You Can Change Your Brain: Neuroscientist Explains How to Rewire Your Mind & Stop Negative Thoughts

Speaker 1 Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.

Speaker 1 I want you to listen to what people have said about our guest today and the impact that she's had on their life. Just listen to this:

Speaker 1 For the first time in years, I feel like my mind isn't my enemy. Your methods saved my son's life.

Speaker 1 I've tried therapy, I've tried meditation, but this is the first time I actually feel in control of my own thoughts.

Speaker 1 Dr. Caroline Leaf is here in her Boston studios.

Speaker 1 She is a world-renowned cognitive psychoneurobiologist and a pioneer in the science of neuroplasticity, which is the study of how your brain changes based on how you use your mind.

Speaker 1 Yes, you heard me right. You can use your mind and the power of your thoughts to change your brain and change your life.

Speaker 1 And she's not just going to explain how you do it, she's going to prove it to you because she has been researching this topic for almost 40 years.

Speaker 1 She's also the author of 19 best-selling books published in 24 languages, and she has another one on the way that is going to consolidate over 20 years of her clinical research.

Speaker 1 Her research shows that using this five-step proven evidence-based formula, you can see an 81% reduction in anxiety, depression, negative thinking simply by following the process she created called Neurocycle.

Speaker 1 This isn't just about thoughts. This same five-step process is also what you can use to heal brain trauma and to heal traumatic responses to past events.

Speaker 1 Dr. Leaf will tell you, you can stop the spirals of overthinking, stress, and anxiety.
You can systematically train your mind to create real lasting peace and resilience. So get ready.

Speaker 1 This is more than just another conversation. This is the science of taking your mind back.

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Speaker 1 Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so fired up for today's conversation.
You are going to love our expert.

Speaker 1 And what we're going to unpack in simple takeaways is how you can understand the difference between your mind and your brain and how to use your mind to change your brain and change your life.

Speaker 1 I mean, this is unbelievable stuff that we're going to cover. And it's always an honor to spend time together, to be with you.
And today is going to be an extraordinary conversation.

Speaker 1 And if you're new, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast family. I am glad that you're here.

Speaker 1 And because you hit play on this particular episode, here's what it tells me about you.

Speaker 1 You're the kind of person who wants to better understand yourself and you're also interested in unlocking the full power of your mind. And that's exactly what's going to happen today.

Speaker 1 And if somebody sent this episode to you, I want to point something out to you. You have people in your life that care about you, and that's really cool.

Speaker 1 The reason why they sent you this conversation is because they think it's really empowering, and they want you to be able to experience something that could truly change your life.

Speaker 1 And today, you are going to be learning something really cool.

Speaker 1 You're going to learn how to use your mind and the power of your thoughts to stop negative thinking and change your brain and change your life. So, let me tell you about our remarkable guest today.

Speaker 1 Dr. Caroline Leaf is a world-renowned researcher and a psychoneurobiologist.
She received her master's and doctorate at the University of Pretoria, South Africa.

Speaker 1 Since the early 1980s, she has been researching the mind-brain connection, the formation of memory, and she is also one of the original pioneering researchers to figure out that your brain can change.

Speaker 1 Dr.

Speaker 1 Leaf has also helped millions of people understand a five-part process called Neurocycle, which is the scientific, evidence-based, clinically studied method that she has used and that you're going to learn today to help patients heal traumatic brain injury and lower the symptoms of anxiety and depression, stress, and negative thinking.

Speaker 1 She is also the author of 18 best-selling books that have been translated into 24 languages, including the international bestseller, Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess, switch on your brain, and think and eat yourself smart.

Speaker 1 And so without further ado, please help me welcome the world-renowned psychoneurobiologist, Dr. Caroline Leif, to the Mel Robbins podcast.
Dr.

Speaker 1 Caroline Leaf, it is such an honor to have you here in our studios in Boston. It's a pleasure to meet you in person since I've been admiring your work from afar and watching your videos online.

Speaker 1 Thank you, thank you, thank you for hopping on a plane and being here with us.

Speaker 2 Mel, it's an honor and a privilege. I'm one of your biggest fans and really love what you do.
Thank you. It's so great to be here.
I'm so excited.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm excited to dig into your more than 35 years of research and the tools that you're going to share with us today that come from being a world-renowned psychoneurobiologist.

Speaker 1 But the way that I want to start is, I would love for you to speak directly to the person who is listening to us right now, who feels trapped in negative thoughts, you know, like that their mind is just a complete mess.

Speaker 1 What would you tell that person who's listening to us right now that feels that way?

Speaker 2 So 95% of people, according to research, actually battled negative thinking. So it's very common.
It's much more common than we realize.

Speaker 2 But people get stuck there because they're drawn to the imbalance that it creates.

Speaker 2 You can actually, as soon as you're aware of that, you can change it. And some of the typical things that people get stuck with are things like they feel under pressure.
That's such a,

Speaker 2 I feel so pressurized. I just can't do it.
Black and white thinking is another huge one. It's this or that.
Nothing's ever, life's a spectrum.

Speaker 2 Nothing's ever black and white, but it really gets people stuck. Things like my brain won't shut up.
You know, that's something that people will often say to me, how do I switch my brain off?

Speaker 2 That's a common statement that people make. A couple of others are things like, my past is haunting me.
How do I deal with that? It's coming right into, it haunts, it's there.

Speaker 2 It's over me all the time.

Speaker 1 I appreciate you sharing what you just shared because I think it's so important that number one, that the person listening understands that they're not alone in feeling how they feel.

Speaker 1 And more importantly, number two, that there is something that you can do about it, that it's based in evidence and that based on your clinical research, it's going to work. And so, Dr.

Speaker 1 Leaf, I would love to have you just start by telling the person who's listening what could change about their life or the life of people that they love if they really take to heart everything that you're about to teach us today and they apply it themselves?

Speaker 2 That's such a good question.

Speaker 2 And I think the biggest thing that I have found over the nearly 40 years I've been in this field and reached now a lot of people and 25 years of clinical practice, the key thing that is so helpful, and that is that your mind is not your brain.

Speaker 2 They're not the same thing and that you can manage your mind. You can actually change your mind and change your brain.
You're not stuck. I think that's absolutely key for people.

Speaker 1 Dr. Leith, you just said that the brain is different from the mind.
What does that mean?

Speaker 2 And that's the key question because when you get that, when you get that concept, it changes your life. It brings hope.

Speaker 2 We have a lot of messaging for

Speaker 2 about 40 years now, where we are, the mind and the brain, the words are used interchangeably as though they're the same thing.

Speaker 2 So what the truth is, Mel, is that your brain and your body are your physical part of you. This brain does absolutely nothing except what you tell it to do with your mind.
Okay, now hold on.

Speaker 1 Let me see if I can understand this, because if you're watching this on YouTube, you can see that she has a little model of a brain. It looks like two chicken cutlets together.
It does.

Speaker 1 And you're basically saying that on its own, that

Speaker 1 blob right there that we call the brain, the physical structure does absolutely nothing on its own.

Speaker 2 On its own.

Speaker 1 Okay. On its own.
So then what is the mind?

Speaker 2 So the mind is the energy force that actually drives the brain or makes it work, which is enabling us to have a conversation and part of memory and remembering what we're saying and so on, because your mind is doing the work.

Speaker 2 So the easiest way to understand this is that if you die within seconds of your heart stopping, under 20 seconds, your brain basically, that's it, and your body disintegrates.

Speaker 2 So the brain and the body disintegrate. What's the difference between a dead person and an alive person? It's actually your mind.

Speaker 2 So mind is a big word and it represents your spirit, your soul, whatever word you want to use. It's that mel-ness.

Speaker 2 It's your ability to perceive what I'm saying, to think and feel and choose about that, to love, to have relationships, to the way you see the world, the way you learn knowledge, the way you perceive every moment of every day.

Speaker 2 That's mind. That mind drives your physiology.
So the mind makes the brain work. It makes the genetics and the neurohormones and the the neurochemistry.
It makes the heartbeat.

Speaker 2 If you didn't have a mind, your heart couldn't beat. It's your mind that's making your heartbeat, that's making your lungs work, that's making you breathe.

Speaker 2 So it handles your mental aspects, your psychological aspects, it handles your neuro aspects, and it handles your biological. So psycho-neurobiological.

Speaker 2 So I'm actually a psycho-neurobiologist looking at this relationship, this network that we have. And the interesting thing, Mel, is that the mind is 99% of who you are.
It's fundamental.

Speaker 2 It's the prism through which life is processed. The brain is just a host.
So the mind is taking this conversation and putting a copy of it into the brain.

Speaker 2 And that then activates the brain to respond chemically and electromagnetically and genetically. And then it wires this conversation.
As we're talking, it's wiring it into the brain.

Speaker 2 But the mind's doing the work. So you with your mind and your listeners, they're taking my words, which are electromagnetic impulses, taking those into the mind zone.

Speaker 2 We've got like a zone around us of electromagnetic field. It's a field of energy.
It's exactly the same energy that runs your cell phone. So the thing that makes your cell phone and all anything work,

Speaker 2 the lights, the studio lights, et cetera, everything, everything that works, it's electromagnetics. But each of us has our own unique electromagnetic field.
So you have yours, I have mine.

Speaker 2 We all have our own unique ones. So your mind is that thing on a physics level.
I know it sounds hard. That's why I say think of a cell phone.

Speaker 1 I actually think it makes a lot of sense. So I want to try to give it back to you.
Yeah, go for it.

Speaker 1 So I'm completely understand what you're saying, that the brain is the physical thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 The mind is the energy force

Speaker 1 and the programming. And so if you take the example of the cell phone, if the cell phone isn't charged, it's dead.
Exactly. Same thing with a human being.

Speaker 1 And what charges you is the energy of your mind. Exactly.

Speaker 1 And if a cell phone actually was stripped, right, of like when you go to reset to factory settings or whatever, you wipe it clear of everything, it doesn't work. Exactly.

Speaker 1 And so you have to both have the energy to power it and you also have to have the programming and the language and all of that that tells it what to do. Otherwise, the thing is dead and useless.

Speaker 1 And you're saying the same thing about the brain and the mind.

Speaker 2 This is useless until you, with your mind,

Speaker 2 create the program put the programs in power it up charge it use it and even when it the cell phone dies it doesn't mean that the mind has died the mind still goes on it never stops that's the thing the mind just carries on wait what never stops you are always you you carry on so if you think of the mind it's driving all your psychological stuff and all your physiological stuff so when you have a for example we use eegs and q eegs in our in our neuroscience research which looks at the energy waves in the brain looks how the brain's how the the brain is responding.

Speaker 2 That's what we're looking at is the mind in the brain. When you have an EKG, they look at your heart.
That's the mind in your heart. The fact that your

Speaker 2 blood is pumping, it's a whole different concept.

Speaker 1 I've never thought about it that way before.

Speaker 1 Whenever somebody says the word mind, I think about what's in between my ears. Exactly.
But you're basically saying if you wiggle your toes, what's making your toes wiggle is your mind. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Which means your minds are in your toes and your fingertips. And

Speaker 1 if you feel like a shock, even when you touch a sweater, that's kind of like fuzzy and you get that little, like that's your mind helping you experience that. You got it.
That's crazy.

Speaker 1 I've never heard anybody explain it like that. I just think I got it for the first time.
I love it.

Speaker 1 So I got the difference between the physical versus the energy that powers it, but I've never actually extended that insight of the energy and the programming that is your mind.

Speaker 1 The life force that drives you is in your entire body.

Speaker 2 that is crazy it's crazy it's the it's a mind brain body network three things and it's a network that works together like the world wide web we have our own unique world wide web within our mind brain body connection yeah you can i'm wiggling my toes right now thinking my mind is in my toes right now this is so crazy totally but here's the really amazing thing as i'm speaking now as i mentioned i'm sending out the electromagnetic um the waves photons auditory sound all this energy fantastic physics stuff okay gravitational field all this fancy stuff.

Speaker 2 So, all my words are coming at you and the listeners. Your mind takes that and it's not in your brain yet, but and it forms it into little clouds, thought clouds.

Speaker 2 So, every word I'm saying is grouping into a little cloud, like raindrops form a cloud. My words are like drops of information forming a cloud.

Speaker 2 As that's forming, this is happening at 400 billion actions per second and faster. So, now we've got this cloud.
Now, your mind, your brilliant mind, makes a photocopy of that.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's obviously a bit more sophisticated than a photocopy, but it makes a copy, puts that into the brain, and the brain responds by genetically, neurochemically, electromagnetically, and it wires in a network.

Speaker 2 And that network looks like a tree. So the more drops are added to the cloud, the more branches you grow.
So we've got a cloud in the mind.

Speaker 2 We've got a copy of this, it is in the brain, and every single cell of your body gets a little mini, teeny weeny version inside every cell of your body.

Speaker 2 So every single cell of your body is building this conversation that we are having.

Speaker 1 Let me see if I can explain this back to you. Okay, because this is crazy.
And first of all, as you're listening to Dr.

Speaker 1 Leaf, I just want you to like wiggle your toes and have this experience of saying to yourself, oh my gosh, like that's my mind in my fingertips and my toes. And so like you can feel it everywhere.

Speaker 1 What you just explained, if I'm processing it correctly and I'm grabbing the droplets and turning it into the bush in my mind,

Speaker 1 is that as you are talking, there are the language that you are speaking is converted into energy and clouds and patterns that come through the air that in electro magnetic, whatever the heck the word was, but in

Speaker 1 sort of energetic electromagnetic form.

Speaker 1 And my mind.

Speaker 1 which is wiggling my fingers and toes, has the ability to grab that electromagnetic field that we would call language, ideas and words, grab them from you as an as energy,

Speaker 1 and then translate it into

Speaker 1 something that the brain, the physical structure, can now encode and remember.

Speaker 1 And this is the process of how your mind is taking the electromagnetic signals from all around you and encoding it into the mind so that you can do basically everything: walk around, recognize the environment that you're in, recognize somebody's faces, remember a voice that sounds familiar, everything everything and and it's what's interesting is that other than the programming that is part of the human design that helps you grow and breathe and know how to do the things that the body has

Speaker 1 has to do to keep you alive

Speaker 1 your mind is designed to constantly be learning and absorbing new electromagnetic patterns that it then puts into your mind,

Speaker 1 which is where, like, the neuroplasticity that your brain can always change.

Speaker 1 You got it, Mel. Wow.
So, I have a question about this. So good.

Speaker 1 Because you're going to teach us, no matter what you've been through, no matter how messy your life is right now, no matter how scrambled your thoughts may be, no matter how stuck you think you are,

Speaker 1 you can absolutely make your mind bud and sprout completely new thoughts, completely new ways to go through life. And you have the research to prove it.
When did you actually

Speaker 1 realize that this was possible?

Speaker 2 I trained. I'm 61.
I trained in that back in the 80s. And in the 80s, we were told that once the brain was damaged, that's it.

Speaker 2 This neuroscience lecturer was saying, okay, so once you've got brain damage, once you've had trauma, that's it. You've got to teach your patients to compensate.

Speaker 2 And I immediately remember putting up my hand. Now, this is back in the 80s.
I'm a female. It's in science.
There's majority males in my class and majority male lecturers. And there was bias.

Speaker 2 And I immediately put up my hand and I said, I wasn't trying to be difficult, but I challenged that and said, but we constantly are changing, growing, learning, all the stuff that philosophers have spoken about for thousands of years.

Speaker 2 So therefore, that means that our brain must change because our brain is the host. Our brain hosts our mind.
And the brain has got to change.

Speaker 2 So this professor kind of facetiously said, well, go do research.

Speaker 2 I thought, well, let me do that and I started working with people with traumatic brain injuries and saying okay well if I can help them manage their mind if I can help them rebuild and change how they're thinking can that change the brain I took people that had severe traumatic brain injuries and so give me an example like what like what is a patient that has severe so I'll tell you a story can I tell you one of my most amazing stories that I tell I've been telling this story now since then and I have permission to tell it with one of my patients called Lee and she I had just started this research and Lee was a 16-year-old and she had a terrible her and her brother had a terrible car accident.

Speaker 2 She was thrown far from the car and she went into a coma in the 80s. If you had, if you were in a coma for longer than eight hours, the brain damage was considered irreversible.

Speaker 2 But these, these parents were, we're not going to accept this. There's no ways that this is going to be the case.
And they said, look, please, and they begged me.

Speaker 2 So I said, okay, well, if you prepare to work with me, we're going to work together. And that's what we did.
And we worked for eight months. Now.

Speaker 1 And so you've got a their daughter was thrown from a car yeah she's in a coma yeah

Speaker 1 she the parents are told after eight hours there's irreversible brain damage exactly and i think and you're like even without being a doctor it makes sense because you're like okay you've been thrown from a car there's clearly damage physical damage to the brain exactly and there's nothing that can be done and now you enter doctor leaf and you're like oh no no no we're gonna look at the mind the thing that's wiggling your hands and your toes and we're gonna see if we can actually use the energetic power system.

Speaker 1 You got it. To

Speaker 1 reverse the traumatic brain injury?

Speaker 2 Yes. So they didn't reach out to me in the coma.
They reached out to me when she'd come to the coma and she was sort of functioning, but at a second grade level.

Speaker 2 This is a 16-year-old who's now almost 17 who...

Speaker 1 couldn't who can't even function at a second grade level got it and it's due to the traumatic brain injury that she experienced during the car accident exactly so enter dr leaf and what happens so then I work, I said, okay, we'll try this.

Speaker 2 We'll work together three days a week, two hours each time, but you're going to have to work in between. I mean, this is the key thing, Mel.
What I want to say is that I can give you these techniques.

Speaker 2 You can help anyone with any, but at the end of the day, you have to do the work. And we worked through the, I developed the five-step process.
I developed the theory clinically.

Speaker 2 And after eight months, not only did this child restore function, she went back to school. Now, she had missed most of her 12th grade at this stage.

Speaker 2 And she was an average student before so getting you know like c's and d's and whatever didn't do very well she goes back to school she's got to catch up her most of her 12th grade year that was her goal she did it she finished school with her peer group she finished with not only did she finish she finished with flying colors like for example she suddenly became a brilliant mathematician she was brilliant at math she went on to get a university degree her emotional cognitive social emotional all of that changed she had a funny sounding voice because she had damage to her larynx she couldn't walk properly so there were physical things, but mentally she restored.

Speaker 1 First of all, it's extraordinarily compelling where you've got somebody with a traumatic brain injury.

Speaker 1 And using the five steps that you're about to teach us today, the fact that you can help somebody in these severe traumatic cases to use the mind to heal the brain and to change the way that you experience life and to change the functioning of your mind and your body, that is so so exciting.

Speaker 1 And it also gives me hope because I feel like whether you're listening right now and you're struggling with a messy mind, you overthink, you beat yourself up, you're just like can never kind of focus or you can't let go of worry or rumination or you have somebody that you love that has concussion damage or that has experienced trauma.

Speaker 1 I'm excited because if those extreme cases are cases where you have been able to use these five steps to leverage the mind and the power and the energy to change somebody in that situation's experience of life and the way that their brain functions, I think this would work for all of us.

Speaker 2 We human, if you're human and you're alive, you have a mind and you need to know how to manage your mind. And this is, you're quite right, Mel, you've summarized it so beautifully.

Speaker 2 It's mind management.

Speaker 1 So, Dr.

Speaker 1 Leaf, though, the mind management technique and neurocycling that you're going to teach us, this five-step approach, Based on your clinical research, you can use it to both better manage stress and burnout and anxiety and depression, and you can also use your mind to heal the trauma from violent things that happen from the outside world.

Speaker 2 Exactly. So, one is the healing management process, the other is the managing process.
What's really key here is to understand that the levels of mind.

Speaker 2 And so, the reason the question you asked me earlier on is that how does it the same system work for everyone? It sounds like a magic trick. It doesn't sound too good to be true.

Speaker 2 So, first of all, there's years of science behind this.

Speaker 2 Patients that sit in front of me that have been through sexual trauma, they're not going to want to know about a complex scientific formula, nor is the traumatic brain injured patient, nor is someone who's a rushed mom, who's dad, or whatever, who's just come home.

Speaker 2 I've got to be able to say, okay, do this, this, this, and this. So, I had to take complex science, which took me years to turn it into something very, very simple.

Speaker 1 I want to just translate what you just said, though, because I think I got it. I think I did.
I'm sure you did.

Speaker 1 So, basically, if you're in a mode in your life where the stress feels relentless or your mind feels very very negative if you think about what how you explain conversation that again your mind is powering your brain and your body your mind is literally taking the energetic signals from life

Speaker 1 and then it brings it into your brain and body.

Speaker 1 And if your thoughts also start to become negative, I can't handle this. You know, I can't handle the stress.
I have no support. I'm never going to make it through this.

Speaker 1 Then what happens, you're right, is that you are creating a negative feedback loop inside your body, brain, inside your cells. Exactly.
And it's why you start to feel so heavy.

Speaker 1 It doesn't change the fact that you have very real stressful things you're dealing with, but because your mind is starting to now focus and repeat negative thoughts, you're creating additional negative programming.

Speaker 1 And so if that's true,

Speaker 1 if that's true, it's interesting because on page 45 of your book, you say everything we do begins with a thought.

Speaker 1 If we want to change anything in our lives, we first have to change our thinking, our mind.

Speaker 1 When we know how to change our mind, we rewire neural networks in the brain that then create useful, sustainable, and automatic actions and attitude, good habits that make us happier and healthier, hence the term mind management.

Speaker 1 And so the process that you're about to teach us is both recognizing when your mind is absorbing negative energy and negative thoughts and you're converting it into a negative thinking

Speaker 1 and unintentionally

Speaker 1 programming this network to be heavy or negative or to bring you down, that you can recognize that and you can use the exact same science to consciously choose positive energy and positive thinking, which then changes the neural network, the energy, the powering in your body, which only makes you more able to meet the things going on in your life.

Speaker 2 You summarize that brilliantly.

Speaker 1 Dr. Leaf, this feels like a great time to hit the pause button so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors.
And as you've been listening to Dr.

Speaker 1 Leaf and you're learning how to clean up your mental mess and leverage the power of your mind to change your brain, I am sure you had people that you care about come to mind.

Speaker 1 Please take a moment and share this with them because we all need to know how to clean up our mental mess. And we're only just getting started, so don't go anywhere.
Dr.

Speaker 1 Leaf and I will be waiting for you after a short break.

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Speaker 1 welcome back it's your buddy mel robbins and today you and i are getting to spend time together with psychoneurobiologist Dr. Caroline Leaf.

Speaker 1 She's here today unpacking more than 35 years of her pioneering research and clinical studies and teaching you how to completely rewire your brain using the unbelievable power of your mind. So Dr.

Speaker 1 Leaf, the next question I want to ask you is this.

Speaker 1 While we're on the topic of your book, When I was reading it, I noticed that there was this whole section about how labeling a mental health issue, you know, for example, when you say, I have anxiety, I have depression, I have PTSD, that that's actually harmful.

Speaker 1 As a neuroscientist, what do you mean by that?

Speaker 2 Oh, wow. I'm so glad you asked this question.

Speaker 2 The last 40 years, we've had the biomedical model, and the biomedical model basically has taken our experiences as humans and put them into a diagnosis and a label and a treatment.

Speaker 2 Now, that works brilliantly if you have diabetes or heart issues or anything like that. That model is medical.
It's a good model.

Speaker 2 But the mind doesn't work like that because the mind isn't driven by the brain. So that model is based on the fact that your brain is it and your brain produces mind.
Your brain produces nothing.

Speaker 2 Your brain is a responder. It's a host and it just does what the mind tells it to do.

Speaker 2 And if your mind keeps feeding it all the stuff like we've been describing, eventually over time, cumulatively, your body and mind break down. So you become vulnerable to disease.

Speaker 2 And the research shows that 95% of lifestyle diseases come from our thought life. 95%.
So that's the established scientific fact.

Speaker 2 The labels of PTSD, schizophrenia, anxiety, anxiety depression they are seem as though they're the same as something like diabetes but they're not they're not at all the word anxiety and we'll see this when you do the neurocycle and depression those are not things

Speaker 2 those are emotional warning signals they're telling you that you're out of alignment with how you feel and you need to pay attention yes otherwise it's going to get worse so you know if you've got a if you put your hand on the stove and it's burning you can take all the ibuprofen in the world that you want and painkillers but if you until you remove your hand from the stove

Speaker 2 you're still going to have your, it's going to burn a hole through your hand. So what we're doing is toxic positivity, ignoring, labeling, medicating.
That's just trying to deal with the symptoms.

Speaker 2 What we have to do is embrace all the scariness, sadness, darkness of life, and you use that to learn and to grow. That's essentially what we need to do.
So labeling locks you in

Speaker 2 because PTSD, is not an it it's a behavior depression and anxiety are not an it they're emotional warning signals ptsd is a behavioral warning signal what what does that mean it's not an it okay it's a signal so it's not a fixed thing so when you label something like diabetes it's a it's something wrong with your pancreas there's insulin it doesn't produce enough insulin they can do a test and they can target a medication when it comes to ptsd it's not the same thing it's not something that you can target specifically with a medication ptsd is a is a big word for a bunch of reactions that we have to adverse circumstances.

Speaker 2 So whether you're in war, whether you've been raped repeatedly as a child, whether you've been in a tremendous socioeconomic strain, whether you've had a bullying relationship at work, all of that is not PTSD.

Speaker 2 Each one is its own unique story. You can't just take that hugeness, stick it in a label and say, oh, your brain is broken here.
Let's fix it here. It's not about your brain.

Speaker 1 What is it about?

Speaker 2 It's about your mind. It's about the experience.
So it's about the experience that you've had. So adverse response to adverse experience is

Speaker 1 normal. And it makes you healthy.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 And when you say mind, I want to be very, very clear that what you're saying when you say mind is you're saying that the experience that you had

Speaker 1 that was creating the trauma, the traumatic response was recorded by the mind. It was programmed into the brain and the body and the nervous system.

Speaker 1 And by labeling it and by focusing on it, you make that experience stay around.

Speaker 2 You're locking it in. It's like putting

Speaker 2 it in a key and you, and that's now, and then you're shifting to that, and then that becomes your defining.

Speaker 1 How do you want us to think about it?

Speaker 1 Because, you know, you're a neuroscientist that has success healing traumatic brain injury and also healing other traumas in the brain and the body by beginning with the mind.

Speaker 1 So how do you want us to think about trauma, anxiety, and depression?

Speaker 2 Okay, so great question. So I want you to think about them as simply how you're showing up, as words, descriptions for how you're showing up, as opposed to diseases of the brain.

Speaker 2 They will impact your brain. We've heard that whole story already from the beginning, how whatever goes in the mind then goes in the brain and the body.

Speaker 2 And because our brain and our body are not wired for that, the network's not wired for that, it creates a disruption and telomeres and cells and all that breaks down and we get vulnerable to disease.

Speaker 2 So there's an impact, but it's not the cause. So the brain's not the cause, life is the cause because you aren't depression, you are feeling depressed because of

Speaker 2 you aren't PTSD, you're experiencing PTSD symptoms because of. So, we need to find the because of Dr.

Speaker 1 Leaf.

Speaker 1 As a neuroscientist who has been studying the way that you can use the mind to heal the brain and the body, you look at these as responses to adverse experiences in life that can become your default response to life.

Speaker 1 Yes. Because

Speaker 1 nobody understands how to use the power of the mind and the programming and energetic force that the mind is to create a different network inside the body

Speaker 1 that heals the response that you had to traumatic. or very overwhelming situations in life.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 And that's what you mean. That's right.
The mind mind has the power to heal

Speaker 1 your trauma, your anxiety, and your depression.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And it's not like they're going to just be replaced.
We've got to keep stressing that.

Speaker 2 We're not just pulling out one thought and putting in another. You're actually embracing, processing, and reconceptualizing.
Very different to just...

Speaker 2 pulling a thought out and trying to replace it with a positive thought. You're actually looking head-on at that intrusive thought that is associated with that.

Speaker 1 Because if you think about

Speaker 1 it, that is coming from a traumatic experience. experience, so it's become your response to withdraw or freeze or run or whatever.

Speaker 2 Whatever those are, you're looking at the whole cluster. You're looking, and you start, that's exactly where you start.
You start with the responses, those are signals.

Speaker 2 And the signal, and along with those signals, is if you, as soon as you look at the signal, the run, the anxiety, the PTSD, those heaviness of depression, heaviness, those things, that's how you're showing up.

Speaker 2 It's a big, broad description of how you're showing up.

Speaker 2 And once you've got that, what neuroscientific research shows is that the minute that you're aware of something that's when you start weakening it and you can change it when something's strong and stuck labels lock you in that kind of concept or stuck in a pattern you can't it's very it feels like you can't change it because you you aren't depression you are feeling depressed because of you aren't PTSD you are feeling you're experiencing PTSD symptoms because of so we need to find the because of and then we don't need to as I mentioned earlier on, we don't need to get stuck in the sinking sand of why did they do that to me?

Speaker 2 You'll become a victim. You won't move forward.
But then I need to start: okay, how am I going to, how do I want this to play out in my future? I reconstruct. Then I reconstruct that thought.

Speaker 2 That toxic thought part of the thought has now lost salience. It's shrunk.
It never goes away because I can remember what happened to me, but it's now instead of

Speaker 2 it.

Speaker 1 It doesn't hold power because you

Speaker 1 are able to leverage the energetic programming force

Speaker 1 of your mind to go back into your body, brain, and nervous system and flood it with a completely different programming

Speaker 1 related to the experience, the response, all of it. And there's so much optimism about this.
You call this five-step process neurocycling. And I just want to read from your book.

Speaker 1 This is on page 106 of Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess.

Speaker 1 So this is what the science means means for you.

Speaker 1 You can transition from just being aware of your chaotic and toxic thoughts to being empowered to catch these thoughts in their early stages, manage them, and improve your overall peace and well-being.

Speaker 1 With appropriate mind management training and self-regulation, which is what cleaning up the mental mess using the neurocycle is all about,

Speaker 1 you can systematically use your mind to take advantage of the neuroplasticity of your brain to rework and rewire your thoughts. And there's even more.

Speaker 1 You'll become equipped to prevent the development of toxic thoughts, reconceptualize traumatic thoughts, and change and improve all areas of your life, including managing depression, anxiety, and burnout that can come from chronic and recurrent stress, trauma, identity issues, isolation, sleep difficulties, challenges with exercise and diet, and so much more.

Speaker 1 It's incredibly exciting to see, and this is what I really want you to hear, that after 21 days of using this neurocycle process, check this out, 81%

Speaker 1 reduction in depression and anxiety in the clinical trial.

Speaker 1 81% reduction in 21 days, simply using the power of our minds and our thoughts and the energy it brings to reprogram the experience of our life

Speaker 1 and to completely change and reconceptualize trauma. How the heck we do this? Because there's five steps and I want to use an example.

Speaker 1 So intrusive thoughts, which we now are best friends, right? Yeah. Because it's signaling something to us.
Exactly. And let's say that you're just like got something going on at work.

Speaker 1 And you don't have the greatest relationship with your boss and you're having trouble sleeping and you are chronically like feeling like you're going to get in trouble or it's going to be a bad day or you're not doing a good job or you're not going to make your numbers or you're not going to get that thing that you want or it's just you just hate like bracing.

Speaker 1 You got a conversation with your boss today. You don't want to deal with it and you're kind of in that negative loop.
It's causing stress. You don't know how to shake it.

Speaker 1 How do we use your five-step process, the neurocycle, in that situation? Okay.

Speaker 2 Great example. Okay.
So first thing is gather awareness.

Speaker 2 second one is reflect third step is to write slash mindstorm which i'll explain recheck is the fourth step and active reach is the fifth step it's not a technique we're talking about a formula that helps you go from the signals all the way to the thought to the root reconstruct and change how it plays out into your future okay so it's gather information gather awareness reflect write recheck and then active reach yeah okay so first thing before let's say now that you're about to go to work, the first thing is you need to do a mind-brain-body prep.

Speaker 2 And that you can do, there are so many different ways.

Speaker 1 So, is this the like gathering awareness part? No, okay.

Speaker 2 This is before that. Okay.
So, the first thing is to, is to just prepare yourself neurophysiologically. And that you can do anything from a visualization to a breathing to a meditation.

Speaker 2 You don't even have to close your eyes when you meditate. But one that really does work is a 10-second pause.
There's a lot of science behind the 10-second pause.

Speaker 1 What is the 10-second pause?

Speaker 2 10. You can use, you, you count to 10, you do 10 breaths, but you can do it in any combination you want.

Speaker 2 So let's say, for example, you're feeling really angry and you feel that and you think of your boss and you want to get that anger under control because that's the predominant like, oh, I'm so mad that I have to.

Speaker 2 Then I would recommend something like you breathe in for two counts, hold for two counts, and then breathe out for six.

Speaker 2 But in the first three of the six, you say let, and the second three of the six, you say go. So it's in.

Speaker 1 hold

Speaker 2 and then out

Speaker 2 but as you count and i'll count to six and you can try it. As I count to six, you're going to say let go in the six part.

Speaker 1 So let for myself. To yourself.
Because I'm breathing, so I can't say them. You can't say them.

Speaker 2 So you're breathing. So

Speaker 2 in one, two, hold, one, two,

Speaker 2 out. One, two, three, four, five, six.
In the one, two, three, you say let.

Speaker 2 And the three, four, five, six, go. This is let them theory.
I mean, it's like literally lines up with your let them theory. That oxygen isn't just just breathing.

Speaker 2 We hear so much about breathe, breathe, breathe. You've used 10 seconds.
10 seconds is very significant in terms of the conscious mind. The conscious mind works with little bursts of 10 seconds.

Speaker 2 So the non-conscious mind works with an infinite speed.

Speaker 2 The conscious mind can only handle like one little conversation at a time, which is like a 10-second little burst of activity.

Speaker 2 So what you do is you keep your conscious mind in its zone, which is a 10-second zone. So you don't overwhelm.
So it takes the overwhelm away. Non-conscious unconscious can handle everything.

Speaker 2 And you can do it once or up to six times. So 60 seconds of that, just to get yourself.
So that's an example.

Speaker 1 So the 10 second

Speaker 1 breathing method that you just taught us that works for the conscious mind,

Speaker 1 which kind of pulls you into the moment. Into the moment.
And that allows you to then do this five step process.

Speaker 2 You know, any moment that you feel negative thoughts, a negative emotion, a response that feels like a freeze or an on-edgedness you do the 10-second breath and then what how do we do the neurocycle okay so gather awareness is step one four sentences you ask yourself what am i feeling and you answer i am feeling and it may be one or two words frustration anger nervous i'm feeling nervous there you go then you say where am i feeling this in my body bodily sensation and so maybe shoulders are tense or your heart's beating faster or you're sweating whatever how what what are my behaviors what am i saying and doing what am i about to say and do?

Speaker 2 I can feel my face contorting. I can feel myself building up to snap or whatever.

Speaker 2 And then the fourth signal: what's my perspective at the moment? How am I looking at the day in this moment? It's going to be a lousy day. I can't handle this.
I hate this.

Speaker 2 So you just gather awareness. So you very, very calmly stand back and observe.
You're self-regulating. You are taking control.
See, what makes us feel terrible is all of this stuff just coming at us.

Speaker 2 It is so messy.

Speaker 1 It's just like all over the place. And then I don't know how to gather the thoughts because they're all over the place.
But now I'm grounding myself

Speaker 1 by asking, how do I feel?

Speaker 2 And it's organized. It's not just random.
It's very, very clear what your brain, mind, body, mind, brain, body network.

Speaker 1 Okay, so it's what do I feel? Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's where am I feeling that in my body? Yes, body. It's what am I doing or like

Speaker 1 behaviors in response to it?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 what is, there's something about my face. Okay, my, okay.
Perspective. Perspective.
So let me say that again again because I want to make sure that the person listening gets this too.

Speaker 1 How am I feeling?

Speaker 1 Where am I feeling it in my body? What are the behaviors, the thoughts and the kind of actions?

Speaker 1 And what's my perspective or thought about this?

Speaker 2 How am I looking at life?

Speaker 1 How am I looking at this? Let's talk negatively. I can tell you right now, if it's bothering me, it's like death day for me.

Speaker 2 There we go. So perspective is like putting on a pair of glasses.
Gotcha. And if it's all broken and shattered and whatever, you can't see.
So what is your perspective? Life is lousy. Life sucks.

Speaker 2 So it's an attitude. It's not a thought yet.

Speaker 1 Nothing ever goes my way. I'm going to be alone forever.
I always screw up. Got it.

Speaker 2 It's always going to be like this. That's what you want to capture.
So what you're doing is you are objectively in a very kind and compassionate and loving way, because this is okay.

Speaker 2 You got to kind of start out by saying part of that mind-brain, body prep is to say, it's okay to be a mess. All of us are messy.

Speaker 2 Most of us walk around for most of the day, not happy, just going through the motions of life. This whole thing of trying to be happy all the time has also been a disaster.

Speaker 2 It's really made people feel worse. So part of that first mind-brand body prep is to really bring in an attitude towards yourself of kindness and compassion.
And it's okay to be a mess.

Speaker 2 This is not mel.

Speaker 1 This is well, I think if you even have the presence of mind to collect yourself and do the 10 second breathing. And now you're gathering information instead of running yourself over mentally.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 You are being kind to yourself. You are.

Speaker 1 And what I find like nine times out of 10, when I do this, it's the same thing. I've done something wrong.
That is the core thing that it comes back to for me.

Speaker 1 And I think as people start to use your process, you find that too. You start to find it's like, I'm not good enough.
I'm not lovable. I'm always alone.

Speaker 1 Like that kind of thing for me, it's like I have done something wrong. So once you've asked these four questions and you've gathered the awareness, the second step is reflect.
What do you do?

Speaker 2 So reflection, if you think of a reflection, you look at yourself in a mirror, you see the reflection of yourself. There's also the concept of a reflection of light through a prism.

Speaker 2 If you shine a white light through a prism, it comes out with yes. Yes.
So there's depth and there's reflection. So you're reflecting on

Speaker 2 how am I seeing myself in relation to those four questions. So you keep very organized.
Don't jump all over. So you say, you reflect on why am I seeing myself this way and what does it mean?

Speaker 2 So you look in the mirror and you go deep and you use the WH questions, the who, the what, the when, the where, the why, the how. Okay, so how do I do that?

Speaker 2 So why am I feeling like this in this moment? Why am I specifically feeling it in my stomach? Is it always in my stomach when I feel this? Where is this happening? Is it only happening at work?

Speaker 2 Is it happening before? How often? How often is it happening? Is it happening every day or just now and then? So you just start the process. You're not going to solve it all, but it's very specific.

Speaker 2 I'm looking at myself in the mirror. I'm reflecting back and I'm going deep.
Who, when, where, what, why, how. Got it.
You don't have to answer all of them, but what makes sense to one.

Speaker 2 Now, those two, three steps, people are pretty good at the meditation, the breathing, all that stuff.

Speaker 1 um they're pretty good at saying how they feel but that's when people crash well sort of like people who go to therapy for years and years and years and just get good at talking about their problems, but don't ever

Speaker 1 move to the solution part or the attacking the problem.

Speaker 1 So how do we do that here? Because we're now becoming aware of the thing, the cycle that you're normally in, which is very important to separate yourself from it. Yes.

Speaker 1 And you're doing it in a way where you're calm. Very organized.

Speaker 2 Very calm. Very organized.

Speaker 1 The next part is right.

Speaker 2 What am I writing? Now what we do is we go to, so I've got all this stuff come up. I've got my whole networks now activated.
I can change. Now you go into a writing mindstorm phase.

Speaker 2 So I'm adding the word mindstorm on because that's in that write a mindset.

Speaker 1 Mindstorm. Mindstorm.

Speaker 2 Gotcha. So it's easy to get.

Speaker 1 So this is like the tsunami of trash and garbage and toxic crap.

Speaker 2 Related to what you've just done. So

Speaker 1 I hate my boss. I've made another mistake.
I'm about to get fired. I'm a loser.
I'm never good at it. Exactly.

Speaker 2 All the stuff you threw out at the beginning. Mindstorm.

Speaker 1 That's what you do.

Speaker 2 So, what we did was we calmed, we gathered awareness very specifically, four questions, four answers. We reflected and started the who, what, when, who, why.
So, now you're very organized.

Speaker 2 Notice I keep saying we're bringing order out of chaos. Very specific.
When you do that, there's all kinds of neuroscientific things happening. Now, that has shone the light on that network.

Speaker 2 So, now that network's got lots of branches. So, that's what the third step's doing is putting up all this stuff.

Speaker 1 And what behind your shopping list? What am I writing?

Speaker 2 So, you can, words, phrases, whatever. So, this is where it's good to get a blank piece of paper.
Okay. Draw a circle in the middle.

Speaker 1 Draw a circle in the middle. Okay.

Speaker 2 Literally draw a circle in the middle.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And this is what I call a metacog.

Speaker 1 It's a who? A met

Speaker 2 a c o g meta metacog.

Speaker 1 Metacog. Okay, I got a metacog circle right here.
What am I doing?

Speaker 2 It looks a bit like a concept map or a mind map, if anyone knows what those are.

Speaker 1 No, I don't.

Speaker 2 Okay, so it's you start in the, okay, never mind. You start in the middle.
Yeah. Not over here and work left to right because that limits your ability to think in a broader way.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. So what am I doing in the circle?

Speaker 2 All you're going to do now is you're just going to write what you think, the thought of a hate boss. You're going to write their hate boss.

Speaker 2 So you write what you think is the sort of, what is the thought you're working on? What is this thought that's bugging you? It's, I hate my boss or whatever. Okay.

Speaker 1 Or I'll never be successful. I always screw up.
Like, I'm always getting passed over. I'm never going to make the money.
Like, it could be.

Speaker 2 I want you to get more specific than that. Okay.
Because this is not in life in general. We're going to go specifically to the example you chose.

Speaker 2 So this, this particular example, we're not going to go broad. This is the mistake everyone makes.
All of us. It's This is not pointing fingers at anyone.
We all do this. We go, phew, bro.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. That's why my mind's a mess, Dr.
Leaf. Because I go all over the place.

Speaker 1 All of us are. We all of us are.
Okay, so you're now got a work problem and you have a lot of stress around work. And so you're literally going to stay focused on that.

Speaker 2 Because that's what you want to solve now. Because you woke up this morning and that's the problem that's worrying you right now.
That's your intrusive thought. That's your best friend.

Speaker 2 That's what's popped up.

Speaker 1 Dr. Leaf, this feels like a great moment to hit the pause.
I have a ton more that I want to dig into with you, but let's hear a word from our amazing sponsors.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins.
Thank you for taking a moment to share this episode with somebody that you care about.

Speaker 1 Thank you for being here and being interested in your own mind and learning how to use it for good instead of constantly using it to beat yourself up. And Dr.

Speaker 1 Caroline Leaf has got more of her pioneering research to unpack. And so, Dr.
Leaf, the next thing that I want to talk to you about is this. If I've got a mental mess.

Speaker 1 And my thoughts are all over the place, and I can easily go from one intrusive thought to get a message.

Speaker 2 I'm going to give you a trick to do that. Please.
Here's a trick. So it's called the thinker moment.

Speaker 1 Thinker moment?

Speaker 2 That isn't think, thinker moment. So what you do is you think, oh, I don't know what thought to work on.
My mind's everywhere, like you've just described.

Speaker 2 So you shut your eyes, you close off the external world, and you switch on to your internal world.

Speaker 2 That creates a beautiful activity through the mind-band-body network that enables you to then just allow the free flow of thoughts.

Speaker 2 In that free flow of thoughts, what you do is you observe that free flow of thoughts and you see which is the one that's popping up the most in this moment.

Speaker 2 There's probably 10 things popping up or 20.

Speaker 1 You know what actually just happened for me when I closed my eyes? What happened? And I don't even like have this issue right now with work. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But when I closed my eyes and imagined moments in my life where I absolutely hated my job. I mean, I'm talking, I was in my 20s.
I was working for this big law firm here in Boston.

Speaker 1 I had left my dream job of being a public defender in New York City. I would commute in on the train.
And like, as the train was like,

Speaker 1 the closer we got, I just felt more and more of a pit in my stomach as I would walk from the commuter rail, you know, through the blocks, past the Dunkin' Donut, take a, take a right.

Speaker 1 I think it was on High Street, H-I-G-H. I would then walk up to the building.
I would then go into the lobby. I'd say hello to Ralph, who's sitting at the front desk.

Speaker 1 I would get into the lobby with every other miserable person in a corporate building. And I'd go all the way up to the 17th floor.

Speaker 1 And I'd always contemplate that there was no 13th floor in this building. So they must have been superstitious.
And then I would get out and I just felt dread.

Speaker 1 And when I closed my eyes and put myself there,

Speaker 1 it's kind of cool. All of that noise left.
And I literally thought,

Speaker 1 I'm stuck here.

Speaker 1 Like, I have no,

Speaker 1 there's nothing I can, like, it was this sense of, I am going to feel like this. I'm stuck.
I've made the wrong, like, how did I, like sort of like, I can't get out of this.

Speaker 2 How to land up here.

Speaker 1 And so it became so much deeper. Like you talk about the root, you talk about the program.
You've taught us that our mind goes not just upstairs between the ears. It's down to the toes.

Speaker 1 Like when you close your eyes and do that. it goes a lot deeper because it wasn't about the boss at all.
It was about this core feeling of being alone and stuck. And I, yeah, the dread.

Speaker 2 And what you did was you allowed yourself to tap into an unconscious. Your non-conscious knows exactly what's disruptive to you in this moment.
All right, now.

Speaker 1 So what do we do next?

Speaker 2 Okay, so you asked what to write to us. You would write those four signals.

Speaker 2 What were the emotions? Write the emotions on. What were the behaviors? What were the perspectives? What were the body sensations? What words came up? Just write them all over the page.

Speaker 2 They can be onlines, in bubbles.

Speaker 1 Just put all over the page. I just had this huge insight about the stuckness.
If you have an insight like that when you close your eyes, is that enough? Or do you still need to?

Speaker 2 Yeah, because you're not going to get it?

Speaker 1 Everything that you do has branches. And I'm starting to realize it's because we're not.
It's connected. Yes.

Speaker 1 And it's also that you're, you're catching yourself in the moment, but you're also doing the work of

Speaker 1 getting to the deeper program.

Speaker 2 That's why you need tomorrow and the next day. And then you're not going to solve it today.

Speaker 2 You'll get control of the dreadful today, but walk yourself through the 10-second pools, walk yourself through gather awareness, walk yourself through reflect, walk yourself through this.

Speaker 2 Now you say, okay, let's have a look at this. Okay, Mel, let's have a look at this.

Speaker 1 Now, is this the recheck part? Recheck.

Speaker 2 Step four. We're going to reconceptualize.
We're going to look at this from another angle. This is what's happened.
What can we do about it now? Not forever, not next week.

Speaker 2 Now, how do I get through today?

Speaker 2 This moment. How can I see this differently? Well, today maybe is day one.

Speaker 2 So you might just say, oh, I just realized that because you described in absolute depth about the 13th floor right up to the 17th and the high street. That your realization there,

Speaker 2 what I would say with your reconceptualization as you recheck this is, wow, it's imprinted so much on my mind.

Speaker 2 mind every moment of getting to that office to the 17th floor was pure and utter dread and every day i just reinforced it grew more and more in my head wow that's what's happened that's enough for the recheck for that day just that awareness on day one tomorrow you can start doing some more on it but just the awareness wow that level of detail that i attention that i paid to that process it's linked to that dread it's linked to i'm in the wrong i think i must be in the wrong place i don't have a solution yet i've got to go to work today i don't have another job i don't don't know if that's the solution.

Speaker 2 I don't know yet, but it's okay. It's okay to not be okay.
So, now, what can I do? First step: active reach, actively reach for something that you can do to get you through the day.

Speaker 1 What if you don't know what to do? Because I think that's the thing. Like, when you first start this, yeah,

Speaker 1 and you actually become present to what you're feeling, which is the first step.

Speaker 1 What is one thing that somebody who is starting to apply this to interrupt and to work this neuro cycle, which is you actively, consciously using your mind to interrupt the negative thoughts and energy in these five steps.

Speaker 1 What is one thing that you could do as an example of active reach if you can't think of something?

Speaker 2 So something really simple is just repeats. It's okay to be a mess.
It's okay to feel like this. It's a statement, a phrase.
It could be a visualization.

Speaker 2 And what you do, so it could be something as simple as, wow, i'm actually starting to see something well done it could be a simple phrase like that and you could imagine if you like to visualize you could imagine a beautiful flower and then what you do is you take the phrase you attach it to the visual and then as you go through the day each time you feel the dread emerging you're not suppressing but you're going to deal with it tomorrow and the reason you deal with the tomorrow is because our physical brain body and conscious mind don't have the same level of energy as the non-conscious the non-conscious has unlimited energy so it's always going to be popping stuff up so it's always going to to keep coming up.

Speaker 1 You can be like, you can go through this and then just literally, even if you're like, okay, I'm recognizing it. This is a good thing.
Or I'm capable of figuring this out. Exactly.
That's my favorite.

Speaker 1 I'm capable of figuring out. You're reaching for something positive.
I can, mindset.

Speaker 2 I can mindset. I don't know what is, but I can.
Somehow I can get through this. I've got two things before.
So is this to find something?

Speaker 1 I can. I can mindset.

Speaker 1 I can get through this. I can figure this out.
I can create a different experience in my life.

Speaker 1 I can use the tools Dr. Leaf taught me.
I can. I can use my mind to heal my body and my brain.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Exactly.
So you take that. And then what you would do is the key thing is you don't have to put it onto a visual, but you can

Speaker 2 is to then every time that you go, as you go through the day, every time you feel the dread emerging and you just, you don't allow yourself to go there, you grab the active reach.

Speaker 2 The active reach keeps you anchored in the moment and keeps you, keeps that thought up with a deconstruction process happening. Then the next day, you pick up where you end it.
Okay, now let's see.

Speaker 2 What do I feel today? And then you go through the the same cycle again and so you move through after 63 days you would have recreated a new habit it doesn't take 21 days to build a habit it takes 63.

Speaker 2 The 21 days is the hard work. And then the other 42 days is much easier, still the neurocycle.
You do it daily, but it stabilizes the thought. And there's an up and down journey there.

Speaker 2 So for people to realize that if I'm changing a habit or I'm healing a trauma from the past, it's not going to happen in one neurocycle. You need a neurocycle daily.

Speaker 2 The first 21 days are hard, up and down. And then the balance of 42 are where you stabilize it into a habit.

Speaker 2 People are good at intending to change, but they tend to stop around day 14, day 21, day 28, because those are the days where you think, oh, I kind of got this.

Speaker 2 I've been working at this and I feel okay. But if you stop at day 28, you'll go straight back.
If you stop at day 36, you'll start reverting.

Speaker 2 It's for people to know that in the journey, there is an actual 63-day process to turn it into a habit.

Speaker 2 It's like watering a plant. If you don't keep adding water, it's going to die.
So you've got to grow that network. It has to be grown with energy added daily.

Speaker 2 And then once it's grown to a certain point, then you just do it without even, you are thinking, but it's become automatized. Habits are built one tiny bit at a time.

Speaker 2 You will not solve this on day one. This is a big issue.

Speaker 1 you can't just leave the job as you mentioned you can't just get rid of months of dread and you're never going to leave the job though if you continue to allow your mind you're just going to power you with negativity and nasty thoughts.

Speaker 2 She's going to become an unhappy victim person who's just victim mentality, nasty, unhappy, hate life, depressed, whatever. And you don't need to go there.
You really don't.

Speaker 2 But you need to, but you're not going to solve it in one day. And that's really key.
So that's it. I don't want to hear that.
And I know you don't want to hear that. Nor does anyone.

Speaker 2 So the first 21 days is hard work. It's quite stressful.

Speaker 1 You go out. But tell me the good news.
That there is amazing news, though, because just like you say,

Speaker 1 using this simple five-step process and even understanding that you can is a giant step forward.

Speaker 1 But there's even better news here. Yeah, there is.

Speaker 1 And the better news is that based on your new clinical research and the new, what is going to be mega best-selling book, Help in a Hurry, you have also established based on research that you can in 63 seconds stop yourself.

Speaker 1 from a negative thought or emotional spiral. How so?

Speaker 2 Yes. Okay.
So it's that point where you feel like you can't do too much. You're going to, you know, just like someone says something to you, you want to punch them in the face.

Speaker 2 You can't punch them in the face, but you can get yourself back under control. The moments where...

Speaker 1 Oh, I got an email yesterday that was like,

Speaker 1 and I, I immediately felt like I was in trouble and that I done, here we go again. The negative, here, that I'd done something wrong.
Here's that intrusive thought again.

Speaker 1 And it started to spiral. I felt it in my chest.
I didn't know how to respond to it. I was slightly annoyed that this person felt this way about something that had happened.

Speaker 1 It was all business related. And what do you do in that moment? Because we've all had that moment where you literally get a text from somebody and you're like,

Speaker 1 and you just want to just text Brackel caps. And how do you stop it?

Speaker 2 Okay, so in that actual moment, the first thing that you need to do is to acknowledge it.

Speaker 2 The minute you say it, even if it's in your head, or you can write it, the minute it comes out, you take the power.

Speaker 2 If it's inside, it basically builds up the wrong hormones like when you cry if you're in grief and you cry you're actually taking the hormones out that if you kept them in would make the grief worse so you're crying out it's amazing yeah it's amazing okay so i just want to make so so something happens and here's one that everybody can relate to you get the text yeah we need to talk yeah and then your heart just like i mean just even that tone all of us have had that

Speaker 2 what has just happened oh no what am i going to do so it's in that moment that the first thing you're going to do is say out loud or in your head this text makes me feel like this.

Speaker 2 It's the acknowledgement.

Speaker 1 I have to say it out loud.

Speaker 2 Preferably, but if

Speaker 2 you say it in your head, this text freaks me out, but because of why.

Speaker 1 Oh, we need the because.

Speaker 2 Yes, you add the because of why.

Speaker 1 Why is the because important?

Speaker 2 Because then you're giving yourself, you're getting it all out and you're giving yourself a reason. And as you start saying the because, you see, oh, what?

Speaker 2 Maybe it's not so bad, or maybe I can handle it because immediately solutions will come. The minute that you acknowledge and say it.

Speaker 1 That's why I think I'm like because, because I think I'm in trouble and I think I did something wrong. Like

Speaker 1 literally goes back to the same thing.

Speaker 2 Then you go a little further and you say, okay, but why do I think I've done something wrong? If you can't answer, well, I don't know why, but that's their perception. They've obviously got a reason.

Speaker 2 I don't need to take it inside of me.

Speaker 1 So if you get the text, we need to talk. And then you feel the spiral.
Step one is you've got to say it out loud.

Speaker 2 Literally, this text makes me

Speaker 1 feel like terrified because I think they're going to break up with me.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And then as soon as you've done that, it's out.
It hasn't had time to lodge.

Speaker 1 got it oh i love that

Speaker 2 it's like vomiting when you eat something that's like yes okay that's what help in a hurry is it's vomiting out the punch the first person in the face the pressure comes

Speaker 1 so you're getting it out it's the tears when you're sad it's you're just getting it out

Speaker 2 and then there's various ways you can deconstruct so what i've done in the actual book help in a hurry is i've gone through various scenarios like the this sort of thing when you get the text in the moment or help i'm under pressure or help i'm in black and white thinking or people pleasing or um the intrusive thoughts all these things that catch us in the moment.

Speaker 2 And there's lots of different techniques that you can use and you just choose what you don't have to use all of them.

Speaker 2 There's just different, but they all start out with this fact of let's first acknowledge this is how we're feeling. We all want to just push it down.

Speaker 2 We're in a society where suppression is kind of the name of the game. And that's not what we want to do.
We also can't just have it come out and not do something with it.

Speaker 2 That's why I say when you say it, when you let it come out, in that 63, 63 seconds, there's enough time for you to say, wow, I did not expect this text.

Speaker 2 This text says this, this, and even read the text out loud.

Speaker 2 This is like crazy. Okay, this is making me feel like, I like sick.
I can't believe this. I feel like I'm going to get mad.
I'm angry. I want to react.

Speaker 2 I want to say this and even write that down or say it out loud. I want to say these things.
But this is, okay, this is not realistic. I can't do that now.
I have to function.

Speaker 2 I have to see the bigger picture. I have to stand back and observe and see the bigger picture of this thing.
And then what can I do in this absolute moment? So it's a mini-neurocycle.

Speaker 2 You're doing a mini-neur. You're actually actually gone through all five steps.
You're gathering awareness of the different signals. You're kind of seeing what it generates.

Speaker 2 Wow, this, this, this, this, this. You're saying, okay, well, I don't really know what they mean.
I'm going to find out, but I need to.

Speaker 2 And the act of reach would be, all right, I'm going to prepare myself. I don't think I've done something wrong.

Speaker 1 Or if I have, I'm okay.

Speaker 2 I can handle this. Whatever they tell me, I can get, I can.

Speaker 1 I can statement.

Speaker 2 I can statement. So it's, that's the moralist thing.
And then there's little tricks that you can do.

Speaker 1 Like, well, what I love about this example and the way that you described it is it kind of brings brings us full circle yeah because

Speaker 1 when you can't ever control what other people are going to be doing or the text that they're going to send or the things that are going to go down in your life and when you receive a text like that we need to talk that is input and your mind which you have taught us takes that text from the outside world translates it through energy into your entire body and every cell,

Speaker 1 creating an emotional response,

Speaker 1 feelings and thoughts about the thing.

Speaker 1 And if it is immediately messy, negative, traumatic, scary,

Speaker 1 overwhelming, now what's happened is your mind has taken something from the outside world and actually turned it into negative energy and thoughts that then start impacting.

Speaker 1 everything about how your body and brain function. And what you just taught us is that if that takes hold in 63 seconds, it sort of now is part of your reaction.
It's in the programming.

Speaker 1 But if you can get it out and literally say, this text makes me nervous because I think I'm in trouble.

Speaker 2 You design the network because it's still going to go in, but you drive the neuroplasticity.

Speaker 1 Now you're driving what gets in and what doesn't.

Speaker 1 And then when you say, I don't like this, but I can figure this out, or or I don't like how I feel right now because of this text, but I can handle this.

Speaker 1 Like the I can thing now inputs positive, energetic programming that reinforces a different network.

Speaker 1 Oh my God, that's so cool.

Speaker 2 Exactly that. And then you know what you've also done? You've bypassed the toddler just getting stuck.
You've accessed, you've dived straight down into your wisdom.

Speaker 2 You may not feel it in that moment, but it'll stop you freaking out, saying the wrong thing, responding with a negative email, you know, reacting instead of responding.

Speaker 2 It'll keep you in response mode as opposed to react mode. So when you do actually get in the scenario where they talk to you,

Speaker 2 then you're calm, you're resilient. You're not living in chaos land.
You're living in non-conscious land. You want to constantly dive in and access the non-conscious.

Speaker 2 So I don't know what the solution is going to be, but it's in you.

Speaker 2 But you can't hear it if you're in chaos. So the 63 seconds is to get you out of chaos.

Speaker 1 That's great.

Speaker 2 And get you into that place where you can. It's really great.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I'm going to come back to this wiggling toes. I think there's something here.

Speaker 1 Because I know you talked about visualizing a flower, but when I said the I can figure this out, I sort of just wiggled my toes. Perfect.
And everyone's in virtual.

Speaker 1 But what's only to basically pull the programming down to the roots here. Exactly.
And so I think if you were to do something like you're in the actual conversation, we need to talk.

Speaker 1 And you start to feel the tense coming in because now your mind is taking the energy and interpreting it.

Speaker 1 You could literally go, you know, I know I'm feeling tense because I don't know what's going to happen. You're thinking of this, wiggle your toes and be like, I can figure this out.

Speaker 1 I'm going to be okay.

Speaker 2 Perfect. You got it.
You get a signal that works for yourself. That's why I'll give you a million different techniques in the book.

Speaker 2 But there's, you work that out because what people generally will do, what we've been taught to do, is breathe. Yeah, we know we're going to breathe.
And the breathe is oxygen.

Speaker 1 But the breathe just shoves down the thing that I'm scared of that's already in my brain.

Speaker 2 So exactly. And notice that I said earlier on, when you breathe, you must attach the correct cognitive message on top of it.

Speaker 2 So you are breathing, but you can't in the middle of a conversation suddenly go and count, you know, you, or if you get triggered, you know, you can't like the sipping, you can't do that.

Speaker 2 People will think you, unless you, whatever.

Speaker 1 I've got to wiggle my toes.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 2 You wiggle your toes, you keep yourself focused, and then you just repeat it in your head. You repeat back what they've said.

Speaker 2 You talk to, you pretend you're taking notes in the conversation and you said, they just said this effing, awful thing to me and whatever.

Speaker 2 That's your, no one has to see your piece of paper, but it's, you've got it out. And now you redesign the network.
You drive the direction.

Speaker 2 And that's what the neurocycle concept is doing it's giving you the power to drive neuroplasticity so dr leaf if the person

Speaker 1 who is listening

Speaker 1 after i mean the amount that you have taught us today absolutely unbelievable

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 if the person listening does just one thing or takes one thing away from this what would you

Speaker 1 want the most important thing to be?

Speaker 2 I think there's so many, but I think the most important thing is to realize that your mind is not your brain

Speaker 2 and that your mind is the 99% of who you are, and that you can change. You can't change your story, but you can change what it looks like inside of you and therefore how it plays out into the future.

Speaker 1 Amazing. Dr.
Leaf, what are your parting words?

Speaker 2 You cannot control the events and circumstances of your life, but you can control your reactions to the events and circumstances.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you for just, this is is extraordinary. Thank you.

Speaker 1 You have a real gift in terms of being able to explain something

Speaker 1 so insanely scientific and intellectual and complicated in a way that I can understand, the person listening can understand. Thank you.

Speaker 1 I know that people are going to share this with everybody in their life that they love and care about because we all need your work in our lives.

Speaker 1 And I really, really appreciate how you broke it all down. And I feel very optimistic.
And what's super cool is I believe you. Like I, like, I really

Speaker 1 believe

Speaker 1 that when you understand

Speaker 1 everything that you just taught us and you truly embrace the power of what your almost 40 years of groundbreaking research has proven, that you can leverage the power of your mind and the way that it's powering your body and your brain and its capacity to literally reprogram the experience of being you.

Speaker 1 Like, how exciting is that?

Speaker 2 So exciting, isn't it? Thank you for seeing what I'm trying to do and what I've been trying to do all these years and will continue to do till

Speaker 1 we never.

Speaker 1 Never stop. Don't, don't stop.
And, you know, I also want to thank you. Thank you for listening all the way until this moment.

Speaker 1 Thank you for really investing time into learning something that is so powerful and to really thinking about the power that you have in the beauty of your mind to heal yourself, to reprogram what it feels like to be you, to make changes.

Speaker 1 So does everybody in your life. You heard Dr.
Leaf say she is teaching these techniques to kids as young as two. We all need to learn this.

Speaker 1 So thank you for sharing this with people that you care about.

Speaker 1 And I also wanted to say, in case no one else tells you, that I love you and i believe in you and i believe in your ability to create a better life and you know i don't know that i've ever felt more optimistic about it now that i truly grasp the power of what dr leaf's research has proven to be true that through the power of your mind you can heal trauma you can change your brain you can change your life and it doesn't cost a thing to actually do it.

Speaker 1 Alrighty, I will see you in a few days. I'll be waiting for you the moment you play in the very next episode.
I'll see you there. I'll be waiting to welcome you in.

Speaker 1 Oh, let me wait until that goes. It's garbage day.

Speaker 1 I'm waiting for the big lift up of the dumpster and then they tip it back.

Speaker 2 And then it makes even more noise.

Speaker 1 Are they still out there? Sounds like they might be gone. No?

Speaker 1 All right, let's try it.

Speaker 1 Oh, Jesus. Okay.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 1 I've never experienced it like this. Is it construction? Because it seems like construction.

Speaker 1 Really? There's so much noise. It's hilarious.
Yes. Oh, shame.

Speaker 1 Oh, do you need to use the process?

Speaker 2 Good one.

Speaker 2 She needs a neurocycle quickly.

Speaker 1 You need a neurocycle very quickly. I love this.

Speaker 1 My mouth is like the Sahara Desert.

Speaker 2 And this is what I call a metacog.

Speaker 1 It's a big. A who?

Speaker 2 A meta-m-e-t-a-c-o-g. MetaCog.

Speaker 1 Meta Cog. Okay, here she is.
Dr. Lee.

Speaker 1 Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper.
This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.

Speaker 1 This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

Speaker 1 I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good.

Speaker 1 I'll see you in the next episode.

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