Cuomo's Failed Zohran Strategy, Platner Oppo Dump, and KJP's Only Line, with Mark Halperin, Sean Spicer, and Dan Turrentine | Ep. 1177

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Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show.

We've got a lot of big political news today, less than two weeks out from Election Day, where we will start to see what voters are thinking so far in the first year of Trump 2.0.

In Virginia, the fallout from Democratic Attorney General candidate Jay Jones' shocking texts endorsing murder of Republicans and their children continues to impact the race.

That one's getting really interesting. Jones plummeting in the polls, but it's still close, which tells you something.

And of course, in New York City, where Democratic socialist Zoran Mamdani retains a commanding lead over former Democrat-turned independent candidate Andrew Cuomo, Polymarket now has Mamdani with a 94% chance of winning.

94. Cuomo Mamdani and Republican Curtis Liwa, who is holding strong despite massive pressure for him to drop out.
And by holding strong, I mean against the pressure. His numbers are not great.

They're all back on the debate stage tonight. We're going to get into all of this.
Mark Halperin is the host of Next Up with Mark Halperin on the MK Media Podcast Network.

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It's going to be fun. Journey Mark on the show today, his co-hosts on Two Ways, The Morning Meeting, Sean Spicer and Dan Turrentine.

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Guys, welcome back. I'm looking forward to this debate tonight.
I mean,

I'm an expat from New York, so that makes sense to, you know, for me to be interested. Do you think the country is

riveted by the Momdani Cuomo battle? Like, what's your read on it? Mark, I'll start with you.

I think a political class is riveted because a lot's at stake for defining the Democratic Party.

Mondami, I think if he wins, has the potential to be, as the Republicans would like him to be, the face of the Democratic Party. And it's really going to divide the Democrats.

We still haven't seen Chuck Schumer or

Hakeem Jeffries endorse, although I think Jeffries is going to endorse Mondami. And so most of the party will have bought into the notion that this should be the person who's mayor of New York City.

And anyone who cares about the fight to define both parties, but particularly the Democrats, I think is pretty riveted by this.

I mean, I've got my doubt, but I think you're right about that face of the party. Yeah, go ahead, Sean.
Yeah, if you, if you just,

I found this out earlier today. If you actually watch that debate and then you're ever convicted of a crime, you get time served Because I think this is the biggest waste of time tonight.

Mondami is the next mayor of New York City unless and until the only thing that might change that is if Sliwa were to not only endorse Cuomo, but to make a pact where he says, I am going to be part of a Cuomo administration and serve as Mark said the other day, you know, deputy mayor for cats or all species.

Barring that, Mondami is the mayor.

He can go to Gracie Mansion tomorrow, measure the drapes, but this is the bait tonight will have zero impact on anything unless Sliwa literally gets up there, rips the beret off and says, I'm joining a potential Cuomo administration.

Okay.

I'm with you on the numbers as they're coming in. He's crushing it.
Momdani is amazingly.

I don't know why the Democrats couldn't do better than sex pest Andrew Cuomo as their next best representative. You know, I mean, why didn't you get a more qualified candidate to run in the primary

and stop Andrew Cuomo from running? Why? I don't know. I guess they like Mumdomi.
I mean, because he can't, right?

I think people thought Cuomo was going to be a runaway train, that they would not want to take him on. Oh, yeah.
I mean, go back to when this first started. Cuomo was at 50%.

He had about a 30-point lead. Cuomo's reputation was one of being...

you know, playing hardball that if you got in his way, he would destroy you politically. And his record was pretty enviable in terms of head-to-head against other people.

I think if you had said it was going to be you, you know, candidate A, B, C, or D, against a socialist who's 33 years old, I think hands would have shot up all over New York City.

And that's part of the problem. By the time they realized what had happened, it was too late.
And I think, Megan, the big question tonight, I was really curious going into the first debate.

I was surprised in the first debate that Sliwa attacked Cuomo more than he attacked Mandani. Now, tonight, what does he do? Because the more he attacked Cuomo, Mandani sat there smiling.

I mean, it was almost like he was doing his dirty work for him and he could float above it. So I think he's going to keep doing it.
Yeah. Here's what I think.

He's going to keep doing it because he's pissed off at Andrew Cuomo and all of the Andrew Cuomo supporters who are leaning on him. to save them all from Momdani, which is not Curtis Liwa's job.

Curtis Liwa is running as a Republican. He's running a decent race for a Republican in New York.
And he took off the beret. He went out there.

He's boned up on policy and he wants to be taken seriously. And he says there are down ballot races that will be hurt if he drops out.
You know, Republicans running on the ticket.

And everyone's looking at him like he's the problem, as opposed to yourselves for letting this sex pest granny killer, Andrew Cuomo, be your only other hope beside the guy who loves the 9-11 terrorists, which we'll get to in a second.

All right, we are definitely getting into Zoran Mamdani and where they should go in this debate. But before we do,

the level of pressure on Curtis to drop out is like

intense.

It was on the cover of the New York Post yesterday, and the post said, we know we're going to take a beating from our audience, which is more right-leaning, but Curtis has no chance, and you got to choose the lesser of two evils, and that's Cuomo.

Then Curtis went on Sid Rosenberg's show,

the local New York radio show, very popular, a very popular host and channel.

And the owner of it, John Casamirez, who started Gristidi's grocery stores, just said yesterday or the day before that he wants Curtis to drop out.

And again, I don't, this is not because he doesn't love Curtis, but here's what just happened on Sid's show where Curtis appeared as a guest.

Selfish?

Are you out of your mind? Well, that's not me. I haven't said that.
Well,

Sid, you're part of, quote, the family there, correct?

Exactly. Correct.
Am I part of that? I'm just asking you. No.
You individually know.

But that's why you will never see me ever in the studios of WABC again.

Never.

No matter how this election turns out.

Wow. And that's saying something because he does have his own radio show at that channel, which has been suspended while he's been running.
But mark your thoughts on it. The

pressure on him.

On Curtis,

I'm kind of an amateur psychologist when it comes to Curtis because I've been studying him for a long time. He's having the time of his life.

I know he's expressing anger there, but he's, you know, he's on Fox News three times a day now.

He's getting a lot of attention from people, rich people, and supporters of folks. And even the White House is focused on him.

So for Curtis, I think he's just having fun, regardless of any other motivation he might have to stay in the race.

And then the other issue for him is,

does he really want something? You know,

Sean mentioned a job in the Cuomo administration. It's not clear to me from talking to people who've talked to Curtis that

he wants a job in the Cuomo administration. So they're trying to appeal to his sense of if you, if you, if Cuomo loses.

and the gap, the delta between Cuomo and Mondami is your vote total, you will go down in history as having elected a socialist. And I think for Curtis, it's like, yeah, whatever.

That's not why I'm doing this. I'm going to win.

You know,

here's where I stand on it.

I can't stand Andrew Cuomo. I literally cannot imagine ever pulling the lever for him.
Not only did he help kill 15,000 elderly people with his terrible COVID management problems.

And it's not innocent. It's not like COVID, it was a virus.
We didn't know. No, we knew that the elderly were the most frail and fragile.

And he said, put put the positive patients into the New York nursing homes. And the nurses who do all the yeoman's work inside of these homes said, are you effing kidding me?

No, you're going to kill off a bunch of seniors. And he said, do it.
He overruled them. They were on the record as having warned him.
He overruled them.

And then when all of these elderly New Yorkers died before they had to, he lied. He lied about the number of deaths.

He was too busy in his vanity projects like his book, book, which was also written on taxpayer dime. He's a disgusting, dishonest, disreputable person.
I could not vote for him.

But we have a terror-loving candidate who's about to win. So this is an impossible,

this is my opinion, impossible situation for New Yorkers.

But

I also, Sean, object to what's being done to Curtis, who, oh, I'm sure he is enjoying the attention, but as far as I can tell, is running an honest race, didn't kill off a bunch of grannies, didn't make a sex pest out of himself, doesn't embrace people who praised 9-11 and call them pillars of the community, like we just found out about Mamdani.

And yet you got it from all sides coming on Curtis. And enter Bill Ackman, who tweeted this out today.
I spoke to someone who knows Curtis Sleewa. And now I understand why he's staying in the race.

The city has an 8-to-1 matching program for New York City donors. Sleewa got $5 million of matching funds from the city for his campaign.

According to my source, Sleewa's wife, friends, and others are on the campaign payroll, and he and they are enjoying living off the city taxpayers who are funding his race/slash lifestyle.

He doesn't want to end his campaign and have to return the funds. Follow the money.
When I asked

why he doesn't care about New York City, my source said, he doesn't give a shit. Clearly, this is hearsay, but my source is extremely credible and a highly respected person, and he knows Lee well.

Curtis, please correct the record if I got anything wrong. What personal or other related expenses is your campaign paying for? Is your wife and or other family or friends on the campaign payroll?

Or are they receiving any funding? Please clarify the record. I mean, it's getting rather desperate, Sean.

Yeah, look, I agree with you. I'm a Republican, but you are actually the exact test case why I laid out the scenario that I did.

In order for someone like me, or someone like, it sounds like you, to vote for a Democrat of the ilk of Andrew Cuomo, it would take literally someone like Sliwa saying, I am dropping out and I'm going to be part of this effort.

So you can have a clean conscience that when you're voting for Cuomo, you're actually kind of also voting for me because I have agreed to be part of the administration in some way.

And to Mark's point, I don't know that he wants a job, but I think the bigger question is, does he want to stop Mondami more than anything else? And that's the question. Where are those priorities?

He has every right to run. He's a Republican.

But the math is such that if you look at, Donald Trump got 735,000 votes out of the boroughs when he ran for president. Curtis Lewa got 300,000 last time that he ran, right?

He's underperforming even the Republican base. That's a problem for him right now.
And look, I get it. He has every right to stay in the race.

It's not his fault that Democrats nominated a guy like Mondami. It's not his problem to solve.
The question is, does he care more about stopping Mondami or continuing this race?

And to Bill Ackman's point, I would just say this.

There are plenty of creative campaign finance ways that if he really needed the money or wanted to pay off a bunch of people, he could front load a ton of expenses.

I mean, there's a way to get around all that creatively if that were actually the motive.

I don't think that that's the case

because you could find a way to spend a lot of it and back channel it to yourself after the fact. Not that I'm condoning that, but I'm just saying that

there is plenty of creative ways that I've seen over 30 years in politics to take care of that problem. So

we're like, what, two weeks from election day?

This would be the point at which he'd get off that horse.

You just buy yourself a bunch of like Uber black credits and then you ride the Ubers around. Why doesn't Bill Ackman cut him a check?

He's got more money than God. He could send him one check and then put an end to that if that were really the problem.
If that were the motive, I don't think that's the motive.

Let me just play this one soundbite and tell me what you guys think about it because it went everywhere. Sliwa went on the Nate Friedman show.

I thought it was very powerful. Here's what he said.

Okay, if Mom Donnie wins, that you, so to speak, contributed to that. Well, number one, Ackman is a jerk.
Has he been right yet?

Here's a guy who goes up to Newport, Rhode Island, and thinks he's a professional tennis player. Come on, Ackman.
Stay in your lane. Does he know anything about politics? No.

Does he live in New York City? No. He lives in Chaprika, the whitest suburb of America where even the lawn jockeys are white.
He may know Wall Street. He may know hedge funds.

He has been wrong every step of the way with the billionaires. So let's say people come to the conclusion if somehow I lose, and we know Andrew Como's lost, he's already tossed in the town.

Oh, it's because of you, Curtis. Because, really?

It's because of the Democrats. What is he? Who created Johan Mandami? Who embraced him? Who nourished him? Who supported him?

And how dare you, people who know nothing about politics, suggest that everybody who's going to vote for me is suddenly going to be reborn. We love Andrew Cuomo.

He killed all these elderlies, the sexual harassment.

He told conservatives and Republicans in 2014, if you're a conservative and you believe in right to life and the Second Amendment, you have no place in New York. You need to leave.

This is the result of the Democrat self-destruction. So I'm supposed to help them.

How come they don't help themselves?

I represent a major party line. I have people running under me, council people, judges.
They put their heart and soul into it. They support me.

I have more donations than Andrew Comel does matching funds. So you know something? This is called voting.

Since when do we not let people vote? Billionaires determine the next mayor? If If they don't like it, they can leave. They have options.
Blue-collar working-class people don't.

Those are the people I'm representing, not Andrew Cuomo.

He's devastating. He's very good.
Come on. That's quite amazing, is it not, Dan?

Oh, absolutely. And Megan, I don't know if you watched the debate, but he was very, very good.
I mean, if you didn't know what to do,

what did he say, the author and the apprentice, or the architect and the apprentice? Yeah, I mean, it was beautiful.

And conversely to his point andrew cuomo looked old and stilted and you know rambled on and on and so i'm sure it is just grating at saliwa to say you know he's got energy he's he's got more of his party behind him and that cuomo is kind of in this like mushy area where he's just like he's not mandani so we all need to rally to him so i look i think just like democrats ran rfk out if you are going to get saliwa out i i think trying to insult him about payroll and family, not the way to do it.

Open your arms like Trump did to RFK, embrace him, bring him in, give him, treat him with respect and dignity. That's probably your best bet.

It was very clever of him, Mark, to, in that sound bite, not focus necessarily on all the things about Cuomo that we know, but to speak to the things that do bother Republicans about him, like that comment about the Second Amendment and abortion rights, and you don't belong in New York.

If you disagree with me on that, that's what makes a lot of people on the right say, over my dead body, am I voting for anyone named Cuomo, in particular, this one.

He's not exactly Fredo, but he's no Mario. Yeah.
Well,

this is why we're seven steps away from the race being competitive because it's not just about getting Curtis Leewy out. It's about then trying to figure out how do you use Donald Trump, for instance.

Last-minute robo calls would probably be more effective to Republicans than any public statement. But Eric Trump yesterday, Donald Trump yesterday, they continue to talk about the race.

One of the fascinating things about Curtis, I think, is he's speaking the language of the populists, right? He's talking as a Republican about not letting billionaires decide the race.

And what's interesting about the kind of connection between, to me, between Sliwa and Mamdani is they're both anti-billionaire, right? They're both anti-establishment.

They're both saying don't let the machine, business as usual, carry the day.

And that's one reason, even if the country isn't riveted by this, there's a lot to learn here about the mood of the nation, even though it's New York and New York's different than every place else.

It is an experiment to say these two guys are really striking a chord, whereas Cuomo has not because they're talking like Donald Trump

against the influence of special interests, against the status quo for change, not business as usual.

Sean Spicer, I have to say, for me,

it's boiling down to, and I don't get a vote anymore. I left New York, but I was a New York City resident for 17 years recently.
So I feel connected to the city. And we don't live that far from it.

So, you know, we go into New York all the time. But for me, this is boiling down to whether,

forget the fact that Zora Mamdani is a socialist. Okay, that's a big thing to forget.
But let's forget that for a second. It's like between

this guy, Cuomo, who is a terrible man, who hates Republicans, who thinks people like you and me should leave the state because of our good faith-held beliefs, who killed off a bunch of grandparents without even acknowledging, who lied,

the sex pest thing, yes, that's out there too, and choosing someone who I actually believe doesn't give a shit that we were attacked by Muslim terrorists on 9-11. I actually think

that this big debate unfolded on Piers Morgan between a young conservative woman and a young liberal guy, they're both pundits, about this guy's belief that Charlie Kirk was a bigot.

Why do you think he was a bigot? She got in his face. Oh, because he said he should just put on the hood.
Well, why did you say he should just put on the hood?

Oh, because he said something about Zora Mamdani and we shouldn't have this Muslim as

a ruler, as a governor, or a mayor in New York.

Charlie was right about that. This guy scares me.
And it's not just because he happens to be Muslim. It's because all the facts that have come out about this guy.

And I don't think, I don't, I'm just going to be honest, Islam is not consistent with our Western lifestyle or values.

And I am not in favor of all of these hard Muslim representatives taking over as mayors in our cities. I'm not.

It's one thing if you're a Muslim who wants to assimilate and you want to become much more like an American citizen.

It's quite another if you have traditional Muslim views, which see women as subjugated, which don't believe in free speech, which do believe in merging the state and religion.

And by the way, the religion is not a great one. Sorry.

And that's Zora Mamdani. That's what Charlie suspected.
And that's what the evidence is proving.

As we now learn that this guy, Mamdani, went arm in arm, all smiles, with a man who absolutely loved what happened to us in New York on 9-11. His name is Siraj Wahaj.

And while he's been described by some, he's an imam at a big mosque in New York, while he's been described to some by as an unindicted 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the one that happened before 9-11, co-conspirator.

That's not exactly true. He was never actually

about to be indicted, says Andy McCarthy, who actually tried that case against the blind sheikh. But he was all in favor of it.
He was totally in favor of it.

And not just that, but this guy has gone on and on.

I'm just going to give the audience a little, a little listen to of Imam Siraj Wahaj, who has endorsed Mom Dani and who Mom Dani is calling a pillar of the community, SAT 17.

You don't get into politics because it's the American thing to do.

You do it because politics can be a weapon to use in in the cause of Islam.

It is an honor to die in jihad. Yes.
Honor to die in jihad. I want to defend this country.

You know what this country is?

It's a garbage can.

It's filthy.

Filthy and sick.

Every day they will go to school and they'll put an American flag in front of these little babies, Muslim babies.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. Bullshit!

You tell me, Sean Spicer, whether we need to be deeply concerned about Zoram Mamdani.

Oh, you do.

And you're going to have another, he's going to have a buddy in Minneapolis soon, too, that will be elected to the middle of the year. Omar Fateh.

Here's the thing that I don't get, Megan. Like, this didn't just happen.
Like, they didn't get randomly pulled from a jar like it was the lottery at night.

They went through a process. New New York City had a primary where they chose him.
But think about the options they were given. The current corrupt mayor, Adams, Cuomo with

all of the issues.

I want to talk about that, but I want... Can you address my point on the substance? Yeah.
Because

I think you're right. I mean, but this is my point, though.
None of this is a surprise. People chose that.

His associations, he doesn't hide it. He's not out there saying, I don't know this guy.
He's embracing him. Like, there's a difference.
A lot of politicians would say, I don't even know this guy.

I only met him once. That was just a photo.
Mondami's like, yeah, I know the guy. He's great.
He tweeted it out. It's Mondami's.
It's office tweeted him. It's confidence or it's insanity.

I just can't imagine that close to early voting beginning him openly doing this.

It's bizarre.

That's what I'm saying. Like, this isn't a guy that's hiding these associations or these views.
I mean, he's also a guy that said that he has no problem taxing the white people, right?

This is, if this was any other scenario, you'd say that's blatant racism. But people are like, oh, okay, what else does he want? What else does he believe?

Like, I cannot believe with all of the things that this guy has said, all of the people that he's associated with, all of the crazy background, that there's no outrage. What is going on?

That this is sort of where the greatest city on earth is about to turn to to lead it going forward. I don't think people know.

I don't think people do know this. I really, I didn't know this and I've been following this race.
I did not know about the terror connection, and it's real.

This, here's Andy McCarthy, who's been very honest about it. He's the one who came out to say, not an unindicted co-conspirator, but not a good person.

He says the New York Post is fair in describing Wahaj as a terror apologist. That's in quotes.
In fact, says Andy, he testified as a defense witness at the criminal trial of the blind sheik.

He showed up to back the guy who tried to bomb the World Trade Center the first time.

Now you've got Mom Dani out there calling him, literally calling him a pillar of the community.

As I point out, Mom Donnie is the one who tweeted out the photo that we're looking at now of the two of them arm in arm.

He has, according to the New York Post,

he's urged jihad

on New York City, on the Big Apple. Not Mom Dhammi, but his BFF here, this Imam Siraj Wahaj.
Mom Dhani tweets out today, this is just like a week ago,

today at Masjid al-Taqwa, I had the pleasure of meeting with Imam Siraj Wahaj, one of the nation's foremost Muslim leaders and a pillar of the Bed Stai community for nearly half a century.

He then attacked Cuomo for not going to a mosque. Like somehow that's the new...

threshold that you have to well that's another campaign Cuomo blew that too yeah

but my point is, is that he's doubling down on all this stuff. This is not a guy that's walking away from it, distancing himself.
He's doubling down over and over again on this.

Well, and that's the interesting thing.

There was a point this summer when Mandani was quietly meeting with Jewish leaders and business leaders, people that he had had trouble with and kind of gone after a little bit in the primary to kind of try to make amends, to build bridges.

But there have been a series of things that have come up where recently and in that debate, and this is another instance, where he's not apologizing. He's not backing away.

And I think, you know, personally, I don't have a problem with the fact that he is a Muslim.

I do have a problem when there are some people within his religion and within the New York City community who have said things that are pretty abhorrent and taken, you know, those positions to not, to, to not condemn it.

I mean, it is troubling. And I do wonder, it is late if this won't start to percolate around New York City more.
Oh, it's too late. Here's some more about Wahaj.

He heads the Muslim Alliance in North America.

He, in a sermon in the early 2000s, by the way, his real name is Jeffrey Kurse, born and raised in Brooklyn. Okay, Jeffrey.

He called for an army of 10,000 men to wage what he insisted was a gun-free jihad on New York City. I pray one day Allah will bless us to raise us an army.
And I'm serious about this, he said.

Don't pick up a gun. No, just march.
March to the city of New York. 800,000 Muslims in New York City.
Can you imagine if 800,000 Muslims decide to march every day? And it goes on and on.

Okay, he says this. The LGBTQ community is a disease of this society and goes on to say, as you know, brothers and sisters, you know what the punishment is.

If a man is found with another man, The Prophet Muhammad said the one who does it and the one to whom it is done to kill them both.

He discouraged his followers from open violence against the LGBTQ community,

but instead insisted that they should be invited to join Islam and make them feel uncomfortable. Great.
This is great.

I hope my progressive leftist friends on the Upper West Side and Upper East Side are listening to this.

This is his plan, his BFF's plan for the LGBTQ community, that they need to be invited to join Islam. and be uncomfortable.
And here's the last two.

Last point.

He also made headlines. This is again from the New York Post.

Made headlines in 2018 when three of his children were arrested for keeping 11 children in third world conditions in a compound made of garbage in the New Mexico desert.

His three kids were there, including his son, who has his same name.

And his son was training a 13-year-old, along with the 13-year-old's teen brother, to fight against non-believers through techniques including rapid reloads and hand-to-hand combat.

Wahaj insisted that he was the one who called the police on his six son and two daughters leading to their arrest. How bad were their crimes? They were sentenced to life in prison last year.

I'm just going to go out there on a limb and say, if my three children wind up committing themselves to the jihad and weapons training, and they're living in a compound made of garbage in the desert.

It's kind of on me.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, Mark Halperin. You're very old-fashioned, maybe.
I'll tell you the other dog that is not barking here, and it's just such an outrage. The New York Times.

Can you imagine how the New York Times would cover a Republican candidate who's associated with people with those views on LGBTQ?

They cover Mondami like he's Barack Obama 2008. Beautiful smile, inspirational, using new Gandhi, using new media in creative ways.
All true, but they're silent

on all these issues.

The New York Post has covered them extensively, but the New York Times coverage of this race, the media generally, there's been no scrutiny of the guy on all these things that you're raising here.

New Yorkers don't know because they're not being covered.

There's one more.

Wahaj,

this imam, is a mentor of Brooklyn-based Muslim activist Linda Sarsour,

according to this intelligence report that the Post got its hands on.

Sensor

has called Mom Dani, or no, no, not Mom Dani, Wahaj, my favorite person in the room.

She is the same person who, in reference to Ayan Hirsi Ali and Brigitte Gabriel, both of whom are amazing women,

said

she's asking for an ass whooping. I wish I could take their vaginas away.
They don't deserve to be women.

That's who loves the same imam. That's who's probably going to be showing up to the Mamdani swearing-in ceremony.
If, in fact, you are right that he should measure the drapes because it's his.

It's so disturbing. There's one more sound buddy that I wanted to play.
Hold on a second. It is,

do we have it?

Oh, it's Mamdami's staffer,

Robert Akle,

talking to Stephen Crowder operative undercover about the NYPD and how they feel about cops, SOT 19.

What they think.

You're a city employee.

It started with who gives a shit what they think. I'm sorry.
I guess these aren't going to be issues. Like, why not? Like, truly, why not? What's happened to the Democrat Party?

What's happened to New Yorkers?

Well, look, you got to remember that Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer still haven't endorsed the guy, right? And

as I said, he's going to be the next mayor. And it says something when even those guys distance themselves.

But to Mark's point, If a Republican had a donor that had said crazy stuff like this, they would be going nuts. Are you giving the money back?

How much atonement must you do to prove that you didn't know this?

And here we are over and over again with things and people and comments that Mondami has associated with, praised, et cetera, and nothing, not a peep, no mainstream media outrage, investigations, et cetera.

The New York Times magazine this Sunday was a glowing multi-page profile on how this guy is the coming of the next political Jesus. It was unbelievable.
And

they just ignore it. Ignore it.

Well, and this is the problem is, you know, those comments about policing, his comments about taxes, when, you know, the city's having a a problem with him going to Florida and other places.

Megan, you know, this area well.

The Democrats, in order to win the House of Representatives back, are trying to pick up those seats out on Long Island, up the Hudson River, that are more kind of swing districts.

This stuff is poison in those areas. I mean, forget the Senate race in North Carolina, Ohio, you know, places you wouldn't even begin to talk about socialism as the pillar of your party.

It's toxic just a few miles across both rivers in this area. And yet, there's no one in the party on a national level pushing back.

There's either silence or kind of, you know, holding their nose and saying they're with them. Sean mentioned the glowing New York Times piece.
I have to read you the Washington Post headline.

It's my favorite. And again, very reminiscent of the coverage of Obama 2008.
Hazaran Mondami is charming a famously hard-nosed city.

Nothing about terrorism in there. No.

Where's the profile of his BFF? Yes. The smiling socialist promise of a more affordable New York City has vaulted him to the top of mayoral polls.

Smiling socialists. I'm genuinely scared.
I'm genuinely scared for our city.

I mean, if Curtis drops out and it's truly just between Cuomo and Mom Donnie, and I'm living in New York, I would vote for Cuomo.

I threw up in my mouth. I would.
As between these two, I think I'd...

I don't know.

I'd prefer somebody who wants somebody who hates me versus someone who likes to associate with people who want to potentially kill me. That's kind of where I am.

Thanks a lot.

Doesn't fit in a bumper sticker, but it's pretty good.

I can't even, I don't understand this. I don't know my city.

I only saw clips in the first debate, which is why, again, if you watch tonight's, you get time served for any crime that you commit in the future.

And Cuomo went into that thing like a little lamb. He was just like the assembly man.

I'm like, you elevated him. You treated him with respect.
Ozempic

kills your testosterone, as it turns out.

What's that? I said, Ozempic kills your testosterone. It's just my opinion.

He's awfully thin versus where he was before.

I thought it was pathetic. I actually thought his performance, any attempt to score political points on him were horribly missing the target.
It was, I think, he was totally ineffective.

That's why I'm telling you, it's over. Sorry.
I mean, somebody has to do something tonight that is a game changer. Somebody not named Zora Mamdani.
And this is it. This is their last chance.

Including the moderators. Yeah.
Yeah. Who didn't really press Mandani in

that first debate. I mean, he contradicted himself on some of those answers about policing and about taxing.
But to your point, Cuomo was a mess.

If you had said there's three candidates up there, one with a ton of experience, one who's a newcomer and one who's been around, you know, kind of for a few years on the periphery, you would have thought Cuomo was the newcomer because he was so rambling and just kind of rigid.

And you'd have thought Mandani had been in politics for 30 years.

He was confident, cool, calm, had packaged responses, quick on his feet. It's tough.

That's how they get you to buy the snake oil. The product is no good.
The salesman has to be smooth.

And there are guys like that. And he absolutely is one of them.

Okay, let's keep going because the Virginia race is actually very interesting too. And that one's heating up.

Unfortunately, not as much heat at the top level for the actual governor's house, the state house. But that attorney general race was shifted.

It was turned pretty massively by those vile texts that came out from Jay Jones, who is the Democratic candidate for Attorney General in Virginia, who would love to see Republicans and their children killed.

And though he's really sorry for saying it repeatedly in writing and via phone call many times, but he's sorry.

So the race has tightened considerably to the point where I think he's probably going to lose that race.

Now, I realize Spanberger could help get him over the top because she's still polling over Winsome Sears. But I want to know what you guys think.

The latest numbers are as follows in the AG race in Virginia. Back in July, Jones was up nine.

Last month, he was up six. Then the scandal broke of the texts, and now his GOP opponent, Mieres, leads up three.

So, I mean, that's

a 12-point swing since July, a nine-point swing from September, but it's still within the margin of error. So what do you guys think is going to happen with that Virginia AG race?

And then we'll talk about the top of the ticket.

Well, I'll jump in as the... voter in the Commonwealth of Virginia here.

Look, Jason Miares is doing a great job. He's raising enough money.
But importantly, you pointed out, right, that the tide is with him.

And in the final 12 days of a campaign, you want to be swimming with the tide, not against it. Miares is in great position right now.

He is not taking his foot off the gas pedal when it comes to highlighting not just what Jay Jones said about former Speaker Todd Gilbert, but what he would do to Todd's wife and their children.

That's where I think you're getting a lot of this really resonating, is it's not just, I wanted to kill Todd Gilbert and use two bullets to do it.

It's I actually wanted Todd's wife to see his dead child lie in her arms. And that's despicable to an all-new level that you really can't explain away.

And you talk about people in the 5th, the 9th District, like that's just a non-starter.

Jay Jones is going to have a very tough time to begin with in a lot of the state where he needed to do well, especially in Northern Virginia. And that's just going to take him down.

I think Miaris wins that race by about five points. You move to the middle where you've got...
the lieutenant governor's race. Polling now has that as a dead-even race.

I believe this is your generic ballot race in Virginia, John Reed versus Gazala Hashmi. And neither one of them have a ton of money.
Gazala is now up in D.C.

television giving her some, you know, a helpful bump in the northern Virginia area where she needs to run up the score. But she hasn't denounced Jay Jones either.

Neither one of them have the ad money to really go toe-to-toe with each other.

So this is where the top of the ticket will probably decide if Winsom Sears can beat Abigail Spanberger, John Reed, the lieutenant governor, comes over the top.

I think that those races are probably linked together. Winsom, to her credit, has gotten the race within the margin of error.

So, you know, some have her down, dead even, some have her down two, some have her down a little bit more, but it's right there. And the question is, can her ground game put her over the top?

Abigail Spanberger had a really bad debate the other night where she just stood silent.

Oh, and I think she really, again, a missed opportunity there.

Winsom just has to get the final funding. The RGA, the Republican Governor Association, came in with another $3 million.

Winsom says that she's doing really well now with fundraising. So the question is, can you get enough in there?

Now, one big difference between New York and Virginia, to my dismay, is that in Virginia, we have way too early voting. We had about 355,000 people that voted before the Jay Jones scandal broke.

And the question is, where were those votes coming from? Still a little unclear where the early vote is ended up, but that's the biggest problem. Because in Virginia, we don't vote

by party registration. Well, you raised an interesting point there that I hadn't considered, Mark and Dan, you guys can weigh in if you want, which is

I never considered like an upward draft. You know, that like maybe these Republicans who are like, I'm getting off of the couch.
I've never voted in an attorney general race before in my life.

But that is my reason for going down to these polls and voting Republican today to make sure Jay Jones does not get this job. And while I'm here, let me just fill in the circle for Winsome Sears.

Is that a thing? Have we seen upward drafts before? Most political professionals laugh when the notion of reverse coattails are mentioned.

But I think this may be a special case because the Jones thing has gotten so much coverage. And because there's so little money for advertising,

the media coverage plays a bigger role, like in a presidential race.

And I think that the failure of the Democrats to denounce Jones, to say that he shouldn't be the nominee, has really had an impact on the news environment.

And Republicans have done a very good job of mobilizing off of it. So I think if Spanberger wins by more than six,

I think she'll save the bottom of the ticket. But if it's close to-go, yeah, by six or more, I think probably the Democrats sweep.
But if it's less than that, then I think Jones will lose.

The turning little secret is Jones has a horrible relationship with most of the Democratic Party in his state. They're all inexplicably standing by him.

I still don't quite understand why, but there's not a a lot of support for him personally. And I think that's having an impact on the organizers, the grassroots part of the establishment.

So the Democrats are doing their best to hang on. They have Pete Buttigieg went in.
Obama's going in. They're going to try to rally their voters.
But as Sean said, the momentum is in one direction.

And the Jones thing has really stayed resonant in the news coverage.

Winsome Sears is going to be

Winsome Sears is going to be on this program tomorrow. Just want to let everybody know that.
So we'll get to talk to her about some of this ourselves. Go Go ahead, Sean and then Dan.

The pollsters that I've talked to are basically have said to me, people who get information from the legacy media, particularly older voters, this has had a tremendous impact.

But people at the lower end, where they're cut the cord, they use influencers or get their information from social media, have not been as moved.

And that's where the ticket's going to struggle right now. Can they reach out beyond legacy media to get that message out using digital strategies, influencers, et cetera?

That's critical for these guys, for Sears Winsom, for John Reed, and Jason Billarez.

They've got to really use tactics that probably their consultants don't get paid as much by doing if they go in that direction.

But the other thing that's really fascinating, and I know at least it's in the mind of some Virginians here, is back when Governor Ralph Northram was caught either in Blackface or a KKK outfit.

We can't remember which one.

Every one of those people, Senator Tim Kaine, Abigail Spanberger, then a member of Congress, all said he should resign as the current incumbent governor in Virginia.

And yet when Jay Jones talks about assassinating a political opponent and wishing that his child was dead in his mother's arms, they say that's up to him to decide.

So you'll call one guy out, not another. I think there's a couple through lines there that I can explore.

Not for nothing, but it was children, multiple children belonging to the House Speaker who he wanted to see dead in their mother's arms.

On that front, about Abigail Spamberger, she's like, it's not my problem. You know, it's like,

it's the AG. Listen to her on Katie Couric's podcast.
You guys may have seen this online yesterday on this whole topic. She doesn't like to be talking about this.
Sat too.

If I'm being very honest, we are three weeks away from an election in Virginia. I have worked tirelessly for two years running for this office.
I announced in November 2023.

The fact that I, and I say this with all due respect because I think it's a fair thing for you to ask about, the fact that I have to spend even a moment's time talking about somebody else's text messages from years ago rather than what I want to do as governor is something that I am deeply unhappy about.

What we, the collective, we would have done, you know, had this information come to light much earlier. I will say this.

I would be much, much happier as a candidate if I could just talk about all of the things that I am for.

Oh,

she doesn't like to be asked about the scandals of her fellow Democrat whom she endorsed. Boo fucking who.

I think that will be in the textbooks of how not to answer a question like that. I mean, she seemed indignant.

Like, how could you, you know, this is a real nuisance instead of taking it as an opportunity to show leadership to say and pass the common sense test, which is it's obviously, you know, crazy and disqualifying.

Look, the reason she's not going to say that is the black vote is very important to the Democratic Party. And there's a reason so many Democrats are willing to go.

I didn't even know Jay Jones was black, by the way. I didn't even know he was black.
Even when I saw him, he did not look black to me.

I'm only, I only, he has to go the Karine Jean-Pierre route and just tell everybody I'm black at the beginning of his debates and his interviews if he really wants that to get out there.

Keep going, Dan. Well, and so one of the issues for Democrats, and this is true in New Jersey and true in Virginia, there's worries about enthusiasm.

I think all throughout this campaign, the thought of Democrats is because of Doge, we're not going to have any problem turning out Northern Virginia. We're not going to have any problem

turning out Democrats. Well, you've begun to see some evidence that Democrats are kind of not really motivated.
Spanberger has not run a great campaign.

Amazing just the summer, people around her were talking about her running for president immediately after

getting elected. I think that is now, you know, briefly on hold.
But I I think,

you know, yeah, I mean, part of this is now, is how much has this between the Charlie Kirk assassination, between this, are Republicans going to be fired up and turn out?

And how can Democrats get over the finish line and not potentially kind of

blow this away?

By the way, can I say one thing that we don't, that's, that's not really come at the forefront of this.

Why she reacted the way she did, obviously she doesn't want to talk about it, even though she endorsed the guy, but it's their view of the media, right?

Hey, Katie Kirk, how dare you ask me a tough question? This is supposed to be a softball. This is what I expect from you guys, right? That's their view.
You're not supposed to ask me a tough question.

I'm not supposed to be challenged. I get softball questions.
How dare you question me like this?

It was listed as a home game on her schedule. Yes, it was.
Yeah, exactly right. Practice.

So then, so here they bring up the other big issue in the race. Kirk does, and they both have the same exact attitude about it.

And that is the trans issue with all these so-called trans girls, which is a boy, going into girls' locker rooms and bathrooms, which is a very real issue, especially in Loudoun County, which is a beautiful place to live.

When I lived in Virginia, I lived there for a couple of years. Her goal was to live in Loudoun County.
It was so pretty. And it was sort of bucolic and looked kind of country, kind of rural.

To think that these people now have to be persuaded that this lunatic shouldn't be elected Spanberger

because she wants boys in girls' rooms. Like, how is that not an immediate deal breaker that ends it? Meanwhile, instead, they're ground zero on this issue.

And here's Curic asking Spanberger about it.

It's SOT3.

I have a feeling you might feel the same way that this is a distraction from your goals as governor. But

a big topic

both in the recent presidential race and now in the gubernatorial race in Virginia has been transgender rights. I'm just curious why you think this has become such an animating issue in this race.

And I think the real challenge is there's a lot of people who've never met a trans person, whether they're a trans youth or an adult.

And so there's a real effort to engage in some level of fear-mongering and talking to my daughters, trying to gauge their opinions of things. And

they somewhat, one of of them somewhat comically said, like, nobody likes to use the bathroom at school anyway. It's so messy and everybody's loud, et cetera.
Yeah.

And it seems like it really has played an outsized role. Oh my God.
Campaigns

when it really affects very few people.

You out-of-touch millionaire.

You know what I was going to say. Fear-mongering.
Listen to them. Oh, it's just a question about messy bathrooms.

A girl was raped in in a Loudoun County school bathroom, which then was lied about, and her dad was arrested for making a big deal out of it. It was a national scandal.
Is that going to work?

Why don't more people care? We got 25 seconds to break. Who wants to take it?

I'll just say, as a Democrat, what's really, really depressing about this is that was the same attitude we had about immigration four years ago. It's a made-up issue and it's not real.

And here we are again trying to just, you know, wash it away instead of confronting the opportunity. Who doesn't want energy, metabolic, immune, and skin support?

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It's finally here. Megan Kelly live in Texas with your favorite all-star guests, Donald Trump Jr.
There's a true seismic shift going on right now.

Watching the Democrats, it's amazing that they're so far out of touch. Len Beck.
It's going to be a lot of fun. I'm going to be making a major announcement with her.

I'm making a major pivot point in my career. Jesse Kelly.
They stand up and they tell people, Hitler's coming, Hitler's coming, Hitler's coming.

And you have all these single women on anti-anxiety meds freaking out, oh my gosh, the world's gonna end.

These people get lied to repeatedly, and all they do, maybe it's a Democrat thing, is bend over it and say, Thank you, sir. May I have another.
Emily Jashinski. The rapid response choir.
Across Nero,

I don't want to sound racist, but I sometimes really hate white people, Mike.

Len Greenwald. The only time I ever see clips of Michelle Obama is when you force me to see them.
The way you're chewing makes me want to smack you obsessively.

I like watch that with my mouth agape. This is real contempt and hatred in a marriage.
Mark Halperin. I'm hungry.
I could use some salad.

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there are actually a number of reasons.

Please, I would like a light vinaigrette and link Lauren. I will do my Jasmine Crockett impression during the show, I promise.
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I can't wait to see you.

Back with me now, the host of the morning meeting on Tu-Way, Mark Halperin, Sean Spicer, and Dan Turrentine.

Mark's also the host of the MK Media Podcast Network show, Next Up with Mark Halperin, which is a great show. Love Mark's talking points at the front of the show every time.

Had a great interview with Scott Jennings of CNN last week. Go and check it out.
Next up, Halperin.com to find out all the places that you can download and subscribe.

And come see us all on tour, MeganKelly.com for tickets.

Did you want to say something, Sean, now that we are post-break on the Katie Couric exchange with what's her name there in Virginia, Spanberger? My apologies to the team there.

All I say is that one of the things, Abigail may not want to talk about that, but the reality is in Virginia, if she is elected,

what we call the second reading in Virginia will happen and parental rights will be taken away from their kids, whether it's trans or abortions.

That's the big, dirty secret Democrats don't want to talk about, but they're all advancing to their own base.

Parental rights are on the ballot this year, whether it's the trans issue, the ability to have an abortion, and it will be codified in the Constitution. The parents don't need to be notified anymore.

And this is a very scary thing. I understand why they don't want to talk about it, but this is what's really going on beneath the surface in Virginia.

What do you mean? Like they're going to remove parental notification laws for abortions and what else?

And for trans rights. I mean, they will take the parents.

So if you wanted a transition, before it was pretty obvious that a parent had to be notified the same way you would if you wanted an aspirin from the school nurse.

What the Democrats have conjured is the ability to remove parents from the equation. So you won't need parental notification

of abortion. You won't need it when you talk about transitioning, any of this.
They're removing the ability from parents to stand in the middle.

And again, this is a big issue that's, you know, on the Republicans are trying to make sure that people are aware of this.

Democrats don't want to talk about it, but it's gotten itself through the process where once it gets through the second, right now the Democrats control the House of Delegates, the Senate is controlled by the House of Delegates.

If they get the governor back, it then will get re-signed and it's over. Can I make a broader point about what I think is going on here?

The Democrats are still addicted to two things. They're addicted to hating Trump, and they're addicted to being protected by the legacy media.

And so at a time when we're having all these debates in the country brought about by Donald Trump's election, about

DEI policies, about academic university policies, et cetera. The Democrats aren't having this debate.

The smart people in the party know that the reason Spamberger and Sheryl, that candidate New Jersey, are being tied in knots over these trans issues is they're still afraid of the base of the party.

They know where the electorate is, but they're afraid to go there.

And what these elections are proving is that even though there's the lessons of Kamala Harris's defeat, A year later, the Democrats still aren't having their intra-party debate that the smartest strategies I know say they have to have before the midterms of the presidential, or the issues that cost them in 24 will cost them in 26 and 28.

Or at least come close. Let's move to New Jersey

on this show. No one wants to live there full-time.
I love it, but

full-time's a lot.

Doug says we only got a summer home in New Jersey because so I could make the jokes about it.

Anyway, New Jersey's having a big race, and this guy, Chitterelli, is in it. Like it's, it's, it really could go either way.
This one's kind of tight right now.

And he almost came in, like, he almost did it a couple of times before.

But New Jersey seems to be morphing a lot more purplish red than it has in recent elections. And you tell me whether Kelsey Grammer can save the day because he grew up in New Jersey and just dropped.

this ad for the Republican candidate for governor Jack Chitterelli. Watch this.

Hi, Kelsey Grammer here. I grew up in New Jersey.
I love this state. When I was a boy, folks would stand up for what's right and not wait for someone else to fix our problems.

This last decade or so, it seems we've lost our way. Taxes keep climbing, crime's on the rise.
Trenton's filled with politicians talking big and doing nothing. It's time.

It's time to lower taxes and let families breathe again. It's time to protect our girls and preserve fairness in women's sports.

It's time to make New Jersey safe again and stop overdevelopment that's crowding every corner of our suburban communities. It's time to get energy rates under control.

Families shouldn't have to choose between heating their homes and feeding themselves. Finally, it's time to restore integrity, accountability, and pride in Trenton.

Time to believe again in honest leadership and restore the promise of this state. Jack Chitterelli will lead with strength, decency, and respect for all who love New Jersey and call it home.

We've waited long enough. It's time.

Oh, Frazier. Frazier.

So

that race is within three points now, according to the latest poll. Three points is tight.
I do feel a little like Lucy with the football and hoping for

good things out of New Jersey for Republicans. But how do you guys see it?

I think Democrats feel better today than they did two weeks ago in that the Republican has kind of stalled. He was climbing.
Momentum was clearly with him.

I mean, once again, the Democratic candidate, Nikki Sherrill, had a terrible debate.

She had some very bad interviews, most famously, where she was asked about money she made while she was in Congress. And she kind of said, well, I'm not really sure about that.

It was $7 million, to which most people said, I would know if I suddenly had $7 million in my bank account. She just clearly wasn't prepared.

She clearly couldn't speak. Here, too, there are real questions about, you know, can Democrats turn out in places like Nork and other areas that used to be reliably Democratic.

Are those voters continuing to drift away? Can Republicans turn out working-class voters of color that Trump made inroads in? Democrats remain very nervous.

They have since June, but they feel better today than they did two weeks ago. No Trump on the ticket.
Go ahead, Mark.

Spectacular ad. I have to say.

First of all, the narration by Dr. Frazier Crane was outstanding, just perfectly.
It was.

It made me want to settle into a comfy chair with a blankie and your cocoa.

I'm going to go back and listen to that before I record the next episode of Next Up because I'm going to steal some of his craft tricks there.

But the thematic, I think, is perfect for what they're trying to do. It's time, right?

All the issues he raises, energy costs, traffic congestion,

jobs, all these things are problems in taxes. All these things are problems in New Jersey.

So I think that message not just fits the mood of the state and is what the same kinds of things that got Chris Christie elected.

So even though it's become a very blue state, they haven't elected a Republican senator in forever

or voted for a Republican for president, I think since Bush 43 or 41,

they did elect Chris Christie not long ago on all the same kind of themes, corruption in Trenton, economics out of whack, et cetera.

So I agree with Dan that Chitterelli's momentum is not what it was, but no one I know in either party who works in the state familiar with this race, no one would be surprised if Chitterelli won.

No one.

This is an interesting thing. I mean, she's literally getting swift voted.
So Mikey Sherr went to the U.S. Naval Academy.
There's a massive cheating scandal.

And Chitterelli has put her on her heels on this issue,

which is kind of fascinating that here she is trying to use that as a strength. She's a Navy helo pilot, and she's on her heels about her own service because of this cheating scandal at the academy.

She didn't walk in her graduation. She didn't walk in her graduation.
She's accused of doing something, but we're not exactly sure what because she won't release the records. Right.

Well, not only that, but also there's been complete and utter silence from her about what really happened.

And that's a shame because what she thought and what the National Democratics Democrat leaders thought is that this is going to be a woman who's got an amazing resume, as was the case with Abigail Spamberger here in Virginia.

And it's turned out to be a liability.

Look, I agree with Dan and Mark that this is right now, he surged at the wrong time a little too early, but I still think this is where the ground game is going to matter tremendously on both sides.

And to Dan's point, the question is: are those traditional coalitions that are so critical to the Democrats, especially the black vote in like northern New Jersey, gonna turn back out again, Trenton and New Jersey?

I mean, like, that's the thing. I don't get the sense that they've got a lot of excitement there to go out and vote, even the way they did for like a Harris and Biden last time.
So

he may not have surged at the exact right time, but I think Chitterelli can still pull this thing out. It may not be pretty.

It may not be by a lot, but I think he's got more of an edge than she does at this time.

We grew up in New York state, upstate, and my mom's brother grew up or had his family live and raised them in New Jersey.

So we always had family rivalries on which state was better, New York versus New Jersey. And of course, I was on Team New York, and it goes on.

You could hear it in the way I kicked off the segment, even though, again, I own property there.

One time we were driving there from New York City. You always have to pass Newark and those.
awful power plants, which just you can smell them. It smells bad stuff.
Yeah. Yeah.
It smells so bad.

Like the pollution comes and gets you on the highway on your way, you know, down to New Jersey. And I actually chose to Google it.

Like I saw the name of the one place just to see what the heck this thing actually is.

And

it sent me down a rabbit hole on the Googling around New Jersey. And one of the websites that came up had a QA about New Jersey.

And somebody asked, where do all the terrible things about New Jersey come from? And the first answer was, from people who have been there.

There are many, many beautiful parts of New Jersey.

And of course, the president's a homeowner in the state, too. Well, and I'll tell you what I do love about New Jersey.
The people. The people are amazing.

And I always do this like based on the grocery stores. Like you can kind of tell what kind of a community you're in by the grocery stores.

In New York, you go to the Whole Foods on the Upper West Side. You better bring your brass knuckles because you are going to fight a bitch.

I mean, these women are fucking serious about getting their organics. And it's like, you get in their way, your shit's going down.

Like, I never felt so stressed out as I did on in the Whole Foods in New York City where I was like, you can have it. It's fine.

So that was that. Then you go to like Montana.
We go out to Montana. Nobody bothers you.
People are friendly, but they, you know, they keep their distance.

They're not used to being surrounded by tons of people. So like they're, they're friendly, but they're not overly friendly.
It's like arm's length friendliness.

You go to New Jersey, it's just perfect. Everyone is nice.
People will be like, you don't want that avocado, honey. No, that's well past its prime.
And you're like, oh, thank you very much.

I didn't know. But not overly familiar.
Where like sometimes in the south, like they're overly familiar, where you're like, I'm from New York. I can't have this much eye contact.

So the New Jersey, and the thing, the other thing I love about New Jersey people is they will fight. Like if you cross their kid, they will get on the school bus and hurt you.
And I appreciate that.

Like they're, they're not so reserved that they won't stand up for what they think is right. And New Jerseyans, I'm telling you, what is right is to vote for Jack Chitterelli.

Do not let this Mikey Sherrill take over. You've had enough torture.
Why keep doing this to yourself? Why all the self-flagellation with the Newark power plants and now possible Mikey Sherrill?

Don't do it. You can save yourself.
All right, that was my long, long-winded pitch for Jack Chitterelli. Let's keep going.
I want to go out to, up to Maine.

Because this guy, Graham Plattner, who I'd never heard of until recently, is in the news. Susan Collins has not said whether she's running for re-election.
She's a Republican.

And the Democrats are excited because this could be a Dem pickup. And they have a bunch of Dems who want this seat.

There are eight Dems who have declared and are running in the primary, including the sitting governor, Janet Mills, who is 77 years old and would be the oldest person ever elected as a first-term U.S.

Senator. Janet, damn it, Janet.
Don't do it.

Then there's Graham Plattner.

I mentioned him earlier to the audience this week, former Marine infantryman who later served as an Army National Guard soldier and private security contractor, who is a self-described communist,

though he says he's moved past that. Okay, but there's all these Reddit chats that he's now had to kind of scrub.
He tried to scrub, but the internet is forever, where he said things like,

all cops are bastards. I'm a communist.

And rural white Americans actually are racist and stupid, which is not great. And blacks don't tip.

Blacks don't tip. That's nice.
Okay.

Yeah. Okay.
So those are just a couple of low lights from this guy. Oh, he repeatedly used the word retarded.
You're not allowed to do that. If we're just going to play by the

left's rules, he should be penalized. He said he was radicalized.
He says, I did used to love America, or at least the idea of it. These days, I'm pretty disgusted by it all.

He says he's gotten past that too, but these posts were like

three years ago, like 2022 and 2023.

So it's tough to believe that he's magically gotten past it all. And now,

because this is America, there's a Nazi reference. There's always a Nazi reference in the waning days of anyone's campaign.
And here is his.

He went on with the Pod Save guys,

Tommy Viter, to try to do advanced damage control on his Nazi tattoo.

Okay, here he is talking to Tommy Viter, SOT 23.

And kind of a non-traditional campaign move, your team actually shared some opposition research on you with me.

It's a video from, I believe, a decade ago. Let's just watch an excerpt and then we should talk about it.

It's got his shirt off and a bar going nuts.

Like just drunk. Oh no, I headbutted something.

He's in his underwear.

And the reason that we are showing this video is because at the very end, you can see a tattoo on your chest.

And I've been told that some of your political opponents are telling reporters that that tattoo has a Nazi affiliation. And I would like to know: is that accurate? Are you a secret Nazi?

I am not a secret Nazi. At no point in this entire experience of of my life did anybody ever once say, hey, you're a Nazi.

It never came up until

we got wind that in the opposition research, somebody was shopping the idea that I was a secret Nazi with a hidden Nazi tattoo.

And I can honestly say that if I was trying to hide it, I've not been doing a very good job for the past 18 years.

No, he hasn't because several members who worked on his campaign, like his campaign manager,

Genviev McDonald,

she resigned last week over those Reddit posts and disputed his claims of ignorance about the meaning of that tattoo. Graham has an anti-Semitic tattoo on his chest, she wrote.

She said he is a history buff who knows damn well what that tattoo means, which I have to say I do find helpful, her interpretation, because

When I saw this tattoo, I had no idea what it was. To me, it looks kind of like a skull and crossbones, which is,

you know, what they put on little poison bottles, like in It's a Wonderful Life. That's how young George Bailey knew that the pills were poison and he shouldn't deliver them to the family.
And old Mr.

Gower didn't wind up going to jail for life, the skull and crossbones. But when presented like this, I guess it is something called a totenkoff.
And it is a well-known, recognized Nazi symbol.

And according to those who know this particular guy, my

ignorance of what it means is irrelevant. He knew, according to the campaign manager and one other person who

gave an interview saying for sure he knew. So, thoughts on what this does to him?

Well, I think he announced he was going to have the tattoo removed now, which is always a sign that, you know, it may not,

it may not be good. Look, his,

he just had it covered. He didn't have it removed, but he put another tattoo on top of it.
Okay.

Very ugly. Don't know what it is.
Like, looks like part dragon, part spider, part clam.

And I would beg Graham to just reconsider the topless photos just for the sake of us all. Yes, that's probably

start there. Look,

Maine is so fascinating because you mentioned you have Janet Mills, who would be the oldest sitting senator.

Right below Maine in Massachusetts, you have a Democratic House member challenging Ed Markey, the Democratic incumbent senator, on the idea that you're too old.

So you're going to have ads running in Boston into Maine. Planter kind of shot out of nowhere.
He was this working class, authentic guy, you know, great on social media, great with a quote.

Bernie Sanders endorsed him, kind of the liberal intelligentsia jumped on him. And nobody had really done any research on him.
And all of this stuff is coming out. People are standing by him.

They're kind of saying, well, he said stuff when he was younger, but of course, when the shoe's on the other foot, right, we're pretty quick to judge.

his campaign is imploding it's a case study in opposition research i don't think it's a coincidence this all started when janet mills announced she was getting into the race i think the question is whether he tries to soldier on um which i think he will and how much uh you know he and janet mills are going to go at each other to the betterment of susan collins you know this guy

sorry go ahead yeah go ahead mark you go well this guy casts himself as like you know just like a blue collar guy you know where he went to college

George Washington University. He also worked for the company that was Blackwater.
Like, this is a pretty sophisticated guy who understands intelligence and high-level Washington intrigue.

I wonder, we talked about this in the morning meeting, who's dropping all this stuff on this guy? You know, Dan says it's like a case study in opposition research. It's really a masterclass.

And for this guy who says, I'm smart enough to be United States Senator, but not smart enough to handle this stuff before I got in the race, I think that's an issue. It should be for Maine voters.

But Politico is reporting there's more coming. So I'm not sure he'll get out of the race, but

I think his chances of being the nominee now are de minimis. Well, look, I think you missed the second half of the question.
Who's dropping this research and why don't they go and help Curtis Lewa?

Like today? Okay.

Go ahead, Sean. Well, look, this isn't a flash in the pan got a guy, right? He's raised $1.5 million.

This is in Maine, that's like enough to carry you through the entire election. Bernie Sanders has endorsed him.
One, I would say there's a lesson about getting tattoos. Just, you know,

I don't want to start a little debate here, but just remember: you get a tattoo, you own this thing. I remember.
Raise your hand if you have a tattoo in this panel.

Yeah, there you go.

No one. But, but, but I'll just say, Mark, I thought you were going to raise your hand, Mark.
Mark. No way.

Of the three of us, I think Mark would have been. I don't know.
Maybe I could have completed that. That's why.
Do you?

Because he's so. Just buttoned up.
Just to clarify, do you count the Yogi bear that's on my ankle? Does that count?

It's a temporary tattoo from my son.

My mother got a tattoo. I just wanted to get a kind of little symbol on my so that people would.
My mom, Dan, got a tattoo at age 70 of a rosary on her foot. Oh, okay.
Well, I know. Oh my gosh.

All right. Point part of it.
My mom also had.

She had pink hair, then it was fire engine red. Then it was just purple.
It's literally the color of this shirt. That's what it's been for the past year.

She said she dyed it back to brown and she's unhappy because she's not getting enough attention in the grocery stores.

That's her metric on life too. Go ahead, Sean.

Okay.

So look, I would just say, look, he's not going anywhere. He's got a million and a half reasons to stay in the race.

And it's funny to me after we went through the confirmation process with Secretary Hegseth, where suddenly a Jerusalem cross was unbelievably offensive. And now it's okay to have

this Nazi symbol and no one in the Democratic Party has a problem after they had a big issue with Hegseth having a Jerusalem cross on his chest. Right.
But here's the bigger, broader point, Megan.

There's a through line. Jay Jones, Virginia, Mondame, New York, and then let's go north to Maine with Plattner.

What is going on in the Democratic Party where you've got each one of these scandals in each one of these states, and yet not in one instance is anyone saying that's a bridge too far?

It's okay that Mondami's got all these Muslim ties. It's okay that Jay Jones wants to kill his opponent and watch his children die in the mother's arms.

And it's okay to excuse all of these things, all of them, because it's not just one of Grant Plattner, because, well, it's okay.

There's the Democratic Party has a lot to account for right now, but it's not one candidate. There's a through line from the mid-Atlantic all the way up to the Northeast.

Meanwhile, can I just say they're raining down on those young Republicans? And there definitely were some racist comments in there, but they're pulling out the one that said, I'll be Hitler.

And that's the one, like, they have nothing on that guy in that. He's making a joke.
They're like,

this group of young like conservatives on campus or something says they're not going to, they're going to vote for the person who's most to the right, you know, the furthest to the right.

So the one guy jokingly responds, okay, I'll be Hitler. That's obviously a joke.
I'm not excusing all the other stuff in there. I'm stocked.

I'm not talking about that anymore because the left continues to celebrate right-wing people getting murdered. So I'm done talking about that.

But I raise it only to point out they wanted us to look at, okay, I'll be Hitler Hitler as like a serious comment that should be disqualifying for Republicans who have nothing to do with those people in that text chain.

But this guy who's the actual candidate wearing a Nazi tattoo, that's not a deal. That's fine.
We can just move right on without talking about it.

And I just want to give you one other piece of evidence. I talked about the campaign manager, but another person told the Free Beacon,

he, the candidate, Graham, what's his name, Plattner, referred to the ink as, quote, my totenkopf, referring to the Nazi symbol. So like he knew that it was a Nazi symbol and kept it there.

Go ahead, Sean. I was going to say in that politico story that you mentioned with the young Republicans, every Republican on earth had to account for those kids and denounce them, right?

Howard, do you agree with that? What do you think? Should they resign? Should they be canceled? I haven't seen one national Democrat being asked what they thought about Grant Plattner.

When Nancy Pelosi was asked about Jay Jones, and she said, that's for Virginians to decide. They get away with this because the press sort of goes, oh, nothing to see here.

Republicans all have to account when Little Timmy says something at Jefferson Middle School. But when their guy says something in the national news, it's, hey, guys, it's not our state.

It's not our problem. And it wasn't serious.
You're generally right. Although Bernie Sanders was asked about Platiner.

And he passed. Yeah.
He said,

it was a couple of years ago. He clearly doesn't mean it anymore.
Yeah. I don't know.

If he knew that it was this Nazi symbol, which according to Free Beacon, he did, that's a problem. I thought the whole defense was going to be, I didn't know I had a Nazi symbol on.

But if he actually did know and he's a history buff and he's running around with a Nazi symbol on his chest, like who would be okay with that? I mean, that genuinely does raise some concerns.

His defense, according to the Free Beacon, was he got it in Croatia while on leave. Quote, we got very inebriated and we did what Marines on Liberty do, and we decided to go get a tattoo.
Okay.

I know a lot of Marines. I don't know any with Nazi tattoos.
I don't think that is a thing that Marines do.

I think most Marines, like I'm going to go with like 99.99% of them, are anti-Nazi given their history in the Marines. But that's just me.

You know, I'm not exactly a four-star general, so I guess we'll have to leave that one floating in the air.

Okay, let's shift because I want to keep the political discussion going. Hunter Biden did another podcast.

I don't know who the guy was. I'm going to find out.
Thank you. Who the guy was.
What?

Thank you.

I've never heard of him. I never heard of him.
I love when he does these. I know.
I love the guy doing the interview. It's like,

he looks kind of disheveled. He's barely looking into the camera.
Like, it's kind of entertaining.

And the answer that was posted on Media Eye today, which is where I saw it, rambled on for four and a half minutes. It was very painful.
Hondur Biden was very disjointed. It was a very slow,

long

pause. It was like, spit it out.
So we only are going to run the last minute or so where he got on point.

Watch this. This is on Kamala Harris and her book, in which, you know, Corinne Jean-Pierre is out there defending the Biden White House.
Kamala Harris is out there dumping on it.

This is about the Kamala Harris book. Watch.

I love the fact that

my dad made the decision

that

let me tell you about loyalty. The reason that he picked Kamala Harris is because

of the fact that

he believes,

and I certainly believe, the most powerful force within the Democratic Party is and always has been the African-American women.

They're the heart and soul and the conscience of the Democratic Party.

And that's why

He thought it was so important to have,

and by the way, and she had an incredible resume and is perfectly capable of being president of the United States, and I would have gladly voted for her. Glad to say that.

But he chose her out of loyalty.

And

I just don't understand,

because I don't understand

why someone would choose

the expedient

path as it relates to that relationship. Their own political expedient.

Their own political expediency. okay so my team tells me that is tommy christopher who writes for media and is a far left dude who's literally chewing gum during the interview

which seems kind of passive aggressive but okay yeah so there he is um ripping on kamala but what it was interesting was he said it he said it in sort of a back-end way but he said she was only put in the role because she's a black woman and for her to now have the gall to turn around and attack us when she was, this is really what he's saying.

He had to add, she's qualified, of course. I would have voted for her.
But what he's really saying is she was never qualified. She got there for no reason other than her identity.

So she should STF you. That's how I read the Hunter Biden commentary.
Dan, your thoughts.

Yeah, no, I mean, there's nothing good for the Democratic Party about this. That Hunter Biden keeps popping up with these kind of rolling commentaries is just awful.
I mean, look, he's right.

That is why Joe Biden picked her. They wanted to try to increase turnout in down in the Atlanta area and in Philadelphia and Detroit and various places.

But you can't make that statement and then turn around and say, how dare she?

And, you know, the fact that Kamala Harris did not separate herself from Biden during the campaign, but now is doing it. Joe Biden's book is going to be coming out soon.

Jill Biden, I think, is going to have something coming out. They're going to go on the attack.
Hunter Biden's going to then come and defend his parents more. Like, we have not heard the last of this.

It's not helping us move forward. And then you have, as you say, Corinne Jean-Pierre saying, what? I didn't see anything, which is just insane.

But something else she's been saying makes even more sense when you are reminded of Democrat Party politics and what they prioritize in picking their top people.

We put this together since yesterday. This is just on her little book tour, Corine Jean-Pierre.
This week alone, look at SOT 24A.

As a black woman, as a person who's also LGBTQ.

As a black woman, as a black woman, I am a black woman, I am a queer woman, I am an immigrant.

Being a black woman, as a black woman myself, that is the thing that I understood as a black woman is that I meant a lot to people. because of the communities that I represented.

Whether it was women of color, black women, queer community, LGBTQ community, immigrant, and as a black woman, and I have my queerness too.

It all makes sense. Not that we didn't know what she was doing before, but this

she recognizes this is the only reason she was chosen. It's opened doors for her repeatedly in the past in Democrat Party politics.

And as she markets this book, she is touting the only flag she knows accurately she has.

It doesn't work with half the country, but half the other half of the country sits up at attention and says, Oh, let me subjugate myself.

Oh my God, you know, you're going to do the sign of the cross because she said the magic words. It's amazing.

Every single interview, truly, Mark Halperner, imagine going to promote a book that you had written about politics. That's what her book's about.
And beginning every interview with, I am white,

I'm a white man, I'm a white straight man. Did I mention I'm white? Who does that?

Well, tomorrow's episode of Next Up is already booked, but for Tuesday, here are the two people I want. I want the person who's in charge of deciding which podcast Hunter Biden should do.

And I want the publicist who prepared her talking points for her book tour, because I'm very curious about those two people. I want to know what kind of career paths they've had.

Make sure you tell them you're black. I can tell you, the person who is writing Corinne Jean-Pierre's talking points used to work for Kamala Harris.

It's pretty blatantly obvious that that's the case where they ended up because it sounds like a redux.

By the way, am I wrong that when Hunter did that interview, he used the word, I would have voted for her?

Yes, yes. Convicted.

Convicted felony, Kimpa.

Oh, okay.

Really? That's true. He didn't have that wiped away until the end, until after.
Well, that's even more.

But you know, you know, part of the problem

for Corinne, of course, is there were so many people who didn't want her to have that job from the beginning and who then when she fumbled and really struggled in the job wanted her out, but were afraid to move against her because she was a black lesbian, or is a black lesbian woman, and they were afraid of offending different parts of the party.

The whole time she had that job, the foundation under her was non-existent because nobody thought she was qualified or that she was good at the job within the White House.

I'm probably the only person that believes that she didn't ever know what Biden was doing because, from what I could tell, she never had access.

She may be the only person that can say she didn't see Joe Biden's decline because I don't think she ever had access to him in the first place.

That's an interesting point. It's a very uncomfortable truth for people in the Biden White House and for the Democratic Party at large, which is she's unambiguously unqualified.

Not because she's a black woman, but just because she was. And it did a disservice.

The irony is they were trying to elevate the concept of having a black woman press secretary and did a massive disservice to the many qualified people who could have done the job, who happened to be black women.

She's just not one of them. And queer, please, Mark.
Yeah. And queer.
She's just not one of them.

And it really, I mean, you know, ask anyone, Sean's colleagues, anyone who's had that job, she was the worst White House press secretary by a lot. Yeah.
Oh.

Well, there was a debate about this on a left-wing podcast that I want to raise with Sean in a minute. But before I move off of Corrine Jean-Pierre, yeah, you'll love this.
Jen Saki's got thoughts.

Before I move off of this, there is an interesting piece

on Corine Jean-Pierre and her accusing Anita Dunn

of

being a racist. Without naming a name.

Yeah, but it's very clearly Anita Dunn.

Here's what, here's, here's the report. Let's see.
She accuses her of mistreating people of color.

Jean-Pierre writing about this article In April 2024, the New York Post printed this story, Inside the Failed White House coup to oust Biden press secretary Corrine Jean-Pierre.

She's so excited somebody finally wrote something about her. She's like, this made her book.
She's like, I'm in an article. See, people are out to get me.

Dunn was orchestrating a campaign to push me out.

The quotes are not around. the name Dunn.
They're just around orchestrating a campaign to push me out.

After the women clashed in October 2023 over who should join Biden on a trip to Israel after Hamas's attack,

this woman, she said, she doesn't name her as Dunn, but we know it's Dunn, said, I shouldn't travel. Quote, it will be very dangerous.
You're a mother. You're a woman.

Another colleague, she said, a man who had experience in war-torn regions, could go in my place.

Let's see. Immediately upon leaving her, I returned to my office and sent an email to the chief of staff and the deputy chief of staff.

I CC'd her and wrote that I'd just been told I shouldn't go to Israel, one of the most important trips the president would likely take during his tenure.

Minutes after I hit send, Dunn swept into my office, bypassing my assistant and flinging open my door. She proceeded to scream at me: You want to go on this trip? Fine.

I don't know why you want to do this, but it's yours. Go.
That's my dramatic reenactment. I wasn't the only woman on the White House staff who had negative experiences with this person.

She had spoken dismissively to female colors of the administration, especially those who were also people of color. She doesn't like black women, black women, black women.

A white woman once said to me that it was uncomfortable being on emails with her and witnessing her tone and the way she addressed women of color.

It was that bickering, backbiting, and behind-the-scenes machinations, says Corine Jean-Pierre, that led her to question: do I really want to be in a party that treats people this way?

And then she says, now that I can speak fully from the heart, I have an answer.

After being a party insider for 20 years, I now believe I can fight harder for my country from outside the Democratic Party than from within it. From here on, I am politically an independent.

And then she adds, people felt seen when they saw me at the podium. Woman of color, black woman, queer community, LGBTQ, immigrant.
They felt seen and that mattered to me. Oh, we know.
We know.

Dan, good, good luck to you guys. I mean, honestly, like, how, how do you go forward with these people as representatives who are all identity and no substance?

Well, and it goes to the fact that Mark said this earlier in the show, which is the party, the people who want to win elections know we have to change.

We have to stop playing these identity politics, but the party doesn't want to do it.

And I mean, it just, all this is doing is showing that not just was Joe Biden struggling at the end, but the inner workings of the White House were a complete mess.

I mean, it's just, there's nothing good that's coming out of this that makes you as an American or as a Democrat have confidence.

And as we think about going forward, you know, you want candidates to staff their campaigns with the most qualified, not checking all of these boxes and then layering people with other people.

It's just not the way to run a campaign or a government. No.
Okay, we will go back to Gen Saki on our friend Sean Spicer in one minute. Quick break first.
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Back with me now, a bunch of straight white dudes, Mark Halperin, Sean Spicer, and Dan Turrentine. It's important.

Assuming facts, not in evidence, Your Honor.

Mark, we want people to feel represented. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaking of representing, Sean Spicer represented the United States of America at the lectern in the White House press briefing room for a time. It was a time that preceded Jensaki's time there.

Jensaki went on with this lunatic woman named Jennifer Welsh, who's getting in the circulation for being a very nasty, like really absolutely foul-mouthed Trump critic.

And that's really her only qualification because I think she used to do some show on like gardening or something stupid. And gardening's nice.
It's not dumb, but

she seems like

not a good time. Let's just say that.
Okay,

she went on that podcast and Saki had some thoughts on you, Sean Sean Spicer. She tried to pay you a compliment and then no, watch.
Oh, I thought we were going somewhere else.

I'm enraged every time I see Caroline Levin, who prays before she goes out there and lies her fat ass off.

So she goes out there and lies and it's propaganda after propaganda. Is there no check on that? I guess there's no law that the press secretary has to be honest, but does that break your heart to see

what it's been turned into? It does. And I say this as obviously I worked in Democratic politics for 20-something 20-something years.
I'm not shy about my views.

But even for people who like Dana Perino, or dare I say even Sean Spicer, I don't know if I should use them as an example. It's a very different briefing room now than it was then.

Dana Perino is probably a better example of this, right? I disagree with Bush on a bazillion things, right?

But you had to go in there and answer questions from the same type of reporters, and often the same reporters I had to answer questions from. What it feels like, it is diminishing the job.

It is diminishing the role of the press secretary, the honor of being in that job,

which is speaking on behalf of the United States of America.

All right, Spicer. She almost paid you a compliment.
And then no, your thoughts on how the GOAT, Caroline Levitt, is bringing dishonor to this position in her view.

Yeah, so let's start with this.

First of all, Caroline is a, I don't mean to inject this, but to make fun of her body size, which is not true, actually, I thought was for a bunch of folks on the left that take pride in this kind of stuff, that was actually rather uncalled for.

She's a very beautiful woman. I don't think that that's ever been.

Angie Sullivan, who said it in her wildest dreams. But I also think she looked like Caroline Levitt.
That's right. I don't know what TV she's looking at, but that's just simply not true.

So that was really uncalled for and false.

Number two,

look, I think that for Jen Saki, who had the phrase circle back, I mean, to get up there and talk about integrity at the podium is a bit rich, right?

And so I just don't, I find the full fascination that these guys covered up one of the biggest issues in modern history in terms of the physical and mental decline of the president of the United States and has the gall to come on and talk about how other people do the job.

I think she should sit this one out and talk about something else.

Yeah, I agree.

She also told us how to qualify Corinne Jean-Pierre to connect the segments. She said that she was the most qualified person to do the job, which by every account was a lie.

So I don't really need to get lectured by Jen on truth and integrity and all that. She has a track record that speaks for itself.

No, and then she continued her lying when she went to MSNBC, which is what you have to do to get hired there. So she's, yeah, in no position.

I want to move on. I saved a little time for this.
We've been seeing such vile conduct out of the No Kings stuff,

and a lot of it has been focused on wanting Trump dead or celebrating Charlie's murder. And there's another one of those ladders in this clip that we have here of somebody celebrating Charlie's death.

Hold on, it was just in front of me. Okay, here it is.
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's okay.
This is actually from the University of Arizona, and there's a turning point USA reps.

They're there and they're setting up. And this woman walks by and listen to what she says: 33A here.

Hey, Nazis, can you set up somewhere where I can avoid you easily? Yeah, thank you. Have a great day.

Watch your neck.

And you heard the guy was so polite. Yeah, thank you.
Have a nice day. That's all he said.
Watch your neck. Fuck you, Nazi.
Watch your neck. We've seen so much of this, and I really do.

I genuinely do not on this show just bring up one instance of bad behavior and try to tar an entire side of it because it's not fair. But somebody said something

to me privately, and I was like, that's a very interesting point. You've got these young people like that gal who have been clearly radicalized, you know, into saying something like, watch your neck.

And then you've got these older people at these No Kings rallies who are wearing the 86, 47 sweatshirts and calling for ICE agents to get shot.

And I don't, they don't consume the same media. Like the older people are watching MSNBC.
And the younger people, I think, are getting all their news from social media. So what, what's happening? Why?

How can, like if one group was going that way, I could kind of understand it and I would know who to blame. And if and the other, same, but like it's both.

It seems to have crossed a wide swath of the Democrat Party.

And I just have to say, like, it's deeply concerning to me because like crazy left, I can understand and I can deal with and I can argue against, but like

wanting to see Republicans dead and celebrating Charlie's murder is a totally different kettle of fish. So sorry, Dan, but I'll ask you that one first.

I know that's not you. I mean,

I think one of the things that the No Kings rally, you know, kind of sadly showed is just this continued focus on Donald Trump, the hatred of Donald Trump.

It's like a group therapy session, the way people were kind of all together. Like, yeah, we all still hate him, but the party is not moving forward.

There's no, I mean, like, if the rally was on healthcare, right? Like, this is why we're shutting the government down because we really want to fight for you.

But instead, it's just this continued animation of like the fever will break. Like at some point, you will realize your mistake.
You will realize that we are right.

You were wrong and you're going to come back to us. And, you know, whether it's celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk or just this like, oops, if Trump happens to get shot, that's too bad.

It's just they cannot move on from their obsession with him. It's holding the party back.
What do you think, Mark?

Well, lately, I get a lot of complaints when I talk about Trump derangement syndrome.

But I think it's, you know, it is the explanation of our time.

And as I said before, the party, whether they're MSNBC watchers or TikTok watchers or college students, they're addicted to hatred of Trump.

That's their animation. That's their North Star.
That's what gets them engaged in the national town square. And

it's, I think it's personally very

self-destructive, but it's also...

It's also not, as Dan said, it's not leading to a rebuilding of the party as a party focused on the future.

I understand a lot of the issues that upset them. I don't understand why they're so upset about construction on the White House Grams, but I understand a lot of the issues that upset them.

But they're channeling it into just a level of vitriol

and an addiction to being obsessed with Trump and hating Trump and Charlie that I've never seen anything like it.

And I don't, as much as I think about it and talk to people and study it, I don't really understand it.

I don't want to understand it. I mean, here's the difference.
One thing to hate Trump. It's another thing, Megan, as you said, this isn't one clip.

I see them over over and over again in the last few days after the No Kings rally. They want people dead.
They want them killed. That's a whole new level of wrong.

And I think that this is, you know, again, I go back. It's a through line.
Jay Jones, Mondami, Grant Plattner. There is becoming an acceptance on the left that it's okay to root for death.

I'll just leave you with one piece of good news.

This hit in the Wall Street Journal. a couple days ago.
In the month of September, compared with a year earlier, sales of the the Bible jumped 36%.

That's clearly a post-Charlie surge. People do feel deeply moved by his message of faith, and I don't think they're all Republicans.

I do believe that there are Democrats in there, and those are the people

who are going to bring us forward. Those are going to have to be the leaders.
I do believe that. People of faith, no matter whether young, old, red, blue, doesn't matter.

But those are the people who are going to resonate because their message is infused with a special power, a special magic, a special allure,

and something that's not so much about ourselves. So, if you're not one of them and you need one, go out and get one now for Charlie.
Mark, Sean, Dan, love you all. Thanks so much for being here.

And tomorrow,

we'll have Winsome Earl Sears. See you guys then.

Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show: No BS, No Agenda, and No Fear.

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