AOC and Bernie's Wild Town Hall, Mamdani Clams Up, and Victoria's Secret is Back, with The Fifth Column | Ep. 1173

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Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly.

Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show.

Buckle up.

We got a lot to get to today.

AOC and Bernie Sanders had a town hall on CNN last night.

Why?

Why again?

I mean, honestly, like, why are you doing it?

Like, when I was at Fox, if we had a town hall, we were gearing up for an election

and we'd put on the candidates and talk to them about their positions.

What are these fighting the oligarchy?

Did we go over her private jet and his?

Here's just a sample.

You won't believe, won't believe, who they're blaming for their party's woes.

Why does Republican messaging on social media seem so much more effective than Democratic messaging?

And what can they do about it?

Well, that's a great question.

I think the Republicans are effective.

They have learned a lot about social media.

And by the way, it doesn't hurt that their friends own all of the major social media platforms.

Also, because they have also been very clear, especially digitally, about what they believe.

That women are inferior

and they do not deserve equal rights.

That they believe that LGBTQ Americans are subhuman.

And they are able to radicalize and target and exploit a generation of young boys,

in particular,

away from healthy masculinity and into an insecure masculinity that requires the domination of others who are poorer, browner, darker, or a different gender than them.

Let's be perfectly clear.

There was indeed one party that radicalized today's young men, and it was yours, madam.

It was yours.

It was yours who blamed them for literally everything,

just because they were born and born male, the nerve.

Your side demonized them at every turn and laughed when they ever dared to express any actual pain at the circumstances that they were forced into through no fault of their own.

You are absolutely disgusting to now try to turn it around and say it is the Republican Party which came to their rescue that, quote, radicalized them.

You don't know any young Republican men.

I guarantee you right now, that woman knows zero Republican men because none of them would be seen with her.

And for her to come out there and try to turn what she and her brethren did to them for years

around it all, never mind to then blame it on the party that actually stood up for them, is the height of gall.

That is infuriating.

And the Republicans want to treat trans people as subhuman.

It's your side, your side that wants to take non-trans children, perfectly healthy children who may be going through normal emotional distress and literally give them double mastectomies so that you can feel better about who you are.

That's what you and your party are doing.

The Republicans are standing up for minors who deserve to have adequate and healthy sexual function when they get older, who deserve to breastfeed their children, who deserve to have children and not be sterilized at age 14 by puberty blockers into cross-sex hormones, a problem with which they will deal for the rest of their lives long after you have sailed into the sunset, Abuelita.

So you can take a seat on lecturing the right half of the country on the dehumanization of so-called trans people.

How dare you?

How dare you?

Okay, so we're three minutes into the show.

Deep breaths.

I had read the sound bite.

I had not seen it played out.

It's different when you hear it.

F that woman.

Like,

if she runs for president, I might run.

Honestly, like,

I'll find my way into the ticket somehow.

Like, there's no way this person can run for president or be president.

No, no, no, no,

no.

Okay, let's keep going.

There's more.

There was a big 24 hours for Democratic Socialists not named AOC.

The New York City mayoral candidate, Zoran Mamdani, sadly, the man who's probably going to be the next mayor of New York unless something very dramatic happens, was on Fox News yesterday ahead of his debate tonight.

And it was pretty interesting.

You know, I saw Britt Hume afterward talking about how he was very charming.

You know, he's a great talker.

He's very smiley.

And like most snake oil salesmen, he can sell.

He can sell.

And that's why he's leading in the polls and is probably going to be the next mayor of New York.

God help us.

Literally, God help us.

Say a prayer for New York.

And the Ladies of the View, they're claiming that Republicans, the evil Republican party that AOC says has radicalized young men into insecure masculinity, that the Republicans, they don't go on the view because they're too scared.

They're afraid.

They don't want to do intellectual battle with Joy Behar, who checks notes,

Whoopi Goldberg.

Joining me now to react to all of this are pals from the Fifth Column podcast, Camille Foster, editor-at-large for Tangle News, Michael Moynihan, host of the Moynihan Report on Two Way, and Matt Welsh, editor-at-large for Reason.

Go subscribe now to their new YouTube channel at youtube.com/slash at.

You got to put at on the new YouTube addresses.

It's annoying.

We have to do it for our, with our MK media shows too.

But it's youtube.com/slash the at sign, we the fifth, we the fifth.

And you will find them on the road with yours truly for the Megan Kelly Live Tour, which starts next week.

They will be with me on November 21st in Anaheim, California.

It's just outside of LA.

Look forward to seeing all of you there.

Get tickets now.

If you haven't 10 cities, one month, megankelly.com.

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Guys, welcome back.

Hey, Megan.

Hey, Megan.

Thanks for having us.

Awesome.

So I was with you in your new fancy studio where you sit right now.

I have to say, I feel like the kickoff went really well.

Very, very well.

It was the day drinking that really sold it.

Yeah.

I need to do more of that here on the MK show.

You know, Megan, I thought it really loosened you up.

And then I saw the first three minutes of this episode and I realized that you don't need the boost.

You got it.

You're ready to go.

It depends which button you want to press.

But yeah, those in particular, I mean, A-O-C.

Let's just start there.

The nerf.

The thing about the men is really bothering me, that it was the Republican Party that radicalized young men.

I mean, that

I realize politicians lie and they constantly blame the other side for their own sins.

That's not a new thing.

But on that issue in particular, it's just so galling, you guys.

I mean, who doesn't know?

You guys are men.

And

like, we all know young men.

I'm talking about like 18-year-olds, 16-year-olds, 20-year-olds who feel

dejected, completely disaffected by the constant messages of the last five years in particular, that they're to blame for everything, that they're not hirable, that they're not worthy of college admissions, that their pain doesn't matter.

You know, I'm thinking right now of my pals over on GB News and Lawrence Wright, who got into this,

he's an actor in Great Britain, and they just try to cancel him at every turn because he speaks truths that are uncomfortable.

And he got canceled because he was having rhetorical battle with this other woman, with this woman who was mocking the notion that Great Britain, which

had just appointed a minister for women, should appoint a minister for men to look at the number of male suicides and attempted suicides and the spike in male anxiety and depression.

And she mocked it.

She thought it was a joke.

She sneered at it.

And he responded to her like, F you, and said something like, What, what kind of a man would ever want to shag that?

You know, typical British style.

His life got blown up.

Lawrence Fox, I said Lawrence, right?

And he's a documentary filmmaker, Lawrence Fox.

He tried to stand up, like, for guys he knew who had, who had committed suicide.

And he was thinking of them as this woman who was like, F them, who cares about the men?

We've seen that at every turn.

And now this woman has the nerve.

It's her party, and not just her party, but her branch of it, the wokest of the woke on the left, that caused all that shit.

And was there pushback by CNN to say, uh,

no,

of course, why?

I mean, are we shocked?

But anyway, what do you guys make of it?

There's a uh, like five, six years ago, um, when uh, Jordan Peterson was first coming to prominence and starting to sell out arenas, I started looking into the phenomenon because it was interesting and I wanted to write about it for a reason.

And I wrote about with some criticism of him, but also it was fascinating to see how many people in media preemptively dismissed him because he had a male audience.

It's as if if there's a place where young men who are obviously searching in some way are gathering in preponderant numbers, then there is something kind of already inherently suspect about this.

We see this with our friends Andrew Schultz and what do they call them?

The podcast dude bros.

Bros, yeah, yeah.

And like, oh, they have a male audience.

So, you know, it's as if we all kind of understand that that is a problem.

That's been the overall vibe sent to sort of seeking men and the idea from AOC that the Republican Party is sitting here thinking about how to usher people, young men into insecure masculinity.

Can you imagine?

Like Mike Johnson.

Yes.

What do we do?

I'm going to usher them into, it doesn't even begin to make sense.

Yeah, I didn't need the internet for my insecure masculinity.

Just kind of a genetic thing, I think.

But no, I mean, it is, I don't know if she said this word, but I tried to watch this thing on CNN and every time I unmuted it, it was like the billionaires.

And I was like, okay, it's the same script over and over again.

But AOC, I mean, actually, AOC does a very good job of making Bernie look normal because you know he's not the, he's like, I don't toxic.

What?

What are you talking about?

I don't think that's Bernie's vibe so much.

But that prefix of toxic masculinity, which became so sort of mainstream, people say that in a way as if it's a common phrase and we all understand its meaning.

There's never a toxic femininity.

And I can assure you from so many experiences in my life.

Good Lord, is there ever, and I'm doing

seminars in Anaheim in November around the show on toxic femininity.

It is also a thing, but it's not a thing.

It's just the way people are.

But the thing is, is when you say this, people are radicalized online.

Young men are being radicalized online.

Okay, let's take that premise and say it's true.

I don't, I mean, the verb is obviously thumbing the scale.

They're being radicalized.

Maybe they're just being informed from a different source that they hadn't otherwise been exposed to.

Changing their politics,

politics, as young people do.

But typically, it's a glide path from high school into college where you have the Noam Chomsky bit and you become radical.

Some people stay there.

Most people then become investment bankers and forget all about it.

But this is kind of like the obverse of that, where people are starting at 18 years old and they're, you know, interacting with totally different political news sources that they hadn't had before.

And they're just being enlightened by them, they're being convinced.

But the thing that she's missing, well, there's a million things she's missing, but the main one is what brings them there.

Megan, your soliloquy at the beginning of the show explains some of that, of why people get there, and they're a little overwhelmed by what happened in Me Too, what happened in 2020.

They said, you know, I don't feel that this is the country that I'm a part of.

These aren't the friends that I'm a part of, these supposedly toxic people.

And then there's a chorus of people out there who aren't a part of the mainstream that are speaking to them.

That's a pretty fascinating thing.

That's not something to denounce and say, God, we have to sort of push back on this.

And

they think trend people are sub or LGBTQ are sub-human.

Yeah, I'm not sure.

Lord, it's, it's, didn't she open the clip saying something along the lines of they said explicitly what they want to do and then goes on to characterize every single position explicitly that they have.

So I guess that's how we can just kind of discount what they say.

But Megan, you, you were kind of outraged, but it seems like you should maybe be reassured because AOC hasn't learned anything from the...

I know.

You're not wrong.

I did think that.

She's just going to keep losing.

She's just going to keep driving young, even young men typically vote Democrat for the reasons Moynihan was saying, but now, not in the last election and not in the next election, if this is what the Democrats took away.

Keep going, Camille.

Well, she wasn't the architect of every single bad idea that rose to prominence over the last couple of years, but she was certainly at the head of the parade, like championing all of these ridiculous causes, defund the police.

She was there, front and center.

I remember her saying something along the lines of, this is where our politics are right now.

If you aren't with it, then you need to get the hell out of the way while we run over you and essentially impose chaos across the entire country.

They have yet to apologize or even reckon with the fact that they helped to bring about their own reckoning, to use the word another way in a slightly different context.

And that is the fundamental takeaway from the most recent election.

One could say, you know, Donald Trump has a mandate.

Maybe.

It's somewhat debatable.

What you can't say, however, is that Democrats did themselves any favor over the course of the last, over the course of the previous administrations.

Yeah.

To me, the whole thing is so infuriating and it's so disingenuous.

And like, it's not going to work.

Those young men are never going to look at her and say, oh, okay, she gets me now.

Not least of which because she's leaning in, but also she's been making a thing out of this.

She thinks she's onto something.

We just ran a Instagram clip of her a couple days ago where she used the same turn of phrase of insecure masculinity.

Like, that's what the Republicans are, that's why they're acting like men again.

That's you're insecure if you are an actual man who doesn't cower, who doesn't feel the need to, you know, wear a man bun, who actually has testosterone and understands that some urge toward aggression and

competition is natural and it's born with you if you're a normal man.

She's turning those men off, you know, by the millions, continues to, I guess I should say.

And here's the second song bite along those same lines.

This is deeply insulting for the obvious reasons, but it's also yet another like pot shot at young men in a way.

Here it is: SOP 13.

Rhetoric and beliefs were ignorant, uneducated, and sought to disenfranchise millions of Americans, far from the working, quote, working tirelessly to promote unity, unquote, asserted by the majority in this resolution.

So Charlie Kirk was uneducated and ignorant, according to AOC.

What could be further from the truth, right?

I mean, like, you can take your shots at Charlie Kirk.

Uneducated and ignorant are not two of them.

Now, she goes with uneducated because he didn't go to college.

That's what she actually thinks of the working class from which she hails, right?

She wants us to know she's AOC from the Bronx.

She's not whatever her real name is from Westchester, Sandy, Sandy Cortez from Westchester.

So she's got to take a dump on people who don't go to college.

You're uneducated, as though that's the only way one can educate oneself in 2025 America.

It's a lie.

Charlie knew it was a lie.

It was actually one of the things he felt most passionately about: with all the online access we have now, Hillsdale College, et cetera, which I know he was a big fan of, their online properties.

You don't need to go to college to just go and be indoctrinated into left-wing thinking.

So she's such an elitist snob at the Met Gala, but she's going to wear her dress saying tax the rich, so that makes it okay.

You know, saying she's working-class Bronx, but dumping all over people who don't get a four-year college degree.

Like she's just a hypocrite and ignorant.

See, anybody who doesn't share her opinions of the world has to be ignorant.

It can't be a good faith disagreement, a genuinely, you know, felt difference of opinion.

Take somebody who's

without question, well-educated, Michael Knowles.

He shared Charlie's views, I think, on everything.

I don't think there was any daylight between them.

And he could make mincemeat out of AOC in any debate, as Charlie could have as well.

Let's take the trans issue, right?

Michael Knowles has been arguing that in the most forceful terms possible for a long, long time.

Is he ignorant is that his problem or does he just have a much different view of the issue based on his own reading and research versus aoc it's just the whole thing is diminishing and she feels especially empowered to do it because

it was a white guy charlie kirk as is michael knowles for that matter your thoughts

I might be a little bit oversensitive to this being a college dropout,

but

you went to college, Matt, you just couldn't hack it, right?

Okay, that's one of the things.

It's interesting to use the word word uneducated isn't it like why is it that word why isn't it wrong why isn't it ignorant ignorance is actually much more defensible you could say well you know this person just somehow doesn't understand or hasn't learned a lot about the world okay you were wrong about that but like that's at least an argument uneducated suggests that there is a fix that these people could go through by being you know inert sheep vessels to be uh the recipients of the transmitted virtues of the graduates from the Columbia Teachers College or something.

It is crazy, crazy, crazy elitist to say such things.

And it's really ironic and fun almost that AOC and Bernie Sanders, who are kind of

part of the DSA wing of the party, which is ostensibly supposed to be for working people.

They could be telling a story about young men in this country and having a theory of the case where they'd be able to make their socialist arguments.

And that theory of the case is we have a really weird,

kind of unique in the rich world problem of people of working age not working, right?

And this is disproportionately men, but not only men compared to the rest of the world.

So what's your theory of the case for that?

And how are you going to address it?

They could do that with empathy and sympathy.

They could also look at the fact that we have crazy disability policies in this country that they probably supported in many cases that people are opting into, into, even though they're not quite disabled.

But they don't want to do that because that would call into their own things into question.

But they're not doing any of that.

They're instead calling you uneducated because you disagree with how they look at the world.

And this is why we're seeing this kind of shift of

the political demographics in this country from who is the party of the rich and who is not.

It's an amazing thing because we have given AOC far too much credit for being a skilled politician.

I mean, the thing that allows AOC to have, as you pointed out, Megan, a town hall for no one in particular, for no election in particular, just a random one is because people in the media love her.

I interviewed her the day that she won her election against Joe Crowley, I think.

And

it was unbelievable.

It's a local race in a district.

I think.

Does she has she been to the district yet?

If she's there, we should see if she wants to have drinks.

But yeah,

it was amazing how much people just wanted this young, reasonably attractive person who was a bit of a socialist.

And, you know, by the way, young people not working, if you want to see where that really happens, go to socialist countries like Spain, where like young people unemployment is like 48, 50%.

But it's an incredible thing of how little they have learned about politics.

And I just say this, you know, as objective as I can, not in any partisan way, is that you don't do working class politics by saying things like these voters and these people who disagree with me are uneducated.

And, you know, having your, you know,

rallies at Columbia for Hamas and not mentioning hostages and things like this.

This is a mile away from the average working class voter.

Donald Trump, I mean, it was the thing that I had to figure out early on in 2016 of saying, and we've talked about it, I think we might have even talked about it when you were on our great new YouTube show, Megan Kelly.

Which is awesome.

which is great the first guest was really a real cracker jack

but when we

we were talking about this and this is the thing that people we discovered something in 2016 donald trump the billionaire right oh my god he's talking about how rich he is how can he connect with working class voters it's like no no well he wasn't pretending to not be rich he was saying i'm a rich guy and you guys are getting screwed because i know how the system works and the system exists to screw people like you whereas all these other people that are trading stocks on the house floor are saying, you know, as a working class person, and I'm commuter Joe Biden who gets on the Amtrak, it's not believable.

With Donald Trump, it didn't have to be believable.

He wasn't pretending to be somebody he wasn't.

And that really resonated with people where you have somebody talking about the working class like AOC who's making these arguments that is, talk about polarization.

It's not that you don't.

You know, we are on different sides of an issue.

I'm trying to persuade you.

You're fundamentally a bad person.

You have these ideas that make people subhumans.

You don't, you didn't even go to college.

That's your problem.

How the hell, after 2015 to today, we have a decade of not learning this very, very simple lesson on how to talk to voters.

It's astonishing to me.

The contrast between AOC and Bernie is really fascinating.

I mean, he is supposed to be kind of carrying the torch for him going forward.

Clearly, the cultural power center of the Democratic Party is in Mandami.

It's in AOC.

It's in Bernie and has been in Bernie for more than a decade now.

But it's the younger lot that bring this kind of social justice edge along with them.

And that is the thing that I think many, many voters are incredibly turned off by.

The economic populism,

you find that on both sides of the aisle at this point.

Donald Trump has a lot of those qualities.

He is pursuing a lot of policies that would ordinarily be identified with someone like a Bernie Sanders.

But it's that other thing that is the problem.

And it's that other thing that continues to be front and center in so many of these conversations.

And we're going to talk about Mandami in a little bit, but the question about Hamas and his preposterous non-response to it is just, it is mind-boggling that these people aren't willing to just lie about this stuff, at least confess

your objective because that will actually help you win elections.

This other thing is a, it is a total loser.

You can only win by default

with Donald Trump and Republicans essentially making themselves unelectable.

That's the only hope that you have if you are going to maintain this course or even double down on the same stupid rhetoric that lost you the last election.

And keeping in mind the question, the question they were asked was, why is your

policies, your rhetoric not resonating with people non-Republicans?

They were like, that's

exactly why that's happening.

At least anyway, you hate that.

No, I love how it's like, oh, you know, all their buddies own the social media.

Like, is that what the Democrats are telling them?

Like, I can't get anything trending because Elon owns X.

Yeah, Elon wants engagement.

That's all he wants.

He wants Democrats logging on, Republicans logging on, and staying on and retweeting things.

He's not falsely

helping Republican memes go viral.

Republicans are doing that all on their own because they are clever.

I mean, look what they did to that exact video.

I'll show it now.

They got their hands on the clip we just showed.

And watch.

Why does Republican messaging on social media seem so much more effective than Democratic messaging?

And what can we do about it?

Well, that's a great question.

I just want to

point out for the record that on the Fox Business Network, we had an actually drunk Camille Foster wear a sombrero while

we had

a tasting contest.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Nothing to do with the cancellation event.

They're great.

Well, Camille's been everywhere.

I I saw Camille in a clip we're running, well, might as well get to it now.

I mean, I'm not bad into AOC and Bernie.

You were sitting next to this lunatic white lady who's been making the rounds saying all sorts of terrible things about

whites and Republicans.

Like, that's her thing.

I don't know who she is.

She's from the South, and she's like made her name by trying to say, like, I'm like the white racist Republican whisperer, even though she's always been a Democrat.

She wants us to claim she's deep in these Republican circles and has got all the good, all the goods on the right wing.

Poor Camille got dragged into this because he was sitting next to her or near her.

And this happened.

Uh-oh.

A white woman that has lived in a red state my entire life.

And I can tell you, when I'm around white people, they test the racist water.

They test it on people like you all all the time.

And they'll try to say off-color things.

I put my hand on it.

It absolutely happens.

and you're fortunate that maybe you have a lot of people.

I'm a different generation.

Can I just say, literally, this August, a white person said the N-word in front of me.

This is that woman who chimed in as the one who's like, why didn't anyone ask me how I feel about what was it, tariffs or something?

I can't remember what it was.

Like, because no one gives a shit.

Your opinion is totally irrelevant to us.

That's why.

But I love,

I love your facial expression, Kami.

Like, what?

I'm an active listener.

At least I'm not trying to interrupt everybody.

Like, what circles is she hanging out in?

Because unlike this Jennifer Welch,

I actually am surrounded by Republicans all the time.

And I've never heard anybody test the water.

And what does it even mean?

Like, in my mind, testing the waters is like when you're trying to score drugs and you're like, you party?

This is how I imagine it would be done.

I don't know.

I've never done a drug other than booze.

Is that not it?

I'd be like, that's water testing.

No, it's exactly what it is, Megan.

Interesting.

You know, at some some point,

she did kind of suggest that, you know, they may only suggest that they're joking.

They're kind of telling jokes.

No, no, they're jokes.

Like, sometimes people make it.

No, they're actual jokes.

Sometimes they do.

I don't know what it is.

Like, as if there's like a circle of whites, and it has to be south of the Mason Dixon, and they get together around like the backyard barbecue, and they're like,

I can't even think of what to say.

All I can think of is this racist.

I heard this racist story story of this girl trying to get somebody to say the n-word by saying finish this sentence salt and are they going to vent the entire and that it's bad i'm just trying to think of like what what circles is she walking around in you know what i mean it's like people aren't saying that no they're not how do you dip your toe in the racist water to see if other people are going to blurt out with yeah something super racist thank thank god you tore the label off so we get this started Well, I'm going to answer this for Camille because I know he wants to go back on the show and be just want to be ecumenical.

fellas i am not ecumenical

being nice about these people here across from

here

is what happens when that happens with her it never happens

she's making it up that does not happen like this is oh do you know our friend who's the famous liberal podcaster let's test out some racist jokes with her and see how we can go you know what i mean i mean it's plausible thing

well i i like your podcast but

a joke about some mexicans It's like, what?

That's not happening.

And if it is happening, you should not keep the people around.

Don't invite them over anymore.

Where are you hanging out?

That's what you're doing.

Well, my friend.

I don't even, like, I'm not even sure what she's talking about.

Like, what, how are they even edging up to it?

Like, she's such a lunatic.

It could be like, you know, anyone wants some watermelon?

She's like, oh,

here it goes.

You did.

Get back at it.

No, actually, there's watermelon and hot dogs in the backyard.

Help yourself.

I'm just just saying, like, she's a lunatic, this person.

Here she is.

Corey Booker of whom she's not

a fan.

Here, watch.

There are votes that you've made that were heartbreaking to me, like the vote for Kushner.

That really pissed me off.

This administration, it's not, are they fascist?

They are fascist.

It's not, we're on the precipice of fascism.

Texas is sending troops to Illinois.

I feel like the opposition needs to be fuck no across the board.

We're not giving you a centimeter.

And you're one of them that's kind of been disappointing to me because we podcasted before.

They're serious about Project 2025.

They're going to do all this shit.

What do you have to say about the capitulation that you've participated in and where the Democratic Party is right now?

Well, first of all, I would say white women

don't get to talk to black men that day.

One of the things I dislike about the Democratic Party is that we do a circular firing squad all the time.

Their party, they disagree.

There's a wild disagreement in the Republican tent, and yet they don't shoot at each other.

And we have a really good way of holding up these purity tests.

That if I agree with you on 90% of the time, that's such bullshit.

That is such bullshit.

Oh my god, you're racist.

Trump has sent so many people out to pasture.

She's, I mean, that's that lady's out of line.

You're not allowed to talk to a black man like that.

I've been told, put on my listening ears, take a beat, and maybe be quiet before you tell the black person that they're wrong.

Black men like that.

Camille, she was very polite.

And that Booker guy.

She was very polite.

You know, that the clip actually makes me think about, though, Megan, is something else that

came up during that same CNN appearance, which I'm very curious about your perspective on to not change topics, but maybe expand it a little bit here.

Why aren't, or do you think it would be feasible for Democrats to try and work with the administration?

on various immigration issues to perhaps try and find a way to more peaceably execute these deportations.

Do you think that the administration might be open to that?

Do you think that that might be a constructive move for Democrats?

I mean, I've often heard people reflect on the fact that Barack Obama deported lots and lots of people, way more people than

the town hall.

But the fact that he managed to do that without deploying the National Guard actually seems really important too.

And maybe Democrats could build some bridges, could actually build up some equity amongst voters and show their reasonableness on an issue that a lot of Americans are actually fine with with respect to

facts, not in evidence.

But do you think if Democrats were to reach out, that there might be an opportunity for them to work with administration?

I definitely think Trump would work with them.

Trump would 100% work with them.

He's so bipartisan.

Like he would be great.

He loves counting these wins and being like, see, this person and I were together.

Look at the

prison reform he did in Trump 1.0.

That was with Van Jones.

I mean, he's totally fine working with people across the aisle.

It's the Democrats who won't do it.

It is, let me give a simpler case.

Husband and wife get divorced.

They fight like animals toward each other.

They're the nastiest two humans can be to one another, notwithstanding the fact that they have children with whom they need to share custody and, you know, split time and drop them off and pick them up and see each other.

And they turn the kids against each other.

And they know it's very damaging for the children to pass negative messages through them to the other one, but they do it.

They fight in front of them.

And the judge or the custodial

guardian, I light them will say, please, please, please.

It's like Judge Judy used to say, you have to love your child more than you hate your spouse.

Please behave better.

And they can't do it.

Why?

Because their emotions run so high toward this person.

It's a hatred.

I can't help myself.

That's how they feel.

They can't, even for their beloved child, they can't get it in check.

And that is the Democrats and Donald Trump.

Like, I've had so many Democrats say to me, this is, it's like a relationship with Hitler or, you know, one of his top lieutenants, where

your character is defined and will forever be defined on whether you stood up.

So

there's no working with.

There's no calming down and getting yourself out of that trance.

Same way way the husband and wife can't do it.

Neither can these Dems.

They will not be working with him.

That's my take.

I think also, though, there is immigration enforcement is a presidential issue at this point.

It is the executive, starting really with Barack Obama when he did DACA, which was a huge executive power grab.

I'm going to just say these 4 million people are exempt from immigration enforcement.

He had his pen and his phone.

He had his pen and his phone.

Well, Donald Trump has used the pen and phone more than any president since FDR and bragged about it and keeps getting getting larger and larger mock pens to do this.

But presidents are enforcing law.

And so there's less.

actual material for Congress to work with a president on this.

And meanwhile, this president is enforcing law in a pretty aggressive way.

He's deploying ICE against the wish, or deploying the National Guard against the wish of mayors and governors.

And ICE is out there doing very, very aggressive raids in masks, oftentimes, or at least enough that we've seen on

video footage of American citizens in many cases.

And so, of course, Democrats in those cities are going to react negatively to it and not going to be thinking like, this is the time for bipartisan immigration reform.

That's just not how that's going to work.

But I think to Megan's point.

They have to wear the masks.

They're getting doxxed, and there are actually bounties out on them now.

You'd be an insane person to be an ICE officer.

Now, you don't think what?

Yes, they do.

Easy for you to say.

It is true.

It's easy for me to say.

Please.

Easy for you to say.

You're not risking your life every day, actually, just trying to clean up Joe Biden's mess with children at home.

And these people literally putting a bounty on your head.

They are actually putting bounties on their heads.

That literally just happened with

these gangs.

And the head of the Border Patrol just had a $10,000 bounty put on his head.

It goes up to $50,000 now.

Why wouldn't they wear a mask?

They don't need to show their face.

They know it's ICE.

They're armed.

They're wearing ice jackets.

They just don't need to show what their particular face looks like.

Yeah.

Just on the issue of the kind of bipartisanship, to your point, Megan, it's funny because what you're referencing just happened in the clip that you showed.

This woman,

that weird skeletal woman who was talking,

just please.

Have a burger.

He'll be happier.

I'm trying to describe.

I don't like when people don't look healthy.

It's just me.

Okay.

I'm for women.

I am

not a toxic man.

I'm for women.

What does she say in that deranged soliloquy that is supposed to be a question?

She says, and this is how you prevent people from working together, to Megan's point.

is you say that it's not as if we're on the precipice of fascism.

We are in full fascism.

That if this dummy had any idea what fascism actually was, would mean that she didn't have a show in which she talked to an opposition politician, which doesn't happen in fascism dummy i mean the fascism is just evident by appointing jared kushner yeah yes

obviously yeah you mean kushner uh jared kushner uh that as you know what she's talking about like jared why did he appoint jared kushner he just helped find peace in the middle east she's upset about it i mean good lord i mean if i want to get in trouble uh amongst certain a certain precinct of my friends is my my unreserved uh uh praise for Jared Kushner and what he did with the Abraham Accords

this time around too.

Give the guy some credit.

They mocked him for saying, I read 25 books on the Middle East.

Maybe you guys should read 26.

They were the right books.

Wait, either I got one more, Jennifer Welch for you.

Oh, we got it.

I got one more for you.

Speaking, that's the lady.

That's the under-nourished lady, angry lady, apparently with all the racist friends.

You tell me, this sounds a little racist, too, from her.

This is, she's ripping on J.D.

Vance.

I believe this is because he was like, those guys, those so-called young Republicans who had the racist text chain with the ridiculous comments that was outed yesterday by Politico J.D.

Vance is like I'm not going to get my pearl I'm going to start not gonna start clutching pearls over these guys when we've got a Virginia attorney general candidate who's literally calling to put two bullets in the head of Republicans and their children and this the other side says nothing um here she is talking about that with Chris Hayes on Wednesday

He is married to a woman of Indian descent.

Yes.

He has mixed-race children.

So to all of the MAGA voters out there, if this man will not defend his wife and will not defend his kids, do you think he gives a crap about you or anything to do with you?

She's mad that JD didn't get offended more by a bunch of 22-year-old knuckle-headed losers in some text chain, private amongst them, saying racist things.

She's mad he didn't stand up for his brown wife and his mixed race children as their knight in shining armor because Usha Vance needs to be protected from all of her Supreme Court clerkships.

I mean, like,

they can't understand a world in which a person is like,

whatever.

I don't need to comment on every stupid comment that's made by somebody in my party.

However, you Democrats do need to comment in the Virginia race involving one particular candidate who is on the record as admitting to having said he wants Republicans to die along with their children.

Seems like a much bigger deal.

Why do these Democrats always do this?

They always bring up the fact that he has a mixed-race children and an Indian wife to somehow require more of J.D.

Vance.

Yeah, actually, she mentioned the same stuff during that appearance on CNN that we had together as well and used this phrase, like brown, his brown children, which during the appearance i actually like suggested that was probably not appropriate and was something that she should avoid um but i do also think that jd right to call out the hypocrisy as you just highlighted as well but his comments about this have not been particularly good and he entered into this fray voluntarily on so on x didn't do it in a particularly eloquent way and then the next day further compounds the problem for himself by commenting on it further saying things like i will tell my kids not to post things online, because if you post things online, that's very bad for you.

No, that's not really it, JD.

The issue isn't that they are posting things online.

It's that they are posting deplorable things in this secret group chat.

And it seems that some of the people in that group chat might have been a bit older, not kids, as he continued to characterize it.

And there might have even been elected officials who were in this group chat.

I don't know.

My suspicion is that a lot of this is precisely what you would expect to happen in these clandestine signal groups, like people just kind of talking, shit talking and doing all sorts of other locker room talk.

Maybe some of these people have authentically nefarious, awful beliefs.

But what you can say in a context like that, if you are J.D.

Vance, one of the standard bearers of the Republican Party, a party that does have some material challenges with respect to actual racist sentiments that are bubbling up in our polity right now.

Totally disagree.

Totally disagree with that, Camille.

It's the Democrats who are the racists.

Republicans do not have that problem.

Maybe the Republicans of some some years ago, I don't know what you're referring to, but today's Republicans are signing on in particular young black men like there's no tomorrow.

It's black women who vote Democrat, but it's the Democrats who divide us by race nonstop and try to tell us we're one thing because of this color of our skin.

I think you are right that overt race essentialism is the unique kind of bailiwick of Democrats right now.

But there is a version of that that has become more prominent on the right.

Nick Fuentes, who we we talked about the other day, who has been...

He's not on the right.

I don't know what he is.

I think he would characterize himself that way.

At a minimum, he's kind of in orbit around the right.

And I wouldn't say that.

I don't think that's true.

Who does he like?

He hates Trump.

He doesn't like Trump.

He hates J.D.

Vance.

He was singing Gavin Newsom's.

I don't watch Nick Fuentes, but I see the reports on him on X.

He was seeing Gavin Newsom's praises, like full-throated praises.

I think the reason he likes Gavin Newsom, according to what X told me, is he's white and he's got a white wife and he's got white kids and he doesn't like the fact that JD is,

you know, got in this mixed marriage, whatever.

So it's like, he's not of the right.

I don't know what he is, but he is not of the right.

Keep going.

I don't know how we want to position him, but I will, let me offer this in terms of what JD could have said, right?

JD could have said, the issue here.

is that the people in this group were saying deplorable things and the deplorable things that they were saying, it's not just that they were racist or that they used the N-word.

They were degrading people because they suggested that their dignity was not a function of their humanity.

Those are fundamental.

I get it.

I get that.

Okay.

I get that.

I get it.

I get it.

You can clear that problem.

While also highlighting the hypocrisy of the other side, as opposed to just decising the actual problem.

I get it.

But

you got to understand the mindset that we're all in right now.

I mean, like, I think those of us on the right in particular who are close with Charlie and J.D.

Vance was among them.

He's the one who just brought back his friend's fucking corpse on Air Force 2.

And I had been with JD at the White House the day this story broke and he tweeted, like, I'm not going to pearl clutch over this, when we were all hugging Erica Kirk, who was in tears as she accepted posthumously Charlie's presidential medal of freedom.

The mindset right now is

you cheered when our friend basically got his head blown off.

You cheered, you laughed, you made memes out of it and t-shirts showing it.

I guarantee you, some Cretans are going to make it into a costume.

And I don't have any time or tolerance for you saying you didn't like comments in what was supposed to be some private chat between a bunch of losers who I don't know if there were elected officials in there, but I've been following this story.

No elected official has been accused of saying anything racist in that threat.

It's the chair and the vice chair of something called Young Republicans, which I don't even totally understand.

In all my years covering politics, I've never heard of them.

A lot of groups call themselves like young this, young that.

It doesn't mean that they represent all of that party in America.

So

I can see why he did it.

He was basically like, don't fucking lecture me on how we're supposed to be talking in a way that's more genteel and not offensive.

I am not here for it.

Yeah, I would say that there are a couple of things about that.

There's one opportunity here for a conversation.

I don't want to say what somebody should tweet or not.

I mean, my advice is to elected officials is just don't tweet.

It's just never a good idea to tweet.

I've learned that lesson myself.

But I mean, there is

next, next stop, what you say on the air.

Oh, yeah, no.

I mean,

I got a timeshare in Greenland, and I think that's the only salvation for, I think.

And by the way, I want to say our group chat is very racist towards Camille, and he's on it.

And so I can't, I think it's kind of hypocrisy for me to denounce it when I call, I don't say the N-word, but I say some other stuff.

You do occasionally a couple times I've said it directly.

By the way, I'll give you back the floor.

But by the way, I just printed this out.

You know, Hunter Biden.

Hold on.

Hunter in the laptop in the text that nobody would publish refers to his attorney, George Maziras, as the N-word repeatedly.

N-I-blank, blank, A.

You better not be charging me whatever rates.

He goes on and he says it repeatedly.

I don't remember.

Where were all the Democrats condemning this Republican chat when Hunter Biden was using the N-word over and over and over and over?

I think that's the N-I-G-G-A,

as in my nigga.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, he's been trying to get us to say this.

No,

I think if we did that, we completely disarm actual racists.

We should just do it.

I'm not doing it.

I'm telling you to do it.

I was doing what Jennifer Welsh thinks.

I have literally never heard anybody utter that word, even with the A at the end, in my presence.

I've seen it on TV.

Open up the Bad News Bears from like 1977.

You get every single one from like, oh my God.

Like we tried to watch it with our kids.

We were like, mute, mute, mute.

Mugging and being racist, which is like, I literally see where they're starting to do.

In the remake they had, they just changed it to sort of anti-Armenian.

Oh, well.

Which is funny.

Always.

Because it's something we can all support.

I'm kidding.

Yeah, he was a Kardashian factor.

I think I interrupted you, Moynihan, so I apologize.

Keep going.

I was just saying that I think that there is a legitimate conversation to be had.

And I don't, and this is nothing to do with J.D.

Vance.

I don't think this is the sort of province of J.D.

Vance, something he should have a conversation about.

But there is a legitimate conversation to be had about what the right is in this kind of Groiper phenomenon.

It is a thing.

Like if we can talk about, you know, the people that get out there and praise the death of Luigi Mangioni,

sorry, the killing of the executive by Luigi Mangione.

I mean, this is not a majority of people, but enough to go down there and cheer at a courthouse, right?

Nick Fuentes was at January 6th, and I think he was wearing a MAGA hat that day.

He's been disaffected from Donald Trump because Donald Trump has been very pro-Israel.

He doesn't like J.D.

Vance because his wife is Indian, because he's a racist.

I mean, this is a pretty straightforward thing.

It's not like I have to do some Kremlinology here.

But there are those, if you want to have the conversations about the radicalization of young men, that's an insane conversation in the way they're having it.

But there is a small group of people who are being introduced to conservative politics in a 4-chan, 8-chan way that is troubling.

And you see a lot of it on...

Life signaling.

And it's just like,

and there's a part of this where people started saying the word retarded a lot more and just saying it constantly to say how, this is how transgressive I am.

That's actually gotten to a place where people use racial slurs for the same reason.

I don't know if they're racist, but they just say it because that's the transgressive things.

There's a conversation there that's interesting, but it's never the one that we're having because it's trying to say,

this group is racist or this group is not race, whatever.

There is a serious conversation to be had about some of these outer precincts in the horseshoe theory of far right, far left, and what they mean to the movements to both of them.

I got to take a break, but when I think about 4chan and the groups you just, I think about lying in wait Democrat killers.

That's what I think is happening over there.

I'm not worried about racial slurs by a bunch of losers who feel empowered by saying them.

I'm worried about trans Tifa getting their next victim and assassination planned because that's what we're actually seeing off of those discussion forums.

It's deeply troubling.

Stand by.

There's more right after this.

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Okay.

I wanted to do one more soundbite from the AOC Bernie interview before we completely move on from that because it was kind of interesting and maybe potentially telling.

And it was on the subject of whether she's going to challenge Chuck Schumer

in

his next senatorial bid.

Here it is.

But are you saying that Senator Schumer should not be worried about a primary challenge from you?

No.

Let me jump in on this one.

This is

what we're talking about.

It's exactly what we're talking about.

We have a country that is falling apart.

We're at a housing crisis, a health care crisis, an education crisis, massive income and wealth inequality, a corrupt campaign finance system, and the media says, oh, what are you going to run for?

Nobody cares.

So run more towards the city.

Nobody cares.

There's the Health Speaker and President Trump and the Vice President saying it.

Pardon?

Well, of course, they're saying it to deflect attention away from the real issue.

Exactly.

And here, let me tell you what the real issue is.

But CNN talks about it.

And you'll just have to wonder because we cut the sound bite too early.

Okay.

Why it was about health care, but

why such an adverse reaction to this subject of whether she's going to challenge Chuck Schumer in a primary bid?

She kind of had that blush, didn't she?

The first thing before she started gesticulating wildly.

Listen, back to, I think, I thought she said no at the beginning and then spun that into something else.

She did say no, but she might have been saying, no, that's not what I'm saying.

So that's hard.

When you say this, when you do this, well, this is what the media does.

This is the problem.

It's not, it's actually, that is the problem with politicians.

It's a totally sensible question.

It's a question that New Yorkers want to know, that people that are interested in politics want to know, that America would like to know about.

It's a totally reasonable question.

And the deflection is here to say, well, there's other things happening in the world that are bad.

Can you not walk and chew gum?

Yeah, but we do not have two questions we can talk about.

And they do talk about, because I watched that damn thing.

They do talk about healthcare.

They do talk about all these other things.

Is it what is wrong with asking that question?

That is a complete ridiculous, you know, well, what about?

What's the rapist politics in America is being mad at the media.

This is true.

Yeah, because Americans hate the media more than they hate even their own lives.

Or actually, they love their own lives.

They hate the media.

Democrats don't hate the media.

Democrats hate the media too.

Bernie does.

The populist side, right?

Populism, there's a reason why Bernie and Trump both kind of rose up at the same time.

And that part of the Democratic Party has always been, had something against the media.

I covered the Ralph Nader campaign in 2000 when he got 2.7% of the vote.

He was against the oligarchs in the media and the corporate media, this and the corporate media, that.

Every single day, he wouldn't stop talking about it.

And it's popular because people do feel alienated from the media.

I think their analysis of the media has been absolutely wrong for a really long time.

And they will say with a straight face that the media is run by Republicans and corporate lobbies.

And they've been saying that for 30 years.

They're wrong, but it's a popular message.

You can always blame it.

I was once moderating a Libertarian Party debate, God help me, like

presidential debate.

I know, back in like 2016 or something.

And one of the candidates

just decided, and he's a guy I know

and am friendly with but he decided to take a perfectly normal question like you know would you abolish everything and and then that's the problem with the media and then afterwards he's just like sheepishly like

I gotta do that problem with the media

I'll give an example of this on the on the kind of left version of this is

John Oliver, who's apparently a comedian, but he has a show on HBO and he did a whole piece on my friend Barry Weiss the other day.

And in the lead up,

it was so dishonest.

Keep going.

Oh, horrible.

But in 10 minutes, he's like, he's like, you know, the corporate media.

And he talks about Jeff Bezos and the guy who owns, who owns the LA Times now, Patrick, whatever his name is.

Yeah, Soon Shang, and he's been on your show.

He's a bit maha.

Jeff Bezos, who's nobody's idea of a conservative, but he's been, you know, saying, let's make the editorial page of the Wall Street, the Washington Post free minds and free markets, like reason.

So now he's in the,

you know, the sites of people like this.

But it's like, I was thinking watching this, have you never heard of Carlos Slim?

Have you never heard of any of these other billionaires who have taken over media corporations?

And the reason now that they're re-spinning this is that, well, they're becoming a little bit disaffected.

And you have people bringing Barry Weiss in to bring to shake it up CBS, the third place in the ABC, CBS, nbc rating sweepstakes for news and that terrifies them so now they're turning all the guns on the media because the owners in their i think this is a completely demented worldview are people that are nominally of the right this is our territory we get to own the media not you guys when we do and that's you know and bernie sanders one obvious thing that is so damn obvious that you don't even notice it and he's like is cnn gonna talk about this and it's like you're on

You're on CNN.

Listen.

On one hand, you're very good at imitations.

Yeah, we've noticed this before.

But you're very talented at that.

Here's what's really bothering them.

Okay, so

first of all, all you saw for the listening audience was extreme physical discomfort.

Like

she got the hands above the midline immediately.

He jumped in to save her.

Clearly, they both knew that she did not want to talk about primarily Chuck Schumer and that if that were to come up, he was going to run in to save save her.

He was a little asleep at the switch, so she got really uncomfortable.

She doesn't want to talk about it, which suggests she's going to do it.

Either that or a presidential run, I don't know, but for whatever reason, she really didn't want to talk about it and wasn't able to deftly handle it like any politician can when they get asked a question that they don't want to answer.

That's you know, a day ending in why that it should be.

Um, but on the subject of like why they're getting so upset about these media buys,

maybe this has something to do with it.

Um, I'm trying to find our pal Harry Enton.

He's on my very long sought list someplace.

I'm searching.

There we go.

Okay, SAP3.

I started on the wrong page.

Yeah, SOP3.

Maybe this has something to do with it.

You go back to April, Cape Baldwin, what were we looking at?

Well, we were looking at the Democrats with a very clear shot of taking control of the U.S.

House of Representatives according to the Calci prediction market odds.

We saw them at an 83% chance, but those odds have gone plummeting down.

Now we're talking about just a 63% chance, while the GOP's chances up like a rocket, up like gold, up from 17% to now a 37% chance.

Back to April.

Look at the generic congressional ballot.

What you see?

You see plus three Democrats in 2025 in April.

You see plus three Democrats back in April of 2017.

Now jump over to this side of the screen.

What happens?

Well, the Democrats are no longer keeping pace with the pace that they were setting back in 2017, 2018.

You look back in 2017, you saw that the Democrats had leaped up to an eight-point advantage.

I think a lot of folks like myself are looking at this.

We're seeing, hey, wait a minute.

Those national polls are Democrats are not gaining the way that we expected.

Then you add in the fact that the state legislators are adding potentially more GOP seats like they've already done down in Texas, like they've done in Missouri.

And then you add in the potential gutting of the VRA, and all of a sudden it becomes much more difficult for Democrats to gain.

So that's a long way of saying

they would like to blame the media for their newfound electoral problems.

It's got to be the evil media getting bought up by all these Republicans as opposed to us and our own messages that are tone deaf and off point and driving people away and have rendered the Democratic Party the worst thing one can be, which is totally uncool.

It's amazing to be in the position that they're in right now and not having a huge structural advantages, right?

Like the president always loses ground in the midterms.

It just, that's it's it's unless you are Bill Clinton and it's uh you're in the middle of an impeachment process in your second term, which sort of uh creates a boomerang effect.

It's and the averages are staggeringly high.

Donald Trump is a divisive, polarizing politician who,

you know, his numbers never go too low, but they never go too high either.

And he's been around for a long time, and there can be people who like him and they'll just have Trump fatigue enough already with all the craziness.

It's an incredibly favorable

atmosphere for which them to run, and they're doing this not greatly.

I think it's incredibly damning of where Democrats are.

You've got Trump fatigue, but you've also got resistance fatigue.

I think a lot of people are exhausted by the hyperbolic rhetoric about fascism is coming, even while you're seeing these somewhat controversial policies where the National Guard gets deployed in Illinois and you've got this No Kings Day response, and there's scenes of tear gas.

There are these scenes of people being grabbed up in

courthouses and various other places, but it's charged.

You would actually expect it to have more repercussions, perhaps to show up in the polling a little bit more.

The Democrats are not.

People are in favor of it.

They're not doing anything, and they are still losing ground.

It's very strange.

People are in favor of it.

And, you know,

the kind of those momentary scenes come and go.

I think one of the things you can't underestimate is that we saw a lot of polling about how Democrats and how Republicans, particularly young Democrats and Republicans, were moving away from Israel on when it came to foreign policy.

That ultimately doesn't matter when you see what happens with the hostages being released, Donald Trump speaking in front of the Knesset, world leaders praising him, everybody in Israel praising the man, by the way, who is, you know, he has dinner with Nick Fuentes is an anti-Semite, and there's a big image of him on the beach of Tel Aviv that he can see flying in on Air Force One.

I mean, God, these Jews in Israel have really misunderstood this anti-Semite that they're cheering at their gragghats.

It's like, I kind of trust them.

You know, I just such a bad anti-Semite.

Trump sucks at anti-Semitism.

Oh my God, he's the worst anti-Semite of all time in the way that he's not good at it.

Don't take that out of context, people.

But the thing about

you see, he's the worst anti-Semite.

Good Lord.

Flip that there.

Flip it there.

But no, the amazing thing to me is you have somebody on TV, and this pains me to say this, but you have AOC and Bernie Sanders, and Bernie is the guy that could do it.

AOC is the one who can't, because the first clip we saw of AOC is exactly why.

Is she going to run for president, et cetera?

She can't.

And the reason she can't is the thing that pains me to say is Americans, unfortunately for us libertarian types, They love economic populism.

They love this stuff.

And Marjorie Taylor Greene is talking about how we're kicking people off of healthcare.

And she's, you know, drifting away from even further away from that former version of like Reaganite conservatism, which was free market, et cetera.

But the problem is they're saddled by this cultural policy.

AOC cannot get away with it.

You see the Zoran Mondani doing like a run for Gaza, you know, on like October 8th or something and saying that, oh, I don't want to, this is not, I'm the mayor of New York.

It's like, you're running for Gaza.

Like, what?

You care about these issues.

These are issues that are not popular amongst like a broad swath of people because they're too extreme.

I mean, when she's talking about men and the toxicity and blah, blah, blah, you can't be president by it.

If you just did the Bernie thing, that is how Democrats could gain ground.

Harry would be showing different numbers.

Yeah.

And this, this plays up also to Virginia, right?

I mean, you have a gubernatorial race there that is now getting saddled with AOC-like culture war issues that it absolutely does not need to be.

It's a complete cell phone.

It's a complete cell phone.

It's not hard to say, no, I'm against this.

No, know you shouldn't like fantasize about the death of people and we shouldn't have um in uh high schools or junior high schools people who were born male in the female locker room that's not a hard straightforward did you guys see that setup that um the dems tried to do on winsom sears yesterday and it completely backfired on them so the democratic party of virginia tweeted out um at winsom earl sears saying Sears must call on these young Republicans implicated in the racist tech scandal to step down from their positions.

And Winston Sears retweeted it with a response that read, easy, they absolutely must step down.

Now it's your turn, Abigail.

I mean, just such a burn.

It was so good.

They did not see that colour.

Right?

So we're yelling that because Winsom is Jamaican like Camille.

So

I'm an American.

I was born here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But you know.

She nailed it.

And Abigail Spanberger has has still not withdrawn her endorsement of the

I love murdering Republican children, Jay Jones, but so make me attorney general.

Instead, the Democrats want to talk about these young Republicans and that text thread.

Okay.

Let's keep going.

I do want to get to Mom Dani.

That's coming up.

But since we touched on Democrat messaging and how they just kind of keep resorting to hysterics about Trump, like that.

like that's going to work.

They haven't learned that lesson either from 2024.

They had ratcheted up the fascism and the Hitler accusations.

I mean, 2-11.

They lost.

They're still at it.

Here's Bradley Whitford, who played top presidential aide on the West Wing.

And I'm telling you, it's like Yule Brenner.

We learned in American musical theater, the course I took when I was in 10th grade, that I made my high school boyfriend take with me.

And he was captain of the football team, and he never forgave me for making him sit through.

everything.

Westside story, the king and I.

It was wonderful.

Anywho, as we learned about Yule Brenner in that class, class, he got into like some temporary delusion after playing the king and the king and I, and like for a period, really thought he was the king.

And that

is what's happened to Bradley Whitford.

I'm sorry to tell you.

And he played a top presidential aide in the West Wing, and now he thinks he is a political expert.

He offered some of that expertise on the view yesterday, and obviously was cross-examined super hard by the fact-based Joy Behar.

Let's take a look at how that went in SOT 22.

And right now, public servants are under attack.

It's been politicized in a way that is unprecedented.

I am living in a world where we have internment camps,

where in my community, people are jumping out of vans and people going through a legal asylum process

are being taken away without charges.

And the thing that's very upsetting to me right now, and we're giving these internment camps funny names.

Yeah.

Like there's some fun

to be had in the inhumanity

of it all.

It's a very

strange time for me.

It's a disgrace, really.

It's a disgrace.

Yeah, it's a disgrace.

Okay.

So there are internment camps.

I mean, I didn't know that.

I thought Alligator Alcatraz was a place we were putting illegals who we were arresting and about to deport in a place where we could manage them humanely before they had to ship right on out of here.

Alligator Alley actually is, or Alcatraz is actually kind of nice compared to a lot of the prisons where they'd normally go, if you want to know the truth.

There's no internment camps here.

And the notion about as they're going through a legal asylum process, okay, in the same way Joe Biden can say, come on in, come on in, we may give you asylum, go through the process.

The next president can say, we're not going to.

Your process has ended.

Goodbye.

That is okay to do.

There is no obligation on the part of President Trump to see that through to the end.

He can make a summary decision.

Actually, I totally disagree with that policy.

We are not granting 10,000, 30,000 Haitians asylum.

After all, we have enough.

So

the rhetoric hasn't calmed down.

I'll give you one more and then I'll toss it to you guys.

Here it is, SAT 23.

Think about my dad a lot.

He died a long time ago.

He would be over

100 years old.

110.

He fought in World War II when fascism was on the rise.

He was

on a minesweeper with torpedoes coming at him.

He was Antifa.

He was Antifa.

Yes.

Oh, my God.

He would wear a frog costume and he'd be outside with a order.

Nice.

Your father would be in Portland.

I cannot shake this sense.

Like we, Megan, we love coming on the show.

We enjoy all of our various conversations.

You look like coming on.

No, there's no but.

There's no butt here.

We have agreements.

We've had sustained disagreements.

We've discussed all of these various policy choices that are being made, et cetera, et cetera.

What we try not to do in those conversations is engage in the kind of hysterics that he was engaging in.

The inflamed language, like everything is on 10.

Everything is the worst imaginable thing.

This episode of the Megan Kelly show

is actually an opportunity for Democrats.

Just watch this.

Just pay attention to what's being said here.

All of the things that you're doing that are harming, you don't have to do them.

You could make your counter arguments.

You could make your case without resorting to absolute absurd nonsense.

You don't think they know this?

I don't think they know it because they keep doing this, unless what they secretly want is for MAGA to win forever.

I am like offended by the frequency with which people abuse the historical record by saying things that like,

let's even be nice to them and say, you know, on

At this table, as you well know, Megan, we have a lot of disagreements with Trump and the the way he handles things, et cetera.

But the idea that this is fascism, that is something that I have been arguing against, and I get these emails all the time, such and such a bad things happen.

Oh, do you think it's fascism now?

No, I don't, as a matter of fact, because fascism was a very real thing.

And what they're trying to provoke is an idea of Adolf Hitler.

And I have a picture on my phone.

I was on the subway the other day because I'm a working class hero and I take the subway and get harassed by people people all the time.

And there was a woman across from me who had a button on that had a picture of Trump facing Hitler.

And it was just like this 65-year-old Upper East Side woman who had a picture of Hitler.

And it said, like, you know, continue the resistance.

I can show it to you.

I think I sent it to you guys.

This picture of it.

But this kind of rhetoric, internment camps, by the way, I wish the people of the view would have been asked the follow-up question.

What do you guys think of FDR?

A big fan of FDR?

How'd that go?

Who was responsible for the internment camps?

We got an idea into our heads.

It was FDR.

It was Trump.

But this idea that we're at fascism, where you can say that there are authoritarian instincts, fine.

Fascism is a very distinct thing.

And I think it's an insult to all of the people that survived fascism, that actually fought real fascism, paid with their lives.

And this, the comparison is not even in the same universe.

And I think

Trump is a lot like Hitler.

It's just that he's saving the Jews instead of killing them.

But other than that, they're the same.

But it's a big both agree.

Yeah, yeah.

Get them all in one place.

That's what he's saying.

Right.

But he's, he's, I mean, he would save six million if he could.

That's how much of a fascist he is.

That's, it really is looking in the mirror image of Hitler.

He's trying to save all those Jewish lives and make Israel a safe place for decades.

And that's why we have to wear buttons condemning him.

Hold on, there's one more that we have to play, according to my team.

Oh, yeah.

Do we really?

I'm so over him.

Yeah, we do.

I'm not going to do it.

I don't know who it is, but we do.

All right.

I'll do it.

He does this all the time, SAT20.

The original no-king's protest was 250 years ago.

Americans decided they didn't want to live under the rule of King George III.

They declared their independence and fought a bloody war for democracy.

We've had two and a half centuries of democracy since then, often challenging, sometimes messy, always essential.

And we've fought in two world wars to preserve it.

Now we have a would-be king who wants to take it away, King Donald I.

Fuck that.

Why does he think it's going to work this time?

I'm glad that

we like 1776 again, right?

Because

we had a whole like five-year span there where that wasn't the real founding of the country.

The real founding is when we started slavery here and all politics has been downstream from that.

And 1776 was a hypocritical lie, and we never really meant it.

And just look at all those slaveholders who did X, Y, and Z.

The Revolutionary War is awesome.

The Declaration of Independence is awesome.

I hope everyone's got semi-quincentennial fever as much as I do.

And I'm not unhappy at all that they're calling their protest no kings.

I don't like kings either.

And if that's getting you back in touch with your 1776-ness, if, for example, you would from this lesson that, hey, maybe my party has the presidency, we will also give the president less power because then he will abuse it in ways that George Washington wouldn't have liked.

I would love that to be a conclusion.

It's not going to be a conclusion at all.

But I will take baby steps towards the direction of actually being happy and proud of the American founding and trying to be rejuvenated by it.

I think we all

heard the Democrats tout the First Amendment as much as they did in the wake of Kimmel.

So great.

And, you know,

it does support the theory that

they have to have it done to them in order for them to get back in line on our shared common principles, like free speech.

But wait, I want to read you what Trump said about these no-kings.

So the audience knows these Democrats are organizing these left-wing groups like the ACLU and MoveOn.org and human rights campaign are organizing these no-kings protests.

They tried to do it in June.

They had about 1,700.

Now they're doing it again.

They have about 2,200 people across the country having these rallies.

I just hope they keep their clothes on.

We've seen some like Portland where they're naked on but naked on bike.

I was just going to say that that's got dangers

in Portland.

Yes,

that's dangerous for both sides.

Like there's no good outcome for women or men in going naked on a bike.

Okay.

But here's what Trump says.

A huge thank you to all the no kings protesters yesterday.

I was very concerned a king was trying to take my place.

But thanks to your tireless efforts, I am still your president.

Great job, all

that is incredibly funny.

But to Matt's point, I get a really, really important point of that, particularly going through that whole kind of 1619 era,

which was a long era for people who live in certain states and went to certain universities, that this idea that America has been one long, interrupted, uninterrupted string of indignities and horrors visited upon X group, the love of the country, that everything has been great, according to Robert De Niro, until now it's like, good Lord, that's like a Paul Johnson version of American history rather than a Noam Chomsky one.

And just one small point, we didn't save democracy in World War I.

We shouldn't have been there.

That was a big mistake.

But World War II was great, but big mistake in World War I.

But getting back to that idea that there's something worth saving, but the problem is they don't believe any of this shit.

And the second it's no longer relevant to the points, the protests they're having, the points that they're making,

they're going to go back to saying that this country has that original sin and it can never get beyond it, which is the thing that frustrates.

I've got to play now, Katanji Brown Jackson, from the Supreme Court argument yesterday.

I don't know if you guys watched any of this, but there was a very good update in our morning update, our AM update show today on what happened at SCOTUS yesterday.

And if you haven't listened to that, I highly recommend to take three minutes of your time to listen to that piece of the show, which is only 15 minutes long to begin with.

But long, long story short on this case that was just argued yesterday, comes out of Louisiana.

Louisiana has six representatives.

They had one district that was majority black, and there was a lawsuit saying somehow that's racist.

We're one-third of the population in Louisiana, said a bunch of black complainants, and we shouldn't only have one district.

This is illegal race discrimination under the Voting Rights Act.

That case wound its way up.

The courts said, you know what, this is racist.

You have to create another district.

So they created two, two majority black districts in Louisiana.

Then non-black, which I guess is just everybody who's white or Hispanic or Asian, whatever, non-black complainants filed their own lawsuit saying, this is bullshit.

Why did we create a second district just for black people?

There's nothing wrong with the way we did it before.

And it's basically like, to me, I read it as Republicans being like, hey, if we want to gerrymander, we can gerrymander.

You can't gerrymander it based on race, but you can certainly do it based on politics.

The Democrats are the ones who taught us that.

So, long story short, it goes up to the Supreme Court.

They hear an argument last spring, but then they held their opinion and they said, let's reargue it with some additional constitutional provisions addressed, not just the Voting Rights Act.

Let's talk about the 14th Amendment.

Let's talk about the 15th Amendment.

Try to convince us whether this scheme can stand

under those tests.

So, they went back before the Supreme Court yesterday, both sides, and now it's Louisiana and the non-white complainants and the Trump administration on one side, and it's the

non-black complainants, and it's the black complainants on the other side, right?

Well, along with like the ACLU and all these other groups who say this is racist, racist, racist.

So

that's the argument in a nutshell.

Was Louisiana right to create a second district that's just black majority because somebody said Voting Rights Act, this is discrimination because there are more blacks in the state than

appear to be represented, assuming that they mostly vote Dem in Louisiana in this

district-wide lines.

These lines, it's not going to go the way of the black complainants.

It's going to go Louisiana's way.

That seems really clear.

The Supreme Court seemed very much ready to side with the Trump administration in Louisiana and say, this is bullshit.

This looks like politics, not racism.

And there's a difference.

But here is Katanji Brown Jackson swooping in to try to rescue this scheme by comparing black people today in 2025 America to disabled Americans

who had absolutely no facilities made available to them prior to the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Listen.

And my kind of paradigmatic example of this is something like the ADA.

Congress passed the Americans with Disabilities Act against the backdrop of a world that was generally not accessible to people with disabilities.

And so it was discriminatory in effect.

Congress said the facilities have to be made equally open to people with disabilities if readily possible.

I guess I don't understand why that's not what's happening here.

The idea in Section 2 is that we are responding to current day manifestations of past and present decisions that disadvantage minorities and make it so that they don't have equal access to the voting system, right?

They're disabled.

Disabled.

So 2025 America, the irony of this being a black woman sitting on the Supreme Court of the United States, comparing herself to basically disabled people 50 years ago who who couldn't get into any building because none of them had ramps.

There's been no progress.

We're really back where we were.

Everything's racist, and therefore we can't change anything because we're basically still in the Jim Crow South.

Yeah, I mean, they're virtually obliged to make an argumental.

Why are you looking at Camille, Moynihan?

Because he's disabled, and I feel bad.

And he asked me to.

Just give it a try.

I think that that the original sin here, like of all of this, and I find it genuinely fascinating, is that there is this racial essentialist

philosophical commitment in the law.

It's baked into the law.

The reason everyone is always, well, have we done enough here?

Is it time to sunset these laws?

It's because everyone knows that this sort of affirmative discrimination or affirmative bias in the law, whether you're discriminating against people because you you dislike them or because you want to help them, it is antithetical to the principle of equality under the law.

It is antithetical.

They're at odds.

We're trying to remedy some past harm by making the law do something that we know is at odds with the spirit of the Constitution.

And as a result, the argument she has to level is, well, no, no, I mean, we just haven't done enough yet.

I mean,

they're basically just children.

We need to help them.

And in her case, Supreme Court Justice essentially making an argument because she self-identifies this way, you need to help us.

Like you haven't done enough for me.

I find the entire thing pretty obscene, but I also think we're uncovering something here.

And to the extent that there is a correction here that's being made by the Supreme Court, and we've seen a number of rulings along these lines that suggest that people are well past this.

Even in California, they've managed to knock down affirmative action efforts there.

People want equality under the law.

They prefer that to equity.

Like this, in in many respects, is the crux of the debates and some of the arguments that we were having back in 2020, 2021, when the Black Lives Matter was ascendant.

Do we want a country where everyone is treated the same way?

Or do we want a country where we designate you disadvantaged or advantaged, and then we prioritize you under the law so that we can level the playing field and turn America into Harrison Bergeron?

And I know which one of those things is attractive to me.

It's unfortunate that Katanji Brown Jackson and so many other people are stuck in this out-moded way of thinking.

It is entirely possible to address people's needs without imagining that all of us who happen to have a particular hue in our skin are categorically disadvantaged, or that everyone who is a little lighter is categorically advantaged.

It is obnoxious.

It is wrong.

It is an abject falsehood that we should be all looking to move beyond.

And I'm happy we're having some of these disagreements.

I hope that we have them in like substantive enough ways for people to actually understand what's happening here.

No one wants discrimination except for the people who are advocating for discrimination openly.

And whether they're advocating for it, because you want to help people or not, doesn't matter.

It is still discrimination.

Yeah, that is like Chief Justice Roberts says: the answer to dividing us by race is not more dividing us by race.

The answer to past discrimination is not more discrimination, contrary to what Ibram X.

Kendi says.

A fact check on something I said a minute ago: that Trump no King's post was not real.

I got fooled by the by the internets.

That's sad.

It sounded like him, as the best fake tweets will lead you to believe that it's real.

It sounded like him.

But in any event, well said, Camille, and we'll now await the decision because part of what that Harry Enton clip we played was referring to was if the Supreme Court does find in favor of Louisiana, this could lead to a redistricting in a number of states that actually could cost the Democrats a number of seats.

The number I heard was as many as seven potentially.

And so it really would matter electorally.

It's kind of funny to me how the Republicans essentially are saying,

we are gerrymandering, but not on race, based on politics.

We're not trying to keep down blacks, just Democrats.

And everybody's kind of like, yeah, that's a thing we're all really familiar with.

The Democrats do it to the Republicans and vice versa.

Okay, we're going to take a quick pause and then when we come back, we have to do Mom Donnie.

And then I have a special treat for you boys.

And that's all I'm going to say for now.

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The guys from the fifth column are back with me.

Zoram Mamdani seems poised easily to win this mayoral race, which is depressing because he gives answers like this when asked very straightforward questions on Fox News by the very talented Martha McCallum, SAT4.

If you are asked tomorrow night, if you give credit to President Trump for the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas and the return of the 20 living hostages, would you raise your hand?

When it comes to the ceasefire, I am thankful.

and I have hope that it will actually endure and that it will be lasting.

And I continue to have concerns because I've seen reports still, just this in the last few days, that five Palestinians were killed by the Israeli military.

And that's what gives me pause about issuing any kind of of praise or celebration at a moment when it is still so in its infancy.

And what I will tell you is that in that same moment, it is also one that requires a focus on ensuring that that hope, that belief in a better future is one that is emblematic in our policies right here in New York City as well.

And that's what we're hoping to lead with Willard.

Would you give President Trump credit or not, to any extent, credit or not?

I think it's too early to do so.

Too early to say so.

But if it proves to be something that is lasting, something that is durable, then I think that that's where you give credit.

You're an asshole.

We have fucking 120 hostages are free.

Don't be such a dick.

I'm sorry, but like 20 hostages are free.

What do you mean it's too early?

Today's the day.

Why is he doing that?

Why?

Because he doesn't want to answer the question.

I mean, your point is right.

I mean, he's an asshole because, I mean, we say, well, if it's lasting, if anybody watched those scenes on, I believe it was Monday night, and I stayed up to watch my hat.

It was, you know, they were being released at 9 a.m.

in Israel and it was like unbearable to watch it because it was so happy and so depressing and because you know you have people who of 28 bodies that didn't come back I mean I think eight did and one wasn't even

Palestinian and it was in like to watch all of that in the families and the joy and the the heartbreak was un unbelievable and unbearable almost to watch but it was a happy joyous moment and if you can't share in that joy something's really wrong with you

You know, you had Zoran Mamdani's wife, and I don't blame him for his wife's politics, but posting something on Instagram,

you know, mourning the death of this Hamas operative, which who is called Mr.

Fafo.

If you've been following this, you know who he is.

Yes, yes.

He celebrated 10.7.

Yeah, he celebrated 10.7.

There's a video of him joyous on that day.

And who was killed by other Palestinians?

What Mamdani says, five people were killed by Israel since the ceasefire.

I don't know who those people are.

I don't know if that's right, if they were fighters, if they were raising guns to people.

But there's lots and lots of video online that anyone can open their eyes and see of Palestinians being killed by Hamas.

And the Wall Street Journal an incredible story, a really deeply reported story yesterday on the front page of the Wall Street Journal.

of what has happened since Hamas has not been fully disarmed.

And, you know, Trump's response to that, which was a great one, is if you don't, the word we is what he used.

He said, if you don't disarm, we are going to do it.

So you better be smart about this, which was like...

Trump did actually say that one, unlike my tweet.

He actually did say that.

They will be disarming.

Hamas will be disarming.

Or we will disarm them.

Let me give you a second.

Zoram Mamdani soundbite on this exact front.

She asked a very good question here in SAT5.

So you've denounced Israel and the United States for the response to the slaughter on October the 7th.

In fact, at times you've called it a lasting stain, the response, and at times you have left October 7th out of your statements completely around this issue.

You just talked about Israelis killing some Palestinians, but Hamas is killing Palestinians within Gaza.

And they have not returned the bodies that they promised to return, including two Americans.

So what is your response to what Hamas is doing now?

I think those are bodies and remains that should absolutely be returned.

And I think that I have no issue with critiquing Hamas or the Israeli government because my critiques all come from a place of universal human rights.

And my focus, however, is right here in New York City and transforming the most expensive.

Do you believe that Hamas should lay down their weapons and leave the leadership in Gaza?

I believe that any future here in New York City is one that we have to make sure that's affordable for all and as it pertains to Israel and Palestine, that we have to ensure that there is peace.

And that is the future that we have to fight for.

But you won't say that Hamas should lay down their arms and give up leadership in Gaza.

I don't really have opinions about the future of Hamas and Israel beyond the question of justice and safety and the fact that anything has to abide by international law.

Absolutely.

It's separate from justice and safety.

But by the way, I mean,

the idea that he hasn't made any comments about the future of the region is

a provable, demonstrable law.

On a daily basis.

On a daily basis.

On Instagram and in comments.

But if you cannot say, and I'm sorry, this city is the city that that I live in, the city that I love dearly, it is not the Middle East.

But if you say, well, I make comments all the time, but I'm not going to make one right now, by the way.

I will say things about Hamas, but I'm not going to say it right now.

If you cannot say that this is a knuckle-dragging death cult that murders Jews and enshrined in their charter is the elimination of the state of Israel, and if you cannot denounce that, I don't think you should be mayor of this city and I don't think that's a crazy opinion.

And not just murders, Jews.

I totally agree.

Murders Palestinians just

a vector.

Anyone non-Hamas is potentially in danger.

No, it's terrifying.

Cuomo is within like 10 or 11 points of him, according to the latest poll, but he would need Sliwa to drop out the Republican, and he would have to be banking on Sliwa's 15% to all go to Andrew Cuomo, which is a big question, Mark, because I think I speak for all Republicans when I say we can't stand Andrew Cuomo and we don't want to help him, but we also want to stop Zoram Mamdani, so it's very hard.

Say it again.

He should keep his promise to come on the fifth call call and stop punting.

Yeah.

Oh, good.

Andrew Corbyn.

Yes.

Scheduled interviews

in the making.

Will you do me a favor?

Do me a favor.

If that does wind up happening, would one of you guys just call me beforehand?

Just let's just have a conversation beforehand.

No, no, we want it to happen.

So please don't say this on the air.

We will call you, but don't say that.

I'm only going to say good luck and have a great time.

That's all I want to say to you.

All right.

Before we go, we have to do something lighter that I really wanted to bring to you.

You may or may not be aware because you focus on a lot of things on the fifth column.

You have a lot of things that you need to report on.

But in 2021, something dramatic happened over at Victoria's Secret.

And you probably missed it, but I'm just going to tell you how this went down.

But the headline from the New York Times was, Victoria's Secret swaps angels for, quote, what women want.

Will they buy it?

The Victoria's Secret angels, those avatars of Barbie bodies and playboy reverie, are gone.

Their wings, fluttery confections of rhinestones and feathers that could weigh almost 30 pounds, are gathering dust and storage.

The fantasy bra dangling real diamonds and other gems is no more.

In their place, seven women famous for their achievements and not

their proportions.

They include,

well, I'm going to show you in a minute.

Don't put it up yet, Deb.

I'll show you in one second who it included.

And these women that they selected, quote, will be spearheading what may be the most extreme and unabashed attempt at a brand turnaround in recent memory, an effort to redefine the version of sexy that Victoria's Secret represents and sells to the masses.

Here was the woman leading the charge.

Yes,

Megan Rapino,

lover of all things trans.

That's what we got.

Instead of the angels, we also got the plus-sized model.

We were told we needed to celebrate body inclusivity.

So advocate Paloma

El Sesser,

she was there.

Here she is in the middle.

She's a little, you know, a little hefty, not too big, but this is what they wanted you to admire and whatever else you do when you look at the Victoria's Secret models instead of

girls in the wings.

I admire you,

Kelly.

I'm just, whatever you do to your own private time, it's up to you.

And so that was the question.

Will this effort spearheaded by these women who were not only going to participate in the campaigns, but going to be advisors?

They were going to be advising.

Megan Rapino was going to advise Victoria's Secret on what beauty means and how to turn around the Victoria's Secret brand.

So they were spearheading the most extreme and unabashed attempt at a brand turnaround in recent memory: an attempt to redefine the version of sexy that they'd been going with.

Well, they just had the latest Victoria's Secret show,

and let's see how that went.

Huh.

You're back.

Angels.

Angels are back.

Let's go.

Angels, the 30-pound wings.

Yeah.

10-foot-tall women with the rocket rocket

bodies.

Yeah.

The tans.

Yeah.

No fat.

You're pictorial for the accomplishment.

Sorry.

So you're shocked.

Shocked that it didn't work.

Are you demanding more, Megan?

Rapino, please walk me through your thoughts.

Megan, I don't want you to put me on the spot like this because, as I said earlier, I love all women and I have to empower them.

But I think that these women are really doing a job of empowering women that the other ones couldn't.

I don't know why,

but they

something intangible.

I think like I saw the second girl, her novel was incredible.

Did you read her novel?

Second girl before?

Oh, it was in Russian, but like, I think it's in translation now, but it's amazing.

And the other.

I spent a lot of time, a lot of time with it.

The great, it's only a man could do this, not that.

Only a man could say the thing at the beginning is that we are going to do things for women.

We're going to put women out on the catwalk for women.

Have you ever seen a woman's Instagram feed?

It's all hot women.

I'm like, what is it?

It's all beautiful women.

And granted, it's who you are following on Instagram.

Yes, because I think that I'm not sure.

We don't want to look at Megan Rapino any more than a man does.

Nobody wants to look at her.

I'm sorry.

That's just the way it is.

Literally, nobody wants to look at Megan Rapino.

And everyone, male and female, if they have eyes, would like to look at those Victoria Secret angels and say, hashtag goals.

The goals are different, but they're there for both of us.

And somebody figured that out.

I mean,

because, you know, these women are fine, but I only have an eye for one woman.

My wife is just

over it.

But they're fine.

Yeah.

They're doing fine.

Look at them.

I applaud them.

I want to have a universalist thing, too, at the end and say that I have an eye for all women.

Yes.

And it's obvious when I'm in a room room.

I mean, I'm very respectful and not only

of their achievements.

Yes.

You've got, can you guys indulge me literally just three extra minutes?

I know I do this to you all the time.

I promise I will have you out of here by the top of the hour, but I've got to go over this other piece of this story, and you are the perfect guest for it.

There

was a report on CNN just a couple of days ago that the headline of which is as follows: After years of progress on gender, the male gaze is back.

Gaze.

Progress on gender.

Gaze, as in G-A-Z-E.

Yeah, the male gaze have always been around.

They did not go away.

The male gaze were always there, CNN.

No.

And this, okay, so written by somebody named Madeline Holcomb, writer for CNN Wellness.

And here is what she writes.

In the past decade, I saw the evidence of progress in my media diet.

The movies, the shows, the books, the advertisements I consumed were increasingly giving women a seat at the table.

Heroin chic fell away, and body positivity entered the fashion world.

Stories about a woman stealing your man were traded for celebration of the girl's girl who resisted the competition for men's attention.

It seemed like women were taking a deeper breath with such heavy cultural restrictions.

And then there was a shift.

The recent rise of weight loss medications.

It coincided with social media influencers sharing ways to get smaller and no longer celebrating bodies of all sizes.

Advertisements followed suit, making men's desire once again a dominating factor in how stories are told and how women are portrayed.

The culprit I have learned is the male gaze.

It's the gaze.

They get blamed for everything.

It was always there.

But now it has stepped back into the spotlight.

The male gaze came roaring back this summer.

The Sidney Sweeney ad she mentions, another beauty campaign that was led by somebody hot.

And this year saw viral content around the OnlyFan lunatic who wanted to break the world record for most sexual partners.

Somehow that's part of, what, Republicanism and their desire to bring back what is normal male behavior.

If you are observing women in movies, TV, fashion, social media, and marketing, and they don't feel as fully materialized as their male counterparts.

That

is the male gaze.

That's the male gaze.

The woman's value is reduced insofar as existing for pleasure or basically to be an object, says the Loyola University of Chicago Quinlan School of Business professor.

They quote, and then just a bit more, and I'll give it to you boys.

It's bond girls and a long, lingering shot panning up a woman's body in an advertisement for soda.

You're looking at Cindy Crawford, clearly.

It's when an action movie accessory is running through explosions in tiny shorts and flowing curl.

Every man is enjoying these images in their head right now.

That's the way life works.

Flowing curled hair before collapsing helplessly in the hero's arms and a social media star making a recipe while all dolled up and explaining her steps in a soft, sultry voice.

Okay, so that's her theory.

By the way, you won't be surprised to learn she later reveals that the prevailing perspective in stories, art, and advertising is not just male, but white.

And all of this makes those who don't align with those identities have less power.

It's disempowering.

She feels unmaterialized.

I feel Hallie Berry.

Do you remember that Vond girl, the one that was like 350 pounds?

Like running across the team with the Bond guy?

Do you remember when James Bond was 350 pounds?

I would take all of this more seriously if they were advocating for me.

Like, how, what about how I feel every time I see Henry Cavill or The Rock or something get cast and something, and they're just focused on their abs?

Like, how does that make me feel?

Have you seen a fat guy with his shirt off on a cover of a magazine?

Yeah, I've seen,

I've seen very big women.

Who?

Seen who?

Have you ever seen a fat guy with his shirt off on the cover of a man's health in like this must have been like a chris farley yeah but like it's a it's a laugh line it's like john candy it's like a laugh line and it's like there was that moment which she uh laments um i do not lament that moment where the sports illustrated uh swimsuit issue like minimum was like 500 pounds yeah minimum yeah it was like the baseline and like missing a limb it was everything you couldn't just

And then I was just like, oh,

you must share my fetish.

Looking for the hot fetish, which I'm not interested in.

No, and they were literally putting transvestites or transsexual, like men posing as women.

You're like people with penises in the sports illustrated swimsuit model.

And now if you don't like that, that's because you're, I guess, part of the problem.

White, male,

and empowered.

Has failed.

I mean, Victoria's Secret reverts to the wings.

The Sports Illustrated swimsuit model puts swimsuits.

back.

Playboy went like nudity.

Non-nudity for like a hot couple.

They were like, what are we doing?

Why are we allowed?

Who are we?

In an Irish bar not serving whiskey.

It's not going to be

these companies aren't making money anymore because like no one, if it was an actual money-making concern, would just like throw all that money off the table.

But the best, but the best example of this, of the failure of this kind of ideology that was forced on us, the market was not deciding here.

Progress on gender.

Yeah, progress on gender.

amazing

and by the way i just want to stop looking

to the listeners of uh the megan kelly show the viewers of megan kelly show that through all that period i heroically as a dissident kept on gazing at women and no one stopped me i was like look there's a hot girl

not even is this a story about another surreptitious subway picture you took oh which one

at first you're photographing the woman's button but really what else is on that camera Roll?

This is for sorry.

But honestly, like all of this is, it's not totally unrelated to the AOC clip we started the show with, right?

Like they tried to beat maleness out of men for years.

They tried to tell you you were toxic in your masculinity if you wanted to look at the beautiful angels.

And every man alive knew that was a lie.

Right.

And also that you were a collaborationist if you were a female who appreciates female beauty too which wait wait matt she writes this she says

i'll let you finish she writes women sometimes turn the male gaze on one another it happens when they objectify themselves promote traditional gender roles as the ideal way of living and or enforce beauty standards for others that see you're so you're right

that's internalized racism of gender right yeah it's the same it's the same idea internalized misogyny internalized misogyny i've been accused of that many times i hate i hate myself and I hate women.

And that's why I have to rip on women.

By the way, well, I'm an equal opportunity offender.

I have plenty of men I've ripped to shreds.

The evidence will speak for itself.

It's exactly true.

Megan doesn't hate women.

She just hates lots of women.

And it's not because they're women.

It's because they're idiots.

But it's true.

My daughter was watching this supermodel documentary on like Apple Plus or something, which was great.

I was really interested in it.

Oh, the music they were supporting.

Support dad.

And support.

I'm like, I want to support you and sit here and watch and don't talk to me during it.

Go to your room.

Head by.

But the funny thing about this, to your point,

who is responsible for this, it is actually the male gaze, YS, because it was just all the people doing these fashions.

It was all gay men doing this.

And it's like in deep down inside, they're still men.

They're still men.

A little bit.

It's like, I'm a diabetic.

I still produce a little insulin.

You know, there's a bit left.

They're like, we know how, you know what they want.

And so so the male gaze and the male gaze, it's both

a problem.

Wow.

Yeah.

The projection.

I support them.

The amount of projection in our politics.

They are puritanical in the extreme.

Trying to police your desires.

You are not allowed to like.

They are not.

It's not.

You will like Megan Rapinoe.

Yeah, no, what a failed project.

Do you like this?

I'm like, no, I am not going to like this.

We film this here in Soho, and it is a challenge to walk two blocks in Soho because of my male gaze.

It's actually true.

It's like I walk in a studio, I walk into potholes.

I'm like walking.

Right.

And not far away in Chelsea, it is a problem to walk because of the male gaze, too.

I mean, it's.

Yeah, but that's the time when I feel good, Megan.

Because the male gaze.

This is a funny story.

Doug and I lived in Chelsea when we first got married.

And it was like, I had an apartment and we both moved in there.

And he was living in a different place altogether.

But anyway, we moved into Chelsea.

And at the time, I had two little shihhtsus.

And after they went to the groomer, they'd get like the little bows in their hair.

You know, they look very sort of frou-frou.

And Doug, being a great guy, he would walk the dogs.

You know, I wasn't always the one who walked them.

He would walk them too.

And one day he came home and he goes, New rule.

He goes,

No more hot pink poop bags for the dogs.

It's chuffing up out there.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Hey there, Doug.

I mean, dog walking to Kelsey is going to be a problem.

Doug is a problem, but it's not, I mean, the thing is, as a man, when you're on the other end of that, because, you know, women don't, you know, really do it to that in a bit, but when men do it to you, you're like, oh, that's pretty, that's pretty cool.

Because,

you know, it makes me a little like it.

It depends on how

it makes the fuck up at all.

I don't think Doug enjoyed it.

I think he was against it, and he was kind of relieved when we moved to the Upper West Side, where we just got harassed by Greenpeace.

Totally different story.

I do want to say one other.

One other real connection that this story, because this is obviously she's a lunatic, this person, but

did you see the news that NBC laid off some 150 staffers and they're all from the DEI department?

Like the

not just, you know, yeah, like the pride department and the DEI department, basically all that, the gender and the race people who are enforcing the gender and the race rules over at NBC.

And we're seeing that at company after company after company.

But obviously the NBC one jumped out at me because I thought they were super non-racist and super pro-pride and super all the and like all this shows is they were lying all along.

They've all been lying all along.

They hired these people because they were threatened by BLM and the human rights campaign.

And it's all coming down.

The house of cards is coming down around us.

Every day there's another article about how

there's been mass layoffs at a company and it's all the DEI people.

And this is so promising because

the more of this that happens, I'm sorry for anybody to lose their job, but I totally don't believe in this job.

So that's where my comments come from.

The more of this that happens, the more likely we're going to see a world in which they eliminate that fake major at all of these top Ivy League colleges where you can major in like whatever gender studies or DEI is probably now itself a major.

And therefore people won't be funneled into this fake profession and be living their lives around race essentialism or gender essentialism or whatever it is.

So it's a very good sign.

That layoff at NBC, as much as I do feel for people losing their jobs, is a very positive sign.

As is the news, we haven't gotten into it this week, but the news about

the young college-age students no longer identifying with anything other than male or female.

Like

they're saying goodbye to non-binary and trans identities.

It was at like 9%

at places like Andover Prep School and Columbia University.

And now it's fallen to 3%.

Like it's way down.

So the incoming freshman class is far less.

And even bisexual is going by the wayside.

Their heterosexual numbers have gone up.

The male gays have stayed the same.

The female lesbians have stayed the same.

But hetero is going up and

bias going down.

And then over on the gender front, non-binary and trans are way down.

The freshman class is far more, forgive me, normal than the senior class at these universities and even high schools are.

And that's yet another reason to celebrate.

Thank God, right?

But unfortunately, that fad cost a lot of people very, very dearly.

So it's sad what they've been put through by a disgusting, corrupt medical system.

But I see all of this as a reason to be optimistic and hopeful.

How about you guys?

Yeah,

a lot of people who I know were really allergic to the analysis that some of those numbers, that spike number of people self-identifying in middle school, in high school as non-binary or

whatever,

say this is social contagion.

And I would say this because I have a 17-year-old daughter and I saw her circles like suddenly everybody was non-binary, was a lesbian, was like a member of the, and just look at them like, I've known you your whole life.

You are so not.

trust me I know this this was this was a social contagion moment and people are allergic to that because they think that there's it's all about a negative association with the underlying condition which I don't have any negative feeling towards people who expressing who they actually are or identifying as they actually are that is fine what I have uh I don't have a warm feeling about is like peer pressure on 13 year olds to get rewarded for being marginalized into an identity that they don't actually have and that took place and there were some dire consequences for some people as part of that.

But one of the things, one of the reasons you see these numbers going down is, you know, obviously the culture changes, but the reward system changes.

And there, I mean, when you are a white guy who

has, you know, no dog in this fight,

in these kind of sweepstakes, you don't, well, I, as a black, this, that, when you're just like a white guy, you could choose non-binary because it was meaningless, right?

And that, and there was some, there was some reward to that.

You, well, I'm a non-binary person and everybody wanted to get involved in that.

I saw this close up of saying like, you know, well, I don't use those pronouns.

And it's like,

they look, there's no indication physically, the way they dress, that they are anything but the gender that they actually are.

They got a little extra credit.

They got a little extra credit for that.

And when you take the credit away, it's much like the DEI stuff in,

you know, at NBC.

We talked about this on the show the other day, Megan, about, you know, what you, I talked, oh, you know who I talked about this with?

Your brilliant, brilliant producer, Steve Krakauer, who was on the Moynihan Report two days ago, I think two days ago.

And Steve was making a great point.

And we had a conversation about these shows, right?

These, these Jimmy Kimmel shows, they cost, you know, $300 million to make.

And they have a fraction of the viewers of like the Megan Kelly show.

And, you know, Steve making the point that they'll be picking these things out.

I mean, if they're smart, these very, very low production costs, because they're losing money.

And, but what is the first thing you do when you're at NBC?

And you're like, okay, we're losing money because we're spending a bazillion dollars on all these late night shows, these other shows that don't make money.

And you have a department of 130 people who do nothing.

but kind of wag their finger.

I mean, the market is deciding there that these are the first people you can find.

And if they produce content, as in Vice, where Michael used to work, the content they produce is so hysterically unpopular, you cannot believe the numbers.

Yeah, which I outlined in my piece for the free press about when I got a hold because nobody ever had the numbers of which pieces online performed well.

The YouTube stuff, you could see that all those numbers were juiced.

But I got an Excel spreadsheet of which pieces performed well.

Someone gave it to me.

And I wrote about it in that piece.

And all the ones of, you know, Gwen Stefani is problematic because she wore a bindy or things like that.

It was absolute rock bottom.

And to Megan's point, that nobody believes this, I also wrote about in that piece, people that I saw on calls speaking in this insane language.

And then I would speak to them two hours later, they'd be like, Oh, yeah, that's ridiculous.

I don't believe any of this.

Oh, my God.

That's crazy.

It actually happened.

It happened to me.

The house of cards is falling.

You can feel it.

You see it every day in the paper, online, on X, a new report of some company eliminating this department altogether.

Next up, we have to do the majors in the colleges so these people aren't misdirected for an entire four years plus in getting an education.

They could actually, you know, either skip college or get like a real, a real major that might actually prepare you for life.

Not that.

And I'm super encouraged by it.

I really think there's a lot of reason to hope, notwithstanding that more on AOC and her backward messaging on where we allegedly are.

I love you guys.

Thanks for sticking around late.

And it did take longer than three minutes.

I apologize.

Great to see you.

I love it.

All right.

Thank you so much.

Bye, guys.

Love them.

It's always such a great day when the fifth column comes on.

You can talk about anything.

I mean, it's wonderful to have a guest, a group of guests who can talk about anything.

Not everybody can go in depth on, you know, Gaza, politics, culture, and Victoria's Secret.

And funny as hell, all three of them make me laugh every time they're on.

Okay, tomorrow, another favorite guest, VDH, is here.

We will see you then.

Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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