Dems Try to Smear Trump with Epstein Emails, and Culture Shift Right, with Batya Ungar-Sargon and Barry Morgenstein | Ep. 1192

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Speaker 13 Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Speaker 13 Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show, a big day of news.

Speaker 13 The Democrats are releasing more Jeffrey Epstein documents, trying to tie the disgraced former financier to President Trump. But there are already signs it's not going to work.

Speaker 13 We'll tell you exactly what's in the emails.

Speaker 13 Plus, the woman kicked out of Gold's gym for confronting a man pretending to be a woman in the woman's locker room is now making her case to a far-left, disgusting, gross, horrific politician named Scott Weiner in San Francisco.

Speaker 13 That's going about as you would expect it to, but it's on tape and we'll show it to you. Joining me now to react to all of this is Batya Angar Sargon.
She's host of Batya over on NewsNation now.

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Speaker 13 Batya, great to see you.

Speaker 14 Thanks so much for having me, Megan. It is such an honor to be here with you.

Speaker 13 Oh, I love when you come on. Okay, so there's a lot finally to get to because it's been kind of a slow news time, but it's not today.

Speaker 13 The Epstein documents have been subpoenaed by the House Oversight Committee.

Speaker 13 And this is a basically kind of a middle finger to, you know, Trump and Pam Bondi, who didn't want anything more released, but there was enough Republican and Democrat pushback that they did issue subpoenas on the Epstein estate and on the DOJ as well.

Speaker 13 But most of the documents that we're talking about today have come from the Epstein estate, some 33,000 of them. And the Democrats are now salivating over the latest releases.

Speaker 13 And I'll read what they say, but my overall take on this, Batia, is

Speaker 13 why didn't Trump just release these? Just release them, just release them, right?

Speaker 13 Like now he's in the position of being like singled out as the only one, allegedly, as opposed to one of a slew of names. The Democrats, of course, are going to make a ton of hay over it.

Speaker 13 And I don't know that there's any there there whatsoever, but I can cede that they sound bad. They don't sound good.
If I were a Democrat, I could easily make some hay with these, which they will.

Speaker 13 They won't be doing fair and balanced reporting on these over on MS or CNN, etc. Right.
So it's like, to me, this is a self-inflicted wound by the Trump administration, and it was unnecessary.

Speaker 13 Okay, so here's where things stand. There are three emails that are getting a lot of attention.
Hold on.

Speaker 13 The teeniest, tiny little

Speaker 13 font. It's a very small font.

Speaker 13 Look at it. Look at the report.
That's a nice big font up here. And then the teeny, tiny font.
I like, honestly, even when I was 20, I'm not sure I could have read that without my readers.

Speaker 13 Okay, here we go. There's one.

Speaker 13 This one's from Ghelene Maxwell. Sorry, from Jeffrey Epstein to Ghylaine Maxwell, his right-hand woman and sometimes affair partner, dated Saturday, April 2nd, 2011.

Speaker 13 And he writes to her, I want you to realize that that dog that hasn't barked is Trump. Insert name of victim that's been redacted.
That'll come back in our discussion. So just victim.

Speaker 13 Spent hours at my house with him. He has never once been mentioned.
Police chief, et cetera. I'm 75% there.

Speaker 13 Now, I don't know what I'm 75% there means, other than possibly he's 75% ready to tell authorities about Trump or something, but this is before Trump was running for office.

Speaker 13 He was just a businessman and celebrity apprentice host back then, an apprentice host. And

Speaker 13 this is post Jeffrey Epstein's sweetheart deal, you know, that he cut with the Trump administration

Speaker 13 a couple years later.

Speaker 13 But the trouble had arisen back in 2008, 2009, originally.

Speaker 13 So I'm just trying to get my facts like straight of when the actual deal was cut under the Trump administration, Alex Acosta, but the trouble started back in 2008 and 2009 when he first got arrested.

Speaker 13 So there's been like a sequence of events.

Speaker 13 In any event, this is him saying that allegedly this is the dog that won't hunt, that some victims spent hours at Epstein's house with Trump, and Trump has never once been mentioned by anyone, including the police chief.

Speaker 13 That's one. I guess we can just start there.

Speaker 13 The fact that the word victim is redacted is quite telling, Batia.

Speaker 13 And what we're seeing from House Republicans who are responding to the Democrats' immediate attempt to try to play this up is the following.

Speaker 13 House Oversight Committee tweets out the following, or at least the GOP. Why did Democrats cover up the name?

Speaker 13 of the alleged victim when the estate, Jeffrey Epstein's estate, which produced this document, did not redact it in the redacted documents provided to the committee.

Speaker 13 So this is a Democrat redaction, not an Epstein estate redaction. And they wrote, it's because this victim, Virginia Duffrey, they out,

Speaker 13 publicly said she never witnessed wrongdoing by President Trump. Democrats are trying to create a fake narrative to slander President Trump.
Shame on them. Just for context, Julie K.

Speaker 13 Brown, the Miami Herald reporter who's broken tons of stories about Epstein, says the three emails were written during critical times in Epstein's life. We'll get to the other two.

Speaker 13 But as for this one, in 2011, she says it was written when the FBI was beginning to suspect that the crimes Epstein committed in Florida in the early 2000s went beyond those he committed in Palm Beach.

Speaker 13 So that's where it stands now.

Speaker 13 Because

Speaker 13 they were sniffing around him in 2008. I believe he signed that sweetheart deal in 2009.
And then it all came back again

Speaker 13 in like 2015, leading into 16. Trying to remember when it was, he was first added as having done much, much more.
But in any event, the original trouble was 08, 09.

Speaker 13 And she's pointing out he's cut this deal in Palm Beach, and the FBI by 2011 was starting to suspect that those crimes were just the tip of the iceberg.

Speaker 13 So what do you make of the redaction of the alleged victim from this very, very damning email, Batia?

Speaker 14 It's so hilarious to me because they knew if they left her name in, this would be totally dismissed because she has been revealed to be a serial fabricator who had to literally recant her testimony against Alan Dershowitz.

Speaker 14 She's made up so many things. Her book was initially supposed to be a novel because so much of it was just absolute fabrications.
Unfortunately, she took her own life.

Speaker 14 It's very sad, obviously very troubled. But the idea that this is somehow like a smoking gun for Trump, I think is so utterly ridiculous.

Speaker 14 To see the Democrats racing to take the word of an actual pedophile, Jeffrey Epstein, just so they can smear Donald Trump. It's just so gross.

Speaker 14 It's like when they went to the trough of Michael Cohen and elevated him as some sort of truth teller because they thought it would hurt Donald Trump.

Speaker 14 I just think if this is all they could find in there on Donald Trump and Epstein, Trump is in a really good place. We know that he kicked Epstein out of Mar-a-Lago because he thought he was a creep.

Speaker 14 So the idea that it's somehow some smoking gun, you know, that he thought he was a creep, I think is so totally ridiculous.

Speaker 14 The replacement of her name with the word victim tells you everything you need to know. So much of this story is just classic Me Too overreach.

Speaker 14 There was that ridiculous press conference where they had woman after woman after woman come up and say, I was a Jeffrey Epstein victim.

Speaker 14 Half of them, Megan, met Jeffrey Epstein after they were already adults. You know, the idea that they are the victims of pedophilia, it's just, everyone should read Michael Tracy's reporting on this.

Speaker 14 He's just been absolutely, absolutely great, just holding their feet to the fire. And it's just so funny to see the right running with what is a classic Me Too Overreach story

Speaker 14 because they thought the Democrats were sort of holding back on them. It turns out they are now.
That redaction tells you everything you need to know.

Speaker 13 The Virginia Duffrey thing is amazing. The fact that they redacted that is just incredible to me.
First of all, she outed herself as an Epstein victim.

Speaker 13 Like, you don't have to protect the identity of a victim when she's outed herself as a victim. Like, and they know this rule because

Speaker 13 I hate to bring her up, but let's just take Gretchen Carlson, who claims she was a victim of Roger Ailes's. And

Speaker 13 CNN and the Democrats, they had her testify before Congress. They didn't say, oh, witnessed in shadow because she outed herself as an alleged victim.

Speaker 13 And Virginia Duffrey has been, before she died, all over the news. She wrote a memoir, like she gave tons of interviews.

Speaker 13 Why would they redact her name if that is, in fact, the name, as the GOP members of the House Oversight Committee are saying,

Speaker 13 given the fact that she'd already been outed? So this is ridiculous. And it does suggest there was an ulterior motive.

Speaker 13 Here's the thing about Virginia Duffrey, and I've said this every time her name has come up since we launched this show in 2020. In 2020, I had on Alan Dershowitz right after we launched.

Speaker 13 He's a longtime friend, and I saw him come under fire by Virginia Dufrey, and I knew it was a lie, Batya. I've known him a long time.

Speaker 13 And when you hear a denial that you know is true, it sounds very different from a denial that you think is not true.

Speaker 13 Just by case in point, we did a thing, a report yesterday morning on AM Update about those two baseball players who were accused of throwing balls instead of strikes in certain innings to let people bet on the pitch.

Speaker 13 And the MLB, to its credit, saw that certain betting would go up in a certain inning on this one closer and this one starter for this team.

Speaker 13 And they conducted an investigation to see if there was some funny business going on. And sure enough, they concluded there was.
They brought in, they referred it to law enforcement.

Speaker 13 Now these two guys have been charged. Their denials are both like, he is innocent.
He would never do anything to undermine his chances in a game. That is not what a truth teller sounds like.

Speaker 13 A truth teller says, I never threw a pitch in coordination with any bet anywhere.

Speaker 13 I always threw my best pitch and the appropriate one for the moment and never reaped any or sought any reward therefore. That, okay,

Speaker 13 the denials that Alan Dershowitz issued to Virginia Duffrey sounded like this. I never slept with her ever, anywhere.
I never slept with any woman other than my wife ever, anywhere.

Speaker 13 And there will never be a recording or any proof whatsoever that I did because I didn't. I am factually innocent of the charges against me.

Speaker 13 And I demand that she come forward with proof that I was where she says I was on these dates.

Speaker 13 When she didn't, he produced his own date books showing he couldn't have been in the places she was alleging.

Speaker 13 And here is how the Virginia Duffre allegation, keep in mind, we're talking about this because now it appears she's being used by the Democrats as Trump's alleged accuser.

Speaker 13 That this is how Virginia Duffrey decided to ruin Alan Dershowitz's life.

Speaker 13 The first email between Duffrey and and a journalist named Sharon Churcher happened in May of 2011. Okay, right around the time this email between Epstein and Ghelaine Maxwell happened, by the way.

Speaker 13 And this journalist was trying to help Virginia Guffray sell a book that she was writing then about her experiences with Epstein. Guffray writes the following email to Sharon Churcher.
Hi, Sharon.

Speaker 13 We're drawing up a contract through her agent right now and getting busy to meet my deadline. I don't know whose her agent is and getting busy to meet my deadline.

Speaker 13 Just wondering if you have information on you from when you and I were doing interviews about the JE story.

Speaker 13 I wanted to put the names of some of the assholes, I mean, oops, I mean to say pedos that Jeffrey Epstein sent me to.

Speaker 13 With everything going on, my brain feels like mush and it would be a great deal of help. Churcher responded, Don't forget Alan Dershowitz.
We all suspect Alan is a pedo.

Speaker 13 And though no proof of that, you probably met him when he was hanging out with J.E.

Speaker 13 That is what was behind the Juffrey accusation that ruined Alan's life. People still think he was an Epstein sex trafficker.
It's a fucking lie.

Speaker 13 And while I don't doubt Virginia Juffrey that she fell within the crosshairs of Jeffrey Epstein and was used and abused by him because he was a serial user and abuser,

Speaker 13 I don't believe one word she said about Alan Dershowitz. And she lied repeatedly about the age she was when she had encounters with the Epstein connections and so on.

Speaker 13 That's all been caught, like ages she would know that were because she was off by several years that would have made the difference between whether she was a minor or an adult and so on.

Speaker 13 And that's the woman who now the Democrats want to use as I guess their smoking gun against Trump. And here's just one more piece.
Okay, one more thing about Juffre.

Speaker 13 She published a posthumous memoir. She killed herself.
She took her, died by suicide last year. And she was working on a memoir at the time.

Speaker 13 And she had a co-writer who was ghostwriting it for her, Amy Wallace. And here is what her posthumous memoir titled Nobody's Girl says about Trump, writes about Trump.

Speaker 13 She describes meeting Trump once at Mar-a-Lago, where her father worked, but does not accuse Trump of wrongdoing.

Speaker 13 Trump, quote, could not have been friendlier, Juffre said, adding that he offered to help her find babysitting work.

Speaker 13 Then the co-author, Amy Wallace, who finished the book off, was asked whether Duffrey ever accused Trump of wrongdoing during their private conversations.

Speaker 13 Wallace answered, quote, she, Virginia, never talked about him in any sense that he was involved in any of this, end quote.

Speaker 13 Then she goes on to say, quote, as far as she knew, and again, she was there for two plus years, meaning Virginia, but as far as she, Virginia, knew, Trump was not involved in the ring of trafficking that Epstein was working.

Speaker 13 That is why the Democrats redacted the name Virginia Duffrey from this alleged smoking gun email.

Speaker 14 100%. And all of this is why I am against the release of the full Epstein files.
I understand the arguments for it. Don't give the Democrats the power to make these ridiculous redactions.

Speaker 14 But at the same time, Megan, as you point out,

Speaker 14 Alan Dershowitz did not recover from that fully. There are still people out there who think he is a pedophile, despite the fact that she was forced by court to recant that.

Speaker 14 And so how many other names are in there of people who are completely innocent, but whose lives will be destroyed when this tranche of documents, some of them written by Epstein himself, a serial pedophile, a terrible person whose word should not be trusted or worth anything,

Speaker 14 when that gets out there, I just feel that in the court of public opinion, there are people who will be judged and will never be able to defend themselves despite being totally innocent, kind of in the way that Trump is now being smeared.

Speaker 14 Now, we can say, look, this is all like obvious nonsense. He obviously didn't do anything.
There's no evidence there.

Speaker 14 But there will always be people who believe that he did do something because of all of this, just like there are still people who watch the mainstream media.

Speaker 14 Just yesterday, Megan, someone said to me, well, he did say people on both sides about neo-Nazis. Oh Lord.

Speaker 14 It's 2025 and they still believe that this is like a mainstream person, a person who actually is, you know, in the political world who, honest to God, was not lying to me.

Speaker 14 Like honest to God still believes that. And I just feel that it is unfair to people to do that to them because they will not recover, just like Alan Dershowitz's reputation never fully recovered.

Speaker 13 If you're going to do it, you're going to have to release the victims' names. I've said this before.
This is utter bullshit.

Speaker 13 But speaking of Gretchen Carlson, when the Fox News investigation went down around Roger Ailes, I remember asking, is he going to know the names of the people who came forward?

Speaker 13 And my lawyer said to me, yes, he has the right to know to defend himself. And I said, that's fair.
You know, and I was totally like, I didn't want to blow up my relationship with him.

Speaker 13 I got sucked into that whole thing, but I understood fully he had the right to defend himself and that all of us were going to have our names on the line if, in fact, we came forward.

Speaker 13 That is part of the deal. It's like they, it's all, it's kind of bizarre.
I understand protecting children. I totally understand protecting the identities of children.

Speaker 13 But like, honestly, even just the whole wide net that prevents sexual assault accusers from being named is strange to me. I'm sorry.
I definitely don't want them re-victimized.

Speaker 13 I've talked to countless numbers of women who are in this boat. But these guys have the right to confront their accuser.

Speaker 13 And in today's day and age, where we do trial by media, they have the right to have the name out there so people can assess a person's credibility. It's just a question of basic fairness.

Speaker 13 Let's keep going on the two other emails. Let me get my, let's go back to a little tiny, little Lilliputian font.

Speaker 14 I'll just say very quickly, Megan,

Speaker 14 some of the victims, according to Michael Tracy's reporting, don't want their names out there because they settled for millions of dollars, okay? Right.

Speaker 14 So, you know, there's another piece of this as well.

Speaker 13 Right. All right.
The Jeffrey Epstein money train was no question an allure to many women who may or may not have been caught up in his disgusting behavior.

Speaker 13 I mean, we'll never know, but there was a period there where they were doling out money like it was candy to any woman who came forward and could prove that she had some relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 13 That doesn't mean they were all victims.

Speaker 13 Okay, so here's another one.

Speaker 13 This is December 16th, 2015. I think that says 16th.
So, wait, we'll start with, no, yeah, December 15th, Tuesday, December 15th at 8 p.m. And this is from Michael Wolf,

Speaker 13 the author. He wrote to Epstein.

Speaker 13 This is when Trump was running for the nomination in December 15 of December 15th of 2015.

Speaker 13 He writes, I hear CNN planning to ask Trump tonight about his relationship with you, either on air or in the scrum afterward.

Speaker 13 And then Epstein responds a couple hours later, if we were able to craft an answer for him, what do you think it should be?

Speaker 13 And then Michael Wolfe responds to him on 12-16 the next day, I think you should let him hang himself.

Speaker 13 If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable PR and political currency. You can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you.

Speaker 13 Or if it really looks like he could win, you could save him, generating a debt.

Speaker 13 Of course, it is possible that when asked, he'll say Jeffrey is a great guy and has gotten a raw deal and is a victim of political correctness, which is to be outlawed in a Trump regime.

Speaker 13 Okay, so what does that mean?

Speaker 13 What my conclusion from this is Michael Wolf is gross. We knew that yesterday.
We'll know it tomorrow. And by the way, we'll know it especially tomorrow.
And that's all I'm going to say.

Speaker 13 We have a bit of a tease for what's coming up on this show, making good on a promise I made to the audience long ago on Epstein. But in any event, here he is giving PR advice.
I mean, whatever.

Speaker 13 He's not a good guy. I'm sure Jeffrey Epstein needed PR advice by this point in his life, and I'm sure somebody was going to provide it to him.

Speaker 13 But that's what Wolf was doing, trying to get leverage over the possible next president of the United States. It all came to nothing, but this has got Trump's critics salivating.

Speaker 13 And then I'll just read you the last one, which is the most recent exchange. This is now from 2019, which is when Epstein got arrested.

Speaker 13 This is from Epstein to Michael Wolf, January 31st, 2019.

Speaker 13 Victim, redacted, Mar-a-Lago.

Speaker 13 Redact, redact, redact. I don't know what's in there.
It doesn't say victim, so he's saying something else.

Speaker 13 Comma, or period. No idea what was redacted.
Then he writes, Trump said he asked me to resign. Never a member, ever.

Speaker 13 So he's trying to say Trump wanted me to resign from Mar-a-Lago, but I was never a member of Mar-a-Lago. Of course, he knew about the girls as he asked Ghillain to stop.

Speaker 13 Now, that's the most incriminating thing that's in any of these emails, but we have no idea what it means. Of course, he knew about the girls.
He asked Ghillain to stop. Stop what?

Speaker 13 Is this Trump found out that Epstein liked him young, something Trump has said himself on camera, and he went to Ghelane to say, whatever you're doing, stop, because that doesn't make Trump look bad.

Speaker 13 Though it may be inconsistent with Trump's denials of knowing, you know, much at all about what Epstein was doing. I don't know.
I haven't poured through Trump's specifics on that.

Speaker 13 But this is ambiguous. However, this is kind of what made me say, Wouldn't it be better for Trump if he just said release it all? I'm not worried about any of this.

Speaker 13 Rather than letting it come out piecemeal, they discovered it from the Epstein estate, and Trump had clearly directed Bondi not to produce anything.

Speaker 13 Like, if I were a Democrat, to be honest, Batya, I'd be blowing this up and asking over and over again what it means.

Speaker 14 It's so interesting because to me, that sounds exactly like something we already knew, which is it's been reported that the reason he asked Epstein to stop coming to Mar-a-Lago was because he would hit on the daughters of the members.

Speaker 14 Like that, that was like out there reported. So I don't see how this is incriminating at all.

Speaker 14 It suggests that Trump, like you said, knew that Jeffrey Epstein liked them young and didn't approve of it. So we don't know when Jeffrey was talking about in that moment.
So I don't really see this.

Speaker 14 And honestly, I think Trump's instincts are so spot on about this because to me, it seems like all of the energy around the Jeffrey Epstein files is really coming from Democrats who hate Trump and hate Trump voters.

Speaker 14 And then people who are in the content business for whom before Trump was elected, this was a really big topic. This generated a lot of interest from people.

Speaker 14 But now that Trump is the president, if you look at public opinion polling of Republicans, they're just not that interested in this.

Speaker 14 And I think Trump just feels like he could ride this out and why feed it because it's only his enemies making hay out of it.

Speaker 14 And the mainstream media just does not have that same power that it used to have. Megan, you have all that power now to set the agenda.
So I think that's kind of maybe how he's seeing it.

Speaker 13 Yep. I mean, I understand that rationale.

Speaker 13 Just for the record, Trump has said he stopped speaking to Epstein because Epstein stole workers from Mar-a-Lago's spa. Now, that is what happened with Virginia Duffrey.

Speaker 13 Virginia was a worker in the Mar-a-Lago spa, and Jeffrey Epstein did steal her to go work for him. So, Trump is saying that's why he's not leaning into the he was sniffing around young girls.

Speaker 13 And so, I told him he had to leave Mar-a-Lago story. There's another story that he broke up with Epstein because they were buzz.
There's no question they were very close for more than 10 years,

Speaker 13 which is what makes me believe Trump was on the Epstein plane and at Epstein's house. Of course, they were very good friends.

Speaker 13 But there's another story that Epstein

Speaker 13 took Trump to go see a property with him that Epstein was thinking of buying out of bankruptcy. And he wanted Trump to advise him on the property.
And instead of advising him, Trump bought it.

Speaker 13 He bought it out from under Epstein. So I don't know why they broke up, but we're having to relive all of this nonsense because

Speaker 13 the whole, there's a number of reasons why, because

Speaker 13 Trump and several Trump accolades or acolytes have made a very big deal out of Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, I don't think you can absolve Trump of that at all, Batia.

Speaker 13 It's like Dan Bongino and Cash Patel were the two top Epstein, you know, theory pushers.

Speaker 13 I don't call it a conspiracy theory because I actually, they might, it might have very well been onto something, you know, that there was a cover-up of Epstein.

Speaker 13 And then that's why it was so shocking when Trump got into power and then said, what story? What are you talking about? This is a nothing burger.

Speaker 13 Trump had not been out in front on it as the people he hired to run, like the FBI. You know, it's not like they put them in charge of HHS, you know, like the FBI.

Speaker 13 So

Speaker 13 that's how Republicans got into this because it was buried under Biden.

Speaker 13 They didn't understand why we didn't get any answers. And then they thought when Trump took over, we would.
And instead, Trump did what Biden had done, which was there's no there, there.

Speaker 13 I'm not releasing anything on this. And some Republicans are still burned by it.
You know, MTG spoke with her last week. She's still out there saying, I demand answers on this.

Speaker 13 I want to see all the files. A couple of other Republicans are with her, like Massey and some others.

Speaker 13 But you're right. The reason that Republicans have lost interest for the most part in this is because the Democrats took it as their own and like they do with everything, went too far.

Speaker 13 It changed from like a genuine search for truth, which I think Republicans really wanted, into just a political weapon to try to bring Trump down, which is what they do with everything.

Speaker 13 And Republicans are fucking over that game.

Speaker 14 Yeah, definitely. And I think that that press conference, was it two months ago, three months ago, where you had

Speaker 13 to go to the bottom?

Speaker 14 Yeah, and Thomas Massey with this parade of,

Speaker 14 it was so sordid. And,

Speaker 14 you know, the promise of salacious details and then the women saying, actually, we're going to make our own list. You know, like the whole thing was so

Speaker 14 exactly.

Speaker 14 And it just seemed like, you know, there was a lot like obvious, obvious money grubbing, obvious, you know, coming together of the two sides because both sides are see themselves as Trump's political opponents and enemies.

Speaker 14 The politicization, the money aspect of it. These women who were grown-ups when they met Jeffrey Epstein talking about themselves like they were children at the time.

Speaker 14 To me, that's really off-putting. It's kind of a slap in the face to the actual victims.

Speaker 14 The Virginia Duffrey aspect, where there was just lie upon lie upon lie. Like the idea that this is kind of something

Speaker 14 that's going to bring Trump down with his own base, with the other side, I just find it to be all so sordid.

Speaker 13 Moreover, you know, Jeffrey Epstein, there are countless, countless numbers of women, young women, who were brought into his houses and to his island and paid for, quote, a massage with a happy ending,

Speaker 13 for lack of a better term. I mean, countless numbers of women.
And he did like them young. And there were several young women who he did this to who were minors, who were underage.

Speaker 13 There's just no question about that. That is a true fact about Jeffrey Epstein.
But that is not a true fact about Donald Trump.

Speaker 13 And if Donald Trump allegedly liked the barely legal type, we would know, Batia, we would know.

Speaker 13 We know virtually everything about the man's sex life, unfortunately. And we would know if he had a penchant for the super young girls at this point.
Like, he ran the Miss Universe contest.

Speaker 13 Like, yes, we heard a story about him possibly going backstage into the dressing room at least once.

Speaker 13 Not great, not particularly shocking given how Trump was when he was younger, but we have not seen some slew of young women come forward to say, me too, on Donald Trump molesting them or having paid for sex with them when they were barely legal or otherwise.

Speaker 13 It just hasn't happened.

Speaker 14 Yeah, in fact, at that same press conference, the lawyer for one of the, for a group of the women actually said Jeffrey Epstein would prey upon women when they were underage, true and disgusting and horrible.

Speaker 14 And then the lawyer said, and when they came of age and he was no longer interested in them, he would then pass them on. So there was no pedophilia ring.

Speaker 14 There was a pedophile who did unspeakable things to vulnerable girls and then they would age out of Jeffrey Epstein's pedophilic interests at which point he would then start to pass them around to his friends, meaning that there were not actual crimes committed by anybody beyond, there's no pedophile ring.

Speaker 14 There's a pedophile and then a bunch of friends who were getting massages at that point from women who were no longer underage. This is from the lawyer at that press conference.

Speaker 14 So I think that that kind of dispels a lot of the like salaciousness of the story. People are like, where is the justice for the victims?

Speaker 14 The justice is one of the person, the people who did unspeakable things to them died in prison and the other one is still in prison. So like they got their justice.

Speaker 14 And the whole ring idea, I think, has been wildly blown out of proportion for the people.

Speaker 13 I don't know about ring.

Speaker 13 But there are definitely a couple of very well-connected people who have not been brought to justice. I'm not going to repeat the names here, but one of them is a very, very successful business owner.

Speaker 13 No, it's, I'm not, I'm just, I don't want to get sued, but one of them is a hugely successful business owner who seems to be a bit of a pervert. And his name is all over the papers.

Speaker 13 His connections to Epstein are very, very well known. They were connected financially.
They were connected as friends. And like, I want to know more about him.

Speaker 13 There's plenty who I want to know more about who have been publicly linked to Epstein and seem to have dodged responsibility. That's my own take on it.

Speaker 13 It's not that I'm not referring to secret names only. I know.
I'm talking about names that are in the paper.

Speaker 13 But again, like without hardcore proof, you shouldn't say their names because you don't know what it's true. But people know the names.
We've heard them many, many times.

Speaker 13 Anyway, I do think there are some who are so well connected or did such a good job of hiding their tracks that they'll never be facing real charges.

Speaker 13 As for Epstein, I've said this before, but just as a reminder, I do know somebody very, very close to this case who is in a position to know virtually everything.

Speaker 13 Not everything, but virtually everything. And this person has told me from the start, years and years ago, that Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile.

Speaker 13 This is this person's view who was there for a lot of this, but that he was into the barely legal type. Like he liked 15-year-old girls.

Speaker 13 And I realize this is disgusting. I'm definitely not trying to make an excuse for this.
I'm just giving you facts.

Speaker 13 That he wasn't into like eight-year-olds, but he liked the very young teen types. that could pass for even younger than they were, but would look legal to a passerby.

Speaker 13 And that is what I believed, and that is what I reliably was told for many years.

Speaker 13 And it wasn't until we heard from Pam Bondi that they had tens of thousands of videos of alleged, forgive me, they used to call it kiddie porn.

Speaker 13 Now they call it child sexual abuse material on his computer that for the first time I thought, oh, no, he was an actual pedophile. I mean, only a pedophile gets off on young children abuse videos.

Speaker 13 She's never clarified it. I don't know whether whether it's true.
I have to be honest, I don't really trust Pam Bondi's word on the Epstein matters anymore.

Speaker 14 Or anything else.

Speaker 13 Yeah, so I don't know what's true about him, but we have yet to see anybody come forward and say, I was a,

Speaker 13 like a, I was under 10, I was under 14 when I first came within his purview. Look, it's, you can say that's a distinction without a difference.
I think there is a difference.

Speaker 13 There's a difference between a 15-year-old and a five-year-old. You know, it's just whatever.
It's sick. Because every time we start talking about Epstein, it makes your skin crawl.
You write it.

Speaker 13 The whole thing is just disgusting.

Speaker 14 Totally.

Speaker 13 Anyway, well, what do you think? Does this stay in the news around Trump? Because I'll give you a couple of reactions here.

Speaker 13 You got

Speaker 13 Alex Berenson, who's a straight shooter, great reporter, writing, so at Real Donald Trump, quote, knew about the girls, quoting Epstein, and at Michael Wolf is an even bigger scumbag than any of us knew, and we all knew, he writes, that he was an enormous scumbag.

Speaker 13 Trump cannot bluster his way out of this. He better accept that whatever is in the files is coming out.
Good, he writes. And then there's more.

Speaker 13 Mike Cernovich on X, who's a great follow, writes, Trump broke everyone's heart with this line about.

Speaker 13 Oh, sorry, that's a different one. That's different.
That's different criticism on Trump on his H-1B visas, which we'll get to. Confuse my two stories.

Speaker 13 But there was more on Trump, just some pushback on whether this is his own fault. So I don't know, does this go away in a day or is this with us for a while?

Speaker 14 Well, honestly, I have to say, it's funny you brought up the H-1B visas. Like

Speaker 14 it's not necessarily terrible for Trump for the next 24 hours to be in Epstein news cycle because the news cycle was really bad this morning before this broke.

Speaker 14 He had this disastrous interview with Laura Ingraham in which he really, really went against what MAGA wants on the Chinese students and universities and then the H-1B visas.

Speaker 14 There's the affordability crisis, which he's not doing a great job of responding to and showing empathy for.

Speaker 14 So, you know, it's, in my view, you know, the news cycle was actually a lot worse for him before this broke because he knows how to get through a Jeffrey Epstein news cycle. Okay.

Speaker 13 Can you imagine if it shifts now if Pam Bondi's like, I'm going to release it all. I changed my mind.

Speaker 13 Exactly.

Speaker 13 Good point.

Speaker 14 Doesn't have to worry about the midterms for 48 hours, right? It's like

Speaker 13 this is a very good point. Like, maybe Trump told the House Oversight Committee to just release it.
Do it. Go ahead.
Do me a solid two and redact the name Virginia Guffrey.

Speaker 13 That'll give him a lot to chew on.

Speaker 13 Okay, let's keep going. Let's do H-1Bs and the Ingram interview because she did make a lot of news with him.
So you mentioned the Chinese students. Take a look at this, SOT3.

Speaker 16 You've said as many as 600,000 Chinese students could come to the United States.

Speaker 16 Why, sir, is that a pro-maga position when so many American kids want to go to school and there are places not for them and these universities are getting rich off Chinese money?

Speaker 17 Sure.

Speaker 12 Never said about China, but we do have a lot of people coming in from China. We always have China and other countries.
We also have a massive system of colleges and universities.

Speaker 12 And if we were to cut that in half, which perhaps makes some people happy, you would have half the colleges in the United States go out of business. Go up.
Well, I think that's a big deal.

Speaker 12 But you would have, as you know, historically, black colleges and universities would all be out of business that you would have a system of colleges and universities would be a lot of people.

Speaker 16 So we're dependent on China to keep our universities.

Speaker 12 But I think it's good to have, I actually think it's good to have outside countries. Look, I want to be able to get along with the world.

Speaker 15 And it's not that I want them.

Speaker 12 But I view it as a business. You don't want to cut half of the people, half of the students from all over the world that are coming into our country, destroy our entire university and college system.

Speaker 15 I don't want to do that. I wouldn't lose anything.

Speaker 12 And don't forget, MAGA was my idea. MAGA was nobody else's idea.
I know what MAGA wants better than anybody else.

Speaker 13 That is so trump.

Speaker 13 He said that to me, too. After my interview with him in 23, he said, MAGA's not going to like that interview.
And then I actually said back to him, MAGA will feel about it however you tell them to.

Speaker 13 You know, it's just like if you telegraph you had a good interview, they'll like it. If you say it sucked, they'll go a different way.
But he clearly does believe that.

Speaker 13 Like MAGA will do whatever he says.

Speaker 14 I think there are two areas where he is vulnerable to his own base. And it's because their love and attachment to him is based on these two things.

Speaker 14 It's the fighting of China and the American elites that support them, like our university system and then the immigration front. And he does not have a lot of wiggle room there.

Speaker 14 It's funny, Mark Halperin, who's in your network on the Megan Kelly network, he asked me once on one of his shows, what's the correct number of Chinese or foreign students we should have in American universities?

Speaker 14 And my answer was zero.

Speaker 13 Yes. Zero.
Zero. I'm with you.
Batia for president.

Speaker 14 Zero. Every one of those spots should go to a black kid or a kid from Appalachia.

Speaker 14 It is such an absolute chutzpah to be giving the greatest privilege in American education to our enemies and not going and recruiting that talent here at home.

Speaker 14 And it's the exact same thing with the H-1B visas. Donald Trump was not elected because he tweets mean things.
He was elected to put Americans first.

Speaker 14 And that is what it looks like. It says, you know what?

Speaker 14 If you're a university that, by the way, is spouting anti-American rhetoric day in and day out, teaching young people both on the right and the left to hate America and hate the values this nation was founded on, and you're only able to stay in business because of Chinese Communist Party apparatchiks flooding our system.

Speaker 14 Go out of business. This would be so great for America.
All of those billions of dollars that the taxpayer gives to higher ed, we'll give it to vocational training.

Speaker 14 Let's start building, you know, training centers in AI, in the South, and in the Midwest. And let's give Americans a fair shot at the American dream.
That is why Donald Trump was elected.

Speaker 14 And so, to see him now, honestly, I think this is actually about tariffs.

Speaker 14 I think that he realized in the fight with Xi Jinping that this was a huge bargaining chip for Xi that Xi would actually back down on the economic fight if Trump would promise him those 600,000 spots for these you know CCP future apparatches

Speaker 14 it's extremely important

Speaker 14 It's infuriating, but I think in Trump's mind, I don't think he's betraying America.

Speaker 14 I think in his mind, he made a calculation that his tariff program falls or rises with whether he can get a deal with China. This is extremely important for reshoring manufacturing.

Speaker 14 And if this is what Xi wants, he's willing to give it to him. But I do think that clips like that just make the base feel like this is not what I voted for.

Speaker 13 Definitely not. All right, the H-1B visas, which are typically given, I mean,

Speaker 13 the vast majority of them are given to people from India.

Speaker 13 And they come and they work in tech for the most part, which is why people like Elon Musk very much support them. Elon says he came on an H-1B visa initially and that it helped him.
But

Speaker 13 a couple of examples of how those visas are typically given: software engineers, IT specialists, scientists, researchers, accountants, architects, engineers, medical professionals, and so on

Speaker 13 have to be like specialized. That's generally how you get when you have like special skills.
That's what they say.

Speaker 13 Then you can get an H-1 visa, H-1B visa to come over to the United States and work here.

Speaker 13 And there is a real debate between, especially the techies and the Trumpies, on whether these are good. So Laura asked him about the H-1B visas.
Here's how that went.

Speaker 12 There's never going to be a country like what we have right now. And does that mean Republicans have to talk about it?

Speaker 16 And does that mean the H-1B visa thing will not be a big priority for your administration?

Speaker 16 Because if you want to raise wages for American workers, you can't flood the country with tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of foreign workers.

Speaker 12 Also, do have to bring in talent.

Speaker 15 We have plenty of talented people. No, you don't.
No, you don't. We don't have talented people in the world.
No,

Speaker 12 you don't have certain talents and you have to, people have to learn. You can't take people off an unemployment, like an unemployment line and say, I'm going to put you into a factory.

Speaker 12 We're going to make missiles.

Speaker 13 Does he have a point? Or how do you see it?

Speaker 14 Just so, so bad. This is exactly what Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy were saying at that big blowup over Christmas, where they were saying, I'm sorry, we just don't have the talent here.

Speaker 14 It's such a slap in the face to the American worker. Train them.
Train everyone. The H-1B visa holders who come in here, they are not specialized.
They have no talent.

Speaker 14 You know what their talent is, Megan? They're willing to work for $50,000 a year. Exactly.

Speaker 14 They have driven down the wages in STEM, which means that our brightest kids are not going into STEM because what are you going to do?

Speaker 14 Like graduate after four years with student loans and take a job where you're making 50K? You're not going to do that. So

Speaker 14 we're actually driving our brilliant Americans out of STEM because we're importing Indians to do those jobs. It is so atrocious and terrible, and it is such a betrayal of the American worker.

Speaker 14 And this is a fight we absolutely have to have right now because Trump has done an amazing job of attracting, I think the number at this point is about $15 trillion

Speaker 14 in manufacturing here. And everything around that, so much of that is going to be AI training.
and AI work. And we need to insist that every one of those jobs goes to an American.

Speaker 14 You know, again, like people ask me a lot, what is the correct number of immigrants into America right now? And my answer is kind of the same, Megan. It's somewhere close to zero.

Speaker 14 Like it might not be zero. There maybe is another Elon Musk out there who really wants to come here.
But right now, we're just bringing in, you know, bargain basement.

Speaker 14 programmers when those could be middle-class jobs for American workers, Americans who are struggling right now.

Speaker 14 Why are so many people on food stamps?

Speaker 14 Why is healthcare so expensive? I mean, these are the questions we have to be having and

Speaker 14 the affordability question is totally, totally inseparable from this question of immigration.

Speaker 14 The fact that we have so many immigrants in this country is a huge reason why Americans make so little and are struggling with basics like food.

Speaker 14 If you think about it, Megan, every illegal immigrant in America is either working, meaning they're driving down the wages in that industry, or they're living off the government, meaning the American taxpayer is subsidizing them.

Speaker 14 There's no in-between, right? They're not being funded by somebody in their home country to live here in America.

Speaker 14 Both of those options are utterly, utterly unacceptable, which is why in every single poll, the vast majority of Americans, 56%, okay, a solid majority supports deporting every single illegal immigrant.

Speaker 14 And it seems now like what the Trump administration is saying is, okay, we're going to counteract the deportation program with expanding the legal immigrants program.

Speaker 14 Christy Noam this morning said that there are.

Speaker 13 Oh, I have that. Hold on.
I have that. Let's play.
Christy Noam went in Fox and Friends this morning and said this, Sat too.

Speaker 18 What is the administration's position on these visas?

Speaker 19 No, we're going to keep using our visa programs.

Speaker 19 We're just going to make sure that they have integrity, that we're actually doing the vetting of the individuals who come into this country, that they want to be here for the right reasons, that they're not supporters of terrorists and organizations that hate America.

Speaker 19 And that's what I think is so remarkable is under the Trump administration, we've sped up our process and added integrity to the visa programs, to green cards, to all of that, but also more people are becoming naturalized under this administration than ever before.

Speaker 19 More people are becoming citizens because we're not just streamlining and building some processes back into our immigration policies.

Speaker 19 We're also making sure that these individuals that are coming into our country and get that privilege, that they actually are here for the right reasons.

Speaker 13 That was in defense of H-1B visas saying, you know,

Speaker 13 we're coming, but we're getting the best. We're not getting people who hate America anymore.
And then that's the second point about more becoming naturalized. I was like, oh, she thinks she's on CNN.

Speaker 13 That is definitely not what the Fox Fears want to hear.

Speaker 14 It's funny because, you know, Trump won because he cobbled together an unbelievably diverse coalition.

Speaker 14 He brought in record numbers of Jewish Americans and Black Americans and Hispanic Americans into the Republican Party and also these sort of tech bro oligarchs.

Speaker 14 And the thing that the tech bro oligarchs want is access to cheap labor because of course they are

Speaker 14 exactly they want these visas they want a limit Elon Musk said this is the hill I will die on you can go F yourself in the face if you're this is literally what he tweeted if you're gonna fight me on this.

Speaker 14 Now people like that who are very very very wealthy and want this like limitless stream of low-wage labor, their problem is very symbolic.

Speaker 14 They really don't like seeing people like Mahmoud Khalil, a person who got the greatest privilege on earth, an American green card, and used it to attack America and to support Hamas and support terrorism.

Speaker 14 You know, they don't like that. Of course, I obviously don't like that either, but that is not the number one problem we're facing with mass immigration.

Speaker 14 The number one problem we're facing is that people who are not our neighbors are being subsidized by our poor neighbors' taxpayer dollars to live here, to live in homes so that there's a housing crisis, to work in their industries and drive down the wages, and to basically emiserate the working class.

Speaker 14 They're being forced to pay for

Speaker 14 their competition, their replacements in the labor force. So in this industry,

Speaker 13 it's not like one here or there. It'd be one thing if they really were bringing specialized people, but it's like hundreds of these visas for like one tech company, all from India, all low wage.

Speaker 13 If they're so special, why aren't they getting higher wage, right?

Speaker 13 Like if they actually have special skills that we can't get here, you would imagine they would get the top of the pay scale, not the bottom.

Speaker 14 Yeah, it's like about 500,000 of them over, I don't remember the exact period of time, but already when you're talking about 500,000 people, it's not specialized, right? It's an entire wage sector.

Speaker 14 It's an entire sector of the economy. So you have illegals competing with working class people.
You now have the H-1Bs competing with what would have been middle-class jobs.

Speaker 14 Of course, $50,000 a year now is not a middle-class job anymore, right? So, you're just dragging everybody down with this.

Speaker 14 So, back in the 70s, which was the high watermark for working-class wages, where they could afford the American dream on a single income, buy a home, et cetera, the kind of ideal that we look back to, the percentage of Americans living on American soil, people living on American soil who were not born here was 4%.

Speaker 14 It was a historic low. Today, Megan, it's 15 or 16%.
It's never been this high in American history. That is why young people can't afford to buy homes.
That is why people can't afford health care.

Speaker 14 That is why 42 million people are on food stamps, because they cannot command the wages that would give them a middle-class standard of living because they are competing with 16%

Speaker 14 of the people here who were not born in the United States.

Speaker 14 That's the number one problem for the working class, and that should be the number one issue for Republicans going forward.

Speaker 13 Wow.

Speaker 13 Here is the Mike Cernovich tweet. Trump broke everyone's heart with this line about the American workforce and H-1Bs suggesting we don't have workers who can do it.

Speaker 13 Then there's Anthony Sabatini. He's a vocal pro-Trump Lake County commissioner in Florida, who wrote, This is insane.
We're going to lose the midterms so badly.

Speaker 13 We've never seen an administration crash and burn in its first year so badly for no reason other than to appease donors and special interests. I think that overstates it by far.

Speaker 13 He's not crashing and burning so badly. But this was a misstep this morning that those clips from Laura, they're not going to help.

Speaker 13 But, you know, look, Trump, as you point out, has his reasons and he's playing like a master game when it comes to like his policy balancing, as you point out, the foreign policy with the domestic

Speaker 13 and is asking us to trust him. That's eroding even among his base with comments like that.
Stand by. More to come after this break.
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Speaker 13 All right, let's go. Isn't it great to be together? It's so great to see you.

Speaker 13 You're not alone. It's only the liberal media and the haters who want you to think that.
We're in the majority right now. Don't miss your last chance to be part of the Megan Kelly Live Tour.

Speaker 13 Next stops: Bakersfield, Anaheim, and the Grand Finale in Glendale, Arizona, featuring special guest, Erica Kirk. So go get your tickets right now before they sell out.

Speaker 13 MeganKelly.com, presented by YReFi and SiriusXM.

Speaker 13 I wanted to tell you, while I have your attention, that the Megan Kelly wrap-up show launched this week. It airs right after our show airs.
So it begins at 2 p.m.

Speaker 13 Eastern on the Megan Kelly channel, 111 on SiriusXM, and it is hosted by none other than Emily Jashinsky. Who doesn't want to talk to Emily? She's hilarious.
She's brilliant. She's relevant.

Speaker 13 She's young. She's really interesting.
And you can talk to her directly, give your thoughts on today's episode or anything else on your mind by calling in the numbers 83344 Megan.

Speaker 13 Just remember that it's spelled M-E-G-Y-N because my mom couldn't spell. 83344MEGYN, which is 833-446-3496.
So you can call at any time if you want to get on the line.

Speaker 13 You can just get on and put it on hold so that you're one of the first and call in and let Emily know what you think of her, the news, the show. She's happy to talk with you.

Speaker 13 So that's coming up next live on SiriusXM Channel 111. Back with me now, Batya Unger Sargon.
She's host of Batya on News Nation. All right, so there is a hero in the news.

Speaker 13 She's been amazing, this gal, and she is not effing around. Her name is Tish Hyman, and she is an out-lesbian.

Speaker 13 She is a black woman.

Speaker 13 She lives in California, and she is the one who got kicked out of Gold's gym, her gym, last week, because she objected to a very problematic male pretending to be a woman in her locker room.

Speaker 13 Golds handled it all the wrong way.

Speaker 13 Unfortunately for all of us, they handled it because California state law requires any establishment to allow someone to use the locker room or bathroom that aligns with their gender identity.

Speaker 13 So Golds was not above board in the way they dealt with this, but unfortunately for Golds and every other business in California, they really don't have a lot of choice.

Speaker 13 They have to let these losers hang out in female spaces. Great job, Californians! Great job.
Anyway, Tish is just amazing, and she is now a woman on a mission. She's a total ball buster.

Speaker 13 I'm in love with this gal. She's just so fierce.
So she decides to show up to the first public campaign interview given by the disgusting, horrific, awful Scott Weiner. Don't vote for him.

Speaker 13 I'm begging you. I'm begging you.
If you are in California and in Nancy Pelosi's district, where he's running for her soon-to-be-vacant seat, please vote for anyone other than Scott Weiner.

Speaker 13 He is the worst politician in America. He is my number one most loathed politician.
There's no one who's done more to trans children than this man. No one.
I'm telling you, he's very strange.

Speaker 13 He's very creepy. There's something about this guy that really creeps me out.
And she, Tish, showed up at his event and decided to ask some questions. We've butted a bunch of the exchanges together.

Speaker 13 Let's watch them. Here they are.

Speaker 20 As a lesbian woman who was attacked in a woman's locker room at Gold's gym this week by a self-identifying trans woman with a documented history of domestic violence, I'm deeply deeply concerned about women's safety in female-only spaces.

Speaker 20 What would you say to women who are seeking assurance that their safety will be protected from men who, by California law, can self-ide as women in women-only spaces, sir? Please tell me.

Speaker 20 Yeah, so we want, I mean, everyone to be safe.

Speaker 20 And we also know that we have trans people, both men and women,

Speaker 20 who are men and women.

Speaker 20 And so,

Speaker 20 you know, we,

Speaker 20 so if you're trans women are women. And I'm telling you, as a woman, first and foremost, that this is dangerous.
And we need your help because you're in the office.

Speaker 20 You're going to go in the policy spot. I want to support you.
I have millions of people behind me watching this right now. And we want to know: are you going to protect women? Not trans women, women.

Speaker 20 Women, trans women are different things. Women, women.
Listen, we need to protect women's safety. I was.

Speaker 20 I was assaulted. No, they are not.
They are men. I was assaulted by women.

Speaker 20 He broke his life

Speaker 20 so bad she needed a reconstructive surgery. I'm a lesbian.
I'm not transphobic, and I'm black. So if there's another black woman in here who wants to tell me how they feel, please join in.

Speaker 20 But all of you are not. And I don't know who you are or what you are, but I'm a lesbian.
And I'm telling you right now, men are harassing women in the locker room.

Speaker 13 Let's let him answer the question.

Speaker 20 I'm just telling you, since y'all want to woo, woo, woo. No, just let, let's.

Speaker 20 Now I'm done. And by the way, I respect what you have to.
I just want to let you know that kind of thing let's get let's give this in without

Speaker 20 your point of view I'm so sorry that you were multiple times and I appreciate you talking about it

Speaker 20 I think we need to protect the safety of all women and and and

Speaker 20 that obviously that's incredibly important and I also know that trans women are also brutalized in this country.

Speaker 20 So women and cistern women are brutalized in this country and we have to protect the safety of all women. We have to protect women.

Speaker 20 We cannot be raped in the bathrooms by men that want to save their women. They're not women.

Speaker 20 They're not women. I'm leaving.
It's okay, but I'm not going to take it.

Speaker 20 I am leaving. Because you know what? You guys are not protecting women.
You're doing a lot. The bills that you're passing for the law, I read a lot of them.
They're great.

Speaker 20 But this thing with the jets, it's not right. Thank you very much.
Miraba.

Speaker 13 It's like having a view into what's happening on Saturn. I don't understand this community.
It's San Francisco, I get it.

Speaker 13 But how are these LGBs not realizing that the TQs are bizarre, are not part of the same universe, are undermining their youth.

Speaker 13 They're trying to convert little gay boys into girls because they otherize homosexuality as something that's so disgusting they have to erase it by turning a gay boy into a female. They're the enemy.

Speaker 13 And Scott Weiner is the enemy. He's never seen a child child who he wouldn't trans if the kid expresses a modicum of gender confusion.

Speaker 13 That's clear to me from reading this guy's bills and seeing the way he's behaved in California. He's disgusting.
And she goes out there to confront him.

Speaker 13 And at every turn, Batia, you know, we want everyone to be safe. Everyone, not women, that's not the issue.
We want everyone to be safe. We have trans men and women.
who are men and women.

Speaker 13 And then he doubles down. Trans women are women, he says to her.
No, they're not. They're men pretending to be us, which he knows but won't admit.
Then he goes on.

Speaker 13 She says, are you going to protect women? He said, and then the crowd starts booing. She says, they're different.
The crowd starts booing, booing.

Speaker 13 And once again, women are not the same as trans women, she says. And he rejects that,

Speaker 13 saying we have to protect the safety of everyone. And then highlights the fact that trans women are brutalized in this country.
That's the issue.

Speaker 13 It's what's happening to the trans women, not the real women who actually are being attacked, harassed, and in some cases sexually assaulted by these perverted men pretending to be us in order, in many cases, to gain access to us in vulnerable spaces.

Speaker 14 This clip was so therapeutic to watch because it played out exactly as you would have wanted it to, right? At every step, she just spoke the truth.

Speaker 14 And everybody around her her trying to gaslight her the way they've tried to gaslight the nation was totally silenced by just the starkness of the truth that she was speaking.

Speaker 14 She took on that whole room and silenced them for booing her. But Megan, I also found it very sad.
And I'll tell you why.

Speaker 14 A large part of why she was able to do that is because she was a black lesbian who likes his housing proposals.

Speaker 14 So what she was basically saying is, I am from an actually marginalized community that you white boomer progressives recognize that I am oppressed and marginalized.

Speaker 14 So when I tell you that these trans men are attacking me in the bathroom, you have to listen. And they were forced into submission because of her status as being this like double minority.

Speaker 14 And on the one hand, she's obviously right.

Speaker 14 But on the other hand, Megan, there's something wrong in our nation that if a white man had stood up and said the same thing, he would have been booed out of the room, right?

Speaker 14 Like nobody would have been able to accept the truth of what he was saying. And I think that there's something about that that's really un-American.

Speaker 14 It's sort of like anathema to who we are to where the left will only accept these truths. Not that anybody there really accepted it, but they felt embarrassed to contradict what she was saying.

Speaker 14 Cause as you could tell in that room, the whole room was white except for her and a black woman shut up they did shut up and when she left she said to the black woman don't let them use our race

Speaker 14 to transition people to transition children was she said something along those lines um i do think that the nation was once really sort of enthralled to this view that you can't speak out against the transitioning of children, trans people in women's bathrooms and women's sports.

Speaker 14 But now, Megan, I think it's very obvious that this is an 80-20 issue and that the nation is where this woman, Tish, is at and not where this wiener is.

Speaker 14 And I have to say, Megan, a lot of that is because of you, because you really have been such a strong, but also intelligent voice on this and doing exactly the thing I'm describing, which is saying like,

Speaker 14 It is radicalizing to tell people not to trust what they see with their own eyes. You cannot tell a nation they have to pretend.

Speaker 14 You cannot tell a nation that they have to force their daughters into this.

Speaker 14 And I have to say, I had a very similar reaction when the Olympics came out and finally said, no, we're not going to have trans people in women's sports anymore.

Speaker 14 My first reaction was relief, and my second was horror and shame that we forced girls, young girls, to fight that fight for us as a civilization, to be at the forefront of that fight until finally they won.

Speaker 14 That we forced people like Riley Gaines, you know, girls, children in girls' locker rooms to be the face of that fight, not you, Megan, because you always had their back, but that a whole, you know, half the country was sort of like, no, actually, like the trans women are the women, right?

Speaker 14 And I'm glad that it's won. It seems to me kind of like the gay marriage fight.
It's won. It's over.
You know, like we don't, we won, right? Like the right side of those two issues won.

Speaker 14 Like the country is very pro-gay and like really not into this, you know, trans extremism.

Speaker 14 But I do feel that this is going to be a kind of enduring stain that for so long, young girls had to fight this fight by themselves.

Speaker 13 I totally agree with every word. It's been so upsetting.
The IOC definitely floating a trial balloon, at least this week, suggesting it's going to restore sanity.

Speaker 13 It's not official yet, but it looks good that they're going to stop this as opposed to leaving it up to individual sports like boxing, which did such a good job of protecting actual women at the last Olympics.

Speaker 13 But you're right. Think of all the carnage left in the wake.
And I think it's very interesting that Tish, as she was standing up there, was wearing an XXXY sweatshirt.

Speaker 13 That's Jennifer Say's brand, S-E-Y.

Speaker 13 Jennifer Say, former chief, one of the top chief executives at Levi's, who got pushed out because she stood up against the COVID insanity and objected in this same district, I think she was in San Francisco, to the lockdowns that affected children.

Speaker 13 They're saying that this is very damaging for children, and children are not the problem. We should not be locking schools down and keeping kids out of school.
And for that, she lost her whole career.

Speaker 13 She was a lifelong, very successful, very storied gymnast who participated in the Olympics and all sorts of World Cup games or world games.

Speaker 13 And she's made this her mission to try to protect young girls too. And I love seeing her in Tish's, in Tish in Jennifer's sweatshirt, standing up there saying, What's real?

Speaker 13 What's real is there is only XX and XY. There is no such thing as making an XY and XX.
And everyone knows it. Scott Weiner, I have to look into it because I just heard that he was running.

Speaker 13 He's been a California state representative for a long time.

Speaker 13 There's no way a Republican can win in that district, but there's got to be a more reasonable Democrat. There's got to be an LGB who's going to look out for the LGBs and reject the TQ insanity.

Speaker 13 And I might, for the first time in my life, actually make a big donation to such a person, if they exist, who's going to fight Scott Wiener.

Speaker 13 I'll donate to a Democrat because that seat's going to a Democrat. Anybody who will defeat Scott Wiener.
I'm telling you, this is the number one most dangerous lawmaker when it comes to this issue.

Speaker 13 The number one. We've been following him for years.
We can do no worse than Scott Wiener. He must be defeated at the ballot box.
He must be.

Speaker 13 Here's Carrie and Britt. Carrie and Britt, Carrie Prajan and Britt Mayer, who helped open my eyes on the trans issue, they were much more radicalized on it than I was when I first launched this show.

Speaker 13 And they helped me, among many other women who helped me, who helped open my eyes so profoundly. There's a long list of women to whom I'm very grateful.
And

Speaker 13 they were two of the first. And they have been, they live in California.
They've been following this guy around.

Speaker 13 Normally, I'm not a big fan of like, I've got you on my videotape and your private time and I'm going to harass you. But I'm sorry, this guy is downright dangerous to our children.

Speaker 13 He's downright dangerous given these policies. And this is,

Speaker 13 we pulled it up just for old time's sake. This was back in 2023 in SOP 14B.

Speaker 14 You have had such an impact on the state. Like you were both in the most recent with 107

Speaker 14 making.

Speaker 14 And we're doing an investigation right now on the origin with the Kinsey Institute. Like, have you broken internal?

Speaker 21 The Kinsey Institute in Indiana.

Speaker 21 You're not familiar with it? Like, the whole trans movement and all that based on pedophilia and child abuse.

Speaker 20 Are you not familiar with it?

Speaker 13 You need to understand what you're supporting. The reason why so many of your bills that you propose are based out of the theory that were popularized by offered food

Speaker 13 is do you have a statement?

Speaker 13 Or do you just ignore constituents?

Speaker 13 Okay, I know that was hard to hear.

Speaker 13 I had the advantage of being able to turn up the volume in my ear, but I urge you to go back and listen to it and turn up the volume because it's these two undercover next to him in a club trying to get up in his face about his agenda.

Speaker 13 They opened it by making him think that they were fans.

Speaker 13 He started listening and then they dropped, you know, the truth bombs on him about his latest proposed legislation about transing children and what it would do.

Speaker 13 And then asked him about the Kinsey Institute and started to go back into the history of those who started pushing the whole trans movement on us to begin with, which includes some very sick, sick people.

Speaker 13 He was a coward, like all the people pushing this stuff are. He ran away, and now he's running so far away that he's running for office at a higher level, Batia.

Speaker 13 And I'm sorry, like, I don't want anything bad to happen to Scott Weiner, to be clear, but I want this guy to get defeated at the ballot box. I, this cannot be a San Francisco.

Speaker 13 San Franciscans, you're famous for gay and lesbian rights.

Speaker 13 He wants to take your gay little boys and make them girls because he and others like him seem to think there's something fundamentally wrong with homosexuality.

Speaker 13 That cannot be your representative. It cannot.
It has to stop. You have to defeat him.

Speaker 13 And by the way, to fill Nancy Pelosi's shoes, like she was, say what you will about Pelosi, she's definitely pro LGB rights. And would like, this is just insane.

Speaker 13 So I applaud Tish for showing up in the lion's den and having her say. It's the whole thing is deeply disturbing, Bhatya, deeply.
All right, let me move on, though.

Speaker 13 You mentioned in the first hour at the top of the show, people who are still so clueless about the news that they think Trump actually said there are very fine people on both sides about white supremacists at the Charlottesville, whatever it was, Unite the White, Unite, I don't remember what it's called, Unite the Right, Unite the White, right, whatever it was, rally.

Speaker 13 It's a lie. He didn't didn't say that.
He was talking about people who don't like to see the statues torn down.

Speaker 13 And it's been dubbed a lie even by Snopes, the left-wing so-called fact-checker, but still they push it. Obama pushed it.

Speaker 13 At the Democratic National Convention, he pushed it. Like, it's a lie that's been peddled by many.

Speaker 13 And the left loves this lie, so they choose to believe it, or they are just too ignorant of the truth to believe it, to not believe it, whatever.

Speaker 13 Enter Abby Phillips, who comments not on this, but on this information vacuum she perceives as existing only on the right.

Speaker 13 It's the right that has siloed news, whereas the left and everybody else actually understands what's going on in the world.

Speaker 13 Now, this is somebody who hosts a show on CNN that has absolutely no ratings. You and I and our moms just got more ratings watching the show and doing the show than she has on her CNN show.

Speaker 13 But it gets clipped and circulated on X. I won't make you say anything negative about it because I know you do her the favor of going on there, but she doesn't deserve you.

Speaker 13 So she decides to go over to Joy Reed's new show. I guess she's got a show now on some sort of podcast.
Good luck with that. And has this description of her own job in that CNN chair?

Speaker 13 Take a listen to SOT 17.

Speaker 22 Conservatives are living in a completely different information world than liberals. And

Speaker 22 breaking that down needs to be done. Because when you don't ever even hear the facts,

Speaker 22 it's hard to even know that you're wrong.

Speaker 13 Oh, you're so good to us. A lot.

Speaker 22 I mean,

Speaker 22 half my job sometimes is knowing what the latest conspiracy is. Yeah.

Speaker 13 So that if it comes up, I'm ready to address it.

Speaker 22 Because it happens a lot where people don't even know that what they're saying or what they've seen and believe is not true. And so

Speaker 22 that happens a lot. And I don't come away from that saying,

Speaker 22 what's the point of this? People are just saying false things.

Speaker 22 I think that one time that that person person brings up something that is debunked and i debunk it at the table might be the very first time that someone out there has heard an alternative point of view okay i just just play sat 20 okay just play sat 20 here we go

Speaker 22 How do we jump to the conclusion that Joe Biden didn't know who he pardoned?

Speaker 13 Because when John Tapper wrote a book about how out of it that he was.

Speaker 23 Everybody here acknowledges that there have been thousands upon thousands of people, ordinary people, who have taken to social media to celebrate this, yes or no.

Speaker 22 I don't know about that. The idea that this was a weaponized,

Speaker 22 these were all these different prosecutions and all these different jurisdictions were not all directed from one place. There's absolutely no evidence of that.

Speaker 22 I've never seen it, and I've never heard anybody actually say that.

Speaker 14 The Obama and Biden administrations didn't politicize the DOJ and the U.S.

Speaker 13 I'm sorry.

Speaker 22 I'm going to see the proof of Joe Biden enriching himself.

Speaker 13 Okay, so those are just a number of examples she has totally wrong. She's seen no proof that Joe Biden directed any of the weaponization against Trump.

Speaker 13 Why don't you go to April 2022 and the New York Times, in which they published this very public demand that Merrick Garland indict Trump, that he wanted him prosecuted?

Speaker 13 How did that wind up in the New York Times?

Speaker 13 Oh, gee, I'm left to wonder, could it possibly have been that Joe Biden wanted it in the New York fucking Times because his private behind-the-scenes pressure to Merrick Garland was not doing the trick?

Speaker 13 Yes, that's exactly what happened. She, I guess, missed that, even though her colleague Anderson Cooper reported on it at length.

Speaker 13 She also reported that the videos of Joe Biden falling down were deep fakes. She fell for that, saying they don't show the full context.

Speaker 13 Right, because if anything, they were too kind to Joe Biden and didn't show him actually dribbling into his pudding. But you ran cover for him, Abby Phillip.

Speaker 13 And then she has the nerve to go say this stuff

Speaker 13 about debunking conspiracy theories. That's her job.
To Joy Reed. Joy Reed listened to Joy Reed in SOT 18 after Donald Trump was shot in the head.

Speaker 13 We still don't know for sure whether Donald Trump was hit by a bullet. We knew almost nothing.
Why? Well, that second part is true.

Speaker 13 That second part is true. She knows nothing.
She knows absolutely nothing. I'm sorry, but I can't take this bullshit.
Abby Phillip actually spins herself as the one who sets...

Speaker 13 sets situations straight, sets lies straight, puts the truth to the lie. That in itself is a lie.
Her record is long. It speaks for itself.

Speaker 13 I guess I am going to put you in the awkward position of having to comment on it.

Speaker 14 Well, I am very grateful to her for having me on.

Speaker 14 I think all the people who are kind of on the MAGA side who go on the show feel exactly what Abby was saying she feels, which is a great responsibility to inform the CNN audience of all of the things they think are true that are not true.

Speaker 14 I can't think of a single thing I could point to right now where I could say, like, oh, here is like, you know, a big debunked lie that the right has subscribed to whole hog.

Speaker 14 There's a lot of debate happening as you know megan on the right about all of the big issues there's no real like consensus about anything in this moment which i think is great like there's a big healthy debate happening around all the issues um when she's saying she needs to debunk what she means is she's not talking about facts she's talking about opinions that she thinks you know are not legitimate and i can tell you as somebody who does that show um the interruptions are are wildly, wildly disproportionate if you're on the right than if you're on the left.

Speaker 14 It's challenging. The challenge is how to make you each time you go, you're like, okay, I got to make my point even faster and faster so I can get something out before I get interrupted.

Speaker 14 But, you know, again, look, at least they have conservatives on the show, right?

Speaker 14 Even though the, you know, Abby's obviously like on one side of the issue, like they are exposing the audience to, you know, Scott Jennings, I think, is one of the most brilliant conservative voices out there.

Speaker 14 And he really makes that show.

Speaker 14 So he's out there. There are people listening.

Speaker 14 I'm 100% certain that there are CNN viewers who voted for Trump because of Scott Jennings. So overall, I think, you know, the clips do go viral on both sides.
Oh, here's another interesting thing.

Speaker 14 I will often notice that the same clip that I'm sharing from that show, like, oh, here, I made this point really well, exactly the way that I wanted to, is the same clip that all the leftist people who clip it are sharing to show, like, look how stupid this person is.

Speaker 14 That I think is really interesting because that people say we're in different media bubbles, but it's actually not true.

Speaker 14 What we are is looking at the same clip and to the left, this is like the worst thing they've ever heard.

Speaker 14 And to the right, it's like, finally, somebody represented exactly how we feel about this in a way that jives with how I feel about it.

Speaker 14 And I think that that is actually very healthy because we are in that moment looking at least at the same piece of information.

Speaker 13 I appreciate that, but Abby Phillip is a liar. What she did in that clip with Jerry Reed is lie from start to finish to

Speaker 13 paint herself as something better than what she is. She's a self-aggrandizer, but she is just as biased and full of bullshit as the rest of them over at CNN and MSNBC.

Speaker 13 And that's why her show is failing. Getting a couple of viral clips is not that helpful to CNN.
They need actual ratings. She's not the answer.

Speaker 13 She can't get them because she's not only utterly biased, she's entirely boring. She's an utter bore.
She cannot anchor a show.

Speaker 13 That's why she has to have 10 people on a panel because they quickly realized she was too boring to actually drive the news.

Speaker 13 I'm sorry, Abby, if no one's told you that, but that's why they gave 10 people on your panel, because they realized as soon as you took the seat, you were too boring to solo. That's the truth.

Speaker 13 I'm going to tell it to you. I was in cable news for a really long time.
I know of what I speak. Sorry, Batya, but that's my take.
But you were nice. So

Speaker 13 she can remember that the next time she wants to book you.

Speaker 13 Even though you'd be much better never going on that show again. Okay, I have to get to this.
Speaking of lunatic Democrats, there's a debate happening right now on the right.

Speaker 13 I'm going to bring, gonna get to the Democrats in a second, about whether we should eliminate the filibuster in the Senate. Trump really wants the Republicans to do it.

Speaker 13 John Thune, Senate majority leader, is saying we do not have the votes for that. And it would be a massive watershed moment in American politics.
We've had the filibuster since the 1800s.

Speaker 13 It didn't come about really in earnest until the early 1900s, but we've had it for over 100 years as a very important tool for minority rights in the Senate, which is the body where you really are supposed to deliberate.

Speaker 13 Things are supposed to go slower. They're not supposed to be, you know, snapjack right in response to the constituents' desires.

Speaker 13 That's the House where you have to face the constituents for re-election every two years. That's how the founders designed it.

Speaker 13 So taking away minority rights and making it easier to pass legislation would not be totally consistent with how the founders envisioned it. Trump's argument is nothing gets passed now.

Speaker 13 We've gotten so obstinate and obstructionist that nothing can get passed, even with a 53-person majority in the Senate. So drastic change is warranted.

Speaker 13 And with all due respect, this wasn't in the founding setup of the union. It's not in the Constitution.
And it can be done away with just as easily as it was brought into existence.

Speaker 13 And the Republicans should do it, or the Dems will do it when they get in control. And we won't have passed any of our legislation, then they'll pass all of theirs.

Speaker 13 So I understand it's actually a very interesting argument. And we'll see.
But right now, they say there's not the votes. Enter James Carville, who said all the quiet parts out loud.

Speaker 13 And I don't think this is particularly helpful to Democrats, but it may also give the Republicans a bit of pause before they do this. You tell me how you see it.
Here's SAT 32.

Speaker 6 I'm going to tell you what's going to happen.

Speaker 18 A Democrat is going to be elected in 2028. You know that.
I know that.

Speaker 18 He's going to be a Democratic House, gonna be a Democratic Senator. The Democratic president is going to announce a special transition advisory committee on the

Speaker 18 reform of the Supreme Court. And they're going to recommend that the number of Supreme Court justices go from 9 to 13.
That's going to happen, people. That's going to happen to you.

Speaker 18 They're going to win. They're going to do some blue-ribbon panel of distinguished jurists.

Speaker 18 And they are going to recommend 13. And a Democratic Senate.

Speaker 18 and House is going to pass it and the Democratic president is going to decide it because they have to do an intervention so we can have a Supreme Court that the American people trust again.

Speaker 18 So just keep that in the back of your mind. And

Speaker 18 I would bet a lot of money that that's what's going to happen.

Speaker 13 A lot.

Speaker 13 Thoughts?

Speaker 14 Yeah, I mean, don't get rid of the filibuster.

Speaker 14 I had Senator Tim Shee on my show and I asked him if he supports it. He said he didn't.
I mean, it's like you said, Megan, it's an extremely important check on, you know, the power. And also

Speaker 14 it gives more gravitas to the Senate, as you pointed out, and it protects minority rights. And what I hate to see is the right turning into the left.

Speaker 14 So the left under Obama just got drunk on power. They had political power and they had the cultural power.
And they convinced themselves that they were never going to have to compete again.

Speaker 14 And as a result, they indulged their worst tendencies and called everybody on the other side a Nazi and became extremely far left and radical because they thought that all of the fights for power were over.

Speaker 14 And obviously, Trump first stole the political power from them. And now it's pretty clear he's stolen the cultural power from them.

Speaker 14 You know, the right is now the cool side and the left is like lame and cringe and old and whatever.

Speaker 13 First time ever.

Speaker 14 Yeah, first time ever.

Speaker 14 And I just hate to see the right making the same mistakes, allowing the most radical fringe online element to act as a stand-in for what young people want, or becoming drunk on the idea of their success and thinking the Democrats will never be competitive again.

Speaker 14 They will be. That's how this country works.
That's how the founders intended it to work.

Speaker 14 And so you do have to, you know, I saw Vice President Vance saying we should never not do something because the Democrats are going to do it. They're going to do it anyway.

Speaker 14 You do have to keep your side of the aisle clean. I do believe that the reason President Trump won was because he had the moral high ground.

Speaker 14 He grabbed that moderate, good-hearted center where most Americans live. That is the sweet spot.

Speaker 14 You know, I feel a little bit like the Lorax right now, you know, like I come to you as a swing voter who loves Donald Trump and loves MAGA, you know, like this is this is where elections are won in that sweet spot in the middle.

Speaker 14 And so I think it's really important not to look at the mistakes the left made and be like, the mistake wasn't just the trans issue. It's that they allowed the fringe to define the entire party.

Speaker 14 And I think we have to really keep that in mind. If you want to stay competitive and you want power.

Speaker 13 I think it was Rich Lowry who said the other night,

Speaker 13 the left. is the one that is constantly swinging for large pieces of federal legislation to take over control of our lives.
The right, that's not the right's thing.

Speaker 13 The right generally wants states to be in control of lawmaking, and they want it to be as little and as non-intrusive as possible.

Speaker 13 So if we give this power to the Senate by eliminating minority rights, we are the ones who are going to suffer way, way more than the Democrats.

Speaker 13 And was also making the point, Ben Shapiro spoke to this too, and Rich too, but like that President Trump, he hasn't even submitted like a bunch of huge bills that he can't get votes on.

Speaker 13 There's been a couple, like keeping men out of women's sports, that's one. But there haven't been like a ton that haven't been able to get through because of the Democrats' obstructionism.

Speaker 13 There's been some, but like, it's not like my whole agenda has been stymied because of the damn filibuster. But the Democrats would go in there and good God.
I mean, like James Carville's saying,

Speaker 13 before we know it, they're going to be pushing for court changes. They're going to be pushing for state number of states changes.

Speaker 13 And this is assuming they have control of all three branches, which they will again someday. Don't kid yourself.
This is the glory days right now for MAGA, but it's not going to last.

Speaker 13 It just never does, never does. And honestly, it could last no longer than 2027, the way things are going, if we get an election in 2028 that looks anything like last two Tuesdays ago.

Speaker 13 So in any event, I'm against it. I think right now I feel against it very much so.
And I haven't heard anything that is so tempting to me that I would change that position.

Speaker 13 So anyway, you heard it right from Carville. That's what they'll do.
when they get power. And, you know, I understand the argument is they'll do that whether we do it or not.

Speaker 13 But why would we make it easier for them? Why would we take away at least the PR battle that's on our side where we run around telling the voters these guys are fucking radical?

Speaker 13 Look what they just did: all these things without the filibuster, without protecting minority rights, the country's against it.

Speaker 13 You can make that argument if you stay honorable, but if you get down into the gutter before them, all bets are off. All right, Bacha, it's wonderful seeing you.
When can they see the Bacha show?

Speaker 14 It airs on Saturdays at 4 p.m. and 11 p.m.
on News Nation, and then we put clips on YouTube, and the whole show goes on YouTube YouTube Sunday night or Monday morning.

Speaker 13 Awesome. I love it.

Speaker 13 I expect a five-night per week expansion soon. Great to see you.

Speaker 14 Thank you, Megan. God bless you.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 13 You too, my friend. All right, coming up, a fun segment with someone who's had an incredible career and is a dear friend of yours, truly, as well.
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Speaker 13 Next, we're joined by an extremely talented photographer and personal friend of yours, truly, Barry Morgenstein. Barry is a famed portrait photographer.

Speaker 13 His portfolio of work showcases some of the world's biggest stars from Michael Jackson to Whitney Houston, Donald Trump, and more. He's out with a new book.

Speaker 13 It's called Rock and Soul Portraits by Barry Morgenstein.

Speaker 13 In it, he shares his not-so-traditional training in photography and how he was front row capturing major moments of music history and his most incredible work. Barry, welcome to the show.

Speaker 17 Hey, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 13 Really an honor. My pleasure.

Speaker 13 All right, now I want everybody to know that in addition to Barry's amazing portraits of all these super famous people, he's done my headshots since I was a young cub reporter at Fox News.

Speaker 13 And if you're ever going through New York and you need headshots, look up Barry Morgenstein because nobody does it better. Ladies, I'm telling you, I don't know how he does it.
It's not retouching.

Speaker 13 He uses this magic disc underneath you, his magic gold disc, and you go, you lose 15 years off of your face. It's wonderful.
You're very talented, Barry. It's wonderful.
Thank you knowing you.

Speaker 13 That means a lot to me. I appreciate it.
Sure. Yeah.
All right.

Speaker 13 You come out with this book, and it's so, first of all, I want to just say it's absolutely beautiful and it's cool looking. It's like, I'm holding it up now for the audience to see.
Rock and sol.

Speaker 13 It's got some of the greats on the front. It's got pictures of the best and biggest names in music throughout.
Large, beautiful, glossy photographs.

Speaker 13 Listen, if he can make me look good, you can imagine what he can do for like amazing people like Debbie Harry.

Speaker 13 So there isn't a name that's not in here in the music industry. So I guess I need to start with, like, which is, which, which are the ones that are most memorable to you?

Speaker 13 Because it's like Bono, Dylan.

Speaker 13 you know, the Rolling Stones, they're all in here.

Speaker 17 Yeah,

Speaker 17 it's hard to pick, but I would say McCartney is one. Growing up, a big Beatles fan, that's how I got into music in the first place.

Speaker 17 So McCartney and seeing him backstage at Madison Square Garden was pretty exciting.

Speaker 17 Yeah, I was kind of like, he came walking in the room and after idolizing him for many years, all I could do is look him in the face and just kind of say, holy blank.

Speaker 17 So that's all I could muster up. I was like, kind of so pretty starstruck.
So it was pretty cool.

Speaker 13 Well, it's like our friend James Rosen of Fox News, who told me when we were young at Fox together that he

Speaker 13 weeped.

Speaker 13 He wept at a Beatles concert, like uncontrollably. And I told him, James, never repeat that story publicly or you'll never get laid again.

Speaker 17 I think he told me the same story.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 13 So who else? Like, talk to us about some of your most memorable encounters with these guys.

Speaker 17 Yeah, I've had some great, some funny stories. Elton John stands out.

Speaker 17 I was Elton's official photographer for two Madison Square Garden concerts in New York City, as we all know, Madison Square Garden. I was his official photographer.

Speaker 17 No other photographers in the photo pit. It was just me.
I was hired by his management company.

Speaker 17 I'd grown up going to Madison Square Garden, seeing concerts there. So it was kind of surreal.
Funny story in the book. If you have time, I can tell you that is

Speaker 17 basically I'm standing all the way at the other end of the stage, the left part of the stage. Elton comes to the edge of

Speaker 17 his stage. A fan comes leaning in to hand him a big bouquet of balloons.
He can't quite reach them. So he looks down at me and kind of gives me the nod like, buddy, give me a hand here.

Speaker 17 I can't reach these. And another, another stupid move on my part, star shrug.
I just stand there dumbfounded, like, I'm in Medicine Square Garden. Elton John's talking to me.
And I'm standing there.

Speaker 17 And he's kind of giving me the exaggerated head nudge, like, get over here, buddy. And I snap out of it, run over, hand the balloons to Elton John.

Speaker 17 So, and I wish somebody had a photo of that to this day, but it was a pretty cool story.

Speaker 13 Yeah. Now, how did you wind up in Tina Turner's limousine?

Speaker 17 I was hired by Capital Records, I think, at the time. And I was just following her around.
She was doing radio interviews and I was covering it, taking pictures of her with the executives.

Speaker 17 And another funny story: these are my three favorite me acting like an idiot Star Truck story. So I'm across from her in the limousine.
She's sitting next to her manager.

Speaker 17 Her manager had to get off somewhere at a stop. He gets out of the car.

Speaker 17 Tina Turner looks at me, pats her seat next to her, and says, Come sit next to me, baby. Come sit next to me.
And again, what do I do? I freeze.

Speaker 13 I'm like,

Speaker 17 I know, this is the beginning of my career. career, you know.

Speaker 17 So, you know, so so, you know, I grow, I, I, I watch Tina Turner on Give Me Shelter, the film with Mick Jagger, you know, it's just Tina Turner, the famous lags right in front of me. Yeah,

Speaker 17 so, so I kind of, again, I said, what do I do? I snap out of it. Okay.
And I sit next to her.

Speaker 13 So that's funny. Luckily,

Speaker 17 I got a little cooler as time went along.

Speaker 13 There's a great story in the book about going to shoot

Speaker 13 Mick Jagger, I think it was. You were going to shoot Mick Jagger.

Speaker 13 And I don't know, or maybe it was, no, it was was Tommy Lee. It was Tommy Lee.
And let's just say he was classic Tommy Lee. Can you give us a window into that encounter?

Speaker 17 Yeah, so I had to shoot Tommy Lee and Vince Neal, the singer of Molly Crews, nine o'clock in the morning up in Electro Records studios. Just had to snap some shots while they were being interviewed.

Speaker 17 Tommy Lee is sitting there with a big bottle of Jack Daniels. And nine o'clock in the morning, the offers me,

Speaker 17 hey, you want some Jack Daniels? I'm like, no, I'm good. It was a little early for me.
The time of Jack Daniels was my drink, but not nine o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 17 So, but he looks at me like I'm crazy. I guess, well, what's wrong with this guy? He doesn't want Jack Daniels.

Speaker 13 So, yeah.

Speaker 13 That's good. He was a good host.

Speaker 17 Yeah, he was. He was.

Speaker 13 You know,

Speaker 13 it actually, but to be honest, it actually does kind of reflect well on him because so many of these guys would pay absolutely no attention to the photog and they might treat you like you were a peon, you were a nothing.

Speaker 13 And the fact that he offered you some hospitality and thought like you might enjoy some Jack Daniels does speak well of him.

Speaker 17 Exactly, exactly. You know, I've been lucky.

Speaker 17 Most of the people I met over my career have been just really cool, laid-back, and nice people, even the superstars like McCarty, Alton John, just nice people, just really great to see.

Speaker 13 Has there been anyone who's a jerk and you remember?

Speaker 17 Yes, and I remember, but should I say his name? He's in the book.

Speaker 13 Yes. Yes.

Speaker 17 I wasn't, I mean, I feel bad because we just lost him. I mean, Ace Freely wasn't so nice, Ace Freely kiss.
He was kind of, I shouldn't say, but he was not so friendly.

Speaker 17 And he was quite, and the thing that got me was he was questioning my lighting, which you don't do.

Speaker 17 So he's questioning my lighting.

Speaker 13 Honestly, you put yourself in Barry's good hands and then you just smile or do what he tells you. Like he's got exactly exactly the angles.
He will make you look great no matter who you are.

Speaker 13 And with these guys, they're so cool. One of my favorite pictures in the book is

Speaker 13 between, it's, it's of Bon Jovi, and it's them at the Byrne Arena in New Jersey. It says, let's see.
Yeah. New York City or the Brendan Byrne Arena, New Jersey.

Speaker 13 It's full hairband, rocker, Bon Jovi. And then on the next

Speaker 13 page is Spon Jovi with Dee Snyder.

Speaker 13 I mean, I don't even love John Bon Jovi anymore because he's gotten political and he's annoying, but I still have a fond, yeah, I still have a soft spot in my heart for that version of Bon Jovi, which was just classic 80s hairband.

Speaker 13 Right.

Speaker 17 Well, funny story with that is I'm not a big Bon Jovi fan, just musically, and I'm not a big 80s hairband. I'm a classic rock guy, blues guy.
So Bon Jovi almost didn't make it into my book.

Speaker 17 My wife Shelly said, you got to put Bon Jovi. I'm like, oh, I don't like his music, though.
He's like pop rock. And she kept pushing me.

Speaker 17 We had a dear friend, a close friend of Shelly, who passed away about a few years ago. And she was a big Bon Jovi fan.
So I said, you know what? We're going to put it in for Melissa.

Speaker 17 So he's in the book. Yes.

Speaker 13 I appreciate Melissa getting to do that, even in the way she did it, because a lot of us gals love that band.

Speaker 13 I mean, I'm totally team sambora 100 team sambora yeah exactly yeah who is one of the greatest songwriters ever but um when you pulled it together how did you decide what was going to make the cut and what wasn't because i know you have endless streams of these well so back when i shot i used to shoot slides you know before digital slides black and white negative so i had thousands of images to go through i had to scan them it was thousands of dollars,

Speaker 17 days and weeks, well, actually, I should say months of work just picking out. I got an old light box.
I didn't have my light box anymore.

Speaker 17 So I bought a new light box with my little loop, started picking through photos, and we narrowed down.

Speaker 17 I think it's 136 pages and might have to do a volume too, because I left out some great shots that I, you know, thinking of now that, oh, why didn't I put that in?

Speaker 13 Ah, now you and I,

Speaker 13 we met together for years doing headshots and so on, but we don't usually talk politics when we're together. However, I saw you at CPAC

Speaker 13 the last time I was there. So I have a pretty good idea of what your politics are.

Speaker 13 So

Speaker 13 I'm just wondering whether your politics have played any role in your efforts to promote your book.

Speaker 17 Oh, yes. And

Speaker 17 same goes along with my headshot

Speaker 17 business, too. I've been canceled.
I've been people who won't use me because when they find out that I'm a conservative, pro-Trump guy, MAGA, whatever you want to call it. Oh, yeah, I get canceled.

Speaker 17 I had a

Speaker 17 best of New Jersey was going to interview me for my book. And it's just a local New Jersey website where I live.

Speaker 17 Two hours before I'm supposed to drive to their studio, I get a call from or an email, this long email saying, you know, our staff has done a deep dive on you, and we don't think you'd be a good fit.

Speaker 17 You're a little too controversial, you know. And, you know, I wrote back to the guy and I basically said, hey, I had no plans, no intention of discussing politics.

Speaker 17 I was coming to discuss my rock and roll book. I said, I'm allowed to have my opinions.
And if you don't like the fact that I speak out pro-military, pro-veterans,

Speaker 17 anti-Hamas, that bothers you, anti-men and women's, girls' bathrooms. These things bother you, then I guess I don't belong in your show.
But yes, it does happen.

Speaker 13 I get canceled. It's amazing.
Cancel culture comes for us all eventually on the right. And that's why we have to stick together.

Speaker 13 Honestly, that's why, that's one of the many reasons why people need to buy Rock and Soul by Barry Morgenstein Holding Up Again. It's a beautiful book.

Speaker 13 I actually think this could do one of two things. Well, one of many things, but I'm just going to name how I am going to use this.

Speaker 13 This is going to be my gift for, and they listen to the show, so surprise. My girlfriends always come for like a Christmas luncheon every year, and they're all getting a copy of this.

Speaker 13 So set several aside for me.

Speaker 13 I also think this will be a great hostess gift. It's right now, it's $69, but it's going for $59 today on Amazon.
So you can get $10 off, which is very reasonable price for this big, beautiful book.

Speaker 13 And it's so user-friendly, it's effortless for people. So it'd make a great coffee table book for Christmas, for Hanukkah, for any holiday that's coming up that you want to celebrate.

Speaker 13 Nobody ever gets each other like a nice, pretty book. That's always something that maybe your decorator would get for you.
But, like,

Speaker 13 people, if they get a book, they get somebody like a mystery or something or a biography.

Speaker 13 This is a great sort of beautiful option for people that will bring people a lot of joy because you're seeing all these great musicians who you grew up loving and listening to.

Speaker 13 And it's something lovely for people to just thumb through while they're sitting on the couch having a convo or having a drink with their spouse.

Speaker 17 Yes. And actually, and if they want a signed copy, then they can go to my website too, which is BarryMorgenstein.com.
So you have the choice. Okay.

Speaker 13 And Morganstein spelled with S-T-E-I-N.com. So we want to support Barry for a number of reasons, please, because I need him to stay in business for me personally.
But also

Speaker 13 because it's a beautiful book. And like, it's really rare to find a fair and balanced photographer who doesn't recoil when the entire Fox News staff walks through the door needing a headshot.

Speaker 13 And you're to be credited for that. And we should support you when you're coming out with something like this, especially because you will not be booked on Morning Joe.

Speaker 13 You will not be booked on Good Morning America.

Speaker 13 You will not be booked, even though this would be a great excuse for them to run great pictures and great clips that they all know everybody would enjoy, but they won't do it for reasons discussed.

Speaker 13 All right. So people go support Barry.
Rock and Soul, great name. It's back out now.
Can they just get it on Amazon too?

Speaker 17 Amazon, yes. That's without the autograph, but yes, on Amazon.

Speaker 13 Okay, yeah. But if you want to add an autograph, go to Mary, barrymorgenstein.com.
Thank you, my friend. Good luck with it.
Thank you. I really appreciate it.
Thank you.

Speaker 13 The pleasure is mine. It's great.
It's great. I genuinely love it.
You're going to love it. I'm not doing this just because Barry's a friend.
I really believe in the book.

Speaker 13 And trust me, you'll love it too. Back tomorrow with somebody else who you adore.

Speaker 13 Maureen Callahan in studio, full show.

Speaker 14 See you then.

Speaker 13 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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