Dems Mad at Memes, Lemon and Reid's Racialized Crime Comments, and Michelle Can't Stand Barack, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1161

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Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly.

Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show.

Well, the government has been shut down since midnight, and both sides don't seem to be anywhere near a deal.

Can you feel the excitement?

I mean, I guess they did it this time, so that's something new.

Normally, they just do the Brinksmanship up until the last second, and then they cut a deal.

And I don't know, like, okay,

this is

our government.

The Democrats seem more concerned about Trump's funny AI videos that put sombreros

on people.

Then in getting the government going again, we'll talk about what they're doing.

Plus, Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert appeared on each other's shows last night where they once again played the I'm a millionaire victim card.

That's a thing for them.

Joining me now to react to all of this and more is Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and host of Rumble's System Update, Glenn Greenwald.

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Glenn, great to see you again.

Thanks for being here.

Happy to be here, Megan.

Thanks for having me.

I mean, all right, we'll start with the shutdown.

It's going to be fun when we get to Kimmel and Colbert, but we'll start with the shutdown.

So they weren't able to strike a deal.

To me, it's so galling because it's like, what the Democrats are saying is, we want you to undo some of the things that just passed in the big, beautiful bill.

Well, you already lost that fight.

It's been signed into law.

It's law now.

And they're like, we're not going to fund the government unless you reverse pieces of your law.

And the Republicans are like, that's not how legislation is done or undone.

And that's not how spending is negotiated.

And

I think, as near as I can tell, the Democrats are trying to follow the Ezra Klein rule, where he was like, we've got to get out there and fight.

We have that sound bite, do we not?

We have Ezra Klein with his warning.

Oh, no, sorry.

It was an article.

And I'll read it to you, what he said in part.

But this is Ezra Klein saying, we got to fight.

It's the New York Times op-ed.

I often heard people complain that Democrats lacked a message.

What Democrats really lacked was power.

And so we're facing the question again, should Senate Democrats partner with Senate Republicans to fund this government?

I don't see how they can.

We are no longer in the muzzle velocity stage of this presidency.

We are in the authoritarian consolidation stage of this presidency.

I want to be very clear about what I'm saying here.

Donald Trump is corrupting the government.

He's using it to hound his enemies, line his pockets, and entrench his own power.

This is what Democrats cannot fund.

This is what they have to try to stop.

This is not just how authoritarianism happens.

This is authoritarianism happening.

Right now, Democrats have no power, so no one cares what they have to say.

A shutdown would make people listen.

And I think, near as I can tell, that's exactly what's happening now, Glenn.

Your thoughts on it.

I sense this this kind of ennui and almost boredom in the tone you used when you first started talking about this government shutdown.

And I feel the same way.

I was talking to my team about it, you know, this week in terms of how we were going to cover it.

And I said, you know, I feel like this is something, if you pay attention to politics, happens basically every two years.

There's kind of a brinksmanship.

Sometimes they even do shut down the government for the while.

Each side goes on cable all day and blames the other.

And eventually it works out.

I do think that

what really is going on more so than any any fight over a particular budgetary item is the fact that we often talk about how Democrats are so

historically unpopular.

And the main reason is because their own base also views the Democratic Party in a very negative way.

And the reason for that is that they perceive the Democrats aren't fighting enough in order to stop Trump.

And there's a lot of pressure among Democratic Party elected officials, including the kind of message that you just read from Ezra Klein, to show some sort of battle, to show some sort of willingness to confront Trump.

And the problem for the Democrats is not that they keep trying to embrace these almost like theater kid gestures, like, you know, they have humor going on and like trying to curse sometimes or Gavin Newsome, you know, trying to show that he can talk like Trump.

And the problem with the Democratic Party is not that they're not performative enough or fighting enough in terms of like showing this.

It's that they don't really, no one knows what they stand for.

They don't really have any sort of passionately felt views.

And the ones they do feel passionately about, they feel like are too unpopular to really forefront.

And so you have this kind of vapid

kind of theatrical gesture of fighting, but there's just no substance behind it.

And so there's no galvanizing force that it really is generating.

And at some point, they're going to capitulate.

All I can picture is like the skinny kid on the playground up across from like the muscly guy going like,

make me,

make me, right?

Like, you really don't want him to respond, you know, like sometimes you actually need to be able to fight and not just be able to threaten that you're willing to fight.

And I just feel like the Democrats are the skinny kid with no muscle.

They've got no cards to play.

They're going to get blamed for this shutdown.

The Republicans were ready.

to just continue the funding levels at existing levels and said, let's just, let's go forward, you know, as we have been for at least the next seven weeks.

And the Democrats said, no, we want you to take away these provisions that have been passed into law and continue supplementing Obamacare payments, which, and basically funding illegal health care

because the Big Beautiful bill cracks down on Medicaid funding for illegals.

And I mean, I guess there is a real question about who's going to get blamed, but to me, it just seems like the Republicans were willing to continue funding the government and the Democrats weren't.

So the public will blame the Democrats.

Like, I'm not sure exactly how the Democrats win on this.

And on top of all that, Trump is threatening to do more Doge cutting now that the government is shut down, which is his priority, which is his prerogative.

He can do that, which the Democrats hate too.

And they think like their old argument when we had Doge and Elon was the American people are going to hold this against you.

Guess what?

They didn't.

We just saw in the latest New York Times poll, Trump's ratings haven't slipped at all from four months ago when he was doing all the dojification.

So I really just don't see the hand the Democrats have to play other than bending the knee to Ezra Klein.

I mean, the thing is, you know, in our elections, because 50% of the country just doesn't vote because they don't believe in the system or they don't believe it matters.

Being able to galvanize your vase is actually an extremely important

obligation of any party that wants to win, especially in a midterm year when there's no presidential election.

And if you're faced with a situation as the Democrats are, where huge amounts of your voters, your core voters, are really disillusioned with you based on their perception that you're not fighting Trump enough.

And Trump actually himself this week said, you know what, the left

and liberals, they're kind of dead.

They're kind of pathetic.

I was expecting much more of a fight from them.

And they don't really fight anything.

This is the perception that pretty much everyone has, in large part because it's true.

They're led by these really old people who have been around for decades.

They They are trapped between the interests of their donor base, their corporate donor base, and their voter base that has a much different set of ideas about, and they're very, very lost.

And I don't know, I get like, you know, it's always a feature of our democracy that although a party is in the minority, they're still supposed to have a say.

And

it's just that the problem with the Democrats, it was the problem with the Kamala Harris campaign is they don't have a persona like that.

What do Democrats believe in?

They're trying to center around this idea that Republicans want to cut Medicaid, which a lot of the core Republican voters, like the white working class and even like multiracial working class voters in these swing states that voted for Trump, will actually suffer from.

It's not a terrible issue.

It's not a bad issue.

It's just that there's no charisma, there's no energy, there's no like vibrancy.

And when they try and demonstrate it, it's so clearly coming from the script of

a PR consultant that it just falls so flat and almost makes you feel sorry for them rather than intimidated by them.

And that's their real problem.

I love your use of the term theater kids.

No offense to theater kids because you know I have a daughter who loves theater but but I get it it like connotes a certain like at my high school we had groups this is back in the 80s of course the more popular kids were called the swelts you had the jocks they were cool too

Then you had the dirties who were the people who hung out in the smoking section during free time and played hacky sack.

And then you had the creamies who were the theater kids.

It just connotes a certain kind of approach.

And the creamies on Capitol Hill right now want us to believe they're super tough, but we know they're not actually tough.

We know it is cosplaying.

And I think of like Gavin Newsom, who like, he's not in Capitol Hill, but he's like their best imitation of a tough guy, I think.

You know what I mean?

Like, nobody believes Chuck Schumer's a tough guy.

Hakeem Jeffries doesn't seem scary at all.

Then you got Newsom, who's like, oh, I'm badass.

And he's trying to do do the Trump tweets with the all caps and do his best imitation of JD or Trump.

But you can tell it's acting.

It doesn't work if I can tell it's acting.

Exactly.

And to me, this, if you were to ask me, what is the singular factor that explains Donald Trump's political dominance over our country over the last 10 years, they would have no difficulty answering?

It's that Trump, for whatever faults he has, for whatever mistakes he makes, for whatever things he says that you might find off-putting, he is who he is.

It's who he has always been.

It's his personality since the time he emerged decades ago on the public scene.

He's comfortable in his own skin because he's being himself.

And

that's something you cannot fake.

That's something you can't manufacture.

And I think, you know, honestly, if you look at the Democrats who have galvanized people's excitement, for whatever you might think of them, people like Bernie Sanders or Jaran Mandami or even AOC,

they at least have a kind of like conviction, a set of beliefs that they are willing to say.

And yeah, it's authentic, whatever else might be true about them.

And the problem with the Democratic Party is, especially in the age, you know, since Bill Clinton's emergence, which is, which is one of the successes of the Clinton machine, they merged with the elite centers of power in the United States.

So if you want to rise in the Democratic Party ranks, you have to know how to speak to Ivy League graduates from Wall Street and Silicon Valley and Hollywood.

Those are the people who rise, like the Chuck Schumers, the Hakeem Jeffries, the Gavin Newsoms, these people rise because they're very good at raising massive amounts of money from the country's elite.

That's where they're most comfortable.

And they don't have this other side to them.

They can't fake it.

And when they try, it just makes things worse for them.

Okay, so

Trump very effectively, I discussed this yesterday on the show,

drops this video of Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer.

It's AI altered with Hakeem Jeffries, a sombrero comes down on his his head, a Mexican mustache appears on his face.

And then they have Chuck Schumer in an AI voice saying, we have no voters left because of all of our woke trans bullshit.

Okay, so Trump posts this on Monday night.

It's got over 20 million views.

I mean, a way to call attention to a shutdown and who you say is to blame.

Very effective.

It went so viral because it was so different from anything any president has ever done for all sorts of reasons.

And then you had the left meltdown over it, calling more attention.

So it was a very effective, smart move by Trump.

It was, you know, of course, his brand of humor, but it also was an effective political move, I think, as so much attention got called to it.

Then last night, Trump doubled down by putting a new spin on it.

And here that is in SOT 3.

the face of

unprecedented Republican assault.

And the hat comes down and the mustache comes on, but now there's a mariachi band behind,

all wearing sombreros and they're all Donald Trump

playing the guitar, whatever, behind him.

It's very funny.

And if Democrats were smart, they would laugh at themselves or roll their eyes at Trump and maybe come up with their own response.

I'm sorry, but this is the funniest thing I've done with Trump.

He's playing the Trumpet, playing the guitar, doing all the instruments.

Trump and his sobber.

I find it very funny.

But they're not smart.

Everybody finds it funny.

That's the whole thing.

I think one of the most clever things Trump did was...

And to this day, I laugh about this when I think about this, is when that whole thing with Elizabeth Warren emerged about how she faked being a Native American, he started calling her Pocahontas,

which, you know, it's just like the perfect name to call somebody who's this like white lady who tried to be a Native American.

And I remember even one time he had these like elders from some like Cherokee tribe in the Oval Office where he was like honoring Native American Day or something.

And he was like, to them, he was saying, and we have a woman who's in Congress.

We call her Pocahontas.

And

every time he would do it, the Democrats and the media would be like, he's a racist, he's a racist, he's mocking Native Americans.

When in reality, he was always mocking elizabeth warren for pretending to be native american he was never mocking native americans himself and the more angry they got the funnier it became this is so basic like how do you not know this you know it's like if you go on the internet and somebody's mocking you the worst thing you can do the best thing you can do for them is get up on your high horse and say how dare you like everybody knows this this is so basic and so I don't know.

They've been doing this for eight years.

They like play right into Trump's hands so perfectly.

And, you know, you can make an argument like, yeah, the president should be above that, but that's no longer our politics.

That's the politics that Trump broke.

I don't think people like that in our politics that everybody has to pretend to be one thing, but in reality is something else.

And this is the kind of thing people laugh at over the water coolers, even if they know that they're not supposed to.

And it is a huge, powerful weapon that Trump has that Democrats still, you know, like, oh, he's going to go around and be like, this is racist.

This is bigotry.

How dare?

I mean, it's just, it's so, it makes it funnier, honestly.

Yes.

And that's why they double down on it.

No one's moved by that.

And someone should tell that to Teresa Fernandez, Representative Dem from New Mexico.

Here she is in SOT5.

That's right.

And then what does that shameful man do?

After a meeting where you're supposed to be working out details, where you're supposed to be negotiating a deal,

you post

something

that draws a sombrero and a mustache.

Yes, that's the move correct oh the horror the horror you're supposed to be working I mean truly who responds to that school marmie scolding Glenn

I mean you like yeah you feel like you're in eighth grade and somebody's just like you know you did a little harmless joke and now somebody's standing over you saying this is inappropriate but I do want to say I think there's something a little bit deeper going on here which is that you know one of the things that is is odd about it is Hakeem Jeffries is actually not Latino he he's he's black right and I remember that that's the funny part about it.

And this is what, right?

That's what's, it would be one thing if it were like actually a Latino person, and then people would be like, I don't know, that seems kind of racist.

But the fact that he's not even Latino, and I remember, this is one of the other funniest things I've ever seen was, remember that time when Trump went before that Black Association of Journalists to be interviewed in the height of the campaign?

And he just threw that thing out there where he's like, oh, Kamalo is black.

I never really even knew she was black.

And I remember talking to people.

And

yeah.

And then what happened was CNN went to like a black barbershop, which is where like CNN thinks all the real black people congregate.

That's how they show their authenticity.

They go to the black barbershop in Philadelphia.

And there were like these 12 black guys sitting around in the barbershop.

And the CNN correspondent went in and said, yesterday, Trump said that Kamala is not really black.

Do you think she's black?

And of course, they were expecting her to say, them all to say, like, yeah, of course she's black.

And they all kind of looked at each other.

And one of them finally was like,

I don't know.

Is she?

And then a couple of them were like, I don't think so.

And this is a major, yeah, this is a major split in the problem.

This is a major problem of the Democratic Party is that they're like, look, we have all these black people.

We have Kamala Harris and Hakeem Jeffries.

These are people who look like they just came out of boardrooms of like Aetna or, you know, like some kind of like, you know, bureaucratic general council meeting.

These are not people who identify, who, who seem like to resonate with the kind of black voter that Trump has had success in attendance.

And I think that's part of it too, is kind of like

blurring the lines of what Hakeem Jeffries really is.

Because at the end of the day, he's really just like a swamp creature who's most comfortable with DC lobbyists and fundraisers and not with the people he purports to represent.

Board meeting for Ed.

That's how I always thought of Kamala Harris, like coming out like in her suit, like being like, well, we've adopted some very important protocols for insurance claims, you know, and that's who the Democratic Party keeps putting forward.

And Hakeem Jeffries is very much like that.

Yes.

Oh my God, it's so funny.

Oh, This whole thing is so funny.

Okay.

Here's Hakeem Jeffries,

fresh out of healthcare reform,

reacting to Trump's AI video.

Here it is, for

Mr.

President, the next time you have something to say about me,

don't

cop out

through a racist

and fake AI video.

When I'm back in the Oval Office, say it to my face.

Say it to my face.

Okay.

Again, it's the skinny kid on the playground.

And by the way, you'd be better off doing that, Hakeem, without the, whoo,

yeah,

whoo!

And the little mild milquetoast white lady with the glasses behind you in the suit shaking her head mildly, yes, yes, go, Hakeem.

Also, it took like two or three days for him to come up with that like this video first emerged you know a couple days ago like if that were really his visceral reaction like that mfr you know i'm going to go down to the oval office let him say that to my face maybe that would be a little convincing but this was something like that they're about that they script yeah if well that's but that's not who he is and that's the problem right like if he were that and he he would have reacted that way immediately and maybe that would have been more effective but this was something that happened after a couple days of them like sitting in planning strategy meetings, saying, Oh, let's have Hakeem get up to the microphone with Maxine Waters behind him making like noises and pretend that you're now not offended anymore, but ready to fight over it.

It just, it just comes off as so inauthentic, really so pathetic.

And I'm sure Trump's going to put a sombrero on his head when, like, today, later today, when he they show video of Hakeem saying that, yes.

And by the way, um,

I just feel like Hakeem,

the whole thing is empty because of course Trump would say that to his face.

Trump says whatever the hell he wants right to the face of whoever is sitting there right in front of him.

I mean, like, think of what he's been saying to world leaders just over the past couple of months.

He just doesn't care.

Like, the notion that Trump is too afraid of Hakeem Jeffries to mock him in person, okay, try that on somebody else.

But I actually think if I were advising the Democrats, because their fight is twofold.

They do want, they want these Medicaid cuts because the Republicans crack down on waste, fraud, and abuse in the Big Beautiful Bill of Medicaid.

And they've argued all along these aren't really cuts to Medicaid.

These are kicking people off Medicaid who would never should have been on it, who are taking advantage of a program that they don't belong on and that is meant for the truly needy, like able-bodied young males would be one example.

And

the Democrats try to just say, oh, you cut health care for the poor, but they really are getting funding of Medicaid for illegals back on the table in this fight.

And if I were a Democrat, I would say, you know what?

F this guy.

I'd say, I know none of us wants to pay for health care for illegals.

I get that.

But let me ask you this.

If there's somebody who's here illegally and,

you know, they have a terrible car accident and they're dying.

and they get brought to the hospital, should Medicaid pay the bill?

I mean, could we, in the rare circumstance, foot the bill of somebody like that?

By the way, I think there are already rules where they have to take you if you're dying in these emergency room conditions.

But like,

make the case.

If you actually are supporting this, which he is, make the damn case rather than just pretending that you're not doing it and hiding behind the, say to my face, he's a racist.

We're fighting for healthcare.

Like

empty generalizations.

you know you're you're you're so right and to me this is the crucial point if you talk to democrats like in congress or the kind of people who you know strategize for them which i've had which i have the unfortunate experience of doing with some some amount of frequency these the things they will argue for in a not entirely unpersuasive way are things that they are afraid to say publicly because they think the country is against them.

And I'll tell you something, like when it comes to immigration, immigration has been a winning issue for trump like at the highest level of generality right like people perceive there's way too many people flowing into our country in an uncontrolled way that the communities can't absorb them we don't have the money that it's usually working class americans who suffer the most all of which is true at the same time americans are very empathetic and there's certain levels of like cruelty that they don't i don't think people are really comfortable with like seeing you know farm workers or hotel workers who have just like lived a quiet life of law-abiding trying to make a better family like be treated in a gratuitously cruel way.

So, there is space, even on immigration, for Democrats to make the arguments that they really actually believe in that they want to make.

And the problem is, they're so petrified of their own shadow.

They're still listening to.

Do you think that Trump ever listens to like a Republican political strategist like telling him how to speak?

Or never, never.

And even if they write speeches for him sometime, and he's like five minutes, he's super bored, and he goes back to being Trump.

The Democrats are too petrified to do that.

And I do like, that's what leadership is.

Anybody can follow polling.

You know, anybody can follow polling.

That's the easiest and most pathetic thing there is to do.

Leadership is about when you, when you like touch people and like move their emotions, whether it's anger or pride or compassion or whatever, resentment.

These are all things that you have to be able to do in politics.

But if there's no authenticity to you, you're closed off as a person.

You can't connect to anybody else.

You can't move anybody else.

You can't convince people.

And there is space for Democrats to argue on these issues, undoubtedly.

And polls show that.

People do get uncomfortable seeing gratuitous cruelty, even if it's somebody who crossed the border illegally.

If they think they're not here to commit crimes, they're here just to work and to better their family.

But the Democrats are so lost, they're so confused, they can't stop analyzing themselves.

And because of that, they're paralyzed.

You're shutting down the government for a reason.

I know you want to tell us it's all about this one reason, but it's very clearly about this other reason involving the illegals.

So tell me why.

Try to persuade me.

Then if you lose, if you don't persuade me, you've been sent a message that you can then do something with.

But why do we have to have these debates on these artificial astro turf terms that aren't the real thing we're supposed to be fighting about?

This is

a sot from Capitol Hill yesterday where a reporter gets up into Maxine Waters' face.

I'm making that sound more aggressive than it was.

She was just asking her a legit question on this very issue.

Now, Maxine Waters has been around for 200 years.

She can answer a question.

She realizes a microphone in your face is an opportunity.

Does she take it?

Here's how it went.

Are Democrats demanding health care for illegal aliens?

That's right.

Democrats are demanding health care for everybody.

We want to save lives.

We want to make sure that health care is available to those who would die but having the help of their government.

You don't need to ask that question.

You're just trying to get controversy here.

You're not going to get it from me.

We want to save health care for all people.

How are we supposed to help those who won't help themselves, Glenn?

I got nothing.

Yeah, I mean, and that's somebody who is in as safe a seat as you could possibly be in, right?

Like each party should want these kind of like bomb throwers, the ones who just go kind of far.

And I know like, you know, sometimes they're, you know, each side has them, like, the Democrats have Jasmine Kroc.

And I think one of the reasons they like her is because she does throw those bombs and

Republicans have had people like that who do that for a while, plays well on TV, et cetera.

Maxine Waters is the ultimate case of somebody who could do that.

She's like, she's going to, even after she dies, I'm convinced she's going to keep getting re-elected.

And they're going to like prop her up in that chair the way they did with Diane Feinstein.

And so like, why is she of all people afraid to just say like, yeah, we want health care for people who are in this country, who are contributing to our country, who are working, and we don't want them dying in our streets, you know, because we cruelly deny people life-saving care.

Like, why not make that argument instead of acting all offended that you've been asked it?

Do we have the Caitlin Collins-Mike Johnson soundbite, guys?

Okay, because he went on.

Speaker Mike Johnson went on with Caitlin Collins last night.

I just want to play the exchange.

Here it is.

As you know, people who are here in the United States legally have never been eligible for the Obamacare subsidies for Medicare, for Medicaid.

So what exactly are you saying that they're trying to do when you talk about giving free health care to the people?

I'm so glad you asked.

Okay, so when we passed the One Big Beautiful Bill, the Working Families Tax Cut, we had Medicaid reforms in the bill.

You and I talked about it on the air.

What we did was to eliminate fraud, waste, and abuse.

There were a lot of people on the program who were enrolled in the program who were never eligible to be there.

Medicaid is intended for eligible U.S.

citizens, not illegal aliens, not also U.S.

citizens who are able-bodied workers, like young men.

So we passed the law.

The president signed it into law.

Democrats voted against it, of course.

And it's been wildly successful.

The CBO, the Congressional Budget Office, which is the neutral arbiter of all these things, released a report a few weeks ago, earlier this month, and they said, you know what?

The bill has had its intended purpose.

Premiums are coming down.

Listen, because 2.3 million ineligible enrollees have been kicked off of Medicaid, which helps to save the program, prop it up.

And $185 billion has been saved already in photo-wicked reviews.

She's obstinate on it, like refusing to understand what he's saying.

It's been explained by him.

It's in the bill.

I'll tell you the three specific sections that Democrats want to roll back entirely from the Big Beautiful Bill, which I love.

The Republicans are now calling the Working Families Tax Cut.

It's like the names on Capitol Hill, right?

Like somebody realized, oh, one Big Beautiful Bill doesn't really telegraph anything that helps our side.

Let's call it Working Families Tax Cut.

The next bill will be called Will Help You Live Forever tax bill.

Whatever.

Just shove anything.

I dare you to vote against that.

Yeah, yeah.

Right?

Exactly.

Just choose the selection from the land of Eden.

So here are the three specific sections that they want to roll back entirely, as if they hadn't been enacted.

And this would allow free health care to illegal aliens.

One, it's section 71109, alien Medicaid eligibility, restricts Medicaid and other coverage

starting in fiscal year 27 to U.S.

citizens, to lawful permanent residents, to certain Cuban Haitian entrants, and others.

Okay, but it says exceptions remain for emergency services and certain care for lawfully present children and pregnant women.

That's what I was getting to before.

The law already requires you to take care of certain people like that, even if they're illegal and they come into the emergency room, and it still does.

Okay, then there's section 71110, expansion FMAP for emergency Medicaid, reduces the federal Medicaid federal match rate for emergency services provided to illegal immigrants in states that expanded Medicaid.

And then the last one is 71301, permitting premium tax credit only for certain individuals, restricts eligibility for premium tax credits under the Obamacare law to lawful permanent residents, Cuban and Haitian entrants, and individuals lawfully present under certain agreements.

They point out that Biden's administration circumvented this by granting legal status to groups like parolees and asyles.

And basically, what they did was they created an incentive system for hospitals to get reimbursed more if it's an illegal.

illegal.

They can get reimbursed more.

You get this premium tax credit

if you treat an illegal.

And they reduce that saying, no, now you can only get this premium tax credit if the person you're treating is a U.S.

citizen or somebody who's here lawfully.

That's what they're fighting over.

The Democrats want all of those repealed.

And the Republicans are like, no.

In any event, you're not going to hear any of that on mainstream media or on CNN, certainly, though Mike Johnson certainly tried to explain it to her.

Here's J.D.

Vance, by the way, taking a shot on Fox and Friends Friends Today and doing a good job of it.

SOT 7.

They say we're not actually trying to give health care benefits to illegal aliens.

And here's why it's not true.

There are two Biden-era programs that explicitly gave the taxpayer health care money to illegal aliens that we turned off when President Trump took over in January.

Program number one is there's a lot of emergency health care at hospitals that are provided to illegal aliens.

That was funded by the federal government.

We turned off that funding because, of course, we want American citizens to benefit from those hospital services, not to be taxed, and then to have those hospital services go to illegal aliens.

The second of which is the Biden administration gave mass parole to millions upon millions of illegal aliens, and then they simultaneously made those parolees eligible for health care benefits funded by taxpayers.

In the one big beautiful bill, President Trump and congressional Republicans turned off that money to health care funding for illegal aliens.

The Democrats want to turn it back on.

He's so effective, Glenn.

There is no Democrat counterpart to J.D.

Vance right now.

Yeah, I mean, I'm a little at a disadvantage just because I'm not the expert in these healthcare debates and in these legislative details.

But, you know, I think

the Democrats have kind of a conceptual argument, which is that one of the priorities of the Trump administration was to make sure that the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans for corporate America got cut

even further, or at least the tax cuts remained and got extended.

And then at the same time, they're trying to pay for those tax cuts by throwing people off of Medicaid.

And you're absolutely right.

The argument of the Republicans is, no, we just want to make sure that there's no abuse going on with Medicaid.

I think we can all agree that, you know, you leave it to like a bunch of regulators.

Some people who maybe should be on Medicaid or have the right to be on Medicaid are going to get kicked off Medicaid.

So you have a kind of, you could create a conceptual argument that's based on a political ideology.

The problem, and this is the problem for Democrats, like if you have the populist wing of the Democratic Party, because populism has worked for Republicans to come in and say exactly that, that might be an effective understanding for Americans.

The problem is, is that the donor base of the Democratic Party does not allow them to speak in populist terms because the donor base of the Democratic Party wants those Trump tax cuts as much as, you know, the corporations on the Republican side.

And that leaves them with these like bureaucratic squabbles that are very difficult for people to understand and that ultimately do seem like you know they're they're arguing for more benefits for for people who are in the country illegally and that's the problem that democrats have on top of what you said like jd vance you know i think he's an extremely effective political communicator And I also don't see a counterpart, as you said.

I mean, you saw what happened when Tim Waltz tried to go against him.

And that was one of the biggest blowouts of a debate I've ever seen.

The way that J.D.

Vance handled that.

And he only gets better the more, you know, he's still a newly arrived person on the political scene.

And he's only getting better.

And I think that's a big problem for Democrats as well.

You know what JD does that is so effective is he does not run from the danger.

He stays right over the target and he'll speak in very frank terms about it, which is very disconcerting for the other side.

He doesn't telegraph fear at all by bridging away, by giving like a pat answer and then bridging to something more comfortable.

He stays right over the target and completely exploits his own rationale and those of his side for why they're doing what they're doing.

It's very powerful.

It's It's very effective.

It's why people over time do come to see him as a truth teller because he'll take you on no matter what you ask him, even if you think he's vulnerable when you pitch the question.

Here,

here is, oh, okay, yeah.

Here is Chuck Schumer.

This is Making the Rounds.

It was unearthed by an ex-account that goes by Western Lensman.

Very, very good and worth to follow.

This is Chuck Schumer in 1996, okay, about this problem of illegals.

Listen here, SOP 10.

All over where we go, people say, well, why can't you stop

illegal immigrants or others from coming here?

And the number one answer we give our constituents is when they come here, they can get jobs, get benefits against the law because of fraud.

Yes, that's a problem, which now we're attempting to fix, but the Republicans have held steady on it and the Dems have switched their tune.

Okay, on the subject of JD and Gavin Newsom.

So Hakeem Jeffries did not respond with an AI video of his own.

He did not like jokingly show up with a little like one of those, what's it called?

The little barrows.

Yeah, yeah, like

if he showed up like wearing the Mexican garb in an actual sombrero,

we would all have such a fun laugh.

We would actually like him a lot better.

No.

Gavin Newsom drops an AI video.

And instead of taking aim at Trump, he takes aim at JD Vance,

resurrecting a photo from JD, I think, in law school at a costume party or Halloween party.

And here's what he offered in SOT 6.

It's an AI video, J.D.

Vance, in that

case, dancing.

Yes, there's a photo of me and drag from a college party.

And that's normal.

Everyone experiments in college, costumes, makeup, whatever.

Totally normal.

But what I don't understand is why

people are so obsessed with this other thing, couch intimacy.

Like, really?

That's the part you're hung up on?

Out of everything?

That's bizarre to me.

Look, couches are comfortable.

Do you have a couch?

They're dependable.

They support you when you're down.

If you can't appreciate that kind of bond, Maybe you're the one with issues.

I feel so much better just being able to get this off my chest and give you a piece of shit.

Internet bullies, a piece of my mind.

Now, grow up and go get a job.

Go follow no strum of core.

And good night, America.

And then it's got the fake JD Vance twerking.

Your thoughts on that one?

All right.

First of all, I will confess, and maybe this is my own ignorance and I'm confessing something I shouldn't be, but, you know, I obviously pay close attention to politics.

It's my job.

I actually never understood this couch issue with J.D.

Van.

It was made up out of whole cloth that he was like had sex with a couch.

Like completely made up, never real.

And the Democrats decided to run with it when he got named Trump's VP.

Well, but like, it's like, but that's what I'm saying.

It's like, even if it were made up, but still effective as a political tool, I could at least respect it for it.

But I don't even under

like this, I've never heard anybody talking about people who enjoy intimate sexual intimacy with the couch before.

So it's like, I know, it just comes from nowhere.

It's not, it doesn't fall.

It was literally made up by a random internet account who nobody ever heard of saying, oh, he, he wrote all about it in his book.

Also a lie.

And now, like, now Gavin Newsom thinks that people have a working knowledge of this and that it's real and that he can use it to make fun of JD.

Right.

And I guess that's what I'm saying.

Like, if I don't have a working knowledge of it for as much time as I spend online, for as much time as I spend paying attention to political discourse, as much time as I spend working on it because it's my job, how many people beyond like the hardest core of the hardcore like resistance liberal base even understands this reference?

It's also very draggy.

It's like very slow.

There's also this weird thing of like simultaneously trying to insist that, you know, being trans and experimenting with gender ideology is this wonderful, liberating thing.

But then on the other hand, like mocking JD Vance for having done it, you know, it's just all so muddled.

And this is what I think they need to find a way.

There are like Democrats, there are liberals and people on the left who are real people, who actually speak in a real way, who understand things, who have a set of opinions that they're not afraid to express.

Those aren't the people who rise within Democratic Party ranks, though.

And they're stuck with these like very state establishment figures trying to be something that they're not.

And it's cringy to watch.

Like the AI sucked too, like the ones making J.D.

Vance say the things he didn't say.

It sucked.

It's something I could have put together, which definitely tells you it's bad.

All right, before we leave the subject, I have got to show you the best piece of the story.

I can't believe it's taken me this long.

So last night, Deb, what channel was it that ran that?

Was it NBC?

Okay, it's GMA on ABC.

Good morning, America.

This morning tried to cover.

Look at this.

They covered the Trump AI video.

For the listening audience on screen left, it's a screen grab of the, you know, Chuck Schumer standing next to Hakeem Jeffries wearing the sombrero and the fake Mexican

mustache.

And then on the right, they're interviewing Speaker Johnson.

So that's why the screen grab shows him.

But over the Schumer Hakeem Jeffries sombrero

shot,

they've added the words

AI generated image.

Because

this is what they think of their audience, Glenn.

They need to be told that Hakeem Jeffries did not grow a huge Mexican mustache overnight and show up in a sombrero next to Chuck School.

Well, also, you know what, Megan, part of this whole like self-seriousness that's so pathetic is I saw a few MSNBC clips and they were, of course, they wanted to talk about the outrageous racism involved in this video, but they kept making a point of saying, Look, we are a news organization.

We will not show you this video.

This video is fake.

Since we're a news organization, we cannot show you fake and fabricate.

It's like, yes, you can.

If like a politician is saying something you think is false, you can absolutely show the footage of the politician saying that it's false and then debunk it.

But they were like, you know, remember when they used to

show Trump speeches and then Rachel Maddow would cut in and she, okay, enough, enough.

We're a news organization.

We refuse to.

And it's like, you think because you're MSNBC and you're going to cut off Trump's speech or a comp, you know, it's just, it's like this self-seriousness that nobody care.

It's it, it, it is like, it's very school marmee behavior.

And the more Trump matches it, the more they fall into it.

it's a AI generated image oh oh good to know I didn't realize he didn't grow that mustache overnight

and decide to show up dressed as like a Mexican like cha-cha dancer or something at the White House thank you for letting me know that that's not what happened you're right though I saw all the like the oh we're not we're not going to show that video we're not showing that video no no we're a news organization we're very serious we're very serious we're a news organization the same people who like spent years telling them that like there was a pee-pee tape of donald trump that Vladimir Putin was using the block.

No, we're too much of a serious news organization.

No, we would never.

And by the way,

they were the ones who claimed they thought all those Biden stumbling videos were fake, that they were deep fakes, but they showed those.

Well, I don't understand the double standard.

I guess if it's racist and fake, you can't show it.

But if it's just fake, you can.

I'm not sure how their rules work, but I love that ABC one.

On the subject of fake news.

I wanted to get to this at some point today.

Might as well do it today.

Did you see the thing yesterday that went round the internet in about two seconds that I am going to CBS News?

Did you happen to see this, Glenn?

Megan,

if you want to set it up, go ahead, but I have a very specific comment to make about this because it really amazed me since I was on your show two weeks ago and we talked about exactly this.

Go ahead and set that up if you want to see.

So you did see it.

I did see it.

I get off the air yesterday and

I see.

Oh, my team sent it to me saying this is on MediaIte, which is a website that covers media

right now.

And it was like the headline is Megan Kelly's seen at CBS News that I might be going to CBS News.

And it's got my old pal Bernie Goldberg, who I love and who is great and worked at CBS, but with bad info,

talking to another guy named John Daly, who I also know a little.

And they're breaking the news that Newsflash, I was seen at CBS for a, quote, screen test, and that I'm going to CBS News as part of like their attempt to become more fair and balanced over there now that they're under new ownership.

And by the way, this hit without me even having been asked about it.

Like I got off the air and there it was like, what's this?

You know, typical journalistic practice would require that you call the target of your reporting to say, is this true?

So then I find out later, the guy who wrote it up for MediaIte sent a note to my producer while we were live on the air saying, is this true?

And when he didn't receive a response back within an hour, posted it.

That's not responsible journalism.

Sorry, that does not cover you.

As if there's something, the only way that covers you, and all journalists know this, is if there's some rush to get it to air.

It's like you've got to get this report on right away.

Time urgency.

Yeah, nothing obviously.

That's when you get a pass.

So, no, there was no urgency on Megan Kelly's going to CBS.

Literally, not one word of it is fake.

I mean, is real.

Literally, not one word of it is real.

Not one word.

Not going to CBS, didn't go to CBS, didn't have a screen test to CBS.

I'm not talking to CBS, don't want to go to CBS, would never leave this job for CBS, have zero desire to go back to CBS or any mainstream television, broadcast, or cable network.

Believe me, if I did, I would have gone.

I've had plenty of offers.

The absurdity of this, it went all the way so fast.

And I do wonder why people were so excited to publish this

after it was just a speculative report by Bernie, who has since retracted it, apologized, and offered now an addendum on his own podcast saying he was wrong.

Yeah, and it was also like, it was so detailed too.

It was like that you had gone and done a screen test as though like CBS would need you to like, let's see what Megan Kelly looks like in front of a camera.

Nobody knows.

Like let's try and test how she might seem.

But the thing personally that made me so amazed by it was that I was on your show, I don't know, two, three weeks ago.

And one of the topics we discussed was Barry Weiss and the reports that she might go to CBS News or seems on her way to CBS News to assume some kind of editorial position.

And you asked me about it, and I had my own views relating to the Ellison family and why they were buying up these properties.

But your view on it, which you and I ended up discussing and agreeing on, was like, why would you be an independent media, which is the place where everything is growing, everything is vibrant, it's the future of media, you're your own boss, you can do everything you want, you operate without constraints.

Why would you give that up, especially if you have a large audience, you're having a successful independent media outfit, and go and submit to all the suffocating constraints that come from working within a gigantic media conglomerate, only one unit of which is the media.

And you were basically saying that as a friend of Barry's, you don't understand why she's doing it.

You personally would never do it.

So the fact that I just listened to you three weeks ago in a very passionate way say, you think it's crazy to give up a successful career in independent media where all the impact is, where all the growth is to go and work for a dying corporate news outlet to then, you know, open my computer and see Megan Kelly is doing a screen set uh

a screen test at cbs news because she wants to go there you know i just instantly knew it was false because you just told me three weeks ago how crazy you thought it was um why would i say that really quickly

right right but you said it because i i know that's what you think i know that's what you think because that's how i feel too i would in a zillion years never return ever to anything like corporate media especially given that it's so obviously dying um yes but you know i i just want to quickly say like i have you know a lot of people distrust the media for good reasons.

A lot of people understand that the media often spreads false, false claims.

But I remember like the first time I was really at the center of a major international media story was when I did the Snowden reporting.

And that's when, you know, it's one thing to like read in the newspaper things that you think are false.

But so often I would read things in, you know, the most established, prestigious journals about things I did, things I said, things that happened in the middle that I was involved in.

And they were said in the most authoritative tone.

And I knew firsthand they were false.

And it was like constant, one after the next.

And there's nothing like having the media say false things about you that makes you realize like the true depth and pervasiveness of how often they just fabricate and mislead and deceive.

Yes, completely.

And I think that the reason that they ran with it and it went viral so quickly is because this organization, Mediite, and others like it, want it to be true.

They want some sort of affirmation from people in our lane that this is the wrong lane, that these other more traditional media entities are the right lane and the better lane.

And my like returning to broadcast news would be an acknowledgement that this was just like the ugly red-headed stepchild over here, as opposed to the prom queen, which is allegedly CBS news, when it's exactly the opposite.

Yeah, like we're all just waiting for the day that we can get back into corporate media and we're all pretending not to like corporate media, but the reality is we're just praying and hoping for the day day when like god we can go work imagine just going like entering the cbs corporate building and knowing that you have all these editorial bosses in comparison to what you're doing now and it would be one thing if like we were reaching small numbers of people but the the way you reach the largest numbers of people now is by doing independent media it's not like that world you you endure the constraints of it because you get to have this major impact Again, ask anybody under 50 years old when the last time is that they watch CBS news and they'll barely know what you're talking about.

For my kids, TV doesn't even exist.

You know, know, my kids don't even know what TV is.

I said this in a quote, the Daily Mail called me, and I was like,

who has more influence?

Anderson Cooper or Joe Rogan?

I mean, like, that's really all you have to ask yourself.

And you don't have to go as big as Joe Rogan.

He's the biggest of them all.

Like, truly, let's keep it apples to apples.

Who has more influence and relevance?

Aaron Burnett or yours truly?

I mean, it's like, don't be ridiculous, right?

I'm sorry, with all due respect to her, it's not.

And so it's just these sort of dinosaurs who are in that industry and cover that industry who still think that, you know, it's the sun and we all revolve around it and think that we're in just this lane that's just sort of odd or fringy.

And that's great because those people are still going to be left behind while we're, you know, far ahead actually making news and changing lives, like changing the whole presidential cycle.

In any event, it's very fun to think about.

And I'm here to tell you, there is zero chance I'm going to CBS News.

And even Abby was like, did you go to a building near CBS?

Why are they writing that?

I'm like, I literally just went in a Sirius XM.

That's totally understandable.

Anybody who saw me going into there would know why I was going in there.

But you know how these things are.

What is it?

The lie makes its way around the world before the truth even gets his pants on.

Fact.

We'll be right back.

Glenn's with us for the whole show.

Don't go away.

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We absolutely have to keep talking.

It's more important now than ever.

To cower, to hide, to go silent is not the answer.

And all I can tell you is there is no fucking way I am canceling One Stop on this tour.

Not one stop.

I'm going.

I'm going to stand on these stages and I'm going to say all the things that we say all the time on this show.

We're going to make it safe for me.

We're going to make it safe for my team and my guests and you.

We're going coast to coast and do something really important, which is say what's true and what's real to honor him.

I really now more than ever would love to see you all face to face.

God, I would love to see you face to face.

I need to see you face to face.

I am doing this tour, and I would love for you to join me.

MeganKelly.com for the tickets.

Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show.

Back with me now, Glenn Greenwald, who will be joining me for our first ever in-person interview.

That's so crazy on the Megan Kelly Live Tour.

We're going on tour and we're going to go meet all of you face to face.

I would love to see you.

We're going to try to create an opportunity for QA where we can interact directly.

If you want to buy a behind-the-scenes VIP meet and greet with me and Glenn and Emily Jashinsky, who will be there too, you can do that.

Just go to MeganKelly.com.

We're all getting together down in San Antonio.

Yes, I can't wait to get down to San Antonio, Texas.

Again, it's going to be Glenn, EJ, Emily Jashinsky, and yours truly on October 24th.

That's just three weeks away.

We're kicking things off in Texas.

That's our first weekend of the tour.

So please, please come out and see us.

For so many reasons, I feel like it's kind of important that we all do this.

So go to megankelly.com to buy your tickets.

All 10 of our dates are there.

Find out more info.

And already some of them are selling out.

So don't wait too long.

I'd love for the audience of this show to be up front and first on the ticket sales.

Find all the info at megankelly.com.

Okay, Glenn, let's get back to it.

So there's a lot, there's a lot still.

I guess I'll start with Joy Reed, who's out there saying Joy Reed type crazy stuff, but it's becoming like a theme amongst lunatics on the left.

She's saying it.

Don Lemon said something similar the other day.

Maybe we'll start with him and then we'll play what Joy Reed just said.

But they need a serious reality check.

Here he is.

so my question

this morning is white men

are you okay

are you okay you're sending troops

national guard to cities

you keep talking about oh my gosh chicago and black on black crime because this country keeps waking up to

bodies in the pews

blood on the floor every single time the The face behind the trigger looks nearly the same.

These shooters, again and again and again and again,

look

just

like their base.

We hear about anything but the culture of grievance and violence that the right has been feeding for decades.

Something is cracked deep inside when so many of you believe the answer to fear to loss to change is violence

are you listening to me i hope i'm saying it loud enough for the people in the back

okay

so it's white men who he says are the problem in america that'll be news to his husband who happens to be a white man um and don lemon thinks that the white community needs to look at itself because we're producing the killers we're a violent community

Just FYI, the National Institute of Justice in 2022 did an analysis of the latest 172 mass shootings, showed that they were 52% white,

20.9% black, 8.1% Latino, and 6.4% Asian.

Okay, so whites made up the majority.

52% and blacks had 20% of the mass shootings, even though they're only 6% of the population, black men.

On top of that, Don Lemon conveniently excludes from his analysis what we're seeing when it comes to gang violence.

And by the way, so do all of the stats.

No stat that puts together who's committing the violence in America counts gang violence.

And I say this almost eerily, Glenn, because it's a point.

that Charlie Kirk had literally just made before they shot him.

That was a point point he was raising about who's committing the mass shootings.

That we don't have all the accurate data because they exclude gang violence.

And moments later, his life was taken.

It's not just Don Lemon.

Here's Joy Reed

on a show called BET Talks.

It's 30 minutes long.

The entire thing has music under it, which is a very strange thing.

Nothing telegraphs this is not a news show more than putting music under all 30 minutes of your interview.

Here's that in SOT 25.

Somebody says black on black crime, we need to correct them, especially if we're in media.

Yeah, no, that's just called crime.

Yeah, if a person commits a crime, it's just crime.

Because when a white person hurts another white person, well, then that's white on white crime.

And maybe we need to start pointing it out.

There's a pathology that's happening in this country that is not happening among black folks.

This is a crisis in their community, but you don't see black commentators saying, We need you all to sit down and start to look at your culture.

You need to think about what's happening in your culture.

But when you have a crime that a black person commits, we get lectured as to whether we need to look at hip-hop.

We need to think about whether our children are being raised poorly by single moms.

We need to ask that same question of them.

They're the majority.

They commit the majority of crimes.

They commit the majority of mass shootings, rapes, and sexual assaults, and assaults against children.

We should start asking the same question in reverse.

Okay, so none of that was true.

Whites do not commit the majority of crime as a population, as a percentage of crime.

She's going by sheer numbers because whites are still the majority in America, but blacks commit over 60% of the violent crime in America, despite the fact that they're only 13% of the population.

And by the way, it's not really black women who are doing it.

It's mostly black men who are cut that in half, 6.5% of the population, commit over 60% of the violent crime in America.

That's what's true.

There are all sorts of reasons for it that the left won't be honest about.

But yeah, fatherless homes is a big piece of it, and gang violence is a big piece of it.

91% of black homicide victims, 91% were killed by other blacks.

That's the truth.

The vast, vast majority of black homicide victims are killed by other black people.

Heather McDonald, who's like an encyclopedia when it comes to stats on this, points out that juvenile, black juveniles are now shot at 100 times the rate of white juveniles.

Blacks between the ages of 10 and 24 die of gun homicide at nearly 25 times the rate of whites at that age.

Shooters are overwhelmingly not the police and not whites, but other blacks.

In 2021, she goes on, 87% of all non-lethal interracial violent crimes were black on white.

87%.

480,000 in change incidents with a black offender and a white victim, 69,000 in change incidents with a white offender and a black victim, or seven times as many black on white as white on black.

She says, in other words, whites have more to fear from blacks than blacks do from whites, a fact contrary to the race hustle narrative.

There is no

deep problem within the white community that we need to examine because of the massive numbers of whites killing other whites.

Just like all of this is a rewriting of facts because they think it's part of like, I don't know, a DEI initiative to try to change the narrative.

Everybody living in America understands that black people are not inherently violent, that violence in America is not the fault of black people.

But if you're going to make an issue out of race when it comes to crime, then we are going to have to talk about the stats and they don't reflect well on, in particular, black men.

You know, there's so much going on there, Megan.

And just by the way, you know, Joy Reed said,

None of us ever try and tell them that they're the ones who have the race problem.

And just like 10 seconds earlier, we listened to Don Lemon saying, hey, white men, you're the ones with the problem of violence.

You're the ones who are going around killing everybody.

And I like, I know

you kind of briefly mentioned the fact that Don Lemon is married to a white man, but I just want to focus it on that for a second because

like I've, you know, I was long associated with the left for the first like decade or a little more of

my journalism, not entirely, but primarily.

And one of the things that began to alienate me most was this constant need to talk about people based on which group they belong to and what that that means about in terms of their group membership and what rights and what prerogatives and what things you're allowed to say about some groups and not allowed to say about others.

And this constant like divvying of people up and trying to divide them constantly and pit them against one another instead of treating people as individuals.

And like part of the reason why it bothered me so much is because I have an interracial family.

Like, I don't want to have to think about the world in terms of like, oh, white people over here and black people over here.

Like, this is the thing I thought that we were trying to fight against and trying to overcome.

And then suddenly like the left starts embracing everything through this identity lens where now everything is a fight between groups like no you're more violent you're more violent you're more violent and i have to say like i can't help but notice that a lot of times like the people who are the worst race hustlers like the ones who are constantly trying to be most incendiary with racial discourse are people like Don Lamont who's married to a white person or people like Nicole Hannah-Jones or like Wesley Lowry who are, you know, with have a white parent who aren't like, who aren't 100% black.

A lot of it is like an identity crisis.

And so they're constantly trying to overcompensate by saying i'm a black person our problems are white people and as you say like everybody who lives in the american experience understands and of course there are large sectors of the united states that are predominantly black where there is a massive crime problem and a lot of these white liberals who want to deny that would never go walking in those neighborhoods at night precisely because they understand the truth even if they want to deny it now what did that mean maybe there's a socioeconomic element which i think is true that predominates and a lot of black neighborhoods are economically deprived and therefore more criminal whatever I think what's so toxic about left-wing discourse, as we've just heard, is that overwhelmingly, they're the ones for whatever reason, like there's different reasons, psychological benefits, political benefits.

I think a lot of it is just like anger and rage and resentment who are constantly trying to insist that we shouldn't be judged as individuals, that not only are we understandable and defined by our group membership, but our rights and privileges and obligations are also determined by whatever group we belong to.

And it goes across the line until you're finally like dividing everybody along these like micro levels.

And nothing is injecting more division in our country than that kind of discourse.

It makes me sick.

And I think if you look at who does it, it's often very revealing in terms of what their lives are or who they are about why it is that they're doing it.

It's

really disturbing too, because if you're going to play that game and you really want to get down to the identities of those who commit these shootings, I look forward to his trans analysis.

I look forward to him taking a hard look at the number of shootings, mass shootings we've had over the past, let's just do the last two years, who had some sort of trans association, right?

I mean, it's his side, the leftist FBI under Joe Biden who tried to hide that stuff from us, like what was going on with the shooter in Nashville, Tennessee at that school.

And, you know, he wants to talk about like, they look like MAGA.

Oh, really?

Did the Ascension school shooter look like MAGA?

It was a trans person who saw a demon when they looked into the mirror.

That was obviously a deranged lunatic who had fallen unfortunately into this bizarre ideology of the trans community and was actually living to regret it, according to his journals.

But, like, there's not going to be an honest analysis.

This is somebody who's just interested in dividing us by race, as you said.

You know, reminding me, I'm preparing this memo that I'm going to deliver on the air.

I'm taking a hard look at the criticisms of Charlie, which I know to be untrue, and I'm basically just finding the evidence for what he was saying, and it's all there.

But one of the things that jumped out at me, I love Shelby Steele.

He's like a truly brilliant guy who is really honest about how we got here to this identity politics place where some people do what you just said.

And he's really honest about the civil rights era and how what

his criticism of it is that it elevated blacks based on race.

It like singled them out and gave them sort of victimhood status, this sort of recognized victimhood status based on race as opposed to recognizing them based on humanity.

That's what he said.

And it was the beginning as he as he sees it of dividing dividing each other that way

by race and so on.

And that we've never recovered from it.

We leaned into these identity politics and never recovered.

Yeah, I mean, look, there's no denying the fact that if you look at history, I mean, of course, there were times when black people were actually oppressed.

Like that was true victimhood.

I mean, there's no denying that.

There was no denying the fact that women at one point didn't have the right to vote, et cetera, et cetera.

Within my lifetime, you know, just like as a person who grew up gay, like my life has radically changed from something that like, you know, homosexuality was something that could never be mentioned.

It was considered, you know, like such a an evil sin that was implanted into the minds of every gay kid in a way that was damaging through the fact that now we have complete and total equality for

gay people up into and including same-sex marriage.

And so then the question becomes, like, once you overcome these problems, do you want to stew in them forever?

Do you want to insist that the trajectory of your life is one that's shaped and defined by your victimhood?

Or do you want to insist that, okay, now that we've made this progress, now I'm emancipated from that.

I don't need to think about that any longer.

I don't need to, you know, focus on that any longer.

That's no longer the part of the story of my life.

And ultimately, I think so much about who we are as individuals is based upon whether we live in the present.

and whether we want to be emboldened as opposed to living in the past and whether we want this victimhood label on our forehead forever, mostly to justify our own failures or to justify our bad behaviors or our anger and race and hatred and resentments.

And, you know, just the fact that Don Lemon has to talk about the Trump movement as being white men, when there's huge numbers of white men who are like the hardest core, most radical leftists in Antifa and other places.

And obviously, there are huge numbers of non-white people who are in the Trump movement, very prominent in the Trump movement, who actually support Trump's deployment of troops into American cities.

I'm not one of the people who support that, but there, you know,

to still talk about it that way,

it's such a deceitful and distortive lens to pretend that the Trump movement is all white men and all white men are Trump supporters that you just know there's other more nefarious things going on there.

Well, it reminds me of, you know,

a young man asked me a question about

who commits the vast majority of these mass shootings at the turning point event that I did at Virginia Tech last week.

And he tried to say that it's,

oh, God, I'm trying to remember exactly what he said, but he said basically 70%

were

right-wingers.

And all the stats have disproven that.

You know, I mean, this is left-wing propaganda.

There was just a piece out in the Atlantic like that day talking about how recently it's been overwhelmingly left-wing violence.

And actually, we took a deep dive.

There was a study by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and even they concluded that it's left-wing violence.

But, you know, getting there, they excluded, even

resulting in that conclusion, they excluded the attacks on Tesla, the Josh Shapiro firebombing.

People just categorize that as right-wing violence because he's a Democrat.

But the guy who firebombed his house was not a right-winger.

He was shouting free Palestine.

That's not really a right-wing thing.

And the Israel attacks, like the murder of those two young people coming out of the Israeli embassy.

That wasn't a right-winger.

That's once again a free Palestine.

That is political violence of a different kind.

It's anti-Semitic violence, but I mean, it's, how is that right-wing?

So that gets excluded from these stats.

And then people walk away, I guess, feeling better about themselves.

And the right-wing examples in this study include, for example, Melissa Hortman, the Speaker of the House in Minnesota, who again, the shooter there said that he killed her because Tim Waltz told him to.

The guy was obviously a psycho.

And I do think there is a problem in any of these numbers of including the psychos.

You know, I mean, I,

even if that guy who killed Melissa Hortman had been saying he was told by Donald Trump to kill Melissa Hortman, I don't think we should count him.

And I don't think we should count this as left-wing violence because he says Tim Waltz told him to count.

Like, that's a crazy lunatic.

That's what we're dealing with there.

That's different from the Charlie Kirk assassination.

That is different from the Donald Trump assassination, as far as we know, though we know precious little about that shooter, where it is a purely political assassination.

The Luigi Mangioni case, where he killed Brian Thompson, you know, the head of United Healthcare.

That's a political assassination.

That's not lunacy any more than any murder is lunacy.

And I do think

it is important to draw that distinction, to pull out, as I said to that kid that night, the crazies and then get really honest about what's left-wing and right-wing.

Yeah, I mean, I do think that mental illness plays a more significant role than we genuinely attribute to the motives of shooters.

There are definitely shooters who are perfectly calculated who I think Luigi Gi Mangioni is one.

Whether that he's left-wing, you know, in terms of his politics, I think that can be debated.

And we have had right-wing massacres, you know, like the guy who goes into the supermarket in Buffalo and guns down black people because he thinks that no non-white citizens are real citizens and is, you know, against the great replacement theory or Dylan Roof and the guy who goes to the El Paso

Walmart and kills a bunch of Latino people in an anti-immigration under an immigration banner.

We've had like

people who cite Islamic motives for killing.

A lot of them turn out to be mentally ill.

do think that political factions in general can often produce violence.

At various points in time, some are more likely to produce violence, probably when they're out of power.

I just, if I could, though, Megan, I just want to say like, when I first encountered this whole debate, it was in the 1990s.

There was this spate of murders of abortion doctors.

And Bill O'Reilly was on the air all the time saying abortion is murder.

And some of the abortion doctors that got, that got murdered were ones that he had specifically profiled multiple times and there was this like

to blame bill o'reilly yeah and there were a couple others like but george tiller being the primary one and i was always like You can't hold people responsible because somebody goes out and murders in the name of the cause or the beliefs that person is peacefully espousing.

Otherwise, we're all vulnerable to that possibility.

I remember they tried to blame the Buffalo massacre on Tucker Carlson saying Tucker is an advocate of the rate replacement theory.

That guy, you know, cited the rate replacement theory, even though they were completely different theories.

The guy never even mentioned Tucker.

No one even knew if he knew who Tucker was.

But I'm a little bit wary of this attempt to blame people who advocate ideas peacefully, even if they're radical ideas, for the acts of, you know, either psychopaths or crazy people who go out and murder in the name of that cause because we're all vulnerable to that.

On the other hand, I do think certain political factions can start to embrace political violence in a way that is dangerous.

And it is important to pay attention to that as well.

I just think these conversations are difficult because I think there's mostly an un-element of mental illness in somebody who can go in, put a bullet in the neck of a 31-year-old man while he's holding a microphone and speaking, even if there's a political motive to it as well.

I think I agree with 90% of what you just said.

I generally agree with everything you just said, but I think things have changed, Glenn.

I just think, you know, there is a growing acceptance among some certain faction of the left wing to political violence, and you see that in the polling.

You know, it was 34%

of liberals, like leftists, think that it's okay to use political violence

to hurt somebody who you disagree with.

On college campuses, they did a survey and like the numbers were overwhelming that the vast majority think it's okay to

shout down somebody who has opposing political views on your campus so that they cannot be heard, to use a megaphone over them so that they can't hurt, to actually physically block that person's supporters from showing up on campus.

And then still a minority, but over one-third, believed that political violence was acceptable in some circumstances.

So it's like, I think it's growing, this acceptance, and the way that people cheered Luigi and the way that people cheered the Charlie Kirk killer, there's like a growing inhumanity.

And I don't know what's causing it, to be honest with you.

I really don't, but I'm very concerned about it.

And so I do think it's no accident that

we hear messaging non-stop that ICE is fascist.

And then you see that on bullet casings in an ICE shooting, a shooting at ICE officers, and that Charlie was a fascist and that he was anti-trans.

And then you see that on the bullets that were, the bullet casings that were used to kill him in that murder.

I just think it would be dangerous to disavow that connection.

There is a connection between this messaging, which is ubiquitous about certain targets, and then those people winding up on the wrong end of a bullet.

You're absolutely right that in left-wing culture, there emerged more strongly than ever over the last decade this idea that the solution to people with whom you disagree is to prevent them from being heard one way or the other.

Remember, that was when Ben Spier would go on campus from Aguinopoulos and those controversies, like, don't let them speak.

That was the instinct.

And by the way, I know that you're being targeted a lot with that as well.

It's like, hey, if there are these people with different views, don't put them on your show.

Don't let them speak, even though I realize it's different.

But among the left, there has been this kind of like sense, although I think it's growing on the right too, that like people who disagree with you aren't just people who disagree with you.

They're bad, evil people with bad, evil ideas.

And whatever you have to do, and increasingly that means violence to silence them is something that is justified or even obligatory to do.

The only concern I have is that we all use strong political rhetoric.

You know, you call somebody a communist, you call somebody a tyrant, you call somebody deeply corrupt.

You're somebody who has been very outspoken about the dangers and threats of, you know, men pretending to be women and the threat they pose to women in various spaces.

And so if somebody, you know, a listener of the Megan Kelly show went out and murdered, you know, a trans person and said, Look, I've been listening to Megan Kelly tell me that this, these people are dangerous.

So, I wanted to stop them by putting a bullet in their head before they could endanger women.

I don't think you should be personally responsible for that.

And that's the only

note of caution I'm trying to sound here is that we all use incendiary political rhetoric.

Sometimes it's important, but there's a huge gap between that and telling people to go use violence in the name of the rhetoric that we're we're spouting?

Very few people are doing that, telling people to go use violence, right?

Like some may bless it, some may think, but I do think like the celebration of it is in fact telling somebody to do more of it.

Like that is a permission slip because more and more of these people think they're going to be greeted as a hero if they take out this political target.

And they're not wrong in some cases.

Like we did see a fair amount of that after my poor friend Charlie was murdered.

I mean it's just that it was one of the most disturbing pieces of it.

I can't say it was the most disturbing, but it was definitely right up there.

And for me, I just like, I feel like we have to wrestle with the reality of 2025 America, where these messages do seem to be getting in the heads of these killers.

And look, while sometimes I have fiery rants on this show about this topic or that, I think overall, my rhetoric towards, for example, the trans community is usually careful about their activists versus them.

I've gotten angrier in recent years, though, as they've been so aggressive in invading women's spaces and so threatening to women who stand up to them.

I mean, just so threatening.

And then more data's come out about how the overwhelming majority within the trans community, men who claim they're women, are autogynophiles who are actually in the midst of a sexual fetish.

And that's deeply disturbing to me.

I can't participate in that.

I don't want my daughter participating in that.

All those things need to be outed.

But I see or I totally agree with your point.

Like, I certainly wouldn't take responsibility for anybody committing an act of violence.

And can you really take somebody's random fascist chant and say that's what caused the murder of Charlie, or that's what, or ICE is behaving like fascists and say that's what caused, you know, ICE agents to get shot at?

No, but when the message is ubiquitous the way it has been on the left toward these targets, I think you're a lot closer.

And I think there's like a real cause to look at them while Charlie's dead and in the ground instead of home with his children and wife, to look at them to say,

tone it down.

Stop.

Because in his case, too, it was overwhelmingly uniform criticism by an entire group of him over and over and over again.

And I know that because I lived it.

And then I saw them do it to him posthumously.

They're still at it, fighting in an effort to control his legacy.

And it's really, really important to leftists like Nicole Hannah Jones and Tanahasi Coates to make sure we know Charlie was a racist bigot.

Yeah, look, I mean, watching how many people celebrated Charlie Kirk's death was horrific on the one hand, but I have to say, totally unsurprising to me on the other.

I've seen this sentiment growing in so many different ways.

And I guess I would agree at the end of the day that it does seem to be more common on the left.

I think, in part, again, that's because the left feels like they have no power, and often people resort to violence when they don't.

But I also just want to throw one more thing in here, which I think is important that I do actually think social media has contributed to this a lot.

I do too.

Because

it's so like, you know, right now you and I are communicating like human beings, even though we're communicating, you know, through the medium of

a screen.

But, you know, half of our lives, yours and mine, were lived without the internet.

If you grew up and all you have is the internet and you spend most of your time on the internet and your bit most of your communication, your relationship with other human beings is through the internet, it's so easy to just see them as as these like digitalized targets, these digitalized screenshots.

And if you're feeding on this like rhetoric of hatred and demonization all day long, I can easily see how the sanctity of human life starts to become very corroded.

And the idea that human life is actually something that deserves to be valorized and protected and preserved can start to become very weakened as well.

And I also think that is a part of it.

I'm not trying to get away from the more political explanation.

I just think that this is is one of the multiple ways that we have to grapple with the fact that, you know, each new generation is spending more and more of their time interacting with the world and other human beings through digital experiences rather than the connectivity with human beings that we were built to have over thousands of years.

There's like a withdrawal from real life where your world gets smaller and smaller and smaller, and then actual humans get dehumanized through the process that you're discussing.

And on top of that, I don't know, you know, like Alex Berenson's been raising this.

I don't think he's totally wrong.

Like, pot

has played a role in a couple of these latest shootings.

You know, the pot today is not your grandfather's pot, your granddaddy, or your daddy's pot.

Like, that there can be an influence of drugs that can be a little mind-melding.

The video games are extremely violent, though they don't cause people to kill.

There's millions of kids playing video games right now who will never consider violence.

But I just think there can be a toxic mix in the case of some individuals who are unsteady to begin with with that gets them from law-abiding to they're facing the death penalty because they pulled the trigger in a horrific way.

And I'm not exactly sure what to do to stop it.

We can't get rid of social media.

We're not going to get rid of violent video games.

We're not going to get rid of pot.

You know, this kid maybe came from a loving family, this young man who killed Charlie.

I don't know.

Social media images can be misleading.

People say, oh no, they seem like loving parents because we see pictures of them camping and the mom has nice posts about her son.

We We don't know anything.

We have no idea.

I mean, look at what Gabby Betitos posts about her relationship with Brian Landry.

You would have thought that they had, you know, an incredibly beautiful, loving romance.

He strangled her to death within weeks of those.

So we just, we don't know anything.

Yeah, I mean, I do think this is a deeply rooted cultural problem.

You know, if you look throughout thousands of years of history, the way we've had like, you know, we're social animals.

We need that like physical, one-on-one connection with other human beings.

We need to gather in places physically.

You know, there used to be churches and union halls and all sorts of ways, you know, in villages and small communities.

We've lost all of that.

We're increasingly isolated.

COVID made it so much worse.

And then you take away like any kind of spirituality to people and put them solely in the material world in like this environment of nihilism where they don't believe in anything.

They're not connected to anything.

They see no future for themselves.

I don't think it's surprising that this is producing mass sickness.

And, you know, all the data in Western democracies show depression and anxiety and addiction and suicide and suicidal ideation.

Like all these are at very alarming and increasing rates.

And I think it comes from this like spiritual malady that precisely because it is so complex, it is very difficult to figure out how to resolve.

But I also think it's important not to bracket that out because I think in a lot of ways, it's at the root of so much.

And what you're talking about, about like not seeing these people as real and talking about the fact that we mentioned because you and I are going to see each other on the tour for the first time in person, which is crazy that we haven't done an interview in person.

I mean, we've been talking to each other for years.

And there was, you know, how like sometimes just the one comment you see online bothers you?

And it can be like a total minority comment.

But, and normally I don't pay any mind to these, but this one did bother me.

Somebody was like, how can you say you're a good friend of Charlie's when you also openly admitted when I was on with Tucker the other week that I never had dinner with Charlie?

Like I didn't go out to lunch with Charlie.

And

I would love to speak to that.

Like you and I have never seen each other in person.

I consider you a dear friend.

I have actual friends in my life who I see socially who I have not explored so many issues with the way you and I talk, whose views on the world and life and love and culture and politics and all of it, I have no idea about in the way I know yours.

And like actual friendships can be born in doing what we are doing right here at like really meaningful relationships.

God forbid anything were ever to happen to you, I'd be totally fucking devastated.

And like, I don't understand why people don't get that.

You know, I did see Charlie in person many times and we talked behind the scenes and we did get to know each other very, very well on camera and off, but I never had social time with him in that way, like over a meal.

And I think in part because Charlie didn't make any bones about the fact that he kind of had the

whose rule was that?

It was Mike Pence, the Mike Pence rule of not spending one-on-one time alone with a woman not named Erica Kirk, which is not a bad policy, by the way.

It's not a bad policy.

But in any event, I don't know.

I've been thinking a lot about it, about the people who come on the show regularly, who I really love, who I am going to see for the first time on this tour.

It's meaningful, Glenn, in a way that I can't quite describe, but it is.

You know, totally.

And like I have to say, Megan,

I couldn't agree with that more.

I feel exactly the same way.

And I will say, like,

you know, I know you get criticism for having me on or for having Tucker on or for having whoever on Obviously, you know, people say to me like, oh, you claim that you think what's going on in Gaza is genocide.

And you're constantly talking to Megan Kelly and complimenting her.

And she's supportive of Israel, which is ironic that you're getting accused for not when you are actually an Israel supporter.

And I, you know, what, one of the things that, and I see this.

in terms of Charlie too, like I didn't know Charlie well, but like he was always extremely generous with me, like very complimentary, just like very friendly, even though we were worlds apart in so many obvious ways.

And one of the things I think can happen too, like in terms of online

presentation, is that you can, it's so easy to pick the worst of people or the parts that make them seem the worst and put it together and make it seem like these are horrible people.

Like if you're in public life enough, anyone can make you look like a horrible person based on things you've said that are real, that you regret, making things that you said totally out of context.

And so when people say to me, like, how can you talk to Megan Kelly?

She supports these things you think are horrible.

Like, my, my answer is, it's because I know Megan Kelly.

Like, I think she's a a very good person, even though we have very strong disagreements that, you know, that we're able to go on and debate often vehemently, and it doesn't affect our relationship with one another.

And I think that that is what so much of what we're missing.

That's so much of what we're missing is the idea of humanity, you know, like just the fact that other than like psychopaths and sociopaths and people who are totally like ill and alienated, most of us have a common humanity that we want the same things, we have the same values, we crave the same things.

And if you focus on that common humanity as opposed to the minute somebody has a difference of opinion that I do on an important political issue, I consider them my enemy.

I just think that makes the world like a much better place, not only like socially, but for each individual.

as well.

And yeah, I do think it comes from exploring values, you know, like you get to know somebody from having these conversations long enough.

And those are really important ways that you can bridge the gap between why somebody thinks this and why you think that.

And that's part of what I saw in Charlie too.

The Charlie that I knew personally was so gravely different than the Charlie that they're attempting to depict

that it really makes you understand how easy it is to lose sight of people's core humanity.

And it's often done on purpose as well.

Yeah, this is why I'm putting together this little rebuttal of what's being done to him, because I did know him.

We talked about a lot of the controversies that would be around him many times on this show.

I knew who he was, and I refuse to let his legacy be totally bastardized the way it's starting to be on the left as they're starting to push back against turning points,

ongoing strength as more and more student groups sign up to join it.

Last check was over 122,000, which is incredible because they only had 2,000 on the day Charlie was killed.

2,000 between high school and college.

Now over 122,000 have applied.

And I think they're feeling the threat of his growing legacy.

They don't like it.

And I don't know,

not staying on the left-right front, but staying on like the

assassin versus normal human front.

It's no accident to me that the most recent acts of violence have included two attacks on churches, the one in which the guy actually saw himself as a demon in the mirror.

target practice against the face of Jesus.

I just feel like there's something spiritual underfoot right now, something spiritually wrong.

And that's something else that Charlie gave to us in his passing, which is like a renewed commitment to faith, a reminder that its absence entirely almost from the public square is not a good thing.

It doesn't lead the society any place good.

And that's also being fought by some sort of a force.

You know, you can call it left or right.

I think it's more good and evil.

You know, it's more God versus devil.

And like it's an existential battle that we actually have to pay attention to.

I do think that there are evil forces out there.

We have to recognize them when they stand up and shoot children in a church while describing themselves as the devil.

Why?

Who are we to say it's not true?

Who are we to say there's no evil force among us that's driving these people to do these acts?

And that's, to me, is yet another reason why it's a great time to get renewed with your faith, to get back in touch with whatever it is.

It could be Judaism, could be Christianity, could be whatever.

Anyway, we don't have it solved, but just something beyond yourself, like something beyond yourself, something beyond the material world and beyond yourself.

I think ultimately that's the key, like connecting to something greater.

It could be hiking a mountain.

You know?

Nature.

Nature is, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, you take some time at the top of that and you think about this world and how it exists other than in your, you know, immediate radius or do a cold plunge in a lake, you know, do something, watch a sunset, get up early and watch a sunrise.

Any of this stuff.

It dwarfs you and your own individual humanity, which is a good thing.

It reminds you how small you are in this world.

You don't always need to be reminded of how big you are.

You're small.

You are but a cog in the wheel and this thing is going to go on long after you.

Maybe spend some time thinking about that, about like who else out there might be suffering, how you can help them.

They always say like charitable works, doing something for others, no matter how much you have or don't have, is actually a direct route to happiness.

Like just a, just a bit here and there.

Exercise is another way where you can improve the amount of serotonin in your brain and your feelings day to day that make you feel just a little bit more generous towards your fellow man.

They look like small things, but they're not.

All right, I got to take a break.

We're going to come back and we'll finish on a very fun note as we talk about Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert together last night.

Did you watch it?

I know you didn't, but I'll have the highlights for you.

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Hey, everyone, it's Nikki and Bree, and we're here to let you know that we have a podcast, the Nikki and Bree Show.

Yes, and we've got new episodes every Monday and Thursday.

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You started as a radio, you know, disc jockey.

As you said, when you were spinning platters and making with a banter, did you you ever think the president of the United States would be celebrating your unemployment?

I mean, that son of a bitch, you know, is

really unbelievable.

Mr.

Son of a bitch.

I mean,

Mr.

Son of a bitch.

His royal.

Yes, no, I never imagined that we'd ever have a president like this, and I hope we don't ever have another president like this again.

I mean, I never imagined,

I never even imagined there would ever ever be a situation in which the president of our country was celebrating hundreds of Americans losing their jobs.

Somebody who took pleasure in that, that to me is the absolute opposite of what a leader of this country is supposed to be.

Hear, here.

You literally argued that people who didn't get vaccinated shouldn't be treated in hospital beds and should be left to die if they have a heart attack.

So F off.

Good gracious.

I never imagined we have a leader who would celebrate someone losing his job.

Oh, the horrible sin.

That, of course, is because you tried to blame Charlie Kirk's assassination on MAGA, which was a lie for which you've never apologized and which you've never acknowledged.

Including last night, Glenn, they did not talk about Jimmy Kimmel's original sin that led to his five-day suspension and to the president expressing some mild joy at it.

You know, Megan, I think sometimes it's hard to express how insulated these people are.

I mean, I think they think that they are like political geniuses.

You know, the commentary they're offering is really scathing and cutting when in reality, it's just the most banal and vapid anti-Trump MSNBC hysteria.

There's nothing interesting about it.

There's nothing radical about it.

There's nothing substantive to it.

And I think that they think that because they live in this culture in Hollywood, where everybody constantly affirms the same view, there's almost nobody who deviates from it or questions it, that they're speaking this kind of ultimate truth.

And they think their success, relatively speaking, in like network late night TV and the amount of money that they make and the notoriety they've gained means that they must have something really unique to say and insightful to say.

And they're constantly reinforcing that amongst each other, like speaking as though they're not just martyrs, but political revolutionaries.

And it's really pathetic to watch.

He actually wants us to feel sorry for him.

Like this multi-millionaire with this megaphone on broadcast television, despite his terrible ratings.

By the way, I speak of both of them in that commentary.

Out there, like we're the real victims.

Meanwhile, he's a bully.

He uses that platform to demonize a group of people, just MAGA, right?

Which includes tons, millions of working class Americans just going about their day trying to make the bills, you know, and not have to worry about them from paycheck to paycheck, which is what they do without ever getting a vacation.

But he uses his platform to smear them as creating the Charlie Kirk assassin, doesn't even have the balls to come out there and say, I was wrong to do that, I was factually wrong and morally wrong, and to apologize, and now turns around with the help of his fellow multi-millionaire,

just Trump-hating, MAGA-hating guy, and plays the victim.

It's absurd.

It's really a twisted display.

It really makes me sick.

And I'll tell you what's worse about it is they have this certain set of beliefs.

Like, let's take immigration.

So if you have untrammeled immigration into the United States, there are a lot of people who are affected by it.

The people who have to live among

unassimilated immigrants, people who might have increased crime, who have competition for jobs because they're willing to work for lower wages.

And these are mostly like working class and poor people who have the obligation to endure and deal with and confront the effects on their lives and on their neighborhoods.

Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert, they're insulated from every single consequence of the policies they so self-righteously insist everybody else embrace.

And there's no awareness of that.

That's the thing that makes me the angriest.

Like they really think that they're these bastions of political wisdom and even like moral turpitude when their lives are completely twisted and distorted.

And also, like, as you say, it would be one thing if they were making all this money because everybody wanted to watch them.

Like Johnny Carson, you know, everybody in the United States watched Johnny Carson, like wanted to watch Johnny Carson.

I remember that thing.

That's capitalism.

Yeah.

And it's like, okay, he earned it.

These people are like, they want some kind of twisted, weird lottery where nobody watches them.

And yet at the same time, they make 15 and 20 million dollars a year and enjoy all the fruits of that that they completely unearned.

These the the least self-aware people that exist on the planet um and if you after megan market

well she's like part of this i mean she's part i mean she came from hollywood right and like to her the whole royal family thing was was part of hollywood and i'm going to pitch here maureen callahan who i know um we is a love that we share because this is what is so great about her commentary like a very cultural commentary is she like pierces the the the bubble in which these people who are really sick in which they live and i somebody who comes by liberalism or like leftism honestly i'll engage them there's parts i agree with them i understand the human impulse these people are just empty vassals these are the worst people there are

and and speaking of all that let me give you the latest sound bite from barack obama about his marriage to michelle

Oh, sorry, reversing that.

I mean, Michelle Obama asked about how he has to have the kids to talk about, right?

But not on a day-to-day basis.

So now that we're empty nesters, it's like, well, what are we going to talk about?

So we're together all day.

And we do this thing where it's like, I'll see him.

And it's like, what you've been doing?

It's like, oh, don't tell me until dinner because we're, we got to have something to talk about at dinner.

Are you sitting there from a, in a place that you know what matters to you in that moment?

And are you curious about your partner's edge or where they're at?

Like,

what are you thinking about?

Do you really go there?

And then, do you really say because how many times do you somebody ask, what are you thinking about?

And you're like, well, let me make up a thing because I don't want to actually

say what I was thinking about right now.

Which was like, the way you're chewing makes me want to smack you upside the head.

Which could be, which that be an edge?

That would be an edge.

And that would be really interesting.

You could like open something

that you're chewing annoy me so much.

She cannot stand him, Glenn.

I mean, you know, May, the only time I ever see clips of Michelle Obama is when you forced me to see them, and I'm so happy that because it is, I like watch that with my mouth agape.

Like, everything else we've discussed makes sense to me.

The level of contempt and hatred that she harbors for him, and not only that she harbors for him, but apparently feels like a strong need to let everybody know she has.

Like, it's not enough for her to just silently hate him.

She wants to like publicly talk.

I think we discussed the last time I was here that MSNBC article about that woman saying how terrible marriage was because like

these terrible smells, and eventually you come to hate the person.

And we were like, That's not the marriage that I'm familiar with.

That sounds like hell.

And

that's what Michelle Obama is describing Barack Obama as being.

They have nothing to talk about unless they save it until dinner.

He smacks his gum, and she's like stewing all day.

Like, this, I mean, this is a this is real contempt and hatred in a marriage.

Like, yes, she's

it was a couples therapist.

First of all, she had on a couples therapist, which is very interesting, her selection of guests, and Barack wasn't there.

And she talks about him as though she says it like we're all going to relate to like sitting there at the dinner table with daggers in your eyes towards your husband or your mate.

Like, he's disgusting.

I have only to hold myself together so I don't say it out loud.

Meanwhile, he's probably sitting across from her thinking, I had no idea she was totally bald on the left side of her head.

What happened to the hair in that lightning bolt that's missing?

I'm sorry, but if you have that issue, with a lot of women do, then you should cover it up.

You should not be shot from the left.

You should maybe hide it with it.

Okay, sorry.

I just took a little like jaunt off to the side.

But these two can't stand each other.

That's the bottom line.

We diagnosed it early.

And once again, Glenn, you, Maureen, and I were right.

Yeah, I mean,

like the Megan Markle show, I become an addict of, and I blame you and Maureen Callahan completely.

I've been avoiding the Michelle Obama thing just because

it's like, it's just watching somebody so full of, you would think she was like the most marginalized, like screwed, discriminated against, like impoverished, abused person on the planet.

I don't know how somebody like that.

not only gets so full of hatred, but hatred toward the person that you chose to marry and who is responsible for all the blessings you have in the world.

It's, I've never seen that before.

I don't know, but I feel like someone needs to perform a rescue of Barack Obama.

Like the next time he gets on camera, I'm telling you right now, Barack, blink twice like that if you're okay.

Just twice like that.

Squeeze your eyes together and then we'll know not to rescue you.

If you don't do that, someone's coming in with the flowered van to grab you because this man needs some sort of an intervention.

Glenn, thank you.

Great, great conversation, as always.

Always great to see you, Megan.

All right, and don't forget, everybody, go to MeganKelly.com to get tickets for our tour.

You can meet me and Glenn in person.

We'll see you tomorrow.

Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

Hey, everyone, it's Nikki and Bree, and we're here to let you know that we have a podcast, the Nikki and Bree Show.

Yes, and we've got new episodes every Monday and Thursday.

We're serving up real-deal conversations that go beyond the cameras: think motherhood confessions, sisterhood vibes, boss business energy, and TV live tea.

Need a laugh?

We got you.

Craving inspo?

We got inspiration and affirmations on deck.

Want a little cry or a big heck yes?

That's our jam.

Whether we're breaking down pop culture, sharing parenting wins or fails, unpacking personal growth, or just riffing on everyday chaos, nothing is off limits.

Plus, we welcome incredible guests, play our favorite games, and do what only sisters can.

Keep it it 100 while raising a glass together.

So pop a bottle, hit play, and come hang with us.

Listen to the Nikki and Brie Show wherever you get your podcast.