This Life-Changing Conversation Will Help You Make Peace With Who You Are

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

I am so glad you're here because you're about to meet someone unlike any other guest who has ever been on the Mel Robbins podcast.

Now, I first discovered him on Instagram a couple years ago.

He was standing there playing the ukulele,

totally relaxed, smiling and singing this beautiful song.

He had the most extraordinary voice.

Warm, folksy, wise, kind, gentle, yet strong.

He had the most peaceful presence and just unbelievable energy flowing through the screen, right at me, through my phone.

My shoulders dropped.

I was immediately hooked, an instant fan.

There was just something about him.

So I started following him, and then I learned more more about his story.

I learned that he was born into a brutal civil war in Liberia.

He narrowly escaped the life of a child soldier.

He was rescued and brought to the United States as a refugee.

And that as life-changing as all of that was for him, it didn't mean a happily ever after.

It meant a whole new set of challenges.

identity crisis, isolation, grief, so many questions, the biggest one being, who am I?

And if you've ever felt lost, you've probably asked yourself that question too.

And that's why the conversation you're about to hear is life-changing.

If you're wondering, well, who is this guy, Mel?

His name is Monrovia.

And he's not just on Instagram and TikTok anymore.

He is playing on stages around the world, which is why I'm extra thrilled that he made the time to get on a plane and be here in our Boston studios for one reason, to talk to you.

This episode is for anyone who has ever felt like an outsider, or questioned if you belong, or wondered if your story is worth telling.

By the time you're done listening, you will know deep in your soul that you have an amazing part to play in this world, and you are going to feel so reassured that you are already on your way to discovering who you are meant to truly be.

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.

I am on the edge of my seat.

I am so excited for our conversation today.

I'm excited that you're here.

It is always such an honor to spend this time together.

But today, the fact that I get to meet somebody that I've admired at the same moment you get to meet them, that is just a thrill.

And if you're new to the podcast, I wanted to personally take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast family.

I'm so glad that you're here with me right now.

And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode today, here's what I know about you.

First of all, I know that you value your time.

So it means a lot to me that you made the decision to hit play.

And you're going to be so happy that you did because something magical is about to happen.

And if you're listening right now because someone shared this conversation with you, it's because I was right.

Something magical did happen in this episode and they wanted you to experience it too.

And so does my incredible guest today, Monrovia.

Monrovia is a phenomenon, a one-of-a-kind musician from Tennessee who has carved out time from a busy touring schedule to be here for this special conversation.

You and I are going to be swept away not only by his story, but by his humility, his compassion, and the message that he is here to tell you today.

It's a message that's going to leave you feeling loved, empowered, and clear.

Mon's life story sounds like a movie, and every bit of it is true.

Mon grew up carrying a history.

and feelings that he couldn't fully explain until he found music.

And now his music is finding people all over the world.

I mean, just look at his TikTok.

His videos have 17 million likes and a bunch of them, they're from me.

And what he's creating doesn't just cross genres, it crosses continents, generations, and life experiences.

Mon blends his Afro-Appalachian roots with raw personal storytelling, a sound so distinct, so grounding and folksy singer-songwriter, it earned him a spot on Spotify's 2024 Juniper Artist to Watch list.

He now reaches over 1.5 million monthly listeners on the platform, proof that his voice is resonating way beyond the stage.

At a Monrovia concert, that is something to behold.

He has sold out every headline show he's ever played.

He's taken the stage at Bonnaroo, Austin City Limits, and the legendary Newport Folk Festival.

This year, this rising star is going global with a sold-out European tour that he just completed and U.S.

appearances at major festivals, including Boston Calling and a return to Newport.

I mean, this guy is a rising star.

But more importantly, there is so much wisdom, not only in his music, but in his life story and what he wants to share with you today, that you can take whatever has happened to you in the past and make something beautiful out of it.

So please help me welcome Monrovia to the Mel Robbins podcast.

Monrovia, I am so excited to meet you in person.

Thank you for jumping on a plane.

Thank you for being here.

Congratulations on all your success.

I am so excited to talk to you.

It's a complete honor.

And yeah, I'm really just, yeah, stoked to be to be in this place with you right now.

So thank you so much for giving me space to tell my story.

I would love to start by having you speak to the person.

who is with us right now.

This is somebody who doesn't have a lot of time, but they have hit play.

They're making the time to learn from your story, to learn from your wisdom.

What might they experience that could be different about their life if they truly take to heart all of the wisdom and lessons that you're about to teach us from your own life journey?

Yeah, I think something that I hope for just that one person is to know that life is full of suffering, but it doesn't take away from you belonging in it, that you have such an amazing part to play in the scheme of things.

And so,

yeah, I mean, talking about my stories and the music, all I do it for is for you to know that your time here is meant.

How do you cultivate that belief?

And I'm sure we're going to get into it.

If you're in a place in your life where you are really suffering, how do you get yourself to believe that you're meant to be here and that there's something bigger for you?

I think it comes back to memory.

And if you can think of your life and the things you've already come through and you're still standing, you're still, regardless if you're on the floor, you're still here present with us.

And memory is an important part of the art of continuation, knowing that you've come through things already and believing that you will again until you get to that place where maybe you're more, you know, fulfilled and strengthened is the ways I've kept myself going forward.

For somebody who is just meeting you for the first time, you know, I was introduced to you through a very, very dear friend of mine.

I have been following you online for 18 months.

I'm so proud of you.

Thank you.

Your music does feel like waking up from a dream.

It immediately makes my shoulders drop.

I am so excited to see you exploding in terms of popularity and the recognition for your music.

But for the person who hasn't hasn't heard you sing, has not heard your music, does not know your story, how would you describe the music that you create and the kind of artistry that you're putting into the world?

The music I create,

I think for one, is peaceful.

When you enter, you know, when that song comes on, my hope for you is to

have you lose anxiety for you to be able to sink in and think about,

I think, the importance importance of one yourself.

And

I hope my music takes people into

that realm and that they can then, I would say, understand

just how important they are.

So that's kind of the main purpose of the music.

Yeah.

Did you always know you wanted to be a musician?

No, no, not at all.

Yeah, I think I had this gift of

making music, but I was a very shy person.

I was really quiet growing up.

I mean, I've come from a lot.

You know, I've gone, had gone through a lot of things at a young age already.

And so, you know, I, to simulate as well, in America, I think a lot of my life I was watchful, trying to see what my place was and how to act

as an African-American in a white household in more of a middle-class space, private school.

So a lot of my life was watchful.

I didn't, I wanted to play the part well.

And I think that was something that

just became what I was early on.

I love that word watchful.

It's so relatable.

Because regardless of where you come from or who you are or what family you're in, I think we've all had those experiences where we enter a space or we enter a group of people or we enter a chapter of our life and we say, I'm not sure I belong or I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do.

And this idea of stepping back and watching.

Wow.

I really get that about you.

And I can think of moments in my life where I felt that way too.

And I think it's something that we do when we also feel lost.

Yeah.

And it's probably a part of how you figure out how to find your way and find yourself.

Yeah.

And it also protects you from, at the time, you know, at the time, from saying things maybe that you shouldn't say or, you know, maybe social cues that you don't understand coming from different places or things like this.

So it was definitely a protection.

you know, mechanism for me as well.

You know, you mentioned that one of the things that you hope people feel is peace when they listen to your music.

But one of the big themes that you have is you talk a lot about healing.

In fact, the tour that you're on right now, heal with others.

And I've also seen you use the quote, healing out loud.

And your mission to me is clearly more than just making music and going on tour.

And that stuff is all incredible.

But can you talk a little bit more about why

healing with others and this sense of creating and cultivating peace within yourself is such an important thing for you?

Yeah, it's important to me because I suffered a lot alone.

Even being surrounded by a lot of people, I

had that feeling.

And that's not just, you know, known to me.

There's people like that all the time.

You work big jobs.

You're in a place where you're surrounding people, but you still go home and you're like, wow.

No one understands me or what I'm going through.

And music for me was that journal, that outlet where I could be honest with my feelings.

And when I kind of started to do music a little bit more full-time, I saw that how this could relate to other people as well.

And so, you know, I think the mission was birthed from one, me, seeing how successful it was on myself, trying to form a community that way.

So, it's been amazing just to see it, see it do what it's done.

You and I are about to get into your remarkable life story.

And you're young.

I mean, like, I'm like a grandma compared to you.

Stop.

So time is time.

What is time?

What is time?

I,

but, you know, you literally, when I think about the extraordinary number of experiences ranging from war to adoption to moving to another country to now finding yourself on stages around the world and being laser focused on this message of peace and healing.

What does it say to you that

your music and your story is resonating with millions of people around the world?

I think it's a needed thing, you know, and I don't think enough people are sinking into that space where you give someone the space to really have quiet and an intimate time with themselves.

The world is fast moving.

It's, it's loud.

And that's why, you know, being having the ukulele or we didn't even have drums for a while in

a lot of my sets, right?

People were still into just the sound and the experience and the words and the storytelling.

And it brought them back to situations and moments in their own life where they can really look at it clearly, look at the mirror, that one that we all try to run away from all the time.

And so it says a lot to me.

It says that it's important, the work I'm doing.

And I just hope to continue.

in it as best I can.

Well, there's no doubt you're going to.

Well, it's, yeah, it's hard.

It's not easy.

What's hard about it?

I think it's so much easier to pour and pour things that are detrimental, like anger and selfishness, and

sink into that, sink that into the earth instead.

Like the outpouring of love is hard, and the outpouring of grace and forgiveness doesn't come easily.

to us as humans.

And so

I think for me personally as the artist,

it can weigh on you at times, you know, the giving of it if you don't have a place to be refilled.

And so that's also why community is so important.

It goes back to that.

Because to do the work that must be done for good, you have to have also that mooring of people that you know you can go back and get replenished to go again.

So, you know, when I first heard you, somebody sent me your Instagram account and I, you know, hit play on one of your songs.

And I'm like, who is this guy?

Is it like, this is like, and I, and I hate to even be referenced, I'm like, is this like Cat Stevens or is this Yusuf Nador?

Like, what is happening here?

And you have this incredible,

it's like you defy the category that people want to put you in.

You call yourself, in terms of the music, I've heard it called Appalachia Folk.

Yeah, Afro-Appalachian.

What does that mean?

I mean, I was, I live in Appalachia.

So like that tail end down in Tennessee.

And I'm from West Africa, Liberia, capital city, Monrovia.

And,

you know, there's a lot of history in Appalachia with, you know, the slaves that came over, the Irish, the Scots, and the mountains, you know, writing these songs together, you know, the banjo, all these things mixing together in culture.

And I didn't even know a lot of this living in Tennessee, to be honest.

I learned this history as people started to say things like you, like, oh, you're cats, you're this.

I didn't know

the lore of the history of folk and everything like this but in the space of being in tennessee and seeing the correlation of how

this is history

it's yeah i don't know it it's it's been a powerful thing to be to have it revealed to me this way uh because i wasn't trying to be you know i don't think anything with afro appalachia or i just made music that i thought would help me on the journey of my life

Yeah.

Well, let's talk about the journey of your life because you were born in Liberia.

Yeah.

And in the midst of civil war and all of this violence, your life changed forever when you were seven years old.

Yeah.

Can you tell me what happened?

Absolutely.

So my mom, you know, she's a working woman.

And so she had a couple kids along the way.

A lot of them passed away during the war.

So me, my brother, and my brother,

Timothy, my sister, Tikum Blah, who we call Jacqueline because their name's just super hard to say.

You know, us three, we lived.

And she, you know, she kept us and raised us as best she could.

She passed away

in childbirth with our other brother.

And so it was just my grandmother, you know, taking care of us at this time.

And it was hard during the war.

There wasn't, there was nothing, you know, and this missionary family that had been working in Monrovia

had been doing things in the community.

And one of my aunts decided to go and literally just bring me to them.

Like there was no,

I mean, it could have been been my sister, it could have been my other brother that was chosen, but they, she picked me up and said, you're going to go live with this family.

And so from that day on, I lived with them.

Yeah, just in, in Liberia.

And we lived through the war before we met, went back to the States for a little bit.

And I don't think, I don't think when I became older, I realized how much it did to my mind.

I think like being pulled from your land, the language.

similarity of people didn't have the words for it then.

I didn't speak.

I was quiet for a long time.

Yeah, my adopted family tells me this all the time.

They're like, yeah, you didn't say a word to us.

We thought something was like, something was wrong with you.

I was like, yeah, probably there was something wrong with me.

I just, I didn't know who you were.

You were, these are these white people.

You know, so, um,

but did you have a sense when you said goodbye to your grandmother?

No, I didn't know it was goodbye.

I don't think.

Have you seen your brothers and sisters since this?

Man, such a tale to get to that.

But recently I did make contact with my sister after a long time of

really not paying attention to anything about it.

So it's been a very hard,

very hard

thing to

come to terms with.

I would imagine.

Yeah.

And I'm sure you'll continue to come to terms with it for your whole life.

I think that's how something that dramatic actually works.

Yeah.

You know,

it is something that

I wasn't ready for most of my life to look at

as I lived the American experience.

I think it's so easy

to feel ashamed of where you're from, even if it's you had no part to play in it.

So I try to kind of just bury a lot of those things

and forget.

And how is that working?

You know, the past, the fast is always in the undertow in the choices that you make.

And it never left until I looked at it and was ready to accept the truth.

What do you remember about what your life was like before this happened?

Like being a kid growing up in the middle of this really violent war in Liberia?

Because, you know, in case the person listening doesn't understand, like one of the things that was happening is they were taking young boys like you and turning them into soldiers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My two brothers, Saturday and Emmanuel, they fought in the war, you know, ages five to ten.

And I grew up in the, I, I, I was born in the midst of the fighting already.

So all I would have known is chaos and violence.

But before that, Liberia was a very beautiful place.

I mean, some of the friendliest people, and there was a lot of good going on.

There was a dictator that came in bringing child soldiers from neighboring countries into Liberia, overthrowing the government, and from there, kind of descending the country into chaos.

It destroyed everything.

I mean, even to this day, you know, Liberia is still trying to recover, but there's no law, you know, and you're obeying five-year-olds with AKs and RPGs, you know, like telling you, get on the ground, you know, we'll take your sister.

And you have to listen.

It's actually kind of insane to wrap your head around that that's possible.

One of the things that you said that was, I think, very relatable is that this sense of feeling a deep sense of shame about either where you've come from or your past or what's happened, even though you had no part to play and you are not responsible for what happened, and yet you carry that with you.

What would you say to the person that's listening?

that either feels that same sense of shame about their past or about where they've come from or about where they are now, or somebody that they love is feeling that way.

Like, what's possible in terms of how to move through something like that?

Yeah, no, that's a really good question.

I mean, for me, and I can only say it from my, I think from my own,

my own standpoint, but

I would tell you that

there's so much more, I would say, beyond

beyond beyond the past.

And

you can't let the past hold you and take you out of the world that you are meant to be a part of.

And it did that to me for a very long time.

And I sat and wallowed,

wilting, just

blaming myself for a lot of things.

And

it's such an easy thing to do, as Mel said.

But I hope you know the beauty of knowing that life is long and

step leads you somewhere

beyond the things that

want to capture you and take you back.

And the past is like this a lot to all of us.

And

I would just hope that

you always make it up your hills and around your corners because you just never know when good comes.

But it takes continuing.

So.

Continuing.

What does that word mean to you?

That word to me, I mean, that's,

I think, that's my whole life has been that word, actually.

It means finding another day.

You know, for me, there were so many times I wanted to quit and lay down and say, yeah, yeah, I can't do it.

I can't do this.

I can't overcome the survivor's guilt.

I can't overcome the truth of, you know,

the feelings I have with my, you know, my, my mother and things like this.

And I would tell myself,

through the gray, find another day,

another day to, to quit.

And it helped, it, it helped me to make it through each day.

I'd be like, not today.

I'll find another day.

And though I continued again, find another day.

I continued again until as choices come, I started to make better ones.

I started to see how far I had gone from my suffering into

the day, into this beautiful experience of life, into how where I am now.

And it wouldn't have happened if I didn't keep finding another day to do it.

I want to make sure that the person listening really gets that because when you first said it, I didn't quite get it.

And then I saw the genius in it.

And so let me try to unpack this and play this back to you to see if I'm interpreting this the right way.

Yeah, sure.

So when you said, find another day, right?

So nobody would blame you, by the way, if you're like, this is all just too much.

I just can't handle this anymore.

Yeah.

The genius in what you did to coach yourself through that, that I want to make sure that the person listening really gets is when you said, find another day, if Mel Robbins said it, it would have this like

tinge of positivity.

You actually had this genius thread through it, which, nope, nope, I'm going to find another day to quit.

Meaning, today's not the day I quit, but I'm giving myself permission to quit on another day if i want to yeah and there's so much truth and acknowledgement of how difficult the experience was and maybe some days still is to reconcile everything that's happened to you it's true and to give yourself permission to feel what you need to feel but when you say not today

I'm going to find another day to quit, but today is not the day I quit.

Today is not the day.

Right?

Yeah, absolutely.

There's something in the brutal honesty of that that I think makes it profoundly powerful.

You know, you talk about adoption in itself.

A lot of families think this.

I'm saying mine did, but and they were an amazing family.

But I'm saying, when I look at people that I know that are adopted that have been rescued from, you know, bad family or experiences around the world similar to mine, you know, a lot of these adopted families believe just that, that, oh,

you've been saved.

so you're good

and it's just not the case for those that are adopted people

you know there's there's so much depth

in

coming from you know

what is your

your lineage or bloodline but being torn from that torn from a mother or a father

It's

something that you have to carry through your entire life.

I want to be very clear to repeat back something that I heard, which is I don't hear you blaming your parents that adopted you.

In fact, you have talked about the fact that this was an incredible gift.

What I hear is you acknowledging the truth about how complicated an experience it can be for people who are being adopted, because you have this huge range of emotions.

You feel grateful for the fact that somebody has taken you into their family, but you also feel confusion, confusion as to whether or not you were wanted by your family.

And if like you, you were the only one adopted and you have siblings that are still somewhere else, you wonder why was it you?

And then on top of that, I would imagine that if you're coming from another country, that adds a whole host of other feelings that you may have about whether or not you belong, none of which is the fault of the adoptive parents.

And I'm sure if you're listening now and you've either been adopted or you're an adoptive parent, you know that this is true.

But perhaps you don't quite know how to create a space for all of those complicated feelings to be okay and to be talked about without somebody feeling bad.

I think that's what you're saying.

There's so many feelings wrapped up in it.

One,

you watch your siblings.

You see where they get certain traits from.

And again, I have characteristics of my adoption because I was young.

So I do have things, characteristics of like my dad, my adopted dad, adopted mom, but you watch and see, you know, the gait of their walk or a certain smile that comes across their face that looks like, you know, their mom or dad.

And you, and you wonder, you start to wonder, like, what,

and I have the song that I wrote about it called Whose Face Am I?

And you start to wonder, whose face am I?

What is my history?

What is my story?

And I just think for anybody that adopts,

yes, it's a beautiful experience and you're doing an amazing work because it's you're giving kids i think an opportunity to to live and also find themselves

um but i hope that as well you you never let them go through without telling them i think the truth of their

their starting point like even if it's a hard story and there's something that

will give them a lot of, I think,

identity in hearing where they've come from, regardless of how hard it is.

Is that something that was kept from you for a while?

I wouldn't say, I don't know, kept is interesting.

I don't know if it was kept really, but we didn't really talk about it.

And so when I tell you how I reached, my sister and I have now come back together, I was in a place to ask a lot of different things

about my story.

And honestly, that's, that's kind of healed me the most throughout my, my entire time.

What were some of the most surprising or reassuring things that you learned about your story that helped you heal?

Well, I learned a lot about my mother.

And I think the root of my suffering, which is an important piece, is it always been around her and not knowing her and not knowing the feelings that maybe she had or how I, you know, if I had come from, if I had come into this world based on love or based on other things.

And so.

It was tough because, you know, I found out some other things about just, you know, what she had to do during the war, right, to survive.

And some of those things were really heavy for me to hear.

But I also found out in the middle of that that she loved me very much.

And

she,

you know, decided to keep us, you know, I mean, think about the sacrifice of

a woman deciding to have a child in war and like being like, I'm going to try to take care of them in this experience.

It's just, it's, it made me feel very, very loved.

Can I ask you a really personal question?

And we can edit this out.

but I'm just curious about this.

So, was part of your concern that

you were conceived because of sexual violence that was happening during the war?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, and that actually can be in the, I don't, that doesn't bother me one bit.

It's the truth of the matter.

And that was something as a kid that I was always afraid to

ask, to wonder.

I didn't want to wonder about that.

And is that what happened?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so growing up, I mean, people will say many things.

They say, you know,

you could, you know, maybe I was a bastard and things like this.

Like, I thought about this at a young age.

Like, I was already, already pretty in tune about just a lot of the world.

So I wondered a lot.

And

yeah, it made me very, I felt very alone thinking about this.

And I remember speaking to my sister, and I'll tell you the story.

I was driving with my manager to my manager's coming from a tour.

And I'm speaking to my sister listening.

I have my headphones in.

She's telling me this story.

And,

you know, and I was like, so tell me about my mom.

And she says, oh, her mom was, you know, she was so beautiful,

kind, hilarious, because she remembers, she's older than me, so she remembers a lot more.

And I was like, well, so what about my dad?

And

she tells a story of how, you know, things went down.

And

I remember I sat in the back and I, I just wept.

Yeah, I cried those tears that I had held in for a very long time when it came to that part of

my story.

Faced it, you know, accepted it.

Yeah, from violence, still beautiful things can come.

And I think that is

what brought me a lot of peace there.

The love afterwards, I think, meant

that she kept me met the most ever.

So, I mean, I wouldn't be here without that.

What's your mother's name?

Her name is Maria.

Yeah, man.

So,

thank you for sharing that.

Absolutely.

Where your manager's like, dude, what's going on back there?

The hell's going on?

Yeah.

You just sold out that show.

Why are you bawling like a baby?

They were, man.

They look, I remember they looked back.

They gave me peace, though.

They looked back and they just like kept forward.

I don't think they knew.

They just let me, but they let me have that space to just pour out things that I needed to.

And they didn't even really ask.

It was awesome.

They just kind of let me do it and we went on.

It was, there was no weirdness about it.

And that's, that's a beautiful thing, man.

Crying is super important in life.

Well, that's one of the most important things to point out that you gave yourself the space.

Yes.

Yeah.

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Welcome back.

It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

And today you and I are hearing the unforgettable story and wisdom of Monrovia, who is a singer-songwriter who is exploding in the music scene.

I'm a huge fan of his.

And today he is sharing lessons from his life.

And I'm so excited that you're here.

I would love to have you since you seem to have made peace with the truth about how you were conceived and the circumstances that you were born into.

And you have

really been able to tell a different story about the love that Maria had

in choosing to keep you and love you and cherish you.

And a lot of people don't do that.

For somebody that is listening to you and they're thinking, well,

I just am so different from my family or I know exactly what you're talking about, but I don't know how to reconcile the truth.

What would you recommend?

as something that they could do to start walking down that road of healing and that sense of coming to peace with the truth about just your life story.

I think finding a place

where you feel safe is the number one step into

one possibly accepting the

truth or coming to terms with it.

And for me, music was the safe space.

So

I would tell that person: if you have

somewhere where

the world is quiet, where you can look at it clearly

and take the time,

give yourself that time.

Because it wasn't something that I

did when I was seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12.

I mean, no.

This was years.

And I think accepting that when it comes, it will come.

But you also have to create the spaces and that are not in the loudness of the world for you to be able to sit still

and really look at the truth.

So, whatever that space is for them,

I think there is where acceptance will be found.

Do you remember the first time you felt safe?

First time I felt safe.

I mean,

it's an interesting question because, I mean, I was safe, but I remember still

dreams followed me all, I mean, most of my life, even until now.

I have dreams of being chased by child soldiers or guns to my head and things like this.

So, safety in my mind is something that I still search for.

But bodily safety, yeah, I was, I mean, when I left Liberia, I think that was when I was like, okay, yeah, I don't think anything's really going to happen to me here.

Well, you got the question right because the question wasn't about whether or not you were safe.

Yeah.

Because I think there's a sense for all of us that we can busy ourselves.

Yeah.

And we can know that we are okay.

But as we are outrunning or denying or not allowing ourselves to process what we need to process or to be honest about the things that we're struggling with, we don't feel safe.

And I read that since you weren't thinking, okay, I'm just going to write music about my pain and that's what I'm going to do with my life.

And that's what, like you were literally seeking space to be able to process the experiences of your life.

And I read that you started journaling and that that became the early

entry point for you to start writing music.

Yeah.

Can you talk about like the power of journaling and how it helped you?

Yeah, I could never say,

I wouldn't say I was the best speaker in my family.

I, I,

I had a hard time always trying to convey what I wanted to say to my parents or, you know, mainly my parents.

And

I remember when I fell in love with just words when I started to write.

And

it was just a place where it could be me.

It was just me and me.

That was the first safe space in in the journaling yeah

and um

i didn't intend to really have that go into song to be honest um but kind of as time went on i was able to turn a lot of my writings and things into you know melodic kind of flows and things like this and it became that way and now going as i am you know older and things like that that's kind of how i write my lyrics is most of the time it starts with me thinking about things that i have a hard time saying

or things I think about the world and I'm writing them down and they come back to me weeks, months, years later into a song.

Kind of like just, yeah, and that's the downloading from the source.

It doesn't, I don't think about it, but when it presents itself again and reappears, these lyrics and then it just turns into some something that can help another person.

So,

you know, one thing I want to validate, because I noticed you said I wasn't the best speaker.

And I think for me and the person person that's with us right now, we're like, no, you're a pretty good speaker, actually.

I think the accurate thing, and I'm just going to say this, and you tell me if this feels right to you.

Yeah.

Is

you didn't feel

safe

saying what you needed to say.

That is accurate.

And it goes back to that sense of being a watcher in life.

Yes.

That I think we've all had an experience where we're stepping back and we're in a mode of protecting and not wanting to hurt anybody, not wanting to say the wrong thing.

And

I say that because, you know, I look at the various things that people write in about that listen from around the world.

And maybe as you're listening, you've said yourself, I'm not really good at communicating.

I'm not really the best speaker.

True.

I would have you ask yourself, is that it?

Or are you more concerned about making sure everyone around you is not upset or confronted by what you actually are feeling and want to say.

And so I love this takeaway that journaling became a space that you created for yourself.

One of the things that I read that you said that I would love to dig into is: I used to be in love with my suffering.

What does that mean?

It became something I thought I deserved.

And so in that, I accepted that exact thing that I'm meant to suffer.

And a lot of people do that.

I, for one, easily did that when it came to anything that

I went through.

I said, you know, I deserve this because I would look at my life

and the choices I made.

And it all goes back to Liberia for me

because I wanted to forget them.

I wanted to

to pay them no mind, to not even respect, you know, the lives of the people lost there.

I just wanted to be American.

I just wanted to go to college, go to place my sports, have all these things in life.

And

when I was in college, it came to a head.

My mind literally shattered.

I was so depressed and

had no

course.

And so I said, you know what?

I'm just, I'll just suffer.

Like, this is my penance because of all the things that, all the time I wasted in America, not utilizing the gift of having an opportunity to do something.

I put everything of that on myself.

My mother dying, I put that maybe

if Timothy or my sister Jacqueline were here, maybe one of them would have been a doctor to do something even more useful.

Maybe one of them would have

done something that where they could give so much back to Liberia or whatever.

I didn't think of anything.

Became American happy and and did my thing.

And when it came, and when I realized this when I was older, looking back, I said, wow, I wasted a lot of time doing absolutely nothing for

what my story deserves.

I know the person listening either knows somebody like this or they are that person.

I used to, I deserve bad things.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Wow.

How did you turn this around?

Talk to the person that's with us and just share a little bit with like, what was the epiphany?

Well, like, how did you turn this around and go, wait a minute, I don't have to do life this way.

Yeah.

I mean, I was on Lookout Mountain, Georgia.

I was up there with some roommates and I had a, I was doing drugs, drinking like crazy.

Couldn't pay my rent.

doing odd jobs and just yeah, just not caring about anything.

Everything that I had went to alcohol.

And I woke up one morning knowing that I wasn't going to be able to make my rent, anything like this.

I was borrowing money from all my dad's friends, like people that he'd know.

Like, I was texting them, could I have somebody

just to pay my rent?

But it was always going back to other things.

And of course, I got back to him one day and he calls me up, my father, and he's, son,

I want you to, you know, come to, and he's, and he'd asked me times before, and this brings me back to just speaking to that person.

There are people in your life that

have stayed, whether you see it or not, or want to see it.

There are those that have stayed and they're the ones that

have been there for you in the dark night, have whispered to you, don't say that about yourself.

No, no, you don't deserve that.

And when you fall in love with your sufferings, when you decide not to hear those people anymore.

And so

for some reason, I was at such a low point in my life.

I remember I said, you know, I have nothing else.

And so I took this hand that was extended for my father.

And I left Tennessee.

I said, dad, I have nothing else.

I'll come.

I don't know what this is going to do.

I don't know.

So I went to California.

And

all I did was build this house with my father, me and him, because he was building the house in Dana Point, California.

And Some days he would leave and go to the church and I would just be home by myself for hours, tearing down the house, breaking, you know, taking out the nails,

breaking down walls.

And

that alone time, it's what healed me.

I saw the correlation of the destruction of this home to rebuild something new.

And I thought,

can I do the same thing to myself?

And it was just a powerful thing to me to be working with my hands, to be working with my hands on this house and making it beautiful at the same time, working on inward things.

And,

but I would say to the listener, notice the hands that are extended towards you at all times.

And because they're the ones that are going to help you come out of that place.

I don't think it's something you can really do alone, to be honest.

The need for each other

is the only way I think the world continues is to know that we rely on each other

for moments such as that.

Talk to me about the name.

Because your name was John Jay.

Is that right?

Yeah, it's my birth name.

Okay.

And so you changed your name, though, to Monrovia, which is the capital of Liberia.

Yeah.

When did that happen and why did you choose to do that?

Happened after I went to California.

Yeah.

In the building process, music finds me again.

Because at this point, before that, I wasn't really doing much music.

I was just trying to live and overcome.

But when I got back to California, started to really dive into these things.

I started to fall in love with music again and writing the truth.

And I remembered, I said, if anything came from this,

it can't be about me anymore at all.

And I said, I need to remember my people and where I'm from to keep me on course, to keep me grounded.

And so Monrovia was the choice name.

It's a reminder to me of

everything.

How long ago did you do that?

That would be 2019.

Wow.

Yeah.

I mean, this is kind of amazing because we're talking just six years ago, five years ago.

Yeah.

You weren't even writing music then?

No, not before that.

I was not doing anything with music.

That's kind of incredible.

This feels like a good moment to take a quick pause, hear a word from our sponsors, and don't you dare go anywhere because I've got a bunch more questions I wanted to ask Mon.

And he's also going to be singing after this short break.

So stay with us.

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Welcome back.

It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

Today, you and I are having an extraordinary conversation with Monrovia, and I cannot wait for you to sing a little bit later.

But first, I wanted to ask you this question.

How have you processed the survivor guilt?

Because you've talked about the fact that you were the one that was chosen.

It could have been your older sister or your brother, and they might have made more of the opportunity.

And you've beaten yourself up about this.

How do you process the survivor guilt?

Move from a place of

blame

to a place of, I think, claiming this opportunity.

Not that I have to owe anything to

what I am doing.

And that, and that wasn't easy.

But

to understand that

I get to

instill good things to people, I get to, because of this rescue,

bring more good into the world this way.

It's something I get to do.

It's not, and I don't keep it as, I think in the beginning of Monrovia, I looked at it as something of a penance to my people.

But as time has gone on, I'm understanding more

everything that happened to me.

It's almost like anti-fragility, I suppose, where these things in life that happen to you, you can choose to become stronger from them, you know.

And so, I think choosing that,

choosing to

accept the gift-that's what it was.

It was a gift, and

it freed me once I could accept it to be like, This is

an experience that was chosen for me.

And

I don't know, I don't know if my sister had, you know, had, has music or my, or my brother, right?

And I will do everything I can with the gifts given now to shine light on

my people, the history of

them, of, you know, black Americans here, of people in different countries that are struggling with different things.

I get to do that because of the gift that was given to me.

from that time.

I

am blown away by that reframe.

And I want to make sure that we really highlight that because that was extraordinary.

People have survivor's guilt over lots of different things.

Yeah, lots of different things.

Yeah.

You know, you can have survivor's guilt because you survived a car crash that a good friend didn't.

You can have survivor's guilt because

your

sibling was the person that was abused and you were not.

Absolutely.

You can have survivor guilt for just endless reasons.

And you just just said you were able to move it from blame, like you make yourself wrong for being the one that it didn't happen to,

to claiming this

and really seeing the fact that this is a gift.

And the way that you know that it's a gift goes back to something that you said, you're meant

to be here.

Is there anything else that you would say to the person who is really just kind of struggling with the guilt?

You know, that kind of undeserving thing, which again, sounds like I love my suffering.

So I'm just going to, you know, there's periods of grief, of course, but then there comes that point where you're like, okay.

Yeah, I think if you can change guilt to growth,

you know, and notice that there's always an opportunity for that anywhere you look.

You don't have, you know, and it's not a massive, it's not changing overnight.

It's not, it's the little tiny changes you can make of something, whether it's,

you know, I, I drink this many, whatever beers a day, or I'm take, you know, maybe you, you take one less one day, growth happens.

And I think that overcomes a lot of guilt is, is, I think, letting growth take its place and not sitting in guilt.

I think you can always grow from it.

And so that's what I've done.

So you've shared that music kind of was this space for you to heal and journaling was the space for you.

When when were you like you know what i think i'm gonna sing i think i'm gonna pick up a ukulele and i think i'm gonna start to write some songs like when was that moment that you're like uh with the ukulele man that was a long way away way it's a long way i before that i was i mean i guess i take it back to high school i did play a little bit of guitar like a very small bit okay but i wrote more for my friends back to in junior senior year of high school so i already i already knew that that gift of writing was there, but I never really wanted to be seen.

I'm not someone that likes to be in the front of people.

You're a watcher.

I'm a watcher.

Yeah.

Or so you say.

That's what I say.

Yeah, I guess that's.

But I went to college and I did one, I did a musical event there called Mountain Affair at the school, Covenant College on Lookout Mountain, Tennessee.

And I ended up winning People's Choice Award at this school.

And still, I was like, nah,

this is not for me.

Right.

And so after I go to California after my things, I go to California.

I'm starting to become mon.

I pick up a ukulele because my parents got me this gift.

It wasn't, I didn't want to play the ukulele.

I wanted a guitar.

Okay.

They're cheaper, though.

A ukulele is cheaper.

And plus, having musicians in my family, if I buy you a guitar and you don't play it, it's pissed.

Yeah, exactly.

If I spend 60 bucks on a ukulele, we're good.

Yeah.

And there was an old guitar.

This is whatever.

But they gave me, they gave me ukulele.

I just started to write fine simple chords.

And this is back in California.

And I started just to write some songs.

And this stuff wasn't going, I wasn't making this broad to people.

Uh-huh.

I just played it a little bit.

I moved back to Tennessee.

Mm-hmm.

And

because of me being,

I'll be honest, I think it was because of me being black.

I never really went into a singer-songwriter, you know, that genre.

I decided to go, okay, for Monrovia, I'll take it into a more experimental way.

I'll just do like, right, I'll write over beats because,

you know, this is what African American, like, then I'm going to

accept me into like the fault, that space.

Well, is that the kind of music you listen to?

No, that's what I'm saying.

I listened growing up.

When my foster brothers came to the home, they showed me more of the singer-songwriter music.

But I never thought I could do that just based on my skin.

And I didn't see anybody in that world that was doing that in my space.

And so, being mon,

I decided just to write over rap beats and do more of like a lyrical rap thing.

It's in dark continent, which is a lot of different genres.

And it wasn't sticking still.

So, this is 2021, COVID area.

Okay.

And

2021 comes to a close and 22 comes around.

And I'm like, I got, I found my ukulele again.

And I start to play and write songs on this ukulele.

One of my managers, Eric, who's was with me from the beginning in the gutter, he tells me, dude, you should go on TikTok.

You should go and just, I love what you're doing with the ukulele.

Everything else,

that's not it.

Let's,

you have these amazing songs.

You have these lyrics that really touch, that touch me.

I think they'll touch other people as well.

And so end of 22, December, every day, I just went, I was like, oh, whatever.

I went on TikTok.

I just played my song, only my original songs, used the ukulele, and people just started to

gather, to stay.

You know, they'd be at work.

They'd have it on at work.

They'd be making coffee in the mornings.

And they would just have me on playing these songs and listening to these original songs.

And the community grew from there.

Who's the watcher now?

We all are.

We're watching you, Ron.

Yeah, y'all watching.

We We all.

And so from there, that's when, you know, I think it dawned on me that, oh, there are so many other people that feel, though, different experiences and different bringings ups and everything, the emotions are what really connect all of us.

We all know sadness.

We all know pain, you know, love, loss.

And so the music was hitting on those things and it brought so many different people into the space.

It was really beautiful.

When did you have this epiphany?

This is what I want to to do for a living.

Because you're kind of like dabbling in music because it's fun.

Yeah.

It's something to do.

But then Eric's your manager now.

But when he's like, dude, like you got to do this, this was like a friend encouraging you.

Oh, yeah.

And it sounds more like you were resisting the call and resisting the thing that everybody else saw.

It goes back to that, to the doubt of everything.

I don't deserve to be doing this.

You know, could it possibly happen if I gave it my full efforts?

And I look back at my music and

having a friend tell me,

believe in me more than I do,

I would say is what put me on this journey.

And you need people in your life like that.

And it goes back to what you said earlier.

When somebody extends a hand or somebody says, you got to do this thing, like you really have something here.

Like notice how quickly we swat the hand away or like, nah, yeah, nah.

Like imagine how much would change in your life if you trusted the people that were encouraging you.

Yeah.

Just imagine.

And I don't think you have to believe in how it's happening.

You got to stay focused on the thing that you're doing, that you're really enjoying doing.

Yeah.

And it's clear that you're enjoying this.

Oh, yeah.

What would you say

to the person who is listening and they're holding on to something?

A song,

a book, a move they want to make, a name change,

creating the space to feel what they need to feel.

What do you want to tell them about

just

making the move?

Like to stop fighting against the pull of what I think we know deeply to be true, but we are either scared of or actively resisting.

Yeah, I mean, the time here is yours.

And

regardless of anything,

you have your choices to make.

And you can either, I think, deny all the good that you

can possibly have in this life, deny it yourself, or make the choices that lead you to you becoming everything

that you doubted.

You just deserve to be happy.

Like you really do,

no matter what has happened, you deserve to be happy.

You deserve to have, to make the choices that leads you to where you want to go.

You know, what's interesting is I think I just realized that there is so much suffering

in denying

yourself of what you want to do.

Yes.

That is a form of loving your suffering.

Yes.

Making excuses.

and holding yourself back from just trying the thing or putting yourself out there or making the change.

And you also could just do it because you yourself enjoy it.

A lot of times you put it on like, if I put this out there, what are people going to think about it?

Or what?

And at the end of the day, gifts are meant to be given.

You're giving a gift.

You know what it is.

Whether you're an artist, you're author, a singer, you are given a gift and it's meant to be given again.

And it's a blessing that you get to give it to someone else that in turn, maybe then it brings out their gift.

because they see your gift shine, your gift heal, your gift bring something into their their thought that they never thought about.

You know, you mentioned that when you first started screwing around with music, you were laying down the beats and doing lyrics on top of it.

And it is like the opposite of the kind of, so when you look back, though, and you know, we all have those periods where we look back on what it looked like when we started.

And you've got that, like, your nose flared.

I'm like, there's the cringe look on Mon right.

He doesn't look so peaceful right now.

He just did that, like, not too long ago, dude.

So, what do you want to say to the person who literally is like, okay, I can't, it's got to be right.

Like they're afraid of that feeling.

I think fear is totally okay.

But don't let the fear stop you from

finding what's more.

I think you have to keep pouring, keep trying the gift, learning from it until it refines as you go.

And that's how it is.

You're not going to become Mozart or Taylor Swift overnight.

You know, I'm sure there was different versions all along the way because she kept putting it out or they kept putting it out.

And that's what's happened on my journey is

I kept putting out and trying this gift, working at it.

And eventually it reveals where it should be.

And now it is where it should be.

And I, and here we are.

The art of continuing.

The art of continuing.

Yeah.

And it's continuing to evolve.

And it's continuing.

Yeah.

And it probably will continue to evolve.

Yeah.

You know, one of the things that I have read is that you said that the question that haunted you the most for a while is, who am I?

How do you answer that question now?

I would say I am John Jay

Monrovia,

son of Maria from Liberia, West Africa.

Yeah, that's how I'd answer that.

How does it feel to say that?

It's beautiful.

Yeah, absolutely beautiful.

And could you speak directly to the person listening who feels like, I don't know who I am.

I don't know if I belong.

And they're starting to, or wanting to, or feel inspired to build their sense of identity, to claim the gift of it.

Yeah.

If you stop now, you'll never know the groups of people.

that are waiting to bring you into that fold that or,

you know, the lives that you're going to impact in this life on this journey if you had no one tell you this

I'm going to repeat it again but you're meant to be here and it starts with you believing that every day

and then

the world opens up and different things start to take form and you're led to a place of belonging because you didn't stop believing that you were meant to be.

And I think the belief portion is

the most important aspect.

And so I believe that you're meant to be here.

And I hope you continue.

And that's,

I wish people said that every day to each other, best friends, lovers, everybody.

You need to, it's a, it's a, it needs to be a reminder.

It's so easy to forget because of all the different hardships that life brings at you.

So if the person listening takes just one thing from all of the wisdom, all of the lessons that you have distilled down, as we've talked about your life, we've talked about the things that you're doing with your music.

What would you hope that one takeaway would be?

That

your life is a gift.

And

for you to live in that freedom with your choices

and in that,

just

not be afraid to pour all the love you can into the experience that you have, regardless of the hurt and pain that may come because of the giving of the because of the giving of it.

Yeah, pour all the love you can into your into this life that you have because it's yours.

Do you have a song with that title?

Oh, no, I don't.

I should, huh?

I think you should.

I think you should.

And also, you have your own, and I think about something because you just brought up a song, a song.

But

those who are, you know, for my friends who are in that place of suffering

or like we talked about earlier, falling in love with that suffering,

the song Crooked the Road,

it used to be called Crooked the Road and the One Driving.

That's what I called it.

Because for a long time,

I blamed the road.

And we all do that at some point.

We find excuses to go, it's because of how I was born.

And again, these things still hold weight.

But the one driving, you are the one that has autonomy.

You can always choose a different path, a different way.

And sometimes you have to look at yourself on the road, on the journey, and realize I can take that other turn.

My bandmate, Sam, he

had this first hook to the song, just, if you're leaving, no, I'll stay behind the telephone line.

And that's what, and he brought that to the studio with us.

And we were in Chicago.

And we started talking about, you know, where this song could go.

We loved the hook, the chorus, which is so beautiful, that line of staying beside someone through everything.

The song really is about leaving your suffering.

Because I write the song about the place I'm at on Lookout Mountain where I'm not noticing anybody or the hands.

And that song says that if I grab it, know that I care because darkness doesn't look good on you.

Another thing we do is we don't want people to help because we fear our darkness going to them, them being engulfed by how much weak we are.

And so we push them away.

And so Crook of the Road is, is, is about that, is about accepting help.

And the persons staying by the telephone line are the people that we exactly talked about earlier that want to see you better, that are the helpers.

Look to the helpers.

We know this.

Mr.

Rogers.

Yeah.

You know, I know you're in Boston, not only for the Mel Robbins podcast, but because you are one of the headliners at Boston Calling.

Massive concert this weekend.

Can't wait.

Which I know means you also have your ukulele.

I do, yes.

Could you play that song for us?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, gladly.

Let's get the ukulele.

Let's do it.

Sounds good.

You know, as soon as you got up to go get your ukulele,

the door to the studio opened.

Everybody that's in the studio today came running in here.

We now have an audience.

I am so excited.

I have loved being with you.

I'm so excited to hear you play live.

And I'm so proud of you.

Thank you.

I don't know why I'm going to cry, but I'm so proud of you.

It means a lot.

Thank you.

I feel like I'm getting my own private tour experience right here, but I just want to say you are on tour, selling out all over the place.

And I know big things are happening.

And something I have a feeling big is going to be happening this fall.

We're going to be on the lookout because anywhere you are, Monrovia, is a place for gathering for us all.

Thank you.

Wow.

Thank you so much.

That means That means, yeah, more than you know.

This song is called Crooked the Road, and it's about leaving your suffering behind and noticing those that want to help.

Crooked the Road

and the one

driving

25 years

I know

you've been unraveling.

Tell me why did you run

past the dogs and the horses

Now you find yourself here

past the dues

and don't serve your choices

But if you're leaving

No, I'll stay beside that telephone line

And tomorrow,

we might steal the sun from underneath our eyes.

Tennis courts, when I was yours, late night releasing releasing sacred floors.

Got me believing a little more

that this pain will run its course

in the morning.

I saw you there

holding out your hand.

If I grab it, know that I care.

Cause darkness don't look good.

But if you're leaving,

no, I'll stay beside that telephone line.

And tomorrow

we might steal the sun from underneath our eyes

Daybreaks sorrow

But I still feel the edge of this cold light

But next to you,

I lay softly on this hard ground.

But next to you,

I lay softly

on this hard ground.

Thank you so much.

That's it.

Wow.

Thank you.

How did it feel to play that?

Like, what's that like for you?

Especially after sharing

so much about your life and the meaning behind that song.

It's nice after those conversations because it just makes the, it keeps the stories, you know, I think meaningful to me.

Because over time, I was always worrying about,

I just don't want any of the songs and lyrics to never mean what they were to me when I wrote the song.

Because you can play them so much, it shows you can, you get into a rhythm of just saying the same things or whatever.

And so that song means a lot to me.

Takes me right back.

And thank you so much for letting me play it.

Thank you.

Thank you for everything.

Thank you for being here.

I'm so proud of you.

Congratulations on all of your success.

I think you are at the very, very, very beginning of a massive, as you call it, art of continuing in a beautiful career and a huge difference that you're going to make.

And I am just grateful that you accepted the gift of your life and that you are now sharing it with us.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And I also want to thank you.

Thank you for taking the time to listen to this, to watch this, to share this with people that you care about.

And I wanted to be sure to tell you, in case no one else does, that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life.

And there is no doubt in my mind that if you listen closely and truly take to heart everything that Monrovia shared with you today, that you are meant to be here, that there is a huge possibility for your life.

Just keep on continuing on, and you will figure out what that possibility is that is meant for you.

I truly believe that.

Alrighty, I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode.

I'll welcome you in the moment you hit play.

I'll see you there.

We're going to have a lot of fun.

Yeah, this is awesome.

54321.

54321.

Let him say whatever he wants to say.

Okay, thank you.

Do you prefer Mon, Monrovia?

What do you prefer?

Yeah, you can call me Mon.

You and I are going to be swept away, not only by his story, but by his humility, his compassion, and

the message.

Oh, I went back the way.

Sorry.

You can do whatever you want.

Did I get the tour of the right way?

Did I call it the right way?

You did.

That was poetry.

That was beautiful.

Thank you, guys.

Wow.

Thank you so much.

This is awesome.

I hope I come back sometime

to visit y'all.

Yeah.

Okay, that's a wrap.

Great job and great job this week.

Oh, and one more thing.

And no, this is not a blooper.

This is the legal language.

You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.

This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.

I'm just your friend.

I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.

Got it?

Good.

I'll see you in the next episode.

Stitcher.

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