

Speaker 17 he told me that they wouldn't do it if I was involved. And they offered me £200,000 to walk away.

Speaker 17 I remember I argued with him.

Speaker 17 I said, you know, this is too important for me to stop talking about. I said, young girls are being

Speaker 17 mutilated and sterilized in gender clinics. And he shouted at me, I don't care, you know.

Speaker 17 So that's what I was up against. And, you know, I expected at least my co-writers,

Speaker 17 Neil Hannan, who I've been friends with for most of my life, Arthur Matthews, who I've been friends with for most of my life, to stand up for me and

Speaker 17 say, no, Graham's not a bigot. Of course, women need single-sex spaces.
Of course, they need fair sports. And I begged them to.
I begged them to, but they never did.

Speaker 17 They just refused, refused point blank.

Speaker 17 So,

Speaker 17 you know,

Speaker 17 and that was kind of the story with all my friends. You know, not a single one stood by me.

Speaker 17 I went out to dinner with them and I just asked them to please say something, anything that just that just makes it sound like I'm not insane. Because one of the problems with this, Megan, is just

Speaker 17 people don't believe you. People don't believe it's happening because they can't take on the fact that the entire of society is lying to them.

Speaker 17 Over over here in the uk the bbc has been lying by omission about this subject for the last eight years yes people you know and the woman i don't know i sent you a video of my i went on to i was ambushed on news night by uh sarah smith um uh who who basically just made it all about my uh the way i i i conducted myself online again uh you know of course i was angry you know i was i was furious all the time because you're missing the issue

Speaker 17 you're missing the issue And Sarah Smith is now the head of BBC North America. And I always worry

Speaker 17 when I see Americans taking on these very, very left-wing attitudes on Palestine and on the trans issue, I do wonder how much of it is because a lot of liberals over there are sort of anglophiles, you know, which is very, which is very nice of them, but they take papers like the Guardian too seriously, channels like the BBC too seriously.

Speaker 17 And all these institutions have been completely captured. It's like a war has been fought without a battle, without a bullet fired.

Speaker 17 And all these lunatics now have their feet under the table and are doing everything they can to continue to confuse the British public about what's going on.

Speaker 11 Well, that's what you said is exactly true. We're talking about rhetorical bullets, and by that, we mean truth.

Speaker 11 Our side let these trans activists take over. They changed laws in the UK and here in the United States.

Speaker 11 All these blue states in America have a legal mandate to let boys who say they're girls use the girls' bathroom and, in many cases, be on the girls' sports team.

Speaker 11 And in many cases, mandate the use of whatever preferred pronoun that kid has. And in New York City, for example, where we used to live,

Speaker 11 mandates teachers to keep it a secret from the parents if the child says, don't tell my parents.

Speaker 11 So now you're encouraging grooming behavior, secrets between minors and adults who are supposed to be supervising them during the day, excluding the parents. I mean, it's true insanity.

Speaker 11 And our side laid down, took a nap, and said, don't pay any attention to this or you're a bigot. And that's, we fired no rhetorical bullets.
We kept our mouths shut.

Speaker 11 If anything, we said, oh, good for you. Okay.
Good for you. Right? Because in the beginning, some people were lying.

Speaker 11 Like Malcolm Gladwell recently came out and said he knew it was bullshit and he lied.

Speaker 11 I think most of us are on the field where I was in the initial days of these things, which was, I don't want to be a bully. And I saw trans people as an extension of LGB.

Speaker 11 And it was like, okay, you know, this is. something they're grappling with, a legit issue.
We shouldn't bully them.

Speaker 11 And it just turned out to be something very, very different than that. And I think now we're seeing what's real.
And if you don't have the courage now, I have no time for you.

Speaker 11 I mean, it's if you don't speak up now, there's something wrong with you. Okay, which leads me back to your story, Graham.
So you don't let up. You've lost your wife.
You've lost your colleagues.

Speaker 11 You lost this play, this musical, which didn't happen, even though you could have really used the money. And you're still going.

Speaker 11 You're not shutting up. You're like a dog with a bone.
And you send out three totally benign tweets, posts on X.

Speaker 11 I mean, I read them to the audience when you got arrested, but I'm going to reread them for today's audience. They were all in April, April 19th.

Speaker 11 One was, it showed a picture of a trans rights rally with the caption, a photo you can smell.

Speaker 11 One was the same day in reply to that picture and follow-up, you wrote, I hate them, misogynists and homophobes.

Speaker 7 Fuck them.

Speaker 11 And then April 20th, the next day, you posted, if a trans-identified male is in a female-only space, he is committing a violent abusive act.

Speaker 11 Make a scene, call the cops, and if all else fails, punch him in the balls.

Speaker 11 And these are the tweets that led to what happened to you last week. So you were in Arizona.
You've been living in Arizona.

Speaker 11 But you had to go back to the UK because you're in this legal dispute with this trans activist as a male pretending to be a female who you may not be able to say anything about it, but I can.

Speaker 11 So, this guy got in your face with this video camera at one of these events and seemed to be following you around and seemed to be invading your privacy and your space.

Speaker 11 And you flicked the phone out of the way and said something to him. And now he's suing you, claiming, oh, you know, he damaged my phone and damaged me and whatever.

Speaker 11 These trans activists, in my opinion, are absolute fucking lunatics. And the closer they come to you, the more you should run.

Speaker 11 I don't blame you for not wanting to be within the same arm space as this person, but that'll play out in the UK courts, however, it plays out. It's really not why you're here.

Speaker 11 You went over there because you had to in connection with that case.

Speaker 11 You landed Heathrow. Were you expecting any sort of problem?

Speaker 17 Well, when you said I hardly got out of the airport, I didn't get out of the plane. You know, the plane landed.
Yeah, yeah, the plane landed. Well, I got out of the plane.

Speaker 17 I just took a step out of the plane. But the plane landed and,

Speaker 17 you know, people were told to stay in their seats. And I thought something was up, you know,

Speaker 17 in terms of, you know, just some normal airport problem. And then

Speaker 17 they called my name out, you know, and as soon as they called my name,

Speaker 17 I sort of started to realize,

Speaker 17 I sort of knew what was happening because, you know, it's kind of what I was, it's something I expect, to be honest. I expect to be arrested by the police because they follow every single complaint.

Speaker 17 But here's the thing. I I was on my way back for a trial.
Now they must have known that. So they, I think, did it deliberately.

Speaker 17 And the way it works over here when you're arrested for, you know, free speech tweeting crimes is they just put you in a cell for as long as they can. So I was in a cell for something like 12 hours.

Speaker 17 And it's that's the punishment. We have a phrase over here among, you know, GC, gender critical in feminist,

Speaker 17 in feminist circles, the process is the punishment.

Speaker 17 And for eight years, you know, women have been put through this process, some of them have suffered far more than me, and uh, it's you know, the British police are just willing participants.

Speaker 17 I did think it was funny that, um, that the first thing all these Arizonian people saw when the plane landed was a comedy writer being arrested for tweets.

Speaker 17 It was the most perfect and appropriate welcome to the UK they could have got, really, you know. But uh, but yeah, so they brought me out, and

Speaker 17 I

Speaker 17 they said we want to speak to you. And I've been met by the police before at airports.

Speaker 17 I was met by the police in New Zealand and they were very kind, sweet to me, and they just wanted to know my movements so

Speaker 17 that they could provide an unmarked car just to keep an eye on things

Speaker 17 in case trans activists

Speaker 17 were a problem. But so I didn't immediately

Speaker 17 think they were going to arrest me. But they did ask me, they said, can we go somewhere private to speak? So we went down this kind of tunnel and through a doorway and they stood around me.

Speaker 17 And he said, your passport is on a wanted list or something or it was flagged up or something.

Speaker 17 And you're being arrested for,

Speaker 17 you know, a tweet. He only thought it was one, I think.
It was the one about punch him in the balls. And And I went a bit nuts because I just couldn't believe it.

Speaker 17 You know, they tried to, they were even going to handcuff me because I was so out of control. And I said, you're not, you're not going to put fucking cuffs on me for defending women's rights.

Speaker 17 And finally, they, they very kindly, I think, because I don't think, I don't blame the police for this. You know, the police don't believe any of this.

Speaker 17 The police, unfortunately, are just, I mean, you know, the old phrase, they're just following orders.

Speaker 17 And they have no idea what's going on. They don't understand this issue.
And so they're just doing what they're told. So, like, I calmed down.

Speaker 17 I started to get on quite quite well with the, with the officers. But then I, and then I was taken into a van

Speaker 17 because, because I asked them, please don't march me through the airport, you know? So they brought a van around on the tarmac or whatever you call it.

Speaker 12 And

Speaker 17 I went to it and I thought, oh,

Speaker 17 at least this is a bit, you know, civilized.

Speaker 17 And then I saw that I was going to be put in like a little white kind of corner of the van where you have to sit like this and you can't stretch out your legs.

Speaker 17 And I just thought, holy shit, they're really going to do this, you know?

Speaker 17 And then that just began a night of being processed,

Speaker 17 going into my cell. Luckily, I was exhausted from the flight because I could never sleep on planes.
So I slept in the cell and that killed a few hours.

Speaker 17 But I genuinely think the reason I was I was kept was,

Speaker 17 you know, process is the punishment. They just wanted to make me frightened of tweeting, of speaking my mind, you know, and that's what they ordered it.

Speaker 11 Do we know?

Speaker 17 I think it was a mid-level person. I don't think it was anyone big.

Speaker 17 I don't know really.

Speaker 11 But when you say the police aren't to blame, who is to blame?

Speaker 17 Oh, yeah. Well, you know, whoever ordered it is to blame.
I'm talking about the,

Speaker 17 you know, rank and file.

Speaker 17 Whoever ordered it is just an idiot, you know. I mean, this is blown back in their face so much better than I could ever have hoped.

Speaker 17 And it's been good it's been yeah it's been fantastic over here i'm getting thumbs up from cabbies i'm i'm i'm i'm getting lots of little secret smiles from people um

Speaker 17 it's been wonderful you know and they just as that's the thing about trans activists they always always overreach you know yes and what when they overreach that's when uh you know people start to sit up and take notice yeah in my opinion it's because they're crazy they're crazy they're not able to accurately gauge the situation and weigh risks and rewards.

Speaker 11 They are delusional. And so they think they're going to get a different outcome than they are.

Speaker 11 And it's because, in part, of the discussion we had where we rolled over and went to sleep for all those years.

Speaker 11 And they're used to Americans and English citizens doing that and people throughout the UK. And we're not doing that anymore.
So it's very frustrating to them.

Speaker 11 And it's leading to their own bad behavior and terrible results. So in a way, you know, you're a sacrificial lamb, Graham, but thank you because we need that.

Speaker 11 I mean, easy for me to say, but we do need that. So what, by the way, you're lucky because here in the United States, there's a very high likelihood you would have been subjected to a strip search.

Speaker 11 So let's be glad. It doesn't sound like you had to go through that.
But were they

Speaker 17 normally?

Speaker 17 Yeah, no, I think they would have been, that would have been more punishment for them if I'd been strip searched.

Speaker 12 Yeah, they were armed.

Speaker 17 But but but I but I must I actually must make it clear. It was very disturbing to see armed police officers, but it is normal for Heathrow officers to be armed.
Okay.

Speaker 11 But they had like one cop per limb and then an extra for like your head to keep your mouth shut, I guess. Like five on one.

Speaker 11 Like, truly, like you were some sort of terrorist is how it sounds to me. So they take you to the jail and then you wound up having heart problems.
Like your blood pressure soared.

Speaker 11 You were under a lot of stress. You wound up having to get referred for medical help.
So this is just further evidence of the level of stress.

Speaker 11 This is, this does not come without stress for you, you know, like

Speaker 11 it doesn't come without stress for anybody. Honestly, like I,

Speaker 11 I know a lot of people in media who are very outspoken on a lot of issues and people who my audience would think don't stress out. Like they, whatever, they keep coveting controversy.

Speaker 11 And I am here to tell you, they do stress out. They get stressed.
They just refuse to back down. Like there's just a certain kind of person that just says, I don't care.
Like, I will take it.

Speaker 11 And that's what you're going through from the sound of it. We do have some video of the arrest.

Speaker 11 It was posted via the sun. Let's watch a little bit of it here in SOT 4.

Speaker 11 It's odd. It is alleged that on the 19th of April, 2025.
It's alleged that on April 19th.

Speaker 11 On the grounds of sexual orientation.

Speaker 11 I can't tell you what the post yes he says.

Speaker 11 You fucking idiot, Graham says.

Speaker 11 I'm going to see you.

Speaker 22 Calm down. I'm going to fing up.
There's no need for it. There's no reason to it.

Speaker 22 Come on in quick. Calm it down.

Speaker 22 Please let go of it. I'm not going to be kicked off.
You don't

Speaker 22 for standing up for women's rights. Don't fuck me.

Speaker 11 Wow. How do you feel when you hear that?

Speaker 17 Well, I recorded it, you know.

Speaker 17 I luckily

Speaker 17 had the,

Speaker 17 you know, gumption to press record on my favorite transcription app.

Speaker 17 And yeah, you know, I only wish the sound had been better and people had heard more of it, you know.

Speaker 17 But again, you know, when I said I'll sue you all, it would have been very strange for me to sue the five cops who picked me up.

Speaker 17 But I was sort of, you know, I was so angry, I couldn't think straight, you know.

Speaker 17 But I am suing them now. I'm suing the police

Speaker 17 for wrongful arrest and I think something imprisonment, wrongful imprisonment or something like that.

Speaker 11 False imprisonment.

Speaker 17 Yeah, false imprisonment. Excuse me, yes.
And

Speaker 17 yeah, this is just going to...

Speaker 17 The brilliant thing is they were trying to silence me, but I think what might have happened is that I'm going to make them very nervous about arresting people for this type of thing in the future.

Speaker 11 They picked on the wrong mofo.

Speaker 17 Yeah, hopefully.

Speaker 11 Hopefully. Well, because you showed up to your court hearing in one of, like I mentioned, Billboard Chris, who's a hero, and he's constantly wearing these billboards.

Speaker 11 It's like the sandwich boards, the one in the front and the one in the back, speaking up for women. And that's how you showed up to your court hearing.
There's, right? Is it your court hearing?

Speaker 11 No, no.

Speaker 11 The front of it reads, there's no such thing as a transgender child on the front. Where was this, Graham?

Speaker 17 That was outside the magistrate's court. That was a friend of mine who's, I think his name is Chris, who actually has those boards.
And, oh, no, it's not Chris. It couldn't be Chris.

Speaker 17 It's someone else. Steve, I think.

Speaker 17 And he does the same. He's been influenced by Billboard Chris to do the same thing.

Speaker 17 And just like Billboard Chris, he gets punched and water thrown over him and uh all sorts of things by people who think they're good people you know it's uh he's very he's very brave very brave

Speaker 17 but i but i just grabbed this thing and put it up you know No, but that's good.

Speaker 11 What do you mean? You don't even take credit for doing that. That's a brave thing to do when you are being arrested and punished for speech.
You double down on the exact same speech.

Speaker 11 So here's the thing.

Speaker 17 It's very important to keep reminding people of the issues. They keep trying to focus on, you know, my conduct, my behavior, which has been influenced by everything I've been through.

Speaker 17 So I always try and break through that and say, no, this is about kids being sterilized and mutilated. This is about men in women's prisons and sports.

Speaker 17 This is an incredibly important issue, and everyone should be paying attention to it.

Speaker 11 My speech about the problem is not the problem. The problem is the problem.
Address that.

Speaker 11 Deal with that. So here, the ultimate irony of this this whole thing is that in the UK, they are letting

Speaker 11 child rapists go free. They're letting them out without bail.
They're letting them out without prison time.

Speaker 11 They are letting J.K. Rowling, who I mentioned a moment ago, get harassed with daily death and rape threats.
Kick them in the balls is the most controversial thing you said.

Speaker 11 And you're a comedy writer.

Speaker 11 J.K. Rowling, here's just a sampling.
I mean, we pulled just a few just because we were kind of curious. I'm just going to read for some of the audience what just a quick search brought up for J.K.

Speaker 11 Rowling. Bitch, I'll kill you.
Kill J.K. Rowling.
I'll kill J.K. Rowling myself.
I'm going to kill you, somebody says. The JK stands for just kill.

Speaker 11 I'm going to euthanize your old ass. I wish you two very nice pipe bombs in your mailbox.
I like the idea of bombs. Only I don't mail them to people I despise.
Take note.

Speaker 11 A pipe bomb would be too kind. Okay, forgive me, JK, for reading those out loud, but the point is nothing, nothing.
Where are those people? Not arrested. She's subjected to this daily.

Speaker 11 And those five cops don't show up to arrest those people.

Speaker 11 But you've got one benign tweet about if somebody goes into your daughter's space who's a male and won't get out, kick them in the balls, and five cops are on you, Graham. So what's going on?

Speaker 17 Well, you know, I mean,

Speaker 17 most of those accounts are anonymous. You know, there may even be far fewer of

Speaker 17 these people than we think, and they're just using multiple accounts. There's also a lot of kids who think it's their civil rights cause of this generation.

Speaker 17 And kids speak in very intemperate ways and say disgusting things without realizing

Speaker 17 what the person at the other end of it is facing. But it's always had that kind of imbalance.

Speaker 17 you know the people who are standing up against it tend to be tend to put their faces behind their opinions the people who are against it don't put their faces to their opinions.

Speaker 17 And also, they never even share their opinions. We're constantly asking questions like, What does trans mean?

Speaker 17 You know, it used to mean transsexual, but now it seems to mean transsexual, transvestite, and everything in between. You know, they cannot answer these questions, they cannot engage in debate.

Speaker 17 And because they can't engage in debate, their only tools are smears, violence,

Speaker 17 you know, legal threats.

Speaker 17 They have nothing. They have nothing.
This whole

Speaker 17 movement is based on nothing. It's a complete mass delusion.
It's complete

Speaker 17 social contingency.

Speaker 11 What's going to happen to you now, right? What's going to happen to you? Are you on paper? Are you facing prison time for this? If you get convicted, are you facing a trial?

Speaker 17 No, it's

Speaker 17 well, you know, whatever happens, you know, if we get a bad result, we're going to appeal

Speaker 17 and we'll just go through it all again. And again, the process is the punishment, you know.

Speaker 11 But do you have to go go through a criminal trial now?

Speaker 20 No,

Speaker 20 no.

Speaker 17 The last thing we're still actually in the current trial. I'm very nervous about saying too much about it, but we've got one day left on it.

Speaker 11 With the trans activist who's coming after you for the phone.

Speaker 17 Yes, and I have to come back at the end of October for that, you know, which really annoys me because I don't, I don't, at the moment, I don't really like being in this country.

Speaker 17 You know, I feel like I'm a target. And,

Speaker 17 you know, but I have to do it. So I'm going to do it.
And I'm, and I'm, I'm,

Speaker 17 I'm completely uh you know i have no doubts about anything i've done in this fight you know i have i you know anything any like those three tweets they picked that two of them weren't two of them weren't my best you know uh just you can do bad

Speaker 17 exactly angry but you know

Speaker 11 you weren't your most clever self Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 17 And that's another thing they do is they cherry pick things that make you look bad, you know.

Speaker 17 But the tweet about punching a man in the balls if he he comes into your into a female-only space, it is a violent and abusive act for a man to go into a woman's space.

Speaker 17 And any man, no matter how they identify, who wants to do that is highly suspect, you know. So

Speaker 17 I stand by everything I've said. I stand by everything I've done.
It's always been as a result of if I've ever done anything

Speaker 17 less than optimal, it's because I've been harassed to the point of insanity sometimes, you know. Well,

Speaker 11 if you're not going to have a trial, what does that mean? Are these just misdemeanor charges that you can plead to?

Speaker 11 How does this wrap up if not through a trial?

Speaker 17 It's magistrates' court. So

Speaker 17 there's one more day

Speaker 17 where we'll be bringing in more witnesses. And then the charges.

Speaker 11 No, no,

Speaker 11 not the transactivist case. The charges.

Speaker 17 Oh, the latest one.

Speaker 17 I don't think,

Speaker 17 I mean, they would be insane to pursue it. I'd say they're going to drop the charges pretty quick.
You know, they may, you know, I can't imagine they won't drop the charges.

Speaker 17 But if they do, it'll just be another chance for me to have a platform to try and tell people what's going on, to try and stop gender, like, you know, Wes Streeting over here is talking about doing a kind of experiment or I don't know how you test

Speaker 17 on whether puberty blockers are safe. We know they're not safe.
All the data is in.

Speaker 17 And WPATH, the organization that sets all these protocols is a bunch of lunatics i don't i know you follow redux megan yeah

Speaker 17 they discovered that w path on their website were linking to a site called the unich archives and the unoch archives is like a repository of short short pornographic stories

Speaker 17 about sorry short pornographic stories about castration okay good god something

Speaker 17 something like 4 000 stories or 40 I can't remember what it was were tagged minor

Speaker 11 That is so that means

Speaker 17 so that means that the people who who are setting up these protocols and their these protocols are all over the world Yes are also linking to a site that that is for men who are aroused by the idea of children cutting their penises off.

Speaker 17 It's it's

Speaker 17 that's double

Speaker 11 it's it's hard to actually understand unless you live it unless you're really neck deep in it and you see how sick this is. I only have a minute left, Graham.

Speaker 11 What's going to happen? Is the UK coming to its senses? I thought with the closing of Tavistock, with the CAS report, it was coming to its senses. I now have greater doubts.

Speaker 12 Yeah, well, I don't know.

Speaker 17 I mean, this, we always knew, I think it's coming to an end. The trans movement is coming to an end.
And we always knew that the last trashings would be the hardest on people, that

Speaker 17 they would become

Speaker 17 more vicious, they would overreach more.

Speaker 17 And so it's come to pass. You know, they're just trying everything they can.

Speaker 17 I'm just going to keep on tweeting and keep on doing my

Speaker 17 I'm sort of now a journalist and I have a substack that I keep up. And I'm just going to keep doing that until I'm sure it's not just dead, but buried and the earth has been salted.

Speaker 11 You know, this is because they tried to shut you up when they arrested you too, saying you couldn't tweet about the case. That's now off and you're allowed to talk about it.
That's why you're here.

Speaker 17 Oh, but I got a very funny thing. I can tell you, Megan, that's very short.
Sorry.

Speaker 17 They told me not to contact the victims. That's a that's

Speaker 11 my bail.

Speaker 17 The victims.

Speaker 17 There's no victims. There's no tweets.

Speaker 17 There's no one mentioned in the tweets. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 11 Ridiculous, Graham. Listen, we're going to continue watching it.
And all of us here in American media are very interested in this, in particular in the digital world.

Speaker 11 And the digital world is very powerful. powerful and we're watching.
And, you know, I go on TV in the UK all the time, and I'm certainly not going to shut up about this. They need to lay off of you.

Speaker 11 This is outrageous. We'll continue following Graham.
Thank you for your courage. Everybody, support Graham by buying his book.
It's called Tough Crowd, How I Made and Lost a Career in Comedy.

Speaker 11 Unbelievable. Rich and Charlie of National Review react next.

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Speaker 11 Joining me now, Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. Cook of National Review find all of their work by becoming an NR Plus subscriber today.

Speaker 11 Highly recommend becoming an NR Plus subscriber. Love National Review, guys.
Welcome back.

Speaker 11 I'm going to get to the biggest news story of the day, which is the murder of this poor Ukrainian refugee in Charlotte, North Carolina, in one second.

Speaker 11 But I just got to ask you, I'll start with you, Charlie, because I know you've posted a piece on NR for this about the Graham Linehan story.

Speaker 11 And actually, before I do, I want to tell the audience that he told us during the break that he's lost

Speaker 11 how many thousands of subscribers? A couple hundred thousand subscribers, or not subscribers, but followers on his ex account since he was arrested.

Speaker 11 These are woke leftist, I think, UK residents who are abandoning Graham because they didn't realize that he was pro-women's rights. And so go follow him.

Speaker 11 It's at Graham, at G Linner, L-I-N-N-E-R, at G Linner, L-I-N-N-E-R, so that we can make up the difference because he should not suffer in any way, shape, or form as a result of doing this.

Speaker 11 Charlie, can you believe this nonsense?

Speaker 23 Yes and no. Can I just say something very quickly, Megan, about Graham Linahan? Obviously, we're talking here about

Speaker 23 the ordeal he just went through and the views that he's expressed and so on. But this sometimes gets gets lost.
He is a genius. When I was a kid, he wrote this comedy series called Big Train.

Speaker 23 There's two seasons of it. It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
He wrote the IT crowd, he wrote black books. Obviously, he wrote Father Ted.

Speaker 23 This is a guy, it wasn't just that he threw away a career, he threw away the career to stand up for this. I mean,

Speaker 23 this is a man who is one of the funniest men in the history of British comedy. And I think maybe sometimes Americans, they wouldn't know that because the shows were often only on in England.

Speaker 23 But he is unbelievably talented.

Speaker 23 Someone who I grew up, you know, his name was on every great show that was on TV. Anyhow,

Speaker 23 well, yes and no. In the yes, I can believe it because Britain has bad free speech laws and no First Amendment.

Speaker 23 And there have been an increasing number of examples of this sort of illiberalism over the years. I've written a lot about them since I moved to the United States.

Speaker 23 No, in that this one felt a little bit different to me. It was not the product of a cop making a mistake in the heat of the moment or misinterpreting the law or overreacting.

Speaker 23 Some of the worst excesses we've seen have been that. This was premeditated.
This is deliberate. You can't arrest someone at an airport by mistake.
Five people showed up.

Speaker 23 They knew he was going to be there. They orchestrated this with IATA and the airline and the Heathrow Authority.

Speaker 23 You can't do this without a lot of planning. And in that respect, it felt to me me Soviet.
That was what you would expect out of the Soviet Union.

Speaker 23 Somebody flies in and then they're arrested for comments that they've made at a prior point.

Speaker 23 You know, historically, there are stupid arrests in Britain. Like when I was at Oxford, there was a guy who was arrested for telling a police officer his horse was gay.

Speaker 23 There's a guy who was arrested for

Speaker 23 singing kung fu fighting with an Asian person within the audience.

Speaker 23 There have been examples of people on the street who have been arrested for preaching the Old Testament and Muslims who've been arrested for preaching from the Quran.

Speaker 23 And these generally involve a police officer who has an agenda or who makes a mistake. But that's not what happened here.
This had to come up from relatively high up

Speaker 23 in the Metropolitan Police Authority and has to have been discussed and debated and then executed. And that's where it felt to me unbelievable.

Speaker 11 It is these Muslims. I mean, I realize we're on here all the time, the three of us, and you guys at NR on your own, talking about the erosion of free speech in America too often at too many turns.

Speaker 11 And yet, thank God, Rich, we have the First Amendment because truly, like, this could not happen here with impunity.

Speaker 11 This would be such a national firestorm if they, if the cops actually arrested one of the three of us, let's say, for tweets like he posted. Totally anodyne, benign tweets.

Speaker 24 Yeah, totally.

Speaker 24 I was thinking exactly the same same thing thank god for george mason and the bill of rights and those founders who thought that the structure of the constitution was enough to protect our liberties were wrong you needed to write it in there in in black and white and that's why we've seen backsliding certainly in the culture of free speech we can't we can't go there not not as long as we have a first amendment a supreme court that's committed to it i i don't know this guy's work because i'm i'm an american but i was just struck what a self-effacing charming thoughtful guy and it's so dystopian right if george wall orwell had written this in a novel, you know, 40 or 50 years ago, no, that's not going to happen.

Speaker 24 That can never happen here in England in the cradle of liberty. You know, all our liberties actually have their roots in English thought and practices.
They're going to, they're going to do this.

Speaker 24 They're going to arrest this guy like he's an arms dealer coming off the plane because of some tweets they don't like.

Speaker 24 And sure, as he said, you know, punch him in the balls isn't maybe is not his most charming or clever tweet, but he's positing a situation where this biological male is harassing harassing people or ogling women in the dressing room.

Speaker 24 And it's not incitement. It's not anywhere close to incitement.
Not anywhere close. Yes, this is really disturbing.

Speaker 17 And

Speaker 24 he's handling it with such grace.

Speaker 11 I know, notwithstanding the enormous personal toll. I mean, everyone abandoned him.

Speaker 11 His cowardly colleagues, nobody, nobody has stood by him, which is why I'm very glad he's moved to the United States like Charlie.

Speaker 11 And I hope he eventually becomes an American citizen and enjoys the full fruit and flower of the First Amendment or what's left of it after those of us who have been defending it continue our battles.

Speaker 11 Okay, let's keep going because there is a huge story out of North Carolina today. I want to bring the audience up to speed on the facts around it.

Speaker 11 So something terrible happened in Charlotte, North Carolina. Undoubtedly, most of the audience has heard about it now because

Speaker 11 if you're listening to this show,

Speaker 11 you have the right news sources.

Speaker 11 It's something that happened a couple of weeks ago, but it just hit the press. You wouldn't know anything about it if you solely read or watched legacy media outlets.
Okay, nothing.

Speaker 11 The young woman's name is Irina Zarutska. And this young woman was 23 years old.
She was born in Kyiv, Ukraine. And she came to the United States in 2022 with her family trying to seek a better life.

Speaker 11 They were fleeing the war that Vladimir Putin unleashed on the Ukraine. And she was murdered here.

Speaker 11 in Charlotte, North Carolina on August 22nd on her way home from a job she had had obtained at a local pizzeria. Now, this woman is absolutely stunning.

Speaker 11 She looks like Marilyn Monroe to me.

Speaker 11 She could have been modeling, she could have been doing anything to make money, but she took a job at a local pizzeria and was showing up, doing shift work, just trying to pay her bills and make her way in the United States quietly and without much fanfare.

Speaker 11 And then, this past Friday, surveillance video was released showing her being stabbed to death by a man with a long criminal wrap sheet

Speaker 11 and multiple encounters with the criminal justice system. That video was released to local news outlets.
We're going to walk you through it and the timeline of how things unfolded.

Speaker 11 The suspect's name is DeCarlos Brown Jr. He's 34.
Listening audience, we're showing the video here. He's in a red hoodie sweatshirt.
He's a black man with long black dreads.

Speaker 11 He was on the train first sitting with no one in front of him, next to him, or behind him.

Speaker 11 He is not seen on the video having any interaction with any other riders, just sitting alone, but looking a little agitated at times. At the next stop, Zaritska boards the train.

Speaker 11 She is a white woman with blonde hair and she's in her pizzeria uniform wearing a baseball cap. She sits in the row right in front of Brown.
She has her phone with her and headphones in her ears.

Speaker 11 Just a side note, honestly, like in today's day and age, it's dangerous to have the headphones in and not know what's going on behind you.

Speaker 11 I'm sorry to say that I'm not blaming her in any way, of course, but just as a safety measure, just don't do that. You just don't know.

Speaker 11 You know, I'm sorry, but there's too much crime in America right now to do that. Keep your ears open so you know what's happening about you.
Unfortunately, that's our reality.

Speaker 11 She's minding her own business. There's no interaction between the two of them whatsoever.
They ride along for another four minutes with nothing happening.

Speaker 11 Then at 9:50 p.m., Brown is seen reaching into his hoodie, pulling out a pocket knife, a small pocket knife. This is zoomed in video, courtesy of the local CBS outlet.
You're seeing him unfold it.

Speaker 11 And you see him unfolding the knife, but no one notices a thing. Out of nowhere.
Truly, it seems like it's out of nowhere. Brown then stands up.

Speaker 11 He pulls his arm back as far as it can go to gain force.

Speaker 11 And from behind, with the young woman completely unaware of what was about to happen to her, he begins stabbing her, including three times, at least once, directly into the neck.

Speaker 11 She did not stand a chance. She had no opportunity to defend herself.
She clearly had no idea she was in danger at all.

Speaker 11 According to a local reporter who saw the full footage, Zarutska immediately grabs her neck and looks at the suspect as he walks away.

Speaker 11 The local news outlets which received the video from the Transit Authority did not release to the public the moment of the attack or what happens in this section immediately after,

Speaker 11 which honestly, I don't understand. It's not their job to protect us from the facts.

Speaker 11 If you you want to say, you know, we on the CBS Evening News aren't going to show you the exact moment of violence, that's an editorial call.

Speaker 11 But for all of the news outlets to not release it at all is strange to me. It's an incident that happened and the specifics of it may matter.
And we actually

Speaker 11 had a hard time getting our hands on the full video. Now, it's unclear if writers around the victim even noticed or saw the knifing.
Again, everyone's on their phones. No one's paying attention.

Speaker 11 And most of these people appear to have headphones on i get it you want to zone out you don't want people talking to you you kind of want to like do your own thing but it's truly a safety measure to have your headphones off and be able to listen and hear what's going on around you in these public transit uh vehicles the local cbs affiliate reports one passenger did react others followed but we don't see exactly how it unfolded the reaction We are shown Brown's actions after the attack.

Speaker 11 Now, the whole thing goes down in 30 seconds, so this has got to be not long after.

Speaker 11 He walks up to a train door, you see blood dripping onto the floor, apparently from the knife, which is still on him.

Speaker 11 Some riders notice the blood, but it appears they really have no idea that an attack just happened. Brown then takes off the red hoodie.

Speaker 11 He appears to wrap the bloody knife up inside the hoodie, and Brown is then shown leaving the train. Per local CBS, he left the train again about 30 seconds after the knife attack.

Speaker 11 That's how quickly this whole thing went down. And seconds after Brown leaves the train, you do hear someone far off in the background scream, oh my God,

Speaker 11 and scream the F-word. Here's that moment.

Speaker 11 It certainly sounds like somebody's found the victim. Someone did call law enforcement.

Speaker 11 Spectrum News in Charlotte reporting transit security guards were on the train at the time of the attack, but in the car just ahead of Zaritska's when she was attacked.

Speaker 11 Brown was arrested a short time later. You're not going to be surprised to hear the guy's got 14 previous court cases in Mecklenburg County, which includes Charlotte.

Speaker 11 He was sent to prison in 2015 for robbery with a dangerous weapon, but was released a year early in 2020. This past January, he was arrested for misuse of the 911 system.

Speaker 11 And here's where things get interesting. During that incident, Brown told police he had man-made material inside his body that was controlling him.

Speaker 11 Per the ABC local outlet in Charlotte, a magistrate judge allowed Brown to be released from jail without paying anything on the written promise that he would show up to his next court appearance.

Speaker 11 Then in July, another judge ordered a mental health evaluation, but again, he was allowed to be out on the streets. He clearly was not right in the head.

Speaker 11 And you had not one, but two judges recently, a month before the murder, send him back out there. Go ahead, right back out there.

Speaker 11 There are so many angles to this story. It's an absolute disgrace that the national media remains silent about this.

Speaker 11 Political news outlet Axios even has the gall to blame MAGA Republicans for covering it.

Speaker 11 They're upset about the numerous surveillance cameras in America now that happen to catch these incidents so that the maggot Republicans can turn them into an issue.

Speaker 11 That's what they see this story about. I mean, guys, Rich and Charlie, remain with me.

Speaker 11 There's just no question in my mind. This story for the media is about many uncomfortable narratives that they'd rather not touch.

Speaker 11 Chief among them, a black man hacked to death, a young, beautiful, white, blonde woman right on camera, and they don't want to touch it because that plays into a narrative with which they're very uncomfortable rich

Speaker 24 yeah absolutely so the media has has had two modes here so far first ignore the story second blame conservatives for paying attention to the story and we just shouldn't look through these at these crime stories through a racialized lens and only pay attention if it's a white perpetrator alleged perpetrator and a black victim and ignore them if it's reverse that's perverse it's wrong it's un-American and by the way where was the daniel penny in this train right the the uh new york city spent all these resources trying to nail that guy to the wall for doing the right thing and stopping potentially something like this happening and the charlotte mayer has been a disgrace in what she she said she's emphasized uh you know she said we can't wrest our way out of this and we need mental more mental health services so this guy was clearly a schizophrenic um and was allowed to walk the street and um be homeless and uh menace people and then commit this act of homicide the mental health service should have been arresting him, putting in jail, ascertaining he had mental health problems, then sending him to an institution where he's not released until he's either taking his meds and or it's ascertained he's okay and can be in the community again.

Speaker 24 You cannot let seriously mentally ill people just wander the streets. It's terrible for them.
It's terrible for public order.

Speaker 24 And in these rare cases like this, it is a dire threat to other individuals. And I'll just add, the mother seems to have done the right thing.

Speaker 24 As many families like this with untreated schizophrenics, they don't know what to do. You know, their son or daughter is mouldering away in the basement.

Speaker 24 They go to sleep at night, hoping their son or daughter won't stab them in their beds.

Speaker 24 It's happened to Cray Deeds, by the way, a politician in Virginia several years ago, untreated son with mental illness. So they have a choice.
You know, do they, they just go along with it?

Speaker 24 Do they kick the person out of the house? That's what the mother did here. Do they make up a story to try to get the police come and arrest them and hope they'll get no help?

Speaker 24 And it's because for the last 50 or 60 years, we decided to empty the institutions.

Speaker 24 And we don't have the right to say when someone's crazy, we don't have the right to tell them you have to take your meds.

Speaker 24 And we don't have the right to tell them, no, you're not sleeping on the streets. You're not wandering subway cars.

Speaker 24 We lost that social self-confidence. And I despair this, Megan, this is the same set of circumstance.
Every single subway shover in New York City, it happens again and again and again.

Speaker 24 And I just despair of when we'll actually get it and do something about it.

Speaker 11 Yeah, no, I've said many times in the wake of these school shootings, and I'll say it again here: we need more facilities to which loving parents would willingly send their children to have them committed, even an adult child like this guy was.

Speaker 11 We need some of the money we're shipping to God knows where or spending on God knows what here.

Speaker 11 Some of the savings maybe from Doge could be redirected to build such a facility to which a loving parent would willingly send their child.

Speaker 11 Because even if we loosen the spigot on institutionalization, it's not going to help if it's basically a hardcore jail that a loving parent would say, well, I don't want him to go there.

Speaker 11 I know it's going to happen. He's going to wind up dead there.
But if we can build a facility that is large part jail, but also mental health institution that's not completely

Speaker 11 awful, we'll have more parents calling it and shipping it there. And I do think taxpayers would pay for this.
I really do.

Speaker 11 Did that mother want him homeless on the streets no it's because there's no alternative so she she kicked him out of the house and apparently he had also assaulted uh his sister so this is just a terrible situation we know the solution you know we just need the will to do it it always follows that pattern the charl uh charlie rich mentions the mayor the charlotte mayor and very interestingly this woman's name is it's basically vile her name is vile it's vi lyles that's her name vi lyles so i'm just going to call her vile because that's what she is, based on this response she's given.

Speaker 11 She's a Democrat. She's been mayor since 2017.
She last won re-election with 68% of the vote. And this is the statement she released right after the attack.

Speaker 11 She did not use the victim's name, even though it was out there. It wasn't like a matter of privacy.
The parents knew that everybody knew she'd been killed. It happened on August 22nd.

Speaker 11 First and foremost, my thoughts and prayers go out to the young woman's family and friends. While I do not know the specifics of the man's medical record, what I have come to understand is that

Speaker 11 he has long struggled with with mental health and appears to have suffered a crisis. This was the unfortunate and tragic outcome.

Speaker 11 Tragic incidents like these should force us to look at what we are doing across our community to address root causes. She sounds like Joe Biden trying to solve, quote unquote, the immigration

Speaker 11 problem by addressing root causes, which is just a dodge for doing absolutely nothing at all. We will never arrest our way out.

Speaker 11 issues such as homelessness and mental health. Well, we will never arrest our way out of issues such as homelessness and mental health.

Speaker 11 I want to be clear that I'm not villainizing those who struggle with their mental health. What's the matter with this woman? Vile, vile, that's not the issue.
Or those who are unhoused.

Speaker 11 Mental health disease is just that, a disease like any other that needs to be treated with the same compassion, diligence, and commitment as cancer or heart disease.

Speaker 11 Our community community must work to address the underlying issue of access to mental health care.

Speaker 11 Charlie, please help me. Please help Vial.

Speaker 23 All right, well, where to start?

Speaker 23 So I agree with everything that you both said on mental health, but I would note that the cases that people bring up in opposition to the position that you both outlined usually involve somebody who's quite clearly crazy but hasn't really done anything.

Speaker 23 But this person had, we don't need to get even to the mental health question

Speaker 23 because this person had been arrested for breaking and entering, for you know, robbery with a firearm, for possession of a firearm as a felon, for assault, for material threats.

Speaker 23 So, that side question of who is crazy and who gets to decide doesn't need to be reached here.

Speaker 23 The person should have been charged and convicted of other violent crimes.

Speaker 23 The idea, as a result, that we can't arrest our way out of this is preposterous. That's precisely what we literally should have done in this case.
That's what should have happened in North Carolina.

Speaker 23 We should have arrested our way out of this murder. That person should not have been free.

Speaker 23 Now, the Mayor Vial, as you put it, is

Speaker 23 reminds me, you know, know that scene in the Truman show

Speaker 11 where

Speaker 23 Truman's wife starts doing a commercial, essentially. And he says, Who are you talking to? What are you talking about? It's so incongruous to the moment.

Speaker 23 I don't know why she's saying those things in response to this case. It's utterly incongruous.
It almost feels like she's a hostage.

Speaker 23 Like she, as a result of political affiliations or sort of ideological brainwashing, is mandated

Speaker 23 to spew this garbage about not villainizing this person or understanding we need to look at root causes or wanting to spend more money on mental health or the unhoused.

Speaker 23 That is not what is important here. And if she or progressives or Democrats in general think that this view is held only by so-called MAGA Republicans, they're out of their minds.

Speaker 23 There are two groups here. There are groups who are obsessed with this strange language, the language that you just echoed.

Speaker 23 And then there is everyone else. This is not left-right, this is not conservative, progressive, this is not Democrat, Republican, Northern, Southern, whatever.
This is every single person.

Speaker 23 And then the weirdos. This is a pre-political question.

Speaker 23 There is just not a person I know in the real world, and I know a lot of people on the left, who would respond to this in the way that this mayor did. It is just utterly bizarre.

Speaker 23 So yes, we can arrest our way out of this happening. Yes, we can judge and villainize the person who did this.

Speaker 23 Yes, she ought to reflect, as she acknowledged, on what there is to learn here. But no, it is not that we need to look at the root causes here.
That is meaningless nonsense.

Speaker 23 We need to take very seriously people who cause chaos and crime in our cities.

Speaker 23 And look, as you know, from I haven't been on your show a few times, I am procedurally a small L liberal on criminal justice questions.

Speaker 23 I think it is very important that at the investigation and arrest and trial stages that we follow the Constitution and the law to the letter.

Speaker 23 I love presumption of innocence and the whole suite of American,

Speaker 23 they're not innovations, but they were written down, which was an innovation. What I do not like is that bleeding over into doing nothing about crime.
They're not inconsistent.

Speaker 23 You can have a perfectly constitutional response to serious, especially violent crime and proper sentencing and deal with these people and lock them away from the public.

Speaker 23 And what I worry about, Megan, aside from the obvious, which is that these things will keep happening, is that the public won't put up with this.

Speaker 23 So if you don't do your job as a government, which is what's happened here, and if you don't respond to this in the way that you should, which is what's happened here, Americans will start to lose interest in those constitutional niceties.

Speaker 23 They won't care about it because they're going to really take an interest in their family and their friends being safe on buses and in the streets or anywhere.

Speaker 23 So if we want to preserve all the stuff that I like, and I really think we should, we also have to get serious about sentencing.

Speaker 23 We also have to get serious about not releasing people once we've arrested them for violent crime without a charge, because otherwise people will take it into their own hands. And frankly,

Speaker 23 that's the logical response.

Speaker 17 So I'm totally outraged by this.

Speaker 11 To hear this mayor's reaction suggests she just doesn't get it, Rich. I mean, and she is a loon.
The New York Post this morning had a piece up writing about how there have been a bunch of GoFundMes.

Speaker 11 for the defendant here, which GoFundMe, thankfully, is taking down. But here's some of the justification by those who started the GoFundMe's on why they're doing it.

Speaker 11 Quote, while what happened on the blue line was a tragedy, what we mustn't lose sight of is the fact that DeClaros Brown Jr.

Speaker 11 was failed categorically by the judicial system and the mental health services of North Carolina, and as such is not entirely to blame for what happened, one page claimed.

Speaker 11 The caption underneath his picture reads, raise funds to stop the injustice against DeCarlos Brown Jr., the injustice against him,

Speaker 11 so that now they're having to knock these down like a whack-a-mole. And I'll give you one more, okay?

Speaker 11 It's not just absolute loons.

Speaker 11 It's some people who are respected on the left, like Nicole Hannah Jones, who tweets out the following or posts the following on Blue Sky, which, by the way, is really struggling.

Speaker 11 The train stabbing in Charlotte was awful. It's no more awful than schoolchildren being shot down in a church.
Journalists should not allow ourselves to become tools of propaganda.

Speaker 11 If Charlotte is a product of policies, then so was Minneapolis. Outrage should not drive our coverage.
She went on.

Speaker 11 How we cover crime at a time when crime is being used as a pretext to occupy American cities with the U.S. military is critical.
Do we report the news or drive it?

Speaker 11 So she doesn't want to focus on what happened in Charlotte because she thinks MAGA Republicans are going to use it as an excuse for Trump to drop the National Guard in Charlotte.

Speaker 11 And I have to say, if I'm a white woman with blonde hair like the woman who was killed, if I were walking around Charlotte right now, I think I'd say that's fine with me.

Speaker 11 I wish my governor would ask for the help so that we could have additional safety and security forces here.

Speaker 24 Yeah, absolutely. That's clearly the politics of it.
And look, she contradicts herself right at the beginning. If these things are equally awful and terrible, then we should focus on both, right?

Speaker 24 But she doesn't want to because she fears focusing on one,

Speaker 24 this crime and this light rail car will lead to results she doesn't like, namely federal forces who might deal with the problem, right?

Speaker 24 So, you know, I think that the governor would need to call on Trump to send the National Guard there. But what you said, Megan, really struck me.

Speaker 11 I did say that.

Speaker 24 Don't wear your headphones, you know, your earbuds on a train.

Speaker 24 That's the mindset. And a lot of people are going to have that mindset.

Speaker 24 This just goes to, it doesn't matter whether, I don't know, crime is declining on this commuter trains, down 10% or whatever numbers they come up with. If you have to think about it,

Speaker 24 this is a serious public issue. No one should have to go through that thought process.
I have to be hyper-aware of everything that's happening

Speaker 24 on this train. And I can't even listen to something else because I might be stabbed in the neck.

Speaker 24 that's awful it should be denounced by everyone everyone should want to do their utmost uh to stop it and just just final point um most of the people who are responsible for most of the crime are known to authorities and it's a matter of public will whether you're going to deal with them uh or not gang bangers none of them uh all of a sudden one day just become a gang banger right they they're guilty of all sorts of offenses and assaults and violent crimes before they start murdering people arrest them and lock them up and you keep them in jail and you know what they can't harm anyone in the general population same here

Speaker 24 same case here with people who are deranged and have these criminal tendencies it's a long long long rap sheet and just everyone passed them along and said oh he's going to get treatment or you know agree to do this or that no one actually took the effort to say no we need we know all we need to know we have the rap sheet you're either staying in jail or you're going to some other form of confinement again it's just a matter of public will the media had something

Speaker 11 well let me just make this point and then yes but the media has been absolutely disgusting in the way they've ignored the story.

Speaker 11 As of Sunday, there was zero coverage on the AP, PBS, New York Times, NPR, CNN, Washington Post, MSNBC. Zero.

Speaker 12 Zero.

Speaker 11 I mean, I hardly need remind you of the coverage we had after George Floyd was killed by Derek Chauvin.

Speaker 11 And let's face it, this is a pattern. You know, look what happened down in Texas with Carmelo Anthony, the black defendant

Speaker 11 who killed a young white boy who is in high school. Same attempted blackout.
They did not want to discuss it because race is first and foremost.

Speaker 11 And yet, if you switched it, if this guy, it's the South.

Speaker 11 So if this guy, this killer, were a white guy who was wearing a MAGA hat, killing a black woman who had fled oppression from some other country.

Speaker 11 Can you imagine this would be George Floyd all over again?

Speaker 11 It would be everywhere. They won't cover it because it's black on white crime.

Speaker 11 In particular, a beautiful young blonde white woman, that's the last person the left wants to feel sorry for, literally the last, even though she's from Ukraine, which normally would engender some sympathy from them.

Speaker 11 I mean, the irony, of course, the irony, this young woman fleeing her possible death in Ukraine. She was worried about getting murdered by Russians.

Speaker 11 Says she got murdered by an American loon on a train car who was killed as a result of American policy. Let's face it, directly as a result of American policy.

Speaker 11 So it's the race thing. But then, on top of it, they do not want to talk about a homeless,

Speaker 11 mentally deranged man committing crime, Charles, because they have no solution, no real solution for that.

Speaker 11 So instead, we get the Axios article from Mark Caputo talking about MAGA influencers drawing repeated attention to violent attacks after the rising number of surveillance cameras has made them more accessible, quote, has become a big accelerant in these cases.

Speaker 23 The cameras are creating the crime, are they, rather than capturing it?

Speaker 23 Nicole Hannah Jones, you quoted her, that makes me crazy.

Speaker 23 And it ties in to the Axios piece as well, because what she's trying to do there is intimate that there is a double standard in the way that so-called mega-Republicans or conservatives in general look at these two cases.

Speaker 23 When actually the only double standard is on the left and in the mainstream press. So you have this guy in Charlotte who murders this lady.

Speaker 23 If conservatives had responded to it by saying now it's time to ban knives, then Nicole Hannah Jones would have a point.

Speaker 17 But they didn't. No one said that.

Speaker 23 No one said it was the knife that did it, which is the same as the shooting in Minnesota where conservatives said, no, no, the problem was not the gun.

Speaker 23 What did conservatives think the problem was in Minnesota? And in fact, in Charlotte? People who were mentally ill not being treated.

Speaker 23 Now, I don't think in Minnesota the perpetrator was on the police's radar in quite the way that the guy was in Charlotte. But had he been, there would have been no double standard in the reaction.

Speaker 23 The argument would have been exactly the same. Can we do something about this, please?

Speaker 23 Not can we take away people's weapons, not can we take away people's constitutional rights, but the problem is the person who did it and the authorities' unwillingness or refusal or inability inability to deal with that?

Speaker 23 So, actually, the only double standard left is that in one case, we got wall-to-wall coverage. Well, until the perpetrator in Minnesota turned out to be someone the press wished it had not been.

Speaker 23 Exactly. And in the other case, it was covered up completely.
It's not conservatives who have done anything here other than said, could we please talk about this crime?

Speaker 23 Could we please talk about the victim as if she matters and not the guy who did it? So that is so cheap. It is actually so offensive to have it pinned on the people who noticed that this happened.

Speaker 23 And again, blaming cameras.

Speaker 17 I mean,

Speaker 23 it's good that we have cameras that are catching crimes.

Speaker 23 If the implication is that prior to the cameras, lots more crimes happened on public transport around the country, but we didn't know about it, then God bless the cameras because we finally at least have a way of working out how much crime is happening.

Speaker 11 It's weird, Rich. I don't remember them lamenting like police body cams after George Floyd was dead.
I don't remember them saying, oh, the problem is we caught it on camera.

Speaker 11 Not, you know, trust us, crime is way down in Minneapolis. You're just being misled by those damn cameras that the cops happen to be wearing.
But this Mark Caputo, he didn't write that article then.

Speaker 11 Now he writes about how the video is easily shared or leaked and can instantly pollinate across social media.

Speaker 11 Again, had no problem when that happened after George Floyd and going on as follows, just because he wanted to make it into a MAGA issue as opposed to what it is, all the issues we've been discussing.

Speaker 24 Yeah, I think it's a public service that this video is out, right? I mean, video is incredibly powerful. We knew about the story.

Speaker 24 The story had been reported that it happened, but it doesn't hit anyone the same way as actually seeing

Speaker 24 what occurred in real time on the video. I mean, it's like a horror movie, right? It's unfathomable.
So I don't know why we'd want to

Speaker 24 suppress the video.

Speaker 24 Maybe you don't share the most gruesome parts, but I think all of it should be available for news outlets to make that decision and just one last thing on on social services and root causes on this megan people who who say that must have never known anyone who has a serious mental illness because this guy in charlotte you could have given him a free ten thousand dollar a month luxury apartment in downtown uh charlotte with a high rising on the 19th floor and he wouldn't have lived there right he would have thought it was a plot and he was being controlled by radio waves and he would have wandered the streets and gone on the the the the trains and harassed people and committed crimes because he's out of his mind.

Speaker 24 He needs to be told what to do until he gets help. So it's so weird that progressives

Speaker 24 have such a tendency to mandate things and be coercive, except for in two areas, right? Locking up criminals and making sure that mentally ill people aren't unhoused. And that's the other thing.

Speaker 24 They let them walk the streets and then they become part of this privileged group, the unhoused. They're supposedly victims that you can't do anything about.
It's just insane.

Speaker 11 Well, here's the capper, okay, because he did, he made that bizarre 911 call

Speaker 11 over the summer, and it was obvious that this was a lunatic, right?

Speaker 11 I mean, I've got man-made material inside my body that's controlling me as I eat, walk, and talk, according to an affidavit that was filed in support of charges. And

Speaker 11 so in July of 2025, after that charge was brought against him,

Speaker 11 his lawyer,

Speaker 11 raised the question of his mental capacity to stand trial. And there was a court-ordered forensic evaluation pending at the time of the incident.

Speaker 11 His mother said he's got schizophrenia and that she tried to get him help.

Speaker 11 The local ABC affiliate reports that the judge, Roy Wiggins, ordered a mental health evaluation, but allowed Brown to be out on the streets while it was conducted, independency of that evaluation and the trial.

Speaker 11 Notwithstanding his long criminal history, the 14 arrests, the bizarre phone call, he sent him back out to go murder that girl. I'm sorry, that's what he did.

Speaker 11 And now, and now that's the same judge who has this case, the first degree murder case that's just been brought against DeCarlos Brown. And guess what? He denied Bond.

Speaker 11 He denied Bond after the victim's family pleaded for him to remain in jail. But that is unbelievable.

Speaker 11 And right now, Brown's lawyer is saying he's going to file a motion for a mental health evaluation of his competency to see if he can stand trial because of his long history of mental health issues.

Speaker 11 They're considering an insanity defense. I mean, that is just chef's kiss, chef's kiss.
He's in front of this same judge for mental health issues.

Speaker 11 The judge says, oh, we'll evaluate, but go out and do whatever you want to do while we evaluate. What if we find you're an insane lunatic who's not safe to be out there?

Speaker 11 Oh, well, I guess that's Irena's problem.

Speaker 11 And now that he's committed first-degree murder, snuffing out this 22-year-old life with everything in front of her, now we're going to hold you without bond because, you know, geez, you seem like a danger.

Speaker 11 And of course, the final cherry on top, the defense will be insanity.

Speaker 11 He's not competent to stand trial. It's like, no wonder people are getting murdered.
One final point before we take a quick break.

Speaker 11 So as you guys may know, I had some serious security problems when I was relatively new into television. And we always have to worry about it, but like there were some active issues early on.
And

Speaker 11 the guards who were with me did tell me, number one,

Speaker 11 never have those headphones on. You know, back then, it was not yet AirPods, but never have those headphones out when you're in public transportation or walking down the sidewalk.
You need your ears.

Speaker 11 You'll hear the danger before you'll see the danger in a lot of cases. And secondly, they said,

Speaker 11 don't walk looking at your phone. Do not walk down the sidewalk or to your car in a parking garage looking at your phone because you just never know.

Speaker 11 These are modern day distractions that could potentially prove unsafe. And I agree with you, Rich.
It's unfortunate that we have to think like that.

Speaker 11 But young women in particular are very used to being the subjects of men's anger and violence. They just are.
You know, like we walk down the street at night in D.C. in a way that you guys,

Speaker 11 you know, not in all circumstances, would walk down. And so we're used to having to take these precautions.

Speaker 11 Part of me feels like this poor girl was from Ukraine. I don't know.
Maybe she trusted too much in the United States of America.

Speaker 11 I don't think we deserved her trust. I'm very sorry for her.

Speaker 24 Working at pizza, working at a pizza place, right? Kind of first rung up in,

Speaker 11 you know, making a career in America, doing all the right right things and yeah it's not not from what we know like leeching off the system you know coming here getting a job humbling herself i mean look at her beautiful face truly she could have been on the cover of a thousand magazines she's spectacular looking but there she is in a pizza parlor working hard the the The pizza parlor put out a beautiful statement on her behalf saying she was the nicest person.

Speaker 11 She was so kind to everybody. They have a candle burning there in her memory.
And instead, this Cretan who murdered her is the one whose name we're going to remember. Guys, stand by.
Quick break.

Speaker 11 Back with Rich and Charlie after this.

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And you cannot afford to wait for help.

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Speaker 16 Proposition 50 threatens what voters built. California voters approved an independent commission that spent thousands of hours creating fair election districts where all people are represented.

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Protect your vote and democracy. Vote no on Prop 50.

Speaker 16 Add paid for by no on Prop 50. Protect Voters First, sponsored by Hold Politicians Accountable, Ad Committee's top funder Charles Munger Jr.

Speaker 1 This is Marshawn Lynch.

Speaker 3 You and I make decisions every every day, but on prize picks, being right can get you paid.

Speaker 1 So I'm here to make sure you don't miss any of the action this football season.

Speaker 4 With prize picks, it's good to be right.

Speaker 5 Download the Prize Picks app today and use code Pandora to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code Pandora to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.

Speaker 6 Prize picks, it's good to be right.

Speaker 10 Must be present in certain states, visit prizepicks.com for restrictions and details.

Speaker 11 I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

Speaker 11 It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today.

Speaker 11 You can catch the Megan Kelly Show on Triumph, a Sirius XM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr.

Speaker 11 Laura, Flynn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megan Kelly. You can stream the Megan Kelly Show on SiriXM at home or anywhere you are, no car required.
I do it all the time.

Speaker 11 I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad-free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast, and more.
Subscribe now, get your first three months for free.

Speaker 25 Go to SiriusXM.com/slash MK Show to subscribe and get three months free. That's seriousxm.com/slash MK Show and get three months free.
Offer details apply.

Speaker 11 You remember when I went to space with my fellow astronauts, Sarah and Maureen Callahan, and we had mugs made.

Speaker 11 I'm drinking out of one right now. It reads, I'm inspirational.
That's a quote of Gail King,

Speaker 11 who was busy telling us how inspirational she was after her space flight that lasted a few seconds.

Speaker 11 And I don't know, can you still get these on the MK website? You might be able to still get these. Go check them out.
I give them out as party favors. I I have hats.
They're super fun.

Speaker 11 You'll laugh.

Speaker 11 You know what I find them very good at? Like the mugs and the hats? You know, when you want to bring a hostess gift, you know, want to bring like a damn bottle of wine that nobody really wants?

Speaker 11 That's bring that. That's fun.
Conversation piece.

Speaker 11 Okay, back with me now, Rich Lowry and Charles Cook of National Review, who are going to be joining me in Atlanta in November on the Megan Kelly Live Tour. We're taking the show on the road.

Speaker 11 Go find out more now at megankelly.com and learn how you can get tickets.

Speaker 11 If you want to see these two guys in Atlanta, and you should, go get tickets now because I have a feeling those will sell out fast. Guys, thanks for, first of all, for doing that.

Speaker 11 I know it's always a problem

Speaker 11 where you got to get an airplane, you got to travel, but I really appreciate it.

Speaker 24 Yeah, we're huge in Atlanta, so we're doing you a big favor, Megan.

Speaker 11 Well, that's like kind of in Charlie's backyard, but that's a hike for you, Rich.

Speaker 12 I appreciate it.

Speaker 23 I don't live in Atlanta, Megan, either. The second I show up there, people say to me, Charles Cook, and I say, and they say, oh, you're on the Megan Kelly.

Speaker 17 Exactly.

Speaker 11 You've got a lot lot of fans down there trust me i see the numbers um we have to end it we've had like a serious show but we have to end it on baseball because this happens to be i think one of the greatest loves of our friend rich lowry here charlie um i hear him talk about it all the time he does like preseason openers he watches like the practices he watches the games before anybody's there like the man loves baseball um Baseball controversy in the news.

Speaker 11 I'm becoming a regular sports commentator between the U.S. Open and the NFL and now this.

Speaker 11 And everybody must have seen this online over the weekend. It was at a Philadelphia Eagles game against the Marlins.

Speaker 7 Sorry.

Speaker 11 Eagles were the other day. They also played in my defense.
This is the Phillies. That's the baseball team.
And

Speaker 11 the Phillies hit a home run, and the ball went into the stands. And the ball landed kind of in front of this group of people, but there was a scrum to grab it.

Speaker 11 And the guy in the red shirt, this dad, ran over. He got it.
He goes back and gives it to his kid. An angry Karen lady comes over, starts yelling at him, and you can hear her yelling here.

Speaker 11 Let's let's play the side.

Speaker 11 And he gave it back. He took it out of his son's mitt and gave it to the, to you took it from me, lady.
So your verdict on who's right and who's wrong here, Rich, is what?

Speaker 24 Oh, she's clearly in the wrong. So the basic rule is foul ball, home run,

Speaker 24 adults involved, it's a scrum, right? And it's just a fight to the finish until someone secures the ball and holds it up. Then it's their ball.

Speaker 24 But the other rules are if there's a kid involved in the scrum and you're aware of it as an adult, you back off because you want the kid to get it.

Speaker 24 And if you catch a ball and it's not like, you know, Aaron Judge's 500th career home run or something, you know, sell for $500,000, you take the photo with it, you're happy, then you toss it to the nearest kid.

Speaker 24 Walking, thinking because a seat ball landed in your vicinity, it's yours, and then going and confronting a father who got it for his kid is so outlandish.

Speaker 24 This just isn't done. I haven't ever seen anything like this before.

Speaker 24 Now, look, I don't think her life should be ruined over it. I don't like the sleuthing to try to identify her and get her fired for her job or whatever.
No one's found her yet.

Speaker 24 She's probably walking around Philadelphia in Mets paraphernalia right now to maintain her deep cover. But her conduct was terrible and inexcusable.

Speaker 11 All right. What do we think, Charlie, of this incident? And what do we think?

Speaker 11 Some are giving the dad a hard time. for giving the ball back, for taking the ball from the sun and giving it to the angry Karen.

Speaker 23 Yeah, it's just so unusual, isn't it, to find an intemperate sports fan from Philadelphia for the first time this has ever happened. Exactly.
I don't know. I'm in two minds.

Speaker 23 I've read both sides of this. On the one hand, I do agree that it's a good opportunity to teach a lesson about how people can be unreasonable.

Speaker 23 And he realized she was going to make the rest of his and his son's evening a nightmare. And he did get rewarded for it ultimately.

Speaker 23 I think he went and he got assigned bat because the team felt bad for him.

Speaker 23 On the other hand, knowing myself, I think I may have very calmly explained that there was no way in hell she was getting that baseball back from my son because my son would have been so happy to have it.

Speaker 23 And once it had been handed over to him, I think I would probably have refused. So I don't like the condemnations of this guy in either direction.
It's difficult to know what you do in that scenario.

Speaker 23 But me personally, knowing how obstinate I am, I think I would have told her very politely to take a hike.

Speaker 11 Yeah, maybe we would have heard like bullocks or something like that because Charlie in the stands. I think no condemnation for the dad.
You're right. That's an awkward situation.

Speaker 11 But I do think it's like a moment to ask yourself, what should I do in that situation? And I don't think you give the ball back. I think you say, lady, take a hike.
It was a scrum.

Speaker 11 Every man or woman for themselves. And now my kids got it.
Go deal. Now, Rich, another interesting angle is some people online were saying,

Speaker 11 back when I was a kid, if you didn't get the ball because someone acted like a Karen, that was the end of it. And you learned that life has disappointments and shitty people and move on.

Speaker 11 Now we often see this like, they're going to have a parade in the child's honor. He's going to get a bat.
He's going to go, he's going to have a Philly spend the summer with him teaching him baseball.

Speaker 11 You know, like, what do you make of the team making good kind of in an over-the-top way?

Speaker 17 Yeah,

Speaker 24 I don't mind that so much. I think it's great that Harrison Bader hit the home run, signed the bat for him.
All that's appropriate.

Speaker 24 I don't know about further things in the kids' favor, but this really, it shouldn't be a national story.

Speaker 24 I mean, it's just interesting and fun, but this is the kind of thing before the era of cell phones. It would have happened and people in that section would have known about it.

Speaker 24 Or maybe, you know, maybe the TV broadcast picks up on it, but it's a bad thing that happened. Unfortunate.
Everyone moves on. But now, you know, it's a national obsession.
And again,

Speaker 24 she needs to hide her identity because she really could get fired or personally destroyed over this. She may be a terrible person for all I know, or it may just have been a bad moment.

Speaker 24 But I think it's better if everyone just kind of moves on and says go Yankees.

Speaker 11 I like, I like and says go Yankees. I like the rules.
Like when there's a kid involved, you lose. You cede to the kid, period.

Speaker 11 That should be ingrained in everybody's head naturally, but some Karens need to be reminded. Guys, great to see you.
What a great hour. Thanks for being here.
Thank you. Thank you.
Fuck soon.

Speaker 11 Go subscribe to NR Plus before they leave your head and you can read all their commentary for a very reasonable price. Tomorrow, Andrew Clavin.

Speaker 11 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

Speaker 1 This is Marshawn Lynch.

Speaker 2 You and I make decisions every day, but on prize picks, being right can get you paid.

Speaker 1 So I'm here to make sure you don't miss any of the action this football season.

Speaker 4 With prize picks, it's good to be right.

Speaker 5 Download the Prize Pecks app today and use code Pandora to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.

Speaker 9 That's That's code Pandora.

Speaker 5 To get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.

Speaker 6 PrizePicks.

Speaker 10 It's good to be right. Must be present in certain states.
Visit PrizePicks.com for restrictions and details.