Disaffected Young Men, Michelle Obama's Hair Complaints, and Embracing the Right - Charlie Sheen, VDH, and Jack Posobiec at MK Live | Ep. 1199

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Speaker 10 Welcome Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Speaker 10 Hello, beautiful people.

Speaker 10 Oh, it's so good to be with you.

Speaker 9 I love you.

Speaker 10 Oh my gosh, it's so love you guys so much. Thank you for standing out in the rain and the kind of cold for California weather

Speaker 10 to to come and be with me. Sit down, sit down, please enjoy.

Speaker 9 We love you.

Speaker 10 Oh my gosh. Let me tell you something.
Everybody's been asking me like, so how are you feeling on the tour? Like, how's it going? And I keep saying the same thing.

Speaker 10 I'm enjoying it so much more than I even thought I would. Seeing you guys connecting with you here like this, it does feel like church to me, only better.
You know,

Speaker 10 I love my priest, but we've got to work on the homilies a little.

Speaker 10 It's just so uplifting. And you know what? Maybe you guys can feel it.
Watching that video kind of reminds me. It was so much more fun when we were running to be in power, wasn't it?

Speaker 10 Now that Trump's a year into governing and the right is fracturing, it's kind of like,

Speaker 10 I don't feel so good, right? Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 9 Like I...

Speaker 10 I love that Trump is president. I love what he's doing, but we're starting to get like a little divided.
The Republicans always turn on each other, right? Always. You can take it to the bank.

Speaker 10 Someone always does something stupid, and then we're like, what? Why does he just have our team jersey? Anyway, it happens every single time.

Speaker 10 It's almost more fun to be running to get into power than to actually have the power, which will necessarily start dividing people. And I think a lot of us are feeling that right now.

Speaker 10 And there's sort of internal wars going on within the Republican Party on, you know, things like Israel and so on. And it's just, it's like a little stressful.

Speaker 10 But I think we need to remember it's a blessing to have this problem, right

Speaker 9 I mean

Speaker 10 we could be looking at a Kamala Harris president right now

Speaker 10 and think of how depressed we'd be then

Speaker 10 that would not be a fun four years in the opposition kind of thing like Joe Biden was so absurd with his comatose presidency that you kind of laughed a little I mean it was like laugh or cry with her I think we'd just be in full tears all the time So in any event, let's keep that in mind.

Speaker 10 Let's understand. Like, I'm going to be asking Victor Davis Hansen about this tonight.
Love VDH.

Speaker 10 Mark Halperin was sounding the alarm on, like, if we don't get these numbers up for Trump, especially when it comes to his economy and the approval rating on that, it's going to be a bloodbath.

Speaker 10 So, we have time. So, we'll ask VDH, who's one of the most brilliant people I've ever met, exactly how the president should do that.
And the president does listen to VDH.

Speaker 10 We know this because he's made it very clear time and time again. So, maybe we'll make a difference tonight in the fate of our country.

Speaker 10 In a minute, we're going to do some QA, but I just want to start with this, you guys.

Speaker 10 As I think you know,

Speaker 10 we have an amazing lineup. We have Jack Pisobic, quite just a door.

Speaker 10 We have VDH. We have Charlie Sheen.

Speaker 10 What a gentleman. Honestly, he was so wonderful meeting a lot of you guys backstage.

Speaker 10 But as you know, we were supposed to be here tonight with a different Charlie.

Speaker 10 This was the stop that Charlie Kirk was supposed to join me on.

Speaker 10 I'm like getting emotional just thinking about it. It's only been two months since we lost him.
And he wanted to come here.

Speaker 10 We would have taken Charlie anywhere, of course. And he said, I'd love to come to Bakersfield.

Speaker 10 He felt a connection with you guys. He specifically asked for this stop.
We said, of course,

Speaker 10 we'd love to have you.

Speaker 10 And as you know, we wound up booking Erica Kirk, who's going to come on Saturday because she needs to be by her babes. So we're going to interview her in Glendale.

Speaker 10 But I can't help, like every second since we landed in Bakersfield, thinking about Charlie. I know.
Yes, he's here. That's right.

Speaker 10 He's here.

Speaker 10 And Jake Whitman, who's our great producer, he puts together these amazing, like, long montages for us on, like, though, he did the With Love Megan.

Speaker 10 He did our trips to space. He's a very talented producer.
And he put together just a short tribute to Charlie. So let's watch.

Speaker 11 This is not just the flash in the pan movement. We're going to become an institution to give them the power and the confidence to stand up and let their voice be heard.

Speaker 10 You started this when you were 18?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I had plans to go to college and instead I took a gap year and it's been a gap decade and it's been the most amazing journey.

Speaker 12 We as Christians are called to go into the public arena to correct error with truth.

Speaker 13 If someone from the left comes up to the mic, let's treat them with respect. Let's not interrupt or scowl or boo them.
Show the left the respect that we don't get on these college campuses.

Speaker 10 You're making a huge difference, not just in today's voters, but in the next up-and-coming ones. I do feel there's something divine going on.
You were chosen for some reason.

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 4 I'm humble. I'm far more interested in what God wants of me than what I want from God.

Speaker 15 They just called it for Pennsylvania, Charlie. It is a lot of people.

Speaker 9 Fox just called

Speaker 10 this is worth playing the moment that it was announced that Trump won.

Speaker 4 Oh my gosh. I'm getting emotional thinking about it.

Speaker 16 And the media said the turning point could never run a ground game. They weren't experienced.
They didn't know Charlie, right?

Speaker 17 This is the greatest generational realignment since Woodstock. This generation is the most conservative generation that we have seen in well over 50 years.

Speaker 13 What young people, especially, are screaming at is they say, give me a structure that I can live my life by.

Speaker 14 What can I do to save the country?

Speaker 17 You answer that question every single day because you are doing the work to save this beautiful republic.

Speaker 14 You are doing something that is bigger than you.

Speaker 9 If everything

Speaker 4 completely goes away, how do you want to be remembered?

Speaker 4 I want to be remembered for courage for my faith.

Speaker 4 That would be the most important thing. Most important thing is my faith in money.

Speaker 10 God bless you, Charlie. God bless him.

Speaker 10 God bless him.

Speaker 10 And God bless all of you for being here tonight in honor of him and to carry forth what was clearly his mission, which was to say the things, to say them no matter how many people object to them, and ideally to say them to those very people.

Speaker 10 That's going to be all of our mission. There's probably not a lot of people who can't stand the Megan Kelly show here tonight, right?

Speaker 10 This tour is not set up the way the turning point tours were, but we all know people who don't feel as we do about these important issues.

Speaker 10 And it's up to all of us to continue Charlie's legacy of spreading the good word and arguing our points respectfully and lovingly, but forcefully and unapologetically.

Speaker 10 Anyway, let's kick it off with some QA with you guys, and then I'll do some QA with our guests on this stage. I'm so happy to be with you.

Speaker 10 Get on up there, sit in the front row of your life. It's fine.

Speaker 9 Oh, thank you.

Speaker 10 Yeah, it was my birthday.

Speaker 9 Happy birthday, Megan. Thank you.

Speaker 10 My name's Heather. I'm here with my husband, Mike, tonight.
Hi.

Speaker 10 Thank you to you and all of your guests that are regularly on your show for showing us what it's like to the difference between a mediocre American citizen and an exceptional American citizen.

Speaker 9 You are that by far.

Speaker 10 Thank you.

Speaker 10 I wanted to give you a hypothetical.

Speaker 10 J.D. Vance might be our nominee in 2028.

Speaker 10 And I'm guessing that others are thinking what I'm thinking, but what if he calls you and he says, Megan Kelly?

Speaker 10 That's funny.

Speaker 9 I want you to be my running mate.

Speaker 10 Heather, you're funny.

Speaker 10 So I got enough problems in my life.

Speaker 10 I'll tell you, I always joke that I see myself more like the Queen of England. In that, you know how like all these prime ministers, they came and they went.
And the queen was always still there.

Speaker 10 She had total job security. That's kind of how I see my role.
They come and they go. You know, Barack Obama, he used to be kind of a big deal.

Speaker 10 Now I think I have more people coming on my tour than he could ever get on his.

Speaker 10 So I like where I am. Hi.

Speaker 9 Hi, Megan.

Speaker 19 Thanks for putting this together.

Speaker 19 My question

Speaker 19 relates to something Walter Kern, your friend Walter, and Matt Taibi recently said, which is that Trump's first administration was essentially

Speaker 19 curtailed, or the left tried to ruin it with this Russia, Russia, Russia, with this idea that the President of the United States, Trump, was subject to a foreign power without any evidence.

Speaker 19 And their position is that this administration is facing the same thing with Israel, Israel, Israel, subject to a foreign power with really no evidence and fill in the blank with the anti-Semitism.

Speaker 19 What do you have to say about that?

Speaker 10 Well, I mean, I see Trump's 2.0 being clouded by,

Speaker 10 you know, attempted lawfare for sure when he was running, and now by nonstop lawfare challenging every single thing he does. And Epstein is just the latest example of it.

Speaker 10 You know, this, like, Epstein, I'm all for like getting the Epstein files out, but it's just taking over now. And it's like, just look what happened these past two weeks.

Speaker 10 Trump's right when he said it's completely smothered the narrative of how badly the Democrats did in the shutdown. They totally folded.
And then what happened like the next day?

Speaker 10 They switched the story to Epstein as a distraction. And every day, Trump gets sued by yet another

Speaker 10 Democrat group or Democrat lawmaker to try to stop his agenda. And we have now all these judges at the district court level who are activists and trying to stop his agenda with their robes on.

Speaker 10 No one elected them to anything. So this is his new battle.

Speaker 10 And I do see this as sort of Russia 2.0, what's happening at the courts, and that's why I'm like on my knees every morning thanking God for this U.S. Supreme Court.
Yeah.

Speaker 9 Hello.

Speaker 10 Hi, Megan. We love you so much, first of all.
And,

Speaker 10 you know, we really love you, Candace, Tucker. I feel like I can truly trust you guys.
Thank you.

Speaker 10 And I just wanted to know your opinion on what Candace is saying about the Israeli planes following Erica around.

Speaker 10 I don't know what that is. I heard something about an Egyptian plane.
I didn't hear about an Israeli plane. Yeah, but I only saw the headline.
And while, you know,

Speaker 10 obviously I know that Candace makes a ton of news, I confess I don't actually get time to watch her show because I've got my own show and I've got my life and my kids.

Speaker 10 So forgive me, I don't know the answer to that. But thank you for asking and for the kind words.

Speaker 9 Terry Maxwell from KNZR, we did an interview a little while ago. Nice.
Hi, yes, hi. Love your shirt.

Speaker 9 I got a question about Arctic Frost and we've had the six people who have come out and really instigate an insurrection with our military.

Speaker 9 Put your lawyer's hat on and give us an input as to whether you think anything is going to happen with those two issues. Yeah.

Speaker 10 You saw these lawmakers like trying to tell the troops to disobey some random illegal order that hasn't been given. It's like,

Speaker 10 I mean, the biggest thing I thought about that was it was an utter fail because I had no idea what they were telling them to disobey, did you? Like, is it Venezuelan drug boats?

Speaker 10 Is it, like, really have no clue, so it was a fail.

Speaker 10 I don't know that it's going to go anyplace legally, but I think everybody should recognize that they're being governed by fools, absolute fools, drama-hungry, drama-queen fools, especially that horrible Alyssa Slotkin, who should not be re-elected by the Trump voters who put her in office.

Speaker 10 She's so proud of herself because she's in Michigan. She's like the same guys who put Trump in office, elected me as a U.S.
Senator. That was a fail.
It's a rare MAGA fail.

Speaker 10 She needs to be voted out of office as soon as humanly possible, which unfortunately is not going to be for another few years because she's relatively new. But that's my quick thought on it.

Speaker 10 Go ahead, sir. Hi.

Speaker 18 Hi, Megan. I'm Jim.
Your best interviews are the ones where you're taking the left on head to head.

Speaker 9 And I'm thinking Jake Tapper, I'm thinking Bill Maher.

Speaker 18 We love that because you're speaking for us and we imagine ourselves finally getting to hit the other side right where it hits and you don't back down.

Speaker 18 Can you have more interviews like that on your show?

Speaker 18 Yes, and if they don't go, if the A listeners won't show up, I recommend go to the B list, go to the C list, go to a college student who wants to get famous.

Speaker 18 Just, we want to see the ideas defeated, and you're the one to do it.

Speaker 10 Oh, I love that. Thank you.
You know, I don't do enough of that. You're right.
Whenever I have somebody on and we get into it, you know, like whatever.

Speaker 10 There was a clip of, I think it was Scott Gottlieb on there. Remember him during the COVID lockdowns?

Speaker 10 He had been in the Trump administration that he was trying to run around, tell us, as a former Republican, we could trust him when he said masks had to be on our toddlers. Like, that was a fun one.

Speaker 10 I don't miss him, but I do miss those exchanges. Hello, sir.
Hi.

Speaker 10 Love the jacket.

Speaker 15 Thank you. It loves your back.
It's amazing what you can get at Walmart these days.

Speaker 15 One serious, one light. How do we stop puberty blockers in kids who are only seven years old?

Speaker 10 We're winning.

Speaker 10 We're winning, right?

Speaker 10 I know I'm in the People's Republic of California.

Speaker 9 But in the other world, We're winning that fight.

Speaker 10 And I think eventually it's going to have to be handled by the U.S. Supreme Court.
It cannot be a state-by-state thing. It's literal child abuse.

Speaker 10 They're literally sterilizing minors without any possible informed consent. It's barbaric.
It's the new lobotomy. And we will look back at this day with shame.

Speaker 10 California needs to get on its act because you cannot have these far-left lunatics. You need Steve Hilton.
That's what you need.

Speaker 10 And he will help save this state and the children in it. But in the meantime, this is not an issue that we can be silent on.
Our children are literally being sterilized.

Speaker 10 If you cannot speak up for that, you are failing in your responsibility as an American citizen, as our first questioner said. So, your second one, quickly.

Speaker 15 What's your favorite Elvis song?

Speaker 9 Oh,

Speaker 10 Hound Dog,

Speaker 10 which I think was one of his first.

Speaker 10 Thank you.

Speaker 4 Hi, Megan. I'm Connor.

Speaker 10 I'm Chloe. Hi.

Speaker 4 And I've heard you speak about the Epstein files, and there's a lot of young people talking about it, and I kind of wanted to see how you or what you would say for the young people and trying to bring them in.

Speaker 10 On Epstein files, like to

Speaker 10 follow the coverage?

Speaker 9 Yeah, yes, ma'am.

Speaker 10 Well, I mean, I think it's very interesting for young people and old, but especially for young people, because I think what's really interesting about the Epstein story for a lot of people is

Speaker 10 how does our system,

Speaker 10 those in power, work to protect one another, irrespective of party? How does money and connections and fame and power all work together to get this web of protection across party lines?

Speaker 10 And who gets screwed over? Right?

Speaker 10 Like, because that same web that will work together to protect some very bad guys will work to screw you when it comes to property taxes and other taxes and the way government works and insider trading in Congress.

Speaker 10 You know, there are certain things that are so corrupt and disgusting, they cross party lines that leave young people feeling like they can't trust anybody, which is one of the reasons why Trump came under such pressure to just release the files and

Speaker 10 sort of did.

Speaker 10 I mean, I wouldn't put too much stock in what we're about to get from these files because there's like enough exceptions to what Pam Bondi has to produce that you could drive a truck through.

Speaker 10 So just keep your expectations moderate.

Speaker 4 And then my last question was, what's like one piece of advice that you can give to young conservatives like ourselves to keep bringing more people in?

Speaker 10 Don't be shy about your values. Don't hide it.

Speaker 10 You especially need that out here in California.

Speaker 10 Do not hide it now, thinking that, you know, when you graduate high school, when you graduate college, when you get your first job, and then leave that first job, then you'll finally be able to tell people about your conservative principles.

Speaker 10 No, you're seeding the fight. That's exactly what Charlie knew that the rest of us had been missing.
Don't seed the fight for young people in particular. Get in there.
You can do it better than I can.

Speaker 10 They'll listen to you more than they'll listen to me. Become an effective messenger.

Speaker 10 Listen to the people who are effective messengers and learn the argument so well that you can rattle it off the top of your head with ease.

Speaker 10 You You know, we always said, like, in the law, if I had a longer time, I would have written a shorter brief. And the same thing applies to rhetorical skills.

Speaker 10 Like, study a lot, talk a lot, listen to people who argue well a lot, and then your arguing will get better and more succinct, and you'll be able to do it more effectively with the people who really matter.

Speaker 10 Thank you.

Speaker 9 Hi. Hi, Megan.

Speaker 9 Love you.

Speaker 10 Love you. Okay.

Speaker 9 How do we feel about Tucker having Nick Fuentes on his show?

Speaker 10 A lot of people want to know, did you hear what she said? How do we feel about Tucker having Nick Fuentes on his show?

Speaker 10 You know, I asked Tucker about it, and my own belief is the reason he did it, this is not from him, but my belief is that the reason he did it was because he wanted to convey to him that it is not conservative to apply collective judgment or punishment to any group of people.

Speaker 10 And Nick Fuentes does that not only with Jews, but he does it with blacks. He does it with women, he does it with Indians.
I mean, like, there's a whole host of groups that he does it with.

Speaker 10 And my own belief is that Tucker thought, given Tucker, who's more of an elder statesman now in the party, that he had a shot at reaching Nick Fuentes.

Speaker 10 And my own belief is that that's also why Tucker did not emerge with Nick Fuentes' jugular, that he thought that would defeat the point, right?

Speaker 10 Like if you're trying to reach somebody, how are you going to do that if you put them on the defensive right away? Like here are all the terrible things you said.

Speaker 10 And so if you look at it from that standpoint, I think you understand it. Now, do I want to interview Nick? I don't.
Not at all.

Speaker 10 because if you watch Nick Fuentes, you will hear a lot of really horrible things. And it's very jarring.
Like,

Speaker 10 he's smart. I don't take that away from him.
He's got a very compelling way of speaking and like delivery.

Speaker 10 And he's actually made a lot of predictions about what's going to happen in the country politically that are correct. And

Speaker 10 I don't dismiss the fact that he's very popular, especially with young, disaffected men who we need to be talking to and understanding as opposed to just judging.

Speaker 10 But if you spend enough time listening to him, you will hear things that will make your eyelids peel back from your, I mean, it's like really jarring, upsetting characterizations of Jews and blacks and women and all the things not to mention his hatred for Charlie so go ahead but was Tucker a little easy on him

Speaker 10 no I don't think he was I think he had a different goal than to like beat up on him so if he if that were his goal he'd know how to do it we saw him do that with Ted Cruz yeah

Speaker 9 hi

Speaker 20 Hi there. Thank you for being part of the revival and modeling how to share our voices.
I really appreciate it.

Speaker 20 Two things, three things, sorry. First question is when you were a child, what was your favorite maybe just pick one because the line is large.

Speaker 9 The second one is really big to me.

Speaker 20 I'm starting to see Islamic coming into California and I see these girls and women being covered.

Speaker 10 How do we legally fight their invasion? And then that's a good question. Please come.
Apologies. There's so many people standing behind you.

Speaker 10 That is a good question. I think the first thing is we have to be real honest about what we want in our country.

Speaker 10 And I just think it's fine to say, to be honest about the fact that I don't think Islamic leaders are appropriate for American cities.

Speaker 10 Islam is not consistent with the values of the West. It's just not.

Speaker 10 Above all, it's a political doctrine. It's not just a religion.
It's a political doctrine. And

Speaker 10 there's no separation of church and state in Islam. They don't respect women's rights in Islam.
They don't respect free speech in Islam.

Speaker 10 And while, you know, if that's your thing and you're happening to be a Muslim, okay, fine. But I just don't think this is the place for you to actually obtain a position of political power.

Speaker 10 And I think we need to be honest about that.

Speaker 10 Go ahead, ma'am. Hi, I'm Vicki.
Hi. There seems to be a lot of concern in the country now about income inequality.

Speaker 10 I was wondering if you thought there should be any restraints on unfettered capitalism, and if so, what should they be? Thank you for that.

Speaker 10 I don't think there should be restraints on unfettered capitalism, really. I mean, I think capitalism is the way, and I'm really not pro the communist movement that's taking over places like New York.

Speaker 10 I don't believe with Zoram Mamdani that we shouldn't have billionaires. This is the United Fucking States of America.
You can come with nothing, and you can wind up a billionaire only here, only here.

Speaker 10 It's one of the majesties that is, you know, this country, that there is still, I know a lot of people don't feel it, but there is still the possibility of the American dream.

Speaker 10 And it's what gives people hope. It's why we have amazing inventors.
It's why we invent everything.

Speaker 10 Like, I went over to Scandinavia a couple years ago.

Speaker 9 What did they invent?

Speaker 10 Like, Ozempic, that was good.

Speaker 10 What else? Right? We do it all because of capitalism and the promise of changing your life. So, I don't think I understand income inequality, and a whole lot needs to be done to help the bottom up.

Speaker 10 And I don't mean government handouts, but I mean like just the way we're educating people right now in general for one thing. But the answer is not to hurt the people who have made it at the top.

Speaker 10 All right, we'll take one more and then we got to get the show on the road. Hi, Megan.

Speaker 10 I am wondering if you've ever taken your kids to see Mount Rushmore in South Dakota.

Speaker 9 We have, yes. Oh, yay.

Speaker 10 Yeah, we're so glad you came to me.

Speaker 9 Are you in South Dakota? I am.

Speaker 10 I drove here all the way from Rapid City to see you.

Speaker 10 And my favorite. Thank you.

Speaker 10 And my favorite cousin, Tammy. I came to see her, too, here in Bakersfield.
Nice, Tammy. Thank you for helping get this wonderful lady to us.

Speaker 9 We're nice to talk to you.

Speaker 10 We did go to Mount Rushmore, and we saw Crazy Horse, too, which we had never seen. Have you seen the Crazy Horse Monument?

Speaker 10 It's way bigger than Mount Rushmore. It's of this Native American.
It's like it's stunning display. And we do try to take our kids to places other than the Northeast.

Speaker 10 You know, we have a place in Montana, we go there many, many weeks a year. We have a little place in the New Jersey shore where we go in the summer.

Speaker 10 We're surrounded by firefighters and school teachers.

Speaker 10 What we really don't want is our kids to grow up spoiled brats who think, you know, everybody's got a private jet, which, you know, in our town in Connecticut, some people do.

Speaker 10 And it's very, very important to us that they try to grow up as normal as possible. But I love this story.

Speaker 10 I've told this before, But we were out in Montana at a radio, a rodeo one time, and our little guy, who's 12 now, was probably six.

Speaker 10 And we're sitting there, and at the beginning of the rodeo in Montana, you know, they're going to sing the national anthem. And

Speaker 10 Thatcher was a little slow to his feet.

Speaker 10 And I didn't have to say one word. There was a real cowboy with the hat and the shirt and the jeans.
He was like, You better get up, boy.

Speaker 10 I mean, oh, immediately, I was like, I could do no no better. This is my village, right?

Speaker 10 Anyway, so it is important. We loved Mount Rushmore.
It's so worth your time. I love it so much.
I'll tell you what's one thing, and then we'll go.

Speaker 10 We're having a big Fourth of July celebration this year, as we always do. You know, we bring out our colonial costumes, we reenact the Declaration of Independence, we go full bore.

Speaker 10 And Abby knows, my assistant knows, the one thing I've always wanted for this celebration, but I've never been able to get is a huge paper-mâché of Mount Rushmore.

Speaker 10 I want to stuff it in the back of my lawn. You know, how cool would that be to walk around? And then she got back to me.
She said, I finally found somebody who can do it.

Speaker 10 I'm like, great, this is the year. And she shot me an email yesterday saying it will cost $18,000.
And I said, it's a no.

Speaker 10 We'll hire a guy to walk around in like a Lincoln costume. That's the closest we're going to get.
Okay, let's go. We want to get on with the show.

Speaker 10 Thank you guys. Thanks so much for those great questions.

Speaker 10 So my first guest and I actually have a very interesting back history. We used to hate each other.

Speaker 10 I thought he was crazy. He thought I was crazy.
We sniped at each other on Twitter. We did not like each other.

Speaker 10 We had like surrogates who would snipe at each other about how terrible I was or how terrible he was. And so the love I have for Jack Pasobic grew naturally, if somewhat slowly, over the years.

Speaker 10 And you won't be surprised at all to learn the person who ultimately brought us together

Speaker 10 was Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 10 So what happened was as we got closer to the Trump era and I became sane again after that ridiculous dint at NBC and I started to realize like how crazy the left was, I completely started to understand Trump much better and became a true Trump fan.

Speaker 10 We kind of started to

Speaker 10 appreciate each other's Twitter game. You know, I was liking a lot of his stuff.
He started to like some of my stuff too. I thought, oh my god, we actually might

Speaker 10 be able to connect this guy and I. We actually might be able to be friends.
And then it happened, as it does with so many, that we met backstage at a turning point event.

Speaker 10 And we hugged. And Charlie was right there, and I knew that a friendship had been born.

Speaker 10 And now he has my back all the time on X, and I have his too, and I follow him religiously because he posts so many pearls of wisdom that I learn from all the time, which doesn't surprise me because he was in the Navy, he served his country with honor, and he's been fighting for his country in a different way ever since.

Speaker 10 Here's a little bit about Jack Pesobic.

Speaker 10 So I can safely say that at times, sometimes more than not even, we all feel sluggish, bloated, and not quite ourselves. Modern life is hard.

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Speaker 10 Here's a special offer: 30% off your first subscription order. Go to armra.com/slash Megan or enter the code Megan to get 30% off your first subscription order.
That's armra.com/slash Megan.

Speaker 4 We're not at a good time in this country. You need to take a stand and you need to pick a side now.
Doing the normie thing of sitting around and thinking things are going to get better, they're not.

Speaker 4 They're not going to get better on their own.

Speaker 4 To the world, Charlie Kirk was a conservative firebrand, hero, cultural icon.

Speaker 4 But to me, he was my friend.

Speaker 22 For Charlie's sacrifice for all of us, we will overcome their evil.

Speaker 4 The bullets are only going in one direction in this country. You know what you didn't see? You didn't see violence.
You didn't see a single person raise a fist in anger.

Speaker 4 You didn't see a single person on the right come out and say, I'm going to go do something violent in retaliation for Charlie Kirk. It just didn't happen because we are not those people.

Speaker 4 Stop being the silent majority. You've got to speak out now.

Speaker 22 And we will never ever let them forget the name, Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 16 I can tell the story, didn't you?

Speaker 10 I did it so fun here.

Speaker 10 You're right there.

Speaker 10 There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 10 I think it's a fun story because we overcame it, you know?

Speaker 4 We did overcome it. Thanks to Charlie.
She had to tell the story. She had to put me on blast, didn't she?

Speaker 10 But I mean, maybe you have a relationship like that in your life where you feel like, oh, no, no, we don't like each other. There's no way forward.
Maybe there is.

Speaker 10 Maybe you can find just a couple of lily pads, as I like to say, or you can jump on together. And then before you know it, you're swimming in the pond.

Speaker 4 But you know what? That was what, that's what Charlie did. And Charlie did that all throughout the movement.

Speaker 4 And we see so much, even right now, there's a lot of dissension there's a lot of infighting that's going on and you realize that Charlie would always try to find a way to take people who may be on different sides of an issue or maybe just had some

Speaker 4 you know some bad interaction and he would find a way to build that bridge because Charlie understood

Speaker 4 That it was about all of us fighting together and we are up against billionaires. We are up against psychopaths.
And I'm not just talking about Gavin Newsom, but

Speaker 4 he understood, he understood that if we were ever going to succeed, we had to do so together.

Speaker 4 And I appreciate you having me here, Megan, because, and I don't know if everyone, I'm sure most people realize this, I'm not supposed to be sitting on the stage right now.

Speaker 4 Charlie Kirk is supposed to be sitting on this stage right now.

Speaker 4 And he's not here because of them.

Speaker 4 And we are not going to ever rest, and we are not going to ever stop, and we are not going to ever let them forget the name of Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 10 That's right. Or Bersmirch it.

Speaker 10 Right?

Speaker 10 The

Speaker 10 war to define his legacy is on.

Speaker 10 And they try to smear him every day on the left and the New York Times and MSNBC and beyond. And his friends, his true friends, have all been out there fighting back against it.

Speaker 10 But I don't know, Jack, I've told others this. I think I've told you this.
When you stood up at Charlie's funeral with with the rosary beads in your hand like that, just

Speaker 10 it was like a Malcolm X almost like pose with the rosary beads, I felt better.

Speaker 10 And when I talked to you and Benny Johnson backstage that day of Charlie's Memorial, you guys said something that actually made me feel comforted for the first time.

Speaker 10 And this may sound kind of weird because everyone knows I'm not a shrinking violet and I'm not afraid of a fight, but I felt so much better because we were having a debate right then about whether we should reach out to the left, We needed to reach across the aisle and like extend the hand or whether it was a time to fight because they were literally murdering us now.

Speaker 10 And you guys said, and you were pissed, you guys were angry at the loss of Charlie and you guys said,

Speaker 10 you know, no offense, but it's time to let the men handle things right now. And I loved it.
I loved it.

Speaker 10 It wasn't actually about men. It was about fighters.
It was about, this is a time for fighting.

Speaker 4 Look,

Speaker 4 you come to situations and you hope that you can solve things with words, and Charlie tried to do that. You hope you can solve things with debate, and that's what our great country is all about.

Speaker 4 But when someone decides to stop using the ballot box,

Speaker 4 and then what do we see in this country? They went to the jury box. with President Trump and the law fair and hundreds of thousands really of patriots.

Speaker 4 And then, when that still didn't work, and they continued to lose power, they switched to the bullet box.

Speaker 4 And you had this guy climb up on a roof and take a shot and kill Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 4 And when I see something like that happen, I say, Look, and CNN asked me about this, and they're probably not going to invite me back on anytime soon. That's okay.

Speaker 9 You're good.

Speaker 4 And yeah, I'll be all right. I'm not going to lose sleep.
And

Speaker 4 I said, Look, I'm more than happy to unite with anyone who wants to have a conversation.

Speaker 4 But if you support that, like the thousands of people that we saw laughing about it and cheering about it, then I am not interested in uniting with you. I am only interested in defeating you.

Speaker 4 Right?

Speaker 10 I have felt since that day, not accidentally, that there's like

Speaker 10 I don't know, there's an evil in the air. Like there, do you guys, have you felt it at all?

Speaker 10 Like there's something, there's sort of a pall that's been cast over us since then.

Speaker 10 As I think we're actively fighting demons that are struggling for the souls of our fellow Americans and that are getting some of them. That's why you have

Speaker 10 that woman doing the,

Speaker 10 right? Like that woman, I really feel like a demon is involved there.

Speaker 4 A teacher. Right.

Speaker 10 Who's got little children in her her classroom all day.

Speaker 10 Talk about those rosary beads. Like, how do we protect ourselves?

Speaker 9 How do we protect them?

Speaker 4 You mentioned the rosary beads. So

Speaker 9 I had to get them here tonight and bring them.

Speaker 4 And Megan, because you said something so nice on your show the other day about them, I figured, why not bring an extra set that I could give to you?

Speaker 9 Oh my God, thank you. Oh, they're so beautiful.

Speaker 10 Thank you.

Speaker 10 Oh, they're so beautiful.

Speaker 9 They just feel empowering.

Speaker 4 This has right in the center, there, that has St. Michael the Archangel right there.

Speaker 9 Defend us in battle.

Speaker 4 And for folks who know the St. Michael prayer, it's St.
Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.

Speaker 4 May God rebuke him, we humbly pray.

Speaker 4 And do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, that the power of God cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who wander about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.
And that's

Speaker 4 That's it.

Speaker 10 Thank you. This means so much to me.

Speaker 8 Of course.

Speaker 10 Thank you.

Speaker 10 You joined Turning Point.

Speaker 10 What year was it? 2021?

Speaker 4 It was, yeah, so I was doing events back to 2018,

Speaker 4 but I didn't formally join until 2021. And that's when we started the show Human Events Daily.
And Charlie and Tyler came and said, hey, we want to do this idea.

Speaker 4 We want to expand into media and do news, and we

Speaker 4 want you to be that guy. And I said, I'd be honored to do it.
Yeah, I don't know if anyone's going to watch, but

Speaker 4 I'm happy to do it, and let's keep going. And then Charlie had his show, and I had my show, and it just grew and grew.

Speaker 10 So, one of the things you've clearly figured out in your time with Turning Point, with Charlie, out on the road with Turning Point, is maybe what's going on with young men

Speaker 10 in America. And you actually had a really interesting piece this week talking about that,

Speaker 10 and also talking about the trans furry thing that we keep seeing, right? We saw it. We know that Charlie's accused assassin was dating a man who was both a trans and an alleged furry.

Speaker 10 You know, I mean, alleged because that's not a thing. Neither is trans.

Speaker 10 And now we hear that, yes, and now we hear the same about the butler shooter who himself was they, them and into furry culture.

Speaker 10 And you're the first person I heard really talk about those two strains in a way that might actually explain why some of these men, these disaffected young white men, are falling prey to that insanity, which then leads to violence.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so, and this is, you know,

Speaker 4 look, you're close to these stories, and you try to analyze it objectively, and it's and it's tough, but at the same time, you have to look at the facts and follow the facts where they lead.

Speaker 4 And we know, on the face of it, that this furry culture and more of this transgender culture comes up in both cases. And what's interesting is it's also, I think, an aspect of transhumanism.

Speaker 4 And transhumanism is, of course, this idea that we can transcend our human bodies. And Yuval Harari talks about this, and he goes over to the World Economic Forum a lot.

Speaker 4 And what it means is that they sell this idea that you can become something which you are not. And that's really what it comes down to.
And it's a break with reality.

Speaker 4 And a break with reality, if you go to the classic textbook definition psychologically, is psychosis.

Speaker 4 That is the definition of what a psychotic break with reality is, a rejection of reality. A man cannot become a woman.
A woman cannot become a man. It's physically impossible.

Speaker 4 A human being cannot. This is true.
This is true. And

Speaker 4 I know to say that in a California is a revolutionary act, I suppose. Gavin, I'm here, by the way.
I promised I'd come by.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 to

Speaker 4 attempt to turn yourself into an animal is also impossible.

Speaker 4 And yet,

Speaker 4 there's this kind of toxic situation where young men, particularly young white men, have been so completely dispossessed in our society, totally disenfranchised.

Speaker 4 You see this with Tyler Robinson, his trans boyfriend, Lance Twiggs, these downwardly mobile young white males who are castigated by society, are told that everything that is wrong with society is their their fault.

Speaker 4 They see program after program set up for every other race and ethnicity and gender other than them.

Speaker 4 And they start to disconnect from reality. They see the economic situation not being good for Gen Z and for young people.
So they disconnect with reality.

Speaker 4 And you look at what do all of them have in common? Think about this. And I mentioned this in the piece for human events.

Speaker 4 Luigi Maggioni, Thomas Matthew Crookes, and Tyler Robinson.

Speaker 4 They were all in high school during COVID.

Speaker 4 They were all in. So imagine you're in that situation.
Now you can't leave your home. You're locked in.

Speaker 9 You've got your cell phone.

Speaker 4 You've got that little piece of glass right in front of you. So if you can't go into the outside world, what do you do? You go into the virtual world.

Speaker 4 And you're then inundated, and Charlie spoke about this, you're inundated with pornography, and the pornography becomes more and more extreme. We know that Tyler Robinson was looking at

Speaker 4 pornography which involved furries and drawings, which involved

Speaker 4 young animals, human animal creatures, almost like a form of child pornography. And at some point, you start to blend your vision of what's reality and what is false reality.

Speaker 4 And because of the cognitive dissonance of not being able to actually achieve that in reality, it expresses itself in violence.

Speaker 10 So how do we even begin to go about finding those guys and helping them?

Speaker 4 Well, I think, you know, I think you have to put it in different buckets.

Speaker 4 This country used to have a problem with serial killers. We set up units at the FBI.
We set up units at Quantico. There's movies about this.
You can go watch them.

Speaker 4 And we understood and unpacked what it was that made the serial killer tick, and we went after them.

Speaker 4 set up behavioral sciences to get them off the streets. So for the ones that are becoming incredibly and more increasingly violent, violent, you have to get them off.

Speaker 4 Look, the New York Post had, Randa Devine had the story this week. Thomas Matthew Crookes was conducting Google searches in his true name,

Speaker 4 asking about how to kill Donald Trump, how to look up the distance from Butler, what type of shot was JFK and how far the Oswald and all this other stuff. It's all out there.

Speaker 4 And yet the FBI was more interested in going after parents who were at school boards that didn't want trans in the classroom and Catholics who were praying the rosary a little bit too hard.

Speaker 4 That's what our FBI was doing.

Speaker 4 And if our FBI had actually been focused on this threat the way it was, then Donald Trump would not have been shot in Butler and Charlie Kirk would be sitting right here and not me. Yes.

Speaker 10 That's absolutely right.

Speaker 4 And I would say, and just in addition to that though, in addition to that, you also, so get the ones off the street that are too far gone, lock them up, don't just medicate them.

Speaker 4 They actually need to be under intensive care. Rebuild the mental institutions, of course.
Yes.

Speaker 4 And yes, and you in California know that better than others.

Speaker 9 And then

Speaker 4 you don't want people getting lost in our false reality, so that means we have to make actual reality better for young people, for Gen Z.

Speaker 4 You have to have a pathway to ownership, to equity, to being able to get on your feet in society today. And that means making the economy better.

Speaker 4 That means getting rid of the 30 million illegal aliens that are probably just here in California and you know across the entire country because how can we possibly expect people to go into a society that is so messed up and I would add one other thing to that which is wokeism must die of course

Speaker 10 these young men cannot hear one more day of they have some original sin as a result of what happened in this country 200 years ago that they must bear that will not get them into a good college program or get them into a good trade or get them a wife because they've been dubbed toxically masculine all of that must stop.

Speaker 10 Has to stop if we want to rescue an entire generation of young men. Thank God it started with President Trump getting re-elected.
I wanted to show you something that made the news today.

Speaker 10 This is Sam Harris. Do you guys know who that is?

Speaker 10 Sam Harris? Yeah, so you do.

Speaker 4 Sam's a big fan of mine. He loves me.

Speaker 10 So Sam Harris considers himself an intellectual type. He's an atheist.
He's big into meditation. He's the son of the woman who created the Golden Girls.
Yes. Yeah, so

Speaker 10 and he's very good on certain things. Like if you ever look at the old clips of Sam Harris on Bel Maher talking about the problem of Islam, he will tell it like it is.

Speaker 10 However, he's got a serious case of TDS.

Speaker 10 And he's apparently also got some Charlie Kirk derangement syndrome that affected his commentary today on this sound bike. Take a listen to this.

Speaker 24 There's no party left of center, a real party for political assassination.

Speaker 24 And yet right of center,

Speaker 24 very prominent people from the president and Elon on down treated it like the first shot fired in the Civil War. Totally irresponsible, totally dishonest.
I mean,

Speaker 24 these people were arsonists pretending to be firefighters.

Speaker 24 Elon jumped on X within minutes before, I think before Kirk was declared dead, certainly before his his killer was caught and said the left is the party of murder. It's beyond reckless.

Speaker 24 I mean it's just sociopathic. It's just he is he is just flinging matches into a landscape that has been just soaked in gasoline.

Speaker 24 And the soaking has been done mostly by Trump and Trumpism.

Speaker 10 So discussing the actual murder of Charlie Kirk, you heard he was full of blame for whom?

Speaker 9 Not the left.

Speaker 10 He excused them. For Elon and Trump, who he said were arsonists disguising themselves as firemen.
Your thoughts on it?

Speaker 4 Well, what he's doing here is a very clear example of victim blaming, and he's also, I love this, because who is the real victim in the murder of Charlie Kirk? Is it Charlie? No. Is it Erica? No.

Speaker 4 Is it the children? No. It's Sam Harris.
Sam Harris thinks that he's the one who's the victim, the same way the leftists always play the victim card every single time, no matter what has happened.

Speaker 4 And what he's using here is a technique which is known as Darvo. And Darvo is something that narcissists and leftists, I know I repeat myself,

Speaker 4 do all the time. It's simple.
It's called deny, attack, and then reverse victim and offender. So deny, say that that didn't happen.

Speaker 4 You attack back, so you counter punch, and then you reverse victim and offender. Once you see this tactic, you will see the left use it over and over again.
And that's always what Sam Harris does.

Speaker 4 Now, I could show you videos, by the way. We all could.

Speaker 4 If you don't believe me, go look up my friend Libs of TikTok and Hire Ichik, and she'll show you the thousands of people who are celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 4 Olivia Kralchuk was, I think, calling a lot of employers, and Rudy Giuliani was calling a lot of employers.

Speaker 4 And yet they will still sit there. and look you square in the face and lie to you and say none of that ever happened, none of those people exist.

Speaker 4 Well, ladies and gentlemen, 1.7 million people in Virginia just voted for Jay Jones after he had text messages saying that all of our children should be made to die so that we will feel pain and that we then may change our stance on policy.

Speaker 4 We have a huge problem in this country and the bullets are only flying one way. That's right.

Speaker 10 And what did Elon say that wasn't true?

Speaker 4 What did he say?

Speaker 10 He blamed the left and he was exactly right. Charlie's shooter, accused shooter, is of the left and that's very clear no matter what the left now.

Speaker 4 to say. The bullet casing said, hey, fascist catch, and the other casing said, Bella Chow on it, and Bella Chow is the international anthem of Antifa.

Speaker 10 God bless you. Thank you for leading with faith, with love, but with toughness.
It's exactly what we do.

Speaker 4 Thank you. And Megan, if you would indulge me,

Speaker 4 today's actually, and I know you're going to see her on Saturday, but today's actually Erica Kirk's birthday.

Speaker 4 And I was wondering if you guys could all join me in saying happy birthday to Erica.

Speaker 9 Oh, I love that.

Speaker 10 All right, sing it loud because I'm not a good singer.

Speaker 9 Happy birthday to you.

Speaker 9 Happy birthday to you.

Speaker 9 Happy birthday, dear Erica.

Speaker 9 Happy birthday to you.

Speaker 9 Awesome, right?

Speaker 10 Sorry, but that's what we need.

Speaker 10 I see Jack as like the red meat of our party. You know, you need red meat.
You know,

Speaker 10 I guess somebody has to be the broccoli, too.

Speaker 10 Somebody's got to be the martini. I'll do that.

Speaker 10 But you need the red meat, too. And that, of course, leads me to Victor Davis Hansen.

Speaker 10 I know he's so great.

Speaker 10 If you know somebody more brilliant than Victor Davis Hansen, then you know better people than I do because honestly, like there are a lot of great guests that we have on the MK show, but there is not a single guest who is smarter than VDH.

Speaker 10 You know he's a professor at Stanford University. It's amazing they still have him.

Speaker 10 He's got tenure for life. That's the problem.
He's the fellow at the Hoover Institution.

Speaker 10 He's a professor of the classics, which he had to explain to me the first time he came onto my show what the hell that is. I didn't even know.
I went to public school, as you know.

Speaker 10 And he's been educating us all ever since. He is beloved by Donald Trump and I think by all of us.
Take a look at VDH.

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Speaker 9 All right, let's go. Isn't it great to be together? It's so great to see you!

Speaker 10 You're not alone. It's only the liberal media and the haters who want you to think that.
We're in the majority right now.

Speaker 9 We're from Chicago.

Speaker 20 We fool in just for this.

Speaker 9 I was like, we have to go.

Speaker 10 And then after what happened to Charlie, I'm like, we definitely have to go. Don't miss your last chance to be part of the Megan Kelly Live Tour.

Speaker 9 It's a very important time in our country, Megan.

Speaker 3 Stand firmly.

Speaker 9 Do not waver on the truth.

Speaker 10 Next stops, Bakersfield, Anaheim, and the Grand Finale in Glendale, Arizona, featuring special guest, Erica Kirk.

Speaker 10 I really genuinely feel like it's more important right now than ever, you know, for all the reasons. And it took courage for all of you to come the biggest thing we can do is be unafraid

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Speaker 9 a column written today by victor davis hansen i want to just read you a quote by victor davis hansen Victor Davis Hanson in the National Review.

Speaker 10 Victor Davis Hanson writes of the President Today.

Speaker 9 A great gentleman, Victor Davis Hansen, you were one of the first intellectuals to support Donald Trump. You just spoke to the people.
We had to fight back and not be worried what people said. Dr.

Speaker 9 Fauci, he's told us masks are essential, they're not essential. One mask is okay.
No, two is better. I just lied because it was for your own good.

Speaker 10 I like to torture you, BDH. Look at this.

Speaker 4 It's It's kind of like an athlete that never lifts weights or never runs.

Speaker 10 Unburdened by what has been.

Speaker 4 She just is intellectually lazy.

Speaker 10 Letitia James' grandniece. Here she is, Victor.
Are you familiar with the website OnlyFans, my friend?

Speaker 10 Have you heard?

Speaker 9 No, I have not.

Speaker 11 Okay.

Speaker 8 During the Reagan years, that was a very liberating period.

Speaker 11 Make America great again.

Speaker 9 With all due respect to his memory and legacy, I don't think he did as much in eight years as Donald Trump has done it.

Speaker 22 We're going to win so much, you may even get tired of winning.

Speaker 9 He's not done yet.

Speaker 4 He's indestructible.

Speaker 10 One, the only, Victor Davis Hansen.

Speaker 10 Yes, the legend.

Speaker 9 Look at this. Look at that.

Speaker 10 Aw, they love you, Victor.

Speaker 10 Oh, you guys are so sweet.

Speaker 10 Look at that welcome. They love you.

Speaker 9 I have a confession to make. Tell me.
I've always lived in Fresno County. I was born in the same house.

Speaker 9 But I've always preferred Bakersfield to Fresno. Oh!

Speaker 10 And there it is.

Speaker 10 Victor, let me pick up with you where I left off with Jack. What do you make of that Sam Harris coming out and saying that the issue with respect to Charlie's death is that

Speaker 10 Elon sent out a tweet blaming the left and that Trump was too incendiary around it and that these were arsonists pretending to be firemen, that that's really the issue.

Speaker 9 I didn't hear that last part.

Speaker 10 That

Speaker 10 they were arsonists pretending to be firemen, Trump and Elon, after Charlie Kirk died.

Speaker 10 And really the issue was their rhetoric, their rhetoric around Charlie's murder, not the leftist rhetoric that got him killed.

Speaker 9 Yeah,

Speaker 9 I don't really pay attention to any of that, not to sound sanctimonious, but Charlie Kirk, if I could just say something about him, he did two things that nobody else will ever do

Speaker 9 in my lifetime. And the first was

Speaker 9 He told left-wing, he said to people all over campuses in America, 18 to 30,

Speaker 9 he said, you have a natural rebellious nature, and I want you to encourage that because the establishment is not the conservative establishment.

Speaker 9 The left is the establishment, so it's natural to rebel, not just because you're young, but because you're logical, and these people are crazy. And that was very unique.
The other thing is

Speaker 9 He didn't go to college and graduate, and yet he goes to the Oxford debate union, and he takes on supposedly the most sophisticated people in the English-speaking world and he shows that you don't have to go to college to show how

Speaker 9 uneducated a lot of people in college are and it's like

Speaker 9 I've spent 50 years in academia with PhDs and then I was given a great gift to live on a farm and that schizophrenia I would come from the academic world and I was told how smart they were and then I saw what farmers did and I knew how stupid they were.

Speaker 9 Because there's nobody smarter than a farmer. He's a mechanic, he's a genius, he does everything but not academic and charlie knew that

Speaker 10 and yet you spent a lifetime in this crazy environment so how did they never pull you leftward

Speaker 9 uh

Speaker 9 i have a twin brother that doesn't speak to me so uh

Speaker 9 it pulled everybody in my in my generation and my family um

Speaker 9 I had a great gift when I was 17. My parents were very practical, and they said, there's a new campus.
It's called UC Santa Cruz. And it's the closest one.

Speaker 9 All three of you guys can go there and you'll save money. So I went there and it was a communist, crazy place.
And so you either had two choices, to join them or to rebel against them.

Speaker 9 And I rebelled against them. And I came home.

Speaker 10 But how did you withstand it, right?

Speaker 10 Because you look at, you know, these judges who go on the Supreme Court and they get sucked into the Georgetown Party circuit, and then suddenly they need to be loved by the leftist Washington Post.

Speaker 10 And certainly, a professor like on a university campus like Stanford,

Speaker 10 a lesser man would have submitted to the leftist dogma long ago.

Speaker 7 So, I don't get it. Like, how did you do it?

Speaker 9 It was a great idea.

Speaker 9 I wish I could take credit, but I can't because the first thing I did when I got to the Hoover Institution, I taught 21 great years at Cal State Fresno. I loved it there, but I was burned out.

Speaker 9 So, I got to

Speaker 9 Hoover, and this strange guy called me up and he said, I like what you write. We're going to have lunch twice a month for the next 15 years.
It was Tom Sowell.

Speaker 10 Thomas Sowell.

Speaker 9 And I never met a more brilliant guy.

Speaker 9 And so, and then the next guy I met was Shelby Steele.

Speaker 9 Wow. And the third guy I met was Scott Atlas.
Oh, my God. And I said, these people are so much brighter than the entire Stanford faculty.
So I never had a doubt.

Speaker 9 And then when people said, well, this person says you're crazy, or this person says you're a farmer hick, or this person says you belong back at Fresno State, I would say, Tom, Scott, what's the reality?

Speaker 9 So I had a group of people who I admired and they were brilliant.

Speaker 9 So I was very lucky, very, very lucky. I had wonderful parents.
My parents...

Speaker 9 My grandfather lived on a farm for

Speaker 9 four generations and he had three daughters. And he mortgaged this little farm and sent them to Stanford University and so my mom 1942 had two

Speaker 9 degrees from Stanford and then she went to law school there and then she went back and became a mom with three kids and worked on the farm yeah and then she became the first and you still have the farm the reason for that yeah so she was I got a good the good thing about that was because they had gone to college the first in generation

Speaker 9 they kept saying don't be warped by college do not you have to work. I came home the first semester.
I said, hey,

Speaker 9 I know,

Speaker 9 hey, I'm going to take Latin. And my father said, do you know how to weld? Do you know how to wire the dehydrator?

Speaker 9 And when I graduated...

Speaker 10 Maybe a little more practical.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I graduated with a PhD at 25, and I came home, and I said, I didn't even go to the graduation. I had to work at a farm.

Speaker 9 And my dad said, My brother was kind of a smart, very bright guy, very smart, kind of smart allocy. So I came back and said, I have a PhD in classics from Stanford.

Speaker 9 And he said to my dad, he's like a dog that can dance on two legs. It's really impressive, but nobody knows what it's for.

Speaker 9 All right,

Speaker 10 let's talk a little politics because I promised the audience earlier I was going to ask you this question.

Speaker 10 I heard my pal Mark Halperin on Next Up with Mark Halperin on the MK Media Podcast Network

Speaker 10 talking this morning about the latest Fox News poll that shows only 1515%

Speaker 10 of the American population says that their financial situation has improved as a result of Trump.

Speaker 10 And he said if the numbers stay like this on Trump's economic approval, it's going to be a bloodbath in November.

Speaker 10 That not only could Republicans, they will lose the House, but they could lose the Senate too.

Speaker 10 So your thoughts on how Trump turns that around?

Speaker 9 Well,

Speaker 9 no president has ever been as wonderful as Trump has done overseas.

Speaker 9 No president has ever been re-elected on foreign policy.

Speaker 9 George H.W. Bush had that fantastic first Gulf War, 1991.

Speaker 9 Four days he destroys Saddam's land army. He's polling at 90%, and he loses to Bill Clinton because Clinton says we're, and we weren't.

Speaker 9 We were in a mild recession in 92, but he said it's a Great Depression. And for all of that foreign...

Speaker 9 so if you actually look at the statistics, over four years Joe Biden averaged 5.2% inflation every year.

Speaker 9 Trump came in, it was 3.0. This month it was 3.0.
They think the economy may grow at 4% GDP. He came in at 2.

Speaker 9 He's got

Speaker 9 a very good inflation rate. comparatively, but what the left is saying is we were in power for four years and we raised prices by 21.5%

Speaker 9 and you've been in office 10 months and you haven't reduced them. It's your fault.
And he can't get that message out. So what he needs to remember what James Carvert is, the economy is stupid.

Speaker 9 The Epstein files, all that matters is to try to remind everybody what he's done, what he did in the first term, but more importantly,

Speaker 9 what he's doing next year. What he's doing right now has long-term implication.
I'll just get very quickly.

Speaker 9 He's already pumping 1 million barrels of oil. We've never pumped more than 14 million.
He's going to go to 16.

Speaker 9 He's never done more natural gas. We are the largest natural gas and oil producer in the world.

Speaker 9 Second,

Speaker 9 I don't know if he's

Speaker 9 Art of the Deal exaggerating when he says he has $20 trillion in foreign investment. Let's say it's half, 10.
Last year, Biden, he had $79 billion. So we've never had that before.

Speaker 9 We've never had that.

Speaker 10 You guys know this. Trump is using the tariffs to negotiate deals in which these countries,

Speaker 10 he jacks up the tariffs, then he says, I'll lower them by half, but you have to invest a bunch of money in American manufacturing, create jobs here.

Speaker 10 So he's gotten somewhere between $10 and $20 trillion of investment in America, whereas Joe Biden never even got $1 trillion.

Speaker 9 So what I'm getting at is,

Speaker 9 and then he's going to have this continuation of the big, beautiful tax cut and the deregulation.

Speaker 9 You deregulate the economy, you give tax cuts, you've got all of this, not just the oil revenue and the export, and he's dealing with the tariff income, as you said, and gas energy prices are already going down.

Speaker 9 They were $348 a gallon during the four years of Biden. They're already at $2.98, not here, but nationwide.

Speaker 9 So what I'm getting at is if he can survive and get that message out, and you're going to have a lot of psychological lift with the World Cup and the 250th anniversary. It's going to be a nice year.

Speaker 9 And I think these things will kick in in June or July and he'll be fine if they stick to the message and that is the economy was terrible when we came in.

Speaker 9 We made it better and now it's getting good and get the message out.

Speaker 10 I feel like the message is not Epstein related,

Speaker 10 but we're in that morass now. So how does that play out? Because the Democrats, they're loving swimming in that pool.

Speaker 10 They're loving it a little bit less now that Larry Summers has been outed as the chief friend of Jeffrey Epstein. Did you guys saw this?

Speaker 10 Former president of Harvard, former Treasury Secretary under Bill Clinton, also worked for Barack Obama.

Speaker 10 And the first real name to come out, not as somebody who was like receiving trafficked girls, but who was BFFs with Jeffrey Epstein long past the time when we knew what a disgusting scumbag he was.

Speaker 10 The Miami Herald piece broke in November of 2018, and he's sending Jeffrey Epstein messages like a small schoolgirl asking for his hair to be braided.

Speaker 10 Two months later, all the way up to the day before Jeffrey got arrested, now he's stepped down from all of his duties at Harvard. He's not teaching his classes anymore.

Speaker 10 So we'll see whether the left continues to love the Epstein story as much as they currently do. But how do you see that playing out over the next year or so?

Speaker 9 I don't know if people

Speaker 9 were accurate when they said Trump was playing five-dimensional chess or whatever they claimed, but he did have a big noose noose and they put their neck in it. Why that I'm in is

Speaker 9 he communicated

Speaker 9 with Jeffrey Epstein before he was a convicted sexual assaulter, and then he broke it off before he was convicted.

Speaker 9 These people, and 80% of the textual trobe has references in a case of political affiliation with Democrats.

Speaker 9 But most of them, if you looked at what the news says, most of them are after he was convicted. So basically they said.

Speaker 10 And convicted, like he pleaded guilty to solicitation of sex with a minor

Speaker 10 prostitute, which, as you always know, what do I say?

Speaker 10 That is not a thing. A minor cannot be a prostitute.
That's child rape. So he pleaded guilty to that.
In 2008, they all knew it. Katie Couric, she knew it.

Speaker 10 Now she's trying to say, oh, I didn't know when I went to his townhouse for dinner that time. George Stephanopoulos knew.
They all knew. They just decided to overlook it because he was rich as F.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I don't get it.

Speaker 9 They have control of the files, so-called files, for four years under Biden, and they know because they have access to them that most of the people who are mentioned are Democrats, and they know that most of the people who are Democrats who are mentioned are mentioned after they knew that he was a convicted felon, and so they didn't release them.

Speaker 9 And yet, when Trump comes in, they said, because you don't release them, you must be implicated.

Speaker 9 When they know, after they raided his home, they de-balloted him, they had law affair, they would do anything to destroy him. So they would have leaked something if there was anything to be leaked.

Speaker 9 So then, what were they thinking? So now Trump has control over them.

Speaker 9 And all he has to do is say, I really didn't want to release them. And he probably didn't, because there's probably a few...

Speaker 9 you know, Republican grandee donors. So he probably was worried.
He was getting calls. Please don't do that.

Speaker 9 There's not enough context. But that being said,

Speaker 9 you know what's going to happen. Every two weeks or something, a name is going to come out, and it's going to be a Democrat, and it's going to be a Larry Summers or a chief counsel person or somebody.

Speaker 9 And he's just going to let it keep going. Yes.
And I don't know why they walked into this minefield.

Speaker 10 Think about that. What if this whole story gets turned so that every other week we find out a new Democrat who is in the FC files, and we've already heard everything there is to hear about Trump?

Speaker 10 I mean, think of that. If that's actually how this story lands, these Democrats and the media will run from this story so fast, it'll blow that hat right off your head.

Speaker 9 Yes,

Speaker 9 they will.

Speaker 9 But the only rational explanation is they are so obsessed. I've never, we've all tried to figure out why they hate him so much.

Speaker 9 Maybe it's his Queen's accent, maybe it's his orange color, maybe it's comb over.

Speaker 9 I don't know, but maybe he had no political experience, but they are so obsessed with him that they do the stupid, I mean, Jasmine Crockett talking about Lee Zeldin and this other Dr.

Speaker 10 Epstein. That was amazing.

Speaker 9 And it's every day, and

Speaker 9 so their only strategy now is

Speaker 9 to make these videos with the S word, the F word, the scream and yell, kickbox, say Trump is this and that, and they want us, as the American people, collectively, to get in a fetal position, put our hands over there, and just make it go away.

Speaker 9 I don't care. That's not going to work.
That's not happening. But that's their strategy, a total chaos.
And then the other thing very quickly is

Speaker 9 we had a Civil War, and the Civil War was fought over the nullification of federal law and

Speaker 9 disloyalty to the Union. All of a sudden, we find out that, you know,

Speaker 9 The mayor of Chicago says, if ICE comes on our territory, we're going to resist them. What does that mean? He's going to pull out guns guns and they're going to shoot each other north and south.

Speaker 9 Nancy Pelosi says we're going to arrest a she's never read the Constitution that says federal law is supreme to local and state law in matters of federal jurisdiction.

Speaker 9 And then we have these 600 jurisdictions that are nullificated. They're like South Carolina in 1850.
We're not going to obey federal law. And you can see where this is going.

Speaker 9 So and then now they're issuing a video where they're telling 1.3 million people in the military, if you get an order and you decide, because you're all legal scholars, and you decide that if you don't want to obey it, just don't obey it.

Speaker 9 So they're basically calling for an insurrection. And then they have all these ex-generals and admirals who in the past have said Donald Trump was a fascist.

Speaker 9 So almost, what's eerie is almost every aspect of what caused the Civil War, These very liberal progressive people are emulating as if they're Jeff Davis or, I don't know Stonewall Jackson.

Speaker 9 So how does that end?

Speaker 10 Yes.

Speaker 9 They're headed toward a situation if they don't stop

Speaker 9 that they're going to have a local

Speaker 9 and we almost had it in Chicago when they wouldn't come to the help of ICE that was trapped but Karen Bass says we're using LA officials to try to thwart ICE and help illegal aliens who are in the street waving the flag of the country under no circumstances they want to return to and burning the flag of the country they want to stay in.

Speaker 9 That is so true.

Speaker 10 So well said.

Speaker 9 I don't get it, but I'm afraid that if somebody doesn't stop it, you're going to get a situation where a local police force on the orders of a blue state mayor is going to say, stop them, and we're going to get a gunfight.

Speaker 9 And then we're at Fort Sumter territory.

Speaker 9 And so it's scary, and they've got us, they're really calling for insurrection.

Speaker 10 And meanwhile, the American people continue to support the deportation of all illegal immigrants in the country right now, all of them. Not just the ones who have committed additional crimes.

Speaker 9 Absolutely. So

Speaker 10 all right, so now we need to take a moment to talk about Michelle Obama's hair.

Speaker 10 I've been told by her many times this is very important. What are you laughing at?

Speaker 10 Racists?

Speaker 9 Yes.

Speaker 10 We're all racist because she had to iron her hair. She talks about it on every tour stop.
She's promoting her book. Hold on, I want to see which one it is.
Okay,

Speaker 10 there's so many to choose from.

Speaker 10 But here's here's the latest. This is sought for.
Let's take a look. A lot of people want to know, what do braids mean?

Speaker 9 What does she mean? Look, y'all.

Speaker 9 Why are she mean?

Speaker 10 You know, I mean, that's what white folks are.

Speaker 9 It's like, what does that mean?

Speaker 10 What are you saying?

Speaker 10 We're saying nothing. Let me explain something to white people.

Speaker 10 Our hair comes out of our head naturally in a curly pattern. So when we're straightening it to follow your beauty standards, we we are trapped by the straightness.

Speaker 10 It is exhausting and it's so expensive and it takes up so much time.

Speaker 10 Braids are for y'all so we can work harder and focus on the work.

Speaker 10 Don't touch it.

Speaker 10 Just don't.

Speaker 10 She's sitting there with the straight hair.

Speaker 10 Telling the people not to and can I just say for the record it is not just black people who who have to deal with their hair a lot in the morning All right now people I have something to tell you.

Speaker 10 This is not all mine

Speaker 10 I Mentioned a lot on the show, but if you could see the number of little hell things in there that Sarah's got to deal with every day to try to cover them up so you guys think this looks natural It is not just a black thing Michelle.

Speaker 10 Sorry, Victor. Go ahead.

Speaker 9 Well

Speaker 9 when I get up in the morning. Thank you.

Speaker 9 When I get up in the morning, I wish I had hair.

Speaker 9 I wish I had Michelle's hair other than this. But my point is this.

Speaker 9 I understand that she's insecure

Speaker 9 and she has four mansions. So when she's talking, I can't figure out whether she flew in from Martha's Vineyard, the Washington

Speaker 9 Mansion, the Chicago Mansion, or the Beachfront Mansion in Hawaii. And then she says this, and I was listening to the radio when she, this was on the story the other day.

Speaker 9 So I get, I walk to my office the first person I see is a beautiful Asian woman with straight hair the next person I see is a beautiful Mexican-American woman with straight hair the third person I meet is a guy that I knew who has very kinky white he's white and he has curly hair and I thought well

Speaker 9 White people don't have a monopoly on straight hair. So why are you saying this unless you have some problem?

Speaker 9 And the problem, I I think is

Speaker 9 my entire life

Speaker 9 whether it was getting into Princeton or Harvard or getting the Nikki account or something at my law firm or getting this huge job at the University of Chicago I always it was always predicated on I could make white people feel guilty and that I was a victim even though I grew up as middle class and I was given every opportunity And so when you look at this scenario and you think of, just to take an example,

Speaker 9 Salma, California, East Palestine, Ohio, where you have very poor people who happen to be white. And so, what I'm getting at is

Speaker 9 when we obsess on race and not class, which the Democratic Party does, it's absurd. It's like Mondami saying, I'm going to go after white affluent neighborhoods.

Speaker 9 And then you say, well, let me do a Google search for two seconds and see which is the most affluent ethnic minority in the United States. Indian Americans.
That's right.

Speaker 9 40% more income than the average white family. So the whole racial thing has sort of jumped a shark now.
It's just ridiculous.

Speaker 10 Forgive me, but I do have one more.

Speaker 10 This was not about the hair, but this falls into the Stephen L. Miller, the Red Stees on Twitter category of, I regret to inform you, we've disappointed the Obamas again.

Speaker 10 Here she is. We've got to play on how confining the damn role of First Lady was.

Speaker 9 Let's watch. And an eight-year stint as first lady

Speaker 23 tends to confine,

Speaker 23 to be a bit confining, right?

Speaker 10 Because,

Speaker 23 you know, the role, the job was not to just represent me, but to represent the nation.

Speaker 21 And as the first black family in that house, just like, you know, black folks feel in all the first positions that we're the, you know, we're carrying the torch, we're lighting the way, which means that we've got to do it really, really well so that the next folks will have a chance.

Speaker 23 You know, when you're, when you're the only, you know, you feel like if you don't get it right, nobody will ever get this position.

Speaker 21 Women, people of color,

Speaker 10 people of

Speaker 23 different ethnicities, of different genders and sexual orientation, we all feel that.

Speaker 10 So poor Michelle, it was especially confining for her to be First Lady because she's black. Yeah.

Speaker 10 And I'm sure every other First Lady before and after Michelle Obama felt totally free with the role and like lifted the dress up and said, hey, take a look at me.

Speaker 10 It didn't feel confined at all being First Lady of the United States. Just the black one.

Speaker 9 Michelle,

Speaker 9 people were so

Speaker 9 discriminatory against her. They put her on Vogue magazine about four times.
And no offense to Michelle, it has nothing to do with race. But Melania Trump is beautiful.

Speaker 9 They wouldn't put her on one time. It would be like her saying,

Speaker 9 well, you'll know they hate Eastern Europeans, so I never got on Vogue. It's crazy.
And then in 2004,

Speaker 9 the so-called white vote for John Kerry was less than the white vote for Barack Obama four years later.

Speaker 9 In other words, Barack Obama won, and he beat John McCain not because of the black vote, it was a sure thing, 96%, is because a huge number of white people decided to vote for him, a black man, more than they did the prior white Democratic candidate.

Speaker 10 Notwithstanding Michelle.

Speaker 9 It doesn't happen in a racist society. It's amazing.
It doesn't.

Speaker 10 Honestly, though, have you ever seen like a First Lady in particular who is so racist?

Speaker 10 She hates white people. Her image of white people is the most negative, judgmental, nasty thing I've ever heard.

Speaker 10 She thinks all we do is look at black people with negative judgments about their hair and their dress and the way they behave.

Speaker 10 Meanwhile, it's really a case-by-case situation with blacks and whites, and she's failing it.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I think the problem is that her audience is the same group of white people I see every week at Stanford, but it's not the people at Bakersfield.

Speaker 9 Amen. Because,

Speaker 9 believe me,

Speaker 9 if people try that stuff to working-class people, whether they're Mexican-American or white or even black, they don't listen to it. They said, you're spoiled, Brad.
I don't want to hear it.

Speaker 9 I've got to get up at five. I've got to go to work.
I don't get home. I don't have anything.
You have four mansions. You're worth $100 million.

Speaker 9 You're spoiled, Brad. I don't want to hear it.
But not those people. Yes.
They hang on every word she says because they're just like her.

Speaker 10 We're going to do Michelle Obama a favor and we're going to send that clip to her to make sure she gets a hefty dose dose of reality before she goes on her next tour stop.

Speaker 9 Have you ever met Michelle?

Speaker 10 I met her one time at the White House, at the White House Christmas party. Yeah, she was perfectly pleasant.
She was probably like, Why are you looking at my hair like that?

Speaker 9 Yeah,

Speaker 10 Victor, love you. Thank you so much for all of your falls of wisdom.

Speaker 10 VDH,

Speaker 9 he's a treasure.

Speaker 10 All right, Sarah, how's my hair?

Speaker 4 Good. Fine.

Speaker 10 She's dying to come up here and fix it. I guarantee you.

Speaker 10 It's wonderful to have somebody who's paid actually just to do your hair. It's wonderful.
It's like a true gift. I do my own makeup, but Sarah does my hair.

Speaker 10 I never learned over all the years how to do my hair. You know, you never watch it.
And also, if you do watch it, ladies, you know how the brush, the round brush, my God, it's so much work.

Speaker 10 But the makeup I learned to slap slap on the face paint by following some twit online.

Speaker 9 Okay.

Speaker 10 My next guest is somebody I did not meet up until a couple months ago, but like you, I was a lifelong fan.

Speaker 10 And I've seen, I think, most of Charlie Sheen's movies, but I have never seen somebody so skilled and so compelling as when I was young and saw Charlie Sheen on screen in Wall Street.

Speaker 10 He played the simmering,

Speaker 10 angry, ambitious, tortured soul on Wall Street better than anybody I've seen live it in real life, and I lived in Manhattan for 20 years.

Speaker 10 And the fact that his dad was involved in the movie too, and that scene in the elevator with the two of them with the tensions burning, saying all the things, what I would later find out, have some parallels to his real life.

Speaker 10 He told me when we met via satellite

Speaker 10 for the release of his book and his documentary

Speaker 10 that he had fallen to fame so quickly and early on got the same lesson taught to him over and over again, which was

Speaker 10 you can get away with anything. With that face and that talent and that personality, we'll overlook anything.
And that would wind up being somewhat of a curse for Charlie Sheen. as well as a blessing.

Speaker 10 He's really profoundly interesting and he's come a long way through the tiger blood by winning years

Speaker 10 to really settle in a place of wisdom and reflection.

Speaker 10 And I think you'll soon hear Republicanism. Check it out.

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Speaker 4 I am on a drug.

Speaker 9 It's called Charlie Sheen.

Speaker 10 Charlie Sheen's life has been a wild ride.

Speaker 9 I was really hard to control. I'm by winning.

Speaker 9 I win here and I win there. That one.
I had found some different level of,

Speaker 9 I don't know what.

Speaker 10 A Hollywood legend.

Speaker 9 For so long, I was Martin Sheen's son. And, you know, Emilio Estavis' brother.
What do you care if your brother ditches school? This cameo just falls out of the sky into into my lap.

Speaker 9 I think I made a big mistake coming here.

Speaker 10 Films like Platoon, Wall Street, and The Rookie.

Speaker 9 You want to do over? No, I don't want to do over.

Speaker 10 The highest paid actor in television history as a star on the beloved sitcom Two and a Half Men.

Speaker 10 But all of that success came with challenges, addiction.

Speaker 9 You know, I got tiger blood, man.

Speaker 20 You don't worry that you're going to die when you take that many drugs.

Speaker 9 Science for fools. Drugs are undefeated.
It's like 20 million to zero.

Speaker 16 He started experimenting with

Speaker 9 everything.

Speaker 9 To get through that,

Speaker 9 you know, several times. If this is prison, the only thing that's missing is the bars and the guards.

Speaker 10 Now Charlie Sheen is eight years sober and back to tell his story his own way.

Speaker 10 You've already proven you can do all this shit to your body and still stay standing.

Speaker 9 I'm the guy that lived it and survived it, and I still don't completely know how.

Speaker 10 Please help me welcome Charlie Sheen.

Speaker 9 Thank you. Thank you.
The one and only.

Speaker 9 Is this on? Yeah, it's on. We're good.

Speaker 16 Thank you.

Speaker 10 It's so great to have you.

Speaker 10 How does it feel to be back out here in front of the masses and feel all the love?

Speaker 10 It's got to be better than crack cocaine.

Speaker 9 It's

Speaker 9 a different kind of better than crack cocaine.

Speaker 9 No,

Speaker 9 it feels fucking awesome.

Speaker 9 And

Speaker 9 wow. Thank you.
Thank you.

Speaker 10 We were talking backstage.

Speaker 10 We're both getting older. I just had a birthday.
You got a few years on me. Turned 60.

Speaker 9 I turned 60. Yeah.

Speaker 10 At 60,

Speaker 9 where are you? Happy? Well?

Speaker 10 Struggling?

Speaker 9 Working on it? Where?

Speaker 9 Yeah,

Speaker 9 that just described an entire week pretty much

Speaker 10 Monday

Speaker 9 no I I I I think I'm I think I'm happy most of the time you know I think

Speaker 9 I'm not I'm not looking for

Speaker 9 like

Speaker 9 you know in insane events or or or or circumstance to to generate happiness I think I'm finding

Speaker 9 and and you know when I say happy it's like I'm not like

Speaker 9 walking around, like,

Speaker 9 you know, cackling with laughter. That's not normal.

Speaker 9 That's not normal. I never trusted people who are like that.
Yeah, no, and I'm not, I don't have a perma smile. Yeah.
You can't trust those people.

Speaker 10 No, it reminds me of my time on the Today Show.

Speaker 9 Very jarring, very fake.

Speaker 10 Those are not happy or good people.

Speaker 9 But

Speaker 9 it's the littler things that start to matter a lot more, you know,

Speaker 9 as I go further down the road on the journey.

Speaker 9 But the 60 thing was,

Speaker 9 it was messing with my head

Speaker 9 because it was like, ah,

Speaker 9 shit, man.

Speaker 9 I spent most of my 50s apologizing to people.

Speaker 9 And that's fine, because I needed basically a decade to get through. all of those apologies.

Speaker 9 And

Speaker 9 it it was also part of the reason that

Speaker 9 really drove me to find the passion

Speaker 9 to do the book, to do the doc,

Speaker 9 and really

Speaker 9 create a moment,

Speaker 9 not really so much of a comeback, and I think we spoke about this the last time, but just more of a reset. And I wanted to

Speaker 9 just...

Speaker 9 Put all that shit behind me,

Speaker 9 but do it properly and do it in a way that was honest and noble and thorough. Yep.

Speaker 9 And, oh, thank you. Thank you.
I mean, it was thorough, all right?

Speaker 9 It was really thorough.

Speaker 10 You did lay it all out there, very bare.

Speaker 10 We talked about it when you came on, but there was the incident, which you've since clarified a little, of

Speaker 10 the crossover tour when it comes to the sexuality. Wasn't like the full crossover.

Speaker 10 It was just, it was more like playing in the sandbox as opposed to like rolling around in the sand and rolling over in the sand.

Speaker 9 Do you follow?

Speaker 9 So the sandbox, not like an entire beach.

Speaker 9 Right. Got it.

Speaker 9 Got it. Not like my own tropical island.
Yes.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 10 does that make it hard for you now? Like you've come out with that, that happened, which probably isn't that unusual for people who are super famous and super rich and have had a drug thing.

Speaker 9 If that wasn't a part of my story with

Speaker 9 how far I took it and the amount of cocaine I ingested

Speaker 9 in any means available.

Speaker 9 If that wasn't part of my story, I think people would be like, hey, wait a minute.

Speaker 9 In other, I can't say similar stories, but other examples,

Speaker 9 that's usually been

Speaker 9 one of the

Speaker 9 consistent ingredients in that recipe.

Speaker 10 The last time we were together, I asked you whether you're getting hit on non-stop now by gay men. And the answer was yes.
They're all like, I got a shot.

Speaker 10 But I forgot to ask you whether...

Speaker 9 That was a funny moment in the interview because that came early. That was like in the first five minutes, right? Yeah, yeah.
And that told me, like, okay, all right,

Speaker 9 this is cool.

Speaker 9 It's on. We're going there.
We're fucking doing this, yeah. And I'm like, well, why the hell not?

Speaker 9 I'm sorry I cut you off.

Speaker 10 No, no, no. But I forgot to ask you the other half of that, which is, you know, we saw Sean Penn in in the clip.
Sure. Nick Cage was one of your best friends.

Speaker 10 Did those guys come back to you and say, could you clarify that it was not, you know, your best friends who did the tour with you?

Speaker 9 Oh, oh, yeah, no, no, no, no. It's nobody anybody recognizes.

Speaker 9 Yeah, Jesus, man.

Speaker 9 No.

Speaker 9 All of your favorite, most of them, TV and

Speaker 9 film stars that I know know are off the hook.

Speaker 9 So, yeah,

Speaker 9 I'll just own it. But another thing that we did discuss was that

Speaker 9 I knew for so long how it felt to keep all that shit in. And also,

Speaker 9 a lot of the consequences that it brought

Speaker 9 or

Speaker 9 the target I still...

Speaker 9 presented myself as, you know, to some very

Speaker 9 nefarious types.

Speaker 10 Like you were actually being blackmailed.

Speaker 9 I was being blackmailed. I was being extorted, shaken down.
Yeah,

Speaker 9 and so there was a strategic opponent to unloading a lot of this to where

Speaker 9 I just wanted to be

Speaker 9 unextortable. You know,

Speaker 9 I think I, thank you. Yeah.
Thank you.

Speaker 9 And thank you. And

Speaker 9 Megan, I thought it would be a much bigger price to pay than

Speaker 9 what it's revealed itself to be.

Speaker 9 And

Speaker 9 that's so encouraging because that's really a leap of faith. That's like saying, all right,

Speaker 9 you know,

Speaker 9 I'm going to talk about all this stuff.

Speaker 9 And,

Speaker 9 you know, I don't know. Will you still love me? Yeah, well, you still love me.

Speaker 10 They do. I mean, those kinds of things can really restore your faith in humanity.
Right? Like, you could have named your book, This Is Me Now,

Speaker 10 and I think people would have received it just the same. Like, I think people are mature enough, and even this is like a right-leaning audience, a lot of people of faith.
Sure.

Speaker 10 You know, they may not love all the drugs and the crossover tour, though I think we're fine with that now.

Speaker 9 I'm kind of fine with that. Yeah, we're evolved.

Speaker 10 But I think

Speaker 10 they understand and love redemption.

Speaker 9 Right on. Right on.
Thank you.

Speaker 9 Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 10 But before we get to the redemption,

Speaker 9 just go back a little. Okay.

Speaker 10 You're going to skip all the fun stuff. Good.
So it seems to me in watching the doc and reading the book that the craziest pal you had was Nicholas Cage. Am I wrong?

Speaker 9 You are not wrong.

Speaker 9 Different kind of crazy.

Speaker 9 Go on. Other

Speaker 9 like extra galactically so. Oh.

Speaker 9 But but with

Speaker 9 a wisdom and

Speaker 9 a sense of humor

Speaker 9 and a devil-may care just air about him that was just, it was like

Speaker 9 poetic lava.

Speaker 9 Wow.

Speaker 9 I think he would appreciate being described as poetic lava. Yes, who wouldn't? Yeah, because lava, you know, you see it coming.
You can get away, right?

Speaker 9 I mean, it moves pretty slow, but God, it burns everything to the ground. And

Speaker 9 you sure as heck

Speaker 9 don't forget that it was there.

Speaker 9 You know, even decades later.

Speaker 9 What am I even talking about? No, we're following. What am I talking about? I'm talking about Nick Cage.

Speaker 10 Yes, we're still on Nick. Can you bring us aboard the airplane with the

Speaker 10 walkie-talkie thing that the pilot?

Speaker 9 Oh, with the with the intercom?

Speaker 10 Yeah, can we talk about how the hell that happened?

Speaker 9 It started out

Speaker 9 just as a friendly game, like a performance exercise, game, interaction

Speaker 9 with

Speaker 9 just the rest of the plane. And

Speaker 9 because there was still

Speaker 9 the curtain that separates the front from the back, you know?

Speaker 9 And so...

Speaker 9 We'd been up for a few days

Speaker 9 at that point

Speaker 9 and just kind of made the decision we're going to Vegas and

Speaker 9 I buy this like $9

Speaker 9 like Dick Tracy hat in the airport and so what were there's there's five of us that's how we became the Jackson five

Speaker 9 I mean what you right

Speaker 9 and that wasn't about music that was just about numbers because five

Speaker 9 And so no,

Speaker 9 we're on the plane, and so we were kind of using that curtain to to do like a 10-second bit and just try to get a little bit of a plane.

Speaker 10 The plane was loving this.

Speaker 9 It's Charlie Sheen and Nick Cage and Nick and others

Speaker 10 who were notable. Yes.
And you're just entertaining the plane. Can you imagine this?

Speaker 9 But it was all in just fun, you know, friendly spirit. And, you know, Eddie would point out, you know, the Grand Canyon on the left side of the airplane and the Eiffel Tower on the right.

Speaker 9 I mean, it was just silly, you know? Right, right.

Speaker 9 So

Speaker 10 in Las Vegas. What's that? That's not in Las Vegas.

Speaker 9 It's really not.

Speaker 9 Well, there's a little version of it, right? There is, actually, yeah, yeah. But things like that.

Speaker 9 And so

Speaker 9 Nick went last. And

Speaker 9 I don't know

Speaker 9 if he just didn't understand the theme of what we were going for or

Speaker 10 light-hearted fun.

Speaker 9 Yeah,

Speaker 9 he took it to a place

Speaker 9 where

Speaker 9 he grabbed the intercom and

Speaker 9 he says, ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking.

Speaker 9 I'm not feeling well.

Speaker 9 And you can hear the plane just kind of get whisper quiet, right? And people are kind of looking at each other. Is this really the captain? And he says,

Speaker 9 And

Speaker 9 I feel like I'm losing control of the airplane.

Speaker 9 And now, you know, whatever level of high or drunkenness or any of us were, we suddenly were laser focused on the amount of

Speaker 9 shit that we were in

Speaker 9 because of that.

Speaker 9 And he didn't even do the bit at the curtain. Uh-oh.

Speaker 10 So they were buying it, that it actually might be.

Speaker 9 They didn't see him doing it.

Speaker 9 That's thinking back, I think

Speaker 9 that was was part of it. That's where we went wrong.
Yes, yeah, because had he done that holding the mic,

Speaker 9 it's in poor taste, but they know it's a performance piece.

Speaker 10 Baby in bounds.

Speaker 9 Yeah, but they all they did was hear it.

Speaker 9 And you could see the flight crew like launch into panic mode, and

Speaker 9 one of the stewards like walked right up to Nick and he just goes, not cool, buddy, not cool.

Speaker 9 Yeah, and then, you know, Nick didn't,

Speaker 9 and I think I talk about this in the dock, right?

Speaker 9 And in the book, Nick didn't know that I was basically the dope mule for that trip

Speaker 9 for

Speaker 9 the Jackson 5.

Speaker 10 You really did not want to get pulled over by the cops.

Speaker 9 No,

Speaker 9 no.

Speaker 9 And

Speaker 9 I was rolling with such a fat bag of of cocaine that

Speaker 9 it wouldn't fit in any of my pockets, right?

Speaker 9 So I taped it to the inside of my thigh

Speaker 9 and tried to wear a baggier pant.

Speaker 9 And so I'm like,

Speaker 9 you know,

Speaker 9 like right in my crotch.

Speaker 9 I'm rolling with like five to ten. for distribution.

Speaker 9 And so when we landed, we were met

Speaker 9 with the feds, with local authorities, with just a bunch of frowns and ire. And yeah, it was luckily, though, this is that thing

Speaker 9 that you talked about, about consequences to a point.

Speaker 10 Yes, because they're like, this is such bullshit, this can never, oh.

Speaker 10 Oh, hello, Mr. Sheen.
Hello, Mr. Cage.
Yeah. And the turn of fortune comes to save you

Speaker 9 again. Yeah, or did it?

Speaker 10 You know, like if you if you had just gotten in like serious trouble early on, right.

Speaker 9 I don't know.

Speaker 10 Would you have gone through everything you went through?

Speaker 9 If if if the middle word in life, right? Um,

Speaker 9 I yeah, probably,

Speaker 9 probably

Speaker 10 you are resilient.

Speaker 9 I think so.

Speaker 9 You are really committed.

Speaker 10 Um, can we spend a minute talking about the prostitutes?

Speaker 9 Because you

Speaker 9 Wow.

Speaker 10 You have like this iconic line about

Speaker 10 calling up a prostitute. And I confess, my husband Doug is the one who told me about it, and I love it.
It's very funny.

Speaker 10 When somebody asked you, you know, you're Charlie Sheen. Why would you feel the need to pay for sex?

Speaker 10 And do you remember what you said?

Speaker 9 I

Speaker 9 do. And what I should have said.

Speaker 9 No, that's a terrible response. I'm not even going to, no, I'm going to let that one just keep drifting away.

Speaker 9 I said

Speaker 9 I'm not paying them

Speaker 9 to show up. Is that what I said?

Speaker 9 I'm paying them to leave. Right? And so that's...
Not paying for the sex. That's crass.

Speaker 9 That is crass and disrespectful.

Speaker 10 But illuminating for those of us not in the trade.

Speaker 9 The trade.

Speaker 9 Amazing.

Speaker 9 No, but

Speaker 9 I wish I could claim ownership of that quote because that was borrowed. Oh, from whom?

Speaker 9 I've heard different versions of it

Speaker 9 as far as

Speaker 9 the genesis of it.

Speaker 9 I'm pretty sure

Speaker 9 it's a Carrie Grant quote. Oh, oh.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 It's probably one of those quotes that nobody really wants the credit for. Right.
Yeah, so I see your point.

Speaker 10 No, because we eventually kind of went, we went, we did the prostitute circuit, and then there was a pornography, like a porn actress. And we're not even, we don't even mean a Kardashian, like actual.

Speaker 10 So, oh, you know it, and I know it.

Speaker 10 She's famous because of that sex tape, and it's never going to happen on the bar exam.

Speaker 9 Okay.

Speaker 9 I've never seen that tape.

Speaker 10 Kim Kardashian.

Speaker 9 You've never seen that tape. Oh, you've never seen that tape.
But I know what it is.

Speaker 10 Have you guys seen the Kim Kardashian sex tape?

Speaker 9 Everybody's like, ew.

Speaker 10 What do I say? There's no proper answer to that.

Speaker 10 So when you think about that stint, because you kind of graduated, I mean, by today's standards, that's all tame, by the way.

Speaker 10 You know, like what these young men are into on the internet today is like, that blows doors on any of that stuff.

Speaker 9 Wow.

Speaker 10 Like, how do you see that?

Speaker 9 Because you also had real love in your life.

Speaker 10 You had three marriages.

Speaker 9 I had three marriages.

Speaker 10 Three marriages. Denise and you seem to really love each other.

Speaker 10 Denise Richards, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

Speaker 10 And so, like, you kind of had two lanes of real love and a real partner and mothers to your children, and then you had this other low lane. Sure.

Speaker 10 So, when you think on the love and the sexual experiences of your life, did they seem dramatically far apart?

Speaker 10 Like, there were the women I loved, and then there was this other really unfortunate thing? Or how do you see it?

Speaker 9 I mean,

Speaker 9 I mean yeah I don't know if I can add to that

Speaker 9 no no I will I

Speaker 9 I

Speaker 9 I was never a cheater

Speaker 9 like I never strayed from you know any moment that I was actually married that's awesome thank you thank you

Speaker 10 especially while on drugs and all that like that's that says something about your character thank you yeah so I didn't

Speaker 9 I mean during the legal separations

Speaker 9 that was

Speaker 9 Then I knew I was kind of off the hook

Speaker 9 with that whole vow thing, right? Right.

Speaker 10 You were on a break.

Speaker 9 Yes.

Speaker 9 No,

Speaker 9 and I went into those marriages

Speaker 9 with the best intentions and

Speaker 9 the best hope for some kind of a future together.

Speaker 9 But the other thing,

Speaker 9 it just at the time, I mean, you know, I was younger and

Speaker 9 a lot of different other things going on.

Speaker 9 It was more exciting. It was more exciting.

Speaker 9 I don't know that I can present it any more insightful than that or like drill down to the core issue behind it or what it might be connected to.

Speaker 9 It was the thrill of,

Speaker 9 you know,

Speaker 9 at times, sometimes not knowing if I was going to open the door

Speaker 9 to a lovely gal or to

Speaker 9 cops.

Speaker 9 Okay. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 I don't.

Speaker 9 It sounds fascinating.

Speaker 9 Roll of the dice. Sorry, yeah.

Speaker 9 Well,

Speaker 10 I feel like, because I know, are you dating Dolly again?

Speaker 9 Is this true? No. No, not dating Dolly.

Speaker 10 If you guys read the book, Dolly is the young woman he was dating when he went to visit then Governor Bill Clinton in the Arkansas State House.

Speaker 9 And

Speaker 10 what did Bill Clinton do?

Speaker 9 He took one look at her and whispered to an aide,

Speaker 9 find out what you can about the brunette. Yeah.
Like, zeroed in on it, you know?

Speaker 9 And it was kind of like, not cool, but

Speaker 9 he's like, we have the same taste. I don't fucking know.

Speaker 9 It was kind of flattering for her.

Speaker 9 Not cool to me.

Speaker 9 You know, it's a weird place to be.

Speaker 10 Did you ever feel that special something looking at Hillary?

Speaker 9 God did not.

Speaker 9 I told no one,

Speaker 9 find out what you can.

Speaker 9 It's a no. About the blonde.

Speaker 9 So.

Speaker 10 Well, the reason I ask is because I read that you and Dolly had either renewed your friendship or possibly your relationship today. Right.
And I thought it would be very hard to be your

Speaker 10 partner in today's day and age, given the history. I feel like the performance bar would be very high, right? Like ladies, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 10 Like, I'd be like Googling the videos to be like, what's my next move?

Speaker 9 Oh, gosh.

Speaker 9 Wow. I mean, wouldn't the bar be high for me also?

Speaker 10 I think for women, they just want somebody who will listen to them. Okay.

Speaker 10 I'm not sure the bar is particularly high for.

Speaker 9 I'm a pretty good listener. There you go.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 9 No, Dolly and I reconnected because

Speaker 9 she read the book and

Speaker 9 thought it was fabulous and was really flattered and really touched by how

Speaker 9 the stories that I told about us in the book and how I told them.

Speaker 9 And in fact, there were a couple things I thought she was going to be upset with, and she wasn't. She was just so excited to be a part of it, you know.

Speaker 9 And I was like, how could you not have been a part of it?

Speaker 9 And then

Speaker 9 we just reconnected,

Speaker 9 and then just as

Speaker 9 old lovers but new friends. Yeah.

Speaker 10 Well, I mean, that's got potential, Charlie.

Speaker 9 I don't know. As the title of my next book.
Yeah.

Speaker 9 Old lovers, new friends.

Speaker 9 That sucks.

Speaker 9 I'm not buying that book.

Speaker 10 It definitely does not suck as a life theme. I don't know.
We'll get back to it. He'll get back to us on Dolly at our next tour and see how that goes.

Speaker 10 Or on somebody, because I feel like that's the next step for you now that you've been in recovery for eight years. Your kids are getting older.
Sure.

Speaker 10 Life is back on track. Thank you.
Thank you. I don't know.
I'd love to see you well settled.

Speaker 9 Yeah, no,

Speaker 9 thank you.

Speaker 9 I would like to see me settled, too.

Speaker 9 But there's no, I haven't been in a relationship for a long time. Yeah.

Speaker 9 Not since like 2018.

Speaker 10 I mean,

Speaker 10 Denise is in the news a lot.

Speaker 10 Your ex-wife. She is.
She moved on and got remarried, and she's the mother of two of your kids, your two daughters. Yeah.
Do you guys still maintain a relationship? Are you still friends?

Speaker 10 Oh, of course.

Speaker 9 Oh, that's good. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, no. She's,

Speaker 9 it's, it's, you know, we, thank you.

Speaker 9 You know, it started out hot and heavy, and then a bunch of shit happened, and then it got, you know, just kind of icky and whatever. But today, it's just like we don't really.

Speaker 9 We don't really care about any of that other shit because it's not who we are today, you know? And I feel terrible what she's going through with the current divorce stuff. It's just like, whoa.

Speaker 10 For those of you not paying attention, she was on Real Housewives. She married another man.
She has alleged that he has been physically abusive to her. He has denied it.
He

Speaker 10 accuses her of being a hoarder. It's gotten very, very ugly between the two of them.

Speaker 10 I know her just a little, and she seems like such a sweet gal, I have to say. Like, I've only been really favorably impressed by her, but of course, I wasn't married to her.

Speaker 9 No, she is. I mean,

Speaker 9 she's a Midwestern girl, you know,

Speaker 9 raised in

Speaker 9 a Christian household, you know.

Speaker 10 Well, so are you.

Speaker 9 This is true.

Speaker 10 This is true. Martin Sheen is a devout Catholic.

Speaker 9 Yeah, or as I call him in the book, a Cathaholic. Yeah.

Speaker 10 So what, like,

Speaker 9 Apple Tree?

Speaker 9 Like, what happened there?

Speaker 9 Oh, oh, the distance from it? Yeah. Malibu, China.

Speaker 9 Yeah.

Speaker 10 Because he was an actor. He is an actor, but he was in the business.
He had all the same temptations and really, really, really tried to help shepherd you back onto the

Speaker 10 good path. Sure.
But did the Catholicism not really speak to you, or what happened with you when it comes to faith and religion?

Speaker 9 I don't reject any

Speaker 9 religion per se. I just, I,

Speaker 9 uh,

Speaker 9 you know, I, I, I, I,

Speaker 9 there's just some days when,

Speaker 9 you know, I spend more time looking up.

Speaker 9 Curiously,

Speaker 9 I spend more time looking up these days than I do looking down.

Speaker 10 Does that make sense? Yes, thank God.

Speaker 9 Yeah.

Speaker 9 And, um, and people are like, well, well, do you believe in God? And I'm like, well, yeah, the things I believe in, I don't have a better word

Speaker 9 to attach to those feelings and those beliefs and just

Speaker 9 that hope. I don't have a better word than God.

Speaker 9 You know, I'm not

Speaker 9 mother universe.

Speaker 9 I can't do that stuff, you know.

Speaker 9 So,

Speaker 9 yeah,

Speaker 9 but that's just a part that I've kind of never, it's not like, I don't want to talk about that. I've just never really explored it.

Speaker 9 But I can't say, I can say, I've been very close to it for a very long time.

Speaker 9 You know, it's like something kept my heart beating.

Speaker 10 Yes, something kept my heart beating. There's no way you came through that on your own.
It's like...

Speaker 9 Thank you.

Speaker 9 I don't run any part of this show.

Speaker 9 You know what I'm saying? This particular show? No, no, no, just the overall scheme of life.

Speaker 9 I went too far.

Speaker 9 I don't run any part of

Speaker 9 my journey other than the stuff that I navigate that's right in front of me, other than the stuff that's actually tangible and requires my involvement and attention and input.

Speaker 9 You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Just as far as the bigger picture, I don't really,

Speaker 9 I'm sure there were times when I thought I was in control of much bigger things, but nope.

Speaker 10 You've been humbled. No.

Speaker 10 So your dad is very outspoken about his politics. He is.
Not a Trump fan.

Speaker 9 No, but his timing on that thing was really shitty, man.

Speaker 9 And I told him so,

Speaker 9 but then I had to take a step back and we'd just gone through that whole thing with Kimmel, with the freedom of speech, right? And so

Speaker 9 I was like, yeah, yeah, okay, no, own that.

Speaker 9 You know, because it's the unpleasant things that we have to grant freedom to as well, right? Unless they're threats or like that.

Speaker 9 But I was like, dad, the timing. The timing, man,

Speaker 9 you gotta read the room, you know? Right. Because he's a he,

Speaker 9 he brokers the peace deal and the entire universe is celebrating and dad's with Nicole Wallace.

Speaker 9 Oh. Yeah, and I was like...

Speaker 10 Just threw up in my mouth a little.

Speaker 9 Again, though,

Speaker 9 again,

Speaker 9 you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 9 Free to express

Speaker 9 how he felt, but he could have done that like on Wednesday. Right.

Speaker 10 You know? Not when we just created peace in the Middle East. So how about you?

Speaker 9 Just that. Are you? Just that.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 Are you getting more comfortable with your politics and expressing them?

Speaker 9 I am.

Speaker 9 And

Speaker 9 it's,

Speaker 9 I think I talked to you about this early on.

Speaker 9 It just,

Speaker 9 I had to feel something different.

Speaker 9 Because,

Speaker 9 you know, I think we all, or a lot of us, remain beholden to the structure,

Speaker 9 you know,

Speaker 9 the structure of the house that we were raised in, with politics, with religion, with the arts, with culture. It's just that, you know, those are our early influences.
And so

Speaker 9 that's just all I knew growing up, you know, and it was like the good guys and the bad guys. And

Speaker 9 yeah, okay, for a while, but then,

Speaker 9 you know,

Speaker 9 I've paid the most taxes of anybody in my fucking family.

Speaker 10 So... That'll do it.
Yeah.

Speaker 9 What I couldn't do, because I was about to do the dock and start the book while at the same time,

Speaker 9 you know,

Speaker 9 trying to bring an NA beer

Speaker 9 to the public, you know, with Wild AF.

Speaker 9 And we have, it's currently shipping.

Speaker 9 Nice.

Speaker 9 So

Speaker 9 I said there's no way I can tackle any of this with the kind of just focus

Speaker 9 and motivation, determination, if I feel like I did during Trump's first term, right?

Speaker 9 And I thought, okay, okay.

Speaker 9 How do I not feel? Because I was not going to go to bed every night feeling fucking hopeless. I was not going to go to bed every night being told things were,

Speaker 9 you know, the catastrophic. Catastrophic, yeah, the end is nigh.

Speaker 9 And I thought, all right, I'm going to conduct an experiment, literally.

Speaker 9 I'm going to change the channel.

Speaker 9 I'm going to do my own research like I've done with everything my entire life.

Speaker 9 I'm going to listen to other voices.

Speaker 9 Thank you.

Speaker 9 I'm going to explore.

Speaker 9 I'm going to explore just

Speaker 9 hearing both sides of the goddamn story. You know, because what I was

Speaker 9 so hypnotized by

Speaker 9 in some ways can be described as state-run media. I'm sorry, but it can.
Legacy media is very much like that. And I said, okay, all right, enough of that.
Enough of that.

Speaker 9 I'm going to change the channel, hear some different voices, and do the research. And the that I discovered and the things that I started to really

Speaker 9 unearth,

Speaker 9 you know, it was just, it was not just one of those moments, it was like months of those moments of, oh my gosh. Yeah.
And I felt really stupid. I don't have a fancier way to describe it.

Speaker 9 I felt really stupid. Yeah.
Just some of the stuff I'd bought into and some of the stuff I was worshiping and some of the people I was hating because I was told I was supposed to hate them. You know?

Speaker 9 Yeah. We've been there.
And I'm just like,

Speaker 9 this doesn't.

Speaker 9 And I wanted to feel better for my health, for my mental health, for my physical health, just for my ability to, you know, interact with my kids just, you know,

Speaker 9 in a healthier capacity, right?

Speaker 9 And so

Speaker 9 I was like, yeah.

Speaker 9 All right, fuck it. I'm going to root for this.
I'm going to see how that feels, right?

Speaker 10 yes and so when you walked into the ballot box and voted for Trump how did that feel well you see that's a

Speaker 9 that's a detail

Speaker 9 you know that's another one of those examples where you feel stupid you know

Speaker 9 no I was still kind of still in that other side of the

Speaker 9 yeah but you know it's it's a it's a vote I'd like to have back but that's all right did you actually vote for Kamala Harris

Speaker 10 Oh my God.

Speaker 10 And you were, that was in your sober period.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I know.

Speaker 9 I know.

Speaker 9 I know.

Speaker 9 We forgive you. Thank you.

Speaker 9 No, there was, again,

Speaker 9 it's the things you're paying attention to and the people that you respect that you're listening to, and it's all kind of turns into this.

Speaker 10 Do you feel, is this risky for you at all? Of course it is.

Speaker 9 Right?

Speaker 10 Because you're a very famous actor. But, you know, like, to get more roles, I think generally you have to be a Democrat.

Speaker 9 If that's the case,

Speaker 9 I hope this beer is a giant success.

Speaker 10 Yes.

Speaker 9 No,

Speaker 9 I don't think that that represents any freedom of expression or freedom of choice or freedom of sanity. Freedom of sanity.
How about that?

Speaker 9 No, I,

Speaker 9 you know, and and

Speaker 9 of course, you know, some of the stuff you were talking about earlier about,

Speaker 9 God, this brilliant, this brilliant thing that you discussed about,

Speaker 9 you know, during the during the run-up, during the campaign, during like all this, it was like, it felt so much more exciting, you know.

Speaker 9 But I think, I,

Speaker 9 I think, I think, I think things are still going to be okay. I really do.
I really do.

Speaker 9 Because.

Speaker 9 Yeah, why?

Speaker 9 Because as long as they never look anything

Speaker 9 like that dumpster fire that

Speaker 9 I was finally able to kind of push back down the alley,

Speaker 9 as long as they don't look like that,

Speaker 9 I'm hopeful.

Speaker 10 Wait, what do you mean I'm not following? Are you talking about your own life experience here, or are you talking about Kamala Harris?

Speaker 9 I'm talking about the party that I'm not, that I had to,

Speaker 9 I had to part ways with.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I had to.

Speaker 9 I mean, no, but Megan,

Speaker 9 I stuck it out as long as I possibly could. Yes.
But, you know, now I don't have

Speaker 9 a brain full of cocaine and a bedroom full of prostitutes.

Speaker 10 You see things much more clearly now.

Speaker 9 Yes.

Speaker 10 Welcome to the party.

Speaker 9 Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 10 The party of sanity.

Speaker 9 But that said,

Speaker 9 that said,

Speaker 9 it's still interesting to now,

Speaker 9 you know, see some of the stuff that's going on that I think a lot of us are

Speaker 9 concerned with.

Speaker 9 And what, what's bothering me? Like a lot of the infighting. Like, you know, like a lot of the stuff that just doesn't feel unifying in a time when there's so much at stake.
Yeah.

Speaker 9 There is so much at stake.

Speaker 10 I know. I feel it too.
And I get drawn into it, and then I try to step back from it, and I get mad. I have fights with people on Twitter.

Speaker 10 Half the time, I'm just like, I'm fighting because I feel like they think I won't fight, so I fight because I want to remind them that they can't push me around.

Speaker 9 Right, yes.

Speaker 10 Then the other half, I say nothing because I always, what I've learned at age 55 is finally, I will decide when I'm in a fight. I will decide when I'm in a fight.

Speaker 10 The left-wing media, the dishonest smear merchants will not decide when I am in a fight or a controversy. I will decide.

Speaker 9 I love that.

Speaker 9 I love that.

Speaker 10 So, what about acting again? Because I think we'd love to see you in a major role.

Speaker 9 Thank you.

Speaker 9 Do you feel ready for that?

Speaker 9 Absolutely, because what I've kind of been sharing with people is like all this attention and all this love and

Speaker 9 like, you know, welcome back

Speaker 9 to life, man.

Speaker 9 Just, you know, just open arms everywhere.

Speaker 9 And I haven't even still yet done

Speaker 9 my job, like the thing I'm known for. I haven't even done that yet.

Speaker 9 And the response I'm getting

Speaker 9 is incredible.

Speaker 10 Well, this is a function of being rich, right?

Speaker 10 I think most people would have had to go back out and work already, but you must still have a lot of the money that you earn, no?

Speaker 9 How much time do we have tonight?

Speaker 9 No, I don't, I don't,

Speaker 9 I'm very fortunate and I'm going to remind myself of that every day.

Speaker 9 It doesn't, you know, maybe I'm not living where I think I deserve to be living or have the, you know, the things I think I deserve. No, but I have nothing to complain about, you know,

Speaker 9 and just have to remind myself of that. I have no food insecurity.
I have no shelter insecurity. You know, I I don't, and

Speaker 9 yeah, and that's a reason why I don't offer my opinion about

Speaker 9 things

Speaker 9 that affect people in that way. Yeah.
Because my opinion is useless

Speaker 9 in those scenarios.

Speaker 10 I have to say, though, as much as I think we'd all love to see you on the big screen or the little screen, no one wants that to come at the expense of your sobriety. And, right? We don't.

Speaker 9 Yeah, no, of course not. No.

Speaker 9 Thank you.

Speaker 9 No, and I know it was only a couple of months ago, but you like very lovingly

Speaker 9 and compassionate really touched me when your closing message in our

Speaker 9 satellite session together

Speaker 9 was don't die. Yeah.

Speaker 10 So. No, truly, I do not want

Speaker 10 him to be the next Matthew Perry.

Speaker 10 And for me to be doing the show and to say we knew him and we loved him and we had such hope for him and adored him and we lost him to a fucking drug. We don't want that.
It was awful.

Speaker 9 Don't let that happen. Yeah.

Speaker 9 And what I was going to say is I know it's only been a couple of months, but so far I kept my word.

Speaker 10 Yes, I believe in you.

Speaker 9 We all believe in you.

Speaker 9 But I definitely, I want to be back on television. I want to be back on the big screen.
I want to be back in people's living rooms.

Speaker 9 I want to be just engaged in that thing again because I'm at a place where

Speaker 9 it's going to matter to me for different reasons and

Speaker 9 this time for all the right reasons.

Speaker 10 Yes. You know? I don't know, Charlie.
I feel like you need it and we need it too. Oh, right, I know.
I think it's the final piece of the redemption arc. That plus the lady

Speaker 10 plus voting for J.D. Vance, and then we can put a bow on it.
Right? Right? And then I think we're good to go. But listen, we're rooting for you.
We love you. Thank you.
We're really grateful to you.

Speaker 10 Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 9 Thank you for having me.

Speaker 9 I'm aware.

Speaker 10 Best of luck with everything.

Speaker 23 Thank you. Oh, my God.
I don't think

Speaker 16 you know what I'm doing.

Speaker 9 Charlie Sheen, everybody. Thank you very much.

Speaker 9 Thank you.

Speaker 10 Thank you.

Speaker 9 Don't you love him?

Speaker 10 And I love you so much.

Speaker 10 We'll talk to you tomorrow on the show. We'll talk to you on Monday.
Please stay in touch and keep listening. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly Show: No BS, No Agenda, and No Fear.

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