What Every Dad Should Know: Lessons From Literary Legend James Patterson

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.

You know, I've been thinking a lot about my dad lately.

I've been thinking about how the years have just flown by.

I mean, I can't believe he's already 80.

And the fact is, I want to see him more often.

I want to connect with him on a deeper level, learn more about him, because if I'm lucky, I've got like 10 or 15 more years with him.

And I really want to enjoy the time that we have together.

Maybe you feel that way about someone you care about too.

You know, one thing I've come to realize is that there's never enough time with the people you love.

And knowing that, doesn't it just create this sense of urgency to say the things that matter?

Ask the questions you've never asked?

Try to do just a little bit better.

And that's what makes today's guest so special.

To say that he has a way with words is a massive understatement.

In our Boston studios today, we have one of the single best-selling authors of our lifetime.

I'm talking about the one and only, James Patterson.

He's the record-breaking literary legend who has sold more than 400 million books.

And can you guess what his favorite title is?

Dad.

And that's the topic of his newest book.

I'm so excited for this conversation and thrilled that James is here because he's one of the busiest authors on the planet.

In fact, he's currently working on 31 different projects.

But today, he has stepped away from the writing desk and is pulling up a chair with you and me for a life-changing conversation about fatherhood.

And maybe you're listening today and you're lucky enough like I am and your dad is still with us.

Or for you, maybe dad is the one you miss.

Maybe he's the one you wish you had.

or you wish you understood.

Or maybe you want to know how to be the best dad, the best person that you can be.

Or heck, you just want to know how to do a little bit better.

James Patterson is letting you in on the things you don't really hear dads talk about.

The expectations, the uncertainty, the pressure, the regrets, all that stuff that you normally have to read between the lines in order to figure out what the meant in your life.

I mean, it's not so easy to be a good dad.

And even though dads tend to feel like they're supposed to have it all figured out, a lot of them don't.

And James Patterson, normally a master of mystery and suspense, is here to lay it all on the table with heart, humor, and refreshing honesty.

And I'm personally so excited because I know so many dads out there love James Patterson.

And this is one episode that I personally cannot wait to share with my dad.

And I hope you will do the same with yours.

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Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

I am thrilled that you're here.

And it is always such an honor to spend time together, to be with you.

And today, holy cow, are you and I in for a spectacular treat?

We get to sit down with none other than James Patterson.

And if you're a new listener, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

Thank you for being here.

And because you made the time to listen to this this particular episode, here's what I know about you.

I know that you're either a mega James Patterson fan, or you are the kind of person who values the people in your life and you would love to know simple ways to improve your relationships with the people who matter most.

And I'm going to tell you something.

If you're not a James Patterson fan, you will be after the conversation today.

James Patterson has sold a mind-blowing 400 million copies of his books and counting.

I mean, you can't step into anyone's house, a bookstore, a library, even the tiniest airport newsstand around the world without spotting a James Patterson title or heck, 10 of them staring right back at you.

Alex Cross, Michael Bennett, the Women's Murder Club.

James Patterson has written everything from edge of your seat thrillers, laugh out loud kids' books, jaw-dropping true crime, heartwarming tales of love and loss.

You name it.

If it's part of the human experience, James Patterson has written it and readers adore him.

Having authored or co-authored over 200 books, he's a literary legend and a machine.

And he just keeps on going and going and going and breaking records along the way.

James Patterson holds the Guinness World Record for the most number one New York Times bestsellers.

He's the first author to sell a million e-books and the awards, They just stack up like his stories.

But his impact goes far beyond what he creates.

James Patterson is a philanthropist dedicated to improving literacy.

He's donated over a million books to students and to soldiers serving overseas.

He awards scholarships to future teachers and writers through the Patterson Family Foundation.

And he has poured more than $9 million into school libraries and independent bookstores across the United States.

And out of everything he's written and accomplished, Dad.

is still his favorite title.

His newest release is the number one dad book, Be the Best Dad You Can Be in One Hour.

I've read it.

It's a fast, funny, and heartfelt read packed with the real life lessons James Patterson wishes he'd known sooner.

Now, he's come to our Boston studios today for one reason, to be here with you and to share those lessons with you.

Lessons you'll want to share with all the soon-to-be dads, fathers, grandfathers, and father figures in your life.

And this is a pretty special moment for me because my dad, hi dad, happens to be one of the biggest James Patterson fans I know.

So please help me welcome the one and only James Patterson to the Mel Robbins podcast.

I am so thrilled you're here.

I'm excited.

I really am.

And a lot of times at these things, you don't get that excited, but this time, this is, this is, it's really fun, I think.

Well, I am so excited to discuss your

newest book.

I mean, you've got so many books, but this one is really special.

The number one dad book, Be the Best Dad Dad You Can Be in One Hour.

I would love to start by just having you speak directly to the person who has found the time and made the time to be here with you and me today.

What might they experience about their life that could be different?

Yeah, I think person,

you know,

hopefully this book, and I think it is in the spirit of what Mel does with all of these podcasts, which is to help a little.

And that's huge.

Help a little to make tomorrow a little better.

And in particular, because this book affects everybody in your family.

It's for dads, but in talking to dads and helping dads to be better, it will help the partners and it will definitely help the kids and the grandparents even.

This book, I think, is in the spirit with pretty much everything that Mel does.

And I think it's particularly useful because this isn't a book about, well, let's think about stuff and then we go home and nothing changes.

This This is about doing.

This is about changing in good ways.

And it's not a book about perfect because I don't believe in that.

And I don't, I don't know how anybody's, I don't think we can be perfect.

Maybe God can be perfect, but not us.

This is about

being better tomorrow than we were today.

And as I said, the idea of doing this for the whole family is,

I think it's a very useful thing.

And I'm really excited about spending some time with you.

And we're super excited to spend time with you.

And we're going to dig into this book.

I love love love this book and i know you're going to love it too and before we jump into the number one dad book and all the incredible lessons in it i just want to take a step back and talk a little bit about your career yeah you were not born a best-selling author yeah but the world knows you as probably the most successful living author today.

400 million copies of your book sold.

Yeah, too many, way too many.

He writes too many books, but, you know, whatever.

67 number one New York Times bestsellers.

You've got 13 more books coming out this year alone.

And you have a really interesting story, though, because you didn't begin as a writer.

You were studying to get a PhD and then went into advertising.

Tell me a little bit about your background.

Well, I was in advertising, but I've been cleaned for 30 years now.

So thank you for bringing that up.

Grew up in a small town, upstate New York, Newburgh, New York.

My father actually grew up in a poorhouse there.

His mother was a charwoman.

She cleaned the bathrooms and the kitchens and he got, they had, shared a room in the basement.

And, you know, so kind of lower middle class in terms of the way we grew up.

And

I was a good student, but I wasn't a big reader in high school, Catholic high school.

I moved up actually in this area.

My parents moved to Lexington.

I worked at McLean Hospital in Belmont nearby, mental hospital, and I worked a lot of night shifts.

And I would go into Cambridge like three times a week and just get these books.

You could buy them for 25 cents.

And I started reading, reading, reading, and then I started scribbling.

And this turned around my life and I think saved me as a human being and has eliminated a lot of stress and sores and difficulty from my life because somebody said you're lucky if you find something you like to do.

And then it's a miracle if somebody will pay you to do it.

Well, in starting to read and reading stuff that I wanted to read and reading a lot of fiction and plays and whatever, I found what I wanted to do.

I wasn't getting paid for it yet, but that was, that was just so key to find this thing.

I knew that I wanted to be a writer.

So do you remember the moment where you were like, I think I want to do this for a living?

I don't think I, it wasn't that I wanted to do it for a living, but I wanted to do it.

I wanted to write novels.

I went down to Vanderbilt for grad school, and I was very lucky to have a professor there who just said, you you got it.

You have this thing.

You can do it.

I was writing a lot of short stories.

And I wrote the first book.

I published it when I was 26, the Thomas Behrman number.

It got turned down by 31 publishers.

Then it went in Edgar's best first novel.

So go figure that one out.

And that's the thing in terms of people, sometimes you get rejected or you get rejected.

But just.

If you believe in yourself, just

keep going.

And that was something that I did.

I kind of, and this professor helped a lot because he said, no, you can do this.

You have, you, you have what it takes to, to, to be a really good writer or to be successful, at least to make a living doing it.

Wasn't it almost 20 years later, though, that Along Came the Spider was published?

And that's kind of the, the Alex Cross novel.

That's the one that my dad's like, oh, James Patterson's my,

because I grew up with a dad who was always reading your books.

Uh-huh.

Always.

And so I think it's also important to note because more than anything, you've not only been patient, you've been persistent.

And I think that's a really important lesson when I look at your life from the outside.

It's a simple thing with me.

I just love to do it.

You know,

I don't work for a living.

I play for a living, honestly.

And that's, you're so lucky.

I mean, anybody that has that happen to them, and it does with some people.

uh some nurses some teachers some they just they just love it my mother was a teacher for 50 years or so and and that's i just wrote a nonfiction book about teachers it's so hard for them now because they're getting pressure from the left, they're getting pressure from the right, they're getting the kids are more unruly than they've ever been.

The parents, some of them are so interested.

So it's very, very hard.

People are telling them how to teach, how not to teach, what does you do.

So it's really, really, really, really, really, really hard.

It's just so important that the kids should get educated.

And I do a lot in that area.

mostly literacy.

But something that I think that's even more important that I wish we could teach in school, I'll just give you this, which is thinkoracy.

Thinkoracy.

Thinkoracy, which is teaching kids how to think.

Like when they come in, you know, a typical kid, what are you going to do after school?

I don't know.

Just getting them to say, well, you could read a book, you could play soccer, you could rob a liquor store.

There's so many things, just opening their brains up, you know, and if they could do that in school all the time, you know, because with the kids, one of the things that they'll do is the blank screen, they panic.

Yes.

Let's say the subject was,

you got to write a story about something, blank screen.

Okay, you got a blank screen.

We got it.

Just put a picture up in a blank screen.

Anything you can think of.

A rabbit.

Okay, great.

You could write about a rabbit.

Put another picture up there.

My mom making bread.

Good.

You could write about that.

So how do we, you know, so thinker, see, getting kids in the habit, habit, monstrous thing for your books, for my books, getting people in the habit.

How do you get them?

I did it once, do it again, do it again, do it again.

But if they did that in schools, it would be great for us.

There are studies now that kids, they're doing less thinking, less

reasoning than ever.

And that's not good.

Because they're spending more time on their phones.

I don't know what they're doing, but they're not thinking.

Well, what I also think is really interesting.

So you published your first book at the age of 26 after 31 rejections, but you continued to work in advertising for a long time while you were writing books.

It's a really important part of your story because I think a lot of people think that you find the thing and then you just do that thing, but you get the day job.

It didn't seem logical for me.

I didn't want to put pressure on the writing.

I didn't want to be in a situation where it's like, if I don't get this published, if I, it's going to really, it's going to be pressure.

I didn't want to

start dreading the thing that I loved.

I think that's a huge takeaway that you had the insight to say, I love this thing so much that if I were to jump in too soon and put pressure on it to make money, it actually squeezes the joy and the art out of the thing that I'm doing.

Yeah.

Well, that's just the way I looked at it.

Yes.

Well,

it's brilliant.

And actually, there's a lot of research around entrepreneurs, and they say that if an entrepreneur keeps their day job, they are a third less likely to fail for precisely that reason

because you basically are spreading your bets and you're earning your money over here, which takes the pressure off the thing that you're doing over there.

So it was an actual brilliant move.

I don't know if it's just my DNA or something with my parents, whatever, in terms of, well, okay, what's the consequence of that?

Where's that going to go?

Is that going to be a good thing for you?

So a little cautious, but not in a bad way, I think.

That must also be a way in which you write, is thinking through the consequences of what's happening next.

Well, I think part of it, I mean, that's why I do my outlines.

And not everybody does this.

I interview, I do interviews a little bit, like Michael Connolly doesn't do outlines, and Beldace doesn't do outlines, but I do.

And I'm not a slave to them.

I mean, I'll do my outline, and it can be 50, 60, 70 pages.

And I always do change them because you're writing and you find that a character is more interesting than you thought they were going to be.

Or theoretically, you were going to get rid of the bad guy.

Oh, no, but I want the bad guy to come back.

So to be open to change is also important.

And I guess that's important in life, too.

It's sort of like you have to outline your life, right?

And,

you know, to have a plan, but not to worry about it.

I think I'd like to, and the other thing I think is to be open.

And a lot of people aren't open.

They get to, oh, I never want to do this.

I never, well, you don't know.

And I think even with kids, how do you get them just to be open?

Just consider this.

Think about this.

Don't, you know,

people take kids out to see colleges and the kids go, oh, I love these buildings.

That's nice.

But, you know, in a month, you'll stop noticing the buildings.

But what really is it about this school that's really going to make, you know, for example,

our son went to Brown and the culture there is you're all smart, so don't beat each other up and support each other.

So that's the important thing about that school or one of the important things.

If that appeals to you, then that's a good school for you.

Much more important than our, I really like the buildings and it was so cute and, you know,

no, no, no.

That culture is, that's really important if, if that, if that appeals to you.

How do you come up with so many ideas?

It's a, it's, it's hell.

What do you mean it's hell?

No, I'm kidding.

It seems like a gift.

It is.

Yes, it is a gift.

I just, for whatever reason, I just have this monstrous

imagination.

I think a piece of it is growing up in Newburgh, it was seven or eight acres, my grandmother's.

It was just woods.

Once again, modest house that they built, my grandmother and grandfather, and then woods.

And I would wander out in those woods and just make up stories.

Story, story, story, story, story, story, story.

And I think I just got into the habit of it.

I remember when I was going to Vanderbilt, I used to drive down there from Massachusetts.

I was living there.

It was like 28 hours, whoever the hell it was.

And I would write musical plays going back and forth to Vanderbilt.

I would just make up these plays and

I'd make them up on the spot and I would sing the songs.

I'm a terrible singer

and create the characters as I was going.

And, you know, I don't know.

It just, it's.

somehow in my head.

I don't know why, but maybe it's dreams.

I don't know where it comes from.

Sometimes I'll wake up and I'll be in the middle of a story that I've been dreaming.

And then do you have like a notebook by your bed that you then?

I used to.

I used to.

But now what I found out is that if it's good, you're going to remember it.

And if you bother to write it down, it wasn't that good.

You go like, what?

What is this?

Why did I write this down?

You know, the good stuff I think I remember.

And do you typically work on one project

at a time?

No.

No.

You know, right now, I think there are 31 live projects, things that I'm working on.

And so do you walk in and it's sort of like one of those docens, like which one's pulling me towards you?

I kind of know.

I kind of know what the one or two or three that I'm messing around with are.

But the good thing about it is

you don't get writers blocked that way.

Well, you know, it's interesting you say that because one of the things that I read about.

a technique or a strategy that you use that I found super helpful.

I'm like, oh my gosh, I wish I would have read this years ago.

Is you said that a lot of writers trip themselves up because they try to get the chapter perfect.

And you have this ability, if the chapter's not working, to just be like, okay, next.

And yeah, for me, and I think for a lot of writers, go on, go to the next chapter, get it on the rewrite, get it on the next rewrite.

And ultimately, if you don't get it, turn that chapter into a paragraph starting the next chapter.

If you can't ultimately figure it out, you just, instead of killing yourself, perfection in some things is the enemy of progress.

Maybe not in certain tech areas, but in a lot of things, it's like, no, don't worry about perfection.

Just keep moving the ball forward, pushing it up the whatever, Sisyphus, et cetera.

For me anyway.

And I never, never, ever, ever give advice.

I just, here's some thoughts.

Here's some thoughts.

I mean, part of it with the dad's book.

We'll get into it, but part of it had to do with right through high school, people always came to me for, what do you think of this?

What do you think of that?

da and that's that's a little of what got me doing that book the idea of i have a lot of thoughts to share

and i also think uh you know we've only just met

but i also think you are a very sincere and kind person

you come across as very very caring so i think it's not only that you have a lot of thoughts to share as you share them there is a a

very kind and caring intent behind the way in which you share the thoughts It's a weird, yeah, I think that's an interesting, I don't know that it's totally accurate, but.

I'll ask Sue.

Yeah, I think she would say that.

But I get more pleasure out of giving than receiving.

I just literally, it just works better for me.

And the way I grew up, in particular with my grandparents, they were just very giving.

They just, that was their deal.

They, you know, they would do little soup kitchens and just, and that's just the way it was.

And they didn't want pats on the back or, you know, like, I'm going to go to heaven or just, that's just the way they were.

And, and I kind of do the same thing.

One of the things that you're doing in addition to 31 open projects that you're working on right now is you have started doing a lot of writing on the subscription platform Substack.

A little bit, yeah.

Yeah.

And yours is called Hungry Dogs, and it has a great backstory.

Where does that name come from?

My grandmother.

She had that line, hungry dogs run faster, which is, yeah, that makes sense.

And, you know, and she brought me up in particular and my sisters to some extent to be kind of hungry dogs in a good way.

And she also was big on go chop wood.

Just, you know, go, go do it.

Get it done.

Just don't make excuses.

Just go out there and chop wood.

And I think, and once again, it was never with her.

It was never, she wasn't going to stress you out.

She wasn't going to, you know, beat you up if you didn't do it.

I mean, I think the only thing they ever did was, you know, you get a 97 on a test.

I go, why don't you get 100?

And then they'd let it go.

But that was about the extent of pressure.

And I think that was healthy and good.

And

it was

stimulating as opposed to just cramming you up and

putting pressure on you that's not particularly useful.

So at, you know, when you reach your 70s, I wouldn't like think that you'd be thinking you're a hungry dog, but you're not slowing down at all.

And so what drives you at this stage in your life?

Drive, I don't know that it probably drive is a good word, but I never think of it that way.

One of the things that helped a lot during COVID, I wrote my autobiography.

I wasn't planning to, but I just started writing down a few stories and I went, I'm really enjoying this process, A.

And B,

I said, I really want to, I want to write this well.

I want to really concentrate on the sentences more than I have been in the fiction.

That helped me in my, I think the writing that I've been doing the last couple of years is the best I've ever done in terms of, and that, and that's why the autobiography just got me paying more attention to the sentences again, which I did way back and then got a little less, I don't know why, lazy, a little something.

Lazy, I don't know that, well, yeah, lazy.

Let's call it lazy.

Well, what's the difference?

There's got to be a big difference between writing fiction versus really writing an autobiography.

What was that like for you?

It was fun.

It was great.

And

one of the things with the autobiography, I said, I'm just going to tell stories.

I mentioned my father growing up in the Newburgh poorhouse and, you know, that kind of stuff.

And that's, that doesn't, I don't get any credit for that, but it's just interesting to me.

He was about to go off to the war and he got this phone call.

And this guy said, you know, our name is George Hazelton.

I live in Port Jervis, which is about 20 miles away.

He said, just bear with me for just a couple of minutes.

He said,

last night, my parents, after dinner, said, George, come on down to the living room.

We want to talk to you.

And they said, we love you so much, but you're going away to war and we have to tell you we're not your natural parents and we adopted you.

And then over the phone, this George Hazelton said to my father, I'm your brother.

And that's how my father found out he had a brother, which is a pretty stunning story.

They both survived the war.

They came back.

And after they came back three or four years later, my uncle called up again.

He said, I found our father.

And, you know, they had never met him in a way that they would remember.

He had run off.

He had a terrible Irish guy, just terrible reputation as kind of a drunk and whatever.

And he said, he's in Boughkeepsie.

And I want to, let's go up and see him tonight.

My father said, I don't want to meet the bastard.

So my uncle, shy guy, went up by himself, a little, crummy little bar under the bridge, Hudson River, going over to Newport.

And there's his father, to his knowledge, he's never seen the guy before.

And my uncle sits in there for like 20 minutes.

He doesn't drink.

He orders a Coca-Cola or something.

And he watches this guy, his father, who he's never met.

And he's so turned off by the guy, he leaves without ever introducing himself to.

And until recently, I didn't even know the name of my grandfather.

It happened to be Robert, but I didn't know that.

And, you know, just stories like that.

Well, that's a good idea.

And that's a three-page.

Well, the whole book, it's just full of stuff like that.

Just stories, story, stories, stories.

Wow.

How does that story impact you when you think about fatherhood?

My,

and this relates to the number one dad book.

The only time I remember hugging my father was on his deathbed.

And that says a lot.

And in therapy, I learned that one of the reasons that I would get angry sometimes was just, it was my father.

And I had to sort of at times go, that's not that yelling at this cab driver.

That's not me.

That's just stupid.

That's ridiculous.

It's irrational.

And that's just this whatever, pent up anger.

A, and B,

don't blame him.

He was doing the best he could.

And I think he was.

And one of my best friends from college, Sue and I were having dinner over there.

And their two sons both played football, high school football.

And after dinner, the boys were going out the front door.

And my friend said, you know,

where are you guys going?

And they stopped and they came over and they gave him a hug.

And I said, yeah, there's a life lesson right there.

There are these two big football players.

It didn't matter, you know, they were football players, but he insisted on having a hug.

So with our son, Jack, every single night, and to this day, if he comes home, he gets a hug.

When I came here, I got a hug.

I like that.

Yeah.

That's great.

And not everybody's a hugger.

But the book, number one dad book, it's about those little, and once again, not lectures or anything and making it work for guys that hugs are

a good thing.

And it's a page, but and the book is just full of all of those thoughts that can be helpful to guys.

Well, you know, I love that you're writing this.

And I also

am happy that you shared that story about your own dad and your uncle and your grandfather did your dad ever tell you that he loved you

uh

no not that language did he ever tell you that he was proud of you yes

the book the book writing he always wanted to be a writer uh he wasn't he was an insurance salesman he did the best he could and he he he he made a living for help my mother was a teacher between the two of them um

they were functioning alcoholics so that was a a problem.

But once again, they did the best they could.

Yeah, and I think one of the things that's really amazing about what you said, because it's a very, you're giving people grace.

Nobody can pass on what they weren't given.

And when you share the story of what happened in your dad's life and the fact that his own father wasn't present, and it was also a very different time and a different generation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

When you can look at your parents through compassionate eyes, you you can understand that you may have deserved something different or wanted something different, but they could only give you what they had.

You have these life lessons and coming to grips with my father, huge,

understanding that I wanted to write more than anything and that I was going to do it.

I was with a woman for seven years.

She developed a brain tumor, and this was the first love of my life.

And it was just one of the, it was just a great relationship.

And not just looking back at it, it just was.

And everybody who knew us, it was just a wonderful relationship.

She developed a brain tumor.

and after she died and this is also so important to me in terms of you know my journey whatever you want to call it what i realized

after she died was that

one you could deal with death in a in a heroic way which she did unbelievable just the way she dealt with she would you know she never wanted her friends to get bummed out they would come she'd be wearing a funny hat or something just she didn't want them to get bummed out just her her spirit was unbelievable but i also realized, and this was so important for me in terms of maintaining a certain balance in my life and stability and being able to live inside

my own shoes, is that I understood that one, I could love someone in a significant way, love, love, love, love somebody.

And also that I was lovable, which is huge.

huge.

And I think it's particularly huge for guys, the idea that

get past the mask and the phoniness or whatever, that you, this person, this guy, is actually lovable.

And if we could get more guys to that place,

they would have better lives.

Did you not feel lovable as a kid based on how your dad treated you?

I don't think it was just my dad.

I believe that the only reason that they, I'm going to overstate this, that as long as I was top of my class,

that

I was okay.

So that was that the that that was whatever whatever love I was getting, whatever, that it was because of that.

I think a lot of men and young men feel that way.

Well, I think a lot of women do too.

Yes, but men in particular, as long as I'm providing, as long as I'm performing, as long as I'm working, as long as I'm doing something out there,

that's the worth.

And that's going away for a lot of them now.

So they have to adjust, which is one of the reasons why, in terms of this book, the number one dad book,

you know, my realization that

so many guys out there are lost overwhelmed they're no longer the breadwinner or whatever they thought they're going to be or the warrior or whatever is built up in you know their brains over centuries uh that it's all changing uh they are they are lost and they and a lot of them are angry and to help to help them because we did a little bit of research and we reached out and talked to about 4 000 people which is double what quinifiak does yeah well just a couple of questions and one of them was and this is a really interesting one to me uh

could you be a better dad and 89 of the dads said yes they could be better dads that was fascinating to me let's uh take a quick break give our sponsors a chance to share a few words and i also want to give you a chance to share this with people in your life whether it's people who are aspiring writers or your dad or a father figure or your grandfather or your brother or a friend that just had a baby for the first time or i'm thinking about my brother my brother's going to love this he's got two twin 16 year old boys shout out to my nephews but he's going to love this conversation because it reminds you of so much that you know to be true but don't we all need these reminders of course we do and who better to give it to us than the legendary james patterson don't go anywhere because we're going to be waiting for you after this short break stay with us

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Welcome back.

It's your buddy Mel Robbins, and you and I are spending time learning and laughing and enjoying the lessons from none other than James Patterson.

I love this book.

The number one dad book, Be the Best Dad You Can Be in an Hour.

And one of the things that I love about this is you consistently put the focus on being a better father,

not a perfect one.

Why is that?

Perfect doesn't work perfect for me.

I mentioned a little earlier about even when I was in high school and all the way through, people would always come to me and say, what do you think about this?

What do you think about this?

Would this girl like me, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And then as I got older, a lot of my friends and relatives, they would have, you know, younger males come and, you know, what Uncle Jim or, you know, Jim or whatever, what do you think about this?

and in talking to so many of these guys

i began to get a feeling for once again this lost in space kind of thing that these guys are feeling and who am i and what's my purpose and what's the point and and then getting lost in sort of frivolous stuff like cars or i mean cars are fine but i mean you're just really getting over because they have nothing else that meant something in their life and that's that was a big thing in terms of what why i wanted to do this book and the notion of being able to help people some.

And in this case, it's huge because if you help these dads who are lost somewhat, you're going to help the kids, you're going to help the partners.

And I purposely did the one hour because a lot of guys will not read the 400-page book.

So what, and one of my gifts is to be able to compress information.

Well, you know what else I love about this?

Because this is, by the way, James, going to be my number one gift to every new father.

What I love about this is I could put this in a bathroom.

I could put this in a bedroom.

I can pick it it up and I can read any chapter out of order or any little essay.

And I want to read one of them.

I'm reading on page 65, and there are these short, beautiful vignettes.

And one of the lessons is your presence is required.

And you were just talking about how so many men and dads are feeling lost or they're focused on the wrong things or they're distracted.

And so here's one of the essays.

Focused on the wrong things is beautiful.

I mean, it's not in the book, but your words, that's exactly right.

Here's one of my trade secrets.

When I'm writing a novel, I sometimes scrawl a note to myself at the top of the page.

It says, be there.

It reminds me that I need to put the reader in the scene so that they'll really feel it.

The same goes for being a dad.

Let's be honest.

There's lots of distractions in life, the internet, Zoom calls, within-laws, night shifts, Netflix, the NFL drift.

There will be times when you can only give your kids part of your attention.

But whenever you can, as much as you can, focus.

It's not just being around, although that's a big part of it.

It's paying attention, setting other thoughts aside, and really

being present.

There are some woo-woo terms for this, intention, mindfulness, but what it comes down to is this.

When you're with your kids, be there.

Have you ever seen little kids on a school stage lighting up when they spot their parents in the audience?

It's like they're witnessing a miracle.

Now you're the miracle.

You might not be able to be at every recital, every birthday party, and every game, but be it as many as you can.

It matters.

Sure, someone else can shoot video of a game or a birthday, but it's only live once.

Years later, your kids will not remember what song they sang, what flavor cake they had, or whether they won or lost that third match of the season, but they'll remember if you were there.

Yeah, and that's a personal one for me because

somewhere in the book, I say something to the effect of had I done this research, had I thought about it, I could have been a better dad.

I could have been.

And one of the things would be literally be there.

I was there in the sense that I worked at home and I, you know, I was with around Jack a lot, but I could have been more intensely present than I was at times.

So I was, I would be distracted presence at times.

And that would have been better.

How did becoming a father?

later in life really change you well one of the advantages that sue and i had is that we didn't have financial problems.

And that's, that takes something, that baggage out of the way, which is huge.

So we didn't have that.

We were both totally prepared for it.

We were more mature, obviously.

I,

you know, the thing of it was, is that Jane and I, the woman I was with originally, who died, we would have been married and had, you know, it just didn't.

And then it took me a long time to get past that, but I always wanted to have kids.

And then when I got together with Sue,

she wanted to have kids as well.

And we got, she, when I, I think I was 49, we got married.

I think she was 39.

Sue is interesting, too.

My joke line about Sue is, if Sue ever leaves me, I'm going with her.

But

the real story is every once in a while, there are a couple of hours where I can't stand her, but there's never a day goes by that I'm not in love with her.

And that's true.

And we pretty much every night hold hands when we go to sleep, which is, which is, not everybody can do that, but

that's, I think it's nice if you can do it.

There are just so many beautiful, beautiful essays in here.

I would like for you to read this one.

This is on page 101.

Guys.

Guys, let's face it, we screw up a lot.

I know I do, sometimes royally, but here's the silver lining.

That means we can be really, really good at teaching kids about resilience and how to confront challenges and deal with mistakes and own them, which I think is huge.

Life isn't always fair.

I love this section, by the way, not because I wrote it, because I just think there's truth here.

Life isn't always fair.

You already know that.

But it's important that your kids learn it too.

You don't have to be overly negative or pessimistic, just realistic.

Muhammad Ali used to say, there's nothing wrong with getting knocked down as long as you get right back up.

Don't be afraid to discuss tough topics with your kids.

They can take it.

Help them make good decisions.

Get them ready for the real world, which is one of our biggest as parents.

I mean, that's, there was one thing that's it, get them ready for the real world.

It's not getting any easier out there, which I think you know.

To be honest, it seems to be getting harder every year.

You don't need to scare them.

Just prepare them.

How did you prepare Jack?

Well, I think a lot of it is teaching him to sort of be responsible for his own actions, to be comfortable in his own skin.

I think that's huge

if you can help kids to be to, you know, the things that you love to do, being goofy.

He was very goofy.

Okay, that's okay.

You can be goofy.

Be careful of it in school, overdoing it in school.

And in his situation, and I don't know know how this relates to your kids, but yeah, people know your dad and your mom was a big swimmer and whatever, but don't worry about it.

It's all fine.

Accept it within reason

and just move on.

And one of the things in going to a pretty good prep school and then a good college, he had a lot of kids who came, their parents were well known or had done something famous or whatever.

And all of his friends were cool.

None of them, all of them had this thing, I didn't do anything.

I had, there's no reason for me to be.

And I think that's really good.

And occasionally you'd meet every once in a while, there'd be one and you go, well, you know who my dad is?

Blah, blah, blah.

Well, who cares?

I mean, that's cruel too, but we try not to do that.

It's like, be comfortable with who we are, hopefully, but

don't let it get in the way.

You know, this feels like a really good moment to hit the pause button and allow our awesome sponsors to share a few words.

And I also want to give you a chance to share this amazing conversation with James Patterson with people that you love.

Whether they love James Patterson or you just think they're going to love this conversation, take a minute and share it and don't go anywhere because James Patterson and I are going to be waiting for you after a short break.

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Welcome back.

It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

And today you and I are sitting down with the one and only James Patterson.

400 million copies of his books have been sold.

And today we are unpacking the lessons learned, the regrets, the wisdom in his new book, The Number One Dad Book.

So, James, you know, I reached out to Jack.

Oh, really?

Okay.

Yes.

And I have little creep didn't tell me.

And I thought I could trust him.

I'm very persuasive.

And

I have something to play for you.

Hi, dad.

Surprise.

And hi, Mel.

So, Mel wanted me to share a bit about the impact that you've had on my life.

Your strength as a parent, at least from my perspective, was helping me confidently be my own person.

I sometimes felt like I found myself completely trapped in the shadow of my dad.

And that can be, you know, a little disempowering.

You know,

someone goes, oh, well, you know, that's so-and-so's kid, or they even sometimes they would call me James, right?

My name's Jack.

James isn't even my legal name.

You know, someone just seeing you as the son or daughter of insert person here.

um that may seem innocuous but i think it really can eat at you and so you know for me as someone who kind of aimed for the moon

and seems to, you know, maybe not be landing on the moon, but at least getting somewhere, I sort of developed an obsession with overachieving so much that I could kind of prove to this

like imaginary composite person

taking up real estate in my mind that, you know, no way, full stop,

it's me, it's not him.

And I think

your best quality as a parent, dad, at least for me, was encouraging me when possible, not to think that way,

not holding your success over my head as much as possible, not falling into the trap of being the successful person

who made my childhood into a pressure cooker.

So good job.

He's funny.

See what good writer he could have been too.

He's a really good writer.

He has no interest in it, which I get, but he's a really, really good writer

and very funny.

He could have been a comedian.

He's very, he wasn't being funny here, but he can be hilarious.

So anyway, oh, that's great.

That's great.

I'm

glad he liked something that I did.

Excellent.

I think he liked more than just something.

Yeah.

Well, you know, here's the thing about Jack.

Jack calls three or four times a week, which is nice.

And, you know, so

he wants to talk to Sue more than me, but he talks to both of us, you know, so it's that's a rewarding thing.

Well, he's clearly a very mature and very self-aware guy.

And it's clear in the way that he described his experience that he was aware of the pressure he's putting on himself.

Yeah.

And the

compliment that he clearly gave you is that you didn't do that to him.

So if the person who's listening really relates to your story, Because they're like, well, I didn't have a really good example either.

Like one of the things that I get from you and reading your book is that even if it wasn't modeled for you, you have the ability to actually change how you show up and be a different kind of dad.

Well, I think we all do on some level.

You just have to commit to it.

You know, with Let Them, you have that one piece, which I, which I love.

I just, it actually,

a small piece of it, and actually something I talked to with President Clinton about, this notion of don't, let's not waste our life or our time worrying about stuff we can't do anything about.

And if we can do something, let's do it.

Which fictional character that you've created and written about has had the biggest impact

on the way that you think about fatherhood?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Actually, across Michael Bennett, who has this big family.

And

I like doing stories where you go like, well, gee, that would never happen.

Michael Bennett has like nine or 10 kids.

And you go like, what?

Yeah.

But I love it, the fact that it is so outrageous and then making it work.

But in both cases, what those stories are about on some level is balancing your work life with

your home life.

That's what Alex does.

And in the series that's on Prime Video with Alex, we have Aldous Hodge, who has this real intense look.

So when he's out there as a cop, you really feel that.

And at home, and he's a new father as a human being, but in the story, he's great with the kids.

And that balance, which I think is huge, there's a thing in the book about the five balls,

which is a great little story that I think was very useful for me anyway, which is...

If you think of life as you're juggling these five balls and it's family and health and

I'll lose track of some of them, spirits, which is sort of soul, work is one.

And if you drop family, if you drop work, it's a rubber ball and it bounces.

If you drop one of the others, family or health along the way, it's not rubber and it gets scuffed or it might even shatter.

I think for most of us, and this relates to this book as well, in terms of why I think it's useful for people.

At the end of the day, when we're looking back at our lives, it's going to be more how we raised our family in terms the most important job you're ever going to have is as a mom and a dad.

It's going to be more important than whatever that you ever did, than being selling insurance or being an accountant or whatever.

I mean, and to realize that a little bit and have that drive you and it helps you to put up with some of the stuff you have to put up with.

And you realize just, you know, that's, that's probably the most important thing that we do.

It's a really profound thing to hear you say.

Because I think from the outside, somebody would look at the body of work and the impact that you've made having sold more than 400 million books and the series and movies and the way that these stories have transported and inspired and like really enriched people's lives.

And they would probably think that for you, it would be that artistry and that body of work.

Yeah.

Well, you know, it's interesting, Mel, that I don't, I don't look at that stuff as being all that impressive or anything.

It just, there it is.

I interviewed Peggy Noonan about a week or so ago.

And both she and I, we tend to be looking forward rather than backward.

I do, I just don't, you know, people go, do you have regrets?

I don't really think about regrets much.

I'm sure I do, but I, it's mainly, okay, what's what's next?

What are we going to do next?

So the thing about selling all the books and all that,

I mean, I'm happy.

You know, it's helped me to live a good life.

And in particular, being able to do what I love to do.

So one of the things that you've talked about is the importance to you and your wife, Sue, to really support literacy.

And one of the essays is about reading.

Read to your kids.

I'm on page 45.

You read.

It doesn't take much time to make a big difference.

Reading to your kids helps boost their brainpower.

It gives them new worlds and new waves of putting them together.

Talk more about why this is so important as a dad to read to your kids.

If it works.

And one of the things that I say in the book, which I think is useful, is there's going to be certain things in here you're not going to be able to do or you're not going to agree with.

And it doesn't matter.

The important thing here is at the end of this book,

and I think this is going to be true for every dad out there, pretty much.

I'm going to guess at that anyway.

If you read the book and you keep your mind open, you're going to pick up two or three or four things that are going to make you better at what you're doing.

And you'll be happier about it.

You'll be more fulfilled.

So I don't, you know, the reading to the, I think it's really useful.

It's not for everybody because some people, it's just not their thing.

And that's okay.

But I do think, and in particular, and there were studies about this, that if you have books, if you read to your kids, if you talk to your kids a lot,

their vocabularies are just going to increase dramatically.

So that when they get to kindergarten or first grade, they'll be so ahead of the path.

One of the things that I've been working on with the University of Florida for now five or six years, the percentage of kids reading at grade level in this country is like 43%,

which is a disgrace.

Disgraceful.

When I was growing up, small town,

little Catholic school, everybody in our class could read.

Everybody could read.

Everybody.

What the hell is going on?

This is insanity.

So we've adopted ways of teaching kids to read that don't work.

And it's true in pretty much every state.

Massachusetts, very, the percentage here is under 50%.

That's ridiculous.

It's insane.

All right.

University of Florida has this program.

They can get it up into the 80s.

And it's just, so it's now in, I think, 13 counties in Florida.

Canada picked it up like crazy.

We're making a little documentary about it.

And I visited some schools.

And you sit in these classes.

You could fake it for 10 minutes, but I'll sit for like an hour.

And these kids are so turned on by this program.

A lot of it is going back to phonics and stuff.

And the kids are so, they love it.

It's fun.

They're excited.

And the scores just go up, up, up, up, up.

Even some of these schools where the percentage of kids reading in Graveville is like 10%, all of a sudden it's up into the 50s and 60s.

One of the things that I'll talk about when I go out and talk to teachers and librarians or whatever, I'm here to save lives.

And I don't mean I am, but the program is.

What is your most favorite essay in this book?

Do you have one?

No, I don't think so.

And what I try to do at the end is

to help people.

Here are some of the things, in case you're forgetting, I encourage them to go through and cross out stuff or star stuff that they like.

Yes, have, you have some, you have a really, really great thing at the end.

If just two or three or five of these ideas work for you, you'll be a better dad.

Yeah.

And that's one hour very well spent.

Be consistently fair.

Trust really is built on consistency and trust is everything.

What is it important to be consistent about?

The trust is everything is a real thing.

You just need, if your kids trust you, if you trust them within reason,

that's huge.

That will last.

You will always have a relationship with them, a good relationship.

Consistency, if you think about sports, if the refs aren't consistent in a football game,

if they're like, oh, sometimes they play it close, sometimes they give them a lot of room, the game doesn't work.

And that consistency, like here's kind of within reason, the way we operate.

And, you know, and if the kids go, that's just not fair, you need to listen to them a little bit.

And someday, obviously, you know, we're having a bad day and we're not going to be consistent that day or we

shoot our mouth off more than we should.

And

there are things in there about, you know, try, I know this isn't totally possible, but try not to have arguments in front of the kids, especially heated ones, especially if it's about them.

Take it outside.

We talk about that doing that,

which is really important.

Talk about things like

guys being able to say, I was wrong.

This is an important one.

Well,

and the line I throw in there, you know, once again, I try to keep it semi-humorous because you want the guys to sort of, you know, not think they're getting preached to.

And I'm not preaching, I'm just strong stuff, but I was wrong.

And I said, just in case it ever happens,

which is, which is, yes, it is important because a lot of guys think that if they, if they, if they admit they were wrong, that somehow it lessens them as a human, as a guy, as a, no, I was wrong.

And this is why this book is so important.

It's why I'm going to buy it for every single new dad that I know is because

I think that you get just caught up in the day-to-day and in your emotions and being tired and just the grind of it all that it's easy to forget the things that you know deep down are true.

Yeah.

You know what I think about this book?

I think people are going to read it in an hour and they're going to get a tremendous amount out of it.

But I think it's one of these books that stays with you and that you keep on your desk.

And if you were to just pick this up once a day or a couple of times a week and you read one two-page essay, it's almost like walking into a church and hearing the sermon that you needed to hear.

Yeah.

It just gives you a grounding point

to have you focus on one thing that will make you a better dad and a better person.

If you know this, Mel,

and it's obvious in everything that you do.

If you want to move forward, if you want to be better, if you want to eliminate certain things from your life, you must form habits.

It has to be habits.

You know, Jack had a question for you.

Okay.

And so I'd love to play this question.

You guys clearly have a very playful relationship.

He's very funny.

He's very funny.

So I'm going to play the video for you.

Be gentle, Jack.

So my question to you is,

looking back,

if you could do it over again,

you know, what would you have done differently?

And what do you think your shortcomings were?

Yeah, I think, you know, a piece of it is

to be there better, to be there, to be, I tend to be distracted.

I tend to, I'm creative.

I'm always thinking of something else when I'm, you know, whatever.

So being there more for him would have been huge.

And then agreeing to more, Sue's very, she loves, she'll travel anywhere.

They go to Iceland together.

I should have done more of the trips with them.

I have a little, just personally, like we go to Florence and after two days, I've seen enough.

Jack, we can go for a week.

Let's go to another church.

Let's go.

He loves that kind of stuff.

So I should have, I should have been better at that kind of thing.

I think that would have been helpful.

That would have a little better bonding, you know, would have come out of that for sure.

So you said, you you talked earlier about preparing your child for the world we live in, and the world certainly is changing.

Where do you even begin as a parent?

I have a nonfiction book coming at the end of the year, Disrupt Everything.

Really?

And it has to do with this age of disruption we're in now, which is just...

insanity.

And I don't just mean what's going on with the government, just in general.

There's so much, I mean, disease, weather,

college, sports, everything you look at, it's all just changing.

And if we don't,

and a lot of it is, from our points of view, it becomes negative.

Our work, our business, people are getting fired.

It's a very tough situation.

And if we don't learn to disrupt positively,

it's going to be very hard for people.

So

that book is about disrupting positively.

Is there anything that you would love to see dads disrupt in terms of the old model of fatherhood?

Once again, that's why, and I wish I had one thing,

but there are so many, there's things about trust,

about listening.

Listening is huge, you know, listening.

A lot of dads, a lot of people in general, they don't listen.

Telling kids your story, listening to their story,

to the kids' story,

getting them comfortable walking in their own shoes, getting them comfortable, helping them to figure out what the core of them is.

And that core is not, yeah, I know you got the acne and that really is irritating, but that's not who you are.

Don't worry about that.

That's, we get it.

And it's, we've had acne.

You don't understand.

Well, you're right.

I don't entirely understand.

Or the clothes.

Clothes are okay, but that's not who you are.

That's not who you are.

Who is that?

What's that core?

What's that core Jack, our Jack?

That was always the thing of, what is that?

You know, okay, the shoes, but the shoes, they won't matter that much.

I know you have a thing in general about people, which I agree with, you know, stop buying stupid stuff.

Try not to.

Maybe it is the way to make you feel better temporarily, but just be a little mindful of that.

Well, you know what I heard in Jack's acknowledgement of you?

Is that the thing that you did really well is that you did teach him that

he.

is himself at his core.

He's not just your son.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you did a good job at that.

Were you able to hear that acknowledgement?

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, no, no.

And it was, that was probably the thing that Sue and I concentrated on the most, just making him comfortable being Jack, understanding who Jack is right now, and that could change, who he was when he was 12, who, you know, and just be comfortable with that.

One of the things that I also love about your book, James, is that it's not just for dads.

So on page 145, you have an essay, you're not a dad, and that's 100% okay.

What about the guys who aren't dads?

Whether by choice or by circumstances, being a dad isn't for everyone.

Maybe you wanted children, but you weren't in the right relationship at the right time.

Maybe you have a medical history that makes having kids challenging or not possible.

Maybe you just don't really want to spend all that time with rugby.

And the thing I don't put in there is maybe you can't find a partner.

Yes.

Which is true for a lot of males now.

Yeah.

And women.

Yeah.

And, you you know, you talk about the fact, but chances are there are still plenty of, quote, dad opportunities for you.

You care about the world, its future, and the kids growing up in it.

Those kids may not be your own sons and daughters, but they need your help.

Everybody needs somebody who believes in them, shows them how to get to where they're going, makes them feel seen and heard.

You know, you offer up like some suggestions here.

Again, another thing I love about this book, it's not just essays that make you think.

It's essays that encourage you to do.

Be a mentor.

You work hard at your job.

You've learned a lot about life.

Don't keep it to yourself.

That's a way that you can apply the lessons of this book.

Be a coach.

If you love sports, you played sports, you know sports, everyone remembers their favorite coach.

Be that guy.

Be an uncle.

If you have a brother or sister with kids, you've got a potentially terrific role to play with your nieces and nephews.

And one day when you have kids, you can be their favorite.

Oh, wait.

That's right.

You're talking about nieces and nephews and that you can play catch, play Minecraft, find the last piece of a jigsaw puzzle, but let them put it in.

Oh, I love that.

Let them put in the last piece of a jigsaw puzzle.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, part of it, once again, it's just going to the next step

in whatever the heck it is that you're doing.

There's also a chapter in there about grandparents, which is another important thing.

Grandfathers, grandmothers, really important to

families.

And sometimes, you know, the relationships with the grandparents might not be so good

from the father's point of view or the mother's point of view.

But do your best to let them in anyway.

Yes.

Because they might not be the same people they were when you were growing up.

They might be kinder, gentler, whatever the heck it is.

And it's useful for

the kids to...

to hear their experiences.

They'll know things about the family that you might not remember or whatever, more of the DNA of the family, and all that stuff

useful for the kids.

And a lot of it has to do with the kids.

One, you know, just such an important thing about this is this is not the book about perfect.

This is a book about getting better because perfect done work.

So to the person that's listening right now, who's just in the thick of it, I mean, you know, there's Legos all over the floor and diapers to change.

It's in that messy stage.

We talk about diapers.

We talk about the thing, you know, and for the guy to get in there and do it, hold your nose and clean up.

There's a funny chapter about diaper changing.

Very funny.

But there's also something more poignant, which is about how quickly this all goes.

And so what do you want to tell the person that's listening?

You know, the thing of it is, as difficult as some of the days may be,

you know, 20 years from now, 15 years from now, you'd give a million dollars to have that experience back again,

which I think is mostly true.

And part of it is, is just help me get through the day.

That's always, and if you're getting better, better, if things are improving, that always helps.

You know, the idea that today is better than yesterday in some way, even if a lot of stuff isn't working that well,

that's useful.

You know, one of the things that, you know, I think a lot about in terms of the topic of advice is that I personally believe that you are best equipped to help the person you used to be.

And that if you are open as you are and you go through life with an open mind and an open heart, you can learn something from absolutely everybody that you meet.

And so, I think what you've achieved in the number one dad book, honestly, because you keep saying I didn't boil it down to one thing, I think you actually did.

I think you created not only something that you can read in an hour, but I think you created a lifeline for somebody to just open up

and be able to be reminded of the power that you have to do just a little better today.

And every single one of the essays that you've written will help you do it.

Yeah, well, that's very kind of you and touching.

And

I think there's some truth there.

Boy,

I love the idea that tomorrow I can be a little better at something.

So my favorite essay is the one you wrote on page 95.

And I would love to have you read it.

Kids benefit from seeing their parents respecting each other and being affectionate with each other.

A little parental PDA can show them what a healthy, loving relationship looks like.

So let them see you holding hands.

Let them see you hug.

Let them see you kiss.

Let them hear you say, I love you, which I think is monstrously important if people can do it.

If you do it often enough, they'll learn not to chirp, ooh, every time they see you hugging or kissing or whatever.

Now, some dads will say, I'm not an I love you kind of guy.

Says who?

Who passed that law?

Your dad?

Your dad's dad?

You can be an I love you guy.

You can change at least a little.

You'll be a better man for it.

Saying, I love you is not a sign of weakness.

It's a sign of strength.

Now go ahead, say, I love you.

Was that so hard?

If it was,

say it again.

Okay, I'll say it.

I love you, man.

I love you, James Patterson.

Thank you.

I love you too.

This is fun.

This is nice.

This is actually, in some ways, the nicest experience I've had of this sort since hanging out with Dolly Parton.

Well, I've loved every minute of getting to meet you, of getting to sit down and learn from you.

You are delightful.

You are so caring.

And I'm going to reflect this back to you.

You are such a caring, curious, smart, and loving guy.

Thank you, James.

And thank you.

Thank you for being here with me and James Patterson.

And I know James already told you that he loves you, man, but I wanted to be sure that I told you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life.

And there were so many amazing moments and nuggets and pieces of wisdom that James shared with you and me today that I am certain that this conversation will help you and the people that you share this with do exactly that.

Alrighty, I will see you in the very next episode.

I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play.

I'll see you there.

I'm so thrilled that you're here.

We're not starting.

Yeah, I'm so damn excited.

I'm already starting the show and we're not even rolling.

Sorry.

Okay, that was a rehearsal.

Yeah, that was great.

That was great, Mel.

That was great.

I'm very persuasive.

And

I have something to play for you.

Okay.

Oh, this makes me a little frightened.

Where do I see it?

Oh, it's coming.

Okay.

All right.

Here comes Jackie.

This is on page 101.

Let me get my spectacles.

Now, those glasses are the same style.

How do you know which ones you're wearing?

Why do you not have progressives?

I don't know.

Because I've never been able to, I like trip over stairs and stuff.

Boom.

We got it.

That's it.

That's it.

Any last words?

No, no, just kidding.

Oh, and one more thing.

And no, this is not a blooper.

This is the legal language.

You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.

This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.

I'm just your friend.

I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.

Got it?

Good.

I'll see you in the next episode.

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