Comey Indicted, Kamala Word Salad, and Hoda Kotb's Inane Book, with Maureen Callahan, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and John Solomon | Ep 1158

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Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly.

Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show.

Maureen Callahan will be here with me soon to discuss Kamala Harris's disastrous book tour and more.

But we, of course, begin today with the historic indictment of FBI director, former James Comey.

It happened last night in the Eastern District of Virginia federal court.

He faces two felony counts, false statements to Congress and obstruction of a congressional proceeding.

Both carry up to five years in prison.

It's massive news.

We're not going to wait to get to our experts on this.

Joining us now, MK True Crime Contributor Dave Ehrenberg, former prosecutor, and Article III Project founder and president Mike Davis.

These two have been sparring about law affair involving and against President Trump for years.

Now they'll spar about lawfare initiated by the Trump administration.

And just the news founder and editor-in-chief, John Solomon, is with me as well.

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I'm going to start with you, Mike Davis, because I think you're closer than anybody here to the administration.

What has Jim Comey been indicted for?

Well, thank you for having me on.

John's also very close, but I would say this, that Jim Comey was indicted because he lied to Congress, so 18 U.S.C.

1001, false statements, and then he obstructed a congressional proceeding or investigation.

So it's pretty clear-cut that he did both of those things.

There was a grand jury that found probable cause that both of those things happened.

And so that's why Jim Comey, the former FBI director, is facing indictment.

I will say that I shouldn't take glee in someone being indicted, but I do.

I'll be honest with you.

James Comey is a scumbag.

He made up the Russian collusion hoax, the Crossfire Hurricane investigation.

He set up

General Flynn as the incoming national security advisor.

This guy is a saboteur of the duly elected president of the United States, and he can go to prison and he can also go to hell.

Yeah,

I appreciate your candor.

I really do.

Honestly, I'm feeling the same.

I have absolutely no empathy for James Comey.

He seems like a genuinely bad guy.

To me, it seems like he committed multiple crimes that he got away with because the statute of limitations expired.

And now our only question today is to figure out whether these are viable and valid and whether he'll and or whether he'll be able to get them dismissed for whatever reason.

And we can go through them.

All right, so I didn't get the answer, the actual answer.

I'm going to try with John on, okay, I get that those are the legal claims.

You know, I get it.

There are two counts against him.

What were the lies?

Because I, like you guys, have read the two-page indictment and it's very thin.

It does not tell us what is the perjury.

I mean, it says,

okay,

he...

testified during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing that he had not authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports.

Okay, he had not authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports regarding an FBI investigation concerning person one.

We don't know who that is.

Okay, then they say that was false because he had.

He had done that.

Now, what's not in here, John, is what

are they talking about?

Who did he authorize to be an anonymous source and what news reports?

Do we know?

uh we don't yet i mean i we think we think it involves an october 2016 leak to the wall street journal about the hillary clinton uh investigation and there are two people that have come forward we have their documents we've made them public that say that john uh that uh james comey authorized them to leak to the news media one of them is andy mccabe Andy McCabe has a credibility issue.

He's a guy that was found himself to have lied in an inspector general report, but he was a deputy director in the inner circle of James Comey's team.

And then the second is James Baker, a highly respected general counsel at the FBI.

He has not been indicted or accused of any wrongdoing.

And he said, listen, I'm just going to be straight with you guys.

When he was interviewed by the Postal Inspection Service, they brought them in as an independent agency when they were looking at leaking during the Comey era.

Hey, James Comey asked me to leak.

And he not only asked me to leak, he asked me to leak classified information.

And that instruction came through his chief of staff, James Rubicki.

So both men claim that they were authorized to leak in this timeframe around the October 2016 Wall Street Journal article.

Now, I will agree with you, Megan.

This is the thinnest worded dog indictment I have ever seen as a reporter.

It is so lean.

I was looking for an introduction, didn't even get that.

We will get some.

It's been shot up with a ZEPIC.

That is how lean it is.

Exactly.

Exactly.

We're going to get more details next week.

I think there'll be some, either an FBI affidavit in support of it or when the, and then when the arraignment comes, we'll get a little bit more detail.

But I was shocked by the leanness.

Based on the documents we have, we believe it involves that Wall Street Journal article in October 2016.

Okay, before we move on from that point, you said, okay, possibly he leaked to Andy McCabe, who was his deputy at the FBI, and possibly to James Baker, who worked for him at the FBI at the time.

Asked him to leak.

Asked them to leak, yeah.

Sorry, sorry.

Asked them to leak while they were all FBI employees.

Now, the Andy McCabe leak that you're referencing, is that the one that Andy McCabe already got reamed by the DOJ Inspector General for?

Because there was a difference of opinion.

Andy McCabe leaked to the journal and then he came out and said, I did it, but Comey kind of authorized it after the fact.

I told Comey about it, and he authorized it, not before the fact.

But then the Inspector General just laid into Comey, and the Inspector General certainly seemed to think that that laid into McCabe seemed to think that McCabe was the liar because Comey was like, I didn't authorize it.

McCabe was like, he did, though it was after the fact.

And it seemed like the inspector general was like, McCabe is the liar.

And I'm actually thinking he should, he might potentially need to get prosecuted for lying.

It didn't happen.

So is that the possible McCabe leak that you and I are talking about right now?

Yeah, listen, they're all talking about the same story and who leaked when, what, and who approved what, when.

What's most important in this chain of events, the one clearest

direction to leak, one that doesn't have the muddled up

analysis of the Inspector General or the problems of Andy McCabe's own credibility, is what James Baker said.

James Baker is unequivocal in his interview with the Postal Inspection Service.

We put that document out.

You were kind enough to have me on your show.

We talked about it then.

I think it's a really important document.

It is a claim by a member of

the Comey inner circle that he was instructed in advance to leak something and that what he leaked was classified information and that that instruction came from James Comey through the chief of staff.

So if you're the United States Justice Department, when you bring this case, you're going to have to bring in James Ribici,

James Baker, and Andy McCabe, and you're going to have to synchronize their stories.

Ribic is the chief of staff who allegedly gave the instruction from Comey to there.

Now, we also know that there are some emails and text messages, and I would not be surprised that in the next version of this indictment or in the next affidavit from the FBI agent that we get a little bit more flesh on the bone.

But there's a lot to still be answered here.

And I think that our suspicions are well-founded.

We need to get more data than we got in the original indictment.

Is the James Baker leak what you and I discussed that was in the Durham annex that had been kept hidden from us and just got released in the latest ranch?

Or where did that come from?

The Baker leak is actually in a timeline that Cash Patel found buried in a system in the FBI.

And it's a timeline of all the leak investigations that occurred in the Comey Ray era.

And in there, there were some remarkable claims.

And when they first got released by the Trump Justice Department, ironically, the Trump Justice Department redacted the most important piece of information, this story by James Baker.

We appealed to the Justice Department, and Pam Bonnie intervened and got it unredacted.

And that's when we got this piece.

So it's a timeline that someone in the FBI decided to write.

When you look at it, it looks a little bit like a CYA timeline.

Like, hey, if anyone ever asks, I want you to let you know what really went on with these leak investigations.

And in the middle of that timeline is this extraordinary story, which we have corroborated independent of the timeline, that Baker gave this testimony and he stands by that testimony to this very day.

That's not good for Comey, but I'm sure it was like finding a pot of gold for the Trump DOJ, which suspected Comey was a bad guy and that there would be proof of some potential crime.

And I think may have stumbled upon it.

So long story short, Mike, before I go to Dave, don't believe the mainstream media that this is a, and we'll get to the political motivation, all that, but like that, that on the merits, this is a baloney case.

This actually could have real substance if you have James Baker saying, Jim Comey, through his intermediary, told me to leak.

And I did leak on that direction.

And Jim Comey, under oath, it's on camera saying, no, I didn't.

Yeah, I mean, look, you're looking at the grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia, which is filled with Democrats and government workers right across the Potomac River from the grand jury in D.C.

that refuses to indict violent criminals.

And so there is definitely probable cause to move forward with these indictments if the grand jury found that there was probable cause.

This is not some southern district of Texas grand jury, again, eastern district of Virginia.

Okay, now, Dave, here we go to you.

What?

Jim Comey hired Patrick Fitzgerald, a former federal prosecutor, the guy who went after Scooter Libby, among others.

And

he's sort of known as a Joe Friday kind of lawyer.

It depends on who you ask, but he knows his way around a federal courthouse, that's for sure.

He put out a very slim two-line statement saying

we look forward to his complete vindication in court.

And then you got the weepy, sort of soft-voiced Jim Comey long, like, I'm innocent and don't get down on your knees and vote like your government and your country depend on the self-serving sanctimonious Comey Act.

I don't know if I have it in me to play it.

We did it on an AM update.

But let's say you're talking to Pat Fitzgerald and the two of you are chatting about how you're going to go after this.

And again, we're talking about legal merits now.

We'll get to whether this is politically motivated, unless you think that's relevant to how you'll go after it.

What do you say?

Well, Megan, you asked the right question from the beginning.

We don't know what the leak was, and that's crucial here.

Okay.

Aside from their strategy, which will be focused on vindictive prosecution and selective prosecution so it never gets to a jury, we still need to know what was the leak.

What was the article?

And for that, I would like to ask John Solomon, because then I have a response to that.

What was the article that James Baker allegedly leaked?

It was a consequential story that a lot of people believe, at least Hillary Clinton believes, swung the election.

There's an irony in this that he's being prosecuted for leaking a story that may have been damaging to Hillary Clinton.

It was about what was going on in the Hillary Clinton email case in the Anthony Wiener laptop and what went on in that period of time.

Isn't it an irony that

may ultimately be, if this turns out to be the article?

Again, the indictment is so thin, we don't know what article they were speaking about.

But Jay, just to clarify, and I'll give it back to you in a second, Dave, but just to clarify, so that article was one, if memory serves, in which the FBI outed that it had, it was having a war with the DOJ about what to do about Hillary and all those emails.

That's right.

That's right.

And then there's a piece of classified information that's disclosed.

Okay.

Okay, go ahead, Dave.

If it's about Hillary Clinton and Andrew McCabe,

Megan, you're correct.

The inspector general found that it was Andrew McCabe, was the one who could not be trusted, lack candor, and that he said after the fact, he told Comey that he had leaked this stuff, and Comey shrugged.

It was not an authorization.

Authorization has to be done beforehand, not afterwards, right?

But then John Solomon correctly brings up James Baker, which is separate because McCabe has his own issues here.

Baker did

come clean and say there was a leak.

But here's the thing:

it looks like, according to the documents that are involved here, which we're all basing it after, the article that James Baker led to, that he leaked for was not a Hillary Clinton article, but something totally different.

Because if you look at the documents, it says that this article appeared in October 2016, that it was sourced to two government officials.

It contained classified information and involved, of course, the

FBI.

There's only one news article that meets that criteria, according to the New York Times, if you do a search.

And it's an article about Yahoo aiding the U.S.

email surveillance by adapting a spam filter, not the Hillary Clinton stuff, right?

So if that's the case, right?

And if John agrees, if that's the case, he's got an answer.

There is no lie.

That's right, because you remember what the question was by Cruz, it had to be called the Clinton.

Right, exactly.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Cruz teed it up when he was getting Comey on the record because just for the audience at home, because I know this is a lot to follow.

Comey was under oath in 2017.

And Chuck Grassley of Iowa asked him, a Republican,

have you leaked?

And have you authorized anybody to leak?

And he said, no and no.

Well, if we can't get him on those charges, because that's a long time ago, and you have to, it's only five-year statute of limitations.

But in 2020, they had another shot at Comey.

And Ted Cruz brought up the Grassley testimony and said, do you stand by all that?

Because by the way, Andrew McCabe suggests you did tell him to leak.

But in any event, do you stand by that earlier testimony to Chuck Grassley?

And Comey said yes, but it was specifically about, did you leak about the Hillary investigation the FBI was doing or the Trump administration?

Here's the Ted Cruz exchange that, you know, we believe has led to this indictment.

We're pretty sure the Ted Cruz exchange is the basis of the indictment.

We're just not sure exactly which leak or article he's talking about here.

On May 3rd, 2017,

in this committee, Chairman Grassley asked you point blank, quote, Have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation?

You responded under oath, quote, never.

He then asked you, quote, have you ever authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports about the Trump investigation or the Clinton administration?

You responded again under oath, no.

Now, as you know, Mr.

McCabe, who works for you, has publicly and repeatedly stated that he leaked information to the Wall Street Journal and that you were directly aware of it.

and that you directly authorized it.

Now,

what Mr.

McCabe is saying and what you testified to this committee cannot both be true.

One or the other is false.

Who's telling the truth?

I can only speak to my testimony.

I stand by what the testimony you summarized that I gave in May of 2017.

So your testimony is you've never authorized anyone to leak.

And Mr.

McCabe, if he says contrary, is not telling the truth.

Is that correct?

Again, I'm not going to characterize Andy's testimony, but mine is the same today.

Okay, so just to go back to John Solomon for a second, what's your response to Dave's point that the only thing he thinks James Baker was involved in leaking is about a Yahoo article?

We don't know which one the classified, we still don't know what James Baker leaked.

We know it's in the same timeframe as the article of that.

We know it's the same timeframe where they're asking McCabe.

What I think is problematic for the prosecution there is that Ted Cruz's question goes two different ways.

When he starts it, it's, did you ever leak about the Trump administration or Trump investigation in Clinton?

And he ends it, do you asking, did you ever leak at all or authorize anyone to leak at all?

That's going to be an ambiguous,

if they're resting the case on that second

follow-up on Ted Cruz, which we don't know yet because we have so little information, a jury is going to say, man, we are really starting to split hairs here on what you're trying to pincone me down.

I think one of our problems right now to judge the strength of this indictment is we need to know exactly what the grand jury made the decision on.

Grand juries are pretty perceptive.

They sometimes have lawyers on them, which is a good thing.

There has to be something more than what we're able to speculate on here for the grand jury to make that decision, but we're flying blind.

And I think that David has got some really great points.

I have wondered for the last 24 hours, I can't tell exactly what they've indicted to come before specifically.

I know what they've indicted on legal charges, but it's been very difficult to understand what the actual transmission of information is.

All right, I'm going to go back to Mike Davis.

But first, I just want to just say this again for the audience.

He told Ted Cruz that he never authorized anyone at the FBI to be an anonymous source on news reports about the Trump investigation or the Hillary investigation.

He did affirm that.

He said, I'm giving you the same testimony today that I gave in May of 17.

My testimony is the same today as it was in May of 17.

Never authorize someone at the FBI to be an anonymous source on news reports about the Trump investigation or the Hillary investigation.

I just want to take one quick look at

the original

testimony, I think we have this, to Senator Grassley in 2017, that again, he affirmed in 2020 it's SOP 3.

Director Comey, have you ever been an anonymous source?

in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation?

Never.

Have you ever authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports about the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation?

No.

That's clean.

Has any classified information relating to President Trump or his

associates been declassified?

and shared with the media?

Not to my knowledge.

All right.

Those first two are very clean, Mike.

And he did reaffirm it to Ted Cruz.

No, never.

I did not leak.

I did not authorize anyone to leak.

And then with Ted Cruz, he says explicitly, I stand by the testimony that I gave in May of 2017.

My testimony is the same today.

So to me, that is very clear.

He's saying, I did not.

authorize anyone to leak about either of those two subjects.

What do you make of what John is saying, Mike, about you got Andy McCabe on the one hand, who's already been deemed the liar in that confrontation, you know, between him and Comey by the Inspector General.

And then the second one, Baker, which Dave is arguing, the only leak we can, we appear at this point to be able to pin on Baker is about something not having to do with a Trump or Hillary investigation.

Yeah, I mean, I would say this.

Those clips you just played, Megan, show that James Comey clearly lied when he testified to my former boss, Chuck Grassley, in 2017.

He was under oath.

That's perjury.

We're beyond the statute of limitations for that one.

But in 2020, he lied again under oath to Ted Cruz when he reaffirmed that testimony.

And so I would say this about James Comey.

He's lucky the grand jury did not indict him for perjury.

They indicted him for false statements and an obstruction of a congressional investigation.

And so I think it's very clear that he provided false statements under 18 U.S.C.

1001.

I agree that Dave makes good points.

Those are arguments that will be made to the jury.

What's the difference between perjury and false statements?

False statements don't have to be under oath, but

they're very similar crimes.

Perjury is when you are under oath, and false statements is just false statements to

federal law enforcement, to Congress.

They're similar.

What can you glean then, Mike, from the fact that they went for the false statements count, but not for the perjury count?

What do you think the grand jurors are trying to tell us?

They probably are in the Dave camp, that they don't think that this is a slam dunk case.

And so they indict it for false statements, and they did not indict for perjury.

Go ahead, Dave.

What is the false statement?

Yeah, I'm just curious.

Mike, what is the false statement to you?

Like, what I don't gather here is the false statement because when I parse the words, you can say he's playing word games, but I don't see anything that's specifically false in what he said.

Which is it?

Well, I mean, I think the grand jury indicted because he reaffirmed his 2017 testimony in 2020.

And so they, but what was the false testimony back in 2017?

That he, I mean, we just played it.

It was that he never authorized the leak.

Any leak

about those two sections.

Yeah.

Right.

Well, and you know, my response to that is that first, he didn't authorize any leak to McCabe, but in the Arctic Hayes investigation, which I think would be the best.

Nobody knows what that is.

All right,

I was about to explain it.

The Arctic Hayes investigation is the leak that Comey did, and he acknowledged he did this back in 2017, right after he was fired.

He told his friend who used to work at the FBI, a guy named Daniel Richman, and he's like a law professor, a confidant.

He told him to leak one of Comey's memos about Michael Flynn to the New York Times, and he did.

That was an authorization.

That was a leak.

The reason why it's not covered here, the reason why I say it's not a lie, it's because at the time, Daniel Richmond did not work for the FBI and neither did Comey.

So that's why I don't think it's a false statement.

But that's what I think is the strongest argument for the prosecution here.

I don't know.

John Solomon, you're an expert on this guy, this Columbia law professor who is a friend of Comey's.

You and I have talked about him before.

There wasn't just that leak.

There were leaks by Comey to Richmond while Richmond was a special government employee for the FBI and was leaking for Comey.

That did happen.

I'm not sure whether that's what this indictment's based on.

We're all non-internalizing a board with the blindfold on.

I don't know whether that's true.

You take it from here, John, because I know you just did reporting on this.

I want to, yeah, listen.

Richmond is very clear that he was leaking on behalf of Comey and trying to craft a narrative for Comey prior to Comey leaving the directorship.

And then he's unclear.

He's unclear as to whether or not he remembers if Comey specifically authorized it or he just did it because he knew that's what Comey wanted.

But remember, there's some evidence we don't know about.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm told that there are some text messages and emails that will be dispositive as this case goes forward.

So I think we have to wait and see what it is.

I think I'd like to go back.

If, Megan, if you could do it,

when

Ted Cruz goes back the second time and reaffirms what he just heard from Comey, he broadens the claim.

And I think that's something I just want to hear again.

Maybe we all should hear.

Yeah, let's play it again.

He doesn't narrow it to Clinton and Trump anymore.

He says, I just want to make sure you're saying you never asked anyone to ever leak.

See if you can play that.

Because I think he broadens the claim there.

Here we go.

Sat four.

On May 3rd, 2017,

in this committee, Chairman Grassley asked you point blank, quote, have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation?

You responded under oath, quote, never.

He then asked you, quote, have you ever authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports about the Trump investigation or the Clinton administration?

You responded again under oath, no.

Now, as you you know, Mr.

McCabe, who works for you, has publicly and repeatedly stated that he leaked information to the Wall Street Journal and that you were directly aware of it and that you directly authorized it.

Now,

what Mr.

McCabe is saying and what you testified to this committee cannot both be true.

One or the other is false.

Who's telling the truth?

I can only speak to my testimony.

I stand by what the testimony you summarized that I gave in in May of 2017.

So your testimony is you've never authorized anyone to leak.

And Mr.

McCabe, if he says contrary, is not telling the truth.

Is that correct?

Again, I'm not going to characterize Andy's testimony, but mine is the same today.

So

yeah, he drops out Clinton and Trump at that point.

Now, again, listen, I think it was splitting hairs when we were getting this, and I'm not sure a grand jury would have tolerated that level of splitting hairs.

But I did notice that in the follow-up question, and it's very interesting that

the indictment makes no reference to 2017 testimony.

It's not trying to tie back to 2017.

So it'll be very interesting to see if that change of words that flip from cruise is part of it.

I suspect there's some evidence we don't know about.

When we got that timeline that I told you about, Megan, there are massive amounts of that timeline that are still blacked out.

They're redacted because they're covered by grand jury information.

I suspect there's some additional evidence we don't know yet not yet know about.

And that's why I'm eager to see the next version of the indictment because it needs a little bit more meat on the bones for us to have a really informed debate yeah okay so the where the way things stands stand now are uh he's been indicted by this new uh acting u.s attorney for the eastern district of virginia clearly brought there because the federal district in washington dc would be a complete waste of time that's there's no way they're gonna do anything fair for any there's another reason though megan trying to

well i know comey was there when he gave the testimony i think right yeah that's the jurisdiction, yeah.

That's right, that's where the crime comes.

I don't think that's the reason.

I don't think that's the reason.

I think that's the hook that they had.

Yeah, that is that.

That's right.

Yeah, that's right.

No, there's nothing improper about bringing it there.

I'm just explaining why it was there instead of in D.C., where Congress is.

So

they brought the charges saying Comey lied when he said he never authorized somebody to leak.

That's what this case is about.

He lied when he said he never authorized anyone to leak.

And it depends on whether it's limited.

John's suggesting maybe it's him answering the Ted Cruz Cruz wider question where he said,

so your testimony is you've never authorized anyone to leak.

Was he saying, that's my testimony?

And so you've got, it goes beyond the Clinton and the Trump investigation?

Or is it limited to Clinton and Trump and they have proof of it in some text or other form that he did so authorize?

Okay, so that now we're, you know, Bob's your uncle.

We're off on the merits about whether he did that or he didn't, and he's going to get his day in court.

However, before we get there,

we are going to get a selective or malicious prosecution defense, Mike Davis.

And that is something that is raised with the judge on the papers.

The jury doesn't decide that.

The judge looks at the facts.

And this guy who's been appointed, well, not appointed, but he pulled the case,

Judge Michael Nachmanoff

is an interesting judge.

Career, basically, as a federal defender, a federal criminal defender.

So he's not a prosecutor.

That's fine.

He was appointed by Biden in 21.

That's them's the breaks.

We have lawyers and we have judges from both Republican and Democrat appointees.

Now, somebody we follow on X here on this show, William Shipley,

he has very smart legal analysis and he said the following.

Of all the Biden appointees in the Eastern District of Virginia, Judge Natchmanoff is probably the best potential draw he means for Trump.

He does not have a background that suggests progressive activism, as is true of many Biden-appointed district judges, particularly those he writes in the last two years of his administration.

Nachmanov, his entire career in private practice, was in federal criminal defense work.

That's not the same kind of bubbling cauldron of social justice warrior that you find in public interest law firms on the radical left.

He says,

this is generally not the profile of an activist progressive judge.

This is just a trial attorney attracted to criminal defense work.

What is your take on this draw and who it helps?

I mean, I think Bill Shipley, he's a friend.

He's a very smart guy.

I will say this.

You had two Democrat senators in Virginia, so you're not going to have a blue slip problem where the home state senators, there wasn't a Republican home state senator that would have made them pick a more moderate pick.

There are a lot of potential picks for the Eastern District of Virginia.

It's a very coveted judgeship, and I seriously doubt that the Biden White House put someone who's just going to call balls and strikes in the Eastern District of Virginia because they didn't do it anywhere else where they could have put in a radical they always did.

So Dave, this argument And just be honest with you, I don't totally understand the difference between malicious prosecution and selective prosecution.

And are those both defenses that can be raised?

And also, can you please please talk about how they're going to argue that?

Yes, they're going to use the president's words against him.

That's where the social media posts will hurt him.

And I don't know if that was meant to be a direct message, directly to Attorney General Bondi or broadcast to everyone, but he then deleted it.

And the fact that he fired Eric Siebert, who was a respected conservative, acting U.S.

attorney in that district, because he refused to prosecute James Comey and replaced him with someone who had never prosecuted a case before and had to go in himself to do it.

Or was it Letitia James that he was he was dragging his feet on?

He was mad at both.

But by the way, I assume that our friend Mike Davis would be friends with him because Mike is friends with every conservative lawyer in the country.

So I assume you know Eric Siebert.

Right?

And

he seems like a very nice guy.

He seems like a very typical Washington, D.C.

Republican.

I would say maybe

the Democrats in Virginia, the two Democrat senators in Virginia who agreed to his nomination would be very pleased with a Republican Mike Siebert.

Okay, it's true.

It is tricky.

It is tricky.

And what's Mike's saying, and I get it, is, as you know, Dave, within the Republican Party, you've got the ones who are MAGA, and then you've got the more old school, more establishment types.

And to get through, as the U.S.

Attorney approved by the two Democrat senators from Virginia, you'd probably do better if you were the more establishment type and not a MAGA acolyte.

So that's, I mean, what he seems to be saying.

Can I just say this very fast, Dave?

I would not get a blue slip from any Democrat in America.

I probably wouldn't get a blue slip from any Republican in America, but

Siebert would probably get a blue slip from any Democrat in America.

I thought a blue slip is when you're rejected.

I thought that's like a black ball is the blue slip.

No, no,

no, the green light.

When the senators return these stupid blue slips, then you can get, then it's a hundred-year-old tradition in the Senate where the home state senators have an absolute veto over U.S.

attorney, U.S.

Marshal, and district court judge.

And so okay, but when I move to Florida or when Dave moves to Connecticut and we become the two state senators or U.S.

senators from the state, we would definitely blue slip you, Mike Davis.

We would, you would sail through no matter what partisan stripes we have.

All right, keep going, Dave.

Yes, well, so when it comes to vindictive prosecution, that's what they're going to rely on.

And they're going to use the president's words here rather than the prosecutor's words.

Although they'll show that the U.S.

attorney, the acting U.S.

attorney, was someone who was appointed for this purpose.

And within days later, she went into court herself.

She didn't even use any of her career prosecutors, perhaps because they didn't want to do it.

And she got the indictment herself.

So when you prove a vindictive prosecution claim, the burden's on the defense, and they have to make a prima facie showing.

You got to show enough evidence, and then it shifts.

The burden shifts to the prosecution to show that they had some sort of legitimate, non-vindictive reason for the charge.

So, it's tough to prove, but I think if there's a

legitimate case, because the president's words will be used against him, that's why he deleted them shortly thereafter.

I'll read the post that you're referring to.

I will say this before I forget on malicious prosecution.

Typically it is raised as a defense when, like the classic example is a defendant

asserts his right to a speedy trial or

won't cop a plea and insists on a trial, which is a pain in the ass for the prosecutor.

And then the prosecutor ups the ante like now we're going for the death penalty.

That would be your classic malicious prosecution claim where the judge says, no, no, no, you can't punish a guy for exercising his constitutional rights like this.

This is different.

You know, this is like you've only brought the case because you're mad at me for

doing bad things to your people.

And my favorite, in the past, whatever it's been, 12, 14 hours since this news broke.

My favorite post, once again, it's almost true every day.

Stephen L.

Miller, not the Stephen Miller, this is a different guy, goes by Red Stees on X, keeps posting when everybody says, this is retribution, this is retribution, this is retribution.

He keeps posting for what?

For what?

It's exactly right.

For what was done to Trump?

For malicious prosecution that was done to Trump and all of his staff.

It's like, yes, that's probably exactly how we got here.

I mean, everybody knows that's what we're doing here.

The only question is whether it's still appropriate because there's a good faith basis that he actually did commit a crime and now he's going to have to feel the punishment of it.

But like, I don't think most of us think we'd be here if they hadn't done this to Mike Flynn and they hadn't done this to Steve Bannon, they hadn't gone after Peter Navarro, and they hadn't got after Roger Stone, and they hadn't got after Donald Trump four times.

Of course, that was the motivation.

Retribution for what?

Fill in the blank, New York Times.

Here is the

post that could prove problematic if they do raise malicious prosecution.

And this happened just a couple of days ago, 9-20-25 is the date.

Pam.

And there is speculation, we actually never figure out, Trump almost never deletes his true social posts.

This one was posted, and people said that reads more like a direct message than a classic Trump post.

And then he took it down, which only fueled that fire more.

Here's what he writes.

Pam, colon, like it's a message to her.

I've reviewed over 30 statements and posts saying that essentially, same old story as last time, all talk, no action.

Nothing is being done.

What about Comey?

Adam's shifty shift, Letitia?

It's very funny if it's a direct message that he even calls him shifty shift in his DMs.

It's not, that it's not just for show.

They're all guilty as hell, but nothing's going to be done.

Then we almost put in a Democrat-supported U.S.

attorney in Virginia with a really bad Republican past, a woke rhino, who was never going to do his job.

That's why two of the worst Dem senators pushed him so hard.

He were talking about Siebert here, the guy who

either was fired or withdrew this week or Friday.

He even lied to the media and said he quit and that we had no case.

No, I fired him.

And there is a great case.

And many lawyers and legal pundits say so.

Lindsey Halligan is a really good lawyer and likes you a lot.

We can't delay any longer.

It's killing our reputation and credibility.

They impeached me twice and indicted me five times over nothing.

Justice must be served now.

President DJT, which is also funny if it's a direct message to her.

You have to laugh.

Okay, so Lindsay Halligan is 36 years old, seems like a very nice lady, but in no world

would normally be getting appointed as the U.S.

Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia.

Speaking of

Ozempic infested documents, that's what her resume is when it comes to the

qualifications for this particular job.

With all due respect, I'm sure she's a good lawyer.

She worked for President Trump personally.

That's how he knows her.

But I'm just going to say, this person's elevation to this level of a post is kind of laughable.

It never would happen under normal circumstances.

I believe she was put there because she's loyal to Trump and she's probably a decent lawyer, but she has no criminal law experience and zero experience as a prosecutor.

Zero.

So it's kind of shocking.

I think we know why she's there.

He didn't delete it.

He deleted it and then he reposted it.

That's That's what he did.

I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

Okay.

He added her last name, Halligan, and he added some other stuff.

Okay.

So

then he added more to it, which I'm not going to read because you guys get the general gist.

So that's the evidence, Mike, that this was malicious prosecution.

And I have to just say this before you answer how they're going to argue that it's not.

The media is having a meltdown over the fact that Trump has been very vocal about wanting this indictment, which he has, even if he took this, whatever, without this tweet.

He's been very vocal about wanting James Comey indicted.

And they're horrified by this.

And they really think it's obvious that it was under White House pressure.

And maybe it was.

And 100%, so were the Trump indictments.

Like, I just have absolutely no tolerance

for this argument.

Last night,

They actually, to their credit, did talk about the fact that there was

Biden pressure to indict Trump.

But then they tried to draw a distinction that that was private behind closed doors, that he wasn't public about it, which is a distinction without any difference.

That makes no difference legally.

The president in both cases made very clear to his DOJ he wanted an indictment.

That's what happened to Trump.

And that appears to be what happened here.

So your thoughts on that?

I would just say that the Trump Justice Department should just go back and use the Biden Justice Department's legal arguments that Jack Smith made when Trump made these same arguments about malicious prosecution.

And so

that's exactly what the Biden Justice Department did.

And, you know,

was there a political motivation here?

Probably.

But you know what?

I would say this to these people.

You ran unprecedented Republic-ending lawfare against President Trump, his top aides, his allies, his supporters, parents, Christians.

I'm going to use the same damn arguments that they threw at me, which was, well, a grand jury indicted here.

So it's obviously legitimate because the grand jury indicted here.

So look, revenge is best served cold.

I think that

if this is,

I want these prosecutions and I'm malicious about it.

So does that make it a malicious prosecution?

Maybe, but I don't give a damn.

I love your honesty.

Let me just show you.

You know, one of the things, yeah, go ahead, John.

Megan, real quickly, one of the things that will come up in the malicious prosecution arguments, the judge will inquire what the grand jury knew.

And one of the ways that prosecutors sometimes insulate a malicious prosecution claim is they, hey, listen, we want you to know the president's out there saying that he doesn't like James Comey, and James Comey has been clear he doesn't like the president.

It's not about this.

And so, if they bring that before the grand jury, or if the grand jury raises that questions themselves before they bring the bill of indictment, a lot of times a judge will look at that and said, listen, there was an informed decision by a grand jury.

They kind of knew what Trump did and they were okay with it because they made it on other circumstances.

So that'll be something when this case gets into the nitty-gritty that will be evaluated by the trial judge.

I also think even if they don't have this prosecutor raising that with the grand jurors,

Team Trump's got an argument like, hello.

It was everywhere.

Trump, again, it's not just down to this one post on True Social.

Trump's been making really clear in front of cameras and elsewhere for a long time, he hates James Comey and would love to see him indicted.

It was not a mystery, which I would submit to you guys is better than what Joe Biden did, which was while on camera trying to act like a good guy who would never interfere with his DOJ, but then clearly...

interfering with his DOJ behind the scenes.

There is an April 2022 New York Times article that busts busts that wide open, talked about how behind the scenes he was leaning on Merrick Garland.

He was pissed it was taking so long.

Keep in mind, the Trump indictments did not start until 2023.

This is before he'd been indicted anywhere, saying, What's taking so long?

Hurry it up.

We need to see indictments.

He wanted him in jail, and there was a very good argument.

He wanted him in jail to stop him from winning the presidency again.

I mean, talk about malicious.

Here's a sampling of how Biden and the Democrats sounded back then, okay, pressuring the Department of Justice to go after Trump, SOT 13.

The New York Times reports President Biden privately told his inner circle that former President Trump should be prosecuted.

Garland's deliberative approach is even frustrating President Biden himself.

President Biden confided to his inner circle that he believed former President Trump was a threat to democracy and should be prosecuted.

I also have been somewhat frustrated at the pace that DOJ has gone.

This isn't complicated.

It is ridiculous how long this is taking.

And I think the, you know, justice delayed is justice denied.

We campaigned for four years saying we were going to be the party that upholds the rule of law, that's going to have an independent justice department.

So far, Americ Garland is failing the United States of America.

How many crimes does somebody have to commit to get prosecuted in this country, at least get investigated by the Department of Justice?

The Attorney General and the Department of Justice have failed this badly.

Will this new reporting

nudge him a little bit?

President Biden is right.

What is Merrick Garland waiting for?

This is his job.

And he's not getting the urgency of the moment.

There was universal pressure on Merrick Garland to go after Donald Trump.

And when Alvin Bragg was the first to go and brought this ridiculous indictment against Donald Trump, which was unlike anybody any lawyer had ever seen and they couldn't figure it it out.

There were lengthy segments on TV, just like we're having now.

Like, what does it mean?

What is he doing?

Only that one had about 40 legal hoops that you had to jump through in order to understand the crime, where they took misdemeanors and inflated them into felonies, and they resurrected dead claims under the statute of limitations.

And then we didn't understand exactly what Trump had done anyway.

Like, he put in his books payment to lawyer for a payment to his lawyer, but he was expected really to just say, in order to pay off porn star, or it's a crime.

Like, all of us were so confused.

It was way more confusing than what we're dealing with here, which is just, okay, he lied under oath about not authorizing somebody to leak, and we just don't know what the leaks were.

They were all in favor of it.

They cheered him.

They celebrated Alvin Bragg.

Oh, my God.

Where was it?

My team sent it to me.

The

Lawrence O'Donnell reaction, it was unbelievable.

He, what did he call him?

He was like, Alvin.

Oh, he talks about how the crimson.

Where is it?

Where is the AM update dev?

Oh, my God.

I'm falling apart out here.

I have so much paper.

I can't do it.

Is this it?

In any event, he was talking about how the Harvard Crimson was celebrating Alvin Bragg as like the next coming, and he really was starting to believe it.

That's my point.

Okay, so this is, I can't handle the absolute hypocrisy and the defense.

Lawrence O'Donnell.

Now,

the phrase trumped up charges has new meaning.

Then, when Alvin Bragg graduated from Harvard College, the Harvard Crimson ran a profile of him.

The title of that profile was The Anointed One.

Come on, Dave.

Are you going to defend that?

I was in college with him.

I knew him in college.

Not well.

Is that how you saw him?

Is that how you saw him?

You did you a little reflection as you walked by?

Yeah, occasionally.

No, no.

No.

Yeah.

You know, Megan, you're clearly playing to your strength here in focusing on the Alvin Bragg New York prosecution because you should never run for office and say, I'm going to go after that guy like Letitia James or Alvin Bragg did.

I will push back, though, about Merrick Garland, who is known for his timidity more than anything on my side of the aisle, who was so scared to go after Trump that he appointed a special prosecutor so he didn't have to do it.

And also, who refused to prosecute Matt Gates when the evidence was there and the investigation was started under Bill Barr, and who prosecuted Joe Biden's son.

Let's see if the Justice Department does that.

He was dragged into that kicking and screaming Mike Davis.

I would say this.

I want to remind everyone, Joe Biden's fingerprints are on all four criminal indictments of President Trump.

It was Jonathan Su, Biden's deputy White House counsel,

who waived Trump's claim of executive privilege on behalf of Joe Biden that led to the Jack Smith two indictments.

It was Matthew Colangelo that deployed from a senior Biden Justice Department political appointment to go work with Alvin Bragg.

And it was Nathan Wade, Fannie Willis' dumb, unqualified boyfriend, who billed 16 hours of his time, $250 an hour, $4,000 for his two meetings with the Biden White House and the White House counsel before they indicted Trump down in Georgia.

So

quickly, Mike, what is likely to happen in this case?

You never know.

You have a Biden judge.

You have an Eastern District of Virginia jury filled with Democrats.

It's going to be a tough case.

Go ahead, Dave.

I think you'll be thrown out as a vindictive prosecution.

It won't even get to a jury.

Okay, and final thoughts from you, John?

I think we're going to get some more evidence that we don't know about that's going to change this conversation.

Oh.

And by the way, I heard you say in Hannity last night, you also are predicting more indictments.

Yeah, they're working on other indictments.

There's over 150 subpoena requests pending at U.S.

attorney's offices around the country.

So there's a lot more investigation going on in this weaponization space than is visible right now.

Any bets on who's next?

No, I would never bet on that.

I thought OJ was going to get convicted.

So I've stopped betting after that.

How about you, Mike?

Do you have any?

Do you also predict more indictments are coming?

I would say down in Dave's backyard in the southern district of Florida,

look for an investigation on the entire Crossfire hurricane conspiracy going back to 2016 and continues to this day.

You're right, because

there would be a better jury down there, and you can go back as far as the raid and before

in order to get more people.

And Mike Davis, any predictions on what names might possibly be under consideration?

I would look at all of them.

Obama, Biden, Hillary, Comey, Clapper, Brennan, all of them.

And all the prosecutions against Trump, Tish, Fannie, Bragg, Jack Smith, Bratt, all of of them.

I would pick up the picture.

Well, let's just make sure that all three of your Zooms are working because we're going to be seeing a lot of you.

Thanks, guys.

Maureen Callahan is next.

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We absolutely have to keep talking.

It's more important now than ever.

To cower, to hide, to go silent is not the answer.

And all I can tell you is there is no fucking way I am canceling one stop on on this tour.

Not one stop.

I'm going.

I'm going to stand on these stages and I'm going to say all the things that we say all the time on this show.

We're going to make it safe for me.

We're going to make it safe for my team and my guests and you.

We're going coast to coast and do something really important, which is say what's true and what's real to honor him.

I really now more than ever would love to see you all face to face.

God, I would love to see you face to face.

I need to see you face to face.

I am doing this tour and I would love for you to join me.

MeganKelly.com for the tickets.

Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show.

I've been so looking forward to this.

It's Friday and we're going into the weekend and we need some lighter stuff.

It's been a very heavy couple of weeks of news.

Okay, but before we go to the place I've been wanting to go, I want to tell you about some updates on the Megan Kelly Live Tour.

We've been adding some new people to our live shows that start next month.

We kick it off next month.

I had such a fun conversation with Charlie Sheen a couple of weeks ago.

Now we're going to get to do it in person.

He's going to be joining me in Bakersfield, California on November 20th.

Very excited about that.

We've also added a new guest to Sugarland, Texas, just outside of Houston.

Our first stop on the tour on October 23rd, that's Jesse Kelly.

He's going to be there along with Donald Trump Jr.

We love Jesse.

He tells it like it is.

We announced the other day that Erica Kirk will be joining us in Glendale, Arizona.

All these tickets are available for you at megankelly.com.

Go there now to buy tickets to all 10 stops.

And if you want to do the VIP meet and greet with me and the guests of the night, then there's a special little box you can check.

So check it out.

And now someone else who's coming on the tour, Maureen Callahan.

She's host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan.

You can find it on YouTube, The Nerve Show, on all podcast platforms.

Go to thenerveshow.com to subscribe.

Great to have you, my friend.

It's great to be back with you, Megan.

Oh, my God.

You look amazing.

There's no so doing you.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah, we're having so much fun.

I know.

I can tell.

And I have fun listening to it.

And I love doing you on Fridays because it gives me, like, I'll go back and listen to this interview in my downtime.

So now I have like lots of you to listen to.

It's awesome.

Oh, well, there's never enough of you.

So I'm very, very happy to see you and see you looking so happy.

Thank you.

And let me tell you, so many people knew you were coming because they gave us manna from heaven in these like subjects that we're going to go over.

It's an embarrassment of riches.

It's like, it's great because like the nerve has been down this week.

We've been off, but like now I really get to get my aggression out.

You know, it's been building up.

So yeah.

Well, that's a perfect place to kick it off is Kamala Harris.

Although we were saying before we got started, I think we're too hard on her.

She's the gift that keeps on giving.

Like it's almost like she cares about us the way she keeps offering these little ditties.

It's impeccable timing.

It's much needed comic relief.

She doesn't know it's comic relief, which kind of makes it even funnier.

Right.

I guess it's less benevolent than I'm giving her credit for.

But here she is.

I don't really know who this was.

My team says it's Scott Evans and a YouTube show that she sat down with.

She's promoting her book,

which I understand you're reading.

I just started.

It's

fourth grade reading level, yet very, very rough going.

Oh my gosh.

Are you having trouble sleeping or something?

Why would you be reading the Kamala Harris book?

It's a rubbernecking thing.

I don't rubberneck on the road, but I will culturally rubberneck.

And I'm really interested, like her, her, the beginning of the book is like getting the call.

And it's the fake version of the call.

It's not the like, I started scrambling and whipping, whipping people up to my side so I could avoid a primary because there's no other way I'm getting this thing.

Oh, Joe's, Joe's dropping out.

No idea that was going to happen.

The shock.

We're just making pancakes, you know?

Right, like I do.

Yeah.

Oh, oh, oh, I have to tell you, in the,

when you open the book, the, the inside art is this very not at all staged photo of Kamala.

It's like a recreation, I believe, of, of her that morning in the call because she describes herself wearing like her Howard University sweatshirt and just hanging out.

And she's like, this at a tape, you know, and it's like, my soror.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

So

it sets the tone nicely that you're not at all getting artifice in this book.

No, it's all wrong.

Well, so she sits down with this guy and she recalls the fondness of her rallies where everyone loved her.

You can see she's actually missing it when people paid attention to her and she felt relevant for once.

And

just it's classic Kamala here.

Take a listen.

Sop 25.

Somebody would want me to take a picture or to hug their child.

Uh-huh.

And someone in the back

would hand that baby over through the crowd

to people who would

pass the baby.

See.

And then pass the baby back.

Pass the baby back.

And I don't know.

There was something about that when it would happen.

I mean, I could get very emotional about it right now,

but, you know, I believe that we should always feel that, you know, the children of the community are the children of the community.

Yeah, yeah.

I've got all of us.

Our next leaders, our next thinkers, our next

participate in caring about that child.

Yeah.

And in caring for that child.

And there was just something about that.

And seeing the baby travel from the parent.

The parent trusted the stranger that was next to them, who trusted the next person, and all of them as though it was their own child.

child.

There was something so

magical in many ways about that and about affirming about you can create an environment where people feel safe and feel a sense of communal responsibility and community.

Yeah.

She says nothing.

Communal responsibility and community.

And the baby, Maureen, the baby.

And how about that guy deserves an Oscar?

Okay, I recognize that guy.

He's an offender.

He seems nice enough, but he is an Access Hollywood host.

Uh-oh.

Okay, so we're infotainment.

We're not that makes.

Yeah, because he was giving it to her.

Like, yeah, this is so interesting.

New babies come.

So I'm picturing we're at Bagram Air Force Base.

We're withdrawing from Afghanistan.

And, you know, those desperate Afghans were like the babies over the barbed wire.

That's what she's evoking to me.

We're bringing a baby.

We're passing a baby through a crowd of strangers and it's going to wind up somehow in Kamala's safe hands.

Oh my God.

Is America the baby?

I don't know.

Is that the metaphor?

But honestly, what idiot would hand their infant child through a crowd of people in the hopes that Kamala Harris would then touch it or bless it or kiss it?

That is absolutely foolish and stupid.

I don't even know if I believe it.

I don't know if you guys,

exactly.

I had the same question.

This might be a Kamala invention.

And I love how she's like touting.

It just feels safe and, you know, looked after.

Meanwhile, she's married to a guy who has a serious allegation that he abuses women.

So, I'm like, oh, you know, maybe she is seeking some sort of safety or someplace she can go and really feel protected.

I really just thought, look, you know what you married, right?

He denies it, but I totally believe the allegation, and I've spoken with the accuser.

Okay, so that's Kamala.

She's doing her thing.

Now, elsewhere on her book tour, she was in New York City and she was trying to tell everybody how great she is, and she got interrupted by Gaza hecklers.

You know, the Hamas Nicks are out there.

And here's how that went: Sat 26.

That's freezing.

That's freezing.

And you guys, listen, listen, listen, please, please.

I actually also write about this,

okay?

Which is

about

what I know about how and why you are saying what you are saying now and how I felt about it.

You're not letting me talk.

You know what?

I respect your right to speak, but you're not going to talk to me.

Okay, let's bring the temperature down.

Let's bring the temperature down.

Unlike the current president of the United States, I got it!

What's happening right now in Gaza, what is happening to the Palestinian people, is outrageous and it breaks my heart.

I get it.

I get it.

I love that she tried to hawk her book to the Hamasniks.

Right.

As I wrote about in my book.

I got a chapter for you guys.

Right.

Right in the middle there.

It's in there.

By the way, you know, when I went to look at the latest on this, on Kamala being interrupted by pro-Palestinian activists, everything that came up was from the election.

Like

in my Google search.

Like I wasn't getting anything current.

Like

on her book tour.

I think I saw one article that was like

she was speaking in Times Square.

Oh, no, it was the cut.

It was about the other Belulus at the cut who believe that she won.

Oh, the Belulus.

Yeah.

But no, you're not seeing any of this that like she's getting any sort of pushback on her tour from the far left.

Yes, I'm not surprised.

I guess the media still wants to run cover for her.

Although, if she actually does declare and put herself in a primary race, that will stop real quick.

Please, please, please.

I know.

So you mentioned the Belulus.

There is a group of people, I didn't know this, Maureen, until my producers brought this to us, that believes Kamala Harris won the election.

And, you know, as much as the left criticized Trump and, you know, his core faithful for saying he won 2020, they're out there saying, I'm quoting here, she's the president.

She won.

They believe that Elon Musk's internet provider, Starlink, manipulated votes.

How could could it not have been voter fraud?

One asked.

And they call themselves the Bolulu crowd.

Why again?

It's a riff on Dolulu.

Like Delusion.

Like you're delusional.

And they lean into that.

Yeah.

So weirdly, I haven't heard this reported anywhere other than the cut.

What do you make of this?

Is this just an extension of the leftist refusal to believe anything positive about Donald Trump?

It's so strange.

To me, it does feel like a mirror image of those who sort of refused to believe that Trump lost in 16.

So it doesn't feel 20.

Sorry, 20.

So that doesn't feel so strange to me.

But what does feel strange is the cohort that were profiled on the cut were like leaning into all of it.

They were basically like, yeah, we're the semi-alcoholic wine mom.

Like, where's the Chardonnay bar at this joint where we're waiting to hear Kamala speak and they pay for like an hour of getting a bunch of word salad?

I mean, I know we're going to hit.

They're like roadies.

They are.

They're like groupies.

They're groupies.

They're groupies for

what?

Right.

I don't know.

They love salad.

It's not clear.

But can you be semi-alcoholic?

That's another question I have based on your comment.

I know we'll have to find out.

Now, before we leave presidential politics, President Trump is doing a lot to the White House.

Put up the flags.

He's doing a ballroom.

He changed the rose garden so that he had like a place to actually sit and meet with people.

And he also has rearranged the presidential portraits, which he was showing off the other day.

And here's some video.

They're all lined up one after the other.

You can see them all.

There's Nixon.

Oh, there's Clinton.

Yep.

There's George W.

Bush.

There's Obama.

There's Trump.

And there's

the auto pen.

That's hilarious.

And then there's Trump again.

That is one of the funniest things I've seen.

Can you believe it?

In a long time.

He took away Biden's picture and he put up the autopilot.

I love that.

I love it.

And it's, again, it just goes to all of this rewriting of history that Kamala is doing right now on tour.

Good luck with that, you know?

But it's I love his sense of humor.

We're going to really miss it when he's gone.

We are.

I mean,

that feels almost like, I don't know if you grew up as I did reading Mad Magazine.

Yeah.

But that feels like a very mad magazine adjacent thing to do.

People, he's underestimated for his sense of humor and his willingness and desire to make us laugh, which he does so well.

I think it's a totally fair thing to do.

His predecessor tried to put him in jail for the rest of his life.

So it's on.

It's fine.

He doesn't want to walk by Joe Biden's picture every day.

Fair enough to blame him.

President Obama, he has some thoughts, and they're not necessarily about presidential politics, though he does continue to weigh in on how terrible Trump is on everything.

He tries to bomb in like the voice of God, like, I will be the final arbiter of whether Jimmy Kimmel should be canceled.

I will be the final arbiter of the James Comey, like everything.

Like, he doesn't realize that he's totally lost relevance.

We don't care.

We do not care, as My Lady says in the We Do Not Care Club.

That's how we feel about Barack Obama now.

But I did care about this.

Oh, we do.

Oh, let's watch it.

We've cut a side of my lady.

Welcome to all new and existing members of the We Do Not Care Club.

I started this club for all women in paramenopause, menopause, and postmenopause.

We are putting the world on notice that we simply just do not care much anymore.

Let's go ahead and get started with today's announcements.

We do not care if you come over to our house and there's a pile of laundry on the couch.

Just move it out the way and sit down or fold it.

We do not care if our hair is thinning on our head and thickening on our chin.

We do not care that we bought the sharing-sized bag of MMs and then proceeded to eat the entire bag ourselves.

Sharing is overrated.

We do not care that we stripped the beds this morning to wash the sheets.

It's bedtime.

We're tired.

Find a sleeping bag.

We do not care if something is not dishwasher safe.

It is now.

I I love her.

Love her so much.

Her name is Melanie Sanders, Melanie without the E at the end.

And she's at just being Melanie on Instagram.

I live for this woman.

Tell me why.

Just because I love her, like her affect.

For the listening audience, she's got the highlighter stuck into like a headband of sorts.

She's always got one of those airplane pillows that you buy at the airport so you can sleep better around the back of her neck.

She's like, she takes off her, like, her notebook is always a mess.

And she's just like crinkling it with the highlighter pen and her the cap in her mouth crossing out what she's done and her agenda she treats it like a real board meeting but she's saying the funniest stuff and while I will confess that I do care even though I am now heading for mid-50s I care I haven't actually lost all ability to care about these things.

I just love some of them.

They really hit home like the M ⁇ Ms thing.

Yes, I've been there.

Not too long ago, I was at the airport and I desperately wanted a bag of Cheetos.

They only had the oversized kind.

That's clearly to share with like a family.

And I ate the entire thing.

I love this.

It wasn't maha.

It wasn't good for me.

I love it.

It was so delicious.

So like I can totally relate to some of her moments and I just love her.

I love that.

You know, I love that she's also.

If you watch it, the thing that struck me is she's got the two, she's got one pair of glasses on and then her readers or whatever her real ones are above it.

It's like she doesn't have the energy to like just swap one out for the other.

Yeah.

We do not care.

So that is generally what I have to say to Barack Obama.

We do not care.

But I did care about this little diddy here, Maureen, where he decided to give us a little insight into his relationship with Michelle.

Here it is, SAT 29.

Since I left office, I have spent

over eight years now

trying to

dig myself out of a hole with Michelle.

And

that's been challenging, but I feel like I'm making progress.

I'm almost breaking even at the moment.

Oh my God.

It's perfect.

He's telling the truth.

Yeah, it's the other side of the first side we always cover, which is her and how miserable she is.

Again, like, I know we've talked about this at length, and it feels like a real puzzle for the ages, but why is he still

whipping himself?

Like, why is he still wearing the hair shirt?

Why is he still suffering?

I don't know.

I don't know about the hair shirt.

I don't know.

Like, it's time.

They can easily say it didn't work out.

We're going to part ways and he's going to go with Jennifer Aniston or whomever.

Whomever.

Reggie, love, whomever.

No judgment.

Live your life.

But no, it's so strange.

And then seeing the photos of them, you know, they're in this very consequential time in American history.

They've decided what better time as what they perceive themselves to be as leaders of the Democratic Party to go yachting with Steven Spielberg.

And she alights first, wearing.

If we could just talk fashion for a moment, I don't understand what this woman is doing.

She's wearing denim on denim on denim, look like a denim like scarf wrapped around the hair, the hair.

And she just looks, but she arrived like five hours before Barack arrived on the yacht.

What?

Yeah, they didn't even arrive together.

That's not a thing.

Nobody wants to do that.

You always want to go on with your partner.

But that, but she does, but they don't.

She doesn't.

She does, and Barack brought his laptop and there are photos of him on Spielberg's yacht, like having a fine time with his laptop, you know, alone at a table.

That's probably how he's happiest.

I would bet he is, to be honest.

I would bet he is.

It's actually, I feel kind of sorry for him, you know, because all she does is rip on him.

And it's to the point where, you know, it's like, if this had been a passing comment by her or by him once or twice, we couldn't make anything out of it.

But it's all she says about her marriage.

The passing comment by Michelle will be the occasional need to try to rehabilitate things where she comes out like, I love my man and we've worked things out and now things are good.

Well, she never says that, that much positive, but she'll throw out like one compliment in the midst of 30 disses.

And what does he say as soon as he gets in front of it?

Like, he can't even look up.

He's like looking down.

Like, I'm just starting to make some headway and getting out of the enormous hole that I'm in with Michelle.

You know, Bill Clinton did a lot worse to his wife on the world stage, and he doesn't talk like that.

That's true.

He seems like he's a happy guy.

Well, I don't, I think that comes from women other than Hillary.

Well, of course, but what I'm saying, he's not like, he's, he hasn't spent his life, even when he got caught, really.

It was sort of like he, he did the sort of things that you do, but you could tell he was just like, I'm getting away with it.

Yeah, totally.

Whatever.

Okay, now, one, I don't know whether this person ever cheated.

I think he had a reputation for being a loving husband and family man, and that's Robert Redford.

Was he?

Was he a cheater?

A little bit.

Okay.

A little bit.

Never mind.

They all are.

Well, in any event, I was a big fan of Robert Redford's, and I know you were too.

And the news has been so busy, I haven't even gotten a chance to acknowledge that he died.

I can't believe he died, but he died 89.

89.

I mean, that's a nice long life, especially for someone who's like living as big and as boldly as he was all over the world and jet setting, which can wear you out.

Here he is wearing or holding his Oscar in that earlier picture at a younger time.

And, you know, for virtually every American woman of a certain age, if you didn't love Robert Redford before this movie, you did after you saw the way we were.

Here's a scene with Barbara Streisand, Soph 55.

You never give up, do you?

Only when I'm absolutely forced to.

But I'm a very good loser.

Better than I am.

But I'll have

The girl is lovely, Hubble.

Why don't you bring her for a drink when you come?

I can't come.

I can.

I know.

Oh my God.

Totally.

I love that movie.

Took me there.

I love that movie so much.

I love how you just sort of, it's like they don't make those movies anymore, those 70s movies where you just sort of sink into it and you luxuriate with these characters.

Yes.

And you really get to know them.

And what I love about that movie is, you know, famously, Redford knew that Streisand really fell for him while they were filming.

And he was very kind about it, but he also used it to help both of their performances.

And she really shone in that movie because of that.

She did.

She really did.

And you, what I also love about that movie is she,

you know, from the beginning it's never going to work.

You know, from the beginning.

And you can sense as the movie progresses her increasing desperation and anger about it, but her attempts to maintain her dignity throughout the whole thing.

It's just, I just love that movie so much.

The whole premise of it is an interesting one, too, because, first of all, he's devastatingly handsome.

I mean, all-American man with the chiseled chin and the tanned skin and the blonde hair cut just right.

Thick hair.

With the, with the...

The trench coat up, you know, just, I mean, right on, Brand.

And he's also a rich wasp in this film.

You know, they meet meet at, I can't remember if it's Harvard, but it's some elite Ivy League institution.

And she's the more loud Jewish American woman, like she's a communist when they first meet.

And she's got her megaphone and she's trying to rally people to the Communist Party and to become Marxists.

And he's kind of laughing at her, but in a nice way.

But they're from totally different worlds, totally different worlds.

And you can buy it because waspy, really rich Trustafarians tend to be more buttoned up and less, you know,

showy.

And women, it could be Jewish, it could be Italian, you know, tend to be bigger personalities and warm.

And you can sense why these two personalities would be like a magnet toward one another.

And the whole movie does such a good job of building this, the tension between them, both sexual and personality.

You know, like you said, it was not meant to be, you know.

But they so want to feel the way they feel when they're with this person most of the time Yes.

That they keep going back for more, even though the other 35% of the time is really a deal breaker.

Yes.

Yes.

And it's so true.

It's it's fire and ice.

And it's they were both attracted to, but I always felt with the Redford character, he, and I haven't seen this movie in a while, and I'm doing a little retrospective, you know?

Yeah.

And so it's on my list, along with, as I told a friend, like my shame watch, which I never saw, was Legal Eagles.

Oh, yeah.

And putting that on my list.

Deborah Winger?

Yeah.

And John O'Hanna.

Yeah.

But he,

at least one point in the movie, he says something to her like, you will not let yourself be happy.

Like you hide behind all of these causes and this agitation politically as a way to keep yourself from just being happy.

And it's so, it, it really, like he hit her id and she hit his id of like searching for something more meaningful in his life than just his own beauty and wealth.

That's right.

I tell you, like,

not to be over the top, but I'm just going to say one nice thing about Doug.

Doug is a little waspy.

I mean, he is a white Anglo-Saxon, Protestant.

He's Presbyterian.

Doesn't come from a very rich family, but he does come from a nice family in the main line of Philadelphia.

And I

love the fact that he's mine.

I love that we're married and I have him and he has me.

And sometimes I'll have a nightmare that I lose him, you know, that something happens where like

we, our family like gets, just gets torn apart.

And those are my worst nightmares, Maureen, because I almost picture that scene where it's like, I'm looking across at this man who I love so much and I feel so lucky to be with.

And like something makes it so that we can't be together.

And I'm like, so thankful that God, you know, thank God nothing like that has happened.

But it's a pleasure.

It's like a gift to love somebody like that.

Yeah.

And in her case, it's so sad that they, they can't be together.

But in my case, we can.

In your case, you can.

But that's, and that's the other thing about this movie that I think, you know, I was watching three days, re-watching three days of the Condor the other night, which if you have not seen do yourself the favor, I mean, oh my god.

They got away.

Stunning.

Stunning.

Like height, both of them at the height of their powers.

And

what was the thing?

Where did I lose my train of thought?

It was about

to be with him.

Yes.

But they don't end movies like that anymore.

They don't end movies where the couple doesn't wind wind up together

or where like the hero of the film has an uncertain ending and you like everything's not wrapped up with a bow.

And I so appreciate those endings because they get to exactly what you're talking about.

Like no matter how perfect anyone's life may look like from the outside, on the inside, we're all consumed with anxieties and fears that are existential.

Right.

That can come haunt you in your sleep.

Exactly.

I also loved Up Close and Personal with Michelle Pfeiffer.

I saw it.

Worth your time.

I was resistant to it because it was written by Joan Didion and John Gregory.

Oh, well, I can see why then, but I really enjoyed it.

I mean, I was not in news when I saw it, I think.

I was, yeah, it was in the 90s.

But I enjoyed this, the segment, and I think it was loosely based on the Jessica Savage story.

Yes, I think that was also my resistance because Jessica Savage was so dark.

Yes.

And

so interesting.

I want to go full dark.

Like, I want to see her snorting cocaine five minutes before air, you know?

Like, that's what I want.

And they really sort of sanitized it.

You know, so, but I'll watch it.

I will watch that.

Well, they don't give her the same ending as Jessica Savage.

Spoiler alert, but you know, Jessica Savage is the reason I am in news.

Stop.

Yes.

So the audience may not even be familiar with her, the younger folks in particular, but she came up in the dot in the age of like Connie Chung,

Barbara Walters, when there really weren't many women in news at all.

She was stunningly beautiful.

We'll drop in some pictures of her for the YouTube audience at this point.

But she had a great voice.

She had a great presence.

She projected tough, like beautiful but tough.

And

she decided she wanted to be in news at a time when you just couldn't get in news as a woman.

It was very, very, very hard.

But just through sheer tenacity, grit, and ambition, she did it.

And she got hired at NBC, where she then became a star.

And speaking of like the trench coat with the power up on the outside of the like those gray Pentagon walls, that was her.

And she became a star, but she was tortured.

She was a tortured personality.

And she had an eating disorder and she was full of anxiety at NBC and she had to be totally perfect.

And she actually did a great job of being perfect for a long time.

And then drugs started to take over her life.

And she infamously had an on-air meltdown while delivering the news into camera.

on NBC where she became thick-tongued and started slurring.

And it was shocking.

I mean, it would be truly like if in the dawn of Peter Jennings' reporting age, he started to go thick-tongued and started slurring a kunga or,

you know, like, you're like, is he having a stroke?

And you could tell she wasn't having a stroke.

It seemed like she was, you know, drug-addled and she was.

Good evening.

President Reagan has canceled his planned visit to the Philippines.

The White House blamed the press of congressional business, but did not deny fear for the president's safety.

The Supreme Court today left intact rulings of constitutional right to own a handgun.

And now this.

And then her ending was just so dark.

You know, I mean, it's a matter of historical fact, so I'm not really spoiling anything, but she dies in this

trench in New Hope, Pennsylvania on a rainy night.

And I've seen exactly where she died, where she was like...

backing out of this restaurant and I don't even know why there was this huge trench there, but it's almost like a little creek

and she couldn't see and she, I I think she went over a fence that had been there and she backed in and she was with her dog Chewy, who she loved.

And the car flipped so that they were stuck in the muddy, watery ravine.

So she had, forgive me, this is going dark now, but she had such a terrible death and such an interesting but tortured life.

And I know that part wasn't so inspirational, the drugs and the anxiety and the ending.

But the fact that she pulled herself up out of nothing with no connections and made it into business, you know, at a time when it was much tougher than when I wanted to get in, was my inspo.

I saw the Jessica Savage story on lifetime TV when I was an unhappy lawyer.

I had made a resume tape.

That's all I had, but no connections and no will to call anybody because I was afraid of rejection.

And that day I was like, fuck it.

I'm going to start calling cold calling news director.

This is incredible.

Did you do like a second memoir?

Like, you got to put this in.

Like, so because I find this fascinating too, because I find Jessica Savage just as compelling as much for the dark stuff, if not more, because we don't see this anymore, right?

And one of the shows I've been talking a lot about on the nerve that I have fallen in love with is The Newsreader, which is an oh, yeah, it's on my list because of you.

You gotta watch it, it's foreign would love it.

It's Australian,

and it's set in the 80s in a newsroom in Australia.

And the female anchor is played by this incredible actress named Anna Torv, who is related to the Murdochs.

She is a cousin of Lachlan and James, etc.

And she is very much in the Jessica Savage mold.

On air, perfect.

Off air, she struggles with what seems like bipolar disorder.

She has eating issues, all of it.

But it makes her such

a, I think that's why people kind of really were drawn to Jessica Savage.

They sensed there was something deeper underneath there, you know?

Yep.

And to see a woman like that and all of that complexity, you know, making her way through sheer dint of talent and grit,

again, something we don't really see that.

Now we see like the Nepo babies, you know.

Yes, exactly right.

Yes.

Well, one final word on Robert Redford.

I will say something about him.

He

wrote me a personal handwritten note.

Now, obviously, he was a Democrat because it came after that debate with Trump.

Of course, he and the left loved me for that, you know, two minutes.

But I'm not going to lie, a note from Robert Redford is a note from Robert Redford.

I was,

He basically said he was proud of me and he thought I was a great journalist.

Yeah.

And he didn't mention your looks.

No, God, no.

No.

That's what they used to call in the late 90s, early aughts, a neg.

What's that?

Have you ever heard of that?

No.

So I had to have a guy describe this to me as well after a weird incident at a bar with a guy who was like sort of weird.

And he was like, you just got neged.

I said, what is neged?

He said, that's when a guy will nearly insult you or not mention the obvious as to why he's even talking to you.

It's sort of a way that like a guy is trying to punch up a little bit.

We'll try to bring you down so they can like engage.

Yes.

And there was a whole book written by a Charlatan who went by the name Mystery.

It wound up on the New York Times bestseller list.

Anyway, I think Redford was nagging you a little bit.

Well, I took it for what it was worth.

I was thrilled just to give him a drink.

No, you should.

I mean, even a nag is a, is a, is a, is a pro.

Yeah.

No, it means like he wasn't going to mention the obvious thing, you know, that you were obviously beautiful, and that was part of why he was writing to you.

You know, you had a little crush, maybe.

I just think it was a, it was like, I got a lot of admiration from Democrats for that moment.

Meanwhile, I was like, let's see if you like me if I ever get to host a Dem debate.

You know, like, this is, I wasn't trying to take down Trump.

I was mean to all of them.

And I would be even meaner probably if I had a bunch of Dems, but they don't have the stones to sit with me.

Then Robert Redford came on my NBC show.

No.

We have videotape of it.

I don't think we have a sop, but we have have videotape of when he was there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

He's walking out with Jane Fonda.

So it made it very complicated for me.

And look, there I am sitting with Robert Redford.

And I've got to tell you a crazy story.

So, do you remember how I asked Jane Fonda about her plastic surgery and it made headlines all around the world?

I do.

And people said, Oh, you're so insensitive.

Meanwhile, she had talked about it in every other interview.

Why can everybody else ask about it?

But I can't ask about it, but whatever.

The reason I did that, the reason I went there is because Robert Redford's publicist was in the audience, like in the front row, and hers wasn't.

And she came to me right before I asked that question, whatever break was there.

I can't remember if it was at the top of the segment or in between two segments, but she came to me and she was like, please don't let her talk about the sex scenes.

She's making him totally uncomfortable.

She, Jane Fonda, is making boss.

Yeah, totally uncomfortable.

She's obsessed with the sex scenes.

He's not into her that way.

She keeps wanting to talk about them and he hates it.

So she, like, I was trying to do him a solid by going to a place I thought Jane Fonda also was very willing to talk about and to protect Robert Redford from having to listen to that shit about their sex scenes, which he was uncomfortable with.

And no good deed goes unpunished, Maureen.

Robert Redford, poor Robert Redford, at like 70, 75, he still can't get off his cross.

Like every co-star is like, I just want to F you, man.

Exactly right.

Well, we will miss him, but what a legacy.

What a life he led.

All right, we've got to take a quick break.

Maureen's going to be here for plenty more.

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Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show here with me today, Maureen Callahan, host of The Nerve on the MK Media Podcast Network.

Go to the nerve show.com, subscribe on all podcast platforms and on YouTube.

Get in on all the fun.

Maureen is back on Tuesday as the show keeps growing.

It's a hit by any measure.

And if you want to see yours truly and Maureen together on tour, go to megankelly.com and get your tickets now.

You won't be sorry you did.

So now speaking of my time on the Today Show,

our favorite person, Hoda Coppi, who really just wanted to spend time with her daughters.

That's why she had to leave her post at the Today Show.

She's all about being a mom.

and doing what matters is back out with yet another product that she's hawking.

This time it's some book, which sounds like it's full of complete inanity.

What's going on?

I just like to say I normally try to patronize my local bookstores because I believe in that.

And I was at a local bookstore yesterday and I was like, I cannot buy this book and approach any register.

You could read the Kamala book and you can't buy the Hoda book.

I'm buying it, but I'm buying it on Amazon Prime under a pseudonym.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, I won't.

But yes, I'm reading all of this stuff.

So I just read the extract in people.

Oh, God.

Okay.

Yes.

Yes.

It sounds ridiculous.

I have it here somewhere.

Let's say you keep going.

So

we are revisiting for the eight millionths time.

There are a lot of parallels with Kamala.

We're telling the same story over and over and over.

Yes.

I'm back in her dressing room at the Today Show while she's breaking the news.

And it's amazing to have her version of events where like...

Her co-star on the fourth hour, Janet Bush Hager, is

quote unquote devastated that she's leaving.

It's not like an all-about Eve thing here where we're like, oh my God, finally, the mantle is mine.

Let's get real.

That's what's going on.

It's my show now, bitch.

Finally, you're leaving.

No, Jenna's devastated.

She's going, no, no, no.

Okay.

Wait, I found it.

This is what they say.

Okay.

The book, it's called Jump and Find Joy.

Book highlights via Amazon.

In her quest to better understand change,

what?

And how to work with, not against it.

Hoda relies on her reporting instincts to investigate

how change works, who, in all caps, is approaching it with grace, and what she can apply to her own life and share with others about how change works.

So you're going to get the wisdom of change

experts.

who's an expert on change a change expert a change expert it's a new lane insights

insights from the latest work on resilience and deeply personal stories from celebrities and generally inspirational people in our own communities and then the headline is it will shed new light on the moment she realized her engagement to joel shifman was over in 2022 she went to the hoffman Institute and realized she was totally ready to dump him, even though they have two daughters together, very young ones.

Well, they were never married.

No.

So I always found that weird.

Like you're adopting with somebody you're not married to.

What are you doing to these kids?

What are you doing to these kids?

Well, when you're hodoky, they'll give you the kids.

Yeah.

You're purchasing them, which is my opinion.

But she, she gave this.

So, okay, she's going to shed new light.

Anytime someone's like, I'm shedding new light, they're lying.

They're not shedding anything.

She used a bunch of word salad to say, well, the reason we broke up was like, I don't know.

I realized at some point this wasn't going to be the thing that was going to manifest for either one of us.

It's like, I think, I emailed a friend of mine.

I was like, what does this mean?

My friend emailed back like lengthy, lengthy explanations.

She's saying this.

She's saying that.

I said, I think she's saying she caught him.

messing around.

Oh, that's it.

Oh, that's it.

Wait, I got to look back at these quotes that are in here.

She said, she said, because she went to this thing called the Hoffman Institute, where people go to like work on their issues.

And she felt like everything had shifted after she attended a a one-week retreat there,

explaining that she had an epiphany during the retreat and began to feel like she was a total phony on her relationship.

Our us felt different.

She also called the decision to split from Joel one of the best 10-second decisions of her life.

I think sometimes you know that a relationship is good, but it's not deepening.

We will co-parent in a beautiful way.

Okay.

I'm sorry, but like their kids are young.

It's two daughters.

One's eight, one's six.

Like maybe decide that before you decide to adopt the two children.

Like she just kind of threw away the relationship.

It seems to me rather cavalierly after an epiphany at the Hoffman Institute that things were not deepening.

I mean, listen, I have a divorce on my record, but my first husband and I got divorced.

We did not have kids.

I think when you have kids, a six and eight-year-old, maybe ideally in a perfect world, it would take time for you to end the relationship again.

They weren't married without just for something more than it's not deepening.

Yeah, I mean, listen, I'll say as a product of a difficult home, home, I do wish my parents had like made good on their multiple threats to divorce.

But,

you know, which is it?

She either had to go to the Hoffman Institute to do deep work for a week or she had a 10-second epiphany.

Well, it's perfect that she was at the Hoffman Institute because we've talked about this many times, how the people who are constantly focused on this bullshit are the least happy people.

You say this all the time and it's like every time you say it, it's like, it's another epiphany.

It's like, yeah, it's like if you're perseverating on, first of all, if you're, if your world is that myopic, that it's about you, you, you, you, you, you are a bore.

You are a limited, non-intellectual, non-interesting person.

You're a bore.

Yes.

And this is why she's telling the same story over and over.

Now we're revisiting Departing the Today show.

Could you imagine, Megan, if you were still like, I'm talking about Departing the Today show for the millionth time.

Honestly, this week I brought it up, the blackface thing, because of Jimmy Kimmel and like how he did it all these times.

He never got canceled and he never cried any tears for me or stuck up for me.

But I hate going back to that because it's like, by this point, it's such a beaten horse.

It's like, oh my God, I trust me, I know I and others are like, move on.

But she, yeah, she loves to go back.

And she did go back.

She sat with Savannah.

And we have a little, we have a little clip of her sitting with Savannah Guthrie talking about her book.

Hello.

Hello, ho.

How are you?

This is so exciting.

I'm so happy.

We miss you so much.

I like holding your hands.

I like sitting like Steve.

i know is this awkward for everyone else whenever haley says something she goes haley is awesome

so i was like i was in the in the kitchen i was like mom's a ceo pow pow pow oh my god

she's a ceo like you could just call yourself a ceo founder you could say a female founder a female flounder i love like she's been gone for a minute i could i can only imagine what like the actual people who are still on the today show like see when they see like hoda's on the roster.

It's like she's back again.

And I knew it was grim this week because she also, she did not co-host the fourth hour of today with Jenna.

Oh.

No, I don't even know if we got a guest segment at best, you know?

So it's like, it's like we're sliding further and further down that pole.

They're probably like, we already promoted your stupid app like twice and now you're back for a book.

Like, are you sure you wanted to give up this job?

Are you sure?

She got like a months long departure.

Like, I punish myself because I want to know what's getting pumped into the veins of this country.

It's barely been like half a year.

I think she left eight months ago.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, it's like, give people time to miss you.

Yes.

But, like, now we found joy, which again, tell me how.

Like, give me one concrete thing that you're selling this.

We found joy, but really, we are talking to experts in change.

That's what you're going to find in this book.

You know, this, that for me was such a like a trigger, but not actually.

Um,

the many, many times I sat at the show, like the set of the Today Show, and just I had nothing.

Like in the face of that false enthusiasm, I got nothing.

It's so hard to like react appropriately to that.

You know,

you're like, yay, what would I have done across from pow, pow, pow?

I mean, give me your best poker face.

What would you have done?

You got to play it again.

I have to say that again.

Can we play that?

Rewreck that.

Hello.

Hello, ho.

How are you?

This is so exciting.

I'm so happy.

We miss you so much.

I like holding your hands.

I like sitting next to you.

I know, is this awkward for everyone else?

Whenever Haley says something, she goes, Haley is awesome.

Pow, pow, pow.

So I was like, I was in the kitchen.

I was like, mom's a CEO.

Pow, pow, pow.

They're both doing it.

She joined in.

With her friendship bracelets, she's still wearing the friendship bracelets.

So we sent an interloper, we sent a gorilla into Hoda's launch event

in Connecticut.

In Connecticut the other night,

Jenna got conscripted into doing this like after work, 7 p.m.

Book event at a church.

And I said, you got to go in wearing the basic pitch uniform and you got to put those friendship bracelets on.

And she did it.

She armed up to go in incognito.

Oh, really?

One of our producers.

Yeah.

Yeah, because you said Jenna.

And I thought you meant Jenna.

No, Jenna.

Jenna got conscripted into having the conversation.

Like, let's talk about things that you and I have talked about.

Ab nausea.

Now I got it.

Now I got it.

Oh, I need to see every second of that.

Well, I can only promise you good things.

It's coming.

Yeah.

We've got to be patient.

Maybe I'll consult the Bible on change so that I can just get used to the fact that something's big is going to change for me.

And I read and read this book and watch your segment about Hoda Copy.

Hoda and Jenna and Maria and Maria Shriver, all the great minds of all the, you know, Socratic.

Honestly, I think I was temporarily insane when I agreed to go to NBC I really do sometimes I look back and I think I was suffering a temporary bout of insanity it's funny to like with perspective and time which you can see that in the moment seemed like a good idea my god pow pow pow we'll be right back you know what's crazy trusting the government or some random insurance agent to give good medicare support that's how people could wind up stuck in the wrong plan get this trump's department of justice sued three major medicare brokers for pretending to be unbiased while allegedly pushing people into the plans that got the brokers the biggest kickbacks.

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We absolutely have to keep talking.

It's more important now than ever.

This fall, Megan Kelly is taking her show live to cities nationwide.

To go silent is not the answer.

I'm going.

I'm going to stand on these stages and I'm going to say all the things that we say all the time on this show.

We're going to make it safe for me.

We're going to make it safe for my team and my guests and you.

And do something really important, which is say what's true and what's real.

And I would love for you to join me.

MeganKelly.com for the tickets.

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And we're back with Maureen Callahan, host of The Nerve.

All right.

Serena Williams is in the news.

Why?

Because she was in New York to support her friend Kim Kardashian with something she's doing with Nike.

And Serena Williams was in town to like attend to it.

And she's in some hotel.

We do not know which hotel she was staying in.

She did not publicize that.

But Serena Williams, who is one of the richest Americans alive, was triggered by something, Maureen.

And I'm going to show you what it it was.

All right, everyone, how do we feel about cotton as decoration?

Personally, for me, it doesn't feel great.

So actually, it feels like nail polishing for cotton natural.

Okay.

So at the end of that video, she's plucked one of the cotton balls off of the plant and she's using it it to buff her nails.

And then she

does the hand gesture of like, ew, like where you shake your hands, like, ew, gross.

And she drops it.

Now, Serena Williams is triggered by cotton, I guess, because it used to be picked by slaves and she's a black American.

It's 2025.

Serena Williams is estimated by Forbes to be worth $350 million.

She's married to a very, very rich man, too.

She hung up her racket in 2022, ending a career in which she earned 95 million in prize money.

More prize money than any female athlete in history.

She has endorsement deals to this day with more than a dozen brands.

She's active as an investor in her own venture capital firm.

She's got a licensing deal with a beauty line.

She's launched a multimedia company.

She owns part of the Miami Dolphins.

But she is an oppressed direct descendant of slaves, I guess.

And that's how she sees herself To this day, because I guess generational trauma, as the kids call it, she can't walk by a cotton plant in a luxury hotel to go promote Kim Kardashian Skims line without feeling trauma that she has to videotape and post on Insta.

In her new Ozempic body?

Yes.

Or whatever the GLP one is.

I'm sorry, it's not, but she's on it and she's getting endorsement money for that.

Very clearly.

Well, if it's really, really that triggering, why not name them and shame them, Serena?

yeah why not name and shame that luxury hotel you want to know why i bet she's getting a really sweetheart deal staying there if not comped so she's probably staying in a 25 000 a night presidential suite but she doesn't want to upset the powers that be by saying this is the

whatever and by the way this first of all megan markle's like what happened to me I thought I was your best friend.

Now you're over in New York with Kim Kardashian, who, by the way, is befouling the steps of the New York Public Library

doing a skims event.

Like there are models like on every step in like skims shapewear.

And it's like, this is, is this what is the New York Public Library in need of this much money?

Have they no standards whatsoever?

It's, it, it, it really, it really does upset me.

Like, not much upsets me, but like, that to me is like hallowed ground.

Yeah.

Like, what are this?

What's Kim and Skims doing there?

Yeah.

Is there no standard whatsoever?

Yeah.

Well, I just can't believe how much like the woke leftist types lean into victimhood.

Like this woman has it made.

She is so lucky.

She was born in the United States of America and was raised here and was given all the opportunities that she got, made the most out of them by sheer grit, determination, and talent.

Absolutely, nobody would take that away from her.

Why does she want to associate herself with some sort of trigger by walking by cotton?

That because it just reminds you of slavery?

That's it.

Like, who, honestly, like, we all know about slavery.

And by the way, that's like me being like, I can't walk by the potatoes in the, in the Whole Foods because I'm triggered my people, my Irish people, the potato famine and what was done to the Irish when they came to America.

Like, we can all do that.

That's the great Douglas Murray line.

We can all do that.

We can all do that.

Have you ever heard the joke about the potato famine?

No.

Why didn't they just go fishing?

Anyway.

No, but this is the thing about Serena.

She was always a brat.

Like, she was always a brat on the tennis court.

Like towards the end of her career,

when the at her final U.S.

Open, it was the, it was one or two maybe before the final, I forget, but she was losing and she wasn't supposed to lose.

The narrative in all of USTA, they all wanted her to win and go out as the queen.

And Naomi, along came Naomi Osaka, who was like derailing that narrative.

And when Serena realized Naomi with the 17-year-old was beating her, she started throwing these fits.

And that's a psychological trick to try to throw off your opponent.

And at one point, she goes up to the, she was, um, she got a foul or some sort of technical call because she yelled at the line ref.

I'm a mother.

Oh.

She went into that.

I'm a mother.

You think I would lie?

I'm a mother.

Oh, yeah.

That was like my favorite.

That's right.

All mothers are good.

That wasn't that she was accused of taking coaching from her coach.

Oh, yeah.

And it was banned back then.

It's not now.

Her hot coach, who was like doing this, what I found a very sexual movement.

She had had a relationship with him.

Oh, whoa, what?

I didn't know that.

Oh, yeah.

And the coaching from the stand was like this.

It was like,

I swear to God.

I swear.

Once you see it, you could never unsee it.

You could never unsee it.

You've got to watch this on YouTube.

If you're not watching this on YouTube, go to the one-hour, oh, three-minute

imitation.

Wow.

Well, I say, please just stop.

She's got homes in Paris, Beverly Hills, in Jupiter, Florida, which is one of the most posh, expensive areas you can buy in.

Her husband, by the way, was, was, I think, the CEO of Reddit.

Yes, or co-founder of the Reddit.

Yeah, co-founder.

And he resigned his post during the Black Lives Matter, George Floyd Apalooza period, so that a white, so that a black person could have it.

He's white.

Okay.

He seems scared of her to me all the time.

Whenever I

did her,

that's where I was going.

Like, he seems afraid.

It's ridiculous.

I mean, like, you are hashtag part of the problem, sir.

And I'm sure he's nurturing her fear of cotton

right now as we speak.

Okay, while we're on the subject of absurd people, Megan Markle's back in the news, our favorite.

She gave an interview to Bloomberg.

I know you're aware of this, Emily Chang at Bloomberg.

And they had some casual conversation.

We'll start with,

I guess, Sat 39 for kicks.

Is there an inherent tension in trying to be relatable while also being

a duchess?

No.

Oh, God.

No, I don't find, I'm just being myself.

So I think probably it was different several years ago

where I couldn't be as vocal and

I had to wear nude pantyhose all the time.

Let's be honest, that was not very myself.

I hadn't seen pantyhose since movies in the 80s when they came in the little egg.

That felt a little bit inauthentic, but that's a silly example.

But it is an example of when you're able to dress the way you want to dress and you're able to say the things that are true and you're able to show up in the space really organically and authentically.

Single tier.

Show up in the space organically and authentically.

It's the Hoda Lexicon.

She had it so tough, boreden.

She couldn't be her true self because they made her wear the nude pantyhose.

And just say what you want to say, but I don't know what it is.

What is it you want to say?

Like, get it out.

It's been 10 years.

Spit it out.

What are you trying to say, lady?

For once and for all, spit it out as right.

Yeah, no, I mean, I'm just my authentic self.

That's it.

I mean, truer words were never not spoken by her.

She's like, no one knows who she is.

What we hear behind the scenes is that she's a bully who fires everybody, runs around only worried about herself.

And when she gets on camera, she actually is a decent actress in being like, I'm just this super relatable person with her own flower sprinkles and, and you know candle line.

And I just sit around being like a working mom and just like all the other working moms.

Right.

That's me.

Right.

There's a there.

I think it's before that part in the Emily episode, which is

they're eating smash burgers at her favorite burger.

We have it.

We think you're talking about 37.

Let's see.

Things got real.

All before noon on a Tuesday.

When do you feel the least Duchess of Sussex?

Oh my God.

This woman's an idiot.

Sitting here eating a Tashburger with you and being asking these questioners.

I'm having the same vibe as pow, pow, pow.

Oh my god, yes, yes.

And also, what an insult to your interviewer who flew to Montecito.

When do you feel the least Duchess of Sussex sitting here with you?

Sitting here with you.

She deserved it.

That was, that girl's an idiot.

I'm sorry, but that interview was painful.

Like, she's obsessed with the Duchess thing.

She is, but also, like, again,

you want a a really interesting interview, right?

You really want to go viral and make some noise.

Like, you sit down with an antagonist.

She should sit down with the likes of you.

Oh, my God.

Right.

Or the likes of me.

Or, like, I said on the nerves the other day, like, I think the smartest thing Megan could have done was after we did, which the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences,

how they ignored with Megan with a Y.

We were dissed.

It was wrong.

We were robbed.

Yeah, we were robbed.

I think the smartest play for her would have been to have her people reach out to you and say, hey, I'd like to come play.

Like, can I come and do that version with you guys?

Brilliant.

And she would have been like the next door neighbor that you didn't know moved in, and we're just having like fancy whatever we were.

I don't know.

That would have made us like her.

Yeah.

You would have had no choice.

It would have been kind of sad.

You have a sense of humor.

Right.

But there's, it's no accident she didn't do it because she doesn't have a sense of humor about herself.

No, no, no.

I think she's got voodoo dolls of you.

Yeah.

And you.

Don't drag me into that.

You're in it, sister.

Supporting player.

You're 38.

We got one more to go.

And yet there were mixed reviews.

How did that land for you?

I think I knew who I was trying to meet.

I think oftentimes the negative voices, are they saying negative things and then secretly going home and making single skillet spaghetti?

Possibly.

And that's all right.

They're trying to pay their bills and that's for them to sort out if they're comfortable doing it at someone else's detriment.

From my standpoint, the intention of the show was to share more more of myself, to share tips that I love in my life, and to have fun.

But there's this take that you're glorifying homemaking or glorifying trad wives.

Oh, really?

That feels odd to me.

Yeah, how do you respond to that?

That feels odd to me.

I mean, I hadn't heard that.

But I'm really unapologetic about the fact that I, though, would it be lovely to go and churn your own butter?

Sure, maybe.

I don't have time for that.

I don't have time for that.

And I don't think you get an extra gold star if you do that.

Oh my God.

I hate them both so much with every fiber of my being.

That interviewer is an idiot.

Emily Chang, how dumb is she?

That there's a, you know, there's a criticism that it's like promoting trad wives.

Like who would ever want to be like, you actually promoted domesticity?

Who would ever want to do that?

Right.

You're promoting

cooking and homemaking and taking care of your children and building a warm, loving environment.

But Emily, you know, Emily's really, she's a very serious person because she puts her hand on her chin.

Yeah.

She leans in a lot and she's got the super short hair.

Yes, we're very serious.

We're very, very serious.

And then what a missed opportunity for Megan Markle there.

She should have said, first of all, you're an idiot.

Let's start with that.

And then she should have said, why would that be a bad thing?

Right.

What's wrong with staying home?

Right.

Creating a great home for your family.

I would have loved for her to turn it back on that interviewer.

But instead, she's like, oh my God, I'm getting out-progressived by my progressive interviewer.

So

I'd love to stay at home and churn butter, but I don't have time for that.

Meanwhile, you fucking showed us your beehive.

What are you?

Oh, my God.

Pick Elaine.

100%.

She is.

She is exactly doing that shit because she's part of the 1%.

The reason she couldn't respond, I think, quickly to that is because she's got a staff raising her kids.

If she were really raising her kids, she would know that's the hardest job on the planet.

She would feel it.

She would never get time off.

And you would say, you know what?

There's nothing wrong with that.

In fact, that's the hardest job there is.

So yeah, I would lean into that.

Right.

She wasn't offended because she doesn't actually do that.

She actually does look down on that just like the interviewer does.

That's what happened there.

That's what she's doing, by the way, when she's not taking Emily to her favorite bookstore where Emily's asking, what have you read lately?

And she says, I don't have time to read.

But this is my favorite place to go.

Okay.

The bookstore.

Okay.

Is it Jump for Joy?

Is she secretly ordering?

Okay, so I just want to say that business about,

well, are some people attack me to pay their bills, but then are they eating one pot pasta?

I feel attacked.

I think that was it us.

I do too, but we weren't even secretly doing it.

We made one pop pasta to mock you.

We didn't actually make it to enjoy it.

No, we did.

But then I, so I believe this happened after we started, we stopped filming it, but didn't we try it?

Yeah, it actually was pretty good.

It was pretty good.

Yeah.

It was like, but we can say that.

we can say that

but it was martha stewart's recipe that's why it's good right right we worked off of martha's recipe just like you did duchess and i love how she says um if you feel comfortable denigrating people

Yeah, I do.

I deserve it.

Absolutely.

I freaking do.

I feel that aligns completely with my values.

And

she did it to the British royal family until she killed off

the queen and Prince Philip.

So, you know.

I didn't call my whole country racist like you did.

Exactly.

I didn't kill my grandmother-in-law.

No.

None of that happened in my world.

No, I didn't.

I didn't cut my husband off from his entire family of origin and keep my children from a historical lineage, the likes of which has never been seen since.

Like, get me out.

Oh, my God, Megan.

I have to tell you something.

Before I forget, there is this documentary on Netflix that you will love.

It is called Rebel Royals.

Oh,

it is.

It's like if the Harry and Megan story was funny.

So it's about Princess Martha Luis of Norway, who falls in love with a black American shaman from LA.

Wow.

He's gay.

Oh, that's a problem.

But not for her.

What do you mean?

It's like it's like, it's like this, like you see them like planning their wedding.

And it's so funny because he starts off.

He's on camera first and two, two, two words out of his mouth.

And I'm saying, this guy's.

This guy's a gay guy.

Like, what's he doing?

Four words in.

He's like, now I am a gay man.

is this a problem not really what yeah because he's like he's like he's he's coming into his full flower because he's gonna become a royal oh my god well yeah who could blame him this has got corey booker vibes

but it's but it's but it's like the opposite of because like you know megan was exactly like the theater kid and megan was like what's a bigger stage than royalty yes but she did she resists it but but like this guy's like all it was

and like even like uh the princess is divorced and um in norway it's a huge deal because like the royal family is really all they have culturally culturally and historically.

It's a huge, huge deal.

So they take it very seriously.

And she's got these three children, girls from her first marriage.

And they're like sitting around the table in LA and they're just talking to him like, yeah, like, you're like my favorite gay uncle.

This is hilarious.

So they actually get married.

Do you want to spoil it?

Oh, no, no, no, I don't.

No, I've got it in our devil oils.

You'll love it.

Now, the thing about the beekeeping reminded me of something.

Guess what happened to me the other day?

I went out on our side deck and I was reading.

And then it got sunny, too sunny.

I was getting hot.

So I went over to, we have one of those umbrellas, you know, that blocks the sun, one of those big like patio umbrellas.

And I went over to raise the umbrella part

and I put my hand underneath.

I got stung.

And then all these bees came out.

I ran.

I ran back into the house.

I was under attack.

I've never been stung by a bee before.

Wow.

Yeah, I've gotten 54 years without ever having a bee sting.

I'm like, where's this going?

So then we called like the bee guy to come deal with this.

And he told me I had been attacked by the bees who were at the outpost.

The big,

what he said was aggressive hornet's nest was up a little higher on the house like by the gutter in a corner which we hadn't seen it was huge i can't believe we haven't been all killed by these hornets which if i showed you this you would like you'd run in fear i had my hand up there there was a second hive i was attacked and as it turns out i have no bee allergy

well you're lucky

that is that is terrifying that is terrifying you think it's like not gonna happen and like, you know, like

a nice porch mask or whatever.

I just cleaned that umbrella in forever.

You know, that was the problem.

Like, we just never raised that umbrella.

And unfortunately, I was the first one to go after like two years and try to raise it up.

And I, I went on Chat GPT immediately to say, like, what do you do for a bee sting?

Uh-huh.

And I did get some good advice.

It said, get a credit card and rub it.

along where you can because I could see the stinger like in my it was sort of on the side of my thumb and rub it and that'll get get the stinger out because if the stinger stays in, it continues delivering like the poison.

And it came right out.

And sure enough, can I tell you, like, it didn't hurt that bad.

Yeah, it's not that bad.

Have you ever been stung by a bee?

Yeah, like once or twice.

Yeah.

It was not bad.

It was not pleasant, but I would have expected it to be horrible.

No, it's not that bad.

Is a wasp worse?

I don't know.

I've never been stung by a wasp.

Mosquitoes take the worst.

Taking your text, your emails now.

You can email me, Megan at MeganKelly.com.

Sometimes I give out my personal email by mistake, and that's

I remembered not to do that.

That's the show email, but I do read them.

But anyway, that credit card will take out the stinger and save you, I think, considerable pain.

So, how about that

for a little fun tip?

Now, while we're on the subject of the royals,

things are happening.

Prince Harry, unfortunately, seems to be making up with the king.

I know.

They had tea and cake,

And he's planning on spending a lot more time in the UK.

And while I feel for King Charles like every parent wants to be with

the son or the daughter, even if they're a ne'er-do-well,

I object to this so strongly.

I do not want those two going back into the royal family, and it seems like the groundwork is being laid.

I object strenuously.

And I think, you know, I also read that Harry has said he is going to enroll his children at Eaton.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

And I feel,

this is my theory.

I feel as though this is Charles waging war on William.

Oh.

Charles and William have a fractious relationship at best.

And William is dead set on slimlining the monarchy, slimming it down rather.

And, you know,

did you see that Andrew next to him at that funeral for the Duchess of Kent?

Andrew was trying to talk to William.

They were together.

And William's like, anywhere else.

Anywhere else.

And

I kind of love, I love William's energy right now.

I find it very attractive.

He's like, don't F with me.

You know, like, I'm like, I mean business and Harry's not getting back in.

But I feel like Charles is trying to,

he resents William in many ways, apparently, is the,

is the line and in in welcoming, in making it clear that Harry may have a way back in.

It's a dagger.

To me, it's a Cainan Abel story.

Yeah.

The good son versus the bad son.

And as so often in families where you have a ne'er-do-well or a problem child who's always causing grief, it's always those ones who get like chance after chance.

I know.

It's infuriating.

Long past the point where the siblings are done with his person.

Exactly.

Well, Prince William did give.

uh an interview and it wasn't about this but he it was kind of personal he uh it was a it was a preview Oh, Eugene Levy of Schmitz Creek did the interview.

He has a new show called The Reluctant Traveler, and he actually, what a get to get Prince William to sit down with you.

And here's a bit of it in SOT 40.

Why don't you pop down to the castle, William, from the Prince of Wales?

Your Royal Highness.

Nice to see you.

We provide this service for everyone.

We do personalized tours everywhere.

What do you do when you're home?

Sleetum.

Really?

When you've got three small children, sleet was an important part of my life.

I'd say 2024 was the hardest year I've ever had.

You know, life is sent to test us as well, and being able to overcome that is what makes us who we are.

His accent is so divine.

I know.

Isn't it?

I know.

It's so nice.

It's the upper crust British accent without like a moment spent on the wrong side of the tracks.

Yes.

Very, very lovely to listen to.

And economy of words.

Yeah.

Not a lot of filler like we get from the Kamalas and the Megans of the world.

We're we're trying to squeeze a cogent thought out.

So we're buying time with.

Can you imagine him across from her having to listen to that?

It's the greatest.

I always say it's the greatest favor she ever did that royal family.

Can you imagine having to sit across from her and listen to the like nonsense and the

social justice warrior language and the this and the?

I mean, no, no.

And every comment about herself.

Everything about herself.

Literally.

Back to me.

Did you know that when I was a kid, I wrote a letter to a dish soap company?

You heard that one before.

Exactly.

I was a feminist right from the beginning.

That's why I relate to you, Madam Queen.

Yes, exactly.

You know,

yeah, I used to eat, I used to read Ms.

Magazine while eating my

tray table.

What do you call those?

TV dinners?

Also, I'm totally ready to dump my own family.

Right, right.

I'm a person of real morals and character, and I totally, I'll dump any, I'll throw anybody under the bus.

Take me, pick me, pick me.

This is a nice nice story that I wanted to get to.

Tim Allen,

you know, home improvement.

Tim Allen, he's great.

He

came out with this amazing revelation today.

I think he posted it on X.

Is that where he did it?

Yeah, it was on X.

And it relates to Erica Kirk, Charlie's widow, of course, and that extraordinary moment that we saw at Charlie's memorial.

My husband, Charlie,

he wanted to save

young men

just like the one who took his life.

That young man,

that young man

on the cross, our Savior said,

Father, forgive them,

for they not know what they do.

That man,

that young man,

I forgive him.

I feel like in a year, that's going to be Charlie getting murdered and Erica forgiving the killer.

Those are going to be the two moments that we remember about this story.

Those two just almost equally extraordinary moments.

And Tim Allen was watching.

And he posted on X, when Erica Kirk spoke the words on the man who killed her husband, that man, that young man, I forgive him, that moment deeply affected me.

I have struggled for over 60 years to forgive the man who killed my dad.

I will say those words now as I type.

I forgive the man who killed my father.

Peace be with you all.

And it turns out Tim Allen's dad was killed by a drunk driver.

And

the the dad, Tim Allen's dad, was in the car with his wife and the kids.

Tim was 11.

I think he was one of them.

I'm not totally sure.

And his mom was killed.

So, can you imagine this poor guy who's gone on to become an international star?

I'm sure he's got plenty of money, all these Hollywood contacts, very sensible.

I think he's right-leaning, though he doesn't totally come out and in your face with it.

And to say he was inspired by this 36-year-old woman at the height of her grieving who did an extraordinary thing.

And, you know, they say like forgiveness, if you can do it, releases you.

It's a gift you give to yourself.

It releases you from harboring resentment and anger and these things that can be corrosive.

Right.

Like what a gift she gave to him, which obviously wasn't the intention, but like it has the effect of, you know, helping others when you do an extraordinary act of kindness.

I had no idea that his father was killed and that he carried that around.

There's so many people who have these, you know, Kelsey Grammar is another who had family members who were murdered.

It's so interesting.

You know, I heard that and I thought,

I don't think I could ever really get there.

Like, I believe in, I believe that there,

so this is just me speaking for me.

I do believe there are people who don't deserve it.

I do believe that.

And I believe there's a, you can make your peace with something that happened that is tragic, senseless, unfair, unjust,

a targeted, deliberate act that was thought through.

I personally would not feel the need to forgive.

That's just me.

I would feel the need to make my peace with what happened.

But as for what became of that person,

not my, you know?

In fact, I'd probably make it my business to make sure that when we were talking about Brian Koberger last time.

Yeah.

And I was like, I believe believe in the God of the Old Testament.

Yeah.

Wrath and vengeance sometimes.

That's what's necessary.

I want him to suffer.

I know exactly what you're saying.

I am more in your camp and I shouldn't be.

You know, I'm a Catholic.

I know I'm supposed to forgive.

We're meant to be persecuted and accept that as part of our lives.

And we are called upon to forgive, you know, those who trespass as we forgive those who trespass against us.

And it's just so hard.

Like, I think eventually I can get there.

You know, eventually on most things, I get there.

I'm definitely not in that mode on Charlie's killer yet.

I mean, that's why Erica is so extraordinary, but she is a truly deeply faithful person.

And, you know, there are sliding scales of how deep your faith is.

I definitely think hers is deeper than mine, and it's uplifted her life probably more than mine has uplifted mine.

It's an inspiration for me, like, try harder, read more, do better.

Charlie was too.

I don't know.

I mean, we haven't really talked about the Charlie situation.

You didn't know him, but

did you see it?

Did you watch it?

Did you?

I didn't watch it deliberately.

My editor called and told me and

said that he had seen it and that it was very clear that he was not going to come back from it, that he was it clearly had been killed instantly.

And then, you know, what I did was I

was out.

I came home and I immediately turned you on because I was like, this is the only person that I'm going to get the real story from, the real thing.

And to see you and Mark and Rich talking about it and holding out the hope.

And you find yourself in that moment wanting to believe there is hope when you know there probably is no hope.

And all of it just seeming so surreal and so

truly senseless and just

a hideous act of violence that took the life of above and beyond anything, a young husband and father.

You know,

I don't know.

It's something I wrestle with.

You know, I was raised Catholic and I'm not practicing,

but

I really wrestle with issues like what is moral?

What is moral?

Is it moral

to make sure that someone who would methodically plan out a murder such as this and revel in it, is it more moral for that person to suffer

or to be removed from society permanently?

Is that more?

I do wonder.

You mean like death penalty versus a terrible life in a super mechs prison where he has to linger?

Both are satisfactory to me, though I believe a person like Erica would say, well,

no,

the true highest level would be to forgive.

Well, she wants, I mean, I don't know, actually, I shouldn't say it, because she specifically said, she said to me personally, and she said in an interview with the New York Times, she said, just leave that up to law enforcement because I don't want that on my soul.

She's so sweet and loving.

She's worried that if she endorses the death penalty for him,

it could come back to haunt her when she tries to get into heaven.

She pictures Charlie there with Jesus.

And if this is not moral to call for a man's death, she doesn't want it to count against her.

You know, she feels like it could keep her her divided from Charlie forever.

That's that's how observant she is and how thoughtful she is.

Meanwhile, I was like, you do whatever you have to do.

The rest of us got this.

Like, you actually don't, you're handling it perfectly because there's plenty of us out there who are calling for the death penalty and whose role that is.

We all have our role.

You know, Charlie used to say that.

Charlie used to say, like, there's some people who are called to be like evangelists for the faith.

And there are some people who are called to go on missions and spread the faith.

And then there are other people who are called to be more rhetorical warriors, where we have to make points and we have to make arguments and we have to make sure that we argue for justice and make sure that there are clear facts around why we need it and so on.

And I definitely see myself in that latter camp.

But Erica's role is, I actually see her right now as a very consequential figure.

You know, I've been thinking a lot lately about faith and God and God's plan and why, why, why, why, why, why, why?

If you would live the life Charlie led, would this happen to you?

And I know that many people believe, and my fellow Christians believe that this too was part of God's plan, you know, that, and also you can argue it's free will, basically, that the master plan of Charlie coming home was God's plan, but that there's free will and that Charlie's decision to go that day and so on, that was his decision.

I still can't like quite get my arms around it, but I do see Erica as like this hugely consequential figure because millions of people have been inspired by what she did at that funeral and feel extra connected to their faith because of her, the Tim Allen thing.

And it got me thinking, like,

what if Erica was always meant, if you believe in a master plan, to be the one who would have the biggest impact on the world, on America, on young people?

I don't know.

Her journey professionally in the public eye is really just beginning in earnest.

And God willing, she'll have, you know, 50, 60 more years to do it.

But she's so extraordinary.

She has a very different skill set than Charlie had.

They're not lined up exactly.

But what if her skill set and what she's about to bring to the world turns out to be

equally extraordinary, you know, to what we got from Charlie?

It's not to justify anything that happened to Charlie.

I'm just saying, like, maybe we've been given this extremely gifted person because that's what exactly what we need for the next 36, you know?

It's funny you say that because I've been thinking about that a lot.

You know, she

before

this tragedy,

her role as as they both saw it and agreed and enjoyed was that she was his helper.

She was the one who was the support.

She was behind the scenes.

And the way she stepped into a public role so seamlessly in the midst of an unthinkable.

unthinkable tragedy.

I thought to myself, you know, this woman,

whether she realized it before or not, she's like a natural leader.

She's a natural public person.

She has something to say and something to offer.

And

what I find is such a fascinating takeaway is, you know, this is still so fresh and raw and it's only been two weeks.

But what's emerged from it is even amid conversations like you and I are having, you know, which is the more moral thing, it seems that there's been a shift towards wanting good to come of this and light to come of it.

From the normies, anyway.

And it, but it's such a stark contrast to what happened after George Floyd or, you know, like the sort of desire to destroy

and to vent rage.

And everybody feels rage.

I mean, I feel, I feel

even in listening to you over the past couple of weeks when this has happened,

I hear the rage in your voice.

And when I hear it, I think to myself, that's good, that's healthy.

Like, you've got to get through the rage of it because it's so unfair.

Yeah.

You know, and that's a healthy part of mourning is being furious.

Yeah.

Furious.

And then you get to the other side where you can really begin to see after the dust settles what the larger point of it may be that is so beyond our own understanding.

Yeah, I feel like I'm at the beginning of that.

You know, I'm just putting a toe into reconciliation and, you know, acceptance and understanding.

But yeah, I have felt rageful for sure.

And I have,

it has been cathartic.

You know, people ask me about the show all the time.

This is my therapy.

This is my catharsis to sit on this set and be able to say what's real,

what I think about the news to help other people who are trying to navigate a very difficult news landscape.

If I don't do this, I don't know what I'd be doing.

I'd be, I'd be, if I have a day off, Maury, and you just see me kicking around the house like, I don't, I'm like, I accomplish nothing.

I, I can't do anything.

I'm just like, it's four o'clock in the afternoon.

I've done nothing.

I just like, I don't even know what to do with myself.

Now on the weekend, we have it structured where like no one expects me to be at work.

So like my kids are there and Doug is there and we like, I know what to do.

But if I have like an unexpected weekday off, I'm like, who am I?

I have no habits, no hobbies.

I don't know what to do.

So I love coming out here and having my say.

And I've definitely felt rageful.

And that thing you said about the day it happened,

you mentioned Mark Halperin.

That is one of the lasting images I'll have is Mark, who is such a like tough reporter.

He's a reporter's reporter, you know.

And I was shocked to see Mark openly weeping and really with the handkerchief like non-stop.

And I was feeling it too, but, you know, I kind of expected that from myself.

And it was something that really moved me because, you know, here he is this man, like this chiseled reporter, you know, shoe leather guy.

And it was just a moment where your humanity took over no matter whether you were a man or a woman or, you know, shoe leather or not.

And I heard from so many in the audience, men and women who are feeling and going through exactly the same thing at the same time.

When I saw that, my heart just went out to him.

It went out to him because I could see him looking out of frame down at his phone and knowing that he was getting updates, updates, updates, and that they were terrible.

And he looked looked like he was just somewhere, like he just had to rush himself into some sort of closed room that was like a conference center or whatever.

So you're already probably feeling very discombobulated and you're getting this and you're trying to relay what you know of this person.

And like when he said, I've, I just caught myself speaking of Charlie in the past tense.

And I hope that I will be having a beer with him down the line and saying, remember that.

You know, and we all relate to those moments when we've heard a loved one has, and it's sudden, you know, you you were.

Matthew McConaughey was talking about this with you.

Yep.

And

God, like, what an impressive guy he is.

Wasn't he amazing?

Like, if you said,

Matthew McConaughey, deep thinker, you know, you go, but what a deep thinker.

Yeah, his image

doesn't necessarily line up with what we experienced in that hour.

And the way he was talking about raising his kids.

Yeah.

You know, he, he lived it.

You know, he intentionally left Hollywood.

He went back to Texas.

He raised his kids there for a reason, you know, with intention.

He's from Texas.

He's not one of these like celebs who gloms on and like puts on a pair of cowboy boots and is like, I'm from Texas.

You know, like, no, he is.

He's a Texan.

He donates to the university, his time, his money.

Like, I found him very impressive and to have been writing those poems his whole life.

He's clearly a reflective, thoughtful guy.

He really is.

And when he talked about revisiting them and going, oh, this was a really, this was a kid who was really trying to impress himself in in the world.

And he's, I have the thesaurus next to me.

And that really just melted my heart.

I just thought, like, God, somebody with a lot of self-awareness who can kind of laugh at himself.

And I remember watching him in that first true detective.

Yes.

So good.

Blown away by him.

Blown away.

And just, I just, and, and honestly, there are very few Hollywood stars where when something terrible happens, you're like, you know, I'd really like to hear from this person.

Yeah.

It's true.

It's true.

And after Uvalde and he and his wife because they were natives because they're from there and they can speak to it and everything about it felt genuine it didn't feel as though he was using as as one Megan Markle

down there unlike someone else you know which she should never be forgiven for talk about things you never forgive yeah that I would never forgive that it's disgusting you know but yeah I just loved him and oh by the way speaking of rage um I think one of your favorite targets of mine that you did the other day is Jimmy Kimmel.

Oh my gosh.

With his believe with the tears.

May I share my theory?

Oh, please do.

So I watched that.

You know, I had to.

And all I could think of was, remember John Boehner?

Yes.

House speaker, John Boehner.

Who would get on the floor and start weeping about anything?

Cried a lot.

Everybody, the working theory, which I subscribe to, is like either, just my opinion, a dry drunk or an active active alcoholic, and the emotions are always up here.

And so you could be talking about the price of milk, but we're going to start weeping.

Jimmy Kimmel.

Allegedly.

Allegedly.

Jimmy Kimmel, I look at the sudden weeping out of nowhere and I'm like, this guy's not well.

Like, I mean, I think he's terrible, and I think he was a liar.

Like, you said what you said.

We all heard it.

It's on videotape.

What are you talking about?

That's right.

But the weeping, I'm like, it's like, did you lose a husband?

Like, shut up.

What are you crying for?

It's true.

And he didn't cry one tear for Erica Kirk.

No.

One tear.

They were all for himself.

It was so obvious.

It's like if he actually had tears to shed for Erica, it would have happened right after Charlie was killed.

He got out there and cried because he almost lost his favorite thing, his special show, his ability to feel like a star because he can read jokes other people write for him.

I mean, that's his special talent.

He's not some great interviewer.

He's actually not even that great a comedian.

Somebody else writes these so-called jokes, which are not even funny, by the way.

They're not.

They're not

the quote-unquote jokes in the monologue were not funny, not funny at all.

And so, my favorite thing about this is, you know, we had so many of Jimmy's famous friends coming to his defense, you know, First Amendment's on the line.

First Amendment, you know, our way of life, a very way of life is being threatened.

His most famous, famous, powerful A-list friends, Jennifer Anniston and one Matthew Damon, kept their mouths shut.

Yes.

What's up with that?

Oh, I wonder.

What do you do?

They're too smart.

They're not going to go near this third rail.

Yes.

So is the First Amendment under attack or is it not?

Because if Jennifer Anniston doesn't think so, then I sure do not.

I noticed the same thing, like the ones that he's having the weekly dinner parties with, the flight to Mexico,

the yearly johns, to Cabo.

Can I tell you something?

So I don't really know Matt Damon, but I know him a little.

Like we ski at the same place, so I see him every winter.

And he is a good guy.

He seems like a great guy.

He's definitely a Dem, and he was raised by, I think, a school teacher.

And, you know, he's got sort of that union and teacher and blue collar thing.

And

that's great.

But he doesn't put his politics in your face like all of them do.

Yeah.

And he's somebody who's always been very nice to me and he knows my politics.

Of course, I don't make any secret of them.

And that's to his credit, right?

Because they don't all.

That's true.

Some committed leftists will hate you when they find out you're on the right or never mind a trump supporter yeah like you're immediately moved into the bad person category yeah so that's to his credit now you're right he was probably way too smart to touch that with a 10-foot pole i like matt damon a lot i do and i think he's very very smart i think he knows exactly what's up and i don't i didn't believe jimmy kimmel when he said you know i have a lot of people in my life who are on the other side like his eyes couldn't stay to the camera

that's it oh adam corolla that's it we love adam but that's it's a list of one i don't believe that he's got a bunch of republicans in his family.

Bull.

No way.

You know, but, you know, okay, Jimmy.

Jimmy saved his failing talk show for another, I guess, eight months.

I mean, I think he wanted out.

I think he was going to, I thought he was going to use that as his power shootout.

I don't think he wants out.

I think he wants to stay there forever.

He would never feel okay in the podcast lean.

I think he thinks that's beneath him.

Oh, you think so?

Yeah.

I think he desperately wants to hold on to this show.

He keeps telling us how it's like, it's doing well.

No, it's not.

It's not doing well at all.

He's making the argument for why it's still relevant and deserves to be on the air.

Now,

I didn't hear this person's thoughts, but I do know why.

She's busy.

Hilaria Baldwin, she did not weigh in on the Jimmy Kimmel saga, as far as I know.

Well, he didn't give a speech in Spanish.

So she didn't understand the whole thing.

English is her second language.

She's doing dancing with the stars.

This is like, I'm starting to feel bad for her.

Like she's basically just doing anything she can to keep herself in the news.

You know, it's like whatever I can to be on camera.

Like that ridiculous reality show that she and Alec were doing.

You know, her weird stints as like a cook or some sort of home expert on the Today show.

And now dancing with the stars.

And she gave an interview on GMA

where

something familiar came back.

See if you can detect it.

SOT 41.

I mean, this was just like an insane thing that I did.

And I've had so many times.

I'm less and less now because my kids are so happy.

But at the beginning, I was like, am I crazy?

Like, because this really was like a few days.

I signed the paperwork between landing and getting my bags.

Like, that's how fast this whole thing was.

It was like a real, it was interesting because fans started to write into the show just saying you should be on Dance with the Stars.

And I was kind of like, really, really?

And then Dance with the Stars and I connected.

And now we're here.

It was just a very interesting

experience, like, very organic, how it happened.

And so, I mean, I wouldn't have taken this if I couldn't bring my kids but it meant you know they were set to go to school we had all their backpacks we were had their extra career activities and it was transferring them here and they're so happy because it's an adventure you know I was worried that it was gonna be not fair to them but actually it's been one of the best things that's ever happened to them

you are a white girl from Rhode Island

she's wearing a lot of body makeup yes She either went to the tanning bed or, you know, we were buffed up by some makeup artists.

She's camouflaging who she is in many ways.

In many ways.

And, you know, so my favorite thing was watching the expression on her partner's face.

She's like, make it stop.

I'm like, I'm dying.

She's doing the accent.

Oh my God.

I don't want to be standing here for this.

Backpacks.

Get me out of here.

She can't stab herself.

She can't.

It's like a pathological, like, it's the DSM needs like a new categorization.

I don't know if it's like, name it Hilaria Baldwin.

Yeah.

Hilaria.

silent age she's hillary from rhode island she went to boston university she was has a trust fund she went to a fancy tony private school out there like this person is not spanish

i just why why does why does everybody play along though why doesn't her interviewer for dancing with the stars say why are you speaking in a spanish accent right now are you crazy that person is like TV gold keeps going

but i i i just want somebody anywhere to just stick it just somebody from an access or an entertainment tonight, just say, what, I mean, I know she gave the explanation on the Unwatchable reality show, which is she's multi.

I don't know.

Whatever.

But the

partner's like face just dying.

She's like, just like, exit me now.

What would be great is if a white non-Spanish interviewer started to do it too, like, go on.

Or just start speaking.

Like, get me a real Spanish speaker.

Yes.

Like, let's do this and you're native.

She can speak Spanish.

Of course, she's leaned and and she's method, but she's got this thing she does.

Like,

she's doing some weird podcast with her 11-year-old daughter.

I think we have it.

Um, yeah, do we have it?

It's 43.

She does this thing.

Let me see if we have it in this clip.

She does this thing, she did it to Alec.

And I read in the longer clip here.

I don't know if this is in there, but she's like, to Alec, she was like, When I'm talking, you're not talking.

And to this daughter, same thing, like, what I want to hear from you is, anyway, here she is.

Oh, 42.

Let's listen to 42.

Is your your experience of this, your excitement, your fears?

What do you think about that?

What do you, what, do you think I'm crazy?

What?

Yes.

In like a good way or a bad way or both.

But you're a crazy person.

Yeah.

And what's it like to have a crazy mommy?

It's fun.

You're not necessarily crazy.

It's you let me be crazy.

Like

you let me.

do things and you have crazy ideas because when it was up until this year we didn't travel we were just we would always stay at home we'd go to vermont but do you know why

crystal springs no why i don't know why

because

we were dealing with the trial

we were dealing with your dad who was

very sick

the spring break before that

he almost died and was in the hospital We're allowed to talk about that, Bobby.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I've talked about it.

I wrote about it in my book.

Oh my God.

There's a lot happening there, Maureen.

Me, me, me, me.

What do you think of me?

Me, me.

Devastating news about your father.

And it was in my book.

It was in my book.

You didn't read my book?

You didn't read my book, kid?

She's 11.

She's 11, and she's already mimicking mommy's yoga poses in that chair.

Yeah.

It's very sad.

Why does it feel so exploitative?

It feels very red table talk adjacent, you know, where Jada would have the kids come on and talk, and Will and talk about how she was having a sexual relationship with their young son's friend in front of Will, who was cuckolded.

And, like, this all feels so like, like, I think this is a form of child abuse.

I do.

I think it's very dark.

I, like, I don't, I think 11 is very young to be doing something like this.

Like, that's really young.

And, like, you shouldn't be talking about family secrets and like how the father was devastated and almost died and was in the hospital.

Like, this should not be revealed to your child on camera so loosely.

Um, the obviously, the mother's a narcissist.

That was a lot too.

Like, none of that seems healthy to me, by the way.

You'll be shocked to learn that their YouTube channel has 28 subscribers.

Episode one has 91 views.

So, that's it's not going that well.

Here's okay.

Lauren Labruno, my producer, really wants to play one other one.

Go ahead, Lauren, play it.

Yes, at least I do.

No, but the one thing is, I'm being so honest.

You are one of the best people on Danica Stars who is not a pro gleb is one of the best pros the only problem is popularity you have not that many like you're you're known but you're not like super super well known than all these people

but you're more skilled than them

notwithstanding your whoa

efforts she put the shiv in like you learn product of a difficult mother right now how to do this yeah she put the shiv like you know your problem is i mean you're better than they are but you're nobody really likes you that's what she was saying People don't like you.

Work on that.

Try.

Try your best.

That's going to get them all the way up to 100 viewers.

I think.

100%.

I think they really changed things.

Before we leave the story of Hilaria, hilaria,

we've got to have the oldie but goodie.

Do we have the oldie?

Yeah, we do.

SOP 46, please.

We have very few ingredients.

We have tomatoes.

We have...

How do you say it in English?

Cucumber.

Cucumbers.

How you say it in English?

How you say it in English?

She knows how to say it in English.

And speaking of

Hollywood kids who clearly have not been well served by their parents, Violet Affleck.

Oh my God.

Oh, my God.

The daughter of Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner,

by this point, you guys have heard this story, showed up at the UN this week.

in an N95 mask, which she has never stopped wearing since COVID, and gave testimony on how we all need to be wearing these masks everywhere.

Here she is, Sat 48.

But when it comes to the ongoing pandemic, our present is being stolen right in front of our eyes.

For adults, the relentless beat of back to normal, ignoring, downplaying, and concealing both the prevalence of airborne transmission and the threat of long COVID, manifested in a series of choices.

Young people lacked both real choice in the matter and information about what was being chosen for us.

It is neglect of the the highest order to look children in the eyes and say, we knew how to protect you and we didn't do it.

We have access to a technology to prevent airborne disease, something that millions of our ancestors and millions of people around the world today would kill for, and we refuse to use it.

And I shudder to think of where we will be in another five years of unmitigated infection and reinfection.

That's abuse.

This poor girl is not well, but not in the way she thinks.

That's exactly exactly what you know what I mean.

That's a form of child abuse, to let your child grow up and be that paranoid about disease that she thinks the whole world needs a mandatory mask mandate.

And then to allow

a platform based on your parents' fame so that you find yourself at 19 and a college freshman at the UN?

Why is Violet Affleck at the United Nations

where the biggest problems are Israel, Palestine, Russia, Ukraine, and she's at the United Nations, by the way, making a nonsensical argument saying that this technology, which is a physical barrier, it's not Elon Musk's space axe, okay, sister

that our ancestors would have killed for.

I mean, we got here through immunology and virology.

Like, that's the propagation of the human species.

Good point.

Thirdly, this is the legacy of Greta Thunberg.

Totally getting Greta Thunberg vibes.

How dare you.

How dare you?

You

stolen my childhood.

Yo, it's ridiculous.

I can't believe somebody didn't show her Greta Turnberg beforehand and said, do the opposite of that.

So I just read that the latest attempt at thwarting Greta's third flotilla attempt was to play ABBA

as like a sort of like,

this is the biggest cultural thing you got.

Like, is it ABBA?

But that's ABBA's great.

I love Abba.

No, no, I love Abba.

ABBA's amazing.

But yeah, no,

this is wild to me.

And I, you know, the other, my favorite, my other favorite story was,

you know, she, she'll be photographed in LA rolling around in like $2,000 Chloe handbags with her N95 on.

Of course.

And she reportedly, I mean, the Daily Mail had this story that during the LA wildfires, Jennifer Garner, remember Ben scooped them up?

He would J-Lo.

He was in the,

and they went to the Beverly Hills Hotel, reportedly, and Violet threw a fit because she was like, this is some 1% shit.

Like, we shouldn't be staying here too much.

It's like, this is

where would you like to be?

Holiday Inn, what?

Motel six.

Motel six.

Yeah.

Then you'll be happy.

Yeah.

So, this is a parenting failure.

I entirely blame the parents.

And don't they have another kid who's trans?

Allegedly, yeah.

They have another kid who they say is trans.

And then he was with J-Lo.

And she has a kid who's Mark Anthony's, who has declared themselves non-binary.

So great job.

Great job.

You've got three kids who seem pretty addled with mental challenges.

And I'm sorry, but Violet Affleck put herself out there.

So she is fair game.

Yes.

This is very wrong.

This girl is as addled as somebody who's an active anorexic or in a deep depression or has, you know, crippling anxiety, which is clearly what we're looking at there.

I think so.

The proper response from the parent is to say, take that off.

You're fine.

I mean, and to not even get her to the point where when we're putting on the masks, she's that terrified to begin with.

Like, clearly, this girl needs an unorthodox, unhealthy way of showing the world she matters.

Yes.

Of getting attention.

You know, born to two parents who clearly love attention on themselves.

That's obvious.

Who couldn't keep their marriage together?

Okay, fine.

It happens.

But all the more reason your attention should be flowing into your child because divorce can create issues.

Clearly, you didn't do that.

And now she's created this new, unhealthy way for herself, in my opinion, to make herself feel important and relevant and like she's the star instead of all these fucked up parents around her.

You know, it's interesting with the Greta comparison.

You know, her parents are failed performers.

Like her parents are failed actors.

Like, I think her mother's a failed rock star and her father's a failed actor or vice versa.

And they sort of, this was their way of like vicariously getting that, like, that kind of level of fame.

And with Violet Affleck, you know it's what's fascinating to me is and and i think i would be alarmed as if i were her parent that like the way this is manifesting is through masking oneself which if you want to unlayer the met the the metaphors of that oh yeah you know it's deep and and she's coming at the world from a very fearful place of like you should be spreading your wings at college especially like you're a kid who can fly home private you can go on these lavish vacations you can you know you have access to the best and you should be having the time of your life and this girl is hunkering down in her dorm room, afraid to go to like a party.

That's like tragic.

They turned her into a Taylor Lorenz who's like, put on your masks.

This is inhumane, what you're all doing to me, walking around out there breathing freely.

Like, how is she going to function in the world?

How is she ever going to get a job in a workplace?

I realize she never has to work if she doesn't want to, but like, who doesn't want their child to get a job and work and be a contributing member of society?

She's already crossed over to the far left lecturing us phase of progressivism.

Yeah, it's like, it's, it's almost like it's, this is the kind of thing where you feel like you just take the child.

And at 19, I mean, she's, you know, she's on the cusp of adulthood, but you get her to the best of the best in psychiatry and psychology.

You get her to the best.

And you work on what to me seems like.

you know, and I say that, you know, I've talked to you about like being a kid who had real OCD.

Like this feels like a kind of obsessive, totally compulsive manifestation of like what really is like deep anxiety and maybe some anger because a lot of depression is actually self-directed anger because it's too scary to unleash it like at the places and people you really have it for, you know?

Mm-hmm.

I just think if this were my child,

this wouldn't be my child.

I would not raise my child to be like this.

But if this were for some reason,

I would not be going to the therapist.

I would be taking off my work for a year and she and I would be traveling.

We would be going coast to coast in America in our car.

We'd be going over to Europe, maybe go back to Provence.

That was pretty damn good.

We'd be together all the time.

We'd drive each other crazy.

I'm sure if that were my kid for the beginning, and then there'd come a period where we'd settle down into a rhythm, and we'd get closer and closer and closer.

And I'd be giving her all the attention and love that she needed, that I clearly failed to give her before this point.

And we would get super tight, and she would be reminded of what matters and who she is, and that she doesn't need to do this crap in order to feel of value.

But I will say, I think that Dr.

Leonard Sachs, who comes on the show sometimes and talks about parenting advice, you do get to a point beyond which you can't fix what you did.

You know, and 19 is probably pretty close to that point.

Like this needed to be addressed a lot earlier.

And she's, it's been five years since COVID.

She has been in a mask for five years.

It's, you know,

it makes you wonder too about like her peer group and who her friends are.

Because, you know, of course, even before that age, they have a lot more influence than your parents as you're breaking away.

And is this healthy?

And you would think that her peer group would encourage her.

Like, Violet, let's go out one night on the quad.

It's like it's fresh air.

I bet it's the opposite.

Don't you think it's probably like Violet's got her special thing?

You know, Violet wants to talk to the class about her special thing, her weird mask obsession.

I'll bet you out in Hollywood, they're all leaning into this.

And by the way, there's no way every single one of her friends is not masked.

You think?

Yes, she's pissed off you and I aren't masked.

Can you imagine her hanging out with people who are free-faced?

But she does it.

She walks with her mother.

She walks with her father.

Oh, this is the best part.

The Daily Mail pointed this out.

So smart.

She talked about like smoking being a difficult thing.

Like Ben is a chain smoker.

We see the pictures of him all the time.

Like it can't be both, right?

Your parents can't be out in the world bringing in whatever whatever they're bringing in from the community.

Your father can't be a chain smoker.

And you are in an like, and like, I find the N95 mask the metaphor of all metaphors for like growing up in that house.

Like, I am, I am, I am uncontaminating myself from the pollutants in the Garner Affleck household.

Yes.

It is just a reminder.

I say this all the time, but you look from the outside at these like very wealthy, very famous families, and there tends to be a, you know, knee-jerk of like, oh, they have it all.

They've got these multi-million dollar mansions in the Hollywood Hills, these amazing swimming pools and all this staff, the fancy airplane and cars.

No, no, I'm sorry, but like, and I hope that Violet Affleck gets past this.

I really hope the trans kid and the non-binary kid, which is not a thing,

get pulled out of that.

dangerous, dangerous delusion.

But I don't have a ton of like optimism about it because it would require stronger parents than they apparently have.

I hope, you know, sometimes it's like a kid can get there on their own.

And if this is, let's just say this is some sort of her version of rebellion.

It's not sex.

It's not drugs.

It's not rock and roll.

It's an N95.

Oh, God.

Like, let's hope that like she can get herself to the other side of this.

And this, this is just a, you know, it's a very difficult time, 19, really.

It's really hard.

I had a really hard time.

I had an eating disorder at 19.

It was not easy.

But, you know, I got myself out of it.

It wasn't my parents who got me out of it.

I got myself out of it.

You know,

did something happen?

Yeah.

Well, I actually had a mentor who was also a very close friend of mine.

And

we worked together and she took me out.

She'll know who she is if she's listening.

She took me out to lunch one day and she said, We are sitting here until you eat

what's on your plate.

And we're not leaving until you do.

And I actually had, like, I, I had to confess and break down and have this like sort of come to Jesus that I hadn't really had with myself.

And I, I was, I was so weak and depleted.

And I said, I don't know if I physically can because my stomach has shrunk so much and my brain has rewired so much that it doesn't want food.

And I'm going to get sick.

And she said, just do what you can.

Do what you, you know, it was like one of the most loving things anybody has ever done for me.

And she pulled me back by the scruff of my neck because I was this close to needing professional help, like that close.

So, you know, sometimes it's the kid does find their way or they find the people they need to like influence them in the right way.

So maybe she has that down the line.

We have to end it on a positive note.

All right, we're hoping that A, she gets out of like that Hollywood circle and finds people who can be a good, genuinely good influence on her.

The best thing that happened to me this week was

my daughter's playing soccer in her high school.

And it's nothing extraordinary, but it's the games come right after the show goes off the air.

So I have time.

You know, if Abby knows that we have a home game, she blocks my afternoon and I go.

And I'm telling you, Maureen, it is so wonderful over there.

It's just a high school soccer game.

This is not the Olympics or the World Cup or what have you.

Just

yesterday, we went.

We were playing our rival.

When we got there, it was 1-1 because we got there like 20 minutes late.

And so it was tense.

It was like tight.

Finally, we went up one goal and it was 2-1.

And then all you can do is watch your watch, like, please make time go faster.

You know, you're praying.

And the other team's praying for exactly the opposite.

We can still do it.

We've been there too.

And, you know, you're watching your kid out there doing her thing.

You're like, oh, please, God, you know, make it go well for her.

Make everybody have a good time.

And

all the parents who we don't know, you know, because we're new, she's a freshman.

So this is like, these are a bunch of people who have been on this team for a while.

Now, suddenly we're high-fiving people.

We have no idea who they are, you know, but these are going to be our fellow parents on this team for a while.

You come together, it was like the ending seconds when they had the ball down by our goal, and the other team was almost scoring over and over and over.

They had the ball right in front of our goal for too long.

And the parents on our team started yelling, Blow the whistle, you know, blow the whistle, like end the game.

Like, we were over.

It seemed like we were way over.

It was just such a dumb chant.

It was like the ref is going to blow the whistle when the time is over, but you just feel so powerless.

Like, yes, please, blow the whistle.

And we did win, and it was disproportionately joyful to what was actually happening in front of us but that is the stuff yes that's it that's it that's what you need you know like you need moments with your friends or your family or like sitting here together talking and laughing this is the good stuff that gets us it that's it you can again you can i i think about this all the time you can have the trappings you can have the whatever and it doesn't it doesn't feel anything the way that like meaningful relationships with people you love and want the best for.

And that's a rare thing too.

You know, not everybody wants the best for everybody else.

True.

But when you find those people and they're like rare birds and I consider you one of them, you know, not to have an Oprah Gail thing.

But

like, you know, where Liz Gilbert's over there and Oprah and Gail are like, you're my river person.

But, you know, you know what I'm saying?

It's like, those are, those are like, you, those are like the, that's, that's like the stuff where it's like, you feel like there's a bit of like what Matthew McConaughey would probably say, stardust at work, you know, where it's like

things line up.

And we need it.

It's like, it's been such a hard two weeks.

It's when those little moments come, just sitting here with you laughing,

that the soccer game, we have to take them.

We have to recognize like, it's not the extraordinary thing, like you win an Oscar or whatever the equivalent is, you know, it's that.

It's this.

So I'm so glad we give it to the audience too because I know they're at home feeling it too.

They know you.

They, they know me.

And I know they love when we get together because we're saying all the things they're thinking too.

I think so too.

And I think I'm really, I'm just happy to see you in person.

As you know, I've been thinking about you a lot these past two weeks.

And I'm just so happy to see you looking good.

Thank you, lady.

Thank you.

I am doing well.

Great to see you.

All right.

And thanks to all of you for sticking with us.

This is a long one.

You know, we knew we were going to have to do a good chunk on the indictment of James Comey, but I'm like, there's no way we're shortening Maureen.

So we did a long show today.

You can take it however it works for you this weekend, but enjoy lots of love and we'll see y'all on Monday.

Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly Show.

No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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