11 Crazy Facts About Laundry, Showering, & Getting the “Little Stuff” Done That Will Make You Laugh (and Prove You’re Doing Better Than You Think)

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Terms and conditions apply. Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
Is it just me? Or some days, does it feel freaking impossible to stay on top of everything you have to do at home? I mean, from the laundry, to the dishes, to dinner, to groceries, pick up this, pick up that, walk the dogs, feed the cat. It is endless.
And look, I know I'm not the only person who's overwhelmed. And I'm probably not the only person that looks at a pile of laundry and I see it as evidence that there's something wrong with me, that I can't get the laundry done.
Because I keep getting DMs from so many listeners of this podcast and you feel the exact same thing. Just listen to what fellow listeners are saying.
Mel, when everything gets overwhelming and multiple things happen at once, crazy workload, breakup, moving, I feel the need to protect the literal energy that I have for my kids. And then I'm drowning in the household chores.
Or this one. Everything is up in my energy, even getting out of bed in the morning, so now I'm trying to avoid washing my hair for days.
Been there. How about this one? Emptying the dishwasher, laundry, you name it.
I'm a single mom that works full-time. My whole life is overwhelming.
Or this one. When it gets to be too much, caring for myself always goes first.
Showering, brushing my teeth, and then all of a sudden,

the wheels come off on the household chores. Or this one, dishes.
I hate doing the dishes. Hate, hate, hate.
You know what? Me too. Same, same, same.

Or finally, I am just so overwhelmed with all the little things at the moment,

I don't even know where to start.

Well, guess what?

You don't have to know where to start because on behalf of you and me, I got us help and I found this amazing woman named Casey Davis.

Now, she's a therapist, but she sounds more like a wise friend. And I love that.
And what she says is the problem isn't the dishes, the laundry, or the cleaning. It's the shame and the judgment that you and I are putting on ourselves.
And she is here to show us that there is a way to take the pressure off yourself and get your to-do list done and still manage to take care of yourself because you deserve that. In fact, within the first two pages of her bestselling book, How to Keep House When Drowning, I actually exhaled because she gets it.
And more importantly, her wisdom, her genius step-by-step advice, her simple hacks are going to help you rise above the dirty dishes to a more compassionate and loving you. When you can remove the shame from your to-do list, you will improve your life immediately.
And that's my mission today, to prove to you that you don't have to have it all together. You aren't broken.
You're just like the rest of us. You're human.
And it's about damn time you and I talk about this. So please help me welcome Casey Davis to the Mel Robbins podcast.

Casey, we've been waiting for you, woman.

Hello.

Hello.

So Casey, I am so glad you are here because, you know, I struggle with staying organized

and not beating myself up over it. I pretty much have my shit together in so many areas of my life.
Can you explain why it's so hard to just get the simple chores done around the house? So I think there's kind of four variables here. I think on a very basic level, there are emotional difficulties.
So if we can't get the laundry done on time, if the dishes are in the sink, we tend to tell ourselves that that's about us failing. That's about us not being good enough.
And that can really make it difficult to find motivation to get on top of those tasks, to think of creative ways to help yourself. I think for some people, there's a physical aspect to it.
You know, disability is a very real variable in making some of those tasks difficult. And then, of course, usually you have the emotional on top of it, right? It's hard for me to do this, and therefore I must be failing.
And then we have the mental aspect of it. I think that there's a lot of people when they're under stress, when they're in bereavement, when life is just hard.
You know, we don't appreciate how complex our brain is when it does those little tasks and how our brain can go from doing things on autopilot to all of a sudden, every step feels like you have to make yourself do it. Laying on top of all of that are just the societal messages that we have gotten about care tasks and about whose job it is to do those care tasks.
What does it mean about the value of that labor to get those care tasks done? You know, who should be above doing those types of tasks and whose job is it to do those tasks. And so I think you run into a long history societally of, you know, what do we think about domestic labor and about women and about people of color, people of color and how much should we have to pay for this kind of labor that we maybe don't see as valuable.
And so there's surprisingly quite a bit of racism and sexism involved in those societal messages. That makes a lot of sense.
From my own personal experience, I just think about the fact that I grew up in a house where my dad worked out of the house and my mom was a stay-at-home mom for most of it. And she did everything around the house.
And it got ingrained in me subconsciously

that it's just my job. And that if I'm not able to do that job on top of every other job, then

something must be wrong with me. How does that piece, the subconscious piece of what was modeled

for you and what society tells you and the fact that let's just face it, most dudes are not doing

the same amount of work. The division of labor in a household is proven by research, should not

Thank you. you and the fact that, let's just face it, most dudes are not doing the same amount of work.
The division of labor in a household is proven by research to not be equal between people who identify as male and people who identify as female. Well, it's that same modeling.
They saw their mother do it all. And they saw their dad not do it.
They saw the men, you know, get around the football game after Thanksgiving while the women went in the kitchen and cleaned the dishes. And so much of this domestic labor is invisible.
You don't realize how much work has been done unless it's not done. Oh, that's so true.
How does what you saw growing up or what society has sort of imprinted on all of us. how does that impact what you're talking about when there's moral weight to whether or not the dishes are done or the laundry is done or your house is clean or you got it all together? Well, you start to think, you know, my value, I think this especially happens for people who identify as women, my value is directly tied to my ability to pull this off.
And even in, you know, I consider myself a very progressive woman, a very feminist woman. I don't think my value is how good I am at laundry, but then it becomes something even more insidious, which is I should be able to have this career and not let my house fall to shit.
That's what boss ladies do. And if I can't do that, you know, then I feel as though I'm failing.
And then those old societal things that I didn't even think I believed about, well, if people come over, they're going to judge me for this house not being clean. I could not agree more.
I am just like you in feeling like, okay, I'm a feminist and I'm a badass boss lady and I can do it all. But as I'm standing in the laundry room and I see what is almost always a parade of piles on the floor, and I'm lucky enough that I've got a little room with a machine in it, I can do my laundry.
I look at these piles on the floor. I look at the crisp white towels that I once bought at Target.
And I say to myself, why are they blue? Why did somebody have to wash them with a pair of jeans? Why can't I stay on top of this? And I feel this level of overwhelm and failure that I don't want to feel. And this is universal.
I was so blown away by the number of people that poured into the DMs and the comments that listened to this show that are overwhelmed by the simplest tasks of keeping up with your stuff at home and taking care of yourself. And so, aside from the bigger messaging, which I agree with you, how does that impact why it's so hard? Here we are, 2023, where we're not only supposed to be on top of all the housework, but most of us are also supposed to have jobs and have ambitions and be a girl boss and do all these things.
And it's just, frankly, too much for one person to handle. We have looked at care tasks as moral obligations.
That this is the sign of whether or not I'm a valid adult. I'm a good mother.
I'm a competent spouse, I have my stuff together, and we equate having our shit together with being a worthwhile human being, being deserving of love. You're right.
I just thought I was disorganized. This is a crisis of how I am actually showing up as a human being when I stare at these piles.
It goes so much deeper, which is why what I read over and over and over again in the DMs is this heaviness around doing household chores and taking care of yourself. Mm-hmm.
Let's keep going even deeper. You talked about the fact that chores and other actions around your house, doing the dishes, keeping it tidy, cleaning the bathroom, taking out the trash, that these are morally neutral.
What the hell does that mean? So most of us, you know said, we look at the laundry, we walk by the dishes, and there's this message we give ourselves of, I'm really screwing up. Worst case, I'm a failure.
I don't deserve love. Best case, okay, see, get it together.
There's just this constant frustration and we feel as though they are truly reflections of our character as a person and and the biggest message that I have for people is that it is a morally neutral task mess is morally neutral dishes do not make meaning only people do and we are assigning that meaning that's coming from our head it's our voice, maybe it's someone in our lives voice that's kind of internalized, but we're the one walking by the dishes and going, look at what a failure I am. It's true.
But I still don't quite get it. Because to me, when I see piles of dishes everywhere, when I see parades of laundry, when I can't get out of bed and on those mornings where I don't want to make my bed, or I see the trash piling over, or like this morning, this morning I went to make a cup of coffee and the state of the milk in the carton was, you know, when you pick up a carton of milk and it's got maybe an inch and you kind of shake it and you're like, uh-oh.

Uh-oh, is that like, is this going to be okay? And then you screw off the top and take a whiff and you're like, this just turned. So I can't even get it together to get to the store to get a gallon of milk so that I can have my coffee here.
And then I stand there and I'm like, just what you said, Mel, what the hell? You can't even like get the fridge stocked. You can't keep milk in place for yourself so you can have a cup of coffee for crying out loud.
What is wrong with you? Yeah. So the meaning that you made about that.
But isn't that true? Like, isn't there something wrong with the fact that I can't keep the fridge stocked and I can't keep on top of the laundry? Like, aren't I doing something wrong? Well, that's the meaning that you made of it. But let me ask you this, Mel.
Like, what else could it mean? What else could that pile of laundry mean? It could mean that we've had nonstop visitors for the last 10 days and people use a lot of towels. That's what that means.
Yeah. So that's kind of like a neutral thing, right? Like, oh, we had visitors.
That's certainly morally neutral. Let me tell you, what did you do with those visitors while they were here? We hung out.
We had a great time. We swam in the pond.
We watched the sunset.

We ate great meals. We played cribbage.
We went out to dinner. It was awesome.
So you exercised hospitality. You prioritized those relationships while they were in your home.
I mean, to me, that laundry means something good about you. Oh, I love you already.
This is good. Right? Like you've prioritized something that I think if we were all just to look at the objectively is more important than the laundry that day or however many days.
Now, don't get me wrong. You still deserve clean clothes.
So I'm not saying laundry doesn't matter. But it sounds like that mess in your home actually means really good things about you.
It's true. So I have a question that I want you to answer when we come back from the break.
And the question, Casey, is this. What if you have that same pile of laundry and it's just you solo and you haven't had a bunch of visitors and you can't find a reason that's important enough for why you haven't done it? Stay with us because Casey is going to give us the answer to that question when we return.
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Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins, and I'm here with the remarkable Casey Davis, and she is freeing me and you from laundry shame.
She has just told me that my piles of laundry mean nothing about my worth as a person, and household chores are what she says are morally neutral. Casey, let's take this further.
So if somebody that's listening is like, well, I had no visitors and it's just piled up. Like the kids' soccer stuff is piled up or my roommate's pile of laundry is in front of my pile of laundry, or it's like now at the end of my bed because the laundromat is down the street.
How would you flip that for somebody listening? Well, it helps to think what would I say to a friend sometimes in this case, because what if what it means about you is that you're having a hard time? But don't people who are having a hard time deserve compassion? And aren't you also people? Like, does it have to mean, it doesn't have, we don't,

it's not toxic positivity. It doesn't have to mean something great about you, although sometimes it does.
Right. Maybe it just means you're having a hard week.
What, what immediately occurred to me, Casey is that I think it's easier for many of us to say, you're a piece of shit, or you can't deal, than to drop deeper and be honest with yourself and admit that the pile of laundry at the end of your bed means you're just having a hard time. It's overwhelming at work.
You've been fighting with your significant other. You are feeling a little lost.
And that's what that pile of laundry represents, which is why it feels kind of scary on some level that it's gotten to this. Does that make sense? And it's not an indictment though.
You know what I mean? It's like, I don't want to recognize that I'm having a hard time so that I can then

feel bad about myself. Because we get into this rat race of self-improvement where my worthiness is tied to how self-improved I am.
Like, I must optimize my mental health and my emotional health and my physical health and my nutrition and my gut health, like, at all times, right? And the truth is, is that the reason we pursue those things is because it increases our quality of life. It's not a, I'm more lovable when I'm on top of the laundry.
I'm more lovable when I'm doing self-care. For so many of us, self-care just becomes another thing that we can't get to, that we don't have the time for, that we don't have the energy for.

And now we feel bad.

Great.

I can't even take care of myself.

Right.

What a piece of shit I am.

Right.

No, it's so true.

And so how do you want all of us, and especially you listening to this conversation, to think about self-care, brushing your teeth, washing your face, resting, eating okay, being kind to yourself. How do you want us to think about self-care? Because you're right.
So many of us, I know, I feel like I put my business first. I put my kids first.
I put the dogs first. I put my husband first.
I put everybody that works for me first. And I often don't do the things for me that I know that I need.
And then I make myself wrong for not taking care of myself. Yeah.
So how do you want us to think about taking care of ourselves? Well, I want us to bring it down to the very basics, like away from bubble baths and pedicures and yoga and things like, and to the very basics of laundry, dishes, you know, a clear space to walk. Not that those things are a measure of whether you're failing or not, because like we established, there will be days where the laundry means, oh, I must be having a hard time.
And there'll be days when laundry means I'm nailing it today. I'm actually prioritizing all the things that need to prioritize.
So that's what we mean when we say the laundry itself, morally neutral, it could give you some information. But it's it's morally neutral.
There's nothing wrong with laundry, I would not be able to know whether you were feeling good or bad by looking at your laundry. But self-care at its core is about doing a task that cares for self.
And we've gotten to a place where we see the dishes and the laundry, not only in service for other people, like my job is just to do those things for the people in my home, but also as this external measurement for whether I'm measuring up, as opposed to looking at the laundry and going, okay, it's been a busy week.

I had friends.

I loved that. I prioritized the right things.
And I deserve clean clothes. And I deserve clean dishes to eat off of.
And my kids deserve a clean place to play.

And the beauty of that is that that does not require that you do all of your laundry or all of your dishes or have a perfectly clean playroom. What does it mean? We want to get away from, is it clean enough? Is it perfect? Will Better Homes and Gardens come take a picture of this? Will my mother-in-law judge me? And just, is it functional? Because sometimes I'm in a place where there's a lot going on, good, bad, stressful, happy, and I can see I'm not going to have clean clothes if I don't do some laundry.
And I can make the choice, okay, for the next two hours, I'm going to do all the laundry. Or I can make the choice, you know what, I'm going to wash and dry one outfit, because I don't have the capacity to do anything else right now.
But I do deserve clean clothes tomorrow. Or I can go, you know what, I am privileged enough to have the budget to ship this shit out this week.
And there's nothing moral about that decision. I, that's what I should I hate doing laundry.
And I'm in a position finally at the age of 54 and working my tail off that I could probably drop things off at a laundromat and have somebody else do it. There was so much that you just said there that I want to unpack because I'm going to confess something to everybody.
And you might not believe that this is true, but this is an actual fact. Mel Robbins does laundry when she runs out of underwear.
That is when I do my laundry. And it's at that moment, because I do believe I deserve clean underwear.
I'm beyond the days of college where I would sometimes turn them inside out. Don't tell me you haven't done that in a pinch, everybody.
That's the tipping point. And I want to stay on this topic of why some of these simple or seemingly simple chores or tasks of taking care of yourself can be so daunting.
Let's talk about showering. Because one of the things that I noticed in the 56 pages of DMs that we received in a matter of 12 hours from our audience about feeling overwhelmed by chores or taking care of yourself.
Showers kept coming up. I'm going to read some from our listeners.
One of my first indicators that I'm slipping into a funk is I start avoiding showers. Perhaps it's a reflection of how I subconsciously view myself, but I can't even find the energy to want to.
Another one, I say to myself, I can sit here and do nothing and feel like crap, or I can move and do things and feel crappy. But on my worst mental health days, even taking a shower is so incredibly exhausting.
Here's another one. My self-doubt got so bad after a breakup at one point, even the thought of showering was exhausting.
Can you help us understand why something that seems on the surface, like something that you would do every day, it's not that big of a deal, is actually daunting? Well, it really comes down to brain science and the way that your brain works. The part of your brain that does things like make the decision to get up and do something, time management, shifting your focus back and forth, maintaining that motivation.
All of these little things are called executive functions. And everyone has had the experience of maybe having a stressful day at work or a lot going on and you're thinking and you're thinking and you're thinking and you just hit a wall and your brain goes, I'm done.
I'm not doing this anymore. I call that Tuesday.
Yeah. And that happens to us.
It happens to us under stress. It happens to us with sleep deprivation.
It happens to us with physical pain. It happens to us if we've just had a lot to do that day.
It happens to us if there's a lot of emotional things going on. And it happens to us if we have a disorder or a struggle that just biologically compromises those executive functions.
So if we have ADHD, autism, PTSD, depression, anxiety, OCD, all of those things. And so we think souring is this simple two-step process.
It's more like 35 steps. And when your executive functions are firing properly, it runs like autopilot.
I mean, think about getting on a plane and taking off and you're thinking, okay, you get on the plane, you take off. But if you were to look at that from the perspective of the guy in the air traffic control, and how much he's doing, you got these planes in air, these planes here, move this plane over there, land this one, take off this one, this one needs to stall, this one needs to go in a circle, and move this plane over there.
And we have a service issue on this plane. So back it up off of this one.
And I need this plane to kind of circle around for a while I address this. And that is how complex your brain is when it is trying to do even a simple task.
And that is your executive functioning. It's trying to deal with your emotions, your thoughts, the time management, your behaviors, what behavior should it initiate, what feelings are coming in,

what information do you need to consider about the rest of your day? I mean, it is that complex. Not to mention what the pilot's doing.
Walk us through these invisible 35 steps, or at least the first couple, so that you really break this down and allow the person listening to understand that when you're overwhelmed,

this isn't just hop in the shower and hop out. This is a series of conscious decisions and actions that you need to take at a moment in time where you already feel like you're moving in quicksand.
So let's just break down something simple like showering or brushing your teeth. So wherever you are, you have to think about the shower.
That's step one. Then you're gonna have feelings about the shower and you're gonna have to navigate those feelings.
And so however many steps that takes you, you're gonna have some thoughts about whether or not you do or do not want to shower and you're gonna have to contend with those thoughts. So you just read those people's examples and you can hear their first step.
Oh, I haven't done this in so long. Oh, what a piece of junk I am.
I'm so dirty. I'm ashamed.
I can't let anybody know about this. So already we're in a hard spot.
Now we're having to contend with a bunch of emotions that make us feel like failures. And our brain is naturally going to want to go, nope, we need to move away.
We need to move away from the thing that makes us feel like a failure. You are going to need to make a motor plan to stand up and you're going to stand up.
You're going to have to think about whether or not you have time to shower. Maybe you need to also deal with the time management aspect.
Do you have time to take a shower? Short shower? Long shower? What else do you have to do today? Do you need to go pick something up? You don't want to do that dirty, but you also want to go exercise. And so you don't want to do that clean.
And you got to figure all that out in your brain. Where are the kids? What's happening with the dogs? Is the roommate here? How much time do you have to shower? Do you need to set an alarm? Do you need to get some clean towels? Do you have clothes to wear? You need to think about what you're doing that day.
That's a step, right? Like if I want to go to drop something off for my kid at school, and I don't want to look dirty to do it, but also I wanted to go exercise and I don't want to go exercise clean. That seems silly.
So you got to figure that out. This is all before we've even gotten to the bathroom, by the way.
And so we're going to go to the bathroom on the way to the bathroom. One really important step is ignoring all of the stimuli coming in on the way to the bathroom.
So if you see other things that need to be done, other things that are going to try to take your attention. So we get to the shower.
Oh, the shower is dirty. Why did my roommate leave their razor in here? Uh, uh, uh, what time is it? Now you have to take your clothes off and that might bring lots of steps that might bring in some steps dealing with how you feel about yourself, how you feel about your body, that's going to bring in maybe some sensory issues.
Are you cold? Are you hot? Do you need to do something different? Do you want to adjust the temperature? Do you want to turn on it? Like all those steps, right? Now we have to turn on the water. So we can turn the water on.
Now we have to wait, we have to wait for it to get to a certain temperature. And then we need to adjust it.
And let's hope that your water's working and on by the way, or we're going to have to take some time to think about the financial struggles that you're under. Or you know, that you don't have one of those ones that either gives you ice cold or lava of Mordor because then we can think about our plumbing for a while.
So you get it right to where it needs to be. Your clothes are off, you make sure you have a towel, you make sure you have a bath mat.
You get in. You make sure that you have your shampoo and your this and your that.
And did you get your razor out? Because I'm always getting in and realizing I don't have my razor because I've taken something out of the thing, right? Now you have to decide kind of what order you're going to go in. People feel very strongly about this.
So you're going to wash your hair and you're going to do it right. And then you're going to think about how you're supposed to wash it twice, but maybe you won't.
And what does that mean? And then you're going to have just like random thoughts. Do I have shampoo? Do I want to blow dry my hair? If I get my hair wet, should I get my hair wet? If I'm not getting my hair wet, where is the thing to put my hair up in? Yeah.
There's lots of steps in processing the random thoughts. And so you don't get distracted and just stand there.
Then you're going to do the conditioner. So maybe you rinse, wash, repeat.
Maybe you didn't. What's happening with that water? Do you have other things going on? Are you wanting to run the dishwasher? Does somebody else need to take a shower? How long can you sit here under this hot water? So we're going to do that.
Then you're going to do your body. Do you have the soap? Do you have a loofah? Are you going to use your loofah? What order are you going to go in on your body so you don't end up washing your face right after your ass, right? You're going to do all that.
Then let's think about like, what cosmetic things are we going to do in here? Are we going to shave our legs? Are we going to shave our armpits? Do we want to do any of that? Let's, you know, maybe we do our face in here. Maybe we brush our teeth in here.
We have to make all of those decisions. Then we have to stand there under this warm, amazing water and think about the fact we have to get out.
You might have to think about what time it is. You might have to answer a child.
You might have to think about, okay, now we have to psych ourselves up to get out of this warm. So then you have to make the decision to turn it off.
Then you have to make the decision to probably dry your hair or wrap your hair up. Then you get your other towel.
You have to dry your body. You have to get out of the shower, you have to contend with the sensory change, you have to decide, am I going to just stand here and look at my phone on the bed? Or you know, am I going to completely go do I want to get a brand new towel that's clean and dry? Or do I want to go with this damp one I have around my body, then you have to decide where to throw those towels, are they going to go on the floor? Are they going to go in the hamper? Do you have a hamper? You know, are you going to hang them back up to use them again? When is the last time you use that towel, by the way, is it ready to go in the hamper? Or can you put it back up on the thing? Okay, now you're naked.
Now what are you going to do? Are you going to put clothes on immediately? Is it the clothes you're going to go out in? Are you at that weird damp phase where maybe you don't want to quite put your clothes on, but you don't want to stand there naked. So maybe you go to your closet and you go get your clothes on and then you come back and then you have to decide.
I mean, like all of this is still like the act of showering and we haven't even put our clothes on or done our hair. And when you're already under stress, it's not just that first step you have to like psych yourself up for and consciously do.
You're having to put that much energy into every step.

You know, what's interesting is that I went for a walk this morning and I was going to take a shower. But when I got there, I started considering how much time and then I realized I hadn't fed the dogs yet.
And then I looked down at the floor and there was no bath mat there. And I thought, I don't want to get out of the shower and then put like, have it track water everywhere.
And then I looked at the towels and then I thought, I don't, well, if I could lay down a towel, but then I'm going to have to wash that towel. Cause then I'm not going to want to take a towel that I stepped on with my dirty ass feet around my body.
You're right. It's way more complicated.
And then you're thinking about the laundry that got piled up because you had the guests and everybody used the towels and oh, maybe you should actually go do the laundry, right? Like there's it's, and that's the attention shifting focus, right? So if any of that's impaired, you're just staring and you're paralyzed and you're frozen. Wow.
Showers are also boring. Like, can we just get real? Like I, I'm, I enjoy them when I'm in them.
Sure. But they're freaking boring.
You're, there's nothing to look at. There's nothing to listen to.
There's nothing to do, but think your own thoughts. And if you don't want to be doing that, that's another like hard part about the shower.
We haven't even touched whether you have any physical issues. Do you have pain in your body? Are you tired? Do you get lightheaded when you stand? Do you have, right, like any of that? Wow.
I hadn't even considered that. Another self-care kind of thing that a lot of people talked about was brushing their teeth.
It's the number one thing that comes up. The thing they are most ashamed to struggle with is brushing their teeth.
Really? Mm-hmm. You know, Casey, I would love for you to explain to us why that's what we are most ashamed of when we're not doing it.
I need to take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsors. But when we come back, let's take a compassionate look at why we have so much shame around not brushing our teeth in those moments when we feel too overwhelmed to do so.
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We're here with Casey Davis, the author of How to Keep House When You're Drowning. And Casey just revealed that the number one thing that people feel the most ashamed to admit when you're struggling is that things have gotten so bad, you're not even brushing your teeth.
Why do you think that is that they're ashamed of that? There's so much messaging around dirtiness and cleanliness when it comes to our body. To be dirty is to be gross, to be disgusting.
And when you're struggling with that, we don't talk about that a lot. So you're thinking you're the only one struggling with it.
You're the only gross one. And so you better not let anyone know how gross you are because who would love such a gross person? And so now we're not just dealing with maybe some executive functioning or some mood issues or some frustration or whatever it is to go brush your teeth.
We're dealing with the whole weight of what a piece of shit you are that you can't get enough together to be a basic human being. Do you even deserve clean teeth? I mean, it just gets real dark real fast.
Well, that's why I wanted to talk to you because, you know, the topic of shame and self-hatred or self-criticism is this big kind of heady topic. And I love your work because you're identifying the ways in which it creeps in an insidious way into the day-to-day aspects of our life.
And if you're living your life in a way where I think all of us are, you see a pile of laundry, there's evidence that you don't have your act together. You see a dirty, messy house, there's evidence that you don't have your act together and you better not invite friends over.
You see the fridge has sour milk in it like mine did this morning. It's evidence that you just can't get it done and you're never going to get it done.
And when you talk about the number one thing that people are ashamed about when it comes to not being able to really have yourself together, being brushing your teeth and the pounding that you give yourself for just not being able to do that, I will share with everybody because it's occurring to me. This is a way in which shame and judgment has crept into my life.
There are lots of mornings where I'm either running late or I'm too tired because, you know, I've got this electric toothbrush and you're supposed to do it for two minutes. And I don't feel like doing it for two minutes.

And then I have this other thing too, where I have a, this is probably getting to be too

much TMI everybody, but I'm just going there.

Okay.

I have a really weird, like a gag reflex.

It's like super triggery.

Like I can't brush my tongue, you guys.

Like I'm embarrassed to admit this.

Like what's wrong with me that it's like, and so then I never brush my teeth for the two minutes that you're supposed to. I always turn it off early.
I get bored while I'm doing it. And just recently, my dog chewed up the end of it.
I went for probably five days without a toothbrush. So what did I do? I swizzled the Listerine, and I'd pop a thing of gum in my mouth.
But then I felt bad all day. Like, there's something wrong with me.
Like, I've got carpeting on my teeth. No, I don't because I just chewed it off with a piece of gum.
I brush my teeth at best every other day. It's been a struggle since I had my second kid.
And this is the same with every other care task. When you begin to speak about it plainly and without shame like we're doing right now, maybe we feel a little shame, but we're saying it out loud.
It's important to remember that we're not just talking about breaking free from shame because it's a nice thing to do or because it's warm and fuzzy to feel nice about yourself. It is because research has shown that being sort of drowning in shame arrests your psychological functioning.
And that compassion and self-compassion actually increases your psychological functioning. So I don't just want you to step away from shame because, you know, rah, rah, you deserve it.
Although I do think that's true. I want you to have better functioning in your life, better quality of life.
And just from a practical standpoint, it is going to require we step out of shame. And a lot of us don't want to let go of shame because we feel as though beating ourselves up is the atonement that we can pay for not being good enough.
It's this weird way of trying to regain some sense of worthiness, because I may not be worthy, but I know that it's a good thing to hate bad things. So at least I hate myself.
At least that one part of me is worthy. I do feel a little dirty.
I'm going to admit it. I feel like there's something like it's some weird thing about me that, and now I'm realizing we probably traumatized my son because he literally

went years without brushing his teeth when he was little. He had yellow, fuzzy, carpeted teeth,

and he's got big choppers. And we teased him, dude, you can't go to school.
And so now I need

to clean that mess up. But I do feel like there's something dirty about not brushing your teeth.

Why do we feel this way? It's the same thing. We've moralized the ability to care for ourselves.
And the truth is, is that most of these things are pretty simple to fix or help. But you wouldn't know that if you were too afraid to speak to somebody plainly about it.
I mean, I see this a lot with postpartum mothers because you're used to, you wake up,

you go to your vanity, you're going outside.

The main motivation that I always had for brushing my teeth that kept me brushing my

teeth every day was I'm about to walk out the door and people are going to smell my

breath.

All of a sudden I had a kid.

I started working from home.

I don't leave my house every day.

That motivation went away.

Yet I had 30 years where that was the main motivation for brushing my teeth. And now I don't have it.
And I know what it's supposed to be. I know it's supposed to be, oh, I want my teeth to not fall out of my head and I want to be clean.
But that's such a far away thing. Whereas I was used to working with a motivation that was a very instant feedback.
I'm having to redo my whole neuropathway of how I think about teeth brushing. I don't go to

my sink the first thing in the morning because a baby's crying or a puppy's whining. Not to mention, for a lot of people, they felt so ashamed of this.
And when you give them permission to get curious about what is the barrier, they think and they think and they say something like, you know, the taste of mint burns my mouth. It's a really unpleasant sensation.
And then you go, okay, well, what if we use some strawberry toothpaste? And it's like, wait, what? Like years of avoiding this task and feeling bad about it and feeling ashamed about it and feeling this, that, and the other when, man, maybe the issue isn't, you know, you're a fuck up. Maybe the issue is you have a sensory sensitivity and you can just use some strawberry toothpaste.
Like what is a moral issue about having a sensitive gag reflex? I don't know. I just feel like I shouldn't.
It's the stupidest ways in which we beat ourselves up. Yeah.
Like you're allowed to be human. And you know what I thought when you said, oh, you could get strawberry toothpaste.
My immediate reaction, Casey, was, well, that's for kids. That's not like adult toothpaste.
And so now I'm not giving myself permission to make it work for me. I'm again, coming back to this, like, it's got to be a certain way.
You got to do it a certain way. And if you don't, you're dirty and you're this and something's wrong with you.
Yeah. That's my first thought when you were reading the thing about the showers.
My thought was, what's the point of a shower? To clean yourself. Okay.
So if the point is to be clean, and I would agree all of those people deserve to be clean and comfortable, is a shower the only way to get clean? That's a good point. No.
You could stand in front of the sink and wash your private parts in your armpits. Yeah.
You could wipe yourself down with a baby wipe. Yeah.
What if someone says, I don't like getting in the shower because I don't want to do my hair? Okay, well, what if you didn't do your hair? Yeah. Well, I hate the sensory sensitivity of being hot, cold, hot, cold.
Okay, well, do you have a little heater that you could turn on for 20 minutes before you got into the shower? Is there a podcast you love that could be a shower podcast? You're not as bored when you're in there. Is there like, there's all these things we can do if we get out of the shame aspect of it and just go, here's the thing.
I deserve to be clean, having a hard time getting in the shower. Is there some ways I can move around these barriers? Like not every barrier has to be gone through.
I love that. And by the way, I'll go in the shower with you.
So if you want somebody to talk to you while you're showering, you just take Mel Robbins right in there with you. You wrote in your book that your space should serve you.
What do you mean? So I think for a lot of us, you know, we look at those dishes and we look at the laundry, we feel so overwhelmed and we react in one of two ways. We either feel paralyzed at how much there is and do nothing and it builds up and builds up and builds up.
Or we go into that activated state and we just go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And we don't allow ourselves to sit.
We don't allow ourselves to rest. We don't allow ourselves to do anything less than perfect.
And because of those two things, we have a lot of people that are kind of running around like a chicken with their head cut off, kind of pinballing about their house, trying to get things done. And there's this exhaustion of it's not good enough.
And that's a reflection on me and how well I'm doing. And what I like to say is you do not exist to serve your house.
Your house exists to serve you. So yes, that's going to take some maintenance from us.
But it's your it's your house's job to serve you not your job to serve a house. What do you do if you're someone like me that truly prefers a house that is pulled together? Like my brain, when the counters are clear and the shoes are in the cubbies and the pillows have a karate chop, I can feel my brain go, so a house that serves me best is the one that really does look pulled together.
And yet there are times where I can't seem to pull it together. And maybe, Casey, it's because for my family, chores and picking up seem to be morally neutral.
They don't seem to be bothered by the mess. I'm the one that is like, like bothered by it because they walk right by the dog poop or the pile of laundry or the dead flowers in the vase or the, say, you know, the stuff and that not my husband so much.
Chris is pretty awesome, but the kids, absolutely. What do you do if you want your space to be calm and to be kind of clutter free? Because that's what does serve you on the rare occasions that it happens.
So there's a lot of ways to address that. And the first one I always like to say is I love to get curious with people about why that is relaxing to them, because there is a difference between I feel more at ease when my space is functional and when things are beautiful, I like to look at beautiful things versus when my house is put together right, I feel like I'm doing okay.

I can breathe. I feel like I've got it.
I've got myself together and therefore I am worthy.

So what you tell yourself when your house is clean will mirror what you tell yourself when

your house is messy. Because if you look around at your house put together and go, okay, see,

see, I'm a real adult. I've got it together.
I'm on top of things. Then when you have a week when it's messy, well, what must that mean? So, I like to kind of differentiate that there's a difference between a functional enjoyment of your space.
I like to know where my things are and get them. I like to walk into my kitchen and see a beautiful vase of flowers.
I like to not smell dog shit on the floor, right? Like those are functional enjoyments of your space. That's different than I, I, I can't rest unless it's perfect, but because it doesn't actually serve you.
If perfect makes you not have anxiety, that doesn't necessarily mean perfect serves you. Well, then let's go there.
Because as I was listening to you, I would divide my house into two spots, public and private. And so in the public spaces, because I work from home, like so many of us do, and there's a lot of people coming in and out, and a lot of people have busy households with kids and that kind of stuff.
I just find that I love beauty. I love the flowers.
I love the home being like, like a warm hug for people to walk into just in a few rooms. And I don't feel this moral obligation.
It's just I just feel an exhale and I don't feel like there's anything that I need to do to prepare anything for anybody to make them feel welcome and like things are waiting. In the private spaces, though, I beat myself up like the laundry room, the bathrooms, the my closet.

My closet has a stool in it where I currently have a Tetris game going with dirty laundry. Um, my favorite cleaning method is to close the door and then feel bad about it.
That there's a pile in there that's still waiting for me. Like there is that I'm, I, I, there I'm, I'm, it's not that I want a beautiful closet.
I feel like I can't get to the shit and there's something wrong with me. Well, it's important to remember that care tasks are not binary states of done or not done.
They are cycles. What does that mean? So what that means is that we're used to going, are the dishes done or are they not done? Is the laundry done or is it not done? That's true.
And the truth is your laundry exists in a cycle. It does.
You have clothes that are clean in the closet. You have clothes that are on your body.
You have clothes that are dirty on the floor. You have clothes that are dirty in the hamper.
You have clothes that are dirty waiting to go in the wash. You have some in the wash.
You have some there. You have some that are waiting.
Like that's a cycle. And every state of that cycle, Mel, is morally neutral.
You're not a good person when they're all parked in the closet and a bad person when they're in the hamper. It's okay for any of it to be in that cycle.
And you are not morally obligated to line up every care cycle in your home at the done state at the same time. If you could see me right now, as you're listening to this podcast, you on YouTube, my mouth is on the floor because KC Davis, you just changed my fucking life with that reframe.
Let me just give it back to you because I want you listening to really grab a hold of this. First of all, if you think about laundry, the machine has cycles that you can pick from.
And laundry, if you think about it like a never ending cycle, just a never ending cycle of things that go in the washer, things that go in the dryer, things that go back to the spots where they're going to go. Then they go back in the washer, then they go back in the dryer.
It's never a thing that gets done. It's always a cycle.
The same thing is true with grocery shopping. You don't get grocery shopping done.
You do it in a cycle. The same thing is true as tidying.
I mean, my playroom, my living room, it's not clean or dirty. It's clean, perfect, just cleaned it.
It's a few toys on the floor. It's a few toys and a few more on the floor.
And here's the key. In that cycle, there's a place where it reaches where it's not functional anymore.
And that's where I want to reset the cycle. Okay, but the key isn't how do I get everything done and keep it done and keep on top of it.
The key is how do I learn to turn all of these cycles at a pace where it's functional, where I can't where I have clean clothes, when I need them clean dishes when I need them. I always say like, when I decided to take on the laundry of my home,

I signed up to make sure that my family always has clean clothes. I did not sign up to make sure they never have dirty ones.
Oh, say that again. Same with the dishes.
Louder for the people in the back, Casey. Say that again.
I signed up to make sure that my family always has clean dishes to eat off of. I did not sign up to make sure they never have dirty ones.
And for the laundry, I signed up to make sure I have clean clothes and so do my families. I never signed up to make sure that there were never dirty clothes.
Oh my God. And you get to customize that cycle because if you're moving that cycle too fast, Mel, you're exhausted.

You're perfectionistic.

You're anxious.

You can't sit down.

You can't rest.

Or if you're struggling in such a way where you're not moving those cycles fast enough,

you don't have clean clothes.

You can't function in your space.

So you just want to get a pace that works for you.

And you can customize those cycles.

I don't fold my clothes. Because that was the part that was sticking the cycle.
How so? What did you figure out about yourself? Because it's interesting that you say that, Casey, because I could load a dishwasher full of dirty dishes all day long. I could load a washing machine and I love stain sticking that stuff and shoving it in there and like all the things and I can even move it to the dryer.
When the dryer beeps or the dishwasher is done,

I have some kind of a trauma response to that because I hate putting things away.

Hate it. Yeah.
It sucks. Yes.
Can I make a guess on why? Bring it on. Okay.
Well, I'll tell you what it is for me and we'll see what it is for you. The act of loading things, my brain naturally will do it in a pattern, right? Like if I'm loading up the dishwasher, it's like cups, cups, cups, cups, cups, plates, plates, plates, plates, plates, plates.
And I'm putting it all in, in this beautiful Tetris, whatever, right. Same with laundry.
It's going in, it's going in, it's going in, it's going in and I'm dump, dump, dump, dump shut. It's this pattern.
But when you have to put dishes away, it's pick up, look at it. Cup and cup goes over here.
This is a, okay. This is a, like there's the bending.
Nobody likes to bend over and over. And there's no pattern.
Your brain likes patterns.

It gets a little dopamine juice from it.

Oh, my God.

When I have to unload it, I avoid it like the plague.

I'm joking about the dog poop, but it's typically a cat hairball.

Somehow our cat will barf these hairballs up, and everybody walks by it like they didn't see it.

And I know they saw it because they come to me and go, Mom, the cat threw up. I'm like, and? Pick it up.
He's your cat too. I digress.
But on the occasions that I unload the dishwasher, I always organize them into groups on the counter because you're right. It's the patterning of it.
I fucking love you. That's one of the hacks is turning things into patterns, turning things into rituals.
So here's what happened to me with my laundry. I could get it in the washer.
I could get it in the dryer. And then what I would do is I would pull it out and it would sit in a pile, a clean pile in front of the dryer.
Same. And I would do this over and over and over.
And I would, everyone would walk over it. And when I wanted to dress me and my kids in the morning, I'd have to, you know, go through the pile and find something clean to wear.
And I was always kind of stressed about it. And there was this one day where I actually like, they miraculously were asleep at the same time.
And I was like, I'm going to go fold that laundry. And I'm sitting there and I'm folding the laundry and I'm just thinking about how much it sucks and how much I hate folding laundry.
And I looked down at myself all of a sudden and I'm folding like a fleece pajama onesie and I like slowed down and I like put it down and I looked around and I was like I had folded like underwear and like running shorts and tank tops that I never wear outside of the house and I was like none of this shit needs to be folded like why am I folding fleece pajamas and baby onesies that either don't wrinkle or like nobody gives a shit if they're wrinkled. When I really started to look around and think about it, there was such a small percentage of my wardrobe that needed to be folded or hung up.
And I hate folding. So I just started hanging it up.
So I have, you know, maybe 12 shirts that need to hang. Sure.
But everything else, what I did that day was I, first of all, I took all the clothes out of my kids' closets because I realized it was so stupid for me to be dressing three people and moving to three different locations to do that. I was like, this is silly.
I need to look at my main en suite closet, which was big and it was off the laundry room. And I just moved everyone's clothes in there.
So I could go to one place with my small children, undress everyone. So now all the dirty clothes are in one place, dress everyone because our clothes are there.
And I stopped folding them. I just got a bunch of baskets and I organized them.
So then when stuff comes out of the dryer, I literally sit on my butt and it's like, It's like I'm throwing cards. Like I just, it's like shorts, shorts, pants, shirts.
Like I just put them and they're all organized. And are they wrinkled? Yes.
But you know what? They were wrinkled before. But now they're organized and no one's walking over them and I'm not stressed and I can find what I'm looking for.
So by cutting out that step that doesn't actually bring value to me, it was just a thing I thought I was supposed to be doing. All of a sudden, that was it.
That was the hitch and the cycle that was like grinding the gear every time it got to that place. And now the laundry's done every week.
Wow. So you're better than me.
I'm just kidding. I'm not better than you.
That's the point. There's no better.
You just found a system. There is no better.
So I think you nailed it with the pattern. I want to talk about your concept that momentum is way more important than motivation when it comes to taking care of yourself or doing household chores.
Yeah. So if you're in a place where, you know, it feels as though the effort to get off the couch or off the chair or out of bed to do a care task feels just insurmountable, I want to think less about, oh, I'm not motivated.
I'm not motivated. I'm not motivated as though you have to get like excited about it and think more about creating momentum.

So sort of lowering the barrier to entry.

So I don't want to get up and go do my dishes,

but what if I just gave myself permission to stand up?

Or what if I gave myself permission

to go stand in the kitchen, but not do the dishes?

And I've done this and I'll stand in the kitchen

and I'll stand in the kitchen and look at TikTok for 30 minutes. And then I'll go, well, what if I just did one dish and I do just one? What if I just did two dishes? And sometimes I stop at two.
And that's awesome because now I have two clean dishes tomorrow. And sometimes I keep going.
So there's something about that. The other thing that I think is helpful, I talk about the five things tidying method, where anytime I pick up a room, I go in the same order, I get all the trash and throw it away.
I get all the dishes, I put them in the sink, I get all the laundry, I put it in a basket. And then I put away everything that has a place and I make a pile of things that don't have a place.
But the key to that for me is scheduling that at a time in my day where I will already be on my feet and already have my shoes on. So this is I wake up, I get my kids ready for school, I send them off to the bus.
When I walk back in my house, I'm up. There's some motivation I can capitalize on there.
I'm already standing. I've just done something.
So now I can do something for five minutes. And maybe I even set a timer to get over that hump in my brain that goes, oh, this is going to take so long.
Right. You capitalize on that.

But it can become part of the cycle or rhythm where you walk in the door, you take one room, do the trash, put dishes in the sink, make a pile of things that are not out of place. And what were the third, fourth, and fifth? It's trash, dishes, laundry, things that have a place and things that don't have a place.
I think I got it. And I want to repeat it back to be sure that I have it and to make it really simple for you listening.
Casey, you want us to clean up a room in the same way every single time because that will make sure we don't get overwhelmed. And just so that you and I always have the steps, here they are again.
First, you get the trash, you throw it out. Second, you get the dishes out of the room and into the sink or the dishwasher.
Third, you take the laundry and you put it in a basket. Four, you put things away that have a place in that room.
And five, make a pile of everything that does not have a place in that room you're standing in. And then voila, you're done.
Casey, I love that. And I can see how if you get into the rhythm of cleaning in that five steps every day in the room that you're in, rather than thinking about how you're going to do every single room, how it would make things less overwhelming.
Now, I just looked at the clock. Do you realize we've been talking for over an hour? And we've only just scratched the surface, Casey.
And I haven't even gotten to the pile of listener questions that we have for you. And so here's what I'm thinking.
Do you have another hour that you could spend with us, first of all, in order to go through all these questions? Sure. Okay, great.
So here's what I'd like to do. How about we end this episode right now? Yep.
How about we end the episode right now? Because if what Casey is saying is resonating with you as deeply as it is for me, I know you don't have two hours to spend on a podcast right now. So as your friend, we're gonna divide this into two conversations.
Part one, what you just listened to, and part two, what you're about to listen to. And the reason why I wanna do that is because I wanna make it easy for you.
That's how it rolls on the Mel Robbins podcast. So Casey, stand by.
We will start with listener questions in just a second. And you listening, please do me a favor.
Please share this episode with the people in your life that you love. Everybody struggles on some level with this topic and we're not talking about it enough.
And we all need Casey's genius hacks and her advice. And the fact is now that you've just spent an hour with us, you know how to help yourself.
And more importantly, when you share this episode, you can help somebody else who is silently struggling because they feel overwhelmed. And one more thing, I remind you and I all the time that whatever it is that you're going through, it's temporary.
But what I love so much about this conversation with KC is that we also have tools to help one another through these moments when they feel overwhelming, temporary or not. All right.
In case no one else tells you, I want to tell you, no matter how high the piles of laundry are or the dishes are stacked in your sink, I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to take control in small ways and not be so hard on yourself because you deserve that and you deserve more KC Davis. And that's why I'm going to talk to you in a few days.
I love you. Get ready, but this is literally the perfect day for me to talk to you because I have not showered.
I did manage to wash my face, which I am very, very proud of. Hello.
Good afternoon. How can I help? Oh my God, that's Siri.
To stay on top of everything that you have to do at your place. Laundry, dishes, place, home, house.
At your house. Okay, where you live? I can't find you.
Oh, I don't think I'm in the document you're in. I don't see her.
No, you're there. Oh, okay.
Hey, it's your friend Mel. Here comes the burp.
Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper.
This is the legal language. You know, what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.
This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.

I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist.
And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good.
I'll see you in the next episode. Hey, this is Will Arnett, host of Smartless.
Smartless is a podcast with myself and Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman, where each week one of us reveals a mystery guest of the other two. We dive deep with guests that you love, like Bill Hader, Selena Gomez, Jennifer Aniston, David Beckham, Kristen Stewart, and tons more.
So join us for a genuinely improvised and authentic conversation filled with laughter and newfound knowledge to feed the smartless mind. Listen to Smartless now on the SiriusXM app.
Download it today. Hey, what's up?

It's Wanda Sykes. I'm here to remind you about something super important, getting your breast screened.
Because trust me, your breast health should be a priority. Early detection for breast cancer can change the game, which is why you should visit yourattentionplease.com to learn more.
And do me a favor.

If you've already had a breast cancer screening, remind your friends and family to visit yourattentionplease.com too.