Lawfare 2.0 Fighting Trump, and Sparring with Newsom, with Charlie Kirk, and Former Female Athlete Speaks Out | Ep. 1029

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Speaker 12 Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Midn East.

Speaker 12 Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show.

Speaker 12 We are starting to see the signs of Trump Lawfare 2.0 as the new administration battles with multiple left-wing judges, but one in particular, over the team, the Trump team's authority to deport gang members.

Speaker 12 I mean, okay, we're talking about Venezuelan gang members, and this apparently is the hill the left wants to die on.

Speaker 12 The White House says the deportation flights will continue and that they will win this fight all while the media melts down. And Gavin Newsom's been busy podcasting.

Speaker 12 I mean, you know, like your state, parts of it, large parts of it remain in ashes. Maybe you should be governing, but instead he wants to do what I do, which is fine.
It's fun.

Speaker 12 But, you know, they elected him to do a different job.

Speaker 12 And he's trying to figure out how Trump crushed his party last November. He's talking with some of the biggest names in MAGA world.

Speaker 12 His first guest earlier this month was Charlie Kirk, the founder of Turning Point USA and host of the Charlie Kirk show.

Speaker 12 And he happens to be our guest today as well.

Speaker 12 Aren't you tired of the corporate media prioritizing certain narratives over the facts?

Speaker 12 I was too, and that's why we started this show, to have real conversations full of tough questions to get to the truth.

Speaker 12 And it's also why I want to tell you about Ground News, an independent app and website website not at the mercy of corporate control.

Speaker 12 They prioritize transparency so you can compare coverage on any issue and think for yourself instead of letting someone else think for you.

Speaker 12 They even show important stories that the other side is ignoring. Go to groundnews.com slash Megan to see it all in action.

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Speaker 12 That's G-R-O-U-N-Dnews.com/slash Megan to invest in your ability to think critically about the news.

Speaker 12 Charlie, welcome back. How are you doing?

Speaker 13 Thanks, Megan. I'm doing great.
Great to be here. Thank you.

Speaker 12 Awesome. Okay, let's talk about this Judge Boesberg

Speaker 12 of the DC court, the federal district court, who is all over Trump on these deportations of the Trend de Aragua suspected gang members. Trump says these are gang members.

Speaker 12 Tom Holman says they're gang members. We've done our homework.
That's who they are. And we are shipping them out of the country

Speaker 12 with a ride.

Speaker 12 I mean, we're being courteous to them, giving them a ride, although it ends in El Salvador to prison, which is generally where gang members wind up, whether it's domestically or internationally.

Speaker 12 And this judge is losing his mind that Trump is not doing everything he's commanding him to do. And this is the closest thing we've seen yet to a constitutional crisis.

Speaker 12 You know how the left has been throwing that term around. And it's not because of Trump.
It's because of a judge who thinks he's the president.

Speaker 12 This Judge Bozberg is speaking to Donald Trump as though he's the judge's underling, his clerk who needs to run around answering the judges every little question. This is foreign policy.

Speaker 12 And he like that, this is where Trump is at the apex of his power, which Judge Boseberg doesn't seem to understand. I just want to give you

Speaker 12 a little overview of what Julie Kelly, so great on the J6 cases, reported happened inside the hearing yesterday,

Speaker 12 where Bozberg, who had said to Trump on Saturday, do not send those planes to El Salvador,

Speaker 12 any remaining planes, and the ones that are in the air, turn them around and bring them back to the United States. Well, that didn't happen with the three planes.

Speaker 12 The Trump administration is saying, look, They were in the air and we're not turning planes around mid-air when they're out of U.S. airspace to come back to the U.S.

Speaker 12 Stephen Miller pointing out yesterday, did the judge have any idea how much fuel was in the planes?

Speaker 12 Did he have any idea what the flight time was of the crew on board and whether that was safe for them to do to turn it around? Like, this is so out of order what the judge is doing.

Speaker 12 And with the third flight, that's the one we're not sure whether that took flight after the judge ordered it not to. Whatever.

Speaker 12 All of this is extrajudicial behavior because the Alien Enemies Act says he doesn't get to review presidential declarations under that act. All right, so that's that's where we are.

Speaker 12 But let me just give you a little feel for what Julie Kelly says happened yesterday. She writes, this is 16 hours ago.

Speaker 12 Hearing now underway in Judge Bozberg's courtroom on his nationwide temporary restraining order related to the president's March 15th proclamation invoking the Alien Enemies Act.

Speaker 12 Bozberg acted within hours of a lawsuit filed by the ACLU on behalf of five suspected Venezuelan terrorists. By the way, Trump did not deport those five.

Speaker 12 He listened to the judge and said, all right, we can hash it out over those five, but these others, they're going.

Speaker 12 Bozberg, I've scheduled this hearing for fact-finding on the government's response to my order. We're focusing on a timeline involved.
I want to get a sense of the numbers.

Speaker 12 I just want facts, not planning to issue any ruling about the government's conduct. Yes.
The DOJ, if it's still true that the five individual plaintiffs are in the U.S., DOJ says yes.

Speaker 12 How many planes departed the U.S. on Saturday under the proclamation? DOJ says flights complied with his order but won't disclose more.
Bozberg, to anyone, including me? DOJ, yes.

Speaker 12 Bozberg, based on what? DOJ cites national security concerns and flight patterns. Bozberg, you're saying it's classified? I can receive classified information.

Speaker 12 Okay, then he goes on. Here's a list of questions I want answered, and you can tell me why you won't give me these answered.
And the deadline to answer is noon today, Tuesday.

Speaker 12 How many planes left at any time Saturday based solely on the proclamation by President Trump? How many people were on each plane? In what country did the planes land? What time did they take off?

Speaker 12 What time did they land? When were they in airspace? What time were individuals on the plane transferred to custody?

Speaker 12 Now he asked the ACLU if they have any questions that they want answered by the Trump administration. So the ACLU is now directing our foreign policy about these flights.
Julie Kelly continues.

Speaker 12 There are three flights at issue. Two, and she's, I think she's

Speaker 12 repeating what the judge was saying. There are three flights at issue, two that left before, no, sorry, this is her.
Two that left before any written order

Speaker 12 and that the DOJ says did not include individuals covered under the Alien Enemies Act, and one that might have departed after Bozberg's minute order posted on 7:30 a Saturday.

Speaker 12 ACLU wants a sworn statement that the third flight did not include illegals covered by Trump's proclamation.

Speaker 12 Bozberg tells DOJ he will order the government to file a sworn statement as to the third flight. The ACLU is in charge of foreign policy, Bozberg.

Speaker 12 Now you can tell me why the other two flights complied with my order. How? How did they comply with my order? DOJ again argues Bozberg's oral statement during the March 15th, 5 p.m.

Speaker 12 hearing was not controlling that this order went into effect once it was posted on the docket.

Speaker 12 They're trying to say the flights may have taken off after the oral ruling that they shouldn't take off, but

Speaker 12 I'm trying to get this right. He issued the oral ruling, and they're saying that wasn't,

Speaker 12 that didn't control. What controlled was the written minute order that posted.
And these flights took off before the written order was posted. But they're also arguing

Speaker 12 at the same

Speaker 12 other side of the mouth, you didn't have the authority to issue this order anyway. Here we go.
I'm almost getting to you, Charlie. Standby.

Speaker 12 Bozberg's now agitated that his verbal direction to return the planes during the hearing is not considered controlling.

Speaker 12 Bozberg's now saying the DOJ should not have allowed any planes to take off on Saturday at all because the DOJ knew Bozberg would be holding a hearing at 5 p.m.

Speaker 12 And Bozberg's first minute order related only to the first, the five illegal plaintiffs.

Speaker 12 Bozberg's saying the Trump administration should not have executed the president's order because bosberg was going to hold a hearing that evening and maybe stop the government from deporting under the alien enemies act

Speaker 12 okay that's where we'll kick it off today what what is happening here and your reaction to this judge I mean, there is so much to unpack.

Speaker 13 And Megan, what a wonderful intro. And I'm really happy to be able to comment on this.

Speaker 13 First and foremost, I encourage everyone in your audience to check out Stephen Miller's about 10-minute masterclass that he had on CNN the other day. It was where he was going through point by point.

Speaker 13 It was a 10. And Stephen is a dear friend, and we've worked together on a lot of different stuff.
And I don't pump up him unless he's really, you know, hit it.

Speaker 13 I mean, it was one of the most effective cable news segments. And the CNN host, I mean, she had no idea what was going on.
But essentially, to distill it and then to add some additional commentary.

Speaker 13 What we have seen over the last 40 years, especially, but over the last hundred years, is the concentration concentration of power in Washington, D.C.

Speaker 13 is largely vested in the unelected bureaucracy and the unelected judiciary. This is against the Founding Fathers' original intent and design.

Speaker 13 The Founding Fathers never put in to the original framework, this idea of a fourth branch of government. We are seeing that finally, finally be criticized.
That's what Doge is doing.

Speaker 13 And you see how the left is losing their mind. They're firebombing Tesla dealerships.

Speaker 13 They're saying that, you know, Elon Musk is a dictator because he dares to go after this unconstitutional idea that there needs to be this unelected, unaccountable branch of government with nearly unlimited amounts of power.

Speaker 13 Okay, this is now the second part what we're seeing, and both simultaneously are animating the activist left, which is, well, what if we also challenge the power of the unelected judiciary?

Speaker 13 This is not judiciable. Judiciable, and which meaning anything that happens overseas when it conducts foreign policy, a district court judge does not have jurisdiction over.

Speaker 13 He can try to invent some ways while he does, but the ramifications of this could directly impair national security.

Speaker 13 I could go through dozens of individual types of movements or actions that a president has done over the last 20, 30 years that, God forbid, a district court judge would get involved with.

Speaker 13 One that was very high profile during President Trump is when he took out the head of ISIS, widely celebrated by both Republicans and Democrats.

Speaker 13 Remember, President Trump said he died like a dog and, you know, he was screaming. And what if a district court judge would have enjoined and said, you know what, actually, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 13 There was al-Baghdad, exactly. And there was also Salamani from Iran, but you're exactly right.
Al-Baghdad.

Speaker 13 What if a district court judge would have enjoined President Trump's ability to use American troops to go after the head of ISIS, saying, you know what?

Speaker 13 I want to learn more about actually who these troops are. I want to know the intelligence.
I want to know really what's going on here.

Speaker 13 I mean, this is so outrageous to anybody that understands how American foreign policy must operate. Secondly, that the Constitution is very clear.

Speaker 13 This is an Article II question, that all authority when it comes to foreign policy vests in a

Speaker 13 commander in chief. That is the President of the United States.

Speaker 13 And I want to give a lot of credit to Stephen Miller and Susie Wiles and the White House team because they really thought this one through.

Speaker 13 You see the kind of shallow analysis is, oh, the White House is moving so fast. They don't know what they're doing.
No, no, no, no. You look at how well prepared they have been for this.

Speaker 13 They picked the right fight. They wanted this one to go to the White House.
Think of all the criteria that they were able to isolate here. Trende Aragua.

Speaker 13 So every single one of these were people that were members of Trende Aragua,

Speaker 13 which was mentioned and actually categorized even under Joe Biden as a foreign. operative word, a foreign terrorist organization from the Venezuelan government.
That is number one.

Speaker 13 Number two, it involves foreign policy. So a district court judge absolutely does not have jurisdiction over it.

Speaker 13 And number three, which I think is so incredibly important, is that they then domiciled the terrorists in a foreign country.

Speaker 13 And President Bukele, who is awesome, by the way, is literally like laughing at this district court judge. Like, yeah, you don't have jurisdiction over here.
You don't have sovereignty here.

Speaker 13 You see, typically the left, they made a big mistake here. The ACLU made a huge mistake.
They took the bait. They said, oh, my goodness, the president is invoking a 200-year-old law.
Well, time out.

Speaker 13 The Constitution is over 200 years old. So I don't know exactly what they're getting at here, but they took the bait.
They rushed into court. They sued.

Speaker 13 They said, oh, these murderers and these rapists, we have to make sure that they stay in America. When in reality,

Speaker 13 they thought they were getting President Trump and his administration to stop what they were doing. The Trump administration likely, I'm saying this just as a gut instinct.

Speaker 13 I don't have this on first-person authority, but I know the players involved and how sophisticated they are.

Speaker 13 They likely wanted the ACLU to sue on this particular matter, to have this eventually appeal to the Supreme Court and get a declarative final judgment.

Speaker 13 And this is the final point I want to make on this, Megan, which is we talk frequently about how we finally have a southern border, right? Border crossings are down 95 to 99%. We're finally seeing it.

Speaker 13 One of the reasons why that's possible is because the first couple years of Trump 1 was spent in the courts actually

Speaker 13 putting Remain in Mexico through the courts and getting a declarative decision at the Supreme Court. putting

Speaker 13 all the different pandemic related emergency measures, working through the legal ramifications of what it means to actually have a southern border. That was done during Trump 1.

Speaker 13 Now during Trump 2, we're going through the same legal ramifications of actually being able to deport foreign nationals from our land who are terrorists, the worst of the worst.

Speaker 13 So credit to the Trump White House team. This judge is completely out of control.
Remember, this judge is married to a radical left-wing lunatic.

Speaker 13 Secondly, also gave a slap on the risk of Kevin Kleinsmith. You might remember that during all the Russia gate FBI FISA court stuff.
This judge is an Obama appointee, is no good.

Speaker 13 And I'm so thrilled that the Trump administration is holding the line here to set a proper precedent that no district court judge should interfere with the president of the United States' ability to execute and perform foreign policy.

Speaker 12 It's amazing when you think Joe Biden opened the southern border and said, come on in, facilitated the millions, literally millions of illegals, including illegal gang members who would commit murder in the United States.

Speaker 12 Come on in. And now as Trump is trying to correct what Joe Biden did, starting with the worst of the worst,

Speaker 12 the people who not only broke our laws to enter the country, but actually broke our laws once here by engaging in gang activity or murder or rape, et cetera. That's where he's beginning the efforts.

Speaker 12 That now we've got the ACLU involved. Now we've got the left filing legal challenges to slow it down.
This is the hill they want to die on. Don't deport Venezuelan gang members.

Speaker 12 They have the right to stay here. They have the right to clog up our courts with person-by-person hearings to decide whether they're deportable.

Speaker 12 As opposed to, there's no question that if stopped while trying to sneak across the border, we could have just kicked them out immediately, turned them around immediately and said, get the hell out of here.

Speaker 12 But because Joe Biden let them in, let them commit crimes inside the United States, now we're pretending like they have additional rights where they can go through a bunch of hearings in front of a D.C.

Speaker 12 district court judge. And the D.C.
district court judge is playing along like, well, it could just be a bunch of Americans who Tom Holman is confused about, who need my protection as this D.C.

Speaker 12 federal district court judge. And here's just one more thing of the Julie Kelly

Speaker 12 thread yesterday. She writes, Bozberg, Judge Boesberg and the DOJ are now arguing over the court's jurisdiction over international waters and airspace.

Speaker 12 Bozberg keeps interrupting DOJ and insisting he has the ultimate authority.

Speaker 12 Quote, isn't it a better course to return the planes to the United States and figure out a better course instead of we will do whatever we want?

Speaker 12 He says Trump administration's only relief is to appeal his order, not ignore it. There is no evidence that that is the case, she writes.

Speaker 12 She was quoting him here. I'm just asking how my equitable powers do not attach to that plane after it left the United States.
DOJ citing presidential military and foreign diplomatic authority.

Speaker 12 Boesberg, you're saying the president has extra powers over a plane once it leaves the United States?

Speaker 12 I think my equitable powers are pretty clear that they don't end at the water's edge or airspace edge.

Speaker 12 These are interesting questions to have on a set of facts, which is what I was hoping to get to today.

Speaker 12 He literally thinks he has the the power to take U.S. planes

Speaker 12 being conducted by the military, leaving the United States with people designated terrorists by the President of the United States and his top emissaries, that he can tell them they must turn those planes around when they're in international airspace and bring these criminals back to America, Charlie.

Speaker 13 And

Speaker 13 a couple thoughts on this. Number one, if President Trump would not have defeated Hillary Clinton in 2017, you would have an entire Supreme Court composed of people like this.

Speaker 13 And I hope everyone in your audience takes a moment to really reflect on that. This is the predominant view of the Democrat Party.
The Democrat Party relies on

Speaker 13 unelected non-democratic sources of power to be able to continue their ideological campaign against the American people.

Speaker 13 Even though they do it in the name of democracy, it's all about unelected bureaucrats

Speaker 13 and the federal government and then unelected judiciary. Secondly,

Speaker 13 I'm glad the Trump administration is taking this posture. This judge himself thinks so highly of his ability as a district court judge that he's saying, well, of course I can conduct things overseas.

Speaker 13 Imagine the precedent here.

Speaker 13 The precedent would be that if the president of the United States, like for example, the president yesterday mobilized three aircraft carriers to defend shipping lanes outside of Iran.

Speaker 13 Is he allowed to do that? Is that going to be enjoined?

Speaker 13 And of course, a more light-hearted one, is some judge going to say, you know what, actually, you have to return the two astronauts back to the space station because I have to find out exactly why you sent the rock.

Speaker 13 Is SpaceX making money?

Speaker 13 Does my jurisdiction go into orbit? I mean, does a district court judge, is a district court judge allowed to get involved in satellite movements?

Speaker 13 I mean, at some point, you have to ask the question, who is in charge? And the founding fathers answered this question very crisply.

Speaker 13 They answered it with great profundity and wisdom. The American people are in charge, and their proxy is the president.
The proxy is the president of the United States when it comes to all

Speaker 13 foreign policy decisions.

Speaker 12 When it comes to that, I debated this with Glenn Greenwald yesterday. There is a check on the president's exercise of power, and it's called impeachment.

Speaker 12 If the president has overstepped the bounds of Article II, then he can be impeached by the Article I branch, and that's the U.S. Congress.
They're not doing that.

Speaker 12 You may be saying, well, those are Republicans who are never going to impeach him. The audience may be thinking that, well, that's too bad.

Speaker 12 That's the way the founders set it up. If he does something egregious enough, something absolutely horrible,

Speaker 12 if Trump completely misused his powers, started executing U.S. citizens, I bet he would be impeached, even by a Republican House.
That's not what's happening here.

Speaker 12 And so there is a remedy, but the founders did not see fit to allow an Article III judge who has absolutely zero authority when it comes to foreign policy to second guess the commander-in-chief's wartime powers.

Speaker 12 And no, we're not at war the way we were in World War II.

Speaker 12 But the president is saying, and Stephen Miller was saying in that segment yesterday, which we have a clip of, which was amazing and well worth your time to watch all 10 minutes,

Speaker 12 that all three

Speaker 12 pieces of the Alien Enemies Act allow the president to act here.

Speaker 12 Yes, there has been a war declared on the United States by these countries, he said, including Venezuela when it comes to their gangs, and they've committed an invasion, and there's been something less than an invasion, an incursion on the territory of the United States, all three of which would activate the Alien Enemies Act, which allows the president to do this.

Speaker 12 Here's a little bit of the Stephen Miller-Cassie Hunt exchange yesterday. It's not 11.
Masterclass. You're not hearing me and you're not understanding me.

Speaker 12 Read the statute. Alien Enemies Act 1798.
It says if a predatory incursion is perpetrated by a foreign government, so it lists

Speaker 12 three qualifying actions. It would be an act of war.
It does say in the very beginning there has to be a declared war against a nation or a state. That's what it says.
Nope. Wrong.

Speaker 12 Look up the statute. It's on my account on social media.
It's usually where we found it.

Speaker 12 It says, or a predatory incursion, or an invasion. The statute delineates three criteria for triggering the Elliott Enemies Act.

Speaker 12 A district court judge can no more enjoin the expulsion of foreign terrorists to foreign soil than he can direct the movement of air force one than he can direct the movement of an aircraft carrier

Speaker 12 it was amazing and what was what was especially great about it was what is it steve is it cassie or casey i don't actually i i don't we've talked about this person before but oh casey okay it's casey but she i mean look

Speaker 12 She was too dumb to get it. I'm just going to say it.

Speaker 12 She was not smart enough to handle the truth bombs that Stephen Miller was unleashing. No, she can't handle it.
No, and you could see it.

Speaker 12 She just, every moment of the thing was her attempting to do a gotcha. But are we at war? Are we at war with Venezuela? Are we, Stephen?

Speaker 12 It's like, he was so far out of her league, he kept trying to explain it to her. She couldn't quite grasp it.
She was just looking for her gotcha moment, and she couldn't get there.

Speaker 13 She obviously had a producer or two in her ear trying to keep up with Stephen Miller because that's about how smart Stephen Miller is.

Speaker 13 It takes about like four liberal women producers at CNN to be even able to be competitive with Stephen Miller. And they couldn't even get it right.

Speaker 13 They couldn't even get it right because they couldn't even read the sentence.

Speaker 13 And Stephen made an incredibly important point here, which is, and I don't, it wasn't in that piece of tape, which is that the president does not even need to acknowledge this district court decision.

Speaker 13 Yeah, the Supreme Court will rule on it eventually, but

Speaker 13 it is well settled in American law that anything that comes to foreign policy is directly under the present United States.

Speaker 13 We did not doubt, for example, that Joe Biden had the ability to do a disastrous withdrawal of Afghanistan. We hated what he did.
We hated how he did it, but he has that power.

Speaker 13 I mean, it's very simple. He could do it.
And I want to just get back to this point, though, that

Speaker 13 the very cheerleaders for democracy, you notice they don't talk about threats to democracy very much anymore. They've kind of silenced on that entire talking point the last six months.

Speaker 13 But the very people that are saying that they're for democracy are now wanting unelected institutions to slow down the will of the American people and to completely stop it.

Speaker 13 Their goal is to try to throw sand in the gears. Right now, we have a record amount of injunctions.
If you want to know my greatest concern about Trump 2.0, it is not the sophistication of his staff.

Speaker 13 It is amazing versus Trump 1.0. I mean, the president, he just looks so centered and composed and happy.
Seeing him at at the Kennedy Center, I mean, he's in rare form. His staff is phenomenal.

Speaker 13 They are, they are, they're executing on every element and every item.

Speaker 13 No, my greatest concern is that their ambitious plans to deliver on the promises that the president made for the American people and that they are helping to put into practice will not be possible because a group of people in black robes that nobody voted for are going to make this go piece by piece and bit by bit.

Speaker 13 And yes, we do have the U.S. Supreme Court.
And again, praise the Lord that President Trump was able to get three Supreme Court

Speaker 13 justices, two of them pretty good, one of them is suspicious. But I think even Amy Coney Barrett, despite her recent,

Speaker 13 you know, let's just say posturing, is going to rule favorably on this. And again, the big takeaway is

Speaker 13 the slowdown of the Trump administration and everything from Doge to the southern border. And then eventually these district court judges are imagine President Trump talking to Vladimir Putin.

Speaker 13 It's going to break the internet. Everyone's going to be talking about it.

Speaker 13 Can a district court judge say, you know what? Actually, Russia and Ukraine, the war must continue. Actually, the Israel-Gaza conflict must continue.

Speaker 13 This is the exact same thing that we are talking about here. It has to deal with matters of foreign policy and enemy invasion, and a law is on the books.

Speaker 13 And it is worth repeating that, you know, they say it's this 200-year-old law. But what they're really getting at is that that which is old must be discarded.

Speaker 13 You see, we as conservatives believe that that which is old and that which lasts is actually beautiful and worthy of studying because it's a reflection of human nature.

Speaker 13 And even though the times change, human nature does not change. That's why the Constitution is the longest lasting political document of its kind.
Because it was not

Speaker 13 before the times, it was written to stand the test of time.

Speaker 12 The other thing about that is

Speaker 12 it is truly like

Speaker 12 the boy who kills his parents and then begs for mercy on the grounds that he's an orphan. They're in there saying it's 200 years old.

Speaker 12 It's only been invoked three times during actual wars, hard wars, hot wars.

Speaker 12 But they're the ones who allowed some 10 to 20 million illegals, criminals in many instances, on top of the illegal entry

Speaker 12 to come into this country over the past four years. The most extraordinary thing we've seen in a century when it comes to illegal immigration in this country.

Speaker 12 And now when President Trump does something extraordinary to combat it, which is to declare an invasion, to declare an incursion,

Speaker 12 now they turn around and say, you're using antiquated law. What are you doing? This is extraordinary.
Like this has only been used.

Speaker 12 Yes, you created the circumstances that made this necessary. The thing that's so galling about this judge

Speaker 12 And that exchange with Casey Hunt yesterday was she kept saying to Stephen Miller, what court can review it? Okay, what court can review it?

Speaker 12 Then what court can review it if this district court cannot do it? And the answer is, no court can review it, Casey. No court, not the Supreme Court, not the appellate court, not the district court.

Speaker 12 That's the answer. There is no court, including the highest court in the land, that has jurisdiction over this.

Speaker 12 And in part, yes, there's the issue of his foreign policy powers alone, but in part is because of the words of the Alien Enemy Act, as interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court after it was passed.

Speaker 12 They held as follows. I read this yesterday.
It stands. This is not reversed.
The U.S.

Speaker 12 Supreme Court held the Alien Enemy Act precludes, meaning stops, doesn't allow, judicial review of the removal order. This is the Supreme Court deciding a case after World War II had ended.

Speaker 12 Such great war powers may be abused, no doubt.

Speaker 12 But that is a bad reason for having judges supervise their exercise, whatever the legal formulas within which such supervision would nominally be confined, the Supreme Court majority declared.

Speaker 12 Accordingly, we hold that full responsibility for the just exercise of this great power may validly be left where the Congress has constitutionally placed it on the President of the United States.

Speaker 12 That's the law, Casey, not the Supreme Court, not the appellate court beneath it, and not Judge Boesberg.

Speaker 13 Bingo.

Speaker 13 It is completely settled. And

Speaker 13 the Democrats are going to continue to push for the most radical measures to stop President Trump. That is perfectly said.

Speaker 13 And the final takeaway here that I think is incredibly important, and you did mention this as well.

Speaker 13 Just understand the actual biographies of the people that they are willing to fight for, the hill that they are willing to die on. I mean, these are the worst of the worst human beings.

Speaker 13 I mean, some of these people are murderers and rapists and drug traffickers and criminals. I mean, Trende Aragua is an enemy occupation force.

Speaker 13 I mean, Megan, I did an event in December in Aurora, Colorado, and it unexpectedly became, it was an event for completely unrelated matter.

Speaker 13 And person after person came up talking about home invasions, talking about how the gang members have taken over apartment and condominium complexes, how their entire town has become a Venezuelan occupied city.

Speaker 13 Now, no more, it has now been liberated largely thanks to the federal government and Trende Aragua has been scattered across America.

Speaker 13 But the Democrats and the left, they are so desperate to try to slow down this administration that they are willing to side with drug traffickers, murderers, and criminals. for any reason whatsoever.

Speaker 13 And just understand the moral sickness that has infected the Democrat Party. And I hate to put it this way, Megan, because I wish the Democrats actually would moderate on some issues.

Speaker 13 I know we'll talk about the Gavin thing and whether that's legitimate or not. I wish the Democrats wouldn't be like this.

Speaker 13 But over a span of a couple of weeks, the Democrat Party at whole, and if you count this judge as one of them, they refuse to stand and applaud a young man with brain cancer who

Speaker 13 ceremonially became part of the U.S. Secret Service.

Speaker 13 while also aligning and supporting a judge who wants murderers and drug traffickers and criminals to have a piece-by-piece deportation process to potentially stay in the United States of America.

Speaker 13 That's the hill that they're willing to die on.

Speaker 13 It is a cancer that has infected the Democrat Party.

Speaker 13 And I'm thrilled that Trump and his team are willing to stand up against it, hold the line, and understand that some district court judge will not interfere with the president's power.

Speaker 12 Okay.

Speaker 12 I want to get to exactly who is in these groups that are being deported. But before we do that,

Speaker 12 stand by one second. Okay, Mike Davis, who's coming, he comes on the show all the time.
Our audience knows him. He has been making the rounds about this Judge Bozberg.
And here's what he's saying.

Speaker 14 I respect federal judges, no matter if they're appointed by Democrats or Republicans, but what Jeb Bozberg did in this instance is so illegal. It's so reckless.

Speaker 14 It's so dangerous that

Speaker 15 you are ordering.

Speaker 14 First of all, you are sabotaging the president of the United States during a national security operation. And if he doesn't resign, the House should impeach him.

Speaker 14 And look, I don't care if there aren't enough votes in the Senate to remove him.

Speaker 14 We need to put this guy through the process so these judges understand when you do these reckless, dangerous things, there are consequences.

Speaker 12 So that's the question. I mean, he's saying that he should be impeached.
There is a real question about whether there should be consequences for this judge.

Speaker 12 And, you know, of, yes, constitutional crisis, everybody will say it, but this guy is way out ahead of his skis.

Speaker 12 And I agree with you when this moves up and the process has been started and he's allowing it to go forward.

Speaker 12 He's demanding answers of the Trump administration that he get to second guess with the ACLU's questions, Trump's decisions on how to keep the country safe,

Speaker 12 that the Supreme Court will rule in Trump's favor. But do you think something should happen to this judge before then?

Speaker 13 Oh, without a doubt. I mean, the problem with impeachment of judges, it's very hard.
It's very arduous. I also think removal and impeachment are two technically different things.

Speaker 13 I'd have to double-check that because I think it still takes the same threshold in the Senate as a conviction takes of a president.

Speaker 13 Because the president has been impeached, President Trump twice, both on B.S. total nonsensical stuff.
So, yes, I mean, this judge should absolutely be removed.

Speaker 13 But this is the problem that we're going to have with those four years that we didn't control the White House. This was not a Biden judge.
This was an Obama judge.

Speaker 13 But the district courts are now filled with these radical left-wing judges across the country that are just taking turns trying to enjoin President Trump on everything that he is possibly doing.

Speaker 13 So absolutely, this judge should be impeached. I think an example needs to be made out of him.

Speaker 13 And look, the example needs to be very clear that there's no merits to him trying to stop a foreign security operation.

Speaker 13 The president should just shrug this off and say this is a complete waste of time. I also think that this is a great opportunity for Mike Johnson and John Thune to maybe show some political muscle.

Speaker 13 But the Democrats won't vote to impeach this guy in the Senate. Of course not.
We can't get them to vote to protect women's sports in the U.S.

Speaker 13 Senate, let alone vote to try to impeach a radical left-wing judge. And it is a disappointing moment in American politics.

Speaker 13 But it also shows, and this is one that I want to invigorate your audience for those of us that want to see the president succeed and that are supporters of the president, is that it just shows how desperate the Democrats have, that they are willing to go to such extraordinary, unprecedented measures to try and stop the president of the United States.

Speaker 13 You did not see Trump-appointed district court judges going to try to stop or enjoin Joe Biden's foreign policy decisions. We had too much respect for the U.S.

Speaker 13 Constitution, regardless of how bad Joe Biden or his auto pen actually was. for the United States.
We said, you know what? We're going to wait this one out. The Democrats, they have no such patience.

Speaker 13 They know that they are losing their grip on power. They know that they are increasingly unpopular.

Speaker 13 So they're going to even more dramatic and dangerous means to try to hold on to their illegitimate power. And I don't think it's going to last much longer.

Speaker 12 It's amazing. You're right about, you know, they've got the juxtaposition of not standing and clapping for the boy who beat brain cancer when he gets

Speaker 12 appointed as part of the Secret Service, which was the most... delightful, sweet moment.
They couldn't bring themselves to clap for him.

Speaker 12 But this hill they'll die on, trying to get the criminal gang members returned via flight back into the United States after we've already gotten them out.

Speaker 12 Not only that, but they're going to die on the hill of Mahmoud Khalil.

Speaker 12 Another debate I had with Glenn yesterday where they're saying this guy, oh, you know, he was just this, it was all about free speech.

Speaker 12 And as I said to Glenn, if this were just about Trump cracking down on Palestinian supporters, he'd be arresting all these people in Dearborn, Michigan.

Speaker 12 He'd be arresting people all over the country who rallied for the Palestinians, who are on the other side.

Speaker 12 He'd be arresting Kara Natia of the Washington Post, who liked the tweet, this is what decolonization looks like. That's what he'd be doing.

Speaker 12 The reason he's going after Mahmoud Khalil is because he was the spokesperson for the group that held Colombia hostage.

Speaker 12 So the left is making these decisions. to die on these very interesting hills after that state of the union where they already showed themselves to be heartless.

Speaker 12 And I do wonder if you look at these decisions of like, you know, standing up for Mahmoud Khalil, standing up for these Venezuelan gang members, and, you know, whoever else Trump is deporting who are not citizens, you cannot deport American citizens.

Speaker 12 That's not who he's deporting. Whether they've calculated in any of the political blowback.

Speaker 12 And before you answer that, just let me play this out from Caroline Levitt yesterday, describing some of who's going and being booted out on these flights.

Speaker 16 They led a multi-sex state sex trafficking operation involving smuggling women into the United States, holding them in stash houses in Louisiana, Florida, New Jersey, Texas, and Virginia, and forcing them into prostitution.

Speaker 16 They kidnapped and murdered a 33-year-old woman in Texas. They sexually and physically assaulted a woman and her daughter in Wisconsin.
They conducted a mass shooting in Illinois.

Speaker 12 Go ahead, Charlie.

Speaker 13 No, I mean, it's just...

Speaker 13 Is that all, Caroline? Is there anything else you'd like to add?

Speaker 13 I mean, at some point, you have to just, you have to understand the political calculus of the Democrats is so short-sighted.

Speaker 13 I wish that they would allow just very basic national security operations that involve the worst of the worst.

Speaker 13 And yes, look, Trende Aragua and their affiliated groups are a foreign occupation on American soil. We've seen it in communities all across the country.

Speaker 13 And let me also comment on that video of Bukele's people, troops, receiving these Trende Aragua

Speaker 13 gang members. What a phenomenal deterrent.
In fact,

Speaker 13 a new report shows that border crossings through the Darien Gap, through the Darien Gap, which is a very difficult forest to navigate, which actually you have to take from Venezuela eventually upwards all the way through Central America.

Speaker 13 The Darien Gap border crossings are down like 95 to 98% approximation, meaning that all of a sudden not a lot of people want to go from Venezuela all the way up to America.

Speaker 13 And yes, of course, the communist regime of Venezuela, as been proven multiple times through congressional reports and congressional testimony and intelligence reports, Maduro has opened up his prisons and sent the worst of the worst of Venezuela to America because it was open season.

Speaker 13 We were a littering ground for the third world. In fact, crime was down dramatically in Venezuela during the four years of Joe Biden.

Speaker 13 While crime went up in America, crime in Venezuela went dramatically down. And so we have to look at this through an eyes of deterrent and precedent.
It's an amazing deterrence.

Speaker 13 This will only further decrease gang members and cartels. Say, I don't want to go to America.
I might end up in an El Salvadorian jail. Forget this.
I'm not going to go there. Phenomenal.

Speaker 13 And then finally, precedent. I agree that the Trump administration does not need to even get the Supreme Court to intervene.
However, that will likely happen. regardless.

Speaker 13 The DOJ will probably end up appealing this, and we will get another precedent. And so for both on the deterrence and the precedent side, the President Trump's team has done a phenomenal job.

Speaker 13 And also, let me comment on the Mahmoud Kamil situation briefly. I thought you did great with Glenn Greenwald.
I sympathize with you 100%, Megan.

Speaker 13 I think the president is firmly within his constitutional authority under the Immigration Naturalization Act. Secondly, I think he's making the right decision.

Speaker 13 If you're an invited guest in the United States of America and not a U.S.

Speaker 13 passport holder, and you start actively involving in the fomenting of protest, outrage, and activity against the foreign policy interests of the United States, which involves the celebrating of of the massacring and the

Speaker 13 butchery of babies of the most heinous crimes against civilians and the Jewish people we've seen since the Holocaust. Sorry,

Speaker 13 your invitation to the United States of America has been rescinded.

Speaker 13 You are here on a conditional basis and we rescind you on the conditions that you are now actively making America a worse place to operate and live.

Speaker 13 Go back to your country of origin, Syria, I think it is, and go make that country great with all of your protest vigor.

Speaker 13 But understand that the Mahmoud Khalil situation is a great test case because they're suing that to eventually get a decision that President Trump is operating within his constitutional authority.

Speaker 13 And actually, the authority actually goes to the Secretary of State as the Immigration and Naturalization Act is actually written. It's Marco Rubio's call.

Speaker 13 It's precisely on him. And so they're being very smart about this, is that they're going to get really good court decisions from the U.S.
Supreme Court on this.

Speaker 13 It might take a little bit more time, but the verdict will end up being that these radical left-wing judges did nothing but slow down the inevitable, and the Democrats end up siding with Hamas sympathizers and trendy Aragua members.

Speaker 13 Quite a time to be a Democrat.

Speaker 12 Yeah, they keep talking about how he's a green card holder. Well, all that means is that he's got a permission slip to be here that can be revoked, unlike American citizenship, which cannot.

Speaker 12 He's here temporarily. We don't grant the same rights to green card holders as we do to American citizens.

Speaker 12 They are not allowed to vote. They're not allowed to do a lot.
In most cases, they're not allowed to receive public assistance.

Speaker 12 There's all sorts of things that you and I can do as natural born citizens that they can't. Sorry.
They're on probation until they become an actual citizen.

Speaker 12 And he violated his probation by acting like a mafia thug, going into the head of Columbia University and saying over and over, You divest from Israel or you get more Hamilton halls. Goodbye, Khalil.

Speaker 12 Hope you enjoyed America while you had it. No one gives a shit that you're married to an American or expecting an American baby.
They do not give you the right to stay here.

Speaker 12 And by the way, like everybody's like, oh, he's married to an American. That's why he got his green card so fast.
I know. I don't know how this guy got his green card so fast.

Speaker 12 I'd actually like to find out. Because let me tell you something.
I've said this before. My nephew,

Speaker 12 who's an American, he's the son of my sister. married.
He went over to teach kids in Korea, you know, like kids, like young teachers will do. And he did that for a couple of years.

Speaker 12 And he met a Korean woman and he fell in love with her and they got married and they had a baby who had dual citizenship. In any event, they wanted to move back here.

Speaker 12 So my nephew came back with his son, but his wife, who's a lawyer and married to an American citizen, but not a U.S. citizen, and whose son is an American citizen, but she's not an American citizen.

Speaker 12 It's been taking her years, years,

Speaker 12 just to get a green card, not never mind American citizenship. And they have nothing like Mahmoud Khalil's very sketchy history, like working for UNRWA, which is an arm of Hamas.

Speaker 12 She's still having trouble getting the permanent work paper. So something is sketchy about that guy's case, Charlie.

Speaker 13 I think we can conjecture why he got his green card so quickly, is that there are anti-Jewish, anti-Israel forces within the State Department that likely wanted this individual here.

Speaker 13 Again, we're just hypothesizing, but you're exactly right. I mean, you look at Riley Gaines' husband, who has been trying to get U.S.

Speaker 13 citizenship and his paperwork all figured out, and it's been a nightmare for quite a while. I mean, we can go through the list.

Speaker 13 We all have examples of friends and family of people that have tried this, people that are phenomenal and they marry American citizens and they follow the law and they're well-educated and they're great patriots.

Speaker 13 And nope, you can't get them a green card or a temporary citizenship or citizenship, whatever status you want.

Speaker 13 You have to wonder, again, I think a proper investigation is warranted, and Mark Arubia can look at this. Was there a fast track? Was there an accelerated process that was put into place

Speaker 13 for Mahmoud Kamil because he was trained as a professional agitator and organizer? Now, when we look through the left-wing literature, if you look through the left-wing literature,

Speaker 13 there's documents such as Good Trouble and many of these organizations.

Speaker 13 They use a hub and spoke model where they believe that that a singular agitator or organizer will be able to mobilize 500 to 1,000 people during a moment of mass protest against quote-unquote injustice.

Speaker 13 We see this in the actual Alinsky literature. This is in their training and their guidebooks.

Speaker 13 You have to wonder if Mahmoud Khalil was put into Columbia University for the stated purpose of being a professional agitator against the United States and against Israel and was given a green card for that reason.

Speaker 13 And was there any suspicion acceleration by the Biden State Department? We don't know.

Speaker 13 It's worthy to look into, but it would not shock me or surprise me that anti-American forces did this on many college campuses, Megan.

Speaker 13 What if we were to find out that there were 20 identical type of Mahmoud Khalil, foreign-funded, foreign-trained people that were put on American college campuses, maybe at UCLA?

Speaker 13 or some of these other massive encampments.

Speaker 13 I saw the UCLA one firsthand or the one at University of Washington where they were able to gin up all these well-meaning college kids that have been indoctrinated by their professors.

Speaker 13 It's worthy to look into and it also begs a broader and deeper question.

Speaker 13 How often, if at all, is the American immigration system being used to aid our enemies to create sometimes very quiet or sometimes loud sleeper cells in the interior of the United States to sow discord and disharmony against the best interests of our country?

Speaker 12 Yes, Charlie, this guy got his student visa to come study at Columbia in 2022, but his petition for relief on these deportation proceedings alleges that he got his green card in 2024 and it suspiciously does not say the exact month in 2024.

Speaker 12 It could have been an 18-month turnaround from student visa to green card holder,

Speaker 12 which is some kind of bizarre

Speaker 12 fast track, right? Especially for a guy who was working for UNRWA,

Speaker 12 the UN group that basically helps Hamas. I mean, truly, that's even Joe Biden admitted that and started defunding them post-10.7.

Speaker 12 So, and that's where he came from. That's where he was before he got into Colombia.
So there's something very sketchy about this guy. And now he's represented by 19 different law firms.

Speaker 12 I mean, they couldn't get to his defense fast enough to try to stop the Trump administration from deporting this guy.

Speaker 12 And it's amazing to me to watch the left delude itself that this guy still has some shot at American citizenship.

Speaker 12 No, that ship has sailed. Mahmoud Khalil will never be a U.S.
citizen. It's done.
The only question is whether we can kick him out, which we clearly can. All of it is just so infuriating.

Speaker 12 And I know the left wants to say it's free speech, it's free speech. It went well beyond free speech.
The people who just said, we hate Israel, we stand with the Palestinians, they're fine.

Speaker 12 That's fine. That's totally fair game under our First Amendment.
You can even say, I'm sympathetic toward Hamas, though you're getting closer to espousing support for a terrorist there. But go ahead.

Speaker 13 But no, I just want to make one point, which is that if an American citizen goes and burns a flag on a college campus, that's grotesque and it's bad, and that is constitutionally protected.

Speaker 13 But if someone on a green card, which is a permission slip, it's probationary, as you perfectly said, it's a time for us to see who this person is. goes and burns an American flag.

Speaker 13 No, you should be returned to your country of origin. Sorry, you failed the test.
You shouldn't be here. Like, you're here to try,

Speaker 13 you failed your tryout. Your job interview is an F.
And so they do not get the same protections. Of course not.
We're looking at them. We're seeing, are you going to make a good citizen?

Speaker 13 We have such a perverted and just such a

Speaker 13 left-wing view of how immigration should work.

Speaker 13 We have to reanalyze and go back to first principles that people who come here as immigrants, they are here as invited guests to enrich the homeland of the country and to make our lives better and to make the lives of native citizens better.

Speaker 13 And if their lives are also made better in the process, hopefully they are, then everybody wins. And that is immigration at its best, like the example.

Speaker 13 of your nephew's wife, who of course you'd make America a better place. Those are the types of people that we want in the United States of America.

Speaker 13 She would not be going to Columbia University burning an American flag.

Speaker 13 So I think that we need to take a step back and say, if you are here as an invited guest and you act in a way or you espouse beliefs such as burning American flags or doing these types of

Speaker 13 these types of practices,

Speaker 13 we're not going to throw you in a prison cell, but you will have to fly coach back to Damascus.

Speaker 13 That's only fair.

Speaker 12 That's only fair.

Speaker 12 So

Speaker 12 the thing about this group that he was the spokesperson for, the Columbia University Apartheid Divest, they put in writing that they're for the

Speaker 12 end of Western civilization. They want to end Western civilization.
So Marco Rubio was exactly, that's the group for which he decided to be a spokesperson. Absolutely.
Oh, it's just free speech, free.

Speaker 12 Okay, no, it's different. If an American citizen says something, that's one thing.
You can't deport him for saying controversial stuff, even like that.

Speaker 12 But a probationary person who's asking to be a U.S. citizen has the same standard applied to him as somebody who

Speaker 13 is seeking

Speaker 12 to enter the country in the first place. If you could exclude him based on the behavior you're looking at, you can deport him based on the behavior you're looking at.

Speaker 12 And Marco Rubio had it exactly right. We would not allow somebody into this country if we understood that their goal was to destroy Western civilization.
That would be a hard no.

Speaker 12 And if that's that guy's goal, which it is of the group he joined and became a spokesperson of, it's done.

Speaker 12 I had this debate with Glenn yesterday where we were talking about, I believe you did commit crimes by being the spokesperson for this group, and that would get him deported.

Speaker 12 Crimes will get you deported. But even if they're not charged,

Speaker 12 even if they're not charged, the government can go in there and say, we see there's probable cause to believe you committed these crimes, you're out.

Speaker 12 And speech that espouses or supports terrorism while you're a probationary citizen can get you kicked out. And

Speaker 12 if Marco Rubio, in his discretion as Secretary of State, thinks that there's a reasonable chance you might have bad implications for foreign policy, he can kick you out.

Speaker 12 It's just all sorts of different rules apply to somebody like this than apply to us. Okay, wait, I took the last word.
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Speaker 12 And Charlie, in not unrelated news, there's this case making the rounds today involving a doctor named Rasha Alewi, who's 34 years old. She's a Lebanese doctor.
She was here. on a visa.

Speaker 12 She's not a U.S. citizen.
And she just got the boot at Boston's Logan airport when she tried to get back into the country

Speaker 12 because it turns out she was off going to the funeral of the head of Hezbollah while she was overseas.

Speaker 12 And now she's yet another favorite poster girl of the left. They're very upset.
She seems to have that. The customs and Border Patrol didn't let her back in.

Speaker 12 This is what sort of drew our attention to it. Today, the White House, no, it was Homeland Security, posted this picture.

Speaker 12 No, it was the White House, posted a picture of Donald Trump in the McDonald's apron, waving

Speaker 12 out the window at McDonald's. He's waving goodbye.
And they're talking about this case.

Speaker 12 They write, last month, Rasha Alawe traveled to Beirut, Lebanon, to attend the funeral of Hassan Nasrallah, a brutal terrorist who led Hezbollah, responsible for killing hundreds of Americans over a four-decade terrorist break.

Speaker 12 This woman, of course, you'll be shocked, shocked to hear that she got into the United States in 2018 on a student

Speaker 12 visa and became a professor at Brown University, which is truly the most anti-Semitic university in America, more than Colombia.

Speaker 12 I say that 100% believing it to be true. She was a physician specializing in kidney transplants.

Speaker 12 So now the left is pretending we really needed her because we can't find any of our own doctors who do kidney transplants.

Speaker 12 We have to find terrorist sympathizers and let them teach at our universities with our young people.

Speaker 12 So she came here and

Speaker 12 did all the things I said. Then she left to go mourn.
Her favorite terrorist, Hassan Nasrallah. And then when she tried to get back in,

Speaker 12 I'm sorry,

Speaker 12 I just love this case. It's so ridiculous.
She got caught in a left.

Speaker 12 Why do they just not take the L? Like, this one, sorry, she got caught. You're going to have to.
No, they're out there defending her.

Speaker 12 She was questioned by CPB officers on her way back in who searched her phone, which apparently they have the right to do when you're trying to get in another country. You're not an American citizen.

Speaker 12 And so

Speaker 12 they would not immediately admit her because they found sympathetic photos and videos of prominent Hezbollah figures in a deleted items folder on her cell phone.

Speaker 12 So she knew she should get rid of this, but she wasn't very good at it. She said she's apolitical, Charlie.
She didn't, she didn't.

Speaker 12 She had these images because, no, because those leaders are revered by many Shia Muslims. Like, you see,

Speaker 12 I don't love Hitler, but lots of other people do, which is why I have a whole deleted file

Speaker 12 of Hitler photos on my phone.

Speaker 13 But I picture it with a lot of people.

Speaker 12 With a transcript.

Speaker 12 Jeez.

Speaker 12 Right, exactly. Just, you know, he's just an interesting figure.
That's all. So I not only do I watch a history channel about him, but I filled my phone full of photos of him.

Speaker 12 So I have a lot of WhatsApp groups, she says, with families and friends who send them. I am a Shia Muslim.
He is a religious figure.

Speaker 12 He has a lot of teachings and he's very highly regarded in the Shia community. He's a religious, spiritual person.
As I said, he has very high value. His teachings are about spirituality and morality.

Speaker 12 Okay, just note to the listening audience, he's a terrorist, and that's why he was killed in this Israeli airstrike.

Speaker 12 He was in charge of Hezbollah for 32 years, and in case you don't believe he was a terrorist, he was designated as such by the United States of America.

Speaker 12 In 1983, suicide bombing attacks against the first U.S. Embassy in Beirut, then the barracks of American and French peacekeepers, killing at least 360 people, including 241 American service members.

Speaker 12 The murderous attacks were claimed by the Islamic Jihad organization, considered a precursor to Hezbollah. Some of the suspected planners included top commanders under Nasrallah.

Speaker 12 And on and on, we could keep going. So he's a spiritual and moral leader.
And then, when questioned about other photos she had

Speaker 12 of Iranian Supreme Leader,

Speaker 12 Khomeini, Alawe said, oh, that's just typical of Shia Muslims. It has nothing to do with politics.

Speaker 12 Asked why she appeared to have deleted some of these photos just a day before arriving in the U.S., she replied, because I don't want the perception, but I can't delete everything.

Speaker 12 But I know I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm not related to anything politically or militarily.
I'm really not much into politics. But yes, she admitted she did know about the U.S.

Speaker 12 terrorism designation for Hezbollah. Okay, so now the law firm stepped in, tried to rescue her from being booted out.
She was detained for like a day while they figured out what to do with her.

Speaker 12 The left-wing law firms ran into court. They got a decision from an Obama judge, U.S.
District Judge Leo Sorokin, at 7:18 p.m.

Speaker 12 on Friday evening saying, don't deport her. Don't move her outside of Massachusetts.

Speaker 12 And at 7.20, two minutes later, not knowing of the order, CPB walked her to the gate to get her on her flight out of here. And the flight took off at, it departed the gate at 7.43 p.m.

Speaker 12 It took off at 7.59 p.m. And now there's a meltdown over why she got deported because apparently CPB, shockingly, the U.S.

Speaker 12 government didn't have the administrative setup to get this instantaneous notice that she was not to be sent out, but she was. So what do you make of it?

Speaker 13 Well, again, I think the president and his team are operating with phenomenal precision of the right cases to go after to set the right precedent i mean just the idea that you would try i want everyone to understand she so she she teaches at brown or she's affiliated in massachusetts somehow it's not as if that the the funeral that she was visiting was in richmond virginia she went halfway around to the other side of the planet okay for a funeral for the hezbollah leader this this is not exactly by the way not exactly the nicest time of year to go visit that region of the world uh Lebanon is not exactly like going to Turks and Caicos, okay?

Speaker 13 You got to know somebody to even get in, and it's very suspicious, okay, this whole thing. Like, let's just understand the contextual elements here.

Speaker 13 That you got to like connect through Istanbul, and then you're like, you're on your own, you got to take a train through the night. As you do all that, like, oh, yeah, I'm not political.

Speaker 13 B.S., you're obviously a sleeper cell of a foreign government. And way to kind of expose yourself to the entire world, that you go all the the way to this funeral.

Speaker 13 And like, yeah, I really have no ties to them. And I did take a bunch of pictures with every single one of the mass murdering lunatics of Hezbollah.

Speaker 13 These types of people that have any connection to terror cells have no place in the United States of America. If they are not U.S.
citizens, they should all be removed immediately.

Speaker 13 And I support the Trump administration completely. And again, it goes to show what the left is made of, is that the left views the entire world through oppressor and oppressed.

Speaker 13 We view the world through right and wrong, just and unjust, and moral and immoral.

Speaker 13 We look at this and we say that it is wrong, it is immoral, it is unjust for a country to willingly accept and receive a visitor who wants to become a permanent citizen, who, I don't know, takes their PTO as a professor.

Speaker 13 to go halfway around the world to a war-torn region to go visit the funeral of a Hezbollah leader, take pictures with all their top leaders, and then cry ignorant when asked questions upon re-entry into the United States of America.

Speaker 13 She has no business being in our country. And if she's such a qualified

Speaker 13 expert on kidney transplants, there's a lot of demand for that in the Middle East. So

Speaker 13 she'll have a lot of work. That's for sure.

Speaker 12 Yeah.

Speaker 12 She's going to go home and be with her people. I think she's going to be a lot happier over there.
She should hang out with Mahmoud Khalil with her. They'll get along great.
Exactly.

Speaker 12 Don't send your child to Columbia. Don't send your child to Brown.
Do not send your child to Brown University. Over my dead body, would my children go to either of those institutions.

Speaker 12 Okay, before we leave foreign policy, Trump fighting back against the Houthis, who have basically just run roughshod over important waterways over in the Middle East.

Speaker 12 And now he's saying, you know what? We're done with that. You're going to stop harassing U.S.
vessels and other vessels. And

Speaker 12 there was, I'm just going to get the stats.

Speaker 12 Since October 2023, the Houthi rebels have attacked more than 100 merchant vessels and warships in the Red Sea with hundreds of missiles, drones, and speed boats loaded with explosives.

Speaker 12 And now Trump is fighting back, actually saying, you're not going to get away with this. We're going to put a stop to this.

Speaker 12 And also warning Iran, we know you're behind all of this, and we're going to hold you accountable. We know it's not just this rebel group.
Now, interestingly, your friend and mine, Tucker Carlson,

Speaker 12 weighed in on this on Twitter and said the following.

Speaker 12 It's worth pointing out that a strike on the Iranian nuclear sites will almost certainly result in thousands of American deaths at bases throughout the Middle East and cost the U.S.

Speaker 12 tens of billions of dollars. The cost of future acts of terrorism on American soil may be even higher.
Those aren't guesses. Those are the Pentagon's own estimates.

Speaker 12 A bombing campaign against Iran will set off a war, and it will be America's war. Don't let the propagandists lie to you.

Speaker 12 Now, I think he's referring to what's happening with the Houthis and Trump's increasing rhetoric against Iran. In fairness, he doesn't get that specific.
But what do you make of this?

Speaker 12 Because there is a large portion of the MAGA base that is very non-interventionalist and does not want to saber-rattle against Iran, even though they clearly are backing the Houthis.

Speaker 12 Trump is a little bit more, he's not a neocon, but he's a little bit more aggressive on like dropping the bombs on people like Soleimani than that wing of the party is. So how do you see this going?

Speaker 13 Yeah, I mean, look, the president is a masterclass of being unpredictable, and he's not ideological when it comes to foreign policy.

Speaker 13 That is the most important thing you must understand with President Trump. And that's why he's the best

Speaker 13 peace president and the most effective commander in chief of my lifetime, and probably since Dwight D.

Speaker 13 Eisenhower, where he doesn't come after it being from a very specific, abstract worldview of we must be dovish or we must be hawkish.

Speaker 13 He looks at every independent situation, ways and measures, and says, what is best for the United States of America? I do sympathize with Tucker's view that a war with Iran would be totally,

Speaker 13 would be terrible. And I think the president also agrees with that.

Speaker 13 By the way, the president not once has signaled either in his campaign addresses, in his first term, that he wants a kinetic hot war with Iran.

Speaker 13 What does have some people worried is the mobilization of three, I believe it was three aircraft carriers or naval ships towards Iran, towards the Strait of Hermuz, which is all about shipping lanes.

Speaker 13 I think that's perfectly justified.

Speaker 12 Just to clarify that, our retaliatory strike on them,

Speaker 12 carried out by jets from the carrier Harry S. Truman, per Reuters on Sunday, at least 31 were killed.
Keep going, Charlie.

Speaker 13 Right. And so the, and I think that's the Houthi strikes, right? Not the ones on mainland Iran,

Speaker 13 if I'm not mistaken, which have not happened and hopefully will not happen. And so then there's a mobilization of some, of a naval fleet as well.

Speaker 13 So I take the president's view on this, which is what is best for the United States of America, while also understanding that Iran getting a nuclear weapon is a non-negotiable.

Speaker 13 Understand, this is an incredibly difficult balancing act that President Trump has to perform here.

Speaker 13 He has three simultaneous and probably even four simultaneous difficult Nobel Peace Prize-level accomplishments that he has to do simultaneously. He has to end the Russian-Ukrainian war.

Speaker 13 He has to figure out the Gaza situation with Israel, which is just so sad and it's very difficult. I'm, of course, on Israel's side, but it's a terrible situation.
Gaza has become a slum, literally.

Speaker 13 And I don't say that in a pejorative way. It is just, it's like Armageddon.
It's a terrible place, unfortunately. Number three is this Iranian situation.
Number four is China with Taiwan.

Speaker 13 He's inherited from Joe Biden. chaos and the world viewing us as weak and they're not really sure what America's role is here.

Speaker 13 And so the way I interpret this is that President Trump is not a neoconservative. He's not a nation builder.
He's not an empire builder.

Speaker 13 He has campaigned on peace through strength, but it's time for us to kind of show that America's muscle is still alive, that we do still have the capacity and the ability to mobilize ships, to launch missiles, to be able to execute airstrikes, or else our enemies will think that, oh, you know, America will not intervene and America won't get involved and we can go after American interests or even America troops overseas.

Speaker 13 The biggest of all of them though, and we cannot lose sight of it, will be the sunsetting and the ending of the Russian-Ukrainian war.

Speaker 13 President Trump deserves phenomenal credit as he is beating back all the neoconservatives, even entertaining, of which I think is really smart, the recognition of Crimea as Russian territory.

Speaker 13 That has been Russia's historically. It's where Russian wine is from.
It's where the Russian fleet was

Speaker 13 centered and headquartered for hundreds of years. It was only ceremonially given to Ukraine, I think, in 1954 as a gesture to try to show Russian-Ukrainian unity after World War II.

Speaker 13 All of that aside, the fact that the president is entertaining that is a big blow to the neoconservatives and goes to show that President Trump really wants this Russian-Ukrainian war to end, which I think is the most important of all of them.

Speaker 13 But he has a very difficult task ahead of him. because he needs to make sure that our enemies fear us without wanting to go into another boondoggle of an Iraq or Afghanistan war, Afghan war.

Speaker 13 He has to try to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon while President Biden gave them tens of billions of dollars of probably direct aid and hundreds of billions of dollars of tariff and sanction relief, while simultaneously understanding that a military strike against mainland Iran would be catastrophic and terrible for our country getting involved in potentially an Iraq War 2.0, which I don't support and you don't support.

Speaker 13 So I'm going to trust the prudence and the sophistication of President Trump to thread all of these needles.

Speaker 13 Praise God that he's actually being able to make all these decisions because he comes through everything through a strictly America-first, citizen-first perspective.

Speaker 12 I see it as a brushback, the same as I hate to use the sports analogy since I know very little about that arena, but I see it as like when the pitcher

Speaker 12 almost hits the batter with the ball, like get back from the plate. That's what he's doing with the Houthis to Iran.
Yeah, a little chick music.

Speaker 13 That's right.

Speaker 12 Exactly. Like, you better watch it.
And

Speaker 12 just to tell the audience what exactly he said, he,

Speaker 12 in part, said the following on a truth social post, talked about how weak Biden was with the Houthis and how U.S. ships are not able to sail through the Suez Canal, the Red Sea, or the Gulf of Aden.

Speaker 12 And said the last American warship to go through the Red Sea four months ago was attacked by the Houthis over a dozen times. This will not be tolerated any longer.
We will use overwhelming lethal

Speaker 12 The Houthis have choked off shipping in one of the most important waterways in the world.

Speaker 12 And he says no terrorist force will stop American commercial naval vessels from freely sailing the waterways of the world. To the Houthi terrorists, your time is up.

Speaker 12 Your attacks must stop starting today. If they don't, hell will rain down upon you like nothing you've ever seen before.
To Iran, support for the Houthi terrorists must end immediately.

Speaker 12 Do not threaten the American people, their president, who's received one of the largest mandates in presidential history or worldwide shipping lanes.

Speaker 12 If you do beware, because America will hold you fully accountable and we won't be nice about it. Okay, so that's where we are on the Houthis, yet another area of the world we got to keep our eye on.

Speaker 12 Again, not caused by Trump, trying to be addressed by Trump in a way that stops the nonsense. He's absolutely right.
Why should we be kept out of these waterways by the Houthis? This is bullshit.

Speaker 12 Anyway, no one wants a war with them, but why should we just cede

Speaker 12 three waterways in the world because of these terror offshoots? Okay.

Speaker 12 Got to get to Charlie Kirk as the inaugural guest on the Gavin Newsom podcast. And of course, you did a great job.

Speaker 12 And of course, you made news with him on his own podcast by getting him to admit that it's unfair to allow boys to compete against girls in girls' sports, which was great.

Speaker 12 You were your typical on-point substantive self, and he couldn't resist giving you what is such an obvious point and one on which even the Democrats are with him over 70%, even though lawmakers won't admit it.

Speaker 12 But here's what I said. And you know, I love you and I love Steve Bannon too.

Speaker 12 I don't like to see it because my own feeling is this guy's in training for 2028 against JD, probably, that's what we think, will likely be the standard bearer for the Republican Party.

Speaker 12 And he needs practice. We saw that when we debated Ron DeSantis on Hannity.
He needs practice. He's not very good at it.

Speaker 12 And we should not be helping him.

Speaker 12 Like the more times he sits across from Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon and any of our sort of lead fighters, the better he will get, the better he'll do, the more he'll understand how to appeal to people who are more right-wing or independently minded, but on the right.

Speaker 12 And he doesn't deserve our help, and we shouldn't be in there, like giving him the assist. So explain to me why you disagree.

Speaker 13 Well, first, I mean, understand, being the inaugural guest, it wasn't really even sure what I was going into. Right.
Because

Speaker 13 at the front end, it was like, hey, you know, there'll be no, you know, gotcha questions. It'll just be a discussion, which was largely true.
And secondly, when

Speaker 13 you arrive and they tell you all this stuff, they're like, oh, you know, his son is a fan and all that. It was like so over-the-top, like charm offensive.

Speaker 13 I was like, are you going to want to become a member of Turning Point or something, Governor Newsom? It was like over the, it was like almost like nauseatingly positive, right?

Speaker 13 That in that way, it was very difficult to navigate. I will say, if you look at Gavin Newsom's numbers, there's a Newsweek article, though.

Speaker 13 His numbers are down dramatically as far as favorability, trust, authenticity since he started this podcast. It's not going very well for him of how people view him.

Speaker 13 So for that, I will say that I think we have done a good job of exposing him for be the synthetic fraud that he actually is. I will give him credit for having the discussion.
Great.

Speaker 13 They didn't edit any of it. That deserves credit because they very well could have edited the trans thing out.
But I do understand completely where you're coming from, Megan.

Speaker 13 However, I would just view it a little bit differently. I don't think that Gavin Newsom is getting his spring training to become a presidential candidate.

Speaker 13 I think he's actually being exposed as someone who will not be able to get through a Democrat primary.

Speaker 13 He's making a very calculated bet that no one's going to remember that he was a failed governor, that no one's going to remember that he literally has no accomplishments, and that he's going to try to run to the middle and he'll be able to take his Democrat base for granted.

Speaker 13 The Democrat base, as exhibited as how they're acting. in the streets and how they're acting in Congress is not moderating on these issues.

Speaker 13 In fact, I think this podcast might be ending Gavin Newsom's presidential ambitions, ambitions, not preparing him for his presidential ambitions. Again, all this is just speculation and conjecture.

Speaker 13 And then I will also speak just for myself personally, why we decided to do it.

Speaker 13 Being the first guest, we consider that to be a pretty cool opportunity to be able to sit down and disagree and even debate at times with the governor of the world's, you know, the largest state, the fifth largest economy

Speaker 13 in the world.

Speaker 13 And I do think that sitting down and being able to and educate, which was well over 30 or 40 million people that ended up consuming our conversation, which was the most listened to so far of all the ones, of people that were in the middle and people that were at least politically curious, I think was really helpful.

Speaker 13 I got text messages from people in the tech world, CEOs, some of the wealthiest people on the planet, also just rank and file normies, if you will, of people that aren't exactly as politically engaged as you and I are, Megan, that were very, that were persuaded far more of the presentation of ideas that I presented, far more than what Gavin did.

Speaker 13 And so the final point I'll make is this, is that it wasn't just about Gavin.

Speaker 13 It was also about the tens of millions of people that were able to get their eyes open and say like, yeah, why didn't Gavin go stronger on the trans sports issue or why didn't he do this?

Speaker 13 And now Gavin Newsom, I could say this, you're seeing this, like, you're seeing this all across the board. He is under non-stop siege and he's handling it all wrong, in my opinion.

Speaker 13 Instead of doubling down and being like, you know, I'm going to keep on going to war against the Democrat Party.

Speaker 13 He keeps on doing these podcasts with, you know, people like us and trying to like win favor with us. When in reality, that's not happening.
He's becoming more unpopular with his own base.

Speaker 13 He's becoming least trusted with moderates. People look at him as a synthetic and as a fake.
And I have no regrets of dialoguing with him.

Speaker 12 So do you think more conservatives should say yes to him?

Speaker 13 Only. if they come after it in the way that I think we did without being overly braggadocious.
I think we were polite, but we were incredibly disagreeable and firm.

Speaker 13 And we were willing to challenge him and ask him questions about issues and get him on the record. If you notice, that's what we did with the trans thing.

Speaker 13 It wasn't just like, hey, let's have a discussion. I noticed that I asked him a direct policy question.
No, and so that's the only condition that I would say.

Speaker 13 is that insofar that it's not just kind of a bro session of like, hey, so good that Republicans and Democrats are talking, I don't think that's helpful for anybody.

Speaker 13 But the next time someone sits down with him, ask him an update. Hey, Governor Newsom, you said with Charlie Kirk that you think it's not fair.

Speaker 13 You have yet to do anything about it, sign an executive order, talk publicly about it, because a young man named A.B.

Speaker 13 Hernandez is about to win the long jump championship in California as a biological man. Why haven't you done something about it?

Speaker 13 Or are you just doing this podcast for clicks to try to make yourself seem more moderate?

Speaker 13 If Republican guest after Republican guest goes with that kind of attitude, be polite and firm, and hold him to the standard that he is setting on his own show, that will even collapse his political ambitions even further.

Speaker 12 That's interesting. I guess I'm still in the camp of don't help him.

Speaker 12 Don't help train him and don't help build his media brand because there's also a possibility what he really wants is to be Charlie Kirk and not Donald Trump.

Speaker 12 That what he really wants is to be the next Bill Maher with an audience that's large and that can appeal to both sides. And maybe that's his next invention.
Either one, I'm against.

Speaker 12 And so I'm just not in favor of it, notwithstanding the fact that you did a great job and made a lot of news.

Speaker 13 Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 12 All right. Well, Charlie's got to run.
It's a pleasure. As always, my friend, good to see you.
Thanks for being here.

Speaker 13 Thanks, Megan. Talk to you soon.
Thank you.

Speaker 12 Okay, but before we leave the topic of Gavin Newsom, let me give you some of those numbers that Charlie was referencing because they are brew tell.

Speaker 12 Capital Weekly, a nonprofit publication covering California politics, did a poll of 100 or a survey of 1,000 Californians and had them watch clips of Newsom's interview with Charlie.

Speaker 12 The podcast only made 13% of voters have an improved perception of the governor. 26% said it harmed their perception.
58% said made no difference. Among self-identified liberals, 37%

Speaker 12 said that the snippets harmed their perception of the governor.

Speaker 12 So in other words, 26% overall said it harmed their perception of him. And among liberals, 37% said it harmed my perception of the governor.

Speaker 12 Among those who have very favorable opinions of Gavin Newsom,

Speaker 12 he lost 16%.

Speaker 12 So he went from people who liked Gavin Newsom, liberals,

Speaker 12 saying, I have a very favorable opinion of him. At 46%, it fell to 30%.
So Charlie's correct.

Speaker 12 He's hurting himself with his liberal base by doing these interviews of people like Charlie and Steve and Michael Savage.

Speaker 12 It's because the thing about Gavin Newsom is he's not very good at pushing back. So he's not going in there and doing battle with the Charlies and the Bannons of the world.

Speaker 12 He's somewhat obsequious, to be honest with you. I mean, it's very strange because when you listen to him, you would think like he's a moderate, but he's not.

Speaker 12 He's, I mean, on the trans stuff and virtually every other subject, he is as radical as they come. He is another Kamala Harris, but there's something about him.

Speaker 12 Maybe he is a people pleaser, you know, a vintage politician. When he gets across from our, these are our war fighters.

Speaker 12 And truly, like the three I mentioned, these are warfighters in a way, rhetorical war.

Speaker 12 He feels the need to get their approval. That's how it feels.
And he's getting excoriated by the left-wing.

Speaker 12 press as a result. It's actually kind of amusing we put together a butted soundbite.
Take a listen here.

Speaker 12 I thought that that was one of the most inauthentic things I have seen Gavin Newsom do. Wow, terribly.
We don't believe Harold let them hang themselves there. No, I'm terribly disappointed.

Speaker 12 I think you meet energy with energy. And what he did was he showed his pretty white teeth and his cute face and did nothing other than that.
And I think it's despicable.

Speaker 18 I texted him about that. I'm like, what are you doing? And I used other words, but

Speaker 18 it wasn't challenging people who are actually famously trollish and say lies and things like that. If you don't push back on lies, they exist.

Speaker 19 I always thought he was kind of a, he'll be whatever he needs to be politician.

Speaker 12 This is

Speaker 12 way worse.

Speaker 19 Look, there are many of us that actually, I'm not saying this for sympathy, but basically sacrificed a career taking on people like Steve Bannon.

Speaker 20 Democrats are ticked off at him, and there's no Republican that's going to go, you know, California liberal, I like it.

Speaker 12 You have Steve Bannon.

Speaker 12 Amazing. Adam Kinsigo, I sacrificed a career taking on people like Steve Bannon.
Did you? Did you really? I don't, I don't, that's not how I remember it at all. You got Trump derangement syndrome.

Speaker 12 You decided to be a J6, anti-J6 warrior. You participated in the J6 committee, which was completely dishonest and a show trial.
And Republicans decided you weren't their cup of tea.

Speaker 12 It was not Steve Bannon's fault.

Speaker 12 In any event, they're melting down on the left over what Gavin Newsom is doing, which is kind of fun. I mean, it almost makes me want to see it continue, but not really, not really, because

Speaker 12 unlike Bill Maher, who definitely has a touch of the TDS,

Speaker 12 but can be fair to Republicans, the way Gavin Newsom governs is truly radical. I mean, there's nothing fair about the way he runs California when it comes to fairness to Republicans.
Nothing, nothing.

Speaker 12 He's sided over and over with that lunatic, Scott Wiener, the one that Carrie and Brett and Britt have been chasing down all over California on his radical trans ideology.

Speaker 12 I think he's only rejected that guy one time on his most crazy trans agenda. And now he wants to come out and say, like, oh yeah, boys shouldn't be in girl sports.

Speaker 12 Like Charlie said, well, what have you done about it, you loon?

Speaker 12 That same guy in Massachusetts who I've been railing on, oh, camera, Seth Moulton. Remember after the Dems lost in this past presidential election? He was like, you know what?

Speaker 12 We've really gone too far. Boys shouldn't be playing against girls.
I have two daughters.

Speaker 12 You go back. He voted against stopping that every single chance he had.
He's a U.S. Congressman.

Speaker 12 He voted in favor of allowing boys access to girls' sports and girls' private spaces every single chance he had.

Speaker 12 So it's like, that's great that you can now go on a podcast or issue a press release saying you're on my side, but you.

Speaker 12 You govern, you legislate 180 degrees the other way, and I I choose to look at what you've done, not your rhetoric, when you're across from a conservative or a reporter confronting you with polls that show everybody's on the side of reason, which is to keep these boys out of these sports.

Speaker 12 All right, on that subject, we have a special guest coming up next.

Speaker 12 This is the first time she's spoken out. And wait until you hear what happened to her when it comes to her NCAA medal and who took it from her.

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Speaker 12 I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM.

Speaker 12 It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today.

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Speaker 12 Trump's executive order keeping men out of women's sports was a victory for women and a huge step in the right direction. But one female athlete does not think it goes far enough.

Speaker 12 Mina Svard is a Swedish track and field athlete, and she wrote an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal that dropped yesterday laying out what else she would like to see done and for good reason.

Speaker 12 Mina joins me now for an exclusive interview. Welcome to the show, Mina.
Great to have you.

Speaker 21 Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 12 Oh, my pleasure. Okay, so

Speaker 12 you were born and raised in Sweden, but you came over to America for college, right? How did you make your way to the U.S.?

Speaker 21 I started talking to

Speaker 21 some different coaches in America about getting the chance to get a full-ride scholarship and go over there to, you know, experience the American way of doing things, getting the chance to get my education while continuing my athletic career.

Speaker 12 Okay, so you decided to come over here to compete in track and field. That's your sport?

Speaker 21 Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 12 And where did you go to school?

Speaker 21 I went to a school in Texas. At the time, it was called Texas AM University Commerce.

Speaker 12 And

Speaker 12 how is it going for you as an athlete?

Speaker 21 At this point, I'm not competing at the same level anymore.

Speaker 21 I'm still practicing.

Speaker 12 How was it when you went to Texas?

Speaker 21 Oh, when I went to Texas. Okay.

Speaker 21 It was going really well. I had a great experience until 2019

Speaker 21 at the national championship. But other than that, me as an athlete, I developed and I did really good.

Speaker 12 Okay, so you wind up going to the NCAA championships, right? Like

Speaker 12 explain what happened there.

Speaker 21 So in 2019, I qualified for the national championship in Division II.

Speaker 21 I was going to run the 400 hurdles.

Speaker 21 A few weeks prior to getting to the competition, I heard a lot of rumors going around that

Speaker 21 I would be competing against the male competitor.

Speaker 21 So, you know, coming up to the competition, I was trying to focus on myself and

Speaker 21 making sure that I got ready for the meet.

Speaker 21 But yeah, showing up at the track competition,

Speaker 21 one of the competitors that qualified was a man,

Speaker 21 took a spot from one of the females that would have been able to be at the national championship.

Speaker 21 So that was a very shocking experience for me. It was not something that I expected.

Speaker 12 When did you find out that this man, Cece Teffler, posing as a woman, was going to be allowed to compete against you?

Speaker 21 Personally, I found out just a few weeks prior to the actual competition.

Speaker 21 There was nothing you could do. I tried to focus on myself more, you know, because I can't affect anyone else's results on the track.

Speaker 21 So I tried to focus on myself to make sure that I'm ready for whenever I need to be.

Speaker 21 But I heard it from teammates. and other people in the track community talking about it.
So,

Speaker 12 yeah.

Speaker 12 And was there anything you could have done, Mina? Did anybody say what you could challenge it? Or were they basically like, you're stuck with this, deal with it?

Speaker 21 You're stuck with this. Deal with it.

Speaker 12 So, how did that make you feel? Because you had to realize that, I mean, look at this person. And for the listening audience, it is very clearly a man with male size, with male musculature.

Speaker 12 And indeed, Cece Teffler was running and competing in track and field as a man shortly prior to declaring himself a woman and running and competing against you.

Speaker 21 Yes.

Speaker 12 How close in time was it?

Speaker 21 Two years prior.

Speaker 21 He competed as a man.

Speaker 21 Yeah.

Speaker 12 And his stats were terrible, as I understand it. He was in the mid-300s in terms of his, where he ranked in track and field at that point as a man.

Speaker 21 Yeah, somewhere around there. And then two years later, he won the national championship for women.

Speaker 21 Something that we've been fighting for years.

Speaker 12 So he wins the national championship. Here he is running the hurdles.
And he's way ahead of everybody.

Speaker 12 And I understand he won by some two seconds, which is, explain that to us, because that's like an eternity.

Speaker 12 That's the average viewer may be thinking, two seconds, that's not, but that in track and field, that's an eternity.

Speaker 21 Yeah, look at the video. We're not even in the picture when he's crossing the finish line and taking that moment away from in this situation, me, but in other situations, any woman.

Speaker 12 In that race that we just watched, are you the number two racer?

Speaker 21 Yes, ma'am. That was the year I placed second

Speaker 21 at the national championship.

Speaker 12 What event was that?

Speaker 21 400-meter hurdles.

Speaker 12 Wow. So if he had not been allowed to race, that's you coming coming up behind him.
You would have been the gold medal winner.

Speaker 21 Yes, ma'am, I would have.

Speaker 12 The first place finisher at the NCAA championships. So this person, I mean, it's really unbelievable.
You've got to go and look at the video because you'll see that this is clearly a man.

Speaker 12 He's six foot two inches. He was born in Jamaica.
Now he goes by CC. His real name is Craig.
Now it's been changed.

Speaker 12 First competed without success in the men's division at Franklin Pierce University from 16 to 17.

Speaker 12 and was,

Speaker 12 again, middling at best. He had terrible numbers.
He was in the mid-300s place there until he became suddenly, quote, a woman, and then took first in the 400-meter hurdles in June of 2019.

Speaker 12 I mean, right like days later, basically, he decided he's a woman. And there he is.
And so when you stood up there as a second place finisher,

Speaker 12 Did you feel like you had to pretend this was fine? Like, what was going through your head there on the podium holding up your trophy?

Speaker 21 I tried to pretend like everything was fine. I remember crossing the finish line and my eyes started tearing up and I wiped it really quick to try to hide it from everybody else because

Speaker 21 even though I knew a lot of people felt the same way I did, no one spoke up. No one dared to say anything.
When we were at the meet, you could feel it in the air that something was different.

Speaker 21 In the speakers, they called out that we had to show sportsmanship and that we

Speaker 21 had to be inclusive. And that's something that I hadn't heard at a national championship for the NCAA prior to what was happening at this meet.

Speaker 21 So you, I felt like I had to be quiet.

Speaker 12 The

Speaker 12 By the way, I looked it up. He was 390th among the NCAA Division II men, 390th.

Speaker 12 and then suddenly declares himself a woman and he's number one and really loving the joy of defeating all of the women as though it's some sort of a feat for somebody who's been through male puberty and was running as a man two years earlier.

Speaker 12 It's just absurd. So what is it that you would like now? Because we've got the Trump executive order, which is great.
The NCAA's interpretation of it and promise to comply with it is less great.

Speaker 12 You could drive a truck through the holes that they've left, but it's something, I guess.

Speaker 12 So, what would you like to see now?

Speaker 21 I want NCAA to give back what was ours. The females that

Speaker 21 lost their trophies, their recognition, their records, they need to get back whatever they deserved and take it from the men because men have no place in women's sports.

Speaker 21 That is why we have two separate categories in sports, because we shouldn't mix that.

Speaker 21 And I also feel like it's really important that we actually make sure that this doesn't happen again.

Speaker 21 So the upcoming females don't have to deal with this issue and they shouldn't have to go through this.

Speaker 21 Because when you're entering in

Speaker 21 this for in the NCAA, when you're entering and competing there, you expect the NCAA to be there and protect you and support you because that's what they're supposed to do.

Speaker 21 What would NCAA be without their athletes?

Speaker 21 So why wouldn't they want to make sure that we are safe and that we are protected and that we get what we deserve?

Speaker 12 So, I mean, it's really amazing when you think about what they did to you. And like all women, I think you were told and probably raised to be nice.
Worry about this person's feelings.

Speaker 12 You know, such a small percentage. That's what they always say, Mina.
Such a small percentage of the country is trans.

Speaker 12 And, you know, this is just such a niche issue when it comes to athletics, too. Like,

Speaker 12 you know,

Speaker 12 where's the harm? That's really what people like Megan Rapino, soccer player who's already made her millions, ask.

Speaker 12 What's the harm? And to that, you say, what?

Speaker 21 It's everything that I fought for since I was four years old. I started tracking field when I was four years old.
I knew that I wanted to go somewhere with this.

Speaker 21 I knew that I wanted to become the best that I could. And that moment in 2019, I had worked for that moment for years

Speaker 21 and it got taken away from me.

Speaker 21 And even though, yeah, you can get a trophy back,

Speaker 21 you can get the recognition now, but like the moment will be lost forever.

Speaker 21 So,

Speaker 21 NCAA has done things to women that will never be able to be completely fixed. But that's why I feel like it's really important that people understand

Speaker 21 how severe this has been for women in sports.

Speaker 12 Yes, you were, even if you get the medal back, you were denied the glorious joy of winning, which you earned.

Speaker 12 It is unfair, period.

Speaker 21 Yeah.

Speaker 12 I can't imagine training for as many hours as you did,

Speaker 12 you know, just to have that feeling, right? I'm not an athlete, but maybe you could describe it for me.

Speaker 12 What does it feel like when you do cross first, when you are competing against other women, also fierce competitors, and you beat them fair and square? Like, what does it feel like?

Speaker 21 It's so many emotions at once. It's

Speaker 21 you bottle up all like the sweat, all the hard work, all the tears, all the happy times in practice, like all of it, it just comes out at the same time. And you feel

Speaker 21 when I, when I crossed the finish line in 2022, when I won the national championship, I was so proud of myself.

Speaker 21 I don't think I can put words on how I felt.

Speaker 21 It was,

Speaker 21 it was just everything that I had been wanting and worked for for so long.

Speaker 12 And then you get this boost of confidence and a belief in yourself and a belief in hard work. Like so much is gained by these young women thanks to the glorious joy of winning.

Speaker 12 And that's what's being stolen. That's part of what's being stolen.
And it's not replaceable, whether you get the trophy or the medal or you don't.

Speaker 12 That's the bare minimum they owe you is your medal, your first place finish, and your recognition as the winner. Is there any chance they're actually going to do it?

Speaker 21 i honestly don't know i don't trust the ncde no more all of that went out the window when i had to step on the track and compete against the man

Speaker 21 um so my trust for them is

Speaker 12 very low

Speaker 21 but you can always hope and that's what we're fighting for we want it We want that to happen.

Speaker 12 But if it does,

Speaker 21 that's a different thing.

Speaker 12 They could do right by you.

Speaker 12 Cece Teffler has been a media darling, Craig, went on CNN after the Trump inauguration and tried to paint himself as a victim. Here he is in SOP 51.

Speaker 12 How has life changed or has life changed since President Trump's inauguration?

Speaker 22 Oh my gosh. So I'm black, I'm a woman, and I'm transgender, and I'm an athlete.
Each of my identities

Speaker 22 is a target, especially in America. Prior to this set-in-stone administration, I woke up every day and I face adversaries when I leave my house.

Speaker 22 Now I wake up every day and I have to make sure that I make it home alive. It's really sad to see people going out of their way to make it known that you don't belong here.

Speaker 12 When you hear this man calling himself a woman and trying to get our sympathy for him because he's a woman and has it so tough among all these other challenges that are allegedly being targeted by the evil Trump, transgender and black, and a woman.

Speaker 12 What do you think?

Speaker 21 It makes me really annoyed

Speaker 21 because

Speaker 21 everything that I hear is him expressing his emotions.

Speaker 21 But for all this time, we have been asked, we women have been asked to be quiet and keep our emotions quiet quiet just to please someone else or another group of people.

Speaker 21 So that makes me really frustrated.

Speaker 12 This is just for the listening audience, a post that he put up on his Instagram vacillating between his feminine and his masculine voice. Take a listen.

Speaker 23 You saying that I look like a girl and sound like a girl is just not making no sense to me.

Speaker 23 In the great words of Kiki Palmer and Maya Angelou,

Speaker 12 you know who you are and no one can tell you who you are.

Speaker 12 Okay.

Speaker 12 The fact that that man has your medal is infuriating. And, you know, the truth is, Mina, that most actual trans people, people who actually genuinely have gender dysphoria, is what I'm saying,

Speaker 12 they would never use the man voice. They would be embarrassed to use the man voice.

Speaker 12 So, what that tells me is that more than likely, this is an autogonophile who gets off, gets sexually aroused by dressing like a woman. It's not about gender dysphoria, it's about a sexual fetish.

Speaker 12 And you lost your metal to that, that you were forced to participate in this man's sexual fetish, more than likely. In that race, who is standing up for you? Is there anybody at NCAA?

Speaker 12 Is there any sympathetic person? Is there a lot? Like, who is standing up for you?

Speaker 21 Well, when it happened, since it was the first time it ever happened in the NCAA history, um,

Speaker 21 everybody was kind of quiet about it, they didn't know how to react. Um, my coaches were supporting me at school, but other than that, we were just keeping quiet.

Speaker 12 Are you thinking about suing the NCAA?

Speaker 21 I don't know if I'm able to. I don't know if I can, but if I could,

Speaker 21 that would be something that I might want to do.

Speaker 12 I would love to see it happen. And I'm sure our friends over at the Independent Women's Council or at the Icons group would be interested in kicking that one around.

Speaker 12 Mina, I'm so sorry this happened to you. You did not deserve any of this.
All your hard work, blood, sweat, and tears earned you the first place finish, and we know you won that race.

Speaker 12 Thank you for speaking up.

Speaker 21 Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 12 Wow.

Speaker 12 I don't know, guys. Maybe God had a more important race for Mina in mind.
You know, maybe

Speaker 12 he had a bigger challenge that he wanted her. to step up to, and she's in the midst of it right now.
This

Speaker 12 it's infuriating to me. It actually like makes me emotional.
It's infuriating to me that they are doing this to young women.

Speaker 12 Think of it.

Speaker 12 He is a sick person.

Speaker 12 He's sick.

Speaker 12 And they enabled it. They enabled his mental illness and our unwellness to ruin that girl's life and everything she had worked for.
It's infuriating. It has to stop.

Speaker 12 And I mean actually stop, not just the Gavin Newsome window dressing of, gee, I'm against it, but let me pass legislation allowing it just as soon as you leave the room and before you got here too.

Speaker 12 It actually must stop. And people like Mina are going to make it stop.
Thanks to all of you for joining me today. We're back tomorrow with our friends from National Review.
See you then.

Speaker 12 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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