Trump Storms 60, Michelle's Racial Complaints, and Legit Case Against Letitia James, with Walter Kirn and Sam Antar | Ep. 1185

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Speaker 3 Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Speaker 3 Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show and happy Monday.
What? Did you enjoy your sunlight this morning? I gotta say, I liked my sunlight.

Speaker 3 I'm gonna have it for 30 days and then it will be pitch black again in the morning and the evening. That's life in the Northeast under Daylight Savings Time.

Speaker 3 Thank you all for emailing in on your thoughts on Daylight Savings Time. The email is megan at MeganKelly.com.

Speaker 3 As a few key races across the country inch closer to Election Day, Democrats plan is to talk about one thing: Donald Trump.

Speaker 3 And now we learned that they are planning on taking him on, not just in advance of Tuesday, but for the next three years, with Barack Obama, who left office almost nine years ago.

Speaker 3 They tried that, you know. We tried that.
Don't you think I would have tried that? Name that movie. Don't you think I would have tried that? Name that movie.
That's today's movie. Trivia.

Speaker 3 We tried that. Most Democrats should be reminding themselves in advance of Kamala Harris running for president literally almost a year ago today.
How'd that work out? How'd that work?

Speaker 3 Did they rush to the polls? Was it enough to get her over the top? They did the double Obama. They had Michelle and Barack.

Speaker 3 Didn't go so well.

Speaker 3 And I'm not sure he's their solution, but we'll talk about it in one sec. Plus, President Trump sitting down with 60 minutes last night, arguing ICE raids have not gone far enough.

Speaker 3 That's not what Nora O'Donnell wanted to hear. And that he's much more attractive than Zoran Mamdani.
Plus, some more that was not aired on the broadcast. We'll show it to you.

Speaker 3 And Michelle Obama back in the news with a special on ABC: the style, the power,

Speaker 4 the look,

Speaker 3 and the complaining. As Stephen L.

Speaker 3 Miller on X, the best Twitter follow, as I've told you many times, not to be confused with Stephen Miller, the presidential advisor, also a good follow and a brilliant man. Stephen L.

Speaker 3 Miller said something to the effect of, it seems we've disappointed the Obamas again.

Speaker 3 That's exactly it. Once again, we've fallen short of what Michelle Obama expects of us.
We're deeply sorry. Deeply not.
Okay, we'll get to that too.

Speaker 3 Joining me today, Walter Kern, editor-at-large of County Highway and co-host of the America This Week podcast.

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Speaker 3 Walter, welcome back. Great to have you.

Speaker 4 Great to be here.

Speaker 3 I can't wait to talk about all of those things, but we're going to kick it off with 60 minutes, where Trump returned after having successfully sued them for what he said was a misleading edit on their interview with Kamala Harris, and they wound up settling the case, much to the consternation of many inside the CBS news organization.

Speaker 4 Eh, they got over it.

Speaker 3 So he sits with Nora O'Donnell and I have to tell you, to me it was very interesting watching Nora O'Donnell try to pretend she's just a totally fair, earnest, objective reporter with Donald Trump.

Speaker 3 It was seeping out. She loathes him.

Speaker 3 But watching her even try to pretend was fascinating because clearly she's going to be taken behind the Barry Weiss woodshed, which is a great woodshed, if she doesn't get in line.

Speaker 3 And our friend Barry is not really taking any prisoners over there. People are getting fired left or right.
We'll talk about it in a sec, but Nora O'Donnell doesn't want to be on the list.

Speaker 3 She already lost her gig as CBS News evening anchor. Now she's just being a correspondent on 60, which is fine, but she just, she doesn't want to lose that.
Then she's out to pasture.

Speaker 3 She loses that job. So she did her level best to act like she was nonpartisan.
But I'll just give you a flavor of how it went between the two of them when the interview started kicking off. SOT 1A.

Speaker 5 But they have to let the country. And you know what they have to do? All they have to do is raise five hands.
We don't need all of them.

Speaker 6 But so you're saying your plan is

Speaker 4 with all due respect, you've been talking about fixing the health care insurance benefit since 2015.

Speaker 5 Because of the Democrats.

Speaker 6 But since 2015, you've said you've fixed

Speaker 5 much better health care.

Speaker 4 But where is that?

Speaker 5 And I'd be willing to work with the Democrats on it.

Speaker 6 Even here in Florida, it has the highest number of residents on Obamacare in the country.

Speaker 5 And I'm saying we can fix it, Nora.

Speaker 6 You have helped end these government shutdowns in the past when they came about, and you did it by bringing.

Speaker 4 I'm very good at it. But

Speaker 5 I'm not going to do it by extortion, people.

Speaker 4 So then, what happens on November 15th when the kids don't get a paycheck?

Speaker 5 Schumer is a basket case. We're doing really well.

Speaker 6 Can I ask you, Mr. President, on that point, though, when the stock market is doing well, that doesn't affect everybody.
Not everybody is invested in the stock market.

Speaker 6 But there have been grocery prices.

Speaker 6 401ks, people of 401ks, their their 401ks are double what they were a year ago but for people that don't have 401ks or are not vested in the stock market but they've seen their grocery prices go up inflation you're annoying

Speaker 4 isn't she annoying she's so annoying well doesn't it give you a headache i feel schizophrenic now um she is annoying the problem is that she's caught between a barry weiss and a hard place because if she goes at all soft on donald trump then all of the you know people like Don Winslow and others on Twitter, the hardcore party disciplinarians will say, oh, she, you know, she bent the knee to the evil Barry Weiss.

Speaker 4 And then she won't be able to get a job at all if she's fired, which could easily happen.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 3 They're dropping like flies.

Speaker 4 Yeah, these people have to be thinking about their next employer, MS Now.

Speaker 4 or whatever it is going to be called.

Speaker 4 Thank you.

Speaker 3 That's right. So Nora O'Donnell goes out there.
And for most of the exchange, I felt uncomfortable because she just sort of tried to look like an ingenue, you know, like, but Mr. President, Mr.

Speaker 3 President, but she, every time he tried to make a point, she stepped on him. Can't have Donald Trump making points on 60 after all.

Speaker 3 And here was one he did manage to get out where she tried to press him on the horrible, terrible ICE raids.

Speaker 3 I mean, the narrative coming out of Team Blue right now, from Barack Obama on down, is that we're running around kidnapping American citizens in the streets with masked ICE agents and then you never see them again.

Speaker 3 Those are lies. We are not.
It is not true. The piece about Americans is a lie.
The Americans who have been deported by ICE were deported because they are children whose illegal mothers got deported.

Speaker 3 And then they asked the mothers, would you like your kids to remain here with some family members since they are American citizens?

Speaker 3 Or would you like to take them with you since you are their legal guardian, mom? And the moms have said, I'm taking them with me. So they got to to go too.

Speaker 3 And now that's translated into they're arresting American citizens. Okay, that's not what's happening.

Speaker 3 The American citizens who are being arrested, quote, in the streets, by the way, are the ones who are behaving terribly against ICE agents and at ICE arrests who commit crimes like assault or battery or trespass or vandalism.

Speaker 3 Same things you or I would be arrested for if we committed them in the street. In any event, she asks him whether these horrible, terrible ICE raids have gone too far.
Satwan

Speaker 6 Americans have been watching videos of ICE tackling a young mother, tear gas being used in a Chicago residential neighborhood, and the smashing of car windows. Have some of these raids gone too far?

Speaker 5 No, I think they haven't gone far enough because we've been held back by the judges, by the liberal judges that were put in by Biden and by Obama.

Speaker 6 You're okay with those tactics.

Speaker 5 Yeah, because you have to get the people out. You know, you have to look at the people.
Many of them are murderers.

Speaker 5 Many Many of them are people that were thrown out of their countries because they were criminals.

Speaker 6 But a lot of the people that your administration has arrested and deported aren't violent criminals. Landscapers, nannies, construction workers.

Speaker 4 Landscapers who are criminals.

Speaker 6 Now, look, look. The family of you.

Speaker 5 I need landscapers, and I need farmers more than anybody, okay?

Speaker 6 Is it your intent to deport people who do not have a criminal record?

Speaker 5 We have to start off with a policy, and the policy has to be, you came into the country illegally, you're going to go out.

Speaker 5 however you've also seen you're going to go out we're going to work with you and you're going to come back into our country legally

Speaker 4 walter

Speaker 3 by the way not asked um anything about the attacks on ice agents who are being shot at who have actual bounties on their heads who are uniformly dragged by outlets like cbs unfairly every night

Speaker 4 well i mean you know possession is nine-tenths of the law they say If you can get something into your possession, it's hard to get it back from you.

Speaker 4 I guess migration is easier when you flood over and you go across, you know, jungles and deserts and so on.

Speaker 4 These people, just to get here, have been through much worse than they're being put through to leave.

Speaker 4 First of all, they have the option of complying, which I'm sure you don't bust the glass if somebody's complying.

Speaker 4 Those videos come from people who are resisting.

Speaker 4 So it's always going to be ugly when you have to undo something that,

Speaker 4 you know, a law that wasn't paid attention to in the first place. It's going to be doubly ugly.
Why can't they see that?

Speaker 4 It wasn't Donald Trump who forced them to come to the country. And it isn't Donald Trump who's forcing them to resist the deportation that is apparently legal.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 what videos have to do with it, I don't know.

Speaker 4 I'm sure. And to call them landscapers and so on.
I mean, Charles Manson was a songwriter.

Speaker 4 Songwriter Charles Manson in jail.

Speaker 4 They are finding the most optimistic and rosiest way to portray the case of the illegals and

Speaker 4 they're trying to portray him in the absolute worst light.

Speaker 4 I mean,

Speaker 4 if we showed videos of some of these criminals at their worst and

Speaker 4 use those to illustrate the problem, I'm sure the shoe would be on the other foot. But instead,

Speaker 4 we get the edge cases of the deportations.

Speaker 3 Exactly right. Exactly right.
Rather than talking to us about Lake and Riley or Jocelyn Nogare or Rachel, was it Moran down in the Southeast who was raped and assaulted and murdered with her?

Speaker 3 She had five kids.

Speaker 3 No, we don't, Nora didn't spend time on that. And in fact, I think we know why, because she doesn't seem to have much of a problem with immigration,

Speaker 3 illegal immigration, or at least she didn't when she interviewed Kamala Harris. Here's a thought

Speaker 3 from last year when she came to Kamala Harris's defense on immigration after the presidential debate. Listen to this.

Speaker 6 When the topic of immigration came up, which is one that Donald Trump likes to hammer this administration on. He likes to call Kamala Harris wrongly the border czar.
That was not specifically her

Speaker 6 job.

Speaker 3 Yes, it was.

Speaker 3 See, it's subtle. Some people are on the nose with their bias and other people work it into their commentary like she does right there.
Yes, she was the border czar.

Speaker 3 She absolutely was the border czar.

Speaker 3 And that is Nora O'Donnell trying to run cover for Kamala Harris to remove that set of responsibilities from her so that she didn't have to share in what happened to this country, which is exactly what Trump and Tom Holman are trying to fix with these deportations and the ICE raids, right?

Speaker 3 It's like you can't, she was what she was one of the arsonists, Walter. So, of course, she's not going to be honest about the fire that's burning.

Speaker 4 Well, like I say, you know,

Speaker 4 arson, when you set the fire, is actually probably a pretty easy crime. Putting out a fire involves knocking down doors, breaking down walls.

Speaker 4 Writing a terrible situation is always going to be difficult and awkward.

Speaker 4 And picking it most awkward moments and most difficult moments as exemplary is, you know, that's dishonest news, but that's their stock in trade.

Speaker 4 As far as this revisionism about Kamala Harris's responsibility for the border, I mean, they can literally in five seconds find video of her proclaiming that or her being named that.

Speaker 4 Why is that a controversy? I mean, it's a fact of, you know, it's a fact of internet history unless they've already erased it.

Speaker 3 You know, that's what they do, as you well know. If it's a bad fact for them, they're very, very capable of erasing it.
Here,

Speaker 3 she decides to get, I mean, we heard this from Barack Obama. If people listen to AM update this morning, which they should,

Speaker 3 we played a soundbite of Barack Obama criticizing Donald Trump, saying he's weaponized the Department of Justice to go go after his political enemies.

Speaker 3 Like, this is a reason why you shouldn't vote Republican, because Trump has weaponized the DOJ to go after his political enemies.

Speaker 3 Meanwhile, it's not just what Joe Biden did to Trump, it's also what Barack Obama did to Trump, trying to set him up as a Russian stooge when Obama knew that he wasn't.

Speaker 3 All of his top intel people going to him saying, This is bullshit. This is a Hillary Clinton operation to try to tar Trump.
And Barack Obama said, Pedal to the metal, boys. Let's do this thing.

Speaker 3 But okay, that was him. Now here's Nora O'Donnell trying to ask Trump whether he's involved in political retribution with these indictments we've seen.
Watch here, Sat 2.

Speaker 6 James Comey, John Bolton, Letitia James were all recently indicted. There's a pattern to these names.
They're all public figures who have publicly denounced you. Is it political retribution?

Speaker 5 You know what? You know who got indicted?

Speaker 5 The man you're looking at. I got indicted and I was innocent.
And here I am because I was able to beat all of the nonsense that was thrown at me.

Speaker 5 And yet when you go after a dirty cop like Comey or a guy like Bolton, who I hear has, I don't know anything about it. I hear he took records all over the place.
Who knows?

Speaker 5 Letitia James is a terrible, dishonest person, in my opinion.

Speaker 6 Did you instruct the Department of Justice to go after them?

Speaker 5 Not in any way, shape, or form.

Speaker 5 No, you don't have to instruct them because they were so dirty, they were so crooked, they were so corrupt, that the honest people we have, Pam Bondi's doing a very good job, Cash Patel's doing a very good job.

Speaker 5 The honest people that we have go after them automatically.

Speaker 3 Is this retribution?

Speaker 5 No, it's the opposite. I think I've been very mild-mannered.
You're looking at a man who was indicted many times, and I had to beat the rap. Otherwise, I couldn't have run for president.

Speaker 5 They tried to get me not to run for president by going after me and by indicting me.

Speaker 3 You know, Walter, you notice that in these questions,

Speaker 3 when anybody asks Trump about whether this is political retribution,

Speaker 3 they don't insert the phrase, for what? What exactly, Nora, would it be political retribution for?

Speaker 3 And why do you feel the need to excise that from your question?

Speaker 4 I would fire her if I were Barry White.

Speaker 3 I would do

Speaker 4 because these questions are beneath 60 minutes.

Speaker 4 They ignore vast factual continents that have already emerged from the sea and aren't going back under it. And,

Speaker 4 you know, isn't all legal punishment retribution in some sense? I mean, when we punish a murderer, it's retribution for their murder. When we punish a spy, it's retribution for espionage.

Speaker 4 In the political realm, if you punish someone who has committed crimes,

Speaker 4 I suppose it's retribution, but it's retribution on behalf of the people of the United States.

Speaker 4 That's who these laws protect. They don't protect Donald Trump.
And to the extent to which they have broken them, they deserve to be punished for all of us.

Speaker 4 Now, Nora doesn't know of their crimes or doesn't consider them crimes or is hiding the fact that she knows. I don't know which, but all of those are actionable offenses.

Speaker 4 If you are a 60 Minutes reporter, that is the most misleading set of questions I can imagine. I don't know why she feels the need at this late date to pretend that we don't know what we do.

Speaker 4 Kill me was indicted. Why doesn't she actually

Speaker 4 reprise what he was indicted for? Lying to Congress, not by hurting Donald Trump.

Speaker 3 Or if you want to go this way, if you want to go to, okay, Trump instructed them to do it, then have the post. This is what I would have done if I wanted to go that route.

Speaker 3 I would have pulled up his true social post that he then took down, directed at Pam Bondi.

Speaker 3 Pam, you wrote, I've reviewed over 30 statements and posts saying that essentially same old story as last time, all talk, no action, nothing's being done.

Speaker 3 What about Comey, Adam Shifty Schiff, Letitia? They're all guilty as hell, but nothing's going to be done.

Speaker 3 And then he ended it with, there is a great case, and many lawyers and legal pundits say so. Lindsey Halligan's a really good lawyer and likes you a lot.
We can't delay any longer.

Speaker 3 It's killing our reputation and credibility. They impeached me twice and indicted me five times over nothing.
Justice must be served. Now, that's what I would have said.
What does that that mean, Mr.

Speaker 3 Trump? It does appear that you interfered. It appears, you know, whatever days later, we had a Lindsey Halligan and we had indictments against Comey and Tish James.
Why can't you just admit it?

Speaker 3 It was political retribution for what they did to you. Honestly, Walter, that's a way better question because it's clearly true.
And most of us don't give a shit because they deserve it.

Speaker 4 Well, and the other thing is, it was people like her who made James Comey and Letitia James into these secular saints.

Speaker 4 Now, you see, what they're doing is they're trying to harvest the propaganda campaign they ran on after these people.

Speaker 4 These were never wonderful people in the first place, but when they were prosecuting Donald Trump, they made them into secular heroes. And now they're listing them as though they're untouchables.

Speaker 4 Letitia James, you know,

Speaker 4 the icon of New York justice, James Comey,

Speaker 4 the prince of probity, the man who wrote

Speaker 4 a higher calling. In other words, they built these people up and now they can't believe that the bowling pins that they set up are coming down.

Speaker 4 It's their credibility that's on the line, frankly, and that's why they're defending them because we all remember when they put the crowns on these folks.

Speaker 3 That's so true. Honestly, it's like,

Speaker 3 I don't even think Trump should bother trying to deny it. Like, look, I'm in favor of it.
And I certainly made my opinion known that I'd love to see something happen if the crime were there.

Speaker 3 But neither these prosecutors nor these grand juries would have indicted had they not found probable cause for a crime.

Speaker 3 You know, my personal preference aside, the process went through the correct hoops. These grand juries actually declined to return a true bill on some of the proposed charges.

Speaker 3 And so clearly these left-wing juries.

Speaker 3 in the Eastern District of Virginia, et cetera, found probable cause. Now the legal system will play out as it should.

Speaker 3 And by the way, where was Nora O'Donnell in 60 Minutes talking to Kamala Harris about Joe Biden saying to the New York Times in April 2022,

Speaker 3 I want to see Donald Trump indicted. I want, Merrick Garland is too slow.
60 Minutes never, nothing, nothing. Bill Whitaker was like, gee, Kamala Harris, you're hot.

Speaker 3 No, it wasn't quite that bad, but that's how it felt.

Speaker 4 One thing Trump doesn't do enough is list those people who were persecuted besides him.

Speaker 4 When she made that list of Comey, Letitia, and so on, he should have come back with Steve Bannon, Roger Stone, all the people who actually went to freaking jail.

Speaker 4 And I mean, weren't just indicted, but went to jail. And not only that, he has to, I think, stand up for the fact that

Speaker 4 it is grand juries that did this.

Speaker 4 it is uh you know americans who made these charges donald trump didn't if the grand juries in those places had thought that he was on some kind of witch hunt without evidence and so on they could have told him to shove it and they didn't and you know so that's who she's questioning at this point um

Speaker 4 she's questioning the justice system she loved it a minute ago but now it's the plaything of donald trump

Speaker 3 yeah exactly exactly. None of the questions or framing has context, which is what an actually sound, honest reporter would make sure of.

Speaker 3 This is, after all, CBS news. It is not sound warfare.

Speaker 4 When you ask somebody if this is political retribution, and yet do not

Speaker 4 at least add with a proviso, yes, there also is evidence.

Speaker 4 But, you know, then when you act as though there may not be, when you actually let the audience assume that perhaps this has been done without any basis, then you're being misleading.

Speaker 4 And I don't think you belong on 60 minutes.

Speaker 3 I mean, especially the Bolton one, which even the left-wing newspapers have acknowledged was started under the Biden administration,

Speaker 3 the investigation into whether he... wrongfully disclosed classified information.
No, she didn't even mention that.

Speaker 3 By the way, we're going to do a deep dive into the Tish James indictment as the last block of our show today with a man who knows who was convicted of committing fraud himself.

Speaker 3 And he says, Trust me, she's done it. She denies it, but we're going to go into it.
Okay, here's another one.

Speaker 3 Trump was asked about how, and this too is a lie, about how oh, Zoran Mamdani is basically the Trump of the left, which, I mean, talk about a laundering of Zoran Mamdani. Watch this.

Speaker 6 Zorhan Mandani, 34-year-old Democratic socialist.

Speaker 5 He's the the first person. Communist, not socialist, communist.

Speaker 5 He's far worse than a socialist.

Speaker 6 Some people have compared him to a left-wing version of you, charismatic, breaking the old rules. What do you think about that?

Speaker 5 Well, I think I'm a much better-looking person than him, right?

Speaker 6 But what if Mondami becomes mayor?

Speaker 5 It's going to be hard for me as the president to give a lot of money to New York

Speaker 5 because if you have a communist running New York, all you're doing is wasting the money you're sending there. So I don't know that he's one, and I'm not a a fan of Cuomo one way or the other.

Speaker 5 But if it's going to be between a bad Democrat and a communist, I'm going to pick the bad Democrat all the time, to be honest with you.

Speaker 3 So well said. That last line, that's exactly right.
If it's between a communist and a bad Democrat, I'll pick the bad Democrat. Go ahead, Walter.

Speaker 4 Megan,

Speaker 4 Nora O'Donnell just asserted on CBS News on its crown jewel 60 Minutes that some people have compared Mom Donnie to Trump. Have you yet heard that? Of all the comparisons I've heard, Mom Donnie.

Speaker 3 Two peas in a pod.

Speaker 4 Donald Trump is the one that I haven't heard. I don't know who some people are that they, you know, they're like the experts that they find.

Speaker 3 Is she a Cuomo voter, possibly? Like, why would she say that in 60 minutes to 60 minutes viewers?

Speaker 4 Well, I don't, I don't know. But Trump, Pump, Trump came back with I'm better looking because he was insulting properly this unseriousness and the silliness of the question.

Speaker 4 What's he supposed to say to that? Some people have compared you. What?

Speaker 4 No,

Speaker 4 I don't know who they are. Bring them on here.
I don't believe they exist. Next question.
I mean,

Speaker 3 if he had said, if he had said who,

Speaker 3 she would have been so uncomfortable.

Speaker 4 Right. Exactly.
Let's hear. When? Did that happen today, yesterday?

Speaker 4 What he should have said is that, know,

Speaker 4 well, do those people admire him, but hate me?

Speaker 4 Are they saying that he's terrible? Because most people on your network use Donald Trump as a synonym for the devil. So they must hate him, right? I mean,

Speaker 4 now Donald Trump, now to call somebody Donald Trump is a compliment on CBS. I don't understand what they're saying.
Oh, he because he breaks the rules. Also, what rule has he broken? I mean,

Speaker 4 what is Mundani doing that in New York is actually so controversial?

Speaker 3 Well, I mean, his last campaign ad, I think, was in Arabic. That's a little controversial, but not for the reasons that they attacked Donald Trump.

Speaker 4 I mean, this guy. Oh, that reminds me of Donald Trump when he does a campaign commercial in Arabic.

Speaker 4 What?

Speaker 3 So I do think it's interesting, though, that you've got... Like, there is a dynamic underfoot here at CBS.
Before I go on to it, actually, I'll just play one more. This is,

Speaker 3 oh, sorry, two more.

Speaker 3 I don't want to spend our whole time talking about Nora O'Donnell, but here was some news a little bit about who's going to be president or run for president on the GOP ticket in 28, SOT5.

Speaker 6 There's been a lot of talk about 2028 and who will be at the top of the Republican ticket. Can you set the record straight? You're not going to try and run for a third term?

Speaker 5 Well, I don't even think about it. I will tell you, a lot of people want me to run, but the difference between us and the Democrats is we really do have a strong bench.

Speaker 5 I don't want to use names because it's inappropriate, but it's too early.

Speaker 6 But people do like when you start talking about whether you like J.D. Vance or Secretary.
I do like J.D.

Speaker 5 Vance. I like Marker Ruby.

Speaker 5 I like so many people. We have an unbelievable bench.

Speaker 3 My take on this is the same as this, Ben, which is Trump just, this is the guy who ran Apprentice and Celebrity Apprentice.

Speaker 3 And he's definitely not going to tell you who's going to win the final boardroom contest until anything closer than the last episode.

Speaker 4 He's a lot smarter than she is. And it was clear there, because even though he acted a little annoyed, she fell into his trap.

Speaker 4 He has her talking about Marco Rubio and J.D. Vance in the 2028 election.
And already, she's already giving free airtime to that. She's, you know, she's already getting us focused on that.

Speaker 4 And all he has to do is say, I might run in 2028.

Speaker 4 And he's drawn all the attention to the Republican ticket, and that's all it takes. I mean, stay cool.

Speaker 4 Yeah, and in that sense, he's controlling the conversation. And yet, she thinks her gotchas are controlling it.

Speaker 4 And once again, she said, a lot of people are saying, do they have to preface everything with experts say, or some people are saying, or a lot of people are saying, there's CBS news, for God's sake.

Speaker 4 Why don't they talk about themselves?

Speaker 4 Just say it.

Speaker 3 Just say it. Could it be Marco?

Speaker 3 Could it be JD? Have you considered that? You said

Speaker 3 Marco and JD would make an amazing ticket. Why? Say that.

Speaker 4 Like, whatever. Okay.

Speaker 4 Exactly.

Speaker 3 They're always

Speaker 4 calling some man in the street who doesn't exist.

Speaker 3 Who's like more credible than Nora O'Donnell? I mean, truly, it undermines you as a reporter, right?

Speaker 3 It's like, I don't have the credibility or the gravitas to actually ask this question, but some people do.

Speaker 3 Here is, this is from the extended interview. It didn't air on 60, but it was part of the interview interview that got scrapped.

Speaker 3 Now I believe they're posting all their presidential transcripts on cbs.com or 60.com because of what happened with Kamala Harris. At least they said that was going to be their new policy.

Speaker 3 So here is an exchange that did not make the cut. Watch this,.6.

Speaker 5 The press got behind her. Oh, they were so behind her.
But eventually she failed because she couldn't speak. She wasn't a very intelligent person, in my opinion, but she couldn't speak properly.

Speaker 5 She could not speak. And actually, 60 Minutes paid me a lot of money.
And you don't have to put this on because I don't want to embarrass you, and I'm sure you're not.

Speaker 5 You have a great, I think you have a great new leader, frankly, because the young woman that's leading your whole enterprise is a great,

Speaker 5 from what I know, I don't know her about it here, she's a great person. But 60 Minutes was forced to pay me a lot of money because they took her answer out that was so bad, it was election changing.

Speaker 5 two nights before the election, and they put a new answer in. And they paid me a lot of money for that.

Speaker 5 You can't have fake news. You've got to have legit news.
And I think that it's happening.

Speaker 5 Mr. President.
I see good things happening in the news. I really do.
And I think one of the best things that happened is this show and new ownership, CBS and new ownership.

Speaker 5 I think it's the greatest thing that's happened in a long time to a free and open and good press.

Speaker 3 Now, she wasn't so interruptive on that one, Walter, because she's like, there's no way one second of this is airing.

Speaker 3 go go ahead but but but am i correct did you say that they make available that which they have cut out now yeah on youtube they post it that's a victory that's a huge victory oh they only did it because he sued because it became a national controversy because people felt they actively interfered with the presidential election because what's so controversial about just showing an actual exchange or showing the transcript of the actual exchange versus what you aired so yes it was a victory but it was like so, so such a simple thing to do.

Speaker 4 It is a simple thing to do, and it's a common sense thing to do. And they never did it before because they wanted to hide their sins.
And now they've gotten caught and forced to do it.

Speaker 4 But it allows a chess game on the part of the interviewee that didn't exist before, which is, as Trump said, you can now say things that you know they're going to cut out.

Speaker 4 And you have a sort of second interview.

Speaker 4 You have like the black market interview in which you praise, in which you praise barry weiss and so on and you know it's going to be cut out but you know it's also going to be available and can be clipped and circulated on social media so there are now two 60 minutes interviews every time there is one and one includes i bet you will cut this out and then they do um and then it circulates anyway that they have

Speaker 4 They have made some progress against the deceptive press. And that innovation is one.
And the fact that Barry Weiss is in charge of CBS News is another.

Speaker 4 And I think that's a much bigger deal than people are letting on because whatever their viewership is, even compared to this podcast, I'm sure it's smaller in a lot of ways. Yeah, it's

Speaker 4 but I was just going to say it's authentic.

Speaker 3 And their morning numbers are in third place, which is the kiss of death. And their evening numbers, I think, are in third place.
They're all in third place.

Speaker 3 CBS has never been great and they're especially weak right now. Keep going.

Speaker 4 But but but but it shows that these places are penetrable. CBS News, next to the New York Times, is the historic crown jewel of what is called the establishment liberal media.

Speaker 4 You know, back to the days of Bill Paley, whatever. And that it could have a change in its executive

Speaker 4 leader and in its editorial policy, I don't think is appreciated as the sea change it really is.

Speaker 4 Well, it's actually

Speaker 4 the last thing they wanted to go. that's their tiera

Speaker 3 well they had a change at the top at 60 with their executive producer prior to barry now post barry we reported this late last week uh there are reports that scott pelly may be on his way out which i totally believe because barry is not an insane lunatic there's no way she didn't look at him here's scott pelly okay ready walter this is how he does every every interview this is him

Speaker 3 listening audience i've got my reading glasses at the end of my nose.

Speaker 3 That didn't happen, terrible conservative person.

Speaker 3 Trust me, that's a lie. Another terrible lie by evil conservatives.
That's Scott Pelley. So he's, I believe, will be on his way out.

Speaker 3 And today, or yesterday, whatever, a couple days ago, it hit the news that the next one to go.

Speaker 3 I will show you who we believe the next one to go is. It's

Speaker 3 this person here in SOT 29.

Speaker 9 Please don't call it a ride. That is not a free ride.
Whenever a man goes up, you have never said to an astronaut, Boy, what a ride.

Speaker 9 You know, we duplicated the same trajectory that Alan Shepard did back in the day, pretty much.

Speaker 4 We didn't call that a ride.

Speaker 9 It was called a flight. It was called a journey because

Speaker 9 a ride implies that it's something frivolous or something that's lighthearted. There was nothing frivolous about what we did.

Speaker 9 You had stuffed animals and the machine that we were on megan and what it took for the people to get that machine up and running to get us up and get us back down safely so you know i'm very disappointed and very saddened by it and i also say this

Speaker 9 the what it's doing to inspire other women and young girls i'm inspirational don't ignore that it's called a ride because

Speaker 4 it's called a ride because you weren't steering

Speaker 4 okay

Speaker 9 that say wow i never thought i could do that

Speaker 9 to see you doing it at this stage of my life who would have thunk it not me no don't don't ignore

Speaker 3 how inspired everybody is.

Speaker 4 Fly the rocket. Is that what you're suggesting?

Speaker 3 No, but she, but also a machine. A machine did it.
That's a machine, Walter. Okay, Alan, take a seat.
That's who I'm shocked, shocked to have to report to you is reportedly next to go.

Speaker 4 I'm a former professor of English, and I can't think of another word for what she did. Is there some other word besides ride?

Speaker 3 Flights, a mission. Weren't you paying attention? It was a mission

Speaker 4 it was a it was a mission to talk about a ride as though it were a mission that was the mission it was a propaganda mission based on a fair the world's nothing frivolous

Speaker 4 the most expensive carnival ride in history which is what it was

Speaker 3 lauren sanchez had her her

Speaker 3 astronaut suit unzipped to her navel with her enormous silicone brush sticking out nothing frivolous about what we do.

Speaker 3 Okay, this can cost you. It can cost you your credibility with an audience that was already waning.
This got a lot of tongues wagging within 60 minutes. They knew she made a fool of herself.

Speaker 3 And on top of this, I told this audience, we went to the Time 100 this year, and there was Gail.

Speaker 3 Every table with celebrities going over, glomming, buddying up, like, like, I'm Oprah's best friend.

Speaker 3 I'm inserting the dialogue, but of course, if you know me, I might be able to get you invited to an Oprah party.

Speaker 3 This is how she, you know, most people, especially in our business, would rather be caught dead than trying to buddy up to the Blake livelies of the world.

Speaker 3 Her instincts are exactly the opposite because she spends her free time on David Geffen's yacht with the Obamas and Oprah.

Speaker 3 All of this is alienating, especially to a morning show audience, Walter, which is why I believe she will be soon to go.

Speaker 4 Well, what does she actually do there again? I mean, I'm not clear. What is her?

Speaker 4 You know, she just comes around and flavors the background or appears, you know, as an ad hoc,

Speaker 4 improvised.

Speaker 3 She's one of the three main morning show hosts. She's like, she's part of the trifecta, the brain trust they put out there.
Right.

Speaker 4 You know, it's really hard to report on the media when you no longer watch it, but I do my best.

Speaker 3 So many of you. I've given you the clip from which you can make all your decisions.

Speaker 4 Right, right. But so many of these people are kind of exotic at this point because they're not the central figures they used to be.
CBS News is not the central institution it used to be.

Speaker 4 It may be, again, it made, you know, attempt to come back.

Speaker 4 And I don't know if Barry's CBS is going to gain viewership in new demographics or just she's there to stop the bleeding or what they expect finally. But

Speaker 4 get rid of her. I mean, the thing was failing.

Speaker 4 Get rid of all of them, frankly.

Speaker 4 I'm trying to think of anybody in my memory of who I've seen on CBS recently who I would believe is, you know,

Speaker 4 necessary to keep. Who?

Speaker 3 You know, it's going to be really hard.

Speaker 3 I don't know. The only one who's coming to mind is I love Ricky Kleeman, who is a legal commentator,

Speaker 3 who used to work at Court TV

Speaker 3 and then went to CBS and she's married to Bill Bratton, former New York City police commissioner. They're a law and order kind of couple and a law and order kind of family.

Speaker 3 And she helped me when I was very young trying to break into journalism. That's really the only one that's coming to mind.

Speaker 3 Wait, while we're on the subject of reporters and media.

Speaker 3 Oh, by the way, I should point out John Dickerson's also leaving CBS, which is interesting. He's the one who couldn't quite find the motive in the Charlie Kirk shooting.
Okay, Okay, sure.

Speaker 4 Okay, there's a

Speaker 4 this entire network missed the fact that the president was a vegetable. Therefore, I think they should all be fired.

Speaker 4 Except for your friend, who I think should be made anchor.

Speaker 4 That's

Speaker 3 she'd be amazing.

Speaker 4 She'd be amazing.

Speaker 3 Okay, now wait. There was news last week from a former NBC reporter.

Speaker 3 Hold on a second. Can you go there? Is this what it is? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 Speaking of John Dickerson leaving. And her name is Michelle Kaczynski.
Now, Michelle Kaczynski used to work at NBC News. And then she wound up at CNN for a short stint.

Speaker 3 And now I don't believe she's employed.

Speaker 3 Not any place visibly. Anyway.
Okay. She's a big Trump hater, this gal.

Speaker 3 And she tweeted out on, I guess this was Wednesday, 1028, John Dickerson leaving CBS and CBS looking to hire Scott Jennings, because that was another report that Barry was looking to poach Scott from CNN, tells you instantly all you need to know about the revamped network.

Speaker 3 Revamped is in air quotes. Well, actual quotes, because it's a tweet.

Speaker 3 So she disapproves of bringing on Scott Jennings and of John Dickerson leaving. And Michelle Kaczynski, I mean, she knows a thing or two about broadcasting and how to fuck them up.

Speaker 3 Here she is at NBC after a,

Speaker 3 I think it was a hurricane caused alleged flood waters in certain parts in a canoe trying to make it look like she's basically in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

Speaker 3 Whereupon, for the listening audience, firemen walk right by her, walk right by her canoe, totally fine, and on their own feet. And Matt Lauer has one of the best lines ever in response.
Watch.

Speaker 10 But first, the severe flooding here in the northeast as more rain continues to fall today. NB sees Michelle Kaczynski.
I guess she's in the canoe. Is in Wayne, New Jersey this morning.

Speaker 10 Michelle, good morning to you.

Speaker 11 Good morning. Well, obviously, we're getting a nice break from the rain, but not the flooding.
This is essentially now a part of the Kassaic River in this neighborhood.

Speaker 11 It rushed in yesterday through the stream, and it's really tough to control a canoe or a boat when you're out in it. It's much deeper back there because this is

Speaker 11 a little bit more.

Speaker 10 Actually, Michelle, I'll take it. Is there some kind of severe drop-off there between the floor granite? Hold to go back.
We saw these guys a second ago, Michelle, walking.

Speaker 4 Are these holy men walking on top of water? What's going on?

Speaker 11 Why walk when you can ride, you guys? When you have a ride like this, why would you want to walk?

Speaker 3 Have you run ashore?

Speaker 11 Well, they wouldn't let me go back into the deep water because they were afraid I would just drift out.

Speaker 4 I mean, she's a prize idiot. She stayed with the bit after the bit was blown.
I mean, she kept paddling. She kept pretending to paddle.
Listen, I grew up in Minnesota.

Speaker 4 I'm one of the old school canoeists of America. I've been in birch bark canoes.
I mean, the minute anybody saw her hold on that paddle, it didn't matter if the water was six inches deep.

Speaker 4 They knew it was fake.

Speaker 4 That's like watching somebody hold a gun by the barrel okay

Speaker 4 um

Speaker 4 they apparently have nobody who they have nobody who goes outside in that entire group i i mean you'd think somebody lives up in maine or you know upstate new york apparently it's all people who live in soho on the top floor of a you know a building because letting her out there to paddle that way was a sin and what did they think why didn't they why didn't they actually take this seriously?

Speaker 4 We just got caught.

Speaker 4 Like, they just, they laughed it off in the studio, and she apparently went with it right to the end. She couldn't.

Speaker 3 Well, she wasn't there much longer. She, she wasn't there much longer.
I mean, good for Matt Lauer, I have to say, for calling her out.

Speaker 3 That's, I mean, every once in a while, you get a reminder of why they paid Matt Lauer so much money, notwithstanding.

Speaker 4 But Megan behind the scenes.

Speaker 4 Megan, you were on the news. That wasn't her idea.
She, she didn't want to be in that canoe.

Speaker 4 know.

Speaker 4 You think that she came up with that? I need a canoe. Let's go get one and I'll paddle.

Speaker 3 It's possible. It's possible because the person that would do it is just as dumb as the person that would think it up.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 Like most reporters will be like, I'm not getting in a fucking canoe. There's two inches of water out there.

Speaker 4 I'm going to look like an idiot.

Speaker 3 I won't even be able to get the oar enough in the water to push my fake canoe,

Speaker 3 which she couldn't, by the way. She was having that difficulty.

Speaker 3 But here's a little bit about: here's the other story that got Michelle Kaczynski in the news back in October 20, 2020.

Speaker 3 She left CNN earlier that year, but there was a scandal involving her.

Speaker 3 She denied it, but she was in the news for allegedly having an affair while at CNN with the British ambassador to the United States, who later, he was under investigation for Intel leaks.

Speaker 3 He was a lot older than she was. He was caught for the listening audience.
He looks a little like Prince Andrew here with like disheveled hair. He's a lot older.
And she denied it.

Speaker 3 She said tabloids printing incorrect information about my private life is unacceptable. There's a great deal wrong and is simply false about what is being reported.

Speaker 3 So I guess I'm being kind of generous in saying she denied it. She said some of what was reported was untrue.
And now she's out there

Speaker 3 opining that I guess John Dickerson needs to stay at CBS and Scott Jennings should not go to CBS because in her view, that's wrong. And I'll just give you one more about this reporter.

Speaker 3 We covered this when it happened.

Speaker 3 This is May of 2024. A few weeks ago, I had dinner with a few couples, friends of friends, all American, all were well-educated and successful in careers.

Speaker 3 They seemed great, exclamation point, on the surface, period, for like an hour, period. But slowly, over a few drinks, they began to let slip their MAGA natures.
And then she goes on.

Speaker 3 Yeah, she goes on from there, she says,

Speaker 3 as it went on, my friends and I realized we were surrounded by otherwise carefully closeted MAGAs.

Speaker 3 It's funny how the extremist or just wrong beliefs can't help but leak out, even when you least expect them and from people you least expect. This dinner continues to haunt me.

Speaker 3 They all seem so dot dot dot

Speaker 4 normal.

Speaker 3 When I asked the couple who were my old friends how they didn't know, they said that in their upscale Florida neighborhood, people are extremely careful not to ever broach or debate the subject.

Speaker 3 This is not healthy.

Speaker 3 It's so picture-perfect representative of our American media, Walter.

Speaker 4 Well, as a fraud herself, I'm surprised she can't see through frauds better.

Speaker 3 Game knows game.

Speaker 4 What she's really surprised by is that rich people who go to dinner could support Donald Trump.

Speaker 4 That's how they fooled her, you know, because what she's really admitting to is that not only do I live in a bubble, I expect that everybody else in these neighborhoods and in the kind of apartments where I eat dinner are also in my bubble.

Speaker 4 And as a reporter, to act surprised like this shows you're not much of a reporter. You just assume everybody of a certain social class thinks a certain way.
You never think to ask them questions.

Speaker 4 You never find out who they actually are. And then when they surprise you in all your prejudiced, stereotypical beliefs about the upper middle class, you're shocked.

Speaker 3 They were well-educated, she writes. They were successful.

Speaker 4 I think these were neutral.

Speaker 4 They drove a BMW. I didn't know BMW drivers could...
could back Trump. I mean, one of them went to Sarah Lawrence.
I didn't know you could go to Sarah Lawrence and back Trump.

Speaker 4 Like, who is this person? In other words, I just said that no one at CBS News has ever paddled a canoe. Apparently, nobody, or at least not her, has ever, you know, been to a mixed dinner party.

Speaker 4 She just admitted that she never consorts with the enemy, yet she's supposed to tell us what goes on in America.

Speaker 3 Shocking. This shocking display of,

Speaker 3 how did she put it?

Speaker 3 Extreme intolerance. What was it? Oh, extremist or just wrong beliefs.

Speaker 3 And the couple who were my friends, even they didn't know. How did these people get here? My God,

Speaker 3 who's manning the gate? Well, in any event, it's no longer Michelle Grasinski.

Speaker 4 She narrated it like you were correct, like a vampire movie. Suddenly, they started sprouting fangs, and I saw the blood dripping from their tongue.
You know,

Speaker 4 did she say how she saved herself?

Speaker 3 How she got out of there alive from the no, I guess she just thought it would be appropriate to just go to Twitter and rip on her new friends publicly in front of, you know, however many people saw right that's the way you handle it right like you you go to twitter to resolve private disputes that's the classy above-board way to do these things

Speaker 4 there's a famous quote from the film critic pauline kahle she couldn't figure out how uh uh richard nixon got elected because nobody she knew voted for him um

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's from the 1970s. This is the version.
This is the current version of that. I don't see

Speaker 4 how Donald Trump got elected because, you know,

Speaker 4 everybody I know voted for somebody else. And I only find myself by surprise in the company of people who didn't.
And it shocks me that they even exist.

Speaker 4 Somebody elected him. You know, I'm sure you've been curating your social life pretty carefully, but it was probably inevitable that one night you'd end up at dinner with one of these people.

Speaker 3 Here's my final word on it.

Speaker 3 Scott Jennings should not go from CNN to CBS News. This is my hot take of the day.
He will be quickly rendered irrelevant because CBS News is irrelevant.

Speaker 3 60 still has some sway, but other than that, they never make news for any reason. And what made Scott Jennings a household name is his fiery debates over on CNN and being outnumbered by everyone.

Speaker 3 It's like 10 to 1, and he can hold his own.

Speaker 3 They don't have a forum that is conducive to those kinds of debates on CBS. And so while maybe he could make more money, maybe he thinks it's more prestigious.
It's not.

Speaker 3 None of them is.

Speaker 3 He should stay right where he is because the one thing he has at CNN is relevance since he's so much different than everyone else in there.

Speaker 4 Couldn't agree more.

Speaker 4 He's smart, but they make him look really smart on CNN.

Speaker 3 Stand by. Be right back.
More with Walter after this. Did you know that up until the 1990s, all chips and fries were cooked in beef tallow?

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Speaker 4 Welcome back to Listen to Your Heart. I'm Jerry.
And I'm Jerry's Heart. Today's topic, Repatha Evelokimap.
Heart, why'd you pick this one?

Speaker 4 Well, Jerry, for people who have had a heart attack, like us, diet and exercise might not be enough to lower the risk of another one. Okay.

Speaker 4 To help know if we're at risk, we should be getting our LDLC, our bad cholesterol, checked. and talking to our doctor.
I'm listening.

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Speaker 4 Listen to your heart. Ask your doctor about Rapatha.
Learn more at rapatha.com or call 1-844-RAPATHA.

Speaker 4 It's finally here. All right, let's get this party started.
Megan Kelly Live on tour across America. I was like, we have to go.

Speaker 3 And then after what happened to Charlie, I'm like, we definitely have to go.

Speaker 14 The best way to honor Charlie's legacy is to be out here, to be unafraid, to not back down, stand firmly, do not waver on the truth.

Speaker 3 Next stop, White Plains, Jacksonville, Miami, and Atlanta. So go get your tickets right now before they sell out.
MeganKelly.com. Presented by YReFi and SiriusXM.

Speaker 3 Here with me today, Walter Kern. He is editor-at-large for County Highway and co-host of America This Week podcast.
And I want to tell you, Walter will be joining me on the Megan Kelly Live Tour.

Speaker 3 He is with me on one of the most important nights we will have, and that is November 22nd in Glendale, Arizona with Erica Kirk. This is going to be a big night.

Speaker 3 It's going to be the last night of the tour. It's, I think it's almost sold out.
Last I checked.

Speaker 3 I told you this the other day there were like a couple tickets left, but I thought Walter would be the perfect compliment to Erica.

Speaker 3 Just all the right gravitas, sensitivity, intelligence, emotional intelligence. They don't go on together.

Speaker 3 You know, we do one and then we do the other, but I just think on a big, big night, there's no one I'd rather have with me. And so you can check it out now.
Go to megankelly.com. Seven dates to go.

Speaker 3 So go now and check out what's available. Walter, really looking forward to that for many reasons.

Speaker 4 Thank you for having me. I haven't been able to thank you personally.
What an honor. And it's going to be a moving and important evening for us and for the country and for that community.

Speaker 4 So I'm glad to be there.

Speaker 3 Oh, thank you.

Speaker 3 I'm like looking forward to it. And I'm also feeling like that's an important one.

Speaker 3 You know, like I, I got got to make sure I do a good job that I always worry about doing a good job, but that one I really can't screw up, so I won't.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 I teased it at the beginning, but as Stephen L. Miller on X put it, I'm afraid we've disappointed the Obamas again.

Speaker 3 Once again, we haven't lived up to their high standards, and we're essentially being called racist.

Speaker 3 Here's Michelle Obama, who's promoting a new book on her special fashion, and sat down with People magazine and said the following in SOT 26.

Speaker 15 Here, as women of color, that the way our hair naturally grows out of our head

Speaker 15 is beautiful, but if we struggle to make it look like the standard, that means we are spending thousands of hours and lots of money straightening out what is naturally curly hair, right?

Speaker 15 And that takes time out of your life. Um, it costs money, um,

Speaker 4 okay.

Speaker 3 So, what she's saying is she's bitter because society's standards, in her view, don't allow black women to just walk around with their natural hair. That is bullshit.

Speaker 3 Black women can walk around with whatever hair they want.

Speaker 3 Only in Michelle Obama's warped mind do white people not like them unless their hair looks like white hair. And here's the other thing.

Speaker 3 The nerve, the nerve of this woman to pretend that black women are the only women who have to spend a bunch of time getting their natural hair to, quote, conform to these alleged society standards.

Speaker 4 Because

Speaker 3 virtually every woman I know, every woman spends a shit ton of time on her hair and wants it to look better than God made it. It's not a black thing.

Speaker 3 It's a human thing and it's especially a woman thing. But she's always reducing everything to race.

Speaker 4 My hair naturally should be coming down to my shoulders. I should have a mustache and a beard.
Why should I have to shave that off and cut it? I mean, what oppressor is forcing that on me?

Speaker 4 It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be gray either.
I should have to color it. I've defied conventional standards by not doing so.

Speaker 4 And also thousands of dollars on your hair. Well, how does she know? I bet she spends tens of thousands, frankly.
I want to see her budget. And why doesn't she let her hair grow out naturally?

Speaker 4 It doesn't appear.

Speaker 3 It is.

Speaker 3 She's talking about when she's first lady and how, you remember this? She said this at the time. Okay, I have my team pull this.
This is Michelle Obama

Speaker 3 in 2022 explaining why she didn't wear braids when she was first lady. Watch

Speaker 15 as black women, we deal with it. The whole thing about do you show up with your natural hair? You know,

Speaker 15 braids, y'all.

Speaker 6 You know, but you know, as first lady, I did not wear braids.

Speaker 4 Being

Speaker 3 the first black. Yeah, yeah, I can't.
I just, we gotta ease up on the people.

Speaker 4 You know, just like, because I thought about it, I was like, it would be

Speaker 3 They're not ready. We couldn't handle it.

Speaker 4 Actually, we would have accepted it.

Speaker 3 You know what? We would have fine.

Speaker 4 No one.

Speaker 3 I'm not as assassinated by her as she thinks we are.

Speaker 4 No one in America has their natural hair except for Dog the Bounty Hunter. He has his natural hair.

Speaker 4 The rest of us don't.

Speaker 3 You definitely speak for me. I do not have my natural hair either.
And it takes some effort to look like this. Name that movie.

Speaker 3 So this, like, what who is she kidding herself? That it's just a black thing.

Speaker 4 Okay,

Speaker 3 if I went out there with my natural hair, I would look like a toddler, which is why I don't.

Speaker 3 Like, but everything for her has to be, she's oppressed, she has it harder than we do. I had to pay for my daughter's tickets on my own airplane that we didn't even know she got as first lady.

Speaker 3 Did not even realize the first lady has her own airplane, but she told us that. And here's the one I think this is actually the one that Stephen L.
Miller was laughing about. about.
Here's,

Speaker 3 okay, hold on a second. Here, listen to this.
How they,

Speaker 3 they didn't get the grace that other first families do when they took over as first family, Walter. Give you one guess why.
Watch this, SAT 20.

Speaker 15 You said we were all too aware that as a first black couple, we couldn't afford any missteps.

Speaker 15 And you also say, as a black woman, I was under a particularly white, hot glare.

Speaker 3 Did you feel that?

Speaker 15 Shut up. For sure.
You can't afford to get anything wrong because you didn't get the, at least until the country came to know us.

Speaker 15 We didn't get the grace that I think some other families have gotten. Now, don't get me wrong, every First Lady faces the kind of scrutiny.

Speaker 15 Every woman in the public eye faces a certain level of scrutiny because of her physical appearance.

Speaker 15 I mean, we live in a culture, sadly, where, you know, if somebody wants to go after a woman, the first thing they do is go after our looks, our size, our physical being as a way to, you know, make us feel small, to keep us in place.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 She's still complaining about the White House? It's exactly the opposite of what she said. She got more grace.

Speaker 4 She could have done almost anything. And does she not forget she had just been elected by a majority? We'd just shown that we approved of her.
We did know her. We elected her.

Speaker 4 America had put her in the White House.

Speaker 4 The same America that wasn't going to allow her any grace, what they put her in the White House is a joke to trip her up. This is ridiculous.
None of it happened. What is she talking about?

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, everything is a grievance with this woman. And the nerve to be like, oh, we didn't get as much grace.
They were on every magazine cover. They were treated like Camelot reincarnate.

Speaker 3 Everybody celebrated them. Left, the right-wing media, even the right-wing media gave them like a nod, a pass.
They're like, okay, the first black president, first black first lady.

Speaker 3 They were nice about it. They didn't like his policies, but they were nice to them.
They were universally celebrated. And now she went, oh,

Speaker 3 we weren't given the grace of the whites. That's basically what she's saying.

Speaker 4 The grace? What is she talking about?

Speaker 4 In other words, she acts like she was persecuted after becoming first lady of the United States. That is the greatest honor so far short of female president that can go to a woman and to her husband.

Speaker 4 And America did that. And that was an act of persecution.
Even electing you president won't get you off our case. What? What do we have to do to get you off our case?

Speaker 3 No, No, she's still pissed about her imaginary hair rules. She mentioned it again

Speaker 3 on,

Speaker 3 let me see.

Speaker 3 Is it SOT 21, you guys? The new one? Yeah, I'm trying to find it. Yeah, it's SAT 21.
Here she is again. More on the hair.
This is with Robin Roberts.

Speaker 15 That was intentional.

Speaker 3 But it was like...

Speaker 15 Having me, the former first lady, a black woman, show up in the world in her her natural hair.

Speaker 15 Even if I didn't do it for those eight years, I understood the importance of doing it at some point and signaling a message to young girls and to professionals out there.

Speaker 15 Stay out of our hair. You know, we're just trying to get to work and do it fast and efficiently.
Don't tell a black woman how to wear her hair. How I wear my hair should be my choice.

Speaker 15 And it shouldn't be illegal. It shouldn't be something that can't be done if you're part of the military.

Speaker 4 Illegal?

Speaker 4 Megan, they're both sitting there with straightened hair. What is going on? Are they trying to drive us crazy?

Speaker 3 Yes, it shouldn't be illegal. And what, oh, so it's a black woman who you can't tell how to wear her hair.
Can you tell the white women? How about the Asians? The Indian women. How about Indian women?

Speaker 3 They have very thick hair. A lot of times it's curly.
It gets unruly. I'm sure they have to do the irons.
Just like you, Michelle, just like white women do too.

Speaker 3 By the way, I've burned my hair to the high heavens with those irons. Like, who is she fucking kidding? Everything, everything is about poor boo fucking who Michelle Obama, and

Speaker 3 especially when you get around the topic of race. It's nonstop.

Speaker 4 Megan, you know why I think they're doing this? Because they're trying to convince young people that something is true that the young people don't realize has always been true.

Speaker 4 Okay, in other words, I have a store nearby me that says, we accept all people. We accept people of all colors and so on.
And it's a big sign in the front of the store.

Speaker 4 And I want to tell young people, you know, even before stores had those signs, they still accepted all people. They're making it seem like there was some past that was terrible.
Well, you know what?

Speaker 4 They're trying to convince young people now that there was some persecution of her and her husband that never happened. It didn't happen.

Speaker 4 If you're starting to vote now and you don't remember what it was like in 2008, that was a long time ago now.

Speaker 4 You can have this revisionist history that they face persecution. And I think they're actually trying to convince you.

Speaker 3 You are so onto something.

Speaker 4 You're so on to it.

Speaker 3 Because here's more from the People Magazine article right up that alley. Listen to SOP 25.

Speaker 7 The othering that took place of you while you were in the office,

Speaker 16 when that did get through to you,

Speaker 7 how did you cope? How did you manage?

Speaker 15 I mean, I took it for what it was. It was pure hypocrisy.
You know, I mean, it would just straight up kind of what do you not look at history?

Speaker 15 You know, I could pull up pictures of Jackie O in a second and see this fashion icon in sleeveless dresses as first lady. At a point you're like, oh, this is

Speaker 15 politics. This is, you know, if you can't beat them, make everybody scared of them.

Speaker 4 How often were we called unpresidential?

Speaker 15 How many ways were we were,

Speaker 15 were our opponents trying to make us, make the country feel that we were not

Speaker 15 suitable for this job,

Speaker 15 even when we had it?

Speaker 4 This never happened.

Speaker 3 And yet it does happen to Donald Trump and Melania Trump all the time.

Speaker 4 Of course, it does. He's the one who's called unpresidential.

Speaker 4 They're trying to assume all the persecution that's ever happened to other people besides them because they are one of the most golden couples in American history.

Speaker 4 They made movies about their courtship. Has there been a movie yet about when Donald met Melania?

Speaker 4 Well, I was once staying at the Bowery Hotel in New York City, and a bunch of people were filming a movie out front. I said, What's this movie about?

Speaker 4 And they said, This is about when Michelle and Barack first met and first dated.

Speaker 4 Nobody got, did George Bush get that with the Barbara Bush dating period? No one's had that treatment.

Speaker 4 These are some of the most privileged, pampered, wealthy Martha's Vineyard residents, plus their other houses' residents in America. And they're acting like they had to cross a Ku Klux Klan, you know,

Speaker 4 line of hooded cross burners to get into the White House. We elected them.

Speaker 3 It's still like to this day, it's like it's incredible.

Speaker 3 And to have the nerve of Barack Obama to be out there on the campaign trail in New Jersey and Virginia saying, oh, the Republicans, they're obsessed with DEI.

Speaker 3 They think DEI is responsible for everything. You know, why are they so focused on DEI and dividing people? You, you, sir, and your wife are the ones who are focused on DEI and dividing people.

Speaker 3 You see everything through a racial prism. Everything.
It's ridiculous. I got news for you, Michelle Obama.
White women have to pat the weave too. It is not just a black thing anymore.

Speaker 4 So there. Okay.

Speaker 3 Let's keep going because while we're on the subject of women in the news who are famous and lie, I just have to show this. Did you watch the World Series the other night?

Speaker 4 No, unfortunately, I was giving a speech, so I couldn't see it. I haven't read it.

Speaker 3 Well, I don't watch sports. I don't know anything about sports.
I don't watch sports.

Speaker 3 I'm an ignoramus when it comes to sports, but it was game seven. So my

Speaker 3 sons headed on. And it kept going and going and going.
It was going so late, but I kept saying, I'm going to bed now. No, next inning,

Speaker 3 bottom of the ninth, I'm going. No, I stayed up for the whole thing.

Speaker 3 And it turned out the LA Dodgers won, which I was very happy to see because why would I be rooting for the Canadians in a match against Americans? I was rooting for the Americans.

Speaker 3 And I was very happy they won. And I thought it was really crazy.
Like the last couple of innings were great where they had

Speaker 3 the catcher. First, that was the Rojas on the Dodgers who hit a home run to tie it up 4-4.
And they'd been down 3-0, the Dodgers had. They inched their way back.
Rojas ties it up. Now it's 4-4.

Speaker 3 And then the catcher hits a homer in the 10th inning to put the Dodgers up 5-4. And then they played great defense in the bottom of the 10th to win the thing.
It was great.

Speaker 3 It was truly like out of a movie. It was thrilling, just as even a non-sports fan.
And

Speaker 3 one thing I didn't try to do, though, was try to pretend that this was my team, that it was,

Speaker 3 you know, a moment that brought me to my feet cheering with tears, because I'm a normal person who doesn't try to do that when I'm not like an avowed sports fan, right?

Speaker 3 You know who else is in my same camp? Megan Marco, who is not a big tweeter or promoter or anything as far as I can tell about sports at all, though she is originally from someplace out in California.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 4 she,

Speaker 3 I mean, I just weirdly, I was sitting there in my family room, Walter. By this point, it was just me and my oldest child,

Speaker 3 who's 16, because it was late. It was like midnight when they won.
Weirdly, I did not have a camera on us.

Speaker 3 I wasn't ready to film us

Speaker 3 on the winning moment. My eyes, as my son's eyes, were focused on the television because that was what was interesting.

Speaker 3 But weirdly, Megan Markle just happened to have herself on camera along with Prince Harry at the moment and shared this little gem with us.

Speaker 3 Oh my God,

Speaker 3 poor Harry.

Speaker 4 Poor Harry.

Speaker 4 Is that their security camera that they turned on? It didn't look like anybody was actually filming it. That looked like automatic coverage.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So what they did was go back and check their security camera for a bit of themselves.
And then posted it.

Speaker 3 That whole reaction was as authentic as those Lauren Sanchez boobs we talked about earlier.

Speaker 4 Whoa.

Speaker 4 Oh, you know, I would have liked to see the Dodgers lose just to see what they would have, you know, done. It would have been crying, weeping, pulling their hair out.

Speaker 3 It would have been the queen. Remember, she cried the single tear at the Queen's funeral, who she helped kill, in my view.

Speaker 4 At least the guy didn't pretend to be an American. He's been doing a lot of pretending to be an American or being a British person who has something to say.
Was that him sitting in the chair?

Speaker 3 Was that him? He did go to the game wearing an L.A. Dodgers hat.
So, I mean,

Speaker 3 I don't give him a full pass because he's still pretending. But he looked like a hostage there.

Speaker 3 I mean, you really kind of wanted to have King Charles send in some, the equivalent of the Navy SEALs into Montecito to go rescue the prince.

Speaker 4 Well, Megan, he didn't know that that was going to be released worldwide.

Speaker 4 He thought he was in his own home, just, you know, with his kooky wife and her friend, and he didn't have any reason to behave. He must be so pissed right now.
Wait, you released that?

Speaker 4 I had a chance to get up and hug you and go, wow, yeah,

Speaker 4 but I didn't know we're going to use our home security footage as

Speaker 4 tell me next time.

Speaker 3 She never misses an opportunity to make it about herself. Like truly, even I was happy for the Dodgers.

Speaker 3 Like I said, I would never think what I should do is make this about me and myself, as opposed to the Dodgers, you numskull.

Speaker 3 But she's, I mean, she parachuted into Uvalde, where a bunch of children were murdered and made sure she got caught by those cameras.

Speaker 3 Then, just a couple weeks ago, caught going past the spot where Princess Diana was so brutally killed in that terrible car crash with her bare feet swinging in the car without a care in the world and the music playing.

Speaker 3 Link Lauren calls her a disaster tourist, and she is. And now she peppers it here with, see, there I am.
It's all about me and my joy because I swear I'm authentic. I'm a Californian.

Speaker 3 I love the Dodgers just like normal people, even though I'm firing or at least losing my 10th publicist right now, literally days earlier in the news, because I bully everyone.

Speaker 4 Her husband must, if he is not angry as hell right now, and that he even allowed that to come out is actually troubling because it didn't make him look particularly good, except that he wasn't part of the hysteria.

Speaker 4 But to allow your home security footage with you in it to be released publicly by your wife so that she can get a few points as a Dodgers fan, dude, I hate to use the word cucked.

Speaker 4 I never use the word cucked, but that's cucked.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah, well, I think we've known that about Harry for quite some time.

Speaker 3 I got to keep going because I don't want to waste a second of your time.

Speaker 3 Last week, we played a soundbite of Kamala Harris sitting down with ABC, but not this ABC, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, and a journalist there named Sarah Ferguson.

Speaker 3 And it was great because Sarah Ferguson would not allow Kamala to dodge.

Speaker 3 She asked the question like, don't you think it was Joe Biden's frailties and like his inability to be honest about them that really cost you? in your abbreviated race?

Speaker 3 Like, don't you think that undermined you?

Speaker 3 And Kamala dodged, tried to blame it on Trump and the and Sarah was like that's a world pivot dodge but the question was about Joe Biden Kamala looked confused she looked kind of angry and it didn't go well for Kamala well after the fact

Speaker 3 the that ABC released new tape of what happened when the interview ended and what you're about to hear is a Kamala Harris staffer ending it. Listen here, watch Saad 8.

Speaker 16 I want to come back to the book and the purpose of the book. So, this is the last question.

Speaker 3 You've got great time.

Speaker 4 We've got to go. Sorry.

Speaker 4 Yep.

Speaker 16 Well, that's almost a first, not an absolute first, but to have a member of staff of the former Vice President of the United States actually speak up during the interview to say that we were going too long.

Speaker 16 I didn't expect that.

Speaker 16 But coming back to the interview itself, it seems to me at its very heart there is a reluctance on the part of Kamala Harris to actually spell out and talk about the issues that Joe Biden had as president.

Speaker 3 Can you imagine wanting to be leader of the free world and letting your staff jump in to save you during a tough interview?

Speaker 4 Well, I mean, it makes you wonder who the leader of the free world is, if it's really the president of the United States anymore. We know that with Joe Biden that it wasn't.

Speaker 4 You know, we know that some distant ghost was directing that autopen.

Speaker 4 I guess by the time she came along, it wasn't embarrassing because the guy that she'd worked for had been having his staff wheel him in and out of the room.

Speaker 4 I mean, that was the norm by the time Kamala came along. And

Speaker 4 she looked.

Speaker 4 She looked like a dog that was confused because it was getting conflicting orders. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 Do I go on the newspaper or do I go on the rug? You know,

Speaker 4 because

Speaker 4 she didn't even have an answer. She wasn't mad at the staff member.
She looked completely buffaloed. I feel sorry for her.
Who wrote her book, by the way? Did she really write it?

Speaker 4 I mean, she's on a book tour in which

Speaker 4 her whole reason that she was there was to answer that question, basically. Yes.
And

Speaker 4 that kind of question. She wrote a book.
It's not like they, you know, parachuted in with some adversarial, you know, interview. She's out there and she can't even judge, you know, how to respond.

Speaker 4 She has to have somebody else do it. That is proof positive that we didn't just dodge a bullet, we dodged a nuclear bomb.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And you know what's so amazing, Walter, is like,

Speaker 3 of course, what she should have done, Kamala, was to say, I'll decide when it's over. Finish your question, Sarah.
We're good.

Speaker 3 You know, like she doesn't, she doesn't have the presence or the confidence to do that. And more than that, she was grateful for the lifeline.
She was like, oh, God.

Speaker 3 I guess I'll show, let me just show the earlier exchange. This is why she was grateful for the lifeline.
Here's what had happened just a bit earlier in SOT 9.

Speaker 16 Wasn't Joe Biden meant to put it on him? Wasn't his refusal to recognize his own frailties the reason that you faced a nearly impossible task?

Speaker 17 I ran against Donald Trump for president and Donald Trump ran on

Speaker 17 a platform that was in large part, I believe, misrepresenting his intentions to the American people.

Speaker 17 I do believe that there are a fair number of people that voted for Donald Trump who believed him when he told them that his first priority on day one is going to be to bring down prices.

Speaker 17 And he didn't. And you combine that misrepresentation of intention

Speaker 17 with also what was at play in terms of massive amounts of mis and disinformation. Now, forgive me,

Speaker 17 calendar in terms of the clock.

Speaker 16 I want to interrupt you because that is a world-class pivot, but it is not the question that I asked you, which is about Joe Biden's failure to recognize his own frailties and what that did to you.

Speaker 16 The question is about Joe Biden. Are you still reluctant to criticize the former president?

Speaker 17 In what regard, please?

Speaker 16 Well, just in terms of that question.

Speaker 3 In regard I just said.

Speaker 17 Which exactly would you like to ask?

Speaker 17 I asked it twice, if you don't mind.

Speaker 3 I already did that. It's like you could see her flailing.
And so doesn't that just set up perfectly what we just saw? She was afraid, Walter.

Speaker 3 There were two massive frauds committed on us last this time last year. The Joe Biden is mentally acute.
fraud and the fraud that this woman could do the job.

Speaker 4 And that's why the aid stepped in, because she was in a trap right there. Because

Speaker 4 the premise of the question was that she knew

Speaker 4 he was frail. And she's never really said that.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 To say, yeah, that was a problem for me, would have been to admit the premise that he was in terrible shape. And she's never done that.
And she can't do it.

Speaker 4 And you know what's scary about that whole interview? She thinks she can still run for office. She's still trying to save her reputation, obviously, for later.

Speaker 4 She thinks that she has a future in politics. That's why they're handling her that way.

Speaker 3 We'll see. I hope she's right.
I really do. I hope she's right.
She has a future in politics and she's going to go for it.

Speaker 3 Godspeed. Godspeed.
Walter Kern, always a pleasure, my friend. See you soon.

Speaker 4 We'll see you soon.

Speaker 3 Okay, up next, we're going to take a deep dive into lawfare, specifically involving Letitia James. I've been wanting to do this segment for a while.
I'll explain why in a second. We'll be right back.

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Tis the season. This is Help Staying Healthy Through the Holidays.
Walgreens.

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Speaker 3 As we've been telling you, on October 9th, the Department of Justice indicted New York State's Democrat Attorney General Letitia James on one count of bank fraud and one count of false statements to a financial institution.

Speaker 3 Ms.

Speaker 3 James is accused of illegally obtaining favorable terms for a mortgage in Norfolk, Virginia, that she described in her application as a second residence, a second home, when the Fed say she actually used it as a rental investment property.

Speaker 3 Left-leaning outlets have published article after article after article, describing the case as incredibly weak. Some examples.

Speaker 3 ABC News on October 23rd, quote: Evidence appears to undercut claims against Letitia James. Prosecutors found.
Sources. Political, October 29th.

Speaker 3 Three words in Letitia James's mortgage contract could doom the fraud case against her. And on it goes.

Speaker 3 Here's what I want to tell you.

Speaker 3 I said to my team, let's find out if there is anyone, anyone supporting this indictment, anyone defending it. I'm a lawyer.
I like to see both sides. I couldn't find a single one.
I'll show you.

Speaker 3 I'm going to put on the board the search. results that I got, both when I did an independent Google search and I went to ChatGPT.
I looked and looked and looked.

Speaker 4 I couldn't find anything.

Speaker 3 And I said to my team, this is ridiculous. So I asked one of my top producers, former lawyer, former practicing lawyer, current lawyer still, we all are,

Speaker 3 see if you can find one. And he came up with one guy.
And the reason we found this one guy is because he was being dumped on by the non-lawyers over at lawfair.com.

Speaker 3 They decided this one man who wrote an attempt to take an honest look at this. Well, he's a fraudster.
He's a convicted fraudster. So So we can't listen to him.

Speaker 3 Okay, now he's the one guy who's actually looking into this, saying the mainstream media has it all wrong and that Tish James is in big trouble. And his name is

Speaker 3 Sam Antar. His site is whitecollarfraud.com.
And Mr. Antar has quite an interesting background.
He's now a financial fraud investigator.

Speaker 3 But previously, he helped mastermind one of the largest security frauds of the 1980s when he was CFO of Crazy Eddie Inc. You remember the Crazy Eddie commercials? Crazy Eddie.

Speaker 3 Oh, he was the CFO and he was defrauding investors out of over $500 million, which he admits. As he writes on his website, yes, I'm a convicted felon.
That's why I know fraud when I see it.

Speaker 3 Sam joins me now. Sam, hi, thanks for being here.
This is very interesting. I thought your analysis was very probative and helped me start asking the right questions.

Speaker 3 And as you point out in your piece online, there's a reason you knew where to look and how to determine for yourself whether there might be fire where this smoke is here.

Speaker 3 So, just walk us through how this came to you in your first analysis.

Speaker 8 All right, first of all, I was looking into a lot of politicians in New York City, and I happened upon Letitia James.

Speaker 8 And one of the things I was looking at were her financial records that she had given to New York State.

Speaker 8 And on her financial records in 2020, she purchases his home in Virginia on Peroni Avenue, 3121 Perroni Avenue. Then all of a sudden

Speaker 8 it showed no mortgage in 2020, no mortgage in 2021, and no mortgage in 2022.

Speaker 8 All of a sudden, in 2023, two mortgages pop up on that property, and the value of those mortgages exceeded the value that she stated

Speaker 8 on her financial disclosures. And as a forensic accountant, you take their word and you use it against them.
So

Speaker 8 it said $400,000 approximately worth of mortgages and it said $150,000 value. Her declarations, her signature, not me, her.
So what's the first red flag?

Speaker 8 Wow, two mortgages exceeding the value of the property by more than double. So as a result, I ordered

Speaker 8 a title report. And what I found in the title report surprised me.
The title report included a mortgage from when she purchased the property in 2020. It's called the OVM mortgage.

Speaker 8 And that mortgage was never disclosed in her financial disclosures to New York State.

Speaker 8 The two mortgages that were disclosed in her financial disclosures to New York State, they weren't on the property report. So I call up the county clerk's office.
They're invisible.

Speaker 8 I call them phantom mortgages or unrecorded mortgages. So you have two things.
You have two unrecorded mortgages exceeding the value of the property by more than double. And you have one mortgage that

Speaker 8 was never disclosed when she purchased the property.

Speaker 8 And the mortgage, all mortgages have to be disclosed. So what's going on here? So then I read the mortgage contract.
You know, it's a progression.

Speaker 8 And I look at the mortgage contract and she purchases it as a second home.

Speaker 4 So for the Peroni property in Norfolk, Virginia.

Speaker 8 Yeah, in norfolk west norfolk virginia so the first thing i do is i look at it says second home fine i'm gonna look at the disclosure of the property she says it's an investment property an investment property is

Speaker 3 just to be clear what where does she say where does she say it's an investment property

Speaker 8 every public official in new york state has to file a financial disclosure listing their assets, their liabilities, their income, and so on.

Speaker 8 So on her financial disclosure, when she lists this property, she lists it as an investment property. She says in the first year that her income from the property was $1,000 to $5,000.

Speaker 8 But on the mortgage itself, it said it was a second home.

Speaker 3 Those two things cannot be the same thing, a second home.

Speaker 8 Because if you're buying it as a second home, it's a different underwriting standard than if you are buying it as an investment property.

Speaker 8 The liability insurance is different, the property insurance is different, and also

Speaker 8 the banks will look at it differently and underwrite it differently and require a higher down payment or

Speaker 8 a higher interest rate.

Speaker 3 If it's an investment property, if it's a second home, they'll give you a little bit better deal because they think you're going to live in it, right?

Speaker 3 Like you get the best deal on your primary home, you get the next best deal on your secondary home, and you get probably the worst deal on an investment home because that's the one you're least likely to pay if you fall on hard times.

Speaker 8 And none of this, none of this, by the way, is in the media coverage.

Speaker 4 It's all ignored.

Speaker 8 It's kind of like, you know, they don't want to know the truth. This is in the media coverage.
Everything that I do in my blog is in black and white. Okay.
I've linked to every single document.

Speaker 8 It's all public domain. If I screw up, it's only because Letitia James screwed up.
In other words, I rely exclusively on what she did and what she represented.

Speaker 8 So you have red flag

Speaker 4 number one.

Speaker 8 Next red flag is the media coverage of the indictment. Okay.

Speaker 8 All of a sudden, they're saying it's a weak case. It's never been brought before.
So I'm going to bring you two specific cases. One is a Supreme Court case called the United States versus Wells.

Speaker 8 And one of the things they said was that, you know,

Speaker 8 it doesn't involve a lot of money. the bank didn't rely on it whatever the united states versus wells specifically states okay

Speaker 8 that reliance by the bank on a false declaration is irrelevant

Speaker 8 damage to the bank on a false declaration is irrelevant the only thing that's relevant is the false declaration.

Speaker 8 And the United States in the United States versus Muhammad brought a very similar case on that. But they say there was never a case brought.

Speaker 8 So

Speaker 8 that's even more media misinformation. The other generalized media.

Speaker 3 By the way, by the way, not for nothing, Sam, but that's the exact argument she was making against Donald Trump a few months ago in the case she brought against him for alleged fraud against a bank who wasn't complaining.

Speaker 3 She's very familiar with that legal principle.

Speaker 8 No offense to Donald Trump. I don't even like him, and I don't really care about that case.
I am a forensic accountant focusing on this case. So to me, it's totally irrelevant.

Speaker 8 I don't like, I hate when these pundits bring up these other stuff and they say that.

Speaker 8 No, this is this case. The evidence is there.
The documents were signed by her. Now,

Speaker 8 they miss a lot of things that are in the indictment, okay? And they probably purposely does. For instance, nobody mentions paragraph nine of the indictment, that is the insurance clause.

Speaker 8 She said that

Speaker 8 she was going to occupy the property. Well, guess what? There's a Schedule E on paragraph 10 of the indictment that says that she took no personal days

Speaker 8 on the property.

Speaker 4 Wait, hold the roll.

Speaker 3 Stand by. I want to walk the audience through this because the language is...
It's right there, black and white, and

Speaker 3 we can read it. What exactly she promised

Speaker 3 in the second home rider clause that you looked up, that this is what she promised in getting the mortgage. Borrower will occupy and use the property as her second home.

Speaker 3 Okay, so she's promising, I will occupy it and I will use it as my second home. And I will also maintain exclusive control over the occupancy of the property, including short-term rentals.

Speaker 3 Now, there's another important, and all of that's going to become relevant. She promised to occupy it.
She promised to use it. She promised to maintain exclusive control over it.

Speaker 3 And her side is capitalizing on the including short-term rentals, which we'll get to in a minute. But

Speaker 3 there's another piece of the same paragraph, which you've been calling attention to, where she says, I also promise to keep the property available primarily as a residence for my personal use and enjoyment for at least one year.

Speaker 3 These are all legal terms of art. My personal use and enjoyment.
Personal use and enjoyment has meaning in the law, and we're going to get to what that means. Here's a hint.

Speaker 3 It does not mean you never ever go and you just let your weird cousin or third grandniece use it. Go ahead.
You take it now, Sam.

Speaker 8 And it's contradicted, okay, by her own disclosures to the Internal Revenue Service.

Speaker 4 Okay, but wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 3 But I'm trying to keep it super simple so everybody can follow because you have very sophisticated analysis. Can we start with the promise that she will occupy and use the property as her second home?

Speaker 3 Did she live up to that?

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 8 And what they're trying to say, well, it did allow short-term rentals. Well, it wasn't a short-term rental, it was

Speaker 8 fully occupied every day by a family member. She can't tell the IRS one thing and tell the bank another thing.
That's illegal. That's perjury.
That is fraud.

Speaker 4 Now,

Speaker 8 even the

Speaker 8 FA, the

Speaker 8 Fannie Mae and Freddie Matt basically says when you're talking about primarily, it has to be more than

Speaker 8 183 days or more.

Speaker 3 And now, just to be clear, you're jumping down to that second part of the paragraph that I read, where she promised to keep the property available primarily as a residence for my personal use and enjoyment for at least one year.

Speaker 3 So now we're looking into, well, what does that mean?

Speaker 3 Did she do that? Did she keep it available for her personal use and enjoyment for at least one year? Go ahead.

Speaker 8 Well, if she did, then she committed income tax evasion. She took depreciation deductions that she wasn't supposed to take.
She took all kinds of

Speaker 8 expenses that she wasn't supposed to declare on a tax return. So you choose, you want to be a tax evader or you want to be a mortgage fraudster.

Speaker 3 And the reason she was able to take those tax deductions was because to the IRS, she listed it as an investment property and she deducted expenses that she incurred as a result of the property.

Speaker 3 And she disclosed some of those payments she got from the family, like for utilities and so on, to the IRS. So you're saying none of that supports her

Speaker 3 using it primarily as a residence for her personal use and enjoyment for at least one year.

Speaker 8 Yes. So to summarize, her schedule lead that she files with the IRS says zero personal days.
Okay.

Speaker 8 She says on her mortgage application and on her mortgage that she's going to be the primary resident. Both cannot be true.

Speaker 8 Now, there's another dimension of income tax because there's going to be superseding indictments. What your audience doesn't understand, she didn't commit mortgage fraud on one property.

Speaker 8 She committed it on three properties over a period of 42 years.

Speaker 8 There's a pattern here, and that pattern is admissible, even if they don't bring the other two cases, which I believe they will.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 8 Now, on Schedule Schedule E,

Speaker 8 okay, if you are renting it to a relative, which she says she did, right?

Speaker 8 And she's claiming now that the relative was paying under fair market value, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah, then

Speaker 3 $70,000 over a year is definitely not

Speaker 3 fair value in Norfolk. Right.

Speaker 8 It's definitely not fair value in Norfolk. Then she's got another problem.

Speaker 8 Because if you're renting it to a relative under market value, the difference between the real market value and the amount that you're receiving is

Speaker 8 taxable income to you.

Speaker 8 There's no way out for her. And that's what people don't understand.

Speaker 3 Wait, it's not taxable income to Tish. Wouldn't it be taxable income to the family member staying inside that? No, no, no.

Speaker 8 No, it would be.

Speaker 8 Yes, it would be taxable income to the taxable income to the family members. But here's the other thing.

Speaker 8 If she has been renting it below fair market value on Schedule E, right?

Speaker 8 She supposed to say no, she's supposed to say all of those no personal days are personal days. And if they are personal days, she did, she, she also falsified the tax return if that's the case.

Speaker 8 In other words, I can't.

Speaker 3 I get it. No, no, hold on.
Let me let me try to say,

Speaker 8 but I can tell you, every answer she gives causes another problem.

Speaker 3 Okay, if she's counting the relatives staying in the Norfolk home as, quote, personal days, then she has misstated the facts to the IRS, to whom she represented there were no personal days.

Speaker 3 If she's not counting, if she's saying that there were no personal days via the family members, that those did not count as personal days, and that's why her IRS disclosures said no personal days, then she's violated the terms of the mortgage, where she promised she would keep the property available primarily as a residence for borrowers' personal use and enjoyment for at least one year.

Speaker 3 And I actually looked it up myself, Sam. And here's what I found.

Speaker 3 This is according to case law, interpreting the Fannie and the Freddie mortgage application that we just went through.

Speaker 3 A borrower cannot spend zero time at the property if the mortgage is for a primary or secondary residence, if the mortgage application has that term for borrower's personal use and enjoyment language.

Speaker 3 So if as the Fannie and the Freddie mortgage requires, that you promise you'll use it for your own personal use and enjoyment for at least one year primarily, that you may not spend zero time there because this language has been found to imply a requirement for occupancy a requirement the borrower must occupy the property for more than half of the calendar year if it is a second home meaning they can't even leave it for extended periods so if that is the law She's toast because even she's not alleging she was in this property for more than half a year, which means she did not live up to the mortgage terms.

Speaker 8 No, she did not. And then you have the insurance fraud.
Now, everybody's making fun of Lindsay Halligan. They call her the MAGA beauty queen.
She's an insurance lawyer. Well, guess what?

Speaker 8 There's also insurance fraud because she told the insurance company that she was going to occupy the property. So pick your fraud.

Speaker 8 Insurance fraud, income tax evasion, whatever you want, mortgage fraud, whatever you want. And then they're acting like, oh, it's a clerical clerical error.
Well, guess what?

Speaker 8 On a Brooklyn property, which is not part of the indictment, which I think will be as superseding indictments come out, she lied on 10 mortgages over 20 years.

Speaker 8 She said that the property was four units versus the actual certificate of occupancy that says five units. Now, why is that a big difference?

Speaker 8 Because a five-unit property is considered commercial for underwriting and insurance standards, whereas four or less, you get a non-commercial policy. And commercial policies are much more expensive.

Speaker 8 And also commercial mortgages are much more expensive. And you have another property where she claimed that a few days before the Trump trial, that that was going to be her primary residence.

Speaker 8 I mean, this is not one isolated instance where Sam Antar says, gotcha. This is a pattern of fraudulent behavior.
And even if they don't indict under the federal rules of discovery, and

Speaker 8 I'm not a lawyer like you are, but under the federal rules, you can introduce that evidence.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you can introduce pattern evidence.

Speaker 3 You can introduce pattern evidence. Yes, you can.
That's how they got Harvey Weinstein in his criminal case. This would be a different way of doing it.

Speaker 3 I mean, they could potentially, if they can convince a Brooklyn, the Eastern District of New York prosecutor to do it, they could have that person join.

Speaker 3 in this prosecution and say, she did it too in Brooklyn, Your Honor. I don't know if they'd go that far or if they'd have a prosecutor willing to do it.
But I do think it's very interesting.

Speaker 3 I mean, here's the bottom line as I see it. She promised through this second home rider that she would occupy and use the property as her second home.

Speaker 3 She certified to the IRS that she had zero days of personal use that first year at all. Now, maybe there's some back door where she says, my family living there qualifies as personal use.
Okay.

Speaker 3 If is that if that maybe that gets her out of the covenant to occupy and use the property, though I really don't know. I'm just giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Speaker 3 There's a second covenant in here where she promised that she would keep the property available, in addition to Occupy and Use,

Speaker 3 available primarily as a residence for her personal use and enjoyment for at least one year.

Speaker 3 So while she was allowed to do rentals per that one clause, you could do for one year, it was supposed to be available primarily as a residence for her personal use and enjoyment.

Speaker 3 And the case law that has interpreted this Fannie and Freddie Ryder has said that means she needs to have been in it for at least half the year, which she wasn't.

Speaker 4 And that first year,

Speaker 4 I don't think she was there at all.

Speaker 8 You know, you know, Megan,

Speaker 8 you're on,

Speaker 8 you have a law degree,

Speaker 8 but you're not really practicing, practicing law.

Speaker 4 All of these punts I did for 10 years.

Speaker 8 They're supposed to be experts and they're practicing law. Why can't they do what you just did?

Speaker 3 Because they hate Trump so much.

Speaker 4 And they, some of them, well, I could do, but the law is the law.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, that's that's my and you know, I it's way more important to me to be honest with my audience than it is for me to run cover for Trump or attack his enemies.

Speaker 3 Way more important to me that I maintain my data. Here's the thing that they're an honest analysis.

Speaker 8 This is a result of Donald Trump's vendetta. I brought the case to the feds.
I found the case. I brought the case to the feds.
Donald Trump doesn't pay me. I'm a Democrat.
I'm not even a Republican.

Speaker 8 Okay.

Speaker 8 I was the one that brought the case. Nobody else.

Speaker 3 I brought it.

Speaker 3 Who did you bring it to, Sam?

Speaker 4 What? Who'd you bring it to?

Speaker 8 Well, look at my history.

Speaker 8 I trained law enforcement for over a 20 30 years after crazy 80s I've done whistleblower cases for major law firms I've helped them prosecute class action lawsuits etc people read my blog and they follow it and sometimes they'll call and ask questions or sometimes they'll have an email and I'll explain further just like when your people contacted me so this is not something that you know

Speaker 8 I pick up the phone, hey, Donald, guess what? I got a fraud for you. I got to letitia James.
That's not what happened. This is part of a process.
This is what I do. I solve puzzles.

Speaker 3 Did you contact anybody, though, in the administration?

Speaker 4 What?

Speaker 4 Did you contact anybody?

Speaker 8 I didn't have any contact with the administration, but I have had contact with law enforcement within the government dealing with this case, as they should have contact with me.

Speaker 3 Well, yeah, I mean, you're an expert witness on this, you know, for reasons we discussed.

Speaker 8 I don't even take expert witnesses. The documents speak for themselves.
Yeah. The documents speak for themselves.

Speaker 3 The problem is it's confusing. It's confusing if you don't understand.

Speaker 8 It's confusing because the media makes it confusing. Okay.

Speaker 8 When you get in front of a jury and you lay it all out, it won't be confusing because you won't have to deal with the spin and the this and the that. That's why we have trials.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, I think the bottom line here is don't believe what the media is telling you. This actually is more complicated a case than it looks.

Speaker 3 It's not some simple open and shut in Tish James's favor, if anything.

Speaker 8 She wasn't allowed to rent it out for more than 182 days, right?

Speaker 8 That's what the mortgage clause says. The mortgage clause says a failure to do that is material.
They claimed it was immaterial. That's something we didn't bring up.

Speaker 8 Her insurance policy contradicts her mortgage. She said she was going to be

Speaker 8 the primary occupant.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 8 The Schedule E on her tax return also contradicts her mortgage.

Speaker 8 So what do you want to do? Take your pick. Which fraud do you want? She's in an inescapable position and she knows it.
So what is she trying to do? She's trying to try it in the press.

Speaker 8 Go ahead and try it. You know, what kind of behavior is it for a district U.S.

Speaker 8 a state attorney general? You have to get through all of us.

Speaker 4 She's not a mob boss.

Speaker 8 She's an officer of the court and she should know better.

Speaker 8 She should conduct herself with class. She's got no class.
And

Speaker 8 that's what I have to say.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 She's, I should, of course, denied the charges. She says she is totally innocent of the charges and that she looks forward to proving that.

Speaker 8 You know, when they came after me, I was totally innocent too.

Speaker 4 Till you were.

Speaker 4 How long did you serve for?

Speaker 8 Oh, I had a very, very rough time. Six months of house arrest.
So no prison jokes.

Speaker 3 Oh, okay. Okay.
Nothing. I won't.
I'll keep it to myself. Well, thank you for writing the piece.
It gave me a lot to chew on, and I really appreciate it, Sam.

Speaker 8 You ever meet me on again? Let me know.

Speaker 3 Thank you very much. I have a feeling we will.
All the best to you.

Speaker 3 So hopefully that was clarifying to you that at a minimum, it's a lot more complicated than the mainstream media wants you to believe.

Speaker 3 This mortgage law and insurance law and tax law is no joke. And even if these terms have different meanings, you know, like I ask myself, does,

Speaker 3 you know, personal use days, does that have a different meaning with the IRS than it does in real estate law? And I actually think it does, does have a different use.

Speaker 3 But I don't see how she gets around the fact that this keep the property available primarily as a residence for your personal use and enjoyment appears to mean, according to the case law interpreting the Fannie and Freddie mortgages, appears to mean that

Speaker 3 the borrower is not allowed to spend zero time there and that the borrower is saying that they will occupy the property for more than half the calendar year if it's a second home.

Speaker 3 And she just didn't do that. I don't even see her claiming that she did that.
At best, she's claiming she spent days down there from time to time. That's not going to do it.

Speaker 3 So, all I'm asking is keep an open mind. Okay, keep an open mind on this, and we'll see how it goes.
If it's just as clear as some others say, then this will get dismissed on the papers.

Speaker 3 And if it's not, we're going to have a trial. Okay, we are back tomorrow live on the Megan Kelly channel.
It's our first day of channel 111 on Series XM being the Megan Kelly channel.

Speaker 3 And we will kick it off with Matt Walsh and VDH. Big one.
See you then.

Speaker 3 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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